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Does saturn rules Aquarius? (Read 561 times)

himalayas
Ex Member

Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« on: 12.12.2007 at 00:03 [UT] »I've heard in the horary Saturn rules k. Is the same true for the chart intepretation? Or would the only ruler ofk be O?
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ether worm

Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #1 - on: 12.12.2007 at 00:23 [UT] »you'll be more likely to get a good answer to that if you ask it in the horary forum

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mountain
Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #2 - on: 12.12.2007 at 00:26 [UT] »Hey, fellow mountainous person!
Saturn is the traditional ruler of Aquarius, the one used for natal chart interpretation prior to the discovery of
Uranus (1781??) Today many astrologers assign Aquarius to Uranus, some stick with Saturn (notably in the
Vedic tradition) and some would consider G and O as co-rulers to k.
Aquarians can often seem very Saturnine, esp. if they have C,D, or other personal planets in neighbouring j.
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himalayas

Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #3 - on: 12.12.2007 at 01:55 [UT] »Does G work better as k ruler in your experience?
ether worm, I was asking whether G as a k ruler is still used specifically in the interpretation of the
progressions and transits charts. Do you take only O in the consideration in this case? this question wasn't
related to the horary. I am sure horary ppl would recommend to ask it here. So here I am asking...
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DaimonEx Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #4 - on: 12.12.2007 at 02:01 [UT] »after all aquarius is a fixed sign and G seems to support thisBack to top
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firemanEx Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #5 - on: 12.12.2007 at 02:10 [UT] »To be honest, when I look at a chart, I use both Saturn and Uranus to see if one intertrepation is giving me an
insight that the other one did not.
There is often discussion on this Forum about which is better, the more Ancient System, or modern Astrology.
I personally don't feel that one is better than the other, because I like to look at the chart from multiple
viewpoints, to get as richly-layered meanings and symbols and metaphors as I can, before I use my intuition to
guide me as to which one(s) are more appropriate for the situation at hand.
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himalayas
Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #6 - on: 12.12.2007 at 02:24 [UT] »Do G and O then have similar nature?
Or some signs are more dual than others such as Pisces?
Where do you start when you look at the chart, fireman?

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firemanEx Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #7 - on: 12.12.2007 at 03:04 [UT] »Quote from himalayas on 12.12.2007 at 02:24 [UT]:

G

O

Do
and
then have similar nature?
Or some signs are more dual than others such as Pisces?
Where do you start when you look at the chart, fireman?

That's a complicated question that I can't answer in a single post here, though I'll try to give some pointers.
In the Ancient system, Houses were more important than Planets, and with the exception of the Luminaries(Sun and Moon), every other visible planet ruled two houses, in a very symmetrical design that corresponded to
the Gnostic Tree of Life, like this:If you drew an axis from 5th house cusp to 11th, and then noted the rulers of each house as you circled up
from both sides of the 5th Cusp, you would get:5th -- Luminary (Sun)
4th -- Luminary (Moon)
6th and 3rd -- Mercury (next closest planet) up one house on the right, up one on the left
7th and 2nd -- Venus (next closest planet) up one house on the right, up one on the left
8th and 1st -- Mars (next closest planet) up one house on the right, up one on the left
9th and 12th -- Jupiter (next closest planet) up one house on the right, up one on the left
10th and 11th -- Saturn (next closest planet) up one house on the right, up one on the left, closing the loop.
It's obviously uncannily symmetrical. Because the mythologies of these ancient Deities were so richly-layered
with meanings, it wasn't really felt to be that difficult to choose the layer of meaning of that planet that
corresponded with the meaning of the House itself. And of course, later on to the signs when Rulership ofSigns started to become important -- in this case we're talking about 11th and Aquarius.
There is a mythological relationship in the mythologies of Saturn and Uranus, above and beyond the fact that
Saturn was Uranus' son. Uranus, the Sky-God, was repelled by his creations (his children), and banished themto Tartarus. Saturn was the leader of the Titans (a group of Uranus' children) who rebelled against thebanishment and overcame his Father (with Maia's help, his mother), by cutting off Uranus' genitals andthrowing them in the sea -- Venus/Aphrodite was born from the foam. So, Uranus mythology has associatedwith it the idea of being cut off from creative expression (allowing your children to manifest and live on Earth),and living only in the realm of the Sky (ideation, conceiving of ideas, but not always wanting to make them
manifest).
Saturn too was cut off from his children, and fearful of them when he heard the prophecy that he would be
succeeded by one of his children. He swallowed all his newborn children as a result, until his wife Rhea
substituted a stone for the 6th, Zeus/Jupiter, who grew up in a cave. After Zeus was full-grown, he cut Saturnopen with a scythe Rhea had given him and released his siblings, who then waged war together against Uranus
with the help of the Titans (whom Zeus later re-banished to Tartarus).
So, there IS a relationship and similarity between Saturn and Uranus, though Saturn was driven by fear of
losing his power (Capricornian), whereas Uranus was driven by shame of his creations not living up to his
extremely high ideals (ideation, cut off from the manifest "beauty" of Venus).
Because rulership of signs came much later, I sometimes choose to view Saturn as the Ruler of the 11th as in
the old system, and Uranus as Ruler of Aquarius (the more "pure" Uranus who created all of the social world via
his creations). The more "pure" Uranus, can sometimes be better understood through the mythology ofPrometheus, the benefactor of Mankind who defied Jupiter/Zeus to give mankind fire, and who was as a result
forever condemned to eternal torment by having his liver eaten away by an eagle every night.
I myself don't have a pure "system" to pick and choose which myth or rulership is more appropriate, because I
simply don't view Astrology as being mechanical. For me, it evokes deeply-layered meanings through the richmythologies associated with all the metaphors, so I find it to be much more of a meditative Art, than I do ascientific calculus.
There are plenty of debates on this Forum about Ancient vs. Modern, literal interpretations vs. symbolic ones,
etc. If you can get both Mountain and Kortsy in on this thread, then sit back and enjoy the fireworks, 'cause it
sure will be entertaining!!!!
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mountain
Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #8 - on: 12.12.2007 at 05:45 [UT] »Himalayas, I would just like to second Fireman's recommendation of looking at both G and O for k--notably
if a Uranian connection just doesn't quite explain what is going on.
To add my 2c-worth to his detailed and thoughtful analysis:
Saturn has been considered to be a "cold" planet. During the past few thousand years, the sun has been in
Capricorn and Aquarius during the winter months. In an "as above, so below" metaphysics, both j and k are"cold" months, thus ruled by Saturn. In Fireman's apt description of traditional rulerships, above, the schema
starts with Cancer-B and Leo-A, the "hot" months.
February Saturn-like? Maybe.

Does this make people born in late Dec. through late

The other thing I tried to suggest above, is that Mercury and Venus never stray too far from the sun.
Aquarians therefore often have C or D as Capricorn placements, which could be strengthened by additional
planets with Saturnine overtones--such as the moon, Mars, or whatnot in Capricorn or in some other sign but
with a strong aspect to Saturn. Many Aquarians born in the 1940s, and then again in the 1970s, for example,
would have their sun, Mercury, or Venus opposite Saturn as it transited through Leo.
Also Vedic astrology doesn't even use planets beyond Saturn.
I think there are a few additional G-O correspondences. Neither planet is loaded with warm fuzzy feelings.
Both planets can indicate individuals who are loners--sometimes relating well to more impersonal groups suchas organizations. Both planets in their own way are after some version of truth in human affairs: Saturn as the
Lord of Karma; Uranus as the rebel against meaningless rules imposed without concern for human rights.
OK, then if you really want to get into other corners of astrology, you might consider the dwad system(originally from Hindu astrology), in which each sign is divided by 12 into sectors of 2.5 degrees. Each dwad
corresponds to a zodiacal sign, where 0 to 2.5 degrees starts with the sign in question. Accordingly, anyone
with an k placement at 27.5 degrees to just before 0 degreesl would be in the j dwad, which should makesomeone with the sun in, say, k 28 degrees rather more Saturnine.
Also, if you use a house system other than the traditional equal house system, Aquarian planets may well sit ina house where Capricorn is on the cusp, thus potentially making Saturn the house ruler for Aquarian planets. In
your own chart using the Placidus system, for example, you might see the sign of Capricorn sitting on the cuspof the house in which the sign of Aquarius begins.
The other signs with dual rulerships in western astrology in the modern era are Pisces (F &I) and Scorpio (Eand J).
Hope this helps. mountainp. s. Kortsy, Viktor-- our court historians, we need you!
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NativeCaliGirl

Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #9 - on: 12.12.2007 at 06:08 [UT] »Wow! That's all I wanted to say. Mountain & Fireman... U guys rock! I'm so amazed by your knowledge. Sorryfor not having any input on the topic, I just had to say that.

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Cranberry
Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #10 - on: 12.12.2007 at 07:01 [UT] »Hi Himalayas...great question!
I use the concept of day rulers and night rulers.....dependent of course, upon the time of the natal birth. Thereis still a lot of controversy out there as to rulerships of some signs......modern vs. ancient...so I am notrecommending anyone else to choose this method.
Some modern authorities uses this concept of "night rulerships" to find room for the additional dignities as
planets beyond Saturn were found...namely Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.
Uranus was designated the day ruler of Aquarius while Saturn was to be its night ruler. Similarly, Neptune was
Posts: 2516

the day ruler of Pisces, leaving Jupiter as the night ruler, and Pluto was the day ruler of Scorpio with Mars as thenight ruler.

Gender:

The use of dual rulerships was/is also known as "co-rulership". Some astrologers believe that the new co-rulers
are actually the primary rulers of the signs with which they are associated and may be the sole rulers of thosesigns, and if that is the case, two other planets, one linked to Libra or Taurus, and the other to Virgo or Gemini,
may await discovery, eliminating the need for dual rulership of a sign altogether.
Until that time...(if it occurs)....I use the time of birth to designate which planet has primary rulership overAquarius, Pisces and Scorpio. I've found over time both rulerships do kick in....but, the ruler designated by thebirth time is more dominant and displays its characteristics much more prominently in their life. Others would
have to say how they have seen it play out.
Using myself as an example....Saturn is the ruler of Aquarius....as I am a "night birth".
Most people believe I am very Uranian because I am very tech oriented, have had a pilots license for years andnever had a fear of learning to fly a plane....that kind of thing...etc. The actual fact is.....I use every device inthe modern world of technological advanments because the Saturn in me knows its far more efficent, far moreaccurate and I dont have to spend time doing things the "long way"....Uranus kicks in and allows me to be
comfortable with technology. But count on it.....nothings in my world gets done without Saturns strict
grounding of either learning the new and first doing the homework of Saturn. I'm not interested in being thepioneer that Uranus suggests.....but I am very "attached" to using what others discover for my own lifes
enhancement. The actual placement of Uranus in my chart.....the house its in is where I am very
individualistic.....but not in its rulership of Aquarius..........again others would have to say how it works forthem and those they know.

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mountain

Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #11 - on: 13.12.2007 at 00:01 [UT] »Hey, thanks, JFB!
And great point, Cranberry. I've not used day/night rulers & would love to hear more from anyone who has
found them helpful.
I have ankA with a night-birth, but then I have enough other Saturn/j stuff going on in my chart (didanyone mention the final "depositer" or "mutual receptivity" concept here yet?) that I think sometimes a chartreading can reach a point where either repetitive patterns emerge, or else where the person is probably a blendof G/O energies.
Cheers, mountain
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CranberryMember

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #12 - on: 13.12.2007 at 00:56 [UT] »Hi Mountain...
I get where your coming from...but to me, the actual ruler of Aquarius is designated by the time of birth, andagain, let me reiterate.....I'm not asking others to think like me regarding night rulerships!
BUT....your very right I think...
Mutual receptions of Saturn and Uranus would defo affect the effect that both planets played in a natal chart
and would certainly strongly influence the house the sign of Aquarius occupies....(in my opinion, be it by planet
placement of mutual receptions, conjuctions, declination or antiscion.) But the rulership would be belong toeither the day or night ruler.
Posts: 2516
Gender:Good seeing you!
Cran

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jackdaw

Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #13 - on: 13.12.2007 at 10:27 [UT] »I feel both Saturn and Uranus.

Ak night birth, but AmEmG - so G strong in own sign but in direct contact (0deg30secs) with Sun/Marscazimi so very closely identified with that energy.
When I was younger I had a lot of Saturn issues and projected them outwards.
My O11th mJ is involved in yods and connects to my NN, it is also at the top of my chart so O is strong too.
I was expressing it without knowing what it was all my life.
Hard to tear these apart because of their positions and patterning. Saturn is like my immediate up front
feeling I can feel it all the time. Uranus is always there and I'm not consciously in touch with the energy, but
express it all the time. I have 4 planets in k.
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Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
InstabilityPersonalized
Ex Member« Reply #14 - on: 13.12.2007 at 10:47 [UT] »Quote from fireman on 12.12.2007 at 02:10 [UT]:
To be honest, when I look at a chart, I use both Saturn and Uranus to see if one intertrepation is giving me an insight that the other one
did not.
There is often discussion on this Forum about which is better, the more Ancient System, or modern Astrology. I personally don't feel that
one is better than the other, because I like to look at the chart from multiple viewpoints, to get as richly-layered meanings and symbols
and metaphors as I can, before I use my intuition to guide me as to which one(s) are more appropriate for the situation at hand.

I support your theory...
It seems more wise to see astrology not as too mechanical
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Danea Mobley-Krist

Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #15 - on: 15.12.2007 at 19:59 [UT] »I believe esoterically Saturn rules Capricorn & Aquarius but I never understood the correlation between
Aquarius & Saturn. I just dont see it. Maybe Saturns Aquarius rulership comes from vedic astrology since theyignore Uranus Neptune & Pluto.

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Kortsy
Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #16 - on: 15.12.2007 at 21:54 [UT] »Quote:
I believe esoterically Saturn rules Capricorn & Aquarius but I never understood the correlation between Aquarius & Saturn. I just dont seeit.

Here is a link for you. Everyone - please read the article! And take a long hard look at the diagram.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/rulership.html...................................................................
Ok, you’ve all read it? As you can see, the ancients didn’t sit around saying Mars is like Aries, therefore Mars
should rule Aries, etc. They came up with a philosophical pattern, a structure, so to speak. The Sun and Moon
are pure Diurnal and Nocturnal, so they each get one house, or domicile rulership. Mercury, known as being
both masculine and feminine, is placed next to the two lights. Then come the rest of the planets in order basedon length of orbit. It’s important to remember that ‘house’ formerly meant ‘sign’. There is no connection withthe twelve mundane houses of the chart.
Notice how the aspects and their meanings are also related to the sign rulerships. The Sun and Moon areopposed by Saturn, the planet farthest out. The opposition was always the worst aspect, much more than now
when we like to talk of balance and compromise. It’s fitting that the most ‘malefic’ aspect is linked with thehouses of Saturn – the Greater Malefic. See how Mars, the Lesser Malefic is linked to the square aspect – theless malefic aspect. The Lesser and Greater Benefics are linked to the sextile and trine. Jupiter and trines – whata fit! Who would contest it?
Now compare this to sitting around in a pub debating that a certain planet, asteroid or whatever rules a certain
sign because they are similar. Out of the blue we get Chiron ruling Virgo. The reactions are always ‘Why not?’‘Times change.’ ‘There are different ways of doing things.’, etc. But look at how closely-based your astrology stillis to the old pattern and scheme of things. For nearly everyone the aspects still have the meanings ofVenus/sextile, Mars/square, Jupiter/trine, and Saturn/opposition. Few of you will want to drop Mars from rulingAries, Venus from ruling Taurus, Mercury from Gemini, Moon from Cancer, Sun from Leo.....
You see, you have accepted most of the system you were taught and probably wouldn’t want to change that.
So if most of the system is considered valid and the norm for modern astrology, isn’t that a strong hint thatthe three common rulership changes for Scorpio, Aquarius and Pisces were a wrong turn? This apparently
arbitrary and artificial scheme is the astrology you are using! Why are you staying with the rest of the systemonce you’ve already started to destroy it?
Well, you didn't know where it all came from and the reasoning
behind it. There's a good chance that the people who taught you also didn't know. This is why we need to go
back and thoroughly investigate the old literature.
Sure, we can say that Pluto is like Scorpio, Neptune is like Pisces, Uranus is like Aquarius. The first two pairings
especially are very similar (Uranus and Aquarius seems like a stretch). There’s nothing wrong with saying that
their principles are related. But rulership?
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firemanEx Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #17 - on: 15.12.2007 at 22:42 [UT] »Thanks for this, Kortsy!! I love your posts, btw, and as result of reading them, have already ordered somebooks I otherwise would not have, in order to learn more about Ancient Astrology.
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chatcat
Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #18 - on: 16.12.2007 at 02:44 [UT] »Quote from himalayas on 12.12.2007 at 00:03 [UT]:
I've heard in the horary Saturn rules

k. Is the same true for the chart intepretation? Or would the only ruler of k be O?

My take is that Uranus rules Aquarius as the planet of shock, surprise, upsetting the status quo and Saturn is co
Posts: 1967
Gender:ruler althought it seems contradicatory. But that is Aquarius for you.

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chatcat

Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #19 - on: 16.12.2007 at 02:52 [UT] »Quote from mountain on 12.12.2007 at 00:26 [UT]:Hey, fellow mountainous person!
Saturn is the traditional ruler of Aquarius, the one used for natal chart interpretation prior to the discovery of Uranus (1781??) Today many
astrologers assign Aquarius to Uranus, some stick with Saturn (notably in the Vedic tradition) and some would consider

Posts: 1967
Gender:rulers tok.

Aquarians can often seem very Saturnine, esp. if they have

Very true.

C,D, or other personal planets in neighbouring j.

G and O as co-Back to top

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cris_meMember

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #20 - on: 16.12.2007 at 17:39 [UT] »what difference would it really make?

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viele

Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #21 - on: 16.12.2007 at 18:26 [UT] »I think Saturn co-rules Aquarius...especially so if the person has a Capricorn sun, moon, or rising, or if they
have a prominent Saturn in their chart, then they take on the more Saturnine qualities of Aquarius.
A personal example: someone I knew very well was a Capricorn with Aquarius rising, and aquarius mercury.
Posts: 724
Gender:Yes, uranus is just as significant in his chart, but I think Saturn was esp. important in his chart because it rules
his sun.
Saturn does appear to be in contradiction with Aquarius's nature, at first. But then you realize that Aquarians
can often be contradictory with their uranium themes. They may abhor restriction but make a certain set ofrules for themselves (saturn)... then they break and rebel against all of their rules (uranus), only to create awhole new set of rules for themselves.
I wouldn't assume this is true for all Aquarians.. mainly the ones that already have capricorn/saturn themes intheir chart.
Now my question is, why is aquarius a fixed sign?

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KortsyEx Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #22 - on: 16.12.2007 at 18:58 [UT] »Quote:
Now my question is, why is aquarius a fixed sign?

The Cardinal signs initiate the new season. The Fixed signs establish and ‘solidify’ the season. The Mutable signs
mark the passage from one season to the next.
Fixed Aquarius follows Cardinal Capricorn, which began with the winter solstice. The tropical zodiac remains
linked to the seasons. The sidereal zodiac has broken away.
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viele

Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #23 - on: 17.12.2007 at 00:49 [UT] »I was more curious as to how Aquarius taxes on 'fixed' traits.. I really don't see Aquarius as having a fixednature, esp. because they are a 'progressive' sign

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firemanEx Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #24 - on: 17.12.2007 at 01:02 [UT] »Quote from vierge feroce on 17.12.2007 at 00:49 [UT]:
I was more curious as to how Aquarius taxes on 'fixed' traits.. I really don't see Aquarius as having a fixed nature, esp. because they are
a 'progressive' sign

I suspect that you're equating "Fixed" with intransigence, like a kind of stubborn earthy quality, like Taurus.
To me, "fixed" is more about tying the essence of the element in question to selfhood. Cardinal through action,
fixed through selfhood, mutable through communication/mind. Aquarius is Fixed, in the sense that aquarians
express air through sense of self -- they are different, original, don't fit the mold, march to the beat of adifferent drummer, because the Air Element gives them the ability to think and therefore BE different. Just as
Leo expresses fire through sense of self, same with Taurus for its element, and Scorpio with water. The
Cardinals are more action-oriented, the Mutables more mental-oriented.

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viele

Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #25 - on: 17.12.2007 at 03:11 [UT] »Thanks fireman

enlightening post!

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Ed Falis
Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #26 - on: 17.12.2007 at 03:11 [UT] »Aquarius can be quite ideological, in my experience.

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KortsyEx Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #27 - on: 17.12.2007 at 04:01 [UT] »Quote:
I really don't see Aquarius as having a fixed nature, esp. because they are a 'progressive' sign

I wrote that the fixed signs ‘establish and solidify’ the season. Air signs are geared toward intellectual pursuits,
spoken and written communication, and social contacts. So Aquarius ‘establishes and solidifies intellectual
pursuits, spoken and written communication, and social contacts’. Gemini is great at gathering information.
Aquarius excels at making that information a body of knowledge. It establishes procedures, standards and abody or canon of written works for the study of history, archeology, or any academic area. This is Aquarius‘fixing’ in the realm of Air. You can perhaps detect Saturn in those accepted conventions of procedure andstandards. Those with a big dose of Aquarius have often been said to have a conservative streak and a strong
appreciation of high cultural standards. The conservative streak (as in ‘holding on tight’) comes from theallegiance to a firmly held idea – a ‘fixed’ idea. Or better yet, many ideas that come together to make a‘system’ of thought, like capitalism, socialism, etc.
Air signs are socially inclined, so political science and the governing of a society are the territory of Aquarius.
Aquarius is very interested in systems (a very Aquarian word) of governance, social control and civic structure –bringing individuals together. An anarchist with a strong Aquarian element in his chart would be an example of
Aquarius gone terribly wrong. It takes a strong Saturn influence to unite disparate elements into a smoothly
running whole, and Aquarius appreciates a system that runs well.
How did they ever come up with that Uranus rulership idea?
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SeaGoat72
Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #28 - on: 17.12.2007 at 07:15 [UT] »To introduce the concept of control beyond the personal level (individuality remaining free, without Saturnian
limitation)

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mountain

Ex Member

Re: Does saturn rules Aquarius?
« Reply #29 - on: 17.12.2007 at 23:28 [UT] »Kortsy, I think the link between Uranus and Aquarius has something to do with all of the intellectual andpolitical foment in Europe and the U. S. (and est. of Australia--thanks, Alice!) that were afoot during the time
Uranus was discovered in 1781 --i. e, the Enlightenment. If Capricorn symbolizes traditional authority figures,and thus government officials as they were understood in Europe that that time, then ca. 1781, a newly
discovered planet could be quickly linked to the new political and philosophical ideals. I think this explanation
is at least consistent with your statement that Aquarius relates to "fixed thought"--wasn't it also about thistime that Linnaeus developed his system of classifying plants and animals?
Vierge, re: k as a fixed sign--it reminds me of the old saying, "There is no one so conservative as an oldliberal." Having adopted radical ideas once, Aquarian-type personalities may be loathe to change their minds
about what they regard as the truth.
Cheers, mountain
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