The New-Jersey gazette — Burlington [N.J.], 1782-05-15 00:00:00, page 4

nefs, to fit down.
Alderman Newnham rose next, and said, after
what had been so ably stated by the honourable Gen.
who opened the debate, and by other honourable
members, he should scarcely have ventured to de
tain the house, could he let so important a question
pass unnoticed. He fliould only therefore lay, that
as far as he Could judge from all ranks of people,
they were strenuously for abandoning the American
war ; that his constituents in particular (the citizens
of London) were decided in that opinion, and had
given on that day the most recent proof of it, by an
unanimous vote to the petition which was presented
to the house. To the petition of the city of Lon
don he begged the house to confider that Bristol
had added a similar opinion, and that the greatest
refpeX should be had to the sense of two such im-
portant corporations.
When a similar motion to that before the house
had been agitated last Friday, it had been reported
that he had deferred his duty without waiting for a
division ; but he took that opportunity to fay, he
had previously provided againlt his country losing
the benefit of his vote on that occasion. Had he
been guilty of such a charge, he should not expert
to be forgiven by his constituents, and, what would
be worse, he should never be able to forgive himfelf.
Here the cry of the question ringing from all
sides of the minority bench, for the space of about
half a minute, and no reply on the part of admini
fhation, the gallery was ordered to be cleared, and
the speaker was preparing to put the question; when
up rose
Lord North, who said he was rather furprized
to hear the cry of the question so early in the de
bate; it did not usually come from that fide of the
house, nor yet in so loud and general a manner ; he
however would trespass on their patience a little
longer, in order to lay before them his sentiments
on the motion. He said he was free to agree with
the warmest of the honourable gentlemen who had
spoken, in thinking that peace with America was a
most desirable thing; it was an objeX he sincerely
wished for; but he apprehended the motion before
them was not in all refpeXs competent to produce
so salutary a measure.
His lordship lamented the miseries and calamities
of the present war, and the great pressure it laid up
on all ranks and descriptions of people, he said, he
and others of his Majesty's Ministers, should be un
feeling and incompetent to their offices, could they
look upon those distresses without every attention to
foften and relieve them; but he apprehended, as he
fai'd before, the motion before the house would not
be found adequate to that purpose. Here he spoke
more particularly to the question, and asked, ad
mitting it was not carried, what consequences might
be expeXed? We could not be sure of making peace
by it, as no certain line had been prescribed by it ;
besides, it would be giving parliament a precedent
to follow up this motion, with such others they
might think proper to adopt, as to confound the le
gislative with the executive powers. As to the pow
er of parliament interfering, he did not dispute it,
it was inherent in that great branch of legislation,
and they have, as was observed by the honourable
General, often in former reigns used this power—
but then he begged leave to observe, that it was
ever upon great, pressing and trying occasions they
used it, and when they were fully competent in all
points of knowledge to that advice ; but here he
would ask gentlemen, did they collectively think
themselves competent on this occasion? Did they
confider, how necessary it was to know the Rate of
private negociations and informations, the eventual
late that many political objeXs lay in, and the whole
fetail of political correspondence, so necessary to
uide the Ministers of the cabinet, but which the
xoufe could not be, for many reasons, informed of?
f°hefe, with a number of other reasons, which his
lordship stated, weighed with him very much, in
,ot agreeing to the motion; because it fell short of
hat knowledge so absolutely necessary to cariy it
into execution.
Another matter he would acquaint the house of
and they were bound, both by the duty they owed
their constituents, and the general interests of this
% country to give their consent to it.
Capt. J. Luttrell attempted to speak after Sir
Horace Mann, but was scarcely on his legs half a
minute, and had only uttered one sentence, (which,
as far as we could hear, led to a dissent from the
motion) when he was obliged, through sudden ill-
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was, that perhaps the motion contained no other
advice but that which was previously resolved upon
by the Cabinet. So far he thought he might fafe
ly acquaint them of, that the mode of the war was
entirely changed—that no more troops were to be
sent to America, but to fill up the regiments there
on duty ; and that in other refpeXs it Was his wish,
as he believed the general wishes of the other Mi
nisters, to avail themselves of every opportunity to
make peace upon the belt terms they could; and he
was of opinion that peace, which would be made
for the honour of this country, mutt be made
through that medium.
In refpeX to what had been stated by the Hon.
General in the opening of the debate, that some
gentlemen talked one language out of the houle,
and voted in opposition to it in the house; he for
his part reprobated that kind of conduct, and if
there were an" who did so, they deferred censure.
For his part, his tongue and heart should be uni
form on this as well as upon all other fubjeXs; it
was a duty he owed himfelf to ad so, and it was
a duty his country demanded of him.
As to his general conduX as one of the Ministers
of this country, he would submit it to that house;
heowed much to it for their support and counte
nance, and he should at all times be free to ac
knowledge it; but if the majority of that house
felt any suspicion of his tonduX ; that he did not
do the best according to his abilities, for the good
of his country, he no longer desired their support;
and in that situation he would carry the seals to his
Majesty, and tell him, " Sire, I here return you
the seals of office you have entrusted me with; I
have served you according to the best of my abili
ties, but those abilities have been hitherto unfuc
cefsful, and are thought by the publick not to be
adequate to such confidence."
This declaration he thought it his duty to make
in such a situation, and he could not help agreeing
with his hon. friend (the Secretary for the Ameri
can department) that in preference to bringing such
a motion before the house, it would be more advife
able to move for a removal of his Majesty's Mini
sters, as the quetlion very clearly implied, they
were not competent to produce what Was in the
power of parliamert to'do.
His lordfllip begged the house to confider, that
though he would negative this motion, he had most
of the purposes of it highly in contemplation, and
it should be his earned desire, and he was sure it
was the earned detire of the cabinet, to accomplish
them as soon as an opportunity should offer; but
he hoped they would confider, that great circum
fpeXion and care were necessary to bring about this
purpose; he supposed, for instance, that the motion
was carried, and the house had bound themselves
no longer to aft on the offenfive war against Ame
rica—what may be the language of France on that
occasion ? Why, fays his lordship, they would na
turally fay, “ now the government of England have
so far done with you, that they will no longer car
ry on the war against you; they have made a decla
ration that they can no longer, confident with the
existence of their country, act on the offenfive. This,
therefore, is no time for you to make peace, where
you have nothing to fear—act with us a little lon
ger with vigour, and we shall obtain for you a full
reparation for all your wrongs." This, he said, was
natural to suppose would be the language of France
on that occasion, and the dilemma this country
would be in during that period, and the consequen
ces which might happen, he left for the house to re
fled on.
His lordship was about an hour and an half on
his legs, and spoke with great feeling, and at times
under visible emotion. Before he fat down, he hop
ed the house would do nothing precipitately ; for if
in a little time Ministers were found not to be trust
ed in the management of the war (after it had been
so recently declared, that the mode of it had been
altered, and that peace was their objeX) the house
would then have it in their power to renew the fub
jeft matter of this question, and take upon them
selves that executive part of legislation, which had
been so improperly conduced by his Majesty's Mi
nisters.
At about half an hour after one o'clock, the
attorney-general, moved the question of adjourn
ment; on which the house divided,
Ayes - - 215
Noes - - 234
Majority against the adjournment, 19.
The attorney-general said, he did not mean to
press his motion then; if it was the sense of the
house, he would withdraw it for the present, and
bring it before a committee to-morrow.
Mr. Fox said, hei hoped the late resolution of
the house would be Sufficient grounds for either the
prelent Ministers, or those who should lucceed them,
to enter into a treaty with America without a fpe
cific act of parliament for that purpose; he hoped
likewise, that a greater dependance might be placed
on Ministers after what happened the night be
fore; that they would now aX in a different manner,
and have the real interests of their country more
at heart. That for his part he wished for a speedy
,nd substantial connexion with America, which may
be effected, or at least put in train, without preci
pitately coming to this bill; not, however, that he
should object to it, if it was the sense of the house
when it came before a committee.
The house then immediately resumed the debate^
when the ministry, finding so great a majority a
gainst them as 19, gave up the main question without
a division; and at two o'clock the house adjourned.
THURSDAY, February 28.
Soon after the house met this day,
The attorney-general said he should move for
leave to bring in a bill to enable his Majesty to make
peace with America; he believed there would be
little necessity of enforcing either the reasons or the
principles of the bill after what had happened the
night before; he should therefore hope the motion
only lequired to be read, to meet with the appro
bation of the house. '1 he motion was accordingly
read, and was as follows:
" That leave be given to bring in a bill to em
power his Majesty to make peace, or to Conclude
a truce with the revolted colonies of America."
Mr. T. Townfhend thought there was a neces
sity for the learned gentleman going into the princi
ples of the bill then.
Sir G. Yorrfe objected to so important a mat
ter being brought for ward in so thin a house, as in
the framing of this bill, he conceived there must be
many circumstances attended to, which would re
quire much advice and deliberation; such as refer
ring to former aXs of parliament, not only made
since the beginning of the American war, but for
considerable time before. He threw out this obser
vation, he said, not to object to the bill, but to the
too precipitate manner it was brought in.
The speaker said, he believed the parliamentary
form would be to refer the motion firft to a com
mittee of the whole house. He was seconded by
Sir Grey Cooper, who quoted a precedent in the
commiihoners bill for offering terms of conciliation
with America.
Mr. Rigby was for agreeing with the bill when
it came before the committee, and said it was as idle
to talk of the sovereignty of this country over Ame
rica ate present, as it was to add the title of King of
France to that of his Majesty's other titles. He
held other dodrines, he said, at an other time, and
his principles were still the fame, but time and ac
cident had altered the system of things. He called
on Mr. Fox to know what he meant by the words
“ substantial connexions with America. 2 '
Mr. Fox answered, by those words he meant no
ad of sovereignty to be exercised by this country
over America, but such substantial connexions as
fliould derive from mutual interest, like that subsist
ing between Portugal and this country.
Mr. Huffey, Mr. Baker, Mr. Powis, and Sir Ed
ward Aftley joined in this conversation, when the
motion was at length agreed to be referred to a com
mittee of the whole house. ,'
Lord Hinchinbrook, acquainted the house, that
his Majesty had been pleased to appoint to-morrow,
(Friday) at two o'clock, to receive the humble ad
dress of that house, agreed to on Wednesday last.
FRIDAY, March 1.
This day the house met for the purpose of carry
ing up the address to his Majesty voted on Wednes
day last; when about half an hour after two, the
procession set forward, consisting of near two hun
dred coaches, preceded by the speaker: On their
return, the house adjourned to Monday next.
Wanted immediately,
A PERSON qualified for teaching an Engliffi
school; such a one may meet with encourage
ment by applying to the fubferiber in Amwell,
April 17, 1782. 2W Thomas Reading.