Photo-Functionalized Materials
Professor HASHIMOTO, KazuhitoWith a Focus on Nurturing Talent and Increasing Flexibility, RCAST Takes the
Next Step

Interviewer: Takashi Mikuriya, professor

̶̶ This time, I'd like to talk to you as the director of RCAST

direction the organization was heading in. That is why werather than as a researcher. You became director in Aprilestablished a new seven-member management strategy

2004, the same time that Japan's national universities werecommittee consisting of the director, the assistant director,

reorganized as corporations, so why don't you start by telling

an adviser to the university president, a faculty member inme about the impact that incorporation has had on RCAST?

charge of personnel and another in charge of management
strategy, and the office manager. The faculty and the office

The first thing I would point to is the fact that the system atstaff had always remained separate, so including the office

RCAST changed when the universities were incorporated,manager was revolutionary. The idea was to use a system ofwith three extremely important powers--specifically, powergroup leadership to run RCAST, but with the director holding

over the budget, personnel, and allocation of space--shifting

the responsibility. I'm keenly aware of the signiﬁcance of thatfrom the faculty to the director. I suppose RCAST is the only

responsibility.

institution at the University of Tokyo where such changes
took place, and I don't think there is anywhere else in JapanThe second impact is that, since incorporation actually means

where so much power was put in the director's hands. In

that the University of Tokyo became a single corporation,

the first place, one of the fundamental concepts behind

departments like RCAST represent no more than one

incorporation was to give university presidents the type of

institution within that larger corporation. The situation was

power and authority I've just described and allow them tothe same before, but after privatization I feel that the status

run their universities based on their own judgment. RCAST

of RCAST within the university became more clearly deﬁned.

took the initiative in that regard, with decisions being madeUntil recently, and particularly at RCAST, management could

from the top down rather than reconciling interests fromstay one step ahead of the University of Tokyo and thethe bottom up. The director was given the power to run theuniversity would follow. But now that RCAST exists withinorganization in an ideal way while maintaining a sense of

the clearly defined framework of the corporation calledsocial responsibility. On the other hand, these changes meant

the University of Tokyo, there's a chance that we mightthat the director would be ﬁred if he didn't do a good job.

lose support if we run alone without cooperating with thehead office. Then again, we face the dilemma that RCAST

In some ways, this significant reform was possible precisely

could lose its identity if we cooperate too much, and we arebecause it was attempted at RCAST. That is, we were able

thinking even more carefully about how to lead the way while

to introduce institutional changes without encountering

maintaining the administration's understanding.

significant resistance because the scholars affiliated with
RCAST conduct research in a wide variety of fields, whichmeans that their interests do not conflict. Shifting functions
previously performed by the faculty to the director was an

The Frontrunner in Universit y-Industr y
Collaboration Now Focusing on Nur turing
Talentimportant institutional change because it meant that thedirector was quite free to issue orders that could change the̶̶ In the past, there were some ways in which RCAST was a1frontrunner in university-industry collaboration, but recently̶̶ At RCAST, there is a graduate course in "Advanced

I've had the impression that you've been raising the alarmInterdisciplinary Studies (AIS)," isn't there? What is your vision

about collaborations that are too simplistic and steering

for the future of this program?

RCAST toward entering collaborative agreements only after aﬁrm foundation has been established. Is that accurate?

Actually, RCAST is the only research center in the country with
its own graduate school. Strictly speaking, the graduate course

That's exactly right. Within the University of Tokyo--within

belongs to the research department, so RCAST does not havethe entire Japanese university system, for that matter--its own graduate school. However, thanks to the tireless

RCAST has always led the way in terms of university-industry

efforts of the faculty from the center's inception, we have beencollaboration, having created related organizations like CASTI

able to devise a revolutionary system where the "Department[Center for Advanced Science and Technology Incubation]of Advanced Interdisciplinary Studies" was created within

and ASTEC [Advanced Science and Technology Enterprisethe engineering school, yet RCAST faculty actually run the

Corporation]. Personally, I have been aggressively pursuing

department.

such collaborative projects since the 1990s, and I have always
felt that Japanese universities, including the University ofInitially, the department was distinguished by the fact thatTokyo, should do a better job of collaborating with industry.

it was intended for working professionals, but now that

Recently, however, I have a feeling that we may have gone

professionals taking graduate courses have become the norm,

too far.

I think that the question of how to distinguish the departmentin that regard is going to become an extremely important

Actually, there used to be a sense that university-industry

strategic problem. For example, the department might get

collaboration was not a good thing, and when I would meet

involved in teaching and personnel exchanges in collaboration

with businesspeople in the 1990s, we held our discussions

with other universities, including private universities. It couldin secret on Saturday evenings. And then, sometime aroundbe used as a place for corporate researchers to brush up on

1995, collaborations started being treated positively, andtheir education, and faculty might give on-site lectures for

RCAST broke new ground by establishing CASTI. Now,

corporations. These are some of the ways that I'm thinking

with incorporation and a sluggish Japanese economy, thethe department could be turned into a meeting place for thegovernment is investing more in universities. Not only isdifferent needs that universities and corporations have forthere a trend to expect universities to produce returns on

nurturing new talent.

those investments, but now universities are even being told
to collaborate with industry in order to make money and put
those proﬁts back into society. That is not a bad thing in itself,

The Mission of RCAST: Incubation, and Bringing
Science and the Humanities Together

but I think that universities have a different duty to perform.
̶̶ Another of the distinguishing characteristics of RCAST is
That is, a university's first priority should be to nurture newthat it has a system where faculty are appointed for limited

talent through education. Pathbreaking interdisciplinary

terms. With this system, scholars devote themselves to theirresearch comes second, and university-industry collaboration

research during their terms of employment, and then theyis ultimately just one way of conducting such research.

return to their original employers or seek out new places toCollaborations can be evaluated in part on the question ofwork. I imagine that other universities are going to adopt this"How much will they contribute to society?", but within thesystem as well, but how do you think the system will change

university as a whole, the weight of that question should beat RCAST in the future?

relatively small. If the question becomes "How much money
can we make?", then our priorities are all wrong. It's ﬁne forThis is an extremely important issue, one that we are still

universities to generate income, but I think that schools are

discussing at RCAST, and fundamentally, I think it gets toreally on the wrong track if making money is their objective,

the question of what RCAST's mission should be. With thejust like corporations.

incorporation of national universities that took place in 2004,
RCAST ceased to be a facility that was used jointly by the

Getting back to the subject of RCAST, I want us to conceive

whole university, and it acquired a new status as an attachedof university-industry collaboration differently than we

research institute. As a shared-use facility, RCAST had to be

have in the past. Specifically, I have two things in mind.

flexible, but once it became a research institute, I think thatFirst, we should limit our participation to collaborations that

there were expectations not only that fresh new discoveries

are realistic, where working together provides benefits forwould be made, but also that the institute would not fail toeveryone involved. Second, we should use collaboration to

fulﬁll the mission it was given at the time of its establishment.

nurture new talent rather than to make money. On one hand,

That meant that it was necessary to remind ourselves once

we aim to nurture students, who should gain knowledge ofagain about what the mission of RCAST was supposed to be.

the corporate world from these collaborative projects andbecome active in that world after graduating. On the otherI think that RCAST has two missions. The first is to serve

hand, corporate personnel come to the university, where theyas what might be called an incubation facility, with RCAST

do research and receive education, learning things that can

researchers constantly pursuing groundbreaking research,

only be learned at the university that they then take back totransplanting that research to other institutions when it starts

the corporation. I think that the next mission for RCAST is toto produce some results, and then moving on to the next

shift university-industry collaboration in this direction, toward

project. In terms of personnel, when faculty come from othernurturing new talent.

departments within the university, for example, they should

2conduct their research within RCAST's free environment andhaving RCAST do whatever it feels like, only to have progressthen take what they've started back to their own department

made here disappear before anyone realizes what happened.

when that research starts to blossom. In the case of faculty

I think that would be the best shortcut to getting the UT

invited from other universities, they should break newcommunity to recognize what RCAST is doing.

ground at RCAST, then take everything they've started to thenext suitable place, where they can develop their work even

Even now, RCAST is a significant presence within thefurther. I think that one way to understand RCAST's mission isuniversity, but it's a fact that part of that presence includes theto see it as a place where development is always occurring.

idea that "RCAST is a weird place." That was one of the goodthings about RCAST, but I have a feeling that this stance is

The other major mission is to promote harmony between

going to change now that the national universities have beenscience and the humanities, a mission that sets RCAST apartincorporated. You could say that this is a good opportunity

as a research institute. For example, there is the "Project forfor RCAST. I think that the situation is going to change, andthe Safety and Security of Individuals and Society" that is led

the new things that RCAST has been attempting will spreadby you, Professor Mikuriya, and which involves researchers

throughout the university. RCAST won't be the only place tofrom a variety of fields. Basing our work on those keywords

change. I think that the entire University of Tokyo, and all of"Individual and Society," we need to clearly define ourJapan in turn, will change too.

mission from a unique angle and truly bring sciences andthe humanities together, both in name and in reality. It's not̶̶ The adjunct faculty system is probably one sign of that

normal for a political scientist like yourself to work in theimpending change. It's a system that got its start at RCAST

same research center as someone like me, who's involved in

and is spreading to other universities. The Strategic Researchphysics and chemistry. To put it another way, RCAST itself isCenter Development (Super COE) Project was a symbol oflike a small liberal arts university. I think we should aspire tothat new system, and now the project is just one year away

become a research center that takes advantage of that quality.

from ending. Would you mind giving a basic overview of the
project?

̶̶ You referred to RCAST as a unique place, and also as justone part of the University of Tokyo. How would you say that

The Super COE project started four years ago, in 2001, with athe projects being undertaken at RCAST are viewed by thebudget of approximately one billion yen [roughly 9.3 million

university as a whole?

USD] in grants-in-aid for promoting science and technology.
Under the leadership of Nanya Takashi, the director of RCAST

After I became the director, what surprised me in meetings

at the time, nearly 70 percent of that budget of slightly lesswith the UT administration and meetings outside thethan one billion yen was used for labor costs, a watershed

university was the gap in the way RCAST is assessed at thedecision that was apparently beyond MEXT [Ministry

university versus the way it is seen from the outside. (laughs)of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology]
expectations. That money was used to introduce a system of

I guess I'd say that outside the university, RCAST has a good

appointing adjunct faculty who were not part of the regular

reputation as a place that's different from UT, a place where

academic staff, and currently RCAST has sixty of these adjunctinnovative work is done, while within the university, RCAST

faculty members. That is roughly the same number of regular

gets a somewhat cold reception. They see us as being

faculty employed with state subsidies, which means thatdifferent too, but the attitude is something like, "I'm not

RCAST approximately doubled in size at the beginning of thesure what they're talking about, but it's RCAST, so I guess it's

Super COE project. That is, RCAST became twice as powerful,ok." We have a good reputation outside the university for

and in fact, the amount of outside funding we have secured

being different, so it's only natural that we developed a badsince the beginning of the Super COE project has doubled as

reputation inside the university for not ﬁtting in. Still, I've beenwell.

surprised at how big this gap in perception can be. Of course,
we don't have to cater to the views of the administration and

What should we do now that the program is almost over?

other departments, but we should try to give them a solid

There's no point if all of these twofold increases go back to

grasp of RCAST's mission and help them recognize us in anormal after the program ends, so I think it's our mission--ourmore positive light as an organization involved in activities,

duty, really--to figure out how to maintain that new power.

management practices, and research that are not possible inThat doesn't mean that we aim to ﬁx people in place. I thinkother departments.

that the transfer of personnel that will occur when the sixty
adjunct researchers who were trained here move on to their

Currently, we have delivered a proposal to the UT

next places of employment, and the expansion of the newadministration. We're asking them to create a variety offields they cultivated during their tenure here, are the twosystems within the university and give each department

biggest challenges RCAST faces now. The adjunct faculty

the option of adopting one of the systems. We want themsystem started at RCAST, so I think that if we can get theto introduce a non-uniform system where, for example,

adjunct researchers to make a smooth transition into the next

the system that RCAST opted for could spread to otherstage of their careers, the system will really take hold. To thatdepartments if it works out well.

end, we are thinking of ways that RCAST can function as a gobetween to help them in that process.

̶̶ This idea of an "option" system makes a lot of sense.
It sounds like you're saying that you want a system that is

In addition, considering the fact that a variety of new fields

as free as possible, within a certain framework, rather thandeveloped thanks to the twofold increase in outside funding,3I want to promote the effort to devote all of our energy
to creating a foundation for those new fields to become
established in society, with RCAST playing a central role in thateffort. There may be some shrinkage once we lose the grantsin-aid that were part of the Super COE project, but I thinkthat most of the significant gains will remain at RCAST. I'm
counting on you [Prof. Mikuriya] to help us! (laughs)̶̶ (laughs) Finally, I wonder if you could tell me about a day,or a week, in the life of the RCAST director.
In the past, I was working on the front lines of research, sowhen I was appointed as director, I was quite concerned
about how I would balance my research with my new
responsibilities. When I decided to accept the position, I was
thinking it would be ideal if I could spend half of my time on
research and half of my time on my duties as the director, butthat in reality I would probably spend seventy percent of mytime on my work as director and thirty percent on research.
Now, however, I spend about ninety-eight percent of mytime on my administrative work, and about two percent on
research?quite a miscalculation! (smiles) I'm near the end of
the second year of a three-year term, and it's a serious thing
to stay away from the lab for two years. I'm always worried
that if this goes on for another year, it might be the end of mycareer as a researcher. I feel that I have to do my best because
RCAST is in the midst of a critical period of reform, and it's also
in my nature as a researcher to devote myself to the duties I'm
assigned and get absorbed in the work. I didn't mean to let itgo this far, but I really have lost myself in the job.
As for my current lifestyle, I spend thirty percent of my timein the director's office, thirty percent visiting Kasumigaseki[where many government ministries are located] and private
corporations in my capacity as director, and about thirty
percent in meetings on the Hongo campus and at otherlocations. In general, each of these three categories takes up
about one-third of my time. I've always been one to stay up
late, but now I stay in the director's office every night until
eleven or twelve o'clock without once returning to the lab--atruly sad life. Everyone, please take pity on me! (laughs)(June 1, 2005)

Links
RCAST
http://www.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp
Hashimoto Laboratory
http://www.light.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/

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