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1. delivered the conics ofd nemorandun of July llth to the respectivor The fellowing, corumonts while not intended to anticipate their'formal reply may have some interim value.

a. of the Pstated that he saw little difference tetveen 'the application of fundamental research to the defensive or the offensive aspects of fluebird. This is, in a large nensure, due to the fact thot so little is known concerning the actual effectiveness or action of various drugs.

lie stated that esehas ncw spent nearly one yeer at the workingwith &smaond that he has started on a projoct which will keon him thore for another period of at least cne year. stated he wes convinced thatrrwswewas recoiving extensive traininc in poychiatry and probably for some specific purpose. gat. the. qutaet of our, meeting. introluced me brierlv to akia the successor toseense on many projects,tesessg has at tempted to find out irom alrrjust whafe is doing ate .He thinks his lack of success is due to the fact, that Petoes not know.es hopesto fird out the purposc of a training from the a in the next week. I reievant to our interest he has promised to inform us.

b. ao stated thct be vould cither sond us a copy of the directive signod by the Freea three years ago which initiated the Bluebad Projects within theteeror he may paraphrase certain portions of it in the licht of the acccmplishments of the last fou years.  stated that he believed that effective blocking is possible only through indoctrination. There is, in Hts ovinion. no drug ur hypnotic condition which is effective.svoluntecred the fact that he regularly comes ove" to TIA to hold irioctrinations of personnel vio have vital informtion and yet vhosc dutics place Uliem in a position where thcy may fall into enemy hands.

stated that he was not going tn distribute tho cctivities in ezprs prior to his arrest. ile feit that dpstribution of such infonation wes more properly the function of thert 0-:5

agaof teaoremised te enser the comoranda apparently has somo knowledge of the Rluetird rroject is and has hoen on leave ever since he rcceived the folder referred to in the memcrandum of 5 July 1951. ic at tho present time working as a civilian in thc

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A|8, 4, 2014 11 July 1951

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