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1. ofth hold a cooktail party at his home on the evaning of 23 Aprll to introduce anda These gentlemen are in the city primarlly for.a moeting called by bout analytical detection'equiprent. Amonc the guegto rera During the infornal conver Bationo, Eskod to have threo or four mimutes for privato conversation,and we ratired to the library.

T.asked what was. happening in CIA on the. subject very olose to his heart of.spocinl intorrogation methodsj said' that be 'had haard from somobody in CIA, probably froa one of,the covart shops thatio Thad assumed leadership of: the progran.Fe said. that ir Oll did not plan to dovalop the progras agcressively, hefelt it was so'lmoartant that be was planning to take porsonal atopa within the I told hin of the solection of and asked if hep would be willing to talk ydth and mysel The anower was. in the affirmative.I also àskedn Apif.he felt that the first thirig that should be done in this program ws to put out a word of. warning to tho on tho defcnsive aspects, and, if so, what sort of warning should be givon. lle said that he would like: to think about it and would be clad to talk about it at the tise that sar bim.

13 has been torecentlze perhaps on twotripa, and kowa sonething about the mothods that the Lare using for uniforued parsonnel. He koows of no.use.of drugs or hypnosis,but has roccived repor on tie use of duress.  He snys thatthere are formal roporto on tho subjecta.

lewith your conourrenco I. will asi to talk with early in the program. I am sure that would appre ciate any brioling. that you may:wieh to. give hin about the. Bcope of. these conversations " On an entirely different subject, and divorced fron tho conver eation witit have you Eiven any thoueht to the prorras that should be plannod for. the debriofing.of should he becomo availlable in the naar future?

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