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\_1. On Wednesday, 3.Decemher 1952; the writer discussed with the possibilities of his becoming associated with the Artichoke work.overseas. Prefused'this association. Details follow.

2. In view of previous knowledge of the Artichoke work in general and in view of his exceptional background, the writer talked with for some time concerning the problem of interrogation and intplligence before actually getting into the discussion concerning the Artichoke problem.- The writer felt thay should be given the opportunity to study the prohlems thoroughiy tefore any direct questions were put. to him and, because o{ this, the writer pointed out the ramifications of the work, the experimental nature of the techniques and why remarkable talents (linguistic, technical and intelligence) are ideally suited for our work. After this general discussion, the wriler advanced the proposition to concerning the possibility of association-with the Artichoke program as a repular employee. Set out below, in suhstance, are the answers nave to the writer's questions:

3. statedl-ihat, under no circuastances, would he accept permanent or Tvll-time cmployment. with this Agency, or any other Agency, exceptin the event of a national or war-time emergency.

. He would not take his wife and children to He stabed that he had stuck his neck out too'many times already and he felt that he would be best operating alone and on some specific assignment if the-Government actually-needed him.

5. stated-that at any tim, under any circumstances involving a specific case whefe his services could possibly be of value, he would assist'us on a mpment's notice. He stated he would be wiiling to go anywhere in the world and work on any specific case, hut long-time employment was not suilablc. He pointed out that at the present. time he is writing, and has just recently sold an article to tho Tor which he reccived \$1500.(0. He stated that nd they are making a comfortable living. He stated he had just roupht ihe home ir And he intends to ulttmately move to and buy a f'arm. He stated he expecis his citizenship within thirty days and sometime thereafter his wife

Office MeMurandUm . UNITED STATES GC.ERNMENT

DATE: 4 December 1952

Repont of Conversation.

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will obtain hers. He staled thai. hr wanted to m-ke it. clear that money was no consideration to work on a full-time basis for us tut, in the future, he intended to te his own boss and to work and travcl as he saw fit. Stated that at the presont timo he is associated with the Tand is constantly engaged in doing work along psycho-neurotic lines, using both hypnosis and drugs to obtain the effects he desires. He stated that in this work he is associated with mimerous psychiatrists.and has good connections in this field at (as mentioned above), and at tho He stated he knew many psychiatrists who are doing advanced work alcng Artichoke lines and he would be very glad to assist Artichoke or obtain information for.the Artichoke work if that could be arranged.

6. The writer, in view of alents and contacts, suggested that. perhaps he might te interested in being a covert consultant for the Artichoke work and possitly carrying out experimentation or making observations that would be of interost to us. stated that he definitely would enjoy doing this work and he would travel anywhere necessary if he could he of service to us in such matters. It should be noted that the writer did not make an offer to but merely asked whether or nct he would be interested in this type of association with the Agency.

7. The writer did not attempt to pressurc An any way and it is the writer's impression that was entircly honest and frank with the writer in this discussion. The writer informed thnt he would take up thc question beinr a covert. consultant with his superiors and would keep in touch with in the future ty correspondence.

at the conclusion of the day's discussion, stated thathe regretted that he felt es he did,tut that would be his final answer in this matter. He again .emphatically stated that if he could be of servicé at any time, anywhere, on a specific case, he would drop anything he"was doing and plachis services at the disposal of the Agency.