The New-Jersey gazette — Burlington [N.J.], 1783-03-26 00:00:00, page 2

ture, when he conceived that ceding Gibraltar would
quiet Spain forever. Possession always gave increase
of delire for more, and some degree of acquisition
excited to the attainment of greater, especially where
acquisition was to be had in the manner alluded to.
" if Gibraltar was to be parted with, let it be done
by way of bargain for something better, or some
thing as valuable to us, but do not throw away so
.important a post upon a speculative philosophical
idea, at once irrat onal and absurd." Mr. Fox ad
verted to the reports of large voluntary gifts to go
vernment, by private individuals ; he said, he ad
mitted and admired the pubiick spirit and genero
sity of the perlons who made the offers, nor did he
blame government for accepting them, but he beg
ged leave to lay in his protect against their legality.
He conceived, that according to our confutation,
no money could be received by the executive branch,
and applied to the publics purposes of the nation,
whi I; did not paG through the hands of parliament,
and had not the fan&ion of the commons of Eng
land. Towards the close of his speech, he observed,
that the present speech, instead of being too gene
ral, was too full of profeffions ; hence he took occa
sion to fay, that some good might be expected from
the present ministry, Since the man, of whom he
entertained the suspicions he had avowed, was all
profession by long habits, and therefore what he
might profefs, without any intention of fulfilling, his
colleagues, of whose sincerity he had a better opi
nion, would hold themselves bound in honour to
fee performed. Mr. Fox also spoke in reply to va
rious other parts of Mr. Banker's speech, and to
different padages of the address, with his customary
power and accutenefs as a close and brilliant rea
soner, but declared he Should neither oppose the ad
dress, nor offer an amendment.
Governor Johnftone replied to Mr. Fox: he de
clared, that to him as a plain man, not pretending
to eloquence, what the honourable gentleman had
said appeared to be a heap of contradictions. He
was for giving up independency without reserve and
for nothing to America; but when he came to talk
of a general peace, he would allow no facrifice, how
ever inadequate to the value of the exchange to be
made. The governor Severely reprobated the idea
of Mr. Fox's avowing his having granted indepen
dency, without the concurrence of that houic, arid
especially as it was fitting at the time; and so far
from agreeing that his majesty's expreflion of per
sonal reluctance at being forced into the meaiure,
was a fit fubjeCt of objection: he alked how that
prince was to be formed, who with Inch a nume
rous family as that of our fovercign, could bear to
part so large a portion of the possessions cf the
crown, without extreme sorrow and concern. The
governor said, he never thought himfelf warranted
to difenfs what he did know the extent of, but he
wished to hear what the terms called provisional,
were, and how far they exposed our trade to Ame
rican cruizers. He greatly applauded governor El
liot, but he was not content to praise lord Howe io
highly, as there had been mistakes committed in the
Mediterranean, that called for explanation. He
pointed out two in particular, and said, ii he flood
alone, he would persist in maintaining that there
was not ground for such extravagant praise, and that
the 27th of July, and 20th of October, were both
inglorious days for this country.
Mr. Secretary Townfhend laid, the mover and
fcconder of the address had so well and so ably sup
ported it, that there remained nothing tor him to
add, nor did it therefore need the very Strong lup
port, which he considered it to have received from
his honourable friend over the way, if he would kill
permit him to call him so. The lecretary defended
lord Howe, and laid, though he could not ditcufs
the minutiae of the affair, from not being a profedi
onal man, he was persuaded, by the concurrent
voice of his whole fleet, and the opinion of our ene
mies, that the noble lord acted with singular Skill
and bravery. Mr. Townfhend also took occasion
to notice the unjust suspicions of the linearity of a
noble earl then in high office, that noble earl's con
duct had been uniformly and invariably confident ;
he thought it therefore very hard that unauthenti
cated and unsupported suspicions should prevail, and
added, that they had made the negociation for peace
more difficult than it otherwise would have been.
Mr. Fox rose again, and said, if the suspicions of
the earl of Shelburne's sincerity rendered the nego
ciation difficult, it was a Itrong reason why he was
an improper person to negociate. The honourable
secretary had declared, that from every thing he had
seen, he was confident, the noble earl was confident
and uniform. Was he lure he had seen all? When
he was in office, he declared, he had not leen all.
Mr. Keith Stuart explained in what manner the
firft transports had passed Gibraltar, and declared, that
the noble lord at the head of the fleet had done his
utmost to bring the enemy to battle.
Governor Johnftone again rose, and Shewed, that
he had personally ascribed no fault to lord Howe,
but had Gated two mistakes. Were there those
mistakes or not ?—No answer.
Lord North spoke next, and in a Short exordium,
apologized for his rising to make a few observations
on what had fallen in the course of the day's debate,
as well as upon the speech and the address. His
lordship said, he meant not to find fault with the speech,
to object to the address, nor to propose any amend
ment: on the contrary, that any amendment that
might have been proposed, mart have been very im
portant, indeed, to have met with his concurrence
and support, and that, because, considering the pur
port of the speech, to convey an information to par
liament, that his majesty was engaged in a treaty
for peace, already far advanced; but that neverthe
less, in case of France's making any improper, un
just, or unreafonabie demands of concession from
Great- Britain, it was his royal intention, with their
afiillance, to carry on the war in the most vigorous
manner, he thought it a matter of consequence, and
infinitely superior to every other consideration, for
that house to go to the feet of the throne unani
mously with an address, prefling, in the most expli
cit terms, their zeal for the honour of his majesty,
for, the dignity of his crown, and the just rights of
his people, and declaring, without reserve, their
readme's to lupport his majesty with their lives and
fortunes in the prosecution of the war, unless such
a fafe and honourable peace could be obtained, as
this country had an undoubted right to expect, un
der the circumstances in which She then Good. That
his majesty's ministers had proceeded some length in
a negociation for peace, was a matter, which, in a
general point of view, gave him the highest Satis
faction, his lordship said, he made no fciuple to ac
knowledge; peace, lie knew enough of the affairs
of the country, to be aware, was a matter earnestly
to be fought after, and well worth attainment ; as
far therefore as his majesty's ministers turned their
attention towards an object of so much importance,
without meaning to court their favour, he assured
them, they should have his support, and he thought
every man, who really wished well to his country,
ought at such a crisis, to use his utmost, to ftrenghten
the hands of government, to forward their efforts,
and to render their aims effectual. In the moment,
however, that a speedy peace was, and must be the
general with of that house, he begged leave to re
mind them that we were in a state of actual war,
and that every proceeding of parliament, however,
directed towards the furtherance of a treaty of pa
cification, ought to be grounded on the circum
stance of our being yet at war, iince the only pro
bable means of bringing that war to a fafe, a happy,
and an honourable issue, was to assure his majesty,
and by that assurance to convince the world, that
the parliament of Great-Britain were determined to
stand by their fovercign, and support nim at all ha
zards sooner than accede to any terms of pacifica
tion, that were in the least degree disgraceful or dif
honourable. With regard to the provisional articles,
that had been agreed upon with America, his lord
ship said, the matter did not appear to him altoge
ther in the fame point of view, in which it was evi
dent it had Struck others. It put us not into any
precise situation either of war or peace, which to
him was neither very agreeable nor very anipicious.
An honourable gentleman, who had Spoken early
in the debate, had said, that the acceding to the
provisional terms took America off our hands, and
left us but three powers, France, Spain, and Hol
land, to contend with. He wished sincerely, that
such might prove to be the fact ; but he could not
regard it as extremely probable. Impossible as it
was fur him to enter upon a difeuffion of terms, with
the nature and extent of which his majesty's mini
sters had not acquainted the house, he could not ar
gue in what manner America could be considered
as no longer engaged in a war with us, when She de
clared, the could make no definitive peace, till France
had agreed upon the terms; he was in hopes his
majesty's ministers had procecded with a treaty for a
general peace ; as that was not the case, he feared
this country had tied herfelf down to make a con
cession of considerable importance, whenever the war
Should be brought to a conclusion, without having
any equivalent concession on the part cf any other
of the belligerent powers with whom Great-Britain
was engaged in hostilities. A matter far different in
his idea from the description given it, by the honour
able gentleman to whom he had alluded, who had
called the acknowledgment of the independence of
America a matter little Short of a present peace with
America. His lordship observed, that the honour
able gentleman had complained of the address for
the personal reluctance which it spoke in his majes
ty: on account of his avowal of the independence
of America, and another honourable gentleman
behind him, had laid that monarch mult be very
extraordinarily formed, who could at once have for
gotten his heirs and his family, and parted with so
capital a portion of his empire without compunction
and Sorrow. He law the matter, his lordship pro
tefted,in a light extremely different from that in which
it had Struck both these gentlemen, lie agreed not by
any means with the construction put upon the part of
the adareSs in quellion, by the firft gentleman who
had noticed it ; America was not only one of the
brightest and moil Splendid jewels in his majesty's
crown, but a possession the most important, the most
ufeful, and the most beneficial of any belonging to
Great Britain. His majesty, therefore, could never
think of agreeing to the dismemberment of so consi
derable and lo valuable a part of his dominions, but
with the deepest regret and the Sincerest sorrow: nor
was that Sorrow, as the honourable gentleman behind
him had conceived, excited by any personal or fa
mily feelings, though no man living had a mere fa
therly affection for his children, a true love of his
family, pr more of the purest spirits of humanity
about him, than the Sovereign of thefc realms, nor
had any man greater reason to rejoice in his dome-.
Stick happiness ; but bis majesty's sorrow, he was
persuaded, sprung from a nobler and a more disinte
rested source. His Majesty felt, like a patriot king,
he felt for his people ! he regretted the loss of Ame
rica as the loss of his Subjects, and, without the
fmallcft concern for his own personal mortification,
his feelings were actuated solely by a regard for their
interests, and a regret for the severe misfortune bis
people had fullered by so capital a calamity !
Considering his majesty's sorrow, in that point of
view, and in no other his lordship contended, could
it be jiiftly considered, it was consonant with the
general tenor of bis majesty's conduct, which had
been uniformly parental to his people, and tender
to all their dillrefics. Before he left the Situation
which he had for some time had the honour to hold
in his majesty's councils, he had not, he owned,
thought he Should be able to bring the war to a con
clusion, without giving up the independence of Ame
rica, bat hi had always regarded the concession of it
in a very different light, from that in Which it had
been described by the honourable gentleman whofe
conded the address. The honourable gentleman had
declared, that this country gave up nothing, when
they conceded the independence of America, but
what America was already in possession of, and had
obtained by the power of their .arms. He, for his
part, thought the Solemn avowal of that indepen
dence, on the part of Great-Britain, a very melan
choly, a very serious, and a very important matter;
and he hoped when the time came, that the provi
sional terms, upon which it had been conceded,
were laid before parliament, it would appear that
administration had taken care to mark out proper
boundaries, agreed upon between Great-Britain and
America, so that this country might derive some ad
vantages from her remaining poffeflions on the Ame
rican continent. Charleftown, Savannah, and New-
York, he took it for granted, were already evacu
ated ; care ought therefore to be taken, to prevent
the American army from turning its force upon
Canada, and if we had tied ourselves down to cer
tain terms tending towards a peace with America,
he hoped fofriething had been done to prevent our
having granted more than we obtained, or giving
away what we Should find we ought not to have
parted with. With regard to the enormous Size of
the national debt, undoubtedly it was an object wor
thy of attention, and the sooner it was lessened the
better; but no debt, no distress ought to induce us
to accede to a peace, the terms of which were un
reasonable or improper in our present situation. It
had, he knew, been hinted, that France had made
exorbitant and unjust demands. In negociating
peace, it behoved ministers not merely to look at our
own diftrefles; they ought to examine and compare
.the refpedive Situations of each country, and from
a view of the whole, and a well-digested balance of
the state of each, to form the grounds of treaty. The
success of the last campaign had been great and glo
rious; it was now evident we were nearly, if not
quite upon a footing with the enemy at sea every
where.
Without entering minutely into the difeuffion of
the conduct of the noble lord lately sent into the Me
diterranean, considering the spirit and bravery of the
French and Spanish officers and men, it was evident
that the Spanifli Ships had some internal weakness or
defeat, or a Superior force of such enemies would ne
ver have avoided battle with one that was inferior.
Spain, every body knew, was driven to the last ex
tremity to raise Supplies. America had no money ;
She had tried the paper Scheme till it had died away,
and proved of no avail ; She had at last beer, driven
to the only probable resource, and attempted to raise
money by taxes ; that attempt had wholly failed,
and France was herfelf greatly distressed indeed. Hol
land had proved an inconsiderable enemy, nor was
Holland likely to do us much serious mifehief.
All these circumstances, therefore, were matters
to be taken into the consideration of our ministers,
and they were to aSk tbemfelves, had France a right
to be unreasonable, or was a power, on whom all
the expences of continuing the war must rest, if it
were continued, to be gratified with terms She had
no right whatever to demand, and such as were nei
ther necetfary nor honourable in us to concede ? With
refped to Gibraltar, he was not one of those who
thought it beyond all price. There certainly might
be a bargain, made worth its value, but there would
be infinite difficulty in ascertaining an equivalent.
It was of more value to Spain than to us, and if
fold, it ought to be well paid for. It had been proved
to be impregnable. In that quality, therefore, no
thing that could be given in exchange could be found
equal to it. It was confeffedly the firft object of the
king of Spain, who would fcarceiy think any thing
too much for its purchase. If it was to come to mar
ket therefore, these fadts should be regarded, and
never loft fight of. We should recollect also, how
we flood on the Score of loss and acquisition by the
war. France had taken some of our inlands, and we
had got the whole of the Newfoundland fishery and
the island of St. Lucia , an island in the eyes of France,
of more importance than all the rest of the Weil-In
dia islands put together. He did not imagine, his
lordship said, that France would make peace pn the
terms of uti poffidetis, but he infilled upon it, that
after a fuccefsful campaign, and after obtaining great
er advantages, than we had gained the whole war,
we ought not to give way to any unreafonablc de