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MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

SUBJECT: Conversations witC

to
this date. After the introducti ment.

Bbywasintroduced Psprequest at ll:00 a.m. fleft for another appoint-

2. stated that he hed heard of several CIA reports on the subject of drugs and hehad been conducting a mumber of investigations along this line for some time. He would like to kmow whether or not the Agency has any appreciation of the importance of certain lines of drug research as it affects national security and outlined the lines which he thinks are most important as follows:

a. The use of drugs in connection with interrogations either by the Soviets or the U.S. (least important)

b. The use of drugs to influence the willpower of an individual. (secondary in importance)

c. The use of drugs to loosen tongues or cause normally discreet individuals to act with iniiscretion without their knowledge (most important).

3.stated that if the Agency was concered about these matters it was perhaps proper that thorough investigation be made and notive be sent out to U. S. individuals to protect them particularly against subparagraph c above.

that CIA is interested in any intelligence matter having a bearing on national security. This subject has been referred to the Agency a number of times as a matter worth looking into. We have noted, however, that for the most part the subject is covered by a nunber of extravagant claims which have no basis in actual research. While there is a great deal of research going onia the. therapeutic affects of drugs the other applications which.rslentioned seemed to have been relatively untouched. Should aomebody have a research program in effect which gave promise of positive developments towards new uses of drugs we would certainly be interested in it.

19 November 1951

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5 cautiono that he should not inter- C
pret from these remarks that CIA would become actively engaged in such
matters. Unier the law under which we operate, CA's job is to insure
that all aspects of the national security are covered from an intelli
gence standpoint and if the research is being actively undertaken by a
service department, we would merely want to follow it and make sure
that it is in all respects adequate. Since with t is working e we feel that we should tie in
with that office in discussing these projects,Action has already
been taken to establish contact with thesra
in connection with s project.(In the conversations with iathis date the matter of getting together with thegsn ur. was given the highest priority and should"be
accomplished this week.) e advisg that when
we had established the appropriate arrangements with theaita
swe will get in touch with him probably through that Office.

6. .mentioned difficulty in obtaining suitable subjects for experimentation. He is presently usingttesotg st but recognizes the difficulties in maintaining adequate security with this procedure. He asked if there were some way we could arrange for hin either to use prisoners in State Institutiong or perhaps some other subjects.adviseof theunclassified C report in the "Journal Lancet" which describes the relaticnships Dr. established with the ewmight like to look into the possibility of his establishing the same relationships with fficials. The B legal aspects of this are described in Dr. Mathews report.

madescribed his travels and hie conversations with other people on this.project. His notes on these conversations are in the i Sbecause they feel they should be kept in a threc-conbination sat after his conversations with agreed he would have to be more careful in his contacts and under no circumstançes would he mention any conversations with to others.

iadvised that he would be back in Washington this weekend ari if we have completed our coordination with therrr we might develop the matter further at that time.

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