Im Dialog ( In Dialogue“I Don’t Want to Limit Myself to Binary Thinking”: An Interview With the Indonesian Artist Arahmaiani
Gunnar Stangewww.seas.at

doi 10.14764/10.ASEAS-2017.1-8► Stange, G. (2017). “I don’t want to limit myself to binary thinking.” An interview with the Indonesianartist Arahmaiani. Austrian Journal of South-East Asian Studies, 10(1), 109-116.

Arahmaiani is one of the best known contemporary Indonesian women artists. Herworks, performances, and installations have been exhibited at 7 biennials and in a totalof 29 countries. She has taught at universities in Australia, China, Indonesia, Germany,
the United States, and the Netherlands. Arahmaiani is a politically committed artist. In
her works, she addresses the reduction of human beings to consumers, which is on therise all over the globe, as well as the discrimination against people on the grounds ofgender, religion, and ethnicity. While the phenomena addressed in her art are alwaysof a global nature, the majority of her works deal with cultural, social, and politicalrealities of Indonesia. She views these as being threatened by an increasing politicizationand essentialization of Islam, whose protagonists supplant the country’s diverse ethnic,
linguistic, and religious heritage with a purely Islamic interpretation of the Indonesianpast. In this interview, conducted by Gunnar Stange in December 2016, Arahmaiani
elaborates on the main themes she addresses in her art works as well as on current
political, social, and environmental challenges in Indonesia.
Keywords: Engaged Art; Environmentalism; Indonesia; Political Activism; Religious Extremism(
Gunnar Stange: You have been active in the Indonesian and international art scene
for some thirty years now. What were the drivers for your decision to set oﬀ on the
precarious journey to become an artist?
Arahmaiani: Indeed, time flies fast. I see myself as an artist and at the same time
I want to give meaning to life. This is not an easy path. Yet, I consider this a callof my conscience that I simply can’t resist. My feet keep carrying me towards
that direction. I follow my intuition. Besides that, I have loved to draw, paint,
dance, and play music since I was a little child. So, already from that time on, I
believed that I should become an artist. Even though some people discouraged
me in the beginning (including my parents), I was sure that art is what I love andI wanted to become a good artist!
Gunnar: What are the main themes or questions that you are dealing with in yourwork?
Arahmaiani: I think that the main theme of my works is power relations. But
not limited to a narrow mind frame along binary oppositions. Only a free imagination makes it possible to explore fields that couldn’t be reached within the

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Gunnar Stange ! ASEAS 10(1)boundaries of a binary thinking. I ask very simple questions, for example: ‘What does
our life on this planet actually mean?’ In my quest for answers, I am particularly interested in norms and values that we inherited from our ancestors. In my work, I try to
reinterpret these philosophies in the context of contemporary conditions.
Gunnar: You have been given many ‘names’ by the international art scene. Some callyou an engaged artist. Others say that you are a political artist. How would you describe
yourself?
Arahmaiani: As antiquated as it may sound, I understand my work as duty andresponsibility. If I put it in a modern or contemporary context that is characterized byindividualism, I might simply say I do what I do because I have the right to do it, andI claim it. My way of thinking departs from ancient Asian traditions of thought. At
the same time, I study and try to understand modern ways of thought, too. As I said
earlier, I don’t want to limit myself to a binary thinking. In my way of thinking, two
opposing things are actually related to each other. Thus, you can’t choose one over
the other. This would be a simplification which ultimately leads to a ‘black and white’
categorization, which may look simple but actually causes many problems. In Asian
traditions of thought, opposing principles had always been juxtaposed and wereconsidered to be part of reality. Yet, this doesn’t mean that such a way of thinking
doesn’t know the value of truth. It is about understanding reality as it is and dealing
with it in a wise way. No easy endeavor, indeed. In principle, art is open and there aremany things it can express. And it is easy to share it in public space. In this way, art
can function as a bridge between diﬀerent disciplines and lifestyles. This perfectly fits
my multi- or transdisciplinary approach as an efficient way to express ideas.
Gunnar: We had the wonderful opportunity to work together on your retrospective exhibition “Violence No More” in Frankfurt am Main in autumn 2015. The exhibition was ajourney through the last 30 years of your work, much of it regarding Indonesia. What are
the most pressing political, societal, and environmental challenges in Indonesia these days?
Arahmaiani: We are facing many problems in Indonesia: problems that are related tothe past, the present, and the future. First of all, there is the trauma of colonizationthat has not been properly addressed. Then, there are the blind spots of Indonesianhistory that are still waiting to see a truthful portrayal, such as the genocide of 1965/66.1
Dealing with the past in such a way has shaped the mentality, the way of thinking, anda certain attitude of Indonesians that is [still] problematic up until today. It is the very
reason for the fact that corruption and hypocrisy have become epidemic in a country
that is so rich in culture and in natural as well as human resources. This, again, has led
to other problems like the ever-widening social asymmetry between the rich and the
1 After an attempted, yet failed, coup to overthrow the Sukarno government in September 1965, powerfulparts within the Indonesian military accused the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI) of being behind thecoup. In its aftermath, the Indonesian military, aided by thugs and civil society mass organization, killed
between 500,000 and 1,500,000 alleged members and sympathizers of Indonesia’s communist movement.
Whether or not these gross human rights violations should be categorized as a genocide is still being
debated among scholars.

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poor. We can see that values like plurality and tolerance are less and less respected.
Groups that claim to represent the Muslim majority increasingly treat minorities
in a barbaric and inhumane way. This is true for non-Muslim religious groups ingeneral, and the Chinese minority in particular. Women are also highly aﬀected bythese developments. Traditional and religious conservative values consider women
not as equals to men. Still, there are movements of critical women who try to change
this condition. But, if we look at the recent strengthening of conservative and evenradical voices within the Muslim community, we can observe a backlash regarding
the situation of women in Indonesia. It has become a normal thing that a memberof parliament, who most likely is also a rich entrepreneur, has more than one wife.2
Things like this have become socially acceptable again.
Also, our consumerist and materialist lifestyle increasingly erodes the consciousness that is needed to protect the environment. It seems that the government andcorporations have an easy time getting rid of customary and traditional values that
actually respect and protect the environment. This is how customary and traditional
communities are marginalized and their lands transformed for industrial use that
only benefits private businesses. Forced eviction and land grabbing by private businesses or the government are common practice all over the archipelago. The enormous tropical forest fires of 2015 and 2016 were, of course, the most visible example.
These fires, purposely set by palm oil entrepreneurs, were the worst in a century.3
They have not only destroyed thousands of hectares of forest. They have also caused
severe air pollution with heavy impacts on the health of local communities that often
lose their land and livelihoods due to the fires. The forest fauna was also highly affected. Many animals died in the flames, got injured, and lost their habitat.
Another serious environmental issue is the pollution of water and soil as a result of
the extensive use of chemical fertilizers. This farming system was introduced during
the Suharto era in the context of the Green Revolution. Seeds, fertilizers, and evenfarming equipment had to be imported, rendering the farmers highly dependent on
the producers. Up until today, the Ministry for Agriculture negotiates farming goods
contracts with corporations like Monsanto. Another reason for the worsening ofenvironmental pollution is the absence of an efficient waste management system.
Rivers, arable and non-arable land, and even the sea are full of waste, mostly plastic
waste that takes a very long time to decompose. The result is an increasing numberof natural disasters such as floods and landslides.
All these problems have to be seen in the context of a poor education system. According to a survey, Indonesia has the worst education system in Southeast Asia. It is
no surprise that Indonesians in general have a unique problem or, if you want to put
it another way, difficulty: the ability to think logically.

2 A Muslim man may marry up to four women if he is able to treat them equally. On the other hand,
Islam does not provide for polyandry. Whether or not this traditional practice is compatible with the ideaof universal human rights is being hotly debated within the Islamic scholarly community and beyond.
3 Forest fires are a seasonal phenomenon in Indonesia. Purposely set fires are used as a cheap method toclear land for new planting. Most of the aﬀected areas contain highly flammable peat soil, which causes thefires to spread quickly and makes it highly difficult to stop them.

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Gunnar Stange ! ASEAS 10(1)Gunnar: As you said, Indonesia has experienced increasing levels of discrimination andviolence against religious minorities in recent years. What are the drivers behind these developments and do you see any signs of change for the better?
Arahmaiani: There are a couple of interest groups involved in that issue – at the local,
the national, and even the international level. This includes politicians, entrepreneurs,
and certain religious groups that are ambitious, have a limited knowledge, and wantto prove that religion holds a superior truth. This makes the issue quite complex.
The root problem of today’s global ‘political game’ is the wish to control all kindsof resources. But this must also be seen in the context of an international ‘politicalgame’ in which international corporations and even governments with all kinds ofagendas have an interest in stigmatizing the Muslim community. At the same time,international radical Islamic groups develop their very own strategies to reach theirgoals. Conservative and radical groups on the local and national levels try to capitalizeon this situation by claiming that Islam as a religion and a specific group of people isbeing oppressed and colonialized by the West. These groups use this kind of rhetoric
to legitimate their claims and to condemn everyone not in line with their way of life
and thinking. Usually, they call them infidels. On the other hand, politicians at alllevels try to capitalize on this situation and on the leaders of these radical groups fortheir own benefits. After the end of the so-called New Order of Suharto, it became
evident that his regime ‘created’ radical groups in order to spread chaos and terror
in society. Politicians used this atmosphere to their own advantage, for example, by
portraying themselves as guarantors of the public order. To cut it short, the elites
determine the rules of the game and, if need be, create disasters (like war or terrorist
attacks) and willingly sacrifice people. These kinds of injustices are still practiced– through the economy, the manipulation of culture, the instrumentalization ofreligion, or the absence of the rule of law in everyday life. In other words: law can bebought. If you ask me whether I see a change for the better, I must honestly tell youthat I don’t see any reason for optimism at the moment.
Gunnar: Back in 2014, Joko Widodo (Jokowi) was elected president of Indonesia. Hisconstituency considered him the Indonesian Barack Obama and had high hopes regarding
the rule of law and human rights protection. Yet, under his presidency, the humanrights situation seems to be worsening. Would you say that Indonesia’s relatively young
democratization process is experiencing a crisis of political representation?
Arahmaiani: In the beginning, Jokowi was considered a light of hope by many Indonesians, especially by the poorer strata that suﬀer from injustices. Most important forthis perception was his background as a small entrepreneur who came from a poorfamily. Additionally, he had no connection with the New Order whatsoever. He was
the embodiment of the promise and the hope for a new type of leader that would
bring welfare to the Indonesian people. But after he took office, it turned out that inreality he could not live up to these expectations. So, very disappointing. Injustice isstill going on, corruption is becoming even more rampant, and human rights seem tobe a mere slogan without any meaning. One example for the inhumane treatment ofpeople is the fact that drug couriers receive the death penalty and are being executed

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whereas the real bosses are at large. Also, corrupt politicians who are clearly guilty
are not punished. The weakness of the Indonesian Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) is very disappointing. Other examples are, of course, connected to thedark history of the 1965 genocide. Although there are demands for justice and official
apologies for the victims from many sides, nothing substantial has happened up until
today. It seems that the more time passes by the less hope there is.
Gunnar: Do artists play a significant role in political and environmental activism inIndonesia? And, are there any governmental or private institutions that provide support
and/or funding for politically engaged artists?
Arahmaiani: The movement of art activism already started during the Indonesian
independence revolution.4 So, there is quite a long tradition in this field. And evenunder the New Order, this art activism was strong and played a role in the politicaland social life of Indonesia. Actually, up until today there are artists in Indonesia thatare active in this field. They are quite loyal and strong. Although the international art
scene has changed a lot, the art market is becoming stronger and stronger. Besides
the positive eﬀect that more artists can actually make a living, the negative side isthat the art world is increasingly focusing on the market which is more and more
becoming an arena for business and investment. With a poor infrastructure, forexample, the absence of publicly financed museums, and a critics scene that is halfdead, market domination with all its games becomes stronger. The eﬀect is that it ismore about whether an artwork is a good investment than about the artwork itself.
Art that has social-political or environmental messages is usually done on the artists’
own initiative, or as endorsed by NGOs. Of course, there had already been a trend
in the painting market that considered engaged art as something fancy. Yet, it was
simply a trend that was soon replaced by another trend, and so on. The problem
with the support of NGOs is actually that it is usually temporary and project-based.
The rationale is usually that the NGOs can communicate their agenda. Additionally,sometimes NGOs are involved in corruption cases, which also constitutes a risk forartists working with them. In principle, there is no public institution in Indonesiathat supports the activities of engaged artists. I’m completely on my own as I have tofinance my activities myself.
Gunnar: For more than five years, you have been working with Tibetan monks in
the Yushu region. The core focus of your work is to raise awareness for environmental
protection. Among other things, you have initiated a tree planting campaign that has
resulted in hundreds of thousands of newly planted trees.5 How is your Tibetan experience
influencing you ethically and on a conceptual level?
Arahmaiani: Actually, it has been already more than six years. Yes, my first aim is todevelop a consciousness for the environment and to remind people how important
4 After the declaration of Indonesian independence on 17 August 1945, the Indonesians fought a war of
independence against the Dutch, the former colonial power, between 1945 and 1949.
5

The trees make an important contribution to the reduction of soil erosion.

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Gunnar Stange ! ASEAS 10(1)the Tibet Plateau is in this context. The Tibet Plateau is also known as the ‘3rd pole’as it is the world’s third-largest area of ice. It is also called the ‘water tower’ of Asia,with Asia’s seven largest rivers originating there: the Mekong, the Yangtze, the Yellow
River, the Brahmaputra, the Ganges, the Indus, and the Salween. Global warming has
severe eﬀects on that area, as it causes the melting of the glaciers as well as the thawing of the permafrost. At the same time, there is an increase in flood disasters in Asian
countries. And, of course, we can’t allow this to continue. Until now, we have beenworking on the problem from diﬀerent angles. This includes waste management,
planting trees, re-starting collective organic farming, revitalizing the tradition of nomadic livestock farming with a revolving fund for Yaks (called the ‘Yak Bank’), and the
management of water sources for everyday use, energy generation, and medication.
We got very lucky when two years ago the local government finally started to like theprojects and started to support and even finance them. That’s why the projects developed really fast. When I visited Tibet last summer, they estimated that already morethan one million trees had been planted since we started the project.
My experiences from working and interacting with as well as learning from Tibetan Buddhists strengthened my belief in what I’m feeling and thinking. Although, I’m
not completely free of doubt. Since I was a teenager, my thinking and understandingof reality has been grounded in ancient philosophy. Most people in Indonesia findthat funny, especially from the Muslim community. Yet, in Tibet I received supportand even confirmation for my way of thinking. I had the chance to deepen my understanding together with my friends and teachers, lamas from Tibet, both in the Lab
Monastery in Tibet and the Sera Jey Monastery in India. Of course, that has deeply
influenced my understanding of ethical concepts and ideas. I understood that, for along time, the principle ideas of my art works and writings have been grounded in
Buddhism. I simply wasn’t aware of it. It also deepened my knowledge of pre-Indonesian history. It’s very important to revive this knowledge because many Indonesians
don’t understand their own history anymore. They have lost that knowledge. The
most important influence on me from all of this is that I understand so much more
and am so much more conscious of what I actually want to express in my works.
A deeper understanding of ethical principles, for example, the principle of non-violence, allows me to comprehend humanitarian problems with regard to social politics, culture, and the environment in a more holistic way.
Gunnar: You are one of the busiest travelers I know, going from one artist in residence
program to another, having exhibitions, and giving classes all around the world. Has beinga ‘modern nomad’ been a conscious decision and how has constantly being on the moveinfluenced your worldview?
Arahmaiani: I have been living a nomadic life for more than thirty years now. It all
started when I left Indonesia for Sydney in 1983 after I was threatened by the Suharto
regime. Before I left, I had been imprisoned for a month. I was finally released but notallowed to perform in public. On top of that, I was thrown out of Bandung University
where I was studying fine arts back then. Living on the move gave me the chance to
get to know many kinds of cultural practices and beliefs. It also helped me to understand how the global economy with all its eﬀects actually works. I’m mainly interested

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in its negative eﬀects, such as injustice and the widening gap and asymmetry between
the poor majority and the rich minority. It also helped me to understand how deeplyintertwined the world actually is or, even, that everything is connected to everything.
This has allowed me to learn and see the underlying norms and structures of the
problems which we can find in human life. Yes, I believe we are all humans regardlessof skin color, culture, or belief. Humans with all their abilities have certain strengths– as compared to other beings like animals – that can be used to achieve positive but
also negative ends. For example, if power ambitions or negative emotions are notcontrolled, it can cause catastrophes and a lot of suﬀering for humans as well as theenvironment. In a global system that is increasingly interconnected, people should
really open up to get to know and understand each other as well as cooperate in addressing the global problems that are threatening the continuation of life. Only if weappreciate and respect diﬀerence, will we be able to understand that all humans are
related to each other and be able to co-exist. War and fighting are things that only
lead to destruction and need to be critically questioned and prevented. The same applies to the weapons industry, which only profits a few but kills and destroys many
people. The best would be to shut them down. Seriously, we have to strengthen intercommunity relations in order to achieve peace and prosperity together to make surethat the future of the coming generations will be a bright one.
Gunnar: Arahmaiani, thank you very much!
Arahmaiani: You are welcome.
Translation from the Indonesian: Gunnar Stange(
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Gunnar Stange is editor of the Austrian Journal of South-East Asian Studies. He currently holds
a position as Assistant Professor in Human Geography at the Department of Geography andRegional Research, University of Vienna, Austria. He received his PhD from the Department
of Social and Cultural Anthropology, Goethe University, Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
His research interests include peace and conflict studies, development studies, and forced
migration. His regional focus is on South-East Asia, mainly Indonesia.
► Contact: gunnar.stange@univie.ac.at