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Equal House System Question (Read 332 times)

Giles Harris
MemberEqual House System Question« on: 25.09.2021 at 20:09 [UT+1] »Hi all,I've recently been messing with different house systems. I've always used Placidus for the simple reason that

Posts: 11

that is what I was taught but lately I have watched videos and read that a lot of astrologers are now using theequal house system so I decided to experiment with it a little.
At first it seems a little strange. My MC is now in my 11th house and some of my planets have moved from one
house to another and I have new rulerships to study up and understand. So, while this is new, it is not mymain concern.
What worries me is this: if the sign and house cusps are now in exactly the same place this would suggest thateveryone on earth has, for eg, pluto moving houses at exactly the same time! This really makes no sense to me
at all. Suddenly the uniqueness of our transits has been trivialised to a very large extent.
Does anyone else see this? What is the workaround?
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afternoon sun

Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #1 - on: 26.09.2021 at 00:48 [UT+1] »GH Quote:
What worries me is this: if the sign and house cusps are now in exactly the same place this would suggest that everyone on earth has, foreg, pluto moving houses at exactly the same time!

No. Everyone with the same Ascendant degree will have it making the same aspect to Pluto, as happens now.
But by starting the 12 house structure from the Ascendant we will also know Pluto's house position.
is nothing magical or unexpected about this.
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Don't forget every Equal House cusp forms an aspect to the Ascendant and these aspects partake of thenature of the houses to some extent (or vice versa), so there is a structural matrix underpinning Equal Houses.

Equal Houses is how I learned astrology. Hand-drawn charts kept it simple. and I still find it useful especiallywhen looking at chart patterns, or looking at charts from extreme lattitudes.
The thing is there are numerous perspectives; whichever way you choose to standardise your information willemphasize some things and de-emphasize others.
Astrology generally places the earth at the centre as if everything orbits it when we know that is not true, but
it's a useful perspective. And we get more specific by locating our position on the earth's crust, and someget even more specific by using parallax which could alter the Moon's position by a degree or so, but may
ignore other factors like how close or how distant the moon is in a chart. We have our own ways we like torationalise things.
I think you should be able to do a perfectly reasonable interpretation using an Equal House chart. It's a map.
but you can look at other maps too. Learn the basics well so you can experiment. Nobody is the full bottle on
astrology.
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Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #2 - on: 26.09.2021 at 04:08 [UT+1] »Giles, I think the "best" house system depends upon several variables.
1. If you have an exact time of birth or an event, then Placidus is very time-sensitive. But what if a horoscope
native says that she has no exact birth time on a hospital record or birth certificate, but the best Mom canremember is that she was born "around 1:00"? Birth times prior to the early-mid 19th century in Europe andNorth America, where they existed, were often rounded to the nearest hour. Assuming you don't have tochoose between two different ascentants, in cases like these, whole signs seem more intellectually honest. The
uniform 0-degree house cusps don't imply an accuracy in timing that doesn't exist.
2. The high-latitude birth problem, where quadrant house widths can be terribly skewed.
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Gender:3. There is pretty good evidence that Hellenistic astrologiers used whole sign houses. Poryphery and maybe
equal houses were around in late Antiquity but anyone wishing to faithfully practice Hellenistic astrology would
probably use whole signs houses.
4. Australian astrologer Alice Portman (member Alice McDermott) argues that different natives responddifferently to different house systems. I think this is true. Sometimes Placidus just doesn't explain what is
known about a person's life. A good example is the chart of multi-billionaire investment guru Warren Buffet.
Whole signs just seemed to do a better job of explaining his life than Placidus does.
5. I think also different astrologers respond better or worse to different house systems. Which system is most
comfortable for you?
Theoretically, Pluto changing signs would hit everyone's 0-degree house cusp simultaneously. But we would still
have 12 different house ingresses. Then some people would be mightily affected if Pluto simultaneously
aspected a chart angle or another planet; whereas for other people, it wouldn't have much of an effect. Some
astrologers consider out-of-sign aspects, but others don't. So some variability is reduced with whole signs, butthere is still a fair bit of individuation.

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Giles Harris

Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #3 - on: 26.09.2021 at 18:32 [UT+1] »Those are both solid answers.
But as the rising sun sets the tone for the sun for the day, in the same way I feel that the moment of birthreally does set the exact point for the start of the 1st house. Of course, given that the exact birth time is
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known, rare as that may be. (I was fortunate to be present and in the room for the births of both my kids andrecorded the precise moment that they took their first breath of air). So my takeaway here is that at least intheory if you are able to be precise then a house system that takes locality and time into full account should be
used.

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afternoon sun
Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #4 - on: 26.09.2021 at 20:46 [UT+1] »All house systems based on the Ascendant take locality and time into consideration and have the same
Ascendant Desc axis and MC -IC axis. How one divides the inbetween house cusps is the question. The
ancients considered the 30 degree distances from the Ascendant to be repeated around the wheel assensitive points in each sign, or kentrons for each sign; although kentrons are more typically taken to mean
just the angles. But there are many ways of dividng the space between the angles, The Placidean housesystem is time based system whilethe campanian is space based. I use the Placidean (a time-based system)and equal house systems the most. Here is an article that elaborates on a traditional astrology view.
https://patrickwatsonastrology.com/it-works-for-me-different-purposes-for-differ
enthouse-systems/
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Heßen Lutz

Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #5 - on: 26.09.2021 at 21:54 [UT+1] »Hi,
I am using Whole Signs Houses and am quite happy with it having tested it with my chart. I initially started
with Placidus.
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Geoffrey Hillend
Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #6 - on: 26.09.2021 at 22:30 [UT+1] »One has to remember that the houses are based on the turning of the Earth on it's axis. Consequently. A newsign is rising every two hours. There is thirty degrees in every sign. 120 minutes divided by 30 equals 4
minutes for every degree of rising. Pluto can only be at the same degree in a house for another person who is

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born not too far West or East of one's own birth place and time. Remember the Earth has many different times
zones on it. Consequently, place matters so someone born on a latitude hundreds of miles away will have a
different rising sign. Since the Earth has many different time zones, not everyone will have the same houses orrising sign. A solar chart give a 24 hour period so it can't have any houses.

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Geoffrey Hillend

Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #7 - on: 26.09.2021 at 22:34 [UT+1] »It is true that anyone who is born on the same longitude exactly at the same time will have the same degree ofrising sign, and will experience planets transiting the same houses at the same time. One has to be born along
the same longitude and at the same time. The further in time apart the more the sign will be at a different
degree. One hour difference will result in a 15 degree difference in the ascending sign.
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Geoffrey Hillend
Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #8 - on: 26.09.2021 at 22:56 [UT+1] »This applies to all house systems which use an ascendant as the first house cusp and also the whole sign
system.

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IP Loggeddildeolupbiten

Ex Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #9 - on: 27.09.2021 at 02:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 26.09.2021 at 22:30 [UT+1]:
A new sign is rising every two hours. There is thirty degrees in every sign. 120 minutes divided by 30 equals 4 minutes for every degree ofrising.

The length of time the signs stay in houses varies according to latitude. Libra is the zodiac sign that stays thelongest in the rising sign in the Northern Hemisphere. It's quite the opposite in Southern Hemisphere.
Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 26.09.2021 at 22:34 [UT+1]:
It is true that anyone who is born on the same longitude exactly at the same time will have the same degree of rising sign

Unfortunately this is not true either. We also have to take the axial tilt (obliquity) into account.
Below you can see a table with the change dates of the ascendant signs today, at a place of +30 degrees
latitude (north) and +20 degrees longitude (east).
Date

Position

Sign

2021-09-27 01:34 0° 0' 1"

Leo

2021-09-27 03:55 0° 0' 10" Virgo
2021-09-27 06:14 0° 0' 3"

Libra

2021-09-27 08:32 0° 0' 6"

Scorpio2021-09-27 10:53 0° 0' 2"

Sagittarius

2021-09-27 13:10 0° 0' 12" Capricorn
2021-09-27 15:10 0° 0' 9"

Aquarius

2021-09-27 16:47 0° 0' 0"

Pisces2021-09-27 18:12 0° 0' 3"

Aries

2021-09-27 19:36 0° 0' 3"

Taurus2021-09-27 21:13 0° 0' 11" Gemini2021-09-27 23:13 0° 0' 5"

CancerAnd below you can see a table with the change dates of the ascendant signs today, at a place of -30 degrees
latitude (south) and +20 degrees longitude (east).
Date

Position

Sign

2021-09-27 01:12 0° 0' 12" Cancer
2021-09-27 03:12 0° 0' 10" Leo2021-09-27 04:49 0° 0' 2"

Virgo

2021-09-27 06:14 0° 0' 4"

Libra

2021-09-27 07:38 0° 0' 4"

Scorpio2021-09-27 09:15 0° 0' 12" Sagittarius
2021-09-27 11:15 0° 0' 5"Capricorn

2021-09-27 13:32 0° 0' 1"

Aquarius

2021-09-27 15:53 0° 0' 11" Pisces2021-09-27 18:12 0° 0' 2"

Aries

2021-09-27 20:30 0° 0' 5"

Taurus2021-09-27 22:51 0° 0' 3"

GeminiConclusion: In the light of the above data, the number of people whose rising sign are Virgo or Libra shouldbe the highest in the northern hemisphere. And it should be quite the opposite in southern hemisphere. This
fact even shows itself in the house-sign distribution of the people in the Astrodatabank.
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IP LoggedWaybreadMember

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #10 - on: 27.09.2021 at 04:11 [UT+1] »Giles, are you familiar with "An Astrological House Formulary," by Michael P. Munkasey?
https://pdfcoffee.com/an-astrological-house-formulary-pdf-free.html
He goes through the math involved in calculating house cusps for each of the major systems. Possibly one or
another formula will make more sense to you than the others.
But Munkasey says that the "best" house system is the one that puts the planets in the houses that make themost sense for the given chart being interpreted. He wrote:"...use that house system which divides space in such a way that the planets fall into houses which describe
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Gender:their function in the nature of the event; and, use that house system which gives cusps against which you cantime events. That is, if the Moon function of this event is described well by a Moon in the eighth house, thenthe house system you choose should not place the Moon in the seventh or ninth, or some house other than theeighth house. Also, if subsequent events cannot be timed to the house cusps derived mathematically andplotted on the horoscope,then choose some other house system."
To me this looks like playing around with different house systems to see which gives the best fit for an event or
nativity-- if you can. Obviously a blind horoscope reading wouldn't give you much to go on.
There are methods of timing other than using house cusps, but I'd suggest just keeping an open mind aboutother house systems while using the one with which you have the greatest facility.

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Heßen Lutz

Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #11 - on: 27.09.2021 at 04:39 [UT+1] »Quote from Waybread on 26.09.2021 at 04:08 [UT+1]:
Giles, I think the "best" house system depends upon several variables.
1. If you have an exact time of birth or an event, then Placidus is very time-sensitive. But what if a horoscope native says that she has noexact birth time on a hospital record or birth certificate, but the best Mom can remember is that she was born "around 1:00"? Birth times

Posts: 33

prior to the early-mid 19th century in Europe and North America, where they existed, were often rounded to the nearest hour. Assuming
you don't have to choose between two different ascentants, in cases like these, whole signs seem more intellectually honest. The uniform
0-degree house cusps don't imply an accuracy in timing that doesn't exist.
2. The high-latitude birth problem, where quadrant house widths can be terribly skewed.
3. There is pretty good evidence that Hellenistic astrologiers used whole sign houses. Poryphery and maybe equal houses were around inlate Antiquity but anyone wishing to faithfully practice Hellenistic astrology would probably use whole signs houses.
4. Australian astrologer Alice Portman (member Alice McDermott) argues that different natives respond differently to different housesystems. I think this is true. Sometimes Placidus just doesn't explain what is known about a person's life. A good example is the chart ofmulti-billionaire investment guru Warren Buffet. Whole signs just seemed to do a better job of explaining his life than Placidus does.
5. I think also different astrologers respond better or worse to different house systems. Which system is most comfortable for you?
Theoretically, Pluto changing signs would hit everyone's 0-degree house cusp simultaneously. But we would still have 12 different houseingresses. Then some people would be mightily affected if Pluto simultaneously aspected a chart angle or another planet; whereas forother people, it wouldn't have much of an effect. Some astrologers consider out-of-sign aspects, but others don't. So some variability is
reduced with whole signs, but there is still a fair bit of individuation.

This is a point. Using Placidus, Pluto and the North Node fall in the 8th House but using Whole Signs, Pluto falls
in the 9th in Libra and Saturn and North Node fall in the 8th in Virgo.
Although I am highly sexed with Sun Venus Uranus and MC in Scorpio I am very careful as well regarding STDs
(8th House Virgo Saturn and North Node).
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Geoffrey Hillend
Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #12 - on: 27.09.2021 at 07:16 [UT+1] »Dildeolupbiten I meant using someone's natal chart which uses the exact time, day month and year and exact
location. The time zones stay relatively the same going north or south, so I assumed someone born at thesame time day month year and longitude, but 20 degrees further north would have the exact same rising

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degree like say an ascendant with 15 degrees in a sign, but I used my own chart and changed the latitude
place of birth to 50 degrees north but the rising sign stayed the same but the degree changed, I lost fivedegrees , The problem is the Earth is a sphere and the longitude lines don't stay the same distance apart andalso some time zones are not straight lines on the globe.
The point is though was already written by other posters here that we don't have all the same house degrees
and we do have therefore different personalities.

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AloisGlobal Moderator
Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #13 - on: 27.09.2021 at 08:52 [UT+1] »The MC stays the same if you change latitude north or south.
The Ascendant does not stay the same at all, but varies strongly with latitude.
Someone born at 50° north with ascendant 19 Libra will have 22° Scorpio at latitude 50° south.
Place names like North Fifty and South Fifty exist in our atlas, all with Greenwich meridian, so that you canexperiment.

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Geoffrey Hillend
Member

Re: Equal House System Question« Reply #14 - on: 27.09.2021 at 22:36 [UT+1] »Yes, I noticed that. I also noticed one can find a point north of the natal chart which still has the sameascendant but I have to change the longitude and latitude up to five degrees. I don't know if the MC moves,

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but if we use the equal house system that is o.k., i.e., I only use it as a sensitive point, but not to construct thehouses. The significance is not much though because what are the odds of another person being born therewith the exact same time or even within ten minutes of one's birth. I also wonder what the odds are ofsomeone having a birth time close to ones own in the exact same location. I bet they are slim
Suppose we find someone like that. They would have a very similar personality, but the other person might
express more of a different planetary archetype than oneself. There are fraternal twins which have the same
rising sign which are not genetically identical. When it comes to shorter units of time like minutes, genetics
takes precedence. The reason is that the other person is not related so that person has different genetics or
not a relative, so it's something like fraternal twins but with even less genetic similarity. and how fast thehuman race as a whole has children. I don't think one can see the differences in the physical body symbolized
in two identical charts with two unrelated people with almost the same birth time.
example. Maybe it's a change in the degree of rising sign and it's aspects.

Fraternal twins are a good

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