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Pages: 1time may not be real...relevant for astrology? (Read 503 times)

Matrika Matters
Membertime may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« on: 02.07.2018 at 05:32 [UT+1] »https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029410-900-saving-time-physics-killed-i t-do-weneed-it-back/Posts: 7405

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afternoon sun

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Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #1 - on: 02.07.2018 at 05:44 [UT+1] »A lovely tune to play while you ponder the question "Who knows where the time goes?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZL2FXkGqI

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Matrika Matters
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Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #2 - on: 02.07.2018 at 05:53 [UT+1] »Thanks Afternoon Sun.
There are all sorts of links in the articles around this topic, I find it fascinating.

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PhoenixNoodleSoup

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Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #3 - on: 02.07.2018 at 06:14 [UT+1] »Time is an astrological concept
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ0E96QlUCA

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Running For

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?

Snow« Reply #4 - on: 02.07.2018 at 09:08 [UT+1] »MemberA big relevance would be that it begins to explain horary. If past, present and future all exists at the same
moment then it allows you to predict what is going on in the future because it is actually somewhere else.
Geoffrey Cornelius talks about how all charts show the answer to a problem even fifty years later in his bookon horary and divination.

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You have to be slightly careful with articles like this because physicists do a lot of their work theoretically, withmaths. Their theories then get dumbed down into scenarios that the general public can understand. Thattranslation from theory to understandable can get twisted and used wrongly - especially by us new age types
looking to prove something. They may be connected but don't bank on it.

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IP LoggedWaybreadMember

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #5 - on: 03.07.2018 at 23:43 [UT+1] »Matrika, I really tried to raise this issue on that long thread on causality in astrology in the "other" board. I
took a different tack, though in considering how languages either constrain or enhance our awareness of time.
In English, for example, we read and write from left to right, and then from the top of a page to the bottom.
This "river of time" or "time's arrow" approach to written language forces us to think in one-way, linear time.
Other languages do things a bit differently, notably with their word forms indicating past/present/future; andthere is a debate among linguists and some behavioural scientists as to whether this gives other cultures adifferent relationship to time.
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Gender:A horoscope can be viewed as a type of stylized map, which is a graphic, symbolic language. (Another graphic,
highly symbolic expression is a painting of the last supper.) In a map, unless it's a strip map or a GPS map for
driving purposes, it doesn't matter where you start looking. You might take in multiple symbols at a glance,
focus on one particular kind of symbol, or let your eyes wander randomly when you read, say, a topographic
map.
To a lesser extent, we might think of Chinese characters, that can bundle several concepts in one symbol.
I think this quality of 2- (or possibly 3) dimensional space gives map (and horoscope) reading a quality of
temporal simultaneity that we don't have with linear spoken or written speech.
Whether this leads to thinking accurately in simultaneous or multiple time periods I cannot say, but I
hypothesize that it does.
Running for snow: good points!

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Linda Harris
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Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #6 - on: 04.07.2018 at 01:56 [UT+1] »I experience time. We all experience time. The planets orbits are predictable in time. OUR time is unique toour planet. We don't KNOW what time would seem like if we could live on Jupiter, let us say.
But we live here. Astrology works. It's been working for me for over 40 years. And time has affected me andPosts: 17033

everything around me. I don't have to validate time for it to affect me. Just like I don't have to believe in any
particular theory of evolution or creation for me to be here , alive, now.
There are theorists who have nothing better to do than question reality. But I think it's pretty silly to question"time." But scientists live on these theories. Without theories there would be no "grants." lolJust MHO.
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AnaeliEx Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #7 - on: 04.07.2018 at 03:18 [UT+1] »Time is an illusion, for thousands of years many (wise) people talked about it, nothing new, nothing
spectacular....Genius scientists talked about it too for some very long time, no breaking news.
Some people are in the process of finding out, others found out but don't believe a thing......time is an illusion,
we are all sleeping in an immovable Universe which dreams of itself to be infinite movable Universes...just likeslideshows....
see you next TIME

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gem.in.i
Ex Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #8 - on: 04.07.2018 at 19:34 [UT+1] »Is it the time that determines the persons astrological dna or the origin

mysteries of life

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IP LoggedWaybreadMember

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #9 - on: 04.07.2018 at 22:07 [UT+1] »Time, via the arrangement of the heavens at a given moment, doesn't cause anything; any more than thealarm clock going off causes it to be morning. A particular clock time corresponds to a birth and a particularconfiguration of planets. They happen together, but in and of themselves are not causal mechanisms. (WhatAristotle called the prime mover.)
Lainie, please don't be so hard on people who think differently than you do. Children are naturally curious andwant to know why something happens. It's not enough merely to observe (or be told) that it does. Thank
goodness scientists retain this sense of curiosity. A lot of our everyday- and life-saving inventions owe theirinvention to scientific curiosity.
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Gender:Suppose Bill Gates, his predecessors, and his peers weren't curious enough about electronic communication toinvent the Internet.

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Astro Rose
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Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #10 - on: 04.07.2018 at 23:30 [UT+1] »I read that time is motion itself, hence not an illusion. Time can be experienced without measuring it.

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ganglion

Ex Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #11 - on: 05.07.2018 at 01:10 [UT+1] »Quote from Linda Harris on 04.07.2018 at 01:56 [UT+1]:
I experience time. We all experience time. The planets orbits are predictable in time. OUR time is unique to our planet. We don't KNOW
what time would seem like if we could live on Jupiter, let us say.
But we live here. Astrology works. It's been working for me for over 40 years.
...
Just MHO.
LainieI honestly try to understand your kind of astrological reasoning.
Fact: We experience time (on this planet)
Another fact: Today with better watches (and astronomical knowledge) than the ancients did.
Statement: OUR time is unique to our planet.
Could you explain this to an astronomer? Of course the perception of day and night is different on different
planets, but does this change time measurement of time (using clocks) of not layman today? Is the experienceof time eternal or just a relative perspective?
Statement: We don't KNOW what time would seem like if we could live on Jupiter, let us say.
Would that matter to not human beings?
Would human beings born on another planet realise it?
But we live here. Astrology works. It's been working for me for over 40 years.
So what? What about others with a different perspective and experiences?
John Denver & Cass Elliot - Leaving On A Jet Plane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdknYaSHgE
It makes me smile, but can you predict with it?
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Matrika Matters
Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #12 - on: 05.07.2018 at 04:06 [UT+1] »RFS Quote:
A big relevance would be that it begins to explain horary. If past, present and future all exists at the same moment then it allows you to
predict what is going on in the future because it is actually somewhere else.

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Yes, horary is where I was seeing relevance.
However, I thought because it exists "now", rather than "somewhere else".
Thanks everyone for your posts. I don't usually get hostess-y in threads I post in this section, just put them up
for discussion and respond to those that I have anything relevant to speak to.
I do very much appreciate all your thoughts.
I'm still thinking about it, seems to have a lot of implications.

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afternoon sun

Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #13 - on: 05.07.2018 at 14:45 [UT+1] »It is not just time by itself, but space-time as a linked concept. For instance time changes with the speed
you are moving. The change is only tiny at the speeds we are used to, but real nevertheless. For instance if
you're in a space station circling earth you experience time differently, you age a tad slower. When you
return to earth after many orbits you will be a few seconds younger than you would be had you stayed onearth the whole time. So time is individual to everyone, and only consistent when we are moving together atsimilar speeds.
I think this is a justification for being able to generate a separate sidereal zodiac for the birth moment ofeach person, taking the birth as fiducial for each natal horoscope, because every person potentially is anindividual in time.
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gem.in.i
Ex Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #14 - on: 05.07.2018 at 19:47 [UT+1] »Glad Im not the only one who thought the chart was a map (knowing a chart is a chart) in dream it comes offthat way to me which is why I thought magi astrology made most sense mapping (longitutde/latitude/geometrical pattern + mathematical numbers) I dont know much of it, yet, I also dont see much difference ineither astrology as the soul determines the chart.
One could be in present time living out their past time .. natal (as here and now or cards one is dealt with) but
soul on vedic / draconic ??? very much like the gps analogy or speedometer (miles - kilometer) one sees every
day when driving but not everyone knows how to read it or when to apply it but its there like symbols andlaguages the indivual determines how they interact with it.
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RuudVissioen

Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #15 - on: 13.07.2018 at 16:31 [UT+1] »Quote from Matrika on 02.07.2018 at 05:32 [UT+1]:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029410-900-saving-time-physics-killed-i t-do-we-need-it-back/The entire reality is an illusion, past and future are illusions: tricks of the mind.
There is no here or there, no inside or outside oneself, no above and below, no things past and to come. Thereis only HERE and NOW.
However, the experience of all these illusions is very real. And that is what we study in astrology.

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Matrika Matters
Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #16 - on: 15.07.2018 at 04:51 [UT+1] »[quote author=RuudVissioen link=1530505958/0#15 date=1531495864]Quote from Matrika on 02.07.2018
at 05:32 [UT+1]:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029410-900-saving-time-physics-killed-i t-do-we-need-it-back/Posts: 7405

The entire reality is an illusion, past and future are illusions: tricks of the mind.
There is no here or there, no inside or outside oneself, no above and below, no things past and to come. Thereis only HERE and NOW.
However, the experience of all these illusions is very real. And that is what we study in astrology.[/quote]
Hi Ruud,
The experience is subjective I think is the point...and structured by our neurological structure. Which is not to
say it is illusory, merely subjective which is different from person to person.
I am interested in the structure of astrology reflecting the structure of experience and how that happens, thatis what I am interested in with astrology.
I am not sure that makes the illusory real though, other than to the person having the experience or thetransit or aspect.
One thing being a member of this forum has taught me is that there is not a great deal of consensus on reality.
Since time is considered a fundamental objective reality, information regarding it's subjective nature is prettyinteresting to me.
It doesn't in any way imply the astrological model doesn't work...quite the contrary.

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mellow yellow

Ex Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #17 - on: 18.07.2018 at 21:31 [UT+1] »Not read the foreposters, but I think, that it is, time is not real but relevant.
That's why I love horary.
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Matrika Matters
Member

Re: time may not be real...relevant for astrology?
« Reply #18 - on: 19.07.2018 at 04:49 [UT+1] »RuudVissioen Quote:
The entire reality is an illusion, past and future are illusions: tricks of the mind.
There is no here or there, no inside or outside oneself, no above and below, no things past and to come. There is only HERE and NOW.

However, the experience of all these illusions is very real. And that is what we study in astrology.
Posts: 7405

Hi Ruud,
The experience is subjective I think is the point...and structured and limited by our neurological structure. Whichis not to say it is illusory, merely subjective which is different from person to person.
I am interested in the structure of astrology reflecting the structure of experience and how that happens, that iswhat I am interested in with astrology.
I am not sure that makes the illusory real though, other than to the person having the experience or the transit
or aspect.
One thing being a member of this forum has taught me is that there is not a great deal of consensus on reality.
Since time is considered a fundamental objective reality, information regarding it's subjective nature is prettyinteresting to me.
It doesn't in any way imply the astrological model doesn't work...quite the contrary.

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