Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty Land Warrant Application File S. 7,348, for Joseph Ramsey, Virginia

SERVICE
NUMBER
Va.
Ramsey Joseph Ramsay
S. 7348 Va half pay
CONTENTS

Virginia. 31. 767.
Joseph Ramsay, dec d of Wythe, Co. in the State of Virginia who was a Lieut Col in the Co. commanded by Captain Montgomery of the Reg t commanded by Col. Clark in the Virginia line for Byers .
Increased from $248. 88 / 100
Inscribed on the Roll of Richmond, Va at the rate of 300 Dollars 66 Cents per annum, to commence on the 4th day of March, 1831, & end 16 Jun 1845, when he died.
Certificate of Pension issued the 6 th day of Nov. 1846, and sent to Tho Green, Richmond, Virg a
years to the 4th of
annual allowance ending
Increased 88 / 100 from $248. 15 / 100 per and payable to Widow.
{ Revolutionary Claim, Act June 7, 1832. }
Recorded by D. S. Wood Clerk v. E. L. Vol. 6 1/2 Page 31.
Reported.
Sd. to Tho Green April 8th '47
Sam May 31/51
Hun A. H. R. Chase June 12, 1851
May 31, 1851

34,919
Joseph Ramsay
yr
act 7 June '32
7296 Jos Ramsay

Tale of Virginia } S.S. County of Wythe }
On this 14 th day of October 1859 personally appeared in open court before Christopher Morris Thomas Sanders Robert Sayers and William Greenlee. The court of Wythe County now sitting, Joseph Ramsay a resident of the the county & State aforesaid aged Seventy eight years & ten months who being first duly sworn according to law, doth on his oath, make the following declaration, in order to obtain the benefit of the act of Congress passed June 7 1832. That he entered the service of the United States under the following named officers, and served as herein stated: That he enlisted in the service of the State of Virginia at that time called the Colonial service under the command of Captain John Montgomery in the January of 1778 in the county of Montgomery State aforesaid, where he then lived and marched to Harrodsburg in the state of Kentucky which was at that period a part of the State of Virginia this declarant remained there but a short time & then marched to the Falls of the Ohio where Louisville now stands where the company to which he belonged joined the Illinois Regiment under the command of Col. George Rogers Clark. From there he marched with the Regiment to Illinois and was present at the taking of Kaskaskia. This declarant states that he does not recollect others of the field officers who commanded at that period than Major Brown and Col Clark, he having returned to Bedford and to Russellburg under the command of Capt Montgomery. This declarant remained in the county of Montgomery now a portion of which is Wythe County until the return of Capt Montgomery who went on to Richmond in Virginia in company with the Prisoners who was then promoted to the Rank of Colonel and directed by the Governor of Virginia who was Thomas Jefferson to raise a Regiment in Virginia. In the month of January 1779. This declarant was promoted to the rank of a Lieutenant in the company commanded by Captain Thomas Quirk & attached to Colonel John Montgomery's Regiment. The regiment so commanded by Col Montgomery marched in the Spring of 1779 to Illinois & was there commanded by Genl Clark who had been promoted from the rank of a Colonel. After the regiment in which this declarant belonged, reached Kaskaskia an expedition against Detroit was undertaken & the Army under the command of Col Clark was

orders upon that Expedition. After they reached Point now Vincennes a Council was held & the Expedition abandoned. After the failure of this Expe- dition against Detroit. This declarant and one Captain Jesse Evans were sent into the Settlements as recruiting officers. They went to Richmond in Virginia for instructions whether they should enlist soldiers for the period of three years or during the war . When Evans returned this declarant commenced his recruiting service & was stationed at the Lead Mines in the now County of Wythe. He continued this service until the fall of the year 1780. When the recruits were sent to join the Illanois Regi- ment. This Declarant conducted the recruits on their way to the West and meeting with General Clark in the Wilderness of Kentucky on the 1st of Novem- ber 1780. He then resigned his commission as Lieutenant & returned home. Soon after his return he volunteered under the command of Colonel William Preston in an Expedition into North Carolina against the English Army under the command of Cornwallis. Shortly after their arrival they had an engagement with the English at Wheeler's or Hubbell's Mills in the County of Guilford & another skirmish on the Alamance river. This declarant does not now remember the length of his services in this service but he continued during the time Preston was on the Expedition. This declarant had until recently in his possession the pay roles of this company to which he belonged under the command of Captain Dirst in the Illanois Regi- ment & the commission or instruction of the Governor to recruit for that ser- vice. He believes that his name is to be found in the Army Rolls for the State of Virginia. He further states that he does not know of any one now living who can testify as to the length of time he served during the Revolutionary War, but he can prove that was in that service. This declarant further states that he was in the service from January 1778. regularly until the 1 st of November 1780. being a period of near three years. That the term of his services under Preston was nearly equal to if not more than two months - but of this he is not certain.
He here by relinquishes every claim whatever to a pension or annuity except the present, and declares that his name is not on the pen- sion Roll of any Agency of any State.
Given to subscribers the day & year afore said.
Joseph Mansfield

We Casper Yost a Clergyman residing in the County of Wythe and State of Virginia, and Joseph Kent residing in the County of Wythe State of Virginia hereby certify that we are well acquainted with Joseph Ramsay who has hereunto subscribed to the foregoing declaration that we believe him to be 78 years and 10 months of age; that he is reputed & believed in the neighbourhood where he resides to have been a soldier of the Revolution, and that we concur in that opinion. Given under our hands the day and year aforesaid
Casper Yost Joseph Kent
And the said Court do hereby declare their opinion after the investigation of the matter, and after putting the interrogatories prescribed by the War Depart- ment, that the above named applicant was a revolutionary soldier and served as he states. And the Court further certifies that it appears to them that Casper Yost who has signed the preceding certificate is a clergyman residing in the County of Wythe State of Virginia, and that Joseph Kent who has also signed the same is a resident in the County of Wythe State of Virginia and is a credible person, and that their statements are en- titled to credit.
I John P. Matthews clerk of the County Court for Wythe County and State of Virginia do hereby certify that the foregoing contains the origi- nal proceedings of the said Court in the matter of the application of Joseph Ramsay for a Pension. In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal of office this 16 day of October 1839
J P Matthews Clerk

Mary Ann Ramsey
Virg a
At July 38

State of Virginia } Wythe County } s.s.
Be it known, that before me, Robert Sayers, a justice of the peace for the County and State aforesaid, personally appeared Mrs. Mary Ann Ramsay, a resident of the said County and State, aged seventy one years, and made oath in due form of law, that she is the widow of Joseph Ramsay, the identical person who was a pensioner, and who is now dead, and to whom a certificate of pension was issued under the act of Congress of the 7th. June 1832, for a pension of two hundred and twenty five dollars and thirty three cents, per annum as a Lieutenant in the Illinois Regiment in the Revolution. That the deceased pensioner resided in Wythe County in the state of Virginia for the space of about eighty one years before his death, and that previous thereto he resided in Botetourt County in the state of Virginia (said County of Wythe having, during a part of that space, constituted a part of Montgomery County). That the said Joseph Ramsay died in said County of Wythe on the 16th day of June 1845, leaving the affiant as his widow. that she does not now recollect the precise period of marriage with said Ramsay, but that their eldest child, Thomas Ramsay, is now in the fifty fourth year of his age - that she has been informed that the said Joseph Ramsay was entitled to an increase of pension and had made application therefor prior to his death, not only on account of a longer period of service than had at first been allowed and for a longer term of service in his higher rank, but for a restoration of that part of his pension which had been withheld on account of his supposed indebtedness to the Government of the United States. The affiant further states, that she has made

application for the balance of pension due upon the certificate that was in the possession of the said Joseph Ramsey at the time of his death, viz: from the 4 th March 1845 to the day of his death, as above stated, and that she has surrendered the certificate, of said at the pension office in Richmond Virginia, together with the requisite proof that her husband had died on the 16 th day of June last and that she is his widow: to that proof and the evidence filed by her deceased husband she begs leave to refer, and now makes this application for the increase of pension so due and unpaid and for the restoration of that portion of the pension which was withheld from her husband, and also for the full benefit of the act of Congress of 7 th July 1838 for the relief of the widows of officers and soldiers of the war of the Revolution, and of any other act of Congress on the subject.
Witnesses
Sloya W m G d Wood
her Mary A t Ramsey mark
Sworn to and subscribed before me, a justice of the peace for said County of Myrtle; and I do hereby certify that I have been well acquainted with the said Joseph Ramsey and his wife, the said Mary Ann Ramsey, ever since my early childhood, I being now about fifty years of age. that I was also well acquainted with their eldest son, the said Thomas Ramsey, having been schoolmates, and that he was several years older than myself and I would suppose him to be about the age stated in the foregoing affidavit. and I further certify that said Joseph Ramsey and his said wife were living together, as husband and wife, when I first knew them and continued so to the death of said Joseph Ramsey; but that it was and still is the understanding of the neighbourhood.

hood, that they were not actually and legally married until after the birth of one or two of their children - that the period of their marriage the subscriber does not recollect, but he recollects hearing it spoken of and has no doubt that it took place since the year 1794 although they had lived together, as aforesaid before that period. Given under my hand this 9 th August 1845. Robert Sayers J.P.
State of Virginia Wythe County } to wit:
At a Court held for Wythe County at the Court House on Monday 14. July 1815.
Mary Ann Ramsey this day personally appeared in open Court, and presented a Statement, and the original pension Certificate, of which said Statement, embraces a copy, and signed to and subscribed the same, and also signed and sealed a power of attorney to Lewis D. Overstreet & acknowledged the same to be her act and deed, the word "revolutionary" having been interlined therein before said sealing and acknowledgment. And the Court Certify that it has been satisfactorily proven to them by the oath of respectable witnesses, that said Mary Ann Ramsey, who has signed to and subscribed the foregoing Statement and has sealed and acknowledged the foregoing power of attorney, is the widow of Joseph Ramsey, who the Court are satisfied from their personal knowledge as well as the evidence of said witnesses, was the identical person named in the said original Certificate, which is left in Court to be attached to said Statement and power of attorney; and it has also been satisfactorily proven to the Court that said Ramsey died in this County on the 16 th day of June 1815.
State of Virginia Wythe County } to wit:
I, John P. Matthews, Clerk of the County Court of the County of Wythe in the State of Virginia, do hereby Certify that the foregoing, purporting to be an order of said Court of the

14 th July 1845, is a true Copy from the records of the said Court, and I also certify that Robert Sawyer, before whom the foregoing statement and petition was sworn to and Subscribed by Mary Ann Ramsey on this day, was at the time said petition was sworn to and Subscribed and still is an acting Justice of the peace of said County of Wiltshire, duly Commissioned, and that the foregoing Signature purporting to be his, is genuine.
In testimony whereof I have hereunto Subscribed my name and affixed the Seal of the said Court, this 9 th day of August 1845.
J. P. Mathews, Clerk of the County Court of Wiltshire (sitting) By Andrew Thompson, D.C.

Know all men by these presents that I Joseph Ramsey do hereby nominate constitute and appoint Samuel M'Camant and John G. Price of the City of Pulaski and their lawful attorneys with full power jointly and severally to demand and receive from the proper accounting officers of the Treasury of the United States any warrants for commutation pay in lieu of half pay for life or any other emoluments that may be due to me on account of my Revolutionary services as a Lieutenant of the Virginia State Line and my said Attorneys or either of them are by these presents fully authorized to adjust settle and account with such accounting officers any and all claims due to me as aforesaid, and in my name grant receipts and acquittances for the same and to do all such acts needful or necessary to be done to the complete execution of the premises. I hereby ratifying and confirming all that my said Attorneys or either of them may do by virtue of these presents. The said power to be irrevocable. Given under my hand and seal this 10th day of December 1833
Joseph Ramsey Seal
State of Virginia Wythe County ss.
Personally came before me a Justice of the Peace in and for said County Joseph Ramsey Subscribed to the foregoing power of attorney and acknow- ledged the same to be his voluntary act and deed.
Given under my hand this 10 day December 1833
Robert Layne J.P.
State of Virginia Wythe County ss.
I John P. Matthews Clerk of the County Court for said County do hereby certify that Robert Layne whose name is subscribed to the foregoing certificate is a magistrate as above, and that the said signature purporting to be his are genuine.
In testimony whereof I have hereunto subscribed my name and affixed my seal of office this 11th day December in the year 1833
J. P. Matthews Clk
State of Virginia

State of Virginia Wythe County ss.
I John P. Matthews Clerk of the County Court for said County do hereby certify that Robt. Leagues whose name is subscribed to the foregoing certificate is a magistrate as above, and that the said signature purporting to be his are genuine.
In testimony whereof I have hereunto subscribed my name and affixed my seal of office this 11 th day December in the year 1833.
J. P. Matthews Clerk
State of Virginia
Wythe County ss.
Personally came before me a Justice of the Peace in and for said County Robert English Son and man-at-law in all points of Law that he has been acquainted with Joseph Ramsey of said County for the space of 50 or 60 years that the said Ramsey was in Preseyn and afterwards a Lieutenant in the a Regiment commonly called Regiment commanded by Col. John Montgomery that this Affiant served as a private in a Company commanded by Thomas Quick belonging to the same Regiment and was well acquainted with the sd Ramsey while in service, before he entered it, and ever since. —
Robert English mark

Sworn to and subscribed before me a Justice of the Peace this 12 day of February 1834
Stephen Caton J.P.
State of Virginia Wythe County ss
I John P. Matthews Clerk of the County Court of said County do hereby certify that Stephen Caton whose name is subscribed to the Certificate on the opposite page is and ever was at the time thereof an acting Justice of the Peace for said County duly Commissioned and sworn and that full faith and credit are justly due to all his official acts as such and further that the signature aforesaid purporting to be his is genuine
In Testimony whereof I have hereunto subscribed my name and affixed the seal of said County Court this 17 day of February 1834
J.P. Matthews Clerk
By
A.B. M c Rae D.C.

Waring Department Regular Office
28 June 1834
I do hereby certify the foregoing to be true transcripts from those in file of Record in this Office
Sturtevant Reg

17348
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,
Bureau of Pensions,
Washington, D. C., _____, 19_____
In reply to your request of _____, received _____ for a statement of the military history of Joseph Ramsey or Montgomery a soldier of the REVOLUTIONARY WAR, you will find below the desired information as contained in his (or his widow's) application for pension on file in this Bureau.
   DATES OF ENLISTMENT OR APPOINTMENT. LENGTH OF SERVICE. RANK. OFFICERS UNDER WHOM SERVICE WAS RENDERED. STATE.   CAPTAIN. COLONEL.     Jan 1778 Jan 1779 Col. John Montgomery Col. Roger Clarke Va.   Jan 1779 Nov 1780 Lieut. Thos. Roberts John Montgomery   Feb 1781 Subs. Col. Preston  
Battles engaged in, Kings Mountain, White Plains, Allamance Residence of soldier at enlistment, located in Montgomery Co. Va. Date of application for pension, Oct 1839. His claim was allowed. Residence at date of application, Wythe Co. Va. Age at date of application, born 1758. He died in Wythe Co. Va. June 1845. Remarks: Leaving a widow Mary Anne who was 71 yrs old. They had children only name stated being Thomas.
Very respectfully,
Commissioner.

20 June 1845 Jos. Ramsay
FREE
Col. J. L. Edwards Commr. of Pensions Washington City D.C.

Wytheville Va. June 14 th 1875.
Dear Sir,
I learn that the Agent for paying pensions in Richmond refuses to pay to L. D. Crenshaw, of that city, Attorney in fact of Joseph Ramsey, the amount due Mr. Ramsey for his pension for the half year ending 4 th March past, upon the ground that an order had been given, some time previous, to pay to no one except Mr. Points the Marshal. Mr. Ramsey having been relieved from the decree agt. him, Price V. McLeanant, prior to 4 th March, I presume there can be no desire longer, with the proper officers of the Government, to restrict Mr. Ramsey to the appointment of the Marshal to receive his pension, and they will cheerfully allow him to consult economy & his convenience in selecting an Atty. To get his semi-annual payment through Mr. Points will cost him some $30- or $40- but to get it through Mr. Crenshaw will cost him nothing but the postage incurred. I have been appointed Mr. Ramsey's Atty in fact (as the letters of Atty. laid before you, before this time by Mr. Crenshaw, show) to endeavor to procure

an increase of his pension equal to the length of his service. and the fact of my being his Atty. induces me to take the liberty to address you this note to ask that you will instruct the Agent in Richmond to pay Mr. Ramsey's half yearly payment to Mr. Crenshaw if the papers are in form &c. That payment will of course be deducted from what would be received by Mr. Ramsey, if an increase shall be allowed. The old man needs the money, & I hope the amount will be paid to Mr. Crenshaw. I now write at the instance of the Deputy Marshal, Mr. Robert Sibbary, to whom Mr. Ramsey desires to pay a part of the amount for some advances made to him by Mr. Sibbary to buy the little necessaries of life.
With the highest respect
Your servt: A. T. Lusk.
H. S. J. Boyd

Office of The Solicitor of The Treasury April 15. 1845.
Sir
I have received your letter of the 14 th inst. requesting to be furnished with a statement of the Judgment in the Western District of Virginia, against Joseph Ramsey, a Revolutionary officer, and the several payments made thereon by said Ramsey, and in compliance with your request, have to state:
That it appears from the Reports of the United States Attorney for the Western District of Virginia to this Office, that Judgment was rendered against Joseph Ramsey et al. at September Term, 1839, of the District Court for said District, for $7658.96, with interest from 12 th March, 1834, till paid, & $153 24 / 100 costs; and that Execution issued upon the said Judgment, under which the Marshal of the said Western District of Virginia, has collected the following sums, and accounted for the same to the Treasury, viz:—
Deposited to the credit of the Treasurer of the United States, Nov. 28. 1840. $ 1835. 40 Do Dec. 21. 1840. 84. 66 Do March 15. 1841, 2300. — Do July 27. 1841, 84. — Total cash collected and paid into the Treasury. $ 4304. 06
The receipts or Certificates of the depositories in which the above sums were deposited to the credit of the Treasurer of the United States were transmitted to your office; and the Third Auditor advised this

office by letter dated 19 th May, 1842, that he had adjusted the account of said Ramsey, and after crediting him with the said payments, amounting to $4304.18, there remained a balance due from him to the United States, exclusive of interest and costs, the sum of $3374.78.
It is proper to state in addition to the above, that Washington G. Singleton, Esq. the Attorney, charged with the prosecution of this suit, presented to this office in March, 1840, an account against the United States for special services in its preparation for trial, amounting to $1000. This account was transmitted by Mr. Birchard, then Solicitor of the Treasury, on the 13 th March 1840, to the Secretary of War for allowance, which letter was returned to Mr. Birchard, on the 13 th March 1840, with the following endorsement by the Secretary of War. "The amount charged by Mr. Singleton for his expenses in this transaction has been allowed, and will be deducted from the sum recovered and now in the Marshal's hands" — signed J. R. P., and at the foot of the account of Mr. Singleton, for $1000. which was returned with Mr. Birchard's letter, is appended the approval of the Secretary in the words "Allowed J. R. P." On the 14 th of March 1840, Mr. Birchard addressed a letter to James Point, Esq. Marshal of the Western District of Virginia, directing him to pay to Mr. Singleton the sum of $1000, thus allowed him by the Secretary out of his collections on this execution and transmit his receipt to this office for the same, and on the 28 th March, 1842, the Marshal enclosed to my predecessor the receipt of Mr. Singleton for the said sum of one thousand dollars, which receipt bears date the 4 th May, 1840. Believing that it is proper in the adjustment of the account

of Mr. Ramsey that you should have the facts before you, I send the original correspondence in relation to them. When you shall have made such use of it as you may deem necessary and proper, please return the originals to the this Office.
The papers enclosed, are
1. Letter from Mr. Burchard to Mr. Poinsett, Secretary of War, dated 13 th March, 1840, with account of Mr. Singleton and original endorsements of allowance by the Secretary. 2 nd Copy of letter from Mr. Burchard, to James Pointz, Marshal, dated 14 th March, 1840, directing him to pay the amount out of his collections. 3 rd Letter from James Pointz, Marshal, dated March 28 th 1842, enclosing receipt of Mr. Singleton for said sum of $1000. Receipt dated May 4, 1840.
I am, with great respect
Your obed t serv t
J. D. Darlow
Solicitor of the Treasury
J. L. Edwards, Esq. Court of Pensions Washington, D.C.

WAR DEPARTMENT.
REVOLUTIONARY CLAIM.
I certify that in conformity with the law of the United States, of the 7th June, 1832, Joseph Ramsay, decd. who was a private and a scout, was entitled to a pension at the rate of $248.88 per annum, as the 4th March, 1831 and at and up to the 16 June, 1845, the day of his death; which will be paid on the production of the proper vouchers to Mary Ann Ramsay, his widow, after having deducted the amount already paid.
This pension is increased from $225.33 per annum. is entitled to receive _____ dollars and cents per annum, during his natural life, commencing on the 4th of March, 1831, and payable semi-annually, on the 4th of March and 4th of September, in every year.
To be paid at } Richmond Va }
Given at the War Office of the United States, this 23 d day of December one thousand eight hundred and forty-five —
Secretary of War.
Examined and Countersigned. {
Commissioner of Pensions.

1038.

T. A. Dickins Esq.
No. 16 Church 1854.
1037.
700.

Pension off
March 6. '31.
Sir.
There is no pensioner of the State of Va. named Joseph Ramsay either under the act of '18 or '32 - There is a Joel Ramsay who is pensioned for service in the N. Carolina line.
Yr. respectfully
yr. friend &c
Geo. Wm. (Crum)
J. A. Dickinson esq.

Richmond 28 th Febr. 1847.
Col. J. L. Edwards Commr. of Pensions.
Sir.
The application of Mrs. Mary Ann Ramsay, widow of Joseph Ramsay of B o , for an increase of the pension, due & unpaid, at the time of his death, contained an application also for the balance of pension undrawn at the time of his death. I am instructed to ask your attention, again, to this last claim - which is for the amount of Lieut. Ramsay's pension, under act of 7 th June 1832, that was withheld from him, in consequence of the judgment of the U. S. against him. Mrs. Ramsay contends 1 st That the pension could not legally be withheld, on account of his indebtedness to the Government - 2 nd That the delivery of the Pension Certificate to the U. S. Marshal, with directions that the money should not go into Lieut. Ramsay's hands, but might be applied in part satisfaction of the Judgment, was no payment to said Ramsay & 3 rd that said pension, not having been paid to Mr. Ramsay, became hers at his death, regardless of all transfers or assignments, by will , or otherwise in his life time. Under the Pension law, no assignment or transfer of a pension, before it is actually in hand , has any legal validity. This pension was actually withheld from Joseph Ramsay, on account of his debt to the Govt. - as no payment was made to him , the pension undrawn became hers at his death. Being indebted to the Govt: suppose he had not asked for a pension, inasmuch as he was willing to let the one debt offset the other - it is clear - such an intention on his part, would not bar her claim at the time of his death.
It is equally clear, it seems to me, if, for any reason, the pension were unpaid at the time of his death, her right became complete. Instead of having been paid to him, it was withheld as a set-off - or credit.
For the facility of the accounts, the form of a Receipt

by the Marshall was gone through - but the substance of the transaction was, the U.S. refused to pay the pension to him , because she had a claim against him.
The actions of the different public Officers of the Govt. are to be regarded as her acts. The collection by one of them, from another of them - the transfer of the money from one pocket into the other, was no payment to Ramsay.
The directions from the Department prohibited any payment of the Pension to him . Whatever might be due the U. States, was collectable by execution against Ramsay or his securities - but the widow claims it not under her husband, but under the Pension Law .
Mr Butler's opinion of 27 June 1836, shows that Pensions could not be applied to debts .
Let in this case, the Govt. issued orders to the Pension agent at Reck, to pay the pension certificate "to Genl. Pounds, (Marshall of the W. District) to no other person -". This fact was endorsed on the papers by the agent at Reck.
This was a positive order, not to pay Ramsay.
I enclose a copy of a letter to me of 6 May 1845, from Th. J. Boyd, as containing a forcible argument on the Point -
The 3 d Section of Pension act 7 June 1832. was intended, to secure a personal benefit to the pensioner - & its spirit prohibits the seizure - or an application with or without his consent, of the pension to old debts, whether due the Govt. or individuals. In this case, the Pension certificate was put into the hands of the Marshall, with express orders that he should collect the pension & apply it to the Judgment - all controul being expressly prohibited to said Ramsay. It was in controul, no payment of the pension by the Govt. and that it is now the property of his widow.
I am Y r Ob t servt. Thomas Green.

Office of the Solicitor of the Treasury December 28. 1840.
Sir,
I have received from the Marshal of the Western District of Virginia, and herewith enclose you, the receipt of the Collector of Customs at Richmond Va., for Eighty four Dollars, collected by him in part of a Judg- ment the U. States vs. Joseph Ramsay & others.
Very respectfully, Yours, &c.
M c Brane Solicitor of the Treasury
W. J. James L. Edwards Esq. Commissioner of Pensions.

S. 252 1 May 15.
May 16. 1840.
To Tintern office.
See Mr. Edwards
I think Mr. has been dissatisfied.

Office of the Solicitor of the Treasury May 15 - 1840
Sir:
Enclosed is a letter with its enclosures received from the Commissioner of Pensions relative to the Pension of Joseph Ramsey amounting to about $2000.
My object is to apply this money with his consent in satisfaction of the judgment obtained by the U. States against him. With the Government applying not for money out of the Treasury but for the liquidation of a demand against it by satisfying in part a judgment in favor of the U States against the defendant, I can conceive of no legal objection to the course proposed and think that any reason for withholding the money must be unsound.
May I request you to examine the papers and give the proper directions as on an appeal from the Commissioners decision, for I feel confident it would not be in the power of the Department to resist the application of the money as now sought to be made should a bill in Chancery be filed by Ramsey for that purpose.
Please return the papers after examination.
Hon:
J. P. Poinsett
Sec: of War:
Very respectfully, yours
M. Birchard Solicitor of the Treasury

No. of Reps. May 22nd 1840
Sir
Will you inform me, how much is due to Joseph Ramsey of Wythe Co Va, under the act of the 7th of June 1832; and also how much land has been allowed him, not yet carried into grant, in consequence of an alleged fraud, in the prosecution of a claim for commutation in his name.
You are aware that a suit has been prosecuted in the Western District of Va, by Ramsey and his agents, (McClellan and Price) to recover back the sum which the agents obtained. It is admitted that Ramsey, was entitled to a pension under the act to which I have referred, though not to commutation , and I wish to ascertain what is  justly due Ramsey, both in money and land,

in order if necessary to have act passed to authorize or set-off in favor of an injured old man, who has been made the innocent victim of others.
Will you also inform me whether or not the government is not inclined inclined to the voluntary disclosure of Ramsey, for a discovery of the fraud committed in the prosecution of the claim in his name, and any other facts which it may be in your power to communicate, touching the conduct of Ramsey in the premises
Your early compliance, will much oblige
Your friend
W. D. Harkness

J. L. Edwards, Esq. Pension Office.

Washington Feby 23 rd 1844.
J. L. Edwards Esq Commissioner of Pensions.
Sir:
I request that you will furnish me with a copy of Joseph Ramsay's declaration for a pension filed in the early part of the year 1834.
Respectfully yours
Geo. W. Hopkins.

Office of the Solicitor of the Treasury August 14. 1841.
Sir,
I have received, and herewith enclose you, the receipt of the collector at Richmond N o for Eighty four dollars, collected by the Marshal of the Western District of Virginia in the suit M. Hale vs. Joseph Ranney & others.
Very respectfully, Yours &.
C. Brannan
Solr. of the Treasury
W. L. Edwards Esq. Comm r of Revenue Washington City.

Mar 19 1841
Joseph Ramsay decd. was
at 7 June '32 increased.
7 mo 20, pri 16 - 28 - 2t
248.88 to 16 June 1845. to Mary Ann Ramsay widow - deducting payments within that time at the rate of $225. 33 p. an n
for J. W. Hopkins H. R.

Office of the Solicitor Of the Treasury March 18. 1841.
Sir,
I have received from the Marshal of the Western District of Virginia, and herewith enclose you the receipt of the Collector of Customs at Richmond V. o for Five thousand three hundred Dollars, on account of a judgment against Joseph Ramsay & others, for moneys improperly drawn from the Treasury for Revolutionary services.
Very respectfully, Yours &c.
M c Bracken Solicitor of the Treasury
W o . James L. Edwards Esq. Commissioner of Pensions Washington D.C.

June 10. 1842.
Geo. Ramsey
Free Geo. W. Hopkins FREE
Hon. G. W. Hopkins to
Col J. S. Edwards Com of Pensions War Dept.

Ho of Reps. June 9th 1822.
Col J. S. Edwards.
Comm. of Pensions.
Sir
You will do me a favor to inform me how much remains due to the United States, from Joseph Ramsay of Wythe county Virginia, upon a decree obtained against him, Samuel McCamant and Price in the District Court at Wythe Court-house, some years ago. It is admitted that Ramsay is entitled to a pension under the act of the 7th June 1822. My object is to ascertain how much that now amounts to - What expenses are incurred in its collection and application in payment of the decree? Who receives it? Where it is paid - Whether a certificate has now been issued in Ramsay's favor for that pension! If so, who has it? How much has been paid from other means upon the the decree. I wish in fine, a full and detailed statement showing the amount and date of the decree, and each sum paid upon it, and by whom said sum - what funds, if the latter part can be ascertained.
Your friend Geo. Klopstock
I may as well inform you that I have understood, that the Mass. State of the Western District of Va., is allowed $100 for going to Richmond to view Ramsay's pension, and for applying it to the decree.

Stanton Nov. 13. 1840.
Sir,
I enclose to you the Power of Attorney from Joseph Ramsey to me to draw his Pension from the 4 th March last until the 4 th Sept r with a request that it may be made payable to my order , which will save the expense of a trip to Richmond to collect, and Get Can, and will be applied as was understood, in part discharge of a Lidge m ent in favour of the U. S. vs. S d Ramsey,
This will not only be an accommodation to myself but a saving of the expense to this old man,
James L. Edwards Esq Commission of Pensions
Very Respectfully Your Obedient Servant James Poind

Payment to be made at Richmond by James Castee Agent for paying Pension- ers in the Agency of
Virginia
Recorded in the Pension Office, in Book E 2 Vol. 1 1 .
Page 31 by
D. S. Wood Clerk.
Duplicate.

Washington City Feb. 7th 1826.
Sir
I have recd a letter from Col Thomas O'Bayle of Myrtle county Virginia, to whom the Pension certificate of Mrs Ramsey, widow of Joseph Ramsey late of that county was transmitted. He thinks the allowance is less than it should be, and insists that as Mr Ramsey was entitled to an increase of pension, the sum allowed to his widow ought to be larger than that mentioned in the certificate. He states from his recollection of the evidence found in the records of Joseph Ramsays case, that it is shown that Ramsey was certainly entitled as an officer to 22 months service, and as private, two months more, making altogether two years, which he thinks entitled him to something more than $300 per annum.
Was any part of the pension, of Ramsey, accruing after the passing of the bill for his relief against the judgment of the United States, retained by the Government and appropriated as a credit upon that judgment?
Col Bayle also desires me to call your attention to the application of Mrs Ramsey for a Pension under the act of 1838. He contends that a reasonable construction of the law, would give the full year pension to the widow. He states what from the tradition of the country, I am satisfied is true, that at the time when Ramsey and his wife first cohabited together as man and wife, in a then remote western settlement, constantly liable to Indian invasion, that they would have to travel from 100 to two hundred miles, in order to obtain a marriage license, and as that cohabitation continued in all the relations of the married life, and was followed by an actual celebration of the marriage ceremony in due form and under due authority, by which the

if they been born prior to the marriage were legitimated, that an equitable construction of the law, entitles the widow also, to the succeed to the rights of her husband.
If this is the first case of the kind which has been submitted for adjudication, it claims I think, upon very careful examination, for I feel quite confident that the facts will turn out in evidence to be such as I have indicated.
By the laws and adjudications of Virginia, the children born before the marriage are legitimated, and succeed to all the rights of their born after the marriage.
Col Boyd is a gentleman of high character, and as he is entitled to great respect, and entertains my strong impressions on the several points suggested in my letter, I will return it a personal favor if you will bestow upon some reflection, and give me the result of your examination.
Very truly Yours
Geo W Hopkins

21. ~ 67.

WAR DEPARTMENT.
REVOLUTIONARY CLAIM.
I certify that in conformity with the law of the United States, of the 7th June, 1832, The pension of Joseph Ramsay, decd. of Virginia who was a Lieut & Private & pensioned at 248. 88 /100 per an, is now increased to
is entitled to receive Three hundred dollars and Sixty Six cents per annum, during his natural life, commencing on the 4th of March, 1831, and payable semi-annually, on the 4th of March and 4th of September, in every year, ending 16 th June 1845, when he died, and payable to his widow Mary Ann Ramsay, after deducting all former payments. { Given at the War Office of the United States, this Sixth day of Nov. one thousand eight hundred and forty- Six ,
Secretary of War.
Examined and Countersigned. {
Commissioner of Pensions.
Duplicate.

Washington 15 May 1837.
James E Heath Esq. Commissioner of Pensions. Sir.
I beg leave to call your attention to the statements in my letter of 18 Feb: 1837, on behalf of the claim of Mrs. Mary Ann Ramsay, widow of Joseph Ramsay, for the balance of pension due him at the time of his death, under the act of 7 th June 1832.
Joseph Ramsay was a pensioner, under that act - but became indebted to the U. States, in another transaction which had no relation whatever to the pension laws. In that other transaction, his agents were charged and convicted of a fraud, by which he became legally responsible for money they obtained from the U. States, and applied to their own uses. And altho' the court decided, he had committed no fraud, and the various reports from your officers to members of Congress, expressed the conviction that he had been the victim, of the frauds of others, in which he did not participate - and altho' Congress released him by special act, from the legal liability aforesaid, - reserving their right, nevertheless, to make the money, out of the alleged fraudulent agents, yet the pension due under the act of 7 June 1832, is withheld from his widow, in order to diminish the balance, due in that other transaction by his agents.
Is this consistent with the spirit of the Pension act of 7 th June 1832? 2
That Joseph Ramsay was a Lieutenant, entitled to a pension under that act is admitted.
The 3 rd section of that act, provides: "And the pay hereby allowed, shall not be, in "any way transferable or liable to attachment, levy, or seizure, by any legal "process whatever , but shall inure wholly to the personal benefit of "the officer, non-commissioned officer, musician or soldier, entitled to the same."
It was intended for the decent support of the recipient, whose past services , entitled him to the public bounty, without any reference to his condition as debtor or creditor .

But the act of Congress of 25 January 1828 was still in force - That act was  provided - "that no new money hereafter appropriated, shall be paid to any "person, for his compensation, who is in arrears to the United States, until such "person shall have accounted for, and paid into the treasury, all sums for which "he may be liable." This act related to "disbursing Agents" and all other debtors of the Govt: who were receiving salaries , or other money, for Compensation ; and was construed to apply to Pensioners .
Hence the supplemental act of 20 th May 1836 - that the act of 25 Jany 1828 "shall not be construed to authorize the pension of any pension "er of the United States, to be withheld."
It was brief and summary - and shows the intention of Congress was, as the Attorney General stated, that - "pensions are given "to maintain, decently, a person entitled to public bounty, "for past services, and have no reference, whatever, to "any present relation between the Government and the "beneficiary" -
In Capt. Vernon's case, Mr. Butler, as Sec. of War, on 13 March 1837, decided that a pension could not be withheld for a debt due to the United States - and that altho a large Over-payment had been, by mistake, made to Capt. V., yet it should not be deducted from the subsequent instalments of pension - altho it was one & the same account current, in which the mistake had occurred -
Mr. Butler, as Atty: Genl, had, previously, viz: on 27 June 1836 , given his Opinion - that the act of 20 May 1836, had placed "the claims & rights of "pensioners, on precisely the same footing, as if the act of 25 Jany 1828 "had never been passed" - and that all money withheld from pensioners, under the construction heretofore given to that law , should be refunded.
In the case of James Palmer, a pensioner at $80 under act of 7 June 1832.

who was found in 1837 to have been entitled to only, $47.33. The question was could his pension be stopped, till the excess was refunded.
Mr. Legare at all events gave his opinion, on the case, 2 July 1842, recommended, the practice under Mr. Butlers decision should not be changed — and Mr. Spencer on the 5 July 1842, directed the pension should not be withheld .
Mr. Legare admits, the inclination of his mind, was rather against the previous decision of practice — but concludes not to change that practice — the Secretary acts accordingly & thus we have the concurring testimony of both officers (by the payment of the claim) as to what was the practice now finally settled.
It may not be amiss to remark — Mr. Legare was mistaken in supposing the act of 25 Janry 1828 related to defalcations in disbursing Officers "only" — The title of the act shows it referred to them "and for other purposes " — And the very words of the proviso to the act, show it relates to all salaried officers.
The terms of enactment, relate to all debtors , who are in receipt of money "for compensation" from the U. States.
That act covered the whole ground of the Common law, so far as related to claims for compensation , and that act is totally repealed, so far as pensioners of the U. S. are concerned. That pensioners were acknowledged, as coming within the class of claimants "for compensation", the act of 20 May 1836, duly shows — or it would not have been passed.
It relates to any pensioner , whatever , of the U. S. —
By pensioners , were claimants "for compensation" — so were the officers of the B. State line, who were claiming their Half-pay under act of 5 July 1832, for compensation of their revolutionary service, the settlement of which

the United States, assumed by that act. And if in the act of 30 May 1836, in repealing the prohibitory act of 1828, was a mandate to pay Joseph Ramsay.
It is worthy of remark, that this claim of the United States, against Ramsay, was a collateral demand . It had no connexion with the Pension. no more than if the obligation had existed 50 or 60 years ago. whether for a defalcation or fraud of any other description, or failure of any kind, to the U.S. If mistake , will not justify the withholding a pension, to rectify errors in former payments, of the same transaction or account current, how can a collateral demand be brought in, as an offset to a Pension?
But it may be said, the debt due by Ramsay originated in a fraud upon the U.S., and that constituted the difference, between his, & other cases, of over-payment.
Mr. Ramsay might safely admit the principle, as no one pretends that Joseph Ramsay perpetrated any fraud on the Govt. - He was the first to communicate the facts to the Govt. and to enquire how it was that so large a sum had been paid to him - it is admitted by the Court, which gave a decree against him, - by the Department and by Congress that Ramsay had committed no fraud. Will it be contended, that because others committed a fraud in his name, that he shall be put in the degraded catalogue of felons, & made to share their punishment? As long as there was a seeming priority between them, he could not complain at being made to share their condemnation, but the moment, it is admitted, he did not participate in their guilt, he becomes emancipated from the contagion, and while

(5) he may still be held liable, pecuniarily , for their act, it is the liability as for a common debt, freed from the guilt of fraud; and confessedly, no set-off to the pension — Surely it will not be contended that Joseph Ramsay, when exonerated, as he has been from all participation in the fraud in fact, shall still be held as more culpable and thereby be put in a worse condition, than Capt. Vernon, or Lieut. Palmer, who had, each, drawn, upon their own affidavits & the evidence they filed, nearly double as much as they were entitled to receive.
But it is submitted, that if Ramsay had by fraud obtained money from the U. S. in a collateral matter of compensation 10 - 20 - or 50 years ago, it would be no set-off to his pension . Confessedly due — The opinions of the Atty. Genl. have not gone that far. They have decided cases, not suspected of fraud, and an inference may be drawn, that in cases of fraud, their opinions might be different — but they have not said so — nor have they intimated that a collateral demand, even if it originated in fraud, could be off-set to the Pension under act 7 June '32.
Whatever the common law may have been, in authorizing an set-off to a pension, that law could not apply to the pension under the act of 1832, as that act expressly stated the pension should, inure to the personal benefit of the officer, and not be liable to any kind of legal process. The Power of Congress so to limit its bounty, cannot be denied — nor could its intention have been more explicitly declared. Besides, the act of 25 Jan'y 1828, went at least as far as the common law, could have gone & thereby superseded it, in the cases to which it extended, Yet this law, it was declared in the act of 20 May 1836 should not be construed to extend to any pensioner.

(6) To say this general expression of Any pensioner means such pensioners only as were not indebted by fraudulent acts, is legislation — not a judicial or executive act.
The act of 20 May 1836 exonerates all pensioners — in as mandatory terms as could be framed.
But it may be said, the pension certificate was actually issued and applied in part of the judgment & it would be paying a second time, if a new certificate were now issued.
I will not repeat the argument in my letter of 18 Feb. 1847 on this point — but beg leave to refer to it. I think it is conclusive.
1 st that no certificate was ever delivered to Ramsay.
2 nd that the Department expressly ordered, it should not be delivered, but might be credited against the judgment.
3 rd that Joseph Ramsay had no authority or control over the certificate so as to transfer or assign it — &
4 th That Joseph S. Ramsay had actually collected the money, he had no authority to deprive his widow of it by will or otherwise. She claiming it, under the Pension act of 1832.
Again — it is said Congress, in releasing St. Ramsay from all further liability, had sanctioned the application of the pension in part payment of the judgment.
Mrs Ramsay, does not claim any thing, under the act of release in 1845. She claims under the act of 1832. and that her right is a vested one under that act, & is independent of the act of 1845. Altho Congress was no doubt acquainted with the facts of the case, she insists, a fair interpretation of the " release of all further liability " in the act of 1845, means a release of all further liability, after the application of the just, legal credits , now existing — and did not mean that any other credits should be claimed, before the release should be applied.

(7) Ramsay had paid back in money, more than the amount he had received from Price & McCamant, and Congress being satisfied of his honest & upright conduct in the affair, released him from all further liability - but provided that Price & McCamant should not be released.
The fair inference is, the money received by them & not by Ramsay is to be made out of them, & if it shall be recovered from them, there would be no pretext for withholding the pension now claimed. It thus seems this pension is withheld as a security, till the judgment shall be satisfied out of Price & McCamant.
Suppose them wealthy & fully able to satisfy the judgment, could they claim credit against the judgment it for the amount of the pension now withheld? against the remonstrances of the widow, who avers her husband had no power to transfer it or mortgage it and not having actually recd it, could not by will deprive her of it.
For these & other reasons, I humbly think, the amount of pension withheld from Lt. Ramsay & intended to be applied to the judgment, was due him, at the time of his death, and should now be paid to his widow.
I am Y. Obt servt
Thomas Green

Payment to be made at by Agent for paying Pension= ers in the Agency of
Recorded in the Pension Office, in Book Vol. Page by Clerk.

Staunton Va. May 5. 1845
The Hon d .
James L. Edwards
Commissioner of Pensions,
Sir
Congress having relieved Joseph Ransay from any further payment of the Judgement in favour of the U. S. against him, I presume that it would be proper to rescind the instructions given to the Pension Agent at Richmond to pay to me only —
Mr. Ransay has given a Power of Attorney to another Gentleman, and You will please do what is proper touching the premises,
Very Respectfully Your Obedt. Servt, James. Point-

June 24. 1842
Statement of the account of the U States against Joseph Ramsey, furnished by James Pault, marshal of the W. Dist. of Va.
James J. Cochran Esq. Commission of Pension Washington D.C.
FREE

May 7 1845.
Mr
To Hon. J. P. Kennedy Vash
no 31767
Louis L. Edwards
The Govt says and amend the letter etc.
the receipt etc. enclosed
Commission of Pension Washington City D.C.

Copy
War Department Pension Office Aug. 28. 1834
Sir
The declaration of Joseph Ramsay is herewith returned for amend- ment. He must swear positively and explicitly as to the duration of his service. His reference to documentary evidence to supply the defect in his affidavit is inadmissible.
I am very Respectful Sir Wm. H. St. (P) J. L. Edwards
John W. Price Esq Richmond, Virginia

Aug 28.
Ms
Ms
Honble James L. Edwards Com r of Pensions Washington City

Richmond 26 th Aug: 1834
Hon ble
James L. Edwards
Dr Sir
I herewith enclose the declaration Lieutenant Joseph Ramsey made in conformity with the regulations under the Act of Congress of the 7 th June 1832. in order to obtain the benefit of a pension of full pay under that act.
The Documentary evidence of his services are already on file in your Department. which sustains the truth of the declaration. As Lieut. Ramsey's claim is now established and the Regulations complied with You will please to enclose the certificate to me as early as convenient on the

on the receipt of this communication in order that the old officer may receive as early as possible the amount to which he is entitled.
Respectfully
Your off. servant
John H. Price

War Department Pension Office Aug. 28. 1834
(Copy)
Sir
The declaration of Joseph Ramsey is herewith returned for amendment. He must swear positively and explicitly as to the duration of his service. He is referred to documentary evidence to supply the defect in his affidavit is inadmissible.
I am, Very Respectfully Yr. Mr. At. Sec
John H. Price Esq Richmond Virginia
Ms. A. 9. 2. 33

Recd 9 Oct 1834.
1182
887
War Department Pension Office Oct 9. 1834
Sir
On the 2 d inst. I had the honor of submitting to you a copy of a Statement made by Mr. G. Singleton, Agt. U. S. Money for the Western District of Virginia, in relation to the fraud committed on the Treasury Department in the case of Joseph Ramsey, under the act of July 5. 1832. This morning I received another letter from Mr. Singleton on the same subject, a copy of which I herewith enclose
I have the honor to be Very Respectfully Yr. mo. obedt. Servt. J. L. Edwards
Hon. L. Woodbury Secretary of the Treasury

1187
Take partial measure above for horizontal to
Oct. 9 - 234 - Duhins

Copy In
Staunton Oct 5. 1831.
In communicating to you in my last from this place, the facts touching the fraud that had hitherto been practiced upon the Government by Mr. Ramsey of Wythe county, Mr. M c Camant of Grayson & a Mr. Price of Richmond in obtaining for the former $7.500. as commutation pay, and asking instructions in reference to the said fraud. I omitted to point out the double remedy (either of which might be resorted to) for the recovery of the money. They are first. an action of assumpsit against Ramsey alone, upon his power of attorney the money was drawn. the claim passed to his sole and separate benefit. Therefore he is liable for the whole amount, and I understand is able to pay it.
Secondly, a bill in Chancery against Ramsey, M c Camant and Price charging the fraud and combination (which charges are susceptible of proof) can be sustained, a decree for an account and interest would be rendered against them, and in this way Ramsey could recover from M c Camant & Price the $5000 retained by them as compensation for prosecuting his (Ramsey's) claim.
If it be true (as I really believe it is) that Ramsey has been imposed upon by his dishonest agents, then it is but fair, that the Government should afford him a chance of compelling them to disgorge, by pursuing the latter course for the recovery

1185.
of the money. Some little delay might be produced, but the recovery would in all probability be rendered more certain, because they would be held jointly and severally bound.
You will therefore please direct which of the two remedies pointed out shall be pursued for the recovery of the money. — I have been for five days engaged in the trial of one criminal against whom I have four verdicts two more remain to be tried, therefor — I shall in all probability occupy some eight or ten days by the way, Mr. Camant is an ex member of the Virginia House of Delegates, and clerk of the Superior Court of Law and Chancery for Grayson County, and a practising attorney at Law. Mr. Price I understand is one of the Prussian agents at Richmond, on a grand scale.
Very Respectfully
Yr. Abt. S.
(Yr) W. D. Singleton
James L. Edwards Esq Comm. of Pensions Washington City

Nov. 1. 1834 Clarksbury October 29. 1834 909
To the Hon. Levi Woodbury Secretary of the Treasury
Sir
Yours of the 21 st Inst. has been received - on looking into the Virginia Resolutions of May 1799. I find that the officers claiming under the provisions therein contained, have their option to take five years full pay, or half pay for life -
In the case of Joseph Ramsey, it is important that I should be informed upon what principle his claim has been settled - if he has selected to take the half pay for life, then I should be further informed whether his claim has been fully settled, and if not, whether he will continue to draw during life. That is in case his claim was a good one - it is also necessary to have John & Price's receipt for the money drawn on Ramsey's Power of attorney, which you will please forward to this place, duly authenticated.
Very Respectfully
Your ob t Serv t
W. G. Singleton
No of claim 171 - 22 Apr 83. to 4 March 1831 - 6 March - 1834 -
Mt. No 8691. March 8 - 7657.96.
Amount now 41 84.

Washington 8 May 1846
Col. J. L. Edwards.
Sir.
Mrs. Ramsay, the widow of Lieut. L. Ramsay, has obtained a small increase of her husband's pension allowed him under at 1832.
As her attorney I filed the papers. Mr. T. J. Boyd, her neighbor & attorney is now in the City & thinks she is entitled to a larger increase — for has allowed for his service as an officer for 16 mo. 28 days — the residue of the 2 yrs. as a private . We think we can show at least 22 months actual service as a Lieut.
My object in desiring to see the papers, is to see how it was, the allowance was made for 16 mo. 28 days days, only .
I am Yr. Ob. Servt
Thomas Green

21.19
\begin{array}{r} 24 \ 320 - \\ 21 \\ \hline 320 \\ 640 \\ \hline 6720 \quad (280 \\ 48 \\ \hline 192 \\ 192 \\ \hline \end{array}

Col. J. L. Edwards Washington.
Richmond 24 th Oct. 1846.
Sir.
I now enclose you, the original Rolls, from the Federal Court in Western Virginia - to sustain the application of Joseph Ramsay, widow  Exonerated children for the increase of Pension on account of his services from 29 May to 1 November 1780.
They were obtained, by an order of the Court because you could not admit the printed or any other copy, as a personal inspection of the originals only could satisfy you, as to the degree of weight to be given them.
I send also, a copy of my letter of 30 th April 1846 to Thomas J. Boyd, to show what would be the increase if this evidence be satisfactory. Viz: $64.33 1 / 3 per year from 4 March 1831 to 16 June 1845 -
It may facilitate your calculations by calling to your mind the facts of the case.
The two rolls, strengthen & identify each other.
I am Yours Very Respectfully Thomas Green

3 Schutt Jos Ramsay J296 V65
Nov 7. 1839 Navy Dept Col. M c Neel 18 th Oct 31. 1839 Respectfully referred to the Secretary of the Navy War Dept.
Oct 31 1839 War Dept.
J. P. Pearson Offic. Washington D.C.
Dear Sir,
The above from Mr. Ramsay of the Navy Dept. is respectfully referred to you as Secretary of the War Dept.
Yours J. P. Pearson

W W W
Myrtle 16. House Oct 24 1837
To The Hon. Lewis Woodberry Secretary of The Treasury for the United States Sir,
Enclosed I beg leave to submit to your consideration the Declaration of Joseph Ramsay to obtain the benefits of the act of Congress passed June 7 1832. I have no doubt but that the statements in the declaration are true & can be fully sustained. His name is found in the army records of this State he has in his possession his pay rolls as stated in the declaration which I have examined & believe to be genuine. There is also a paper found in the records of the army for this State which re- presents Ramsay as one of the officers in the 2d Pennsylvanian Regiment who had received certificates of full pay up to the 31st Dec 1781 which seems to negative the idea of his relinquishing as early as he states in his declaration. It seems to me possible he may have become superannuary from the fact that the revo- lution took place in November 1775 by an act of the Pa. Legisla- ture Ramsay is one of the officers reported by the Commissioner on the part of this State to examine the army records as entitled to Land Bounties & same therefore by equal right to be entitled to the benefits of the act of 7 June 1832 for half pay. An answer to this at as early a time as possible would be gratefully acknow- ledged By
Yours your Most Obedt Servant Ben. Rush Floyd
To the Hon. Lewis Woodberry Washington City D.C.

Hee
Yr. W. Lawrence acting Comdr of Penn
Washington
March 3

W. G. Harris Mar 26 1840
Sir
The evidence of Mr Ramsay's Security & the records proof of his service U.S District Court for the Western District of Virginia & cannot be withdrawn until the sitting of that Court in April. Then original papers were withdrawn from the Department for the Treasury having been filed there by Ramsay's Agents who obtained his half Pay - May I ask that those papers be consi- dered by the acting agent for Pensions with the reception of Anthony Crockett's affidavit which if true would settle the question as to Ramsay's claim here. I do not think proper to submit it as a doubt whether it was fairly procured - If copies are retained they will be found in the year 1835 or 6 - if those copies will answer instead of the original papers or file here - please let me know at as early a period as possible -
Respectfully
Your Olt
Secy
Rev. Richd. Floyd

case of Joseph Ramsey Vallie 32 at $ 225:33 per Annum.
How much does the pension now amount to?
What expenses are incurred in its collection and application in payment of the claim?
Who receives it?
Where is it paid?
Whether a certificate has ever issued in Ramsey's favor for the pension? If so, who has it?
How much has been paid from other means.
I wish in fine a full and detailed statement showing the amount & date of the claim & each sum paid for when, by whom & from what fund.

1855. 52 84. 66 2300 84 has a rough 1000 for the OAKS. $ 5304.18
Some for $7658.96 was for farm 12th March 1854 & 1855 - the cost there was a sum of 153.24 - what the subsequent costs of household consumption and house not known at the office - the whole book collection of spend over is $5304.18-
$2253.29 112.66 112.66 $2027.97
13 Dec 1841 to 15 July 1841 to 31 Oct 1840 to 31 Dec 1840 14.11.41 80 do Bal Due $5304.18
Bal $7658.96 Credit { uncollected } 4304.18
225 33 2027.97
Bal $7658.96

Debt $ 7658:96
225 33 9 2027:97
March 1840, Oct 1840.
Debt $7658:96
Credit { 4304:18 unacot.
Bal Due $8354:78
  31 Oct 1840 to Janu. Point, atty _____ $2027:97   15 July 1841 to do _____ 112:66   13 Dec 1841 to do 48/11/41 _____ 112:66   $2,253:29 
Amount of $7658 36 was paid by Mr. [unclear] - the [unclear] [unclear] - [unclear] - [unclear] [unclear] - [unclear] - [unclear] [unclear] - [unclear] - [unclear] [unclear] - [unclear] - [unclear] [unclear] - [unclear] - [unclear] [unclear] - [unclear] - [unclear]
31 Oct 40 to [unclear] $ 178 2027:97 79 178 7.9 178

1 Department of the Interior Washington July 12 th 1851.
Sir
In the case of the widow of Joseph Ramsey submitted with your letter of the 12 th ult. I am of opinion that I am precluded from any action in the case by the proceedings heretofore had by the Secretary of War.
The money due on the pension has already been paid, - true it was paid to the Marshal of Virginia, and not to the party himself, but there is nothing to show that the application made of the money, was not made with Ramsey's sanction.
Congress passed a law for his relief and in that law, released him from the balance due on the judgment, and it is not improbable that the very fact that he had been deprived of the benefit of the pension was the inducement which led to the release.
I see no remedy, at all events, except by an application to Congress for such further relief as it may think due to him.
You will please communicate this decision to the Attorney of Mrs Ramsey.

Very Respectfully Your Obedient Servant Alex. H. H. Stuart Secretary
Commissioner of Pensions

Dec 5 th 45.
Mary A. Ramey St Francis R.R.
Mr. J. L. Salem Comr of Pensions Wash. D.C. Per J. M. Hopkins, H. B.

Washington City Dec 3rd 1825.
Sir
I enclose herewith the petition of Mrs. Ramsey, widow of Joseph Ramsey late of Wythe county Va. asking for an increase of her pension &c. Your early attention to the matter will oblige me.
Very truly yours
Geo. M. Hopkins

Office of the Solicitor of the Treasury
May 6. 1840
Sir,
The enclosed letter from Mrs. Ramsey to you has been this day received under cover of a letter from the U States Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia of which I also enclose a copy. If the claim of Mr. Ramsey for a pension under the act of 7 th June 1832 has been allowed, it is desirable that the amount which may be due him should be applied in part payment of the judgment against him and others to recover back the amount fraudulently obtained from the Treasury on a claim for half pay. and I have to request that you will furnish me with such form of Power of Attorney as it may be necessary for him to execute to enable the Department to make the application.
Very respectfully yours
J V Edwards Esq Comm t of Pensions
M Binchard Solicitor of the Treasury

Pension Office, May 14. 1840.
Sir,
I herewith return the papers which you sent to this Office, in the case of Joseph Armstrong. This Department cannot adjudicate his claim until we are fully satisfied that the judgments obtained in the U. S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia has been satisfied. The pension he claims, if allowed, would probably amount to $2000.
I am, Very respectfully, Your Obt. Servt.
J. L. Edwards
M. Birchard, Esq. Solicitor of the Treasury.

L 252
P
23 Jan.
Prussian Officer.
See action with

Pension Office, June 23. 1840
Sir,
I have the honor to inform you that I have examined the claim of Joseph Ramsay, under the act of the 7 th of June 1832; and I find that he is entitled to a pension of $ 225 33 / 100 per annum, commencing on the 4 th of March 1831. From that period up to the date of the last semi-annual pay-day, the sum due will amount to $ 2027 97 / 100 .
Under the rules of this office I cannot issue a certificate, without authority from you, as he is indebted to the United States on a judgment obtained in the District Court of the United States for the Western District of Virginia for upwards of $7,000. If, however, you will issue an order on the back of this letter, directing a certificate to be issued and handed to Mr. Points the Marshall, in order that the pension may be applied to the payment of the debt, I can see no objection to this course, provided Mr. Points will present to the Pension Agent the vouchers

usually required of the attorney of a Pensioner.
I have the honor to be,
Very respectfully,
Your obt. servt.
J. L. Edwards
with the Certificate if you & be rendered to Mr. Poinsett as herewith recommended
J. R. Poinsett
Hon. J. R. Poinsett, Secretary of War.

Office of the Solicitor of the Treasury.
May 6. 1840.
Sir,
The inclosed letter from Joseph Ramsay to you has this day been received under cover of a letter from the U. States Attorney for the Western District of Virginia, of which I also inclose a copy. If the claim of Mr. Ramsay for a pension under the Act of 7 th June 1832 has been allowed, it is desirable that the amount which may be due him should be applied in part payment of the judgment against him & other, to recover back the amount fraudulently obtained from the Treasury on a claim for half pay, and I have to request that you will furnish me with such form of power of Attorney as it may be necessary for him to execute, to enable the Department to make the application.
Very respectfully &c.
(Signed) M. Birchard Solicitor of the Treasury
W.
J. L. Edwards Esq. Commr. of Pensions.

W. J. the Ct House Apr 22 1840
To the Commissioner of Pensions
Sir -
Some time since I made application for the benefits of the act of Congress passed 7 June 1832. but as yet have not been able to learn whether my claim has been passed upon. If it should be allowed I desire that the amount may be credited on a claim which the Government has recovered against my Agents John H. Price & Samuel Mills and myself for money said to have been fraudulently obtained from the Government by them on account of my services as a Soldier in the Revolution. If the claim is allowed I desire as above stated that the amount may be credited on the said claim. This letter will be handed you or forwarded to you by Mr Bainton who is the Marshal for this District.
Respectfully
Your Obedt Servant
Joseph Marray

Collector's Office Richmond, Va December 12 th 1820.
Received of James Points Marshall of the Western District of Virginia, the sum of Eighty Four dollars 66 2/3 which he says was paid him by Joseph Ramsey in part of a judgement rendered against him in the United States Court, holden at Wythe Court House V a for money fraudulently obtained from the United States for Revolutionary services.
Thomas Nelson, Coll.
Collector's Office, Richmond, Va Nov: 23 rd 1820.
Received of James Points, Marshal of the Western District of Virginia, the sum of Eighteen Hundred and thirty five 32 / 100 Dollars; (which he says was paid him by Joseph Ramsey in part of a judgement rendered against him in the United States Court, holden at Wythe Court House V a , for money fraudulently obtained from the United States for Revolutionary services)
H. D. Nelson, D. Coll.

$2000 Treasury Notes 300 Cash
Collector's Office, Richmond March 10 th 1841.
Received of James Points Marshal of the Western District of Virginia the sum of Two Thousand dollars in Treasury notes and Three hundred dollars in Cash making Seventy Three hundred dollars in the whole, which he says was paid him by Joseph Ramsey in part of a judgement rendered against him in the United States Court, held at Wythe Court House Va for money fraudulently obtained from the United States for Revolutionary services Thomas Nelson, Coll.
Collector's Office, Richmond July 13 th 1841
Received of James Points Marshal of the Western District of Virginia the sum of eighty four dollars, which he says was paid him by Joseph Ramsey in part of a judgement rendered against him in the United States Court held at Wythe Court House Va for money fraudulently obtained from the United States for Revolutionary services H. F. Nelson. A. Bell,

(Copy)
$ 1835. 52 / 100 .
Collector's Office, Richmond, Va.
Nov. 23. 1840.
Received of James Points, Marshal of the Western District of Virginia, the sum of Eighteen hundred & thirty five 52 / 100 Dollars (which he says was paid him by Joseph Ramsey in part of a judgment rendered against him in the United States Court held at Wythe Court House, Va. for money fraudulently obtained from the United States for revolutionary services.)
(Signed) H. T. Nelson, D. Coll.

[Copy of the Second Comptroller's endorsement on the back of the Wouchers of Joseph Ramsey, a Pensioner on the Virginia roll, under the Act of June 7. 1832.]
Treasury Department, Second Comptroller's Office, July 20. 1840.
The Pension Agent at Richmond, Va may pay the amount of pension due Joseph Ramsey up to the 1 st of March 1840 to James Potts, or his order upon the within papers, the omission of an additional attests other than the magistrate, to the power, being hereby dispensed with.
(Signed) Albin K. Parris, Comptroller.

July 20 1840
Con.
Mr. Ramsay Wash
all
A
James L. Edwards Esq. Commission of Pensions Washington City D.C.

Richmond Va. July 17. 1840. Lt. L. Edwards Esq. Commissioner of Pensions
Sir, I transmitted to Lt. Ramey his certificate, with the forms, & instructions you gave me, and he has returned to me the certificate (as directed) and the enclosed Power of attorney, I have just presented it to the Pension Agent, to receive the money and pay it over to the U.S. in part-discharge of the judgment-8, but unfortunately R. Crockett the Magistrate refused the power of attorney to me - and notwithstanding your special letter to him, and relation of all the circumstances, touching the premises, he says it must go back, and be corrected.
My official duties - among others, the Circuit court commencing on the 1 st of Aug. t and the District Courts on the 1 st of Sept. will make it exceedingly inconvenient for me to come to Richmond again to attend to this matter. And as the money is only to be received by me and forthwith to pay it over to the U.S. can you not arrange the whole matter at Washington City, and I enclose the paper to you, that any endorsement may be made for me to sign, that yourself - or Judge Birchard - Solicitor - may receive the money, and pay it over to the U.S. and I be directed to endorse a credit upon the F. C. Bond for the amount so paid, and thereby save me another trip to Richmond, and should the arrangement

not be made to pay at Washington, can't you direct the Pension Agent here to pay to me on my order, that will save me a trip to Richmond, and by my Agent the business can be done,
I presume that you will dispense with the necessity of sending the paper back to Wythe, to have another signature - than R. Brockell as witness to the power of attorney,
Very Respectfully Your obt. Servt James Poind
Please write me at Staunton Va.

act of Congress -
Joseph Ramsey, dec d .
Va
Act 7 June 32
for increased detached rolls -
$ 16.28 5.4
adhd 22.2
$294.22.22.28 d t 6.44 1.28 private
300.66 $ deducted what was paid to 16 June 45 when he died -
To Mary Ann Ram- -sey his wife -
Filed 12 April 1845 by
Th. Green
Richmond Va

State of Virginia Wythe County } to wit:
I, John P. Matthews, Clerk of the County Court of Wythe County in the State of Virginia, do certify, that Robert Sawyer, before whom the foregoing affidavit was sworn and subscribed, was, at the time said affidavit was made, and still is, an acting Magistrate of said County of Wythe, duly commissioned, and that the foregoing signature purporting to be his is genuine.
In testimony whereof, I have hereunto Subscribed my name and affixed the Seal of the said Court, this 8 th day of March in the year 1845.
J. P. Matthews, Clerk of the County Court of Wythe County By Andrew Thompson D.C.

The petition of Joseph Ramsay of Myrtle County in the state of Virginia:
Respectfully states; that some years ago, he was allowed a pension under the Act of Congress of 7 th June 1832, for services as a soldier and officer in the War of the Revolution - that he has never enjoyed the personal benefit of said pension, the same having gone to the satis- faction of a decree against this petitioner a certain John H. Price and a certain Samuel McLean and, some years ago obtained by the United States in the Federal District court for the Western District of Virginia held at Myrtle court house - that he is advised, that, according to the pro- visions of said Act of 7 th June 1832, it was not proper to apply his pension in satisfaction of said decree, whether with or without the consent and approbation of the petitioner, it being the evident design of Congress, from the provisions of the said Act, that the bounty given by it, should be exclusively for the personal use and en- joyment of the objects of that bounty. The petitioner is also advised, that, by a recent Act of Congress, he and his securities have been relieved from the payment of the balance of said decree; and he would respectfully submit the question, whether the relief under this Act does not ex- tend, under a fair and reasonable construction, to such bal- ance of said decree as would exist after applying all pay- ments made thereon, exclusive of the aforesaid pension. The petitioner has paid back, in satisfaction of the said decree, exclusive of his said pension and a con- siderable amount in costs, every dollar he received of the Half Pay, which had been drawn by Price. He thinks, that, in justice, he ought to be allowed to enjoy his full pension; and under all circumstances, he asks that the same be refunded to him, if it can be done under a fair construction of the said pension Act. The petitioner is also advised, that the length and character of his services aforesaid (as fully shown by evidence on file in the War Department in Washington city, and to be found in the record of the papers and proceedings in the suit in which the aforesaid decree was obtained), entitle him to a larger amount of pay, annually, under the said Act of 7 th June 1832, than has been

been allowed to him. He, therefore, prays, that his annual pay, or pension, under said Act, may be increased and allowed to the full extent, which the length and character of his services, aforesaid, will justify; and that the whole said pay, or pension, including such increase, be paid to him, from the 4 th day of March 1831 to the present time, and annually hereafter to his death. And as in duty bound he will ever pray &c.
Joseph his mark Ramsey
State of Virginia
Wythe County, to wit:
This day Joseph Ramsey, of the said County of Wythe, personally appeared before the subscriber, an acting justice of the peace in and for said County and State, and subscribed and swore to the foregoing petition, as containing the truth to the best of his knowledge and belief; the said Ramsey being unable to write his name, himself, from infirmity and something of paralysis. and I further certify that I am, and have been, for a number of years, well acquainted with the said Ramsey, and that he is the identical person, who, as is the understanding of the neighbourhood and country, has heretofore been allowed Half Pay and a pension, and against whom and a certain John H. Price and Samuel W. Leamant, the United States, some years ago, obtained a decree in the Federal District Court held at Wythe Court house for the amount of said Half Pay. Given under my hand this 8 th day of March 1845.
Robert Sayers J.P.

Copy
Wytheville 1 st May 1 st 1845
Dear Sir
By last mail I received your favor of the 29 th ult. It does seem strange to me that the Commissioner of Pensions should hesitate to allow a pension for 22 March as I think. The proof I believe is full to show that length of service at the least. Should not the Secretary of War take up the case and decide it accordingly to the evidence? And how can there be a difficulty in restoring to Mr. Ramsay so much of his pension as has been applied to the decree against him since and the Warrant? Up to this day he has not been allowed to draw one dollar of his pension. Even the payment due the 1 st day of March past (after the Law of which has passed) he cannot allow to draw. I have already informed you that the pension act in Richmond refused to pay, and said that he had been instructed to pay to the Marshall and to no other person. The provisions of the pension act of June 1832 are familiar to you - can there be a doubt, that not only its spirit, but even its strict letter has been violated.
If wrong has been done and the law has been violated, then the true balance of the decree, from which the law has given relief, is that part which would be unpaid, if no part of the pension had been applied, and it should be restored; would not the Secretary of War feel himself bound to take this view of the case. It does not seem to me, that he could not fail to order restoration. The pensioners of this County have generally been able to draw their half yearly payments through the Marshalls of the country without its arrearages are sent for the Marshalls trouble, some Commissioner (Marshalls of Richmond, who are business for the Marshalls of the country, being generally under the Attorney's feet. In Mr. Ramsay's case, he was not only denied the privilege of using his pension for his own pecuniary benefit, and of selecting some Attorney who would draw for him, without expense to him, but he was forced to make the Marshall his Attorney after him to retain a large portion for trouble of drawing, and then be forced to let the balance be applied to the decree. From what I learn from the Deputy Marshall, it is likely that a large portion, perhaps all, of the pension for year ending 1 st March past, is to be applied to some liabilities of Mr. Ramsay other than the decree, that is the balance after paying expenses of drawing. If the Secretary of War should incline to restore this every dollar, that has been returned by the Marshall to compensate him for trouble & expenses of drawing, as well as all that has been applied to the decree should be restored to him. As to the last Warrant, I presume there would be no difficulty in getting copy attested for it. That is a suspended case (in file) and copy could be drawn, I suppose, under the application of 3 rd March 1835. I address to Mr. Ramsay in a day or two and make enquiry for the evidence you desire. And if the Marshall has given up to him his pension Certificate, I will get it from him and enclose it to the Commissioner of Pensions as you request.
Please lose no time in having every attention given to Mr. Ramsay's claim and let me hear from you at your earliest convenience. Very respectfully Y rs &c. B. S. Thos. I. Boyd
To Thomas Greer Esq of Richmond Now in Washington City

7 Hannibal Mo. June 2. 0. 1862.
Sir
Your letter of the 11th Inst. I found on my return this day. My absence from home is the cause of the delay of an answer. The statement you desire is as follows. Sir.
Amount of decree vs. Joseph Ramey & others $7638.95 Interest from 12.10.1834 till 12.10.1839. 2593.83 " " 4th Dec 11th Dec. 1839. 8.93 Costs in Execution 15.24 2 series 4th Dec 1839. 92.55 Com. d $204.94 - Taking at coming Bond 63.85 212.12 $10627.08 Levied on Joseph Ramey's Land & Chancery property & from the sale of Land & Chancery property, Robert Gibbony Dep. Marshal made the sum of 927.53 $9699.55
For this amount Joseph Ramey gave a delivery Bond with John P. Matthews & Robert Kent as securities, which was forfeited, and a Judgement was awarded, and an execution issued which was levied by Robert Gibbony my Dep. & the sale of property advertised, at which time I received from the District Attorney (Mr. S. Singleton Esq.) instruction to suspend further proceedings on the execution and return it to the Office upon Joseph Ramey paying $3540. the amount he had received from his Agent Geo. H. Price, which amount was paid to Robert Gibbony in the fall of 1840 and the execution was accordingly returned,

Statement of the Judgment on for the coming board.
  Debt. $9599.55   Interest from 11 th Dec. 1839 till 9 th June 1840. 366.77 3/4   Costs in Execution 31.50 3/4   Marshals levies off. Mileage 900 th board, $216.15 223.05   $10320.98 
Joseph Ramsey paid to Robt. Gilbray my Deputy in the fall of 1840 $251.00
  J. Ramsey paid to James Pointh Nov. 23. 1840 from his pension $1855.52   " " " " " " " " " " Dec. 14. 1840 from his pension 84.66   " " " " " " " " " " July 15. 1841. " " " " 84.00   $4544.18 
From sale of S. U. B. amount prop d - as above - $927.53 Whole Amount rec d on Execution $5471.71
Paid out as follows. viz
  To W. B. Singleton Dist d Attorney upon the order of the Solicitor of the Treasury as per rec d of 4 th of May 1840. $1000.00   " Collector Richmond Nov. 23. 1840 1855.52   " " " " Dec. 14. 1840. 84.66   " " " " March 10. 1841 3500.00   " " " " July 15. 1841 84.00   $5304.18   167.53   Deduct notice on fortherms Bond & Mileage 6.90   $160.63 
In the above statement, I believe, I have furnished all the information desired, and which is taken from the papers in my possession.
Very Respectfully, Your Obedient Servant James Pointh Marshal of the W. D. Virginia

1179 A. true Copy. September 22 d 1834
Harold Smyth
Note by Mr Smyth.
It will be observed that this declaration from these Minutes was sworn to and forwarded to the War Office and returned for informality, that in January, February or March, the applicant having been induced to go for a different claim by the advice of Mr McCamant of Grayson County Virginia and perhaps Mr Price of Richmond, the applicant (Ramsey) asked to let Mr McCamant manage the claim. Mr McCamant applied to Harold Smyth for the declaration and he gave it up with the objections to Mr McCamant, who remarked that he was going to try get "old Ramsey his land". Harold Smyth afterwards learnt from Mr McCamant that he had obtained scrip for Ramsey's land. in the last of July or first of August 1834 as Mr Price from Richmond came to the County of Wythe to Ramsey's residence and paid him as was understood $2,500 it being one third of Cumulative pay obtained by the joint exertions of him Price and McCamant, and Price stated to Ramsey, as Ramsey said that he must allow two thirds to them McCamant and Price, which was retained. Price told Ramsey "I am the boy to manage these things" You would not give $100 fees etc. etc. Mr Ramsey had no idea of obtaining half pay, he showed a letter from Price to himself enumerating the many and great difficulties in the way as inducement to a large proportion to the claim if received, and in that letter expressly stated that his Ramsey's name "appeared no where on the roll of the Virginia line after 1780. Nov 1 st ". McCamant in a conversation with Harold Smyth at August Court for Wythe County 1834. stated that he yet had Ramsey's declaration

Minutes from which Joseph Ramsey's declaration was drawn in 1833 and which declaration was sworn to in the County Court at Wythe County at the term 1833 and by Harrold Smyth forwarded to the War Office through Mr. Fulton Member of Congress from this District, and which was returned and by said Smyth given up to Samuel M c Camant in February or March or January 1834. -
Joseph Ramsey. 72 years old Spring of 1778 enlisted in the Virginia line in the company of John Montgomery, Capt in Montgomery County near Wythe, marched to Harrodsburg Kentucky thence to Falls of Ohio, there joined Col George Clarke, Major Jas. Barran, thence to Illinois - Kaskaskia and was at the taking of that post. enlisted for the expedition, returned in the fall of 1778 in company of Cap. Montgomery. Montgomery went on to the seat of Government. In January 1779. (he Ramsey) was commissioned Lieut n in a Reg t authorized to be raised by Montgomery then appointed Col, and marched in the Spring of 1779. to join Gen Clarke, took water at the large Islands of Tennessee and went by water down the Tennessee and up the Mississippi to the mouth of Illinois and thence to Kaskaskia and there joined Clarke, thence started to Detroit, but the expedition failed at Vincennes, thence returned home, and after arriving at home commenced recruiting under instructions from Mr. Jefferson then Governor of Virginia, for three years or during the war, was at White Station at the head Mingo with recruits and resigned 1 st Nov r 1780. gave up his commission to Gen Clarke, afterward in February 1781. went as a volunteer to North Carolina under Col William Preston, was in two major skirmishes with the troops of Cornwallis on the Alamance, does not remember when he left the service.

1180. and Harold Smyth charged him to preserve it Signed Harold Smyth A true copy W. G. Singleton
W. G. Singleton whilst in attendance upon the Federal Court at Myrtle Court House in September 1834. Having heard through various sources of the imposition practiced by Joseph Ramsey and his agents upon the Government and that Harold Smyth of said County of Myrtle was in possession of evidence touching said imposition, called on Mr Smyth who frankly and without hesitation gave him (W. G. S.) a written statement having reference to said imposition. The written statement furnished by Mr Smyth, or rather a copy thereof is hereto appended.
On the 23 d of September W. G. Singleton called on Mr Ramsey from whom he received a full confirmation of the truth of the information furnished by Mr Smyth. Mr Ramsey stated emphatically that he had resigned on the 1 st of November 1780 and he was surprised when he was informed by his agents that they had succeeded in getting him Camantation pay, "and that he had expected the Government would enquire into the matter." Mr Ramsey further stated that his declaration for a pension for Revolutionary Services, was then pending before the Commission of Pension.
Monday Morning September 29 th
This moment received from John A. Hultown. M. C. a letter under date of the 23 d inst in reference to the Ramsey case from which I give you the following extract.
Mr Ramsey called on me to day and permitted me to examine the letters from Price and McCamant. McCamant says in his under date June 29 th 1834. "for God's sake keep the fact of your resignation a secret, but a word to the wise is enough." upon my suggestion and advice

Ramsey has deposited these letters with S. P. Matthews (This gentleman occupies a standing which few have attained) for safe keeping, he persists in saying that he is wholly ignorant of the means by which his claim was allowed, that he never furnished any facts but those contained in his declaration in which he expressly stated that he had resigned . Ramsey is ignorant but honest and is entitled to the favor of the Government.
Mr Fulton writes me that he has recommended the appointment of a special Agent to enquire into the pending claims from My the County and that Col Harold Smyth has been named to the Secretary of War. I saw Mr Smyth for the first time at My the Court and from the little intercourse between him and myself, I have reason to conclude that he is a gentleman and a man of integrity. W. G. Singleton
Whether Mr Smyth is competent to the discharge of the duty of Agent in the business above referred to I am not prepared to say, nor am I prepared to say whether it would be advisable to appoint an additional Agent. If I am permitted to employ Mr Goff upon the terms mentioned in my letter accompanying this, I have no doubt of accomplishing the investigation in due time. You however are more capable of judging in this matter than I am
W. G. S.

Washington 30 th April 1846.
Mr. Thomas J. Boyd. now Present. to Sir.
In reply to your enquiry, I now state the ground of my belief that Mr. Ramsay the widow of Lieut. Jo. Ramsay is entitled to an increase of Pension, or a larger balance for his services, than has been paid her.
He was pensioned, at $225.33 - being for 16 months & 28 days service, as a Lieutenant. He has since been allowed the additional sum due him, for 2 months & 2 days as a private - making in all $249. - per annum which has been paid him from 4 March 1831. to 16 June 1845. the day of his death.
His own affidavit states, that he was (after a long service as a private) appointed a Lieutenant 12 th Jany 1779 - and continued in actual service till 1 Nov. 1780. equal to 22 months.
If this service as an officer, for 22 months, be admitted, the pension due, would be $306.66 2 / 3 . and then the residue of 2 months, (to complete the 24 months) at $6.66 2 / 3 . as a private, would give the sum of $313.33 1 / 3 . less - from which deduct $249, & there would remain $64.33 1 / 3 as a balance still due for year from 4 March 1831.
The only question then, in the case is, did he serve 22 months?
The records in Col o Edwards office show he was appointed a Lieutenant on the 1 st day of Jany 1779 and received pay till the 28 May 1780 - 16 mo. & 28 days, - On that day this Company was dissolved in all probability - I observe, from the roll printed in Report 609 1 st Regt - 26 Compys, most of the Company were paid up to that day - Lieut Ramsay has uniformly stated that he then was sent on the Recruiting service, and continued in actual service, till the 1 st day of Nov. 1780. The proof of it may be found in the same printed Report above mentioned in Stanwood's Lengthy Deposition - & the Roll therein mentioned - That Roll is filed, in the suit against Ramsay - a paper of very old date, & states the services of Ramsay from the 29 May 1780 to the 1 Nov. 1780. 5 mo. & 3 days. If this evidence, in connection with Ramsay's own statement be satisfactory, the additional sum of $64.33 1 / 3 will be allowed. It will be seen that this evidence never was before the Commissioners - as there is no reason to doubt the authenticity of the Roll there is no reason to doubt credit would have been given for it, if it had been produced. I am yr Obt Servt. Thomas Green

17918
Springfield Mo. Aug 26/22
Commissioner of Pensions: Washington D. C.
Dear Sir:
Will you please send me the Rev. war records of Joseph Ramsey Va. Lieutenants Clark's Det. Reg. 1779-1781.
William Brown (Va) Assistant Surgeon of the Flying Camp

19th to 1st Dec.
Mathew Ray (2 M.) and Acct. VII 247
And oblige
Elizabeth Ramsey Baxter
805 S Fremont Ave.
Springfield Missouri

7348
INVALID.
Reckless
1922 Sept 29. H. L. to B. P. Branton and
File No. 7348
Joseph Ramsey
for Mr. Wm
Act: June 7th 1902
Index:—Vol. 156 , Page 309
[Arrangement of 1870.]

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14 An act to carry into effect the provisions of those States with and the school re-
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Approved, February 26, 1845.
[PRIVATE--NO. 11.]
AN ACT for the relief of Joseph Ramsey.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled , That Joseph Ramsey, of Wythe county, Virginia, be, and he is hereby, discharged from all further liability upon a judgment had and now outstanding against him, John H. Price, and Samuel McCamant, in favor of the United States, in the district court of the United States for the western district of Virginia, at September term, eighteen hundred and thirty-nine, of said court: Provided , That nothing herein contained shall operate to discharge the said John H. Price and the said Samuel McCamant in any way from their liability on said judgment.
Approved, February 27, 1845.
[PRIVATE--NO. 12.]
AN ACT for the relief of Walker, Kinkle, and Caruthers.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled , That the Auditor of the Treasury for the Post Office Department state the account of Walker, Kinkle, and Caruthers, for their service in transporting the mails from the first of February, one thousand eight hundred and thirty-five, to the sixth of August,

Joseph Ramsay Lieut. Virginia State line - served 16 months & 28 days - $225 23 / 100 per ann. to commence 4 March 1831.
Richmond, Va Agency
Issue a certificate and pay to James Points, Esq. Marshal of the Western District of Va. now present. Direct the Agent to pay the money to Mr. Points & no other person, an attorney of Ras
It appears from a roll deposited in the office in Nov. 1846 that Joseph Ramsay served from 29. May 1780 to Nov. 1. 1780, making 5 months & 4 days in addition to the time heretofore established.

Joseph Ramsay. In act 7. June '32 - was sued for money improperly rec. d under act of 5. July '32 - & his accruing pension applied to the payment of the judgment - what were those pay- ments?
The pension was paid from 4 Mar 1831 to 4 Sep 1844 at $24/52 per mo - what disposition was made of M c Hayner. The Money is not known at this office SH
G. H. [Signature] 16 Apr. '45.

(T.D.D.)
Distribution, of Illinois Lands.
I shall want this paper again in a few days E.H.

Ramsey, Joseph Va. 57348

No. 31. 767. Virginia.
Joseph Ramsey, deceased, Wythe Co in the State of Va who was a Lieut. & private in the company commanded in Montgomery of the Regt commanded by Col. Clark in the Virginia
for 2 years. Increased from $225.33 per annum Incribed on the Roll of Richmond at the rate of 2118 Dollars 88 Cents per annum, to commence on the 4th day of March, 1831. & ending on the 16th June, 1840, the day of his death.
Certificate of Pension issued the 23 d day of Dec. 1845 and sent to Hon. G. W. Hopkins S.A. R.
Arrears to the 4th of Semi-annual allowance ending
$35514.83
25
{ Revolutionary Claim, } { Not June 7, 1832. }
Attested by W. H. St. Clair Clerk, P. 2 Vol. 672 Page 31-
Dec. 24. 1845. Repts. to Agent.
Dec. 24th 1845 See letter to Hon. G. W. Hopkins
July 16. 1846

Ramsey, Joseph Vol. 3 7348

Letter to J. Brackenridge Esq. 27 received April 25. June 1840 - 3 to James Paints, July 20. 1840 - to same Nov. 24. 1840.
Sum of $1835:52 has been deposited. See copy of Cert. of deposit in this
884 66 / 100 refunded by Ramsey 1/4 Dec 1840 2300. refunded by same 10 Mar 1841. a letter May 1/4. 1842 to 3 d Auditor to Hon G. W. Hopkins June 11 1842
to do do do do do do do do June 24. 1842. do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do Nov 1. 1842
do do do do do do do do 5 Mar 1845 -
do do do do do do do do 10 Mar 1845
X
Virginia 31,767
Joseph Ramsay
of Wythe Co. in the State of Virginia who was a Lieutenant in the company commanded by Captain Montgomery of the reg't. commanded by Col. Clark in the Va. State line for 16 months & 23 days
Inscribed on the Roll of Pensions at Virginia at the rate of 225 Dollars 33 Cents per to commence on the 12th day of March, 1834.
Certificate of Pension issued the 25. day of Jan 1840 and sent to James S. Esq. Marshall of the Western Dist. of Va. new press
Arrears to the 12th of March 1840 202, Semi-annual allowance ending 6 Sept. 112.6
$2143.6
{ Revolutionary Claim, } { Act June 7, 1832. }
Recorded by D. Bracken Clerk, Book 6 Vol. 67 Page 31

) with my deposition Harold Smyth April 23 rd 1836-
off
to Mansfield May 1836
Ramsey, Joseph Va. 5 7349

To Pay Roll For Lieut Joseph Ramsey of The Illinois Battalion Commanded By Colonel George Rogers Clark in the Virginia service Commencing May 29th and 1780 and ending: November 1st 1780 Inclusive
   Names and Rank Commenc- ing 1780 ending 1780 In service pay in dollars per month including subsistence Total amount in Virginia Currency error excepted   months days     Joseph Ramsey Lieut May 29th November 1st 5 4 40 61 4 11 error excepted