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Thoughts about house systems (Read 1004 times)

Arivirgo
MemberThoughts about house systems« on: 21.04.2020 at 19:50 [UT+1] »Hi all just wondering what your thoughts are on house systems. I have used both the equal house system andplacidus (resulting in changes in planets in houses) t just wondered what others thought of the systems given
the importance of the houses in astrology.

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Linda Harris

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #1 - on: 21.04.2020 at 20:05 [UT+1] »https://www.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Placidus_House_System
This is a much discussed topic on several areas of this forum. This page might help you,
LainiePosts: 17033
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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #2 - on: 21.04.2020 at 20:47 [UT+1] »Quote from Arivirgo on 21.04.2020 at 19:50 [UT+1]:
Hi all just wondering what your thoughts are on house systems. I have used both the equal house system and placidus (resulting inchanges in planets in houses) t just wondered what others thought of the systems given the importance of the houses in astrology.

Posts: 8143

I find many, especially in the UK where they don't always record time of birth, and higher latitudes, many prefer
the Equal or Whole Sign House systems. Unless the birth time is quite accurate Placidus is more difficult to beaccurate.. Also at much higher latitudes I (used to) look at both, Equal and Placidus, to determine what
planets remain in what houses. Tbh, I don't go through that much trouble any more, using inaccurate tob's
nor comparing to house systems to gain a reasonable accuracy to what planets are tenanted in what house is
too much Work...
You may want to ask those from the UK and/or higher latitudes their opinion...

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Linda Harris

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #3 - on: 22.04.2020 at 01:24 [UT+1] »Is Ari from the UK?
Maybe he is asking an ''in general'' question.
Posts: 17033

it is true that northern latitudes have their own problem....but depending upon where you live you may neverneed to create a chart for someone in those places.
I think I studied astrology and did research and gave readings for years before I had to give a reading tosomeone from the countries of those latitudes. And not all of the UK has that issue.
Just my thoughts,
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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #4 - on: 22.04.2020 at 12:17 [UT+1] »Quote from Linda Harris on 22.04.2020 at 01:24 [UT+1]:
Is Ari from the UK?
Maybe he is asking an ''in general'' question.

Posts: 288

it is true that northern latitudes have their own problem....but depending upon where you live you may never need to create a chart forsomeone in those places.
I think I studied astrology and did research and gave readings for years before I had to give a reading to someone from the countries of
those latitudes. And not all of the UK has that issue.
Just my thoughts,
LainieHi Linda
Thank you for the link I will look through it. Yes I am from the UK and feel the houses are important. Example
a mars in Aries in the 8th will be quite different than one One in 7th I imagine which is how just one planetchanges between house system. Anyway thankyou again
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Arivirgo

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #5 - on: 22.04.2020 at 12:20 [UT+1] »Quote from zippy on 21.04.2020 at 20:47 [UT+1]:
Quote from Arivirgo on 21.04.2020 at 19:50 [UT+1]:
Hi all just wondering what your thoughts are on house systems. I have used both the equal house system and placidus(resulting in changes in planets in houses) t just wondered what others thought of the systems given the importance of thehouses in astrology.

Posts: 288
I find many, especially in the UK where they don't always record time of birth, and higher latitudes, many prefer the Equal or Whole Sign
House systems. Unless the birth time is quite accurate Placidus is more difficult to be accurate.. Also at much higher latitudes I (used to)look at both, Equal and Placidus, to determine what planets remain in what houses. Tbh, I don't go through that much trouble any more,using inaccurate tob's nor comparing to house systems to gain a reasonable accuracy to what planets are tenanted in what house is toomuch Work...
You may want to ask those from the UK and/or higher latitudes their opinion...

Thankyou although I'm unsure about what the problem is with this the UK as opposed to other places. Did you
say its because time of birth isn't recorded?
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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #6 - on: 22.04.2020 at 14:57 [UT+1] »I'm not sure what Zippy was relating to interns of UK but I think it is important to know where the planets andsigns are.

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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #7 - on: 22.04.2020 at 15:36 [UT+1] »Quote from Arivirgo on 22.04.2020 at 12:20 [UT+1]:
Quote from zippy on 21.04.2020 at 20:47 [UT+1]:
Quote from Arivirgo on 21.04.2020 at 19:50 [UT+1]:
Hi all just wondering what your thoughts are on house systems. I have used both the equal house system

Posts: 8143

and placidus (resulting in changes in planets in houses) t just wondered what others thought of the systems
given the importance of the houses in astrology.

I find many, especially in the UK where they don't always record time of birth, and higher latitudes, many prefer the Equal
or Whole Sign House systems. Unless the birth time is quite accurate Placidus is more difficult to be accurate.. Also atmuch higher latitudes I (used to) look at both, Equal and Placidus, to determine what planets remain in what houses. Tbh,
I don't go through that much trouble any more, using inaccurate tob's nor comparing to house systems to gain areasonable accuracy to what planets are tenanted in what house is too much Work...
You may want to ask those from the UK and/or higher latitudes their opinion...

Thankyou although I'm unsure about what the problem is with this the UK as opposed to other places. Did you say its because time ofbirth isn't recorded?

I have found that many in the UK do not record times of birth on the Birth Certificate and w/o an accurate timeof birth the houses, and the signs on the house cusps (rulerships) are very often inaccurate in Placidus. So
many with an estimated tob use Equal or Whole sign House systems rather than Placidus.
Obviously it is not just the UK, and some places in UK do record times of birth, especially more recently. But
this would go for country that doesn't record time of birth.
For example, Arivirgo, you were born in the UK, is your time of birth written on your BirthCertificate? Is it a 'rounded off' time? Or a tob to the exact minute?
If it is a 'rounded off' time it is Extremely Rare for a birth to be exactly on the hour.
I was recently reading a chart with a rounded off time and pointed out that just 2 minutes later the the sign on
5th had changed so it's rulership had changed (the question was a 5th house question) and just 5 minutes later
tob the MC and IC changed rulerships (because the sign on those houses changed) His 5th was untenanted so
obviously one should look to the rulership (although most look to rulerships even if the house is tenanted).
Many not interested in astrology don't know their birth time to the exact minute or round it off notunderstanding the importance of an accurate birth time in astrology. When I see a rounded off birth time I
press to see what that time came from, birth certificate, mom's memory, where? Because even Mom's memory
can be quite off, imagine the pain, drugs, excitement while giving birth...
My point is that for those w/o an accurate tob, many prefer Equal or Whole House System vs Placidus
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Linda Harris
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #8 - on: 22.04.2020 at 16:17 [UT+1] »The planets are in the same sign at the same degree for a whole day. The only planet that changes enough tomake a big difference is the moon and even the moon has a wide enough orb to be pretty accurate whatevertime it is in your area.

Posts: 17033

As for the example you provided, the truth is that there is a difference between Mars being in the 7th or 8th,
BUT....it may not make a big difference in the dynamics of your life....and how Mars activates.
So...it would be helpful if you showed your chart in both forms....Placidus - tropical and Equal house. And thenwe can discuss what real differences the houses make.
BTW, IF any planet is on the 7-8 cusp (or any cusp) it's usually read for that next house anyway!!
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Arivirgo

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #9 - on: 22.04.2020 at 18:22 [UT+1] »Thankyou both for your input and I will endeavour to get my chart on here (still not sure how to do it) in bothhouse formats. It was my mother who told me it was 4pm as it was not recorded on the birth certificate. Thattime gives me a Virgo asc and I recognize that in me and I def recognise my cap moon. I will try and get thecharts posted.
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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #10 - on: 22.04.2020 at 18:48 [UT+1] »Please find attached charts as requested

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Arivirgo

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #11 - on: 22.04.2020 at 18:49 [UT+1] »And the other one

Posts: 288

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Ed Falis
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #12 - on: 22.04.2020 at 22:03 [UT+1] »Quote from Arivirgo on 22.04.2020 at 14:57 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure what Zippy was relating to interns of UK but I think it is important to know where the planets and signs are.

The effect of higher geographic latitude on house size would be my guess.

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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #13 - on: 22.04.2020 at 22:34 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 22.04.2020 at 22:03 [UT+1]:
Quote from Arivirgo on 22.04.2020 at 14:57 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure what Zippy was relating to interns of UK but I think it is important to know where the planets and signs are.

Posts: 8143

The effect of higher geographic latitude on house size would be my guess.

Actually NO.
I was referring to the inaccurate times of birth in UK because very often they do Not record times of birth on
the birth certificate. Which is why (it seems) that so many from UK use Equal or Whole sign house system.
The higher latitude issue is for some really high latitudes, UK is not such a high latitude as some of Russia,
Greenland, etc... Difficult (for me) to 'guess' what house a planet is in when sometimes 3/4 of the chart have
all the planets are tenanted in just a couple, three or four houses in Placidus, I was just trying to point out
another instance of using whole sign or equal sign house system, imo and maybe that's why it's preferable in
the upper latitude countries/places as well in countries that don't record birth times (like UK). IMO, even
Mom's birth time is quite "off", which as I said can change much including rulerships as well as houses. And
extremely high latitudes, much higher latitudes than the UK, can be quite difficult to decipher, at least using
houses and their rulerships (with Placidus)...
My suggestion to Arivirgo is to ask those from UK, as she is also from there w/o a birth certificate time, what
system they use and why... Get their input and suggestions.
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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #14 - on: 22.04.2020 at 22:56 [UT+1] »Thanks but how do I tell who is from the UK and who isn't on here?

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Alias Wilbury

Ex Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #15 - on: 22.04.2020 at 23:24 [UT+1] »I think the natural house system is worth a test drive.

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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #16 - on: 23.04.2020 at 00:17 [UT+1] »Quote from Arivirgo on 22.04.2020 at 22:56 [UT+1]:
Thanks but how do I tell who is from the UK and who isn't on here?

Posts: 8143

I don't know, but I'd imagine a thread "Calling on all UK/England born astrologers views on house systems"
may be a start (?)

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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #17 - on: 23.04.2020 at 00:19 [UT+1] »Quote from Alias Wilbury on 22.04.2020 at 23:24 [UT+1]:
I think the natural house system is worth a test drive.

Posts: 8143

Up to you, but if you have even a rounded off or Mom's Memory tob I'd suggest that, or go with others that do
not have a birth certificate tob suggest, up to you...

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Ed Falis
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #18 - on: 23.04.2020 at 02:37 [UT+1] »Quote from zippy on 22.04.2020 at 22:34 [UT+1]:
Quote from Ed Falis on 22.04.2020 at 22:03 [UT+1]:
Quote from Arivirgo on 22.04.2020 at 14:57 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure what Zippy was relating to interns of UK but I think it is important to know where the planetsand signs are.

The effect of higher geographic latitude on house size would be my guess.

Actually NO.

Posts: 635
Gender:I was referring to the inaccurate times of birth in UK because very often they do Not record times of birth on the birth certificate. Which iswhy (it seems) that so many from UK use Equal or Whole sign house system.
...

My mistake. Sorry!
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Arivirgo

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #19 - on: 23.04.2020 at 11:36 [UT+1] »Quote from zippy on 23.04.2020 at 00:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alias Wilbury on 22.04.2020 at 23:24 [UT+1]:
I think the natural house system is worth a test drive.

Posts: 288

Up to you, but if you have even a rounded off or Mom's Memory tob I'd suggest that, or go with others that do not have a birth certificate
tob suggest, up to you...

I'm glad to see that you have a sense of humour. So long as people have the info on my chart they could input
on what they see regardless of where they are so long as they know astrology.
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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #20 - on: 23.04.2020 at 14:06 [UT+1] »Yeah, my thought with asking those from UK is that since tob is so frequently is not on the birth certificate, likeyourself, you may get input directly related to your question on house systems.

Posts: 8143

It seems to me that often on the forum I find UK members more likely to use Whole or Equal and hypothesizedthat it's due to an uncertain tob. But.. That's just my 'theory'.
IMO, Placidus is more accurate, but only if you have a somewhat accurate tob.
Anyway, happy studies...

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Arivirgo

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #21 - on: 23.04.2020 at 17:21 [UT+1] »I thanks Zippy. I'll prob stick with equal house even if it does put mars in 8th as opposed to 7th.

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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #22 - on: 23.04.2020 at 18:21 [UT+1] »I'm curious as to how your finances have been, in general through your life?
In Equal your Sun/Jupiter and Mercury in the 8th, the 8th being a money house, others money, joint money,

Posts: 8143

inherited money; part of a Grand trine with Moon 5th, luck and romance; trine Pluto and Uranus conjunct
ASC... I would imagine you have done OK. Your 2nd, ruled by Venus (planet of both money and love) and2nd representing self-made money and Venus conjunct MC and in the 10th, ruler of the 10th. Saturn in the
6th, a work house, ruled by Uranus which is part of the Grand Trine. The 11th, goals, ruled by Moon again partof the Grand Trine in the 5th of Luck.
The key difference in the two charts, imo, is that Jupiter and Mercury are in the 9th house in Placidus...
What I'm asking is do you see yourself more a 9th house Sun/Jupiter, luck and interest in 9th house matters?

But if you've done somewhat well for yourself financially...

Do you think the trine involving 9th, world views

and philosophies, travel outweigh the financial aspects supported with an 8th house Sun/Jupiter? Possibly
especially related to others money, (8th house)? 8th house is not just "joint' money per se, it is others money
including speculation in stock market, inheritance, or something of that nature. But also of self made moneywith Venus ruling the 2nd and 10th...

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Arivirgo

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #23 - on: 23.04.2020 at 22:11 [UT+1] »I have to say that all of that went over my head.
I am not 'well to do'. I started work at 16 and always been a hard worker (grand trine in earth) There are noplanets in 2nd house incidentally.
Posts: 288

Education is important to me so I gained my degree in my thirties as a single parent (so that i could get abetter paid job to support myself and child) then studied again in my forties (self funded) whilst still working
and volunteering to obtain something that I had always wanted to do and that was therapeutic counselling. So
no stock market etc
The grand trine is in Pluto, mercury and moon.

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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #24 - on: 23.04.2020 at 22:31 [UT+1] »Hi Skippy
I do not consider myself have been particularly lucky but I always worked hard to provide for my child and I(5th cap and children).
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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #25 - on: 23.04.2020 at 22:43 [UT+1] »Quote from Arivirgo on 23.04.2020 at 22:31 [UT+1]:
Hi Skippy
I do not consider myself have been particularly lucky but I always worked hard to provide for my child and I (5th cap and children).

Posts: 8143

Well the best to you, it seems (imo) that more 9th house issues have been illuminated, Idk, I am an Plucidus
advocate.

I was sort of wondering of this conundrum too

Oh well, best of luck of you.
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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #26 - on: 24.04.2020 at 12:52 [UT+1] »Hu Zippy
Firstly, apologies for getting your name wrong only I was tired. I don't even know what it means if one houseis much smaller than the other in Placidus.
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StefanMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #27 - on: 24.04.2020 at 16:50 [UT+1] »Quote:I am an Plucidus advocate

I am thrilled to hear more about the 'Plucidus' system

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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #28 - on: 24.04.2020 at 18:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Arivirgo on 23.04.2020 at 22:11 [UT+1]:
I have to say that all of that went over my head.
I am not 'well to do'. I started work at 16 and always been a hard worker (grand trine in earth) There are no planets in 2nd houseincidentally.

Posts: 8143

Education is important to me so I gained my degree in my thirties as a single parent (so that i could get a better paid job to support
myself and child) then studied again in my forties (self funded) whilst still working and volunteering to obtain something that I had always
wanted to do and that was therapeutic counselling. So no stock market etc
The grand trine is in Pluto, mercury and moon.

Just for clarification, I said Venus rules your 2nd and 10th and is tenanted in your 10th conjunct MC (Equal
House).
I never said you had planets in the 2nd.
Your Grand trine includes Uranus which as I said is the 6th house ruler, a work house, so seemingly I would
have thought money to come more easily. Placidus seems more accurate, imo, with 2nd ruler Mercury in the
9th with Jupiter and your going back to school much.

Quote:In Equal your Sun/Jupiter and Mercury in the 8th, the 8th being a money house, others money, joint money, inherited money; part of aGrand trine with Moon 5th, luck and romance; trine Pluto and Uranus conjunct ASC... I would imagine you have done OK. Your 2nd, ruled
by Venus (planet of both money and love) and 2nd representing self-made money and Venus conjunct MC and in the 10th,
ruler of the 10th. Saturn in the 6th, a work house, ruled by Uranus which is part of the Grand Trine. The 11th, goals, ruled byMoon again part of the Grand Trine in the 5th of Luck.

« Last Edit: 25.04.2020 at 15:36 [UT+1] by zippy »Back to top

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Arivirgo

Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #29 - on: 25.04.2020 at 16:10 [UT+1] »Thanks for clarification. I have realised that as i had been using the default on here for charts, they werecoming up as placidus anyway. It is interesting to see the change in planets between the house systems.

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zippyMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #30 - on: 25.04.2020 at 20:19 [UT+1] »Kind of interesting to me that it seems as though the 9th (Placidus) seems more highlighted in your life thanmaking money, or money coming easy to you that is shown in the Equal (imo).
Anyway, if in time keep us updated on what you find more accurate.
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Re: Thoughts about house systems

Arivirgo

Member« Reply #31 - on: 26.04.2020 at 08:55 [UT+1] »I worked for the bulk of my from being a teen up until a couple of years ago. I was never ambituos so neverreached tje top in any jobs. As mentioned, I pursued academia in order to get better work and pay and toobtain a lifelong dream of being a therapist. I was the first in my family to go to university.
Posts: 288

I think what also changes between the charts are Venus and mars. I'm really not sure exactly what thedifference mars would be between 8th and 7th. Nor the difference between Venus in 9th or 10th.
Anyway. Thanks I'll read up in the differences in change of sign for the above.

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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #32 - on: 26.04.2020 at 09:00 [UT+1] »Just wanted to add that since leaving paid employment I wrote a self help book, again it was a lifelong goal likethe therapy course.

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StefanMember

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #33 - on: 26.04.2020 at 13:43 [UT+1] »Your vedic chart show ascendant ruler A in 8th house.
Your essence and true self. your path is being the therapist
dealing with deep issues and transformation.

CF in 9th house show growth in higher education andas a wise teacher consultant.

OJ m asc
Going your own way, not so ruled by society's norm of success and failure, going beyond that.
Posts: 2010

Pluto angular is powerful and signature of therapist skills as well.
Jupiter is doing mutual reception with 8th house mars. Showing connection between academia and therapy.
Jupiters 16 year planetary period starting 2023 seems promising economically and growing in wisdom andperhaps further lecturing and consulting.

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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #34 - on: 26.04.2020 at 20:43 [UT+1] »Hi Stefan
Thankyou for your input even if I have no idea what vedic is. I enjoyed my work as a therapist very much andsee it as the best job that I ever did. It was very fulfilling yet humbling at the same time. I do like educating
Posts: 288

myself even if it is just short courses. I only have brief experience as a lecturer.
Anyway thankyou

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Re: Thoughts about house systems

StefanMember« Reply #35 - on: 27.04.2020 at 14:17 [UT+1] »Hi again...
I can't resist mentioning that you have your FC in the lunar mansion/nakshatra Ascwhini (healing)
It is said to be good for all kind of therapists. It's old indian mythological rulers is the ashwini kumaris,
which is "the healers of the Gods".
Quote:The Ashwini Kumaras are rightly called the Physicians of the Gods.

Posts: 2010

Quote:
It is an important nakshatra for doctors, psychologists and innovative leaders, affording good insight and original ideas.”

I thought it fun that the archetypical psychologist Sigmund Freud have DKJ in this lunar mansion.

Your sidereal vedic chart and Sigmund Freuds, Ashwini is located (0-13 sidereal aries.).

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freud.PNG

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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #36 - on: 28.04.2020 at 20:09 [UT+1] »I am surprised to find that Freud had so many planets in the 7th. Whilst I appreciate that he is the founding
father of therapy without whom we wouldn't be where we are today, some of his theories are a little strange tome.

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Lune Rouge

Ex Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #37 - on: 02.05.2020 at 17:12 [UT+1] »Quote from Arivirgo on 28.04.2020 at 20:09 [UT+1]:
I am surprised to find that Freud had so many planets in the 7th. Whilst I appreciate that he is the founding father of therapy without
whom we wouldn't be where we are today, some of his theories are a little strange to me.

I am usually quite suspicious of the time birth of anyone born in such a distant past, but if we use Whole Signs
he was a Scorpio rising with his Moon and Saturn in the 8th house. As we know, his theories were quite focusedon repressed human sexuality. His Mars, the ruler of his 6th house was in the 12th house, the house of thesubconscious, and the ruler of his 12th house (Venus) was in the 6th house (healing).

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Arivirgo
Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #38 - on: 02.05.2020 at 23:26 [UT+1] »Scorpio would be more what I would have expected really. His methodologies left a lot to be desired but that islooking at it from the point of view of now as opposed to how things were in his time. He was at the forefrontof it all even if his subjects were all Viennese middle class women, which wasn't exactly representative. I think
it is really interesting the differences in house systems in astrology as these are important yet there is no
Posts: 288

standardisation of them. If a complete novice wanted a chart interpretation then they would be likely to get
different interpretations which would only serve to make them more confused. Infact you do get variedinterpretations anyway.

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Lune Rouge

Ex Member

Re: Thoughts about house systems« Reply #39 - on: 03.05.2020 at 16:03 [UT+1] »Quote from Arivirgo on 02.05.2020 at 23:26 [UT+1]:
Scorpio would be more what I would have expected really. His methodologies left a lot to be desired but that is looking at it from thepoint of view of now as opposed to how things were in his time. He was at the forefront of it all even if his subjects were all Viennese
middle class women, which wasn't exactly representative. I think it is really interesting the differences in house systems in astrology asthese are important yet there is no standardisation of them. If a complete novice wanted a chart interpretation then they would be likely
to get different interpretations which would only serve to make them more confused. Infact you do get varied interpretations anyway.

Yes, a variety of house systems is definitely a huge, huge flaw of astrology, mostly because it causes differences
in interpretations - and houses are so important for an accurate interpretation. As if existence of Tropical andSidereal zodiac isn't confusing enough, there are also numerous house systems involved. I personallyconsistently use Whole Sign system because it's applicable to any area on Earth, including areas near the poles.
Placidus is way off in these areas, and I think that house systems should be used consistently to be valid.
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