1985-04-23 NSFRI - Plato - Theaetetus - 142a-151e - Structure as a Delayed Puzzle: Three Introducti
Channel: Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society
Date: 2018-04-03

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 1985-04-23 NSFRI - Plato - Theaetetus - 142a-151e - Structure as a Delayed Puzzle: Three Introductions

{ 19850423NSFRI }

 Dialogue(s): theaetetus Sections: 142a-151e"Theaetetus Session 1" from Bill's tapesNotes:Much better camera work (than session 2)! Reading done is from 142a to 151 but they skip over 147-151. Pierre begins by saying there are three introductions and that the reader will be introduced to a puzzle which will be put off until later. The dialogue is read from the beginning and the divisions for the 3 intros are at 143, 145e and 151e.Socrates will dialogue with the student most praised, Theatetus, and the issue - what knowledge is. (Socrates shows he can recognize the qualities of the son from knowing the father.... already functioning as a midwife). And, as we saw in the first meeting on 4-30-1985, Socrates and Theatetus might both be philosophically pregnant since Socrates is not barren (he does not say he is puzzled about wisdom, though).  He cannot grasp by himself what knowledge is. And Theatetus believes wisdom and knowledge to be the same thing but also sees he cannot answer about knowledge in the way he can about mathematics (which he sees is an example of a knowledge), so is ready for Socrates' questioning to see if they can discover what knowledge is.  Mathematical demonstration - a puzzle emerges and furnishes the structure for the dialogue. (Page 25 in the Loeb).The problem emerges at 145e - what knowledge really is. 147b - Barbara Stecker and Ken King provide info on the Greek - of "set in motion together" to proceed, to observe ..... not aware of knowledge of anything if he doesn't know what knowledge is?? Knowledge of shoes conveys nothing to him if he has no idea of knowledge.... has not encountered knowledge of shoes if he does not know knowledge. A good, spirited discussion takes place about how one can proceed in general when you are in doubt about whether two things are the same or different. Do you want a wise man or one with a knowledge to be your pharmacist? What does the wise man  have that the one with knowledge may not have? Analogy in the midwifery section of the introduction is discussed. Can we find examples in the dialogue of each element of philosophical midwifery mentioned as elements of physical midwifery - analogous not literal. Does Socrates match the six points behind made around stephanus 148. The introduction may best be understood after getting to the end, says Pierre, as he challenges the students to list what philosophical midwifery is like and then find examples of these elements in the dialogue's introduction. (There was mention of a workshop during which the unread section of the intro was discussed but it does not appear to have been recorded). (Wisdom will be discussed in what Socrates calls  the interlude/digression).Last ten minutes are a discussion about a future plan to meet at the SYDA center in Los Angeles (www.siddhayoga.org).More info: http://noeticsociety.org[Thanks to BillD for videotaping and to JulieP for title, Stephanus #s, and above notes.]