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Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology (Read 591 times)

restlesslibra
MemberEyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« on: 28.05.2007 at 23:22 [UT+1] »Hello all you lovelies!
I ended up lurking (and posting) around this forum in the wee morning hours of 3:30-5:00AM today. Why?
Because I am a relatively consistent and somewhat severe insomniac. This condition has been present all mylife, with a strong originary compulsion on my part to come most alive in the late afternoon and lasting until
the early morning hours. I was always tired at school. I have never been able to train myself to really enjoy the
Posts: 183

early morning, not because it isn't serene and beautiful then, but simply because my body insists on a different
schedule.
Obviously when it comes to work, this would be problematic, except I am a creative and grant writer, andtherefore can carve out my own schedule (somewhat). When I lived with my family of origin it was especiallychallenging because they all were, and still are, morning folk!
From vivid, highly realistic dreams and a whole world that has been crafted withim my imaginary landscape, tobeing woken by the smallest disturbance when I am troubled, sleep is quite often a big concern for me.
For anyone who wishes to suggest that I shouldn't be looking to astrology for answers, let me assure you that I
am not. I have sought help and am in the midst of treatment (with little success to date). My naturopath isvery puzzled , noting that I have a very tensile thread that allocates what homeopathic remedies can workwithout making me feel as if I'm wading through syrup the next day. Various things help, but nothing so far
has completely alleviated my insomnia, and often by the time I realize it shall kick in, I have already ruined myrest for the following day.
But I am interested if any of you have encountered sleep problems, and if so,have you suspected a link between
your chart and your sleep/dream patterns (I acknowledge that there have been several excellent dream threads,
I'm not seeking to usurp those)? I suspect my issues might arise from a nervous Uranus close to the ascendantin the first house with Pluto's identity/power issues sitting right close by, both opposing Chiron in the 7th rightby my DC. Additionally I cannot ignore the Sun-Moon opposition with moon in irritable-impulsive Aries
haunting those emotions which are sitting in my 9th house of spiritual/philosophical explorations. My mind
almost feels as if it revs up when I lay down for sleep!
I've attached my chart, but I'm actually more interested in connections you've all made to your charts and yourown sleep patterns, or if you feel there is or isn't a connection between astrological influences and one's
nocturnal issues and preferred time of day to sleep and wake.
Although I am often tired, it is fortunate for me that I have a rather vigorous energy level. I'll look forward to
your comments.

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VirgoMoon

Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #1 - on: 28.05.2007 at 23:40 [UT+1] »Your Uranus Chiron opposition, especially the Uranus end of it, aspects your Sun, Pluto *and* Neptune. This is
only my half thought out opinion fwiw so don't take too seriously, but I am guessing that the Sun being therecipient of this very heavy complex of outer planets is part of the source of your creativity.
I had never looked at insomnia like that before, I have it badly and put it down to Pluto in the twelfth house,
Uranus exactly opposite Mercury, and a bad chart generally, though it is more likely specific to my Neptune
Uranus square aspecting Pluto, Sun, Mercury, with no help from Chiron.
Again I am guessing that Chiron is a potential help against insomnia, maybe when it transits the stressed areasof the chart? Not sure what anyone can consciously do to put Chiron energy where it isn't in the chart. Maybe
the best holistic practitioner I ever went to, and he didn't even charge me, was a Body Harmony practitioner
with a lot of planets in Sagittarius conjunct his Ascendant, with Chiron in Sagittarius exactly on his Ascendant.
I am noticing that you have Jupiter conjunct Chiron close to your Descendant, and wonder if this is a big
source of healing for yourself and others?
I need to think about this one more. Thanks, interesting questions.
edit: your Sun's solstice point is conjunct your Chiron Jupiter conjunction, at 9.5 degrees Pisces. Very
powerful. But to be specific about the source of the stress causing insomnia, I would guess at that Uranus
rising.
edit again: I noticed that your Sun's solstice point, 9.5 degrees Pisces, is also opposite your Pluto.

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virgosunMember

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #2 - on: 29.05.2007 at 02:08 [UT+1] »How about the Nodal axis? Nth Node in 12th, dreams and unconsciousness, is where you seek to be. But Saturnin 6th opposed has you locked in the concerns of the everyday life. You find it easier to be preoccupied with themundane than to truly let go and drift beyond consciousness. Just my 5c worth.

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rosebugs

Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #3 - on: 29.05.2007 at 05:05 [UT+1] »Well I don't have problems "falling asleep" but I have always been a night person. Like you, I could never get
going in the morning and feel like I wake up around 2-4pm and get tired around 4-6am. I work a 7pm-7am
shift which has worked well for my natural rhythms. Unfortunately, I have to start working mornings d/t family
obligations-- I hope I can stay awake.
Posts: 63
Gender:I am Aqua rising and just figured that is what my rhythms a little erratic. Uranus is in 7th conjuct Pluto andsquares Sun/Mercury.

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GiannaMember

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #4 - on: 29.05.2007 at 05:45 [UT+1] »i have severe sleep problems, ive tried prescription sleep aides ,, i dont like the way i feel, ive tried natural sleep
aides they dont work.. but i do not know if i have a connection to my chart about insomnia if anyone wants tolook be my guest

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arigemMember

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #5 - on: 29.05.2007 at 06:03 [UT+1] »Hi night owls,
My extremely amateur and anecdotal observation is that almost all insomniacs have a heavy Aquarius influenceor Uranus conjunct the ascendant, sun or moon.
I am fairly regular sleeper and need lots of it, but in college I roomed with a triple Aquarian. Holy baloney! That
woman NEVER slept.
Posts: 123

I guess that's not very helpful but... my question is, do you NEED sleep and aren't getting it (maybe a problem

Gender:that needs more/deeper attention) or do you just not need much? As for the roomie, she just didn't need it.
Society thought she did but... she seemed to function quite well on her jittery-aqua-ura-speed....
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Liisa
Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #6 - on: 29.05.2007 at 08:02 [UT+1] »My boyfriend has had problems falling asleep for years, and he has developed two ways to do it, it's either withsleeping pills that make him dizzy the next morning, and/or watching tv until falling asleep. Now this has beenstressful for me as I've used to being in a total, relaxing silence and darkness, and he simply can't fall asleep
like that. So we've compromised. If he doesn't have to get up early in the morning he can watch his movie on
livingroom couch and perhaps sleep there (he likes that and the couch is very comfortable) OR if he wants towatch something in our bedroom the voice has to be very low and he makes sure the timer is on to stop the
Posts: 490
Gender:movie in 45 or 60 minutes which is the time he needs to pass out, lol!
He has a very strong mercury on his chart, Gemini rising with Mars in the 1st house, Mercury itself in Libra in
5th and Moon in Aqua in 9th, lot's of air, I think that is it!
Oh and funny that you chose Eyes Wide Shut....His favorite director is definitely Stanley Kubrick, mine too!

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restlesslibra

Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #7 - on: 29.05.2007 at 08:48 [UT+1] »Thank you all for your experiences and observations.
Liisa: I'm a huge Kubrick fan! I've recently been reworking a paper I did regarding the Anal Father as evidencedin The Shining--very interesting (translate to strange) topic about how the Lacanian father, and law of thefather, was perverted in the character of Jack. Could speak for hours about Dr. Strangelove, one of my all-time

Posts: 183favorite films. That TV zoning-out trap is one I've fallen into myself. Then the problem is waking yourself fromthat drone, and I'm not sure it is really all that good for an insomniac--but we do get desperate to clear our
frenetic minds!
Arigem: I have come to the juncture in my life--gotta love the 40s--when I do need the sleep. I notice now that
there is a somewhat cyclical pulse to this insomnia ... I need to figure out what transits agitate it, as I reallysense it is at least activated to some degree by certain astrological conditions (or maybe biorhythms but I don't
anything about those). On a very general note I feel a general waning energy and agitation during a new moon,but I think it is more complicated than that.
I've got a couple of strategies lined up, one which involves Valerian root (which hasn't worked in the past, andhas a really awful taste) and visualizations, and another that simply means forcing myself back to the routineof yoga that I abandoned about a year ago.
Virgosun and Virgomoon: I should have known that it would take that lovely, precise Virgoan analytic ability toreally pinpoint something solid. Both of you have identified some graceful connections to what I feel my real
sleep problems are. I am a classic worrier ... it's rather ridiculous an I chastise myself. But when I can transcend
my own worries (usually embarrassingly petty), I graduate to those of the world. Images of inequalities andloneliness and sadness seem to swirl around my head. I wish there were some way I could will to power thosedisenfranchised folk that are homeless or hungry ... I think you get the picture. To address that North Nodeissue, I shall take a recommendation from Arigem and read Jan Spiller's Astrology for the Soul!
Virgomoon: I wish for you some relief from your own insomnia, has this thread led you to ponder and perhaps
craft a strategy? The two edit placements that you note seem to be very relevant to me, and thank you forindicating these as powerful forces. For wont of a better descriptor I have to say that the power of myemotions, of my ideas, of my hopes for humankind really seems activated at night as all the other Libran
niceties of my environment fall away and I'm left with the bare bones of existentialism.
Looking forward to hearing more ...

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DebbieEx Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #8 - on: 29.05.2007 at 09:18 [UT+1] »I think I'd have to go along with the mercurian and uranian connections.
My daughter is a dreadful sleeper, and gets by on less sleep than myself at 8 years of age. She has Gemini
rising with Moon conjunct the ascendent. The Moon trines both Uranus and Neptune in Aquarius. Neptune also
conjunct the MC.
Her problem is that she simply cannot switch off and her mind is in constant overdrive.
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Amalthea

Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #9 - on: 29.05.2007 at 10:18 [UT+1] »I have insomnia pretty bad at the moment falling asleep around 3am. But this is caused by clinical depression,
as I am going through some rough pluto transits at the moment.
t. Pluto conj. Moon/Nept 8th Cap/Sag cusp. Also I noticed t.Sun opp. Ura and t.Sat opp. Mars. I'll get better
though, I am usually a great sleeper! (Taur asc!!!)Back to top

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Liisa
Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #10 - on: 29.05.2007 at 10:37 [UT+1] »Quote:
Her problem is that she simply cannot switch off and her mind is in constant overdrive.

You just described how my bf's mind works.

Posts: 490
Gender:I know I have problems falling asleep when something is bothering me. I've also been through a depression in
2002, and one of the worst part of it was that I was often awake until 3 or 4 pm, slept a few restless hours andwoke up feeling miserable.
I am so grateful that I am now feeling well, even the heavy saturn transit seems to be easier now.

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DebbieEx Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #11 - on: 29.05.2007 at 11:04 [UT+1] »Quote from Liisa on 29.05.2007 at 10:37 [UT+1]:
Quote:
Her problem is that she simply cannot switch off and her mind is in constant overdrive.

You just described how my bf's mind works.
I know I have problems falling asleep when something is bothering me. I've also been through a depression in 2002, and one of the worst
part of it was that I was often awake until 3 or 4 pm, slept a few restless hours and woke up feeling miserable.
I am so grateful that I am now feeling well, even the heavy saturn transit seems to be easier now.

Yes and she deals with it in the same way as your bf, although no tv, just reading until she falls asleep. I
wonder if its that Gemini rising that causes some of the problem.
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dr_dudeMember

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #12 - on: 29.05.2007 at 11:52 [UT+1] »Quick diagnosis of insomnia symbol in your chart:
uranus in virgo on the ascendant quincunx saturn in aquarius in the 6th.
lots of mental energy which struggles to find an outlet. 6th house saturn puts the dampers on daily renewal ofphysical energy required and gained by sleep. in aquarius again related to too much mental energy and saturnis strong in aquarius. worry. the quincunx makes it an irritant rather than an existential crisis (which would be
the square!)...

Posts: 463
Gender:the two planets share mutuality through sign and house.... uranus to aquarius (where saturn is) by rulership ...
saturn to virgo (where uranus is) through 6th house placement. connect them with the quincunx and voila!...
insomnia, worry, excess mental energy! (throw in a 3rd house sun in an air sign... more of the same....)
best Dru

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MollyV

Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #13 - on: 29.05.2007 at 13:43 [UT+1] »As a lifelong nocturnal human who spent years and years (and some more...) struggling to conform to therather arbitrary idea that it's good to sleep at night and bad to sleep during the day -- I've finally just thrown
all that imposed definition out. It's my natural sleep/wake cycle, period. Unless I want to drug myself every
single day, I always quite naturally fall back into a dusk Awakening and a dawn Sleepy Time. I constantly haveto accomodate for clients, always for gatherings that the vast majority of people insist must take place during
the early afternoons on into evening -- about the time I'm likely to show up, they're off to snoozeville. I know
one other person, closely, who shares this propensity -- and our charts are harmonious but entirely different;
there is no common signature to be found excepting one thing I've casually researched over decades: People
Posts: 259
Gender:born late in the day and on into night seem to be pront to being nocturnal, whilst daytime babies ted towardvarying degrees of "day" people. NOT definitive, in-progress casual research -- still amassing instances where
this turns out to be true -- which is often, but not always.
I love the night. It's a different world when you live in it willingly and consciously. Why it should irritate
society to such an extent, in the world as it is now, is simply Tradtion holding on. methinks.
The dawn-to-dusk Rule of "normal" rhythm is the rule of an agrarian society, really not necessary toconform to at all, unless you're a farmer, I believe.
However -- if one chooses to accept inherent nocturnalism and live outside the acceptable social "norms"of "8 to 5", there will be head-scratching and a pervasive opinion among others that you've got a "problem."Well, I do. These arbitrary rules are my problem. When circumstances are not flexible, and I have to function
as Day person, I have to make a deliberate effort every single day to "falsely" regulate my sleep-wake cycles.

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Lindac7
Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #14 - on: 29.05.2007 at 18:39 [UT+1] »When I was growing up, I had frequent problems with insomnia. Years later, it finally dawned on me that since
we drank loads of iced tea all day every day as if it were water (in ~extremely hot~ Phoenix, Arizona), it was allthat caffeine causing the problem. Oddly, though, I never felt any nervous jitters, and my Moon is in Gemini.
Now, though, I don't think it was the caffeine necessarily, and I know it's not a caffeine thing now, because I
don't drink caffeine anymore. I've always had an overactive mind (Libra stellium with Moon in Gemini, with
Uranus sextile my stellium and with Neptune conjunct my Scorpio Ascendant), so I figured that must be it. I
also have Uranus and Chiron opposed on my Aquarius/Leo 4th/10th axis.
On top of that, I am a night owl, and trying to fight it is a losing battle, but I've always had an 8 to 5 job. I've
Posts: 2029
Gender:had to learn basically every relaxation technique in the book in order to help myself fall asleep by a reasonable
hour so I can function the next day. I use a hand-held massager on my tight muscles (neck and shoulders
mostly), perform reflexology on my feet, and use deep breathing and focusing techniques to relax. I also write
down everything I need to remember so I can stop it from swirling endlessly in my brain. I keep paper andpens on my nightstand all the time so I can empty my brain to relax. I also read boring books if necessary tohelp it along. Even with all that, I still never get enough sleep during the week. I just can't fall asleep earlyenough in the evening. The only time I actually get a good night's sleep is on the weekend when I can finallysleep in. It's a never ending cycle.
As far as birth time having a correlation to being an early bird or night owl, I've found the opposite to be true.
Years ago I discovered a sneaky way to find out what time people were born by asking if they are an early bird
or a night owl, then asking what time they were born. I would then explain that there is a correlation to them,and that way I could get their time born without them knowing why I was asking! I had read somewhere thatmorning people are usually born in the latter part of the day, and night owls are born in the early part of theday. I was born at 7:50 a.m., and am definitely a night owl. What's even more interesting is that ALL thepeople I've had this conversation with have fit the pattern. Only recently have I run across a couple people whohave not fit the pattern, but somewhere around 90% of all those I've spoken to fit it perfectly.
Now that I've finally found a couple exceptions to the pattern, I'm beginning to wonder if the beginning oflabor is actually the determining factor more so than time born, since most mothers are in labor for quite a few
hours, and the time the baby decides to start making their exit might be a more accurate time to use fortesting this theory.
Linda >'='<

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MollyV

Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #15 - on: 29.05.2007 at 21:25 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 29.05.2007 at 18:39 [UT+1]:... I'm beginning to wonder if the beginning of labor is actually the determining factor more so than time born, since most mothers are inlabor for quite a few hours, and the time the baby decides to start making their exit might be a more accurate time to use for testing thistheory. Linda >'='<

Strange that we should both have "compiled" this information and found opposite results. Will ask too, fromnow on, if there was a long labor before birth time.
Posts: 259
Gender:MV
P.S. Love your sneak secret
P.P.S. Once we get enough posts here we might be able to see an Indicator in the chart...

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restlesslibra
Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #16 - on: 29.05.2007 at 21:39 [UT+1] »Quote from dr_dude on 29.05.2007 at 11:52 [UT+1]:
Quick diagnosis of insomnia symbol in your chart:
uranus in virgo on the ascendant quincunx saturn in aquarius in the 6th.
lots of mental energy which struggles to find an outlet. 6th house saturn puts the dampers on daily renewal of physical energy required
and gained by sleep. in aquarius again related to too much mental energy and saturn is strong in aquarius. worry. the quincunx makes it
an irritant rather than an existential crisis (which would be the square!)...

Posts: 183

the two planets share mutuality through sign and house.... uranus to aquarius (where saturn is) by rulership ... saturn to virgo (where
uranus is) through 6th house placement. connect them with the quincunx and voila!... insomnia, worry, excess mental energy! (throw in a
3rd house sun in an air sign... more of the same....)
best Dru

Dru,
This is brilliant, and you've finally taught me what a quincunx is!!! I'd been calling those aspects a yod--I'm
such a novice. Oh, and 3rd house sun and Mercury in that incessantly balancing/weighing Libra ... it's tough toturn my thoughts off!
But you see, I suspected it had much to do with Virgo and Uranus, and this expansion/contraction,
flow/hinderance energy. I can actually feel it activate as I lay down to sleep and layers of duty and routine fallaway to allow a sort of free-form activity of my brain waves. Unfortunately I'm extremely sensitive to drugs andthe smallest doses really mess with me. I get this cow-eyed, dopiness that completely musses up my creativity
and "sharpness," therefore I'm trying to either somehow assimilate this staccato mental energy, find a way toschedule around it, or treat it with more "natural" options such as exercise, herbs.
Thank you, Dru, for your insights. Your chart reading skills really blow me away--I can feel how your mind
wrapped around those energies, and I suspect you could almost visualize the aspects. I imagine that gifted
chart readers almost see patterns visually emerge from a chart. I'm trying to develop this gift.
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Lola Lowe

Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #17 - on: 31.05.2007 at 10:27 [UT+1] »This is a suggestion....what you consume dont eat after 7 or heavy meals late in the day
limit or cut caffine....maybe an allergy?
Meditation. Do it regularly and you will sleep like a baby. and if you are diligent you will need less sleep!

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dr_dudeMember

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #18 - on: 31.05.2007 at 12:35 [UT+1] »Restlesslibra --it would be a yod if there was a planet forming a sextile with uranus and a quincunx with saturn... a yod
configuration is two planets in sextile both quincunxing a third planet. also called "the finger of god" --- theplanet at the point of the two quincunxes is the focal point.
basically, two planets one sign either side of the opposition point to that planet...
best
Posts: 463
Gender:Dru

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cloudyvirgo

Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #19 - on: 02.06.2007 at 15:29 [UT+1] »Maybe you should rename yourself reallyrestlesslibra.
I have had trouble sleeping since I was about 8.

I have Uranus conj Pluto/Sun/Mercury in Virgo. My mind justraces when I try to sleep. I have a older brother who also suffers from insomnia. I watched alot of late nightTV with him growing up. He is also Virgo/Leo and has a prominent Uranus in his 12th house Leo conj
Ascendant.
I think birth time may have some bearing on sleep patterns. I worked a 3am-12noon shift several years ago. I
took an informal survey. Almost everyone was born in the late night/early morning hours.
At the risk of being bashed for referring to anything New Age, I will suggest listening to this while you try to
sleep. It sometimes helps me. I have to have total darkness and silence to sleep. This CD is the exception.
edit-- I can't post the link. It is Dean Evenson's Healing Waters. If you go to bn.com, you can actually listen
to it. It may sound like just another new age CD but I assure you it is not. PM if you want me to ellaborate.
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restlesslibra
Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #20 - on: 02.06.2007 at 20:40 [UT+1] »Dru, I wonder if teaching is your profession? The way you explained a yod is now crystal-clear to me, thankyou. And the reciprocal exchange of paradoxical, self-flagellating yet inherently self-directed energy of Saturn in
Aquarius feeding the critical, analytical and again inherently self-initiated energy of Uranus in Virgo, clearly
articulates my dilemmas with sleep (and sometimes conscious thought as well). I should have seen that. Why is
it so much trickier to analyze one's own chart?

Posts: 183

Lola, the suggestion about meals is a good one, as I DO tend to eat my dinner after 7:00PM, and thenaturopath mentioned it as well. I have always realized I should eat earlier, but now I've got some good
motivation. I only drink a small amount (generally not even a full cup) of coffee in the morning--and never any
soda pop, and here in the PNW the weather isn't particularly conducive to consumption of cooling beverages
such as iced tea (used to love it when I lived in LA), so I've got caffeine under control.
Cloudy, I'm thinking ridiculouslyrestlesslibra, riotouslyrecklesslibra, or perhaps redundantlyunrestedlibra ... I
get maybe three decent nights' rest a week. Re-awakening is a further complication. I shall try the CD-thankyou kindly for the specific suggestion. I've considered that option previously, but I'd have to turn it on after myhusband was already asleep (he tucks in early) ... at this point I say he's going to have to tough it out. The
irony is that he sleeps like a horse on tranquilizers--right through the Northridge earthquake and my distressed
shouts! It's good to have a specific recommendation, as I never knew quite which one to select, and I'm one ofthose Librans who sweats the minute decisions far more than the important ones!
Thanks everyone for some good suggestions--anything to avoid the Ambien prescription the regular medical
doctor gave me ... sleep aids really wreck me.

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rosebugs

Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #21 - on: 02.06.2007 at 21:13 [UT+1] »Restless Libra, have you tried Melatonin? You can get it at any natural food store.
I work night shift and I take Melatonin to help me switch back to sleeping at night time on my nights off. I
have tried some prescription drugs to help me sleep but find, like you, they don't agree with me, but Melatonin
Posts: 63
Gender:is what our bodies naturally produce at night to help us sleep and it has worked really well for me.

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IP Loggeddr_dude
Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #22 - on: 02.06.2007 at 22:15 [UT+1] »restlesslibra:
well that saturn in the 6th is a tricky customer, especially in aquarius! the 6th house is probably the least wellunderstood of any of the 12 houses. even more so than the more obviously elusive 8th and 12th. perhaps
because of the apparently 'pragmatic' nature of it... the 6th has to do with dailyness, repetition, patterns,routine, ritual, preparation, readiness... and as a libra (which means that the cusp of the 7th is particularly
sensitive for you) this is the house which READIES your solar energy for engagment with the 'Other'... so amajor house for you.

Posts: 463
Gender:saturn there suggests real issues with this regime of preparation. a tendency to hurry the things that should
really be taken carefully. there is always an emphasis on caution with saturn, but when saturn is placed in ahouse in which preparation is required, the negative qualities of saturn will tend to bring out the opposite ofwhat is required: in other words, a reluctance to take the requirements of that house seriously. and in aquarius(where saturn is strong) this is more the case. aquarian energy does not like to be held back in any way (andtake it from me, as a sun sign aquarian --- i have plenty of experience with THAT particular manifestation!)....
the rulership of uranus of the 6th merely emphasises this even more. but because uranus is also very strong inyour 1st house and on the ascendant, and ALSO in aspect with saturn... this is a tricky combination. it mightmean slowing down your daily rhythms, or taking your time to make sure that the energy you are expending is
USEFUL expediture of energy rather than worry. there are a whole host of ways this could manifest and i'm sure
you know what the potential for negative and positive is here.
and, yes, i do teach for a living. i teach philosophy, ethics and religious studies. thanks for the positive
feedback.
best wishes
Dru

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Mikey McGovern

Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #23 - on: 02.06.2007 at 22:27 [UT+1] »I've lived with insomnia all my life and there were times where it got so unberable my mind literally felt numband I forget what it felt like to conjure up positive feeling for any form of weather or even time itself.
Senior year for me my insomnia was soo intense I would go days without sleeping and wake up then pass out
just from walking. I've never expirneces such pain. it was unbearable. There was one point in time where it wassoo difficult to breath I had to be rushed to the hospital.
I think a heavy fire influence in the chart (fire grand trines know what I'm talking about) would contribute toexcessive insomnia. Even today I find it difficult to sleep because theres soo much stuff to do (even if I don't
know what it is) I find the night soo exciting for a million reason. Everything that happens at night is full ofbravo and adreniline in my mind. Morning is espically exciting but the afternoon is a complete bore.
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wildflower
Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #24 - on: 02.06.2007 at 22:35 [UT+1] »I've had bouts of insomnia most of my life. My inner timeclock particularly gets thrown off with the increase in
daylight hours and I am naturally a night owl trying to stuff myself into an early riser world.
I have a boomerang, with Moon(Virgo) conj Jupiter at the base in the 3rd,
quincunxes to Saturn and Mercury, Mars at the release point.
Although I don't appear this way to the naked eye, with a placement of 4 planets in the 3rd house of gemini,
my nervous system runs rather high. I have a very active mind and am the poster-child for the mind-bodyconnection.
If I could adhere to a Yoga & QiGong regimen that would help, and it has been when I have been able to.
But the pesky Jupiter opposition to Mars makes regimen rather erratic for me. Mars in Pisces doesn't help. Sit
and contemplate, yah know? Coupled with a current Jupiter transit to my venus right now, I am just going withthe lethargic flow. And the erratic sleep pattern.
If you are at all inclined toward physical exercise that disperses energy like yoga that may help in the evening.
Meditation every night before bed will coax the mind into a state closer to where you want to be before you lie
down for the night. Bellaruth Naperstak has a decent CD you can listen to that is specifically designed to help
sleep: http://www.healthjourneys.com/Product_Detail.aspx?catid=4&id=13.
Tonifying or constricting exercise, like jogging, aerobics, et al, at any other time other than the morning for an
insomniac only feeds the cycle, I have found.
QiGong for even 15 minutes in the morning may help buid energy when you need it.
But who can live with such regimen? Not me! except when transits support/reinforce it.
Lord knows, I realize how difficult this is on the most-minimal of sleep.
Melatonin has provided me with 2 hours of solid sleep, funky dreams,
but then I am wide awake after a couple hours of shut-eye. I am a hard case though.
If you can afford acupuncture, that helps alot. When desperate, I have resorted to a western pharmaceuticaland that did help. I prefer the natural way when I can afford it.
Good luck to you ~Back to top
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Lindac7

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Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #25 - on: 03.06.2007 at 00:27 [UT+1] »I was just reading Robert Pelletier's 'Planets in Aspect' the other day, and he states that Mercury conjunct Mars
is an indication of a mind that races at breakneck speed. I also have Jupiter and the Sun conjunct Mercury andMars, and those can't be very helpful, either. In fact, Pelletier says all those placements indicate that I need toslow down and rest more. All of these planets are also in the 12th house, which I believe also adds to theexcessive brain activity, particularly relating to sleep.
I also have Uranus sextile Mars, Mercury and Jupiter in the 12th, which I believe only adds to the brain whirring
too fast.
A word of caution regarding Melatonin . . . I tried one pill, and had nightmares. I cut the dosage in half, andstill had nightmares. I then cut the dosage to 1/4 of a pill, and that seemed to work OK, but the grogginess I
Posts: 2029
Gender:felt after each dosage was not a symptom I appreciated or enjoyed at all. I decided I don't like Melatonin, andhaven't used it since.
For women who might be nearing (or in) menopause, a low estrogen level can also be the cause of insomnia
and/or waking up in the middle of the night. If you are 'of the age', consider getting your estrogen level
checked. I was only 40 when this started happening for me, and after running a test, my doctor said my
estrogen level was already so low, it was as if I had already gone through menopause.
I started taking estrogen, and literally that very first night after taking it, I slept through the night for the firsttime in months, and got a good night's sleep. In the morning, I actually woke up with energy again, which I
hadn't felt in months. Doing this alone made all the difference, in addition to wiping out all the other related
symptoms I had. They all went away overnight. It was almost like a miracle, but it was all due to estrogen andnothing else.
Linda >'='<

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Scorpionic
Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #26 - on: 03.06.2007 at 02:01 [UT+1] »I have sun and moon in the 11th house (Virgo) and uranus sextile ascendant, and I definitely am a night owl!

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cloudyvirgo

Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #27 - on: 03.06.2007 at 04:17 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 03.06.2007 at 00:27 [UT+1]:
I was just reading Robert Pelletier's 'Planets in Aspect' the other day, and he states that Mercury conjunct Mars is an indication of a mind
that races at breakneck speed. I also have Jupiter and the Sun conjunct Mercury and Mars, and those can't be very helpful, either. In fact,
Pelletier says all those placements indicate that I need to slow down and rest more. All of these planets are also in the 12th house, which
I believe also adds to the excessive brain activity, particularly relating to sleep.
I also have Uranus sextile Mars, Mercury and Jupiter in the 12th, which I believe only adds to the brain whirring too fast.
A word of caution regarding Melatonin . . . I tried one pill, and had nightmares. I cut the dosage in half, and still had nightmares. I thencut the dosage to 1/4 of a pill, and that seemed to work OK, but the grogginess I felt after each dosage was not a symptom I appreciatedor enjoyed at all. I decided I don't like Melatonin, and haven't used it since.
For women who might be nearing (or in) menopause, a low estrogen level can also be the cause of insomnia and/or waking
up in the middle of the night. If you are 'of the age', consider getting your estrogen level checked. I was only 40 when thisstarted happening for me, and after running a test, my doctor said my estrogen level was already so low, it was as if I had
already gone through menopause.
I started taking estrogen, and literally that very first night after taking it, I slept through the night for the first time in months, and got agood night's sleep. In the morning, I actually woke up with energy again, which I hadn't felt in months. Doing this alone made all thedifference, in addition to wiping out all the other related symptoms I had. They all went away overnight. It was almost like a miracle, but
it was all due to estrogen and nothing else.
Linda >'='<EEEKK!!!
Not very likely useless my estrogen has been out of wack since I was 8.
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dr_dudeMember

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #28 - on: 03.06.2007 at 12:01 [UT+1] »regarding Pelletier's interpretation of mercury conjunct mars...
i'd say that the problem with this aspect is not a racing mind but a mind that focusses too intensely on a single
object. whatever mars is it is NOT a dispersed energy... it is entirely focussed on whatever it is aiming at. it has
an aim and a force with which to achieve that aim, so mars conjunct mercury is more likely to obsess or singlemindedly pursue an idea or thought to the point of burn out. these are people who will use words to get what
they want.

Posts: 463
Gender:a racing mind is much more a uranus-mercury issue. whether mercury is in aquarius, or the 11th, in aspect withuranus, or whether the person is strongly uranian (strong placements in aquarius, 11th house or aspects withuranus)... the problem with these factors is that the logical-linguistic mind cannot keep up with the conceptual
abstractions of uranus and the intuitive leaps of non-linear thought which characterise all strongly uranianenergies. so it's as if the intuitive mind is racing ahead of the linguistic mind's ability to keep up, resulting inwhat appear to be leaps of logic, when in reality it's just that the two have not yet found a way to work
together.
best
DruBack to top
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cloudyvirgo

Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #29 - on: 03.06.2007 at 13:33 [UT+1] »Any suggestions on how to get the two to work together?

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Knoxy143
Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #30 - on: 03.06.2007 at 13:44 [UT+1] »Hi RestlessLibra,
From just glancing at your chart, the first thing I notice is that you have the Sun opposite the Moon.
Obviously this is a very common aspect and not everyone with it suffers from insomnia, but on a personallevel, it could show that your ego has difficulty conforming to your nightly lunar schedule. You also have athird house Sun and Uranus on the ascendant so no doubt your mind is often abuzz with mental activity
making it hard to wind down.
The ninth house was once called the house of dreams by astrologers (I have friends with a ninth house Sun who
have the most vivid dreams), so perhaps this shows that your solar ego is working hard to try and make aconnection or focus on your Moon during the time when you are most likely to fall into a dreamlike state?
Oppositions often have a life of their own when it comes to striving for balance so this could show that yourSun is pulling on your Moon when your moon is wanting to rest.
Just a suggestion. Sometimes when my health is failing I look for complicated aspects in my chart when it
almost always turns out to be the simplest answer.
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rhetorikeEx Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #31 - on: 04.06.2007 at 05:26 [UT+1] »hey, restlessgirl!!
I've been following this thread for a little while now, and I wanted to comment, because you've got so many
indicators in your chart of perhaps an excess of sensitivity to information coming in from the outside world;that uranus right on the ascendent, that asc. in the 29th degree (on the 29th degree thread, we've been
discussing something we all seem to share, which is an almost morbid sensitivity to outside influences,
especially with it on the ascendent); Uranus is in virgo, which is going to incline you to a much more mentally
analytic way of approaching the world, and in the 1st, all that mental energy is expressed as a primary way of
dealing with the world, rather than as a something you can easily turn off. This is the chart of a lightbulb that's
always on, if you will, and of course you're exhausted!!
In addition, mercury is in aspect to uranus, and Dru mentioned some of the difficulties with that placement.
The question was raised, how to integrate those extremes of energy... since i have uranus/mercury conjunct, I
thought I would speak to that question a bit. I think the harder aspects have more difficulty expressing all thatenergy; its flow is erratic, and it's too easily interfered with if there are outside influences that distract or upset
your thought process. How do we work with those energies, instead of letting them keep us up all night (andthis has happened for me on so many occasions I can easily be classified an insomniac; mine is situational,
more than anything)--sometimes, with mercury/uranus in hard aspect, it feels like there's a program running in
the background that you can't see, but is nonetheless actively controlling your mind (and don't forget, you've
got the mercury/uranus influence with uranus in virgo to begin with, and on the asc. just augments all thatmental energy).
Your mind feels like it's on fire, it's alive, not with specific, conscious, thoughts that have words attached; butwith energy... it needs an outlet. Sometimes talking out what's going on is sufficient to feel better for awhile.
Sometimes writing, by free associating, rather than writing for a specific goal, might work, because the hands
are engaged, making this a physical task (or artwork or some other creative activity that takes you out of yourmind and puts you into your body, works). There are specific, practical things that will "cure" this problem whenit crops up (if you can do these during the day, rather than only when you are already up late at night, you'll
start to incorporate the soothing rhythm into your unconscious as well)...
okay: any activity that short-circuits the overloaded brain works really well. For me it's cooking, because theantidote to an over-active mercury/uranus is something soothing, physical, and preferably rhythmic or
involving movement of some sort--making bread leaps to mind.
The key is to get your hands into something, and/or do something very physical, because any activity that isbrain-centered, even something as apparently physical as yoga and meditation, will often just push you backinto "mind" detached from "body," which is a dichotomy you're already overly in touch with--unless you canachieve deep trance state during meditation, in which case, this can be mercury/uranus's best outlet for thatmental energy.
Your goal is to undermine that overload--work against it as much as you can. I've found there's no way off thisgerbil treadmill of mental energy unless the body helps disengage the restless, undirected, unfocussed mind.
What happens when you get into this habit often enough, is you'll find yourself calming down enough during
the day to be able to remember what this feels like when you get to bed; then you'll learn to "self-soothe", askill that my daughter also had to learn (and I'd suggest you ask in your family to find out if anyone
remembers if you had a difficult time sleeping even as far back as when you were a baby, because the ability to
self-soothe is a learned skill for many, and if it's not learned in childhood, it really can become a lifetime issue).
and if that and/or warm milk doesn't work, there's always a shot of scotch and a couple of over the counter,non-addictive nighttime sleep aids....
Anything with trytophan in it (milk, cheese, that sort of thing, if you can digest them--not scotch, per se, but
you know what I mean....)

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waterman9
Ex Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #32 - on: 04.06.2007 at 08:42 [UT+1] »A connection between Mars & Mercury, Uranus & Mercury (although i would think that Gemini in general is moreof a insomniatic then Virgo), a 'badly' aspected Neptune
And if someone has a natural sleep by day/ work at night rythm, listen to your body
But how do you adopt to society?
If you work shifts at a factory, you can ask for nightshifts indeed
But i'm planning to become a psychologist. I don't see myself having much luck if I work at night
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MCErosMember

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #33 - on: 04.06.2007 at 12:22 [UT+1] »RestfulLibra or RestprettyLibra: my fire-air disposition makes me quite hyperactive mentally, a night owl typebut not insomniac. When Uranus transit my IC and oppose natal Jupiter square Mercury rising I began toexperience hyper mental energy and bouts of insomnia. And the desire to "set myself free". Good thing t
Saturn was trining my Sun and Saturn simultaneously.
So it would be my bias to single out your Uranus opposition Jupiter as your lifelong "hypermind" placement.
Everyday you get more Jupiter-ish as you approach the Dsc point of sun-setting... Obviously you have creative
outlet for your energy. Not sure if you're into the whole Gauquelin sector thing, but you seem to have selfPosts: 1021
Gender:publishing/writing luck, so no rush. With tr Saturn about to give a little sedating effect on your Asc then conj
Uranus in Virgo, good time to take natural regular care of your liver and thyroid, I reckon.

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restlesslibra
Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #34 - on: 05.06.2007 at 01:26 [UT+1] »Wow, lots to respond to! While I'm not pleased that others share my sleep challenges, it has been extremely
helpful to me to process all these suggestions, and to begin to assimilate my recognition of the origins of myissue with sleep. You see, the thing is, that quite often by the time I notice that the insomnia is setting in, it isalmost too late to employ some of the best strategies--so it seems helpful for me to try to pinpoint transits ormoon phases that seem particularly dire. For instance, new and voc moons seem suspect to me, maybe they
just feel that way because my energy levels feel naturally lower during these times. But I'm also beginning to
notice that certain Mars, Mercury and Uranus transits seem to influence the circulating mind syndrome as well.
Posts: 183

Rosebugs: Yes, melatonin works and works very well for me (1/4 pill just as someone mentions),
unfortunately it has precisely the same side-effects as chemical sleep inducers. I know several people who swear
by melatonin, and in a pinch (when I know I don't need to be anywhere in the AM) I take it, but I'm always
soupy the next day.
Dru: Aquarians can so often be such natural professors. And I have always noticed a genuine effort tocommunicate clearly and precisely on your part, connecting difficult concepts in a masterful way. Here you reallyfloored me: "and as a libra (which means that the cusp of the 7th is particularly sensitive for you) this is thehouse which READIES your solar energy for engagment with the 'Other'... so a major house for you."--after
taking a few courses in psychoanalysis and culture, and Lacanian theory, I realize how many forces in my chart
conspire to make the bump against others stressful for me. I want to please, but yearn to innovate. I dislike
confrontation, but refuse to comply ... So when I, because sleep alludes me, begin to choreograph some of thesimplest potentials for following day, I find myself worrying, stressing over relatively insignificant encounters.
Again here: "saturn there suggests real issues with this regime of preparation. a tendency to hurry the things
that should really be taken carefully."--you nail something that is further impacted by my sun/moon opposition(Aries hates to wait), a thirst for instant gratification that in the past often found me less than prepared (orunwilling to take the necessary steps). Now I'm an over-preparer who won't approach the simplest things
without an arsenal of information and far too much need for encouragement.
Incidentally, your area of expertise has been extremely compelling to me, particularly social theory (in re:
ethics, philosophy). Some of my favorite theorists are Georgio Agamben, Judith Butler, Badieu, Harraway,
Foucault, Santner and MacGowan. Forget sleep when a theoretical concept glues itself to one of my silly
problems ...
Mickey: "I find the night soo exciting for a million reason. Everything that happens at night is full of bravo andadreniline ..."--If I recall we share a passion for theater, a realm in which the night habit is a prerequisite. I
remember doing shows at night, and working as a secretary the next morning--could never get away with thatnow.
Knoxy: I think the sun/moon opposition in my chart is notable in that the moon is in Aries, and as you point
out, in the 9th house. Interesting that this house is associated with dreams, as my dreams are often anything
but rest-inducing! Often I feel the mental activity (and the 9th house association with philosophy might further
explain why I'm sometimes thinking of grand narratives when I'm battling insomnia) bleeds into a sort ofpseud-dream, where I'm walking a thin line between waking and sleeping.
Linda7c, thanks for the suggestion about having my hormone levels checked (I have done so earlier this year),and metabolic changes are quite probably having some influence on aggravating an existing on-again-off-again
problem. Good point.
Wildflower: The two good nights of rest I've recently had have coincided with a resumption of yoga practice.
This and visualizations/meditation are strategies I intend to incorporate long-term.

« Last Edit: 06.06.2007 at 03:12 [UT+1] by restlesslibra »Back to top

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KETaylor

Member

Re: Eyes Wide Shut--Insomnia and Astrology« Reply #35 - on: 06.06.2007 at 00:14 [UT+1] »I have heard in the past that moon in Aries people had trouble sleeping, but I don't know where. The
mountain astrologer? I suffered from insomnia for about two years. It was wretched. I slept maybe 3 nights
out of 7, for two years.
I had to do somethings and make some changes - for what it is worth. You have probably done all of thisalready - but just in case.
* I had my last caffiene (coffee, tea, soda) about 7 hours before I planned to turn in. It stays in your systemthat long, and it does interfere with sleeping patterns.
* Understand what a circadian rhythm is and try to adhere to them. Try to turn in around 10pm, and try to go
to sleep at the same time every night. If you go to bed after midnight really after 1130pm- it will totally mess

Posts: 375
Gender:up your circadian rhythm and will wreck your sleep for the night.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm* Learn to do yoga and to meditate. Sometimes monkey mind will keep you up at night with all of its chatter.
* keep a note pad by your bed, and when you wake up at night write down everything you are worried about
and promise yourself you will get to it when you get up in the AM - and then do that very thing. Sometimes atnight your mind will race and it will keep you up.
* Never exercise within 4 hours of wanting to turn it. Especially after 8pm. It will keep you up. Unless it is agentle hatha yoga - that will help wind you down. Power yoga will not wind you down - it will wind you up.
* I use ear plugs every night and I also use eye pads to block the lights. Can't sleep without my plugs.
* Do not drink alcohol. If you drink even one glass of wine around three am you will get an adrenaline rushand it will keep you up.
I know this has nothing to do with Astrology - it is just what i personally had to do to get over my insomnia.
You have no idea what a relief it was when I finally started sleeping again.

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