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Super-ego observations
¶
General comments
¶
Tinuvel:
It depends on the purpose of relations. If short and
casual, everything is fine. But if serious, initially it will be good
and charming, then it will be perplexing - why are things suddenly so
bad? Then again things will turn charming. And then gradually the number
of difficulties, quarrels, and tantrums will increase. The partner that
is sensing or logical or both in this case will be lost in guesses what
went wrong, and with try-try-try, do-do-do - because this is love
(presumably, by present emotions). Then will come fatigue and a feeling
of hopelessness, because after all these efforts these relations do not
significantly improve. They will search for some solution, some way out.
Multiple break-ups are possible. Sometimes it all comes to an exhausting
outcome such that parting becomes a mutual decision.
Perry:
I see Superego as a relationship based mainly on respect.
Respect at a distance. Superegos seeings each other in some casual
social setting or indirectly participating in some activity, that’s when
they seem attractive. This is when you see them as your distant ideal.
They seem reliable, worthwhile, solid, and sexually interesting.
Somewhat reminiscent of one’s dual. Superego becomes very uncomfortable
under any other circumstances. Especially: being home alone, one-on-one,
trying to solve your problems. Then, suddenly it turns out that they
don’t understand what you are doing, don’t feel your motivations and
your needs, or worse they are dismissive of them; your TIM’s “program”
is foreign to your superego. By their actions they indirectly sabotage
the way that you anchor yourself (their creative - is your PoLR). Here,
suspicions that this “sabotage” is intentional and resentments may
develop. You appreciate your Superego when they take care of your
Superego block tangentially i.e. not involving you for more than running
some errands. But when you try to engage each other in your EGO block
projects, instinctive understanding of each other’s needs shows to be
thoroughly lacking and disharmony becomes evident. Superego relations
are very heavy in a small closed off family settings. It’s like coming
back home and suddenly having a 100 pound backpack dropped on your
shoulders that you have to carry for the rest of the evening.
Psychological suppression and discomfort. If they are married, they need
several kids and many close relatives who can visit them, and
opportunities to move places or travel around every year. This opens up
their relationship to external influences and it becomes better because
they get a chance to observe each other at a distance again and
re-experience respect and admiration for each other.
IEI-SLI superego
¶
DmitryS2 (SLE):
I’m familiar with three cases of SLI-IEI
relations. The beginning is always good. But I should make a note that
in each of the three cases, the IEI did not have any dual experience
and didn’t know for sure “how it is when things are good”. The SLI
seemed business-like and very sensory i.e. like an appropriate match.
Then the usual superego discrepancies began, which bring everything to
nothing. And, this process is rather painful for both.
The IEI cannot keep SLI’s interest, or rather, cannot make SLI’s world
interesting and attractive, due to this the SLI “fades” - he cools
off, retreats, withdraws into himself and his own interests. The
couple as a couple often ends here. IEI’s feelings are not what IEE’s
feeling are. IEEs can play with this. Draw near, then move to a
distance. SLIs are activated by such games - they make them feel
alive. IEIs don’t play these games. For them this is unequivocal and
to the end. Thus, they cannot “revive” and motivate the SLI on their
Fi. Instead something to the opposite happens: the SLI “gets used” to
them and cools off. The result is that the IEI feels “alone in the
field” and in the relationship. What the SLI feels - he won’t even
say.
From the other end, the SLI does not give the IEI a sense of security.
It doesn’t matter what he attempts to do to fix this. The SLI won’t
turn into a SLE. He won’t extend that unambiguous and soft, enveloping
power, as the SLE does it (to cite one IEI). He won’t motivate the IEI
to “subordinate” to himself. The key word here is “motivate”, not
“force”.
IEI’s changeable emotions are unlikely to make a good impression on
the SLI. On the contrary, this might affect some of the hmm … some
of SLI’s male abilities. This isn’t always so, but often enough this
is a fact.
Also IEI’s reaction to the way the SLI explains or requests things is
often negative. The SLI will explain how something needs to be done.
The IEI perceives this as a boring instruction or as a criticism on
their “painful” function, that they are being criticized for doing
something in the wrong way. Even if the SLI did not mean anything by
this, such are the peculiarities of IEI’s perception. As a result, the
IEI feels herself foolish, incapable of doing things, and even
completely inept. This lowers IEI’s self-esteem, along with which her
mood falls, and finally her attitude towards a person who, as it seems
to her, is constantly putting her down. Yet again, there are
peculiarities of their perception.
A couple more words about IEEs - they “wind up” from SLI’s “let me
scratch your back” much more than IEIs. Then the IEEs does or says
something unexpected making SLI’s world much more interesting by this,
even during sex. They play around with attention. Apparently, this is
supposed to “glue” the SLI to the IEE. That is, this is the consonance
of suggestive and base functions. IEIs in this situation are awaiting
Se. That someone takes them and makes them be a part of themselves.
While for SLI this is a limiting, ignoring function. The SLI can exert
himself and play it up for a short while, but it won’t last long.
Something like this.
Insomnia82 (IEI)
: I can give several examples of my interaction
with an SLI:
1) New Year is coming. I’m waiting that the SLI will say something
like “Let’s meet it together. There are such-and-such options as to
what we can do.” - and I’ll gladly go along with any one of these
options, because the most important thing is that we’ll be together.
In actuality, he starts the conversation from a distance: “Have you
thought about New Year? Where do you plan to meet it?” I should have
said that I planned to meet it with him, but my first thought was:
“Aha! He’s asking me about my plans, which means that I’m not in his
plans.” So I answer him that I plan on seeing my family, which was
stupid on my part, but that was my immediate reaction to his question.
2) The SLI doesn’t call me for a long time. I’m thinking: “He is
likely busy, doesn’t miss me yet, or doesn’t want to see me.” Before
him I’ve met with an LSI and an LSE who will call 10 times a day on
their own and this didn’t annoy me, because it was a confirmation that
they are thinking of me, that they miss me and want to talk to me. An
IEE would have already found a dozen reasons to call the SLI herself
and lure him out, while I feel awkward calling first - what if I’m met
with some unpleasant response? Then it will completely ruin my mood.
3) The SLI often explains himself by means of allusions and metaphors,
by somewhat indirect means. While I am not completely certain what he
meant: did he understand me right? was this some hint on his end?
This, perhaps, was the most tedious part of our relations. It wore me
out to have to always second guess. It was interesting, unusual,
mysterious … but wow, did I grow tired of this. I couldn’t
understand very well what he was trying to convey. The situation is:
the SLI waits for some kind of actions on the part of IEI, while the
IEI is unsure and waits for confirmation of his or her guesses or some
action from the SLI. In our relations, I’ve often experienced a wish
to know whether this is so or not so. Sometimes I felt myself an
idiot, though at the same time I knew that this wasn’t the case.
Eventually SLI grows tired of this himself and simply disappears. When
the IEI shows up next to him, he shows his demonstrative offense. The
IEI wants him to finally understand, so that similar situations
wouldn’t repeat again. But for the SLI any kind of sorting out of
relations is intolerable. What he wants is child-like happiness,
intuitive lightness, and spontaneity.
Even after two years of these relations I don’t have any negative
memories remaining, only regrets that I couldn’t do anything. I have
positive memories for the most part.
Insomnia82 (IEI)
: I insanely like SLIs and get pulled towards them
like a magnet. Once I’ve met a SLI man and fell in love with him. In
those days I haven’t heard anything about socionics. Immediately I
noticed that in his presence I couldn’t be myself. I wanted to be more
delicate, more feminine, and deeply sincere, but to relax and be myself
- that I couldn’t do. And the persistent feeling of the complexity of
our relations. It seems like you understand the person, and that he
understands you, but intuitively you feel that this isn’t so. There is
no lightness, transparency in these relations. On the other hand, it is
interesting, refined, sensual. It seems like very soon, any day now,
there will be a breakthrough. But it never comes. Eventually you start
feeling worn out emotionally, morally, there remains less and less
strength to continue … but you still feel the same pull towards one
another. It seems like it’s impossible to put an end to it, neither is
there a possibility for the relationship to develop any further. After I
got introduced to socionics, and “equipped” with various tips and
theories, it seemed like: “Now I know what to do and how to act!” But
this doesn’t work again, because full understanding arrives only after
the situation, while immediate reactions are not the ones that are
needed in the moment. The SLI felt offended by my immediate reactions,
while I would feel offended at his words, or at the lack of words that I
was awaiting from him. Still, no other relationship for me has been as
tender and sincere.
nimr-r (IEI)
: SLIs, in my opinion, are simply born to seek that
which is concerting and emotionally agreeable with them. If they
encounter something irritating, they’ll either attempt to fix it or they
will distance. When they can’t distance, as introverts, they may simply
tune it out and not see it even if they are directly facing it (e.g.
don’t hear the noise outside, don’t see the exhausted battery and used
cups around their laptop). They intrinsically poorly tolerate
psychological and moral discomfort and try to thwart or evade it. For
example, an SLI can say something to the other person only for that
person to leave him alone, and then later forget all about what he has
said because he has already solved “his problem” - he has regained his
usual sense of emotional balance. The IEI eventually notices this and
this is something that is disappointing to the IEI. The SLI may attempt
to evade whenever the problem isn’t urgent, or when the person making a
request isn’t valued by him. To put it simply: if it’s not necessary,
then the SLI won’t do it - he/she is highly economical in actions.
Neither is the SLI particularly farsighted and may miss impending
troubles and dangers. The SLI deals with problems as they come
(
“carefree” type
), quickly mobilizing in
difficult situations, and usually knowing what needs to be done right
away. But if there is an opportunity for the SLI to avoid difficulties,
he will take it - he sees no point in prolonged showdowns. Does not
endure moral pressuring very well, is easily disoriented under emotional
“onslaught”, poorly tolerates tears, enthusiasm, indignation, especially
if such emotions quickly alternate.
LSI-EII
¶
Lytov (LII):
For the LSI life - is a constant war, a constant test
of endurance, while the EII unconsciously expects completely different
behavior, that is characteristic of his dual LSE (Stirlitz): to work a
lot, earn a lot, and at the same time to minimize unpleasant elements
and situations of the type “a test for fools”. Or, in short: the LSI
“chops wood - chips fly”, while the LSE prefers it when there are as few
“chips” as possible. My mother-in-law and her husband are of types LSI
and EII. They have lived together for a long time. As my wife says old
conflicts have long ago been exhausted. In many ways the situation is
mitigated by the fact that they are friends with another married couple,
ESE and SEI, whose presence at gatherings and holidays (and for my
father-in-law - at work) partly improves their situation.
Laboratory_of_sleep (LSI):
Relations between LSI and EII are not
relations at all. LSIs don’t understand EIIs because for us they are
closed into themselves. I don’t understand Dostoyevskies, and our
relations cause discomfort.
shinee (EII):
If you don’t understand EIIs, you are to blame for
this yourself! If you want to relate to a person, why not try to learn
more about him/her? Talk with them, get to know them closer, and from
there build relations. But with many LSIs if they don’t understand a
person - they immediately attach a label to them - “uncomfortable
person”. Do you think EIIs are worse than you? Our good relations need
to be earned. The EII perhaps feels that you don’t even consider him/her
as a person, because he/she doesn’t fit into your rules. For me LSIs are
hard to understand. For some reason they think that if they have said
something once, everyone needs to obey! Well, if it’s well-founded and
explained in the language of logic - that’s one thing … but they
simply say something in form of declaration, and then get offended that
no one is listening to them! - I honestly don’t get this behavior.
Karo (ILE):
shinee, here it’s not needed to find someone to blame,
especially that Dostoevskies can put labels to people like no one else.
The person posted about discomfort in relations because that’s how it
is. And it’s not needed to get into a pose “everyone offends me” because
that’s not so. It’s easy to sit back, snivel and moan how everything is
bad in hopes that some kind LSE is passing by and he or she will do
everything for you. This often won’t happen. In LSI’s world everything
is built with logical clarity. If he said so - it must be done. The LSI
is not going to baby or try to persuade anyone. For babysitters contact
the appropriate service. And if you need someone to tediously and at
length build relations with you, better find yourself another Dost and
complain to each other about everything in a row. Logical types have
other goals in life. At one point, I’ve observed relations LSI-EII: the
LSI was on the verge of some serious psycho-drama, the EII was
complaining all the time. Occasionally, this spilled out on people
around them. Good thing if it cames from EII, because an upset and
angered LSI is the most dangerous phenomenon on the planet.
shinee (EII):
About relationship LSI-EII, this is how my
interactions with LSIs have come together. I speak from experience. LSIs
initially seem to be pleasant, polite, and strong people, but at closer
interaction aggression on the side becomes evident. I don’t blame them
for this - they simply need a more emotional and compatible partner than
an EII. I for sure know that LSIs are not very compatible with me. My
father is of type LSI - we haven’t talked for a year, because he is a
kind of person who will pressure, deny the right to choose and have
other opinions, and may even say something crude and offensive. On other
people he makes a good impression - he owns a house and a car, lives
according to his own concepts and in order, maintains his social status,
and is a polite and pleasant conversationalist. But behind that he needs
to press and pressure others, often out of place and inappropriately,
and prove that he is the smartest, smarter than my mom and me, and that
you don’t represent anything. In his logical picture of the world, I was
already signed in as a rebellious daughter, but apart from his logical
view there are simple human emotions, such as love and respect. That is
something he seems to omit.
ILE-SEE
¶
Ivan (ILE):
My parents are of types ESI, mother, and SEE, father.
They never take me for an equal. They don’t understand my thinking and
consider it “silly and immature”. ILE, in his soul, is always a kid, but
my thinking was already fully formed by the age 12-13. At this age I had
determined my attitudes and opinions concerning almost everything (I
knew for certain I won’t smoke, drink, do drugs, etc.) Of course I
didn’t know a whole lot at this age and couldn’t take every circumstance
into account. My SEE father would tell me: “At your age I also thought I
already know everything.” SEEs at any age consider that they know
everything. Most importantly, he considers that without talking to him
I’m becoming more stupid. He tells me: “You have preferred your computer
and your friends to me. I could have taught you so much ….” and so it
begins, the stories about how cool he is, how smart he is, how athletic
he is, how he could have been more, if not for … (1001 excuses). The
reason I stopped talking to him is that I understood how he really is.
When I was a child, I considered him to be the best. I wanted to be like
him - he was my model. Later, I understood that except for
self-admiration there is no other purpose in his life. He doesn’t search
for truth - he only wants to appear smart in the eyes of others. Mimics
an ILI. Back in 2012 he annoyed everyone by his “prophetic” theories
about the end of the world, even though it was a no brainer that this is
nonsense, as it was in 1996, and all the other years. Now he has a quirk
for various pseudo-scientific programs and political ones. He works as a
guard, and watches these pseudo-scientific nonsense only so that others
would think him clever. And he is certain that all the
“overly-scientific” programs on REN-TV is the truth of 21st century.
There, they have declassified, uncovered, and given him all the secrets.
What kind of nonsenses is this? Only an idiot would believe it. My
current specialty is rocket building. I work as an intern at a factory
KrasMash - all the technical processes there are 60 years old, the whole
world has them already and many times better, yet they are classified so
much that they can give you up to 15 years for disclosure. And here, on
TV, they have suddenly declassified all the secrets for him! If that was
true, all of the film makers would have been in prison for life, and the
video would have been confiscated well before the airing. At a visit to
the therapist he literally took on the subtype of LII and pretended that
his thinking is 100% logical and intuitive, as he wanted to impress the
psychologist so much. One time he met some truly intelligent people and
they called him “an erudite fool”. He wasn’t at all upset at being
called a “fool”. He considers himself to be over-erudite, only a little
bit behind the actual academics and scientists, because while they work
in one, narrow field - he know about everything in the world! In
reality, there is a huge and hopeless abyss between him and them. In his
late 50s he arrived at such conclusions that I have already made back in
grade school, and would tell of them with such serious look as if he
discovered something completely new and unimaginable. I paid little
attention to these conversations, thus he considers that I’m either not
listening to him or not understanding him. I don’t even try to argue
with him, but leave it up to ILIs.
Observations by consentingadult
¶
From my observations, Super-Ego relations can more quickly end in
conflict than Cconflictor relations. I think this is probably because of
earlier life experiences, where one has quickly learned to identify a
Conflictor, which will make you walk on eggshells when interacting with
a new Conflictor. Super-Egos, on the other hand, don’t feel as much
stress from the onset, are more open to express themselves, ultimately
ending in open conflict. I have also noticed a difference between
interacting with male and female Super-Egos: as a male myself,
interacting with female SLEs often involves activation of a sexual
attraction component of the interaction. It almost seems like both
parties start to act from the Id-blocks (imitating each other’s duals)
in order to get into the other person’s panties, so to speak. But
ultimately one of them will start acting from their ego block and step
on the other person’s toes, and things can get pretty nasty from that
point on, partners hitting each other where it hurts most.
– Consentingadult 14:24, 11 March 2010 (GMT)
Related discussions
¶
Superego relations discussions on PerC
Superego relations discussions on 16t
Superego relations discussions on Typoc
Superego relations discussions on Reddit
Intertype Relations by Stratievskaya