2012-10-19 NSFRI - Homer - Iliad (Book 2) - Integrity, the Map, the Dream, and the Text
Channel: Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society
Date: 30/04/2018

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 2012-10-19 NSFRI - Homer - Iliad (Book 2) - Integrity, the Map, the Dream, and the Text

{ 20121019NSFRI }

 Dialogue(s): iliadBook 2, Lines 341-387 and Lines 422 - 433Original title: Geography and The Dream sent by Zeus to AgamemnonNotesOPENING QUESTION:What’s at stake? The more integrity you can find in the text, it builds you see. And therefore, any questions we have about it that challenge the integrity of the text will sap our interest when it gets into more profound states.  So, we want to raise all the questions.QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MAP:(The map locates all the ships mentioned in Book 2 and identifies all the cities where the troops came who ended up in the war, both on the side of the Trojans and on the side of the Akhaians. Please see the link below to the map, under 'Other Resources'.)3:20 - Could there be an error in the map that was passed around…Why did Homer list with such care all of the data [about the ships]?4:40 - If you look at it [the map of the catalog of ships], can you construct a theory based upon how Homer presents the men, the ships, and the cities that the men come from in a map?QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DREAM:15:30 - Who wants to read a story where the Gods are presented and they have no integrity, especially the big guy, right?  Did Zeus deliberately deceive man, a particular man, that brought about this tragic war? Or, one of the forces that brought about the war?  What name are we going to give Zeus?22:50 - Where’s the deception [in the dream]?47:29 - This is the mystery of the dream:  Where does it come from? Where does the original idea come from? Would you agree that…everybody has difficulty in accurately recording a dream?48:40 - Does Agamemnon act out the dream, the content of the dream, the advice of the dream?  Does he follow the dream?  Does he then get into battle?50:51 - If he [Agamemnon] didn’t take the advice , literally, didn’t act on it, whose problem is it?  Is it Zeus’ problem?  If he [Agamemnon] had literally acted out the advice, would he have been successful?BACK TO THE MAP:0:55:52 - Suppose we know that a couple of the Greeks troops are highly distinguished in battle?  Could it be because of the particular gods playing an active role?  Then is it possible that there are a couple of highly regarded equal forces, equal power, equal mobility, equal strength engaging with one another with a particular god assigned to each playing itself out?     Therefore, how is one side going to win over the other? And what is the role of the gods?1:08:44 - What did you find in Book 3?  What kind of people are they [the Akhaians]? Are they willing to adapt to circumstances that come up and keep that in their backpocket as they go?  Or, are they believers and is the whole book nothing other than a blueprint laid out by Zeus and they’re going to march to a conclusion?What kind of work is this?1:13:04 - What does it take to read this guy [Homer]?For next time:See every seer, every prophecy, every holy man.  Note which side he’s on.  Note everytime somebody makes a prediction. See how they understand what’s going on.  Rank the seers, prophecy, and holy men.Technical IssuesNone.Other ResourcesMap showing both Akhaians and Trojan forces and what cities they come fromOnline text of Homer's Iliad:Richard Lattimore translation with the Greek textGreek only text of the IliadRobert Fitzgerald translation[Thanks to Marty and Yoni for videotaping and editing/production, and to StefanR and DarleneA for titles and cataloguing info.]More info: http://noeticsociety.org and our archive, the Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society collection here on archive.org.