The Pennsylvania packet, or, The general advertiser — Lancaster, Pa.;Philadelphia, Pa., 1783-03-13 00:00:00, page 3

fee. His speech bad been said to favour of despon
dency. He nevertheless, did now assure the house, it
did not Come up to his real feelings upon the fubjeft,
nor h-d he thought it possible that all the exertion,
reven of the prefect naval administration, could so
soon ha^e recovered our marine. All that the ho
nourable gentleman who Seconded the address, had
said in pahegy>ick of lord Howe, had pleased him, and
had ple rfed every body who heard it. The house, he
was convinced, could have lifienea to the honourable
gentleman, on such a theme, forever, but how was
his joy damped, what a gloom had been call over his
mind, by what had dropped from he honourable gen
tleman immediately afterwards? Was he to Under-
Rand that Gibraltar was to be gsven up? There
might be possible Situations of this country where the
parting with that important, that valuable possession,
would be juftifiable. But was the present one of those
Situations? The honourable gentleman, for whom he
proft ffed the bigheft personal refped, must be a fhal
low politician indeed, if lie imagined that because
Spain had lately found Gibraltar impregnable, the
would rover more attempt its capture . Had the late
ministry left off pursuing the fruitlefs and fatal Ame
rican war, because they found the conquest of Ame
rica impracticable the very firft campaign? The ho
nourable gentleman seemed to have no idea of the am
bition, the avarice and the absurdity of human nature,
when he conceived that ceding Gibraltar would quiet
Spain forever. Pofftffion always gave increase cl de
sire for more, and some degree of acquisition excited
to the attainment of greater, especially where acqui
firion was to be had m the manner alluded to. " ff
Gibraltar was to be parted with, let it be done by
way of bargain for Something better, or Something as
valuable to us, but do not throw away so important
a port upon a Speculative p: ilofophica; idea, at ome
irrational and absurd." Mr. Fox adverted to the re
ports of large voluntary gifts to government, by pri
vate individuals ; he said, he admitted and admired
the public Spirit and grnerofi y of the perfbns who
made the offers, nor did he blame government for ac
cepting tiem, but he begged leave to lay in his pro
test against their legality. He conceived, that accord
ing to our conflitution, no money could be received
by the executive branch, and applied to the public
purposes of the nation, which did not pass through
the hands of parliament, and had not the fanHion of
the commons of England. Towards the close of his
Speech, he observed, that the present Speech, ioftead
of being too general, was too full of profeffions;
hence he took occasion to fay, that fume good might
be expeHed from the present ministry, Since the man,
of whom be entertained the suspicions he had avowed,
was all p r ofeffion by long habits, and therefore what
he might profefs without any intention of fulfilling,
his colleagues, of whose Sincerity he had a better opi
nion, would hold themselves bound in honour to tee
performed. Mr. Fox also Spoke in reply to various
other par's of Mr. Basket's Speech,and to different
passages of the address, with his customary power and
acuteness as a close and brilliant reasoner, but de
clared he Should neither oppose the address, nor offer
an amendment.
Governor Johnftone replied to Mr. Fox ; he declar
ed, that to him as a plain man, not pretending to elo
queece, what the honou^ble gentlemen had said ap
peared to be a heap of contradictions. Be was for
giving up independency without reserve and for no
thing to America ; but when he came to talk of a ge
neral peace, he would allow no Sacrifice, however in
adequate to the value of the exchange to be made.
The governor Severely reprobated the idea of Me.
Fox's avowing his having granted independency, with
out the concurrence of that house, and especially as it
was fitting at the time ; and so far from agreeing that
his majelly's expression of p-rfonal reluctance at be
ing forced into the measure, was a fit fubjeß of objec
tion : he asked how that prince was to be formed, who
with such a numerous family as that of our Sovereigns
could bear to part so large a portion of the possessions
of the crown, without extreme sorrow and concern.
The governor said, he never thought himfelf warrant
ed to diCcufs what he did know th^extent of, but he
wished to hear what the terms called provisional, were,
and how far they exposed our trade to American crui
zers. He greatly applauded governor Elliott, but he
was not content to praise lord Howe so highly, as
there bad been miflakes committed in the Mediterra
nean, that called for explanation. He pointed out
two in particular, and said, if lie flood alone, he would
persist in maintaining that there was not ground for
such extravagant praise, and that the 27th of July,
and 20th of Oflßber, were both most inglorious days
for this country.
Mr. Secretary Townfhend said, the mover and Se
conder of the address had so well and foably Support
ed it, that there remained nothing for him to add, nor
did it therefore need the very Brong Support, which
he considered it to have received from his honourable
friend over the way, if he would Bill permit him to
<a , him so, The fccretary defended lord Howe, and
said t,;° u ^h ' ie could not ddcufs the minutiae of the
affai'r, frbm ;: ot being a profeffional man, he was per
fuaded by the concurrent voice of his wlole fleet, and
the opinion of our enemies, that the noble lord afted
with Singular skill and bravery. Mr. Townfhend al
so took occasion to notice the unjufl suspicions of the
Sincerity ofa noble earl then in high office, that noble
carl's conduH had been uniformly and invariably con
fiflent ; he thought it therefore very hard that unau
tbentic'ated and unsupported suspicions Should prevail,
and added, that they had made the negotiation for
peace more difficult than it otherwise would have
been.
Mr. Fox rose again, and said, if the suspicions of
the earl of Shelburne's Sincerity rendered the negocia
cion difficult, it was a strong reason why he was an
improper person to negociate. The honourable Secre
tary had declared, that from every thing he had Seen,
he was confident, the noble earl was confident and uni
form. Was he sure be had Seen all? Wi,en he was in
office, he declared, he had not Seen all.
Mr. Keith Stuart explained in what manner the
firft transports passed Gibraltar, and declared, that the
noble lord at the head of the fleet had done his utmost
to bring the enemy to battle,
Governor Johnftone again rose, and Shewed, that he
had personally ascribed no fault to lord Howe, but had
Hated two mistakes. Were there those mistakes or
not ?—No answer.
Lord North spoke next, and in a Short exordium,
derable and so valuable a part of his diminirn., but
fyith tne deepest regret and the sincerest furrow : nor
was that sorrow, as the honourable gentleman bebiid'
him had conceived, excited by any personal or fami
ly feelings, though no man living had a ma'-e father
ly affection for his children, a truer lore of h, family,
or more of the pored spirits of humanity about him,
than the sovereign of these realms, nor had any man
greater reason to rejoice in his domeflic happiness : but
his majesty's sorrow, he was perfuad d, sprung ft m
a nobler and a more difintere fird fourcet Hismajef
ty felt, like a patriot king,—he felt for iris people !
he regretted the loss of America as the lots of his
fubjeCh, and, without the Imalbf lconcern for his
apologized for his rising to make a few observations on
what had fallen in the course of the day's debate, as
well as upon the Speech and the address His lordship
said, he meant not find fault with the Speech, to obje&
to the address, nor to propose any amendment ; on the
contrary, that any amendment tnat might have been
proposed, must have been very important, indeed, to
have met with his concurrence and Support, and that,
because, considering the purport of the Speech, to con
vey an information to parliament, that his majefly
was engaged in a treaty for peace, already far advanc
ed, but that nevertheless, in case of France's making
any improper, unjust, or unreasonable demands of
concession from Great-Britain, it was his royal inten
tion, with their a ffiftance, to carry on the war in the
most vigorous manner, he thought it a matter of con-
Sequence, and infinitely Superior to every other consi
deration, for that house to go to the feet of the throne
unanimously with an address, profeffing in the most
explicit terms their zeal for the honour of ids majef
ty, for the dignity of his crown, and the just rights
of his people, and declaring, without reserve, their
readiness to Support his majefly with their lives and
fortunes iu<he prosecution of the war, unless such a
Safe and honourable peace Could be obtained, as this
country had an undoubted right to expeff, under the
circumstances in which She then flood. That his mi
jefly's ministers had proceeded some length in a nego
ciation for peace, was a matter, which, in a general
point of view, gave him the bigheft fatisfaHion, his
lordship said, he made no Scruple to acknowledge ;
peace, he knew enough of the affairs of the country,
to be aware, was a matter earnestly to besought after,
and well worth attainment ; as far therefore as his
majesty's ministers turned their attention towards an
objeff of so much importance, without meaning to
court their favour, he assured them, they Should have
hi: Support, and he thought, every man, who really
wished well to his country, ought at Such a crisis, to
do his utmost, to Strengthen the hands of government,
to forward their efforts, and to render their aims effec
tual. In ihe moment, however, that a fpeedypeace was,
and must be the general with of that house, he begged
leave to remind them that we were in a Bate of adual
war, and that every proceding of parliament, howe
ver. direßed towards the furtherance or a treaty of
pacification, ought to be grounded on the circumilance
of our being yet at war, since the only probable means
of bringing that war to afa fe, a happy, and an ho
nourable issue, was to assure his majefly, and by that
assurance to convince the world, that the parliament
of Great-Britain were determined to fiard by their
Sovereign, and Support him at all hazards Sooner than
accede to any terms of pacification, that were in the
least degree disgraceful or difhonourabi'e. With re
gard to the provisional articles, that had been agreed
upon with America, his lordship said, the matter did
not appear to him altogether in the fame point of
view, in which it was evident it had flruck others.
It put us not into any pr^cife fituafion either of war
or pe^ce, which to him was neither very agreeable,
nor very auspicious.
An honourable gentleman, who had Spoken early
in the debate, had said. that the acceding to the pro
visional terms took Amrica off our hands, and left
us but three powers, France. Spain, and Holland,
to contend with. He wished flneerely that such might
prove to be the sass; but he could not regard it as
extremely probable. Impossible as it was for him to
enter upon a difeuffion of te ms, with the nature and
extent of which his majesty's ministers had not ac
quainted the house, he could not argue io what mn
ner America could be considered as no longer engag
ed in a war with us, when she declared, the could
make no definitive peace, till France had agreed up
on the terms ; he was in hopes his majesty's ministers
had proceeded with a treaty for a general peace ; as
that was not the case, lie feared this country had ti
ed her^lfdown to make a concession of configurable
importance. Whenever the war should be br >ughi to a
conclusion without having any equivalent concession
on the part of any other o' the belligerent powers
with whom Great Britain was engaged in hostilities.
A matter far different in his idea from the defcripti
on given it, by the honourable gentleman to whom
he had alluded, who had called the acknowledgment
of the independence of Amer ca a matter little thort
of a present peace with Afaerica. His lordship observ
ed. that the honourable gentleman had complained of
the address for the personal reluctance which it spoke
in hi' majefly: on account of his avowal of the inde
pendence of America, and another honourable gen
tleman behind him, had said that monarch mud have
very extraordinarily formed, who could at once have
forgotten his heirs and his fami y, and parted with so
capital a portion of his empire without compunfton
and sorrow. He saw the matter his lordship pro:eft
ed, in a light extremely different from that in which
it had firuck both these gentlemen. He agreed not
by any means with the conftruflion put upon the part
of the address in question, by the firft genihman who
had noticed it; America was not ony one of <he
brighter and most iplendrd jewels in his majrtly%
crown, but a possession the most important, the mod
ufeful, and the most beneficial of any belonging to
Great-Britain. Hi majefly, therefore, could never
think of agreeing to the dismemberment of so confi
own personal mortification, his feelings were actuated
solely by a regard for their imerefU, and a regret
for the severe mi fortune his people had* fuffered by to
capital a calamity!
Conflicting his majesty's sorrow, in that point of
view, and in no other his lordship contended, con'd it
be justly considered, it *vas confobant with the general
tenor of his majesty's conduct, which bad been uni
formly parental to his people, and tender to all their
distresses. Before he left the situation which he had
for feme time had the honour to hold in his majesty's
Without entering minutely into the difeuf
fion of the conduct of the noble lord lately sent
into the Mediterranean, considering the fpiric
and bravery of the French and Spanish officers
and men, it was evident that the Spanish flrips
had some internal weakness or defeat, or a Su
perior force of fuels enemies would never have
avoided battle with one that was inferior.
Spain, every body knew, was driven to the last
extremity to raise fopplies. America had no
money : she had tried the paper scheme till it
had died away, and proved of no avail: she
had at last been driven to the only probable re>
source, and attempted to raise money by taxes;
that attempt had wholly failed, and France
was herfelf greatly dutrefled inded. Holland
had proved an inconsiderable enemy, nor was
Holland likely to do us much serious mifchiefv
All these circumfiances, therefore, were mat
ters ^0 be taken into the confiderati^n as our
ministers, and the, were to aft themfelvfe, had
France a right to be unreasonable, or was a pow
er, on whom all the expences of continuing the
war must rest, if it were continued, to be grati
fied with terms she had no right whatever to de
mand, and such as were neither necefiary nor
honourable in us to concede ? With relpeft to
Gibraltar, he was not one of those who thought
it beyend all price. There certainly might be
a bargain made worth its value, but thete would
be infinite difficulty in ascertaining an equivar
lent. It was of more value to Spain than to
us, and if fold, it ought to be well paid for. It;
had been proved to be impregnable. In that
quality, therefore, nothing that could be given
in exchange could be found equal to it. It was
confeffedly the firft object of the king of Spain,
who would scarcely think any thing too much
for its purcbafe. If it was to come to market:
therefore, these faffs should be regarded, and
never loft fight of. We should recollect also,
how we flood on the lc< re oflofs and acquisiti
on by the war. France had taken some of our
island, and we had got the whole of the New
foundland fifhery and the island of St. Lucia ;
an inlands in the eyes of France, of more im
portance than all the reftaof the Weft-India
islands put together, *He uid not imagine, his
lordship said, that France would make peace on
the terms of uti poffidetis, but lie infilled upon
it, that after a lucce fsful campaign, and after
obtaining greater advantages, than we had
gained the whole war, we ought not to
give way to any unreafcnable demand whatever.
An honourable gentleman, bis lordship observ
ed, had talked very triumphantly of the fine
state ofour navy, aud the vigorous exertions of
the present naval administration, to which alone
he imputed so fortunate a circumstance. He
begged leave to remind the house, that the 12th
of April was the day, on which io,d Rodney
gained the molt glorious victory that had
crowned our naval arms this war. That his
fleet was superior to the enemy ; that he took 8
of their ships ; that 9 had fioce been sent home
to Europe to be repaired ; that 12 more were in
Boston bay repairing; so that we were still
greatly superior to the enemy in the Weft.ln
dies. Nearly about the 12th of April, the hon.
gentleman was employing his oratory, in flat,
ing to that house the deplorable and wretched
condition of our navy ; that he had now said,
that his description of its bad state at thac
ime, fell far (hart of what he felt it to be, b» r
councils, he had not, he owned, thought be should be
able to bring the war to a conclusion, without giving
up the independence of America, but he had always
regarded the concession of itin a very different light,
from that in which it had been described by the ho
nour bc gentleman who seconded the address. The
honourable gentleman had declared, that this coun
try gave up nothing, when they conceded the inde
pendence of America, but what America was already
in pr .fb flion of, and had obtained by the power of their
arms. He, for his part, thought the solemn avowal
of that independence, on the part of Great-Britain, a
very melancholy, a very (eriour, and a very impor
tant matter ; and he hoped when the time came, that
the provisional terms, upon which it had been con
ceded, were laid before parliament, it would appear
that administration had taken care to mark out pro
per boundaries, agreed upon between Great-Britain
and America, so that this country might derive some
advantage from her remaining prff ffi ms on the Ame
rican continent. Charleftown, Savannah, and New-
York, he took it for granted, were already evacuated;
care ought therefore, to be taken to prevent the A
merican army from turning its force upon Canada,
and if we had tied ourselves down to certain terms
tending towards a peace with America, he hoped
fometbing had been done to prevent our having grant
ed more than we obtained, or given away what we
should find we ought not to have parted with With
regard to the enormous Oze of the national debt, un
doubtedly it was an obj^ft worthy of attention, and
the Sooner it was lessened the better; but no debt,
no diftreffis ought to induce us to accede to a peace,
th- terms of which were unreasonable or improper in
our present fituat on. It had, he kn*w, been hint->
ed, that France had made exorbitant and uajuft de
m rids. In negechting peace, it behoved ministers
no merely to look at our own distresses ; they ought
to examine end compare the refpe&ive Situations of
each counter, and from a view of the whole, and a
well/fyfad balance of the date of each, to form the
grounds of treaty. The success of the iaft campaign
had been great and glorious; it was now evident we
were nearly, if not quits upon a footing with the
enemy ar sea every where.