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Astrology in literature (Read 755 times)

meiga
MemberAstrology in literature« on: 13.06.2007 at 22:55 [UT+1] »I´m new on the forum so I don´t know if this topic has been posted before..., but as I was reading this Sue
Grafton´s thriller I thought her heroine, detective Kinsey Malone, must be an aquarius moon with maybe...anescorpio ascendant.Let´s take for example Jane Austen´s heroines, don´t they feel like a lot of virgo? I don´tknow, but I think it could be fun to guess the astrology of literary characters. What do you think about
Shakespeare´s wicked Iago, taurean Othello, Ishmael from Moby Dick...any more guesses?

Posts: 117

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Amit Adler

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #1 - on: 14.06.2007 at 00:13 [UT+1] »Hi
Being a writer, playright and astrologer i am well aware to the use of astrology in order to define and createcharecters.
Shakspeare mentioned astrology alot - the music of the sphers in The merchant of Venice "Beware the aides ofmars and so on"

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AstroSun*
Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #2 - on: 14.06.2007 at 06:22 [UT+1] »The Fated Sky: Astrology in History by Benson BobrickPosts: 403

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meiga

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #3 - on: 15.06.2007 at 17:04 [UT+1] »http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2242/is_n1569_v269/ai_18920172 here´s quite a long andinteresting article by Annabella kitson on the presence of astrology in Chaucer, Shakespeare,Webster,SamuelBeckett and Anthony Powell

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Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #4 - on: 15.06.2007 at 20:24 [UT+1] »Funny, I thought about this today. I bought two Kate Bush LP's in a fleamarket in Berlin, and as I was listening
to Wuthering Heights I remembered how I once read the book and wrote an essay about it while studying
literature in Uni....the whole book has a Scorpio feeling in it! Has any of you read it? Full of passion andobsession.
I remember when I read it (I was 21) I felt like the book was written by a man, not a woman
Posts: 490
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Jupiter's Daughter

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #5 - on: 16.06.2007 at 01:18 [UT+1] »In the Movies thread we dissected the main characters of the Harry Potter Series - and also Lord of the Rings
I enjoy doing this if anyone wants to play!
Posts: 1767

BTW, Margaret Mitchell wrote Gone wit the Wind acocrding to Sun signs. Miss Scarlett, of course, was anAries.....
I've enver read Jane Austen, but form the Movies, I'd say that Virgo abounds....
I've never read Vanity Fair, but saw the movie wiht Reese Witherspoon - and her character (whose name I
forget) is worthy of dissection - I'll toss out a Leo Capricorn mix - all that charisma, pride and ambition....aswell as always being the center of attention
But as far as what I read goes, we'd have to be talking books by Nora Roberts, Laura Kinsale, Laurel Hamilton,
Patricia Cornwall, John Sanford & Elizabeth George and Nevada Barr.

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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #6 - on: 16.06.2007 at 01:38 [UT+1] »Samson (Leo) and Delilah (Aqua)

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SensoarMember

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #7 - on: 16.06.2007 at 01:51 [UT+1] »Hello,
I always thought of Scarlet O'Hara as a Scorpio. Maybe I was just reading Vivian Leigh? Those fierce eyebrowsjust scream Scorpio to me! LOL
Posts: 138

Peace,
Sensoar

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Jupiter's
Daughter

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #8 - on: 16.06.2007 at 02:10 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from Sensoar on 16.06.2007 at 01:51 [UT+1]:
Hello,
I always thought of Scarlet O'Hara as a Scorpio. Maybe I was just reading Vivian Leigh? Those fierce eyebrows just scream Scorpio to me!
LOL
Peace,

Posts: 1767
SensoarIt's her selfishness and always charging in - her unfeminine boldness - while her amazing courage in adversity I cant remember who was supposed to be scorpio - Rhett is Leo, Bonnie is Sag, Her dad was Taurus and little
miss "I don't know nuttin 'bout birthin' no babies'! is geminii. Ashlely of course is Pisces. I think Melanie isvirgo... Hmmm maybe mammie was Scorpio....
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Jupiter's Daughter

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #9 - on: 16.06.2007 at 02:10 [UT+1] »Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 01:38 [UT+1]:
Samson (Leo) and Delilah (Aqua)

Posts: 1767okay, tell us why....
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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #10 - on: 16.06.2007 at 02:58 [UT+1] »Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 16.06.2007 at 02:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 01:38 [UT+1]:
Samson (Leo) and Delilah (Aqua)okay, tell us why....

I read it somewhere...
Doesn't Samson look like a leo.
Delialah like an Aqua.
Let me read the story again, then I'll tell you exactly.
Otherwise, Ill look for the article that I read that.
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nonameslob

Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #11 - on: 16.06.2007 at 03:08 [UT+1] »Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 02:58 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 16.06.2007 at 02:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 01:38 [UT+1]:
Samson (Leo) and Delilah (Aqua)okay, tell us why....

I read it somewhere...
Doesn't Samson look like a leo.
Delialah like an Aqua.
Let me read the story again, then I'll tell you exactly.
Otherwise, Ill look for the article that I read that.

You are assigning signs to characters in a story you can't remember?? A pretty 'cut' and dry story at that.

Ohhh, I see. You read that someone ELSE thought that. You weren't ACTUALLY thinking for yourself. Why
didn't you say that in the first place?
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LeoDramaQueen
Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #12 - on: 16.06.2007 at 12:44 [UT+1] »Quote from Sensoar on 16.06.2007 at 01:51 [UT+1]:
Hello,
I always thought of Scarlet O'Hara as a Scorpio. Maybe I was just reading Vivian Leigh? Those fierce eyebrows just scream Scorpio to me!
LOL
Peace,
SensoarReally? I have those exact same eyebrows and don't see it as a Scorpio quality. I see her more as a fire sign.
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sunvalkyrie

Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #13 - on: 16.06.2007 at 13:11 [UT+1] »Quote from Mar Wagenaar on 13.06.2007 at 22:55 [UT+1]:
I´m new on the forum so I don´t know if this topic has been posted before..., but as I was reading this Sue Grafton´s thriller I thought
her heroine, detective Kinsey Malone, must be an aquarius moon with maybe...an escorpio ascendant. Let´s take for example

Jane Austen´s heroines, don´t they feel like a lot of virgo? I don´t know, but I think it could be fun to guess theastrology of literary characters. What do you think about Shakespeare´s wicked Iago, taurean Othello, Ishmael from Moby Dick...any
more guesses?

I love this...i hope we get through all of them, and this thread just keeps growing..
i'll just comment on jane Austens heroines and their virgo-ness. i see them as embodying a conflict between
virgo and sagitarius. They live in times where they are expexted to be virgo-like girlies (primp and proper, spic
and span, get married, run house, conform, be modest and retiring, be in the background, etc) but in reality
they are much more of sagitarius; bold, impulsive individuals full of life and vitality who again and again getscarried away by their own high jovial spirits and says the 'wrong' thing, a constant source of social uproar, they
don't suck up, are not afraid to 'compete' with the guys in knowledge and clever observations, etc. In short;they don't fit comfortably into the virgo-mold they are supposed to.
Jane Austen herself was a sag (i'm pretty sure - please correct me if i'm wrong in this) and i think there was a
lot of her own personality and life that she transferred to her heroines. She herself didn't go down the beaten
path expected from a woman of her class. She never married, or conformed. Instead she made her own path inlife, became a real kick-ass writer (she was talented AND lucky too) who wrote with vitality, timeless wit and a
sharp eye for social issues/injustice. She was a perfect feminist without ever using the word, or going on any
barricades. She just lived her life according to her own integrity. And she created HEROINES, not shy mousy
maids or 'damsels in distress'. Again, very sagitarian.
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cloudyvirgo
Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #14 - on: 16.06.2007 at 13:19 [UT+1] »Quote from LeoDramaQueen on 16.06.2007 at 12:44 [UT+1]:
Quote from Sensoar on 16.06.2007 at 01:51 [UT+1]:
Hello,
I always thought of Scarlet O'Hara as a Scorpio. Maybe I was just reading Vivian Leigh? Those fierce eyebrows just scream
Scorpio to me! LOL
Peace,
SensoarReally? I have those exact same eyebrows and don't see it as a Scorpio quality. I see her more as a fire sign.

LDQ,
You are correct. Margaret Mitchell was an astrologer and said Scarlet was an Aries.
I want those eyebrows.
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DesireeEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #15 - on: 16.06.2007 at 13:34 [UT+1] »Remember the scene on the mountain: ......."I never As God is my witness, as God is my witness they're notgoing to lick me. I'm going to live through this and when it's all over, I'll never be hungry again. No, nor any of
my folk. If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill. As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again.".......
So Aries!!!
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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #16 - on: 16.06.2007 at 13:35 [UT+1] »Quote from nonameslob on 16.06.2007 at 03:08 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 02:58 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 16.06.2007 at 02:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 01:38 [UT+1]:
Samson (Leo) and Delilah (Aqua)okay, tell us why....

I read it somewhere...
Doesn't Samson look like a leo.
Delialah like an Aqua.
Let me read the story again, then I'll tell you exactly.
Otherwise, Ill look for the article that I read that.

You are assigning signs to characters in a story you can't remember?? A pretty 'cut' and dry story at that.
Ohhh, I see. You read that someone ELSE thought that. You weren't ACTUALLY thinking for yourself. Why didn't you say that in the firstplace?

Who are you??? Alternative screen name. Why are you being contentious toward me.
I'm sorry I don't remember the exact details of the myth.
It was an interesting article. No it is not word of mouth-like some people's opinions. See
when you read a lot, it's hard to remember small details of fables, myths.,,,it's usless info.
I just remember that Samson represented the Sun, Delilah represents the Saturn/(Uranus)
It is precisely that I am able to think for myself, that such a comment would be made of such petty thing.
« Last Edit: 17.06.2007 at 04:55 [UT+1] by u116453372 »Back to top

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LeoDramaQueen

Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #17 - on: 16.06.2007 at 14:34 [UT+1] »Quote from cloudyvirgo on 16.06.2007 at 13:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from LeoDramaQueen on 16.06.2007 at 12:44 [UT+1]:
Quote from Sensoar on 16.06.2007 at 01:51 [UT+1]:
Hello,
I always thought of Scarlet O'Hara as a Scorpio. Maybe I was just reading Vivian Leigh? Those fierce
eyebrows just scream Scorpio to me! LOL
Peace,
SensoarReally? I have those exact same eyebrows and don't see it as a Scorpio quality. I see her more as a fire sign.

LDQ,
You are correct. Margaret Mitchell was an astrologer and said Scarlet was an Aries.
I want those eyebrows.

Aha! Aries makes perfect sense!
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SensoarMember

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #18 - on: 17.06.2007 at 00:51 [UT+1] »Hi,It turns out that Vivian Leigh was a Scorpio. Born November 5, 1913. No matter the intentions of Margaret
Mitchell, when Scarlet dons the red dress the character as portrayed by Vivian Leigh reeks of Scorpio's
Posts: 138

sultriness and sexuality. Her desire to have something she can't have, and her temperament all speak to me of
Scorpio.
Peace,
Sensoar

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restlesslibra

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #19 - on: 17.06.2007 at 01:03 [UT+1] »Quote from Liisa on 15.06.2007 at 20:24 [UT+1]:
Funny, I thought about this today. I bought two Kate Bush LP's in a fleamarket in Berlin, and as I was listening to Wuthering Heights I
remembered how I once read the book and wrote an essay about it while studying literature in Uni....the whole book has a Scorpio feelingin it! Has any of you read it? Full of passion and obsession.
I remember when I read it (I was 21) I felt like the book was written by a man, not a woman

Posts: 183

Liisa, how I wish I were in Berlin today!! (Berlin is my birth town) I adore Kate Bush, although I preferred herlater music to her earlier stuff (with the exception of Man with the Child in His Eyes), and Wuthering Heights
was out of this world unique at the time of release.
I have read and heavily studied Wuthering Heights, a canonized novel that I <gulp> loathe. I absolutely agree
that it feels male and Scorpionic in a multitude of ways. Heathcliffe could well have been a Scorpio, perhaps
with a Taurus rising or moon to further solidify his dictatorial and possessive characteristics (no offense meant
to Taurus folk, who are my Venus brethren, just accessing the detrimental characteristics here).
Literature and astrology is always fun to try to unravel. So many characters, such as Scarlett O'Hara (who I
tend to see Aries as the emergent sun sign), seem to have complex personalities that might defy mere sun-signinterpretations. I could surely buy an Aries sun/Scorpio rising (or Scorpio Venus/moon) for Scarlett. She
seemed too pro-active on some counts, however, and too impulsive to have been a Scorpio sun.
I recall one of the major astrological primers of the 1970s (can't recall the title) equated every sun sign with aliterary character. I recall only a few of them.
Libra: unfortunately, and to the umpteenth degree, Madam Bovary
Pisces: Alice in Wonderland
Scorpio: James Bond
Taurus: Falstaff from the Shakespeare plays
Edit: I just remembered another one,
Saggitarius: Professor Higgins in Pygmalion aka My Fair Lady

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Jupiter's
Daughter

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #20 - on: 17.06.2007 at 02:44 [UT+1] »Member

I think it's a bit too easy to characterize anyone who is a bad guy or involved in mysterious stuff as Scorpio.
When I look at James Bond, I see both utter pragmatism and that "bad boy" flirtiness - (whichDaniel Craig
SOOO doesn't have!!!) and I think Cappy/Gemini

Posts: 1767

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meiga

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #21 - on: 17.06.2007 at 04:12 [UT+1] »Quote:
i see them as embodying a conflict between virgo and sagitarius. They live in times where they are expexted to be virgo-like girlies(primp and proper, spic and span, get married, run house, conform, be modest and retiring, be in the background, etc) but in reality they
are much more of sagitarius; bold, impulsive individuals full of life and vitality who again and again gets carried away by their own highjovial spirits and says the 'wrong' thing, a constant source of social uproar, they don't suck up, are not afraid to 'compete' with the guys inknowledge and clever observations, etc. In short; they don't fit comfortably into the virgo-mold they are supposed to.
Jane Austen herself was a sagyesss she was! You really hit it! I agree 100% with your analysis
Heathcliff comes to me as rather capricorn or even a sinister virgo shade...And Cathy...could be even an arian(of course with pluto doing all kinds of things to them)
Posts: 117

What about the villain Iago in Othello? Gemini? (Again tryng to avoid giving scorpio to all the baddies!!)

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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #22 - on: 17.06.2007 at 04:26 [UT+1] »Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 17.06.2007 at 02:44 [UT+1]:
I think it's a bit too easy to characterize anyone who is a bad guy or involved in mysterious stuff as Scorpio. When I look at James Bond,
I see both utter pragmatism and that "bad boy" flirtiness - (whichDaniel Craig SOOO doesn't have!!!) and I think Cappy/Gemini

Heathcliff wasn't the villian. He was the anti-hero. He was brooding, intense, passionate,...and vengeful. His
wrath was motivated by being scorned. Isn't that sooo scorpion?
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VirgoMoon

Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #23 - on: 17.06.2007 at 04:31 [UT+1] »http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/FIRST-WE-TAKE-MANHATTAN-lyrics-Leonard-Co
hen/926CCB64249F308848256AF00028CB85
I don't know if this is relevant here, but I did wonder if Leonard was referring to astrology when he wrote"I'm guided by a signal in the heavens
I'm guided by this birthmark on my skinI'm guided by the beauty of our weapons".
Also there is a bit in the novel "Sylvie" by Gerard de Nerval, where he looks up at the stars and all he can see isthe spaces between them. If anyone can quote that bit in English, I would be grateful, as it was translated forme once and I don't read French. It struck me as a very good observation of de Nerval's, no doubt because of
his fragile mind, but I remember when nothing felt real, lying in a field at night and looking up at the stars, andto me they felt the most real thing, something to hold on to when everything else was unreal.
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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #24 - on: 17.06.2007 at 04:56 [UT+1] »Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 13:35 [UT+1]:
Quote from nonameslob on 16.06.2007 at 03:08 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 02:58 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 16.06.2007 at 02:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 16.06.2007 at 01:38 [UT+1]:
Samson (Leo) and Delilah (Aqua)okay, tell us why....

I read it somewhere...
Doesn't Samson look like a leo.
Delialah like an Aqua.
Let me read the story again, then I'll tell you exactly.
Otherwise, Ill look for the article that I read that.

You are assigning signs to characters in a story you can't remember?? A pretty 'cut' and dry story at that.
Ohhh, I see. You read that someone ELSE thought that. You weren't ACTUALLY thinking for yourself. Why didn't you saythat in the first place?

Who are you??? Alternative screen name. Why are you being contentious toward me.
I'm sorry I don't remember the exact details of the myth.
It was an interesting article. No it is not word of mouth-like some people's opinions. See
when you read a lot, it's hard to remember small details of fables, myths.,,,it's usless info.
I just remember that Samson represented the Sun, Delilah represents the Saturn/(Uranus)
It is precisely that I am able to think for myself, that such a comment would be made of such petty thing.

The root meaning of Samson is 'belonging to the Sun', that is Leo. The root meaning of Delilah is 'she of
Aquarius', thus marking Judges chapters 13-16 as a study in astrological opposites.
Let's do something extra special for the Zodiac Sign of Leo ruled by the Sun. Rather than doing the normalthing, looking to Greek mythology, I thought I'd suggest your reading a special story that Rabbi (andastrologer) Joel Dobbins calls the story of the first "star-crossed" lovers in the Judaic/Christian scriptures. I
don't mind telling you that this was one of my very favorite bible stories while growing up. The story I want
you to read is a story of big action, big violence, big lust, big betrayal, big game playing, big bets, big egos, big
revenge, and (last, but not least) big hair. And no, believe it or not, it's not the story of my life…
According to Rabbi Dobbins, it's an "opposites attract" love story between a Leo man (ruled by the Sun) and an
Aquarius woman (ruled by Saturn and Uranus). Believe it or not, you're likely already more than a wee bit
familiar with this story contained in the Book of Judges. It's the story of Samson and Delilah. You know...
Samson is the guy who couldn't cut his hair, killed a lion, was betrayed by his woman Delilah, ended up blind,and (in the end) managed to single handily bring down a pagan temple.
So why, you might ask, does Rabbi Dobbins call Samson and Delilah "star-crossed" lovers? One of things thatRabbi Dobbins knows (that you likely don't know) is that the name Samson means, "belonging to the Sun."
Even more interesting (and more "telling") is that Delilah's name means, "she of Aquarius." Aquarius is the
Zodiac Sign opposite the Zodiac Sign of Leo ruled by the Sun. According to Rabbi Dobbins, the story of
Samson is divided into two parts, the prologue and the main tale concerning Delilah. The period of time thatpasses between the prologue and the story of Delilah is 20 years. The prologue, which is the longer part of thestory, establishes the character of Samson. The character revealed in the prologue is that which is, oh so,typical of a young studdly Leo male in his prime. The Delilah part of the story tells us of an older Leo past his
prime. (And do any of you old hippie types out there remember Sun Sign Leo David Crosby's "Leo anthem" ofthe late 1960s "I Almost Cut My Hair.") If you can't remember the details of the full story, then maybe it's time
to dig out that Bible you've got tucked away somewhere.
With the Sun in Leo, this fiery, bold, and energetic attitude may have been the way you perceived the image ofyour father (or another significant male figure) when you were young and still in the early stages of childhood.
Your birth Sun is the hero of your mythic journey through this lifetime. So Let Your Light Shine!
__________________
Of course it is cut and paste. I didn't come up with is idea. There are also other astrological references in the
Bible.
As a seasoned astrologer you should have know this. My novice self knew it as trivia. Siince I'm not a Christian,
I don't have my Biblical myths memorized, thus bringing forth info you should have known.
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sumaneEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #25 - on: 17.06.2007 at 05:41 [UT+1] »Quote:As a seasoned astrologer you should have know this. My novice self knew it as trivia. Siince I'm not a Christian, I don't have my Biblicalmyths memorized, thus bringing forth info you should have known.

Someone asked you about your post re the Samson/Delilah, Leo/Aqua concept. That's all.
Knowledge of Biblical myth (your word) is not required in order to study astrology. Whether you're Christian or
not is irrelevant.
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cloudyvirgo
Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #26 - on: 17.06.2007 at 07:04 [UT+1] »Quote from Sensoar on 17.06.2007 at 00:51 [UT+1]:
Hi,
It turns out that Vivian Leigh was a Scorpio. Born November 5, 1913. No matter the intentions of Margaret Mitchell, when Scarlet dons thered dress the character as portrayed by Vivian Leigh reeks of Scorpio's sultriness and sexuality. Her desire to have something she can't
have, and her temperament all speak to me of Scorpio.
Peace,
Sensoar

What does Vivian Leigh have to do with Astrology in Literature??
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LeoDramaQueen

Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #27 - on: 17.06.2007 at 13:10 [UT+1] »Quote from Sensoar on 17.06.2007 at 00:51 [UT+1]:
Hi,
It turns out that Vivian Leigh was a Scorpio. Born November 5, 1913. No matter the intentions of Margaret Mitchell, when Scarlet dons thered dress the character as portrayed by Vivian Leigh reeks of Scorpio's sultriness and sexuality. Her desire to have something she can't
have, and her temperament all speak to me of Scorpio.
Peace,
Sensoar

She wears the red dress as Scarlett, who Margaret Mitchell saw as an Aries. Red is the color of Mars/Aries. And
it's that fire sign's sexuality & sultriness that comes across -- the main Scorpionic quality of that character is
her manipulation of others.
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lilithEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #28 - on: 17.06.2007 at 14:37 [UT+1] »[quote author=Liisa link=1181771732/0#4 date=1181935449]Funny, I thought about this today. I bought two
Kate Bush LP's in a fleamarket in Berlin, and as I was listening to Wuthering Heights I remembered how I once
read the book and wrote an essay about it while studying literature in Uni....the whole book has a Scorpio
feeling in it! Has any of you read it? Full of passion and obsession.
quote]
it's a great novel, Heathcliff is one of my heroes

he's a pure Scorpio

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sunvalkyrie

Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #29 - on: 17.06.2007 at 18:57 [UT+1] »[quote author=lilith link=1181771732/20#29 date=1182087474]Quote from Liisa on 15.06.2007 at 20:24[UT+1]:
Funny, I thought about this today. I bought two Kate Bush LP's in a fleamarket in Berlin, and as I was listening to Wuthering Heights I
remembered how I once read the book and wrote an essay about it while studying literature in Uni....the whole book has a Scorpio feelingin it! Has any of you read it? Full of passion and obsession.
quote]
it's a great novel, Heathcliff is one of my heroes

he's a pure Scorpio

Oh, yes. I wouldn't personally run around on the beach screaming Heeeathclifff! at the top of my lungs, but I'dplay hide and seek in the sand dunes with that lad any time of the day or night!
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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #30 - on: 18.06.2007 at 03:39 [UT+1] »Quote from lilith on 17.06.2007 at 14:37 [UT+1]:
Quote from Liisa on 15.06.2007 at 20:24 [UT+1]:
Funny, I thought about this today. I bought two Kate Bush LP's in a fleamarket in Berlin, and as I was listening toWuthering Heights I remembered how I once read the book and wrote an essay about it while studying literature in
Uni....the whole book has a Scorpio feeling in it! Has any of you read it? Full of passion and obsession.
quote]
it's a great novel, Heathcliff is one of my heroes

he's a pure Scorpio

Hero?? He was pretty scary, but you feel sorry for him, because you can understand his hurt. That is why I say
anti-hero.
Heathcliff was totally Scorpio. Cathy? some other sign with a lots of Scorpian energy.
This novel, all though filled with rage and passion, should be a lesson on what NOT to do.
To me the novel illustrates how the negative expressions of Scorpio (spite, rash, cruelty, passion) can totally
destroy the chances of attaining the very thing you wanted and destroying yourself in the process.
Only after you own up to your own mistakes (what Cathy did) and learn how to forgive--not hold a grudge (asHeathcliff finally did)...did the positives of Scorpio come out--creative energy.

It was shown figuratively, by Cathy & Healthcliff joining as corpse dust (death) and Cathy II and the other guy
enjoying the love/happiness that Cathy and Heathcliff could have shared had it not been for the neg expressionof Scorpio (regeneration)
Oh by the way, owning up to your own mistakes and forgiveness--I would consider this part of death of egoconsciousness. That is needed for regeneration.
[An evolved version of Heathcliff would be a turn on--but I don't think that person exists.]
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meiga

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #31 - on: 18.06.2007 at 12:33 [UT+1] »Here´s a novel I highly recommend with lots of direct references to astrology in it.By the way, the heroine,Marie, declares herself explicitly as a double saggitarius (like me), very philosophical.
Quote:The Laws has all the makings of a cult book. It was Connie Palmen’s first novel, brought her huge commercial success, was selected as
European Novel of the Year in 1991 — and remains a demanding, baffling, open-ended philosophical reflection on the writing and readingof novels.

In terms of structure the book is one of those circular affairs which make you realize on the last page that what you’ve been reading is an

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account of how the book came to be written in the first place. The French novelist André Gide used the device in The Counterfeiters, as
does Hugo Claus in The Sorrow of Belgium. The difference with Connie Palmen is that she does it in an altogether more emphatic andsymbolic manner, so much so that it becomes hard for the reader to open any other book without being haunted by the penetrating
questions asked here about such things as the relation between writers and their characters, or the seemingly ordered world of the noveland our feeble attempts to make sense of the world around us.

The young woman who is at the centre of The Laws is Marie Deniet, a philosophy student with a part-time job in an antiquarian bookshop.
We don’t learn her name until halfway through the book. Marie meets a number of types who each try to make sense of the world and ofart in their own way and want Marie to share their outlook. They are all men, and they all give Marie a name of their own choosing. Mariegets to know some of them intimately, but in the end all these relations prove unsatisfying. The astrologer seeks to fathom the immanentlaws which link the cosmos with people’s individual fates. The astronomer looks for the changing laws of time and matter in the universe.
The epileptic arranges his life around his illness. The philosopher critically reviews the positions of other philosophers and writers; herecognizes the spark of creativity in Marie but is devoid of it himself. Another philosopher, a former priest, wants Marie to read Jacques
Derrida rather than Michel Foucault, but she soon tires of reducing everything to the status of a text. Marie’s relationship with the artist is
the most intense. It, too, ultimately fails due to his unwillingness to allow others to give a meaning to his work and thus his own person,
however distanced, in his art. Finally, as the last of ‘the Seven Sorrows of the Holy Virgin Marie,’ the writer pours out her story to a
psychiatrist. He never appears as a character but only as the ‘you’ to whom Marie speaks. When she also addresses him as someone ‘quite
similar to a professional reader’, we as readers know we are being drawn into the book itself, as participants in the search for meaning.

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Re: Astrology in literature

Jupiter's
Daughter« Reply #32 - on: 18.06.2007 at 15:17 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from vertex on 17.06.2007 at 04:26 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 17.06.2007 at 02:44 [UT+1]:
I think it's a bit too easy to characterize anyone who is a bad guy or involved in mysterious stuff as Scorpio. When I lookat James Bond, I see both utter pragmatism and that "bad boy" flirtiness - (whichDaniel Craig SOOO doesn't have!!!) andI think Cappy/Gemini

Posts: 1767

Heathcliff wasn't the villian. He was the anti-hero. He was brooding, intense, passionate,...and vengeful. His wrath was motivated bybeing scorned. Isn't that sooo scorpion?

I was talking about "bad guys" and myterious stuff. I wasn't talking about Wuthering Heights - I never read it
but understand it as a story of obsession, and involvement of scorpio/pluto is appropriate - though for serious
negative pride, you need to add leo into the mix.
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Jupiter's Daughter

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #33 - on: 18.06.2007 at 15:30 [UT+1] »Quote from LeoDramaQueen on 17.06.2007 at 13:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from Sensoar on 17.06.2007 at 00:51 [UT+1]:
Hi,
It turns out that Vivian Leigh was a Scorpio. Born November 5, 1913. No matter the intentions of Margaret Mitchell, whenPosts: 1767

Scarlet dons the red dress the character as portrayed by Vivian Leigh reeks of Scorpio's sultriness and sexuality. Her desire
to have something she can't have, and her temperament all speak to me of Scorpio.
Peace,
Sensoar

She wears the red dress as Scarlett, who Margaret Mitchell saw as an Aries. Red is the color of Mars/Aries. And it's that fire sign's
sexuality & sultriness that comes across -- the main Scorpionic quality of that character is her manipulation of others.

Admittetdly, I only saw the movie, didn't read the book - but I saw Scarlett as more dominant thanmanipulating. She seemed to me to jsut roll over everybody while going after what she wanted without regard
to what anyone else needed, felt or thought. Insight is needed in order to manipulate others, as well assneakiness. her lack of insight is a hallmark of her behavior - that it took her so long to realize that Ashley
really loved Melanie is a case in point. THat ti took her so long to appreciate Rhett and realize that she loved
him is another. One thing I did see in the film that demonstrated scorpio to me was her ability to pull herself
out of the bottle by sheer will power. You might cite her obsession iwth Ashley as Scorpionic, but isn't it also a
hallmark of Aries in Romance to want what they can't have, and to disregard that which is readily available?
and to get caught up in teh chase? CAn you image how Scarlett really would have felt if she actually GOT
Ashley? I suspect she would have got sick of him pretty quick.
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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #34 - on: 18.06.2007 at 18:23 [UT+1] »Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 18.06.2007 at 15:17 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 17.06.2007 at 04:26 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 17.06.2007 at 02:44 [UT+1]:
I think it's a bit too easy to characterize anyone who is a bad guy or involved in mysterious stuff as Scorpio.
When I look at James Bond, I see both utter pragmatism and that "bad boy" flirtiness - (whichDaniel Craig
SOOO doesn't have!!!) and I think Cappy/Gemini

Heathcliff wasn't the villian. He was the anti-hero. He was brooding, intense, passionate,...and vengeful. His wrath was
motivated by being scorned. Isn't that sooo scorpion?

I was talking about "bad guys" and myterious stuff. I wasn't talking about Wuthering Heights - I never read it but understand it as a storyof obsession, and involvement of scorpio/pluto is appropriate - though for serious negative pride, you need to add leo into the mix.

I could see Cathy as negative Leo with Plutonian, possible... but Leo's are not mentally cruel. Maybe Leo Asc?
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LeoDramaQueen

Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #35 - on: 18.06.2007 at 18:44 [UT+1] »Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 18.06.2007 at 15:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from LeoDramaQueen on 17.06.2007 at 13:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from Sensoar on 17.06.2007 at 00:51 [UT+1]:
Hi,
It turns out that Vivian Leigh was a Scorpio. Born November 5, 1913. No matter the intentions of Margaret
Mitchell, when Scarlet dons the red dress the character as portrayed by Vivian Leigh reeks of Scorpio's
sultriness and sexuality. Her desire to have something she can't have, and her temperament all speak to meof Scorpio.
Peace,
Sensoar

She wears the red dress as Scarlett, who Margaret Mitchell saw as an Aries. Red is the color of Mars/Aries. And it's thatfire sign's sexuality & sultriness that comes across -- the main Scorpionic quality of that character is her manipulation ofothers.

Admittetdly, I only saw the movie, didn't read the book - but I saw Scarlett as more dominant than manipulating. She seemed to me tojsut roll over everybody while going after what she wanted without regard to what anyone else needed, felt or thought. Insight is neededin order to manipulate others, as well as sneakiness. her lack of insight is a hallmark of her behavior - that it took her so long to realizethat Ashley really loved Melanie is a case in point. THat ti took her so long to appreciate Rhett and realize that she loved him is another.
One thing I did see in the film that demonstrated scorpio to me was her ability to pull herself out of the bottle by sheer will power. Youmight cite her obsession iwth Ashley as Scorpionic, but isn't it also a hallmark of Aries in Romance to want what they can't have, and todisregard that which is readily available? and to get caught up in teh chase? CAn you image how Scarlett really would have felt if she
actually GOT Ashley? I suspect she would have got sick of him pretty quick.

I'd say her denial is more Neptunian, or Neptune in the 7th House. I don't see her obsession as Scorpionic,
more Leo or Aries. She doesn't have a lack of insight, but her delusions and idealism weren't allowing her to"see" reality very clearly. And I think she correctly sensed that Rhett really was in love with her, on some level.
Yet she believed that she could overcome all obstacles, and win him over. I agree about her will power being
Scorpionic, but that's an Aries quality, as well.
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Re: Astrology in literature

Daughter« Reply #36 - on: 19.06.2007 at 01:15 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from vertex on 18.06.2007 at 18:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 18.06.2007 at 15:17 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 17.06.2007 at 04:26 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 17.06.2007 at 02:44 [UT+1]:
I think it's a bit too easy to characterize anyone who is a bad guy or involved in mysterious
stuff as Scorpio. When I look at James Bond, I see both utter pragmatism and that "bad boy"Posts: 1767

flirtiness - (whichDaniel Craig SOOO doesn't have!!!) and I think Cappy/Gemini

Heathcliff wasn't the villian. He was the anti-hero. He was brooding, intense, passionate,...and vengeful.
His wrath was motivated by being scorned. Isn't that sooo scorpion?

I was talking about "bad guys" and myterious stuff. I wasn't talking about Wuthering Heights - I never read it but
understand it as a story of obsession, and involvement of scorpio/pluto is appropriate - though for serious negative pride,
you need to add leo into the mix.

I could see Cathy as negative Leo with Plutonian, possible... but Leo's are not mentally cruel. Maybe Leo Asc?

You never met my mother.
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Jupiter's Daughter

Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #37 - on: 19.06.2007 at 01:23 [UT+1] »Quote from LeoDramaQueen on 18.06.2007 at 18:44 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 18.06.2007 at 15:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from LeoDramaQueen on 17.06.2007 at 13:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from Sensoar on 17.06.2007 at 00:51 [UT+1]:

Posts: 1767

Hi,
It turns out that Vivian Leigh was a Scorpio. Born November 5, 1913. No matter the intentionsof Margaret Mitchell, when Scarlet dons the red dress the character as portrayed by Vivian Leighreeks of Scorpio's sultriness and sexuality. Her desire to have something she can't have, andher temperament all speak to me of Scorpio.
Peace,
Sensoar

She wears the red dress as Scarlett, who Margaret Mitchell saw as an Aries. Red is the color of Mars/Aries.
And it's that fire sign's sexuality & sultriness that comes across -- the main Scorpionic quality of thatcharacter is her manipulation of others.

Admittetdly, I only saw the movie, didn't read the book - but I saw Scarlett as more dominant than manipulating. She
seemed to me to jsut roll over everybody while going after what she wanted without regard to what anyone else needed,
felt or thought. Insight is needed in order to manipulate others, as well as sneakiness. her lack of insight is a hallmark ofher behavior - that it took her so long to realize that Ashley really loved Melanie is a case in point. THat ti took her solong to appreciate Rhett and realize that she loved him is another. One thing I did see in the film that demonstrated
scorpio to me was her ability to pull herself out of the bottle by sheer will power. You might cite her obsession iwth Ashleyas Scorpionic, but isn't it also a hallmark of Aries in Romance to want what they can't have, and to disregard that which isreadily available? and to get caught up in teh chase? CAn you image how Scarlett really would have felt if she actually
GOT Ashley? I suspect she would have got sick of him pretty quick.

I'd say her denial is more Neptunian, or Neptune in the 7th House. I don't see her obsession as Scorpionic, more Leo or Aries. She doesn't
have a lack of insight, but her delusions and idealism weren't allowing her to "see" reality very clearly. And I think she correctly sensed
that Rhett really was in love with her, on some level. Yet she believed that she could overcome all obstacles, and win him over. I agree
about her will power being Scorpionic, but that's an Aries quality, as well.

IMO delusions and insight are mutually excusive. I think she lacked insight into herself as well as others, in her
pursuit of what she wanted, she was destroying her chances for happiness, and the happiness of those aroundher. to me that clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding. I agree her pursuit of Ashley was more Aries than
Scorp, and it wouldn't surpise me if neptune was involved wiht Venus or the 7th house - if shes knew rhett
loved her, she clearly did not understnad him very well if she thought she could use him for her own ends
(protection and security) and maintain control of the relationship. She didn't need to win him over - he was"won" the first day he laid eyes on her - until she stomped the daylights out of their relationship.
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Lindac7
Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #38 - on: 19.06.2007 at 04:36 [UT+1] »Jupiter's Daughter,
You crack me up!
I love your 'tell it like it is' style!
But then, what else would I expect from a Sagittarius?
My Venus is in Sagittarius.
Linda >'='<
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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #39 - on: 19.06.2007 at 04:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 19.06.2007 at 01:15 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 18.06.2007 at 18:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 18.06.2007 at 15:17 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 17.06.2007 at 04:26 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 17.06.2007 at 02:44 [UT+1]:
I think it's a bit too easy to characterize anyone who is a bad guy or involved inmysterious stuff as Scorpio. When I look at James Bond, I see both utter
pragmatism and that "bad boy" flirtiness - (whichDaniel Craig SOOO doesn't
have!!!) and I think Cappy/Gemini

Heathcliff wasn't the villian. He was the anti-hero. He was brooding, intense, passionate,...andvengeful. His wrath was motivated by being scorned. Isn't that sooo scorpion?

I was talking about "bad guys" and myterious stuff. I wasn't talking about Wuthering Heights - I never readit but understand it as a story of obsession, and involvement of scorpio/pluto is appropriate - though forserious negative pride, you need to add leo into the mix.

I could see Cathy as negative Leo with Plutonian, possible... but Leo's are not mentally cruel. Maybe Leo Asc?

You never met my mother.

LOL that is funny!!
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Jupiter's
Daughter

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #40 - on: 19.06.2007 at 05:52 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from vertex on 19.06.2007 at 04:40 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 19.06.2007 at 01:15 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 18.06.2007 at 18:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 18.06.2007 at 15:17 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 17.06.2007 at 04:26 [UT+1]:

Posts: 1767

Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 17.06.2007 at 02:44 [UT+1]:
I think it's a bit too easy to characterize anyone who is a bad guy or
involved in mysterious stuff as Scorpio. When I look at James Bond, I
see both utter pragmatism and that "bad boy" flirtiness - (whichDaniel
Craig SOOO doesn't have!!!) and I think Cappy/Gemini

Heathcliff wasn't the villian. He was the anti-hero. He was brooding, intense,
passionate,...and vengeful. His wrath was motivated by being scorned. Isn't thatsooo scorpion?

I was talking about "bad guys" and myterious stuff. I wasn't talking about Wuthering Heights I never read it but understand it as a story of obsession, and involvement of scorpio/pluto isappropriate - though for serious negative pride, you need to add leo into the mix.

I could see Cathy as negative Leo with Plutonian, possible... but Leo's are not mentally cruel. Maybe Leo
Asc?

You never met my mother.

LOL that is funny!!

YOU may think so......
seriously - Doris Hebel (who had a national reputation many years ago but is pretty under the radar these days)- says tht the leo scorpio combination is the abosolute worst for negative pride - which was her polite term forviciousness born out of a defense of ones self image - mom is leo with scorp rising and she has the same nasty
T-Square that Jim Jones (of the grape kool-aid cult massacre) has.
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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #41 - on: 19.06.2007 at 06:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 19.06.2007 at 05:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 19.06.2007 at 04:40 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 19.06.2007 at 01:15 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 18.06.2007 at 18:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 18.06.2007 at 15:17 [UT+1]:
Quote from vertex on 17.06.2007 at 04:26 [UT+1]:
Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 17.06.2007 at 02:44 [UT+1]:
I think it's a bit too easy to characterize anyone who is a badguy or involved in mysterious stuff as Scorpio. When I look atJames Bond, I see both utter pragmatism and that "bad boy"flirtiness - (whichDaniel Craig SOOO doesn't have!!!) and I
think Cappy/Gemini

Heathcliff wasn't the villian. He was the anti-hero. He was brooding,intense, passionate,...and vengeful. His wrath was motivated by being
scorned. Isn't that sooo scorpion?

I was talking about "bad guys" and myterious stuff. I wasn't talking about
Wuthering Heights - I never read it but understand it as a story of obsession, andinvolvement of scorpio/pluto is appropriate - though for serious negative pride, youneed to add leo into the mix.

I could see Cathy as negative Leo with Plutonian, possible... but Leo's are not mentally cruel.
Maybe Leo Asc?

You never met my mother.

LOL that is funny!!

YOU may think so......
seriously - Doris Hebel (who had a national reputation many years ago but is pretty under the radar these days) - says tht the leo scorpio
combination is the abosolute worst for negative pride - which was her polite term for viciousness born out of a defense of ones self image- mom is leo with scorp rising and she has the same nasty T-Square that Jim Jones (of the grape kool-aid cult massacre) has.

Eepps! I'm glad you made it out ok! Stay away from Guyana. Stick to soda, no flavored drinks.
I'm glad my Sag my Asc!! Phew! No planets in Scorpio either
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Jupiter's

Re: Astrology in literature

Daughter« Reply #42 - on: 19.06.2007 at 15:21 [UT+1] »Member

Scorpio is a fine sign. I have several scorpio placements (perhaps I needed them?) Just the combination withleo requires extra effort at evolution -Posts: 1767

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Nikki_Ex Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #43 - on: 19.06.2007 at 23:13 [UT+1] »I am currently reading Isabel Allende's memoir, Paula, which is part memoir of living through the military coupin Chile in 1971, and part recounting the story of watching her daughter Paula die, paralyzed and in a coma.
Anyone who reads Allende know that even though her life is extremely Plutonic and catastrophic in nature, she
is also very quirky and comical and is very skilled in commenting on the absurd moments of life...
She wrote that while she was living in Chile in the late 60's and early 70's, she worked for a magazine, writing ahumor column and women's pieces. The magazine she worked for also had an astrology section, but theastrologer did not live in the same city as the magazine and so had to mail the column in by post. One day, thecolumn did not arrive in time for publication, so Isabel telephoned the astrologer, who said something to theeffect of, "So?-- When the column finally does arrive in the mail, just use it in next month's magazine -- time
all works out to be the same in the end." After that, Isabel took to writing the columns herself whenever they
did not arrive in time, making everything up in her head. She knew nothing about astrology, but was a great
fiction writer, and she said no one noticed the difference...
Ouch!
I love Allende's work but that gives astrology such a bad name! lol. However, Allende comments
later on in the book that she sort of wished she had learned astrology when she was actually writing it in thosedays, because years later, she risked her marriage and family life in order to have an affair with a man who she
states "was a Gemini", -- a description, she says, should have clued her into the changeability of this man's
nature, and would have saved her a lot of time and grief in figuring him out, as well as their inevitable
incompatibility...
I was glad to see astrology vindicated in the end.

I have yet to do Allende's chart...

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vertexEx Member

Re: Astrology in literature« Reply #44 - on: 20.06.2007 at 00:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 19.06.2007 at 15:21 [UT+1]:
Scorpio is a fine sign. I have several scorpio placements (perhaps I needed them?) Just the combination with leo requires extra effort at
evolution -*Yikes*
I should consider myself lucky that my North Node (target pt. for soul purpose) is in Scorpio, which I imagine,
can only represent the positive qualities of the sign.
Every sign combination has varying degree of effort required for evolution depending on how the individual
chooses to express their planetary energies.
Back to Wuthering Heights....
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