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Office MeMOrandu5/3 • UNITED STATES GOVERNMEN 55

TO aAast. Daaty Direetor (Alain), 1as

DATE: .APR 2515)

FroM :Assistant Director for Scientific Int:lligence

sunjeCT:Conversations with Dr. yaemge

1..A of the  held a cocktail party at his hone on the ovenins of 23 April to introduce Dr.sSstszr and Dr.etofs. These centlezen aro in the city prinarily for a meeting called by AEc about analytical detection equipment. sations, Dr tu asked to have three or four minutes for private conversation, and we retired to the library.

2. Dr.  asked what was happening in CIh on the subject very close to his heart of special interrogation nethods; said that he had heard fron sonebody in CiA, probably froa one of the covert shops, that gsm had assuned leadership of the progran. He said that if. CIA did not plan to devolop the progran aggressively, he felt it wes so important that he was planning to take personal steps within the and asked if he,  would be willing to talk with Hrd and myself. The answer was in the affirnative. I also asked Kachle if he felt that the first thing that should be done in this progras vas to put out a word of warning to the Department of Defense on the defonsive aspects, and if so, what sort of warning should be given. He said that he wouid like to think about it and would be glad to talk about it at the time thatysesand doas sar him.
et.1

3.  has been toes recently, perhaps on to trips, and kows sonething.about the nethods that the Chinose are using for uniforned personnel. He knows of no use of drugs or hypnosis, but has received reports on the use of duress. He says that there are formal Army reports on the subjects.

h.With your concurrence I will ask Dr.uss to talk with Dr. Ers early in the progran. I am sure that Dr. gerss nould apnreciate any briefing that you mày wish to tivo hin about the scope of these conversations.

5. On an entirely different subjeet, and divorced from the convercation with Dr.st have you given any thought to the prograa that should be plannod for the dobriefing of lr. Vogeler, should he becone avuilable in the near future?