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26 Aoril, concerning 1. The Uuiersigned called on A loth ef when are ronorts on rarorted to kave teen active in ergot recearch for

2. Mr.msepstated that Trrhad contacted him aoproximotoly three veekz ago requortiaj as much aota as possitle en

3. alco st.'ed Uat s soze eight sourcos (core or loss) reporting on ergot reseurch. Ho statei the Waaans vore the only peracnilities involved in whon Mhad expresced a rarticular interest. He elso stated thst additionel inforpotion coneernirs the Razp will tecbtained in the norral course of events vithout our taking any further initttive.

4. wwst save me a resure of his kowledge of sowrces
concerning ergot researches. He stated that several Anericen firms are
doing ccnsidorablo work in this field for pp He further stated that Ewhrvas particularly interested in this subject dnd was mainly.
resnensitle for
parentlyssr had not been able to cbtain as much inforration
Yes he desired concerning tho eaprogrem, but that hed critised aogss roports on the grcund that the irformaticn they contained was out of date, Fe stated. thit it vas a matter of concerr to that critized Seae work because it was based largely on reports produced lysard that thcy vere constantly interested in cbtaining expert evoluations of ratorisls thcy sutmitted.

G

27 1 0

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5. Cn lesving, A me 1 tho interesting asnects of ergot resecrch. Thie\_Uniersigned told T otat-that tha lnleroigaed vished to contiiue an intcrcat in this field terct left off. as gave the-ir gned a forty airuts triefing on the subject. The tocknical contont of we Wescawaas's briefing secned to tho tadersignod kuch sounacr than 1 the technical content of cther corversations the-Unsersigrnd haß had with him. He lecked esbarrcsznant, porhaps because ve vere elone, end desoribed the prosuction, distritution snd uce of ergot derivatives systonaticclly and in soe detail. ga ves obvlourly interasted 1o1yhe in tho uae of ergot prolustion of payetotis effccts in faliviiuala. to,a much greater extent than he tas interostsd in possible uao of this as a sahotage agoht effecting large g-oups df pecple. Re stated that the principlo difficulty in usins srgot against lerge grcups wcs the eptrems difficulty ef storing it in the&e. tive o e is i unstable). He stated that thé grent desirabllity of using ergot derivatives CVOTEUS in obtaining psychotic Sisecis In iniividuals was tho fact that it is eohecive hoceylivo- in extrenely susll doses end cannot be dutected when the effcets WV have worn off. aer stated that his intorest not only revolved sround the effort to get early varning-type inforiatien of possitle Soviet use, tut also to ottain, by research, inforraticn on g Outile so that the United States vould ba prorerod in event that ergot was vec mireh, aninst ut etilireg. further described vays and nenas of detecting the prosence of ergot dorivatives)) Re stated thct organizaticns such as the United States Pure Food and Drug Administration used animal- inaicators such as Masknia snd certsin other sinple foras of life which have very characteristie racctions when they receive even the A///l srallest doces.

334.

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A.t.0 6. tat e o
cntacts obtained for Saamsa autstentinl emeut of Dro Capnine.
Tho eontact hnd traveled to scon this atarinl oe lus
open narket, and purchased soze for retimn to o t Cospary; the
ecapany in tun A//// delinred this nateriel to ana acliverea
it to I esked  if ho had all the
Eulbo Gapaino he needod or shsthep or not wo should cancel A-or Sco
H/ requ cors corydalis rescerch, which require
ment originated tithdgmzeraar He secned genuinely surriscd that I Iou he kad recsivod Pulto Capnino. He wes slightly epbarrasea
end desired that the requirenent eotcerning corpialisfrerein in force. 7. Noss indicetel, toverd the erd of our convrsatiens, that ha did not know thatEssmwes no longer vith this office.