The Newhampshire gazetteer — Exeter, N.H., 1789-09-05 00:00:00, page 1

Congressional Matters,
PROCEEDINGS OF THE
'LEGISLATURE of th. UNlON
(Continued,)
MOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES,
Hereyeu may rangt the muerld from pole to pole, Increase,our knovolege,and delightjour foul; Travel all countries,andinf orm,ourfenfe, With case andfafet, at a final! ex„ n fe.
The speakers against the motion
Severally expressed ,themselves in fa
vour of taking up the fubjed as soon
as the judicial, executive and revenue
departments were so far compleated
that it could be said with propriety
we had a government.
In support of the motion it was ob
served—That fence the ftbje& firft had
been introduced, so much time has
eTap fed, that if it is not taken up, the
people will be led to suppose, that it
is the intention of Congress never to
do any thing in the business-r-that the
-people are extremely anxious upon the
fubjeft—and nothing short of a con
,viaion that those rights, which they
conceive to be in danger as the Con
fitution now stands, will be placed in
.• Rate of greater security, will quiet
their apprehensions—that the number
Sf those in favour of amendments con
fled of a large and refpe&able pro
portion of the citizens of the United
States—that the peace and tranquility
jpf the Union depend on a proper at
rtention to theirjuft expectations— that
jf thpfe Who are anxioutfor amend
ments, had been added to those who
openly opposed the Constitution, it
.would have probably met a quite dif
faent fate— that except these amende
The immediate adoption of this
motion was advocated by Nlr. Maddi
jon, Mr. Page, and Mr. Hartley —and
pppofed by Mr. Sedgnuick,'Nlr. Smith,
(S.C.) Mr. Gerry, Mr. Laurance, and
Mr. Sherman —The latter gentlemen
generally observed, That there was a
great variety of bufinefsbefore the
JHoufe, which it is of the greatest im
portance ffiould precede the contidera
lion of all other—that it appears ab
surd to make alteration in a form of
government, beforeit has an operative
existence— that it is of the firft conse
quence to complect the judiciary bill
to-that without this and several other
bills now pending in the House, we
cannot carry one of the revenue laws
into execution—not a breach of the
lawsof the United States can be pun
ched—not a veffed can be seized—
The difeuffion of the fubjea at this
moment, will obftrua the wheels of
government and throw every thing
into confufion, mean time the United
States are without law, and have no
.authority to punish a single crime. It
was further said, that few, if any of
the State assemblies are in session, and
therefore it will unnecessarily con fume
the present time which is so precious
—that the people reposing full confi
dence in the justice and wisdom of the
House that this fubjed would have
fafonable and due attention paid to
it, are as anxious and solicitous to fee
the government in operation, as they
are about amendments.
THURSDAY, AUGUST I|.
CT'HE engrossed bill providing for
theexpenfes of negociations and
treating with the Indians, &c. was
-read, and passed to be enaded.
Mr. Lee moved that the House
should resolve itfelf into a Committee
es the whole on the state of the Union,
to take into consideration the report
of the committee on amendments to
the Constitution.
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merits are made, the government will
want the confidence of the people,
'and that energy which is necessary to
its exittence= that the fame reasons for
a postponement have repeatedly been
assigned, and there is no profpea that
a more convenient opportunity will
offer. The question being put on the
motion of Mr. Lei, it passed in the af
;firmative. • The, H,ufe accordingly
-formed into a committee of the whole
•■•hriir. Boudinot in the chair.
Mr. Smith (S. C.) in answer to
Mr. Tucktr, (hewed that this amend
ment had been recommended by three
states ; and that it was proper it should
be made. ' - ..
Mr. Tun Kite replied that hr was
not opposed to the principle, but tho't
this was an improper place to express
it; it could be inferred with proprie
ty in a bill of rights, if one should be
agreed on, and in that form bepefix
[ A length, debate then took place —
whether the amendments jhould he in
corporated in the hod, of the Constitution;
or he Subjoined in a fparnte aEl,which
terminated in favour of the firft propo
fition.]
The firft amendment was again read,
which was to prefix to the introdafto
ry paragraph, these words, " Govern
ment being intended for the benefit of
the people and the rightful establish
ment thereof being derived from their
authority alone,"
Mr. Gerry objeded to the phra
seology of this clause ; it might seem
to 'imply that all governments were
inftituted^nd intended for the benefit
of the people, which was not true, —
Indeed molt of the governments both
of ancient and modern times, were cal
culated .on very different principles.
They had chiefly originated in fraud
or in force ; and were defined for the
purpose of oppression and personal am
bition. He wished to have nothing
go out from this body as a maxim,
which was falfe in fad, or which was
not clear in its ponftrudion. He mov
ed to alter the clause, by inserting the
words "of right." ^
This motion was negatived,
Mr. Tucker objected to any a
mendments being\made to the pream
ble of the Constitution. This, he said,
was no part of the Constitution, and
the object was only to amend the Con
stitution: The preamble was no more
a fubjed of amendment than the lat.
t,r of The President annexed to the
Conftitution.i
In the second paragraph which re.
feeds the number of Representatives,
it was moved that the words " one
hundred and feventy-five" be struck
out, and two hundred inserted. This
motion obtained.
In committee of the whole on the
fubjea of amendments.
Some progress was made in the dis
cussion of the report of the feled com
mittee.— The quest on on the firft pa
ragraph, after a short debate, was put
and carried in the affirmative.
In the introductory paragraph of the
Constitution, before the words " We
the people," add, " Government be
ingintended for the benefit of the
People, and their rightful establish
ment thereof being derived from their
authority alone."
The third paragraph, refpeaing the
compensation to the members of the
Legislature was also agreed to.
The report of the committee was
then read— the firft article of which is
in these words, viz.
FRIDAY, AUGUST Ifo
AMENDMENTS,
T H E
This was negatived without a divi
sion.
Mr. Ames then moved to strike out
the word "thirty" and insert "forty;"
so that the ratio of represen tation
should be one for forty thousand— He
went into a train of reasoning to prove
the superior advantage of a (mail re
presentation : He drew an argument,
in the firft place, from the Satisfaction
which the people universally expressed
in the present representation, that
their minds were reconciled to it, and
were convinced that a more faithful
and more prompt difeharge of the bu
nefs of the Union would take place in
so Small an assembly. Experience had
taught them that all the information
that was necessary, both of a general
and local nature, would be found ir. a
body similar to the present. He fug
getted the importance of the expense
of a numerous representation, as a ca
pital burthen, which would soon be
come diffatisfa&ory to the people,—
According to the ratio of one to 30,000
the increase of the people would swell
the representation to an enormous
mass, whose support would be infuf
ferable, and whose deliberations would
be rendered almost impra&icable.—,
The present population would, on the
firft census, produce upwards of too.
The augmentation would be very ra
pid „it was therefore proper to fix the
proportion immediately, so as to P re -I
vent these evils—He went very copi
oufty into the usual arguments to prove
that all numerous pppular bodies are
liable in proportion to their number,
of flaquations, fermentations) and a
Second amendment; from Art. I.
Se&. 2, par. 3, strike out all between
die word " dired" and," until such,"
and instead thereof insert, " after the
firft enumeration, there ihall be one
representative for every thirty thoof
and, until the/number Iball amount to
one hundred ; after which the pro
portion (hall be so regulated by Con
gress, that the number of representa
tives Ihall never be less than one hun
dred, nor more than one hundred and
feventy-five,but each state (hall always
have at least one representative,"
Mr. Vining moved that a clause
Ihould be inserted in the paragraph,
providing that when any one state pos
sessed forty-five thousand inhabitants,
it ffioold be entitled to two reprefen-,
tatives.
ed to the Constitution, but the pre
amble was not the place for it.
Others objected to the whole claafe
as it was unnecessary, since the words,
" We the people" contained in itfelf
the principle of the amendment frilly.
Mr. Sberman observed, that if the
Constitution had been a grant from
another power, it would be proper to
express this principle ; bat as the right
•xpreffed in the amendment was natu
ral and inherent in the people, it is
unnecessary to give any reasons or any
ground on which they made their
Constitution. It was ,he ad of their
own sovereign will. It was also said
that it would injure the beauty of the
preamble.
Mr. Maddison contended for the
amendments— He saw no difficulty in
associating the amendment with the
preamble without injuring the pro
priety or sense of the paragraph. Tho'
it was indisputable that the principle
was on all hands acknowledged, and
could itfelf derive no force from ex-°
pressing, yet he thought it prudent to
insert it, as it had been recommended
by three refpedable dates.
The question on adopting the a
mendment being put, was carried in
the affirmative.
He thought also that to fix the ratio
at even 40,000 for one would not pre
vent the abuses which Mt, Ames ap
prehended ; for before the second cen
sus should be taken, it was probable
that the increase of population would
be so great as to make the body very
large—There was little choice, there
fore, with a view to futurity, between
one ratio or the other ; but as this of
I for 30,000 was the proportion con
templated and proposed by the Rates, ,
it was most advisable to adopt it.
Mr. Gerry, Mr. Sedgwick,Mr.
Livermore, Mr. Jackson,and Mr.
Seney opposed the amendment; and
Mr. Ames replied to them largely —
The question being taken, Mr. Ames's
proposition was rejected.
Mr. Tucker moved to strike out
the firft "one hundred" in the amend
ment, & to insert "two hundred," and
then to ftiike out the rest of the para
graph— so that the representation
should not be left than two hundred,
nor should Congress have a diferetion
to fix any ratio of increase, but that
such proportion should be adopted as
famous spirit—By enlarging the re
prefencation, the government, he said,
would depart from that choice of cha
racters who could best represent the
wisdom and the interest of the United
States ; and who would alone be able
to support the importance and digni
ty of this branch of the legislature —
Men would be introduced, more lia
ble to improper influences, and more
easy tools for designing leaders.
Mr, Ames said it appeared clear co
him, that as the whole numbefwas
increa fed, the individual con sequence,
the pride of character, and consequent
ly the responsibility of each member.
The responsibility would also be in •
some proportion to the number of the
constituents. A representative of a
large body of people would feel in a
higher degree the weight imposed up
on him, and he would be therebythe
more interested to support a virtuous
fame, and redouble his exertions for
the publick good.
Mr. Ames contended that the orb
g:nal design of those who proposed tha
amendments refpefting representation,
was not to obtain an increase beyond
what the firft census would give them;
their intention was to fix a limitation,
that it ffiould not be itt the power of
Gongrefs to diminish the representa
tion at any time, below the point of
security. Their object was certainly
not augmentation.
Mr. Ames was much more ample in
his arguments, bet want of time obli
ges as rather to fetch the topicks on
which he dwelt, than pursue the con
nected chain of his ideas.
Mr. Maddison in reply, infilled
that the principal design of' these a
mendments was toconciliate the minds
of the people, and prudence required
that the opinion of the states who had
opposed the important amendment in
contemplation, should be attended to.
He said it was a fad that some dates
had not confined themselves to limita
tion, but had proposed an increase of
the number ; he did not conceive ic
to be very necessary in this caie to in
vestigate the advantages or difadvari#
tages of a numerous reprefemtation ;
He acknowledged that beyond a cer
tain point the number might be incon
venient. The point was a matter yet
of uncertainty. It was true, that nu
merous bodies were liable to some a.
buses ; but if on one hand they were
prone to those evils which the geode
men had mentioned, they were on the
other hand less susceptible of com
lion.
[Vol. T.— Numb. 4