A Publication of the Indianapolis Coin Club

Issue # 454

NewsletterOctober 2004

Membership numbers: ANA C-131170, CSNS L-600, ISNA LM 243
The Meetings of the Indianapolis Coin Club are held the fourth Monday of each month at the Nora Library at
8625 Guilford Avenue in Indianapolis, Indiana. The Meetings consist of a business session, an intermission,educational program, and a numismatic auction. Doors open at 6:00pm, meeting will begin at 7:00pm.

The next meeting will be Monday October 25, 2004
Last of 2004 Meeting: November 29th. December 6th is our Banquet.

“Key Date Coins Jumping by Leaps and Bounds”
Long time member of the Indianapolis Coin Club and Coin Shop Owner,
Coz Raimondi, spoke about the current “State of the Hobby” in his annualEducation Program at the September Club meeting. If you attended thismeeting, you should have a better handle on where the market is currently andwhere it is heading. If you missed this meeting, here is just a sampling of what
was discussed.
Coz spoke about the demand for nice, original coins and fresh material
needed by dealers. There is a steady upclimb in small/local shows and the thirdquarter of numismatics is picking up.
As far as United States coinage, key date coins are jumping by leaps andbounds and again people are looking for nice, original coins. There was a brief
example of every series of U.S. coinage and what is hot and what is remaining
steady. Brilliant Uncirculated Buffalo Nickels are “very, very, very strong”
Coz Raimondi speaking to the ICC. according to Coz. People are begging for Seated Liberty Quarters in Extra Fineand above. The series that is receiving the lion share of the activity is theWalking Liberty Half Dollars. Coz states that people are begging for nice coins right now. The early dates ofthis series is in real high demand. Liberty Nickels, Circulated Buffalo Nickels, Bust and Seated Dimes, andShield Nickels remain steady. The “sneaky” coin of this year is the Franklin Half Dollar. An Uncirculated set in
January of this year was valued at $325-$375, now it is $425 (wholesale)!
There is a strong market in the Bullion area. Coz gave us an example of the Bullion Market - there has been a33% rise in the price of silver so far this year. Gold remains unpredictable and Platinum was at $300-$350 inJanuary and now is at $900 an ounce.
Overall, the collector base is alive and well and there are still bargains to be found. As far as the nice stuff, youwill have to pay for it. Nice original coins and Key Date coins are out there and they are not coming down inprice. A great investment for the near future would be to buy the Key Date Coins now.

$$$$ “ALWAYS BUYING” $$$$PAYING TOP PRICES FOR ALL U.S. COINS
DON’T SELL WITHOUT GETTING OUR OFFER!!!

LARRY HYLTONBROWNSBURG, IN

ANA, ISNA-LM, CSNS-LM(317) 852-8458

VINTON G. DOVE
Certified Public Accountant
Collecting U.S. Coins Since 1952
443 Wellington Road
Indianapolis, IN 46260(317) 257-1906
Fax(317) 257-2220(317) 885-8065
885-8066 R.O.M.A. COIN

THE COIN INDEX•Coins •Stamps •Bullion •Currency•Jewelry •Supplies

BUY • SELL • APPRAISALS
Hours: M, T, Th, F 10:30 - 6:00 - Wed. & Sat. 10:30 - 3:00

857 North Madison Avenue • Greenwood, IN 46142(Between Main St. and Fry Road)
Cos Raimondi, President

Email: coinindex@sbcglobal.net

Specializing in U.S. RARE COINSORVA (ORV) DETRICK
Professional Numismatist

PO Box 267
Donnelsville, Ohio
45319-0267
Phone: 937-882-6730
Cell #: 937-284-0412
E-mail: Romacoin@aol.com
Buy/Sell Bullion: Gold & Silver

Advertise in the Indianapolis Coin Club Newsletter! The cost is only $35.00 for abusiness card size ad for 12 issues!

The 2004 Indianapolis Coin Club
Officers and Board Members
President
Vinton Dove
Vice-President
Dave Reid
Secretary
Jim Goaziou
Treasurer
Tom Ferverda
EditorAmy Eberhardt(fubacoin@aol.com) ph. (317) 837-5682
Past President
Sgt-at-Arms
Board Member 04-05
Board Member 04-05
Board Member 04-05
Board Member 03-04
Board Member 03-04
Board Member 03-04

Jim Luckey
Jim Warden
Lawrence Wistoff
Coz RaimondiCharles Alber
Karl Kreck
Donald Black
Allen DoveThe Monthly Planchet is the official publication of theIndianapolis Coin Club. It is published monthly in Indianapolis,
Indiana. All inquiries should be sent to ICC, P.O. Box 2897,
Indianapolis, Indiana, 46206.

The Monthly Planchet, October 2004

Table of Contents“State of Hobby”-CoverAdvertisers-Page 2

“Capped Bust 25c”

-Pages 3 & 4

Secretary’s Report-

Page 5

Membership Form

-Page 5

Page 2

Capped Bust Quarters
Eight years after the quarters last output, thedenomination returned to the mint's production
schedule. Since the initial quarter coinage in 1796
there
had been many changes made at the mint and in thedesigns of our nations coinage. The mint had
weathered several challenges to its existence from1800 through 1802, but by 1815, it was now
accepted as an established institution. While humanpower was still being used to strike the coins using ascrew press, the rolling operations were now
performed using a small steam engine. And in thearea of design, the work of John Reich could befound on most of the coins being struck. When adepositor ordered quarter dollars in 1815, the time
had come for Reich's capped bust design to bebrought to the only denomination on which it had
not appeared. (The mint still didn't have a bullion
fund and was dependent on depositors for silver andgold. The mint would then produce whatever
denomination the depositor ordered. Apparently
there must have been a sufficient quantity of
Mexican two reales coins in circulation since nodepositor had requested quarters for eight years.)
The Reich design depicted a left facing bust of
Liberty with curly hair wearing a phyigrian cap with
LIBERTY on the headband. Her bodice is covered
with a draping gown held by a clasp just below theshoulder. Seven six pointed stars are found along
the rim to the left side of Liberty while six stars
follow the rim to her right. The date is found below
the bust. On the reverse is a left facing defiant eaglewith wings half spread and a shield on its breast. Thecountries name arches around the rim above he eagle
and the denomination, expressed as 25C, is locatedbelow its talons. In the eagles right talon (viewersleft) is an olive branch signifying a desire for peace
and in the left are three arrows demonstrating own

The Monthly Planchet, October 2004

will to defend ourselves.
After the 1815 coins, no quarters were struck for two
more years. Part of this was probably simply because
depositors did not request them and part ofit was the destruction of the Mints rolling mill by a firein December of 1815. The rebuilding of the mill andthe replacement of the machinery took the better part of
the next year. The lack of quarters for two years musthave resulted in some pent up demand because over361,000 coins, over four times the 1815 production,
were coined in 1818. That would be the highest
mintage until 1831 and one of the highest for the entire
series. But mintage figures can be deceiving in thisseries. The 1822 shows a mintage of 64,000 but thecoin is much too available for this to be correct.
Conversely, the 1823 is much too rare for its mintage
of 17,800 to be accurate. Most likely most of the coins
reported delivered in 1823 were probably struck using
1822 dated dies. That unused 1822 dies were available
at the beginning of 1823 is shown by the one 1823 dieused being overdated on an 1822 die. The only 1824
die and the first 1825 die are likewise also overdated onunused 1822 dies. 1825 also comes overdated on anunused 1823 and 1824 dies as well.
The 1827 quarter is one of the major rarities in US
coinage. Although the mint records show a coinage of
4,000 pieces, only about a half a dozen originals (with acurled base on the 2) are known today, and all of thoseare proof coins. According to legend, four of them wereobtained by Joseph Mickley for face value during avisit to the mint in 1827. Years later the1827 restrikes were made using a different obverse diewith a square based 2. These restrikes are also proofsand only about a half dozen of these are known as well.
The size of the quarter was reduced slightly in 1831
with the introduction of a close collar. In addition asmall change was made to the reverse design with theelimination of the scroll and motto from above theeagle. The size of the letters in the legend are reduced,
and the eagle increased in size to compensate. ThePage 3

1831 comes with both large and small letters on thereverse, but even the large letters are smaller thanthose found on the 1815 - 1828 issues. From now
through the end of the series mintages are
considerably higher, with 1835 much higher
accounting for almost half of the 1831 - 38
production.
Capped Bust quarters are seldom collected bydate but are usually collected either as a single
specimen for a type coin or by specialists collecting
by die variety. Most varieties are of little interest
except to the specialist and other than the overdates
and the 1831 letter sizes mentioned earlier the only
varieties mentioned in the Redbook (A Guidebookof United States Coins by R. S. Yeoman) are the25/50 C varieties. These are found for both 1822
and six years later in 1828. Of the two, the 1828 ismuch more common, cataloging for about a fifththat of the 1822. Another set of interesting bustquarters are not die varieties, and are not found in
the Redbook. These
are the 1815 and 1825
counterstamped
quarters.
No one knows why
the coins werecounterstamped, butthey interest collectors
because they show
almost damage to thereverse of the coin.
About the only way
that this could happen
would be if the coin was resting in the reverse die atthe time it was counterstruck, and that would seemto imply that they may have been marked at theMint! It has been suggested that the letters may
have been engraved into the coin rather thanpunched and that would explain the lack of damageon the reverse.
One theory for their existence was that they were
the result of tests at the mint on an adjustment tothe coining press of L(eft), R(ight), and E(ven).
Another is that the coins were stamped to use as
academic awards for E(nglish), L(atin), and M(athematics). The problem with both of these
theories is that only L and E counterstamps are

The Monthly Planchet, October 2004

known. The R and M counterstamps that were reported
in the past were errors and do not exist. Otherquestions have been whether the same punches wereused on both years and whether the coins were punchedin the year of issue or if coins from both years werepunched at the same time.
Examination of several specimens (8 coins, 2 of eachletter for each date) of the coins show that the punches
are relatively broad with vertical sides and flatbottoms. Every coin shows a slight bulge on thereverse and a deformation around the letter on theobverse. This definitely shows that the letters werepunched and not engraved. On the flat bottom of eachof the letters are raised lines that prove that the exact
same punches were used on both the 1815 and the 1825
coins and there does not appear to be any wear
differences on the punches. This would tend to indicatethat the coins were counterstamped at the same timerather than ten years apart. This would also mean thatthey were almost certainly not counterstamped at themint. The mint at thattime did not have a bullion
fund with which to buy
silver and strike coins on
their own account. Instead,they had to depend onoutside depositors. Since
all the silver would bereturned to the depositor itis very unlikely that themint would have had 1815
quarters still sitting aroundten years later andavailable for counterstamping. This would be much
more likely for a private individual. But how would aprivate citizen solve the problem of preventing thereverse from bulging during the punching?
The answer can probably be found in the early mints
practice of selling off old retired dies as scrap metal.
Although the dies were no longer suitable for striking
circulation coinage, they were by no means unusable.
Joseph Mickley, an early collector, had acquired many
mint dies and used them to create various "restrikes".
Mickley did have a quarter reverse die in his holdings
and could very easily have been the source of thecounterstamped coins.

Page 4

Secretary’s Reportfor the meeting on
September 27th 2004

President Dove opened the meeting at
7:05pm. Secretary and Treasurer reports
were presented and approved as read.
The new (most recent) Jefferson Nickel
design was announced and each person present received anew Lewis and Clark bicentennial nickel compliments ofI.C.C.
Two upcoming coin shows were announced and flyers
were available for one at Logansport and the I.S.N.A.
show November 5th and 6th.
Jim Goaziou updated the club about educationalpresenters for upcoming meetings.
Mark Huber was welcomed as a first time visitor.
Coz Raimondi presented a discussion on the state of thecoin market observing that dealers are looking for new
material, that key date U.S. coins are in very highdemand and that prices - both buy and sell - are very high
now and in some cases still moving higher. He thenreviewed each U.S. Coin type with comments on thepresent and expected future prices of these coins in themarketplace.
The dealer bourse was manned by Sam Taylor, MarkEberhardt, Jim Fuson and John Sundt. An auction wascalled by Mark Eberhardt assisted by Vinton Dove andAllen Dove.
The meeting was dismissed at 8:45pm by President
Dove.
Respectfully Submitted,J.W. Goaziou
Secretary

46th Annual Indiana
State Coin Show
When: November 5th & 6th
Where: Indianapolis Marriott
7202 E. 21st Street

Times: Friday 10am - 6pm
Saturday 10am - 5pm

Don’t miss this Show!!!
The Educational
Program for October -Mark Eberhardt“How to Deal with Dealers”

PLEASE CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE ICC WITH YOUR DUESYour Name_______________________________________________________________Your Address ____________________________________________________________
City_____________________________ State __________ Zip ____________________
Ph. Number _____________________________ Member # _______________________

E-Mail Address ________________________________________________MEMBERS - $12.00

The Monthly Planchet, October 2004

JUNIORS - $5.00

Page 5