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Who is 'highly evolved'? (Read 5926 times)

Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Who is 'highly evolved'?
« on: 30.06.2009 at 16:12 [UT+1] »Some astrologers use descriptions like "highly evolved"; some astrologers say that a planet in exaltation
represents people who are "highly evolved".
I prefer the astrologer who said:"I do not accept any of this. I have never met any 'highly evolved' people; or, if I have, then they will havetaken care not to let me know about it. In any case, this is not a language I would use...It could be quite
dangerous to assume that one was 'highly evolved', just as it is ridiculous to imagine oneself to be important."
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language

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #1 - on: 30.06.2009 at 16:21 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:12 [UT+1]:
Some astrologers use descriptions like "highly evolved"; some astrologers say that a planet in exaltation represents people who are"highly evolved".

Who says this?
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #2 - on: 30.06.2009 at 16:24 [UT+1] »Quote from language on 30.06.2009 at 16:21 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:12 [UT+1]:
Some astrologers use descriptions like "highly evolved"; some astrologers say that a planet in exaltation represents people
who are "highly evolved".

Who says this?

Martin Seymour-Smith, The New Astrologer c 1981
McMillan Publishing
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language

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #3 - on: 30.06.2009 at 17:09 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:24 [UT+1]:

Martin Seymour-Smith, The New Astrologer c 1981
McMillan Publishing

Does he say why, Is this just exaltations or rulerships as well?
I've never heard of him.
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Thothy Stew
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #4 - on: 30.06.2009 at 17:27 [UT+1] »Perhaps the meaning is from a karmic perspective.

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vertex

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #5 - on: 30.06.2009 at 17:40 [UT+1] »I knew someone with four exalted planets and he was far from evolved. He was total asshole, actually!!

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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #6 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:01 [UT+1] »Quote from language on 30.06.2009 at 17:09 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:24 [UT+1]:

Martin Seymour-Smith, The New Astrologer c 1981
McMillan Publishing

Does he say why, Is this just exaltations or rulerships as well?
I've never heard of him.

I don't understand your question. To me it is self-evident "I have never met any 'highly evolved' people"
Never again can you say that you've never heard of him.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #7 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Thothy Stew on 30.06.2009 at 17:27 [UT+1]:
Perhaps the meaning is from a karmic perspective.

'the meaning'? What meaning?
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QuerianMember

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #8 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:38 [UT+1] »I think we all naturally evolve and grow into our charts. I don't think we are born expressing our highest
possible nature, but I think of this in terms of vibrational scales and as we get clearer and more conscious wevibrate at a higher level and are more highly evolved.
But I don't think you can tell how evolved a person is by looking at their chart. I think there is a possible rangeof expression for any natal chart that runs the gamut of human expression from low to high.
Evolutionary astrologers talk like this but from a long term sense of reincarnation, not a static sense, at least
Posts: 3217
Gender:that is how I understand it. If you don't believe in reincarnation then it really is a stretch to consider, isn't it?

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IP Loggedleigha9

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #9 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1] »I agree with SaturnLover here,
I have known many people who are highly evolved, many many actaully. I have also known many who dont
seem to quite be there yet.

Posts: 1859

And i dont think that you can see it neccessarily in a chart. I would like to know if you could though, but iwouldnt know where to look.

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Gene Ray
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #10 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:49 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:12 [UT+1]:
Some astrologers use descriptions like "highly evolved"; some astrologers say that a planet in exaltation represents people who are"highly evolved".
I prefer the astrologer who said:

Posts: 3329
Gender:"I do not accept any of this. I have never met any 'highly evolved' people; or, if I have, then they will have taken care not to let meknow about it. In any case, this is not a language I would use...It could be quite dangerous to assume that one was 'highly evolved', justas it is ridiculous to imagine oneself to be important."

Hello Stephen
I tend to agree with you on this one. Many years ago I met a woman (a mother with her own home and aquite normal family. I had barely any experience with Astrology at that time. I was introduced to her througha college friend. She read my palm and introduced me to numerology and lent me a book so that I could see
what it said about me and my number.
From reading my palm she said that I was "an old soul who would be able to choose whether to re-incarnate.
From the book I found that my number was "33" and the description for 33 was something like “leader of aworld religious movement (maybe an anti religious movement) but the book (probably written in the 1950's)
said the world was not yet ready for a 33.
So all of this sounds so impressive but since I am an atheist and do not believe in a soul or reincarnation I find
all this a little much and do not place any serious meaning to any of this. To me this all is more myth .
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Penguin Trauma

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #11 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:50 [UT+1] »Silly question(s), but what is a 'highly evolved' person supposed to be like? Highly evolved in what way?
What's the definition here? Are we talking 'Tibetan Monk' type evolved? Or something else?
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IP Loggedramez nas
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #12 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:51 [UT+1] »I don't think too many highly evolved (whatever that means) spirits reincarnate in this planet which has the
disadvantage of amnesia. So even if you are highly evolved, you don't know it as you simply forget that.
I guess living in this planet has its special purposes and probably has some highly evolved souls ie. those who
can see their and others' higher purposes and can help achieving them, or putting the common spirit on ahigher level, but I don't see this planet as highly evolving, I believe it's sort of a spiritual kindergarten and willremain so. So those who learnt everything they can gain from here go to live in other worlds.
So I see questions like this (+ questions like 'do you think I spent my between lives time on Pluto?') as
despereate people trying to find some area where they can stand out of the crowd*. And my true answer tothese questions: Who the f*** cares anyway? Will 'knowing' the answer lessen the price of milk or bread? Will itheal my relative dying in cancer? Will it make my or others' life any easier?
*Sorry about that, Stephen, I didn't mean in the context you asked this question.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #13 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:54 [UT+1] »Quote from SaturnLover on 30.06.2009 at 18:38 [UT+1]:
I think we all naturally evolve and grow into our charts. I don't think we are born expressing our highest possible nature, but I think of thisin terms of vibrational scales and as we get clearer and more conscious we vibrate at a higher level and are more highly evolved.
But I don't think you can tell how evolved a person is by looking at their chart. I think there is a possible range of expression for any natal
chart that runs the gamut of human expression from low to high.
Evolutionary astrologers talk like this but from a long term sense of reincarnation, not a static sense, at least that is how I understand it.
If you don't believe in reincarnation then it really is a stretch to consider, isn't it?

I do believe in reincarnation, but I don't believe people who identify 'highly evolved" souls as has been
explained. Some karmic astrologers are karmic astrologers so they do not have to put their methods to thetest.
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #14 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:56 [UT+1] »Quote from leigha9 on 30.06.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1]:
I agree with SaturnLover here,
I have known many people who are highly evolved, many many actaully. I have also known many who dont seem to quite be there yet.
And i dont think that you can see it neccessarily in a chart. I would like to know if you could though, but i wouldnt know where to look.

Rest assured there are astrologers who say you can.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #15 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:56 [UT+1] »Quote from Penguin Trauma on 30.06.2009 at 18:50 [UT+1]:
Silly question(s), but what is a 'highly evolved' person supposed to be like? Highly evolved in what way?
What's the definition here? Are we talking 'Tibetan Monk' type evolved? Or something else?

Exactly. That's the whole point.
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solarwind
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #16 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:57 [UT+1] »there is no doubt that there are higher evolved souls... if someone didnt meet them it doesnt mean they dont
exist
but i wouldnt use the astrology to identify one though....

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #17 - on: 30.06.2009 at 18:57 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez nas on 30.06.2009 at 18:51 [UT+1]:
I don't think too many highly evolved (whatever that means) spirits reincarnate in this planet which has the disadvantage of amnesia. Soeven if you are highly evolved, you don't know it as you simply forget that.
I guess living in this planet has its special purposes and probably has some highly evolved souls ie. those who can see their and others'
higher purposes and can help achieving them, or putting the common spirit on a higher level, but I don't see this planet as highly evolving,
I believe it's sort of a spiritual kindergarten and will remain so. So those who learnt everything they can gain from here go to live in otherworlds.

Sounds good to me.
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IP Loggedleigha9
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #18 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:04 [UT+1] »It is interesting that alot of you dont believe in an evolved soul. If you believe in reincarnation adn karma, wellthen it is just normal to evolve, learn, and grow with every life. right? If you dont believe in reincarnation thanthat is just a whole different story.
I dont think I know evolved souls, I know that i do. And i am very aware when a soul is not very evolved, or are
young still in there souls life.. doesnt make them any less important or a bad person, just younger, still alot of
lessons to learn.
Posts: 1859

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IP Loggedleigha9

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #19 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 18:57 [UT+1]:
Quote from ramez nas on 30.06.2009 at 18:51 [UT+1]:
I don't think too many highly evolved (whatever that means) spirits reincarnate in this planet which has the disadvantage
of amnesia. So even if you are highly evolved, you don't know it as you simply forget that.
I guess living in this planet has its special purposes and probably has some highly evolved souls ie. those who can see theirand others' higher purposes and can help achieving them, or putting the common spirit on a higher level, but I don't see
this planet as highly evolving, I believe it's sort of a spiritual kindergarten and will remain so. So those who learnt
everything they can gain from here go to live in other worlds.

Posts: 1859
Sounds good to me.

Haha i like this idea too - this is earth after all.. you know grounded and earthy.. I do think that eventually weevolve to different worlds, or perhaps no world at all
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Virgo Dei
Genetrix
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #20 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:09 [UT+1] »I have heard/read in various places (I cannot remember any titles/authors at the moment) about therelationship between exhalted planets and "degree of being highly evolved" as well. However, I also think it's
basically bunk. I definately don't think a "highly evolved" person would admit to such or give any impression ofthat.
I tend to agree with most of what comes from the Evolutionary Astrology group. However, I don't think they
use the term "highly evolved"... I think what I remember is more of indicators of people who are "old soul"types... or more experienced in dealing with a certain aspect of living than others. But, the "more experienced"
doesn't necessarily translate into "highly evolved" and, in fact, I remember reading some of Jeff Green's books
wherein he points out indicators in the chart that show how a person can be "quite experienced" with a certain"pattern" but they just aren't getting it-- indicators like the nodes, I think? that show that they areexperiencing in this life a repeat of the pattern because they didn't get it the first time or two around, yk?

Posts: 4677

I once read an astrology book that detailed each signs "lower" and "higher" expressions and I found that VERYinteresting and true. Most amateur books about Tauruses (I have a Taurus sun) depict us a rather boring,somewhat crude, materialistic, etc. But this book (and I wish I could remember the title!!!) depicted what the"more spiritually evolved" type of Taurus would look like and I found that very insightful! Not saying that I'm"highly evolved" or anything but, I've definately never been materialistic or concerned with money in theslightest. I can definately relate to some of the more mundane or common aspects of Taurus as well.
very stubborn and probably boring, too.

I can beAnyway, I would like to see a discussion wherein there was a comparison between the more base and the morerefined qualities of each sign in the zodiac.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #21 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:36 [UT+1] »Quote from Juliet Morgan on 30.06.2009 at 19:09 [UT+1]:
I have heard/read in various places (I cannot remember any titles/authors at the moment) about the relationship between exhalted
planets and "degree of being highly evolved" as well. However, I also think it's basically bunk. I definately don't think a "highly evolved"
person would admit to such or give any impression of that.
I tend to agree with most of what comes from the Evolutionary Astrology group. However, I don't think they use the term "highly
evolved"... I think what I remember is more of indicators of people who are "old soul" types... or more experienced in dealing with acertain aspect of living than others. But, the "more experienced" doesn't necessarily translate into "highly evolved" and, in fact, I
remember reading some of Jeff Green's books wherein he points out indicators in the chart that show how a person can be "quite
experienced" with a certain "pattern" but they just aren't getting it-- indicators like the nodes, I think? that show that they areexperiencing in this life a repeat of the pattern because they didn't get it the first time or two around, yk?
I once read an astrology book that detailed each signs "lower" and "higher" expressions and I found that VERY interesting and true. Most
amateur books about Tauruses (I have a Taurus sun) depict us a rather boring, somewhat crude, materialistic, etc. But this book (and I
wish I could remember the title!!!) depicted what the "more spiritually evolved" type of Taurus would look like and I found that very
insightful! Not saying that I'm "highly evolved" or anything but, I've definately never been materialistic or concerned with money in theslightest. I can definately relate to some of the more mundane or common aspects of Taurus as well. I can be very stubborn and probably
boring, too.
Anyway, I would like to see a discussion wherein there was a comparison between the more base and the more refined qualities of eachsign in the zodiac.

Yes any book where the author describes what the author thinks is exemplary behavior sounds worthwhile tome, but that is not same as speculating about otherworldly status that cannot be verified and is highly unlikely.
Discussion of ethics and virtue is very worthwhile.
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IP Loggedramez nas
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #22 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:37 [UT+1] »Quote from leigha9 on 30.06.2009 at 19:06 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 18:57 [UT+1]:
Quote from ramez nas on 30.06.2009 at 18:51 [UT+1]:
I don't think too many highly evolved (whatever that means) spirits reincarnate in this planet which has the
disadvantage of amnesia. So even if you are highly evolved, you don't know it as you simply forget that.
I guess living in this planet has its special purposes and probably has some highly evolved souls ie. those
who can see their and others' higher purposes and can help achieving them, or putting the common spirit ona higher level, but I don't see this planet as highly evolving, I believe it's sort of a spiritual kindergarten andwill remain so. So those who learnt everything they can gain from here go to live in other worlds.

Sounds good to me.

Haha i like this idea too - this is earth after all.. you know grounded and earthy.. I do think that eventually we evolve to different worlds,
or perhaps no world at all

I once read that even the North American Indians' highly evolved culture 'wasn't allowed' to win over ourmaterialistic world, as high spirituality was not planned in the Earth's future.
I believe that we 'pop in' the Earth for very different purposes. Some of us knows more, some less, but we are
equal that we can only learn between the frames of this 'heavy' planet. Just like kids arriving at school with very
different backgrounds and experiences, but they have to obey the same rules and meet the same requirements.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #23 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:39 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez nas on 30.06.2009 at 19:37 [UT+1]:
Quote from leigha9 on 30.06.2009 at 19:06 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 18:57 [UT+1]:
Quote from ramez nas on 30.06.2009 at 18:51 [UT+1]:
I don't think too many highly evolved (whatever that means) spirits reincarnate in this planet
which has the disadvantage of amnesia. So even if you are highly evolved, you don't know it as
you simply forget that.
I guess living in this planet has its special purposes and probably has some highly evolved souls
ie. those who can see their and others' higher purposes and can help achieving them, or putting
the common spirit on a higher level, but I don't see this planet as highly evolving, I believe it'ssort of a spiritual kindergarten and will remain so. So those who learnt everything they can gainfrom here go to live in other worlds.

Sounds good to me.

Haha i like this idea too - this is earth after all.. you know grounded and earthy.. I do think that eventually we evolve todifferent worlds, or perhaps no world at all

I once read that even the North American Indians' highly evolved culture 'wasn't allowed' to win over our materialistic world, as highspirituality was not planned in the Earth's future.
I believe that we 'pop in' the Earth for very different purposes. Some of us knows more, some less, but we are equal that we can only
learn between the frames of this 'heavy' planet. Just like kids arriving at school with very different backgrounds and experiences.

I accept that there might be higher beings among us, but they are not so numerous as exalted planetaryplacement, and astrologers are not privvy to their whereabouts.
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Jeanette
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #24 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:40 [UT+1] »Some people only have two wisdom teeth. Since it is (I think) generally agreed that wisdom teeth are no longer
required by humans maybe those without them are more evolved...who knows...How is it helpful to tellsomeone that they are 'highly evolved' first of all if someone is highly evolved they probably don't need to be
told . It seems like those who use this term are really just saying that they believe themselves to be in aposition to pass judgement in such matters which is very scarey. A symptom of know-it-all disease orsomething.
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IP Loggedleigha9

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #25 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:46 [UT+1] »Quote from Jeanette on 30.06.2009 at 19:40 [UT+1]:
Some people only have two wisdom teeth. Since it is (I think) generally agreed that wisdom teeth are no longer required by humans
maybe those without them are more evolved...who knows...How is it helpful to tell someone that they are 'highly evolved' first of all if
someone is highly evolved they probably don't need to be told . It seems like those who use this term are really just saying that they
believe themselves to be in a position to pass judgement in such matters which is very scarey. A symptom of know-it-all disease orsomething.

Posts: 1859

Haha I dont have any wisdom teeth! perhaps I am super evolved!
I understand what you are saying, if someone was walking around saying that they were highly evolved humanbeings, well than i probably wouldnt believe them. I like the term Juliet used 'Old Soul'

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language
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #26 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:53 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 18:01 [UT+1]:
Quote from language on 30.06.2009 at 17:09 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:24 [UT+1]:

Martin Seymour-Smith, The New Astrologer c 1981
McMillan Publishing

Does he say why, Is this just exaltations or rulerships as well?
I've never heard of him.

I don't understand your question. To me it is self-evident "I have never met any 'highly evolved' people"
Never again can you say that you've never heard of him.

My question relates to the ''Essential Digntites''.
As to highly evolved, i'd probably run it by a neuro-biologist.
Are you seeking some kind of redemption here Stephen?

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #27 - on: 30.06.2009 at 19:57 [UT+1] »Quote from language on 30.06.2009 at 19:53 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 18:01 [UT+1]:
Quote from language on 30.06.2009 at 17:09 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:24 [UT+1]:

Martin Seymour-Smith, The New Astrologer c 1981
McMillan Publishing

Does he say why, Is this just exaltations or rulerships as well?
I've never heard of him.

I don't understand your question. To me it is self-evident "I have never met any 'highly evolved' people"
Never again can you say that you've never heard of him.

My question relates to the ''Essential Digntites''.
As to highly evolved, i'd probably run it by a neuro-biologist.
Are you seeking some kind of redemption here Stephen?

Playing games is easier than astrology. So you play games.
You talk nonsense, so I ask you what you meant.
Then you act like I asked for advice.
You've donethat from the moment you arrived, and there are few people who will be favorably impressed. But
if I'm wrong, good for you.
You do not use any cogent sentences, but you stuff the ones you do use with buzzwords. This confusion willcause some people to notice you, and you get the pay off: The center of attention. Massive passiveagressive syndrome. Massive inferiority complex. A huge ball of hostility about the size of a major
planet is my guess. Do I want more of the same? Not at all; maybe others will be warned too.
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solarwind
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #28 - on: 30.06.2009 at 21:16 [UT+1] »did you have any statistical study on the correlation between the presence of the essential dignity planets in thechart and elevated soul individuals?

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SeaGoat72

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #29 - on: 30.06.2009 at 21:19 [UT+1] »Quote:
Who is 'highly evolved'?

Astrologically - I have no knowledge and thus do not know the answer to this question.
Existentially, one can certainly observe different levels of development, evolution and involution in people.
I consider a person "evolved" if he or she can think out of the box, and does not follow the collective
unconscious (stereotypical thinking).
I suppose an "evolved" person has a very strong personal ethics (which is very different from the generic, static
societal or any religious morals) and is capable of applying it dynamically and creatively to different life
situations and experiences.
Persona charts prompt how complex our personalities are, very diverse. We are sort of "spread" across various
levels of development. We possess both low and high natures and act on them accordingly. Sometimes low canoutweigh the high. Sometimes our mental abilities are inferiour to the spiritual and emotional development,
and we follow our intuition rather than logic. Sometimes mental capacities are much stronger, one may end up
being a brilliant scientist totally oblivious to the ethical aspects of own work.
Following this logic, a highly evolved individual would not necessarily be a monk or a saint, but a person morein tune with planetary energies and capable of balancing the inner conflict. Or in Jung's terms, more capable ofbringing the shadow material into the light of the consciousness. Their attention can travel easier to the"above" to be experienced here in "below". Many esoteric traditions (and also Vedic and Buddhist perspectives)would stress to experience in contrast to having a purely intellectual understanding of things.
If you have once met a person who could honestly admit own faults without beating oneself up, getting bitter
about life, blaming all around for difficulties and unfairness, perhaps this is an example of "evolving".

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IP Loggedleigha9
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #30 - on: 30.06.2009 at 21:30 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 30.06.2009 at 21:19 [UT+1]:
Quote:
Who is 'highly evolved'?

Astrologically - I have no knowledge and thus do not know the answer to this question.
Existentially, one can certainly observe different levels of development, evolution and involution in people.

Posts: 1859

I consider a person "evolved" if he or she can think out of the box, and does not follow the collective unconscious (stereotypical thinking).
I suppose an "evolved" person has a very strong personal ethics (which is very different from the generic, static societal or any religious
morals) and is capable of applying it dynamically and creatively to different life situations and experiences.
Persona charts prompt how complex our personalities are, very diverse. We are sort of "spread" across various levels of development. We
possess both low and high natures and act on them accordingly. Sometimes low can outweigh the high. Sometimes our mental abilities areinferiour to the spiritual and emotional development, and we follow our intuition rather than logic. Sometimes mental capacities are muchstronger, one may end up being a brilliant scientist totally oblivious to the ethical aspects of own work.
Following this logic, a highly evolved individual would not necessarily be a monk or a saint, but a person more in tune with planetaryenergies and capable of balancing the inner conflict. Or in Jung's terms, more capable of bringing the shadow material into the light of the
consciousness. Their attention can travel easier to the "above" to be experienced here in "below". Many esoteric traditions (and also Vedic
and Buddhist perspectives) would stress to experience in contrast to having a purely intellectual understanding of things.
If you have once met a person who could honestly admit own faults without beating oneself up, getting bitter about life, blaming all
around for difficulties and unfairness, perhaps this is an example of "evolving".

Yes this is put into such good words- my merc in pisc doesn't allow me to do so usually! Haha so I'm glad
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #31 - on: 30.06.2009 at 21:48 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 30.06.2009 at 21:16 [UT+1]:
did you have any statistical study on the correlation between the presence of the essential dignity planets in the chart and elevated soulindividuals?

You didn't read correctly.
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Thothy Stew
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #32 - on: 30.06.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1] »Exalted planets poorly situated can make for highly evolved a**holes, the top class kind that pi** everyone off.
Who says highly evolved means "good"?

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language

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #33 - on: 30.06.2009 at 22:19 [UT+1] »[quote author=Stephen Baxter link=1246374725/20#27 date=1246388237
Quote:
Playing games is easier than astrology. So you play games.
You talk nonsense, so I ask you what you meant.
Then you act like I asked for advice.
You've done that from the moment you arrived, and there are few people who will be favorably impressed. But if I'm wrong, good foryou.
You do not use any cogent sentences, but you stuff the ones you do use with buzzwords. This confusion will cause some people to notice
you, and you get the pay off: The center of attention. Massive passive-agressive syndrome. Massive inferiority complex. A hugeball of hostility about the size of a major planet is my guess. Do I want more of the same? Not at all; maybe others will be warnedtoo

For the third time this is what I meant:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html
If it's the first time you have seen something like this then yes I would have been confusing you.
Your question probably relates to the arrival of Hindu ideas into astrology in the 2nd part of the 19th century,these had some unfortunate consequences for the subject and arguably the world as some of this eugenicist
thinking permeated into the ideologies of the Third Reich.
Particularly in America where Evolutionary (Theosophical) astrology is more popular/endemic the notion of soulevolution remains thus the embracement of the notion of past lives and how the chart can provide clues as tothis/these. It may be some of these types of astrologers are sympathetic to the idea of a more dignified chart
providing clues as to where you are on the ladder to Nirvana. Although this kind of language takes me backmore to Blavatsky and co. I'm afraid I find a lot of this ''astrology'' a bit mind numbing so avoid it. Rudhyar
stretched my incredulity more than enough.
Ps-

A more astute therapist would focus on your use of the ‘bold’ amongst other things. I'm not to bothered

about being 'noticed' just throwing in a bit of history and context here and there for those who might beinterested in it or even discussing any of it. If you're not interested in this then fair enough, but the agony aunt
transactional analysis might be best kept closer to home.
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SeaGoat72
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #34 - on: 30.06.2009 at 22:19 [UT+1] »Quote from Thothy Stew on 30.06.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1]:
Exalted planets poorly situated can make for highly evolved a**holes, the top class kind that pi** everyone off. Who says highly evolvedmeans "good"?

You are probably right. But then again, not doing "good" is probably involution rather than evolution?
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Thothy Stew

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #35 - on: 30.06.2009 at 22:28 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 30.06.2009 at 22:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from Thothy Stew on 30.06.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1]:
Exalted planets poorly situated can make for highly evolved a**holes, the top class kind that pi** everyone off. Who says
highly evolved means "good"?

You are probably right. But then again, not doing "good" is probably involution rather than evolution?

That would depend on your perspective. If someone believes the end justifies the means, they would likely
disagree with your notion.

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September-

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?

Morning« Reply #36 - on: 30.06.2009 at 22:38 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Stephen, What do you think of Carl Jung's belief that an astrologer( I would also include any medium, using
tarot, channeling,etc) isn't able to read a person who is of a higher consciousness then the reader?
The astrologer can only interpret the chart to their own level of consciousness and knowledge.
I don't know if this is from his personal experience with astrologers.
Great post Stephen, really makes on think
Thank you

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SeaGoat72

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #37 - on: 30.06.2009 at 22:48 [UT+1] »Quote from Thothy Stew on 30.06.2009 at 22:28 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 30.06.2009 at 22:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from Thothy Stew on 30.06.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1]:
Exalted planets poorly situated can make for highly evolved a**holes, the top class kind that pi** everyone
off. Who says highly evolved means "good"?

You are probably right. But then again, not doing "good" is probably involution rather than evolution?
That would depend on your perspective. If someone believes the ends justify the means, they would likely disagree with your notion.

Yes, this is rather complicated. Esoterics talk about "white" and "black" teachers.
But you think "badly placed" "poorly situated" clarifies the matter?
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #38 - on: 30.06.2009 at 22:51 [UT+1] »Quote from September-Morning on 30.06.2009 at 22:38 [UT+1]:
Stephen, What do you think of Carl Jung's belief that an astrologer( I would also include any medium, using tarot, channeling,etc) isn't
able to read a person who is of a higher consciousness then the reader?
The astrologer can only interpret the chart to their own level of consciousness and knowledge.
I don't know if this is from his personal experience with astrologers.
Great post Stephen, really makes on think
Thank youSounds plausible to me if you are referring to higher conciousness in a more practical sense. I assume Jung
was not in the same breath rating the level of soul evolution, but was referring instead to observable featuresof behavior and speech. A state of conciousness rated by those observable features is certainly plausible to me.
I think many of us possess enough intelligence and insight to judge the state of conciousness of the people we
encounter to a lesser and greater degree. But its is a very different thing to speculate or see successful soul
evolvement in the chart.
Since I do believe in reincarnation, there may be some indicator in the chart, but I am not convinced that any
astrologer has yet discovered it.
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language

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #39 - on: 30.06.2009 at 22:56 [UT+1] »Quote from September-Morning on 30.06.2009 at 22:38 [UT+1]:
Stephen, What do you think of Carl Jung's belief that an astrologer( I would also include any medium, using tarot, channeling,etc) isn't
able to read a person who is of a higher consciousness then the reader?
The astrologer can only interpret the chart to their own level of consciousness and knowledge.
I don't know if this is from his personal experience with astrologers.

Where did Jung say this?
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Thothy Stew
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #40 - on: 30.06.2009 at 23:18 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 30.06.2009 at 22:48 [UT+1]:
Quote from Thothy Stew on 30.06.2009 at 22:28 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 30.06.2009 at 22:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from Thothy Stew on 30.06.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1]:
Exalted planets poorly situated can make for highly evolved a**holes, the top class kind thatpi** everyone off. Who says highly evolved means "good"?

You are probably right. But then again, not doing "good" is probably involution rather than evolution?
That would depend on your perspective. If someone believes the ends justify the means, they would likely disagree withyour notion.

Yes, this is rather complicated. Esoterics talk about "white" and "black" teachers.
But you think "badly placed" "poorly situated" clarifies the matter?

Yes, I think so. A planet can be poised to have its drives realized beautifully but if it answers to a poorly placed
dispositior than you may not ever know about the dignified planet by someone's normal behavior, as the
dignified planet's ends are achieved through less than noble means.
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September-Morning

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #41 - on: 01.07.2009 at 00:11 [UT+1] »Stephen, Wouldn't you think that ones level of consciousness is determined by what is within ones soul?
If we bring reincarnation into the equation of ones soul and consciousness then I feel that theknowledge,experiences etc. from past lives within ones soul is what determines the level of consciousness the
person is capable of reaching.
I don't see them as separate entities.
soul + consciousness/spirit
Thank you Stephen
Language,
I remember reading a few of Jung's works years ago, "Man and His Symbols" ,also his book on dreams,
another about alchemy, collective unconscious , and I'm sure anything on astrology.
I remember this very clearly because I've always wondered when a great one incarnates, like Jung (in theirearlier years, before fame) and on their journey goes for some type of reading , because I've never heard orread that the reader saw the person leaving their mark on history.
If some ancient writings that were left to us are true about the famous ones, it then seems that the mediumsof old where much more accurate on a persons destiny.

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SeptemberMorning

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #42 - on: 01.07.2009 at 00:18 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Another thought, Even though most of us will not leave our mark on this planet by name, I do feel that thisJung theory applies to many who are incarnate today.
Our planet is loaded with ancient souls that incarnated for the change/changes that are before us, and are
spiritually prepared as I write this.

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #43 - on: 01.07.2009 at 00:28 [UT+1] »Quote from September-Morning on 01.07.2009 at 00:18 [UT+1]:
Another thought, Even though most of us will not leave our mark on this planet by name, I do feel that this Jung theory applies to many
who are incarnate today.
Our planet is loaded with ancient souls that incarnated for the change/changes that are before us, and are spiritually prepared as I write
this.

Yes I believe in reincarnation, and it stands to reason that there are stages or levels of soul development. It isrational to speculate based one's behavior, output, productivity or achievement. It is inevititable that somepeople will be judged advanced based on observable data and rational judgement. In fact, it is probably
worthwhile.
Personally, I think most people alive will have a rough go in this life, and are seriously flawed in one way or
another. When I see an "evolved person" (someone indesputably advanced in state of conciousness), then I willreconsider. Elsewhere I gave the highest praise to Paul Newman, and I am inclined to do so, but I still do notthink a feature like "exalted" planets is the key.
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Thothy Stew
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #44 - on: 01.07.2009 at 00:38 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 01.07.2009 at 00:28 [UT+1]:
Personally, I think most people alive will have a rough go in this life, and are seriously flawed in one way or another. When I see an"evolved person" (someone indesputably advanced in state of conciousness), then I will reconsider. Elsewhere I gave the highest praise to
Paul Newman, and I am inclined to do so, but I still do not think a feature like "exalted" planets is the key.

I agree. Not only exaltations, but you also have dominion, terms, triplicity rulers, faces, sect, angularity,
quality, gender, reception, aspects, and elements to consider. An exalted planet can indicate "higher evolution"over one person or another, but is only one factor among many to consider.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #45 - on: 01.07.2009 at 00:39 [UT+1] »Quote from September-Morning on 01.07.2009 at 00:11 [UT+1]:
Stephen, Wouldn't you think that ones level of consciousness is determined by what is within ones soul?
If we bring reincarnation into the equation of ones soul and consciousness then I feel that the knowledge,experiences etc. from past lives
within ones soul is what determines the level of consciousness the person is capable of reaching.
I don't see them as separate entities.
soul + consciousness/spirit
Thank you Stephen
Language,
I remember reading a few of Jung's works years ago, "Man and His Symbols" ,also his book on dreams, another about alchemy, collective
unconscious , and I'm sure anything on astrology.
I remember this very clearly because I've always wondered when a great one incarnates, like Jung (in their earlier years, before fame)and on their journey goes for some type of reading , because I've never heard or read that the reader saw the person leaving their markon history.
If some ancient writings that were left to us are true about the famous ones, it then seems that the mediums of old where much moreaccurate on a persons destiny.

My point with this thread is not so much based on cynicsm but experience. Even Seymour-Smith who I quoted
was inclined to praise his heroes at a level close to hero worship. He is more famous for his biographies than
his astrology.
I have seen countless times, almost every time, that the various formulae or guidelines for guaging a soul's
level of advancement are misused at the level of self-delusion. I watch how people handle criticism. I watch
how people cope with the their own lack of importance. I see how ego and delusion ravage lives, even at levels
well below pathology.
It is like the issue of so-called soul mates. It is abused so often and so tragically that it is a sad topic for me.
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September-

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?

Morning« Reply #46 - on: 01.07.2009 at 00:54 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Stephen, I'm returning to the beginning of your thread to re-read it. There's much to digest and ponder, also
captured my imagination.
Don't forget the "twin flames" lolThanks again

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language

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #47 - on: 01.07.2009 at 01:29 [UT+1] »Quote from September-Morning on 01.07.2009 at 00:11 [UT+1]:
Language,
I remember reading a few of Jung's works years ago, "Man and His Symbols" ,also his book on dreams, another about alchemy, collective
unconscious , and I'm sure anything on astrology.
I remember this very clearly because I've always wondered when a great one incarnates, like Jung (in their earlier years, before fame)and on their journey goes for some type of reading , because I've never heard or read that the reader saw the person leaving their markon history.
If some ancient writings that were left to us are true about the famous ones, it then seems that the mediums of old where much moreaccurate on a persons destiny.

To vague for me, I would need page numbers to enable me to look into it.
I think he talked about reincarnation in his cobbled together auto-biography, but from memory found the ideainteresting in relation to his and others dreams but perhaps not plausible, at least in the exoteric sense. He
was a scientist after all.
His angle might have been to approach these memory sensations through the way collective imagery istransferred through the DNA. Ancestral imprinting, the water houses in the Zodiac.
Similar idea to the Buddhist Laya vij-na.
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lioninrain
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #48 - on: 01.07.2009 at 01:50 [UT+1] »As far as a species goes, I think we have become like a wild animal brought in caged, fed, and unable to any
longer fend for themselves in their native habitat - We are not our ancestors' equals at all in this regard.
However, it seems that you are meaning more on an individual level, and I think it depends entirely upon who
you ask. Kind of like the "mass enlightenment" that many new age type stuff assures us is happening - I don't
see any evidence of this either, more the opposite if anything.
Posts: 1554
Gender:I did read something at one time or another, and can not remember who to attibute it to, but may have wellbeen Kirshnamurti - Anyway, whoever it was said that the monks, nuns etc, who are primarily shut off from thetrials and tribulations of life out in the world actually are not any sort of evolved beings - In other words, it's
easy to "be good" in such an environment, more so than the world at large. I thought that was probably
accurate.
I've only read perhaps a dozen of his talks online, but I think I got a good basic feel for what he thought,
taught, practiced - and if I had to vote on anyone being "evolved" Kirshnamurti would probably be at the frontof my list. I don't know if an accurate birthtime exists for him as I don't think they really tracked such things
at that time.

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September-Morning

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #49 - on: 01.07.2009 at 02:04 [UT+1] »Language, I'll look for the book, check back in a day or 2.

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JuniperLee
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #50 - on: 01.07.2009 at 02:17 [UT+1] »this is an interesting thread. i have my chart done by a professional and he said i did indeed have a roughchart. but he said luckily i was sadge asc and i was "highly evolved" i never did get that part. juniper

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #51 - on: 01.07.2009 at 03:08 [UT+1] »Quote from JuniperLee on 01.07.2009 at 02:17 [UT+1]:
this is an interesting thread. i have my chart done by a professional and he said i did indeed have a rough chart. but he said luckily i wassadge asc and i was "highly evolved" i never did get that part. juniper

One day when you get around to it, you might get a second opinion on that chart of yours.
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solarwind
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #52 - on: 01.07.2009 at 04:11 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 18:01 [UT+1]:
Quote from language on 30.06.2009 at 17:09 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:24 [UT+1]:

Martin Seymour-Smith, The New Astrologer c 1981
McMillan Publishing

Does he say why, Is this just exaltations or rulerships as well?
I've never heard of him.

I don't understand your question. To me it is self-evident "I have never met any 'highly evolved' people"
Never again can you say that you've never heard of him.

what's the purpose of this thread....from your comments it sounds that you dont have any idea on what is the"highly evolved" soul to begin with...how can you make any judgement on the charts when you dont know what
you are looking for......are you the "lower evolved soul"... why do you care about the highly evolved ones.....doyou wish to be one....

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #53 - on: 01.07.2009 at 04:17 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 01.07.2009 at 04:11 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 18:01 [UT+1]:
Quote from language on 30.06.2009 at 17:09 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:24 [UT+1]:

Martin Seymour-Smith, The New Astrologer c 1981
McMillan Publishing

Does he say why, Is this just exaltations or rulerships as well?
I've never heard of him.

I don't understand your question. To me it is self-evident "I have never met any 'highly evolved'

people"Never again can you say that you've never heard of him.

what's the purpose of this thread....from your comments it sounds that you dont have any idea on what is the "highly evolved" soul to
begin with...how can you make any judgement on the charts when you dont know what you are looking for......are you the "lower evolved
soul"... why do you care about the highly evolved ones.....do you wish to be one....

Tell everyone who is highly evolved.
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SeptemberMorning
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #54 - on: 01.07.2009 at 04:48 [UT+1] »An astrologer can not tell how evolved a person is from their chart because they don't know the purpose forthe incarnation.

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #55 - on: 01.07.2009 at 05:03 [UT+1] »Quote from September-Morning on 01.07.2009 at 04:48 [UT+1]:
An astrologer can not tell how evolved a person is from their chart because they don't know the purpose for the incarnation.

The point of this thread is that in fact many astrologers do. There are astrological texts that state flatly thatplanets in exaltation indicate highly evolved souls.
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September-

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?

Morning« Reply #56 - on: 01.07.2009 at 05:13 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Probably because the astrologer who wrote the text had that planet in exaltation!

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CallieEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #57 - on: 01.07.2009 at 05:58 [UT+1] »Other than a concept of vanity to be used by those lacking in confidence or esteem, it might be interesting toconsider this term as describing a very able person.
I would consider a very able person to be one who has a very difficult chart that they are on top of and manage
very well.
It takes some level of presence and being to do that.
Easy charts are for 'babies' or for those taking a 'short break' between other difficult phases (or incarnations etc
etc).
But I'm sure there are many levels of evolved - thousands if not millions - with their own adjectives.
We can start with ....neo-initiate high evolvement ....... meaning barely out the womb soul wise.

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SeaGoat72
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #58 - on: 01.07.2009 at 07:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Thothy Stew on 30.06.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1]:
Exalted planets poorly situated can make for highly evolved a**holes, the top class kind that pi** everyone off. Who says highly evolvedmeans "good"?

Quote:
A planet can be poised to have its drives realized beautifully but if it answers to a poorly placed dispositior than you may not ever know
about the dignified planet by someone's normal behavior, as the dignified planet's ends are achieved through less than noble means.

Makes sense. It seems though the entire chart should be scrutinized (traditional method) to determine theweights by sect.
What about the Lot of Spirit?
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SelenaEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #59 - on: 01.07.2009 at 10:09 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 30.06.2009 at 21:19 [UT+1]:
Quote:
Who is 'highly evolved'?

Astrologically - I have no knowledge and thus do not know the answer to this question.
Existentially, one can certainly observe different levels of development, evolution and involution in people.
I consider a person "evolved" if he or she can think out of the box, and does not follow the collective unconscious (stereotypical thinking).
I suppose an "evolved" person has a very strong personal ethics (which is very different from the generic, static societal or any religious
morals) and is capable of applying it dynamically and creatively to different life situations and experiences.
Persona charts prompt how complex our personalities are, very diverse. We are sort of "spread" across various levels of development. We
possess both low and high natures and act on them accordingly. Sometimes low can outweigh the high. Sometimes our mental abilities areinferiour to the spiritual and emotional development, and we follow our intuition rather than logic. Sometimes mental capacities are muchstronger, one may end up being a brilliant scientist totally oblivious to the ethical aspects of own work.
Following this logic, a highly evolved individual would not necessarily be a monk or a saint, but a person more in tune with planetaryenergies and capable of balancing the inner conflict. Or in Jung's terms, more capable of bringing the shadow material into the light of the
consciousness. Their attention can travel easier to the "above" to be experienced here in "below". Many esoteric traditions (and also Vedic
and Buddhist perspectives) would stress to experience in contrast to having a purely intellectual understanding of things.
If you have once met a person who could honestly admit own faults without beating oneself up, getting bitter about life, blaming all
around for difficulties and unfairness, perhaps this is an example of "evolving".

Seagoat, I just admire your verbal abilities and the way you can straighten crumpled things out...
a kiss on your goaty nose
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Virgo Dei
Genetrix

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #60 - on: 01.07.2009 at 16:45 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from September-Morning on 01.07.2009 at 04:48 [UT+1]:
An astrologer can not tell how evolved a person is from their chart because they don't know the purpose for the incarnation.

Hmmm... now I would argue that "purpose of incarnation" is something that Astrologers CAN tell in a chart! I
would find little use for astrology if I didn't think this one of the key ways to utilize it. Now, knowing the
purpose of the incarnation DOES NOT, however, say much about how "highly evolved" a person is.
Just like I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, each Zodical sign has a "continuum" of energy
Posts: 4677

manifestations. Some people manifest more "base" energy of their zodiacal signs and others manifest more"refined" expressions of their signs.
"Purpose for incarnation".... is found in observing the nodes.. among other things. However... again... there isa continuum for how that purpose is expressed.

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #61 - on: 01.07.2009 at 16:57 [UT+1] »Quote from Juliet Morgan on 01.07.2009 at 16:45 [UT+1]:
Quote from September-Morning on 01.07.2009 at 04:48 [UT+1]:
An astrologer can not tell how evolved a person is from their chart because they don't know the purpose for theincarnation.

Hmmm... now I would argue that "purpose of incarnation" is something that Astrologers CAN tell in a chart! I would find little use forastrology if I didn't think this one of the key ways to utilize it. Now, knowing the purpose of the incarnation DOES NOT, however, say muchabout how "highly evolved" a person is.
Just like I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, each Zodical sign has a "continuum" of energy manifestations. Some people
manifest more "base" energy of their zodiacal signs and others manifest more "refined" expressions of their signs.
"Purpose for incarnation".... is found in observing the nodes.. among other things. However... again... there is a continuum for how that
purpose is expressed.

Yes, and I think that it is easy to deduce what one's purpose in this life is by the circumstances of their life, butthat does not allow us to rank people as highly evolved. These are two entirely different issues.
According to my studies and resarch into metaphysics and reincarnation, you can deduce things about 'purpose'by the circumstances of this life.
If you were born into a familiy where communication is impossible, then you were born to work on
communication.
If you were born into a family where little love was available (unlike the average family) then you were born towork on love.
That does not indicate that you were uncommunicative or unloving in the past. You, in your infinite wisdom,
may have chosen lessons to learn for the edification of it.
I beilieve these are fair deductions about past lives and karma and life purposes, but they do not tell us who isan advanced soul.
I agree with an earlier writer here, if you need to label yourself as highly evolved, you are probably not.
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EyesisEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #62 - on: 01.07.2009 at 17:04 [UT+1] »Yes, the South Node is where we came from Karmically, and the North node is the path we need to take toovercome past Karmic debt. I have my South Node in Aries
stuff someother lifetime. Now it is time to pay the debt.

. My life is not for me this time, I did the selfish

I am fortunate to have known people who had great and true character. A highly evolved person would besomeone who genuinely rises above the din and does cool things not for glory, but because it is the right thing
to do. They would not do it to be able to look better than others. Ego has nothing to do with being evolved.
They would not resort to using foul language because they would know that it would make them worse thanthe one cursing. The person would find the high road instead of doing the thing that is easiest. They do exist,
but you never hear of them because they are the unsung heroes and heroines in society. They seek no glory.
They do it out of love and respect for their fellow person. I don't have to like you, but I can still love you.
It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does notmake us better, it just makes us more humane.
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Matrika Matters

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #63 - on: 01.07.2009 at 17:08 [UT+1] »lioninrain Quote:I did read something at one time or another, and can not remember who to attibute it to, but may have well been Kirshnamurti - Anyway,
whoever it was said that the monks, nuns etc, who are primarily shut off from the trials and tribulations of life out in the world actuallyare not any sort of evolved beings - In other words, it's easy to "be good" in such an environment, more so than the world at large. I
thought that was probably accurate.

Posts: 7405

I've only read perhaps a dozen of his talks online, but I think I got a good basic feel for what he thought, taught, practiced - and if I had
to vote on anyone being "evolved" Kirshnamurti would probably be at the front of my list. I don't know if an accurate birthtime exists forhim as I don't think they really tracked such things at that time .

lioninrain, Krishnamurti was born in India. They have been practicing Vedic astrology for a really long time,certainly in Krishnamurti's lifetime.
Stephen Baxter Quote:I agree with an earlier writer here, if you need to label yourself as highly evolved, you are probably not.

You may have something here.
I once watched an Indian teacher who was held in great esteem by many (including me) answering questions
put by westerners.
Someone asked "are you enlightened"...no answer...westerner asked the same question again.
The teacher was unable to answer, because there is a prohibition in the tradition... one may not describe
themselves as enlightened...so to do so would merely label you within that tradition as a bit of an idiot andunread.
The westerner went off thinking the teacher was unenlightened because the question, put repeatedly, wentunanswered.
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #64 - on: 01.07.2009 at 17:10 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 01.07.2009 at 17:04 [UT+1]:
A highly evolved person would be someone who genuinely rises above the din and does cool things not for glory, but because it is the rightthing to do. They would not resort to using foul language because they would know that it would make them worse than the one cursing.
The person would find the high road instead of doing the thing that is easiest. They do exist, but you never hear of them because they are
the unsung heroes and heroines in society. They seek no glory. They do it out of love and respect for their fellow person. I don't have tolike you, but I can still love you.
It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does not make us better, it justmakes us more humane.

I agree basically; just like I agree basically with the highest thought in the recorded words of Jesus. It seems
clear to me that Jesus had ideas about how to become a better person. That is quite wonderful, and I generally
agree with ideas that are considered Christian in this way.
You added the node parts later, I am agreeing with what you see printed above.
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Victorine

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #65 - on: 01.07.2009 at 17:16 [UT+1] »Quote from matrika on 01.07.2009 at 17:08 [UT+1]:
lioninrain Quote:I did read something at one time or another, and can not remember who to attibute it to, but may have well been
Kirshnamurti - Anyway, whoever it was said that the monks, nuns etc, who are primarily shut off from the trials andtribulations of life out in the world actually are not any sort of evolved beings - In other words, it's easy to "be good" insuch an environment, more so than the world at large. I thought that was probably accurate.
I've only read perhaps a dozen of his talks online, but I think I got a good basic feel for what he thought, taught, practiced- and if I had to vote on anyone being "evolved" Kirshnamurti would probably be at the front of my list. I don't know if an
accurate birthtime exists for him as I don't think they really tracked such things at that time .

lioninrain, Krishnamurti was born in India. They have been practicing Vedic astrology for a really long time, certainly in Krishnamurti's
lifetime.

Krishnamurti, Jeddu's chart is in the astro-databank but has a Rodden raiting B..
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Matrika Matters
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #66 - on: 01.07.2009 at 17:19 [UT+1] »Victorine Quote:
Krishnamurti, Jeddu's chart is in the astro-databank but has a Rodden raiting B..

Posts: 7405

There's a thread on this forum that contains many charts of spiritual leaders/teachers, I think Krishnamurti's isin there.

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Thothy Stew

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #67 - on: 01.07.2009 at 17:34 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 01.07.2009 at 07:05 [UT+1]:
Makes sense. It seems though the entire chart should be scrutinized (traditional method) to determine the weights by sect.

How so? Last I checked Sect was determined by the position of the Sun and by some authorities the Moon as
it relates to the horizon of a horoscope.
Quote:
What about the Lot of Spirit?

What about the Lot of Spirit?
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EyesisEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #68 - on: 01.07.2009 at 17:51 [UT+1] »Cool Beans!! C retrograde in e strikes again. I think the term bass ackward is quite aprropriate for me!!
People associate spiritual evolution with I, but I think it comes down to individual expression also.
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 01.07.2009 at 17:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 01.07.2009 at 17:04 [UT+1]:
A highly evolved person would be someone who genuinely rises above the din and does cool things not for glory, but
because it is the right thing to do. They would not resort to using foul language because they would know that it would
make them worse than the one cursing. The person would find the high road instead of doing the thing that is easiest.
They do exist, but you never hear of them because they are the unsung heroes and heroines in society. They seek noglory. They do it out of love and respect for their fellow person. I don't have to like you, but I can still love you.
It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does not make us
better, it just makes us more humane.

I agree basically; just like I agree basically with the highest thought in the recorded words of Jesus. It seems clear to me that Jesus had
ideas about how to become a better person. That is quite wonderful, and I generally agree with ideas that are considered Christian in thisway.
You added the node parts later, I am agreeing with what you see printed above.

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Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #69 - on: 01.07.2009 at 17:56 [UT+1] »Quote from matrika on 01.07.2009 at 17:08 [UT+1]:[Stephen Baxter Quote:I agree with an earlier writer here, if you need to label yourself as highly evolved, you are probably not.

You may have something here.
I once watched an Indian teacher who was held in great esteem by many (including me) answering questions put by westerners.
Someone asked "are you enlightened"...no answer...westerner asked the same question again.
The teacher was unable to answer, because there is a prohibition in the tradition... one may not describe themselves as enlightened...so to
do so would merely label you within that tradition as a bit of an idiot and unread.
The westerner went off thinking the teacher was unenlightened because the question, put repeatedly, went unanswered.

This arguement reminds me of The Life of Brian where Brian's followers strongly believe that he is the Messiah,
though he of course denies it. Followers: "Only the true Messiah denies his identity." So poor Brian finally givesin "All right, then I AM the Messiah" Followers: "He Is the Messiah!"
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #70 - on: 01.07.2009 at 18:06 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez nas on 01.07.2009 at 17:56 [UT+1]:
Quote from matrika on 01.07.2009 at 17:08 [UT+1]:[Stephen Baxter Quote:I agree with an earlier writer here, if you need to label yourself as highly evolved, you are probably not.

You may have something here.
I once watched an Indian teacher who was held in great esteem by many (including me) answering questions put by
westerners.
Someone asked "are you enlightened"...no answer...westerner asked the same question again.
The teacher was unable to answer, because there is a prohibition in the tradition... one may not describe themselves as
enlightened...so to do so would merely label you within that tradition as a bit of an idiot and unread.
The westerner went off thinking the teacher was unenlightened because the question, put repeatedly, went unanswered.

This arguement reminds me of The Life of Brian where Brian's followers strongly believe that he is the Messiah, though he of course
denies it. Followers: "Only the true Messiah denies his identity." So poor Brian finally gives in "All right, then I AM the Messiah" Followers:"He Is the Messiah!"

It shows two points, one, Monty Python RULES, and two, faith is usually a Catch-22 (after the novel Catch-22
by Joseph Heller)
Catch-22 is an US army term for any spurious exception to any rule. In other words, where the rules favor thepoor recruit and disfavor the army, then the army might invoke a Catch-22 no matter how idiotic or unjust inorder to protect its interests to the disadvantage of the poor recruit.
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Ed Falis

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #71 - on: 01.07.2009 at 18:30 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 01.07.2009 at 17:04 [UT+1]:...
I am fortunate to have known people who had great and true character. A highly evolved person would be someone who genuinely rises
above the din and does cool things not for glory, but because it is the right thing to do. They would not do it to be able to look better thanothers. Ego has nothing to do with being evolved. They would not resort to using foul language because they would know that it would
make them worse than the one cursing. The person would find the high road instead of doing the thing that is easiest. They do exist, but
you never hear of them because they are the unsung heroes and heroines in society. They seek no glory. They do it out of love andrespect for their fellow person. I don't have to like you, but I can still love you.
It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does not make us better, it justmakes us more humane.

There are some interesting stories about "saints" in the Buddhist literature. Milarepa particularly comes tomind. Although he was ultimately transcendant and is considered one of the greatest yogis of Tibet, this didn't
happen until after he messed with sorcery and murdered someone. My point is that even behavior isn't always
going to be a reliable indicator of an "evolved soul". There are similar stories in that tradition of others.
- Ed
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realworld
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #72 - on: 01.07.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1] »I think the inventor of this mind-reading demonstration is quite evolved:
http://drdemento.com/games/mindtrick/See if it works for you. (you can do it more than once just to check he isn't just guessing).
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Gene Ray

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #73 - on: 01.07.2009 at 19:29 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 01.07.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1]:
I think the inventor of this mind-reading demonstration is quite evolved:
http://drdemento.com/games/mindtrick/

Posts: 3329
Gender:See if it works for you. (you can do it more than once just to check he isn't just guessing).

Hello Realworld
I figured it out right away. Does that mean I am evolved? (ha)GeneBack to top

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?

Virgo Dei
Genetrix« Reply #74 - on: 01.07.2009 at 21:04 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from Stephen Baxter on 01.07.2009 at 17:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 01.07.2009 at 17:04 [UT+1]:
A highly evolved person would be someone who genuinely rises above the din and does cool things not for glory, but
because it is the right thing to do. They would not resort to using foul language because they would know that it would
make them worse than the one cursing. The person would find the high road instead of doing the thing that is easiest.
They do exist, but you never hear of them because they are the unsung heroes and heroines in society. They seek noglory. They do it out of love and respect for their fellow person. I don't have to like you, but I can still love you.
It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does not make us
better, it just makes us more humane.

I agree basically; just like I agree basically with the highest thought in the recorded words of Jesus. It seems clear to me that Jesus had
ideas about how to become a better person. That is quite wonderful, and I generally agree with ideas that are considered Christian in thisway.

Posts: 4677

You added the node parts later, I am agreeing with what you see printed above.

Stephen, can I deduce from this statement that you do not agree with the nodes as being indicators of past

lives and/or present life purpose? If so, what indicators, if any, do you find in the chart to assess such things?
Sorry, if I'm getting off topic.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #75 - on: 01.07.2009 at 21:19 [UT+1] »Quote from Juliet Morgan on 01.07.2009 at 21:04 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 01.07.2009 at 17:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 01.07.2009 at 17:04 [UT+1]:
A highly evolved person would be someone who genuinely rises above the din and does cool things not forglory, but because it is the right thing to do. They would not resort to using foul language because theywould know that it would make them worse than the one cursing. The person would find the high roadinstead of doing the thing that is easiest. They do exist, but you never hear of them because they are theunsung heroes and heroines in society. They seek no glory. They do it out of love and respect for their fellow
person. I don't have to like you, but I can still love you.
It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does
not make us better, it just makes us more humane.

I agree basically; just like I agree basically with the highest thought in the recorded words of Jesus. It seems clear to me
that Jesus had ideas about how to become a better person. That is quite wonderful, and I generally agree with ideas thatare considered Christian in this way.

You added the node parts later, I am agreeing with what you see printed above.

Stephen, can I deduce from this statement that you do not agree with the nodes as being indicators of past lives and/or present life
purpose? If so, what indicators, if any, do you find in the chart to assess such things? Sorry, if I'm getting off topic.

No, I don't object or disagree, but I wrote the first part first.
Nodes are important, but I don't interpret them karmically, because karma cannot be tested. I just feel bogus
using karmic astrology. I know that many astrologers use the nodes that way.
As I said, I believe in reincarnation, but astrology works without it, and I can speak with authority about
astrology, but I think karmic astrology is guesswork. I don't like using guesswork. It is so presumptuous totalk about someone's karmic debt.
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Virgo Dei

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?

Genetrix« Reply #76 - on: 01.07.2009 at 22:22 [UT+1] »MemberQuote:
No, I don't object or disagree, but I wrote the first part first.
Nodes are important, but I don't interpret them karmically, because karma cannot be tested. I just feel bogus using karmic astrology. I
know that many astrologers use the nodes that way.
As I said, I believe in reincarnation, but astrology works without it, and I can speak with authority about astrology, but I think karmic
astrology is guesswork. I don't like using guesswork. It is so presumptuous to talk about someone's karmic debt.

I can respect that perspective. I guess I kind of agree. I don't think it's fair to assess a person's karmic debts
either. That's nearly the same as determining if someone is "highly evolved."
Posts: 4677

Still, I do think looking at the nodes is helpful insofar as they can be used to determine what sorts of
attributes/resources/skills/knowledge/experiences a person might come into this life with (south node) andwhat sort of attributes/resources/skills/knowledge/experience one might need to grow into, .ie. life purpose.
Knowing these things is helpful to a person. I agree that astrology isn't needed to determine these things
either. Observation of one's life can often render the same results. But, really, can't that be said for a lot ofapplications of astrology?
I find astrology useful because it's a different way of perceiving--- through symbols and images-- that cansometimes offer a better vantage point of observing one's life. Astrology is a "lens". Sometimes we needdifferent lenses to "see".

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Stephen Baxter

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #77 - on: 01.07.2009 at 23:37 [UT+1] »Quote from September-Morning on 01.07.2009 at 00:54 [UT+1]:
Stephen, I'm returning to the beginning of your thread to re-read it. There's much to digest and ponder, also captured my imagination.
Don't forget the "twin flames" lolThanks again

It is not that I believe that Twin Flames or Soul Mates don't exist, it is that in more than 95% (my conservative
estimate) where people use the term to enoble their relationships, I simply beleive they are deluded. Delusion
in love is extremely common.
Either person in the relationship can be deeply hurt by the delusion if you remember how painful divorce is.
If you believe your fiance is your soul mate, and you think that difference is as significant as the term implies
then:
You believe that your happiness will be ten times more with only one-tenth the effort expended upon therelationship. You assume your Soul Mate will never cheat, hurt or critize. And if you cheat, hurt or criticize you
EXPECT your Soul Mate to be sweet and forgiving.
In fact, divorce is the norm, so few things are as much work as committed relationships. If you hook up
expecting to apply little work to the relationship, this match made in heaven will not have much going for it but
myth and delusion.
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lioninrain
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #78 - on: 02.07.2009 at 02:02 [UT+1] »Quote:
lioninrain, Krishnamurti was born in India. They have been practicing Vedic astrology for a really long time, certainly in Krishnamurti's
lifetime.

Posts: 1554
Gender:Yeah, I know that they have, but wasn't sure when/if they actually recorded accurate birthtimes then - or how
accurate?
I never actually looked for a chart for him, never occurred to me.
Regardless of what one may find there, I like him.

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solarwind

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #79 - on: 02.07.2009 at 02:23 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 01.07.2009 at 18:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 01.07.2009 at 17:04 [UT+1]:...
I am fortunate to have known people who had great and true character. A highly evolved person would be someone who
genuinely rises above the din and does cool things not for glory, but because it is the right thing to do. They would not do
it to be able to look better than others. Ego has nothing to do with being evolved. They would not resort to using foullanguage because they would know that it would make them worse than the one cursing. The person would find the highroad instead of doing the thing that is easiest. They do exist, but you never hear of them because they are the unsung
heroes and heroines in society. They seek no glory. They do it out of love and respect for their fellow person. I don't haveto like you, but I can still love you.
It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does not make us
better, it just makes us more humane.

There are some interesting stories about "saints" in the Buddhist literature. Milarepa particularly comes to mind. Although he wasultimately transcendant and is considered one of the greatest yogis of Tibet, this didn't happen until after he messed with sorcery andmurdered someone. My point is that even behavior isn't always going to be a reliable indicator of an "evolved soul". There are similar
stories in that tradition of others.
- Ed

ed, do you think that it's possible to see any signs of the evolved souls in a chart? I wonder how buddhists
determine transcendency

i agree that the perfect behavior is a prerequisite of the highly evolved soul....

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language
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #80 - on: 02.07.2009 at 04:44 [UT+1] »Assuming we have this vague construct called a 'soul', which is a long shot, although the edifice of western
astrology relies on the concept of the Anima Mundi. Transcending Plato has been the more evolutionary
endeavour of some in the astro ''community''.
Krsihnamurti was something of a cogntive therapist, more persuaded by the materialist position, wasn't he?

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rookishMember

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #81 - on: 02.07.2009 at 05:57 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 01.07.2009 at 21:19 [UT+1]:
Nodes are important, but I don't interpret them karmically, because karma cannot be tested. I
just feel bogus using karmic astrology.
I know that many astrologers use the nodes that way.
As I said, I believe in reincarnation, but astrology works without it, and I can speak with authority about astrology, but I think karmic
astrology is guesswork. I don't like using guesswork. It is so presumptuous to talk about someone's karmic debt.

Posts: 3675

I completely agree with this.
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 01.07.2009 at 23:37 [UT+1]:
It is not that I believe that Twin Flames or Soul Mates don't exist, it is that in more than 95% (my conservative estimate) where people
use the term to enoble their relationships, I simply beleive they are deluded. Delusion in love is extremely common.
Either person in the relationship can be deeply hurt by the delusion if you remember how painful divorce is.
If you believe your fiance is your soul mate, and you think that difference is as significant as the term implies then:
You believe that your happiness will be ten times more with only one-tenth the effort expended upon the relationship. You assume yourSoul Mate will never cheat, hurt or critize. And if you cheat, hurt or criticize you EXPECT your Soul Mate to be sweet and forgiving.
In fact, divorce is the norm, so few things are as much work as committed relationships. If you hook up expecting to apply little work to
the relationship, this match made in heaven will not have much going for it but myth and delusion.

Once again, I agree with you here.
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rookishMember

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #82 - on: 02.07.2009 at 07:20 [UT+1] »There appear to me to be a couple of problems with conceptualising individuals as being 'highly evolved'.
Firstly that there is some kind of value judgment that being 'highly evolved' is 'better'. Evolution is not a value
judgement is a dynamic process for fitness of purpose. Often things that evolve significantly differently fromthe main population becomes so specialised that it becomes an evolutionary dead end. I guess we could see
monks and nuns and atheists (less likely to have children or large families and therefore pass on inculcatedatheistic views) as dead ends in that sense, they don't reproduce themselves.
Posts: 3675

Secondly, the spuriousness of equating individual and cultural behaviours with evolution. This is one of thecritiques of Dawkins conceptualisation of the 'meme' as a unit of culture that is reproduced in the way that agene would be. Cultures are essentially an artefact of human societal living which mutate at a much faster pacethan biological evolution, through contact with other cultures often within the space of a single human lifetime.
There is some kind of assumption here that human beings biologically are the 'highest' form of life, and cannot
evolve biologically any further, and it is therefore the individual/culture that evolves to be 'better' than another.
Aren't we really talking about being well educated and having access to many effective streams ofcommunication that enables cultural replication rather than being actually better? Better for whom?
I read something many years ago that equated houses with signs, and suggested that Aries/1st were new bornsouls with much to learn and that these souls would work their way through the zodiacal signs towards thehighest expression of humanity, Pisces/12th. If you didn't learn a sign/house lesson well you went back andrelived it. At the time - I was about 14 - I was quite pleased with being an A k because it meant that I was
higher up the ladder, better in some way than those Arians I had floating around my family. But what I'm left
with now is this sense that I don't actually know what is 'better' - to be able to conceptualise and use abstract
concepts and experience to understand what is happening around or to be able to empathise with the sufferingof others, or to be able to go with the flow of a culture, or to be able to embrace the world with enthusiasm
and thirst for experience. I don't know what high or low expression is - it is once again a value judgment. We
could see a differential in behaviours assuredly, but the language that is used is judgmental and unhelpful incomprehending the continuum of behaviours and their utility both individually and culturally.
My lack of god comes through and is why I don't equate with these value judgments. I don't see that any ofthis actually matters at all. What does it matter if 'Fred' is 'highly evolved'? In the vastness of the universe, ofspace and time, does it matter if he lives simply, uneducated, unknowingly? Does it matter if he is a shaman?
Does it matter if he is a master criminal doing dastardly deeds? The only thing that this matters to is thatnebulous thing 'society' that needs controlled behaviours to be in place, even with some deviation on the partof some individuals, to sustain order. We could see the 'highly evolved' as those that have learnt and accepted
the cultural lesson to the extent that they have embodied consideration for others, following the rules(principles) etc and hence are more highly constrained in their behaviours by acceptance and application ofrules internally (internal locus of control) (Saturn?) presumably because it enables them to do other things thatthey want to do, by getting on with others. Those that are considered more 'lowly evolved' then are those thatneed prodding to accepting the cultural rules/laws and have not internalised or embodied those rules, but are
more impulsive and intuitive and adaptable to environment, and they are doing what they want to do. So it
amounts to a degree of socialisation. Now isn't it interesting that we accept highly and lowly as being
judgments on better and worse, but the actual behaviours themselves associated with those judgments areconverse to what this Western society would currently value. We have a poor view of people that are rulebound. We are fascinated by people that break the rules and do what they feel they want to, we see that as
good. I think we are culturally confused (acceptance and consideration association with wisdom and age;
rebellion and individualism with youth; veneration of youth; invisibility of the old). But mostly, this value
judgment is unhelpful.
And yes, I agree, if someone wants to call themselves 'highly evolved' or is flattered by someone telling them
they are, then we are really seeing the extent that their ego needs massaging, their need to be valued by others
and seen in a good light. But doesn't that reflect what I said the paragraph above? Those needing to be highly
evolved are actually very socialised and are dependent on their cultural embodiment to validate their
behaviours and actions.

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SeaGoat72

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #83 - on: 02.07.2009 at 07:27 [UT+1] »Quote from Thothy Stew on 01.07.2009 at 17:34 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 01.07.2009 at 07:05 [UT+1]:
Makes sense. It seems though the entire chart should be scrutinized (traditional method) to determine the weights by sect.
How so? Last I checked Sect was determined by the position of the Sun and by some authorities the Moon as it relates to the horizon of ahoroscope.

Hi Tothy Stew,
I don't claim much knowledge of ancient methods, however to appreciate the complexity of human personality
and potential it appears not enough to determine if only Sun and Moon are in sect?
I understood all (visible) planets can be analyzed if in sect by nature or placement and in sign, and weighted.
The traditional method does not consider OIJ.
I wish I could include a detailed quote from the manual by Michael Munkasey for all to see, but it iscopyrighted.

What about the Lot of Spirit. The names of Arabic parts generally confer their qualities. Thus, the Lot of Spirit
could be somewhat telling in the matters of soul, spiritual development and growth.
From Astro-Wiki:
If the Lot of Fortune deals with material well-being, the body, fortune and health. The Lot of
Spirit represents the initiative taken by that person, or what use is made of what is given.
The Lot of Spirit is the reverse of the Lot of Fortune, giving the following formulas:
Day chart: Ascendant - Moon + Sun
Night chart: Ascendant + Moon - Sun
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Thothy Stew
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #84 - on: 02.07.2009 at 10:17 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 07:27 [UT+1]:
Quote from Thothy Stew on 01.07.2009 at 17:34 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 01.07.2009 at 07:05 [UT+1]:
Makes sense. It seems though the entire chart should be scrutinized (traditional method) to determine theweights by sect.
How so? Last I checked Sect was determined by the position of the Sun and by some authorities the Moon as it relates tothe horizon of a horoscope.

Hi Tothy Stew,
I don't claim much knowledge of ancient methods, however to appreciate the complexity of human personality and potential it appears notenough to determine if only Sun and Moon are in sect?
I understood all (visible) planets can be analyzed if in sect by nature or placement and in sign, and weighted. The traditional method does
not consider

OIJ.

I wish I could include a detailed quote from the manual by Michael Munkasey for all to see, but it is copyrighted.

What about the Lot of Spirit. The names of Arabic parts generally confer their qualities. Thus, the Lot of Spirit could be somewhat tellingin the matters of soul, spiritual development and growth.
From Astro-Wiki:
If the Lot of Fortune deals with material well-being, the body, fortune and health. The Lot of Spirit represents theinitiative taken by that person, or what use is made of what is given.
The Lot of Spirit is the reverse of the Lot of Fortune, giving the following formulas:
Day chart: Ascendant - Moon + Sun
Night chart: Ascendant + Moon - Sun

From what I understand, you determine the chart's Sect first, then you can determine whether the otherplanets are within the chart's Sect. The Sect of a chart is only determined by the position of the Sun andpossibly the Moon in the chart. After that, each planet can be evaluated via dignity and/or temperament
depending on its alignment with the chart's Sect. Except Mercury, which is determined by whether it is oriental
or occidental to the Sun. Sorry if I was misunderstanding your statement. I was thinking about the Sect of
the chart, which comes first.
As far as the Lots go, I don't use those personally in evaluating someone's core "personality". When I am
interested in evaluating how their life may turn out, or if I use Vallens' "timelord" technique, thats when I
would begin using the Lots. The Lots are somewhat interesting though, as I have noticed previously that a
Lot's definition, especially the Fortune/Spirit, can technically be open to interpretation depending on theastrologer's perspective. So to be honest I am somewhat reluctant to use them until I can get more firm
documentation on their exact function.

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lioninrain

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #85 - on: 02.07.2009 at 11:42 [UT+1] »That's the thing in a nutshell - sorry I can't remember who previously said it now But exactly who is qualified to judge one "highly evolved" or "enlightened" and why do they think that they are
qualified?
Ask 10 different people, get 10 different answers....which one's right? Probably none of them, because it's notreally up to us to judge.
Posts: 1554
Gender:Quote:
Krsihnamurti was something of a cogntive therapist, more persuaded by the materialist position, wasn't he?

I don't really know - I have not actually studied the man in great detail, but from what I did read, he sounded
to me like he was somewhat ahead of his time. I only read through a bunch of talks he gave back in the 1950's
through I think 1960's or 70's. I was impressed by what I did read though, and that really doesn't happen allthat often with such figures and me.
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Thothy Stew
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #86 - on: 02.07.2009 at 11:47 [UT+1] »Quote from lioninrain on 02.07.2009 at 11:42 [UT+1]:
That's the thing in a nutshell - sorry I can't remember who previously said it now But exactly who is qualified to judge one "highly evolved" or "enlightened" and why do they think that they are qualified?
Ask 10 different people, get 10 different answers....which one's right? Probably none of them, because it's not really up to us to judge.

Perhaps you are right, but then exactly what is doing the judging? The astrology, or the people interpreting? I
have no rational basis for this belief, but I truly do believe that no consensus among astrologers exists todefinitively determine "evolved" or "enlightened" or "eminent" factors simply because anyone who didn't fit thegeneral consensus but felt that they themselves were enlightened, rejected the consensus, and didn't have any
objectors strong enough to have the objector's notions objected, because everyone is afraid to criticize anyone
else.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #87 - on: 02.07.2009 at 12:56 [UT+1] »Quote from lioninrain on 02.07.2009 at 11:42 [UT+1]:
That's the thing in a nutshell - sorry I can't remember who previously said it now But exactly who is qualified to judge one "highly evolved" or "enlightened" and why do they think that they are qualified?
Ask 10 different people, get 10 different answers....which one's right? Probably none of them, because it's not really up to us to judge.
Quote:
Krsihnamurti was something of a cogntive therapist, more persuaded by the materialist position, wasn't he?

I don't really know - I have not actually studied the man in great detail, but from what I did read, he sounded to me like he wassomewhat ahead of his time. I only read through a bunch of talks he gave back in the 1950's through I think 1960's or 70's. I was
impressed by what I did read though, and that really doesn't happen all that often with such figures and me.

The same question could be asked in the same spirit regarding any practice of karmic astrology.
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #88 - on: 02.07.2009 at 12:59 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 07:27 [UT+1]:
Quote from Thothy Stew on 01.07.2009 at 17:34 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 01.07.2009 at 07:05 [UT+1]:
Makes sense. It seems though the entire chart should be scrutinized (traditional method) to determine theweights by sect.
How so? Last I checked Sect was determined by the position of the Sun and by some authorities the Moon as it relates tothe horizon of a horoscope.

Hi Tothy Stew,
I don't claim much knowledge of ancient methods, however to appreciate the complexity of human personality and potential it appears notenough to determine if only Sun and Moon are in sect?
I understood all (visible) planets can be analyzed if in sect by nature or placement and in sign, and weighted. The traditional method does
not consider

OIJ.

I wish I could include a detailed quote from the manual by Michael Munkasey for all to see, but it is copyrighted.

What about the Lot of Spirit. The names of Arabic parts generally confer their qualities. Thus, the Lot of Spirit could be somewhat tellingin the matters of soul, spiritual development and growth.
From Astro-Wiki:
If the Lot of Fortune deals with material well-being, the body, fortune and health. The Lot of Spirit represents theinitiative taken by that person, or what use is made of what is given.
The Lot of Spirit is the reverse of the Lot of Fortune, giving the following formulas:
Day chart: Ascendant - Moon + Sun
Night chart: Ascendant + Moon - Sun

I thought I saw one astrologer interpret the Lot of Fortune as advantages you were born with -- the path ofleast resistance.
If memory serves, he seem to interpret the Lot of Spirit as a higher calling of growth. More risky perhaps, but
a different path than the path of least resistance.
I'm not sure, but that is my memory of his connotation to those two Lots/
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EyesisEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #89 - on: 02.07.2009 at 13:25 [UT+1] »Llewyllen associated "Highly Evolved" with someone who is in tune to the higher rays of the planets.
Considering that most of here are Darwinists ~ forgive me if I have made a gross assumption ~ but if this istrue then doesn't it lend its self to Spiritual or at least emotional evolution as well? I do not tie tech. with evo.
because it is simply an advancement.
I am forever seeking a path with a heart.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Buddha was said to have had a Taurus sun and Scorpio moon.
I would look to esoteric astrology for this type of topic material. Unfortunately most of my spiritual books havebeen stolen and I am finding it difficult to replace them.

Quote from Ed Falis on 01.07.2009 at 18:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 01.07.2009 at 17:04 [UT+1]:...
I am fortunate to have known people who had great and true character. A highly evolved person would be someone who
genuinely rises above the din and does cool things not for glory, but because it is the right thing to do. They would not do
it to be able to look better than others. Ego has nothing to do with being evolved. They would not resort to using foullanguage because they would know that it would make them worse than the one cursing. The person would find the highroad instead of doing the thing that is easiest. They do exist, but you never hear of them because they are the unsung
heroes and heroines in society. They seek no glory. They do it out of love and respect for their fellow person. I don't haveto like you, but I can still love you.
It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does not make us
better, it just makes us more humane.

There are some interesting stories about "saints" in the Buddhist literature. Milarepa particularly comes to mind. Although he wasultimately transcendant and is considered one of the greatest yogis of Tibet, this didn't happen until after he messed with sorcery andmurdered someone. My point is that even behavior isn't always going to be a reliable indicator of an "evolved soul". There are similar
stories in that tradition of others.
- Ed

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EyesisEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #90 - on: 02.07.2009 at 13:45 [UT+1] »I believe I have been a little vague when I was speaking of Karma. For my own experiences, I found that Karma
was the Only thing that could explain my trauma in childhood and early adult life. It is not like I had it coming,but I am a reincarnationist. I can't fathom how anyone can learn all of Life's lessons in one lifetime.
In regard to Soul Mates~I married mine. We fell in love over a telephone. When we met, that was it. Now he as
rest with my children.
Astrology is like water, it flows, it takes the shape of the vessel holding it, and when it is spilled it has no true
solid form.
Six Billion people ~ the possibilities are endless. Nothing is set in stone.
Be mindful of your thoughts because they become your words
Be mindful of your words because they become your actions
Be mindful of your actions because they become your habits
Be mindful of your habits because they become your character.
(Anonymous)
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #91 - on: 02.07.2009 at 13:58 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 02.07.2009 at 13:45 [UT+1]:
I believe I have been a little vague when I was speaking of Karma. For my own experiences, I found that Karma was the Only thing that
could explain my trauma in childhood and early adult life. It is not like I had it coming, but I am a reincarnationist. I can't fathom how
anyone can learn all of Life's lessons in one lifetime.
In regard to Soul Mates~I married mine. We fell in love over a telephone. When we met, that was it. Now he as rest with my children.
Astrology is like water, it flows, it takes the shape of the vessel holding it, and when it is spilled it has no true solid form.
Six Billion people ~ the possibilities are endless. Nothing is set in stone.
Be mindful of your thoughts because they become your words
Be mindful of your words because they become your actions
Be mindful of your actions because they become your habits
Be mindful of your habits because they become your character.
(Anonymous)

Do you think 100% of the people preparing to marry their "soul mate" are correct? I admit time will tell.
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EyesisEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #92 - on: 02.07.2009 at 14:10 [UT+1] »No I believe it is a very rare occurance because a lot of folks want it to happen. I wasn't even looking. My
marriage wasn't always paradise, but we walked burning deserts (metaphorically) and overcame unbelievableobstacles. I believe Love and romantic love are confused.
For me, I have been alone for twenty years now.
PS Not everything is Karmic. Not at all. Sometimes we just simply live.

Quote from Stephen Baxter on 02.07.2009 at 13:58 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 02.07.2009 at 13:45 [UT+1]:
I believe I have been a little vague when I was speaking of Karma. For my own experiences, I found that Karma was the
Only thing that could explain my trauma in childhood and early adult life. It is not like I had it coming, but I am areincarnationist. I can't fathom how anyone can learn all of Life's lessons in one lifetime.
In regard to Soul Mates~I married mine. We fell in love over a telephone. When we met, that was it. Now he as rest withmy children.
Astrology is like water, it flows, it takes the shape of the vessel holding it, and when it is spilled it has no true solid form.
Six Billion people ~ the possibilities are endless. Nothing is set in stone.
Be mindful of your thoughts because they become your words
Be mindful of your words because they become your actions
Be mindful of your actions because they become your habits
Be mindful of your habits because they become your character.
(Anonymous)

Do you think 100% of the people preparing to marry their "soul mate" are correct? I admit time will tell.

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Virgo Dei Genetrix

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #93 - on: 02.07.2009 at 15:28 [UT+1] »Rookish, I enjoyed reading your perspective! thank you for sharing it!

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sharasa
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #94 - on: 02.07.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1] »LOL I seriously doubt that where we came from we measure our evolvement in terms of higher or lower- wejust are and that's enough. I do believe we have more than one life here if we choose but I think we make thedecision. I don't know why but it probably makes sense before we come.
Don't believe in Karma, it's a lot
like the concept of heaven and hell, punishment and redemption - I think it's odd that we give whatever form
we have in the afterlife the human qualities we have in this one as though we're limited in the same ways.
When I was younger I thought that way but it no longer makes sense to me.
I think people like to use those terms because on some level we all want to feel special and you're more likely
to buy whatever they're selling if they can make you feel good about yourself and want to know more. And it
gives people hope and a way to reconcile whatever difficulties they can't resolve - not unlike religion.
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realworld

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #95 - on: 02.07.2009 at 17:59 [UT+1] »Quote from sharasa on 02.07.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1]:...
I think people like to use those terms because on some level we all want to feel special and you're more likely to buy whatever they're
selling if they can make you feel good about yourself and want to know more. And it gives people hope and a way to reconcile whateverdifficulties they can't resolve - not unlike religion.

IMO, there was a great example of this specialness on the CBS evening news a few nights ago:
They did a news story about American governor of South Carolina, Mark Sanford who had/is having an affair
with a woman in Argentina. He now says that his mistress is his "soulmate" - despite being married twith 4
kids. I know that newscasters aren't meant to comment on stories and are supposed to maintain a neutral anddetached demeanour, but I couldn't help but observe a slight raise of Katie Couric's eyebrows.
By this sort of definition, it sounds like this soul mate thing is mostly concerned with secrecy and sex, and far
too lofty to worry about hurting one's spouse or children, or the people who elected him to represent theireveryday problems.
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #96 - on: 02.07.2009 at 19:01 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 02.07.2009 at 17:59 [UT+1]:
Quote from sharasa on 02.07.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1]:...
I think people like to use those terms because on some level we all want to feel special and you're more likely to buy
whatever they're selling if they can make you feel good about yourself and want to know more. And it gives people hopeand a way to reconcile whatever difficulties they can't resolve - not unlike religion.

IMO, there was a great example of this specialness on the CBS evening news a few nights ago:
They did a news story about American governor of South Carolina, Mark Sanford who had/is having an affair with a woman in Argentina.
He now says that his mistress is his "soulmate" - despite being married twith 4 kids. I know that newscasters aren't meant to commenton stories and are supposed to maintain a neutral and detached demeanour, but I couldn't help but observe a slight raise of Katie Couric's
eyebrows.
By this sort of definition, it sounds like this soul mate thing is mostly concerned with secrecy and sex, and far too lofty to worry about
hurting one's spouse or children, or the people who elected him to represent their everyday problems.

I agree very much. I doubt soul mates are sacred, so sacred you are justified to hurt your family or dump yourresponsibilites. I was very surprised at this man. It is very out of character.
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SeaGoat72

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #97 - on: 02.07.2009 at 19:10 [UT+1] »What surprises me is that astrologers are surprised at the news like that about human nature

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Ed Falis
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #98 - on: 02.07.2009 at 19:24 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 02.07.2009 at 02:23 [UT+1]:...
ed, do you think that it's possible to see any signs of the evolved souls in a chart? I wonder how buddhists determine transcendencyiagree that the perfect behavior is a prerequisite of the highly evolved soul....

No, I don't think the chart shows this, though it could show how such a state might manifest. Obviously, I
disagree with the perfect behavior part. Another instance was Chogyam Trungpa, who did more to plant
Tibetan Buddhism in the west than just about anyone, and who made it comprehensible and relevant (eg his
book "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism"). His personal behavior was hardly perfect, but I think it would
be difficult to deny that he was "highly evolved" (in the sense I think we mean here), and that he did a great
deal of good for the development of spirituality in the US.
- Ed
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #99 - on: 02.07.2009 at 19:47 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 19:10 [UT+1]:
What surprises me is that astrologers are surprised at the news like that about human nature

I agree this shabby behavior is common, but this particular man had a very different reputation than that. He
is a character I am familiar with.
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SeaGoat72
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #100 - on: 02.07.2009 at 20:04 [UT+1] »Hi Stephen,
I was just kidding, I know what you mean.
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Virgo Dei Genetrix

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #101 - on: 02.07.2009 at 20:20 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 02.07.2009 at 19:47 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 19:10 [UT+1]:
What surprises me is that astrologers are surprised at the news like that about human nature

I agree this shabby behavior is common, but this particular man had a very different reputation than that. He is a character I am familiar
with.

Yes, wasn't he one of the key players in exposing Bill Clinton's affair?
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Spiral 28
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #102 - on: 02.07.2009 at 20:36 [UT+1] »Rookish, I like your post on this very much. Especially this:"I read something many years ago that equated houses with signs, and suggested that Aries/1st were new bornsouls with much to learn and that these souls would work their way through the zodiacal signs towards thehighest expression of humanity, Pisces/12th."

Posts: 3639

The zodiacal signs pattern can be symbolical in many ways. Just as the Houses are substitutes for the energyof the signs in order. When somone asked Marc Edmund Jones what was astrology, he said everything can besubstituted for everything else. One thing stands for another ad infinitum.

Gender:So Aries/1st New Souls can actually be a symbol for New Moon births of "new souls", but the rub is that nosoul is ever actually new, it is just at a new beginning of another Round that we follow degree by degree
through the circle in our repeating, evolving lives.
Even a most evolved person must play the part he is born to play according to sign, house, and aspects.
the purpose of evolving furthur.

For

If this is accepted, then it is obvious that those of us born in the Dark of the Moon final phase, equaling"Pisces/12th" in symbolism, are no more evolved, perhaps, than someone back in the First Quarter birth
moon phase, which is equal to 90 degrees around the circle at about the "Cancer" location in the zodiac, if
they have completed more Rounds that those of us born in the Dark of the Moon phase.
In other words, there is no way to know how many Rounds a person has completed of incarnating lives, andhow evolved he or she is other than the basic common sense rules of kindness to others, service to society,ability to be self-disciplined, gifts of intuition and psychic awareness, and deeper understanding of the humancondition and motives. The mind, the heart, the soul.
Ed has an excellent point about overcoming the urges of the ego. It does not play a part. Evolution comesfrom time spent in experience and learning. Some are afraid to take part in the necessary experiences.
Others learn very slowly compared to most. Many are very stuck in their ways and too stubborn to get out ofa rut. Evolving goes at a different rate for each soul.
Each birthchart is for that one life to play the part, learn from the experiences given, and try to solve some of
the karmic confrontations that or who appear.. Working out past weaknesses and mistakes that one has achance to improve on this time. IF someone were so highly evolved he made no mistakes or had no
weaknesses or karma to work out, then there would be purpose to be born in the first place.
But the fact must be realized that some are definitely more evolved than others. As we move around thecircle, life after life, the circle we begin on next Round of incarnating lives is not the same Circle we have justfinished over perhaps two thousand plus years. It is "higher up and furthur out."same time.

It is also deeper in, at the

A full spiral is a lovely thing to behold in the Universe as the stars are found in this shape with lights and mist
around it. Some of the stars are very old, and some are still new, but all are traveling in the same direction
within the spiral, held together by a mysterious Center.
Robert Frost said it: "We dance around a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle, and knows."
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #103 - on: 02.07.2009 at 20:59 [UT+1] »Quote from Juliet Morgan on 02.07.2009 at 20:20 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 02.07.2009 at 19:47 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 19:10 [UT+1]:
What surprises me is that astrologers are surprised at the news like that about human nature

I agree this shabby behavior is common, but this particular man had a very different reputation than that. He is acharacter I am familiar with.

Yes, wasn't he one of the key players in exposing Bill Clinton's affair?

Yes, they recently aired his condemnation of Bill Clinton from those days. Sad and irritating. Remember how
Newt Gingrich did the same; it later came out he was cheating on his wife while the impeachment was
progressing.
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IP Loggedsolarwind
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #104 - on: 02.07.2009 at 21:17 [UT+1] »My lack of god comes through and is why I don't equate with these value judgments. I don't see that any ofthis actually matters at all. What does it matter if 'Fred' is 'highly evolved'? In the vastness of the universe, ofspace and time, does it matter if he lives simply, uneducated, unknowingly? Does it matter if he is a shaman?
Does it matter if he is a master criminal doing dastardly deeds? The only thing that this matters to is thatnebulous thing 'society' that needs controlled behaviours to be in place, even with some deviation on the partof some individuals, to sustain order. We could see the 'highly evolved' as those that have learnt andaccepted the cultural lesson to the extent that they have embodied consideration for others, following therules (principles) etc and hence are more highly constrained in their behaviours by acceptance andapplication of rules internally (internal locus of control) (Saturn?) presumably because it enables them to doother things that they want to do, by getting on with others. Those that are considered more 'lowly evolved'
then are those that need prodding to accepting the cultural rules/laws and have not internalised or embodied
those rules, but are more impulsive and intuitive and adaptable to environment, and they are doing what theywant to do. So it amounts to a degree of socialisation. Now isn't it interesting that we accept highly and lowly

as being judgments on better and worse, but the actual behaviours themselves associated with those
judgments are converse to what this Western society would currently value. We have a poor view of people
that are rule bound. We are fascinated by people that break the rules and do what they feel they want to, we
see that as good. I think we are culturally confused (acceptance and consideration association with wisdom andage; rebellion and individualism with youth; veneration of youth; invisibility of the old). But mostly, this value
judgment is unhelpful.
i am not sure you deliver your point quite clearly...
who said that the society's rules and laws are always rightthat's a bit of a nonsense... in some islam

societies stoning to death is acceptable.... the numerous societies created laws and rules throughout thehistory that were based on prejudices and envy... 99.9% of population have no idea about the order of theuniverse and you expect to live by their rules
nonsense....
the humanity is far away overall from any ideal... the humanity can continue to be their little greedy petty
clueless self but it wont take it anywhere because they are poor things are confused....
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Gene Ray

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #105 - on: 02.07.2009 at 21:41 [UT+1] »Hello Spiral
I hope you are well. There is much I admire about your Astrological skills but this idea of reincarnation is
not one of them. I know of no evidence that suggests that re-incarnation is anything more than a myth andPosts: 3329
Gender:although I have been told and have seen in readings that I meet some requirements for being an "old soul"
who has a choice about being re-incarnated I find little importance in this idea. After all I was told there was a
Santa and an Easter Bunny and that there was a god and all of these are myth as well. It seems to me that an"old soul" might realize that he is an old soul but I know nothing of old souls nor soul mates so may be I justread the wrong book (ha).
So much crap is written in Astrology and Numerology and it seems the crap sells best because like a fictional
movie can make us feel better......a boy and his dog.....a girl who becomes a princess etc.
I heard the a birth is the begining of a cycle of re-incarnation and of course I think this is nonsense. It is aninteresting story and we can wrap it around ourselves and perhaps find pleasure in this belief but it is justsomething that we "choose" to believe, or worse something that some book writer encouraged us to believe.
I think, and hope, that these myths come falling down with the new Age but mankind (or part of mankind)needs such myths, and will find a way to keep the old ones or make up new ones.
I am off in a couple of hours for a three day weekend. I hope you enjoy the holiday.
Best wishes
Gene

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IP Loggedrealworld
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #106 - on: 02.07.2009 at 21:48 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 02.07.2009 at 20:59 [UT+1]:
Quote from Juliet Morgan on 02.07.2009 at 20:20 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 02.07.2009 at 19:47 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 19:10 [UT+1]:
What surprises me is that astrologers are surprised at the news like that about human nature

I agree this shabby behavior is common, but this particular man had a very different reputation than that.
He is a character I am familiar with.

Yes, wasn't he one of the key players in exposing Bill Clinton's affair?

Yes, they recently aired his condemnation of Bill Clinton from those days. Sad and irritating. Remember how Newt Gingrich did the same;it later came out he was cheating on his wife while the impeachment was progressing.

Is this the fault of men who can't keep their pants zipped up or the women who tempt them?
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Spiral 28

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #107 - on: 02.07.2009 at 21:49 [UT+1] »Of course it is a matter of belief. Sorry to state my beliefs in such an off-hand matter, Gene Ray.
will read a great deal to gather what sounds right to us.

Each of us

I like forums like this where we can each give our bit of what we have learned, and then there is a bouquet ofideas to think about. No one really knows, of course. Our minds are funny things. And our religious
teachings have a lot to do with it, as does our tendency to need proof.
Posts: 3639
Gender:I don't think any of the incarnation literature has to do with becoming a princess or about a man and his dog,
however. In fact, becoming a princess would be the worst thing you could do in your quest for simplicity andinner knowledge . The princess would probably be way down in the list of evolving, back at the materialistic
and impressing others stage.
Yes, many readings on incarnation are definitely filled with "all that crap" as you say, just as many books andmagazine columns on astrology are.
can work with.

Ultimately, we have to find what we feel and learn works as a truth we

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SeaGoat72
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #108 - on: 02.07.2009 at 22:43 [UT+1] »Returning to the question of whether there are indications of "highly evolved" in the chart.
How many astro twins Buddha or Christ or any other candidate for "evolved" could have had? Not all thosepeople turned out to do so well.
Any thoughts how to explain that?
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Ed Falis

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #109 - on: 02.07.2009 at 23:24 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 22:43 [UT+1]:
Returning to the question of whether there are indications of "highly evolved" in the chart.
How many astro twins Buddha or Christ or any other candidate for "evolved" could have had? Not all those people turned out to do sowell.
Any thoughts how to explain that?

Sure. It's not in the chart.
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Spiral 28
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #110 - on: 02.07.2009 at 23:39 [UT+1] »In my frame of reference, 10 people can be born at the same place at the same time and be astro twins, buteach is at a different evolved level because of inheritance influence and how far they have come in past lives.

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NewMonkie

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #111 - on: 02.07.2009 at 23:49 [UT+1] »I would think being evolved would mean having overcome challenges in your chart, not having things in yourchart naturally.
Either way, I think it would be the undeniable bias about this phrase that would cause problems. You say"highly evolved" and everyone would think "You mean better?... Better than me?... No!... I'm better than all ofyou!" or "You mean better?... Batter than me?... Maybe I should leave these 'evolved' people alone...""Better" is an opinion that has no real basis.
I used to worry because I have a lot of squares in my chart, on a site that interprets your chart it kept saying
for my squares things like "he is unfaithful", "he is narrow minded", "he can't make up his mind in love" andmore. Later I read something that said that squares provide motivation and that this motivation can be used
to overcome those conflicts.
I also read something that said that in overcoming our inner conflicts we somehow solve problems around us.
Perhaps, problems that were around even before us. Perhaps, problems that made us the way we are.
Whereas astrology didn't make us this way, it justed predicted that we would be this way. After all, astrology
is how one's inner world relates to our outer world.
You cannot blame because blame can be an unending chain. Hence, our bias of the statement of being "highly
evolved" should be non-existent.
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dog8818
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #112 - on: 02.07.2009 at 23:50 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 01.07.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1]:
I think the inventor of this mind-reading demonstration is quite evolved:
http://drdemento.com/games/mindtrick/See if it works for you. (you can do it more than once just to check he isn't just guessing).

oh, MEH! What's the "trick"?
I will throw my opinion in with the rest:
Posts: 2645
Gender:If there is a "highly evolved" persona, I see it as a person who has integrated their G issues and no longer
whines or overcompensates or avoids - has basically accepted what they need to accept with grace. They nolonger need to compete in order to "win", if they do compete it is to master something within themselves, winor lose has no meaning. They take nothing personally; events in this world flow through them without
emotional reaction (and here's where it's tricky, because this is also the mark of a depressive personality). They
maintain a belief in the system of the Universe and project that optimism outward - they use their F in a waythat ultimately benefits mankind, even if it's just the man across the street and no one else ever benefits fromtheir largesse. Criticism is a useless vocation, and guilt and jealousy have become useless emotions, therefore
they have mastered the art of detachment (O). If they mis-step, there is remorse, but then forgiveness, aswell as granting others the same consideration. It becomes ultimately important to them to express love andacceptance at every opportunity, rather than judgment and argument. They practice the art of spiritual aikido,
which is a I function.

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dog8818

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #113 - on: 02.07.2009 at 23:56 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 02.07.2009 at 21:48 [UT+1]:

Is this the fault of men who can't keep their pants zipped up or the women who tempt them?

Is this the fault of the people who kill or the people that piss them off?
Is this the fault of the people who molest and rape or the people that trigger their "need"?
Is this the fault of the people that lie or the people that ask them the question?
Is this the fault of the people .....
Posts: 2645
Gender:I'm looking at the Man in the Mirror......

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Stephen Baxter
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #114 - on: 03.07.2009 at 00:32 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 02.07.2009 at 21:48 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 02.07.2009 at 20:59 [UT+1]:
Quote from Juliet Morgan on 02.07.2009 at 20:20 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 02.07.2009 at 19:47 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 19:10 [UT+1]:
What surprises me is that astrologers are surprised at the news like that abouthuman nature

I agree this shabby behavior is common, but this particular man had a very different reputation
than that. He is a character I am familiar with.

Yes, wasn't he one of the key players in exposing Bill Clinton's affair?

Yes, they recently aired his condemnation of Bill Clinton from those days. Sad and irritating. Remember how Newt Gingrichdid the same; it later came out he was cheating on his wife while the impeachment was progressing.

Is this the fault of men who can't keep their pants zipped up or the women who tempt them?

Very clearly in these cases mentioned above, it is the fault of the men. I have no defense for them and I don't
want to defend them. It is not easy to be faithful perhaps, but not impossible. You gotta be responsible.
I am not being a prude. I am thinking of the loved ones who get hurt, and I know it is big pain.
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Stephen Baxter

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #115 - on: 03.07.2009 at 00:35 [UT+1] »Quote from dog8818 on 02.07.2009 at 23:56 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 02.07.2009 at 21:48 [UT+1]:

Is this the fault of men who can't keep their pants zipped up or the women who tempt them?

Is this the fault of the people who kill or the people that piss them off?
Is this the fault of the people who molest and rape or the people that trigger their "need"?
Is this the fault of the people that lie or the people that ask them the question?
Is this the fault of the people .....
I'm looking at the Man in the Mirror......

Amen, Bro'I'm talkin to the Man in the Mirror,
I'm asking him to change his wa-ays,
I'm thinkin can't be any clearer,........Change!
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solarwind
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #116 - on: 03.07.2009 at 00:48 [UT+1] »it becomes ultimately important to them to express love and acceptance at every opportunity, rather than
judgment and argument.
wasnt jesus quite argumentative and angry at certain people

yeah he was loving to some and the opposite

to others.....he was supposedly that highly evolved one if not the" god's son" whatever or neither....
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Stephen Baxter

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #117 - on: 03.07.2009 at 00:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 02.07.2009 at 23:24 [UT+1]:
Quote from SeaGoat72 on 02.07.2009 at 22:43 [UT+1]:
Returning to the question of whether there are indications of "highly evolved" in the chart.
How many astro twins Buddha or Christ or any other candidate for "evolved" could have had? Not all those people turned
out to do so well.
Any thoughts how to explain that?

Sure. It's not in the chart.

I agree. There's more to you than the chart. You saw an opportunity, your chart; you took the opportunityand now you've got to make the best of the tendencies that come with that chart.
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #118 - on: 03.07.2009 at 01:04 [UT+1] »Wanna see a scary chart? Madame Curie, Marie Curie.
"When one thinks of what she could have done with such a s chart, one has to be astonished at her will to do
good.."--Martin Seymour-Smith
What about the others born near that time?
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Curie%2C_Marie
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rookishMember

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #119 - on: 03.07.2009 at 01:13 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 02.07.2009 at 21:17 [UT+1]:
My lack of god comes through and is why I don't equate with these value judgments. I don't see that any of this actually matters at all.
What does it matter if 'Fred' is 'highly evolved'? In the vastness of the universe, of space and time, does it matter if he lives simply,
uneducated, unknowingly? Does it matter if he is a shaman? Does it matter if he is a master criminal doing dastardly deeds? The only
thing that this matters to is that nebulous thing 'society' that needs controlled behaviours to be in place, even with some deviation on thepart of some individuals, to sustain order. We could see the 'highly evolved' as those that have learnt andaccepted the cultural lesson to the extent that they have embodied consideration for others,
following the rules (principles) etc and hence are more highly constrained in their behaviours by
Posts: 3675

acceptance and application of rules internally (internal locus of control) (Saturn?) presumably
because it enables them to do other things that they want to do, by getting on with others. Thosethat are considered more 'lowly evolved' then are those that need prodding to accepting thecultural rules/laws and have not internalised or embodied those rules, but are more impulsive
and intuitive and adaptable to environment, and they are doing what they want to do. So it amounts
to a degree of socialisation. Now isn't it interesting that we accept highly and lowly as being judgments on better and worse, but the actual
behaviours themselves associated with those judgments are converse to what this Western society would currently value. We have a poorview of people that are rule bound. We are fascinated by people that break the rules and do what they feel they want to, we see that as
good. I think we are culturally confused (acceptance and consideration association with wisdom and age; rebellion and individualism withyouth; veneration of youth; invisibility of the old). But mostly, this value judgment is unhelpful.
i am not sure you deliver your point quite clearly...

who said that the society's rules and laws are always right :that's a bit of a nonsense... in some islam

societies stoning to death is acceptable.... the numerous societies created laws and rules throughout the history that were based on
prejudices and envy... 99.9% of population have no idea about the order of the universe and you expect to live by their rules
nonsense....
the humanity is far away overall from any ideal... the humanity can continue to be their little greedy petty clueless self but it wont take it
anywhere because they are poor things are confused....

Thanks for pointing to something unclear.
You are right that every culture has variations in rules and laws. I didn't mean to suggest that because
something is socially agreed that it is right - I have no judgment on right or wrong because for me, culture justis - variation in culture is interesting, and you see the same kinds of ideas in all cultures with different
expressions. I'm talking more about the capacity of an individual to live within their society by accepting or
embodying the prevailing social rules and laws regardless what those rules are. The more that you can adopt
those ideas, express them, talk about them and use them to make reason for behaviour and action, the more
knowledgable and educated you appear to be. There are a lot of anthropological writings about being within
and without society, deviance and capacity to act which I think is telling here.
I'm with Dogg (hi!) - G seems implicated here.
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IP Loggedlynnifer
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #120 - on: 03.07.2009 at 03:47 [UT+1] »Quote from Gene Ray on 01.07.2009 at 19:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 01.07.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1]:
I think the inventor of this mind-reading demonstration is quite evolved:
http://drdemento.com/games/mindtrick/See if it works for you. (you can do it more than once just to check he isn't just guessing).

Hello Realworld
I figured it out right away. Does that mean I am evolved? (ha)GeneSorry, I know this is off-topic and you are all having a really intelligent and evolved conversation here.
But I have to know how this works!!!

Sorry I'm blonde.

Gene, What's the trick? I am clearly an amoeba on the scale of 'highly evolved' human beings.
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realworld

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #121 - on: 03.07.2009 at 04:17 [UT+1] »Quote from dog8818 on 02.07.2009 at 23:56 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 02.07.2009 at 21:48 [UT+1]:

Is this the fault of men who can't keep their pants zipped up or the women who tempt them?

Is this the fault of the people who kill or the people that piss them off?
Is this the fault of the people who molest and rape or the people that trigger their "need"?
Is this the fault of the people that lie or the people that ask them the question?
Is this the fault of the people .....
I'm looking at the Man in the Mirror......

I don't see a direct analogy between extra marital sex and murder, rape or lying, but I see where you're coming
from. I'm glad that Stephen thinks it's all the man's fault, because it kind of gets women off the hook after alittle incident in the Garden of Eden with a tree and a snake.
Anyway, before we hijack this thread completely, I thought you'd like this:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/congressman_offers_preemptive
BTW, I'm glad you solved Dr. Dimento's mind-reading demonstration so quickly dog8818; I was stumped for awhile and thought he was doing it with his highly evolved clairvoyant (but humble) Uranus-Neptune-Moon
quincunx his progressed Nodes, forming a kite with the Moon and Pluto in his Draconic chart (relocated).
lynnifer: write down the cards
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lynnifer
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #122 - on: 03.07.2009 at 04:17 [UT+1] »Oh, dear. How embarrassing! I should never have admited I was blonde.

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lioninrain

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #123 - on: 03.07.2009 at 04:42 [UT+1] »I was trying to find something on this site, and couldn't - there are just way too many of them.
Anyway, I thought maybe some of you may find this relevant. I think he's right on
By Kirshnamurti in 1954- he gets pretty wordy, but if you scroll to about the last 2 paragraphs, you can prettymuch skim or skip a lot of it and still get the jest of it.
Posts: 1554
Gender:http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/the_collected_works_of_j.krishnamurti_vol_8/195 4-0522_new_york_1st_public_talk_22nd_may_1954.html(Last Paragraph)"All this one can observe in oneself. You don't have to go to any philosopher, to any teacher, or belong to anygroup. Your various groups are limiting, confusing, contradicting each other, they create animosity though theytalk of brotherhood. If one knows, that truth cannot be found through any person, through any book, throughany religion, that reality comes into being only when the mind is utterly still, that stillness can come only with
self-knowledge, and that self-knowledge cannot be given to one by another but has to be discovered for oneself
from moment to moment - then, surely, there comes a tranquillity of mind which is not death, a peace which isreally creative, and it is only then that the eternal can come into being. "May 22, 1954
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realworld
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #124 - on: 03.07.2009 at 04:49 [UT+1] »Quote from lynnifer on 03.07.2009 at 04:17 [UT+1]:
Oh, dear. How embarrassing! I should never have admited I was blonde.

When I first came across this card trick a few years ago I was worse than blonde, I was trying to figure out if
there was some sort of mechanism on the website (not that one) which was detecting my mouse movements.
Then I thought that the people who devised it were mathematicians using the laws of averages, chance andgame theory, or psychologists doing research on people's favorite card suit and court card.
I think the whole thing demonstrates the power of belief. It's a shame that Dr. Dimento presents it as a "trick"rather than a "demonstration", because if you tell people that it's a demonstration of mind-reading, I think that
more people are going to believe it and not look for the trick.
Needless to say, I see a lot of this happening in astrology, and especially on the forum. It is known as subjective
validation - if we strongly believe in an idea, we will find "evidence" for that idea in the outside world, but oftenthat "evidence" is nothing more than coincidence or "post hoc fallacy":
http://www.skepdic.com/posthoc.html
This would all really go better in one of the more skeptically minded threads. Sorry to have diverted theconversation once again from from highly evolved people like Buddha. Highly evolved as I'm sure he was, I
don't think his statues are a good example for kids who are in danger of becoming obese. If he lived today hewould probably be told to change his diet and exercise more.
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Stephen Baxter

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #125 - on: 03.07.2009 at 05:12 [UT+1] »Quote from dog8818 on 02.07.2009 at 23:50 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 01.07.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1]:
I think the inventor of this mind-reading demonstration is quite evolved:
http://drdemento.com/games/mindtrick/See if it works for you. (you can do it more than once just to check he isn't just guessing).

oh, MEH! What's the "trick"?
I will throw my opinion in with the rest:
If there is a "highly evolved" persona, I see it as a person who has integrated their

G issues and no longer whines or overcompensates or

avoids - has basically accepted what they need to accept with grace. They no longer need to compete in order to "win", if they docompete it is to master something within themselves, win or lose has no meaning. They take nothing personally; events in this world flow
through them without emotional reaction (and here's where it's tricky, because this is also the mark of a depressive personality). They
maintain a belief in the system of the Universe and project that optimism outward - they use their

F in a way that ultimately benefits

mankind, even if it's just the man across the street and no one else ever benefits from their largesse. Criticism is a useless vocation, andguilt and jealousy have become useless emotions, therefore they have mastered the art of detachment ( ). If they mis-step, there isO

remorse, but then forgiveness, as well as granting others the same consideration. It becomes ultimately important to them to express love
and acceptance at every opportunity, rather than judgment and argument. They practice the art of spiritual aikido, which is a

I function.

This is the most profound thing I've heard in a long time.
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IP Loggedsolarwind
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #126 - on: 03.07.2009 at 06:06 [UT+1] »It becomes ultimately important to them to express love and acceptance at every opportunity, rather than
judgment and argument.
human so human....the stupidity hate greed jealousy and ignorance always seek for an excuse, cant be loved or
accepted....no need to argue or judge just have to be fixed... but not to be loved and accepted....
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dog8818

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #127 - on: 03.07.2009 at 08:00 [UT+1] »Yeah, I'm so profound I confound myself daily...
Well, the man that was ultimately the catalyst for my own spiritual evolution, which continues to this day and, I
expect, will always... died today -- poof, his energy exited the System to parts unknown. Here was someone
that, looking at his chart, you'd think was very highly evolved and judging by the 5 tapes he left me totranscribe which contain his ruminations on life, I'm thinking he believed he was.
My point is this: you can go to church, pray to your god, or your avocado plant, whichever.... you can urp up
the talk but if you can't walk the walk in front of your own family, which of course is the ultimate test, then you
are just a poser.
Posts: 2645
Gender:I'm pretty sure I'm a poser because I don't HAVE a family (not married, so nobody drives me crazy on an
everyday basis, which is the ultimate in Fostering Spiritual Evolvement if ever I saw it) and therefore I just get
to talk about it and practice around friends and strangers... my father was the kindest soul to strangers andacquaintances and then would come home, line us up and annihilate us verbally.
The chart just goes to show that perhaps it ain't the woman scorned that hell hath no further like, it's thePisces horribly disillusioned and disappointed..... and I do believe that D&D can be a recipe for becoming abetter person, but it's that fork in the road that one sets his foot upon ultimately.....that determines whether
one climbs up or down that spiral. That, and how well you can tolerate a spouse telling you the same story forthe 122th time without completely losing your mind. I failed utterly. No mind left.

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dad-died.gif (attachment deleted)
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SelenaEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #128 - on: 03.07.2009 at 09:04 [UT+1] »Quote from lynnifer on 03.07.2009 at 03:47 [UT+1]:
Quote from Gene Ray on 01.07.2009 at 19:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 01.07.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1]:
I think the inventor of this mind-reading demonstration is quite evolved:
http://drdemento.com/games/mindtrick/See if it works for you. (you can do it more than once just to check he isn't just guessing).

Hello Realworld
I figured it out right away. Does that mean I am evolved? (ha)GeneSorry, I know this is off-topic and you are all having a really intelligent and evolved conversation here.
But I have to know how this works!!!

Sorry I'm blonde.

Gene, What's the trick? I am clearly an amoeba on the scale of 'highly evolved' human beings.

the trick....? pay attention to the other cards too, not only the selected one... is the first series of cards similar
to the second one?
yes, maybe a bit similar otherwise it is a totally different set of cards ... C, thetrickster on duty...
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lynnifer

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #129 - on: 03.07.2009 at 09:19 [UT+1] »Dog, I'm really sorry about your Dad.
I hope you are ok.

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IP Loggedlynnifer
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #130 - on: 03.07.2009 at 09:21 [UT+1] »Quote from Selena on 03.07.2009 at 09:04 [UT+1]:
Quote from lynnifer on 03.07.2009 at 03:47 [UT+1]:
Quote from Gene Ray on 01.07.2009 at 19:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 01.07.2009 at 18:43 [UT+1]:
I think the inventor of this mind-reading demonstration is quite evolved:
http://drdemento.com/games/mindtrick/See if it works for you. (you can do it more than once just to check he isn't just guessing).

Hello Realworld
I figured it out right away. Does that mean I am evolved? (ha)GeneSorry, I know this is off-topic and you are all having a really intelligent and evolved conversation here.
But I have to know how this works!!!

Sorry I'm blonde.

Gene, What's the trick? I am clearly an amoeba on the scale of 'highly evolved' human beings.

the trick....? pay attention to the other cards too, not only the selected one... is the first series of cards similar to the second one?
yes, maybe a bit similar otherwise it is a totally different set of cards ...
classical

C trick...

Yes, did get it in the end, Realworld gave me the tip.
Thanks Selena.
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IP Loggedcris claire

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #131 - on: 03.07.2009 at 12:58 [UT+1] »Spiral,Re a spiral and "higher up and further out. But also deeper in at the same time".
Can you elaborate please, I'd really like to 'get this', what is higher, further, deeper? do you mean knowledge,
awareness, experience? How does further out and deeper work? As a child I had repeated nightmares about aspiral, or was it a labyrinth......strange I know.

I can only think that 'highly evolved' would show in the highest, most refined expression of the planets in thechart, there again I suppose a 'bag lady' or drug addict might be as highly evolved as a great artist or priest.
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IP Loggedcris claire
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #132 - on: 03.07.2009 at 14:20 [UT+1] »dog8818
I have just read your post above and am sorry about your father's death.
I don't think that marriage is always the best way to evolve spiritually. I 'married' and think it has stunted asmuch as enhanced my own evolution. Being too hard on yourself maybe. All the best.
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SeaGoat72

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #133 - on: 03.07.2009 at 15:43 [UT+1] »Very sorry about your Dad, Dog.

To Cris Claire:
It can be argued that one of the main goals of spiritual evolvement is the expansion of consciousness. Moving
away from pure self-interest towards consideration of interests of other people is a step forward.
Living in a partnership with another person forces to witness and experience "the Other" - their pain, happiness,sorrow and aspirations. These interactions do limit the freedom of ego. Ego always fights back, and this battle
is the whole point of evolution, probably. To see how you behave, which choices are made, how well can you
balance.
The Descendent is the lesson we learn from "the Other" - the sign on the 7th house cusp, it is like a mirror.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that people expect ideal behaviour from their partners, but why? Love isstronger than egoism, and when this initial boost of energy dissipates ego takes over again.
Then the real work begins - mutual overcoming of difficulties.
This is not to say that relationships cannot have an "expiry date"... Impossible to discuss the topic without
references to the concept of karma!
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Ceto*
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #134 - on: 03.07.2009 at 16:15 [UT+1] »Relationships are so difficult. You see yourself defined by someone else, through their eyes and still you seethem and you still have to lift yourself up and validate them, irrespective of what pain you have gone throughwith them.

Posts: 1458

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Spiral 28

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #135 - on: 03.07.2009 at 16:28 [UT+1] »Quote from Cris Claire: Spiral,
Re a spiral and "higher up and further out. But also deeper in at the same time".
Can you elaborate please, I'd really like to 'get this', what is higher, further, deeper? do you mean knowledge,
awareness, experience? How does further out and deeper work? As a child I had repeated nightmares abouta spiral, or was it a labyrinth......strange I know.
Posts: 3639
Gender:I can only think that 'highly evolved' would show in the highest, most refined expression of the planets in thechart, there again I suppose a 'bag lady' or drug addict might be as highly evolved as a great artist or priest.

Cris, as has pointed out here in this thread that asks if being evolved might show up in the chart, each of us
has our own beliefs depending on what we have read and studied over the years, and then sat down andapplied it to our chart interpretations and research. I remember drawing a huge spiral on a big poster board
after three books struck the deepest chord in my understanding, "Moon Phases" by Dane Rudhyar, "TheVision" by W.B. Yeats, and "Phases of the Moon ; A Guide to Evolving Human Nature" (the best one) by Marilyn
Busteed, Richard Tiffany, and Dorothy Wergin, 1974, Berkeley, California, and London, England.
I put the name and Moon Phase birth of each person in my extended family which gave the number of degrees
between their Sun and the Moon around the 360 degree circle, as my daughter born after New Moon was atthe 10th degree of the circle from the Sun, and my son at Full Moon was at the 187th degree from the Sun,and I am at the 334th degree of my Moon from my Sun, Moon 12 Taurus and Sun 18 Gemini. What I saw
was stunning. Almost everyone else in my family was on the opposite side of the circle from me, most born
between New Moon and Full Moon, a few furthur on.
seeing why our priorities were so different..

Known as the black sheep of the family, I was finally"Furthur in" comes when one has a birth of the Moon being past the 300th degree from the Sun, her focus
becomes less concern of achieving success in the outer material ego world and more on discovering the inner
illuminations in spiritual studies, philosophy, character agendas, and seeing a larger picture of why we are here
and what we can do to make everyone less violent or limited. .
I realize others may not believe in the ever evolving life incarnations going on and on. But we could not
possibly learn every lesson we need to evolve in just one life, live every experience that needs to be achallenge, work out every bit of karma that we have accumulated over past lives with others, or display forothers all of the talents we have focused on. There must be different times for these to come to the surface
to help us evolve, in different lives.
Our chart does show who is evolved in this one Round of the circle by our Moon Phase at birth, as the ancient
tribes knew who planned their lives by the Moon. But evolved does not mean "better than you", it means I am
here finishing up the circle and you are there in the middle of it with different priorities, but you were where I
was now just half a circle ago, and I was where you are now, and maybe you have been where I am manytimes more than I have if you evolved faster, and maybe your spiral is much higher and furthur out than mine,maybe not. We don't know except by our actions and purposes.
It must be connected to our DNA and our soul memories we inherit from our ancestors. The shape of DNA
should be studied from this point of view. A long continuing Spiral that goes on and on. Our "soul" may be
the lessons and memories of the past that we are born with to improve upon and to help others with what wehave learned. And spreading out in front of you the birthcharts of your ancestors to see that their birthdegrees match yours once or twice if you inherited from that River of your family tree.
So your question of "higher up and furthur out" at the same time "furthur in" has to do with all of these things.
The more you evolve around the circle each Round of lives, from New Moon birth to ending of the Dark of theMoon, the higher your spiral rises above the previous place in that circle where you were last Round maybe two
thousand years ago.
So the last time I was here at my Moon 334 degrees past the Sun , it wasn't the same circle I am in now, it
was smaller within the circle I am now going through, but we are controlled by the Center of our spiral thatcreated us in the beginning which is furthur in from our journey and yet stronger in power giving us more
understanding and depth. We do not travel in a real circle, we travel in a spiral, always rising higher than thelast spiral.
This how everything in the Universe travels. "As above, so below."
The Center of creation controls it all, and the furthur we go out in the spirals, the more we are in connection
with our Center furthur in because we are more aware of a Universal pattern or plan that moves us all along.
The bag lady or drug addict may be anywhere in the circle, perhaps at the most evolved place for that Round,but they are not listening to their Center, they shut it out. We fight against our better selves again andagain, moving from our animal past to our spiritiual future. Giving in to fear to push ourselves to moveahead.

We waste a lot of lives.

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #136 - on: 03.07.2009 at 16:28 [UT+1] »I'm starting to think 'spiritual evolvment' as a personal goal is a bit suspect.
We are all sitting alone at our computers, many of us living miles away from our extended families. One smallfamily in our big (relatively) comfortable homes, doors shut, fenced off from our neighbours. Putting so many
expectations onto a relationship with one 'significant other'.
In other cultures, not so affluent as our own, extended families live and work together in tiny dwellings, sharing
their space with many people every minute of their day. I lived in a small village in Asia for a while, and I think I
met more 'spiritually evolved' people in that one village than I have in my whole life. Everyone is responsible
for everyone else in this kind of environment, there is no privacy, no choice of spiritual paths. They generally
co-operate with and love those next to them, because it doesn't occur to them not to. There is no room forego's. But there is tolerance.......tolerance in order to survive. Just the constant proximity of others forces akind of speeded up spiritual evolution. And when survival is pressing, we need each other......alone we perish.
I found it impossible to stay, because I am culturally imprinted to be 'self' orientated rather than 'other'orientated. I was ashamed to realise this. But I will always remember how the old people were constantly
smiling, and how much the young people loved them. How the babies hardly ever cried, and children were free
to roam.
Perhaps we should be looking at indicators in the chart for being born into a 'spiritual kindergarten' incarnation,otherwise known as western life.
We are like babies in comparison. Faffing around with our clever ruminating. Twiddling with our belly-buttons,
as my Mum would say.
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IP Loggedcris claire

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #137 - on: 03.07.2009 at 16:33 [UT+1] »I take what you are saying SeaGoat and Cygnet, I have g on my 7th house cusp m GI. Maybe I have taken
on too much this time around.
I have experienced love beyond my own ego but more consistently and purely towards my children.

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Spiral 28
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #138 - on: 03.07.2009 at 16:34 [UT+1] »Lynnifer, the proof has to be in the pudding. It either works or it doesn't for all the charts you study.
are the priorites and character of that person?

What

The reason I think considering evolvement is valid in reading a chart is that too many of our cookie cutter
recipe astrology books give aspect readings that are based on violence, sex, mental problems, ambition, andmaterialism. Not everyone has these priorities. But to read the comments on this site, if they find a"difficult" aspect, they assume this person has them.
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lynnifer

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #139 - on: 03.07.2009 at 16:50 [UT+1] »Sorry Spiral your post wasn't there when I was typing mine.
Are you saying that the closer you are to being born on an approaching new moon, the more evolved you are?

So I am half way there, being born on the full moon? And my next question is; when you know from thecharts of family member and friends (or enemies) how far along on this circle they are, how does that
information effect the way you deal with them? And what is the purpose of knowing this information?
Also if my partner who is materialistic, and completely disinterested in any kind of spiritual path or knowledge,
and has his moon 356o from his sun, if he is on the home stretch of a lower level of the spiral to the next
person who has their moon 5o from their sun, then where is the indication of being 'spiritually evolved' or not?
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Ceto*
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #140 - on: 03.07.2009 at 17:00 [UT+1] »I think you must not judge yourself so harshly.
With economic upliftment comes a desire for more and sometimes that "more" cuts you off from the cultureand God of your youth. Who is to say that, that in itself is not a worthy path. Things are strange, there arepeople who know more than me and are on their path with more dedication than me.
But that is their path and this is mine and they will never walk it(my path), unless they are me.

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solarwind

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #141 - on: 03.07.2009 at 19:43 [UT+1] »Quote from lynnifer on 03.07.2009 at 16:28 [UT+1]:
I'm starting to think 'spiritual evolvment' as a personal goal is a bit suspect.
We are all sitting alone at our computers, many of us living miles away from our extended families. One small family in our big(relatively) comfortable homes, doors shut, fenced off from our neighbours. Putting so many expectations onto a relationship with one'significant other'.
In other cultures, not so affluent as our own, extended families live and work together in tiny dwellings, sharing their space with many
people every minute of their day. I lived in a small village in Asia for a while, and I think I met more 'spiritually evolved' people in thatone village than I have in my whole life. Everyone is responsible for everyone else in this kind of environment, there is no privacy, no
choice of spiritual paths. They generally co-operate with and love those next to them, because it doesn't occur to them not to. There is noroom for ego's. But there is tolerance.......tolerance in order to survive. Just the constant proximity of others forces a kind of speeded up
spiritual evolution. And when survival is pressing, we need each other......alone we perish.
I found it impossible to stay, because I am culturally imprinted to be 'self' orientated rather than 'other' orientated. I was ashamed torealise this. But I will always remember how the old people were constantly smiling, and how much the young people loved them. How
the babies hardly ever cried, and children were free to roam.
Perhaps we should be looking at indicators in the chart for being born into a 'spiritual kindergarten' incarnation, otherwise known as
western life.
We are like babies in comparison. Faffing around with our clever ruminating. Twiddling with our belly-buttons, as my Mum would say.

i agree with your concept about the western world as a spiritual kindergarten for the most part but as any
generalization it has some weaknesses....
it's funny how supposedly
the common law( the western law) considers itself the best and the mostadequate for humanity while the western civilization is in the spiritual infancy
having a choice and variety are the best gifts in life...not everyone has a mind and heart to manage itproperly....
managing them and making the best of them is not easy...the poverty may propel certain characters a bit fasteron the path of spirituality but it's not a prerequisite for spirituality....
no every lifetime we have to live surrounded by other people in the tight space...but in certain ways it helps tohave a healthy family i suspect...the variety experiences allows you to understand life better. i dont think thatthe poverty allows too many experiences and is the only passport to deep spirituality...our minds can exist
pretty much anywhere and it's true when we have too much on the material level there are more distraction...
but it's proven that it doesnt give satisfaction no matter how much you accumulate....i believe it's what we dodefines us more so than where we live....
being poor living on little it's just one of the lesson one of the lifetimes..

regarding spiral's post, i think she emphasized the concept of the spiral spiritual development... you may be in
9th cicrle in the full moon phase while let's say she is in the 5th but at the end of it.... it's another question toknow your level... it sounds like a video game... you ve just got upgraded after completing horrendous lifetime
with the moon at 359degrees
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SeaGoat72
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #142 - on: 03.07.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1] »Spirals are fascinatingfrom Norbert Wiener:(mathematician and pioneer of Cybernetics theory)"Pattern is the “organized complexity” from which all life was assembled and human beings ultimately emerged.
That pattern of organization is the touchstone of our personal identity. Our tissues change as we live; thefood we eat and the air we breathe become flesh of our flesh and bone of our bone...We are but whirlpools in ariver of ever-flowing water. We are not stuff that abides but patterns that perpetuate themselves."(Conway. 2005 p.310) http://spiralzoom.com/index.html

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Spiral-pattern_.jpg (attachment deleted)
IP Loggedcris claire

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #143 - on: 03.07.2009 at 20:16 [UT+1] »My dreams were of a knot in a tree trunk, truths everywhere, I think.

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SeaGoat72
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #144 - on: 03.07.2009 at 20:26 [UT+1] »One memorable mental image I have of a tree is that each separate branch is one of our many lives

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aquagirl

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #145 - on: 03.07.2009 at 20:57 [UT+1] »dog8818,
Sorry to hear of your loss...while reading your post I thought...
Now begins a whole new journey of your evolution...the disconnect and forgiveness of what was painful in yourrelationship with him and the empowerment that comes from seeing the tiny bits of beauty, the best parts ofhim, he has imparted on you alone. Been there, amazing gift.
Who is highly evolved? I have met 3 who claim to be. Dunno, but I found them all to be slightly delusional
really.

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debbieM
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #146 - on: 03.07.2009 at 21:09 [UT+1] »dog88: My condolences to you and your family.

I became a "orphan" when my mother passed in November of 1998, and my father a few years before her.
I never thought I'd dream of my father however, but I did very quickly and a few times, telling me about his"state".....he was in.
One of the dreams actually surprised me, (actually they all did) but the very first one really surprised me,
because it told me he had some good in him, and the life was "a wash'....so to speak. That surprised me.
Anyway, I know we go on. Some move faster vibrationally then others of course, I know my mother did quite
quickly....
Some linger for our entire lives (in the astral realms)......where they cling to thing they were attached to here inthis lifetime. Especially harmful of course the 7 so-called Deadly sins. Lust & Greed.

I saw he had J in d in his 3rd house, and this probably is the reflection of his tearing his own close circle of
loved ones to shreds.
Pray for him often, he'll need the prayers and good thoughts.
Here is a book I found online as I was thinking of ordering it.......but now after reading through what he has tosay in what they give us here, I think I will pass on it.
I don't think the man interpreted correctly after all what Cayce's intent was when he read of the
Astrological points in our lives and what actually is the spiritual birth vs the live physical one but I am (asusual) still open minded enough to consider his thesis,IF I don't have to pay for it.
but find it elsewhere orcheaper .
Funny how everytime someone comes out with a new idea or theory in astrology the price goes thorugh theroof and everyone stands in line pushing the price higher for the theory.
The book on Google Reader:(up to 74 pages) or half of the book:
Recommendations:
Use Sidereal (see pg. 61

Spiritual Birth Vs Physical birth (about 4 hours )page 26) & Use secondary progressions instead of transits

http://xrl.us/bezmga (Link to books.google.com)-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------difference between Sidereal (geographical) and Tropical (physiological)
IF anyone understands his mathematical input here, or has the book or read it, please explain it to the rest ofus.

I'm sure he's an excellent Astrologer who managed to get an endorsement from the AFA( and I see they
published his other books too) as well as the astrologer who did the Fixed Stars Study:
Ken Gillman (Considerations Mag), BUT I still think (the little I read here,) he also misinterprets the readings
and intent astrologically ........but maybe I'm wrong
and need to re-read to understand more fully what heis intending here? Perhaps someone who is quicker minded (to grasp something new)can explain to me what he is saying? ......I'd appreciate it.
http://www.paraview.com/willner/index.htm
Extract of endorsement:
REVIEWS“I am amazed that the precise moment when a spirit enters a baby’s body can be determined mathematically…
This is a very original book….A major objective of this book is to lay a foundation for the intelligent acceptanceof astrology by everyone…[Chapter 11] is another ‘must read’ that holds information not found anywhere else…
This book isn’t just recommended. Buy it. You’ll be astonished!” –Bonita L. Timins, AFA Research Journal
as for the so-termed, "Evolved soul" Cayce gave readings (over 14,000 of them) and only a handful, of under
25 people were told they had "no need to return" to this plane. I once did a thread here and posted their natal
charts to study.
Perhaps then what was missing, was this 4 hour interval? .........because their natal charts did not show

anything all that extraordinary at all.. As I recall now, on that thread, Joe (Vedic astrologer) and a few others
helped out and did also scratch their heads a bit, but did find some indicators (Vedic wise)of evolved souls.

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debbieM

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #147 - on: 03.07.2009 at 21:31 [UT+1] »Here is another book by this man Willner...Has anyone heard of him or his theories??
Book is called, "The Rising Sign Problems"
http://www.astroamerica.com/ascend.html

Comment: An excellent, detailed, overview of the ascendant in the natal chart. Each of the twelve zodiacal sign
chapters includes Physical Attributes, Mental Attributes, and Sample Charts (three nativities per rising sign). An
emphasis is placed on the physical appearance of natives with each ascendant. Willner himself gives no picturesof what each ascendant is supposed to look like, but books that do can be found at Astrological Body Types.
Examples chosen (Einstein, Lucille Ball, Julia Child, etc.) for the most part do not have agreed-upon birthtimes
nor ascendant signs. Willner chose them precisely to demonstrate how an astrologer can determine the rightascendant & support his choice with hard evidence, including progressions.
For his rectifications, Willner uses an obscure (and unpublished) algorithm called INCARN, which uses the
positions of Sun, Moon & Uranus to calculate the correct ascendant. Willner says almost all charts, eventhose with precisely timed births, are incorrect, and while the statement is daring, his standards are
rigorous & grounded in traditional astrological analysis.
Of particular interest are his observation on underlying career motivation & intercepted houses. Interceptedhouses determine career, Willner says. To support this he conducts a brief, but most interesting analysis of
Placidus vs: Koch houses (Placidus wins). Since Willner believes that only one house system can be correct, it
would be interesting to see the same analysis used on other house systems. All-in-all, a book of merit that
repays close study.
AFA, 165 pages, oversize.
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IP Loggedcris claire
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #148 - on: 03.07.2009 at 22:04 [UT+1] »Quote from lynnifer on 03.07.2009 at 16:28 [UT+1]:
I'm starting to think 'spiritual evolvment' as a personal goal is a bit suspect.
We are all sitting alone at our computers, many of us living miles away from our extended families. One small family in our big(relatively) comfortable homes, doors shut, fenced off from our neighbours. Putting so many expectations onto a relationship with one'significant other'.
In other cultures, not so affluent as our own, extended families live and work together in tiny dwellings, sharing their space with many
people every minute of their day. I lived in a small village in Asia for a while, and I think I met more 'spiritually evolved' people in thatone village than I have in my whole life. Everyone is responsible for everyone else in this kind of environment, there is no privacy, no
choice of spiritual paths. They generally co-operate with and love those next to them, because it doesn't occur to them not to. There is noroom for ego's. But there is tolerance.......tolerance in order to survive. Just the constant proximity of others forces a kind of speeded up
spiritual evolution. And when survival is pressing, we need each other......alone we perish.
I found it impossible to stay, because I am culturally imprinted to be 'self' orientated rather than 'other' orientated. I was ashamed torealise this. But I will always remember how the old people were constantly smiling, and how much the young people loved them. How
the babies hardly ever cried, and children were free to roam.
Perhaps we should be looking at indicators in the chart for being born into a 'spiritual kindergarten' incarnation, otherwise known as
western life.
We are like babies in comparison. Faffing around with our clever ruminating. Twiddling with our belly-buttons, as my Mum would say.

Lynnifer,
When I was young, early teenage years, I felt alienated from my 'western' roots, not even that I felt I had roots
here. I remember thinking how strange the older men looked (1970s) with their grey faces and short haircuts.
I was attracted by Native American culture, I had spent years watching inaccurate 'Western' movies because
my Dad had; finally read Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee when I felt a kind of coming home. Then, moved on
to exploring Eastern religion and culture, mostly from a distance.
I have travelled to the Middle and Far East and although not feeling at home, a foreigner, have envied thestrong sense of culture and belonging and love and true acceptance of their children that I saw in the people
there.
I can only think that once seeing, even without looking outside of my own land, I wouldn't really belong
anywhere again, in a cultural sense anyway.

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Spiral 28

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #149 - on: 03.07.2009 at 22:05 [UT+1] »Lynnifer, my mother also had her Moon 356 degrees past her Sun and was completely uninterested in spiritualmatters.
I also knew a man whose Moon was almost to the degree of his Sun and was completely carelessand "crazy" riding on top of cars, etc, until he finally comimitted suicide. Both people had no opportunity to
study spiritual matters and had no air planets to indicate an interest in serious books or learning. But they feelthey are missing out on life somehow but they don't know why.

Posts: 3639
Gender:Both Yeats and the Phases book agree that this last phase just before New Moon is like wiping the slate clean,
to prepare for the period between Rounds where there is no rebirth or moon phase for a period of time,
although time obviously doesn't exist in the spirit. They do not need to contemplate on the philosophy of thespiritual studies, that is in the past and not necessary now. It becmes buried deep somewhere beyond theirreach.

They are just looking for what makes them happy day by day. It is like a life in limbo.

I'm trying to think of some well-known people who are here. Singer Bob Dylan. Golfer Tiger
Woods.

These late phases are considered difficult to live and understand.

I think it helps to think of the last Moon Phase like the last years or days of a long life in one of our parents or
grandparents. Take what comes, don't plan too far ahead, enjoy the moment, gradually forget the past andbe almost like a child again. All of the previous life influences must be forgotten by the end.
What you are looking for in spiritual awareness would be more likely to appear in the 50 degrees or so before
New Moon, where the teachers and philosophers and writers tend to be. Abraham Lincoln, Karl Marx, Dane
Rudhyar are here. Not the last 12 - 13 degrees, which is how long each Moon Phase lasts in the Round.
Your question about how to regard the family members who are not close to your phase. Doesn't it give
greater understanding why they can't "get" you and your priorities? You can think of you all in your family
watching a parade, but each person sees it from a different angle and can't understand what the others haveseen from theirs. New Moon may be on the sidelines jumping up and down screaming. First Quarter Moon
people may be refusing to go along with the idea of having a parade, and just glance at it critically.. Full Moon
people are in it riding an elephant or a float. Third Quarter Moon people planned the parade and are bossing
the groups before they start. Dark of the Moon people are up on the roof looking over the entire parade at
one time and admiring the colors all flowing together and the music drifting up like an echo.
But your question also can make one feel isolated from the others if you are different than other family
members in a wide separation of priorities. What the Moon Phase does is give you your script for living thislife that dominates your personality and actions no matter what your chart, but the chart should support theMoon Phase in some way. New Moon people often have some Aries, as my daughter does, and Dark of theMoon Balsamic Moon people should have some Pisces, as I do. Or the House positions which equal these,the 1st - 2nd Houses for New Moon and after it, the 11th-12th Houses for the last phases. Everything in mychart is in the 11th-12th except for three, and they support by aspect the 11th-12th.
I don't like being considered so different by my sisters, and I don't like to feel that my family doesn't
understand me, but at least you know why, it's not personal, it's astrology.
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solarwind
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #150 - on: 03.07.2009 at 22:21 [UT+1] »You can think of you all in your family watching a parade, but each person sees it from a different angle andcan't understand what the others have seen from theirs. New Moon may be on the sidelines jumping up anddown screaming. First Quarter Moon people may be refusing to go along with the idea of having a parade, andjust glance at it critically.. Full Moon people are in it riding an elephant or a float. Third Quarter Moon people
planned the parade and are bossing the groups before they start. Dark of the Moon people are up on the roof
looking over the entire parade at one time and admiring the colors all flowing together and the music drifting
up like an echo.
great analogy... but didn t you just say in the beginning that it's still depends on the planets and signs in achart...no air you are sort of SOL in matters of spirituality
some may have the dark moon phase but still
dont get it all...
can you determine the level on this spiral of development?
maybe someone with all elements air fire water earth with fixed mutable and cardinal houses full is thatcompletely evolve one
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IP Loggedcris claire

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #151 - on: 03.07.2009 at 22:36 [UT+1] »Spiral,Thank you for your explanation. It is clear to me that no one life can encompass all that is out there toexperience and know and give time to 'evolve' to all that we can be.
I have not looked at the moon's phases before in relation to the chart and am stupidly slow with new things
but will sit down and follow the explanations you have given. Thank you, will let you know how it goes.
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #152 - on: 04.07.2009 at 00:11 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 03.07.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1]:
Spirals are fascinatingfrom Norbert Wiener:(mathematician and pioneer of Cybernetics theory)"Pattern is the “organized complexity” from which all life was assembled and human beings ultimately emerged. That pattern oforganization is the touchstone of our personal identity. Our tissues change as we live; the food we eat and the air we breathe become
flesh of our flesh and bone of our bone...We are but whirlpools in a river of ever-flowing water. We are not stuff that abides but patterns
that perpetuate themselves."(Conway. 2005 p.310) http://spiralzoom.com/index.html

Fabulous link, Thankyou seagoat!
Mathematician Ian Stuart says "The most effective way for human beings to think about patterns is to use
mathematics. So we've convinced ourselves that the laws of nature are mathematical".
(emphasis mine).
Basically, I gather that we are all made up of the same stuff whether we are a star, a human, or a rock, ... so
could it be argued from that premise, that no-one is "highly evolved" ?
Then again, I believe humans have interfered with Nature, by "saving" Life that otherwise Nature would haveselectively destroyed had it not been for our human interference ... so in that sense, could it be stated that wemay really be "devolving" ourselves and Life?
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lynnifer

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #153 - on: 04.07.2009 at 00:34 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 03.07.2009 at 19:43 [UT+1]:

i agree with your concept about the western world as a spiritual kindergarten for the most part but as any generalization it has someweaknesses....
it's funny how supposedly

the common law( the western law) considers itself the best and the most adequate for humanity while thewestern civilization is in the spiritual infancy
having a choice and variety are the best gifts in life...not everyone has a mind and heart to manage it properly....
managing them and making the best of them is not easy...the poverty may propel certain characters a bit faster on the path of spirituality
but it's not a prerequisite for spirituality....
no every lifetime we have to live surrounded by other people in the tight space...but in certain ways it helps to have a healthy family isuspect...the variety experiences allows you to understand life better. i dont think that the poverty allows too many experiences and is the
only passport to deep spirituality...our minds can exist pretty much anywhere and it's true when we have too much on the material level
there are more distraction... but it's proven that it doesnt give satisfaction no matter how much you accumulate....i believe it's what we
do defines us more so than where we live....
being poor living on little it's just one of the lesson one of the lifetimes..

regarding spiral's post, i think she emphasized the concept of the spiral spiritual development... you may be in 9th cicrle in the full moonphase while let's say she is in the 5th but at the end of it.... it's another question to know your level... it sounds like a video game... youve just got upgraded after completing horrendous lifetime with the moon at 359degrees

Yes, I agree with all you've said. To be honest I was being a bit facetious in my post. Trying to shake things up
a little. I am offended by the very notion of discussing who is spiritually evolved....I think if your discussing it
you can be pretty sure you are not.
Its so obvious there is much ego and pride in these kinds of pursuits and discusssions.
I don't agree with Spiral, that if you reject materialism and read a lot of books on spirituality then you aresomehow 'better' than those who don't, even 'different' than those who don't, doesn't really work for me. Thisis pride and self-justification.
I have to say too, that I don't put Western Law on the same pedastal as you. The concept is great, the practiceof it.........mmm, dodgy, only as evolved as the people involved. Tribal law works really well some of the time,and some of the time not. Swings and roundabouts.

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Van Derek
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #154 - on: 04.07.2009 at 00:50 [UT+1] »I think evolution is a matter of perspective… if we consider how we are fucking up this planet’s environment andthen we consider individuals who are doing something about it… then we could say that those individuals arehighly evolved… i.e. Dr. David Suzuki, Co-Founder of the David Suzuki Foundation, an award-winning scientist,and environmentalist. there are lots of people like this in all walks of life.

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solarwind

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #155 - on: 04.07.2009 at 01:26 [UT+1] »it's ok to discuss WHAT is evolved but not who...discussing who is "more evolved" surely doesnt make toomuch sense... some folks dont quite have their minds straight about whats right and wrong the evolution
etc..... i doubt think the right and wrong changes in the evolutionary spiral....
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lynnifer
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #156 - on: 04.07.2009 at 01:31 [UT+1] »Quote from cris claire on 03.07.2009 at 22:04 [UT+1]:
I have travelled to the Middle and Far East and although not feeling at home, a foreigner, have envied the strong sense of culture andbelonging and love and true acceptance of their children that I saw in the people there.
I can only think that once seeing, even without looking outside of my own land, I wouldn't really belong anywhere again, in a culturalsense anyway.

That's exactly how I feel too, Cris claire. Somewhere between two worlds.
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sharasa

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #157 - on: 04.07.2009 at 04:26 [UT+1] »Anyone read the Tao Te Ching? The first verse translates roughly that the path that can be followed or named is
not the true path. I don't know that we could even recognize highly evolved let alone see it in a chart.
Seriously. I have a fixed GC, GT/kite in air and a "golden yod"- all planets and tight orbs. Astrologers can't
seem to agree on what those mean or articulate it if they do have some sense. If I believed everything I readon the net over the last 4-5 years I'd be thinking I was pretty special or doomed but I'm quite ordinary. If they
haven't been able to define patterns that are clearly there, how can they pinpoint an indicator for somethingthat means different things to different people.
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Van Derek
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #158 - on: 04.07.2009 at 07:21 [UT+1] »Quote from sharasa on 04.07.2009 at 04:26 [UT+1]:
Anyone read the Tao Te Ching? The first verse translates roughly that the path that can be followed or named is not the true path. I don't
know that we could even recognize highly evolved let alone see it in a chart. Seriously. I have a fixed GC, GT/kite in air and a "goldenyod"- all planets and tight orbs. Astrologers can't seem to agree on what those mean or articulate it if they do have some sense. If I
believed everything I read on the net over the last 4-5 years I'd be thinking I was pretty special or doomed but I'm quite
ordinary. If they haven't been able to define patterns that are clearly there, how can they pinpoint an indicator for something that means
different things to different people.

Posts: 684
Gender:Maybe you're doomed to be pretty special

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solarwind

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #159 - on: 04.07.2009 at 07:44 [UT+1] »i have this idea that the tightness of the orb only creates more urgency to follow certain path and narrow it inthis lifetime... narrows your choices limits your freedom....

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wonderland
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #160 - on: 04.07.2009 at 09:47 [UT+1] »I would like my say in this subject
My guess would be if you met a truly evolved being, he/she would say you are my equal and we are one andwould not love you less but bless you for the soul you are.
I think all of us take life to seriously. I think we came from greatness, are in greatness and return to greatness.
I think we are here to only experience.
How does this saying go?
The world is my stage and we are only mere actors.
In astrology speaking i don't think it would be aspects or placements that would indicate an evolving soul but
how you choose to express them.
express it from its lower so called vibrations ( hate, jealousy, revenge) or from higher vibrating energy's (caring,compassionate, understanding, forgiving)
thanksWonderland
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sharasa

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #161 - on: 04.07.2009 at 14:35 [UT+1] »Quote from DrKoo on 04.07.2009 at 07:21 [UT+1]:
Quote from sharasa on 04.07.2009 at 04:26 [UT+1]:
Anyone read the Tao Te Ching? The first verse translates roughly that the path that can be followed or named is not thetrue path. I don't know that we could even recognize highly evolved let alone see it in a chart. Seriously. I have a fixed
GC, GT/kite in air and a "golden yod"- all planets and tight orbs. Astrologers can't seem to agree on what those mean orarticulate it if they do have some sense. If I believed everything I read on the net over the last 4-5 years I'd be thinking I
was pretty special or doomed but I'm quite ordinary. If they haven't been able to define patterns that areclearly there, how can they pinpoint an indicator for something that means different things to different people.

Maybe you're doomed to be pretty special

Good one DrKoo. Just glad I came to astrology later in life when I was less likely to rely on others to define
myself. But the point I was trying to make was in reference to the original question. Sometimes I think we arefooling ourselves into thinking we "know" anything about a chart- we might get a general sense of some things
but our ability to define a person based on the chart is really quite limited. I suspect a lot of it is our desire to
be able to name things and thus measure how we compare. For me it comes back to creating a reality where
things "fit" because we see what supports our theory,whatever that may be. In these forums nothing makes
people lose interest in your chart any quicker than a reluctance to buy into their theory.
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Ed Falis
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #162 - on: 04.07.2009 at 15:16 [UT+1] »Quote from debbieM on 03.07.2009 at 21:31 [UT+1]:
Here is another book by this man Willner...Has anyone heard of him or his theories??...

The rising sign book is very good. Great reading for any astrologer.
The Perfect Horoscope book is another story. While the premise is plausible and it's a good and thoughtfulpresentation, the method is somewhat questionable. He is very insistent on using a particular method of
secondary progressions, while there are variants, so that leaves a big question mark regarding the results heobtains. I don't remember him mentioning to use sidereal - I'd have to find the book and look up thereferences you gave. I also have not tried the INCARN program. That's about all I know about it. In the end,
you wouldn't be wasting your time reading his material - he was a skilled and mature astrologer.
- Ed
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realworld

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #163 - on: 04.07.2009 at 17:57 [UT+1] »Happy Independence Day my American friends. I think that most of us would agree with Spiral28, who stateda few post back, that violence is something that we would want to overcome as "evolved" human beings.
Could anyone tell me, therefore, why so many Americans own guns? Please don't say because of the criminals,
because every gun-crime criminal once bought a gun from the same manufacturer as the law-abiding folks, andunder the same 2nd Amendment law which provides so-called "freedom" for everyone.
Simple down-to-earth evidence shows that America has the highest number of murders, gun-suicides and gunrelated crimes in the world. Wouldn't it be more "evolved" to finally ban guns for citizens?
Any thoughts?

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debbieM
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #164 - on: 04.07.2009 at 17:59 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 04.07.2009 at 15:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from debbieM on 03.07.2009 at 21:31 [UT+1]:
Here is another book by this man Willner...Has anyone heard of him or his theories??...

The rising sign book is very good. Great reading for any astrologer.
The Perfect Horoscope book is another story. While the premise is plausible and it's a good and thoughtful presentation, the method issomewhat questionable. He is very insistent on using a particular method of secondary progressions, while there are variants, so thatleaves a big question mark regarding the results he obtains. I don't remember him mentioning to use sidereal - I'd have to find the bookand look up the references you gave. I also have not tried the INCARN program. That's about all I know about it. In the end, you wouldn't
be wasting your time reading his material - he was a skilled and mature astrologer.
- Ed

Thanks for the feedback
As for the Sidereal, just read the link I provided above for the online google book, and you will
see he speaks of it as Cayce did, being superior. Or at least that is how his interprets Cayce,(which I'm having aproblem with, as though he understood what Cayce was talking about, which I kind of doubt really)........
Cayce's occassional hints of astrological delineations, are unique for sure, (no houses, or very very seldom evermentioned) maybe once or twice in 14,000 readings...
Seldom mentioning other factors we use all the time as well, leaning more towards (my opinion anyway), theRyland Redd understanding and Brahmic Vedic factors such as the Lokas.
I think the man was well intentioned of course, but sometimes I feel that the AFA or other organizations thathave some top astrologers who publish might be too quick to endorse without really understanding what theymight be saying.
Perhaps if I see the books he wrote as I said, "cheap", then I might peruse, as I do wonder about thephilosophy not the methodology however.
I see he was a scientist too.
Here is the link I was reading as far as I could read it:
The book on Google Reader:(up to 74 pages) or half of the book:Use Sidereal (see pg. 61

Spiritual Birth Vs Physical birth (about 4 hours )page 26) Use secondary progressions

http://xrl.us/bezmga (Link to books.google.com)
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debbieM

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #165 - on: 04.07.2009 at 18:10 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 04.07.2009 at 17:57 [UT+1]:
Happy Independence Day my American friends. I think that most of us would agree with Spiral28, who stated a few post back, that
violence is something that we would want to overcome as "evolved" human beings.
Could anyone tell me, therefore, why so many Americans own guns? Please don't say because of the criminals, because every gun-crime
criminal once bought a gun from the same manufacturer as the law-abiding folks, and under the same 2nd Amendment law which provides
so-called "freedom" for everyone.
Simple down-to-earth evidence shows that America has the highest number of murders, gun-suicides and gun-related crimes in the world.
Wouldn't it be more "evolved" to finally ban guns for citizens?
Any thoughts?

Because it's a Constitutional Right which we are very reluctant to give up.
It has a basis of course in the revolutionary way in the way in which the country was founded.
Moreover most people tend to feel that an unarmed citizenry can fall victim to an unscrupulous government.
Gun owners feel that to give up this Constitutional right would be allowing only the criminals to have arms andhave no means of self-defense.
Sometimes Rights are very hard gained, and quite easily lost.

Americans are really a very independent class of people who don't want to rely soley on the government for
self-protection.
That's the bottom line.
p.s. most criminals do not purchase, they steal.
It's not the guns that are violent, it's the people who use either guns or knives.
Knives are #2. Should we then ban knives?
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debbieM
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #166 - on: 04.07.2009 at 18:20 [UT+1] »http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_States

In a seminal article, "America as a Gun Culture," the noted historian Richard Hofstadter popularized the phrase
gun culture to describe America's long affection for the gun, embracing and celebrating the association of guns
and America's heritage.[7] Thus, the right to own a gun and defend oneself is considered by some, especiallythose in the West and South, as central to the American identity. This stems in part from the nation's frontier
history, where guns were integral to America's westward expansion, enabling settlers to guard themselves fromNative Americans, animals and foreign armies, and citizens assumed much responsibility for self-protection. The
importance of guns also derives from the role of hunting in American culture, which remains popular as a sport
in the country today.[8]This viewpoint has the least support in urban and industrialized regions.[8] A cultural tradition conflating
violence and gun ownership with the "redneck" stereotype has negatively affected opinions in such regions.[9]In 1995, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms estimated that the number of firearms available in the
US was 223 million.[10] About 25% of the adults in the United States personally own a gun, the vast majorityof them men.[11] About half of the adult U.S. population lived in households with guns.[12] Less than half of
gun owners say that the primary reason they own a gun is for self-protection against crime, reflecting a
popularity of hunting and sport-shooting among gun owners. As hunting and sport-shooting tends to favor
rural areas, naturally the bulk of gun owners generally live in rural areas and small towns.[11] This attributeassociates with low involvement in criminal violence, and therefore most guns are in the hands of people
who are unlikely to misuse them and who tend to not have criminal records.
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solarwind

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #167 - on: 04.07.2009 at 18:21 [UT+1] »ahh that 's so controversial... one thing is to have a right to carry guns which is good and another is to impose
on the these rights i dont mind people carrying guns the only problem that they should check a little bit
better for the psychological state....most of the murders committed by the mentally sick....
the advanced souls will most likely to CHOOSE not to carry guns.. they are not attached to life as much therest....
..giving people a choice to carry it actually i s quite an interesting moral choice....
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Ed Falis
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #168 - on: 04.07.2009 at 18:23 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 04.07.2009 at 17:57 [UT+1]:
Happy Independence Day my American friends. I think that most of us would agree with Spiral28, who stated a few post back, that
violence is something that we would want to overcome as "evolved" human beings.
Could anyone tell me, therefore, why so many Americans own guns? Please don't say because of the criminals, because every gun-crime
criminal once bought a gun from the same manufacturer as the law-abiding folks, and under the same 2nd Amendment law which provides
so-called "freedom" for everyone.
Simple down-to-earth evidence shows that America has the highest number of murders, gun-suicides and gun-related crimes in the world.
Wouldn't it be more "evolved" to finally ban guns for citizens?
Any thoughts?

All of the above is true. But a fair number of Americans, given the development of the country, often viewguns as a tool, and one to be treated with respect. Me, I'm not convinced that there's much of a role for themin today's society.
- Ed
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debbieM

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #169 - on: 04.07.2009 at 18:33 [UT+1] »My husband and I do not carry our guns. Although we happen to live in a State which gives us the legal right tobrandish and carry one, as long as it is not "concealed".....having it in a holster for instance is perfectly
acceptable in our State.
I recall once when I first moved to this State, that the local movie theater had been robbed, and a man wasgoing a bit beserk and slashing a few poeple, before he ran out of the theatre.
Someone happened to have his gun in his car (as many Arizona citizens do I'm sure),
and he was able to subdue the man with firing a shot to the leg., before the police were able to restrain him
and even get there.
The man was really seen as a hero.
This is just one example I can recall., but I don't see many people at all in this State with their unconcealed
guns or even in holsters around their waist.
That seems to have died out long ago, in Arizona. Perhaps IF I were to think more about it, I'd say that you'dneed to go down south near the Mexican border towns where the ranchers carry (or pack) their guns I'm sure in
holsters. I'd pretty much bet on it.
they have their cattle to protect down there and they will take their "Rights" very much to heart in this part of
the State.
This is near Tombstone Arizona, a "Town too tough to die",This is where you hear about Vigilantism.....which I'd be concerned about too.
when they try to protect theborders from Mexico. But I never hear of any responsible rancher killling any Mexican nationals either. I thinkthat is a very remote thing. Most just frighten them I suppose to turn around or hold them for the Border
Control Agents.
In 20 yrs. or so that i've lived here, I really don't hear much at all negative as much as good news about
people who saved others or themselves (from home invasions), where the gun was used that I would imagine
most homeowners here have.
In this State the law is written to give the Homeowner first consideration or benefit of the doubt, as opposed
to many East Coast cities, whereby you might end up both in jail for life, as well as long legal protracted cases
for defending your liberty, life or property.
Here the law is written quite differently then in the East or even in California where i think it's "against the law"
to have your gun in your car without a license.
Here (in Arizona) there is no need for a license to own and have an unconcealed gun.
It's just a Right of citiizenship.

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rookishMember

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #170 - on: 04.07.2009 at 19:14 [UT+1] »I know we're off on a detour, but this is interesting - hope the OP doesn't mind it briefly.
I find guns rather frightening. Coming from UK, the average citizen doesn't see a gun, let alone close up andprobably never touched one. You now see armed police at airports, but that is a relatively recent thing. WhenI lived in Europe, policeman with guns, border guards, teenage national servicemen taking their guns homewith them for the weekend - they all made me rather watchful and tense and less trusting of what was going onaround me.
Posts: 3675

You can see perhaps why we ask about the US gun culture, because being armed is so far away from ourexperiences.

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Rainbow Seeker

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #171 - on: 04.07.2009 at 19:17 [UT+1] »I guess you can't talk about "evolution" on this astrology board without having to talk about guns.
Probably the only truly , "highly evolved soul " on the planet is a dead man.
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solarwind
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #172 - on: 04.07.2009 at 19:21 [UT+1] »the only truly , "highly evolved soul " on the planet is a dead man.

or better s/he is just not here
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Just_meEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #173 - on: 04.07.2009 at 19:23 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 04.07.2009 at 18:21 [UT+1]:
ahh that 's so controversial... one thing is to have a right to carry guns which is good and another is to impose on the these rights i dont
mind people carrying guns the only problem that they should check a little bit better for the psychological state....most of
the murders committed by the mentally sick....
the advanced souls will most likely to CHOOSE not to carry guns.. they are not attached to life as much the rest....
..giving people a choice to carry it actually i s quite an interesting moral choice....

Well, that's an idea.
Finally a solution to California's economic problems.
The advanced soul squad could go door to door, car to
car and make spot judgments about sanity. Then, they could impose fines on all of the un-evolved.
I do not own a gun nor do I plan to own a gun. We have too many laws as it is. And they vary from State toState as Debs pointed out. Ignorance of the law is a crime.
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debbieM
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #174 - on: 04.07.2009 at 19:53 [UT+1] »Ref: do not own a gun nor do I plan to own a gun. We have too many laws as it is. And they vary from State
to State as Debs pointed out. Ignorance of the law is a crime.
That is for sure! Oftentimes an Arizona citizen will venture over the border into Mexico for a littler & r (recreation) at the beaches down there, cheaper then here and the closest beach there is to this dusty
desert. Closer then the California beaches.
And often an Arizona dumb citizens forgot they had a bullet or two from perhaps a target shooting range intheir glove compartment. And OFTEN they are thrown into a Mexican jail! Even a bullet is against the laws of
Mexico.
I would guess they leave their brains at home when they leave town
Every year we hear of this and every year they do it again.
This year there was a man in yesterday's paper 59 yrs. old who doesn't have health insurance in our great
country of 50 Million uninsured folks, so he shopped around for a Hip operation and ended up in India for it .
Satisfied very much so. However, when he saw the opportunity to go back for a "check up" and a kind of"tweak" to the operation he could have for FREE, he took this advantage and off he went.
He also put his gun and bullets into the suitcase.
Guess where he is now?
You guessed it, courtesy of the Indian government jail system.
His excuse? He was afraid of the violence towards Americans in India & Pakistan.....he heard about
I haven't heard of this at all, but he claims that was his reason, it wasn't that he forgot, he purposefully tookthem.

dumb bunny
http://avindia.blogspot.com/2009/07/valley-man-goes-to-india-for-hip.html
John McCain to the rescue?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Actually I do not believe for a moment that spiritual evolution has a darn thing to do with guns, knives oranything else that man has put a value upon.

It has only to do with one's HEART.......or lack of a heart and the motive and intent of the heart!
That is where the evolution takes place.
Look at Joshua, the mouthpiece of Moses,.........look at the wars perpetruated by Joshua in the old testment,
and then realize that Joshua according to Edgar Cayce .....is the SAME soul that was Jesus.
Just another identity.
All lives are happening at once, there is no "time".
This is what people do not quite get when they try to ascertain what possibly is soul's evolution.
It's ALREADY evolved.
Just the realization of this hasn't yet hit home, hence the reinscarnational lifetimes necessary to realize thisfact.
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IP Loggedrealworld

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #175 - on: 04.07.2009 at 20:07 [UT+1] »Quote from rookish on 04.07.2009 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
I know we're off on a detour, but this is interesting - hope the OP doesn't mind it briefly.
I find guns rather frightening. Coming from UK, the average citizen doesn't see a gun, let alone close up and probably never touched one.
You now see armed police at airports, but that is a relatively recent thing. When I lived in Europe, policeman with guns, border guards,
teenage national servicemen taking their guns home with them for the weekend - they all made me rather watchful and tense and lesstrusting of what was going on around me.
You can see perhaps why we ask about the US gun culture, because being armed is so far away from our experiences.

Yes, and growing up in England, I never heard anyone complain that the government was oppressing them ortaking away their rights or freedom.
Most of the pro gun arguments only spiral (the wrong way) into bigger and more deadly weapons. A personwith a knife can be subdued with a gun. A person with a handgun can be subdued with a machine gun. A
person with a machine gun can be subdued with a mortar gun. A person with a mortar gun can be subdued
with a tank. A tank can be blown up with a roadside bomb or a fighter jet. Fighter jets and the whole arsenal
can be blown eliminated with a nuclear weapon. Therefore, in order to finally feel safe, we should all own
nuclear weapons.
Personal responsibility aside, the banning knives argument has a logical flaw, because knives have both usefuland violent use (as do cars), but a gun is built solely for use in violence.
Also, the mental stability argument is very subjective. Some people think that astrologers are mentally
unstable.
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solarwind
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #176 - on: 04.07.2009 at 20:16 [UT+1] »the mental stability argument is very subjective. Some people think that astrologers are mentally unstable.
good reason for astrofolks not to own guns... not the best amendment in the us consitution a bit
outdated but having a right to protect yourself is still nice...
the better amendment perhaps would be that nobody has a right to bother an individual for any reason.
including govt...

govt should not have any right to impose on its people as much as anyone....
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Rainbow Seeker

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #177 - on: 04.07.2009 at 20:20 [UT+1] »I do not own a gun nor do I plan to own a gun. We have too many laws as it is. And they vary from State toState as Debs pointed out. Ignorance of the law is a crime.

Yeah but some of the laws as they are now are ...too restrictive...
Like in California, you can hardly carry a weighted stick for protection. You can carry a knife, maybe you caneven carry a Gun, you can carry a bat or golf clubs. But you can't carry a retractable baton, without apermit..like many other devices such as a weighted stick..its a felony.
Therefore, in order to finally feel safe, we should all own nuclear weapons.

Why not its our legal rights!
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Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #178 - on: 04.07.2009 at 21:41 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 04.07.2009 at 20:20 [UT+1]:
I do not own a gun nor do I plan to own a gun. We have too many laws as it is. And they varyfrom State to State as Debs pointed out. Ignorance of the law is a crime.
Yeah but some of the laws as they are now are ...too restrictive...
Like in California, you can hardly carry a weighted stick for protection. You can carry a knife, maybe you can even carry a Gun, you cancarry a bat or golf clubs. But you can't carry a retractable baton, without a permit..like many other devices such as a weighted stick..its afelony.

Therefore, in order to finally feel safe, we should all own nuclear weapons.
Why not its our legal rights!

Yep, Rainbow, I live in California. They will probably outlaw carrying coins, any day. I could do real damage withthat purse of mine.

Personal nukes.
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SeaGoat72

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #179 - on: 04.07.2009 at 22:33 [UT+1] »Was it Gourdgiev who said that humans are not being born with the soul - they have to develop it, grow it andnot take life for granted. We have to become. Thinking about guns in America supports this speculation, we arejust savages convinced that we already have a soul, nothing to be worried about.
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Just_meEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #180 - on: 05.07.2009 at 03:07 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 04.07.2009 at 22:33 [UT+1]:
Was it Gourdgiev who said that humans are not being born with the soul - they have to develop it, grow it and not take life for granted.
We have to become. Thinking about guns in America supports this speculation, we are just savages convinced that we already have a soul,nothing to be worried about.

I have serious respect for you Seagoat, yet, was it surprising that the subject was broached? On a thread aboutthe "highly evolved", a self-aggrandizing elitist use of astrology? Did the people that broached the subject livein America...No. Guns and Fireworks are intimately involved..so..a day of Fireworks. (A 3000 USD fine, in myfair city, if you dare use any of your own.) Will it be enforced? Unlikely. I had to convince a neighbor of mine by
the "art of persuasion", to cease the firecrackers in his tinderbox. I raised my actual eyebrows and stated thatno one is interested in our buildings being burnt to the ground for his amusement. He angled his head on adouble take...I am not a person that chooses to tell people what to do. He agreed to desist.
People also shoot guns in the air on the fourth in this berg. A kind of Ying/Yang.
Was it Gourdgiev? In some spelling, yes.
It simply is. No more and no less. It is what it is. I do not care how damn corny that sounds/is. People fromother places blithely predict that the continental "shelves" will shift in a few days and "we" will all die. Might thatbe wishful thinking? It is likely but to have that kind of pain wished on people? A bit odd.
Dunno..I will just watch those fireworks and the guns. Oh my, I might be trapped in a spaghetti western.
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realworld

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #181 - on: 05.07.2009 at 03:39 [UT+1] »Quote from Just_me on 05.07.2009 at 03:07 [UT+1]:
Did the people that broached the subject live in America...

Yes, I live in Los Angeles. Last month my daughter was car-jacked. A gang member put a gun to her head andthreatened to shoot her if she didn't hand over her wallet. She didn't have her wallet with her and pleaded withthe man to let her go. He took her car, which was found a week later. We are over the incident now, but pity
the victims who were not no lucky.
Try telling mothers who have lost children to guns that we are already as evolved as we're going to be.
I think that Sea Goat means Gurdjieff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurdjieff
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #182 - on: 05.07.2009 at 03:44 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 05.07.2009 at 03:39 [UT+1]:
Quote from Just_me on 05.07.2009 at 03:07 [UT+1]:
Did the people that broached the subject live in America...

Yes, I live in Los Angeles. Last month my daughter was car-jacked. A gang member put a gun to her head and threatened to shoot her if
she didn't hand over her wallet. She didn't have her wallet with her and pleaded with the man to let her go. He took her car, which was
found a week later. We are over the incident now, but pity the victims who were not no lucky.
Try telling mothers who have lost children to guns that we are already as evolved as we're going to be.
I think that Sea Goat means Gurdjieff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurdjieff

The problem you described was evil bastards. Take away the guns, they are still evil bastards. Will evil bastards
do evil things? Count on it. I swear guns did not make them evil bastards. Your argument, at that of manyothers, appears to be that if guns were gone, there would be no evil bastards.
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Van Derek

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #183 - on: 05.07.2009 at 04:54 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 05.07.2009 at 03:39 [UT+1]:
Quote from Just_me on 05.07.2009 at 03:07 [UT+1]:
Did the people that broached the subject live in America...

Yes, I live in Los Angeles. Last month my daughter was car-jacked. A gang member put a gun to her head and threatened to shoot her if
she didn't hand over her wallet. She didn't have her wallet with her and pleaded with the man to let her go. He took her car, which was
found a week later. We are over the incident now, but pity the victims who were not no lucky.

Posts: 684
Gender:Try telling mothers who have lost children to guns that we are already as evolved as we're going to be.

I think that Sea Goat means Gurdjieff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurdjieffthat's a new one... old goat maybe
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SeaGoat72
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #184 - on: 05.07.2009 at 04:56 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 05.07.2009 at 03:39 [UT+1]:

I think that Sea Goat means Gurdjieff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurdjieff

Yes, thank you Realworld, I meant him.
I agree with Stephen to a large extent, just banning guns won't help, there is something wrong with thecollective mentality also, in addition to the individual "evil bastard" symptomatics.
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SeaGoat72

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #185 - on: 05.07.2009 at 05:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Just_me on 05.07.2009 at 03:07 [UT+1]:
Oh my, I might be trapped in a spaghetti western.

Most likely, it is the Swiss spaghetti harvest 1957 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyUvNnmFtgI
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Van Derek
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #186 - on: 05.07.2009 at 05:19 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 05.07.2009 at 04:56 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 05.07.2009 at 03:39 [UT+1]:

I think that Sea Goat means Gurdjieff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurdjieff

Posts: 684
Gender:Yes, thank you Realworld, I meant him.
I agree with Stephen to a large extent, just banning guns won't help, there is something wrong with the collective mentality also,
in addition to the individual " evil bastard" symptomatics.

what are you going on about... and what has this to do with the topic... "Who is highly evolved"??? orastrology for that matter.
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SeaGoat72

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #187 - on: 05.07.2009 at 05:40 [UT+1] »Hi Dr Koo,
I am not a fan of Gurdjieff, however he has own opinion on "highly evolved".
On the topic of collective concern and astrology, I hope the Age of Aquarius brings about a change of attitude
and there will be less hype about state borders, flags, nationalism in general and quarrels about differences.
Either that, or the continental shelves that Just_me mentioned, will shift to take care of it.
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Spiral 28
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #188 - on: 05.07.2009 at 05:43 [UT+1] »There is so much anger and pain in this thread now. What I see connected to the subject of evolution is that
there is always a definite opposition to all energy, and as some evolve higher than ever before, at the sametime, many are descending lower than ever before.
In this shape :< = The top of the wedge is going up and the bottem of it is going down.

The point behind the moving lines is the evolutionary energy pushing them forward, some up and some down.
Just my theory, what I feel is happening.
Posts: 3639
Gender:Starting in the 1970's, I think the gulf between those who are peace loving began going up in evolvement
more quickly, and those who are full of violence and evil and filth are going down faster than ever before. It
was like we passed through some kind of cosmic door then.
Drug use increased faster, pornography became more readily available, protective boundaries which shieldedchildren from seeing "adult" content in movies and tv were erased,
and gangs who had carried knives now began carrying guns. In the library, I noticed that people became
hungry from blood, books that described crimes in detail, children wanted horror tales that were most violent,
it was a distinct shift in public taste.
The < lines are ever faster moving apart creating a gulf in the middle so large that will sooner or later result in
total separation, and then the lower line deteriorating downward will destroy themselves because no one else
will enable them to survive. It will not be a war, it will be total elimination of all the forces that bring fear
and violence to our society now.
The description of the Dec. 21, 2012 speeding up of time and energy as described by many researchers into the
Mayan astronomy models talks of the speeding up of evolution. What has taken one hundred years to advance
will take place in progress in one week, then one day, then one hour, then one minute. The model for this is
the earthworm whose circles are wide at the fat center but become smaller and smaller toward the point at theend.
The question for this thread was whether we can see the highly evolved in our birthcharts. Anyone has thepotential to grab onto the most positive potential of his or her chart's aspects and to improve what would help
more understanding and compassion, but the weaknesses and the stubborn aggressive cruelty that is ingrainedin some will never allow this to happen. I think it has as much to do with DNA inheritance from that spiral,much more than the one life birthchart.
We are on that path.

Our birthchart is the result of our last life and the ones before that.

Any weapon of violence is a choice on this path, the opposite choice being the weapons of education and agape
love. This movement to save the Earth will include saving the human race, getting rid of what pollutes it.
This is the real meaning of the Age of Aquarius. Pisces is too sympathetic and enabling and too much
Neptune. None of that when Uranus is in charge. Like the movement forward of the Universe itself which isalways evolving, everything in our Universe evolves, there is no sympathy to its destruction or to the fate ofwhat has started growing and must follow its own path, eliminating barriers along the way. As evolution
progresses faster and faster, those who cannot keep up will be pushed out, fall by the wayside, and be left
behind, destroyed.
Because that is the only way we can progress, which never stops, and so it will be.

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solarwind

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #189 - on: 05.07.2009 at 06:41 [UT+1] »spiral what do you think about cayce's ideas that our charts reflect our between lifetimes sojourns and its
synthesis not exactly our previous life though i would suspect our thoughts determined in many ways by ourcurrent life.......and that our thoughts just before we die and at the moment of death determine our next life?
these ideas have roots in the buddhist traditions and most of the religion offer confession for the similar
purposes i suspect...
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Van Derek
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #190 - on: 05.07.2009 at 07:20 [UT+1] »aha yes sorry I misinterpreted I literally thought the remark was “ Sea Goat means Gurdjieff “You make some nice point there spiral… very Zoroastrian… Gurdjieff held similar views… views probably also
derived from Zoroastrian ideas. Not being of any particular faith the concept of evil was foreign to him as was
the collective mentality… he espoused the principle of working on oneself for the purpose of attaining personal
power… the conjuring and building of invisible power and the idea that life should be built according to desire

Posts: 684
Gender:for purpose meaning the acquisition of material wealth and personal power… many considered this evil and still
do. But he was prepared to share his understanding with others.. a guru building his power base not unlike
modern gurus such as Anthony Robbins, Deepak Chopra to mention a few … he was powerful in the circles hetraveled in his day and a curiosity to the effected western aristocracy [if we can call them that] who sought
spiritual enlightenment. He understood that there is no enlightenment until you explore the depths anddarkness of ones own soul and then of course only then can we move forward… that’s what the world is going
through right now… in modern philosophic terms "deconstruction"… great learning opportunity...
Regarding spirals… Gurdjieff was a master of the enneagram he understood the concept well as did Blavatsky
with the Dhyan Cohen.. the six that became seven… power to those that understand the mystic principles ofgeometry.
Empowering the collective is impossible, ninety per cent of people are lazy and end up in a body corporate
hoping someone else will do the work… no greater good there… even a body corporate needs a powerfulchairman… and those that work as the later of course do so not without a big fat slice out of the middle forthemselves thus empowering themselves even more. Long live Corporate America… because without it you’ll all
slide into the third world… hmmm
Power [of self] bow to no one... = Highly evolved as spiral says… “As evolution progresses faster and faster,
those who cannot keep up will be pushed out, fall by the wayside, and be left behind, destroyed. “Back to top
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Van Derek

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #191 - on: 05.07.2009 at 07:47 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 05.07.2009 at 06:41 [UT+1]:
spiral what do you think about cayce's ideas that our charts reflect our between lifetimes sojourns and its synthesis
not exactly our previous life though i would suspect our thoughts determined in many ways by our current life.......and that our thoughts
just before we die and at the moment of death determine our next life ? these ideas have roots in the buddhist traditions andmost of the religion offer confession for the similar purposes i suspect...

Posts: 684
Gender:

Hi SW... interesting question... but framed problematically, I'm not sure if this response addresses yourquestions...
I see a chart [rather than charts] represents the soul of the universe. It's only when we place ourselves in thechart that the problems arise about stepping off. Cyce's ideas were religious... belief in astrology [as theultimate mystery in the universe] makes you an explorer, an adventurer. Cayce's God... Buddhism or
Catholicism a follower. The difference... all religion teachings profess to know the answer. Astrology is just an
ongoing mystery... if you need direction... no fish on Fridays is probably OK.

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Kathleen Bentley
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #192 - on: 05.07.2009 at 08:36 [UT+1] »A different type of ? would have given a different type of answer. It Is All Good.
I use intuition most of the time to do interpretations. It almost always works.

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Kathleen Bentley

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #193 - on: 05.07.2009 at 08:38 [UT+1] »You are creating allot of answers for a foolish question.
Libra in hiding

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Van Derek
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #194 - on: 05.07.2009 at 09:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Kathleen Bentley on 05.07.2009 at 08:36 [UT+1]:
A different type of ? would have given a different type of answer. It Is All Good.
I use intuition most of the time to do interpretations. It almost always works.

we may not all be as intuitive KB... Not sure who or what u are addressing here in your responses
Libra in hiding???
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Kathleen Bentley

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #195 - on: 05.07.2009 at 11:09 [UT+1] »I belive in evolution. This does not shelter me from esthetics that I am not aware of in this moment. Women
vs. Men or how can I still live? older woman caught in a trap. Not afraid of the person I was.

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Just_meEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #196 - on: 05.07.2009 at 12:54 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 05.07.2009 at 05:40 [UT+1]:
Hi Dr Koo,
I am not a fan of Gurdjieff, however he has own opinion on "highly evolved".
On the topic of collective concern and astrology, I hope the Age of Aquarius brings about a change of attitude and there will be less hypeabout state borders, flags, nationalism in general and quarrels about differences. Either that, or the continental shelves that Just_mementioned, will shift to take care of it.

Thanks for the spaghetti harvest.

.

It is almost 5AM in Los Angeles and why did I awake? Guns and Firecrackers. Oy ve. I hope they will stop soon.

It will be unfortunate if those shelves happen to be the answer.
But, they are as inevitable as wildfires and eclipses.
Agreed. Bullying and hype are insidious. People having differences of opinions? Creates unity in diversity at it'sheight. Or maybe that is my I speaking.
realworld Sorry about your daughter. Quite scary.
It is illegal to assault people. Does that stop people? My mind wanders back to the Rodney King riots. All those
fists and people stealing pampers. So sad.
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Spiral 28

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #197 - on: 05.07.2009 at 14:50 [UT+1] »Solarwind, I like any interconnection concept between one life and another. Our last thought before death
nowdays seems too often to be an obscenity uttered by anyone in an accident or self-aware situation. I would
rather prefer that our concept of our own life leading up to our death would be the interconnector, in terms of
the emotional aspects of our next chart.
But generations of people within one family over hundreds of years seem to be working out the same problems
or challenges over and over, and the birthcharts of generations will have some of the same degrees. Whether
Posts: 3639
Gender:it is a quick destructive temper, or a tendency to fade and hide because of fear and timidity, or a smug
obnoxious holier-than-thou personality, if negative, or a wide open acceptance of everyone, a compassionate
service to society, a sweetness of character, a piercing intelligence and curiosity, these things are passed fromone generation to the next in the spiral of DNA.
The DNA spiral is the real interconnector and what determines our charts, but the last life may have worked
out these things to a higher evolved degree, and so we can pass on from them.
I'm not sure about your reference to Zorastrian, Dr.Koo, but I'll do some reading today.

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?

Jen J.
Member« Reply #198 - on: 05.07.2009 at 17:09 [UT+1] »Quote from Spiral 28 on 05.07.2009 at 14:50 [UT+1]:
Solarwind, I like any interconnection concept between one life and another. Our last thought before death nowdays seems too often to be
an obscenity uttered by anyone in an accident or self-aware situation. I would rather prefer that our concept of our own life leading up to
our death would be the interconnector, in terms of the emotional aspects of our next chart.
But generations of people within one family over hundreds of years seem to be working out the same problems or challenges over andover, and the birthcharts of generations will have some of the same degrees. Whether it is a quick destructive temper, or a tendency to

Posts: 4286

fade and hide because of fear and timidity, or a smug obnoxious holier-than-thou personality, if negative, or a wide open acceptance ofeveryone, a compassionate service to society, a sweetness of character, a piercing intelligence and curiosity, these things are passed fromone generation to the next in the spiral of DNA.
The DNA spiral is the real interconnector and what determines our charts, but the last life may have worked out these things to a higher
evolved degree, and so we can pass on from them.
I'm not sure about your reference to Zorastrian, Dr.Koo, but I'll do some reading today.

...

It's all in our genes... hence GENESIS

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realworld

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #199 - on: 05.07.2009 at 17:24 [UT+1] »Thanks for your kind thoughts Just_me.
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 05.07.2009 at 03:44 [UT+1]:
The problem you described was evil bastards. Take away the guns, they are still evil bastards. Will evil bastards do evil things? Count on
it. I swear guns did not make them evil bastards. Your argument, at that of many others, appears to be that if guns were gone, there
would be no evil bastards.

I don't know. "spiritual" gurus tell us differently, for example, Kahlil Gibran, in The Prophet, says,"And as a single leaf turns not yellow with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, So the wrong-doer cannot dowrong without the hidden will of you all. "(which mirrors what dog8818 was saying about the "Man In The Mirror" earlier). On the other hand, I'm
beginning to agree with Spiril28 who complained about "too much Pisces". It's true - we keep on throwing
compassion and "understanding" at the gun violence problem but it doesn't seem to do any good.
The bottom line is that if guns had not been available, there would have been no Columbine massacre, no
Virginia Tech massacre, and the 10,000 people who are murdered every year in America would still be alive.
There is overwhelming evidence that if guns are available for citizens, people use them.
If we are not going to eliminate guns, we will hopefully do the next best thing, which would be to address the
problem with Aquarian technology. Every new gun and every bullet sold could be labeled electronically, so that
if people do use their guns, for whatever purpose, their actions can be traced back to them. I would also like to
see warning labels on guns - how come we have them on cigarettes, but not lethal weapons? And why don't all
the people who picket abortion clinics shouting "right to life" go and picket gun shows instead.
As for evolution, I think that we're all a bit reluctant to talk about individuals being more evolved than anyone
else, as it reeks of pomposity and judgment, but I do think it's fine to talk about a country evolving. In fact, I
think the Freemason founders of America had evolution in mind in 1776 when they chose so many Scorpio
symbols for the seal of the United States (no matter what Ascendant is on the U.S. chart). They realized that
the U.S. was an "experiment" and chose the eagle, 13 olive branches, all sorts of other esoteric symbols tosymbolize the process of transformation necessary for anything to evolve.
Pic of fireworks last night:
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Marshal Crown
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #200 - on: 05.07.2009 at 17:46 [UT+1] »You mentioned Freemasonry, I think Goethe was highly evolved.

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Mr__Evolved.jpg (attachment deleted)
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Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #201 - on: 05.07.2009 at 19:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Marshal Crown on 05.07.2009 at 17:46 [UT+1]:
You mentioned Freemasonry, I think Goethe was highly evolved.

Yes, Faust does dramatize the good and evil concept, and the idea of the devil very well. I don't know about
Freemasonry though - it might have been evolved back in the 1700s, but (as discussed on other threads), a
secret society with funny hand shakes and blood - curdling oaths does seem a bit cultish these days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bRnsbdCF5s
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #202 - on: 05.07.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1] »Quote from Marshal Crown on 05.07.2009 at 17:46 [UT+1]:
You mentioned Freemasonry, I think Goethe was highly evolved.

Goethe, interesting choice; here is his chart.

GAscoO -- this is one of the most difficult and unpleasant squares, but he had it on the ascendant. Saturn on
Ascendant is difficult enough. These people are touchy and given to violent swings of mood. They are tense
and given to very difficult situations through which they often endure.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe%2C_Johann_Wolfgang_von
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #203 - on: 05.07.2009 at 20:31 [UT+1] »If Geothe is an 'evolved soul', then Dog was on to something with her comments about Saturn.

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Ed Falis
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #204 - on: 06.07.2009 at 00:08 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 05.07.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from Marshal Crown on 05.07.2009 at 17:46 [UT+1]:
You mentioned Freemasonry, I think Goethe was highly evolved.

Goethe, interesting choice; here is his chart.

GAscoO -- this is one of the most difficult and unpleasant squares, but he had it on the ascendant. Saturn on Ascendant is difficult
enough. These people are touchy and given to violent swings of mood. They are tense and given to very difficult situations through which
they often endure.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe%2C_Johann_Wolfgang_von

Hmn. Me too. Except that I got over the violent mood swings when I was 19 and started meditating.

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astro_2gw_08_ed.83410.27908.gif (attachment deleted)
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #205 - on: 06.07.2009 at 00:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 06.07.2009 at 00:08 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 05.07.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from Marshal Crown on 05.07.2009 at 17:46 [UT+1]:
You mentioned Freemasonry, I think Goethe was highly evolved.

Goethe, interesting choice; here is his chart.

GAscoO -- this is one of the most difficult and unpleasant squares, but he had it on the ascendant. Saturn on Ascendantis difficult enough. These people are touchy and given to violent swings of mood. They are tense and given to very difficult
situations through which they often endure.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe%2C_Johann_Wolfgang_von

Hmn. Me too. Except that I got over the violent mood swings when I was 19 and started meditating.

It is also a sign of the femme fatale. You were not doubt beating them off with a stick. Who knows French?
What is the male equivalent of femme fatale?

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Van Derek
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #206 - on: 06.07.2009 at 00:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 05.07.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from Marshal Crown on 05.07.2009 at 17:46 [UT+1]:
You mentioned Freemasonry, I think Goethe was highly evolved.

Goethe, interesting choice; here is his chart.
Asc-- this is one of the most difficult and unpleasant squares, but he had it on the ascendant. Saturn on Ascendant is difficultGoOenough. These people are touchy and given to violent swings of mood. They are tense and given to very difficult

Posts: 684
Gender:situations through which they often endure.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe%2C_Johann_Wolfgang_von

Brilliant...A freemason with violent mood swings who is highly evolved…
sounds like astro speak to me.
Why would you focus on this??? I think the chart says a hell of a lot more than this about his genious. "Highly
evolve"... I'm still waiting for someone to explain how we become highly evolved in a moment of celestial
time... you can sign me up if you find the answer. I think we've all become highly involved...
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #207 - on: 06.07.2009 at 00:44 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 06.07.2009 at 00:08 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 05.07.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from Marshal Crown on 05.07.2009 at 17:46 [UT+1]:
You mentioned Freemasonry, I think Goethe was highly evolved.

Goethe, interesting choice; here is his chart.

GAscoO -- this is one of the most difficult and unpleasant squares, but he had it on the ascendant. Saturn on Ascendantis difficult enough. These people are touchy and given to violent swings of mood. They are tense and given to very difficult
situations through which they often endure.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe%2C_Johann_Wolfgang_von

Hmn. Me too. Except that I got over the violent mood swings when I was 19 and started meditating.

With that Grand Trine, you can be a millionaire, a healer, or both. Oops. Kite with Mars, even more so. The
Midas touch.
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #208 - on: 06.07.2009 at 00:45 [UT+1] »Quote from DrKoo on 06.07.2009 at 00:40 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 05.07.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from Marshal Crown on 05.07.2009 at 17:46 [UT+1]:
You mentioned Freemasonry, I think Goethe was highly evolved.

Goethe, interesting choice; here is his chart.

GAscoO -- this is one of the most difficult and unpleasant squares, but he had it on the ascendant. Saturn on Ascendantis difficult enough. These people are touchy and given to violent swings of mood. They are tense
and given to very difficult situations through which they often endure.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe%2C_Johann_Wolfgang_von

Brilliant...A freemason with violent mood swings who is highly evolved…

sounds like astro speak to me. Why would you focus on

this??? I think the chart says a hell of a lot more than this about his genious. "Highly evolve"... I'm still waiting for someone to explain
how we become highly evolved in a moment of celestial time... you can sign me up if you find the answer. I think we've all become highly
involved...

You are right, of course.
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Rainbow Seeker

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #209 - on: 06.07.2009 at 01:47 [UT+1] »If we are not going to eliminate guns, we will hopefully do the next best thing, which would be to address the
problem with Aquarian technology. Every new gun and every bullet sold could be labeled electronically, sothat if people do use their guns, for whatever purpose, their actions can be traced back to them. I would also
like to see warning labels on guns - how come we have them on cigarettes, but not lethal weapons? And why
don't all the people who picket abortion clinics shouting "right to life" go and picket gun shows instead.

Maybe technology will catch up with us. like in deveolping new types of weapons, that the public can use thatare non lethal...like "tasers"
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Shokk
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #210 - on: 06.07.2009 at 04:35 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 06.07.2009 at 01:47 [UT+1]:
If we are not going to eliminate guns, we will hopefully do the next best thing, which would be toaddress the problem with Aquarian technology. Every new gun and every bullet sold could be
Posts: 226labeled electronically, so that if people do use their guns, for whatever purpose, their actions canbe traced back to them. I would also like to see warning labels on guns - how come we havethem on cigarettes, but not lethal weapons? And why don't all the people who picket abortion
clinics shouting "right to life" go and picket gun shows instead.
Maybe technology will catch up with us. like in deveolping new types of weapons, that the public can use that are non lethal...like "tasers"

Please, warning labels on guns would be absolutely comical. It's sort of supposed to go unsaid that "This thingcan pretty much kill people". Reminds me of how I see a sign with an arrow curving to the left with a red circle
and cross through said arrow, obviously meaning "No left turn" but then I see "NO LEFT TURN" written in nice,big capital letters for us dumb folk.
But anyway, no offense meant with that part, I just thought it a wee bit ridiculous
I don't think the problem really is guns, anyway, they're just a means to an end, to paraphrase what Stephen
said earlier "evil bastards will do evil things".
It's not guns that are causing killing and bloodshed (okay..they technically do, but..) it's the people who usethem, ban guns, go ahead, But evil bastards will find a way to what they want, if they don't have guns they'll
come up with something to do whatever they're trying to do. Again, weapons are but a means to an end, theproblem is the "end" that one wants and why one would want this to be their goal, and what would bring themto take such drastic measures to achieve it.
I'd say the problem is humans, not guns.
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Ed Falis

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #211 - on: 06.07.2009 at 18:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 06.07.2009 at 00:32 [UT+1]:...
It is also a sign of the femme fatale. You were not doubt beating them off with a stick. Who knows French? What is the male equivalentof femme fatale?

Actually, I wasn't. I think I may have been a bit too overwhelming in those days.
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #212 - on: 06.07.2009 at 18:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 06.07.2009 at 18:24 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 06.07.2009 at 00:32 [UT+1]:...
It is also a sign of the femme fatale. You were not doubt beating them off with a stick. Who knows French? What is themale equivalent of femme fatale?

Actually, I wasn't. I think I may have been a bit too overwhelming in those days.

I guess BD, tender and devoted, won out.
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Ed Falis

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #213 - on: 06.07.2009 at 18:41 [UT+1] »It's an interesting mix to experience, especially in cardinal signs and angular. A broad range of experiences.

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #214 - on: 06.07.2009 at 18:42 [UT+1] »so now we know that ed is the homme fatal...with that GoO the mood swings must be related to your home
/ hobby/ kids life? are your kids have more than usual rebel inclinations?

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Kathleen Bentley

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #215 - on: 06.07.2009 at 18:46 [UT+1] »Fem Fatel

Masculine mask

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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #216 - on: 06.07.2009 at 18:48 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 06.07.2009 at 18:42 [UT+1]:
so now we know that ed is the homme fatal...with that

GoO the mood swings must be related to your home / hobby/ kids life? are yourkids have more than usual rebel inclinations?

Classically OG is the scientist, technologist, and teacher. Maybe a genious?
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Ed Falis

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #217 - on: 06.07.2009 at 18:50 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 06.07.2009 at 18:42 [UT+1]:
so now we know that ed is the homme fatal...with thatkids have more than usual rebel inclinations?

GoO the mood swings must be related to your home / hobby/ kids life? are yourI don't have a lot of mood swings these years. In my youth they were about my self-perception and how I
should fit into the world (not surprizing with a first house stellium). Later, they were more career oriented,
being a bit of a maverick and wanting to have sufficient influence to "improve" things.
My kids are both strong individuals who follow their own paths.
And yeah, my career has been as a technologist, developing and marketing software and related products, andtrying to make them meaningful to the larger society.
- Ed
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Confutatis
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #218 - on: 06.07.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1] »I'm not sure am I "highly evolved", but I am absolutely sure that I'm one of the most egoistic person in theworld!
And I'm not sure is it good or bad thing. Maybe both.

GOI in 5th house and AJ in 4th house. And F in 10th house. Ac e And whatsoever.

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debbieM

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #219 - on: 06.07.2009 at 20:15 [UT+1] »Quote from Confutatis on 06.07.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure am I "highly evolved", but I am absolutely sure that I'm one of the most egoistic person in the world!
And I'm not sure is it good or bad thing. Maybe both.

GOI in 5th house and AJ in 4th house. And F in 10th house. Ac e And whatsoever.

Any truly strong connections with the earth and it's values, becomes a retardant, in spiritual growth, IMO.
Connections of course can also include the Ego, if it's that strong. Can then become a retarding factor.
Everyone needs a healthy ego or "sense" of themselves, but one that become overwhelming, then retards thesoul
if one doesn't realize they ultimately shed this part in favor of the higher things. In otherwords, the ego diesout and is a temporary shell as the body is. It does not go on higher. It dies at the astral stage of being if not
here.
But believe, me, "it's temporary" at best.
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Narcissus.html

IMO.

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Confutatis
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #220 - on: 06.07.2009 at 20:33 [UT+1] »Quote from debbieM on 06.07.2009 at 20:15 [UT+1]:
Quote from Confutatis on 06.07.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure am I "highly evolved", but I am absolutely sure that I'm one of the most egoistic person in the world!
And I'm not sure is it good or bad thing. Maybe both.

GOI in 5th house and AJ in 4th house. And F in 10th house. Ac e And whatsoever.

Any truly strong connections with the earth and it's values, becomes a retardant, in spiritual growth, IMO.
Connections of course can also include the Ego, if it's that strong. Can then become a retarding factor.
Everyone needs a healthy ego or "sense" of themselves, but one that become overwhelming, then retards the soul
if one doesn't realize they ultimately shed this part in favor of the higher things. In otherwords, the ego dies out and is a temporary shellas the body is.
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Narcissus.html

IMO.

So you mean like watching Simpsons on tv? But come on! Simpsons are great! My soul is in the highest
position when I am watching Simpsons or the Best of Ron Jeremy compilations on Tv.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #221 - on: 06.07.2009 at 21:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Confutatis on 06.07.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure am I "highly evolved", but I am absolutely sure that I'm one of the most egoistic person in the world!
And I'm not sure is it good or bad thing. Maybe both.

GOI in 5th house and AJ in 4th house. And F in 10th house. Ac e And whatsoever.

Fascinating ideas.
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #222 - on: 06.07.2009 at 21:09 [UT+1] »Quote from Confutatis on 06.07.2009 at 20:33 [UT+1]:
Quote from debbieM on 06.07.2009 at 20:15 [UT+1]:
Quote from Confutatis on 06.07.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure am I "highly evolved", but I am absolutely sure that I'm one of the most egoistic person in theworld!
And I'm not sure is it good or bad thing. Maybe both.

GOI in 5th house and AJ in 4th house. And F in 10th house. Ac e And whatsoever.

Any truly strong connections with the earth and it's values, becomes a retardant, in spiritual growth, IMO.
Connections of course can also include the Ego, if it's that strong. Can then become a retarding factor.
Everyone needs a healthy ego or "sense" of themselves, but one that become overwhelming, then retards the soul
if one doesn't realize they ultimately shed this part in favor of the higher things. In otherwords, the ego dies out and is atemporary shell as the body is.
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Narcissus.html

IMO.

So you mean like watching Simpsons on tv? But come on! Simpsons are great! My soul is in the highest position when I am watching
Simpsons or the Best of Ron Jeremy compilations on Tv.

I know what you mean. Sooner or later, they get around to every topic. On a number of occasions discarnatesouls have returned from heaven and have created various kinds of interesting trouble for the living. It is not
simply irreverant, but I'm not sure there is a method to the madness either. None of it is life changing. It canbe the most extreme circumstances or events, but next week, we are back to normal.
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realworld

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #223 - on: 06.07.2009 at 21:22 [UT+1] »Quote from DrKoo on 06.07.2009 at 00:40 [UT+1]:
Brilliant...A freemason with violent mood swings who is highly evolved…

Lest we forget how pompous we "spiritual folks" can sometimes be, here is a picture from Vera Stanley Alder's1937 book, The Initiation Of The World.
I think Homer Simpson would be a Lemurian.
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verastanleyaldertypes.jpg (attachment deleted)
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realworld
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #224 - on: 06.07.2009 at 21:29 [UT+1] »Quote from Shokk on 06.07.2009 at 04:35 [UT+1]:

I'd say the problem is humans, not guns.

I agree, but it seems that some humans are more of a problem than others:

In 2004 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns were used in the murder of :5 people in New Zealand
37 people in Sweden
56 people in Australia
184 people in Canada
19 people in Japan73 people in the UKand11,344 people in the United States
from: http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #225 - on: 06.07.2009 at 21:38 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 06.07.2009 at 21:22 [UT+1]:
Quote from DrKoo on 06.07.2009 at 00:40 [UT+1]:
Brilliant...A freemason with violent mood swings who is highly evolved…

Lest we forget how pompous we "spiritual folks" can sometimes be, here is a picture from Vera Stanley Alder's 1937 book, The Initiation
Of The World.
I think Homer Simpson would be a Lemurian.

It is chilling how the Nazis took what would eventually become New Age concepts and used them to justify theirworst motives and methods. I think it had more to do with manipulation than pseudoscience. That is why
Hitler siezed upon antisemitism. He was determined to use worst of humanity against humanity, though I also
think he believed much of the foolishness he taught. But if he had not believed, he would have continued forthe opportunity to influence.
By invoking widespread prejudices, he could offer the notion of a master race -- which is just a variation on the"evolved person" idea we are talking about.
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Marshal Crown
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #226 - on: 06.07.2009 at 22:21 [UT+1] »At least Goethe was more evolved than Nietzsche.

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debbieM

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #227 - on: 06.07.2009 at 22:30 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 06.07.2009 at 21:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from Shokk on 06.07.2009 at 04:35 [UT+1]:

I'd say the problem is humans, not guns.

I agree, but it seems that some humans are more of a problem than others:

In 2004 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns were used in the murder of :5 people in New Zealand
37 people in Sweden
56 people in Australia
184 people in Canada
19 people in Japan73 people in the UKand11,344 people in the United States
from: http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

It may be difficult to do, (perhaps not)?
but is there anyway to get the statistics in these same countries fordeath via knives, and other means of killing people?
Just to stay on the fair side of balance?
In South Carolina this week, there is a serial killer on the loose.
Everyone is running to the stores for handguns .............as this man kills indiscriminately anyone, whether they
are young or old, by breaking into their homes or businesses.
A cop was in a shootout today in North Carolina (over the border) of this state.....and they aren't yet sure if it
was with the Serial Killer or just a fluke.
I'd like to see the statistics of the other murders and how they were perpetrated. Either by stick , knife orwhatever in the same countries as listed if that is possible.
http://www.wwaytv3.com/node/16875
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090704/ap_on_re_us/us_sc_killing_spree

The spree had alarmed residents canceling Independence Day holiday plans and arming themselves. The sheriff
has warned door-to-door salesmen to stop knocking and anyone who breaks down on the county's rural roads
to wait instead of walking to a house for help because he worries "people are going to start shooting at
shadows."

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DahliaEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #228 - on: 06.07.2009 at 23:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Confutatis on 06.07.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure am I "highly evolved", but I am absolutely sure that I'm one of the most egoistic person in the world!
And I'm not sure is it good or bad thing. Maybe both.

GOI in 5th house and AJ in 4th house. And F in 10th house. Ac e And whatsoever.

You seem to have a very similar chart to mine! Except that I have my Moon in the 5th too.
Im also a Leo ASC with Jupiter in the 10th. Do you have your Venus in the 1st or second?
If some planet is behind someone being evolved, I would look at Saturn.
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #229 - on: 06.07.2009 at 23:49 [UT+1] »My applause-o-meter for "highly evolved" is registering pretty high just now for someone who calls himself
Kirtanman at http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=5878&#53093 . [Ifthis doesn't come up, an advanced google search should locate it.] I was trying to find a favourite saying that I
mistakenly thought was Buddhist. Turns out it's Hindu, and attributed to a figure named Hanuman from theRamayana. I've highlighted it. Here is Kirtanman's gloss on it. [And by the way, I am a deist/sceptic, not a
Christian or Hindu.]
Hanuman and Christ are the "breath of God" .... the expression of clarified mind -- pure, clear awareness, free

Posts: 14740
Gender:of limited ego-thoughts ... and shining-reflecting the pure light of whole-iness, as the outpouring of divine
loving, in and as reality.
Jesus Christ is depicted as loving - all the way.
Hanuman is depicted as loving - all the way.
Why?
Because loving, all the way .... lights the way home ... until suddenly one day ... instead of following the pathmade clear by loving ... we're lighting the path with-as loving .... and saying, with Hanuman:"When I don't know who I am, I serve you; when I know who I am, I am you."

The trick is this:You can't love-serve with your thinking mind.
You can't love-serve with your emotions.
You can't even love-serve with your heart.
You love-serve with your life - your actual living now - unbound from the thought-shackles of the thought-me's
thinking dreams.
The craziest thing about all these mystical, magical fantastical symbols and stories ... is that they point the way
home to this that is REAL ... in ways that are not eroded by the ego's distortions over time.
It's so simple, really.
When in doubt, Love.
When not in doubt, Love.
Love enough to leggo the ego ....
... and before you know it .... indeed, before you *can* know it ...
You're all the way Here, all the way Home, all the way Loving, all the way AUM.
All it costs is everything you think you are .... and it's not hard ...... you were literally born for this.
And it all gets a lot easier when you realize: you were born for this .... and ONLY THIS.
On this thread my applause for "most likely to be enlightened" go to rookish and Krista!
Off thread, I might just entertain Homer Simpson.
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chatcat
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #230 - on: 07.07.2009 at 01:37 [UT+1] »I thnk there are some that are highly evolved but they must be here on this low evolution planet to help others
and this is one indication of who may be. Those who are kind and helpful, not terribly materialistic, give toothers and give guidance can be seen that way. But it is hard to measure in my opinion.

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solarwind

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #231 - on: 07.07.2009 at 02:12 [UT+1] »I wonder what is the prevalence of the higher evolved souls among world leaders not just politicians ceos
business people creative... it seems to me scientists and artists should be the most evolved....

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #232 - on: 07.07.2009 at 04:07 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 06.07.2009 at 21:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from Shokk on 06.07.2009 at 04:35 [UT+1]:

I'd say the problem is humans, not guns.

I agree, but it seems that some humans are more of a problem than others:

In 2004 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns were used in the murder of :5 people in New Zealand
37 people in Sweden
56 people in Australia
184 people in Canada
19 people in Japan73 people in the UKand11,344 people in the United States
from: http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

Thank you for this realworld, I don't think any more needs to be said.
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Pisces63

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #233 - on: 07.07.2009 at 04:10 [UT+1] »dusting off my visa

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Confutatis
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #234 - on: 07.07.2009 at 07:26 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 06.07.2009 at 21:06 [UT+1]:
Quote from Confutatis on 06.07.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure am I "highly evolved", but I am absolutely sure that I'm one of the most egoistic person in the world!
And I'm not sure is it good or bad thing. Maybe both.

GOI in 5th house and AJ in 4th house. And F in 10th house. Ac e And whatsoever.

Fascinating ideas.

Yes, I know. I am the greatest!
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Confutatis

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #235 - on: 07.07.2009 at 07:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Dahlia on 06.07.2009 at 23:05 [UT+1]:
Quote from Confutatis on 06.07.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
I'm not sure am I "highly evolved", but I am absolutely sure that I'm one of the most egoistic person in the world!
And I'm not sure is it good or bad thing. Maybe both.

GOI in 5th house and AJ in 4th house. And F in 10th house. Ac e And whatsoever.
You seem to have a very similar chart to mine! Except that I have my Moon in the 5th too.
Im also a Leo ASC with Jupiter in the 10th. Do you have your Venus in the 1st or second?
If some planet is behind someone being evolved, I would look at Saturn.

I have Venus/Mercury in the 3rd house. B in the 11th house. And Mars in the 9th house making opposition to
Venus.
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Lindac7
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #236 - on: 07.07.2009 at 11:54 [UT+1] »My idea of being highly evolved includes these quotes:
From Eyesis:"I am fortunate to have known people who had great and true character. A highly evolved person would besomeone who genuinely rises above the din and does cool things not for glory, but because it is the right thing
to do. They would not do it to be able to look better than others. Ego has nothing to do with being evolved.
They would not resort to using foul language because they would know that it would make them worse thanthe one cursing. The person would find the high road instead of doing the thing that is easiest. They do exist,
but you never hear of them because they are the unsung heroes and heroines in society. They seek no glory.
They do it out of love and respect for their fellow person. I don't have to like you, but I can still love you.
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It is not what we do that makes us better than another, it is how we treat our fellow person, and that does notmake us better, it just makes us more humane."
From Dog8818:"If there is a "highly evolved" persona, I see it as a person who has integrated their issues and no longer
whines or overcompensates or avoids - has basically accepted what they need to accept with grace. They nolonger need to compete in order to "win", if they do compete it is to master something within themselves, winor lose has no meaning. They take nothing personally; events in this world flow through them without
emotional reaction (and here's where it's tricky, because this is also the mark of a depressive personality). They
maintain a belief in the system of the Universe and project that optimism outward - they use their in a waythat ultimately benefits mankind, even if it's just the man across the street and no one else ever benefits fromtheir largesse. Criticism is a useless vocation, and guilt and jealousy have become useless emotions, therefore
they have mastered the art of detachment ( ). If they mis-step, there is remorse, but then forgiveness, as wellas granting others the same consideration. It becomes ultimately important to them to express love andacceptance at every opportunity, rather than judgment and argument. They practice the art of spiritual aikido,
which is a function."
From LionInRain:"All this one can observe in oneself. You don't have to go to any philosopher, to any teacher, or belong to anygroup. Your various groups are limiting, confusing, contradicting each other, they create animosity though theytalk of brotherhood. If one knows that truth cannot be found through any person, through any book, throughany religion, that reality comes into being only when the mind is utterly still, that stillness can come only with
self-knowledge, and that self-knowledge cannot be given to one by another but has to be discovered for oneself
from moment to moment - then, surely, there comes a tranquility of mind which is not death, a peace which isreally creative, and it is only then that the eternal can come into being. "The only other thing I could possibly add to these is the requirement that humility must be the first step, andin fact, the cornerstone of the foundation to all inner growth. Without true humility, true evolution has notoccurred. Frankly, I'm quite surprised that this word and concept have not been mentioned in this thread atall.
I, too, have known (and do know) people who have great and true character. Every single one of them also
had/has great humility.
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Lindac7

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #237 - on: 07.07.2009 at 11:57 [UT+1] »Rookish,It was Linda Goodman who explained the evolution of the soul through the natural order of the signs. She
spelled it out in ‘Love Signs’.

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Lindac7
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #238 - on: 07.07.2009 at 12:02 [UT+1] »Lynnifer, you said:"I'm starting to think 'spiritual evolvement' as a personal goal is a bit suspect.
We are all sitting alone at our computers, many of us living miles away from our extended families. One smallfamily in our big (relatively) comfortable homes, doors shut, fenced off from our neighbours. Putting so many
expectations onto a relationship with one 'significant other'.
In other cultures, not so affluent as our own, extended families live and work together in tiny dwellings, sharing
their space with many people every minute of their day. I lived in a small village in Asia for a while, and I think I
Posts: 2029
Gender:met more 'spiritually evolved' people in that one village than I have in my whole life. Everyone is responsible
for everyone else in this kind of environment, there is no privacy, no choice of spiritual paths. They generally
co-operate with and love those next to them, because it doesn't occur to them not to. There is no room forego's. But there is tolerance.......tolerance in order to survive. Just the constant proximity of others forces akind of speeded up spiritual evolution. And when survival is pressing, we need each other......alone we perish.
I found it impossible to stay, because I am culturally imprinted to be 'self' orientated rather than 'other'orientated. I was ashamed to realise this. But I will always remember how the old people were constantly
smiling, and how much the young people loved them. How the babies hardly ever cried, and children were free
to roam.
Perhaps we should be looking at indicators in the chart for being born into a 'spiritual kindergarten' incarnation,otherwise known as western life.
We are like babies in comparison. Faffing around with our clever ruminating. Twiddling with our belly-buttons,
as my Mum would say."

I don’t think spiritual evolvement as an individual goal is suspect at all, and since you and I have a few things incommon between our charts (namely the need to ‘go within’), it simply means that our task for this life in our
spiritual evolvement is to focus more on ourselves for whatever reason. It doesn’t mean we are to shutourselves out from the rest of the world; we still have the responsibility to integrate ourselves into whateversociety we are in. That is simply not our primary task.
I guarantee you without equivocation that my experience of going within, learning about myself and working
on improving my weaknesses, etc. has made me a better person to the extent I’ve worked on it, and whateverprogress I’ve made in that regard has made it easier for me to integrate with others around me. I definitely
and absolutely see and feel a significant difference, not only inside myself, but also in the quality of myrelationships with others.
Personally, I think all of us should spend some time doing this work – and keep in mind, just because thepeople around you seem to get along quite well doesn’t mean that they are not suffering in silence withinthemselves for whatever weaknesses they see inside. They are simply acting out a role in most cases, notnecessarily to be taken at face value. Things are rarely exactly as they appear.

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lynnifer

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #239 - on: 07.07.2009 at 12:07 [UT+1] »Quote:The only other thing I could possibly add to these is the requirement that humility must be the first step, and in fact, the cornerstone of
the foundation to all inner growth. Without true humility, true evolution has not occurred. Frankly, I'm quite surprised that this word andconcept have not been mentioned in this thread at all.
I, too, have known (and do know) people who have great and true character. Every single one of them also had/has great humility.

I second that Linda. I don't think someone who is highly evolved would pay much attention to a thread likethis.
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Lindac7
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #240 - on: 07.07.2009 at 12:10 [UT+1] »Cygnet, you said:“I think you must not judge yourself so harshly.”I think we all need to realize that if we believe in a final judgment day at the end of our lives, if there is a God
who will assign us a reward according to our righteousness, one of the questions he/she will ask us is where do
WE believe we belong? The point being that how we judge ourselves will count for far more in our spiritual
growth than any other measurement of ourselves as human beings. If God is truly the God I have come tounderstand, then he/she is equally just AND merciful. Most of us are pretty good at dispensing justice, butlacking somewhat in the mercy we have to give, and particularly to ourselves.
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Lindac7

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #241 - on: 07.07.2009 at 12:26 [UT+1] »Myrios, you said:“Then again, I believe humans have interfered with Nature, by "saving" Life that otherwise Nature would haveselectively destroyed had it not been for our human interference ... so in that sense, could it be stated that wemay really be "devolving" ourselves and Life?”
Excellent point. I agree. There is a fine line in this matter, of course, but unfortunately those who are playing
with these issues won't learn their lesson until they've gone too far.

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Lindac7
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #242 - on: 07.07.2009 at 12:37 [UT+1] »RealWorld, you said:“The bottom line is that if guns had not been available, there would have been no Columbine massacre, no
Virginia Tech massacre, and the 10,000 people who are murdered every year in America would still be alive.
There is overwhelming evidence that if guns are available for citizens, people use them. “The problem with that statement is, if people want to commit massacre, or murder, or robbery or anythingelse, and guns are no longer made available, those people will simply find another weapon to use – a knife, aclub, a hand grenade, an arrow, a bomb, fire, etc. That’s the whole point about gun control – it simply doesn’twork. If guns are taken away from the general citizenry, the criminals will still find ways to commit horrific
Posts: 2029
Gender:crimes against them with different weapons (and the citizenry will be incapable of defending themselves against
the criminals AND the government, who wields more weapons than any entity in the U.S., both in number andin power).
This further erodes the rights of citizens and gives more power to the government, thereby putting thecitizenry even further at their mercy. We are already completely at the mercy of our government financially.
Taking away our weapons is simply the next step, by a government that is supposed to be representing ourdesires. This is NOT the picture the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the constitution – in fact,
they intended the exact opposite.
By labeling every bullet and gun electronically, you have just created a Big Brother society. We already haveenough of Big Brother watching us now. How much more control do we want to give to our government, andthereby take away our individual rights? The constitution is slowly but surely being chipped away, but not soslowly that I can’t see it happening in my lifetime on an almost daily basis. This deeply concerns me.
I am non-violent and always for peace. I don’t like guns, violence, or the idea that we have the freedom toessentially use all sorts of weapons any time we want – but I still think ultimately the freedom of choice wecurrently have in this matter is better than having our hands tied so that all we then become is sitting ducks
with no way to defend ourselves. I don't own a gun or any kind of weapon, and I hope I never need one, but if
a situation arises where I'll need one, I won't hesitate to defend myself from harm or death.
Why do you think the extremist groups who'd like to go on killing sprees haven't done so yet and gotten awaywith it? Because the general citizenry owns their own weapons. Take that away, and chaos and mayhem willensue.
Regarding that list of statistics on hand guns, I would also like to see a true depiction of statistics on murders
in proportion to populations, as well as all other murders committed by other methods before being quick tojump to any conclusions. Things are never as simple as obviously biased statistics like that make things appear.

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rookishMember

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #243 - on: 07.07.2009 at 14:15 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 07.07.2009 at 11:57 [UT+1]:
Rookish,It was Linda Goodman who explained the evolution of the soul through the natural order of the signs. She spelled it out in ‘Love Signs’.

Thanks for this - I knew I read it somewhere!
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Dahlia
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #244 - on: 07.07.2009 at 17:37 [UT+1] »Quote from Confutatis on 07.07.2009 at 07:32 [UT+1]:
I have Venus/Mercury in the 3rd house.

B in the 11th house. And Mars in the 9th house making opposition to Venus.

I have Mercury in the 3rd too, with Pluto. Mars in the 8th. Veeery similar charts.
My Mars trines Venus in the 12th. 8) Are you perhaps musically inclined?
I think the charts of Gopi Krishna, Dalai Lama, Carl Jung, Ghandi and etc could be checked to see if there aresome particular aspects/degrees or something else that they have in common if people really think stuff likethis can be seen in the chart.
Saturn, like I mentioned earlier, seems to have a part, but not always.
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Rainbow Seeker

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #245 - on: 07.07.2009 at 17:38 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 07.07.2009 at 12:37 [UT+1]:
RealWorld, you said:“The bottom line is that if guns had not been available, there would have been no Columbine massacre, no Virginia Tech massacre, andthe 10,000 people who are murdered every year in America would still be alive. There is overwhelming evidence that if guns are available
for citizens, people use them. “The problem with that statement is, if people want to commit massacre, or murder, or robbery or anything else, and guns are no longer
made available, those people will simply find another weapon to use – a knife, a club, a hand grenade, an arrow, a bomb, fire, etc. That’s
the whole point about gun control – it simply doesn’t work. If guns are taken away from the general citizenry, the criminals will still findways to commit horrific crimes against them with different weapons (and the citizenry will be incapable of defending themselves against
the criminals AND the government, who wields more weapons than any entity in the U.S., both in number and in power).
This further erodes the rights of citizens and gives more power to the government, thereby putting the citizenry even further at theirmercy. We are already completely at the mercy of our government financially. Taking away our weapons is simply the next step, by agovernment that is supposed to be representing our desires. This is NOT the picture the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote theconstitution – in fact, they intended the exact opposite.
By labeling every bullet and gun electronically, you have just created a Big Brother society. We already have enough of Big Brotherwatching us now. How much more control do we want to give to our government, and thereby take away our individual rights? The
constitution is slowly but surely being chipped away, but not so slowly that I can’t see it happening in my lifetime on an almost daily
basis. This deeply concerns me.
I am non-violent and always for peace. I don’t like guns, violence, or the idea that we have the freedom to essentially use all sorts of
weapons any time we want – but I still think ultimately the freedom of choice we currently have in this matter is better than having ourhands tied so that all we then become is sitting ducks with no way to defend ourselves. I don't own a gun or any kind of weapon, and I
hope I never need one, but if a situation arises where I'll need one, I won't hesitate to defend myself from harm or death.
Why do you think the extremist groups who'd like to go on killing sprees haven't done so yet and gotten away with it? Because the general
citizenry owns their own weapons. Take that away, and chaos and mayhem will ensue.
Regarding that list of statistics on hand guns, I would also like to see a true depiction of statistics on murders in proportion to populations,as well as all other murders committed by other methods before being quick to jump to any conclusions. Things are never as simple asobviously biased statistics like that make things appear.

at one point I'd agree with you , but it is just silly. You can agrue that well America has a probelm withviolence in General. And as long as there violence there will always be death and murder. That doesn't seem tobe what your saying.
But the bottom line is maybe they should've just gotten rid of the guns, or at least have better regulations ingetting them.
Collectively , I think it is true that each time someone gets killed by Gun violence , we all are the blame in theU.S.
It would be a change at least if there was an incident where someone attacked people in a gun mall with somewith a knife
or something....at least you might be able to handle that , But Kids getting access to firearms what do you do
then?
The whole Columbine incident is a damming look at the Gun culture, the Arms culture of the U.S, being thatthe town where that incident occured is Littleton , Colorado, where some big defense contractors are.
George Carlin , American Comic, a really bright man, had a clever saying about Gun control in America.
"They say if you outlaw Guns, only Outlaws will have guns; Well hell, arent those precisely the type of people
who need them"?
Another saying by another author goes "it will be a blessed day in American when schools and education is
overfunded and you need to raise a "bake sale " to buy a missile".
The thing about Columbine and Virgina Tech, That incident on 100 California St in S.F ,California and manyother assorted massarcre, is tht usually the gunmen were "law abiding citizens", before they went out andmassacred lots of cilivians.
Yet you know I should say, I have two guns, and might be going to the gun range soon. Now I see maybe inanother place and time, I ought to ditch these guns maybe someday I will .

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Deborah2
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #246 - on: 07.07.2009 at 17:50 [UT+1] »Reference: The problem with that statement is, if people want to commit massacre, or murder, or robbery or
anything else, and guns are no longer made available, those people will simply find another weapon to use –a knife, a club, a hand grenade, an arrow, a bomb, fire, etc. That’s the whole point about gun control – itsimply doesn’t work. If guns are taken away from the general citizenry, the criminals will still find ways tocommit horrific crimes against them with different weapons (and the citizenry will be incapable of defending
themselves against the criminals AND the government, who wields more weapons than any entity in the U.S.,
both in number and in power).
This is very intresting as a statement, not knowing of course I'm sure that it would be a prophetic one in just a
day or two.
This actually happened in China this morning....
clubs & Hatchets........used to maim & kill people in the streets. A terrible thing.
I recall Edgar Cayce said that from China, freedom will come for the entire world.....But it will be in anothergeneration not this one., when he spoke about the evolution of the masses.
From this Blog (maybe you can find the news elsewhere from China?)Many Dead in Xinjiang

David T, July 7th 2009, 9:00 am Scroll down:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/

It has been a bloody few days in Urumqi.
It is not particularly clear what is happening in Xinjiang. Reports suggest that this incident was the spark:
Residents had been angered by the Government’s handling of a clash last month between Han and Uighur
factory workers in southern China in which two Uighurs died. Locals had gathered after the hugely popular
Sunday market in Urumqi to demand redress for the dead men, killed after what proved to be a rumour thattwo Han girls had been raped by Uighurs at the factory.
The crowd refused to disperse and turned their rage on Han residents, who now make up the majority of the
population in Urumqi.
The unrest turned into rioting:
The rioters overturned roadside barriers, seized police cars, smashed the windscreens and then overturned andset fire to them. They burnt shops and offices and two apartment blocks.
State television showed several people near a bus station kicking a woman as she cowered on the ground. One
man slumped against a railing, one side of his face swollen from beatings. Another lay dead, his throat cut.
Most appeared to be Han.
One resident told The Times: “Two Han and two Kazakhs took refuge near the bazaar. They saw a girl with one
hand chopped off and her face slashed so that the flesh was almost cut off.” He said many of the victims weretrapped on buses by knife-wielding Uighurs. “They chopped at people like crazy. They didn’t seem to care if you
were Han or not.”He added that at first security forces held their fire but after a while he began to hear the sound of shooting. “I
don’t know if they were shooting into the crowd or into the sky to warn them.”
One young Han shopkeeper said. “They used hammers to break the windows. I was so afraid that I hid underthe bed with my sister-in-law. When they had taken everything they set fire to the store. We hid, covered byour quilt for three hours. Finally even the quilt caught fire.” However, both escaped with their lives. Uighurs said
the bloodletting should come as no surprise. One man said: “The Chinese always treat us as so low. They don’teven want to look us in the eye. This has been going on for centuries.”
Who they blame for this bloody (hatchet wielding) coup?:
BTW: Is this all about O J ?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aDClg50tzffs
Uighurs in Xinjiang’s capital, Urumqi, rioted July 5 over killings of Uighur migrant workers in southern China. At
least 156 people died and more than a thousand were detained in the riots, which a Foreign Ministry
spokesman, Qin Gang, called a “premeditated attack” by separatists on China’s national unity.

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Deborah2

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #247 - on: 07.07.2009 at 18:09 [UT+1] »Here is our local Independance Day newspaper cartoon ( type in page A33 and hit Enter)"Trust the People?"........with Free Speech, Guns, a Right to Protest & a Free Press?
"There is a Revolution that's never going to make it.........
(233 years and counting!)
http://epaper.aztrib.com/Default/Skins/EVTribune/Client.asp?Skin=EVTribune&D
aily=EVT&Enter=true&AppName=1&AW=1246986105924

O in c (exalted in the 11th House) m NN!
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realworld
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #248 - on: 07.07.2009 at 18:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 07.07.2009 at 12:37 [UT+1]:
By labeling every bullet and gun electronically, you have just created a Big Brother society. We already have enough of Big Brotherwatching us now. How much more control do we want to give to our government, and thereby take away our individual rights?

We don't think of credit card companies as Big Brother - we use credit cards as they are a convenient way ofborrowing money to pay for things. We don't think of our police force as Big Brother - they usually don't
bother us and only come to crime scenes only when called. They control crowds to maintain peace and have to
go to extreme lengths like asking a judge to get a warrant before being allowed legally to search anyone's
house or car.
We don't think of garbage collectors, bus drivers or postmen/women as Big Brother, but without them society
could not function. So in the same way, why should owning a an electronically-labelled gun or bullet be any
more threatening than credit cards, or that matter the new passports with RFID chips in them, or having closed
circuit security cameras in cities? They are designed not to be invasive unless one misuses them.
I think that this all underlines the astrology of the approaching Aquarian Age, which we discussed a while backon another thread. With Aquarius on the ascendant on a "world chart", Scorpio (control, secrecy, power) is on
the MC. I don't think that we can get away from that Scorpio energy. We can either use it negatively in violenceor get used to living with the fact that someone (the government, technology, police, credit card companies)
will be "watching us".
Quote:
Regarding that list of statistics on hand guns, I would also like to see a true depiction of statistics on murders in proportion to populations,as well as all other murders committed by other methods before being quick to jump to any conclusions. Things are never as simple asobviously biased statistics like that make things appear.[/color]

Yes, to be fair, we should look at the "per capita" statistics on murders, and as you and Debbie mentioned, notjust guns, but knives, poisonings and other methods. In the statistics I cited, I would multiply, as a ballpark
estimation, the other countries' statistics by 50, as there are 50 states in America and countries like England orJapan would fit into one of them, for example California. But even if we multiply the small countries' statistics
by 50, the U.S. gun statistics far outweigh many other countries.
If we want to look at murder statistics worldwide, India, Russia, Columbia and South Africa top the U.S., with
Columbia being #1 if we look at the per capita numbers:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders
It is true that these countries have different types of governments, but when we remember that one of themost famous lines in America's Declaration Of Independence specifically says "Life, liberty and the pursuit ofhappiness", we cannot perhaps wonder what went wrong.
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**Erin**

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #249 - on: 07.07.2009 at 21:33 [UT+1] »I know someone with almost every planet in fall or detriment, and a bunch of squares and oppositions.
Ironically, she's always been rather peaceful, caring, vibrant, tolerant, accepting, kind, despite having had 10very challenging kids. Then, a husband who doesn't even say he loves her or takes her out anymore.
She's also diabetic (sticking her finger 3-4times a day ), as well as s a nursing leader in the public healthcarecommunity, she's devoted much of her life to being an active patient advocate...to others always smiling andbeing of service while all hell appears to letting loose.
You just can't violate this woman, you can't piss her off, you can't steal her joy and peace.
IMO this would be closer to an 'evolved' soul if there were such a term we could agree on to begin with.
I personally know two conceited, self directed, and highly materialistic persons with nothing but "dignity" and"exaltation" in their chart. I just don't get all the hoopa that goes on behind such stereotypes.
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Ed Falis
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #250 - on: 07.07.2009 at 22:07 [UT+1] »Quote from Clairevoyante on 07.07.2009 at 01:37 [UT+1]:
I thnk there are some that are highly evolved but they must be here on this low evolution planet to help others and this is one indicationof who may be. Those who are kind and helpful, not terribly materialistic, give to others and give guidance can be seen that way. But it ishard to measure in my opinion.

I don't think we should consider this a low evolution planet. I run into all kinds of people who are living thebest they can by their lights. This often involves friendliness, going out of their way for other people and soon. Sure, there's the other kind too, and we all have our bad moments, but I think just about everyone sees
themselves as the hero of their life - by their own lights.
- Ed
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Gene Ray

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #251 - on: 07.07.2009 at 22:16 [UT+1] »[quote author=**Erin** link=1246374725/240#249 date=1246998780]I know someone with almost every
planet in fall or detriment, and a bunch of squares and oppositions.
Ironically, she's always been rather peaceful, caring, vibrant, tolerant, accepting, kind, despite having had 10very challenging kids. Then, a husband who doesn't even say he loves her or takes her out anymore.
Posts: 3329
Gender:She's also diabetic (sticking her finger 3-4times a day ), as well as s a nursing leader in the public healthcarecommunity, she's devoted much of her life to being an active patient advocate...to others always smiling andbeing of service while all hell appears to letting loose.
You just can't violate this woman, you can't piss her off, you can't steal her joy and peace.
IMO this would be closer to an 'evolved' soul if there were such a term we could agree on to begin with.

Hello Erin

I am not much into "highly evolved souls". Perhaps in part because I have not a clue as to whether such athing as a soul exists. Still you give an example of a woman who seems to have adjusted to her fate, which isdifficult for anyone.
How, I wonder, does she achieve this "peace of mind". How is C, c or the accidental third house ruler or the
3rd house itself represented in her chart? Or is it the B (emotional life) that is blessed perhaps by a p to G?
GeneI
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Deborah2
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #252 - on: 07.07.2009 at 22:24 [UT+1] »I read this book by the late writer John Fuller (who wrote many books that became best sellers) about theparanormal as well as others in the late 1970s early 80s. See his list of best sellers here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._FullerThis one was really good too; called "The Great Soul Trial". I lived thousands of miles from this location that
James Kidd died in, but funny, now that I'm long retired, I live now in the shadows of the same Mountain thatis referred to here:

From this Reporter:
http://www.globemiamitimes.com/day_tripper_article.php?id=81
The Great Soul Trial
Posted: Saturday, Feb 2, 2008
One of the longest and most sensational trials in Arizona history revolved around a Miami man, James Kidd who
lived in the area and worked for the Miami Copper Company for nearly 30 years in the early 1900’s. While hislife in the area, as well as his disappearance in 1946 was barely noteworthy, his final will & testament
launched him into the history books and initiated what became known as, The Great Soul Trial.
Kidd disappeared from his little cottage in Miami in November of 1946. When the police investigated they foundnothing missing in his apartment, and very little information on the man: he had no driver’s license, or police
record. He had no family. He had few friends. He left behind little for the police to go on. Was he murdered in
the Superstition Mountains looking for gold, or killed and thrown into one of his own mine shafts? No one
knows. Police here closed the case in 1954.
Only to find it re-opened by the State of Arizona two years later.
In 1956 the State passed a law requiring all financial institutions to report their findings of any dormant,
inactive accounts to the Estate Tax Commission. It was then that a safety deposit box which had beenabandoned for eight year in Douglas, Arizona was opened, and tracked back to James Kidd. Officials discovered
Kidd’s will….and $175,000 in cash and stock. Astonishingly, the handwritten will stated in part, “…that the bulkof his estate should go towards, ‘…research of some scientific proof of a soul of the human bodywhich leaves at death.”
When news of the will, and the attached “booty” was published in newspapers it drew a feeding frenzy frompsychics, churches, philosophers, research institutes and a variety of eccentrics who all wanted to lay claim to
the money. The ensuing trial to determine the recipient of Kidds’ last wish became known as, The Great Soul
Trial.
More info on the Great Soul Trial:
http://www.survivalafterdeath.org.uk/articles/rogo/kidd.htm
http://www.billjayonphotography.com/Search%20for%20the%20Soul.pdf
http://people.howstuffworks.com/9-strange-last-wills-and-testaments.htm/printabl e
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entrevisions

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #253 - on: 07.07.2009 at 22:49 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:12 [UT+1]:
Some astrologers use descriptions like "highly evolved"; some astrologers say that a planet in exaltation represents people who are"highly evolved".
I prefer the astrologer who said:"I do not accept any of this. I have never met any 'highly evolved' people; or, if I have, then they will have taken care not to let meknow about it. In any case, this is not a language I would use...It could be quite dangerous to assume that one was 'highly evolved', justas it is ridiculous to imagine oneself to be important."

what a pity ! i have five planets in exaltation and it would be great to hear this to boost me in this world or todecurse my GmASC, actually it boosts one thing : humility.
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #254 - on: 07.07.2009 at 22:57 [UT+1] »Quote from entrevisions on 07.07.2009 at 22:49 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:12 [UT+1]:
Some astrologers use descriptions like "highly evolved"; some astrologers say that a planet in exaltation represents people
who are "highly evolved".
I prefer the astrologer who said:"I do not accept any of this. I have never met any 'highly evolved' people; or, if I have, then they will have taken care
not to let me know about it. In any case, this is not a language I would use...It could be quite dangerous to assume that
one was 'highly evolved', just as it is ridiculous to imagine oneself to be important."

what a pity ! i have five planets in exaltation and it would be great to hear this to boost me in this world or to decurse my

GmASC,

actually it boosts one thing : humility.

Five planets in exaltation is a big boost, no doubt about that. It is really a philosophical argument. Many
astrologers do not even believe in reincarnation let alone evolving karmically.
Most astrologers I know would consider it highly in your favor. There is some debate among astrologers about
the exact meaning of dignities/debilites, but most of them have high regard for exaltation, at least in terms of
success with the planets.
In my research, where I have tested the various methods and assumptions that I was taught about astrology, I
did not see that a large number of planets in exaltation meant success or admiration, or that success wasdenied without them. What I saw was trend of support. Generally, a planet in exaltation was calling attention
to itself in the eyes of the astrologer, allowing the astrologer double check his figures.
It matters in my opinion, but there are so many things that are not superceded or overruled by it.
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Gene Ray

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #255 - on: 07.07.2009 at 23:07 [UT+1] »Quote from entrevisions on 07.07.2009 at 22:49 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:12 [UT+1]:
Some astrologers use descriptions like "highly evolved"; some astrologers say that a planet in exaltation represents people
who are "highly evolved".

Posts: 3329
Gender:I prefer the astrologer who said:"I do not accept any of this. I have never met any 'highly evolved' people; or, if I have, then they will have taken care
not to let me know about it. In any case, this is not a language I would use...It could be quite dangerous to assume that
one was 'highly evolved', just as it is ridiculous to imagine oneself to be important."

what a pity ! i have five planets in exaltation and it would be great to hear this to boost me in this world or to decurse myactually it boosts one thing : humility.

GmASC,

Hello Entrevisions

G m Asc...is it a close conjunction? What is your rising sign? In the old days (just like today) a lot of crap was
put out in books etc. One of the sayings was that it was difficult for the child (you) to survive with such aplacement.
My daughters mother had T G m here Ascendant at my daughters birth. That can easily be read as a time ofrestrictions or a difficult birth. Where was T Saturn (if you know) in your mothers chart at your birth? How doyou see this placement affecting you?Gene
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Lindac7
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #256 - on: 08.07.2009 at 01:51 [UT+1] »Rainbow Seeker, you said:"at one point I'd agree with you , but it is just silly. You can agrue that well America has a probelm withviolence in General. And as long as there violence there will always be death and murder. That doesn't seem tobe what your saying.
But the bottom line is maybe they should've just gotten rid of the guns, or at least have better regulations ingetting them.
It would be a change at least if there was an incident where someone attacked people in a gun mall with somewith a knife
Posts: 2029

or something....at least you might be able to handle that , But Kids getting access to firearms what do you do
then?

Gender:George Carlin said: "They say if you outlaw Guns, only Outlaws will have guns; Well hell, arent those precisely
the type of people who need them"?"This overall issue is comprised of many smaller issues:
A. How to regulate gun ownership (particularly keeping them out of children’s hands). We alreadyhave gun ownership regulations in place that SHOULD work. The fact that they don’t always work is
attributable to 3 things: (1) supposedly responsible adults who should know better than sell guns to a kid, but
do it for reasons of, I don’t know, greed? apathy? the desire to achieve what the kid wants the gun for? (2)kids who find ways to get around the regulations by getting their hands on guns in ways that are not right (likebreaking into Dad’s gun cabinet when he’s not around – not hard, pretty simple). (3) simple human error,
always a possibility in any situation.
The point is, if a kid wants a gun bad enough, he’ll find a way to get one, legal or not. It’s that simple.
B. Why violence is so rampant in the U.S. I don’t have the answer to this, but I certainly have some ideas– originating primarily with the open borders of the U.S., allowing people of all walks of life into our country.
This alone causes a lot of prejudice, discrimination, and hatred among people who have no desire tounderstand and tolerate each other. This is, I believe, the biggest cause of violence which has simply grownover time because of the long-standing hatred between people, regardless of who they are. Let’s not forget,
the years-long abuse of certain people by the white man (I’m thinking in particular the slaves, and the native
Americans who were pushed off their land). These two groups still carry wounds of pain and anguish from theway they were/are treated, and this still causes problems today. There are more, but I won’t take the time tolist them all.
Most other countries don’t experience nearly as much influx of people from other places that might not be‘welcome’ by those already there. In addition, the U.S. continually attempts to be an ‘international’ country,
welcoming all and trying to incorporate inclusion and understanding among all people, but there are always
countries at war, and when people from those 2 or more countries are living in the U.S., that causes automatic
friction between those people.
One last possibility is that some normally good, honest U.S. citizens are just plain getting fed up with thedirection our country is going, and are deciding to take matters into their own hands because they don’t feel
our laws and justice system correctly handle the problems they perceive.
C. George Carlin’s joke about outlaws being the only people who need guns. Keep in mind, this was a
JOKE, and I absolutely adore George Carlin – I’m one of his biggest fans. If outlaws have guns and nobody
else has them, you’ve just empowered the outlaws to do more harm, while the people who NEED guns (toprotect themselves from the outlaws), are now helpless. Does that make sense? I don’t think so. By the way,outlaws don’t NEED guns – they simply WANT them to make their ‘jobs’ easier. Let's say a bank teller had a
gun and could shoot the robber enough to stop him but not kill him, thereby allowing the cops to lock him up
and stop him from doing more harm, doesn’t that make more sense? Isn’t that helping to stop crime, andhelping justice and peace to prevail? I think so. I’m not necessarily suggesting we should allow this, but
simply drawing the illustration to make a point. If we were to ever actually consider something like this, tasers
obviously make more sense.
D. Myself I look at the whole gun issue from my own personal perspective. I’m a single woman living alone.
If someone tried to break into my house and/or to hurt me in any way, I am physically small and notparticularly strong. If this person has any weapon with the intention of using it on me, I don’t have muchchance of overpowering this person once they get close enough to me. My only hope for protection is to havea gun and to shoot them before they get close enough. I DON’T HAVE A GUN. I don’t even like the idea of
having a gun in my house - it makes me nervous. I hate violence. So are you suggesting that I should do
nothing and just allow my intruder to do whatever harm they intend to me, because my right to defend my life
has been taken away by a government telling me I don’t have the right to own a gun? This makes no sense tome, and I think I have the right to defend my right to live, regardless of how the government tries to controlme.
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Lindac7

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #257 - on: 08.07.2009 at 02:11 [UT+1] »By the way, I love George Carlin's idea about how to 'take care of' all the hardened criminals who like using
weapons. He said we should completely evacuate 4 states (Kansas, Wyoming, Colorado and Utah), erect VERY
high fences around their borders, and put all the hardened criminals in one, all the crazies in another, all the
druggies in another, all the sex criminals in another, let the hardened criminals have all the weapons they want,
and let them kill each other off. After all, many of them would have been sitting on death row, anyway.
This would certainly eliminate the need for so much taxpayer's money to pay for prisons, and we could then usethat money for something more constructive.
I specifically recall him assigning the druggies to Colorado - where they could experience a true rocky mountain
Posts: 2029
Gender:high.

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Deborah2
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #258 - on: 08.07.2009 at 02:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 08.07.2009 at 02:11 [UT+1]:
By the way, I love George Carlin's idea about how to 'take care of' all the hardened criminals who like using weapons. He said we should
completely evacuate 4 states (Kansas, Wyoming, Colorado and Utah), erect VERY high fences around their borders, and put all thehardened criminals in one, all the crazies in another, all the druggies in another, all the sex criminals in another, let the hardened criminals
have all the weapons they want, and let them kill each other off. After all, many of them would have been sitting on death row, anyway.
This would certainly eliminate the need for so much taxpayer's money to pay for prisons, and we could then use that money for something
more constructive.
I specifically recall him assigning the druggies to Colorado - where they could experience a true rocky mountain high.

I liked George very much too.
However, if truth be known, George Carlin was a "druggie" much of his life,
and therefore, he'd be on one side of that fence getting knocked off (and no doubt he knew this)
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1012569,00.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj5Sd3BRm_I

Carlin speaks of luck, hard work & drugs

His greatest, IMO "The Hippy dippy Weatherman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1uaw3WIOlc&feature=related

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #259 - on: 08.07.2009 at 02:43 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 08.07.2009 at 02:11 [UT+1]:
By the way, I love George Carlin's idea about how to 'take care of' all the hardened criminals who like using weapons. He said we should
completely evacuate 4 states (Kansas, Wyoming, Colorado and Utah), erect VERY high fences around their borders, and put all thehardened criminals in one, all the crazies in another, all the druggies in another, all the sex criminals in another, let the hardened criminals
have all the weapons they want, and let them kill each other off. After all, many of them would have been sitting on death row, anyway.
This would certainly eliminate the need for so much taxpayer's money to pay for prisons, and we could then use that money for something
more constructive.
I specifically recall him assigning the druggies to Colorado - where they could experience a true rocky mountain high.

George was looking out for his peeps.
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Rainbow Seeker
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #260 - on: 08.07.2009 at 07:16 [UT+1] »D. Myself I look at the whole gun issue from my own personal perspective. I’m a single woman living alone.
If someone tried to break into my house and/or to hurt me in any way, I am physically small and notparticularly strong. If this person has any weapon with the intention of using it on me, I don’t have muchchance of overpowering this person once they get close enough to me. My only hope for protection is to havea gun and to shoot them before they get close enough. I DON’T HAVE A GUN. I don’t even like the idea of
having a gun in my house - it makes me nervous. I hate violence. So are you suggesting that I should do
nothing and just allow my intruder to do whatever harm they intend to me, because my right to defend my life
has been taken away by a government telling me I don’t have the right to own a gun? This makes no sense
to me, and I think I have the right to defend my right to live, regardless of how the government tries tocontrol me.

Golly don't get touchy....
Listen I felt just like you. What did me alot of good.One day, I went out and brought the biggest gun I could
find. A Shotgun.
I'm not a small frail person, but I got tired of being threatened by people, who were "going to hit me , then mymother". I got the gun for my mom's behalf,she lives in a 2 story four bedroom house , taking care of mygrandmother and my young niece.
For home protection, a shotgun is good, better than a pistol or a semi-auto pistol. You can get a pump action.20 gauge ( they recommend .20 gauges for smaller framed people, almost the power of a .12 gauge). Pump
action shotguns are good for intimidating intruders. Someone breaks in your house , you hear them,
you pump your shotgun, they hear it and there out the building , unless there really deterimed. Plus
if your really a peacenik, you can load your shot gun with non-lethal birdshot, or none at all. Just
pointing one of those things at someone is scary enough. If your really mean you can load it with 0-0-0
buckshot.... Some people like a small gun for personal protection too. If you live in the U.S thats the way togo.
Better hurry before Obama decides to tax ammo 500%, or before firearms become truly expensive, unaffordable.
But then an intruder breaks into your home, you could always break out your guitar and play "cumba- ya",maybe that might work.
I'm like you ,if your a musician,its kind of a repugnant idea..working with firearms. Before I ended up buyingthat shot gun, I brought a guitar, and spend a couple of years learning to play Classic guitar. My guitar teacher
said "he had a good gun" he was a great guitar player. And still there are plenty of good reason not to own afirearm...if you can think of any.
You can learn the Martial Arts..being physical and mentally prepared to defend yourself is a defense and adeterent.
The Stats for owning a firearm, and using it defense of your self vs using the gun on yourself aren't good. It
seems that gun owners end up using the guns on themselves or a loved one more often than in defense of theirproperty.
Also, smart peopple I think , when in danger or in dangerous area, they leave, don't stick around. Go
someplace where you can live the way you like in peace.
Guns and firearms seems to be a bit of a magnet for violence and bad luck.
Theres also the principle I mentioned before , that the only really evolved person on the planet is a dead man.
In dreamwork, one teacher I know ( who seems to be a master in this area of psychology) is always interested
in balence ; because it seem life requires along with the light principles, also the dark principles, like dishonesty,
wounding, stress, violence, assertion. Seems that you can always focus on the light principles without the dark
issues coming up, so you have to integrate both principles for wholeness.
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Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #261 - on: 08.07.2009 at 07:48 [UT+1] »Quote from Gene Ray on 07.07.2009 at 23:07 [UT+1]:
Quote from entrevisions on 07.07.2009 at 22:49 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 30.06.2009 at 16:12 [UT+1]:
Some astrologers use descriptions like "highly evolved"; some astrologers say that a planet in exaltation
represents people who are "highly evolved".
I prefer the astrologer who said:"I do not accept any of this. I have never met any 'highly evolved' people; or, if I have, then they will havetaken care not to let me know about it. In any case, this is not a language I would use...It could be quite
dangerous to assume that one was 'highly evolved', just as it is ridiculous to imagine oneself to beimportant."

what a pity ! i have five planets in exaltation and it would be great to hear this to boost me in this world or to decurse myASC, actually it boosts one thing : humility.

Gm

Hello Entrevisions

G m Asc...is it a close conjunction? What is your rising sign? In the old days (just like today) a lot of crap was put out in books etc. One of
the sayings was that it was difficult for the child (you) to survive with such a placement.
My daughters mother had T
here Ascendant at my daughters birth. That can easily be read as a time of restrictions or a difficult birth.

Gm

Where was T Saturn (if you know) in your mothers chart at your birth? How do you see this placement affecting you?
Gene

my GmASC with a 7°orb pBnD, my mother gave discipline but i have suffer from her absence and even her
rejection when i was young because she was hospitalised for serious disease, forcing me to awaken myself very
early in my life. I am an aries, and aries hate being slow down or impede at times you know...my AnJsG it is
kept under heavy control like callie said, it is so exasperating because i must find ways to feed my ego and i
can't. Now, the people see me as someone very responsible, rigid, authoritarian, cautious and with a pessimistic
attitude that kill daily happiness.
Thanks stephen for your insights, i am inclined to think that my saturn and pluto tend to block the energies ofother planets.
To me, i am amazed by the O type, i think if someone have a proeminent O and IF to add visions, it can
result on a highly evolved type : someone who got insane avant-gardists& brilliants ideas able to foresee theloss leader, the music, the fashion, the future values, the new religion, the invention that appeal&please themasses. Someone who don't like to be shaped by the rule of society because it is to much normative. It is justmy point of view and it's not beared by any experience of a chart that lead me to put forward decisive aspects.
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Lindac7
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #262 - on: 08.07.2009 at 08:21 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 08.07.2009 at 07:16 [UT+1]:

Golly don't get touchy....

Don't worry, I wasn't getting touchy - I was simply taking your position out to the next logical, worst casescenario. If we ban the use of guns, that means I can't have one, and if some crazed lunatic decides to breakinto my house, I have no way of defending myself. Martial arts are not a realistic solution for me. My feet are
not strong enough to handle that. Also, removing myself from my house when I have an intruder is a slightpossibility, but not a very good one.
Posts: 2029
Gender:I've been told by other men, too, that I should get a shotgun. The whole idea of having a gun at all just makes
me nervous. I like your idea of the pump shotgun because of the noise factor. I think if I ever decide toactually get some sort of weapon, a taser is probably the most likely thing I'd consider.
But then an intruder breaks into your home, you could always break out your guitar and play "cumba- ya",maybe that might work.
Now that was funny!
The Stats for owning a firearm, and using it defense of your self vs using the gun on yourself aren't good. It
seems that gun owners end up using the guns on themselves or a loved one more often than in defense of theirproperty.
Yes, I've heard those statistics - just one of the reasons why having a gun in the house makes me nervous.
Go someplace where you can live the way you like in peace.
I just recently have moved to a place where I can live the way I like in peace. I feel safe here, but the problem
is, there is really no place that is truly safe, and I'm thinking long term here, about catastrophes and any worst
case scenarios where people might be forced to roam the streets searching for food and shelter - basic survival,
you know? I really think a situation like this is likely to happen some time in my life time, so I want to beprepared. Having a viable way to defend myself is important in this case.

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chatcat

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #263 - on: 08.07.2009 at 08:25 [UT+1] »Quote from vertex on 30.06.2009 at 17:40 [UT+1]:
I knew someone with four exalted planets and he was far from evolved. He was total asshole, actually!!

Posts: 1967
Gender:Yes four exalted planets but doing what and where. It is a nonsense to make this sort of statement without
taking into consideration the whole chart.

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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #264 - on: 08.07.2009 at 16:46 [UT+1] »Lindac7,
The reasons the police recommend the shotgun for gun owners is they speak of a compact pump which is like ariot gun (widely available).
The beauty is the loud noise, but most of all, the shot cannot travel through walls to kill loved ones orneighbors.
It is easier to hit your target. It is easier to scare your target, and it is safer on the innocent bystanders.
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realworld

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #265 - on: 08.07.2009 at 18:18 [UT+1] »Re guns: I don't mean to sound trite, but has anybody ever wondered, "What would Jesus do?"Back to top

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Rainbow Seeker
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #266 - on: 08.07.2009 at 18:42 [UT+1] »Well with any Shotgun, it depends on the type of ammo you use. I think it is the bigger the size of the shot ,the more likely its going to travel through walls. 0-0 buckshot in a .12 gauge will travel through wall it is said.
So for in home, in small quarters the higher the type of shot, the smaller the pellets are. Birdshot is said not
likely to travel trough walls much and may only cause serious injury if aimed at someone at close range, whereas the lower the type of shot, the large the size pellets , the more lethal it can be and penetrating.
Also for smaller framed people , they reccomend the .20 Gauge, almost as powerful as a 12 gauge,but notquite the "kick" of a .12 gauge. The lethal type of shot for that type of gauge is supposed to be #3 buckshot,
about the size of B'B's, whearas for a .12 guage its 0-0 shot which are about 12 pellets in a cartidge than
twice the size of "B.B's
A taser probably isn't very good for home protection. A whole lot of people have the same type of concerns you
have Lindac7, I do , but after a while you just got to quit replaying those disaster tapes .
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Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #267 - on: 08.07.2009 at 18:48 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 08.07.2009 at 18:18 [UT+1]:
Re guns: I don't mean to sound trite, but has anybody ever wondered, "What would Jesus do?"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOEenPJbAh0
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Deborah1
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #268 - on: 08.07.2009 at 19:00 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez nas on 08.07.2009 at 18:48 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 08.07.2009 at 18:18 [UT+1]:
Re guns: I don't mean to sound trite, but has anybody ever wondered, "What would Jesus do?"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOEenPJbAh0

That is funny (in a wierd way)
But it just goes towards the understanding that free will changes the earth and the reality for everyone.
Everyone affects everyone else in subtle ways if not the concrete ones. Collectively, each contributes to thewhole.

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #269 - on: 08.07.2009 at 19:01 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 08.07.2009 at 18:18 [UT+1]:
Re guns: I don't mean to sound trite, but has anybody ever wondered, "What would Jesus do?"What you know about Jesus comes from the Bible, a wretchedly limited and contradictory source. After years
of fondling by religious agents with an axe to grind, it is not reliable.
I personally don't think "Thou shalt not commit sefl-defense" was at the core of his teaching. I do not thinkmartyrhood was his crowning achievement. You must ask yourself, do you worship a book?
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IP Logged**Erin**Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #270 - on: 08.07.2009 at 20:26 [UT+1] »Does any know where the saying "live by the gun, die by the gun" comes from?

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SeaGoat72

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #271 - on: 08.07.2009 at 20:29 [UT+1] »America?

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Rainbow Seeker
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #272 - on: 08.07.2009 at 20:37 [UT+1] »I dunknow, I think if Jesus went around the U.S like in olde times, he'd probably get jacked...Jesus would be
hard pressed to defend himself. MAd Tv is nt funny., sorry.

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Ed Falis

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #273 - on: 08.07.2009 at 20:38 [UT+1] »Quote from **Erin** on 08.07.2009 at 20:26 [UT+1]:
Does any know where the saying "live by the gun, die by the gun" comes from?

I think it was "live by the sword; die by the sword", and that goes at least as far back as Europe or the Middle
East.
- Ed
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Lindac7
Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #274 - on: 08.07.2009 at 20:51 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 08.07.2009 at 18:18 [UT+1]:
Re guns: I don't mean to sound trite, but has anybody ever wondered, "What would Jesus do?"Jesus would allow himself to be killed, and would not bother fighting back at all.
After all, that IS exactly what he did.
The difference is, he had the power to resurrect himself. I don't - and neither do the rest of us mortals.

Posts: 2029
Gender:Understand, I don't believe in killing - I'm not talking about killing my attacker; just hurting them enough tostop them from killing me until the cops can come and haul them away.

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VivishaEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #275 - on: 08.07.2009 at 20:55 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 08.07.2009 at 20:37 [UT+1]:
I dunknow, I think if Jesus went around the U.S like in olde times, he'd probably get jacked...Jesus would be hard pressed to defend
himself. MAd Tv is nt funny., sorry.

not sure if you are saying you are drunk now or you don't know, perhaps both?
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SeaGoat72
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #276 - on: 08.07.2009 at 21:19 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 08.07.2009 at 20:38 [UT+1]:
Quote from **Erin** on 08.07.2009 at 20:26 [UT+1]:
Does any know where the saying "live by the gun, die by the gun" comes from?

I think it was "live by the sword; die by the sword", and that goes at least as far back as Europe or the Middle East.
- Ed

I had to look it up:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"Live by the sword, die by the sword" is a metaphorical expression meaning that living one's life in a certain way
will, in the end, affect one's destiny. The proverb comes from the Book of Matthew, verse 26:52, which
describes a follower of Jesus drawing a sword to defend him against Roman soldiers, but is rebuked by Jesus,
who tells him to sheath the weapon:
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish
with the sword.
—Matthew 26:52, King James Version
While the expression strictly-interpreted means “those who live by violence will die by violence”, it is also used
for a variety of situations which contain an element of poetic justice. For instance the proverb could be used todescribe a person who regularly drives under the influence and is ultimately killed in a vehicle accident causedby their intoxication. A deeper meaning alludes to "those who judge will be judged" in reference to Matthew 7:2
and Luke 6:37 which can also be interpreted as poetic justice for those observed to be wrongfully condemningothers. Other variants on this phrase are also commonly used.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_by_the_sword,_die_by_the_sword"
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Ed Falis

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #277 - on: 08.07.2009 at 21:27 [UT+1] »Thanks for the research, SG.
- Ed
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Deborah1
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #278 - on: 08.07.2009 at 22:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Vivisha on 08.07.2009 at 20:55 [UT+1]:
Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 08.07.2009 at 20:37 [UT+1]:

I dunknow, I think if Jesus went around the U.S like in olde times, he'd probably get jacked...Jesus would be hardpressed to defend himself. MAd Tv is nt funny., sorry.

not sure if you are saying you are drunk now or you don't know, perhaps both?

IF we went by Edgar Cayce (and I do), who knew the Lord personally while alive and often contacted his
vibration in trance, he'd have told us I'm sure that it's VERY funny!
He tells us also, that Jesus (contrary to popular belief of a suffering Messiah),both Laughed on the way carrying
his cross as well as joked.
He had a hell of a sense of humor and would have loved it!
Magazine writers!

For he is the God of ALL people, even Mad

Excerpt from 3003-1
For if ye lose that ability to laugh, ye lose that ability to be joyous. And the religion, the principle of the Christlife is joyous!
37. For, remember - He laughed even on the way to Calvary; not as pictured so oft, but laughed even at
those that tormented Him. This is what angered them the most.
from 2448-2 (extract)
29. See the funny side - don't be too serious. Remember, He even made the joke as He walked to the garden
to be betrayed. Remember, He looked with love upon His disciple that denied Him, even as He stood alone.
or from 2995-1:
30. Not as one to be long-faced. For, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof - in JOY! Do not see thedark side too oft. Turn it over - there's another side to every question. Cultivate in self humor, wit. Ye enjoy it
in others, others enjoy it in thee. But too oft it becomes to thee foolishness. KNOW that thy Lord, thy God,LAUGHED - even at the Cross. For He wept with those who wept, and rejoiced with those who rejoiced.
One of the more telling traits of an evolved soul, is the ability and willingness to laugh at oneself, and not takethe self (ego) so seriously after all.
Look at the Dalai Lama, he does this all the time. Don't let the ego get into the way of a good belly laugh. And
you do this by not taking one's self (the ego) so damned seriously. Realize it will
go away like "poof" on the fire. Like it never was.
We all however do react to outside pressure and that's only human.
To realize that is what we are doing, is the "key" to a deeper understanding.

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MyriosEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #279 - on: 08.07.2009 at 22:52 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 08.07.2009 at 20:29 [UT+1]:
America?

I was still laughing from Naz's Terminator video when you hit my funny bone again with that one-word hoot,Seagoat ...ahahahahahaha...
Both my husband and I (separately, and on different occasions) have been on the wrong end of a loaded gun in
America, but lived, unharmed, to tell the tale.
I'm terrified of loaded guns, can't touch them, but INSIST my husband keep plenty of ammo around for thekinds of reasons Lindac mentioned. If the shit hits the fan, (I persuade myself), I at least will have the optionof killing myself rather than be beaten, raped, or killed at the hands of "others". Remember Hurricane Katrina's
aftermath and the raped babies?
In my new neck of the woods, America still believes in the old triple SSS rule - "Shoot, Shovel, and Shutup" ...
I kid you not. There are plenty of "devolved" types out there as far as I can tell ... and the whole world by now
is deeply acclimatised to what some ppl here call "filth" ... while others call it "mindfuck"... or abject horror ...
Institutionalised rape in Serbia/Croatia ... African genocide perpetrated by Chinese HATCHETS ... guns not evennecessary ... just an everyday tool that plenty ppl have on hand.
Talk of "high" evolvement? We can each "devolve" in a heartbeat given the "right" set of circumstances.
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LisaluEx Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #280 - on: 08.07.2009 at 23:49 [UT+1] »Quote from debbieM on 06.07.2009 at 22:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 06.07.2009 at 21:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from Shokk on 06.07.2009 at 04:35 [UT+1]:

I'd say the problem is humans, not guns.

I agree, but it seems that some humans are more of a problem than others:

In 2004 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns were used in the murder of :5 people in New Zealand
37 people in Sweden
56 people in Australia
184 people in Canada
19 people in Japan73 people in the UKand11,344 people in the United States
from: http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

It may be difficult to do, (perhaps not)?

but is there anyway to get the statistics in these same countries fordeath via knives, and other means of killing people?
Just to stay on the fair side of balance?
In South Carolina this week, there is a serial killer on the loose.
Everyone is running to the stores for handguns .............as this man kills indiscriminately anyone, whether they are young or old, bybreaking into their homes or businesses.
A cop was in a shootout today in North Carolina (over the border) of this state.....and they aren't yet sure if it was with the Serial Killer orjust a fluke.

I'd like to see the statistics of the other murders and how they were perpetrated. Either by stick ,knife or whatever in the same countries as listed if that is possible.
http://www.wwaytv3.com/node/16875
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090704/ap_on_re_us/us_sc_killing_spree

The spree had alarmed residents canceling Independence Day holiday plans and arming themselves. The sheriff has warned door-to-doorsalesmen to stop knocking and anyone who breaks down on the county's rural roads to wait instead of walking to a house for help because
he worries "people are going to start shooting at shadows."

No, people in the other countries dont go around killing people with knives or sticks to make up the numbers.
Its much harder to kill someone with a knife or a stick than it is to shoot them - and much more visceral too i
imagine.
I watch Micheal Moore movies (and im sure he's got his bias too) and that tells me enough about the grand oldUSA. The populist view most Australians have of Americans is gun toting nutters with no welfare system
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Deborah1

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #281 - on: 09.07.2009 at 00:04 [UT+1] »LisaLu: I was asking for statistical analysis (what you highlighted) and not viewpoint, although I would haveto agree, even when the Chinese people used Hatchets the other day to kill people, that guns MUST still takethe lead.
I'm sorry that Aussies have that kind of view of Americans, and hope it's not all of them who feel this way (I'msure it's not)......as many come and live here at least part time, full time and in the movie industries as well as
in the more liberal states.
Everyone is different for sure, but Americans DO love their Constitutional Rights and will die to defend
them.
EVEN by a gun.
It seems to me that everytime we go and enter into a war, we are telling the masses in America, that they are
giving their lives to "defend our rights".......and these rights include the right to "bear arms" in our own homes.
So, this would be saying in effect that it's stupid to go to a war with this type of attitude in mind as well as tothank those who do. Why then do so many hold parades and thank them on Memorial Day & our other holidays
like Veterans Day thanking them profusely for "saving and defending our Rights?"
confusing I know.
Of course with any Rights, one has to take the good along with the bad. And this includes people who abuse
their rights. Censorship for instance, is a Right which can be abused in this country, but it's another Right that
Americans hold "near & dear" and are very reluctant to give up. These are the type of Rights called our "Bill of
Rights" that our soldiers die for.
Since you mentioned the M. Moore movie, as he rightly pointed out, "Canadians own more guns
per capita then Americans in the U.S.A." so, clearly, the problem IS the mentality of those who abuse this right,
and not the ubiquity of ownership.
Re: statistics:
184 people in Canada

19 people in Japan73 people in the UKand11,344 people in the United States

Either MichaelMoore made a huge mistake when he said this, OR the numbers are way off!
He has made other errors in his movies as well as exaggerations so I'm not sure what to think about his
numbers.

(just my 2cents on both Wars &Rights)........which can be debated endlessly I'm sure.
p.s. I hope Mr. Moore didn't make another gross exaggeration when leaving some to believe that there is no
welfare system in America, because we do have one.
It's often used and abused by many however, and poor maintenance or follow up for the abusers.
What we lack is a Health Care System, not a Welfare System.

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**Erin**
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #282 - on: 09.07.2009 at 02:51 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 08.07.2009 at 20:29 [UT+1]:
America?

Actually, I think that was the correct answer to who said the saying "Live by the gun, die by the gun"Thanks for looking up the details to that saying (you posted later), I was at work (lunch break) at the time I
had that question and couldn't stay online too long.
Truthfully, I didn't read all the posts related to guns and such, but the part of the discussion I caught just mademe think back to the experiences I've had related to violence and guns.
I grew up in the ghetto (literally) I was probably the only white girl for miles. Anyways, I even spent years
living on the streets and have even been involved in crime by the way of the dope game and that comes with it,
been a stripper, been a hustler, been involved with a gang.
My ex (kid's Father) always had a gun near-by, ironically he's been shot on 3 different occasions, though hesurvived he's serving life in prison. I've actually lost many close people to guns, whether it was suicide ormurder.
People have been killing each other for ages. Anger and fear are the issues, not guns.
While I've been around guns I don't and couldn't hold on myself. I've never been scared of them though, justhave more faith than I probably should.
Anyways, I've been a county trauma nurse for while and I've just had so many patients who have been shot,some recovered though many have died. It's amazing how many have opened up to me and spilled their beans
and all had one thing in common...guns. One also had his pistol on hand but one day drove up the store
without it and ironically someone walked up and opened fire on him. He's paralyzed now. I just wondered in myhead "why?" Why did he put so much faith in a damn gun? I just wouldn't trust one myself. Please don't takethese thoughts as me saying people who get shoted or killed by guns do so cause of karma, like in the saying I
had inquired about.
I actually got that off one of my deceased patient's tattoo, and wondered where it came from. That's all.
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Spiral 28

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #283 - on: 09.07.2009 at 03:33 [UT+1] »Erin, your story really touched me. I think we all live every single kind of existence there is as we go from one
life to another, in order to experience every role and every challenge as we evolve. Your life has been facedwith some of the most difficult, more than most people have to endure, yet you are here, an intelligent
searcher of why and how, as we all are. To me, as you have evloved out of previous situations and now takecare of others, this is what this thread on who is highly evolved is all about.

Posts: 3639
Gender:In the Sabian Symbols, Taurus 7, by Dane Rudhyar, he writes about the story of Jesus deciding who to tell as
the very first person that he was the messiah. He would not reveal this to just anyone, not to one of his
disciples or a high official or a family member, as he did not think any of them had the life experience tounderstand what a higher calling is really all about. The first person he told was "The woman of Samaria". She
belonged to a disreputable tribe, she was unmarried and had lived a rather scandalous life in someconservative opinons and had lived with men not her husbands,
the truth when he asked her.

yet she looked him in the eye and told him

Rudhyar says he ....."had come to replace the old tribal order with a new order based on Universal Love. " Itwas not to anyone of the old established order of society that he could reveal himself. .... "not to men still
attached to the old order that Jesus could reveal his spiritual, evolutionary, and society-transforming
status........ But to the woman of Samaria, who in her opening to accepting life and love's urgings had already
repudiated any narrow subservience to the old order, Jesus could reveal his function."
There has been no more revolutionary and transforming figure to change an entire society than Jesus when hetold her, "I am He." And she alone could accept disorder in the name of a new Power which transforms all life.
She had lived enough for ten lives of experiences to know what life and love was all about.
power from him and understood immediately.

She felt the

So all of your experiences, Erin, to survive your dangerous circumstances, would have done more to evolve
you in this life than ten peaceful lives where people are self satisfied and smug and in a rut. This life you havebeen on a fast track. As a result, you will get so much more out of astrology and philosophy studies thanthose who are closed minded.
Highly evolved could simply mean highly experienced, and moving forward.
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solarwind
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #284 - on: 09.07.2009 at 04:21 [UT+1] »how many people are really self satisfied smug in a rut and closed minded? 20 40 50 80%?

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Rainbow Seeker

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #285 - on: 09.07.2009 at 06:05 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 09.07.2009 at 04:21 [UT+1]:
how many people are really self satisfied smug in a rut and closed minded? 20 40 50 80%?

How would you rate yourself "Solar"? about 60 %?
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SeaGoat72
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #286 - on: 09.07.2009 at 06:05 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 09.07.2009 at 04:21 [UT+1]:
how many people are really self satisfied smug in a rut and closed minded? 20 40 50 80%?

Maybe there is another way of looking at it.
100% scared of living and angry - the qualities you mentioned are by-products and compensations.
"Closed minded" sounds like "unevolved", this kind of epithets are not very popular.

Thanks, Erin
You are welcome to Ed
Hi to Myrios
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solarwind

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #287 - on: 09.07.2009 at 07:41 [UT+1] »not sure about your question rainbow david...but thank you for rating so high in self satisfaction and closemindedness
what brought you to this number? i am curious about the thought process....nevermind i ve read your help
post....
in the big picture
who cares what anyone thinks about themselves...if most think that they are "smart evolved" people how comethis world is such a indifferent at best but mostly hateful violent place
where people quick with the baselessjudgement like they never do anything wrong
in a moment, lie, steal, betray, kill on a whim...just because they feel so they can slander someone's namespiral called most of the people self satisfied smug in a rut and closed minded in the post above...and it was areason for my question...how many people grade themselves and others as such.....obviously you and others
do grade others and themselves....
100% scared of living and angry - the qualities you mentioned are by-products and compensations.
again it wasnt my words sea goat it was spiral's.observation... but it's interesting to know that you think that
100%! are scared and angry

i am neither angry or scared

an annoyance is a better word choice here....

to bring it all to astrology, i would again suggest that most of great artists writers musicians must be higher
evolved than most and i would look at the septiles in their charts....
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SeaGoat72
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #288 - on: 09.07.2009 at 09:23 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 09.07.2009 at 07:41 [UT+1]:
i am neither angry or scared

You must be evolved, then.
Everybody has Saturn somewhere, and afraid of known or unknown things. Pain, disease, death, wife, guns,
snakes, failure, not being pretty enough, not being smart enough, not finding the meaning of life, being
nobody, fear to lose a job, lover or never find love, of losing respect of others.
There is a good deal of physical animal fears in us as well.
Internally, we are whirlpools of different kinds of small and big fears, "rational" and irrational. There is a lot ofinternal conflict, and this easily leads to expressing the conflict externally. This is almost natural.
Most people feel good when compare themselves to others and affirming they are less miserable. Competitionand striving to find a better spot for ourselves is a form of agression. And way of dealing with fears.

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Spiral 28

Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #289 - on: 09.07.2009 at 16:26 [UT+1] »Solarwind, you misquote me. I did not say "most people" were closed minded, only those who have lived safe
and comfortable and secure lives and have no reason to go outside their comfort zone to experience moredangerous or "far-out" concepts.
"So all of your experiences, Erin, to survive your dangerous circumstances, would have done more to evolve
you in this life than ten peaceful lives where people are self satisfied and smug and in a rut. This life you havebeen on a fast track. As a result, you will get so much more out of astrology and philosophy studies thanPosts: 3639

those who are closed minded."

Gender:I really do not care how "popular" the words closed-minded are, they describe perfectly the ones who would
never reach beyond what they have been taught in the traditional society. As for instance, worrying about
what is popular.
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Deborah1
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #290 - on: 09.07.2009 at 17:42 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 09.07.2009 at 04:21 [UT+1]:
how many people are really self satisfied smug in a rut and closed minded? 20 40 50 80%?

At least two people that I can think of spoke and agreed about the percentages of the mass collective minded
folks who are "as sheep"......or who follow along with the collective and do not really think much forthemselves, hence can be read fairly easily even in astrological natal charts.
Cayce said it much more succinctly I think, and the other, was it Plato? just called them the followers.
the percentage is about 80% (are the sheep) easily read
The minority (more evolved human beings) who think for themselves and are independant from the crowd arebroken down in the remaining 20%(from what I recall, he said the remainder was approx. 15% who work diligently on themselves andtherefore are evolving steadily) and the 5% who have no need to return here again.

Here is one extract I happened to have found:I need to look for the others inlcluding Plato's reference.
5753-3 (extracted) from reading: Note: The reference to scientific approach had to do with his son
wanting to find an approach for vocational guidance for his Boy Scout troups:
4. The astrological aspects may give a tendency, an inclination; and a systematic, scientific study of same would
indicate the vocation. And about eighty percent of the individuals would be in the position of being
influenced by such astrological aspects; or would be in the position for their abilities to be indicated fromsame.
5. But the other twenty percent would not be in that position, due to the influences from activity or the useof their abilities in material experience. Hence in these it would be not only necessary that their materialsojourns be given, but as to what had been accomplished through same, and that to be met in the present
experience. For, as has been indicated, no influence - astrologically or from material sojourns - surpasses thewill or the determination of the individual. Then, there are material factors that rule or govern or direct or
influence such forces. These may be tempered by the astrological aspects, but these are not (the astrologicalaspects) the major influence or force, - the will.
6. Thus, only about eighty percent of the individuals may have their abilities indicated from theastrological aspects in the direction of vocational guidance, as to be a determining factor for such.
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Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #291 - on: 09.07.2009 at 17:45 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 09.07.2009 at 07:41 [UT+1]:
not sure about your question rainbow david...but thank you for rating so high in self satisfaction and close mindedness
what brought you to this number? i am curious about the thought process....nevermind i ve read your help post....
in the big picture
who cares what anyone thinks about themselves...if most think that they are "smart evolved" people how come this world is such a
indifferent at best but mostly hateful violent place

where people quick with the baseless judgement like they never do anything wrong...just because they feel so they can slander someone's name in a moment, lie, steal, betray, kill on a whim
spiral called most of the people self satisfied smug in a rut and closed minded in the post above...and it was a reason for myquestion...how many people grade themselves and others as such.....obviously you and others do grade others and themselves....
100% scared of living and angry - the qualities you mentioned are by-products and compensations.
again it wasnt my words sea goat it was spiral's.observation... but it's interesting to know that you think that 100%! are scared and angry
i am neither angry or scared

an annoyance is a better word choice here....

to bring it all to astrology, i would again suggest that most of great artists writers musicians must be higher

evolved than most and i would look at the septiles in their charts....

If so, perhaps it is so because of their Intense Focus on A Muse .... They are not Diss-Tracked-ted by the WarLed World? But what makes them that way? Perhaps a long lineage of Intense Focus in "other" lives?
(Personally speaking, I currently B*Leaf that "past lives" are simply info encoded in the DNA Chain of Memory
which the brain treats in the same way as it does IMAGINATION.
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Deborah1
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #292 - on: 09.07.2009 at 20:00 [UT+1] »I owe my husband a debt of gratitude for his investigative skills,
h Rising, in finding out which countries
have the most murders, but lesser guns than the U.S.A. would have per capita.
He also suggested we might like to look at the chart of the winners.....I have two charts for India, both of themperhaps showing the mentality somewhat of the country as it was born or created as the event charts.
Would they show this propensity towards violence? With or without guns being the primary source??
I see that both charts are quite telling in this manner.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders

Showing latest available data. Rank
# 1 India: 37,170
#2
#3
#4

Russia: 28,904
Colombia: 26,539
South Africa: 21,553#5

United States: 16,204#6

Mexico: 13,144#7Venezuela: 8,022

Countries

AmountAccording to the link, in India gun ownership is only 4 per 100 person versus 90 for the US.
note: many people in America do not own a gun, but many own hundreds of them as either collections or for
hunting purposes) so the numbers are skewed this way in America and not necessarily for protection purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership
Yet India has a murder rate which is over double the US. [b]In Russia only 9guns per 100, yet they
surpass the US murder rate by 75%.[/b] Clearly it's not gun ownership that is to blame for high rates ofmurder.
These charts were posted during the Mumbai Terrorist time as charts for India's statehood:(Thanks to whoever posted them originally)on the forum:
There is a major connection to the fixed star "Dubhe" in both charts for violence and anger. 17Leo or 15Leo forthe critical degree.

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IP Loggedrealworld

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #293 - on: 09.07.2009 at 20:42 [UT+1] »Quote from Deborah1 on 09.07.2009 at 20:00 [UT+1]:
I owe my husband a debt of gratitude for his investigative skills,

h Rising, in finding out which countries

have the most murders, but lesser guns than the U.S.A. would have per capita.
He also suggested we might like to look at the chart of the winners.....I have two charts for India, both of themperhaps showing the mentality somewhat of the country as it was born or created as the event charts.
Would they show this propensity towards violence? With or without guns being the primary source??
I see that both charts are quite telling in this manner.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders (scroll down)

Deborah: I did actually point these statistics out, and cite the above website on post #248, in reply to your,(and Lindac7's) previous queries.
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1246374725/240 (scroll down)Yes, it's rather ironic that India, which gave us the word "karma", and bore spiritual leaders such as Gandhi has
the highest "overall" murder rate in the world.
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Virgo Dei
Genetrix

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #294 - on: 09.07.2009 at 21:35 [UT+1] »Member

Dog- I'm just now reading about the death of your father. I'm so sorry. And he was born in Kerrville, Texas! I

love that little town in the Hill Country. I was near there this weekend-- in Leakey, Texas-- on the Frio, River.
May your father rest in peace.

Posts: 4677

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Ed Falis

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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #295 - on: 09.07.2009 at 21:55 [UT+1] »Quote from Deborah1 on 09.07.2009 at 20:00 [UT+1]:
I owe my husband a debt of gratitude for his investigative skills,

h Rising, in finding out which countries

have the most murders, but lesser guns than the U.S.A. would have per capita.
...
Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount# 1 India: 37,170# 2 Russia: 28,904# 3 Colombia: 26,539# 4 South Africa: 21,553# 5 United States: 16,204# 6 Mexico: 13,144# 7 Venezuela: 8,022...

The more interesting data on that page were in the alternate presentation on the per capita murder rates (sincethese countries differ radically in terms of population).
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita . The US waspretty far down in that one, and India was just a bit below the US.
- Ed
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Ed Falis
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #296 - on: 09.07.2009 at 21:57 [UT+1] »Quote from realworld on 09.07.2009 at 20:42 [UT+1]:...
Yes, it's rather ironic that India, which gave us the word "karma", and bore spiritual leaders such as Gandhi has the highest "overall"murder rate in the world.

That page gives the absolute number of murders, not the rate, which is linked off of the same page and is given
in my previous msg.
- Ed
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Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #297 - on: 09.07.2009 at 23:42 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 09.07.2009 at 21:57 [UT+1]:
Quote from realworld on 09.07.2009 at 20:42 [UT+1]:...
Yes, it's rather ironic that India, which gave us the word "karma", and bore spiritual leaders such as Gandhi has the highest"overall" murder rate in the world.

That page gives the absolute number of murders, not the rate, which is linked off of the same page and is given in my previous msg.
- Ed

Thanks for the correction Ed. I should not have used the word "rate".
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solarwind
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Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #298 - on: 09.07.2009 at 23:50 [UT+1] »where is china on that list...

countries like sudan democratic republic of kongo and other nice places likethat....

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solarwind

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #299 - on: 09.07.2009 at 23:55 [UT+1] »Cayce said it much more succinctly I think, and the other, was it Plato? just called them the followers.
the percentage is about 80% (are the sheep) easily read
The minority (more evolved human beings) who think for themselves and are independant from the crowd arebroken down in the remaining 20%(from what I recall, he said the remainder was approx. 15% who work diligently on themselves and therefore
are evolving steadily) and the 5% who have no need to return here again.

good estimate....deb...did you further your study of the features of the " no need to return" charts if there areany.... i think last time joe suggested using vedic system some ideas.... but otherwise we came to conclusion
this information though present isnt in the chart... cayce himself didnt really rely on the chartsfor hisreadings.....
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realworld
Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #300 - on: 10.07.2009 at 01:37 [UT+1] »Getting back to the Nationmaster statistical website, where I've just spent a while toggling around all thecriteria, what strikes me is that trying to get a synthesized idea of what's going on in the world is rather liketrying to synthesize a birth chart from a combination of planets, signs, houses and aspects.
Someone at the site must have already figured out people's frustrations so they have compiled an "interesting
facts" page. This is the one for crime, although there are others for health, economics, education etc:
http://www.nationmaster.com/facts/Crime
When it comes to who's highly evolved or not, shame on Kuwait; they have the highest number of unpaid
diplomatic parking fines.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_unp_dip_par_fin-crime-unpaid-diplomatic-pa rking-fines

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Deborah1

Ex Member

Re: Who is 'highly evolved'?
« Reply #301 - on: 10.07.2009 at 05:16 [UT+1] »Quote from solarwind on 09.07.2009 at 23:55 [UT+1]:
Cayce said it much more succinctly I think, and the other, was it Plato? just called them the followers.
the percentage is about 80% (are the sheep) easily read
The minority (more evolved human beings) who think for themselves and are independant from the crowd are broken down in theremaining 20%(from what I recall, he said the remainder was approx. 15% who work diligently on themselves and therefore are evolving steadily) andthe 5% who have no need to return here again.

good estimate....deb...did you further your study of the features of the " no need to return" charts if there are any.... i think last time joe
suggested using vedic system some ideas.... but otherwise we came to conclusion this information though present isnt in the chart... cayce
himself didnt really rely on the chartsfor his readings.....

Thats very true, he did not.
Actually I don't think we ever did figure out, (Ry Redd got the closest) to figuring out what and how Cayce wasviewing the records of each soul. The Akashic Record and some way the astrological records (which are indeed
part of the Akashic Record) of the soul itself and all it's various lives.
IF you know how to find that thread, perhaps we can copy the url and paste it here for others to study IF they
are interested in it.
Not sure what the name was "No Need to Return?" Loka was the keyword that Ry Redd came up with....but I
don't think the natals can be read well enough to figure out such a conclusion.

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