The New-Jersey journal — Chatham, N.J., 1782-03-20 00:00:00, page 1

[Vol. IV.]
LONDON.
HOUSE of PEERS.
Tuesday, December 18.
NX? ENT through, in committee, the bill for
▼▼ detaining and securing persons fufpe&ed or
changed wi h High Treason.
Read a second time, and committed for to morrow,
the Malt and Land Tax Bills.
Wednesday, December 19.
READ a third time, and paiied the Ame ican
Habeas Cotpus Bill.
Ordered that all the Lords be summoned toattend
his Majesty on the morrow in this House,
A motion being made for the third reading, of the
Land and Malt Tax Bill, the Marquis of Rocking
ham objected to the final passing of so important a
Bill in so thin a House, and when so little considera
tion had been given by their Lordfllips to the objed,
extent and naure of the Bill If the ultimate deci
sion upon so material a fubje& should be deferred till
after the recess, and the House be properly summon
ed for taking it into consideration, many Peers, he
said, would doubtless attend, who were not then
present, and many arguments would be fuggelled from
different quarters, as to the expediency of acceding
to the Bill. For his own part, bethought it became
the House to use the utmost caution in confiding a
frefh sum of money to the hands of men who had
managed the pad supplies with so little difetetion,
and had given such reptaed proofs of their inability
and protufion. What advantage refused from the
continual indulgence of Parliament in trulling such
immense sums to their disposal ? Did they expend it
in extending our territories ? Did they expend it in
protesting our trade, or in supporting our national
character ?—No! We were inferior in every part of
the world, and nothing but disgrace and defeat at.
tended their measures and operations. The p efent
moments were big with disaster ; and it was no lon
ger than yesterday, that the utmott disgrace had been
reflexed upon the naval force of this country. We
had been obliged, after the empty parade of an ex
pelled vidory, to fly before the enemy, and take (bel
ter in port, which had be:n the common place of re
fuge during the whole of the war.—Under these cir
cumftinces, the noble Marquis thought it highly pro
per that the g eateft difereoon should be observed in
adding new powers of mifehief to men who had al
ready done so much, and therefore moved, " That
the thirds reading of the Bill in question, be deferred
till the fi ft Wednesday after the recefs.'
Lord Stormont rose to reply, and began with fay
ing, that as the noble Marquis bad thrown out some
imputation against the conduct of Ministers, guarded
and decent indeed in their manner, (as was always
the custom of the noble Lord) he thought it incum
bent on him to fay a few words upon the matter then
under consideration, but he should not attempt to
follow the noble Marquis through all the topics of
complaint upon which he had amplified, not thinking
it necessary just at that moment to enter into a dis
cussion, where there was danger or where there was
hope in the different parts of the British empire ; but
having heard every thing that had fallen from the
noble Marquis, with all the attention he was capable
of, he should endeavour to submit to their Lordfh.ps
the general scope of the argument of the noble Mar
quis, and to appeal to their own feelings whether it
was (efficiently cogent to induce them, in the present
hour of preffare, to w t hold that part of the supplies,
which was usually granted by /Parliament, previous to
the Chrillmas recess. The noble Marquis had dwelt
particularly on the dangerous situation of the coun
try, which he had described with great force, by ci
ting a variety of fads, (whether founded or nor, was
not for him to deny or to admit,) but all of which
tended to render the position of the noble Speaker the
more alarming ; and yet pressed on every fide, as the
country was allowed to be, the noble Marquis had in
effea ended with faying, that therefore he humbly
moved, that the supplies might be withheld, tba: the
wheels of Government might be clogged, that the
operations of the executive power might be put a flop
to, that the means of defending the country might be
refufed, and that we might be obliged to stand flock
Hill, just at the very moment when it was confeffed
N E W- J ERSEY JOURNAL.
WEDNESDA Y, March 20, 1782.
on all hands, that there was the greatest necessity for
vigour and exertion. This being the result of the
argument of the noble Marquis his Lordship flatter
ed himfelf it was not necessary for him to use many
words, to persuade the House to refufe their consent
to a motion so dangerous to the public welfare, and
so direftly oppofire to every principle of good policy.
The noble Marquis mull therefore excuse him, if be
declared that he should vote for reading the Bill a third
time, as had been originally moved.
The Duke of Chandos entered into a derail of the
various disasters that had attended the prosecution of
this unfortunate war. After recapitulating several
instances of misfortune, his Grace observed, that he
had in his poffeflion at this moment, some advices
from Barbadoes, in which island he poflefled a very
confiderab'e property, of a more recent date, and a
more authentic kind than any tat had arrived in this
country, informing him that no doubt vas to be en
tertained before those letters reached him, that that
ifand would be in feofeffion of the French. The ene
my were at that time adlu^ly i, fi. ht, and as there
was no power or force in t\ T land adequate 10 re
filling them, and no appearancetf any naval affitt
ance from our fleets in that quarter, no hope of faying
it could be entertained for a moment. The difficul
ties and labours to which administration were fubjed,
his Grace observed, were every day diminishing, and
they would be now relieved by this last disaster---to
tally relieved from any further attention to one of the
greased, nobleh, and most important islands in the pos
session of this country.
Lord Wefmoreland said, the present appeared to
him to be as extraordinaty a motion as had ever been
made; and he believed neither the noble Marquis nor
the noble Duke could shew him a single precedent for
it. -He begged their Lordships to recoiled, that at
the revolution all the public revenues had been alie
nated from the Crown, and that a bargain had been
made between the Crown and Parliament, for the
latter to allow the former a certain annuity for the
payment of the expences of the civil lift, and likewise
to grant such supplies for the purpose of supporting
the Government, and defending the kingdom, as the
nature of affairs might, from time to time, require.
Hence some supply Parliament was bound to grant,
as well in time of peace as in time of war; and it
flruck him to be a very singular circumstance, that
when the occasions of the Bate were allowed, on all
hands, to be most pressing, it should at that time be
argued that it was either wife or necessary to withhold
the usual supplies. His Lordship reminded the House,
that large fleets and armaments were now preparing
for foreign service; feme for the Weft-lndies, and
some for a more distant part of the world, the East-
Indies. He asked, would they consent to put a flop
to those essential services being proceeded upon, would
they complete that ruin, which was said to be neatly
accomplished, by one violent a&, by withholding the
fpplies, by taking away the vital spring of every
motion of Government? Whether the present Mi
rifters were honest or able, and whether the misfor
tunes and the ill success thaf had attended the efforts
made by this country, were afcribeable to them or
not, was, he observed, a mere matter of opinion.
The nob e Marquis might entertain one idea upon
the febjeft, he had a right to entertain an< ther, and
so had any other Lord. If, however, the supplies
were to be withheld till an administration that was
agreeable to the nob'e Marquis, and his friends was
fettled, their opinions on that fubjeft were obviously
so various and contradictory that he feared agreeing
to the present motion, would be to withhold the sup
plies altogether. He saw no profpe& of that Bench's
fixing either upon a set of men, or a system of meafu r es ,
agreeable to the minds of all of them. His Lordship
mentioned the language he had heard held against the
present Ministers in another House, and quoted what
had been said upon their condud. In particular, he
alluded to a gentleman having strongly argued, that
the French Cabinet could not but wish well to those
Minift rs who had given them Tobago; St. Vincent's,
Grenada, and Dominique. For his part, he knew
the cause of such an attack, and he regarded it ac
cordingly; he believed rhe French Cabinet used their
best endeavours to do that, respecting the prelent
Ministers, which a particular party in this country
THE
had long made it their constant business to do, viz;
to traduce their characters, to weaken their efforts,
to frufbate their plans, toimpede their operations, to
defeat the execution of them, and to prevent the me
rited success of their mnlures. His Lordship added
a few words more, and concluded with declaring
that he should vote against the amendment proposed
by the noble Marquis.
Ihe Marquis cf Rockingham rose to fay a word
or two reflecting a part of what had fallen from the
noble Lord io the Green Ribband. The noble Vis
count had charged him with designing to flop the ex
ertions of his Majesty's Ministers. So far from ha
ving any such purpose in view, it was their want of
exertion he complained of. It was to their want of
exertion that every cne of the misfortunes of the war
had been owing. Had not they wanted exertion,
Mr. Kempenfelt would not have been sent with twelve
fail of the line to fight nineteen. And what was the
country to expert in the present hour of uncommon
danger, without a better navy ? What comfort was
to be derived from the language of those in office up
on that fubjkfl ? It had, he underflood, been declared
by a Lord of the Admiralty, that our navy not only
was at present inferior to that of the House of Bour
bon, but that it never could be otherwise. How was
this melancholy assertion to be reconciled to the de
claration of the firft Lord of the Admiralty in that
House a session or two since ? He would nor pretend
to fay, that his memory was (efficiently accurate to
enable him to state the fpecific words used by the no.
ble Earl on the fubjeft, but the purport of them most
clea ly was, " That a firft Lord of the Admiralty de
served to lose his head, if he did not at all times take
care to have a navy fit to face that of the House of
Bourbon." Was that the case now? Would it be
pretended that our navy was any thing like equal to
that of the House of Bourbon ? We had but too fa
tally experienced, that the reverse was the fad. The
recent affair of Admiral Kempenfelt was but one ad
dition to the many proofs of our inferiority, that we
had seen and lamented. A noble Lord had charged
him with wishing to prevent any supplies being vo
ted at all. His motion laid no such thing, nor had
his argument tended to support such a suggestion. He
had expressly moved, that the third reading be defer
red till the firft day after the recess. It was in the
power of the Ministers to bring that firft day as for
ward, and make the recess as short as they plealed.
Let them adjourn for ten days, or a fortnight, if they
choose it. But he must contend against the practice
of late years, of bringing on the most material busi
ness of any that ever did, or ever could, come before
Parliament, viz. the votingfupplies out of the pub
lic purse, precipitately, at a time when the Members
of both Houses were chiefly gone into the country,
when the town itfelf was empty, and when it was
known that there would be but a thin attendance.^
This was done marely to accommodate Ministers;
but it was in his opinion extremely wrong and ex
tremely indecent. The Maquis asked, where was
the peace with Holland, that had been so long talked
of? The Dutch, he feared, would not harken to any
thing said by that Administration, which had treated
their Republic so ill. But where was our Ally ? Re
port said, the Empress of Ruflia was willing to be
our friend. He should be happy to find the rumour
of Russia's having declared friendly intentions towards
us was founded, and chat the news paper account of
a treaty being on foot, was authentic. He knew that
the-e was a policy in Ruflia, which dictated friend-
Blip and good willies to Great Britain. The Empress
had the power, be hoped (he had likewise the incli
nation. The Marquis added some other obfervati*
ons, and persisted in his Motion.
Lord Sandwich rose, to answer a part of the No
ble Marquis's argument which refoeded himfelf.
With regard to the motion, he said, he could not
think there was the least necessity for him to take
up the time of their Lprdfhips, by endeavouring to
persuade them, at a moment like the present, of
the extreme difficulty that would arise to govern
ment, if the supplies were withheld ; the fad was
so felf-evident, that no illuftmion he was able to
give it could possibly make it appear more striking
than it was ; he would therefore confine himfelf to
those parts of the speech of the noble Marquis which
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