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Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo (Read 252 times)

MyriosEx Member

Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« on: 15.09.2008 at 22:49 [UT+1] »I'm jumping off Waybread's Ceres Thread to explore f Virgo within the broader context of her most ancient
Sky-Uterus (Nut) symbolism, her associations with the Thousand Names of Egyptian ISIS, f association
withThe Virgin, and also as Triple Goddess (Three-Seasons) and cyclical connections to Ge or Mother Earthas transfigured in the Astrological skies.
Along the way I hope to develop new linguistic understandings of ancient symbological meanings. (At least formyself)
I understand my Whole Earth f not simply in terms of her green aspect as Springing Virginal Seed (Cerescereal) but also as the Mature Adult Healthy Container of Life (The Urn (balanced in g) who holds or storesthe grain during long barren periods (Winter) with its dark saturnine associations to Death, The Reaper, The
Crone,G or Saturn ~ and The Virgin f or Goddess' Third Aspect or face.

In the glyph ~ g ~ I see the bowl upturned ~ i.e. the f womb or container weighs each seed and decides
which seed shall live or die ~ a natural process where f herself plays "goddess" along with the help of her
lunary lamp, B.
In her judiciary g Libra(rian) capacity as Sifter and Storer of Healthy Seed, the f Goddess has plenty of seed
and chaff to sort. As the Holder of the Scales, the Triple Goddess holds the prime Judiciary role of weighing theseeded harvest to estimate its true value for future planting.
In her third phase or face (phonetical sound-alikes) we see the f Virgin Queen declining in Winter. As the
Crone, Kronus, Head or Crown, Ruler, or astrological G, f The Virgin is now associated with G the Grim
Reaper of LIFE - The Virgin re-versed or turned backwards (like wintry Janus) Life turned Efil in the word "Evil" simply the word "Live" turned backwards. Many symbols share this trait of re*verse*all.
In the context of these associations with Harvest/Reaping, Separating/Discarding and Containing/Storing thegrain, I see a wholistic, healthy, linguistic model for Virgin f Virgo ~ able to sow, reap, winnow and store All
Life for future survival.
This picture gives me a better 3-D image of Virgo, more rounded or fleshed out than the "virigin maid".
As the only feminine constellation in an otherwise masculine star pantheon, Virgo is second in size only toHydra, the Water Serpent slithering below her in the actual (sidereal) sky. The Constellation Virgo rises in thesouth-easter-n March Spring sky, and due to her huge size, dominates the northern sky all Summer.
In the actual sky, Serpens Caput raises his snakey head above Virgo, while the "unlucky 13th" constellation
Ophiuchus (Serpent Bearer) and Scorpius also round out further serpentine imagery associated with The
Virgin, Virgo, and f.
There is also a basket-shaped grouping (for grain storage) ~ some call it crown-shaped, tiny constellation overthe "head" of the snakey Serpens Caput. The symbology does become confused or conflated. I will explore thisfurther later.

MyriosBack to top
IP LoggedColin Dennis

Ex Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #1 - on: 15.09.2008 at 23:12 [UT+1] »

Hi,
Quote
"In the actual sky, Serpens Caput raises his snakey head above Virgo, while the "unlucky 13th" constellation
Ophiuchus (Serpent Bearer) and Scorpius also round out further serpentine imagery associated with The Virgin,
Virgo, and..."sounds a bit like the story of Eve in the Garden of Eden, where she was tempted by the serpent. Its interesting
how the goddess retains some imagery in Christian metaphors the triple goddess a bit like Eve who is like themaiden, whilst The Virgin Mary is like the Mother. Is Lilith the Crone??
Anyway, Isnt the name Mary related to Mare which is latin for Sea and also relates to Mother, Matriarch, Mater,
Matrix. Intersesting how the Sea comes into play as with the opposition sign of Virgo is Pisces, symbolised by
the Sea. The sea is a symbol of madness, spirtituality, Death and Birth all at the same time. The moon, mother,month is all related to cycles, menstrual cycles, tides, seasons, weathers, climates.
If Virgo represents the Earth, maiden and mother, Cancer surely speaks of a similar principle or part of thesame process maybe??
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IP LoggedVivisha
Ex Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #2 - on: 16.09.2008 at 17:16 [UT+1] »Hi Myrios, Great thread! I will rarely be here for the next week but i wanted to indicate my interest all thesame. Some associations"Renowned for her skillful use of witchcraft and magic, Isis was particularly remembered by the Ancient
Egyptians as 'strong of tongue', that is being in command of words of power 'which she knew with correct
pronunciation, and halted not in her speech, and was perfect both in giving the command and in saying
the word' [Sir E. A. Wallis budge, Egyptian Magic]. In short she was believed, by means of her voice alone, tobe capable of bending reality and overriding the laws of physics."
Graham Hancock, Fingerprints of the Gods
Quote:As the only feminine constellation in an otherwise masculine star pantheon, Virgo is second in size only to Hydra, the Water Serpent
slithering below her in the actual (sidereal) sky. The Constellation Virgo rises in the south-easter-n March Spring sky, and due to her hugesize, dominates the northern sky all Summer.

The astrological process of Sirius is sometimes described as ‘The Mundane Becoming Sacred’. Its names ‘The
Shining One’ and ‘The Scorcher’ refer to the rising of the life-giving waters of the Nile, snaking across thefertile flood-plains of Egypt, and overflowing into surroundings parched by the heat of summer.
Quote:In the actual sky, Serpens Caput raises his snakey head above Virgo, while the "unlucky 13th" constellation Ophiuchus (Serpent Bearer)and Scorpius also round out further serpentine imagery associated with The Virgin, Virgo, and.

f

It is said that Isis was a great magician, powerful enough to affect Ra himself, the primordial Sun-God, ruler ofHeaven and Earth. As Ra grew old and weak, he would sometimes drool from his mouth. Isis gathered his spit,
kneaded it with some earth and created a serpent which she placed, poised sharp as a dart, on the path
Ra would daily travel across the sky. When he approached, the serpent reared up and Ra was bitten. Burningwith the poisonous venom, he was further dismayed to discover that, being not of his own creation, he waspowerless over the serpent which inflicted this wound. Isis offered him healing, but on condition that Ra would
reveal his secret name. Although this meant surrendering his power, Ra so feared for his life that hetransmitted knowledge of the Great Name directly into the heart of Isis. Thus he bestowed upon her his own
magical abilities, which enhanced and complemented her own considerable powers.
The star located at the the left foot of the constellation of virgo Khambalia - The Crooked Claw - is associatedwith deep wisdom and secrets, more specifically relating to those who uncover and delve into those secrets. As
Dr Eric Morse comments on http://www.skyscript.co.uk/virgo_myth.html "Khambalia is very much a starof the penetration of secrets. It denotes those good at applying intellect to deep research of any kind, to police
type investigation, espionage and also to such pursuits as alchemy and the esoteric in general." Morse alsosuggests that the crooked-claw title refers to a device similar to that we call the Swastika, "whose ancientsymbolism contained the idea of secret knowledge, accessible to us, but only if one knows the way to get to it,
Quote:

f Virgin Queen declining in Winter. As the Crone, Kronus, Head or Crown,G, f The Virgin is now associated with G the Grim Reaper .

In her third phase or face (phonetical sound-alikes) we see theRuler, or astrologicalThis process of investigating and understanding mentioned above can also be related to the third sephira on
the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, a crone/mother emanation of the divine associated as you say with Saturn.
Binah exemplifies the image of the void not as an empty place but instead a location of great power. It canpull things into itself, knead and twist them, and produce something completely different. Binah is the hidden
source within God. In the Zohar's imagery She is a great river from which all streams flow out; She is themother of everything. and is connected with ideas of making a distinction between things (bein = "between")
and building (banah). Within and beyond Her is unfathomable unity; out of Her emerges everything we canunderstand.http://www.kolel.org/zohar/intro.1.html[i]Binah appears in the configuration of the sefirot at the top of the left axis, and corresponds in the tzelem
Elokim to the left hemisphere of the brain. In its fully articulated form, binah possesses two partzufim: thehigher of these is referred to as Imma Ila'ah ("the higher mother"), whereas the lower is referred to asTevunah("comprehension"). These two partzufim are referred to jointly as Imma ("the mother").
Binah is associated in the soul with the power of conceptual analysis and reasoning, both inductive anddeductive. The partzuf of Imma Ila'ah is associated in particular with the power to grasp and comprehend theinsights of chochmah, whereas Tevunah represents the power to fully assimilate the resultant ideas into one's
consciousness.The "understanding" of binah also implies the ability to examine the degree of truth or falsehood
inherent in a particular idea.http://www.inner.org/sefirot/sefbinah
vivi xBack to top
IP LoggedMyrios

Ex Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #3 - on: 16.09.2008 at 17:49 [UT+1] »Quote from Colin Dennis on 15.09.2008 at 23:12 [UT+1]:
Hi,
Quote
"In the actual sky, Serpens Caput raises his snakey head above Virgo, while the "unlucky 13th" constellation Ophiuchus (Serpent Bearer)and Scorpius also round out further serpentine imagery associated with The Virgin, Virgo, and..."sounds a bit like the story of Eve in the Garden of Eden, where she was tempted by the serpent
Hi COLIN Glad you made the obvious connection. Its interesting how the goddess retains some imagery in Christian metaphors the triple goddess a bit like Eve who is like the maiden,whilst The Virgin Mary is like the Mother. Is Lilith the Crone??
Colin, I have a personal psychological affiliation with Dark Moon Lillith and see her as a sister of the Dark Moon phase which can belikened both to the Winter Half of the Pagan Year and also to the three days when there is no Moon visible to us before it is reborn again- as the NM sliver - in this I see comparisons with Christ's death, burial (3 Days) and resurrection in the New Moon Body. We can neverBescape the Christianized myth - regardless of what we believe, it has shaped our current understanding in every way. But since she isG

relatively knew compared toin the Astro Pantheon, we still have to return to the original mythos of The Crone asthen, but later usurped by the patriarchs and "turned" into a Male Die*ty.

G - a female symbol

Anyway, Isnt the name Mary related to Mare which is latin for Sea and also relates to Mother, Matriarch,

Mater, Matrix. Intersesting how the Sea comes into play as with the opposition sign of Virgo is Pisces, symbolised by the
Sea. The sea is a symbol of madness, spirtituality, Death and Birth all at the same time. The moon,
mother, month is all related to cycles, menstrual cycles, tides, seasons, weathers, climates.

fGreat points Colin, thanks for noting them. As Earth Mother,
Virgo The Virgin (Christ's Mother) can never be successfully separated fromthe salty, fishy,sea, the origin of All Life ushering or Uttering (Uter-us of Egyptian NUT) us into the Christian era millennia with a triplelconjuction of retrograding Saturn & Jew-Piter doing a triple loop in the skies at that time, a deliberately chosen point for the birth/berth of
the New Era ~ and similar to what we are seeing now, with Astronomy/Astrology adding copious new naming devices and concepts toswitch our Thin*King into A New Age Religion and One World State.
If Virgo represents the Earth, maiden and mother, Cancer surely speaks of a similar principle or part of the same process maybe??

Thanks for your excellent "fleshing" out of the bones.
MyriosBack to top

IP LoggedMyrios
Ex Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #4 - on: 16.09.2008 at 18:33 [UT+1] »[quote author=Vivisha link=1221515375/0#2 date=1221581792]Hi Myrios, Great thread! I will rarely be here
for the next week but i wanted to indicate my interest all the same. Some associations"Renowned for her skillful use of witchcraft and magic, Isis was particularly remembered by the Ancient
Egyptians as 'strong of tongue', that is being in command of words of power 'which she knew with correct
pronunciation, and halted not in her speech, and was perfect both in giving the command and in saying
the word' [Sir E. A. Wallis budge, Egyptian Magic]. In short she was believed, by means of her voice alone, tobe capable of bending reality and overriding the laws of physics."
Graham Hancock, Fingerprints of the Gods
Great INFO !! Thanks Vivi !!
The astrological process of Sirius is sometimes described as ‘The Mundane Becoming Sacred’. Its names ‘The
Shining One’ and ‘The Scorcher’ refer to the rising of the life-giving waters of the Nile, snaking across thefertile flood-plains of Egypt, and overflowing into surroundings parched by the heat of summer.
Super info again Vivi !! ~ Osiris=ORION ~ In the shining One, I see Lucifer become Satan with all its
associations of "as above so below" a contrived magyckal formulae or alchemy - the witches brew of
S=P=E+L=ELL=1=S ~ Earthing reality for ones-Self.
It is said that Isis was a great magician, powerful enough to affect Ra himself, the primordial Sun-God, ruler ofHeaven and Earth. As Ra grew old and weak, he would sometimes drool from his mouth. Isis gathered his spit,
kneaded it with some earth and created a serpent which she placed, poised sharp as a dart, on the path
Ra would daily travel across the sky. When he approached, the serpent reared up and Ra was bitten. Burningwith the poisonous venom, he was further dismayed to discover that, being not of his own creation, he waspowerless over the serpent which inflicted this wound. Isis offered him healing, but on condition that Ra would
reveal his secret name. Although this meant surrendering his power, Ra so feared for his life that hetransmitted knowledge of the Great Name directly into the heart of Isis.

This I strongly identify with, Vivi ~ I view the scholarly worship of Pure Rationality as the ONLY
(masculine*eyes*D) godly power available to us and The One True Source of Knowledge versus K*NO*WING asa BIG Mis*Take.
Thus he bestowed upon her his own magical abilities, which enhanced and complemented her own considerable
powers.
The star located at the the left foot of the constellation of virgo Khambalia - The Crooked Claw - is associatedwith deep wisdom and secrets, more specifically relating to those who uncover and delve into those secrets. As
Dr Eric Morse comments on http://www.skyscript.co.uk/virgo_myth.html "Khambalia is very much a starof the penetration of secrets. It denotes those good at applying intellect to deep research of any kind, to police
type investigation, espionage and also to such pursuits as alchemy and the esoteric in general." Morse alsosuggests that the crooked-claw title refers to a device similar to that we call the Swastika, "whose ancientsymbolism contained the idea of secret knowledge, accessible to us, but only if one knows the way to get to it,
Fabulous!! Do you see

M Lilith here in the clawed foot? I do!

This process of investigating and understanding mentioned above can also be related to the third sephira on
the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, a crone/mother emanation of the divine associated as you say with Saturn.
[i]Binah exemplifies the image of the void not as an empty place but instead a location of great power. It canpull things into itself, knead and twist them, and produce something completely different. Binah is the hidden
source within God. In the Zohar's imagery She is a great river from which all streams flow out; She is themother of everything. and is connected with ideas of making a distinction between things (bein = "between")
and building (banah). Within and beyond Her is unfathomable unity; out of Her emerges everything we canunderstand.http://www.kolel.org/zohar/intro.1.html[i]Binah appears in the configuration of the sefirot at the top of the left axis, and corresponds in the tzelem
Elokim to the left hemisphere of the brain. In its fully articulated form, binah possesses two partzufim: thehigher of these is referred to as Imma Ila'ah ("the higher mother"), whereas the lower is referred to asTevunah("comprehension"). These two partzufim are referred to jointly as Imma ("the mother").
Binah is associated in the soul with the power of conceptual analysis and reasoning, both inductive anddeductive. The partzuf of Imma Ila'ah is associated in particular with the power to grasp and comprehend theinsights of chochmah, whereas Tevunah represents the power to fully assimilate the resultant ideas into one's
consciousness.The "understanding" of binah also implies the ability to examine the degree of truth or falsehood
inherent in a particular idea.
Much to digest and assimilate~already deeply re*sounding and Re*Son*ate*in*ge = Ge/Earth/Mother/me.
Thanks! Look forward to your return.
MyriosBack to top
IP LoggedColin Dennis

Ex Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #5 - on: 16.09.2008 at 23:28 [UT+1] »Another thing I'd like to point out, or I should say ask. The Egyptian Primordial deities of Geb (earth father)and Nut (Sky mother) why is it that this becomes switched in the stories of the birth of the titans? Primordial
Deities become Gaia (Mother Earth) and Oranos/Uranus (Father Sky)?
Lets say for a moment that God, or the being of creation is genderless, or even both genders. This metaphor
negates the need to divide the universe into a multitude of beings, for the sake of ones beliefs or wishes. So
this division of the Creator into two Creators, one male, one female, one as Sky and one as Earth, one asMother and one as Father. Interesting how our ancestors found the need to divide things up like this, as if its
needed for creation to be explained as a process rather than just as an innate quality. As its impossible for us
mere mortals to even think of a nothiness before the world was created (well we can, but only in a very very
abstract sense) is it not more sensible to visualise that Creation is and always has been and forever will be
CREATION. Past present and future are not in fact universal but actually are culturally specific. Because we have
reduced time and space into numbers and only think of it numerically, we lose sight and logic becomes useless.
Seeing Pisces as an opposite to Virgo is quite contradictory as well. Pisces as a concept talks of integration, theunification and acceptance that the universe is one big whole and we are all from the same thing. To use the
Sea as a metaphor for birth and death, madness, salvation and damnation you can use the image of the sea asa description for creation. Giving and taking away life... BUT then again Life and Death under this integration
concept must not be opposites so isnt it just good and right to accept that God or Creation or Whatever it isthat we are forever bowing our heads to... isnt it best we god as a genderless, utterly neutral concept ofCreation and its ongoing foreverness rather than worshipping a male god, a female god, a wealth god, Money,riches, war gods, war, peace even. Just worship or Non-worship the collective
I guess the only probably with that is were too feeble, weak and afraid to be able to worship that as then how
we conduct ourselves??
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Colin Dennis
Ex Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #6 - on: 16.09.2008 at 23:43 [UT+1] »Havent certain philosophers like Plato and Aristotle and Saint Thomas Aquinas ect. pointed out that everything
has a purpose to fulfill as a copy or a "form" from the perfect world of forms as seperate from this realm which
is a mere copy of the perfect world.
Humans often then at this point are distinguished from animals only by our ability to REASON. and so the soul,one, major purpose of humans in the grand scheme of the universe as fortold by the perfect "world of Forms"
that to Reason is what were made for, its why were here.
Sorry for getting a little carried away here but I just wanted to tie the ends up of my last comment, I couldnt
leave it unfinished
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IP LoggedMyrios

Ex Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #7 - on: 18.09.2008 at 18:38 [UT+1] »Quote from Colin Dennis on 16.09.2008 at 23:43 [UT+1]:
Havent certain philosophers like Plato and Aristotle and Saint Thomas Aquinas ect. pointed out that everything has a purpose

to fulfill as a copy or a "form" from the perfect world of forms as seperate from this realm which
is a mere copy of the perfect world.
Humans often then at this point are distinguished from animals only by our ability to REASON. and so the soul, one, major purpose ofhumans in the grand scheme of the universe as fortold by the perfect "world of Forms" that to Reason is what were made for, its why
were here.
Sorry for getting a little carried away here but I just wanted to tie the ends up of my last comment, I couldnt leave it unfinished

Colin, no need to apologise for your musings ... Muse Sings!
This thread's main pure*pose is to stimulate
Knew connections within old cunn*un*drums. ((cunni cunning sounds of Nut & Isis or even the goddess
Cunti)).
I'm not here to railroad anyone. I hope everyone clears their own path through the debris of "words" to get toa personal understanding of something we loosely refer to as TRUTH. But even an initial clipping of that simple
word (T-Ruth) re*veals (re*fleshes) the four letters into T (a gallows) hanging Ruth ( another or an-aught-her
or a not-her-Truth).
Looking at your sentence highlited above: I or Eye (((Right eye of Horus versus Left eye of Isis))) see the"copy" Man-kind have made as a one-eyed, up side down, and backwards, re*presentation of "theineffable" or concept of god put into The Word = "god" .... In other words, when the Word was made God
and dwellt amongst them, The Word in*scribe*D in Stone was to be learned as inalterable FACT i.e. so-calledunchangeable fact passed on to posterity in enormous ERECTIONS ~ obelisks and pyramids ~ WORDS twisted
into later Biblical tenet with Adam's "naming" of all things in biblical times (2000 + years ago we are tolled).
But Adam's WORDS were also essentially a RE*naming of the Ra COPY (ie. note well that Re and Ra are thesame wordgod but with one letter already substituted by another "A=E" in both ancient and modern texts)
which had already been re*versed (Ra-Versed) from the ora*gynal verses encoded in the actual skies inancient ~skywriting.
Cutting through the clutter:
Clear enough for me, by simply looking at a globe of the world, is the symbolism still decipherable in our
Astro*nomic (star-named) skies as it was originally encoded by the ancient Egyptians:
Nile = Serpent = Water Snake = Hydra = Skies Largest Constellation = Mighty Egyptian Empire.
The Snaking Nile traversing Africa from its source or Head in Lake Victoria in southern (modern) Tanzania all
the way northward through Uganda, Sudan, and Egypt to its culmination or spilling into the Mediterranean Sea
north of Cairo =Hydra the Water Serpent as the lifegiving Nile itself, seen from below by the first Star-Naming Observers,
carrying the First or Virgin Queen of Heaven or f EARTHED in astronomical Astrological terms, from the
Womb of Heaven as NUT (nut or fruit of The f Harvest).
Essentially, it IS a problem of which came first, the chick*Hen or the Egg.
The question to be considered here in this context, is why the Serpens Caput or Serpent's Head was
decapitated and can we recapture the ore*gynal "NAMING DEVICES" placed into the ancient skies in order tomake better sense out of a modern astrological passed time-pure-suit to understand ourselves in the context ofwhat has been written in the stars?
I no longer have any personal quest or lifelong ambition to discover "why am I here". My answer is evident in
Nature herself ~ my joy is simply to BEE ~ LIFE IN ANIMATION ~ to move amongst all that is "created" by the
un-namable IN-EFF-ABLE and find JOY there without the burden of ritually and religiously assigned "Kingdom
Godhead Rulership".
BTW I DO NOT fall into the trap of sorting humans into a catchall term or trap = "the only rational animals".
We are missing a lot if we take this as an irrefutable TRUTH.
Thankyou for thinking and please keep pondering.
MyriosBack to top

IP LoggedColin Dennis
Ex Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #8 - on: 18.09.2008 at 23:36 [UT+1] »I fully agree, with your statement about reason and humans. That is all for another very base question which is"what is knowledge", epistemology. As you say what is this "truth" anyway.
Again, back to the Goddess image. I know I have diverged slightly but I would like to address one little
problem I have first. Its all about the WHY behind this whole mother/father image of god. And when I say god
I just mean metaphorical characters used to explain creation. Earth mother (gaia) sky father (uranus) the
Mother and Father of the Titans. The First beings. Gaia was said to have been born from Chaos (chaos =disorder, confusion, lack of order) and so she is born out of disorder and thus the first thing to have beenseperated from disorder (meaning Gaia is not disorder, she is order, the sense making of the universe). Gaia
was FIRST Uranus was her child. Gaia basically is Virgo in a sense, Earth goddess, mother Earth. This also
relates to the meanings of Virgo, of analysis, purification, refinement, making sense of the world, being "right".
SO the opposite of Virgo is Pisces the sea, this "Disorder" or "CHAOS" she is OPPOSITE Chaos, Pisces being theacceptance that there is no order and the universe is what it is. So Gaia, earth mother, born from chaos is likethe Real beginning as it were, of ORDER coming from DISORDER.
She then gives birth to a Son/Sun who inevitably is the SKY FATHER Uranus who she takes as her Husband.
Can I suggest that this has something to do with the Astrological ages (albeit that the Egyptians claimed thatthe first Age was the Age of Leo then the age of Cancer came) that in actual Fact the Age of Virgo WAS
signified. Virgo or Gaia CREATES or brings about the next age which is that of Leo ruled by her Son/Sun
opposing Aquarius the Sky Father or Ruled by Uranus sky Father. Gradually over time the Goddess image
diminished. After Leo came Cancer where the Mother goddess became KEY (from around this period of time
figurines of a pregnant faceless goddess were made in her honour)
Polytheism came about after this where a Multitude of gods become the focus, seen by Gemini the sign ofmultiples. Neither Masculine nor Feminine Principle were more powerful than the other. The Taurean age after
this carried Polytheism forward with the Egyptian Empire coming to fruition only Isis/ also Venus was the focus(Goddess of beauty, love etc) ruling taurus Isis was the focus. In the Arien Age a big shift falls into the favourof Masculine Deities (Mars rules Aries) and Monotheistic Religions sprout fourth (Possible Things like Islam,
Judaism etc.) in the Piscean Age, Christianity comes about and Jesus/son/sun of god. The mother Goddess
comes back but she isnt considered a God as such in the form of the Virgin Mary who bares a parralell to The
Mother Goddess of Cancer, also Isis mother of Forus, also Gaia Virgin mother Earth. Throughout each of theages her image has be carried forward although less embraced in certain lights. Why is this so?? who does it
benefit??
Isis/sis/sister I-Sister of Osiris also his wife. Gaia/Geo/Geological Earth. Mary/Mare/Mater/Maritime (Mary-time)
the SEA.
They all represent the Feminine Principle. The Triple Goddess is written all over it Represent the stages of awomans life Maiden, Mother and Crone. In Turn relates to the Basic ebb and flow, phases of the moon. Cycles
of Nature, Menstrual, Tides, Womb, Seasons, Climates, Nature itself at work. The Feminine Part of Nature. We
also have to ask ourselves why is Nature the Feminine Principle and the Masculine Principle covers Society, MAN
MADE things, Adam named the animals, Mankin and Nature seen as seperate. Nature at the mercy of Mankind.
MAN-kind Ruining Earth with Global warming etc.
all stemming from a relationship between Feminine and Nature opposed to Masculine and Mankind. Dont befooled though as to attribute this to specific people as we all contain part of the Masculine and part of the
Feminine in Each of us. These are Forms, mere Ideas, Images, symbols used to perpetuate the same old systemof though thats been used for thousands of years. Its a negative Image of who we are as living beings but also
a positive one. Bad people to bad things because Bad Ideas exist. Instead of using the powerful symbols of the
Universe to create negativity we should use them to create posivitity and the advancement of all. The answer
YET AGAIN is to use ALL symbols, meanings and bodies of knowledge and integrate the many many truths that
we already have to begin to phathom closer to the Real Real Collective thing we deserve. Happiness is not an
end in itself but a mere peice of the bigger prize. There is no END answer but what we really should be doing is
Evolving with Each new answer that we find. A never ending flow od Evolution and Destruction...
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IP LoggedWaybreadMember

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #9 - on: 19.09.2008 at 04:43 [UT+1] »Good thread, Myrios. Since my Ceres thread has recently taken an unfortunate turn
, I hope you don't mind
me chiming in here. Because I think Virgo is worthy of discussion independently of assigning any modern ruler.
Or not.
Colin, I did spend some time a few years ago reading the Bible (NT and OT) for astronomical inferences. I
decided to look at ethno-astronomy generally, vs. what today is called astrology, with its zodiacal emphasis. My
guides for this inquiry were the Bible, some biblical commentaries, Allen's Star Lore book, and a couple ofadditional books on ancient star-lore, together with Peterson's and the Audubon field guides to backyard
astronomy.
Posts: 14740
Gender:I think that "biblical time", as was the case with some other societies' astrological calanders, began with thespring equinox in Gemini, although the Bible itself was written down later. Here is the original couple, Adamand Eve--sometimes portrayed as a heterosexual couple, vs. brothers or twins (although they quickly appear
with Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, &c.) Then we have as part of this "cross" Virgo as Eve (in Hebrew,"Chava"= "Mother of all things living"), Pisces as Adam, the first "Man of Sorrows", and Ophiuchus as the tree oflife with the snake in its branches in lieu of our current zodiacal constellation in that sector, Sagittarius.
As you probably know, a large sector of the heavens, much of it off the ecliptic, was anciently termed "the sea",
because herein lay constellations named for serpents, sea-monsters, and fish. It was seen as ominous, by andlarge. I think the Beast by which the beautiful winged woman is pursued and upon which the Whore of Babylon
rides in the book of revelation is Hydra.
When the equinox moved into Taurus, the Bible moves to condemning the golden calf, and Phoenician deities
sometimes depicted as cows ("the queen of heaven".) The imagery of Joseph, however, also relates toasterisms near Taurus, and cattle were a primary Temple sacrifice. For Scorpio we have Moses and his "brazen
serpent" staff [the snake is one emblem of Scorpio], and the Lion of Judah displacing the eldest-born Reuven,"unstable as water" (Aquarius).
When the spring equinox moves back into Aries, we get another image of Moses and many Jewish elders as
shepherds. Cf. King David. Libra has to do with justice, Capricorn with a stern father-god, and Cancer isrepresented by the asterism Praesepe "the manger" or "the beehive" with a biblical landscape "flowing with milk
and honey", "grain, wine, and oil."
Finally, around the birth of Jesus, the spring equinox moved into Pisces. We get the constellation Virgo yetagain, this time as the Virgin Mary. Jesus (Pisces) walks on water, befriends fishermen, multipies loaves andfishes, and is the second Man of Sorrows after Adam. There can be a bit of a reversal here, also, in that Jesus
declares his body to be bread and his blood to be wine, and times some of his life events to Jewish harvest
festivals (such as Shavuot) which also seems Virgoan. I think that Gemini represents pairs of brothers as
disciples in the NT (as well as Jesus' own brother Thomas: cf. the Near Eastern god Tammuz]. Again, I think
Sagittarius appears as Ophiuchus: Jesus the healer, and the renewed Tree of Life mentioned in Revelation.
Revelation appears to be about a battle for the spring equinox in which the Lamb of God (Aries) is meant totriumph, while the evil sea creatures (incl. Pisces) perish.
I think that Isis is a good candidate for Virgo among other ancient goddesses, just as other heavenly bodies[Venus, Sirius] have been ascribed to Isis. A good Roman-period discission on this topic is Plutarch, Isis andOsiris.

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Eddy Bharani
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #10 - on: 19.09.2008 at 10:01 [UT+1] »The Egyptian Nut was in the Milky Way with her mouth between the constellations of Gemini and Taurus (nearAl Nath or Beta Tauri). And her legs at the constellation Cygnus near the star Deneb where the Milky Way is
split into two parts/ the legs of Nut.
Taurus sometimes also was seen as sky uterus. with the horns of the bull then being the ovaria. Most
agricultural cultures projected their fertility god(desse)s in the sky.
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #11 - on: 20.09.2008 at 17:41 [UT+1] »Quote from Colin Dennis on 18.09.2008 at 23:36 [UT+1]:
I fully agree, with your statement about reason and humans. That is all for another very base question which is "what is knowledge",
epistemology. As you say what is this "truth" anyway.
Again, back to the Goddess image. I know I have diverged slightly but I would like to address one little problem I

have first. Its all about the WHY behind this whole mother/father image of god. And when I say
god I just mean metaphorical characters used to explain creation. Earth mother (gaia) sky father (uranus) the
Mother and Father of the Titans. The First beings. Gaia was said to have been born from Chaos (chaos = disorder, confusion, lack of order)and so she is born out of disorder and thus the first thing to have been seperated from disorder (meaning Gaia is not disorder, she is order,
the sense making of the universe). Gaia was FIRST Uranus was her child. Gaia basically is Virgo in a sense, Earth goddess, mother Earth.
This also relates to the meanings of Virgo, of analysis, purification, refinement, making sense of the world, being "right". SO the opposite
of Virgo is Pisces the sea, this "Disorder" or "CHAOS" she is OPPOSITE Chaos, Pisces being the acceptance that there is no order and theuniverse is what it is. So Gaia, earth mother, born from chaos is like the Real beginning as it were, of ORDER coming from DISORDER.
She then gives birth to a Son/Sun who inevitably is the SKY FATHER Uranus who she takes as her Husband. Can I suggest that this has
something to do with the Astrological ages (albeit that the Egyptians claimed that the first Age was the Age of Leo then the age of Cancercame) that in actual Fact the Age of Virgo WAS signified. Virgo or Gaia CREATES or brings about the next age which is that of Leo ruledby her Son/Sun opposing Aquarius the Sky Father or Ruled by Uranus sky Father. Gradually over time the Goddess image diminished.
After Leo came Cancer where the Mother goddess became KEY (from around this period of time figurines of a pregnant faceless goddess
were made in her honour)
Polytheism came about after this where a Multitude of gods become the focus, seen by Gemini the sign of multiples. Neither Masculine nor
Feminine Principle were more powerful than the other. The Taurean age after this carried Polytheism forward with the Egyptian Empire
coming to fruition only Isis/ also Venus was the focus (Goddess of beauty, love etc) ruling taurus Isis was the focus. In the Arien Age a
big shift falls into the favour of Masculine Deities (Mars rules Aries) and Monotheistic Religions sprout fourth (Possible Things like Islam,
Judaism etc.) in the Piscean Age, Christianity comes about and Jesus/son/sun of god. The mother Goddess comes back but she isnt
considered a God as such in the form of the Virgin Mary who bares a parralell to The Mother Goddess of Cancer, also Isis mother of Forus,
also Gaia Virgin mother Earth. Throughout each of the ages her image has be carried forward although less embraced in certain lights.
Why is this so?? who does it benefit??
Isis/sis/sister I-Sister of Osiris also his wife. Gaia/Geo/Geological Earth. Mary/Mare/Mater/Maritime (Mary-time) the SEA.
They all represent the Feminine Principle. The Triple Goddess is written all over it Represent the stages of a womans life Maiden, Motherand Crone. In Turn relates to the Basic ebb and flow, phases of the moon. Cycles of Nature, Menstrual, Tides, Womb, Seasons, Climates,
Nature itself at work. The Feminine Part of Nature. We also have to ask ourselves why is Nature the Feminine Principle and the Masculine
Principle covers Society, MAN MADE things, Adam named the animals, Mankin and Nature seen as seperate. Nature at the mercy of
Mankind. MAN-kind Ruining Earth with Global warming etc.
all stemming from a relationship between Feminine and Nature opposed to Masculine and Mankind. Dont be fooled though as to attribute
this to specific people as we all contain part of the Masculine and part of the Feminine in Each of us. These are Forms, mere Ideas,
Images, symbols used to perpetuate the same old system of though thats been used for thousands of years. Its a negative Image of who
we are as living beings but also a positive one. Bad people to bad things because Bad Ideas exist. Instead of using the powerful symbolsof the Universe to create negativity we should use them to create posivitity and the advancement of all. The answer YET AGAIN is to use
ALL symbols, meanings and bodies of knowledge and integrate the many many truths that we already have to begin to phathom closer tothe Real Real Collective thing we deserve. Happiness is not an end in itself but a mere peice of the bigger prize. There is no END answer
but what we really should be doing is Evolving with Each new answer that we find. A never ending flow od Evolution and Destruction...

Colin, my own answer to your question hilighted above is this:At a certain point in its Civilisation (Alexander founded 18 Alexandria's ), Society determined the necessityof electing "one captain of the ship" or "leader" to advance in HIS Story. This Capit-Ain (Head-First) wasmodelled on the trained War-Hero-God-Kings of Greece and Rome who proved their value as the Stag does, ina battle for natural supremacy and the right to mate. This is the principle now turned on its head in themodern rationale model.
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MyriosEx Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #12 - on: 20.09.2008 at 18:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Eddy Bharani on 19.09.2008 at 10:01 [UT+1]:
The Egyptian Nut was in the Milky Way with her mouth between the constellations of Gemini and Taurus (near Al Nath or Beta Tauri). And
her legs at the constellation Cygnus near the star Deneb where the Milky Way is split into two parts/ the legs of Nut.
Taurus sometimes also was seen as sky uterus. with the horns of the bull then being the ovaria. Most agricultural cultures projected theirfertility god(desse)s in the sky.

Thanks for these interesting associations Eddy.
The long neck of cygnus (swan) between the legs of Nut ~ reminds of Leda and the Swan.
Taurus and Hat*Hor (b) with all her Egyptian (upper and Lower) Hats seem to be an inextricable PAIR eventoday ~ bear in mind that A (Aleph) upside down = OX = b = BULL
Since we projected our own imbalanced concepts of "god" on the sky, and have landed in the mess we are in,perhaps it really is time to reinvent our godlie pan*theo*n.
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #13 - on: 20.09.2008 at 18:51 [UT+1] »Quote from Waybread on 19.09.2008 at 04:43 [UT+1]:
Good thread, Myrios. Since my Ceres thread has recently taken an unfortunate turn

, I hope you don't mind me chiming in here.

Because I think Virgo is worthy of discussion independently of assigning any modern ruler. Or not.
Colin, I did spend some time a few years ago reading the Bible (NT and OT) for astronomical inferences. I decided to look at ethnoastronomy generally, vs. what today is called astrology, with its zodiacal emphasis. My guides for this inquiry were the Bible, some biblicalcommentaries, Allen's Star Lore book, and a couple of additional books on ancient star-lore, together with Peterson's and the Audubon
field guides to backyard astronomy.
I think that "biblical time", as was the case with some other societies' astrological calanders, began with the spring equinox in Gemini,
although the Bible itself was written down later. Here is the original couple, Adam and Eve--sometimes portrayed as a heterosexual
couple, vs. brothers or twins (although they quickly appear with Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, &c.) Then we have as part of this "cross"
Virgo as Eve (in Hebrew, "Chava"= "Mother of all things living"), Pisces as Adam, the first "Man of Sorrows", and Ophiuchus as the tree oflife with the snake in its branches in lieu of our current zodiacal constellation in that sector, Sagittarius.
As you probably know, a large sector of the heavens, much of it off the ecliptic, was anciently termed "the sea", because herein lay
constellations named for serpents, sea-monsters, and fish. It was seen as ominous, by and large. I think the Beast by which the beautiful
winged woman is pursued and upon which the Whore of Babylon rides in the book of revelation is Hydra.
When the equinox moved into Taurus, the Bible moves to condemning the golden calf, and Phoenician deities sometimes depicted as cows("the queen of heaven".) The imagery of Joseph, however, also relates to asterisms near Taurus, and cattle were a primary Temple
sacrifice. For Scorpio we have Moses and his "brazen serpent" staff [the snake is one emblem of Scorpio], and the Lion of Judahdisplacing the eldest-born Reuven, "unstable as water" (Aquarius).
When the spring equinox moves back into Aries, we get another image of Moses and many Jewish elders as shepherds. Cf. King David.
Libra has to do with justice, Capricorn with a stern father-god, and Cancer is represented by the asterism Praesepe "the manger" or "thebeehive" with a biblical landscape "flowing with milk and honey", "grain, wine, and oil."
Finally, around the birth of Jesus, the spring equinox moved into Pisces. We get the constellation Virgo yet again, this time as the Virgin
Mary. Jesus (Pisces) walks on water, befriends fishermen, multipies loaves and fishes, and is the second Man of Sorrows after Adam.
There can be a bit of a reversal here, also, in that Jesus declares his body to be bread and his blood to be wine, and times some of his life
events to Jewish harvest festivals (such as Shavuot) which also seems Virgoan. I think that Gemini represents pairs of brothers as
disciples in the NT (as well as Jesus' own brother Thomas: cf. the Near Eastern god Tammuz]. Again, I think Sagittarius appears as
Ophiuchus: Jesus the healer, and the renewed Tree of Life mentioned in Revelation. Revelation appears to be about a battle for the springequinox in which the Lamb of God (Aries) is meant to triumph, while the evil sea creatures (incl. Pisces) perish.

I think that Isis is a good candidate for Virgo among other ancient goddesses, just as otherheavenly bodies [Venus, Sirius] have been ascribed to Isis. A good Roman-period discission on this topic is
Plutarch, Isis and Osiris.

Its my contention here to discuss Nut vis a vis its essential "nutlike" quality as the first or virginal or original"kernel" of an ASTRO SKY MAP which I conceive as an UTERUS from which UTTERED forth all the linguistic
models for "Woman" that we use today ie. Venus, Ceres, Isis et al. Within Nut we have a womb-like conceptionof Sky as Mother. This in itself indicates FIRST SEPARATION/differentiation. In a way, it is where we went offtrack. In filling the sky above with war-god-heroes while bereaving it of "virginals" we have created theimbalance we now enjoy below. "As above so below".....
In this Egyptian model we see that Isis or I Sis, Sis*ster or Sister Star, fully half of the form*all*eyes*D Twin
Pantheon Equation, is the one who de facto is later discarded altogether, au contra Osiris. ((did I say that right,
I'm playing a bit)
It's my contention that within ISIS and all that she formerly re*presented, we have a true key to unveilingthe mystery which remains in the sky as still-ostracized though perfected and perfecting f ~ our only
feminine gateway (vulva) or access to a heaven*lie understanding of/for modern "Woman".
Sidebar: BTW. N.B. I wish at this point also to note the phonetical sound or utterance ~ Uranus ~ and notethat Uranos is Ouranos is Urine or Pee ~ I fully intend to elaborate on that during this discussion as
appropriate.
Thanks for your interest in this thread Waybread.
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #14 - on: 20.09.2008 at 20:30 [UT+1] »Quote from Waybread on 19.09.2008 at 04:43 [UT+1]:
Good thread, Myrios. Since my Ceres thread has recently taken an unfortunate turn

, I hope you don't mind me chiming in here.

Because I think Virgo is worthy of discussion independently of assigning any modern ruler. Or not.
Colin, I did spend some time a few years ago reading the Bible (NT and OT) for astronomical inferences. I decided to look at ethnoastronomy generally, vs. what today is called astrology, with its zodiacal emphasis. My guides for this inquiry were the Bible, some biblicalcommentaries, Allen's Star Lore book, and a couple of additional books on ancient star-lore, together with Peterson's and the Audubon
field guides to backyard astronomy.
I think that "biblical time", as was the case with some other societies' astrological calanders, began with the spring equinox in Gemini,
although the Bible itself was written down later. Here is the original couple, Adam and Eve--sometimes portrayed as a heterosexual
couple, vs. brothers or twins (although they quickly appear with Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, &c.) Then we have as part of this "cross"
Virgo as Eve (in Hebrew, "Chava"= "Mother of all things living"), Pisces as Adam, the first "Man of Sorrows", and Ophiuchus as the tree oflife with the snake in its branches in lieu of our current zodiacal constellation in that sector, Sagittarius.
As you probably know, a large sector of the heavens, much of it off the ecliptic, was anciently termed "the sea", because herein lay
constellations named for serpents, sea-monsters, and fish. It was seen as ominous, by and large. I think the Beast by which the beautiful
winged woman is pursued and upon which the Whore of Babylon rides in the book of revelation is Hydra.
When the equinox moved into Taurus, the Bible moves to condemning the golden calf, and Phoenician deities sometimes depicted as cows("the queen of heaven".) The imagery of Joseph, however, also relates to asterisms near Taurus, and cattle were a primary Temple
sacrifice. For Scorpio we have Moses and his "brazen serpent" staff [the snake is one emblem of Scorpio], and the Lion of Judahdisplacing the eldest-born Reuven, "unstable as water" (Aquarius).
When the spring equinox moves back into Aries, we get another image of Moses and many Jewish elders as shepherds. Cf. King David.
Libra has to do with justice, Capricorn with a stern father-god, and Cancer is represented by the asterism Praesepe "the manger" or "thebeehive" with a biblical landscape "flowing with milk and honey", "grain, wine, and oil."
Finally, around the birth of Jesus, the spring equinox moved into Pisces. We get the constellation Virgo yet again, this time as the Virgin
Mary. Jesus (Pisces) walks on water, befriends fishermen, multipies loaves and fishes, and is the second Man of Sorrows after Adam.
There can be a bit of a reversal here, also, in that Jesus declares his body to be bread and his blood to be wine, and times some of his life
events to Jewish harvest festivals (such as Shavuot) which also seems Virgoan. I think that Gemini represents pairs of brothers as
disciples in the NT (as well as Jesus' own brother Thomas: cf. the Near Eastern god Tammuz]. Again, I think Sagittarius appears as
Ophiuchus: Jesus the healer, and the renewed Tree of Life mentioned in Revelation. Revelation appears to be about a battle for the springequinox in which the Lamb of God (Aries) is meant to triumph, while the evil sea creatures (incl. Pisces) perish.
I think that Isis is a good candidate for Virgo among other ancient goddesses, just as other heavenly bodies [Venus, Sirius] have been
ascribed to Isis. A good Roman-period discission on this topic is Plutarch, Isis and Osiris.

Thanks for this, I see where your coming from I think. So with the precession of the equinox we have a kind of
chaning of the four Cardinal signs in a way, if you know what I'm saying?? References to Deites and symbolic
metaphors are marked by the symbols used astronomically and these metaphors in turn (you could argue) arechurned out as the sort of new enlightenment, the new set of morals and ways of living. Sorry if this sounds
clumsy, I'm having a hard time getting my head round it (but I want to understand)
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Colin Dennis

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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #15 - on: 20.09.2008 at 20:54 [UT+1] »Thanks Myrios,Thanks for answering this question I had above. So is the whole metaphor of it being a sky being and earth
being (mother or father depending on the culture) to with with fertilisation, way of explaining creation.
And in the Titan story with Uranus and Gaia (Uranus sky, Gaia Earth) with how it explains Gaia as being born
From Chaos (would you agree that Gaia bares a striking similarity to Virgo?) after being born from Chaos (whatis Chaos anyway?) she has a child (Uranus) who she takes as her mate and from their union the create all the
Titans (various gods) and a whole myriad of other creatures. Uranus Buries all the Titans but Gaia hides baby
Cronus who grows up and saves them all!!
Then it falls to Cronus and Rhea to be King and Queen, Cronus castrates his father Uranus. Cronus and Rhea
birth the Olympians (Gods) among other People and things. Cronus EATS the 12 olympians except baby Zeus.
Rhea Protects Zeus and He grows up and then Castrates his Father Cronus and saves the Olympians. Thus the
New God King and Queen Become Zeus and Hera his wife. Romans eventually named them Jupiter and Juno.
What a bizarre pattern, what is its purpose?? Does it in fact bare any relation to what we were saying about
Bible metaphors and the equinoxes. Sorry again for sounding Vague but I'm eager to connect these as it were,
to give us a clear (or near enough) picture of how the metaphors are used.
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #16 - on: 20.09.2008 at 22:57 [UT+1] »Thanks, Myrios. As you know, we have very different ways of looking at word associations. I try to stick toetymology based upon linguistic scholarship or the root words given in dictionaries. I do think that astrology is
above all a tool for self-understanding, so it is not for me to limit other people's sources of inspiration.
Colin, I am not sure whether the lore surrounding the signs on the equinox/solstice angles relates to thecardinal-fixed mutable classifications, which probably doesn't apply if we think of the precession of theequinoxes. There is considerable evidence of all sorts of ancient societies using the sky as their calander. So
the equinox and solstice points were often marked by special religious observances. They also looked at therising and setting of particular stars or asterisms, moon phases, and so on.
Posts: 14740
Gender:More than that, I think many ancient people had an "as above, so below" philosophy that intimately linked
constellations, human conduct, and their belief systems.
Right around the time of Jesus it became abundantly clear that, due to the precession of the equinox, thespring equinox was slipping from Aries back into Pisces. This was horrifying on two counts, I think: first,
because much of the ancient calander and the constellation lore was now demonstrably out of wack; andsecond, because Pisces was seen as a very misfortunate sign back then. At some point, western astrologers
decide that they are simply going to look at pie-sectors of the heavens named after constellations but no longer
coincident with them. Consequently we still define 0 degrees Aries as the spring equinox, even though theactual equinox is moving back into Aquarius now.
I think this is why Virgo mutates from her ancient names of pagan goddesses to the NT focus on the Virgin
Mary. According to one source I read, at the time of Jesus, at midnight on the winter solstice, Virgo rose in theeast just as Capricorn ("the devil") was at the nadir, the asterism Praesepe "the manger") in Cancer was at thezenith, and various domesticated animals (the ox, the sheep, two stars called "the asses"), and constellations
or asterisms representing shepherds and family members gathered round.

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Eddy Bharani

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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #17 - on: 21.09.2008 at 13:23 [UT+1] »Quote from Myrios on 20.09.2008 at 18:00 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eddy Bharani on 19.09.2008 at 10:01 [UT+1]:
The Egyptian Nut was in the Milky Way with her mouth between the constellations of Gemini and Taurus (near Al Nath or
Beta Tauri). And her legs at the constellation Cygnus near the star Deneb where the Milky Way is split into two parts/ thelegs of Nut.
Taurus sometimes also was seen as sky uterus. with the horns of the bull then being the ovaria. Most agricultural cultures
projected their fertility god(desse)s in the sky.

Thanks for these interesting associations Eddy.
The long neck of cygnus (swan) between the legs of Nut ~ reminds of Leda and the Swan.
Taurus and Hat*Hor (b) with all her Egyptian (upper and Lower) Hats seem to be an inextricable PAIR even today ~ bear in mind that A
b = BULL(Aleph) upside down = OX =Since we projected our own imbalanced concepts of "god" on the sky, and have landed in the mess we are in, perhaps it really is time toreinvent our godlie pan*theo*n.
MyriosIt then seems to me that Taurus = A should be the first sign of the zodiac rather than Aries. A Dutch writer(Gerard de Haas I believe) wrote that the myth of the Persian Mithras slaying the Bull (and later the Spanish
Bullfight) symbolizes the killing of an earth goddes sacrifying or fighting her to make the uncontrollable nature
controlable.
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #18 - on: 21.09.2008 at 21:44 [UT+1] »Quote from Waybread on 20.09.2008 at 22:57 [UT+1]:
Thanks, Myrios. As you know, we have very different ways of looking at word associations. I try to stick to etymology based upon
linguistic scholarship or the root words given in dictionaries. I do think that astrology is above all a tool for self-understanding, so it is not
for me to limit other people's sources of inspiration.
Colin, I am not sure whether the lore surrounding the signs on the equinox/solstice angles relates to the cardinal-fixed mutableclassifications, which probably doesn't apply if we think of the precession of the equinoxes. There is considerable evidence of all sorts ofancient societies using the sky as their calander. So the equinox and solstice points were often marked by special religious observances.
They also looked at the rising and setting of particular stars or asterisms, moon phases, and so on.
More than that, I think many ancient people had an "as above, so below" philosophy that intimately linked constellations, human conduct,
and their belief systems.
Right around the time of Jesus it became abundantly clear that, due to the precession of the equinox, the spring equinox was slipping from
Aries back into Pisces. This was horrifying on two counts, I think: first, because much of the ancient calander and the constellation lore
was now demonstrably out of wack; and second, because Pisces was seen as a very misfortunate sign back then. At some point, western
astrologers decide that they are simply going to look at pie-sectors of the heavens named after constellations but no longer coincident withthem. Consequently we still define 0 degrees Aries as the spring equinox, even though the actual equinox is moving back into Aquarius
now.
I think this is why Virgo mutates from her ancient names of pagan goddesses to the NT focus on the Virgin Mary. According to one source I
read, at the time of Jesus, at midnight on the winter solstice, Virgo rose in the east just as Capricorn ("the devil") was at the nadir, theasterism Praesepe "the manger") in Cancer was at the zenith, and various domesticated animals (the ox, the sheep, two stars called "theasses"), and constellations or asterisms representing shepherds and family members gathered round.

Thank you for explaining! I find this quite fascinating, these connections between stars and religous ideology,
you can only marvel at the sheer lengths our ancestors went to. Its just such a shame that such knowledge
dwindles in this day and age (or at least is hidden or put to the side) where we put lots of value on science (nota bad thing of course). It makes you wonder though, ethics and morals wont be the same in years to come. In
this culture thats so shallow and vacuus, what then becomes valued and legitimized? Were at a point now
where were so caught up in wars, financial crises, corruption... when money and greed become the new focus ofmankind, it seems theres nothing decent to believe in anymore, or maybe Im just too cynical
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MyriosEx Member

Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #19 - on: 22.09.2008 at 17:22 [UT+1] »Quote from Eddy Bharani on 21.09.2008 at 13:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from Myrios on 20.09.2008 at 18:00 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eddy Bharani on 19.09.2008 at 10:01 [UT+1]:
The Egyptian Nut was in the Milky Way with her mouth between the constellations of Gemini and Taurus(near Al Nath or Beta Tauri). And her legs at the constellation Cygnus near the star Deneb where the Milky
Way is split into two parts/ the legs of Nut.
Taurus sometimes also was seen as sky uterus. with the horns of the bull then being the ovaria. Most
agricultural cultures projected their fertility god(desse)s in the sky.

Thanks for these interesting associations Eddy.
The long neck of cygnus (swan) between the legs of Nut ~ reminds of Leda and the Swan.
Taurus and Hat*Hor (b) with all her Egyptian (upper and Lower) Hats seem to be an inextricable PAIR even today ~ bearb = BULLin mind that A (Aleph) upside down = OX =Since we projected our own imbalanced concepts of "god" on the sky, and have landed in the mess we are in, perhaps it
really is time to reinvent our godlie pan*theo*n.
MyriosIt then seems to me that Taurus = A should be the first sign of the zodiac rather than Aries. A
Dutch writer (Gerard de Haas I believe) wrote that the myth of the Persian Mithras slaying the
Bull (and later the Spanish Bullfight) symbolizes the killing of an earth goddes sacrifying orfighting her to make the uncontrollable nature controlable.
AAhhhh..... Sacrificing EarthGoddess to make her more controllable ..... X marks the SPOT YOU ARE HERE.
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Eddy Bharani
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #20 - on: 22.09.2008 at 17:32 [UT+1] »I don't know where that author got that from but I know that he read books of Marija Gimbutas and GeorgesDumézil.
Other myths has heroes fighting huge snakes that where said to be causing drought and other enemies ofcrops. Most of those myths are embedded in an agricultural context.
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #21 - on: 22.09.2008 at 17:40 [UT+1] »X Marks the spot ....
You are here .... X ....
Here we all are ~ even the Great and Magus*tic White Wolf now returned as himself (Juan Revilla) agrees thatthe complexificated ((I made that word up just for you "Waybread" ~ btw is that your own ceresly christlyterm?
)) and Pseudo-scientific Art/Craft called "Astrology" of early Babylonian Sidereal fame but later
corrupted into pure rational Greek Zodiakal Hero-Myth Store*eye* Symbology is now deeply fallen into amathematical nightmare.
Where to now, oh fearlessly intrepid Skybound Virgin?
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #22 - on: 23.09.2008 at 19:02 [UT+1] »Waybread, I've been pouring over starmaps for several days now. The information contained in a Phillip's Atlas
Of The Universe (Patrick Moore, 2000) BY ITSELF would seem to make it impossible that anyone could
reasonably deny the connection between mythology, astronomy, and astrology ~ yet I see the derision aimed at
you on the Ceres Thread by certain fellows who would persuade us that you are wrong in pursuing mythology
as at least one reasonable foundational basis for understanding something of astrology.
In my own experience of life, I find it impossible to believe that any school-educated human walking the planet
today does not acknowledge that our lives and history have been built up largely upon myths of one sort oranother. Even those facts which we acknowledge as Truth in school texts, are based merely on the accepted
story as told by the particular teller, with his own peculiar native slant or "take" on the events recorded as F-AC-T.
In this sense, ALL life is a myth. We are all actors upon a stage, strutting our unique versions of reality.
I do want to support you in your search for astrological meaning through "mythos".
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #23 - on: 23.09.2008 at 20:42 [UT+1] »Of all the constellations I've been studying none strikes me with an "aha" moment quite so profoundly as that
named "LEO".
Rising clear in the nothern March sky, with Regulus (The Regulator) set like a jewel at the base of the chest,
while four stars create the majestic mane and four others complete the couchant Sphynx shape, Leo is surely aconstellation invented by the ancient Egyptians ~ I'd wager a large bet on it, going by the clear Sphynx shapealone. Cleopatra surely had a hand in this.
In front of Leo (nosewise) lies the poor insignificant and crushed upside down Y of Cancer ~ done in by
Hercules ~ surely a story of mythic proportion?
Under Cancer, Hydra the water snake (wisdom symbology at its most ancient) rears its head, while her long
body (its the largest constellation) winds under Sextans, Crater and Corvus, above which we find a large,
though rather empty patch of sky defined for us as Virgo. Her hair is defined by Coma Berenices (curl ofhair) we are advised. Arctures in Bootes is her dog, set aside to watch her child, defined as SPICA. I haveread other descriptions: Spica is her shoulder, her hand holding either the wheatsheaf or her child, even an
armpit. But if you look at this "body" it makes no sense as the shape of a human figure at all, unless you
indeed use Coma Berenices as the hair, in which case the curl may be joined to a long neck to reveal anothercouchant sphynx-like image, with one arm extended forward in front of the chest, and two legs extended fromthe rear of a rectangular body.
I find it significant that these two consecutive sidereal constellations can individually be seen to assume sphynxlike forms or shapes. Both as old as Egypt then? It only adds more detail to my personal understanding of
how our skymyths have been more recently overpainted, when I consider that another snake lies directly behind
Virgo, (perhaps as The Virgin Mother) beheaded ~ Serpens Caput and Cauda (serpent head and tail), while
Scorpio himself lurks, his pincers anciently defined by the Arabic terminology "North" and "South Claws" whichhave more recently been severed to create Libra ~ a relative newcomer to the zodiak (1800's).
Of further interest in terms of the conflation of symbol/imagery, is Eddy's Milky Way-as-Nut ~ whoa - Serpens
Cauda is sneaking up right between her open legs!! I've already connected Cygnus at Nut's crotch with Leda
and the Swan imagery ~ so there you have a further key to the "self perpetuating" mythos of the Great
Goddess ~ her egg needs only to be pierced for her to reproduce a clone of herself, remember. She does notneed a man for the task, unless she wants to produce men.
Still pondering.
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Re: Nut, ISIS, & SkyBound Virgo« Reply #24 - on: 25.09.2008 at 18:09 [UT+1] »I want to thank Wizard for this excellent link on the etymology, mythology, and symbolism of the constellation
Virgo, which appeared on the Ceres thread yesterday.
http://www.constellationsofwords.com/Constellations/Virgo.html
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