The royal gazette — [Charleston] S.C., 1782-06-22 00:00:00, page 4

Was, the want of mere card In the fate of, what was termed old
stores. It was the custom when an enemy's ship was brought in, to
value the hull, masts, and yards to the King, and then to unrigg her
entirely, and take out all her (lores, which were fold by publick file,
the ropes and cables being firft cut to pieces, to prevent their being
bought for the use of the enemy, and fold as old junk. I his practice
Tas attended with ulineceffary loss and very great inconvenience, and
that of more than one fort. He particularly mentioned that he saw
the Gibraltar, when (he was firft brought in. I hat her rigging was
almost new, and.that her cables had never Icarcely been in tlie water.
He observed at the fame time, that foreign cables being made at a
greater expence, were generally better than ours, and yet, under
these circumstances, the Gibraltar was flripped of her rigging, and
entirely new rigged at the expence of the publick, and her excellent
cables cut into junk, and fold to a parcel of people, who formed a
combination together, and always attended these files, and were f"re
to be the buyers, and that almost at their own price. By means of
this combination the publick were considerable losers; as an indance
of this, he said he remembered a prize being fold at one of these auc
tions for ycol. to this combination, and to his knowledge the buyers
put it up again to sale among themselves the fame day, when it
fetched more than double the purchase money, and the Overplus
was shared among them. The Navy Board ought to buy the stores
of every prize, &c. on the publick account. He likewise mentioned
the Thips being fuffcred to hand so long in their frames, till their
timbers were quite perished, which certainly was not only a great
delay to the increase of the navy, but a great wade.of the publick
money. ~ .. ,
Lord Mul^rave paid Mr, Holdfwofth a compliment for his candia
manner in fluting his fa6ls. In regard to foipwrights, his Lordship
said, every possible encouragement was held out to them to continue
in the King's yards, and with such effecfl, that the number at prcient
employed was as large as ever, though the merchants paid a better
price, and used every means to seduce them. Chips was one of the
indulgencies which served to retain them; another was tlie certainty
of an edablifhment, and their being fare of a provision in their bld
age. As to the sales, they were all advertised publickly, and he had
never heard of any combination. If there were any collusive practices
in those sales, that mud rest altogether with the Commifhoner of
each yard where the sales were held. But if any connivance to de
fraud the publick could be proved, the perlon however elevated,
ought to be made a publick example. As to the rigging and dopes,
they were always purchased for the ^ublick- use : nay the Navy Board
were in many causes too arbitrary in that particular, for they often
fixed their own price upon dores, &c. on board of prizes, and would
have them, although they would have fetchedmore at market. It was
impossible to employ common carpenters in the King's yards, were it
even truethatthey could give considerable abidance. (Government had
used every possible meansto get hands, but the shipwrights in general
would not fuffer any to work with them. Set such aswere regularly bred
to the business. Ha remembered an indance of a man's being engaged
at one of the yards, who had not been regularly bred, and if he had not
been taken out again his lifewonld have been in danger. If the attempt
Was made now all thefhipwiights Would ftrifte, and the pubtick would
be worse off then before, A custom had been lately adopted to keep up
the number of shipwrights, by giving the olded and heft workmen ap
prentices. Certainly the bill proposed by his honourable friend,
would answer a good purpose, for If the Lipwrights in merchants
yards were obliged to take apprentices, it would ensure a fufficient
number for all the exigencies of this country.
Mr. Huffey said the Admiralty had betrayed their trust; they had
been entrusted with money fufficient to have built an entire new
navy, as large as the present, since the war began; and yet we had
only ninety,one ships of the line, and CQuldonly have ten new ones
in rhe course of this year, aqd three of these were the gift of the
India Company. A Commifhoner of the Admiralty had said ships
did not grow up like muftirooms? it was true, but the Admiralty
ought to have been aware of that seven years ago ; had they been so,
our navy would have been much larger now. It was abfiird to fay
they could not get ships built fafter; they might have got more ship
wrights by rewards, and by exciting emulation and industry among
the workmen. We could not cope with the navy of Bourbon, and
yet last year we had wantonly engaged in another war with a mari
time power. How were we to manage with that enemy ? He had
beard there were thirty men of war in the Texel, he did not fay
they were all ships of the line, together with 100 merchant ships all
armed, with a Lieutenant on board each, and this fleet it was said
were determined to tight their way down the Channel. What force
had we ready to oppose so formidable a fleet? After mentioning this,
he took notice of the very different exertions of France; he said,
there was now a gentleman in London, who had lately been at Bred,
and having become acquainted with several persons there, had said
to one of them belonging to the doclc-yard, " I suppose, 1 must not
aft to fee the dockyard; that's a favour, zubicb, I conceive, zcould be de
wed me, if I did afe it? —The answer he received was; —Tou arc mif
taben ; you may fee it and welcome; left war we would nor foffir an,
Granger to fee it, because we zuere afrzmed to expose our poverty. The case
is reversed now, and we dare boaflof the alteration, and few the condition
of our yards, to all aebo wife to fee them. Ihe gentleman, lie said,
walked round the yard with his friend, and in a large piece of water,
he saw a 74 gnn ship afloat. His friend said to him, " You' 11 farce
think it credible, but Ido afure you, that NINETY-FIVE days are, the
keel of that Jbip was not laid." Mr. Hnffey declared, he could scarcely
credit the fad, but he was certain that the man of the dock yard
told the gentleman so, and the latter would have conferred to come
to the bar and proved it, had he not thought he should have made
himfelf enemies by so doing. But, added he, the French officers,
taken by Admiral Kempenfelt, all agree in the fa&.
Colonel Barre said, as the three fliips given by the India Company
Were part of the ten, how came it that there was an entry of thirty
thousand pounds in the climates for rigging, &c. for those ships.
Mr, Huffe, rofc again, and explained the matter, by reading
a letter he had received from the India House, whence it appeared
that the three fliips cost the Company 103,000!. and that they pre
sented them hulls, masts amfyards to Government; so that, in fa&,
the publick paid for rigging them, and their (lores, &c.
Lord Lifeurne informed Colonel Barre, that 9000 1. appeared
charged fpecifically, as the expence of (lores, &c. for one of these
ships. How the rest of the sum was made out, he could not then
fay, but he would take care to make himfelf matter of it by the
next day, and would come prepared to give the House very full fatif
fa&ion rcfpe6ling it, when the report was brought up.
Colonel Barre said, he meant not to censure the noble lord who
spoke lately, but he could not help remarking, how frequently the
House heard the fame fort of excuses from the Members of the Board
of Admiralty, and his very good friends, the Members of that ex
cellent Board, the Board of Ordnance. Now the noble lord had
said, —" Really I don't know the matter now, but I'll come prepared to
•norrow to speak to ,'/.'’——Another noble lord had said, — -If the Juli
"was so, I never beard of it, —it might be true, but it never reached my
ears—ob, as to that, that belongs to the Navy Board, —and that refs en
tirely with the Commiffoners of the Dock-yards. — 1 liefe fort of excuses
the Colonel ridiculed as trifling in themselves, indecent to the House,
and unbecoming the Boards in question. Having made this begin
ning, he went on to Rate the comparative strength, &c. &:c. of the
navy now, and the navy daft war. In malting out an account upon
paper, he said, the Admiralty always took in every moving indivi
dual thing, from a man of war down to a cock-boat; so that their
account, though numerous, and apparently iniportant, pima facie,
when examined, would be found to be deceptive and trifling. He
made it appear that the navy was considerably larger last war than
it was this; and observed, that mod of the ships now dated to be
building, were those lately contracted for, the keels of which were
Scarcely laid yet, and which would not be fit for service sooner than
the year 1785. The Colonel said a great deal more with his tifual
ability. He asked if the Admiralty Board would consent that Sir
Charles Middleton, Comptroller of the Navy ffiould be called to the
bar to give the House information relative to a real date of the navy;
if they would consent to fuffer so refpe&able and intelligent a gentle
man to be examined, he was sure the House would be put into the
possession of faas.. Should the Admiralty Board condefc^d to grant
this favour, he should be content, and he hoped no gentleman would
take the fcnfe of the Committee on the prelent eflimates.
Lord Howe rose and said, he considered that Committee, to all in
tents and purposes, as the Committee of Thursday last coprinued.
They were fitting exactly on the fame bufineis,—an examination into
the mifmansgercril of the navy. He mould therefore speak to that,
and in doing so, he (ho<ld confirm himfelf to remarks on the conduct
of the firft Lord Comnrfflioner, the Earl of Sandwich, who alone
was refponfibte for the management of the Navy. The other mem
bers of that Board, though, doubtless, very refpe&able characters,
ought not at all to be taken into the confederation, it being notorious,
that of the 150 Lieutenants made every year, no one of them had
power enough to appoint a fiugle Lieutenant. After this exordium
his Lordfllip made a number of very judicious remarks upon the na
ture qf fhipbuildirfg, the encouragement of shipwrights, and the
other topicks that had come under discussion that day. He said he
did not believe the dory cited by an honourable member that a 74 gun
rilip had been built in Brest yard in 95 days. It did not appear to
him -possible, and he imputed the allcrtion purely to the known live
liness and volatile spirit that characterized the French as a people,
and induced them to please their own vanity, by endeavouring to
aflonifh Grangers with extravagant ideas of their national exertion
and excellence. Ships, his Lordship said, might be too long in build
ing, and they might also be built too quick. An honourable gentle
man, a Commiflioner of the Admiralty, had said, that ships did not
grow out of mushrooms; he, and the honourable gentleman, who
had taken notice of the expreflion, knew, that the reverie of the
portion was true, and that mushrooms sometimes grew out of ships;
this could perhaps be proved from instances now exiting in the Royal
Dock-yards. Every body knew that ships huffily conftru&ed, nev^r
laded so long, nor did so much service as those that were longer in
building. 'Ehe reason was obviour, the timber required seasoning,
and might be buffered to continue uncovered too short a time, as well
as too long. It depended altogether on the judiciously hitting the
fit time to cover in the ribs. If they flood a wet feaion, they ought
to remain uncovered till they were dried perfectly, or else the builder
would flrut in the damp, and create disease in the timber of the ship.
Upon an average his Lordship said, he thought two years long enough
for proper seasoning and finifhing. He took notice of Captain Lut
trell's comparison of the date of ong navy in 1762 and 1781, and said
the honourable gentleman, whose spirit and abilities as a senator,
were as conspicuous as his gallantry and conduct in the field, had
chosen two odd years to compare together. He pointed out why the
year 1759, an d the Year 1781, would have been an apter comparison.
He likewise adverted to the quondam assertion of I.ord Mulgrave,
that the late Lord Hawke was an excellent officer, anda mod able sea
man, but that he was not a great naval Mirrifter. This dodlrine he
could not fubferibe to, not being able to bring his mind to adopt the
idea, that he who was allowed to. be perfectly master of all the
powers of working a machine, should not he as capable of directing
its position as another who was not acquainted with the former.
His Lordship said, with regard to the present estimates, he should
rather move to take off half the firm charged for extraordinaries,
than refufe voting the estimates at all; and on this principle,—he
thought it fafer to let government exceed the supply in expenditure,
and afterwards come to. that House, to provide lor the excess, and so
leave it open to the eye of Parliament, than to vote them four hun
dred thousand pounds, part of which they might not want. If he
did not make any such motion, he should expe& to hear a fufficient
reason assigned, why the extraordinaries this year exceeded thofeof
the proceeding year so greatly? After a variety of argument of dif
ferent tendency, his Lordship tooli occasion to mention the notice
just given by Mr. Fox, and said, he had hoped that if the honourable
gentleman had carried his motion the other night in the Committee,
he would himfelf, the next day, in bringing up the report, have
moved the previous question upon it, thereby adding in the mod li
beral manner, and convincing the nation that Parliament had done
its duty; that itlooked into mismanagement, upon a fair parliamen
tary ground, but that no personal views mixed in the business. His
I.opdfhip dated various reasons agamfl removing the Earl of Sandwich
at present. He said, among other things, that the plans of government
for the ensuing campaign were by this time formed, and that, in his
opinion, the present Ministers who had deliberated and determined
upon a fyflem of operations to be immediately commenced, were rhe
fitted men that could befound to superintend their execution. Besides,
let not any let of men carry their desires to get the present ministers
out of the office, beyond fight of prudence. If publick affairs were
in a bad condition, let them not by rafhneß and precipitation, put
them into a condition dill worse. If they had it not in their power
immediately to help the date, and give its profpedls a brighter afpe&p
they ought not to plunge it deeper into difficulty, and render its prof
pe&s dill more gloomy! If the Earl of Sandwich were to be removed
from his office to-morrow, who was there to succeed him? Would
the honourable relation (Admiral Keppel) of the honourable gentle
man, who had given notice of his intention to propose his motion to
the House, accept of the noble earl's place? He knew not the ho
nourable Admiral's mind upon the fubjedl, but he could not think,
that circumstanced as matters were, he would like to take the Presi
dency of the Admiralty Board just now. Who was there then to fill
the feat in case of an immediate vacancy ? Would the noble Lord next
upon the lift as a Commifhoner of the Admiralty accept the place?
He believed even he would not chufe to take the htuation. He knew
not where a fit fucccffor was to be looked for. and therefore he (hon'd
think it a very imprudent flep, were that House to proceed to a re
solution for the removal of the Earl of Sandwich from his office.
His Lordship recommended unanimity, as the heft means of na
tional security, and quoted the elegant fable of the father and his
sons, and the bundle of flicks.
Mr. Fox replied and said, if the House resolved the fuel, that the
navy was mismanaged he certainly should follow up the motion with
another for the removal of the mifmanager. That was parliamentary
conduct and perfectly conflitutional. But it was not parliamentary
nor constitutional for him to point out a fucccffor. the Crown was
to chufe and to determine who should succeed a Miniver yhen re
moved; that House had a right to resolve on an addtefs, praying the
removal of any Minister convinced before that House of mifmana^e
ment of that part of the publicly service entrafted to his care. With
regard to his honourable relation, he had no authority from him, to
fay what his mind was with regard to fucteeding tlie Earl of Sand
wich in his office, were the Crown to offer him that Situation; but he
believed, whenever an opportunity offered for his honourable rela
tion to serve the publick again, and he could embrace it with honour,
he would do it niofi readily. But.to. put his honourable relation out
of the question, he saw 110 difficulty in the Crown's finding a fucccffor
fit for the station, after recollecting the great and rclpcclable cha
racier, he had heard fpealt but the moment before he. rose. With
regard to his motion, he certainly would make it next Wednesday;
and it he was so fortunate as to carry it, and he made to doubt but
he should be so fortunate, he would immediately follow it Up with
a motion for the removal of the Earl of Sandwich. This, he obser
ved, would certainly be a separate motion from the other, and no
voter for the firft was bound to vote for it, though he should think
he was.
Lord Mdgrnvc in an able reply to Col Barre and Lord Howe, con
tended, that the present Admiralty had made infinitely greater exer
tions than any former one. In rhe last eleven" years, 147,000^tons ' of
Dipping had been built or repaired; but in the sixteen years before
only 73 000 tons had been built or repaired. The honourable Mem
ber's account of our having only 95 fail of the line for the year, was
erroneous. He himfelf was not sanguine in his expectations, else he
might have Rated, that, instead of 14 fail of the line, 27 would be
brought forward this year; in that case our force would be 112 fail
of the line in commission; but only reckoning on 20 new (hips
our force, would be 105 of the line. Thinking that his L.ordfnip,
in mentioning the appointment of a fucccffor to the present firfl
I,ord of the Admiralty, had designed to be ironically severe upon
him, he retorted with fume warmth, and in support of his own asser
tion relative to Lord Hawke in afqrmer debate, he laid, he looked
upon I.ord Torrington and Lord Anson, as having been both able
officers, and great naval Ministers, while he considered Sir Charles
Wager and Lord Hawke as two very able officers, but by no means
as great naval Ministers. In answer to Lord Howe's question, why
the present extraordinaries exceeded those of any former year? He
said, the reason was, the ships now building in the merchants yards,
were contrasted for to be paid by investments, and consequently the
nearer they 'advanced towards being finished; the larger each inveft^
ment became, and the yearly calls for money on that account muff
rieccffarily encreafe accordingly. In reply to what Colonel Barre had
said about Sir Charles Middleton's being called to the bar, he decla
red, he gave his consent mod cordially, and would be extremely glad
to fcG the Comptroller of the Navy under examination, at the House
COLLINS & HAYES,
No. 12, Broad-Street,
Have imported in the last Jbipsfrom LONDON,
The following ARTICLES,
Which they are felling on the most reofonable terme;
RED Port, Madeira, Lisbon and Malmfcy wines in pip%
hogsheads and quarter-calks
lifbon Wine and London Porter in bottles
Soap, Starch and Hair-Powder
Long and short Tobacco Pipes
Paints, Oil, Roll Brimstone
Lamp and Ivory Black and Blacking Balls
Military Shirts, ruffled and plain
Ditto worded, yarn and thread Hofc, and
A general affertment of DRY GOODS.
N B A number of strong iron-bound CASKS. ff
GEORGE THOMSON,
At his Store on Greemcood's Wharf, near the Lower-Market,
Has on Sale, very reasonable,
RUM, Brandy, Wine and Geneva
Queen's Ware Plates and Diffies
Tureens and all forts of Crockery neatly afforded
Mess Beef and Pork in barrels
Exceeding good Lewis's Philadelphia Flour
Bed Pearl Bailey of Scotland
Venison Tongues
Negro Cloth, Ofnaburgs, Sugar, Tea, &c.
A L S O,
A large assortment of TIN and GLASS WARE,
N. B. Storage for goods. ft
HAMILI ON STEVENSON, having returned to this
place, and intending to remain fomc time in it, begs leave to
acquaint the publick, that during his day, he will follow his business
of Fainting in Miniature, and executing designs in hair. Such
Ladies and Gentlemen as may wish to employ him, will be pleased
to enquire at Mrs. Dawson's, No. 92, Meeting-street.•
La be Let, and poffeffien given immediately,
Several Back Stores and Dry Cellars.
For particulars enquire at No. xor, Broad-street. ||
so Run, it in BHLLAST-TKIM
To B RISTO L,
And to touch at CORK,
Tofail by thefirft of July,
That foft failing Lugger
The ADVENTUR E,
John M'Carty Master.
Is well armed and manned, and will have good accomoda
tions for pafTengers. For freight or passage, apply to said Mas
ter on board the veffell ying at Burn's Wharf, or to
EDWARD CORBET,
No. 97, Broad-llrect.
for L OND ON, -
The SHIP
HAPPY RETURN;
William Gickie, Master,
Burthen about 300 tons, is a fine ship, fails remarkably sass; and
will in two months proceed with or without convoy. For freight or
passage apply to ft W. SOTOi; No. 3'3, lfy.
ALL persons having any demands against the estate of the
. late Hopkin Price, deceased, are requested to make them
known immediately, and those indebted to it by bond, note or
otherwise, are desired to difeharge the fame as soon as possible.
Robert Williams, 7
|b. WILLIAM PRINT, } Executors.
JOHN CORBYN MORRIS,)
RUN away from the subscriber the 23d of May last, a ne
gro boy named TOM, about seventeen years of age, is' very
artful, and having a pass signed by Col. Robert Ballingall no doubt:
will attempt to hire himfelf out. This is to forewarn all perfans
whatever from hiring or harbouring the said boy; and all matters
of vessels from carrying him off the province. A reward of ONE
GUINEA will be paid to any person delivering him to the keeper
of the Sugar-House, or to William Burt, at No. 1, South-Bay.
Charlepo-vn, IStb, 1/82.
'VoTfrTUc ARO 1, I N A.V
ALEXANDER BRODIE, of the Province aforefaid, who
is in cuffody of the Sheriff of the Board of Police, at the
suit of Henry Martin, having petitioned the Intendants of the said
Board that he may be admitted to the benefit of the aeff made for the
relief of insolvent debtors: It is ordered, That the said Henry Martin,
and all others to whom the said petitioner is any wife indebted, be,
and they are hereby summoned and have notice to appear at the
fitting of the said Board, which (hall happen three months after the
date hereof, to (hew cause, if any they have, why the petitioner
should not have the prayer of his petition granted.
TIM April, 1782. THO. WINSTANLEY, C. P.
-S () UTH-CARGLIN A. ' 'U
LAWRENCE DUGGON, of the province aforefaid, who
j is in custody of the Sheriff of the Board of Police, at the suit
of Barnard Kara, having petitioned the Intendants of the said Board
that he may be admitted to the benefit of the a& made for the relief
of insolvent debtors: It is ordered, That the faid^a^ard Kane,
and all offiers to whom the said petitioner is any wife indebted, be,
and they are hereby summoned and have notice to appear at the
fitting of the said Board, which (hall happen three months after the
date hereof, to (hew cause, if any they have, why the petitioner
should not have the prayer of his petition granted.
-^yf, 1782, THO. WINSTANLEY, C. P.
would then have veal 'mlelfynee before them, and not merely unfa,
ported assertion, and ill founded inve&ive.
Lord Hozve explained, and declared he had no intentions to be iro
nical on the noble Lord. He admitted and admired his parliamen
tary talents; but when he spoke on profeffional topicks in that House.
he had been induced to think, he spoke more like a politician than a
mariner; but this was merely a matter of opinion.
Lord Muigrave replied, and declared, that were a profeffional de
bate to take place within those walls, he should carefully avoid joining
in it; because he thought it a very unfit thing for that House to enter
into a discussion of fubje&s which, as a House of Parliament, he did
riot thinly them competent to decide upon.
Lord Mahon put a quellion to Lord Howe about the assertion of
his Lordship, that fliips might be built too quick, as well as too fine
ly, because, he said, it contradicted the opinion of men well versed
in the fubje&.
Lord Hoove replied, by declaring that what he meant by the asser
tion, was, merely with regard to the r.eceffary seasoning of the tim
bers. Vegetable life and animal life he said, were liable to difeafe#
extremely similar; that if raw timber, or timber with the sap in it;
was elofed and planked in, that timber would grow putrid from it<
juices, and rot in consequence. Thus it behoved builders to take care
that the ribs were dry before tkey were covered in. The conversa
tion ended.
The resolutions were then agreed to, and ordered to be reported
to-morrow.
After which, the House was resumed, and rose immediately; nine
o'clock.