[PAGE 1]
Report and Othor Interviowe, April 1255

l. Attoched hcrevith is the writer's rofort of his trip to tho a and sono other interviewo along rolatod lines. Delivery of roport to you was delayed for certain reasous bearing on security matters.

2. If you wish a copy of this report for your files let the writer know and copy will be sent at once. lowaver, it is requested that this original be roturnod after your study.

3. If you wish further developments of any information contained horoin, please inform the writer.

4. For your information, exploitation of the variousoffers has not beon implemented to date owing to dovelopment of other matters of which you are cognizant. In this conneotion the writer would lika to discuse guch posaible future exploitation with you at your convenienco.

12 July 1955

[PAGE 2]
CuT OF 2UP, 6-11 April 1955, to:

[PAGE 3]
Betweon 6 April and ll April 1955, the writer visited certain cleared contacto
at thot ( 7 and 8 April ); talked to (9 Apr11); B
talked to SO consultant at (10 April ); and talked C B

On the afternoon and in the evening of 6 April, the writer and A B hief, O0,Contact Office, diacussed the and the personalities scheduled for conferences the following day. and A the writer left a company car about 8:00 Al, 7 Aprll and arrived B at approximately 9:h5 AH. Shortly after errival, conferences began. At the first conference, in addition t A and the writer, there wore present CB of the and Following C.3 pre-arranged plans, the writer after givin security briefings, C outlined in géneral terms the ARTlCHOKE work and matters of related interost. This conference laated approximately two hours. After lunch, the same briefing was repoatod with the above-montioned group plus C former ano present. C Thi.s conference, includiug foneral questions, lasted alcut throe houra. Later that afternoon at the horo c and the CA writer continued the discussions for several additional hours.

GENERAL

[PAGE 4]
Cn 0 April, tetaon 2:0) al 11:00 ind the tritor vere de m A over the phyuical layout of thé an-β cluding detailed visita to thy ibraries, opcrating roons, laboratories, aniral coges, encincering cot-un, radio-active araas, ccmmnicatiens area, Ciles, cecurity systors, ete. At ll:co Al!, auether tneral. conferonce uns helrd vith -and the uriter prosont. Follcaing, lunch, tho C writer had sovral short inudividhual talks wi and At approzirately h:30 Fi id tho iriter lelt tho and roturrad te

During the tvo-day visit at Sthe writer vasable to introduce for diacusaion rany suhjects ef interest to AlTIcHoE, and other progrars of interost to us. fheve discusalons, uhile mostly gearral in nature, were at tiroa sufficiently pointed to obtain sooa tpecific answors or oplnions. Cot out bolow are staterents in aubatanco concerning various iters discusped:

agarticularly stated that this uas a very important chozical and perhaps with ctudy tho rest valuatle for our uso. lie, hinself, is deing nxperimntel work wiih it but stated at the prosenti tine the coutrol of the cherieal for our usa tes uot zot teen uorkog oet. lie acrres Uho chenical hao a very Mith potentlal. and ruch emporirentation As noeied. Fo has not uced it in paychletric cecc-vork.

lIRoIli (An ergot derivative  snd possiblo antaiot of LSD)

[PAGE 5]
RAUWOLF1A

Bothy considor this s very intereuting chemical. They doC not believe it would ba valuable by itsell for our use but feol that it would be axtrcmoly intorosting worked in conbination with other chemicals. C particulerly thinks it should be tried with Chlopromaaine and possibly also in combination with LSD.

BULDOCAPUTN

tatod that thore was interesting material in lejeng's book on thia chemical and he thought the poychogenic effects might to intoreuting although ho had not worked with it.

HERATRAN

It. was suggostod that Frenquil (the garra isomer of lieratran),l product, would perhaps be more effective and interosting than leratran. They suggested study also along; those lines.

DOLITRONE

statod that in his professional opinion, Dolitrone is highly
useful for its analgoslc effect. He stated thiat obviously thore was a
psychogonic effect fn uoo of the chemical but bocpute of the nature of his
work (ancstlesiology) ho had not worked with it exerlmrntally along e 4
theso llnea. Ilo alao indicated he felt that judging ty the sevoral hundrod
cases he had worked with, it might have an amesie offect
both stated that it was important and should receive much conoieration. A Fstatod the chemical slould be extremely valuable for the Agency and
cited this example: A group of his doctor-associates were rourhhousing in

[PAGE 6]
one of the lockar roors of a nearby country club and one doctor twi.sted hi.s
back and nock inach a way that he could not straighten up, every movemont brought him back to the d gave him C
being very painful.
10 ce. of bolitrone intraruscularly in the buttock and within minutes this
doctor was able to straighten up, move about , ovensring a golf club and Gaid he did not check out how long the condition laated
felt no pain.
but he knew it lastod at least several houre and he atated it was the firat felt that for people
time Dolitrono had been used intramiscularly.
who had to jump from parachutes and.in line of duty be subject to pain, broken legs, sprains, etc. and who had to porform an assigument in a given period of time, this might be an important discovery. The writer suggested that this could be worked out using an automatic injector device and said in hias opinlon it definitely could. He statod he would work on the problem and give it thought since he clearly recoguized its value to us. C reed that they woudl do some work in the future on the llo and psychogenic and amnesic effects of Dolitrore.

HESCALIRE

Advised using Nescaline in combination with otlhier chemicals. C
He atated it should te tried with Rauwolfia and lSD. lle said he had dong
no experiments nlong these lines but thought it might be important. 务
XFUOn (a gas) C Anew of this rare gas and knew that it had been Both acnitted that it was a powerful anesthetic fas
atudied in the U.S.S.R.
but felt its expense and way of administration might preclude our uso of it.

[PAGE 7]
eaid he would give.the. matter sorn consideration aid would also dis- C

cuss the protlom with  (not yet cloared).

TERTIARY AMIL ALGOMOL

The writer asked Mf they were famillar with it and said he didn't think it was worth onything and was qulte faniliar with it. He stated a compound known as "Hi2" put out by Parke-Davis was far superior.. (The writer ray have miounderatood the term "HY2" but since it is contemplated further work with these men this natter will be. taken up at that time.).

PIFRADROL

Term mentioned but no corments made. Apparently this corpound may be experimental and hence not yet used clinically.

SEIATONDN

Both doctors were familiar with Seratonin and particularly des- C
cribed it as very intoresting but he had not done any work with the material. stated 'that he would examine what he had on Scratonin and that at, C
some future date the matter should be taken up witl: him again. lle stated
obviously it was of great interost but he did not foel at the present time
it was worthhile. for him to corrent upon its applications and results. t

stated it was no good fron his porsonal knowledge.

[PAGE 8]
C Both made refercnce to DFPF by initials. Since the discussions at times vere highly technical between varlous individuals present nnd since tine vas linited, the uriter could not trace out all thoce various chenicals mentioned. Later oti the writer-asked waht DFrF was and its uso and C reforred the writer to the 1955 Edition of GOODMAN AND UILMAN, page 450.

Both and erwere quite familiar from a clinical C point of view with Cocaine and its derivatives. Magreod that C work could be profitably done in this field.

GHATAIIIC ACI AIID REIATED SUBSTNICES

tated he was familiar with this and realized that it would have psychogenic offect but did not corrent at length on it.

Both hand Kagree that Alcohol, particularly in C whisky, wine, ete. was highly important to any operntions of an Agency of our type. lhey surgested that practically everything mentioncd should I be worked in combination with Alcohol and that thcywould thomsclves try combinations witli it and would examine possible chomicals that would work as potontiators for the effects of alcohol.

ACTH, COETISONE

[PAGE 9]
ACTH, CORTISODE

Both and commented that thaee peculiar compounds ofton had interesting paychogenic effects. They stated that they had not studied it but doubted it would have much use for us. This waa apparently based on thn unusunl. sido effecto whicl probably would not be useful and might definitely be dangerous,

CILORAL

stated he thought that Chloral llydirate was not good andC in his use had never been successful. However, ho did not prcclude work with it but did not like the substance.

DORUNSON

both stated this was no good.C

ANITIHISTAIIIC DRUGS

一 Both doctors recognized that these drugs would produce psychogenic effects but offered no comnt.

FULGUS TORHS - MUGROCIS

Ouc conference hadl hardly started beforç abked the writer C if hc were interosted in poisonous mushroons. fhe writer informed jwo vere studying then now. urged à vcry careful C study be made of this and also of the literaturo as it appcared that toxic mushroons vere used as intoxicants in thc Soviet Union. He felt it was somothing that had not be exploited and suggested study as to the eflects prodiced by thesceguentSeer"

[PAGE 10]
ASPTRIN

Both doctors agrecd that the aspirin tablet waa a simple way of adminiatration and possibly aspirin combined with other chemicals might produce interesting results. Hey had done no work along these lincs hut adrittod that pills could be rado to reoomble aspirintabloto and this was indoed a very common pill.

TARIJUAIA

Intoresting but did not appear to be good from our point of view. oubted its value as a talk producor particularly sincc control C would be difflcult.sucgeated experimantation with this combined with somo othcr clementa,

BARBITURATES

Doctora and Fare, of course, famillar vith all types of C barbiturates. has used Barbiturates in psychiatry to a Great ax- C tent. Voe of Barbiturates, of course, as an anosthetic is standard and has made trenendous contributions in the field of Barbiturates, particularly his introduction of sodium pentothal. The writer asked both men if they woro familiar with any new chemicals in thls field with wusual and otrange results. The writer was inforned there were no porticularly ney barbituratos currently beiy; studied and sny now inforrntion aloug these linos in the future would be transritted to tho writer. apreed with tho writor in tho use of cortain barbi- C turates.coupled with certain stimulants in narco-interviows as being effectivo. lle has had considerable experience along this line.

[PAGE 11]
IORMTE

Again both doctors were well acquainted with liorphine and succosted that further exploration could be nade in using Norphine in combination with such clorents as scopolamino and others. (io special. suggestions made.)

HARIUHE,TARFALINE

The doctors were faniliar with the nane but had not worked with this chemicol.

COPBINATICIS

Tstated that he felt that special attention ahould be C dovoted to the use of Serpesil (Rauvolfia) with the relatively new chemical Ghlorpromazine, He stated he had not as yot experingnted in this comnection but felt it might be valuablc. lle callerl attontion to an CURRENT ISSUG editoral in the ANNIALS OF IHTERUIAL, HEDICINE, an article on psychogenic drugs. He suggosted it would be of interest.

atatod that at phore vas a pharra- C colorist or chenist whose name he could. not romerber who was specializing in studyinf, analoga of ISv, and had, deyeloped woll over 100 of thece analogs. lle suggested this nan bo clenred and intervieved.

[PAGE 12]
STatedy was a hrilliant gadget ren but poosibly hord to coutrol. C lle stated that leveloped the mstated C he thought something could be done with the insortion of a plastic needle into a person's veins that would be an ideal type of lothal weapon for self-destruction. The writer did not dovelop this idaa since entro te is aesured in the futture -and this field, while ofC interest, is not particulnrly pertinent. 1

ADRFHOCTROIE

Mhe writer mentioned Adrenochrome and relatod subotanceo as possibly poycho(onic agents. agreed that they were possibly C of intorest but stated he was not exactly certain how this could be usod.

IPHOSIS

The writer introduced the mubject of Hlypmosis and explained in general terms our interest in it and our work with it. of C course, was faniliar with hypno-analysis but is not using the technique apparently at the present time. Ho has not tried using: any of the new chonicals as a trigger for llypnosis and to his kiowlodge no one has tried obtainine hypuosis in the gemi-cona poriod following shocktherapy. lle agrood very little wos knowm about the actual ultimate ends that were possibly obtainable throyh hupnogis. lie atated that 1t ccrtainly doservod iatense experimntation and thought experirents could te dosirned to establiah how far an individual could be puahed under hypnosis.

[PAGE 13]
stated that tle Swedos have a way of plaelng oxyçen via C a tube into the mother'a stomach to sssist in childbirth. lle stated exyron is putped into the mobher's atomech throvgh a tube and insteed of having; a blna buhy at birth, apparently a pink bady rosults. Ois has been used succcssfully. lie sugcsted we give sone Wiought to placing gas into a subject's stomach as a possible way to produce talk. lle said different gases could be induced into the stomach thirough a tube and aisorbed from the storach inte the body. He andaaid C this could be easily accorplished with an wnconscious subjoct,

ELFCTROIIC DEVICES, ELECTRORIARCOSIS

All porsone thiat were talked to or ret ot thodatatod that B the stated they bullt their om devices if deviccewere not available on the B market and at tho they had nwmrous devices that were entirely unique. llost of thcse dovices would be too complex, too clumsy or require too much attention to serve a useful purpose in our work. C Bated hc was quite ferdliar with elcctronarcosis and gtated it was clumsy nnd painful and felt it would not be usoful. to us.

It should to noted that the group talked to stated that they would be rlad to dosign and brild apparatus for us if ouch voro required or that they would thensolves atterpt to tevelop apporatus or devices that arosr Irom their thinkin, along, lines mentioned heretofore.

MUSUAL, RFSULTS

Dhe writer gbated vo vere oxtreraly interested in any musual

SrOTACH TUBPS

[PAGE 14]
regults of new chericrls or sirane rosults that arose from use of neu chenicals, enrpounds ef,chemicals, electronic devices, UHF sound, etc. All individuals talked to stated thoy were well-aware theae thinga occurrod but at the hcy ero usually quickly elininated since thoy would not be in the test interosts of the patients. They said they would have to think thiis problem over before appropriate answors could be made.

DFTARYTEFICUICTES

the inriter introduced Whe patter of dletary deficiences as a
pessiblc weapon. The uriter pointed out a standard Soviet or Corunist
techniquo in Lrainuashing or in prisoner-handling appcara to to a barcly life
sustainin, food ration. Dhe triter asked the indivituals le talked to to
consider this probler and uhether they thcudht it right be posoible to
manufacture food which to all outuard apnearances would lcok and tagto
normal but would, in fact, be specially prepared (vital elerents removed)
aud would create confusion, anxicty, fear,  cte. in a prisoncr or peihaps
lower mottel rosistance, increase suchestibility or affoct, the memory.
All doctora talked to felt this was too corplex anrl in their oninion it would be ruch casier to add sorething; to the foed fer thesc purpose than
eroate nou foors. ungested that be consulted C L in thic matter. le ctated that ok: on diet D deficieney uould bo of irtarest to ua. It should bo noted that It should bo noted that ratired specialiat on D retired speciallat on D

internal rodicine and authority on enotions and su:gestions and their

[PAGE 15]
on the dicostive systen ls available at Afor consultetion but he is not clcared and was not talked to although it appears that ho might be valuable in thiis.connection. Ais also interoesting in that) ho had done a greot deal of work on pain and its effects.

POTEITIATTSG GEHLALO, GRRERAL

Patentiating chemiçals, the vriter pointed out are interesting to us. All doctors agreed that this lield should be explored. They have nothing to offer of particular interest at the present time and said it would have to be Civen thought.

WIAHINE SULFATE

sugrested that consideration be given toC our use of wyamine Sulfnte producnd by Wyeth Gorporation, Philadelphia, Fennoylvania. lhis chonicals has about the same offect as Lenzedrino only it is stronger and nore effective. They sugrest persons in our work under intense pressure and sufforing from strain or hangovar miglit find this. preparation useful. They stated, however, it was probably woll known to us.

BRAHNASHTNO

For (uneral purposes, the writer introhced the subjoet of Brainwashin. All individunls tnlked to expresned ront interest in the natter but felt that tiinir thoughts were not solified enough to advance any ideas in this. connection. Ihey could sug:est no tochniques or subtle chemdcal treatments that might have produced this phenomcna but st

[PAGE 16]
Birned that wo clar and contacthoco

UWITTTG OR ULILIING CUEJECTS

lhe writer discussed at lencth the problem of tho unwitting and evon the violeutly uuriliing: gubject and asked for scme opinions or aucrcstions as to how such subjocta could be brought into a controlled situatlon. Ti:io problen, according to all interviowed, required considcrable thought. Closely related to tho above was the problem of what could be dono to a person who was aslaep without disturbing and without lcaving telltale marks on the person or leaving a hangover. The angwers were again the saro but showad the writer a very small C sised entirely portablo rachino for adninistoring gas wich had possihle voo in these cases. This srall highly portable dtevice hal containgers of various gases in little cylinlers sinilar to thoao veed in tho sparkict soda bottlos. aurrccted that thls nachine goered extremely valuablo C for our study (sce literature attached). As far as is lnown, Lhis mnechine has not yot been marketed and tho writer is of the opinion thahad C the first two machines in his office for study Also pointed out C that as a first-àid dovice or an oxygen devlce when working, with

D

they were not inforred in the matter except, Lirourh the publie press.

[PAGE 17]
barhituratos this tevico hed crent rorit pirticalorly under field conli.tions.

FSICHOUOITCAL RA-IUASSTENT

The triter asked various contacts at tlo ter Jed rade B
any studies of paycholopical harrassment of any type. lhe answer was
negative. Tho writer asked if any work had been done on such thinfs
as unusually painted rooms or alightly out-of-proportion rooms, rubber
rooms, vibrations, amells, cte. The ansuer a'ain wes neretive. This, based on
obviously, opjcared to be/the fact that the hs for assisting B
human beings ttho are ill mnd not for reuearch into psychiological problems.

LODOTOITS, ETC,

In the diacussion concerning lobouorties, it vas ascertained that . the ncurosurgeons performad lobotomics of various types as a B matter of coursc, They were not particularly irprosocd by the use of lobotomics for our work based primarily on the fact thiat it wao clumsy, dangerous, required expert qurgery with not too predictablo results. They were aware of the term cherical lobotory but apparently felt that this wes not stitable. They kew of brain surgery perfomol by UlF sound but since this required apeining the alatll. they thou ht this alao wes not feasible. (Sco

WDICILA!. P)AT3

covered or worked with any "umusual" medicinal plants or had studied the eff

[PAGE 18]
effeet of "mmugual" planta upon hurrns, In this commection, it io interesting to note that again brought up thc subject of mushrooms, particularly tho toxic variety stated he was studying mudhroons C in a general sense andl had noticcd ceverel. articles in the literaturo describing, We uso of mchroens as an iutoxicont, particularls arong primitive Siberian tribes. lle thought this xas very iaportant ond folt a study should be made. le suggested that parhape mshrooms wich were toxic possibly used at dimmer if vorkod in corbin: tion with LSD or .roacaline ri hit prorhce umusual rosults. Details notf dnvelopod.

TOTAL 1SJ1Af1:5

Perhapa the Fost interesting discussion of the entire trip occurred
diring, ooe of the conferences, fwithout any provious roference, C
asked the uriter if he wore femiliar with the work of Dr. IlFBB in Canada. The writer stated ho was fardliar with lEEB's work. then asked C did the writer noto the significance of Dr. HEbü'a work from an intelli-
.gence point of viow. The writer replied that the mattor vas kowm and we: vcrc exanining it and studying it ns best ae conld. lhe writer aske! r he had done any work along these lines wnd he replied he had C not but had read all available litoroture alorg, thcse lines and wanted to do soro experirentation if he coukd moko soro arraareronts. atatod Dr. lE. l’'a uork tas quite well knom aui stated te effect on aninlo was elso [airly well deseribod in tie literature. thenC staled that this ficld shculd definitely lo exploitot. lie stitod it sas of extrcix importance and that it night be a very important intelligonce weapon. le urged that worked be done in this commection and the isolation techniquos be used in conbination with che-icals sucl as iSD, mes-

[PAGE 19]
caline, FauJolfia, cte. The stiter diecusoed the isolation problen in vary gencral terma with, and particularly asked them to give C considcration to ways and mcans to which the isolation technique could be brought to. beor on willing or more imortat unwilling or even
violently-objectin: subjects. afated tiat the problen appeared C inportance
to him of tremendous/and he certainly intanded to give tiis matter considorable thought. rged complote studies of experimentation and C resoarch in this field a numter of tires during the conversations in the sevcral conferenccs the writer had with him.

POLYCATH

Tho writer in 'very general terms discussed the polygraph and sone of thic uscs rade of it. Vheroas rost of the docters prosont had heard of the doviee, none of them had had a chanco to see it in actual work although ad worked with in connection with C the original development of it. In reoponse to exact questions concerning neasurinf, dovices which would be of vse to the Folygraph lranch, the writer was inforned that there were on tho staff uf the several B individuals whose ntencs will te montioned lator uho lad done very .ad-. vanced work in tho inventing; of aud developent of sensitive reasuring davices for bloed pressure, skin radiation, ele. (ne doctor is supposed to have ovoloped minorous pleythysmogrmphs,ad related reacuring; devices whtich sre capable of adaption to the goasurenent of decrcaued or ineroased blood pressure or bloed flow at many points in the body. This discussion was not developed because the spccialists referred to wore not cleared and it was felt that exploration along this line cculd zait for

[PAGE 20]
KHAIASTS OR HEN AIFSTRETIC GASIS

rstated at the present tise thuore vere no nev irhalants C or roscs he felt wculd be of intorcst t, uo. lle iointed out that rodern surgical techniqpes of anestlesiologists reuire coplex lospital-type equipmont and all modern operating roomo are extensively equipped but that this tyre of equipment could certainly not be transported into any crudo area or used under Cield conditions..

DTIES, JLRRS, STASOEES, COATROLIED FHOCTICN OF

Since the writer and fhad agreed that the pro-A
ductinu of ony of the ahove phenomena would be of considorable interest
if they could bn coutrolled, the qcsticn vas put to the doctora Lnter
viowed, While they regarded the problen as very interosting, no answers
were obtainable. Surgested that C should be cleared and interviewod.P Xstated thap had for mony yoars studied and done CÀ
research in umusual tyrca of psycholorical phctómna and he probatly
would have a considerable arount of raterial aloug thcso lincs. 7

TOXJCOLUY

The wrlter ascertainod that the doca not have a toxi- B cologist as such tut they do have chenists and pharmacologist; on thoir staff who have done toxicological work and their services would be made available at any timo a toxicological gtudy was required.

these clonrancng.

[PAGE 21]
The matter of the controlled prodhuction of headachoo, oaraches or various pains was discusscd with the eloarod contacts at tho Thoy agrend that crrtain pains and acbos could bo produced by chemicals but the controllin, of bheuc as to length of tire of tho altack ad timo bofore the onset of the attack zould bo difficvlt. The protlcn of tou to produce a speclfie illness or pain that would develop several hours after the riving. of a chonical was discussed but nol irmediate idcas were proposed in this connection.

"AUTONATIC AUESIIUTIC PACHINE" (DICKFORD and FAULCOHER)

This topic was introduced for discussion bul since the machine wes deacribed as extroroly complex, cunbersome and utterly useless under our circurstances the rntter waa not, nressetl.

ITCRODISCHARGE DEVECES

In vicw of the failure of the hypospray to be of particular value to uo, the Subject of Hicro-Dischatge doviccs for injection ef pouorful neu aronts wss introduced. ated he kucw of the C poncil injoctor-typo of device btb steteil as far as he lanev no one lad bailt any of thooo devices on a very scall scale. lle agreed, houever, that uith ouR krowlede ot grUl hiypodermie nnedles and injector Y mochanisns quch a dovice could be luilt. tated this typo of C device would be offective for lothel urpores. llo st te:l b:is tipe of device could be built in small sizes that could definitcly penctrate hoavy clothin, including leather jackets, etc.

FAIn-rRODUCPIG A.T.tS

[PAGE 22]
The writer tant futo sone discussion about thie problor of a controlled amneaia and its value. The writer explained that our experinents irdicated that ccrtain chenicals,'ypnosis a d other thincs produced aracsia but theco urre not c. ntolied, were net :nneraLly total and thiat under to circumstoncos wvould ve guarantee amesia in ay type of work. Dhe doctors diacussud the matter and agreed thit ccntollod amesia or total arnesia was not obtainable except possibly through suror which thcy ruled out. lhey also felt that electroshock or chemicallyinduced shock, whiile they wouidenerally produce ancsla for the actual ghock operation, would not produce annesia for periods procoding tho adninistration of the shock. They indicated there wag some amnesia produced for considerable periods following the shock but this certainly. uas not, controlled and would be enotty.

Stated he felt if he vere giveu the problem he would try C to produce an ancsia through the use of a sories of differentiy-acting psychogenic chemicals or chcmicals that act upon diffarent areas of the braiņ. lle stated ho thcurht that, by switching the cenicals back and forth both prior to the interrugation, duri:n the interrogation and fellowiug the inlerrorntion it ripht be possible to prodice a forn of armesia. llo ststod that cortainly a subjcct who had uniergone varioua types of reactions to ccrtuln puycho;enic chhnicals and had been interro,ated alonu: tith thone varioug chomicrls would be extronely confuaed, protebly dllsori:nbed and wuld not haw sufficiont rental capacity to differentiate bntween fact and fancy.

ATDESIA

[PAGE 23]
By a extrorely unugual co-incidence, of Sundoš, (the mamufacturers of LSD) and the Sandoz representative B
wero visitiry; thow Wfor business roasons during the two-day period the urite uoo prese it, of particuler in crest vas the fact that had aupointments with both Eccauce of C thie, and because of Uhe extremoly favorable attitude of and C Athe writeré requosted What he questioned concorning LSD 8/6 and ccrtain othor related matters. These convorsations, rotuced to the simpleot termo, reflect that would rive toy and any amount of 1AD required for experirental research and that Sandoz waa still extroroly interosted in the material and was still producinu srme. As to the interests of tho USOR in LSU, it caro out in a. conversntlon tctweri hnd end one af assistants that felt that the USsn was not vorking with LsU apparantly vere not at all intorogted in the drug. stated he based Wiis on the Lact that 816 several ycars ago he attended an interhaticnal conference, apparently in-Faris, and at this couferonco there were prosont a numbor of Soviet scieutiats and sorchow or cther the subject af crgot and its derivatives wag lrought np. Üho Coviet.scientists orplalned that they wanted no part of ergot; they had spent a good dool of Lire cad effort starping out the rugts that atfrclerl Uhe raiu in thd Soviet Unlen (orgot dorives from a iust. and they had no irterect in tho chenical, (L5b). Apnrently felt rnl wes satisfied that Cbls vas indicative of thoir attitude and interest. also inforred chat hie was going to
0 the west Coast in tho next few dhys to at endl a "est Coast Federation

[PAGE 24]
rectlor et San Trorclsee. félao atatel ho Is roing to to at B/6 Atlantic City; lcw Jorzey, to attend the Am:iican loychiatrleConvention fron 9-13 lay 1355. It should also be noted thata Cintends to C attend tis ceae tion aud Aether, for rettor of record Aa, te. at oel the caavetdien cel Is dhairra ef ene of the

B/ B/6

Of porticular Intcrest sro tho folloving statements Witch aropo fron corversatlons letzocn Uhe writer a.d meaers C woro basad on hia cr vious and his converaations vith C stated tat. raas intcrestod in the uso of Chlorpronaziie as an antagonist to lSl. Furtlor Sandoz had net tried corbination effects with ISD but they do intond to try. In addition, Sandoz is working on Geratenin, Leralenia is deseriteí as sppareatly en anta: enist to L2 of tho peripherol nerves.

Uf partlcuiar intoroat to tho wriler was that mado thie atatonont thrt LD in a hiran bedy aflor ad-lniatration is concontrated in the liter to tie extent of 20 cnd looo thar ls is found in tho brnin aidt thib diaa mears cxtinrely rapidly.

Alae ef extrero Irortanb vas the fact Lel. Sarle the crrhatie C
gbater ent tint h ls atable nnd can te naod ir aerécels, in dusts and
cai to at inistared throudi lie adn. Ter deter of record, Ue wrilar
treudt tlis up cet ral ties to cvko éertpin e bad toard C
stato ente cerrcebly. de riber, hevevr, tela pon-eeltdeal, did uel C
develop Mis ner preso for explantions nor did ho requcstepr C to covelop this thern with It should be recalled that B ns well as ctlera coutacted aoaured the writer they will atterpt

[PAGE 25]
to aisuct qostlens rut. to then tn te fatare sut a! Inlicated A his ullinpcsu to cenvey any questions of this type to lhese individuals for specific ansuere.

mhiic ko taleing uith atated a' prordnent C-B/C firure in Hollyseod shose nane vis net tetiened (and atoì he C did not nsk) had wnitten to candoz end osked for n patity of lS, sbating ho va wanted to uge it at a party. Latated Sandoz was shocked at thia β/6 and turned it dovai but subsoquently lenrned this snre person in liollywood had obtalned Jo and nlso iescaline (sourceu ininow) and hiad used toth in sen sort of puneh at a party tud the peychotie eftects end results were violont onul terrible.

Hor.: The writor folt that he could uot prnso this say further ner eskato go back and attenpt to oltain further B/6inu ren  tireteled

he taa cnrious ce to the effecte trt who bad the party an! would try to pup this inforration cut of BIiClen at Atlenste City 1n Bay.

liorl: Jt shculd bn recalled thot hlous iuxley reeently wrute abock en the offecta of .cscaline aui is knouleircable sheal H) anl as for ac to ariter laoao io liviig iu Eollyvoud, Galiforaia.

fhe uritee cousicorel te jico of yoain; cn s decter at 1. e Intarvieata viut abanloned B the idea in vieu of the toct thiet rinht rosaitly be-136 come suapicious if too sharp questious wero asked concorning LSD. was described by both and C a perfectl aicuro st gud intelli, ent, sciertist.

[PAGE 26]
"aiter doctor d ubtod ie totives er La orreticn.

HITOSTEAY

The triter ested tle doctere (rarticularly if they had C rade uce of "yeceray devicos. The dectrce rere fariliar udith the devico lat e parently no use was being rede of lt at tho B fstated ha did not liko it prirarily becausc it produced bruises C and vounds cd he felt for his work thet otkar paas ef ad-iniatration were roro euitahle end nere adaptsble. dey lzc el ne new hypoepray deviens and cottainly vere not desigung er dryeloping mny thonselves. hapointed out that a liypospray could not safely bo usod through C clotiing or leathcr. They vere not fanlliar wit 7 werk ab Lha Asub-lethal shoto uf cjanido by B a "new" hepounray as a ; rlsoner-centrol device.).

MERVE. GA51S

T.e doctoro at thn were famlliar with the various nerve B gases but much eleronto, wiiich havo no roal cllnicàl nee aind aro highly dater us, are not hoollel et the ihe deters adr itiedB tipl, throe "cces er cecco wlic cculd nttack tho terves in gub-lethal dosns vero taterertie lnt no cu.qestians vqe offeredl

Die uritor evnlelned our goneral theorctclal interost in Uho production of convulsions as a dirçct voa;on or poesibly the uso of th:o corn perind folloting the convulsion as a mrars of outaining hypnosis.

[PAGE 27]
The writer alse discuosed flickering lights or intorrupted sound as a tathod for sotting off a convulsion in a chemically-conditioned subject. The doctors, while familiar with convulsions and shock therapy were unnble to offer srecific suggostions althourh they agresd the iueas wore interesting. They suffested the following;:

a). Armonium Chlorido Ammonium Chloride intravenously wlll produce convulsions.

b) Pyradoxin deficiencies will ceuso convulsions.

e) Triazol (an analog of lotrazol) is a convulaaut. Knon as Trizol in Gerruny in 1938 and 1939.

d) biberal, a barbiturate of the kli Lilly Company is a convulsant.
d). Nagnesium Sulfate intramuscularly will cause convulsions.

MG, CGUCICOT AFTS, DOT EIECTROEEO

The dakes extonaive use of ¿EU and Corticograpi equipment. B In perticularAf brain wave studies are made in.epilepsy and in shock therapy. They stated they vere about to receive a new type of EDG machine which automatically registerfs in 16 positicns. both and and separately stated that Efl and Cortico- C graphic studies wonld be very usoful in testing new drugs in connection piychegaalc with Lheir apeihoanle effect. (Note: Tis, otatemont has beon made Lime aud again to the writer. See report ou fellouing.)

Along these li:cs, tand othors conrented that the new C deeply inserted elcctrode techniques should be of imense value. Animal teats using thoae tochniques are now being widely used and

[PAGE 28]
resalta are rest Iniergbin: ad hiphly indiertive. Colt thiat C through Wheso tests mmch new raterial on brab fuuction would bo developed.

The sntter dlscusged the noe of anircla rnd aniral egcrizentaMon in testing end reseorch on paychocenic A choricals. Thetin B the hand at a special area several miloo outside ef operates extensive cxpurirrntal aniral colenios theso include many Uhevorands of aniralo of rany tyres iucluding, stanlard colonics of rice, rats, rablita, pigs,. dogs, cnts, etc. lat only a fow (0 or l0) sonkeys. Pese animala are primarily hcld for testing dircctly in connoction vitl special clinical cases but pure roscarch is continuously hein conhuctnd et all ti-es with the anirals. ühe writer was iuforred that vo kuld bo cled to carry out anirai enerirentation usinc B thoir znirals if this were escontial to sore future vork. (Ihis offer was not doveleped pondin: futuro sturdy.)

Tstated that as far as he knew the bost nonkey celony in C
the.li.6. as at the , nnder the B
Elrbathořshié directorship of statod thale DC tas essociaLod aid this D
work end bolh vere excellont ren. le stated that Le ronkey colony at
tha urered aluaya Lctsmen 90 and 10 neuteya.
felt that both bco-operate xith AA
us any time they vero epproachod. Sknw of no work at CB
with "valtzing rice" or with the Gibbon hut expros:ed interest in
studies with the Gibbon althouph arritting he knou little of the type. Fron ceveral conversaticns it ape cared oivious tirt. the

[PAGE 29]
would be intcrested in the dbbon but Implerontation of Lhis idea was not developed.

All pcrsonnel interviewed at the very emphatically stated to the writer thatt a privatg and that experimental work could not be atte: pted with Wheir patients except where it could be shown thet it definitely vorked for the patients good. They made it very cloar that their work was to help those that were ill ant pointod cut that their spocialties wero all alred in that dircction. Thoy said, however, specifically that this did not, exenpt them from studying the eflects of the new drugsjdeterrining posoible . uses of new drugs, designing inatrurents or from working to help Whie U.S. Government in any way they could. They stated their tioughts wouldl have to be roarranred to ment the challenre af the various ideas the writer had expressed to thom and that certain nechanisms could bo set up along these lines ani certain individuala should te cloared. (see following)

EIE:TTSIS A:D DOUPORS AECCEOLDSD FOR CL.AOASULS

talonts could Le exploited. A1l of these indlivirualu are described as loyal and patriotic Amorican cltizens and wlo, in tho opinion of the doctor'o present, would bo willing to help and could rake substantial contribations te zaricus flelds of endeavor pich they felt the Agoncy

[PAGE 31]
As ueted olevr, tho visit to llin uãa, in te opinion B of tho vriter, very proritallo, not co mmch for ihe Teet that the writer wes able to pick un new information or nes cheaicals b t prineril: becace of the porticular enthusiasm end villingness to co-operate chowm by tho individuals interviewed at the for clearaucea, the ideas scens to to (this has the wholehearted approvel

[PAGE 32]
and saprort of snd theso nares plus Uhie In lviduals contacted during this trip siould te clearnd at the Tep ,curct leve: for any tyre cf contact or ucrk cn a priority basis. This troup would then form a sort of poel of brain poer er a nuclous thet u.uld work if required on problena ol Jnieroat to this Agouey. Dhoy wold le a tcady reserze Nituro
fully cleared Ln the event ol/trouble thnt weuld probably te extremely valuablo in resocrch and in advice.

The vriter wishes to point cut thut this ia uob his idra tut that it ccemod to ater fron the group. Certainly it could be. said thuat the full. fecilities of the ciand thee Cand tho Sclenco tuildinge can te mado ovilahlo for our work, with the caly provision that it must be renortared the éand huron exparirentation except B vithun very lirited renges is not carried cut on private patients. 1 financiat discusslens wore' iavelved in any of the etove a d it uas very crphatically pointed out to the writer that tho acccpted no B money during World Yar II for auy of Uio work thnt wrs done for tho U.s. Governnent, particularly the U.S. Mavy. As notod prevlmusly thils trip wos more of an emploratory naturo anl wes,uot. nired at "itmodinto results" tut was rather alred al a pousiblo full. cooperatioi in thc future.

[PAGE 35]
On Saturday, 9 April, the writer talked to Ancathesinlogist between 2:00 anud 5:00 PM.

as uaual, was most có-cperative and again exprassed his williuguess to cary
out any type of werk or testing that wouldi be possible under his precent
circurotonces. lie stated thist his work precluded erhaustive recearch but
felt that thcso vcapors ("truth serum" and psychogenic chemiuals aa Lntelll.-
gence weapons) vere cnos that required a great dcal more tire and attention
than enyone he lmov of hed placed in then to date. lio otated at the prosent
time his criránal.work with was slocking off bocauso gras not in good
henlth and because certain poople at th Cefarded the use of tho b
"truth aeruao" teclnirpes, even for criminal cago, uusuitablo as Ametion. (Uiher sources indical in lad reputo st. the 4 nay 1o diucharged.) rtoid he had done a few noro casos nd his results had C
been good as far as Lhe polico wore concerned. stated at the C
pregont tine he either usod scopalomdno intravonoualy at the beginning of
the tochniqo or.seconel. Qercafter, ho uses pontothal irediately or at 99

[PAGE 36]
lcast witlin the next ten minutes. lle said he considored this safe aid it has produced catisfactory rosults as far as he was concerued.

tated ho had not had a chanco to tost cut Glorpromazine with pentothal. end felt thls should bo done. lle aloo suefosted that we exarine a ncw Hli Lully chonical Valain or Valeudd.

Stated he lad interest in this work, thcro vere an infinite munber of choricals to be tried anl in his opinion (stated to the writer previouoly) an {FO rachine was cssontiel to this oreration. sthtod in In the near future, he vos to havo au fLo, machine for the anesthesiolory departrent at. the Tor tholr sole use and with this he could and B would test in a liritad way if vo would sond chemicals of intercst to ua with proper supporting information.

Catatedthat we should exanine a new chomical called Nr13 C
which has been developed by an Australian in Auutrnlia by the nano of 3 agcribed this chiemical as a specilic antagonistC
to the barbituratos andi he has bocn atterpting to obtain the chenical from Me stated pronised to send sone of the chemical to laxperlréntal purposes and atated ba would werk wlth C
it. wien it arrivod and koep us inforal. In Uhle connection he stated
thara there was an artiela appearing in the iAiGhi of Jonuery l955 and tho
tRtilsn Fülmah, danuary 1955, coucorning thia rey che-leal. ptebe! that sore bir ego he bal atterded a couvention in C
the Enrt, arperontly Pau Jork City, at which
was prosont. täted he knew of Kork In aesthaslelogy CD
and nx that he has,. of course, suspocted that engaging in work A

[PAGE 37]
aloag "truth gorn" lines. le ptated tiet davitod liir up to lá
room and thal a dloeusslen wes held during ulich Faoked C
how his vork was;preressing en "truth senus." Aecording to C bsked, "liow aid yon knau pbout that?" and enetently Jenied working D
on it: tol Tak can read letucnu ve Linco" and wden he CD
preased thie sibjcct apparently to he' hed snother cen-C
ferenco to attond and imediately left tho roon. In this connoation, it
is intereating to note that stated that ves rencrally re-CD
gnrced as a "paney" by anesthesiolocistswho how lin tu Brgaid C lid not. make n pass at hin, althouglt Femnrked that C wasked hin il he woulu like to take anhower while he was in the room.D
No otler details along this lino wero developod.

cested thnt the following tiacce te placed in the Ageney C conficmtial fileo: lie stated ond t, promualty a docter, dd  B not have his contract reuawed at the Satlecause ho is apparently a Corrunist. He atoted that one whomn ho knew at the H-B pnd elso a doctor, had refuned to ro  to the Veternns Alairdstration to accept a position becnuso he had to slgn an oath.

[PAGE 38]
le hnd not yot sottled on Nia Lmcdiate futuro.having several offors for work olseudiero ubich he vas-considorirc. ile repeated that if ue vould  sond hin wiy chenicals with the necessary information for thoir uue he vould ba glad to make limited tests with thoa alung linas of interoat to us. lo requested we forward information on Seratonin to him and also send hin what matorial vas available on the work thet was doing wãs acqpainted with core of tho lltorature en LOD but told the writor !e had nct worked with it exporinontally or Ln any of his clinical cases. lle recogtizod its extreme intorest from a paychogenic point of viou áni suggested it required experirentatien, particularly uith ether chanicals.

lolii In tho witer'a opinion, we should forvard to, cortain chenicals for his study and uoo but we should not go mch boyoud this at the present tiro. The writer feels that hay, at the presont tiro, still be C too freah in his mind for hin to beconc Lnvolved in work of a bighly sensitivo uaturo. lihilo it is cbvious tha uas redhy and willing to co-cperate wiuh us andl in a omall vay wo shovld gond hin sore matorisl, Lho :riter feels that extrusive corvitrcuts should not, bé rado to lic or consitive naterial sheuld not be uent to hía nou.

The writer epent Laotor Sunday afternoon, i0 Arril and pert of that

[PAGE 39]
evening talking uith Eiscussed the proposed work C at and statod as soon as clcarances care through the entiro oporation B would begin. llo socmod very anthusiastic about it and Jnforned the wrlter his tean wao interested and rondy to go. lo statei that if thoy were not overwhelred by red. tapo or sisdirectod, they ahocld produco extresnlr valuable inforration from aither a negetive or positive point of view. lie steted was an extremoly brilliant mn and was capable of C produci'6 ideas that slould be of groat value. Re urced thet tho writor on lis next tríp Whrough farrençe a cenfcronce vith as constantly working vith and exporirenting with new and unugual C chomicals and conbiuetionio and the writor should talk to snd trief C him on new chenicals and now arcas of interost since ideas would C le valueblo.

,still. very strongls orientod in cur dlroction and his C enthusiasm nnd energy are worthy of coment. As is well kiowm, his police comnections and othor connections in the are very wide and irportánt ond it la felt Whct dirrespectiv of the peration frnC TUS, chculd bo conataitly held es an CO conaaltant in case of Lr future need.

The writer informe e hon he left hin that he would make arrange- C rónts on hie nezt trip to tbe area to sit towa idtha C discusa in detail tho verioue entlea of intércst to the AlticliokE vork and its rolstian to Lho B

On Menday, 11 April, between 2:00 and approxi-ately 5:00 fN in the

[PAGE 40]
aftemoon, the writer telked to C at thie wdio is regarded by sany knowledga- 1
abla individuals as protebly tha. oustanding in tha Unitod States,
if not tho vorld, today, hextrerely co-operative and surprised
the writer ty asking aftor the tenernl sibjeet had beon introtuced, why Uhe
vary fertile field fo toxic muishrooms had not beon further explored. zaid ho was well aware of tho fact that there grow in the Soviet Union
mushroons that wore toxic mnd the literature contained rany cxarplcs of the
Russians, particularly the primitive Siberian triles, uain; ruotrcomo as 1
intoxicants.

Tho writer showed he rory extensive list of questions and C names of various mushroona which sont vith the writer. A Rexenined the lst and stated that the liut uas nccurato anud C inberisting but et-ted there were literallg thouaands of rnohroons In the abevt Unitod States gof which ve knou nothing and huunired of which aro. toxic. : He gtated if work were to be done along thcse lincs, those specics that exist in tho U.S. and lanada shculd bo studled first. lle ttatod that the toxicily or cherdcal content of the nushroon is not in his field and thia would roquire a pharracologist or chiondst plus careful reseauch. Hle urgod, hovever, that thia work be corriod on.

eatated that this suumor ho vas going; to take a fiold trip C collecting, mpecirens 1A Eand steted he would to very rlnd to colleet end yroserve spocireus for ua. lie stated he tould do this froe lut if extensivo collectiona were to be carried out, a amall sun of money would bo noeded to hire nasistanta to help him collect (probably soveral hadred dollars would be sufficiont). lie seld he would make the

[PAGE 41]
and alated he cmuldhi't see why wo couldi't be included in a greut of this kind and wiy he cculda'i, collect raterial. of interost to us on this field trip. In developing his idces of work on ways ho could assist this Agoncy he folt tofore auything else shculd be donc and certainly tefore hn loaves for sumrr tork this yonr, sorcone fren the A cucy eutirely fardliar with mushroons and who wderstands the problew Involved techcicaily shouli visit hin. lie stated he would be glad to ait dowa end diocuss the entiro problen with that individual and would welcono ideas and thoughits along lincs of intorest to us.

then statod omphatically to the writer that he regarded the C following as a natter of extremo intolligonce irportance. le stated that from his study of msluroons and from.his laiouledgo of Soviet activitios along these lines he is corplately convincod the Sovieta are attespting ,to produce latex or rubber frem mishrooms. lle stated apecifically tiat the Bulgaria nfa'has à rubbery Iruiting: tody and ho belioved that Lhe USol was interostod in this mushroom for ruhber. llo gtatod in addi.tion to thlo that the-loctaria group of mushrooms tefinitely had latex in its body pnd thiat he lanow thut the Pevloto would be Interosted in thio ireun. lie rointed Lo the foob that if the Buvict Vniçn wra nble to tevelop strnlag 4 ol' theoe misbroorws that could bo grom 1 vats or lndoors or under ccntrolled eircunstances anì could cors up with a way of devoloping thila suecassfully, they wculd have a scuree of crude rubber and it vas his guess they are doing exctly that. le stated that this was extrenely isportant. Ho sugosted th

[PAGE 42]
tlet. was an outstading ivcolouist and would kiow quite vell of U.S.S.R. activities in thia field. He stated he did not. know Whe political oriantation co aut he should bo contacted il posoiblo. mallod aliention t uheso aldresa io Hlad worked with hin at one tine and was a capable mycologist but undoubtedly a Commnist. In addition to this, haid he was now convincod th C rovernmeut uas studying, and collecting mshroons, not for agriculture renoens, but for níher rcasons. llo stated up until a for yoars ago thore was no intovest ine an muahroons avon thoupjithoy grew there abundantly. He atated now there 1s a lrauck of the hat is vory active in this fiold and stated this dopartrent is headed by uho in a cmpatle ryeclogist and 1t-B/6 taxonemi.ot. le stnied it was of particular interest to hin lecause a young lady had been se t by from theg B to wonrk during the preceding surrer aith C This young -lady, whant ecarded as vory capable, was asked by C phe was working with him and not looking for mushroors in yomg lady replied that ia not my bronch, others are covering those, erees. Thio indicatet te that C extenslve work was boln: done along these lfnes arged -that we cloar, fof the C le state ás a relialle Amcrican B citizen, a very capable mycologiot and highly recommends hin. lle callad attention to the.fact that the Puget Sound area contains a great many toxe

[PAGE 43]
rnohroors ineludirg rany Artniita Fantherina.

eurged tha CC p cleared and higly recomended him as an excellent rycologist, bointod out that there were nany sell-knowm and rany nnkmowm toxie mushrocns existine letieonFlorida and Texas and yas acquaintedC with this torritory intiratcly.

Lrequested that we cleck who ia an officer C C of the le stated this B oryutization, of which he know nothing, is ef extremn interest to hia boceuso Thad arpreached hin in comnection with: a rubber-producing ruishroon. C "roquested that C C B who ia teclncally boss, te cleared. lle stated that if ho wore doing wrk for uo either officially or unofficially, aould be advlsed of it althe gh nct'necossarily in deteil. staled as far as hn knew, Aod a govermrcnt clearance of como type. C sntatod hn knew who is nou working at C·月 lrstatod Is a capnblo nycologist but his political background is dubiouo, probably Cortunistic.

Also of intorest is tho fact that rpcologist with theg at Chad reccutiy visited hir and aslad B him concernin: muairoors prodncing pugchogenic effects. eid he C vno quite palile to Put hod to tel hin es he told Le uriter Uhat the fiold wan cnorrons end rçqvired a ruch ronn spectfie approach beforo ho could holp. eald he did Rts not know wut from tho ( nature of the conversntion, he folt that wao beginning a study B of mushrooms having poychogonic effects.

[PAGE 44]
atated Je had been eatune muchroors all hts life and ho hrd C huad mushrocso nake hla sick, make hin dizsy, dostroy his coordlnation, and orlentation anud, in foct, act upon hin in almost overy vay excopt kill hin. lie stabed ho had tested mshroons of all varinties and run aeross mumcrous rurdirooro that had raay contal end plysical féects. le gavo exrrples of peoplo having eaton rualroons snd falling fron ticycles and ho and hls wife after eatinz Verpa Bohemis, a mall wild spring varioty, spparently native to Chād had tholr vigunl cocrdination corpletels upeet end he hiroelf nfte eating this mushroer had valkr: tnie c wali viiile trging to vall: Uirouh a doer. lecouse of theso itated this wholo fiold C chould to explored. le asia roiteratod that he hinself was not in a position to make chierical tests or pharmcological tests on aaslucons bat he could collcct nd ideutify mslreers along; lirs hieh vere of intorest to na and he ueuld do to 1f proprrly toquested aul the nrcosery tecluieal arrangerents uere rade with hln.

C For the rocerd, it should le uolod tha Isted nurcrous tush-C , rocns of intorest fer the writer and cot entod on ouhers. 0lco 0 dhowed the niter t!o collection of fugi anl related plentdot the and in ndaition nhowed the sriter the corraspendence filns on racireczs, whdch cevero a ierlriido not.

In the write 'o epinicn, pcars t lo ertrenl:valuable C
ard a uture grutee of irfor  ton fer the. à: ne :td aicnld doftnitely
te crloited. Ne wrtter reccnrenta bhat sezcere bevtee Leoatieal baoaletce
-violt ac coon os posciblo and that the qiostlon  fina: ciug Ceild. le taken up protahly with To8 :t cnce. vhile the writer has no
krgrlelre of the A -enez's ermnections with the
he ls cartet cch ccircetiens ust exist anà Ue vriter recorrends tet fnl

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advantage be takon of thee collectin, trip that win C undertake in 1956 for the