The Pennsylvania gazette — Philadelphia, Pa., 1776-10-16 00:00:00, page 2

An "authentic account of 'he bEBATk in the ttousE of
Commons, on Genera! Conway's Motion, the aid of
Ma,. [FroK the St. James's Chronicie.]
G 1 ENERAL CONWA Y firft shortly explained the
r leading objects of his intended motion. He observ
ed that administration had, to the scandal of all good go
vernment, lupprclled every thing relative to the true
Rate of affairs in America. 'That the complaints of our
colonies weft interrupted in their passage to the throne
and parliament, as long as the King's Miilifters found
their accountin so doing. When a war was determined
on, the conduct of administration changed with their
Views; they firft provoked the people to refill govern
ment, and only produced to parliament such part of the
Rate of affairs in that country as promised to inflame and
irritate Great Britain. That as soon as Great Britain
had determined to assert her rights, administration again
resumed their wonted taciturnity, and from the very
imtant that America was declared in a state of rebellion,
the present Parliament had been kept in the most pro
found ignorance of every thing palling on the other fide
of the Atlantic. He then moved, “ That an humble
address be prefeuted to his Majesty, praying that his Ma
jelty would be graciously pleafcd to communicate to this
House so much of the inftrudions given to Lord Vis
count Howe and General Howe, his Majesty's Commif-
Roners, as relates to the conditions or terms propoled
for making peace with, or receiving the fubmiilions of,
his Majesty's American fubjeds, now in America."
After the motion, as near as we can recoiled, he spoke
for above an hour and an half. He said he would have
made it sooner, but did not think when he determined
to make his motion, that any fpecific time was fixed for
the riling of the Parliament. That he waited impatient
ly to fee if the Gazette would not give some informa
tion to the people at least, since Parliament were to be
led blindfolded, or kept in the dark. He lamented, in
the most pathetic terms, the manner Parliament had
been milled, and worked up by the arts of designing in
terested men, to set their faces against all conceptions;
from America; however reasonable and lincere, unless
the people of that country contented to lay down their
arms like cowards Haves, and paltroons. He contend
ed, in a flrain that would have done honour to the most
Ready patriots of Greece and Rome, that the honour of
the British nation was betrayed, the dignity of Parlia
ment facrificed, and its dearest interests given up, to
keep a sett of men in power, the most unpopular, and
the most unfit to direct the affairs of this country of any
thatthe uuiah of Britain had known since the Revolu
tion. H>wis it possible (fays he) you can treat with this
people, unless you know their terms? How is it possible,
though you did know their terms, that you can have
any expectation of peace, unless you know, at the fame
time; the conditions which Administration mean to hold
out? What can America think of the British Parliament,
or the British councils? This day no revenue, no tax is
expected; to-morrow both are inlifted on in the most pe
remptory terms. This day treaty, the next war, the
third a strange heterogeneous mixture of war and conces
sion; and at length all ends in darkness and emfufion.
Your words and actions, your statutes and resolutions,
are eternally at variance; you differ from your own refo-
Ititions before you leave the House, and from each other
before you m*et again; so that the nation, and every in
dividual in it, is kept in a state of fufpence and uncertain
ty. He next alluded to the letters said by Wliitlocke to
have been written by Charles First, and the closeting some
of the Commissioners sent to him by Parliament; and
feared that in the farther prosecution of this business,
Parliament was meant to be employed as a mere engine
of government; in which, let the matter end as it might,
either in war of conciliation, it was previoudy determin
ed that Parliament should be disgraced. He could not
help remarking, wth some degree of indignation, on the
language of Mini Hers ; REBELS ! and REBELLION.
The affair of 1715 was REBELLION; that in 1745 was
a REBELLION of the foulett and rankest kind ; perhaps,
if some men's minds were searched, it would be found
that neither of those flagitious attacks on the constitution
and liberties of this country were deemed so. Whether
or not, he was fully convinced that the present resistance
of America was NOT REBELLION. The former en
deavoured to bring in a Pretender, known at once to be
inimical to the civil and religious liberties of this country,
the latter were only fighting like freemen for their lawful
liberty and property, and every thing they held dear and
sacred as men, citizens, or Englishmen.
He then proceeded to arraign the conduct of Admini
stration in the most pointed and severe terms, relative to
the prosecution of the war. He said, all Canada had been
loft by their neglect, Quebec excepted, and that too pro
bably would fall before any fuccours could arrive; that
Bolton was a pod injudiciously taken, or fhamefully
abandoned; that the foolilh ichemes and wild expedi
tions to the feuthward succeeded no better; that if Bos
ton was worth keeping, Administration were to the last
degree censurable to let it be loft in the fhameful manner
it was, when it was in their power so cafy to have re
lieved it; and that, in short, Providence had counter
afted every icheme devised for the deftrudtion of Ame
rica, and the annihilation of British liberty. But though,
fays he, you have hitherto mifearried, I fear one part of
your plan will prove fuccefsful; the follies and corrup
tions of the people have rendered them fit for any thing
you may think proper to infill on them. I trait, how
ever, the day is not far off, when the names of the prime
actors and promoters of this infamous business will be
wiped away from the recollection of every honest man,
but for the mere purpose of holding them in the utmost
execration and contempt. But if you have no traces of
jultice left in your minds, if you feel not for your own
honour, for God's fake pay some little attention to your
own individual interests, and the fafety of the nation.
Do you think, however credulous you may be, that
France and Spain will lie by iilent and inactive, with their
hands across ? Is it French policy to do so ? Or will the
vindicative spirit of the Spaniard permit him to sleep,
when so favourable an opportunity presents itfelf of
avenging his real or ideal wrongs? I have good reason
to be persuaded of the contrary. Spain is daily arming.
France has a new Minister, who is fond of war, who is
a man of enterprise and ability, and is well known not to
be well disposed towards this country; and if any re
liance ought at any time to be had on assurances given
by Ministers, it must now vanish, as it is known to be a
fettled maxim in French politics, that promises given by
a Minister are no longer looked upon to be binding,
either on hie matter or the nation, than he continues in
office. Whew the Minister fs changed, almost uniformly
the system is changed; for it is always a change of mea
sures, not of men, which brings about such arrange
ments in the French court.
LORD JOHN CAVENDISH seconded the motion.
He said the nation had been led into a war with America
imperceptibly, and, from a question of right, they had
artfully worked it up into a trial of power; but as the
nation had been wrought upon by the arts of delation and
misrepresentation, he trusted the people would at length
be restored to their senses, and bring the authors to con
dign punilliment. lie reminded the House of the part
he took immediately before the Chriftmafs recess, 1774,
when he informed Administration, that if America was
to be coerced, it would never be by a peace military efta
blilhment, and a reduced peace naval eftablilhment, from
twenty to sixteen thousand men; and when the petty
augmentations took place, early in the ensuing spring,
he again told them, that the force they were fending out
would answer no other end but to disgrace the British
arms. The event shewed that his predictions were true;
and at the commencement of the present session he was
once more under the neceflity of telling them of their
blunders, and incapacity in conducing the affairs of a
great nation either in war or peace ; yet, even at this last
period, he perceived that Administration were not to be
taught by experience. They regimented an army on pa
per; twenty-five thousand men were to conquer Ame
rica; three months were Hapfed, half the number were
not to be procured, though Great Britain and Ireland
were ransacked and left dcfencelefs; at length foreigners
were applied to; foreigners were procured; more than
one half of them still remained in their country, the
other half were now tofling about in the Bay of Biscay,
and America was loft.
LORD NORTH said he was against the motion, but
not for the reason the Hon. Gentleman, who moved it,
seemed about to apologize. It was, to be sure, partly
Lite in the season, but if the nation could derive the least
benefit from it, he had not the least objection to lit weeks
or months ; but to call for inftruaions given to Commis
sioners was a matter totally new to him, cither as an
official man or a member of that House. His Lordfbip
observed, that in matters of negociatiou it was usual to
give inftrudions, to let the treaty go on, to wait for the
issue of it, and then form a judgment. If the treaty
should miftarry, if no fruits should be produced from it,
then it would be time enough to enquire into the tenor
of the inftrudions, to fee whether they were such as
ought to have been given, and such as from their pro
felled objects were likely to succeed. He said, in some
situations, the business of a General was as much to ne
gotiate as fight. The knowledge of his own strength, as
well as that of the enemy, led him into many important
secrets, which frequently served as a balis of future ac
commodation. As to the original cause of the present
disputes, he was not in office when they arose. He had
his own opinion, and it was always the fame, that you
must couple the claim of this country with a tax framed
in some Ihape or other; but nothing was farther from his
thoughts than to press his opinion on any man. Some
were for taxation, others were for adhering to the su
premacy of this country; some again thought that the
American charters ought to be inviolably preferred,
while others imputed all the present evils to that source;
in all events, among such a variety of difeordant opinions,
he should always abide by the sense of that House ; and
finally, that the real intention of the commission now sent
out, was not so much to agree upon any fpecific terms, as to
found the real difpoftion of America, in order to learn what
the people of that country were ultimately desirous to obtain.
Mr. BURKE was very severe on Administration. He
contended that the House had a right to know what
powers were delegated to the Commissioners, for as it
was a parliamentary affair, Parliament ought to be made
acquainted with every material Hep taken. He said he
wished to know in what manner the Commissioners were
inftrudted to treat with the two persons (Hancock and
Adams) excepted out of Gen. Gage's famous proclama
tion, offering a pardon and indemnity to all America, or
with Gen. Lee; whether unconditional submission, in the
language of a Noble I,ord (Lord George Germaine) over
the way, was intended to be the ultimatum. He said
that the Noble Lord, who spoke last, talked much of the
necessity of supporting government and Administration,
as if they were fynonimous terms. For his part, he
looked upon them to be extremely different, and a . Wronger
proof need not be given than that though Administration
were swept away, government would nevertheless remain
the fame. If the Noble Lord had not asserted it himfelf,
he could hardly have imagined a commission was granted,
and inttrudtions given, without any fpecific directions
whatever, farther than to found the difpoJition of America,
or, in other words, to feel its pulse.
LORD NORTH said a few words by way of explana
tion. He observed, that if we were in doubt whether we
should be able to maintain our right, it was at least our
duty to try, and exert every means in our power. The
stake we played for was a great and important one, and
we fliould exert every nerve to obtain it. It was the
with of Administration to avoid the effilfion of blood as
much as possible ; but nothing fpecific could be done till
the claims of America were known; then it would be
time enough to acquaint Parliament, who would be
enabled to judge whether they were such as would ac
cord with the dignity and interests of this country.
Mr. FOX was uncommonly violent. He doubted much
if the Commissioners were at all impowered to treat, or even
to found; but were rather in/lruHed to carry fire, sword
and dei)aflation, wherever they were to ro. He dwelt a
considerable time on the wanton cruelties exercised in
the course of our naval operations, Inch as burning the
towns of Norfolk in Virginia, and of Falmouth. I-le said
it was a barbarous difpolition to do mifchief for mifehief's
lake; it was unmanly, base, and would for ever remain
a disgrace to the British arms. He spoke much of a cer
tain par phict (Dr. Price's) and observed that it had
opened the eyes of the people, who saw plainly that this
country was brought to the brink of ruin and deftru&ion,
and that the firft great event would probably be an ac
count of Gen. Howe's total defeat, followed by a national
bankruptcy; and concluded with observing that one
general system of power had of late years been adopted,
which was uniformly directed to annihilate and overturn
the liberties of this country; that this plan had been
uniemittingly pursued by the Minister; that Slavery was
the ultimate object of all his measures, and that it
mattered very little who was the deviser of this unnatural
conspiracy, for it was plain that the Minister, by the
whole tenor of his condud, had made h'imfelf responsible
'° 'he nation; he pursued with ardor, and without rc
morfe, whatever desperate scheme bis traiterous and
concealed employers chalked cut for him.
Mr. ADAMS disapproved of the motion, because it
was unusual to call forinllru&ions till fomethiug had been
done in the business; and that, however, he formed little
or no expectation from the commission which was the
lubjeft of the present motion. He believed it would
meet with a limilar fate to that of the Noble Lord's con
ciliatory propolition: That was, in his opinion, surrender
ing the dignity of Parliament to answer no purpose. He
LORD GEORGE GERMAINE said the Commission
ers had no power to enter into any treaty whatever with our
rebellious fubjebls in America, farther than to receive the
fubmiflons of jueb as were disposed to return to them duty,
and acknowledge the authority of the British Parliament ;
and as the Parliament had age eed to fend Commissioners, he
had no doubt but those named by his Alaje/ly were the Jitieft
for effecting the objects of the commifon." It was proper to
make the experiment; none of the operations on sea or land
would be fufbended; and though the matter should not be
brought to maturity, nor the objects of the commfion fuc
cred, it was necefary that the intentions of Parliament
should be comp lied with.
COLONEL BARRE took notice that the noble Lord
in the blue ribband hid confefled that the Commissioners
ivere sent out not to treat, but to found. He said it was a
happy, and he believed a very proper expreflion ; it might
be every way descriptive of the fate of the errand, and it
was not very improbable that both the noble Commillion
er and his brother would be employed in founding the
coasts of America (a loud laugh on the opposition fide of
the House.) He said he knew both the gentlemen ex
tremely well; they were men of integrity and high ho
nour; of eminent ikill in their refpeCtive profeffions. He
had served with one of them in America during the late
war, and was personally acquainted with the other; but
at the fame time, he did not think that Administration
could have picked out two men more unqualified for the
effectuating so abstruse, difficult and arduous a business,
.as that committed to their charge by the commission. He
was extremely severe on the conduct of Administration ;
said the armaments both by sea and land were fhamefully
delayed; that neither were the troops nor transports
ready; part of the Hessians had not yet left Germany,
though the zzd 'OT May was arrived.
Surely Ministers, ignorant as they were, could not
imagine that troops Hill in Germany would arrive early
enough in America, this season, to carry on the opera
tions of au offenfive war, a war of conquest. He then
took a general view of the state of the whole empire, and
its feyeral parts of Ireland, and the East and Weft-Indies.
He said, the Parliament of Ireland, from its obsequious
ness to the Minister, had rendered that country 'totally
defencelefs, by dripping it of its troops; that the Fall-
Indies was in a state of internal confulion, and external
imbecility; that the Weft-Indies was on the eve of a
famine, and that North-America was lor ever loft; so
that, without any attempt from a foreign enemy, the
confluences to be expected were dreadful t think on ;
but if France ihould take an advantage jf such a Hate oF
things, one or all of them must fall a prey to the ambi
tious designs of that restless power.
GOV. JOHNSTONE elofed the debate, and was per
sonally severe on the Minilter. He expatiated greatly on
the numerous infamous jobs that were every day going
on, and enumerated the various methods there were de
vised for creating corrupt majorities in that House. He
spoke of the licences granted by the Admiralty Board, and
remarked a curious fiCt which had come out in the papers
laid before the House, which was a contract of Sir James
Cockburn, and James Bogle French, for ten thousand
gallons of rum, at four (hillings per gallon, though it
was well known that the contrast might be executed at
two shillings a gallon. No wonder that the people were
plundered, and the Ration undone. No wonder that
there were decisive majorities in that House, and nu
merous addresses from every pact of the kingdom. Na
wonder that the American war was become a favourite
war with the majority of the House, though hated and
disapproved of by every man in the kingdom, who had
not a personal interest in its continuance.
The question was put at half after ten, and the House
divided. Ayes 85, Noes 171.
begged that such gentlemen, as did him the honour to
remember any thing he said, would recoiled that he fore
told the fate of that proportion the very instant it was
made, and he teas inclined to think that the tommiffion
ahd inllrrf&ions would meet with the fame fate. He was
always of opinion that no middle path could be Itruck
out; that either America must be abandoned, or the
legislative controul of this country be maintained without
(liminu^on; for as focal as the authority of this country
came to be a conditional authority, unless the conditions
were prescribed by Greatßritain, we should from that
instant cease to have fubitantial or beneficial authority
over America at all.
Mr. T. TOWNSHEND observed, that Parliament had
talked in a high Brain against America, but what Parlia
ment thought or resolved, one way or the other, was of
very little consequence, for Administration would aft just
as they liked. Parliament, instead of taking the lead,
was at length degraded into a mere engine of government,
one day to bully, another to conciliate, and the next he
forefaw would be to sue for terms to America. Such was
the case a few years back, in the case of Lord Hilifbo
rough's circulatory letter to the colonies; while Parlia
ment was asserting the supremacy of this country, and
the unlimited, unconditional right of taxation over Ame
rica, this letter contained the most fpecific declaration
that no tax whatever ihould be ever laid on that country^
He said, however, that that letter was productive of much
worse consequences than barely contradicting the feme of
Parliament; a British administration Was no longer to be
relied on, for the felcmn engagement made for his Ma
jesty to three millions of b.s lubjeCts was no sooner
made than it was fhamefully violated. What dependence
then could America have on any future promise? How
could they tru^ to the sincerity of cur profeffions, when
all Administration had to do would be, to get Parliament
to overrule them, or remove the Minister under whole
immediate directions the faith of the nation had been
pledged. This was precisely the case with the letter in
question,; America rested fatistied with the affurauces it
contained,.and when the system was to be changed, the
Minister was removed, and his engagement on the part of
this nation set at naught, as a mere unauthorised act of
office.
MARK FR it EMA N
HAS lemoved his STORE from Markerftreet to Front,
street, the sth door from the corner of Chestnut-street ; he
requests those that have any demands against him to bring in
the ; r accompts, to be adjured and paid ; and all those that are
indebted to him, he requests to make immediate payment, at said
store, or at his lodgings; at Mrs. Yard's, in Second-street, near
Walnut-street ; he particularly informs those w,hofe accompts
have been long Landing (and have neglected to fettle them by
bond) if they do not, in one month from this date, either come
and pay them oft, or fettle them by bond, they will be sued,
without any further notice. Ofloher 16, 1776. 1 m.
CAME to Greenwich-Point Ferry, eppofite Gloucester,
about ten days ago, a trespassing small dark brown MARE,
branded on the near buttock S. S. a small star in her forehead
and an iron collar about her neck. The owner is desired to
curne, prove property, pay charges, 2nd take her away.
O^hr 14, 1776. q Richard Renshaw.