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Benefit observations
¶
Related discussions
¶
Benefit relations discussions on PerC
Benefit relations discussions on 16t
Benefit relations discussions on Typoc
Benefit relations discussions on Reddit
General comments on benefit relations
¶
Vatrushka (SEI):
I was married for several years to a man of type
LSI, that is, I was the Benefactor in our marriage and he was the
Beneficiary. I’ll tell you about the situation from the perspective of
the Benefactor.
In the beginning (for the first 2-3 years) everything is great - the
Beneficiary is crazy about you, he anticipates your wishes, actively
adapts. In short, all is well. However, this “all is well” is highly
dependent on external conditions. If everyone is healthy, there is
money, no major calamities have happened, then this can go on
indefinitely. There is no excessive pressuring (especially on
Benefactor). But if some major difficulty does come up during your
married life - brace yourselves!!! And life is such that families who
haven’t run into some major difficulties are very few. And in a
difficult family situation, the Beneficiary begins to drown the
Benefactor. He tries to impose on Benefactor some solutions that only
worsen the situation. There is zero support. That is, the inevitable
moment comes when the Beneficiary becomes like a stone around the neck
of the Benefactor. All of this is compounded by the fact that over
time the Beneficiary learns to ignore what the Benefactor is telling
him or her - this is inevitable. In general, Benefit relations are
good, but only in situations where there are no major difficulties
that must handled and resolved TOGETHER.
shale14 (LII):
If you want to keep the relationship, you will have
to accept the fact that the Benefactor will never view you on the same
level. You will always be a little below, and the more you resist - the
worse you will look. There is only one way out - find yourself some
activities, hobbies, work on the side that you enjoy doing. There you
will be appreciated according to your true value and your resentments
will dissipate. Never argue in public with your Benefactor - believe me,
it’s not to your favor. Sort out your grievances in private. In public,
distance from your Benefactor, leave to make it clear that you’re
offended; your Benefactor will miss you, and sooner or later come to
you. The Benefactor suffers without the Beneficiary as well, because
with the Beneficiary the Benefactor creatively realizes him/herself for
100% - no person of sound mind would refuse or want to miss out on this!
Verenika (LII)
: In my experience, and by theory, benefit relations
are of course easier than supervision - there is no need here to “step
on the throat of your own song” so to say, to suppress yourself to not
harm the other. Benefit partners are able to partially complement one
another, so they feel some kind of similarity, they feel that they are
“berries from the same field”. In some sense this is great. But the main
thing that I learned from being in a relationship with my beneficiary is
that there is never of sense of full symbiosis. You like one another,
but individually, by yourselves, you’re also great. The synergy isn’t
there. There is no “working on the same team”, no full understanding and
acceptance of one another, and this creates a certain distance between
people in benefit relations. You will talk about same things but in
different languages. You can upset and offend the other when your sole
intention was to help. In the end, all of this gets very tiring, yet all
the time you feel: “But my partner is such a great/good person - isn’t
this enough to save our relationship?”
In general, in presence of compatible worldviews and interests, benefit
relationship has a chance. This isn’t conflict, nor supervision. But -
for me at least this was the case - the crux of the issue is that it’s
difficult to evaluate the state of affairs. For the entire 1.5 years
that I was in benefit relations I did not stop to doubt their
meaningfulness. And I will say this honestly: I wouldn’t want to be in
the place of my partner, to be the beneficiary, despite the fact that
the beneficiary receives valuable support on his suggestive function. In
short, each will have his or her own problems, and there won’t be any
end to them. Thus don’t expect strongly pronounced positives in these
relations.
The Benefactor will next to never derive anything educational for him or
herself. I can guarantee you this. He or she will attempt to fix and
change
you
instead - just a little bit, out of good intentions, of
course, and with a sincere wish to help you. This isn’t anything hurtful
of offensive from benefactor’s point of view. Most that the benefactor
is able to do to improve things is hold back from interfering and
imposing own opinions - but this isn’t always possible, and sometimes
there is simply no wish to do so. The most unpleasant and agonizing
thing in these relations is that from his or her own position your
benefactor will always be right. But this position has nothing to do
with the beneficiary. You live in different worlds that have different
priorities and different values, where different aspects and details are
of importance. Not a single one of your weaknesses will go unnoticed and
forgiven - and the amount of outcries and fuss that will be made on
their ground will always be more than you think is appropriate and fair.
Good thing if your benefactor will simply try to teach you instead of
demanding and pressuring you on your painful function. I was very much
emotionally starved in my benefit relationship with an SLI and at times
I bucked.
LII-IEI
¶
Makedonski (LII):
I am living in the same dorm room with an IEI
roommate for a third year now. Initially I thought that I’ve never had a
better friend than him - it was all good in our friendship. Later we
started having problems as it is depicted in benefit relations. Not sure
how to describe it … he started to annoy me with his jokes and
heckling, which previously I didn’t notice. Reviewing our friendship, I
can say that almost all of it fits with socionics benefit.
Verenika (LII):
My mother and father are of these types. They have
been married for a long while. Sometimes my mother gets bored a little,
and my father apologizes to her over some minor things - but they don’t
fight. They love each other and have raised two wonderful children. As I
understand the IEI is somewhat upset over what she sees as weakness of
character in the LII, his inability to assertively demand something for
himself. IEIs think that LIIs are too soft-bodied (in comparison with
their duals - of course!). Also the LII wants to sit at home (though
this isn’t true of all LIIs), while the IEI needs to be taken out, given
some new impressions once in a while. This is what I have seen with my
parents.
Fly lady (IEI):
I haven’t lived together with LIIs, but I’ve had
several friends and acquaintances of this type. What irritates the IEI
in the LII? The LII’s certainty in that he has learned The Ultimate
Truth. For an IEI everything in the world has multiple meanings, causes,
and possible interpretations. For the LII - it is all linear. I like Ti,
but to me it is clear that this is not a universal instrument for
learning about the world, while the LII is fully consumed by it. Another
“arguable” moment: the LII’s tendency to make universal/global
judgments. They evaluate everything that is happening from the point of
view of world progress and benefit for the humanity as a whole. For me
this is a strange way of thinking! IEI’s are very individualistic - they
try to experience, check, and verify everything through their own
experiences and reasoning. But don’t be offended LIIs! You have asked
what annoys the IEI in these relations and I have replied. I dearly love
my LII friends.
Sumire (ILI):
There are a couple of sources of irritation for the
LII in these relation. Taken from observations of my best friends - an
LII-IEI couple.
1) The IEI skillfully employs his creative function. He does this
quite innocently - to inspire admiration, sympathy, etc. A grateful
audience is, of course, needed for such an occasion. But the LII takes
these emotional demonstrations at face value: he analyzes the literal
text of what was said, tries to give specific advice to allay IEI’s
emotional worries.* Suddenly the LII sees that something illogical is
happening here - this person doesn’t want to leave his depressed
state; he is enjoying what he is feeling. The LII starts to interfere
in this process, and at the same time stops believing in these
feelings, and later - the person himself. If the LII happens to “fall”
under the charm of this manipulation, he feels himself mislead,
cheated, and disappointed. So what should the LII do with IEI’s
emotional displays? He should simply treat them as they were intended:
as works of art. In theater, we enjoy the play that we’re watching.
I’m not saying that the IEI’s emotions are insincere, it’s just that
with their emotions they create self-expression in such moments. I
have kept friends with an IEI for many years just because I listen to
him and enjoy the process of him expressing his joys and sorrows, and
later tell him of my enjoyment. And I obtain a wonderful result: he
tells me how life is bleak, and does so with such anguish, in such
words as if he’s painting it instead of speaking. Seemingly I should
sympathize with him, but instead I give him compliments: “That was
wonderful how you described that! You’re so talented!” And where is
his depression now? He squints like a cat being petted, hinting that
he can do even better.**
2) When an IEI man tries to take on all the household duties and
problems onto his own shoulders, starting from searching for a job and
down to fixing the plumbing, it looks ridiculous. The LII in the
beginning honestly takes up his or her share of responsibilities, but
later, analyzing the the situation, comes to the conclusion that this
is unfair. The LII also doesn’t respect people who are not autonomous
and need an audience. After the initial idealization phase is over,
such an epiphany regarding his IEI partner will be annoying for the
LII.***
[
Effects of `3D <Dimensionality_of_functions>`__ Fe conscious block
Fe of IEI onto `1D <Dimensionality_of_functions>`__ unconscious block
if LII, where the LII can’t quite discern what value to attribute to
IEI’s emotions. Both types are also emotivists, whereas in dual
couples one type is usually emotivist and one is constructivist.
]
[
This may be true of IEI in the enneagram image triad (2,3,4) who
indeed enjoy creating certain impressions and images of themselves,
but it’s much less true of IEIs of other enneagram types.
]
[
Democratic-aristocratic differences are evident here.
]
Ierofant (LII):
I’ve had many friendships and romances with IEIs.
It’s very easy for an LII and an IEI to get together. Initially both
feel attraction towards one another. It’s easy for me to become
acquainted with and charm Esenins. Before I knew about socionics, I used
to wonder why the girls that I attract are so alike internally and
didn’t understand why this is so :-)
For a while, everything is great. Mutual understanding, sharing of
innermost thoughts, and so on. Then problems begin. All of this was
taken from my personal experience, thus it may not be universal:
Problem number one: The IEI is too insular. I dream of a person who is
open, whose feelings would be apparent, that everything would be simple
and clear, no omissions, lapses, or vague hints (yes, this is an
unconscious request for my dual ESE). While the IEI is turned inwardly.
It’s not easy for her to open up and tell about herself. My attempts to
draw something out of her she feels as pressuring, and then withdraws
even further. If I close off myself, she doesn’t notice it and is
perfectly capable of living in parallel with me without any particular
emotional involvement.
Problem number two: Conflict of rationality with irrationality. This has
been described already on the example of LII-SEI. Similarly I start to
feel irritated with IEI’s irrationality which shows itself in small
things as well as in large ones (how we took up home remodeling with an
IEI is an entire story!). Discussing problems is something impossible!
She cannot grasp my logic and at the same time cannot explain why she
thinks this way or that way, then she starts getting angry that I don’t
understand her and withdraws into herself. On the other hand, when I
explain something to her logically, she feels cheated, like a child
being tricked by a magician. Plus the constant mood fluctuations with
departures into herself, and the agonizing distress over every little
thing. And the famous IEI monologues - once every while, she starts to
Speak. At length, tediously, jumping from one thought to another in a
completely unstructured manner, repeating herself and getting lost and
tangled in her own thoughts, not making any distinction between what is
important and what isn’t - this she can be unloading onto you for hours.
This verbal chaos is aggravating!
Problem number three: IEI’s laziness. The IEI is visionary and inspired
in her laziness. She is too lazy to get up and do something - it’s much
easier for her to [I]imagine[/I] how she will get up and d[I]ream[/I]
about doing something, and oh how great it will be - but remain at rest.
She flows along with the current, and then complains that the current
didn’t carry her where she wanted. But to swim actively in another
direction is not for her. As a result of this, an Image appears in IEI’s
mind. This image is of herself in her own dreams. With time, the IEI
starts to believe that these are not only dreams, that she really is how
she has painted herself within her Image. Next - personality split: “I,
in reality” and “I, in the Image”. When you see that inside the person
whom you love there live two people - one of whom loves you, and another
despises you because you are interfering - this is unsettling.
Besides that, the IEI never prods the LII on the topic of how to spend
free time, unlike the ESE - she offers the LII to think of something
himself. The LII feels lost, doesn’t know what to suggest - as a result,
joint free time is in danger of remaining dull and insipid.
Problem number four: managing the household together. The IEI is
amazingly not into housekeeping. Considering that the LII is not into it
either, their living space turns into bedlam. Periodically, the LII
makes a scary face and theytake up cleaning and ordering things
together. And this lasts a few days. From the point of view of managing
a household, it is much easier for the LII to live alone - he likes
cleanliness and order and is able to keep it up (according to his own
preferences). For a family LII + IEI - their home turns into chaos.
Good, tasty food - will be found in restaurants, since the IEI strongly
dislikes cooking (she cooks occasionally, but not regularly and without
much enthusiasm). For arranging and decorating the living space, the IEI
will gladly come up with many different ideas and setups, but when it
comes to actual implementation - choosing the wallpaper, drafting the
furniture layout scheme, installing the wiring for the lights, and so on
- her enthusiasm wanes,* she loses interest, this “toy” is no longer
interesting to her. As a result, at home there is a bunch of projects
that have been started but never finished, because the LII is fine
living as it is - he doesn’t see the wiring that is hanging from the
ceiling, while the IEI is already bored with the idea about the lights.
There is a lot more I can tell about. As one LII friend of mine has
said, who also went through an IEI phase: “after the IEI, being with the
ESE is sheer paradise!” But there is a lot of good, too, in these
relations. Mutual understanding, feeling for one another, journeys into
each other’s inner worlds, refined understanding of music, literature,
art, and the simple Beauty of this world. With IEIs one can easily
communicate non-verbally. But living together is very challenging.
[The IEI quickly loses interest in absence of Se support and doesn’t
feel motivated by LII’s Si. While the IEI is in need of strong
forward momentum, the LII, as a “Judicious” type, is still in stage
of planning and compiling drafts for how to position their furniture
- Decisive/Judicious quadra differences are evident here.]
TheRoSS (IEI):
This above response is great! It’s nice sometimes to
recognize yourself! Each point is spot on. But still, let’s make a few
additions to this.
Problem number one: Yes, the LII can be somewhat bothersome with his
questions and inquiries. Do I really need to be held accountable for my
every step? Not only do I not remember every little thing I have thought
and done, but it’s very straining to try to recall it. Plus, once I have
made some plans, if I share them with anyone, there is 99% chance that I
won’t follow through with them. For example, if I make a present to some
girl with whom I’m not in a relationship with but only dating, I won’t
see her again. Although may be in half a year I’ll try to connect again,
to be friends. Therefore, LIIs, please don’t try to penetrate into IEI’s
inner world - for the IEI this feels intrusive.
Problem number two: LIIs at times flounder themselves with the same
lengthy speeches, about how one should live and how one shouldn’t. And
they are so logical, so correct and consistent! that it gets rather
tedious. Especially when they start talking about not having enough
money. IEI’s aren’t that concerned about money! When it’s there - it’s
good. But we won’t work like mules just to earn a little more. And when
I interrupt them they feel offended. Please don’t! Just remember that
we’re different.
Problem number three: The personality split occurs in the IEI out of
sense of their own inadequacy. The more you will pressure an IEI and
demand him or her to be rational - the further he or she will withdraw
and “split-up”. Here I can give you some useful advice: don’t wait for
IEI’s initiative in domestic affairs. It won’t happen. And even if it
will, you won’t be happy afterwards. Show a bit of initiative yourselves
and call her for help. But don’t do chores in parallel, instead do them
together. For example, if you’re cooking, then ask your IEI partner to
peel and cut the vegetables. If you take the initiative into your hands,
the IEI will gladly help you out. When I can’t stare at the mess at home
any longer, I readily take care of it, while my LII partner takes care
of the remaining details. Then for several months calmness and
cleanliness prevails. But don’t start up anything major, 2-4 hours of
“home projects” is optimal. There is a lot that can be done together in
this time. If you see the IEI is slacking a little, don’t bother him or
her - the IEI will soon feel ashamed of it him/herself.
Problem number four: I’ll just add that IEIs, besides their seeming
frugality, are keen aesthetes. Therefore, any mess or ugliness in their
homes drives them further into themselves. In total chaos, you’ll never
reach them. Again, start taking care of it yourself and then call the
IEI to help you. The IEI will come, and feel guilty if she/he doesn’t.
Besides, doesn’t the mess feel oppressive to you yourself? When I was
living together with an LII girl and the chaos has started, I told
myself that I am going to look at this as if I’m living alone. I’ve
simply started cleaning up on my own, and seeing this she joined in to
help me. If you look to yourself to take initiative, you will get help
from others.
If my words have offended someone, a big request to not judge me
harshly. I was just trying to convey the general feelings and view
points of an IEI in this situation. Perhaps this will help you reach an
understanding in your mutual life together.
Pavel Decart (LII):
I agree with Fly Lady, the problems are exactly
that. Concerning Ierophant’s post, I agree only with half of it, about
the psychology, but don’t fully agree with parts on housekeeping. The
IEIs can diligently work on “setting up their nests”, but they do so in
pulses and waves. According to statistics of my friends and relatives,
the LII-IEI is a very common pairing among couples. My mother herself is
of type IEI. We love each other and have many common theoretical and
spiritual interests (including socionics). I’ve also had several
romances with IEI girls. In general, “benefit” is a good type of
relations.
Eiren (IEI):
Concerning IEI’s outbreaks of emotions and hysteria,
this was one of the problems in my relationship with an LII. Initially,
he thought that I was a calm and emotionally stable person, and that
these outbreaks are something very worrisome and unusual, that I am
extremely distraught. What needs to be understood here is that during an
emotional episode the IEI is indeed VERY upset, that for him or her it
is VERY important. But later he recovers and feels that perhaps he’s
overdone it, that it wasn’t worth it, etc. Thus, at the beginning my LII
boyfriend tried to console me and of course interpreted all of this as
something more serious and worrying than it really was. Meanwhile I
started feeling like I am cheating him somehow, tricking him, trying to
get something from him by these tears - even though I wasn’t thinking
anything like that, which made me feel ashamed. I think he, too, has
recognized this - now he demonstratively tries to remain stoic, not give
it any attention, wait it out until he can talk with me. Naturally, this
kind of reaction also doesn’t make the IEI happy (I’m not going to
explain why, as I think it is apparent). I try to be calm even when he
loses it. In such moments he tells me all that he thinks, then quickly
calms down and apologizes if he got carried away. Sometimes our mutual
introversion gets in the way. We nudge each other sort of like “may be
you’ll tell me something interesting?” “I see you didn’t miss me too
much - don’t you want to talk?” At times, it gets unbearable as each of
us sits in a separate corner and stares into his or her computer. But
when both of us are in the mood to talk, there are lot of positives and
a deep sense of fulfillment. Sometimes I make myself talk about things
that I would normally not talk about, simply talk about what’s happening
around me, or remember something that has recently happened - my LII
boyfriend lightens up, starts telling of something himself and making
jokes, then I don’t need to force myself to mimic an extrovert because
our conversation flows by itself. Once in a while he will provoke these
conversations himself.
Berrysister (IEI):
Eiren your post was spot on, about the
communication of IEI and LII, and about IEI’s emotions … When I am
upset I usually try to show it by my look: I become withdrawn, aloof,
depressed and scattered, although what I really want to do is cry and
tell him of everything “to his face” i.e. throw a “small tantrum”, but I
restrain myself (I’m afraid I’ll overdo it). I just can’t bring myself
up to say anything - he should be able to guess it himself! My LII bf
always notices these changes and attempts to get a “logical” answer from
me. At this point, I assume a mysterious look and say that I cannot tell
him. What follows next is that his mood becomes same as mine, he may
even act like he was offended by me. Usually after such episodes
everything settles by itself, but a sense of dissatisfaction lingers.
Solaris (LII):
ESEs emote in such a way that the LII doesn’t feel
himself at fault. If they give out negative emotions, it happens in
short bursts, because the ESE soon switches his or her attention to
something else. When someone becomes aloof and closed off to demonstrate
how he/she is upset, this is truly unpleasant. If I have any energy and
positive in me at such times, I’ll try to prod the person, to make them
brighten up. But if not, I begin feeling uneasy myself, thinking about
the possible causes. A sense of discomfort arises: something isn’t right
within my close circle of people. If someone is demonstratively upset,
then this person is likely upset at you, while you were only acting from
your best intentions. And when you ask them, they make a mystery out of
it. At this point of course I start growing angry and frustrated myself,
and in an outburst may end up stepping on the same rake that nobody has
told me about.
Berrysister (IEE):
ESEs also have strong, very natural and very
important for them emotions, which could be negative ones if something
bad has happened. But the ESE states very clearly that he is upset over
a dent in his car. What I mean is that in ESE’s verbal flow the problem
is directly mentioned and specified. In comparison, IEIs are much more
insular and secretive. I think the LIIs don’t always understand what has
upset them. When they finally do understand, they become suspicious of
the reasons that made the IEI upset or don’t take those reasons too
seriously.*
[Difference between Si concretization and Ni generalization is
evident here. The LII has demonstrative Ni and therefore struggles to
take Ni information seriously.]
Eiren (IEI):
I’ve been in a relation with an LII for almost 1.5
years. This relationship isn’t simple. I fluctuate between feeling bouts
of optimism, feeling that I am strong and that I can do whatever is
needed, to badly wanting to have someone watch over me. Sometimes I
can’t tell my LII directly what I need without feeling slightly offended
or disappointed (“you couldn’t guess yourself?”) Also - I don’t like his
one dimensional view on some things. When I delicately explain to him
that of course, you are right, but if you look at this from the point of
view of this person, whom you’re judging and criticizing, then perhaps
he is thinking that … - here I get interrupted as he starts repeating
and explaining his point of view again. Myself - I don’t always carry
out small promises, and something have nervous break down over small
things, of which I feel ashamed later. But there is a wish to meet each
other halfway and to compromise, and this is wonderful.
Larna (LII):
Of course with duals it’s easier to talk and to be
around them. I very much love all my ESE friends, at least those of them
who are good people. But concerning sensing, I often feel inadequate
next to them. Have you ever worked next to an ESE or some other sensing
types? I get a feeling that I should simply step aside and observe how
wonderfully well they do all the work themselves, without my feeble
attempts to help them. And they won’t ask you about your TIM. Even if
you’re a “good girl” and get good evaluations otherwise, they will see
that you’re “sitting it out in the shade”. The “cult of a good
housekeeper” is promoted mostly by people of sensing types, and they
will judge you by such criteria. Next to IEIs I don’t feel this way. Of
course I can dream near someone of a sensing type, but it’s not the
same. Of course, I don’t need to ask ESEs to do anything - I haven’t
even finished talking while the ESE has already gone out and settled
everything. And this is without any grimaces of onerous “victim-ness” on
his face. But around duals the intuitive part of your personality never
becomes realized. Of course you’re cared for and provided for, but there
is no deep understanding, no discussions of any deep philosophical or
spiritual questions - all you get in return is a compliment and an apple
pie. Roughly four years ago I left my ESE for an understanding IEI, whom
I completely trust as I would trust myself. When we are together neither
we nor any of our friends think that this was a mistake.
Cheshire (SLI):
I have the opportunity to observe this kind of
relationship firsthand. Everything is “by the textbook”. The IEI still
makes an unconscious request for Se and periodically provokes the LII
(to exaggerate a bit: “Show yourself a man! not a sponge.”) Though she
knows in her mind that this isn’t right, but still slips from time to
time. She feels worn out by the need to constantly keep track of and
attend to LII’s sensory state of affairs. She only has enough strengths
to keep track of their household, so what he receives often is verbal
instruction from her role function about “how things should be”. To
constantly charge him with positive emotions for her, as an introvert,
is also not feasible. She told me once: “He needs a lively girl with
apple pies, and that’s not me.” Can you see in this a simplified image
of an ESE? And she doesn’t even know about socionics.
roza red (LII):
LIIs do tell IEIs what to do, but they don’t take
these orders seriously. The IEI is waiting for clear directions and a
volitional impulse. LII’s instructions are usually phrased as: “Please
do it if you find the time …” or “Perhaps you could do it like this?”
The help and advice provided to his IEI partner by the LII consists of
him saying: “You can do it like this, or like this”. The LII is oriented
at conservation of one’s strengths and self-defense rather than at
demanding something actively or taking something over from someone. But
instructions and advice given in this manner to the IEI will be taken
into account and carried out by the IEI only selectively.
ILI-EII
¶
Dosia-2 (EII)
: I’ll try to recall a few positives and negatives of
my benefit relations with an ILI. The positives: surges of information,
which with a correctly asked question would be poured onto my head;
absolute indifference/nonchalance, which by me, a young and
inexperienced EII, was perceived as total control of the situation;
ability to do whatever he pleased and anything that wandered into his
head (and many things did …); and calm pessimism (“yes, we’re all
going to die, nothing wrong with this”). The negatives: appalling
treatment of his own body, and consequently of mine, too; sex (imho two
intuitive introverts can make a good match anywhere but the bedroom);
lack of protection (“I’ll go stand over there while you deal with
this.”); frequent outbursts. We parted due to an invented (by me)
reason, after a stormy hysterical episode, a show, in all honesty, that
I have put on, while he sat aside and savored it. After our romantic
relations have ended, our friendship continued for several more years
(we quite often paid him visits with my new LSE companion).
Vesna05 (SEE)
: What Dosia is saying about the flurry of emotions -
that feels like a flurry for her TIM. In reality, within these
relations, the EII will constantly have to mimic an extroverted ethical
type for the ILI. The ILI, after all, is oriented at a loud, rowdy SEE.
Concerning sex - it’s all understandable, no need to comment further.
About protection - spot on! The ILI himself won’t protect you. He will
either try to prevent the situation where this would be needed and
attempt to pull you aside, but if the situation has occurred then he’ll
only feel bad … Concerning him sitting and savoring Dosia’s hysterics,
he wasn’t savoring it but emotionally processing and experiencing it.
Though a hysterical show put on by an EII may look as a show-spectacle
put on by an SEE, so perhaps her ILI boyfriend even enjoyed this.
A rhetorical question that gets asked, but not answered: why do they
need such relations at all? Because love is such that you may fall in it
even with an ILI. Love doesn’t choose whom to love. Socionics hasn’t
annulled the existence of pheromones, the call of the flesh and the
attraction of the two souls. All misunderstandings show up only later,
after close contact and interaction. Initially, the not very strong ILI
will fall in love with an EII because on her background he will feel
himself stronger. And she will without hesitation believe in his words.
It will seem to her at first that he can reach out and take the moon
from sky for her.* While a young SEE won’t believe him and demand proof
- go out and get it now since your promised!
[note: It is typical of these relations for the EII to listen to and
unquestioningly accept ILI’s arguments and conclusions, because ILI’s
creative Te is EII’s suggestive function (i.e. EIIs are very
suggestible by Te). EII’s own logical functions have
Dosia-2 (EII)
: I completely agree with Vesna. There is a huge
difference. What for me is a horrible scandal, my SEE sister calls: “we
have discussed it”. With her comments this situation became much clearer
to me.
Pauline_Overdrive (IEI)
: About protection, this is all true. In one
unpleasant for me situation my ILI friend has decided not to say
anything, and then later, one-on-one, he decided to speak out and tell
me that I was the one to blame for it. The second ILI tried to “act like
a man” and defend “his girl”, but while he initially stepped forward, he
didn’t follow through with the situation and drive it to finish.
InSolo (ILI)
: How does the ILI make a “social request” to the EII?
This is how. The ILI grows tired of his environment and his social
circle. He becomes entangled in incomprehensible to him relations,
strained on his painful function to the brink, completely exasperated -
all around him what is happening is sheer outrage and ugliness. The ILI
suffers this in silent anguish. By happenstance, an EII appears near
him, as, you see, the EII was just passing by. As a base function
ethical type, upon observing this dire situation the EII rushes in to
bring some sense and order to ILI’s environment, concurrently
readjusting ILI’s introverted ethics while sympathizing with him and
consoling him on the issues of his vulnerable function. The ILI is very
appreciative - oh miracle! an angelic figure has descended and answered
his prayers! He casts himself into the embraces of his savior and pours
out all his soreness: here I wasn’t understood, there I was wronged, and
in general the place is full of scoundrels and bastards. The EII listens
to this and offers his commentary - he starts from afar, by telling the
ILI of interesting things that are seemingly unrelated. When the ILI has
calmed down, the EII, carefully monitoring his reactions, begins to pull
the ILI into the waves of entertaining nothingness, and soon enough ILI
himself doesn’t notice how they are already discussing his painful
issues. All the ILI needed was 2-3 “orienting” points and a “stamp of
quality” for resolving some specific situations, which he is able to
obtain from his conversations with an EII. The EII is also happy with
how things are going - the “right” in EII’s view order (hierarchy) was
established - the heroes were praised and distinguished by a laurel.
Here they should part - the mission has been completed, and their
relationship at this point loses its grain of reason. But the EII, out
of habit, continues to adjust ILI’s introverted ethics to the rhythms of
the universe, which the ILI no longer needs - everything is dandy now
and changing anything is unnecessary. However, on his negative intuition
of possibilities the EII isn’t appeased: how can everything be fine now?
what if the ILI falls into catatonia again? this has to be prevented!
And the ILI certainly will fall again, meanwhile the EII feels like he’s
not able to lay down enough “soft pillows” to buttress his fall. As a
result, the EII overloads the ILI’s Fi activating function. Now the ILI
will start defending himself, and at the same time he takes a closer
look as this “savior angel”. While the EII was sorting out ILI’s
“ethical space”, everything was fine; but once the EII attempts to get
even closer and manage the ILI and his affairs from the point of view of
ethics and weak logical functions, this is when the EII starts to seem
unsound and inadequate to the ILI. This is not only because the EII
appears to contort and belie facts and cut corners on logic, but also
because EII’s highly developed aristocratic ethics will seem grotesque
to the ILI. The “angel” has fallen, his or her light has grown dimmer,
and the ILI distances from the EII shaking his head in bewilderment. The
EII is also perplexed - the preparatory phase was almost over, and he
was just getting ready to seriously and thoroughly take up the “ILI
case”, while the ILI has left and distanced himself from EII’s
experimental ethical “potions”. And so until the next crisis. The EII
won’t even get any thanks for all his work, because to the ILI it seems
like he was requesting a little bit of help and instead he’s gotten fed
with some heavy epic saga.
In their discussions, while the EII is working only from his ethics and
intuition, everything is fine. However, as soon as the EII will try to
put his worldviews into some logical framework, this is where the
problems begin. There will be many mistakes that for the ILI will be too
obvious, while the EII will struggle with explaining the apparent to him
ethical nuances to the logical ILI.
InSolo (ILI)
: How does this interaction differ from ILI’s activity
relations with ESIs? ESIs are activating by their seeming
ineffectiveness coupled with a dolorous desire to defeat and overcome
their problems or foes. Witnessing this, the ILI cannot hold back from
engaging himself and doing something. He helps the ESI, finds him work
or a position, and simultaneously reviews some key points of his own
life situation and career. It’s not that the ILI likes such scenes of
helplessness, but they provoke him to concrete activities: how great it
would be to find a job for this person, and now the ILI is already
stirred up and actively scurrying in search of something. The only
difference is that an ESI will desperately question the universe with
howls of anguish, while the EII bites the harness and plows through any
made available to him field.
IEI-ESI
¶
George (LIE)
: I’ve met this pair before. I gathered from their phone
conversation that the IEI is far from being able to give clear
instructions. Many times I wanted to take over the phone myself and tell
everything as it needs to be told. There is no logic in this pair (I
mean strong logic). Their interactions move along without any visible
results. It’s something like an ethical whirlpool that just keeps
spinning round and round.** Eventually the ESI feels tired and annoyed
by this because she/he isn’t getting any results on the suggestive
function. This is all from my observations. Otherwise they’re doing
alright.
[
Both IEI and ESI may feel like they are running in circles
without getting much done also because both are Tactical types that
have trouble aligning their actions with some long-term strategy or
goal to organize their lives around, unlike their duals SLE and LIE,
both Strategic types.
]
Baileys (ESI)
: I had a relationship with an IEI guy but didn’t marry
him. I felt like nothing was right, that in a year I’ll be a widow with
a criminal record. There are two female IEI in my circle: my sister and
my friend. It’s not easy. From both sides. Periodically we need a
time-out from each other. I hurt them more often, than they hurt me.
Miracle Worker (IEI)
: I have a friend of type Dreiser. We constantly
argue due to his throat-cut rationalism and practicality. Only a few
hours ago we were arguing whether there is any use in philosophy as a
science. Likewise, he reduces art and religion down to what material
benefit these bring. He has a thirst for justice e.g. he has quarreled
with the college dean over undeserved, in his view, scores that ruined
his red diploma. He was happy that the truth has triumphed no matter at
what cost. My ESI friend’s crazy workaholism and meticulous work ethic
are unnerving. And yes, he is very capable of grounding anything by
boiling it down to its concrete benefits and rationality.
Super-Kaktus (IEI):
I’ve used to chat with an ESI girl. It was a
somewhat close friendship between us. Communication was very smooth, and
over time we have became close over a number of similar interests and
outlooks on life. In our conversations, my ESI friend would alternate
between talking of her own alleged imperfections and the imperfections
of the world, in which she was quick to become disappointed. Eventually
she became disillusioned with me, and my “complaining and problems,
which I simply don’t want to solve once and for all” - in her words.
ESIs complain, too, only they do it aggressively, rapidly switching
between different subjects, something along the lines “I’m so stupid.
The world is so full of stupid people in general. Now let’s discuss how
we could fix/destroy/reform it”. She tried to keep our friendship to the
very end, but then she abruptly broke it off and distanced from me so
suddenly that I only saw her heels flashing, while I had cognitive
dissonance and eyes the size of saucer plates from surprise.
Drakosha (IEI)
: I liked an ESI guy for a while. I tried to attract
his attention, flirt or something like it. The main feeling I got from
our interaction is reminiscent of the movie “The Taming of the Shrew”.
Constant attempts to discipline from ESI’s end. This was expressed as
jabs and digs directed at me, at some of my personal qualities. Which to
me meant: “You should change yourself!” And I could try changing, but I
also saw that he doesn’t really need this. The ESI guy simply made these
prickly comments that he threw my way that weren’t telling me of
anything. And I don’t get why is this needed? To what purpose? There is
nothing he is trying to achieve, neither is he trying to offend me. Then
why are all these jabs and prodding comments needed? In the end, while I
was interacting with this ESI guy, I stopped understanding what is
needed and expected of me and started feeling disoriented and somewhat
anxious. I felt like something is being expected of me from his end, but
I was lost as to what that might be. When I try to build a relationship
with someone, it is preferable that I see at least a transparent contour
of what my partner wants. I can guess, but it’s better and more assuring
for me when I ask a direct question to receive a direct response.
Frost Mirriam (IEI)
: Once I have shown my ESI friend some of my
creative writing - poetry written during the period of deep depression.
She read it and said to me: “ew, this is so pretentious!” Since that
time I don’t show her my poetry anymore, and none of my other works.
Dashu (IEI)
: Why does everything have to be described in such
terrible colors? Yes, ESIs like to control everything and everyone, and
drive them under the framework of their stereotypes and notions. It is
impossible to argue with them because for them there is only one correct
view - their own. At the same time, it’s awesome when you are pulled out
of another scruff, while a swift punch to the face is delivered to
anyone who has dared to encroach on ESI’s “Ni treasure” (figuratively
speaking). The suggestive function of IEI (Se) is always satisfied.
Although problems arise, even up to scandals, when ESI tries to impose
her own views. Then there’s a need to keenly maneuver between subduing
one’s own and another’s anger, while still asserting one’s own opinion.
In general, living together with ESI for the IEI is similar to living on
a gunpowder keg that periodically releases a cloud of smoke - all in all
it’s not that bad.
Vitacha (IEI)
: ESIs support, that they provide from their 1st
function Fi, is presented in such a way that it doesn’t look like
support to the IEI, but as, for example, a lecture on the evils of
smoking. A thorough lecture, where the issue is meticulously sorted out.
However, for IEIs Fi is a vital function - for them information of this
kind is like a muddy current of dubious assumptions that seem to be not
hinged or based on anything. Fi for ESIs is base or “background”
function, so they typically don’t notice how much everything that they
say gets colored by it. So in a conversation between IEI and ESI, what
the IEI hears from the ESI is this stream of seemingly baseless
information that doesn’t fit with how the IEI understands things to be
and deals with people and relationships, including IEI’s relationship
with the ESI. More so, ESIs aren’t EIIs - the later you can at least
ignore or send somewhere far away, while the ESI will nitpick and watch
carefully that you don’t slip away from her control. This sense of
constant -Fi pressuring and control is very aggravating in itself to the
IEI.
Nataly (IEI)
: I’ve been through these relations, married to an ESI
man for 10 years. These relations were difficult for me for several
reasons:
1) Total control over my actions and some minor things. For example,
coming back from work 20 minutes late was met with stern “onslaught”
to the point that it was impossible for me to drop by a cafe with a
friend after work.
2) All my friends were considered to be almost like enemies - he
needed all of my efforts, so what right did I have to get distracted
away from him by my friends? As a result I started losing my
friendships.
3) Harsh pressuring on the topics of: “Why so proud amidst your
poverty” or “Why are you learning a foreign language? Instead of
occupying with this nonsense you should come up with something that
could actually earn some money.”
4) In respect to his friends: “You are not a person of our circle,
thus don’t try to delve into matters that don’t concern you.” And in
general: “I don’t trust you.”
5) His policy regarding our relationship: “How about you do your
thing, and I’ll do mine. “Us” is only for bed.”
6) If I had some problems and referred to him for help and moral
support, this would be his response: “First of all understand that
these are your problems, so don’t you dare to shout and cry in front
of me, because I may not have patience with your hysterics and will
“forcefully” put an end to them. When you have calmed down, I will
tell you how you should behave to not get yourself into such stupid
situations in the future.”
Needless to say, after 10 years of such treatment my self-esteem has
dropped to nothing. If you are ready to spend your life discussing
your emotions without any emotion, if you consider that the closeness
and intimacy of your relationships with your husband should be
strictly regulated and “dosed”, if you consider that everything you do
should earn money or at least bring some material result, then this is
the relationship for you.
What is also interesting is that as many new methods and technologies
as the IEI offers to the ESI, the ESI doesn’t appreciate and doesn’t
accept advice coming from such a hapless in ESI’s eyes person. The ESI
wants you to implement and work through all these technologies and
methods yourself rather than simply give advice.
S-C
: I have heard of, and observed myself, the following scenario:
The benefactor finds a beneficiary. For example, an ESI in search of a
life partner and without experience of dual relations finds an IEI, who
is nice, feminine, emotionally stable, soulful and sincere, fitting of
the image of what the ESI appreciates in people. The IEI reacts to the
ESI positively - the ESI with his/her creative volitional sensing and
rationality fits the IEI’s ideal of what “a real man/woman” should be
like. The IEI seems to ESI rather helpless, but if the ESI is
intellectually inclined, they get drawn into various interesting
conversations. Thus a relationship develops between them. Over time,
ESI’s ignoring or limiting Fe wears out IEI’s strong creative Fe
function. Their interaction proceeds more harmoniously on
sensing-intuition related topics, rather than topics pertaining to
logic-ethics. Trying to sort out logic-ethics will make it clear to both
of them that these relations are far from their ideal and prompt them to
distance.
Cassiopea (IEI)
: The relationship that I have with my ESI husband is
terrible. It will be good for a couple of days, then he begins digging
in and nitpicking me. He criticizes and tries to re-educate me. He is
constantly dissatisfied by something, and teaches, teaches, teaches …
And this feeling that I’m so horrible while he’s so good, that I won’t
make it without him and will only be able to find some alcoholic (he
doesn’t drink or smoke) - this feeling he has beaten into me so deeply
that it became my neurotic complex. I look like a cornered animal who
only expects another educational “blow” from him. But I don’t want to
quarrel, I want to believe that everything will be okay, that things
will get better, that we will find a compromise, and I concede … and
in the end I feel like I am losing myself. I send him away and distance,
but I’ll still feel guilty, and after a couple of days I will forget
everything and call him again … and then everything starts again. Yes,
he really is a very good person - kind, caring, loves children, loyal
… but I’m just not his ideal. And in my mind I know that I will never
be, but in my heart I still want to believe that things will get better
…
Doverchivaya (IEI)
: With ESIs good relations develop only when we
see each other infrequently. Seeing and speaking to each other often,
with their endless dissatisfaction and incontestable demands, is very
difficult and requires a lot of patience. All the time you feel like you
owe something, like you’re obliged - and this is awful, brrr! Cassiopea,
to deal with your ESI husband’s criticisms try to abstract away and not
take it personally. Let him nag and criticize the air around himself,
meanwhile you can think of something else. Sooner or later he’ll get
tired of it. Maybe he is a wonderful person, but do you really need to
be in a family where you’re hiding in corners and slowly going crazy?
Tori25 (ESI)
: Cassiopea, these relations will not change. You are
different. Sorry if I’m very categorical, but your ESI husband will
continue this relationship until the very last. He’s unlikely to break
it off himself, and eventually both of you will start to hate one
another. You have to decide this for yourself. Adapting and agreeing
with everything won’t work. You will accumulate a lot of irritation that
will pour out into angry outbursts. You’ll feel yourself a cornered
animal, that is incapable of anything, that can’t do anything right,
whose hands grow from the wrong place and whose head isn’t working
properly. It’s awful. Along with this, you’ll continue seeing your ESI
husband as a good person. Over time, this will cause an enormous loss of
self-esteem. You’ll stop liking yourself, become closed off, neurotic
and hysterical. So my advice to you, if you don’t want to lose yourself,
if you want to enjoy your life, the sun and fresh breeze outside, and
notice the smiles of the people and respond to them without fear - you
need to leave. Believe me, no matter how you want to change something in
your relationship with him - everything will change for exactly that
amount of time, until there is another “episode” and he will immediately
forgets his previous promises. Because you cannot change another
person’s character. It is already formed, a certain picture of the world
is already imprinted, both for you and for him. And they are very
different pictures. And nothing can change this.
Kobra (IEI)
: My mother is of type ESI. Intellectually our relations
are very good, but in everything else … she often feels that I am not
sensitive enough** and not responsive enough towards her, while I don’t
understand why she cannot tell this to me in a way that isn’t hurtful to
me, but then, I don’t always interpret what she says in the way that she
has meant it. I don’t feel supported by her. Very often her words
painfully sting me. It turns out that I’m always wrong, and by this I
feel emotionally pressured and suppressed by her, while my reaction to
her emotional pressuring is often upsetting to her.
[
Problematic in IEI-ESI relations is that fact that IEI’s Fe falls
on ESI’s ignoring or limiting function. Thus all the tenderness,
love, and affection that IEIs express through creative Fe is simply
left out of ESI’s perception - it is unintentionally ignored by them.
Thus, ESIs may see IEIs as being insensitive, not warm and kind
enough, even wicked, due to peculiarities of ESI’s own TIM model that
completely ignores IEI’s ethical expression.
]
scary_miracle (IEI)
: My type is IEI, my mom is of type ESI. On the
positive side, I have learned from her, and finally understood for
myself, that it’s better to do some things right now, so that they
don’t hang over my head later. I became more thrifty and economical,
started paying more attention to the material quality of things that I
buy, try to manage my budget and not overspend. About the negatives: I
am tired of her saying: “Attitude/relation is shown by actions, not by
words.” Sometimes I just want for someone to love me and need me as I
am, to let me know that it will really suck for them to be without me.
I cannot interpret material care as a proof of love. When we quarrel,
several times I’ve caught myself saying, “I understand now - what you
really need is a housekeeper and a rote memorizer, but what’s inside
me, what’s in my soul, you care nothing of it!” Sometimes she will say
something as a joke and it will sound offensive and crudish to me. I
feel like she is killing my personality. She would say things like “it
would have been good to do this” or “it would be good to think like
that” and then later “I didn’t force you to do anything! Don’t you
have your own head on the shoulders?” And make of this whatever you
wish …
Additionally, my style in clothing is also being slowly destroyed, and
again only from the ‘best intentions’: “You don’t understand anything,
you don’t have your own style, I will teach you how to dress.” Then,
there are reprimands from my ESI mother reg
[
The beneficiary is often hyper-attentive to benefactor’s wishes
and wants, which the beneficiary subconsciously interprets as calls
to realize them. The benefactor is often surprised after the fact,
since the benefactor has not directly told or forced the beneficiary
to do anything.
]
Ensoleiller (IEI)
: +1 scary_miracle, some these positives and
negatives were similar to my relationship with my ESI mother. What gets
to me in these relations is that I understand her, and I’m willing to go
for a compromise, because I love her and am grateful for everything that
she does. But from her side it’s like a blank wall. There is no
understanding - only a total unwillingness to understand. And I am lost
as to why??** I’m not talking about support - just for her to stop
criticizing and inserting sticks into my wheels. Latest surprise: I
opened up my own small business. My mother, without asking me a single
question, went to a LIE girl who is 5 years younger than me (19 and 24)
but whom she considers to be “serious”, and started asking her
questions: what am I doing? am I acting right towards other people? is
there something that I’m doing wrong? Only later did she come talk to
me. For me this was a slap on the face, considering that this LIE girl
has set me up and let me down before and later came to ask for my
forgiveness. My mother’s actions to me constitute a betrayal by the
person closest to me. That she admires this girl and sets her as an
example for me … even knowing about socionics such development in our
relationship was painful for me to accept.
[
These are classical benefit relations where the beneficiary
doesn’t feel like the benefactor hears her: IEI’s creative function
falls on ignoring aka limiting function of ESI, thus what the IEI
tries to convey by creative function simply gets ignored by the ESI
and the IEI feels like the ESI doesn’t hear, doesn’t understand.
]
Frost Mirriam (IEI)
: My mom is also ESI - and this is brutal. We can
co-exist normally only if we’re separated by X number of kilometers.
When we live together we quarrel every day. She irritates me by her
grounded sarcastic rationalism, that sometimes she takes to the point of
absurdity. Her attempts to pressure me drive me mad. She also regularly
reads me morals, saying that I am lazy, that I don’t do anything - by
this she tries to give me “a Se kick”, to somehow stimulate me to
frantic activity. She compares me to my peers who are more successful in
her opinion. If something is forbidden, she starts to carefully explain
why it is so, and usually it boils down to “because the current of
things is very bad, and doing anything is irrational”, instead of just
saying “no” in such a way that I would have no further questions. When
I’m getting ready to leave the house, every 5 minutes I am told how much
time is left and hurried up (weak intuition). In general, constant
hurrying is the favorite activity of both my ESI friend and my ESI
mother. They also have a similar, and very specific, sense of humor.
Naivety (IEI)
: Ok, so I want to cook something or do something
useful around the house. I ask my ESI mother a specific question and
instead of receiving a concrete answer I get a half an hour long lecture
where the total useful information for me is “I don’t know, I use
ingredients by the eye”. After this I start inquiring about approximate
portions and common methods. While I’m trying to get the answer that I
need, my nerves get seriously tested, and I feel that I should run away,
somewhere deep into the forest, before all of this ends with me becoming
hysterical. And then I get criticized that I didn’t do something well or
that I took too long to do it. For conversation my ESI mother has entire
two topics: education and faults of the younger generation. ESIs also
don’t listen! They ask something, but then proceed to do things their
own way. Why ask in the first place? One day I return from a trip and my
mom asks me whether to prepare some food for me. I say “no thanks” that
I bought some products on the way back and I’ll cook something myself.
Then I go to another room to unpack my bags. Suddenly I hear sounds
coming from the kitchen. I look and there is my mother heating the milk
that I was saving for an omelette. This is what I don’t understand: why
do something when you were told that it’s not needed to be done? Ok, so
my mom is only trying to help me, right? Everything is good and fine.
Only within half an hour I get a lecture from her about how lazy I am,
how I cannot plan anything, such that she always has to help me and do
things for me.** Sorry for the morning outcry!
[
The benefactor is perceptive of beneficiary’s insufficient
dual-seeking function. In this case, the ESI mother feels her IEI
daughter’s weakness in Te - poor ability to rationally organize her
activities and plan her actions - and tries to help her prepare a
meal at the same time criticizing her for this perceived flaw, while
the IEI daughter does not understand why she’s doing this.
]
gala83 (IEI)
: My mom is also Dreiser - I wouldn’t wish this upon
anyone! Dreiser will do everything for the good of her children: will
make decisions for them, give them the magical “Se kick in the behind”,
can even materially provide for them at the beginning - just do as
you’re being told, go to school, get a degree in finance, every day
clean and organize your home, lead a budget, be a rational type, be an
LSE, be anyone but yourself. Everything good that there is in the IEI
the ESI simply doesn’t notice. She attempts to remake the IEI’s
personality, to turn the IEI inside out. Meanwhile, my LSE sister would
be set as an example for me. Now I work in an office. I feel unhappy,
inhibited and suppressed, my life feels empty. The expression on my face
most of the time is unemotional, serious, and focused. I tried talking
with my mother, telling her that I’m not living my life - her reply was:
“Everyone lives this way, and nothing terrible happens to them.” Then
once again I begin to see that my own mother is not my friend but an
enemy. She thinks that I am rude, that I have poor character, that I’m
too callous and insensitive. But she cannot imagine how year after year
I had to break myself to fit into her ideal image of a daughter. It’s
very difficult to not be yourself, to have to wear a mask day after day.
I’ve taken up painting. She said go ahead, paint, no one is stopping
you, but do it on your free time as a hobby. When I create something
exceptionally beautiful and it is admired and asked for by my friends -
and then I feel truly happy!!! But later, ESI’s ‘program’ takes over
again and things become grey, lifeless, materially shallow, without any
deep meaning or purpose.
Luiren (SLE)
: On topic, I’ve watched two of these benefit pairs
over twenty long years. One was of ESI mother and IEI daughter. Vivid
relations in all their glory, but in this case I felt somewhat sorry
for the ESI because any of her attempts to influence the IEI during
the period of IEI’s creative crisis (which was permanent btw) turned
into Hysterics with a capital letter H. I have actually understood
that the IEI was waiting for the SLE’s “face->table – end of kitty”
reaction, while what she got from her ESI mother was a couple of
scathing, caustic remarks, which would leave her feeling as if she was
just spit at. And from this she would become hysterical and try to run
away into the sunset.
In these relations it’s crucial to have a wish to adapt and to try to
understand what the other party means in a slightly different
interpretation. ESI’s can be explained what they’re doing wrong, and
adequate persons of this type will even try to change, fix, and
correct things. The main thing is to remember that you should 1)
simply tell the ESI of your experiences and your feelings 2) be ready
to receive and accept their response. Communicate with them over
feelings. As your dual I know this quite well. Often IEIs will drive
themselves into a corner and start over-reacting to ESI’s every word.
This is generally bad, especially with ESIs because it drives them
into stupor. They will start looking for causes of such a reaction in
themselves, in you, in everything around them, and will utterly
exhaust themselves (and you) with this.
The second example I observed was of IEI-ESI sisters, where the IEI
was the older of the two. An exemplar of this type of which one can
tell legends of the “Spherical IEI in a Vacuum”. The ESI is now a
serious lady, but previously she was a boisterous youngster who used
to prod and provoke the IEI when they were kids. After such
provocations, the IEI would go complain to their mother and the ESI
would get punished, which she was convinced was injustice, proceed to
feel wronged and offended, and repeat the same. Now every word that
comes from the ESI from “Clean the dishes!” to “Get a job, stupid!”
brings the IEI to tears. While I, as an outside observer, couldn’t
understand what was happening. Talking later to the IEI I found out
that she simply cannot refuse the ESI, thus she feels like she is
being used, and this is making her very upset and driving her crazy.
While the ESI, as an ethical type, cannot remain silent while she’s
being accused of something she hasn’t done and is not guilty of in her
view.
Actually, I came across quite adequate examples of type Dreiser. Ready
to listen, to establish contact. But it would all come apart after an
emotional explosion. As a logical type, this is hard for me to
understand. Just talk more with your significant other about your
experiences. And turn a deaf ear when he tries to sort out where to
place blame. It’s just … their type. And remember, you aren’t to
blame for all these “sins”. I myself live very well in supervision
relations with Dreiser. Yes, sometimes they are dense, but you have to
speak to them. They don’t understand hysterics. At all. With love,
your dual.
– from VK discussions:
https://vk.com/topic-38580757_26674174
Both IEI
and ESI are introverts, so most likely they will quietly sit together
somewhere, like a cafe, and talk, rather than visit places with large
crowds of people. Each of them has their own “inner world”, which is
quite sufficient for both of them. After getting acquainted, the IEI
wins over the trust of the Guardian by his sincerity and his bright
ideas and fantasies. The IEI is able to relax the ESI’s state of
internal control and alleviate ESI’s tension and stress with affection
and tenderness. With him one can dream, talk about ideals, about the
eternal and the bright. However, beyond some point the ESI ceases to
understand what the IEI is trying to tell him. IEI’s abstract worlds
stop being of interest to the ESI, causing only irritation. Problems
also arise over some measure of impracticality and carelessness of the
IEI. Trying to make Esenin follow some rules the ESI may be faced with a
sharp rebuff: “Don’t tell me how to live!” In general, IEIs respond
positively to attempts to organize them and give them structure, but the
main thing is to not overdo it, which is where the ESI can overstep
certain limits causing irritation and frustration for the IEI. ESIs
themselves like having control over the situation, but only as long as
the ESI doesn’t find him/herself doing everything for his or her
partner. In general these are good relations. Conflicts don’t come by
frequently. Appreciate your IEIs and they will reply with an
incorruptible and pure love.