The royal gazette — [Charleston] S.C., 1781-09-19 00:00:00, page 4

Parliamentary Proceedings.
House of Commons, Ma, 23, 1781.
[East-India Company's Affairs.]
GENERAL SMITH desired that the title of the report of the
Committee, to whom the petitioners of John Touchet, and
James Irving, Esquires, agents to 2000 inhabitants of the Province
of Bengal, and two other petitions relative to the jarifdi&ion of the
Supreme Court of judicature in Bengal, had been referred for con
sideration and enquiry, might be read, together with an extract of
the faid.report; which having been complied with, the General rose
and said, the complaints that had been made relative to the jurisdic
tion of the Supreme Court of Judicature in Bengal, were matters to
which that House were by no means strangers, and he believed it was
generally admitted that whert the Ad, establishing the Supreme
Court, passed, fegtn years ago, it was not the intention of the Legi
slature to extend the jurifdiCtioA to the natives of India; that such a
pra&ice had obtained was too well substantiated a fad to be disputed ;
And that it had been exercised in a variety of cases, to the great op
pression of the natives, almofl every page of the report then upon
the table would teftify. The instances of persecution and cruelty
that had already occurred, added to the Rate of warfare again Leach
other, in whch the supreme Court of Judicature and the Governour
General and Council were at present engaged, called loudly for the
interposition of the Britilh Parliament. The disorders that raged in
India, afofe froln this circumstance; the Supreme Court of Judica
ture, had not only exercised their jurifdidion over the natives, con
trary to the intention of the Legislature of Great Britain, but, by a
forced conftrudibn of the Aft of Parliament, had taken upon them
selves to interfere with the territorial acquisitions, and to pronounce
upon the right undef which they were held. The Governour General
and Council tlunking that every matter that had any relation to the
dominion, and the government of the country, was cognizable by
them only, were alarmed at such a power's being assumed by the
Supreme Court of Judicature; and the consequence was, when the
Supreme Court ordered certain dillrids of territory to be ceded, the
Governour General and Council g< ve orders of a,contrary tendency,
and levied war against the jurifdi&on of the Supreme Court, in or
der to enforce tne execution of their own order,, and to refill the
execution of the orders of the Supreme Court. The House could
easily fee the fatal and extensive feene of anarchy and confufion, that
filch a circumstance must necessarily be followed with; they would,
therefore, he trailed, ' join heartily in some measures to put an end to
the mifehiefs to which he had alluded, and restore peace, order and
good Gover ~ ent to the Provinces of Bengal, Bahar, and Oiida. It
had been his wish, the General said, to have nioved for leave to bring
in a Bill, to repeal the A& of 1773, because it wds clear, that the
mifchiels that now prevailed in India, originated in that statute:
finding however, that such a mcafure was not likely to be given way
to, since he could not do as much good as he wiihed, he muff content
himfelf with doing so much good only as he found he should be per
mitted to do; and, therefore, instead of moving for leave to bring
in a Bill, to repeal that statute, he should move for leave to bring in a
Bill to explain and amend it.. After a few more observations, the Ge
neral concluded with moving;
" That leave be given to bring in a." Bill to explain and amend so
" much of an Aft passed in the 13th year of his Majefly's reign, en
" titled, '' an Aft for establishing certain regulations for the better
" management of the affairs of the Haft-India Company, as well in
" India as in Europe," as relates to the administration of justice in
" Bengal, and for the relief of certain persons imprisoned at Cal
" cutta, in Bengal, under a judgment of the Supreme Court of Judi.
" cature——alfo fur indemnifying the Governour General, and
" Council of Bengal, and all Officers, who have aded under their
" orders or authority, in the refinance made 'to the process of the
" Supreme Court."
Sir Richard Sutton said he rose, not with any intention to oppose
the motion, but merely to fay a few words in defence of the Judges
of the Supreme Court, whose condud had been quellioned by impli
cation, although no proof had been brought of their having exceed
ed the powers vested in them by the Aft of Parliament, in any one
inßance. Sir Richard, after this remark, went ihto an examination
of the confutation of the Supreme Court of Judicature, and the na
ture of its jurifdiaion. He Ihewed, that no person, a native of India,
was,neceffarily obliged to try his cause in that court, but that by the
express words of the Aft of Parliament, a plaintiff who brought his
fait bef>re the Supreme Court, having his option, whether he would
have it tried in that Court, or any one of the country Courts, neces
sarily proved, that the difgull stated to have prevailed in India against
the jurifdi&ion, was not so general as Gentlemen had been induced
to imagine. On the contrary, it was evident, that in every cause
tr \l by that Court, at lead one of the parties preferred the jurif
di lion to any other. Sir Richard made a few general remarks on
other points, and then fat down.
AL. Boughton Rons mide a short reply, and General Smith just said;
that all the faffs dated by him were not mere aftertions, but were,
matters well ellablifhcd, as gentlemen would find, if they read the
report, fromwhich, every thing that he had said, originated,
The motion was carried.
[Claim of the Public upon the East India Company.]
Lord North moved, that the order of the day, for the House to
resolve itfelf into a Committee of the whole House, might be read.
This motion being put and carried, his Lordihip moved that all
the papers relative to the proceedings of the General Court in refped
to the renewal of their Charter, then on the table, be referred to
tlie consideration of the Committee, and tliat the Speaker leave the
chair.
Mr. Ord having taken his feat at the table,
Lord North said, it had been very much his wish, that an agree
ment for the renewal of the Company's Charter, for longer veiling
the exclusive trade to India, in the Company, together with the
power of receiving the revenue arising from the territorial acquisi
tions in India, upon reasonable terms, and amicably fettled, Would
have beert brought before the House by petition, and that they would
have had to debate it on those grounds. The business, he was sorry
to fay, came before the Committee in a very different shape, no Pe
titions having been sent from the Company, nor any agreement
made; a negotiation had indeed taken place between him and the
chairman, and deputy chairman, but the proportions made oh the
part of the Company, were not altogether such, as he for one consi
dered to be reasonable, or of that nature which the Public had a right
to expe&, and which Parliament ought to accede to. The proposi
tions were upon the table; he should therefore save himfelf the trou
ble of going into a detail of them a. large. To some of them, as an
individual, he was ready to agree; to others he must totally difagrec,
and he would explain to the Committee his reasons for so doing. The
Chairman and Deputy Chairman, in their conversations with him
minuted down his sentiments, in order to Rate them to the General
Court, and it appeared, that they had come to dertain propositions,
which were to go to a ballot, the next day ; but as he saw among
them one, which he never Would accede to, and which the Legifo
ture, in his opinion, ought never to admit, he thought it right, pre
vious to the ballot's being held, to submit his reasons against that pro
position to the Committee, and to move a refoliation upon it, which (if
the Committee agreed with him in its propriety) would at once con
vince the Company, what the opinion of the Public was, upon a
point in which their interest was very deeply involved. The firft
matter adjsifted by him ort the part of the Public was, to agree to
grant a renewal of the Company's Charter, without the Company's
paying any fine for the fame, and this he agreed to, because he
thought the Public, under the present circumstances of the Compa
ny, ought to renew it without expecting a great deal of money as
the price of it. The proposition which the Company meant among
others, to ballot for, and which he wholly disapproved, was the fol
lowing.
" That all the Haft-India. Company's present charter rights and
" privileges {hall be preferred to them, entire, so far as is consist
" ent with the rights of the Crown; that their exclusive to trade be
" prolonged for the term of ten years, to be reckoned from theist
" day of March 1781, besides the three years notice to be given,
" according to the a& of 17th George the Second; and that in order
" to the utmost of their power to alleviate (as far ^s the Company's
" ability would reach) the public burthen, the Directors arc em
" powered to pay into his Majesty's Exchequer any sum not excetd
"ing 600,0001. on condition of receiving in return, bills on his Ma
" jetty's Exchequer, which in case of any unexpected exigencies on
" the part of the Company, the Commissioners of the Customs and
" Excise should receive as cash, for payment of the Company's ac
" cruing duties; such bills not to bear interest, or to be brought to
" market like other bills."
This proposition was liable to various objections, but he made no
scruple to fay that his main objection to it was, it virtually put an
end to the claim of the Public to the territorial acquisitions of the
Company, by affirming that no money was due to die public from
the Company, and by offering to lend the public upon Exchequer
bills that very 600,0001. which he had been of opinion, and which
he Rill was of opinion, the Public had an indisputable right to, on
the authority of two resolutions, come to by the House of Commons
on the 23d of April 1773, in which resolutions it was exprefly decla
red to be the sense of the House, that the Public had a right to three
fourths of the surplus of the profits of the Company, after the Com
pany had divided 3 per cent, on their capital Rock. With regard to
tlie territorial acquisitions, his Lordihip said, he entertained not the
finalleft doubt, and indeed men much more accustomed to confider
points of law, than he Was, were clearly of opinion, that the Public
had a right to all territorial acquisitions made by private fubje&s;
how far it might be proper to let the revenue of these territorial ac
quisitions remain in the receipt of the Company was altogether ano
ther question. He undoubtedly thought it would be wife to leave
the revenue in their hands as long as the exclusive trade was held by
them, because the one was materially blended and connected with the
other, but as to foregoing the claim of the Public, that he never
should. In wording the proposition which he had just read, he ob
served the Company used the words " as far as is confident with the
rights of the Crown;" and had left out the words " and Legislature;''
to this he had no manner of obje&icm, because undoubtedly the rights
of the Crown implied the rights of the people, the Crown in that
sense meaning merely the executive branch of Government. That
part of the proposition, for which the CompaMy offered to lend the
Public 600,0001. was a tender, which it was impollible to accept, and
that fur various realons. Even if the Company, as private indivi
duals, had offered to lend money upon those conditions, the offer
could not be accepted; for, (exclusive of the offer to lend the money
implying, that it was not the right of the Public to claim it,) the
terms of it were' such as put it out of the power of the Public, were
the public exigencies ever so great, and had they no claim whatever
upon the Company, to receive the loan. The condition was, that
the Company should, on payment of 600,000!. into the Exchequer,
receive in return, bills on the Exchequer, which the Commissioners
of the Excise and Cußoms were to receive as cash, whenever the
Company was distressed. This would be neither more nor less, than
putting his Majeßy's Exchequer into the power of the East India
Company. Exchequer bills never were of the nature stated to be
granted to the Company in this proposition, but always were drawn,
for a time certain, to run generally a year^under the idea, that be
fore they came due, Parliament would fit, and provide for the pay
ment, against the day of payment arrived. If such Bills as the Com
pany requeued in their proposition, were iffiied, viz. Bills payable on
demand, and which might be sent in all at once, just when the Com
pany thought proper, it would be in their power greatly to embarrass
the public treasury, for although in the consideration of so large an ex
penditure, as (unfortunately for this country) our yearly expences at
present amounted to, fix hundred thousand pounds was but a small sum;
yet as the Company would have it in their power to pay them in, when
they liked it, it might so happen, that they might all be paid at the
Cullom House and Excise Office in one week, and by Saturday they
would naturally find their way to the Exchequer. The consequence
of this would be, that 600,0001. coming upon the Exchequer all at
once, it might happen just at the time when money had been sent in
to pay his Majesty's fleets and armies, and, thus the public service
would be flopped as well as the public creditor injured. For this
reason, his Lordship declared, he never would accede to the propo
sition, even had if come forwards under different circumstances, and
had the Public had no claim upon the Company. A claim they un
doubtedly liad, and in order to assert it, he meant to move it as a re
folutiom But Gentlemen said, " why assert the claim now ; rhe
Company's affairs abroad are in great uncertainty, great cohfu
fion, their cafli is low, their debts large? Many Bills will be drawn
upon them, don't do it in the hour of their diftreh!" In answer to
this, he must once for all declare, that he thought the interest of the
India Company, and the interest of the Public, one and the fame
thing. The welfare and prosperity of the Company, and the pre
servation of the territorial acquisitions, in India were objeds of great
national concern; whenever the Company should be distressed, and
should Hand in need of assistance, the Public must give it. Should
the Company's cafli fail them, and they should want money for real
public uses, (and when he said, this, he begged to be underflood, as
alluding to a public neceility only,) in that case the House ought to
vote money equal to the necessity of the Company, let that necessity
be what it might. He should hold it as his duty, as long as the re
sources of this country were such as would by any means affordit,
whenever the India Company was really in distress, to move thatjt
be immediately assisted, let the sum wanted be one hundred thou
sand pounds, live hundred thousand, a million, or whatever it would.
But feeling as he did, with regard to the mutual interest of the
Company and the Public, he was nevertheless convinced that th : s
was the proper time to make an agreement with the Company for
the renewal of their Charter, and to cftablilli the claim of the Public
for the 600,00015. by infilling on the payment of that sum, and that
for these reasons: The common interest of the Public and the Com
pany rendered it highly necessary that the Company should hold over
no longer by yearly bills, but that their affairs should be put upon a
flable footing, by an agreement for a length of time. Such an agree
ment was much wanted, and would have a great and good effect on
their affairs in India, in the prosperity of which, as he had before'
Rated, the Public were materially inter^hed; and therefore, whe
ther the Company were willing or not, it behoved the Public to take
care ofthemfelves; and since two years had elapsed without the Com
pany's petitioning that House for a renewal of their Charter, it be
came the duty of Government to interfere on behalf of the Public, and
to have the matter fettled. Besides this, the money had been now due
to the Public ever since the year 1778; and it was very clear from the
refinance made to the claim, that tlie longer the urging the claim was
delayed, the more Rrenuoufly the payment of the money would be
refilled, and the more firmly the claim itfelf would be disputed.
The claim was a fair one, and the Public had a right to the money.
Besides, the very arguments advanced against it, told in his mind the
other way; for they Were, that the money ought to lay in the Com
pany's treasury for the purpose of answering the Bills that were ex
pe&ed from India, and hi order that they might be able to divide
8 per cent, when their profits might not otherwise enable them to do
so; neither of these matters, his Lordship said, were fair objects for
the application of the money, for it was that overflow of the Bills
from India that had nearly ruined the Company in 1773. when the
Legislature, against the will of the Company, and notwithstanding
the petition sent to that House against it; passed a Bid, authorifing a
loan from the Public to the Company, and putting the Company's
affairs under certain regulations and reftriblions, in consequence of
which their credit had been restored, and their affairs had taken a
moR prosperous and flourifhing turn. With regard to future divi
dends, they were totally out of the question; the Public's claim hav
ing arisen in consequence of the'dividends of 8 per cent, already made,
every year since the Company's bond debt had been reduced to one
million, five hundred thousand pounds. Nor was his Lordship wil
ling to admit that either of these were the fit objects for that House
ever to talce up, as grounds to proceed upon, and vote assistance to the
Company. After arguing the claim of the Public very Rrenuoufly and
very clearly, on a great variety of grounds, his Lordship nioved, that
the two resolutions come to by the House of Commons on the 23d
of April 1773, might be read, as likewise the titles of the aft of 1774,
and of the two yearly ads of 1779 and 1780, which having been
done, he moved a resolution to the following purport,
" That it is the opinion of fr his Committee, that three-fourths of
the surplus of the net profits of the EaR-India Company, ever since
the Company's Bond debt was reduced to one million five hundred
thousand pounds, and the Company's dividendshave been 8 per cen
tum per atnum, belonged to the Public, and that fix hundred thor
fand pounds in lieu thereof, and in difeharge of all claims on the part
of the public, be paid into his Majeßy's Exchequer by installments,
in such manner, and at such times, as shall be agreed on."
Mr. Huff, rose to Oppose this motion. He r probated the ita
of taking 600,c001, of the Company under its present circumstances,
and assigned a variety of reasons for preferring the loan tendered by
the Company. He produced and read to the Committee
that he had made at the India House,, in the hft Court,,.
somewhat finularto that obje&ed to thatby the noble Lord b "
the. Court had not thought it right to adopt. He afterwa',"'''
duced a paper full of arithmetical calculations which he read l " o ''
House, and stated to be correct computations of the amount 1
Company's exports and imports, the expences of their trade ath the
and the balance of profit of each year, from many years DlO™''
tinguilhing the commercial from the territorial expences '^'
comes. From these computations and Ratements, Mr. Huff™™
tended, that eight per cent, had been the commercial dividend '
Company for the last twenty years. Having gone through the t,
[which we do not attempt to fellow him in, for fear of error l
mistake of a single figure would throw the whole into conf'V•
Mr Huffey added various arguments in answer to Lord N
speech, in the course of which he observed, that the 11'
Lord, had not taken the least notice of the Rate of the '
pany's afiairs abroad, and the consequent influx of Bills 1
would necessary come shortly upon the Company's treasury ''
regard to what the noble Lord had said, refpe&ing the & c h'" 1
Bills, it was all ad captandum ; the noble Lord well knew
Directors of the Eafl-India Company would never fuffer the E-h
quer Bills to be paid in without giving Government timely nos"
With regard to the right of the public, perhaps ic was better not"'
urge it at present, as it had been thought better not to urge it r°
therto. Mr. Huffey said, his opinion was well known to 'be th'"-
That the Company ?muld always make it a rule to give as ample
full relief to the public burthens, as their situation would allow - A
if they did this, he saw no reason why the noble Lord should exn ft
more; and thus by the strong hand of power, force from them wh
they did not themselves think they could, under their prefe'nt'c"
cumßances, spare, or afford. He also said, that the Public had'
ceived a very large fliare of the Company's profits, equal to 4I
per centum on their capital, while the Rock-holders scarcely had
ceived 4s. 6d. per centum upon it.
The Secretary at War supported the motion, and said he was con
vinced of the propriety of the Committee coming to such a iefo ; n"
tion, previous to the General Court proceeding to ballot for a pro
position, which on the very face of it, not only denied the claim
the public. [Mr. Burke said across the House, “as made by Lord
North."] but in the very words of it, tendered a loan of the monev
upon terms, which as the noble Lord had clearly and very proper];
explained to the Committee, could not be acceded to. That
undoubtedly implied an opinion on the part of the Company, that
the money was their own, and did not belong of right to the Public
if therefore the Public agreed to that proposition, they adopted the
opinion of the Company and forewent their claim altogether be
cause they would be ihut out for the future from ever making {
Mr. Secretary turned to the wording of the A& of 1774, and of the
yearly bill which exprefly Rated, that the Public only suspended their
claims as to the territorial acquisitions, and the revenue resulting
therefrom for a time, thinking it wiser to let the Company hold
them for commercial purposes, meaning to. participate in the profits
of the various objects of trade, &c. carried on by the Company. Mr
Secretary added various other arguments in amplification of those
used by Lord North, in support of the claim of the Public and of
the motion.
Mr. Demforwarned the Committee how they proceeded in a mat.
ter that went to affedl the chartered rights of the Company, and re
minded them of the consequence of violating the charter of Maffi.
chufett's Bay and various others. He Rated, that to tear from the
Company by force what was not Ripulated for in any A& of Parlia
rnent, would be a breach of public faith, that would disgrace them
tion, and damp the spirit of enterprize and adventure, which had
been produ&ive of such happy effeds. It was to that spirit that we
owed the territorial acquisitions of the India Company, and all the
immense benefits that had accrued to the revenue of this country in
consequence thereof. He reprobated the pofiticiis laid down by Lord
North, in regard to tlie Exchequer bills, and fam, the Dire&ors never
would be guilty of such an acl of injustice, as to fuffer those bills to
come upon the Public unawares and of a sudden. The matter mi^ht
be fettled upon better terms between the noble Lord in the blue nb
bon'and the Court of Directors. Mr. Dempßcr used various ar^u
ments to prove that the Company had carried conquest ov^r a great
part of India on the supposed good faith of the Public: they ! new
they were ailing under the authority of charters, and they took it
for granted that their chartered rights would be held sacred.
[Tore continued.]
By His r ExcELLENcr
Sir H.ENRY CLINTON, K. B.
General and Commander in Chief of all His Majeftfs Forces
cajitbin the Colonies lying on the Atlantic Ocean, from Nova-
Scotia to Weft- Florida, inclafce, Wc. tfc. &c.
PROCLAMATION.
# 4h -'3 AVING Reason to believe, that there are
many Persons refilling among the Rebels, as
a ''° Numbers serving in the Rebel Army
r t and Militia, who are with-held from joining
}their Countrymen and Friends, now serving
,"CTO"n his Majesty in the different Provincial Regi
ments, from an Appiehenfion, that they
must not only Inlift for Life, but perhaps not be allowed to
make Choice of the Provincial Regiment, to which particular
Connections may naturally incline them:
I think proper to give Notice to all Persons who shall en
gage to serve Ilis Majesty for three Years, or during the Rebel
lion, in any Provincial Regiment they may make Choice of,
within ninety Days from the Date hereof, that they shall re
ceive on their Inhltment the Sum of SIX GUINEAS ; and at
the Time of their Discharge, they shall be entitled to the
Grant of Land His Majesty has been gracioufty pleased to pro
mise to the Soldiers of the Provincial Regiments.
GIFEN under my Hand, at Head-Quarters, in
New-Turk, the twentieth Day of Au^uft, 1781.
H. °CLI 'NT ON.
By His Excellency's Command,
John Smith.
JOHN JOHNSON, at No. 86, Broad-Street, has an As-
J fortment of IRISH LINENS, which he will fell on very
seasonable Terms.
11RASTERS of veflels, and inhabitants of the town, may
IVJL be supplied with BEER, at a reasonable price, at the
Brewery of Charleftown. [fa.
WANTS A PLACE,
A YOUNG MAN that lately arrived from Dublin, that
can dress hair in the newef t and most faihionabie man
net, can aft as a Gentleman's one-man and butler, or attend
a single gentleman, as he lived in those capacities in the suit
families in Ireland. Any Gentleman in want of such a person,
may apply to the Printers hereof, and will be duly attend
ed to.
RUN away from the subscriber, about five weeks ago'
a Negro Man named Champaign or Sam, well known in
Charleftown, being formerly the property of Mrs. Janet Cummin;
is a likely, well made fellow, about thirty years of age, fj eaks good
Englilh, and as artful and sensible as any of Iris colour. 1 win give
THREE GUINEAS reward for his being delivered to the Warden
of the Sugar-House, or to myfelf at No 84, Church-Preet, and/or
the information of his being harboured by a black; and TEN GUI
NEAS if harboured by a white man or woman, or if carried oil tne
Province by any mailer of a vtffil or other perlon, to be paid upon
proof and conviction, being determined to put ;h force the laws re.-
peltinglnch atrocious offenders.,
Imcohfideration of his past faithful services, I wd! pardon him me
second time for this crime, if he returns to ins d 'ey inurejia r ei^
Cbuthfuiun, 29th Augi)yl7%l. I l/hid CAi t.