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Who bothers using Chiron? (Read 1253 times)

Ariel1
MemberWho bothers using Chiron?
« on: 01.07.2013 at 13:08 [UT+1] »I've always been a bit irritated seeing Chiron in my horoscope, since I've never bothered using it, and I don't
know and don't care about it's existance.
What is the value of this planet/asteroid or whatever it is?
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Akvelina Ostergaard

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #1 - on: 01.07.2013 at 15:35 [UT+1] »I use Chiron because of where it is located in my chart - it plays a very central part, conjunct my Moon at theapex of a yod, right in my 1st house.
Its use is in showing where one is 'wounded' and can heal, how one may be able to help heal/teach others (evenbetter than healing/teaching ourselves), and where problems might keep popping up over and over. I've seen
this website use "inescapable wounding" to describe a trait of Chiron, as he is considered the "wounded healer"
in mythology.
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zippyMember

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #2 - on: 01.07.2013 at 15:37 [UT+1] »ME!
Of course you can always choose a chart drawing without...
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Solarstorm

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #3 - on: 01.07.2013 at 17:06 [UT+1] »http://www.melaniereinhart.com/ She wrote 'the' book on Chiron. And I absolutely use Chiron myself!

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SerenaEx Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #4 - on: 01.07.2013 at 17:40 [UT+1] »Just like Akvelina, I am also very much "in touch" with my NmAC. I simply can not ignore it.
Reading about N is always insightful, puts things (and people) in a new perspective.

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Linda Harris

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #5 - on: 01.07.2013 at 17:53 [UT+1] »I don't use it to delineate...but I do notice where it is... and if it is conjunct a personal planet I might make amental note.

Posts: 17033

For me, anything TRUE will be shown several times over in a chart. Remember, astrology is NOT an occult
study. Everything is VERY accessible. Know the planets (in depth) and the meaning of the aspects and you
will get at the truth.
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danielMember

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #6 - on: 01.07.2013 at 18:56 [UT+1] »i am hurt by your tone. Chiron is the most aspect point in my natal.
danielPosts: 1952
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Solarstorm

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #7 - on: 01.07.2013 at 19:02 [UT+1] »Linda Harris, Occult means hidden in plain site. Astrology is certainly occult in that sense. And beyond for me
personally.

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Tyler
Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #8 - on: 01.07.2013 at 20:04 [UT+1] »Chiron? Using it in Nativities in not exactly my first priority right now, but is seems to jump out in a horary
chart pretty often. On more then one occasion it was within a couple degrees of the first or 7th house cusp, ora main significator and most of the questions revolved around breakups, illness, or death. I view it as showing
someone in a emotionally vulnerable state who is "wounded", as someone else mentioned.

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Linda Harris

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #9 - on: 01.07.2013 at 20:41 [UT+1] »"Occult" (as per Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition)
1. to shut off from view or exposure
2. not revealed: secret
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3. not easily aprehended or understood: abstruse, mysterious
5. not manifest or dectable by clinical methods alone
6. matters regarded as involving the action or influence of supernatural or supernormal powers or some secretknowledge of them.
I'm pretty confident that this covers most definitions of the word "occult", and astrology is NONE of them.
Astrology is a language, a science and an art.
Anyone who studies LONG enough can learn it. One doesn't have to have "special powers."
Unless you consider enthusiasm, concentration and determination to learn special powers.
True, not everyone can reach the same adeptness.... but that is true for anything one learns.
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Solarstorm
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #10 - on: 01.07.2013 at 22:47 [UT+1] »From dictionary.com
adjective
1.

c·cult [uh-kuhlt, ok-uhlt] Show IPAof or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers
or agencies.
2.
beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious.
3.
secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated.
4.
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Gender:hidden from view.
5.
a.
not apparent on mere inspection but discoverable by experimentation.
b.
of a nature not understood, as physical qualities.
c.
dealing with such qualities; experimental: occult science.

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Ariondys

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #11 - on: 01.07.2013 at 22:48 [UT+1] »are you trying to outcast Chiron. Him and all his buddies are already outcast. He's there to remind that there
is MORE to a chart that you are NOT seeing. Like Pholus and Nessus, and other centaurs.

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cris_meMember

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #12 - on: 01.07.2013 at 23:22 [UT+1] »could you guys - the ones who said you use Chiron - please elaborate on HOW you use it? I mean... specifically.
concretely.
I've heard and read all about the general stuff - the wounded healer, the would that never heals, etc. but I stillcannot see a practical use to it. I know, I know, my Venus is in Capricorn; I have my limits. so please help me
understand.
so do all transits or natal aspects to Chiron basically function as ... places that hurt when touched? sensitive
points in one's life/psychological make-up that will always hurt?
what's the higher version of this concept, provided that not everybody is a healer. or a teacher. I understandthis energy does its best work when it helps others. but for people who do not have that outlet? I know many
Posts: 2915
Gender:of them... even Saturn gives us opportunities to say something nice about it. and I do not see the point telling
people something completely negative like - and this is where it will always HURT. everytime. period. nevergonna heal.
help?
but please give me personal examples or stories. I've read all the cookbooks I need for now. thank you!

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Matrika Matters

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #13 - on: 02.07.2013 at 02:17 [UT+1] »When I see Chiron return I know transformation of the core issue is possible for the person at that time, if they
access the right resources.

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Ariondys
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #14 - on: 02.07.2013 at 04:36 [UT+1] »a psychiatrist told me I was psychotic when transit N o C
Chiron is really versatile though, you just have to start watching it.
I have noticed repeated instances of drafting
Richard Bach got his famous bestseller book, Jonathon Livingston Seagull selling with a CmN
PS read that, it's really chirotic, really showing off the Chiron-virgo affinity
I've thought Chiron can be really irritating too.
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Gender:Sometimes really out there, like with Uranus
I think it really really depends and what chiron is doing to what
I was born under a perfect Chiron-Uranus contra-parallel, and I practice astrology.
here's something I put together:

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MoiraeMember

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #15 - on: 02.07.2013 at 05:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Ariel1 on 01.07.2013 at 13:08 [UT+1]:
I've always been a bit irritated seeing Chiron in my horoscope, since I've never bothered using it, and I don't know and don't care about
it's existance.
What is the value of this planet/asteroid or whatever it is?

For over 20 years I laughed out loud and pitty-pawed myself that I had no single planet in Air. But this truly

Posts: 2570
Gender:seemed to make no sense, because I've always been the intellectual in the room with the eye-glasses andpunctuation devoted to conversations centered around "how do you feel?" I was mocked by some, mimicked bysome, but have been ever-long linked with family and friends on a long, strong course of intelligent exchanges
about our metaphysical issues. I always thought it was my Cancer Sun with a lot of natal Leos doing theirthing (very social).
Then, in the midst of many other pummelling outer transits, something else tripped me with particular thorns
in the rose garden. It was Chiron, returning to my natal position. My mother and I started writing her
autobiography then. She couldn't endure the personal confrontations with the past she wished to reveal.
Chiron (psychological healing confronted by blockages) and I attempted many routes for her to feel
comfortable in this work (Chiron, the healer) so that I, her independent intellectual daughter would feelsatisfied in our work (Chiron's mutual healing function). This work went on "pause" mode, and remains thisway 2 years later.
I am Chiron in k at the IC. My healing/healed motivations are supported by Saturn's structures and guided by
Uranus' enlightenment (as Chiron orbits in the spaces between these) to sustain what I call the "gypsy"
intelligence I've been both privileged and burdened with. It's my greatest pleasure to share psychologicalexperiences with others in a 4th house, private manner; and at the same time, a great responsibility tounderstand that my own Chiron requires independent thought and action from myself and others to freeourselves from a self-enslavement that is particular to our own charts.
I understand Lainie's earlier post, that other aspects CAN indicate these same initiatives. In my experience
analyzing my own and many other charts in the past few years, I do believe studying Chiron will get you to theblood and guts of certain psychological issues where a cup of tea and a band-aid just don't cut the mustard.
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OMGphoebe
Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #16 - on: 02.07.2013 at 07:39 [UT+1] »Quote from Ariel1 on 01.07.2013 at 13:08 [UT+1]:
I've always been a bit irritated seeing Chiron in my horoscope, since I've never bothered using it, and I don't know and don't care about
it's existance.
What is the value of this planet/asteroid or whatever it is?

Hmmm....if you do not care about its existence, why on earth do you want to know its value? That's a mixed
message, Ariel1 and, you know, it could be that wound of Chiron is confusion. Saying one thing, meaning
another. Not knowing whether you are coming or going, Arthur or Martyr....

The strong pulse of Ambition struck
In every vein I owned;
At the same instant, bleeding broke
A secret, inward wound.
~ Charlotte Bronte

One thing I question deeply about the whole wounded healer hype is that it is a contradiction in terms forpeople who have theambition of achieving "healing". Whatever that means. All I know - for sure - is that no wound heals if you
keep picking at it. I learned that in kindergarten.
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Friesiangal

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #17 - on: 02.07.2013 at 09:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Ariel1 on 01.07.2013 at 13:08 [UT+1]:
I've always been a bit irritated seeing Chiron in my horoscope, since I've never bothered using it, and I don't know and don't care about
it's existance.
What is the value of this planet/asteroid or whatever it is?

Posts: 6820
Gender:Looking at it another way; do you have any physical scars on your body that, using astrological rulerships,
coincide with a planet in harsh aspect to Chiron.......if, as OMG Phoebe mentioned, you are (not) avoiding
looking at its position for a particular reason? Chiron can bring things too close to home.....or their source?
Chiron lies between Saturn and Uranus. Saturn 'puts a lid' on that which an individual cannot....or will not...
accept and handle, through which any situation can become chronic....long lasting... of nature. Uranus is the'Aha' moment of seeing things through an adjusted and alternate perspective. Chiron is the like the foot in thedoor, whereby the door can no longer remained closed (blockages) and allows 'light' to come through.
Similarly, Saturn represents the outer skin, which can be thick, thin, or normal! If situations occur that are notdealt with and 'get under the skin', it means that a tear has occured in Saturn's defence mechanism to keep
things out. The 'tear' (read as a split, although Saturn will hold in the water 'tear'drop as well!) has broken theskin because Saturn cannot make the necessary adjustment 'to see the light'.
What is often seen is that a physical scab and scar shows where 'the skin broke' to form an outer wound and,through association, where the mental and/or emotional spirit (internal wound) broke as well!
Many associate 'split' with Uranus, yet I would argue that it is part of the (negative) expression energy of
Chiron.
Saturn represents an individual's personal boundaries. Not those that restrict but those that should also
protect. When looking towards Chiron, one is looking at a situation through which 'the cause' of Saturn's pain
is found through the confrontation with someone/something that is beyond one's own personal contribution
except in their being unable to deal with it (Saturn). When an individual confronts the situation and IS able tohandle it, 'the breakthrough' (Chiron) rather than 'split' towards self-healing can occur that, from anotherperspective, allows Uranus's spirit of independence (free of the past) to shine through.
If only it could all occur before an individual becomes 'sick' of a situation, there wouldn't be any inner,
let alone outer wounds that leave a scar.

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OMGphoebe
Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #18 - on: 02.07.2013 at 10:19 [UT+1] »Quote from Friesiangal on 02.07.2013 at 09:24 [UT+1]:

Chiron lies between Saturn and Uranus. Saturn 'puts a lid' on that which an individual cannot....or will not... accept and handle, throughwhich any situation can become chronic....long lasting... of nature. Uranus is the 'Aha' moment of seeing things through an adjusted andalternate perspective. Chiron is the like the foot in the door, whereby the door can no longer remained closed (blockages) and allows 'light'
to come through.

The key phrases I use for Saturn are structural integrity and congruency. Very simply: walking your talk. I
often notice the way people language a Chironic lesion with prefacing a statement/observation/opinion with:
I don't think........
That self-inflicted cognitive dissonance, if you like, must drive Mercury around the bend. Twenty-one years
before I explored astrology, I had been introduced to the archetype of Chiron as Mentor within a body ofteaching that was known as the Elements of Man/Four Seasons. I do understand and appreciate the allure thewounded healer symbolism has; it is very hypnotic. The pragmatic ideal is to get the message from the wound
and get out. Over the years I have observed far too many individuals, whether they use astrology or not,misuse the archetype of the wounded healer to keep going over old ground. The only difference between agrave and a rut, is the depth.

What would Saturn do?
“Trying to define yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth. ”—Alan Watts
Metaphor and symbolic language are one of the ways that feeling states can be communicated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRrCYPxD0I

http://www.inominandum.com/blog/advanced-planetary-magic-now-for-sale/No affiliations.

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Akvelina Ostergaard

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #19 - on: 02.07.2013 at 11:40 [UT+1] »Quote from OMGphoebe on 02.07.2013 at 07:39 [UT+1]:

One thing I question deeply about the whole wounded healer hype is that it is a contradiction in terms for people who have theambition of achieving "healing". Whatever that means. All I know - for sure - is that no wound heals if you keep picking at it. I learned
that in kindergarten.

So are you saying people with wounds that won't heal should not even bother trying to achieve healing? That's
absurd. A more concrete example would be someone who got their legs blown off - those are wounds that will
never heal, should they not bother learning to walk again with prosthetics and starting life over and even being
an inspirational speaker?
This thread makes me laugh because of the defensive knee-jerk reactions some people are having against
Chiron. Makes me think their Chironic wounds are showing and people are not dealing with them.
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Sophie Ant
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #20 - on: 02.07.2013 at 12:50 [UT+1] »chiron completes my water grand trine, without it my chart looks all off balance and I am a libra rising so I
include chiron. Not very deep, I know
I haven't seen it have a great influence in transit. In regard to looking
at other's charts, I think that it depends on where it is placed. I think that if an astroid is on an angle orconjunct a planet, it has more influence but not as much as the planets. Over emphasis on the astroids seems
like a mistake to me. They should just add texture to the pattern of the planets.

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Catsratz

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #21 - on: 02.07.2013 at 13:29 [UT+1] »I was enjoying coming along with the study of astrology until I became interested in Chiron and found it in mychart in Sagittarius one of the very few Houses of the twelve where it has no meaning for me. This in a life of 63 years' time.

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Mikko S.
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #22 - on: 02.07.2013 at 15:14 [UT+1] »Several less used kuiper belt objects are bigger than Chiron, and there's something else than just myths written
about them to get started with, I like to include them though I dont use them much here due to "cake crust"notes you might get... not interested in debating whether they're valid or not, because it should be so plain
and simple that they are, with the big if of if you can decipher them. So just saying I think the kuiper belt
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Gender:charade will outrun Chiron in importance once they've been deciphered and more widely used. To me using
anything privately is no problem really, nor experimentally here, but using it in readings, as a new astrologer
who's studied just a year now... that's the problem.
But Chiron, it's in my 11th and has had a great role with friends department, always bending over and catering
my friends so very naturally and like it was nothing. And it's not a good thing, as you're supposed to be more
selfish by nature, because without selfishness there's no unselfishness. I think Chiron teaches us about that
contrast truly.
Sometimes when you dont give much value to a planet, it's a problem in your end with how well you know theplanet, and thus how well you can really relate it to things, how well you can connect it to things in life. I'm
Scorpio and Capricorn influenced heavily, very little Venusian influence, got the planet in my chart and that's
pretty much that. Venus, one planet I've really had a hard time relating to. If you got much emphasis in antiChiron signs like I got in anti-Venus signs, then it might be harder for you to relate to Chiron. I think you could
use this to get a hint of Chiron's ruler sign or degrees.
Quote:
but please give me personal examples or stories. I've read all the cookbooks I need for now. thank you!

Cris me, I've got Chiron in my 11th, near cusp. Always found myself giving in to friends too much, giving in inorder to accommodate a friendship. Whether it's about agreeing with them, being on the same level with theminstead of being more myself, or loaning money, you name it, I gave in while those were situations where you
could just say you disagree or no and still be friends. Give in to serve the cause your house placement dictates,
in my case friends, at the expense of your own way in whatever it is you give up. My way in loaning: dont give afish, instead teach them to fish or do nothing to them. In general... but I broke that rule when it came tofriends. I also was much against drugs in my youth, put it on my Scorpio-Capricorn, but gave in toaccommodate a friendship. Opinions I would had otherwise disagreed with... nodded along in order toaccommodate a friendship. A reoccurring theme of losing your personal way in order to accommodate thehouse placement. But that kind of accommodation is hollow by nature, it is not true you, and I think Chiron
wants us to learn to truly accommodate the house placement instead of loaning stuff from other houses orplanets to it as a make-believe. The teaching is to get rid of make-believes. To accept yourself as you are, andwhen you do that, you might be more qualified to heal others.
As stupid as it may sound, I thought friendship was (partially) about those things too, like drugs or loaning
money or agreeing when you really didn't... and thought those ain't all good things, they can still be a part offriendship, but I attached them to the label of at least certain friendships, a label that was acceptable to have inthe concept of friendship for me. The concept of 11th house for me, it got something there that didn't belong
there. Also possessiveness.. I think that's just my Scorpio speaking in general, but I allowed that too to
become part of that concept for some time, some cases at least.
So in short, I think that the common bad face of Chiron is to not be true to yourself in those situations (houseplacement), and the good face is to be true to yourself in those situations and also allow others be more true
to themselves, in those same situations. I dont know if this is the proper way to interpret Chiron, but I've used
this kind of way to read a few random charts and gotten good feedback so far. The good face of Chiron, as I see
it, is a feeling saying it's okay to be true to yourself, encouraging you. Bad face, you try to fill the concept ofthat house with things that won't fulfill it, good face, you learn to be okay to just find out what you want fromthat concept itself (and forget the additional things).
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zippyMember

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #23 - on: 02.07.2013 at 15:50 [UT+1] »Quote from cris_me on 01.07.2013 at 23:22 [UT+1]:
could you guys - the ones who said you use Chiron - please elaborate on HOW you use it? I mean... specifically. concretely.

Posts: 8143

I haven't really seen T Chiron's effects personally, except for the 1999 Pluto/Chiron conjunction.
Never healing? Yes, I suppose some will never be able to 'teach' their Chiron lesson, but it seems to me thatmost will in some small or larger way. In other words, it may not be a career, but all the hearts we touch as wewalk through life. Or sometimes it may be a career. Say, Moon conjunct Chiron in the 4th may show muchwounding in childhood & mother. That person may become a 'life coach' or therapist, or just may be a good
listener to his/her friends and able to discuss their own 'wounds' openly so that others realize they aren't alone
in their pain, giving them some relief.
I often find Chiron in an element that is lacking the Natal or in a house of that ruling element which is lacking
in the Natal. I also often see a correlation between NN and Chiron, but not always. I do agree with Lanie, or of
the rule of three at least.

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HelenaMarieEx Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #24 - on: 02.07.2013 at 15:55 [UT+1] »For me chiron has been important. I have it in the 3rd house of early education and was bullied relentlessly as achild. It is a wound that has never healed but it has prompted me to try to make a difference in other children's
lives. I volunteer at my daughter's daycare and teach the other 4 year olds how to love, respect, and be kind toeach other. I hope that it will make a difference..
On another note, my husband has just experienced his chiron return in the 12th house and the experience has
been truly eye opening. My husband comes from a family full of secrets and a few painful ones were exposed
during this time..exactly when the transit occurred. He is trying to teach his family that it is OK to reveal those
painful secrets, through that healing can occur.
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Linda Harris

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #25 - on: 02.07.2013 at 16:07 [UT+1] »Solarstorm: you quoted:" or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers
or agencies. "Posts: 17033

ANYone who lumps astrology in with magic or any occult study doesn't know what astrology really is...is not anastrologer nor intellegent enough to know the difference.
I guess anyone can write a dictionary. That doesn't mean it's accurate.
Astrology is NOT an occult science, nor are any of its components a secret.
With hard work, determination and time, anyone can learn astrology. No special power is needed.
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Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #26 - on: 02.07.2013 at 18:14 [UT+1] »i never mind looking at chiron until the year when all my life was destroyed by a hurtful event....and this year ihave had a SR EmN on DSC oC

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Linda Harris

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #27 - on: 02.07.2013 at 18:19 [UT+1] »Not to detract from your example, Sisyphe, I am sure that the transits on your natal chart would haveproduced the same information.
So one should ever do prediction without the transits on the natal, backed up with progressions and SR. They
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should ALL agree.
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ruwhooEx Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #28 - on: 02.07.2013 at 19:09 [UT+1] »Quote from cris_me on 01.07.2013 at 23:22 [UT+1]:
could you guys - the ones who said you use Chiron - please elaborate on HOW you use it? I mean... specifically. concretely.
I've heard and read all about the general stuff - the wounded healer, the would that never heals, etc. but I still cannot see a practical use
to it. I know, I know, my Venus is in Capricorn; I have my limits. so please help me understand.
so do all transits or natal aspects to Chiron basically function as ... places that hurt when touched? sensitive points in one's
life/psychological make-up that will always hurt?

My Chiron is 11th House Capricorn trine my Virgo sun ( mars in Sagittarius MC) I use Chiron very, very often
and believe in the concept thoroughly. We don't always choose our destiny no matter how well we plan. "Making
the best of difficult situations when they arise" is the best message of Chiron. Learning from pain, andchallenges and passing that wisdom on when the need arises. I became a nurse and was friends (11th house)
with some of my patients. It was my honor to hear from others that I was almost valued like a distant family
member. I often fill the role of "mentoring" my friends though I am not often recognized for it. My family would
often give me recognition for my help with their lives, especially my mother.
Being able to overcome problematic business difficulties is helpful with Chiron in Capricorn. However, if you
don't take on challenges in life there will be no struggle to overcome; so you might look to that if you feel orthink that Chiron has no energy in your chart.
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IP LoggedDulce locuraMember

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #29 - on: 02.07.2013 at 19:30 [UT+1] »I have N in c. What you think becomes your reality ?
I understand those who are using N but also those who are against it.
The goal is to heal, right ?
By focusing too much on N, we are increasing our wounds and not decreasing them.
Posts: 1250

Distancing from N can be healing too.

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melekusha
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #30 - on: 02.07.2013 at 20:31 [UT+1] »http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wounding_e.htm

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IP Logged.Becca.

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #31 - on: 02.07.2013 at 21:35 [UT+1] »I’m a bit biased when it comes to considering the use value of this asteroid. Probably because, for one, I havesome f placements in my chart and there’s the f/N correlation.
I don't remember where I read the coining of this term to give them due credit but there's the 'rule of three'that most would have in mind(whether they consciously put this label to it while in the process of delineating ornot). It’s where at the least one thing in a chart is validated by two more, which in turn makes the speculationof what the symbols mean to be concrete and undoubtable.

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Simply saying, You - Your wound is in communication because of a cN, which leads to saying something likethey struggle with reading when the person has either a 'strong' C, 3H, air elements or a sufficient
combination of these to counter that one point made, along with proving themselves to be otherwise than‘wounded’ in matters of communicating is what doesn’t let that sort of isolation statement fully resonate.
It being helpful to look at most of what you can is SO the case when it comes to forecasting and it can beinteresting to see how something repeats in an SR, then in a return chart, then in transits and then inprogressions...It's like the stars are busily putting in that extra effort to ensure you get that message whatever
it may be and are receptive be it good or bad. The perceivable ‘bad’? It ultimately helps us learn and grow I
believe. It’s often a toss up of seeing the glass half empty versus half full. It could be that N’s wounding is oneof those ‘necessary evils’ that isn’t really evil, all depending on how you choose to look at it because you DO
have a choice if you want to be set in a negative state of mind or to locate the resources that can help in
encouraging a positive one.
If nothing is in conjunction with N, it isn’t angular, ‘cetera criteria isn’t met for it to be relevant in yourestimation but an individual still insists that it is, I would think to look at the dispositor and connect the dotsfrom there or figure out what might ‘feel’ like N(Is it I, is it J that they are really feeling). Of course somethings will slip one person's perspective and that’s the great thing about multiple people commenting on achart here - what one doesn't see, the other will according to how their respective mind works OR one's
comment agrees with that of another’s to give that ‘rule of three’ or 'green light/mental sticky checkmarking'effect as I like to call it...
Unless, we're ALL entirely incompetent here, which I doubt that we are.

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melekusha
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #32 - on: 02.07.2013 at 21:47 [UT+1] »oh i have a qwestion....... what is wrong with having wounds?
why perfecting it?
and trying to act like its not there or its not important?

Posts: 2425
Gender:and why the goal is to heal?
nothing ever becomes its original form?
forgive me im not using right words......
i mean im just against the perfiction of the woundless land type of image......
Heal Heal Heal......... feels like a presure but
though.................

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Matrika Matters

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #33 - on: 03.07.2013 at 00:00 [UT+1] »OMGPhoebe Quote:
The only difference between a grave and a rut, is the depth.

Posts: 7405

Nuh.
The difference is awareness and resources. And perceptual filters.

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OMGphoebe
Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #34 - on: 03.07.2013 at 01:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Akvelina Ostergaard on 02.07.2013 at 11:40 [UT+1]:
Quote from OMGphoebe on 02.07.2013 at 07:39 [UT+1]:

One thing I question deeply about the whole wounded healer hype is that it is a contradiction in terms for people who havetheambition of achieving "healing". Whatever that means. All I know - for sure - is that no wound heals if you keep picking at
it. I learned that in kindergarten.

So are you saying people with wounds that won't heal should not even bother trying to achieve healing? That's absurd. A more concrete
example would be someone who got their legs blown off - those are wounds that will never heal, should they not bother learning to walkagain with prosthetics and starting life over and even being an inspirational speaker?
This thread makes me laugh because of the defensive knee-jerk reactions some people are having against Chiron. Makes me think their
Chironic wounds are showing and people are not dealing with them.

I did not say that people not bother to make the attempt to achieve healing. More specifically, a healing. Why
do you assign to the contributions people have made to this thread, the label of defensive knee-jerk reactions?
How ironic you use the example of somebody who has been "cut off at the knees" to reinforce your argument.

Puts me in mind of Oscar Pistorius.
Quote:"He was a perfect role model," said Traum, 72, founder of Achilles International -- a non-profit that encourages disabled people toexercise. "You have a youngster losing his legs and you can say 'some day you can be in the Olympics.'"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eleanor-goldberg/oscar-pistorius-disabled-communit y_b_2761790.html

Let's have a show of hands: Who wants to be a perfect role model?
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OMGphoebe

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #35 - on: 03.07.2013 at 02:50 [UT+1] »Astrologer Erin Sullivan does not mention Chiron in her 2001 book, The Astrology of Family Dynamics andperhaps does notneed to for she has squeezed out all the potentials for wounding in Solar themes, Lunar themes and the
aspects of outer planets. Sullivan's book could be perceived as a healing tool in Chiron's arsenal.
Maybe.
If a native did not know that Moon/Venus (includes lunar aspects with Libra and/or Taurus) lends a mostpowerful receptivity to aggression and that there may be a strong maternal lineage which polarizes in thematernal/feminine dichotomy of the Madonna/Magdalene image of women; that is, sensuality versus sexuality;
maternity versus femininity; expressive, emotionally dominant, with a high level of romantic themes inrelationships - then that native might start fussing over that. Make mountains out of molehills.
On p.10 of the above named book, astrologer Erin Sullivan writes:

Quote:
Transits are just that - moving planets. The planets do not screech to halt when someone is born; however, we do fix the planets in timeand space to create a horoscope for that person.
It must be remembered at all times that a natal horoscopeis a picture of the transits at the time of one's birth.

With this in mind, it becomes apparent that a person is a living, breathing, walking transit, and thus is an emblem of the Zeitgeistinto
which he or she was born. We are all of us moments in time, and in this way we individualize a collective circumstance -we are
the constellation of the mundane world, and thus are born into a very large family.

Does anybody perceive their Chiron placement by sign, house and aspects through the zeitgeist?

It was easy to regard this woman as tragically unaware of her own limitations, with aspirations that surpassed
her ability. ~ Dr Robert Canfield
quote from http://rcanfield.blogspot.com.au/2009/04/susan-boyle-and-human-moral-imagination .html a link hop fromhttp://astrodynamics.net/astrologicalmusings/2009/04/21/susan-boyle-and-the-zeit geist-of-the-chironneptune-conjunction/

Another thing: why does not the asteroid Achilles #588 receive as much attention as Chiron? The average
person on the street could be more familiar with the expression and meaning of Achilles' Heel and its origin,than that of the wounded healer trope of Chiron..

I see this life
Like a swinging vine
Swing my heart across the line
In my faces flashing signs
Seek it out and ye shall findThe old, but I'm not that old
Young, but I'm not that bold
And I don't think the world is soldI'm just doing what we're toldI, feel something so right
But doing the wrong thingI, feel something so wrong
But doing the right thing
I could lie, could lie, could lie
Everything that kills me makes me feel alive~ lyrics Counting Stars
OneRepublic

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Ariondys
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #36 - on: 03.07.2013 at 03:43 [UT+1] »Achillles is an asteroid. Chiron is 1st discovered Centaur. The difference seems to make all the significance.
Plus Chiron seems to be about stuff astrologers can find fascinating. Like crystals and that stuff.
See if you find a horoscope of a crystal store merchant.

Posts: 1836
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OMGphoebe

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #37 - on: 03.07.2013 at 05:38 [UT+1] »If you want to scratch through this thread, I believe it contains the natal chart of two or three merchants who
trade
in crystals.
Happy hunting!
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1316316525
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jentifer
Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #38 - on: 03.07.2013 at 05:41 [UT+1] »Ariel1:Have you ever used the free Color Horoscope here on Astrodienst?
The reason I ask is because it indicates the order of planets which are dominant in your chart; maybe N is theleast dominant so that is why it is not important to you.
Just wondering.
Cheers,Jen
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jentifer

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #39 - on: 03.07.2013 at 05:48 [UT+1] »OMGphoebe:
Thank you for the #588 Achilles; I was not aware of this asteroid.

N is about healing; Achilles is something different although I can't explain it.
Jen
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OMGphoebe
Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #40 - on: 03.07.2013 at 06:21 [UT+1] »Quote from jentifer on 03.07.2013 at 05:48 [UT+1]:
OMGphoebe:
Thank you for the #588 Achilles; I was not aware of this asteroid.

N is about healing; Achilles is something different although I can't explain it.
Jen

The story goes that Chiron did teach Achilles the art of surgery and herbal medicine...
Quote:
Achilles was one of the great Greek heroes of myth and legend. One of many students of Chiron who went on to deeds we talk about eventoday, the stories of his conquests, his leadership and most of all his handsomeness are legion.
read more http://planetwaves.net/pagetwo/next-world-stories/achilles-issues-of-false-confi dence/

Hmm...I wonder if there is some prophylactic symbolism with the Trojans.

What's the time Mr Wolf - the dude who found the first of the Trojan asteroids
http://www.catchersofthelight.com/catchers/post/2012/07/20/Maximilian-Franz-Jose phCornelius-Wolf-History-of-Astrophotograpjy.aspx

Almost forgot, there's a bear in here too - KtB the Declination Lady.
http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=124

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.Becca.

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #41 - on: 03.07.2013 at 16:54 [UT+1] »Quote from melekusha on 02.07.2013 at 21:47 [UT+1]:
oh i have a qwestion....... what is wrong with having wounds?
why perfecting it?
and trying to act like its not there or its not important?
and why the goal is to heal?
nothing ever becomes its original form?
forgive me im not using right words......
i mean im just against the perfiction of the woundless land type of image......
Heal Heal Heal......... feels like a presure but
though.................

Posts: 2007
Gender:I think that,
Wounds hurt, be it psychologically or physically. Often physical pain affects a person psychologically too. Thinkof a person who is typically independent, suffers a physical injury and then has to be helped by others - Itwould be difficult for them to initially accept that help and probably even see having to do that as a ‘bruise’ totheir pride, to their ego.
No one likes to remain in a state of pain as it’s uncomfortable. It’s the getting better part that’s more
anticipated, don’t you think so?
You do see that it's there eventually. Or someone points it out. To get to fixing it, you first have to recognize itneeding to be. It is important in the sense that it brings you down to earth a bit and reminds you that you canhelp yourself just as much as you may do for others and vice versa - finding a balance of give and take.
Well, to not go forward with residual stuff, to feel pain free and confident that you can do things again without
the persistent fear of 'I might get hurt...once again' when it’s a totally different situation that should be lookedat and dealt with as such.
There's not that much pressure if you can see it in a way of no one telling you in an evil voice, 'You heal andyou heal NOW! Or else'. It does take time but it could be your time and at your pace, expectations you set for
yourself. The results are a reward and worth it because It’s like an investment in yourself and your wellbeing.
So I’d like to ask, Why NOT heal?

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Bjorkstrand
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #42 - on: 03.07.2013 at 17:21 [UT+1] »I have Chiron conjunct the sun. There hasn't been ONE book to show a list of this aspect. Not one. I got all the
books. They just get into myths. It is a comet and comets are reckless, I am reckless, a scar on my face shows
it. A skate blade hit near my eye. Off by 1/16". 20 stitches.
It's H value =6.5. Kind of useless i'd say.
Ceres should get more respect.
Jim
Posts: 2889
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Friesiangal

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #43 - on: 03.07.2013 at 19:36 [UT+1] »Quote from Bjorkstrand on 03.07.2013 at 17:21 [UT+1]:
I have Chiron conjunct the sun. ................., a scar on my face shows it. A skate blade hit near my eye . Off by
1/16". 20 stitches.
Jim

Posts: 6820
Gender:Hi Jim,I wrote this in my post #17:".... do you have any physical scars on your body that, using astrological rulerships, coincide with a planet inharsh aspect to Chiron.....?

Chiron can bring things too close to home.....or their source?"
A skate blade is made of steel, ruled by Mars, as is sport.
The face is associated with the first house,
The eyes are associated with the Sun... the right eye of a male.... but also with Aries.
Just out of interest, is there any link between Chiron and/or Aries/Mars/1st house in your chart?

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Bjorkstrand
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #44 - on: 04.07.2013 at 01:16 [UT+1] »Friesiangal
Chiron is about 30 degrees to mars + jupiter.
150 to ascendant.
Good luck on your point.
Just last week while doing some yard work i got cuts on my hand. It never ends.
My guardian angels must wonder about me.
Jim
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Krista ShippMember

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #45 - on: 04.07.2013 at 02:29 [UT+1] »I have N N 27 i- H6
It is o NG 27 f- H3
I have a scar on my upper left thigh..
I am the person who will keep the blind dog- etc.. I thinks thats H6
Posts: 15841
Gender:Also with N o G as mentioned- I am an only child... & I have many 'klunker' cousins

My2 & My ThighKristaBack to top

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PhoenixNoodleSoupRe: Who bothers using Chiron?
Ex Member« Reply #46 - on: 04.07.2013 at 02:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Linda Harris on 02.07.2013 at 16:07 [UT+1]:
Solarstorm: you quoted:" or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies. "ANYone who lumps astrology in with magic or any occult study doesn't know what astrology really is...is not an astrologer nor intellegent
enough to know the difference.
I guess anyone can write a dictionary. That doesn't mean it's accurate.
Astrology is NOT an occult science, nor are any of its components a secret.
With hard work, determination and time, anyone can learn astrology. No special power is needed.
LainieThanks for this!

I agree entirely
PNS

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Lindac7

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #47 - on: 04.07.2013 at 08:37 [UT+1] »I bother using Chiron - mostly because it is conjunct my Aquarius IC and opposed my Leo Uranus conjunct theMC.
That opposition alone explains a WHOLE LOT about my childhood, my path in life, and where I am today including who I am as a person.
I didn't 'discover' Chiron in my astrological learning until more recent years, though, so the other placements
in my chart were all I had to go on for many years. They never really answered all of my questions.
Once I read Barbara Hand Clow's book and Melanie Reinhart's book about Chiron, all the missing information
fell into place. THAT'S how important and prominent Chiron is in my chart (not to mention the fact that it isPosts: 2029
Gender:trine my 4-planet Solar Libra stellium in the 12th, and square my North and South Nodes).
I once had a very knowledgeable and skilled astrologer tell me that despite my 4-planet Solar Libra stellium inthe 12th (also trine my Gemini Moon in the 8th), my Chiron-Uranus opposition smack dab on the MC-IC axis
was far more important, and dominated my entire chart.
If one were to ignore Chiron, one would assume my stellium dominated my chart, since every planet (including
Chiron) forms a major aspect to it.

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Friesiangal
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #48 - on: 04.07.2013 at 09:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Krista Shipp on 04.07.2013 at 02:29 [UT+1]:
I have N
It is

Posts: 6820
Gender:N 27 i- H6o NG 27 f- H3

I have a scar on my upper left thigh..
KristaWow! Thank you.
Another proverbial nail on the head

; Sagittarius rules the thighs.

Saturn is ruler Desc. The Gf 'reality check' in undergoing i characteristics, especially to/from others with'high opinions' other than your own?
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OMGphoebe

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #49 - on: 04.07.2013 at 10:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Bjorkstrand on 04.07.2013 at 01:16 [UT+1]:
Friesiangal
Chiron is about 30 degrees to mars + jupiter.
150 to ascendant.
Good luck on your point.
Just last week while doing some yard work i got cuts on my hand. It never ends.
My guardian angels must wonder about me.
JimYour guardian angels are off on Worker's Compensation for post-Jim stress disorder.
You got something against gloves? You can just wear one......

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melekusha
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #50 - on: 04.07.2013 at 16:50 [UT+1] »Quote from .Becca. on 03.07.2013 at 16:54 [UT+1]:
Quote from melekusha on 02.07.2013 at 21:47 [UT+1]:
oh i have a qwestion....... what is wrong with having wounds?
why perfecting it?
and trying to act like its not there or its not important?

Posts: 2425
Gender:and why the goal is to heal?
nothing ever becomes its original form?
forgive me im not using right words......
i mean im just against the perfiction of the woundless land type of image......
Heal Heal Heal......... feels like a presure but
though.................

I think that,
Wounds hurt, be it psychologically or physically. Often physical pain affects a person psychologically too. Think of a person who is typicallyindependent, suffers a physical injury and then has to be helped by others - It would be difficult for them to initially accept that help andprobably even see having to do that as a ‘bruise’ to their pride, to their ego.
No one likes to remain in a state of pain as it’s uncomfortable. It’s the getting better part that’s more anticipated, don’t you think so?
You do see that it's there eventually. Or someone points it out. To get to fixing it, you first have to recognize it needing to be. It is
important in the sense that it brings you down to earth a bit and reminds you that you can help yourself just as much as you may do forothers and vice versa - finding a balance of give and take.
Well, to not go forward with residual stuff, to feel pain free and confident that you can do things again without the persistent fear of 'I
might get hurt...once again' when it’s a totally different situation that should be looked at and dealt with as such.
There's not that much pressure if you can see it in a way of no one telling you in an evil voice, 'You heal and you heal NOW! Or else'.

It does take time but it could be your time and at your pace, expectations you set for yourself. The results are a reward and worth it
because It’s like an investment in yourself and your wellbeing.
So I’d like to ask, Why NOT heal?

Becca thank you ! makes senseLong Road thought to go through what you have written
and honestly say.... all points are checked and clear
i like the part about..... It Brings you down to EarthBack to top
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OMGphoebe

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #51 - on: 05.07.2013 at 03:49 [UT+1] »Ernest Hemingway had O m N m G i (both retrograde) and he sustained his first serious injury, during WWII
at the age of 18-19, when a trench mortar exploded between his legs, missing the crown jewels.
That coincided with his first nodal return.

It's official!! Chocolate is the devil!!

Quote:On the night of July 8, 1918, Hemingway was struck by an Austrian mortar shell while handing out chocolate to Italian soldiers in adugout. The blow knocked him unconscious and buried him in the earth of the dugout; fragments of shell entered his right foot and hisknee and struck his thighs, scalp and hand. Two Italian soldiers standing between Hemingway and the shell's point of impact were not solucky, however: one was killed instantly and another had both his legs blown off and died soon afterwards. Hemingway's friend Ted
Brumbach, who visited him in the hospital, wrote to Hemingway's parents that: A third Italian was badly wounded and this one Ernest,
after he had regained consciousness, picked up on his back and carried to the first aid dugout. He says he did not remember how he got
there, nor that he carried the man, until the next day, when an Italian officer told him all about it and said that it had been voted to givehim a valor medal for the act. As Brumbach reported, Hemingway was awarded an Italian medal of valor, the Croce de Guerra, for his
service. As he wrote in his own letter home after the incident: Everything is fine and I am very comfortable and one of the best surgeonsin Milan is looking after my wounds.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ernest-hemingway-wounded-on-the-itali an-front

Whoa! Check it out - transit Pholus right on natal Chiron.

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astro_24gw_492_ernest_hemingway_adb_191878_ho.10551.17251.gif

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Ariondys
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #52 - on: 05.07.2013 at 04:01 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 04.07.2013 at 08:37 [UT+1]:...my Chiron-Uranus opposition smack dab on the MC-IC axis was far more important, and dominated my entire chart.

Speaking of Chiron-Uranus oppositions... (I got one of those too, I think a lot of us do, though not smack dab
anywhere special necessarily)
here's another one of these grapical ephemeris thingees, forgive me for not producing a table with preciser data
this time...
Posts: 1836
Gender:the longest running turning point in technology in memory?

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Bjorkstrand

Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #53 - on: 05.07.2013 at 04:17 [UT+1] »No one has proven chiron scientifically. Now if you want to justify astrology on myths, I think you have aproblem. The french astrologer did it right. Mr Gauquelin.
Jim

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Krista ShippMember

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #54 - on: 05.07.2013 at 06:14 [UT+1] »I remembered I have another small scar on my left thighIt's from a dogs tooth- he 'hung on/
I have NEd m Sirius- H12- E rules MC & H10 holds E

F rules H6- holding Chiron
Posts: 15841
Gender:Would this be N related ?
Curious,
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OMGphoebe

Ex Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #55 - on: 05.07.2013 at 07:07 [UT+1] »The Chaldean order of planets gives Mercury as ruler of the 6th house. In the 5Elements of TCM, Mercury
correlates to the element of Water, rules the bladder/kidneys. Didja piss the mutt off, Krista?
FYI the Chaldean order of planet/house rulerships
Saturn - 1st & 8th
Jupiter - 2nd & 9th
Mars - 3rd & 10thSun - 4th & 11th
Venus 5th & 12th
Mercury - 6th
Moon - 7th

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Friesiangal
Member

Re: Who bothers using Chiron?
« Reply #56 - on: 05.07.2013 at 11:12 [UT+1] »[quote]Quote from cris_me on 01.07.2013 at 23:22 [UT+1]:

so do all transits or natal aspects to Chiron basically function as ... places that hurt when touched? sensitive points in one's

life/psychological make-up that will always hurt?
Posts: 6820
Gender:This might occur if/when the individual continues tolive through the Moon perception only?
Quote:
what's the higher version of this concept, provided that not everybody is a healer. or a teacher. I understand this energy
does its best work when it helps others. but for people who do not have that outlet? I know many of them... even Saturn gives us
opportunities to say something nice about it. and I do not see the point telling people something completely negative like - and this iswhere it will always HURT. everytime. period. never gonna heal.

I don't think it is necessary to be such in the 'spiritually gifted' sense that many would care to apply tothemselves.
Anyone, through any walk of life, by their actions, deeds, thoughts and feelings, can have an effect uponanother in a positive as well as negative sense. If the recipient can pick up on the positive side, through which
their own perceptions can undergo a change, this can be considered 'therapeutic' and begin a process of selfheaing of whatever it is 'that hurts.'
To me, Chirons likens to the therapist, mentor, tutor.
Quote:
but please give me personal examples or stories. I've read all the cookbooks I need for now. thank you!

You may not believe me but I have been attempting to answer this part of your post for thebetter part of 3hours!
Events keep occuring that take me away from the computer. I've 'got the message' and have come to theconclusion that there must be a need for you to discover the answer for yourself.
I have to rush off now.....left things much too late.
All a result of tr.AnB,
tr. Cr,Transit EmG.
???????
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