Gazette of the United-States. (New-York [N.Y.]), 1792-11-28 00:00:00

Gazette of the United States.
A NATIONAL PAPER, PUBLISHED WEDNESDAYS AND SATURDAYS BY JOHN FENNO, No. 34, NORTH FIFTH-STREET, PHILADELPHIA.
[No. 52 of Vol. IV.]
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 28, 1792.
[Whole No. 374.]
For the GAZETTE of the UNITED STATES.
A PUBLICATION upon the ensuing election of Vice-President of the United States, under the signature of Lucius , has appeared in the public papers. The writer introduces the subject with some remarks upon the importance of the office and the necessity of filling it with a person of competent qualification; The only competitors whose merits he investigates and between whom he supposes the decision rests, are John Adams, Esq., and Governor Clinton; he declines a view of the positive merits of the respective candidates, and inquires only against whom there are the fewest exceptions; these he reduces to a single head, against each—To Mr. Adams, the presumption of his attachment to a government by King, Lords and Commons: To Governor Clinton, his opposition to the constitution of the United States.—The former he concedes to be a serious objection and to remain in its full force; the latter he concludes is done away by the amendments, and is at any rate the least weighty of the two. After magnifying the one and diminishing the other, agreeable to his wishes, he concludes as if his premises were fully established; that if the United States wish to preserve their government as in its present form elective and limited in its powers they cannot hesitate to decide in favor of Governor Clinton. This I take to be a fair statement of the publication in question. The mode he has adopted of ascertaining the merits of the competitors is singular; instead of contrasting their talents and characters, he takes a negative view of them and gives him the preference against whom least is objected.
This mode of investigation is perhaps the least certain of any that could have been devised—It is long since observed that scandal is a tax on honest men paid for his reputation; an uniform system of principles and conduct generally insures the reproaches of malice and envy; and a man's firmness and independence of character often expose them to obloquy and detraction. I shall at present however wave a development of their characters and a comparison of their merits, and confine myself to what Lucius has advanced.
To corroborate the objection against Mr. Adams he observes, "that his writings entitled a defence of the American Constitutions and difficulties on which it depends to be examined" — I quote an Ambassador from the United States, of the first improvement and best acquainted with the nature of their constitutions, should write a book expressly in their defence and vary so much from his object as to produce an eulogium on a government of King, Lords and Commons. Does this comport with the principles of common sense? Surely Lucius must have very defective optics or his vision would be more perfect.—I can recommend him to a certain character whose skill might be of service to him in a second prospect; but I apprehend there is a weakness otherwise than in his eyes, and beyond the reach of medicine, or perhaps he claims in politics what a certain text claims in religion—the interpretation of texts by a certain light within, to which no other can have access or of course form a competent judgment. But the gentleman observes, that "if it could be supposed that doubts existed upon this point, extracts from those publications should be furnished;" and extracts only can be furnished for this purpose. How partial, how ungenerous a way of judging of one's sentiments, to select a few detached sentences from different parts of his works, and marshal them in array in defence of a doctrine which the author abhors. What cannot be proved from this mode of scrutiny? any sentiment whatever may be palmed upon an author at this rate.
It is the part of a candid critic to judge of a work in the aggregate when he hazards a general opinion of a writer; and the same rule will hold in judging of the sentiments of an author as in estimating the merit of his work.
The injustice of the construction put upon the writings of Mr. Adams will be evident to all who peruse them; the character of the author and the professed design of his works may have some influence with others. Mr. Adams was a native of the United States and warmly attached to the interests of his country; of irreproachable moral character; a strenuous advocate for the equal rights of men and among the first in disclaiming the pretensions of the British Parliament. He was a delegate to the first continental Congress and by his enlightened reason and unaffected zeal contributed much to disappoint the designs of our enemies and to encrease the number and consequence of our friends. He was afterwards ambassador from the United States to different powers in Europe.—While there, his conduct was such as entitled him the affections of his acquaintance as a man, and their esteem and respect as a public officer. The professed design of his writings was to combat the idea of concentrating the whole power of a State in a single House of Representatives; this had been made an objection to the constitutions of the American States; Our author undertook their defence, and proposed to show that a balance in the distribution of the power of any State is essential to good government: to obtain this balance he alleges that the plan upon which the greater part of the constitutions of the United States are formed, is more eligible than any which has hitherto been devised; to illustrate this he exhibits the various governments in which the principles of liberty have been in any measure
recognized, with a particular view of their construction; in which performance there is more literature and political knowledge than in any work which had then been published in this country—the result of his researches is conformable to his design, and every rational and candid examiner will acknowledge it.—Shall this be made an objection to his re-election to the Vice-Presidency? So far from it, that in my opinion the United States are indebted to him for this as well as his other labors. I am not at present disposed to say much upon Gov. Clinton's competency to the office. Whoever contrasts the two characters, either as men and citizens, patriots, politicians, or men of talents and information—must differ very widely from me in judgment, or decide in favor of Mr. Adams. As to the performance of Lucius —it bears the genuine marks of its origin; it appears to be the effusion of party spirit intended to embarrass the election by creating a diversion in favor of Governor Clinton.
Beware my countrymen of those temporizing politicians, who under pretence of advancing your interest are seeking their own consequence; do not distrust those of your fellow-citizens whose virtue you have experienced and of whose talents you are sufficiently apprized. Though Lucius , like his predecessor among the Romans sacrifice the principles of honor to the gratification of his ambition—like him I trust he will be disappointed, in his designs, and should he prosecute them the same length meet a similar fate. ANTONIUS.
From THE AMERICAN DAILY ADVERTISER.
PRO AND CON.
Arguments against the Re-election of Mr. Adams.
First. THE federal constitution, and the spirit of the people, are republican. Mr. Adams is for a government of king, lords, and commons.
Second. Since the constitution was adopted, since his election and oath to support it, his writings have laboriously endeavored to disgust his constituents with republican government, and prepare their minds for a government of king, lords, and commons.
Third. In his latest writings he has declared a strong bias towards a well ordered government, by which the whole scope of his writings, since he visited the courts of Europe, shews, that he means a government of king, lords, and commons.
These objections, more particularly at the present juncture, when the spirit of monarchy is every where waging open or secret war on the spirit of freedom, must sink deep in the mind of every true American. That they are founded in truth is well known to all who have read the several publications of Mr. Adams, on the subject of government. The quotations from these works, in the excellent pieces signed Lucius , have demonstrated, from Mr. Adams's own mouth, that he is a decided adversary to republican government; and if the constitution is to be deemed the criterion of federalism, that he is more of a real operative antifederalist, than any citizen of the United States, out of the party attached to the same monarchical tenets.
Arguments for the Re-election of Mr. Adams.
First. The name of Adams has been subscribed, along with the name of Washington, to the laws of the union—a circumstance of more real weight with an enlightened people, than any little difference between the republican principles of the one, and the monarchical principles of the other.
Second. If he is not re-elected, it may be owing partly to votes in Virginia, who, having the good fortune to furnish the citizen elected by all the states for the President, ought to have no voice in the election of a citizen of some other state for Vice-President.
Third. If he is not re-elected, it may be owing partly also to the votes of North-Carolina and South-Carolina. Now it has been very clearly, as well as very kindly shewn, by the best friends to the dignity and magnanimity of those states, that they ought to vote against their own republican principles; lest they should be falsely and impudently taxed with conforming to the opinions of other states.
Fourth. If he is not re-elected, it will betray what every man, who considers the federal constitution as a promising essay towards a higher government, ought most carefully to smother; namely, that the people are in their hearts attached to free republican government, and cannot be brought, by any art or management whatever, to give a direct or indirect countenance to the slavish principles of monarchy and aristocracy.
These arguments, in favor of Mr. Adams, are deduced from several late strictures in the newspapers, and particularly from a very curious publication signed Marcus . They will doubtless have all the influence they merit, on the suffrages which are to decide the competition for the Vice-Presidency of the United States. MUTIUS.
For the GAZETTE of the UNITED STATES.
NOTA BENE.
A PUBLIC debt corrupts the people, and therefore it should not be suffered in a republic. This has been proved by certain newspaper writers, and is daily proving in conversation. But this corrupting influence began only when the debt began to have credit. Had the new Congress have let the debt alone as the old Congress did, because they had no funds, in a few years it would have let us alone—we should have had no trouble, and be at this moment out of all danger of being spoiled and corrupted by a public debt. The virtue and purity of a government that should thus have purged off this great mass of foul matter, would never hereafter prove the worse for temptation, nor the worse for the wear. The conduct of several of the states had furnished the new Congress an useful lesson—yet the teaching, even of experience, has been lost upon that body. While the states kept this giant vice of a public debt under the conquering foot of the law, the certificates did no more harm than so many chips. Was such a thing as speculation known at that time? Did any man buy certificates ill the debt was put in train of being provided for by Congress? Some persons pretend that Congress is not to be accused of causing speculation, as they say the temptation to buy was greatest when paper was at the cheapest, and in that state the price of paper was the most subject to fluctuation. This, however, cannot be true—for the cry against speculators, it is well known, began with the funding act. No clamor was raised against the states for leaving the debt unprovided for, subject to be purchased up by foreigners—the mystery arising from the nature and number of the certificates, was not remarked, nor the frequent shuffling of the laws making the notes payable for land or taxes. The Secretary perceiving there were 60 or 80 sorts of paper, proposed to have them funded and reduced to three only—the six per cent. three per cent. and deferred stock. Who cannot see in this a scheme to puzzle buyers and sellers?
Then speculators crept out of their holes, because the darkness favored them, and watched for prey. The state laws, it is to be observed, were so few, so plain, and so unchangeable, that the holders of notes, the widows and orphans, like sheep in a fold, were secure from the rapacious wolf. But the funding law has broke down the fence, confusion has entered, the widows and orphans are eat up, the patience of the newspaper patriots is gone, and the republican virtue of our country is going as fast as its lame and decrepit condition will permit.—Hinc illa lacrymae! Let the halcyon days of state power and state simplicity come again, and come quickly, before our money is all gone, and the work of corruption quite accomplished.
PHILADELPHIA, Nov. 28.
On Monday the 19th inst. the following Memorial was read in Congress.
To the President, Senate, and House of Representatives of the United States.
The Address of the People called Quakers.
IT was the exhortation of the Apostle Paul, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving thanks, be made for all men; for kings and for all that are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, in all godliness and honesty, for this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; conformable whereto, our minds have been brought into a religious concern, that the rulers of this land may pursue such measures as may tend to the promotion of the peace and happiness of the people.
We are sensible that the Lord's judgements are in our land, and being deeply affected with the distressed situation of the frontier inhabitants, we desire a solid and careful inquiry may be made into the cause; and are firmly persuaded that if the Counsel and Direction of the Holy Spirit is waited for and followed, the divine blessing will crown the labors of those who uprightly engage in the work of peace.
The disposition which has appeared in the government to promote pacific measures with the Indians, hath we believe been generally acceptable; and as it is consistent with our religious principles, so it has been our uniform care to admonish and caution our members against settling on lands which have not been fairly purchased of the original owners; and as far as our influence extends, we mean to maintain this our ancient testimony inviolate, which from experience has been found effectual to the preservation of peace with the natives, who, with great hospitality, cherished and assisted our forefathers in their early settlement of this country.
We feel cautious not to move out of our proper line, but being interested in the welfare of this country, and convinced of the expediency of further endeavors being used to encourage the Indians to come forward with
a full representation and statement of their grievances, and that every just cause of uneasiness in their minds may be fully investigated and removed: we apprehend it our duty again to address you on this affecting and important occasion; under a belief that nothing short of strict justice will ever be a basis of solid and lasting peace.
We respectfully submit these things to your serious consideration; earnestly desiring that through the influence of divine wisdom on your councils, you may be made instrumental to prevent the further effusion of human blood, and that the inhabitants may long enjoy the blessing of a righteous government.
Signed in and on behalf of a meeting appointed to represent our religious society in Pennsylvania, New-Jersey, Delaware, and part of Maryland and Virginia, held in Philadelphia the 17th day of the 11th month, 1792. [Here follows a respectable list of names.]
Foreign Affairs.
LONDON, September 16—23. A gentleman who left Paris on Wednesday week, assures us that the terrible account detailed in the London papers of the dreadful cruelties transacted in that unfortunate capital, so far from being exaggerated, come very short of the truth. That 6000 people were absolutely murdered by one pretended jury of twelve, sitting in one of the prisons. That three large waggons were employed without intermission for six and thirty hours, in carrying the dead bodies out of Paris, and throwing them promiscuously into a pit dug for the purpose. The French caused by the putrefaction of the heads and limbs scattered through the streets, was become intolerable; and plague, pestilence, and famine seemed stalking on with tremendous strides to put an end to those persons whom fire and sword have hitherto spared.
In Paris, the women as usual, are among the most ardent in the display of patriotic actions. From five hundred to a thousand work during the whole day, in public places, pro-
army. This service is entirely voluntary, and they pursue it with ardor, which even the frequent applause of the populace do not divert. The wives of many respectable persons are thus employed. During the massacre on Monday se'nnight in Paris, an old man was brought into the hall, where a sort of tribunal was held in one of the prisons, accompanied by a young lady who had not quit him for eight days. The man, who officiated as judge, upon seeing him, said to the people, "Innocent or guilty, it will be unworthy of us to fully our hands with the blood of this old man." A cry of "Grace, Grace," immediately arose: his young attendant fell upon his bosom, and they were carried home in the arms of the populace.
At present it is a very dubious point, whether all the blood that has been shed by many succeeding generations to unsettle the mind, has not been spilt in vain; and the success of a criminal project, whose extent infinitely surpasses what most people imagine, will not plunge the next century into the stupid superstition and odious tyranny of the feudal ages.
The Austrians, since their possession of the camp at Maulde, commit the utmost ravages in the neighborhood of Orchies and St. Amand. On the other hand, the Postmaster of St. Amand, having been discovered in a treacherous correspondence with them, has been cut to pieces, and his head was carried round the town.
Extra! of a letter from Lewes. September 17.
Upwards of 500 unfortunate emigrants were last week landed on our coast, who have had the fury of the elements to contend with, after escaping that of their countrymen. The Brighton packets, heavily laden with them, were driven by the winds far eastward of their usual track, and with difficulty made Hastings, Prevensey, and Eastbourne. At the former place on Wednesday morning 76, all Ecclesiastics, came on shore, among whom were, the bishop of Avranches, the dean of Rouen, and several other dignitaries. The bishop, with great difficulty, escaped from Avranches by the assistance of one of his grand vicars, who, with one of his domestics, accompanied him to Rouen, where they were for some days concealed. The populace however having discovered them, they were again obliged to fly. They travelled on foot in disguise to Dieppe, at which place they arrived in the night, and took refuge a few hours in an hotel. From thence, at the time appointed for the departure of the packet, they ran to the sea side, and as it was, providentially for them, high water, they were enabled to put off, and instantly got out of the reach of the rabble, who in one minute afterwards pursued them to the shore. The bishop and his grand vicar were hospitably received at Hastings by the Rev. Mr. Whitear, who entertained them till Saturday, when they left that place for London."

CONGRESS.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
TUESDAY, November 20.
Debate on the Resolution offered by Mr. Fitzsimons, on the 19th, respecting a Reduction of the Public Debt &c. resumed.
In Committee of the Whole.
MR. LAWRENCE IN THE CHAIR.
Mr. Baldwin said, when this motion was laid on the table, he did not feel much opposition to it in his own mind, particularly after the explanation given by the mover, that it was designed merely to obtain information from the Secretary of the treasury, whether the revenues of the year would be sufficient to redeem that part of the public debt, which was by law redeemable. On attending more particularly to the expressions, and from the turn which the subject had taken in the discussion, he was convinced that it was best to strike out the latter part of the motion, which in general terms directed the "Secretary to report a plan for the purpose." The expressions were too indistinct and indefinite, and on former occasions had been used to cover much more than was generally understood at the time the reference was made. If it is only designed on this occasion to obtain information as to facts in that department, let the present general words be struck out, and let the Secretary be directed to report, whether the revenues of the year are sufficient to redeem that part of the debt. If it is designed that the Secretary should report a new revenue system, as he has repeatedly done, let that be expressed, that the house at least may understand themselves. If information on facts or details in the executive department is the object, no one objects to it. If legislative opinions, the origination of a law or revenue system is intended, let it be so expressed. He observed, there was a kind of political stratagem and finess sometimes used on such occasions, which experience had always proved, tended to no good. Individuals, when they intend to occupy doubtful ground, in which they are sure they should not be supported by the majority, interpose upon it by degrees; at one time a motion is made on one side of it, and the success of it depends on their proving, that it is not on the doubtful ground—at another time they approach it in the same manner on a different side—and at another, on a different, till finally the whole is surrounded; in the end, these very insidious constructions are as much on that extreme, as they had before done on the other, it is proved that the whole ground is already occupied. In this way the most absurd and mischievous political doctrines have been established. He was not without his apprehensions that, by a few efforts more it would be found, that some of the most important parts of legislation were transferred from the present legislatures to single law-givers. It had been the constant object and ambition of individual men in all parts and ages of the world; there is no doubt but it will be as unrelentingly pursued here, unless controuled by those who feel themselves injured by it. It might be taken for granted, that there now were, and always would be, individuals who had no point in this progress at which the "would stop"; that they would crowd towards that extreme as far as possible.
He needed no assurance that their number in that house, or in the country, was very small; but they might make much trouble. He conceived it would be of much use on so great and practical points in government, for the majority whose minds, if thoroughly known to each other, were probably not much apart, to take an early occasion to express their definite opinion: that the necessary facts and details of office should be reported from the departments; but that legislative opinions, and the structure of laws, should be sacred to the two branches of the legislature.
If one executive officer is ordered to form the laws which relate to his department, the officers in the other departments must do the same in theirs. Laws which relate to war, to the militia, &c. must be formed by the secretary at war; those which relate to the post-office, post-roads, and the communications between different parts of the country, must be formed by the postmaster-general; those which relate to the other subjects, whether foreign or domestic, must be formed by the secretary of state. There is no part of the federal ground, but what is and must be covered by one or other of the executive departments; if they are to be called on to originate and form the laws which relate to their several departments, the two branches of the legislature will remain a mere council of revision, to approve or reject, or propose amendments. If the majority do not mean to keep on in their progress to this extreme, it is time that it should be understood; he himself was anxious to understand how far they meant to go, and what share of legislation was to be claimed as their own. He was strongly persuaded that it must eventually come to this, that under the idea of obtaining light and information from the executive departments, laws were not to be made there, or new legislative systems originated; but only information of facts and details of office. The two branches of the legislature receive laws already formed from each other; and in each executive
officer to be considered in the same relation to the legislature, that the two branches are to each other? If they are not, he begged to know the distinction. A revenue law could not originate in the senate; and yet had not an executive officer repeatedly done that in a legislative relation to the house, which even the senate would not presume to do?
He proceeded to observe, in the next place, that this was such a confusion of all principle in government, that he was anxious to arrest its progress before it had produced any greater mischief. Though he had never much venerated the character of a mere theorist in government, yet, if there was a single principle important enough in the whole theory, which might be considered as an axiom applicable to all circumstances, it was that of the distribution of the powers, that the legislative, executive and judiciary should be kept as far as possible separate and distinct. The reason is most obvious, to prevent the concert of improper passions in forming and executing the laws. If they who make the laws, could also have the agency in the execution of them, no doubt, huge systems would be constructed and mightily enlarged, that their love of power, and grandeur, and property might have full scope, while they were carrying them into effect. If they who are to have the agency in the execution of the laws, are admitted also to an agency in the formation of them, they will do the same thing; all the agency which they have, will be directed to those objects. Not to expect it, not to be sure of its taking place, is to be a stranger to human nature. He observed, that this part of the argument was in its nature, and had been set in so strong a light by those who had gone before him, he should not enlarge upon it.
Mr. Baldwin derived his argument in the last place from what had already appeared in practice. Though the age of the government, he said, did not yet admit of its being rich in this most valuable of all knowledge; yet, experience and practice had already strongly fortified the principles which he had advanced. He then adverted to several instances to shew, that where the laws had received their shape and form in the branches of the legislature, they appeared on trial to be in general well accommodated to the circumstances of the different parts of the country: but where they had received their shape and form out of the legislature, from the hands of an individual, they never after could be well adjusted to the circumstances of different parts of the country; any alterations that had been attempted were but ill-applied patch-work. Trial had proved that they were not well shaped for they had set very ill on the feelings of the people.
He particularly dwelt on the impost law as an instance of what he intended; that, he said, was formed entirely in the house in the usual modes of legislation, each member had an opportunity of considering it in every stage of its progress, and applying his information in its proper place as the system was forming; a hundred minds were employed, from day to day, in all directions, to foresee and provide against the evils which it would have to encounter in practice. In this way it was made to be as easy as possible to every part of the country, and yet efficient. Very trifling alterations had been found necessary, except great increases of the sums demanded. A vast burden has been laid on the people, and yet it sits so easy that there has never been much complaint from any quarter.
He wished the same could be said with equal truth of the other part of the revenue system, and should never cease to regret that that system had not been originally taken up in the same manner. If, said he, that ill-omened petition of some of the public creditors, taken up just at the heel of the first session in 1789, instead of being referred to an executive officer in general terms to report a plan, in which he testified for himself, and, he believed, many others would do the same;—he had no idea of the extent to which it has gone; the subject had been gone into by the house—the system had been formed, and the legislative provisions originated by those to whom only it belonged; he believed the finances of this country would not, at this time have been so intricate a science—the public credit would have been as well supported, the debt would have been in a more simple form; so false an address to the interests of individuals, and of particular states would not have been contrived;—the states would probably have been allowed, as they had been always before taught to expect, to finish the execution of their systems for the payment of their own debts, and our fellow-citizens not now have been hunted by the harsh and troublesome regulations of an excise system to pay them. If all this had still been found necessary, and had originated in public in the legislature, it would have been accompanied, in every stage of its progress by the information of the citizens, and opportunity would not have been given for that legerdemain by which so many of the honest and industrious who chance not to live within the smoke of the seat of government, to be conjured out of so great a part of their hard earned property.
But, it is said, and with an apparent gravity, that each member has as fair a chance of introducing what he wishes after the system is reported to the house, as if he was present at the formation of it. What say experience on that point?—Have not the same persons who have advocated those references invariably discovered equal unwillingness to have the systems jostled or disturbed after they are made? He needed only to mention the funding scheme, the excise, and the bank laws as instances of his assertion. Were there not that pride of opinion, that parental feeling, which persons who may have been admitted to an agency in them, feel for their own works; it was in its nature difficult to introduce any important alteration in a system which had been completed and proportioned in its parts,
it was like taking a limb from a body and attempting to add another—the difficulty of the operation commonly precludes all attention to the subject matter.
If the representatives of the people in all the different parts of the country are to have equal share in the formation of laws, they must be present where they are formed, assist in furnishing the informed materials, endeavour to shape them to their wishes and the circumstances of their constituents before the parts become so knit together and compacted as to refuse to take a different shape. This right was so important to every part of the country he could not give it up. His constituents were very remote—their interests and wishes were therefore more out of view, and never would be attended to but only as they were brought up by their representatives; they were therefore the more dear to him; he felt it more strongly his duty to seek opportunity to act for them; he could not be denied;—a share in legislation was what they had a right to, in their name he demanded it, and should not give it up. He could not see legislative systems formed of such vast importance to their interest and happiness, without doing all in his power to appear and act in their behalf. He should feel himself to be their betrayer instead of their friend and representative, if he could consent to it. If the laws were not to be formed here where he had his constitutional seat, and expected to discharge all the duties of his high trust, he should try to find where they were formed, and if possible, obtain access there, that he might have some chance even as a courtier to crowd forward some opinions while there was a possibility of their doing good, which was denied to him as a representative.
Mr. White observed, that the object of the gentleman from Georgia appears to be a very good one; but he saw no other way of effecting it but by a revision of the law establishing the treasury department: there are such extensive powers given to the head of that department, by that law, that, without any forced construction, the substance of the proposition, now contended for, may be supported by that law:—he hoped, however, that the main object of the resolution, making provision for the reduction of the public debt, would not meet with any embarrassment. He suggested a modification of the clause respecting the secretary's reporting a plan, by adding a restricting clause, that the plan reported should have respect only to the existing funds of the government, without any reference to additional taxes for the object; to check, therefore, that torrent of abuse, which, in writings and speeches, were thrown out against the government on this very subject:—he hoped there would be no delay in this business; but that the present Congress would, in season, pass a law, making effectual provision for diminishing the public debt: such a law, once passed, he was fully of opinion would be so consonant to the wishes of the people, that no future legislature would ever do any thing to check the progress of this salutary work.
Mr. Giles entered into a consideration of the new constituting the treasury department. He controverted the opinion advanced by Mr. White, and insisted, in substance, that the power of the secretary of the treasury was merely concurrent, in respect to reporting plans, with that of the house.
Mr. White rose to explain; he said he never had any idea that the house had divested itself of the right of originating plans: he never conceived that the secretary of the treasury had a right to propose any plans or systems to the legislature, unless he was called upon to do it.
Mr. Murray, in a few remarks, delivered similar sentiments.
Mr. Gerry recurred to the law: he said it was evidently made the duty of the secretary of the treasury to prepare plans for the promoting of the revenue; and that when the house called on him for his plans, or information, if he was not then prepared, it would be indicative of want of capacity, or remissness in duty: but, he observed, it by no means followed from this, that the construction of the law, given by the gentleman from Virginia, is just: the house has not delegated one particle of its legislative power; it reserves to itself, the full right to call for plans and information; or to refrain from calling for either, and when the information is received, it is entirely at the disposal of the house.
Mr. Mercer and Mr. Page added some remarks in opposition to the reference, and then the question for striking out being taken, passed in the negative.
THURSDAY, November 22.
In committee of the whole on the bill providing for the registering and recording of ships or vessels. Mr. Lawrence in the chair. The bill was considered by paragraphs.
Mr. Page opposed the clause which referred to "ships or vessels captured in war"—He moved that it should be struck out, as countenancing a savage practice, now exploded and laid aside by civilized nations—that it would be time enough when the United States shall be so unfortunate as to be involved in a war, to make provision for the case now alluded to, that no inconvenience could arise from adopting the motion; that indeed it highly became the legislature of the United States to adopt it, as they would thereby shew their approbation of the liberal and benevolent sentiments now adopted by the greatest and most enlightened nations of Europe, abolishing the inhuman practice. That he supposed the clause had been inserted in the bill, because it was drawn before this circumstance of the benevolent disposition of the nations of Europe was generally known—he hoped therefore that his motion would be agreed to. It was however some time before it was seconded, at length
Mr. Tucker seconded the motion, and supported it by arguments similar to Mr. Page's; remarking, that the French nation, though
now engaged in an extensive war, did not permit the capture of merchant vessels—prohibiting that practice as inhuman and unbecoming a civilized nation.
Mr. Goodhue in reply said, that the motion seemed to look to a state of perpetual peace—but for his part, as he did not think the millennium was begun, he should vote against the motion.
Mr. Page replied, that he did not expect the millennium in his day any more than the gentleman did who had endeavored to ridicule his motion. That he was not a little surprised to find that a motion which had a tendency to be benevolent, and was in itself so rational, expressed too with modesty and deference to the frame of the bill, should meet with such reception. He then repeated the substance of what he had before said, as he supposed he had not been heard, and insisted on it that the clause he moved to be struck out was not only unnecessary in the bill, but was an improper adoption of a practice now condemned as a vage by the enlightened nations of the world.
Mr. Sedgwick remarked in opposition to the motion, that the clause ought not to be struck out, because it was not confined to merchant vessels which might be captured, but extended to ships of war, which, if taken by the United States in any future war, ought certainly to come within the view and benefit of the act.
The question was then put, and carried in the negative without a division.
When the bill was reported, Mr. Page renewed his motion for striking out the clause &c. repeating nearly his former arguments, adding that as to the objection made to his motion on account of its interfering with the case of ships of war which may be captured: He said he felt for the United States when such a case was mentioned; he felt himself depressed and dispirited at the idea of his country being so perplexed by the expenses of a trifling war with the Indians, and yet looking forward to the capture of ships of war. That surely if that be the object of the clause, as it looks to a case which cannot happen till a future, distant day, it will be time enough for some future legislature to consider it—that for his part, he hoped never to see the United States possessed of a navy: at all events, till they had one, it would be unnecessary to make regulations respecting their prizes. He assured the House he would not have renewed his motion, if he did not think it his duty to persist in his attempt to shew the propriety of uniting in sentiments and endeavors with the great enlightened nations of the world, to put a stop to a savage practice which had been too often a great inducement to enter into wars. He wished to take away every possible temptation to enter into a war, and whenever his country should be so unhappy as to be involved in one, he wished, by the amendment proposed, to lessen the number of unavoidable evils attending wars.
Substance of the Observations of Mr. Findley, in the House of Representatives of the United States, on Wednesday last, on the motion of Mr. Parker for striking out such part of the third Resolution reported by the Committee of the whole on the President's Speech, as respects a reference to the Secretary of the Treasury, on the Reduction of the Public Debt.
Mr. Speaker,
I AM one of those members described by the gentleman from New-York, who seriously wish to pay the public debt as fast as possible, and receive the necessary information even from the secretary of the treasury; but I make a material distinction between seeking for information, and transferring the power of originating systems.
To give information of the state of the Union, to recommend such business as the President may judge expedient; and to exercise a limited negative on the laws, is certainly all the part which the constitution authorises the executive to act in legislation.
The existence of heads of departments, is authorised in the constitution, and hath been erected by the act of the legislature; these departments are the instruments of collecting information, and repositories of it, as it respects the execution and effect of the laws; and this information we have a right to command. This, with the more general and important information which the members of this House possess, are all that is necessary to enable us to give the first form and complexion to our revenue plans. To prevent the necessity of referring the business to an executive officer, we will avail ourselves of the information deposited in the Secretaries offices.
This we have unanimously asserted, and yet the gentlemen on the other side of this question, constantly argue in favor of receiving information, as if we were against it.—We wish for it as much, and for more important purposes than they.
The gentleman alleges that the right of the Secretary's originating plans is implicated in the constitution, and calls upon us to prove the contrary; no such thing is mentioned in the constitution. It is confessed that it does not appear on the

MONDAY, November 26.
Mr. Wadsworth, member from Connecticut, took his seat this day.
A memorial of John Manly, was read and referred to the Secretary of War.
The petition of William Story, and the petition of George Williams, and others, were read and referred to the Secretary of the Treasury.
The petition of sundry persons, masters and owners of vessels employed in the coasting trade, stating complaints of the duties and office fees they are subject to, as being extra-vagant, and praying relief: read and referred to the committee on the bill to regulate the coasting trade.
A bill to reimburse certain extra expenses of the commissioners for treating of peace with the Creek Indians, was read the second time, and referred to a committee of the whole to-morrow.
The bill providing for the registering and recording of ships or vessels, was brought in, engrossed, read the third time, the blanks filled up, and passed.
In committee of the whole, on the bill for regulating foreign coins, and for other purposes.—Mr. Sedgwick in the chair.
The committee agreed to sundry proposed amendments, which were reported to the house by the chairman. The house took the same into consideration, and adopted them all. An amendment was moved in the house by Mr. Madison, and agreed to: the bill was then ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
Mr. Ames presented a representation signed Warner Mifflin, on the subject of the negro slavery; which was read and laid on the table.
Mr. Murray laid on the table the following motion: That the clerk of the house be directed to purchase for the use of the house, maps of the separate States, and of the United States.
On motion of Mr. Fitzsimons, a resolution was passed, that the commissioners for settling the accounts between the United States and individual States, be directed to inform the house, at what time they shall be ready to make report; and what obstacles, if any, exist to obstruct their progress in the business.
Adjourned.
TUESDAY, Nov. 27.
Mr. W. Smith, of the committee appointed for the purpose, reported
A bill to ascertain the fees demandable in the admiralty courts of the United States, and to amend in part, the act for the government of seamen in the merchants' service—which was twice read, and referred to a committee of the whole house on Monday next. Interim, to be printed.
Mr. Goodhue, of the committee appointed for the purpose, reported
A bill for licencing and enrolling ships or vessels to be employed in the coasting trade and fisheries, and for regulating the same—which was read twice and committed for Tuesday next—100 copies to be printed.
The clerk began the third reading of the bill for regulating foreign coins, and for other purposes—but, at the request of Mr. Page, the reading was suspended, and the bill laid on the table till to-morrow, for further consideration.
A report of the Secretary of State on the petition of John De Neufville, was read—which, after recapitulating and examining the several items referred to in the petition, concludes with this opinion—That no part of it ought to be granted.
A communication from the Governor of the territory N. W. of the Ohio, enclosing a petition of the inhabitants of Post Vincennes on the Wabash, praying to be exempted from the charges of survey, was read, and referred to Messrs. Livermore, Muhlenberg and Leonard.
The petition of Duncan Campbell, praying for reasons set forth, to be placed on the pension list—was read, and referred to the committee already appointed on similar applications.
Mr. Murray called up his motion empowering the clerk to purchase maps for the use of the house—which being taken into consideration, was agreed to.
In committee of the whole on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, respecting lost or destroyed certificates.—Mr. Sedgwick in the chair.
Mr. Lee, after some preliminary remarks on the subject, proposed and moved sundry resolutions, which he read, and submitted to the committee, as a basis for further proceedings in the business.—
The motion being seconded, the resolutions were taken into consideration—after some debate, the question being taken on the first resolution, it was disagreed to.
A motion was then made that the committee rise; the committee accordingly rose and the chairman reported that they had come to no resolution on the subject of the report: A motion was then made that the committee should be discharged from any further consideration of the business; this motion was negatived—and the committee had leave to sit again.
Mr. Giles moved that a committee be appointed to bring in a bill granting further compensation to certain receivers of continental taxes; laid on the table.
Mr. Muhlenberg called up the report of a select committee on the petition of Moses Young. The report being read, was made the order of the day for Monday week.
Mr. W. Smith called up the report on the petition of Charles and Lewis Garanjai, which was read, and made the order of the House on Tuesday next.
On motion of Mr. Goodhue, the report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the petition of the executors of Edward Carnes, deceased, was read, and referred to a committee of the whole House on Friday next.—Adjourned.
power of the representatives to give the first form to revenue plans, if they choose to do it; at least, that it was optional with them previous to the law: if, therefore, they cannot do it themselves without all those mischievous consequences, it is time to change the government itself—it is much better to do so, avowedly and deliberately, than in this insidious and indirect manner. However, I wish we would first try the experiment in a few instances, and if those bad effects are produced, the gentlemen's arguments in favour of their plan will receive experimental aid.
With respect to the confusions of the old government, I am at some loss to know what the gentleman means; it is true, the old Congress was vested with a confusion of powers, viz. legislative, executive, &c. but this is not the case with us; the old Congress had also a confused manner of doing business; they seldom had a full house: this circumstance laid them under the necessity of referring much of their business to the heads of departments; against doing which, the confederation had provided no such express guard, as our constitution does; I have always apprehended, that, from that confused habit of doing business, the present method of referring legislative affairs to the heads of departments, found its way into this house; and it is against, and not for, that old confusion, that I contend.
With respect to the advantages arising from the Secretary of the Treasury giving the first principles, and original complexion to our revenue systems, they are stated to be great and numerous; but they are well summed up, by the gentleman from New-York (Mr. Lawrance) who says, that to this method of doing business, we are indebted for the retrieved state of our national affairs, for all our wealth and prosperity. Surely if this proves any thing, it proves too much; if the Secretary's influence and abilities can do so much good, it is a proof, that if he is either mistaken, or wants virtue, he may by the exercise of this power, do much harm. According to this way of reasoning Congress must be responsible for all that is wrong, and the Secretary have the credit of all that is done well; will any person who supports this assertion, pretend to say, that if entrusting the secretary with originating the principles of money bills, produces such important effects that it does not vest him with the means of an undue and dangerous influence.
But does the gentlemen believe that the present government, vested with such extensive and effective powers, and possessed of such ample means, would have left those powers unexercised, and those means unapplied; that Congress would have paid no respect to the contracts, and made no provision for the debts of the United States, if the Secretary had not originated the plans? surely this is not a supposable case; nor is it very consistent with another observation made by the gentleman, when he told us, that the Secretary's preparing a plan was attended with no more influence than would be produced by the clerk of this House inserting a clause in a bill—both instances being equally subject to our control. I would not consent, nor do we permit our clerk to originate systems; but if we cannot do it ourselves, it would be much more consistent and safe, to trust it with our clerk, who is wholly dependant on the House, and may be dismissed by it at pleasure, and has no patronage connected with his office, than to entrust that power with an executive officer, chosen by the President, and dependant on him for his continuance in office, and having an creating patronage connected with his office. Certainly, sir, if an officer must be paid to originate our revenue systems, we ought to provide that he should be appointed by and dependant upon the House of Representatives.
When we reflect upon the subject, and look round us, we will find no example in the state governments to countenance our conduct, and these were the models after which the government of the Union was formed; nor is it pretended that the Constitution under which we act, and have sworn to support, expressly gives any such power, and I am persuaded that the general Convention which originated the government of the Union, nor the State Conventions who adopted it, contemplated no such implication, as is now contended for in support of our practice.
(Debate to be continued.)
not impression, therefore the burden of the proof falls on the gentleman himself.
The nature of the government, as it prohibits the other branch from intermeddling in the first formation of money bills, and expressly describes how far the executive power may interfere with the legislative, is sufficiently expressive of the design of the constitution. Legislative authority is in its own nature incommunicable, and cannot be transferred; a member of the legislature cannot appoint a deputy to serve in his place; if any power is exclusively vested, it is that of giving the first complexion to revenue systems; this is the special trust of that branch which possesses within itself the greatest knowledge of the people's circumstances, and participation of their interests; and this influential power is thus guarded for obvious reasons. But the constitutional principles involved in this question have been explained with so much ability by several other gentlemen who have been up before me, that it is not necessary to detain the House longer on that head.
However, another argument which has been frequently repeated, and particularly urged by the gentleman last up (Mr. Gerry) requires some further animadversions. It is, that by the law which defines the power of the Secretary, we are bound to refer the revenue business to that officer, and to receive the original plans from him; that if we do not act according to this law, we will set a dangerous example of disobedience to the citizens.
Mr. Speaker, I ask, had the House of Representatives a right to originate in the first instance revenue systems, before this law was made? This I presume will not be denied; if that House had the power, are not the powers of this House equally extensive? Can one House of Representatives abridge or alienate the powers of another? If this can be done, we may give away the constitutional powers of future Houses to any extent. In short sir, I have as much power now in this House, as any member ever had in any former House, my conduct as a member is only restricted by the constitution, and by the temporary rules of the House, which we may change at pleasure by a vote. I have a right now to move on this floor, an original plan, for the very purpose in question, or for any other revenue purpose: this is a power vested with every member, consequently with the whole House, and they cannot transfer it to a secretary, to the senate or to any officer, or public body on earth.
The law in question gives a capacity to the secretary to prepare plans when we direct him to do so; it makes it his duty (how far that law is proper, is another question). But the law does not, nor cannot, oblige us to call upon him to do that duty, or restrain us from doing it ourselves.
Gentlemen talk much of our power to alter or reject his systems; but this is not to the purpose; it has been already observed, that we might alter or reject a plan proposed to us by the Senate, or by the President; but it is our peculiar duty to generate or give the original complexion to the systems, and this is, by universal consent, esteemed the most important and influential part of the business.
Our own discernment and virtue, is by some gentlemen urged as a sufficient security against any influence or danger, that can possibly arise from transferring this part of our duty to an executive officer; I confess I have no doubt of our virtue, and entertain a pretty good opinion of our discernment; it is an agreeable thing enough to have a good opinion of ourselves. However, I apprehend, the most venal public body that ever existed, would have boasted of their own integrity, as well as we; but it is enough for us that the constitution has provided other securities than our wisdom and virtue; our self-confidence never ought to induce us to break, or despise the constitutional guards.
But, passing other things, I shall make a few observations upon the advantages and disadvantages arising from both sides of the question. Some of the disadvantages mentioned are, that by originating the revenue systems in the house our measures will be fluctuating, public credit will be impaired, or lost, and a stop put to the national prosperity; and, as the gentleman last up, Mr. Gerry, has repeatedly said, the confusions of the old government will be introduced. It is admitted, that the constitution puts it in the
Philadelphia, Nov. 28.
Electors of President and Vice-President of the United States, for Massachusetts:— Hon. Azor Orne, Francis Dana, Increase Sumner, Thomas Dawes, Samuel Holton, Moses Gill, William Shepard, Dwight Foster, Thompson J. Skinner, Ebenezer Mattoon, jun. Walter Spooner, Solomon Freeman, William Seaver, Daniel Coney, Peleg Wadsworth, Nathaniel Wells, Esquires.
Representatives in Congress for the State of Massachusetts.
Suffolk, Fisher Ames, Esq. Essex, Benjamin Goodhue, Esq. Middlesex, Samuel D. Dyer, jun. Esq. Worcester, Artemus Ward, Esq. Berkshire, Theodore Sedgwick, Esq. Bristol, Peleg Cossin, Esq. At large, Hon. David Cobb, Esq. Boston Gazette.
A ship has lately arrived at Wiscasset, in 29 days from England. She brings an account that the Duke of Brunswick had advanced so far towards Paris, as that he had suffered the armies of France to surround him; and it was expected that he would never be able to return—without their leave!! Portland, Nov. 15.
SAYS A CORRESPONDENT.
That parties exist in all governments is incontrovertible; pray what brought about a second Revolution in the United States, but party? By party I mean the certificate holders, vulgarly called public creditors. This body of men made the continent ring with accounts of the degraded state of our public affairs; that our union was a "rope of sand," that our commerce was annihilated, and that the States were devouring each other; these were the notes, but the ground work of the music was self-interest, or if you please avarice; and it may perhaps be falsely affirmed that it had not been for the paper demands against the United States, that boasted fabric the New Constitution, would never have met the support that it did. Now that we have got this constitution, those who were so zealous in advocating it, discover that it has its defects; and like the old consideration, they fear it will also prove a rope of sand. It remains to be seen by experience how far it is possible for a government to be stable, that is the offspring of party.
When Mr. Adams's Defence of the American Constitutions first appeared—a gentleman observed that it would be a very popular work too years hence; that it contained too many solemn, stubborn truths to meet general approbation at the present day; that time alone could unfold and enforce their propriety, justice and applicability to the constitution of man. Mr. Adams has however lived to see the truth of one important observation verified with respect to himself, at a much earlier period than could have been reasonably expected from the strong opinion entertained by that gentleman, and other distinguished advocates for the high republican character of the people of this country. The gorgon head of party shews itself in its proper form in the United States, and there is the greatest apprehensions entertained by many of the best friends to the liberties of America, that merit, abilities, and services, in the person of as great a patriot as this or any other country ever produced, will be sacrificed at its shrine.
The re election of Mr. Adams to the office of Vice-President, is perhaps as important to the interests, peace and freedom of the United States, at this period, as any event of a similar nature ever can be to this country—especially when it is considered, that not one enemy to the Union, or the Constitution is to be found among his friends—and that the most active of his enemies are known to possess sentiments hostile to both.
The mode of attacking the Vice-President of the United States, in publishing mutilated extracts from his writings, is similar to that of the Atheist, who asserted that he could prove by the bible "There is no God."
A list of the Fortunate Numbers in the New-Brunswick Lottery, will be published with our next.
PHILANTHROPUS came too late for this day's paper.
SHIP NEWS.
ARRIVED at the PORT OF PHILADELPHIA. Ship Edward, Orne, Newbury-Port. Brig Perseverance, Brown, N. Brunswick. Schr. Seaflower, Austin, ditto. Sally, Hickman, Virginia. Dolphin, Watson, N. York. Sloop Betsey, Dunn, ditto. Polly, Bozman, N. Carolina.
PRICE OF STOCKS.
6 per Cents, 21/3. 3 per Cents, 12/6. Deferred, 13/3. Full shares Bank U. S. 45 per cent. prem. 3/4 shares, 56. Unfunded debt of U. S. 21/6 on the principal. And on the Interest up to 1st Jan. 1788, 13/6.
THE EDITOR—TO HIS SUBSCRIBERS.
THE Arrearages of Subscriptions for this Gazette have been for a long time accumulating. The expenses of the publication are great and inevitable, and have annually amounted to much more than the receipts for subscriptions; the consequences must be obvious. The editor has no other resource than those arrearages, to discharge the debts he has been obliged to incur in prosecuting the publication.
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