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Conflict observations
¶
Related discussions
¶
Stages of Conflict
Some conflict relations are better than others?
What do you dislike about your conflictor?
Positive experiences with your conflictor
Feelings of distrust between conflictors
Are conflict relationships impossible to fix?
Ethical types in Conflict Relations
Functional break-down: Conflict Relations
Conflict Relations Marriages
Advice for Conflict Marriage
IEI-LSE
ILI-ESE
LSI-IEE
LII-SEE
ESI-ILE
LIE conflicted over lack of conflict with conflictor
IEI-LSE
¶
Para (IEI):
After 10 years of marriage, we have gotten divorced,
which was 5 years ago. My ex-husband’s TIM is LSE, Stirlitz - my
conflictor. I won’t try to re-tell of my hurts and suffering in this
marriage with socionics humor - this would be offensive and unfair
towards both of us. But, since we have two children between us, we
have to communicate even after the divorce. I have returned back to
Socionics and tried applying it in practice. And you know - it worked!
(for our situation that is: we interact briefly and infrequently). My
certainty that my LSE ex-husband is a rare kind of a reptile and the
last bastard - was shaken. At the last custody meeting he was trying
to sort things out telling me the following: “We haven’t finished
discussing one question, and you already jumped to a second difficult
one. What kind of manner is this?” For the first time I have tried to
look “behind” his words (that were familiar to me like a 10-year
stomach ulcer), and sympathized with how he must have suffered with me
for the past 10 years and the 5 years after our separation. This
conversation was concurrent with my return to Socionics. Now, I am
much more calm and tolerant of his boring tediousness. I patiently
repeat things several times for him, for example, what we are going to
do with kids this Sunday; at the same time I try to talk slowly
(though this way my own thinking slows down greatly), and provide for
him precise information in written form. Any kind of agreements I
voice out loud for him, write them down, and then later refer to them
if he has any questions. The hardest part so far has been scheduling
visitation dates. He has been late to the visits for over an hour many
times - I’ve understood that it’s best to not wait in expectation, but
meanwhile do something positive for my kids and myself. I tell our
children to not ask: “When will our dad be here?” When he finally
comes, it turns into a pleasant surprise for them - and an unpleasant
one for me. Unfortunately, it’s not possible to adapt to some things
…
As an example of how his interests get ignored: Problems and issues
that arise suddenly, and require an immediate resolution, are almost
impossible to resolve with him quickly - I’ve stopped wishing for
this. In such cases, what he requires is a lengthy period of verbal
verifications, checks, and agreements. Thus, such urgent issues as
purchasing bicycles for out kids for the summer that is coming in a
few weeks I have to solve myself - then later receive a verbal “smack”
from him: “Why wasn’t I consulted? I know bicycle models that are
cheaper and of better quality.” In such situations, it is easier to me
to act first, then get reprimanded by him later, than to go through
these tedious periods of back-and-forth verification. Since my LSE
ex-husband was sure I wouldn’t survive on my own due to my
impracticality (and it is true!!! I now need to receive external
financial support), sometimes I arrange for him a “session of
psychological relief”: for example, for a long time and thoroughly I
talk with him to receive his advice on how to buy a backpack - I call
him, call him back, verify with him, verify with him again, whether
the zippers are of “good quality” - I do this in cases when it’s not
difficult for me to do so, and at the same time it is pleasant for him
to participate - and, after 2-6 months of discussions, we have
excellent backpacks in our apartment! Next, I hope to share Socionics
literature to him, such that he would stop suspecting me of sadism,
and such that we could arrive at certain agreements for our painful
functions.
ESI-ILE
¶
Surik (IEI):
From far distance, ILEs may mistake ESIs for their
duals, since both are introverted types with strong ethics and sensing.
However, the ESI doesn’t apply her ethics in the same way as does the
SEI. The SEI manages ILE’s ethics by directing the conversation,
changing its course if needed, and influencing ILE’s own internal
states. The ESI instead tries to correct the ILE, pull him back, point
to his mistakes. However, being a rather creative type the ILE is
intolerant of any kinds of restrictions, limitations, and headstrong
pressure. The ILE responds to ESI’s directives with a protest, and this
further worsens their relations. The SEI listens to ILE’s advice, while
for the ESI, due to this type’s rationality, it seems like the ILE is
pulling her towards undertaking something rash and risky. In this manner
ILE’s advice makes the ESI feel even more distrustful and hold herself
back, and this only further reminds the ESI of her own vulnerabilities.
Litus (ILI):
I have before my eyes such couple, ESI wife and her ILE
husband. They are very different. It must be difficult for them: each
behaves as if the other must guess their needs, desires, and phobias.
Sometimes they fight, even wanted to divorce … but are still together.
Maybe because of the children. He is a real intellectual turbogenerator.
She is a realist and a romantic with a winged heart. He’s always
involved in new ideas and projects, reads a book a day, loves being in
warm and loud company of friends, who in turn love and appreciate him.
Thus, he’s always occupied by something. She pulls everything on her
shoulders - it must be said that ESI’s capacity for doing work and for
self-sacrifice are admirable. But what is notable of her, is that with
all ESI’s desire and ability to keep the house in order, she poorly
tolerates it when she is driven to cooking pans and laundry - especially
with hints and examples of the type: “So-and-so colleague’s wife is a
such a great cook. She baked a wonderful cake that he shared at work
today.” Occasionally, her ILE husband takes up domestic tasks and chores
with great enthusiasm. He reads through a lot of literature, consults
with specialists, starts on some task and then abandons it in the
middle. The ESI is shocked. To this day this surprises her. In a company
of friends she doesn’t feel at ease with him: he sparks a conversation,
becomes absorbed, while she spends the whole evening without attention
as if she doesn’t exist. The ILE is surprised by this - if she got tired
of listening to a conversation about networks she could have went and
made a salad. In addition, in a company the ILE can make many promises
without noticing. The ESI, with her exaggerated sense of responsibility,
feels maddened by this: he promised - but he didn’t do! The ILE doesn’t
understand: to whom, where, and how he has made any promises. All he
said is that he has such opportunity - but this is a very different
matter! The ESI begins to explain why he shouldn’t do this, fails to
convince him, tries to pressure him - as a result another fight. What
else is noticeable to me as an outside observer? The ILE needs to be
taken care of - but he takes all care for granted - which annoys his ESI
wife. If she likes a person, she knows what that person needs - but to
be always cooing around her husband is probably not for ESI. There are
also disagreements over children. The ESI is a loving parent, but also
strict and fair. Her children are provided for with everything, but she
doesn’t tolerate laziness, capriciousness, self-indulgence, cruelty, and
nips such attitudes at their bud. The ILE seemingly agrees, but sees all
of this from another side. It often happens that the father is good,
while the mother - not so good. With father it is interesting, fun, and
entertaining - while the mother demands, forces to do homework and
chores, to keep the room clean. Fortunately, the ILE easily forgives and
becomes cheerful again, while the ESI has an incredible supply of
strength, stamina, and patience. Both of them have a developed sense of
duty towards their children, thus they continue to live together and
compromise.
Emerald (ILE):
From Stratiyevskaya’s description of these conflict
relations, a lot has overlapped my relationship with my ex (a fairly
obvious ESI). He was always hectoring me that I lack in self-control,
that I’m not understanding of people, and that I don’t wish to change,
and that I have to act “ethically” towards him i.e. politely and
adequately, as “normal people” act. The most important thing for him
were his principles, that never changed from any influence, even though
he would end up tormenting himself and others - because he is a saint
with a halo, the Only Person, and others are rabble, and let them live
as they wish since they are “like that”. I’ve also tried to improve his
self-esteem, show him chances for changing his life for the better,
invent new ways for him, show him ways out of his difficulties,
compliment him, and it was all true - that he is so good-looking, that
he is such a good person, and so on. But still he didn’t want to get out
of his swamp. My temper found no understanding with him, neither did he
spare my nerves, and considered me to be almost the most insufferable
creature in all his life. We even broke up on the ground of
“opportunities” - in brief, I organized a trip for him. He was in doubt
about this trip. He told me that in his heart he dreamed of going but
was too afraid that nothing good will come out of the venture. So I took
the matters in my own hands and arranged everything for him - I pushed
him towards his dream. Because he told me this was his dream, I thought
he will appreciate this … but he stunned me with his reaction. First,
he became hysterical and started to accuse me that I’m impossible, that
every time I throw something new not taking him into consideration, and
that I don’t wish to change. I was most surprised when I heard him say:
“You paved the road yourself - now you’re the only one responsible for
whatever comes out of this.” I thought it was unmanly for him to try to
shift responsibility for his future actions instead of being happy that
his dream was coming true.
Adam (ILE):
At work I have a colleague - he is the head of the
prepress department, by TIM - ESI. We’re conflictors in Socionics …
hell, I could already feel this from the first day of work. To my deep
regret, we have to work very closely, or rather, I pass on project
assignments to him and receive already finished layouts. Frictions
started from the very beginning - he seemed to be a total bore, who’s
always finds faults with minor things and is only looking for excuses
to quarrel, and that he doesn’t understand very simple things and will
ask such stupid questions. At the same time, I saw that he was a
specialist in his field, and his amazing attentiveness to specifics
(introverted sensing type, after all) has saved me on many occasions.
But after every meeting, I would leave the room steaming with
frustration and anger. I couldn’t understand what exactly irritated
him, and wrote it off to him having a difficult personality. For three
years I’ve agonized like this. A year ago I started studying
Socionics, and, naturally, started typing everyone I knew. When the
turn came to him - damn, he’s an ESI, a typical one - everything fits!
So where does all the friction come from? Simple: when I explain
things to him in my usual ILE manner, skipping some seemingly obvious
things and saving a lot for the later saying “We’ll see how it goes”
all of this hits his “vulnerable” function. Next, I thought: what can
be done about this? what is his suggestive function? It’s “logic of
actions”, Te. Ok, even though this is my subconscious function, lets
try something different. At the next meeting, for which I carefully
prepared, I turned into a tedious bore myself. I went through every
little detail, describing it, while slowing down the rate of my speech
2-3 times for my ESI colleague (from my end, this felt like a
perversion of some kind). Eventually, I notice a satisfied expression
on his face, and even some kind of tranquility there. Wow! I finished
my speech, he graciously shook his head, from which I understood that
I have finally found the least painful way of transferring information
to him. From that time on, I prepare for each meeting as if I’m
studying for an exam.
One more small thing to mention - hurrying him up is useless. I mean
volitionally pressuring him. He would simply “clash his horns” with
you, even start shouting (volitional extraverted sensing), and from
there nothing could be done. Ok, l have tried a different approach.
Now, with a serious expression on my face, I tell him: “All hopes rest
on you now. The client has asked the layout to be finished by 3:00pm
tomorrow. Please pay special attention to this project. Thank you in
advance.” Of course, me may mutter something critical about the
client, but this doesn’t concern me - I leave with a clear conscience
and with certainty that he will do everything possible to make it on
time. This is all.
Lytov:
I can give brief recommendations for ILEs on how to get
along with ESIs. ESI is a sensing type and judges people by
“appearance” i.e. the externals. To calm the ESI, create a stable
reputation, your own “legend”, and periodically demonstrate its
success. For example: “I know how to do this-and-this. I consider this
to be my calling and I achieve significant success at what I do.”
Success, attainment of some concrete results - are the most important
criteria for the ESI and their suggestive function. However, if the
ESI doesn’t see any tangible results coming out of your activities,
then he or she will start feeling nervous. Thus create an image of a
successful person pursuing some tangible goal. Don’t try to explain
everything to ESIs with introverted logic. They react to it as
negatively as Ne types react to any sensory impositions and
pressuring. ESIs absorb logic in moderate amounts, in form of
explanations of “how it works”. Regarding everything else, the ESI
reacts to a person positively if he or she a) acts predictably for the
ESI b) is so influential, that he can himself direct this
predictability, or at least create and impression that everything is
under control, and share a part of this predictable world with the
ESI. That’s it. So what’s so difficult here? The difficulty here is
that an ILE possesses a large amount of knowledge, several times
higher than what an ILE is actually able to control. This leads to
conflicts only at very short personal distances. Most usually, the ESI
watches the ILE from afar and thinks to him or herself: “Just as I
thought - he’s a windbag”, and doesn’t move any closer than this. The
ESI may casually talk with the ILE, exchange some jokes and anecdotes,
but won’t get any more serious.
In a professional sense within a closed group, the goals of ILE and
ESI are sufficiently different. The ESI doesn’t hesitate to openly
talk about why such-and-such “tasty” project was given to someone else
and not to the ESI. The worst the ILE can say here (which he usually
does) is to say something akin “it was done in all fairness” or “for
everyone equal treatment”. The ESI has a completely different sense of
what is fair - if he has invested the efforts, there should be some
benefit, some positive result. If this is what he sees happening
around him, the ESI will be a good worker. If the ESI sees that people
who are “less deserving” in his eyes are getting promoted - he will
actively oppose this, if he has powers - then formally, if he doesn’t
have powers - then informally, through private conversations i.e. try
to prepare the ground, because sooner or later the balance of power
may change. The ILE thinking about the project can completely forget
about personnel and relations - the ESI never forgets this.
Artebast (ILE):
I’m very familiar with only one person of type ESI
- that is my mother. I won’t describe our relationship here, as
relations mother-daughter are responsible for a large share of our
relational complexities rather than our Socionics TIMs. On the whole,
for the ILE having an ESI mother is not the worst situation - there is
some support over weak functions, plus ESIs are usually caring people,
such that I didn’t feel lacking in love and care as a child. Now we
have a rather smooth relationship, but at a large distance. There is
no question, of course, about any kind of personal understanding and
closeness. There is my attitude “mother cannot be abandoned” and
respect - this is how we keep together.
As a distance, ESIs make a good impression. These are people who seem
to be “as is needed and appropriate”, that is, they evoke the thought
“this is how a woman or a man should be”. Everything in their life is
conducted correctly, with integrity, and without excess. They are just
the right measure sociable, and just the right measure beautiful. In
past, I’ve had several opportunities to begin relationships with ESIs,
but due to painful Fi and a sense of psychological discomfort I soon
feel that I cannot open up with this person - that I won’t be accepted
as I am, that we’re on “different frequencies”. Communication with ESI
is full of small talk - there is a list of acceptable conversation
topics, and as soon as you step a little bit beyond this, the other is
shocked: “what is he/she talking about?!” Thus, our communication
turns out to be empty.
I have also worked with a few ESIs - as teachers, scientific director,
and the head of our department. In all cases I did all the work
myself, after specifying with the ESI what result is needed, which in
itself is not easy because they are not keen on explaining anything.
Here, the main thing is to not talk about the process of how you’re
working, but to show ESI the result. And again - keep all
communication on formal level.
A few words for why ILEs shouldn’t try to build serious relations with
ESIs:
* If living together, the element of surprise is completely lost from
ILE’s life. Arranging pleasant surprises for the ESI doesn’t work -
she gets scared, and even if she liked the surprise the first reaction
is such that there is no wish to ever surprise her again. If the ILE
wants to travel with or without the ESI to some new place, a huge
amount of time is spent on explaining that “it’s not dangerous”. Any
initiative is extinguished by a frightened look: “why do you need
this?” This is a disaster for irrational ILE for whom life consists of
finding good chances and opportunities and opening new horizons.
Turning his own life into a swamp, even if a stable one, is not an
option.
* Cheerfulness. There is a feeling that ESIs are afraid to enjoy
life. They think that once they relax even a little and show some
weakness, the villain-fate will immediately trip them over.
“Everything is too good - expect trouble.” ESIs prefer to be always
alert and apprehensive about something. As a result, it never happens
that the ESI is fully satisfied; he/she will always point out some
negative - as a “preventative measure”.
* How ESIs like to pose themselves as victims is entirely another
story. This goes according to the principle: “I will suffer in silence
for now, but when it becomes unbearable I will tell him everything -
let him feel guilty!” This results in something akin to “You’re
entertaining yourself here - and I’ve been sick for a week!” Their
partner had to guess. While all these various kind of sufferings
aren’t needed in Alpha quadra (and it would be interesting to know who
needs them!) And if the ESI is enjoying herself, it’s often done
quietly, to herself. This makes the ILE doubt whether he or she is
needed at all. The ILE expresses these doubts out loud - and receives
a lecture about sense of duty. It turns out we were living together
not because we “wanted” this, but because “it is necessary”.
Wonderful.
* And another point. With ESI’s involvement, ILE’s circle of friends
starts to rapidly shrink, because the ESI carefully filters out “wrong
kind” of friends. But the ILE is not the LIE, and is capable of
filtering people himself. The ILE has to strain over ethical functions
to establish new friendships - here the ESI is of no help, as she
filters out people, but doesn’t introduce anyone new in their place -
usually her own circle of friends is very small. The ILE instead needs
someone who would find contacts for him. Here again we have a swamp.
In general, these two types can have good casual friendly relations.
They could even be good colleagues and work together given some effort
from the ILE, but starting a family together categorically should not
be considered, imho. For casual friendships TIM is not very important,
thus “conflictors” may socialize in the same circle of people. The
problem is that neither is oriented at expansion of their social
circle (or rather, ESI isn’t oriented at this - while ILE doesn’t know
how). I, for example, can meet up with people whom I barely know and
go out to some cafe. The ESI meets this with hostility: “Why are you
wasting your time on him? Who is he to you?” And also tries to figure
out how a person is useful. If it turns out that with nothing, ESI’s
disturbance has no limit. The ESI needs tight, trusting relationships
within a narrow circle of people, and no spreading out. While I don’t
understand what the problem is - for me, this feeds my Fe, and it’s
interesting to learn how other people live. What for ILE is only a
conversation, for the ESI is already “a relationship” that needs to be
carefully evaluated and built.
Alen (SLI):
I know a mother and daughter of types ESI and ILE,
respectively. They fight almost every evening right before my eyes. The
mother tries to push through - the daughter resists and clashes with
her. To her mother’s shouting she responds by becoming even more
stubborn. The mother accuses her of not being loving, which in daughter
evokes a strange kind of obstinacy. Yet, the ESI doesn’t make any
compliments herself, only carps and criticizes her. For example, the
daughter isn’t doing something that she doesn’t want to do. For the ESI
it’s not important. It has to be done, therefore do it. There are no
objective reasons to do what the ESI asks - both ILE and I (SLI) see
this. But the ESI has her own rules and any violations are strictly
punished. ESI starts to push for it. ILE resists. I explain to the ILE
that she should try to compromise and do what her mother asks her to do.
She agrees and meets ESI’s demands. And guess what happens? Instead of
quietly taking a step forward, praising her, giving some positive
feedback, the ESI starts to reprimand her ILE daughter again, that she
hasn’t listened to her the first time and done it sooner. Conflict
restarts. The ESI simply doesn’t understand how she is messing up; she
presses her own model of life and doesn’t move an inch.
Ivan (ILE):
ESI - is pure evil. The essence of all nine circles of
hell. Every word infuriates and every look incinerates. To sleep, eat,
shit, screw with someone else’s mind, and get more and more money -
this is ESI’s life. “I have lived my life and will live out yours” -
this is the philosophy of Dreiser. The tale of “The Fisherman and the
Golden Fish” is the most accurate description of this type; however
much money you give them - it’s never enough. They should be sent to
inhabit a separate planet along with LIEs. My type is ILE, but thanks
to my ESI mother, I’ve become more alike an LII. Because the only way
to live next to Dreiser is to become a robot. And even then, you’ll
get billed for electricity and oil. ESI’s overprotection is worse than
getting no care at all. From my ESI mother I often hear: “Where have
you been? Why did you come home so late? You’re out entertaining
yourself, while I’m sitting here, worrying.” Next to ESIs people don’t
live - they merely exist on ESI’s conditions. Until 15-16 years of age
this is fine, but later such questions begin to infuriate. And to call
ESIs “sweet and caring,” despite the fact that ESIs are “aggressors”,
is stupid. I would have nicknamed this type not “The Guardian” but
“The Inquisitor” …
The ILE is sent to get education where his ESI mother wants him to go
- after all, the mother knows better what her children need than the
children know themselves. Of course, every child dreams of working at
a factory until the end of his life and supporting his parents on a
meager wage. A person with IQ near 130 - for certain! “What did you
think? Everyone lives like this! Everyone!” therefore you should go
and get a job “like everyone else”. This “like everyone else” has
followed me for the rest of my life. If you protest such treatment,
there is always the response: “But I do so much for you, try hard and
work so much!” No, you don’t do it for us - you do it for yourself.
The ESI thinks that she is doing something for others, but instead she
is acting out of sheer selfishness and only pretends to help others.
You cannot do something for the good of the person, without asking his
or her opinion on the matter. With ESI - you just get put before the
fact. Now only try doing something wrong - the reproaches and the
piercing-black trampling reprimanding gaze will pursue you for weeks.
This is not including the scandals and hysterics.
The ESI thinks that I am a 100% slacker who spends entire day on the
internet, when men should spend 18 hours at work every day and come
back home only to catch some sleep - this is her logic. A couple times
I have tried to follow her advice and apply where she suggested. Twice
the offer turned out to be a hoax, since she cannot distinguish a real
job offer from a rip-off. Though her dual Jack, however, will take up
such junk. When I got a job, the conditions were horrible. All of my
attempts to change something were in vain. Things got to regular
nosebleeds and headaches, not to mention frequent injuries due to my
natural absent-mindedness. But this doesn’t worry the ESI - “You’ve
finally found a normal job - now don’t even think about quitting!” All
of my attempts to explain our differences to her with the aid of
Socionics are met with: “Again, you’re pestering me with this
nonsense?” She doesn’t understand that people have other values ??in
life, and that not everyone lives on her templates and stereotype. To
me it seems that she doesn’t understand anything - and doesn’t want to
understand. My results and achievements in life would have been much
greater without her control and her attempts to instill her views into
me. I wanted to study computer science, but she told me: “You just
want to sit in front of your computer your whole life! Go and learn
how to build rockets to get a job at the local military factory, and
you’ll turn out into a normal person.” Sometimes I want to curse, but
hold myself back - she’s my mother after all. Moving out is an
impossibility at this point, thus I live with her as if in a
high-security prison. Only ILI and LIE are able to live with an ESI -
the former has no will, the later lives at work. The funny thing is
that at age 21, I already had a “midlife crisis”. It seemed to me that
I’m already at least 35 years old, and I was greatly upset because of
all of the missed opportunities. Indeed, there was a great number of
these. I could have studied not in a secondary school, but in a
specialized school with deepened subjects of mathematics or physics.
Then go into science, and by age 22 already have a degree and do
research. But no, “live like normal people” they said. Work at stupid
jobs, drink beer, buy a car, like your father - why the hell do I need
a car if I’m still bumping into furniture (scateredness is a constant
companion of an intuitive type).
Dreiser is an “introverted Caesar”. If she considers some space to be
“her territory” then everyone who lives in it have to live by her
rules and regulations, whether they like it or not. In the type
descriptions it clearly says: “[ESIs] don’t adapt themselves to
people, but impose their own line of conduct”. In other words, they
don’t at all consider someone else’s opinion, and there is no sense in
trying to argue or to challenge them. I can tell you with 100%
confidence that at least 60% of the Criminal Code was created for
people like LIE (another 25% for SLEs) by people like Dreiser. For
most people the “10 Commandments” are enough to live their lives, but
not for Jacks and Dreisers. The Alpha quadra has a developed sense of
justice (it is justice, not miserly selfish rules of Dreiser). Beta
over-bends the stick somewhat, but even SLEs with their temper don’t
deliberately cause discomfort to other people. Delta - is the most
“correct” responsible quadra. Gamma is quadra of charlatans (Jack) and
dictators (Dreiser). About SEEs and ILIs I won’t even continue.
Studying Socionics and making personal observations, most people who
come to dislike LIEs dislike them for their unscrupulousness. While
ESIs go unnoticed - they sit at home more, and dictate only on their
territory. LIE and ESI is that rare case when minus plus minus becomes
a plus. Most often the couples ESI-LIE are perceived as
“policeman-scoundrel” rather than “wife and husband”.
Her health is always getting worse, and I’m always to blame. I am to
blame that I don’t do as she wishes, I am to blame that she worries
(even though I’m not 10 any more), I am to blame that my father is SEE
(mirror types have regular quarrels). Her response is always the same:
her son sucks, her husband is awful - she’s so great but
unappreciated, and without her we’ll die of hunger within a week (most
importantly!). Sometimes I wish I was never born. I just want to cross
them out of my life, become that bastard child who has abandoned his
parents. In this sense I envy LIEs - they can do this, I cannot. In
these relations, the worst thing is that it’s impossible to get any
help and support, quite the reverse. This suppresses even more.
Instead of heading towards your goals, the road to which is already
very difficult, you also have a heavy weight strapped to you. This is
like moving through a swamp carrying something heavy and useless on
your shoulders. You can’t throw it away, and the path is very long. It
destroys your morale. Very often I go through periods of depression.
EII-SLE
¶
Delling (SLE):
In my deep opinion, there is no beast more scary than
an EII. So masterfully he rolls over the role and vulnerable functions
and forces the SLE to feel him/herself a callous, heartless tyrant,
unworthy of any warm feelings, that it is not rivaled by any other type.
I have extensive experience with a relationship of this type, and can
say that nothing good came out of this. At first, all is well: the EII
seems to be a gentle, quivering flower that you want to preserve
Differences in values. The EII is attracted by tales of Personhood
and Harmony (with a capital letter), without which “not a single
decision can be made that would be true to the end”. In EII’s
framework of timeless search for this, he/she will sit around and
with fervor dig into his own personality and personalities of other
people, at times persisting with personal questions. The SLE doesn’t
understand this. This desire for all-conquering Personal Wisdom and
Harmony doesn’t involve or touch me. I like setting goals before
myself and achieving them - struggling, overcoming difficulties,
overcoming my own complexes, winning over the circumstances, rather
than sitting around and meditating. To the EII all of these strivings
seem too simple, too primitive and crude.
The lead function of one is the painful function of the other. I’ll
give a few examples. One evening I was walking with an EII through a
dark park. Some jerk jumped us, and following my immediate impulses I
drove him away. Turning to my EII, pleased with the outcome, I wait
for some positive evaluation of what just occured. The EII looks at
me reproachfully and says: “You are full of such hatred …” What the
hell? … Another example. The EII is sitting at home without work
for several months. I’m beginning to feel annoyed by this, so I try
to make him go to job interviews, search for some vacancies, in brief
- to not sit around but find something to do. For me, any action,
even if erroneous, is better than inaction. Our conversation goes
like this: Me:
Why are you sitting in front of your computer and not
doing anything?
Him:
Sitting in front of my computer doesn’t mean
that I’m not going anything and not making any decisions!
To hell
with making decisions from morning to night - what is needed is
implementing and realizing them! For me, with my role Ne, the
situation is simpler: I don’t see as many different ways of going
about something as does the EII, so it’s easier for me to choose and
move to action. All of EII’s endless doubts and discussions about
which way to proceed feel annoying to the SLE.
Jealousy. There is no way around it. Hanging out with female friends
and letting them take him out to cafes and restaurants is a regular
occurrence for the EII. I don’t consider regularly treating someone
in cafes and restaurants to be “just friendship” - no woman would do
this. The EII would respond by accusing me of paranoia, while I would
tell him that he’s chasing two girl-hares at the same time.
The struggle for dominance in a relationship. My request to the EII:
“
If you want to be the leader - prove it, prove that you’re stronger
than me!
” EII’s response: “
I’m not obligated to prove anything - I
am the leader because I am the man in this relationship!
” Perhaps
this comes from different interpretations of “aristocratic” trait in
quadra: in Beta leadership is actively achieved and demonstrated,
while in Delta it is destined by a particular rule: birth-right,
belonging to something or other, etc.
Differences in how we handle problems. Se doesn’t adapt and attempt
to talk around the problem - it handles and resolves the problem head
on. If a person prefers to ignore, withdraw, or drown it in endless
discussion, the Beta “quadral complex” gets turned on: “How is it
that you’re backing down?? Who are you after this?!” I’m simplifying
of course, but such is Se that when it sees a mountain - it climbs
it, instead of going around or talking about it at length. Which
option is best - I honestly don’t know. Each has his or her own
truth.
Various kinds of misunderstandings. I like Se-humor, while for the
EII it seems too crude. To him I seem too serious, and that I get too
worked up over various insignificant things. He talks a lot about
appreciation and kindness towards other people, and duty before them,
while I mostly feel indifference towards people who are strangers to
me. For appreciation, I have people who are close and dear to me. I
value achieving much in this life. The EII lacks in ambition. There
are many more things I could mention here.
In summary: SLE and EII are personages from different stories. For me
the relationship of conflict turned into something that takes away
enormous amount of strength, energy, time, and nerves and in place
leaves only a feeling of tiredness. I would have given prizes to LSEs
for their endurance - how do they manage to tolerate such duals?
Personable, cute, intelligent, supportive and articulate - but slowly
sucking your strengths out of you, while wrapping it all into a neat and
likable package of white ethics and black intuition.
Kansas (EIE):
My SLE boyfriend has talked a lot about his 2-year
relationship with a girl of type EII. Everything was well at the start,
but now he remembers their relationship almost shuddering, as if from a
toothache, and can’t stand to look at her pictures. He said: “All we did
was fight, and when we fought, we fought hard.” It came to physical
altercations. Because when SLE is angered it’s best not to approach him,
while she would provoke him even further, go into hysterics, start
crying, and when SLE sees a weak victim, he squeezes the person even
harder until this person is completely crushed morally. After all this,
the EII forgave him everything and still loves him. She still writes
him, even after their break-up, says that she wants to be with him,
sends him tender words for his birthday. (So devoted are EIIs, no matter
what is done to them.) But all this devotion and forgiveness the SLE
sees as a weakness of character, due to which he would often tell her
that she is “incapable of anything adulator that allows others to do
with her anything they want”. He is a gentle man (around me at least),
but this EII drove him into a fury. About her he would say “she’s not a
person at all”, and when I asked him to explain what he means by this,
he said that she is always up in the clouds, that she is poorly adapted
to life, that in her manners and behaviors he only saw an annoying
puppet theater (that she depicted herself as so fitting, sweet, and
feminine, but he had a hard time believing in this).
Haski (SLE):
We just had a new person join our work place, type EII.
Give me some valium now. I’m used to doing everything quickly, making
decisions and resolving things on the spot, keeping all documentation in
order. The EII … is always distracted, always in some virtual clouds,
she often leaves and goes for smoke breaks, forgets that she needs to be
working and preparing reports. When my patience ends, she makes these
big guilty eyes and persuades me that she was only doing what she
thought was best, that she finished everything so she took a break, then
looks like she is about to cry, which only increases my vexation. In
summary, I’m experiencing the very essence of conflict relations at my
work place.
Teppa (SLE):
I have a friend of type EII. In reality in conflict
relations you can find a lot of common ground and shared interests. We
have been friends for many years with varying degrees of success with
our friendship, but on the background of peaceful coexistence it was
still possible to see how the EII is constantly looking for
contradictions in what I say. At first, I treated this as another option
or variation for another analysis of the situation. Later, I started to
notice that she is actually masterfully and purposefully “digging” up
these contradictions in order to oppose them. Well, I decided, such is
the socionics relationship between our types of information metabolism.
She’s constantly looking for these contradictions and omissions in words
of other people as well. After many years of friendship, I had to
distance from her when all attempts at communication ended in fights.
Now we communicate, but rarely and not very closely.