The Pennsylvania packet, or, The general advertiser — Lancaster, Pa.;Philadelphia, Pa., 1778-03-09 00:00:00, page 2

I, ONDO i; December fr
Abftrad of the Debates in the House of
Commons, on Wednesday.
CT-! H E House having formed itfelf into a
£ Committee of Supply, Lord Darrington
read the estimates of the last year, and made a
r> otton for 20,000 additional troops for the ier
v:ce of 1778. He /aid that there was hme
small difference in the real pav of his Majesty s
troops on the British and frith ettabliihments,
v Inch had for a long time palled unnoticed,
lecaufe the pay Was nominally the fame. But,
Hays he, a very worthy, ingenious, and accu
rate gentleman, ofihe Irish House of Commons,
dhcoveicd the difference, and demenftrated that
the pav of the IHh troops was one twelfth less
than che British. The noble Loid then be
come the biographer of Mr. Barry, and obliged
the Home witn a clear, ciicumftantiah and ac
curate account of the pedigree, connections,
&c. &c. of the worthy gentleman, hut friend.
Colonel Barry requeued of the noble Lord,
that, previous to the investigation of rne new
vote ®F troops, he would be pleated to inform
the committee, what number of British troops
wrote now actually engaged in the campaign in
America. ,
Lord Barrington answered, that no particu
lar and diffinc' return had been received of a
later date than July, so that he could not, with
^ny^erree f precihon, afeertain the numbers
now employed, nor inform the House of the
dhtindt d'fpofitions of the army. The Several
battles fought since that ti ne had neceffaraly
\tdcen from the number in the returns, and the
difFerennneceffities of the campaign had fixed
them in new fituatidns; that, however, he
could fav, with certainty, that at that time
there were-35,095 effective men in America;
20,000 of which were under the command of
Sir William Howe, and he believed failed with
b^n, and landed at the head of the Elke ; 13,000
were under the command of General Burgoyne*,
and 4000, all but 200, left under the com
mand of General Carleton, in Canada; the re
mainder were indifferent situations, in Nova-
Scotia, New-York, &c.
Mr.Binfoa/n said, that he should be glad to
mention a citcumftance which occurred to him,
on a certain noble Lord's ebferving, the night
, before,:.that General Howe always attacked Ge
.neralWafhington with an inferior force 1 should
be glad to know; laid he, whether the 20,0(0
men,which are now laid to have landed with Gt
neral Howe, are inferior to the number of 15,000
men, which has been stated to be under the
command of General Wafhmgton. It is ^ fact
that the noUe Lord yesterday represented the
number of our army to be 13,^00 men, and
the number of General Walhington's to be
35,000. It appeared extremely inconsistent to
him that General Howe should attack an army
of 15,000, with only 13,000 men, when the
number of his army was actually 20,900. This
was acircumftance, he concluded, that requi
red inveftigati®n, and he called on che noble
Lord in question to explain it.
Lord George Germaine answered, that the
question was certainly pertinent and proper,
and that he should readily answer it. He ac
kowledged it was true he had stated the army
under General Howe to be 13,000 men, and
that of General Wallington's to be 15,000
men, andydid so still ; but then he neither in
cluded in< that number the artillery, officers,
or wounded soldiers. He only spoke of 13000
men with arms on their shoulders ; 13,000 ef
fective men engaged n battle, and that con
quered 15,000.
Colonel Barre exprefled the greatest furprize at
the reply of the noble Lord—He never heard
so barefaced, palpable, mean a quibble in his
/rife. Never, he said, did he hear a soldier so
<expry£s : himfelf; never, he was convinced, did
a Minister of War obtrude on the House of
Commons rich an assertion : —lt is deserving
of remembrance, and promise the noble Lords,
fays he, it&)l be remembered. What, con
tinues the Colonel, exclude from the lift ofthe
army the officers and artillery, because they do
not carry firelocks ? Are not the officers con
cerned in the battle? Are not the artillery ? Do
they nothing towards cunqueft ? The noble
Lord may have partial experience on his fide,
perhaps, to prove such doQrine; but I'll pro
mife h<m, it would be very ungracious to a Bri
tish audience, and would gain little crediteven
in a demeftic circle. The Colonel then called
upon the noble Lord to declare upon his ho
nour, what was become of General Burgoyne
and his brave troops; and whether or not he
had not received expresses from Quebec, inform
ing him of his having surrendered himfelf, with
his whole army prisoners of war.
Lord George Germaine said in answer, that he
was ever ready to give to the House the molt
early and authentic intelligence of any tranf
adfions within his knowledge ; and now, tho
the recital must give him pain, he knew it to
be his duty to inform the House, that he had,
indeed, received expresses from Quebec, with a
piece of very unhappy intelligence, which, how
ever, was not authenticated, and he could not
declare it officially : It had been sent from Ti
conderoga to Quebec, and had come to I icon
deroga by the oral reports of deserters. Ihe
tidings were, that Gen ral Burgoyne and his
army were surrounded by a force greatly lupe
rior---cht off born frefh fupplics of provisions,
md unable to pierce through the numbers of the
enemy--so situated, he had been forced to ca
pitulate, and had surrendered himfelf and ids
army piloners of war. Such, he said, was the
tenor of his expresses. It was a most unwel
come, and a most unfortunate affair; but, how
ever, he hoped, the House would not be over
anxious in condemnation, nor decide on the
propriety or impropriety of the concerted plan
that led to this unhappy event. He hoped they
would suspend their judgments both on the eon
duff of the Gencial and of the Minister on 70s
occasion. He hoped the conduct of both would
appear free from guilt. For his part, he de
clared' he was ready to submit his conduct in
planning the expedition to the judgment of the
Houle If it appeared impotent, weak and in
jurious, let the censure of the House fall upon
him—He was ready to abide it; as every Mi
nister, who regards the welfare of his country,
ought at all times to have his conduct scruti
nized by his country.
Colonel Barre role again, and in a most ani
mated, severe manner, reprehended the noble
Lord He declared he was shocked at the cool,
easy manner in which he related the fate of the
brave Burgoyne. He was more so at the affur
anee of insinuating, that a portion of the blame
might lie at the door of the General. Was
there, he exclaimed, a man in the House who
in his heart could fay, that Burgoyne had fail
ed through his own mifconduT f That he had
shewn the lead sign of cowardice, the least
symptom of neglelt in the expedition he was
thrust into? He was certain, there were none
would fay so. But every man would fay, or at
least every man would think, that the man who
planned the expedition was to blame. The Mi-,
nifter alone who concerted the Jcheme, is ob
noxious W) reprehension for its failure, It w^
an inconfylent scheme, an impracticable one un
worthy of a British Minister, and rather too
absurd for an indian Chief. Remember how
frequently, how earnestly, and fineerel^ I have
warned, fays he, the Minister of the effects of
this plan. I forefaw the consequences. I fore
told the event. It was laid 1 spoke in prophecy ;
has not my prophecy come to pass? But in
what terms can 1 express my surprise at the
bravery, my indignation at the effrontery of the
noble Lord, in declaring he will abide the cen
sure of this House, and submit his conduit to
their eye. Does the noble Lord know the ex
tent of his criminality? Does he know the re
sentments of this House? I believe he knows
neither ; but how loon he may it is not for me
to determine.
I would beg leave, continues he, to call the
attention of the Committee to the conduit of
the Americans. I hey have been branded in
this House with every opprobrious epithet that
meanness could invent; termed cowardly and
inhuman. Let us mark the proof. They have
obliged as brave a General as ever commanded
a body of British troops, to furiender. Such is
their cowardice ; and initead of throwing chains
upon these troops, they have nobly given them
their freedom ; such is their inhumanity. I only
wish, from this tingle circumstance, to draw
this fair conclusion, that inflead of being en
gaged with a set of lawless, desperate adven
turers, we find them, by experience, to be men
cf the most exalted sentiments; inspired by that
Genius of Liberty which is the nobles emotion
of the House, which it is impossible to conquer,
impracticable to dismiss.
Honourable fames Luttrel. I find myfelf un
der a necessity of requeuing the indulgence of
the House for a few minutes, because ! think;
it my duty to take every opportunity of repeat
ng my abhorrence of the mercenary arid savage
principles cf a civil war, which has never yet
held out constitutional terms of peace to be its
object ; and as i do conceive, that whilst un
conditional fubmhlfm is the language of the
Miniflers and Parliament, all efforts to conquer
America, must prove in vain; I cannot agree
to vote away the lives and properties of mv tel
low fubje&s, merely for the purpose of enrich
ing and aggrandizing a few favourites and flat
terers placed near the throne.
Fhe An,ericans, it is evident, will not give
up their liberties ; they will die firh ; all the
eloquence of a Cicero cannot persuade us, that
the unfortunate, misled Burgo; ne is victorious ;
that General Clinton is in desirable fafety; or
juKly give the boasted title of conqueror of Ame
rica to Sir William Howe, yet tne latter ,s re
presented with a great and powerful army in
the field ; he wants neither for money, nor
Ihips, nor troops; he wants but the only one
necessary article for consolation in defeat, or
permanency and advantage in vi&ory 1 mean
a just cause ; and Great-Britairi never, never
can build up fame or dignity to itfelf, upon alts
of injustice and oyprefiion.
But Ministers have hopes of important feccefs.
I Sir, that language ou^ht at lead to imp y, fom^
honest, wife Amer cans, may, upon found
principles, be induced to return to their alle
giance; bui is there a gentleman in this House
that would candidl; acquit the abettors of un
conditional submission, of deserving the slavery
you endeavour to yoke them with ? Is it to ob
tain such a humiliating end, that the American
now consoles himfelf for the loss of a father^
friend, or brother, who fell in the battle ? No,
Sir, it was for liberty they fought, for liberty
they died; that only can repay the loss, and
obtain f^rgivenefs of the murder.
The Revolution which brought the present
family to the throne, was obtained by men Ji
refolded; our Magna Charta was obtained by
men so refolded; and the Americans have not
proved themselves left deserving of their liber
ties, than those Britons: An American Mag
na Charta is what they wifely contend for; nt
a Magna Charta to be taxed by Grangers, a
thousand leagues diltanr. But the constitution
of this country, if in perfection, if uncontro
verted by bribery, and abuse of power, is ac
knowledged to be one of the happiest that men
can live under ; theiefore, I do believe, that
many wife and honest Americans may, upon
found principles, prefer it to any new inventi
on of their own. I do not fay the Congress
would, nor yet many cf their ambitious lead
ers, nor yet perhaps the virtuous Washington ;
but if confbtutional freedom was secured to
America, every victory might then gain over
some worthy friends to our cause, inflead of
cowardly deserters, deceitful spies, or falfe and
dangerous pilots.
But Ministers tell us that England is rich,
and Foreigners may be hired to carry on the
war ; what, Briton would give up his laurels
to those paltry hirelings, and save our blood.
Sir, if honour called to arms, what Minister
dare to propose it? Neither are Germans as
cheap as is pretended, for you must now pay
their hire, and when the war is at an end, you
must likewise pay a large additional sum for all
those who do not return home. Sir, Ido not
think the Germans will return, for I must pay
the compliment to these Miniffers, that 1 do
believe, even they are incapable of making
such a conflitution for America, that the Ger
mans shall fly from it to better themselves, by
returning to their own native, infamous sham
bles, to be again fold by their tyrannical, pet
ty Princes.
But our important hope is to be gratified by the
pofleffion cf Philadelphia. Sir, that town was
built for peace and trade, not for war. It ex
tends itfelf upon a low, flat country, with
scarce one advantageous spot of ground to
place a single gun on for its defence; there
fore to surround it with great v orks to fecute
yourselves in winter quarters, must create an
imiuenfe expence, besides the lateness of the