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Philosophy for Astrology (Read 837 times)

dr_dudeMember

Philosophy for Astrology« on: 09.04.2007 at 15:00 [UT+1] »As a spin off from the thread 'Something is seriously off here' -- i've suggested a thread which deals with someof the philosophical issues raised by astrology.
for those wondering about this, see my posts in the previously mentioned thread first...
I'll get the ball rolling by saying, many people will be asking, what's the point? what's the connection between
philosophy and astrology?
I'll put forward two suggestions for discussion and see where it goes:
Posts: 463
Gender:1 : that astrology challenges presuppositions about the way human beings understand their world and interpret
their experience. this is within the domain of philosophy
2: that philosophical resources can be employed to better understand two important factors within astrologicalpractice --- that of symbolic manipulation and that of interpretation.

Dru
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Pamela YoungEx Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #1 - on: 09.04.2007 at 15:26 [UT+1] »Sounds good, Dru; thanks for starting a new thread. Could you perhaps expand on one of your two topics? I
think I can fairly say I know a lot about astrology, but I know next to nothing about philosophy per se.

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late capricorn

Re: Philosophy for Astrology

sun« Reply #2 - on: 09.04.2007 at 15:28 [UT+1] »Ex Member

I think this is a great idea, Dru. I haven't fully read the previous thread yet, but followed much of it withinterest and plan to really read it through in its entirety soon.
I hope that nobody minds my occasional contribution here despite my lack of rigorous philosophical andscientific (and astrological, for that matter) training. I'm always fascinated by these topics and curious about
varying viewpoints, but just haven't had the chance to properly immerse myself. I'll do my best to keep up andnot get in the way!
I'm glad to see this level of inquiry is taking place here.

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Angelo Marano

Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #3 - on: 09.04.2007 at 16:28 [UT+1] »Personally, I am more interested in the "cosmology" side of astrology than the "mundane" side; i.e., the natureof the universe and man's place in it as opposed to, say, natal chart interpretation. I think this falls into thefirst of your suggested topics. The thing is, you can't go too far with one side without the other. As ideas andPosts: 192
Gender:concepts geet more and more abstract, you have to say, 'Wait, is this in line with earthly reality." Each side has
to prove the other to have validity. They both have to work. You need "science" as well as "religion," ang theyshouldn't be negating of each other.
In any event, astrology helps me to understand things, all sorts of things. And I feel that the better I canunderstand astrology, the better I can undertand a host of other things that seemingly have no relationship toastrology.

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IP LoggedChristopher
DakiadesEx Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #4 - on: 09.04.2007 at 16:51 [UT+1] »I agree with you Angelo that Science and "Spirituality" are heading in the same direction and perhaps should
not be mutually exclusive. But I would not use the word "religion" since I believe it to be dogmatic andpolitically based.
When I think about our current "Zeitgeist" ("time ghost", dominant collective views on various paradigms ofthought, "the prevailing view") I think about how when we reach a certain mass accretion level collectively,
there are major changes in our evolution and philosophical views. This is perhaps why astrology has taken on
negative connotations. It just doesn't fit in with our contemporary zeitgeist and "scientific" way of thinking,even though we here know it is a kind of science. It's been hanging around the fringes for centuries.
I hope that with the integration of science and spirituality we have greater luck.

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dr_dudeMember

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #5 - on: 09.04.2007 at 18:16 [UT+1] »Hi again ---i'm glad there's been so swift a response to this thread!
I suppose it makes sense to be clear about what i meant by the two suggested topics. the first is that being
interested in astrology, how it works and so on, raises many interesting philosophical problems. for instance,
what is the relationship between man and world like if one can interpret symbols that are derived from some
sort of 'natural' phenomena to give meaning to experience? or, how does the way in which we interpret ourexperience relate to the larger reality of which we are a part? both of these are firmly philosophical issues.
Posts: 463
Gender:the second topic was meant to suggest a line of inquiry into the 'mechanics' of astrology: are there better ways
to understand the traditions and techniques of astrology with the support of certain philosophical resources. inthe other thread where we were discussing this, i mentioned that the 'hermeneutical' tradition of philosophy isa great resource in this regard, because it deals with the same sorts of problems as astrologers must face inunderstanding what they do.
Dru

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Angelo Marano
Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #6 - on: 09.04.2007 at 18:18 [UT+1] »Quote from Christopher Dakiades on 09.04.2007 at 16:51 [UT+1]:
This is perhaps why astrology has taken on negative connotations. It just doesn't fit in with our contemporary zeitgeist and "scientific" wayof thinking, even though we here know it is a kind of science. It's been hanging around the fringes for centuries.

Posts: 192
Gender:It's on the fringes because most people look at or see only the exoteric side, the profane (in it's original
meaning of "outside the temple"), and mundane, rather than the esoteric, sacred and spiritual side. They see it
as a predictor of events and behavior of things and people they are interested in, and there are other predictors
which work as well or sometimes better, like science or the local bookie, and are seemingly easier tounderstand. It's been cursed with the general meaning of prediciting and foretelling the future, when really
what it is, at least to me, is a way of seeing and understanding.

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Bill Capricorn

Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #7 - on: 09.04.2007 at 19:20 [UT+1] »DruWhat about Sartre's existential argument? I learned it in high school. It was explained something along thelines of a there is a table, and you know it is because it has four legs and a top and you know what a table isused for. So essence precedes existence. Human beings are born first, existence is first, and any ideas about
ourselves follows that fact. We can be told about ourselves, like through religion, or through peer pressure, but
how do we really know ourselves for who we are? Since we can't, we have to create our life as authentically as
we can. Is it authentic to blindly follow what others say and believe, based on some books they've read or somecharismatic people? Isn't it better to create out of core values, in terms of philosophical truth?
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IP Loggeddr_dude
Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #8 - on: 09.04.2007 at 21:06 [UT+1] »Bill --interesting that you should bring up existentialism. i think in the crude form in which Sartre puts it, it's
unworkable with any kind of astrological theory. but there other forms of existentialism which are workable. thekind of philosophy i do is basically a development of existentialism and hermeneutics.
it goes something like this: the kind of anthropology you accept (in other words, the way you think about what
it means to be human) is inescapable in anything you do in any other kind of discipline, whether scientific,

Posts: 463
Gender:religion, artistic whatever. if you believe that the human person is basically a spiritual essence trapped in amaterial body then this will have certain kind of implications. likewise if you think that a human person is the
top end of a process of genetic mutations and that mind is reducible to brain, then this will also have certain
implications. i dispute both these kinds of anthropologies, since they leave a lot to be desired and have great
ethical dilemmas associated with them.
the anthropology i prefer, for the moment at least, is that human persons are situated subjectivity, but thissubjectivity is an embodied and active presence in the world. mind, spirit, geist and so on, is a part of thissubjectivity, but cannot be reduced to it, and needs to be interpreted. interpretation is a central part of what
human beings are.
it seems to me that astrology can work within such an anthropological framework. my interests at this point are
to work out the psychological implications of this anthropology and its understanding of mind and spirit....
[anyone whose read any Heidegger or Merleau-Ponty will recognise this anthropology as distinctively existentialhermeneutic]
i'll keep it short for now
Dru

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Bill Capricorn

Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #9 - on: 09.04.2007 at 21:44 [UT+1] »What is hermeneutics? I get terms like theology and explanation from the dictionary.
Why is Sartre's question crude? Is it because our existence does not begin at birth? What is birth?
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dr_dudeMember

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #10 - on: 09.04.2007 at 22:42 [UT+1] »Hi again --hermeneutics is the study of interpretation, but the existentialist basis for it is that what human beings are isinterpreting beings (that comes from Heidegger)
i wasn't saying that what you posted on Sartre was crude, only the way in which he formulates existentialism asa philosophy. Merleau-Ponty (who was a good friend of Sartre's initially, but then they fell out) is much more
subtle...

Posts: 463
Gender:existence precedes essence, because for human beings our existence is our essence is the gist of what yourremarks on Sartre are about I think...
---it's a re-statement of the classic medieval philosophical doctrine of the 'real distinction' (Aquinas)
Dru

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IP LoggedBlue Hills

Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #11 - on: 09.04.2007 at 23:11 [UT+1] »Hi Dru and all,In my opinion, the best philosophy for astrology, and for that matter for everything is the kaballah. On the
kaballistic Tree of Life (please see the roughly drawn diagram below), the grey sphere at the top, known as
Wisdom is also known as the "sphere of the Zodiac", and was created, according to this philosophy, in alightening bolt, just after the top central white sphere Kether. The spheres, or sephiroth go from the most
spiritual to the material world, Malkuth at the bottom. In the qabalah, which is a comination of ancient kaballah
with modern occultism, the major arcana of the tarot are placed on the paths connecting the spheres. There are
22 paths, corresponding to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet, the 10 planets and 12 signs of astrology.
I'm sure a quick Google of kaballah or qabalah will bring up many informative results.
Warmly,Blue
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Tree_of_Life.jpg (attachment deleted)
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Bill Capricorn
Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #12 - on: 09.04.2007 at 23:25 [UT+1] »Blue Hills: Sorry I seem to be stepping on your post. Sorry about that. Can you show a link to the picture? I
can't make out what the words.
Dru, I understood what you said about Sartre did not apply to me. Thanks for your concern.
There is little about Heidegger here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger
A lot of resources that could be accessed are locked up. Robert Hand mentions articles but they are closed tothe public.
Does Robert Hand on the Endarkenment agree with your philosophy?
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_postmodern_e.htm
Thank you for bringing forth these ideas.
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IP LoggedBlue Hills

Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #13 - on: 10.04.2007 at 01:16 [UT+1] »Bill - Sorry about my hand drawn picture. I uploaded it from my files because I didn't want to infringe any
copyrights by using anyone else's picture. The sephiroth are (in English) 1. The Crown, 2. Wisdom, 3.
Understanding, 4. Mercy, 5. Severity, 6. Beauty, 7. Victory, 8. Splendor, 9. Foundation and 10. Kingdom
The Hebrew names are on this Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Life_%28Kabbalah%29
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Nikki
Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #14 - on: 10.04.2007 at 01:38 [UT+1] »Quote from dr_dude on 09.04.2007 at 21:06 [UT+1]:
if you believe that the human person is basically a spiritual essence trapped in a material body then this will have certain kind of
implications. likewise if you think that a human person is the top end of a process of genetic mutations and that mind is reducible tobrain, then this will also have certain implications. i dispute both these kinds of anthropologies, since they leave a lot to be desired andhave great ethical dilemmas associated with them.

H'lo everyone. Great discussion. Been following it from the old thread. Dru, what would you define thoseethical dilemmas (in both cases) to be?
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Bill Capricorn

Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #15 - on: 10.04.2007 at 03:23 [UT+1] »Blue Hills:
Thanks. Severity is an interesting one.
By chance I found an old Poetry booklet with this poem in it.
It is by Smuel Ha Nagid, "first major poet of the Hebrew literary renaissance in Muslim Spain" p 231 Poetry
January 1996. I am showing the online link to the magazine because I am quoting the poem....
see http://www.poetrymagazine.org/webexclusive/fromthearchive.thomas.html
THE HEART HOLDS HIDDEN KNOWLEDGE
The heart holds hidden
knowledge
and with words of its language
in your wisdom you'll find itlike a book that was written
by an inept hand,
and went unread,
until a sage looked through it
and saw what it said.
Translated from the Hebrew
by Peter Cole
The enjambment of the first to the second line is truly inspired.
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IP Loggeddr_dude
Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #16 - on: 10.04.2007 at 10:25 [UT+1] »Hi again --i'm glad this thread is generating so much interest!
Nikki -- in response to your question about ethical dilemmas. i'd say two major concerns --- in the dualistic
picture of humanity as spirit trapped in body, i think there is a real problem with what that means for our
understanding of the body, of sexuality, of work and of our daily lives as we live them in the here and now. it isquite an attractive and pervasive picture of the human person, stemming from Plato and finding its way rightPosts: 463
Gender:through to Descartes and into the contemporary age, New Age etc etc... the problem is it can tend towards
thinking negatively about the body and about mundane daily life. idealism is ok, as long as we think of ourideals, our mind, our spirit as IN THE WORLD and importantly, that our EMBODIEDNESS is essential to what weare -- our spirit and our mind are essentially EMBODIED SPIRIT and EMBODIED MIND. this is a much morepositive spin on things, since it places our sexuality, our genderedness, our physical being, in a much morepositive way. i think this is very important.
the second, naturalistic, model is much easier to critique. it simply reduces everything to matter, and mind,
spirit, etc etc are simply functions of matter. the ethical problem here is that real ethical problems about howhuman beings interact with one another can be brushed away as the ramifications of genetic or neurological
functioning. in its extreme form, even the concern for an ethical view of life would be said to be a function ofthis genetic, biological process... this leaves a lot to be desired.
best
Dru

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Angelo Marano

Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #17 - on: 10.04.2007 at 16:58 [UT+1] »Quote from dr_dude on 10.04.2007 at 10:25 [UT+1]:
idealism is ok, as long as we think of our ideals, our mind, our spirit as IN THE WORLD and importantly, that our EMBODIEDNESS isessential to what we are -- our spirit and our mind are essentially EMBODIED SPIRIT and EMBODIED MIND. this is a much more positivespin on things, since it places our sexuality, our genderedness, our physical being, in a much more positive way. i think this is very

Posts: 192
Gender:important.
Dru

I think the first three signs, aries, taurus, gemini, represent this process of embodiedness of spirit and mind.
Aries is the outpouring of spirit, energy in its purest form. the glyph can be viewed as a geyser, spiritemanating from its source, the unity, not in a straight line, but in a curved line, implying its return to thesource. It becomes condensed and embodied in taurus, resulting in matter. at gemini, matter becomes awareof itself through mind, becomes aware of the separation from the source, aware of duality. It is interesting thatboth spirit and matter precede mind in the astrological view. and mind precedes life, representated by cancer,
the womb.
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dr_dudeMember

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #18 - on: 10.04.2007 at 18:14 [UT+1] »Angelo --thanks for that --- that's really interesting way of seeing it!
i wonder how we might understand the polarity signs then? and the modalities?

Posts: 463
Gender:aries -- libra

cancer-cap

taurus -- scorpio
gemini -- sagleo-aquavirgo-pisces

Dru

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Angelo Marano

Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #19 - on: 10.04.2007 at 19:12 [UT+1] »The aries-libra axis show how we reunite with the spirit, i.e., through union, the rejoining of what was divided
by gemini. in libra, we see the other and unite with it, mundanely through marriage and partnerships, and thus
restore unity. Libra is the halfway point of the circle, the point where it changes direction back toward the
beginning, where spirit begins it's journey home, and this can only be done through unity (yoga). At scorpio,
Posts: 192
Gender:additional energy (mars) is required to "propel" the spirit/matter upward toward the zenith at capricorn, or it
would collapse back upon itself. The cancer capricorn axis is the crowning achievement of spirit in matter, theembodiment of life (soul) in inert matter, (saturn). Capricorn is the second birth, i.e., the birth of the spiritual
man within the mental, animal, or merely living, man resulting from the union at Libra (the fourth from the7th). This is an explanation of why jesus says that unless you are born again of the spirit and the water (soul),
you will not see the kingdom of god, the unity. (It has nothing to do with believing in jesus.) This axis, thisprocess is the beginning and the end of life (4th and 10th houses) - it is the unfolding of the inherent
properties of matter - spirit, mind and life.

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IP LoggedBlue Hills
Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #20 - on: 11.04.2007 at 01:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Bill Capricorn on 10.04.2007 at 03:23 [UT+1]:
Blue Hills:...... Severity is an interesting one.

Thanks for posting the poem. Yes, Severity is well, severe, but it's also known as Justice (Deen in Hebrew) andoccasionally is "pachad", meaning fear, because Cosmic Law is something to respected, rather lake the religious"fear of God". The red sphere is meant to balance the blue one, Mercy or Chesed. The tarot key Justice, whichcorresponds to Libra connects Severity to Tiphareth, the central "Christ Consciousness" or Son on the Tree, andthe tarot key The Hermit, which corresponds to Virgo connects Mercy to Tiphareth. Between Mercy and Severity
is the path of Teth, Key 8 of tarot, which corresponds to Leo.
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dr_dudeMember

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #21 - on: 11.04.2007 at 20:26 [UT+1] »Hi again --the posts about the way in which the zodiac signs are symbolic of a creative process, and those that remark
about kabbalistic symbolism raise an interesting question:is astrology a metaphysical system?
thoughts on this would be useful...

Posts: 463
Gender:my own opinion on this matter, is that it is not. i think it is an interpretational system...
so the contrast between a metaphysical and a hermeneutical (interpretational) system seem to be important inunderstanding how astrology works.
an example that might help to clarify, using the example of kabbalah. the tree of life is often understood as if it
is a cosmological map of some sort, so that the various levels and paths are said to be a metaphysical (andphysical if you include the 10th sphere) map of reality. however, it is worth remembering that this view of thetree really only took hold during the late 19th century renaissance of kabbalah by the theosophists. the originsof the tradition, basically early medieval jewish mysticism, show that the tree was not thought of as a
metaphysical map, but as a guide for spiritual practice. this also finds its way into some of the 19th century
magical systems as well, but it tends to be subordinated to the idea that the tree is a metaphysics.
using this as a contrast, we could view astrology in a similar way ---whilst there are many ways one could thinkof planetary and zodiac symbolism as in some way metaphysical, it might be better to regard it as aninterpretational system to guide life practice. that way the horoscope functions not as a determining frameworkfor one's life, but as a map of the way that one needs to practice one's life if one is to avoid the pitfalls and toembrace the opportunities.
best
Dru

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Christopher
Langmeier

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #22 - on: 11.04.2007 at 21:30 [UT+1] »Ex Member

I Suppose it rather depends on the definition of a "Metaphysical System".
As far as your comparisons to 19th century Magical Systems, as far as the Golden Dawn were concerned it
probably was. The Enochian (or Rosicrucian) Chessboards devised by them blend aspects of 5 "Magical
Systems". The first 4 are the "angles" of the Board. (The board is composed of truncated pyramids that
represent each of the squares of the board, so when you look at them from any side-perspective you will see
the sides of the pyramids displaying symbols appropriate to a different "Magical" perspective) The angles are:
The Kabbalist (Hebrew letters), The Cartomancer (Tarot Trump Numbers), The Geomancer (Geomantic dotpatterns), and the Astrologer (Zodiacal Glyphs). The 5th system is the Enochian System of Dee & Kelley.(Thesquares of the boards are derived from the "common" squares of the Enochian Watchtowers.
So perhaps.?
Chris

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Bill Capricorn

Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #23 - on: 11.04.2007 at 21:33 [UT+1] »In my book (In Pursuit of Wisdom by Abraham Kaplan (Glencoe 1977) (Hassid scholar who taught at UCLA andelsewhere) hermeneutics is an ancient form of finding authority in text interpretation (57). Subjective
interpretations lead to projected interpretations that become "hopelessly vague" (77).
An interesting example of a smile. It leads to many interpretations. But in the Noh or Kabuki mask, there is anorm.
The poem's turning point is that a sage reads the meaning of the text. The point is who is the sage? Jung's
archetype of the wise sage within?
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Shawn
Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #24 - on: 11.04.2007 at 23:10 [UT+1] »Quote from dr_dude on 10.04.2007 at 10:25 [UT+1]:
in the dualistic picture of humanity as spirit trapped in body, i think there is a real problem with what that means for our understanding of
the body, of sexuality, of work and of our daily lives as we live them in the here and now. it is quite an attractive and pervasive picture of
the human person, stemming from Plato and finding its way right through to Descartes and into the contemporary age, New Age etc etc...
the problem is it can tend towards thinking negatively about the body and about mundane daily life. idealism is ok, as long as we think of
our ideals, our mind, our spirit as IN THE WORLD and importantly, that our EMBODIEDNESS is essential to what we are -- our spirit andour mind are essentially EMBODIED SPIRIT and EMBODIED MIND. this is a much more positive spin on things, since it places oursexuality, our genderedness, our physical being, in a much more positive way. i think this is very important.

Posts: 235
Gender:Dru,
What you're describing, to my ears, is the paradox brought forth exclusively in the Age of Pisces. Before
Christianity, was the body so hated, so judged? I'm not sure, because I haven't studied enough to know... But
you raise the question, essentially: "Are we spiritual beings living a physical life, or are we physical beings livinga spiritual life?"
This question can be looked at through the symbol for Pisces: two fish swimming opposite each other, yet everconnected. The Age of Pisces has been about the separation of so many things... separation of East and West,separation of the heart from the mind, feeling from thinking, spirit from body, the spiritual from the physical,
religion from science, men from women, the ego from the soul, etc. I feel this has happened so we could learn
the strengths of each separate part (via the Virgo opposition to Pisces, purifying each individual part) before
uniting them again in the Aquarian Age (whose Leo opposition has a true appreciation of what it means to be
an individual). (I hope this isn't too off-topic in this thread... please tell me if it is!)The symbol implies the necessary separation of all these things from 'the other' (dualities?), and yet they arealways contained within the same symbol, ever-connected, never very far from each other. I feel part of the
struggle now is that they've become too far from each other, and the appreciation of paradox is lost to thecause of the Age of Reason, which is still haunting us. The paradox of astrology is so misunderstood (i.e. theparadox of how on earth can the planetary alignment at the time of birth represent your personal experience oflife?).
I feel the real philosophy in astrology is a philosophy of paradox.
Shawn

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dr_dudeMember

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #25 - on: 12.04.2007 at 00:27 [UT+1] »Shawn --good points... i'd say that there has been a subtle undermining of the body in many different religious andphilosophical systems. Plato, for instance, is very much pre-Christian. Many gnostic systems are violently antibody, too, since one consistent feature of the original gnostics (i admit they're a diverse bunch) tends to be theidea that matter is inherently evil... the irony is that the early Christian fathers fought hard against suchinterpretations by using the doctrine of creation to say that matter is inherently good --- and yet Christianteaching somehow managed to fall into the same trap, with a seriously flawed understanding of the body.
augustine's fault perhaps.
Posts: 463
Gender:Dru

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Bill Capricorn
Ex Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #26 - on: 12.04.2007 at 01:13 [UT+1] »"existence precedes essence, because for human beings our existence is our essence is the gist of what yourremarks on Sartre are about I think... " DruThis is like skipping stones. The ripples on the lake are from other remarks already, but to take a step back..
At birth we are not separate from the mother. In an analytic sense we have no identity, no self, no essence.
Being born does not create who we are. That is something that has to be found. If it were given, it would not
be worth seeking.
It is certainly, like life, worth questioning.

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Angelo Marano

Member

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #27 - on: 12.04.2007 at 02:22 [UT+1] »[quote author=Shawn link=1176127200/15#24 date=1176329400"Are we spiritual beings living a physical life, or are we physical beings living a spiritual life?"
This question can be looked at through the symbol for Pisces: two fish swimming opposite each other, yet everPosts: 192
Gender:connected. The Age of Pisces has been about the separation of so many things... separation of East and West,separation of the heart from the mind, feeling from thinking, spirit from body, the spiritual from the physical,
religion from science, men from women, the ego from the soul, etc. I feel this has happened so we could learn
the strengths of each separate part (via the Virgo opposition to Pisces, purifying each individual part) before
uniting them again in the Aquarian Age (whose Leo opposition has a true appreciation of what it means to be
an individual). (I hope this isn't too off-topic in this thread... please tell me if it is!)The symbol implies the necessary separation of all these things from 'the other' (dualities?), and yet they arealways contained within the same symbol, ever-connected, never very far from each other.
Shawn [/quote]
The separation you speak of is the illusion. There is no separation, except that created by the mind. this is the
Virgo-Pisces axis. The mind creates, or perceives, duality where none exists. That is the nature of mind, atleast the mercurial mind - to divide, to separate. It is man after the fall, after separation from "god" (gemini),
the knowledge of good and evil, of opposites, the perception of separateness where there is in Reality a unity.
The mind sees the head and the tail of a coin, not the whole coin, just as our eyes cannot see the whole coin.
This is because the Virgo (mutable earth) mind is the mind centered in matter, in the body, in the physical,
looking out from a consciousness centered in matter. Pisces, ruled by jupiter, sees from the higher mind. Do
not throw out the old rulerships of the signs. Neptune and the other outer planets did not replace jupiter,saturn and mars as rulers of signs. The are the higher octave of the inner planets; they add another level orrather perspective of consciusness that comes from beyond the solar reach; they represent the decreasing
power of the local system and the increasing influence of the Geater system, the galactic form. They are lessand less subject to the solar force that holds the planetary system together. From this perspective, dualities
begin to disappear - there is no up or down, no left and right. The duality does not entirely disappear, but it
diminishes. And it diminishes further as consciousness expands beyond the galactic. It can only totallydisappear when consciousness reaches the unity from which this creation was "born." This is a consciousness
we have not yet reached. It is something we can think about, but thinking always gives us back duality. It issomething we can imagine, but this is not experiencing it. We still have not really reached the consciousness of
neptune, though we talk about it as if we have. Neptune can not be seen by us except by the use physicalinstruments that "extend' our vision. This is not seeing with consciousness.
Pisces is the dissolving of that sparateness of vision that is earthly. The two are really one. that is the secret ofpisces that the mind that helps us navigate the world of matter cannot see. The earthly mind sees this asnebulousness, "indistinctness". and considers it a lack of clarity, but this tyoe of vision is closer to the "truth",closer to Reality. This Reality is not practical for us in the world of earthly vision and runs contrary to the social
order that values the "I". the "me as opposed to you". The mind operates in service to the ego, the separate.
Pisces and Neptune are the dissolvers of the ego.

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MatildaMember

Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #28 - on: 12.04.2007 at 02:34 [UT+1] »interesting and informative you might want to look at
Human design system uk
the Human design "birthchart" the bodygraph and mandala

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IP LoggedBlue Hills

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Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #29 - on: 12.04.2007 at 04:11 [UT+1] »Quote from dr_dude on 11.04.2007 at 20:26 [UT+1]:....is astrology a metaphysical system?

Isn't it generally agreed now that astrology is a "lanuage"? I think that the first person to coin this term wasRobert Blaschke in "Astrology - The Language of Life".
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Bill Capricorn
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Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #30 - on: 13.04.2007 at 03:11 [UT+1] »(I moved Kaplan digest to another thread)
Astrology a language?
Liz Greene says astrology is a lens, one among others...
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_plutint3_e.htm
QUOTE
Not a definition in a "carved-in-granite" sense, no. For me, astrology is a symbolic system. It is a lens or a tool
which utilises particular kinds of symbolic images or patterns to make sense of deeper patterns inherent in lifethat are otherwise impossible to grasp on an intellectual level, even though it is possible to experience them inother, non-intellectual ways. It is a means by which life can be interpreted in terms of the underlying patternsof its rubric. And that’s why I think all the other lenses - like the Tarot, Kabbalah, mythology, literature, poetry,drama, painting, sculpture - are all not only equally valid ways of apprehending those patterns, but have fed
into astrology while astrology has fed into them. I don’t think there is such a thing as pure astrology. To saythat is like saying there’s a pure English race. Astrology is a lens, a system of symbols.
ENDQUOTE« Last Edit: 13.04.2007 at 16:32 [UT+1] by u3540551 »Back to top

IP LoggedBlue Hills

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Re: Philosophy for Astrology« Reply #31 - on: 13.04.2007 at 19:48 [UT+1] »I think that when people first encounter astrology they try to look for a scientific explanation. This is only
natural, as we live in the material world. I think that the secret to trying to understand astrology is to not giveup our perfectly sound ideas about Newtonian physics, but to just put them in a "compartment" called "science"and then go into our imaginations and picture consciousness as a 4-dimensional (or multi-dimensional) cosmic
soup, in which the 3-dimensional world of space and time are just a part.
Einstein did something similar when he thought up "space-time" and curved space. This was the way heexplained the bending of light by gravity (which was subsequently proven to be true). Perhaps the mechanism
of astrology is really the interaction of light and space/time. Jeez, I dunno…
I started to write this as a reply to Biological Astrology
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1176449464/1#1
but perhaps it would be better here.
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