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24.01.2023 at 20:16 [UT]

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I'm starting to think astrology is BS (Read 2346 times)

Neptune'sChildEx Member

I'm starting to think astrology is BS« on: 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1] »We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy to makesomething make sense. I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future. It's all so
generalized. You have t O in the 2nd, so you will have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances
are anyone will have this.
That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's
about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like toexperiment and see if I can predict things.
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #1 - on: 15.05.2009 at 19:37 [UT+1] »Quote:You have t

O in the 2nd, so you will have money issues or issues with values.

This isn't 'astrology' it's just made up seems to me. We all have 'money issues' or 'issues with values' every day,from about the age of 2 perhaps?
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direct Jupitarian
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #2 - on: 15.05.2009 at 19:41 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy to make something make sense.
I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future. It's all so generalized. You have tin the 2nd, so you will
have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances are anyone will have this.

O

That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like to experiment and see if I
can predict things.

Oh sure. I mostly dropped it for a couple of years after having it studied it for many years prior.
I recently got re-interested after said hiatus.
If one is using astrology for events and predictions primarily, i would say they are probably focusing on thewrong use of same.
It's best used as a tool for plumping ones own unconscious. To "know self" is the highest use of astrology,
and then to teach the tools to others to better know self as well.
Sometimes i think that one should study astrology to study their own chart, and once they've got a good
grasp of both, then they should chuck it all, or most of it out the window. Another benefit of the study ofastrology, is that it tends to lead one to the awareness of connectedness of all things.
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IP LoggedNatasha771

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #3 - on: 15.05.2009 at 19:47 [UT+1] »Who knows if it is indeed true? What I do know though is that astrology has made me a more spiritual, loving,
accepting person and it has enhanced my feeling of oneness. The archetypes and psychological attributes can
explain those of all of humanity and that alone is fascinating.
I am also addicted to those A-HA moments where i see a strong correlation (after the fact). That's what keeps
me coming back for more

Posts: 914
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #4 - on: 15.05.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 15.05.2009 at 19:37 [UT+1]:
Quote:You have t

O in the 2nd, so you will have money issues or issues with values.

This isn't 'astrology' it's just made up seems to me. We all have 'money issues' or 'issues with values' every day, from about the age of 2
perhaps?

Exactly my point, but this is how astrology is practiced. What is astrology to you, then?
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #5 - on: 15.05.2009 at 19:53 [UT+1] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 15.05.2009 at 19:41 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy to make something
make sense. I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future. It's all so generalized. You havetin the 2nd, so you will have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances are anyone will have this.

O

That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like toexperiment and see if I can predict things.

Oh sure. I mostly dropped it for a couple of years after having it studied it for many years prior.
I recently got re-interested after said hiatus.
If one is using astrology for events and predictions primarily, i would say they are probably focusing on the wrong use of same.
It's best used as a tool for plumping ones own unconscious. To "know self" is the highest use of astrology, and then to teach the tools toothers to better know self as well.
Sometimes i think that one should study astrology to study their own chart, and once they've got a good grasp of both, then they shouldchuck it all, or most of it out the window. Another benefit of the study of astrology, is that it tends to lead one to the awareness ofconnectedness of all things.

I also leave and return. Usually because I end up meeting someone who is into it and discusses it with me, so I
return again.
I'm thinking it's best to just chuck it also.
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #6 - on: 15.05.2009 at 19:57 [UT+1] »Quote from CancerLadie on 15.05.2009 at 19:47 [UT+1]:
Who knows if it is indeed true? What I do know though is that astrology has made me a more spiritual, loving, accepting person and it hasenhanced my feeling of oneness. The archetypes and psychological attributes can explain those of all of humanity and that alone isfascinating.
I am also addicted to those A-HA moments where i see a strong correlation (after the fact). That's what keeps me coming back for more

It has not made me any of those things that it's made you. That's pretty cool. For me, it's just entertainment. I
don't think it could make me change at all. I only change through experiences.
I like those a-ha moments too! It almost makes me believe, but not quite. I guess astrology is like religion, inthat some people believe it while others don't and it can never be proven right or wrong.
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*EarthMonkey*

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #7 - on: 15.05.2009 at 19:58 [UT+1] »Neptune'schild- maybe you're expecting too much from astrology.....sounds like what you want is a crystal ball

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direct Jupitarian
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #8 - on: 15.05.2009 at 20:01 [UT+1] »In any case, why not go with your deeper intuition re: this, or any issue?
Sometimes what was good for us in the past, is not so good for us now and vice versa.

Sometimes we comeback to things for deeper reasons.

More personally, i came back to astrology because of personal interest yes, but also because i feel i'm called toteach people the general principles and tools necessary in order for them to better read their own charts.
I doubt i will ever be a "practicing astrologer" again, in the sense of doing full charts for others. There may
be times when i am nudged to do a chart or go into more personal delineation for another, and i'm open tothat, but its certainly not meant to be my vocation in the counseling sense.
I think one had better make sure that they are very, very, very intune and balanced before they make it their
vocation or even consistent hobby.
Of course, most astrologers don't like hearing the above. Tends to put them on the defense and get theirshadow all stirred up in a huffy puff. Oh well. We generally only get really upset by what another said, when it
contains some self truth for us.
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #9 - on: 15.05.2009 at 20:04 [UT+1] »Quote from EarthMonkey7 on 15.05.2009 at 19:58 [UT+1]:
Neptune'schild- maybe you're expecting too much from astrology.....sounds like what you want is a crystal ball

Isn't that what astrology is supposed to be? We are supposed to be able to tell what the characteristics of aperson are and the arc of their life via their chart and transits. If not, what is the point?
DJyeah. You're right.
I could never be an astrologer, because people take what you say too seriously and I wouldn't want that
responsibility.
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EarthandAir
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #10 - on: 15.05.2009 at 20:29 [UT+1] »I've been assessing this lately. I've been interested in astrology for many years and I always wanted to study it
when I was young, but I never had access to the right teachers or materials back in the day pre-internet. But
when I found this forum I really dove in.
Mostly my results are unimpressive. Pluto is supposed to be on my ascendant -- I can tell you what I've been

Posts: 800

thinking about and someone could say these things are "plutonian" but I generally think a lot of thoughts likethis. I'm convinced I married the wrong guy ( remarried, actually) but the astrology says we're really wellmatched. Progressed venus is supposed to be on my MC, meaning great career things should happen -nothing. 'One thing that really irritates me is that I have saturn in the second house. Basically what every astrology sitehas said is that I will never have any money. It's fine to say that to someone if it isn't you, but after a while it'sannoying. What do you mean -- *never*? *Never*???? I have money in the bank right now, does this notcount? I just started my own business, should I resolve that it will fail because of my birthchart?
I have Saturn retrograde, which is supposed to mean that my father was absent from my life. Well, he was -he died. But a retrograde condition for Saturn is common -- are we to suppose that everyone born with aretrograde Saturn had a "missing father"? That's a lot of people.
I have been debating about whether to look into tertiary progressions to see if there are short-term real resultsfrom those types of transits. Mostly I don't think I'm much of a Libra, very much of a Capricorn ( my risingsign), *too* much of a Scorpio. I especially hate this idea: if you don't have lots of Gemini planets, you won't
ever be a successful writer, and other limiting concepts like that.
I dunno, it may be that you just outgrow needing to be told your destiny, and instead want to decide it for
yourself.

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Achernar

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #11 - on: 15.05.2009 at 20:36 [UT+1] »One of the joys of astrology is that it is a participatory experience. It really is a case of the personal make-upof the astrologer affecting the outcome of the reading, (or at least making allowance for his/her own
placements if sseking objectivity when reading a chart).
If astrology seems not to work, it may be the case that a set of generally accepted astrological "rules" works forsome astrologers and not for others. In that case one is always free to change the rules - use those that give
you the best results!
Posts: 778
Gender:I think I would be expecting a lot, if I expected one set of astrological techniques to work for everyone, and I
tend to be an optimist.
Best wishes
Achernar

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Charlie Charles

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

2nd« Reply #12 - on: 15.05.2009 at 20:47 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 15.05.2009 at 19:37 [UT+1]:
Quote:You have t

O in the 2nd, so you will have money issues or issues with values.

This isn't 'astrology' it's just made up seems to me. We all have 'money issues' or 'issues with values' every day, fromabout the age of 2 perhaps?
Exactly my point, but this is how astrology is practiced. What is astrology to you, then?

Astrology isn't regulated so anyone can practice it 'legally'!
Astrology for me is a perceived phenomena that may be real (to some extent).
My advice is study psychology, philosophy, anthropology, astro (archaeology), astronomy, literature, history
physics, mathematics........... for 10 yrs and then read some serious astrology books and see if it resonates withyou. If someone says this about Uranus in the 2nd they are an astrologer in the way an 'agony aunt' is a depth
psychologist.
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dog8818

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #13 - on: 15.05.2009 at 20:57 [UT+1] »Quote from EarthandAir on 15.05.2009 at 20:29 [UT+1]:...
Mostly my results are unimpressive. Pluto is supposed to be on my ascendant -- I can tell you what I've been thinking about and someone
could say these things are "plutonian" but I generally think a lot of thoughts like this. I'm convinced I married the wrong guy ( remarried,
actually) but the astrology says we're really well matched. Progressed venus is supposed to be on my MC, meaning great career things
should happen -- nothing. 'One thing that really irritates me is that I have saturn in the second house. Basically what every astrology site has said is that I will never
have any money. It's fine to say that to someone if it isn't you, but after a while it's annoying. What do you mean -- *never*?
*Never*???? I have money in the bank right now, does this not count? I just started my own business, should I resolve that it will failbecause of my birthchart?

Posts: 2645
Gender:it really gets my panties in a bunch when people say stuff like this. I have never ever read any astrology sitethat says Saturn in 2nd means you will ***never*** have any money. Why are you exaggerating this? It is
EXACTLY Saturn in your 2nd that is making you create a defense around your material means, giving you"permission" to think as negatively as possible. Saturn in the 2nd means you will either fall victim to thatmindset, or grow strong in trying to build your material resources. You can lie down and die in your pathetic
misery of woe is me, we can all do that with our Saturn placement, or we can become determined to growstrong.
Read Liz Greene's book on Saturn. Search out the positive manifestations of 2nd house Saturn. Starting yourown business is a great idea, but the self fulfilling prophecies you are spewing will happily cause you to failmiserably, thus fulfilling your own self-proclaimed destiny.
And those who look for a sure-fire prediction of what astrology will bring when, for instance, progressed venus
hits the MC, are lazy astrologers who don't care to learn more about the art. Progressions have NO MEANING
unless there are aspects in the natal chart to support them. But I can tell you, p. Venus will make you reallylazy about your career, expecting someone to hand you something. Ring true?
Meh.

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Basanti

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #14 - on: 15.05.2009 at 20:59 [UT+1] »Astrology is something you participate in, a process or watching with an open mind to learn directly from yourown experience. You are fixated on an outcome which most people who do not have a disposition to seek
deeper answers have. You approach it superficial. There are many who study astrology deeply who are able tokeep a circumspect eye, be discerning without having 'blind belief' where astrology has been enriching. I am
Posts: 2872
Gender:one of those.
When you are ready to dive deep within and go deeper, astrology will have much to offer, until then it won't
have much for you.
Vedic astrology is more into 'predictive' events so you might want to hire Chakrapani Ullal who is "on" 95
percent of his predictive readins. World renouned astrologer.
You get what you put into it, so If you skim nothing will satisfy you.

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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #15 - on: 15.05.2009 at 21:17 [UT+1] »Quote:
Vedic astrology is more into 'predictive' events so you might want to hire Chakrapani Ullal who is "on" 95 percent of his predictive readins.
World renouned astrologer.

Would this be 5% if he submitted his 'predictions' to forensic statistical analysis?
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IP LoggedChris K
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #16 - on: 15.05.2009 at 22:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy to make something make sense.
I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future. It's all so generalized. You have t
have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances are anyone will have this.

O in the 2nd, so you will

That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like to experiment and see if I
can predict things.

You raise a good point. I remember when I was wondering about astrology, too. When I started in western
astrology, I was attracted to the promise of it, but a lot of it was so general and mostly psychological, I knewthat there were logical holes in it big enough to drive a truck through. I wasn't really into new age
consciousness expansion anyway, so I started to look around for a more predictive outcomes oriented astrology.
That's when I stumbled in Vedic /Hindu astrology. I could have just as easily taken up classical or medieval
astrology since it also focuses on events rather than psychological states.
So I would encourage you to check out some of those other branches of astrology before throwing in the towel
or just treating it like entertainment. Skyscript.co.uk is a very good site dedicated to traditional astrology.
Lots of good Vedic sites out there too that lay out the basics of that system. A good starting Vedic site iswww.yournetastrologer.com. It's not as difficult as you might think to learn the basics.

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Quinn

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #17 - on: 15.05.2009 at 22:41 [UT+1] »all sounds like classic I stuff to me...rose tinted glasses fall off and the disillusionment sets in,were you looking for a saviour neptune's child?
the chinese astrologers also focus on events and may be worth considering,personally i'd look at your chart and
see what style would personally suit you,earthandair....writing is also shown by f and C in the the 3,6,9th houses as well as aspects to C itself
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Tony the Tiger
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #18 - on: 15.05.2009 at 23:11 [UT+1] »I have never been convinced more about astrology's value and accuracy. I don't post here that much, because I
would never have the time to get itno the detail that would suffice for each topic here. There was an aspect on
April 15 that was significant and it impacted an important area of my chart, but there were also other

Posts: 226
Gender:indicators. Not only that, I felt vibrations of these aspects and knew something important would haappen, but
not quite what. I was informed I would be laid off; something totally out of the blue and unpredictable as far as
my job. I can continue with hundreds of examples.

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EarthandAir

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #19 - on: 16.05.2009 at 01:08 [UT+1] »Quote from dog8818 on 15.05.2009 at 20:57 [UT+1]:

it really gets my panties in a bunch when people say stuff like this. I have never ever read any astrology site that says Saturn in 2ndmeans you will ***never*** have any money. Why are you exaggerating this? It is EXACTLY Saturn in your 2nd that is making you createa defense around your material means, giving you "permission" to think as negatively as possible. Saturn in the 2nd means you will either
fall victim to that mindset, or grow strong in trying to build your material resources. You can lie down and die in your pathetic misery of
woe is me, we can all do that with our Saturn placement, or we can become determined to grow strong.

Posts: 800

Read Liz Greene's book on Saturn. Search out the positive manifestations of 2nd house Saturn. Starting your own business is a great idea,
but the self fulfilling prophecies you are spewing will happily cause you to fail miserably, thus fulfilling your own self-proclaimed destiny.
And those who look for a sure-fire prediction of what astrology will bring when, for instance, progressed venus hits the MC, are lazy
astrologers who don't care to learn more about the art. Progressions have NO MEANING unless there are aspects in the natal chart tosupport them. But I can tell you, p. Venus will make you really lazy about your career, expecting someone to hand you something. Ring
true?
Meh.

. Actually if I had never heard about Saturn in the second house there would be nothing for me to react to I really had no negative feelings about money, never examined it until I read a lot of astrology about it. So thepoint is if it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, it's somebody else's. As is some internet chick's intonation that "mysaturn" is "creating a negative mindset" when in fact it is my reading some crap on the internet *about* mysaturn that would create these ideas, and not me. Saturn and money are connected by astrological tradition, I
had nothing to do with it.
p. venus didn't make me do anything, because planets don't cause behavior. p venus didn't 'make me lazy'.
. In fact, your whole post above pretty much that only highly evolved people who've worked through their own
negativity and projection should be allowed to practice astrology. Even if you were a qualified counselor andhad any idea what you were saying, I'd still expect you to reply with something more productive.

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Ed Falis

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Ex Member« Reply #20 - on: 16.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1] »Interesting though. My daughter (with Sa right on the second cusp), whose chart I've never read to her, is very
sensitive about livelihood issues. I don't think she picked that up by osmosis from me. But it's also not thesame thing as never having money. She's been quite lucky in the financial support arena (and not just from
me).
- Ed
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BasantiMember

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #21 - on: 16.05.2009 at 01:59 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 15.05.2009 at 21:17 [UT+1]:
Quote:
Vedic astrology is more into 'predictive' events so you might want to hire Chakrapani Ullal who is "on" 95 percent of his
predictive readins. World renouned astrologer.

Posts: 2872
Gender:Would this be 5% if he submitted his 'predictions' to forensic statistical analysis?

I have no idea youer point. However, most of my friends who went said he was uncanny and right on exact.
I'm waiting for his predictions for this year to play out and so far they are. My ex is a famous author of tantra
and his friend Robert Svoboda who has looked at my chart also refer people to him for his accuracy. People
who's lives center around tantra and yoga who are famous authors totallt respect his work and I do to. Thereis one person I know who said he was totally off, that's it.
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #22 - on: 16.05.2009 at 01:59 [UT+1] »Quote from Sun Kitty on 15.05.2009 at 20:59 [UT+1]:
Astrology is something you participate in, a process or watching with an open mind to learn directly from your own experience. You are
fixated on an outcome which most people who do not have a disposition to seek deeper answers have. You approach it superficial. There
are many who study astrology deeply who are able to keep a circumspect eye, be discerning without having 'blind belief' where astrology
has been enriching. I am one of those.
When you are ready to dive deep within and go deeper, astrology will have much to offer, until then it won't have much for you.
Vedic astrology is more into 'predictive' events so you might want to hire Chakrapani Ullal who is "on" 95 percent of his predictive readins.
World renouned astrologer.
You get what you put into it, so If you skim nothing will satisfy you.

I didn't skim. I've been studying astrology in depth for many years. I am just wondering if it all isn't made towork because we already have the answers - without astrology. I definitely did not have a "blind belief" I don't
have a blind belief in anything. I'm very skeptical. I'm also not superficial. I probe a subject to death, trying tofind out what makes it tick, and does it work? I'm just not convinced astrology works. We would have to take aperson's chart who we know nothing about and do an in depth analysis with absolutely no prompting fromthem whatsoever. If it works, we'd come up with the right conclusions about the major events of their life andtheir basic personality. I've never seen this happen when it wasn't cued AND when it wasn't so generalized thatit could fit 90% of people.
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #23 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:00 [UT+1] »Quote from EarthandAir on 15.05.2009 at 20:29 [UT+1]:
I've been assessing this lately. I've been interested in astrology for many years and I always wanted to study it when I was young, but I
never had access to the right teachers or materials back in the day pre-internet. But when I found this forum I really dove in.
Mostly my results are unimpressive. Pluto is supposed to be on my ascendant -- I can tell you what I've been thinking about and someone
could say these things are "plutonian" but I generally think a lot of thoughts like this. I'm convinced I married the wrong guy ( remarried,
actually) but the astrology says we're really well matched. Progressed venus is supposed to be on my MC, meaning great career things
should happen -- nothing. 'One thing that really irritates me is that I have saturn in the second house. Basically what every astrology site has said is that I will never
have any money. It's fine to say that to someone if it isn't you, but after a while it's annoying. What do you mean -- *never*?
*Never*???? I have money in the bank right now, does this not count? I just started my own business, should I resolve that it will failbecause of my birthchart?
I have Saturn retrograde, which is supposed to mean that my father was absent from my life. Well, he was -- he died. But a retrogradecondition for Saturn is common -- are we to suppose that everyone born with a retrograde Saturn had a "missing father"? That's a lot of
people.
I have been debating about whether to look into tertiary progressions to see if there are short-term real results from those types oftransits. Mostly I don't think I'm much of a Libra, very much of a Capricorn ( my rising sign), *too* much of a Scorpio. I especially hate
this idea: if you don't have lots of Gemini planets, you won't ever be a successful writer, and other limiting concepts like that.
I dunno, it may be that you just outgrow needing to be told your destiny, and instead want to decide it for yourself.

I hate that cookbook stuff too.
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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Neptune'sChildEx Member« Reply #24 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:04 [UT+1] »Quote from Achernar on 15.05.2009 at 20:36 [UT+1]:
One of the joys of astrology is that it is a participatory experience. It really is a case of the personal make-up of the astrologer affecting
the outcome of the reading, (or at least making allowance for his/her own placements if sseking objectivity when reading a chart).
If astrology seems not to work, it may be the case that a set of generally accepted astrological "rules" works for some astrologers and notfor others. In that case one is always free to change the rules - use those that give you the best results!
I think I would be expecting a lot, if I expected one set of astrological techniques to work for everyone, and I tend to be an optimist.
Best wishes
Achernar

It is fun. I love seeing if it works. I like building a theory and then seeing if it pans out. I like reading about thedifferent transits, placements etc. I love it when I find a new type of chart to explore. But I've never really
believed in it. Sort of, but not quite. I was never convinced completely. But I don't deny it's fun. I also don't
think others should think the way I do about it. I', just wondering if I am the only one and also, it's like a final
view for me on it.
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #25 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Sun Kitty on 16.05.2009 at 01:59 [UT+1]:

I have no idea youer point. However, most of my friends who went said he was uncanny and right on exact. I'm waiting for his predictions
for this year to play out and so far they are. My ex is a famous author of tantra and his friend Robert Svoboda who has looked at mychart also refer people to him for his accuracy. People who's lives center around tantra and yoga who are famous authors totallt respect
his work and I do to. There is one person I know who said he was totally off, that's it.

It's quite a simple point.
'Don't believe the hype'.

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Neptune's StormEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #26 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:07 [UT+1] »I gace up on astrology for one day when I realised my tropical chart simply didn't describe me, then like a rayof hope from heaven I was introduced to the sidereal zodiac a few years ago (by forum member Debs actually)
and astrology fully made sense to me then. In my experience, if you don't believe your own chart fits you, youwill never truly be willing to believe in astrology, you won't be willing to make that leap of faith.
So why not try looking at your sidereal chart, it fully restored my faith in astrology and then some.
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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Neptune'sChildEx Member« Reply #27 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:08 [UT+1] »Quote from Chris K on 15.05.2009 at 22:05 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy to make something
make sense. I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future. It's all so generalized. You havet

O in the 2nd, so you will have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances are anyone will have this.

That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like toexperiment and see if I can predict things.

You raise a good point. I remember when I was wondering about astrology, too. When I started in western astrology, I was attracted tothe promise of it, but a lot of it was so general and mostly psychological, I knew that there were logical holes in it big enough to drive atruck through. I wasn't really into new age consciousness expansion anyway, so I started to look around for a more predictive outcomesoriented astrology. That's when I stumbled in Vedic /Hindu astrology. I could have just as easily taken up classical or medieval astrology
since it also focuses on events rather than psychological states.
So I would encourage you to check out some of those other branches of astrology before throwing in the towel or just treating it likeentertainment. Skyscript.co.uk is a very good site dedicated to traditional astrology. Lots of good Vedic sites out there too that lay out thebasics of that system. A good starting Vedic site is www.yournetastrologer.com. It's not as difficult as you might think to learn thebasics.

Thanks. I will look into vedic. If I recall, it's very doom and gloom, though. Is that true or was that justsomething I came across by reading only a brief snippet of it?
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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #28 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:11 [UT+1] »Quote from Quinn on 15.05.2009 at 22:41 [UT+1]:
all sounds like classic I stuff to me...rose tinted glasses fall off and the disillusionment sets in,were you looking for a saviour neptune's child?
the chinese astrologers also focus on events and may be worth considering,personally i'd look at your chart and see what style would
personally suit you,earthandair....writing is also shown by

f and C in the the 3,6,9th houses as well as aspects toC itself

It's not I. I've always felt this way, except I was weighing the evidence before I made my final conclusion. Why
would I be looking for a savior in astrology? I don't even know how that would happen. I'm the only savior I
know.
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #29 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 16.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Interesting though. My daughter (with Sa right on the second cusp), whose chart I've never read to her, is very sensitive about livelihood
issues. I don't think she picked that up by osmosis from me. But it's also not the same thing as never having money. She's been quite
lucky in the financial support arena (and not just from me).
- Ed

Saturn here might generate a strong sense of doubt about her 'resources', i.e her capacity to generate or findfinancial/physical security. Not that I'd suggest you confronted her with this................a monthly allowance
could be a good idea, or reduce it marginally over a period of time?
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #30 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune's Storm on 16.05.2009 at 02:07 [UT+1]:
I gace up on astrology for one day when I realised my tropical chart simply didn't describe me, then like a ray of hope from heaven I was
introduced to the sidereal zodiac a few years ago (by forum member Debs actually) and astrology fully made sense to me then. In my
experience, if you don't believe your own chart fits you, you will never truly be willing to believe in astrology, you won't be willing to
make that leap of faith.
So why not try looking at your sidereal chart, it fully restored my faith in astrology and then some.

This is exactly my point. You're making it fit. If it's true, you shouldn't have to go to another system.
I've seen my vedic. It all kind of fits because it's all so easy to make fit.
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Neptune's StormEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #31 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:19 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:13 [UT+1]:
This is exactly my point. You're making it fit. If it's true, you shouldn't have to go to another system.
I've seen my vedic. It all kind of fits because it's all so easy to make fit.

I wouldn't say thats true, the person portrayed in a sidereal chart can often be the complete reverse of theperson depicted in a chart using the tropical.
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #32 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:20 [UT+1] »But how is that even possible?

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Syzygy

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #33 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:23 [UT+1] »Neptune's Child, I feel exactly the way you do, and I've been doing this blindfold since I was about 12.
your position makes total sense to me.
Or:"I can't believe that!" said Alice.
"Can't you?" the queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again, draw a long breath, and shut your eyes."
Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said. "One can't believe impossible things.""I dare say you haven't had much practice," said the queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half anhour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
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Neptune's StormEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #34 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:25 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:20 [UT+1]:
But how is that even possible?

Because in most cases the modality and polarity of the planetary placements is completely reversed/switched.
That makes a staggering difference.
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #35 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:26 [UT+1] »Really, Syzygy?

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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #36 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:30 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune's Storm on 16.05.2009 at 02:25 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:20 [UT+1]:
But how is that even possible?

Because in most cases the modality and polarity of the planetary placements is completely reversed/switched. That makes a staggering
difference.

Right, I know that. But they should either both be right or neither can be right. Either astrology as whole works
or it doesn't. The sidereal can show another aspect to the person, but it can't be the only "right" chart orsystem that makes sense. It's too arbitrary, which is my whole problem with astrology right now.
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Neptune's StormEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #37 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune's Storm on 16.05.2009 at 02:25 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:20 [UT+1]:
But how is that even possible?

Because in most cases the modality and polarity of the planetary placements is completely reversed/switched. That makes
a staggering difference.
Right, I know that. But they should either both be right or neither can be right. Either astrology as whole works or it doesn't. The sidereal
can show another aspect to the person, but it can't be the only "right" chart or system that makes sense. It's too arbitrary, which is mywhole problem with astrology right now.

Is your sidereal Sun sign Capricorn?
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #38 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:37 [UT+1] »yes, why?

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Neptune's StormEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #39 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:43 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:37 [UT+1]:
yes, why?

Just from having remembered information you've posted previously, I seemed to remember you listing yourSun as in tropical Aquarius. Plus you're a lawyer right? Capricorn represents the rule of law, theimplementation of law etc (along with Libra). Just instantly the Sun in sidereal Capricorn seems to alreadypaint a very accurate portrayal of your solar path and I haven't even seen your chart.
The nature of Capricorn is also to very rarely endorse something, be it a belief system, philosophy or gadget
until its been thoroughly tested, doubt and pessimism are the tools Capricorn regularly applies to thoughtsystems to test their validity and clearly this is your approach to astrology.
I'm just saying in my experience the portrait painted by someone's sidereal chart very quickly paints an
accurate portrayal of their lives, far faster than the tropical. Whether you deny astrology has any validity
outright would I think have more to do with the Capricorn belief that we are all in ownership of our own
destiny.
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Neptune'sChildEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #40 - on: 16.05.2009 at 02:54 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune's Storm on 16.05.2009 at 02:43 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:37 [UT+1]:
yes, why?

Just from having remembered information you've posted previously, I seemed to remember you listing your Sun as in tropical Aquarius.
Plus you're a lawyer right? Capricorn represents the rule of law, the implementation of law etc (along with Libra). Just instantly the Sun insidereal Capricorn seems to already paint a very accurate portrayal of your solar path and I haven't even seen your chart.
The nature of Capricorn is also to very rarely endorse something, be it a belief system, philosophy or gadget until its been thoroughly
tested, doubt and pessimism are the tools Capricorn regularly applies to thought systems to test their validity and clearly this is yourapproach to astrology.
I'm just saying in my experience the portrait painted by someone's sidereal chart very quickly paints an accurate portrayal of their lives,
far faster than the tropical. Whether you deny astrology has any validity outright would I think have more to do with the Capricorn belief
that we are all in ownership of our own destiny.

I'm not a lawyer. I just always wanted to go to law school.

I toy with the idea, but never actually do it.

My mercury is in j, in the 9th house and I have planets in the 7th. These would both account for the lawyer
dream, tropically. I have Gm AC and C in j, pluse A in 10th which would also explain the j, tropically. But
this isn't really about me. I never said I didn't id with my chart. I just think everything is too generalized andmade to fit what's going on.
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Ed Falis

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #41 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 16.05.2009 at 02:13 [UT+1]:
Quote from Ed Falis on 16.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Interesting though. My daughter (with Sa right on the second cusp), whose chart I've never read to her, is very sensitive
about livelihood issues. I don't think she picked that up by osmosis from me. But it's also not the same thing as never
having money. She's been quite lucky in the financial support arena (and not just from me).
- Ed

Saturn here might generate a strong sense of doubt about her 'resources', i.e her capacity to generate or find financial/physical security.
Not that I'd suggest you confronted her with this................a monthly allowance could be a good idea, or reduce it marginally over a
period of time?

She doesn't get any kind of allowance (she's 25), but your observation about the sense of doubt is right on it.
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IP LoggedNeptune's StormEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #42 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:07 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:54 [UT+1]:
I'm not a lawyer. I just always wanted to go to law school.

I toy with the idea, but never actually do it.

j, in the 9th house and I have planets in the 7th. These would both account for the lawyer dream, tropically. I have Gm
C in j, pluse A in 10th which would also explain the j, tropically. But this isn't really about me. I never said I didn't id withMy mercury is in
AC andmy chart. I just think everything is too generalized and made to fit what's going on.

The statement "astrology is too generalized" can be turned on its head by observing that humanity may
actually not be that greatly individualized.
I think this thread has something to do with you. Surely you can see how with such a Saturnian chart thiswould induce a fair degree of doubt and pessimism, the likes of which you're displaying here?
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #43 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:31 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 16.05.2009 at 03:00 [UT+1]:

She doesn't get any kind of allowance (she's 25), but your observation about the sense of doubt is right on it.

I was using her as a tool rather than using her, but yes 'sense of doubt' is a good mnemonic for the 'great
malefic'.

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EarthandAir
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #44 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 16.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Interesting though. My daughter (with Sa right on the second cusp), whose chart I've never read to her, is very sensitive about livelihood
issues. I don't think she picked that up by osmosis from me. But it's also not the same thing as never having money. She's been quite
lucky in the financial support arena (and not just from me).
- Ed

Posts: 800

It would have to be a person like that, whose attitudes are tested before they hear anything about theirastrological financial destiny. Otherwise it's just the power of suggestion -- which can be used detrimentally by
the wrong type of astrologer. Not to mention a native who misunderstands the function of what they're
hearing.

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truegem620

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #45 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy to make something make sense.
I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future. It's all so generalized. You have t

O in the 2nd, so you will

have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances are anyone will have this.
That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like to experiment and see if I

Posts: 4466
Gender:can predict things.

You should adjust your title to state "I'm starting to think predictive astrology is BS", IMHO. Your title ismisleading.
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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BSCharlie Charles
2nd« Reply #46 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:36 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote:
I think this thread has something to do with you. Surely you can see how with such a Saturnian chart this would induce a fair degreeof doubt and pessimism, the likes of which you're displaying here

I predict the next time someone expresses a 'sense of doubt' about their tropical mandela (not that they haveusually looked into it) you will leap in with your sidereal (creative) sunsignisms and fit the cyber persona
perfectly to it? -and I don't even dabble with the murky predictive paradigm usually but this is a 100%
methinks................
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lynnifer

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #47 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:37 [UT+1] »Neptune's Child,
I know exactly what your saying and I agree with you. I have dabbled for many years and many times it has hitme that I am just playing around with symbols that represent the spectrum of human experience.......astrology
allows you to manipulate them into patterns that apply or make sense in your life. If something in your chart
doesn't make sense, then you just tweak it, look to an aspect or focus on the house not the sign, or look at thesidereal chart, or whatever you like to make it apply to your own reality.
I don't need to 'believe in it' in order for it to have value to me. It is just a way of making sense of your life
story, putting it into a coherent picture. I don't do prediction at all. Firstly because it is laughably inaccurate,and secondly because I rather like to be surprised by what life throws at me, and thirdly because it is mucheasier to make the transits fit after the fact!!
It's a game. But then sometimes I think science is a game, statistics is definately a game. And truth and reality
are very slippery. But games are fun, right!
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Neptune's StormEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #48 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 16.05.2009 at 03:36 [UT+1]:
Quote:
I think this thread has something to do with you. Surely you can see how with such a Saturnian chart this would inducea fair degree of doubt and pessimism, the likes of which you're displaying here

I predict the next time someone expresses a 'sense of doubt' about their tropical mandela (not that they have usually looked into it) you
will leap in with your sidereal (creative) sunsignisms and fit the cyber persona perfectly to it? -and I don't even dabble with the murky
predictive paradigm usually but this is a 100% methinks................

Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 16.05.2009 at 03:31 [UT+1]:
but yes 'sense of doubt' is a good mnemonic for the 'great malefic'.

Thanks.
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #49 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:52 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune's Storm on 16.05.2009 at 03:40 [UT+1]:
Thanks.

Saturn isn't in your chart Tommy, think about it................
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IP LoggeditzmeEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #50 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:52 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune's Storm on 16.05.2009 at 02:25 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:20 [UT+1]:
But how is that even possible?

Because in most cases the modality and polarity of the planetary placements is completely reversed/switched. That makes
a staggering difference.
Right, I know that. But they should either both be right or neither can be right. Either astrology as whole works or it doesn't. The sidereal
can show another aspect to the person, but it can't be the only "right" chart or system that makes sense. It's too arbitrary, which is mywhole problem with astrology right now.

I don't recall you ever saying you were a lawyer, only worked with them (a difference I can appreciate )being a
Sun j myself, with G 2nd.
I think you've brought up a can of worms that is worth opening however, and I suppose for me anyway it
simply doesn't work in a consistent manner as the above quote is looking for....."all or nothing?" "works ordoesn't work".....because it's not a science but an artform.
this is why it's inconsistent.
IMO.
p.s. maybe you are right Neptune Storm, I'm sure your memory is better then mine (probably a lot younger
brain and more cell power going)

We start losing brain cells after 60ish I think

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Neptune's StormEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #51 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:56 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 16.05.2009 at 03:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune's Storm on 16.05.2009 at 03:40 [UT+1]:
Thanks.

Saturn isn't in your chart Tommy, think about it................

You're implying your verbal diarrhea has a thought pattern, all evidence to the contrary.
Quote:
I don't recall you ever saying you were a lawyer, only worked with them (a difference I can appreciate )being a Sun myself, with 2nd.

I think NC said once she wanted to make partner, which I remembered as her saying she was a lawyer, mymistake.
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Charlie Charles

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

2nd« Reply #52 - on: 16.05.2009 at 03:57 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from lynnifer on 16.05.2009 at 03:37 [UT+1]:
Neptune's Child,
I know exactly what your saying and I agree with you. I have dabbled for many years and many times it has hit me that I am just playing
around with symbols that represent the spectrum of human experience.......astrology allows you to manipulate them into patterns that
apply or make sense in your life. If something in your chart doesn't make sense, then you just tweak it, look to an aspect or focus on thehouse not the sign, or look at the sidereal chart, or whatever you like to make it apply to your own reality.
I don't need to 'believe in it' in order for it to have value to me. It is just a way of making sense of your life story, putting it into a
coherent picture. I don't do prediction at all. Firstly because it is laughably inaccurate, and secondly because I rather like to be surprisedby what life throws at me, and thirdly because it is much easier to make the transits fit after the fact!!
It's a game. But then sometimes I think science is a game, statistics is definately a game. And truth and reality are very slippery. But
games are fun, right!

1091 posts - why waste space here and your time, and just get in everyones way...........can't you have more
fun somewhere else?
The symbols won't mean anything until you find out what they mean. Then you won't be able to shift them
about.
What does the Sun symbolise?

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Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #53 - on: 16.05.2009 at 08:09 [UT+1] »Sorry, no comment Charlie, I'm not clever enough to get into the verbal boxing ring with you.
You'll pulverise me.

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Waybread
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #54 - on: 16.05.2009 at 08:19 [UT+1] »Sometimes astrology works so well that it is just uncanny. Scary, really. At other times I doubt whether itworks at all. At those times--because astrology is my passion, notwithstanding--I try to do the kind of
astrology that would be useful to me or to others, whether or not it works.
For example, astrology deals with archetypes and some very foundational material about human nature. At
times, nearly everybody will feel curious, jealous, intrigued by Big Ideas, or disappointed by our own
limitations. Everybody contains all of the signs, planets, and houses of the horoscope. So possibly we canspeak to a common humanity.

Posts: 14740
Gender:I dislike the kind of predictive astrology that attempts to do to much. We've all seen questions on the
personals boards: "When will I get married?" Or "When will I strike it rich?" I think it is better to use transits
and progressions as ways to think about people's personal development. It is best if the "native" can become apartner with the astrologer in mapping out some positive steps, not just some kind of infantilized patient who
needs to be told in advance how his/her life is going to work out.
I do astrology because I find it utterly absorbing. But I do so as a congenital sceptic.

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rookishRe: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #55 - on: 16.05.2009 at 10:14 [UT+1] »Surely astrology is as good or accurate or well practiced as the astrologer's competence level at understanding
and interpreting relationships between symbols and the native's openness to knowledge at that point in time.
Sometimes you have to think carefully and consider what is the real question. If someone asks 'when will I getmarried' we really have to unpack what they think about marriage and what it will give them, what are theylooking for - social acceptance, status, support, financial security, unlimited sexual opportunity, stability etc etc
If we do not understand what it is that the native seeks because they only express it in a term that has broader
connotations we cannot possibly answer the question with any degree of accuracy that will be meaningful tothem.
Posts: 3675
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SeaGoat72
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #56 - on: 16.05.2009 at 10:23 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 16.05.2009 at 02:06 [UT+1]:'Don't believe the hype'.

This one is my favourite reminder, after memento mori.
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Basanti

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #57 - on: 16.05.2009 at 11:05 [UT+1] »When I think astrology isn't working I chalk it up to what I don't know yet about astrology. So far the more I
learn, the more I look at my life the more amazed I am at how accurate itis.

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IP LoggedChris K
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #58 - on: 17.05.2009 at 14:21 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 16.05.2009 at 02:08 [UT+1]:
Quote from Chris K on 15.05.2009 at 22:05 [UT+1]:
Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy tomake something make sense. I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future.
It's all so generalized. You have t

O in the 2nd, so you will have money issues or issues with values. Well,duh, chances are anyone will have this.
That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's
about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I liketo experiment and see if I can predict things.

You raise a good point. I remember when I was wondering about astrology, too. When I started in western astrology, I was
attracted to the promise of it, but a lot of it was so general and mostly psychological, I knew that there were logical holes
in it big enough to drive a truck through. I wasn't really into new age consciousness expansion anyway, so I started to lookaround for a more predictive outcomes oriented astrology. That's when I stumbled in Vedic /Hindu astrology. I could havejust as easily taken up classical or medieval astrology since it also focuses on events rather than psychological states.
So I would encourage you to check out some of those other branches of astrology before throwing in the towel or justtreating it like entertainment. Skyscript.co.uk is a very good site dedicated to traditional astrology. Lots of good Vedic
sites out there too that lay out the basics of that system. A good starting Vedic site is www.yournetastrologer.com.
It's not as difficult as you might think to learn the basics.

Thanks. I will look into vedic. If I recall, it's very doom and gloom, though. Is that true or was that just something I came across byreading only a brief snippet of it?

It can be gloom and doom, especially the way the Indians use it. They tend to be more fatalistic. But
westerners have adapted it for Western consumption. Less fate, more choice. More real.
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zippyMember

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #59 - on: 17.05.2009 at 16:20 [UT+1] »I read from one astrologer (sorry, I don't remember who) that said after extensive research into criminal charts,
she found an astounding similarity to policemen charts. But I've also been told by a cop friend of mine that it'sa thin line between cops and crooks. So I guess free will is alive and well.
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DaydreamSheep
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #60 - on: 17.05.2009 at 22:31 [UT+1] »Whether Astrology can actually predict at 100% or not, it actually depends a lot on the current available
knowledge, specially on the astrologer.
But personally, I don't think that Astrology is nonsense. It is a symbolism system based on human psychology
and knowledge, and whether it can be used for accurate predictions or not, one can certainly use it for a better
understanding of many things.

Posts: 205
Gender:Just a side note, I'm not sure if Astrology could ever predict things in 100%, but if we assume that Astrology
can, then we would be assuming that there's no free will. But well, actually I'm open about the idea that
Astrology might be able or not to predict things in 100% and if there's really free will or not.

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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

itzme

Ex Member« Reply #61 - on: 18.05.2009 at 04:36 [UT+1] »Edgar Cayce gave a reading once that mentioned the human race in percentages of accuracy when it came to
Astrology natal predictions.
He said in effect that 3/4 of the human race can be read fairly accurately especially to help for the career.
And that the remainder was broken down in percentages such as:
20% can be read "somewhat"
05% not at all(note: the percentages may have been 70-20-10) I can't recall exactly)
The reason why this is so he said, is because those who are actively working on themselves overcoming theirown dispositions via their free will won't be able to be read exactly anymore
and the minority not at all because they've pretty much overcame these vibrations in their natal charts.
I think the numbers are lopsided here, (not exact as per his reading) however the idea is the same.
The numbers also coincide with Philosophers who wrote about the followers in life.
The Gnostics wrote about percentages of people in this regard too.
I found this reading which speaks of some percentages, but I think there is another which is moreclear: From Reading 5753-3: (referenced on page 5 "Edgar Cayce's Astrology for the Soul" by Margaret
Gammon & W.H.Church:
For in about twenty percent of the populace at the present time, it is dependent upon what the individuals havedone with their urges THROUGH material sojourns.
As indicated through this channel, some are in keeping with the astrological charts, others are found to bepartially so, others are diametrically opposed to same - because of the activities of the individuals.
9. (Q) How can the urges from past incarnations be determined by a test or series of tests?
(A) As just indicated, - this may only be done by giving the material sojourns of the individual.
But if the astrological aspects and influences are given, then there may be determined a questionnaire fromsame.
10. (Q) Should the chart be drawn from the geocentric or the heliocentric system?
(A) The geocentric system would be the more in keeping with the Persian force or influence.
11. (Q) Any other suggestion to Hugh Lynn Cayce regarding the development of this at this time?
(A) As indicated, there may be charts drawn of five individuals, and a questionnaire may be determined forfactors in the individual experience, - as to what their inclinations or activities are. Not by telling, but by
questioning!
----------------------------------From Reading # 5753-3
4. The astrological aspects may give a tendency, an inclination; and a systematic, scientific study of same would
indicate the vocation. And about eighty percent of the individuals would be in the position of being influenced
by such astrological aspects; or would be in the position for their abilities to be indicated from same.
5. But the other twenty percent would not be in that position, due to the influences from activity or theuse of their abilities in material experience. Hence in these it would be not only necessary that their materialsojourns be given, but as to what had been accomplished through same, and that to be met in the present
experience. For, as has been indicated, no influence - astrologically or from material sojourns surpasses the will or the determination of the individual. Then, there are material factors that rule orgovern or direct or influence such forces. These may be tempered by the astrological aspects, but these arenot (the astrological aspects) the major influence or force, - the willis

6. Thus, only about eighty percent of the individuals may have their abilities indicated from the astrologicalaspects in the direction of vocational guidance, as to be a determining factor for such.
7. If some five individuals would be taken, and their charts or astrological aspects indicated, and questions
asked as to determining the influence or force from same, - from such an aspect there might be given
information so that a general chart might be indicated for a questionnaire, or a test, or an activity that would
be of material benefit in a great NUMBER of individuals - but never a perfect score may be indicated. For thewill, as well as the factors of environment, have their influence.
---------------------------------Note:
To put into context I was reading the background of this reading which said that the son Hugh Lynn
was actually trying to put together a program in the Boy Scouts of America for training and helping young men
with their vocations and thought asking about astrology from his father might be helpful in devising such a test
using natal charts! This then, is the background context for this particular reading in the late 1930s (1936)

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Syzygy
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #62 - on: 18.05.2009 at 04:58 [UT+1] »Yes, Neptune's Child, really.
I think.
I'm not sure what you're asking "really" in relationship to, but I'll answer, "really," since you asked, "really?"
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Alice Portman

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #63 - on: 18.05.2009 at 05:03 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy to make something make sense.
I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future. It's all so generalized. You have t

O in the 2nd, so you will

have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances are anyone will have this.

Posts: 2541
Gender:That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like to experiment and see if I
can predict things.

I suppose you aren't aware of the precision of astrology. Perhaps you have just read books that are geared
towards people who are just starting to learn astrology and need to broadly understand how these energies
work, or worse still, only picked up a smattering of knowledge from the internet. These modalities are forpeople just touching on the subject or in their first few years of study in Astrology. As you develop further skill
the requirements become much more precise.
Transiting Uranus just moving through the 2nd house of personal security, including money, won't have muchaffect on finances or security, but Uranus transiting the 2nd cusp will and Uranus transiting a planet in the 2nd
house will and transiting Uranus making an aspect to the ruler of the 2nd house will. For further edification of
the precision required with higher level astrology perhaps you can read my and other's posts on this thread:
http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php?topic=693.0
Quote:
Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.

Where on earth did you get this idea? A transit can only work according to its nature and the area it isactivating. Unskilled astrologers tend to put a very broad interpretation on transits, but the more skilled you
become in comprehending how these energies will work in your culture, the more precise you can become on
how they will function in your life. You can't condemn astrology because you have only played around with akindergarten level in this field.
Many people on forums just play with astrological theories and ideas and this is fine as long as you don't take it
too seriously. If you want to know what you are doing in astrology from the ground up you need to find an
excellent teacher who will help you develop an understanding of the building blocks of astrology (planets, signs,
houses and aspects) and then how to accurately synthesise these factors. This generally takes at least a year tolearn to do well and often two years. Only then are you of a standard to learn the techniques of prediction andhow to apply them to the people in your culture. This takes at least a year to become the tiniest bit skilled inthis field. After about seven years of serious study in astrology you might be ready to take your first steps inthe complicated minefield of Mundane Astrology and attempt to forecast world events.
If you reach this level of skill you may then be in a position to comment on whether or not the astrological
techniques you have been using work for you, but you will still be nowhere near a position to comment on
Astrology as a whole. After 40 years of studying, teaching and lecturing I am still opening more and more of
the profound doorways offered and these lead to an almost constant feeling of deep awe.
Alice

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Syzygy
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #64 - on: 18.05.2009 at 05:10 [UT+1] »Alice, exactly... although I don't believe you have to begin with mundane astrology as a marker of expertise, I
do concur with the rest.
I just recently talked with someone who used to "believe" in astrology and now says he no longer "believes" in
it. I've listened to him complain bitterly for months about how astrology is completely inaccurate, cannot
predict a damned thing, etc., etc. This is someone with a provisional interest, who mostly became interested in
astrology to better understand himself, as happens for so many people. I think for those of us who got into it
not for a better understanding of ourselves, but to understand astrology as a system, it is much easier tohandle the pieces that do not seem to "make sense" in a rational way (unless and until you begin to see theoverarching system/architecture of astrology that makes it make sense). There is a realm of understanding you
reach eventually, when you begin to synthesise all the information you've learned, that allows you to see how it
all works.
Predictive astrology is absolutely possible. The reason it's possible is because the astrological chart is a timekeeper, a method of understanding how time passes and how energies influence that passage of time. There areindicators on the cusps of each house, activated by transits, that will show us very clearly what will happen andhow we will most likely react. However, this is only possible when the chart is observed holistically, rather than
atomistically. The primary mistake that every single person who becomes disenchanted and disillusioned withthis system of stellar timing makes is when they reduce the chart to one point, and focus on that one point.
They lose the forest for the trees, essentially, and become disillusioned because the larger whole is obliterated
by their own lack of vision. This response to the study, practice and system of astrology is very common. It
isn't a matter of belief as much as it is a matter of understanding.
I throw this ball in the air all the time; should I "believe" in astrology? Should I give it up? Is it right, is it
wrong? Etc. But ultimately, for me, it's a pointless debate, one of many I engage in for all kinds of intellectual
reasons. The simple fact remains that I know too much to ever stop being an astrologer, and I will continue tolearn as I go.
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BasantiMember

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #65 - on: 18.05.2009 at 05:12 [UT+1] »Itzme- I agree. Right now in my life I am SO my chart. However back in the days where I isolated myself
doing 8-12 hours of spiritual sadhana and when I had kundalini rise, I really had no traits whatsoever of mychart. I was working intently on burning as much karma (in that point in time-talking dimensions here) for the
purpose of enlightenment that I had transcended my chart temporarily. I had a few astrologers then TRY and
Posts: 2872
Gender:read for me and they were famous for my area but they we're so so off base. The only thing that I would haveto say that I did not transcend during that phase was my vedic chart which is 8th house and the scorpio
intensity I carried to give me the impetus to do the sadhana so intensely to begin with.
Then I stopped my spiritual disciplines in 2001 and started being a normal householder involved inrelationships more so than ever. THAT is when my charts energies really started playing out. My mind was nolonger in transcendant places and I was caught in the web of my chart and those of others.
I like it. Transcending a chart is wonderful. That time of my life I remember so fondly and the experiences
have shaped who I am but I like learning about my human complexities..so I just want to make a point that aperson can transcend a chart and dive right back into it again. Its falacy to think once transcended you staythat way. Not neccessarily. Consciousness moves all the time and so does life direction and desires, and that is
the main reason why.

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direct Jupitarian
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #66 - on: 18.05.2009 at 05:31 [UT+1] »I just wanted to clarify that i've never doubted the essential validity of astrology, just have gotten sick ofastrology and it's inherently limiting nature at times. Never thought it was b.s., but i have thought that someturn it into b.s. b.s. aka belief system bull poop.
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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #67 - on: 18.05.2009 at 06:32 [UT+1] »With all due respect to Alice McD and Syzygy (and to all of you other pros or super amateurs) I think that there
are limits to contemporary astrological practice--except possibly at a level far more advanced than my happily
intermediate hobby level. But just as the Gauquelins concluded that astrology "works"--but that it just doesn't
work in ways used by most astrologers--I am willing to entertain the possibility that far more refinedtechniques are available that I just haven't studied.
Case studies.

Posts: 14740
Gender:1. One of the most intriguing threads that I read on this Forum was by an identical twin, born minutes apartfrom her sibling. There were only minor differences in the chart; and those differences didn't seem significant
enough to show that the other twin was autistic. I inquired about post-birth vaccination schedules or other
differences in the twins' lives, but was told they were the same.
A bunch of us tried our darndest to interpret the charts, but I just didn't see that their differences were
sufficient to predict autism for the other twin. For example, this or that dwad might be a bit different, but it
was hard to get autism out of that.
2. I recently had the uncanny experience, on another Forum, of finding a poster whose chart was almost
identical to my daughter's. Same birth date, same birth time; although a few degrees of difference related totheir different locations; but basically both were born in the western US. It was the identical chart "as near as
dammit." Well, there was some synchronicity. Both the anonymous poster and my daughter are going throughquestions of what should be their vocations. Both expressed interest, at the university level, in studying
anthropology and film studies. My daughter is great with little children, and is thinking of early childhood
education as her career. I suggested this pathway to the anonymous poster, who expressed zero interest in
working with small children.
Well, I can see that two "Astro-twins" could have sufficiently different life experiences to construe their careers
in different ways, but with charts that were nearly identical, I just didn't see why one should love small children
and the other be indifferent to them.
3. Has anyone read Under One Sky, edited by R. Nasser and Jodie Forrest? Basically the editor found an older
woman who had lived a fair bit of her life. She was asked to write a chapter-length autobiography. Nasser
signed on a dozen senior, well-established published astrologers, who came from various "schools" of astrology,
such as classical psychological, &c. The astrologers agreed to write chapter-length "blind" readings of "Joyce's"
chart, which were submitted without them meeting "Joyce" or reading her autobiography until after the bookwent to press. Well, most of these readings were just way off the mark! The two closest ones, I thought, wereby the Vedic and asteroid-centered astrologer.
More generally, astrology does not deal with the cultural contexts in which people find themselves. We can ask
for more information about the "native", but the chart doesn't say what is her ethnic group, socio-economic
status, and the like.
Don't get me wrong. Astrology has been my passion for the past 18 or so years. If I buy any more astrology
books I will need to build an annex on my house. I love reading charts for people, and try to learn from my"misses" as well as from my "hits." But I don't think it hurts astrology's cause to be sceptical about it. If the
stuff works, we'll come 'round eventually.

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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BSCharlie Charles
2nd« Reply #68 - on: 18.05.2009 at 13:08 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote:
One of the most intriguing threads that I read on this Forum was by an identical twin, born minutes apart from her sibling. There were
only minor differences in the chart; and those differences didn't seem significant enough to show that the other twin was autistic. I
inquired about post-birth vaccination schedules or other differences in the twins' lives, but was told they were the same.
A bunch of us tried our darndest to interpret the charts, but I just didn't see that their differences were sufficient to predict autism for theother twin. For example, this or that dwad might be a bit different, but it was hard to get autism out of that

You could have asked a Psychological Astrologer (although i can't recall seeing one here), not that they would
predict someone being/becoming 'autistic' (what's autism? - bit of a spectrum here) - they would have spun
you a each twin 'owns' some of the chart narrative............the difference is in the 'dynamic'
One manifests EoJ the other doesn't............thus the/a problem with 'stats' from this paradigm (for thissample at least)
Which is why (maybe) twins reared apart should be more (psychologically) 'similar' than those reared
together...............
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Das Stavrou

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #69 - on: 18.05.2009 at 14:54 [UT+1] »Also
We dont know it all yet. The planets are a complex wonderful system of energies that we as a species know sod
all about still. We can but keep exploring.

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Alice Portman
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #70 - on: 18.05.2009 at 16:16 [UT+1] »Quote from Waybread on 18.05.2009 at 06:32 [UT+1]:

Case studies.

Posts: 2541
Gender:1. One of the most intriguing threads that I read on this Forum was by an identical twin, born minutes apart from her sibling. There were
only minor differences in the chart; and those differences didn't seem significant enough to show that the other twin was autistic. I
inquired about post-birth vaccination schedules or other differences in the twins' lives, but was told they were the same.
A bunch of us tried our darndest to interpret the charts, but I just didn't see that their differences were sufficient to predict autism for theother twin. For example, this or that dwad might be a bit different, but it was hard to get autism out of that.

It's a pity I didn't know about this thread.
Sometimes I feel as though I am beating my head against a brick wall
On this forum and on other advanced ones I have presented clear and highly accurate duad charts that show
the differences between twins born even a minute apart. I have given my site address so people can read anarticle on this and peruse the charts for themselves. Here it is again:
http://astrologeraliceportman.xanaduonline.com.au/astrology/duad/twins.html. The same article
has been published in the Federation of Australian Astrologers magazine. I have clearly described how to
calculate a duad chart either through Solar Fire v7 (though the article contains an error) or through using acalculator. In Australia I have given several talks on the same area doing 'blind' and 'cold' readings on twins or
relatives of twins who have brought their chart to the talk. I have even described how I discovered thismethod.
These charts clearly work and have been confirmed by the people involved time and time again. They havebeen confirmed by total strangers to me in far flung places in the world as well as by people who sat
anonymously in the audience whilst I spoke about their chart.
So in future please consider checking out the full duad chart, not just the duad where a planet or angle resides,
when working with twins.
That being said, as yet we don't know how to discern autism from a natal or duad chart. However, the exercise
on the twins might have brought some clarity in this area.
Quote:

2. I recently had the uncanny experience, on another Forum, of finding a poster whose chart was almost identical to my daughter's. Samebirth date, same birth time; although a few degrees of difference related to their different locations; but basically both were born in thewestern US. It was the identical chart "as near as dammit." Well, there was some synchronicity. Both the anonymous poster and mydaughter are going through questions of what should be their vocations. Both expressed interest, at the university level, in studying
anthropology and film studies. My daughter is great with little children, and is thinking of early childhood education as her career. I
suggested this pathway to the anonymous poster, who expressed zero interest in working with small children.
Well, I can see that two "Astro-twins" could have sufficiently different life experiences to construe their careers in different ways, but withcharts that were nearly identical, I just didn't see why one should love small children and the other be indifferent to them.

The "few degrees of difference" in each chart would make the world of difference in each individual's approach
to life. These few degrees would describe at least one genetic thread that was vastly different to the otherperson's and that would affect the whole dynamic of the natal chart. I will say it yet again - the duad chart ofeach person would clarify their differences.
Quote:
More generally, astrology does not deal with the cultural contexts in which people find themselves. We can ask for more information aboutthe "native", but the chart doesn't say what is her ethnic group, socio-economic status, and the like.

And this does make a considerable difference in the way a person uses the energy imprinted at their firstbreath. A passionate Latin would tend to use a Venus-Mars conjunction in Scorpio in a different way to a cool
nordic type. A poor girl born with this energy might sleep her way to a better socio-economic status whilst arich girl could spend a lot of time shopping.
Quote:
But I don't think it hurts astrology's cause to be sceptical about it. If the stuff works, we'll come 'round eventually.

Scepticism based on ignorance is beyond foolish. It is better to make no comment at all about something of
which you know very little or nothing. I tend to not bother to enter into any dialogue with these types ofpeople unless I feel they may do harm by their ignorance.
However, the type of scepticism you present Waybread is worth considering as you have studied thepsychological side of astrology for 17 years, are willing to enter into discussion and are willing to consider themultitude of ways people attempt to comprehend and map this vast field of information. This has previously
formed the basis of interesting debates and I am sure that these will continue.
AliceBack to top
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #71 - on: 18.05.2009 at 16:28 [UT+1] »Quote:
Sometimes I feel as though I am beating my head against a brick wallDon't believe the hypeIt's the what's in your head that numbs mine now and then. Someone just cited your 'New Age' Vertex article
here...........
Have you ever noticed young twins dressed in the same 'outfit' how do you think they are feeling about this?
Psychology Alice, why be so scared of it? We've all got Hairy armpits..................
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itzme
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #72 - on: 18.05.2009 at 17:22 [UT+1] »Is anyone famililar with the book by Gunther Sachs? The multi-billionaire scion of a rich man in Germany whobeyond having been one time a full time playboy, mathematician and ex of Bridget Bardot also tried (with his
inheritance) to prove astrology in a study he paid for? I think it was a respected university he hired toprove his case.
I'm SOO0 glad I didn't purchase his book, even for entertainment purposes.
I'd rather be entertained by the UFO crowd.

Scrutiny of Gunter Sachs's excursion into astrological research
By Suitbert Ertel
http://www.rudolfhsmit.nl/s-crit2.htm(condensed version of just the original article)
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:nHjjk-vhEOMJ:www.rudolfhsmit.nl/s-crit1.htm+astrology+file+book&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Who he is :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunter_Sachs
flaws in the reasoning. Neither Sachs nor his advisors, which included the Statistical Institute of Munich
University and the head of the Institut fur Demoskopie (a respected German opinion research institute), hadnoticed these flaws.
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Sensorei

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Ex Member« Reply #73 - on: 18.05.2009 at 17:41 [UT+1] »Has anyone here looked into Magi astrology? It brings a whole new angle to astrology by looking at Heliocentric
planetary geometry. I mean, as if astrology wasn't complicated enough already! They say financial astrology
cannot be accurate without Heliocentric aspects. I find their ideas to be quite dramatic and extreme but I havelearnt quite a bit of useful stuff as well. What's great about their software is that their charts show declinations
and the interpretations although rather fatalistic are very intriguing and hold a lot of truth over sometraditional western astrology that I have had problems following.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #74 - on: 18.05.2009 at 17:59 [UT+1] »Waybread, it isn't a question of continued study. It's a question of synthesis of what you've studied, andwhether or not the mind can make the leap that we think of as "brilliance" or genius, if you will.
The "greatest" minds in the world are not made great by more study. They're great precisely because they cantake what they already know and apply that knowledge in a way that others cannot understand until theoutcome is revealed. Then there are those who are still caught up learning the details of the dance steps, a skill
that requires the entire body to be effective, as does astrology, with its reliance not just on the mind, but on
one's apprehension of the world through one's senses and innate knowing of others and self.
Most people watch their feet when they learn how to dance, trepidatious of getting something wrong, but for
those for whom dance is an innate skill or talent, their ability responds to the flow of the music; their innatesense of timing, rhythm and movement takes over, making fluidity possible. It's very similar in any creative
pursuit that requires a deeper understanding than book learning can provide; there comes a point where if you
don't get it, you don't get it, and further study isn't going to change anything.

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itzme

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #75 - on: 18.05.2009 at 18:07 [UT+1] »Quote from Sensorei on 18.05.2009 at 17:41 [UT+1]:
Has anyone here looked into Magi astrology? It brings a whole new angle to astrology by looking at Heliocentric planetary geometry. I
mean, as if astrology wasn't complicated enough already! They say financial astrology cannot be accurate without Heliocentric aspects. I
find their ideas to be quite dramatic and extreme but I have learnt quite a bit of useful stuff as well. What's great about their software isthat their charts show declinations and the interpretations although rather fatalistic are very intriguing and hold a lot of truth over sometraditional western astrology that I have had problems following.

Yes, I've checked them out before a few years ago, and think as you do, their ideas are intriguing.
Especially their staunchness concerning Financial astrology. But I'll have to look at it again, as I don't have any
money to invest
I didn't realize either that they promote Heliocentric with financial astrology. Did you
happen to buy that program yourself? They seem to promise fantastic results if you follow their buy and sellpositions.
I like their findings on Chiron however in personal long-term marriages and relationships. Find it to be rather
accurate.
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Charlie Charles

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

2nd« Reply #76 - on: 18.05.2009 at 19:11 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 17:59 [UT+1]:
Most people watch their feet when they learn how to dance, trepidatious of getting something wrong, but for those for whom dance is an
innate skill or talent, their ability responds to the flow of the music; their innate sense of timing, rhythm and movement takes over,making fluidity possible. It's very similar in any creative pursuit that requires a deeper understanding than book learning can provide;
there comes a point where if you don't get it, you don't get it, and further study isn't going to change anything.

You could develop an astrological narrative here, if you can relate to this.................
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EarthandAir

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #77 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:26 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 17:59 [UT+1]:

The "greatest" minds in the world are not made great by more study. They're great precisely because they can take what they alreadyknow and apply that knowledge in a way that others cannot understand until the outcome is revealed. Then there are those who are stillcaught up learning the details of the dance steps, a skill that requires the entire body to be effective, as does astrology, with its reliancenot just on the mind, but on one's apprehension of the world through one's senses and innate knowing of others and self.

Posts: 800

Okay, if you say so. I would like to meet even one of these brilliant geniuses however. I have not ever read,met, or spoken with an astrologer whom I would have estimated could see something in my chart that I could
not. I have met many who see things in my chart that I don't though.
Where are these people, Syzygy? I am honestly asking that question. And, if you have a "little" chart and not a'big" one, are you qualified to receive the analysis of a brilliant astrologer?
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Tony the Tiger
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #78 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:42 [UT+1] »I have never been more convinced of astrology's truths than when I was in the phase of trying to be a skeptic. I
have posted, a few years ago, about my Saturn "clocks" and how, with my strong emphasis of planets and ASC
in the 1st and 10th fixed houses, that s transit of Saturn to any of my fixed, angular houses, meant difficulties
through the squares, oppositions or conjunctions. These occur, obviously with regular occurrence and my life's
Posts: 226
Gender:challenges can be mapped precisely by these transits, and this is just one planet and one type of transit. My
birth chart, repeating what Alice said, is soooo me. I have been "into" astrology since 1965 or so, over 40
years! I have seen and felt all types of aspects and they ring insanely true! But it takes a long time tounderstand what is happening and what these aspects mean. It takes a sense of observation and awarenesss topick up the vibrations. Once you get that, things fall into place. I cannot claim to be a predictive astrologer.
However, my knoweldge of changing conditions has given me lots of insights into patterns that have helped mealong in life. There is always much to learn and I can spend hours here, offering examples of the shockingly
accurate astrological aspects I have experienced on a routine basis.

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Friesiangal

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #79 - on: 19.05.2009 at 00:31 [UT+1] »Can I express a thought referring to Neptune'sChild's original idea?
Do you mean that you cannot see/predict astro. patterns generally, or more personally that you cannot
see/predict patterns/(future)trends in your own chart?
Posts: 6820
Gender:I know that every astro. enthusiast begins by attempting the dissection of one's own chart in order 'to get the
feel' regarding what the symbolism relates to and means. With so many planets in so many signs we can always
find something about ourselves that will fit, even though one person might place an ability to relate with
Mercury, whilst another praises his Gemini influence and yet another their sociable Moon in Libra. A lot depends
upon mind focus and what we want to see as verified (or not!). Yet you can't chop and change a house realm
and its meaning to get the right answer. A 1st house influence will never provide the circumstances that go witha 9th house, for example. The choices immediately become fewer and therefore the possibility of verification
more accurate.
After 3 years of lessons, I felt confident enough to try my hand at personal future prediction. It didn't work. I
couldn't 'see' anything....except as confirmation of patterns in retrospect which, as NC says, is not what iswanted. I was too close....and maybe too scared... to be honest with and about myself. I chucked out my own
chart and began concentrating on other people. Everything seemed to click and fall into place because I could
be impersonally objective. After a further 25 years I hope I still am.
I have always said to people that I can't predict exactly WHAT will happen but only the specific realm(s) of lifethat will undergo activity of some kind or another. I never say, 'This is going to happen' rather than e.g. 'Uranus
in the 7th house conjunct Saturn can often be suggestive of a rebellious change towards old, seemingly
restrictive patterns that no longer serve a purpose, that can offer more freedom within, and bring about atotally different view of a relationship. Does that mean anything to you?' My own feelings are that it is for theclient to work out for themselves what is going on in their life and not the role of the astrologer to tell them.

Maybe this is something that NC could attempt, to see if his/her understanding of astro. symbolism then'clicks'?
Just 2 cents worth.
Friesiangal

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mistycharm
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #80 - on: 19.05.2009 at 01:34 [UT+1] »Well, I have been turned off by astrology sometimes too because of the generalizations, but the more I've
thought about it, the more I've thought it's more about me not being personally impressed by the astrologers,
rather than astrology itself. Otherwise, I think I would have stopped being interested in it if I really deep down
felt it was the astrology. I have looked into a couple different types of astrology, so I know for me it's not aboutfinding that one system that works better than the other, but about listening to the right people.

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gottaGrip

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #81 - on: 19.05.2009 at 03:10 [UT+1] »I think astrology works, but the modern/conventional interpretations are off-base.
If the interpretations are off-base, then so will the readings.
In order to find the answers, people have to wake up and find out what the actual planets/stars are like. Verymuch outside of the realm of science, unfortunately...
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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #82 - on: 19.05.2009 at 03:49 [UT+1] »Alice, you are a very fine astrologer, with a long-term professional practice. So please be patient with those of
us who are not at your level, and may never get there! If it is still archived, I should go back to the longish
thread I started on dwads, in which you offered some wonderful insights.
BTW, when I was working I developed a "rule of 5." It takes at least 5 tries for an employee to draw an issue tothe attention of her supervisor. Time 5 doesn't mean the supervisor will do what she wants: it just means that
he has gotten his head to a point where he can at least grasp the issues. Similarly, supervisors need a "rule of
5 as well." If they intend some kind of change in their organization's approach to an issue, they will have toaddress it at least 5 times before the employees are ready to deal with it. And I worked for a large research
university. Probably a rule of 5 pertains to the finer points of astrology, also.
Posts: 14740
Gender:

Syzygy, I think we are in agreement. No one who lacks a kind of panoramic purview, love of complex systems,
or capacity to synthesize multiple facts simultaneously belongs in astrology. IMHO. And it's not just thehoroscope. Astrology would be a tough field for someone without a sympathetic grasp of human nature in allits diversity, and with all of its flaws and brilliance.
Friesiangal, it is nice to see you back! I support your idea of interpreting future events. Maybe it is because I
am insufficiently skilled to time anything with accuracy. Or maybe it is because I believe in choice-centeredastrology.
EALA FRYA FRESENA! LEVER DOD AS SLAAV!

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SelenaEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #83 - on: 19.05.2009 at 11:38 [UT+1] »http://www.internationalastrologers.com/twins.htm
Unfortunately I do not have the thread anymore.
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GoUtopians
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #84 - on: 19.05.2009 at 17:07 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy to make something make sense.
I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in the future. It's all so generalized. You have t
have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances are anyone will have this.

O in the 2nd, so you will

That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's about it.
Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like to experiment and see if I
can predict things.

Hi Neptune's Child,well, I have not been on this forum in like forever, because I have had virtually no interest in astrology. I
haven't thrown it out the window, I'm really just not into it lately. I did decide today to look into
Neptune/Pluto aspects and consider their far-reaching historical impact--if I did that a year or two ago, it would
have been primarily an astrological interest with the historical interest being a supplemental concern, but thistime it is the reverse--but, anyway, so I came to astro.com hoping to check out the online ephemeris and said,
what the hell, I'll duck into the forum, then I saw your thread title and a knowing, devilish smirk crossed myface. So, I'll give you my response just to your post, for now not regarding any of the 5 pages of responses.
I think that astrology itself is not so much BS as that it has yet to exist in a "stripped down" form that I wouldfind personally palatable-- free from new-age-isms, free from the influence of metaphysical stuff in general, but,
most of all, free from the expectations people have of it to present some kind of golden path to solving theirlife problems. I am interested in astrology as it really exists rather than how it exists in most people's minds-that is a very hard concept to articulate beyond its obvious implications, so I'll do so in another post if at all. I
will also add that although I have given some "readings" that have been accurate enough to impress theirrecipients, I have never been able to bring myself to charge money for it because it just doesn't seem right tome. Just my opinion.
At this point, astrology is something I periodically test out in various situations with no emotional investment
in whether or not it will "work" or will produce any specific results. I do not use it making decisions in my own
life AT ALL anymore. If I want to do something, I do it without giving the slightest thought to what is goingon in my chart--also, I will not base a decision of whether or not to enter a romantic relationship on astrology,
no matter what is or isn't there in synastry or composite.
The one thing I disagree with you on is isolating "fun" as the baby that is to be left when the bathwater istossed out. I am more interested in how astrology might be equipped reveal information about how theuniverse works, as well as how history "unfolds" over time. If I did not find there to be anything of serious
import in astrology, I would abandon it altogether.
One more thing I will add is, even if astrology turned out to be BS, it has yielded some very interesting ways ofthinking about life. For example the 12 houses/signs-- pretty much all life experience can be relegated to oneof the 12, and thinking about which of the 12 is involved in any given life situation can actually yield somepretty good insight... even for someone who has no interest in astrology per se, and that is not the only
example.

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realworld

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Ex Member« Reply #85 - on: 19.05.2009 at 18:06 [UT+1] »I don't think that astrology is "BS", but I do think that (as mentioned in other posts) we tend to isolate
outselves in an "astro-bubble".
We isolate ourselves from the rest of society when we use our language of planets and signs. Compare astrojargon to what a psychotherapist does with a client, or simply how we talk to friends and family in real life.
Celebrity therapists, psychologists and just regular people like friends counsel us and help solve our problems
but relating them to real events, real people, history, nature, fiction (Shakespeare said so and so") etc. These
are concepts that most people can see or read with their own eyes, not mythical/occult concepts like planets orsigns. Psychological counseling or friendly chat does not have the spiritual element of astrology, but neither
does it ask us to believe in anything that we cannot relate to in real life.
For example, someone going through a hard Pluto aspect might be experiencing power struggles or jealousy.
They would be going through this whether they knew about astrology or not! Would advice given to them
about dealing with power struggles or jealousy really be any different to advice given by a wise friend about
these subjects?
The only advantage I can see is that astrology would give them a time frame - when the Pluto transit started
and when it would end. But this knowledge is a double-edged sword, because now that the person has been
introduced to astrology, they are going to worry about future transits and what they mean. The "client" nowhas the added burden of having to learn about the whole karma/free will dilemma, on top of their original
problems.
Neptune - I think that you might be picking up on the current "Zeitgeist" of Pluto in Capricorn. After 14 years
of Sagittarius vibe, I definitely notice a trend of "enough of this, get real!" It is almost at a crisis point in
America, where science education has been seriously eroded by religious fundamentalists, and I sense a very
neccessary backlash now.
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Alice Portman
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #86 - on: 20.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1] »Quote from Selena on 19.05.2009 at 11:38 [UT+1]:
http://www.internationalastrologers.com/twins.htm
Unfortunately I do not have the thread anymore.

Posts: 2541
Gender:

Hi SelenaThank you for sending this. I had lost the contact and couldn't remember the name of the site.
It seems to be all mixed up, with the charts on top of the text and some text on top of the rest. I don't knowwhat has happened as it wasn't originally like that.
Alice
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SelenaEx Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #87 - on: 20.05.2009 at 08:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Alice McDermott on 20.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Quote from Selena on 19.05.2009 at 11:38 [UT+1]:
http://www.internationalastrologers.com/twins.htm
Unfortunately I do not have the thread anymore.

Hi SelenaThank you for sending this. I had lost the contact and couldn't remember the name of the site.
It seems to be all mixed up, with the charts on top of the text and some text on top of the rest. I don't know what has happened as it
wasn't originally like that.
Alice

You are very welcome, Alice...
Thanks for your substantial and significant contributions.
I liked the information very much so I saved and bookmarked it. Here is the other one in case you or someone
else need it. Site maintenance seems to be better here.
http://astrologeraliceportman.xanaduonline.com.au/astrology/duad/twins.html
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Thom Christian
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #88 - on: 20.05.2009 at 16:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:20 [UT+1]:
We make it so astrology explains events. When you're looking at something after the fact it is so easy tomake something make sense. I've yet to have astrology explain something that will happen in
the future. It's all so generalized. You have tO in the 2nd, so you will have money issues or issues with values. Well, duh, chances
are anyone will have this.
That is just an example, but it's true for any transit. Any transit can be made to fit circumstances.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm really starting to question the whole thing. I still think it's fun, but that's about it.

Does anyone ever feel this way? I get like this from time to time, but astrology is just so entertaining. I like to experimentand see if I can predict things.

I've been waiting half a lifetime to hear someone say that.....LOL....I've felt the same way for a long time. I
even told someone that since they seemed to have a lot of talent at "predicting the past", why don't they try
predicting the future. (Darn that B o J in 8 and 10...lol) Then I ran into a very talented astrologer. I think alittle different about it now.
Since then I have been researching to try and show some repeated results. I've seen some pretty amazing
things. All co-incidence? Maybe. Does it prove anything. Not so far. Not enough data yet. I want 100s of
examples that can be verified. But those examples I have seen so far, still freak me out.
I am also studying Vedic Astrology. Vedic astro adjusts for all the changes in the positions of the constellations
with respect to the earth. It seems that over time things fall behind. According to Vedic astro we are almost awhole sign behind. IE: When it's December 10th and the full moon is said to be in Gemini, since it would benight time, you can look at it and see it actually appears to be in Taurus. I'm told that 4 or 5000 years ago thiswas not so.
So again, I am only researching and haven't decided yet. But you may be interested in looking into this. I haveseen some pretty amazing results so far, but again....the jury's still out. I am also seriously impressed with yourpost. Please feel free to contact me anytime. I would love to see some experimenting done for repeated results.
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Thom Christian

Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #89 - on: 20.05.2009 at 17:08 [UT+1] »Quote from GoUtopians on 19.05.2009 at 17:07 [UT+1]:
I will also add that although I have given some "readings" that have been accurate enough to impress their recipients, I have never beenable to bring myself to charge money for it because it just doesn't seem right to me. Just my opinion.

My kind of people! I do the same thing and I feel much better about it. I have had people send me gifts AFTER
I did a reading that actually helped them, and I guess that's okay, but I never ask for anything, and mostpeople I help can't afford it anyway. I believe we will all receive our just rewards one day, so to me it doesn't
matter.
I salute you "GoUtopians".
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Thom Christian
Ex Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #90 - on: 20.05.2009 at 22:09 [UT+1] »Quote from Neptune'sChild on 15.05.2009 at 19:57 [UT+1]:
Quote from CancerLadie on 15.05.2009 at 19:47 [UT+1]:
Who knows if it is indeed true? What I do know though is that astrology has made me a more spiritual, loving, accepting
person and it has enhanced my feeling of oneness. The archetypes and psychological attributes can explain those of all of
humanity and that alone is fascinating.
I am also addicted to those A-HA moments where i see a strong correlation (after the fact). That's what keeps me comingback for more

It has not made me any of those things that it's made you. That's pretty cool. For me, it's just entertainment. I don't think it could makeme change at all. I only change through experiences.

I like those a-ha moments too! It almost makes me believe, but not quite. I guess astrology islike religion, in that some people believe it while others don't and it can never be proven right orwrong.

I have been dabbling in the idea of showing whether or not astrology is as significant as science for some time
now. Sometimes it's hard to remain objective but I try. What I'm looking for is a fast way to show repeatedresults. Like IE: charts that have a challenged N in the 1st house, and strange birth circumstances.
One was Louise Brown's chart, the world's first test tube baby. I am pretty amazed at the results. So far I've
seen everything from, born in a cab in a traffic jam, to being born in the wreckage of an airplane crash.
By no means take my word for it, look at it for yourself. You WILL be surprised. Far fewer people than I
thought, had a challenged N in their 1st. I would have thought about 1 out of 15 or 20 at the most, since
there's only 12 houses. But it's more like 1 out of 45 or 50!
Maybe somebody should start a thread about showing actual repeated results. You can use anything, likemaybe charts with G in the 3rd house with similar aspects and see if out of 50 charts anyone finds anythingthat suggests a pattern. There seems to be enough people here to provide us with a lot of data........I'm game!
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capricornianaries

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #91 - on: 23.05.2009 at 02:57 [UT+1] »I haven't read all the pages, but anyways...

Posts: 244

I am convinced astrology is accurate, but you can only learn so much from books. Eventually intuition begins
to play a big role as well. You also have to consider the deeper meanings of the symbols, not just the literal
ones. Some methods work better for other people...I don't use progressions as much (except for with synastry
and the composite) because I am better at working with and interpreting transits. Astrology in general is notfor everyone, because you have to be a person with a lot of strange vague intangible variables in mind at once
to look at in issue deeply.
I think a big thing I had to learn was to keep my own desires out of interpretation and prediction, which I had
to learn the hard way. We are all human and probably look at our own charts the most, I know I do! But themore I look at the charts of people I am not personally very involved with the more I am stunned by theaccurarcy, and this just helps me get a beter grasp of the meanings. And progressed synastry has given me apretty unfailing picture of why certain relationship situations turned out the way they do. Astrology has beena very valuable tool to me in life, I don't know what I would do without it. What frustrates me the most is
knowing so feel people (outside of the internet) who actually practice it...

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capricornianaries
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #92 - on: 23.05.2009 at 03:20 [UT+1] »Also, I no longer try and predict the exact date of a "transit event." I have seen transit events happen manytimes, but trying to tell when it will happen, there are too many factors. The transiting outer planet will goover the same spot three times, and so many different minor transits could set it off...So what I do, for now, isuse at two degree orb and say to myself, this a logical time frame that the situation will begin to take effectPosts: 244

more obviously. Also, I have found that Jupiter is great planet, but her transits can be sort of blotted out by
major transits from other more hardcore planets. When Chiron was conjuncting my Moon and a major medical
problem surfaced, it made the Jupiter Sun transit pretty irrelevant. Also...even if the transit is from a"benevolent angle" it can still be rough at the time although the positive benefits may not be apparent tilllater. And also, as much as you try, sometimes the meaning is hard to grasp. Neptune hit my descendant a few
years back. It was definitely Neptune but I may never know exactly why.

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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Ex Member« Reply #93 - on: 23.05.2009 at 03:34 [UT+1] »Edgar Cayce gave a reading once that mentioned the human race in percentages of accuracy when it came to
Astrology natal predictions.
He said in effect that 3/4 of the human race can be read fairly accurately especially to help for the career.
And that the remainder was broken down in percentages such as:
20% can be read "somewhat"
05% not at all(note: the percentages may have been 70-20-10) I can't recall exactly)

i like this proportion... in my view 75% of people can be molded in practically any average worker in any
specialty...not the best but any let's say a secretary or electrician average nurse engineer dentist manager...
most of the people dont really have much talent( sort of blank pages with some slight inclinations) where those
5% come from is another question...dont they sent here to inspire those 75% to challenge themselves....
astrolgy has so many layers in it and most of the stuff that's on the surface of course doesnt make any sense...
sun in aries big deal hahahaha moon in cancer... that's not astrology....and most would be lucky to know
only that much.....
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lioninrain
Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #94 - on: 24.05.2009 at 18:14 [UT+1] »I've certainly felt that way too - Wiggle-waggle back & forth with it.
Probably my problem, is that I've tried to apply my standard method of figuring things out to astrology.
Which is, to read just enough to pique my interest, and then observe, calculate, wait, watch, etc., and see formyself. Extraordinarily complicated to do that with astrology, I have found.

Posts: 1554
Gender:Do I just accept as fact any certain astrological explaination? Because it's always been said, because somebody
wrote it down in a book, or stone tablet, or even cave drawing, or because it really is so? Then add all of theendless variations on different viewpoints/takes etc. It really is mind-boggling...at least I have found it so.
I'm certain that in fact, the astronomical bodies do affect us, I'm just not certain that any human person knows
how. There is just too much (in fact, most) about the "above" that we don't know to apply it to the "below" I
think sometimes.
But it is interesting, I'll give you that. But so far, I have not been able to either accept or deny that anyone iseither right or wrong, and have only found a handful of transits that "may" be "on to something"

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Ariel1

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #95 - on: 26.05.2009 at 06:26 [UT+1] »Quote from EarthandAir on 15.05.2009 at 20:29 [UT+1]:
I've been assessing this lately. I've been interested in astrology for many years and I always wanted to study it when I was young, but I
never had access to the right teachers or materials back in the day pre-internet. But when I found this forum I really dove in.
Mostly my results are unimpressive. Pluto is supposed to be on my ascendant -- I can tell you what I've been thinking about and someone

Posts: 926
Gender:could say these things are "plutonian" but I generally think a lot of thoughts like this. I'm convinced I married the wrong guy ( remarried,
actually) but the astrology says we're really well matched. Progressed venus is supposed to be on my MC, meaning great career things
should happen -- nothing. 'One thing that really irritates me is that I have saturn in the second house. Basically what every astrology site has said is that I will never
have any money. It's fine to say that to someone if it isn't you, but after a while it's annoying. What do you mean -- *never*?
*Never*???? I have money in the bank right now, does this not count? I just started my own business, should I resolve that it will failbecause of my birthchart?
I have Saturn retrograde, which is supposed to mean that my father was absent from my life. Well, he was -- he died. But a retrogradecondition for Saturn is common -- are we to suppose that everyone born with a retrograde Saturn had a "missing father"? That's a lot of
people.
I have been debating about whether to look into tertiary progressions to see if there are short-term real results from those types oftransits. Mostly I don't think I'm much of a Libra, very much of a Capricorn ( my rising sign), *too* much of a Scorpio. I especially hate
this idea: if you don't have lots of Gemini planets, you won't ever be a successful writer, and other limiting concepts like that.
I dunno, it may be that you just outgrow needing to be told your destiny, and instead want to decide it for yourself.

Saturn in the 2nd doesn't necessarily mean that you'll never have any money. It may just mean that you arevery conservative with finances. Prince Charles had Saturn in the 2nd.
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Lindac7

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #96 - on: 26.05.2009 at 07:03 [UT+1] »In my earlier years first learning astrology, I was aghast to discover I had G in the 2nd and what that meant(in and of itself).
However, time went on and I realized that having D conjunct and E, C and F sextile to it were all helpful.
Even the trine from O has sometimes been helpful, but most of the time it's just thrown my finances into
temporary turmoil (as O is more prone to do).
Since I am self-taught and just pick up things here and there when I can, my astrological knowledge is spottyat best, so whenever I've seriously questioned the validity of astrology, it has caused me to realize that the true
problem is I simply don't know it well enough to be able to test it.
Posts: 2029
Gender:Once that realization hits, I then wonder how much more time and effort I want to put into learning it, knowing
how much more I need to learn in order to find out certain things from it. Every time, the answer is there is
too much more I need to learn and not enough time, so I'll just take from it what I can and make my own
decisions beyond that. Over the course of the 38 years it's been so far, I've learned time and time again that
there is definitely truth in astrology, but finding it sometimes takes a lot of work, and my energies have been so
scattered, I just simply haven't had the time and/or energy.
It's wonderful to come here and get help and guidance from others who know so much more, and I've learned
a TON from being here.

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Alice Portman

Member

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #97 - on: 27.05.2009 at 01:14 [UT+1] »Quote from Lindac7 on 26.05.2009 at 07:03 [UT+1]:
In my earlier years first learning astrology, I was aghast to discover I had

Posts: 2541
Gender:G in the 2nd and what that meant (in and of itself).

I don't know when the 'Saturn in the 2nd house gives poverty' myth started. It doesn't. I did a quick search
on my computer for people with Saturn conjunct the 2nd cusp and came up with Richard Murdoch (the media
mogul), Princess Diana and Jacqueline Kennedy-Onassis amongst many others. I used the Koch house system,
but am sure I would find many more if I used other house systems.
In fact, this combination is one that tends to give wealth as the person feels they never have enough money orare very frightened of poverty. They will use all their skills to obtain what they need.
It is more likely that South Node conjunct 2nd cusp would tend to give a lack of money as this combination candrain it away.
Alice

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Lindac7

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Member« Reply #98 - on: 27.05.2009 at 01:53 [UT+1] »Thanks for your insight, Alice!
My original impression of Saturn in the 2nd was that money would always be hard to come by - not necessarily
that I would always be poor, though that was obviously implied as a possibility, too.
So far, the 'poverty' part did ring true for me throughout my childhood - as a result of my parents divorcing
when I was 5 and growing up with only my mother who never remarried, we never had much of anythingmaterially, but once I left home and started working, I've always been 'in the black', but never had a lot. I've
always had to work hard to stay ahead financially, so now in retrospect, I look at G in the 2nd as meaning
you'll have to work for it, and hard lessons about money will be learned.
Posts: 2029
Gender:

It is also true that I've never felt I had 'enough' money, and I do NOT want to ever be completely without, forsure - so over the years I've learned frugality, saving for the future, buying only what I need, and how to buy
the things I want for less money. I definitely feel that I've used all my skills to obtain what I need. I've also
learned the value in being thankful for what I have, and not focusing so much on what I don't have. In thisway, I feel I have very much 'lived' what Saturn in the 2nd means (at least in my chart with all the otheraspects I have to it).

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Das Stavrou

Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS

Ex Member« Reply #99 - on: 27.05.2009 at 01:58 [UT+1] »I generally read as if planets are the inner workings of the psychology rather than a fixed occurence, ourapplication to life so to speak. Statements such as the 'Saturn in the 2nd house gives poverty' stuff, quite
rightly described as myth. I find it disempowering and fear mongering to see it as a statement of inevitability.
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Timothy Moore
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Re: I'm starting to think astrology is BS« Reply #100 - on: 27.05.2009 at 02:07 [UT+1] »Yeah, I don't agree with the Saturn in the 2nd myth either. It can represent many things other than poverty.
Saturn in the 2nd can just as well mean, that there maybe a focus or concentration(Saturn) on earning
capacity, and just as well mean that a person may possess traditional and conservative(Saturn) values(2nd).
Depending on the aspects to that 2nd House Saturn, it could also indicate with "hard" aspects; limitations on
resources, or a rigid and stern value system.

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