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Tom Cruise and Katie divorce? (Read 2559 times)

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Derrick Smith
MemberTom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« on: 29.06.2012 at 21:39 [UT+1] »KATIE AND TOM; what happened?
Tom Cruise, and Katie Holmes;
I wanted to investigage a seemingly iron clad hollywood relationship.
Posts: 98

Invite you to share insights and aspects - How to predict faith or failure in a relationship
My SOL METHOD takes the sun, moon, ascendent and MC plus the 60th harmonic to
divine our most important signs, and relations, as well as solar-arc progressions (of these 8 points)
during a lifetimes. (Please note this method is unique and special, but relatively unknown around the world)
Tom Cruise is 11 cancer sun, 2 leo moon, 9 leo mc and 2 scorpio ascendent.
Katie Holmes is 26 sag sun, moon 17 leo, ascendent 22 leo and mc 15 taurus
Tom has an aquarian sol, Katie is a Capricorn sol.
First, Tom and Katie share the Leo moon, and the 'hollywood' lifestyle.
They share the aquariius sun and moon in the sol degrees, of the 60th harmonic (see sol astrology)
and this is an excellent link.
Katie is a Sag and Tom a cancer, which can be attracting but problematic.
Katie is very smart, while Tom is very loyal to what he wants and loves.
Tom is intense, driven, and perhaps too objectified, as in his scientology or career.
I know Tom with an aquarian sol had a previous relationship with the Aquarian mimi rogers.
But Katie has a capricorn sol sign, the swan, and dolphin, while Tom is the winged horse.
He loves flying, and being in the air it seems, while she is perhaps as much if not the more responsible nature.
Katie shares this sol degree close to the eagle star in late capricorn with sol sun of thomas jefferson
also not far from the sun in conjunct of dolly parton, and kevin costner, all of which arevery much of the "American Eagles".
In traditional astrology, a sun and moon conjunction is a best relationship sign.\
Michelle and Barack Obama have this in the sign taurus.
Katie has a sol 60th harmonic moon at 12 aqurius, and Tom a 13 Virgo sol moon.
The love attraction of Katie for the Aquarian is evidenced in this conjunction to his sol sun.
This is as good as it can get, except that the basic sun sign incompatability here, that isthey will always have to deal with the difference in characters and an affinity in soul nature.
Could the freedom loving aquarian in both of them simply got too much air?
When large amounts of freedom and money are involved, it can be hard to keep to one relationship.
One wonders if Katie got bored, or that Tom was not loyal enough to her. or she to him?
Sag can be capricious, but a sol aquarian can require a great deal of freedom, and a cancer will demand it.
My estimation is that the intensity to religion of scientology (Sag is often keenly religiously)
had some cause in this, and that Katie's purpose of taurus practicality did not fit as well with Tom's leo natures.
There may also be a clear difference in view on career choices.
What say those who use traditional methods, aspects?
such as saturn or neptune and pluto transits for example or rulers of the 7th house perhaps.
Tom's is venus ruled, Katie is aquarian ruled,
She probably wanted more freedom than the controlling Cruiser would admit to giving into.
It could also be money as a factor, but with so much, we may ask how can this be?
Surely, two people who have everything money and life can offer, including a child,and are not able to stay together, this is a curious thing.
suspects are also mars and venus of course, taking one to sway towards different partners.
ANY objective or subjective viewpoints?

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IP LoggedMs. Miranda

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #1 - on: 29.06.2012 at 22:25 [UT+1] »There was nothing "iron clad" about this relationship. I sat back and counted the days until this Saggy gal wasgoing to wake up from the spell she was under. Tom's G is opposite her F. YUCK. He's stifling for her.
Leo Moon's are in love with being in love. And they can be very childish and selfish in their shadow, underdeveloped self versions. Sag and Cancer never make it. My grandparents were this combination, with my Granas the i. But my d grandpa made her feel like she could never make it without him, couldn't survive on her
own. And he was very convincing. Truth is, it was HE who could not live on his own without her to mother him.
Only trouble is, she wasn't fond of motherhood. Another value clash. She stayed with him until he died. And
she was not remotely sad when he did. He's done that big of a number on her for over 50 years. Neither ofthem was able to work in earnest with themselves, and like them, neither were Tom and Katie. They were
playmates, children playing house.
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The transits of Cruise's chart the day they got married say a lot. They got married under a CRx for starters
and it was transiting conjunct his 1st house IhRx. Poor Katie had it Rx in her 3rd house! The day they were
married there was a cluster of EGA and D energy that hit both of their charts in vulnerability spots... For
him it was in his 1st house, for her in the 4th. Overly confident, delusional and capricious.
He's got a 4th house GRx k placement. He's very difficult to live with. Eccentric and fixed. Controlling andstifling. He's also very magnanimous and charismatic, which is typical of narcissistic people. He had her
mesmerized and I'm sure he ate up her adulation.
Katie has t.K m n.Ci which trines her FeRxH12 and squares her 1st house Gf. It's a poignant decision.
Karmic. T.G has been retrograding over her n.J which sextiles her n.Ii. She woke up from a spell is the
only way I can put it. Katie's SR chart has Jj H5 o OdH8 and JjoBgH3. To make is even more "fun" tospot the legal issues is her SR Ggn FbRxH9. Her SR AoOH8 also makes me think that she's really
preoccupied with keeping her daughter away from Tom's influence. SR EH2pJH5pFRxH9... I think she's
developed a lot of self worth in the last year. I don't think she's afraid/intimidated or feels unworthy of him
anymore either. He's not the "demi god movie star" to her. He's a bore in the end. Something really sparked
her in the last year. Who knows. Maybe playing a Rock Star was not too far from "home" for his personality andego?
There is so much to say about these two, but all I can sum it up to is... he had it coming and he's so wrapped
up in his own illusions of himself that I'm not surprised that he's "blind sided" as it has been reported. His SR
has O in the 5th n EH11, and G in his 12th house. He's got a SR AH8 n JH2, too. He's got a lot going on
his SR. And it's not in his favor in the court of public opinion, either.

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Penguin Trauma
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #2 - on: 29.06.2012 at 22:49 [UT+1] »I think a lot of people saw this coming, not as iron-clad as made out by his PR machine.
She does come across as a more traditional homely type of girl, who takes marriage and motherhood seriously

Gf in 1st, plus she has 4th house cluster DCIO and Ej in 5th - I bet it's Cruise that spoils theirdaughter much more than she does (few million $ wardrobe, if the rumours are true of course)
Cruise on the other hand, has BDO in e, quite dramatic and high-maintenance, especially with De(relationships), plus EoO - much unpredictability there, and a Grand Watery trine of AFI - probably
Posts: 8991
Gender:indicating his oh so wacky Scientology crap involvement, especially with F being in susceptible l.
I'd say it's because of the "earthiness" in her (not in spite of), all that intensity, neediness, and craziness fromhim (she had to give birth in total silence, because of this "religion")just unleashed the i in her, sheprobably got claustrophobic and galloped away to freedom faster than any plane he flew in Top Gun. Like i dowhen things get a bit hairy.

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Ms. Miranda

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #3 - on: 29.06.2012 at 23:14 [UT+1] »MSNBC published this little morsel... "All of Cruise's marriages ended when wife turned 33." Interesting...
nothing like a Saturn return to screw your head back on straight.

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colorsofmyheart
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #4 - on: 29.06.2012 at 23:44 [UT+1] »I thought Tom Cruise was a Virgo rising? (Checking....I guess not..Not sure why I thought so)..

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dog8818

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #5 - on: 30.06.2012 at 00:25 [UT+1] »Arrgh, I can't seem to produce their composite chart.... anyone else have that problem?

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hellomoon
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #6 - on: 30.06.2012 at 01:33 [UT+1] »N is hitting Tom's natal N and o his J, sounds painful.

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hellomoon

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #7 - on: 30.06.2012 at 01:38 [UT+1] »here is their composite with his birthtime at noon time/unknown.

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astro_621gw_1056_1055_katie_holmes_tom_cruise_hp.2175.29478.gif

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dog8818
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #8 - on: 30.06.2012 at 02:44 [UT+1] »Soooo... they have DAO 1-8 degrees g. Right now we have AOJ all at 8 cardinal, making a grand squareto their composite g planets. No wonder the divorce was announced today. But the stage has been set since
Uranus' ingress into Aries.
Also, I see that F at 26 b, the fixed star "Algol". There is going to be a war about image in this divorce.
Heads will roll.
My feeling is that Katie has been way patient with some kind of secret that Tom Cruise has; and it's not about
him being "gay" (I mean, really... who cares?). When I saw the promos for that new movie of his, I thought he
was in his element, that this is who he thinks he is underneath it all, a superstar, icon... god.
Posts: 2645
Gender:I don't have anything against the guy; I just think he is hiding his small self under a huge persona and that's
gotta give, sometime. Chances are his wife saw the small self and really loved him for it but he has been takenover by the "machine". The worst thing that could happen to him would be to be "outed" for who he really is.
Something I'm really curious about, too, is how a GI conjunction plays out in a composite chart. One person
is G, the other is I?? We've got to get Beyond the Stars involved in this discussion, she knows about that
stuff.

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Krista ShippMember

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #9 - on: 30.06.2012 at 03:00 [UT+1] »In the not too far future- Tr Gh will hit his ASC- 2 h- leaving the past behind...
Right now- Tr G is in his H 12- never a fun transit..
My gut instinct- I think she turned out to be not nearly as maleable as he had thought...
She's a i with a e moon....she will get on after this VERY well
Posts: 15841
Gender:I DO remember reading an occasional article that she did not want to embrace Scientology to the extent hedoes
Going through that 'silent birth' with their daughter had to be a Scientology nightmare for her....

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Ms. Miranda
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #10 - on: 30.06.2012 at 07:00 [UT+1] »I have nothing but contempt for Scientology. I know way too much about it from having a friend for over 20
years who is one and I have a tome I could write about Tom and his ilk. It produces control freaks anduncompromising, culty behavior. Pure narcissism. And they will cut you out of their life in a heart beat if you do
not go along with their reconstituted reality that Scientology plates up for them. That's what happened to me.
I challenged my friend about her beliefs and she cut me out of her life. She could not even answer myquestions as I asked them. She would get flustered and defensive. If you're defended then you're all in yourego. And all it does is feed the ego. Auditing is just a process of draining the swamp of "negative self talk" andpumping in "positive self talk". It convinces the person that they no longer have a "shadow" which is ridiculous.
If anything it makes people want to kill that part of themselves. And that kind of mental work is great for
breaking ground in becoming sociopathic and Machiavellian, IMO. Denial of Self.
It feeds upon OCD, addictive natures, and co-dependency prone people. It comes off SO EMPOWERING to the
Posts: 3684
Gender:weak ego because it is brain washing. It's a great way to mask, shape shift and learn how to alter your reality ina heart beat. It is a masked form of neuroticism that it creates which makes people so pathetic that they
become arrogant enough to think that they can save everyone and are OBLIGED TO. Save them for what?
FROM what? Answer: the dark realities of life... which are just as delusional as the light realities of life that
Scientology likes to cling to. Best line I ever came across is: "Optimists and pessimists are equally delusional.
Only Optimists are happy about it." Scientology is the science of optimistic delusion. Brain washing with apositive spin cycle.
I hope Scientology's grip on Hollywood is another one of these "institutions" that gets kicked to the curb
during this t Jj transit. It's had a power grip in that town fro too long. Only people don't realize it. That's
why no one ever bad mouths it in Tinsel Town. People are afraid. I hope Katie isn't afraid. I hope she blows thelid off of them. Especially the likes of John Travolta, who I consider a murderer for not caring for his autistic sonproperly. It flies in the face of nature in so many ways. A silent birth is like a woman and a man stifling anorgasm... Not only is that revolting to contemplate, it is an abortion of the natural flow of life, it's counter
intuitive to the process of creation, the affirmation of life, and embracing the depth of our physical, primal
experience. We can't be all "mental" all the time. We are also creaturely and Scientology does not respect orrevere that expression of life. It is in love with it's thought, it's mind, and neglects the part of us that makes us
human.
I think you're right, Krista. I think Tom underestimated Katie. And Scientology will likely distance itself from
him if he brings too much heat on them. Just wait... Between him and Travolta... Scientology is going to take ahuge PR hit. And maybe it will be enough that people will no longer be afraid of its power hold in the
Hollywood much like people are no longer afraid of challenging the government, the president and every otheravenue of authority and tyrannic power. Because that is what he eventually became to her. A tyrant.

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alice bEx Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #11 - on: 30.06.2012 at 07:47 [UT+1] »Besides the T Pluto to the Chiron, retro Mars opposing Mars in 7th I'm sure hasn't been fun, plus look where
the SS and NN nodes are . Have to agree with Mrs. Miranda, it really is an ugly cult. I saw a whole family but
one destroyed by it in the 70s, they lived across the street. Brainwashing, going through your money,
alienating you from other people. In their case it started when the oldest boy had a nervous breakdown as a
sophmore in Harvard in 1969 and got mixed up with it I think he, Katie Holmes,r natural instinct as a mother
won out. Also read that her parents, she had been raised as a Catholic, were none too happy with Scientology,
probably will give her a lot of emotional support. I wonder if they will leave her alone, they are very punative tothose that leave.
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Squirrel
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #12 - on: 30.06.2012 at 07:49 [UT+1] »A lot of this thread is pretty damning talk considering none of us know these people and we weren't in theirhome (and bedroom) with them in order to say what's what and who (if anyone) is wrong.
Also, yeah I think Scientology is BS myself, but because of the inherently asinine (to me) premise of thetans
and all that nonsense. But let's be real here - we're all looking down our noses when we believe in things as wellthat, from a logical standpoint, are just as nonsensical.
Virgins giving birth to babies fathered by deities...that were slaughtered to save us.
A non-human being falling from some invisible place in the sky to supposedly help humanity by giving us
knowledge.
Don't get me started on things like magic, sigils, alchemy, elementals.
Theosophy, Rosicrucianism...
Buddhism, Islam, Judaism...
Anyone in here pulling a holier-than-thou snob act about Scientology, that believes in or practices any of thisstuff (or anything similar), is being inherently hypocritical. And that isn't an anti-spiritual/religious comment hell, I'm a Christian myself. I'm just pointing out the extreme hypocrisy in making fun and being contemptuousof Scientology and their teachings, knowing that what we believe in, whatever it is, is probably just as ludicrous
from a logical standpoint. But we believe anyway, and want to be left alone to do it and to be shown somerespect. We should extend the same to Scientologists.
And no, I don't think that whatever dark side the religion has, is just cause to slam it and its adherents. Prettymuch every belief system has a dark side and some shady goings-on and people in it. So if you want to single
out Scientology for that then you can't say anything when people slam Catholicism and mention the pedophilia
rampant in the Church; or when they point out all the false, money hungry new-age gurus or all the black
magick magicians out there.
But let's be real here - it's okay to slam a belief system that isn't yours, right?
In short I'm saying, this is an astrology board. All the personal attacks and religion-slamming are pretty muchtotally irrelevant to this discussion.
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Running For Snow

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #13 - on: 30.06.2012 at 07:52 [UT+1] »At its simplest isn't this the beginning of transitting J and O making aspects to Tom's A at 11d. That's all
kicking off next year!

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Keyla
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #14 - on: 30.06.2012 at 12:36 [UT+1] »Quote from FeelingForSnow on 30.06.2012 at 07:52 [UT+1]:
At its simplest isn't this the beginning of transitting

J and O making aspects to Tom's A at 11d. That's all kicking off next year!

Yep, I think he would have hard time. As for Katie with iA she will be fine.
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It is interesting though that they announced the divorce just after DRx turned direct - I've read that it's notgood to edn relationships during DRx because always there is revision of the decision later \I actually been
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Krista ShippMember

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #15 - on: 30.06.2012 at 17:04 [UT+1] »I read that each wife he divorced was 33 y/o at the time...
Mimi Rogers, Nicole Kidman, Katie

KSS
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?

StarzzMember« Reply #16 - on: 30.06.2012 at 18:30 [UT+1] »One simple factoid in Katie's chart
The Venus conjunct the Sun 4 weeks ago was sq her Mars Piscese 7th house exact degree 15.
Venus crossing Sun and this was powerful right on the disk is not good for relationships.

Posts: 66
Gender:That major cosmic event squares her Mar's 7th H = man and marriage.
They just took a star flogging.
Not sure wasn't there another cosmic event recently conjunct her MC.
Maybe the Sun/Venus con shows up in Tom's chart too.

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?

Krista ShippMember« Reply #17 - on: 30.06.2012 at 18:51 [UT+1] »http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/29/katie-holmes-scientology-tom-cruise-div
orce_n_1638772.html

Interesting & understandable
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?

Running For
Snow« Reply #18 - on: 30.06.2012 at 20:43 [UT+1] »MemberPluto hits Tom's sun in March next year follow by Uranus in May ... how long do big divorces take?
Katie's looking for sole custody - so there's a real potential for power issues to be coming up here. In fact it
seems given that he wasn't expecting the divorce filing that she's been plotting this in secret for a while so
she's taken the upper hand with the first strike.

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Gender:Now I assume that Tom will be looking to buy her silence in whatever settlement is agreed. But I wonder if she
might just look to take her $15 million plus whatever child support a court is willing to award her so that she
can speak her Sagitarrian truth?

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Mia Mij

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #19 - on: 01.07.2012 at 01:42 [UT+1] »They have quite good composite I think - AmD, ruler in its own sign g, qB and q G adding longevity plus

F aspecting that AmD...I would think it is the perfect composite - love, durability, emotions and expansion...I
cant see from their composite non of the quite hard aspects...perhaps that is the problem? I know few couples
with DmO also in g who are still together after two decades...also Kate herself has her natal DmO, so should
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have been used to it
I dont get looking at ther composite what teared them apart

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clairea
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #20 - on: 01.07.2012 at 08:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Mia Mij on 01.07.2012 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
They have quite good composite I think -AmD, ruler in its own sign g, qB and q G adding longevity plus F aspecting that AmD...I

would think it is the perfect composite - love, durability, emotions and expansion...I cant see from their composite non of the quite hard
aspects...perhaps that is the problem? I know few couples withherself has her natal

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Gender:DmO also in g who are still together after two decades...also Kate

DmO, so should have been used to it

I dont get looking at ther composite what teared them apart

Could it have been a control, power thing with ADJ? I don't know but the little I know of scientology, it
seems very Plutonian.
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Keyla

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #21 - on: 01.07.2012 at 11:32 [UT+1] »Is Suri birthtime known? I think it would be interesting to look at her chart aswell.

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Lynne
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #22 - on: 01.07.2012 at 11:45 [UT+1] »Quote from Keyla on 01.07.2012 at 11:32 [UT+1]:
Is Suri birthtime known? I think it would be interesting to look at her chart aswell.

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astro_2atw_01_suri_cruise.38245.57954.gif

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Running For Snow

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #23 - on: 01.07.2012 at 12:04 [UT+1] »If that time of birth is accurate that looks like one of the toughest charts I've ever looked at ...
I mean you start with BmJ and then you notice it's opposite E and then you find that's part of a t-square.
Then you see that neptune is conjunct the ascendent from the 12th
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Gender:Then elsewhere there's DmO in l and that's trine F ... which suggests this poor girl is going to always find it
easy to be in a relationship (the trine to Jupiter) but they're never going to be stable (Uranus)
The A itself is perhaps the saving grace for the Moon/Pluto/Mars opposition as it makes trines/sextiles to thembut even then it takes a square from Gurn ... I think the voice of authority is always going to be in her ear. The
good thing is that I think Katie's sun trines her sun so that may help things along.
Crikey though ... you won't usually hear me talk about good or bad charts ... but for this one I'm going to
make an exception.
(And of course saturn will be opposing her natal sun over the next few months as the divorce takes shape).

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Lynne
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #24 - on: 01.07.2012 at 13:12 [UT+1] »I've been curious about this little girl because of the extraordinary circumstances of her life. The chart has a AA
Roden rating, and is very interesting.
The odd religious influence of her father is stamped all over the chart. Neptune in Aquarius on the ascendant,kI perfectly describes Scientology, then there's Moon in Sag with controlling Pluto, and the mutual reception
between Pluto and Jupiter, and another mutual reception, if we're considering modern rulerships, between lO
and kI.
The exalted Venus in Pisces also rules the 8th house of inherited money and with Uranus right there I think of
the bizarre wealth that surrounds her, all coming from the Neptunian/Pisces movie industry. And the glamour!
Which links back to Nep Asc....she has that dreamy magnetic quality too. I think there may be issues withexcess and escapism with the Nep square to Jupiter, and the trine from Venus to Jupiter....just so, so much of
everything she could possibly want..where's the limits?
There is no earth in the chart, and very little air...she is all fire and water, pretty unstable actually.
Also interesting that her profected Lord or the Year is Sun, for the father, which disposits Saturn. Transiting
Sun was triggering the T-square in the days before the announcement of the divorce. The T-square planets
were all under the influence of transiting Pluto square Uranus in the last few years....very formative years...andprogressed Moon is somewhere close to the apex Mercury.
Poor little rich girl.
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Running For Snow

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #25 - on: 01.07.2012 at 13:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Lynne on 01.07.2012 at 13:12 [UT+1]:
Poor little rich girl.

Posts: 4782
Gender:That's a great analysis Lynne, much better than my quick description of it.
On the one hand she's going to have all the material wealth and success she wants but it's always going tocome at a massive price. The moon-pluto conjunction - I think knowing what her background is - and seeing itin the 10th is what "scares" me most.
Geez I just feel like she's going to need to spend her life in real therapy to get over all the control issues thatare going to come out of this. You just see her becoming a pawn in the chess match of her parent's lives as
Tom looks to get revenge on Katie for such a public humiliation. Someone already said it that Tom is the dad
who lavishes her with gifts, what's he going to be like when he's only seeing her once a fortnight on visitingrights?
And without any earth in her chart she will compensate by wanting to have material possessions. And given
what you say about Venus, I just wonder how her relationships will be about anything other possessions andstatus. I wonder how she will ever feel true love or happiness.

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Lynne
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #26 - on: 01.07.2012 at 14:51 [UT+1] »Quote from FeelingForSnow on 01.07.2012 at 13:50 [UT+1]:
Geez I just feel like she's going to need to spend her life in real therapy to get over all the control issues that are going to come out ofthis.

Yes exactly, and as you said, the Moon representing family in the 10th house; the public eye..that T-square willseem to play out in front of the whole world....yet she has no earth to ground her and that confusing Neptune
on the ascendant, being the reciprocal for everyone's projections. Not just her parents and loved ones, but thewhole world. Adding to that I wondered when I saw the Aries Mercury conjunct Nth Node if Mercury isrepresenting the media here, among other things.
I think this child is very much loved, but perhaps too much, or so much that she is almost disconnected fromreality. The tightest aspect in the chart is the Mercury/Mars square....? I wonder how that will play out?
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Curiosa Nervosa

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #27 - on: 01.07.2012 at 18:56 [UT+1] »I would like to see both charts with transits AND their solar returns, lunar returns and composite with transits.

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StarzzMember

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #28 - on: 01.07.2012 at 22:50 [UT+1] »In Suri's chart Ascendant is 22-19 Aquarius as the Pluto square Uranus transit midpoint strikes 1 degree away.
This could be a major factor for great disturbance in her life at this time.
That coupled with Venus crossing the Sun Squared the Mothers Mars in the 7th house at 15 degrees.
Tom may be in bad cycle , they said his last movie flopped. Hope the poor chap finds his way out of
Scientology.

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Penguin Trauma

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #29 - on: 02.07.2012 at 20:40 [UT+1] »I think this is going to get bigger than "just" the high-profile divorce of an A-list celeb.
With OoJ, and more aptly, the recent FoI, plus C about to go retrograde in e - I reckon the focus will
shift to Scientology as a whole, and the sinister practices they use to prevent people from leaving, etc.
I can see this exploding rather spectacularly soon as a lot of dirt gets exposed (Jj)

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Mia Mij
Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #30 - on: 02.07.2012 at 23:24 [UT+1] »I think both of them planned on how divorce will get out into the open. I dont think Katie did it behind hisback and surprised him with submitting divorce papers.

Posts: 31

Why I think this? Well just thinking about both of them...so she always had an image of a bit conservative girl,proper, without any scandals, loyal, modest...They must have had a long time problems if she decided todivorce him and she still through that period remained loyal to preserving undamaged image of them appearing alongside him on Oscars with a huge smile, went to Icelend two weeks ago where he is at the
moment shooting a movie where they were pictured holding hands...What I am trying to say is, my feeling isthat they have deep friendship inherent between them and she showed tremedous loyalty to him even in thetimes of dificulty in their marriage and I dont think she would humiliate him by running off and surprisingg him
with divorce papers as media presented and as Tom's pr said on his behalf. I think it is all very well planned byboth of them.
So even though she may not agree with Scientology or there were some other issues that teared them apart, I
think they talked about their divorce, agreed and planned how their divorce will be presented in media mostly
in accordance to Tom's wishes. So to make long story short I have a hunch everything will be silent, with nofighting in courts etc.
Regarding Suri, I think they agreed for her to be under Katies sole custody, but I think they also have agreed
that Tom can see her whenever he wishes, which would be fine for a 50 year old man with quite a busy
schedule...
We will see what will really happen

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Lynne

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #31 - on: 02.07.2012 at 23:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Curiosa Nervosa on 01.07.2012 at 18:56 [UT+1]:
I would like to see both charts with transits AND their solar returns, lunar returns and composite with transits.

So why don't you study at them and make some comments, and post them so other people can look at them.
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Spiral 28
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #32 - on: 03.07.2012 at 00:54 [UT+1] »A good number mystery: all three of his wives have divorced Tom at the age of 33.

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #33 - on: 04.07.2012 at 20:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Spiral 28 on 03.07.2012 at 00:54 [UT+1]:
A good number mystery: all three of his wives have divorced Tom at the age of 33.

Maybe he should finally stick to Cher anyway. No such risks. I've read it was her who introduced him to carnal
pleasures anyway.
I cannot imagine how anyone on Earth finds this guy desirable though. He seems such a heartless brainwashedrobot. Only thing improves with him is his talent. But in real life it's as if he was living a life totally isolated
from reality. He must have issues which he is reluctant to face and that's when Scientology comes handy.
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Deborah
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #34 - on: 04.07.2012 at 20:25 [UT+1] »Suri natal chart:

Sun square Saturn semi-square Uranus (in first house with D within minutes)
All natal promises.

Her A in late Aries, father’s sun sign, mother or Moon 28SAG, so I think Tom Cruise has finally met his matchin Katie Holmes.

At age 6, has her 10th house Pluto/Moon being Triggerd to the 4th house therefore, bringing the natal
promise to her focus now., parents (10th/4th) fighting for control over the child) instigated by the mother(Moon) in the 10th.
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PlutotrineMars

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #35 - on: 04.07.2012 at 23:08 [UT+1] »The media is ripping Scientology apart as a result of this. I don't think this would have been orchestrated byboth of them if they are indeed so chummy.
i doesn't submit to religion or philosophy unless it is their own personal truth. There is no compromise if they
are forced to submit.
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MialiseMember

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #36 - on: 05.07.2012 at 15:00 [UT+1] »Quote from PlutotrineMars on 04.07.2012 at 23:08 [UT+1]:
The media is ripping Scientology apart as a result of this. I don't think this would have been orchestrated by both of them if they areindeed so chummy.

i doesn't submit to religion or philosophy unless it is their own personal truth. There is no compromise if they are forced to submit.
Posts: 660
Gender:

You are right, media is on to Scientology. But media would do the same in any case or any scenario...they did it
after he was jumping on Oprahs sofa and after almost very story on Tom - media was on to Scientology...so
we'll see

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Curiosa Nervosa

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #37 - on: 05.07.2012 at 18:26 [UT+1] »Quote from Lynne on 02.07.2012 at 23:50 [UT+1]:
Quote from Curiosa Nervosa on 01.07.2012 at 18:56 [UT+1]:
I would like to see both charts with transits AND their solar returns, lunar returns and composite with transits.

Posts: 4365

So why don't you study at them and make some comments, and post them so other people can look at them.

Ok, post the charts then.
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SteveS
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #38 - on: 05.07.2012 at 19:02 [UT+1] »It was reported Katie Holmes Father who is a lawyer, told Katie to move out of Tom’s house in early June 2012
without telling Tom the real reason for moving. Below is Katie’s June 2nd Secondary Progressed Natal Chart.
Some important aspects to note:
1: Sec Prog. Sun Partile conjunct Sec. Prog. Mars.
2: Sec. Prog. Moon Partile square Sec. Prog Sun & Mars.
3: Sec. Prog Venus Partile square Sec. Prog Saturn* Since the Natal Moon progresses by a secondary rate of 13 degrees per year, it was probably her sec. prog.
Natal Moon partile squaring her Sec. Prog. Sun-Moon partile conjunction which timed this split and now a filingfor divorce. **Many times with important events we see one of our 4 Moons involved with Partile aspects. Our
4 Moons are:
1: Natal Moon
2: Sec. Prog Natal Moon
3: Solar Return Moon
4: Sec. Prog. Solar Moon.
Ebertin says about Moon-Mars negative manifestations:
Quote:The tendency to become involved in quarrels, the demonstration of intolerance, marital differences.

Some excellent SR symbolism and Profection (LOY) symbolism for this split/divorce are:1: LOY—Venus
2: SR Venus by 7 minutes of arc is Partile square SR Saturn.
3: SR Venus Partile 135 to Natal Saturn.
4: Sec. Prog. Solar Moon will form a Partile Conjunction with her Precessed SR Saturn in a couple of months.
With Partile aspects alone, including natal secondary progression, we see a triple whammy of Venus-Saturnsymbolism, excellent symbolism for a split/divorce. ‘Partile aspects reign supreme’.

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Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #39 - on: 05.07.2012 at 22:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Curiosa Nervosa on 05.07.2012 at 18:26 [UT+1]:
Quote from Lynne on 02.07.2012 at 23:50 [UT+1]:
Quote from Curiosa Nervosa on 01.07.2012 at 18:56 [UT+1]:
I would like to see both charts with transits AND their solar returns, lunar returns and composite withtransits.

So why don't you study at them and make some comments, and post them so other people can look at them.
Ok, post the charts then.

She won't as she's gone, but aren't you insolently lazy here, Curiosa? Nobody is your servant. If you want tosee charts post them for yourself, dear.
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rookishMember

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #40 - on: 06.07.2012 at 15:53 [UT+1] »Not a great composite with IG near IC from 3h (restraint/control, religion, thinking, home) and E 7h there's agression there. AmD is usually good to see, but here they are conjunct with and squeezed between
J and O over the g / 2h cusps. These are heavy weights pulling this relationship apart - power and rebellion,
self and security. Presumably progressed A is in h by now, and this will show in the vehemence of theenergies used at this time. I'd think that G passing over that ADg a couple of years ago started a lot of
examination, and the recent movement of E backwards and forwards over these placements highlighted theenergy available to make change on a personal and relationship level.
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Zen88

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #41 - on: 10.07.2012 at 16:53 [UT+1] »latest development - out of court divorce settlement:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2171490/Katie-Holmes-insists-ironcl ad-clausedivorce-settlement-ban-Suri-attending-Scientology-parties-church.html
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Running For
Snow

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #42 - on: 10.07.2012 at 19:03 [UT+1] »Member11 days to reach a settlement - that all seems too quick for my liking - particularly given the Pluto action that's
dues in Tom's chart. Even if you throw money at a problem, and have lots of the stuff to throw, I'm notconvinced you can make good decisions at that speed. Feel like we'll be hearing more on this in the future.

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Deborah

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #43 - on: 10.07.2012 at 19:37 [UT+1] »Quote from FeelingForSnow on 10.07.2012 at 19:03 [UT+1]:
11 days to reach a settlement - that all seems too quick for my liking - particularly given the Pluto action that's dues in Tom's chart. Even
if you throw money at a problem, and have lots of the stuff to throw, I'm not convinced you can make good decisions at that speed. Feellike we'll be hearing more on this in the future.

IF the article is correct, per the prior auditor as to what's actually going on in Scientology, and the one at thehelm who Tom Cruise calls his best friend/best man at the wedding, then, we should be looking at Tom Cruise
natal chart to try & see WHy this man has turned his entire life over to a cult-relgiion in the first place.
Why would anyone do this, let alone such a fabulously wealthy man as he is.
To choose a wife, to choose the terms of the divorce, to tell a practioner, what and when to do something thatworks best for the Church itself.
There has to be something in his natal pointing to this mindset or lack of one.
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Running For

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?

Snow« Reply #44 - on: 10.07.2012 at 20:21 [UT+1] »MemberThere's an interesting analysis of Tom from 2006 over here ...
http://www.astrodynamics.net/Articles/Celebrities/Cruise.htm
This bit might answer your question ...

Posts: 4782
Gender:Quote:Tom has a tight conjunction of Chiron (healing and wisdom) to Jupiter (opportunity and philosophy), and both are retrograde. The
combination of these two planets indicates a person who is drawn to healing philosophies and who may have experienced an early wound(Chiron) around religion and philosophy (Jupiter), possibly in Catholic schools as a child. We know that he at one point thought of entering
the Catholic priesthood but later joined the Church of Scientology. The Chiron/Jupiter conjunction is opposed by Pluto (god oftransformation and destruction) in his chart. Pluto opposing Jupiter is often a placement of power (Pluto) struggles and self-righteous
dogmatism (Jupiter), and with Chiron involved there is a constant and painful irritation that creates a need for continual change andtransformation. We have certainly seen Tom Cruise's tendency to be dogmatic and self-righteous over the past year in his lack ofsensitivity to the problems of others. This is usually a sign of someone who is hiding from their own emotional difficulties under the guiseof healing themselves.

And of course he's having his Chiron return at the moment with it at 7 Pisces.
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Erik Heyninck

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #45 - on: 10.07.2012 at 23:38 [UT+1] »Sometimes, like now, I think you're all worse than scientists using living animals for his experiments. You use,
no: misuse astrology to dissectliving human beings, not to help anyone but to prove your self-righteousness,
your spaced-out ego's to be the spermatozoid who gets first to the egg. Who is the best and the mostaccomplished of the pack.
Posts: 193

They happen to be famous, yes. But they are still human beings like you and me, wanting to be happy and get
rid of their mysery and frustration. Our task is to help, not to prove we are the elite.

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Astrochologist
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #46 - on: 11.07.2012 at 02:34 [UT+1] »Their composite has moon square pluto which was triggered by a progressed mars in Tom Cruise chart, I haveto dig it up again.

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Deborah

Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #47 - on: 11.07.2012 at 03:40 [UT+1] »Quote from FeelingForSnow on 10.07.2012 at 20:21 [UT+1]:
There's an interesting analysis of Tom from 2006 over here ... http://www.astrodynamics.net/Articles/Celebrities/Cruise.htm
This bit might answer your question ...
Quote:Tom has a tight conjunction of Chiron (healing and wisdom) to Jupiter (opportunity and philosophy), and both are
retrograde. The combination of these two planets indicates a person who is drawn to healing philosophies and who may
have experienced an early wound (Chiron) around religion and philosophy (Jupiter), possibly in Catholic schools as a child.
We know that he at one point thought of entering the Catholic priesthood but later joined the Church of Scientology. The
Chiron/Jupiter conjunction is opposed by Pluto (god of transformation and destruction) in his chart. Pluto opposing Jupiteris often a placement of power (Pluto) struggles and self-righteous dogmatism (Jupiter), and with Chiron involved there is aconstant and painful irritation that creates a need for continual change and transformation. We have certainly seen Tom
Cruise's tendency to be dogmatic and self-righteous over the past year in his lack of sensitivity to the problems of others.
This is usually a sign of someone who is hiding from their own emotional difficulties under the guise of healing themselves.

And of course he's having his Chiron return at the moment with it at 7 Pisces.

Thank you, that would make a lot of sense.

7Pisces is conj. Fixed star "SKAT" (a great misfortune)

But he didn't have to give in to the Cult leader either , that's giving your mind over to another.
He does have free choice, or should if he's mentally alert.
Checking his chart just now, I see his natal E is also m Algol, and this in itself, can be quite damaging asvibrations go, but doesn't negate one's own free will to change either.
He's simply giving in to the vibrations from what it appears to be to me.
And of course even when Astrologers are criticized for observing and commenting on public figures, there will
always be those who for some reason or other (can't be for the love of Astrology?) will have a problem with it.
Makes you wonder how the ancients observed what was going on with their Military generals, andEmperors,/Kings, etc. when one does not read a chart , observe and learn and then pass that info down toothers over time.
I'm pretty certain if Mr.Cruise hired an astrologer to help him out, help him to understand himself better, thatastrologer would more then likely point out not so much what he wants to hear, but what he needs to hear tohelp this seemingly life out of control.
Is this wife #4 now?
I think something is seriously wrong here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBZ_uAbxS0(have you all watched this video, that Scientology tried to close down in the past?)
He speaks of the SPs (those who left Scientology, and have now alternate views" as "less then" (see
4:10onward, to 4:50 where he starts laughing
I had a younger sister who was a hippie during the 1970s, and was brainwashed by a cult, and she laughed andtalked the same way! It was shocking to see.
Fast forward after the 4:10-4:50s to 8:42 point. His natal F in mutable l o C (Rigel) (a huge fortune to behad) at least in monetary gain in this life, given to him, as Rigel promises the money you make you may keep
but must work hard to keep it too. The down side must be this square in mutable signs.
Do we have a time of birth for him?
I'm looking at a Solar chart.

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Zen88
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #48 - on: 11.07.2012 at 05:53 [UT+1] »Katie Holmes was wife #3; Mimi Rogers being #1, Nicole Kidman #2;
I don't think there is a published birth time for Tom Cruise.
Posts: 630

Base on his looks, I am guessing a fixed sign Asc. Him being so secretive and private, I thought it might be
Scorpio. His daughter, Suri, has Aquarius Asc, so I am thinking his could be Aquarius, too. I am not good withguessing asc or rectification.

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PlutotrineMars

Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #49 - on: 11.07.2012 at 06:28 [UT+1] »Cults give you a network to which you always belong and can therefore never feel alone. That's a sense of
security that money and romantic love cannot replicate. I know someone who belongs to a cultish religion like
this, and I sense that is what he finds most valuable in it.
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Fifi La Fif
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #50 - on: 11.07.2012 at 06:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Erik Heyninck on 10.07.2012 at 23:38 [UT+1]:
Sometimes, like now, I think you're all worse than scientists using living animals for his experiments. You use, no: misuse astrology todissectliving human beings, not to help anyone but to prove your self-righteousness, your spaced-out ego's to be the spermatozoid whogets first to the egg. Who is the best and the most accomplished of the pack.
They happen to be famous, yes. But they are still human beings like you and me, wanting to be happy and get rid of their mysery andfrustration. Our task is to help, not to prove we are the elite.

Yes you are quite right in your observations. Be careful you do not turn into one of those ego big heads.....
Tom is just a human who has a weak sense of self......like all good actors....it is this weakness that allows themto take on other characteristics and why they are so hugely successful.
But this weak sense of self and his huge success of this weakness or characteristic....has opened him to contact
with others that feed it...tell him things that bolster his ego...feed his weakness into thinking it isdifferent...another act. Poor guy has 'bought it' and is therefore controled. A controlled person is not subject
to his own thoughts.
I feel sorry for his predicament. He has feelings, just thinks he is different from who he is and now believes all
the junk the 'emperor clothes' salemens tell him.
Kate is one very sharp cookie. But she sees it for what it is.... the advisers using him, controling his life and all
in it for their own gains.
And Erik has it right....astrology is just another control system. No better or worse than scientology. All ittakes is one smart astrologer like L ron H to use it for their own ends to control charging astronomical sums....
at its base it is the same. It allows for the control of others by one.
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Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #51 - on: 11.07.2012 at 07:26 [UT+1] »Quote from Fifi La Fif on 11.07.2012 at 06:40 [UT+1]:
Quote from Erik Heyninck on 10.07.2012 at 23:38 [UT+1]:
Sometimes, like now, I think you're all worse than scientists using living animals for his experiments. You use, no: misuse
astrology to dissectliving human beings, not to help anyone but to prove your self-righteousness, your spaced-out ego's tobe the spermatozoid who gets first to the egg. Who is the best and the most accomplished of the pack.
They happen to be famous, yes. But they are still human beings like you and me, wanting to be happy and get rid of theirmysery and frustration. Our task is to help, not to prove we are the elite.

Yes you are quite right in your observations. Be careful you do not turn into one of those ego big heads.....

Tom is just a human who has a weak sense of self......like all good actors....it is this weakness that allows
them to take on other characteristics and why they are so hugely successful.
But this weak sense of self and his huge success of this weakness or characteristic....has opened him to contact with others that feedit...tell him things that bolster his ego...feed his weakness into thinking it is different...another act. Poor guy has 'bought it' and istherefore controled. A controlled person is not subject to his own thoughts.
I feel sorry for his predicament. He has feelings, just thinks he is different from who he is and now believes all the junk the 'emperor
clothes' salemens tell him.
Kate is one very sharp cookie. But she sees it for what it is.... the advisers using him, controling his life and all in it for their own gains.
And Erik has it right....astrology is just another control system. No better or worse than scientology. All it takes is one smart astrologer
like L ron H to use it for their own ends to control charging astronomical sums.... at its base it is the same. It allows for the control ofothers by one.

I disagree with that. Not all good actors have a weak sense of themselves and in Tom's case it's rather a"distorted" sense of self and thus the world around him. I want to apologize in advance to Cancerian folks forsaying this, but a good proportion of them, especially men can be so narcissistic and rigid. I haven't yet
discovered the details of this, but this phenomena does exist.
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beyond the stars
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #52 - on: 11.07.2012 at 08:26 [UT+1] »Yes, I think it's fairly common knowledge by now that the element of water doesn't gel well with testosterone.
Given how men are socialised by society, you're more likely to see a water sign male unable to fully express
himself and his depths, and therefore the energy gets too readily perverted and becomes negative. This is not
something to ignore or take lightly; instead, it seems like more of a tragedy than anything else. I think that toa large extent society makes it difficult for water sign (or otherwise sensitive) men, or men with significant
water sign placements (natal moon, for example). The energy has nowhere good to go and is too often bottled
up or used against the native or against others.
Posts: 1005

Not to mix too many metaphors, but water signs need an outlet for their/our emotions, and if the outlet isdenied or messed with too heavily by being warped or twisted, then I think you'll find the emotions are not justdeleted, ignored, or denied, as they can sometimes be for the other elements; instead, they become dangerous
for all sorts of reasons, in many different ways. We all have emotions, but it's my belief that the four different
elements handle them differently, largely depending on the emotional health of the native, and the balance ofelements in the natal chart.

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Triple Cardinal

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #53 - on: 11.07.2012 at 08:37 [UT+1] »As a double Cancer, I can attest that many Cancer personalities are anxiety- or fear-based, which easily explains
their being so self-absorbed. They are primarily concerned with self-protection. It's the bedrock of theirthinking.
Posts: 37

A horoscope would have to have amazingly fine placements and aspects to negate this tendency. It is deeply,
deeply ingrained.

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Fifi La Fif
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #54 - on: 11.07.2012 at 09:22 [UT+1] »Oh stop projecting. Really you know nothing about his life and how he feels. I was married to a cancer withmars, sun and uranus there. I didnt see any of this stuff. He was and will always be incapable of financially
supporting anyone...worked hard but everyone took advantage of him, felt deep guilt for not being able toprovide, but he is none of what you say. I havent known him to be selfish in the least - just idiotically trustingwith his time and his skill and his money.... that others will keep their word and pay him for work done.
Cruise is caught in an 'emperors clothes' situation. He is controled in a controlling religion that has wrecked
others. We all know the history of that religion and effects on others lives.
All the evidence points that he is a decent person caught in the hands of master manipulators that are wrecking
his life.

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Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #55 - on: 11.07.2012 at 10:38 [UT+1] »Quote from Fifi La Fif on 11.07.2012 at 09:22 [UT+1]:
Oh stop projecting. Really you know nothing about his life and how he feels. I was married to a cancer with mars, sun and uranus there. I
didnt see any of this stuff. He was and will always be incapable of financially supporting anyone...worked hard but everyone took
advantage of him, felt deep guilt for not being able to provide, but he is none of what you say. I havent known him to be selfish in theleast - just idiotically trusting with his time and his skill and his money.... that others will keep their word and pay him for work done.
Cruise is caught in an 'emperors clothes' situation. He is controled in a controlling religion that has wrecked others. We all know thehistory of that religion and effects on others lives.
All the evidence points that he is a decent person caught in the hands of master manipulators that are wrecking his life.

If you think logically, I couldn't be talking about your ex as I don't know him. And as all generalizations thisone doesn't prove true to all Cancers of course. But I happen to know a couple of Cancerian folks who - in spiteof the watery empathetic, caring and nurturing nature of this sign - are surprisingly egocentric. As if theymissed the empathy chip..or as if they couldn't grow out of that childlish self-centered universe.
I cannot feel sorry for a 50 year old man who's being manipulated by Scientology. As I said earlier he clearly
can't face his emotional issues and tries to escape the wrong way but pays the price. It's his choice and not myfault, so don't blame me.
And look into the mirror: please, you stop projecting. Or not. We are all doing that to a certain extent. But you
don't need to know someone personally to guess what's going on in their psyche. That's quite common in
everyday life. It's called attribution in social psychology and we couldn't exist without it (a reference toFónagy's mentalization theory is quite appropriate here also).
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clairea
Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #56 - on: 11.07.2012 at 10:53 [UT+1] »I am sorry for Tom Cruise, the AFI grand trine in water I imagine would indicate difficulties with his sense
and strength of self and boundaries, his idealism, then caught up in Scientology.
Victim of his own self inflation.

Posts: 760
Gender:There was a documentary in the UK made by the BBC by Panorama where a, you would think hardened
journalist went to Florida to do an expose-a on Scientology, they broke him! briefly. It is interesting viewing.
I don't know how to post links and would probably be criticised anyway, but anyone can google it.

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Running For Snow

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #57 - on: 11.07.2012 at 13:30 [UT+1] »Quote from PlutotrineMars on 11.07.2012 at 06:28 [UT+1]:
Cults give you a network to which you always belong and can therefore never feel alone. That's a sense of security that money andromantic love cannot replicate. I know someone who belongs to a cultish religion like this, and I sense that is what he finds most valuable
in it.

Posts: 4782
Gender:Spot on. I read a book on influence a few years ago where they looked at cults and people like Jim Jones, andhow they brainwash people. The researcher, who was obviously very clued up about cults and their methods,
detailed how at one point they went to 'join' a cult for the weekend. At the end of the weekend when he cameto leave he was amazed by how easily he had felt himself slipping into the cult mentality - he almost didn't
want to leave! The weekend hadn't been about any kind of indoctrination - it had been about everybody loving
and hugging with each other which of course is the sort of life we'd all love to be part of. But of course that's
just the opening stages - later the control, the rules, the unreasonable demands, the changing boundaries all
start to occur. If you question any of that you get given a difficult emotional choice - if you want to be part ofthis beautiful love-in you have to accept the rules, but if you don't then you leave and you're ostracised andyou risk never feeling that connected to anyone again. In that context it's easy to see why Tom stayed with
Scientology over divorcing wife #3.
Tom's chart has that Saturn opposition Moon squashing his ability to self-nurture and self-love, it has that tightgrand trine in water that wants to merge with others. He needs and wants to feel that connectedness that hecan't find anywhere else in the world.
Does any of this make him a bad person - of course not - just a bit misguided and still struggling through life
like the rest of us!

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Curiosa Nervosa
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #58 - on: 11.07.2012 at 14:01 [UT+1] »Quote from Zen88 on 11.07.2012 at 05:53 [UT+1]:
Katie Holmes was wife #3; Mimi Rogers being #1, Nicole Kidman #2;
I don't think there is a published birth time for Tom Cruise.

Posts: 4365

Base on his looks, I am guessing a fixed sign Asc. Him being so secretive and private, I thought it might be Scorpio. His daughter, Suri,
has Aquarius Asc, so I am thinking his could be Aquarius, too. I am not good with guessing asc or rectification.

He is asc h w I1st http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Tom_Cruise
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Deborah

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #59 - on: 11.07.2012 at 22:09 [UT+1] »ref:Quote:
I cannot feel sorry for a 50 year old man who's being manipulated by Scientology. As I said earlier he clearly can't face his emotional
issues and tries to escape the wrong way but pays the price. It's his choice and not my fault, so don't blame me.

I agree with you ramez.
He's an adult, and has made the decisions in his life as an adult. Good ones for business, perhaps REALLY badones for those under his care, i.e. the children, and apparently this newer wife Katie , didn't want her
daughter subjected to what she saw this adult male doing to his other 2 (now teenager?) children.
He is raising them, not Nicole Kidman.
Katie perhaps had the benefit too of a family who is strong and can see them for what they are, and also theadvantage of having a daughter willing to listen to her father's advice. That's unusual too in this day & age.
Most think they know it all, but she was willing to listen and perhaps weigh the pros and cons. The cons
outweighed the pros I'm sure especially when looking at her daughter's potential future there . Must have been
like a prison, albeit a wealthy prison, still a prison of the mind.
Sad indeed!
I think it has nothing at all to do with the generalities of a A d or any other signs. It's in the details of thenatal chart only.
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Zen88
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #60 - on: 12.07.2012 at 04:52 [UT+1] »Quote from Curiosa Nervosa on 11.07.2012 at 14:01 [UT+1]:
Quote from Zen88 on 11.07.2012 at 05:53 [UT+1]:...
I don't think there is a published birth time for Tom Cruise.

Posts: 630

Base on his looks, I am guessing a fixed sign Asc. Him being so secretive and private, I thought it might be Scorpio. His
daughter, Suri, has Aquarius Asc, so I am thinking his could be Aquarius, too. I am not good with guessing asc or
rectification.

He is asc

h w I1st http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Tom_Cruise

Thanks, CN, for the link.
I wonder why astro.com shows his chart with an unknown time. Is astrotheme.com's time not AA?
His scorpio ASC might also account for his religious fervor.
« Last Edit: 12.07.2012 at 21:10 [UT+1] by Zen88 »Back to top

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alice bEx Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #61 - on: 12.07.2012 at 14:32 [UT+1] »I agree with some of the posts about Tom Cruise's chart and his childhood and teenage years were difficult.
Not unusual to see one try to compensate for self esteem issues. I remember reading that Katie Holmes'
parents were less than thrilled about the marriage and had real difficulty with Scientology. Her family was much
healthier than Tom's. I think the real reason the divorce was settled so quickly is that some of the news
channels, CNN for one, was having a field day blasting Scientology and showing Tom Cruise at his worst. They
can't afford one of their biggest spokesman's to look foolish; it makes their cult look bad. Also by coming to aquick and "adult" settlement it makes Tom Cruise look better.
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Deborah
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #62 - on: 12.07.2012 at 19:22 [UT+1] »Quote from alice b on 12.07.2012 at 14:32 [UT+1]:
I agree with some of the posts about Tom Cruise's chart and his childhood and teenage years were difficult. Not unusual to see one try tocompensate for self esteem issues. I remember reading that Katie Holmes' parents were less than thrilled about the marriage and had realdifficulty with Scientology. Her family was much healthier than Tom's. I think the real reason the divorce was settled so quickly is thatsome of the news channels, CNN for one, was having a field day blasting Scientology and showing Tom Cruise at his worst. They can't
afford one of their biggest spokesman's to look foolish; it makes their cult look bad. Also by coming to a quick and "adult" settlement it
makes Tom Cruise look better.

I agree with all your points, but having something new to propose.
That we look at Katie Holmes chart a bit more.
I was listening last night to ET Tonight, (I think it's called) on TV, and they went step by step how Katie H.
knew for months now since before Father's Day (1st week of June?) that she was divorcing Tom, but he hadnary a clue at all.
Supposedly, according to friends, she had a deliberate 5 step program, she followed to a "T" and pulled it off,completely catching him blindsided.
They were all together on Father's Day, and something about on location at his movie site.
It just left me with the impression that Katie Holmes is rather dishonest or was in not being upfront in favorof?
Why would one do this, be so dishonest with the man (who thinks you love him
beating you or otherwise, you absolutely HAD to be so sneaky with?

) if he was not of course

I can't imagine myself living this way with anyone, perhaps TOO honest! My lifelong mantra "To Thine own self
be true,and as night follows day, will not be false to another"
But then again, I've always preferred honesty, even when it hurt to be so, myself or unfortunatly at times,
another. So I can't even imagine living this way even for 2 months, 5 weeks, whatever or the justification for
doing so.

D i t E pG
What's up with her?
ET Tonight Show proposed that besides the Scientology thing, she wanted to be more then Mrs. Cruise, andhated that her own career was in a stalemate. Individuality being ultra important to her, I can understand thiseasily enough, it's the sneaky way of accomplishing it, I don't understand.

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Deborah

Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #63 - on: 12.07.2012 at 19:30 [UT+1] »Perhaps this trait is seen then, by her F o D with D near fixed star, Zuben Elgenubi h15
both her C D in Detriment, and furthermore her 4th house (home life) D m O likewise, on a critical star,Charubel dubbed "the evil degree" of Scorpio, saying, "no good shall come of it" for it depicts the worse degreeof the worse sign (not my words, but Sepharial's words.

After studying these degrees and fixed stars associated here, for years, I've come to the conclusion he knew ofwhat he spoke.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Holmes,_Katie
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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?

Running For
Snow« Reply #64 - on: 12.07.2012 at 20:05 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from Deborah on 12.07.2012 at 19:22 [UT+1]:
Quote from alice b on 12.07.2012 at 14:32 [UT+1]:
I agree with some of the posts about Tom Cruise's chart and his childhood and teenage years were difficult. Not unusual tosee one try to compensate for self esteem issues. I remember reading that Katie Holmes' parents were less than thrilled
about the marriage and had real difficulty with Scientology. Her family was much healthier than Tom's. I think the realreason the divorce was settled so quickly is that some of the news channels, CNN for one, was having a field day blasting

Posts: 4782
Gender:Scientology and showing Tom Cruise at his worst. They can't afford one of their biggest spokesman's to look foolish; it
makes their cult look bad. Also by coming to a quick and "adult" settlement it makes Tom Cruise look better.

I agree with all your points, but having something new to propose.
That we look at Katie Holmes chart a bit more.
I was listening last night to ET Tonight, (I think it's called) on TV, and they went step by step how Katie H. knew for months now since
before Father's Day (1st week of June?) that she was divorcing Tom, but he had nary a clue at all.
Supposedly, according to friends, she had a deliberate 5 step program, she followed to a "T" and pulled it off, completely catching him
blindsided.
They were all together on Father's Day, and something about on location at his movie site.

It just left me with the impression that Katie Holmes is rather dishonest or was in not being
upfront in favor of?
Why would one do this, be so dishonest with the man (who thinks you love himof course beating you or otherwise, you absolutely HAD to be so sneaky with?

) if he was not

I can't imagine myself living this way with anyone, perhaps TOO honest! My lifelong mantra "To
Thine own self be true,and as night follows day, will not be false to another"
But then again, I've always preferred honesty, even when it hurt to be so, myself or unfortunatly
at times, another. So I can't even imagine living this way even for 2 months, 5 weeks, whateveror the justification for doing so.

D i t E pG
What's up with her?
ET Tonight Show proposed that besides the Scientology thing, she wanted to be more then Mrs. Cruise, and hated that her own career was
in a stalemate. Individuality being ultra important to her, I can understand this easily enough, it's the sneaky way of accomplishing it, I
don't understand.

Perhaps you've been lucky enough never to land yourself in a shitty relationship with a control freak ... but I
can tell you that if you're dealing with someone whom you don't trust or who is controlling or who is always
making threats or uses emotional blackmail ... then you learn during that relationship you don't give too muchinfo away ... because being open and honest or truthful ... they just throw that stuff back in your face and use
it against you ... now I'm not saying that Tom is that type of person but I believe the Church of Scientology
doesn't always plays nicely when there's stuff at stake.
So imagine the scenario you're suggesting ... Katie says to Tom ... "I don't think we're right for each other and
I'd like us to go to marriage counselling and if that doesn't work then we should get divorced". Perhaps Tom's
up for it, but perhaps the Church step in and they start spreading rumours about Katie's poor mothering abilityor they find someone who is willing to say she had an affair with them or some such stuff ... where's herleverage for getting a good divorce settlement to be sure that she can protect her daughter?
But equally she could be a shitty bitch who's only self-interested ... or it could be that these are rumours being
spread to make her look bad ... I'm assuming the Church have connections in the media ...
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Zen88

Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #65 - on: 12.07.2012 at 20:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Deborah on 12.07.2012 at 19:22 [UT+1]:... but having something new to propose.
That we look at Katie Holmes chart a bit more.

Posts: 630

I was listening last night to ET Tonight, (I think it's called) on TV, and they went step by step how Katie H. knew for months now since
before Father's Day (1st week of June?) that she was divorcing Tom, but he had nary a clue at all.
Supposedly, according to friends, she had a deliberate 5 step program, she followed to a "T" and pulled it off, completely catching him
blindsided.
They were all together on Father's Day, and something about on location at his movie site.
It just left me with the impression that Katie Holmes is rather dishonest or was in not being upfront in favor of?
Why would one do this, be so dishonest with the man (who thinks you love him) if he was not of course beating you or otherwise,

you absolutely HAD to be so sneaky with?
I can't imagine myself living this way with anyone, perhaps TOO honest! My lifelong mantra "To Thine own self be true,and as night
follows day, will not be false to another"
But then again, I've always preferred honesty, even when it hurt to be so, myself or unfortunatly at times, another. So I can't evenimagine living this way even for 2 months, 5 weeks, whatever or the justification for doing so.

D i t E pG
What's up with her?
ET Tonight Show proposed that besides the Scientology thing, she wanted to be more then Mrs. Cruise, and hated that her own career was
in a stalemate. Individuality being ultra important to her, I can understand this easily enough, it's the sneaky way of accomplishing it, I
don't understand.

I was shocked and dismayed when I read about the deception, subterfuge, because I do not expect this in Katie
Holmes' high-minded Sag sun.
May be the arms of Scientology is strong and long necessitating in such actions?
May be she gave in to her Scorpio Venus (and as suggested by Deb, is afflicted)?
May be the toe the line, submit-to-institution/tradition Capricorn Mars that enabled her to "embrace" hererstwhile husband's religion, also enable her to adhere to the logistics laid out by her lawyer-father?
Also, I am not sure it was/is low self-esteem that attracted Tom Cruise to Scientology or the need forconnectedness and 'healing' after his dysfunctional childhood.
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Zen88
Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #66 - on: 12.07.2012 at 20:34 [UT+1] »[quote author=FeelingForSnow link=1341002347/60#64 date=1342119939]Quote from Deborah on
12.07.2012 at 19:22 [UT+1]:
Quote from alice b on 12.07.2012 at 14:32 [UT+1]:
I agree with some of the posts about Tom Cruise's chart and his childhood and teenage years were difficult. ...

Posts: 630
Perhaps you've been lucky enough never to land yourself in a shitty relationship with a control freak ... but I can tell you that if you're
dealing with someone whom you don't trust or who is controlling or who is always making threats or uses emotional blackmail ... then you
learn during that relationship you don't give too much info away ... because being open and honest or truthful ... they just throw that stuff
back in your face and use it against you ... now I'm not saying that Tom is that type of person but I believe the Church of Scientology
doesn't always plays nicely when there's stuff at stake.
So imagine the scenario you're suggesting ... Katie says to Tom ... "I don't think we're right for each other and I'd like us to go to
marriage counselling and if that doesn't work then we should get divorced". Perhaps Tom's up for it, but perhaps the Church step in andthey start spreading rumours about Katie's poor mothering ability or they find someone who is willing to say she had an affair with themor some such stuff ... where's her leverage for getting a good divorce settlement to be sure that she can protect her daughter?
But equally she could be a shitty bitch who's only self-interested ... or it could be that these are rumours being spread to make her lookbad ... I'm assuming the Church have connections in the media ...

Sorry, FeelingforSnow, our posts crossed. I was composing and answering phone calls at the same time.
Didn't realize you have already posted the same thing.
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Deborah

Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #67 - on: 12.07.2012 at 20:42 [UT+1] »Wow, I didn't expect my post to be so controversial, but rather, a post that is objective, based on the long(years of observation of vibrations, via fixed stars in the zodaic and how they 'May" impel one in the life if you
are not aware of them, and don't work to stop them from leading you in a certain direction. i.e. free will.
My eldest has 15h on her MC, as well as many many I could cite of charts i have of public people
My husband has 19ScorpioRising. It's not like I'm projecting here, I'm simply doing what all astrologers
SHOULD be doing, imo, studying, observing and then reporting (sharing) the findings of the vibrations.
These two I just mentioned are very negative and inharmonious vibes, and that is NOT to say, that my eldest
daughter is in any way immoral or a bad person, she's lovely person who many people gravitate towards for her
overt friendlinessI'm very proud of her actually, but I can also see this Star working (implelling her) at times, less seen in the
public eye.
She has admitted as much to me so I know of what I speak when I say, 'it is very inharmonious to a lighter
perspective or view on life, unless you become aware of yourself and your own actions, (of which she works
hard to do)
The other, i.e. the so-caleld evil degree (Charubel & Sepharial dubbed), 19h which Katie Holmes has in her
4th with D indeed, may see the world in such a b & w fashion, (terms) that she'd find using the "other vibes"
more what i call the sneakier ones, to then, take the child far away from the influences, (although we also read,that the very successful and fast settlement coming to terms between the two parents concering theirdaughter) provides for flexible and plentiful visitation rights, but on her terms no doubt.
I simply thought to add that I see the 4th house in Katie Holmes natal as monumentally important.
Take it or leave it, your "subjective/objective " choice here. We all choose our own tools when we evaluate natal
charts, etc. or should, imo.
Constellation of Words:
19Scorp: (The Scales, - found in the North Scale of Libra):
With Uranus: Economical, great self-control, psychic, material instincts, many difficulties, good for gain but
much expenditure, loss through law and enemies, help from influential friends, occasional peculiar domestic
disharmony, sudden death often from heart trouble. [Robson*, p.204.]
15Scorp:According to Ptolemy and the old writers it is of the nature of Saturn and Mars, but later authors substitute
Saturn and Venus or Saturn and Mercury, and Alvidas likens it to Mars, Venus and Saturn. It causes
malevolence, obstruction, an unforgiving character, violence, disease, lying, crime, disgrace, and danger of
poison. [Robson*, p.205.]
With Venus: Bad for marriage, sudden and secret death, may be poisoned owing to jealousy of one of own
sex. [Robson*, p.205.]
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Deborah
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #68 - on: 12.07.2012 at 21:19 [UT+1] »Ref: Feeling for Snow:
Quote:
Perhaps you've been lucky enough never to land yourself in a shitty relationship with a control freak ... but I can tell you that if you're
dealing with someone whom you don't trust or who is controlling or who is always making threats or uses emotional blackmail ... then you
learn during that relationship you don't give too much info away ... because being open and honest or truthful ... they just throw that stuff
back in your face and use it against you ... now I'm not saying that Tom is that type of person but I believe the Church of Scientology
doesn't always plays nicely when there's stuff at stake.
So imagine the scenario you're suggesting ... Katie says to Tom ... "I don't think we're right for each other and I'd like us to go to
marriage counselling and if that doesn't work then we should get divorced". Perhaps Tom's up for it, but perhaps the Church step in andthey start spreading rumours about Katie's poor mothering ability or they find someone who is willing to say she had an affair with themor some such stuff ... where's her leverage for getting a good divorce settlement to be sure that she can protect her daughter?
But equally she could be a shitty bitch who's only self-interested ... or it could be that these are rumours being spread to make her lookbad ... I'm assuming the Church have connections in the media ...

Actually, yes, my entire life has been about others trying their best to control. Exercising control, even when it's
very immoral to do so, and will eventually be seen as such for he is very hurtful to so many (a son in law who is
exercising ownership over my granddaughters) for instance , comes to mind)
My posts are usually quite objective for the most part, so I don't for a moment believe she is a "shitty bitch"
nor that he is an out of control- control freak, as someone I know personally is now affecting my life has
proven to be .
I can come to no such subjective conclusions about another's morality this way especially people who I
have no knowledge of other then what is written or reported, (not personal knowledge) as in a one to one
relationship.
Just reading vibrations as they appear to me in the natal itself.
Doesn't Tom Cruise have planets in his 12th too?
Can't recall, but it appears that Katie does. If it's her B she was able to successfully keep her emotions underwrap.IMO.
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Running For Snow

Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #69 - on: 12.07.2012 at 21:25 [UT+1] »Quote from Deborah on 12.07.2012 at 21:14 [UT+1]:
Ref: Feeling for Snow:
Quote:
Perhaps you've been lucky enough never to land yourself in a shitty relationship with a control freak ... but I can tell youthat if you're dealing with someone whom you don't trust or who is controlling or who is always making threats or uses

Posts: 4782
Gender:emotional blackmail ... then you learn during that relationship you don't give too much info away ... because being open
and honest or truthful ... they just throw that stuff back in your face and use it against you ... now I'm not saying thatTom is that type of person but I believe the Church of Scientology doesn't always plays nicely when there's stuff at stake.
So imagine the scenario you're suggesting ... Katie says to Tom ... "I don't think we're right for each other and I'd like
us to go to marriage counselling and if that doesn't work then we should get divorced". Perhaps Tom's up for it, but
perhaps the Church step in and they start spreading rumours about Katie's poor mothering ability or they find someone
who is willing to say she had an affair with them or some such stuff ... where's her leverage for getting a good divorce
settlement to be sure that she can protect her daughter?
But equally she could be a shitty bitch who's only self-interested ... or it could be that these are rumours being spread tomake her look bad ... I'm assuming the Church have connections in the media ...

Actually, yes, my entire life has been about others trying their best to control. Exercising control, even when it's very immoral to do so,
and will eventually be seen as such.
My posts are usually quite objective for the most part, so I don't for a moment believe she is a "shitty bitch"

nor that he is an out ofcontrol- control freak, as someone I know personally is now affecting my life.
I can come to no such subjective conclusions about another's morality this way.
Just reading vibrations as they appear to me in the natal itself.
Doesn't Cruise have planets in his 12th too?
Can't recall, but it appears that Katie does.

Hi Deborah - I think you're probably reading a lot of my comments more personally than I intended. I was justthrowing out options - none of which I have any definite answers to. Anyway ... I didn't mean to distract.
I don't think there is a definite chart for Tom. Most of them have time of birth unknown. One I have seen is for
3:04pm which puts Neptune on the Ascendent and Leo moon on the midheaven. It almost looks like amanufactured (rectified) time of birth because all the aspects fit so nicely. But it could be true.
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Deborah
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #70 - on: 12.07.2012 at 22:58 [UT+1] »Perhaps so, e may be on an angle.
I wonder if it's 28Leo or any connection to Regulus, (the King star) in his natal chart ? That would beinteresting to see
as its certainly been up to the top in his profession for him.
Quote:
I don't think there is a definite chart for Tom. Most of them have time of birth unknown. One I have seen is for 3:04pm which puts
Neptune on the Ascendent and Leo moon on the midheaven. It almost looks like a manufactured (rectified) time of birth because all the
aspects fit so nicely. But it could be true.

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LibraRising

Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #71 - on: 12.07.2012 at 23:24 [UT+1] »Is there anything in the chart to indicate a strictly financial arrangement or agreement (rather than romantic)
between Tom and his wives? Or his wives playing the role of "beard?"

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Deborah
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #72 - on: 13.07.2012 at 00:20 [UT+1] »Quote from librarising on 12.07.2012 at 23:24 [UT+1]:
Is there anything in the chart to indicate a strictly financial arrangement or agreement (rather than romantic) between Tom and his wives?
Or his wives playing the role of "beard?"

Nicole Kidman Scorpio Rising 6th deg.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kidman,_Nicole

Has F at the MC in e and since F is ruler of her 2nd, is enormously wealthy in her own right.
Both then and now.
Now sure about Mimi Rogers, will have to look further for her:no tob:http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Mimi_Rogers
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PlutotrineMars

Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #73 - on: 13.07.2012 at 00:27 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez on 11.07.2012 at 10:38 [UT+1]:
Quote from Fifi La Fif on 11.07.2012 at 09:22 [UT+1]:
Oh stop projecting. Really you know nothing about his life and how he feels. I was married to a cancer with mars, sun anduranus there. I didnt see any of this stuff. He was and will always be incapable of financially supporting anyone...worked
hard but everyone took advantage of him, felt deep guilt for not being able to provide, but he is none of what you say. I

Posts: 1948
Gender:havent known him to be selfish in the least - just idiotically trusting with his time and his skill and his money.... that
others will keep their word and pay him for work done.
Cruise is caught in an 'emperors clothes' situation. He is controled in a controlling religion that has wrecked others. We allknow the history of that religion and effects on others lives.
All the evidence points that he is a decent person caught in the hands of master manipulators that are wrecking his life.

If you think logically, I couldn't be talking about your ex as I don't know him. And as all generalizations this one doesn't prove true to all
Cancers of course. But I happen to know a couple of Cancerian folks who - in spite of the watery empathetic, caring and nurturing natureof this sign - are surprisingly egocentric. As if they missed the empathy chip..or as if they couldn't grow out of that childlish self-centered
universe.
I cannot feel sorry for a 50 year old man who's being manipulated by Scientology. As I said earlier he clearly can't face his emotional
issues and tries to escape the wrong way but pays the price. It's his choice and not my fault, so don't blame me.
And look into the mirror: please, you stop projecting. Or not. We are all doing that to a certain extent. But you don't need to know
someone personally to guess what's going on in their psyche. That's quite common in everyday life. It's called attribution in social
psychology and we couldn't exist without it (a reference to Fónagy's mentalization theory is quite appropriate here also).

Yeah what's the point of this site- or of analyzing our own and others' charts on here- if you care so muchabout projection and dissecting people's lives- if that is so un-ethical to you I guess you shouldn't study
astrology at all?? Celebrities are interesting to discuss in a forum like this simply because we all know who weare discussing. Of couse we don't TRULY know them- but that's why astrology is interesting, right? We can get
a better glimse into the phsychology. I don't think people are necessarily bashing Tom on here- we all have
weaknesses. He is just interesting to discuss because he has lived most of his adult life mastering his own
domain to an extreme that most people do not have the willpower to match, however there is an obvious
weakness and a breakdown that happens when someone puts so much energy into CONTROL.. I think this Plutotransit is going to teach him that he has to let go a bit.
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Cherubrie
Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #74 - on: 13.07.2012 at 04:57 [UT+1] »Quote from Spiral 28 on 03.07.2012 at 00:54 [UT+1]:
A good number mystery: all three of his wives have divorced Tom at the age of 33.

...and there was apparently exactly 7 years in between all his marriages. Cant find the source for this, as it wasin one of my regular wind down junk mags.
Could this 7yr cycle have anything to do with cycles of G and'control'?
Personally, i believe it was the only avenue Katie could go, to stay quiet, and plot this out through the law andher close family. Control freaks can be very deceiving when they need to, for self gratification of theircontrolling natures. She did well to protect her daughter from a set future of scientology doctrine.

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rookishMember

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #75 - on: 13.07.2012 at 14:06 [UT+1] »Quote from librarising on 12.07.2012 at 23:24 [UT+1]:
Or his wives playing the role of "beard?"

What does this phrase mean?

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Red Bull
Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #76 - on: 13.07.2012 at 14:13 [UT+1] »^ Marry/date woman to cover he's gay or divert from some other secret in his life.

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Deborah

Ex Member

Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #77 - on: 13.07.2012 at 17:45 [UT+1] »Quote from rookish on 13.07.2012 at 14:06 [UT+1]:
Quote from librarising on 12.07.2012 at 23:24 [UT+1]:

Or his wives playing the role of "beard?"

What does this phrase mean?

I had the same question, but forgot to ask
Mimi, the 1st wife apparently had people wondering back in the 70s or so, as I recall, having done an interview
in which she laughed about his sexual prowess not being 'up to snuff" (not her exact words) but that was thegist of it.
From there, the lawsuits and insinuations took root over the many decades. At least 3 lawsuits, and all found in
his favor, for multi-millions of accusations unfounded concerning his sexuality.
Never being able to prove anything other then insinuations and ongoing gossip all started with Mimi's quips.
Who knows if there is any veracity to any of them.
Just as with the other Scientologist, famous celebrity John Travolta, unless they come out of the closet (andwith this much on the line, decades of box office receipts), we probably would never know, only rumours ineither camp.
I did read however that Scientology does not endorse homosexuality. They audit you for that.
Trying in the public to verify anything of course such as serious as these charges, is darn near impossible.
I suppose even the Stars have their right to privacy too, while they make a huge living, "publically" .
Kind of a contradicition in terms in many ways.
Honesty might be (after all) the best policy, as the old saying goes.

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #78 - on: 13.07.2012 at 19:42 [UT+1] »MemberAnd of course the rumours weren't helped by him and Nicole adopting (rather than procreating) two children
while subsequently she had two biological children with her new husband.

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Re: Tom Cruise and Katie divorce?
« Reply #79 - on: 14.07.2012 at 05:53 [UT+1] »Then Suri should have put the rumors to rest. You can see both Katie H and Tom C in her.
I suppose the tabloids need to feed the flame.
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