Gazette of the United-States. — New-York [N.Y.], 1792-02-08 00:00:00, page 2

Continuation of the Debate tn the Petition oj Catha
rine Greene, widow of the late Gen. Greene.
General sumpt-er raid, with refpetft to
the resolution as it now hands, he should
always feel himfelf obliged to oppose it—no
thing that has fallen from the gentleman over
the way (General Wayne) has convinced me that
the measure is proper or just. It was necelikry,
he said, to be cautious in the manner of difcufl
ing a matter of so much delicacy—he did not
rife to make any pointed objections at present
that can in any degree injure the reputation of
the officer whose abilities he refpedted, or to hurt
the feelings of his family or connections. I lup
pofe, said he, that no gentleman will decide in
favor of the resolution without examining the
merits of the cafe : the committee will have that
information which they shall deem to be requi
site on the occasion. lam f»rry to difFer in opi
nion with the gentleman from Georgia, and am
therefore difpol'ed to make lacrifices of my own
feelings of part injuries, and will not fufFer them
to warp or bias my judgment, but will endeavor
to decide in conformity with the opinions of the
people the state of South Carolina, and in parti
cular of the diftri<st which I have the honor to
represent. In going into the investigation of this
matter, I will give my reasons why 1 do not think
the country, although in extreme distress, was
in that deplorable situation which has been re
presented ; neither was its credit reduced folow
but that relief might have been obtained, and
that so small an army might have been accom
modated had a proper application been made in
time to the government. —The gentleman mult
therefore be mistaken in Itating those circum
stances, for if the proper documents be examin
ed, it will appear that the army received very
ample supplies from the fame source, some months
previous to the contract made by Mr. Banks—
which mult have been in November, or early in
December, and previous to the evacuation of
Charleston. Whether it was better to adopt the
means used by Gen. Greene, or those within the
power of the government, 1 shall i»ot pretend to
determine, but I have no doubt but that the go
vernment poflefled both the means and the incli-
The contrail was firft made by Banks in No
vember or December, and Gen. Greene did not
become the guarantee until the April following
—whether there were any reasons for preferring
this mode to that of an application to govern
ment, will perhaps appear in the course of the
investigation.
Mr. Chairman, this contract has been consider
ed to have operated rather as a misfortune, al
though it may have afforded a temporary relief:
it was the occasion of much complaint, vexation
and difltruft, rather than of conciliation : and
th&t difcouten-t ran through the army is with
in wie knowledge of several officers whose names
could be mentioned.
nation.
It is therefore neceflary to bring the matter
into the full view of the committee, and to have
rec«urfe to the files of the public offices, before
we agree to the resolution on the table. At the
fame time it is my sincere wiffi to render jullice
to the family of the deceased in every reasonable
accommodation ; but it does not appear to me
that the family are reduced to that disagreeable
situation which has been represented—The large
grants that have been made by the dates of Geor
gia, North and South-Carolina, are (till in the
pofleflion ofthe heirs ofthe deceased, and 1 have
been informed that a gentleman offered 30,000
dollars for that granted by N. Carolina, so late as
last fumtner—neither have I Iveard that any dis
tress has been levied upon any of these estates, or
that they are so much affedted in reality, but tha:
the claims made againll them are rather of a no
minal and visionary nature.—But admiting that
General Greene was fertility for the United
States, and that the operation had been benefi
cial, (which by the bye I deny) does it appear
that executions have been levied to any consider
able amount, or to such an extent as to iuftify
the present application ?_To me it does not ap
pear this has been the cafe, neither do 1 believe
that the estate has been reduced in the manner
represented ; and whilst I fay it, I honestly and
unceieJy hope it ; under which impreflion I can
never accede to the resolution on the table
Mr. Wadfworth—The gentleman lalt up has
saul many things to me utterly unintelligible
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
TUESDAY, January 10, 1792-
PHILADELPHIA
CONGRESS.
and others which diredtly militate with what I
lias been said by the gentleman from Georgia— '
He has, however, declared that no real or sup
posed perfotia! injury (hall influence him in giv
ing his opinion or vote—l hope, fir, he will not
now feel or resent those real or supposed inju
ries Ido believe they are not real—and from
my long and intimate acquaintance with Gen.
Greene, 1 had good opportunity to know him—
a better man I never did know—that he had e
nemies is not to be wondered at—the nature of
his command to the southward was important,cri
tical and difficult, and he might be constrained
to do things that neceflity only would joftify—
if he has injured any man he has attoned for it
neither the tougue or pen of malice have been
able to affix a ltigma on his charadier—lf I ever
knew a man whose heart was pure and without
guile, it was Gen. Greene—yet he had enemies
—no man deserved them so little—more honed
fame is due to no man—and if his fortune is to
be facrificed, and his family beggared, it is a con
folarion that his good name will lall forever.—
Being one of his executors, I know something of
his affairs, but it was with reludlance 1 rose, as
my attachments to him and concern for his fa
mily, render it extremely difficult for me to en
ter on the fubjedi—The gentleman from South-
Carolina has told us he is acquainted with the
affairs of the estates in the Carolinas, and has
told us they are without any executions against
them, the bonds on good credit, and the family
in no danger of poverty, &c.—l can hardly al
low, fir, that he is acquainted with the affairs of
Gen. Greene, even in South-Carolina and Geor
gia—but if he is, I will ask him if he does not
know that all the negroes from the South-Caro
lina estate are fold, and the land totally unpro
ductive—that Mr. Rutledge has prevented exe
cutions from taking the Georgia estate by his
personal interference—that all the estates in
Rhode-Island and New-Jersey are fold and
that the hope of the justice we now ask for, has
delayed the sale of all the reft—to fatisfy his
creditors—his southern creditors !
The proofs and documents alluded to by the
gentleman, (Gen. Sumpter) have been before
Congress for several years, and the friends and
executors of Gen. Greene, have challenged his
enemies in every part of the Union to disprove
them—and I hope no delay will now take place
—the business is fully before Congress—l hope
justice will be done to the widow and orphans
of the late Gen. Greene—and that the investiga
tion -will now be finifhed—his honed fame vin
dicated and eftabliihed—and his family saved
from the ruin that awaits then).
In a hazardous and difficult situation, or in
carrying on war, or even in great politicaj ques
tions, the bell friends may differ in the mode of
conducing the fame ; and it has too frequently
happened, that such difference has tended to les
sen the friendfhip which formerly existed. Upon
the whole, our arms to the southward were
crowned with success: we must presume the
means generally used, were right.
If supplies could have been furnifhed by the
state of South-Carolina, it is a pity they were not
granted. I fay, it is poflible Gen. Greene might
have pursued a different mode to obtain cloathino
and prorrifion. He did not. He was of
no other plans could have been fuccefsfully fol
lowed, but those which were adopted.
The idea of his being a partner with Banks
and Co. seems to be given up bv the opposition.
The mere insinuation of Mr. Banks and some
others, can have no influeuce against such a cloud
of evidence and documents. These for the Ge
neral are so ttrong, that they would work con
viction upon almost the greatefl infidel.
I shall barely advert to a part of them, as men
tioned in the report, and on this head srive a few
observations of my,own.
The application to the legiflarnre of South-
Carolina, in order to create a competition. Had
he been concerned as a partner, or intended to
be io no competition through that channel would
have been proposed. If he was to be a partner,
ad'Zige " "• lnr * 5U, •". "iEI." lh«
Many of the objections have been answered by
gentlemen who were nearer the Scene of a&ion
than myfelf: I shall strive to obviate others.
MONDAY, January 24.
Same Subjefl continued.
Col. Hartley, in support of General Wayne's
motion, observed, I have paid some attention to
the report and the documents referred to in it,
as well as the objections made to the resolutions
under consideration.
The mode of conducting our affairs in South-
Carolina, does not seem to have been agreeable
to the gentleman opposite to me from that state
(Gen. Sunipter) and he expresses his high disap
probation of many parts of it. When 1 disagree
with that gentleman, I do it with great reluctance;
for no one en this floor has a greater refpecft for
him than myfelf.
Tile bond of indemnity so General Greene.
Oaths of Banks and Hunter,
326
Charles C. Pinckney's oath (now Governor of
Sonth-Carolina) and the certificates of the tw o
Chancellors of South-Carolina, who were both
high in the executive, when tliefe tranfaiftions
/hould have happened.
Besides, fir, if we consider how many partners
there were concerned with in the different
transactions ; had General Greene been one of
the Company, it must long since have been ma
nifefted to the world. The secret could not have
been kept nor can we possibly think, that Gen.
Greene (who was undoubtedly a man of nnder-
Itanding) would have exprefled himfelf in the
manner he has done, in the close of his letter
from Newport, dated the 24th of August, 1785
had he been a partner. He fays there, " Thus
have I given your Excellency a short narration of
the origin and situation of this matter, and have
only to add on this fubjedt, that I never held any
commercial connexion with the company, other
than what concerned the public, either diretflly
or indiredtly, or ever received onefarthingprofit
or, emolument, or the promise of any one from
them ; and my bond of indemnity expressly de
clares that I have 110 interest, connexion or con
cern in the debts for which I became bound, all
which I am willing to verify on oath."
As to the second, public good inuft have been
his principal object. The contracts before made
would not have been carried into execution,
without the aid of the contract, for which the in
demnity was made in April 1783. A great manv
articles were absolutely neceflary to the army—
they were connected with others—the neceflaries
could not at that critical period, or for the mo
ment, be obtained else where. The merchants,as
I understand, infilled upon two conditions before
they would deliver the goods—ift, that all (he
goods should go together—2d, that the command
ing officer should become security.
There was a necessity for an additional capital,
Co furnifh the means for supporting the army;
and as mod of the goods were ufeful and neces
sary, the residue might be disposed of to the bed
advantage, and the money arising from them be
applied towards payment of the debt*-
Public necessity and the (late of things would
oblige the General to agree to the firft condition.
The compliance with the second condition be
came a neceflary consequence.
The General's letter from Newport, and Gen.
Wayne's oath, Nathaniel Pendleton's oath, and
other evidence, prove the situation of the army.
As to the third point, should nor his eflate be
indemnified ?—Through his zeal for the public
good, he has unfortunately involved hiseftatem
difficulty, whatever the conduct of the company
might be. The creditors were not to be ?ffected
either by the fraud or failure of Banks and the
purchasers. General Greene was liable.
The General, when he hears of mifc«ndoct,
does all he can Co save and indemnify himfel'*
and through him the United States fecuriti'j
were taken in as ample a manner as they com
be obtained from the delinquents ; and Genera
Greene never wished to call upon the public,
until every other means failed. So late as t
year 1785 he had dill hopes there would be no
loss, but then he found the danger ; a fenff 0
duty obliged him to come forward to save hiw
felf and family, to ask the protection of thep"
lie, to indemnify him from a debt that he '
contracted to save an army from mutiny and >
banding ; to protect a country which other"" e
would have been exposed. Many exertions ij>
he to make to feed the hungry and co*c 1 ®
naked : were not these for the public good, a"
(hall his private property fuffer ? Shall his
ly be reduced to beggary, be ltiipped of t 61
Could he pledge his honor, his reputation, had
he been guilty of an untruth ? No, it is impotfi
ble ! nature cannot credit it. He would have
been silent had he been a culprit, and not have
challenged the world, as the power of detection
would have laid with so many, and the (haft of
envy always ready—l hope every man tnuft be
fatisfied that the General was no partner.
I ft. Did the Genera! enter into these engage
ments out of personal regard to individuals, with
out a view to the public interest?
The great points of contest before the commit
tee seem now to be, v
2dly. Was not the good of the public his prin
cipal object ?
Under all circumstances, (hould riot his
eftatebe indemnified ?
As to the firtt, I cannot think that the General,
out of mere personal regard to individuals, with
out a view to the public good, would have been
bail. He had been elteemed a man of prudence,
and was not a person of large fortune. How
would he embarrass his family and property in
such engagements? Who, under mere motives
of friendship, would have done so ? The sum was
too large—he had no interest. He got no goods
or money for himfelf. He might have had a fa
vorable opinion of some of the company, bat his
relponfibility was become neceflary with a view
to the public good.
Certificate from Major Forfytb.
Natbahiel Pendleton's oath.