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Mirror observations
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LII-ILE
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Dustdevil (LII):
In my experience (adjust this by gender): in a
passive state, there is a fundamentally different approach to solving
problems. While the LII will measure seven times, and then sit down to
think how to optimize and make everything simpler on the basis of the
obtained measurements, the ILE will already sloppily do something. As a
result: mutual resentments - the LII is not satisfied with the quality
of work, the ILE is unhappy with the time the LII spent sitting around
inactive and thinking. So I am absolutely against any joint activity of
two mirrors. If you need to do something together, decide on who is
finish which part and do everything separately. In the active state,
however, this couple has many common interests and an absolute
understanding of each other. The question of how to spend time
pleasantly does not arise in principle. On the whole, I consider the
mirror relations to be a system that depends on the initial conditions.
When everything is good, both have a positive attitude, then there is a
positive feedback loop. When everything is bad, however, then this loop
spins in the opposite direction, and the situation starts to slowly
deteriorate every day.
Elzhe (ILE):
Actually, in my experience with LIIs the main thing is
to get used to the lack of the warmth that is usual for us. Understand
for yourself clearly that if the LII doesn’t speak with you, doesn’t
omit saying certain things, and does not smooth over sharp corners in a
conversation - this does not necessary mean that he or she does not like
you! As soon as an understanding arrives that LIIs express themselves in
a different way - half of the conflicts in this pair get smoothed out.
It is also true the LIIs are probably unaccustomed to ILE’s selfishness
and “freelance swimming” in the currents life. And in my opinion, the
ILE won’t so admiringly look into the statements of any other type
besides the LII. Not even his “benefactors”. But I would still like to
know how to convince LIIs to seriously treat problems that require
strong-willed activity and pressing on and prolonged overcoming of
difficulties. I have a feeling that LIIs very often follow the principle
of “the problem will somehow resolve itself/disappear on its own”.
Dustdevil (LII):
“LIIs very often follow the principle of “the
problem will somehow resolve itself/disappear on its own”” – This is
also absolutely symmetrical. I have a feeling that the ILEs invent half
of their problems by themselves, due to their rich Ne. In addition, for
active ILEs, the choice between “foregoing own interests” and “pulling
behind off a chair and doing something about it” is always resolved in
the favor of the later, while the LIIs can, after carefully evaluating
the effort required, decide that the issue is not worth it getting
involved.
sancta_simplicitas (LII):
Sometimes it does happen the a problem
dissolves on its own! On the topic, I do not envy any LII who has to
live under the same roof with an ILE. Most likely she will have to do
all the housework on her own. Maybe I’m measuring everything by my
yardstick. Maybe the most important thing for someone is being able to
talk to an intelligent person, then there is no one better than ILE.
However, in regard to domestic problems, IMHO, only an IEE can be worse
than an ILE.
From personal experience: When you want communicate at the level of the
ego - everything is fantastic. Full mutual understanding from half a
word, comradeship, creative upsurge, you grow in your own eyes due to
communicating on an equal footing with such an intelligent person. As my
ILE colleague has said: “You, LIIs, have the same sense of grandiosity
as ours, only you do not openly show it.” It is true that LIIs have a
kind of intellectual snobbery about them. And ILE is just that person
who not only understands and appreciates this, but also helps to
creatively develop your most sophisticated mental constructs. At the
level of the superego, the ILE slightly “bites”. A foreign PoLR is
annoying, so you try to “teach it” and “mend it” from your Role function
as much as you can. When it comes to Super-Id - turn the lights off! It
will make you forget even about the shared ego functions. From ILE’s
suggestive function comes some muddy blurry flow of wild, in my opinion,
requests for Si: give me - give me - give me! Come, stroke me, warm me
up, take care of me, remember that I’m cold / hot / hungry / lonely, I
feel bad, I’m sick, give, give, give! My own Si cannot withstand this.
I’ll give one example, perhaps. My father was of type ILE. My mother
still remembers when a relative came to visit us and brought an apple
for me (then these apples were a deficit), my father saw it and was
about to eat it. Our relative objected: “Mihail, put it down! - it’s for
the child.” Nevertheless, my dad ate the apple saying let the child know
that it’s necessary to share. And the child was 5 years old! I now think
that he was probably eating it and shedding tears on the inside, knowing
that he behaved selfishly and rudely while not understanding why he
acted like this. In general, it is easy for me to understand where ILEs
are coming from, but I would think twice about living in the same
apartment as them.
Friederike (LII):
I agree with the above. In regard to housework,
this is how it was with my first husband of type ILE. In the end, I was
tired of always choosing between only two alternatives: either just take
the whole load onto my shoulders, or divide the family responsibilities
and periodically (and with increasing frequency) remind my husband that
it would be nice if he took care of his part and not postponed it any
longer, and wait until I drop my affairs and take care everything on my
own. After three years of this I turned into such a nagging bore that I
felt sick of myself.
Regarding volitional actions … I remember there was some accident and
we had to live for a week without hot and cold water. I called in, heard
the standard answer that “work is under way,” and found out the address
of their nearest utilities office. The ILE began to loudly complain that
“an accident takes one day, but a week is already a universal
catastrophe,” and demand that I go to the office and “talk tough” with
their employees. On my counter-proposal of why not go and talk to them
himself, he answered: “But I’m not registered here!”. With all of this,
he is the most interesting person, the most clever, the most
knowledgeable, the best friend for me that there ever was. Even now if
me meet and talk I charge up with energy, mutual understanding - from
half-word, but to live together… no, it’s not for me.
Friederike (LII):
I have been in such a relationship. What can I say
- it would be better if we remained friend with my first husband ILE. It
was wonderful to talk to each other, we would not get bored with each
other for a minute. We got married while we were still students. The
first year we lived in euphoria. Then resentments, misunderstandings,
and mutual reproaches in selfishness began. Each of us thought that
we’re being neglected by the other. And that, in general, was true. Do
you know what the worst part was? It wasn’t even the emotional coldness
and neglect (neither of us immediately realized that we were lacking in
warmth and care). The worst part was that both of us became worse than
we really were in this marriage: more impatient, more limited, and
rapidly lost the good things that we had. We both looked for friends on
the side, yet, there was no jealousy between us, and such frank mutual
indifference was also a little offensive. After the first year it became
difficult to surprise and delight each other with something - we got
used to each other, so the typical reaction was: “Who cares? I can do
this myself!” I started becoming bitchier before my own eyes. It seemed
to me that I had to overpower myself for the sake of common interests,
to force myself, to take time off from what was really interesting to
me, and that I received nothing in return for all of this. My husband
thought similarly. Contrary to what was expected, separating was not so
easy. My husband theoretically agreed that we “traveled into the wrong
steppe”, but in general he was satisfied with this kind of life. For a
long time I could not decide to break things off, but when I finally
realized that there was no future, I put the point before him quite
decisively. For this I was called cruel, cold, and linear like a gate
barrier. I felt bad and anxious about this. We met by accident and
immediately (!) reconciled only in a few years. Now we are good friends,
and I cannot even believe that, apart from friendship, once there was
something more.
flamenka (LII):
Negative moments in the experience of the couple
above, I think, are caused by personal differences rather than intertype
ones. Mirror relations, in themselves, don’t come with any negative
load. For me personally, this is one of the most “easy” types of
relations, that is, these relations are easy and interesting at the same
time, there is a sense of commonality, our communication is lively and
there isn’t a particular need to re-adjust to each other. I haven’t been
in romantic relationships with ILEs but have had many friends of this
type. My relation to male ILEs is like to brothers. Strangely enough,
even though we are both “logical” types, I feel much warmth towards them
and to me they appear to be very emotional people. There is one but: for
all its ease and pleasantness, mirror communication is absolutely
unproductive for life together - it does not give any practical results.
The topics that people of mirror types discuss, especially LIIs and
ILEs, are typically far from actual life. They are a type of
intellectual games and a joint search for the truth and essence of
being. In any case, this has been true in my experience. Such dialogues
are seldom allowed to turn into concrete situations. No one will cover
your “weak spots” and you’ll have to solve your problems on your own.
But in return there will always be a feeling of “one’s own”, a close
one, the one to whom you can go and “thaw out your soul” after external
problems.
ESI-SEE
¶
Ivan (ILE):
ESIs are more persistent than ILIs. SEEs are oriented at
amoeba-like ILI, while ESIs - at the uncatchable LIE. They are like a
trap. They first slowly lure you with a sweet smile, and you don’t even
notice how she’s in your home, in your shirt, drinking your tea and
ordering you around. Because it’s no longer your home - but a house of
Dreiser. At first, from ESI’s persistence SEE’s sense of self-esteem
skyrockets - after all, he is being sought, fought for - he feels like a
god. He will remember this and talk about it for years. Over time, the
ESI sits on his shoulders, as happens with any person, and starts to
pick and saw at his brain (“leech” is a more suitable nickname than
“guardian”). Here’s the difference. An ILE immediately feels when an ESI
start to blame, subjugate, and oppress them. ILEs love their freedom to
the extreme, which in many cases saves them. While the SEE doesn’t
protest - and the god of the household god becomes the household slave.
This is when the fairy-tale ends for them. SEEs actually don’t have high
willpower - generally, these are the carriers of high emotion, high
physique, and low logic. My SEE father has for years boasted how he is
going to quit smoking - he couldn’t quit himself. It wasn’t until my ESI
mother quit and forbid him to smoke that he finally quit, too. Willpower
- zero. He started smoking in the army “for the company” and quit
smoking “for the company”, but not will it himself.
Related discussions
¶
Mirror relations discussions on PerC
Mirror relations discussions on 16t
Mirror relations discussions on Typoc
Mirror relations discussions on Reddit
Intertype Relations by Stratievskaya