[PAGE 1]
SUDiECT: ilatters relating to CIA Project "Bluebird"

Those Present: H·B/1 E B/1 C uilod StaicsOK. LV. iN. A A Note: attended as a consultant to CIA. De to the illnoss o was to have reores B lso represented that agency. C

1. The Agenda:

lo formal agenda was prepared for the mectinz. It had previously been described as an informal get-together of representatives from the H-B-1 A to discuss the subject. At the meeting the inforal atmosphere prevailed end all matters related to the influence or control of the minds of individuals were discissed. These matters ranged fron the snecific subject of moans fer extracting information to tho broadest aspects of psychological warfare and propaganda.

2. Background:

CIA interest in the snccific subiccl of dediring, scientific metlods for controlling the minls ef individuals had nreviouisly beon indicated to ttho tgh his contacls withe, A formerlytas r After his denartue from Ci A and while with the. t has contiried theee discissions itiT.seea Further C U.S. interest in this mattor lhas been indicated to In addition, byn. C C-8 Msdiscussed the matter briefly withe C of the prior tc becoming associated with Cla in connection with the present project.

1 June 1951

[PAGE 2]
Sinceと mas visitinc in のtook CH.B/1 the opnortunity of gettinr: together ith reprocentatives of those agencies which had proviously indlicated an interest in the natler. Thus an invitation was extended to both the CIA and thè  amin the U.S. B

Dring tho meeting it became apparent thatot wasC specifically interested in:

a. Determining, what prottans of this nature, both research and operational, are going on in the U.s.

b. Deternining whether there is sufficient irmortanc? to the mat.ter to warrant limited attention by the Research HB/ Establishnont.

c. If the matter is important, cetermining the types of research prograns to be established in 1+-B11

d. "Converting" who aop rently had strong C reservations as to the value of projects of this nature.

e. Establishing a prorrem for future coordinated action on these matters by the .H-B-1

3. Discussions:

a. Discussion of programs of this nature in the U.S.

A (1) cmlained that because of A provious activities, CiA has an interest in an dovelonrerts along, this line which mirht be ussful to us. As far as prorrans in the U.S. are concerned, therc are many independent activities which are closely relatcd, but no over-all proran has been established to our knoledgc. T Prerreed that this was A the situation with respect to the B -also, and that. we vould be most interested in knowing their plans on the subject.

(2) As anticinated the rcpresontatives made re-/f -B/1 case. Ve exlained that this case was widely publicized and full reperts have been nublished in the nivspajers. Actually, as far as tho U.S. Covernnent is çoncerned had been offered thc facililics of thcr dan for his rohabilitation, but betansç of the attendant nublicity, no effort has becn nade to interrogate him. Ihis will udoubtodly continue to be the case becanse:

a. Complote infornation on tie subject is available in the newspapers and

b. His prominence prevents any direct aporoach.

-2.

[PAGE 3]
r (3). The  secmod content with this explanation A8/1 although sonerhat disapnointed. They cugnested:

a. Atteapts to fird out througl any pernanent personality changes have occurred in her husband.

b.Psychiatric consultation durirr his rehabilitation.
C Ath paychiatris isat tracticins psychiatrist and a suainted anazed that this is not part of treatnent and thatB-6 we are not exoloitin: the conortinity. I attributed this either tovacarefully timed orobe based on some actual infor-
C mation  . bossessed, orto a sugcostion made in all sin- C cerity."At any rate I thanked him for the suggestion).

b. Discussions on Importance of Project:

(1) These discussions wore complicatod by repeated and lengthy excursions into the broader asnects of esycholoy es if gertains of cntrol of groups or e ahscs rater than control H-B/1 tives were anxisus to stay on the subjact,r announced C at the outset that there was nothing now in the whole business fron what was praoticed during the inqiisition days and there was little hope cf achievine any profcund results through research. He was obviously much more interested in the broialer aspects of propaganda and political warfare narticularly as it apilics to penetration of conmunisn into trade unions, ntc., and means of blockiag, sich oenetration. At the close of the monling, however, was evidentlr impressed with thc idca and agreed as to its importanco fron a rcsearch standnoins. The others present had been convinced prior to the meeting and had little difficulty in reacuinr, a œmon understanding that this is a vital field in the defence of the Western Powers.

c. Prograns to be established inIB/1

(1) Thar representatives had cbyiously discussed /f -B/ severat prorrams which they were anxious to explore, once the value of the ressarch had been established. These prograns are:

a. Political Warfare.

Resoearch into the, psycroloical factors causing the hunan nind to accept certain colitical belicfs aimed at deterainint neans for comballing communtsn anl "selling" democracy. This prorra vas sucrcated by nt, a œnsulting nsychologist. While it is not directly related to the subject of pron ct "Slnebird", it follows the primary interest of and the strong fecling of thorepresentatives as to the importance of the broader aspects

-3-

[PAGE 4]
of the matter. Certain ospects tef the research will closely parallel "Bluebird" resoarch. It will be carrind out throuch varicis stalistical anl Chcoretical aooroaches resnlting in l:pothcses which can be published and thereby atoract thie corent of experts throughout the three co:ntries. Later on clinical research will be adopted to further test the hypotheses.

b. Control of the Indivichual Human lind.

Research into the means whereby an indivihal. may bo brought temporarily or porhaps permanently unden the vho is prepared to unlertake it imnediately shonld it be anoroved. "has had previous expericnce in this C tyne of researcli and exnects a rrant from the B ain the near future for experimentation with animals on'the factors which influenco behavior. While this grant will not permit human experimenba'ion he feels that such experimentation can bo. tied in. He proposes theoretical approaches - further developmont of hypotheses through research en animals - anil finally human experimentation in those areas found promising.

(2) It was indicated at the close of the meeting that both of thg projects will be written up for consideration by the and will probably be approved.A-B/,

d. "Conversion" ofC

(1) As ncted above had stron views on tlevalue C of the appronch to the "mass" or rro:p croblen but little sympathy with the "individual"problen. The proposal to establish the "political warfare"pro,iect (noted above) met with his enthusiastic approval. The second proiect intriqued him and after lengthy discussions he becane quite enthusiastic on chis also. d rrd arreod to put some of his scientists who have been working on both problems in touch with. the and it is believed -B-/ that ccordinated prograns vill result. #-B/

e. Further coordinated action in the three countries:

that this stage of the problem was obviously one of pure research and that the U.S. progrags conld beat be developed throurh the B us. in  during the lattor nart or ir week (June H-8/) ( 6-8), we afrced to brief non the cubject.

(2) As a basis for further action it was agreed that:

[PAGE 5]
a. A fellow-un mcetine of representatives Tren the H-B-1 soutdi be held in th ncar futnre, probably in washinrton during July, l9sl - exact dlate, tine and place to be detemmined b. andC .during their coming meeting.

H-B-/ b. will assemble all availacto infornation on individuals who have boon in tho hands of Soviet or Satellite interrorators. Tlis information to be exchanged and to he used for further contaet xith indivi:bals where necessary, tho "ltimnto use of tho data to be in asscmbling statistics for research.

C. The ororrans are relatively fira and willH B/, un:louotedly ro forward on the basis vutlincd above. As the U.S. prograis are doveloped under thrr they can be B tied in vhere they are of mutual intcrest.

4. Conclusions and Recomnendations:

a. The  represonlabives were fully acmainted with thol-B/) probler and were carefilly solected to provide a balance o scintific compotence to the discussions. , in garticular, inticated C a keen understanding of the "bilnebird" problea, ard was obviously interested in conducting resnarch prosrans in concction with it. With the backing ofb s shonld orovide a center C of irterost and acbivity vhich will be of tho ataost value in the testin: of various hyotheses as to,control of the huaan nin:l.

b. All present acreed that there has boen no cenclisive vidence, either froa reports on Soviet, activities or in Testern rescarci, to indicate lhal new or revotutionary prorress hns becn made in this ficld. The Soviet pattern is remarkably sinilar te the age-olr methods of interrogatien - with only minor refinemonts toward inducing cooperation. At tho sano time, f:ll invostigation of all Soviet cnses is essential and basic rescarch in tho field is most important becaice of the importance of this matter in connection with cold war operations. Even though no ra:lical discoveries are made, even snall gains in knowledge will justify the effort exnonded.

c.. ilo mention was made o: the operational intelligenco aspccts or the actuat ase of new discoveries by the "Testern Powers. The ains of the meetine vere pri narily toward defining areas of pure regcarch with no consideration of enyrinredliate operatlonal developments.

d. Tecaine ofr the above, I.s. interests can best be served by channelin our contacts through theee wtn. Tecaise of the close relationship betwcenand.t.this can be handled quite conveniontly and a clear senaration between the intclligence and the research aspocts can be established. It will

[PAGE 6]
be nccesaarv te brief easa on tine over-all aspects of the :ith intelligence of such typos as can be nsed in his prorai and exchanged vith the othercountries. This will be vorked out within the agency in the svze manner as is done in connection vrith othsr research problens.

In retur we can exoct  to cocperale fully br setting up ".3. research prugraas which will further the over-all. project. lle will. also servo. as an excellent channel for keeping us advised of developinents.H-B/

The existingprojects and any others sponsored by the B Intelligence Agencies are not a part of the research progran outlined above and need not be discussed, or their existonce indicated to the and the He wll thus have tro separate but ccnnatible research prorrans underway, one wnder B the control and coordinatien of thes and through that arency with the et The other will N-B// bc under the oontrol and coordination of Ctλ working :ith the other intelligence arencies. Should the need fer coordination with foreim intelligonce agencies develon, this will noccssarily be laid on through intelligonce channels radher than tha boone. B

H-B-1