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Natal charts for animals (Read 2298 times)

ThetisMemberNatal charts for animals« on: 16.04.2007 at 21:50 [UT+1] »We have just got a new kitten, (orange and fluffy) and I had a quick look at his chart.
I was wondering how valid people thought the information would be regarding an animal instead of the usual
human subject.
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lcmofoMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #1 - on: 16.04.2007 at 21:53 [UT+1] »only thing i think of is how accurate is the birth time or day. i know enough to know my kitty is a taurus, but
his bday is all a guess, let alone time. though he IS very taurus. lazy. wants to eat all day.

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AchernarMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #2 - on: 16.04.2007 at 22:13 [UT+1] »I have limited experience in this area, but you remind me of an evening I spent in a pub with a stranger and hisdog, in the late 1970s when I went around armed with an ephemeris and a table of houses. Both the man andhis dog had charts with an emphasis on Moon, Uranus and Neptune, and we spent a happy couple of hours
discussing the man's and the dog's personality, and the adventures they had shared together. I was certainly
convinced that astrology was relevant to the dog, as well as to the man.
Best wishes
Achernar
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Lindac7

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #3 - on: 16.04.2007 at 22:16 [UT+1] »My last two cats, a boy and a girl, were Pisces and Scorpio, respectively. I got them both as kittens, so I knew
their birthdays, but not the time they were born. I never spent much time studying their charts, but over the
13 or so years that I had them both, I definitely noticed their Sun sign tendencies in their personalities.
My current cat I'm clueless about. I got her at the Humane Society, and they estimated her age at 18 months.
The best I've been able to figure out is she's probably an Aries, because she has energy like I've never seen ina cat, and she never quits!
As you might have guessed by now, I think natal charts for animals are valid.

The tricky part is knowing

what time they were born.
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Bill Capricorn
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #4 - on: 16.04.2007 at 22:27 [UT+1] »Our cats are a good study of sun sign and element. We now have all four. The picture is Candido, Libra. Will
prefer company of other cats to food itself. Sings. A Pisces, Maura, very mysterious and in her own world. Moki,an old Virgo black cat, pretty much on his own now and picky about food. Lastly Edna, a firey Sagitarius kittenvery much into what is going on around her and very active.
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plutorising

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #5 - on: 16.04.2007 at 22:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Achernar on 16.04.2007 at 22:13 [UT+1]::::snip:::you remind me of an evening I spent in a pub with a stranger and his dog, in the late 1970s when I went around armed with anephemeris and a table of houses. Both the man and his dog had charts with an emphasis on Moon, Uranus and Neptune:::snip:::
Best wishes
Achernar

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I thought for sure you were going to say "both the man abd his dog had...a couple of Tequila Sunrises"...

Love this thread - I have had many cats and several dogs in this life and lucky enough to have been present andable to note birth times on several. Currently have a little Cancer guy with:: oops:::I just checked myfiles...Libra Asc. - not Pisces:::
One of the most sensitive (and playful) kitties I've ever lived with.
Loves to stare at walls...chase his own tail...plays hard and wild but becomes a complete introvert at the vet.
;}
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stillife
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #6 - on: 16.04.2007 at 22:47 [UT+1] »I'm glad somebody started this thread because I've been thinking about pet sun signs. My older cat, I have noidea what sign she is because I adopted her from a shelter when she was an adult (5-7 years old). I think she
might be a Scorpio because she's extremely manipulative and demanding. She has an intense green gaze
which frequently seems rather evil, especially when she's looking at the other cat (she's very jealous of him).
My younger cat I adopted as a kitten, and the vet said he was about 5 months old, so I have a rough idea ofhis birth date (late May/early June). He could be a Taurus, but I think he's a Gemini. He's a little orange andwhite guy with a sturdy build, very cautious yet extremely curious - he's interested in everything. And while
he's not a noisy cat, he has an amazing variety of vocalizations. It's like he's talking to me. He's a picky eater,
unlike my female cat. He wakes me up in the middle of the night with his purring. He's very easily entertainedby just about anything. I had a cat years ago, also an orange and white, also a Gemini, and the similarities
between the two are quite striking.
I love my kitties.
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Ellie

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #7 - on: 16.04.2007 at 23:27 [UT+1] »My cat is a Gemini and you've just described him - purrfectly!
My previous kitties, two brothers, were Taureans and totally different - very territorial and devoted to their(human) family members.
I've heard that in animal astrology the position of the moon is an important key. Is there any truth in this, I
wonder?
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #8 - on: 17.04.2007 at 02:07 [UT+1] »I'm sorry to be a killjoy, but it is this type of discussion that gives astrology a bad name.
if one understands the astrological system to be somehow bound up with psychological processes, thenwhatever correlation there is between birthtime and personality cannot possibly apply to animals...
are animals rational? do they reflect on their existence? do they ask questions? what makes astrology a humanscience is that it is bound up with their ability to do such things... and to cast charts! it is a symbolic system
which is about interpreting experience... of course, you will be able to find character traits in your pets based

Posts: 463
Gender:on sun sign astrology.... because you are interpreting their behaviour in the light of that system ofinterpretation... but you cannot ask them how they FEEL about things, or what they THINK about a situation..
so there is no way to assess the interpretation with their 'personality'...
the problem comes down to things such as: what role do outer planetary positions play in the charts ofanimals? can an animal have a pluto transit? what might it be like? a severe emotional trauma?
don't get me wrong here. i love animals and i love my pets...
sun sign astrology is good fun... sometimes.... most of the time it makes serious astrologers look like fools.

Dru
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Arcangelo

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #9 - on: 17.04.2007 at 02:15 [UT+1] »dr dude that's too funny

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dr_dudeMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #10 - on: 17.04.2007 at 02:25 [UT+1] »yeh, i was laughing when i wrote it... but not as much as all the sceptics will be when they read this thread...

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stillife

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #11 - on: 17.04.2007 at 02:40 [UT+1] »Why would sceptics even be on this thread? They're going to laugh at astrology regardless.

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dr_dudeMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #12 - on: 17.04.2007 at 02:52 [UT+1] »This is the internet. Anyone can look at this thread...
Check out Danbison's thread to see the discussion there, and you'll see where i'm coming from...
Astrology's biggest problem, like Christianity, is not from people who don't believe in it, but from those who
supposedly do...

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Bill Capricorn

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #13 - on: 17.04.2007 at 05:07 [UT+1] »I'm flagging this for abuse. Dr Dru is overboard with his ideological approach. He has no right to laugh atothers because his beliefs do not match with others.
Cat and Moon by WB Yeats
THE CAT went here and there
And the moon spun round like a top,
And the nearest kin of the moon
The creeping cat looked up.
Black Minnaloushe stared at the moon,

5

For wander and wail as he would
The pure cold light in the sky
Troubled his animal blood.
Minnaloushe runs in the grass,
Lifting his delicate feet.
10
Do you dance, Minnaloushe, do you dance?
When two close kindred meet
What better than call a dance?
Maybe the moon may learn,
Tired of that courtly fashion,

15

A new dance turn.
Minnaloushe creeps through the grass
From moonlit place to place,
The sacred moon overhead
Has taken a new phase.
20
Does Minnaloushe know that his pupils
Will pass from change to change,
And that from round to crescent,
From crescent to round they range?
Minnaloushe creeps through the grass
Alone, important and wise,25

And lifts to the changing moonHis changing eyes.
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Alois
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #14 - on: 17.04.2007 at 06:51 [UT+1] »Quote from dr_dude on 17.04.2007 at 02:07 [UT+1]:
if one understands the astrological system to be somehow bound up with psychological processes, then whatever correlation there is
between birthtime and personality cannot possibly apply to animals...

You (YOU) can understand astrology this way. But others can understand it and use it in another way. You may
find this funny or ridiculous. Others may find your position narrow minded.
In astrology it is not the theoretical basis which counts. It does not really have a strong one anyway. Astrology
has always been used much more openly, by observing, also by projecting. Astrology is more an art than aPosts: 1976
Gender:science. There are many ways to paint a picture.
Astrology is applied to many things, buildings, enterprises, all kinds of events, all kinds of human creations.
Pets are to some extent human creations, too. They were made into a special kind of animal, closely linked tohumans.
There are great astrologers I know who look also at pets astrologically. The main problem with cats is the exact
birth time, and the procedure to tell the individuals in a litter apart. Careful breeders note the times, Liz Greene
told me, so for her cats she has charts including ascendants.
In the German section of astro.com we have a column about animal astrology, where the Swiss animal
astrologer Ursula Liechti is publishing stories out of her practice.
http://www.astro.com/col/in_at_intro_g.htm
It would be great if you would show a bit more respect for the feelings of those who access astrology differently
than you do. If you need to laugh about them, please do, but maybe more in private. Please try not to put
them down as ridiculous.
PS: my late dog, Ilia, was born on 29 May 1997, between 2 and 5 am, in Glarus, Switzerland. She certainly
showed gemini traits, she really liked to talk and was very curious.

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TommyMac1018

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #15 - on: 17.04.2007 at 07:02 [UT+1] »Dr. Dude, by your hypothetical conceit, we can say the same thing about the horoscope of someone who is an
autistic mute, who theoretically has no way of communicating to us what it is he's feeling, or whether his birthchart is an accurate reflection of his personality. Likewise for a young lady who has spent the duration of her life
in a coma, and her parents want you to draw up her horoscope so they can at least gain some sense ofunderstanding for what's going on inside their daughter's mind, because she physically cannot communicate it
herself. Sure, as human beings, both cases have psychological make-up with access to as many planets one
may so desire to cast in a horoscope, but just the same, s/he may be virtually incapacitated and can offer us asastrologers nothing him/herself.
But this does not invalidate a horoscope.
Posts: 111
Gender:If we can cast horoscopes for nations, marriages, building constructions, the growth of a garden -- for one seesthat astrology and horoscopes, like religion, is a means of gaining understanding to something that could
otherwise completely elude us -- or anything else we can so theoretically conceive, as human beings, why doesit seem so fatuous to do so for one's pet?
Certainly the animal can experience a strong Pluto transit. It could die. It could be diagnosed with somethingterminal. Its mate could be murdered, whether by another animal or run down on the side of the road. And theanimal's responses are the individual animal's responses, colored by its species. And of course, reading all of
this into an animal can be silly. But then again, the very notion that a bunch of people will go out with a table
full of arcane numbers, speak in equally arcane terminology about "Houses" and "oppositions" and "T-squares"and "Neptune conjuncts North Node in the 10th" like a bunch of astronomical geometry students gone on speed
is equally silly when one really thinks about it, wouldn't you say?
Astrology is a reflection and understanding of nature, and everything is apart of it, including the animals, so topresuppose because your animal does not get up and tell you, "Well, when Neptune squared my Moon, I was
overwhelmed and cried all day," for surely this is what it is you are expecting when you suggest they cannot
communicate to you feelings, is ludicrous.
I don't know what your pets do, but when my cat is ill, his mood turns intolerable. When my female cat isthirsty, she runs into my bathroom and sits on the toilet, hops into the tub and meows, and far from a mere
vessel where I can dump unfulfilled psychic whatnot, she is more perceptive to things and moods and currents
my precious humanity -- which can cast a horoscope, mind you, for my humanity has clearly made me pinnacleof life and master of the known universe -- still cannot process, like when I bring a partner home who is
untrustworthy, but I am too infatuated with his/her beauty to notice, and she in turn nips his/her hand.
"Jennifer, what on earth are you doing!" I'll scold to my meager beast. And when things do not work out withsuch a partner, after Jennifer has urinated up and down the bed where this new beloved sleeps beside me tostress her distaste and revulsion, I have to look at my animal and say, "Good girl." Mind You, The animal! She
may also just not like my choice in bedmates, but she obviously can express her feelings, and I know nothing of
my cat's sun sign to see this.
I had two cats, and they behaved nothing like each other, and I know nothing of their sun signs to project
anything. Any person who keeps animals will tell you this.
At the very least, casting a horoscope for a child, or a cat, or a monkey, or whatever, like any belief system,
gives one hope, a sense of potency and some basic faith to believe that we have some sense of understandingof what's happening out there, even if this understanding is illusionary. To all those who believe in a God of any
kind, we have evidence to suggest that no such being exists, yet just the same these people persevere on in
their beliefs because it gives them so hope, and some sense of understanding, which can be enough. Ask any
fiery type and they'll tell you this themselves. So who are we to look down upon them for it?
I'm also becoming inflamed and starting to ramble on, which I find to be a travesty...
This is not to say, Dr. Dude, that you are not entitled to your opinion. I am no scholar and cannot claim
objective authority on any issue, let alone what you believe based on whatever evidence. But I'm entitled to myopinion as well, and I find yours here highly provocative and disgustingly arrogant, not to mention immensely
dismissive. Please excuse me, Doctor, and I beg the indulgence from the rest of the thread for going on in sucha fashion, which I can see is highly inappropriate, though just the same, I simply had to respond to this.
I... I think it was just such a dismissive thing to say, especially with your mentioning that you find this funny orwhatever, and now I have to stop talking, because I'm coming to realize that this is really bothering me, andI'm an airy type, and you know what we airy types do when we get too emotive. We stop talking...

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #16 - on: 17.04.2007 at 07:07 [UT+1] »My two cats, brother and sister, are typical Leos. I catch them out partying all night, drinking, smoking,turning over trash cans in the alley, whooping it up..... I'm sure they think it's all in good fun. But when theyrace down to the basement to play in the litter box......that's where I draw the line!
Seriously, I've had cats all my life, watched a few give birth, and yes, mine did tend to act like their signs.

I'm

not getting Leo cats again, though. LOL They are also very mouthy and I can't get them to quit talking back to
me. Dang, teenagers.....

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dr_dudeMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #17 - on: 17.04.2007 at 10:03 [UT+1] »Hi -i can see i caused offense here, so i apologise.
btw --- the 'wink' emoticon before a post usually means that it's to be taken in jest --- which means that my'laughing' was IRONIC not laughing for real... that's the problem with conveying tone in email and posts....
often your sense is missed, as it obviously has been in this case...

Posts: 463
Gender:i still disagree with the topic of this thread, much in the same way as would disagree with a philosophicalposition i thought was erroneous. my reason for disagreement is not a theoretical disagreement, nor is it oneof personal preference. it is an ETHICAL one.. by that i mean that the public face of astrology is one that is inserious need of renewal. pop astrology is all well and good (and may well be treated as a bit of fun, nothing
wrong with that), but on a forum which is meant to represent the astrological community on a worldwide scale,and which does present a public face of astrology, i think is important for dissent to be expressed, withinreason, in order to show that we are reflecting critically on our tradition of astrology and trying to find ways topush it forward in responsible ways.
i do find it amazing that i can post a lot on this forum, and have generally had positive responses, and ONE
post can be taken in this way... that what i have said in other posts, and in giving astrological advice, iscompletely overlooked and my opinion taken simply to be irrelevant and arrogant. if you look carefully at myother posts you will see that i take care to be sensitive to issues that really require sensitivity. i am in most of
my work a very pastoral thinker. so what is a concern for the health of our discussion is most certainly not
arrogance. i am simply applying my experience and reflection in astrological (as well as other) study and stating
my conclusions. in this case, conclusions that many have found to be disagreeable.
Bill -- you obviously have taken a dislike to me for some reason (as also evidenced by your post on our lacan
thread) --- so i won't continue to bother you with my analyses or critique... and if my assessment is correct, iwould ask that you refrain from flaming my posts...
Alois -- i respect your post here and have noted your concern. i will refrain from posting on the pop threads
and will step back from active participation on the forum and observe for a while, posting only on threads that iam already involved with. it's clear that my critical and academic style is out of place here, which i think is ashame.
with respect
Dru

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Alois

Re: Natal charts for animals

Global Moderator« Reply #18 - on: 17.04.2007 at 10:42 [UT+1] »Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor

Dr Dude, I really did not mean to make you stop posting. I actually only tried to express a voice of'moderation' because I had received a complaint as moderator. I am not the best man for expressing the finetones and often sound harsh. The fact that English is only a second language for me should be considered. plus
the strong Saturn in my chart.
I appreciate your contributions very much.
Regarding your high aim to help renewing "the public face of astrology": this is certainly a complex process,because the 'Lady Astrology' has a complex personality with many shades and a long history.

Posts: 1976
Gender:I am saying something politically incorrect in many ways, but I try to say it anyway. Astrology has often been
compared to an old whore, she has served many masters and many purposes. If you look through history, there
have been endless attempts to 'clean her up', to renew her, and she has survived all of those. These attempts
are important, the reformers and cleaners have made highly valuable contributions to astrology. To name just afew, Johannes Kepler, Thomas Ring, many others.
Popular astrology, even trash astrology will continue to be alive, besides deeply philosophical and psychologicalapproaches to it. In some respect, astrology can be compared to music, where we also have all levels as part ofour culture and our tradition. One does not have to approve of all kinds of music and can still enjoy a lot of it.
So please, do not step back, but continue.
with respect
Alois

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Nastasja

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #19 - on: 17.04.2007 at 10:49 [UT+1] »I'm sorry but I don't see what is so offensive about Dr. Dru's posting. I've only been here a short while, and a
lot of the more valuable comments were written by him. To accuse him of being narrow minded is easy,
especially if this is said by someone with authority, such as an Forum Administrator.
If Dr. Dru was merely expressing 'a' view on astrology and animals, I can just say that I'm sharing thatparticular view. Should you consider me narrow minded because of that, please feel free to let me know.
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Alois
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #20 - on: 17.04.2007 at 11:14 [UT+1] »Nastasja, I tried to moderate my moderation statement in a second one. I am sorry if I sounded authoritarian.

Not everything I say is said with authority, or from the position of authority. I am not such a good astrologer,
and also not such a good philosopher. My talent is elsewhere, I am a pretty good programmer, first of all.
I also did not post as 'Forum Administrator' with the lion's coat, but as myself.
And finally, I wrote 'other may find your position narrow minded', not 'I find...'.

Posts: 1976
Gender:I am certainly not less opinionated than DrDude is (people who know me could tell a lot about that), but I needto act differently here, as forum moderator. At least I try.

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Soturna

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #21 - on: 17.04.2007 at 12:31 [UT+1] »Huh, i'm salivating over the pics of the LOVELY cats...
I think if, horoscopes are being casted for companies, why not living, intelligent (specialy cats) animals...

They are not aware in their irrationality, but we are and boy, do they have personality.
I heard about people asking charts for trees...
Anyway, my 15 yo Pisces cat looks like a seal (shares my moon position), is incredibly calm, nice, NEVER
scratched or bited anyone... hates water, though.
My 1 yo Aries cat (my ascendant) is a torpedo. Has this pointed face, bites like s**t, even her black fur has
redish shades. She's fanatic about water
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Nastasja
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #22 - on: 17.04.2007 at 12:41 [UT+1] »Nobody ever said you couldn't draw a chart of an animal. Dr. Dru merely pointed out that any interpretation ofthat chart could not be checked with the animal you're talking about and therefor your interpretations arehighly subjective.
Saying 'my cat hates water, although it has its Sun in Pisces' makes no sense whatsoever, because the majorityof cats hate water.
Animals have no feelings. We can train and condition them, so they do what we want them to do. Animals arereigned by instincts, hormones and genes (as are humans, but we're able to think). Usually animals are smart
enough not to bite the hand that feeds them, and a lot of people tend to see this as 'love' or 'affection'.
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Soturna

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #23 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:13 [UT+1] »Oh... i saw the light. Thaaank you for the lesson, i had no idea.
See, i like to have fun with sun signs. And I don't give a f*** if u're so «offended». It makes me laugh thissilly taboo about sun signs... Obviously i know astrology is so vast and complex, etc.
Thank you for making me grin.
P.S. - I agree with Doc Dru and TommyMac.

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stillife
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #24 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:20 [UT+1] »Quote:
Animals have no feelings.

A lot of pet owners, myself included, would disagree with that assertion.
FYI, not all cats hate water. My little Gemini cat is quite fascinated by water. He drinks a lot of it, he likes to go
in the shower after I've had a shower (when the water is turned off), and he plays in his water dish every day.
He's also fascinated by airplanes. We joke that he's waiting for his spaceship to take him back to his native
planet. Anyone who doesn't believe that animals have individual personalities has never gotten to know an
animal.
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Nastasja

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #25 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:20 [UT+1] »What makes you think I'm offended?
And if you agree with Dr. Dru, then why do you say things like 'my cat with a Sun in Pisces dislikes water'?
Unless you're convinced that writing silly things is fun-fun-fun ...
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sirius1
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #26 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:25 [UT+1] »*Animals have no feelings. We can train and condition them, so they do what we want them to do. Animals arereigned by instincts, hormones and genes (as are humans, but we're able to think). Usually animals are smart
enough not to bite the hand that feeds them, and a lot of people tend to see this as 'love' or 'affection'.
[/quote]*******************************************************************************
so why are so many cats traumatized if they have no feelings as you see in asylums everywhere ?
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Nastasja

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #27 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:27 [UT+1] »FYI, not all cats hate water. - I never said that 'all' cats hated water, but any biologist will tell you that a vast
majority of cats aren't fond of water.
My little Gemini cat is quite fascinated by water. He drinks a lot of it - you're joking, right? Our house cat used
to be fond of fine Burgundy wines...
Anyone who doesn't believe that animals have individual personalities has never gotten to know an animal. how do you get to 'know' an animal? I believe that all animals have their unique set of genes and such, but todescribe that as 'personality', that's a bridge too far for me. If you ever come across a cat with an exceptional
taste for clothing, music or other arts and the ability to express this taste, then I'm willing to change my views.
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Nastasja
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #28 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:29 [UT+1] »Sirius, animals can get traumatized because they have memory of certain events. It's called conditioning(Pavlov's dog, ring a bell?).

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sirius1

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #29 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:37 [UT+1] »Quote from Nastasja on 17.04.2007 at 13:29 [UT+1]:
Sirius, animals can get traumatized because they have memory of certain events. It's called conditioning (Pavlov's dog, ring a bell?).

ok that's one take on it ..but as we know their are no absolutes,And in my view memory indicates a level ofintelligence or am I seeing this completely wrong ?
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Soturna
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #30 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Nastasja on 17.04.2007 at 13:20 [UT+1]:
What makes you think I'm offended?
And if you agree with Dr. Dru, then why do you say things like 'my cat with a Sun in Pisces dislikes water'? Unless you're convinced thatwriting silly things is fun-fun-fun ...

I quit. Sad you don't appreciate irony.
Have a nice-lovely-dovey day.

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Nastasja

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #31 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:44 [UT+1] »I don't know whether you're seeing things completely wrong, but why would memory of some sort have to dowith 'intelligence'? It's just a way to survive, recalling instinctively what situations are dangerous and which
aren't. In that way 'intelligent' animals (those with the ability to recognise danger and respond to it accordingly
will last longer and have more chance of procreation and spreading their genes). I guess the question here is:what's the definition of 'intelligence'.
Biologists will say that some primates have a level of intelligence and have apparently measured it (you know,
an orang-oetan is said to have an IQ of 74 or there about).
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a humane treatment of animals and if humans find companionship in their petsthat's a positive thing.
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Alan Knox
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #32 - on: 17.04.2007 at 13:52 [UT+1] »LOL at the emotional temperature in this thread. For what its worth, my Arian Moon is inclined to say thatsince pets were born under the same Sun as we were they have every right to be considered in any study ofastrology. I actually checked this theory for my late Collie dog and sure enough, I found out he died just as theSaturn-Pluto opposition of 2001 lined up right on his Sun
Also, transiting Saturn is currently making a
conjunction to my Shetland Sheepdog's Moon and in the past few weeks he has become ever so glum, not his
usual Leonian self.
Dru, I don't think anyone here has issues with your academic approach to astrology, I certainly appreciate this,it just that sometimes I think you could come across as a little more flexible. There is definitely a lot of space
for astrology to grow as an academic discipline but this also has to account for the fact that astrology is (Ibelieve) at its core a study of psychological inheritance, and at the end of the day their is little academic orscientific about the way in which our ancestors (or our pets ancestors) lived their lives.
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sirius1

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #33 - on: 17.04.2007 at 14:00 [UT+1] »I rest me case me lords thank you..I love Animals and care for their well being ...that's it !

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MeowsAtNightEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #34 - on: 17.04.2007 at 15:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Nastasja on 17.04.2007 at 12:41 [UT+1]:

Animals have no feelings. We can train and condition them, so they do what we want them to do.

well, I must have Super cats then, because mine appear to have feelings. My roommate does not feed them,
yet my one cat waits anxiously for him to come home and goes nuts when his alarm clock goes off in themorning because the cat wants to get in his room so bad to be with him. That's called Affection, and has
nothing to do with instinct or being fed. My roommate doesn't even lavish much attention on the cats. If cats
have no feelings, why do mine absolutely love rock 'n roll music? I don't think that was instinct or
hormones..... they've been subjected to all types of music. Apparently, they have a preference.
If cats have no feelings, why do mine come around me and try to cheer me up when they see me cry?

Why

do they RUN to me if I've bumped my leg on the diningroom table and am hurt? I used to laugh at that, andhad to show my roommate that one. But, it's true. Highly perceptive of them? Yes. But, if they did not havefeelings, they would not have the urge to comfort me when I'm down. They would just perceive I was down
and walk away.
Just because there may not be a way to measure if an animal has feelings, it does not mean they have no
feelings. We just don't know.
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lcmofoMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #35 - on: 17.04.2007 at 16:25 [UT+1] »i'd say there's a case that animals would maybe reflect their charts more than humans, at least in some ways.
without their egos and minds getting in the way, my guess is they may feel more of the planetary influences at
any given time. i don't understand at all how consciousness on the level of a typical human applies at all to
how a being reflects it's chart. what i find so fascinating about astrology is how it sheds light on the parts ofme OTHER than my immediate consciousness.
the debate about how much consciousness animals have and how similar or unsimilar they are to humans is by
no means a new one. personally, i'm just glad i've been able to experience the joy of loving an animal andPosts: 171
Gender:believing in their personalities and power. my cat has held me when i've cried and i don't care how insane
anyone thinks that is. interestingly enough, though i don't know his bday exactly, i know it closely enough toknow that his sun sits on my ASC, his venus on my venus. enough argument for our bond for me.
or how about stretching our imaginations a bit and thinking of the animals we surround ourselves with asextensions of us? if one cannot see them as their own separate (semi)conscious beings, then at least could one
see them as extensions of our own consciousness and astrologically valid as such?
if you follow out the definition of astrology as primarily a subjective experience/study requiring consciousness
and reflection, then i would think that means that you have to extend its realm to all that is within ourconsciousness, no? either our mind IS our world and there is no true objective reality outside it in the way wecommonly think of objective reality, or it is not.

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #36 - on: 17.04.2007 at 18:58 [UT+1] »Hello animal-lovers,
When I was learning about the tarot/ tree of life/qabalah, I remember some philosophical statements about
where animals stood in the scheme of things - in the One consciousness. Below is tarot key #18, The Moon,
corresponding to astrological Pisces. In it we see the evolution of consciousness from the stone (matter), to theplant, to the primitive animal (the crayfish), to the dogs and then to the towers which represent present humanconsciousness. The path beyond the towers represents our continued evolution. (continued)
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IP LoggedBlue Hills

Ex Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #37 - on: 17.04.2007 at 19:09 [UT+1] »(continued from previous post) In tarot key #0, The Fool, which corresponds to astrological Uranus, we see aman/woman (androgenous) with a dog, which is meant to represent our intellect. Just as dogs are man's "bestfriend", our intellect is the best friend of superconsciousness.
Also, we shouldn't forget that most of the Zodiac signs are animals; Aries, the ram, Taurus, the bull, Cancer,
the crab, Leo, the lion, Scorpio the scorpion/snake/eagle, Sag. half horse half man, Capricorn the goat,
Aquarius is a man/woman - but in the tarot it has an Ibis bird in the pic, and Pisces the fishes.
So I think that both points of view are correct - we are all part of the one consciousness, under the same sun,so all have a horoscope, but from the evolutionary point of view, man is the boss.
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #38 - on: 17.04.2007 at 19:15 [UT+1] »This is my late cat Noodle. She was an Aries and ruled my house for 14 years.

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judyanne

Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #39 - on: 17.04.2007 at 19:35 [UT+1] »Quote from Blue Hills on 17.04.2007 at 19:15 [UT+1]:
This is my late cat Noodle. She was an Aries and ruled my house for 14 years.

Sweet! I love how you apparently decorated your house in colors that would showcase Noodle's lovely fur.

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plutorising
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #40 - on: 17.04.2007 at 19:45 [UT+1] »Others in this thread have said just about all of what I would have said had I found my voice ~ and in nicer
tones. I have read in awe.
No one has ever been able to prove whether or not animals think, feel, speculate, reason, get depressed,
daydream...
It is a huge conceit to be certain of the unknowable, and the struggle to convince others one way or another
Posts: 324

must be wearying...it certainly is tiresome to those who are fairly content to allow everyone their point of view.
I came to this realization the *hard way* ~ honest! I spent a good amount of energy in the first half of my life
trying to convince friends, family - heck, even strangers! - of my truth on just about every subject.
The fact is none of us knows. Science is a big boy and can stand up to critics; Astrology can too. (I love the"old whore" analogy.)
I'd rather my p.o.v. always be on the side of the possibility of inclusion than that of exclusion - in almost any
matter. I'd also rather muse that animals have personal attributes than cut into them with sharp instruments
to find the seat of their purrs...
People with a desire to negate Astrology do not need this particular type of in-fight to fuel their battles anyway.
Surely the ages-old stereotypes and regular public flare-ups keep them busy and well-armed enough.
By the way, my chosen graphic/glyph here is of my pet of nearly 17 years. We shared many wonderful aspects I won't bother to disclose them here. I will say: she stayed in my life longer than any lover; she was sweeter,
funnier, more sensitive to my moods, leerier of the cons, more forgiving of my weaknesses, less needy and lesssusceptible to flattery to boot.

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Lindac7

Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #41 - on: 17.04.2007 at 20:13 [UT+1] »This thread certainly has taken a few different directions. I go away for 12 hours, and this is what I come backto.
First, Dru, you said:
Quote:
on a forum which is meant to represent the astrological community on a worldwide scale, and which does present a public face ofastrology, i think is important for dissent to be expressed, within reason, in order to show that we are reflecting critically on our traditionof astrology and trying to find ways to push it forward in responsible ways.

Posts: 2029

You're right that there is nothing wrong with dissention when expressed within reason. I couldn't agree withyou more on that one.

Gender:I also agree with your take on reflecting critically on our tradition of astrology and trying to push it forward in
responsible ways. I, too, would like to see that happen. However, I also have another side of me that can have
fun with astrology without being disrespectful toward it, and . . . well, . . . sometimes I just like to have fun! I
think that's reasonable. More importantly, though, as you said yourself, anyone can visit this site and read ourthreads. That also means that anyone can post whatever they think or feel about astrology, and I would wager
a guess that most people here are not taking it quite as seriously as you, nor are they as well-versed in it asyou. Therefore, we will get people here who have all variances in understanding of astrology sharing theiropinions and perspectives (including simple Sun sign astrology, which by the way, does have some validity all
on its own). Granted, most of us understand there is far more to astrology than that, but unless someone has
heavy chart influences that almost override the power of their Sun, a person's Sun sign to some extent will
always be reflected in their personality.
You said:
Quote:
I do find it amazing that i can post a lot on this forum, and have generally had positive responses, and ONE post can be taken in thisway... that what i have said in other posts, and in giving astrological advice, is completely overlooked and my opinion taken simply to beirrelevant and arrogant. if you look carefully at my other posts you will see that i take care to be sensitive to issues that really requiresensitivity. i am in most of my work a very pastoral thinker. so what is a concern for the health of our discussion is most certainly not
arrogance. i am simply applying my experience and reflection in astrological (as well as other) study and stating my conclusions. in thiscase, conclusions that many have found to be disagreeable.

I couldn't agree with you more on that one, either. I think I understand where you're coming from more thansome people here (if I dare to be so 'arrogant'), and don't see anything wrong with you sharing your opinion.
Though I didn't see the humor in your post, I do understand your intent in posting what you said. I simply
chose to ignore it and not respond, because I didn't have strong feelings about it one way or another. I looked
at it as a point that we simply disagree on, and I don't have a problem with agreeing to disagree. By the way,
it wasn't clear to me that you were being humorous, and I don't recall there being a winking face there, either.
If there was originally one that you later removed, I guess I missed that. I just checked, and there is no winkin your post. This might indicate why some people took offense. I thought you were being serious until yourlater post when you said you were joking. The seriousness with which you take astrology is readily apparent, tothe point where in both instances that I saw where you posted with a more lighthearted approach, there werepeople who took you seriously. We're not used to seeing you be funny, so when you are being funny, a bit
more clear indications of that would be helpful.
My last, and most important point, is that I highly value your contributions here, and it's clear that you are oneof the most sought after people for providing interpretations. I always read every single one of your posts,
because I always learn a lot from you, and there are lots of other people here who I'm sure are also learningfrom you. I don't want to see you pull away or feel inhibited from posting at all; I think all this incident
brought to light is that a bit of clarification was needed, that's all.
Please continue posting!
Linda >'='<
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MeowsAtNightEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #42 - on: 17.04.2007 at 20:56 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 17.04.2007 at 20:13 [UT+1]:
We're not used to seeing you be funny, so when you are being funny, a bit more clear indications of that would be helpful.
My last, and most important point, is that I highly value your contributions here, and it's clear that you are one of the most sought after
people for providing interpretations. I always read every single one of your posts, because I always learn a lot from you, and there arelots of other people here who I'm sure are also learning from you. I don't want to see you pull away or feel inhibited from posting at all; I
think all this incident brought to light is that a bit of clarification was needed, that's all.
Please continue posting!
Linda >'='<In reference to Dru, I agree with Linda. I did not respond to Dru's post in this thread because I disagreed withhis point of view; however Dru has always been helpful to others.
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Soturna

Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #43 - on: 17.04.2007 at 21:07 [UT+1] »To all the animal lovers here, thank you for posting the pics (drools)
I'm a cat freak...

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Amit Adler
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #44 - on: 18.04.2007 at 02:23 [UT+1] »everything has a birth chart and a sign-animals, pets, nations, companys etc.

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IP LoggedBlue Hills

Ex Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #45 - on: 18.04.2007 at 05:01 [UT+1] »I would like to expand what I said earlier about animals having horoscopes. As Dru mentioned, astrology
corresponds to certain psychological factors like thought and emotion. As above, so below - so the Sun in thesky would correlate astrologically to our "sun" which is our central ego, in the Indian system the Heart Chakra,
and in medical astrology with the physical heart. The Moon would be linked with our subconscious, ouremotions and memory, our feminine side, ability to have children and nuture them (breasts) and maybe withthe physical water in our bodies. So it seems logical that if an animal has a heart and is a mammal, there would
be no problem with finding correlations between the Sun and Moon in their horoscopes and thier physical,
mental and emotional life. We can teach dogs, cats, monkeys, dolphins and birds tricks, and to communicate there is no doubt that they have memories and quite evolved brains. They also form partnerships with the
opposite sex, which often last a lifetime, and of course they love us. So there wouldn't be a problem relating
Mercury and Venus to animals. And of course they all have Mars energy. They learn and expand their minds andtravel (Jupiter) and adult mammals will "discipline" their young, teaching them how the world works until they
are old enough to fend for themselves (Saturn).
However, animals lower on the evolutionary scale do not have developed brains, and many do not have a
distinct individuality. For example fish swim in schools and seem to have a "group soul". Insects sacrifice mostof their individuality for the collective group, and single cell animals do not have hearts or brains. So I doubt
whether astrology would work for them.
By the way,I heard on the news recently that Americans are now spending as much on vetinary care as they arefor medical care themselves. Dogs are taking drugs for depression and high blood pressure, and some people
are getting surgery for their pet fish.
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Capricorn Moon
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #46 - on: 18.04.2007 at 06:35 [UT+1] »Our cat is SO Aries! His family was rescued and when we asked the lady what she thought his personality
would be like she said "probably a lap cat"... Yeah right. He has not stopped meowing and stirring up trouble
since he brought him home almost a year ago! He's always bringing me hair ties so that I'll fling them and hecan bring them backPosts: 54
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NikkiEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #47 - on: 18.04.2007 at 06:59 [UT+1] »Oh dear... I figured that when Astrodienst started a forum when the Sun was in Aries that there were gonna be
a LOT of fireworks...
Okay -- has everyone taken a deep breath now?
To Alois -- Thank-you for being aware of how your presence on this forum affects the members. I don't know
about others, but in the past I always felt a tiny shock whenever you posted -- "Yikes -- it's the forum
administrator -- is someone gonna get heck!?" This makes it hard for you to contribute as "just anothermember" on the forum. To a lot of us, your posts do not seem to be "just another opinion" -- they carry a lotof weight because we respect this forum so much. Thanks for being sensitive to that.
To Dru: you had better keep posting on the forum! Don't you quit on us! While I don't always agree withyou, (and while I did not agree with your post on animals either,) I still value your presence here. I guess thefurther one climbs in academia, the more specialized one becomes. That is the point of being a PhD. Your
specialty is Philosophy, and while your comments on this forum can be immensely helpful they are indeed
highly specialized. I think we all recognize this a little better now. You have Pluto in the 3rd right? In a Grand
Earth trine? Well, I am sure you realize that's communicative power -- you really take control of an audience
whenever you speak. Even if a lot of people do not agree with you, your power still holds sway. And Pluto
power and authority happens at levels that are not always conscious for the people involved -- both speaker
and audience... I think people were perhaps reacting to your larger-than-life presence here on the forum asmuch as they were reacting to the words you said... Ah well... blame it on the Uranus opposition!
TommyMac: I wish I could write/communicate like you, man. That was some post.
Forums always have growing pains and hiccups along the way... Group hug, anyone? (Hey -- I'm trying here -I'm a Libra Sun/Mercury in the 11th, remember?)
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Karin Hoffmann
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #48 - on: 18.04.2007 at 08:14 [UT+1] »Hello all,I have also been following this discussion closely and - like Linda - am surprised at the turns it has taken. The
New Moon in Aries energy it seems to have had yesterday (in my timezone) appears to have flown into moregentle spheres. And I'm relieved about that.
Thank you Lindac7, plutorising, Nikki and the others for expressing so well what I felt myself but wasn't quite
able to put into words.

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The only thing I wish to add, even if it might be repetitive, is that the main lesson astrology teaches me is that
we are all different (and I mean all creatures alive and maybe otherwise - I believe that there is a soul ineverything, even if we cannot see or understand it), and in consequence I would wish that we as humankind
could learn to accept and value each other in our differences and appreciate for what they are.
Disagreements can be very constructive in furthering development, as long as they remain dynamic; once thefronts become too hard, I feel that they can turn destructive, and then it would be better to remain apart (atleast for a while) ((which does not mean not posting in the forum!! but maybe on different threads ...) ... You
may notice that disagreements can be quite a challenge to me ... My Gemini Mercury can see truth in lots ofdifferent things, even if they seem incompatible to others.
Ooops - sorry - I seem be going seriously off-topic here, but this is what the discussion in this thread has
evoked in me.
Hence, I join in with Nikki's group hug and hope the great energy in this forum will stay alive!!
All the best (or as you say: that's my 2 cents ((I love that expression!))Karin

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Ariel1

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #49 - on: 18.04.2007 at 12:06 [UT+1] »I want to speak about my cats, but it's two painful.

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ThetisMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #50 - on: 18.04.2007 at 16:58 [UT+1] »Wow...I wasn't expecting all this fuss!
Just a few comments, I wonder what you all think...
1. People mainly study astrology to help themselves (even if it is to help themselves help others) So I castAngus's chart so that I can understand him better, not so he can understand himself. I sometimes cast charts
for my clients and I don't always share these with the client themselves...especially if they have a mind that's
already closed to astrology. But it helps me help them more effectively.
2. Lay people think we're kooks...who cares? IMHO it is only the ego that requires respect, the soul respects
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Gender:itself enough, and doesn't get upset when it is criticised.
3. People were spot on in my opinion when they pointed out that the chart can be considered a mirror of thesoul, not only human psychology. I studied psychology many years ago and quit almost at the end of thecourse - because it was so soulless (except for Jung, Assagioli et al)
4. People were equally spot on in saying one can use the symbolic language of astrology in many different
ways, for many different purposes. A bit like a Swiss Army Knife..
6. The natal chart is a mandala which contains every aspect of being, like we contain the whole universe within
ourselves. Even empty houses yield an energy, and all the archetypes will be worked through sooner or later.
Whenever we reject, we are rejecting a part of ourselves.
5. The people on this forum, including those that don't agree with me (you know who you are)are a greatbunch of people, intelligent, sensitive and articulate, and I am honored to feel included in this community. Long
may we share our thoughts in mutual respect for the benefit of all.
Here is Aengus... Pisces with Cancer moon and Aries rising - last seen halfway up the curtains. I think he is very
cute

Thanks to all those who shared their companions photos with us. I can feel the love!

Big hugs

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Soturna

Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #51 - on: 18.04.2007 at 18:18 [UT+1] »OMG Thetis (head beats on desk)!!
It's TOO cutePosts: 280
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Soturna
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #52 - on: 18.04.2007 at 20:01 [UT+1] »Please stop...

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Lindac7

Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #53 - on: 18.04.2007 at 20:04 [UT+1] »Thetis,Your widdle baby kittie is absolutely adorable! What a cutie!
Linda >'='<

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Alois
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Astrodienst Staff
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #54 - on: 19.04.2007 at 11:21 [UT+1] »I am sorry that I accidentally locked this thread last night; it was not meant to be closed.
But we would appreciate it if new postings would return to the astrology of animals, and not just present joyful
pictures or comments about everyone's pets.
Of course, I am guilty of that, too, but at least I gave the chart data of my dog and some slightly astrologicalreference to its character.

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ThetisMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #55 - on: 19.04.2007 at 15:06 [UT+1] »Thanks to all who shared their views on this thread. I have made up my mind and see I am not the only person
to treat her pets as spiritual beings, and so shall risk the continued mockery of the astrosceptics who lurk on
the web, poring over every line to confirm their negative beliefs about other people's 'weltanschaung' - excuse
the spelling.
Besides I can already detect traces of Angus' Piscean compassion, as he has only drawn blood a couple of times
when playing, and always licks our wounds afterwards. He doesn't seem to like water much though...
I kind of like his chart, to me it shows his bent for philosophy and higher mental processes, though he'll haveto work hard on those 12th house issues.
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TaurusFish
Ex Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #56 - on: 19.04.2007 at 15:43 [UT+1] »Great thread ;)My roommate has two cats: Aries and Taurus. The Aries girl is extremely sociable but also jumpy and terrified
if someone new comes along... an affliction perhaps? When she's used to you though she knows no fear... tothe point where she'll just lie there even if you run down the hall at her as fast as you can. Her ears twitch alittle and that's about it.
The Taurus guy is sooooo laid back... but he doesn't eat nearly as much as you might expect... Aries kitty hogs
all the food ;p She's definitely the dominant party.
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Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #57 - on: 19.04.2007 at 17:21 [UT+1] »I do believe that knowing our pet’s charts can help us understand them better although I wouldn't be doing a
deep psychological analysis on them. {smile} I could not imagine life without four legged companions –thanks to my Moon/Jupiter in 6th house {smile} I also believe that they have souls yet that is probably not
appropriate for this string.
Alois: I deleted the post/picture of my four-legged companion and my apologies for posting picture of him. I
did not have a birth time for him only his birth date and place (hence knowing his Sun/Moon placement inTaurus etc). so didn’t think his chart would be of interest as no full detail with Ascendant etc.

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Mermaid
PS I did enjoy seeing the pics though… {Smile}

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Lindac7
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #58 - on: 19.04.2007 at 18:19 [UT+1] »I got my cat, Minx at the Humane Society and they guesstimated her age as 18 months old, so I don't evenhave an exact birth date for her, but I'm pretty sure she's an Aries. She's now about 3 years old. Minx has
unstoppable energy, and she's always trying to get me to play with her. Sometimes it's annoying (if I'm busy),
but most of the time she's a delight. She does, however, have one bad habit I'm not fond of at all. She likes
to bite, and I mean HARD. Nothing I've done has broken her of this habit, but I have to give her credit for atleast getting better about this. A lot of the time her bites break the skin and make me bleed. I wouldn't mind
if they were just 'love bites', but she apparently doesn't understand the difference, and doesn't understand that
she is HURTING me.
She particularly likes rough, ferocious playing, which I can only attribute to heavy Mars influences, since Aries is
Posts: 2029
Gender:the most ferocious of the fire signs. I've tried a number of things to help her calm down somewhat, and they
do seem to have helped (some). I just wish I could get her to stop biting so much. I suspect that her previous
owner possibly encouraged this extremely high energy and fierce playing, and possibly maybe there was some
sort of abuse involved, but she doesn't cower at all, so I could be wrong about the abuse. She's quite open
and friendly to everyone, and can't wait to get my attention the moment I get home. Her tail is always up andhappy.
Even when on occasion I've needed to give her a thump on the head for behaving badly, she bounces back fromthat very quickly and easily, and is ready to play again, or she stops being so Aries-rebellious, and lies down
somewhere and remains quiet for me. She is far more rebellious than my last two cats who were Pisces andScorpio, which is another reason I think she's an Aries. She hasn't learned to obey me nearly as well, but she islearning (though very slowly). The longer I have her, the more convinced I am that I gave her the right name.
She is certainly a Minx through and through!
It's also quite clear that she loves me (must be that Libra-Aries attraction going on), because in her quieter

moments she loves to be held and pet, and will quietly sit on my lap and even sleep there. She's also quite
affectionate when she's in the mood. She also demands my attention in the morning as soon as she knows I'mup; and demanding attention is an Arian trait, isn't it? She's a Siamese, and I know they like to talk more thanmost cats, and Minx is definitely a talker, too.
My question is, who else here has had an Aries cat, and have you experienced any of these same types of
behaviors? Even if your cat was not an Aries, did you have biting issues with any of your cats, and how did you
address that? Were they always so frisky and energetic, even in old age, or did they eventually mellow out
some?
Linda >'='<
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #59 - on: 19.04.2007 at 18:53 [UT+1] »I have had so much fun reading this animal post with all the different energy it aroused, also I was realy
laughing for the first time on the forum, anything that can do that has to be good. Just as the wonderful joy
our animals give us, as they say mans best friend.
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Alois

Re: Natal charts for animals

Global Moderator« Reply #60 - on: 19.04.2007 at 18:57 [UT+1] »Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor

Quote from mermaid on 19.04.2007 at 17:21 [UT+1]:
Alois: I deleted the post/picture of my four-legged companion and my apologies for posting picture of him.

Mermaid, I feel badly misunderstood. I never suggested anyone should delete images. I just suggested not tocontinue with pet-image-only posts.
Your dog (you did not give a name) looked beautiful. What was its race? I did not know that black German
shepherd dogs existed.
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Angelo Marano

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #61 - on: 19.04.2007 at 19:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Blue Hills on 18.04.2007 at 05:01 [UT+1]:
However, animals lower on the evolutionary scale do not have developed brains, and many do not have a distinct individuality. For
example fish swim in schools and seem to have a "group soul". Insects sacrifice most of their individuality for the collective group, andsingle cell animals do not have hearts or brains. So I doubt whether astrology would work for them.

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Gender:By the way,I heard on the news recently that Americans are now spending as much on vetinary care as they are for medical carethemselves. Dogs are taking drugs for depression and high blood pressure, and some people are getting surgery for their pet fish.

I am not surprised by the interest and the heat generated by this topic, given the emotional investment wehave in our pets. Nor am I surprised about the spending on animal care today. I work for a society for theprevention of cruelty to children, and we are always out-fundraised by the spca's. As an aside, the first case ofchild abuse to be prosecuted here in ny was done so on the basis of animal abuse laws. At the time there wereno laws protecting children and the case was brought under the undeniable assertion, even to the courts, thatchildren are technically of the animal kingdom and thus deserved the same protection as a horse, dog or cat.
I agree with the "group soul" concept, which I think Ouspensky wrote about somewhere. That distinguishes
them from man, with each of us having an individual soul. But it doesn't relegate them to the back seat interms of importance in terms of the evolution of this living planet. All species play an important role in thetransformation of energies and the maintenance of the life or vital body of the planet itself.
I don't see why a chart cannot be drawn for pet. But I also think we go a little too far, are too anthrpomorphic,
and project too much of ourselves in attempting to interpret such a chart, especially in terms of "personality",
which pets undoubtably do have, along with thoughts, emotions and feelings. In fact they sometimes seem tohave a better grip on reality than I do, as they are not fooled by words. Their psyches are extremely specialized- a dog can be thought of as a walking nose, a cat as walking ears. This highly specialized sensory/brain systemcomes at a cost to mind, but keeps them very close to the earth mother, maybe closer than we are.
*****************
Just want to say that Dru and TommyMac are both elgant and precise in their own ways, and I have immensely
enjoyed, and learned from, all the posts I have seen from them.
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plutorising
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #62 - on: 19.04.2007 at 20:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 19.04.2007 at 18:19 [UT+1]:
I got my cat, Minx at the Humane Society and they guesstimated her age as 18 months old, so I don't even have an exact birth date forher, but I'm pretty sure she's an Aries. She's now about 3 years old. Minx has unstoppable energy, and she's always trying to get me toplay with her. Sometimes it's annoying (if I'm busy), but most of the time she's a delight. She does, however, have one bad habit I'm not
fond of at all. She likes to bite, and I mean HARD:::snip:::

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Gosh, Lindaac7, maybe she has Regulus ascending?
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Lindac7

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #63 - on: 19.04.2007 at 23:37 [UT+1] »PlutoRising,I have no idea what you mean since I know nothing about Regulus, but I'll take your word for it!
Linda >'='<

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plutorising
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #64 - on: 19.04.2007 at 23:47 [UT+1] »Hi Lindac7 ~I thought maybe she sees herself as a really grand Lion...
;}Regulus- [Astro*Index]
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Cor Leonis (the heart of the lion). A fixed star, the most "royal" of the four royal stars. It is referred to byPtolemy as "kardias lampros," the bright spot upon the heart. Ptolemy gives it the qualities of Mars and Jupiter.

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Lindac7

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #65 - on: 19.04.2007 at 23:56 [UT+1] »PlutoRising,That makes perfect sense. You may very well be right! Thanks for that perspective.
Now I wish I had her chart so I could check it out. Oh, well.
You have a beautiful cat, by the way. I love looking at it every time I see your posts.
Linda >'='<

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plutorising
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #66 - on: 19.04.2007 at 23:58 [UT+1] »oh oh...
No - Sirius, the Dog Star!
heh hehps - thank you; she was quite beautiful...

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Lindac7

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #67 - on: 20.04.2007 at 00:00 [UT+1] »Funny, PlutoRising!

Linda >'='<

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Re: Natal charts for animals

mermaid
Member« Reply #68 - on: 20.04.2007 at 00:11 [UT+1] »Alois: Perhaps I was being too sensitive a fish and misunderstood {smile} I have been a bit nervous about
posting (as I got slammed somewhat in another string by a poster) and thought it was better to just remove
the post rather than upset anyone else. My four legged companion is a black long haired German Shepherd(bred here in England) and his name is ~Chakhotay Black Wolf~ {Smile}. I said (in the post I deleted) that
Wolf is the Native American Birth totem for the Sun sign of Pisces (hence his name). I believe you are Piscesalso? {smile}
I do have other German Shepherds yet they are rescues and I don’t have their birth/chart details.
Kind regards
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Re: Natal charts for animals

Alois

Global Moderator
Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor« Reply #69 - on: 20.04.2007 at 00:31 [UT+1] »Quote from mermaid on 20.04.2007 at 00:11 [UT+1]:
I believe you are Pisces also?

Yes, my birth date is in my bio on the website. But I have six planets in air signs.

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Re: Natal charts for animals

Mystique
Member« Reply #70 - on: 20.04.2007 at 01:28 [UT+1] »Hi everyone!
I have thoroughly enjoyed all your pictures and animal stories. I respect all your opinions and respectfully want
to offer mine. I believe every living being has a soul....now whether anyone can ever prove or disprove this in alab or anyway else is irrelevant to me at this stage in my evolution because this is my truth and I think truth is
not absolute. My truth might differ from someone else's but that doesn't mean my truth is valid and their's
isn't. We are all here experiencing LIFE on planet Earth, all at different levels.
I am an avid animal lover and in every animal, bird I see and befriend I see and feel a distinct being. I feed thebirds at work and where they will normally scatter when my co-workers get close they actually recognize me as
I walk to my car and they all fly from the surrounding bushes to the little feeding area I have for them to show
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me their gratitude. I know this instinctively/intuitively call it what you may I just know they know who I am.

Gender:Having said this I have to add I am a new forumite and am still trying to keep up with many threads but there
are a couple here I recognize from the other threads who may not share my views here but that is okay.
Namely Dr Dru I think you are very special and wise and very giving of your time so please do not stop guiding
us and stay and have fun!
My cat I rescued from work 9 years ago, vet said he was approx 3 months old so I figure he is either a Taurus
or Gemini. He is very vocal and is a purrrrr machine. I just have to look at him and he starts purring...LOL!
He is very vocal especially when he wants me to play with him. He is my little comedian as well, and like mostof you cat lovers can attest to he is my comforter, knows when to make me laugh so I am leaning towards
Gemini for him. My dog is a shitzu and I adopted him when he was 5 years old, he is now 11 and he is a Pisces.
Very sensitive, very attached to me and if he could become one with me he would.
Hugs to all
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Re: Natal charts for animals

plutorising

Member« Reply #71 - on: 20.04.2007 at 03:56 [UT+1] »Quote from Mystique on 20.04.2007 at 01:28 [UT+1]:
My dog is a shitzu and I adopted him when he was 5 years old, he is now 11 and he is a Pisces. Very sensitive, very attached to me and if
he could become one with me he would.
Hugs to all

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Hi Mystique and all ~So Piscean; so lovely.
"The love you get is equal to the love you give."
So Beatles;}

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Bill Capricorn
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #72 - on: 20.04.2007 at 10:58 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 19.04.2007 at 18:19 [UT+1]:
She likes to bite, and I mean HARD.

Kittens learn from playing with other kittens not to bite too hard. We have a cat from the Humane Society who
bites too hard when playing. He had no mother or siblings at an early age.
When this happens, immediately stop playing with her. The loss of her bestest friend will be enoughpunishment for her. Be consistent.
Erik Erikson talks about the role of play in human beings. That's how children learn. So too with cats.

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ThetisMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #73 - on: 20.04.2007 at 11:46 [UT+1] »Thanks Bill, I shall bear that in mind - you should see the state of my hands!
I had a thought last night as I was half asleep - Natal charts don't work so well for cats as they have a distinct
season for breeding. This means that most cats will have their sun in Pisces, Aries and Taurus and rarely
anywhere else. The other data can still be useful though.
I must say I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread, thanks Alois for keeping it open

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Alan Knox
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #74 - on: 20.04.2007 at 11:58 [UT+1] »I'm sensing an immense amount of Virgo energy in this thread

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Lindac7

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #75 - on: 20.04.2007 at 16:33 [UT+1] »Thanks, Bill, for the advice on biting.
Alan--how astute of you!
Linda >'='<

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Bill Capricorn
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #76 - on: 20.04.2007 at 17:41 [UT+1] »My Complete Guide to Cat Care gives a more complete description
Wendy Christenssen and the Staff of Humane Society of US(c) St Martin's 2002
On Behavior modification
1. Leave the room without saying anything. Often, by removing the audience, you're also removing the
motivation for the behavior.
2. If a cat on your lap does something you don't want him to, say, keading your leg painfully with his claws, get
up passively, letting him drop gently to the floor. Leave the room for a few minutes. This way, you're not tellingyour cat that you don't appreciate this affectionate gesture but are simply interrupting a pattern you don't
want to reinforce.
3. Immediately divert your cat to a more attractive option. If he's scratching the back of the sofa, for example,
toss a small toy across his field of vision. He'll likely give chase and forget about the sofa. But don't make thediversion consist of getting attention from you, as this may reinforce the bad behavior. The diversion should besomething nuetral (not associated with you) but attractive to your cat. A small, hand held laser pointer can bea great diversionary tool-most cats adore chasing that little red dot (never point it directly at his eyes). Keep
one handy in your pocket.
4. Cats are senstive to tone of voice and variations in inflection, so verbal cueing can work if you use it
consistently. Yelling in anger or furtration will only confuse your cat or make him fear and avoid you. Devise aparticular word or sound and use it only when he misbehaves. Select a special cue phrase and method ofdelivery, such as sharply vocalized "Eh, eh, eh." When you see your cat misbehaving, speak the cue phrase
immediately, or use a diversion not clearly associated with you to interrupt the behavior pattern. Whatever you
choose to do, though, be consistent.
An interesting secion is on neotony. "Neotony is the retention into adulthood of juvenile features andbehaviors-sociability, gentleness...
Unlike wild cats, even human raised ones, neotenized domestic cats see humans as companions-honorary catsrather than as enemies, competitors, or prey...
Our domestic cats let us, in writer Fernand Mary's words, "caress the tiger."
In my memory, untrustworthy, there is a surge of cats around June here. I am looking into it.
I think some people look to the moon as indicative of the cat's behavior. To me, the topic of behavior,regression, and so on is linked very closely to the lunar cycles. Our bodies, our cats and dogs...
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lilithEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #77 - on: 20.04.2007 at 17:58 [UT+1] »sorry but this thread is ridiculous!!!
I totally agree with what Dru said at the beginning, it's really unfair to astrology......
you CAN'T put animals on par with people no matter how much you love them
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Bill Capricorn
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #78 - on: 20.04.2007 at 18:48 [UT+1] »Wanted to clarify an answer to a question, but thanks lillith. Cat behavior is off topic.
My plug for two areas of astrological study...
1. Lunar opposites in families.
I want to have data on moon research. I need sun and moon of nuclear family members. Had a few theories
but I have no real data. I can find the data in any sample group. Does anyone have an idea of how I can gather
family sun and moon positions at birth? Maybe a good geneology site? Given just the day I can at least arriveat an approximation.
2. Neptune, by Greene. Chapter by chapter focus. That one got a bit of buzz, but I am interested in the longterm result. Meant to be a non authoritarian level of discussion going chapter by chapter.
These forums are not topical and need to stay on long term, so I hope Switzerland doesn't pull the plug on thisexperiment.
Maybe we need like a non-sense or coffee-break forum, for light areas.
In the long run, survival of the world sense, the topic of astrology has to be considered as serious business andbe respected.
P.S. Anyone familiar with the Zen koan, "Does dog have Buddha Nature"?
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lilithEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #79 - on: 20.04.2007 at 19:40 [UT+1] »No, Bill. I meant the WHOLE thread, my post wasn't a reply to yours. I haven't even read all posts here but the
popularity of this topic surprised me so much that I decided to expressed my, let's say protest against applying
astrology to such trivial matters as pet personality analysis
please don't feel offended

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Bill Capricorn
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #80 - on: 20.04.2007 at 19:45 [UT+1] »I am not offended. (I can see I drew attention to myself, the way some kittens manage to do.) So now I havethe pleasure of speaking directly to you in front of others. Like in a play.
Was looking for East Point but there isn't anything, so far, that looks like serious research. If I do hear of it I
will let you know.
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lilithEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #81 - on: 20.04.2007 at 19:53 [UT+1] »Thanks for trying

isn't East Point (and all those concepts connected with "ancient" astrology more

fascinating than pets ?

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IP LoggedBlue Hills
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #82 - on: 20.04.2007 at 21:35 [UT+1] »It must be obvious that some aspects of human astrology would not work for animals - even highly evolved
ones like cats and dogs. For example, cats and dogs would never have a Saturn return, or a Uranus square thathumans have around age 21 since they don't live that long. Maybe that is why they have evolved as pets because they really need us to help them realize the Saturn or discipline principle. Cats and dogs do have
Jupter returns at 12 years old, so maybe they can relate to that principle and all the inner planets.
Also, makes you wonder... what about progressed charts? In human astrology, a day after birth represents ayear progressions, but in popular belief, for a cat a human year is worth 5 years and for a dog it's worth 7.
Hmm...
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plutorising

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #83 - on: 20.04.2007 at 21:45 [UT+1] »Quote from lilith on 20.04.2007 at 19:40 [UT+1]::::snip:::I decided to expressed my, let's say protest against applying astrology to such trivial matters as pet personality analysis
please don't feel offended

Hi Lilith ~One person's triviality could be another person's path to awareness....
Posts: 324

When you started learning Astrology who did you draw charts for? What questions did they ask you to answer?
Did you find some of their questions silly or trivial? Would you have managed to learn Astrolgy without thosepeople?
Just a thought...
=/
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lilithEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #84 - on: 20.04.2007 at 22:14 [UT+1] »well, one thing is for sure: I DIDN'T DISCUSSED CHARTS WITH MY PETS OR ANY OTHER ANIMALSBack to top
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AloisGlobal Moderator
Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #85 - on: 20.04.2007 at 22:20 [UT+1] »Lilith, astrology does not work because it is discussed. You need not discuss his horoscope with a child for it tobe affected. You don't have to discuss the chart with a person, to make the chart effective for that person. At
the contrary, some things have stronger effects when they remain unconscious.
One way to look at it is that a chart represents the quality of time of a certain moment at a certain place. Thisquality of time is a complex conglomerate of energies, symbols, archetypes etc.
Now objects or people or animals or other things can become attached to a certain time moment and a certain
place, for example by an act like creation or birth. They inherit out of the time-quality-complex that which they
are capable to represent and express. The time-quality-complex is projected onto the object bound to it,

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limited and filtered by the inherent capabilities of the respective object. People inherit, incarnate the timequality as their human birth chart, animals inherit is as their animal birth chart.

Gender:If a meteor would fall down at a certain place at a certain time, it would inherit the chart of this time and place,and express what it can of it in its 'meteorness'.
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lilithEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #86 - on: 20.04.2007 at 22:46 [UT+1] »okay, you'll right Alois, even charts for specific events can be drawn so I'm not objecting to making charts foranimals. what annoys me is presenting them as if they were for humans. a dog is a dog :| (but I'm afraid that
I'm the only person in this forum who thinks like this............
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Alois

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #87 - on: 20.04.2007 at 22:49 [UT+1] »Well, I can see that snakes cannot really understand dogs well.

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lilithEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #88 - on: 20.04.2007 at 22:57 [UT+1] »yes, they are not as intelligent as dogs :|Back to top
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Bill Capricorn

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #89 - on: 21.04.2007 at 01:22 [UT+1] »I came across this in Pursuit of Wisdom...
toleration betrays either indifference to the other or a reaffirmation of implied superiority. What is worse, in
toleration there is always the danger that the error of their ways…might become intolerable; in which case we
can no longer let them be wrong, or even let them be
I think Lilith would appreciate/understand this in light of the thread.

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Mystique
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #90 - on: 21.04.2007 at 01:42 [UT+1] »Hi allThanks Pluto Rising
Kittens learn from playing with other kittens not to bite too hard. We have a cat from the Humane Society who
bites too hard when playing. He had no mother or siblings at an early age.
Bill unfortunately my little one did not play with other kittens and my hands took became attractive toys
still are until I say no and he backs off. Mind you I am partly to blame because I encouraged the rough playwhen he was little
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #91 - on: 21.04.2007 at 09:04 [UT+1] »Quote from Blue Hills on 20.04.2007 at 21:35 [UT+1]:
It must be obvious that some aspects of human astrology would not work for animals - even highly evolved ones like cats and dogs. For
example, cats and dogs would never have a Saturn return, or a Uranus square that humans have around age 21 since they don't live that
long. Maybe that is why they have evolved as pets - because they really need us to help them realize the Saturn or discipline principle.
Cats and dogs do have Jupter returns at 12 years old, so maybe they can relate to that principle and all the inner planets.

Posts: 62

Also, makes you wonder... what about progressed charts? In human astrology, a day after birth represents a year progressions, but in
popular belief, for a cat a human year is worth 5 years and for a dog it's worth 7. Hmm...

My dog on her jupiter return, left the country where she was born, and started a new life in France on the otherside of the world.
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Bill Capricorn
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #92 - on: 21.04.2007 at 09:05 [UT+1] »Tonight, coming home, from a night video taping Terence Knapp, a real British gentleman. I have had thehonor of taping a number of recitals and performances by him over the years. Studied under Laurence Olivier.
Anyway... To paraphrase...
The passage in Kaplan was a new idea to me about the folly of being tolerant. Lilith does not want to tolerate
astrology for pets. The passage says that not tolerating is preferable to tolerating in two ways. One. Not
tolerating is an honest opinion. Not evasive. Two. The passage says not tolerating is preferable to a sense of
disdain, or superiority.
I do care what Lilith makes of this because it was to her and I am curious how she reads it.
Mystique: Moki bit my wife so badly she had to see the doctor. Since then we have been chosen by several
other cats (we live in a remote area surrounded by brush) and these cats drive him off. They protect us. I
manage to feed him though.
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #93 - on: 21.04.2007 at 09:19 [UT+1] »Quote from lilith on 20.04.2007 at 22:57 [UT+1]:
yes, they are not as intelligent as dogs :|Posts: 62

I have lived in a house where in my garden lived many snakes especially the wonderful large python, one inparticular would present itself on my patio at times of great difficulty like a wonderful symbol. I think they havegreat intelligence just on a totally alien , different level to what a human can understand. As with most things
anything that is outside our limited knowledge, we tend to denigrate.

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Bill Capricorn
Ex Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #94 - on: 21.04.2007 at 18:20 [UT+1] »Thomas Carlyle on (non) tolerance "We are here to extinguish the falsehoods and put an end to them, in somewise way!” This is where Lillith is coming from, I think. However, that is just about the extent of an argumentfor not being tolerant. Who is the sole and absolute judge for what astrology is useful for? Some "falsehoods"
turn out to be true.
As far as posts go, what is said is public and can be questioned. In this thread tolerance was a major theme.
Saturn is emerging as being behind this issue. It's important to understand Saturn or the issues it is concernedwith won't go away.
The issue of tolerance, rather than being secondary, rises to the front of any concern about astrology. In one
context, pets. Shift the dynamics, the context is race, religion, etc.
A person who rejects astrology for pets reminds me of those who reject astrology altogether. I try to keep thetwo of them separate, but sometimes I can only see characters on the life stage.

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lilithEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #95 - on: 21.04.2007 at 18:36 [UT+1] »Bill, I can see you're challenging me
and..........

I won't argue with you, I'm too lazy and not enough clever.

Saturn is emerging as being behind this issue.
yeah, he's the ruler of my chart (to make it worse, it's in Scorpio and conjucts Mercury
but I need to make something clear: I'm NOT against animals!!!
as baroo said: animals have great intelligence just on a totally alien , different level to what a human canunderstandand I think we should leave them alone
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Bill Capricorn
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #96 - on: 21.04.2007 at 19:05 [UT+1] »Cool beans

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stillife

Ex Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #97 - on: 21.04.2007 at 20:55 [UT+1] »Quote:A person who rejects astrology for pets reminds me of those who reject astrology altogether. I try to keep the two of them separate, butsometimes I can only see characters on the life stage.

I was thinking along the same lines...specifically, that from my observation, more people believe that their pets
have personalities than accept astrology. I, of course, believe in both. If others don't, that's fine; I've beenmarried to a sceptic for many years. The debate on this thread got me thinking about my younger cat's chart which I don't know for sure; I only know he was born in late May/early June 2005. He's fascinated by water,
moves his water dish around and splashes it all over the floor. He actually hugs it while he's drinking. I
thought, I bet he's got Mars in a water sign and sure enough, he has Mars in Pisces (which would also explain
his somewhat timid approach to the world).
If Saturn is behind this issue, I have a strong Saturnian chart (Saturn rising in Scorpio in the first house).
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Pamela YoungEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #98 - on: 21.04.2007 at 22:59 [UT+1] »Quote from lilith on 20.04.2007 at 17:58 [UT+1]:
sorry but this thread is ridiculous!!!
I totally agree with what Dru said at the beginning, it's really unfair to astrology......
you CAN'T put animals on par with people no matter how much you love them

I've only just read this thread today, and was staggered at what I found. I left it until now because I figured it
would be what it mostly is, people sharing stories about their pets, and cute pictures of same; I figured I'denjoy it and would get to it eventually, but it wasn't a priority. Now I read the above comment, on top of
Nastasja's infamous "Animals have no feelings..." (Yes, infamous; Nastasja, how could you?!) I just can't
believe it!
I know what Dru means when he says it's this kind of thing that gives astrology a bad name, but there's noharm in having some fun once in awhile. And to say that animals have no feelings, or aren't on a par withpeople no matter how much you love them, is just nonsense, to put it politely. I agree with the point
someone made (Blue Hills?) that obviously some aspects of astrology won't work with cats, e.g., Saturn
returns, but they sure do have personalities, and they sure do have feelings. And if one dies hit by a car orwhatever, you can bet your booties there was a nasty transit and/or progression to their natal chart, even if we
don't know what that chart is.
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plutorising

Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #99 - on: 21.04.2007 at 23:01 [UT+1] »[quote author=stillife link=1176756616/80#97 date=1177185337] Quote:

If Saturn is behind this issue, I have a strong Saturnian chart (Saturn rising in Scorpio in the first house).

Saturn is my middle name lately...As regards my being in this thread, perhaps this partly explains:

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my kitty-house ruler, oh, I mean my 6th-house ruler is Saturn, in 2nd conjunct Moon - but "well aspected", asthey say - transiting is 20 degrees from...return:::sigh:::

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plutorising
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #100 - on: 21.04.2007 at 23:07 [UT+1] »Quote from baroo on 21.04.2007 at 09:04 [UT+1]:
My dog on her jupiter return, left the country where she was born, and started a new life in France on the other side of the world.

...where she consorted with painters and dancers and poodles of the night...until her Saturn return (and that,
opposed by Neptune)...
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Mystique

Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #101 - on: 21.04.2007 at 23:47 [UT+1] »Quote from Bill Capricorn on 21.04.2007 at 09:05 [UT+1]:
Mystique: Moki bit my wife so badly she had to see the doctor. Since then we have been chosen by several other cats (we live in a remotearea surrounded by brush) and these cats drive him off. They protect us. I manage to feed him though.

Oh so Moki is now a wildcat?
Its true they do choose you hey? I always had dogs in my family till my Kitty, I rescued him to give him
nourishment and get his shots at the vet and then find him a loving home but he had other plans for me
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Gender:I wonder have any of you used name asteroids of your animal friends in your chart? Example I would think if
his/her name lands in your 10th house guess who rules the nest?
Hugs to all

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Re: Natal charts for animals

Astro Forum« Reply #102 - on: 22.04.2007 at 00:17 [UT+1] »Administrator[moderation note] An unnecessarily angry posting has been deleted, and in consequence a reply, which by itself
was OK but made no sense anymore after the deleting.
Please, keep reasonable. And those who do not want to discuss pet charts, simply stay away from this thread,please, instead of posting destructive messages. Such acts will not be tolerated, in any thread.

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Bill Capricorn

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #103 - on: 22.04.2007 at 00:21 [UT+1] »No, not wild. He spends most of his time with the neighbor and shows up for when we feed him.
Thetis "I was wondering how valid people thought the information would be regarding an animal instead of theusual human subject."
The information should be valid for both in order to describe reality.
« Last Edit: 22.04.2007 at 14:39 [UT+1] by u3540551 »Back to top

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Ariel1
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #104 - on: 22.04.2007 at 11:35 [UT+1] »Dominique (Domi) was a Taurus cat.
Marmalade was a Scorpio with a Cancer Ascendant and Moon in Leo.

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #105 - on: 22.04.2007 at 15:54 [UT+1] »Quote from plutorising on 21.04.2007 at 23:07 [UT+1]:
Quote from baroo on 21.04.2007 at 09:04 [UT+1]:
My dog on her jupiter return, left the country where she was born, and started a new life in France on the other side of theworld.

Posts: 62...where she consorted with painters and dancers and poodles of the night...until her Saturn return (and that, opposed by Neptune)...

Spot on , she is definately consorting with painters, too arithitic for dancing, and dislikes other dogs, though
her bark has slight french accent. Would make the guiness book if she reaches her Sat return.
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Kathleen Rose
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #106 - on: 25.04.2007 at 17:32 [UT+1] »MemberInteresting thread...I am a cat lover and 10 years ago I allowed my cat, Miss Punkin Puss, to have a litter ofkittens before I had her spayed. She had 5 beautiful babies on 8/20/97 over a 2 1/2 hour period. Talk about aroyal family!
I wrote down the minute of birth for each as they arrived and did charts for all 5. 4 of them had Aries moons,one had Pisces. Needless to say, he had the most placid temperament. It was interesting to see the shift inpersonality based on the degree on the Ascendant/Midheaven and the aspects made to various planets. The one
with the Sun exactly on the Midheaven was the most robust, the one with the Ascendant square the Sun had
health issues (which she got over eventually with my vets help), etc. The two boys were born first, then the

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Gender:three girls.
It was also intriguing to look at how their charts interacted with mine and the subsequent impressions I got ofthem. The one with Asc conjunct my Saturn appeared to be more of a loner than the rest and very reserved.
The one with Ascendant square my Pluto (which I kept and still have), was the most demanding andirresistable.
It was a very interesting study and I was grateful for the rare opportunity I had to do it. Yes, astrology applies
to animals, too!

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ThetisMember

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #107 - on: 26.04.2007 at 12:00 [UT+1] »Thanks, Bill - I think I have enjoyed a reasonable cross-section of astrological opinion on this thread by now.
I understand where the sceptics are coming from - I sometimes have the same reaction when I see another'Aromatherapy bubble bath' containing a minute quantity of plant matter and contemplate the current crosssection of public opinion regarding my chosen profession! Of course astrology can change people's lives and canhelp heal great wounds (as can aromatherapy...I would have, literally, died from MRSA after childbirth if it
wasn't for the powers of the Thyme plant -ruled by Mars, incidentally and one of the most potent anti-bacterial
warriors- but I digress...) Of course it should garner more respect in society's eyes and be reintegrated into thecanon of essential educational material, but unfortunately it might take some time to dismantle the empiricalapproach to knowledge which became ubiquitous afetr the Industrial Revolution. We can all see what has
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Gender:happened to Prince Charles' reputation because he takes advantage of his privileged position to promote hisrather open-minded views...the 'world' - as synthesised by the opinion makers who control the media - doesn't
seem ready to catch up yet, so I have to repeat myself:
Who cares what they think? Do they care what we think?
I am sure they will eventually develop the power of independent, rational judgement as part of the inevitableevolution of humanity and of the earth. There are more pressing problems to convince them of tackling: forexample the need for them to get out of their cars and walk... or else we might well be eating our pets, notcasting their charts.
Just a thought« Last Edit: 27.04.2007 at 10:53 [UT+1] by Thetis »Back to top

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Liisa
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #108 - on: 26.04.2007 at 12:53 [UT+1] »Interesting thread!! In my life I've noticed that many of my friends who are interested in astrology also lovecats! Me too! I've had many cats in my life, some of them have just stepped into my life and I've "adopted"
them. Right now I have two cats, but I don't know their birthdays, not even how old they are.
But once I had a cat who was Leo, moon in sag. Interestingly, his fur was red in colour. At that time I liked to

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wear Ralph Lauren's "Safari" and as I hugged him all the time he used to smell of it too. My mum always
laughed that I have a cat who's a Leo and smells of Safari!

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ViktorEx Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #109 - on: 25.05.2007 at 22:13 [UT+1] »Some days ago I returned to "Civilization in Transition" of the Collected Works of Jung. Reading "Apsychological view of conscience" I got a bit amused and agitated, and remembered this thread, as I cameacross a passage I think ought to be quoted (par. 842):"Even domestic animals, to whom we erroneously deny a conscience, have complexes and moral reactions."
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Mystique
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #110 - on: 26.05.2007 at 02:46 [UT+1] »Thank you for sharing Viktor

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #111 - on: 26.05.2007 at 07:31 [UT+1] »Dog spelt backwards is God, In my dog I find so much to learn, especially unconditional love.

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #112 - on: 08.06.2007 at 17:10 [UT+1] »Thankyou for this thread! It brings our humane attention to a larger view of LIFE ~ ' and the very rocks(Earth) shall speak ' ~ Anyone ever raise a raccoon? I did. Let me tell you, Romi (back in the wild now) had
more intelligence than any domestic animal I ever met.
She listened, obeyed, was sensitive to my expensive, precious objects when she got up on the bay windowsill tolook at the world go by, and responded to my telepathic call when she ran off and got badly bitten at fourmonths old. She listened to me as if I was her mother. Is that NOT intelligence?
How can anything in the universe be separable from universal energies? - We humans are ALL learners, trying
to anal*eyes energies we did not create, in order to determine (and control) their individual effects (uponourselves (primarily). None of us can claim expert*tease in this regard. Our tools are faulty to begin with.
Alois' perspective states it best for me:

Quote from Alois on 20.04.2007 at 22:20 [UT+1]:
Lilith, astrology does not work because it is discussed. You need not discuss his horoscope with a child for it to be affected. You don't haveto discuss the chart with a person, to make the chart effective for that person. At the contrary, some things have stronger effects when
they remain unconscious.
One way to look at it is that a chart represents the quality of time of a certain moment at a certain place. This quality of time is acomplex conglomerate of energies, symbols, archetypes etc.
Now objects or people or animals or other things can become attached to a certain time moment and a certain place, for example by an
act like creation or birth. They inherit out of the time-quality-complex that which they are capable to represent and express. The timequality-complex is projected onto the object bound to it, limited and filtered by the inherent capabilities of the respective object. People
inherit, incarnate the time quality as their human birth chart, animals inherit is as their animal birth chart.
If a meteor would fall down at a certain place at a certain time, it would inherit the chart of this time and place, and express what it canof it in its 'meteorness'.

I have three baby kittens born between midnight and 3:00 a.m. May 4, 2007. I will cast a chart for them towatch this for myself.
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Jupiter's Daughter

Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #113 - on: 09.06.2007 at 02:42 [UT+1] »I skipped to the last couple pages of this thread and I'm shocked that someone that believes in astrology would
deny companion anmials their soul (and their charts!)
My furry children are all foundlings (7 total, 4 still living) and each of them has a very distinct personality with
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differing tastes, desires, needs, and modes of getting those needs met - I mentioned my 3 dogs early in thethread. They are each motivated by different things and respond to different kinds of treatment. All I can say
is that knowing their chart would have saved me a LOT of headaches in developing a relationship with them andtraining them. Thank heavens for animal communicators - a few sessions of "family therapy" has worked
wonders in getting the kinks out of my pack!
And yes, they have feelings and yes, they have much longer memories than they are given credit for.

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Gem Rising
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #114 - on: 10.06.2007 at 00:52 [UT+1] »While I am still a novice in the astrological realm, I'm an experienced breeder of show dogs. I carefully note
exact birth times for every puppy as it's whelped and given its ribbon identification collar, and take the natal
chart information into account when evaluating puppies for placements in homes and for showing. There's a

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definite correlation between successful show animals and the presence of planets in the 10th house/conjunctthe MC-- the "noticeability factor"/fame component at work. The sign on the ASC and planets in the first housealso are indicators of a dog's public persona. None of this can overcome poor structure or other issues, but it
can certainly explain why sometimes a great example of a particular breed doesn't win dog shows as it should,
and a lesser animal has great presence and wins despite flaws. I find that the rising signs are great keys totemperament, as well.
Interesting that this topic should come up, as I'm currently mulling the possible application of synastry to help
make breeding decisions between choices of equally excellent stud dogs! The difficulty there arises in nothaving birth times for most of the dogs considered, although accurate birthdays are readily available. I can see
how this must seem like sheer foolishness to some, but, for those of us who are passionate dog breeders-- orothers involved in animal husbandry-- it's a serious attempt to improve our efforts and results. Dog
breeder/astrologers-- a fairly quirky niche-- but I suspect there are others out there!

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Jupiter's Daughter

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #115 - on: 10.06.2007 at 17:36 [UT+1] »Gem Rising You can get quite a bit of synastry just from planetary aspects between charts. though synastry shows
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relationships and I dont know how valuable that would be for a "One Night Stand". but in theory, if they havegood interactions between planets, they should get along.
One thing you MIGHT be able to get from breeding that is generally unavaialble is a conception chart, if thedogs are supervised - that would be interesting to experiement with.

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Gem Rising
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #116 - on: 10.06.2007 at 19:36 [UT+1] »Thanks so much for your thoughts, Jupiter's Daughter! I'd be looking at synastry charts for a harmonious
blending of the pair, overall fertility, and especially for health, temperament, and appearance of offspring, if I'mable to discern it.

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The dogs are always supervised, and very often, we're dealing with a shipped semen, artificial insemination
situation, so timing for insemination would be easy to record (conception obviously takes place later).
didn't I think of that?! Thanks a bunch! That should add an interesting component to work with!

Why

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chrisnoeticus

Ex Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #117 - on: 10.06.2007 at 21:00 [UT+1] »I myself had a Siamese cat for about 23 years. His name was Simon, a very common name for cats in America,
I believe. All I know was that he was a Scorpio cat and the general vibe I felt from him was indeed Scorpio...heeven spoke (meowed) in the same octave range as many human Scorpios I have met.
I often cry when I reminisce about Simon (I am crying right now). During the course of his life he learned manythings such as how to open doors, join in on family arguments during my teen years...he even seemed to havea similar emotional intensity and anger as the rest of us during those arguments and would sometimes swing
his paw at us to tell us to stop arguing while he himself would meow loudly, he would stroke my face to wakeme up and feed him and pull the covers back on our beds to get under and sleep...to name a few.
During his life he must have endured tremendous pain, as evidenced in his later years when he would often
howl in agony.
There were some paranormal experiences I had with Simon in his later years. One night, after I had heard thata friend of mine, Dave, had committed suicide a few months previously, I sat on the sofa lamenting andreminiscing with Simon. Suddenly I felt a cool chill pass through the room and said out loud, "Dave, if that's
you then please give me a sign". Simon went to the edge of the sofa and began pawing at the air above him,
then meowed as if greeting someone. I sat mesmerized and could only feel as if Simon saw something that I
didn't.
Before he died, I came to visit my old home during summer break from grad school. As it was hot, I took acool shower and lay down. Simon jumped up on my abdomen and I suddenly felt a tremendous outpouring oflove and empathy for all the experiences I shared with Simon over those many years. I began to cry. Simon
began to lick my heart and did so for about 20 minutes. In all those years, especially his last years, I had neverseen him have enough energy or interest to do this.
I have read in some esoteric literature that even animals have a spiritual evolution, that in fact, many of them
are destined to become greatly evolved spiritual beings with tremendous empathy and compassion.
One book I have read talks about Leonine, bipedal catlike beings from Sirius B who are already highly
advanced. I can only imagine that perhaps, since time is simultaneous, Simon is there as a future incarnation, ahighly evolved soul...smiling.
Christopher
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Lindac7
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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #118 - on: 10.06.2007 at 22:36 [UT+1] »Christopher,
I have had similar experiences with my cats. My current cat Minx (a Siamese) is still somewhat new, so thebond with her is new. However, my last two cats, Princess and Willie both had a very strong bond with me.
Princess was a Scorpio, and Willie was a Pisces. Princess was Himalayan (half Siamese, half Persian), and Willie
was Siamese. I've had dreams about both of them separately in the last few months, and know they are bothvery happy where they are.
When they were with me, it was very obvious that they could sense my mood, and if I was unhappy or down
about something, they would come to me and offer comfort. They were great friends to me.
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Gender:I've also had bouts with spirits in my home, and each time I've driven them away. On one such occasion, I
knew there was a spirit in the room, and this one was more powerful and more menacing than all the previous
ones I had encountered. It was so powerful, I was afraid to address it directly and command it to leave. I
feared that acknowledging its presence would make it stronger somehow, which is exactly what I didn't want.
At first I just hoped it would go away on its own. It didn't.
My cats helped me with this. Princess and Willie both could clearly see the spirit, and they both reacted to it. I
knew by their body language exactly where the spirit was in the room, because they exhibited all the classic
behaviors of an animal toward a threatening enemy, but backing away out of fear and keeping a safe distance.
I could not see anything, though I have at times been able to see edges of spirits as they moved around me.
My cats verified to me that there was indeed a spirit present, it was indeed as powerful and menacing as I had
sensed, and they let me know exactly where the spirit was in the room (my living room). This only added to
my fear and made it more difficult for me to get up the courage to address it and command it to leave, but I
knew I had to do it. I had never been so frightened before by any of the previous spirits, and really didn't
understand why this one in particular was making me feel so threatened.
I knew I had to force myself to push past my fear and just do it anyway, and I finally did. The first time, myvoice was shaking and not as firm and menacing as it needed to be. I had to repeat the command 3 times
before I finally felt the spirit leaving the room, and each time my voice got stronger and more sure. I had
never had to work so hard to get a spirit to leave, but it finally did.
I was thankful for my cats, because I knew where to look to address the spirit directly and not back down.
After that, everything was fine.
Linda >'='<

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Jupiter's Daughter

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Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #119 - on: 11.06.2007 at 01:01 [UT+1] »Cool Story, Linda!

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Lindac7
Member

Re: Natal charts for animals« Reply #120 - on: 11.06.2007 at 02:51 [UT+1] »Thanks, Jupiter's Daughter.
I came back to add one piece to my story. I have no idea if my current cat Minx has the same ability to sense a
spirit present, and frankly, I hope the occasion never erupts to test it. However, to the best of my knowledge (Idon't know her birthday), I think she's an Aries. Due to that, I'm guessing she's probably not quite as sensitive
to spirits as my previous Scorpio and Pisces cats, though I could be wrong about that.
Linda >'='<

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