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Neptune: illusion and faith (Read 1882 times)

Archer7
Ex Member

Neptune: illusion and faith« on: 02.05.2010 at 11:09 [UT+1] »Hello forum members,
I have noticed in many posts people mentioning being deluded or confused by Neptune transits. Yes, this
aspect of Neptune is undeniable. But so is being able to go into the essence of our lives and gain a deeper
understanding regarding whatever Neptune touches in our lives.
The delusion aspect of Neptune to me is inevitable, like I said, but I think of Neptune, more so than even
Jupiter, as being the planet that can mirror where our faith really deepens and brings us a kind of trust in theunknown in ourselves and life. For instance, I have it in the eleventh house, and on the delusion side, I often
made friendships where I couldn't really see the motives of the people in my life, nor understand what myproper boundaries were with them (so I too was not always the er...'good' friend).
Yet it is also where I have often put my faith in that there is a higher intelligence keeping me connected withpeople who matter in my life, and it has done so for almost two decades, so the true friends I did make arekind of like my paradise on earth. Not without effort, patience, loyalty and learning proper boundaries, but that
Neptune there just seems to be the true source of why I'd even bother in the first place.
But question is how do we go from delusion to that faith that I'm mentioning? In my case it is always thatexperience and time will show me what I can't yet see, or rather, what I've always seen in my heart and waited
to see with my eyes. Maybe Neptune is that inner sight in some ways, paradoxically the blind spot we have, andthe inner vision or wisdom at one and the same time.
Neptune blinds, but why? Because Neptune somehow calls us beyond the limits of our lives in the here and now
through our imaginations and unexpressed potentials, and marrying imagination with daily life is not easy.
We're not automatically born with that ability, we seem to have to work on it.
Does anyone want to further explore what Neptune can mean for them, how to go from delusion to faith, whichof course is always an aspiration and not necessarily an absolute achievement? If you consider your chart for
instance, and where Neptune is, is this where you find your faith strengthening over experience and time, as
well as the challenges you've had in knowing how to realise this faith in that area of your lives?
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visions

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #1 - on: 02.05.2010 at 11:28 [UT+1] »whatever the aspect I receive, you may be totally live in illusion or sinking from delusion, at least you areescapin from the harshness/triteness and boring side of reality(G) !
i could argue a lot about faith and other metaphysic subject but we don't need to go far when you know thatdreaming allows you to be out of time, and break all limits reality want to lay down on you.
i am feeling so much clarity right now thanks to good aspect I receive in my progressed chat and sr chart. I
must acknowledged that i have walked the most of my life with bad clouds in my own head, i have like to denyreality to say that the reality i set in my head is far more appealing than what i see outside.......................
A writer called Roger martin du gard say that "we have to destroy everything and rebuild everything properly"!
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IP Logged~drop~Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #2 - on: 02.05.2010 at 12:12 [UT+1] »I have Neptune on the ascendant and faith is one of my earliest memories. I think I can relate to how you put
it; "a kind of trust in the unknown". It's still there, although sometimes overshadowed lately.
It does have a Neptunian feel to me too, but in my case I'm not sure how much I can differentiate between
Jupiter and Neptune. They're so closely intertwined, in a tight square, with Neptune in Sagittarius and Jupiter in
Pisces. I think it's a combination of the two.
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banditEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #3 - on: 02.05.2010 at 14:32 [UT+1] »i have also noticed the bad publicity neptune gets and have tried to explain the faults in this, but people are set
upon a reality that excludes neptunes scope and depth.
neptunes energies are healing, one of the only methods of including another in personal space and obtaining atrue connection. when dealing with other living things, it is working through neptune that gives the highest
care and ultimately the best results.
problems arises when political aims are required to be met, standards that are set apart from "what is", to"what should be". uranus and its clever ideals pertaining to the "whole" and the most effective methods ofreaching these goals, but while trying to find the best methods of procedure and eventual logistics, the very
thing we are dealing with is cut out of the dialogue and therefor left to defend for itself.
slipping the minds frame into neptune first and then engaging uranus for ideas to follow through is the only
way forward if a lasting "fix" is to be acquired.
illusions and deception are based upon understandings. an example is you must pay your rent, your boss isgiving you uphill about how much more you have to achieve and the baby is at home crying. neptune is the
only energy that can see the reality, but uranus is saying first things first and all will be alright. in the end in
this senario, the rent is paid, the boss is happy and another human being is damaged enough to become yourreplacement in keeping the machine going.
think about it, this is life and it is we that are fooling ourselves by saying neptune is deceiving us. blame uranus
for confusing your real mission or neptune in trying to set things right? its a matter of true sight.
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Steve3
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #4 - on: 02.05.2010 at 14:33 [UT+1] »Neptune is the most heavily aspected planet on my chart. I allow myself to embrace the impossible even if
there is just a hint of it. I have found 'the impossible' morphing into 'the real' many times in my life. Even now
I have a transit, IqD, and the Astrodienst horoscope interpretation is titled 'It Can be Real'.
Is that a Neptunian invitation to Icarus or what? After all.... he did fall into the sea.
(note to self: need better wax!)

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Pearl Diver

Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #5 - on: 02.05.2010 at 14:39 [UT+1] »Yeah, I like to think that Neptune represents that which is possible once you shake off the delusion that certain
things are impossible fantasy!!!

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Lia11
Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #6 - on: 02.05.2010 at 15:19 [UT+1] »anything is possible! Astrology is an energy, with positive and negative manifestations.
Let's use it (wisely) instead of allowing it to use us.
I have natal I o D. Understanding this has helped me to keep the faith rather than the illusion.

Posts: 195

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MercurySextileUranus Re: Neptune: illusion and faith

Ex Member« Reply #7 - on: 02.05.2010 at 16:57 [UT+1] »I have Mercury Q Neptune. Neptune in 12th which is both a blessing & a curse. A blessing because I canthings/events from my past vididly, it's a curse, because I cann't quite figure out why the heck I'm having allthese flashbacks. Like what is Neptune trying to tell me?
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IP Loggeddirect Jupitarian
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #8 - on: 02.05.2010 at 17:32 [UT+1] »Sometimes we need to be temporarily blinded in order to grow more spiritually.
Case in point are closer relationships and how so many tend to approach romantic relationships and theirprospective partners with rose colored glasses, but end up learning that there preconceptions about the person
and the relationship were illusionary and false. This often leads to difficult and painful break up, etc.
Believe it or not, but from a Soul level, lot's of times it's set up like that, otherwise if we had fully clear site
into the person and the future of the relationship, we probably wouldn't it enter it to begin with.

And if we didn't do that, we might not balance the karma or learn the certain lesson we needed to learn, or beof help to that person in their awakening, which ultimately is very spiritually helpful and desirable from ourSouls perspective.
Neptune is a pretty fast vibratory Consciousness state. I link it to a color frequency of a lighter but brightblue violet-pinkish shade. It has lots of blue primarily, and a bit of rose pink and white light in it.
It is rather Yin polarized (though has more Yang balance than her sisters Moon and Venus).
Because it is a faster vibratory and more pure love attuned energy, it's harder for more humans to attune toand use it's energy "as is" in the more pure, Archetypal sense.
So selfishness and attunging too much to the physical-material energies, can distort the individuals use of thisenergy. Then does Neptune become more associated with the deceiver, charlatan, heavy self deception, etc.
However, many mistakenly think that Neptune represents the most expanded consciousness state andvibratory levels in our system.
This is not true, for royal purple Jupiter is slightly more expanded in nature and more Golden Light Sun issignificantly more expanded in nature than even Neptune. Neptune is the real beginning of perceiving andfeeling the importance of "Oneness", yet because she is too Yin, it's often left at the perceptual level more andthere isn't enough active service to help uplift the collective and to foster that state and awareness of Oneness.

This is why the last Sign--the stage that represents the death of the personality so that the Soul can be fully
born, Pisces, is ruled by both Neptune and Jupiter. Jupiter gives Pisces the more Yang initiative and directed
strength of will to actually affect real positive, and Oneness oriented change in the world.
Neptune is more the passive Mystic, in and of herself. In this, Neptune differs from it's Sign Pisces.
Because Neptune is a rather Yin and very "right brain" kind of energy and consciousness symbol, if she is verystrong in an individuals chart, a person would benefit and to some extent needs a good balance of Mercury, Air,
Aries (of the head!, the mental, the reasoning), and/or Earth to help ground and balance her so that she can
express in the best, holistically balanced way. She needs a definite left brain balance.
But yes, Neptune does have a lot to do with faith, dreams/inspirations, mystery, psychic sensitivity/perception,and the deeper perception and appreciation of beauty and connectedness.
She is very beautiful and i for one thank Source that we have such a consciousness state/vibratory level as
what she symbolizes.
Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't really "get" her and her deeper meaning. It is because they don't yet
more purely attune to that state as is, and there being a mis-match of vibratory levels, there is a mis-match ornon clear perception of it. And when it comes to a slower vibratory energy interacting with a faster vibratory
energy than itself, the former often has to denigrate, belittle, or marginalize the latter to try to make self feelbetter about itself (it's not rational, but an ego defense mechanism).
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Serene Sphinx

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #9 - on: 02.05.2010 at 18:17 [UT+1] »Nicely explained, DJ.

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butterflye
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #10 - on: 02.05.2010 at 18:18 [UT+1] »Neptune is the visionary, the dreamer, the mystic. There are no limits to the scope, depth, and breadth of his
visions, so the imagination is left to explore freely. I wonder sometimes... are illusions really that, or is it thatthey just don't fit within the confines of *this* reality? Who's to say that there aren't worlds and dimensions
where they are actualized? Do we know without a doubt that some schizophrenics don't actually tap in to afrequency that most of us can't sense? How much do we really know about "mental illness", or is it just too
easy to label, medicate, and move them along in the process?
"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."~Obi-Wan, Episode VI- Return of the Jedi
With Neptune, the points of view are limitless. The unbound imagination can find cause to bless or to curse, tolove or to fear. We see what we want to see, but the choice is taken from an array of options that exist in therealm of potentiality.
Saturnian reality exists as a box within an open space. Saturn and Neptune are both "real", but in a very
different sense. We could say that Neptune is more real, because ultimate reality has no limits.
If Neptune encompasses every color, every shade, every hue, then Saturn is limited to just the prime colors.
Which is more true? How can those who cannot see beyond the scope of Saturn understand the realm of
Neptune? Yet in a Saturn-dominated third dimensional world we live in, we must find a way to translate thelanguage of Neptune into that of earthy Saturn, without losing the awareness of its meaning.
Someone recently told me, "there's the world we live in and the world we want to live in." The here and now
has practical limits, and "relative" reality is shaped by those limits. There's a reason and purpose for this. But
what I often see people do is invalidate Neptune because they either don't understand it, or don't know how toincorporate its nature into their practical, everyday experience here on Earth. So the solution they choose is todisregard, avoid, or devalue it.
Yet the qualities of Neptune are a vital aspect of our experience. We are not complete without them. If wedeny or avoid these energies they will find a way to express themselves anyway, most likely in a way that is not
to our preference.
How does the mystic and the dreamer share his voice and vision in the world? Here's one such example.
Imagine~John Lennon
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
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IP LoggedSerene Sphinx

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #11 - on: 02.05.2010 at 18:29 [UT+1] »Butterflye, you said -With Neptune, the points of view are limitless. The unbound imagination can find cause to bless or to curse, tolove or to fear. We see what we want to see, but the choice is taken from an array of options that exist in therealm of potentiality.
Apparently it's impossible to visualise something in our imagination which does not actually exist somewhere ina parallel reality that will manifest if sufficient emotional energy is poured into it.
So every Neptunian act of dreaming (fearful, or happily anticipating) is tugging our aura towards a potentialthat we are creating for ourselves.
We definitely need a bit of Saturnian discipline to keep an eye on what we're creating, for us and for the world.

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Skye Dam
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #12 - on: 02.05.2010 at 19:05 [UT+1] »Neptune dissolves earthly boundaries. In this state of being completely open, one is able to transcend physicallimitations and connect with "something that is greater than ourselves." This is not faith, but rather faith is the
byproduct where we classify certain experiences as "spiritual."
Being attuned to Neptune, allows us to understand the concept of osmosis. Barriers are broken down, and amerging of entities are possible. When you break into different dimensions, there is a type of pressure that isexerted when entering. A sound is also emitted. It reverberates.... I-Ching, I -Ching I-Ching

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butterflye

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #13 - on: 02.05.2010 at 22:32 [UT+1] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 02.05.2010 at 17:32 [UT+1]:[highlight[Sometimes we need to be temporarily blinded in order to grow more spiritually. [/highlight]
Case in point are closer relationships and how so many tend to approach romantic relationships and their prospective partners with rosecolored glasses, but end up learning that there preconceptions about the person and the relationship were illusionary and false. This often
leads to difficult and painful break up, etc.
Believe it or not, but from a Soul level, lot's of times it's set up like that, otherwise if we had fully clear site into the person and thefuture of the relationship, we probably wouldn't it enter it to begin with.

And if we didn't do that, we might not balance the karma or learn the certain lesson we needed to learn, or be of help to that person in
their awakening, which ultimately is very spiritually helpful and desirable from our Souls perspective.

This is a great observation, DJ. I see the truth of it. It's helpful to keep this in mind when tempted to beatourselves up about the stupid delusional things we do...
Quote:
But yes, Neptune does have a lot to do with faith, dreams/inspirations, mystery, psychic sensitivity/perception, and the deeper perception
and appreciation of beauty and connectedness.
She is very beautiful and i for one thank Source that we have such a consciousness state/vibratory level as what she symbolizes.
Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't really "get" her and her deeper meaning. It is because they don't yet more purely attune to thatstate as is, and there being a mis-match of vibratory levels, there is a mis-match or non clear perception of it. And when it comesto a slower vibratory energy interacting with a faster vibratory energy than itself, the former
often has to denigrate, belittle, or marginalize the latter to try to make self feel better about
itself (it's not rational, but an ego defense mechanism).

I agree she/he is very beautiful. The part I highlighted is so true.
Quote from Skye Dam on 02.05.2010 at 19:05 [UT+1]:
Neptune dissolves earthly boundaries. In this state of being completely open, one is able to transcend physical limitations and connect with"something that is greater than ourselves." This is not faith, but rather faith is the byproduct where we classify certain experiences as"spiritual."

What I find challenging is finding a balance between the Neptunian awareness and openness, and the realities ofthis world. How to remain open... here on earth? Most people don't take too well to this state of openness. It
is not typically well received.
(GnI)
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butterflye
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #14 - on: 02.05.2010 at 23:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Archer7 on 02.05.2010 at 11:09 [UT+1]:
If you consider your chart for instance, and where Neptune is, is this where you find your faith strengthening over experience and time, as
well as the challenges you've had in knowing how to realise this faith in that area of your lives?

I've been noticing a pattern of how Neptune works.
First comes the illusion/delusion, rose-colored glasses experience, the naivete of awareness not yet purified in
the fires of Saturnian reality.
Next is disillusionment. When the fog of Neptune burns away and temporarily all is left is the cold harsh"reality" of Saturn.
Finally, Neptune returns, transformed, with a grounded wisdom. Its vision is broader, calmer. It sees thepractical reality but retains its vision. It rises high enough to see all, and embraces all aspects of life... thehighs and lows, the good and bad, the beautiful and ugly. Something is surrendered, a sacrifice is asked of us.
We must exchange the lopsided dualistic fantasies for the nondualistic awareness of reality as it is now, in thespirit of compassion and forgiveness.
I find that in my life experience with Neptune, this is always the process. My natal Neptune is in Scorpio in 8thhouse, involved in a T-square with Saturn in Taurus in 1st, and Mars in Leo in 6th. Also included at the missing
leg is my NN in Pisces in 12th (Neptune ruled). Additionally, Pisces is intercepted in my 12th house, so in a way
you could say that this Neptunian realm is a layer hidden deep within me. It's not inaccessible to me by anymeans, but it's something that I don't always know how to show to others or share of myself. In a way it'ssuch a revelatory experience that perhaps it's impossible to accurate convey what I see to anyone else.
Many of my life experiences begin as illusions/delusions/deceptions. There's been much disillusionment too,followed by a more mature awareness. In a way there's always illusion that I'm grappling with. Neptune takes
me into deeper and deeper layers, into more and more subtle realms of it, as it teaches me. Is there an end tothese layers? Sometimes the impatience at never seeming to reach an end is a test in faith itself. But then I
am asked to surrender even this, as there's really no choice but to continue. I go deeper with Neptune. Not
into heavens, but deep into the earth it takes me, into the darkness. As I find a new bottom, eventually it too
drops out, and then another one... and another... and another....
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space oasis

Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #15 - on: 03.05.2010 at 05:32 [UT+1] »Why does Neptune blind us?
I was riding my skateboard today. I worried that my glasses which alter my vertical depth perception might
hinder me. I had fallen many times off my board. And as I started to wobble a little, I thought to myself, "Hell,
Posts: 212

I should be able to ride this blind!"
By admitting that, my body took over, I sensed the ground through my feet, and proprioception kicked intohigher gear. Perhaps, paradoxically, Neptune blinds us to ground us. We rely on "vision" too much sometimes.

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visions
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #16 - on: 03.05.2010 at 07:19 [UT+1] »Quote from space oasis on 03.05.2010 at 05:32 [UT+1]:
Why does Neptune blind us?
I was riding my skateboard today. I worried that my glasses which alter my vertical depth perception might hinder me. I had fallen manytimes off my board. And as I started to wobble a little, I thought to myself, "Hell, I should be able to ride this blind!"
By admitting that, my body took over, I sensed the ground through my feet, and proprioception kicked into higher gear. Perhaps,
paradoxically, Neptune blinds us to ground us. We rely on "vision" too much sometimes.

i love this sentence !
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space oasis

Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #17 - on: 03.05.2010 at 08:03 [UT+1] »visions, hahah

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daturaMember

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #18 - on: 03.05.2010 at 09:01 [UT+1] »we are all living in a world of illusions. each of us in his own world of illusions. in my reality its all the planetsthat determine the shape of one's world, but neptune is the one that actually makes us feel that there is more
to experience than this that surrounds us.
I have AmI in 2H

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Skye Dam

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #19 - on: 03.05.2010 at 17:04 [UT+1] »What a great story, datura.
Trusting & relying on Neptune can bring amazing results. Ex. with drawing exercises where you only look at the
subject, and not at your paper, which allows you to trust in the slow process of drawing & see in ways you neverthought possible. In a way, it disconnects one from drawing what you THINK is there, and actually see.
Essentially your hands become your eyes.
Artists often talk about entering "the zone" and it's really a Neptunian experience.
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banditEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #20 - on: 03.05.2010 at 17:29 [UT+1] »i think the main problem people have about neptune is they want to grasp it. they want to taste it, feel it andso on.
it is not of this world, it is a gift from the universe that is within all that is created, the gateway to the galactic
highway and beyond. it connects everything and contains messages that are universal in nature and whenpeople use this force creatively can tune into other realms that are manifesting but not of the material plane.
psychic ability, being able to read the ether's tone and sense the spirit is neptune, to be able to percieve withaccuracy what lies behind actions and words and how to relate to difficult situations that arise from time totime without violence.
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Archer7

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #21 - on: 04.05.2010 at 03:04 [UT+1] »Quote from ~drop~ on 02.05.2010 at 12:12 [UT+1]:
I have Neptune on the ascendant and faith is one of my earliest memories. I think I can relate to how you put it; "a kind of trust in theunknown". It's still there, although sometimes overshadowed lately.
It does have a Neptunian feel to me too, but in my case I'm not sure how much I can differentiate between Jupiter and Neptune. They're
so closely intertwined, in a tight square, with Neptune in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Pisces. I think it's a combination of the two.

I have this square too, by less than one degree orb. I'm hoping at a later stage to delve further into how theywork together, because the square between them is peculiar in that we are dealing with mutual reception. The
way you expand in life always relies on your imagination to express itself, and the way you imagine, or look to
inner life (Neptune) relies on how you expand in life. Also I've heard this aspect to be associated with taking
unusual leaps of faith, or even mystical experiences, lucid dreams....the inner world, the inner life of symbols
somehow becomes the way of learning (Jupiter) about life.
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Archer7
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #22 - on: 04.05.2010 at 03:31 [UT+1] »Quote from Steve3 on 02.05.2010 at 14:33 [UT+1]:
Neptune is the most heavily aspected planet on my chart. I allow myself to embrace the impossible even if there is just a hint of it. I
have found 'the impossible' morphing into 'the real' many times in my life. Even now I have a transit,

IqD, and the Astrodienst

horoscope interpretation is titled 'It Can be Real'.
Is that a Neptunian invitation to Icarus or what? After all.... he did fall into the sea.
(note to self: need better wax!)

Steve I'm going to have this same transit next year, I'd love to hear how you experience this transit yourself,what it means for you. Robert Hand's interpretations are valuable, but they are often so general I try to keepthem in the back of my mind when I look at my chart. Plus if Neptune is sextiling your natal Venus, is Uranus
also squaring it?
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IP LoggedArcher7

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #23 - on: 04.05.2010 at 04:11 [UT+1] »Butterflye,
If Neptune encompasses every color, every shade, every hue, then Saturn is limited to just the prime colors.
Which is more true? How can those who cannot see beyond the scope of Saturn understand the realm of
Neptune? Yet in a Saturn-dominated third dimensional world we live in, we must find a way to translate thelanguage of Neptune into that of earthy Saturn, without losing the awareness of its meaning.

I am always doing this, and I noticed a tight quintile in my chart between Saturn and Neptune. When I was
about 19, while awake and even in my dreams, you could say I somehow had many magical moments where I
had what one might call visions and mystical states. Nothing hocus pocus about them, just a true, blissful
clarity and awareness that really was not so much beyond reality, but the essence of it to me. Then I would
come out of these states and dreams and feel a grief and discontent I can't begin to describe. Because here, on
earth, there is me with the baggage of my past, there is discord and ideas in life that don't seem to work
together, not to mention collective events that one simply feels disempowered from preventing or helping with.
Point is I then decided what I saw in my states was only symbolic, and therefore I should ignore them as nicepast dreams and try to be 'realistic' with my life. Well, want to know which planet truly kicks your arse thehardest if you ignore it? In my case, promise, its Neptune!
In time I have learnt that everything I experienced in those states and dreams really was meant to be. I know
this because I have realised some of their themes in the most tangible and realistic aspects of my life. In fact
those were not mere dreams nor mystical states.....I saw the real face of what reality is to me. Neptune and
Uranus were transiting my twelfth house, and Saturn was making exact conjunctions to my natal Jupiter whenthese dreams and states most vividly occurred. Neptune, as you said, is every color, and to me it can give true
sanity in enabling us to see reality through its several dimensions. The mistake always, always happens when
we mistake the transcient with the eternal, the part with the whole. You know I'm a Bruce Lee fan, and I likehow he often said, 'Do not mistake the moon with the finger pointing at the moon.' Saturn is incarnation. I
wish people would remember the sea goat and its traditional rule over Aquarius to see that Saturn is not justabout tangible, earthly incarnation: its also about incarnating anything including our minds through innerconceptual structures too. We would not have calculus without Saturn. We would not even have astrology withthe structures of the natal chart, aspects, etc without Saturn. I don't see the point of having dreams just forthe sake of dreaming. In my life, I have had no choice but to go with my dreams, it wasn't a luxury or fancy, it
was a demand on my whole existence. I fell into the worst states of mind and body when I ignored them andtried to fit in with what my parents and even peers insisted was real and true.

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Archer7
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #24 - on: 04.05.2010 at 04:18 [UT+1] »Quote from Skye Dam on 02.05.2010 at 19:05 [UT+1]:
Neptune dissolves earthly boundaries. In this state of being completely open, one is able to transcend physical limitations and connect with"something that is greater than ourselves." This is not faith, but rather faith is the byproduct where we classify certain experiences as"spiritual."
Being attuned to Neptune, allows us to understand the concept of osmosis. Barriers are broken down, and a merging of entities are
possible. When you break into different dimensions, there is a type of pressure that is exerted when entering. A sound is also emitted. Itreverberates.... I-Ching, I -Ching I-Ching
Sky Dam, this is too interesting!!!! Would you mind elaborating just a little on what you meant by 'when you break into different
dimensions, there is a type of pressure that is exerted when entering. It reverberates 'I-Ching'. Why I-Ching? It sounds so beautiful but I
don't fully understand this.

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Archer7

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #25 - on: 04.05.2010 at 04:20 [UT+1] »Quote from space oasis on 03.05.2010 at 05:32 [UT+1]:
Why does Neptune blind us?
I was riding my skateboard today. I worried that my glasses which alter my vertical depth perception might hinder me. I had fallen manytimes off my board. And as I started to wobble a little, I thought to myself, "Hell, I should be able to ride this blind!"
By admitting that, my body took over, I sensed the ground through my feet, and proprioception kicked into higher gear. Perhaps,
paradoxically, Neptune blinds us to ground us. We rely on "vision" too much sometimes.

'We begin to believe a lie,
When we see not thro' the eye' (Blake)
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #26 - on: 04.05.2010 at 04:46 [UT+1] »DJ, thank you as always. I'm still thinking about the distinctions you made between Jupiter and Neptune.
Jupiter expands whatever it touches. Neptune dissipates, makes more 'subtle', refines.
Visions, sounds to me like you're really tapping into the more creative levels of your imagination. I havealways, always, always, hated, loathed, even detested (lol) the idea of just using my imagination to 'escape'from reality. My entire research as a student was dedicated to the ideas Alec King taught in literature, which wasthat the imagination is primary to our lives, our selves. I think of those horridly boring soap operas where
people have the same issues twenty years later where nothing is ever resolved are a mirror of what happens
when imagination is divorced from our daily lives. 'Days of our lives' becomes 'Chains of our lives'
Bandit,I agree with you on the level that spirituality can not ever be totally contained. Neptune can't be 'possessed', itsomehow works with life here and now, but it is not of this world because it isn't limited to just one or two oreven a thousand aspects of living. The principle of Taoism I think captures this well, in that true knowledge isthe closest presence to us, and yet can never be fully known.
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Archer7

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #27 - on: 04.05.2010 at 04:53 [UT+1] »This is the first time I've ever started a thread where I just felt like replying to every post made in here, but I'll
stop myself for now. Thank you to each and every person for your insights, thoughts and reflections.

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direct Jupitarian
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #28 - on: 04.05.2010 at 05:14 [UT+1] »Thank you Serene Sphinx, Butterflye, and Archer7 for the acknowledgments.
Re: Jupiter and Neptune, and the differences. It is perhaps important to note that there are more similarities
than differences between the two. Again, the basic difference is that Neptune is more polarized/imbalanced to
the Yin, and Jupiter to the Yang.
It's interesting to look at their corresponding color frequencies. Jupiter is royal purple, and Neptune a blue
violet (with some pinkish) shade.
Frequency wise, these are on a similar overall wavelength. I don't find it suprising then, that they bothpartake in ruling the same sign, Pisces.
It's interesting to note that if you mix the more red balanced Jupiter and the more blue predominant Neptune
in about equal combination, you come up with true violet.
This is the energy signature of Pisces, and more specifically most pure at 15 degree area of Pisces.

Violet is

the fastest vibratory frequency color we perceive. To me, it's not a mistake then that this is Pisces frequency as
it is the last Sign.
Signs represent personality stages and consciousnesses i.e. in relation to Earth and it's relative forces. Pisces
represents the death of the personality, so that the Soul can be fully born/awakened within the person.
This is by no means, the last stage in the grander scheme of things, only in relation to personality and earthly
energies. If we can attune to and master the Pisces stage, then we become aware of more expanded energy
systems than our own. We then can move into the Solar Consciousness, which leads to Arcturus, which
eventually leads to the Galactic Center, and after that is full, fully conscious Source attunement andconsciousness. (at least, this is how it's been explained to me by those who have completed these processes
already).
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butterflye

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #29 - on: 04.05.2010 at 05:42 [UT+1] »Hi Archer,
I had what one might call visions and mystical states. Nothing hocus pocus about them, just a true, blissful
clarity and awareness that really was not so much beyond reality, but the essence of it to me. Then I would
come out of these states and dreams and feel a grief and discontent I can't begin to describe. Because here,on earth, there is me with the baggage of my past...

I know what you're speaking of. And yes it's really not so much beyond reality. Or perhaps at some point the"real" reality becomes so much more familiar that it doesn't seem so out of reach. But yes, the grief anddiscontent... You know, speaking as someone with the Virgo/Pisces axis emphasized, as well as theSaturn/Neptune natal opposition, this is the dilemma I grapple with constantly. Because I toggle in and out of
the awareness of one-ness.
But you know, what I am seeing more and more is that this one-ness isn't somewhere in the future, toexperience after we get all our ego-stuff straightened out. No, it exists right now, and we have access to it
RIGHT NOW. It's a flip of a switch away. The baggage of the past (and hope for the future) is what the egoic
awareness calls "the world" and considers normal. It fights to keep alive a never ending string of problems toresolve before it will grant us permission to enter the heavenly realm. But of course that day never comes,
because the problems never end.
And then something within us just opens up, and seems to bypass all the problems, all the issues, all the yesbuts, disregarding everything except the truth of the Vision. And for some people that vision remains at theforefront of their awareness, as they continue going about their days in "the world". And for the rest ofus...well, we toggle back and forth for a time.
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direct Jupitarian
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #30 - on: 04.05.2010 at 06:12 [UT+1] »It's like anything with humans and enacting change.
equation.

There is an "opening up", receptive, Yin side to theThen there is the active, Yang, choice exercising part--the "striving" part. The former shows us the need andpossibility of change, and helps the latter to enact that change. The former is like meditation and glimpsing acertain state of being and awareness during it, then the Yang part is taking this out into the world, putting it
into practice by consistent choice and desire.

We have created mental and emotional habits of selfishness, separateness, etc.
A wise source once said, the only way to change a limiting habit, is to replace it with a more positive, freeing
one. This is the same idea behind hypnosis and suggestions to the subconscious mind. The subconscious
mind is the ruling mind in all ultimately. It can only be changed through and by positive suggestion. It justsimply does not understand or even compute "no's, won't, can't, shouldn't, etc."
We eventually create a habit of lovingness, which when it becomes more and more set, more and morepracticed, eventually starts to starve the habits of selfishness.
Until eventually, only lovingness remains as a mental and emotional habit and choice pattern.

Cayce's

guidance said that even Yeshua's Soul needed some 30 human lifetimes to fully reawaken and open up to thisagain (and he was/is the Mozart of spiritual growth/awakening).
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Archer7

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #31 - on: 04.05.2010 at 09:12 [UT+1] »Quote from butterflye on 04.05.2010 at 05:42 [UT+1]:
Hi Archer,

I had what one might call visions and mystical states. Nothing hocus pocus about them, just a
true, blissful clarity and awareness that really was not so much beyond reality, but the essenceof it to me. Then I would come out of these states and dreams and feel a grief and discontent I
can't begin to describe. Because here, on earth, there is me with the baggage of my past...
I know what you're speaking of. And yes it's really not so much beyond reality. Or perhaps at some point the "real" reality becomes somuch more familiar that it doesn't seem so out of reach. But yes, the grief and discontent... You know, speaking as someone with the
Virgo/Pisces axis emphasized, as well as the Saturn/Neptune natal opposition, this is the dilemma I grapple with constantly. Because I
toggle in and out of the awareness of one-ness.
But you know, what I am seeing more and more is that this one-ness isn't somewhere in the future, to experience after we get all ourego-stuff straightened out. No, it exists right now, and we have access to it RIGHT NOW. It's a flip of a switch away. The baggage of thepast (and hope for the future) is what the egoic awareness calls "the world" and considers normal. It fights to keep alive a never ending
string of problems to resolve before it will grant us permission to enter the heavenly realm. But of course that day never comes, because
the problems never end.
And then something within us just opens up, and seems to bypass all the problems, all the issues, all the yes-buts, disregarding everything
except the truth of the Vision. And for some people that vision remains at the forefront of their awareness, as they continue going about
their days in "the world". And for the rest of us...well, we toggle back and forth for a time.

Far out could you have put it more perfectly!

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Archer7
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #32 - on: 04.05.2010 at 09:39 [UT+1] »A wise source once said, the only way to change a limiting habit, is to replace it with a more positive, freeing
one. This is the same idea behind hypnosis and suggestions to the subconscious mind. The subconscious
mind is the ruling mind in all ultimately. It can only be changed through and by positive suggestion. It justsimply does not understand or even compute "no's, won't, can't, shouldn't, etc.

Exactly and agreed.
Just one thing though DJ. When you talk about breaking out of selfish habbits and becoming more loving. Well,
don't you think in some cases some people actually need to learn to be a bit more selfish and this can enhancetheir loving?
There really are people in this world who know how to look after others, but have no idea as to how to takecare of themselves. I saw two such people burn out. I am not saying they are better or worse than people who
do focus more on their own needs, but in their case, I'd actually suggest they learn to be a bit more selfish,
which in turn could help them be more authentically loving.
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butterflye

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #33 - on: 04.05.2010 at 17:35 [UT+1] »A habit of lovingness....
I don't presume to know what lovingness means.

At least, such knowing isn't something a mind canunderstand or figure out. What concept, what idea, would further delineate the necessary behaviors andcharacteristics to apply toward developing such a new habit?
I place no trust in actions arising from ideas or belief structures. Talk about illusions! These are riddled withthem. The mind can convince itself of anything, and call it love.
Ten people will observe a single act, and all will have a different perception of what motivated it. I have had
experiences in my life that will probably never be understood or approved of by society's standards, but in mysoul I know the driving force was love. It wasn't an idea... because all my ideas about it were riddled with the
angst colored by social conditioning. But something deeper compelled me to disregard all such ideas and obeya knowing that was so profound it renedered me completely still at the core of my being.
To this day the only way I know I'm touching love is when I connect with this stillness within myself. And that's
how I know whether or not I'm seeing something or someone clearly. And until I do, my focus is onquestioning the lies that the mind furiously spins, day in and day out.
We can't love our neighbor as ourselves until we know our neighbor TO BE ourselves.
In the place of stillness, there is no distinction between "me" and "you".
The clarity comes suddenly, sometimes. There seems to be no rhyme or reason how long I must question
something. Time is not in my control in these matters. I just plod on, continuing to simply look at it, letting
go any need for resolution. And then a wave will wash over me and whatever block to awareness was there justmoments before disappears. I've had this happen so many times I've become quite used to the process of how
it works.
My job is to recognize any disturbance in the force, any ripples on the surface of my still pond. The willingness
to see clearly is all that is asked of me.
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Ceto*
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #34 - on: 04.05.2010 at 19:18 [UT+1] »I thought this was a funny article, esp for astrologers.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527522.900-neptune-may-have-eaten-a-plan et-andstolen-its-moon.html

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Skye Dam

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #35 - on: 04.05.2010 at 20:41 [UT+1] »Good question, Archer. I don't know why the sound is I-Ching. This is just an observation of a sound I notedwith a few OBE experiences I had when I was younger & did not understand what was happening.
I think maybe the sound is the result of higher density material changing, as it becomes less dense, in order topass through into the astral plane into other dimensions. This sound also corresponds to a visual image, which
is much like seeing your body image repeating itself as it becomes less dense.
The only way I can explain how this looks is to position yourself in front of a mirror, with another mirror facingthat mirror. You can see what looks like a never ending reflection & replication of yourself.
It is interesting that I heard this sound, as I did not have knowledge of the I-Ching at that time. But the basic
principle of change seems to be the common tread.

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Steve3
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #36 - on: 04.05.2010 at 22:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Archer7 on 04.05.2010 at 03:31 [UT+1]:
Quote from Steve3 on 02.05.2010 at 14:33 [UT+1]:
Neptune is the most heavily aspected planet on my chart. I allow myself to embrace the impossible even if there is just ahint of it. I have found 'the impossible' morphing into 'the real' many times in my life. Even now I have a transit,,

IqD

and the Astrodienst horoscope interpretation is titled 'It Can be Real'.
Is that a Neptunian invitation to Icarus or what? After all.... he did fall into the sea.
(note to self: need better wax!)

Steve I'm going to have this same transit next year, I'd love to hear how you experience this transit yourself, what it means for you.
Robert Hand's interpretations are valuable, but they are often so general I try to keep them in the back of my mind when I look at mychart. Plus if Neptune is sextiling your natal Venus, is Uranus also squaring it?

Yes Uranus is squaring it. So... I should take notes on my Venus affairs. Hmmm... hmmmm... good idea.
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EyesisEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #37 - on: 04.05.2010 at 22:46 [UT+1] »What of those of us who have this as a constant state in one form or another? It is difficult for me duringcertain transits for me to distinguish between "That" world and "This world".
It is great for me on so many levels, but it also gives others the impression of me being not of this world. I saw
myself on TV, when they interviewed me after we had a tornado. It was truly strange to see myself, and that I
almost appeared as though you could pass your hand through me. I don't think I have been the same sense. I
think I have tried to ground myself at my own expense.KFIC gmIh 4h
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space oasis
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #38 - on: 04.05.2010 at 23:01 [UT+1] »Ah Archer7, let's see if I understand what you mean now, after thinking about it for a while.
We are led to believe a lie

Posts: 212

When we see not thro' the eye,
Which was born in a night to perish in a night,
When the soul slept in beams of light.
The "eye" is temporary, the transient, whereas the light is "God." The lie is seeing "naught," as in nothing in thedarkness of night. The lie is when we are asleep.
Sleep is such a Neptunian thing...
Neptune and Saturn, maybe Wilde had it:"A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before
the rest of the world."
He had GoI.
What Neptune is by itself, in essence, is different from what Neptune is in relation to other planets, especially inthe case of Saturn. Yet how is that possible with a planet that symbolizes non-singularity? Neptune by itself
must be pure, and practically impossible to spell out or explain neatly to others. But when we try to explain our
Neptune to others, we can only do it by referencing it to something else, which only results in distortion.
Eventually, that spiral of phi taught me to stop looking for something "else" outside of the inherent clarity of it
within by which I could "grasp" the concept of Neptune. When it comes to the application of lovingness as
symbolized by Neptune, I cannot ACT or SPEAK of that love.
I don't see things in a Saturn vs Neptune perspective, but I cannot deny how much conflict there is when theirrealms overlap. And I feel the pain, the inherent conflict. It's especially frustrating in an interpersonal context(I'm a Libra Sun) when you have a Saturnian bond that seems to make Neptunian love impossible.
I know
it's not, but the question becomes, when will s/he know it too? I cannot tell her/him. And so Neptune can makeme feel so empowered by love/unity/eternity, yet so powerless by isolation, when I see through my normaleyes.
But essentially, Neptune is. Which makes me believe it might be above the illusion/faith/truth polarity.

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banditEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #39 - on: 04.05.2010 at 23:08 [UT+1] »Quote from space oasis on 04.05.2010 at 23:01 [UT+1]:
Ah Archer7, let's see if I understand what you mean now, after thinking about it for a while.
We are led to believe a lie
When we see not thro' the eye,
Which was born in a night to perish in a night,
When the soul slept in beams of light.
The "eye" is temporary, the transient, whereas the light is "God." The lie is seeing "naught," as in nothing in the darkness of night. The lie
is when we are asleep.
Sleep is such a Neptunian thing...
Neptune and Saturn, maybe Wilde had it:"A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world."
He had

GoI.

What Neptune is by itself, in essence, is different from what Neptune is in relation to other planets, especially in the case of Saturn. Yet
how is that possible with a planet that symbolizes non-singularity? Neptune by itself must be pure, and practically impossible to spell out
or explain neatly to others. But when we try to explain our Neptune to others, we can only do it by referencing it to something else, which
only results in distortion. Eventually, that spiral of phi taught me to stop looking for something "else" outside of the inherent clarity of it
within by which I could "grasp" the concept of Neptune. When it comes to the application of lovingness as symbolized by Neptune, I cannot
ACT or SPEAK of that love.
I don't see things in a Saturn vs Neptune perspective, but I cannot deny how much conflict there is when their realms overlap. And I feelthe pain, the inherent conflict. It's especially frustrating in an interpersonal context (I'm a Libra Sun) when you have a Saturnian bondthat seems to make Neptunian love impossible.

I know it's not, but the question becomes, when will s/he know it too? I cannot tellher/him. And so Neptune can make me feel so empowered by love/unity/eternity, yet so powerless by isolation, when I see through mynormal eyes.
But essentially, Neptune is. Which makes me believe it might be above the illusion/faith/truth polarity.

lovely reading.
when you can accept the "hell" you will be in "heaven"
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #40 - on: 05.05.2010 at 00:53 [UT+1] »I enjoyed reading your thoughts about Neptune here everyone, very much
I hope i'm in the topic here, but sometimes the presence of Saturnian people is important to Neptunians andother way around.
I've noticed this because i'm heavily Neptunian and while it's a very comfortable, wonderful and lovely planet toPosts: 2187
Gender:have as a ruler and much more, sometimes the sensitivity and so can cause escapism from reality to the otherreality of fantasy world and Neptune, so the Saturnian friends have been great help for me and i for them too
in return i hope. My sister has Uranus on her Libra AC & i have to say she is great at "waking me up" as well.
Her capricorn moon helps alot too.
I quite like this article, because it talked about Neptune and Saturn together.
Saturn deceives us into thinking the physical is real, and Neptune reflects the elusiveness and apparent unreal
nature of spirit. Saturn represents the illusion of the material world within a spiritual manifestation (theexperience of living in this world), and Neptune reflects the illusion of spirit within the material world.
Where Saturn is found, the material world deceives us, and where Neptune is found spirit is sacrificed as anillusion; unobtainable. They are both real, and both illusions.
Saturn tests our ability to consciously perceive what our beliefs about reality create, even if these beliefs are
not consciously accessible to the self. Neptune directs the unfolding drama from the higher self non-physicalworld. Saturn says if we do not strategize our plan for success, failure will result. Neptune says, what does aman have if he gains the world and loses his soul?
Uranus is the planet that falls between these two planets that resolves this paradox--the awakener, that
dissolves (Neptune) our focus (Saturn) and through the recognition of choice transforms perspective (Pluto)to
prepare us for interaction with other systems. This is what is meant by "born again".

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butterflye

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #41 - on: 05.05.2010 at 01:42 [UT+1] »Thank you for the article, Celes. With my natal GnI, this subject is always of interest to me.

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #42 - on: 05.05.2010 at 05:47 [UT+1] »Quote from Archer7 on 04.05.2010 at 09:39 [UT+1]:
Exactly and agreed.

Just one thing though DJ. When you talk about breaking out of selfish habbits and becoming
more loving. Well, don't you think in some cases some people actually need to learn to be a bit
more selfish and this can enhance their loving?
There really are people in this world who know how to look after others, but have no idea as to
how to take care of themselves. I saw two such people burn out. I am not saying they are better or worse than people who
do focus more on their own needs, but in their case, I'd actually suggest they learn to be a bit more selfish, which in turn could help thembe more authentically loving.

I have N. Node very, very closely cusping Leo (0 degree 03' Virgo) and in the 1st House. Does this mean
dharmically that i should be more "selfish"?
For some years, i worked in the in home care service area. First it was with elderly people, and then later witha some boys with sever cerebral palsy, and also a teen with some intellectual, emotional, and physical healthissues.
During my time doing this kind of work, i met many others doing similar work. "Burnout" was somewhat
common. Many of these people were basically kind, giving, and loving people. But in many cases their
lovingness was the lovingness more attuned to the Moon, Venus, and/or some Neptune mixed in.
In other words, these people did not fully attune to the most pure, unconditional, universal love possible
consistently enough.
This lack is what led to burnout. I will answer your question as i believe and feel my teacher would answer it.

"If you love perfectly in a consistent manner, and give all of yourself with no thought of return, ofcompensation, without need of acknowledgment, then you set up a perfect and powerful, continuous circuit of
supporting energy from Source to you. This powerful connection will feed, sustain, and uplift you so that you
can continue to serve perfectly. This, my friends, is what i have done and this is what my life and example wasabout. To teach and show you by pure example what perfect love in constant action looks like. I had myhuman moments of suffering, weakness, temptation, and loneliness, and yet through that dedication to Source
and Creation--to Love, i overcame all fear, all limitations , all suffering, and all fleshly weakness. I evenovercame the illusion of physical death. You can do as i, if you will but live and choose as i did and do live &choose."Selfishness is what creates weakness, distortions, and imbalances of all kind. The part of us which we havecreated as a habit of separation, and which is personified and most experienced in the physical Earth and in ourhuman bodies tempts us in subtle ways. It says, well maybe it's important to be more selfish sometimes.
I would say, trust only completely in those who have fully merged with Source, and their examples. My
teacher, well, every waking moment of his life and thinking was dedicated to and about others, especially in the
more collective, long term sense.

He never advised being selfish.

He did advise taking alone time at times to balance and reorient self so that one could serve better in the
more long term sense (he occasionally separated himself from others to fast, pray, and meditate). He didadvise exploring self and being conscious of self, but again, the focus and intention was in order for one to be abetter lover and server in relation to others.
Some mistakenly think that to spiritually grow and mature means one can't think or talk of self in general ormore specifically in a positive way. This is not the case at all. While it should not be the focus, what truly
brings spiritual growth and maturity is consistently thinking of others in a more positive, loving, accepting, andcompassionate sense.
The individual, unique, freewilled self is just as beautiful and worthy as any other self or the collective.

It'sin putting down, being intolerant, and unloving towards others, whether just in thought and feeling, or inwords and deed, which brings the most blocks and hinderances to self's growth towards full and complete
Source attunement.
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Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #43 - on: 05.05.2010 at 06:15 [UT+1] »Quote from butterflye on 04.05.2010 at 17:35 [UT+1]:
A habit of lovingness....
I don't presume to know what lovingness means. At least, such knowing isn't something a mind can understand or figure out. Whatconcept, what idea, would further delineate the necessary behaviors and characteristics to apply toward developing such a new habit?
I place no trust in actions arising from ideas or belief structures. Talk about illusions! These are riddled with them. The mind can convince
itself of anything, and call it love.

Why complicate this? "Love" is that which when chosen and lived, brings a peace, a joy, a contentment, andan expanded awareness to self.
It is caring more for the other and the collective than for the little individual self and showing this in action, in
feelings, thoughts.
We often choose and live love when we have listened to that small, still voice deep within us.
Those who could be said to be "guides", "helpers", etc. along the way, are just those who have made a habit of
the above and under many different kinds of experiences, and especially in very testing and challenging
experiences. Those who grow and awaken the most, often choose to go through constant testing, challenge,
and difficulty.
Quote:
We can't love our neighbor as ourselves until we know our neighbor TO BE ourselves.

This is very true and well said. A big part of opening up to, choosing, and creating a habit of lovingness isrealize that all is One and connected and that what you do or think/feel in relation to another, you do and affectyour Maker, the whole of Creation, and yourself by. Once this is really understood and known on a deep level,
then it becomes simply common sense and logic to live in a positive manner in relation to all others universally.
It will only bring growth if it is applied universally and unconditionally.
Quote:In the place of stillness, there is no distinction between "me" and "you".

I would say that this is both yes and no at the same time. While we are part and parcel of One Whole self,
fully connected, we also were created by Source to purposely be individualized, unique, freewilled Beings and in
an eternal sense.
This individuality, uniqueness, and relative side of reality is just as sacred and important as the Oneness.
"Distinction" implies "differences" between one consciousness and another.
That does exist and is meant to exist. "Difference, aka distinction" is what allows for uniqueness andindividuality. What does not objectively exist is that one self is inherently better, greater, or what not thananother in a moral sense.
What does exist is that some selves choose to live in a more creative, Source like way, and thus manifest that
greater attunement and at-one-ment with Source which is of course is desirable and in a sense the "better" way.
This can only bring but joy and a deep peace to self, and the more it is purely lived, the more these are more
purely and intensely experienced.
This lack of recognition of the latter, among the sons and daughters of humanity, is what keeps so many andthe collective so stuck in this dimension.
So many of us are arrogant, are defensive, we don't want to think there is an objectively better way to live andchoose. We prefer to be moral relativists that say, hey, anything goes and any expression and choosing is justas good as another. The common cry of most of humanity is, "don't judge me! ..even if i am judging you
constantly."
Yet, this is not the message and example of he who perfectly overcame all in the flesh.
This is why we tend to either get rid of or kill all the real teachers, guides, and prophets that come to us.
These make us feel very uncomfortable about self and the lacks deep down that we know we have but don't
want to admit to self or to others. These lacks can be in our perceptions, our beliefs, our very personality
tendencies, etc.
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butterflye
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #44 - on: 05.05.2010 at 18:23 [UT+1] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 05.05.2010 at 06:15 [UT+1]:
Quote:In the place of stillness, there is no distinction between "me" and "you".

I would say that this is both yes and no at the same time. While we are part and parcel of One Whole self, fully connected, we also werecreated by Source to purposely be individualized, unique, freewilled Beings and in an eternal sense.
This individuality, uniqueness, and relative side of reality is just as sacred and important as the Oneness. "Distinction" implies"differences" between one consciousness and another.
That does exist and is meant to exist. "Difference, aka distinction" is what allows for uniqueness and individuality. What does not
objectively exist is that one self is inherently better, greater, or what not than another in a moral sense.

Agreed. There is simultaneously the individualized and collective aspect to Being. We are made of the same
stuff, but arranged in a unique pattern, like a snowflake.
What I said above doesn't quite explain it, but nothing really does.

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Pistacia

Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #45 - on: 05.05.2010 at 19:30 [UT+1] »Quote from butterflye on 05.05.2010 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Thank you for the article, Celes. With my natal

GnI, this subject is always of interest to me.

You're welcome butterflye.
Posts: 2187
Gender:I think it's a wonderful aspect to have, and no i'm not kidding
I know few people with InG, they are both using that aspect incredibly, and i mean it in the most positiveway.

ImG is another interesting aspect as well, who few i know have as well. I myself have a sextile.
The opposition aspect of Saturn-Neptune is very significant - it indicates that this incarnation provides
opportunities for the spiritualizing of attitudes toward responsibility-fulfillments by Faith and Idealism and thedemonstration of spiritual consciousness as a redemption of responsibility-karma.
- Elman Bacher
With Neptune-Saturn, however, it is not a case of yearning to be a musician, a poet, a healer or a politicalphilosopher. It is a case of having to be, in order to cope with the constant internal conflict between the
structures and limits of earthly life and the chaotic flood that waits beyond Saturn's boundaries. ... For very
good reasons Saturn-Neptune is also known as the "artist's aspect" because the apparently mutually exclusive
worlds of physical form and boundless imagination can meet, albeit imperfectly in the artist's creation. It is the
only sphere of human endeavour where fantasy and reality can speak to each other without amputating vitalelements of both.
- Liz Greene, in The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption

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butterflye
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #46 - on: 05.05.2010 at 21:03 [UT+1] »Quote from Celes on 05.05.2010 at 19:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from butterflye on 05.05.2010 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Thank you for the article, Celes. With my natal

GnI, this subject is always of interest to me.

You're welcome butterflye.
I think it's a wonderful aspect to have, and no i'm not kidding

InG, they are both using that aspect incredibly, and i mean it in the most positive way.
ImG is another interesting aspect as well, who few i know have as well. I myself have a sextile.
I know few people with

The opposition aspect of Saturn-Neptune is very significant - it indicates that this incarnation provides opportunities for the spiritualizing of
attitudes toward responsibility-fulfillments by Faith and Idealism and the demonstration of spiritual consciousness as a redemption of
responsibility-karma.
- Elman Bacher
With Neptune-Saturn, however, it is not a case of yearning to be a musician, a poet, a healer or a political philosopher. It is a case of
having to be, in order to cope with the constant internal conflict between the structures and limits of earthly life and the chaotic flood thatwaits beyond Saturn's boundaries. ... For very good reasons Saturn-Neptune is also known as the "artist's aspect" because the apparently
mutually exclusive worlds of physical form and boundless imagination can meet, albeit imperfectly in the artist's creation. It is the only
sphere of human endeavour where fantasy and reality can speak to each other without amputating vital elements of both.
- Liz Greene, in The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption

Thank you, Celes. This is a significant influence, alchemical process, and driving force in my life. With this
opposition forming a T-square with my Mars in Leo, opposite NN in Pisces 12H, I feel magnetically pulled andprodded to actualize the NN. Finding that balance point is very challenging, but oh what joy when I do!
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space oasis

Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #47 - on: 06.05.2010 at 06:34 [UT+1] »Quote from Celes on 05.05.2010 at 19:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from butterflye on 05.05.2010 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Thank you for the article, Celes. With my natal

Posts: 212

GnI, this subject is always of interest to me.

You're welcome butterflye.
I think it's a wonderful aspect to have, and no i'm not kidding

InG, they are both using that aspect incredibly, and i mean it in the most positive way.
ImG is another interesting aspect as well, who few i know have as well. I myself have a sextile.
I know few people with

The opposition aspect of Saturn-Neptune is very significant - it indicates that this incarnation provides opportunities for the spiritualizing of
attitudes toward responsibility-fulfillments by Faith and Idealism and the demonstration of spiritual consciousness as a redemption of
responsibility-karma.
- Elman Bacher
With Neptune-Saturn, however, it is not a case of yearning to be a musician, a poet, a healer or a political philosopher. It is a case of
having to be, in order to cope with the constant internal conflict between the structures and limits of earthly life and the chaotic flood thatwaits beyond Saturn's boundaries. ... For very good reasons Saturn-Neptune is also known as the "artist's aspect" because the apparently
mutually exclusive worlds of physical form and boundless imagination can meet, albeit imperfectly in the artist's creation. It is the only
sphere of human endeavour where fantasy and reality can speak to each other without amputating vital elements of both.
- Liz Greene, in The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption

Thanks for providing that Liz Greene quote, what an eye-opener!! Having to be a musician, poet, healer or
philosopher. Ughhh it kills me that I am not more actively pursuing this. I have GIm in the 5th p C in the
2nd, both p b MC and q J. Why do I keep denying myself artistry? I KNOW I'm not going to be much of ascientist, what am I doing with my life??
Sorry for the outburst, but that quote really touched a sore spot in me.
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direct Jupitarian
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #48 - on: 06.05.2010 at 06:58 [UT+1] »Speaking as one with Saturn, the ruling planet of my Sun Sign, at the end of Virgo and widely square Sag
Neptune (ruler of my S. Node) in the 5th, well it's not easy to fully integrate and balance these two. I don't
find it so wonderful or positive.
But there is a discontent that leads one on to find the true path eventually.
Sometimes i feel like i should be doing more in the creative fields. Lately i occasionally remember dreams
wherein i'm playing the violin, playing the guitar, and generally creating and playing music.
I remember my last dream like this, which wasn't that long ago, maybe a few weeks or so, where i wascomposing this really beautiful peace (which i vividly heard and remembered shortly after waking up), and i felt
so joyful and alive doing so. I woke up thinking, "i really need to learn how to play the guitar and write/readmusic!"
With Taurus MC--Libra Moon, and Aqua Venus opposed the Asc and almost exactly trine Libra Pluto and sextile
Sag. Neptune in the 5th (trine the Asc), square Uranus, and Mars square Neptune as well, you would think it
might come somewhat naturally or easy.
What's stopping me? Fear; fear of inadequacy, fear of failure, fear of lack of full or more pure expression.
Very Saturn square Neptune.
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #49 - on: 06.05.2010 at 07:11 [UT+1] »Quote from butterflye on 05.05.2010 at 18:23 [UT+1]:
Agreed. There is simultaneously the individualized and collective aspect to Being. We are made of the same stuff, but arranged in aunique pattern, like a snowflake.
What I said above doesn't quite explain it, but nothing really does.

It is hard to holistically describe and put these nonphysical awareness's, feelings, and consciousnesses into
physical terms, words, and understanding.
When attending the Gateway Voyage program at The Monroe Institute, we listened to a tapped recording of
Rosiland A. McKnight channeling her main guide whom Bob Monroe humorously labeled "Ah So" (because of
the Asian accent and very "Aha" things he often had to say).
The trainers noted before playing the tape that apparently even these very aware and expanded helpers
sometimes had a hard time trying to translate nonphysical info into physical terms and words.
They noted these guidance energies tended to be repetitive, redundant, verbose, and to approach the sameidea in various different ways, to try to give the best, holistic, and easiest to understand in a more accurate way
version. (at other times, they would be very brief). They desired the utmost clarity in communication.
The tape listened to, showed "Ah So" getting accustomed to using words again, and it was almost comical,"This is a tree. A tree has roots. The tree's roots..." so on and so forth.
I think this is how i sometimes sound or come off to most humans when i write on forums.
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space oasis
Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #50 - on: 06.05.2010 at 09:12 [UT+1] »I keep going on this beaten path rather than the forest path because I fear failure too. I fear not being able topay my mother back for all she's invested in me, and that she will die unhappy, alone and ashamed.
I know it's not a realistic fear because my mother is wise enough to lead her own life and to let me live mine,
Posts: 212

and still love me to the fullest.
My sun is squared by BOI. I have always been fascinated by Neptune... even though it's not very strong in
my chart. I remember picking Neptune do to my project on in kindergarten, it's stuck with me since. With mySouth Node conjunct Jupiter, the ruler of my Moon, in the Cancer-ruled 12th, I feel the influence of a Neptunianlife, but without the visions, dreams and spiritual practice that would give me certainty. But I have faith of it, itcomes to me very intuitively. I need to get more involved in a spiritual community that's making an impact (sono reclusive monastery for me), that seems pretty GI to me. Just gotta be wary of cults!

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Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #51 - on: 06.05.2010 at 13:45 [UT+1] »Quote from space oasis on 06.05.2010 at 06:34 [UT+1]:
Quote from Celes on 05.05.2010 at 19:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from butterflye on 05.05.2010 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Thank you for the article, Celes. With my natal

GnI, this subject is always of interest to me.

You're welcome butterflye.
I think it's a wonderful aspect to have, and no i'm not kidding

InG

I know few people with, they are both using that aspect incredibly, and i mean it in the most positive way.
is another interesting aspect as well, who few i know have as well. I myself have a sextile.

ImG

The opposition aspect of Saturn-Neptune is very significant - it indicates that this incarnation provides opportunities for the
spiritualizing of attitudes toward responsibility-fulfillments by Faith and Idealism and the demonstration of spiritual
consciousness as a redemption of responsibility-karma.
- Elman Bacher
With Neptune-Saturn, however, it is not a case of yearning to be a musician, a poet, a healer or a political philosopher. It
is a case of having to be, in order to cope with the constant internal conflict between the structures and limits of earthly
life and the chaotic flood that waits beyond Saturn's boundaries. ... For very good reasons Saturn-Neptune is also known
as the "artist's aspect" because the apparently mutually exclusive worlds of physical form and boundless imagination canmeet, albeit imperfectly in the artist's creation. It is the only sphere of human endeavour where fantasy and reality canspeak to each other without amputating vital elements of both.
- Liz Greene, in The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption

Thanks for providing that Liz Greene quote, what an eye-opener!! Having to be a musician, poet, healer or philosopher. Ughhh it kills methat I am not more actively pursuing this. I have

GIm in the 5th p C in the 2nd, both p b MC and q J. Why do I keep denying myself

artistry? I KNOW I'm not going to be much of a scientist, what am I doing with my life??
Sorry for the outburst, but that quote really touched a sore spot in me.

Interesting. Can I ask which planet rules your fifth house cusp and where it is and what aspects it makes? Just
from what you've said here I can see there really is a relationship/connection with your creativity and career.
Have you touched on your creativity or really gone into exactly what it is for you? Plus science is not so far
from the Arts, its society that tends to split them so much. To me they are looking for the same thing indifferent ways, they are exploring and expressing the universe on the level of thought in science, andimagination in the arts. My main way of being creative is through writing, but for some reason its only when I
sit down and do calculus or study something in physics that my poetic/creative side really gets release.
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space oasis
Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #52 - on: 06.05.2010 at 16:42 [UT+1] »Jupiter in Leo in the 12th rules my 5th house. It is sextile Sun (2nd) and Mars (10th), quincunx Uranus, andopposite North Node.

Posts: 212

It's interesting you do writing for a living, but find physics to bring out your creativity. I'm in physics classes
now and they're interesting, but it's writing that really makes me feel like I'm touching something deeper.
Yes I've been told science and arts are not that far apart, they are both creative. The realms seems to tie incloser together too for people who are older, after they have established themselves in the orthodoxy of theirfield, they can start being more self-expressive and artistic. Art is the same way, after you have mastered thebasics, you can go wild with your imagination. But the difference in the way they look at things really affects
the lifestyle they live, and the groups they join, etc. The division in/by society. Is this another Saturn/Neptune
manifestation that needs Uranus resolution?

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butterflye

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #53 - on: 06.05.2010 at 17:06 [UT+1] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 06.05.2010 at 07:11 [UT+1]:
They noted these guidance energies tended to be repetitive, redundant, verbose, and to approach the same idea in various different ways,
to try to give the best, holistic, and easiest to understand in a more accurate way version. (at other times, they would be very brief).
They desired the utmost clarity in communication.

Oh Emm Gee.
That sound like me.
(hey that rhymes!)
Yes, words can be so frustrating! There's so much meaning lost when people can't feel the energy and rely
solely on words and concepts. That's why it's such a rich and joyful experience to communicate with someone
with whom there's an energetic psychic link, because so much more is conveyed.
No matter what is said, it can be picked apart. Even if the words are spoken by the most enlightened Soulthere ever was. Because words and concepts are dualistic, which implies the existence of an opposite, and are
therefore, ultimately, untrue. Like the Bruce Lee quote that Archer mentioned earlier (I love this quote!), 'Do
not mistake the moon with the finger pointing at the moon.' The finger (words) will never fully describe themeaning (moon). No matter how much someone explains how chocolate ice cream tastes, until we've actually
HAD IT, we'll never know.
So why speak at all? I don't know. In a way it makes no sense. And some don't. Some people who havewitnessed the moon and tasted the chocolate ice cream (to use the analogy) don't speak, but their energy
communes directly with ours, beneath the surface of conscious awareness. They contribute, somehow, withoutwords. But others are compelled to speak. Driven to share in this way. Again, it's still not the words, it's theenergy beneath and behind the words. And those who are ready and attuned to pick up on it, will. The words
are tools, nothing more. In themselves they are nothing. Those who rely on them exclusively WILL NOT GETIT.
Yet through this energetic communion, we touch one another. And this awakens the knower within. The Self isalways communicating with the Self.
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butterflye
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #54 - on: 06.05.2010 at 17:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Archer7 on 06.05.2010 at 13:45 [UT+1]:
Have you touched on your creativity or really gone into exactly what it is for you? Plus science is not so far from the Arts, its society thattends to split them so much. To me they are looking for the same thing in different ways, they are exploring and expressing the universeon the level of thought in science, and imagination in the arts. My main way of being creative is through writing, but for some reason its
only when I sit down and do calculus or study something in physics that my poetic/creative side really gets release.

I think people are too limited when they define "creativity". We are creative by our very nature. Perhaps thequestion should be "are we being natural" rather than "are we being creative"? And then to see what is naturalfor us. What flows? What feels joyful in expression. Anytime we're connected to joy and experience beauty
we're automatically being creative. Whether it's painting, playing music, seeing the beauty in the patterns ofmathematics, witnessing the interplay of matter which is science, or putting inspired thoughts into amanifested form of some kind.
One of my most creative periods was when I was an underwriter. Yes... you heard me right! This is not a typo.
I went through a period of intense inspiration where I clearly saw the objective of the company I wasworking for, as well as what stood in the way of its accomplishment. I designed a project to solve the problem
and then led its development and manifestation. It was like birthing a child, absolutely creative and joyful forme.
Anything, anything can be a work of creativity. The way we love one another, the way we give of ourselves infriendship, the way we listen, and of course all the other ways that are typically known as "creativity". Like an
IQ test, our true intelligence can never be measured by the tools of this world. Neither can creativity be
accurately described or defined.
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #55 - on: 07.05.2010 at 06:16 [UT+1] »Quote from space oasis on 06.05.2010 at 09:12 [UT+1]:
I keep going on this beaten path rather than the forest path because I fear failure too. I fear not being able to pay my mother back for all
she's invested in me, and that she will die unhappy, alone and ashamed.
I know it's not a realistic fear because my mother is wise enough to lead her own life and to let me live mine, and still love me to thefullest.
My sun is squared by

BOI. I have always been fascinated by Neptune... even though it's not very strong in my chart. I remember

picking Neptune do to my project on in kindergarten, it's stuck with me since. With my South Node conjunct Jupiter, the ruler of my Moon,in the Cancer-ruled 12th, I feel the influence of a Neptunian life, but without the visions, dreams and spiritual practice that would give me
certainty. But I have faith of it, it comes to me very intuitively. I need to get more involved in a spiritual community that's making an
impact (so no reclusive monastery for me), that seems pretty
to me. Just gotta be wary of cults!

GI

Well thankfully for us both, the first but most important step in transformation and regenerating is conscious
recognition and awareness of that which is limiting us from a more expanded perception.
May we all become aware of all limiting aspects and regenerate them.
Btw, seems you have taken the more difficult path. It stretches us more to believe in and more deeply feelout these realities when our guidance is more subtle in nature. This may be quite a positive indication about
you and your Soul path. And well reflected in some of those indications you pointed out.

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #56 - on: 07.05.2010 at 06:36 [UT+1] »Quote from butterflye on 06.05.2010 at 17:06 [UT+1]:

Yes, words can be so frustrating! There's so much meaning lost when people can't feel the energy and rely solely on words and concepts.
That's why it's such a rich and joyful experience to communicate with someone with whom there's an energetic psychic link, because somuch more is conveyed.

So true.
Quote:

No matter what is said, it can be picked apart. Even if the words are spoken by the most enlightened Soul there ever was. Because words
and concepts are dualistic, which implies the existence of an opposite, and are therefore, ultimately, untrue. Like the Bruce Lee quote that
Archer mentioned earlier (I love this quote!), 'Do not mistake the moon with the finger pointing at the moon.' The finger (words) will
never fully describe the meaning (moon). No matter how much someone explains how chocolate ice cream tastes, until we've actually
HAD IT, we'll never know.

Very true, and just as the symbols of astrology are not the actual consciousness, but symbolically reflecting orindicating these consciousnesses.
Quote:
So why speak at all? I don't know. In a way it makes no sense. And some don't. Some people who have witnessed the moon and tasted
the chocolate ice cream (to use the analogy) don't speak, but their energy communes directly with ours, beneath the surface of conscious
awareness. They contribute, somehow, without words. But others are compelled to speak. Driven to share in this way. Again, it's still not
the words, it's the energy beneath and behind the words. And those who are ready and attuned to pick up on it, will. The words are tools,
nothing more. In themselves they are nothing. Those who rely on them exclusively WILL NOT GET IT.

And yet deep within me, my Expanded self level says, "it's worth the effort to try to reach people where they
are at." Sometimes concepts, via words, will be stored as seeds within a person's subconscious to be awakened
later under the right convex (or is it confluence) of factors and situations.
There is no self growth, if we do not reach out to and try to uplift others. Since many do primarily only
choose to exist and communicate at the word-intellectual plane, then that's the medium of communicationnecessary at first.
Quote:
Yet through this energetic communion, we touch one another. And this awakens the knower within. The Self is always communicating with
the Self.

True, but as in most anything, it's balanced and holistic communication, communion and affecting which tends
to produce the healthiest and most constructive fruits.
Even Yeshua used words to communicate. He had to though he was fully telepathic. He was born in a very
"word" and intellectual oriented society and peoples.
In physical proximity with people, i don't tend to talk all that much. Yet i'm very aware that through the law
and reality of interconnection, that mutual presence has it's definite affects, and so i consciously make themindful effort to keep to a positive center.
Daily i deal intimately with all teenage boys from a wide range of backgrounds and experiences, but all sharethe societal wound that they are "different", and less abled in a world not very much concerned or set up for
their physical issue. There are definite deep anger and self esteem issues here among many of them. There issometimes lashing out because of this. Sometimes one is tempted to take it personally, when it's not personal.
Certainly we talk, but more so i try to reach and affect them through being an example, and from presence.
I consciously try to refrain from lecturing or preaching to them. I ask them pointed questions, or put things
in a different perspective, or often i just listen.
We started group meditation too, which is awesome! I was very surprised by their enthusiasm and openness
to this.
On forums, i'm left with these inadequate words and with a very impersonal way of communicating. It kind ofsucks, and many people misinterpret both my intentions and my messages all the time, but yet i feel it's
important to plug away at it nonetheless. (not to say that my intentions and messages are always pure andloving, as you well know from some earlier mutual miscommunication, and some lacking in light tendencies on
my part).
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butterflye

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #57 - on: 07.05.2010 at 06:55 [UT+1] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 07.05.2010 at 06:36 [UT+1]:
And yet deep within me, my Expanded self level says, "it's worth the effort to try to reach people where they are at." Sometimes
concepts, via words, will be stored as seeds within a person's subconscious to be awakened later under the right convex (or is it
confluence) of factors and situations.

Yes.
Quote:
There is no self growth, if we do not reach out to and try to uplift others. Since many do primarily only choose to exist and communicate
at the word-intellectual plane, then that's the medium of communication necessary at first.

and Yes.
(actually I must modify my answer to this. I'm not really one to TRY to uplift anyone. I used to..
but that doesn't ring true for me anymore. I just do what occurs naturally to me, and my focus is on relatingfrom my heart, not to play a role for someone.)
Quote:
Daily i deal intimately with all teenage boys from a wide range of backgrounds and experiences, but all share the societal wound that theyare "different", and less abled in a world not very much concerned or set up for their physical issue. There are definite deep anger and self
esteem issues here among many of them. There is sometimes lashing out because of this. Sometimes one is tempted to take it
personally, when it's not personal.

I understand. I once worked at a residential treatment facility for adolescents. I remember one girl inparticular. She was a paranoid schizophrenic. Brilliant girl, creative to the nth degree.. wrote poetry. We had aconnection and she told me she trusted me, which was unheard of for her. But she could FEEL energy, and she
could tell I really cared about her. I knew how to listen. Sometimes that's all it takes, to know someone caresand can just LISTEN to us, truly.
Quote:
We started group meditation too, which is awesome! I was very surprised by their enthusiasm and openness to this.

oh that's cool, DJ!
Quote:(not to say that my intentions and messages are always pure and loving, as you well know from some earlier mutual miscommunication,and some lacking in light tendencies on my part).

no problem.
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #58 - on: 07.05.2010 at 07:50 [UT+1] »Quote from butterflye on 07.05.2010 at 06:55 [UT+1]:
and Yes.

(actually I must modify my answer to this. I'm not really one to TRY to uplift anyone. I used to.. but that doesn't ring true

for me anymore. I just do what occurs naturally to me, and my focus is on relating from my heart, not to play a role for someone.)

I understand what you are saying, and i mostly agree. In my own case, it's not so much that i interact withothers with that thought on my mind in a pre-mediated or calculating manner. It's all much more spontaneousand heart oriented than that. When i talk, it's often from feeling moved from within to say this or that, and it's
all about the interaction in the moment (especially in person).
Yet, the intellectual, left brain part of me also recognizes that i came here to be an uplifting influence, andmore specifically guidance has told me something like when i once was heavily questioning the point of evenposting on forums like this, "your words have their affect whether or not you realize it at the time" Guidancethen went into the seed and uplifting analogy. So i can recognize it for what it is, and call a spade a spade in an
honest manner.
Astrologically, it's interesting to note that we have a very different, and yet similar life path trend to follow.
You have Pisces N. Node/Virgo S. Node (and Moon also in, and all in the 6th House which strengthens this).
I have Virgo N.Node/Pisces S. Node (and Moon rather connected to Neptune, Venus, and the 12th House).

Ina very basic way, this is an indication saying that you need to focus more on the heart and on intuition, rightbrain side of reality and beingness, and get away from the more thinking, analyzing, etc. side which isinherently very strong in you from other lives. It has been too strong and now it needs greater balance.
My path is to actually develop and focus more on what you're trying to sublimate until you have achieved
enough balance and strength of heart/intuition.

Opposites in other words.

So in this difference and yet similarity of paths, and the need for different developement comes different focus
and emphasis on certain ways of describing and experiencing which deep down is a similar path...
Quote:I understand. I once worked at a residential treatment facility for adolescents. I remember one girl in particular. She was a paranoid
schizophrenic. Brilliant girl, creative to the nth degree.. wrote poetry. We had a connection and she told me she trusted me, which was
unheard of for her. But she could FEEL energy, and she could tell I really cared about her. I knew how to listen. Sometimes that's all ittakes, to know someone cares and can just LISTEN to us, truly.

That's really cool! Thank you for sharing this, as it is beautiful.

You said re: group meditation with the boys i work with, Quote:oh that's cool, DJ!

Thanks. I actually got the idea out of the blue while deep in meditation. When i "heard" it, i was like "are you
kidding, they will NEVER go for that. Why are you wasting my time. " Yet, i've learned to listen to guidanceand had some measure of faith and trust in what guidance suggested i should do despite my initial doubts.
Turns out they were right, and i was wrong (as usual when we disagree.
)
They even quite liked the "toning" part (ahhommm and all that), which i thought they would think would be"weird" and stupid. Course, many of them are much more attuned to sound than most people.

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #59 - on: 07.05.2010 at 09:47 [UT+1] »I have l rising, ImMC
And I cant get my I in terms of what it means in my life. I've had some minor issues with using alcohol anddrugs for escapist reasons, and from time to time I get "artistic" (photography, playing in a band...) but it
never lasts. I dont think my carrer path has anything to do with the arts.
Could anyone have a look at my chart and give some asociations he gets from it?
The chart is in my profile.
Posts: 1331
Gender:tnx!

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #60 - on: 07.05.2010 at 11:15 [UT+1] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 06.05.2010 at 06:58 [UT+1]:
Speaking as one with Saturn, the ruling planet of my Sun Sign, at the end of Virgo and widely square Sag Neptune (ruler of my S. Node)in the 5th, well it's not easy to fully integrate and balance these two. I don't find it so wonderful or positive.
But there is a discontent that leads one on to find the true path eventually.
Sometimes i feel like i should be doing more in the creative fields. Lately i occasionally remember dreams wherein i'm playing the violin,playing the guitar, and generally creating and playing music.
I remember my last dream like this, which wasn't that long ago, maybe a few weeks or so, where i was composing this really beautiful
peace (which i vividly heard and remembered shortly after waking up), and i felt so joyful and alive doing so. I woke up thinking, "i reallyneed to learn how to play the guitar and write/read music!"
With Taurus MC--Libra Moon, and Aqua Venus opposed the Asc and almost exactly trine Libra Pluto and sextile Sag. Neptune in the 5th(trine the Asc), square Uranus, and Mars square Neptune as well, you would think it might come somewhat naturally or easy.

What's stopping me? Fear; fear of inadequacy, fear of failure, fear of lack of full or more pure
expression. Very Saturn square Neptune.

DJ, you're thinking too much about it.
I learnt to play classical guitar quite competently at the age of 10. It only takes one thing - the time anddetermination to PRACTISE. For about a year and a half, I did an hour's practice a day (yes, I'm a bit
obsessive...
)
After that, I had too much homework and my practice fell away. I don't even have a guitar any more. But it
was a good experience while it lasted. It seems you're getting guitar practice in other dimensions while yourbody is sleeping. You should pick it up easily. Go for it.

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EyesisEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #61 - on: 07.05.2010 at 11:24 [UT+1] »Sometimes meaning is placed where none is needed Serene.
I guess Neptune gives people the illusion that there is symbolism and meaning in Everything.
Sometimes a bird is simply a bird.
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banditEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #62 - on: 07.05.2010 at 11:53 [UT+1] »time is the constraint that repels us back towards the material and the "real". if our physical lifetimes were
eternal, we would have ample opportunity to delve into the symbolism of all we see and feel and yet when one
reaches outside of the time frame, then the symbolism becomes clear. the duality is constant while being in aphysical body, holding us to a pay or die scenario, and the "answer" given by the spiritual masters are all thesame, free the mind from physical restraint. the closer we get to the "freedom", the more the paradox isapparent, the chains become tighter and more persuasive.
Judas committed suicide as indication of his betrayal to Christ, yet Christ had the same fate of physical deathbut different scenario. both died at the same time and their spirits were released to ascend to heaven but only
Christ was revealed as the Saviour. without Judas this would not have been possible. what im trying to say isthat the opposites are always present, even in the enlightened state where they have become fused as one.
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Archer7

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #63 - on: 07.05.2010 at 14:56 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 07.05.2010 at 11:24 [UT+1]:
Sometimes meaning is placed where none is needed Serene.
I guess Neptune gives people the illusion that there is symbolism and meaning in Everything.
Sometimes a bird is simply a bird.

That a bird is simply a bird, the fact that you can look at a bird and ponder it, or study its nature and how it isunique from other life forms is itself something otherworldly, beyond the limits of 'bird' that an uninformed
observer might miss, or at least an indifferent one. Even what we look at, to really see it, this is not easy, andyet I think it is the best way to work with Neptune, to look at life, rather than turn away from it into an inward
symbolism. Or maybe more so to enrich inward symbolism by the truly bewildering intelligence and mysteriesof nature, or whatever one contemplates. A bird is never just a bird. A bird is also my understanding and levelof appreciation of a bird. I was nuts enough to have metaphysical leaps of wonder during physics experiments.
A fellow student called me a 'determined romantic', but I got higher marks than him so there!
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butterflye
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #64 - on: 07.05.2010 at 16:23 [UT+1] »Quote:
the closer we get to the "freedom", the more the paradox is apparent...

time constraint = time-based thinking = conceptual thinking = duality
outside of time not even symbolism remains. there's no need for a symbol to represent reality, because reality
is experienced directly, in the present moment.
Quote:
opposites are always present, even in the enlightened state where they have become fused as one.

in a way, yes. non-duality is all encompassing. but it's not so much a fusion of opposites, as it is atranscendance, a paradigm shift into a different state of awareness... beyond the sum of its parts.
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EyesisEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #65 - on: 07.05.2010 at 17:07 [UT+1] »Well a bird just now starting singing in my window. That it started singing at the time Butterflye posted in theHigher Self thread does give me something to ponder ~ or simply smile.

Archer, I used to find meaning and symbols in everything. I nearly broke down for all the meaning. There is abalance.
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banditEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #66 - on: 07.05.2010 at 17:20 [UT+1] »i seem to be attracting resistance to my posts lately. BnJ perhaps, or BmN.?
is this not delving into symbolism in asking this question?
when one can see both sides of the story and see the play for what it is, is there any action that one can takethat would further the understanding, or does the meaning of sheer folly come into focus and become an
anecdote that describes life's misery and joy.
peace
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butterflye

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #67 - on: 07.05.2010 at 17:23 [UT+1] »Quote from bandit on 07.05.2010 at 17:20 [UT+1]:
i seem to be attracting resistance to my posts lately.

is this true?
perhaps just your perception?

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banditEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #68 - on: 07.05.2010 at 17:35 [UT+1] »Quote from butterflye on 07.05.2010 at 17:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from bandit on 07.05.2010 at 17:20 [UT+1]:
i seem to be attracting resistance to my posts lately.

is this true?
perhaps just your perception?

you are right, perception
hugs
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #69 - on: 07.05.2010 at 23:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 07.05.2010 at 17:07 [UT+1]:
Well a bird just now starting singing in my window. That it started singing at the time Butterflye posted in the Higher Self thread does
give me something to ponder ~ or simply smile.

Archer, I used to find meaning and symbols in everything. I nearly broke down for all the meaning. There is a balance.

I can relate to what you are saying, yes, everything was always symbolic to me. That's why I started to try tolook 'at' life, and now I understand what you meant by letting a bird be a bird. Even you know, I worked for awhile on dream work, and came to the conclusion that it is often just best to write down my dream, and let its
meaning gradually unfold to my awareness, if it could. If not, so be it.
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Archer7
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #70 - on: 07.05.2010 at 23:51 [UT+1] »Quote from space oasis on 06.05.2010 at 16:42 [UT+1]:
Jupiter in Leo in the 12th rules my 5th house. It is sextile Sun (2nd) and Mars (10th), quincunx Uranus, and opposite North Node.
It's interesting you do writing for a living, but find physics to bring out your creativity. I'm in physics classes now and they're interesting,but it's writing that really makes me feel like I'm touching something deeper.
Yes I've been told science and arts are not that far apart, they are both creative. The realms seems to tie in closer together too for people
who are older, after they have established themselves in the orthodoxy of their field, they can start being more self-expressive andartistic. Art is the same way, after you have mastered the basics, you can go wild with your imagination. But the difference in the way
they look at things really affects the lifestyle they live, and the groups they join, etc. The division in/by society. Is this another
Saturn/Neptune manifestation that needs Uranus resolution?

I think we need all the planets, and with Uranus being my chart ruler, it really does help to at least try to think
and then thanks to Neptune tap into a state of being that births and somehow refines my thoughts. Jupiterruling your fifth, fascinating! So Neptune and Saturn in here are in Sagittarius, or are they in Capricorn? I
would say whatever your creativity is, for you, it may well have a lot to do with incarnating (Saturn) spiritualphilosophy (conjunct Neptune, ruler Jupiter of fifth in twelfth house). It's actually fantastic to be a bit of apolymath and not limit ourselves to just one realm of learning, because I think this deepens and expands both
our humanity and creativity, however this might be expressed. But if that conjunction is in Capricorn, trining
Taurus MC, yes, I'd say its definitely looking for tangible expression. Ruler Jupiter is in Leo, the natural sign of'who am I , what are my true passions) in a house where you need maybe to look into your subconscious or
inner self beyond how you shine 'out there' to know it, feel it, live it. Notice the repitition of the fifth housetheme here too as Leo is associated with the fifth house! I also agree here with Butterflye. Creativity isexpressing what really moves the heart, comes from our true passions, no matter what it is. But there is no
doubt there really is a flow between your creativity (what you do with your passions) and your career.
Ieven don't define career as mere status in the world. I define it as expressing our real aspirations as individuals
in the world, so we are co-creative rather than mere robots in the stream of society and culture.
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Archer7

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #71 - on: 08.05.2010 at 00:02 [UT+1] »Quote from bandit on 07.05.2010 at 17:20 [UT+1]:
i seem to be attracting resistance to my posts lately.

BnJ perhaps, or BmN.?

is this not delving into symbolism in asking this question?
when one can see both sides of the story and see the play for what it is, is there any action that one can take that would further theunderstanding, or does the meaning of sheer folly come into focus and become an anecdote that describes life's misery and joy.
peace

Ditto what Butterflye said. Ok I don't know much about the Jesus/Judas part as I kind of have my own tangent
and pardon, but think the bible and other religious texts got into the wrong hands and I can never know whatreally happened, and even symbolically, a lot of the stories in the bible do not inspire me (with the exception ofsome lovely insights by Jesus, and I have a thing for Joseph and Job). But bandit, really, I appreciate how you
nonetheless reflect and meditate on a lot of ideas
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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #72 - on: 08.05.2010 at 01:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Serene Sphinx on 07.05.2010 at 11:15 [UT+1]:

DJ, you're thinking too much about it.
I learnt to play classical guitar quite competently at the age of 10. It only takes one thing - the time and determination to PRACTISE. For
about a year and a half, I did an hour's practice a day (yes, I'm a bit obsessive...

)

After that, I had too much homework and my practice fell away. I don't even have a guitar any more. But it was a good experience while
it lasted. It seems you're getting guitar practice in other dimensions while your body is sleeping. You should pick it up easily. Go for it.

You're probably right Serene Sphinx, perhaps i need to just stop thinking and like the Nike motto advises,"just do it." Initialize my Mars and Earth i guess. When one has Virgo Mars square Neptune and a rather
strong Venus energy, one can be a little passive sometimes.
Re: you playing classical guitar when young, was this your idea or your parents idea for you? In any case,
how come you put it down?
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EyesisEx Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #73 - on: 08.05.2010 at 10:04 [UT+1] »Quote from Archer7 on 07.05.2010 at 23:32 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 07.05.2010 at 17:07 [UT+1]:
Well a bird just now starting singing in my window. That it started singing at the time Butterflye posted in the Higher Self
thread does give me something to ponder ~ or simply smile.

Archer, I used to find meaning and symbols in everything. I nearly broke down for all the meaning. There is a balance.

I can relate to what you are saying, yes, everything was always symbolic to me. That's why I started to try to look 'at' life, and now I
understand what you meant by letting a bird be a bird. Even you know, I worked for a while on dream work, and came to the conclusionthat it is often just best to write down my dream, and let its meaning gradually unfold to my awareness, if it could. If not, so be it.

good thoughts Archer7.
Sometimes the meanings and symbols are the illusion that must be passed. Yes I am aware of your dreams. I
too have True dreams.
I dream in sound emotions and color all the time.
IC mKmFgmIh
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IP LoggedSerene Sphinx
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #74 - on: 08.05.2010 at 12:28 [UT+1] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 08.05.2010 at 01:13 [UT+1]:
Quote from Serene Sphinx on 07.05.2010 at 11:15 [UT+1]:

DJ, you're thinking too much about it.
I learnt to play classical guitar quite competently at the age of 10. It only takes one thing - the time and determination to
PRACTISE. For about a year and a half, I did an hour's practice a day (yes, I'm a bit obsessive...

)

After that, I had too much homework and my practice fell away. I don't even have a guitar any more. But it was a goodexperience while it lasted. It seems you're getting guitar practice in other dimensions while your body is sleeping. You
should pick it up easily. Go for it.

You're probably right Serene Sphinx, perhaps i need to just stop thinking and like the Nike motto advises, "just do it." Initialize my Marsand Earth i guess. When one has Virgo Mars square Neptune and a rather strong Venus energy, one can be a little passive sometimes.
Re: you playing classical guitar when young, was this your idea or your parents idea for you? In any case, how come you put it down?

I also have a very Neptunian Mars
and a strong lazy streak. But I have Sun square Saturn which issimilar to your Capricorn Sun. The potential for self-discipline is there.
Don't you think your Saturn-Neptune square might be a soul-designed challenge to manifest your dreams, notjust think longingly about them?
I definitely wanted a guitar, don't know why really except I was just getting into pop music. Then my parents
thought I'd better have lessons so they paid a guy £1 to come to our house once a week and give me an hour's
lesson (this was c. 1970!) No-one told me to practise for an hour a day, I just wanted to. Possibly I wanted toplease my teacher. But a year or so later I went to a very academic school that gave me loads of homework to
do and the guitar-playing reduced to half an hour...and so on down.
I had a cheap guitar. Once I borrowed a friend's guitar and it sounded soooooo much better, I was tempted toplay again. But I had no money in those days to buy a better instrument. Point of story, get a really niceinstrument if you decide to give it a go. Can you read music? I was already playing recorder at school, so themusic-reading bit was halfway sorted already.

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Archer7

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #75 - on: 08.05.2010 at 16:18 [UT+1] »Eyesis, firstly
Secondly, there is a thread that ran on another forum regarding planet dreams and although I'm in there (Isuspect its one of my favorite subjects) I found it remarkable how we found synchronicity between dreams andtransits in some posts. In case you are interested, here is the link (lol, started by a member called 'Neptune
Rising')http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22664
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wanderer
Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #76 - on: 08.05.2010 at 16:42 [UT+1] »Quote from Archer7 on 08.05.2010 at 16:18 [UT+1]:
Eyesis, firstly
Secondly, there is a thread that ran on another forum regarding planet dreams and although I'm in there (I suspect its one of my favorite
subjects) I found it remarkable how we found synchronicity between dreams and transits in some posts. In case you are interested, here is

Posts: 9996

the link (lol, started by a member called 'Neptune Rising')
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22664

I seldom remember my dreams but during Neptune transits i have lucid dreams involving large luminous
coloured bodies of water that can be disturbing as it feels they may envelop me.I'm not in the dream justobserving it the scene.I understand that Neptune in transit dissolves and spiritulises.
I am a Buddhist so the illusion is what we contemplate.
I have Neptune in Libra in 10 H trine Mercury and sextile Pluto and chiron,
I can visulise with great ease in detail and have a strong imagination and am idealistic.
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butterflye

Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #77 - on: 08.05.2010 at 16:57 [UT+1] »Archer and Space Oasis,
Regarding Jupiter ruling 5th house and the general theme of 5th house and creativity, I also thought of the factthat 5th house represents FUN and playfulness. And it just struck me how fun and creativity just go hand in
hand. Right now with Mars (my chart ruler) going through my 5th house, I notice a definite increase in myability to just have fun and play. It's always there to one degree or another, because being in Leo I definitely
have this side to my personality. But lately it seems even more at the forefront.
Do you guys remember how focused we were as children while playing? And how we would get totallyconsummed by our imagination? It wasn't so much that we were playing a game, as we were IN the game,
intimately. The whole world would fall away and a magical realm would open up right before our eyes, wherecharacters came to life and we suddenly became a hero of some fantastical story.
Did you guys experience this? Or was it just me? I was an only child so I played by myself alot. My
imagination became everything...
And I notice even now that when I'm being creative there's this childlike playfulness that often accompanies it.
The feeling is so innocent and pure. We adults... often forget how to play.
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butterflye
Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #78 - on: 08.05.2010 at 17:17 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 07.05.2010 at 17:07 [UT+1]:
Well a bird just now starting singing in my window. That it started singing at the time Butterflye posted in the Higher Self thread does
give me something to ponder ~ or simply smile.

That is so cool! That's communion to me, when Spirit plays with us like that, and sends us little messages,
symbolically, that we pick up on. I notice that when I pay attention Life/Nature is always communicating withme like this. The Native Americans read signs in their environment all the time. So did many cultures aroundthe world.
I recall one day... I think it was last summer.... when I felt just out of sync with people and society in general.
With t I going through my 11th house for many years now, I've been exploring my "place" in various socialgroups. Anyway, on that day I was sitting outside and looked up in the sky to see a large flock of birds heading
west. But one bird in the group was heading in the exact opposite direction. My husband and I joked that heforgot his wallet.
But this symbolic vision/event really represented what I was going through in the
moment. Interestingly enough, in recognizing that Life was communing with me in this way made me realizethat I was not alone, ever.
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wanderer

Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #79 - on: 08.05.2010 at 18:29 [UT+1] »Quote from Bojan81 on 07.05.2010 at 09:47 [UT+1]:
I havel rising, ImMC

And I cant get my

I in terms of what it means in my life. I've had some minor issues with using alcohol and drugs for escapist reasons,and from time to time I get "artistic" (photography, playing in a band...) but it never lasts. I dont think my carrer path has anything to do

Posts: 9996

with the arts.
Could anyone have a look at my chart and give some asociations he gets from it?
The chart is in my profile.
tnx!

when Neptune is on the MC there can be confusion about the career or frequent changes in it especialy when
young.
also look to he sign.
It may be design,imagination ,healing,social work ,work in institutions,psychic arst,acting,teaching,higher
learning,jobs dealing with weather,fluids.gasses,the ocean,psychology,
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space oasis
Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #80 - on: 08.05.2010 at 20:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Archer7 on 07.05.2010 at 23:51 [UT+1]:
I think we need all the planets, and with Uranus being my chart ruler, it really does help to at least try to think and then thanks to
Neptune tap into a state of being that births and somehow refines my thoughts. Jupiter ruling your fifth, fascinating! So Neptune andSaturn in here are in Sagittarius, or are they in Capricorn? I would say whatever your creativity is, for you, it may well have a lot to do

Posts: 212

with incarnating (Saturn) spiritual philosophy (conjunct Neptune, ruler Jupiter of fifth in twelfth house). It's actually fantastic to be a bit ofa polymath and not limit ourselves to just one realm of learning, because I think this deepens and expands both our humanity andcreativity, however this might be expressed. But if that conjunction is in Capricorn, trining Taurus MC, yes, I'd say its definitely looking fortangible expression. Ruler Jupiter is in Leo, the natural sign of 'who am I , what are my true passions) in a house where you need maybe
to look into your subconscious or inner self beyond how you shine 'out there' to know it, feel it, live it. Notice the repitition of the fifthhouse theme here too as Leo is associated with the fifth house! I also agree here with Butterflye. Creativity is expressing what reallymoves the heart, comes from our true passions, no matter what it is. But there is no doubt there really is a flow between your creativity(what you do with your passions) and your career.

I even don't define career as mere status in the world. I define it as expressing ourreal aspirations as individuals in the world, so we are co-creative rather than mere robots in the stream of society and culture.

Archer7, thank you for your words. The conjunction is in Capricorn, and my Saturn is not afflicted (even trinesD), so I enjoy a kind of confidence in myself in that sense despite the confusion I feel. I know that once I
choose, I will do it. Being a Libra and Gemini Mars, choosing is hard!
I don't think of career as status either,more like how we expand on our skills and passions to support ourselves, monetarily, spiritually, emotional, so
on. I have spent many hours listening and simply enjoying the company of people who seem to epitomize allthat I want to be, but know I am not-- a Sagittarian/Piscean musician. The sheer amount of Sags I've met
recently, combined with the fact they all want to just play music and be happy-- is letting me know a lot more
about my own aspirations. Being in the spotlight is definitely not for me. I love groups and teamwork, howcomplicated and wondrous human nature can become when we all intermingle.
"When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world. I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried
to change my nation. When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn'tchange the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family. Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing
I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an
impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could havechanged the nation and I could indeed have changed the world." - Unknown monk
How powerful and devoted! Brotherhood and hope seems to go hand in hand. I am a Leo Rising w/ Aquarius
N.Node. You are an Aquarius Rising. How interesting! I'd much rather than a competitive society, live in a cocreative one.
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space oasis

Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #81 - on: 08.05.2010 at 20:53 [UT+1] »butterflye,
Yes! I definitely do remember how all-consuming it was to have fun. Fun was serious business!
interrupt it.
Posts: 212

You did NOT

I have fun in a lot of things I do, even in laboratory classes where most people are expected to be serious(lybored). I feel like people think I'm taking things too lightly or even being irreverent because when I enjoy
myself, I'm child-like in my enthusiasm. I played a lot of imagination games with my cousins growing up where
we would act things out, play out stories and conquer foes! We had umbrellas as wands, and constructedhouses out of hanging sheets, etc. I don't play like that anymore, but I certainly won't forget it!
Sometimes it seems like fun gets in the way of productivity, and so we stop playing. The 5th to 6th housetransition doesn't have to be a miserable one, but we take ourselves too seriously sometimes.

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ClouderMember

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #82 - on: 09.05.2010 at 05:23 [UT+1] »I think it depends on the native who chooses how to deal with the energy. If she/he keeps daydreaming, or notaware of the reality, then an illusion; if she/he knows both reality and goal, and keeps approaching to it, it is afaith kept.

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Ex Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #83 - on: 11.05.2010 at 04:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Serene Sphinx on 08.05.2010 at 12:28 [UT+1]:
I also have a very Neptunian Mars

and a strong lazy streak. But I have Sun square Saturn which is similar to your Capricorn Sun.

The potential for self-discipline is there.
Don't you think your Saturn-Neptune square might be a soul-designed challenge to manifest your dreams, not just think longingly aboutthem?
I definitely wanted a guitar, don't know why really except I was just getting into pop music. Then my parents thought I'd better havelessons so they paid a guy £1 to come to our house once a week and give me an hour's lesson (this was c. 1970!) No-one told me topractise for an hour a day, I just wanted to. Possibly I wanted to please my teacher. But a year or so later I went to a very academic
school that gave me loads of homework to do and the guitar-playing reduced to half an hour...and so on down.
I had a cheap guitar. Once I borrowed a friend's guitar and it sounded soooooo much better, I was tempted to play again. But I had nomoney in those days to buy a better instrument. Point of story, get a really nice instrument if you decide to give it a go. Can you readmusic? I was already playing recorder at school, so the music-reading bit was halfway sorted already.

That's so cool that you had a passion to play guitar so young. I can see why you put it down though. Thankyou for the explanation etc.
Thank you for the advice as well. (no, can't read music.)
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Pistacia
Member

Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #84 - on: 02.06.2010 at 18:01 [UT+1] »Quote from Clouder on 09.05.2010 at 05:23 [UT+1]:
I think it depends on the native who chooses how to deal with the energy. If she/he keeps daydreaming, or not aware of the reality, thenan illusion; if she/he knows both reality and goal, and keeps approaching to it, it is a faith kept.

Very good reminder clouder
Posts: 2187
Gender:

For long i was dreaming, thinking of ways to help and surprise someone and pay back favors she has done tome and those i love.
She's going through a rough time now.
I was imagining, thinking, creating the idea for weeks until few days ago i talked about it (again) withpeople and somehow they were now really excited. Suddenly i had great ideas.
It triggered all these dreams i thought about come "alive" eventually and now we have gotten the project
started and it feels just wonderful. Perhaps it's the Uranus transiting in 0 Aries too conj. Jupiter.
Natally i have Saturn retrograde so perhaps i needed Saturn to turn direct and Neptune go retrograde as wellThis teached me that it's not so hard to engourage people i thought it is, behind my dreams..it's really simple.
I just need to explain the intention, the reason why i'm dreaming and hoping. Then people either support or
don't.
I could never do this project alone so support of the few people was is important to me..i'm sure it will pay off
once finished i hope.
I'm kind of enjoying taking the lead in something for once, driven by a dream even if it's not anything big

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Pistacia

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Re: Neptune: illusion and faith« Reply #85 - on: 17.06.2010 at 01:36 [UT+1] »Hey all, this was the fun article of Neptune, very much related to the Illusion part.
http://koti.mbnet.fi/neptunia/essays/nepesc1.
You are always influenced by your surroundings.
"Associating with other people is one way of completely changing your horoscope and your life...", said Carl

Posts: 2187
Gender:Payne Tobey.
If others constantly refuse to see you or project their own problems (and even the problems of collective
nature) onto you, it is bound to have an impact on you no matter how hard you try to avoid it. And thenastrologers say that Neptunians have identity problems. Who wouldn't have being treated as a mirror thatreflects anyone looking into it?
Some Neptunians, succumbing to the pressure of all those false interpretations and projections, lose finally
their mental balance. Others try to work through it all by helping even other people to clear up their identity
problems and to bear their burdens:"My mom had the breakdown for the family, and I went into therapy for all of us", said Carrie Fisher (SunNeptune conjunction).

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