The Pennsylvania packet, or, The general advertiser — Lancaster, Pa.;Philadelphia, Pa., 1778-03-11 00:00:00, page 1

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GENERA L
LONDO N, December 5.
Debates in the House of Commons on
Tuesday. [Continued from our 4?//.]
MR, Ax role and informed the House, that
agreeable to his promise, he moved the House,
that on a future day they Should fotin themlelves in
to a Comrrittee of the whole House to confider the
state of the nation. He thought it necessary, befaid,
to explain the meaning and extent of his motion,
which he Would do in a veay tew words. Re meant
then, that the Committee Should confider the ex
pences that the nation hath incurred from the Ame
rican war, and the resources that we possess to raise
the Supplies necessary for its continuance. In the
second place, the lots or men from that war. gdly,
the fitnation of trade, both wuh regard to America
and the foreign markets. 4'hiy, the present fituati
on of the war, and the hopes that we may rightly
entertain from its continuance, and the conduct and
measures of the present Administration of a lasting
peace, and alio cur present situation in regard to so
reign powers. And s'hly, to consider what progress
Sir William and Lord Howe have made in conse
quence of the powers entrusted to them as Commif
iioners of peace to bring abour a peace. Beneath these
general heads many other enquiries would arise, and it
would be the bufinefsofthe Committee to follow every
path that promised 'o lead to a thorough investigation
and difeevery of the date of the nation. If, continues
he, it appears that the nation is in a bad state, and
that the late and present measures of Admiaiftration
have reduced us to an extremity, which he was afraid
they certainly had, a new system must be introduced,
and a new set of Ministers appointed ; but if, on the
contrary, the nation Ihould be found in a flourifhing
state, and the present measures likely to prove Suc
cessful, the present system Should be by all means
continued, and the present Ministers remain in pow
er ; for none, he was assured, but the present Minif
tets, could prosecute rhe present system.
Lord North said he cbearfully agreed to the moti
on of the honourable gentleman, and would do all in
bis power to promote the great end he had in view.
Nothing, he said, would give him more true delight,
that to convince the House that the state of the na
tion was much more flourifhing than many of the
opposite fide actually did, or affected to believe. At
the fame time he hoped to be understood, that his
ready compliance with the motion should preclude
him from the necessity of laying papers before the
House that might prove inconvenient, dangerous, or
hurtful to Government.
The motion having passed without a division,
Mr. F@x rose again, and moved, that on the 2d
of February next, the day appointed for the Com
mittee to meet an his frft motion, " An account of
all troops, foreign and domestic, that were, or had
been engaged in the British service lince the firft of
November, 1774." Also, " A lift of ail the (hips
of war, (loops, and armed vessels that have been en
gaged in the service, the numbers that have been
taken, loft or destroyed, with the ex^d returns of
Tien killed or taken prisoners from the firft of No
vember, 1774." Allo, “ The last general returns
of all the hospitals belonging to his Majesty in North-
America." Also, “ A lift of all drips of war em
ployed by Government as convoys to the trading
fleets of this country." Also, " Copies of the last
general monthly returns of all the troops in his Ma
jefty's service within Great Britain." Also, " Co
pies of the returns of the troops in Ireland ; and co
pies of the returns of all the trocps in North-Arne
rica and the Weft Indies." All these motions paSTed
without oppofiton; when he continued to move,
“ That an humble Address Should be presented to
his Majesty, that he would be graciously p!ea'ed to
aider the proper officers to lay before the House all
the papers that relate to the tranfa&ions ofLordand
Sir William Howe, as Commissioners of Peace, to
WEDNESDA Y, MARCH u, 1778.
bring about a negotiation arutreaty of peace with
the Americans."-
Lord North rose in oppofrion to this morion ; he
said he must object to it from the region that papers
produced during rhe existence of a negotiation, if
any had taken place, must be very injurious to the
cause. Every fair difeovery he was amenable to,
but he could not consent that difeoveries Should be
made prejudicial to government, and to the true in
interefts of this country-
Mr. Serjeant Adair said he could not fee what
difeovery could be made in ihe least injurious. None
was tailed for that the Americans did not know al
ready. They muff only be withheld he presumed,
because they might prove injurious to Administrati
on from being known to the House of Commons.
Mr. Stanley objected to the motion for several
reafoDS. Negotiations, he laid, to rebels in arms,
must be made not to the people at large, but to fe
le& bodies, perhaps to individuals; and the difeovery
of luch bodies of men might draw upon them the
vengeance of the others. But in truth he said, he
knew not that any negotiation had been entered in
to. With rebels in arms, standing up for indepen
dence, no treaty of conciliation could be made. Ihe
very proportion acknowledged their independence.
Mr. Burke observed, that he never heard the 00
ble Lord (Lord North) behave with so much can
dour, generosity, and Ipiiit, as to-day; he had a
greed to every tittle of hie friend's request ; he had
published a bond wherein he granted all; but in the
end was inserted a little defeafance, with a power of
revocation, by which he preserved himlelf from the
execution of every grant he had made. His conduct,
he laid, reminded him of a certain Governor, who,
when he arrived at his place of appointment, fat
down to a table covered with profusion, and abound
ing with every dainty and delicacy that art, nature,
and a provident Reward could furnifh; but a pigmy
physician, who watched over the health of the Go
vernor, excepted to one dish, because it was disagree
able; to another, because it was hard of digestion ;
to a third, because it was unhealthy; and in this
progressive mode robbed the Governor of evety diSh
on table, and left him without a dinner. He an
swered minutely the arguments of Mr. Stanley, ex
pefed the folly of the idea, that we must not negoci
ate with the Americans until they had renounced
their claim of independence. Are they not, he ob
fei ved, in possession ? are they not independent, de
faEto? They pofiels the whole country of America.
What we have, we have gained by arms. If we have
a Government in America, it is founded upon con
quest, since they set up their independence; and as
they enjoy the right, de faflo, and we alone de jure,
we must and ought to treat with them on the terms
of a foederal union. He instanced the supposition
of a treaty with France. The King of Britain en
joys the right de jure to the kingdom of France.
The French King enjoys it deface; he is merely a
Congress uforper; and yet would it be argued, that
no treaty of peace could take place with him until he
had renounced his claim. He begged to have leave
to confider the effects that would arile from a renun
ciation of their independence. By renouncing their
independence they acknowledge their rebellion; by
aconowledging their rebellion, they acknowledged
their crime; by their crime they were deprived of
their rights, and obnoxious to punishment. In luch
case, no conciliation or treaty could be Consistent
with the honour of the British name; so that terms
of negociation must be entered into during their in
dependence. He said, that the A& on which Lord
and Sir Wliliam Howe were veiled with their corn
millions, propoles two methods to be prosecuted to
bring about a peace; the one by force of arms, and
the other by terms of conciliation. It would be ne
cessary, he laid, to inquire if both these methods had
been praQifed ; the firft he was feofible, and all must
know had been indeed pradiled> but he was afraid
THE
T H E
ADVERTISER.
the second had not, else why were not New-York,
Stateq and Long Blands, with any other territory
we are in peffeffton of, restored to the King's peace#
Governor Tryon, he said, had written to General
Howe for the purpose of reftering New York to the
King's peace. General Howe answered that he
could not do it without the concurrence of the Se
cretary of State, and there it flopped. This, he
hoped, would be particularly enquired into. He
made several other defences of the propriety of his
honourable friend's motion, and concluded with fay
ing, that he hoped his friend would not depart flora
a title of his proposition.
(Proceedings in the House of Commons ratiH be
continued in our next.)
NOVEMBER 27.
^DEBATES in the HOUSE of LORDS
on the propojed Amendment to the Address.
LORD CAMDE N—My Lords, I rife to
support the motion made by the noble Earl,
When the measures meant to be fandtioned by the
address of this day were firft proposed to your Lord-
Ibips, it was laid with confidence by feme of the very
persons, who still have the modesty to expert that
you will continue it, that a foife dragoon would
ftnke such a terror into the hearts of the people of
America, that they would labmit to your measures.
That experiment not having been thought prudent,
you passed an aiff for (hutting up the port of Boffon,
by which you not only infixed a public punishment
on the rioters, a rabble I will maintain who defiroy
ed the tea, but you in fa& confifeated private pro
perty. You cut off the inhabitants from all com
mercial intercourse whatever, and deprived them of
all means of living; but what was still more extra
ordinarily unjust, you punilhed the whole province
of Maffachuletts Bay for a riot committed by a Bos
ton mob. You vacated their charter; and, as if
you meant at the very instep of the business to force
them into mealures of refinance, you declared war
against all America, by fubjeding every man in itto
be dragged to some other colony, or optionally to
Great-Britain, to be tried by a prejudiced or packed
jury, for offences committed in his own country.
Those measures had the desired effe& ; for I can never
be brought to believe but they were intended to pro
duce what followed. So far the ends were corref
pondewt with the means. The people of America
(hewed great diffatisfadion, but that did not fully
answer the intentions of Government. It was not
diffatisfadion, but rebellion that was fought; a bet
ter apology for daughter, cooqueft and uncondition
al submission. America still remained loyal; no
thing of refinance yet appeared, either in words or
actions, unless a few angry resolves at the meetings
of one or two paltry townships. The Congress met,
and deprecated our resentments, and supplicated the
Throne and Parliament in terms of obedience and
affection. Not a word of actual resistance or inde
pendency all this time. The feene began now to
open. The people of Boston were not starved;
their brethren throughout America committed a
crime little short of treason; they made contributi
ons to cloath them; they endeavoured to prevent
them (no matter whether the persons thus relieved
were guilty or innocent) from perishing with cold
and hunger. A bill was therefore passed for de
priving them of further relief. This was accompa
nied or rather preceded, with a famous address, de
claring Maffachulett's Bay in rebellion!
Every thing was now prepared; instead of afingfe
dragoon, ten or twelve thousand men were said to
be fufficient to strike terror in every corner of Ame
rica. The Address a fanftion for the cutting of
throats; the poor fishermen of Nantucket, a peace
able set of inoffending Quakers, were thought fit
objeds of parliamentary relentment ; in short, as the
northern colonies were not to have bread, neither
were they co have fiffi. But all this did no do; the