Interview with Kristian Andersen, Eddie Holmes & Michael Worobey: The Lab Leak & Covid Origins
Channel: Decoding the Gurus
Date: 2023-03-22

The question of the SARS-CoV-2 origin: whether it was a zoonotic spillover or an engineered virus that escaped from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, is a controversial topic. Interestingly, while scientists with specific domain expertise seem to be building a consensus towards the former, public opinion appears to be trending towards the latter. This divergence between expert and popular opinion has been helped along by frothy discourse in mainstream and social media. 

Recently, Sam Harris hosted on his Making Sense podcast the molecular biologist Alina Chan and science writer Matt Ridley, the authors of "Viral: The Search for the Origin of COVID-19". They contended that (a) experts in the area are refusing to engage with and unable to answer the arguments they presented in favour of the lab leak, and (b) strongly implied that there is a conspiracy of silence among virologists, not just in China but internationally, to suppress the lab leak hypothesis.

So we set out to interview three virologists who are amply qualified to address these topics, in terms of both the current evidence and whether they are involved in a conspiracy of silence.

Kristian Andersen is a Professor in the Department of Immunology and Microbiology at Scripps Research. He focuses on the relationship between host and pathogen, using sequencing, fieldwork, experimentation, and computational biology methods. He has spearheaded large international collaborations investigating the emergence, spread and evolution of deadly pathogens, including SARS-CoV-2, Zika virus, Ebola virus, West Nile virus, and Lassa virus.

Edward "Eddie" Holmes, is an NHMRC Leadership Fellow & Professor of Virology at the Faculty of Medicine and Health at Sydney University, a member of the Sydney Institute for Infectious Diseases, a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Science and a Fellow of The Royal Society. He is known for his work on the evolution and emergence of infectious diseases, particularly the mechanisms by which RNA viruses jump species boundaries to emerge in humans and other animals. He has studied the emergence and spread of such pathogens as SARS-CoV-2, influenza virus, dengue virus, HIV, hepatitis C virus, myxoma virus, RHDV and Yersinia pestis.

Michael Worobey, is the head of the department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Arizona. His work focuses on the genomes of viruses, using molecular and computational biology, to understand the origins, emergence and control of pandemics. Recently, his interdisciplinary work on SARS-CoV-2 has shed light on how and when the virus originated and ignited the COVID-19 pandemic in China and how SARS-CoV-2 emerged and took hold in North America and Europe.

*Note: The interview was recorded prior to recent reports on new metagenomic data from the market, which should in any case be considered alongside all the other evidence discussed in this interview.

For other relevant discussions see: 

Sam Harris Making Sense 311 - DID SARS-COV-2 ESCAPE FROM A LAB?: https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/311-did-sars-co-v-2-escape-from-a-lab
Bad Boy of Science YouTube Channel: Is The COVID Lab Leak Hypothesis Dead? w Kristian Andersen, Mike Worobey & Philipp Markolin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIuY0rZ3KjI
Good article from Philipp Markolin on 'The manipulation playbook of anti-science actors': https://protagonistfuture.substack.com/p/denounce-deny-deceive
Stuart Ritchie's article for the i: "Stop blindly believing or dismissing the Covid lab-leak theory – focus on the evidence" (see discourse surfing): https://inews.co.uk/news/covid-lab-leak-theory-blindly-believing-dismissing-focus-evidence-2181006
Wall Street Journal: Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19 Pandemic, Energy Department Now Says: https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a
Our previous episode discussing the Lab Leak and other Covid controversies with Stuart Neil
Relevant Research Papers & Letters: https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/special-episode-interview-with-stuart-neil-on-sars-cov-2

Relevant Articles
Calisher, C., et al. (2020). Statement in support of the scientists, public health professionals, and medical professionals of China combatting COVID-19. The Lancet, 395(10226), e42-e43.
Andersen KG, Rambaut A, Lipkin WI, Holmes EC, Garry RF. The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2. Nat Med. 2020 Apr;26(4):450-452.
Bloom, J. D., et al. (2021). Investigate the origins of COVID-19. Science, 372(6543), 694-694.
Holmes, E. C., et al. (2021). The origins of SARS-CoV-2: A critical review. Cell, 184(19), 4848-4856.
Worobey, M., et al. (2022). The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic. Science, 377(6609), 951-959.