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Big fat Jupiter lies (Read 569 times)

dog8818
MemberBig fat Jupiter lies
« on: 23.01.2009 at 03:52 [UT] »Attached is my solar return for this year. What's happened so far? My business tanked and I am in the processof closing it. I may lose my house (actually it's almost inevitable)... and my love life sucks. Jupiter on theMidheaven trine Saturn in the 5th.... what a pack of lies.

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Co-rulersFTW

Ex Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #1 - on: 23.01.2009 at 04:49 [UT] »Neptune and Mercury are the liars of astrology. The real problem with Jupiter here is that it is in Fall, the worst
debility it could possibly be under and Jupiter's is the entire sign of Capricorn. The fact that such a debilitatedplanet is this high in the sky does indeed seem ominous....
Mars is also in detriment.
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dog8818
Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #2 - on: 23.01.2009 at 05:25 [UT] »thank you C-RFTW, that explains a lot. Figures. The one year I get Jupiter on the Midheaven and it's in it's
most pitiful state. I have natal Venus/Merc. at 9 Virgo. Didn't do diddly for me. Except make it clear that mybusiness is failing. Oh well, no guts, no glory as my dad used to say.
-d

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Co-rulersFTW

Ex Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #3 - on: 23.01.2009 at 14:15 [UT] »According to Ptolemy, this Jupiter is dignified by term and by being above the horizon, though it is night. Still,
I'm not sure if the terms are of any use at all.
Maybe someone else can add some insight.
http://www.astrologycom.com/dignities.html
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Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #4 - on: 23.01.2009 at 14:29 [UT] »Hey dog....what's going on in your natal and progressed charts? To tell you the truth, some years I find Solar
Return charts more accurate than others. But transits and progressions are where the real answers are to
what's really going on and the cause of any major life upheavals and transformation, not so much in the Solar
Return chart, unless you read it along with the natal, secondary progressed and solar arc charts. At least that's
been my experience. I think the Solar Return chart works on a subtler plane.

Posts: 542

Maybe Jupiter on the MC means you'll eventually be in a "better place," even though it might not feel like itright now, and the gains will come later. Jupiter can mean "hidden protection," even though you don't see theGender:results yet.

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Pamela YoungEx Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #5 - on: 23.01.2009 at 14:36 [UT] »Hi Dog - I agree with Liza (Hi Liza!); I actually was just going to say the same thing as she did in her firstparagraph, but she beat me to it. Personally I've decided, on the basis of my own experience, that solar return
charts just cannot be relied upon to work consistently, so I threw them out years ago. It would be interesting
to see your natal chart with the transits and progressions, if you're willing to share it. Co-rulersFTW is right,
however, that having two debilitated planets will not be helpful at all, and Jupiter and Mars are probably
important planets for you, given what's happened.
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PerceNeige
Ex Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #6 - on: 23.01.2009 at 14:37 [UT] »Jupiter assembles Saturn. When Saturns invitations to structure yourself have not been successful, Jupiters
qualities cannot begathered.
Regards, PerceNeige
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LizaNYC

Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #7 - on: 23.01.2009 at 14:44 [UT] »Quote from Pamela Young on 23.01.2009 at 14:36 [UT]:Hi Dog - I agree with Liza (Hi Liza!); I actually was just going to say the same thing as she did in her first paragraph, but she beat me toit. Personally I've decided, on the basis of my own experience, that solar returns just cannot be relied upon to work consistently, so I
threw them out years ago. It would be interesting to see your natal chart with the transits and progressions, if you're willing to share it.
Co-rulersFTW is right, however, that having two debilitated planets will not be helpful at all, and Jupiter and Mars are probably important
planets for you, given what's happened.

Posts: 542
Gender:Hey, Pam! Great to see you again!

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Pamela YoungEx Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #8 - on: 23.01.2009 at 14:52 [UT] »Ditto, Liza, ditto.

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Ex Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #9 - on: 23.01.2009 at 17:17 [UT] »Quote from dog8818 on 23.01.2009 at 03:52 [UT]:Attached is my solar return for this year. What's happened so far? My business tanked and I am in the process of closing it. I may lose myhouse (actually it's almost inevitable)... and my love life sucks. Jupiter on the Midheaven trine Saturn in the 5th.... what a pack of lies.

Hi, dog. I'm sorry you're experiencing so much loss. I hope that you'll be able to keep your home and rebuild,
have a better business, and that in the end you'll be happier in many ways.
As far as a SR goes, the most important things to consider are the Asc, the house the Sun's in, and the mostpopulated house in your SR.
Your SR Asc is in Taurus. Taurus and Scorpio each rule two house cusps, emphasizing the material and thephysical. Next, you would look for clues that support gain or loss. 27 Taurus is on the cusp of the 2nd, theWeeping Sisters. Continuing on...
Your most populated house is the 6th House. This shows the area of life that you're going to be paying themost attention to. 6th House Mars/Mercury/Venus in Libra are intercepted and inconjunct Uranus, Venus being
the chart ruler of the SR, showing crisis. Venus in Libra being intercepted says to me that that Venus isn't
going to be available to you until perhaps later in the SR year.
Jupiter's conjunct the MC and in Capricorn, but it's actually in the 9th, so would emphasize
beliefs/travel/education much more so than career. With Pluto also in the 9th, it's likely your belief system willgo through a huge transformation this year.
Your SR Sun is in the 5th House. Jupiter trines Saturn, which looks good, but Uranus opposes your Sun in the
5th/11th. Also, Neptune is inconjunct your Sun. To me this shows a crisis affecting yourvitality/creativity/goals/children. Your natal Venus/Mars are conjunct SR Saturn in the 5th - not promising fora romance, at least not in the first part of the SR year. Maybe that trine from Jupiter will help out later in the
SR year.
When you take the solar return and put your natal on the outside of it, see what aspects are made from yournatal (and progressions) to the SR for more clues.
I find when looking at a solar return in hindsight it's easy to see how it's played out, but very difficult to accept
at the outset because circumstances can change drastically over the course of a year, and it's hard to believe
what you see sometimes. That's the problem with prediction. Also, often the house cusps turn out to reveal
information which is not knowable until later - as in the cusps (and planets and points) will relate to people one
interacts with during the year who will play an important role.
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IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #10 - on: 23.01.2009 at 19:39 [UT] »"Jupiter returns" are often not defined or explained in a manner that reflects the potential for seemingly difficult
events to happen that purposefully obliterate what is not working. Meaning, your life can expand, nee "blowup", in your face and feel aweful in the beginning, but with time and distance, once the dust settles, a new
direction opens up and your life becomes open to abundance and comes back together in a manner that you
cannot possibly expect when you are in the throws of it being destroyed. One of the most extraordinary things
that I have encountered is some people can have nervous breakdowns upon their Jupiter return and there is abreak in their psyche that opens them up to more productive thinking. With Saturn involved on the IC in thisevent it makes it more "public" and it can feel very humiliating. Losing love, a business and a house is a painful
trifecta of things to see fall away. It can appear Jupiter is blowing up everything you thought you needed. It willtake time to recognize why it is all going away, but remain focused on the possibility that you cannot have any

Posts: 3684

abundance in your life if there is clutter that needs cleaning out. Maybe your relationship held you back, maybe
your business really is just a stepping stone towards something bigger, maybe losing your house will actually
feel very "freeing" when time and retrospect kick in.

Gender:I had my Jupiter return and I lost everything, my marriage, my life as I knew it, my friends, and had
experienced the ultimate betrayal by someone I trusted implicitly several years ago. In the moment, I felt like
my work was going to come to an end, but here I am and I realized I learned some valuable lessons about myfalse senses of security I had with the material world, I learned that trust was based on my ability to really see
people for who they are, not what I want them to be, and I saw where I needed to improve areas of my self
worth and the quality of my relationships. I learned that no matter what was taken away, that I would be fine.
There was so MUCH I gleaned as the dust setttled. I learned what kind of people I wanted to surround myself
with, what kind of energy I wanted to embrace and I overcame alot of fears that held me back fromadventuring out in certain areas of my life. The energy of my return still resonnates with me. I am intimidated
by nothing and I'm afraid of nothing, because when you have lost everything, it can liberate you and teach you
how strong you really are. You find your center. Your pivot point. Your north star, if your chart allows for thiskind of excperience. He TEACHES you about all the things that you get or have gotten hung up on in life thatreally are a waste of energy.
Jupiter returns offer us dichotomy sometimes. My returns happen in my 8th house m my A. Personal
metamorphosis and transformation are the guaranteed lessons in my life at these moments. The key, withtaking your entire natal chart into consideration, especially your bAC is to allow for change to come. I haveplenty of fixed planets in my chart and I can tell you from experience that the resistence to change, that desire
for predicatbility and security can make the anticipation of change so much more painful than the even itself.

Fj likes power, and that includes having power over one's destiny. It's an uncomfortable position to feel thatforces are out of your control. So your return highlights that and the real gift is a cyclical opportunity toembrace the possibility that sometimes wonderful things happen on the other side of a miserable event.
Keeping focused on what you are losing will make it more painful. The opportunity here, the gift here, is torealize that something that give you a lot of anxiety, that maybe you really DON'T need, is being taken away
FOR you. Sometimes the universe does us a favor by ripping the rug out form underneath us just o test ourmettle for redesigning our lives into a more streamlined, efficient and meaningful way. And this includes
relationships, jobs, ways of thinking, our homes, friends, our perception of ourselves in the spotlight, and soon.
With this happening on your MC, this can feel very embarassing. With time, you will be happy it is all gone
because all the stuff, all the responsibilities and all the balls that you have been juggling in the air will no longer
be there and you will feel a release. We can become beasts of burden in our life, and get used to a certain
threshold of pain, and ironically be restant to the idea of giving up the job because we convince ourselves that
if we are not in pain, aren't bustin gour asses, then we must not be doing the right thing. Jupiter is not a liar.
He tells the truth. He tells you where you need to do somehouse keeping and ifyou don't clean up your house,
he'll do it for you. He wants to fill your life with wonderful things, but Saturn can be a packrat and unwilling toshare power and give up jobs and details that keep him "looking good" or "looking busy and productive".
If you can imagine your life a year from now, with a clean slate, Etch a Sketch in hand, and an opportunity to
redraw what you want your life to be, consider brain storming what that will look like right now, because this is
Jupiter's wonderul gift as well. Pour your heart and soul into visualizing what you want. If you take his
expansive power and team it up with the j focus and determination, you can rebuild an extraordinary new life.
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Ross/Saxony/

Ex Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #11 - on: 23.01.2009 at 21:41 [UT] »Quote from dog8818 on 23.01.2009 at 03:52 [UT]:Attached is my solar return for this year. What's happened so far? My business tanked and I am in the process of closing it. I may lose myhouse (actually it's almost inevitable)... and my love life sucks. Jupiter on the Midheaven trine Saturn in the 5th.... what a pack of lies.

Hi dog8818,
the whole situation is not about Jupiter, it's all about the mean old man Saturn, which is testing you till
September 2009. Try to get out of depression and non-act, you still have a chance to save your business.
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dog8818
Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #12 - on: 03.02.2009 at 06:45 [UT] »Ms. Miranda: *thank you*. I need to remember that before a door opens, one (or 50) may need to close.
Being a fixed Moon (B) I tend to hold onto things, despite being mainly mutable elsewhere.
Michelle: I hadn't noticed the degree of the 2nd house cusp. My natal Mars is 28 Taurus. Maybe the Pleadians
will come and help me. With the 9th house emphasis as you stated, perhaps I'll return to the legal career I
used to have. But I hate to let go of my wonderful metaphysical business (www.goddess-gifts.com) and"falling back" on what I used to do. Dilemmas! With Sun square Saturn natally it is easy for me to beat myself
up about this, but surprisingly I don't feel a "reputation" issue other than not liking it when customers want to
ask every detail about why I have to close the store.

Posts: 2645
Gender:Pamela, attached is my natal and progressions and transits. When you see that progressed gang up in the 7th,
please let me know what you think.
Perceneige: what????? Please explain further.
Ross Saxony: Give me some ideas. Investors? I'm sorry Saturn is squashing my creativity right now, nomatter how hard I try to squint and cough up ideas, they seems to get negated. By me.
I am currently looking into loan modifications and getting out of debt, meeting with an attorney this week.
The only way to save the business would be to find an investor.

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IP Logged*Abraxas*

Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #13 - on: 03.02.2009 at 18:17 [UT] »I think this progressed Sun Venus Jupiter is very auspicious for money-Venus rules your 2nd house of financeand your 7th house of partners/some type of partnership/investor would make sense. Pluto rules your 8th
house of investors/loans and natally joins Venus in your chart. Currently transit Pluto is p this Pluto. Can you
take your business to an online store?-and work from home-you have alot of activity on your IC/4th house cusp
now-progressed IC/Moon on your Venus/ Pluto. Just do your research and look at all angles-you haveprogressed Mercury in the 8th moving into strain Pluto in the next few years-this is showing the stress withdebts/loans. (Mercury natally rules your 3rd house of contracts/communications and your 6th house of daily
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Gender:routine/work). With transit Saturn moving into your 6th house over Sun in the next while you will find work
harder, more drudgery, heavier-its a time to buckle down and maybe do something else in the meanwhile (goback to what you did temporarily) Saturn rules your career in your chart-this transit Saturn straining natal
Saturn as well-Saturn in your 9th house of ideals-these are being tested now. Saturn will solidify your Sun
though and Mars in the 2nd so its truly a time of restructuring (Saturn) around career/10th and work/6th.

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cris_meMember

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #14 - on: 03.02.2009 at 19:10 [UT] »you all seem to be looking at that Solar Return as if it was a Natal or a transits charts - and it isn't. let's lookat your natal, transits on it, SA charts - and see what Jupiter really promises for you 'this year'.
on a general note, Jupiter is what some people call 'dharma' - what you reap; what you 'deserve'; that's how it
makes sense that sometimes, Jupiter transits bring 'bad' things.
my t FmA 12 years ago coincided with a liver dysfunction and a total breakdown of my whole life. in
retrospect, I was going the wrong way and those problems stopped me and help me notice how my life wasactually going and what stupid things I was actually doing to myself.
I know everybody wants fame and fortunes, but we don't all deserve them.
Posts: 2915
Gender:I'm not saying you don't! I'm saying youre reading too much into that chart and what's happening to you has
some other explanation.

In a Solar Return chart, unlike a natal or transits chart, Jupiter shows opportunities for expansion; how you cangrow during that year.
being in the 9th it points to education/travel/foreign affairs that would expand your view on life and would,
conj the MC, that expansion and development would, in turn, support your career or public standing.
like going mack to school and getting a degree that furthers your career; or a jouney to a foreign place that
opens you mind to new avenues of expansion or a spiritual discovery that brings some joy and optimism, andemotional support (maybe you rediscover God, or fnd yourself in some buddist temple in Asia, as some ppl
have - since Jup rules the 12th).
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Night Sky

Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #15 - on: 03.02.2009 at 19:27 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 23.01.2009 at 19:39 [UT]:"Jupiter returns" are often not defined or explained in a manner that reflects the potential for seemingly difficult events to happen that
purposefully obliterate what is not working. Meaning, your life can expand, nee "blow up", in your face and feel aweful in the beginning,
but with time and distance, once the dust settles, a new direction opens up and your life becomes open to abundance and comes back
together in a manner that you cannot possibly expect when you are in the throws of it being destroyed. One of the most extraordinary
things that I have encountered is some people can have nervous breakdowns upon their Jupiter return and there is a break in their psychethat opens them up to more productive thinking. With Saturn involved on the IC in this event it makes it more "public" and it can feelvery humiliating. Losing love, a business and a house is a painful trifecta of things to see fall away. It can appear Jupiter is blowing up

Posts: 993
Gender:everything you thought you needed. It will take time to recognize why it is all going away, but remain focused on the possibility that you
cannot have any abundance in your life if there is clutter that needs cleaning out. Maybe your relationship held you back, maybe yourbusiness really is just a stepping stone towards something bigger, maybe losing your house will actually feel very "freeing" when time andretrospect kick in.
I had my Jupiter return and I lost everything, my marriage, my life as I knew it, my friends, and had experienced the ultimate betrayalby someone I trusted implicitly several years ago. In the moment, I felt like my work was going to come to an end, but here I am and I
realized I learned some valuable lessons about my false senses of security I had with the material world, I learned that trust was based on
my ability to really see people for who they are, not what I want them to be, and I saw where I needed to improve areas of my self worth
and the quality of my relationships. I learned that no matter what was taken away, that I would be fine. There was so MUCH I gleaned as
the dust setttled. I learned what kind of people I wanted to surround myself with, what kind of energy I wanted to embrace and I
overcame alot of fears that held me back from adventuring out in certain areas of my life. The energy of my return still resonnates withme. I am intimidated by nothing and I'm afraid of nothing, because when you have lost everything, it can liberate you and teach you how
strong you really are. You find your center. Your pivot point. Your north star, if your chart allows for this kind of excperience. He TEACHES
you about all the things that you get or have gotten hung up on in life that really are a waste of energy.

mA

Jupiter returns offer us dichotomy sometimes. My returns happen in my 8th house my. Personal metamorphosis and transformation
are the guaranteed lessons in my life at these moments. The key, with taking your entire natal chart into consideration, especially yourbAC is to allow for change to come. I have plenty of fixed planets in my chart and I can tell you from experience that the resistence tochange, that desire for predicatbility and security can make the anticipation of change so much more painful than the even itself. Fj
likes power, and that includes having power over one's destiny. It's an uncomfortable position to feel that forces are out of your control. So
your return highlights that and the real gift is a cyclical opportunity to embrace the possibility that sometimes wonderful things happen on
the other side of a miserable event. Keeping focused on what you are losing will make it more painful. The opportunity here, the gift here,
is to realize that something that give you a lot of anxiety, that maybe you really DON'T need, is being taken away FOR you. Sometimes
the universe does us a favor by ripping the rug out form underneath us just o test our mettle for redesigning our lives into a morestreamlined, efficient and meaningful way. And this includes relationships, jobs, ways of thinking, our homes, friends, our perception of
ourselves in the spotlight, and so on.
be happy it is all gone because all the stuff, all the responsibilities and all the balls that you have been juggling in the air will no longer bethere and you will feel a release. We can become beasts of burden in our life, and get used to a certain threshold of pain, and ironically berestant to the idea of giving up the job because we convince ourselves that if we are not in pain, aren't bustin gour asses, then we mustnot be doing the right thing. Jupiter is not a liar. He tells the truth. He tells you where you need to do somehouse keeping and ifyou don't
clean up your house, he'll do it for you. He wants to fill your life with wonderful things, but Saturn can be a packrat and unwilling to sharepower and give up jobs and details that keep him "looking good" or "looking busy and productive".

Ms Miranda, I really liked this post. F can make you think stuff is falling to pieces, but in reality it´s about newopportunities, and you can´t have new stuff if you don´t lose the old. Trouble for j I suppose is that this sign
is attached to the old. Affraid of change. I´m gonna save this piece because I think it´s got that F wisdom andhope in it.
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IP Logged*Abraxas*
Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #16 - on: 03.02.2009 at 19:34 [UT] »My interpretation is looking at your natal/progressed and solar. I never consider the solar in isolation. But
what's important in a solar is the angular points-here Jupiter/MC and how that impacts your natal or
progressed. That solar Jupiter is impacting that progressed spread of Sun Jupiter Venus in a pretty tightsextile. That is a powerful indicator. Looking at a solar, its important to always compare with the natal-it has tosomehow connect dots and the overall theme with progressions and transits. Jupiter in your Solar return
although in the 9th is near the 10th cusp in the natal chart-showing this emphasis on career. The recent
eclipses are also in your natal 10th house as the recent eclipse Jan 26 with Jupiter part of this eclipse-Jupiter is
Posts: 6447
Gender:thus also transiting your 10th. Jupiter natally in the 7th house has been strained by the recent transit Jupiterand the eclipse. Jupiter is now progressed to a pinnacle point on Sun and Venus-lots of Jupiter here now.
Jupiter rules your 9th house natally - so everything 9th house is emphasized too-ideals, philosophies, legal
issues, higher learning, travel-long term planning-goal setting.

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Michelle

Ex Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #17 - on: 03.02.2009 at 19:55 [UT] »Dog, looking at your Aries/Libra interception ( a room within a room that is temporarily inaccessible, as
Cranberry explains) in Houses 6/12...seems to show what you were talking about in another thread about ahealth issue related to weight gain and not being able to exercise it off.
Jupiter in Cap conj the MC makes total sense if you're going back to the legal field.
The solar return chart becomes clearer as the year progresses.
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IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #18 - on: 03.02.2009 at 21:25 [UT] »Quote from Night Sky on 03.02.2009 at 19:27 [UT]:

F can make you think stuff is falling to pieces, but in reality it´s about new opportunities, and you
j I suppose is that this sign is attached to the old. Affraid of change. I´mgonna save this piece because I think it´s got that F wisdom and hope in it.
Ms Miranda, I really liked this post.

can´t have new stuff if you don´t lose the old. Trouble forThanks... I hope it helps. I was forwarned on my own and it went down as a less than happy time, but it
blessed me down the road with a personal cleansing and rebirth. At any rate, I can't let my 8th (ACF) and9th (BDJ) house stelliums (and personal experience) go to waste.

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Tim Wilson

MemberJupiter, to dog« Reply #19 - on: 03.02.2009 at 21:56 [UT] »dog,
You said:
Quote from dog8818 on 03.02.2009 at 06:45 [UT]:
I am currently looking into loan modifications and getting out of debt, meeting with an attorney this week.

Posts: 4706

F (expansion, also law_ is also connected with the law and legal matters. F o (energy needs to be combinedwith) D (physical, also personal money) could indicate large personal money issues. Sometimes Solar Returnplanets don't symbolize what we want them to...but they are always in there one way or another indicating the
major issues of the year.
Turning and returning,
Tim

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dog8818
Member

Re: Big fat Jupiter lies
« Reply #20 - on: 04.02.2009 at 06:59 [UT] »Well if Jupiter represents the Truth, and it's on the Midheaven, I have had to face the Truth about themetaphysical store I own.
Other threads have talked about the "accursed degrees", of which I have 3 in my natal chart: mars at 28 b,
Uranus at 14 e and Moon at 13 h.
Today I just feel like crawling under a rock like the proverbial scorpion. I had my shot at my dream, and Saturnon my Sun is telling me it's time to face reality. Uranus opposite my Sun will show the Next Right Action.
Spiritual warriors have to await the will of the Universe.
The saddest part is telling my regular customers that the store is closing. It's really been a haven for quite a
Posts: 2645
Gender:few very wonderful women. It has been a wonderful 2.5 years.
Thanks to everyone who responded. Even when I use the natal location for the solar return, Neptune is on theMidheaven. Time to move on, unless a miracle occurs (and I do believe in them) and an investor wants in.

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