 EN

 Shopping Cart

Astrodienst Forum Archive
Astrodienst Forum › English Language Area › Discussion: Psychological and General My Astro

24.01.2023 at 10:10 [UT]« Previous topic | Next topic

Astrology»

Pages: 1
for those of us that have planets in the 8th house (Read 5807 times)

awareness
Memberfor those of us that have planets in the 8th house« on: 19.12.2010 at 14:58 [UT] »http://merliannews.com/Astrology_11/The_Mysteries_of_the_8th_House_House_of_Deat
h_Transformation_by_Carmen_Turner_Schott_MSW_LISW.shtml

Posts: 148

For all these years it has been really hard to see the purpose of the 8th house.
I guess it is not only me who might recognize oneself in this article.
I especially embrace the conclusion on Oneness instead of Separateness at the end!
Enjoy!

Back to top
IP Logged~ LOU15E ~Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #1 - on: 19.12.2010 at 16:01 [UT] »Very interesting.
I have G and A at 25 and 26 degrees in b in my 8th and I must say that I do have an intense fear/phobia of
death. I put it down to almost dying three times. Once when I was born (cord around my neck) and the othertwice of choking (on food).
The other thing she mentions is people with signs in the 8th experience death of someone close to them atyoung age. This is definitely bang on again for me. My brother, mother, grandparents and also friends.
Posts: 14349

I would also say that I am a very compassionate person and tend to put others before myself. In the past I
have also suffered with depression, so that article is definitely spot on for me.

Back to top

IP Logged

awareness
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #2 - on: 19.12.2010 at 18:58 [UT] »Quote:
I have and at 25 and 26 degrees in in my 8th and I must say that I do have an intense fear/phobia of death. I put it down to almost dying
three times. Once when I was born (cord around my neck) and the other twice of choking (on food).

Posts: 148

Sounds dramatic! I can image that these experiences do follow you.

G mA in the 8th house.....To me it seems like a dramatic event has to manifest itself somehow.
Happy to hear that you find yourself compassionate. Seems to me you worked well on your AmG then. G has
a tendency to be a little strict on a person doesnt it?
I have A in 3 degrees e, C 21d conjunct E 23d, all in 8th house. My ascendant is inh and J m MC, so
guess if I feel Plutoian, 8th house-like!
I especially recognize the need to go deep into things, and the ability to "read" people I meet. What Carmen
Turner Scott mentions about feeling awkward about this ability instead of integrating it as a positive aspect of
my life is also spot on in my case.
I do not think I have been more than others exposed to death. In fact I regard death as natural an feel I have aholistic approach to the moment of death- both myself and others.
Although I do remember I was surrounded by many elderly relatives when young, and I could "feel" death at
early age.

Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #3 - on: 19.12.2010 at 23:33 [UT] »The article starts with:"After studying astrology for several years, it became evident to me that the most powerful house in our
astrological chart was the eighth house."
What? More powerful than the 1st? Than the 10th? Than the other angular houses, the 4th and 7th? I hope
all of you who are new to astrology realize that this completely contradicts the experience of the vast majorityof astrologers, ancient, medieval and contemporary. Just because someone writes something and it sounds
nice doesn't mean its true or makes sense.
Oh, I suppose I should mention her calling it the house of Scorpio. We all know that the fallacy of an historicalsign/house connection has been pointed out. Just had to mention it again. Couldn't let it slide.

Back to top

IP Logged

Lynne
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #4 - on: 20.12.2010 at 00:08 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 19.12.2010 at 23:33 [UT]:The article starts with:"After studying astrology for several years, it became evident to me that the most powerful house in our astrological chart was the eighthhouse."
What? More powerful than the 1st? Than the 10th? Than the other angular houses, the 4th and 7th? I hope all of you who are new toastrology realize that this completely contradicts the experience of the vast majority of astrologers, ancient, medieval and contemporary.
Just because someone writes something and it sounds nice doesn't mean its true or makes sense.
Oh, I suppose I should mention her calling it the house of Scorpio. We all know that the fallacy of an historical sign/house connection has
been pointed out. Just had to mention it again. Couldn't let it slide.

I thought she was getting a bit carried away with herself with that comment too. In fact I thought the wholetone of the article was overly dramatic......seemed like she was talking about Scorpio rather than the 8th house.
I know several people with planets in this house, and they seem like pretty normal people to me.
What I've noticed about them most is that they are focused on building financial security with their partners,
and secondly, there's no bulls**t with them. They are not superficial people and don't skirt around things inconversation or in life; they have courage.
Back to top
IP Logged
vertexMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #5 - on: 20.12.2010 at 00:15 [UT] »Awareness,
Thanks for the article....
Posts: 5575
Gender:ZappoII,"I studied 11th century history to dig up old lost astronomical information. We all know the fallacy of the Sunrevolving around the Earth has been pointed out....."
That is what you sound like....

Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #6 - on: 20.12.2010 at 00:22 [UT] »Quote from Lynne on 20.12.2010 at 00:08 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 19.12.2010 at 23:33 [UT]:The article starts with:"After studying astrology for several years, it became evident to me that the most powerful house in our astrological chart
was the eighth house."
What? More powerful than the 1st? Than the 10th? Than the other angular houses, the 4th and 7th? I hope all of you who
are new to astrology realize that this completely contradicts the experience of the vast majority of astrologers, ancient,medieval and contemporary. Just because someone writes something and it sounds nice doesn't mean its true or makes
sense.
Oh, I suppose I should mention her calling it the house of Scorpio. We all know that the fallacy of an historical sign/houseconnection has been pointed out. Just had to mention it again. Couldn't let it slide.

I thought she was getting a bit carried away with herself with that comment too. In fact I thought the whole tone of the article was overly
dramatic......seemed like she was talking about Scorpio rather than the 8th house. I know several people with planets in this house, andthey seem like pretty normal people to me.
What I've noticed about them most is that they are focused on building financial security with their partners, and secondly, there's nobulls**t with them. They are not superficial people and don't skirt around things in conversation or inlife; they have courage.

You've described me rather well.

(8th house personal planets here.)

Back to top
IP Logged
CelineMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #7 - on: 20.12.2010 at 01:04 [UT] »Those with 8th house planets (especially Sun or Moon) tend to be rather morose and "heavy" when young but
get lighter with age (I have Sun 8th natally). They also tend to get rather fearless after plumbing throughnumerous phobias and obsessions in their youth (other things considered, of course).
Posts: 2948
Gender:the future looks bright for us

Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #8 - on: 20.12.2010 at 03:09 [UT] »I've three planets there... ACF... I'm not afraid of death. I've never lost anyone either.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged
Lynne

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #9 - on: 20.12.2010 at 03:18 [UT] »Interestingly, two of my 8th house friends are nurses. One works in radiology/xray and the other inoncology/palliative care...both very 8th house themes.

Back to top

IP Logged

Pistacia
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #10 - on: 20.12.2010 at 04:29 [UT] »Lynne that's interesting. I'm going to study massaging next year funnily and i have both Sun and Mars in 8thhouse, with Moon at the cusp (conj. Sun).
Read quite alot of having Mars in 8th, unfortunately most of it being more on the negative side (like being a

Posts: 2187
Gender:prostitute, accident prone etc). While i'm sure some of what i read might have some truth, i also feel thathaving Mars here has perhaps added the courage taking action in these life & death situations of other people
since i have never panicked in them and somehow always known what to do.
I've gotten in these situations more than i wish i would and it is never easy. EpFO, rC (AC ruler)
I have Mars in Aries, with Sun/Moon being in Pisces.

Back to top
IP Logged
awareness

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #11 - on: 20.12.2010 at 08:40 [UT] »Zappo II: I totally agree with you. No house is more important than any other. Maybe i got so carried awaywith other contents of her article that I kind of closed my eyes to that point of view. Blame it on my C mE ind and the 8th house.....

I truly got an eager / restless mind combined with the need to investigate on a
deeper level. This combination sometimes collides!
Posts: 148

But I do think she point out the posibilities and the transformational of the 8th house in an interesting way. I
guess it is many more 8th house people than me that could be interested in reflecting more on these aspects of
the house.
And now we have this discussion here to investigate further. Good!
Celine: Quote:Those with 8th house planets (especially Sun or Moon) tend to be rather morose and "heavy" when young but get lighter with age (I have
Sun 8th natally). They also tend to get rather fearless after plumbing through numerous phobias and obsessions in their youth (otherthings considered, of course).

I personally really recognize this from my youth. Like the 8th house planets was something only time andexperiences with "real life" was needed to be well integrated in my personality.
Celes: I agree about it being tradtionally a lot of negative stuff on mars in the 8th house.
In Greene / Sasportas book Inner Planets Princess Dianas 8th house mars is being discussed. There Greene
points out that the 8th house planets are kind of hidden to us, being in control of others until you meet themtrough projections and get the possibility to integrate them personally. Interesting! I know my 8th house A ,C and E In many ways "belonged" to my family until early adulthood. Not Saying it was either particulary
good or bad. More like a place to develope from.
Back to top

IP Logged

_Bojan_Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #12 - on: 20.12.2010 at 09:24 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 20.12.2010 at 03:09 [UT]:
I've three planets there...

ACF... I'm not afraid of death. I've never lost anyone either.

Same here, with BCF in 8th
Quote from Celine on 20.12.2010 at 01:04 [UT]:Those with 8th house planets (especially Sun or Moon) tend to be rather morose and "heavy" when young but get lighter with age (I have
Sun 8th natally). They also tend to get rather fearless after plumbing through numerous phobias and obsessions in their youth (other

Posts: 1331
Gender:things considered, of course).
the future looks bright for us

You, know, this sums up pretty much also my feelings/thoughts about it.
Back to top
IP Logged
AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #13 - on: 20.12.2010 at 12:17 [UT] »No.
I have five planets + vertex plus other assorted thingys like asteroids and such in the 8th. I also know a few
people who do not have tenanted 8th houses. I doubt they think their 8th house is anywhere near as
overwhelming to them as mine is to me.
Your 'most powerful house' is your most powerful house, which is probably the house or houses where you see
the most activity, i.e., you have planets there, or a strong set of aspects to the rulers, at the very least. To be a
powerful house for you, something has to be happening there. Most people don't even know they have an 8thhouse until they experience transits or take mind-altering substances.
My favorite, of course, is when an 8th house novice gets into an 8th house relationship. HAHAHAHAHA. Then
all hell breaks loose as they 'discover' their dark side and hidden depths they didn't know were there.
Sorry; just a little 8th house humour at the expense of others.
Now I'll go back to being saintly and angelic....

yeah, right.

Back to top

IP Logged

Elemi66
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #14 - on: 20.12.2010 at 12:38 [UT] »I have my north node there....I find the 8th house sex, death birth trinity a bit restrictive to say the least. thisis prob cos of my ninth house stellium. Must read the article when I get time.
the eighth house suns I know have very difficult families
Back to top
IP Logged
Raggamuffin Lion

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #15 - on: 20.12.2010 at 13:10 [UT] »Bg reporting here. Oh, and J h I suppose. Both planets take part in heavy T-Squares also (B involving G& F, J involving A, E and Ascendant). So yeah, got a pretty important 8th house so to say. Will read thelink, and post more later perhaps.

Posts: 403
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

vertex
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #16 - on: 20.12.2010 at 19:37 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 20.12.2010 at 12:17 [UT]:My favorite, of course, is when an 8th house novice gets into an 8th house relationship. HAHAHAHAHA. Then all hell breaks loose as they
'discover' their dark side and hidden depths they didn't know were there.

Posts: 5575
Gender:Sorry; just a little 8th house humour at the expense of others.
Now I'll go back to being saintly and angelic....

yeah, right.

Amused, I think you are laughing at snafus of your younger self, no?
I remember your views about the 8th house relationship.
Is it possible those with luminaries in there might possible view them differently? Just a thought......
Back to top
IP Logged
AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #17 - on: 20.12.2010 at 20:10 [UT] »I have no idea what people with the luminaries in the 8th feel or think, other than to make generalobservations based on personal experience or book reading...
But as for me personally... well, where should we begin to analyse—with my first love, Billy, who gave me adaisy, at the age of five? I have subsequently always had a soft spot for daisies... a simple flower, but evocativeof a pure emotion... so sweet.
It has been my personal experience to have mostly 8th house relationships. They are not light-hearted, and, it
seems to me, require a different level of emotional awareness, one that I do not recommend for anyone who is
not interested in change and sublimation of ego. 8th house relationships can be incredibly difficult, and bringup energies that most people think they can handle, until they come up against the extent of their, or theirpartner's, jealousy, resentment, and possessiveness, as well as other emotions they have been taught are 'notnice,' and are not used to. Then there are 8th house relationships that inspire these emotions in others, theobservers of your relationship, who might interfere.
A productive 8th house relationship is entirely possible, but requires a lot of communication of a certain kind,
one where neither is afraid to be open and honest.

Back to top

IP Logged

viola magmar
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #18 - on: 20.12.2010 at 20:45 [UT] »mmmh, 8th house cuspid Cancer, intercepted Leo, cuspid Virgo. the house includes: vertex, NN Pluto andJupiter.
Pluto sextiles Uranus in Gemini and trines Venus in Aries
NN sextile Neptune in Libra
Jupiter trining AC Sagittarius and squaring Mercury in 5th Taurus
Posts: 7554
Gender:Coups de foudre, exclusively!
Very intense feelings, sort of... forever everI am a writer, get deep into characters and sort of unveil their essence
Big projects but not rarely, withdraw for lack of ambition (Jup square Mercury) and Mars in Cancer: Mars rules
4th house with Sun there, squared by Vertex
I lost a friend when I was 20, same year my aunt. Then my father, then my husband and last year, mother.
Well, I did pay a tribute to death... as passing away is not an easy walk, but no good for those who stay...
either. Still, as far as other people's resources, yes, I inherited. money and possessions wise, but I had
contributed to building the little I then received in full.
I am increadibly creative... well, I have been. Not much active these days, but have not given up and wait for
next occasion to arise!!! Looking for a move, wish to sell my place and move into town and... start painting andwriting all over again.
more. I'll come backciaodaviola
ps: I have a fire trine: AC Sag, Sun in Aries and Jup in Leo, and although many don't see the greatness of this, many other appreciate, Me too
ps2: I do, am, a phoenix and keep resurrecting from ashes! I could say I happen, at times, to be in touch withother dimensions...?...

Back to top
IP Logged
vertexMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #19 - on: 20.12.2010 at 21:49 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 20.12.2010 at 20:10 [UT]:
I have no idea what people with the luminaries in the 8th feel or think, other than to make general observations based on personal
experience or book reading...
But as for me personally... well, where should we begin to analyse—with my first love, Billy, who gave me a daisy, at the age of five? I

Posts: 5575
Gender:have subsequently always had a soft spot for daisies... a simple flower, but evocative of a pure emotion... so sweet.

It has been my personal experience to have mostly 8th house relationships. They are not lighthearted, and, it seems to me, require a different level of emotional awareness, one that I do notrecommend for anyone who is not interested in change and sublimation of ego. 8th house
relationships can be incredibly difficult, and bring up energies that most people think they canhandle, until they come up against the extent of their, or their partner's, jealousy, resentment,
and possessiveness, as well as other emotions they have been taught are 'not nice,' and are notused to. Then there are 8th house relationships that inspire these emotions in others, theobservers of your relationship, who might interfere.
A productive 8th house relationship is entirely possible, but requires a lot of communication of acertain kind, one where neither is afraid to be open and honest.

I agree with you.
Sorry, I was under the wrong impression that you thought that 8th house relationships never work out. I
wondered why. I thought, while they may be guaranteed disaster for immature folks (I include myself in thisgroup) perhaps it may work for some ripe and strong people. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up....
Back to top

IP Logged~LeelaEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #20 - on: 20.12.2010 at 21:56 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 20.12.2010 at 20:10 [UT]:
I have no idea what people with the luminaries in the 8th feel or think, other than to make general observations based on personal
experience or book reading...
But as for me personally... well, where should we begin to analyse—with my first love, Billy, who gave me a daisy, at the age of five? I
have subsequently always had a soft spot for daisies... a simple flower, but evocative of a pure emotion... so sweet.
It has been my personal experience to have mostly 8th house relationships. They are not light-hearted, and, it seems to me, require adifferent level of emotional awareness, one that I do not recommend for anyone who is not interested in change and sublimation of ego.
8th house relationships can be incredibly difficult, and bring up energies that most people think they can handle, until they come up
against the extent of their, or their partner's, jealousy, resentment, and possessiveness, as well as other emotions they have been taught
are 'not nice,' and are not used to. Then there are 8th house relationships that inspire these emotions in others, the observers of yourrelationship, who might interfere.
A productive 8th house relationship is entirely possible, but requires a lot of communication of a certain kind, one where neither is afraid
to be open and honest.

This rings true. The bulk of my planets fall in my husband's 8th house, and the bulk of his planets fall in my
12th. The relationship has been very challenging and wonderful at the same time.
Back to top
IP Logged
Michelle

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #21 - on: 20.12.2010 at 22:54 [UT] »I found the link to be accurate.
I have Jupiter, Uranus and Pluto in the 8th.
Don't even try to tell me that Uranus and Pluto are just generational
Michelle
Back to top

IP Logged

a chairEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #22 - on: 21.12.2010 at 04:02 [UT] »Quote from ~ Angel Feather ~ on 19.12.2010 at 16:01 [UT]:
I haveG and A at 25 and 26 degrees in b in my 8th and I must say that I do have an intense fear/phobia of death. I put it down toalmost dying three times. Once when I was born (cord around my neck) and the other twice of choking (on food).

Do you have the Sun quincunx the ASC. There used to be a member here who had his Sun quincunx the ASC
from the 5th house cusp & I have it quincunx from the 8th house cusp. (I'm speaking of equal house cusps
BTW) We both had problems during our births because of the cord being around our necks. It was on a threadabout how aspects to the ASC can indicate things about a person's birth. Here's DJ's post on the thread.
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1263412446/0#1
Ever since I was little—though not much anymore—I would put my covers over my neck out of fear thatsomeone or something would try to cut off my head in my sleep. Maybe I shouldn't of watched Sleepy Hallow.
Back to top
IP Logged
MaryonMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #23 - on: 21.12.2010 at 11:08 [UT] »Hai Awareness and you all..the writings in the article are very familyar...
About your question Awareness
Those with 8th house planets (especially Sun or Moon) tend to be rather morose and "heavy" when young but
get lighter with age (I have Sun 8th natally). They also tend to get rather fearless after plumbing throughnumerous phobias and obsessions in their youth (other things considered, of course). And the words ofAmused (and Vertex)
My favorite, of course, is when an 8th house novice gets into an 8th house relationship. HAHAHAHAHA. Then
Posts: 776
Gender:all hell breaks loose as they 'discover' their dark side and hidden depths they didn't know were there. Wenn I

was young I felt like a little sereen kind of girl (Dc my I side )... I didn't went for a straight line life, I wasreally thinking it was just the way things went: nothing to do with me.
Now I know myself and I understand that my 8 house planets (AC and vertex), h asc, different J aspects
made me (also)a traveller from the underworld: comming to the surface every half year
so to speak. And
there was a thing: I didn't like sexuality very much.... I didn't understood it, wenn I was young. Now I
understand myself also in that sence, thank god the hidden depts!
I am more fearless about saying what I think. But fearfull about loosing the two ones I dearly love.( I lost my
man and two dear friends wenn we where younger). I have the feeling I survive anything (at the end
sensitive way: travelling with also spiritual blossoming.

) in anamaste Maryon
Back to top

IP Logged

Carol9thhouse
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #24 - on: 21.12.2010 at 11:18 [UT] »8th gOF, then hD. I lost my grandpa at 7 years but didn't have my others go til i was 35 / 39 , with one
left. I had dreams about the two before I was told they'd gone.
At present I'm working toward buying a home with my boyf, who has bB in the 8th. Since I've been with him
I feel supported in my efforts to sort my own finances out - finally got some decent money saved.
Posts: 1344

my O will be hit by t O, so it will be interesting to see what happens. G has hit midpoint between O and F it has been more about supporting my boyf as he has gone through a tough time.
Amused, this is a very 8th house relationship - he was married and has baggage. It is interesting to 'listen intomyself ' and what comes up for me in terms of various frustrations about what he does or doesn't do according
to what happened with his wife.

Back to top
IP Logged
MialiseMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #25 - on: 21.12.2010 at 12:08 [UT] »Quote from ~ Angel Feather ~ on 19.12.2010 at 16:01 [UT]:
Very interesting.
I haveG and A at 25 and 26 degrees in b in my 8th and I must say that I do have an intense fear/phobia of death. I put it down toalmost dying three times. Once when I was born (cord around my neck) and the other twice of choking (on food).

Posts: 660
Gender:

The other thing she mentions is people with signs in the 8th experience death of someone close to them at young age. This is definitelybang on again for me. My brother, mother, grandparents and also friends.
I would also say that I am a very compassionate person and tend to put others before myself. In the past I have also suffered withdepression, so that article is definitely spot on for me.

Angel,
thats interesting - I have G in 8th (m SN) and when I was born I too had cord around my neckI did experience death of someone close at young age - my grandparents, but I think this kind of experience(grandparents dying) had most of my friends too, because grandparents were in their 60s and 70s when wewere kids. My mother died when I was 24, but I am not sure is that considered to be young age

Back to top

IP Logged

Britany Bryant
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #26 - on: 21.12.2010 at 13:06 [UT] »i have my sun and venus in 8 with a scorp rise and a cancerian mars in 9.....shit gets deep on my side of theworld lol. i mean i feel like my mind is a bottomless pit of sensitivity and intuition. i would also love to addthat at the age of six my mother murdered my two younger brothers...well tried to, the middle child survived 9brain surgerys only to actually die from a drowning accident at the age of 15...i lived in a mildly abusive homewith my fathers parents as he was a neglectful drunk and i feel like my life takes ridiculous amount of
directions...oh my how i can relate to that article.the eigth house most definitely gave me my gifts and i mostdefinitely see and feel truth alot of the time!!!!!
Posts: 28
Gender:Back to top

astro_w2at_01_britany_hp_35298_9189_001.gif(attachment deleted)
IP Loggeda chair

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #27 - on: 21.12.2010 at 15:05 [UT] »Mialise, did you read my post? Does Saturn happen to be making a quincunx to the ASC?

Back to top

IP Logged

MialiseMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #28 - on: 21.12.2010 at 15:12 [UT] »Hi Britany,
I am sorry that you have such a mother. Is she still alive? Are you in contact? Leo is on our MC , ruler A, that
Posts: 660
Gender:does make n to IO, but also nice asects to B, F and ASC. MC and moon is representative of a mother.
Your moon also has nice aspect to F, that is conjunction.
Its strange to see such a nice aspect and learn that mother is actually if I may say such a horrible person.
Sometimes it makes me wander about the validity of astro interpretations.
My father also has a BmF and nice aspects to it and you would think his mother is larger than life, generous
with her emotions, but in fact my father was very detached from his mother because her favouritism of otherbrother and sister was very extreme to the point that she neglected my father. As a result he is also emotionallycrippled.
On the other hand there is for example Angelina Jolie with BoG and if I remember no easy aspect to B. You
would think with this aspect she would be detached from her mother because of feeling rejected from her. But
in so many interviews she talked about her mom as someone that she received support from, someone thatgives her strength and a lot of love. Angelina herself is now it seems great mom herself, turning this hard
aspect somehow to her advantage.
Astrology is a funny science (or art) that I still cannot grasp
Sorry I took the thread away from 8th house.

Back to top
IP Logged
MialiseMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #29 - on: 21.12.2010 at 15:14 [UT] »Quote from a chair on 21.12.2010 at 15:05 [UT]:
Mialise, did you read my post? Does Saturn happen to be making a quincunx to the ASC?

Hi,
Posts: 660
Gender:Saturn is making p to ASC
I tend to wear scarves around my neck almost all the time, no metter is it summer or winter. And when I start
to feel cold , my neck is the first place I cover

Back to top

IP LoggedLynneEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #30 - on: 21.12.2010 at 15:36 [UT] »Mialise, I can see a lot in Brittany's chart that reflects her awful experience. (Brittany I'm so sorry you had togo through that).
Pluto in it's own sign exactly conjunct the ascendant would alert me immediately to intense life experiences,and in this case quite extreme. It's also widely opposing B. Which is at a critical degree of Aries, a sign
associated with violence/aggression. With Jupiter close by to exaggerate that. Jupiter squares E in d, the signof the mother, and Mars is conjunct C which rules siblings.

EC inconjuncts GO for something shockingly bad, and Saturn rules the 3rd house of siblings while O rules
the 4th of home and upbringing. Neptune, which dissolves in the most confusing way is also there on the cuspof the 3rd.
Gemini (siblings) rules the 8th house of death, and N, the wound we always carry, is there, and opposes thatshocking O/G.
Brittany also has her A at a critical degree of Gemini (more about siblings) and opposes the exact midpoint of
O/I.
So almost every point in the chart contributes to this awful event and it's impact on her.
Having said that, I would never in a million years have gleaned that from her chart without prior knowledge,
although I think the sibling/loss theme would have stood out somewhat....so yes! astrology is a funnyscience/art.

Back to top
IP Logged
MialiseMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #31 - on: 21.12.2010 at 15:49 [UT] »Thank you Lynne for interpreting the chart and clearifying. So I still have so much to learn
Fm one of luminaries I tend to think it is luck. There is so much more to learn. Thanks

whenever I see

Posts: 660
Gender:Back to top

IP Loggeda chair
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #32 - on: 21.12.2010 at 15:56 [UT] »Perhaps the BmF indicates a mother who feels like she can get away with anything.

Back to top
IP Logged
Stormlaughter

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #33 - on: 22.12.2010 at 04:46 [UT] »I'm a Sag Sun in 8th, Scorpio Moon, Taurus Asc with Venus conj MC in 10th.
I just met a Sun/Pluto conj man.
I don't believe I'll ever be the same again.
Posts: 518
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

KateM12
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #34 - on: 26.12.2010 at 19:37 [UT] »I have G jmFk in 8H. F rules 7H. I am a psychotherapist (there are other indications for this, such as
NmMC in lnJf in 4H). I lead peer groups in a prison setting (I think the FG conjuction is indicative).
regarding personal relationships, they have been quite transformative of my personality. They have helped me
grow and evolve, though the experiences were not always pleasant. And always there was someone older next
to me. Vertex in h at the end of 5H probably has something to do with this as well.

Posts: 908
Gender:Back to top
IP LoggedMs. Miranda

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #35 - on: 26.12.2010 at 21:12 [UT] »Quote from Stormlaughter on 22.12.2010 at 04:46 [UT]:
I'm a Sag Sun in 8th, Scorpio Moon, Taurus Asc with Venus conj MC in 10th.
I just met a Sun/Pluto conj man.
I don't believe I'll ever be the same again.

You said a mouthfull! I'm a AFmeH8... I've been scarred by several h men, but I attract them like flies...
Until I fell HARD and deeply for them and for a moment, I felt like I was "light." I'd get my "confidence" backPosts: 3684
Gender:and some how my Sag AC steps on their delicate feelings in some clod-hopping way or my 8th house gets
overly needy or clingy (which may be my G helping out as well), and they run for the hills, and I'm left there
licking my wounds of abandonment. I don't know any strong 8th housers that don't deal with a level of feelinglike an orphaned child, loneliness and dealing with being a little "morose", as someone so eloquently put it.
I think it was in another post that someone listed a poem that says that Scorpio is given the gift to see into
man's hearts, but never speak of it to them. And in a way, I can relate to this as the deeper truth of life, as we
see it, scares the general population, and speaking on matter that get very Plutonian or 8th house, runs one up
against the reality that the audience for such conversations progressively shrinks... adding to the feeling of
being different.
Those with 8th house planets (especially Sun or Moon) tend to be rather morose and "heavy" when young but
get lighter with age (I have Sun 8th natally). They also tend to get rather fearless after plumbing throughnumerous phobias and obsessions in their youth (other things considered, of course).

Getting intimate with all the deeper phobias, fears and compulsions is absolutely vital to acquiring that"lightness of being" an 8th houser has waiting for them as they progress through life. I am fearless about it
myself relishing the day when I feel transmuted from that heavy leaden weight of the world on one's shoulders
into the buoyancy of golden age. I think that is primarily why I believe that I will life a long life. I perhaps need
all that time to transmute.
Back to top

IP Logged

SP1CA
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #36 - on: 26.12.2010 at 23:04 [UT] »A in 8th I faced the death 2 or 3 times, I guessnothing to worry about

Posts: 341
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged
Salvia Divinorum

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #37 - on: 27.12.2010 at 00:30 [UT] »I'm an eight house B, D and N. And I was formed as a psychiatrist. Now I want to be a Physical Therapist.
All the time I'm thinking either about death, fear and pain or intimate relationships. I think that I'm interested
only in these matters.
Certainly, when I see somebody, I don't know how, but I know the "truth" about this person. I feel others
Posts: 67
Gender:persons emotions as if they were my own. It is compulsory and rather unpleaseant.
I've faced death several times being a doctor, but I can't say that the death of my relatives (grandmothers,
grandfathers) affected me too much. I don't know how I'll deal with other deaths, I feel myself scared only
thinking about this.
I can't say that I have much to deal with others properties.

Back to top

IP Logged

SP1CA
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #38 - on: 27.12.2010 at 17:47 [UT] »Quote from Salvia Divinorum on 27.12.2010 at 00:30 [UT]:

Certainly, when I see somebody, I don't know how, but I know the "truth" about this person. I feel others persons emotions as if they
were my own.

same here XD

Posts: 341
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged
Lia11

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #39 - on: 27.12.2010 at 18:31 [UT] »Quote from SP1CA on 27.12.2010 at 17:47 [UT]:
Quote from Salvia Divinorum on 27.12.2010 at 00:30 [UT]:

Certainly, when I see somebody, I don't know how, but I know the "truth" about this person. I feel others persons
emotions as if they were my own.
same here XD

Posts: 195

This is a h energy which is the natural ruler of 8th house. I don't have 8th house planets but a lot of h andfeel the same way.
A house is about so many things! 8th is also about spiritual values, as opposed to the 2nd house emphasis on
material values. So if people aren't 'into' death stuff with planets in the 8th I explore whether they makespiritual values a priority in their lives.
Back to top

IP Logged

Ghost
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #40 - on: 27.12.2010 at 18:38 [UT] »Quote from Lia11 on 27.12.2010 at 18:31 [UT]:
Quote from SP1CA on 27.12.2010 at 17:47 [UT]:
Quote from Salvia Divinorum on 27.12.2010 at 00:30 [UT]:

Certainly, when I see somebody, I don't know how, but I know the "truth" about this person. I feel others
persons emotions as if they were my own.
same here XD

This is ah energy which is the natural ruler of 8th house. I don't have 8th house planets but a lot of h and feel the same way.

A house is about so many things! 8th is also about spiritual values, as opposed to the 2nd house emphasis on material values. So if people
aren't 'into' death stuff with planets in the 8th I explore whether they make spiritual values a priority in their lives.

I have four planets in the eighth house. I agree with those who say it gives you the ability to read people reallywell.
Lia11 - I thought spirituality was more ninth house?
Back to top
IP Logged
Lia11

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #41 - on: 27.12.2010 at 18:43 [UT] »Lia11 - I thought spirituality was more ninth house? [/quote]Yes, in terms of the philosophy of spirituality, but the 8th is about making it an actual practice, that they will beinterested in doing the depths, not just talking about them. As others have said in this thread, not into
superficial stuff.
Posts: 195

Sometimes I find it useful to understand houses in terms of their opposites. So the 8th house is everything the
2nd house isn't, ie, spirit v matter.
Back to top

IP Logged

GhostEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #42 - on: 27.12.2010 at 18:48 [UT] »Quote from Lia11 on 27.12.2010 at 18:43 [UT]:
Lia11 - I thought spirituality was more ninth house?

Yes, in terms of the philosophy of spirituality, but the 8th is about making it an actual practice, that they will beinterested in doing the depths, not just talking about them. As others have said in this thread, not into
superficial stuff.
Sometimes I find it useful to understand houses in terms of their opposites. So the 8th house is everything the
2nd house isn't, ie, spirit v matter. [/quote]This is the first time I've ever read that. Usually I see spirituality, religion, philosophy, higher education, allassociated with the ninth, and death and sex associated with the eighth. Although, I've seen occultism linked tothe eighth I think, not sure.
Back to top
IP Logged
Calanthe Uigenna

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #43 - on: 27.12.2010 at 19:04 [UT] »I think eighth house is a more intuitive form of spirituality. It's more mystical. Ninth house is more idealogical.
I have B in the eighth, and I'm very occult, so that's true what you've heard. I have very powerful, occult
dreams.

Posts: 155
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

Lia11
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #44 - on: 27.12.2010 at 19:43 [UT] »Quote from Calanthe Uigenna on 27.12.2010 at 19:04 [UT]:
I think eighth house is a more intuitive form of spirituality. It's more mystical. Ninth house is more idealogical.

well said.
Posts: 195

Back to top
IP Logged
Ghost

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #45 - on: 27.12.2010 at 19:45 [UT] »Quote from Calanthe Uigenna on 27.12.2010 at 19:04 [UT]:
I think eighth house is a more intuitive form of spirituality. It's more mystical. Ninth house is more idealogical. I have

B in the eighth,

and I'm very occult, so that's true what you've heard. I have very powerful, occult dreams.

But if we're talking mystical/mystic type stuff, wouldn't that be linked to Neptune/Pisces/the 12th house?
*confused*
Back to top

IP LoggedLia11
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #46 - on: 27.12.2010 at 20:09 [UT] »Quote from Ghost on 27.12.2010 at 19:45 [UT]:
Quote from Calanthe Uigenna on 27.12.2010 at 19:04 [UT]:
I think eighth house is a more intuitive form of spirituality. It's more mystical. Ninth house is more idealogical. I haveBin the eighth, and I'm very occult, so that's true what you've heard. I have very powerful, occult dreams.

But if we're talking mystical/mystic type stuff, wouldn't that be linked to Neptune/Pisces/the 12th house?

Posts: 195

good question. 12th house is about merging with something bigger than oneself. no boundaries, no separation.
in the 8th house there is still an individual practicing spirituality. also 12th house is in the unconscious topeople with planets there find it difficult to access them through conscious means. whereas 8th house isconscious, but deep. as you've brough up Pisces, it's the difference between h and l.
Back to top
IP Logged
Ghost

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #47 - on: 27.12.2010 at 20:59 [UT] »Quote from Lia11 on 27.12.2010 at 20:09 [UT]:
Quote from Ghost on 27.12.2010 at 19:45 [UT]:
Quote from Calanthe Uigenna on 27.12.2010 at 19:04 [UT]:
I think eighth house is a more intuitive form of spirituality. It's more mystical. Ninth house is more
idealogical. I have

B in the eighth, and I'm very occult, so that's true what you've heard. I have very

powerful, occult dreams.

But if we're talking mystical/mystic type stuff, wouldn't that be linked to Neptune/Pisces/the 12th house?

good question. 12th house is about merging with something bigger than oneself. no boundaries, no separation. in the 8th house there is
still an individual practicing spirituality. also 12th house is in the unconscious to people with planets there find it difficult to access themthrough conscious means. whereas 8th house is conscious, but deep. as you've brough up Pisces, it's the difference between

h and l.

Now....I'm even more confused. Nevermind lol.
Back to top

IP Logged

CalantheUigenna

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #48 - on: 27.12.2010 at 21:19 [UT] »MemberQuote from Ghost on 27.12.2010 at 19:45 [UT]:
But if we're talking mystical/mystic type stuff, wouldn't that be linked to Neptune/Pisces/the 12th house?
*confused*

yes, those are also mystical spiritual, but when it comes to the eighth house you want to think darker. The
eighth house has a lot to do with death and transformation, and that type of spirituality is linked up with those
two things. "Occult" is the best keword for the eighth house, "Mystical" for the twelth, and "Philisophical" for the
ninth.

Posts: 155
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th hZappoIIEx Member« Reply #49 - on: 27.12.2010 at 21:55 [UT] »The mistaken linking of signs and houses is sure making a muddle of things. It's one of the worst things tohave happened in more recent astrology. Pisces and the 12th house are not the same.
The 9th house is plenty spiritual and is the place to look for such matters. In ancient astrology it was the joyof the Sun and was called the House of the God. The 3rd house, in contrast, was the Joy of the Moon and wascalled the House of the Goddess. And yes, many centuries ago the 3rd also had significations of religion. Thatappears to have been dropped, but by the 17th century you do find the 3rd to signify non-conventional sects
and heretical religious beliefs.
Spiritual and psychological development was looked for with the solar Lot of Spirit, whereas the happenings offate, health and fortune in the daily life was looked for with the lunar Lot of Fortune. The two lots arecounterparts using the Asc, Sun & Moon.

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

The 8th house was anciently called the Idle Place and was the house of fears. Well, fears freeze us in one spot,
do they not?
The 8th house does not aspect the Asc, which is why it has such an unfavorable traditional reputation. The Asc
is where the action is, where the chart native as energy and body is signified. Houses that don't aspect the Asc
don't work with or for the Asc. The 12th also doesn't aspect the Asc, nor does the 6th (the house of sickness).
Those are the 3 houses that take something from us or inhibit us in some way.
'Occult' means covered up, hidden, concealed. It's not something we go toward, but a state we try to emerge
from and leave behind.
The 8th is not the house of transformation. Transformation comes after the 8th house death and state of
fearfulness.
The 8th house signifies fearful states that inhibit growth and development, states that we want to leave behindso that we can again get ourselves going and flowing. The 8th is what we need to emerge from. FOR
TRANSFORMATION AND SPIRITUAL/PSYCHOLOGY GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT LOOK TO THE 1ST AND 9TH
HOUSES.* The 9th just happens (?) to aspect the 1st with a smooth-flowing trine.

* And the Sun, its condition, placement and aspects. Use the solar Lot of Spirit if you are so inclined.
Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #50 - on: 27.12.2010 at 22:27 [UT] »I've a strong 8th and 9th house establishment of planets in my chart, so I can speak a little bit about thedifferences as I experience them. I'm going to try and take a stab at this for those who are confused between 8,
9 and 12th houses... I've got a blend of the two houses and they both are very powerfully inhabited in mychart, so I can understand some of the differentiating aspects of my own experiences and yet they also blend...
I've got d ruling my 8th, Saturn in my 4th, and h ruling my 12th house.
The 4th house is finding God through the experience of family. It is the birth experience, being born into one,and giving birth to one. Furthermore, the 4th house has to do it through how we take on what we are given,through genetics, miasms, family baggage, heirloom dynamics and what we choose to do with that.

Posts: 3684
Gender:

The 8th house is finding God through the experience of deep one on one relationship. It is the experience ofGod power of transformation. 8th housers, I find can be lonelier souls than a 12th houser, because on somelevel the two intuitively understand their deeper purpose. An 8th housers knows that she/he is supposed tocommune with another, while a 12th housers understands their communion is a solitary experience. The 8thhouse is touching the void through one's exploration of self and relationship to the divine in how you build a
relationship to your own personal power through another. It is a space between the spaces of moments we calltime. 8th housers touch God through their union with another, overcoming the fear of letting people knowwhat it is that they cherish most, as 8th housers, as Scorpios, feel that if one speaks what one desires most inlife, that it will be leveraged against them, or taken away. Communion is very scary and requires enormous
personal power. To develop the ability to move beyond the earthly plane of the 4th house experience of coming
into one's physical body, and then transcending it without leaving it, as a 12th housers would. That is why
union is so vital to the 8th house experience. To know that the path to developing communion relies upontrusting self about another is why the psychology of all the things that keep us from connecting with others
comes up for inspection. Scorpio and 8th house KNOWS the nature of man, warts and all, and he/she is afraid
to be harmed in the giving up and surrender. There is a fear of death here as much as a surrender to it.
Physically an 8th houser would sooner die than to surrender their hearts, bodies and minds completely toanother. It has no problem with God, as much as how to work/see God through another person. It is achallenge to be invested in the development of a deeper truth about self in that all that we see outsideourselves is a reflection of what we possess inside. So we see to manipulate that which we don't like to look at
or experience in another as a way to avoid communion. But it MUST be done. It is, in itself, the Holy Grailexperience of the house. That one deep union with another, to know that giving up self to another, without
sacrificing ones power, is what transforms you. It is the house of the Alchemist. Ever notice how the 9th housetakes the wand of this wisdom? It has a spiritual fearlessness that Scorpio is only beginning to learn.
The 9th house is the house of the Scholar/philosopher/Self mastery. It is that house where once we understandour true nature, that we take that learning and teach it, study it, apply it on a higher education level, develop aphilosophy or religion or a paradigm of thinking about what we've learned, and so on... The 9th house is not as"wounded" as the 4th, 8th and 12th houses, in that there is an infusion of fire that steams this house forward
in its greater purpose which is to develop self mastery through application and continued learning andrefinement of ones experiences of religion, mystical experiences and the magic of life. The 9th house tests
theories, is a scientist, a researcher, teacher and preacher and often capable of great personal impartiality, andyet the shadow can be a dogmatism until their theories and religion prove constricting or self sabotaging. Thenit busts out of its self made box and tries another tack... It is the eternal navigator. The 9th house is perhaps
more thinking and perceptive. If I were to differentiate between the two. The water houses are far more
emotional and feeling and etheric fluid.
The 12th house is finding God through being alone. It's a solitary experience, one that cusps both the physicaland spiritual plane. It is about communion with God/Universe directly. It is the house of the hermit, the savior,
the priest... It is personal, private, secluded, and hermetic. It is the house of the heretic, perhaps. Itss where
you go one on one with your sense of confinement in the human experience and invoke the ability to leave yourbody literally, figuratively, psychologically, or through pray and meditation as a means to connect with theinfinite in a way that is done in a manner that is experienced solely, and perhaps in a lonely manner...

Back to top
IP Loggedpapalina

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #51 - on: 27.12.2010 at 23:16 [UT] »I have DmK in 8th house nG in 2nd and also N in 8th (D is asc ruler and in b)
I have told my experiences in other threads before but this thread seems more involved about them.
I have commited suicide for twice. Under significant transits to my N K D. Death is like my defense, I'm
dreaming of dying for a long time. First for escaping my own pain. Secondly, I can't take the pain of the otherpeople in the world. I'm living them in my body everyday. So I don't want to see or live them anymore. (butthis is not a scorpio subject, scorpio can feel intense but can't feel them exactly in her body, this is a neptune
feeling)
So my passion for death stays there but I can say I'm afraid of dying, too. I also try to kill someone when I wasadolescent, I lost my control after years of being bullied by someone in the school. Jupiter was in conjunct tomy 8th house N
In years I heal myself, I was better. In 2008 Saturn trined my Venus and NN. I found myself in astrology courseand energy works. I saw very interesting dreams about my past and my family roots.(Venus is also in
connection to my 4th house) I worked on my family roots for healing. And the problem I was trying to solve
was also about the death of a family member. (8th house, others, death, dreams, curses, anything you want
) I won't tell it long. I just have an experience like that. After a while I start to lose my control, and reality so I
had to stop the works. But I'm still planning to go on.
For me 8th house people certainly love psychology because they love transforming themselves and thinking
about themselves. It's about finding the mysteries of our mind and soul.
Back to top

IP Logged~LeelaEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #52 - on: 27.12.2010 at 23:28 [UT] »I have Neptune in Scorpio in the 8th. I almost drowned 3 times as a child. Neptune is also the ruler of my NN(which is in l 12H) so my spiritual journey has largely been through discovering the shadow in myself, anduncovering what is hidden.
Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #53 - on: 28.12.2010 at 00:01 [UT] »Ms. Miranda,
All the houses appear to be ways of “finding God”. Your astrology is completely religious. So, then, instead offinding God through 2nd house money, 3rd house email, and 5th house dinner-and-a-show, why not just stickwith my suggestion of the 1st and 9th? Finding God as the 1st house personal vitality, body and mind flowing
smoothly with 9th house religion, philosophy and astrology? It's so much simpler. Money, email, andentertainment can then exist for what they are. No need to make astrology so earnestly spiritual.

Quote:The 4th house is finding God through the experience of family. It is the birth experience . . . .

You aren't going to find many who agree with you. The birth experience has always been a 1st house matter.
Thus, Saturn conjunct the Asc degree can indicate problems during the birth process.
We commonly read now that the early life is associated with the 4th house, the family. I've been surprised tolearn that the 1st was traditionally said to not only show the birth, but the early childhood experience. The 4thhouse is the family – those other people with whom we are associated, and the heritage we are born into. But
we as individual developing children are represented by the 1st. The all-important Asc signifies the chartnative. The 4th shows the home/family environment and heritage that that child is associated with.

Quote:
The water houses are far more emotional and feeling and etheric fluid.

Sorry, but that sign/house thing again. There can only be water houses if water signs have been assigned tothem, which, once again, is a fairly recent development. Yet another reminder: There are many of us who
have learned the fallacy of it and are finished with its confusion. I'm bringing this up again because many
replies in this thread superbly show the chaos and confusion it all leads to, with the 4th, 8th, and 12th houses
becoming strangely vague, blurred and somehow 'spiritual'. This thread alone is enough to show the mess thesign/house thing has created.
Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #54 - on: 28.12.2010 at 00:31 [UT] »You interpretation of what you think my astrology is is nothing more than your own limited abilities tointerpret something that you are conflicted about. Otherwise, you would have not had the compulsion to
defend or prove anything.
As for birth... Speaking as a woman who has given birth, I can understand how you, as a man, you can neverfully comprehend or know what it is like to GIVE birth, and be in the presence of life coming through you. The
womb is our first physical home. It's not 1st house. It's 4th.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged
Ghost

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #55 - on: 28.12.2010 at 00:31 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 00:01 [UT]:
Ms. Miranda,
All the houses appear to be ways of “finding God”. Your astrology is completely religious. So, then, instead of finding God through 2nd
house money, 3rd house email, and 5th house dinner-and-a-show, why not just stick with my suggestion of the 1st and 9th? Finding God
as the 1st house personal vitality, body and mind flowing smoothly with 9th house religion, philosophy and astrology? It's so much simpler.
Money, email, and entertainment can then exist for what they are. No need to make astrology so earnestly spiritual.

Quote:The 4th house is finding God through the experience of family. It is the birth experience . . . .

You aren't going to find many who agree with you. The birth experience has always been a 1st house matter. Thus, Saturn conjunct the Asc
degree can indicate problems during the birth process.
We commonly read now that the early life is associated with the 4th house, the family. I've been surprised to learn that the 1st wastraditionally said to not only show the birth, but the early childhood experience. The 4th house is the family – those other people withwhom we are associated, and the heritage we are born into. But we as individual developing children are represented by the 1st. The allimportant Asc signifies the chart native. The 4th shows the home/family environment and heritage that that child is associated with.

Quote:
The water houses are far more emotional and feeling and etheric fluid.

Sorry, but that sign/house thing again. There can only be water houses if water signs have been assigned to them, which, once again, is afairly recent development. Yet another reminder: There are many of us who have learned the fallacy of it and are finished with its

confusion. I'm bringing this up again because many replies in this thread superbly show the chaos and confusion it all leads to, with the4th, 8th, and 12th houses becoming strangely vague, blurred and somehow 'spiritual'. This thread alone is enough to show the mess thesign/house thing has created.

...Maybe this is like the sidereal/tropical debate, where really both systems are valid and there really is nowrong answer, it's a matter of personal preference.
Back to top

IP Logged

viola magmar
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #56 - on: 28.12.2010 at 07:55 [UT] »BTW,death "skipped" me several times.
best wishes to all, violalaura
ghost

Posts: 7554
Gender:"Sex", lived at its deepest, is a way of dying, giving oneself up, not only a physical union but a contact with theuniverse so... spirituality and that's a reason why so many fear sex.
ciao

Back to top
IP Logged

awareness

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #57 - on: 28.12.2010 at 09:59 [UT] »Thanks for all interesting posts responding on the 8th house planets!
Reading through them, I notice there are several mentioning death, reflections about what death has ment in
Posts: 148

their lives.
In an 8th house manner

I feel the need to reflect on what I think "death" means for the 8th house person ismore the transformative aspects of experiences with death for an 8th house person.
What i mean is you might loose someone dear to you, but the deathexperience might not be a transformativeone.
Am I right?
And in my case, with the A,C,E in the 8th house I also find it interesting the 8th house issue sharedproperty, joint finances, and the like. Its certainly been an issue in my life, as I do projects financed by thestate, community (other peoples money) and I will in time inherit family fortune....
Best wishes for you all!

Back to top

IP Logged

awareness
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #58 - on: 28.12.2010 at 10:04 [UT] »Sorry!
The last post on the thread discussing the transformative about death did not show when I read through thethread before my last post. I see a lot of interesting stuff on the transformative about deathexperience and 8th

Posts: 148

house here....
So it has already been an in depth discussion on that issue.

Back to top
IP Logged
AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #59 - on: 28.12.2010 at 10:25 [UT] »House-related threads always show what's fundamentally wrong with atomising the house system. If a househas a ruler, and the ruler is [pick something: a sign, a planet] you will automatically start to make associations
between the ruler of the house and what goes on in the house. What goes wrong with this process is when we
become increasingly reductive about the house's meaning. Meaning should be determined by the individual, it
seems to me (such is the wonderment of freedom of thought and action post-Enlightenment! Yay for Francis
Bacon! Yay for John Locke! Yay for Thomas Paine!).
Therefore, the 8th house, ruled by h, since we're stuck with rulers, apparently, and co-dominated by E andJ, becomes a blend of events and energies, most of which post-post-modernists will redefine as times change,and people's perceptions and needs change. At this time in human history, we have a need to try to define ourexistences along the binary axis of scientific versus religious or spiritual understanding of phenomena. It wasn't
always like this, and thoughts about what is important will, no doubt, change again, perhaps during the courseof our lifetimes. There's always a meta-narrative, or a meta-discussion, that underlies what we talk about; rightnow it's the 'struggle' between science and faith, which are pitted against one another in what I believe is afalse binary, the typical black-and-white reductive 'us vs. them' style that gets us nowhere, but is familiar
territory.
Although this is not necessarily the thread to get into this, I would argue that false binaries or false
dichotomies do the most damage in human society, because most people are used to the idea that when you
argue, you must, of necessity, take a 'side'; one side must be right, the other must be wrong, and be proved tobe so. This is not productive, but it is the outmoded way of looking at argumentation. Today's argumentation
seeks consensus; we all need to get along with each other a lot better than we did in the days of yore, since war
is becoming passé.
Ultimately, houses are a lot of fun to discuss because rulerships, although restrictive and limiting when taken
too literally, provide structure and guidelines, without being necessarily didactic; in other words, there's room,
in today's world, for a variety of thoughts—it's part of the post-postmodern way of thinking. In pre-modern
and early modern times, when only a few life options were possible, simple, non-psychological interpretations
were desirable. Nowadays, however, the 8th house is the most likely 'place' in the astrological chart whereanyone is going to automatically look for psychological import in the personal (rather than the mundane) chart.

Back to top

IP LoggedLibra ladyMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #60 - on: 28.12.2010 at 11:25 [UT] »Hi allA very interesting in depth thread
Miss Miranda your explanation of the 8th house and 4th, 9th, 12th is beautifully put and I agree with it
Posts: 756

wholeheartedly. Thank you
I read the original article posted and could relate to everything written. I have 8th house J m sth node e oh B, o b 4th house FRx and opp K. 8th house also q I, D and p E plus s Asc.
There is very little my 8th house J sth node don't touch in my chart and I could write a book on personal
experiences of 8th house matters. Things that would pale a horror movie in comparison. What doesn't kill you
makes you stronger
Zappoo11

You may have 8th house planets but perhaps you have not reached an age to experience the depths of learningand teaching the 8th house has in store for you. I hope when those lessons do come to you that you have thestrength to cope with them.
From the tone of your posts you seem to be in strong denial on some level and just wanting to discredit
others views and opinions. Is life not about evolving and developing into something more than we were whenborn? Do we not come back to the physical plane to work out previous karma? both good and bad? Are we notborn into families we have karmic links to? Are the 4th 8th and 12th houses not the karmic houses that show
the issues we wish to work on or rectify? do they not show past life experiences that need to be resolved?
You obviously have very stong beliefs of your own on houses and religion, I am wondering why you would
bother reading this thread or posting on it when your views are obviously out of sync with the views andopinions of others here wishing to share 8th house experiences. Perhaps you project 8th house power onto
others as you have yet to learn how toclaim and harness that personal power and use it for good.
Instead of trying to divert the thread off course, perhaps it would be more beneficial if you start a thread ofyour own to debate the relevance of connection between houses and whether the supposed astrology signs that
equal that house influence them at all, it would give you a broader picture and some idea of what percentage ofastrologers share your views. It could be a very informative and lively discussion for many that are interested
in debating the issue.

Regards
Libra lady
Back to top
IP Logged
AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #61 - on: 28.12.2010 at 12:02 [UT] »That's interesting, Libra Lady; I got the impression Mr. Zappoo (sic) is quite old.

Like, even older than me,

and that's saying something.

Back to top

IP Logged~LeelaEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #62 - on: 28.12.2010 at 15:07 [UT] »My impression of some of the posts here is that for some people spirituality is compartmentalized into certain
segments (houses) of life, while for others it is all pervasive (the crux of life itself) and is experienced throughevery arena (houses), in different ways. Perhaps the difference lies in seeing oneself as either (1) a person
having a spiritual experience, or (2) a spirit having a personal experience.
Back to top
IP LoggedCalanthe Uigenna

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #63 - on: 28.12.2010 at 16:24 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 27.12.2010 at 21:55 [UT]:The mistaken linking of signs and houses is sure making a muddle of things. It's one of the worst things to have happened in more recent
astrology.

I agree completely.

Quote from ZappoII on 27.12.2010 at 21:55 [UT]:'Occult' means covered up, hidden, concealed. It's not something we go toward, but a state we try to emerge from and leave behind.

Posts: 155
Gender:I'm afraid I don't agree with this. The occult is the pursuit of power as opposed to the pursuit of truth. The
eighth house is still attached to the idea of personal attainment, whereas the ninth house has to do with thepersuit of knowledge, and the tweflth house addresses the issues of spirit and one's personal relationship withthe divine, or one's realisation of divinity. Fear is definitely a part of the import of the eighth house, but it's not
the b all and end all. For me transformation enters into the eighth house when the aspirant wants to adapt
their circumstances to match with their own preferences. The Twelfth house indicates the aspirants wish totransform themselves in order to adapt to the immutable divine. That's my take on it.

Back to top

IP Logged

AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #64 - on: 28.12.2010 at 17:49 [UT] »This thread is starting to remind me of a group I'm a member of, which assigns colors to numbers. Now, forthose of you who are not familiar with this concept, synesthesia(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia ) is a fairly rare 'ability' to perceive numbers as having colors
and none of us who sees the number as a specific color sees the same color as the next person withsynesthesia. The thing is, though, you can argue to the end of tomorrow what that number's color "ought" tobe; everyone has a different take on their own personal reality. I see the number 1 as the shining graphite greyof highly polished metallic obsidian. No one else does, apparently. The number 4 is a bright, luminescent clover
green. Go figure.
Same will be true of what houses 'mean,' at least as they are defined by the people here.
Back to top
IP Logged~LeelaEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #65 - on: 28.12.2010 at 18:33 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 28.12.2010 at 17:49 [UT]:
I see the number 1 as the shining graphite grey of highly polished metallic obsidian.

now that's just crazy!
Back to top

IP Logged

a chairEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #66 - on: 28.12.2010 at 20:45 [UT] »I read the article for the first time. I actually think there was something to it even though I don't know if I
agree with the author's conclusions.
"The true lesson for them is to realize that death is just an illusion, a transition or a transformation.""If these individuals can begin to look at their experiences in this way, then they will start to feel an
unexplained happiness come over them."Also, I don't live life to the fullest. I am usually inhibited by fear.
At times I have seemed to have some sort of paranormal connection with the people around me and I haveassociated it with me simply having a true desire to connect to people in a way that is beyond "face value" after
all other sense of purpose is questioned.
I have the A&C in 8H lI've been speaking with my brother's girlfriend lately and she probably has an eighth house sun as well. I only
know the hour of her birth though. We are both interested in the occult. I also spoke about how sometimes I
try to cause problems just to prove to myself that I am stronger than them and she understood what I was
saying. I like to take a fear and blow it up and up until it looks like a giant, harry monster before I slay it.
That way I assure that it will never stand in my way again. I have read that this is an eighth house thing,intentionally bringing about crisis.
As for intimacy, I agree with someone else here who said that they didn't really get it when they were younger.
I tend to think that romance is a sort of magic that comes from inside. I don't understand why some people,
even myself, usually need it to have a basis in reality to enjoy it. Why must love be requited? I like to breakthat barrier. I like love more as an idea than a reality. However, I see how this perspective probably limits meand that I should gain new experiences.
Quote from ZappoII on 27.12.2010 at 21:55 [UT]:The 8th house does not aspect the Asc, which is why it has such an unfavorable traditional reputation. The Asc is where the action is,where the chart native as energy and body is signified. Houses that don't aspect the Asc don't work with or for the Asc. The 12th alsodoesn't aspect the Asc, nor does the 6th (the house of sickness). Those are the 3 houses that take something from us or inhibit us in someway.

That sounds similar to the logic behind the "void-of-course moon." This article questions the validity of thatidea though. The writer of the article uses eighth harmonic aspects. Eighth harmonics aren't much of a stretch
when you consider how many astrologers look at the quincunx and yod formation now. I don't like hisargument for why the 45° angle is important in astrology though.
http://www.khaldea.com/articles/voidofcoursemoon.shtml
Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #67 - on: 28.12.2010 at 22:07 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 28.12.2010 at 00:31 [UT]:
You interpretation of what you think my astrology is is nothing more than your own limited abilities to interpret

something that you are conflicted about. Otherwise, you would have not had the compulsion to
defend or prove anything.

You could use that against anyone around here who disagrees with you about anything. A handy tool – if yourgoal is only to always appear to be right.
I see now that your “finding God” was limited to the 3 so-called water houses. That's only ¼ of the houses.
I'm still not exactly sure what you were doing with or calling the 9th house, the traditional house of religion.

Quote:
As for birth... Speaking as a woman who has given birth, I can understand how you, as a man, you can never fully comprehend or knowwhat it is like to GIVE birth, and be in the presence of life coming through you. The womb is our first physical home. It's not 1st house.
It's 4th.

You're mixing up points of view here. First you start with the experience of the mother as life-giver, then you
shift over to the fetus and what it experiences as 'home'. I think you're tripping over supposed 4th house
Cancer/Moon, mother/womb ideas.
The natal chart has the chart native as its focus, not either parent. Before birth the fetus is still connected toand, in a sense, part of the mother. Astrology is interested in the person as a separate individual – that's when
the real adventure begins. That's 1st house material. The Sun rises in the east and a new day is born. A signof the zodiac is rising in the east when the child is born and that sign becomes symbolic and descriptive of thechild who is now freely breathing and moving in the world. The process of rising – sign or Sun – symbolizes
the process of birth. It's the beginning of life as an individual.

In reply #50 you wrote:
Quote:The 4th house is finding God through the experience of family. It is the birth experience, being born into one, and giving
birth to one.

No, it is not. That is the rising Sun birth experience of the 1st house – the Sun crossing the horizon from theunderworld and bringing its light with it. The 1st is the birth of the individual and his or her light ofconsciousness. The 1st is the child without reference to home or parents. That 1st house Sun/person can lookback at 4th house parents and family heritage he or she came from and forward to his or her future 10th houseachievements. Remember, the chart represents the slow clockwise turn of a dial, the diurnal motion.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #68 - on: 28.12.2010 at 22:44 [UT] »Quote from Libra lady on 28.12.2010 at 11:25 [UT]:Zappoo11
You may have 8th house planets but perhaps you have not reached an age to experience the depths of learning and teaching the 8th househas in store for you. I hope when those lessons do come to you that you have the strength to cope with them.

Dear Libra Lady,
You seem to feel that you have arrived and now understand things quite well.
Who are you to assume what 'lessons' have or haven't presented themselves to me? Isn't it possible that I
have already learned much from those lessons and it is from that experience that I speak?

Quote:Is life not about evolving and developing into something more than we were when born?

I was successfully potty trained, so I have evolved and developed.

Quote:
Do we not come back to the physical plane to work out previous karma?

Do we? Did everyone around here finally come to agreement concerning that?

Quote:
Are we not born into families we have karmic links to?

Are we?

Quote:
Are the 4th 8th and 12th houses not the karmic houses that show the issues we wish to work on or rectify? do they not show past life
experiences that need to be resolved?

You don't seem to get out of your familiar environment much. There is a very sizable group of astrologers who
would give you a strong 'No' to both questions. There are plenty of others who would say 'I don't know. It
really isn't important'.

Quote:You obviously have very stong beliefs of your own on houses and religion, I am wondering why you would bother reading this thread or
posting on it when your views are obviously out of sync with the views and opinions of others here wishing to share 8th house experiences.

Could it be that I offer a necessary alternative view based on centuries of the astrological experience of others?
What I've written comes from my 8th house experience and understanding. Am I wrong or out of line inwishing to share it? My views are out of sync, therefore I should go away?
You are much, much less enlightened and accepting than you want to believe. Do keep those lessons in mind.
Back to top
IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #69 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:03 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 22:44 [UT]:
Could it be that I offer a necessary alternative view based on centuries of the astrological experience of others?
What I've written comes from my 8th house experience and understanding. Am I wrong or out of line in wishing to share it? My views areout of sync, therefore I should go away?
You are much, much less enlightened and accepting than you want to believe. Do keep those lessons in mind.

I have neglected to read much of this thread assuming it was another impressionable battle royale between the
8th being the petit mort and/or the petit fort.
Anyway Zapp I had you down as 693 yrs old, may I be so bold as to recommend a tablespoon of coconut oil aday to keep the brain fresh and active.
I'm also putting your longeivity down to a fear of death so do you or do you not have 8 planets, 36 parts,
4,319 asteroids in this was last now 5th from last place?- for the record!
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #70 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:08 [UT] »[quote author=Mike N link=1292770701/60#69 date=1293577416]Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at
22:44 [UT]:
Could it be that I offer a necessary alternative view based on centuries of the astrological experience of others?

It was another way of saying "based on tradition". The T word gets some people all aflutter.
Back to top
IP Logged
vertexMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #71 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:13 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:08 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 22:44 [UT]:
Could it be that I offer a necessary alternative view based on centuries of the astrological experience ofothers?
Posts: 5575
Gender:

It was another way of saying "based on tradition". The T word gets some people all aflutter.

Actually, these revived Medieval or Hellenistic astrological models were not tested for validity in the modern
society for centuries. Project Hindsight was started in the mid-90s, that is the mid-1990s.
Back to top

IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #72 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:26 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:08 [UT]:
It was another way of saying "based on tradition". The T word gets some people all aflutter.

That's a good point. As it is your own peculiar understanding of 'tradition' , I recommend 2 tablespoons a day.

Note I could have said an enema as well but that would be below the waist!
I am citing Culpepper's
thoughts on how to 'treat' the Lot of Gluttony (E + F - B) reverse for day births, in the 8th here!
Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #73 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:31 [UT] »Quote from vertex on 28.12.2010 at 23:13 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:08 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 22:44 [UT]:
Could it be that I offer a necessary alternative view based on centuries of the astrologicalexperience of others?

It was another way of saying "based on tradition". The T word gets some people all aflutter.

Actually, these revived Medieval or Hellenistic astrological models were not tested for validity in themodern society for centuries. Project Hindsight was started in the mid-90s, that is mid-1990s.

They were in full swing for about 1800 years, from the Hellenistic beginnings to the 17th century. But the
point I have made over and over is that everyone here is still using Hellenistic-Medieval astrology, it's just
fractured and incomplete. You are all not as modern as you think.
You use the ancient signs, Aries, Taurus,
Gemini . . . . . You have planetary rulers for those signs, and even in trying to assign Neptune to Cancer or any
sign for exaltation you are feeling the need to bring a modern planet into an ancient model. If any of you areworried about an upcoming Saturn opposition to a natal planet then you are being quite medieval in your belief
in the unpleasant indications of Saturn and oppositions. It's the hypocrisy of denying this and pretending that
we are now very modern and advanced that drives me batty and assures that I won't be going away any timesoon.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #74 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:32 [UT] »What is Mike talking about?

Back to top
IP Logged
Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #75 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:46 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:32 [UT]:
What is Mike talking about?

About 1600, is this too ''modern'' for you.?
As you know my astrology is pre-Hellenistic so I give these, a mere 400yrs ago, ideas a cursory glance!
Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #76 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:47 [UT] »Quote from ~Leela on 28.12.2010 at 18:33 [UT]:
Quote from Amused on 28.12.2010 at 17:49 [UT]:
I see the number 1 as the shining graphite grey of highly polished metallic obsidian.

now that's just crazy!

Posts: 3624

obsidian represents the ashes of the fire from which the the phoenix arises.

Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #77 - on: 28.12.2010 at 23:49 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 28.12.2010 at 23:46 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:32 [UT]:
What is Mike talking about?

About 1600, is this too ''modern'' for you.?
As you know my astrology is pre-Hellenistic so I give these, a mere 400yrs ago, ideas a cursory glance!

Are you drunk? Your thoughts aren't connecting smoothly.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #78 - on: 29.12.2010 at 00:10 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 28.12.2010 at 10:25 [UT]:House-related threads always show what's fundamentally wrong with atomising the house system. If a house has a ruler, andthe ruler is [pick something: a sign, a planet] you will automatically start to make associations
between the ruler of the house and what goes on in the house. What goes wrong with this process is when we
become increasingly reductive about the house's meaning. Meaning should be determined by the individual, it

seems to me (such is the wonderment of freedom of thought and action post-Enlightenment! Yay for Francis Bacon! Yay for John
Locke! Yay for Thomas Paine!).

Therefore, the 8th house, ruled by h, since we're stuck with rulers, apparently, and codominated by E and J, becomes a blend of events and energies, most of which post-post-modernists will redefine as times
change, and people's perceptions and needs change. At this time in human history, we have a need to try to define our existences along
the binary axis of scientific versus religious or spiritual understanding of phenomena. It wasn't always like this, and thoughts about what is
important will, no doubt, change again, perhaps during the course of our lifetimes. There's always a meta-narrative, or a meta-discussion,that underlies what we talk about; right now it's the 'struggle' between science and faith, which are pitted against one another in what I
believe is a false binary, the typical black-and-white reductive 'us vs. them' style that gets us nowhere, but is familiar territory.

If you live alone on an island you can assign any meaning you want to anything. If you live in a society andunderstand the need to communicate, then it will become evident to you that you don't have free reign in suchmatters. A realistic look is all it takes.

Yes, the mess of the Sign/house conflation. But it's made even worse when you say a sign 'rules' a houseinstead of simply calling a house the 'natural' house of a sign. Get away from the sign/house thing completely
and astrological life will start to make so much more sense.
In a particular chart signs are associated with the houses, with the domicile ruler of the sign acting as the houseruler. That is perfectly valid and is about as fundamental to chart delineation as it gets.

Quote:
Ultimately, houses are a lot of fun to discuss because rulerships, although restrictive and limiting when taken too literally, provide
structure and guidelines, without being necessarily didactic; in other words, there's room, in today's world, for a variety of thoughts—it'spart of the post-postmodern way of thinking. In pre-modern and early modern times, when only a few life options were possible, simple,
non-psychological interpretations were desirable. Nowadays, however, the 8th house is the most likely 'place' inthe astrological chart where anyone is going to automatically look for psychological import in the
personal (rather than the mundane) chart.

Wow! Do you have any idea who is out there, astrologically?
Most people would know to startelsewhere. You have skipped over, the Sun, Moon and Asc. Any 1st house planets, their condition and aspects
come way before the 8th house. The 8th does become important if the Sun, Moon or esp. the Asc ruler islocated there. Otherwise, it probably is low on the list of important factors.
Back to top
IP LoggedLibra ladyMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #79 - on: 29.12.2010 at 00:20 [UT] »Zappoo11

Posts: 756

You may have 8th house planets but perhaps you have not reached an age to experience the depths of learningand teaching the 8th house has in store for you. I hope when those lessons do come to you that you have thestrength to cope with them.
[/quote]Dear Libra Lady,
You seem to feel that you have arrived and now understand things quite well.
Who are you to assume what 'lessons' have or haven't presented themselves to me? Isn't it possible that I
have already learned much from those lessons and it is from that experience that I speak?

Dear Zappoo11.
Once again you are taking the thread off track but I will respond to your comments.
Firstly, I have lived through and experienced most 8th house experiences more than once including my own
violent death and return. I have learnt much and understand MYSELF very well. I have overcome the fears of
the 8th house and know the only fear is fear itself. The greatest gift I have had in life is my death experience.
I have MY truth. I do not feel any need to convince others of my beliefs and would never put anyone down or
try to discredit anyone elses beliefs. It is up to each of us to find our own truth. I hope to be growing andlearning until my last moments on earth. Life is like astrology, much to vast to ever know everything or every
experience.
I don't believe I did assume what lessons you had or had not learnt. If you are in fact speaking of YOUR
experiences of 8th house lessons then I do believe you have more 8th house stuff to come. You are coming
across as though you are on the attack, that your personal beliefs in astrology are the one and only way to view
it and attacking others for their views which they also hold true for themselves. Personally I have never comeacross any astrologer before that believes the first house is who we are. Perhaps you could refer us to thebranch of astrology that believes this. The Asc is what is on the Eastern horizon at birth, we do reflect that as
the face we show the world and it is often the way others percieve us but that doesn't make it who we are.
Is life not about evolving and developing into something more than we were when born?
I was successfully potty trained, so I have evolved and developed.

If you are happy with that level of evolvement I am happy for you

Quote:
Do we not come back to the physical plane to work out previous karma?

Do we? Did everyone around here finally come to agreement concerning that?

I must have missed the post on this thread that queried the matter. My own view, reinforced by my deathexperience and the honour of being with numerous others at the time of their passing is that we come to earth
for a purpose.
Quote:
Are we not born into families we have karmic links to?

Are we?

I definitely am, but once again your studies and looking at synastry charts may be the exception and you might
have found you don't have any connection to your family. If that is the case, I'm sure every astrologer on theforum would love to see the charts on another thread as they would be an extreme rarity.
Quote:
Are the 4th 8th and 12th houses not the karmic houses that show the issues we wish to work on or rectify? do they not show past life
experiences that need to be resolved?

You don't seem to get out of your familiar environment much. There is a very sizable group of astrologers
who would give you a strong 'No' to both questions. There are plenty of others who would say 'I don't know.
It really isn't important'.

I live my truth and walk my talk. What others do or don't believe is not my concern. Life is a personal journey
and we all have our paths to take to get to our destinations. Unlike you I do not feel a need to bash anyone
over the head with what I believe or what I have read some other astrologer believes. Even astrolgy evolves
and yes I would agree that with new methods and ways there are often valuable bits of relevant information
lost.

Quote:You obviously have very stong beliefs of your own on houses and religion, I am wondering why you would bother reading this thread or
posting on it when your views are obviously out of sync with the views and opinions of others here wishing to share 8th house experiences.

Could it be that I offer a necessary alternative view based on centuries of the astrological experience ofothers? What I've written comes from my 8th house experience and understanding. Am I wrong or out ofline in wishing to share it? My views are out of sync, therefore I should go away?

Hmm,necessary in whose view? Yours? based on.............. not your personal studies and research but theexperience of OTHERS. I'm sure if you re-read your posts, you will see that you are not sharing, you are
TELLING others that they are wrong and what they should believe or how they should percieve astrology. That

is YOUR view.
You are much, much less enlightened and accepting than you want to believe. Do keep those lessons inmind.

[/quote]Well, well, it appears you now want us to believe that YOU yourself are GOD and see and know all LOL LOL LOL
Thanks for the humour
Libra lady
Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #80 - on: 29.12.2010 at 00:22 [UT] »Quote:
I see now that your “finding God” was limited to the 3 so-called water houses.

I never said that.
Quote:
As for birth... Speaking as a woman who has given birth, I can understand how you, as a man, you can never fully comprehend or knowwhat it is like to GIVE birth, and be in the presence of life coming through you. The womb is our first physical home. It's not 1st house.
It's 4th.

Posts: 3684
Gender:

You're mixing up points of view here. First you start with the experience of the mother as lifegiver, then you shift over to the fetus and what it experiences as 'home'. I think you're tripping
over supposed 4th house Cancer/Moon, mother/womb ideas.

Is there a question in there? Because it appears you are the on who seems to be confused. They are
one in the same. This is simple biological fact, not some subjective debate. Think about this for a
moment... When a girl fetus is in the womb of her mother, she is already carrying in her ovaries theeggs that will become her children. Simple female reproductive facts. Females don't start making
eggs at 12 or 13... They already exist in utero.
So... where does life REALLY begin? At birth or is it always a continuum of the womb? I stand by myposition on this. The 4th house is the house of birth as I see it. The womb is where the continuum oflife always lives and sparks. Whether you are in it, or it is in you. Remember... it's about mother, notdad. Moon gives birth, not Mars.
Quote:The natal chart has the chart native as its focus, not either parent. Before birth the fetus is still connected to and, in a sense, part of themother. Astrology is interested in the person as a separate individual – that's when the real adventure begins. That's 1st house material.
The Sun rises in the east and a new day is born. A sign of the zodiac is rising in the east when the child is born and that sign becomessymbolic and descriptive of the child who is now freely breathing and moving in the world. The process of rising – sign or Sun – symbolizes
the process of birth. It's the beginning of life as an individual.

The chart carries everything... And things we don't even know it carries, as the universe is infinite
and there are celestial bodies at work that we are not even aware of. I believe, that it is possible that
there is a celestial body the represents every piece of code in our DNA, parts of our cells, and so on,just as signs govern body parts. Life is infinite, and the the true beginning and end are elusive, evento the stoic collective thoughts of astrologers that agree to agree on something that sounds plausible
and call it fact. I question everything at some point because its necessary.
You're looking at this in a linear fashion instead of the overlapping and comprehensive circuitry of
how energy moves around a chart. The energy circuit of charts is not circular, they light up in an
infinite number of places depending upon the transits, progressions and aspects that already exist.
The 1st house is the development of the cognitive experience, of developing ego, personality, health,attitudes, and image of Self... The PERSONA. Fetuses have no persona. They are life that alreadyexists in a continuum from the 8th house union of the parents It's not about birth, what you areborn into or what you give birth to. If Saturn transits a mother's AC during a pregnancy, then you
could just as easily say that Saturn constricts the health of the fetus. That is not the same as taking
life away or death. Again, I stand by my position.
Quote:The 4th house is finding God through the experience of family. It is the birth experience, being born into one, and giving birth to one.

No, it is not. That is the rising Sun birth experience of the 1st house – the Sun crossing thehorizon from the underworld and bringing its light with it. The 1st is the birth of the individual andhis or her light of consciousness. The 1st is the child without reference to home or parents. That
1st house Sun/person can look back at 4th house parents and family heritage he or she camefrom and forward to his or her future 10th house achievements. Remember, the chart represents
the slow clockwise turn of a dial, the diurnal motion.

If one to look at the zodiac in a linear/clockwise fashion, as you seem to be suggesting, then explain
why the 8th house is about death and not the 12th? And the 8th is RE-Birth as well. The zodiac, liketime, is a burrito. It folds in on itself, bounces from one spot to another. It's not linear. It's notnecessarily that simple. If it were, then perhaps what you say would be true. If it were, then parents
and mother and dad would be in the 12th house, wouldn't they?
The 1st house is of the mind and body, not necessarily spirit or soul. We carry the energy imprints
from our parents, their parents, and their parents parents, seven deep and then some, and with thatthe genetic coding (4th house) that can predetermine the ENVIRONMENT of the 1st housedevelopment in some ways. Consciousness, and its development, is not the same as how it relates
to its environment. A soul does not necessarily enter the body at the point of physical birth. The firsthouse is, as you describe it, an ASTROLOGICAL BIRTH, at best.
Back to top
IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #81 - on: 29.12.2010 at 00:25 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:49 [UT]:
Are you drunk? Your thoughts aren't connecting smoothly.

I have just been diagnosed with cholera in the lungs, one of those warm dry wet cold hazy days.............
I could make them simpler but 'others' will work out if you don't follow them your current understanding of the'tradition' is a touch naive. Nothing wrong with that, but lets not get carried away with assuming the nuancesof Ficino's decumbiture are on the tip of your fingers as yet!
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #82 - on: 29.12.2010 at 01:30 [UT] »In reply to Ms. Miranda:
If you were to slow yourself down and take a closer look you would find that I am talking about the natal chart
as the chart of a separate individual, a person who has separated from the mother and lives and breathes as anindividual. You're trying to smear motherhood and wombs and fetuses and the birth process all into one chart.
To an extent it can be done, but it's important to know exactly whose chart you're looking at.
What chart are you using? If you are using the birth chart (as is the common procedure) you are using a postfetal chart. Sorry Mom, but you are now second fiddle. The child and his or her body, vitality, health andintellect is the star of the 1st house, with the parents and family back in the 4th, and the future acts,
achievements and social standing located forward in the 10th. Think of the rising Sun culminating (which is the
traditional term) at the top of the chart.

Quote:
If one to look at the zodiac in a linear/clockwise fashion, as you seem to be suggesting, then explain why the 8th house is about deathand not the 12th? And the 8th is RE-Birth as well.

In its daily cycle of birth and death the Sun rises from the bottom of the chart (the midnight position) rises inthe east, culminates at the top (the midday postion) and sets or 'dies' in the west. It sinks deep into theunderworld where the death process is completed. It just so happens that that is also the beginning of rebirth.
Am I being linear?
The Sun has its joy in the 9th house, but as the day continues the Sun is losing height and is starting to sinktoward the end of day – death is entering awareness. Along with that awareness, fear is taking hold. The
ancients called the 8th house the 'Idle Place'. Yes, indeed, the Sun is still quite high and the day is warm, but
the Sun has slipped from it's postion of power in the 10th and its joy in the 9th. The end is coming, so while
the Sun is still quite high it sees its power slipping away and is feeling the stagnation of strength and mobility
that fear brings. We can all play with this idea and see what it may say about 8th house planets.
No, the 8th is not the house of transformation or rebirth. It is the state of stagnation, fear and loss that
COMES BEFORE the actual transformation.

I just don't know what to do with most of your latest post, reply #80. I have to admit that I find nearly all
your posts to be confused and unfocused. They are hell to reply to because you are all over the place – itmakes for agony in trying to figure out where to start a reply and what points to reply to. An example:
Quote:
The chart carries everything... And things we don't even know it carries, as the universe is infinite and there are celestial bodies at workthat we are not even aware of. I believe, that it is possible that there is a celestial body the represents every piece of code in our DNA,
parts of our cells, and so on, just as signs govern body parts. Life is infinite. . .

We need an astrology we can get a firm grip on in order to use it constructively. What you wrote is an
impractical conceptual mess.
Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #83 - on: 29.12.2010 at 02:05 [UT] »Quote from Libra lady on 29.12.2010 at 00:20 [UT]:. . . .
I'm sure if you re-read your posts, you will see that you are not sharing, you are TELLING others that they are wrong andwhat they should believe or how they should percieve astrology. That is YOUR view.

Sharing ?

Let's see what Libra Lady shared with us in reply #60. We can see just how accepting she is ofothers and their viewpoints, of the privacy of unmentioned life experiences they may have had, and how she
seems to asssume that we all have the same opinions as she and that some astrological conclusions are not tobe questioned. The following can only have been written by one who believes herself to be in the right.

"You may have 8th house planets but perhaps you have not reached an age to experience the depths oflearning and teaching the 8th house has in store for you. I hope when those lessons do come to you that you
have the strength to cope with them.
From the tone of your posts you seem to be in strong denial on some level and just wanting to discredit
others views and opinions. Is life not about evolving and developing into something more than we were whenborn? Do we not come back to the physical plane to work out previous karma? both good and bad? Are we notborn into families we have karmic links to? Are the 4th 8th and 12th houses not the karmic houses that show
the issues we wish to work on or rectify? do they not show past life experiences that need to be resolved?
You obviously have very stong beliefs of your own on houses and religion, I am wondering why you would
bother reading this thread or posting on it when your views are obviously out of sync with the views andopinions of others here wishing to share 8th house experiences. Perhaps you project 8th house power onto
others as you have yet to learn how toclaim and harness that personal power and use it for good."

It has been shared with us that houses 4, 8, and 12 ARE THE karmic houses. You WILL find your past life
experiences in those houses. What karma even is is apparently completely understood and agreed upon.
It appears that if our views don't quite match up with others we are to keep quiet or start our own club with aseparate thread. There's a pretty frightening exclusiveness, closed-mindedness and intolerance here. If I really
am so bad at least I'm not alone. In fact, there is a very unpleasant 'niceness' around here that I purposely
want to intrude upon.
Back to top

IP Logged

Ms. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #84 - on: 29.12.2010 at 02:46 [UT] »Zappo... Yes, it is clear you don't understand or know what to do with the ideas I've presented. So perhaps it'sbest that you set them aside for now.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged

vertex

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #85 - on: 29.12.2010 at 19:45 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:31 [UT]:
Quote from vertex on 28.12.2010 at 23:13 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:08 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 22:44 [UT]:

Posts: 5575
Gender:Could it be that I offer a necessary alternative view based on centuries of theastrological experience of others?

It was another way of saying "based on tradition". The T word gets some people all aflutter.

Actually, these revived Medieval or Hellenistic astrological models were not tested forvalidity in the modern society for centuries. Project Hindsight was started in the mid-90s, that is mid1990s.

They were in full swing for about 1800 years, from the Hellenistic beginnings to the 17th century. But the point I have made over and overis that everyone here is still using Hellenistic-Medieval astrology, it's just fractured and incomplete. You are all not as modern as you
think.

You use the ancient signs, Aries, Taurus, Gemini . . . . . You have planetary rulers for those signs, and even in trying to assign

Neptune to Cancer or any sign for exaltation you are feeling the need to bring a modern planet into an ancient model. If any of you areworried about an upcoming Saturn opposition to a natal planet then you are being quite medieval in your belief in the unpleasantindications of Saturn and oppositions. It's the hypocrisy of denying this and pretending that we are now very modern and advanced thatdrives me batty and assures that I won't be going away any time soon.

I don't follow your logic.
Sure, modern astrology was not borne of itself (just like most modern concepts, it has been built on somethingfrom past). However, that absolutely does not justify why all (or most) 11th century astrological concepts[which applies to that society] should as a rule override new modern astrological discoveries/concepts.
Just because modern medicine has its origin from ancient medicine does that mean we should drop mostmodern medical discoveries and practice medicine mostly (w/ minor tweaking) like they did in ancient times ?
Back to top

IP Logged

AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #86 - on: 29.12.2010 at 20:18 [UT] »if we're going to be forced to argue semantics, i'm going to want some definitions, Mr. Zappoo (sic).
Define 'traditional' and its historical period.
Define 'modern' and its historical period.
Tell us the year the constellation of Cancer became affiliated with the sign of Cancer and when it began to becalled 'Cancer' in English, not Latin or Greek.
And if you want to do any other song-and-dance-type-stuff, I certainly won't stop you.
But if you can't, or won't, define your terms, then yes, you're telling us what to think, and it's really really reallygetting boring. And old. Older than 650+ years or however old drunk Mr. Choleric has you down for.
That's 3 tablespoons of cod liver oil for him, not 2 of whatever it was you prescribed, Mr. Cholera.
waaaaay more help than can be found in an apotek bottle.

He needs

Back to top
IP Loggeda chair

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #87 - on: 29.12.2010 at 22:34 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 29.12.2010 at 00:22 [UT]:So... where does life REALLY begin? At birth or is it always a continuum of the womb? I stand by my position on this. The 4th house is thehouse of birth as I see it. The womb is where the continuum of life always lives and sparks. Whether you are in it, or it is in you.
Remember... it's about mother, not dad. Moon gives birth, not Mars.[/b]I was definitely interested when I read what you said about eighth house people. However, I'm siding with
Zappo here. I'm not sure how you are tying to connect the moon to birth but the moon affects both womenand men. If you are thinking of how the moon is inherited through families, you might want to look at thisthread. http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1178026569/13
I have read about aspects to the ASC indicating things about a person's birth, as I mentioned earlier on thisthread.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #88 - on: 29.12.2010 at 22:40 [UT] »Quote from vertex on 29.12.2010 at 19:45 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:31 [UT]:
Quote from vertex on 28.12.2010 at 23:13 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 23:08 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 28.12.2010 at 22:44 [UT]:
Could it be that I offer a necessary alternative view based on centuries of theastrological experience of others?

It was another way of saying "based on tradition". The T word gets some people all aflutter.

Actually, these revived Medieval or Hellenistic astrological models were nottested for validity in the modern society for centuries. Project Hindsight was started in
the mid-90s, that is mid-1990s.

They were in full swing for about 1800 years, from the Hellenistic beginnings to the 17th century. But the point I havemade over and over is that everyone here is still using Hellenistic-Medieval astrology, it's just fractured and incomplete.
You are all not as modern as you think.

You use the ancient signs, Aries, Taurus, Gemini . . . . . You have planetaryrulers for those signs, and even in trying to assign Neptune to Cancer or any sign for exaltation you are feeling the need tobring a modern planet into an ancient model. If any of you are worried about an upcoming Saturn opposition to a natal
planet then you are being quite medieval in your belief in the unpleasant indications of Saturn and oppositions. It's the
hypocrisy of denying this and pretending that we are now very modern and advanced that drives me batty and assures that
I won't be going away any time soon.

I don't follow your logic.
Sure, modern astrology was not borne of itself (just like most modern concepts, it has been built on something from past). However,that absolutely does not justify why all (or most) 11th century astrological concepts [whichapplies to that society] should as a rule override new modern astrological discoveries/concepts.
Just because modern medicine has its origin from ancient medicine does that mean we should drop most modern medical discoveries andpractice medicine mostly (w/ minor tweaking) like they did in ancient times ?

You don't follow my logic? Can't you see how comfortably medieval we are when we say that that Mars in Aries
opposed the Sun in Libra is going to cause some tension and possible unpleasantness? We are willingly – andeagerly – using ancient/medieval images when we talk about how we as 'a Scorpio' clash with our 'Leo' love
partner. If we are going to be doing this then we shouldn't we go all the way and learn the complete system
the astrologers were using at the time? An awful lot of folks will tell you that we have progressed away fromthe superstition of astrology. They might even point out the amazing advances of modern medicine in order todemonstrate that we are in a different age that no longer needs or sees value in astrology.
But here youare, being so medieval as you hang out at an astrological site.

Where have I said that “all (or most) 11th century astrological concepts [which applies to that society] should
as a rule override new modern astrological discoveries/concepts”​? You've completely changed what I've written
in my posts in order to turn me into some sort of threat to what you want to believe.
If you've paid any attention at all to what I wrote then you would know that I've been saying that astrology
was nearly forgotten and then was revived in a fractured and incompletely understood state. People havebecome more and more 'creative' with it and have added room after room, creating a ramshackle, disorganizedhouse. We need to go back and learn the complete structure that existed before we can make alterations andadditions. After finding out which of the ancient techniques don't seem to work for us we can drop them. I do
criticize and deride much modern astrology because it's free-lance, free-style, free-flowing astrology where thesupposed inspired babbling of yet another Internet freak or author backed by marketing passes as wisdom andinsight. So many people are so unaware of the ancient art and foundation that they truly believe that this'personal expression' astrology is the real thing. If some people want to go that way – fine. The problem lies
in an astrologically under-educated public thinking they are working with a full deck.

I invite and encourage others to look (again) at what I quoted in reply #48 of the thread about creating
separate sections for traditional and modern astrology:
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1291497653/40#40
Back to top
IP LoggedMs. Miranda

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #89 - on: 29.12.2010 at 22:58 [UT] »Quote from a chair on 29.12.2010 at 22:34 [UT]:
Quote from Ms. Miranda on 29.12.2010 at 00:22 [UT]:So... where does life REALLY begin? At birth or is it always a continuum of the womb? I stand by my position on this. The
4th house is the house of birth as I see it. The womb is where the continuum of life always lives and sparks. Whether you
are in it, or it is in you. Remember... it's about mother, not dad. Moon gives birth, not Mars.[/b]I was definitely interested when I read what you said about eighth house people. However, I'm siding with Zappo here. I'm not sure

how you are tying to connect the moon to birth but the moon affects both women and men. If you
are thinking of how the moon is inherited through families, you might want to look at this thread.
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1178026569/13
I have read about aspects to the ASC indicating things about a person's birth, as I mentioned earlier on this thread.

Posts: 3684
Gender:

No... this is no where near where I was going. Moon/mother... The moon is essential to the perseverance of lifeon earth.

Back to top

IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #90 - on: 29.12.2010 at 23:04 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 29.12.2010 at 22:40 [UT]:
I invite and encourage others to look (again) at what I quoted in reply #48 of the thread about creating separate sections for traditionaland modern astrology:

Which one would Mrs M post on? I think she needs her own board!
Back to top
IP Logged
Ms. Miranda

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #91 - on: 30.12.2010 at 00:22 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 29.12.2010 at 23:04 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 29.12.2010 at 22:40 [UT]:
I invite and encourage others to look (again) at what I quoted in reply #48 of the thread about creating separate sections
for traditional and modern astrology:

Which one would Mrs M post on? I think she needs her own board!

That's Ms. M. (Hmmm.... note to self... Must create a new board after I finish torquing Mike and Zappo...)Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #92 - on: 30.12.2010 at 00:30 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 29.12.2010 at 02:46 [UT]:Zappo... Yes, it is clear you don't understand or know what to do with the ideas I've presented. So perhaps it's best that you

set them aside for now.

Back to top
IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #93 - on: 30.12.2010 at 00:56 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 30.12.2010 at 00:22 [UT]:That's Ms. M. (Hmmm.... note to self... Must create a new board after I finish torquing Mike and Zappo...)I had to look up torquing, I got 'to leave a stool specimin'.
Which is my point about you having your own board.
I would call it Mrs M's thoughts of the day. With the right publicity it could become a well read resource forcertain social commentators. Could generate more traffic for astro.com.
Take these 2 highlights they would stand out more on your own board in their full emboldened glory!!
Quote:
The chart carries everything... And things we don't even know it carries, as the universe is infinite and there are celestial bodies at workthat we are not even aware of. I believe, that it is possible that there is a celestial body the represents every piece of code in our DNA,
parts of our cells, and so on, just as signs govern body parts. Life is infinite, and the the true beginning and end are elusive, even to thestoic collective thoughts of astrologers that agree to agree on something that sounds plausible and call it fact. I question

everything at some point because its necessary.
You're looking at this in a linear fashion instead of the overlapping and comprehensive circuitry of how energy moves around a chart. Theenergy circuit of charts is not circular, they light up in an infinite number of places depending upon the transits, progressions and aspects
that already exist. The 1st house is the development of the cognitive experience, of developing ego, personality, health, attitudes, andimage of Self... The PERSONA. Fetuses have no persona. They are life that already exists in a continuum from the 8th house union of theparents It's not about birth, what you are born into or what you give birth to. If Saturn transits a mother's AC during a pregnancy, then
you could just as easily say that Saturn constricts the health of the fetus. That is not the same as taking life away or death. Again, I

stand by my position.
Back to top

IP Logged

Penguin Trauma
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #94 - on: 30.12.2010 at 01:05 [UT] »Haven't read all the posts on here, only the first three or four, but I did read the article posted by the OP.
Reading through the article, she goes at great lengths to discuss how people with prominent 8th houseplacements 'feels others suffering'. And deeply at that.
So in short, 8th housers are empaths. I would have thought that was more of a I/12th house thing?

Posts: 8991

I'm quite curious about that now, can any 8th housers confirm this? Do you literally feel the emotions ofothers, or absorb their energies?

Gender:To add: I would have thought the most important house would be dependent on the chart. Mine is 2nd house three planet stellium with Venus at home there.
Back to top
IP Logged
Ms. Miranda

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #95 - on: 30.12.2010 at 01:17 [UT] »Zappo... Mike... While the two of you are busy trying to figure out how to squeeze out at least one descended
testical between the two of you to prove your manhood you might spend some time asking yourselves why
your prance around the forum with an astrological woody for me, despertate to dry hump the leg of any idea I
shake in front of you that extends beyond your intellectually short leads.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #96 - on: 30.12.2010 at 01:25 [UT] »Quote from Penguin Trauma on 30.12.2010 at 01:05 [UT]:Haven't read all the posts on here, only the first three or four, but I did read the article posted by the OP.
Reading through the article, she goes at great lengths to discuss how people with prominent 8th house placements 'feels others suffering'.
And deeply at that.

So in short, 8th housers are empaths. I would have thought that was more of a I/12th house thing?
I'm quite curious about that now, can any 8th housers confirm this? Do you literally feel the emotions of others, or absorb their energies?
To add: I would have thought the most important house would be dependent on the chart. Mine is 2nd house - three planet stellium with
Venus at home there.

That's a lot of crap.
Look for strong Moon, Venus and/or Neptune influence. [Did I actually, really and truly
suggest modern Neptune?
] The signs involved probably have a say in it too. The houses don't serve such a
purpose - except the first as a general indicator of the person's mind and mental qualities. Come to think of it- Mercury could contribute to such a thing. For instance, Mercury in Pisces where it is in detriment and fall.
Mercury there loses some ability to easily be intellectual, but probably gains in empathy and getting a feel forthings.

I came back to add the Sun - - - and we're right back to the Sun, Moon, Asc & its ruler. All that nonsense
about the 8th and feeling and empathy, etc. is written by someone who has been deeply scarred () by thesign/house confusion. She's thinking of the 8th as a water house. She would do well just to stick with water
signs and how they figure in the chart. Along with the Moon, Sun, Mercury, Asc & it ruler . . . . . . In otherwords: It's not just one house, Article Lady, it's a whole lot of things.
Back to top
IP Logged
Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #97 - on: 30.12.2010 at 01:33 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 30.12.2010 at 01:17 [UT]:Zappo... Mike... While the two of you are busy trying to figure out how to squeeze out at least one descended testical between the two of
you to prove your manhood you might spend some time asking yourselves why your prance around the forum with an astrological woody
for me, despertate to dry hump the leg of any idea I shake in front of you that extends beyond your intellectually short leads.

Further, on this board to meet its objectives you would be allowed to invite others on to it. No point me being
there, or Zappo, would defeat the purpose of it.
What do you say shall we ask the randomulators? or start a poll 'Mrs M's house here what say you' ?
Back to top

IP Logged

Penguin Trauma
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #98 - on: 30.12.2010 at 01:44 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 30.12.2010 at 01:25 [UT]:
Quote from Penguin Trauma on 30.12.2010 at 01:05 [UT]:Haven't read all the posts on here, only the first three or four, but I did read the article posted by the OP.
Reading through the article, she goes at great lengths to discuss how people with prominent 8th house placements 'feels
others suffering'. And deeply at that.

So in short, 8th housers are empaths. I would have thought that was more of a I/12th house thing?
I'm quite curious about that now, can any 8th housers confirm this? Do you literally feel the emotions of others, or absorb

Posts: 8991
Gender:their energies?
To add: I would have thought the most important house would be dependent on the chart. Mine is 2nd house - three planet
stellium with Venus at home there.

That's a lot of crap.
truly suggest modern Neptune?

Look for strong Moon, Venus and/or Neptune influence. [Did I actually, really and] The signs involved probably have a say in it too. The houses don't serve such a purpose - except thefirst as a general indicator of the person's mind and mental qualities. Come to think of it - Mercury could contribute to such a thing. For
instance, Mercury in Pisces where it is in detriment and fall. Mercury there loses some ability to easily be intellectual, but probably gains in
empathy and getting a feel for things.

See that's what I thought. Strong BI, and possibly D. Or C in dl as you said.
I should've put a question mark next to my 'empaths' statement really, to clarify - but that was what the article
was suggesting - at least 3 paragraphs of it!!
I did wonder if the author actually has 8th house d or l herself, with the A or B there.
Not saying that 8th housers can't feel empathy, or think in empathic terms btw...

Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #99 - on: 30.12.2010 at 01:46 [UT] »Quote from Penguin Trauma on 30.12.2010 at 01:44 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 30.12.2010 at 01:25 [UT]:
Quote from Penguin Trauma on 30.12.2010 at 01:05 [UT]:Haven't read all the posts on here, only the first three or four, but I did read the article posted by the OP.
Reading through the article, she goes at great lengths to discuss how people with prominent 8th houseplacements 'feels others suffering'. And deeply at that.

So in short, 8th housers are empaths. I would have thought that was more of a I/12thhouse thing?
I'm quite curious about that now, can any 8th housers confirm this? Do you literally feel the emotions ofothers, or absorb their energies?
To add: I would have thought the most important house would be dependent on the chart. Mine is 2nd house- three planet stellium with Venus at home there.

That's a lot of crap.

Look for strong Moon, Venus and/or Neptune influence. [Did I

actually, really and truly suggest modern Neptune?

] The signs involved probably have a say in it too. The houses don't

serve such a purpose - except the first as a general indicator of the person's mind and mental qualities. Come to think of
it - Mercury could contribute to such a thing. For instance, Mercury in Pisces where it is in detriment and fall. Mercury there
loses some ability to easily be intellectual, but probably gains in empathy and getting a feel for things.

See that's what I thought. Strong

BI, and possibly D. Or C in dl as you said.

I should've put a question mark next to my 'empaths' statement really, to clarify - but that was what the article was suggesting - at least
3 paragraphs of it!!
I did wonder if the author actually has 8th housed or l herself, with the A or B there.

Hi PT,
I hope you noticed that I went back and added another short paragraph. These things can get lost in the
restless progression forward around here.
Back to top

IP Logged

Penguin Trauma
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #100 - on: 30.12.2010 at 01:55 [UT] »Ah now I see it, and we cross posted!
I think it is true though, she does seem to be writing about it as if it were a sign, more than the house.
The way I see it, is that the sign is the characteristics or traits, and the house is more about the themes,interests, or 'subject matters' as it were, that the chart-holder focuses on, or even just veers towards.
Motivation, even.
Posts: 8991
Gender:

For instance, my 2nd house stellium definitely does not make me a Taurean in nature, or personality. However,I like the ideal of obtaining enough money to be nicely comfortable, which is a Taurean interest. Not to be afilthy rich millionaire though, no, just well off enough to be comfy (outright bought house in a country village,garden, cat, etc).
I'm a Pisces, first and foremost.

Back to top
IP Logged
Ms. Miranda

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #101 - on: 30.12.2010 at 06:24 [UT] »I stated from the very beginning that houses are pathways. If you're picking up the conversation without thatword as a reference, then it loses context entirely.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

a chairEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #102 - on: 30.12.2010 at 18:19 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 30.12.2010 at 01:25 [UT]:
For instance, Mercury in Pisces where it is in detriment and fall. Mercury there loses some ability to easily be intellectual, but probably
gains in empathy and getting a feel for things.

Is this from experience with Pisces Mercury people? Something I dislike about dignities is that people
sometimes assume things about a placement before they really know any of the specifics about the placement.
When it comes to the "water houses," I wonder if the people using the phrase are just assuming that there is aconnection between different houses that's similar to the connection between signs even though they aren't
assuming that the "water houses" are actually emotional or water-like in any way.
Earlier I said, "I actually think there was something to it even though I don't know if I agree with the author's
conclusions." but, upon further examination, I realized that I can't think of any examples to back this up that
don't have other possible explanations in the chart.
Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #103 - on: 30.12.2010 at 21:27 [UT] »Oh, no one was supposed to say anything about that Mercury in Pisces comment!
I knew at the time that I
was being too brief and vague but I was feeling impatient. I was alluding to the fact that Mercury in Pisces islocated in a place that asks Mercury to perform differently than is its normal manner. Mercury is both the
domicile and exaltation ruler of Virgo and thus is both in detriment and in fall in Pisces. I think we all knowthat while Virgo and Pisces have a certain sense of humility and service in common they represent two very
different ways of perceiving and acting. The sharp clean distinctions and dry reality of Virgo are much more inline with the qualities of Mercury than are the blurred boundaries and shifting emotional states of Pisces.
People with Mercury in Pisces tend to have mental qualities and processes that are atypical, or maybe not quitesmoothly functional, or more emotion-based rather than based on rational thought, or they grasp large loose
concepts which they then have difficulty bringing down to earth in communication – the person can actually bequite brilliant, but there is a problem with relating the concepts to other people, or . . . . . It depends. Somepeople experience it more than others. But isn't that how it is with all of astrology?

Quote:Is this from experience with Pisces Mercury people?

I get this both from astrological theory and from observation of people.

Quote:
Something I dislike about dignities is that people sometimes assume things about a placement before they really know any of the specifics
about the placement.

What about all the broad generalizations we here about Sun signs around here?
Those statements are madeso easily and without any consideration of other chart factors. For some reason people will easily place
themselves and others in those generalizations and yet get so upset if you mention that their Aquarius Sun isin detriment or their Pisces Mercury is in detriment and fall.
Back to top

IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #104 - on: 30.12.2010 at 21:42 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 30.12.2010 at 21:27 [UT]:
the person can actually be quite brilliant, but there is a problem with relating the concepts to other people, or . . . . . It depends. Somepeople experience it more than others. But isn't that how it is with all of astrology?

How can a person's capacity to think and communicate be 'brilliant' when the planet which describes thesefunctions is weak and debilitiated?
That's the thing about some neo-trads always trying to put a postive spin on the semantic geometry. You
ought to show the tradition some more respect!!
Back to top
IP Logged

GhostEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #105 - on: 30.12.2010 at 22:12 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 30.12.2010 at 21:42 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 30.12.2010 at 21:27 [UT]:
the person can actually be quite brilliant, but there is a problem with relating the concepts to other people, or . . . . . It
depends. Some people experience it more than others. But isn't that how it is with all of astrology?

How can a person's capacity to think and communicate be 'brilliant' when the planet which describes these functions is weak anddebilitiated?
That's the thing about some neo-trads always trying to put a postive spin on the semantic geometry. You ought to show the tradition somemore respect!!

I know someone with Mercury in Pisces who is very brilliant. Psychic, as well.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #106 - on: 30.12.2010 at 22:26 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 30.12.2010 at 21:42 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 30.12.2010 at 21:27 [UT]:
the person can actually be quite brilliant, but there is a problem with relating the concepts to other people, or . . . . . It
depends. Some people experience it more than others. But isn't that how it is with all of astrology?

How can a person's capacity to think and communicate be 'brilliant' when the planet which
describes these functions is weak and debilitiated?
That's the thing about some neo-trads always trying to put a postive spin on the semantic geometry. You ought to show the tradition somemore respect!!

PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY. I wrote about possible PROBLEMS with communication, not a brilliant
capacity to communicate. Same with thinking. I wrote that the Mercury in Pisces person may grasp large,
loose (meaning vague, undefined) concepts and may have trouble communicating them to others. I was sayingthat the person may have seemingly brilliant insights but may have trouble organizing them into ideas andconcepts that can be shared with others.
An essential consideration which is basic to traditional or neo-traditional astrology: Debilitated planets don'tnecessarily - and don't usually - make for debilitated people. A debilitated planet is a planet that can't quite beitself and can't easily do what it's best at doing. Something about its placement puts it into uncomfortableterrain. It needs to act differently from its natural qualities.
Mercury is at home with ordered and clear thought. Pisces doesn't offer that. Mercury there is rather lost in a
Piscean fog, but that doesn't mean the person is a lost dimwitted soul. The Moon, the Asc & its ruler, and the
Sun also all have much to say about the mental abilities of the person.
Back to top
IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #107 - on: 30.12.2010 at 22:46 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 30.12.2010 at 21:42 [UT]:
How can a person's capacity to think and communicate be 'brilliant' when the planet which
describes these functions is weak and debilitiated?
That's the thing about some neo-trads always trying to put a postive spin on the semantic geometry. You ought to show the tradition somemore respect!!

Posts: 3624

to believe that every bodies forte lies in crystal clear communication, is like saying Stephen Hawkins without his
aided communication systems is a blithering idiot.
you should have more respect.
Back to top

IP Logged

Alice Portman
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #108 - on: 30.12.2010 at 23:11 [UT] »I have always been a bit concerned at the emphasis people put on dignity, debilitation etc., in the natal chart.
My concern reached a fever pitch when an astrological magazine published an article that said evil people could
always be seen astrologically because they had debilitated planets and good people had planets in dignity or
exaltation. Based on my 40 years consulting experience this was just rot.
Posts: 2541
Gender:Mercury in Pisces works brilliantly for people in the arts, psychic people and some scientific people. For
example, the genius Rudolf Steiner had Mercury in Pisces conjunct Neptune! There was nothing woolly or
inadequate in his thinking processes and he had incredible intuition. The power of this conjunction wasincreased with Mercury in a quintile pattern also involving Jupiter and Uranus.
Mercury has the cross of matter, the half circle of the mind and the circle of spirit in its symbol, describing anenergy that can successfully work on all levels. In Pisces it is only muddled if other astrological factors point toproblems.
Alice

Back to top

Rudolph_Steiner.png (attachment deleted)
IP Logged

Ms. Miranda

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #109 - on: 30.12.2010 at 23:19 [UT] »lC can be very witty, inventive sense of humor, clever with a turn of phrase, a writer of poetry or songwriting, conveying emotions, hence acting, but not necessarily someone who is going to be able to recall details
very well. They are very good at capturing a mood, essence and overall idea, even if they are not particularly"scholarly sounding", which would never feel right to them anyhow. Not especially what they are here to do.
They are very visual, sensing, feeling, intuitive, and capable of great skills in the arts, which are right brain
oriented more than left brain, spacial, contextual, visual... Extremely gifted at speaking though a lens...
excellent place for visual artists, photographers, cinematographers, designers, painters, singers, actors, andcommunication arts. They're not necessarily be destined to be at a lectern in front of a JAMA, but that is not to
say that there is no brilliance. Far from it... They inspire, entertain, surprise, touch and communicate withpeople through the heart, not the mind and have a way of conveying ideas... Cayce, Lincoln, Renoir, Johnny

Posts: 3684
Gender:Cash... Perhaps a possible detriment or "downfall" can be how impressionable and sensitive it is, and that it canreinterpret/express/parrot the ideas of others with less personal ownership. Intuitives are a prime example ofvesseling information that is not by them but rather through them. Some may consider it more of a speaker
piece for the soul and higher power than the body or person producing it.

Back to top

IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #110 - on: 30.12.2010 at 23:49 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 30.12.2010 at 22:26 [UT]:
PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY. I wrote about possible PROBLEMS with communication, not a brilliant capacity to communicate. Samewith thinking. I wrote that the Mercury in Pisces person may grasp large, loose (meaning vague, undefined) concepts and may havetrouble communicating them to others. I was saying that the person may have seemingly brilliant insights but may have trouble organizingthem into ideas and concepts that can be shared with others.

You are doing the same thing with grasping concepts and brilliant insights. How can the persons thinking,which Mercury essentially describes, do this if it is not only in its fall but also in its detriment!!
A person with Mercury in Pisces, in itself, can't keep information in its head let alone process it coherently!
When the information comes out it comes out in mysterious ways.
It's imaginative, impressionistic, fuzzy, kind, absorbing, non-verbal........but this is not what Mercury requests.
If your perceptions can't be ordered and understood in ways which leads to them being effectively
communicated then your 'thinking' is debilitated.
As to how acute this is one would need to look at the aspects., house placement and the AIR.
However as Astrology, for some, has a purpose the idea is if the afflcted one becomes conscious of this'weakness' then it can be more successfully 'integrated' and in time this weakness may almost become astrength with rational, clear, structured, analytical, critical and improved communicative capacities emerging
from the fog. There was one of these characters who in 1387 saw a tree in a forest!!
Back to top
IP Logged
Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #111 - on: 30.12.2010 at 23:54 [UT] »Quote from Alice McDermott on 30.12.2010 at 23:11 [UT]:My concern reached a fever pitch when an astrological magazine published an article that said evil people could always be seen
astrologically because they had debilitated planets and good people had planets in dignity or exaltation. Based on my 40 years consulting
experience this was just rot.
Alice

It took you 40 yrs to work out this was rot? It should have taken you as long as was necessary to read thesentence.
Back to top

IP Logged

chang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #112 - on: 31.12.2010 at 00:01 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 30.12.2010 at 23:49 [UT]:
but this is not what Mercury requests. If your perceptions can't be ordered and understood in ways which leads to them
being effectively communicated then your 'thinking' is debilitated.

you still dont get it do you or maybe it is your own perceptions that are debilitated.
what is mercury requesting?
Posts: 3624

from the Greek mythology sector.
Mercury , Latin: Mercurius was a messenger and a god of trade, the son of Maia Maiestas and Jupiter in Roman
mythology. His name is related to the Latin word merx ("merchandise"; compare merchant, commerce, etc.),
mercari (to trade), and merces (wages).

Back to top
IP Logged
Lapis

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #113 - on: 31.12.2010 at 00:10 [UT] »I have a stellium in my eighth house. It's another aspect that's allowed me to perceive and experience more of
the metaphysical/paranormal/astral and other such levels throughout my life. Sure it can get intense but I
wouldn't change a thing.
Back to top

IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #114 - on: 31.12.2010 at 00:34 [UT] »Quote from chang*ling on 31.12.2010 at 00:01 [UT]:
you still dont get it do you or maybe it is your own perceptions that are debilitated.
what is mercury requesting?
from the Greek mythology sector.
Mercury , Latin: Mercurius was a messenger and a god of trade, the son of Maia Maiestas and Jupiter in Roman mythology. His name isrelated to the Latin word merx ("merchandise"; compare merchant, commerce, etc.), mercari (to trade), and merces (wages).

Useful bit of mythology underpinning the somewhat standard view of Mercury I outlined, by linking it tomessengers, traders and exchangers - what do they do? , perhaps they communicate now and then!
Back to top
IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #115 - on: 31.12.2010 at 00:49 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 31.12.2010 at 00:34 [UT]:
Quote from chang*ling on 31.12.2010 at 00:01 [UT]:
you still dont get it do you or maybe it is your own perceptions that are debilitated.
what is mercury requesting?
from the Greek mythology sector.
Mercury , Latin: Mercurius was a messenger and a god of trade, the son of Maia Maiestas and Jupiter in Roman mythology.
His name is related to the Latin word merx ("merchandise"; compare merchant, commerce, etc.), mercari (to trade), andmerces (wages).

Posts: 3624
Useful bit of mythology underpinning the somewhat standard view of Mercury I outlined, by linking it to messengers, traders andexchangers - what do they do? , perhaps they communicate now and then!

words are not needed when the produce of exchange speaks for itself.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #116 - on: 31.12.2010 at 00:56 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 30.12.2010 at 23:49 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 30.12.2010 at 22:26 [UT]:
PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY. I wrote about possible PROBLEMS with communication, not a brilliant capacity tocommunicate. Same with thinking. I wrote that the Mercury in Pisces person may grasp large, loose (meaning vague,
undefined) concepts and may have trouble communicating them to others. I was saying that the person may haveseemingly brilliant insights but may have trouble organizing them into ideas and concepts that can be shared with others.

You are doing the same thing with grasping concepts and brilliant insights. How can the persons thinking, which

Mercury essentially describes, do this if it is not only in its fall but also in its detriment!!
A person with Mercury in Pisces, in itself, can't keep information in its head let alone process it coherently! When the information comesout it comes out in mysterious ways.
It's imaginative, impressionistic, fuzzy, kind, absorbing, non-verbal........but this is not what Mercury requests. If your perceptions can't beordered and understood in ways which leads to them being effectively communicated then your 'thinking' is debilitated.
As to how acute this is one would need to look at the aspects., house placement and the AIR.
However as Astrology, for some, has a purpose the idea is if the afflcted one becomes conscious of this 'weakness' then it can be more
successfully 'integrated' and in time this weakness may almost become a strength with rational, clear, structured, analytical, critical andimproved communicative capacities emerging from the fog. There was one of these characters who in 1387 saw a tree in a forest!!

You ignored the last sentence of my post: "The Moon, the Asc & its ruler, and the Sun also all have much tosay about the mental abilities of the person." I should probably alter that somewhat to include the qualities
and manner of a person's mind. In any case, it isn't as simple as merely looking to Mercury. Any decent
astrologer will tell you that. The statement shows that you are still at a student level. Nothing wrong with that- your astrological ability will improve if you keep working at it.
Back to top
IP Logged
Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #117 - on: 31.12.2010 at 01:50 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 31.12.2010 at 00:56 [UT]:
You ignored the last sentence of my post: "The Moon, the Asc & its ruler, and the Sun also all have much to say about the mental abilitiesof the person." I should probably alter that somewhat to include the qualities and manner of a person's mind. In any case, it isn't assimple as merely looking to Mercury. Any decent astrologer will tell you that. The statement shows that you are still at a student level.
Nothing wrong with that - your astrological ability will improve if you keep working at it.

I didn't ignore it. All the planets say something about the Mind, as do all the houses, all the aspects, you nameit. Horoscopic Astrology is about events in consciousness, this is something contained in the Mind.
No I'm not a student, but I'm sure the Greene's, Hand's, Costello's, ........... who write these posts for me
would consider themselves just this!
You ability won't improve unless you get your head around some of the basics such as the psychological
functions of the planets and the psychological rationale behind the dignities. These are the ABC's you keep
telling us you are fond of exploring, getting back to BCE and think about the Thema Mundi could be thehomework offered you by these above characters.
Why is Mercury exalted in Virgo not Gemini? Is this to do with sect? Is this to do with the Thema Mundi being anocturnal chart? Is this because it is more malefic?
Back to top

IP Logged

truegem620
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #118 - on: 31.12.2010 at 21:08 [UT] »Quote from awareness on 19.12.2010 at 14:58 [UT]:
http://merliannews.com/Astrology_11/The_Mysteries_of_the_8th_House_House_of_Deat
h_Transformation_by_Carmen_Turner_Schott_MSW_LISW.shtml
For all these years it has been really hard to see the purpose of the 8th house.
I guess it is not only me who might recognize oneself in this article.
I especially embrace the conclusion on Oneness instead of Separateness at the end!
Enjoy!

Posts: 4466
Gender:"oneness" or dissolving collective barriers between people- sounds more Iian to me.
IMHO- far too much weight is being distributed to the 8th house in this article here.
One thing that really stuck out for me in the article was- "the 8th house doesn't lie".
Yet we are talking here about the house of taboo, secrets, and lies! The house of skeletons. The body without
flesh. The soul, the psyche is subject(ive) here.
Our own perceptions can muddy the waters and prevent clear perception between our inner experience and ourouter world. If you consider the 8th a ‘water’ house, that would be underground cesspools. Dark water.
An 8th house doesn't see, perceive, or feel. People do. The article says the 8th house doesn't lie, but false
perceptions do.
When we feel around in the dark, and interpret what we see, this is a subjective experience and can certainly be
influenced by our own 'ghosts'.

Back to top
IP Logged

truegem620

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #119 - on: 31.12.2010 at 21:13 [UT] »Quote from ~ Angel Feather ~ on 19.12.2010 at 16:01 [UT]:

I would also say that I am a very compassionate person and tend to put others before myself. In the past I have also suffered withdepression, so that article is definitely spot on for me.

I would not consider the 8th house to relate to compassion. Empathy perhaps, but what one does with those
Posts: 4466
Gender:perceptions that allow them to 'feel' for the other are not necessarily along the lines of compassion. A
sociopath can use empathy to manipulate their victims greatest fears.

Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #120 - on: 31.12.2010 at 21:29 [UT] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 31.12.2010 at 21:13 [UT]:
A sociopath can use empathy to manipulate their victims greatest fears.

you could replace the "sociopath" with a "spoilt child" although a child would not be aware of the long term
consequences or even know what fear is.

Posts: 3624

Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #121 - on: 31.12.2010 at 23:09 [UT] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 31.12.2010 at 21:08 [UT]:
Quote from awareness on 19.12.2010 at 14:58 [UT]:
http://merliannews.com/Astrology_11/The_Mysteries_of_the_8th_House_House_of_Deat
h_Transformation_by_Carmen_Turner_Schott_MSW_LISW.shtml
For all these years it has been really hard to see the purpose of the 8th house.
I guess it is not only me who might recognize oneself in this article.
I especially embrace the conclusion on Oneness instead of Separateness at the end!
Enjoy!
"oneness" or dissolving collective barriers between people- sounds more

Iian to me.

IMHO- far too much weight is being distributed to the 8th house in this article here.
One thing that really stuck out for me in the article was- "the 8th house doesn't lie".

Yet we are talking here about the house of taboo, secrets, and lies! The house of skeletons. The
body without flesh. The soul, the psyche is subject(ive) here.
Our own perceptions can muddy the waters and prevent clear perception between our inner experience and our outer world. If you consider
the 8th a ‘water’ house, that would be underground cesspools. Dark water.
An 8th house doesn't see, perceive, or feel. People do. The article says the 8th house doesn't lie, but false perceptions do.
When we feel around in the dark, and interpret what we see, this is a subjective experience and can certainly be influenced by our own'ghosts'.

This is getting a little messy and confusing.

Secrets, lies and deception - hidden things - have always been

12th house issues. In the same vein, the 12th is traditionally the house of hexes and spells the chart native
may have to deal with.
I guess the 8th is hidden too but it I would say it's definitely more related to thechart native and his or her personal fears and anxiety. BUT to really get into those fears look to the Moon and
Saturn - especially if they are in hard aspect or possibly if the Moon is in detriment in Capricorn or in fall in
Scorpio. Check out Moon aspects to Neptune and Pluto, too. You're running amok with the 8th house!

Your talk of cesspools, dark water, taboos, skeletons, the psyche, the body without flesh . . . . tells me that you
have rolled the 8th house, Scorpio and Pluto all into one ball and are calling it simply '8th house'. Ironically, itgets complicated further through the simple tag of 'water house'.
This is the sort of unworkable lumpinessthat I and many others have fled from.
Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #122 - on: 31.12.2010 at 23:39 [UT] »Hidden has some specifics to bare in mind. Otherwise, I agree that the concept of "hidden" can become a little
muddled. There is however, in my view, some cross hairs, cross over, that can be debated.
Hidden talents are 8th house... I don't know one person with a strong 8th house who hasn't uncovered one
surprise talent after another over the course of their lives, from the banal to extraordinary.
Secrets are 8th house as far as I've studied... what we hide from ourselves, deny, the lies we tell ourselves
consciously, subconsciously, unconsciously...hence uncovering one's personal emotional truth is a function here.
Being conscious of what we feel and/or hiding our feelings from others. Perhaps hidden motives is invested
there. Secrets also covers the realm of detective work. I think of 8th housers as hiding in the bushes watchingwhat the neighbors are up to, odd people skulking about the hood... that sort of things. Surveillance, perhaps?
Posts: 3684

Secret enemies is 12th house. Hidden power, behind the throne, hidden ways you screw yourself over, end

Gender:up in jail/confined/institutionalized/caged/bound/constricted physically and psychologically, self sabotage... 12thhouse.

Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #123 - on: 01.01.2011 at 00:13 [UT] »I find your idea of the 8th and hidden talents to be very interesting. I hadn't heard that before. I can see it
most strongly with an 8th house Sun. I like the idea very much – but then I have an 8th house Sun, so
perhaps I like the hopefulness the idea brings.

I get more of a 12th house feeling from your statement:“Secrets also covers the realm of detective work. I think of 8th housers as hiding in the bushes watching what
the neighbors are up to, odd people skulking about the hood... that sort of things. Surveillance, perhaps?”
I'm not sure, though. This does become pretty confusing. I do get the feeling you are moving into Scorpio
territory. I would tend to think that people engaged in those activities have Scorpio prominent in their charts.
For example, a Scorpio Sun or Mars in the 10th house. Or the 1st house, with Scorpio rising.
What I've tried, or at least wanted, to say all along is that I believe too much is being given over to the houses.
Qualities, motivations, the manner of acting are more in the dynamics of planets and houses.
Back to top

IP Logged

Noyab Nunca
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #124 - on: 01.01.2011 at 00:19 [UT] »My experience with 8th house indidivuals is the axis of openness/secrecy and sharing/withholding. D in 8th anda deep need to give all or give nothing, weeding out the untrustworthy through willingness to share and reveal.

Back to top
IP Logged
Ghost

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #125 - on: 01.01.2011 at 01:05 [UT] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 31.12.2010 at 21:13 [UT]:
Quote from ~ Angel Feather ~ on 19.12.2010 at 16:01 [UT]:

I would also say that I am a very compassionate person and tend to put others before myself. In the past I have also
suffered with depression, so that article is definitely spot on for me.
I would not consider the 8th house to relate to compassion. Empathy perhaps, but what one does with those perceptions that allow them
to 'feel' for the other are not necessarily along the lines of compassion. A sociopath can use empathy to manipulate their victims greatest
fears.

I think compassion is more 12th house?
Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #126 - on: 01.01.2011 at 01:39 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 00:13 [UT]:
I find your idea of the 8th and hidden talents to be very interesting. I hadn't heard that before. I can see it most strongly with an 8thhouse Sun. I like the idea very much – but then I have an 8th house Sun, so perhaps I like the hopefulness the idea brings.
I get more of a 12th house feeling from your statement:“Secrets also covers the realm of detective work. I think of 8th housers as hiding in the bushes watching what the neighbors are up to, odd
people skulking about the hood... that sort of things. Surveillance, perhaps?”
I'm not sure, though. This does become pretty confusing. I do get the feeling you are moving into Scorpio territory. I would tend to thinkthat people engaged in those activities have Scorpio prominent in their charts. For example, a Scorpio Sun or Mars in the 10th house. Or
the 1st house, with Scorpio rising.
What I've tried, or at least wanted, to say all along is that I believe too much is being given over to the houses. Qualities, motivations,the manner of acting are more in the dynamics of planets and houses.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Well, I'm not sure exactly what the aversion is I'm picking up on from you to the 8th house sounding like
Scorpio. I don't believe that you can separate the two, myself, and the truth is I view it as a filter. I find there isa connection myself. But that is not to say that all planets in the 8th house are going to behave in a Scorpio
manner. Not what I'm implying. I'm talking about experiences, paths, and opportunities, doors, gifts,
challenges, even...
I have AFmeH8... I have unraveled many hidden talents on my own throughout my life... I discovered a
knack for many creative/novel skills in child rearing/development as I've needed to (8th house rules ones ability
to react to crisis) as it relates to my autistic son. I learned to speak his language, for example... Because I had
to. The 8th house is the house where deep merging occurs in a variety of ways... For me, as a Leo mom, with
Jupiter and my Mercury in the 8th house, I had to learn how to connect with my son through this house. With
the help of t G, it ws difficult, but it changed me, transformed my abilities as a mother and catapulted me intoa trajectory of learning about holistic medicine, and spent years in research in autism, as well... If I were to go
into the Wayback machine... I discovered I picked up a camera when I was 21, with no experience anddiscovered I had a knack for photographing dying and decaying things in a beautiful manner that gave them a"new life", such as dead trees, rotting doors, the desert in August, old telephone poles, and finding "crosses" innature... All with no training. I discovered a gift for doing micro mini stained glass mosaics (pictures of animals
and lifelife things) came with little effort. As a graphic designer, I found myself doing more and more businessconsulting as the years progressed, with no business schooling (I schooled in journalism/advertising). When i
was in the middle of my divorce, my ex was bugging/stalking/hacking and so on... So, I countered his efforts
and I actually took private investigative training to see what I could do to counter-surveille him within legal
guidelines... Detective work is 8th house as far as I've read as well... I've nothing going on in my 12th house,
however it is ruled by h, so for me, there is certainly opportunity for cross over. Especially when one talks therealms of psychology...
If you are the person skulking in the bushes you are invested in unraveling other people's secrets. If you are
sitting in a cofessional and people are offering them up to you, then that is 12th house... I guess, for me, I'm
mindful of the perspective from which I'm entering the house... It's vital, I find.

I agree TruGem, that 12th house is more compassion... 8th house more empathy... For me they are very
different. Compassion and sympathy gets into a person's energy circuit, whereas, empathy can imagine oneself
in the others shoes without getting into them.
Back to top
IP Logged

Joseph Astrologer

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #127 - on: 01.01.2011 at 07:43 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 27.12.2010 at 22:27 [UT]:
I've a strong 8th and 9th house establishment of planets in my chart, so I can speak a little bit about the differences as I experience
them. I'm going to try and take a stab at this for those who are confused between 8, 9 and 12th houses... I've got a blend of the twohouses and they both are very powerfully inhabited in my chart, so I can understand some of the differentiating aspects of my own
experiences and yet they also blend... I've got

d ruling my 8th, Saturn in my 4th, and h ruling my 12th house.

The 4th house is finding God through the experience of family. It is the birth experience, being born into one, and giving birth to one.
Furthermore, the 4th house has to do it through how we take on what we are given, through genetics, miasms, family baggage, heirloom
dynamics and what we choose to do with that.
The 8th house is finding God through the experience of deep one on one relationship. It is the experience of God power of transformation.
8th housers, I find can be lonelier souls than a 12th houser, because on some level the two intuitively understand their deeper purpose. An
8th housers knows that she/he is supposed to commune with another, while a 12th housers understands their communion is a solitary
experience. The 8th house is touching the void through one's exploration of self and relationship to the divine in how you build a
relationship to your own personal power through another. It is a space between the spaces of moments we call time. 8th housers touch
God through their union with another, overcoming the fear of letting people know what it is that they cherish most, as 8th housers, as
Scorpios, feel that if one speaks what one desires most in life, that it will be leveraged against them, or taken away. Communion is very
scary and requires enormous personal power. To develop the ability to move beyond the earthly plane of the 4th house experience ofcoming into one's physical body, and then transcending it without leaving it, as a 12th housers would. That is why union is so vital to the
8th house experience. To know that the path to developing communion relies upon trusting self about another is why the psychology of all
the things that keep us from connecting with others comes up for inspection. Scorpio and 8th house KNOWS the nature of man, warts andall, and he/she is afraid to be harmed in the giving up and surrender. There is a fear of death here as much as a surrender to it. Physicallyan 8th houser would sooner die than to surrender their hearts, bodies and minds completely to another. It has no problem with God, asmuch as how to work/see God through another person. It is a challenge to be invested in the development of a deeper truth about self inthat all that we see outside ourselves is a reflection of what we possess inside. So we see to manipulate that which we don't like to lookat or experience in another as a way to avoid communion. But it MUST be done. It is, in itself, the Holy Grail experience of the house.
That one deep union with another, to know that giving up self to another, without sacrificing ones power, is what transforms you. It is thehouse of the Alchemist. Ever notice how the 9th house takes the wand of this wisdom? It has a spiritual fearlessness that Scorpio is only
beginning to learn.
The 9th house is the house of the Scholar/philosopher/Self mastery. It is that house where once we understand our true nature, that wetake that learning and teach it, study it, apply it on a higher education level, develop a philosophy or religion or a paradigm of thinking
about what we've learned, and so on... The 9th house is not as "wounded" as the 4th, 8th and 12th houses, in that there is an infusion offire that steams this house forward in its greater purpose which is to develop self mastery through application and continued learning andrefinement of ones experiences of religion, mystical experiences and the magic of life. The 9th house tests theories, is a scientist, a
researcher, teacher and preacher and often capable of great personal impartiality, and yet the shadow can be a dogmatism until their
theories and religion prove constricting or self sabotaging. Then it busts out of its self made box and tries another tack... It is the eternalnavigator. The 9th house is perhaps more thinking and perceptive. If I were to differentiate between the two. The water houses are far
more emotional and feeling and etheric fluid.
The 12th house is finding God through being alone. It's a solitary experience, one that cusps both the physical and spiritual plane. It is
about communion with God/Universe directly. It is the house of the hermit, the savior, the priest... It is personal, private, secluded, andhermetic. It is the house of the heretic, perhaps. Itss where you go one on one with your sense of confinement in the human experienceand invoke the ability to leave your body literally, figuratively, psychologically, or through pray and meditation as a means to connect with
the infinite in a way that is done in a manner that is experienced solely, and perhaps in a lonely manner...

Miranda - this is expressed well. I have this energy in the following houses - Cancer in 8th, Scorpio in 12th andPisces in 4th - the three elements interlinked. The distinguishes you make above are very timley
Back to top

IP Logged

AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #128 - on: 01.01.2011 at 12:35 [UT] »I don't see why we can't interconnect the three water houses, just like we can interconnect the othermodalities. To look at them entirely independently of one another is to engage in atomism, which has beenshown to have definite limitations.
In other words, for anyone who has actually had a postmodern education, or anything remotely LIKE a
postmodern education, holistic thinking has superseded atomistic thinking. In holistic thinking, it is entirely
possible to see the entire chart as an organic whole, with each segment of information supporting that whole.
Therefore, it is entirely possible to say that there are obvious similarities between the modalities, and it's also
entirely realistic for those similarities to overlap in form and function. No one house "owns" primary rulership of
its modality; it just expresses that modality in slightly different ways.

Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #129 - on: 01.01.2011 at 12:41 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 01.01.2011 at 12:35 [UT]:
I don't see why we can't interconnect the three water houses, just like we can interconnect theother modalities. To look at them entirely independently of one another is to engage in atomism,
which has been shown to have definite limitations.
In other words, for anyone who has actually had a postmodern education, or anything remotely
LIKE a postmodern education, holistic thinking has superseded atomistic thinking. In holistic thinking,it is entirely possible to see the entire chart as an organic whole, with each segment of information supporting that whole.
Therefore, it is entirely possible to say that there are obvious similarities between the modalities, and it's also entirely realistic for thosesimilarities to overlap in form and function. No one house "owns" primary rulership of its modality; it just expresses that modality inslightly different ways.

We're talking about an element here, not a modality or mode.
So let's be refreshingly holistic and say that nickels, dimes and quarters are the same.

They indeed are allcoins, but they are coins of different value. When the store clerk gives me my change back I don't think I will
be very concerned as to whether I appear excessively 'atomistic'.
Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #130 - on: 01.01.2011 at 12:49 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 12:41 [UT]:

We're talking about an element here, not a modality or mode.
So let's be refreshingly holistic and say that nickels, dimes and quarters are the same.

They indeed are all coins, but they are coins ofdifferent value. When the store clerk gives me my change back I don't think I will be very concerned as to whether I appear excessively'atomistic'.

Posts: 3624

tis true you will find that each element goes through a flux of changing its modality.
http://www.claytentylor.com/astronotes1.html

Back to top
IP Logged
AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #131 - on: 01.01.2011 at 13:15 [UT] »sorry--elements. elements.
i am recovering from the flu.
the essence of my point remains the same.
Back to top

IP Loggeda chair
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #132 - on: 01.01.2011 at 16:51 [UT] »Quote from Noyab Nunca on 01.01.2011 at 00:19 [UT]:My experience with 8th house indidivuals is the axis of openness/secrecy and sharing/withholding.

D in 8th and a deep need to give all orgive nothing, weeding out the untrustworthy through willingness to share and reveal.

I have seen something similar when looking through my journal. I was actually looking at all the days whenthe moon was conjunct my natal BML, but BML is in my 8H. I found I was often thinking, or even talking
about the things I know about me that few others or nobody else knows. Things that were taboo. Sometimes,
when I wanted to or did tell people the truth, I thought it would upset others but felt like being rebellious.
Other times I thought that they would enjoy hearing what they heard.
However, I would have to look into it more. I only looked at the T BmNM days and the days before and after. I
have 8H AmM & 8H C
Quote from Ms. Miranda on 01.01.2011 at 01:39 [UT]:
I discovered I picked up a camera when I was 21, with no experience and discovered I had a knack for photographing dying and decaying
things in a beautiful manner that gave them a "new life", such as dead trees, rotting doors, the desert in August, old telephone poles, andfinding "crosses" in nature.

I am often fascinated by things that are unusual, if that turns out to be any sort of connection.
All your talents may have been from the Leo. Leo's don't sell themselves short. If they have a talent, youknow they'll figure it out sooner or later.
Back to top
IP Logged

Noyab Nunca

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #133 - on: 01.01.2011 at 21:42 [UT] »8th house people, when it's not emotionally overwhelming for them, weird aspects to B and G, are usually
very willing to go the distance with someone who expresses secrets, dark truths, as dark as they might be. I
really admire and am drawn to 8th house people (again, my D 8th) because they can take whatever comes out
from you without flinching. j is also this way, but more feathered by it. In some ways, 8th house people arelike that saying, "Is that all you got?"
They like to go deep, wherever J house rules or aspects.
Modern ruler of 8th house, J wants to reveal, and traditional ruler E wants to engage, get to it. Maybe it's allabout how we feel we need to truly defend ourselves with others.
8th house is not a place for ambivalent feelings or reactions.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #134 - on: 01.01.2011 at 22:55 [UT] »Quote from Noyab Nunca on 01.01.2011 at 21:42 [UT]:
8th house people, when it's not emotionally overwhelming for them, weird aspects to

B and G, are usually very willing to go the distancewith someone who expresses secrets, dark truths, as dark as they might be. I really admire and am drawn to 8th house people (again, myD 8th) because they can take whatever comes out from you without flinching. j is also this way, but more feathered by it. In someways, 8th house people are like that saying, "Is that all you got?"
They like to go deep, wherever

J house rules or aspects.

Modern ruler of 8th house, J wants to reveal, and traditional ruler E wants to engage, get to it.
Maybe it's all about how we feel we need to truly defend ourselves with others.
8th house is not a place for ambivalent feelings or reactions.

But for accuracy's sake I have to point out that traditionally astrologers would never have called Mars the rulerof the 8th house. Mars was the domicile ruler or lord of Scorpio but was not called any sort of 'ruler' of the
8th.
In Lilly's Christian Astrology of 1647 the signs are associated with the houses for medical astrology, so in that
restricted usage there is a Scorpio-8th house connection. You will also find that Saturn is associated with the
8th due to assignation of the planets to the houses in the Chaldean order, starting with Saturn and the 1st,
ending with Moon and the 7th, and then starting again with Saturn and the 8th.
Back to top
IP Logged
Ghost

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #135 - on: 01.01.2011 at 23:14 [UT] »Quote from Noyab Nunca on 01.01.2011 at 21:42 [UT]:
8th house people, when it's not emotionally overwhelming for them, weird aspects to B and G,
are usually very willing to go the distance with someone who expresses secrets, dark truths, as dark as they might be. I really admire andam drawn to 8th house people (again, myD 8th) because they can take whatever comes out from you without flinching. j is also thisway, but more feathered by it. In some ways, 8th house people are like that saying, "Is that all you got?"
They like to go deep, whereverModern ruler of 8th house,

J house rules or aspects.

J wants to reveal, and traditional ruler E wants to engage, get to it. Maybe it's all about how we feel weneed to truly defend ourselves with others.
8th house is not a place for ambivalent feelings or reactions.

Actually - you assume the two are mutually exclusive.
Plenty of 8th housers with so-called 'weird' aspects to their Moon and Saturn are extremely emotional and, atthe same time, can handle anything thrown at them. In fact, I'd say most eighth-housers.
To say otherwise would make about as much sense as saying most Venus in the 8th house people, are golddiggers.
Back to top

IP Logged

truegem620
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #136 - on: 01.01.2011 at 23:33 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 31.12.2010 at 23:09 [UT]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 31.12.2010 at 21:08 [UT]:
Quote from awareness on 19.12.2010 at 14:58 [UT]:
http://merliannews.com/Astrology_11/The_Mysteries_of_the_8th_House_House_of_Deat
h_Transformation_by_Carmen_Turner_Schott_MSW_LISW.shtml
For all these years it has been really hard to see the purpose of the 8th house.
I guess it is not only me who might recognize oneself in this article.
I especially embrace the conclusion on Oneness instead of Separateness at the end!

Posts: 4466
Gender:Enjoy!
"oneness" or dissolving collective barriers between people- sounds more

Iian to me.

IMHO- far too much weight is being distributed to the 8th house in this article here.
One thing that really stuck out for me in the article was- "the 8th house doesn't lie".

Yet we are talking here about the house of taboo, secrets, and lies! The house ofskeletons. The body without flesh. The soul, the psyche is subject(ive) here.
Our own perceptions can muddy the waters and prevent clear perception between our inner experience and our outer world.
If you consider the 8th a ‘water’ house, that would be underground cesspools. Dark water.
An 8th house doesn't see, perceive, or feel. People do. The article says the 8th house doesn't lie, but false perceptions do.
When we feel around in the dark, and interpret what we see, this is a subjective experience and can certainly be influenced
by our own 'ghosts'.

This is getting a little messy and confusing.

Secrets, lies and deception - hidden things - have always been 12th house issues. In thesame vein, the 12th is traditionally the house of hexes and spells the chart native may have to deal with.

I guess the 8th is hidden too

but it I would say it's definitely more related to the chart native and his or her personal fears and anxiety. BUT to really get into thosefears look to the Moon and Saturn - especially if they are in hard aspect or possibly if the Moon is in detriment in Capricorn or in fall in
Scorpio. Check out Moon aspects to Neptune and Pluto, too. You're running amok with the 8th house!

Your talk of cesspools, dark water, taboos, skeletons, the psyche, the body without flesh . . . . tells me that you have rolled the 8thhouse, Scorpio and Pluto all into one ball and are calling it simply '8th house'. Ironically, it gets complicated further through the simple tagof 'water house'.

This is the sort of unworkable lumpiness that I and many others have fled from.

Considering that you have been posting this argumentation all over the forum, in many various threads, I
should think you would have it figured out by now that it takes more than a couple paragraphs to determine
ones opinion of/ and or express the(complex) function of the houses. Why not start a thread and address this'issue' of yours in context. Label it "Houses"- I would join.
You could just as easily wiggle parts of your own replies out of context, and turn your argument on yourself.
Like a snake swallowing a snake- or perhaps a fish chasing a fish chasing a fish...?
Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #137 - on: 01.01.2011 at 23:51 [UT] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 01.01.2011 at 23:33 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 31.12.2010 at 23:09 [UT]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 31.12.2010 at 21:08 [UT]:
Quote from awareness on 19.12.2010 at 14:58 [UT]:
http://merliannews.com/Astrology_11/The_Mysteries_of_the_8th_House_House_of_Deat
h_Transformation_by_Carmen_Turner_Schott_MSW_LISW.shtml
For all these years it has been really hard to see the purpose of the 8th house.
I guess it is not only me who might recognize oneself in this article.
I especially embrace the conclusion on Oneness instead of Separateness at the end!
Enjoy!
"oneness" or dissolving collective barriers between people- sounds more

Iian to me.

IMHO- far too much weight is being distributed to the 8th house in this article here.
One thing that really stuck out for me in the article was- "the 8th house doesn't lie".

Yet we are talking here about the house of taboo, secrets, and lies! The
house of skeletons. The body without flesh. The soul, the psyche issubject(ive) here.
Our own perceptions can muddy the waters and prevent clear perception between our inner experience andour outer world. If you consider the 8th a ‘water’ house, that would be underground cesspools. Dark water.
An 8th house doesn't see, perceive, or feel. People do. The article says the 8th house doesn't lie, but false
perceptions do.
When we feel around in the dark, and interpret what we see, this is a subjective experience and cancertainly be influenced by our own 'ghosts'.

This is getting a little messy and confusing.

Secrets, lies and deception - hidden things - have always been 12th houseissues. In the same vein, the 12th is traditionally the house of hexes and spells the chart native may have to deal with.
I guess the 8th is hidden too but it I would say it's definitely more related to the chart native and his or her personal fears
and anxiety. BUT to really get into those fears look to the Moon and Saturn - especially if they are in hard aspect or
possibly if the Moon is in detriment in Capricorn or in fall in Scorpio. Check out Moon aspects to Neptune and Pluto, too.
You're running amok with the 8th house!

Your talk of cesspools, dark water, taboos, skeletons, the psyche, the body without flesh . . . . tells me that you haverolled the 8th house, Scorpio and Pluto all into one ball and are calling it simply '8th house'. Ironically, it gets complicatedfurther through the simple tag of 'water house'.

This is the sort of unworkable lumpiness that I and many others havefled from.

Considering that you have been posting this argumentation all over the forum, in many various threads, I should think you would have it
figured out by now that it takes more than a couple paragraphs to determine ones opinion of/ and or express the(complex) function of thehouses. Why not start a thread and address this 'issue' of yours in context. Label it "Houses"- I would join.
You could just as easily wiggle parts of your own replies out of context, and turn your argument on yourself. Like a snake swallowing asnake- or perhaps a fish chasing a fish chasing a fish...?

We don't need yet another thread. That's the problem: Numerous threads and short attention spans.
The blurring of signs, houses and planets is right at the heart of this 8th house discussion. Disagreement disagreement with sources and scholarship behind it - isn't welcome in this 'anything goes' and 'everybody-canright-because-they-thought-of-it' environment.
Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #138 - on: 02.01.2011 at 00:02 [UT] »a purging and transformation is needed. very eight house in my understanding.

Posts: 3624

Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #139 - on: 02.01.2011 at 00:19 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 01.01.2011 at 01:39 [UT]:. . .
Well, I'm not sure exactly what the aversion is I'm picking up on from you to the 8th house sounding like Scorpio. I don't believe that you
can separate the two, myself, and the truth is I view it as a filter. I find there is a connection myself. But that is not to say that allplanets in the 8th house are going to behave in a Scorpio manner. Not what I'm implying. I'm talking about experiences, paths, andopportunities, doors, gifts, challenges, even...

AFme

I haveH8... I have unraveled many hidden talents on my own throughout my life... I discovered a knack for many creative/novel
skills in child rearing/development as I've needed to (8th house rules ones ability to react to crisis) as it relates to my autistic son. I
learned to speak his language, for example... Because I had to. The 8th house is the house where deep merging occurs in a variety ofways... For me, as a Leo mom, with Jupiter and my Mercury in the 8th house, I had to learn how to connect with my son through thishouse. With the help of t

G, it ws difficult, but it changed me, transformed my abilities as a mother and catapulted me into a trajectory oflearning about holistic medicine, and spent years in research in autism, as well... If I were to go into the Wayback machine... I discovered
I picked up a camera when I was 21, with no experience and discovered I had a knack for photographing dying and decaying things in a
beautiful manner that gave them a "new life", such as dead trees, rotting doors, the desert in August, old telephone poles, and finding"crosses" in nature... All with no training. I discovered a gift for doing micro mini stained glass mosaics (pictures of animals and lifelife
things) came with little effort. As a graphic designer, I found myself doing more and more business consulting as the years progressed,with no business schooling (I schooled in journalism/advertising). When i was in the middle of my divorce, my ex was
bugging/stalking/hacking and so on... So, I countered his efforts and I actually took private investigative training to see what I could do tocounter-surveille him within legal guidelines... Detective work is 8th house as far as I've read as well... I've nothing going on in my 12thhouse, however it is ruled byh, so for me, there is certainly opportunity for cross over. Especially when one talks the realms of

psychology...

If you are the person skulking in the bushes you are invested in unraveling other people's
secrets. If you are sitting in a cofessional and people are offering them up to you, then that is
12th house... I guess, for me, I'm mindful of the perspective from which I'm entering the house... It's vital, I find.

I agree TruGem, that 12th house is more compassion... 8th house more empathy... For me they are very different. Compassion andsympathy gets into a person's energy circuit, whereas, empathy can imagine oneself in the others shoes without getting into them.

But how does this fit your previous reply where you wrote:
Quote:
Secrets are 8th house as far as I've studied... what we hide from ourselves, deny, the lies we tell ourselves consciously,
subconsciously, unconsciously...hence uncovering one's personal emotional truth is a function here. Being conscious of what we feel and/or
hiding our feelings from others. Perhaps hidden motives is invested there. Secrets also covers the realm of detective work. I think of 8thhousers as hiding in the bushes watching what the neighbors are up to, odd people skulking about the hood... that sort of things.
Surveillance, perhaps?

Secret enemies [/b]is 12th house. Hidden power, behind the throne, hidden ways you screw
yourself over, end up in jail/confined/institutionalized/caged/bound/constricted physically andpsychologically, self sabotage... 12th house.

You first said that the confessional - where the priest receives the secrets of others - is 12th house (but you
said secrets were 8th house). And then you give us a very negative description of the harmful 12th house(true to the spirit of ancient astrology). You start with calling the 8th house the house of secrets and the12th the house of secret enemies but then you have secrets being told in the 12th and you turn priests into
secret enemies as they listen to confessed secrets. (Or are those who confess the secret enemies of the priest?
-- I'm so confused.)
The confessional is actually a good and helpful place to get some unpleasant things off
one's chest. Don't you confuse yourself with all this ?

Houses are really much simpler than all this mess.
Back to top

IP Logged

Ms. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #140 - on: 02.01.2011 at 01:00 [UT] »There was a missing bit of information in the "skulking" line... The skulker being an 8th house experience, which
I didn't specify (oops) was in contrast to being one who is being confesses to. Taking versus receiving. Me
giving one example is never exemplary of the vastness of examples available. So please understand that I mean
to put no limitation on that. Everything has duality, paradox and polarity as far as I'm concerned. However I
am not concerned with giving every available combination of example possible. The 12th house is the house of
the Saints and Sinners, so to speak... Opposite ends of the same polarity. You cannot have a sinner without apriest, same as you cannot have a criminal without a judge, a victim without a rescuer. They co-create eachother.
Receiving a confession (12th house) is not the same as actively digging up other people's stuff (8th house).
One is drawn out without hindrance. I guess, no... It is not confusing to me, entirely. You can't have a house,
Posts: 3684
Gender:it's ruler or its inhabitants operate in a vacuum, as you know. However you can assign a perspective that can bevital to differentiating between them all. I admit, it may take some effort for me to explain how I see thedifferences. You may see them differently. Some of them are minute, and that minutia can shape shift aperspective dramatically. Karen Hamker-Zonag wrote "The 12th House: The Hidden Power in the Horoscope"and goes to great lengths to explore this house in relationship to the 8th.

Back to top
IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #141 - on: 02.01.2011 at 01:28 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 00:19 [UT]:Houses are really much simpler than all this mess.

Places not Houses you irreverant moderniser.
Astrology was simpler in the past, considerably so. We can blame the Darwins, the Freuds and the Greene's formaking us so complex.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #142 - on: 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT] »There is something else from reply #126 that I've been wanting to reply to:
Quote from Ms. Miranda on 01.01.2011 at 01:39 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 00:13 [UT]:
I find your idea of the 8th and hidden talents to be very interesting. I hadn't heard that before. I can see it most strongly
with an 8th house Sun. I like the idea very much – but then I have an 8th house Sun, so perhaps I like the hopefulness theidea brings.
I get more of a 12th house feeling from your statement:“Secrets also covers the realm of detective work. I think of 8th housers as hiding in the bushes watching what theneighbors are up to, odd people skulking about the hood... that sort of things. Surveillance, perhaps?”
I'm not sure, though. This does become pretty confusing. I do get the feeling you are moving into Scorpio territory. I
would tend to think that people engaged in those activities have Scorpio prominent in their charts. For example, a Scorpio
Sun or Mars in the 10th house. Or the 1st house, with Scorpio rising.
What I've tried, or at least wanted, to say all along is that I believe too much is being given over to the houses. Qualities,
motivations, the manner of acting are more in the dynamics of planets and houses.

Well, I'm not sure exactly what the aversion is I'm picking up on from you to the 8th housesounding like Scorpio. I don't believe that you can separate the two, myself, and the truth is I
view it as a filter. I find there is a connection myself. But that is not to say that all planets in the 8th house are going to behave ina Scorpio manner. Not what I'm implying. I'm talking about experiences, paths, and opportunities, doors,
gifts, challenges, even...

You say you don't believe that Scorpio and the 8th can be separated, yet it has been shown that Western
horoscopic astrology did not develop with a 'natural' connection of affinity between signs and houses. So you
are not wanting to separate elements that originally and for nearly 2000 years weren't even connected.

Also, you are blurring and confusing the qualities of signs with house significations. You are disregarding thestandard manner of using signs and houses.
This is from this site's introduction to astrology:“As we mentioned earlier, the astrological houses show us which spheres or aspects of life receive moreweight than others in a horoscope. Each astrological house stands for a particular sphere. The house division ofa horoscope varies from person to person, since it is calculated according to the exact time of birth and thegeographic position of the place of birth.”http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house1_e.htm

This is from Alan Oken's Complete Astrology (1980):“If the planets are the WHAT of astrology and the signs the HOW, the Houses are considered the WHERE.

Where in the person's life, in which area of earthly existence, does the energy indicated by the planet-signconfigurations manifest itself with the greatest intensity?”

And from C. E. O. Carter's The Principles of Astrology, 5th edition (1963):“Every department of human life falls under one or other of the Twelve Houses. They are channels, so to
speak, through which man enters into relationship with his environment. They have more distinct reference
to physical things than the planets and signs, which are connected rather with the character and disposition.

Yet mind, emotions, body, and circumstances act and re-act continuously and we cannot say definitely that any
factor of the horoscope is exclusively related to any one of these only.”
We could all provide many more such quotes.

Your imagination is running away with you. You are giving all sorts of sign qualities to the houses.
Unfortunately, it seems to be based on faulty knowledge of how the elements of a chart are used. Signs,
planets, aspects and houses serve their distinct purposes in chart delineation.
Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #143 - on: 02.01.2011 at 01:44 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 02.01.2011 at 01:28 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 00:19 [UT]:Houses are really much simpler than all this mess.

Places not Houses you irreverant moderniser.
Astrology was simpler in the past, considerably so. We can blame the Darwins, the Freuds and the Greene's for making us so complex.

Oh, I know. But then, for consistency, I would have to start calling Aries the diurnal house of Mars, with
Scorpio as its nocturnal house. You know how well that would go over.
Back to top

IP Loggeda chair
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #144 - on: 02.01.2011 at 02:18 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 22:55 [UT]:
You will also find that Saturn is associated with the 8th due to assignation of the planets to the houses in the Chaldean order,

So are you backing up the possibility of some astrological truth being present in Noyab Nunca's association
between Capricorn and 8H?
I never learned the joys before. It seems the term has different meanings. I read this here.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/joy.php"Latterly planets have been said to "joy" in certain Houses: Saturn, in the Twelfth; Jupiter, in the Eleventh;Mars, in the Sixth; Venus, in the Fifth; Mercury, in the First; the Sun, in the Tenth; the Moon, in the Third.
It is also said that the Sun and Jupiter "joy" in each other's Houses, as do Saturn and Mercury, and Venus andthe Moon. All of which added together leaves the term in ill-repute, and generally in disuse among modern
astrologers. The term has a certain merit and might well be restored, if confined to the congeniality of a planet
in a House. In that way it can be said that Dignity and Debility result from Sign placement, and Joy from House
placement."
Is that all that I need to know?

BTW, you don't need to make any points over and over again.
Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 22:55 [UT]:
But for accuracy's sake I have to point out that traditionally astrologers would never have called Mars the ruler of the 8th house. Mars was
the domicile ruler or lord of Scorpio but was not called any sort of 'ruler' of the 8th.

When you want to add, you can just say what's new for the sake of brevity. I think it would be a favor to thepeople who read this thread later. I'm not saying that you are necessarily the only one bulking up this thread
unnecessarily, but I can't speak for others on how worthy their ideas are of taking up so much space. I am notthem and if I already knew whatever they knew, I wouldn't be reading their posts.
Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #145 - on: 02.01.2011 at 02:31 [UT] »Quote from a chair on 02.01.2011 at 02:18 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 22:55 [UT]:
You will also find that Saturn is associated with the 8th due to assignation of the planets to the houses in the Chaldean
order,So are you backing up the possibility of some astrological truth being present in Noyab Nunca's
association between Capricorn and 8H?
I never learned the joys before. It seems the term has different meanings. I read this here.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/joy.php"Latterly planets have been said to "joy" in certain Houses: Saturn, in the Twelfth; Jupiter, in the Eleventh; Mars, in the Sixth; Venus, inthe Fifth; Mercury, in the First; the Sun, in the Tenth; the Moon, in the Third.
It is also said that the Sun and Jupiter "joy" in each other's Houses, as do Saturn and Mercury, and Venus and the Moon. All of which
added together leaves the term in ill-repute, and generally in disuse among modern astrologers. The term has a certain merit and mightwell be restored, if confined to the congeniality of a planet in a House. In that way it can be said that Dignity and Debility result from
Sign placement, and Joy from House placement."
Is that all that I need to know?

BTW, you don't need to make any points over and over again.
Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 22:55 [UT]:
But for accuracy's sake I have to point out that traditionally astrologers would never have called Mars the ruler of the 8thhouse. Mars was the domicile ruler or lord of Scorpio but was not called any sort of 'ruler' of the 8th.
When you want to add, you can just say what's new for the sake of brevity. It would be a favor to the people who read this thread later.
I'm not saying that you are necessarily the only one bulking up this thread unnecessarily, but I can't speak for others on how worthy theirideas are of taking up so much space. I am not them and if I already knew whatever they knew, I wouldn't be reading their posts.

The planets in Chaldean order were assigned to the houses. That doesn't mean that the signs they ruled were.

I'm satisfied with the way I'm going about it. Repetition is necessary in an age of impatient skimming. If I had
a way of making it much more enjoyable with puppets and happy music I might give that a shot.
Back to top

IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #146 - on: 02.01.2011 at 02:55 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:
You say you don't believe that Scorpio and the 8th can be separated, yet it has been shown that Western horoscopic astrology did not
develop with a 'natural' connection of affinity between signs and houses. So you are not wanting to separate elements that originally andfor nearly 2000 years weren't even connected.

Where?, and not Houlding again as her book suggests there was a connection if you analyse it closely enough.
...........and please stop saying Signs use Images, or I will be even more certain you have Helios, Kronos andHermes in the Fishes.
Back to top
IP Logged
MOIRASQUAREDEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #147 - on: 02.01.2011 at 03:42 [UT] »Just have to step my mind out of the 8th house pool for a moment, to thank you all for keeping this debate
lively and diverted as usual!
Crustacean in Transited Retreat

Ad 8thHappy New Year to all,
Moira
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #148 - on: 02.01.2011 at 03:47 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 02.01.2011 at 02:55 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:
You say you don't believe that Scorpio and the 8th can be separated, yet it has been shown that Western horoscopic
astrology did not develop with a 'natural' connection of affinity between signs and houses. So you are not wanting toseparate elements that originally and for nearly 2000 years weren't even connected.

Where?, and not Houlding again as her book suggests there was a connection if you analyse it closely enough.
...........and please stop saying Signs use Images, or I will be even more certain you have Helios, Kronos and Hermes in the Fishes.

I hope a chair doesn't get annoyed with me for repeating myself. (That makes for an odd sentence.) I was
asked, after all.
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1289406642/17#17 Reply #17.
The signs are of Babylonian origin. The houses are later Hellenistic Greek. The two concepts did not develop
together. The houses are based on the relationship of the Asc to the other 11 signs. There is no natural Aries
as first sign first house. As I said, the signs already existed. The Hellenistic astrologers drummed up the ideaof the all-important Asc. They also came up with each succeeding sign demarcating a house. It all depended
on whatever sign was rising at the moment.
Ms. Houlding's book makes no such sign/house 'natural' connection. She is well known for her views against
such an historical association.
Back to top
IP Loggeda chair

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #149 - on: 02.01.2011 at 04:07 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 03:47 [UT]:
I hope a chair doesn't get annoyed with me for repeating myself. (That makes for an odd sentence.) I was asked, after all.

It was merely a suggestion. Decide what's important for yourself.
Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #150 - on: 02.01.2011 at 04:20 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:There is something else from reply #126 that I've been wanting to reply to:
Quote from Ms. Miranda on 01.01.2011 at 01:39 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 00:13 [UT]:
I find your idea of the 8th and hidden talents to be very interesting. I hadn't heard that before. I can see it
most strongly with an 8th house Sun. I like the idea very much – but then I have an 8th house Sun, so
perhaps I like the hopefulness the idea brings.
I get more of a 12th house feeling from your statement:“Secrets also covers the realm of detective work. I think of 8th housers as hiding in the bushes watchingwhat the neighbors are up to, odd people skulking about the hood... that sort of things. Surveillance,
perhaps?”

Posts: 3684
Gender:I'm not sure, though. This does become pretty confusing. I do get the feeling you are moving into Scorpio
territory. I would tend to think that people engaged in those activities have Scorpio prominent in theircharts. For example, a Scorpio Sun or Mars in the 10th house. Or the 1st house, with Scorpio rising.
What I've tried, or at least wanted, to say all along is that I believe too much is being given over to thehouses. Qualities, motivations, the manner of acting are more in the dynamics of planets and houses.

Well, I'm not sure exactly what the aversion is I'm picking up on from you to the 8thhouse sounding like Scorpio. I don't believe that you can separate the two, myself,
and the truth is I view it as a filter. I find there is a connection myself. But that is not to say that all planetsin the 8th house are going to behave in a Scorpio manner. Not what I'm implying. I'm talking about

experiences, paths, and opportunities, doors, gifts, challenges, even...

You say you don't believe that Scorpio and the 8th can be separated, yet it has been shown that Western horoscopic astrology did not
develop with a 'natural' connection of affinity between signs and houses. So you are not wanting to separate elements that originally andfor nearly 2000 years weren't even connected.

Also, you are blurring and confusing the qualities of signs with house significations. You are disregarding the standard manner of using
signs and houses.
This is from this site's introduction to astrology:“As we mentioned earlier, the astrological houses show us which spheres or aspects of life receive more weight
than others in a horoscope. Each astrological house stands for a particular sphere. The house division of a horoscope varies from person toperson, since it is calculated according to the exact time of birth and the geographic position of the place of birth.”http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house1_e.htm

This is from Alan Oken's Complete Astrology (1980):“If the planets are the WHAT of astrology and the signs the HOW, the Houses are considered the
WHERE. Where in the person's life, in which area of earthly existence, does the energy indicated by the planet-sign configurations
manifest itself with the greatest intensity?”

And from C. E. O. Carter's The Principles of Astrology, 5th edition (1963):“Every department of human life falls under one or other of the Twelve Houses. They are channels, so to speak, throughwhich man enters into relationship with his environment. They have more distinct reference tophysical things than the planets and signs, which are connected rather with the character anddisposition. Yet mind, emotions, body, and circumstances act and re-act continuously and we cannot say definitely that any factor of
the horoscope is exclusively related to any one of these only.”
We could all provide many more such quotes.
Your imagination is running away with you. You are giving all sorts of sign qualities to the houses. Unfortunately, it seems to be based on
faulty knowledge of how the elements of a chart are used. Signs, planets, aspects and houses serve their distinct purposes in chartdelineation.

Since you seem to adore the quote... I'll give you one:
"Imagination is infinitely more valuable than knowledge." Albert Einstein
As for the rest of your post, it's redundant and you appear to not be interested in anything but reiterating an
inaccurate perception of what you think you are reading.
Back to top
IP Logged

vertex

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #151 - on: 02.01.2011 at 04:31 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:This is from this site's introduction to astrology:“As we mentioned earlier, the astrological houses show us which spheres or aspects of life receive more weight

Posts: 5575
Gender:than others in a horoscope. Each astrological house stands for a particular sphere. The house division of a horoscope varies from person toperson, since it is calculated according to the exact time of birth and the geographic position of the place of birth.”http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house1_e.htm

This is from Alan Oken's Complete Astrology (1980):“If the planets are the WHAT of astrology and the signs the HOW, the Houses are considered the
WHERE. Where in the person's life, in which area of earthly existence, does the energy indicated by the planet-sign configurations
manifest itself with the greatest intensity?”

The quotes you provided here do not assert that the houses don't have a natural association with a sign.
Having a natural association (sharing certain common underlying/core themes) doesn't mean they are thesame. Yes, I believe the 8th house/h sign/planet J share certain common core themes, but that does not
meanA in the 8th = A in h. A natural association of house/sign/planet does in no way imply they are exactly
the same.
Signs simply describe the "style" of how a planet is expressed, in other words signs modify a type of energy.
The type of energy (or the what) are represented by planets. Houses represents different areas of life thoseenergies are expressed, the where. However, none of this implies that sign/planet/house cannot have common
core themes.

Just for clarity, my comments are independent of Miranda's comments.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #152 - on: 02.01.2011 at 04:33 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 02.01.2011 at 04:20 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:There is something else from reply #126 that I've been wanting to reply to:
Quote from Ms. Miranda on 01.01.2011 at 01:39 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 00:13 [UT]:
I find your idea of the 8th and hidden talents to be very interesting. I hadn't heard that before.
I can see it most strongly with an 8th house Sun. I like the idea very much – but then I havean 8th house Sun, so perhaps I like the hopefulness the idea brings.
I get more of a 12th house feeling from your statement:“Secrets also covers the realm of detective work. I think of 8th housers as hiding in the bushes
watching what the neighbors are up to, odd people skulking about the hood... that sort ofthings. Surveillance, perhaps?”
I'm not sure, though. This does become pretty confusing. I do get the feeling you are moving
into Scorpio territory. I would tend to think that people engaged in those activities have Scorpio
prominent in their charts. For example, a Scorpio Sun or Mars in the 10th house. Or the 1sthouse, with Scorpio rising.
What I've tried, or at least wanted, to say all along is that I believe too much is being given
over to the houses. Qualities, motivations, the manner of acting are more in the dynamics ofplanets and houses.

Well, I'm not sure exactly what the aversion is I'm picking up on from you to

the 8th house sounding like Scorpio. I don't believe that you can separate
the two, myself, and the truth is I view it as a filter. I find there is a connection myself.
But that is not to say that all planets in the 8th house are going to behave in a Scorpio manner. Not what
I'm implying. I'm talking about experiences, paths, and opportunities, doors,

gifts, challenges, even...

You say you don't believe that Scorpio and the 8th can be separated, yet it has been shown that Western horoscopic
astrology did not develop with a 'natural' connection of affinity between signs and houses. So you are not wanting toseparate elements that originally and for nearly 2000 years weren't even connected.

Also, you are blurring and confusing the qualities of signs with house significations. You are disregarding the standard
manner of using signs and houses.
This is from this site's introduction to astrology:“As we mentioned earlier, the astrological houses show us which spheres or aspects of life
receive more weight than others in a horoscope. Each astrological house stands for a particular sphere. The house divisionof a horoscope varies from person to person, since it is calculated according to the exact time of birth and the geographic
position of the place of birth.”http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house1_e.htm

This is from Alan Oken's Complete Astrology (1980):“If the planets are the WHAT of astrology and the signs the HOW, the Houses are
considered the WHERE. Where in the person's life, in which area of earthly existence, does the energy indicatedby the planet-sign configurations manifest itself with the greatest intensity?”

And from C. E. O. Carter's The Principles of Astrology, 5th edition (1963):“Every department of human life falls under one or other of the Twelve Houses. They are channels, so to

speak, through which man enters into relationship with his environment. They havemore distinct reference to physical things than the planets and signs, which areconnected rather with the character and disposition. Yet mind, emotions, body, and circumstances
act and re-act continuously and we cannot say definitely that any factor of the horoscope is exclusively related to any oneof these only.”
We could all provide many more such quotes.
Your imagination is running away with you. You are giving all sorts of sign qualities to the houses. Unfortunately, it seems
to be based on faulty knowledge of how the elements of a chart are used. Signs, planets, aspects and houses serve their
distinct purposes in chart delineation.

Since you seem to adore the quote... I'll give you one... consider it a hidden talent to practice this one:

"Imagination is infinitely more valuable than knowledge." Albert Einstein

Oh dear, that old quote again. It seems to be a favorite.
Imagination running free doesn't do much good in buying a house, applying for a job, or delineating a natal
chart in a manner that the chart native can relate to. They may already think of themselves as well-describedby the qualities conventionally assigned to Pisces, but if you start imagining their brand of Pisces as bold,brash, aggressive and violent you're going to have them very confused. If imagination were truly more
important than knowledge you wouldn't be so eager to maintain the Scorpio-8th house connection that you've
learned from others. A true appreciation of imagination would let you see the 8th as sometimes like Taurus,
sometimes like Gemini, or Libra, or like a cupcake with pink frosting, or whatever comes to mind.

Back to top
IP Logged
Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th hMike NEx Member« Reply #153 - on: 02.01.2011 at 04:40 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 03:47 [UT]:

Ms. Houlding's book makes no such sign/house 'natural' connection. She is well known for her views against such an historical association.

Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 03:47 [UT]:.
Ms. Houlding's book makes no such sign/house 'natural' connection. She is well known for her views against such an historical association.

Natural ? Yes it does make these connections whether she wanted it to, or is happy about it, is anothermatter!!
We've been here before it's to do with finding the psychology in the topics. For example - 3rd house = shortjourneys. So what does this mean? In the old days some astros thought it meant just that getting a bus to see
your Aunt Maud, these days (hopefully) we know better it describes a curiosity about your more immediate
environment - the doings and comings and goings within it.
From Houlding's site :http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h3.html''Letters, rumours, reports, messages and messengers. Communications generally. Newspapers, magazines,
telephones, postal service. Written deeds and contracts. Speeches and debates. Our ability to express ourselvesand communicate to others. Languages, mobility skills and self-expression. ''If you don't think these topics are related to how a Gemini functions then you have an unusual idea about
Gemini.
The trick is not to conflate the how (Gemini) with the where (3rd house).
Here's a chart Zappo. Can you tell me what this person did non stop as soon as she was able and what quite
remarkable talent she has? Bordering on the genius!!
Back to top

astro_w2gw_19_sybil_hp.15693.4460.gif (attachment
deleted)IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #154 - on: 02.01.2011 at 04:47 [UT] »Quote from vertex on 02.01.2011 at 04:31 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:This is from this site's introduction to astrology:“As we mentioned earlier, the astrological houses show us which spheres or aspects of life
receive more weight than others in a horoscope. Each astrological house stands for a particular sphere. The house divisionof a horoscope varies from person to person, since it is calculated according to the exact time of birth and the geographic
position of the place of birth.”http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house1_e.htm

This is from Alan Oken's Complete Astrology (1980):“If the planets are the WHAT of astrology and the signs the HOW, the Houses are
considered the WHERE. Where in the person's life, in which area of earthly existence, does the energy indicatedby the planet-sign configurations manifest itself with the greatest intensity?”

The quotes you provided here do not assert that the houses do not have a natural association
with a sign. Having an association (sharing certain common underlying themes) doesn't mean they are the same. Yes, I believe thehJ

A in the 8th = A in h. A natural association of

8th house/sign/planet
share certain common core themes, but that does not mean
house/sign/planet does in no way imply they are exactly the same.

Signs simply describe the "style" of how a planet is expressed, in other words signs modify a type of energy. The type of energy (or thewhat) are represented by planets. Houses represents different areas of life those energies are expressed, the where. However, none of this
implies that sign/planet/house cannot have common core themes.

Just for clarity, my comments are independent of Miranda's comments.

The quotes weren't meant to show that there is no sign/house correlation. I included them to point out thestandard practice of precision in how the signs and houses are used differently, in contrast to Ms. Miranda's
mush of things and qualities - to put it simply. It's hard to know when she is talking about a sign and when ahouse.
I think few here are saying that signs and houses are exactly the same. But there is the assumption thathouses 1, 2, 3, etc. are naturally associated with and similar to signs 1, 2, 3. That is known to not be the case.
They didn't develop that way. More importantly, if you read the works from over nearly 2000 thousand years
you won't find anyone working with them in that way. And then came the modern astrologers of the late 19thand 20th centuries . . . . . . . .
Back to top
IP Logged

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th hZappoIIEx Member« Reply #155 - on: 02.01.2011 at 04:58 [UT] »Quote from Mike N on 02.01.2011 at 04:40 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 03:47 [UT]:

Ms. Houlding's book makes no such sign/house 'natural' connection. She is well known for her views against such an
historical association.

Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 03:47 [UT]:.
Ms. Houlding's book makes no such sign/house 'natural' connection. She is well known for her views against such an
historical association.

Natural ? Yes it does make these connections whether she wanted it to, or is happy about it, is another matter!!
We've been here before it's to do with finding the psychology in the topics. For example - 3rd house = short journeys. So what does thismean? In the old days some astros thought it meant just that getting a bus to see your Aunt Maud, these days (hopefully) we know better
it describes a curiosity about your more immediate environment - the doings and comings and goings within it.
From Houlding's site :http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h3.html''Letters, rumours, reports, messages and messengers. Communications generally. Newspapers, magazines, telephones, postal service.
Written deeds and contracts. Speeches and debates. Our ability to express ourselves and communicate to others. Languages, mobility
skills and self-expression. ''If you don't think these topics are related to how a Gemini functions then you have an unusual
idea about Gemini.
The trick is not to conflate the how (Gemini) with the where (3rd house).
Here's a chart Zappo. Can you tell me what this person did non stop as soon as she was able and what quite remarkable talent she has?
Bordering on the genius!!

We've been here before.

The 3rd is the house of the Moon's joy, an ancient astrological consideration. The

Moon has ancient associations with writing, messages, and travel. For all those activities the Moon was always
considered in ancient electional astrology.
In addition the 3rd is a cadent house. Cadent means falling - - the sign in the 3rd has fallen from the angle(4th house) because of the ongoing clockwise diurnal motion. If something is falling then it's moving: If it's
moving it can, through its movement, bring things in contact with each other. Are you perhaps getting aGemini feel here without bringing Gemini into the picture?
Back to top

IP Logged

Mike NEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #156 - on: 02.01.2011 at 05:11 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 04:58 [UT]:
We've been here before.

The 3rd is the house of the Moon's joy, an ancient astrological consideration. The Moon has ancientassociations with writing, messages, and travel. For all those activities the Moon was always considered in ancient electional astrology.
In addition the 3rd is a cadent house. Cadent means falling - - the sign in the 3rd has fallen from the angle (4th house) because of theongoing clockwise diurnal motion. If something is falling then it's moving: If it's moving it can, through its movement, bring things incontact with each other. Are you perhaps getting a Gemini feel here without bringing Gemini into the picture?

You may not have been here when we took the Joys apart and concluded they may well stem from theclockwise, not more common anti-clockwise, zodiac. I digress.
However you want to script 3rd house topical similarities to Geminian dispositions, and do this for all the otherhouses, is irrelevant isn't it as they bear certain similarities and become useful mnemonics when thinking abouthouse meanings. This is however dependent on whether you see a scope as a peculiar, and impossible, symbolof the 'psyche'.
Anyway put your medieval schemata on me chart and see what it can reveal to you . What is going on in thethird house here ? Between you and me I've always been a little puzzled as to why this person has such aremarkable talent in this area, you may well find something useful!!
Back to top
IP Logged
Noyab Nunca

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #157 - on: 02.01.2011 at 05:54 [UT] »Thanks for letting me share earlier. I'm sorry to not have the chance for further discussion on this thread but I
must leave before infected by the toxic virus' present.

Back to top

IP Logged

vertex
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #158 - on: 02.01.2011 at 06:01 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 04:47 [UT]:
Quote from vertex on 02.01.2011 at 04:31 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:This is from this site's introduction to astrology:

Posts: 5575
Gender:“As we mentioned earlier, the astrological houses show us which spheres or aspects of life receive moreweight than others in a horoscope. Each astrological house stands for a particular sphere. The house divisionof a horoscope varies from person to person, since it is calculated according to the exact time of birth andthe geographic position of the place of birth.”http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house1_e.htm

This is from Alan Oken's Complete Astrology (1980):“If the planets are the WHAT of astrology and the signs the HOW, the Houses are considered the WHERE.
Where in the person's life, in which area of earthly existence, does the energy indicated by the planet-signconfigurations manifest itself with the greatest intensity?”

The quotes you provided here do not assert that the houses do not have a natural association with a sign. Having anhassociation (sharing certain common underlying themes) doesn't mean they are the same. Yes, I believe the 8th house/sign/planet
share certain common core themes, but that does not meanin the 8th =in. A natural association

J

A

A

h

of house/sign/planet does in no way imply they are exactly the same.
Signs simply describe the "style" of how a planet is expressed, in other words signs modify a type of energy. The type ofenergy (or the what) are represented by planets. Houses represents different areas of life those energies are expressed,
the where. However, none of this implies that sign/planet/house cannot have common core themes.

Just for clarity, my comments are independent of Miranda's comments.

The quotes weren't meant to show that there is no sign/house correlation. I included them to point out the standard practice of precision in
how the signs and houses are used differently, in contrast to Ms. Miranda's mush of things and qualities - to put it simply. It's hard toknow when she is talking about a sign and when a house.

I think few here are saying that signs and houses are exactly the same. But there is theassumption that houses 1, 2, 3, etc. are naturally associated with and similar to signs 1, 2, 3.
That is known to not be the case. They didn't develop that way. More importantly, if you read the works from over nearly
2000 thousand years you won't find anyone working with them in that way. And then came the modern astrologers of the late 19th and20th centuries . . . . . . . .

You are (also) making the wrong assumptions. If someone is saying that houses 1,2,3, etc are naturally
associated with/similar to/have common core themes to signs 1,2,3 etc does not mean they are saying they areexactly the same/equal. Natural association means sharing certain common core themes which implies there
would be certain similarities, but that does not mean they are the same.
Perhaps it is easier for me to see the natural association with sign/house/planet because I conceptualize them(sign/house/planet) as keywords/themes.
Sure, if one believes thus perceive Ah (or any of other signs of the A) acts only in stereotypes-as opposed
to keywords, it may be harder to see that A in the 8th share common core themes/certain similarities as A inh.
If a description of A in 8th may sound similar (or share certain similarities) to the A in h (obviously so, sinceh/8th house/J do share common core themes) that does not mean it is automatically wrong nor does in any
way imply A in 8th=A in h (they are not the same because h is a style or modifier, 8th house is an area)
If this repetition is not enough, I might have to bust out with those hand puppets and happy music...
Back to top
IP Logged
Ghost

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #159 - on: 02.01.2011 at 06:31 [UT] »Quote from Noyab Nunca on 02.01.2011 at 05:54 [UT]:Thanks for letting me share earlier. I'm sorry to not have the chance for further discussion on this thread but I must leave before infectedby the toxic virus' present.

It's a basic fact that the universe gives back to you, what you put out, is it not?
You can't really generalize and negatively stereotype a large group of people based on their astrologicalplacements, and not expect someone to get upset and hit you over the head with your own nonsense.
You also said, that what people see in others, is what is true of themselves, right?
Then, mirror, mirror, virus.
I smell projection amongst all the other BS you're spewing.
Back to top

IP Logged

Stormlaughter
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #160 - on: 02.01.2011 at 06:39 [UT] »Quote from Penguin Trauma on 30.12.2010 at 01:05 [UT]:Haven't read all the posts on here, only the first three or four, but I did read the article posted by the OP.
Reading through the article, she goes at great lengths to discuss how people with prominent 8th house placements 'feels others suffering'.
And deeply at that.
So in short, 8th housers are empaths. I would have thought that was more of a

Posts: 518

I/12th house thing?

I'm quite curious about that now, can any 8th housers confirm this? Do you literally feel the emotions of others, or absorb their energies?

Gender:To add: I would have thought the most important house would be dependent on the chart. Mine is 2nd house - three planet stellium with
Venus at home there.

Sag Sun in 8th. Absolutely I'm an energy sucker, but that part might be better for another thread.
When I was growing up, I devised a way to body-dowse so I could determine if emotions I was being overwashed with were my own or someone else's. It was quite odd when I realized that all the negativity aroundme wasn't pointed at me, only some of it. It was comforting to learn how distinguish between my feelings andother people's feelings. And as often as I felt it prudent, I would double check with the person whose feelings I
suspected I was hosting for verification. Virtually 100% accuracy.
I've been told I remove pain from people, actually take the pain energy itself away. FWIW, distance doesn't
seem to be a factor in any way. Sitting next to me or half a world away, if the energy link is there I can get theenergy.
Of course, once I've got all that energy, I have to do something with it. I easily get overloaded with nasty
energy, very easily. It seems to exacerbate general over-stimulation for me.
My "Virgo Sun/Uranus/Pluto conj in 8th" friend and I are energetically beating each other to pieces right now
completely unintentionally. He's also got Mercury there in 8th but not part of the conj. We're a mess together.

Nice to be able to make each other feel better even at the tremendous distance between us though.
I'm pretty Watery and Earthy, lowest in Air. Air-folks seem to just set my 8th House Sag Sun ablaze. Such anice change.
Back to top
IP Logged
vertexMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #161 - on: 02.01.2011 at 06:41 [UT] »Quote from Ghost on 02.01.2011 at 06:31 [UT]:
Quote from Noyab Nunca on 02.01.2011 at 05:54 [UT]:Thanks for letting me share earlier. I'm sorry to not have the chance for further discussion on this thread but I must leave
before infected by the toxic virus' present.

Posts: 5575
Gender:It's a basic fact that the universe gives back to you, what you put out, is it not?
You can't really generalize and negatively stereotype a large group of people based on their astrological placements, and not expect
someone to get upset and hit you over the head with your own nonsense.
You also said, that what people see in others, is what is true of themselves, right?
Then, mirror, mirror, virus.
I smell projection amongst all the other BS you're spewing.

Really stop this...
I think it is best to yield before characterizing Noyab as "evil negative projection/astrological BS lady" for that
one thread in the "Post your chart tell us your story" There are negative projections/abuse with astrological BS
going on all over the forum, consistently by the same people (although executed more indirectly) and she is
not any more guilty of negative projection than maybe 85% of the people here. It is unfair to single her out
when I have seen her, in other threads, be very helpful to people and share great astrological insight (not BS
or at the very least, much less BS than the average poster here)
Back to top

IP Logged

GhostEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #162 - on: 02.01.2011 at 07:15 [UT] »Quote from vertex on 02.01.2011 at 06:41 [UT]:
Quote from Ghost on 02.01.2011 at 06:31 [UT]:
Quote from Noyab Nunca on 02.01.2011 at 05:54 [UT]:Thanks for letting me share earlier. I'm sorry to not have the chance for further discussion on this thread but
I must leave before infected by the toxic virus' present.

It's a basic fact that the universe gives back to you, what you put out, is it not?
You can't really generalize and negatively stereotype a large group of people based on their astrological placements, andnot expect someone to get upset and hit you over the head with your own nonsense.
You also said, that what people see in others, is what is true of themselves, right?
Then, mirror, mirror, virus.
I smell projection amongst all the other BS you're spewing.

Really stop this...
I think it is best to yield before characterizing Noyab as "evil negative projection/astrological BS lady" for that one thread in the "Post yourchart tell us your story" There are negative projections/abuse with astrological BS going on all over forum, consistently by the same
people and she is not any more guilty of negative projection than maybe 85% of the people here. It is unfair to single her out when I haveseen her, in rest of her posts in other threads, be very helpful to people and share great astrological insight (not BS).

I understand trying to step in and help someone, but honestly you're stepping in when you don't even know
what's going on.
My comments here have nothing to do with what occurred in another thread. I'm responding specifically to
attacks, stereotyping and generalizations made in this particular thread. With all due respect, reading back a bit
would be a good idea here.
I've also stepped in and have said things to others that made comments I felt were offensive. No one is being
singled out.
Sure, stereotyping and projection may be rampant on the boards - that doesn't somehow make it 'okay', bydefault.
Neither does occasionally offering 'help' or being 'nice'.
I'm not yielding, and I'm not taking anything back. I stand by everything I said.
Back to top
IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #163 - on: 02.01.2011 at 10:31 [UT] »if the 8th house be about transformation, then the question is what is being transformed.
take the axis 2nd /8th.
2nd house is of values, and in the sharing of these values in relationship, or the 8th house, we give our value
the test of another to validate. if it is taken and shredded then anger arises and a defense mechanism comes
into play. this is transformation in process. the value goes through a composting and new growth pertaining tothe original is seen. if on the other hand the value that is given and then shared and becomes as a common
value, then this strengthens the value and a closer bonding takes place. this is also transformation but in apositive way. neither negative or positive are constraints, but the value itself.
Posts: 3624

"If I gave you everything that I own
and asked for nothing in return
Would you do the same for me, as I would for you?
Or take me for a rideand strip me of everything, including my pride
But spirit is something that no one destroys"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRe42BDK_R4&feature=related
we can see where Scorpio is mixed within this, if looked closely with the analogy of Scorpio moon.
planets within this house are all but defined in the earlier years, but as time progresses, the definition isweighed against the world at large and becomes something of a reality for the bearer.

Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #164 - on: 02.01.2011 at 12:14 [UT] »Quote from vertex on 02.01.2011 at 06:01 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 04:47 [UT]:
Quote from vertex on 02.01.2011 at 04:31 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:This is from this site's introduction to astrology:“As we mentioned earlier, the astrological houses show us which spheres or aspects of life
receive more weight than others in a horoscope. Each astrological house stands for a particularsphere. The house division of a horoscope varies from person to person, since it is calculated
according to the exact time of birth and the geographic position of the place of birth.”http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house1_e.htm

This is from Alan Oken's Complete Astrology (1980):“If the planets are the WHAT of astrology and the signs the HOW, the Houses are considered
the WHERE. Where in the person's life, in which area of earthly existence, does the energy
indicated by the planet-sign configurations manifest itself with the greatest intensity?”

The quotes you provided here do not assert that the houses do not have a natural association with a sign.
Having an association (sharing certain common underlying themes) doesn't mean they are the same. Yes, I
believe the 8th house/sign/planet
share certain common core themes, but that does not meaninthe 8th =
same.

h
J
A
A in h. A natural association of house/sign/planet does in no way imply they are exactly the

Signs simply describe the "style" of how a planet is expressed, in other words signs modify a type ofenergy. The type of energy (or the what) are represented by planets. Houses represents different areas oflife those energies are expressed, the where. However, none of this implies that sign/planet/house cannot
have common core themes.

Just for clarity, my comments are independent of Miranda's comments.

The quotes weren't meant to show that there is no sign/house correlation. I included them to point out the standardpractice of precision in how the signs and houses are used differently, in contrast to Ms. Miranda's mush of things andqualities - to put it simply. It's hard to know when she is talking about a sign and when a house.

I think few here are saying that signs and houses are exactly the same. But there is
the assumption that houses 1, 2, 3, etc. are naturally associated with and similar tosigns 1, 2, 3. That is known to not be the case. They didn't develop that way. More importantly, if you
read the works from over nearly 2000 thousand years you won't find anyone working with them in that way. And thencame the modern astrologers of the late 19th and 20th centuries . . . . . . . .

You are (also) making the wrong assumptions. If someone is saying that houses 1,2,3, etc arenaturally associated with/similar to/have common core themes to signs 1,2,3 etc does not mean
they are saying they are exactly the same/equal. Natural association means sharing certain common core themes
which implies there would be certain similarities, but that does not mean they are the same.
Perhaps it is easier for me to see the natural association with sign/house/planet because I conceptualize them (sign/house/planet) as
keywords/themes.

Ah (or any of other signs of the A) acts only in stereotypes-as opposed to keywords, it may be
A in the 8th share common core themes/certain similarities as A in h.

Sure, if one believes thus perceive
harder to see that

A

A

h

h/8th house/J do shareh (they are not the sameIf a description of
in 8th may sound similar (or share certain similarities) to thein(obviously so, sincecommon core themes) that does not mean it is automatically wrong nor does in any way imply
in 8th=inAbecauseAh is a style or modifier, 8th house is an area)

If this repetition is not enough, I might have to bust out with those hand puppets and happy music...

What is the problem? You quoted me as saying that "I think few here are saying that signs and houses areexactly the same" and then you answer with "If someone is saying that houses 1,2,3, etc are naturally
associated with/similar to/have common core themes to signs 1,2,3 etc does not mean they are saying they areexactly the same/equal". I think there's the tendency around here to speed through a post and then dash off
one's own reply.
The point I later made was that the 8th and Scorpio are mistakenly assumed to be similar (but not exact)
because it is thought they should be similar, that the houses were developed with a corresponding natural
zodiac in mind. If you remove that mistaken idea there is no real reason for an 8th house/Scorpio connection.
Back to top
IP Logged

chang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #165 - on: 02.01.2011 at 12:21 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 12:14 [UT]:The point I later made was that the 8th and Scorpio are mistakenly assumed to be similar (but not exact) because it is thought theyshould be similar, that the houses were developed with a corresponding natural zodiac in mind. If you remove that mistaken idea there is
no real reason for an 8th house/Scorpio connection.

and in your humbled opinion, could you let it be known, which planet rules the house of the eight division.
please take into account the axis and its opposite elementals and modalities too. its zodiacal sign is also ofPosts: 3624

interest.

Back to top

IP Logged

Ms. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #166 - on: 02.01.2011 at 15:37 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 04:33 [UT]:

Since you seem to adore the quote... I'll give you one... consider it a hidden talent to practice this one:

"Imagination is infinitely more valuable than knowledge." Albert Einstein

Oh dear, that old quote again. It seems to be a favorite.

Imagination running free doesn't do much good in buying a house, applying for a job, ordelineating a natal chart in a manner that the chart native can relate to. They may already think ofthemselves as well-described by the qualities conventionally assigned to Pisces, but if you start imagining their brand of Pisces as bold,brash, aggressive and violent you're going to have them very confused. If imagination were truly more important than knowledge you

Posts: 3684
Gender:wouldn't be so eager to maintain the Scorpio-8th house connection that you've learned fromothers. A true appreciation of imagination would let you see the 8th as sometimes like Taurus, sometimes like Gemini, or Libra, or likea cupcake with pink frosting, or whatever comes to mind.

That's exactly what you are doing. Do you happen to have a Cancer moon?
No one said, "Imagination running free." That how you distort the truth, and create secrets from yourself.
That's how you protect yourself from something that creates shame or fear. You exhibit both of those about
the word "imagination."
You hear the word imagination and it's charged with emotions that you have not even contemplated. Your
experiences in life have given that word such a huge trigger. Can you imagine why? Who never valued it in you?
Dad? Because you possess it in droves. But you've developed a fear about it... "Letting go"? "Getting carried
away"? Being "vulnerable"? Letting people see your deep emotional truth that scary? What do you imagine will
happen if you actually utilize it? Will it kill you? Will it destroy you? Will people taught, tease or crush you?
How emotionally charged are you about the prospect of spending a whole day living in your imagination?
What's the worst thing that could happen? And who's the voice behind that? Because it ain't yours. It's yourimagination... It's that imaginary voice of a critical parent that keeps you locked up in a state of fear of yourtrue self, who you really are.
"All truths are half truths." Hermes said, and I'd say that that is an over estimation... There is absolute truth
which cannot be spoken. Then there is what you say, and finally the way you hear it.
You have no concept of how I see the 8th house or its relationship to Scorpio. None... And I'm allowing yourimagination to run away and distort my words, further and further from their original intent... Can you imagine
why?
Imagination is involved in ALL those things you mentioned. You wouldn't even send in a resume to a job if you
couldn't "imagine" what it was about. You wouldn't bother to go see the listing on a house if you couldn't
imagine if it was going to be worth seeing. You wouldn't buy one unless you couldn't imagine your life in it...
Especially if it had to be fixed up...
Back to top
IP Loggeda chair

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #167 - on: 02.01.2011 at 16:46 [UT] »I just had a thought. For those who do believe in connections between the zodiac and the houses and also
believe in the eighth house concerning transformation, wouldn't you think that transformation is probably moreof a mutability thing. I especially see a strong mutability theme running through what chang*ling just said in
their second to last post.
Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #168 - on: 02.01.2011 at 17:10 [UT] »Quote from a chair on 02.01.2011 at 16:46 [UT]:
I just had a thought. For those who do believe in connections between the zodiac and the houses and also believe in the eighth houseconcerning transformation, wouldn't you think that transformation is probably more of a mutability thing. I especially see a strong
mutability theme running through what chang*ling just said in their second to last post.

I think that is great question... And the thing that came up for me is that the reaction in the face of a choice is
one of the delinations. Mutability is more of a conscious choice or a willingness to "go with the flow." The 8thhouse experience is more about transformation/change that comes about through crisis that can show one how
and where they are hiding from necessary changes. "When an unstoppable force meets an immovable object",so to speak. It is the place where you limit your experience, you resist it. And that which we resist, persists,
until it either kills us or we change.
Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged
mikalek

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #169 - on: 02.01.2011 at 17:12 [UT] »Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 12:21 [UT]:

and in your humbled opinion, could you let it be known, which planet rules the house of the eight division. pleasetake into account the axis and its opposite elementals and modalities too. its zodiacal sign is also of interest.

It will depend on which sign the 8 house cusp is falling in.
Posts: 1473
Gender:So if say 8 house it falls in Libra. Then Venus is the ruler of 8.
And Venus will somehow be connected with 8 house stuff eg. Loss, fear, a love of and for the dangerous. underths skin experiences.
All depending on how this Venus shape is 'configurated'.
Venus in Gemini will be one mode of expression to 8 house matters.
Venus in another sign will express in another way.
....
edit. actually when being on 'house level ' of interpretation, it is better to just think of the house ruler, as beinga pointer! and disregarding that it is a planet with own meaning.

Back to top

IP Loggeda chair
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #170 - on: 02.01.2011 at 17:23 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 02.01.2011 at 17:10 [UT]:
Quote from a chair on 02.01.2011 at 16:46 [UT]:
I just had a thought. For those who do believe in connections between the zodiac and the houses and also believe in theeighth house concerning transformation, wouldn't you think that transformation is probably more of a mutability thing. I
especially see a strong mutability theme running through what chang*ling just said in their second to last post.

I think that is great question... And the thing that came up for me is that the reaction in the face of a choice is one of the delinations.
Mutability is more of a conscious choice or a willingness to "go with the flow." The 8th house experience is more abouttransformation/change that comes about through crisis that can show one how and where they are hiding from necessary changes. "Whenan unstoppable force meets an immovable object", so to speak. It is the place where you limit your experience, you resist it. And thatwhich we resist, persists, until it either kills us or we change.

Sorry, I edited this into that post before you responded.
Ms. Miranda, when you posted that quote, you were defending yourself. That quote wasn't within any context
and could have been interpreted in many ways but you gave it your own context by using it to defend yourself.
You were talking about yourself, not Einstein. Zappo was talking about you, not Einstein.
I'll take it out of the original post now.
I can see how what you just typed implies a challenge of fixedness rather than a challenge of mutability.
Back to top
IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #171 - on: 02.01.2011 at 17:40 [UT] »i can see that the transformation aspect could be seen as a mutable force, but it is fixed in its operation, totransform. maybe this is why it is element water.

Posts: 3624

Back to top

IP Logged

Ms. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #172 - on: 02.01.2011 at 17:59 [UT] »Quote from a chair on 02.01.2011 at 17:23 [UT]:
Quote from Ms. Miranda on 02.01.2011 at 17:10 [UT]:
Quote from a chair on 02.01.2011 at 16:46 [UT]:
I just had a thought. For those who do believe in connections between the zodiac and the houses and also
believe in the eighth house concerning transformation, wouldn't you think that transformation is probably
more of a mutability thing. I especially see a strong mutability theme running through what chang*ling justsaid in their second to last post.

I think that is great question... And the thing that came up for me is that the reaction in the face of a choice is one of thedelinations. Mutability is more of a conscious choice or a willingness to "go with the flow." The 8th house experience ismore about transformation/change that comes about through crisis that can show one how and where they are hiding fromnecessary changes. "When an unstoppable force meets an immovable object", so to speak. It is the place where you limit
your experience, you resist it. And that which we resist, persists, until it either kills us or we change.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Sorry, I edited this into that post before you responded.
Ms. Miranda, when you posted that quote, you were defending yourself. That quote wasn't within any context and could have beeninterpreted in many ways but you gave it your own context by using it to defend yourself. You were talking about yourself, not Einstein.
Zappo was talking about you, not Einstein.
I'll take it out of the original post now.
I can see how what you just typed implies a challenge of fixedness rather than a challenge of mutability.

Quote from a chair on 02.01.2011 at 16:46 [UT]:
Ms. Miranda, when you posted that quote, you were defending yourself. That quote wasn't within any context and could have beeninterpreted in many ways but you gave it your own context by using it to defend yourself. You were talking about yourself, not Einstein.
Zappo was talking about you, not Einstein.

All anyone is ever doing here is defending themselves, Chair. Everyone who has contributed has shown us theirdefended ego, working out aspects of self that are in conflict. People are either defending or hopping on
something that affirms their position. It's all the same polarity.
Zappo was talking about himself. You are talking about yourself and yes, I'm talking about my self. You
cannot speak for anyone but yourself. Everyone is defending a position here, even when we agree with eachother.
Back to top
IP Loggeda chair

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #173 - on: 02.01.2011 at 18:12 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 02.01.2011 at 17:59 [UT]:Zappo was talking about himself. You are talking about yourself and yes, I'm talking about my self. You cannot speak for anyone but
yourself. Everyone is defending a position here, even when we agree with each other.

Well, more specifically, he was talking about what you have said and have caused to appear in his
consciousness. He was talking about the context that you gave to the Einstein quote. He did not distort themeaning of the quote, he just wasn't talking about only the quote.
Back to top

IP Logged

Ms. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #174 - on: 02.01.2011 at 18:21 [UT] »Quote from a chair on 02.01.2011 at 18:12 [UT]:
Quote from Ms. Miranda on 02.01.2011 at 17:59 [UT]:Zappo was talking about himself. You are talking about yourself and yes, I'm talking about my self. You cannot speak
for anyone but yourself. Everyone is defending a position here, even when we agree with each other.
Well, more specifically, he was talking about what you have said and have caused to appear in his consciousness.

I have caused nothing, really. It would be nice if I had that kind of power. Intoxicating, in fact.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged

mikalek

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #175 - on: 02.01.2011 at 20:09 [UT] »Kids
Please...

Posts: 1473
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

truegem620
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #176 - on: 02.01.2011 at 20:57 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 01.01.2011 at 23:51 [UT]:

We don't need yet another thread. That's the problem: Numerous threads and short attention spans.
The blurring of signs, houses and planets is right at the heart of this 8th house discussion. Disagreement - disagreement with sources andscholarship behind it - isn't welcome in this 'anything goes' and 'everybody-can-right-because-they-thought-of-it' environment.

Posts: 4466
Gender:There's something a little fishy about that statement.
We see things quite differently in that regard. There are many threads here that are being prematurely rippedfrom the original premise in order to serve your 'everyone is blurring signs, houses, and planets...' paranoia. . .
is that in which you refer to? It would appear that you are getting a little crabby, and that you prefer to keep
your argument moving side-ways... and fragmented.

Back to top
IP Logged
Ghost

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #177 - on: 02.01.2011 at 21:06 [UT] »Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 10:31 [UT]:
if the 8th house be about transformation, then the question is what is being transformed.
take the axis 2nd /8th.
2nd house is of values, and in the sharing of these values in relationship, or the 8th house, we give our value the test of another tovalidate. if it is taken and shredded then anger arises and a defense mechanism comes into play. this is transformation in process. thevalue goes through a composting and new growth pertaining to the original is seen. if on the other hand the value that is given and thenshared and becomes as a common value, then this strengthens the value and a closer bonding takes place. this is also transformation but
in a positive way. neither negative or positive are constraints, but the value itself.
"If I gave you everything that I own
and asked for nothing in return
Would you do the same for me, as I would for you?
Or take me for a rideand strip me of everything, including my pride
But spirit is something that no one destroys"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRe42BDK_R4&feature=related
we can see where Scorpio is mixed within this, if looked closely with the analogy of Scorpio moon.
planets within this house are all but defined in the earlier years, but as time progresses, the definition is weighed against the world atlarge and becomes something of a reality for the bearer.

Not really.
This isn't about defense mechanisms or Noyab supposedly being correct and 'hitting a nerve'. It's about being
offended at mocking and generalizing people with particular natal placements. In general most people tend to
not like being referred to as 'weird' and then stereotyped and attacked.
In fact, Noyab didn't like it themselves either when I returned the favor - he/she got rather nasty in response
before beating a hasty retreat out of the thread. So, according to your logic, does that mean I was correct
about him/her and that's why they went on the attack?
And the astrological aspect of my response was valid. The eighth house is linked to a lot of things - otherpeople's money, being one of them. So if I approach Venus in the 8th from the same simplistic, stereotypicalmindset as he/she approached other's natal placements and start making broad statements, then yes, one
interpretation of that placement would be 'gold-digger'.
I said what I said, and did what I did, to make a point. I did so, and now I'm done with this.
And my Moon isn't in Scorpio, it's in Libra, conjunct Pluto. Similar in some ways, but not the same thing.
Back to top

IP Logged

chang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #178 - on: 02.01.2011 at 21:46 [UT] »Quote from Ghost on 02.01.2011 at 21:06 [UT]:
Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 10:31 [UT]:
if the 8th house be about transformation, then the question is what is being transformed.
take the axis 2nd /8th.
2nd house is of values, and in the sharing of these values in relationship, or the 8th house, we give our value the test ofanother to validate. if it is taken and shredded then anger arises and a defense mechanism comes into play. this istransformation in process. the value goes through a composting and new growth pertaining to the original is seen. if on theother hand the value that is given and then shared and becomes as a common value, then this strengthens the value and acloser bonding takes place. this is also transformation but in a positive way. neither negative or positive are constraints,
but the value itself.

Posts: 3624

"If I gave you everything that I own
and asked for nothing in return
Would you do the same for me, as I would for you?
Or take me for a rideand strip me of everything, including my pride
But spirit is something that no one destroys"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRe42BDK_R4&feature=related
we can see where Scorpio is mixed within this, if looked closely with the analogy of Scorpio moon.
planets within this house are all but defined in the earlier years, but as time progresses, the definition is weighed against
the world at large and becomes something of a reality for the bearer.

Not really.
This isn't about defense mechanisms or Noyab supposedly being correct and 'hitting a nerve'. It's about being offended at mocking andgeneralizing people with particular natal placements. In general most people tend to not like being referred to as 'weird' and thenstereotyped and attacked.
In fact, Noyab didn't like it themselves either when I returned the favor - he/she got rather nasty in response before beating a hasty
retreat out of the thread. So, according to your logic, does that mean I was correct about him/her and that's why they went on the attack?

And the astrological aspect of my response was valid. The eighth house is linked to a lot of things - other people's money, being one ofthem. So if I approach Venus in the 8th from the same simplistic, stereotypical mindset as he/she approached other's natal placements
and start making broad statements, then yes, one interpretation of that placement would be 'gold-digger'.
I said what I said, and did what I did, to make a point. I did so, and now I'm done with this.
And my Moon isn't in Scorpio, it's in Libra, conjunct Pluto. Similar in some ways, but not the same thing.

i do not understand your response to my post here. it seems you are mixed up with something and are now
trying to involve me. the manner in which you are implying, pertaining towards certain matters, is quite
uncalled for. please refrain from doing so.
Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #179 - on: 02.01.2011 at 22:17 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 02.01.2011 at 15:37 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 04:33 [UT]:

Since you seem to adore the quote... I'll give you one... consider it a hidden talent to practice this one:

"Imagination is infinitely more valuable than knowledge." Albert Einstein

Oh dear, that old quote again. It seems to be a favorite.

Imagination running free doesn't do much good in buying a house, applying for a job,or delineating a natal chart in a manner that the chart native can relate to. They may
already think of themselves as well-described by the qualities conventionally assigned to Pisces, but if you start imagining
their brand of Pisces as bold, brash, aggressive and violent you're going to have them very confused. If imagination were
truly more important than knowledge you wouldn't be so eager to maintain the Scorpio-8th houseconnection that you've learned from others. A true appreciation of imagination would let you see the 8th
as sometimes like Taurus, sometimes like Gemini, or Libra, or like a cupcake with pink frosting, or whatever comes tomind.

That's exactly what you are doing. Do you happen to have a Cancer moon?
No one said, "Imagination running free." That how you distort the truth, and create secrets from yourself. That's how you

protect yourself from something that creates shame or fear. You exhibit both of those about theword "imagination."
You hear the word imagination and it's charged with emotions that you have not evencontemplated. Your experiences in life have given that word such a huge trigger. Can you
imagine why? Who never valued it in you? Dad? Because you possess it in droves. But you've
developed a fear about it... "Letting go"? "Getting carried away"? Being "vulnerable"? Letting
people see your deep emotional truth that scary? What do you imagine will happen if you actually
utilize it? Will it kill you? Will it destroy you? Will people taught, tease or crush you? How
emotionally charged are you about the prospect of spending a whole day living in yourimagination? What's the worst thing that could happen? And who's the voice behind that?
Because it ain't yours. It's your imagination... It's that imaginary voice of a critical parent thatkeeps you locked up in a state of fear of your true self, who you really are.
"All truths are half truths." Hermes said, and I'd say that that is an over estimation... There is absolute truth which cannot be spoken.
Then there is what you say, and finally the way you hear it.
You have no concept of how I see the 8th house or its relationship to Scorpio. None... And I'm allowing your imagination to run away anddistort my words, further and further from their original intent... Can you imagine why?
Imagination is involved in ALL those things you mentioned. You wouldn't even send in a resume to a job if you couldn't "imagine" what it
was about. You wouldn't bother to go see the listing on a house if you couldn't imagine if it was going to be worth seeing. You wouldn't
buy one unless you couldn't imagine your life in it... Especially if it had to be fixed up...

Ms. Miranda,
You've learned some simplistic psychology and rattle it off as a way to win battles. What you wrote about me
could apply to anyone you want to apply it to - there's nothing about it that makes it specific to me. You giveno reasons for you conclusions. You just want to win and dominate through judging someone who disagrees
with you, using supposed 'insight'. Your attempt at insight makes for boring reading that most around here
probably don't want to be bothered with.
I'm a big fan of imagination. I very much respect and admire the work of James Hillman and Thomas Moore in
the field of Archetypal Psychology. I couldn't say if Dad had anything to do with that, however.

Imagination is highly important. It often leads to knowledge. Those dreamy thoughts, those 'I wonder if'
moments of imagination lead to investigation, experimentation and knowledge. But too much unguided andundirected imagination leads to undisciplined chaos and groundless fantasy, especially when driven by fear or
the desire for escape.

Quote:You have no concept of how I see the 8th house or its relationship to Scorpio.

I've been pointing out that there is no 8th house relationship to Scorpio in the creation and development ofastrology until quite recently (except for medical astrology). You and others can go right ahead and imagine aconnection, but that doesn't make it correct to say that there is any sort of natural connection that goes backto due to an overlap of the principles of the signs and houses and which goes back to the origins of horoscopic
astrology.
Back to top

IP Logged

chang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #180 - on: 02.01.2011 at 22:32 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 22:17 [UT]:
I've been pointing out that there is no 8th house relationship to Scorpio in the creation and development of astrology
until quite recently (except for medical astrology).

you gonna have to rewrite the greeks understanding too of you keep this up.

Posts: 3624

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac
even the Babylonians used the scorpion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_zodiac
Among the most ancient constellations are those that marked the four cardinal points of the year in the Middle
Bronze Age, i.e.
Taurus "The Bull", from GU4.AN.NA "The Steer of Heaven", marking vernal equinox
Leo "The Lion", from UR.GU.LA "The Lion", marking summer solstice
Scorpius "The Scorpion", from GIR.TAB "The Scorpion", marking autumn equinox
Capricornus "Goat-Horned", from SUḪUR.MAŠ "The Goat-Fish", marking winter solstice. It is a mythologicalhybrid depicted on boundary stones from before 2000 BC as a symbol of Ea.

Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #181 - on: 02.01.2011 at 22:46 [UT] »Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 22:32 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 22:17 [UT]:
I've been pointing out that there is no 8th house relationship to Scorpio in the creation and developmentof astrology until quite recently (except for medical astrology).

you gonna have to rewrite the greeks understanding too of you keep this up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac
even the Babylonians used the scorpion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_zodiac

So you give me a bunch of stuff to read about the zodiac? Did you bother to carefully read what I wrote? Youeven highlighted it. The issue is about an alleged natural connection between the zodiac and thehouses of horoscopic astrology, which was developed later.

http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1289406642/17#17 Reply #17.
Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #182 - on: 02.01.2011 at 22:50 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 22:46 [UT]:
Did you bother to carefully read what I wrote?

this is not about you or is it?
Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 12:21 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 12:14 [UT]:

Posts: 3624

The point I later made was that the 8th and Scorpio are mistakenly assumed to be similar (but not exact) because it isthought they should be similar, that the houses were developed with a corresponding natural zodiac in mind. If you removethat mistaken idea there is no real reason for an 8th house/Scorpio connection.
and in your humbled opinion, could you let it be known, which planet rules the house of the eight division.

please take into account the axis and its opposite elementals and modalities too. its zodiacal
sign is also of interest.

then answer this question.
Back to top
IP Logged

vertex

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #183 - on: 02.01.2011 at 23:04 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 12:14 [UT]:
Quote from vertex on 02.01.2011 at 06:01 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 04:47 [UT]:
Quote from vertex on 02.01.2011 at 04:31 [UT]:

Posts: 5575
Gender:Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 01:40 [UT]:This is from this site's introduction to astrology:“As we mentioned earlier, the astrological houses show us which spheres or aspectsof life receive more weight than others in a horoscope. Each astrological housestands for a particular sphere. The house division of a horoscope varies from person
to person, since it is calculated according to the exact time of birth and thegeographic position of the place of birth.”http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house1_e.htm
This is from Alan Oken's Complete Astrology (1980):“If the planets are the WHAT of astrology and the signs the HOW, the Houses are
considered the WHERE. Where in the person's life, in which area of earthly
existence, does the energy indicated by the planet-sign configurations manifest
itself with the greatest intensity?”
The quotes you provided here do not assert that the houses do not have a natural association
with a sign. Having an association (sharing certain common underlying themes) doesn't mean
they are the same. Yes, I believe the 8th house/sign/planet
share certain common core

A

h
A h

J

themes, but that does not meanin the 8th =in. A natural association ofhouse/sign/planet does in no way imply they are exactly the same.
Signs simply describe the "style" of how a planet is expressed, in other words signs modify atype of energy. The type of energy (or the what) are represented by planets. Houses represents
different areas of life those energies are expressed, the where. However, none of this implies
that sign/planet/house cannot have common core themes.
Just for clarity, my comments are independent of Miranda's comments.
The quotes weren't meant to show that there is no sign/house correlation. I included them to point out thestandard practice of precision in how the signs and houses are used differently, in contrast to Ms. Miranda's
mush of things and qualities - to put it simply. It's hard to know when she is talking about a sign and whena house.

I think few here are saying that signs and houses are exactly the same. But
there is the assumption that houses 1, 2, 3, etc. are naturally associatedwith and similar to signs 1, 2, 3. That is known to not be the case. They didn't
develop that way. More importantly, if you read the works from over nearly 2000 thousand years you won't
find anyone working with them in that way. And then came the modern astrologers of the late 19th and 20th
centuries . . . . . . . .

You are (also) making the wrong assumptions. If someone is saying that houses
1,2,3, etc are naturally associated with/similar to/have common core themes to signs
1,2,3 etc does not mean they are saying they are exactly the same/equal. Natural
association means sharing certain common core themes which implies there would be certain similarities, but that does notmean they are the same.
Perhaps it is easier for me to see the natural association with sign/house/planet because I conceptualize them(sign/house/planet) as keywords/themes.

AhA

Sure, if one believes thus perceive(or any of other signs of the) acts only in stereotypes-as opposed to keywords,
it may be harder to see thatin the 8th share common core themes/certain similarities asin.

A

If a description of

J
A h

A

h

A in 8th may sound similar (or share certain similarities) to the A in h (obviously so, since h/8th
A inhhouse/
do share common core themes) that does not mean it is automatically wrong nor does in any way imply
8th=
in(they are not the same because
is a style or modifier, 8th house is an area)
If this repetition is not enough, I might have to bust out with those hand puppets and happy music...

What is the problem? You quoted me as saying that "I think few here are saying that signs and houses are exactly the same" and then you
answer with "If someone is saying that houses 1,2,3, etc are naturally associated with/similar to/have common core themes to signs 1,2,3
etc does not mean they are saying they are exactly the same/equal". I think there's the tendency around here to speed through a post andthen dash off one's own reply.
The point I later made was that the 8th and Scorpio are mistakenly assumed to be similar (but not exact) because it is thought theyshould be similar, that the houses were developed with a corresponding natural zodiac in mind. If you remove that mistaken idea there is
no real reason for an 8th house/Scorpio connection.

ZappoII,
Re: first paragraph. Are you that confused or are you purposely causing confusion?
Re: second paragraph. Your only proof that there is no natural association houses/signs is that the association
was not known/ conceptualized centuries ago. Also, just because something wasn't known in ancient times,
those modern concepts can't be natural or they are false, imagined? I am not going to bother with obvious
medical/science analogies...
It is getting really tedious having these circular arguments w/ you.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #184 - on: 02.01.2011 at 23:06 [UT] »Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 22:50 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 22:46 [UT]:

Did you bother to carefully read what I wrote?
this is not about you or is it?
Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 12:21 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 12:14 [UT]:The point I later made was that the 8th and Scorpio are mistakenly assumed to be similar (but not exact)
because it is thought they should be similar, that the houses were developed with a corresponding natural
zodiac in mind. If you remove that mistaken idea there is no real reason for an 8th house/Scorpio
connection.
and in your humbled opinion, could you let it be known, which planet rules the house of theeight division. please take into account the axis and its opposite elementals andmodalities too. its zodiacal sign is also of interest.
then answer this question.

Mikalek answered it in reply #169.
There is no 'natural' ruler of houses. No planets and no signs are general rulers of the houses.
In individual charts there are planetary rulers which are derived from the signs wherein the house cusp isplaced. In Whole Sign houses the entire sign itself is the house and the domicile lord (the sign ruler) is the lordof the house (or house ruler).
Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #185 - on: 02.01.2011 at 23:21 [UT] »Replies to Vertex:
Quote:
It is getting really tedious having these circular arguments w/ you.

Then why do you persist? Did someone tell you that you must engage?

Quote:Your only proof that there is no natural association houses/signs is that the association was not known/ conceptualized centuries ago. Just
because something wasn't known in ancient times it can't be natural? I am not going to bother with obvious medical/science analogies...

Astrology is a human creation. It wasn't discovered. And what “obvious” medical/science analogies?
Humans discovered the composition of Venus's atmosphere and the temperature of the Sun. Humans
created the significations of astrological Venus, gave her Taurus and Libra to rule, and made her contentedly
exalted in Pisces. So what's this nonsense about them not knowing about sign/house associations? They would
have known very well the astrological system they created, not discovered.
[ADDED LATER:] The Hellenistic Greeks say nothing in their works about Scorpio and the 8th house, Venus andthe 2nd, or Leo and the 5th – and they're the folks who created horoscopic astrology for us based on some
Bablyonian ideas. Same with the later Arab astrologers who built upon the Hellenistic. And the later medieval
European astrologers. There was nothing there for them to 'discover' about signs and houses.
Back to top

IP Logged

truegem620
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #186 - on: 02.01.2011 at 23:22 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:06 [UT]:
Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 22:50 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 22:46 [UT]:

Did you bother to carefully read what I wrote?
this is not about you or is it?

Posts: 4466
Gender:Quote from chang*ling on 02.01.2011 at 12:21 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 12:14 [UT]:The point I later made was that the 8th and Scorpio are mistakenly assumed to be similar (butnot exact) because it is thought they should be similar, that the houses were developed with acorresponding natural zodiac in mind. If you remove that mistaken idea there is no real reason
for an 8th house/Scorpio connection.
and in your humbled opinion, could you let it be known, which planet rules the houseof the eight division. please take into account the axis and its opposite
elementals and modalities too. its zodiacal sign is also of interest.
then answer this question.

Mikalek answered it in reply #169.
There is no 'natural' ruler of houses. No planets and no signs are general rulers of the houses.
In individual charts there are planetary rulers which are derived from the signs wherein the house cusp is placed. In Whole Sign houses theentire sign itself is the house and the domicile lord (the sign ruler) is the lord of the house (or house ruler).

From post #169Quote:...8 house stuff eg. Loss, fear, a love of and for the dangerous. under ths skin experiences

Where do these ideas derive from?
Why is the 8th house not associated with superficial dynamics?
Back to top
IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #187 - on: 02.01.2011 at 23:25 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:21 [UT]:

Astrology is a human creation. It wasn't discovered. And what “obvious” medical/science analogies?
Humans discovered the composition of Venus's atmosphere and the temperature of the Sun. Humans created the significations ofastrological Venus, gave her Taurus and Libra to rule, and made her contentedly exalted in Pisces. So what's this nonsense about them notknowing about sign/house associations? They would have known very well the astrological system they created, not discovered.

Posts: 3624

if you understood the changing of the seasons you would understand the astrological signification better.
equinox and solstice is not man made but marks a time in the yearly clock to denote a certain activity thatshould be attended to.
metaphysics is another plane of understanding that is a lot deeper than star gazing at its best.
http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/calendar/index.htm#seasons
Quote from truegemini62073 on 02.01.2011 at 23:22 [UT]:From post #169Quote:...8 house stuff eg. Loss, fear, a love of and for the dangerous. under ths skin experiences
Where do these ideas derive from?
Why is the 8th house not associated with superficial dynamics?

this is brilliant as it points to principles that must be adhered to and rules that follow.
Legend of the Grain of Wisdom
http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/grain/index.htm
are you going to prove you are not just another troll and give some corrective answers? ZappoII
Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #188 - on: 02.01.2011 at 23:37 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 22:17 [UT]:
Ms. Miranda,
You've learned some simplistic psychology and rattle it off as a way to win battles. What you wrote about me could apply to anyone youwant to apply it to - there's nothing about it that makes it specific to me. You give no reasons for you conclusions. You just want to win
and dominate through judging someone who disagrees with you, using supposed 'insight'. Your attempt at insight makes forboring reading that most around here probably don't want to be bothered with.
I'm a big fan of imagination. I very much respect and admire the work of James Hillman and Thomas Moore in the field of Archetypal
Psychology. I couldn't say if Dad had anything to do with that, however.
Quote:You have no concept of how I see the 8th house or its relationship to Scorpio.

Posts: 3684
Gender:I've been pointing out that there is no 8th house relationship to Scorpio in the creation and development of astrology until quite recently(except for medical astrology). You and others can go right ahead and imagine a connection, but that doesn't make it correct to say that
there is any sort of natural connection that goes back to due to an overlap of the principles of the signs and houses and which goes back to
the origins of horoscopic astrology.

Your continued cultivation of the illusion that "others" are in your corner. That takes a lot of groundless fantasy.
However, you are the one who continues to read my stuff, and respond... Boredom is a sign of overwhelm. But
I doubt you are bored. You weren't bored enough to keep your opiniond to yourself, after all.
You're not that complicated, Zappo, and I have to talk to you in a language you can understand, which is why
simplistic "psychology" works at winning arguments with you. You bite the bait... over and over and over... andyou fail to see your part in the relationship and how you like to get hooked into something that challenges yourideas and sense of safty. You love the "fight". You can't live without it. And when you can't win, you call it"boring" which is the emotional equivalent of "I"m taking my ball home." C'est dommage. It's all sport to me.
If you were arguing another opinion, I'd take the opposite just to see you squrim a bit... Haven't you figuredthat our yet? It's a Saggy moon... Can't you smell it in the air?
Quote:
Imagination is highly important. It often leads to knowledge. Those dreamy thoughts, those 'I wonder if' moments of imagination lead toinvestigation, experimentation and knowledge. But too much unguided and undirected imagination leads toundisciplined chaos and groundless fantasy, especially when driven by fear or the desire for
escape.

You prove Einstein's point in your statement. If you didn't have the "I wonder if" moment, you'd neverinvestigate in the first place.
And what do you care if anyone exhibits undisciplined chaos or groundless fantasy or likes to escape? What
danger is it to you? What is so threatening about it? Do you think that Hillman's experiences were all
groundless fantasy? I think I'm going to draft off of another idea presented here earlier and say there is a hintof paranoia in your commentary.
Back to top
IP Logged

ZappoII

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #189 - on: 02.01.2011 at 23:56 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 02.01.2011 at 23:37 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 22:17 [UT]:
Ms. Miranda,
You've learned some simplistic psychology and rattle it off as a way to win battles. What you wrote about me could apply
to anyone you want to apply it to - there's nothing about it that makes it specific to me. You give no reasons for you
conclusions. You just want to win and dominate through judging someone who disagrees with you, using supposed 'insight'.

Your attempt at insight makes for boring reading that most around here probably
don't want to be bothered with.
I'm a big fan of imagination. I very much respect and admire the work of James Hillman and Thomas Moore in the field ofArchetypal Psychology. I couldn't say if Dad had anything to do with that, however.
Quote:You have no concept of how I see the 8th house or its relationship to Scorpio.

I've been pointing out that there is no 8th house relationship to Scorpio in the creation and development of astrology until
quite recently (except for medical astrology). You and others can go right ahead and imagine a connection, but that
doesn't make it correct to say that there is any sort of natural connection that goes back to due to an overlap of theprinciples of the signs and houses and which goes back to the origins of horoscopic astrology.

Your continued cultivation of the illusion that "others" are in your corner. That takes a lot of groundless fantasy. However, you are the one
who continues to read my stuff, and respond... Boredom is a sign of overwhelm. But I doubt you are bored. You weren't bored enough tokeep your opiniond to yourself, after all.

You're not that complicated, Zappo, and I have to talk to you in a language you can understand,which is why simplistic "psychology" works at winning arguments with you. You bite the bait... over andover and over... and you fail to see your part in the relationship and how you like to get hooked into something that challenges your ideas
and sense of safty. You love the "fight". You can't live without it. And when you can't win, you call it "boring" which is the emotional
equivalent of "I"m taking my ball home." C'est dommage. It's all sport to me. If you were arguing another opinion, I'd take the opposite
just to see you squrim a bit... Haven't you figured that our yet? It's a Saggy moon... Can't you smell it in the air?
Quote:
Imagination is highly important. It often leads to knowledge. Those dreamy thoughts, those 'I wonder if' moments ofimagination lead to investigation, experimentation and knowledge. But too much unguided and undirected

imagination leads to undisciplined chaos and groundless fantasy, especially whendriven by fear or the desire for escape.

You prove Einstein's point in your statement. If you didn't have the "I wonder if" moment, you'd never investigate in the first place.
And what do you care if anyone exhibits undisciplined chaos or groundless fantasy or likes to escape? What danger is it to you? What is sothreatening about it? Do you think that Hillman's experiences were all groundless fantasy? I think I'm going to draft off of another idea
presented here earlier and say there is a hint of paranoia in your commentary.

Ms. Miranda,
Why do you make everyone else read your thoughts about me? They aren't here to learn about me, so yourtalents [ahem] are going to waste. However, we have a superbly stupid statement here which is worth
repeating:"You're not that complicated, Zappo, and I have to talk to you in a language you can understand, which is why
simplistic "psychology" works at winning arguments with you."
I hope you are as embarrassed as you should be.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #190 - on: 02.01.2011 at 23:59 [UT] »Reply #169 was not written by me. Two of you are addressing the wrong person in your search for answers.

Back to top
IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #191 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:02 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:59 [UT]:
Reply #169 was not written by me. Two of you are addressing the wrong person in your search for answers.

Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:06 [UT]:

Posts: 3624

Mikalek answered it in reply #169.
There is no 'natural' ruler of houses. No planets and no signs are general rulers of the houses.
In individual charts there are planetary rulers which are derived from the signs wherein the house cusp is placed. In Whole Sign houses theentire sign itself is the house and the domicile lord (the sign ruler) is the lord of the house (or house ruler).

are you playing dumb? it was your suggestion to check this post.
i am realizing you have no integrity. leave my posts well alone from now on, i will ignore yours.

Back to top

IP Logged

Ms. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #192 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:09 [UT] »Well, humans aren't that complicated. You are a human. And it takes a LOT of psychological study to figurethat out, Zappo.
I'll just point out that you have no problem having other people read your thoughts about me and mythoughts, after all. And you don't exhibit any shame about that. So why don't you take a little hit of your own"cure".

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #193 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:11 [UT] »Quote from chang*ling on 03.01.2011 at 00:02 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:59 [UT]:
Reply #169 was not written by me. Two of you are addressing the wrong person in your search for answers.

Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:06 [UT]:

Mikalek answered it in reply #169.
There is no 'natural' ruler of houses. No planets and no signs are general rulers of the houses.
In individual charts there are planetary rulers which are derived from the signs wherein the house cusp is placed. In Whole
Sign houses the entire sign itself is the house and the domicile lord (the sign ruler) is the lord of the house (or houseruler).
are you playing dumb? it was your suggestion to check his post.
i am realizing you have no integrity. leave my posts well alone from now on, i will ignore yours.

So ask him the questions.

I think someone is pouting. It's sure weird around here. A lot of very unpleasant and flighty people.
Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #194 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:15 [UT] »Quote from Ms. Miranda on 03.01.2011 at 00:09 [UT]:
Well, humans aren't that complicated. You are a human. And it takes a LOT of psychological study to figure that out, Zappo.

I'll just point out that you have no problem having other people read your thoughts about me andmy thoughts, after all. And you don't exhibit any shame about that. So why don't you take a little hit of your own "cure".

I do that, don't I!
I think the difference lies in my sentences about you and your paragraphs about me. I
inflict less boredom on the others. (. . . I like to think so, anyway.)
Back to top
IP Logged

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th hZappoIIEx Member« Reply #195 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:16 [UT] »Quote from chang*ling on 03.01.2011 at 00:12 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 03.01.2011 at 00:11 [UT]:
Quote from chang*ling on 03.01.2011 at 00:02 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:59 [UT]:
Reply #169 was not written by me. Two of you are addressing the wrong person in your search
for answers.

Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:06 [UT]:

Mikalek answered it in reply #169.
There is no 'natural' ruler of houses. No planets and no signs are general rulers of the houses.
In individual charts there are planetary rulers which are derived from the signs wherein thehouse cusp is placed. In Whole Sign houses the entire sign itself is the house and the domicile
lord (the sign ruler) is the lord of the house (or house ruler).
are you playing dumb? it was your suggestion to check his post.
i am realizing you have no integrity. leave my posts well alone from now on, i will

ignore yours.

So ask him the questions.

I think someone is pouting. It's sure weird around here. A lot of very unpleasant and flighty people.

you are pushing your luck buster.
what part did you not understand about my previous post. leave my posts alone.
Quote from chang*ling on 03.01.2011 at 00:02 [UT]:
are you playing dumb? it was your suggestion to check his post.

i am realizing you have no integrity. leave my posts well alone from now on, i will
ignore yours.

Buster? Do people still say that?
Back to top

IP Logged

mikalek
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #196 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:33 [UT] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 02.01.2011 at 23:22 [UT]:From post #169Quote:...8 house stuff eg. Loss, fear, a love of and for the dangerous. under ths skin experiences
Where do these ideas derive from?
Why is the 8th house not associated with superficial dynamics?

Posts: 1473
Gender:Can't answer that. I even can't explain why astrology works.
But I do believe that Signs tells about Inner workings, subjective.
and Houses is the Way this inner workings is meeting or interacting with the outer world. That houses andsigns are two different (not exclusive) levels of interpretation, the inner world or soul and the outer mundane
world, of interacting the inner with or against the outer and other people, Houses how the reality shapes orconfront our inner motivations, belongings, thoughts and feelings.
While I do believe that Signs and houses do have some things in common but still not the same, The Line isThin, so sometimes it is crossed.
A 8 house sun is not a scorpio sun. Because he will not feel and think like a scorpio will, but life will throw or
confront 8 house stuff against him, that may resemblence scorpio things or emotions he can't understand, andhe may start to project them outwards and blame others for his misfortune.

Back to top
IP Logged
mikalek

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #197 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:36 [UT] »Would wish that people would stay away from using the word 'YOU' !!!
It would solve a lot .
-Would a Gemini in 8 house would be the same as a Scorpio in 3rd. ?

Posts: 1473
Gender:Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #198 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:39 [UT] »Quote from mikalek on 03.01.2011 at 00:33 [UT]:
But I do believe that Signs tells about Inner workings, subjective.
and Houses is the Way this inner workings is meeting or interacting with the outer world. That houses and signs are to different levels ofinterpretation, the inner world or soul and the outer mundane world, of interacting the inner with or against the outer and other people,
Houses how the reality shapes or confront our inner motivations, belongings, thoughts and feelings.
While I do believe that Signs and houses do have some things in common but still not the same, The Line is Thin, so sometimes it iscrossed.
A 8 house sun is not a scorpio sun. Because he will not feel and think like a scorpio will, but life will throw or confront 8 house stuff
against him, that may resemblence scorpio things or emotions he can't understand, and will start to project them outwards and blame
others for his misfortune. --- hmm may be rambling about here..

Posts: 3624

nobody was arguing the point of eight house representing the Scorpio sun, but the house is designated with anunderlying theme given by the zodiacal sign of Scorpio itself.
Back to top
IP Logged
truegem620

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #199 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:51 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:59 [UT]:
Reply #169 was not written by me. Two of you are addressing the wrong person in your search for answers.

Then it is your own inability to stay within the context of which you set forth that you were referring to as'short attention spans' around here? I'm beginning to see your point.
you fail to realize the bait actually contains no hook

Posts: 4466
Gender:just a nice chunk of meat, so that you may substantiate your POV
instead you choose diversion tactics?
...I am beginning to question your motivation.

Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #200 - on: 03.01.2011 at 00:56 [UT] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 03.01.2011 at 00:51 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:59 [UT]:
Reply #169 was not written by me. Two of you are addressing the wrong person in your search for answers.
Then it is your own inability to stay within the context of which you set forth that you were referring to as- 'short attention spans' aroundhere? I'm beginning to see your point.
you fail to realize the bait actually contains no hookjust a nice chunk of meat, so that you may substantiate your POV
instead you choose diversion tactics?
...I am beginning to question your motivation.

Why did you come back just to derail the thread?
Back to top
IP Logged
Neplightly

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #201 - on: 03.01.2011 at 01:04 [UT] »Quote from mikalek on 03.01.2011 at 00:33 [UT]:
A 8 house sun is not a scorpio sun. Because he will not feel and think like a scorpio will, but life will throw or confront 8 house stuff
against him, that may resemblence scorpio things or emotions he can't understand, and he may start to project them outwards and blame
others for his misfortune.

Posts: 132
Gender:Very helpful illumination, mikalek..thank you. Also from your next post:"Would a Gemini in 8 house would be the same as a Scorpio in 3rd. ?"Back to top

IP Logged

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th hZappoIIEx Member« Reply #202 - on: 03.01.2011 at 01:10 [UT] »Quote from mikalek on 03.01.2011 at 00:33 [UT]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 02.01.2011 at 23:22 [UT]:From post #169Quote:...8 house stuff eg. Loss, fear, a love of and for the dangerous. under ths skin experiences
Where do these ideas derive from?
Why is the 8th house not associated with superficial dynamics?

Can't answer that. I even can't explain why astrology works.
But I do believe that Signs tells about Inner workings, subjective.
and Houses is the Way this inner workings is meeting or interacting with the outer world. That houses and signs are two different (notexclusive) levels of interpretation, the inner world or soul and the outer mundane world, of interacting the inner with or against the outerand other people, Houses how the reality shapes or confront our inner motivations, belongings, thoughts and feelings.
While I do believe that Signs and houses do have some things in common but still not the same, The Line is Thin, so sometimes it iscrossed.
A 8 house sun is not a scorpio sun. Because he will not feel and think like a scorpio will, but life will throw or confront 8 house stuff
against him, that may resemblence scorpio things or emotions he can't understand, and he may start to project them outwards and blame
others for his misfortune.

I think you're on the right track. You have a helpful awareness that we're working with different principles.
One important thing to always keep in mind is that there has been some serious changing of both house andsign significations in order to make them appear more similar. It seems to have been especially bad in thepast 25 years or so. So what you are seeing as sign/house crossover is, in truth, often the effects of altering
sign and house significations. The 8th house and sex is a good example. You won't find such an association
before the 20th century (or perhaps late 19th). Ideas of lusty steamy Scorpio have entered the 8th. Anotherexample is Taurus and money by way of the 2nd house.
To really clean up the house confusion read as many pre-20th century astrological works as you can. At leastpre-1970.
Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #203 - on: 03.01.2011 at 01:18 [UT] »Quote from mikalek on 03.01.2011 at 00:36 [UT]:
Would wish that people would stay away from using the word 'YOU' !!!
It would solve a lot .
-Would a Gemini in 8 house would be the same as a Scorpio in 3rd. ?

Gemini qualities would be active in the area of death, the money and possessions of others, inheritance, andpersonal fears.
Scorpio qualities would be active in the area of email, phone calls, siblings, and moving around within theimmediate environment.
That's all. It's quite simple, really.
Back to top

IP Logged

mikalek
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #204 - on: 03.01.2011 at 01:39 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 03.01.2011 at 01:10 [UT]:The 8th house and sex is a good example. You won't find such an association before the 20th century (or perhaps late 19th). Ideas of lusty
steamy Scorpio have entered the 8th. Another example is Taurus and money by way of the 2nd house.
To really clean up the house confusion read as many pre-20th century astrological works as you can. At least pre-1970.

I have From Lilly to C.O.Carter ( very good) and some Alan Leo and Lilwelyn, even some vedic, from where I
Posts: 1473
Gender:believe Lilly may have gotten something from.
In Vedic, Sex seems to be a 7house matter, victory in love, destruction of enemies, and secret sex affairs. I
would have expected 8 house ruling the secret part, but maybe the vedics doesn't give a damn, ' It is a Sex
affair, secret or not.'
Lilly according to my house list dosent mentions sex at all, but in 7 house he mentions wifes and sweethearts.
The christianity has censured it out. ? 5 house is love affairs, Venus has her joy in 5th.
Have not seen much altering of Signs through. Seems like the Vedic hardly uses signs much. And Lilly dealing
mainly with horary astrology mostly focuses on houses.

Back to top
IP Logged

mikalek

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #205 - on: 03.01.2011 at 01:45 [UT] »My question"Would a Gemini in 8 house be the same as a Scorpio in 3rd. ?"Was directed to those who says that Signs and houses are the same.

Posts: 1473
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #206 - on: 03.01.2011 at 01:47 [UT] »Quote from mikalek on 03.01.2011 at 01:45 [UT]:My question"Would a Gemini in 8 house be the same as a Scorpio in 3rd. ?"Was directed to those who says that Signs and houses are the same.

Oh well. Now they know how simple it is.

The 5th as the Venusian house of pleasure and delight does signify sex. You know -- going out on Saturdaynight and looking for some 'action'.

But a sexual relationship appears to be more 7th house.

Back to top
IP Logged
vertexMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #207 - on: 03.01.2011 at 02:03 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:21 [UT]:
Quote:Your only proof that there is no natural association houses/signs is that the association was not known/ conceptualized

Posts: 5575

centuries ago. Just because something wasn't known in ancient times it can't be natural? I am not going to bother withobvious medical/science analogies...

Gender:Astrology is a human creation. It wasn't discovered. And what “obvious” medical/science analogies?
Humans discovered the composition of Venus's atmosphere and the temperature of the Sun. Humans created the significations ofastrological Venus, gave her Taurus and Libra to rule, and made her contentedly exalted in Pisces. So what's this nonsense about them notknowing about sign/house associations? They would have known very well the astrological system they created, not discovered.

One diversion tactic after another..... After all that, you are just harping on "obvious medical/science analogies"
turning into a 'creation vs discovered' issue....
The direction I was going with medical/science analogies was scientific models that are designed, and thentested by observation. These models have changed over the centuries....
Ok... You are now claiming we are supposed to follow astrological significations of ancients because they areones who created the system (w/ disregard to the modern 'experience'), then it sounds a whole like religious
fundamentalism to me.
You now are making it a point Astrology is a just human creation, then it makes even more sense that thesecreated significations can change. The created models (signification) by the ancients are not absolute facts.
Waiting for the next diversion...

Back to top

IP Logged

ZappoII
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #208 - on: 03.01.2011 at 02:08 [UT] »Quote from vertex on 03.01.2011 at 02:03 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:21 [UT]:

Quote:Your only proof that there is no natural association houses/signs is that the association was not known/conceptualized centuries ago. Just because something wasn't known in ancient times it can't be natural? I
am not going to bother with obvious medical/science analogies...

Astrology is a human creation. It wasn't discovered. And what “obvious” medical/science analogies?
Humans discovered the composition of Venus's atmosphere and the temperature of the Sun. Humans created thesignifications of astrological Venus, gave her Taurus and Libra to rule, and made her contentedly exalted in Pisces. So
what's this nonsense about them not knowing about sign/house associations? They would have known very well the
astrological system they created, not discovered.

One diversion tactic after another..... After all that, you are just harping on "obvious medical/science analogies" turning into a 'creation vsdiscovered' issue....
The direction I was going with medical/science analogies was scientific models that are designed, and then tested by observation. Thesemodels have changed over the centuries....
Ok... If what you now assert that Astrology is just created by humans, then it makes even more sense that these created significations
can change. The created models (signification) by the ancients are not absolute facts.
You are claiming we are supposed to follow astrological significations of ancients because they are ones who created the system, then it
sounds a whole like religious fundamentalism to me.

Waiting for the next diversion...

Back in #183 you wrote: "It is getting really tedious having these circular arguments w/ you."

Why do you make yourself so miserable?
Some of you are trying your hardest to divert the thread.
Back to top
IP Logged
truegem620

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #209 - on: 03.01.2011 at 04:06 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 03.01.2011 at 00:56 [UT]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 03.01.2011 at 00:51 [UT]:
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:59 [UT]:
Reply #169 was not written by me. Two of you are addressing the wrong person in your search for answers.
Then it is your own inability to stay within the context of which you set forth that you were referring to as- 'short attention
spans' around here? I'm beginning to see your point.
you fail to realize the bait actually contains no hookjust a nice chunk of meat, so that you may substantiate your POV

Posts: 4466
Gender:instead you choose diversion tactics?
...I am beginning to question your motivation.

Why did you come back just to derail the thread?

Come back? What is your meaning by this?
Just cruising as a frequent flyer..
...and you give me way too much credit.
I could hardly hold the responsibility for the derailing of this thread.
Again you appear to be having difficulty seeing the larger picture?
Back to top

IP Logged

MOIRASQUAREDEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #210 - on: 03.01.2011 at 04:25 [UT] »Quote from mikalek on 03.01.2011 at 00:36 [UT]:
Would wish that people would stay away from using the word 'YOU' !!!
It would solve a lot .
-Would a Gemini in 8 house would be the same as a Scorpio in 3rd. ?

There's something about the difference between utilization and investigation that distinguishes these"imaginariums" for me. The first is too random for the depths; the second is too deep for the randoms.
Great hypothetical question though. Gemini rules my 8th cusp, but dA resides there. Can't get my mind outof my gutters?

Love you all to New Year's bitzy's and so glad I've been too otherwise wrapped up in my 8th house navel to joinin. Can't we all be civil in an appropriate, Capricornian way ... New Moon and all. You know how the Dienst
Hammer comes down when topics get too carried away ! I've made a New Years' resolution to please my 8thhouse soul, and stay out of the fray.
Grace in the Transits,
Moira
Back to top
IP Logged
libranlover

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #211 - on: 03.01.2011 at 04:35 [UT] »Moira,My astrological guide lady...
Posts: 181
Gender:I figure this post is appropriate for this question instead of a PM.
My Sun in the 7h is very close to the 8th cusp, with 5 degrees I believe.
I just read that would be considered in the 8h.
Any words?
Nice job on the peace-keeping. Makes this Libra proud...

Back to top

IP Logged

truegem620
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #212 - on: 03.01.2011 at 05:44 [UT] »Quote from libranlover on 03.01.2011 at 04:35 [UT]:Moira,My astrological guide lady...
I figure this post is appropriate for this question instead of a PM.
My Sun in the 7h is very close to the 8th cusp, with 5 degrees I believe.
I just read that would be considered in the 8h.

Posts: 4466
Gender:Any words?
Nice job on the peace-keeping. Makes this Libra proud...

If your A is five degrees from the cusp, I would strongly disagree that it should be/ would be considered to bein the 8th. My 11th house D is within 1 degree of the 12th house cusp. It makes sense to me that some
programs would interpret it in the 12th. IMHO however, it's still an 11th house venus, with strong 12th house
influence(based on close proximity).

Back to top
IP Logged

chang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #213 - on: 03.01.2011 at 09:23 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 03.01.2011 at 01:10 [UT]:
One important thing to always keep in mind is that there has been some serious changing of both house and sign significations in order tomake them appear more similar. It seems to have been especially bad in the past 25 years or so. So what you are seeing as sign/housecrossover is, in truth, often the effects of altering sign and house significations. The 8th house and sex is a good example. You won't findsuch an association before the 20th century (or perhaps late 19th). Ideas of lusty steamy Scorpio have entered the 8th. Another example
is Taurus and money by way of the 2nd house.
To really clean up the house confusion read as many pre-20th century astrological works as you can. At least pre-1970.

Posts: 3624

the sexual habit of the black widow spider is an eight house activity. transforming one life into many.
this can be said of the sexual act with humans too, becoming pregnant, i would imagine is very transformative
for the persons involved.
i would add that scorpio's association to body parts pertains to the genitals
your insistence that you are more learned than those that have appeared before you is tedious as is yourconstant traditionalist ideas that the outer planets have no functioning power upon the individual or mundane
level. maybe this is due to your religious indoctrination but i can only guess.
you have not answered my former question as to why the eight house has an underlying theme of Scorpio,
insisting Scorpio has has nothing at all to do with matters pertaining to the eight house, but answer tosomebodies question of "Would a Gemini in 8 house be the same as a Scorpio in 3rd."
to put things in perspective, this question is leading and cannot be answered as you have done so.
Gemini qualities would be active in the area of death, the money and possessions of others, inheritance, andpersonal fears.
Scorpio qualities would be active in the area of email, phone calls, siblings, and moving around within theimmediate environment.
if you do not agree with other peoples ideas, state that to be the case and move forward, but with thearguments and the wasting of other peoples time, you are not giving a coherent picture and therefor i surmisethat you are confused.
if you believe it to be your job to "clean up" as you so put it, then start by cleaning up your act. it is lackingtrue integrity and denies the others a right to believe as they so wish.
Quote from ZappoII on 02.01.2011 at 23:21 [UT]:[ADDED LATER:] The Hellenistic Greeks say nothing in their works about Scorpio and the 8th house, Venus and the 2nd, or Leo and the
5th – and they're the folks who created horoscopic astrology for us based on some Bablyonian ideas. Same with the later Arab astrologers
who built upon the Hellenistic. And the later medieval European astrologers. There was nothing there for them to 'discover' about signs
and houses.

here again you are placing hellenistic references before those that came before it. i suggest understanding
history would clear this matter up for you and others alike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster
Most importantly however, was their picture of Zoroaster as the sorcerer-astrologer non-plus-ultra, and indeed
as the "inventor" of both magic and astrology.
here the reference is spoken from a Hellenistic point of view.
Quote from ZappoII on 03.01.2011 at 00:15 [UT]:
I do that, don't I!
others. (I think the difference lies in my sentences about you and your paragraphs about me. I inflict less boredom on the. . . I like to think so, anyway.)

you inflict more than you are aware and the difference lies in your own ability to "think" before you bore otherswith the same trolling of threads.
Back to top

IP Logged

AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #214 - on: 03.01.2011 at 10:10 [UT] »I agree with Changling and go back to my initial point, which was, Mr. Zappoo (sic), get yourself a traditionalblog, and teach traditionality in astrology. This is where your energies will be most appreciated, believe me.
And do not assume that people haven't read the same stuff you have, or the stuff you're referring to. The
difference is, some of us rejected or chose to ignore it, or, more likely, hybridized it, long ago. In youropinion, that was a bad thing to do, but we do not all share your opinion.
Jesus. When will this being-forced-to-adhere-to-your-way-of-thinking-about-astrology end???
I smell a very pronounced J square to something in your natal. And do not suggest, please, that I have"come back," such an emotional perspective, to "derail a thread." No one "comes back" to a thread. It's not"home." It's a thread. People come and go at will. Think of it more as a bus station, and you'll be less invested.

This is why you need a blog. The more invested you find yourself in your own words, opinions, and beliefs, themore you need your own blog. You're already writing enough here to fuel a perfectly reasonable blog, and with
blogging, you can have "friends" and even make money! You could get a book contract!
It's a new year, and the potential for a NEW YOU.

Your future awaits!

Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #215 - on: 03.01.2011 at 11:31 [UT] »Is this the best you people can do?
It looks like you can respond to my words. Can you make anything worthwhile happen in your own lives?
Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #216 - on: 03.01.2011 at 11:34 [UT] »Quote from ZappoII on 03.01.2011 at 11:31 [UT]:Is this the best you people can do?
It looks like you can respond to my words. Can you make anything worthwhile happen in your own lives?

mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_White_and_Rose_Redin this fable the story is likened to "The Ungrateful Dwarf"
Posts: 3624

Back to top
IP Logged
ZappoIIEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #217 - on: 03.01.2011 at 12:02 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 03.01.2011 at 10:10 [UT]:
I agree with Changling and go back to my initial point, which was, Mr. Zappoo (sic), get yourself a traditional blog, and teach traditionality
in astrology. This is where your energies will be most appreciated, believe me.
And do not assume that people haven't read the same stuff you have, or the stuff you're referring to. The difference is, some of us
rejected or chose to ignore it, or, more likely, hybridized it, long ago.

In your opinion, that was a bad thing to do, but we

do not all share your opinion.
Jesus. When will this being-forced-to-adhere-to-your-way-of-thinking-about-astrology end???

J

I smell a very pronounced
square to something in your natal. And do not suggest, please, that I have "come back," such an
emotional perspective, to "derail a thread." No one "comes back" to a thread. It's not "home." It's a thread. People come and go at will.
Think of it more as a bus station, and you'll be less invested.
This is why you need a blog. The more invested you find yourself in your own words, opinions, and beliefs, the more you need your own
blog. You're already writing enough here to fuel a perfectly reasonable blog, and with blogging, you can have "friends" and even makemoney! You could get a book contract!

Your future awaits! It's a new year, and the potential for a NEW YOU.

Don't take something so good and trivialize it to match your own shortcomings. You have hit the bottom.
Back to top

IP Logged

MOIRASQUAREDEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #218 - on: 03.01.2011 at 14:05 [UT] »Quote from libranlover on 03.01.2011 at 04:35 [UT]:Moira,My astrological guide lady...
I figure this post is appropriate for this question instead of a PM.
My Sun in the 7h is very close to the 8th cusp, with 5 degrees I believe.
I just read that would be considered in the 8h.
Any words?
Nice job on the peace-keeping. Makes this Libra proud...

Libran, in case you've changed your birth-time & chart on me, your Moon's at 0 g on the 8th cusp, Sun at 4
g in side the 8th house, and all the rest of your cats following!
Are you using a different house method than Placidus? If so, compare a couple of house systems to see where
the Moon & Sun fall in each.
In my opinion, with a stellium like yours, a Libran planet in the 7th near the 8th with all the other Libranspacking the 8th would lead me to read it as an 8th house planet, or at least consider both. The Libran qualityof Moon & Sun are highly relationship oriented, so there's a blurr with a 7th house interpretation. In my
opinion your nature is very 8th house.
Peace in your New Year!
Back to top
IP Logged

a chairEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #219 - on: 04.01.2011 at 04:11 [UT] »I'm done reading these arguments. From what I recall, it seems to me that there never was any point in whichanyone asked anyone else to make clarifications about what they intended to express in all this arguing.
Perhaps that's why the arguments are circling and also, doesn't that say something about the intentions of thepeople arguing in general? There's more than just ideas tied up in this argument.
If anyone responds to this post I might take a gander. My winter break is over though.
Back to top

IP Logged

MOIRASQUAREDEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #220 - on: 04.01.2011 at 04:29 [UT] »a chair,
Call it Capricornian Warfare?
got enough going on in my own chart to take it out on anyone else, frankly!
If you can't be civil, just stay home and bide your manners alone. Seems like simple stuff, right?

Back to top
IP Loggeda chair

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #221 - on: 05.01.2011 at 00:41 [UT] »Well, everyone here has the right to criticize anyone, but they mostly just want to argue their point. Only
wanting to make your point doesn't make for a good two way conversation. I haven't been following any of thearguments as well as the arguments' participants have so I'm not going to make judgments but I saw someposts that I wasn't entirely sure how to interpret yet I saw the responder seemingly jump to their firstinterpretation of what was said. It makes me think that they didn't really want to understand that person'sidea. It's not productive. If you consider thoroughly and then ask questions before reacting, you canaccurately conclude more quickly.
I was thinking more like Leonine or fixed sign warfare though. It's like, "This is what I believe based on myexperience and I will fight for what I believe to my dieing breath!"
Back to top

IP Logged

MOIRASQUAREDEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #222 - on: 05.01.2011 at 05:15 [UT] »I know this is taking matters off topic ... or maybe not, as I've got so much going on transiting through my 8thhouse d sun -- let's call it filtering ... but ever since the Cap energy started taking hold (JKGg), the tone in
the forum's become very challenging. It is like a war-zone where one has to be prepared to defend not only
what one thinks, but why one even bothers to share. I've been criticized for my perspectives, my experiences,
my desire to actually express myself, my lack of intellectual accuracy, my accidental mis-spelling of a word, myover-emphasis on psychological philosophy, my fondness for poetry, my avatar ... hmmm anything else? Yeah!
I was accused by a forum member of feeding into an oedipal relationship with my father that traumatized mymother! Some free psycho-therapy there. I've been accused of being a troll, of being a duplicitous personality"who isn't all that she seems", of being mean-spirited, of being a whining confessional trauma case, of being
insensitive, of having an inappropriate sense of humor, and of being too esoteric ... ya'da'ya' ka'bling!
The forum has become a very cranky and hyper-critical place. There certainly could be other transit factors in
play, such as Neptune/Chiron conjunct at the late fixed degrees, so I have an open mind about it as that transit
also affects whatever planetary positions are left in my own chart, after the Cardinal transits are marked off mywheel. The Astro-Dienst forum event chart places Chiron in the early 7th, with Neptune/Chiron transiting now.
I think that deserves some analysis regarding difficulties in forum relationships, but also a possibility of reenvisioning/healing within the community. Pluto and all the Cappy's are transiting the early 6th house (if mymemory serves), which describes the nit-picking compulsive tone that pervades debates over whose system isbest, whose opinion is best, etcetera. ... ya'da'ya'ka'bling!
It's not all a bad experience, because there are comrades out here ... but I feel like we're scouting for landmines no matter where we thread. The forum is an organism like anything else; morphing through its changes.
It takes an open mind to roll with it, keep a sense of self-perspective during the rough times, and envision
what it might evolve into.
Plutonian Moi
Back to top
IP Logged

MaryonMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #223 - on: 05.01.2011 at 09:07 [UT] »hai Moirasquared it didn't read back the hole tread. Just wanted to say to you that I like the way you write, theway you try to think through things, the way you feel and deal and even when you over or under do it, is fineto read what you write. Thanks for that.
happy new year to you all
namaste Maryon (with A#C in 8 d).

Posts: 776
Gender:Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #224 - on: 05.01.2011 at 09:27 [UT] »Quote from a chair on 05.01.2011 at 00:41 [UT]:
Well, everyone here has the right to criticize anyone

critical thinking can be used for a purpose other than ridicule.
as moira has stated, a very tenth house affair. in this forums natal, D and B are resident. the tribunal of
psyche is in session. the auditors are unseen but still present.

Posts: 3624

Back to top
IP Logged

AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #225 - on: 05.01.2011 at 13:38 [UT] »Quote from MOIRASQUARED on 05.01.2011 at 05:15 [UT]:
I know this is taking matters off topic ... or maybe not, as I've got so much going on transiting through my 8th housed sun -- let's call

JKGg

it filtering ... but ever since the Cap energy started taking hold (), the tone in the forum's become very challenging. It is like a
war-zone where one has to be prepared to defend not only what one thinks, but why one even bothers to share. I've been criticized for myperspectives, my experiences, my desire to actually express myself, my lack of intellectual accuracy, my accidental mis-spelling of aword, my over-emphasis on psychological philosophy, my fondness for poetry, my avatar ... hmmm anything else? Yeah! I was accused bya forum member of feeding into an oedipal relationship with my father that traumatized my mother! Some free psycho-therapy there. I've
been accused of being a troll, of being a duplicitous personality "who isn't all that she seems", of being mean-spirited, of being a whining
confessional trauma case, of being insensitive, of having an inappropriate sense of humor, and of being too esoteric ... ya'da'ya' ka'bling!
The forum has become a very cranky and hyper-critical place. There certainly could be other transit factors in play, such as Neptune/Chiron
conjunct at the late fixed degrees, so I have an open mind about it as that transit also affects whatever planetary positions are left in myown chart, after the Cardinal transits are marked off my wheel. The Astro-Dienst forum event chart places Chiron in the early 7th, with
Neptune/Chiron transiting now. I think that deserves some analysis regarding difficulties in forum relationships, but also a possibility of reenvisioning/healing within the community. Pluto and all the Cappy's are transiting the early 6th house (if my memory serves), which
describes the nit-picking compulsive tone that pervades debates over whose system is best, whose opinion is best, etcetera. ...
ya'da'ya'ka'bling!
It's not all a bad experience, because there are comrades out here ... but I feel like we're scouting for land-mines no matter where wethread. The forum is an organism like anything else; morphing through its changes. It takes an open mind to roll with it, keep a sense of
self-perspective during the rough times, and envision what it might evolve into.
Plutonian Moi

Oh, hell, I've been accused of all those things too, long ago and at various times since. You left out being
criticised for use of font style... the font I once chose to use was criticised as being too hard to read. There is morethan one font available, yet we all, like lemmings, cling to this one stupid, boring one, I guess cause it's easyon the eyes or something (that was the only valid assertion put forth about preferring Verdana over others;
that people can actually read it).
Point is, I don't think the forum has "suddenly" become anything in particular; it's always been this way, fromas far back as I can remember. There were no golden days of yore here. I think what changes is one's sensitivity
to it. Eventually you just get sick of hearing negatives about yourself, as one does in real life too.
It's all perception. If someone perceives you negatively, it's a really important coping skill to just be able to let
it go and not take it so seriously. Personally, I think this forum exists as a karmic device to help us see just how
attached we all are to our words and thoughts, and to help us learn how to detach and take ourselves muchless seriously.
I mean, you can take yourself seriously at times; just not all the time. And you certainly should never let somestranger you've never met define who you are. That's completely unnecessary. Nor should some stranger you've
never met and barely spoken to be allowed to let you think badly about yourself, unless they've rubbed salt insome wound that you need to clean out anyway.
Think of the forum as an opportunity to self-assess with greater accuracy. It's a form of group therapy, it seems
to me, but can only be taken as seriously as you honestly believe the mirror it shows you in is uncracked andwhole. If you, like me, see the mirror they can hold up to you here at times as cracked, it's really hard to takethe messages of negativity entirely seriously. Explore their 'truth' up to a point, and then back away slowly anddo your own thinking. Ultimately, you belong to you, and no one who resides here and never follows you into
the shadowlands of where you actually live, behind the curtain, gets to comment. It's no one's business what
we all do back there, behind our individual curtains, or who we are when we get there, either. Nor can anyone
legitimately claim to know who that person is.... so ignore them, and like my AmFi/2nd father used to say,"keep your pecker up!"Such an annoying message to hear when you're an over-sensitive d adolescent, and yet, 30+ years down theroad.... I'm damned glad he kept saying it. It was exactly what my over-sensitivity needed to hear in thislifetime.
Back to top

IP Loggedchang*lingMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #226 - on: 05.01.2011 at 13:59 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 05.01.2011 at 13:38 [UT]:
I think this forum exists as a karmic device to help us see just how attached we all are to our words and thoughts, and to help us learn
how to detach and take ourselves much less seriously.

with copyright laws, people can be sued for plagiarism. what i say is my word. if my word is not with intent,
then i become vacuous.
there are points to consider that when something is unchangeable, then it is best left as it is, but if there is

Posts: 3624

understanding that something is changeable, then the pursuit of implementing change is worthy of effort.
being caught up with negative emotional spirals becomes something to beware of.
i have found myself being set against by my emotions that i would rather not have experienced, but i am
principled in believing in standing with my word at all times possible.
thoughts on the other hand i do not own, they pass like clouds.
Quote from a chair on 05.01.2011 at 00:41 [UT]:
I was thinking more like Leonine or fixed sign warfare though. It's like, "This is what I believe based on my experience and I will fight forwhat I believe to my dieing breath!"

if you do not believe you have the right to self governance then life is not worthy of any effort at all.
Back to top
IP Logged

MOIRASQUAREDEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #227 - on: 05.01.2011 at 17:01 [UT] »AmUsED,
Thanks so much for loaning me your mirror. It reflects well, and clearly.
I'm sure it could be my own perspective that the tone in the forum is different.

At any rate, it's certainly a different experience now, and provides new growing pains.
I fEeL LikE A tEEn-AGer aLL OveR AGain ?
Life in the Gawky Mirror !

SkuAwK !

Back to top

IP Logged

Ghost
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #228 - on: 05.01.2011 at 17:06 [UT] »Quote from chang*ling on 05.01.2011 at 09:27 [UT]:
Quote from a chair on 05.01.2011 at 00:41 [UT]:
Well, everyone here has the right to criticize anyone

critical thinking can be used for a purpose other than ridicule.
as moira has stated, a very tenth house affair. in this forums natal,

D and B are resident. the tribunal of psyche is in session. theauditors are unseen but still present.

Exactly. But a lot here fail to do that.
Back to top
IP Logged
Ms. Miranda

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #229 - on: 05.01.2011 at 17:16 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 05.01.2011 at 13:38 [UT]:...like my

AmFi/2nd father used to say, "keep your pecker up!"

I like your father's attitude AmFeH8

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top

IP Logged

vertexMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #230 - on: 05.01.2011 at 17:53 [UT] »Isn't it grand now that "evil" Zappo is gone finished de-railing and diverting, the thread is back on track about
the 8th house.

Posts: 5575
Gender:[ETA: I was being sarcastic here]

Amused...Don't be fooled. What happened to you is not what has happened to Moira. What she wrote is truly ajoke, a work of fiction. You were truly scapegoated for thinking outside the box. Moira is feigning victimhood.
And how obscene. She claiming to be a victim for the very things she has done to people or were said in
defense to her attacks or she knows what people think of her without it been ever been said.
Moira, In fairness to you, you are not the only person who has abused my chart aspects for power trips, andbeen involved in baiting, and planned attacks via PMs. Sure, you have been Team Captain many of the times,
which doesn't make you any less of an evil aggressor. However I don't want to make it seem you are being
blamed for being only one.

« Last Edit: 06.01.2011 at 15:55 [UT] by vertex »Back to top

IP Logged
AmusedEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #231 - on: 05.01.2011 at 18:18 [UT] »Now i'm very curious, vertex... what chart aspects are being misused or used against you?
This sounds unpleasant.
Back to top

IP Logged

vertex
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #232 - on: 05.01.2011 at 18:52 [UT] »Quote from Amused on 05.01.2011 at 18:18 [UT]:
Now i'm very curious, vertex... what chart aspects are being misused or used against you?
This sounds unpleasant.

Posts: 5575
Gender:I am debating whether it is worth getting into.... Let me think about....

Back to top
IP Logged
Noyab Nunca

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #233 - on: 05.01.2011 at 18:57 [UT] »I'd like to offer this nugget of wisdom that Cybele shared on the now-shut-down Bristol England Murder as
regards pervasive troublemakers...

"dont even think of addressing him then.... he cant actually do anything if you dont fall for his gamethe same goes for other trolls everywhere on the forum."So simply stated, yet so impactful.
Let your egos rest, gentle people, otherwise you will board the the train to Nowhere that these folks comefrom.
Back to top

IP Logged

mikalek
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #234 - on: 05.01.2011 at 20:14 [UT] »Quote from MOIRASQUARED on 03.01.2011 at 04:25 [UT]:
Quote from mikalek on 03.01.2011 at 00:36 [UT]:
Would wish that people would stay away from using the word 'YOU' !!!
It would solve a lot .
-Would a Gemini in 8 house would be the same as a Scorpio in 3rd. ?

Posts: 1473
Gender:There's something about the difference between utilization and investigation that distinguishes these "imaginariums" for me. The first is
too random for the depths; the second is too deep for the randoms.
Great hypothetical question though. Gemini rules my 8th cusp, but

dA resides there. Can't get my mind out of my gutters?

great.
Back to top
IP Logged
chatcat

Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #235 - on: 06.01.2011 at 01:50 [UT] »Quote from awareness on 19.12.2010 at 14:58 [UT]:
http://merliannews.com/Astrology_11/The_Mysteries_of_the_8th_House_House_of_Deat
h_Transformation_by_Carmen_Turner_Schott_MSW_LISW.shtml

Posts: 1967
Gender:For all these years it has been really hard to see the purpose of the 8th house.
I guess it is not only me who might recognize oneself in this article.
I especially embrace the conclusion on Oneness instead of Separateness at the end!
Enjoy!

I have an 8th house stellium and well aspected elsewhere with a 6th house stellium.
FOr me I have received inheritance with Jupiter there, well aspected. I also am into metaphysics, the otherrealms, reincarnation.
and other life after death issues......I have come to realise that we never die and live forever in various forms.
This has been majorly transformative. I am not afraid to pass over and look forward to it. I have dealt withinsurance matters, taxation, estate matters,
investments, which all belong to the 8th and in my work. Also secret investigations and criminal matters with
the Libra sign of legalities....... My 8th house is ruled by Libra with Venus in Libra there......I have spend lot ofmoney on reading up on these subjects and enjoy it all immensely.
it well I think. I could go on but wont bore you....

It is rather a heavy house but I deal with

Venus conjunct Mars and Neptune also........DEImg

Back to top

IP LoggedMs. Miranda
Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #236 - on: 06.01.2011 at 02:09 [UT] »chatcat, I have FmA H8 and I inherited once in my life (so far) and it was when J was squaring them, andthere was a cluster of p 's to it as well, including BDFGO. It was unexpected, not a lot of money, but with it
I was able to buy a used car while in college. And I was just wondering if you can share what transits weregoing on for you when you inherited.
In general I seem to get heirlooms from strangers. For instance I have encountered many time when at a
garage sale that someone has given me thins for free, especially if I expressed a great appreciation for it.

Posts: 3684
Gender:Back to top
IP Loggeda chair

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #237 - on: 06.01.2011 at 03:58 [UT] »Amused, I didn't think about your post much the first time I read it. I wish there was a zombie looking, braindead smiley.
Good thoughts. We're on the same wavelength right now. My moon at 27c is almost d and I know what you
were talking about at the end there. I think most adolescents are over-sensitive though. It's amazing how,when I hated a problem, I made assumptions about how bad it was. When I finally wanted to transcend it andbegan beckoning it, I realized that it wasn't really at all big enough to give me a good challenge. It was a
happy ending... I guess...
Moira, if you think Capricorn has something to do with it, check the position of the moon when such things
come up. See if it's in Capricorn. The moon moves too fast for many to concern it's transits but that doesn'tmean it's not powerful. I have been using the moon as a great tool for astrological discovery. I think I mightof even gotten some insights into i several nights ago, just after the moon entered the sign.
Vertex, one time I got away from my usual humility and argued with you because it seemed like the rightthing to do. My humility was partly for appearance and I didn't completely understand the true, universal valueof humility yet. When I argued with you, I was really in a fight-for-the-team mindset, which gave me the needto "win."Why must you insist that Zappo is evil though?
Back to top

IP Logged

Noyab Nunca
Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #238 - on: 06.01.2011 at 05:14 [UT] »Quote from ~ Angel Feather ~ on 19.12.2010 at 16:01 [UT]:
Very interesting.
I haveG and A at 25 and 26 degrees in b in my 8th and I must say that I do have an intense fear/phobia of death. I put it down toalmost dying three times. Once when I was born (cord around my neck) and the other twice of choking (on food).
The other thing she mentions is people with signs in the 8th experience death of someone close to them at young age. This is definitelybang on again for me. My brother, mother, grandparents and also friends.
I would also say that I am a very compassionate person and tend to put others before myself. In the past I have also suffered withdepression, so that article is definitely spot on for me.

Angel Feather I too have had issues of choking. Dreams of choking and fears of choking. D in 8th.
When I was 5, visiting my Aunt who owned a candy store in St. Louis, I took a huge chunk bite of hand-pulled
taffy, still warm, and found myself unable to breathe. I'll never forget the look in my brothers eyes. He was 12.
He was disgusted and in action at the same time. No fear in his eyes, though. He stuck his whole hand into mymouth (or so it seemed) and yanked a wad out, slimy and wadded up.
For months after, he called me a pig. I was 5, and probably weighed 45 pounds, lean as a pole.
What did I know? I believed him. It was a horrific experience.
The old saying "I hope he/she chokes on it" comes from somewhere, right? Reminds me of the 2nd/8th
polarity, for me, G strong, aids in the notion that too much of something is a bad thing. But my D seeks it
out if I don't limit myself. I WANT IT ALL.
My brother is B b, D h - he understood the dicotomy.
Nowdays, I cut my bits into bits, always fearful of choking on my desires. Literally and metaphoric.

Back to top
IP Logged
vertexMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #239 - on: 06.01.2011 at 05:29 [UT] »Quote from a chair on 06.01.2011 at 03:58 [UT]:
Vertex, one time I got away from my usual humility and argued with you because it seemed like the right thing to do. My humility waspartly for appearance and I didn't completely understand the true, universal value of humility yet. When I argued with you, I was really ina fight-for-the-team mindset, which gave me the need to "win."

Posts: 5575
Gender:Why must you insist that Zappo is evil though?

What...the?!? I was being sarcastic with that line!! And "insist"? when did I ever call Zappo evil before that?

I edited it...and added an extra

and put evil in quotes for clarification... now, think about what I meant.

Perhaps if you can, reflect on own contribution, the contribution of the "peacekeeper" and the direction of thethread since Zappo left this thread.

Anyway, Back to the 8th house....... well, at least those who were genuinely interested in having a discussion
about it.

Back to top

IP Logged

MOIRASQUAREDEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #240 - on: 06.01.2011 at 06:31 [UT] »Cher a'Chair,Good advice about following the moon's cycles, which I do on a daily basis. With a water-sign Sun, I
discovered by following the moon through the course of the month, then months in a row, that there is adefinite shift of energy based on its progression through the signs every couple of days. I tend to look ahead
early for the beginning of a two-day trend, especially regarding the forum, where many members are located intime zones a half day ahead. Lunar transits with Mercury have to be taken into consideration when observing a
species like the forum, but it's not difficult to guess what sort of issues and with what sort of tone they'll
manifest once you watch for a while.
There's been a noticeable (to me anyway) shift from the rapid one-liner responses to more technicalpresentation styles in the forum. Sort of a shift from "words without walls" to "walls of words". That might
only make sense to me. I certainly notice it in my own thinking and writing style lately. As a writer, I'm awareof these sorts of shifts. Poems don't leak through the fingertips, but analytical material does. Capricornian
shift.
Back to top
IP Logged
Noyab Nunca

Ex Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #241 - on: 06.01.2011 at 17:23 [UT] »To add as a side note, an astrologer friend of mine once referred to the 8th house as "the house of bottomlessneeds."

Back to top

IP Logged

MOIRASQUAREDEx Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #242 - on: 06.01.2011 at 17:59 [UT] »I'd agree with that. A Scorpio friend was laughing at me expressing from my 8th house of desires, andremarked:"You Want, You Want, You Want !!!"
It's certainly a method of counter-acting placidity and inertia in one's life !
Come to think of it, I'm not sure there is a single placement in my natal that describes "placid", with seemingly
everything contributing to the need to get to new levels.
Sun 8th.
Back to top
IP Logged
vertexMember

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #243 - on: 07.01.2011 at 19:24 [UT] »Quote from Noyab Nunca on 06.01.2011 at 17:23 [UT]:
To add as a side note, an astrologer friend of mine once referred to the 8th house as "the house of bottomless needs."

Posts: 5575
Gender:"Bottomless needs".... I would think bottomless Needs or being Needy in that way sounds like they would be
keywords for B/d in relation to the 8th. B=needs; d associated with being needy, a shadow characteristic ofd, and 8th house adds bottomless depths dimension of this.
This is incredibly true of one my cousins....and how so

She has B in 8th....

(also true of another cousin with that placement just to a lesser extent)
I wouldn't say this is necessarily true of everyone with these placements. However, analyzing how those 8thhouse placements are aspected would give clues how it really is being expressed.
Back to top

IP Logged

StargazerLily
New Member

Re: for those of us that have planets in the 8th h« Reply #244 - on: 18.02.2020 at 18:17 [UT] »Quote from Stormlaughter on 22.12.2010 at 04:46 [UT]:
I'm a Sag Sun in 8th, Scorpio Moon, Taurus Asc with Venus conj MC in 10th.
I just met a Sun/Pluto conj man.

Posts: 3

I don't believe I'll ever be the same again.

I have those placements also.
If you're still on, I'm curious to compare career experiences. I also have Pallas and Damocles conjunct Venus
and MC in k, J mK, and O in 4th. Do you find yourself in precarious situations frequently?
Back to top
IP Logged

Pages: 1

Astrodienst Forum › English Language Area › Discussion: Psychological and General« Previous topic | Next topic

Astrology»=> Discussion: Psychological and General Astrology

Go