157-10014-10047
2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992
JFK Assassination Syston
Identification Fana
Date
4/29/201
Agency Information
ACENCY:
SSCLA
RECORD NUMBER:
157-10014-10647
RECORD SERIES: HEARINGS
AGENCY FILE NUMBER: 07--05
Document Info
ORIGINATOR
SSCIA
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CLASSIFICATION:
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CURRENT STATUS:
DATE OF LAST REVIEW:
OPENING CRITERIA :
COMMENTS:
05/06/1970
08
CASTRO FIDEL.
OPERATION MONGOOSE
JMWAVE
CIA
TRANSCRIPT
Unclassified
Consulted
Withhold
02/26/1998
Box 2
vēt.
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D-Subject
The United States Scitute R3014
Senate
Report of Proceedings
3/2/27
SNVINTERMED
Hearing held before
Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental
Operations With Respect to Intelligence Activition
Thursday, May 6, 1976
Washington, D.C
(Stenotype Tape and Waste turned over
to the Committee for destruction).
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WARD & PAUL
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ARLINGTON, VA 22301
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"CONTENTS
TESTIMONY OF
Robert G. Halley
--accompanied by--
John Rigall and
Seymour R. Bolten
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EXECUTIVE BESSION
Thursday, May 6, 1976
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United States Senate,
Select Committee to Study Governmental
Operations with Respect to
Intelligence Activities,
Washington. D. C.:
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:40 o'clock
.., In Room 608, the Carroll Arms Hotel, the Honorable
Richard S. Schweiker presiding.
Present: Senator Schweiker (presiding).
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also present:
Jim Johnston and Paul Wallach, Professi
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PROCEEDINGE
Senator Schweiker. I guess we will swear you in, so if
you will stand up and raise your right hand, do you solemnly
swear the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, no help you God?
name?
Mr. Halley. Yes, I do.
Senator Sclivaiker.
Ba seated.
Mr. Johnston. Would you state for the record your full
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TESTIMONY OF ROBERT G. HAGLEY
ACCOMPANIED BY JOM RIGALL AND SEYMOUR R. BOLTEN
Mr. Halley, My name is Robert G. Halley.
Mr. Johnston. And I understand that is an alias and your
true identity will be preserved by the Agency.
Mr. Halley. That is correct.
Johnston.
Mr. Bolten, would you state your full, mans?
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Mr. Bolten.
Seymour Bolten, Seymour R. Dolton.
Mr. Johnston. And John, the alias you are testifying
under?
Mr. Riwall,
John Rigall, -----
Mr. Johnston.
And Mr. Bolten and Mr. Rigal, would you
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state youx capacity in this session today?
Mr. Bolt
1 an chief of the Review Staff of the CT.
and responsible for dealings with the Senate Select Commit
Mr. Rigall. I am Special Assistant to the DDD, sifting:
in here as an alternate monitor.
Mr. Johnston. And the diucession that has taken place
prior to going on the record today basically has resulted i
decision to have. Mr. Bolten and Kr. Rigall attend as monitor
to this session, and do you understand that, Mr. Halley?
MC. Halley. Yes, I do,
Mr. Johnston. Mr. Halley, what was your capacity with
Agency in November, 19639
Mr. Halley. In November, 1963, I was the Chief of Sta:
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of the CIA operation that was based in Miami, Florida, targeted
as its primarily responsibility for the Cuban operation.
Mr. Johnston, Mr. Wallach has reminded me to remind you of
a procedural mattor which, you understand you have the right
to counsel.
MC. Halley. Yes, I do.
Mr. Johnston. And you understand you have a right not to
answer questions if you don't wish to, or not to answer questioiis
until you consult with Counsel, is that correct?
Mr. Halley. That is correct.
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Mr. Johnston.
And you are appearing here voluntarily
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without cousal.
Mr. Halley. that is correos.
Mr. Johnston.
And going back to substantive questions..
long did you remain as: Chief of Station?
What were the dates of your service?
.:
Mr. Halley. Well, I arrived, or became involved in the
Cuban operations in the early 1962, and I stayed there unti
approximately June of 1965..
Senator Schweiker. What month again in 627
Mr. Halley, Early '62. I didn't give you the montti
Senator, because I originally came down to Florida to conduét
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a survay of this operation to see what possibilities could
carried out. In terms of the collection of intelligence.
later filed a report on it, and I was later assigned down
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Senator Schweiker.
And this was called JMWAVS, was it?
Mr. Halley. That is the cryptonym that the Agency used
for the Miami station.
Senator 8Chweiker..
And to whom in that chain of command
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at the CIA did you report when you were the operating head?
There were different people at different
Mr. Halley.
tines. When I first went to miami, the task force commander wal
Mr. William Harvey. He reported then to the DDP, who reported
to the Director of Central Intelligence. At a later point in
the operation, Mr. Harvey moved on to other tasks, and Mr.
Fitzgerald became the chief of that particular unit, and th
after Mr. Fitzgerald, Mr. Hart was the head of that
particular unit.
And between Harvey and Pitzgerald, I think there was n
short period of time when a fellow by the name of Bruce Che
was the acting chief of that particular unit, or the chief.
I have forgotten the exact arrangement there.
Senator Schweiker. Sometime during this period
change its title from Task Force W to 5, is that corr
or not correct, oz do I have in mixed up
Mr. Halley. By recollection of that chronology wa
it was first called SAS and then became Task Force W, and
became integrated back into Division; which was the Waste
Hundsphere Division.
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Sepator Schweiker. SAS preceded Task Force W
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Mr. Halley.
Yea.
That's off the top of my head.
That's
my recollection of it.
Mr. Johnston.
Just for the record, I think it was the
other way around. Task Force was first and SAS was second.
Senator Schweiker. But in sum and substance your duties
were basically the same, whether it was Task Force W or SAS.
under Harvey and Fitzgerald, was that not true?
Mr. Halley.
Well, I think you have to break this period
up into two phases, Senator. The early phase, 1962, was
focused on coming up with an appraisal of what kind of an
operation could be ran against Cuba in the context which ex
at pha to, in other words, after the Day of Pigs, after the
post mortems. had been conducted. The Administration at the ti
decided that they wanted to take another look at Cuba as a
intelligence and national security problem.
Wherefore,
assessment was to be made in the early period of time as to
what kind of an operation could be run in pursuit of 0.5.
policy objectives, which was to see if Fidel Castro's.
gover could be removed. And when that asessment wha
conducted as to what kind of intelligence operations could
conducted, what kind of paramilitary or other operations cour.
be on, that was an initial phase, and that phase was approv
and put into effect, but as that operation was being put Luto
*ffect the missile crisis cine vpon us, so that that was wi
really carried to its logical conclusion because the operacio
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then shifted.
Senator Schweiker.
After October of '622
Mr. Halley.. No, prior to October of '62, because the
Cuban crisis was in October of '62, but the buildup preceded
It, and our operations which were collecting intelligence in
Cuba detected this buildup as it was unfolding. Therefore,
the national priority became now how do you take action against
Fidel Castro, but what is the nature of this soviet buildup.
And therefore the operation changed.
Then after the Cuban missile crisis of October of 1962,
11 the problem became one of monitoring the Soviet disengagement
from Caba, and then there was another phase after that whon
the Soviets were out, Castro wan clearly recognized as the
established power in Cuba, and the problem became one of
looking at pubs in the context of was there some other way tu
get a political change in Cuba other than by military action
or by paramilitary action. In other words, the emphasis.....
shifted to looking at the Castro military establishment to
see it a coup could be pulled from within, to see if economi
pressures could be put on the Castro regime.
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So the tasking of this particular unit did change, and
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change of nuances and degrees during this period, but in
professional sense it was focused on the Cuban targets.
in that sense you are correct, bus it did go through various
changes as events changed.
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Senator Schweiker.
What was the relationship of your
station and your assignment to General Lansdale? What role
did he play?
Mr. Halley. Wall in the early days, in the early period
of 1962, General Lansdale was a member of a group that was
looking at the basic problem of what could be done against the
Cuban activity. This came up in one of my previous conversations
with Mr. Baron.
Senator Schweiker. Are you talking about something we
call Operation MONGOOS6, are we talking about Special Group
Augmented, or what are we talking about?
Mr. Halley. Well, when I first cand into this activity
In 1952, the principal people that seemed to be involved with
it at that time were Robert Kennedy, General Lansdale, Dick.
Helms, and William Harvey, and the group of Kennedy, Lansdal
and lelas were providing, if you will, the guidance and the
direction as to where this thing should go in the early days..
Shortly after the operation was established and I was
in Miami, Lansdale seems to have faded out of this particul
picture, and I was not involved in the Washington nuances t
this, so I am not clear as to exactly what was the reason for
his departure from this particular scene.
Senator Schweiker. And was that - do you remember the
exy Operation Mongooses
Mr. Halley, I've heard the cryptonym Operation MONGOOS1,
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but that didn't impact on my life at that particular time.
Senator Schweiker.
All right.
Mr. Johnston. Moving to the time of the Kennedy
Resassination, were you Chief of Station and in Miami when
the President was assassinated?
Mr. Halley. Yes, I was the Chief of Station and I was
In Miami,
22nd,
Mr. Johnston. You were physically in Miani on November
Mr. Halley. Yes, I was.
Mr. Johnston, Did you receive any orders through CIA
channels to conduct an investigation in any fashion Tato the
59#*ssination of the President?
Mr.Halley,
Well, my recollection of that was that we
had requests for name traces at the time that Oswald was
arrested, and that was our contribution to the investigation.
ME. JohnsŁÓM. Dif you receive any order in the form ei
a cable or any other fashion to conduct an Investigation?
A. Halley. * don't recall receiving on, but if you
showed me a cable, I woeld have to comment on it. In other
words this was in 1963, This is 1976, and as you know from Ry
record, I've been in an awful lot of high voluae projects s
blint sine, and I don't think it is likely that I would recal
à specific cable, you know, on a particular day. I mean, 1
have been in Berlin, baos, Vietnam. My life has been active,
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therefore I do not recall a spacific cablo. If you've got #
cable, I'd be glad to comment on it.
Mr. Johnston. Well, I don't have one, and I'm asking you
whether one would exist.
Mr. Halley,.. I don't secall one.
Mr. Johnston: And your judgment would be that there was
not a cable ordering an investigation.
Mr. Halley I can't say that.. I can only say that I
don't recall one, but I do recall that at a later point, once
Osvald was detained by the police and there was some Investí–
gative materia), emanating from that, we participated. In
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from Washington, because I do recall that at the time that
the name: braces were conducted, that one of the Cuban group:
that we were in touch with at DR, they did come up with a
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cape of a debate which had taken place between Oswald and
member of the DRE in New Orleans, and you know, that sort of
sticks in my mind as an event of that particular time.
commented on it, and as I recall, forwarded the tapes to
And
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Washington,
Senator Schweiker... That was Bringdier's group, was.
not?
Mr. Halley. That was the DRE, the Direccion Bavoluzio
Senators Schweiker. Wasn't Curios Brinquier
I'm pronouncing is wrong, involved in that, and wasn't ho
mayb
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associated with you folks at that time?
Mr. Halley.
Well, I don't recall that specific name.
Senatory at this time.
We did have a relationship with the bRg. We did dent
with a number of their tog Teaders.
Mr. Johnston- Let me come back to that later.
Did you receive any orders not to investigate an area,
or not to conduct an investigation of any kind?
W
Mr. Halley. No, I don't recall receiving any coch orders.
Mr. Johnston. At this time period, November 22ndy.
November 23rd, 1963, what was your capability in regard te
Conducting an investigation among Cuban exiles, and with Coba
sources?
Mr. Halley.. Well, in relationship Co Cubans living in
the United States, I would way that our capability was
good.
Now, if you are referring to our capability to conduct
an investigation in Cuba, i would have to way it was limited.
have to know where specifically you are rotorring to..
other words, if you're talking in the água ms
2. Johnston. West I'm talking domestically of Cuban
exiles in the United States, and your answer is
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Mr. Johnson.
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Mr. Malloy. That it would have been quite good.
Secondly, with regard to collectin
Intelligence us to possible Cuban involvement
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Mr. Halley.
Mr. Johnston.
From Cuba or in ciba?
Any other source.
Mr. Halley. Well, if you're talking about collecting.
information in Cuba
Mr. Johnston: I ca
Mr. Malley. It would then have to be focused specifically
on different geographic areas. In other words, as an
example, if you told me I want some information on a specific
town in the province of Pinar del Rio, that probably was
within our capability at that time because we had a rather
extensive network in Pinar del Rio. If you had said to me,
you know, in that same time the on this day, I want you to
conduct a kind of an investigation in the province of Cama
I probably would have had to say, you know, we're not as well
equipped, because our coverage varied from province to provi
Mr. Johnston. Did you have sources and I mean specif
JNWAVE station, did JMWAVE station control sources in Cuban
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intelligence?
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I don's recall that we had any staff
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in the Cuban intelligence service under our control.
Have been involved in some double agent operations at that tư
but certainly we did not have a staff officer penetration of
the Cuban services.
We may
Mr. Johnston.
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old you ever receive any rders to cont
whatever your contacts were in the Cuban intelligence, to
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inquire about the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr. Halley, I don't recall receiving any auch instruct
old that I OGMC to you on you* OWN?
Mr. Halley. Well, I think as you probably see from 8054
of the traffic, we did come up on our own with samplings of
opinion, what was happening in the Cuban community. We were
reporting what was coming out of Cuba in terms of information
brought by, you know, refugees, material that was being made
available through people corresponding and so forth, yes, we
were sensitive to that particular problem.
Mr. Johnston, But did you affirmatively go out and
seek the information from sources: if Cuba?
Mr. Halley. well, to the extent that this was available
If you're asking **
eid we send an SW massage and task a specific agent to
conduct an investigation, or did we send them a radio message
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to us, you know, we had lots of agents.
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or something like that, I don't recall one.
Mr. Johnston. Why didn't you do that?
Hr. Halley. My recollection of this is that we felt
that the nature of our capability was to simply respond to
What we were able to obtain in the Miami area, and from bu
sources in a passive way, because this was an investigation
that was being conducted in the United States with the primai a
reuponsibility with agencies other than CIA.
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Mr. Johnston.
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I guess I don't quite understand the snow!
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because the C2A did have responsibility and certainly the
capability to collect information from foreign countries.
* Walley. Well, we had no reason at the particular time
to feel that there was any kind of a case, hard information;
that the Cubana were behind the assassination.
In other words, you know, at that particular period In
time there were a large number of rumors, gossip, in the
Cuban Community. Those that came to our attention were
reported, and we tried to put them in some perspective, that
dgy who was the individual, what access did he have be this.
data ind so forth.
But we had no parsuasion that this was being mounted
By the Cubans at that particular time,
Mr. Wallach. I would like to ask a couple of questions
by way of background and let Jim yo right back to his line
of questioning
Taking the period as exemplaży, October of 1963 --
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Mr. Halley.
P. Wallach.
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October of *63, okay.
which I take it would be fairly indicatin
of what was going on in May, time, duly and August of um
dame year, I want to pick a fairly standard montly for that
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Ar. Halley,
A Walkaen, Before the assassination,
It's my understanding that in addition to getting, pośre
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Intelligence from refugees, etc., coning to this country.
that your station did operate agents and did have sources,
whatever terms you want to use Inside Cuba, is that brrect?
Yes, we did have sources inside Caba.
Mr. Halley.
Mr. Wallach.
Gould you briefly for the record --
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(Pause)
Mr. Wallach.
What I'd like to do very briefly for the
record, as you know, I think you had an interview with Mr.
Pacon and went into it with you, but very briefly describe
generally the type of operations that your station was condy
vis-a-vis Cubai
Mr. Halley. Well, in the first instance we were engaged
in foreign intelligence collection activities, that is, tych.
to establish information which related to the plans, intenci
and capabilities of the Cuban goverment. We were also
involved in counterintelligence operations, that is, trying
to figure out what the Cubans were doing in terms of their
Intelligence operations in the United States, or through.
United States into Central and Latin America. We were
Involved in propaganda operations against Cuba, and coveRYN
action in the sense of trying to establish contact with
dissident military personalities in Cuba.
Mr. Wallach. Without naming names, did you in the cife
peziod I've been talking about, October of 1963, have ette
sources or agents fairly highly placed within the Cuban
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Mr. Halley. Idon't think
there I'd have to get a
If you
better definition from you of what is highly placed.
are talking about Pidel Castro and his immediate entourage
Mr. Wallach. People who could possibly have been in
meetings or dinner with Castro, oz meetings with Castro.
don't know enough about how Castro operated.
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Mr. Halley. I would say if you are talking about somebody
who was a member of his immediate entourage and who was dealing
with him in a governmental sense, then the answer is no,
but
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we did have people who were on the periphery of this.
That
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is, they wouldn't have been major participants, but they
would have been in social contact with Castro or members of
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his entourage.
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Mr. Wallach.
Now about parsons within the DGI, whate
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the correct name for Cuban intelligence is.
Mr. Halley,
well, again as I mentioned earlier, we had
no staff officer penetration of the Cuban intelligence servi
We had some reporting on people who were in touch with
vacious louders in the Cuban intelligence, and it was al
social or family or other context that these people were
reporting en
Mr. Wallach..
Do you recall at any time in 1962 or 10k
the fact being brought to your attention that certain Cuban
agents out of New York City were actually beginning to run
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assassination plots against Cuban exile leaders down in
Miami?
Mr. Halley. Out of New York?
No, I don't recall that.
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One thing, just before we leave this, so we don't have an
incomplete record, you asked me the other kinds of operations
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that we were running. We were running a full scope of para-
That is, we were putting
military operations against Cuba,
people back into Cubs who may have come from a particolar
province, and who then went into the bush and lived in the
bush, and we kept them supplied with food, arms, busie
We did have radio contact with them.
equipment.
Involved in raids against the Cuban coast, we were involved
putting caches into the Cuban coast.
We were
Senator Schweiker.
Does that finish your point?
Mr. Halley. Yes, sir, that's roughly it.
Senator Schweiker. Following up this other question,
was any one part of your job plugging intelligence Lacka at
this given time?
from bax
Was there any concern during your timeframe that you were
involved in Cuban operations of Intelligence leaks
country to theirs through the Cuban btwlligence system?
Was this ever a consideration of priority of you as
Station Chief?
Mr. Halley..
Yes*
In terms of
well, yes, the answay
to that is yes.
Now, let me elaborate on it.
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We had a jurisdictional problem.
For instance, a Cuban
agent detected in the United States or being suspected of being
* Cuban agent would have been a case that we would have had
to have coordinated with the FBI, and essentially the FDI took
primary action on this.
I recall one case where we detected a Cuban agent in the
United States, and the case was transferred to the Burdau and.
it involved a fundamental jurisdictional issue, which was
clearly the Bureau's right to take that particular caso over.
So in that sonse, the primary responsibility in the Miami
area in the counterintelligence sense that you are discussing
Senator, would have rested with the Bureau..
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Senator Schweiker.
Did you ever attempt to find a leak
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by placing one of our agents into the system to plug a leak?
I mean, was it ever that magnitude of concern attached?
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Mr Halley. No, I don't recall that kind of a case.
other words, I do recall cases where people came out of Cuba)
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gave us a story that we did not necessarily believe, where
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we would turn them back and send them back to Cuba,
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over a longer period of time we could determine what it is
they were really after what they were trying to do.
words, were they trying to come into the United States to
penstrate and immigrate, were they trying to get in touch wa
America intelligence, and if so, why,
In ot
But it was all done
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back Into the Cuban context.
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Senator Schweiker.
This is a tough question to answer,
but at that period of time, how successful in your opinion was
the Cuban Intelligence system in doing some of that penetratio
and I realize that we had a lot of Cuban exiles here, and it is
pretty hard to tol), the players from the scorecard we are in.
It is a tough relevant question, but I wonder how you would
analyze it.
Mr. Halley. Well, I think it would be fair to say that
given the Cuban propensity to talk in other words, you have
to start off with a fundamental point of departure that if you
get two Cubans that have got a secret, it is not going to be
a secret, because they do talk, and therefore they all cons Kun
talk.
Our biggest problem in maintaining security of our own
operations, such as an infiltration operation into. Cuba to
put in a cache or run a commando paid or put a person back
in was to maintain security. The only way we could do it woul
be to take all participants of that operation and take them.
out of the Cuban community and in fact isolate them for a wo
of ten days or more prior to the mounting of the operation. —
that they wouldn't talk, and we could know where they would
be constantly, 24 hours a day. And within that aflieu, I d
it is safe to say that the Cuban Intelligence service did hap
some agents and could be expected to have a general feel for
"
the pulse of the community at that time.
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Senator Schweiker
During that same time frame, or
during the time frame that you were Station Chief, what are
some other Cuban groups that you worked with that come to
'mind? I have mentioned DRE.
different one37
realize there were several
Any others particularly that were helpful and worked with
you like the DRE?
Mr. Halley, Well, the DRC was the main group because
what had happened is after the or prior to the Bay of Migs
there was a great collaboration between CIA and a number of
these groups. After the Bay of Pigs, the dialogue with thead
groups sort of dried up, and during tenure, the main
that we worked with In that wense as an Organizational entity
was the DRE because they had a lot of active, imaginative.
young student leaders who had contacts throughout the Wester
Hemisphere who were aqually interested in using them in x
propaganda and covart action sense in Central and Latin
on as we ware actually using their against Cuba itself.
Where did Alpha 56 toffle
Senator Schweiker..
into that?
Mr. Halley. We did not have an organizational law
We monitored the
vich Alpha 66. Alpha 66 vas in being.
activities so that we would know when they were going to a
raids against Cuba. We may have had people who at one che
or another were in our paramilitary to us who left us E
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one reason or another and may have ended up in Alpha 66.
Senator Schweiker. We realize that one of the other
Intelligence agencies might have had a liaison or working
operation with Alpha 66, not the CIA, is that correct?
Mr. Hallby. Yes, I think you know, in the back of
my memory I believe that one of the military services
Senator Schweiker. Might it have been the Army
Intelligence?
Mr. Halley, My recollection, it was probably a militar
service, and is probably was the Army, but I would have to
遥遥
chack the record.
Senator Schweiker.
"We also were informed, and I just
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wondered if this was your recollection, that at some point.
some of the operations got a little bit overlapping and
duplicating, and that the boats would -- I'm simplifying it
of course, but that the boats weren't coordinated too well,
and at one point it got to be a problem with whoever else
was involved, and that finally an agreement was worked out
with Army intelligence that all the beats would be supplied.
by CIA instead of having them sort of fly-by-nighting and
possibly mess up some things because of duplication or conf
Do you recall any of that at all?
Malley. Well, I think there were periods when the
... Government was putting a clamp-down on refugee groups
going out, and the whole apparatus of government, Coast Quil
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Customs, Timmigration and Naturalization, #BI, CIA, were working
together to try to keep these operations from going to Cuba.
In that context, the military did have some problems, but
my recollection of that, Senator, is that we put them into the
coordination mechanism that we had for getting boats our.
don't recall our taking their people
Senator Schweiker. I might have stated it wrong,
What do you mean by a coordination mechanism7
Mr.. Halley. Well, for instance, we had, let's say, for
the month of October 1963, we would draw up an operational
plan in September. In the course of that operational plan and
geated to the dark of the moon, we would have a number of
Infiltration missions scheduled to poc in caches.
We'd have
à nuber of missions scheduled to put in teans or on take
people out of Cuba. We'd have a number of missions
scheduled to conduct commando raids against fixed installation
So we would draw up the schedule and coordinate the
schedule with the appropriate agencies like Coast Guard dr
Customs so that we could move our boats ko and out and not
cast the U.S. Government to expand manhours and money
pursuing our boats,
Senator Scakelker. I think that is what I had in a
Mr. Halley, And therefore, on this schedule, when wa
drk this out, we therefore would tack on the military
operations and work this out so that there was a central
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clearinghouse, and the U. S. government had a grip on what it
was doing in this clandestine field,
Senator Sebwelker, To your recollection, besides Army
Intelligence, were there any other intelligence services that
were involved to any extent with that general picture?
Mr. Halley.
Well, with the mutation of that, as I recall.
the Navy had some activities in and out of Guantanamo, and there
were some discussions at various times on how their pepple
In Guantanamo could be supported, and the people were going
in and out of Guantanamo.
Senator Schweiker.
or not compared to yours?
Were the Army operations very oxton
Mr. Halley. No. Compared to ours, they were infinitess
Senator Schweiker. And Navy?
Mr. Balley.
Navy, as I think all of this was limited
the perimeter all around Guantanamo, and Guantanamo.
Senator Schweiker. All right..
Mr. Wallach. I just want to ask you a couple of wore.
questions as I was going to before
and
I realize this question is going to your expertise
if you have any trouble with definitional terms, let's get
thom straight.
Mt. Halley Right
MẺ. Wallack, DU HAVE itself as an entity have the
capability to conduct an investigation to determine whether
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not there had been Cuban involvement in the assassination of
President Kennedy in 19637
Mr. Halley. I don't think there would have been a real
world capability. I mean, if you're talking in my terms of
conducting an Investigation of this type in Cuba, which would
have bean professionally sound, that people could have put
confidence in, I thank the answer to that de probably no.
giving you an opinion. That is my opinion.
Mr. Wallach. Let's go back to terma, then. I'm not ca
about an investigation where you could obviously have the
freedom to go up and interview anyone you wanted to interview.
Malley No. We are talking about through clandesti
resources. In other words, to conduct this kind of investig
tian, you know In my view, you would have had to have had
a penetration of one or more of the Cuban intelligence servine
The penetration would have had to have been in the 26th of F
Movement, and had enough **pport with the top leadership tha
It could have moved freely in and out of a specific circle.
would probably had. to have been at the level of a Comanda
We did not have that kind of resourcu in depth to conduct
that kind of investigation.
Mr. Wallach. were the ever way discussions at that
that you remember between yourself, izgeald, Helms,
ayona, as to whether or not the CIA did have the capabili
to conduct such an investigation?
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Mr. Halley I don't recall such a discussion, but agaiÄ ×
the reason for it was, it was essentially felt at that time, as
name traces were done, the whole mood and the whole atmosphere
was that this was a case that was being investigated by the
FET
It was their jurisdictional problem.
Mr. Wallach. Did the FBI, to your knowledge, have the
capacity to investigate or to conduct any sort of investigation
Inside Cuba?
Mr. Halley, Inside Cuba? No, I don't think they did.
Mr. Wallach. Did you have direct contact with enyono
from the Bureau on a continuing basis from the FRI?
Let's restructure that whole azça.
Mr. Johnaton..
What was the liaison relationship between JMWAVE, ther
Bureau and Florida?
Mr. Halley* There was a direct liaison on a daily woż
basis, if this was required, between UMWAVE and the Miami.
Fleid office, I think it was called, up a separate field
office.
Mr. Johnston. At what level was this liaison conduated,
directly with you?
Mr. Halley. No.
Whis was conducted at at least three
levels that I can recall:
periodically the Chief of and Fini
office and I would meet to review prowlers. if we had any
particular problems, or frankly, just to get togethez jast
to make sure that we did not have any problems.
There was
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direct liaison on a working level between the people in the
Counterintelligence shop of the Station and what I think
Dureau used to call the Tamale Squad, which were former
Bureau agents who had been down in Havana, who had left when
Fidel came into power, and were still working in Miami.
third ilaison was essentially with people who were working
spocific cases, where the nure trace mechanism between ourselves
and the Bureau would show some #tuality of Interest in a
particular case.
For instance, as an example, the Burgau might call up and
say, look, what do you know about Joan Jose Gonzalez bf thQ
Second Front of the Escambrat.
Mo'i say, okay, we'll take
the quasbiy wall do a trace, prepare the anavery and sand
would go down and talk to them. So it was clase. I would
say it was close.
Mr. Johnaton. Did you ever de the reverse? Did you ev
ask the Bureau for information?
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Mr. Malley. Yes.
Me traced apecific people with the
Bureau.
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Mr. Johnstah. In Novender, after the assassination
President Kennedy, did you personally woes with anybody. Fro
the FBI regarding the testigation?
Mr, talley.
24.
Mr. Johnston.
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(don't recall meeting on that specific.
Do you know whether anyone in JMWAVE Bel
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with the FBI in regard to the FBI investigation in Plorida?
Mr. Salley, My recollection is that this name, traco
procedure was working, whatever they were working in relationshi
to their investigation, was being run through us. In other
words, how many traces, who was being traced, I couldn't answer
that.
Mr. Johnston. Welk, name traces are one thing. I ques
I am talking one step above that. Did anyone in JMWAVE to
your knowledge discuss with anyone in FBI in Morida the
CIA's capability so assist the PoI investigation?
Mr. Halley I have no way of answering that. I don't.
recall that. I don't recall that kind of thing. You know,
this is - you know, we're talking about 1963. This is 13
years ago, and I keep telling you, you know, I've had a busy,
active life.
Senator Schweiker.
You are doing so far very well.
Mr. Halley.
I feel you are pressing me on something
I man I don't recall each an
is almost unreasonaslo,
every coliversation. I mean, I had a 300 man station..
Mr. Johnston I agtes with you on that, but you are
describing name traces, which you do seem to recall, bus (
zaying was there anything beyond nano traces that you radiis
Has there any assistance given beyond nano Ecacest.
23
Senator Seawelker.
was there any higher level investis
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Mr. Halley. The reason this name trace thing sticks in
my mind, frankly, is because of the name traces that ware con-
ducted on Oswald when we got the hit, and I recall, the hit
was made on the fact that there was the discussion and debate
between Oswald and the DRE fellow, and we were tracing a lot
of names at that time, and in conjunction with this particulać
event, once people were arrested and detained and there was
Some eksos to expect that there was what I called an investi
gative follow-up, you know you've got to start from sone
fhet. What was the fact? You had a name, an address, a
telephone number, that kind of tracing was going on..
That
is what impacts on me, what is the, you know, 13 year* 1*6pr.
In connection with that, the grasp
the DR group, there was some allegation that Oswald, I guess
part of it is reality for sure, that he tried to penetrate
the groep himself by coming in when he was in New Orleans and
infiltrate it on his own, which I guess is known,and: what
16 in doubt, there was an allegation that while he was doing
that, that he possibly talked of sandsmating Rennedy or bi
paid money to assassinate Kennedy.
Does any of that conversation strike any balls or redor:
tion with regard to DRET
Mr. Halley No. It does', Conator, and I think I've
que to explain this to you as to what was the nature of our
relacionship with the DRE
In other words, we had a
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relationship with the DRE where we gave them a monthly
subsidy. In other words, this would make then in our category.
like independent contractors. In return for this particular
subsidy, they ware to collect intelligence for us on the island
of Cuba where they still had people. They were to be a symbol
of a certain amount of resistance, therefore they had to engage
in certain activities, propaganda, radio broadcasts, correspon
dence to their Iriends and associates on the inside to show
that there was a spark on the outside, areund which people coul
rally.
They also wanted to have a boat to move poopte insidio
and out of cube, and the money, the subsilly that we gave phos
helped them do all of these things. And we got on accounting
frem. Chant. But we did not control each and every action clige
thay book, so that if they chose, you know, not to report
something to us, we wouldn't necessarily know it, and not
every little detail of their organization did we know.
they met somebody --
Senator Schweiker
Wall. I can and that becabal
there ward a lot of groups like that, I'm sure.
Mz. Halley. But that particular bio was one with whink
we had a subsidy relationship
Senator Schweiker. Do you rucall who your control
relationship was with that particular group tassun bl
was a CTN control relationship.
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Mr. Halloy. 700, there was a particular man that was in
liaison with that group, and there were several during that periou
of ting.
Benator Schweiker. Might it have been Carlos Brinquier,
the name wo mentioned before?
Mr. Halley. You mentioned the name, and to be honest, the
But is he also known as Fatty?
name apesse ring a bell.
Senator Schweiker.
Well, you've got ne now.
Wall, every Caban has an alias, like, they
Mr. Haliny.
10
call
11
hin El Gordo or something like that.
Senator Schwalker. Well, it might bøj
He fits it
Wat
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Mr. Halley, Well, you might be able to answer this.
he the fellow that was on the DR boat that raided Havana?
I have trouble matching up some of these names, and frankly,
that name doesn't ring a bell, but I might have known him as
II Gardo, and he was on the boat, and we dealt with different.
people.
(Discussion off the record.}
Mr. Johnston, wae me show you WAVE cable 8049, dated
20
21
22 November ), which is your report on this or matter, aka
that cable busically indicates that you got information frod
DRE about Oswald.
22.
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is that corect?
Mr. Dalkey ..
The wording of this particular cabi
shows that wy did get from the ORD files this information.
NW 10
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Johnston. My question to you is, of partial signi£i-
cance, and that is the fact that that cable says that Oswald
"allegadly lives in home of Foreign Minister for two months.
My question is that this allegation that he lived in
the home of the Soviet foreign minister has never been
substantiated through any other source, and I wonder whether
you have a recollection of going back to DRE to see where
they got that information.
Mr. Halley. No, I don't have a recollection of going back
on that specific cable.
Mr. Johnston.
Do you have any recollection of headquarter:
ever coming back to you and saying what is the source of that
Mr. Halley, you know, I don't see how you can expect.e
to remember that, really.
You know, in the course of a day,
á normal day, I might read a thousand cables.
Senator Schweiker. Well, does the fact that he might
have lived in a Soviet foreign minister's home for two months
ring a bell?
Mr. Halley. Well, you know, showing me that cable. T
have to accept the cable at face value. That is what it so
I acknowledge that is what it says. The cable says we got s
from the DRE I accept it on face value. That incident,
the torobo minister's repidance, does not ring a ball wick .
Senator Schweiker. So you wouldn't know offhand where t
allegation came from.
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Halley.
No. I don't know. We would have to go back
to them and their criteria for carding might not coincide with
ours. In other words, many of these Cuban groups were prone
They were prone to publicize things that
to act on Zumora
were not true. The DRE had à record of publiciting, embroider)
elaborating on things, and therefore we treated a lot of their
material with caution.
Senator Schweiker. Right.
Go andad, Paul.
Mr. Wallach. Generally, now, and I'm not baking for
specific conversations at all.
I think it is entirely trud,
it is a caveat throughout this entire thing, we are talking
But generally,do
you recall whether or not the PBI, the people you dealt with.
n
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about 13 years ago, millions of matibers ago.
14
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had any general knowledge of the CIA's capability inside
Cuba to get information?
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Well, I think it would be fair to say that
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the FDI knew the kinds of operations that we were running, and
I think they could have drawn certain conclusions about,
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know, what our cupability might have been, That is, let
pit this in perspective." I'm talking out the people M
Miami. Occasionally when I would come to Washington for
conferences, I would meet somebody like Papich. We happenia
to be. you know, friends, and I would talk to him and say
how and you doing, how are things going, what kind of activi
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rapich probably have a feel for the scope of our activity;
but whether he would have an appreciation of the kinds of
4
specific @darces, I doubt it.
灩
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Mr. Wallach. In other words, you would doubt whether of
not anyone in the Bureau would have known whether or not you
had an extremely high level source in castro's entourage.
Mr. Halley. I doubt that they would know that.
Mr. Wallach. At any time, do you recall after the assassa-
nation anyone from the bureau, even from the lab field offic
or from headquarters, through Wapich, through your headquarter
contacting you to determine whether or not you had the capabi
to conduct investigations on Cuba?
Mr. Halley. No, I don't recall that.
Yew.
13
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Do you want me
-- can we go off the record for a mo
Senator Schweiker.
3,6
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(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Wallach. Let's go back on the record,
Were you known to the FBI ander your real name of undot
an alias?
Nx. Jaldey, No. I was known to the EAI under my raz
name If you are wondering about whether the name is going:
snow up in the FBI records, I think they always would, in ku
writing of reports, do not use the tene hands. In other wat is
they say, you know, source or confidential informant, or &
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whatever it was called, and that is the way they write their
reports.
Mr. Wallach. tat me ask you this. I realize this was
e subject matter that was covered in your previous testimony.
I deem it of relevance, and I would like to ask you here, wery
you award on November 22nd, 1963, that the CIA had at some poin
in tine prior to that date itself engaged in attempts to assino
nate or used others in attempts to assassinats Fidel Castraž
Mr. Halley.. No. I think the basic answer to that questled
is no, but if you looked at my previous testimony, I previously
wald that in the case of this Cuban comandante over the year®,
a kad acquired some knowledge of the face that ho exiscou and
he was being run by my colleagues in Washington, but that cas
was not known to me as a diearcut assassination operation.
other words, at one point in time I knew that Des Fitzgerald
was going to meet this fellow. I knew at one point in time
phere was going to be a meeting in Spain. I knew at one poiNG
in time that we were putsång cactice in to support this parti
I never knew whether the caches were recovered,
things like that.. But the fundaminal answer is no.
I have also previously rostitied that on some of the
motivities that were being engaged an by Mr. Harvey, that I
was not knowledgeable on, you know, the thrust of those
activitiet.
Mr. Wallach. Did your own sources in the Cuban comunit
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tell you that the, what we call the underworld, the Matia,
was engaging in attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro?
Mr. Balley. I don't recall any such reports, but I've
explained this, and let me go again on this, that assassination:
the word "assassination" was part of the ambience of that
In other words, every Cuban that you talked to, mopedy
could be involved in Cuban operations without having had
some sort of a discussion at some time with some Cuban who
said, gee, we ought to knock this guy off, or I'd shoot him i
I had the chance, or the way to create à revolution is to
shoot Fidel and Rauly and then go down through the whole
proposition. So the fact that somebody would talk about.
assassination just waan's anything that was really out of ch
ordinary at the time. It was part of the climate,
The so
14.
15
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were professional revolutionaries in some cases, men, who had
been in the 26th of July movement and left, and come in and
become exitos, and had been exiles two or three times.
Revolution and assassination was a way of life for them.
Mr. Wallach Did you have any doubt in your wind that
Castro was awaze in November 1963 that the CIA was supportin
thus revolutionaries?
Mr. Halley. Supporting revolutionarius.
Mr. Wallach.
Right.
Mr. Halley, Yes I Cisco knew that the Unitel
States was in touch with groups like the DRE, that people
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were being infiltrated by CIA Into Cuba, because they apprehended
some of them.
Walbach. Groups that were trying to overthrow
Castro.
Nr. Halley,
But he had to assume that if they were coming.
8
in, they were setting up querilla forces in places like
Oriente Province, and Pinar del Rio, that yes, they were going.
to work to overthrow him, and he had to know that.
Mr. Wallach. Were you aware of any other country that
the United States Government was at that time attempting to
overthrow the government of, and we can get your answer oft
the record if it is positive.
10
11
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13
Mr. Halley,
14.
that?
15
Well, wait a minute.
Would you raprade
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I'm not sure I follow that particular one.
Mr. Wallach. You cahay back to me with the word assass
nation, said it was part of the ambience of the times, that
that might have been discussed at one time or another,
belief, as a layman, has been t don't see that much of a
distinction between sending someone in who is going to
fament a revolution, the result of which would probably bu
the death of Castro as opposed to sanding someone in to -
don't want to get into this, but I think that may have been
someching that you were boudung o
In ang even are you aware of any other country tha:
the U.S. at that the was directing attempts to overthrow t
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Halley,
No.
Off the top of my head, no, but I
6
de want to come back to your point. I do think there is a
difference in the Latin American revolutionary sense of plotting
a zavolution against somebody as opposed to plotting a
specific assassination operation against a particular individes)
You know, maybe we have an honest difference of opinion on that
Mr. Wallzob. All right, Tet se continue on.
7.
B
point, but my view differs from yours.
9.
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You also mentioned before that some of the people, the
people that you felt ware making general polley, were Hala,
Bobby Bennedy, at one point Rd Lansdale.
Rr. Halley. Oh-buh.
Mr. Wallacir. Did the Cubans know that? bid the Cubans
know that Bobby Kennedy was involved?
tire;
Mr. Halley. I don't know that they were at that point
but alwarly at later points of time when the Brigade 2506
returned, yes, they know that Bobby Hannedy was in the Cuban
policy affairs. Lanters of the brigade Like Aztline, Oliva,
the San Juan brothers and others were brought to Washington
for lunches, dinners with, I guess is that time it was the
Attorney Vesoral, because there were various phases in this
thing.
Yes, they knew he was involved in affairs.
A Willach. A you familiar with an article that appa
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in I think it was the September 7th issue of the New Orleans
Times-Picayune, among other newspapere, which reflected an
interview Castro had with Daniel Harker of the AP; within which
he said in wubstance that U.S. leaders would be in danger is
they continued in their attempts, I think he used the word
'eliminate".
Mr. Balley. Yes, I'm familiar with the general article,
yes, but I can't tell you with certainty that I was aware of
that article at the tind that it appeared. In other words,
you're asking about 1961, did you say it appeared?
Ar. Wallach. September 7, 1963.
Mr. Halley: I chanat swear that f know about it in 1966.
I since kris: that that ariele has been referred to a number
Cres.
Johnston. Lac ne just state for the record that 1
did not bring the WAVE cable on it, but WAVE did pass to hee
quarters the gist of that article as it appeared in Miami
articles, passed that information to headquarters either pa
Mire 23rd or 24th of yer because the FBI was inquiring
about exile groups okrining that Castro had, threatened Ka
anyway, no chat ac ben WAVE had knowledge right after the
assasination of that sticle.
Nr. 119% All fight. The reason I qualify my raspisina..
that may have been a cable that would have been released by
some member of my staff.. It didn't necessarily follow thus
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was a WAVE cable, that I personally released it. I don't happen
to recall it, but I am familiar with the azelcia and the thrust
of it.
Mr Wallach. I realize again you may not have been fanta
with it at that time, or even before the assassination, but
what - and I'm not asking specifically for what facts, bub
XXX
7 you have testified previously that I don't want to parapha
6
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your testimony, it speaks for itself
that you had no reaso
to believe that the Cubans were involved in the assassination
of President Kennedy.
Mr. Halley. Yes, at the time that the incident occurred.
and when Oswald was apprehended, I had no cuason to believe
that the Cubana were: Involved.
NW. Wallach.
Taking the other side of the coin, whit
evidence was there in your mind that they were not involvou
Well, because we didn't have any evidence
TIG DC 20003
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MY. Halley.
that they were.
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Mr. Wallach.
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bie you conduct may investigation at ali t
determine it there was any involvement?
Mr. Halley. I didn't have any charter for that.
paople were arrusten. The FBI and the authorities in that
párticular, în Gables, were pursuing the case. I had no
charter to jursue that.
Mr. Waldsels. lid you ever as Mr. Holas whether or ext
you could conduct such an investigation, or did he ever tell
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you that you could or could no127
Mr. Halley. Noi I answered that, that I don't recall
any such conversation where helms told me I could or could not.
I mean,
this was not a subject that was being discussed.
I think the frame of reference at the time was that this
was not a jurisdictional case for the CIA to pursue.
Mr. Mallsch. You mean, the President of the United States
is murdered, and it is not within the Spriudiction of the CIA
9.
to determine if a foreign country is involved?
10:
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Mr. Halley. Not if the Investigation is run by the
PUI and a person is apprehended, and one is going to assume
that he is going to be interkoyated, investigative leads are
going to be obtained from and a particular agency has jot
the action responsibility. Under those airconstances, my
parception of the various rules is that CIA performs a support
function. In other words, if you are asked for a name
37
18.
Mr. Wallach.
19.
Brace, or traces on telephone numbers, physical descriptions,
you know, license plate whatever it may be you reapand.
who gave you thasu instructions, that
20
Čia was only to have a support function?
Mr. Halley..
That is a perception.
Mh. Mallach..
who told you that?
22
Nobody has ball you that. You're an
welligence him being. Your allowed to think for yoursel
and you can come to logical conclusions.
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Mr. Wallach, þið somebody tell you that the FBI had
primary jurisdiction?
Mr. Halley. No, but the PAI has primary jurisdiction.
this is something we are taught in our training courses. in
the United States, you know, for cases in the United States.
For instance, my explanation of this -- I gave you an explanation.
of the counterintelligence case in the States where we found
a Cuban agent in the United States, and the jurisdiction of the
case reverted to the FBI.:
Senator Schweiket.
De. You want to make a comment here,
10
Seymour?
Mr. Bolten. I'd like to go off the record.
Senator Schweiker.
All right
(Discussion off the record.)
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Senator Schweiker.
Let's go back on the record.
2002 D
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Mr. Wallach. I have one or two more questions on this.
Senator Gehweiker.
All right.
Mr. Wallach. Did at any time during the existence of
Warren Commission, do you recall -- and I'm not asking for
specific event, but do you recall having any type of indi
relationship with that Commission, in essence, desponding so
requenty that were made of the Agency and they asking you fou
general information?
Mr. Halloy. Would you give it the dates of the Wars
Commission?
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Mr Wallach. December 163
Mr. Halley.
M Wallach.
December 1, 163 to when?
September of '64.
Mr. Halley. No
Mr. Wallach. Do you have any reason today to believe
that there was Cuban Involvement in the assassination of
President Kennedy?
Mr. Halley. I have no hard information on that.
.B.
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Mr. Wallach. Do you have any hearsay information?
Mr. Ballay. NO. I danz hearsay information, what
constitutes hearsay? cfiel wrote an article in the Mashington
Post, you know, suggesting that there is some -- is that.
hearsay evidence? I mean, I don't happen to believe his
Mr. Wallach. I am asking you if you have any belief an
expert?
Mr. Halley. As an expert I only deal in facts, in other
words not - what I consider hard intelligence, I don't have
hard intelligence.
any
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Mr. Johnston, Ophur than the FDI, did you have a fatson
with other investigative agencies?
M. Halley. Yes, I d
Mr. Johnston. Did you have an investigative zolation
with the 03. Custors Dogstment, specifically a Custoies.
agent who was on detail to CIA?
Mr. Halley, had a relationship with a Customma
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sdent by the name of Caesar Debatado.
Caeser DeEstado was
detailed on an arrangement between CIA which was in being when
I came to the station. His primary function was to be
stationed in Key West, Florida. He generally covered the area
from Key West to either Marathon or it could have been. --
elther Marathon or El Marado, and his tasks were, one, to
Find Cubans who were coming Into the United States in small.
boats, and to ensure that he took a quick look at them to
see if any one of them could be turned around to be used as
intelligence sources. If they couldn't be used as intelligend
sources. ne akimmed off the perishable information that was
really critical, and then put it into our syskone He also
flagged the knowledgeable people for further exploitation by
un when the went to the Opa Loca briefing cente*.
picked up equipment, that is documents from these people,
weapons, clothing, so that we could use authentic clothing: të
equip our own teams.
Mr. Johnston, bid be also stay in contact with certain
Aban exilest
Mr. Hatley. He did stay in contact with Cuban exile
groups because it was part of a job to know when they worl
goind out so blat we didn't have these uncoordinated probl
In other words, at one point we tried to stop them.
has to know who was in the afros running a training camp or
something like that, so that our operations would not be
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compromised by coming into a camp next to where come exiled
Cubans were already working.
7
8.
6.
Mr. Johnston. And 4ld ha
let me back up. First, hava
you participated in the Agency's response to the Committees
written inquiry about thin?
Mr. Halley. Well, to this extent, somebody in the Agency:
called me and said the Committee had a request in for some
data on à Customs officer. Nobody could remember his name
happened to remember his bane. I said Caesar DeEstado was the
guy's name. I don't remember how to spell it. Phonetically"
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I think. It is as follows, and try to find a file on it.
And
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so to that extent, yes, I am aware that there was some sört
a response being prepared. I did not see the response.
don't know what it daya.
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M. Johnston. Do you know whether he was asked either by
you or by anybody in WAVE to contact Cuban exiles after the
assassination to see what knowledge they might have?
I WAS
Mr. Hailey Well, let me try to clarify that,
not his contact point. In other words, I was a manager of
Jarge Speration.
Mr. Johnston. I understand that. So did anybody under
your control contact huz
Br. Halley His point of contact was in Key West.
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cally he would either come to Hland or meet with one of our
people, and once every three months or something like that I
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would have a meeting with him to review broad trends, either
in Key West or in Miami. I never taked him with this type of
thing. I don't recall anybody else in the station tasking hin
to conduct an investigation of Cuban groups relative to the
President's assassination. But as we were putting together
mood cables you showed me an example of one there it is
conceivable that he is the kind of person that we would have
talked to to find out what was going on in the Cuban
at that time.
community
Mr. Johnston. Do you know whether he did in fact contact
Cuban exiles about it? Do you have any knowledge of his contaoksid
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Cuban exiles?
Mr. Halley, I don't have any firsthand knowlodge.
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Mr. Johnston.
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Do you have any knowledge whatsoever?
Mr. Malley. I would have to say firsthand, I don't
recall any information of any subordinate of mine reporting
me that he had done that.
Mr. Johnston. You testified warlier that you met with
Br. Fitzgerald at some point, and that be told you at that
time that he made contact personally with a Boban agent, ande
mamed AMLASH?
Mr. Hadley. I think my testimony was something along at.
Line, that I had a conversation with Fitzgerald, that he wis
going to meet a cuba source. My recollection was that the b
name may have come up, that he was asking my opinion and afv,
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as to whether this would be a useful thing to doi And as I
have testified before, my recollection is I told him I thought
I would find this conversation interesting, but I didn't think
it was worth his doing because he had too high a profile, and
It would not be a good thing so do from the point of view of
attribution. In relationship to a clandestine acent.
Mr. Johnston. And let me go through what you have juat
told me..
First of all, was this agent, when be used the true
name, was it the agent whose cryptonym is AMLASHT
760000 70352
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Mr. Malley. Yes.
is who te 18.
Mr. Johnso
Subdoquently I have concluded that thai
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Did he tell you or indicate that à moet ing
Watwegh him and AMLASH was proposed?
Mr. Halloy. Well, he was considering a meeting with
AÄLASI, with this particular person.
Mr. Jonston. Do you have a recollection as to what
timefrause your discussion with Mr. Picagaald was?
Mr. Halley No, I don't.
Mr. Johnston. Knowing that Mr. Pitzietald met with
ALASH on October 29th, 1963, does that refresh your redolly
as to whether the conversation took place earlier in 19637
Pr. Halley. I am sorry, I can narrow that down for
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you
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Mr.
Johnston.
But you advised against the meeting.
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Mr. Halley.
Right.
Mr. Johnst.co. You were knowledgeable, I take it, of the
Agency's dealing with AMLASH from time to time, as part of
JMWAVE.
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Mr. Halley.
I mentioned to you carlier that we had
put in caches which were scheduled to be retrieved by AMLASU
ar hia people, so yes, I knew that we were providing support
an agent in Cuba, but that was not unusual because we were:
putting in a large number of baches for a wide variety of
people who were being run out of Washington, over and out of
other stations..
NI. Jomation. And you may have testified about this beforu
but was it common to drop caches of rifles or selescopic sight
for agents?
Mr. Halley I would not necessarily have known what was
in each cache.
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Mr. Johnston.
Well, was It common to drap, to your know
to drop rifles with telescopic sights?
Mr. Halley. Well, I think the thing that would be u
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common would be telescopic sights. Many of our caches wee
weapons caches. A large bulk of the caches were rifles of end
kin or another. we put in the FAL, the Belgian SAD, we
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put in is put u carbines, we put in Springfields, we
pat is thompson submachine guns. "I think if I were looking
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a cache list and I saw a telescope on it matched up with a
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Springfield *03 rifle, that probably would have struck me as
being unusual, but I did not see the inventories of all the
exches.
Mr. Johtraton. Would you commonly or routinely sep cabios
from the Director, especially on the AMLASH operation?
Mr. Halley. No..
From the Director to whom?
Hr. Johnston.
Mr. Halley. My recollection is, other than specific
requests to put in caches, that there wasn't any cable traffic
between Washington and JMWAVE on that particular operation.
Ian searching through my notas
Ar Johnston..
Halley. dght.
Mr. Johnsten.
The Committee does not have copies of th
file of AMGASIL That is at the AgencyA Let be, of you'17
accups is us a fact that there was a cable in early December
1363 from the Director to JMWVvd #fracting, using the crypt
AMGAGII and directing that a cache be supplied him, Instodine
in that, itemizing two rifles with telescopic sights.
Mr. Halleys Than kind of a cable I may or may not have
Bern In other words, kliat would have been a fairly standse
logistics kind of thing to get a caché and it would hate coa
up on my briefing chart for the month, the oporation, N numbe
of days before the operation was launched, I would hate qad
a briating with all of the paramilitary and maritime officura
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and our COMENT; ELINT and other specialiste to look at the CV:
and make a decision as to whether the operation should go or
not go. At that point I probably would have known that it was
cache, that it contained weapons, that it was in support of
a headquarters rus operation.
Mt. Johnston. Do you recall on or about 7 or 9 December
1963 stop being put an operations, certain operations that
went into Cuba?
Mr. Halley. I don't recall that specific timeframe,
there were periodic ups and downs in the number of operations
that could be run. We would get policy guidance to stand
down for a period of time, that once one of those things et
out, think that we had a serioz of discussions, I think.
Washington, and appeals, that if there was a standdown, and
we had to say something, who were dependant on us in Cuba.
for food and a continuing flow of weapons, that we couldn's
have them preparing these caches and risking their lives td:
come to the seception paints and not be able to meet the
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Mr. Joha
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Do you décall, though, in the period 6,
and & Dagenbar, headquarters first authorizing contain
operations and then calling off the operations, and specific
cables which said, and I quoto pardon se, I don't quote.
the operations being called off, "panding major cop level
Chan-Caribbean policy review scheduled early next week wishe
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should provide basis for decision.
Mr. Halley. I don't recall your specific daces or your
timeframe, but the point I would like to leave with you. Is that
there were several periods like that where we had ups and downs,
and yes, I do recall standdowns on operations.
Mr. Johnston, You don't recall a standdown within two
weeks of the assassination of President Kennedy.
Mr. Halley. I am sorry, I don't. You know,
accept that
it occurred, but you know, there were so many of those during
the three and a half year period of time that I don't recall
that specific one.
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Mr. Johnston.
What does the phrase "higher authority
generally mean in Agency cables?
Mr. Halley. Well, at that particular point in time,
think higher authority was a euphemism for the President and
top level policy decisionmakers at the NSC 40 Committee level.
Mr. Johnston. And again, you don't recall knowing in
the same time period, December 1963, that you were cabled that
the headquarters procedure was to present the infiltrasio
procedures: to higher authority.
Mr. Halley. Well, I have forgotten the date when this
transition took place. As of a fixed date, in the course
of this operation, we had to supply all of our infiltration
operations a month in advance. I'm sorry, I just don't
recall when that went into effect. Prior to that time wo were
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pretty well scheduling these ourselves, but then & request
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came in that we put these in a month in advance, bo as I
told you before, if I wanted to run a schedule for October, I
had to have it in in Washington with all of the Ops plane
by I think the 15th of September.
Senator Schweiker Did a former ambassador William
Pauley, a man called William Pauley, who at one time owned
properties in Havana and now living in Miami, aid he ever
finance some of the operations that you are aware of out of
Miami, William Pauley?
Mr. Halley. Yeh, I know BILL Paulay.. He was involved iny
in my time, in one specific operasional activity. I don't
think it would be proper to bay that he financed it, however
Senator Schweiker. This is the one voore people were
killed in a boat raid?
Mr. Halley. Well, we don't know what happened to thêm.
My recollection of the operation is that Bill Pauley was
approached by Lite Magazine, and this was Involved with in
Individual by the time of John Martino, because this has
My recently.
The Committee has asked me about this before
told them at first I couldn't remember the name, and I had
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to go back and conduct a file search, and I came up with.
John Marzano's name, who had been involved in gambling casin
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in Cuba.
Martino was in touch with a number of Cubans who
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claimed that they had access to two Borist missilb technicians
Pauley brought this operation to the Agency, and the Agency
agreed that we would cooperate with them in pursuit of this
operation.
Senator Schwelker And Time-Life did some funding for
it, took
Mr. Halley. Hell, they were involved, but they did not
fund it. My recollection is Pauley made the boat available,
the Flying Tiger, which was his yacht, we paid for the gas and
oil for that particidar boat, and we provided all of the stor
equipment that went into the operation. Pauley went on that
vessel down to the launch point. The men were launched in a
small infiltration boat, It took off, went off toward the
Cuban mainland, and were never seen or heard from since then.
We never had any reporting on them.
Senator Schweiker. Was Padley involved with other
operations with you folks, or is that the only one?
Mr. Halley. That is the only operation that he was
involved with the Agency. He, however, was very helpfel in
teries of providing advice on various people that he had kno
from his long involvement in Cubi, He was useful in providi
Introductions to various people that we wanted to meet..
recall on one occasion he introduced me to a prominent Cuba..
that I wanted to dost za brokered that.
1.
Pauley, on his own, gave money to various. Cuban groužek „.
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unrelated to what we were doing. He was also a participant
in the raising of the initial ransom for the members of
Drigade 2506.
Senator Scheiker. Here is an article ~ rather than me raad
It, I'll give you a chance to read it. It is Claire Booth
Luice. As you know, she is on the Foreign Intelligence AdvisoŁY
Board, and has been for some time, and at Colby was hex
....
chief of station when she was ambassador to Italy,
This
story came to me not through the paper, frankly, but from
Mrs. Luce personally, expressing her concern. It subsequentl
did appear in a paper and I did not release it. Mrs. Suce
specifically released it to Batty Beale, and the reason it is
rejuvant here is that from what I read here, the group she
is referring to is probably the DRE group or some part of
the DE group in New Orleans, and while that is not too clear.
she did an ociate Mr. William Pauley with it.. But that is
somewhat confused, bachake you said he wasn't involved in any
the sparation other than the one you mentioned..
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Cuba.
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Mr...
Malley, Well, I'm -- Mr. Pauley, I know Mr. Pauler
and Mrs. Ducd are friends. They see each other, or they si kr
I haven't seen them in a number of years, but they used to
be in the same social circurt, so I am sure that Mr. Pauler
recounted a war scory in his contacts, so she is probably
aware of the general operation to get the two soviets que o
That is the only operation that he ran with us during
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paragraphs I have outlined.
She has called me several times about it.
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stewardship of the station:
Senator Schweiker.
There is a vast difference of recollec-
tion between the two on what happened.
Sha very strongly
recollects that in addition to the thing that you described,
which is a matter of record, by the way, with the Senate
Committee, it is a matter of Committee record, in addition to
that, that this is in it also.
Rather than read the whole thing, you might read the
She feels very strongly about
Shots absolutely
certain of her information, and her Cuban source doesn't want
to talk for fear of his life.
(The Witness reads the document.)
Mr. Mallay, No, that doesn't ring any bolls.
I cannot
24
put that in any context,
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I think at one
Let me go back to this Pauley business.
time, one other thing that Pauley did for us, I think he
provided an opportunity for us to pick up some cargo in tho
Dominican Republic to provide cover for one of our vessels that
we were using at that time for infiltration operations in the
area but those are the only things that I can remember off
top of my head.
Senator Schweiker.
You see, where he says here that be
contact with a group, the story goes on to say that this
group supplied a tape and pictures of that contact, and thi
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FBI did not follow them up. which is a rather serious charge
itself, and that is why I wonder if there is some DRE relation-
ship here with Bringuler.
Maybe you can give us that case officer's name Seymour
Mr. Bolter. Which one?
Senator Schweiker.
The case officer for the ORS group.
It would have to be the one at the time when Oswald was
In New Orleans, which is when was that?
Mr. Johnston. The fall of 163.
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator Schweiker. Going on, I didn't follow the final
question on Debstada, your deca41 man to Customs.
Were you aware that he was doing some investigating
after the Kennedy assassination?
Mr. Halley. No, I don't have any firsthand recollection.
of that.
Senator Schweiker. And the way you were structured, woul
he be the logical person to, if somebody asked for either a
name check or some follow-up
Mr. Halley. He would have been the logical person
had something specific to pursue or he would have been th
logical person to put a question to if we were looking for:
atmospheric, you know, what the Cuban community was thinking
Senator Schwelker.. How about Julio Lobo?
Mr. Halley. He's the sugar káng.
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Senator Schweiker. He the sugar king there.
Did he assist with any of your operations, either finan
cially or in terms of his people or in terms of his organizati
Mr. Salley, My recollection of that, there was no direct
contact between us and Julio Lobe: We did have various
Cuban investigative and research groups that we were working
My belief is that one of these groups must have been
tapping Lobo for his knowledge of the sugar market, because
we were constantly making projections of where the sugar crop.
was going in Cuba, Decause that impacted on the stability of
Caban econoay. In other words, when it was a good crop, you
could figure that Castro's going to have millions of dolla
When he didn't have a good crop, this was going to ingactr
where he wanted to go with building the revolution.
Semtur Schweiker, There is another name tatt believ
had some relationship with him. maybe businesswise, fantes
Coyswell, de Caldwell.
Mr. Halley Caldwell. I think that was the fellow that
was oploped by the Agency it wasir.
Senator belweiker. Right.
Matboy who was
21
Sen Sehwelkýr.
What was his proper at that points
He was workday: ze in washington...
23
on the taban pujot to washingca,
tie was primarily cute
24
with economic activities and how pressure coula be put on th
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Cuban economy.
• Senator Schweiker. And how about an Antonio Veciana..
à Cuban name?
Mr. Halley,
Yeah, I think he's the owner, one of the
part owners in the restaurant in Miami called Las Violinas
Senator Schweiker. At the point he worked for
Mr. Halley. Could you spell the nexe ?
Senator Schweiker.
Maybe I'm not pronouncing it right.
Mr. Halley, 1 think that's the fellow who used tis
zun the restaurant called Dep Violins, and he was involvei
with a number of Cuban exile #DOUDÍ. I think he was conne
with the second frank of the Eacurbed, but that is off twe
top of my head.. We'd have to do a trace.
15.
Senator Schweiker. Did David Phillips, during your
tenure there, have any assignment in Cuba?
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What was his relationsalp at the time of this period?
David Phillipe? That's head of the Retired --
Ar. Halley. You, as charming is time he was station
in Mexiga City, and my vocollection was that he was wolw
la vovert operation actions again up out of Musica
City am. he may have s involved in operations against th
Little Vaguer a tiks
Cuban embassy in Mesto digi
2. ab xa the First part.
* know we had some travelers going nowy to maxigo Cit
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1 and their point of contact frequently was Dave Phillips, but
2 most of those fellows were dealing with propaganda distribution,
M
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but he could well also have worked against the installation.
At that time he was not the station chief. He was: A
secondary figure, I guess, at the station,
Senator Schwalker. Did Howard Hughes or his organization
or Intertel, assist you in any operations, and I am going to
exclude for the moment Mr. Maheu, who we know had a very
specific role, excluding the Mahes situation with Giancana
and Rosselll that I think you are familiar wity
11.
13
14
Hr. Halley
Senator Schwelker.
To your knowledge, did Howard Hughou
Intertel or any of his other groups or associations assist
or work with you in the Cuban operation?
Pr. Halley. Not with the Miami station that I a awaze
16
17
Senator Schweike
02
Well, I'm not talking about
Well,back here in Washington that could by,
but I have no knowledyd
the Miami context.
an only user it out #t
21
yho
Sentor Schweiker.
At one point in time, probably wher
first came ubontay there was a St. Colonel Samuel Kalv,
wara mikisaži attach to the juvana tubassy.
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Mr. Halley. Tas, it does,
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Senator Schweiker. What role was he playing when you came
aboard?
Mr. Halley. Uc either came about the same time that I
did or shortly after I arrived in Miand, and he was in fact.
the number two fellow at the Opa Locka debriefing center.
inter-agency debriefing center set up at Opa Locka
of the center was a CIA officer. Hi* principal deputy wa
Kale He was the general administrator of the program and he
supervised the military personnel who were on detail to thes
canter, and there were debriefing people there for positive
intelligence, and when the sound someone who was particular..
knowledgmably or had some operational exploitation, they was
(lay them to us.
5000* 03
12
23
Senator Nohiker.
14
15
Way he ever detailed to CIA or was
he strictly Army intelligence?
16.
17
Mr. Halley. No, at that time he was an Army officer
working on a joint project that we' detail assignment.
19:
was just sesioned to Opa Locka.
Renator Schweiker.
purely is, but working with your
22
24
25
dobperatively.
Mr. Malley, Well, mix what happened, unlike wage
would go on overseas, a organization was drawn ugy
sor tie dye Locka canter, and it was agreed that the tear 20
thi benzer walf be 11gned that was that
It was agreed that the deputy of the coaper would be a Sal
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officer.
Thereford Kale vas assigned to that. He continued
to receive his pay, quarters, and other allowance through the
military establishment.
Senator Schwolker What about when he was at the Havano
embassy?
You are talking about, I guess, after he left the Havana.
embassy.
Mr. Halley.. Yes. I am talking about the period 1962
forward, and as I recall, he must have been there up to the
end of my tenure there. I have forgotten when he left. # have
9
10
no knowledge of his activities in Havana.
11
13
That was before y
Sziły know chist he served in Havana, that he wan
a social site of a nuo of Uk office that I h
in the station, but had no firsthand knowledge.
Senator Schweiker
Now about Robert Brown or Colonel
wichols, the same question, Robert Brown?
Mr. Holley, Senator, you'll have to give me something
mors char Robert Brown. Twat doon give me anything.
sorry.
The other was what. Colonel stelutst
Gonator Felworker. Cutanel Nichols, He was also at
Havana sy at song in ci
Halley.. I would have no knowledge of him.
Senator Senwolkor.
Mosha a group called
Celal Fantas
Are you familiar with that group?
24
Me lley. I have heard the natio.
25
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Senator Schweiker.
And it was a project where two
American pilots were killed.
The group conducted some para
military operation.
Mr. Halley: That doesn't ring a bell, but the Celulo
Fantasma is a name that I've heað. I can't put it into aby
broader context for you. O certainly was not one of our
operations.
Benator Schweaker. That was really ny question.
9.
10
11
Do you recall - was there ampjona using the name of
cryptoname of Bishop for you at any point in time in terms of
the Cuban operations, either Morris bishop or some other
Bishow?
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13
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جمة
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28.
21
20
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24
Macloy. that numa doesn't mean anything to me.
Benator Sonseizer. Here is a sketch of a person.
Dots
this sketch look like anyone that might have been assonictec.
cuban operations, either pro-Castro or anti-Castro?
The Witness Tooks at a sketch.)
Mr. Halley. It doesn't. I mean, there is somethi
saxout the face that is liar, but i can't put a name tử,
It hul it doesn't ring any belts with my in relationship të
culas operation.
Senator Siweiker.
well ash Jeynour.
Seymour, how about you, any secollection?
A. Balten. Is it supposel to le Cuban or an Awericaxi
sonator Schweiker. I think an American, but I'm not n
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on that, someone who did do some work in the Cuban activities
supposedly on the anti-Castro side.
Mr. Bolten He has very regular features, so he could.
be almost anybody, you know.
And like John says, it is a sort of he could be famili
No, I wouldn't place him with anyone I know,
A
Senator Schweiker. Go ahead,
Mr. Johnston, Do you recali Director McCone visiting the
station in early December or mid-December of 19637
Mr. Halley. Mr. McCone made a couple of visits to
Florida. I'm not sure it would be fair to say that he
visited the station. My recollection of that is he came.co
Florida. He was put in the property that we had, we had
conversations with him out at that property, but he didn't
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14.
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come out to the physical plant, that is, our station prentse,
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and in most cases he was usually en zoute to or coming back
from somewhere.
6 2 0 0 0 0 9 2
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Mr. Johnston. Do you rocall such a visit in December of
18
1903?
19
Mr. A
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I can't pin. It down to that timing, is
other words, by memory is for come to Miami several times.
well, let's put it in the timeframe of «
Jo
short period after the assassation of President Kennedy.
Mr. Halley. 1 cannot put it aso the timeframe, I jus
All I can sell you is MeCase Down to Pterid on
can'
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a number of occasions.
You know, if you asked to what your
impression; I don't know, maybe three, four.
Mr. Johnston. Do you recall anyone from headquarters
4 goming down to visit with you in December 1963?
Again, this
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15.
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is shortly after the assassination of President Kennedy.
still
Mr. Halley. Do you have the chronology? Was Harvey
Mr. Johnston. No, it was Fitzgerald.
Mr. Halley. Okay, No, I don't, because Harvey periodie
when he was in used to come down at the time of the Orange
Bowl gase I to remember going to war Ozany Bowl game with
Harvey. so I would have to say so. I inte
But look, ayafa
ME, Johnston..
Well, let the just bruk: up-
Do you know did you have any discussions with anyone
Exot the headquarwrs staff about the effect of the assassi
qi President Kennedy on Cuban operations?
Malloy, as to wo ical that there
have been popo Mét el dission at him, but I don'
recall it. Yong Hhow, you have to que ship in this kind of
It was a stony scream of pole min from Bishinga,
text.
To Sta I came to tabington on a regular basis.
the talks when I would come up on 20 every two eks.
wahl Awool for six weeks, di
this was à vory active period.
25
I was working 14, 15, 16 w
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a day, seven days a week, and a lot of this is a blur to
So when you say do you remember McCone coming, yes, I for
remember that. Can you put it in a time frame of 7 to 8
December, no, I can't.
Mr. Johnston. Can you put it in the timeframe of shortly.
after the assassination of the President
Rr. Halldy. I can. You know, you asked me, did anybody
came down to visit you in the December timeframe.
I asked you bout who was the chief because I do recall going
to an Orange Dowl game with Marvay one your. Des cand down
fitzgerald and down a couple of times, but I don't respo
hi ever coming in the Christus timefrom, you know?
Johnaton. Do you recall having discussions with
and I take it your answer is yes do you recall discusiun
between you and someone from headquarters about the affect
President Kennedy's assassination on the Cuban operation?
lavy. I am sure that there were such disenssi
you how te is the program going to how are we sa
to be tasked..
But be you with Minta, angre, Washfutur or
Mimi, a combath what for you,
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Mr. Johnston. Do you recall such a discussion with
Mr. Helms?
Mr. Halloy. No, I have to come back to the basic point.
I don't recall this kind of specifle conversation with a
particular individual, but I am sure that these kinds of
conversations must have taken place with nomebody from Washing-
ton or when I was up here in Washington.
Mr. Johnston. Let me show you the cable that you booked
at prøviously beford we want on the record, which is WAVE cab
8130 of 24 dovember 1963, and the copy we have is barely
legible. The gist of that is the last numbered paragraph
reports information WAVE obtained on an individual named
Rodriguez in Dallas, and also. I this reports, if you san
read through the poor Xeroxing, that Rodrigpox was thought, wo
nedy.
My question being, where would you have gotten that
kind of information?
(The: Witness reads tho document.
Mr. Jallay... Well, to be lamust with you. I can't bead
we'd have to
the message.. It may read Paka 2, 2
20
go up and took up who the man in
27
thousanes of cryptoByars Accus my desk.
It books to me line orULË 2.
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20. Joh
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(Discussion off the record.)
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Halley.
HAVE traces, now, that indicates to me that
Whatever was done here was based on the material that was
passively in the files.
叠
Where dla material that was in our files.
We got material
:
5
that was in these filed from agent reporting, we got it from
5.
refugee debriefings, we got it from our, you know, from
7
sources in the Cuban community who were reporting on Cuban
難
groups. We got it on a monitoring of the Cuban press, and the
9 Spanish press in Miami, we got it from monitoring radio broad
so that it was this kind of a conglommTULC
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casts and so forth.
et information.
clip
14.
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let's take a name, you know, like Rodrigues..
hamo bike Rodriguez in the card file, there might be two
indies of Rodriguezes. You know, if you were looking for
Specific Rodriguez, Carlos Rafael Rodriguez, you know, someth
like that, then you'd have to pin it down, in other words,
age, what his membership was in the party and things like tha
so that indicates to me that we found this material in the
A
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tho the source is. I CON L KHUW We'd have to look
the crypt as the true have, and anybe even zien teo
tell yo).
Johnston. kif that souma is liable to be a Cub
exile in Nand
dax corrouuf
Mr. Halley, well, hot being able to read the thing.
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don't even want to speculate on it.
Mr. Johnston.
Mr. Halley.
Mr. Johnston.
Did you have sources in Alpha 657
tes, at times there were sources in Alphia 64.
Did you have sources in SNFET
Mr. Halley. At times, yes.
Johnston. Did you have sources, in the time period
we are talking about, November '63 through the spring of 19642
Mr. Halley. well, I would have to bay the probability
Is high that we had scire sort of a source in that group, but
I'd have to go back, you know, and check the record, and it
will have to be researched, but my recollection to that is
We would have sources in that group one way of another.
JohnstoL. Are you awary of a Cuban exile organe
ou anti-Castro organization called the Christian Democratic
Nuvement, or MUC
Mr. Halloy
Yea, I am,
16
Did you have sources in MDC?
17
Hr. Halley.
164, we did.
Johnstits.
and in Never do you
21
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whe was the leadership of Hudp
alley off the top of head, h, but yon azo
There is a book, we put out & book att time which waá a
Bron' No, of all of the whi-dast rods that make
Located in the the past will with
prately. There were 250 sono-odd exile groupings, and w
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Phil
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didn't have all 250 penetrated, if you really want to know the
answer to that, well have to get the book, look up the dates,
and try to see who the leadership were.
Nr. Johnston. Does that book contain the names of the
leadership?
Mr. Halley. Yes.
names of the major lead
In most of the cases it contains the
Mr. Johnston. tid you have that book at approximately the
timeperiod of November 63 through December 637
Mr. Halley. The book was put out and revised several
times.
I just have trouble coming into specific dates.
etr Johnstoa. I ppreciate that fast. I understand
There is just e Sex of information on
*
things now dominy out and the only way I know to answer yo
in a prudent manter i say that there is such a group.
steer you to the information. You know, we can look it up
for you.
415 Fust St, S.; Washington, 2003
7 6 27 0770704
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42, St. D.C. 20033.
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(The Witness leads the document.]
Mr. Halley. No, I don't. You know, the cryptonyn AMKOB
rings a be11 with me. 1 as familiar with the cryptonym.
specifically AMKNOB 1 is 7 can't tell you, Reading the
contents of this message, you know, this is a message dated
4 December 63, I would say that we got a message in secret
writing via the mail from some soured in Cuba, and be is
this Information.
Who he is, what reliability we placed on a particular
10
thing
Mr. Johnston What's what I'm asking you.
13
tell you.
Halley, what andas head forth, a
*****>co, you know, get the file. I would
Lo read It and she what the file says.
15
16
Jonson Wad in connection with the assassina tint,
President Kennedy, when you got information like that, you
viewed your responsibility as what
17
Essentially cutting it to. qdquarters.
18
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www the focal point bar ility together all kinds of duty.
that were led there
And Agdal the mabsbance of this in v
sqyres in Daou reporting to you on jessibly sezing Gawald;
apable C istina os
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will get the file and t says that this was an S message
from a guy in Mexico or something. I'm just reading a messzgé
and deductive analysis of what I know the case to have been
at the time.
Mr. Johnston. Well, that's a correct statement of the
message, is that right?
Mee Halley, Yes, I'd hate to go on the basis that we
recorded material accurately. Therefore, by the way this.
wessøyv is written, by analysis hashing to conclude that
it was a source inside Coba
S phaston.
Then I put be you sind question in regard
pros y apung shrods in Cuba,
though you were well eagles out of Lana, you recall
wy wetion being taken through the WAVE station to tay soyink
alley Now, with a sauce like this it is cance
You'd have to look back at the file, and where there are
tional questions, you know like win are these people,
You may 30 glatify the retarding that you are receivi
I s't skrif ff the tip or 17 ſund.
7. Qual Sunt go back.
WAC
Volumaton.
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SAVE on date: 30 Nolimber 1962-
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or of receiving that information?
Mr. Halley. I would have to say because of the Indicator
on here, the communication system was very reliable, that
this message was received, because that's what it shows, but
personally have no recollection of this message.
Hr. Johnston. Conrad WAVE have made a contribution to th
report?
Mr. Halley. Well, again, I have to go back in the
It says the above is from a "KMULSER diplomat.
10
that that was from a Mexican diplomat. Italian?
11
12
14
IG.
then that would decemna whacher we could have made
#ribution.
home when we is WAVÉ. had as
recruited agents Mexican and Italian diplomats in Havanam
That cryptonya doesn't ring any bells with me. Now you
to go back and look it up, look in the tile, and that wou
tell you whether we were zuming the juy or hot.
Mr. Johnston: Ts that the only evaluation you could
made 7
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It might that
Sone 1 the motion we ha
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my
Mr. Ralley. or what was the message, how was it sent,
what was the text of the message.
Senator Schwoiker.
What was your relationship with a
group called the tree Cuba Committee that I believe was organi
through the Hulle Company here in washington?
Mr. Halley, Could you give me some additional informati
Was this Bethel, Paul Bethel, the Free Cuba Committee?
Senator elkör. Well, again I believe Mcs. Luce
was involved with this Committee as well, and there were sonic
othera
who in tal Nothels
10
11
12
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14
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haul arhol was an who h
caplayed by fuik van and later cand) to (un
And is very weave in one of these Cuboa.
Senater Schweiker. Well, I'm sure. It might havi
teen. I don't have all the named..
Mr. Halley. Well, the free Cuba Committee, as such,
* to go with L, strike a responde..
Work out the suprati
call, you have to wire che
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Senator Schweiker:: And there were all kinds of Cuban
Committees.
Mr. Halley. That
right, and therefore, unless there..
a häme that goes with it, I have trouble dredging it out.
Senator Schwoiker.
All right.
1 meant, did your work involve any working relationship
to the Malden Company in Washington?
Did you use them in any relationship at all?
Mr. Malley. No, my knowledge of the Bollen Company
doesn't start il about 1972.
Chat
Senater Schweiker. Okay, I'll bes somebody else handia
Now about the air fly for Vita Cittee?
your program, what role o relationship forgetting Odwald s.
did you have with the wince they obviously had some forvi
intelligence relationship?
Mr Halley. None'. Za ottir words, that: that
what an organization that really of Interest to the Pat.
job all have a dust,
8
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American flight coming into the United States, and the
refugees coming to identify agents on that, identify agonis
who might be trying to penetrate our paramilitary teams or
one of our collection of operations,
we also were locklny at Cuban intelliqunce officers wig
were stationed overseas, in other words, could our debriefing
of knowledgeable people result in Gor identifying, fec's say.
the DGI guy in Maxico City of to Madrid? We would then
mount an operation of the basis of that to recruit him, t
maingain him LA place as a source within the Cuban intelligcu.
survive. So it was that kind of commterintelligence appearan
Wow the fof the Cuban Service, Barbare je
* the blow, you know people come wild w
Alexia loot at that and see whether we could i
G
16
17
Senator Babwuiker.
I have just a few small s
then I'd like to ask you for some advice off the record, wow."
you just give as some quadance.
On the record here, how about an organization sabied
CUSA, Co.,
bellate t were an at
lg down some its a Lazy mids.
2
Water Semeaker, de the lays of de
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tied in to day the CIA.
No
that doesn't ring any bells with me.
Senator Schweiker.
When there is a Paul Helowell,
Mr. Halley. He's
ai
5
it's
Senator Schweiker.
Plorida banker. He was involved in
6 paramilitary or some kind of operations.
7
Mr. Halley. Well, there were two phosos. Paul Halowell
8. was involved in the Bay of Pigs operation, In cleaning up some
$.2
11
13
14
1.5
16
17
claims that the families of one or two of the pilots mad who.
crashed involved in the Day of Pigs. And I would have known
that through the file.
Walawell fatus was in 4 at the ti
I was in the Alami station, and a provi, as I cœcall,
he had reul cake icetests, banks, and he helped as de
salve cover companies through whian ve big or leased #ach
things as dock space at marines for boats and Items like I
Saustor Conwolker. Whays.
Do you have aperity wise the record?
19.
Soli
Just For thi
How mujer a ruby cut you have with Twil delowe177
any personal Sontacts with
ally, I collection would be that I probably
And my Nima við know, you
24, at that our agor cover in
I was a vice president wi
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„ÁM Fra Sreekage, DC. 2000):
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jawa ba
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that company. As a resul
business social community.
traveled extensively in the
At that point we had one of the
Larger covert payrolls in South Miami, and I was a member of
4
10:
11.
12
13
a number of clubs, and people like Relowell I would meet
ac pocktail parties or dinners, you know, of the yacht club
that I belonged to or whatever, but officially, in terms of
business sense, I only recall talking with Helowell Ewico. 1
think.
Senator Schweiker. Would he look anything like that.
picture?
The Withane looks as the sketch.)
Daley No. At that time he would have been much
Mr. #cnston.
14
Did you ever discuss die Kennedy ansåndk-
nation with him?
2:6
18
37
Mr. Halley. No. wouldn't have, I wouldn't have
about that My recollection by the wind of things that I w
have talked about with Helowe you have been the form
38
10
20
Basta and things liku
of and cover company, the purchase of boat, the restal D
Term lease vê you know Bet pieces o aureage for thabi
's about what I recal
21.
ac thu tive.
22
at Navalible bit of
odbyt alun to wit may collection of conversati
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within but you don't recall whiecher you talkod
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Pivo -
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10
11
10
16
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to McCone or Helms about a connection between the Kennedy
assassination and the Cuban operation.
ME. Halley. Well, you know, some of thead things make
fferent kinds of impace on you. findan, helowell was in the
part of the county where we were located was an important
figure, He had a bank not too far from where we were located
mony of bag people did chai banking with him, and forth,
And he's a name that sticks out.
Jonatan. I thought that. Helms and Mr. Medione.
would also make an impression.
Mr. Bally. Well, one, yes, you know, I want to vir
Marka 1 finger vÌ He washington and other places, and
i toate meas this co ba bla Visit the
abave zl, but you as necessarily recall t
've had low its at sti
tival 1've been In From Miurais, I've been involved in
dial visits and Vice Preaidential visits, and you. Bu
well when he receives to bitna or
2 nov 14 We mid &xrrà
set date; a
wanita 30 kupata tee
you to win
3:67818017 34 padatan an upang fra ALPINAS.
fo wwxher she
Bunny as the pavers operatius, agaius eft,
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Mr. Halley. I don't recall it.
Mr. Johnston. Is it you don't recall such a discussion,
having such a sowpion, or you have a recollection and your
recollection is there were no discussions.
Mr. Halloy.. Mo, I don's recall such a discussion. That'
what I've said several tings, I assume that such discussions
took place, but Frankly, I don't recall thaṁ.
We
Senator Schweiker. All right, that's all we hav
appreciate your cooperation and your coscitsony. I do want
to ask for so. Quidance off the record.
100 o'clock p... the intervice in the
above-untitled etter was concluited t
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