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Stuck in grief what would point to this? (Read 319 times)

scorpiogal
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Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« on: 15.09.2014 at 12:32 [UT+1] »My poor mum is stuck in her grief for my dad. He passed away 29th May 2010 and she feels like it wasyesterday. She seems to be suffering really badly at the moment. I noticed when Neptune went retrograde
there was a reaching out from her as up until that point she was very enveloped in her grief, lashing out trying
to guilt trip, especially me. She has been drinking too much, but again with Neptune retrograde has managed
to cut back. Neptune goes direct in November and I feel she may slide yet again. Any thoughts of help for her?
I am encouraging her to seek counselling for her grief too.

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Nikki.

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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #1 - on: 15.09.2014 at 12:38 [UT+1] »It might be worth looking at her chart in terms of what her husband represented to her, what did he provide(security, support, grounding etc). Then you can perhaps guide your mom into recapturing those attributes forherself, so she will feel the loss obviously but she wont feel like she is drowning without an anchor
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scorpiogal
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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #2 - on: 15.09.2014 at 13:03 [UT+1] »Thank you Nikki. Unfortunately I don't know her birth time, nor she. I have always thought Gemini as the asc
which would place her uranus/saturn in the 12th, uranus squaring her moon and venus. Her sun would becancer 2nd house as she values expensive things, especially for the home, she is very attached to objects. She
has always thought she was never good enough, pretty enough for my dad. Very flirtatious when younger
needing lots of validation, constantly moving, constantly thinking, exhausting to be aroundmy dad had aGemini moon and aqua venus, so I thought a possibility. If correct it would make pluto transiting 8th house.
My dad left her well provided for.

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Nikki.

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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #3 - on: 15.09.2014 at 13:23 [UT+1] »You don't need the chart, just try and figure out what role you dad played in her life did he do the finances?
Did he do the organisation ? Did he provide emotional support? Was he the one that was more social etc.

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Gender:She also might struggle with the idea of being alone,and doesn't want to live in the now because reality doesn't
contain her husband.
Cancerians find it hard to let go of the past also. Has she cleared out his things, and got rid of what isn't
neded? Does she still do what she used to do, go out etc She might be slipping into the martyr role, using grief
as an excuse .
Has she gone through the different stages of grief, if not which stage is she stuck on?

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Friesiangal
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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #4 - on: 15.09.2014 at 18:02 [UT+1] »Saturn is associated with grief, and its transit through Scorpio could well have something to do with yourmum's feelings.
Death is so final and is hard to accept.

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Gender:Coming to terms with her grief through counselling could well help her with Chiron in Pisces. If there areaspects to her Sun in Cancer, the water trine could be beneficial. Neptune in Pisces might be inclined towards'self pity' in one way or another. If your parents were very close, 'letting go' and facing the reality of loss isseldom seen as an option. As Nikki mentioned, there are different stages of grief (5, I believe) that one goedthrough.
Hope she will soon be feeling better.

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scorpiogal

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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #5 - on: 15.09.2014 at 18:18 [UT+1] »Hi Nikki. My dad was her holiday companion, he also did the finances which I helped sort after his death for her.
He stopped her been a loose cannon, our relationship got worse after his death because she said what she
thought with no regard of the cinsequences. He also put her on a pedastal, bought her expebsive gifts and fixed
the home to her perfect standards. As for the grief she is resentful, angry and depressed. She talks of guilt abd
asks constantly if I have visited his grave. She has even managed to get some young guy at work to put
fkowers on dads grave when she is on holiday. My partner and I took her in for 7 months to help, but she didnt
want to heal, just drink which caused a separate set of problems. She has been given counselling infi but says
she doesnt know and is now going back to her doctors. The doctor gives her antidepressants which she doesnt
taje as directed any way. Because of her general invasion of boundries with her I have to limit contact, but I still
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Gender:care and want her to heal and be happy.

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Nikki.

Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?

Member« Reply #6 - on: 15.09.2014 at 20:15 [UT+1] »Sounds like she is trying to project issues outwards and not deal with them.
It also sounds like your dad was her saturn, if she is very neptunian and watery,he might have provided thecontainer that gave her boundaries, now he is gone she hasnt got that.
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Gender:so where is her saturn? and south node?

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scorpiogal

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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #7 - on: 15.09.2014 at 20:41 [UT+1] »Her saturn is gemini and south node aqua. My dad would put up with so much then get angry. She always
wanted the best and he tried very hard. He was neptunian also and had a drink problem that was well hidden. I
wonder what was the truth sometimes
I think he became more aggressive with it later on as my mum hadcomplaints from her neighbour which she down played much of the time. She is so stubborn
my brothershumour her instead of looking at her happiness and that she deserves that in life. I have a family with aninability to be truthful and not hurt others

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Nikki.

Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?

Member« Reply #8 - on: 15.09.2014 at 20:46 [UT+1] »I think you need to focus on yourself and your boundaries.
I have a family that likes to re-write history too, you just need to know internally what is the truth, and holdonto that.
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Gender:You cant give anyone happiness, its not a gift you can give. its also a shared responsibility so perhaps speak toyour siblings and work on a consistent approach rather then going alone

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scorpiogal

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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #9 - on: 15.09.2014 at 21:16 [UT+1] »Thank you Nikki great advice as always

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Linda Harris
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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #10 - on: 16.09.2014 at 03:29 [UT+1] »There are a lot of different types of grief. There's grief over death...but even that can be broken down into
different areas.
There's grief over losing one's daily routine...even if it was difficult.

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there's grief over lifestyle loss.
There's grief over losing one's youth and looks.
there's grief over having to move to another house or environment.
There's grief over losing one's friends to death or even moving away.
It WOULD help to see your mom's chart.
Even if it is just a dawn or noon chart.
I suggest noon.
With the transits of the date of your dad's passing.
Unless the grieving person speaks openly and freely to those around her it's really a guess what is at the core oflong term grief.
The chart will take a lot of the guesswork out of the situation....if you are seriously concerned with the core
issues.
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scorpiogal

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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #11 - on: 16.09.2014 at 17:28 [UT+1] »Thank you Linda. She is very depressed and I worry

I previously posted 2010 as the year. I am posting byphone and dads death was 2011. Difficult to see the letters and numbers

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astro_2gw_16_mum_noon_chart.45971.36581.gif

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Linda Harris
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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #12 - on: 16.09.2014 at 23:50 [UT+1] »Hi...
I think if you take a good look at your mom's chart you will recognize that she has some basic inborn
depressive traits.
Neptune square Mercury....that's a big one and doesnt depend upon the time of her birth
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Mars is square Jupiter....
Neptune is unconjunct Mars.
These are both aspects of pressure. AND they depend upon a "man" in her life to manifest andoperate...without the man the Mars represents her OWN energy which, since the man is not there anymore,
now represents the male part of her psyche.
When you spend a lifetime with a man and he is the representation of the male energy, what happens when heis gone??
YOU see, her whole perspective changes and she is left with a lot of facts and questions and feelings and beliefs
and energy that become a source of great discomfort.
Plus, her moon is in Virgo...the sign of the "fixer". If she was using her emotions and energy to keep her life
balanced because she was the one who did a lot of "fixing", what is she supposed to do now?
Saturn squares that moon so I'm pretty sure she DID do a lot of fixing. She used a lot of energy thatconnected her to the man in her life.
Saturn transitting in Scorpio has not been friendly, and even when it changes sign it will be square her Venus.
ANd if you will notice, transit Uranus is EXACTLY square her SUN right now.
So: she needs something to DO. Something to untilize her energy.
SAturn is Scorpio did a number on her Leo planets and she got in a terrible rut.
Using a computer, joining a group for walking or other either exercise or activity, being a closer part of the
lives of her children, ....being useful....she needs to USE her energy and not get "rusty." At her age, rust isdeadly.
Your mom is having an identity crisis at age 71. It's something a lot of women go through and there's no"textbook" to tell one how to navigate that. Women outlive men. We have to go on and make changes in ourlives and accept that now we need to focus on ourselves ....and boy, this is really hard if
the person never did that before. If she lived for others, and they are now gone or independent it really sucks.
So the core issues are not the transits ...although there are some crappy ones... but her own identity which
probably was not fully developed before she became a mom.
If she did have a career or higher education before marriage and children, maybe she can possibly reach backand find some unfinished business....a "bucket list" if you will. Things she always wanted to do but never had
the time or motivation once she was married.
Those are my first thoughts,
Lainieand of course it would help if she could see someone who deals with older women...to talk with and get out her
feelings and thoughts .....I'm a believer in "talk therapy". It couldn't hurt.

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scorpiogal

Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?

Member« Reply #13 - on: 17.09.2014 at 12:41 [UT+1] »Thank you so much Linda. You are so correct about the ' fixing ' she always wants to fix things because she
thinks she is the best at it. She had no career when she married, no education apart from the basics. Although
she ruled the family she relied on dad for other things, such as doing the house up, organising bills. She has
always worked and still does. Mum has lots of nervous energy and a temper to boot when things don't go herway. When dad developed Parkinson's she truly indulged in the role of caretaker then the role of martyr as shewouldn't allow the equipment and people into her life to take the strain. She wanted her children to do that,which was pretty unreasonable. We have tried the computer avenue to which she says is a waste of money! Sheis scared of the new, but it is the new which will give her a whole new perspective on her life. There is and was
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Gender:more than work, cleaning and children. My mum in law is a little younger and lost her husband too and loves
her ipad, is going on holiday to visit family and is not bitter at other peoples enjoyment of life. I get marriedsoon Linda and I know she will make me feel rubbish as dad is not here. I haven't told anyone in case she finds
out before I say something. She has even decided she doesn't like my mum in law to be because she sees mygrandchildren a little more than her. She does self sabotage and then blames this or that or the other, so on
and so forth. I will definitely be mentioning the bereavement counselling again because talking therapy was
fantastic for myself. She is very fit so could visit her great grand kids any time. My daughter has suggested
many times that she will pick her up from the station, an hours train journey that's all. She wants my daughter
to go to her so she doesn't have to bother, but she works and has her own commitments too. She has nevergone to visit my other daughter who is only a short bus ride away, she wants me to take her and pick her up. I
think when she met dad all she wanted was children, but didn't bargain on how difficult that would be for her.
Her expectations of some perfect nuclear family gradually fell apart with divorce, violent partner, grandchildren
taking drugs, all which she so desperately tries to hide. Then the icing on the cake was my own dad's alcohol
problem which I only found out about when he nearly died, then she pretended she had no idea and it was his
arthritis meds
she genuinely thinks she has been the perfect parent, perfect wife, hardest worker. It has
taken many years for myself to stop been miss indispensable, to find a sense of self that was not dependent on
her family values. The road was very rocky as there was no guidance, just criticism, but eventually I got there,
worked out who I was, what I needed to be happy. I want that for her too
thank you again

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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
StarCravingAstrologer
Member« Reply #14 - on: 17.09.2014 at 19:44 [UT+1] »My single take:Saturn at the midheaven of the above chart - status and solidity was attached to the mate. She found presenceof character in him. She is worrisome and feeling worthless now.
Get her to do stuff that she got status for on her own. If it was home-making parenting/managing finances,managing people/making money/arts or crafts/writing stories.....whatever - find the saturn place in her chartand her grief will turn into satisfaction and security.
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best wishes.
(because this is a noon chart - i respond to the question based on the chart posted. It could be way off but
probably not)this is where Uranus always gets into trouble around here.

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scorpiogal

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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #15 - on: 17.09.2014 at 21:10 [UT+1] »Thank you. She was very good at crafts and art when younger and I feel she would get a sense of worth doingthat again. She has a real flair for style and colour too. She should have been a designer of some sort. How shelost it I dont know
I have suggested classes to get in touch with her arty side but she is very competitiveand if she isnt the best then she is rubbish. Recently ditched this mode of thinking myself
think on how to deal with this and try and suggest things. Thank you

I will have to

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Linda Harris
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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #16 - on: 18.09.2014 at 00:42 [UT+1] »Scorpiogal,
I'm afraid you are going to have to participate in the philosophy of "tough love."

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You must put yourself and your new relationship First....if you don't you will end up being a victim because
you seem to have a bit of a guilt issue....and there's nothing deadlier than guilt.
All you can do is give her friendly advice and whatever hours per week or month you have to offer.
You can't help the "words" she will use that you assume will make you feel bad. She will be who she is and you
can't change that.
What you CAN change is your reception to her words....you can control YOUR side of the see-saw.
Don't get involved in a verbal tug of war with her. Let her say what she has to say.....and leave it there. Don't
think there is ANYthing you can DO to make her "happy" again. That road is dangerous.
There is a wonderful book "The Dance of Intimacy" by Harriet Lerner.
Check it out.... it will open your eyes.
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scorpiogal

Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?

Member« Reply #17 - on: 18.09.2014 at 12:31 [UT+1] »Thank you Linda. I know I have nothing to be guilty for as myself and partner took care of her and dad when
he was so ill, my brothers did not. I cannot replace dad and feel that is what she wants on some level. All I will
do is gently nudge the counselling in her direction every so often, ring to see how she is and visit when able.
Maybe my reasons are selfish because if she is well then she stops aiming her darts at me
I have my family
and a new husband soon, she can be part of that if she chooses and if not, then I have done my best

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Nikki.
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Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?
« Reply #18 - on: 18.09.2014 at 13:13 [UT+1] »Perhaps it's worth looking at this a different way, perhaps you need to get to a point that the darts don't hurt
and miss their target.

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Gender:Your mother has to be ready to take up the opportunities, and their is nothing you can do but support her (butnot enable her). She can only find happiness if show wants to, just make sure that you wanting her to findhappiness is not tied up to your happiness....I.e. Make sure that your happiness is not dependant on hers. Yourmother shouldn't be a reflection of you, you might have shed issues but doesn't mean she wants to.
I hope your mom realises the gift she has in you before it's too late

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scorpiogal

Re: Stuck in grief what would point to this?

Member« Reply #19 - on: 18.09.2014 at 18:36 [UT+1] »Thank you Nikki, so do I
Any way I have a wedding to plan and I hope she wants to be there but if not I
have my lovely family aroundPosts: 6659
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