17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun
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Thursday, 01 January 2009 13:57 - Last Updated Sunday, 12 August 2012 13:55

The 17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun

Like the 2 Pounder the 17 Pounder was originally planned tobe a tank gun, in April 1941 the question of a weapon toreplace the 6 Pounder was debated at a meeting by the Design
Department and the artillery and tank branches of both the War
Office and the Ministry of Supply. A this meeting it was decided
that the new gun design must aim to be one piece common toboth tank and anti-tank mountings and penetration of between

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17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun
Written by Administrator
Thursday, 01 January 2009 13:57 - Last Updated Sunday, 12 August 2012 13:55

120-150mm - this would require a 3" gun firing a 17lb shell ataround 2700fps. It was agreed that the carriage to mount thegun was to be of split-trial type and have a transverse of 60
degrees.

The prototypes were created and trials were completed at thebeginning of 1942 and orders were placed. The first production
guns were completed in April 1942 and by the end of the year
670 of the guns had been completed. There seems to be a lotof confusion as to the 17 Pounder carriage, the first production
17pdr carriages were completed in May 1942 but production
was extremely slow, when the War Office issued urgent
demands for 17 Pounder guns to be sent to North Africa there
was not enough carriages available to mount the guns required
so guns were mounted on 25 Pounder carriages instead, thesewere known as 25/17pdr carriages, codename Pheasant. 150of these carriages were ordered and this order was completed
by December 1942. In October 1942, 59 17 Pounder and27,000 rounds of ammunition were shipped to the Middle East,
I have not yet found the exact date of the guns arrival but they
were definitely present by the end of December. InNovember/December a further 40 guns were sent.

Concerns were raised at the weight of the equipment which
would be around 3 tons, it was realised that this would clearly
limit the mobility of the weapon and create delays when getting

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17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun
Written by Administrator
Thursday, 01 January 2009 13:57 - Last Updated Sunday, 12 August 2012 13:55

the weapon into and out of action and make concealment
difficult. Due to these issues it was decided to mount the gunsin a self propelled chassis, it was clear that no existing tankcould accommodate the gun, the new cruiser tanks (Cavalierand Cromwell) had turrets designed around the 6pdr and theirturret ring was too small (57.2") to mount the gun without
crippling fighting efficiency. In the winter of 1941-1942 steps
were taken to investigate a tank which could carry the newgun, by March 1942 this had crystallised into the A.30, thisreached the prototype stage by August 1942 when production
possibilities were being examined. This tank would later be
accepted into service as the Challenger in 1944.

Many suggestions had been made for S.P. AT guns, originally it
had been hoped that this requirement would be met by the US
M10 but by July 1942 it was clear that there was no hope ofgetting these vehicles in quantity before 1943 so it became
imperative to get a S.P. mounting for the 17pdr which was abetter gun than the US 3" anyway. Both the Valentine andCrusader were investigated, the Crusader due to its high powerto weight ratio and it's mobility and the Valentine due to it'sreliability and low profile. It was decided against the Crusader
as it would have required the gun to be mounted in an exposed
position with the minimum amount of protection. Other chassis
investigated included the Canadian Ram. The Valentine wasaccepted with a longer term project which involved theCromwell.

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17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun
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Thursday, 01 January 2009 13:57 - Last Updated Sunday, 12 August 2012 13:55

Further work was done on the problems of installing 17pdrs in atank mounting, the guns were modified considerably tofacilitate this work, principally this involved the adoption of aless bulky breech mechanism. In August 1943 the mounting of
the 17pdr in a Sherman turret was pressed forward urgently aswell as the mounting of 17pdrs in the M10. Firing trials of 17pdr
mounted in the Sherman were completed in December 1943
and the first 20 vehicles were converted in January followed by
the M10 in March. By the end of May 1944 527 vehicles
mounted the 17pdr gun, by end of June this had risen to 831
and by the end of the May 1945 over 4000 vehicles mounted a
17pdr gun, also 743 Comets with a less powerful 17pdr variant
had been completed.

The gun mounted on the Comet tank had a smaller breech
block to enable it to be fitted inside the turret and cartridges
from the 3" AA gun were used. The weapon fired the same
projectiles as the regular 17pdr but as the cartridge wasdifferent the ammunition was not interchangeable, although thesame calibre as the 17pdr the gun was named the 77mm HV inorder to prevent confusion over ammunition supplies. Thesmaller cartridge meant a lower muzzle velocity and thus adecrease in performance compared with a regular 17pdr.

17 Pounder Ammunition

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17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun
Written by Administrator
Thursday, 01 January 2009 13:57 - Last Updated Sunday, 12 August 2012 13:55

Both AP and APC ammunition were asked for at the same timein August 1941 with designs being completed by December.
The first 10,000 AP rounds were delivered in June 1942 andfirst filling for service took place in September, first APC
ammunition was filled in October 1942. APCBC ammunition
was requested in the Summer of 1943 and first deliveries took
place in the Spring of 1944. The original HE ammunition was
found to be somewhat lacking so a reduced charge version
was provided in the Summer of 1944, followed later in the year
by a high capacity version. APDS based on the 6pdr APDS
design was made available in June 1944 with the firstammunition being filled for service in July.

17 Pounder Gun variants-Mk I - original version
Mk II - intended for tank use (Challenger)
Mk III - for navy unused
Mk IV - for Sherman
Mk V - for M10
Mk VI - shorter breech block, for tanksMk VII - for Sherman

17 Pounder Carriage and Gun data

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17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun
Written by Administrator
Thursday, 01 January 2009 13:57 - Last Updated Sunday, 12 August 2012 13:55

Carriage
Mk I
Weight4700lb
Gun weight1820lb(Mk I)
0 degrees,
Transverse
30 left and 30 right
Elevation
16.5 degrees
Depression
6 degreeseight (over gunshield)
63.25"
Width 88"
ength (tail to289.5"
muzzle)Bore3"(76.2mm)
Length
165.45"of Bore(55 cal)Rifling
20, 1 turn in 30"
Sighting Telescope
No.41, No.5177mm HV Gun data

mplete gun/breech
1502lbweightgth (with muzzle
165.5"break)Bore3"(76.2mm)
1300
Probableroundslifefull charge
17 pdr/77mm Projectiles

DiameterNatureBody
Projectile
LengthandBursting
overDiameterMarkdrivingweightcharge
band
igh Explosive
11.16"
2.99"
3.155"
15.4lb
1.28lb
1.T
igh Explosive
9.28"
2.99"
3.155"
13.34lb
1.08lb
2.T
our Piercing
10.18"
2.99"
3.155"
Shot
17lb-3.T
our Piercing
10.18"
2.99"
3.155"
16.98lb
Shot-6.T

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17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun
Written by Administrator
Thursday, 01 January 2009 13:57 - Last Updated Sunday, 12 August 2012 13:55

ercing Shot
9.71"
2.99"
3.155"
16.95lb
with -Cap 1.T.
ercing Shot
9.73"
2.99"
3.155"
with17lb-Cap 4.T.
ercing Shot
9.73"
2.99"
3.155"
16.98lb
with -Cap 7.T.
A.P.C.B.C.
12.5"
2.99"
3.155"
8.T.
17lbA.P.D.S. 1.T.
7.625
Penetration of the 17 pdr and 77mm guns (MQ plate, 30
degrees)Ammunition
MuzzleWeight500
1000
Velocity
2000
yards
yards
yards
AP
12900fps
7lb 118
11089
APC
17lb
2900fps
121
10984
APCBC
17lb2900fps
140
131
111
APDS
7.625lb
3950fps
209
192
161
77mm APCBC
17lb
2575fps
120
11090
77mm
7.625lb
APDS
182
165
130
17 Pounder Carriage and Gun production by year (UK only)

19421945
1943
1944(End of May)
5/17 pdr 150Carriage- 17 pdr carriage
352
3,280
1,860
146
17 pdr AT
699
3,558
Guns
1,641
NF
7 pdr Tank
2259
Guns
3,789
1,139
7mm Tank- Guns
-360
17 Pounder Ammunition and 77mm production by year (Filled

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17 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun
Written by Administrator
Thursday, 01 January 2009 13:57 - Last Updated Sunday, 12 August 2012 13:55

only, UK only)

Ammunition
1942
1945(End1943
1944 of May)
116,000
AP863,000
- APC
6,000
834,000
679,000
APCBC- 510,000- 189,000
APDS- 37,000- 140,000
67,000HE(incomplete103,000- data)
HE RC- 160,000- 63,000
HE HC Super- - 145,000
77mm Ammunition production by year (Filled only, UK only)
Ammunition
1945(End1944 of May)
APCBC
140,000
105,000
APDS
10,00039,000108,000
HE14,000
HERC- 22 -511-514
39,400HE HCSuper
41,000Sources
Comet Handbook, 17pdr Handbook, AVIA 46 187,
AVIA

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