A Publication of the Indianapolis Coin Club

The Planchet
Issue 487

October 2007

The Meetings of the Indianapolis Coin Club are held the fourth Monday of each monthat the Northside Knights of Columbus at 2100 E. 71st Street in Indianapolis,
Indiana. The Meetings consist of a business session, an intermission, educational
program, and a numismatic auction. Doors open at 6:00pm, meeting will begin at
7:00pm.

The next meeting will be
Monday, October 22

ISNA Show November 2nd & 3rd
ICC Getting Ready
The Indiana State Show is quickly approaching, and the ICC will be there. This is our clubs biggest opportunity to face with the “Coin Collecting Public.” This year Jim Fuson is heading up the“Table” committee for the ICC. The table is at the entrance of the show, and volunteers from theclub will man it. The purpose is to inform people that there is an Indy Club, what we have to offer,
were we meet, hand out brochures about the club, sell displays, take dues, and any other information
they might want. There will be an informative video running most of the time about the hobby.
Jim has already filled all time slots for manning the table and is getting the “Goodie Bags” readyto give out. Last year we handed out around 125 bags and they were a hit. We received lots ofcompliments and I think it helped get a few new members. This year we are looking at about 200
bags. WE NEED YOUR HELP !!! We need more items for the bags. We are looking for FREE
promotional items from local businesses or organizations. We do not want just a bunch of fliers
from banks, retail outlets, etc, we are looking for pens, bandages, candy, maps, calculators, key
chains, water bottles, any advertising item, etc. It does not matter how many they give, we sort themout into equal bags. SO YOUR JOB is to ask for these items from where you work, do business, orshop. Inform them that it is good advertising for them. Last year Wal-Mart gave us over 200 Chap
sticks to put in the bags, just because I asked. Please bring any and all items to the meeting on October 22nd so that we will have time to make up the bags before the show. The more items in the bag
the better !!! Thanks you for all your help on this and we hope to see you at the show.

PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

$$$$ “ALWAYS BUYING” $$$$
VINTON G. DOVE

PAYING TOP PRICES FOR ALL U.S. COINS

Certified Public Accountant
Collecting U.S. Coins Since 1952

DON’T SELL WITHOUT GETTING OUR OFFER!!!

LARRY HYLTONBROWNSBURG, IN

ANA, ISNA-LM, CSNS-LM(317) 852-8458

443 Wellington Road
Indianapolis, IN 46260(317) 257-1906
Fax(317) 257-2220

Jim Fuson
Retired Teacher & Coach

R.O.M.A. COIN
Specializing in U.S. RARE COINS

Collector of old U.S. Coins
And old Sports Cards
Also have some coins and cards for sale5795 E. Co. Rd. 350 S., Plainfield, IN 46168
ICC & ANA
(317) 839-5178
APPRAISALSBUY AND SELL

PHONE(317) 753-7967

DOUBLE D. KOINSDONALD D. KING SR.
MemberANA CSNS ICCORVA (ORV) DETRICK
Professional Numismatist

PO Box 267
Donnelsville, Ohio
45319-0267
Phone: 937-882-6730
Cell #: 937-284-0412
E-mail: Romacoin@aol.com
Buy/Sell Bullion: Gold & Silver

Advertise in the Indianapolis CoinClub Newsletter! The cost is only
$35.00 for a business card size ad for
12 issues!

The Monthly Planchet is the official publication of the Indianapolis Coin
Club. It is published monthly in Indianapolis, Indiana. All inquiries should
be sent to ICC, P.O. Box 2897, Indianapolis, Indiana, 46206.

The 2007 Indianapolis Coin Club
Officers and Board Members
President
Mark Eberhardt
Vice-President
Jim Roehrdanz
Secretary
Vinton Dove
Treasurer
Karl Kreck
EditorMark Eberhardt(fubacoin@aol.com) ph. (317) 837-5682
Past President
Sgt-at-Arms
Board Member 2007-2008
Board Member 2007-2008
Board Member 2007-2008
Board Member 2006-2007
Board Member 2006-2007
Board Member 2006-2007

Vinton Dove
Jim Warden
Dave Reid
Bob Bettcher
James Held
Jim Fuson
Charles Alber
Open

Table of Contents
ISNA Show

-

Cover

Advertisers-

Page 2Presidential Dollars -Page 3

Secretary’s Report -Page 4Show Schedule-

Page 5

Treasurer’s Report -Page 5

Ed. Prog. For Oct.

-

Page 5Classified Ads-

Page 5

Bill Lettered Edges-

Page 6

Election Information -Page 6The Monthly Planchet, October 2007

PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

Page 2

New Presidential Dollar Errors by Rodney Scott
I am generally supportive of the United States Mint. I know that there are times that we read stories in
Coin World about some lapse in customer service or some damaged product that has been shipped to a patron, but as a rule I have also received good service and the coins have arrived in the condition I have expected. The Mint is a factory. In many ways it is a metal working factory and it has all the problems thatwould be associated with any facility of that kind or circumstance.
Once making that statement, the new dollar coin has not proved to be the United States Mint’s mostshining moment. There are so many errors and miscues that I cannot keep track of them. I have become
lost in the story and the different types of error dollar coins. This is one of the reasons I am writing this article. This is a way to help me process the information and attempt to determine what is real and what isnot.
One of the things that happened with the new Presidential dollar coins is the inscription on the edge. I
am sure there was some committee sitting around in Washington or Philadelphia and they were looking at
marketing techniques. They decided that they needed to do something different, something to catch the
public’s eye, and someone said they needed to put part of the inscription on the edge. It was not long before the discussion included the motto, the date, and the mintmark. Other countries have done that in thepast. In fact the United States has the 1992 Olympic silver dollar commemorative with a phrase on theedge. It is well within the manufacturing expertise of the Mint. In other ways it would be novel. The
United States has not had a circulating coin with the inscription on the side in so long that only some of ouroldest citizens can remember them. I hate to use the word gimmick, but those in marketing do think inthose terms. They are looking for a hook, an attention-grabber, something that would make the generalpublic take notice. An inscription on the edge seems about as good as any idea.
I am sure the engineers and designers of the coin did not have any problems with the captions on theside. In short order they would have been able to show how that could be done. It is not until you have aworkman and his stamping press that you have a difficulty and this is not really an unforeseen difficulty.
You have a machine that is spitting out hundreds of coins in a minute and thousands of coins in an hourand it is not hard to understand how a mistake can occur. The machine only has to be out of calibration a
micro degree and error coins are being produced. Even when a machine becomes fouled, by the time an
operator shuts it off hundreds of errors could have been produced.
The Mint has a quality control department. I have no doubt they catch a lot more coins than what we seein circulation that are miss-struck. It is estimated that the mint has an error rate of 0.000003 percent, buteven at that level they are creating 50,000 error coins a year. The dollar coin is different. It is hard to viewa coin from the side. The Mint has spent two hundred years examining coins from the obverse or reverse
and now someone has thrown something different at them. I am sure that the rim inscription must be aquality control nightmare for the Mint inspectors.
When we start to discuss the new Presidential dollars there seems to be two categories. One is the typeof error coins that have been produced for hundreds of years. The type of errors that generally come fromthe United States Mint, or most mints around the world. You have Broadstrikes, Off-Center Struck Coins,
Double Dies, Multiple Struck Coins, Mated Pairs, Brockages, Capped Dies, Counter-brockage, Indents,
Wrong Metal, Wrong Planchet, Blank Planchet, Bonded Coins, Mules, Fragments, Folded-Over Strikes,
and Rotated Dies. The second category would be errors generated solely by these new Presidential dollars.
Because they have a motto on the edge the errors would be focused on this element.
While it is not possible to speak to every one of these traditional errors. Many of them have occurred.
Reports have appeared about missing clad layers on the Presidential dollars.. NGC has authenticated atleast one. There are broken planchets. These are a rather common error for all denominations. There has
been a report that a rotated die Presidential dollar exists. It is rotated approximately 93 degrees. This is always peculiar because of how modern coins are produced. In the nineteenth century they were far morecommon because dies would slip and by our current standards there was poor quality control. (Continued
Page 6)The Monthly Planchet, October 2007

PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

Page 3

September 24, 2007 Minutes of the
ICC Meeting.
Secretary’s note: This was the second meeting
held at our new location, the Knights of Columbus Hall at 2100 East 71st Street, which is justwest of Keystone Avenue.
Open - The meeting was called to order at 7:00 PM by President
Mark Eberhardt. 36 people signed the attendance book.
Visitors - the visitor introduced was Bill Jones.
The Secretary’s report and the Treasurer’s report were readand accepted. The minutes were amended to correct the Indiana
State Numismatic Association (ISNA) Show dates to November
2nd and 3rd.
Old Business – none.
New Business – The President reported that our new contact
with the Knights of Columbus (K of C) is named Liz. She said
that we got very good feedback from the last meeting, since asignificant number of our members ate in the bar area before,
during and after the meeting. The K of C management waspleased.
The Club needs more items to fill the “goodie bags” which
will be handed out at the ISNA Show, November 2nd and 3rd.
The type of item desired is something that the ordinary person
can use, such as pens or pencils (with the name of the donatingcompany on the item). Companies can donate candies or otheritems with the company name attached, if they desire. Members were urged to bring such items to the next (October 22)
meeting, or call Mark to arrange to deliver them to him.
As Newsletter Editor, Mark asked all members who are
currently receiving the newsletter by U S Mail to give him theire-mail address so that he can send it to them by e-mail. This
will save the Club a significant amount of money, and will reduce the load on the Editor.
Mark again made a plea for volunteers to serve in 2008 as
Officers or Board Members. The membership was remindedthat the Club’s election would be held at the November meeting, and anyone desiring to hold office should call Mark or Vinton to get their name put on the ballot. November 1st is thedeadline.
The Club’s Banquet is normally held on the 1st Monday inDecember. Mark took a show of hands to see how many people
would be interested in attending the Banquet at the K of C hall
this year. More than 15 members said they were interested. A
similar number said they would bring their spouses. The K of C
offers an excellent fare, and Mark is trying to arrange to have theBanquet there. All members and friends are welcome, but wemust have a reasonably accurate “head count” so the K of C can
plan the correct amount of food.
Doc Gerth announced that the ISNA is having a competition

between the coin clubs in Indiana at their Show thisyear to see which Club can put on the best Exhibit.
Doc had sent the official notice, application andrules to Mark, who appointed a Committee to assemble an Exhibit for the Club. Members of theCommittee are Vinton Dove, Matt Dinger, Jim
Held, Marty Moore, Dan Spears and Sarah
Hensley. Mark is also a member, ex officio.
As Secretary, Vinton then read important messages received by the Club in the mail. The
Logansport Coin Club announced their CoinShow which will be held on Sunday, October 7,
from 9 AM to 4 PM at the Logansport Ramada Inn
at 3550 US Route 24, East (Business Route).
The Club also received an ANA “Post Convention Report” from Cliff Mishler, who was theGeneral Chairman of the Milwaukee event.
The Central States Numismatic Society(CSNS) sent a letter asking how they could help
our Club in the educational program area. They
said they were considering three ideas to help
Member Clubs.
- First, they announced that their book purchaseassistance program was modified to increase thelimit of their matching grants to $500 from $250
for book purchases.
- Second, they are considering the idea of recording the educational programs given at their annual conventions and making these recordings
available to the Club at no cost.
- Third, they might make the people in their
Speakers Bureau available to our Club at no cost.
We are to respond to the CSNS if our Club would
take advantage of any of these programs, or if wehave any suggestions as to how they might help
Member Clubs. Please direct your input to theSecretary, Vinton Dove.
The Educational Program for the evening waspresented by ICC member and ISNA President,
Coz Raimondi. His presentation was titled “Stateof the Hobby.” This is an annual program in which
Coz gives us his opinion as a coin dealer.
He started by saying that the hobby could be described as “BOOM! The hobby is alive!” Goldclosed at $732.00/oz., Silver at $13.50/oz. and
Platinum at $1,344.00/oz. This translates to ordinary (90%) silver coins selling at approximately
8.7 times face value, just for the silver content.
(Report Continued Page 5)

The Monthly Planchet, October 2007

PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

Page 4

(Secretary Report Continued) These are up in value bylarge percentages in just the last year. “Better condition
coins, VF and better, are up in price and demand is strong.
Collectible Washington quarters (better grade coins) arevery much in demand, as are Fine and better Barber coins.
He said that “Red Cents and Mercury Dimes” are very hot
items, including better grade circulated Mercury’s. Early
20th century Commemorative Coins are composed of two
types – common, (large mintages,) which have very little
demand, and rare, (small number minted,) which are hard tofind, and sell for more than retail prices.
He went on to say that 1968 to 1980 Proof and Mint setsare completely dead, although many of the later proofs, especially the Silver sets are selling OK. Currency, except therare bills, are generally declining in value.
He made several other observations, and concluded withthe statement about “slabs” (certified coins), “Buy the coin,
not the slab!” In other words, make sure in your own opinion that a coin is correctly graded, don’t just take the wordof the grading service.
After the break, Tom Ferverda and Junior member, Kurt
Miller, ran the 50/50 Drawing. The winner was Marty
Moore. For the last several months, prizes in the drawing
have been at near-record levels.
President Eberhardt then ran the Auction. Jim Fuson, Joe
Boling, Karl Kreck and Vinton Dove assisted. The auction
seemed to have an extraordinarily large number of lots thismonth. Most of the lots sold, including several lots donatedby members for the benefit of the Club.
The club adjourned at 9:03 PM.
Vinton Dove, Secretary

Indianapolis Coin Club
Treasurer's Report September
2007
Income:Received from 50/50:
Donated Auction Lots:
Gerald A. Coray:
Total$58.00$ 20.00$ 12.00$ 90.00

Expenses:
Two rolls stamps to Secretary:(Vinton Dove) Prizes for Exhibit
Night:
Total$ 82.00$ 67.60$ 149.00

August Checkbook Balance$ 2,184.63
September Checkbook Balance: $ 2,118.14
I.C.C. CD Balance$18,029.00 as of June 1, 2007
Respectfully submitted,
Karl Kreck

October Program
By: David Reid

Classified Section:
Wanted - Wooden Nickels,
elongated coins, & Mardi
Gras Tokens. Call Charles:
317-856-4553
Oct
Coz Raimondi talking on “State of the Hobby”
The Monthly Planchet, October 2007

PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

Page 5

Latest word on the fate of theedge inscriptions on the
President dollars
Well it is now October and Congress once again
hasn’t finished passing the thirteen appropriations
bills that by law they have to pass by Sept 30th.
This year one of them, HR 2839, held special interest for collectors. A month and a half ago in theHouse a clause was inserted into the bill thatwould have forbidden the mint from spending any
money on producing any President dollars that had
lettering on the edge of the coin. (Note it didn’t
remove the edge inscriptions, it just stopped themint from making coins with edge inscriptions.)
Well that bill passed the House and went to the
Senate. Supposedly that bill was to come up for avote today. So I went to Thomas.gov the websitethat lets you track legislation. When I looked it up
and read it, and I found that Sec 907, which was
the clause stopping the production of the edgelettered coins has been removed from the bill by
the Senate!
Now if the Bill is passed by the Senate it may
still have to go to reconciliation to adjust for thetwo different versions of the bill, but they are not
too likely to try and reinsert the clause because
they need this bill to be passed without delay. So
at this point it looks like the edge lettering is here
to stay. For at least another year. And this isprobably a good thing because in mid September
the President signed a law changing reverse designs for the Sac dollar. And it also contained language to put the inscriptions on its edge as well.
Sec 907 would have meant they could not strikethem either.

ELECTIONS ARE COMING UP
PLEASE STEP UP AND RUN
The elections of Board and Officers of the ICC
will be at the November Meeting and we need
your support. All the offices and 3 board positions are open for nominees. That includes the
President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer,

Sergeant at Arms, Editor, and 3 Board Members. All nominees have to be in to the elections committee (Mark E. & Vinton D.) no latter than Nov. 4th 2007. We have had a few
new people step up and we are looking for a
few more. I think it would be great if we actually had more people than positions available
and have a real old time election.
The board really only meets once a year forthe annual budget/planning meeting, and therest of the business is handled by phone oremail. Each officer and board member is responsible for lining up or doing one educational program. Also each board member will
sit on at least one committee. This is an opportunity to help shape the club and the way wepromote the hobby that we all care about.
Let’s make next year a great year for the Club.
Thanks Mark E.
Continued from Page 3.

As it is with most coins you will also get a
number of die clashes and die cracks. The die
clashes refer to reverse and obverse dies thathave come in contact with each other when aplanchet is missing. This can do damage to thedies and yet they will continue to be used. The
dies will transfer such damage to the next coinstamped. Die cracks appear when a die starts toshow its age. The longer a die is used thegreater the possibility that die cracks will develop. Generally a small die crack will nothave a premium for a coin. It is only when asmall piece breaks off that a true variety willbe created. A filled “S”, which many collectors
are familiar with would be created by a die
crack. The Washington Dollar does have reports of die cracks. They include some acrosshis face, damage done to the lettering on the
obverse, and even some running all the way tothe rim.
E-bay has been selling unburnished planchet
errors for the Presidential dollars. These are
discolored planchets. Some are almost black,others are a dark brass-like color, while stillothers are very dull looking. There seem to bedozens of these specimens.

The Monthly Planchet, October 2007

PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

Page 6

ISNA EXHIBITSThe ICC is placing an exhibit in the new ISNAClub Exhibit Category. Vinton Dove, is heading up
the committee that is putting together the exhibit.
The title is “Dimes for the Beginners.” Make sure
you look for it at the show.
Also if you would like to put an exhibit out at the
ISNA show please contact me at 317-837-5682 formore information.

Editors Note:
Well, as in the past the collecting public
seems to be up in arms over the Mint andhow they handle orders and the distributionof their products.
Last month when I wrote this the Thomas
Jefferson First Spouse coins had just gone onsale, and sold out. Or at least they seemed tomaybe be sold out. As I said last month after
two hours and seventeen minutes of being onsale the mint put up, in small print, when
they accepted an order that the coin had been
oversubscribed and this order would be put
on a waiting list in case there were cancellations. But they didn’t put up a Sold Out notice on the item or stop accepting orders! In
fact they kept right on accepting orders forthe proof version of the coin for an entire
week after it sold out before they marked it“Not Available”. The Uncs were even worse.
They also began posting the waiting list
notice for them about the same time as theproof coins, but they didn’t get around tomarking them as Not Available until just a
few days ago. Almost four weeks after theysold out. They must be expecting a LOT ofcancellations.
Then came the next problem. No one
could tell if they were going to get theircoins or not. Order status kept changing
back and forth from “On Hold”, to “In
Process”, to “Reserved and In Stock”,
and then back to “On Hold” again!
When deliveries did finally begin it
was noticed that they were NOT being
delivered in the order in which the order numbers indicated.
Some people who had ordered twohours after they went on sale were receiving their coins while others who
had ordered in the first fifteen minutes
were being told their orders were stillin processing. Then last week the mint
began sending out email sold out cancellation notices to people that had ordered in the first half hour!
This may be the most mixed up offering the Mint has ever done. ANACS
has taken steps to correct two problems
it has been facing. For a long time people have complained that the new
ANACS holders were too flimsy andeasily broken open, and then fourmonths ago they had to face the problem of fake slabs coming from China.
Well they have decided to kill two
birds with one stone. During the firstweek in Sept. they introduced a newlarge sized square cornered slab, and at
the same time discontinued the small
sized slabs. From now on both problem
and problem free coins will be placedin the same type holder.

The Monthly Planchet, October 2007

PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

Page 7