STAN BERNARD INTERVIEWS MALCOLM X ON (FEB 18 1965).
Channel: Thuon Jambaka Nyakwar Anuro.
Date: 2016-12-05

Stan Bernard: And what is the Black Muslim movement? Is it a bona fide religion or just a terror organization? Tonight on “Stan Bernard: Contact” we’re going to have a look at the Muslims and the Black nationalists in general. And my guests tonight: Malcolm X, once the number-two man in the Black Muslims, now broken with Elijah Muhammad; he says he’s a marked man and that a number of attempts have been made on his life. And also in the studio, or we hope very shortly, Aubrey Barnett. There’s been some difficulty tonight, just before air time, and Aubrey may join us and he may not. He’s also split from the organization, and he’s written an article in this week’s Saturday Evening Post labeled simply “The Black Muslims Are a Fraud.” And here is Aubrey Barnett now. And my third guest tonight, Gordon Hall, an expert on extremist organizations. Aubrey Barnett, in your article you call the Black Muslims a fraud. Now does this just apply to the mosque’s methods of raising money or what? Do you think it’s a religious fraud as well?

Aubrey Barnett: I think the entire Black Muslim movement is a fraud. And Webster’s Dictionary defines a fraud as deceit, trickery, or a trick. The Black Muslims have deceived the public. They’ve used trickery on trying to attract the Negroes and they have outright tricked the poor Black Muslim members. That’s why I say they are a fraud. 

Bernard: Now, okay, they’ve tricked them. Now this is in terms of the religion itself as well as the money raising?

Barnette: Well, as far as the religion of Islam is concerned, I might say right here that any similarity between the Black Muslims and the true religion of Islam is purely coincidental.

Bernard: Malcolm X, I said at the outset that you were once the number-two man. I think I can rightfully say that, easily you were certainly as well known as, almost as well known, or as well known as Elijah Muhammad.

Malcolm X: But I never was the number-two man.

Bernard: You never were the number-two man.

Malcolm X: The press said I was the number-two man, but there were others ahead of me.

Bernard: How do you feel about this comment from Aubrey Barnette?

Malcolm X: What he’s saying is true, especially about the first, especially about the religion. The religion of Islam itself is a religion that is based upon brotherhood and a religion in which the persons who believe in it in no way judge a man by the color of his skin. The yardstick of measurement in Islam is one’s deeds, one’s conscious behavior. And the yardstick of measurement that was used by Elijah Muhammad was based upon the color of the skin.

Bernard: Malcolm, it wasn’t too long ago that you were preaching separation, Black supremacy, you were...or separation at any rate; if not Black supremacy, it sounded like Black supremacy to a lot of people. How do you equate that now with what you’re saying today?

Malcolm X: There’s not one person who is a Muslim who believes in Elijah Muhammad today who believes in him more strongly than I did. When I was with him I believed in him 100 percent. And it was my strong belief in him that made me go along with everything he taught. And I think if you check back on my representation of him while I was with him, I represented him 100 percent.

Bernard: What is your status now, Malcolm?

Malcolm X: How do you mean?

Bernard: Right now. Have you broken...

Malcolm X: I’m a Muslim. When I...you must understand that the Black Muslim movement, although it claimed to be a religious movement, based upon Islam, it was never acceptable to the orthodox Muslim world. Although at the same time it attracted the most militant, the most dissatisfied of the Black community into it. And by them getting into it and the movement itself not having a real action program, it comprised a number of persons who were extremely young and militant but who could not...and who were activists by nature but who couldn’t participate in things. So the inactivity of the movement caused a great deal of dissatisfaction until finally dissension broke in and division, and those of us who left regrouped into a Muslim movement based upon orthodox Islam.

Bernard: So now that you’ve broken away, let me ask you a question and this calls for numbers. You’re no longer a member. Are you in a membership fight now with Elijah Muhammad?

Malcolm X: No, no, I have never at any time involved myself in a membership fight with Elijah Muhammad. In fact, if you go back to the release that I made public at the time of my official departure, I pointed out that I was in no way trying to take away the followers of Elijah Muhammad, but that I myself was going to become a Muslim, but would work among the 22 million non-Muslim Negroes and try to establish some kind of program that would be beneficial to the Black American, period.

Bernard: There were a lot of numbers that were thrown around some time ago. I guess it was two years ago or so. The numbers said