2010-08-20 NSFRI - Plato - Republic (618b-618e) - The Pathologos and The Myth of Er
Channel: Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society
Date: 2018-03-10

2010-08-20 NSFRI - Plato - Republic (618b-618e) - The Pathologos and The Myth of Er
Dialogue(s): republic;philosophical-midwifery Chapters: book10 Sections: 618b-618e Synopsis: Pierre asks us each to list those activities in the NS we consider the most significant to us personally. This leads into our discussing the similarities between the lots-and-models process of choosing the next life (described at the end of Plato's Republic, in the "Myth of Er") and the pathologos/transmission-scene process of this life (which Pierre discovered and which he describes in his own books).  Pierre holds that Homer's works contain the possibility of change/growth in a way that Plato's do not, but this is not explored further. Notes: Pierre opens with the following question: As you reflect on our past history of Friday nights, conferences, talks, etc., can you say what you would judge as most significant to you personally? 17:00 pierre edits the question to "..what would you judge is the most significant TASK for YOU contemplate, study, and discuss?" sothat given everything we've done, you would conclude, "THIS is the way we ought to go.." What does thomas taylor mean by "theology"? The RHS of the board was unfortunately not zoomed in on, but I think it says: Can the Myth of Er run parallel to the pathologos transmission x x the 3 daughters of Necessity have their parallel in an imitative fashion (?) 26:00 Juan asks PG to go into what he has written on the RHS of the board: Could we take the myth of Er, and see if there are parallels in the way in which we come to our own conflicts and the roots of our conflict as we express it through the pathologos and the pathologos transmission scene? 27:55 PG reviews the myth of Er [(The Myth of Er from the end of (Book 10 of) the Republic. The full myth consumes much more than read here, i.e., 614b-621b. But the focus (below) will be on the section Pierre reads from 618b-618e.) -JS] 29:50 Pierre briefly reviews the pathologos and its transmission scene (see his book (with R. Uliana), "Philosophical Midwifery" -- information at bottom of this section) 31:10 parallels between these two, "in an immitative, secondary fashion" Myth of Er, and choosing incarnations: The 1st lock-in. Pathologos is the 2nd lock-down Life: the struggle between the two. The role of the philosopher! Goal: To stay within the incarnation model and learn how to deal with the pathologos. 34:40 Is there a range of conclusions that could have been made that is consistent with the transmission, yet each different? does this argue for a prior way to interpret the transmission scene (to reach that particular conclusion that the person reached)? if so, then there must be a way of interpreting that the person brought into the transmission scene, so that they can then come to the particular decision they made that shaped their individual lives. If so, then is the lot in the myth like the interpretive model, and is the model like the pathologos? Therefore, if so, what we were doing at Esalen: What has been the influence, not just of the pathologos, but (of) that interpretive structure that you brought with you that determined the particular form of the pathologos and what role is that playing, and has played in your life, both before and after the transmission of the pathologos? If so, then then there are two levels of the problem. And there are two levels in the myth of Er. Are some midwife talks able to hit both? Some talks only one and not the other? And does that make a difference? Barbara: It seems the interpretive model is more universal and deeper in scope. 41:40 In Plato's Republic, you have to go back into that key paragraph, and see to what extent he is going to be dealing with these two levels, and any other influences which occur (which occur of course in the Republic, because he has those four models of pathologos transmission [without using the word, "pathologos"], etc.) But for Plato, it's fixed. There's no "out". And that makes the difference between Plato and Homer. 42:20 JulieP's question: Can a person choose a lot that is not the interpretive model? Could you ever be free? 43:39 PG reads from the Republic,about stephanus 618, book 10 (Rouse): There indeed, my dear Glaucon, is the whole danger for man. Therefore we must take most care that each one of us shall disregard all studies, except this one study, and in this he shall be both seeker and student, to see if he shall be able to learn and discover in any place one who shall give him the ability and intelligence to know a good life from a bad and to choose always and everywhere the best that the conditions allow.. So it rests upon this phrase, "..shall give him the ability and the intelligence to know." And therefore, what can be changed within the myth of Er, and within this paragraph. The solution is that whatever choice you make, you have to "keep your gaze fixed all the while on the nature of the soul. And considering both, that the worse and the b