The New York packet, and the American advertiser — New York [N.Y.], 1776-02-29 00:00:00, page 1

DEBATES IN the IRISH HOUSE
of COMMONS.
(Continued from our las.)
^fy^*^^& R. Gardiner considered the
.b^°"'^"*° j*J quellion in a two-fold light;
& § s°>°°s § § firft, in regard to the relati-
M| on in which we Stand to
G% ^cc 00 ^ I Q Great-Britain and America,
J^CODO^,:and Secondly in regard to
*'^^*^^* ourselves. In refpe& to die
firff,'the question is not whether America relift
ed firft, or whether die was opprefled firft? but
at present it fttinds only, whether America
mould be for ever loft to Great-Britain, or not?
He heartily wished a reconciliation might take
place, but th, could only be effected by having
a power to enforce it. Men, whose very ex
igence in their offices depend on war, will never
be iincere advocates for peace. The greater
force sent to America, the less Sanguinary will
be the measure; and, he was clearly of opini
on, had there been as many troops in America
bast spring as there will be the next, not a sword
would now have been unSheathed. It is our
duty and interest to assist Great-Britain, if we
can; but we cannot spare so many men from
the defence of this country, if they are not
somewhere replaced. The dispositions of the
nations around us forbid us to leave Ireland de
fencelefs. In his late tour he had an opportu
nity of converting with intelligent persons in di
vers courts of Europe, and, by what he could
gather, he was assured, they looked upon the con
test with America, as a means ofweakening us;
and when our neighbours thought us Sufficient
ly weakened, then they would not fail to attack
us in our most defencelefs part. The Spaniards
had a greater force than ever they had since the
time of the Armada, commanded by an Irish
man, who v^ould omit no opportunity to invade
that country, against which he was embittered
by being banished from it. Ifthefe troops went
away without being replaced, we Should be de
fcncelefs. By the most accurate accounts, there
were but Sroo real fighting men in Ireland ;
and ifa fourth part of them were sent abroad,
he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir
John Blaquiere) or he would ask the Comman
der in Chief (ifhe were in the house) whether
either would undertakethe defence ofthis king
dom with the remainder, without any addition.
He did not conceive there could be more danger
from foreign troops than from natives ; they
were unacquainted with our language, and un
connected with our people, and therefore less
liable to desertion. He abb thought the saving
from this measure was of great importance; ne
vertheless, before he would give his aftent to the
reflation, he must be assured of two things—.
one, that the men sent abroad will certainly be
replaced ; the other, that the saving of the 4000
mens pay will not remain a surplus in the trea
sury, exposed to the grasp of a Minister, but be
deducted from the total of the, supplies in the
present money bill. [N. B. Mr. Gardiner vo
ted against the queftion.]
Mr. Carleton spoke a long time, to prove
there could be no danger of a precedent making
against us : and he enlarged on the evil conse
quences that would ensue from irritating Great-
Britain, by relufing this request.
Mr. Warden Flood espoused the measure, as
it was not any augmentation, but a lessening of
the national expence.<
Mr. George Ogle laid, he was not to be inti
midated by any threats of ill consequences aris
ing from a refufal. He was averse to fend men
with fwordsin their hands, to cut the throats of
their American brethren. That the ample fop
plies given by this exhausted and (haggling
country were Sufficient testimonies of cur loyal
ty; and it was highly improper to fend men to
punilh ip others what they would do in the
fame case.---This measure was doubtless deter
mined on the very firft day of the session ; and
that was the cause why the compact of keep
ing 12,000 men here was so ftri&ly observed.
The foreign troops cannot be called our own
troops, if we do not pay them ; they will fight
f>r those only who do. A land tax will proba
bly be attempted here; and if it does not suc
ceed (as certainly it cannot) then it will belaid
on by the British Parliament, and the foreign
Loo; s will bo left here to enforce obedience.—
ASSIZE of BREAD. Flour at 19 s. per Ct.
AWheatea Loaf of the fineft FLOUR, to
weigh i lb. 8 1-2 gz. for 4 Coppers.
VO. L. I. N U^M B.q
THE '"
k^,t«V lilt'llif K. I^^rai h%%| 11 Ij^l ^
AMERICAN ^^^CT^A^ ADVERTISER.
THURSDAY r r p a P
1 u D A , FEBRUARY 29th, 1776.
Published Mn. 2,177 g.
Printed by S AMUEL LOUDON, in Water-Street, between the Coffee-House and the Old Slip.
Thursday, 33 Min. after g
Friday,, 17 Min. after 6
Saturday, 6 Min. after 7
Sunday, 30 Min. after 7
Mr. Attorney General answered, that all'
troops, foreigners as well as natives, were re
fponlible to the laws of this country, as soon
as they set loot therein.
Sir James Cotter replied, he was glad to find
they were, yet he thought the measure very ex
ceptionable. But it they did come, it would
be better to pay them ourfclves than not, espe
cially as the expence was already provided for
in the establishment.
Mr. Langrifne replied to the objections of
sundry gentlemen, and observed that the saving
on the military eftabliffiment was not the only
advantage that would be derived from the fo
reign troops, but all their pay would be ex
pended in this country, tothe advantage thereof.
Mr. Barry Barry was of opinion that the men
might be Spared, without their being replaced
with foreign troops.
Mr. Redmond Morres observed, however we
might be able to spare these men, yet it would
be very improper to do so, and if the foreign
troops did come, he hoped they would rather be
quartered in the country than at Dublin, where
the people would not be contented with them.
Mr. Mason urged, that by the address of the
house to his Majesty, it had expressed its sense
that America was in rebellion. He observed,
that agreeing to the firft resolution did not bind
them to agree to the second, though he was of
opinion it was proper to agree to both.
Mr. Yelverton declared it was still his opini
on, as it was at the opening of the fidlion, that
the refinance of the Americans was not rebellion,
and how could he consent to aid the fate of A
merica, which depended upon the decision of
that night. The question indeed was import
ant, and decision very delicate. If we refufe
his Majesty's request, we incur the displeasure
of Great Britain; if we comply, we aid the ar
bitrary designs of a despotic minidry. In this
dilemma what can guide us? Nothing but rea
son and justice. We have two acts of parliament
declaring that 12,000 men are necessary for the
defence of the kingdom; and we have just re
folded the fame in the Committee of Supplies.
Now if we agree $0 part with a third part of
That number, when there is no rebellion or in
vasion in Great Britain, we c^ntradidt those ads
of the legislature, and belie our own resolutions.
Great Britain pretends to a supreme authority
over all her dominions, as well in regard to in
ternal taxation, as to commercial regulations.
Does not this assertion include Ireland? It cer
tainly does, and nothing is wanting but a plan-]
While Parliament here will do all that is absurd
wefhall, no doubt, have a Parliament, just as
the Romans had a Senate in the times of the
Empetors, but only to give a fimdion to the
Emperor's dictates. He was, he said, alarmed
by the manner in which the two resolutions
were treated by administration. The firft was
the measure of government, and as such was
supported—the last was the measure of Parlia
inent, and as such was flighted by administrati
on ; just as it they said, “ Grant us the 4000
more, and then take care for your own defence
as you please." If men muff be sent to Ameri
ca, fend those foreign mercenaries, not the
brave sons of Irekhd. Gentlemen have said,
Ministers must have power to enforce concilia
tion ; but we know few Ministers, who have
power to enforce, will attend to the voice of jus
tice ; they will act as Brennius, the Gaul, aid
with the vanquished Romans---he viewed the
tribute money exacted from them, and threw his
sword in the opposite scale. But if these men
must go, why must we have foreign troops for
our defence? why not raise the militia? They
are our natural, our constitutional defence, and
the railing them is practicable.
Captain Jephfon observed, that we have no
reason to be so tender of the Americans, who
had treated us ill; they had resolved in their
Congress to receive no commodities from, nor
have any commerce with Ireland; and this de
claration not only set us at defiance, but fully
proves that they do not think us so infatuated
as to take their parts.
Sir James Cotter asked whether the foreign
troops, when they came here, were to be ame
nable to outlaws, or their own, and repeated
the instance of the Hanoverian soldier at Maid
ftone.
HIGH WATER at NEW-YORK.
Monday, 33 Min. after S
Tuesday, 15 Min. after 9
Wednesday, 57 Min. after 9
Full Moen, gth of March.
fible pretext, or a proper opportunity to inforce
it. 1 his has teen iniorced in America ; this
caused the war, and therefore the war is unjutt.
Let Great Britain enjoy the wealth of both the
Indies: Let London be the grand emporium
of Europe; let her exert her commercial power
over the sea from pole to pole; but let us fay
to it as to the sea, Hither tboufbalt come and no
jartber. If these bounds are exceeded, human
nature will not submit without murmuring, nor
freeborn British fobje&s without refinance. The
changes have been long rung about; taxation
and representation, but men have bewildered
themselves on that fubjed, for want of setting
out on proper and legal grounds; representa
tion is not a representation of persons but of
property. At firft writs were issued to all who
held of the Crown in capite. These were about
;3© in number, and fat in the right of their
property, held in feudal tenure, and not by any
election. As commerce increased, property was
putyhafed, and extended into many hands.
The property of 700 became difleminated a
mong numbers too great to convene and fit in
their own rights ; those who pofiefied the pro
perty <f one great Baron, elected one or more
of theji own number to represent the whole of
the property thus divided, and thence derived
the rightof representation.' The case became
the fame in cities and corporations which held
by capite Tom the Crown. The whole corpo
ration could not come to vote, theyefure tie cor
poration elected its representatives. This proves
how true that aflertion was of Lord Chatham,
That every blade ofgrafi in Great Britain <was re
ferefented. Bt\t not one American blade of grass
was represented in the Britilh Parliament, there
fore it cannot justly be taxed there, and this
Shews the folly and abfordityofthe femuch talked
of virtual representation, and faying that many
thousands in Britain were not represented more
than the Americans. Many English persons
may not indeed, but the whole Englifli landed
property is. Englishmen surely did not lose
their Spirit as well as their rights by crossing
the Atlantic. No, they did not ; they carried
thither their freeborn Spirit, before it was con
taminated with an influx of Asiatic wealth.
From all this it appears, the war of Britain with
her colonies is unjust; nor is it likely it Should
Succeed under the auspices of that miniGry,
who so unjustly railed it; for we fee twelve
colonies united, who are different in Situation,
different in intcrefts, different in religion, diffe
rent in mariners, different in every thing but
spirit. 'What has been the success of the Bri
tifharms agtinft these people? We have seen
the British navy, the terror of the world, who
used to carry thunder to every part of the globe,
now failing from one little island to another, for
the glorious purpose of pilfering a few cattle.
We have seen the Britilh troops pent up on
Boston Neck; we have seen the minidry plot
ting and purchasing counter addresses, to cover
their disgrace, and fending troops abroad in the
most dangerous season of the year, to encouter
tempers which seem to have been raised bv
Providence, on purpose to prevent more from
imbruing their hands in their brethrens blood.
But if even it was just to fend our troops, and
they were likely to succeed, yet it would be in
expedient; for if we Should join to subdue re
finance, would it not be a precedent against
ourselves, if ever we Should refill against a like
oppression. Had we forefeen, or been acquaint
ed with this measure, and that we ihould have
Saved so much on the military establishment,
before we had voted the Tontine scheme, we
might have Spared 16,000!. but it seems to have
been kept in petto, till all the demanded Sup
plies had been granted.
Captain Trench spoke next against the mea
• sure, and Mr. Prime Serjearefor it.
Mr. Foster said, the only point to be consi
dered was, whether this measure would bring|
on a reconciliation, which he thought it would.
It was clear that the with of America was a to
tal independence, and if we refufe to fend these
troops, we prevent a reconciliation, by hinder
ing Great Britain from enforcing reasonable
terms, which, if properly enforced, the Ame
ricans might agree to. But if we even agree to
fend these troops, we do not thereby condemn
the Americans, we only aflift Great Britain in
IWheat per Bulhel, s. od.l
I/Flour, - -, -19 s. od.'
Brown Bread, -13 s. 6d.
li Weft-India Rum, §s. 6d.;
New-England do. gs. 6d.;
PRICE-CURRENT, in NEW-YORK.
I Mufcovado Sugar, 60s. od.
'Single refin'd do. is. 2d.
Molaifes, - - - 2s. Bd.
Beef, per Barrel, 445. od.
;Pdrk, - - -70 s. od.
her t'me of need. In regard co ^e ri,,p;L„
though they arc voted, the money bil) re rr<
passed, and gentlemen may make such retrench
ments in them as they think nocefCry.
Mr. Chapman said, that he did not expert to
hear such a message after the many aduranccs
of the miniftet, that the 1 2,000 men were com
pletely in this kingdom, and Should remain so
inviolably; and alter the promises of, admini
stration, that , nothing Should be expected from
ois country to America but the address to the
turone. That notwithstanding the Committee
of Supply had resolved 12,000 men to be neces
sary for our defence, and provided for them ac
cordingly, yet, while the very found ofthefe alfu
rances, yet tingle in our eats, the minister for
got himfelf in the mefenger of the crown, not
to bripg to their longing eyes rhe olive branch,
the emblem of much-wiShed for peace, but lie
lays his hand on his sword, and becomes the
harbinger of war. That he congratulated ad
ministration on at length finding out that hither
to invisible deity of their's, jut on closer in
fpeetion, he was forty to discover that deify,
like the god of the Egyptians, plainlyand fim^
ply—-a bull. That if the minister was Serious
when he promised oxonomy, lie ought to leflen
the Supply in proportion to that ceconomy; to
content ririnfelr with fc.ver taxes, and to dimi
nish bis demands. That he called on him to do
so, but he found him Silent on that point; and
CTcrerorc inuft conclude ra real Economy was
in his contemplation. That one year's fiving
was the utmost that was mentioned. That such
reduction w• paltry indeed, contrasted with
the probable lots of 4000 gallant countrymen,
devoted Sacrifice, to appease the fury of an m
cented, and despairing people, in defence of
their rights, confident againiSthe world in arms:
that the rears, or the forlorn widow, the cries of
tne^ Iplefs orphan could not be weighed in
the tyney scale of a minister. That this king
dom would be left exposed to every enemy al*
lured by such profpe&s. That the asking the
consent of parliament was a far;e in politics,
and an undermining of a positive aft of parlia
ment. That it was well known that the crown
always desired the consent of a Dean and Chap
ter to the appointment of an intended biftop,
but it was never yet known that the person no
minated did not succeed to the episcopal dig
nity.
Mr, Huffey Burgh then rose, and introduced
his opinion relative to the quetlicn, with ob~
serving that although he had generally voted on
that fide of the House, which is called oppofyi
on. yet he had set it down as a maxim never
to give his support torn motion which war cal
culated to harrafs the Minifler, and not to
serve the people : That when there was a consi
derable majority evident on the part of gevwu
ment, he thought it bell not to hazard a quidi
on, which there was a certainty of loling ; that
[For ill R^ab^hr fa the lafl Fa,.]
Mr. Conolly urged his farsfor Ireland,
from eftabl ; .Li%a precedent,and mentioned that
the King's Speech, at opening the British Par
liament, declared the fupremac T over all his
dominions. He repeated and enforced what
hadbeen said about a land-tax laid on by Eng
land, and enforced by foreign mercenaries.
He took notice of the intelligence, i hemwrable
gentleman (Mr. Gardner) had de ived of h.d
tile intentions of foreign powers, Itom the Ca
binets of foreign courts. Here Mr.'Gardyer
said the Right Hon. gentleman had miftiken
him ; he had only said Covers not Cabinets.
Mr. Conolly replied he had indeed miftaken,'
but the milhke was easily made, as he knew
no gentleman more fit for a lady's or a Privy
Councellor's cabinet than the honourable gen
tleman.
Mr. Solicitor General said, as the expence to
be incurred was the chief argument used againit
the augmentation, so no gentleman, who voted
then against it, can comiftently c pose the
measure by which ,he expence is taken away.
He begged the firft resolution might be disposed
of, before they entered into the confidehitrom of
the Second ; adding, that if We retried rhe re
quest of the crown, we Should hurt .the Ameri
cans, by misleading them to their ruin.
Mr. James Brown spoke in defence of the
measure.
Fine Salt, - - - None.
Coarse Salt, - - 3s. 9^
Indian Corn, per Buffi.3s. bd.