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schizophrenia in a chart (Read 578 times)

Alchemic
Ex Memberschizophrenia in a chart« on: 31.08.2008 at 22:39 [UT+1] »hi,
are there any indicators of schizophrenia that can be found in a chart? any information would be helpful
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CelineMember

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #1 - on: 31.08.2008 at 22:53 [UT+1] »The quintessential planet of schizophrenia is Mercury and the sign Gemini. However, as with all other things,
much depends on aspects. I'd say an afflicted Neptune has a lot to do with schizo because it is associated withdelusions and a detachment from reality. So, the first things I'd look at in a chart are Neptune and Mercury.
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AchernarMember

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #2 - on: 31.08.2008 at 23:02 [UT+1] »Some years ago I analysed a few hundred charts of people with a label of schizophrenia and found no
significant patterns in the signs or aspects, (except those one would expect purely due to astronomical factors).
I was not able to investigate angularity as I did not have birth times.
There was one surprising finding, in that people with schizophrenia showed a strong tendency to be admitted tohospital a few weeks after their birthdays. The effect was so strong that they were twice as likely to be
admitted then, than they were six months later!

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Gender:Best wishes
Achernar

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VirgoMoon

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #3 - on: 31.08.2008 at 23:16 [UT+1] »Did you notice that schizophrenics' mother or father had their Sun hard aspecting the identified patient's Sun?
What you are describing seems to be some kind of eclipsing of the Sun (not in an astronomical sense), by thetransitting Sun.
I noticed that the father who imprisoned his daughter in his cellar for all those years, Joseph Fritzl, had a
psychopath's Sun which aspected his daughter's Sun, in fact their Suns were conjunct.
I remember reading something by R. D. Laing about schizophrenia, and he wrote about a young schizophrenic
girl who said that her mother murdered her when she was a small child. It is as though the Sun has beendamaged by the schizophrenogenic parent, and as Laing interpreted, the essence of the child's life had beenmurdered.
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Alchemic
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #4 - on: 31.08.2008 at 23:24 [UT+1] »celine.....
my friend has merc in the first (conjunct the asc)and he has neptune in the 4th (conjunct the IC)
mmmmmmmm....i guess they are just aspects really.....not sure anything can be read from them....
i am trying to find out when the problem first engulfed my friend, so i can look at his transits......
keep the info coming folks....perhaps we will find some things that stand out eventually

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VirgoMoon

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #5 - on: 31.08.2008 at 23:49 [UT+1] »Venus, the Sun's handmaid, can maybe sometimes show schizophrenia when afflicted? Obviously an afflictedSun. Somebody on this forum once mentioned Mars Uranus being linked to insanity. Maybe the afflicting
planet is Uranus? Saturn seems too deliberately evil, bad rather than mad.
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CelineMember

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #6 - on: 01.09.2008 at 00:30 [UT+1] »Quote from VirgoMoon on 31.08.2008 at 23:49 [UT+1]:
Venus, the Sun's handmaid, can maybe sometimes show schizophrenia when afflicted? Obviously an afflicted Sun. Somebody on thisforum once mentioned Mars Uranus being linked to insanity. Maybe the afflicting planet is Uranus? Saturn seems too deliberately evil, badrather than mad.

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Gender:I'd say Uranus is associated more with forms of autism and Asperger's because of the problems with emotional
attachment but often high level of mathematical ability.
Alchemic,
Is your friend's Mercury square Neptune? Also, the fact that these two are angular could well be an indication. I
suspect this would be especially so if the Sun or Moon were also involved in hard aspect to these two.

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Neji Hyuuga

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #7 - on: 01.09.2008 at 00:44 [UT+1] »I would think there would be something since someone on livejournal was able to point out things in my chartthat would indicate anxiety problems.

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Alchemic
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #8 - on: 01.09.2008 at 00:47 [UT+1] »no celine...he doesnt have merc sq nepthe does have IqB, IpA , IoD,

CoE.......not sure what to make of it all....
one thing i did notice is that the cusp of his 11th house is 0 degrees 2 cancer....and hes had problems relying
on his friends for help.....i wonder if the fact that the moon rules this house has made things unstable forhim....you know...going through phases....
im not very good at this........sorry
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chatcat

Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #9 - on: 01.09.2008 at 01:58 [UT+1] »Quote from Celine on 31.08.2008 at 22:53 [UT+1]:
The quintessential planet of schizophrenia is Mercury and the sign Gemini. However, as with all other things, much depends on aspects. I'dsay an afflicted Neptune has a lot to do with schizo because it is associated with delusions and a detachment from reality. So, the firstthings I'd look at in a chart are Neptune and Mercury.

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Gender:Absolutely spot on!!!!. I also think that Uranus connected to Mercury or strong Aquarius can be involved.
Mercury Neptune connections to any of the air signs perhaps??? I know several strong Geminian types whoare schizophrenic. THey say that drinking alcohol and smoking during pregnancy is a major cause. Many
Geminis smoke because of their nervous disposition and perhaps the mother has a strong Mercury Gemini
influence as well. It would be good to investigate that. A strong Neptunian influence would point to drugs andnicotine for instance.

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chatcatMember

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #10 - on: 01.09.2008 at 02:01 [UT+1] »Quote from Celine on 01.09.2008 at 00:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from VirgoMoon on 31.08.2008 at 23:49 [UT+1]:
Venus, the Sun's handmaid, can maybe sometimes show schizophrenia when afflicted? Obviously an afflicted Sun.
Somebody on this forum once mentioned Mars Uranus being linked to insanity. Maybe the afflicting planet is Uranus?
Saturn seems too deliberately evil, bad rather than mad.

Posts: 1967
Gender:I'd say Uranus is associated more with forms of autism and Asperger's because of the problems with emotional attachment but often highlevel of mathematical ability.
Alchemic,
Is your friend's Mercury square Neptune? Also, the fact that these two are angular could well be an indication. I suspect this would be
especially so if the Sun or Moon were also involved in hard aspect to these two.

I agree with all the above comments.

But really I think that Pluto is the deliberately evil influence, not somuch Saturn which is a major testing and karmic influence.

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chatcat

Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #11 - on: 01.09.2008 at 02:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Achernar on 31.08.2008 at 23:02 [UT+1]:
Some years ago I analysed a few hundred charts of people with a label of schizophrenia and found no significant patterns in the signs or
aspects, (except those one would expect purely due to astronomical factors). I was not able to investigate angularity as I did not havebirth times.

Posts: 1967
Gender:There was one surprising finding, in that people with schizophrenia showed a strong tendency to be admitted to hospital a few weeks after
their birthdays. The effect was so strong that they were twice as likely to be admitted then, than they were six months later!
Best wishes
Achernar

Without a birth time really analysis of a chart is rather futile in my opinion as the ascendant is crucial. I also
agree with the six weeks surrounding our birthdays can be very significant for good or bad, depending on thechart. Many people pass away during that period I have found.
Did you not see any connections with Mercury, Uranus and Neptune??? Gemini strong??? The aspects can vary
widely, the contact is the significant thing. Moon involved also means it is hereditary and more likely from themother's side of the family or due to her behaviour during pregnancy.
hereditary factors from the father's side of the family.

The SUn involved points more to the

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Alchemic
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #12 - on: 01.09.2008 at 02:05 [UT+1] »just some feedback......
i have merc sq uranus...merc in aqua...and i have never been schizophrenic....i do assossiate this aspect with aperson who gets flashes of thought, but i think it is quite useful.....(well it is for me....very erratic thoughts too,
but not of a mental illness kind...i do my best horaries when merc is transiting uranus or the other way around)i really want to hone in on the fact that schizophrenia in contrast to other mental disorders is the one where
the sufferer, hears voices.............that is the symptom that makes schizophrenia differnt to other mental
disorders......not sure if one can really identify this specific symptom in a natal chart.
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capricornianaries

Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #13 - on: 01.09.2008 at 02:47 [UT+1] »I also have CoO and am not Schizophrenic. But I do think that O is often involved in cases of mental illnessof all types, just from what I've heard around. I do have anxiety + depression issues. (O is probably more
involved with the anxiety.) My friend with bipolar has O exactly o her D. Another friend with recurring
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seasonal anxiety has Oo her Ascendant. Virginia Woolf had many planets in Aqaurius as well. I think it's
influence can be so incredibly and nervouus and stimulating that it can be hard to deal with.

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capricornianaries
Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #14 - on: 01.09.2008 at 02:48 [UT+1] »Oh also, if you want to find the aspect that signals hearing voices, maybe the moon is the best bet? As it deals
with the unconscious and emotional, and when episodes take over it is beyond the person's control. Just athought.

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capricorn rising

Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #15 - on: 01.09.2008 at 03:03 [UT+1] »i've always had a personal theory on schiszophrenia. repressed psychic energy! it would make sense if we
repressed our psychic energy out of fear and not understanding what it is. some people are intensly psychic,
but because of the fact that it is intense and is powerful a lot of people find it hard to release so it could spillover into delusions. i've had this problem myself and when i just face it, easier said than done, but when i do
i'm in control and can direct my psychic tendencies properly.

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hard aspects to neptune or uranus might point the way. or look to the water houses for clues..

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capricornianaries
Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #16 - on: 01.09.2008 at 03:24 [UT+1] »I think what you say about repressed psychic energy could make a lot of sense about other mental illnesses
too. Not all of them, of course, but some. When you deny your psychic energy then you have to try and live in"reality" meaning much of what you experience has no "value." It's too hard!

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VirgoMoon

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #17 - on: 01.09.2008 at 03:29 [UT+1] »I link the voice with Mars.
Mars Uranus aspects might sometimes indicate hearing voices? (by aspects, I mean conjunctions, squares andoppositions, not trines and sextiles).
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Alchemic
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #18 - on: 01.09.2008 at 03:59 [UT+1] »ok...well perhaps the stubborness is his taurus mars......????????????
looking at the mars aspects..... squares to the sun and merc??????
i would like this thread to become more general again or else its in the wrong spot
so we've looked at merc and neptune....mars aspects for the voices......weve kind of discounted saturn and iwould tend to agree...im not sure where to go with this now....
perhaps its time to see if anyone can add the charts of some schizophrenics......thanks for all your imput
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Davidgb

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #19 - on: 01.09.2008 at 08:10 [UT+1] »Quote from capricornianaries on 01.09.2008 at 02:48 [UT+1]:
Oh also, if you want to find the aspect that signals hearing voices, maybe the moon is the best bet? As it deals with the unconscious andemotional, and when episodes take over it is beyond the person's control. Just a thought.

An aspect of "Hearing voices". Might be hard to find. I suspect, going through this experience myself, is thatmost peoples probelm in going through such experiences is getting the validation they need. If a person ishearing voices , maybe they are coming from somewhere. It when you really believe the voices are comingfrom somewhere, you try to tell someone for validation and they tell you ..You're imagining it"... thats whatswell te psychiatrtic populations in this country if you ask me.
There another thread where they were trying to talk about this subject ..its called " The dark of the soul".
But let me say, I noticed some things about People in psychiatric conditions. Challenging aspects to Chiron,also ,Other people, or the persons environment. Supposing if the person was around persons or family
member who aren't conductive to the individuals mental health for some reason. So in a few charts you see astellium of planets ( sometimes to me indicating "many people") in adverse aspect to say Chiron and Neptune.
that could indicate a psychiatric condition.
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Tauries
Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #20 - on: 01.09.2008 at 14:04 [UT+1] »someone in my family has suffered from it with Mars and Pluto in Scorpio in 8th house

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Friesiangal

Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #21 - on: 01.09.2008 at 18:22 [UT+1] »Just 2 more cents of thought.
Agree with a strong Mercury-Neptune influence, but I noticed in several 'labelled schizophrenic' charts that
there were aspects which did not link up with another. So it looked as if a group of aspects went in several
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Gender:independent directions of each other without there being a common link via a planet that integrated themaltogether.
What I would also consider significant is the lack of a 'grounding' aspect to Saturn, which is the planet that
deals with manifested realism. In general, a person might not like to deal with its function but if there's asignificant aspect, at least one is somehow aware of its influence. If there's no aspect through which Saturn canreach the outer planets, especially Neptune, I get this image of a kite on a string just fluttering aimlessly andwilly-nilly in the sky (e.g. uncontrolled thoughts, acts, emotions, etc.). If someone is holding the string(Saturn), the kite is guided in the wind; .....if you get my picture.
Friesiangal

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NeptuneMoon
Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #22 - on: 01.09.2008 at 19:33 [UT+1] »my father's paranoid schizophrenic and he has C DGI in c.. i don't know the exact birth time.. but mymom told me what she thought it was, and by using that time it puts his moon in gemini too. has has OpI,

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CoI
and BoI if i were to use that timei also have CBI and i have been conscious about maintaining my mental health for obvious reason.. i also
suffered from depression when i was younger, and can't really handle any psychoactive substances because i getreally caught up in my head, and have question my sanity many times before. an astrologer told me that she
has seen mental illness played out clearly in charts, and told me that the way those planets were aspected, thati shouldn't be concerned about it...

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Leon Parker

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #23 - on: 01.09.2008 at 20:53 [UT+1] »difficult luminaries especially aspected by Saturn and Neptune, plus some dose of chiron.

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CallyKaurEx Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #24 - on: 01.09.2008 at 23:21 [UT+1] »I have CoI and an almost unaspected G except that its opposes the AC. I've had some trouble withdepression and difficulty coping - I've been on medication for the past 15 years, but I've never heard voices oranything like that - and have never lost touch with reality.
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VirgoMoon

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #25 - on: 01.09.2008 at 23:41 [UT+1] »Not convinced Mercury is the culprit. Mercury aspecting nasty tangles of aspects seems to be able to digest
their nastiness, which would cripple a planet like Venus, Mars or the Sun. Some of the most intelligent people
have these difficult aspect tangles, and Mercury is part of them, the intellect being able to survive when nothingelse does. There is something deeply ambiguous about Mercury regarding the tree of good and evil and thetwo serpents entwined thereon. Mercury was regarded as the symbol of the healer, and has a lot of similarities
to Chiron.
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Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #26 - on: 02.09.2008 at 00:57 [UT+1] »well, i haven't looked at any other charts but my father's, and he's got the neptune/mercury thing, plus abunch of planets in gemini. i looked at his chart after reading this thread... and it linked up with what people
were saying. so, i don't know, but his chart played it out that way.. i think a lot of it has to do with toxic

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environmental exposure (that's another subject), or how people choose to deal with their stresses. our chartsaren't written in stone. they give us a choice.. many choices actually.. on how we can play them out.. and eventhough someone might have these aspects, they have a choice on how they want to handle it. i could've
continued to take psychoactive substances and possibly lose my mind... but i chose not to. was it because of
the way my planets are aspected that gave me the awareness to make this choice? i don't know...

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Josie

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #27 - on: 04.09.2008 at 06:25 [UT+1] »Quote from VirgoMoon on 01.09.2008 at 03:29 [UT+1]:
I link the voice with Mars.
Mars Uranus aspects might sometimes indicate hearing voices? (by aspects, I mean conjunctions, squares and oppositions, not trines andsextiles).

I have OH12oE and A in H3. Once I was in the highway with my motorbike and I heard a voice coming frommy solar plexus that said: "Be carefull¡ cars go very fast" so I put myself right in the middle of the furrow, but
after a 200m. a car attacked me and escape. Fortunately the next car stopped and brought me to hospital. I
broke a bone on my shoulder.

I also have OqBcin H10

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NeptuneMoon
Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #28 - on: 04.09.2008 at 16:19 [UT+1] »was just looking back at my post on my dad... i messed up... replace O with I in c

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Demian AllanEx Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #29 - on: 04.09.2008 at 20:31 [UT+1] »Mars in difficult aspect to Neptune can cause mental distress as Carter says, the two planets find it hard to
relate to each other, however i do not think that this leads to scizophrenia. My own personal thoery is that the
4th and 10th axis is the one to look at, MC social standing and the 4th house, family, since it is an ilness thattends to run in the family. Also Uranus is the higher ocave of Mercury, which i think leads to a certain higher
vibrations that could be classified by society as mental illness.
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mistycharm
Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #30 - on: 05.09.2008 at 05:21 [UT+1] »Well, I've seen it happen to know that Mercury poisoning can bring on/trigger schizophrenia. I'm not sure what
represents poison though.

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NeptuneMoon

Member

Re: schizophrenia in a chart« Reply #31 - on: 05.09.2008 at 06:28 [UT+1] »yes i agree wispywillow,, heavy metals in general. my father is a really intelligent man and he is really into
electronics and manipulating electronic things. i remember him working on circuit boards at home andsoldering things, he had a work station set up and everything. inhaling the fumes from all that.. yuk
this contributed to bringing on his illness. in fact i'm certain.

i think

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