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Friendship (Read 323 times)

VivishaEx MemberFriendship« on: 26.02.2009 at 16:38 [UT] »Quote:
Friendship has been given a special status in our society. It is contrasted with all those relationships over which we have so little control;
the families we can't change, the neighbours who irritate us, the colleagues we have to put up with. Friends are thought of as the joyous,
freely chosen part of our lives, and it's assumed that those relationships are always pleasurable. If asked how you're spending theweekend and you say staying in or seeing your family or your colleagues, people may think you're a little sad. Say you're seeing friends
and there's an assumption that you too are desirable, connected.
On one level, friendships are very simple. They are the bonds between people who enjoy one another's company. But probe deeper and it's
evident that there is no consensus about what it means. Start talking to people about friendship and it becomes clear that while people
value it and seek it, there is also much confusion, hesitancy and disappointment about friends in many people's lives. Friendship is one ofthose areas full of hidden assumptions and unspoken rules...............
Ask people about friendship and what's startling is that they hold such a wide range of views, often accompanied by an absolute convictionthat they are expressing an obvious truth.....

In the above quote i can see the language of the 11th house with words such as values, hopes,
disappointments, the freedom to choose, the lack of clearly laid out rules and the joy friendship attracts thatcomes from the polarised fifth house.
The full article is a 'must read' and was a bit of an eye opener in some respects for me. Possibly because i havechiron in Aries in the eleventh with mars in 9th in k.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2005/jan/24/features11.g2
I'd be interested in your thoughts/stories/ feedback about this article. Please primarily relate this back to your
11th house even if you take a reflective amble around the rest of your natal.
Vivisha x
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Lissa

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Re: Friendship« Reply #1 - on: 26.02.2009 at 16:58 [UT] »My 11th house is ruled by h,it's traditional ruler E being in c in the 6th and it's modern ruler in it's own sign
sitting in the tail end of the 10th.My friendships used to be very cinian-lots of acquaintances,people usually
liked me.Now I've evolved to more Jnian relationships-I have a small circle of friends but they are loyal people
who I care about deeply and who really care about me.
Friends are...well,friends.To me,friends aren't the people with whom you laugh and play around a little but
really couldn't care less if you live or die,if you're happy or sad.Real friends may not be the ones who make you
laugh harder,but they're the ones who cry with you and catch you when you fall.

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Jeanette
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Re: Friendship« Reply #2 - on: 26.02.2009 at 17:49 [UT] »Hi Vivisha

E 11th house b; EnIh 5th. E is right at the beginning of 11th which is otherwise empty. I am very
impatient (E) when it comes to the whole notion of having to work at making friends - whenever I think aboutthat I just start feeling hostile and irritated (E). Whenever I do find that someone has become a "friend" - I
think they will always be a friend because they have changed me and become a part of me (they have helped
me build myself b). I like to think of a "friend" as a mystery that just magically shows up in our lives to teach
us what we need to know...has to be completely spontaneous otherwise forget-it. I can find lots of joy in beinga hermit, in aloneness Ih5th.
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rookishMember

Re: Friendship« Reply #3 - on: 26.02.2009 at 21:39 [UT] »11th f, containing OmJ n Nl qK (so there is something related to growth going on)
ruler C k 4th m IC

C O mutual reception by sign, O in own house, CDO yod.
I'm like a serial friend. I move home a lot and change my friends at those times. I tend to have friendshipsthat arise suddenly and immediately on meeting (O) are very analytical (f), based on communication/talking(C) and probing (J) about personal deep issues (generally the other persons) that are resolved or released
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during the course of our relationship (N). So, there is some element of transformation (J) intuition (O) andthen when I leave I happily leave without looking back (O, J), when I keep contact it is usually electronic,
news update etc - there is a distance.

I learn a lot but don't need to stay close (11th, O, k).

When I do have emotional relationships that are longer lasting they relate to positions in late fgo in 11th
opposing my Moon, but they aren't usual.
That yod shows my struggle to balance home, work, friends which I generally try to do by keeping thementirely separate.
When I look at composites for my deeper friendships (not many) they have a f overtone and 7th Sun forpartnership and Moon in relationship with IC or Jupiter.
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Ex Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #4 - on: 27.02.2009 at 00:23 [UT] »Hi Lissa
Quote:
Friends are...well,friends.To me,friends aren't the people with whom you laugh and play around a little but really couldn't care less if youlive or die,if you're happy or sad.Real friends may not be the ones who make you laugh harder,but they're the ones who cry with you andcatch you when you fall.

yes i can hear the scorpio intensity here. The extremes of the terms 'live or die' being both plutonian andmartian. For you friendship has to have depth and meaning?
You say "Friends are...well,friends."
yes the problem is friends are universal relationships with no clear universal definition (the k underbelly of
the 11th house). With scorpio colouring what is in some respects is an impersonal house the issue offriendships becomes for you profoundly personal. The house of air, of space and of communication becomes ahouse of water; intimacy, emotional exchange. In this instance the flavour of the archetypal eighth house signof scorpio spices you're 11th. The fact that you have identified a small intimate group of loyal friends reflects
this as the 11th is also the house of collective groups to which we choose to belong as opposed to those which
we have been born into (4th family).
What have been the most challenging friendships you have had? How did you manage them? One friend ofmine referred to me as 'the assassin' as she said every so often i would cut a friendship down without abackward glance. I didn't relate to this at all. I have never ended a friendship without good reason, a lot ofthought and a consideration of the impact it would have on the other. However once i decided it was over thenit was. No going back. I think it was that specifically she was referring to and of course she didnt observe theinternal wrestling that occurred up to that point or necessarily know the reasons i ended the friendship. I don'tback stab. (Na 11th).
Hi Jeanette
Quote:I am very impatient (E) when it comes to the whole notion of having to work at making friends - whenever I think about that I just startE)feeling hostile and irritated (that really made me laugh out loudI think i relate to that statement though i never recognised consciouslythat i feel this way until now. I can't stand the beginnings of friendship. I can feel incredibly awkward when
meeting others for the first time. This will be completely internalised . I put this down to my saturn conjunctasc which i have to get past ( and they have to have the insight, awareness, interest and patience to get past).
So for me i don't think my irritation is down to impatience but more that my sun leo wants to connect but mysaturn will limit my ablility to respond until i feel there is some kind of firm foundation in place. This process
generally speeds up if i feel some affinity mentally (ruler mars in aquarius 9th) with someone.
Quote:
I like to think of a "friend" as a mystery that just magically shows up in our lives to teach us what we need to know...has to becompletely spontaneous otherwise forget-it.

I have on a few occasions experienced platonic love at first sight, where there is a clear meeting of minds. I put
this down to ruler mars trine uranus in the fifth. Play. laughter and fun form a huge part of my friendships ( ihave exciteable uranus in the fifth in libra) but again usually comes after more serious talks of random life
experiences and the universe. i think i like to get to know people from the inside out as opposed to the outside
in. Consequently i find frivolous friendships entertaining but ultimately unsatisfying. I just don't do small talk. iplace that in the first house of initial meetings and so inevitabley my saturn cools off at this. One friend ofmine enjoys watching me attempt to manage and engage politely when the inevitable chit chat/ small talkscenario occurs. Its painful but then she has sun in aries in the eighth so she has a sadistic streak
Quote:
Whenever I do find that someone has become a "friend" - I think they will always be a friend because they have changed me and becomea part of me (they have helped me build myself )So friends are a kind of resource for you? Im thinking this as taurus achetypally rules the second of resources.
They have to have a strong practical function in your life? With the fixed nature of taurus i can see how friends
for you are a permanent fixture. Friendship is a solid commitment?
Rookish also thanks for your response i will read through again and get back to you tomorrow... nope looking
at the clock that will be later today
In the meantime in thinking about the subject of friendship i thought i'd throw another question out there to
add to the above ( sparked by Rookish's definition of herself as a 'serial friend'.
What kind of a friend are you?

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Ceto*

Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #5 - on: 27.02.2009 at 09:06 [UT] »Friends... I have always had a lot of friends mainly due to where I lived, grew up with people who where myfriends like living together, then at school different groups of friends, on holidays different groups of friends. I
have had too many friends, with all the different politics that that entails. When I was older I had different setsof friends at university from all different race groups so socially that was fun. Then my older friends felt I was
neglecting them so I had manage my time to ensure I spent time with all, sometimes when I mixed the groups
it would be a disaster and other times fun. My friends have always been my sustenance, I don't deliberately
hurt them and if they hurt me intentionally then I will make sure they know so that there is no falseness.

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The article is an eye opener for me as well and it is very sad. It has a lot to do with expectation, so basicallypeople are saying don't expect anything from me when you need help but don't leave me out when times are
good. "When you laugh the world laughs with you, when you weep you weep alone."
Because I am a bit intense my friends do confide in me and ask for help when I can give it, if I give and giveand get nothing in return then I have to question whether I am been used because I can be very blind topeoples faults and meanness still to this day shocks me I in i in the 11th n E in the 5th. So I can be easily
deceived and live on happy friend planet until a transit from Saturn. I also have Scorp BDK in the 11th.
When a friendship ends it does hurt and I try to ensure that all avenues to recovery have been tried out, I havetaken a break from some friendships for years and then it restarts and feels like just yesterday. I think that with
the intensity of Scorpio friendship is never superficial so restarting them is easy even if you have missed a few
years you bond intensely at the beginning and you know the heart of a person and that does not change much.

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rookishMember

Re: Friendship« Reply #6 - on: 27.02.2009 at 12:34 [UT] »I wanted to add - my Chiron is in Pisces - I can't rule out a sense of wanting to save them in some way anyhow it does seem to relate to suffering and healing. As N is on SO/MO midpoint and they are both QD
Pluto, there seems to be some kind of promise of integration of that healing energy to my own ego andemotions (ArB) issues through those friendships.
Also my Ih1st, Bl5th - I attract people very easily, they find it easy to talk to me with that emotional
dimension. I have to be really choosy or I get overwhelmed with being dragged into too many lives. Once I
have chosen, I will happily help and be there at the worst of times and talk and hold hands or pick up children
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or make dinner or mediate awkward conversations, but I can't have it around me 24/7. As their problems
disappear, I can leave without looking back. I learn from all these things, and I am open about my emotions
and feelings as well (CIC) I don't think I'm a vouyeur. I think that open-ness makes people feel close to me,
but it does not necessarily mean I feel emotionally close to them although perhaps more
sympathetically/empathically, just that I am aware that I can help somehow.
The one's that I feel really close too, I have a sense of wanting to merge with and be involved in their lives.
The one's I keep in my life have strong enough boundaries to enable me to maintain boundaries so we canhave a close emotional relationship without it being overwhelming - they are strong, the relationship doesn't
start with problems and issues. I know that they do value me and our friendship though when they do ring me
the first time when they want to deal with a problem and I know that there is trust there, and when I ring themfor the first time with an issue in me. So these are separate friend types to me. I don't usually havefriendships just born out of having fun - these aren't deep enough to me there seems to be some kind ofservice involved (f 11thD6th). I prefer 1-2-1 relationships and I cannot imagine putting all these friends into
one room together - they are too disparate and I rather like having them separated out.

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Pars Chaos

Ex Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #7 - on: 27.02.2009 at 13:11 [UT] »I have d on 11... so i'm emotionally attached to my friends and I like to care for them...
I have C in 11... friendships should have some use... you use me, I use you... my friends are very diverse, very
different
I have E in 11... more male then female friends... although, the female friends I have aren't really the girly
types... very active people, but sometimes trouble makers and they like to confront me with stuff I think isirrelevant

C Bq O is perhaps possible for attracting weirdo's in my friendships...
I'm a phase in my life I don't put a lot of emphasis on friendships... I've been betrayed a lot in the past, I'm
the one not to be friends with, I'm the one who doesn't socially fits in... and now I'm a bit fed up... I lostfriends due to untrue gossip and although it hurts at first, after a while I saw if they believe someone else, they
aren't worthy of my attention (or life (yes that's exaggerated, i'm may be a bit vindictive))
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IP LoggedLissaMember

Re: Friendship« Reply #8 - on: 27.02.2009 at 13:58 [UT] »Hi Vivisha,you are right...though it has been an evolution...as I said my friendships used to be very
Geminian,now they're very Jian like!I miss my carefree fun "friends" in a way but on the other hand I feel
more loved by the people who are now in my group of friends.I can honestly say I have something like 5friends maybe...the rest are acquaintances.And my J is pleased with that.
The worst "friendship" I had was with a hAB...she was soooo controlling and possessive,plus never admitted
she was wrong!We shared a close bond but it was so nerve-wrecking that she always had to be right,sometimes
I pretended to agree with her just to keep her quiet.Even my parents didn't like that girl,they saw her effects

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on me...must admit I miss her,she was very loyal to the people she loved but on another hand I couldn't standsomethings about her,so I guess I'm better off now...

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Mars_second

Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #9 - on: 27.02.2009 at 23:07 [UT] »On reading this thread and the related article, I thought about the difference between my adult friendships andchildhood ones. The main difference I found was that adult friendships are much more detached and lessdemanding than they were, on both sides, because of my approach to them. Virgo rules my 11th in equal by
one degree, the rest presided over by Libra. I find the association between siblings and friends similar, where
Mercury resides in my 3rd; I also found the majority of my formative friends in my own neighbourhood (3rd, as
most people would I expect).
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Gender:An early friendship I had was with cancerian. I found it nourishing, yet we grew apart in difficult ways as
teenagers. I think I took that lesson into adult life, where the level of attachment should be reconciled against
the give and take within the relationship. Needless to say, Pluto resides in my 11th, opposing venus in the 5th.
Manipulation plays a part within my friendships, but I am careful to distance myself within that, because of
Virgo's ruler Mercury in Aquarius in the 3rd. I am attracted to offbeat and exciting, eccentric people but thesearent' conducive to long lasting friendships; Pluto in the eleventh confers a need to be in control of friendships.
I feel I like to be in control of the friendships I have.
S_T

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Elizabeth 007
Ex Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #10 - on: 28.02.2009 at 02:24 [UT] »I have a very friendship-based chart with 11h in Libra -- with JCFG in it......
I havent had the best of luck when it comes to friendships in my earlier years-- think I've finally learned mylessons though in making good choices in choosing the right friends.
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Curiosa Nervosa

Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #11 - on: 01.03.2009 at 13:57 [UT] »I have E and F in 11th in a,How will that be effecting the person? I like ks a lot
could be related to friends?

Some say also the 5th

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ScaleSunEx Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #12 - on: 01.03.2009 at 20:47 [UT] »I have f on my 11th, it's empty other than the asteroid Palla oB. I'm not sure what it means...I don't reallywork a lot at platonic friendships, for me it has to flow naturally, grow organically. I do have a lot of mixed
feelings about all my friendships, even those I love there is still a distance I'm honest but never fuly revealed. I
get irritated by those who request friendship and intend more because then you're stuck, if you agree they takeit that you are open for it to grow, and if you refuse they call you out on assuming. I'm not assuming because
I've gotten into friendships like this and they end up being rather burdensome and demanding. I guess it
makes me critical of those in my friendship circle huh? That is a very small circle, not all "friends" are in it. I
usually have a therapeutic role with my friends, they come to me for advice, to feel better, vent, rely on my forplans...plus I always feel obligated, and sometime resent that.
I've always had lots of friends but tended to be a loner since I never followed anyone and didn't care enough tolead.
I like socializing outdoors, in nature, or even in the city but outdoor weather gives me a natural high andmakes me fun to be around.
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ScaleSun

Ex Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #13 - on: 01.03.2009 at 20:56 [UT] »Quote from Curiosa Nervosa on 01.03.2009 at 13:57 [UT]:
I haveE andF in 11th in a,How will that be effecting the person? I like ks a lot

Some say also the 5th could be related to friends?

5h could be related to friends since it rules recreation...maybe 'friends with benefits' fits here lol
What is the defining difference between 5th house engagements and 11th house, can anyone clarify that?
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Tauries
Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #14 - on: 06.03.2009 at 13:25 [UT] »Friendship is very interesting to me, always. I somehow don't seem to understand what it is.
My natal South Node is in k in the 11th.And most of the times all I can add to "friendship"-topics is that
I consider it unimportant and it is a kind of matter people make so much fuss about it.
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Gender:Friends come and go--I have my friends I love, but my man or my family have always had the first place andalways will, and whenever they are not available, I am happy to spend time on my own at last.
Maybe it is because I am sure that true friendship is unselfish and I can go back to have it anytime, without
resentment??
I think I was done with it in my previous life!!(?)

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James SEx Member

Re: Friendship« Reply #15 - on: 08.03.2009 at 11:03 [UT] »When looking at frienships, it is also helpful to look at the 7th house.
Very close friendships are a certain type of relationship. This is governed by the 7th house of close personal
relationships.
I have libra on my 11th house cusp, with ruler venus in gemini in my 7th house...toward the end, and also invery close conjunction with chiron. Note: mercury is also there.
I will say, a lot of my close personal friendships, they all have either a strong mercury, chiron, and/of venus.
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