Photonic Materials
Professor MIYANO, Kenjiro

Paving a New Road as both a Researcher and the Director of the ResearchCenter for Advanced Science and Technology

Interviewer: Tohru Ifukube, professor

Light and material: an exploration ofunresolved domains

particles.
Presently, it is explained that most electronics do not need̶̶ I imagine you must be busy with your double role as

this correlation and that it need not be considered for themboth a researcher and as the center's director so I appreciate

to be used. However, on the other hand, if the correlation is

your taking time today to tell us about your research andstrong, for instance, a material becomes an insulator or metal

the motivation behind that research. First, could you please

when struck by light. While this is not a regular phenomenon,explain in basic terms what kind of research you are currently

surprisingly it is also not very distinctive. It is, rather,undertaking?

something that until now has not been well understoodand therefore has not been researched, but research andIn the larger framework, my research belongs to theexperimental methods have been expanded and theoreticalexperimental fields of the material sciences and solid-state

frameworks have broadened. As a result of both of thesephysics. Of the fields concerned with materials (i.e. theirdevelopments, this area has become the object of scientificphysical properties), there is both science and engineering.

inquiry.

Though there is not much of a divide between the two, thesciences examine the principles behind why things happen

Though magnetism is the oldest known phenomenon of

the way they do, and engineering considers their applications.

electronic correlation, in the past this was not recognized withthe word "electronic correlation." That is, what has generally

To give one example, the late John Bardeen was awarded twobeen called magnetism until now is actually nothing otherNobel Prizes in physics. The first prize was for his practicalthan a strong correlation and is perhaps correctly thought ofcontribution of inventing the transistor, and his second prize

as a new way of recognizing an old phenomenon.

was for his theoretical research on superconductivity. In thisway, there is a considerable relationship between whether

The biggest breakthrough was twenty-one years ago withsomething is useful and whether a material is interesting, so

the discovery of high-temperature superconductivity. At thatthe boundary between utility and theory is not all that distinct.

time, physics was absolutely incapable of understanding
this discovery, but from there experimental methods andCurrently, one of the research trends in the material sciences

theoretical frameworks have advanced and we are now

a r e t h e p h e n o mena expressed by the term 'strongly

extending its implications.

correlated.' All material is completely determined by the stateof its electrons so when the degree of mutual correlation

̶̶ Turning metal into a nonconductive substance or turning

between one electron and another is strong it is said to bea nonconductor into metal is, for instance, the same as waterstrongly correlated. The reverse case is when there is no such(a fluid) becoming steam (a gas) or ice (a solid), isn't it? Iscorrelation. To put it differently, this is the condition when theit that this phenomenon occurs because water has strong

electrons within a material behave as if they were isolatedcorrelation?

1

living as a novelist. Another reason for abandoning my desire
Water becomes ice when fellow molecules recognize their

to be a novelist was that in reading chronologically throughneighboring molecules and form a solid. However, water

the history of Japanese literature, at about the period of Katai

remains a fluid even if there is no such recognition. With

Tayama's and Hakucho Masamune's naturalism, I got fed up

electrons it is the same. There are two possible conditions:with it all...I mean what's so interesting about self-confession?

it is either important that there is another electron nearby or

At that point, I thought there is no way I'd become a novelist.

it does not matter at all. Usually, electrons in a metal are in a

But, I still had the desire to make a living by writing so I

free state where, if a switch is not thrown, the state does notthought about becoming a literary critic, but during highstop (i.e. it doesn't become insulated). However, supposing

school I read the essay "Multiple Designs" (Samazama na isho )there is a condition where fellow electrons could inform eachby Hideo Kobayashi and really felt that with my limited smarts

other to stop on a dime, it would be possible then, because of

I could never become a literary critic. For me it would be

the electrons themselves, for them to become either a metal

impossible.

or an insulator.
Also, since I was young I'd liked science. Now when I think
This topic is currently a strong research trend within

about it the experiment was quite dangerous, but when I was

the material sciences and we would like to gain insightin the fourth grade of elementary school I used lye to makeon these phenomena, but, since the high-temperaturesoap. I was also interested in science since you can find asuperconductivity that was the start of this research, not muchcertain kind of world and have fun with that world on yourhas been learned and as ever little is understood. Ordinary

own. So, thinking I could at least become a science reportersuperconductivity until now conformed to a formula andfor a newspaper, I enrolled in a freshman science class, but

is understood through explanations based on quantum

one thing led to another, and here I am today.

mechanics. However, high-temperature superconductivity
cannot be understood with that thinking and it turns out̶̶ B y t h e w a y , y o u w e n t a b r o a d i m m e d i a t e l y a f t e r

to be a very complex system. With various factors mixing

graduating in engineering physics, right? What was theand interacting together, this phenomenon does not occur

motive behind that?

without these factors understanding all of these interactions.
Therefore, it is a fundamentally complex system. At thisJust at that time, there was the so-called campus unrest, and I

point, we don't even know how to write a formula for thesereally felt something was lacking with the irresolute stance ofphenomena. But, of course, there are some rules that apply.

professors in Japan. So, I told a professor that I was thinking
about looking for a job after graduation. "You're not suited̶̶ If in the future it becomes possible to use light to control afor company life," he replied and instead suggested I go tophase transition caused by this strong correlation, what kinds

America. Of course, there was research that I wanted to do,of applications do you see for this research?

but at the time, had he not said anything, I think I would havegotten a job at a company.

Within this strong correlation, there is the phenomenon
where by sending a current in one direction it becomes metal,

̶̶ How do you feel about the differences between Japanand when sending it the opposite direction it becomes anand overseas?

insulator. This kind of thing can act as a very simple kind ofmemory. In other words, a memory can be made by justIn terms of academia, there is almost no difference. Whether

connecting an electrode, but, when compared with thea person from a foreign country comes to Japan or a Japanesememory of today's semiconductors that write and delete at

person goes to a foreign country, I don't think there is any

a rate of one-million cycles per second, this won't compete.

feeling of discomfort.

For that reason, while this is an interesting phenomenon,
economically it is not likely to be feasible. And, in this sense, I

Speaking of the good and the bad, the good part of Japando not know where this research can be applied.

is that it is not an overly competitive society. When I was in

In pursuit of an inner world order: the roadfrom aspiring novelist to physics engineering

America, I had constant stomach pain, but upon returning toJapan this completely disappeared. There was no one thing inparticular. It was just that there was always pressure.

̶̶ When looking at your research, there is that aspect whereIn any society, there is always the chance of losing your job.

I am somewhat envious that in your field you can clear

When I was at the Argonne National Laboratory in the United

things through proof, but didn't you also aspire to become

States, a post-doc researcher could be ﬁred if the group leader

a novelist? It seems, though, that your current research andsaid "you are ﬁnished." You need a laboratory director to ﬁrethe novel's complete disconnect from scientific proof are in

an assistant professor and, though with an associate professor

opposite worlds...

or above it is of course more difficult, you can always
terminate someone. You see, to make a person work, it is best

Basically, it's that I like being alone. And, it's that, if I had theto have them think that they can be ﬁred at any time. That'sability, I wanted to become a mathematician. I simply thought

why American researchers work really hard, but whether thatthat the mathematician's work dealt with the perfect world

makes for good research or not is another issue. In that sense,within oneself. This shares some similarity with the novelist inI think it was good that I returned to Japan.

that they construct this kind of world all by themselves. But,at some point, I thought again that it's quite hard to earn a

Conversely, in Japan, nothing is said even when a person is2

imposing an obvious drawback to an organization. That's notsciences must do things together. Then again, for instance, atgood. It creates a very difﬁcult situation for an organization,

the Center we are hosting the Intellectual Cafe. The other day,and in America those kinds of people deﬁnitely would not be

the topic was about the discharge of carbon dioxide gas, butable to make it.

with that topic there are important crossover questions suchas the technological factor of where to put the discharged

̶̶ Japan also is trying to adopt America's competitive

carbon dioxide gas, the economic factor of achieving thesystem, but how were evaluations done?

target ﬁgures for reduced discharge, and the diplomatic factorof how to take the initiative on international negotiations.

Argonne National Laboratory is a large research center

Perhaps, it is only at the Center where these questions can bewith four to five thousand employees, but it is the directors

discussed at the same place and from multiple perspectives.

of research divisions that decide everything. Level ofadministrative contribution, number of published papers, andElsewhere, regarding education, we have curriculum

number of invited lectures were used as criterion, and thediscussions. On the education side, systematic reform issalaries were also assessed using these criteria.

necessary, including whether it is good or not to have classes

E s tablishing a s ys tem with a high degreeof freedom and reviewing the educational
curriculum: What is the systematic reform for
the Research Center for Advanced Science andTechnology?

that are in the interdisciplinary omnibus-manner that is said
to be becoming of the Center. The biggest difficulty is thatstudents' interests are narrow. Even with talk that is unrelated
to their field, I think somehow they have to interact. It's notwhether you know or don't know something; it's a partof one's intellect. Training people to be able to properly
communicate, I think, is an important role for the Center.

̶̶ Even for the Center, systemic reform is one of its missions.
As its director, what is your thinking about this?

̶̶Lastly, how are you doing in your double role as both aresearcher and the director?

I think the ideal form for an organization is the situation where
one does not feel constrained and can do their job at their

Presently, it is kind of hard to say whether or not I'm doing

full strength. A degree of freedom is real important. Because

double duty, but at least it is not as bad as thought it might

people demonstrate their abilities when they are doing what

be. The reason for that is clearly the quality of the staff.

they want to be doing, it's not effective to have a management

When there is an unresolved issue, it is sent to the person inapproach where people feel they must do certain things.

charge and some proposal emerges. At those times, there

While I won't go against the way things are done now, you

are two important things. The first are those things internal

could say that, at least within acceptable limits, my manifesto

to the Center that have to be understood and written about.

is "to make a system with the highest degree of freedom."

The other thing is the understanding of the background ofa problem. In order to keep continuous track of a problem,

As a specific policy, the management of effort percentages

energy has to be focused on it, but not having to do thatallows, for instance, a way of working where one puts 50%

makes it very easy. This is not only the case for me; I think it isof their effort toward their professorial work at the Center

true for the entire Center. I want everyone to realize that ourand 50% elsewhere. I believe it will not be long before thisstaff reduces the workload of the Center's faculty members. It

policy will be realized. However, the problem is that when thisreally is a reduction in work for us.

becomes disconnected from personnel expenses including
retirement benefits, there is considerable resistance against̶̶ I was worried about the stress of your taking on thethe policy. As someone who experienced the period of

position of director, but now I'm somewhat relieved. I

campus unrest, I don't think that the world is always stable.

certainly hope that you will not only continue your work as

Rather than drive on a road that is already paved, it is better todirector, but also in research, as you also mentioned there ispave the road yourself. It is my philosophy that it is better tostill so much that is not understood. So, please devote somethink about planning for the future. But you can't force peopleof your energy to your research and also continue provide us

too much...

with your leadership. Thank you.

̶̶Well, the Center is a place where people research with(August 10, 2007)

others in different fields, but actually I get the feeling thatwhen one gets too removed from one's specialization it is
difﬁcult to harmonize with other ﬁelds. The same is true withLinks

education. While in America and elsewhere students are
educated to look at things broadly, in Japan they suddenly

Miyano Lab

jump into a specialization. What are your thoughts on

http://www.myn.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp/index.html.en

education at the Center?
First, I actually don't really understand what is referred toby the merger of the humanities and sciences. If there areproblems due to the division between the humanities andsciences, it is alright to ﬁx those, but I absolutely don't believe
there is an unspoken agreement that the humanities and3