2012-11-16 NSFRI - Homer - Iliad (Books 7 & 8) - Looking for Evidence of Zeus' Presence
Channel: Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society
Date: 31/07/2018

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 2012-11-16 NSFRI - Homer - Iliad (Books 7 & 8) - Looking for Evidence of Zeus' Presence

{ 20121116NSFRI }

 Dialogue(s): iliad Chapters: book07;book08The Iliad:  11.16.2012 Video_Books 7 and 8Original Title: Judging on How the Athenians and the Trojans Relate to Their GodsReading:  Book 7:  Lines 200 and on; Book 8: Lines 1 and on, 403-429, 449-460, 481-505SynopsisPierre leads us through a quick outline of Books 7 and 8, and asks us the following questions.THE OPENING QUESTION:How can we judge the way, the circumstances, and purpose, the Achaians and Trojans relate to their Gods?  Is this a worthwhile question?BOOK 7:Apart from the heroes and great figures, how do the soldiers – they’re in the battle, both sides – how do they relate to their Gods?  And, is that a significant issue?Do they (the soldiers) think, literally, that these Gods are on their side? How do they (Hector, Diomedes, etc.) relate to the Gods?What kinds of circumstances exist where people are going to look for evidence of their God being present? And, what is it about those circumstances?When do they (the major figures) see evidence there might be a God present?The issue we want to look at is:  In what way can you say these people are religious? Using the word religion in a higher sense.So, what kind of religion is this? BOOK 8:Let me put it another way:  What’s interesting about Book 8? The same issue.  On the level of the Gods, how do they relate to one another? What kinds of states of mind can we judge? When do they come together? Over what kinds of issues? In what way? In what circumstances?The Greeks are in the middle of a battle.  How do they look and say, “Now there’s the presence of Zeus“?  What are they looking at (when) saying, “Oh, Zeus.“  “Oh, Hera.“  “There’s Athena.“ “Oh, there’s Ares.“  Especially, Zeus.  What kind of circumstances do they look for? How do they judge it? What effect does it have?Do the Gods know what Zeus is after in Book 8? Does he (Zeus) keep a secret? They all know about Zeus‘ promise to Thetis, and they take sides.What difference does it make if you’re reading a so-called religious war and the big cheese says, ‘All the rest of you Gods and Goddesses, don’t mess with human affairs.  End it!‘  Is this a religious or non-religious work?Through this, does Zeus grow?  Does he mature?  What’s the origin of The Iliad?  Why does Zeus go along Thetis?What do you think would happen to people, living at that time knowing Homer? As they go into subsequent battles, struggles in their culture --- about their beliefs of how the Gods, may or may not help them?   Could there be a Joan of Arc? St. Michael? Could there be a religious warrior?Why does he (Homer) need the 9th book?For Next Time:Technical Issues:A/C hum until 0:03:50.There’s a jump cut from 38:19-38:20.Other ResourcesMap showing both Akhaians and Trojan forces and what cities they come fromOnline text of Homer's Iliad:Richard Lattimore translation with the Greek textGreek only text of the IliadRobert Fitzgerald translationCredits[Thanks to Marty and Yoni for videotaping and editing/production, to StefanR for alternate title and cataloguing info, and to DarleneA for title and above notes.]More InfoPierre Grimes and Philosophical MidwiferyThe Noetic SocietyThe Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society collection here on archive.org.