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Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both (Read 636 times)

geminifish
Member

Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both« on: 12.07.2016 at 00:04 [UT+1] »Does a planet on a house cusp operate in both houses to a certain degree? For example my venus is on my mc,
but I think maybe I have more of a 9th house venus than a 10th? Would than be for any reason? thanks

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somethoughts

Ex Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #1 - on: 12.07.2016 at 00:23 [UT+1] »Checked birthtime? Could be your factual BT is later moving MC foward.
Venus rules 9H so it plays out in 10H.
What do you think of this?
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Bjorkstrand
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Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #2 - on: 12.07.2016 at 01:41 [UT+1] »cusps are the center of the houses.
jim

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CygnusEx Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #3 - on: 12.07.2016 at 04:19 [UT+1] »Actually, a cusp is the initial point of an astrological sign or house. Placidus, Koch, Campanus, Regiomantus,
Porphyry and other house systems have different ways of deciding the degree at which a house begins.
Go to Extended Chart Selection, and create you natal chart over and over experimenting with the different
systems. You will find people who argue on behalf of their favorite method.
The oldest method is whole sign houses. The beginning of the house is the same as the beginning a sign. Your
Ascendant might be 13°Taurus or 24°Sagittarius; however, then entire 1st House is Taurus or Sagittarius.
With whole sign houses, the MC will be in a house, and any planet conjunct the MC will be in the same house.
Experiment with the house system that you like; then look at whole sign houses. Whole sign houses are theprimary system in Hindu/Vedic astrology, and were the primary choice in Hellenistic astrology.
Best wishes
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somethoughts
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Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #4 - on: 12.07.2016 at 04:39 [UT+1] »With whole sign houses, the MC will be in a house, and any planet conjunct the MC will be in the same house.
Experiment with the house system that you like; then look at whole sign houses. Whole sign houses are theprimary system in Hindu/Vedic astrology, and were the primary choice in Hellenistic astrology.
Best wishes[/quote]This was a good point. I forgot this, though I use whole house also (for the essence). Sort of being "ashamed"
for forgetting to write that.
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EJ53-2Ex Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #5 - on: 12.07.2016 at 08:49 [UT+1] »Quote from geminifish on 12.07.2016 at 00:04 [UT+1]:
Does a planet on a house cusp operate in both houses to a certain degree? For example my venus is on my mc, but I think maybe I havemore of a 9th house venus than a 10th? Would than be for any reason? thanks

Think of the 9th and 10th houses as being adjoining rooms, and the MC as being the doorway between them.
Your Venus stands in the doorway, entering the 10th house - but with a nagging doubt that an unextinguishedcigarette may still be burning in the 9th.......And, until that "unfinished business" has been dealt with, you
cannot move on (i.e.. focus fully upon the activities of the 10th).
[Note : Chiron in Taurus/9th might be the unfinished business here, since it squares both nodes. If so, achildhood-inflicted wound to your self-worth might hamper your Venus in Gemini/10th natally-promised ability
to "get on with anyone".]Back to top

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Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #6 - on: 12.07.2016 at 15:28 [UT+1] »I too have a planet right on the cusp. My A is 0.02a and my DC is 0.20a.. So technically my A is in the 6thhouse, yet it is right on the 7th house cusp. I can read it in either house, It is very much a 7th house A, but it
still fits with the 6th house themes also.. So for me I just read it as being in both houses. As for the sign.. Oye
my poor A is confused! ...that too seems very much both signs as well! I am def an aA but I have a lot of lqualities about it.. I thought I was a l until I was 18.. then when I discovered I was an a I denied it for a few
years lol! So basically I believe in cusps I guess.
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Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in botharunachala

Member« Reply #7 - on: 12.07.2016 at 17:55 [UT+1] »I would use equal house system and place your D clearly in H9.

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Krista ShippMember

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #8 - on: 12.07.2016 at 18:51 [UT+1] »Your Venus stands in the doorway, entering the 10th house - but with a nagging doubt that an unextinguishedcigarette may still be burning in the 9th.......And, until that "unfinished business" has been dealt with, you
cannot move on (i.e.. focus fully upon the activities of the 10th).

Such a GREAT analogy !!
I have one of those charts where if I use Koch ( I use Placidus)- it shift N D & nodal axis to H2 from H3
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Gender:& N J (2' into H2) into H1
But I think I will have that cigarette mentioned above
Whole sign** & equal house confuse me
We are creatures of habit
K** In H1 you see ASC and the two planets behind it in H1- whereas you are used to H12
So if they are behind the ASC- are they in H1 as shown? or H12 ?

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Bjorkstrand

Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #9 - on: 13.07.2016 at 02:28 [UT+1] »G is in the 1st
B is in the 7th
D is in the 10th
F is in the 12th
but the A is in the 10th and 11th, it shares 2 houses
Jim

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Matrika Matters
Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #10 - on: 13.07.2016 at 07:56 [UT+1] »Krista Quote:In H1 you see ASC and the two planets behind it in H1- whereas you are used to H12
So if they are behind the ASC- are they in H1 as shown? or H12 ?

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Hi Krista,
The house is determined by the sign in whole sign houses.
If planets are in the sign the AC is in, they are in the first house.
The AC can fall anywhere in that sign. Mine's at 120b and sun is at 80b. Sun is in 1st house using whole sign
houses.
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_Paul_Ex Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #11 - on: 13.07.2016 at 09:03 [UT+1] »I would interpret your Venus as being of the 10th house only. I use equal and placidus and pay attention towhole, in all these systems I would read your Venus as being of the 10th. In equal, Venus is within a few
degrees of the 10th house cusp making it much more related to the 10th than the 9th.
Earlier an analogy was given of the planet moving from the 9th to the 10th and hovering in the doorway not
yet finished with the 9th house themes, whilst I like this analogy, though in my opinion it's really more of a
backwards one. Really what is happening is that a planet, say Venus, will have risen at the ascendant and moveclockwise through the 12th house and then enter the 11th house at the 12th house cusp, Then will movethrough the 10th house and build up signification of the 10th more and more as it moves through, until, when
it's at the cusp itself, it is so powerfully pregnant with meaning and signification of the 10th that it powerfully
pertains to matters of the 10th. At this point you can either see it at the equal house cusp, in which case it is
the highest planet in the sky, or else at the MC in a quadrant system, in which case it is as high as it can go.
Either way, both have themes that pertain to the 10th and to recognition and elevation and applause andhonours.
Now as soon as it moves from the cusp of the 10th in these systems, it quickly begins to shed the significationof the 10th in favour of building up signification of the 9th. However in reality we have a few degrees to playwith it here, so as it moves a few degrees from the 10th we can still say it's really better describing the 10thhouse as it's still much more pregnant with 10th house meanings. Typically most people allow 5º or so for this,but some give it the orb of the planet in question. After about 5 or so degrees, the planet "falls" away from it's
elevation at the 10th. This sense of falling away is known as cadency (which in latin relates to falling) and where
we get our term cadent houses.
So for me it's less that Venus is in the 9th and has unfinished business there, but rather that Venus has beensojourning in the 10th and building up signification of the 10th and providing your time is correct, it is either
on the cadent side of the 10th house cusp, still very much of the 10th house but in the process of shedding it's
signification of the 10th in favour of signification of the 9th, or else you use a quadrant house and it is actuallyjust at the pinnacle of the 10th signification and not yet shedding any of that 10th signification.
Either way though, in terms of interpretation, it would be better to see that Venus as angular in the 10th.
Quote:
but I think maybe I have more of a 9th house venus than a 10th?

So why do you think that it is? What is it about your life that makes you think that it could be best describedby Venus in the 9th? It could be some other chart factor, or it could be that your time is incorrect.

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joke nMember

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #12 - on: 13.07.2016 at 10:49 [UT+1] »D rules your 9th.
so 9th house issues on your mc, are more visible.

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St. Hades

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Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #13 - on: 14.07.2016 at 17:42 [UT+1] »Based on my own experience, If the planet is in the last degrees of a house before the cusp of the next house,
it operates in both houses! I noticed that mostly in angular houses.
Yet if the planet was behind the cusp, it operates solely on the house it is in.

If your birth time is accurate, Your G and B are operating in both houses.

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leigha9
Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #14 - on: 14.07.2016 at 18:01 [UT+1] »Quote from St. Hades on 14.07.2016 at 17:42 [UT+1]:
Based on my own experience, If the planet is in the last degrees of a house before the cusp of the next house, it operates in both houses!
I noticed that mostly in angular houses.
Yet if the planet was behind the cusp, it operates solely on the house it is in.

If your birth time is accurate, Your

G and B are operating in both houses.

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Interesting.. how about in my case where my A is 0.02 and the 7th house cusp is 0.20.. the A is therefore
behind the cusp, so would it solely be read as in the 6th house? Or did I read that backwards?
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arunachala

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Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #15 - on: 14.07.2016 at 22:43 [UT+1] »Quote from _Paul_ on 13.07.2016 at 09:03 [UT+1]:
In equal, Venus is within a few degrees of the 10th house cusp making it much more related to the 10th than the 9th.

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Gender:This is nonsense. In equal D is in the ninth not tenth.
It is this kind of making it up as you go along, twisting what is actually shown in the chart to your own agenda
which gives astrology such a bad name.

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IP Logged_Paul_Ex Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #16 - on: 14.07.2016 at 23:20 [UT+1] »ArunchalaThis is the method of Ptolemy.
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Waybread

Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #17 - on: 17.07.2016 at 05:43 [UT+1] »GF, although there are mathematical explanations for each of the house systems, I tend to agree withastrologer Michael Munkasey https://www.scribd.com/doc/6495552/An-Astrological-HouseFormulary
who says that the "best" house system for a given chart is the one that best describes the situation at hand.
Venus: In a woman's chart, her sense of her femininity. In any gender, our powers of attraction in a
relationship. The fine and performing arts. Luxuries such as jewelry. Flowers. What you find beautiful. In
Gemini, Venus can be a bit of a flirt; enjoying the give-and-take of a new relationship; witty conversation, andvariety.
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Gender:So then your question is whether the 9th or 10th is a better fit. Are you oriented towards travel, higher
education, or developing a life philosophy? Or more oriented towards developing your career and public
image?
It can be helpful to play around with different house systems, because you may find some other planets
wiggling around, as well.
Then pay attention to transits. If a transiting planet pings on your Venus, does it summon up 9th or 10thhouse matters for you?
Generally I would read a planet on the leading edge of a house cusp as being active mostly in the next house.
For one thing, it will progress into it, early in the person's life.
In your case, given the proximity of your Venus to your MC, I think you're going to have a 10th house Venus inmost of the house systems. Equal House would put it in the 9th.

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afternoon sun
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Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #18 - on: 17.07.2016 at 09:44 [UT+1] »Quote from arunachala on 14.07.2016 at 22:43 [UT+1]:
Quote from _Paul_ on 13.07.2016 at 09:03 [UT+1]:
In equal, Venus is within a few degrees of the 10th house cusp making it much more related to the 10th than the 9th.

This is nonsense. In equal

D is in the ninth not tenth.

It is this kind of making it up as you go along, twisting what is actually shown in the chart to your own agenda which gives astrology sucha bad name.

Posts: 1351
Gender:I would be inclined to agree with Paul for the simple reason that the Midheaven will inevitably be affected byany planet that conjoins it. A conjunction blends the two positions. In this instance Venus is in a fairly
tight square to the Ascendant so is also conjunct the nonagesima or equal tenth cusp (4 degrees frompartile) and partile the MC.
Geminifish, I would tend to just read that as a MC Venus and I would look to see if there was any particularassociation of this position of Venus with your mother, the more so as Venus is in Gemini ruled by Mercury
in Cancer, and the Moon is partile square Venus. It may also involve
identify with.

a relationship or partnership that you

A square of Moon and Venus implies emotional upsets with others on account of an inability to see thingsfrom other people's viewpoints without experiencing considerable personal discomfort, and the placing ofSaturn on your ascendant completing a tight Tsquare across the angles of your chart brings this to thefore. Venus does rule your 9th house and Mars, which opposes Uranus, so you may focus your energies
towards a male who is foreign or from overseas or into some foreign interest, or put another way Mars being
almost unaspected in your chart except for a separating opposition to Uranus suggests there is an unusual
focus on that 9th house area (or may be at some stage) where you go overboard to the exclusion of others
or other aspects of your life.
Geminifish, I would be interested to hear if you have had any experiences along these lines.
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arunachala

Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #19 - on: 20.07.2016 at 18:31 [UT+1] »Quote from _Paul_ on 14.07.2016 at 23:20 [UT+1]:
ArunchalaThis is the method of Ptolemy.

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Gender:Really? Ptolomy recommended using Placidus while paying attention to equal and whole? Perhaps you could
reference the text?

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IP Logged_Paul_Ex Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #20 - on: 20.07.2016 at 18:43 [UT+1] »Quote from arunachala on 20.07.2016 at 18:31 [UT+1]:
Quote from _Paul_ on 14.07.2016 at 23:20 [UT+1]:
ArunchalaThis is the method of Ptolemy.

Really? Ptolomy recommended using Placidus while paying attention to equal and whole? Perhaps you could reference the text?

Don't be silly Arunchala, I was referring to the part of my post you quoted and disagreed with - obviously myentire post isn't a citation from Ptolemy.
Do you doubt that Ptolemy did exactly what I said in the part I quoted in which you accused me of making it
up as I go along, twisting what is actually shown in the chart to my own agenda and giving astrology such abad name?
Perhaps you realise your mistake now so wish to deflect to something else instead. If there's something else
you think I'm doing that is making it up as I go along and twisting what is shown in the chart, what is itexactly? The use of more than one house system at the same time? I'm equally in good company here too,several legendary astrologers of older times did similar, whether with those house systems in particular I'm notsure. If you believe certain experts on Greek astrology they all used at least two house systems at the sametime, and still others for certain purposes - I'm not sure I go along with all that, but it's worth pointing out theidea isn't unheard of.
If not the part you quoted, what is it you find me to be twisting and inventing as I go along?
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arunachala

Member

Re: Does a planet on a cusp house operate in both
« Reply #21 - on: 21.07.2016 at 20:34 [UT+1] »I am not a fan of using different house systems according to expediency. Unless you have a systematic methodof ascribing which system to use when, subjectivity will cloud the reading and the method will tend to fit thedesired result rather than the other way around.
Unless your picture is an old black and white digitally remastered I have been reading charts since before you

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Gender:were born. Like most who read I went through the stage of intellectualisation and learn to subjugate thepersonal to the objective. I hope my posts can challenge and prompt you to do the same in your own study.
House systems like Placidus and Koch inevitably break down in northern latitudes and as such while apparently
giving acceptable results in many charts can not be seen as fully objective unless you ascribe to the belief that
half the houses have zero importance if one is born past a certain degree north. The debate between equal andwhole is more subtle, but over many years equal has consistently brought more accurate results in my readings
to the best of my honest belief. If you have examples from your own readings/study where whole provides
more insight than equal I would be interested to hear them.
Regarding ascribing a planet clearly in the 9th house to the fourth quadrent I would respectfully disagree. Thereis a school of thought which says only the quadrent position is important, not the individual house and there ismuch truth in this. Between the 7th and 9th the boundaries can be blurred and looking at the houses
developmentally from the personal to the transpersonal this can be helful in cutting through too much detail tothe crux of the issue. The 9th, 10th, 3rd quadrent, 4th quadrent boundary, however is best left set in stone, thetwo quadrents have such a different interpretation that blurring them is hardly likely to bring greater clarity.
Your "this is the way of Ptolemy" comment is both flippant and arrogant. I make no apology for being blunt
and would hope with introspection you can see the truth in this statement. I'm no expert in ancient Greek
astrology, if you'd care to give some meaningful substance to your assertion that you understand how he usedhouse systems and back it with examples from your own empirical experience I am more than prepared tolisten.

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