The royal gazette — [Charleston] S.C., 1781-06-09 00:00:00, page 4

THE Duke of Bolton rose, and informed the Houfe,.that he
had a motion to make to them, which, as only prepara
tory to another of more importance and ethcacy, he would
introduce whithout any kind of preface. His motion was,
•' That the House be summoned on Monday fe'miight, to
make an enquiry into the conduct of the navy, and the loss
of the valuable outward-bound convoy of merchantmen,
t/anfports, &c. which was captured/on the 9th of August last."
This motion having been read, ford Sandwich observed,
he could by no means agree to the motion, as it then flood.
It manifeftiy, in its prefix form, involved two dissing ques
tions, not necessarily connected in their nature, and differing
extremely as to the expediency of their being publickly com
municated, or publickly enquired into. He had no objection
whatever, that the loss of the convoy alluded to by the noble
Duke, should be fully and fairly investigated ; but he could by
no means agree that a general enquiry Should be instituted into
all the buiinefs of the navy. If the noble Duke would con
sent to leave out the firft part of his motion refpeChng the ge
neral enquiry into the conduct of the navy, his Lofdfhip had
not the smallest objection to accede to the remainder of it.
The Duke of Bolton contended, that it was impofiible for
him to omit the particular words alluded to by the noble
lord, because in the course of the enquiry which he meant
to institute, it might perhaps eventually turn out that the
particular loss, the cause of which he wished to be acquainted
with, might have arisen from some wrong arrangements in the
disposition of cur fleets, in the time of their failing, See.
The Lord Cbancellour was of opinion, that neither of the
noble Peers was in the right on this occasion. The objection
that had been urged by the noble Lord at rhe head of the Ad
miralty against the motion, was certainly not a good one ; for
it could not be a moment supposed, that the noble Duke could
derive any power of entering into a general enquiry into the
state of the navy, from the terms of his motion ; because he
had not only already explained his particular object in the in
stitution of this enquiry, but had expressed in the very motion
itfelf, what was the sole purpose of his making it. Under
these circumflances, the noble Duke mult have been conscious
that he could have no power of commencing an indiferiminate
investigation in consequence of a motion so limited in its form.
But though this was in his idea no valid objection to the en
quiry in question, there was another very substantial one, and
that was, that such an enquiry was entirely premature, as to
the time of its being instituted : it would at present be a very
unjust and unpardonable anticipation of another and more
foiemn enquiry, a legal enquiry into the conduct of the Cap
tain who had the command at the time that this fleet was cap
tured.—He had understood, that Capt. Moultrie was to be
tried for his behaviour on this occasion, and it would be to
tally inconsistent with the justice of that House to proceed to a
dcc'ifion on a fubjed which might, in its consequences, affect
the ultimate judgment that was to. be entertained by a regular
court martial concerning this officer. If, after that House
had gone through their enquiry, and had come toa resolution
in consequence, that the guilt, in this tranfa&ion, belonged
to a quarter which Capt. Moultrie was not at all concerned
tab then they .would be suspending the natural operation of a
judicial enquiry, by their anticipation ; for it would seem ab
surd to try Captain Moultrie, after the firft Court of Judica
ture in the kingdom had, by a serious and foiemn decilion,
pronounced him totally innocent. If, on the contrary, they
Should, at the termination of this enquiry wished for by the
noble Duke, declare that the principal guilt was chargeable to
the officer, he would be fubjeded to the misfortune of going
to a trial in which his fortune, character, and life were con
cerned, with all the weight of such a high authority against
him, and with every prejudice and bias,that such a decision
would naturally carry with It. On this account, therefore, he
held it improper to prosecute the enquiry moved' for by the
'noble Duke; but he wjfhed it to be understood as his opinion
in general, that the noble Lords-were extremely mistaken, if
they supposed they poffefled a right of bringing every little oc
currence under a parliamentary examination.—ls ever, trif
ling loss, which occurred in the unavoidable chance of war,
were to be brought before that high tribunal, there, was an
end to executive government; it could proceed no further;
she political machine must (top,and the business of the kingdom
stand still.—But that was by no means the case; for, in his o
pinion, no doctrine could be at once more impohtick, and more
unconstitutional, than the ehablifhment of such a power in
cither of the deliberative tenches of the Legislature. All
that could be done in the present instance, was to move for 2
day for the papers which had already been laid before their
Lordships to be read, as it was impofiible they could, in the
natural course of things, proceed to build an enquiry upon
papers which had not been previously read to them.
Lord Sandwich said, the matter appeared to him in another
point of view from the new light thrown on "it by the learned
Lord ; and he was of opinion until the determination of the
court martial, a parliamentary enquiry would be improper.
The Duke of Ballon asked Lord Sandwich, whether there was
to be a court martial?
Lord Sandwich replied, that orders had been sent out to
Admiral Sir Peter Parker, either to make an enquiry into the
conduct of Captain Moultrie, or to hold a court martial on
him, whichever appeared most proper; and that it would ac
cordingly be done. This his Lordihip said was the regular
mode, as the Captain was now on the Weft India Nation.
• The Duke of Bolton, after some trite remarks on this, re
turned to the navy affairs in general. He particularly menti
oned, that no enquiry had been made into the reason of Ad
miral Darby's flying before the French fleet, which he was
profeffedly sent out for the purpose of opposing. This Ad
miral had been stationed off Cape Ortega!, with the express
intention of fceking for the French fleet; and yet as soon as
this fleet appeared, tie turned his back upon them, and made
the bed of his way to port. This was exactly of the fame
date with Sir Charles Hardy's condufy during the proceeding
Summer, who had positive commands' from the Board of Ad
miralty, no doubt, to come precipitately, into port on meeting
with the French fleet, although he was very little inferior in
number. These were examples of mifconduX that their
Lordships ought to enquire into ; and if they did not they
were acceffarics in the fault.
Lord Sandwich rose again, and vindicated the conduct of
Admiral Darby, fa returning into port. He said, the Ad
miral had only 17 fail of the line, when he met with the
French fleet, which consisted of 38, or 44 fail, and therefore
Be would have been highly reprehcnfible if he had, in the night
especially, made any attempt to attack so superior a force.
Notwithstanding his inferiority, he had preserved the dignity
of the British flag, for he did not run away, asfoe noble Duke
seemed to iufinuate, but-kept in fight ofthis great fleet, and
never changed his direction. The noble Lordfpoke very gc
rtcroully in favour of Capt. Moultrie, and said; that notwith
itanding pofitive-ordere were sent for bringing him to trial,
yet he did not entertain the smallest doubt, that he had done
his duty to the utrtioft, and that the loss of the valuable con
voy alluded to by the noble Duke, was the effect of casualty,
and of no other cause whatever. He concluded with obser
ving, that if there were any noble Lords in that House, who
Should have recommended it as a proper and laudable conduct
for Admiral Darby to have attacked the French fleet under
iuch a disparity of nuinbers, all he had to fay upon tee fubjeX,
was to v,dh mod linccrcly, that such Xoblemeh might never
i'AIIiAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS^
House of Lords, Thursday, February 15, 1781.
be honoured with the direction of the naval concerns of thi^
country.
The Marquis of Rockingham followed Lord Sandwich, and
desired the Ifoufe to recollect, that the noble Lord had some
time ago expressed it as his full opinion, “ That the firit
" Lore of the Admiralty, who should ever be ^negligent as
" to permit the French to have a greater channel fleet at sea
" than that belonging to this country, ought to lose his head."
Yet notwithstanding this declaration, he had himfelf acknow
ledged, that Admiral Darby was justifiable in, returning to
port, on account only of the extreme difparity' of force that
subsisted between him and theFrench Admiral. Such w'as the
inconiiftcncy of the noble Lord's conduct; but such was alto
the temper of that House, that he was lure the, would be
deaf to such inconsistency, and resign themselves implicitly to
! every thing that was dictated by this weak and corrupt Admi
nistration. He was so much convinced of this, that he would
: very seldom trouble their Lordships again, and that he would
recommend it to his noble friend to withdraw his motion;
from the full conviction that it would produce nd fort of effect
from a set of men so cqmpleatiy predetermined.
Lord Sandwich begged pardon of itha House for troubling
them again, but he could not fuffer such mifconftrudhons to
go out into the world as had been made by the noble Marquis.
He had never said that the original force with which Admiral
Darby went out was inferior to that of the French fleet, only
that it was inferior at the time of their meeting. Admiral
:Darby left harbour with 27 fail of excellent ships, besides fri
• gates, &c. under his direction# but an accidental storm dis
abled several of them, and left him with no more force at the
time of his meeting the French fleet, but 17 fail only. This
was accident, and not imprudence; and he verily believed,
that if Admiral Darby had not been by chance Separated from<
fix fail of the line, and been obliged to leave four in port to re
pair, in consequence of the damages they had sustained in the
storm, that he would have attacked the French fleet, and that
his force would have enabled him to have done it. Admiral
Darby, he said, was as great and:gallant an Admiral as any in
the service, and he was certain he would do as much for his
4 country whenever he found an opportunity, as any man in it.
The Duke of Bolton made a Short reply, and withdrew his
motion.
House of Commons, Thursday, February rg, i,Br.
At half past fix o clock, Mr. Burke rose and moved, that the
reflations of the 6th of April, 1780, receding the influence
of the Crown, &c. should be read; his motion having been
complied with, he informed the House that he had made it,
in order to refrefh their memories with an event that had
done honour to the last Parliament; and his present object
was to give force and substance to those resolutions, and not
to fuffer them, if poflible, to remain publick monuments of
disgrace to Parliament. Influence, he admitted, was necef
, fary'in every government; but it was the influence of publick
: virtue that Ihould alone be cherished, not the influence of cor
ruption—*he latter weakened, as much as the former strength
ened, the hands of every Adminiftration^ The manner in
which he intended to give a check to that influence, which,
whilst it corrupted the senate, exhausted the resources of the
-state, he had fufficiently explained last year; and as he had
not made any alteration in his plan, it was unnecessary for
him. now to enter into an explanation of it. In times, like
the present, he thought it would be a Efficient recommenda
tion to his system, to fay, that it would be the cause of a faying
, no less than 200,000!. a year of publick money; and when it
;fhall be known, that fifty Members of Parliament would be
, freed by his plan from the (hackles of ministerial influence, he
made no doubt but he should get fapport in carrying it through
from every friend to the constitution in that House.
□economy, he observed, was at all times necessary; but it
was infinitely more so now, when we not only were actually
at war with our old enemies and old allies, but also when we
were, he feared, in danger of a war with the maritime powers
of Europe—the powers most to be dreaded by this country,
which owes its greatness to its marine ; and which has no e
nemies to fear who are not Strong at sea: A naval war, where
the other maritime states oppose us, being levelled at the very
foundation of our greatness, it was our business to make the
mod vigorous efforts, and to avail ourselves of every resource
in our power : Prodigality of our treasure could be recom
mended to us only by enemies—Economy might be our sal
vation.
Left year the voice of the people, from the North to the
South of England, cried out retrench, retrench; but unfor
tunately that voice had not been attended to; it was drown
ed in the vortex of influence and corruption : But dill the cry
ought to be renewed ; the cause which last year had made the
people raise their voice, existed (till; and as the occasion for
©economy was even more pressing now than then ; engaged as
we are in a war with Holland, retrench, retrench, Should Still
be the general cry ; every effort Should be made; every Soli
citation used in that House, to retrench the extravagant ex
penditure of the publick money : People Should not be remffs,
but Steady and watchful—fuccefs was not for the Sleepy, but
for the watchful, vigilantibus non darmientibus.
He was aware that Ministers might make this obje^ion to
his argument and to his plan: fi Last year you exerted all
your faculties in Support of your favourite system of ceconomy.
—The people, you said, was with you in every part of it; but
if we may judge by the consequences, you was greatly mif
takett; for in alb England you could not find a Single town that
would acknowledge your Services, by electing you into Parlia
ment : And though the people last year thought proper to peti
tion Parliament, they now viewed matters in a different light,
and had not deemed it necessary to sign any more petitions."
To this objeftion he made this aufwer^That it was in
part true, but in great measure falfe^lt-was true, that he had
not been able so far to recommend himfelf to his former con
stituents, as to induce them to return him again to Parliament ;
butthat Should not prevent him from doing his duty; for let
him be in what feat or Situation Providence might chufe to
place him, he wqs determined always to act unbiased, up to
what he conceived to be.for the benefit of the community at
large. But his not having been returned to Parliament sooner,
was no proof of a revolution in the minds of the people, with
respect to the object of their former petitions ; They might
have refrained from petitioning this year, merely because they 1
might have thought it decent to wait and fee-what a new Par
liament would do of its own. accord : But there was no argu
ment in this, of a political revolution in their minds, with re
fpeft to the objects of their last year's petitions : Their opini
ons on that head were just the fame—they sent deputies to
town to concert measures for attaining those objefts; and
though there was a great variety of opinions among them;l
some proposing one mode of reformation, and some another,
yet there was not a Second opinion among them about the ne
cessity of ©economy: He himfelf had been publickly called
onbythe counties of Devon and Nottingham again, to bring
forward his bill this year, though it had met with so little suc
cess in the last.
But though the people were hill so quiet, he would not ad-;
vifc Ministers to construe their silence into an approbation ofl
their measures: The people, in fact, nevertheless approved of
them ; and the deputies from the different committees fuffi
ciently Supported his assertion, by the inftru&ions they had re
ceived. Some-of them, indeed, were for measures that might
be good, but which went too far for him to give them his :
countenance ; but frill there seemed to be a determination to
obtain redress: no force, indeed, had|been used for this pur-/
pose; mid. if the wishes of the people, their grievance and'
their diftreffet could not give i/eight to d.efr petitions i n
Parliament, their Situation was not worth the trouble and
danger of having recomfe to force, to command that redrci
and relief which their representatives had refuted: but if tiri,
had hitherto eohfeientioufly refrained from violence, and
their grievences with unparalleled patience, it was a sign that
those were totally diverted of all configuration who made the
conscience and forbearance of the people an argument, why
the prayer of their petition Should not be heard.
He said, if he were Minister to a King who was indepen
dent of his people,, he could find very good reasons to urge to
his Sovereign, why he Should not (fight their complaints: His
own glory Should induce him to it. For if he wished to be
eitlier a great hero, or the father of his people, he must find
his account in eating the burdens of them, and expending the
royal treasure with an oeconomick hand ; the more ©economy
he used; the more money he would have to carry o n the vari^
ous .projects which he might think necessary to establish his
glory, either in arts or in arms; and if he wiihed to be the fa
ther of his people, he would have a happy opportunity from
©economy to Shew his tenderness for t;heir wants, by not in
creasing their taxes. No Prince who ever fat on the British
throne; had forhuch need of ceconomick Ministers as his pre-•
sent Majesty,. because none of his predecessors had ever been
blessed with so numerous an offspring ; has Majesty was happy
in them, and so was the nation ; for they were children of the
people, as well as of the Prince —but though it might be the
wish of the people that their Sovereign's progeny' Should be
provided for inamanner Suitable to their rank, and to the dig
nity of the nation that had given them birth, yet it was cer
tain, that let us get rid of the present war when and how we
could, we never Should be able to maintains or a dozen courts
in this country: to be profufe, therefore, of treasure now,
would produce this natural consequence, that royalty and did
tress must be united ; and then the world might De able to as
certain, whether reverence and.poverty can keep company.
He was heartily sorry, that last year he had been obliged to
point out the King of France as amodel, that our Ministers
Should pursue ; and they were highly to blame for having gj.
ven bad advice to a Prince, whose native goodness and great
ness of foul would have enabled him, if he had been left to
himfelf, to outrun ffie King of Fiance, of any other Monarchy
in the noble race of generosity, and love for his people ; they
were therefore enemies to his honour as well as to his crown,
when they refufed to recommend frugality in the expendi
ture of his treasures. The King of France had found in eco
nomy fufficient resources for the Support of an expensive war:
In the firft year of it, no taxes were imposed on his people;
the second year of the war had parted over without feeing
any new tax ; ^y, the third year had begun, and still no new
tax ; and he believed the King had not yet laid on even the
ordinary war taxes : Here his people felt the happiness of ha
ving a frugal Prince, and a frugal Minister: Frugality led the
Monarch to retrench from his own Splendour rather than from,
the pittance of the fubjed ;. and in the abolition offa hundred
and fx offices, he has found out a resource to carry on the
war, without laying an additional burthen 011 his people; he
has Gripped himfelf of the pageantry and foppery of royalty,
but he has equipped a navy; he has reduced the number of
his servants, but he has increased the number of his ships; he
has taken from his own personal eclat, but he has given a ma- 1
rine to his country that will immortalize his reign :—He had
not indeed been so fortunate in Commanders as in equipping
fleets ; but that was not the Prince's fault, he could find mo
ney to build ships, but he could not create the necessary qua
lities for an Admiral or a General ; he had, however, estab
lished such a marine, as France had never seen before; and
this he had done, without imposing a single tax on his people 1
They were great, they were glorious, they were formidable
under his reign, and they felt not the expences to which a na
tion must in general submit, in order to become great and for
midable. Here was glory ! heie was fame! here was a reign
that would raise the fame of Lewis the XVI. far above that of
the so much vaunted Henry the Fourth ! Lewis had firmnefs
enough to protect Mr. Neckar, a friendlefs stranger, without
family connexions to support him; who kept his place still
(for he looked upon the reports of his difrniffal to be ground
less) merely through his own merit, and the penetration of his
master to d'ifcover it, and his wisdom in rewarding it.
Here was a bright example for this country to pursue ; and,
if France was to be conquered at all, it must be by her own
weapons of ©economy and frugality. The virtue of the nation
was then in Parliament ; the wisdom of the nation was, by
proxy, within those walls: he trusted, therefore, that this
wisdom would fee the necessity of economy ; and that this
virtue would, in fprte of the efforts of corruption, place it at
the head of our treasury, to preside over our expenditure.
Without ©economy, he could fee no political exigence for us ;
prudence therefore ought to induce us to embrace it: every
man would part with his finery sooner than his coat; and
give up his desert to secure his dinner : we fliould do the
fame ; and, if we wished to preserve the dignity of our em
pire, we should now part with some of the trappings of its state.
Mr. Burke closed his speech, which had lasted one hour and
three quarters, with a motion for leave to bring in a bill to
regulate the expences of his Mzjefty's civil lift eftabliihmer.ts,
&c. just in the fame form that he moved it last year. He re
quested that the noble Lord would meet his motion manfully ;
and, if he intended to defeat the bill in the end, not to give
him the trouble to bring it in, but oppose its introduction : he
assured him, that he would not complain ifthe noble Lord:
should do so ;—that he rejected his bill without knowing its
contents, could not be the case, as it was exactly the fame
with that which had been debated last year : the noole Lord
was therefore well acquainted with its objerts, and therefore
might now fay, if the case was so, that, after mature deliber
ation,. he found it to be such as ought not to be offered to that
House, and therefore would oppose it in the very fifft stage.
M"r. Duncombe,, in a few words, which were a high panegy
rick on Mr. Burke, and contained a strong recommendation
of ©economy, seconded the motion.
Lord North confeffed that he had strong objections to the
bill ; and though there was part of it which he was ready to
adopt, yet it was so inconsiderable a part, that, as far as his 0-
pinion went, he could have no difficulty in putting his nega
tive on the motion. But he was aware that it would be high
ly indecent to oppose the introduction of a bill that had so
good a principle ; and as there were many young Members
in the House, who might not as yet have made themselves ac
quainted with the contents of the bill which had been present
ed by the Hon. Gentleman last year, and of which the present
was a copy, he thought he ought not in justice to the princi
ple of the bill, and in decency to its framer, to give it, at the
. very outset, that opposition, which, in his single opinion, as
an individual, he would do right in giving ; but he desired to
be properly understood, that his present acquiescence should
by no means be considered as an assent to the bill : be bound
himfelf to nothing ; and he should be as free to oppose the bill
hereafter, as if he had not at all acquiesced at present in its
introduction- .After the bill should have been once read, he
would wish to have it printed, as it had been last year ; and
when Gentlemen should have pcrufed, and turned the matter
in their minds, then he and they could with more propriety,
and on more proper grounds, deliver their opinions upon it
than at present.
This concluded the debate, and Hr. B&r.& then give notice,
that he proposed to being in the bill on Monday next. After
which the motion was then put, and agreed to unanimously.
The House adjourned.