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Date: 09/14/94
Page: 1
JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM
IDENTIFICATION FORM
AGENCY INFORMATION
AGENCY : HPSCI
RECORD NUMBER :
135-10001-10253
RECORDS SERIES :
AGENCY FILE NUMBER :
ORIGINATOR
FROM :
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TITLE :
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
:
ROCK
CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO
DECLASSIFICATION 
AND/OR
RELEASE OF CIA INFORMATION
IN THIS DOCUMENT 
AS SANITIZED
кріпарга9
DATE : 04/03/75
PAGES: 22
SUBJECTS :
TRANSCRIPT OF DEPOSITION OF FRANK STURGIS BY ROBERT B. OLSEN AND JAMES
N. ROETHE (PAGES 73 THROUGH 152 ONLY).
DOCUMENT TYPE :
CLASSIFICATION
PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
: T
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS :
ATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/14/94
OPENING CRITERIA :
Postponed
COMMENTS :
2025 Release under the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of
1992
[R]
-
ITEM IS RESTRICTED
NW 78141
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PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
CCIA ACTIVITIES
ORIGINA
Sturgis
1 of 2
Thursday, April 3,
1975
Washington, D. C.
крічарг99
CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO
DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR
RELEASE OF THIS DOCUMENT
AS SANITIZED
де
8 Aug
94
pek 7381, 84-85
91, 143-152
143-152)
NW 78141
WASHINGTON, D.C.
410 First Street, S.E., 20003
Phone
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WARD & PAUL
Verba
Spoken
volant words fly-\
scripta
manent
written
words endure
TM
FAIRFAX, VIRGIN
4055 Chain Bridge Rd., 2.
Phone
(703) 273-2400
TOP SECRET
73
1
the attempted assassination on two occasions of Fidel Castro
2
and all the top military commanders that used to come to the
Air Force Base. And remember that I had another job at the Air
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4 Force Base training the military police. And I also was still
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Chief of Security.
MR. OLSEN: Let me ask you, are you telling us that you
participated as a Cuban Air Force officer, and Chief of Training
military police and security and intelligence operations in the
Cuban Air Force, that participated in an attempt to assassinate
Castro?
MR. STURGIS: Yes, on two occasions, plus other
military officials.
MR. OLSEN: When did those attempts take place, during
the early part of 1959?
--
MR. STURGIS: Yes sir. I would say the first attempt
and I set it up as an exercise, that if I was to get the
--
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green light which I did not anticipate that I would,
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because
in
there is such a thing as getting a green light and there is
another thing of doing something without the green light,
other words, they do it but don't get caught but I did set it
up as
an exercise, and I did have men on several occasions,
like I said, as a training exercise, stationed at the gate with
me there, with men stationed on the rooftops of the homes,
my
excuse was for the protection of the entourage, Fidel and the
military commanders that he had with him, he had a hometown
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bunch with him when they came to the Air Force, even with
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General Bayo. And I felt that if I would get the nod to assas-
sinate them, I could do it within 30 seconds, high tail it and
everything.
MR. OLSEN: Was there something that you had drawn
up in the way of exercise as the result of the discussions with
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the other Air Force officials?
MR. STURGIS:
The Air Force and Army officials.
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This
information was given to the American Embassy. I again did
these exercises to try to get a diversion that if I would get
the nod to do the execution, that I would have some means of
diversionary tactics to draw attention away from the people who
did the execution, and that I was there with my people to prevent
it because of the security.
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MR. OLSEN:
Did you discuss these plans in advance with
Colonel Nichols?
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MR. STURGIS: 'No sir. At the very I would say about
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six weeks of the revolution was over with there was a great deal
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of discontent among many of the top ranking military officers.
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I knew these people personally, I was in with them at those
meetings and various places, and that they discussed, we all
discussed the assassination then. And some said, well, there
are some officers that will be with the group, Fidel and Raoul
and Che, that were not really with them. So they were split
on the idea of assassinating them. So they asked my opinion.
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killed.
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And I told them, well, in war innocent people do get
If you are going to assassinate the man, the best place
to do it is at the front gate when he approaches, and to just,
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if there is seven or eight jeeps, just to give everyone in all
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of the seven or eight jeeps, whether they are pro or anti
--
if
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you are going to go ahead and kill him, people are going to get
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hurt.
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MR. OLSEN: I didn't understand whehter you answered
my question as to whether or not you had discussed in advance
with Colonel Nichols.
MR. STURGIS: No sir, after the meeting with the
different military commanders, I reported to Nichols the type
of discussions that were made at those meetings.
MR. OLSEN: And what was Colonel Nichol's response?
MR. STURGIS:
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Can we go off the record?
MR. OLSEN:
If you want.
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MR.
STURGIS:
Let's go off the record.
He told me to stand by, don't do anything, stand by,
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stall.
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MR: OLSEN:
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And did you then stand by and stall?
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MR. STURGIS: Yes sir, I not only stood by, but then
I proceeded to do these exercises without asking Colonel Nichols,
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I did those on my own,
to prepare a special group of men to set
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this up.
MR. OLSEN:
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You prepared the exercise. Did you ever
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get the green light from the people in Castro's Air Force and
Army to go ahead with an attempt?
MR. STURGIS: Oh, they wanted to do it, sir. The
only thing that held them back was me, I am the only one that
held them back, because they wanted to kill him in a minute.
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MR. OLSEN: And so they ere urging that this be done,
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but you were holding back on it?
MR. STURGIS: Right.
MR. OLSEN: And were you holding back on it at least
in part because of the request made by Colonel Nichols that you
would hold up on it, and not do anything?
MR. STURGIS: Right.
MR. OLSEN: Was any actual attempt made now to carry
out an assassination on Premier Castro?
MR. STURGIS: The only attempt was what I was doing
in these exercises.
MR. OLSEN: So that there was some planning, but no
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attempt?
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MR. STURGIS: Well, let me say this. We are on a very
thin piece of string there, because I was several times making
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those exercises, and I was really, because of my high position
in the military. and because of the things that I knew
must understand that I did break into the headquarters of the
Cuban Army at Columbia Barracks, and did steal documents out of
there. And I also at my own headquarters, in my files, I did
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and you
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1.
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photograph some things that were in my files from the past regime
that was there, but also of other officers that were there that
I could not trust, I wanted to see what kind of reports and
things that were made. So I did photograph those. So I did
make a breakin.
MR. OLSEN: What am trying to do, Frank, is to draw
a distinction, if I can, between some plans for, some setting up
of exercises that would be preparatory to an attempt to assassi-
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nate Premier Castro, Che Guevara and Raoul Castro and others that
might be with them. I am trying to distinguish that kind of
planning and preparation for an actual attempt to carry it out.
MR. ROETHE: Were there any shots ever fired?
MR. STURGIS: No sir. As a matter of fact, in order
to avoid that, because my people wanted to do it so badly, I had
to take the ammunition away from them just to contain them.
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MR..ROETHE: Was this an exercise that was going to be
was this going to be a shooting?
MR. STURGIS: Oh, yes.
MR. ROETHE: So it was not a bombing or anything of
this sort, strictly a shooting?
MR. STURGIS: A shooting.
MR. OLSEN: How soon before you left Cuba did this
setting up of the exercises take place?
weeks.
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MR. STURGIS: It was within, I would say, four to six
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MR. OLSEN: Before you left?
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MR. STURGIS: No, four to six weeks after we took
over the country, July 1, four to six weeks was the first
attempt. That was in the last of January or the first week in
February 1959, four or five weeks.
MR. OLSEN: Did this fever about assassinating Castro,
Raoul Castro and Guevara, subside after a little while?
MR. STURGIS: Oh, no.
MR. OLSEN: Did it keep on going all the time while
you were in Cuba?
MR. STURGIS: Yes sir. I did arrange to train the
same men for another attempt at assassination of him in the
headquarters of the Air Force on the second floor.
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MR.
ROETHE:
Before you go on to that, why did you
never make an attempt the first time, why did you hold back?
MR. STURGIS: I was waiting for a nod from Nichols.
MR. ROETHE: And you never received that nod?
MR. STURGIS: I never received that.
MR. ROETHE: What got you started into a second
attempt to try a different type of assassination?
MR. STURGIS: Yes, it would be a different plan to
assassinate him. This came, I would say the last part of
February, if I am not mistaken. Things came to a fever pitch.
Even the American Government, through other agents inside of
Cuba, in the military and so forth, were getting a lot of
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information about the Communist activity. And Fidel was coming
on his big thing, you know, about talking against the Americans.
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And this was creating a lot of dissension with some of the top
military brass.
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MR. OLSEN:
That is, the military brass of the
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Cuban Government?
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MR. STURGIS: Of the Cuban military, yes. And at the
same time I am trying to recruit Commander Camelo Cienfugo.
MR. OLSEN: You had attempted to recruit him?
MR. STURGIS:
I attempted to recruit Commander Camelo
Cienfugo, and also Commander Almejera. He was the National
Chief of Police.
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of the Army
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MR. OLSEN: And who was the first one, Cienfugo?
MR. STURGIS:
I think Raoul was the Chief of the Armed Forces.
MR. OLSEN: Did you succeed in recruiting them?
MR. STURGIS: I met them at the Capri Hotel, where
the show as at. And I got them stoned out of their minds. And
Commander Camelo Cienfugo was the Chief
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we discussed money, how they would be willing to do, and so
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what I was talking about.
forth. I didn't want to get into it too much, because I had
Camelo Cienfugo lined up more, he was thinking more in line with
Commander Almejeira got stoned out
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of his mind. And he just put his head on the table and went
to sleep. That was it. And so I had a hard time keeping Camelo
Cienfugo awake.
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MR. ROETHE: At hose request were you trying to recruit
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these gentlemen?
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MR. STURGIS:
Remember Embassy told me, please try to
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recruit agents for them.
MR. OLSEN: You were attempting to recruit people who
would provide the information for the Embassy?
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MR. STURGIS: To provide agents for the American
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Embassy.
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MR. ROETHE: You were not recruiting them especially
for assassination attempt?
MR. STURGIS: No. Now, Camelo gave me enough informa-
tion that night where I brok into the Chief of the Army head-
quarters
--
he was Chief of the Army. I broke into their files,
and I did photograph and steal documents.
MR. OLSEN: What did you do with those documents?
MR. STURGIS: I turned them over to the others.
MR. OLSEN: To Colonel Nichols?
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MR. STURGIS:
Yes.
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MR. ROETHE:
Were you operating here now for Colonel
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Nichols, or do you know if you were operating for CIA?
Who was
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the creator of this policy, if you know, Colonel Nichols as a
diplomat? Was he a diplomat at that time?
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MR. STURGIS:
Colonel Nichols was the American Military
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Air Attache, which could be a cover for the CIA.
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MR. OLSEN: You don't know if he was CIA or not?
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MR. STURGIS:
No.
=
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Again I say, nobody shows if they
are CIA, unless you are working yourself as an employee.
MR. OLSEN: Let me turn here, Frank, to this area.
Were you ever by Colonel Nichols requested to organize any
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activity other than recuriting people to act as agent for the
American Embassy, were you ever asked to carry out any kind of
activity in Cuba?
MR. STURGIS: No sir.
MR. OLSEN: You were never asked to carry out any
assassination?
MR. STURGIS: No sir.
MR. OLSEN: Were you ever asked to carry out any
attempt to overthrow the Castro Government?
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MR. STURGIS: Well, let's not say overthrow the
Castro Government. Colonel Nichols was very much, in his
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thinking, in the discussions with him, against the Castro
Government. But then here you have a man that goes by the book.
MR. OLSEN: Let me ask you this. Were you ever asked
to carry out any, action in Cuba on behalf of the American
Embassy?
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MR. STURGIS: No sir.
MR. OLSEN: Or Colonel Nichols?
MR. STURGIS: No sir.
MR. ROETHE: So your reaking in and obtaining those
documents was something that you did on your own for information
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MR. OLSEN: After you came back from Cuba at the end
of June 1959 did you then settle in the Miami area?
MR. STURGIS: Yes sir.
MR. OLSEN: Did you take up employment in some normal
job in Miami, or did you become involved right away?
MR. STURGIS: I was not employed, sir.
MR. OLSEN: Did you engage in any business for your-
self at that point?
MR. STURGIS: Yes sir.
MR. OLSEN: Before we get to that, when you left Cuba,
did you manage to take with you any substantial amount of money
or wealth?
MR. STURGIS: No sir. I took some documents here that
beloned to Commander Ricardo Lorie in his preparation to leave
Cuba and come to exile. I helped to arrange for the escape
of the Chief of the Air Force and his wife. As a matter of fact,
I made contact with the American Embassy to see if they would
accept him in the Embassy. And I was told by the Embassy people
So I had to come here to make the arrangements for his
escape with his brother Sergio Diaz Bruil, who in fact himself
personnaly went to a yacht basin, Bertrand's Basin and rented
no.
a boat, I believe it was a sailboat. With the plans that both
he and myself made, I proceeded to Cuba to pick up his brother,
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the Chief of the Air Force.
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MR. ROETHE: Before we get back here in ths US, the
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of the mountains and in and out of the US.
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MR. OLSEN:
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activities?
פו
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Frequently as a part of your revoluntionary
MR. STURGIS: In order for me to get very close with
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Fidel personally, I went through a great risk in buying guns
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and equipment and smuggling guns and equipment to Cuba, both
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by air, by automobiles, and in Key West by the ferry. And I had
an elaborate system made up.
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MR. OLSEN: Let's go into that just a little bit. We
are going back into the revoluntionary period, before the
revolution succeeded, while you were working for Castro, while
he was up in the hills. Who did you buy guns from in the US?
MR. STURGIS: I bought guns in Alexandria, Virginia.
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ARMCO.
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MR.
OLSEN: From whom?
MR. STURGIS: I believe the name of the company was
And the owner was an ex-CIA agent.
MR. OLSEN: Named what?
MR. STURGIS:
forget.
MR. ROETHE: Was this ostensiby a private enterprise?
MR. STURGIS: At least I thought it was a private
enterprise.
MR. OLSEN: He asked, was it ostnsibly a private
enterprise. Was it actually a private enterprise?
MR. STURGIS: Let me say this here. Can I go back a
little bit, Mr. Olsen?
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And he did get the money.
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MR. OLSEN: That is the kind of information that I
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have been seeking. I am trying to pin down what the money
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was for, who told it was CIA money, and what steps were taken
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that led to your getting the money.
Were there any other operations or expenditures that
you had which you feel you are on strong, sound ground in
saying were financed by the CIA?
you will.
MR. STURGIS:
was asked to do an assassination.
MR. OLSEN: By whom?
MR. STURGIS: Can I hold back on that?
MR. OLSEN: No, I would prefer that you tell us,if
MR. STURGIS: It never was carried out.
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MR. OLSEN: That is all right.
I am
MR. STURGIS: I was contacted by this agent
trying to go ahead and think of the date again, because again
I will say, I had notes, and I keep them so far, and then I
destroy them. And I did tell the Senate Watergate Committee
that a friend of mine who was a CIA agent contacted me and asked
me if I would do an assassination. And I told him, yes, I
would. He said, good. Then, I will pass it on to my superior.
And he made contact with me later, at a later date. I believe
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we had
--
I am not sure
I think we had either lunch or
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dinner at some ranch house.
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MR. ROETHE: Is this in Miami?
MR. STURGIS: Yes.
MR. OLSEN: First of all, can you go back and tell
me when you were approached by this friend of yours.
MR. STURGIS: This is why I say, I can't remember
by the exact date, and maybe by talking
MR. OLSEN: How about, if you give us the season
of what year?
MR. STURGIS: The seasons in Miami are all along all
the year around.
MR. ROETHE: How about just the year?
MR. STURGIS: I can't remember the year.
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MR. ROETHE: Are we talking about after you
this
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is after you got back from Cuba, obviously.
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MR. STURGIS: Yes, it had to be
--
let me see if I
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can narrow it down just about what year. Let's see. It had
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to be either before the Bay of Pigs, which is 1961, or after
the Bay of Pigs, which again could be 1961. So I would say
approximately it would be 1961.
MR.OLSEN: Then, where were you approached?
MR. STURGIS: In Miami.
MR. OLSEN: And is this somebody, Frank, for
the moment, let's defer to your wishes, or your reservations,
at least, by naming them. But is this somebody whom you
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MR. STURGIS: No, sir.
MR. OLSEN: Is it somebody who you knew to be a
contract agent of the CIA?
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NW 78141
MR. STURGIS: No, sir.
All I knew is that he was an
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agent, and at a later date; it was proven that he was an
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agent. So my contacts with this man throughout the years,
how
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he worked, my close contact with him, in Miami, the way of
operation, the way he handles himself, the people that he
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was in close contact with, that the top political and military
people who were in exile that he was in touch with, the forma-
tion of the Bay of Pigs itself before the invasion,came
through this particular man. He was part of the forming of
this
--
at least of the Revolutionary Council. And I was
approached by him and I told Sam about it. I said, Sam, what do
you think? The idiot I hope this never gets publicized.
--
MR. OLSEN: Trust us.
MR. STURGIS: I said, this idiot took me out, and
we had some lunch, and he asked me if I wanted to do an
assassination, or if I would do an assassination attempt for
the outfit.
And I looked him square in the face and I told him,
why did you come to me? And he says, well, Frank, like, who
else? You are a man that the Chief knows your background, and
I know your background, and I know you are capable. And you
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But the thing is, would you be interested?
And I said, yes, I would be.
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MR.OLSEN:
Did he talk to you about a
sum of
money?
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MR. STURGIS: No, no money was
--
the discussion
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of money was not involved in it, because I would not do any-
thing for money. And he knows better than to ask me, unless.
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it would be, Frank, what do you need for your expenses?
MR.OLSEN: Who was the target of this assassination?
Was it Fidel Castro?
MR. STURGIS: No. I don't know. What happened was
that I had another meeting with him, and he said he would
contact his Chief, and he would
and he told me to contact
him later on, and I think he gave me a certain day to contact
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him, and I said OK. You must remember that, how I know this
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man as an agent, because he does the same things as I do,
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in his wife, he types away, or at least, he has a wife who
types away, he makes all the reports, and stacks them in a
file cabinet. Ihave heard him talk to his case officer on
the telephone. And to me that was very stupid of him in doing
that even to me who was his friend. That is a stupid way of
doing things.
Because he did not suspect that was in touch
with Sam, he cannot know. And the only time that he suspected
that had anything to do with CIA is when we were in prisɔn,
and the man on the television said, yes, he used to work for the
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MR. OLSEN: When you say CIA, you were talking about
the Watergate, not the other agent and me?
MR. STURGIS: I am talking about the agent and me
who
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was part of the Watergate group. And he was dumfounded and
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said, what, you work for CIA? And I said, yes, sir, you dumb
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bastard you, I was turning you in to my case officer.
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MR. OLSEN: So neither one of you suspected
--
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MR. STURGIS: I knew he was an agent, but I didn't
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know that I was in contact
I never used the word
--
or
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at least I don't think I did, and I hope I haven't used it
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today
--
thatI said I was
an employee of CIA.
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MR. OLSEN: No, I haven't even said that you were
an agent of the CIA.
F
.MR. STURGIS: Or that I was connected with the CIA.
MR. OLSEN: Now, who was the target of this conver-
sation about assassination?
MR.STURGIS: I had a second meeting with him at
the Ranchhouse, and he told me, he says, well, there is
interest, Frank. He said, about this assassination, and I
said, fine. I said.
There
And then he started to questioning, how would you
do it? And I said, how do you mean how I would do it?
are several ways of trying to do assassination. The things
have to know is who the person is, that is number 1, it is
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important, and where the person is at, which is important.
And then, I will have to go ahead and go to the place where
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this man lives or what have you, after I know this information.
And I said then, I can go ahead and tell you how I can do
it. And he said, with a body, this and that, he will be
discovered, you know we can't be connected with it. And I
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said, well, if you are worried about that, you do it. And he
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said, well, I can't do it. And I said, OK, beautiful. And I
want
I wanted to tell you something, I will do this,
because you are a friend of mine, and because you asked me.
But I will want more than that. And he said what is that? I
said I want it from somebody higher than you, from somebody
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with authority.
If you tell me and you are my friend, and
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I believe you
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has some authority.
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but I want it more from somebody else that
You have a case officer.
I want your case officer to tell me to do an
assassination plot, and I will do it. But coming from you, you
are my friend, my buddy, but I have got to have more than
that for my protection.
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MR. OLSEN: Did he ever put you in contact with
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his case officer?
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MR. STURGIS: I knew who his boss was.
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MR. OLSEN: Who was his boss?
MR. STURGIS:
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Edwardo.
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Wait just a minute. I am sorry..
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there. I said the wrong thing.
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I could be wrong
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If I am going after the Bay of Pigs invasion, if
this did happen, as far as the date is concerned, after the
Bay of Pigs invasion, Edwardo did quit the operation and go
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on some other assignment or what have you. So that means
he was no longer in the Miami area. So this part I had to
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get a new case officer.
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MR. OLSEN: Edwardo left Miami before the Bay
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of Pigs, didn't he?
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MR. STURGIS: He left after
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well, I don't know
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I am sorry. Because there is a possibility that he may have
been either in Miami or he may have been in the Headquarters
But I can't pin it down because I don't know
in Washington.
exactly where he was at.
MR. OLSEN: Did he ever make contacts with this man's
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case officer?
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MR. STURGIS: No, sir, because it had to be one of
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two people, it either had to be Edwardo, whom I had never met,
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or it had to be possibly Jim Knowles) after Edwardo left.
MR. OLSEN: Did (Jim Knowles) take his place, then?
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MR. STURGIS: I believe so, I believe (Jim Knowles)
did take his place as this party's case officer.
MR. OLSEN: And then, you did not actually have any
contact with his case officer?
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MR. STURGIS: When I told him that, I think I kind
of stung him a little bit. And he said, well, OK, all right.
Then, you will go through with it? And I said certainly, I will
I said,
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go through with it, I don't care who the hell it is.
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you let me know. And hopefully, I was thinking of Fidel
Castro, because I could have snuck into Cuba, I have done it
so many times, and I would have taken a crack at killing
Fidel.
MR. ROETHE: I missed something when I was out of the
room. I take it you did not know the identity of the person
whom you were being asked to assassinate?
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MR. STURGIS: No, sir, I did not. I asked him
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you see, I didn't publish it, in other words, I was told no
publicity. I was told, because Sam says, go ahead and work
with him, and he said, let me know what is progressing.
MR. ROETHE: Is Sam what you would call your case
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officer?
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MR. STURGIS: Sam is my contact, the man I was
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connected with.
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MR.ROETHE:
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MR. ROETHE: And you would always go to him before
you would go ahead with some action like this?
MR. STURGIS: Oh, exactly. I wouldn't do anything
unless I received an OK from somebody.
Did you have any idea that this had
~~ything to do with Cuba?
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MR. STURGIS:
It always had to do with Cuba.
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MR. ROETHE: You were aware that this assassination
had something to do with Cuba?
MR. STURGIS: I was thinking that it did, I could
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have been wrong.
I was thinking that it could have something
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to do with Cuba.
MR. ROETHE: Did Sam seem to know anything about
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the subject -- about this, or did this seem to come as
a
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surprise?
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MR. STURGIS: It was a surprise. He was surprised.
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that my friend approached me on something like this. And he
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said, don't say, no. I said, I will do it to anybody. I said
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Sam, if it is all right, if this case officer Sam said, tell
me who the case officer is, and if it is true, OK.
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MR. ROETHE: What was your motivation for saying
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that you would do this? ..
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MR. STURGIS: You know what a whore is?
MR. ROETHE: Do I know what a whore is?'
MR. STURGIS: Yes.
MR. ROETHE: I guess I do.
MR. STURGIS: I don't mean to go ahead and question
you. I am sorry. But in intelligence a whore is an agent that
they would want that would do anything. But he has got to be
motivated by patriotism. And that he would do anything for
his country, regardless of what it was.
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MR. ROETHE: Assuming that it was something that an
official request made on behalf of the government?
MR. STURGIS: Well, you would think that if a case
and you would be surprised how powerful a case
officer
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officer
what power a case officer has in his hands.
He
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has got a lot of power.
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MR. OLSEN: Thank you very much, Frank.
(Whereupon, at 6:00 o'clock p.m., the interview was
concluded.)
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