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Report by, bourced ty  HiC. \~ Ner. is ccp Y TES 6 Nev. 53 DISCISSIOR LT ntcnber 105?

rwaew the Deonnry were hoth in the Unid States in i wn t. (I ha: kom this before goinc there. Thoir abser  ws en opportunity to obtoin frech points of viev froz their colleagues. These prored intorestir.)

waeswase phsmacoloricrl associete, ated as hort.(I hed net his in Neme ?ith Masars ani hed cnterttined his at dinner there.)

Froz the ver, berianing of our discussion it becans et once epparont thet en extreordinery chenge hid occurred since my last year's visit. (Nothing could offer a batter exaple of the icportrnce of continuit in studies of this kins than the éomperison of this year's discurcisn with last year's. I sn certrin that a visit for tho first tine this year vouli have led to wrong conclusiens.)

Last ycor, ewes vere full of onthusias for their vork on the erpot derivrtives, roth the diethylenia of lyserric ncid ("L.S.D.-25") ond the new monetayl mid ("L..E."). They spoke with a heppy sish of the "zore thcn 200 leboretorios" enseged in sork on the L. S.D. end of the "burden" (which they obviourly enioved) that this threy on thes. Vork vas vrocecding riskly in their laboratories and they were delighted vith the situation at this time.

This year en extrcorlinarily different atmostehere prevcilei: encer vore they sonsrently zuch interested. This was so obvious, I aked aaer giving up thcir vork in this field. His assver vas vague. Apperentlr he sensed its inndecucoy, for ho rather hestily cdded, "we have no meons here for testing thoss your other produsto". I refraines froa pointing out thét the lack he tentioned wss present last year too. It was closr thet he did not wich to cursue the subject cnd I let it drop. The .sigificant thing wzs the rather sterling change in sttitude frs lest year to is

I gave  a brief report cn our work with L. A.E. (sufficient only to ensure his continued ccoperation and a supply of the drus. This supply he prorised to continue.) He spoke of thoir necd to got "some agenoy" to undertake a systematio study of these arents. Perhaps he enphtsised e little too nuch their willingness (eagemness) to hive scse official body in the United States take on study of these druge. I couldn't help vonóering if he wrntod to get it plrinly on the record that thoy had nade these egents availebls to the Vest, lest truffic vith Russia (see y previous report) look bad at sone future date end in sone future vorld situztion.

At this point I vas curious to wnderstend tuhat had produced thu chenge. Severul possibilities vere to be considered:

: (a ) Thcy had lost interest scientifically. (Incredible)

(b)  They had becere clamed et the ethical crd rorel p roblen involved. (Izpreteble)

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(c) The cculd er ro adernate finenctal retum. (Ponrihle, but it sccro rarrl tonrnst, espcelrlly in view of their slretcy considereble investatnt.).

(d) There hed been serious accidents, toxic rrcction.(Interesticly enourh, Hehe a neventatrist (ml end a lcasing investigrtor of L.S.D. It is inrossitle to beilrve thet he woulen't have passed on his inforstion to his collesgucs,uae ssacy, concerming the accident in Er (nentioned in ny earlier report).

(e)--There has been unfavorable publicity of such an extent as to frighten the capeny into restricting their interest. (I have seen no such publicity in the Unitri Stotes press or such European pross as I have seen; hovever, there ha? been rone. This wes spoken of at a later discussion, es follows:

A luichcon vas arranged for ne whereausend arssamavore precent. Pruring tn absence frop the table o s I said to cpperentiy an offisirl of the conpeny, "I hope you are not abendoning yous intcrest in the orgot derivatives." "No," he said, "but ve are hured shiliren." Then he mentioned a considerable quantity of unfevorable publicity which he said hed steaned "fron the atapress". He seid he did not kow who hed becn resporcible for it. He rezerked that this publicity had cornentei on possible politioel snd nilitar uses of the egents. (If these press reports have been cozpiled, and certainly they shoulé be, I should like to see thez.)

I cen only quess, but it seens probeble thet thie ufovorsble publicity is responsible for the new attituds spoken of et the begiming of this report. Other factors sre doubtless related to this publicity such as fear of lav suits by "victins" or subjects of experinentatk

(f) There is of course the possibility, very improbeble I think, that Cy hes, for econoric, for trede reasons, or for other concideration, deciced to nate its infomation and cutput available to the East and that talk about a "U.S. agency" to work in the field is for the record only. Acsinst this is the assurrnce thst I cen have a contiruing spply of L.S.D. end L.A.ž.

During the course of the above conversation I asked tema if they ha? mede any ner derivotives of lysergic ncić. He said, withcut interest, well, they had hed one, but it haen't paned out. hhether this is true or merely part of the new nininizing policy would be interesting to know.

I should like, at sone later time to follow up this acouaintsnce with T He seeed core forthright, perhaps less discreet, than the others.

A follov-up should be nde on the present illness of Casc the sugccstion that. it was related to his experinentel work. This raises the questior of whether frequent sclf-expsrinentation vith the crgot derivatives coulc be-responsible. This is of enough iportence to justify investigation, I thirk.

I have reacon to bolieve that theCospony has or hend ebout 20 pounds or L.S.D. This is a fantastically large snount. This should be checked. If true, cne cin nake interesting speculation as to why they made so much so eerly in the trials of this sgent.

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ta 41 2.