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l. Immediately after the conference on Friday, 30 Noyember l951, Feuccepded in finding and and the writer discussed -electric-shock devices and certain related matters froa about 3:30 to Lil5 with

is reported to be an authority on electric shock. He is a profossor at the and in addition, is a phychiatrist ol considerdbla hoto. Cis, in addition, a fully cleared Agency consultant.

3. explained that ho felt that elactric shock might be of considerable interest to the "Artichoke" type of work. He stated that the atandard electric-shock machine (Reiter) could be used in two ways. One setting of this machino produced the·normal electric-shock treatment"(including convulsion) with amnesia after a number of troatmente. He stated that using this machine as an electro-shock device with the convulsive,treatment; he felt that he could guarantee amnesia for certain periods of time and particularly he could guarantee amnesia for any know-. ledge of use of the convulsive shock.

4. Fotated that the other or lower setting of the machine produced a different type of shock. He said he could not explain it, but knew that when this lower current type of shock was applied without oonvulsion, it had the effect of making a man talk. He said, however, that the use of this type of shock was prohibited because it produced in the individual excruciating pain and he stated that there would be no question in his mind that tho individual would be quite willing to give information if threatened with.the use of this machine. . He stated that this was a third-degree method but, undoubtedly, would be effective. atated that he had naver had the device applied to Himselr, but had talked with people who had heen shocked in this manner and stated'that they complained that their whole head was on fire'and it was much too painful a treatment for any modical practice. He stated that the only way it was ever used was in connection with sedatives and eran then its use was extremely painful.The writer asked
whether or not in the "groggy" condition following the convulsion by the electrio-shock machine anyone had attompted to obtain hypnotice control over the patient, since it occurred to the writer thas it would be a good time to attempt to obtain hypnotic control.
atated that, to his knowledge, it had never been done, but he could make

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this attempt in the near future at.the und he would ses whether or not this could be done.

and f,as well as all others present discussed the use of electro shock at considerable length and it was .opinion that an indiridual could gradually be reduced through the use of electro-shock trestment to the vegetable leval He stated that, whersas amnesia could be guaranteed relative the actual use ofthe shock and the time element surrounding it, be said it would obtain imperfect aenesia for periode further back. lie stated several instances in which people who had been given the electro-shock treatment remembered sore details of certain things and complete blanks in othar wars

6. said that a who is practicing nas nerfectad a battery-driven Bhock nachine which, eccording tb is portable. Psaid that the standard eslectro-shock machine ls a very comon machino in medical offices and in the major citiessthere must be severel hundred' of them in use at all times:

7. stated also that there would be no way of datecting that an individual had been given electro-shock treatments except through the use of the electro-encephalograph and then only if the individual who had been given the electro-shock treatment were placed on the encephalograph within two weeks after the shock had been given. He stated that a definite pattern (sinilar to the epileptic-encephalograph" peter) showed on the encephalograph aftor the shock treatnents, but this pattern diminished in time and disappeared in about tro weeks.