[PAGE 2]
at. -the 7 end 3 April ): talked to at -thio (c( 9 April);
talked to -So consultact-et 10 Aprí2 ); and talied 271
to at-tho
( 1l April ). Dotails follou: 1

a ci L On the aftcrcoen and in the evening of 6 April, tho vriter and 2 Co-Contact-Orflcey discussed -tho end tho perconalities sdhedulod for cenfcrences tho folloing day. and 2 tho writor le in a corcezy cas about8:0t A, 7 April and arrived nt (95-lss southoant) at approtely 9ih5 . Shortly aftor ariival, confercnces begen. At tho tion to : and tho waiter, thore were precont -lir -Civilien Ad-inistrator and-Er -Chief-of-mtorteariteseach. Following H:f pre-aronged planw, tho miter ctor outlinod in goneral"torns tho AnrcolE work and sátters of related intercst. His conforenco lestod approdiratelzy tro heors. After lunch, the saze driefing ves ropested with thà above-rontionod croup plns Or. Cénier-Consulbent-cnd -fazr Chiof-of-Anosthesiclo dir. Chief-of-Poychi Frosent. This, confcrcnce, ineluding coneral qpostions, lested abeut thrco kours. Lator that aftomeon at-tho here-of-be. and the uriter continued the dscussions for soveral adiitional hours.

GLLEAL

[PAGE 3]
On 0 Apr1, beten 2:00 an 1:00 , anri the writer vero shozu over the phouical layoat of and Uhe nua Badical Seiuncea Bailding, inclucing detalled visits to Uhe litrarioa, operating roons, .laboratorlos, eniral cages, cngincéring cct-up, redio-active areos, cerrmnícaticns arca, files, cocurity syatezs, ete, At ll:00 A, zhouher generel conferezce was held vith and tho vritor prcsont. folloving lunch, tho writer hed soveral chort individual tela with At preiratelyh:30 Pí and tho writer loft and roturnd to

AT 1 Durizs the two-dey visit the vriter vasable to introduco for discussion nany subjcots of intorost to ARTicuos and olher progrars of interort
to us. Thonè discussions, uhile zostly general in nature, vare at tisps auficiontly
pointod to obtein sozo spocific ansrers or opinions. Sot out bolow, are statononts
in substance concerning various iters Cscusted: LSD
particularly statod that this vas a very iportant chanical and porhaps tiith study tho rost valusble fer cur uso. He, hinsolf, is doing expérinontal vork vith it but statod at the present tire the control ef, the chorical for our uso has not yet bean vorkod out. le agrees tho, cherdical has a vory high potential and ruch eparinontstion is roedad. Ée has not urod it Ln psychiatric caso-vork.

Imsaini (An crcet derivativo -- end possible entagenist of ISo)

[PAGE 4]
PALOLETA censicer thsa a very intotesting chexlecal. They do nol telicve is veuld bs valuable by itsols for cur use lat feel that it voula be extrezoly intorestin; vorked in cenbination vith other chericals. particultrly tiánks it chculd be tricd vith Chloprornaine end possibly also in conbinaticn vith LSo.

y scated thad thore wap interesting tatariel in Dojong's book on thio chardeal and lo thought tho psychcgonie effects micht te Lntareating although ho bad nct vorked with it.

It ves ouscested thet Fenquil (tho garta isomer of leratran), Yerrill product, veald perhaps be roro effcctive and interesting than lerátran. They sacgostod study also along these lises.

2 stabea that in bio profossicnal cpinion, Politrone is hicily

[PAGE 5]
one of tho losker roo of a nearby country club td ono doctor tdatod. lin back cnd mock inoich a vay that hó could not straighten up, every moveront being very raiaful.ro-hia bock to tho Clhne mnd cevo ka 10 cc. of Dolitrone intrerasclarly in the buttock cnd vithin Fimtes this doctor uas allo toletraiphten up, movo abeut, cvenating a golf clùb and felt no rain. soidko did not check out he long the condítion lasted but he kow it lectcà at loast geve:al hours ond he statod it vas tho firot fizx Politrone had boen used intrarmsculorly. DrT folt that for peoplo who had to jun frea parachutes and in line of doty be subject to pain, brcken legs, sprains, ete. and aho had to perforn an assizerant in a given pariod of tiro, this night bo an irportant discovery. The uriter sietestod that this could bo uorked cut urin? an eutozatic injector device and
said in his cpinien it dofinitely could. le stated ho would vork cn the problen and cive it thought Einco he clcarly recogised its valus to us. AnTee
Fo snu Fegróed thát thóy soudl do cors vork -in tho futuro an the
poychoronic and armeaic,efrects of politrone.

[PAGE 6]
Bobh coctors arced that tho asplrin Latlet was a sirplo vay ef adaiistratlen nid pozaibly aspiria cozbined :ith other-chericals right preduce interesting resalts. Nhoy had dene no work aleng Uhece linos but adzittod phat pills could bo rade to rezemblo ospirin tablets cnd ths tas indeed a very coron pili.

SURIJUANA

Intórosting but did not appeer to bo sood freo our point of vicu. 'deabted ito vlue as a telk procncer porticularly since control vevld bo difficult. C?suggested experirontaticn vath tiis conbined 1 with sore other clemnts.

BADTTELTS

.earo, of courcs, Eadlier with all types of barbáturatos. has uocd Barbitarates in psyehiatry to a Creat ax tent. Vee of Darbituratos, of couco, as an cresthetic is standird and has tado trerendous cantributions in tho field of Earbiturstos, particularly his introductien of sédina pentothal. The vriter csked both nen if thoy woro failiar with sy nes chortcals in this fiold vith uusual. and strengo rosults. The writer vas inforned there vero zo parbicularly nes barbiturates curroatly being studied and any new informntion alcng thcce Lines in the futero veuld be transritted to tho uriter. -mt" aprecd with tho vritor in tho uso of ccrtain barbituratos ccvpled vith nertain stimlants in narco-intorvieus as boing effective. Ho has haà considerable experience alsng this line.

[PAGE 7]
oaid he wauld cáve üho ratter soz consiéeration and vould olso díocusaho prollen viah (nos-yeteleuo)

TERTIARY AIL ALCOHOL

Far Sey wero farilfar vith it and

said bo dica't thinl: it was vorth aything and vas quito faniliar tiuh it.

He stated a corpoand komm as "i2" put out by Parko-Davis vas far superier.

(The şriter ray bave nisunderstool tho tors "Hl2" but since it is conteplatça

furthor vork with these ren this ratter vill be talen up at that tine.)

PIFRADROL

Term montioned lat no comonts made. Apparently, this copound may to exporisontal and hece not yet used elinicelly.

SEPATOGTI

Eoth dootors vore fasiliar iith Seratonin andepertielanly des-

eribed it as very intolesting but ho had not cono any vork: udth tho motarial.

44 Ear-,  otated that he woald cxasine that he had en Soratonin cnd that at

somo luturo dato tho ratter aheeld be taken up wità kin agin? His Statel ?

obvioualy it vas of great intorort but he dic not feel at tho presont tirs

it mas verthaile  to cnt upon its applications an remlts.

DIBENDTHE

ptated ib-ens no good, froadis-pepccaal-knoiledse

[PAGE 8]
termerted that theco peculirr corpevnis often had inberosting psychogenic czfeets. Mey ptatod. Uhat they had not studied it Lut coubted it vculd have cuch uco for us. This vas crparontly based on tho humusual side effccts tich probally vould not bo aceful. snd ni-lt éofinitoly te dangerons.

CELORAL. stated ha-thouht that Chloral liydrato vas net good and sialás-use had nover boon cuccessfal. Novevor, he- did not preclude verk nith it.bat-did act-lieetho-cetstane. 1

DOUUSO1

boe: statod shis vas no good.

Both cooters reeoisod that these drugs vould produce psychogenic

effects but offered no ccmsnt.

FUROUS TOXTSMOREED'S

Ono conferonee had hardly ptmrtod boforo recieá the triter

éé if be vee intorostod in poisgous nuchroons. The vriter ánforod

dr. vo vore cturting thos now. Courgedla very cerefal

study ie mado of this and also of tho Literaturo es-it cppesrod Uhai

tode ruclrccus vero uced as intoxicanto in tho Sevict Vnica.-ie felt . "

it vas serathins that hed not be exploitod and suuosted study Ls to

tho effects produced by thaco arents.

[PAGE 9]
Agaín botat dectors vere vell acquainted vith: licrplino and mugcestod that further cploradicn coule bo rado in usins Herplino in corbination vith sach clezonts as scopolemino and othars, (lo special suarcestiens 1 rade.)

Tho doctcrs vero fariliar with tho nes but hed zot vorkod wth this chaicol.

COPOTHATICUS

stated that he folt thát special attontion should bo dovoted to the use of Serpesil (Rpuvolfin) idth tho rolatively neu chenical Gucaprcmssizo. Lo statod he had not as yet eqerirnnted in this connoction but folt it micht to valucslo. He called attpntion to an LERRENT 1SSUE editoral in tho AlS OF El TEic, an rticle on psychogenie drugs. lo sucgested it veuld bo of interoot.

cologiot or chcrist viose nare he could not romenber vio vas cpeoiclising in studying anoioga of LSD, anà had cevoloped vell. ovor l0ð of those analops. lo sucgested this mn bo cloarod and interiowed.

JT hpatod ve should clcar er arrenge to contact ire X niteantrtes Pube-lealth-terviee Raltimore,eyland. le

[PAGE 10]
Stated? seuao a brliet cecret. ron tat possitly terd to eoutrol. Ho stated thatcevelcseà the plastie necdle.statod he thount zootiine cocla be doae tiuh tho incrtioa of a plastic
necdle iutó a porsen'o veins that veull bo an idbal type of lcthal
wcaron for celr-cestractica. The wrilcr did not covclep this'idea
th
cince entra to Lerca is assured in tho future and this ficld, uluile of Antoresb, is nst perticulorly pertinont.

ADONTXCRCIE

Tho vriter renticned Adrenochrore and reiated subotances as possibly poychozenic ageats. I asrecd that they were possibly of interast bat statod he vas not exèctly certsin hou this could bo voed.

The writer iatroduccd the subject of lypnosis ant cplained in geveral ters cur intorest in it-asd cur work vith it. . Dpr. coirso, vos farilíer vitt hypno-aralysis but is not vsing the tochni que apparently at tho prosant tise. lie has not tricd using any of the nou chenícals as a triccer for Eypaosis and to his laczledge no ono hes tried obtaining lopaosis in the cumá-coa poriod follcvdng chock thorapy. lo oarood vory littlo was kmom sbout"tho ectual ultirato ends that vore possibly ebtaitzblo threugh bypnosis. Eo- stated that it cerbainly coserved intonso cxperirentatien and theught exgerirents could bo dosigncd to ostablich koa fer sn indivicual. coald be pushod under hypaosls.

[PAGE 11]
Dredo referusco to D? by isítiols. -Betlrii

Since the dCiacessicns et tirzo cero highly teeiráeal totucen varlous

individuals present cnd since tire ves liritod, the vriter could not zl 42 f
traco out all thicco various elericals ronticned. Later at

A\~! pvaht DF? vas and its use and tho vtiter asked-LroforTed tho iter to the 1955 Edition of GOON AND CIL,

pago 458.

COADE

Poth vore quito faliar fron a clinical

point of vicu vith Cocaino and its corivatives. egrecd that

work could re profitably dono Sn this fiola.

CLUPANTC ASTO AND SIESTD

Destated le was farilier with this cnd realisod that it

would have poyehogcnio effcot bat did not conzns at longeh oa it.

AICGHOL,

co

whidlgy, vine, ete. was highly irpertant to eny operations cf an Agency

of our type. Tey suggosted that preoticclly overything Eentionod oheld

bo verked in ccrbinabien with Alechel and that they voald thosselves try car

binatiens vith it and vould cxzrine possible chazicals that vould vork as

potentiators fer the effccts of alcdhiol.

ACTH, CONTTSOE

[PAGE 12]
C ttated uhat tho Siedes havo a vey of plzcing ofygen vla a tube. into tho mother's stoznch to assict in childtirthi lo staved oxgen is pued iato tho mother's starach thrcuch a tuto and instoad of having a blse baby at tirth, apparently e pin's taty results. This hes tecn used succcssfully. 8o sacgested vo give sere Lhicuzht to placing ges Lnto a subject's storach as a possitle wey to produce tal. Be said difforent gases could be inéucsd into the storach throach a tubs and atserbed froa tho stonech into tho bedy. te-aatJscid this could te casily acccsplished uith an unccnscious subject.

EECTRCHTC

actated that All persons that were talked to or rot at had a vast array of eloctroaic eqipmnont of all typas. Mhey
stated thoy built their cm devicos if doviccsiaro not ovailable on the they had muorous eévicss that vero ensirely
morkot and at; rigre. lost ef thoso covdess eule bo too cenplex, teo duny or require too mmch attention to serve a usoñl pupose in cur vork. -D stated ho vas qito fardlier uith clcctronarcosis and seeted it

ves clursy md painful and folt it ould net be usofl-to ps. It should bo notod that the croup telkod to stated that thoy would bo glad to docign and baild asparates for us if such vore requírod or that they vould thoncelves attopt to devolop epperatus or devices that aroso fre: thcir thinldng alons lines enticñed heretofore.

UERCAL TECUES

The ueiter stated ve.vare eprorely intorested in ay uemusucl

[PAGE 13]
remalts ef neu cherteels or atéago resolts that crose frea usa of neu Oenbivatees
cherdealn, oems, ofl cherdcals, clectronic devices, UF cound, ote. A

All individuls talcd to stated they were vell-awaro these thins oecurred but pt  ucey sero uoaally quiczly clininctod sinco thcy would not bo in tho tept intorests of tho patiets. Tho7 coid they uould lave to think thís problca cver boforo eppropriate enaers conl.d. bo mnde.

DIITARY PEFICTNCEES

Tho umitor iutroducod tho zattor of dictary doficiencos as a possible ueapon. Tha xriter pointed out a standsrd Soviet or Corranist technique in traimrashing or. in prisóner-huandline appeers to to a barely lice sustainieg food-raticn. Tho vritor asked tho indivicuels ho talled to to consiéor this problen mnd uhothor they theught it wigàt be possille to mamufactaro feod vhich to all cutvzrá aprearances would look and tasto norpal but vould, in fact, te Spocially prepsred (vital. elerants reroved) mnd vouud croste coafsoion, coxioty, fear; ote. in a prisoner or peshaps lcwer mntal. rosistance, incrcaso suczestibility cr affeet tho zorory. All. coctors talked to folt this wes too cczplox and in thoir opinion it woutd be nich cssier to add ssrathirg to the food for thoce mmmores ercate neu foodo. t to cenulted in this natter. Ho ptoted thet -voluno bock on dot doficiencyvould bo of interost to us.

It should bo noted thet retired specialiot cn

[PAGE 14]
24. on tho digectiv eston is aveilaslo at Tar cencultatien tut he iu not cloavo! tnd vas not talkod to zlthcugh it appears that ho rigtt be valcatle in this comectien Eis also intercucing in that ho had dore a rezt deal ef vork on pein rnd its effecte.

POPEITTACEO CTETTIS, SEEUL

Fátantisting chericals, tho xiter poisted out are interostinc to ús. Anl doctors asreed that this ficld chould ba explored. They have nothing to ofrer of particular intcrest at the proscnt tiro end ssid it yonld havo to to given theuçht.

WODENE SUIDITE

A Doctorse Mosagrected that consideration te given to our uco of Eperine Sulfate produced by tyeth Cerporation, Fhiladelphia, Pennsylvanie. This ckonicrls bas abeut the sae effect as Renzedrine only it is, strengr and roro effectivs. They .susost persons in cur work undor Antonce precoue and pufforing fren strain or hangorur rinhs find this prcperation usofl. They stated, douever, it uas protably woll imoum to us.

BRATEASETIG

For gonaral purposes, tho vriter introduced the subjéet of Braimashing. All individuals. talked to exjpressed gTeat intorest in the natter but felt that ticir thcughto vere not'colllied caouzh to ndvance any iccas in this comuection. R.ey cculd su est no teclmiquos or subtle cheicel trestrents that night have produced this phenozena bit st

[PAGE 15]
Uhey were net infermd An the,matter axeept tireech Uhe putlie prone.

URHTTTTO C EFTLEO PEECTS

The writer Cscussed et longth tho problon of the umitting end even the vicleatly uiliing cubject end askad fer ssue opinions or saciestioas as to heu such subjects coald bo broaght into a' coatrelled situaticn. Tis problen, according to all interviezed, required con sidoratle thou-ht, Clocolz related to the abore vas tle puroblea of what coold to cone to a person shó vas asloep vithoat distrbing snd tithoat leaving telltale rarks cn Whe parcon or leaving a hangover. The answers vere egain the tero but z.sahoued the vriter a very srall siaed entively portable nectiro-fer alrinistoring gas áich had pocsihlo - uso in theso cases. This szollnighly portable covdce had containfors of various caces in littlo cylincors ciniler to thcse used in tho Sporilet soda bottles.  sugcosted that this mchino secred extrcrely valuable for our study (cea literaturo atttohed). As far as is Lno, this ciine has pet yet voen raricted snd tie writer is of tho cpinien that 1d the first tuo machinos in his crfice for study.'.é also pointed oue thiat as e firot-eid éavice or an exyien éevict len veridag vità

4

[PAGE 16]
barbiturates this devieo had,crcat rerit particularly umier ficld conditions.

PSYCRCLOSTUL RAGRAGONTOF

The vriter asked various contccts at. ail they had rade
any studies of psychological harrecamont cf eny type. The enswer vas
negative. Tho wtiter aokcd if aay vork bad beea doze on such things
as umsually painted rocns or slightly cut-of-proportion roons, rulber
roons, vibrations, snolls, ctc. Tho anser acain was nogative. This, based on
obviously, eppoared to be/the Lect thatt a was for assisting
hrsan boings iho are ill cnd not for reccarch into psycholegical prdblons.

10900:TES, 120.

In the dissussion conceming lotozcios, it vas oscertainod Chai neurosurgeona perforred lobotozios of verims typeo as a patter of ccurse. Thoy vere not partieularly irprescsd by the use ef lobotoses for cu.- vork lased prirarily en the fact that it was elunsy, dancerous, recuirod expert surgory vith not teo prodictatlo rasults. They mnre avaro of the terss chezicel lobotosy but apparently folt that thio vas not suitable. They lca of brain sargery perfer.od by U cound tut since this reçared occining tho skull they thou ht this also ras not fossible.feco

REDTOTEAL PLANTS

eff

[PAGE 17]
effees of "raasual" plonts epen hurzns. In this censection, it is interesting to noto that favegaiirireéghtnp the subjcet of ruchreora, particularly the texic verioty!gytueteduia as studyiag midncor in a cenoral. sense end hed noticed several articles in the literaturo doseribing tie uso of mshroons do an intoxieant, perticularly crong triritive Sitorien trites. le thought this uas very Lportant and felt a ctudy shoule bo rado, Ee supcsted that rerheps rashrooas wíich wera toxie pessibly usod at díianor if vorid in conbin: tion vdeh LsD or zs calizo tirht proco Ensual results. Details noté developed.

TOTAL ISOLAPTEH

Perhaps the most intcrosting discussion of the entire trip cecurrod during ons of thie cenferences. eny previcus relerenca, -sebed tho uritcr^il ho vore failiar vith tho vork of Dr, M3 in Cancda. Tho witor stated he vas fcliar vith work. Er thon asked did tho writer note the significence of Lr. vork Lron n intell-. gonce point of vicv. Tho triter replied Uhat the rattor vas kom and wo wore cxasining it and studying it as bost vo ceuld. Iho snitor askei one The7- Er ifr he lad done azy vork along those Uines aad ho roplied he Lad not but hed rced all availalle litorature along thoce lines and vanted to do sore aqerirantation if ho cculd mko sone arrangezonts. stated Dr. F:Bis yerk xas quite vell lom and stated the effuct en 0: anirals vas also feirly uell éoseriled in tho literature. stated nt 11 5 defini Ee 1 of L it. te c verr irrortant weapon.. Re vrged that verked te done in Uhis coumectien tnd the irolation techniques le uced in earbiration vith. chuzieals svch as lb, res»

[PAGE 18]
calino, Eandhifta, cte. Tne vriter dlucussed tho dsolation prollen in ths1-4
very ceneral terns with lend' particularly asted then to givo
considoration to vaga and reans to uhich the isolatien tcchnique could
. to brought tb toar on wilinz or ror irportat wailling or even
violently-obicctin sibjocts.statod tast thoproblea appearod inportence
to Lia ef trezondcus/and ro certainly intended to give thio matter con-20
sidoralle thoacht. Si urged cosploto studios of axperimontaticn and
research in this field e nurter of tires daring the coavorsations ia tho
sevcral conforences the vriter had vith hia,

POLYTATR

The miter in vary cercral torns disrusscd the polygraph and sora of the usos made of it. lhoroas rost of ths doctors present had hoard of the. dovice, neno cf thcm had had a ciancc to seo it Ln actuel verk althcuctrhad vorked with br.Leenerdin connectien with tho oricinal devoloprznt ef it. In response to exact çuostions ccncerning moásurins devienn which would be of ueo to the Polrcraph irencn, the uriter vas inforzed Uat there tere on the stafr of sy several individials voce rmes vill ta ramticnsd later vhe had done very advanced work in the Lrventing of and dovelopmont of sensibive zoasming dovicss fer blcod prossure, sidn ralation, ete. Cne doctor is suppecod to havo develeped nussrous pletzyszogrsphs and related masurinç drvices wúich aro capablo of adapticn to tho moasurezent of docreasod or inercarod. blood pressure or lleed fles at rany points in the lody. Tis discussien vas not covelozed because tho cpecielists referred to wore not clcered and it unas folt tlas exploratien along thhis lino cculd vait fer

[PAGE 19]
FERLATS STHAN

Drvepistatod at tho proscnt tiro thero vero no new inhslants or cooes he folt vould be of intorest to us. Lo pointod out that modorn surgical tochniques of anesthesiologists require coplex hospital-tyo equipont and all nodern cporating roozs ars exteasivoly equipped tut that this typo of equiprent cculd cortainly not bo transpertod into any crude arca or used under field conditions.

TTTURES.JPRES、SPAATIS、COSTRGLLED POODUCTTCH CP

Since tho uriter and Dr. had agreed that the prodmetion of any of the abovo phésompia vould bo of consideratle intorost if they cculd be coatrelled, the costion tãs pat to the coctors inter vieved. llile they regerded the problen as very intorest no ONSVOrs 2…… vare oht: surgesied thut és sheald be clezred cnd intemviewed. S that 22 had for studi.ed and dono roseerch. in umuguel trce cf ccl ad he protatly vculd heve a ccnsidoratle aromt or

The initor ascertained that è doas not hare a tazicologirt as such bat Uhey do have chezists and phorracelegistson their staff uho have deno todeolegical verk and their services uould be rade mvailable at ay tiro a toxicelogisal study sas roquired.

these clcurances,

[PAGE 20]
Tho ntter of tha centrolled production of haadaches, oaacles or varicus pains vas dlscussec vith tho eleared contects at -C Tey agrocd that certaln pains and achos conld bo prodiced by ehericalo but. tho cantrolling of thoso es to longth of tizo of the ettack and tiro beforo tho cusot of tho attack would bo difficult. Tho problea of iou to produce a specifie illaoss cr pain that vould dovelop covoral hours pftor the çiving of a chorical vas discussed but not ireediate idoas vero proposed in this connection.

(e) "AUTOZATIC

Zhis topic vas introticod for discussicn bat since the machine was doscribed es extreroly coaplax, curborsoze and uttorly usoless uncor cur circurotences thip rattor vas not presced.

In vios of tto failura of tho hopocprey to to of partieular valuo to us, the Sabjcot of Miero-Dischabze devices for injectin of pouerful noir agents vãs introtuced. Astated he kaca of the. poncil fnfostcr-tyeo of device bit stated as far as ho lnew no one had built any of theso devices en a vury sall reale. lc areod, hovever, that with cup, laculedgę of aell hypodenaie needlos and injéeter rochanisns such a dovico could te lxilo. $\frac { x ^ { 2 } + \cdots } { 2 } = \frac { x ^ { 2 } + \cdots } { 2 }$ stated thio tore of dovice voald to efrcstivo for lethal purposes. lo stutei 'tais typo of device could be nuilt in snell sizes that coald cefinitely penctrete heavy clothin, ineluding leather jaclmts, ete.

[PAGE 21]
Tho vriter wnt feto soná discuasicn abect, uho problen of a controlled aesin and its value. Iho uriter explainod thot cur experiienty indieated that certaia charicals, ypnosis ad other things prodced annesia but theso vere'not eintolled, vero rot gencrally total and
that mndor no circunstances voulá we guarantec amesia in any type of vork. Mhe doctors discassed the catter and Ereed that ccatolled
annosia or total amcaia uas not obzinablo exeept possitly through surr which they rulod out. They also felt that elcctroshock er choricallyinduced ehock, vhils they would genorally produce anesia for the actual chock operation, would not procuco snnosia fer periods preccding the adinistraticn of the shock. They indicatod there wes sore amesia/ prodnced fer considercble pericds follosins the shock bat this cortainly vas net controlled sod would be spotty.
1

Drrstated ho felt if ho vere siven the prollon he vould try to produce an amesic thrcugh the ure of a serios of dicierontly-sctin; poyehogenic cheni als er choricals that aet upen difforont areas ef tho brain. le stated he theught that ty sitcring the cenicals back end forth both pricr to tho intorrozation,. during the interrocaticn and follcring the intero ztien it ri kt be possitlo to prodico a forn of ammasia. He stated that cortainiy a subject who hed undergone various typos of reactions to certain psychogenic chozicals end had been interrogatod eleng vith theso variouo chericals veald bs catranely ccidwscd, probebly diserionted and weuld not hais sufficicat rental capacity to differentiate betunan fact and fanéy.

ANNESTA

[PAGE 22]
leither doctor deubtod hia notives or inforantien,

Mo maiter esked the docters (partiealerly-Pri D) if they had rero uso of lopospray 'cevices. The coctres vere fariliar vith tho devico but arparcntly no uso was being rade of it at r or ézastated ho did not liko it prirarily becauso it prodnced bruises ,end voundo and be felt for his vork that other noans of adainistration vero more suitable and more adaptable. They kew of no nev hypospray dovices and certainly vore not designing or doveleping any thenselves. -Prrcopointed out that a Riypospray could not safely bo uced throuch clothing or leather. They vere not faniliar vith -Dr. (sub-lethal shots of cyanido by a "néw" hyposprayas a prisoner-centrol dovico.).

IERVE GASES

: The doctors at were faslliar with tha varions norte casos but such elemonts, vhich havo no real clinical. ure and are 2 highly danzereus, ere not handled at Tho docters aáitted that those gases or gaseo vhich could attack tho. narves in mub-lothal F:、: doées vere intorosting but no suggeotions vere offored.

COIVUISICIS

Tho vniter explaired our Eeneral theoretcial interest in the prodhuction of convulsicns as a direct veapen or possibly tho use of tho cora. period folloing tha convusion as a neana ef obtaining bypneuis.

[PAGE 23]
Tho writer also discvssed fliehuring llita er inicrrapted sonad as n nethod for cettiog eff a coralsica in a chcrically-ccnditicped tabject. The dectors, vhilo ferller with comvulsiens cnd check bherary vero unable to óffer specific sapcsticns clthoagh thcy agreed the icoas vero interesting. They suggested tho folloring:

a) Aoniua Chlorido

Axonien Chloride intravenously vill preduce convulsicns.

b) Pyradoin coficiercics vill canss convulsicns.

c) -Trissol (an aalog of Totrazol) is a ceavelsant. Eno as Trizol in Gerzany in 1933 and 1939.

d) Diberel, a barbiturate of the Lli Lally Cerpary is a comvulstet.

d) Hagnesius Sulfate intrcsuscularly vill cause convulcicns.

EEO.C0RTI00OLET6, FI EC

名 rcko extensivo use of E0 and Corticepanh equipront. In particalax? brain uave stucics ara sade in épilepey and in sock therapy. Thoy etatod thoy vure about to receive a nou cypo of Lho .1 machine which autoratically registers in l6 positiens. Loth and-ir separately stated that RG and Corticographic studies vould te yory useful in testing new drogs in comoctics prychosenic wth thair enie clfcot. (Hoto: Mis statemont has boen mado A timo and ezain to tho uriter. Seo report on a following.)

Animal tests uning theso teehmigaes are neu baing vicely used and

[PAGE 24]
results arenest intereatin, ayd highly Andieptive. Dr. Afelt Ulat throurh théso toots ruch neu raterial on brain function would bo covoloped.

AILA EIPERTSCATICN

The wiiter discussed the use of aninals and enirl experirentation 2 -01
in testing and rescarch on psychogenic E cheaiccls.
thoedical-Sciencas-Duildingand ataspectaaea-several-riloscut ) operates extensive experimentel aniral colcnies
eitec these include neny thcusands of anirals of rany types including standard colonios of rico, rats, rabbiis, pigs, dogs, cats, ete. but only a fow 1 (6 or l0) monkeys. Taoso mnimls are prirarily held for testing diroctly An conncction vith syecial. clinical cases but pure resaarch is contiruousl being cenducted at all tizos vith the caizals. The writer vas infcrrad Suould be glad to carry out anizal experinentation using that the their animals if this vere essential tò sore futaro vcrk. (This ofior was not dovoloped pendins futuro study.) Ons Drstated that us far as he kmew the best renkey colcny in under the
tho U.S. vas at the Instituto of et stated that Dr.
6 dircctorship of yof Gnivesity vas associated with Sin thie
work and both vere excellent non, Ho stated that the monkey colcny at nurered alveys betxeen 90 and 100 nenkoys. He
felt that both Dr. and ür. would co-oporate viil
us any timo-they vero apprcached. knei of no werk at
with "ualizing micc" or vith: the Gibbon tut exprested intereeò in studies with the Gibbon althcugh edrittinz ke low litile of the type. Froa soveral conversatirns it appeared olvicus thatt

[PAGE 25]
peula be Antorectel Ln the elban Lat Lilerentatiea of this ddca aas not covoloped.

#1 NorE: Allpersenel iutervieved ad verychatieally h. ctated to the vriter thsty Lso and that 1. experiroatal vork could net bo atterpted vith their paticnss cxxopt uhere it could te dhoua thet it dofinitoly vorked fer the paticnts good. They rads it very clear thet thoir vork was to hols those that uere ili and pointcd cut that their specialties verc all aired in that dirccticn. They said, hevever, soccifically thit tris did zct ct thes frae stuáirz the efiects of tho new drugs,cetarrdining poccitlo uaes of pow druñs, desiailat instrurento or frer voridng to holp the U.5. Covernrant in any vay they could. Tay statod thoir theuphbs tealu have te lo rearranged to roct the chellcié cf the varicus ideas the uriten had epresced to thani ail that certain rochanims coula to sct up alcng theso lnoo and cortain individuals should te eleared. (soe fcllcuing)

In tho finel diccussion DT Fand- tho follodnz mnren yete reconrondod for clcaraace by this Agerer so thet thcir particular skils aed talcnts could te cxploitod. All of thoso individals ao doseritod as lool and petriotie Asorícan citisens aná vio, in the opiníon of tho doctor's prcsent, woula bo willing to helo cnd coald ao ontstantial ccatributions to varicus fiel they falt tho A enay

[PAGE 26]
inst bo Anterosted in.

一DR.

eis a distinguiched wenan bicphysicist and physicist. She has a vast ranie of intorcsts; is regarded as exceptienally brilliant end is a specialist on the cffccts of ultresonics, radar end radio on huran boings.

ehas been for a nurter of years a Research Consultent at E pia biochesistry and pharracology. Frior to that he vas

head of thedesarzont and Lcan of the College of Fharracolory at the a s Uriversley urTs He is recarced as an cutstanding pharnecologiot.

is Ciof-o

: Er pis a consultant in Seuroloc to andvas

recczcended because of his lriealedgo of brain preblens cnd ralated

[PAGE 27]
rattero and hia recognleed ebility as a nerve spocialict.

Stame 45

2 Dre is a conmltant tot in physiology and redicine. Koro particularly, houever,-er is an experisentalist and resecrcher 1 of considcrable gbility and hes dcsigied a reat nun:er of instrurcnts thich aro bolicved to te of considerable interest to the Polyiraph Branch. Ho has built many diffcrent types of Plcythsymographs and devices for the reasurenont of the fleu of blood aud blood pressure. Hc Dr- is descrited as a ran of ¿reat imagination end a porson vho vould bo valuabio for Agescy use alcns lines of intsrest to us.

ec amos ard DR

7 Both of thaso nen aro consaltants to and are of considerablc interest to us. pis an inventor znd cesigner of spocial modical devices and has worked writh Dr sand others develcpina teccial ancsthotic devices. Sr. himself is the 2 5.1 randing doctor in anssthesiclesy at r is-écnier QCA p -Conntrtat)Accordiigto ., Der is in the process of clcaracc ncu.

As noted ahove, the visit to er vas, in tho opinien of the witor, very profitable, not so much for the fact thift the iiter was able to pick up new inferztien or nev chemicals b.t prirarily tecase of the particular enthusiasa end villinpess to co-operate shoai by tho indivicuals intervioved at In proposing the nases chove for clearencps, the iccas cears to to (thdis lns.thg vholricerted approval

[PAGE 28]
. and mpport of fer) ona Cherr mees phus the ioeiviteels contscted during thin trip Chould La cleared at. Ue Teo Teurcs leve) fer aaz tore of coatect or vork on a rrlerity brsis. Tis group vould thon fora a sort of pool of brain pouer or a nuclcus that'uould vork if rccaired on problens of Lntcrest to this Lgency. They would to a ready ruscrve future fully cleared Ln the event of/troublo that vould probably be extrcmely valuablo in recearch and in edzice.

Of particuler intercst is tho intorccmsunication cysten that is
oparating in . today- This is based upon a romarkable
pnewratic tube systen which covers the cntire areas and all buildings
and.vhich operates with great opeed and efficieney bevueen ihe lead
quartoro luildlngs and the other hsopitels and even to ∴ Cuhich is ever qne mle away. These tubes, nccording to Krr

[PAGE 29]
Taro vory pocuro and yery fast. Te,cccurity of tho tutes ia predicated on tho fect ir they aro taspered with or opèned, the tube ccases the areoss to fonetion. In r rb cpinien, this ceveloprent is cxtreraly useful and'vepy cafo and caves a groat murber of personnel and mich 2he 0m0 tire. Laacxplainnd that it is essential that caco historico, often bully docurents, sast te sont rapidly betveen the various hospitals and ruat novo irediatcly chead of a visiting docter. This is dene thrcuch the developsent of a fúghly cffective cntral comuication systen of pnownatic tubes, gravity pipes beteeen floors and eutonatic lifts for horizonal noverent. This central' cc=amications system cet-up is tho heart of tho adinistrativo operation ofsand related hospiiala In addition to the handling of documonts, X-rays, ete. through the tube .systera, is is alço extrcraly interesting becauso of the cenoral interecrmmnication techniques and thie sinole iastruuontation developed for rapidly locating individucls and for the bandling of the tronondoas mrber of pationts that fow through tho Srmand fospitals s who is the civiardireotsr se Lm atated to tho vriter, aftor the uriter had cxpressed admiratien and intorost in tho intorcon' systen,thiat he vould very gladly perit inspection and cxrinatien ef the systen by officials of this Agoncy and voula coe: operato in ey wey with the governrent if a study of the system would holp. This sauo cooperative attitude vas exprossed by H (Diector,octcel-bcicncos-ulldigt uho inforzod Keerite. t that they vould be velcozo agâin and questions concering the Eadloal Ssienece-Duilding having to do nith the adrinistration structure or vorking facilities of it veuld le nore fally and cosplotely explaincd at uny tire thoy so vished.

…

[PAGE 30]
m. 2--19

4. By u exsrenely umupusl co-incidenco, -(he-rmnufectarero-of-Lea)-tnd Teresuntativo.
1 mero viciting fer basiness reacens darins tho tuo-day

the ieitery requested that ho qestiened cencerning LSD md certain other reictei rattero. Those cenversations, reiucod te lo 2 simplest torns, roflect that rend any anonnt of LSD requirel fer oxçerirental rescarch end that

Apparently felt and was azticlied that this vas indicative of thoir on  c atbitudo and intoroso. ie also inferedi  Uhat ho vas cong to

the Nest Coast in tho noxt feu éays to at end a "est Coast Federation

?

[PAGE 31]
moting at Sea Fronelsco. zelro stated ho is gotg to bo at Atlantie Citr, lie Jersey, to attead the Arerican PsgchiatrleConvemtioa fron 9-13 ag.1955. It shoold also to noted that ártends to a crn eiral attend this coveatien zd further, for ratter of record, iir. Con" isjto attend the ccnveation and is chairson of ono of the groups,

Of particaler interest are the follcuing statcncnts vhich crose

Fon converaations betveen tho riter and Dr ansvers vere basod en his cwm vioas and his conversations with -Er. stated thatiwas intorested in the use of Qlorprezazine asan antaganist to LSD. Further had not tried conbination effcctssith LSD but they do intend to try. In adaitica, is vorking on Seratonin. . Seratenin is described as appareatiy an entagonist to LSD of the poripherol nsrves.

onen ien Of pertácular intcrest to the writer mas that madethe atatenent that Isp in a huron bedr after 2 5 T en r 5 coneontrated in the lirer the cf 2 then 15 is found in tho train end this disavsears extrc-ely yecidly. :

' Also of fact thrt Jadd the erphatic btateront thn is c and.can te.uced in aercrolo. in dacls end can be adzinistered thrcuh tho din. For matter of record, the vriter brought this up sevcral tires to take cortain to had heard+ statenants correctly. Tho vriter, hovever, being non-téchnical, did not M\~ devolop this ner press- for explenatiens nor did bo requout to devolop this there vith Dr.a It should be recalied thet Dras vell as others contacted csured tho writer they will attemt

[PAGE 32]
a eta emere to envier qeostioas put to thça in the feture end a. Shad iadicatod his villingness to convey any questions of this typo to thoso individals for soocifle cnsre. for soecifle cnsre.

biloves telking tith stated e prcnínent figure in Hollyuood whose nero vas not rontionod (andstated ho did not ask) had written to and ceked for a quantity of ISD stating he : vanted to uso it at a party. Satated was shocked at this and tarned it doum but subsequently learned this sare person in Eollyvrood had obtained LSD and also Foscaline (sources unizowa) and had used both in sos sort of punch at a porty 'and the psychotic effects and results vcre violent and terriblo. 1

NOTE: Tho writer folt that he could not press this any further -nor aok Dr-to Eo tack and attspt to obtain further 2027 . infornation fron b at this. tiso..otateo he vas curious as to the offects and vho had tho perty and vould try to pum this inforztion cut of Atlantic City in May.

NOlE: It.should be recalled that recontl5urote abook on tho effects of kescaline cnd is lmoulodgeable

ebeut LSD, and as far as the vriter luovs io living in Ilollyvood, California.

Theriter censiéered tìc idca of posing as a doetor at. 25 and intorvicwing sithbatabandened
the icea in vicw of the fact that ght pousibly to
cao suspicious if too dharp quostions xere asked censorning
LSD. vas deseribed by toth ins. -09 honcntond irtollt caà eeiontict

3

[PAGE 33]
Tn addlticn te the atovo,sthe fire ccatrol. syste of the nev buildincg.is vorthy of ctudy. As in rost zodern incustrial plants and in lerze rodern office buildings, fire control and fire reporting nignals are important. Thecbuildincs havo a very elaborato centrall controlled firo spottinz end firo signalling apporatus which is based on a central control panol in a special srca. Duplicato pancls are placed in stratogic points elscihere in theacoaplex to eid fire apparatus and aid anyene reporting or fishting fires. This contral panel also contains a great mzor of indicaters, dials, regulators for tenporature, air pressure, air conditiening, ctc. Mhile nct unique, this would nevertheless be vorthy of study of sny person visiting this area for the special reasons set out cbove.

Also of additionpl intcrest vas a l80-soat theater that vas
ppecially designed for lectures, movies, deronstrations or uhatover
. purpose roquired. It apparently is acccusticelly parfoct and by special arrangrent of the seats the stage (or things cn the stage) are clearly
visiblo from the seat area. It, of coursp, is equippod with tho latost .movic and sound devices and an ezcellent Pá systen. It is obvious that this Agency, if it noves into nev quartors, nust havs theators of this type built in and it is bolieved that a survey ef this thoator might.. bo valuablc for cur purposes.

Another iten which obvicusly shoulá bo of intcrest to Security 221 and to other elenonts of the Agoncy vas tho fact that prąctically/of mary tho vorking aroas cf the new buildiugs are equipped with essy difierent types of fecilitics Luilt in. For instance, in the rescarch areas, thera are plugs in the uall fer autozatic timing and thero are sockots for Bight end heavy poer. . There ero oxyçen corpressed air, high and lout

[PAGE 34]
J
preuoure -stcan, hot and cold iater taps and other cao catlets and thore
vero vechua tubes in reny placos as sirple wall outlets. Dis type of
viring and pipelng in the opinien of the vriter is also werthy of survey
sinco in higsly scnsitive areas in any nea tuilcing which this Ageney
must havo ocre of the these elements or tethods of instaliatica tdght be very inportant.

a pherias On Saturday, 9 April, the writer telked to-fr. sha pi iecethecle Univerre er tosphècl,botwecn 2:00 and 5:00 E. D as usual, vas nost co-oporative and again expressei his willingnoss to cs out any type of vark or testing that woule be possible unéer his presont circurstances. Ho stated that his verk precluded crhaustivo roseerch but folt that those veopens ("truth serun" and poychogenic choriccls as intolligenee veapons) vcre cnes that required a croat. deal noro tiro and attontion than anyono he lmov or had placod in thes to date. . le statod at the presont time his cririnal vork (Director of Seczrity at the eies slacking off because nas not in goed health and because certein people at the éristsity regerced the use of tho "éruth soruno technices, cven for crindnal casos, musuitablo as a Gnirer aity function. (Gther cources indicate cis in bad ropyte ct the né Zari versiby and ray be discharged.)

D a scid he had deno a fev rore cases and his. rosults had Hs stesria
becn good as far as the police vere concerned: () stated at the
present tiro he cither used scopalonine intravenouply at the boginmning ef
the techniie or seconal. Tlioreafser, ho uces pentethal isvediately or at

[PAGE 35]
least vithin the nect ten nínutes. le said ho consldared this, safo and it hau produeed satisfactory recults as far as he vas concerned. stated ho hadl net had a chanco to test cut- Chlorprenazino vith pentothal and felt this should bo done. lie also sugcasted that wo exazire a nev El Lilly cherical Valazin or Valarid.

'stated Le had interest in this vork,. thero voro an infinite
mumber of chardcals to bo tried and in his opinion (stated to tho writer pre
viovoly) an EEo rachino was essential to this operation. stated in
in the near future, he vas to have an EE0 nachine for the anesthesiology
dopartzont at the hospital fer their sole use snd with this ho could and
vould tost in a lirited vay if we vould sond chcnicals of interost to ug
with proper spporting infonntien. Ths plei the pheiirn statedtiat we dheuld exarine a new cherlcal called NiPl3 uhich has been develeped by an Aurtrtlian in Australia by the naro of. Dr. a (faa). de desoribed this chaiical as a specific antaconist to ths barbiturates end he has boen attorptiis to obtáin tho chenical fron Dr . Ee stated had pronísed to sond sose of the è cherical to prposes and rstated he Leuld vork vith At when it arrived and keèp us inforned. In this connection ho stated thes3 thpre was an article appcarine in the LlicEr of Janmary 1955 and the LRITISH JeJiAL, January. 1955, céncering tEis nen. chorical Dr statod that some tire ago he hsd attended a convantion in
the East, apparontly Rew York City, at mich R plesecan
7 vas precont. stated he laov oi à vork in aneuthesiolezy
and xz that he has, of ccurse, sopected that Esvas engeging in vor':

[PAGE 36]
aloar"truth sene" linea. lo strted thabinvited ldz up to l rooa and that a dlccussien vas held duing uhichzs askod

askee, "llou did you keu atout that?" and apçarcatly denied veridng on it.  told "I can read betveen the linos" and wen he presced thecbject,eryorently told he had another cen-

fercncc to attend and icdiately Ieft the room. In thio ccuncction, it H7o phoaan Ne -üse zcíey is interesting to noto that r stated that vas generally re-Te Rioseeon gardod as a"pansy"by enesthesiclogisfwho keuhin but said did not male a paso at hin, altheughtkemrked that

lo othor details along this line vera doveloped.

He pdeecan suggested that the following nros te placed in tho Ageney
confidontial filea: le stated ono presuzatly, a doctor, did 2
not havo his contract renéved at the-Univerviey Es boccuse he is 2.-
epparently a Corranist. Ee statod that cso Mas thon he lev at te
Univereity and aloo a doctor, hed rofised to go E to the
Vetcrans Acrinistration to accopt a position becacse ho bad to sigl an cath. en Divrsugegestod that Dea S,feea-or-theadicel
Echool ef-the-University of-a vas a vory hith type of person and 4
chould bo-cloarod for cantcet. thought Thad som
sort of governzent clearance enyway.

For the record, it should te noted thot post of the iscussion cencarnod the pieinan mattora previcusly taken up with Chand uhich bare 'been reported Ts plevieèn provioucly. As stated, was extrecoly cc-operativo and offered lis cerviccs

[PAGE 37]
ttke in wny way ho,coulá lo of help to us. In this.conmecbien, à pointed out that his vife had died suddenly lant fall and since he has no children he had not yet rettled en hls irrediato futuro having several offers for vork ejscihere phich he vas considoring. Ha repoated that if ve vould E sond hin any chezicalo with the necessary information for thoir use he vould te claa to make lirited tests uith thea along linos of intcrost to us. Hle reçuested ve fonnard infaration on Seratonin to hin and also sond hin vhat raterial vas available on the work that Dr- kasras doing Tfir. ih caaveerar at . vas acqueinted vith soro of the literature on LS
but told tho siter he had not vorked with'it exparimontally or in ciy of his clinical caces. Ho recognissd its extreme intorest fron a poychogenic
point of vieu end sugccsted it roqcired exporirentasion, perticularly vith. other chemicals.

The phesier Nore: In tho iter's épinion, we should forvard to-E cortain choricals for his stucy and uso but ve shoold not go mich boyond this at the presant tiro. The triter feels that loss of his wife moy, at the pronont timo, still te too fresh in his nind fcr hin to become iavolvod in vork of a the pdusinir highly sansitivo nature. lhilo it is cbvious that-ir. vas roady and villing to co-operate tith us and in a srall vay vo should sond his soro ratorial, the tritor feels that 4 extcnsive comitrents should not be rade to hin or sonsitive natorial chould not be sont to hiu nou.

73.

The vriter spent Naster Sunday afterncon, 10 April and part of Uhat

[PAGE 38]
a
ovenine telldeg slth N discussed tho preposed vork
at end stuted as uoon as clearances caso thrcugh tho cntiio cperation
would legin. lo soamed very enthusiostic about it and inforod the tritor
his tean vas interested and ready to go. lie stated that ir thoy vero not
overshel-ed by red tape or sisdirected, they cheld produce extrorly valu
able inforratien fron cither a nogative or positive point of vicw. Ro
statedya yas an extrezely erillient ren and vas canablo of

70an on his net trip through arrenge a conference vith MPuas censtantly worising with and cqerirenting with nou. and unusuel cheaicals and corbinations and the writer should talk to and brief his on nev chaziccls and nsu areas of interest since idens vovld bz valuablc.

Fls still very strongly orionted ia our direction and his enthusinon mndionarg are vorthy ef ccmnt. ás is vell Imoum, his police connoctions and other cennctions in the C are vory mide and importont and it is felt that irrespecbive of the opcration foe chonld bo coastantly held as an so conoultant in coso of Ml future zocd.

The mritor inforned eyhçn be left hin that he veuld nake arrengements on his naxt trip to the area to sit doum with to disouss in detail the various angles of intorest to the ARTICiok vork and its relation to the-Projoct.

unplopies.

On londay, 11 April, betzeen 2:00 end tproxi-atoly 5:00 F in tho

[PAGE 39]
ff\* efteroon, the witer talked to Niycolegy-at-tho-Univerolty.of. tho is regarded by rany kñouledgeablo indivicuals as protebly tho custanding ryeologist in the Ünited States, if not tho vorld, teday. . avas exmrezely ce-operative and surprised the writer tz esidng aftor the general sabjoct had been introdiced, tby tho very fertilo ficld fo tozic rushrcons had not Leen further cxplored -Lrr le fssid ho vas vell. avaro of the fact that there grow in the Sovict Union ruskeoons thot vero toxde and tho literature contained rary exaples ef the Russiano, particularly the prinitive Siberian trites, using mshroons as intadcants.

Mhe si? The writor shoved ErCathe very extonsive list of quosticas and deceand cii tri nazos of varicus mashrcoms which had sont vith tho writor. D cxairod the list and stated that ths list vas eccurate and interesting but stoted there vere liter thessands of mekroons in the abevt United Statos en of zhich ve kaos nothing and hanared ef vlich are tode. Ho, slated if vork vere to be done along these linos, those mpocies that oxist in the V.S, and Canada should be studied firzt. Ho staicd that the taiciiy or chemical content of the mustroen is not in his field and this vonld roquiro a phezacologist er chesict plus careful resoarch. He urged, however, that this vork be carried on.

Me ke 一E。 k sbated that this surnor he vas foing to take a field trip collccting opocinons Antomerthernfuchisan and stated he would bo very glad to collcct and proservo epecinns for us. lie stated ho vould dó this Crco tut if cxtansivo colloctions vere tò bo carried cut, a aull mum of roncy vould bo necded to hire ascistants to help his collect (paolably noveral kundred dollars vould bo sufficient). He said he vould rako the 1- po

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positivo identificatiens and direçt tho rcscarch for us. thcá stated in l956 he vao toking e fiftoea montha Meld trip vorking in vestern U.S. (California dnd iuget Sound areas) on a ;12,C00 grent fros tho Lirand stated ho coulh't sce thy vo couldn't bo included in a rant of this Lind and vhy ho coulda't collect raterial of interest to us on this ficld trip. In dovelopins his ideas of vork on ways he could assist this Ageney he felt tofore anvthine elss shculd be donoand certainly before ho leaves fer cunr vork this year, scroore fron tho A-eney ontiroly fa-iliar vith mcchroors and whe underotands the problcrs involred techrically should visit hin. Re stated bo weuld to Elad to sit doum and ciscnss the catire probles with that indivicual. asd wbu velcoze icoas and thcughts along lines of interest to us.

then steted emphatically to tho riter that ho fegarded the follouing as a rttor of extreze intelligenco irportaaco. le stated that from his stucy of mishrcons and froz his kouledge of Soviet ectivities along theco lines ho is ccmplotoly convincsd the Soviets aro attorpting to produes later or rubbor fron mushrosns. le ptated specifically thas tho Bulceria Rafa has a rubbery fruiting body cnd he believed that the USiR was intorested in this mushrocn for rubber. He stated in addition . to thus thet tho Lactaria group ef rushroons doinitoly had laiox in its boáy and 'that he kew that the Sovicts uould bo interested in this ¿roup. lie pointed to the fact that if tho-Soviot Union was able to dgvelop strains of those mushrcons that could te crom i:. vats or indoors or wndor ccntrolled circurotances and could core up with a wsy of ceveloping Lhis succossfully, thoy uould have a source of crude rubber and it was his quoss they are doing exctly that. He utated that this ums extrenely inportant. le sugosted th

[PAGE 41]
that Dr. of the Lotaticol Inctitets of the Univoisity at vas an outstanding rgeologist rad would lanou guito well of U.S.S.R. ectivitios in this field. Ho stated he did not-knou the pelitical oricntation of iz. stat he dicald be centacted if possible. :2 callad attontion to earecem Lomark. had worked uith his at cne tiro and vas a capable rycologist but undoubtodly a Gorunist. €! n nddition to this, said le vas now convinced govermzint was studying and collocting mshroons, not for agriculture reasons, but for othor reasons. He stated up antil a fos years ago there Vhe fvekil cortonint vas no interest in in mushroens oven thoughthey grou there abundantly. Be stated nos thore ise tranch of the Dopartment of Agriculturo that is vory sctive in thia ficld and stated this dopart-7 zent is hecded by uho ia capábls rçcclogist and taxonomist. Ee statod it was of particuler interest to hin because a young lady had, béen so t by fron the Departroat of Agriculturo to sork during tho peoeding auner u 纪 This yowng lady, whon sregarded ès vory capable, vas asked ay-Éwhy ohe vas zorling with his in and not lookding for mustrocrs in northern To young lecy replied that. is not ry branch, othcrs are coverinz those areas: This indicated to- that extcasivo vork vas boing dore alona thesc lincs in urged that we cleer be HRCTA 1: -of the Univorsity os He stated is a relistle Acorican citizon, a very capablo nyeelogist and highly recczmends hin, Hle called attention to tho fact that the Puget Sound area centains a Crcat rany toxic

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madhroora ineluding ranyAadnita Panthcrina. 0\~1!s Drrurged that tha

LGellego be cleared end higly recorzonded hin as an excellent rycologis fhe ceror rher ápointod out that thero vere many vell-knom and reny unkoun toxie mushroons exdstins botueen' Flerida and Texas andwas ecquaintod

Hth Lhis territory intimtely. a 71 2 2ohe uho is an offieer D zrequested that vo check out -èr Re stated this
of the

orgarization, of uhich ho kev nothing, is of oxtrens intorest to hin becarco Erwwwohad approached hin in comnection vith a rubbor-prodicing rushroen Dry roquested that¿r- 一 Directer-of-tha University of 1

: éshould be advised cf it althovgi net necossarily in'detail. Dn hit srui:ran. 2 stated ho lni Caho is nou vorking at etatcd is a capablc rveolegist but his politicel

background is dabious, probably Coamuustie. a Seesn Eloo of interest is the fact that Ns Dr the ae
hin cencerinz rusrocrs producing psychegenic effects. Soaid he
vas quito polite to but had to toll hin as he tola the writer thet
tho fiold wao cnormous and roquircd a mch moro specific appreach befere Hhe senden
he could help. said he did  not lnow tut froa Lho
naturo of the conversatien, he felt thet esvas beginning a study
of mushrcons having peychozenic effec

FI

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He pesceben è steted ho hed-toon cotinç-muhróons all hlo lifu and ho had hed uchroosa riko hia tick, make hin dizsy, destroy his coordination, aid orimataiien anc, in fact, act upen hin in alrost every vay except klll lin. He stated ko had tested zstrcers of al varioties and ru across nincrous ruthroons that kad mary pental and physical effectu.. Lo gavo exerples ef pooplo having cetea reskroona and falling-frer bicycles nd he and his iifo nfter eating Verpa Bcheria, a all vild spring varioty, spparently native tou had had their vical cccniination coletoly upset end ho hinself after ccting thás radlroon had walked into a vall viilo tryinc to walk through a door. Beczuso of tHhoso, statod this uhole field should be cxplored. le acein reitoratoi that ho hieself was not in a position to neke chesdcel tests or pharmmcological testo en mashroons lut he could collect asd icontify rusreens alcng linos vhich vero of interest to us anxd he would do so if preperly reçuested and tha necessary teclnical errengemnts wera rade with hin.

ghoald bo takien vp prelably with .t cnee. hile the uriter hac ro
konlodgo of the Ageney's cennoctions vit nd the vriter reeerends that fall.
ho ia certat: ach cone s

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advantago ba taen of the fificen ponth coliectiig trip that Drg-clri uiii wdertako Ln W56 for the ad the-Vnivereity