1985-03-15 NSFRI - Plato - Hipparchus - Proofs of wisdom or something else?
Channel: Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society
Date: 09/03/2018

This material is posted under a Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 4.0 International license. 
See https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/.
 Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society -- 1985-03-15 NSFRI - Plato - Hipparchus - Proofs of wisdom or something else?
Dialogue(s): hipparchus Sections: 225a-232c Boardwork by Pierre Grimes starts us off with a puzzle as he spells the name of the dialogue: "Hyparchus - Session 1 "  (might be PG humour to misspell the word so it looks more like 'hypocrite') There is a fairly long discussion  before any reading which assumed everyone had read the dialogue. Pierre asks: What if a lover of gain is no different than the lover of the good!? Does that change your perception of him? Yes, It makes him able to be midwifed by you because you no longer see him as worse? But different! Various questions PG poses... "Why did he (Plato) write it? How does it fit? Why is this particularly midwifery? Gain by losing something? If someone is a lover of gain, why does that compromise the platonic midwifery? How do these two statements below differ in function?" Pierre presents this comparison: All men love (and desire) the good VS some men are lovers of gain. Out loud reading starts on 228b to describe Hipparchus after the above discussion. 1st level - reaction to what was read:  How can u think little of a person and still think they are wise? 2nd level - reflective Pierre discusses the Royal Family and what is put forth as 'Proofs of wisdom'. These include: Using the beautiful words! Using pretty words like speech writers do Choosing someone who is bought & paid for Pay Fees and gifts Compelling them to pray - (Buying love! says Ken King) - to get subjects of highest quality!! To educate them so HE would have them - he wants them to repeat these phrases (Like Hitler, says Ken!) When he is being admired - for what others are doing, he keeps it going!! Imposing the same on the countryside - Hermes figures He puts other's quotes on statues and claims them as his own?? Or replaces them with his quotes? Just do it with "just intent" - don't really have to be just!!! Ok to deceive anyone but a friend The above reading is done without giving stephanus numbers - everyone appears to follow seamlessly!! Topics or Questions covered: Loss & Gain - Love of Gain Wisdom or Tryanny Education Can you call yourself an educator if you have only educated one person? After he is disqualified from original teachers, after he takes allegiance to the tyrant, he despises his first teacher? Wants Universal admiration -love of the many Destroying all other lovers - nothing of prior understanding - no rivals and he dies as a rival. Discrepancies or Issues: assumes you have read the dialogue - and would be helpful to know midwifery Very few stephanus numbers given - page 289 is mentioned and I see 225a to 232c in Perseus - my copies are in storage. Further reflections: Isn't he and everyone just another guy trying to do what they think is best! Since All men desire the good! Pierre gets very quiet at 1:05 - hitler references again - What do you have to do if someone holds the position of the guy? Not hate - understand him! Understand ignorance! Where did he get that model?!! 1985!! Should be studying ignorance!! How can we still be wondering how to deal with tyranny  - "won't figure it out until heads roll!" -pg Where is the problem? See the words - and the terms used to describe function!! Hell with the guy, go for the function Seeking Admiration (Thanks to Bill Duncan for videotaping, and to JulieP for title, stephanus numbers, and above notes!) More info: http://noeticsociety.org