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-Cn Aut 6, 1251, 4 and the iter mith a atterded a rpeciel cenferance atqalbecdquerters, Chevy Cuase Junier College, betuken 3:30 p.n- and 7:0o p.. In cdditien to those zentioned ctovg. there uore fresent Esexeseseea(arrerently a Th.D. and in charge of an Eranch),t etey(a Fh.D. whose Fccialty is in the field of elcctronics) mdTr.E froposed Bluebird consultant, a close vorking cesociate cf Er.Weser and a Th.D. in the ficld of elcctronics cells.)

and the triter attcnded this conference at the suzgestion Sesmrost in the telief that the confcrence vas to have been a report on Tis, bovever, vas rot the cace. The details follos.

s opered the ccnfcrence by statirg that he hed been in charzo fof a project in Jaran and Korea in vhich the Arey had used a polygrarh opcrator fatated that ho hed had for Nany years an iztarcst in the use of the polysrerh but thet tils recent Koresn experienes bad canonstrated sgain to hin that there vas a vide civsrsion regerdine the cficccy of the polyeraph tetucen, the polyeraph operators thezselves znd irdivicsals vho looked at the polyareph fron a scicstiric" point of vicu. He rtated that ke vas aissed to find cut that the psychiatrists and prycholosists on this Torean project d zot azree in any vay with the poly-Fraph operator as to vhether or not tho polyarach vas effcctive - the folytrarh operator mintaining that tho polyeraph vas very cffective snd the pcyehiatrists and prychologists stating that it was mch more less effective end thet it vas not useful in nary vays' for certsin types of vork. setsastms also stated that he had found this to be universaliy tiue that polyrach operators stated that the machine vas very effcctive and that scientists or doctors felt that it vas less effoctive than tho proforsionals thought it vas. Fe stated therofore that ko weted to talk to the abers of tho conference and (1)'get their opiniors as' to the achine's effectivenoss and (2) to cet in motion a projcct uhichChconld handlo to delibarately study end cvaluate the effectiveness of the polygraph. He stated that this could be doro tySs probebly through Cancral Larkin (Chief C-L,U. S. Ar) or probably thrcugh Ceneral Anthony ScCauliffe (Chicf-GI, U. S. A).

pointed out, as did lr. and the iter, that they vero in attendance at the conferonce unccr the sisunderstanding that the conference vas to be a report on certain polysraph operations in Rorea end that thcy could noè comsit thensclves rolicy uise as fer as Cfa was concerned. Hovover, since their preccnce vas official and since tho confcrence itself vas of individuals of high sccurity clcarance lcsrrs aeres cnd ErDandEap coorerated fully in discucsions,farticulrly tmd both having technical kcilcdge of the polyeraph.

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Early in tho conference Sp displayed a polvaraph chart vhich he seid had tren run on his and vhich consisted of the standard card liest. Follosing this, in a convcrcation,taeto aditted that all aeplcyces vere bcing b on te polvgraph on a loyalty test aprarntly idntical ith that uscd at Cak ridee (AEc) and arrareatly on a coniract basis at so such per head. cze it anzears is clito Pevorably innrossed byEs rothode and is in zo way la uilier with the sora pcrsistent end subtle Ièss technicues.

pestsaee (uho atived aprrondnitoly one hour after the conference kogen) Fointed olt that he had little techrical knoulcege of the polygroph itrelf lat becanse of his wark b taricus coxnitteos he had been reqested to losk into this tope of thing and he sxyrossod hirself to the effect that he hed groat intorest in the polyerah or any other devicss having to do tith tho detcetien of decsption. c apeontly wes foiliar vith tho e at them s and vith projects elseuhere having to do with machizes for measuring ceception 2

w ho was introdaced inta the confernce byawwy had no kroulcdge of the polyeraph, having never seen one or beving any idea of its operation thercof. As a rosult, considerablo tine ves censunsd in cxplaining tochnical cotoilo of the operation of ths polygraph to Tesm and to a certain extent to Rs Tho conference develo ed that gswa had reccntly cao aboard Jaa cnd that ct procont he vas clcered as fer as nfecrets clearanca althouch atly knowm sersonally both to  and  Accerding to se is to hd up an si trofcct uch is to be kou as nes and part or the cork of tis Warroject will bo to stady gadgets and cevices for the Ary. ere st-ted that he could cee no reason tiy the study of the polygraph and its cifectivezess could not be brought under the projectgs and he vould spccifically ascitto such sork.

In the general discussion involving. the polssraph, it becare at once obvious to cers.s and that acnd core not thoroughly backerounded in the ure ef the polyerapa nor did they uncerstand its applicition in so far as CLA vas concernad ror vore they Enre of any imvolvezents of the polyseph in varicis ceurts and that thoir approsch to this whole situation vas aore on a scientific level than at the operations levcl. eee andnyer to coe extent vere curious about any statistics available concornins the effcctive ness of the polygraph and wether or not statisties that zigat be available vere "valid" fron a scientific point of vies. They vere also vory curicns abput the. troining of oerators, the persopal elcrents sbout the use of the poljiraph, vhethor or not the Keeler zachine vas the rost effective in the field and other related itars. Mossrs. Enandzaesansuered these cuestions as best poszible using only statistics'that hed bsen set fortàh in refcrence books-such as Inbe. Hessrs.iersezayandeEypointed out that thereao certain snalyses of CIa's records of polycraph charts had been.made, exhenstive statistical stucies by trained indivicnals had never becn nade oving to a lack of necessary zanporer aid a lack of tine.  ande lso pointed out that the top ccourity officials of Clà regarded the polytraph vork es highly effcciave but this was, of

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course, solcly froa a security point of vicu. Esre andkalso crcssed tho opinion that Cil recerds night bo cace aveilable for futurre statistical studies on the evaluation of the polygraph if such records vculd be of value.

It tes neccesary tine and acain for kessrs.tscssendszey to point out that thcre is a vast atount of cifference betreen using a polyrarh as a sccrity veapon and exazining it iron d scicntific point of vies as to infallibility,ctc.

The confererce involved soce diccuscion conrerning other Cevices of dotection of dcccr tien much as instruzents for ncasuring the moverents of the eye, the electro-crcephalctraçh cnd soza sonic-aidio devices.

In the opinien of both lessrs Mie and C the conferonce was rinary of.aa eloretory nature and vss not a corfereace at all and originally schccnled.as a cencral meeting betseenany and sato explore the postibilitics of gtesting cnd evaluslizg the eflectiveness of the polyarapn end related Gevices for tho ccrefit of the Aray and other intcrestsd agencies. Metreeh pointed out that shereas he representod Ir. Chadvell (osi), end hence, CIA intcrcsts he covld' not cotrt hinself es to specific IA intorost in the natter and cutested that srtrrrray discuss these ceseral catters at a confer-,ence at a future date tith Dr. Chadrell cersonally. Tiseesarseacgreed to "do, all hands arreed that it would probably be beneficisl to have htnake an indcrencenò study of thoce netters. Eoth wané pointed cut that Cla sccurity vas st all ties intcrested in obtaining the best yossiblo deviccs in these fields and that ay irproveants or sucgestions along these linss vould be mogt velcone and that cTA sccvrity itself constantiy engaged in resesrch to incrcare the .cffectiveness of their cun polyeraph techigies and polysraph zachines.

The corference ended ith tho arrcennt thatr voald sapport Veraintarest in sstting up sach a project and in doing so he uculd talk vith. Cencral Lerkin and reconrend thateszw be siven sutiority to set up and Cectivate sich a project.srcrsre also areed to telk to Ir, Chaduell cozcernin? CIA intcrcsts in these natters.

the polyearh and whsther er not the. polygraph could te "eesten", vanted to Imn i2 eny tests hod been naca concarning the uce of hypnssis zad/or nercotico toth in conneclon with khe polyeraph and in comcction vith their taneral use for interrogation Furposes. Sikce the uriter is specifically vorking on cuch a proiccé ho encagodpi apin soze couversaticn along thece lines but qpccific details vere widheld in this corncction since the witer had no cortain kaoulodgo as to the cxtent thatesesesehad baen brought into the Bluebird projcct. Furthcrore, it is not koim iros the nature of the conversation wctherEgtas diccussing Eluecird or thethor his renarks in this conncction vere of a gencral. nature only. Tho vritor morely pointod out te asarottbat CIA, socurity, of course, had an intcrest in such natters and was cogizant of the uscs of rich drugs as sodiui aaytal, scopolpzine, etc. nd that

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resczrch ves boirg carricd on in ccneral frou a scenrity point of vieu along thece lincs. It tas also pointcd out at this tio toeraxsed that becauro "of extrerely severe security sasures in conneet'on vith these zattcrs that diccursioas aloaz thesa lines vas hapered. Te witer stated that ho hored in to mear fature under diricrent circrstacces to be able to discuss such zattors vith dircction. sofficicliy sinccye choued a rather keen intorect in this

ScA os: In the opinion of the ritar snd icssrs.s and  our representation at this cofcrcnce ves unnccessary. A feat deal of tine vas vacted in cxplaining elexentry things and in acadadc discussions of the value of the polytrarh which had no bearing on rr. euztwas tork, security rattcrs or other aleants nontioned above. lrzey nd pr. zey ecifically pointed cut that policy nattore involving the use of the polyerah cate fron higher suthority and that their enly concern vas in the spccific operation in tho vse of that instrriont. Roth i, and rs held the posiion thnt te polyrh as used by -Security CiA is a very cficstive vezpon fron a sccurity point of vis. Both Hesars. taweesa mdesiy houever, clcarly stated that CIA security vas aluays intarested in zore cffcctive instrumcnts ii such coild be desiged or ay ney derices or any newr netheds that emld bs introduccd in the dotection of decoption.