Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty Land Warrant Application File W. 19941, for William Orr, New York

SERVICE
NUMBER
New York
Orr, William Hopey
W 19941
CONTENTS

Letter to P. G. at Albany & L. M. Drury June 22 d 1849
4689
New York. Albany.
Sophy Carr, dec d widow of William who died on the in 1822 of Orleans Co in the State of New York who was a Sergeant in the regiment commanded by Captain Wendell of the regiment commanded by Colonel in the New York line of troops for 2 years
Inscribed on the Roll of Albany at the rate of 120 Dollars ~ Cents per annum, to commence on the fifth day of March, 1831. Ending Dec. January 1844
Certificate of Pension issued the 23 d day of February 1849 and sent to Hon M. Hunt. Sec of War
Arrears to the 4 th of Semi-annual allowance ending
Payable to Sidney Carr, William Carr, James Carr, Aaron Carr, John Carr { Revolutionary Claim, & Polly Ward and her { Act July 4, 1836, surviving children { Section the 3 d
Recorded by _____ Clerk, Book _____ Vol. 1 Page 171

State of New York County of Orleans } ss
On this 30 th day of September eighteen hundred & forty seven personally appeared in open court James Orr of the town of Murray in said County aged fifty seven years who being first duly sworn doth on his oath make the following declaration in order to obtain the amount due to the heirs of Hasty Orr, widow of William Orr, deceased under the act of 14 th July 1836.
This declarant states that he is the son of William Orr, who was a soldier in the war of the revolu- -tion - that the said William Orr was a native of the town of North East, Dutchess County & state of New York - that he entered the service of the United States in said war (as this declarant has understood from his father the said William Orr) as a soldier in the New York Line to serve during the war - that he was a sergeant during a portion of the time he was in service, and that for his services in said war he drew (to this declarant's knowledge) six hundred acres of bounty land located in the County of Cayuga in said state -
This declarant further states that

he has heard his said father the said William Orr say that he was employed by order of General Washington during a portion of the time he was in service (with a Brother of his named Hugh Orr) in casting cannon for the use of the American Army at a place near the Hudson River called Livingston Furnace - but how long his said father was employed in this capacity, this declarant is unable to say - that his said father was a Blacksmith by occupation that he assisted in making the chain across the Hudson River - This declarant states that he has seen & read the annexed certificate issued from the Office of the Secretary of the State of New York & signed by Arch d Campbell - and this declarant states that he believes & has no doubt that the person therein mentioned was his father the said William Orr -
This declarant further states that his said father was married to this declarants said mother before the close of his service in said war - as this declarant has heard his said mother say, by a minister named Elder Bradner - that the marriage took place on the second day of July August - but in what year this declarant is unable to say -
This declarant further states

that the annexed is a true copy as made by this declarant some twelve or fifteen years since - of the original family Record kept by his said father & mother - that it contains a true statement as this declarant believes of the time of the birth of this declarant's said father & mother & of their children - that the two names first mentioned in said record are this declarant's said parents - & the other names are those of the children of his said father & mother -
This declarant states that he believes that the original record from which the annexed transcript was taken is still in existence, but of that he is not positive -
This declarant further states that his father the said William Orr died on the _____ day of _____ in the year eighteen hundred and twenty _____. - that this declarant's mother the said Mary Orr died on the twentieth (20 th ) day of January in the year eighteen hundred and forty four (1844) - that after the death of this declarant's said father, his said mother did not again inter- -marry - that this declarant's said father & mother left six children surviving them, whose names

are Gideon Orr. William Orr. James Orr Aaron Orr. John Orr and Polly Ward. And further this declarant saith not.
I worn & subscribed } to the day & year first } above written. -.
Before me. }
(Signed) H. K. Cuatip County Judge. }
State of New York,
County of Orleans ss I
Clerk
of said County do hereby certify that at a County Court - the same being a court of record - held in & for said County on the 30 th day of September 1847 - it was duly proved by the exhibition of the testimony satisfactory to said Court. that William Orr died on the                     day of                     in the year eighteen hundred and                     that his widow Hasty Orr died on the twentieth (20 th ) day of January eighteen hundred & forty four (1844) - & that the said William & Hasty Orr left six children surviving them whose names are Gideon Orr William Orr. James Orr Aaron Orr. John Orr & Polly Ward. In testimony whereof
I have hereunto set my hand & seal of said county this 30 th day of September 1847 -

Copy Certificate from Sec. of State
State of New York Secretary's Office }
I certify that it appears that William on the 26 th day of December 1776 William Orr enlisted as a soldier in the first New York Regt. Capt. Wendell's Company to serve during the war - Pr. May 1778. Sergt. June 1780. Pr. July 1782 - Mustered to the close of the war as appears by the Military Register in this office. Albany Sept 25. 1847.
Arch d Campbell. Dep Sec. of State
Copy Family Record.
W m Orr but was born Jany 25. 175-4 Gideon Orr was born 28. May 1778 W m Orr Junt was born April 11. 1782 James Orr. was born Oct. 12 1790. &c.
Robert Orr. was born Jany. 177 1777 & died aged 2 years 3 months 11 days.

Bought of ten Brook Mires for 0 10 6 January
William Orr Generboom the 1754
Gideon Orr born may the 1779
William Orr born June 11, 1781
James Orr born January 17 1790
Anna Orr born may 6 1792
Abigail Orr born March 12 1794
John Orr born October 6 1795
Robert Orr born January 17 1797
Died aged 3 year, month 11 days
Harriet Orr Born August the 11 th 1804
Emily Orr born April the third 1806

5
Miss Mary
Washington

Valley Jan'y 3 d 1848
Dear Sir - I have just returned home from a visit to my Friends and therefore the delay to answer your letter bearing date Jan y 21 st /47. as it respects my Father being a Soldier in the Artillery. I have no doubt. I recollect of hearing my Father ask Mr Daniel Lamb a neighbor of ours in Dutches Co Northeast Town what relation he was to Col. Lamb. Mr Lamb told what a kin they were. my Father told how long he served under Col. Lamb the length of time I have forgotten. I also recollect of hearing him tell Isbrand Sandford of serving in the Artillery under Col. Lamb the length of time or what Regiment I can not be so clear about Isbrand Sandford was a neighbor and worked for my Father considerably and asked many questions about the war. my Father would answer all his Enquiries and I regret that my memory is not better on the subject for I have heard him give quite a history of his Services - in regard to Mr Franklin I will say a few words - Mr Elisha Franklin told me his Grand Father was a regular Soldier and served through the war I thought it to be a good case as I stated to you I have since talked with the old man he tells me he don't know whether his Father was a Militia man or a regular but he commanded a company and was in one or two Battles got badly wounded had the ball cut out of his Shoulder. Served considerable in the war did not marry the widow Denison as stated to me by Elisha for more correct information I refer you to Henry Franklin in the that keeps the Franklin house at Geneva his Mother is a claimant they can furnish information as I am told I have not heard from my cousins and I most wonder at it I have wrote again on the subject and requested the post Master General to the letter their place of address is Dover Fort Delaware Co there is two post offices in that town Doverport & Doverport center they have lived there some fifty years I think they will get my letters soon

I have given them your place of address and a Recommend that will do you no hurt - I think they have never got a pension or Watson Orr would have mentioned it in his letters to me, the Families are very familiar with each others affairs or have been up to the time that Watson Orr moved away two years ago last June I will give you their names so that you can write to them if you think proper - Corbit - Calvin & Luther Orr I should think Calvin the most proper person to commu- nicate with, he used to flatter in his young days - Corbit Orr I should think could give quite a history of his Father's services he must be 75 years of age or over - in reference to what the com- missioner in the pension office says about there being no con- tinental soldiers employed in the family there, may be correct so far as it con- cerns the private contract with Col. Hobart - but you recollect that it afterwards went into the hands or under the superinten- dance of Col. Hugh Orr - who must have been a continen- tal soldier - which fact seems to show that the private contract with Col. Hobart had been rescinded - from what I have often heard my Mother say in reference to my Father's & uncle's inge- nuity and skill as mechanics, the reason is very plain to me why they were employed in that business - she has often said there was no such man in all the country - it was not very common for my Father to enter into conversation of his own account however he sometimes wrote, I recollect of hearing him tell Mr Sandford that he made or found a very stately carriage (I forget by what name the latter) the wife of an English officer rode in after the British Army surrendered or were made prisoners - I presume I have heard the remark made twenty times by different people that they never saw a man that would hammer an iron so smooth as uncle Bill Orr - you may think me bragging but uncle Green often told me there was no brag about my Father I don't suppose that Hugh Orr was ever appointed colonel

But for some reason that application was given him - he moved into Davenport shortly after the war, and was justice of the peace there over 30 years the country was an entire wilderness and was for many years after he moved there - I have no idea that he ever made any effort to get a pension and I some doubt whether he ever got his bounty land - my Father did not get his til some three years after the war, he had a letter informing him he had a certificate in the office for him
I instructed my cousins if they wrote you to inform you what old papers were in their possession of their fathers relating to the war - I think of no more - write when any thing occurs of interest in our case
Yours As Ever
James Orr
Mr L M Downy Esqr
I have had no opportunity of talking with my Brothers to know what they have heard my Father say about serving under Col Lamb. They are in Ohio - I will write them if you wish, would they not be willing to inform you at Washington if you desired it
J Orr

Canandaigua, N.Y. Aug. 3 rd 1848.
Dear Sir:
I send herewith the certificates of the creditability of B. & S. Salisbury, required by the letter of the Com d of Pensions to you - of July 11 th last.
The requisition is fully complied with in respect to B. Salisbury & as nearly so as could be in respect to Sidon Salisbury - He has died since Dec. last when his aff t was obtained.
I hope they will accept this testimony as sufficient proof of the marriage of W m & H sty Orr.
As respects the identity of the parties, I should think that if it is proven that the marriage of William Orr with H sty Salisbury took place in 1775 - no explanation or proof need be given to show that they were husband & wife in 1794 - the time when the deed of the bounty land was given by W m Orr, which deed is on file - B. & Sid Sidon Salisbury both testify to the fact that the husband of their sister H sty  W m Orr was a continental soldier serving all through the war - Their testimony is as explicit & positive on this point as on any other - B. Salisbury further testifies that W m Orr drew bounty land located in Ulysses, N.Y. and that he talked at one time of purchasing it of him - and visited the land himself - I would have the attention of the Com d of Pensions, directed to the signature of that original deed which is on file - It will be found that the name "William Orr" is precisely in the

Same hand writing as the entries upon the back of the old book cover which contain the date of the births of his children, with the exception of the two last entries which were made by W m Orr Jr. & are the dates of the birth of his own children -
This record was made by W m Orr himself.
The deed also describes W m Orr as a resident of North East. You will perceive that by the letter of the Court of Pensions of Dec. 30 th that he admits that the professed of the deed affords a strong presumption that he was the soldier to whom the land was assigned, but he makes that deed the pretext of a doubt as to H osy Orr being his wife then, because she did not sign it. If then the professed of the deed identifies W m Orr with the soldier of that name, and if it is proven that his marriage with H osy Salisbury took place 20 years previous, what further proof need be required even though she did not sign the deed.
The identity of the signature to the deed, and  with the entries of the date of the birth of his children is one strong circumstance - if not positive proof that H osy Orr was the wife of the soldier - The positive testimony of B. & S. Salisbury & of Priscilla Green that the husband of their sister H osy , was a Continental soldier & that neither were ever but once married is another proof that should be deemed sufficient. The fact permitted by the testimony of James Orr that his mother was not asked to sign the deed

and that his father was away from home when he sold the land coupled with the fact that but few of the wives of the revolutionary soldiers joined with their husband in the sale of the property, land ought to be sufficient to remove the presumption that against Mrs. H. Orr being the wife of William Orr raised by the omission of her name to the deed.
It would give much more weight to the testimony of James Orr if you will strongly endorse his credibility, as you will know you can with safety do.
It is a circumstance, worth mentioning, that when James Orr made his declaration in Sept last, neither he nor myself was aware of the existence of that deed - it was found among some old papers, in the possession of his sister Mrs. Ward which belonged to his mother. It was found & sent to me in Dec last. All the children have known as well as they could know any fact about their father, that he chose 600 acres of land which was located in Ullysses, N.Y.
James Orr said he did not know what connection that fact could have with the procuring a pension on account of his mother, until I told him.
The proof herewith sent is probably the last that can be furnished. If you can, and are willing to see the Commissioner of Pensions & present the considerations I have detailed above, I have reason to believe that your influence & exertion would be attended with success. I feel unwilling to ask of you any personal

attention for I know it is a tax upon your time and I have already imposed it too often & too heavily. But this is a matter of considerable importance and Mr Orr feels anxious that it should be successfully terminated, especially as the merit- -toeownership of the claim, or validity of it is so apparent.
I read the letter of James Orr of July 17 th - The remarks he makes about the requisition of the Court of Pensions, of some explanation of the cause of Mrs Orr withholding her signature to the deed, are, I think very sensible.
Yours very truly,
L. M. Drury -
Hon E. B. Holmes - Washington - D.C.
joined their husbands in conveyances. This ought to remove the presumption against the deed of conveyance. P.S. Auburn, Aug. 8 th Since writing the above I have been to the clerk's office in this place & procured the clerk's certificate of the sale of W m Orr of his bounty land to John Richardson, and you will see by his afft below the conveyance that he speaks of having before sold the land to Thos Sears, of Fredricktown. The deed on file in the Pension Office is this deed  to Sears deed, and it is now explained how this deed happened to be among Orr's papers. This it seems is conclusive proof of identity. Further there is in the clerk's office here the original discharge of W m Orr signed by Gen. Washington and on the back of it an assignment of it by W m Orr to the purchaser of his bounty land. The hand writing is identically with that of the family record - I could swear without hesitation that the two must have been written by the same person - the resemblance is so striking. The certificate of the clerk shows that but few of the soldiers were

Below is a copy of so much of Mr. Drury's letter as relates to the present application -
Calgary March 1891 Dear Sir
I have the honor to call your personal attention at any time to matters with the pension office relative to your case, and should I do so now it is I have not decided that your pension entitled  entitled  entitled  entitled  entitled  entitled with the Commission. But I have the Commission directly  directly with them, and am aware of the parties interested in the matter residing near you and is doubtless an acquaintance of yours. The claim is one of considerable importance and it seems to me a most unjust decision has just been given by the court of Pensions, or by a clerk in the office. The claim is for the amount due the heirs of Mary Ann (who died in 1844) widow of William Ross a sergeant of the Canadian Forces of Calgary who employed me to prosecute the claim until he made a decision.

in Sept last setting forth that his father W m Orr, served through the war as a conti- nental soldier on the N.Y. Line that he was a Sergeant and drew six hundred acres of bounty land - and the State - upon information derived from his father that he was detached while in service from his Co by order of Gen Washington to manufacture cannon as he was a skilled Black Smith I send you a copy of his declaration, this statement was sustained by the certificate of the Secretary (not comptroller) of this State a copy of which I enc.
To identify his son with the soldier bearing his name on the records of this State the affidavits of Gideon Dabney, and Barnard Dabney, brothers of Mrs. Orr were given, they to wit that his son served all through the war as a Private & Sergeant that he enlisted to their knowledge in 1775 under Cpt. Randall. That Gideon Dabney was a soldier and stated that he was with Orr in service.
Priscilla Orr

sister of Mrs. Orr likewise testified to Orr's service. These affidavits are all on file in the case. And yet the Commissioner affects to doubt whether the husband of Mrs. Orr was the soldier who served through the war - because it is asserted that "Happy Orr's" husband served some in Livingston's Furnace. The Com r declared that any Continental soldier worked in that Furnace without a signing any reason for the denial. And he stated the contract with Hugh Orr was a private one - This could not have been because Hugh Orr was himself a Continental soldier. I drew family land I am not mistaken in think (I think) for I have seen his name on the list of those who drew land - But if there is no evidence of H gh Orr's service as an Artificer - of course the claim for service as such cannot be allowed - I had supposed the evidence of it was at Washington. But here are some documents which settle the question of identity - the deed by which Orr conveyed away his bounty land which I wish you would present to the Com r & H gh Orr

is not evidence of the very highest order. I cannot find any that is. This deed was discovered among Mr. & Mrs. Napier's papers. I sent me a few days since. This it seems to me cannot be doubted. But the com d decision in reference to the proof of marriage is more extraordinary still. The family record of the birth of children in Mr. & Mrs. Napier's hand writing made more than 40 years ago was sent to the Pension Office. That record stated he had three children born before the war closed. Robert Napier, Janus, 1811 Vidron Or. May 28 th 1819 & Mr. & Mrs. Napier 1822. This record bears every mark of antiquity. It was written on the cover of an account book the remaining part of which I send to you. But this was not all. Benjamin & Vidron Calisburg both sure they were present at the ceremony of marriage which took place 2 nd Aug 1815. They were also to birth of children and the time. Priscilla Brown came to the time though she was not present at the ceremony. She remembered the way stated what preparations were made before and after the ceremony. They were married 4 miles from her father's house. She saw them go to be married. Saw them return to her father's house where in the evening a ball & party were given. And yet the com d decision over this testimony. It was proved that there were no town or Church record of the marriage.

✓ you are aware that Marriage in this State is regarded as a civil contract only, & that the contract made in presence of competent witnesses is just as binding as if made in the Church by a minister or a Magistrate.
Three parties were married by a minister named Elder Bradner who made no record of it, as but few records in N. H. state till at that time. Atty General Butler in an opinion given on the question of Marriage in this State in reference to the same person Law of 4 th July 1835 - says that proof of marriage by witnesses present is all that is necessary for action. Laws of 1821-5. But all the hundreds of claims have been allowed by the Com ee on proof of marriage by witnesses, & hundreds on proof of family records of birth of children, bearing fewer marks of antiquity than this record.
I have myself heard claims allowed where the family records were not as old as this. You can cite the Com ee to the case of Elizabeth Chapman widow of Jos Smith reported to you last winter - also to the case of the heirs of Abigail Cushing widow of Daniel Cushing - & to that of Sybil Conant widow of Brainerd Conant. Also to the case of Susannah Knight widow of Benj. Knight - where the testimony of one witness

Sir,
In the above mentioned claim there has not been presented to the Dept t and I hope your personal efforts will be sufficient to secure an allowance on the proof already filed, if the Commissioner still adheres to his decision. Can not an appeal be taken to the Sec. of War? I know the testimony filed in this case is enough to satisfy every tribunal not predetermined against it, as to its validity.
I fear that I shall be giving you some, perhaps, too much trouble to read the papers presented, and to see the Com t of Pensions, but the importance of the claim induced me to ask your cooperation, and if you will accept any compensation for your trouble it shall be given.
It will be seen that Mr. Served more than two years as Sergeant which will secure an allowance as Sgt t to the heirs from 1831 to the day of Mrs. Orr's death. An early allusion to this matter as shall be convenient to you is respectfully requested.
I am resp y Yours W. H. D. ... for Orr

P.S.
I have concluded not to send the cover of the book to you as it is bulky & would be expensive to postage - I may send it directly to the office - It, and of which use only to show the antiquity of the record - and that part of the cover containing the record is on file - On this cover there are dates written in 1803-4 - The leaf herewith sent is the only one left of the Book - I M D

Rev WIDOW, &c.
File No. 19,941 Hoppy Orr widow of William Orr Sergt Ben Var
Act: July 4th 86
Index:—Vol. M , Page 102
[Arrangement of 1870.]

N 7008 Hope Ordeal N
Seth L. M. Drury Dec 9 '47 " " Hon. E. B. Holmes Dec. 30 '47 to same Jan'y 22 '48 to same March 4 '48
act 4 July 1838

No 7008 Hopy Orv au. NY
Set h L M Drury Deeng. 47 " " Hon E. B. Holms De m 30. " " " Same Jany 22. 48 " " " March 24. 48 " " Same March 17. 48 " " Same July 11. 48 " " Same Augt 18. 48
ad 4 July 1836

State of New-York,—Clerk's Office, Oneida County, ss.
I, Patrick Mahon, Clerk of the said County, Do Certify, That
J. C. Sherman
whose name is subscribed to the Certificate of the proof or acknowledgement of the annexed instrument, and thereon written, was, at the time of taking such proof or acknowledgement, a Justice of the Peace for said county, dwelling in said county, and sworn and duly authorized to take the same. And further, that I am well acquainted with the hand writing of such Justice and verily believe that the signature to the certificate of said proof or acknowledgement, is genuine.
In Testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and affixed the Seal of the said county, this
21 st
day of
February
184 8 .
Patrick Mahon
Clerk.

June 6 add us Hope On
L M Drury

The afft of James Bryan is written by himself and his eligibility certified by Hon John F. Collins. Who is known to the Department -

Department of the Interior.
OFFICIAL BUSINESS.
H. H. Smith 1100 11th St NW Washington D.C. Mr. [unclear] 1100 11th St NW Washington D.C.  Commencement of Season 1100 11th St NW Washington D.C.
Nov 22 1889

The certificate of the County Clerk of the official character & signature of H. W. Taylor has been given, and is on file in this case.

I certify that Mrs. Priscilla Green (Widow of Ebenezer Green a Revolutionary Pensioner) is a woman of Credibility and is a person at this time of re- markable good memory for all of her years and in particular in relation to events that happened in her younger days I further certify that I have known her for thirty five years and she has dur- ing all that time sustained the reputation of being a woman of veracity and truth
(Dated at Bergen Genesee County N York the 31 st day of July 1848)
Samuel Richmond Justice of the Peace

Dutchess County ss, Personally appeared before me Thomas Lappin one of the Justices of the Peace for said County, the Twenty Seventh day of December in the year of our Lord One thousand seven hundred and Ninety four. William Orr of North East Town in said County - and lately a Soldier in the Second Regiment of the  State of New York from the State of New York, in the Army of the United States of America, during the Late War with Great Britain, who being duly Sworn, deposes and saith, that he never has, neither directly nor indirectly, conveyed a certain Lot of land, known and distinguished by lot Number Ninety five, in the Twenty Second Town, called Ulster in the County of Ulster (which became his property, for his services as a Soldier as aforesaid) to any person or persons, whatsoever. Except to Thomas Sears, of the Town of Haverstraw, in the said County of Dutchess - and further saith not.
Sworn before me the day and year above written.

THE PEOPLE of the State of NEW-YORK,
BY THE GRACE of GOD, FREE AND INDEPENDENT;
To William Orr Gentleman Greeting
W E reposing especial Trust and Confidence, as well in your Patriotism, Conduct and Loyalty, as in your Valour and Readiness to do us good and faithful Service; HAVE appointed and constituted, and by these Presents, DO appoint and constitute you the said William Orr Lieutenant N o 8 of Captain Wheaton Hicks Company in the Regiment of Militia in the County of Columbia whereof Matthew Scott Esquire is Lieutenant Colonel Commandant
YOU are therefore, to take the said Company into your Charge and Care, as Lieutenant thereof, and duly to exercise the Officers and Soldiers of that Company in Arms, who are hereby commanded to obey you as their Lieutenant and you are also to observe and follow such Orders and Directions, as you shall from Time to Time receive from our General and Commander in Chief of the Militia of our said State, or any other your Superior Officer, according to the Rules and Discipline of War, in Pursuance of the Trust reposed in you; and for so doing, this shall be Your Commission, for and during our good Pleasure, to be signified by our Council of Appointment. IN TESTIMONY whereof, We have caused our Seal for Military Commissions to be hereunto affixed. WITNESS our Trusty and Well-beloved GEORGE CLINTON, Esquire, our Governor of our State of New-York, General and Commander in Chief of all the Militia, and Admiral of the Navy of the same, by and with the Advice and Consent of our said Council of Appointment, at our City of New-York, the Thirtieth Day of September in the Year of our LORD, One Thousand Seven Hundred and Eighty Six and in the eleventh Year of our INDEPENDENCE.
Passed the Secretary's Office, the 24 th of January 1787
Lewis A. Scott. SECRETARY.

No. of Recd. Feb 21, 1848.
J. L. Edwards Esq.
Dear Sir,
Enclosed you have additional affts. in the case of the Orr Claim which I trust may be satisfactory to the Department -
E. B. Holmes

J. L. Edwards

House of Reps. Washington DC Feb. 12, 1848.
A. L. Edwards Esq. Dear Sir,
Enclosed please find the affts. of Gideon Salsbury & Priscilla Green duly certified as requested in your late let- ter. Also the additional afft. of Polly Ward touching the claim of the heirs of Irr. A favorable con- clusion is anticipated. Resp't. E. B. Halas

Canandaigua July 1 st 1848,
Dear Sir, I send enclosed to your care an affidavit & family record of Bennial Salisbury, to support his state- ment of the marriage & birth of children of Wm & Hasty Orr - It was only a few days since that it was known to me that this record was in existence - It strikes me that this is a literal compliance with the re- -quisition of the Commission „of Pensions in this case, viz the testimony of respectable

persons who can refer to some written memorandum to show that they are not mistaken in respect to the fact to which they are called to testify". And also in his letter to you in this case the Commissioner requires the testimony of some person who can testify to the birth of were our children -
I do not see how testimony can be stronger than this - or any event occurring calculated to fix in the mind another another the date of another event more strongly & clearly than that stated by B. Salisbury of the birth of his son

Robert which took place a few days after that of a son of Wm Orr. And the family record made many years since would show that B. Salisbury cannot be mistaken as to the time of the birth of his own son. Although the afft does not state it, yet if you inspect the hand writing of B. Salisbury signed to his afft you will see it is the same as that of the record itself. But the record is written much better & was done when he was much younger than now. I hope this is-

- they will be deemed suffi- -cient. to establish the claim I have not yet had a report on the other testimony sent to you a few weeks since in this case - I have not expected much that would  would satisfactory from that - but this testimony should suf- -fice - Yours truly -
L. M. Denny.
Hon E. B. Holmes Washington D. C.

Cambridge Feb. 16. '48
Dear Sir;
Herewith are the aff ts of James Orr & Gideon Orr on the subject of the bounty lands. and the aff t of B. Salisbury in reference to the marriage. The objection to his aff t before given was that he could not write his name. He could write, but did not in that aff t because his hand trembled. He has written his name to this & I hope it will carry some weight with it.
Yours truly-
L. M. Denny - Hon P. B. Holmes.

J L Edwards Esq Comr of Pensions

House of Reps- December 21. 1847-
Dear Sir, Enclosed I send you additional papers and ask a rehearing in the case of W d Orr's heirs, applicants for a Pension. I decline to trouble you personally as requested but send you the papers together with a copy of the letter of Mr. Drury Atty. for the applicants so far as it relates to this case as giving the grounds relied upon for a more favora- ble consideration of the same Mr. William  James Orr resides within 5 miles of my residence in N.Y. - I am well acquainted with him - He is a man of good reputa- tion & excellent character and

whose testimony can be relied on - I am quite sure he would not knowingly misstate the facts in the relation to this or any other matter - I trust that a review and the additional papers & facts bearing upon this case will bring you to a favorable conclusion thereon
Respectfully
Yrs
E. P. Holmes

  February 19 1803  Mary W. & Co. Dr.      to Messrs. H. & Co. for manure  50     to money in 2 loads from Noble  2 00     to Cash sent  7 00     to 2 tons to Brune Cattle  16 00     to 1 1/2 bushels of rye at 5/  7 6-    to  to Cash of Bagley  17 00    manure  to five scythes to Robert Orr  3 15 00     to half bushel wheat  9 00     to 1 lb of tobacco at 20/  1 6     to half lb of indigo @ 16/ at 10/  1 00     to 2 Behners @ 8/6  5 00     to Cash 2 Dollars  16 00     to half bushel Salt 1 lb of rum  9 00     to sowing flax ground  0 00     to one bushel of corn  5 00     to one bushel of rye  6 00     to Cash paid at yard for Baling  1 00     to nine lb of tallow  9 00     to Cash for work horse  1 6-  

 Work Done on to William an Gr mty balance due on book at 17-10-5 17 17 - 10 5 with the Interest on the same from December 184 to shewing hors - if _____ 184 0 2 0 sum one shilling between shoes 0 1 0 vir 16th to two shillings paid to games of 185 to hors keeping from octo ber the 8th to to november the 18th on hay & grain 2-5-0 to one collar for time — 0-5-0 sum to ling dollars to go to the westward 4-0-0 the 18th to shewing hors by Esquire sayrs - 6-0 2-6 
[Heavily mirrored and bleed-through text from the reverse side of the page. The text is mostly illegible due to the orientation and quality of the scan.]

House of Reps. Jan'y 10. 1848.
Ed. Edwards Esq.
Dear Sir,
Herewith I hand you the affh. of Priscilla Green for to the marriage of W m Orr & also the affh. &c of G. Salisbury in relation to the same subject together with the letter rec d from Mr. Drury upon the matter of Mrs. Orrs application & I trust this evidence will be satisfactory to the dept.
Resp y
E. B. Halmer

L. M. Drury Esq. Can. Feb 9, '48

Canandaigua Feb. 9. 1848.
Dear Sir;
I have complied with the technical requisition of the Court of Sessions & herewith transmit the affts of Priscilla Green & Endora Salisbury. In the former affidavits of these persons now on file in this case. The credibility of the witnesses was certified by the justices and the clerks certificates of the magistrates' official character & signature were likewise furnished. and I supposed they would be deemed sufficient for the enclosed affts.
I have also got an afft from Mrs Polly Ward of in relation to her mother's omitting to sign the deed of Wm Forbush land. as required by the Court.
I am very respectfully
Yours -
L. M. Denny.
Hon S. B. Holmes. Hv Recd.

State of New York Cayuga County Clerks Office } ss. I, Ebenezer B. Cobb, Clerk of said County and of the Courts of Record thereof, do hereby certify, that on an examination of the Records of the Military Bounty Lands, in this office, I find but few instances, in which the wife joins her husband in the original Conveyance of such bounty Lands.
In Testimony Whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my Official seal this 5th day of August A.D. 1848 Ebenezer B. Cobb Clerk of Cayuga Co.

Asst of Bernard Sain bury.

State of New York
county of Cayuga for J E B Cobb clerk of said county do hereby certify that H. D. Taylor Esq. is a Justice of the Peace in & for said county duly elected & qualified to act as such & to administer oaths that his term of office commenced on the first day of March 1848 and will expire on the thirty first day of December 1851 and that the signature to the annexed instrument is genuine. In testimony whereof I have herunto affixed my hand & the official seal of said county this eighth day of February 1848.
J. E. B. Cobb

Sir: /
Canandaigua N.Y. Nov. 22 d 1847.
Herewith is transmitted some additional testimony in the case of the Heirs of Hepsy Orr widow of W m Orr dec d . The case was sent to the Pension Office by me some two or three weeks since and has not yet been reached probably in its order -
Gideon Salisbury states that he was present at the marriage of William Orr with his sister, and also states his personal knowledge of Orr's service & of his being in the Artillerie Corps -
The paper relating to W m Orr's services it will be seen has not been received by me - which is a matter of regret. -
I am very respectfully
Your O bl Servt -
L. M. Denny -
J. L. Edwards Esq r Comm r of Pensions Washington D. C.

. am

Pension Office, December 9th, 1847.
Sir,
The papers in the case of Nancy Orr, dec d widow of William Orr, have been examined and filed under the Act of 4th July, 1836. The certificate of the Comptroller of New-York presented in support of this claim, shews that William Orr, of the Continental Line enlisted in 1776 and continued to serve as a Private and Sergeant until the close of the war, and the records of this Office shew that he received Bounty Land from the Genl Government, as well as from the State of New-York. It appears from the declaration that Mrs Orr's husband was employed during his service under his brother, Hugh Orr at the Living-ston Furnace casting Cannon for the use of the Army. There were no continental Troops at that Furnace, and as it is a well known fact, which is shewn also by the publication from Weaywoods' Gazetteer, that that Furnace was conducted under a private Contract with Col. Weobert for supplying the state with Cannon

and shot, it is, therefore, very clear that he was not the "War man" referred to in the Comptroller's Certificate. Orr's name is not found on the roll of artificers, and his service under his brother being an employment under a Private Contract, affords no ground for a pension; and to identify him with the "War man" bearing his name, evidence of the very highest order will be required.
The paper purporting to be a family register does not bear that evidence of age that would make it available as proof of a distant date, and is not deemed at all satisfactory to establish the date of their marriage. If there be no Town, or Church, records showing the date of that event, attainable, the testimony of those only who can refer to written memorandum or some other old document, showing that they are not mistaken upon the point in which their statements are intended to bear, will be sufficient.
Neither the service of Mary Orr's husband or the date of their marriage is established in the manner required by the regulations.

I am, very respectfully, Your W. Servt. J L Edwards
L. M. Drury Esqr., Canandaigua, New York.

Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Secretary's Office, Boston; August 18 th 1848.
Sir,
Be pleased to file a declaration in this office agreeably to the accompanying regulations, and search will be made for the revolutionary service of Hugh Orr and the result forwarded to your address.
I have the honor to be,
Very respectfully,
Your obedient servant,
M c Intosh Depy Secy

The following REGULATIONS, to be observed in the examination of the Revolutionary Rolls in this office, have been rendered necessary under the rules which are established in the Pension Department at Washington, viz :
1. Every application requiring search, or certificate, must be made to the Secretary, in writing, by the claimant, or by some person duly authorized by the claimant; and the signature to the application must be attested by some magistrate.
2. The application must set forth, as fully as the circumstances of the case will allow, the residence and service of the soldier, and the names of the officers under whom he served; and no search will be made until after the filing of such written application.
“Regulations to be observed in the examination of the Massachusetts Revolutionary Papers in the Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth.”
“The application must be made to the Secretary in writing, by the claimant, or by some person duly authorized by the claimant, by a written power of attorney, attested by a magistrate. The signature of the claimant must in all cases be attested in like manner.
“The application must set forth, as fully as the circumstances of the case will allow, the residence of the soldier, &c., at the time of the service, and the names of the various officers under whom he served, as well as the nature of such service.
“The certificate of the Secretary must show that the search was made, after the filing of such application, by himself, or by one of his Clerks alone, and must be accompanied by the original application of the claimant, or of his attorney, and by a detailed statement, under the signature of the Secretary, and the Seal of the State, of the circumstances which satisfied that officer of the identity of the party described in the application, with the individual who rendered the service.
J. L. EDWARDS, COMMISSIONER OF PENSIONS.”

APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF REVOLUTIONARY SERVICES, made by the _____ of the party who rendered the service.
State of _____ County of _____ Town of _____
The Secretary of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is hereby requested to furnish evidence from the Rolls in his office, of the service of _____ in the war of the Revolution.
He was a native of the Town of _____ in the County of _____ and State of _____
He enlisted from the Town of _____ in the County of _____ and State of _____ in the year 17_____ as a _____ in the Company commanded by Captain _____ in Regiment _____ and he served as follows, * viz:—
* Here describe as fully as may be, the length of service, the rank &c. of the claimant, or the capacity in which he served, and all other particulars known.

I am now                      years old, and my memory does not enable me to state the services more fully than above stated.
WITNESS my hand, this                      day of A. D. 184                      .
Signed by said in my presence,
JUSTICE OF THE PEACE.                      }

✓ Department of the Interior June 21 st 1849.
Sir,
In the case of Mrs. Hope Orr, a pensioner under the Act of July 4 th 1836, on the New York - Albany route, I have to inform you, that I approved of the decision of the Second Comptroller, and request that the Pension Agent at Albany be directed to make the payment. The papers are herewith returned.
I am, very respectfully, Your O be Servant
J. Ewing
Secretary.
J. S. Edwards Esq d Comm d of Pensions

H. M. Drury
June 2 1849
Relation to sundry affidavits sent on about the 25 th April last by Hon R. L. Rose - particularly those in reference to the claim of Hester Orr's heirs. —
Are the papers ref d to on file in the Office of Commr. of Pensions?
Dept. of the Interior June 13/49

Canandaigua, N.Y. June 9. 1849.
Sir:
I venture to make an enquiry of you, as to the reception of sundry affidavits sent by me through the Hon R. L. Rose, about the 25 th of April last, in the case of the heirs of Hopi, dec d widow of William Orr.
They were papers designed to vary the distribution of the relative shares of the heirs, named in the certificate of Pension, issued in the case under act of 4 th July 1836. One of the heirs could not be found, & had not been heard of for 20 years. And it was requested that instructions might be given to the Pension Agent at Albany to pay the amount due him to the other heirs. Another of the heirs had died, & information was desired, as to who was entitled to that one's share.
The papers were sent to you, because they had been submitted to the Com d of Pensions, & he had turned the matter over to the Pension Agent at Albany, and the Pension agent when applied to, had referred it back to the Commissioner.
As another case taken to you a few days before this, was reported upon on the 2 nd of May, and as I have not heard from this yet, I am led to fear that the papers have not been received -
I have the honor to be very respectfully, Your H on . Servt -
L. M. Drury.
Hon T. Ewing. Secretary of the Interior. Washington D.C.

Col. Edwards

House of Reps May 9, 1848
Genl Edwards Esq
Dear Sir,
I have the honor to transmit the affidavit of the James Orr and other papers in the case of Betsy Orr. In compliance with the request in the letter accompanying these papers from L. M. Drury Esq which compels me to say to you that I am personally acquainted with Mr. James Orr. He resides not more than five miles from my residence in New York; is a farmer of respectable standing whose statements may be relied on as being the result of his honest convictions. He is a man of integrity & credibility. Indeed from the examination I have been able to give to it I am satisfied of the justice of this claim & that no fraud will be perpetrated upon the government by granting it while individual suffering will be alleviated by such a conclusion.
Resp d Yrs E. J. Holmes
I send you Mr. Drury's letter to me.

We the undersigned, do hereby certify that we were personally acquainted with Gideon Salisbury, late of the town of Middlesex in the county of Yates, and State of New York, deceased, for a period of at least ten years preceding and up to the time of his death, and that he the said Gideon Salisbury sustained a fair character for truth and veracity, and was regarded in the neighborhood in which he resided as a credible witness and entitled to credit. We further certify that we severally resided during the said period within two miles of the residence of the said Gideon Salisbury, and that we severally had opportunity of becoming acquainted with his general character in the neighborhood of his residence. Dated Potter Yates County N.Y. July 28 th 1848.
Oliver Severy
Sam l W. Porrey
L g C o Winne
I certify that I am well acquainted with the three gentlemen who have signed the above certificate, that they are persons of high character and that their representations are in my opinion entitled to full faith and credence. C. A. Kirtland Oxford Co. N.Y. July 28 1848 M. A. Kirtland Ex Mem. H. R. of N.Y.

The subscribers, citizens of Ledyard, Cayuga County New York, and neighbors to Bemanuel Salisbury of said Town, hereby certify that we have known the said Bemanuel Salisbury for many years past - and that we believe him to be a man of integrity and credibility - whose statements, whether under oath or otherwise, we should not hesitate to take as true - Dated at Ledyard Cayuga County, New York July 20 th 1848.
J. L. Gaylord P.M. Aurora
Amariah Underhill P.M.
Ledyard James M'Gowan Esq. Ledyard.
A. H. Dennis Book Keeper Ineq o Bank Dep t . Constitution Offic e Albany late of Ledyard Cayuga Co. N.Y.
Christopher Morgan Secretary of State.
Albany, July 29, 1848.

L. M. Drury. Esq. Lockyand Dec 30 th 1847 Sir I. Received your letter of the 21 st and have called on Mr Salisbury agreeable to your request I found him much improved in health Since I last saw him his mind appears to be sound and to have a distinct Recollection of the Marriage of his sister with William Or Reminds the Ball on the evening of their Marriage Recollects of his father playing the Violin Recollects of his entertainment the Birth of their children but has No Old Record on paper by which he can refer to Neither does he know of any person that has any such paper or Record
In My conversation with him I could not find out any new matter that would be of any importance to you If you have Wane another affidavit Let me know and I will attend to it
Yours
C. W. Sayton

House of Rep Jan 10. 1848.
J L Edwards Esq Memphis,
I this day sent you additional affidavits to establish the marriage of Hopy Orr since which I have faired in with your note of the 30 th Dec laid by during my recent absence & S.Y. intimating that you still adhere to your former decision But I trust this additional testimony will be upon examination in- duce you to come to a different con- clusion. May I express the hope that you will again examine this matter as I have no doubt of the truth & justice of the cause
Respectfully Yours
E P Calmes

Letter of Com d of Pensions - 18, Aug. '48
No. 5.

Pension Office August 18th, 1848.
Pension Office
Sir,
I have the honor to inform you that the additional evidence in the case of Nancy Orr, deceased widow of William Orr, does not meet the objections heretofore urged against issuing a Pension Certificate to her children under the act of 4th July, 1836.
The copy of the Deed from Orr to Richardson showing that the soldier of the New-York Line bearing his name belonging to North East, and the Original Deed from Orr to Searcy showing the same facts, but unless it is made clearly to appear that they were made by claimant's husband they afford no evidence of his identity with that soldier. The Original Deed and the Original statement of Orr as to his conveyance to Searcy, and also the discharge to which his name is attached referred to in Mr. Drury's letter should be sent to this Office. They may by comparing the signature with the names on the back

of the book said to be a record of the births of Mary Orr's children made by her husband, may possibly afford the proof re- quired.
The evidence as regards the marriage does not shew with certainty that it took place before the conclusion of the war, and is therefore not satisfactory to establish the period of its consummation in the manner required by the Act of 4th July, 1836.
I have the honor to be Very respectfully, Your Atty Serv. H. S. Evans for Law of Pension
Wm. C. P. Holmes Memba of Congress.

Hope Over
Court of Pensions
Aug 11-48
No. 4-
4

Pension Office, July 11th, 1848.
Sir
I have the honor to inform you that the supplemental statement of Bernard Salisbury in the case of Mary Orr, deceased, widow of William Orr, does not establish the date of their marriage as satisfactorily as it should do.
If you or any member of Congress have a personal acquaintance with Gideon and Bernard Salisbury and can give a certificate of their character as credible witnesses, their testimony as regards the marriage in this case may be favorably considered.
No additional evidence of identity has been furnished by the papers now presented.
I have the honor to be, Very respectfully, Your Obt. Servt. J L Edwards
Hon. C. P. Melcher, House of Reps.

Quincy Johnson, Justice of the Peace
State of New York County of Columbia ss I James Storm clerk of said county hereby certify that Quincy Johnson is a Justice of the Peace in and for said county, duly elected and qualified, that his term of office commenced on the first day of January 1847 and will expire on the 31 st day of December 1857 and that his signature above written is genuine.
In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed the seal of said county this 29 th day of May — 1848
James Storm Clerk

Canandaigua. Jan. 6. 1848.
Dear Sir:
Herewith I send you some additional papers in the case of the heirs of Hepsy Orr - The original record of Gideon Salisbury is the only old record that can be found except that of it referred to in Mrs Green's afft & that is certified to by Mr Richmond - Mr Richmond was a member of the State Convention & is acquainted with Mr Mary - He strongly certified to Mrs Green's character & powers of mind in her former afft - It might be well perhaps to inform the Court of Pensions that Mr Mary is acquainted with him - If it can be avoided I would not wish to have the record of Gideon Salisbury go in the files - He & his family wish to keep it, and if it will answer to exhibit it to the Court & then return it to me. I wish you would see that it is done -
The enclosed letter of Mr Taylor the Justice who took Mr B. Salisbury's afft shows that he (Mr B) recollects all about the marriage but has no old document to refer to - I am not now aware that any further testimony in regard to the marriage can be got - But what is adduced ought to be sufficient - The old family record of birth of children, & the

testimony of three witnesses of good character & vigorous mental powers ought to be sufficient - You know that the marriage anytime before the husband left service brings the widow within the provisions of the act of 4 th July 1836 - & this marriage occurred before he entered service & they had three children born before the war closed - Gideon Orr - the oldest, is now living - Perhaps you know him - Perhaps it might be well to state to the court that both Gideon Salisbury & Mrs Green are pensioners -
I send you a letter received by me from Mr James Orr - in reply to one from me communicating the decision of the court to him. The original deed of W m Orr conveying away the bounty land describes him as a soldier in the 2 e N.Y. Regt. I told Mr James Orr that there were two 2 e N.Y. Regts - one, the 2 e N.Y. Regt. of Infantry commanded by Col. Van Cortland & the other the 2 e N.Y. Regt. of Artillery commanded by Col. John Lamb. & I asked him if he ever heard his father speak of serving under either officer - It will be seen that he remembers that he served under Col. Lamb. & I think it is altogether likely that he did - for all the testimony unites in

the assertion that W m Orr worked among the guns. And it may be that he was an Artillerist instead of an Artificer. I hope it will be found that he was Sergt. of Artillery, instead of Sergt. of Infantry - as it would make the amount due much larger. But our speculations as to the Regt. he served in or the grade he held are needless. It is known at the Pension Office how & where he served & the length of time. The deed describes him as a soldier in the 2 d N. Y. Regt. That is proof of identity. & it is known at the Pension Office whether he was in the Regt. of Infantry or Artillery.
Perhaps it would be well for you to extract from Mr. Orr's letter so much of it as relates to his father's services & exhibit it to the Com ee .
I do not know how the original deed came to be among W m Orr's papers. It was perhaps executed but never delivered, or he may have kept a copy.
From all that I can learn of the old people who knew W m Orr, he appears to have been a very ingenious mechanic, and a very upright man.
The Com ee in his letter, which you have, makes a wrong use of the "publication from Hay-

Woods Gaviller" - That publication was an extract published last summer in one of the Rochester papers from Haywoods Gaviller & was cut out by me & sent with the papers in the case - No allusion was made to it in any of the affidavits - The extract merely stated that in 1875 Col. Hobart met with great difficulties in manufacturing Cannon & shot for the American Army, in that he used Livinston Furnace &c. & then went on to say. (these are the words) that "in about three years afterwards the concern was disposed of to the State under the care of the late Col. Hugh Orr of Bridgewater & was removed by him to that place" And this was all it said - You will see therefore that what the Court says about the concern with Col. Hobart's being a private does not apply to the allegation in the declaration of James Orr. that his father was employed with his brother Hugh Orr in making cannon. for it was three years after this that the concern was disposed of to Col. Hugh Orr - However all this part of the matter is useless. since it is known that he served in the 2 d N.Y. Regt.
I believe you have all the facts in the case in your possession - I hope you will cooperate in the efforts made to get an allowance - You are doubtless perfectly satisfied of the meritworthiness of the claim - I am yours very truly. H. B. Holmes - L. M. Drury

No 7008
Copy Orr, dau widow of William NY
Act 4 July 1836
Married 1776
Husband died 124
now died July 1844
adm by Secy of War

Canandaigua N.Y. Nov. 4 th 1847.
Sir;
The claim of the heirs of Hepsy Orr widow of William Orr is herewith presented for investigation -
I would beg leave to call your attention to the allegation of James Orr in his declaration, that his father William Orr, was detached from Capt. Wendall's Co. to serve in the Corps of Artificers. The affidavit of Mrs Green & of Bernard Salisbury, both assert the same thing: that he was employed in manufacturing cannon -
It is expected that the rolls of the Corps of Artificers in the Pension Office will show the fact whether William Orr served among them & the length, & grade of his service as an Artificer -
The Secretary of this State informs me that there is no record of settlement with the Artificers in his Office nor in that of the Comptroller's -
If it appears from the evidence in the Pension Office that William Orr served as an Artificer or as a

Sergeant of Artificers. It is expected that the heirs will receive the benefit of that service. - The evidence of it, if in existence at all, is in the Pension Office -
Satisfactory proof of identity it is hoped is herewith transmitted -
The marriage is proved by Bemanuel Salisbury who was present at the ceremony. & the family record, & the testimony of Mrs Green & Bemanuel Salisbury show that children were born prior to the close of the war.
It is known to the Department, that public records of marriages were at the time of the revolution, rarely made in this State. & in this case it cannot be found - although efforts to that effect have been made.
In the opinion of the B. F. Butler Attorney General, given Aug. 18. 1837 - it is stated that "no formal solemnization of marriage by a minister or by any other particular Officer is requisite, and that a contract

of marriage entered into by parties capable of contracting, in the presence of an Officer of Camp - or any other competent witness is as valid as if made in facie ecclesie or in the presence of a civil magistrate - This was during the revolutionary war & yet continued to be the law of the State of New York -" (See Pension Laws Sec. No 98 - page 72) -
The benefit of this decision is asked in the present case - even if the record of birth of children herewith transmitted is not satisfactory -
I am very respectfully -
Your Off. Servt -
L. M. Drury -
J. L. Edwards Esq - Board of Pensions Washington. D. C. }

Letter of Com of Pensions March 2. 1848
No. 3.

Pension Office, March 4th, 1848.
Sir, I have the honor to inform you, that the additional testimony in the case of Hepsy Orr, dec d widow of William Orr, does not remove any one of the objections to the admission of her claim (communicated to you in my letter of the 30th December last.)
Sidon Salisbury and Priscilla Grew do not present in their supplemental statements any new facts associated with the marriage of their party calculated to shew, with any greater degree of certainty, the date of that event than was contained in their original affidavits. Such testimony, I repeat, cannot be relied upon to establish with any degree of certainty the period of any ordinary occurrence, which took place more than seventy years ago. Record or documentary evidence, or the testimony of respectable and intelligent individuals, based upon written record only, will be deemed sufficient, to shew that Mary Orr's marriage took place in 1775. Mary Orr, it appears, has now a number of children living some one, of whom should be able to prove either by a family record or by the testimony of witnesses the date of their birth and that of the birth of

their brother and sister.
As to the identity of Mrs Orr's husband, the reasons assigned by her daughter Mrs Leland, for her not signing the deed conveying her interest in the Land allotted to William Orr are wholly unsatisfactory. The only inducement that she could have had for withholding her signature, must have been to reserve to herself the right of dower, should be ever become entitled to it. The fact of her having survived her husband nearly twenty years without asserting that right, would go to show that it did not exist, which creates a strong doubt, as to her being the widow of William Orr, the person to whom the lot of Land for which that deed was given was assigned.
Very satisfactory proof upon this point, will be required to authorize the issuing of a certificate under the Act of 4th July, 1836, to Mrs Orr's children.
I have the honor to be
Very respectfully,
Your Hon. Secy.
H. S. Evans
for Care of Pension
Wm. C. S. Woodbury, Heads of Representatives.

Letter from Court of Pensions
Dec. 30. '47
No. 2 -
May 1779 Jan 1790 11
I have carefully exami- ned this case & am of opinion that she makes out a fair case for a pension. W. L. Marcy
21. Feby 49
Hon Washington Hunt H. Rep

Pension Office
December 30. 1847.
Sir,
I have the honor to inform you that the additional evidence in the case of Hasty Orr, dec d , widow of William Orr, has been received, and filed, with her other papers.
The proposition of the Deeds conveying the lot of land assigned to William Orr, of the New York Continental Line affords a strong presumption that that soldier was the husband of Mrs Orr, but from the fact of her not having joined her husband in that deed, unless some satisfactory reason can be assigned for her withholding her name from that instrument, it would appear that she was not his wife at that time (1794) some explanation upon this point is required to identify that soldier with her husband.
As regards the marriage of those parties, I can only state that each claim must rest upon its own merits reference to other cases having no connexion whatever with this, cannot be had for the purpose of shewing that the evidence

now before the department is satisfactory to establish the date of that event in the manner required by the regulations.
The entries on the back of an old book purporting to be a record of the births of Mr. Orr's children have been again examined, and I repeat that in the opinion of this department do not bear that evidence of age that would make them availing as proof of a marriage said to have taken place in 1776. And as none of the witnesses can write their names and of course can keep no memorandum of date their testimony cannot be relied upon to establish with any degree of accuracy the date of an event after a lapse of more than seventy years.
The decision of this office upon this branch of the case communicated to Mr. Drury, on the 9 th inst. is adhered to.
I have the honor to be,
Very Respectfully,
Your Ob d nt Servt.
J. L. Edwards
1848 58 9/0
Hon: E. B. Holmes,
House of Rep s

State of New York Cayuga County S.
Daniel Salisbury of the town of Ledyard in the County of Cayuga being sworn Says that he is eighty eight years old the twenty first day of November Last that he was acquainted with William Orr and that the said William Orr was Married to this deponent's Sister Hepsy Salisbury in August 1775, at a place then known as North East in Dutchess County and this deponent was present at their Wedding they were Married by a Man by the Name of Braden and this deponent Says that the said William Orr had three Children born previous to the close of the War Robert Orr was born in January 1777. Gideon Orr was born in May 1779 William Orr was born April 1781 And this deponent further Says that the said William Orr enlisted in the New York Continental Service in Capt Wendalls Company in the year 1776 to serve during the War and that the said Orr was a Sergeant a part of the time and a part of the time he was employed by Government in Carting Cannon for the Continental Service at Lexington Furnace and this deponent Says the said William Orr did serve in the Continen- tal Service untill the close of the War and got his discharge and this deponent Says that the said William Orr drew a tract of Land for bounty Land Situate in the South part of the State of New York and this deponent Says that

he talked of purchasing of the said William his right to said Land
And this deponent further Says that he saw the said William Orr during the War that he was at home frequently during the War and saw him after his discharge in June 1783, and this deponent further Says that he saw William Orr in 1795 at Tioga Point and that the said William Orr had then been to take possession of the Land which he drew from government. and further this deponent Says that the said Orr has since that time dis- posed of his said Land this 9th day of Feb Benamin Salisbury 1848 before me
H. W. Taylor
Pastor of the pres Cayuga County
I Certify that I am acquainted with the above named Benamin Salisbury and that his character for truth and veracity is good
Soddyand Feb 9th 1848
H. W. Taylor
Pastor of the pres of Cayuga County

The old man persisted in saying that he could not write until we got him to Troy - his first attempt he done well, better than could be expected - but the second time he could not make two marks on the same sheet. So high was he excited but after waiting a short time he took it quite plain.
If this is not sufficient you can draw up an end at to me as you will see all the part in both yours & H. W. Dayton

No 7018
Hophy Orr decd, mo of William 1687 NY
Act 4 May 1836
Adm. G. G. G.
N York City
$120 00 per
On 4 March 1831 to 20 July 1844 the day of her death pay over to Gideon Orr William Orr, James Orr, Aaron Orr, John Orr, and Polly Ward, only surviving children of Hophy Orr and
Ann Washington Hunt Barnesville, Ky.

This Indenture made the twenty fourth day of December one thousand seven hundred and ninety for Between William Orr of North east town in Dutchy county and state of New York blacksmith late a sol- dier in the second Regiment from the State of New York in the service of the United States of America saying the late wife with great reluctance of the first part and Thomas Scan of Fredericktown in said county fav- orance of the second part Witnesseth that the said party of the first part for and in consideration of the sum of Forty pounds current money of New York to him in hand paid by the party of the second part the receipt whereof is hereby acknowledged hath granted bargained and sold and by these presents doth grant bargain and sell and confirm unto the said party of the second part and to his heirs and assigns forever All that certain Lot piece or parcel of land known and dis- tinguished by lot number ninety five in the town- ship of Scarsdale called Ulverton lying in the county of Diage in the state aforesaid agreeable to a map and field book thereof filed in the Secretary's office prepared for within five hundred acres of land to the same more or less with the appur- tenances thereunto belonging or in any wise ap- pertaining To have and to hold the lot of land above mentioned with all the privileges and appurtenances thereunto belonging (except such as are reserved in the patent) unto the said party of the second part his heirs and assigns forever

Forever And the said party of the first part for himself his heirs executors and administrators the said hereby granted premises and every part and parcel of the same with the appurtenances (except as before is excepted) unto the said party of the second part his heirs and assigns against him the said party of the first part and his heirs and against all and every other person and persons lawfully claiming by him or under him shall and will warrant and forever defend by them forever. In witness whereof the parties to the present have interchangeably set their hands and seals the day and year first above written.
Sealed and delivered } William 1799 in the presence of. } 30
Catherine Livingston Gilbert Livingston
State of New York S. S. I do hereby certify that on this twenty sixth day of December in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and ninety four personally appeared before me Gilbert Livingston marked in choosing for said state William Orr who acknowledged that he did sign seal and delivered the preceding written instrument as his vo- luntary act and deed, and having inspected the same and finding no refer or intimation there- in I do allow the same to be recorded.
Gilbert Livingston

This Indenture made the sixteenth day of February in the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety five Between William Orr of North East Town in the County of Dutchess And State of New York, Blacksmith, late a Soldier in the Second New York Regiment in the service of the United States of America during the late war with Great Britain, of the first part, and John Richardson of the County of Onondaga of the second part Witnesseth, &c.
In Witness whereof the parties to these presents have interchangeably set their hands and seals the day and year first above written. Sealed and delivered in the presence of William Keteltas Thos Poole William Orr S.S.
State of New York ss. Be it remembered that on the sixteenth day of February in the year One thousand seven hundred and ninety five personally appeared before me Gilbert Sivingson, Master in Chancery for said State, William Orr who acknowledged that he did sign seal and deliver the preceding written instrument as his voluntary act and deed; and having inspected the same and finding no rasures or interlineations therein I do allow the same to be recorded. Sixteenth attended from fifteenth in the dated and acknowledged by the grantor.
Gilbert Sivingson
Also the word forty in the thirteenth line struck through with a pen, and the words "one hundred and twenty" interlined in the same place, said deed was acknowledged by the said grantor after the above alterations was made in the sum of the consideration, I do therefore allow the same to be recorded.
Gilbert Sivingson,
Dutchess County ss. William Orr of North East Town in the said County of Dutchess, Blacksmith being duly sworn, Deposeeth and saith that he never has neither directly nor indirectly conveyed a certain lot of land known and distinguished by Lot Number Ninety five in the twenty second Town called Ulysses in the County of

Lioga (which became his property for his services as a soldier in the Army of the United States of America) to any person or persons whatsoever Except to Thomas Sears of the Town of P'ricks in said County of Dutchess, And further saith not,
Given before me the day and year above written. Tunnis Tappan jus. of Peace
William Orr S.S.
Recorded the 23 d May 1795 at 11 o'clock A.M. Ben. Sedgwick, clk
Recorded in Book A page 3811
State of New York Cayuga County Clerk's Office S.S.
I certify the foregoing to be a correct abstract of a Deed on record in this Office.
In Witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my Official Seal at the City of Auburn in the County aforesaid this 5 th day of August A.D. 1848
Ebenezer Black
Clerk of the County of Cayuga & of the County of Rensselaer

Affidavit of Priscilla Green

State of New York County of Genesee ss. Priscilla Green of the town of Bergen in said county being duly sworn doth depose & say that the time & circumstances of the marriage of her sister Hopsy Salisbury with William Orr are perfectly & distinctly remembered by her - that though she was but a child at the time yet it was the first cere- -mony of the kind she had ever at- -tended and it made an impression upon her mind and she cannot be mistaken as to the fact and the time of said marriage - that on the evening of the day when said marriage took there was a ball & party given at the house of this deponent's father at which this deponent was present - This deponent states that she remembers that the said marriage took place in the sum- -mer season at the time when cherries were ripe - that her said sister was eighteen years of age in a few days after the time of her marriage - that she was eighteen years of age on the twentieth day of August and that the marriage took place on the second day of said month in the year nineteen hundred & seventy five (1875) This deponent states that she is enabled to state that the said marriage took place in said year from the fact that her said sister Hopsy was ten years older than this

deponent, and this deponent states that she was born in the year seven hundred & sixty seven, as will appear by the family record in the bible belonging to this deponent which has been kept by her for many years and on which this deponent has relied for the date of the time of her birth - This deponent states that she was about eight years of age at the time of said marriage.
This deponent further states that her Brother Salisbury was her Brother - that he was a soldier in the war of the revolution, and this deponent knows that the marriage of her said sister Mary with the said Orr took place several years before her said Brother entered the service as a soldier - This deponent states that she was not present at the ceremony of said marriage, though she was present and took part in the preparations before & the party after said marriage.
Subscribed & sworn to this 4 th day of Janu- ary, 1848. Before me -
her Priscilla D Green Smith
Samuel Richmond Justice of the Peace
I hereby certify that I have this day examined the family record referred

to in the above affidavit of Priscilla Green - that said record states that she was born the third day of March in in the year seven hundred and sixty seven - that the said record is in a large bible much worn and has the appearance of having been used for many years and the said record appears to have been written many years since in said bible -
Samuel Richmond Justice of the Peace
I further certify that Priscilla Green the above mentioned deponent is a woman of remarkably strong powers of mind and memory for one of her years, and her character for truth and veracity is unquestionable
Bergen Feb. 1 st 1838
Samuel Richmond
{ Justice of the Peace
I certify that Samuel Richmond is a Justice of the peace as above and that the foregoing certificate is genuine.
In testimony whereof I have hereunto affixed my seal of office and subscribed my name this 2 day of February 1838
M. J. Gaspé Esq. etc.
A L

State of New York Cayuga County ss
Barnum Salisbury of the town of Ledyard County and State aforesaid being duly sworn who deponeth and says that he was born on the twenty first day of November 1769 and that he will be eighty eight years old on the 21 st day of November next and that he was acquainted with William Orr who live at Hillsdale Columbia County in the State of New York and that the said Orr was married this deponent's sister Hepsy Salisbury in August 1775 and that the Orr had three Children born before the close of the war Robert Orr was born in January 1777 which he knows from the fact of living in Orr family at the time this deponent live with Orr for the purpose of learning the blacksmiths trade Gideon Orr was born August 1779 eleven months before this deponent was married which this deponent remembers distinctly, it being the year of the deep snow or hard winter as it was generally called and that William Orr Jr was born April 11 th 1781 which fact he remembers by referring to the annual family Record of the birth of this deponent's own son who was born April 18 th 1781 a few days after the birth of William Orr and he also remembers it by another circumstance this deponent was called out in the Militia of Columbia County under Col. Winchester which was in the fall after the birth of William Orr Jr and of his own son Robert And this deponent further says that the aforesaid Record contains a true Statement of the time of his own birth and of his wife and Children

and that it has been in the family bible for Many Years and that it has been the only Record on which he has Relied on for the date of his children's birth and death This deponent Says, That Mr. Orr had but one Wife Susannah and Simon Benaneut Salisbury this 28 th day of June 1848 before me H. W. Taylor
Partner of the Firm in and for the County of Cayuga and State of New York
I Certify that I am acquainted with Benaneut Salisbury and that he is a Man of Credibility H. W. Taylor

Polly Ward Apt

State of New York Oneida County ss 3
Polly Ward being duly Sworn deposes and says that she is the daughter of William and Polly Orr and is fifty three years of age And that her Mother has lived with her about twenty years previous to her death and that frequently during the time of her mother's residence with her she heard her speak of the sale by her husband of his bounty lands. saying that she was dissatisfied with her husband William Orr for selling the land at the very low price for which he sold it that she did not sign the deed - and that she was frequently advised after her husband's death to institute legal proceedings for her right of dower in the land - but that her mother refused to do so for the reason that the purchasers of the land had obtained it from the person to whom her husband sold it in good faith & for full considera- -tion although her husband had sold it for a mere trifle with which as before stated she was very much dissatisfied - And that she (this deponent) has frequently heard her mother make these state- -ments in relation to the said bounty lands Polly Ward

State of New York Onondaga County
Be it known that on the 24 th day of Jany 1848 before me Julius C. Thorne a justice of the Peace in and for the County aforesaid personally appeared Polly Ward with whom I am well acquainted & being by me duly sworn deposed to the truth of the prece- -ding statement & signed by to the truth of which statement from my intimate knowledge of her character I am fully satisfied
Julius C. Thorne Justice of the Peace

State of New York
County of Orleans ss On this 30th day of September 1818 eighteen hundred eighteen personally appeared in open court James Orr of the town of Murray in said County aged fifty seven years who being first duly sworn according to law doth on his oath make the following declaration in order to obtain the amount due to the heirs of Hepsy Orr, widow of William Orr deceased under the act of 4 th July 1835.
This declarant states that he is the son of William Orr who was a soldier in the war of the revolution - that the said William Orr was a native of the town of North East Dutchess County in said State - that he entered the service of the United States in said war (as this declarant has understood from his said father the said William Orr) as a soldier in the New York Line to serve during the war that he was a sergeant during a portion of the time he was in service and that for his services in said war he drew, (to this declarant's knowledge) six hundred acres of bounty land located in the County of Cayuga - in said State -
This declarant further states that he has heard his father the said William Orr say that he was employed, by the Order of General Washington during a portion of the time he was in service with a Brother of his named Hugh Orr) in casting cannon for the use of the American Army at a place near the Hudson River called Swingshire Furnace

that he assisted in the construction of the chain placed across the Hudson river in said war - but how long his said father was employed in this capacity this declarant is unable to say - that his said father was a Blacksmith by occupation -
This declarant states that he has seen & read the annexed certificate issued from the office of the Secretary of State of New York & signed by Arch d Campbell. & this declarant states that he believes & has no doubt that the person mentioned therein was his father the said William Orr.
This declarant further states that his said father was married to this declarant's said mother before the close of his service in said war, as this declarant has heard his said mother say - by a minister named Elder Bradner - that the marriage took place prior to the close of the war, but in what year he is unable to say -
This declarant further states that the annexed is a true copy - made by this declarant some twelve or fifteen years since of the original family record kept by his said father & mother - that it contains a true statement as this declarant believes of the time of the birth of this declarant's said father & mother & of their children - that the two names first mentioned in said

record are this declarants said parents & the other names are those of their children of this said father & mother -
This declarant states that he believes that the original record from which the annexed transcript was taken is still in existence but of this he is not positive.
This declarant further states that his father the said William Orr died about twenty years since - that his mother the said Mary Orr died on the twentieth (20 th ) day of January eighteen hundred & forty four (1844) that after the death of this declarants said father his said mother did not again intermarry - that this declarants said father & mother left six children surviving them whose names are Gideon Orr, William Orr, James Orr, Aaron Orr, John Orr & Polly Ward.
I sworn & subscribed the 30 th day of September 1847 - Before me - Henry R. Curtis County Judge of Orleans County N.Y.
James Orr
State of New York County of Orleans ss I Elijah Dana Clerk of said County do hereby certify that at a County Court held in & for said County on the 30 th day of September 1847 - it was duly proved by the exhib.

lation of testimony satisfactory to said Court that William Orr died about twenty years since - that his widow Hopsy Orr died on the twentieth (20 th ) day of January eighteen hundred & forty four (1844) - & that the said William & Hopsy Orr left six children surviving them whose names are Gideon Orr William Orr James Orr Aaron Orr John Orr & Polly Ward -
In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand & seal of said Court this 30 th day of September 1847 -
Elijah Danna Clerk

State of New York } Secretary's office }
I certify that it appears that on the 23 d day of December 1776 William Orr Enlisted as a Soldier in the First New York Regiment Capt. Wendell's company to Serve during the war - P c May 1778 - Sergt June 1780 p c July 1782 - Mustered to the end of the war as appears by the Military Register in this Office.
Arch d Campbell Dep. Sec. of State
Albany Sep 25. 1847

town of Murray to James Orr Jr Apr 25 to meeting commissioners to agree on tax 1 25 to examining road with comm near Scio 1 25 to examining road in north Murray 1 25 May 21 to laying out road near Soosies mill 1 25 May 25 to meeting with commissioners to consider the tax at Bangs to high 1 25 June 16 to examining road near Jameses 1 25 17 to giving notice to Mr Butterfield to move fences out the road on transline 1 25 20 to meeting James Commis 1 25 22 to meeting Clarkson comm and near county line road 1 25 to let chain 1 25 29 to meeting comm on District No 2 for examining road 1 25 July 6 to going to meet commissioners at Sandy creek to let out Bridge and adjourn 1 25 11 to one day meeting comm at Sandy creek to let out bridge & adjourn 1 25 14 to one hundred and sixty feet of timber to fix bridge on District No 39 5 92 18 to meeting commissioners and let out Bridge on District No 2 to John Sprague 1 25

Wm Orr born Jan 1 th 1754 Hope Orr born August  Jan 1 th 1757 Gideon Orr born May 28, 1770 Wm Orr Junr born March 11, 1781 James Orr born Jan 17, 1790 Aaron Orr born May 6, 1792 John Orr born March 11, 1792 Polly Orr born Oct 6, 1794 it ought

The Revolution.
Every well authenticated fact connected with the Revolution, possesses at the present day, a peculiar interest, and should be preserved for the perusal of after generations. The following, copied from Hayward's Massachusetts Gazetteer, exhibits an illustration of one among the many difficulties which the colonists were obliged to encounter in their struggle with the mother country. Col. Hobart, mentioned below was a resident of Abington, in this State :
In the year 1775-6, Colonel Aaron Hobart contracted with the State to make cannon and shot, and the State furnished him with a large amount of materials to begin with, as pig iron and coal ; this was a bold undertaking. Col. Hobart had no knowledge of the business,—he cast bells, it is true, and was the owner of a blast furnace for casting hollow ware, &c., but the exigency of the times required a powerful effort. The revolutionary war had just commenced, and there were few cannon in the country, hundreds of merchant ships were in want of cannon to go out as privateers. The first attempts, (and they were the first that were made in this country,) proved very unsuccessful ; in proving the cannon, they split ; the iron could not be kept sufficiently hot ; it chilled too quick. So disastrous was the experiment, that all the stock provided by the State was expended, and his own fortune beside.
This disappointment was severely felt by him and the public. But, providentially, at this dark hour, the cause of his failure was discovered ; a Frenchman, in passing through the town, and stopping at a public house, hearing of the Colonel's want of success, inquired the cause, and being told, he said there was no difficulty in keeping the iron sufficiently hot ; on inquiry, he stated that he had worked in a cannon foundry in France. He was instantly invited to inspect the furnace, and stated at once the cause of the failure, which was, the flue or draft of the chimney was made large, and the chimney above small ; he said the reverse ought to be the case—the flue small, and the chimney large above ; no time was lost in making this change, and the success was complete ; the contract with the State was fulfilled, individuals were supplied extensively. About three years after this, the concern was disposed of to the State, under the care of the late Colonel Hugh Orr, of Bridgewater, and removed to that

State of New York County of Orleans
On this 30 th day of September 1847- personally appeared in open court before the judge of the county court of said county James Orr of Murray in said county who being first duly sworn doth on his oath make the following declaration in order to obtain the amount due to the heirs of Hasty Orr widow of William Orr deceased under the act of 4 th July 1836.
This declarant states that he is the son of William & Hasty Orr - that his father was a native of the town of North East Dutchess Co- unty in said state - This declarant states upon information & belief derived from his said father that his said father was a soldier in the war of the revolution - that he enlisted from the said town of North East in the early part of the war & and served through the greater part of it - that he was a sold sergeant a portion of the time - & that for his services he drew (to this declarants knowledge) six hundred acres of land located in the county of Cayuga in said state -
This declarant further states that he has heard his said father say that he was detached from the ranks as a soldier by order of General Washington to serve with his brother Hugh Orr among the Artificers manufacturing cannon in Livingston Furnace, & that he was employed in con- -structing the chain placed across the Hudson River in said war - and but how long he served in this capacity this declarant is unable to state - that his father was a blacksmith by occupation -
This declarant further states that he has seen & heard read the annexed certificate from the Secretarys Office in Albany N.Y. signed by Arch d Campbell Dep y Secretary of State - which certificate purports to set forth

a description of the of William Orr services in the war or the revolution; and this declarant states that he believes & has no doubt that the person therein mentioned was his said father - This declarant further says that his mother's maiden name was Hepsy Salisbury that she was married to this declarant's father in the said town of North East sometime previous to the close of the revolutionary war, but in what year he is not able to state - that they had three children born prior to its close - This declarant states that the annexed record of was copied by him some fifteen years since from an original record of his father of the birth of his children - that the said original record is not now in his possession but is with his sister Mrs Polly Ward - This declarant further says that his said father died in the year 1822 - & that his said mother died the 20 th of January 1844 - & that they left five children surviving them - &c -
Sworn & subscribed the day & year first above written - before me H. A. Curtis.
James Orr -
Conven't Judge of Orleans Co. N.Y.

Hospy 682-
Copy Testimony-

No 2.
Copy Certificate of Secretary of State.
State of New York Secretary's Office } I certify that on the 20 th day of December 1776. William Orr enlisted in the first New York Regiment. Capt. Wendall's Company to serve during the war - Priv. May 1778. Sergt. June 1780. Pr. July 1782. Mustered at the close of the war as appears by the military Register in this Office.
Arch'd Campbell
Dep. Sec. State
Albany Sept. 25 th 1847
No. 3.
Copy Affidavit of Bemanuel Salisbury
State of New York Cayuga County } Bemanuel Salisbury of the town of Hedgland in said county being duly sworn, who deposes and says that he is eighty eight years old the twenty first day of November last, and that he was acquainted with William Orr who married Mary Salisbury in August in the year 1775 and that he was pres- ent at their marriage and that they were married in the town of Hillsdale in the county of Dutchess by a man named Elder Br- adner and that they had three children born previous to the close of the war and that their names were Robert, Gideon, and William. Robert Orr was born in January 1777 - Gideon Orr was born in August 1779 - William Orr was born in April 1781 This deponent further says that William Orr was a soldier in the war of the revolution, that this deponent was acquainted with said William Orr at the time of his enlistment, and that he enlisted in Capt. Wendall's Company to serve during the war, and this depon- ent further says that the said Orr was a Sergeant a part of the time he was employed in Livingston's farm, casting can- non for the continental Army, and he further says that the said William Orr was in the service of the Government

10 18 S. ... during the war, and until the war closed, and this deponent, says the said William been enlisted in December 1861 and further this deponent says not.
Bernard his Salisbury Mark
Subscribed and sworn before me
this 22 nd day of Oct. 1847.
H. H. Taylor
Justice of the Peace.
I certify that I am acquainted with Bernard Salisbury the person named in the written affidavit, and know him to be a person of truth and credibility.
Ledyard Oct. 22 nd 1847
H. H. Taylor
Justice of the Peace of the town of Ledyard
Nov. 4. 5.
Copy affidavit of Priscilla Green and Helen Salisbury.

7 State of New York } County of Dutchess } P. P. Patsilla Green of the town of Bergen in said county aged eighty years in March last past, being duly sworn doth depose and say, that her maiden name was Patsilla Salisbury - that when a child she resided in the town of North East Dutchess Co. in said state and that Hopy Orr formerly Hopy Salisbury was her sister - This deponent states that her said sister was ten years older than herself - This deponent further states that she well and distinctly remembers the time when her said sister was married to William Orr - This deponent at the time of said marriage was eight years of age and her sister the said Hopy was nearly eighteen years of age - that the marriage took place on the second day of August in the year seventeen hundred & seventy five (1775) and that her said sister was eighteen on the twentieth day of the said month & year - This deponent states that the circumstances of the marriage of her said sister are perfectly and distinctly remembered - that the said Hopy & the said Orr left the house of this deponents father on the morning of the day that the marriage took place and went to a place about four miles distant where the ceremony of marriage was performed by a man named Elder Bradner - that after the ceremony had been performed and on the same day the said William and the said Hopy returned to the house of this deponents father & that in the evening a ball & party were given at the house of this deponents said father on the occasion of the aforesaid marriage of her said sister with the said William Orr - at which ball and party this deponent was present - This deponent further states that she was not present at the ceremony of marriage between her said sister and the said William Orr - This deponent further states that she knew the said William Orr intimately - that sometime after the aforesaid marriage had taken place the said William Orr enlisted into the Continental service of the United States as a soldier - that he served during a greater part of the revolutionary war & that during a portion of the time he was in service he he was an orderly sergeant as this deponent then heard & believed & still believes - that while as long as my memory serves me

He was absent in service, his wife, the said Hopy, resided at the house of this deponent's said father some of the time, and also a portion of the time at the house of the father of the said William Orr in the said town of North East.
This deponent further states that the said William Orr while in service, occasionally came home to the said town of North East on a furlough. This deponent further states that the said Hopy & the said William Orr had three children to the deponent's knowledge, born before the close of the revolutionary war - that the name of the first child was Robert Orr who died when he was two years of age - that the second son was named named Gideon Orr & that he was born as this deponent well remembers on the twenty eighth day of May but in what year she does not distinctly remember - that on the day of his birth this deponent remembers that she picked a quantity of strawberries & brought them to her said sister. This deponent further states that her said sister had another child born before the close of Revolutionary war & that his name was William Orr.
This deponent further states that she distinctly remembers to have heard it said during the time of the Revolutionary war that the said William Orr was employed during a part of the time he was in service in manufacturing cannon, with a brother named Hugh Orr - at a place called Livingston Furnace which place this deponent states that she visited during said war, and that the said William Orr assisted in constructing the chain which was placed across the Hudson river in said war.
Sworn & subscribed
(Signed) Priscilla her Green mark.
this 16 th day of October
1847. Before me. Samuel Richmond J.P.
I certify that the reason why Mrs Green made her mark was because she is so blind she cannot see to write her name - I further state that she is a woman of integrity & credibility & is a person of more than common good memory, especially in relation to matters

that transpired in his youth younger days. I further certify that I have been acquainted with Mrs. Green ever since I was a child.
Samuel Richmond Justice de -
State of New York } County of Yates } ss Gideon Salisbury of Middlesex in said county aged eighty four years in January last past being duly sworn doth depose & say that he was a soldier in the war of the revolution and is a Pensioner of the United States for his services in said war - This deponent states that Hopewell  Corr. former Hopewell Salisbury was his sister - that she was married to Hopewell Corr. William on the second day of August in the year seventeen hundred and seventy five (1775) in the county of Dutchess & state of New York, by a man named Elder Bradner, & this deponent states that he was present at the ceremony of marriage of his said sister & the said William Corr. This deponent states that he knew William Corr intimately - that he was a Blacksmith by occupation, and was an ingenious workman.
This deponent states that the said William Corr enlisted into the service of the United States as a soldier in the war of the revolution into the New York continental troops in a company commanded by Captain Wendall. That the said Corr enlisted in the early part of the war to serve during the war - and that he was a Sergeant during a portion of the time he was in service.
This deponent states that the said Corr was while in service detached from said company and was employed in manufacturing cannon. That he made a cannon of a peculiar description which was exhibited to General Washington. and further that the said Corr to this deponent's knowledge was one of the principal workmen employed in constructing the chain which was placed across the Hudson River near West Point in said war.
This deponent states that he was at West Point at the time

the said chain was placed across the river and he assisted in constructing the frame work of logs which was used in supporting said chain. This deponent states that the said William Orr was assisted in constructing said chain by a man named Carr. - This is all
This deponent further states that the said William and the said Hopy Orr had three children born before the close of said war - whose names were Robert Gideon & William Orr.
Sworn and subscribed
This 20th day of December 1847 before me
his Gideon X Salisbury mark
John L. Schenck J.P.
I hereby certify that the above named deponent is personally known to me, and that he is a person of credibility. John L. Schenck J.P.
cy 1st aff. Priscilla Orr & Salisbury
No. 6. copy affidavit of Polly Ward -

State of New York Oneida County
Polly Ward being duly sworn de- poses and says, that she is the daughter of William and Hopy Cern and is Fifty three years of age and that her mother has lived with her about twenty years previous to her death and that frequently during the time of her mother's residence with her she heard her speak of the sale by her husband of his county lands. saying that she was dissatisfied with her husband William Cern for selling the land at the very time low price for which he sold it. that she did not sign the deed - and that she was frequently advised after her husband's death to institute legal proceedings for her right of dower in the land but that her mother refused to do so for the reason that the purchasers of the land had obtained it from the person to whom her husband sold in good faith & for full consideration although her husband had sold it for a mere trifle with which as before stated she was very much dissatisfied - and that she (this deponent) has frequently heard her mother make these statements in relation to the said home- by lands
Signed Polly Ward.
State of New York Oneida County
Be it known that on the 24 th day of Jan. 1848 before me Julius C. Thorne a Justice of the Peace in and for said County aforesaid personally appeared Polly Ward with whom I am well acq- -uainted & being by me duly sworn deposed and to the truth of the preceding statement signed by her. to the truth of which statement (from my intimate knowledge of her character I am fully satisfied.
Julius C Thorne Justice of the Peace.

copy Afft. of Colh Ward.
No. 7.
copy 2 o affidavit of Bernamuel Salisbury.

State of New York
Cayuga County } Bemanuel Lachtring of the town of Ledyard in the county of Cayuga being sworn says that he is eighty eight years old the twenty first day of November last, that he was acquainted with William Orr and that the said William Orr was married to this deponent's sister Hepsy Sailsbury in August, 1775, at a place then known as North East in Dutchess County and this deponent was present at their wedding. They were married by a man by the name of Braden and this deponent says that the said William Orr had three children born previous to the close of the war. Robert Orr was born in January 1777, Gideon Orr was born in May 1779, William Orr was born April 1781. And this deponent further says that the said Wil- iam Orr enlisted in the New York Continental Service in Capt. Wendall's Company in the year 1776 to serve during the war and that the said Orr was a Sergeant a part of the time and a part of the time he was employed by government in casting cannon for the Continental Service at Livingston's furnace, and this deponent says that the said Wil- iam Orr did serve in the Continental Service until the close of the war and got his discharge, and this deponent says that the said William Orr drew a tract of land for bounty land situated in the south part of the state of New York, and this deponent says that he talked of purchasing of the said William his right to said land. And this deponent further says that he saw the said William Orr during the war, that he was at home frequently during the war and saw him after his discharge in June 1783, and this deponent,

further says that he saw William Carr in 1795 at Sioga Point and that the said William Carr had then been to take possession of the land which he deed from government and further this deponent says that the said Carr has since that time disposed of his said land.
Subscribe and sworn This 9th day of Feb. 1848 before me
Bernard Salisbury
H. W. Taylor
Justice of the Peace Cayuga County.
I certify that I am acquainted with the above named Bernard Salisbury and that his character for truth and veracity is good.
Ledyard Feb 9th 1848.
H. W. Taylor
Justice of the Peace of Cayuga County.
Certificate of the County Clerk of H. W. Taylor's official character & signature dated 12th Feb. 1848.
E. B. Coble.
Extract of a letter from H. W. Taylor.
The old man persisted in saying that he could not write until we got him to try - his first attempt was done well, better than could be expected but the second time he could not make two marks on the same sheet, so he was excited but after waiting a short time he wrote it quite plain. If this is not sufficient, *
* You can draw up one and send it to me as you will know all the facts in both
Yours H. W. Taylor

No. 8.
Copy Affidavit of James Orr.
State of New York County of Monroe } James Orr of the town of Murray in the county of Orleans in said State being duly sworn doth Depose and say - that he is the son of William and Mary Orr that his father the said William Orr drew bounty lands for his services in the revolutionary war, located in the military tract in said State - that he has often heard his said father and mother speak of said bounty lands, and of the sale thereof - that his said father sold the said land soon after he had paid a visit to it upon finding that it was a wilderness, and not then, as he deemed it, of much value - that while on a visit to said land he caught the fever and ague and returned sick - that soon after this he sold the said land and was at the time of said sale away from home - that this depo- nent has heard his said mother say during her life time, that when the said William Orr sold his bounty land, he was away from home in the town of North East in Dutchess County, and she knew no- thing of the sale of said land until after the deed was executed - that no application was made to her to join with her husband in the sale and that she did not withhold her signature from the deed for any other reason than that she was not asked to sign it - but this Depo- nent states that he has very often heard her express her regret that the said land was sold by her husband at all, as it subsequently rose in value, and mention was made of it to her of instituting pro- ceedings after the death of her husband - the said William Orr to recover her right of dower in said premises, but that she refused to do so be- cause the present occupants of the land had purchased it in good faith, and for a valuable consideration, which was not the case with the person who first purchased the land from her said hus- band.
And this deponent further states that he believes that it was at the time of the sale of said bounty land to his said father an uncommon thing to require the signature of the wife to a deed of the bounty land of a revolutionary soldier.
Sworn and subscribed this
21 st day of July 1848 before me
James Orr.
E. H. Bishop. G.P.

Certificate of County Clerk. J. B. Nash of (L S) Official character and signature of J. W. Bispell dated 22 July 1848.
No. 9. Copy Certificate of County Clerk of Cayuga.
State of New York County of Cayuga } I certify that upon examination of the records of the deeds of the military bounty lands on file in this office it appears that the wife joined with the husband in very few instances in the first conveyances.
(L S) In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed the seal of said county this 5 th day of August 1848
No. 10.
Certified copy of deed from Clerk offer of Cayuga County. This indenture made the sixteenth day of February in the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety five, between William Carr of North East Town, County of Dutchess and State of New York, Blacksmith late a soldier in the second New York Regiment in the service of the United States of America during the late war with Great Britain of the first part and John Richardson of the county of Onondaga of the second part witnesseth, &c.
In witness whereof the parties to these presents have inter- changeably set their hands and seals the day and year first above written.
Sealed and delivered in presence of William Pettibon Thomas Poole.
William Carr. (L S)
State of New York } Be it remembered that on the sixteenth day of February in the year one thousand seven hundred and nine- ty five personally appeared before me Richard

By five, personally appeared one Gilbert Livingston Master in Chancery for said State, William Orr, who acknowled- ged that he did sign, seal and deliver the preceding written instrument as his voluntary act and deed; and having inspected the same and having inspected the same, and finding no razures or interlineations therein I do allow the same to be recorded. Sixteenth altered from fifteenth in the date and acknowledged by the grantor.
Gilbert Livingston
Also the word forty in thirteenth line, struck with a pen and the words "one hundred and twenty" interlined in the same place, said and was acknowledged by said grantor after the above alterations were made in the sum of the consideration. I do hope therefore allow the same to be recorded.
Gilbert Livingston
Dutchess County ss William Orr of North East Town, in the said county of Dutchess, Blacksmith, being duly sworn, deposes & saith that he never has in any, directly or indirectly conveyed a certain lot of land known and distinguished by lot number ninety five in the twenty second town called Ulster in the county of Ulster, which became his property for his services as a soldier in the army of the United States of America to any person or persons whatsoever except to Thomas Sears of the town of Fredericktown in said county of Dutchess and further saith not.
William Orr
Sworn before me the
day and year above written
Louis Supper Esq. Pean.
State of New York County of Cayuga ss I hereby certify the foregoing to be a true abstract of a deed and affidavit on file in this office.
L. S. }
In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed the seal of said county this 5th day of August 1848
Themer Coble Clerk

No. 10.
Copy family record of William Orr.
William Orr - Senr. born the 1 st January 1754 Isaac Orr born May 20 th 1777 William Orr Jun. born April 11 th 1781 James Orr born January 17- 1790 Aaron Orr born May 6 1792 Polly Orr born March 12 1794 John Orr born October 6- 1795 Robert Orr born January 2- 1797 Died aged 3 years 1 month 11 days Hannah Orr born August 4 1804 Polly Orr born April 3 rd 1806
No. 12.
Copy affidavit of Priscilla Orr, 2 nd

State of New York County of Genesee ss Priscilla Green, of the town of Bergen in said County being duly sworn, doth depose and say that the time and cir- cumstances of the marriage of her sister Hepsy Salisbury with William Carr are perfectly and distinctly remembered by her, that though she was but a child at the time, yet it was the first ceremony of the kind she had ever attended, and it made an impression upon her mind and she cannot be mistaken as to the fact and the time of said marriage - that on the evening of the day when said mar- riage took place there was a ball given at the house of the de- ponent's father at which this deponent was present - This depo- nent states that she remembers that the marriage took place in the summer season at the time when cherries were ripe - that her said sister was eighteen years of age in a few days after the time of her marriage - that she was eighteen years of age on the twentieth day of August, and that the marriage took place on the second day of said month in the year seventeen hundred and seventy five This deponent states that she is enabled to state that the marriage took place in said year from the fact that her said sister Hepsy was ten years older than this deponent and this deponent states that she was born in the year seventeen hundred and sixty seven as appears by the family record in the bible belonging to this depon- ent which has been kept by her for many years and on which this deponent has relied for the date of the time of her birth. This deponent states that she was about eight years of age at the time of said marriage - This deponent further states that Gideon Salisbury is her brother - that he was a soldier in the war of the revolution, and this deponent knows that the marriage of her said sister Hepsy with the said Carr took place several years before her said brother entered the service as a soldier - This deponent states that she was not present at the ceremony of said marriage though she was present, and took part in the prepa- rations before and the party after said marriage.
Subscribed and sworn to this day 24th day of January - 1848 Before me
Priscilla husb x Green Marr
Samuel Richmond Justice of the Peace.
I hereby certify that I have this day examined the family record referred to above affidavit of Priscilla Green, that said record states

that she was born the third day of March in the year seventeen hundred and sixty seven. That the said record is in a large Bible much worn and has the appearance of having been used for many years - and the said record appears to have been written many years since in said Bible.
Samuel Richmond. Justice of the Peace. No 13-
Copy 2 nd affidavit of Gideon Salisbury
State of New York
County of Yates } Gideon Salisbury of the town of Middletown in said County, being duly sworn doth depose and say - that when a child he resided in the town of North East, Dutch Co. in said State, where his father's family likewise resided - This Deponent states that Hepsy Orr (formerly Hepsy Salisbury) was his sister that she was married to William Orr in the month of August in the year seventeen hundred and seventy five in the said town of North East - that this deponent was present at the ceremony of marriage which was performed by Elder Brachner - a clergyman of that place.
This deponent states that his said sister was about eighteen years of age at the time of her husbands aforesaid marriage and he this deponent was at the time of said marriage between eleven and twelve years of age. This deponent states that the circumstances of the aforesaid marriage are clearly and distinctly remembered by him - that it was the first ceremony of marriage that he had ever witnessed and it made an impression upon his mind which has not been forgotten, and he cannot be mistaken in respect to the time when it occurred - This deponent states that many persons were present at the time of said marriage that on the evening thereafter there was a large party and ball given at the house of this deponent's father Gideon Salisbury on the occasion of the aforesaid marriage and this deponent's said father played upon a violin on that evening.
This deponent states that he is enabled to state the precise time of said marriage by reference to the annexed record which contains as he believes a true statement of his age. That it was copied more than forty years since from an older record in a Bible belonging to him which became torn and worn out, and this record was made by this deponent's son Frederick Salisbury who has been
1. The annexed record here referred to is one filed with the affidavit in the Pension Office

dead more than thirty four years and said record was copied by him several years before his death.
This deponent states that he is enabled to state the year in which said marriage took place from another circumstance viz that it was a little more than one year after the time of the aforesaid marriage that the said William Orr enlisted as a soldier in the continental service and that he enlisted in the year seventeen hundred and seventy six. This deponent further states that his brother Bemanuel Salisbury was at this deponent's house also present at the ceremony of marriage between the said Hopy and the said William Orr. And further says and Sworn and subscribed
to the 25 th day of December
Gideon his Salisbury Mark
1847 Before me
John J. Schenck Justice of the Peace.
I certify that the above named deponent is personally known to me and that he is a man of credibility.
John J. Schenck.
No 14.
Copy Affidavit of Bemanuel Salisbury. 3 rd Aft. his State of New York County of Coeymans ss Bemanuel Salisbury of the town of Schoharie, county and State aforesaid, being duly sworn deposes and saith that he was born on the twenty fifth day of November 1760 and that he will be eighty eight years old on the 25 th November next - and that he was acquainted with William Orr who lived at Helderale Columbia County in the state of New York & that the said William Orr married this deponent's sister Hopy Salisbury in August 1775 - and that the said Orr had three children born before the close of the war. Robert Orr was born in January 1777 which he knows from the fact of living in Orr's family at the time this deponent lived with Orr for the purpose of learning the blacksmith's trade. Gideon Orr was born August 1779 - eleven months before this deponent was married which this deponent remembers distinctly - it being the year of the day's work or hand winter as it was familiarly called and that William Orr Jun. was born April 11 th 1781 - which fact he remembers by referring

to the annexed family record of the births of this deponent's own son who was born April 18 th 1781 - a few days after the birth of William Orr; and he also remembers it by another circumstance - this deponent was called out in "the Militia of Columbia County under Col. Winchester, which was in the fall of after the birth of William Orr and of his own son Robert. and this deponent further says that the annexed record contains a true statement of the time of his own birth and of his wife and children, and that for many years it has been in the family bible for many years and that it has been the only record on which he has relied for the children's birth, and further this deponent says that William Orr had but one wife.
Subscribed and sworn
Bernannuel Salisbury
This 28 th day of June
1848. Before me
H. W. Taylor. Justice of the Peace in and for the County of Cayuga and State of New York.
I certify that I am acquainted with Bernannuel Salisbury and that he is a man of credibility.
H. W. Taylor.
Copy family record of Bernannuel Salisbury
Bernannuel Salisbury was born in the year of our Lord 1760 on the 21 st day of November.
Grace Salisbury was born on the 13 th day of March in the year of our Lord 1762.
Robert Salisbury was born on the 18 th day of April A.D. 1781.
Albert H. Salisbury was born on the 17 th day of December A.D. 1783.
Joseph Salisbury was born on the 22 nd day of August A.D. Mary Salisbury was born on the 4 th day of November A.D. 1788.
Elizabeth Salisbury was born on the 28 th day of February A.D. 1791.
Almeda Salisbury was born on the 25 th day of March 1793 Eleanor L. Salisbury was born on the 4 th day of January

A.D. 1792.
Nathan Salisbury was born on the 13 th day of February A.D. 1800
Levilla Salisbury was born on the 2 nd day of October A.D. 1802.
No. 15.
Copy certificate of credibility of Bernannel and Gideon Salisbury.
The subscribers - citizens of Ledyard Cayuga County New York and neighbors of Bernannel Salisbury of said town, hereby certify that we have known the said Bernannel Salisbury for many years past and that we believe him to be a man of integrity and credibility, whose statements whether under oath or otherwise we should not hesitate to take as true.
Dated at Ledyard, Cayuga County New York July 30 th '48
Jno. L. Cuyler P.M. Aurora
Amaziah Underhill P.M. Ledyard
James Wilber Supervisor Ledyard
A. H. Dennis, Bookkeeper Inep't
Bank Dept. Comptrollers Offic. Albany late of Ledyard N. Y.
Christopher Morgan. Secretary of State
Albany July 24 th - '48
No. 16.
We the undersigned do hereby certify that we were personally acquainted with Gideon Salisbury of the town of Middlesex in the County of Yates and State of New York deceased for a period of at least ten years preceding and up to the time of his death and that he the said Gideon Salisbury sustained a fair character for truth and veracity and was regarded in the neighborhood in which he resided as a credible witness and entitled to credit. We further certify that we severally resided during the said period within two miles of the residence of the said Gideon Salisbury and that we severally had opportunity of becoming acquainted with his general character in the neighborhood of his residence.
Dated Potter - Yates County - N. Y. July 28. 1848.
Chester Loomis

Samuel H. Dooney L. A. Nisweller.
I certify that I am well acquainted with the three gentlemen who have signed the above certificate - that they are persons of high certificate - that they are persons of high character and that their representations are in my opinion entitled to full faith.
Mark H. Sibley
Ex. Mem. A. Repres.
Canaan Vaigau Ontario Co. N. Y. July 28 th 1848
Hospy 622-
Copy Testimony-

Hosp Orr.
Statement of prof. &c

1 The claim of the heirs of Hopy Orr is for the amount due to them in the right of their mother Hopy who died 20 th January 1847 as the widow of William Orr, dec'd, a soldier of the revolution under the act of 4 th July 1836.
The following are the facts as alleged & proven, in respect to the service & marriage.
I
The proof of service -
It is alleged in the declaration of James Orr dated Sept. 30 th 1847 that William Orr of North East Dutch Co. N. Y. was a private & Sergeant in the war of the revolution, that he enlisted in the early part of the war & continued in service till its close - that he belonged to the New York Line, and that he was detached from the ranks to serve for a time among the artificers making cannon & guns in Livingston's Furnace for the American Army, and that for his services in the war he drew 600 acres of bounty land located in the Military Tract in the centre of New York.
In support of this allegation the following testimony was ad- -duced.
1 st The certificate of the Deputy Secretary of State of New York was produced, showing that on the 20 th day of December 1776, William Orr enlisted in the 1 st N. Y. Regt. to serve during war. That he was a Private and Sergeant, and that he continued in service till the close of the war. (See copy marked No. 2.)
2 nd The testimony of Bemanuel Salisbury and Gideon Salisbury - brothers of Mrs Hopy Orr - both soldiers in the war and the last a pensioner of the United States was taken. Each stated his own personal knowledge of the fact that William Orr of North East - the husband of their sister Hopy enlisted in 1776 in Capt. Mendenhall's Co. of the N. Y. Line. That he served from the time of his enlistment to the conclusion of the war - that he was a Sergeant a portion of the time while in service - that on account of his skill as a Blacksmith he was taken from the ranks and was employed while in manufacturing cannon in Livingston's Furnace and that he assisted in constructing the chain placed across the Hudson river during the war. (See copies of their affidavits marked No. 3 & 4.)

The affidavit of Mrs. Priscilla Green - sister of Mrs. Hopy Coss. also sets forth that William Coss, the husband of her sister, was in service as a soldier in the Continental Line during most of the Revolutionary war, that he was reputed to be a Sergeant, and that she heard it said at the time that he was employed for awhile in manufacturing cannon and guns in Livingston's Furnace, and also that he was employed in the construction of the chain thrown across the Hudson River. (See copy of her affidavit marked No 5.)
The case with the foregoing testimony was presented to the Commissioner of Pensions and on the 9 th of December 1847, a report was made requiring proof of the very highest grade to identify the soldier of the N. Y. Line with the husband of Hopy Coss. See copy letter marked No. 1.
To meet this requisition, an original Deed of the county land assigned to William Coss - the soldier of the N. Y. Line, was given in evidence. This deed was not known to be in existence till after the papers were made out and transmitted to the Department. It was discovered among the old papers of William Coss, in the possession of his daughter Mrs. Polly Ward. The deed was made signed, and acknowledged by William Coss in December 1794. It describes him as a resident of North East, Dutchess County New York, as a Blacksmith by occupation and as having been late a soldier in the second N. Y. Regiment, in the army of the United States in the war with Great Britain, and that in consideration of his services as a soldier, the land described in the deed containing six hundred acres had been to him - that the land was located in the county of Tioga in the Town of Illysses and was numbered lot 95 - and that for the consideration of £40 he conveyed the whole lot to Thomas Sears of Fredericktown. The deed was signed by William Coss, acknowledged before Gilbert Livingston Master in Chancery and his wife. This deed thus executed signed and acknowledged appears never to have been delivered and hence it came to be found among William Coss's old papers. (No copy of this deed was made - but the original is on file in the Pension Office)
The commissioner of Pensions in his letter of December 30 th 1847 - acknowledges that the possession of the deed convey-

ing the bounty lands assigned to William Orr affords a strong presumption that that soldier was Mrs. Orr's husband, but from the fact that she did not join her husband in that conveyance, he assumes that she was not his wife at that time, and he requires some explanation of the facts of her omission to join her husband (See letter marked No. 2.)
To meet this requisition of the Commissioner, and remove the presumption against her being his wife in 1794 by her omission to sign the deed of conveyance - the following testimony was taken at various times -
1 st The affidavit of Polly Ward, daughter of Hepsy & William Orr was taken, which states that she had often heard her mother speak of the sale by her husband, William Orr, of his bounty lands, and expressly requests that she did not sign the deed, & that after the death of William Orr, she was advised to institute proceedings to recover her right of dower, but that she refused to do so, for the reason that the land, since the sale by her husband had been sold to bona fide purchasers, who had paid valuable considerations - and who knew nothing of the original transaction by which her husband William Orr had parted with his title for so trifling a consideration. (See copy of her affidavit marked No. 6.)
2 nd The affidavit of Deborah Salisbury was again taken. 3 rd The affidavit of James Orr was taken, who states that he has heard his mother say that at the time of the sale by his father of his bounty lands, he was away from home and that his mother knew nothing of the transaction till after it was all completed, and that she was not asked to sign the deed, and further that at that time the signature of the wife to conveyances was seldom, especially in the sales of soldiers bounty lands. (See copy afft. No. 8.)
4 th The County Clerk of Onondaga gave a certificate that upon examination of the records in his office he found but very few instances in the first conveyance of bounty land where the wife joined with her husband. (See copy certificate marked No. 9.)
5 th The County Clerk of Onondaga County gave a certified copy of a record of a deed and an affidavit thereto annexed on file in his office of which the following is a description - The deed is executed by William Orr, and it describes him as a resident of North East, Dutchess County, New York - as a blacksmith by profession and as late a soldier in the second N.Y. Regiment, &c. - and conveys his bounty lands located in [illegible]
* Taken and upon this point he stated of his own knowledge, that William Orr never joined her in that conveyance - that at one time he entered into negotiation with him for its purchase - and that he visited the land itself with Mrs. Orr - (See copy of his affidavit concluding paragraph marked No. 7.)

and described as Lot No. 95 to John Richardson of Canandaga - The deed is exactly like the one executed to Thomas Sears with the exception of the consideration which is £120. The deed is dated Feb. 1795 - Annexed to this deed is the affidavit of William Orr stating that he had conveyed these premises which had been given to him for his services as a soldier in the late war to no other person except to Thomas Sears of Woodstocktown - See copy certificate marked No - 10 -)
The foregoing testimony has been presented to the Commissioners of Pensions and by various letters he declares it all to be insufficient to identify the William Orr who served in the N. Y. Line and who received bounty land with the husband of Hopy Orr, the mother of the claimant.
In his letter of March 11 th 1848 (See letter No 3.) he declares that the reasons assigned by Mrs. Beard for Mrs. Orr's withholding her signature to the deed are wholly unsatisfactory.
The affidavit of Bemanuel Salisbury respecting his knowledge of William Orr's drawing bounty land is entirely unnoticed. The affidavit of James Orr, where the real reason of Mrs. Orr's not signing the deed is given is entirely unnoticed. The certificate of the County Clerk showing that but few soldiers wives ever signed the deeds with their husbands, is entirely unnoticed. But in his letter of 18 th August 1848. (See letter No. 5.) he requires the original deed on file in the Clerk's office at Hudson, with the original affidavit of Orr as to his conveyance to Sears, and the original Discharge from service as a soldier, to be taken from the files of the Clerk's office, and sent to the Pension office, so that they may be compared with the handwriting of William Orr upon a family Record of the birth of his children. This original deed and affidavit and Discharge are the source of title which those now occupying the land have to the land - and of course the requisition cannot be complied with - and here the case stands so far as the proof of service and identity goes.
II
The proof of marriage.
It is alleged that William Orr was married to Hopy Salisbury in the month of August in the year 1775, by a Baptist Minister.

in the month of August in the year 1775, by a Baptist Minister -
9
named Brauner, in the town of North East Dutchess County N. Y. and that there were several children born before the close of the revolutionary war.
In support of this allegation the following testimony was introduced.
1 st The affidavits of Bemanuel and Gideon Salisbury set forth that each was present at the ceremony of marriage between William Cerr and their sister Hopy Salisbury. That it was in the month of August 1775, before William Cerr's enlistment as a soldier, and the circumstances of the marriage are minutely detailed. They also state that there were three children of William and Hopy Cerr born prior to the close of the revolutionary war. (See copies No. 3, 4, 5.)
2 nd The affidavit of Priscilla Green sets forth that though not present at the solemnization of the marriage of her sister Hopy with William Cerr, she was present and took part in the preparations, services, and in the ceremonies and festivities of the evening following, and she details with minuteness the circumstances connected with the marriage, and that it took place on the 2 nd day of August 1775. She also states that there were three children born prior to the close of the war, and relates that on the morning of the birth of one of them viz. Gideon Cerr, she gathered strawberries & brought them to Mrs. Cerr. (See copy marked No. 4.)
3 rd An old family Record of the birth of William Cerr and his children in his own hand writing, written on the back of a book cover was introduced. (See copy marked No. 11.)
But all this testimony in support of the marriage, the Commission of Pensions declares is insufficient to establish it. In his letter of 9 th December 1847. (See copy letter No 1) he says the entries on the back of the old book cover do not bear that evidence of age would entitle it to be received - and he requires record or documentary evidence, or the testimony of those only who can refer to some written memorandum to show they are not mistaken upon the point to which they testify to be adduced - As record evidence of the marriage, besides the family Record, could not be procured, the testimony of Bemanuel and Gideon Salisbury and of Priscilla Green was taken again - to answer the requisition that they must refer to some old memorandum. Priscilla Green and Gideon Salisbury referred to old records of their own births in their papers - and stated that

they were able to fix the time of the marriage of William and Hopy Borr by their remembrance of their own ages at that time - and Ben- gl -jamin Salisbury in his second  third affidavit wrote his own name and furnished his own family record in his own handwriting, taken from an ancient Bible, and containing the record of his own - his wife's and his children's births - and he swore to the time of the marriage of William and Hopy Borr, by reference to that record, and further that they had children born prior to the close of the war, which he knew by the fact of the birth of his own first child, named Robert Salisbury, who was born on the 18 th Day of April 1784 - just ten  seven days after the birth of a child of William and Hopy Borr - named William Borr Jr. who was born 11 th of April 1784 - that he was living in the family of William Borr at that time, and could not be mistaken as to his knowledge of the time of the birth of William Borr Jr. See copies aff ds No 12. (13. 14)
But the Commissioner of Pensions declares that all this tes- timony is insufficient to establish the date of the marriage of William & Hopy Borr - (See copies letters March 3 rd 1848 & July 11 th 1848 - Marked Nos. 3 & 4 -)
In his letter of July 11 th to Hon. C. B. Holmes he says if he or any member of Congress has personal knowledge of B. and G. Salisbury, and could testify to their credibility as witnesses, then their testimony as respects the marriage would be received.
To comply with this requisition a certificate signed by several promi- nent men of the town where Benjamin Salisbury resides and also signed by Hon. Christopher Morgan - Secretary of State, was procured. They said that from a personal knowledge of B. Salisbury they would not hesitate to take his statement whether under oath or otherwise, as true. (See copy No. 15)
A certificate signed by several prominent men of the town where Gideon Salisbury resided, whose credibility was endorsed by Hon. J. Mark H. Sibley - was produced. This certificate set forth their per- sonal knowledge of Gideon Salisbury and their confidence in his integrity and credibility. (See copy No. 16.)
But the Commissioner of Pensions utterly disregards these certificates, although fully complying with his requisitions, and in his letter of 18 th August. (See copy No. 5.) says that as the evidence respecting the marriage of W m and Hopy Borr does not show with certainty that it took place before the conclusion of the war, it is

not satisfactory to establish its consummation in the manner required by the act of 4 th July 1836.
And here ends the proof the case rests so far as respects the proof of marriage.
Comments.
It is urged that the testimony adduced is amply sufficient to establish beyond a doubt, the service of William Orr and his identity as Mrs Orr's husband.
1 st The positive declarations of the witnesses, Bemanuel and Sideon Salisbury, and Mrs Dren should suffice if there were no stronger testimony. Parol testimony from those having personal knowledge of service, has under all the acts been deemed sufficient. The regulations under the act of 7 th June 1832 require the testimony of two witnesses where the records themselves deny the service. But when the records show service, no testimony was required, but only the declarations under oath of the soldier himself, and then if it was found that his statement was sustained by the records no further proof was required. But if the rolls denied the service, then a presumption was raised against the applicant which could be removed by the testimony of two witnesses having personal knowledge of the service.
But in this case no presumption can be raised by the omission of the name upon the records. It is not denied that a William Orr served throughout the war and drew county land. The records show both these facts, and the testimony of the witnesses clearly shows that the husband of their sister was the soldier who served and who received the land. There is no possibility of the witnesses being mistaken upon the point - all of them were related to him, all resided near his family - and one of them, Bemanuel Salisbury, was during a portion of the time he was in service, an inmate in his family. It is not possible that their sister's husband could have been a Continental soldier serving during the war of several years duration, without their knowledge, nor could he not have been a soldier and they be ignorant of the fact - One of the witnesses, Sideon Salisbury was a soldier in the war, though not of the line, and he testifies to his personal knowledge, that Mr Orr, his sister's husband was then in service and

and was employed in constructing the chain across the Hudson Riv- er - The credibility and intelligence of these witnesses is strongly certified by officers before whom they appeared, and by several pro- minent persons known at Washington, and their testimony cannot be discarded without rejecting all parol testimony whatever. The Commissioner of Pensions is daily requiring testimony from those who served with or who have personal knowledge of the service of soldiers to identify them with the husband or father of those who cla- im under them; and if such testimony is admitted at all, it cannot be disregarded in this instance without at once overriding both principle and precedent. As respects the allegation and proof of Mrs. Orr's husband being detached from the ranks to serve in the Corps of Artifi- cers constructing cannon - it may be remarked that it may have been the fact that he did so serve awhile and yet his name not app- ear on the roll of Artificers - He did not enlist as an Artificer but as a soldier and the length of time of his service as an artificer may not have been sufficient to have caused a change of the name to be made from the rolls of soldiers to that of the artificers.
It is a fact that those soldiers who were mechanics were often called upon to serve for short periods as artificers. There is a case reported in the Supreme Court of this State respecting the title to a lot of county land in the Military Tract which was disputed, and testimony was adduced to prove the service and the i- dentity of the soldier, and among others that of Dennis G. Lansing who swore that the soldier served in the same company with himself, during the war except when he was occasionally detached from the ranks to serve in the corps of Artificers. (See 18 th John. Rep. page 68 Pack- son vs Root.)
2 nd It is urged that even if the parol testimony is insufficient the original deed conveying the bounty land is conclusive evidence that that soldier was no other than Mrs. Hopy Orr's husband.
It is admitted that William Orr, the soldier, drew bounty land. It is known that none but the "main men" were entitled to 600 acres of land, and it is known that the fact of a man's draw- ing this land is conclusive that he was a soldier.
Then this original deed shows that William Orr of North East a Blacksmith and the husband of Hopy Orr drew this land. It is made by him, acknowledged by him, and the instrument per-

This made by him, acknowledged by him, and the instrument per-
-fected, but never delivered, and ever since that time it remained in William Orr's possession until his decease. Since his death it has remained in the possession of his widow and daughter, and was evidently discovered among the old papers after the claim with the parol testimony had been sent to Washington. It is an old, soiled, and much worn document, though perfectly legible.
This document could not have had an existence, much less could it have been in the possession of the family of William and Hopy Orr, if he had not been the man who drew the county land, it cannot be denied that he would not have drawn the land if he had not been the soldier. And the Commissioner himself appeared satisfied that the deed showed that the maker of it was the soldier, and he at first required an explanation only to show why Mrs. Hopy Orr, if his wife, then omitted to sign it.
But to remove all doubts whatever, proof was adduced from the records in the Clerk's office in Cayuga Co. that this same William Orr of North East, blacksmith, in a few months after the execution of this original deed to Thomas Sears of Fredrickstown executed another deed of the same lot to John Richardson of Onondaga Co. and in that deed described himself as late a soldier in the M. G. Line, and that for his services as such soldier this lot of land had been awarded to him. And that deed he swears in an affidavit annexed to that deed, he swears that he was such soldier, and that he had once before conveyed this same lot to Thomas Sears of Fredrickstown, and this deed to Richardson is the source of the title of those now occupying that land. Here is a distinct declaration, under oath that he had sold the land before to Thomas Sears, and of course the deed presented by the claimant is the one to which he alludes. It can be no other, and the affidavit shows conclusively that both deeds were made by one person, and that person the husband of Hopy Orr. But further proof appears beyond a question by comparison of the signature to the deed to Sears with the original family record of the wills of William Orr's children, made by himself, and in his own handwriting, that both were made by the same person. and not to be mistaken His handwriting is peculiar. Particular attention and the closest scrutiny of both is asked to the inspection of it is desired. No person can be mistaken as to the identity of the one with the other. The Commissioner himself is not and cannot be of the own opinion that

* 1795 - the original deeds given by the soldiers were required to be deposited for inspection in the Clerk's office of Onondaga County, and subsequently by them were removed to the clerk's office of Cayuga County.
Yet in his last letter, he requires the original deed to Richardson, with the original deed & affidavit of Don, and the original discharge filed with it, to be sent to the Pension Office. This requisition is useless, unnecessary and impossible to be complied with. It is unnecessary because, it would show nothing more than is already shown by the proof on file. The professed object of this requisition is to compare the signature to the deed, affidavit, &c. with the handwriting of the original family record. But the deed to Richardson &c. is with the discharge of the one before given to Don, which is on file, and to compare the family record, would answer precisely the same purpose as it would to have the original - the signature of that deed to Richardson and its accompaniments sent on to be compared. Both deeds were given by the same person, and one of them is already before the Commissioner of Pensions. It is impossible to comply with his requisition, because to do so would render both the Clerk who permitted the deed to be taken from the files of his office, and the person who did it, liable to an indictment, for a crime. The laws of the State of New York declare it to be a crime, the penalty of which is five years imprisonment for the Clerk to steal, destroy, or withdraw from the files of his office, the records or papers which belong to it. The deed to Richardson, is the basis on which all the subsequent titles to the land rest, and to take that deed from the files of the office, while it would answer no purpose, not already answered by the proof on file, would make those who did it, guilty of the commission of a crime. By the laws of New York passed April 8th. *
It will be observed that William Orr in his affidavit annexed to the deed to Richardson swears he was a soldier and that the land was given him in consideration of his services. Now if he were himself alive, and had applied for a pension under act of 7th of June 1832, he would have been required to do no more than to make a declaration, under oath, substantially the same as that affidavit, and he would have been placed on the roll. This affidavit then is sufficient for him, it is contended, should avail to establish the claim for his widow and children. It is entitled even to more weight than a declaration made by Mr. Orr himself, for a pension would be, for the reason, that in the declaration he would have a direct interest in the result, whereas, while the affidavit sets forth substantially the same facts, there is no personal interest depending which could induce him to misstate the facts.
It will be observed that the Commissioner in his letter of 4th March
1848, says, that the reasons assigned by Mrs. Ward for Mrs. Hoppy Orr's not signing the deed conveying the bounty land are wholly

18 th 18, says, that the reasons assigned by Mrs Ward for Mrs Hoppy Cerr's not signing the deed conveying the bounty land are wholly unsatisfactory, and then he goes on to remark that because she did not institute proceedings after her husband's death to recover her right of dower in the bounty land, therefore she was not his wife in 1794 - Upon looking at Mrs Ward's affidavit it will be seen that she assigned no reason whatever for her mother's withholding her name - She simply states that she did not sign the deed and she states no reason why she did not - She does state that her mother regretted that the land was sold at all, because it afterwards became valuable, and she does state that her mother was advised to commence suit to recover her right of dower, and she also states that her mother refused to do so because the present occupants of the land had purchased it for valuable consideration & were ignorant of the transaction by which her husband had parted with his title for a trifle - And this it is urged, is reason enough for not instituting legal proceedings without denying or doubting that her right existed at all - Even if this reason did not exist it does not follow that she was not his wife in 1794 - The remarks of the Commissioner have no application at all upon the point, for Mrs Ward assigned no reason for her mother's omission to sign the deed.
But the affidavit of James Cerr in which he states that at the time of the execution of the deed his father was away from home and his mother knew nothing of the sale, contains a real & substantial reason, and the certificate of the county clerk of Cayuga Co. - setting forth that but few of the soldiers wives joined their husbands at all in conveyances of bounty lands, sufficiently refels the presumption which the Commissioner seeks to raise in this instance by the omission - And this affidavit and this certificate he sees fit not to take any notice of whatever. But it may be remarked if it is proven that the marriage of William & Hoppy Cerr took place twenty years prior to the execution of this deed, no reason need be demanded why she did not sign it, and it will be sufficient to show only that the deed was made by her husband, which it is believed had already been done.
II
It is contended that the marriage of these parties is satisfactorily proven.
She answered in constructing the claim placed across the Hudson river during the war. (See copies of their affidavits marked No. 3 & 4.)

It is contended that the marriage relation between William Cox and his wife Hopy, prior to the close of the revolutionary war is sufficiently proven by the exhibition of the original family record of the birth of their children.
It is a record in the hand writing of William Cox himself made upon the back of an old book cover, and bears on its face indisputable marks of antiquity and genuineness. It has the appearance of being made 40 or 50 years ago, and no pen has touched it since. It was the only record kept by him or his family of the birth of his children, and for a great number of years was the only evidence on which they relied for the dates of their respective births. The children have been familiar with it from their earliest recollections, and the only records kept by them of their births have been transcripts made by themselves of this same original record. James Cox, one of the children, made some fifteen years since a copy of this record for his own use, and kept it until he sent it to the Pension Office with the papers in support of the present claim. When he sent the copy, he stated that the original was not in his possession at that time, but was with his mother's papers at the residence of his sister Mrs. Ward.
Family records bearing much fewer marks of age than this, have been received by the Commissioner as sufficient proof of the marriage relation. The case of the heirs of Sybil Conant, widow of Israel Conant, of Elizabeth Chapman, widow of Joseph Smith, of Lydia Potter, widow of Lemuel Potter & others may be cited as instances where family records not so ancient as this by many years, have been deemed sufficient.
Although these cases have no connexion with this and as the Commissioner says in his letter of Dec. 20 th 1847, reference to them cannot be had, yet when the object is to show what marks of age it is necessary for a record to exhibit to be admitted in evidence, no good reason can be perceived why they should not be referred to, to show that they bear no more indications of antiquity than the record presented in this case.
2 d The oral testimony of the true witnesses of the marriage of William Cox to Hopy Salisbury in August 1775 and of the birth of their children by them prior to the close of the revolutionary war is amply sufficient to establish the marriage under the act of 4 th July 1836.

In an opinion given by the Attorney General, Mr Butler, in 1836, which may be found on the 72 nd page of Pension Laws of 1840 he says - "that in the State of New York marriage, so far as its validity is concerned is considered as a civil contract: that no formal solemnization by a minister of religion, or by any particular officer is requisite, and that a contract of marriage entered into by parties capable of contracting, in the presence of an officer in camp, or any other competent witness is as valid as if made in facie ecclesia or in the presence of a civil magistrate. This was, during the revolutionary war and yet continues to be the law of the State."
In the present instance the marriage was formally solemnized in the presence of many witnesses by a minister of the Gospel of the Baptist denomination. But no record of it was ever made, or if made is now in existence - It is known that records of marriages in the state of New York were rarely made at that time. They were not required by law to be made, and those which were, were private records made by the clergymen, of marriages solemnized by themselves.
But in this case there are three competent witnesses, two of whom were present at the ceremony of marriage, whose testimony is positive and unequivocal as to the fact and the time, and also as to the birth of their children of the parties prior to the close of the revolutionary war.
This testimony before any other tribunal would be deemed sufficient to establish the marriage - But the Commissioner under-takes to say that these witnesses cannot be relied on to state with accuracy any ordinary event after the lapse of seventy years - He states this with no personal knowledge of the witnesses, and in the face of the strong certificates of the officers who took their affidavits and others having personal knowledge, of their integrity, intelligence and remarkable mental and physical activity. If it is in his power to reject the testimony of respectable witnesses on the ground that they state events which occurred seventy years ago, he may with the same reason reject that of others who relate events which occurred forty or even twenty years ago, for it is known that some persons can remember events after the lapse of seventy, better than others after the lapse of twenty years. It is known too that aged people recollect with more distinctness and accuracy the occurrences of their early youth than of mature life. Daily occur-

-ance have a more permanent impression upon their memory - events which at any other period of life are common and ordinary, at that season, are to them of great importance and fasten themselves upon their memory. And in this instance whatever it may have been to others, the marriage of their sister was not an ordinary occurrence to the witnesses, at least it was not so ordinary as to preclude the possibility of their remembering it accurately. True. The marriage was a public one, and extensive preparations had been made for it - a large party assembled at the house of the father of the witnesses in the evening following to celebrate it. All the circumstances are represented as extraordinary and unusual, and were calculated to make an indelible impression upon the memory of those who for the first time found themselves witnesses of them - and two of the witnesses declare that it was the first ceremony of the kind they had ever seen. No scene could have been more imposing to them than the public marriage of their sister - the large party gathered at their father's the evening after, and their fathers mingling in the gayeties and contributing their talents by playing upon the violin - were scenes they could not forget. Nor is it believed, did there any other event occur, during the entire period of their youth more extraordinary and unusual to them than this.
The fact that one man served in the same company, or Regiment with another for an entire campaign in the revolutionary war, is an occurrence less extraordinary or remarkable to him than was the marriage of these parties, to these witnesses. And yet as before remarked, the Commissioner is daily in the habit of practice of demanding  receiving proof from those who served in the war of the to identify the soldier who served, with the husband or father of those who claim. But on the principle here laid down, such testimony should be rejected, for it relates to events occurring seventy years since - and that length of time renders a person incapable of telling the truth with certainty. The rule has no foundation in justice or common sense. It is not the province of the Commissioner to say that seventy years renders a witness incompetent to testify correctly, when his credibility, intelligence and mental and physical vigor are certified to by men of the highest respectability, who have personal knowledge of him.
But the Commissioner while deciding that the unsupported testimony of these witnesses could not be received, made two conditions

But the Commissioner while deciding that the unsupported testimony of these witnesses could not be received, made two conditions either of which, if complied with, would remove the objection to the admission of their testimony to the admission of their testimony. - These conditions were that the witnesses should refer to some written memorandum to show that they were not mistaken upon the point to which they testified - and further that some person should be able to testify to the birth of Mrs Orr's children, or that the children themselves should be able to produce a family record of their own birth. - See letter. March 24 th 1881.
These conditions were fully complied with and fairly met. - Priscilla Orr in her second affidavit refers to an old family record in her possession, in which the date of her own birth is entered as having taken place on the third day of March 1767 - and she states that she knows her sister Hopy's marriage took place on the 2 nd August 1775 - for her sister Hopy was ten years older than herself, and her marriage occurred on the second day of August, a few days previous to her eighteenth birth day, which came on the 20 th - that she was herself but eight years of age at that time - but especially does she know that her sister's marriage took place but a few days previous to her eighteenth birth day, and that she was ten years older than herself.
Gideon Salisbury makes a similar reference to a record of his own birth and the time of his sister's marriage, and further that the marriage was several years prior to his service as a soldier, and also prior to William Orr's enlistment. But Barnamuel Salisbury goes further even than this, and furnishes the very strongest proof in support of his own testimony. He brings to the aid of his recollection his own family record made by himself, many years ago in which is recorded the birth of his first child. - He knows that William Orr's marriage took place previous to his own, and he knows that one of his children was born in 1779 - Eleven months before his own marriage - and that another son was born April 11 - 1781 - which he was positively certain of, because his own son Robert was born on the 18 th of the same month and year - and the original record presented with his affidavit, and now on file in the Pension office, shows the fact. More positive and unequivocal testimony to fortify his the original statement could not be furnished.
The birth of his own child is certainly not an ordinary event with

him, nor the date of it likely to be forgotten - and the birth of his sister's child, in whose family he was then living, happening also in  before after a few days after  at the birth of his own, would be fastened with equal tenacity upon his memory -
Here are the two requisitions of the Commissioner fairly answered - either of which he declared would be sufficient to establish the marriage. 1 st The testimony of respectable and intelligent individuals based on written record & 2 nd The testimony of respectable persons who could testify to the birth of Mrs. Lee's children -
But what is his decision upon this point - He utterly disregards this testimony although in exact conformity with his requisitions without assigning any reason, says it is not sufficient to establish the marriage - See letter of 11 th July '48 -
Then he makes another distinct proposition, which is this: If any member of Congress can give a certificate of the credibility of B and G. Salisbury their testimony upon the marriage would suffice.
This requisition is also answered by certificates which would satisfy any mind not predisposed to reject all proof and to resist all conviction - Proof comes before him of the highest character in support of the credibility of these witnesses - yet he discards it all and utterly refuses to abide by his own decisions - If he did not mean to receive such testimony why did he require it to be given? If he did mean to receive it, why does he refuse it when presented - There is a capriciousness exhibited throughout the whole of his decisions unworthy of a sensible mind -
The only reply he makes to the testimony last offered is "that the evidence as regards the marriage does not show with certainty that the marriage took place before the conclusion of the war" &c. (See letter of 18 th August)
Either the Commissioner has never examined the papers or else he stated what he knew was untrue in fact - for there is no fact in the whole testimony stated with more precision and certainty or reiterated more frequently, than the time of the marriage of William and Mary Lee, and the birth of their children before the close of the war. This is stated in every affidavit - This the Commissioner knew, or he knew nothing about the case - he could not have examined a single affidavit and have been ignorant of the fact -
But it served his purpose to raise an objection to the admis.

ion of the claim, which has from the start, appeared to be the sole object in he had in view. He appears to have set out with the determination to reject the claim, and his main aim, throughout the case has been, to make the most unreasonable requisitions, and to raise every objection to the testimony that could be devised; and when his requisitions have been fully met, he has disregarded them entirely, and made others still more unreasonable - and when no reason could be brought against the testimony, he has discarded it without assigning any reason whatever, or declared it to be deficient in precision when no deficiency existed - Testimony of the very highest character - record, parole, and circumstantial has been adduced to prove both the service of marriage, and all of it has been over-ridden and pronounced by the Commissioner to be unsatisfactory - He has laid down rules never before heard of or adopted by any tribunal, and which have no foundation in justice or common sense, and he has not adhered even to them - He has been consistent only in his inconsistency and steadfast only in one purpose, not to allow the claim at all - All the objections and requirements which have been raised in every stage of the case are but a figure of quoter - figures entirely unworthy of a man making professions to reason or justice, and interposed only to sustain a foregone conclusion to deny the claim altogether.
A.B. A single other circumstance may be mentioned although no notice of it has been taken or objection raised by the Commissioner - It will be observed that in the two deeds William Orr is described as late a Soldier in the 2 d N.Y. Regiment, although and the certificate of the Secretary of State shows he enlisted in the 1 st N.Y. Regt. But the aff ts of Orr to the deed does not state which regiment he served in but only the fact of his service - In the case of Jacob Iron or Root 18 th Johns Rep. page 63, above referred to, the soldier in the deed given by him described himself as a soldier in Col. Lamb's Regt. of Artillery whereas the record showed he was in Col. Van Schaack's Regt. of Infantry but the Land Court

decided that the words "Col. Saml's Regt of Artillery" might be rejected as surplusage because the lot of land was correctly descri- bed & the records showed that the same soldier served & drew the land
This authority would have weight before any other court. This authority is given to be used in case the commissioner raises an obj- ection because of the discrepancy.
Hosy Oct.
Statement of proof. 4c

State of New York
County of Orleans ss James Orr of the town of Murray being duly sworn doth depose & say that he believes himself to be fifty eight years of age & that he is the son of William Orr & Hepsy Orr - formerly Hepsy Salisbury - This deponent states that his father & mother were both natives of the town of North East County of Dutchess in said State, and that the parents of this deponent's said father & mother likewise resided in the said town of North East and their farms adjoined each other - This deponent states upon information & belief derived from his said father & mother that soon after the close of the revolutionary war they removed from the said town of North East to the town of Hottledown (or Hillsdale) in the county of Columbia where they resided for some eight or ten years & where this deponent was born & that they moved back again to the said town of North East and that when they came back to the said town of North East to reside this deponent was two years of age -
This deponent states that he has heard his said father say that he drew a lot of bounty land located in the central part of New York for his services as a soldier in the revolutionary war - That sometime after the said war closed he visited the said land which was then a wilderness that he caught a fever & ague and came home sick - that he regarded the land

as being of but little value & he after- wards sold it for a trifling con- -sideration. This deponent states that he has himself been on the premises above mentioned which belonged to his said father.
This deponent states his belief that his said mother did not join his said father in the deed conveying the said land - that he has often heard his said mother express great regret that his said father parted with his title to said land and that she was displeased with him for having sold it for so small a consideration & that he ought to have kept the said land for the benefit of their children - that as much as the land subsequently rose in value this deponent has heard his said mother say that if the said land had been kept in the possession of his said father it would have been of great benefit to their children. And since the death of this deponent's said father, he has heard his said mother sometimes speak of instituting legal proceedings to recover her right of dower in said premises which had not been assigned or disposed of when the said land was sold -
This deponent further states his firm belief that his said father was never married to any other person than the said Hasty & that the said Hasty was never married to any other person than the said William Orr - and that if there

had ever at any time been a second marriage of either of said parties this deponent verily believes he would have heard some mention made of it - that Gideon Orr - the oldest living child of this deponent's said parents he has always believed & still believes to be his own Brother and has so regarded him - and this deponent has always believed there was a difference of about eleven years between the his age & that of his said Brother Gideon that he this deponent was fifty eight years of age on the 17 th day of this present month and his said Brother was sixty eight years old on the month of may last -
James Orr
Sworn & subscribed to this 20 th day of January 1848.
Before me - The words "The deponent states that he has himself been on the premises above mentioned which belonged to his said father" erased before signing
Justice of the Peace

State of New York
771 county of Orleans fr. I Elijah Dana clerk of said county do hereby certify that William White is a Justice of the Peace in for said county duly elected & qualified - that his term of office commenced on the first day of January 1846 and will expire on the 31 st day of Dec 1849 and that his signature within written is genuine. In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my official seal this 14 th day of February 1848.
Elijah Dana Clerk
Attest of James Orr.

Widow Salisbury aft. 1.

State of Vermont County of Yates 3/3
Gideon Salisbury of the town of Middlesex in said county being duly sworn doth depose & say that when a child he resided in the town of North East Dutchess County in said States where his father's family likewise resided. This deponent states that Hoppy Orr formerly Hoppy Salisbury was his sister - that she was married in the town to William Orr in the month of August in the year seventeen hundred and seventy five in the said town of North East - that this deponent was present at the ceremony of marriage which was performed by Elder Bradner a clergyman of that place.
This deponent states that his said sister was about eighteen years of age at the time of her aforesaid marriage and he this deponent was at the time of said marriage between eleven & twelve years of age - This deponent states that the circumstances of the aforesaid marriage are clearly & distinctly remembered by him - that it was the first ceremony of marriage that he had ever witnessed and that it made an impression upon his mind which has not been forgotten and he cannot be mistaken in respect to the time when it occurred - This deponent states that many persons were present at the time of said marriage.

that on the evening thereafter there was a large party & ball given at the house of this deponent's father, Gideon Salisbury, on the occasion of the aforesaid marriage, and this deponent's said father played upon a violin at the upon that evening -
This deponent states that he is enabled to state the precise time of said marriage by reference to the annexed record which contains as he believes a true statement of his age - that it was copied more than forty years since from an older record in a bible belonging to him which became torn & worn out and this record was made by this deponent's son Frederick Salisbury who has been dead more than thirty four years since and said record was copied by him several years before his death -
This deponent further states that he is enabled to state the year in which said marriage occurred from another circumstance, vis that it was a little more than one year after the time of the aforesaid marriage that William  one the said William Orr enlisted as a soldier in the Continental service and that he enlisted in the year seventeen hundred & seventy six - This deponent, further states that his Brother

Barnamel Salisbury was as this de- ponent believes also present at the ceremony of marriage between the said Hops & the said William Orr - And further says not.
Sworn & sub. -scribed this 20 th day of Decem- ber 1847.
his Gideon R. Salisbury mark
I am I Schenck justice of the Peace for Yates County I certify that the above named deponent is personally known to me and that he is a man of credibility
I am I Schenck Justice of the Peace for Yates County N York
State of New York County of Yates ss: I hereby certify that John J Schenck before whom the above affidavit of Gideon Salisbury under date 20 th Dec. 1847 was on that day an acting Justice of the Peace in and for the said County elected from and duly authorized by the laws of said State to act as such: That I am well acquainted with his hand writing and only believe that his signature to the first of the said affidavit and also to the above Certificate of Probity subscribed as a genuum.
In Testimony whereof I have here unto subscribed my name and affixed the seal of said County my official seal the 11 th day of Feby 1848, R R Fargo Clerk

State of New York
County of Orleans ss James Orr of the town of Murray in said County being duly sworn doth depose say in explanation of so much of his declaration made on the 30 th day of September last as relates to the family record of the birth of his parents & their children that when said declaration was made, the original record from which the transcript referred to therein was taken was not in his possession, and it was his impression at the time that the transcript was a correct copy of the original. But this deponent states that he has since seen the original record referred to and that it is hereto annexed. And this deponent states that when the said transcript was made his mother the said Mary Orr was present and gave to this deponent a verbal statement of the time of her birth & this deponent put the statement into the copy of said record he was making, as it appears annexed to his said declaration.
This deponent further states that upon examining the original record hereto annexed he finds that he made two or three mistakes in the day of the birth of his father's said children, but it was his belief until a recent examination was had that of said original record that the transcript he made was an accurate one.
This deponent further states that the annexed record was made by his father William Orr and and is in his own hand writing, to this deponent's knowledge that it was made by his said father many years ago, and this deponent has from his earliest recollection as a child been familiar with said record.

.. I have seen it oftentimes that since the death of his said father the said record was kept by this deponent's said mother the said Hepsy Orr & that since her death the said record has been in the possession of this deponent's sister Polly Ward of Amnsville Oneida Co. in said State - James Orr
I was & subscribed to this 22 d day of October 1847. Before me
Wm White Justice
I hereby certify that the above named James Orr is personally known to me that he is a person of integrity in whose statement above made full confidence may be re- posed -
Wm White
State of New York
County of Orleans ss Polly Ward of the town of Amnsville Oneida Co in said state being duly sworn doth depose & say that she is the daughter of William & Hepsy Orr - that her father the said William Orr died on or about the eighteenth day of March in the year eighteen hundred & twenty two 1822 - This deponent states that she believes her said father was a soldier in the war of the revolution and that he drew bounty

land for his services in said war.
This deponent further states that she heard her mother the said Hasty for say that the said William Orr sold the booby land which he received for his services in said war for and received a in payment thereof an old horse - and that after the death of the said William Orr this deponents said mother often spoke of instituting proceedings to obtain her right of dower in said booby land which had not been assigned or disposed of when the said William Orr sold the said land.
This deponent further states that for nearly twenty years prior to the death of the said Hasty Orr she resided at with deponent and that she died at her house.
This deponent further states that the annexed record was kept by her said mother while she resided with this deponent - that since her death it has been in this deponents possession and that it is the original family record made by this deponents said father many years ago and is in his own handwriting as this deponent well knows and that from her earliest recollections it was kept by her said father as his family record to which this deponents said father & mother referred for the date of the birth of their children.
This deponent further states that after sometime after the close of the revolutionary war - her said father

I mother removed from Dutchess County to the County of Columbia in said State and after that to the County of Schobarie in said State where her said father died - Polly Ward
Sworn & subscribed this 22 d day of October 1847 - Before me -
Wm White Justice
I hereby certify that the above named Polly Ward is personally known to me & that she is a person of credibility.
Wm White
State of New York Orleans County p
I Elijah Dana Clerk of said County do hereby certify that William White before whom the foregoing instrument in writing was proved or acknowledged, was at the time of taking the same a Justice of the Peace in and for said County authorized by law to take the same & that I am well ac- quainted with the hand writing of said William White & truly believe the signature above will -in purporting to be his, to be genuine
Given under my hand and the seal of said County Oct. 20 th 1847. Elijah Dana Clerk

State of New York Oneida County ss
Garris J Barr being duly sworn deposes and says that he is the Clergyman who officiated at the funeral of Mrs Hoby Orr who died at Annsville in the County of Oneida on the 20th day of Jany 1844
Subscribed & sworn before me this 11th day of October 1847
G. J. Barr
State of New-York, — Clerk's Office, Oneida County, ss.
I, Patrick Mahon, Clerk of the said County, Do Certify, That Julius C. Thorne whose name is subscribed to the Certificate of the proof or acknowledgement of the annexed instrument, and thereon written, was, at the time of taking such proof or acknowledgement, a Justice of the Peace for said county, dwelling in said county, and sworn and duly authorized to take the same. And further, that I am well acquainted with the hand writing of such Justice and verily believe that the signature to the certificate of said proof or acknowledgement, is genuine.
In Testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and affixed the Seal of the said county, this Eighteenth day of October 1847. (Patrick Mahon Clerk.
I am requested by Mr Ward to forward to you the above affidavit together with the inclosed Family record in answer to yours of the 30th ult.
Yours truly Julius C Thorne

State of New York Oneida County ss
Jarris J Barr being duly sworn deposes and says that he is the Clergyman who officiated at the funeral of Mrs Hasty Orr who died at Annsville in the County of Oneida on the 20th day of Jany 1844
Subscribed & sworn before me this 11th day of October 1847 Julius C Thorne J.P.
J. J. Barr
Salem Oct 11th 1847
Sir
I am requested by Mr Ward to forward to you the above affidavit together with the inclosed Family record in answer to yours of the 30th ult.
Yours truly Julius C Thorne

A tale of New York Cayuga County ss
Bernard Salisbury of the town of Ledyard in said County being Sworn who deponeth and says that he is eighty Eight years old the twenty first day of Nov last and that he was acquainted with William Orr who married Hovey Salisbury in August in the year 1775 and that he was present at their Marriage that they were married in the town of Hillsdale in the County of Dutchess by a Man named Elder Brad and that they had three Children born previous to the close of the war and that their names were Robert Gideon and William. Robert Orr was born in January 1777 Gideon Orr was born in August 1779 William Orr was born April 1781. This deponent further says that William Orr was a Soldier in the Revolutionary War that this deponent was acquainted with the said William Orr at the time of his enlistment and that he enlisted in Capt Wendalls Company to serve during the war and this deponent further says that the said Orr was a Sergeant a part of the time and a part of the time the said Orr was employed in Liviston furna- cating Cannon for the Continental Army and he further says that the said William Orr was in the service of the government during the war and until the war was closed and this deponent says the said William Orr enlisted in December 1776. and further this deponent says not
Subscribed & sworn before me this 22 d day of Oct 1847
H W Taylor
Judge of the peace
Bernard Salisbury Mark

I Certify that I am acquainted with Bernard Salisbury the person named in the within Affidavit and know him to be a person of truth and Credibility
Sedgwick Oct 22 1847
H. W. Taylor
Justice of the peace of the town of Green
State of New York Clerk's Office Cayuga County ss,
Ebenezer P. Babb Clerk of said County do hereby certify that H. W. Taylor Esquire whose name is subscribed to the certificate of proof or acknowledgment of the foregoing instrument was at the time of taking the same a justice of the peace in & for said County duly authorized to take it and that I am well acquainted with his hand writing & truly believe that his signature to the said certificate is genuine
In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my Official Seal this 28 th day of October 1847
Ebenezer P. Babb Clerk Cayuga County

Genesee County Clerk's office { S.S.
I hereby Certify that Samuel Richmond is a Justice of the Peace as above and that the foregoing Certificate/affidavit to be true is genuine
In testimony whereof I have hereunto affixed my seal of office and subscribed my name this third day of November in the Year 1847 J. C. Holden Clerk
on the second day of August in the year seventeen hundred and seventy five (1775) and that her said sister was eighteen on the twentieth day of the said month & year.
This deponent states that the circum- -stances of the marriage of her said sister are perfectly & distinctly recollected - that the said Hasty & the said Orr left the house of this deponent's father on the morning of the day that the marriage took place
by his said father. deponent has from his earliest recollection as a child been familiar with said record

State of New York County of Greene Sp Priscilla Green of the town of Bergen in said county aged eighty years in March last past being duly sworn doth depose & say that her maiden name was Priscilla Salisbury - that when a child she resided in the town of North East Dutch Co. in said state and that Hopy Orr - formerly Hopy Salisbury was her sister - This deponent states that her said sister was ten years older than herself - This deponent further states that she well & distinctly remembers the time when her said sister was married to William Orr - this deponent at the time of said marriage was eight years of age and her sister the said Hopy, was nearly eighteen years of age - that the marriage took place on the second day of August in the year seventeen hundred and seventy five (1775) and that her said sister was eighteen on the twentieth day of the said month & year
This deponent states that the circum- stances of the marriage of her said sister are perfectly & distinctly recollected - that the said Hopy & the said Orr left the house of this deponent's father on the morning of the day that the marriage took place

and went to a place about four miles distant where the ceremony was performed of marriage was performed by a man named Elder Bradner - that after the ceremony had been performed & on the same day the said William & the said Hopy returned to the house of this deponent's father and that in the evening a ball and party were given at this deponent's house of this deponent's said father on the occasion of the aforesaid marriage of her said sister with the said William Orr - at which ball & party this deponent was present - This deponent states that she was not present at the ceremony of marriage between her said sister & the said William Orr.
This deponent further states that she knew the said William Orr intimately - that sometime after the aforesaid marriage had taken place the said William Orr enlisted into the Continental Service of the United States as a soldier - that he served during the greater part of the revolutionary war - & that during a portion of the time of his service he was an orderly sergeant as this deponent

then heard & believed & still believes that while he was absent in service his wife the said Hopy resided at the house of this deponent's said father some of the time, and also a portion of the time at the house of the father of the said William Orr in the said town of North East - This deponent further states that the said William Orr while in service oc- -casionally came home to the said town of North East on a furlough
This deponent further states that the said Hopy & the said William Orr had three children born to this deponent's knowledge before the close of the revolutionary war - that the name of the first child was Robert Orr who died when he was two years of age - that the second son was named Gideon Orr & that he was born as this deponent well remembers on the twenty eighth day of May but in what year she does not distinctly remember - that on the day of his birth this deponent rem- -embers that she picked a quantity of strawberries and brought them

to her said sister - This deponent further states that her said sister had another child born before the close of said war and that his name was William Orr
This deponent further states that she distinctly remembers to have heard it said during the time of the revolutionary war that the said William Orr was employed during a part of the time he was in service in manufacturing cannon with a Brother named Hugh Orr at a place called Livingston Furnace which place this deponent states that she visited during said war - and that the said William Orr assisted in constructing the chain which was placed across the Hudson river in said war
I hereby subscribe and mark this 16 th day of October
Priscilla her X Green mark
1847 - Before me - Samuel Richmond Justice of the Peace The words "of day" interlined before signing - Witness Samuel Richmond
I certify that the reason why Mrs Green made her mark was because she is so blind she cannot see to write her name I further certify that she is a Woman of integrity and credibility and is a person of more than common good memory especially in relation to matters that transpired in her younger days I further say that I have been acquainted with Mrs Green ever since I was a child Samuel Richmond Justice of the Peace

Asst of Fiction 02

State of New York County of Orleans ss Gideon Orr of the town of Murray in said County being duly sworn doth depose & say that he believes himself to be sixty eight years of age in May last past, and his knowledge of the date of his birth is derived from the family record made by his father - that he is the son of William and Hasty Orr - and that his father the said William, or his mother the said Hasty was as this deponent believes, never but once married - that his said father was as he was a soldier of the revolution- ary war & drew bounty land for his services as a soldier - This depo- nent states that he has heard his said father say that he visited the land assigned to him as a soldier, in the State of New York soon after the revolutionary war that the country was wild & uncultivated & his said father caught a fever while on this expedition -
This deponent states that he has a recollection of the time when his said father disposed of his bounty land - that this deponent was about fourteen or fifteen years of age at the time my land was sold - that his father considered the said land to be of but little value from the fact that it was then a wilderness & that he received but one hundred dollars for the whole lot of bounty land -
This deponent states that he has often heard his said mother express great

regret that his said father, sold the said land, & say that it ought to have been kept by him for the benefit of their children
Gideon Orr Gideon Orr
I was & subscribed to this 20 th day of January 1848-
Before me,
M c White Justice of the Peace
I hereby certify that the above named deponent, Gideon Orr is personally known to me & that he is a person of credit in whose statement full confidence may be reposed.
M c White Justice
Copy of Gideon Orr

Aft of James Or.

State of New York County of Monroe
James Orr of the town of Murray in said the County of Orleans in said State being duly sworn doth depose & say that he is the son of William & Mary Orr - that his father the said William Orr drew bounty lands for his services in the revolutionary war, located in the Military Tract in said State - that he has often heard his said father & mother speak of said bounty land and of the sale thereof - that his said father sold the said land soon after he had paid a visit to it upon finding that it was a wilderness and not then as he deemed of much value - that while on a visit to said land he caught the fever and ague and returned sick - that soon after this he sold the said land and was at the time of said sale away from home - that this deponent has heard his said mother say during her life time that when the said William Orr sold his bounty land he was away from home his home in the town of North East in Dutchess County and she knew nothing of his sale of said land until after the deed was executed - that no application was made to her to join with her husband in the sale, and that she did not withhold her signature from the deed for any other reason than that she was not asked to sign it - but this deponent states that he has very often heard her express her regret that the said land was sold

by her husband at all as it subsequently rose in value - and the mention was made to her of instituting proceedings after the death of her husband, the said William Orr to recover her right of dower in said premises, but that she refused to do so because the present occupants of the land had purchased it in good faith & for a valuable consideration - which was not the case with the person who first purchased the land from her said husband -
And this deponent further states that he believes that it was at the time of the sale of said homestead by his said father an uncommon thing to require the signa- ture of the wife to a deed in any case and especially as to a deed of the homestead land of a revolutionary soldier -
Sworn & subscribed
James Orr
STATE OF NEW-YORK, } ss. MONROE COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE, }
I Certify, that J. W. Bissell, Esquire, was, at the date of the certificate of proof or acknowledgment of the annexed instrument in writing, a
Justice of the Peace
in and for said county, duly authorized to take the same; that I am well acquainted with his hand-writing, and verily believe that the signature to said certificate is genuine.
In Testimony Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and affixed the seal of said County, at Rochester, this 22 day of July A. D. 1848.
John C. Nash Clerk.

by her husband at all as it subsequently rose in value - and the mention was made to her of instituting proceedings after the death of her husband, the said William Orr to recover her right of dower in said premises, but that she refused to do so because the present occupants of the land had purchased it in good faith & for a valuable consideration - which was not the case with the person who first purchased the land from her said husband.
And this deponent further states that he believes that it was at the time of the sale of said bounty land by his said father an uncommon thing to require the signa- ture of the wife to a deed in any case and especially as to a deed of the bounty land of a revolutionary soldier.
Sworn & subscribed this 21 st day of July 1848. Before me. J. M. Russell J.P.
James Orr
STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF ...

Hofy. 622-

State of New York County of Yates ss Gideon Salisbury of the town of Middlesex in said County aged eighty four years in January last past being duly sworn doth depose & say that he was a soldier in the war of the revolution and is in a Pensioner of the United States for his services in said war. This deponent states that Hasty Orr formerly Hasty Salisbury was his sister that the said Hasty was married to Wil- iam Orr on the second day of August in the year seventeen hundred and seventy five (1775) in the County of Dutchess & State of New York by a man named Elder Bradner. This deponent states that he was present at the ceremony of marriage between the his said sister and the said William Orr. As was this deponent's Brother Bemanuel Salis- bury.
This deponent states that he knew William Orr intimately that he was a Blacksmith by occupation and was a very skillful & ingenious workman. This deponent further states that the said William Orr enlisted into the service of the United States as a soldier in the war of the revolution in the New York line of Continental troops in a company commanded by Capt. Wendall - that the said Orr enlisted in the early part of the war to serve during the war that he was a sergeant during a portion of the time he was in service and that he continued in the service of the United States till the close of the revolutionary war.
This deponent further states that

the said William Orr while in service was detached from said his company & in consequence of his skill as a mechanic and was employed in manufacturing cannon for the use of the Continental Army - that he made a cannon of a peculiar & singular description which was exhibited to General Washington; and further that the said Orr was employed in constructing the chain which was placed across the Hudson River in said war and that he was one of the principal workmen employed in manufacturing the said chain to this deponent's knowledge - This deponent states that he was at West Point at the time the said chain was placed across the Hudson River & he assisted in constructing the same work which was of logs used in supporting the chain across the said river - and this deponent knows that the said Orr was one of the principal workmen employed in making or casting the said chain - and that he was assisted by a person named Carr -
This deponent further states that the said William & the said Mary Orr had three children born before the close of the revolutionary war whose names were Robert Gideon & William Orr -
Gideon his Salisbury mark - Sworn & subscribed before me this 16 day of November 1847 - John I Schenck Justice of the Peace for Yates County

And I hereby certify that the above named Gideon Salisbury is personally known to me that he is a man of integrity & credibility and that in my opinion full reliance may be placed on his statement above made -
John J Schenck
State of New York
County of Yates ss: I hereby certify that John J Schenck Esq before whom the above affidavit of Gideon Salisbury dated 16 th Nov r . 1847, was taken was at the time an acting Justice of the Peace in and for the said County elected sworn and duly authorized by the laws of said state to act as such, and that I am well acquainted with his hand writing and truly believe his signatures to the first of the said affida- vit and to the certificate of credibility therewith written are genuine.
In Testimony whereof I have hereunto subscribed my name and affixed the seal of said County my official seal the 19 th day of Nov r A.D. 1847.
A. A. Fargo Clerk Yates County

Holley Nov. 15 th 1847
Dear Sir the receipt
I recd your letter of the 10 th acknowledging of my letters of the 8 th and 9 th But had not received the letter from John Ward that contained the other part of the old Book Cover and paper relative to the war - and saying if you could get one paper about my Father's services it would be worth more than all witnesses. Thinking the paper that has been found would be of much use to you and fearing it had been directed wrong or miscarried I felt very anxious to know if you had received it. I will give you the words contained in the letter sent from Angeline Ward to her Mother here - (She says) we received uncle James letter Oct the 28 th and I have looked over the old papers and writings and found a paper that states that Grandfather was in the war and what Regiment he belonged to and we have sent it to Mr. Druery with the rest of the Book cover. I should suppose the paper would reach you some days before we received her letter. believing the paper to be material I felt over anxious to hear from you please answer. Squire Garrison of Holley wished me to have you call on him
I hope my letters won't become tedious Your Friend James Orr Lett Druery Esq
ice ice c

1 hour 30 min
Mr L. M. Drury Esqr Canandaigua
es

Milldale Nov 16/94
Yours of Oct 29 th was handed to me as one of the four ministers in this town. In respect to marriage records there are none in the Presbyterian Ch., with which I am connected, going back comparatively but a few years, the ch. not having been in existence long. The only ch. likely to have records of the date you mention is the Baptist, about 8 miles north. The clerk of that ch. tells me they go back nearly, if not quite as far, but that there are no marriage records among them. I have spent several days in endeavoring to find their book to examine it, but have only succeeded in hearing some half dozen times when it was . I will see if I can find when it is , before the mail leaves to- day. From what I have learned from their clerk & from those who knew the parties, whose names you have given, I have little expectation the record desired can be found in this town. Old inhabitants tell me they came from Duchess Co. N.Y. from Connecticut about North East

25
L. M. Irving Esq. Canandaigua N. Y.

But after the second further attempt I have suc- cessed in ascertaining that the book referred to has no record beyond 1787. Where else to look I know not. There are a few very aged persons who might be con- sulted for information of the fact of the marriage. But record evidence I know not where to find.
Any further assistance I can render you will be cheerfully given.
Yours Respectfully Nathaniel A. Phelps

State of New York
county of Ontario ss L.M. Dury of Canan- -daque in said county being due here doth depose & say that the annexed letter signed by Winthrop H. Phelps was received through the Post Office in reply to one written by this deponent enquiring for record evidence of the marriage of William Orr with Hepsy Salis- -bury, from the Church records of the town of Hillsdale. This deponent further states that sometime in October last he addressed a letter to a friend of his named Hiram Wheeler residing in the town of North East, Dutch Co. New York enquiring for record evidence of the marriage of the said William Orr with the said Hepsy Salisbury. Solemnized by a man called Elder Brad- -ner. And this deponent states that he received a letter on the twenty first of the present month, through the Post Office from the said Wheeler, which letter bears date "North East Centre N.Y. November 14. 1847" and is Post marked "N. East N.Y. Nov 18" and contains in the following words & a statement in relation to the matters enquired of by this deponent, which statement is all that is written in said letter upon the subject - the remaining portion of said letter being matters of a private & personal nature - which is the reason the letter itself is not hereto annexed -
"There are no ancient records in this place of the nature you seek - The Rev. Mr Bradner was Pastor of the Church at "the City" many years ago - probably about 1775 -

and there are church records showing that fact, but none of marriages or baptisms solemnized by him & no traditions that I can find in the Society of his descendants. A. Mr Robert Willson now living at Dryden Township Co. is probably the only person now having personal recollections of Mr Bradner."
This deponent further states that the annexed letter signed by James Orr was received by him through the Post Office - and that the package mentioned in said letter as containing the remaining part of an old book cover - (the other part having been sent to with the Pension Department by this deponent with the papers in the case of Hasty Orr) and a paper relating to the service of William Orr in the revolutionary war - which said package is stated to have been sent through the mail to this deponent, has not been received by this deponent, nor does this deponent know what has become of it - but he supposes it must have been lost in the transmission by mail to him - And further says not -
Subscribed & sworn this 22 nd day of Nov- -ember 1847 - Before me.
Reuben Murray Jr Deputy Clerk of Ontario County
Clerk being absent
I certify that I am personally acquainted with L. M. Drury and that he is a person of credibility Witness my hand & Seal of said County
Reuben Murray Jr Deputy Clerk of Ontario County
L. M. Drury -

State of New York County of Columbia
James Bryan of the Town of Helderale in the said County being duly sworn doth depose and say that he believes himself to be twentyfour years old in June last past. and that he has resided in said Town ever since his childhood except in the year 1808 and the years 1825 and 1826. William Orr came into the Town of Helder- -ale or Noble Town as it was then called in the years 1783 or 1784 1783 or 1784 soon after close of the Revolutionary war - he purchased a small farm say 30 or 40 Acres. about half a mile from my Father's when I lived immediately after the war he moved with his family on the afore said premises - His family consisted of his wife Hopy as he called her Two Children Boys. The oldest named Gideon the younger William and an Apprentice by the name of Peter Seely. Said Orr built a Shop near a stream of Water where he worked at Blacksmithing & making scythes and erected a stone dam across the said stream for the purpose of grinding scythes which is now standing and used for the purpose of carding wool and full- -ing cloth. I was intimately acquainted with the the Boys Gideon & William and was well acquainted with William Orr and his wife Hopy. and was frequently at the House & Shop - I remember well of going to School with Gideon and I think some with William while living in the Town. the school House stood about half way between my Father's then Father's. In the year 1789. June 11 th I was sixteen years of age immediately after I was first enrolled in the Militia. Soon after it became necessary to elect a Capt. in the place of Wheaton Hicks resigned. said Orr was a candidate for the Office against John Vanclieve. I being young and said first enrolled thought it improper for me to vote and declined voting till the company had voted their it being a tie the both times I was intended to give the casting vote which elected said Orr Capt. - His wife

Hoppy was much pleas d and said that I was the best boy in Iowa for stating her Husband Capt she was afterward very fond of me and he also. I performed Military duty under said Orr very training while he commanded the Com- -pany a part of the time as a Noncommissioned Officer.
During the time the said William & Hoppy Orr lived in said Iowa they sustained towards each other the relation of Husband & wife and were united together they had one or two children born while living in said Iowa I think one named James. About the year 1793 or 1794 they removed back to Dutchess County where I as I understood they came - me from. At the time when William & Hoppy Orr first came to said Hillsdale their son Gideon according to the list of my motivation was five or six years old he was a few years youn- -ger than myself.
Subscribed and sworn Before me this 22 nd day of May A.D. 1848
James Bryan
Levi L. Solomon & Justice
We the subscribers hereby certify that we have been for many years personally acq uain - ted with James Bryan the above deponent and that we consider him to be a man of intelli- gence and integrity and that he has filled several important official stations such as magistrate in this town and representative in the legislature of the state of New York and we think entire confidence may be reposed in his statements
Hillsdale May 22 nd 1848
John G. Collins
Levi L. Solomon

State of New York
County of Columbia ss
Joel Blackman of the town of Hillsdale in said county aged eighty four years in January last past being due sworn doth depose & say that he was born in the said town of Hillsdale (formerly called Noxton) and has resided there during all of his life time - This deponent states that he knew William Orr & Hopsy his wife during the time they resided in said town that they came from the Dutchess County in said State to the town of Hillsdale about the year seventeen hundred & eighty three or seventeen hundred & eighty four soon after the close of the revolutionary war - that when they came here to reside they had a family of children - the said William Orr owned a small place in said town & and carried on the Blacksmithing business & making scythes - This deponent states that his first wife previous to her marriage resided close by the residence of the said William & Hopsy Orr and that when visiting her he often saw the said William & said Hopsy - that he was married in the year when he was in his twenty seventh year - and he knows that at the time of his marriage the said William & Hopsy Orr resided in said town & had resided there for several years previous & they continued to reside there for several years after - This deponent states that he knew the said William & Hopsy Orr perfectly well - that when they first came to Hillsdale, they sustained the relation

of husband & wife & brought with them children and that while they resided in Hillsdale which was about eight or ten years, they continued to sustain that ref relation & lived together in lawful wedlock. And they had the reputation of being husband & wife. This deponent states that about the year 1793, or 1794, they of the said William Hasty or and their family removed back to the said county of Dutchess - as this deponent under- stood. And further says not.
Sworn & subscribed this 22 d day of May 1848. Before me
Isaac Black
Levi Johnson Justice
There is to certify that I am personally acquainted with the above named deponent and have been for many years and know him to be a man of truth and integrity and that he retains his mental and physical power unimpaired and in my opinion entire confidence may be reposed in his state- ment above made
Levi Johnson Justice
J. M. Dineen Barnard Hughes New York
June 10. 48 Hasty or Hasty He N.Y.

7008 Letters of Adminis- tration To Hope Orr 3

Letter of Administration.
The People of the State of New-York, by the Grace of God, Free and Independent.
TO Hospy Orr of the town of Summit in the county of Schoharie
Send Greeting.
WHEREAS William Orr late of the town of Summit in said County
as is alledged, lately died intestate, having whilst living, and at the time of his death, Goods, Chattels or Credits within this State, by means whereof, the ordering and granting Administration of all and singular the said Goods, Chattels and Credits, and also of the auditing, allowing and finally discharging the Account thereof doth appertain unto us: and we being desirous that the Goods, Chattels and Credits of the said Deceased may be well and faithfully administered, applied and disposed of, do grant unto you the said Hospy Orr
full power by these Presents, to administer, and faithfully to dispose of all and singular the said Goods, Chattels and Credits—to ask, demand, recover and receive the Debts which unto the said Deceased, whilst living, and at the Time of his death, did belong, and to pay the Debts, which the said Deceased did owe, so far as such Goods, Chattels and Credits will thereto extend and the law require: Hereby requiring you, to make or cause to be made, a true and perfect Inventory of all and singular the Goods, Chattels and Credits of the said Deceased, which have or shall come to your Hands, Possession or Knowledge, and the same so made to exhibit or cause to be exhibited into the Office of the Surrogate of the said County of Schoharie at or before the Expiration of six Calendar Months from the Date hereof; and also to render a just and true Account of Administration when thereunto required. And we do
by these Presents depute, constitute and appoint you the said Hospy Orr Administratrix of all, and singular the Goods, Chattels and Credits which were of the said William Orr
In Testimony whereof, we have caused the Seal of Office of our said Surrogate to be hereto affixed.
Witness William Mann Esquire, Surrogate of the said County, at Schoharie the twenty sixth Day of April in the Year of our LORD one thousand eight hundred and twenty three and of our Independence the thirty fourth
William Mann Surrogate