The royal gazette — [Charleston] S.C., 1781-07-18 00:00:00, page 4

PARL°IAXEXTARV fhOCLEDiNGS.
House of Commons, Taef^y, February 27.
[Delate on Mr. Burke's Bill, continued]
MR. Pitt began his speech with declaring, that when a fu\fe<n:l
of so much importance was under difcuiEon in that IJoufe,° he :
thought it the duty of every member of Parliament to lpeak his
sentiments upon ifo in, order that his conflitueuts might be able to
form a judgment how far he, was likely to prove a faithful represen
tative, and whether he avowed himfelf a true friend to the liberties of
the people, nr nouint to uphold the influence of the Crown, in its
increased and dangerous extent. With regard to what had been said
on the other lide of the Houle in objection to the Bill of his honour
able friend, one observation had beer, made wnichh~ was ready to
adopt, because he perfectly agreed in the truth of it. An honourable
gentleman had laid, that a proportion of reform and economy in
the management of the civil lift revenue ought to have comodrom the
Crown—undoubtedly it ought, ft would have come from that quar
ter with more grace, with more dignity, and with more propriety;
but if his Majesty's Ministers had interposed between the benignity
of the Sovereign, and the dihreffes of his people; if they had wil
fahy prevented their royal matter from the voluntary performance of
ah a& of goodness which would have reflected luftre on the Crown,
that was 110 reason why they, as the representatives of the people,
Should negle& their duty, or remain inactive at a moment, when
their interposition became mod immediately necessary. It had been
agreed on all hands that the burthens under which the people groaned,
burthens that, in all probability, were more likely to be encreafed
than diminished, were pf that pressure that was scarcely tolerable,
and that every man, who pointed out a practicable mode of relief,
would deserve well of his country. The Bill of his honourable friend
met this idea compleatly, its effect would be salutary, its operation
easy. What was it that it- aimed at? Not the talking from the Crown
any one necessary part of its expence—not the abridgement of what
was ufeful or what was honourable—not the smallest degradation of
its glory, but a mere curtailment of useless pageantry, of empty
show, and idle pomp. Let any man ferioully confider the objects of
the Bill, and he was persuaded he would agree with him that it had
no other purpose. The noble Lord who spoke last, and the honour
able gentleman who went before him in the debate, and who, like
the noble Lord, objected to the principle of the Bill, had laid great
11refs on tlre harlhnefs of the measure.-—Undoubtedly it was an un
pleaiant thing for that home so take any step, that tended to lessen
the.income of his Majesty. Attached to the person of the Sovereign
by principles of the trued loyalty and the purett affection, they could
qot, with sensations of comfort and ease, proceed with a Bill of the
nature of that before them; but then it should be remembered, that
their condiments were paying enormous taxes, that the national dif
reefs was generally felt, and that the extreme necessity of the times
called upon the Crown to take its there in the public misfortunes, and
to contribute something at least, towards the public expence. He
had ever considered it to he the office of a-.-member of Parliament to
watch over and guard the liberties of the people with, a jealous and
ah unabating attention and aßiduity; but the did of all the duties of
a^member ot that House, surely was the duty of watching over and
guarding the property of his cenftituents. Would they then shew
themfelvcs worthy of the confidence of the people, if they readily ac
ceded to every new impost that was proposed by the Minister, with
out taking one hep at lead to convince them, that at the fame time,
they thought themfclves bound to consent to further additions to the
national burthens, they toolc especial care, that the Crown should
Participate in the expences of the war, and that the royal income
Should fuffer in feme proportion to the diminution of income daily
experienced by his MAjedy's fohje&s. Exclusive of the general claim
upon the House to adopt the Bill, on the ground of justice to their
confbtuents, the petitions that had been presented last year, pointed
the measure out as immediately agreeable to the sentiments of the
frople, and surely no mail would be hardy enough to all'ert, that
when the people petitioned Parliament in a peaceable and conftiruti
enal manner, it became that House to disregard their prayers. . One
great object of all the Petitions, that had been presented, was a re
commendation of ceconomy in the public expenditure ; one great
object; of the present Bill was to carry into effect the wishes of the
people, by introducing a substantial fyllem of oeconomy, Here then
all objection to the Bill in one point of view must fall to the ground.
But it had been said by an honourable gentleman who spoke early in
the debate, that the Bill.connected two-objects, that ought to have
been kept separate; his honourable friend near him [Mr. John
Townfhend] had {hewn that these objects ought to go hand in hand
together, and had very properly contended that this was the fit mo
ment for introducing reform and ceconomy. He should add, that the
Bill had a third object much more important than either of these, and
that was, the reduction of the Influence of the. Crown, that Influ
ence which the lad Parliament, by an express resolution had declared
to be encreafing, and that it ought to be diminished. In all the ar
guments of the noble Lord who spoke last, on the fubjecl of the re
solutions of the 6th of April, he observed the noble Lord's objections
were directed solely to the second of those refdlutions, he took it for
granted therefore that the noble Lord admitted the firft. That refu
tation pledged the House to do something effectual in compliance
with the petitions of the people; why then should the House refufe
to adopt the present Bill, the operation of which, in diminishing the
Influence of the Crown, rendered it, in his opinion, much mere va
luable than the mere confederation of the Saving it would effect? The
noble Lord had declared himfelf a warm friend to ceconomy, and had
likewise, if he understood him rightly, declared that he should have
been willing to be one of the advocates of the measure, if the title of
the Bill had not been fallacious, and if the money to be saved by it,
had been applied to the service of public. Upon that point he would
join issue with the noble Lord, and he did not doubt but he should be
able to convince him, that he was bound to Support the Bill, agreeable
to the tenor of his own condition.
Having put this matter very adroitly, Mr. Pitt went into an exa
mination of the various arguments that had been suggested by those
who opposed the Bill; he particularly answered the objections that
had been made to it, on the idea that the probable savings would not
afford any great relief to the public difhefs; and said, it was a very
'Angular mode of reasoning to admit thot immense turns were yearly
expending, and yet to contend that the Bill ought not to be agreed
tn, merely because. .it only extended to effect a moderate saving.
Mr. Pitt here read the following clause from the printed Bill.
" And it is hereby enabled by the authority aforefaid, That all
“ the Hilaries, lawful fees, perquisites, and profits whatsoever, be
" longing to all and every the offices by this act suppressed, shall
“ cease and determine with the determination of the said offices feve
“ rally, and be no longer paid; and that the Commiflioners of the
" Treafnry shall, [within a reasonable time.] make, or cause to be
" made up, an account of the salaries and fee°, now payable for or
" on account of the said offices severally, as alto an account of all
'• the charges whatsoever, ordinary or extraordinary, incurred for
“ or by reason of the said offices, during [a certain number] of years
“ last past; and shall cause a sum to the amount of a medium of the
" said salaries, fees, and charges/ to be annually set apart, and a fe
“ parate account to be kept of the fame, and to carry the said sum
" or sums of money, together with the amount of each and every
“ pension as it shall fall or determine, until the said pension lift be
" reduced to a sum to [be limited by the act,] (except as in this act is
" otherwise provided) to the Sinking Fund, there for to remain for the
" disposition of Parliament."
Now, unless the noble Lord supposed that the carrying money to
the Sinking Fund, there to remain for the disposition of Parliament,
was not applying it to the fervice-of the public, he flattered himfelf
the noble Lord would agree, that, he was bound to support the Bill.
The clause which thenoble Lord had quoted, viz. clause 27, page 13,
of the, printed Bill, only ordained that a particular portion of the
general savings of the Bill; - Should be laid out in railing a fund for
the provision of any of the Royal Family. Perhaps however the
noble Lord thought it for the public service, that the Civil Lift reve
nue should be Squandered away at the discretion of the Minister, in
order to extend the Influence of the Crown. If the noble Lord
did not adopt and maintain that doctrine, though he could not but
beg pardon of the House for having taken up so much of their time
in -effecting it, he should not .think his trouble ill repaid, if it had
enabled him to reconcile the noble Lord to the principle of the Bill,
and convert him from his enmity to it, into one es i:s advocates.
1. Accoruuig to this fort of argument, all piars of crennem, wLkh
fell ihort of the whole of the public expence, ought to be rejected.
Every new project (he said) mull have a beginning, the Bill of hs
honourable friend was but one part of a large scheme, and as far it
went, no person could contradict that it would have ' beneficial ope
ration; was it therefore any answer to it to fay, that the public dif
trel; was too great to admit of relief from ceconomy, that our expell
ees were so enormous, that to attend to matters of account would
be ridiculous, that we Spend so many millions, that the saving ofthou
fands was beneath our consideration; in fact, that we spent so much,
that it was idle to attempt to save any thing, and -yet glaringly ab
fiird as these portions were, they were in furious truth the on,, po
rtions on which the opposition to the Bill relied. It had been laid
by fomc gentlemen, that the King's Civil Lift was an irrefumeable
parliamentary grant, and it had even, been compared to a private
freehold. The weaknel's of such arguments were their bed refuta
tion. It was trite, that Parliament had-made the grant ot the Civil
frill Revenue Specially, fob his Majefty'u life; but for what purpose ?
—for his Majesty's private uie? No man,, he was confident, would
venture to assert any such thing. The Civil Lift Revenue was granted
to his Majesty as the executive State, to support the Government, to
pay the Judges, to pay the other great Officers, and to maintain the
grandeur, the dignity and the luftre of the Crown, in which every one
of his Subjects had an interest. His Majesty, in fa&, was the tr ullee of
the public, Subject to Parliamentary 'fupefvifibn ; and though tutelage
wasa harih term, surely no man would fay, that it was any degradation
to a British Prince to be under the guardianJkrp of a British Parliament.
I he Par Lament had made the grant, and undoubtedly had a right to
resume it, when the necessity of affairs rendered such a refuniption so
necelFary as it was at present : Besides, might not Parliament fairly
fay, "when we made the grant the wealth of the kingdom was great
er than it is now. .The people were better able to pay so large a
Civil Lift than they are at tins crisis; our affairs were then prosper
ous, we now fatally experience the fad reverse. We made you a li
beral grant when we could afford to do so, do you therefore remit a
part of it 'till we are again in the fame happy condition." Mr. Pitt
referred to what had been laid 011 this point by Mr. J. Townfhend, as
perfectly applicable, and declared the Bill had his hearty. Client, after
adducing various other argument's in fuppoft'of the principle of it,
which are not at present in our recollection.
Mr. WraxaJl said, he felt great timidity on fifing, bebaufe he was
aware that every man who ventured to object to a Bill, one declared
object of which was to introduce a large and beneficial system of pub
lic ceconomy, must stand on very unpopular ground. Projects of re
form were at all times seducing to a nation, let the circumstances of
the public be ever so promising and prosperous; but when a great peo
ple w^re 'rugging under a variety of prefling difficulties, when those
difficulties rather increased than diminiffied, and when the happy
hour that was to put an end to them was out of fight, projects of
reform became more fedueftive, and therefore it was no wonder.that
they were grasped at with the greatest eagernels by men of almost
every turn of political sentiment and opinion ; because where the bur
then was generally felt, every man must unite in wishing that it were
alleviated, if it could not be removed. Projedtsof reform also, b&
came the more alluring, where they were supported by recent prece
dent, and upheld by the powerful aid of the moil pollfried eloquence ;
he should not therefore be fui prized at any afyerbons that might be
thrown cm him, for presuming under such circumstances as he had
hated, to endeavour to draw the attention to the House to a few ob
servations, which he had to offer in objection to the Bill then under
• consideration. His duty however, which should ever be his tirft ob
je&, impelled him to surmount every terror that he felt, and to pro
ceed in his purpose, unawed with the dread of any consequences that
might arise from it; and firft, he disapproved of the grand principle
on which the Bill proceeded. His objection was a radical one, lie
could not fubfaibe to the resolution of the last Parliament, which
asserted, " That the Influence of the Crown had increased, is in
creasing, and ought to be diminished." Not feeling the tru h of a re
solution come to by so referable an authority as a Briifh House of
Commons, and which had been since so strongly infilled on by fume
of the ablest men of the age, he was aware that it was incumbent
on him to account for his refilling the assertion, and denying the ex
tent of it, and this he would do as shortly as possible.
He then drew a pifture of the constitution of this country, and
was waim in its culogium. He declared it to be more perfect than
. the constitution of Rome, of Athens, or of Sparta; in short, than that
, of any RepubliceithertfAntiquity or of modern Europe; its perfection,
he said, lay in the nice preponderance between its three branches, in
that wonderfully correct equipoise which balanced the pow er of the
three diftin& but relative dates of King, Lords and Commons; nor
need there be a greater proof of its excellence and its perfection, than
the admiration, the efleem, and the applause with which it had been
spoken of by the wifefl men of all countries ! In times previous to the
tera of 1688, when the glorious Revolution was effected, Mr. Wrax
all said, Prerogative was the weapon of the Crown. The liberties
of the people were not then accurately defined, and the people were
from that very circumflance liable to many inroads and much oppref
. fion,which was exercised by that powerful engine, prerogative, under
various pretences. But in 1688 prerogative was abrogated, and li
berty defined. At that fortunate period of our hiftoty, when the
Star Chamber, the Court of Wards, and all the execrable tyranny in
troduced and pra&ifed by the house of Stuart was abolished, and in
its Read the Bill of Rights and Magna Charta established; the King
flood, as it were, chained to the pillar of liberty. It was the great
support of his reign, the sublime fabric which he engaged to eredl;
and who so proper to be the architect, as a Prince who had been at
the head of a free Republic, and had been called from thence and in
vited to fill the throne of a yet freer people! But still virtually and
tacitly a barrier was wifely left to the Crown. That barrier was In
fluence ! William the Third, the avowed opposer of tyranny, the
guardian of the liberties of the people, and the advocate for the ge
neral freedom of Europe, was as jealous as any Prince of his influence.
Why? Because he saw that if Influence was loft, the Crown would
be degraded, and the nation must soon become degraded likewise.
In order to shew that this would have been the consequence, Mr.
Wraxall adverted to the History of Sweden, citing the fate es that
country as an example correctly in point. He gave an account of
Sweden, as it flood at the time the constitution of it was changed In
the year 1718, when it was governed by Ulrica, after the death of
Charles the Twelfth, as well as upon her resignation of the throne in
favour of her consort Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse Caffel, up to the
year 1772, when the revolution took place. During all that period,
he said the strong features of Sweden were faction, venality, vilifica
tion and poverty ; lofsof glory, Orength and refpe&. The navy re
duced to seven ships, the people enervated and spiritless, the Govern
ment without system or public glory ! till at length, the nation was
funic into contempt, despised by every other European power, and
the Swedes almost annihilated as a people. All these calamities and
all this disgrace, Mr. Wraxall said, had been entailed on Sweden, in
consequence of the people, in the year 1718, having, when they felt
fore from the oppreflion and rigour of the reign of Charles the
Twelfth, madly precipitated into the opposite extreme, androbbed
the Crown of all its natural, just and constitutional Influence. After
ftating,.this pretty fully, he took notice of Mr. Burke's declaration in
his speech of the 15th instant, "That France had made a reform,
that Louis the 16th had done it, ^ —why then should not we imitate so
bright an example?" Few reasonings on French conduct, Mr. Wrax
all said, could ever apply to England ; France was a despotic, this a
free country. British Kings could not imitate arbitrary Princes. In
England the Throne is built on liberty. In France it rests on the
necks of 200,000 soldiers. It is upheld by Farmers General, by op
pression, by a servile Parliament, banished at will, as the last Par
liament was, to Augouleme and Pontoife, and by military rigour,
and armed authority. But Mr. Burke had said, that " Louis the
14th and Louis the ryth had never made fnch a reform. It was left
for Monsieur Neckar, a single unconnected alien, to atchieve so glo
rious a project and to do his royal mafterfo much service, accompa
nied with so much honour." He denied the whole cf the assertion.
Retrenchments of the kind were by no .means novelties in France. In
the year 1689, in the reign of Louis XIV. when Monsieur Le Pellc
• tier was at the head of the Finance, 3 millions of livres were railed
by melting down the King's Plate, and three millions more from
that of his Nobles. Such a reform was surely a very rigorous one,
and it was the more extraordinary, as it was made in the beginning
of a prosperous war. Again, in the year 1706, when Chaniillard
^ managed the Finances of France, another reform,took- place, and,
'^''d, a third, in ¥76% wl% D-mark's wav ~ I,^
reign of Lewis XV. Cardinal Fleury's iui& uecorXnr- ' 1
peace, made a reform not so requisite in the war o' b "^
the year 1761 and 1762, a thorough reform, as u^ , f
took place. "k@,
Having,dtoelt omtheTe fams for some time, Mr. Wraxa'ln
to reply to other parts of Mr. Burke'; speech cf the mth f
ary, and said, as to the Honourable Gentleman's reasons for'/ '° "'
Fi ance, he, differed from him extremely. The Honours] :i ?
tieman had declared, that he feared her on account of h^r °"
and on no other account. He felt a very different motive for
France at present. It was not 011 account of her powerful
her great alliances. No. Neither was it on account of her
That could do but very little indeed. He feared her, because ft'' 1
. devote ail her finances to her navy; because she had no land v "'
cause we have no continental ally, and because the frontier of '''
was secure and peaceable. There was the deep evil, the son
the only source of real danger tothis country ! Wh'i : e the f r ™" :
France was -undisturbed, and the Rhine flowed quietiv
banks, - we had every reason to be alarmed ; because while"
renamed in that Rate, France could support her navy
- s™, it rapidly, and could add daily to its number, its
its service. Mr. Wraxall argued this point with all the e^C'
of conviction, and at length returned to the bill again "?
was ready to fubferibe to Mr. Burke's arguments relative to '
<Boards, and the ridiculous establishments of the Duchy of 1 -
the Duchy of Cornwall, the Palatinate of Chester, and the I™'" 1 ™'"
pahty of Durham; he was ready also to allow, that all h&h
on those topics was equally just and beautiful, but he tould not, '
with him tnat they ought to be abolished, and the reason
cause he was not for destroying the Influence of the Crown '
Mr. Wraxall here pointed out the great danger of popular A ,
- and democratic violence. He spoke Of the infurreaioL of "
me, which he described as horrible atrocities, at the lecolk^'
. whichever, true friend cf liberty, and every true friend gX'T"
vernn ,p nt must shudder. He ascribed those mifehiefs to ?ft
republican phrenzy, and touched mi the danger of affociati^n, ^
though let on loot by the best lovers of their country, fometi^
to events not only totally foreign to the intentions of those
.Ututeo ujch associations, but which they could not but
lament. In the course of the last summer, lie said, every
thought upon the fubjed feriotfly, felt himfelf juflified in d^'
a.civil war, a calamity that-would have completed our raisfortta
^ c ,: nc IT' ^'™ fiyir ^\ l h:it those who love the English pco;
, liberties, must assemble round the throne. They rr^'?'
fend it from all attacks, as well from the innorating proie&fr
^ngerous but „ell mining theories, as from the opV&"
^ eft r, res ; otherwise the constitution itfelftvould sap ^.
the lability .or the throne, and the fecunty of the people were^'
parable., Weaken the One, the other must necessarily be inh^'
f or which reason, he fhotld oppose the prefent.bill. '''[
"? z f m Do% opposed the Influence of the ariftocraev
wealthy m,,duah to the Influence of the Crown, and said he so
ref o mu of Influence on both tides. Much had been Aid a, ra inft
toted wito the Ministers, as if they could not pofliblvakfo
p^re and honest fove, he thought such arguments ]
" TV* 1 : w ^h ^ ^ m ^ ch proprie ybe Aid, thJt%
?^'^°° ^" e "'r conflft ed of the < iWarded d — A
. odifearded h^ufrs, and h r saw no reufen to fuprofe that rafd
j"° e ^ ^pechayons crewed more undue influence .m the one 1^
titan cmappomtgd ambition and avaritious anxiety created or
° ther l, , r<Wdrd to the ' rftu ence of the Crown, which one %
i+th, ° en ^, a " !" J°" n Townfhend ] had termed a monster
7 m %f,^ borrendum informe ingens, and he Mould add ri
^ven for irever there was a blind monger, this fame k.
fluence cf the Crown must have been so last year, if it prevailed
the degree that Ms been Rated, and nevertheless had fo'totkly
an ™.°, n interest, as to fuffer the Refolntions of the Ah 3
April, wmch cut at the very root of its existent to be naffed
. v o ",^ J'™^ l " ° f the Houfe# Sir William said w itu
g o rd to the bill, there were some parts of it which, he tbow'v
might produce great good; he meant some of those clause to^
''" Mint> & ' ' &c ail that r^
ERabhfliment of his Majesty's houfehoid he hi&y
disapproved.
bor Sale on Burn's Wharf,
WOOD, Lumber, Rice, Indigo, Salt and Cordas. En.
quire, at the Scale-House, of JOHN SMITH+
Any person in want of a SCHOONER, may apply as above.
A' there is an abfoluie ueceility tor fettling the concerns (f
the estates of Theodore Gaillard, fen. and Mr, David
Gaillard, deceased, all persons to whom the said estates are in
debted, are desired to fend in dates of their demands, properly at
tested, on or before the loth of August next ; and all those who arc
indebted to the above estates, either on bond, note, or open-account,
and those who have paid depreciated monies, are requested to fettle th^
fame immediately. Lydia Gaillard, Executrix.
John Gaillard, ] _
Elias Ball, j Executors.
The accounts to be sent in to Col. Ball, Kin^-street No. 168. *!.
Iwo Guineas Reward.
LOST, a RtD Morocco Pocket-Book, containing several
accounts, and two notes of hand, of no life but to the
owner. Any person finding the fame, and will leave it with
the Printers nereof, or Daniel O'Hara, No. 25, on the Bay,
shall recceive the above reward.±
F O R SAL
A Well-finifhed BRICK HOUSE, No. 9, on the Bay, and
the WHARF, known by the name of Wragg's, contain
ing on the Bay 176 feet front, and upwards of wo feet in depth.
Apply to + THEODORE GAILLARD.
A LL persons anywise indebted to the late HlUiam Cbifob^,
" of Charleftown, house-carpenter, deceased, are hereby
called upon to difeharge their refpeHive debts ; and those wh&
have any demands to deliver them in, properly attetted, t^
t DEAS, Administrator.
- _
A PLANTATION on James-Bland, containing near^co
acres, as good land as any on the island, with a good two-koi,
brick house with four rooms on a floor, and dry cellars, a large ba%
and every other convenient building for a fettled plantation, ^
miles from town. Payment will be made easy for the purchafeL
Enquire of Mr. JohnTun.no, near the south end of the Bay. *6
RUN away in June last, the following two - Negroes, b^
this country born ; Joe; about 21 or 22 years old, fyeaas ver,
quick, is sensible and artful, has a large mouth, and very white teeda;
Bella, a young wench of 18 or 19 years old, this country born, 0^
black complexion, Whoever will deliver them to me in St. Raf^
Parish, Stono, or secure them in the Sugar-house, shall receive O^L
GUINEA for each; and all persons are forewarned from hiring,.^°
tertaining, or carrying off either of them, on pain of being pn^
cuted to the utmost rigour of the law, by
%/v 7,i78r.t ISAAC M'PHFPSON:
Eight Dollars Reward.
RUN away from his mailer, a negro man named JoG,^
longed once to Mr. John Gilmore, was formerly a free ma%^
carpenter by trade, and used to work about the town, and is general,
known from his bad-and deceitful behaviour; he is ths greater "'i
and uioft artful negro in this province; he has for ionc dm ,I^l
been seen working in Broad-street, and ccafequently n 'ay Ad ^-
tinue about the town. Whoever delivers him to the kreprro tl# (
Sugar-house, or can give intelligence where he is c nnai d,
have the above reward, .on applying at No. 190, Kicg-I.reel; ^yri
makers cf vessels and others are hereby warned not to herbour fc^
fellow, at they will answer it at.tLeir peril.. %.
[To BE CONTINUED.]