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Pet Peeves... ARRRGH.... (Read 450 times)

fireball2000
MemberPet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« on: 16.09.2009 at 02:38 [UT+1] »This happened Sunday.
My career is having trouble taking off. My work history looks like swiss cheese and my last good gig was last

Posts: 86

year. The team got outsourced to China, so I had to get another contract. That contract expired in May and I
have been in limbo (unemployed) since.
As a result, I have trouble answering the question "so what do you do?" by people of my church. I'm not avery outgoing church member and I don't really care to make friends with the other members. However, whensomeone was kind enough to offer a ride (as opposed to me riding the bus) I didn't turn it down.
We start the conversation about a lesson I had given two weeks ago. Part of that lesson was a survey I gaveout. I mentioned that I had tallied the results but said that I didn't really know what to do with them. She
flippantly told me to "use the results to set goals". As the conversation continued I talked about what I do andthe kind of contracts I get, and also the project I'm working on at home. I mentioned that I have beenprocrastinating working on this project (I didn't tell her it's due to insomnia). So she very quickly told mesome anti-procrastination tip that I didn't ask for.
Unsolicited advice really bothers me. People tell me that advice is given out of "caring" or whatever but I think
it's just people getting off on themselves. The problem gets compounded because I am very careful about
giving advice; but for some reason that gets interpreted as being "uncaring". I AM caring. I'm just recognizethat I'm not usually in a position to solve other people's problems, and even if I were, they probably wouldn't
want me solving them anyway.
Maybe it's just that I expect more from members of my church. Our church preaches perfection, but I am not
perfect, and I'd like to think I'm not alone in being not perfect. I don't mean to pick on this one person, but it
seems par for the course in our church to present ourselves as perfect and superior at all times, especially toother members. You must not talk about being less than perfect, lest you be chastened.
I just hate it. I can only imagine how many more people would go to church if we were more open about being
less than perfect.
I suppose I could show my chart, which might indicate a hatred for this sort of thing. I personally believe the
G in f has a lot to do with it.

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dog8818

Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #1 - on: 16.09.2009 at 10:07 [UT+1] »Well not to mention no Leo likes to hear all that "advice"....
I hate "well meaning prosthelytizers" (sp? too lazy to look up) too and have adopted this response.
"Oh." "Really." "Fascinating." while daydreaming any ol' daydream I want, the point is to just get the heckout of there mentally so I don't get so agitated that I can't sleep at night, tossing and turning over theiraudacity.

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zippyMember

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #2 - on: 17.09.2009 at 16:20 [UT+1] »Sometimes people just need to "vent" and others don't realize it and try to "help" in ways they just really may
not understand the scope of the situation. What's kind of funny is that I usually see this in women talking tomen, not usually so much coming from a woman.

Posts: 8143

From your chart I see very little Air and very little Earth. ALOT of Fire. So, you could have somecommunication problems, and with C in e (Fire) well, you communicate in a e Fiery way. And with J n B &E o B, your relationships with people can be difficult. O o A/D can cause relationship issues also, it does
not indicate stability. Very little Earth also shows a lacking of stability, "grounded-ness" and practibility. N in
the 7th shows the need of healing through relationships.
But I don't mean to undermine your gripe. It is understandable, but one with a lot of Fire can have thetendency to "burn out". And I do agree with what Dog8818 said, try to let it slide off your shoulder.

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Karen Roland

Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #3 - on: 17.09.2009 at 18:08 [UT+1] »I am sooooo with you in hating unsolicited advice. This is particularly an issue in my close relationships,
perhaps because of the men I tend to pick.
I like to talk through my problems and issues with loved ones... NOT because I want them to solve myproblems but often just to shed my day at work and unwind from stress.
My ex partners have ALL without fail given me advice on how they would solve the problem and it drives meround the twist.
Posts: 345
Gender:I have a lot of earth in my chart and very little water. My whole chart is based on being practical and pragmatic.
I think it may be down to my very independent personality (e asc?)

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fireball2000
Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #4 - on: 17.09.2009 at 18:31 [UT+1] »I acknowledge, and thank, the responses so far.
I just don't find giving advice to be very uplifting unless the person I'm talking to is desperate for it. If I give

Posts: 86

unsolicited advice it's usually because I'm angry at the person I'm giving it to; not because I'm trying to help
them. It's not an uplifting measure.
I think it happens more often from men to women because it is a power grab, and for some reason men like toassert their power when women are involved. I just happen to believe that there are better ways todemonstrate your power than to exploit opportunities to push others down. Unfortunately, people who havegained power by doing this tend to disagree, asserting that pushing people around is the "loving" thing to do.
Compound this with the charge in our church to be more "loving". It just makes me barf. Le sigh....

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now here

Ex Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #5 - on: 17.09.2009 at 20:13 [UT+1] »Hi fireball2000,
It seems that people have so much advice to give because not using it themselves they usually have an excess
on hand, lol.

One of my own pet peeves could be the notion that communication between astrologers must be peppered withastrological footnotes so as to confer the proper academic references for one's comments as justification. This
sometimes tedious routine may have one feeling like they are doing a high school book report many years after
the fact - hence this purely prosaic sans-glyph rebellion!
The following (building on what dog8818 and zippy said), is 100% from your chart:
It may be a question of philosophical orientation. If you view these events as factual intrusions into yourpersonal space/integrity there could always be "trouble", at least perceived as such.
But if you can magnanimously accept their advice (no matter how crappy or inappropriate) as an expression of
their love (no matter how distorted) as a valid reality, that is not necessarily criticism or power projection (evenif it is), this will not compromise you in any way whatsoever. What harm could there be?
If you can expand your heart to include, even embrace within it these things - those people with all theirdistorted incomplete imperfect expressions no matter how imperfect they seem to be, instead of blocking andresisting on a personal "factual item" basis, you have done them a great service by accepting their own
individual personal validity. AND - this still does not ever mean you have to UTILIZE what they say - ever. Thatis an entirely different issue which is totally your own business. Just smile and say thank you! This activity
generates love and expansion - positive energy, not resistance. Isn't it interesting that love and acting are so
closely intertwined?
Not only that, but...
By simply accepting the reality (and validity in principle) of their offering (and attempting to transcend theperceived annoyance of it), you can actually by virtue of this gain an insight into their unique nature as
stimulated and revealed by your participation/interaction with them.

nh

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Ed Falis
Ex Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #6 - on: 17.09.2009 at 21:01 [UT+1] »Good stuff, NH.

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fireball2000

Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #7 - on: 18.09.2009 at 05:15 [UT+1] »Quote from now here on 17.09.2009 at 20:13 [UT+1]:
It may be a question of philosophical orientation. If you view these events as factual intrusions into your personal space/integrity there
could always be "trouble", at least perceived as such.

Posts: 86

Actually, it's more of an emotional orientation. That is, I prefer to be treated with respect as opposed to being
treated as a whipping-boy.
Quote from now here on 17.09.2009 at 20:13 [UT+1]:
But if you can magnanimously accept their advice (no matter how crappy or inappropriate) as an expression of their love (no matter how
distorted) as a valid reality, that is not necessarily criticism or power projection (even if it is), this will not compromise you in any way
whatsoever. What harm could there be?

I suppose I could dump toxic waste all over your front lawn, too. I mean, if you could magnanimously accept
what I'm doing, what harm could there be?
Quote from now here on 17.09.2009 at 20:13 [UT+1]:
If you can expand your heart to include, even embrace within it these things - those people with all their distorted incomplete imperfect
expressions no matter how imperfect they seem to be, instead of blocking and resisting on a personal "factual item" basis, you have done
them a great service by accepting their own individual personal validity. AND - this still does not ever mean you have to UTILIZE what
they say - ever. That is an entirely different issue which is totally your own business. Just smile and say thank you! This activity generates
love and expansion - positive energy, not resistance. Isn't it interesting that love and acting are so closely intertwined?
Not only that, but...
By simply accepting the reality (and validity in principle) of their offering (and attempting to transcend the perceived annoyance of it),you can actually by virtue of this gain an insight into their unique nature as stimulated and revealed by your participation/interaction withthem.

I believe I could just flip some kind of switch in my brain that says "you are offended by this". The part thatsays "this matters to you". I mean, it's not like my ability to come up with solutions and live life is really thatimportant anyway, right?
See, you could learn to just not get offended by anything at all. A very transcendent view. However, there
comes a point in one's life where they need to express and address the things that offend them. A need to be"not passive".
Equality is very important to me. I have just as much right to exist in this world as anyone else, and I have aright to my viewpoints just like everyone else. I have a right to get angry about things and I have a right tochoose who will be my friends. I'm merely stating that this is one of my criteria; if you want to be friends withme, you will not do what this person did on Sunday.
What you are suggesting is very rational. However, it would involve trading things that I value for things that I
do not. In this instance, I would need to exchange a tendency to uplift others by giving them unconditional
support (something I value) for a tendency to treat others like idiots by giving them unsolicited advice(something I do not). I repeat: I do not value a tendency to give unsolicited advice to others. You're asking
me to choose value something I do not value.
You suggest that I don't have to interpret their actions as "treating me like an idiot", which I don't. However,to appreciate (albeit loathsomely) their actions I would have to, as you put it, act like a friend. Being treatedas though I must act like a friend, rather than acting in a way that demonstrates I know how to actually be afriend, is what I find offensive.
This is why I do not value giving unsolicited advice.
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judyanne
Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #8 - on: 19.09.2009 at 10:55 [UT+1] »I needed to read this so thank you for posting this topic.
Now here, I like what you said. Personally I don't enjoy the adrenal rush from anger and would like to choose
my battles more wisely.
I have no air in my chart.

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IP LoggedZalgradis

Ex Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #9 - on: 19.09.2009 at 16:08 [UT+1] »I dont think any of us like to be preached to, you can sense when it's done out of care and when it's done outof a love of being right and telling others their problems.
The real deal is how you respond to it and it quite evidently pisses you off. Used to for me as well but then irealised that i was valuing myself through them, when i realised they meant nothing to me the anger
disappeared.
So looking through your chart i see that Chiron is in taurus in your 7th. Though i dont think this is directly
responsible for the issue you raise it contributes, it'd predisposed for physical acceptance in which chiron makes
the native feel as though he/she has none, with scorpio rising and uranus opposite chiron it will also give you abullshit detector. Uranus opposite Chiron is the "i dont need help" aspect. I have the aspect myself andsomething flares within me when someone believes they can solve my problem as if i am lesser. In actuality
Uranus is making me feel that way through the opposition. Chiron gives us incredible sensitivity where it lies
and a predispositon to feeling helpless/weak.
Uranus opposing complicates those matters because Chiron is meant to be operating that way. Uranus says, noi dont need your advice i'm not stupid. I'm still working through it myself, learning to accept advice and help
while teaching myself the chiron lesson that i can be helped and it is not a weakness.
I dont know if my experience can help but here it is for you.
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now hereEx Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #10 - on: 20.09.2009 at 23:26 [UT+1] »Hi Ed,
Hi judyanne,Thank you.
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now here

Ex Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #11 - on: 20.09.2009 at 23:29 [UT+1] »Hi fireball2000,
fireball2000 Quote:
Actually, it's more of an emotional orientation. That is, I prefer to be treated with respect as opposed to being treated as a whipping-boy.

Ok, emotional orientation - that's reasonable. Being treated with respect - I've seen 'respect' characterized as"the highest form of fear", and believe there may be something to that, at least as a consideration. In any case,everyone would like to be treated well by others, but sometimes people simply do not conform to our
expectations of what that means to us. The question then becomes: What is the strategy for dealing with thatsituation?
As to being "treated as a whipping-boy", that's a rather harsh characterization don't you think, for someone
who offered you a ride and attempted to help you - even if naive, awkward, or outright condescending; even if
they may have offered the ride in order to get a "captive audience"? In accepting the ride you took a risk
which does not necessarily imply or guarantee conformity to your expectations during any subsequentinteraction. That's the risk you took. We do this, everyone of us, all day long with all interactions. Even
answering the doorbell...
I do understand how annoying it can be sometimes - the condescending, the captive audience thing. Like when
I am busy at home and the doorbell rings, I interrupt what i am doing to answer the door, and it is 2 complete
strangers telling me that they are here to tell me that I need them to tell me how I don't have a spiritual life,
and then i tell them I do have a spiritual life, and then even though they don't have any idea what that entails
they tell me it is not the "right" one (according to their values) and they proceed like mindless compassionlessautomatons to "sell" me their version of "truth" having no regard for me as a real human being with a soul who
has just responded to their inquiry in a meaningful way. To them I am an object for their projection - a way forthem to avoid the difficult proposition of their own spiritual search by dumping it on me. According to thisevaluation, I simply tell them in a friendly way that by my values they seem arrogant, intrusive, unresponsive,not very spiritual, and I tell them why - if they are even willing to listen. Usually not, as once they identify an
intractable heathen, they flee to the next potential convert - my next door neighbor. I politely thank them forpraying for me (because I am going to burn in hell for eternity) and tell them I am busy and have to return towhat I was doing, goodbye, and have a nice day. I don't think they are whipping me even if they are a pain in
the ass. It's just a part of their religious beliefs (according to their standard) to be rude and condescending (myperception according to my values) like this, so there they are at my house sharing their 'light', their religion
with me, a Godless heathen, because without a heretic to whip, they can't otherwise have a relationship with
God themselves. It seems that a large part of the religion as practiced is actually based on this kind of
projection. I don't go for it myself, but that's their choice...
So I get what you are saying in principle about the whipping-boy thing - I really do. But beyond that it seems
there may be issues with response strategies so I want to explore that because that is where imo the anger iscoming from - not the fact that people can be imperfect p.i.t.a. sometimes.
The point is, if i allow myself to get angry at this then I'm in big trouble because any day in any life is filledwith HUNDREDS of these intrusions that are potentially of the same "annoying character" - and those are justthe external ones. If you factor in the internal self-generated ones (and in some philosophies all of it is selfgenerated anyway), i'm sure it is in the thousands during just one day. Eventually one may opt for "notanswering the door" at all, but then that can make one cynical and not open to the possible opportunity ofmeeting others who may be genuinely spiritual - and not simply a used car or insurance saleperson who got
lost on their way to work! Not to mention that sometimes you may actually need to buy a used car anyway.
fireball2000 Quote:I suppose I could dump toxic waste all over your front lawn, too. I mean, if you could magnanimously accept what I'm doing, what harm
could there be?.
I believe I could just flip some kind of switch in my brain that says "you are offended by this". The part that says "this matters to you". I
mean, it's not like my ability to come up with solutions and live life is really that important anyway, right?

Again, I get your point, but that seems a rather extreme analogy.
Have you considered looking at the quality and level of your responses in terms of being commensurate withthe stimulus?
If I understand correctly, that means you are using an extreme example to say that - what happened to you issomehow an egregious offense to you, that the person who did this is entirely responsible for what they did
including your response(?), and they should figure out how to treat you better without you telling them how
you feel about the interaction? For one thing how are they going to know if you don't tell them you have aproblem with their approach? Secondly why get upset about it whether you decide to tell them or not?
continued...
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now here
Ex Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #12 - on: 20.09.2009 at 23:35 [UT+1] »...continued...

fireball2000 Quote:
See, you could learn to just not get offended by anything at all. A very transcendent view. However, there comes a point in one's life
where they need to express and address the things that offend them. A need to be "not passive".

That's the entire matter at hand isn't it? Address and/or express. Isn't there potential for transcendence in that
too?
Life is activity and interaction with other identities/energies, so this seems reasonable and and also inevitablethat these issues have to be dealt with in some manner. It may mean being more creative about not being"passive" since being "active" and creative can take many forms, including internally.
fireball2000 Quote:Equality is very important to me. I have just as much right to exist in this world as anyone else, and I have a right to my viewpoints justlike everyone else. I have a right to get angry about things and I have a right to choose who will be my friends. I'm merely stating that
this is one of my criteria; if you want to be friends with me, you will not do what this person did on Sunday.

I understand the importance of equality, the right to one's own views, to choose one's friends. However there isa bit of a leap when you say you have a right to be angry - at what? - at the very result of granting equality toothers? There is a disconnect there. Perhaps there is a bit of pride, sensitivity, vulnerability about the work
situation and I can understand that too, not only given your Leo 10, but many are also experiencing this now.
Who said you have to be friends? And if you are already friends, that implies a certain level of mutual disclosure
about issues such as this which would tend towards preserving harmony within the friendship. So if you arefriends, what's preventing you from saying you are uncomfortable about this problem? If not friends and don't
want to be, then why not just move on...
People may have different values, ideals, means - but they can co-exist without the necessity to invalidate eachother or get angry when different values present. We are not discussing being outright attacked, but if you
perceive it that way, according to your original story, then this may indicate an over-reaction and that isevidence that some 'criteria' may need to be re-evaluated.
This is a key issue for fixed signs where the internal orientation remains the same (fixed) while life
'circumstance' changes** - sometimes presenting a seemingly insurmountable conflict with the fixedinternal values. (Sometimes this fixity can work to advantage too, as in endurance, control, executive ability,
will to affect change in the world, etc.) What happens often is that failing any ability or attempt to "control"
outside reality (people/places/things) to be "in line" with the values, ideals, needs - frustration may result,followed by the inevitable consequence: anger, and then resentment of who/whatever "did this to you".
Values==>expectation of fulfilment==>frustration upon not happening==>anger==>resentment.
What the fixed person may need to realize is that they can maintain their fixed orientation and still widen thecircumference generated by their central focus. In many cases this simply means allowing others the same
freedom, creative personal risk, self-worth, and gratification, etc., that one may want for oneself.
This preserves the integrity of fixed purpose and value while also allowing the same for others = equality. By
this expansion, one may remove the false notion of mutual exclusivity frequently seen as a requisite for this
proposition, ie: If you are getting what you want it means I can't get what I want, and vice versa. Or, I have a
set of values. If you don't have the same ones, you are threatening to me, my identity.
**(mutable orientation is inverse - constant external change and conflict which must be met with flexibility andadaptation as self-giving, self-searching)
So you have a situation presented by another that is offensive to you.
What is "offensive" might be perceived as a "conflict" in 2 ways, internally and externally:
1) fixed internal values may become an expectation (implicit or explicit demand) of what you want in order tobe comfortable, self-actualized, etc. (internal energetics). If what is 'presented' is not part of that value system,
it is then seen as a "conflict". You get in the car and someone says something that offends you. It is offensive
precisely because there is an expectation that people should reflect your own values and that is not always
going to happen. Therefore, any expectation that they must conform to your own values creates the possibility
for frustration when they don't.
Possible solution: Try to diminish expectation of what others/the world must embody and present to you. This
will diminish perceived conflict. No unpleasant surprises that elicit unpleasant reactions - but you might besurprised what you find out about them. Note that releasing this expectation about others does not require thealtering of your own values.
...continued...
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Ex Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #13 - on: 20.09.2009 at 23:41 [UT+1] »...continued...
2) related to #1, also because of fixed orientation, in terms of relating to others (external to self) there may
be a further defensive reaction that comes from the need to "protect" the internal values from "intrusion" of the"conflict" which can be seen as threatening to one's own identity based on those fixed values.
Possible solution: recognize that any interaction is provisional and negotiable regardless of orientation - fixed orotherwise. You are not required to change your values or principles just because you want to negotiate theintentions, rules, means, goals of any interaction/relationship. If this negotiation doesn't work (i.e.- someone's
entire intention is to forcefully arbitrarily change your values as a power play) accordingly you may decide toterminate the interaction. If you can't do that, then you have to re-enter negotiation or come up with creative
coping strategies.
If you value equality like you say then surely you can accord the same validity to someone else's values and free
will to express them provisionally in any interaction with yourself. Once again, the provisional part means you
do not have to use any of it even if you accept their values which may be different from yours. Its fair andequal on that level, even if the content they provide through that equality is not your own choice for your own
life. The rest comes down to a choice of participation and how that gets accomplished and why - all of which is
subject to revision at any time - especially if you have an interest or necessity in continuing any relationship orinteraction (as in friendship) - or if you just want to be civil and/or undisturbed by people's variance from yourown values.
Much depends on an evaluation of the relationship in terms of context, intention, and what is appropriate given
those factors: Eg:, for a stranger: "Oh, I haven't thought of it that way", "Thank you for offering thatsuggestion." "I appreciate your concern. I have to think about it.", "Thanks for offering but there is a lot you
aren't aware of that makes it difficult to discuss now", "I'm not sure given that we just met that I'm
comfortable talking about this further, but I appreciate your concern." If people are rude and persistent there
are other rules, "I just want you to know that I view your persistence as a bit intrusive even if you are wellintentioned", "Please give me some space, this is too much for me to digest now", etc. For a friend still
different "rules" may apply, "Hey, f---off pal, if you ever bring that up again i'll kick your sorry ass!" Different
rules may apply in different contexts. Like the Persian(?) saying goes, "A stone from a friend is better than anapple from an enemy", etc.
The important thing is that in almost every case, and however it is acheived, it is beneficial to preserve
harmony both internal and external. In some systems of thought harmony means equality. What harmony does
and why it is valued is that it allows for continuation of opportunity leading to satisfaction, whereas anger andother negatives tend to inhibit opportunity leading to frustration. Unfortunately, many end up using anger as a
final wake-up call, motivator, activator when all else either fails or is neglected previously, consciously or
unconsciously. Imo, this is a far less productive way. Also the presense of anger itself is often an indicatorthat something is being neglected and needs urgent examination.
fireball2000 Quote:
What you are suggesting is very rational. However, it would involve trading things that I value for things that I do not. In this instance, I
would need to exchange a tendency to uplift others by giving them unconditional support (something I value) for a tendency to treat
others like idiots by giving them unsolicited advice (something I do not). I repeat: I do not value a tendency to give unsolicited advice toothers. You're asking me to choose value something I do not value.

Valuing the upliftment of others by "unconditional support" means accepting them for who they are - thats the"unconditional" part.
I'm wondering how this is consistent or not with your dissatisfaction of their interaction with you, and how
rather than respecting/validating them (equality) by telling them how you feel, you would rather bottle it up
and be frustrated and angry? Again, it may be a perfectly valid, civil, reasonable thing to not tell them, thus
attempting to preserve external harmony, but if that causes internal disharmony, then it means you are nottaking responsibility in some way and that has to be looked into.
As discussed above, you don't have to change your values, rather just expand the notion of keeping themintact regardless of others' values by allowing them the same. The rest is about interaction and communicationand that is potentially negotiable. Just because you choose to discuss for instance, how you would prefer to betreated, doesn't make you an idiot or a hypocrit, nor does it make them one either - it is just a negotiationof an open ended provisional circumstance that you have a right to participate in or not, by you own
free will - and even if they don't agree or oblige you, you can still "walk away" - from them, or from theexpectation of their conformity.
...continued...
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dog8818
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Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #14 - on: 20.09.2009 at 23:48 [UT+1] »[quote author=now here link=1253065126/0#11 date=1253485761]I've seen 'respect' characterized as "thehighest form of fear", [quote](((scratching head)))What? Please explain this line of thought. I had a dad who, when he would "lose it" and beat us when we were
kids, would yell "If I can't make you respect me, I'll make you FEAR ME!" (yep, it worked....we were skeered ofhim all right....) and ironically, he had a Mars/Moon square, and a Pluto/Moon opposition, so perhaps the OP isattracting this energy of "power over" and sublimating a whole lot of personal power. The "well meaning
advice" could be coming at you to get you in touch with your own boundary issues and underlying anger but
Posts: 2645
Gender:it's just a guess. As fireball stated anger itself is often an indicator that something is being neglected andneeds urgent examination
I have a pluto/mars natal square and confrontation terrifies me. In-person confrontation. I have no air in mychart and Saturn in Sag. Therefore I attract very opinionated people in order to help me grow.
I don't believe we have to "thank" people for their unsolicited advice. I think that would be ME pushing MY
anger down under the guise of being "nice", something that I really need to stop doing when it's hypocritical.
Even my favorite saying "well, bless your heart" is thinly veiled sarcasm and therefore kinda snarky. Sue me.

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now hereEx Member

Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #15 - on: 20.09.2009 at 23:49 [UT+1] »..continued...
fireball2000 Quote:...I don't have to interpret their actions as "treating me like an idiot", which I don't. However, to appreciate (albeit loathsomely) theiractions I would have to, as you put it, act like a friend. Being treated as though I must act like a friend, rather than acting in a way that
demonstrates I know how to actually be a friend, is what I find offensive.
This is why I do not value giving unsolicited advice.

There is always the possibility of an implied solicitation when it comes to interacting with people. This is notnecessarily a negative unilateral projection (to you or from you), but simply components of aprovisional and negotiable process that is inherent as a risk within interdependent life. In many cases,
people who present issues that require some "latitude" are acting unconsciously. You have to be creative here,
and have faith in the "bigger picture" which allows for all this to be worked out, quite possibly in and throughyou and your inter-actions with them.
There are very few real "unconditional" friends anyway. Even 'real' friendship is acting to some extent. Most
friends are 2 people who, for one or a few moments in time are able to get something they value from eachother without too many disqualifying prohibitions. Much of life (and what we call love) is acting in this way,different roles we grow into by playing the parts as some unfathomable greater drama unfolds.
-------------------------One more thing:
You are going to come up against these issues a lot, so you may need to experiment with how to deal withthem. When you do this well, you could be extremely successful career-wise. Not only that, you may find thatyour very success depends on your ongoing creative solutions to these problems, and you might even end up
using them productively as part of your work in some way.
----------note: The preceding solicited advice (haha) turned out to be rather long, so apologies for that if it isinconvenient, however I did want to respond thoroughly (even if redundantly in places) to your comments. As
always, I put this out speculatively as an offering - hoping that at least some of it may apply and be useful. If
that turns out not to be the case that is fine too.
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Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #16 - on: 20.09.2009 at 23:54 [UT+1] »[quote author=dog8818 link=1253065126/0#14 date=1253486930][quote author=now here
link=1253065126/0#11 date=1253485761]I've seen 'respect' characterized as "the highest form of fear",
Quote:(((scratching head)))What? Please explain this line of thought. I had a dad who, when he would "lose it" and beat us when we were kids, would yell "If I can't
make you respect me, I'll make you FEAR ME!" (yep, it worked....we were skeered of him all right....) and ironically, he had a Mars/Moonsquare, and a Pluto/Moon opposition, so perhaps the OP is attracting this energy of "power over" and sublimating a whole lot of personal
power. The "well meaning advice" could be coming at you to get you in touch with your own boundary issues and underlying anger but it's
just a guess.

Hi dog8818,
Ideally the dynamics of human relations should be determined by love. When that occurs there is real freedom
for all parties and no coersion real or implied. One could make the case that with "respect" there is a subtle
implication of some negative consequence as a result of not relating to someone as they prefer. This is actuallya subtle form of fear, not love.
When I hear people talk about respect, i cringe. That's for rattlesnakes, not human beings - ideally speaking ofcourse.
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judyanne

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Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #17 - on: 21.09.2009 at 01:49 [UT+1] »Now here:

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Alice Portman
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Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #18 - on: 21.09.2009 at 02:27 [UT+1] »Quote from Karen Roland on 17.09.2009 at 18:08 [UT+1]:
I am sooooo with you in hating unsolicited advice. This is particularly an issue in my close relationships, perhaps because of themen I tend to pick.
I like to talk through my problems and issues with loved ones... NOT because I want them to solve my problems but often just to shed my

Posts: 2541
Gender:day at work and unwind from stress.
My ex partners have ALL without fail given me advice on how they would solve the problem and it drives me round the twist.
I have a lot of earth in my chart and very little water. My whole chart is based on being practical and pragmatic. I think it may be down tomy very independent personality (e asc?)Oh Karen you did make me giggle!
I am the mother of three adult sons and was the wife of a Leo!
I don't think your problem is the males you pick! I have learned that almost all males when faced with aproblem need to solve it, they are hard wired this way. They have a very practical orientation to life and don't
have any comprehension of someone just needing to wind down through discussing or complaining aboutsomething. So if you come to them with a situation they will try to give you advice on how to resolve it and dotheir very best to help you. Eventually they will get the idea if you tell them you just want an ear to listen so
you can wind down. Their brain will make the equation 'solve problem = listening and making comforting
sounds' and they will become quite good at it.
I go to my sons when I have a problem that I can't solve or resolve and get their practical insights, assistanceand advice. Almost always this is excellent.
I go to my female friends when I just want to discuss something that upsets me and get a bit of comfort.
I have one female friend with a large stellium in Aries who is the exception. She will give a series of ideas andadvice on how to solve a problem and usually the ideas are a bit ridiculous as she rarely listens properly tounderstand the situation presented. She can be extraordinarily annoying!
while she comes up with a very good suggestion.
Alice

However, I do listen as once in a

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fireball2000

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Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #19 - on: 21.09.2009 at 05:04 [UT+1] »[quote author=now here link=1253065126/0#16 date=1253487290][quote author=dog8818
link=1253065126/0#14 date=1253486930]Quote from now here on 20.09.2009 at 23:29 [UT+1]:
I've seen 'respect' characterized as "the highest form of fear", Quote:

Posts: 86(((scratching head)))What? Please explain this line of thought. I had a dad who, when he would "lose it" and beat us when we were kids, would
yell "If I can't make you respect me, I'll make you FEAR ME!" (yep, it worked....we were skeered of him all right....) andironically, he had a Mars/Moon square, and a Pluto/Moon opposition, so perhaps the OP is attracting this energy of "powerover" and sublimating a whole lot of personal power. The "well meaning advice" could be coming at you to get you in touchwith your own boundary issues and underlying anger but it's just a guess.

Hi dog8818,
Ideally the dynamics of human relations should be determined by love. When that occurs there is real freedom for all parties and nocoersion real or implied. One could make the case that with "respect" there is a subtle implication of some negative consequence as aresult of not relating to someone as they prefer. This is actually a subtle form of fear, not love.
When I hear people talk about respect, i cringe. That's for rattlesnakes, not human beings - ideally speaking of course.

@nhYour three page long post:
tl;drHowever, I did want to say something about "love". What I've found is that love just works via acceptance orrejection. That is, love adds adoration to acceptance and adds pity to rejection. So love really is a two-edged
sword.
Preaching, as it were, is just a sign that the person is rejecting you. I like feeling pitied about as much as thenext guy, so to say that that person is doing it out of love is just not something I can accept.
I guess another reason I don't like the preaching is because if you want to help someone, you, um, just help
them. You ask if there is anything you can do to help. If you can see something you can do, you just do it.
Advice is at best something you give when you don't want to handle their problems at best, and at worst you
are actively trying to add to the problem.
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Re: Pet Peeves... ARRRGH....
« Reply #20 - on: 21.09.2009 at 06:18 [UT+1] »Hi fireball2000,
fireball2000 Quote:Your three page long post:
tl;drNot a problem.
If the pages were half the size it would be double the amount of pages!
At any rate, i enjoyed the opportunity, so thank you.

fireball2000 Quote:
However, I did want to say something about "love". What I've found is that love just works via acceptance or rejection. That is, love adds
adoration to acceptance and adds pity to rejection. So love really is a two-edged sword.
Preaching, as it were, is just a sign that the person is rejecting you. I like feeling pitied about as much as the next guy, so to say that that
person is doing it out of love is just not something I can accept.

Then maybe you could follow your own wisdom and add adoration to your acceptance?
Rejection could be one way to characterize it,
but that too seems a bit harsh as rejection may imply indifference.
Even if their effort is misguided there is still some conduit available to work with.
Also, this may not necessarily be from pity. It could be from a similar origin though - their own pride (a very
insidious quality) - coupled with a misinterpretion of what is needed and actualized from an insufficient capacity.
There is definitely some element of condescension there in any case. After that it could just be inexperience,but people change, grow and evolve, and love can facilitate that - in both directions - giving and receiving.
fireball2000 Quote:
I guess another reason I don't like the preaching is because if you want to help someone, you, um, just help them. You ask if there isanything you can do to help. If you can see something you can do, you just do it. Advice is at best something you give when you don't
want to handle their problems at best, and at worst you are actively trying to add to the problem

Well, fireball2000, we all don't like a lot of things for a lot of reasons. Question is then, what to do about it?
Some people fortunately or unfortunately just think that is the best way to help, bless their heart (thx 4 that
dog8818)- ie: Don't give him a fish, but "teach him how to fish". Like mentioned before, it may depend on thecontext, and that may determine how much "latitude" to allow people because they may (God forbid/God
forgive) misinterpret/misapply accordingly.
It sounds like the person in your story was just giving you some pointers on fishing (whether they know how ornot) which might sound out of place if you are not actually trying to catch a fish.
Yes, they could ask.
But also, you could tell.
It could just be something to talk about in the car on the way home from church...

best wishes going forward,nh
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