A non-hierarchical imaginary of governance & emerging ecologies of organisation with Sarah Houseman
Channel: Edge Dwellers Café with Ben Habib
Date: 2022-11-14

In this episode of the Edge Dwellers Cafe Podcast, I’m joined in this spirit of Utopia-inspired critical bewilderment by Sarah Houseman to talk about her PhD research into non-hierarchical organisations. We discuss the many functional problems that arise in hierarchical organisations, from power relationships to functional organisational stupidity and leadership cults. We also explore non-hierarchy and decentralisation as alternative organisational structures, along with the challenges faced by organisations transitioning from hierarchical to horizontal structures.

Original episode link via PodBean: https://edgedwellerscafe.podbean.com/e/sarah-houseman/

00:00:00  Introduction.
00:03:55  Sarah's professional background in business and not-for-profit sector.
00:06:59  The limits of Education for Sustainability.
00:10:43  A career spent lamenting the problems of hierarchy in organisations.
00:12:50  Lineage of non-hierarchical organisational governance ideas from the 1960s social justice movements.
00:16:14  Non-hierarchy does not mean no structure.
00:17:12  Case study organisations from Sarah's research: Friends of the Earth (Melbourne), 
00:21:31  Influences from recent scholarship on decentralised organisations.
00:23:21  Compatibility of online work with decentralisation.
00:24:05  Power relationships and the transition from hierarchical to horizontal organisation.
00:30:59  Sarah and Ben examine intersectional power relations in their relationship.
00:34:19  Non-hierarchical governance is based on consent.
00:37:39  The toll of psychological de-coupling and the unlearning of hierarchical roles.
00:42:18  Consent vs agreement in non-hierarchical decision-making.
00:45:10  Power, fear and functional stupidity in hierarchical organisations.
00:46:59  Anthropocene-appropriate decision-making and governance.
00:50:38  Problematising the archetype of the 'leader'.
00:54:19  Bringing ecological systems thinking and reflexivity to organisations.
00:56:56  Inter-generational shift in reflexive thinking about hierarchy.
01:00:39  Static relations of power vs dynamic relationships of care.
01:04:23  Illustrating power dynamics and organisational ecologies through drawing.
01:07:09  Creative methodologies and other ways of knowing using the Tarot.
01:10:29  The Tarot as a symbolic interpretive device for unlocking the emotional experience of working in an organisation.
01:15:51  Archetype of the 'circle' as organisational form.
01:19:21  Reflecting on the founder's dilemma in Sarah's case study organisations and in Ben's experience in the permaculture movement.
01:25:17  Organisational life cycles and generational change.
01:27:29  Balancing need for escape and healing vs need for accountability.
01:31:42  Un-learning coercion.
01:33:49  The invisible labour of women in organisations.
01:35:58  Rotation of responsibilities.
01:38:03  Conclusion.