Best pins outthere
just the right size to hold the bun with 4-6 pins for medium length thick hair.  Very sturdy.  won't see the pins - 2.5&#34; is the best length i find.  I wish  pins had the round plastic tips on ends, so I dont' poke my daughter every time i make her bun.  The ends are kind of sharp, if you make a bun on yourself, you could feel it, but it's hard when you make it for someone else...
Rating: 4 stars