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Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective? (Read 1010 times)

rebirthcuspianMemberPisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« on: 15.02.2015 at 18:53 [UT] »Hello again
I recently had a thought roll along of a possible new way for me to think of l/I/12H and I wanted to throw it
Posts: 330

out there to see if there's any validity to it. It occurred to me that maybe that energy is of the Collective. In
evolutionary astrology, I take it this can be thought of as "Source", but in a psychological way, concerning allthat is not conscious?
To me, it would explain the reflective qualities of the energy- why people can feel like they see themselves
through another person, and the details of that reflection can be things they don't want to acknowledge. It
would certainly account for the overwhelming/disorienting feelings it creates, the hypersensitivity (HSP types)
to all energies it connects with, and the high levels of empathy and compassion. I'm sure this isn't a new idea,
but I hear and read too often insights to Pisces that don't seem to "get it". They focus too much on the
mystery, intrigue, and desolation. That's the more classical view of it, anyway. Are there modern takes on Piscesthat suggests that it is directly linked to the Collective? If that is so, what happens to that constantdaydreaming? Should those with that link be mindful? Are they unintentionally sowing seeds in the Collective
to be manifested by anyone who acknowledges it?
I ask this, because I have noticed increasingly that my daydreams manifest. I have noticed it more so recently,
or maybe it has always been that way, and I was not knowing of it? I don't know, but it made me see Piscesdifferently. What do you guys think?

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mistycharm

Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #1 - on: 22.02.2015 at 12:14 [UT] »Pisces is a cold sign (warmth connects with love), supposed to be tranquil, while tranquility is when you're freefrom heightened emotions (free from being an HSP) and also when you dream, it means your mind is active(fiery). This to me (logically) would make Pisces the least sensitive. But where does it get the sensitivity
connection?

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Ex Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #2 - on: 23.02.2015 at 11:48 [UT] »Quote from Pyraminå on 22.02.2015 at 12:14 [UT]:
Pisces is a cold sign (warmth connects with love), supposed to be tranquil, while tranquility is when you're free from heightened emotions(free from being an HSP) and also when you dream, it means your mind is active (fiery). This to me (logically) would make Pisces theleast sensitive. But where does it get the sensitivity connection?

Sorry to debunk this Pyramina but you have obviously had some bad experiences with Pisces. as a 12th house

A,D, asc, the last thing anyone would ever say about me is that I am cold or not sensitive. Im curious as towhat you think is warm and sensitive. ALL the fish i have as friends are the kindest, generous of their time andemotional support, often lacking boundaries to say no and often needing time out to recharge. Not somethinga cold insensitive person would do. You might change your thinking to the fact that many sensitive people do
not know how to speak up when less sensitives judge or take advantage so they withdraw to their own world - avery safe place for them and if you scratch their surface a little you will be surprised at their depth.
I might add this comment sounds like a form of projection on your part.
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sewitEx Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #3 - on: 23.02.2015 at 12:06 [UT] »Quote from rebirthcuspian on 15.02.2015 at 18:53 [UT]:Hello againlI

I recently had a thought roll along of a possible new way for me to think of/ /12H and I wanted to throw it out there to see if there's
any validity to it. It occurred to me that maybe that energy is of the Collective. In evolutionary astrology, I take it this can be thought ofas "Source", but in a psychological way, concerning all that is not conscious?
To me, it would explain the reflective qualities of the energy- why people can feel like they see themselves through another person, andthe details of that reflection can be things they don't want to acknowledge. It would certainly account for the overwhelming/disorienting
feelings it creates, the hypersensitivity (HSP types) to all energies it connects with, and the high levels of empathy and compassion. I'msure this isn't a new idea, but I hear and read too often insights to Pisces that don't seem to "get it". They focus too much on the
mystery, intrigue, and desolation. That's the more classical view of it, anyway. Are there modern takes on Pisces that suggests that it isdirectly linked to the Collective? If that is so, what happens to that constant daydreaming? Should those with that link be mindful? Arethey unintentionally sowing seeds in the Collective to be manifested by anyone who acknowledges it?
I ask this, because I have noticed increasingly that my daydreams manifest. I have noticed it more so recently, or maybe it has always
been that way, and I was not knowing of it? I don't know, but it made me see Pisces differently. What do you guys think?

Rebirth these comments are very relevant in my case and even now at nearing 70, I still have an unclear idea of
who I am on a physical level. By spending much time on self reflection and delving into the mysteries of life,
much to the antagonism of family and people I thought were friends, I have some pretty clear insights whichcome to me in the form of dreams and 'gut' feeling which of course many people laugh at, however I listen tothese things more and more as over time they have proved to be more accurate than so called logic. I need noone these days but choose to have those in my life who resonate kindness and honesty. Trust in life is a
powerful armour.
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mistycharm
Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #4 - on: 23.02.2015 at 13:28 [UT] »I would like to understand the logic of why Pisces is associated with being sensitive, since as I mentioned mylogic already. (it's a cold sign, tranquil). Also, see below, if you want to make a fish/human comparison. It's thesame logic I mentioned.
The Call of the Sea
Mermaids are sometimes considered cold hearted beings because the Call of the Sea is so strong it draws the
Mermaid away from humanity and understanding, but it is said that occasionally their hearts will warm causing
Posts: 1793
Gender:the Mermaid to want more than only the sea; they want a chance to fall in love with a mortal. Some evil beings
will prey on this characteristic and will barter with the Mermaid offering them a chance to find love in exchange
for their immortality.
http://charmedlegacy.wikia.com/wiki/Mermaids
From 'A Witch's Tail', a Charmed episode:Leo: Phoebe, take my hand, I'll orb you back.
Phoebe: Nope. I'm staying in the ocean.
Paige: Okay. Just meet us back at the beach, you swim so fast you'll probably beat us there anyway.
Phoebe: No. I'm staying in the ocean. I'm not going back.
Paige: I don't understand.
Phoebe: Paige, it's everything that Miley said it was. It's complete freedom.
Miley: The call of the sea. It'll turn her heart cold if she lets it.
Leo: Phoebe, get out of the water.
Phoebe: No.
Paige: Phoebe, take my hand.
Phoebe: No!
Paige: Phoebe, fight it.
Phoebe: I don't want to fight it. I just want to be free. (Swims off)
Paige: Phoebe!
http://www.tv.com/m/shows/charmed/a-witchs-tail-1-176177/trivia/

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EnigmeMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #5 - on: 23.02.2015 at 13:36 [UT] »Rose McGowan ie Paige ~ Virgo. Her work when she met the Sisters..Social Worker..tough exterior but tender
hearted to the core.
Oceans etch the shore creating rivers..Pisces rules rivers and trust me. The Rose River water coming off themountains near the Shenandoah parkway; in 100° heat will turn skin blue..

Posts: 5489
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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #6 - on: 24.02.2015 at 02:32 [UT] »Quote from Pyraminå on 23.02.2015 at 13:28 [UT]:
I would like to understand the logic of why Pisces is associated with being sensitive, since as I mentioned my logic already. (it's a cold
sign, tranquil). Also, see below, if you want to make a fish/human comparison. It's the same logic I mentioned.
The Call of the Sea

Posts: 330

Mermaids are sometimes considered cold hearted beings because the Call of the Sea is so strong it draws the Mermaid away fromhumanity and understanding, but it is said that occasionally their hearts will warm causing the Mermaid to want more than only the sea;
they want a chance to fall in love with a mortal. Some evil beings will prey on this characteristic and will barter with the Mermaid offering
them a chance to find love in exchange for their immortality.
http://charmedlegacy.wikia.com/wiki/Mermaids
From 'A Witch's Tail', a Charmed episode:Leo: Phoebe, take my hand, I'll orb you back.
Phoebe: Nope. I'm staying in the ocean.
Paige: Okay. Just meet us back at the beach, you swim so fast you'll probably beat us there anyway.
Phoebe: No. I'm staying in the ocean. I'm not going back.
Paige: I don't understand.
Phoebe: Paige, it's everything that Miley said it was. It's complete freedom.
Miley: The call of the sea. It'll turn her heart cold if she lets it.
Leo: Phoebe, get out of the water.
Phoebe: No.
Paige: Phoebe, take my hand.
Phoebe: No!
Paige: Phoebe, fight it.
Phoebe: I don't want to fight it. I just want to be free. (Swims off)
Paige: Phoebe!
http://www.tv.com/m/shows/charmed/a-witchs-tail-1-176177/trivia/

Pyramina, it honestly doesn't sound to me like you've gone beyond old, Hellenistic takes on that archetype. You
don't seem like someone who has any strong Neptune/12H/l affecting you in your Natal. Have you ever justobserved strong Piscean types- nevermind what classical takes are on that energy! You're sounding too by-thebook, and that's dissociated, at best, and not at all an insight.
To be fair, for anyone out there who does not have a good feel for Piscean energy, it can really be
dumbfounding, frustrating... people really just don't get it. Maybe this is some sort of theme in my life, but I
think people don't get it because self-work is still something our species RUNS from! Most people go their
entire lives not wanting to face themselves, to have to REALLY look in the mirror. There's parts they areashamed of, and immaturely (I'm speaking of the immaturity on the Collective scale, this impacts theindividual, usually without them noticing) try to avoid what is, in fact, THERE that needs WORK. It still isn't
common thought, yet, that mental health has to be worked on, that it's not just some given in life! It's why
most people laugh and say "we're all crazy! In some way..". Well, how many people do we know who reallymake concerted efforts to stand up to what they don't like about their own character, and put work towards
manifesting those energies higher than we're comfortable with?
If you know even one person of strong Piscean influence, on a personal level, you will know that these people
care, A LOT, and are typical HSP types. Being the most empathetic and compassionate of all energies issomething it's known for, pretty much a standard, in fact. That's not to say that they can have a plethora offacades, and even identities, to hide behind. They feel isolated and a longing to dissolve and make ALL one,
unsegmented or bordered in any way. As a social being in a tangible world, this is not an easy way to be. I
haven't come across a lot of actual insight from astrologers, particularly on a mundane level, which I think is aproblem for people learning about astrology. The lack of insight is very noticeable to me.
ANYone strong with this energy will say they FEEL, all the damn time, it is nonstop, and it is on such a large
scale that it can feel overwhelming. We often don't know WHO near us is causing us to feel this way, what ishappening to the Collective, out in the world.. what is that feeling that is brewing? It's always something. That
energy is about service, sacrifice, getting less in return for what is put out, it is healing energy, and emittingthat healing flow does drain us.
I happen to think that there is a Collective, of all life, and it may exceed our own known dimensions ofexistence, though we are only just starting to awaken as a Whole, slowly.. I am noticing that.
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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #7 - on: 24.02.2015 at 02:52 [UT] »Quote from sewit on 23.02.2015 at 12:06 [UT]:
Quote from rebirthcuspian on 15.02.2015 at 18:53 [UT]:Hello again

Posts: 330lI

I recently had a thought roll along of a possible new way for me to think of/ /12H and I wanted to throw it out there
to see if there's any validity to it. It occurred to me that maybe that energy is of the Collective. In evolutionary astrology,
I take it this can be thought of as "Source", but in a psychological way, concerning all that is not conscious?
To me, it would explain the reflective qualities of the energy- why people can feel like they see themselves throughanother person, and the details of that reflection can be things they don't want to acknowledge. It would certainly accountfor the overwhelming/disorienting feelings it creates, the hypersensitivity (HSP types) to all energies it connects with, andthe high levels of empathy and compassion. I'm sure this isn't a new idea, but I hear and read too often insights to Piscesthat don't seem to "get it". They focus too much on the mystery, intrigue, and desolation. That's the more classical viewof it, anyway. Are there modern takes on Pisces that suggests that it is directly linked to the Collective? If that is so, what
happens to that constant daydreaming? Should those with that link be mindful? Are they unintentionally sowing seeds in
the Collective to be manifested by anyone who acknowledges it?
I ask this, because I have noticed increasingly that my daydreams manifest. I have noticed it more so recently, or maybe
it has always been that way, and I was not knowing of it? I don't know, but it made me see Pisces differently. What doyou guys think?

Rebirth these comments are very relevant in my case and even now at nearing 70, I still have an unclear idea of who I am on a physicallevel. By spending much time on self reflection and delving into the mysteries of life, much to the antagonism of family and people I
thought were friends, I have some pretty clear insights which come to me in the form of dreams and 'gut' feeling which of course many
people laugh at, however I listen to these things more and more as over time they have proved to be more accurate than so called logic. I
need no one these days but choose to have those in my life who resonate kindness and honesty. Trust in life is a powerful armour.

Yes! sewit, I know that cozy feeling of two fishies meeting, and hello

What do you think accounts for all thesensitivity, to that absorbent nature of our energy? We soak up all that comes into contact with us, and it feels
as though it's our own. Something happens to someone, and we feel it so crushingly. Have you noticed areflective quality to your interactions with others? As in, most people see you in some projected/disjointed way,
and it is usually them seeing themselves when they see you. I often feel like a walking mirror.
Have you noticed things that you focus your mind towards becoming manifested? I have been working on
keeping my daydreaming in check, and I'm training myself to use positive psychology.. I have trouble
daydreaming of happy, wonderful things for myself, but I have been indulging in daydreaming abouthumankind elevating their cognition. I fantasize about old oppressive orders dying away, socially constructed
inequalities becoming ignorant notions in society.. of shame being called out and rebuked, so that every
individual can work on healing their pains without being called "damaged", or worse, "weak". I feel heightenedawareness on the verge of happening, and hopefully it does in my lifetime! I want to look back when I'm older
and marvel at the strides we made, collectively.
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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #8 - on: 24.02.2015 at 03:08 [UT] »Quote from Pyraminå on 22.02.2015 at 12:14 [UT]:
Pisces is a cold sign (warmth connects with love), supposed to be tranquil, while tranquility is when you're free from heightened emotions(free from being an HSP) and also when you dream, it means your mind is active (fiery). This to me (logically) would make Pisces theleast sensitive. But where does it get the sensitivity connection?

Posts: 330

Have you seen brain scans of people having "spiritual" experiences? These are the people in trancelike states,
they can be speaking in tongues in a church or chanting something in a ritual. It is a state of mind that is
described as spiritual, tranquil, "out-of body", or "out of mind".. very Piscean; I have had these states of being.
Tranquility is not the absence of heightened emotions, it IS a heightened emotion, where peace is abound. Are
you high in air energy, including house placements? This seems like an Airy take on Pisces.

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Ex Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #9 - on: 24.02.2015 at 12:31 [UT] »Quote from rebirthcuspian on 24.02.2015 at 03:08 [UT]:
Quote from Pyraminå on 22.02.2015 at 12:14 [UT]:
Pisces is a cold sign (warmth connects with love), supposed to be tranquil, while tranquility is when you're free fromheightened emotions (free from being an HSP) and also when you dream, it means your mind is active (fiery). This to me(logically) would make Pisces the least sensitive. But where does it get the sensitivity connection?
Have you seen brain scans of people having "spiritual" experiences? These are the people in trancelike states, they can be speaking intongues in a church or chanting something in a ritual. It is a state of mind that is described as spiritual, tranquil, "out-of body", or "out ofmind".. very Piscean; I have had these states of being. Tranquility is not the absence of heightened emotions, it IS a heightened emotion,
where peace is abound. Are you high in air energy, including house placements? This seems like an Airy take on Pisces.

Rebirth, This is a lovely 'take' on the Piscean state and as Im am physically very tired after a big few weeks
physically, I will come back soon after I have absorbed and digested how logic comes into an interpretation of a
Piscean nature. Laptop going in for reformatting so may be a week before Iget back. My response was also
emotion based from the same tired physical state and T DEO all o my natal mars and J 1deg off the
opposition - super sensitive to unwarranted generalised criticism
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sewitEx Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #10 - on: 24.02.2015 at 12:32 [UT] »Quote from Enigme on 23.02.2015 at 13:36 [UT]:
Rose McGowan ie Paige ~ Virgo. Her work when she met the Sisters..Social Worker..tough exterior but tender hearted to the core.
Oceans etch the shore creating rivers..Pisces rules rivers and trust me. The Rose River water coming off the mountains near the
Shenandoah parkway; in 100° heat will turn skin blue..

Bt can this not also be the way the river protects itself
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Ex Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #11 - on: 24.02.2015 at 12:35 [UT] »Quote from Pyraminå on 23.02.2015 at 13:28 [UT]:
I would like to understand the logic of why Pisces is associated with being sensitive, since as I mentioned my logic already. (it's a cold
sign, tranquil). Also, see below, if you want to make a fish/human comparison. It's the same logic I mentioned.
The Call of the Sea
Mermaids are sometimes considered cold hearted beings because the Call of the Sea is so strong it draws the Mermaid away fromhumanity and understanding, but it is said that occasionally their hearts will warm causing the Mermaid to want more than only the sea;
they want a chance to fall in love with a mortal. Some evil beings will prey on this characteristic and will barter with the Mermaid offering
them a chance to find love in exchange for their immortality.
http://charmedlegacy.wikia.com/wiki/Mermaids
From 'A Witch's Tail', a Charmed episode:Leo: Phoebe, take my hand, I'll orb you back.
Phoebe: Nope. I'm staying in the ocean.
Paige: Okay. Just meet us back at the beach, you swim so fast you'll probably beat us there anyway.
Phoebe: No. I'm staying in the ocean. I'm not going back.
Paige: I don't understand.
Phoebe: Paige, it's everything that Miley said it was. It's complete freedom.
Miley: The call of the sea. It'll turn her heart cold if she lets it.
Leo: Phoebe, get out of the water.
Phoebe: No.
Paige: Phoebe, take my hand.
Phoebe: No!
Paige: Phoebe, fight it.
Phoebe: I don't want to fight it. I just want to be free. (Swims off)
Paige: Phoebe!
http://www.tv.com/m/shows/charmed/a-witchs-tail-1-176177/trivia/

this is not reality and mermaids are a figment of imagination. Im tired at the moment Pyramina but wlil getback soon
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mistycharm
Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #12 - on: 24.02.2015 at 12:58 [UT] »Ok.... again.... using the primary symbols connected with the sign (fish, ocean), I don't see how these symbols
connect with being sensitive. I already mentioned how they don't. I'm just curious though, so no big deal if it's
too hard to explain in a way that I will understand. If you truly could empathize with me and my train ofthought though, then I wouldn't be needing to reword this several times.

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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #13 - on: 24.02.2015 at 22:50 [UT] »Quote from Pyraminå on 24.02.2015 at 12:58 [UT]:Ok.... again.... using the primary symbols connected with the sign (fish, ocean), I don't see how these symbols connect with being
sensitive. I already mentioned how they don't. I'm just curious though, so no big deal if it's too hard to explain in a way that I will
understand. If you truly could empathize with me and my train of thought though, then I wouldn't be needing to reword this several times.

Posts: 330

Hmm.. you just seem antagonistic.
Do you know anybody with l placements of their personal planets? Or strong aspects of personal planets to
Neptune? Or personal planets in 12H? It doesn't sound to me like you do.. at all. You sound Mercurian to me,maybe it rules your moon or AC, or maybe it conjuncts Jupiter in Air? This attitude of "this is the definition.
These are the characteristics, ie, this is the axiomatic set prescribed that I know of, I want what is defined"... itjust reminds me of the Airy, esp Gemini, tendency to rationalize feelings/emotions rather than connect to them.
Besides this superficial stance, I have never come across in research a suggestion that Pisces is insensitive andcold by nature. I have only ever seen the opposite: of their empathic abilities, their endless compassion, their
desire for dissolving all that is known/tangible into something that is, yes, indiscernible, but truly connected
and ONE (it's extremely spiritual, it is supposed to be the closest link to "god", which I think is just an internal
construct of an ideal of our psyche.. but that's a tangent). I mean, it sounds to me like you have been
observing fish, but not people. Like you have read some Hellenistic takes on Pisces, but not cross referenced
that with observation of others.
If you can only think in metaphors, then fish swim in schools. To survive, they must stay in the school andmust be very sensitive to any small movements felt through the water. Any fish near them that moves theslightest muscle, they feel it and move with them. A school of fish could not flow in the impressive uniformitythat they do if they were not keenly sensitive to their surroundings.

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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #14 - on: 24.02.2015 at 22:52 [UT] »Quote from sewit on 24.02.2015 at 12:31 [UT]:
Quote from rebirthcuspian on 24.02.2015 at 03:08 [UT]:
Quote from Pyraminå on 22.02.2015 at 12:14 [UT]:
Pisces is a cold sign (warmth connects with love), supposed to be tranquil, while tranquility is when you're
free from heightened emotions (free from being an HSP) and also when you dream, it means your mind is

Posts: 330

active (fiery). This to me (logically) would make Pisces the least sensitive. But where does it get thesensitivity connection?
Have you seen brain scans of people having "spiritual" experiences? These are the people in trancelike states, they can be
speaking in tongues in a church or chanting something in a ritual. It is a state of mind that is described as spiritual,
tranquil, "out-of body", or "out of mind".. very Piscean; I have had these states of being. Tranquility is not the absence ofheightened emotions, it IS a heightened emotion, where peace is abound. Are you high in air energy, including houseplacements? This seems like an Airy take on Pisces.

Rebirth, This is a lovely 'take' on the Piscean state and as Im am physically very tired after a big few weeks physically, I will come backsoon after I have absorbed and digested how logic comes into an interpretation of a Piscean nature. Laptop going in for reformatting so

DEO all o my natal

may be a week before Iget back. My response was also emotion based from the same tired physical state and T
mars andJ 1deg off the opposition - super sensitive to unwarranted generalised criticism

sewit, go restore your strengths, take as long as you need to. I look forward to hearing back from you soon!
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Aquamarine14

Ex Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #15 - on: 25.02.2015 at 12:46 [UT] »Like many signs l does get the 'wrap' for some of it's negative traits.
I have C in l among other planets. someone described this and also the 12th h influence as a higher
vibration. however for many they can not connect with or even hear this high vibration hence the influence islost in day to day reality of life.
e.e For me C in l has been a struggle to get myself heard. especially at work. a 6th house! as I haveworked with meditation and spiritual pursuits I think this has given me confidence to express my l. I can very
quickly pick up on the group dynamic at work and this helps to resolve conflict.
you do need to live in reality to function but the l element is what can inspire you to greater heights. (aslong as you keep your feet on the ground)
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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #16 - on: 25.02.2015 at 17:40 [UT] »Quote from Aquamarine14 on 25.02.2015 at 12:46 [UT]:
Like many signs
I havel does get the 'wrap' for some of it's negative traits.

C in l among other planets. someone described this and also the 12th h influence as a higher vibration. however for many they

can not connect with or even hear this high vibration hence the influence is lost in day to day reality of life.

Posts: 330

C

l

a

e.e For meinhas been a struggle to get myself heard. especially at work.
6th house! as I have worked with meditation andspiritual pursuits I think this has given me confidence to express my. I can very quickly pick up on the group dynamic at work and thislhelps to resolve conflict.
you do need to live in reality to function but thel element is what can inspire you to greater heights. (as long as you keep your feet on

the ground)Hello again Aquamarine14

Is that your birth stone? I always liked having it as a kid ("ooh what a pretty

blue!")
Do you believe there is a Collective consciousness and that every living thing is connected to it? With these
theories on a Multiverse rather than Universe, I am wondering if the Collective extends into other dimensions as
well..
If you don't believe there is a Collective, then that's fine, but if you DO.. what are your thoughts on my OP? Do
you think Piscean energy is somehow a link between the Collective and this existence that we know of? It makes
sense to me because of the empathic aptitude, the absorbent nature of Pisces to energy it connects with, themalleability of traits (adaptability) based on an environment's stimuli, this longing for Oneness.. I have been
thinking of this a lot, but don't know if I've made a plausible conclusion.
I'm starting to believe that we should all probably be more careful of what we're wishing for in our
daydreaming and fantasizing. I'm starting to believe that seeds are being sown when we do to manifest into thephysical realm. What do you think?
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Aquamarine14

Ex Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #17 - on: 25.02.2015 at 19:06 [UT] »Hi RP.
yes I do. for instance I believe that all regions are the same! they hold the same fundamental principles.
apparently this is 'wet'thinking my C in l again.
I think this I transit in l will hopefully give many an opportunity to explore this. however this is being
challenged by G in i currently.
I love the stone aquamarine. it is what I aspire too! I love that colour and I think it sums me up - my aura feels
best in this colour. Im very sensitve although can hide this behind a h asc!!
Im A k with stellium in l(CBD G N!!!!) I also like fluorite day to day!!
thanks for posting some thoughtful posts.
A14
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mistycharm
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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #18 - on: 25.02.2015 at 20:46 [UT] »You: Do you know anybody with l placements of their personal planets?
Me: Yes
You: Or strong aspects of personal planets to Neptune?
Me: Yes
You: Or personal planets in 12H?
Me: Yes
You: It doesn't sound to me like you do.. at all.

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Me: Sure
You: You sound Mercurian to me, maybe it rules your moon or AC, or maybe it conjuncts Jupiter in Air?
Me: Sure, but no

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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?

Ex Member« Reply #19 - on: 25.02.2015 at 22:33 [UT] »Quote from rebirthcuspian on 24.02.2015 at 03:08 [UT]:
Quote from Pyraminå on 22.02.2015 at 12:14 [UT]:
Pisces is a cold sign (warmth connects with love), supposed to be tranquil, while tranquility is when you're free fromheightened emotions (free from being an HSP) and also when you dream, it means your mind is active (fiery). This to me(logically) would make Pisces the least sensitive. But where does it get the sensitivity connection?
Have you seen brain scans of people having "spiritual" experiences? These are the people in trancelike states, they can be speaking intongues in a church or chanting something in a ritual. It is a state of mind that is described as spiritual, tranquil, "out-of body", or "out ofmind".. very Piscean; I have had these states of being. Tranquility is not the absence of heightened emotions, it IS a heightened emotion,
where peace is abound. Are you high in air energy, including house placements? This seems like an Airy take on Pisces.

Though I have I on the IC, I am able to go into trance (esp. trance-dance) at ease and honestly I relate thismore to my own natal C 8th house and h energies more than anything else. SN in scorpio connecting to thatease of trans-states. The people I know who are able to work song into this have an abundance of air in theircharts as well.
Kundalini is called the fire for a reason. Shaking medicine is the heating up (fire) and the cooling down (water).
But needs that electricity kO to get it going. All of this must be grounded in earth or one will lose their mind.
See how it all works together and on a collective scale?
Pyramia I get where you are coming from. Sometimes people project a hierarchy with regards to astrologicalsigns and the extent of the spirituality one may have based upon if they are ab...l.
That being said D in fire signs always seems to get a bad rap, but we are very warm-hearted and the fire burns
strong.
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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #20 - on: 26.02.2015 at 17:44 [UT] »Quote from Juxtaposed on 25.02.2015 at 22:33 [UT]:
Quote from rebirthcuspian on 24.02.2015 at 03:08 [UT]:
Quote from Pyraminå on 22.02.2015 at 12:14 [UT]:
Pisces is a cold sign (warmth connects with love), supposed to be tranquil, while tranquility is when you're
free from heightened emotions (free from being an HSP) and also when you dream, it means your mind is

Posts: 330

active (fiery). This to me (logically) would make Pisces the least sensitive. But where does it get thesensitivity connection?
Have you seen brain scans of people having "spiritual" experiences? These are the people in trancelike states, they can be
speaking in tongues in a church or chanting something in a ritual. It is a state of mind that is described as spiritual,
tranquil, "out-of body", or "out of mind".. very Piscean; I have had these states of being. Tranquility is not the absence ofheightened emotions, it IS a heightened emotion, where peace is abound. Are you high in air energy, including houseplacements? This seems like an Airy take on Pisces.

Though I have
8th house andI on the IC, I am able to go into trance (esp. trance-dance) at ease and honestly I relate this more to my own natal C
h energies more than anything else. SN in scorpio connecting to that ease of trans-states. The people I know who are able

to work song into this have an abundance of air in their charts as well.
Kundalini is called the fire for a reason. Shaking medicine is the heating up (fire) and the cooling down (water). But needs that electricity

kO to get it going. All of this must be grounded in earth or one will lose their mind. See how it all works together and on
a collective scale?
Pyramia I get where you are coming from. Sometimes people project a hierarchy with regards to astrologicalsigns and the extent of the spirituality one may have based upon if they are ab...l.
That being said

D in fire signs always seems to get a bad rap, but we are very warm-hearted and the fire burns strong.

Juxtaposed, yes, all of the four elements have to work together. They kind of do naturally, since they are notreally separate- that is an illusion. They are parts of one whole. Please understand, I was not intending to statethat there is some sort of superiority of Piscean energy, the only hierarchic organizing I would give the zodiacs
would be from an evolutional stance: I see the zodiac as a cycle. I think of it as "young" to "old" energy, whichhelps because I notice people with 1st quadrant (a-d) energy affecting them personally have really impressive
minds.. in a quick kind of way. And more spunk/vitality/eagerness. People with heavy social energies (e-h)
tend to be the most successful in life, on average (professionally, in relationships, the ones best adjusted to thesocial demands of their culture). When the transpersonal energies are prominent, these types are the "bigpicture" guys, each with different prerogatives. But there is this outward, accumulating affect I see in this cycle,
like layers. I've laughed to myself as I liken Piscean types as being senile-like, even in their youth. I often call
Pisces the senile energy, jokingly- just look at how we talk, our poor memories/recollection, it is like an elderly
energy. But it seems cyclic to me, these energies. Pisces is just the end of the cycle. But, even that makes me
wonder if there is some sort of closer link to the Collective, since that energy must dissolve from tangible
manifestations back to Source before the cycle can renew in the a awakening.
I think each of us encompass all zodiac energies, just some affect us more directly on a personal level, and that
affects our lives differently. But that does not mean there is an absence of any of them per person. They are allone of the same whole.
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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?

Ex Member« Reply #21 - on: 27.02.2015 at 01:15 [UT] »We share the same opinion. I just wrote to a dear friend...
" It is all equal in the realm of the spiritual for each element plays its role. It is just as the illusion of duality as
masculine and feminine. The separation of element is an illusion. "Retrograde planets play a large part into how personal an energy is, especially in regards to the internal vs.
external transformation and emission of frequency.
Personally, the way I tend to navigate through trance-like states is air (mind)-fire (heat)-air(electric)water(tranquility)-earth(grounding) or water(sleep)-air/earth/fire(lucidity) Everyone is different and there aremany different ways to reach the same states!
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AJ_88

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?

Member« Reply #22 - on: 02.03.2015 at 03:42 [UT] »Quote from rebirthcuspian on 15.02.2015 at 18:53 [UT]:Hello again
I recently had a thought roll along of a possible new way for me to think ofl/I/12H and I wanted to throw it out there to see if there's

any validity to it. It occurred to me that maybe that energy is of the Collective. In evolutionary astrology, I take it this can be thought ofas "Source", but in a psychological way, concerning all that is not conscious?
To me, it would explain the reflective qualities of the energy- why people can feel like they see themselves through another person, andthe details of that reflection can be things they don't want to acknowledge. It would certainly account for the overwhelming/disorienting
feelings it creates, the hypersensitivity (HSP types) to all energies it connects with, and the high levels of empathy and compassion. I'msure this isn't a new idea, but I hear and read too often insights to Pisces that don't seem to "get it". They focus too much on the
mystery, intrigue, and desolation. That's the more classical view of it, anyway. Are there modern takes on Pisces that suggests that it isdirectly linked to the Collective? If that is so, what happens to that constant daydreaming? Should those with that link be mindful? Are

Posts: 869
Gender:they unintentionally sowing seeds in the Collective to be manifested by anyone who acknowledges it?
I ask this, because I have noticed increasingly that my daydreams manifest. I have noticed it more so recently, or maybe it has always
been that way, and I was not knowing of it? I don't know, but it made me see Pisces differently. What do you guys think?

It could but tbh might depend on more than the consideration of Neptune, Pisces, and the twelfth house. With
regard to HSP types I'm clairsentient and it has nothing what so ever to do with Pisces or Neptune, though I do
have the moon placed in the twelfth.
I have the sun un Virgo, moon in Capricorn, and Saturn in sag ruling my ascendant, with water being the least
dominant element.
Clairsentience is the extrasensory ability to feel others emotions and energy in general. A blessing and a curse.
Its not easy or fun to deal with.
Putting aside my own personal opinions of the sign=house=planet theory the variables may well be much more
broad and encompassing.
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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #23 - on: 02.03.2015 at 18:05 [UT] »[quote author=Ignis link=1424026409/20#22 date=1425267767]Quote from rebirthcuspian on
15.02.2015 at 18:53 [UT]:
It could but tbh might depend on more than the consideration of Neptune, Pisces, and the twelfth house. With regard to HSP types I'mclairsentient and it has nothing what so ever to do with Pisces or Neptune, though I do have the moon placed in the twelfth.

Posts: 330
I have the sun un Virgo, moon in Capricorn, and Saturn in sag ruling my ascendant, with water being the least dominant element.
Clairsentience is the extrasensory ability to feel others emotions and energy in general. A blessing and a curse. Its not easy or fun to deal
with.
Putting aside my own personal opinions of the sign=house=planet theory the variables may well be much more broad and encompassing.

I had you pegged as a Virgo Sun before I read this, ha!
I think it depends on what kind of empathic abilities we're talking about, but I'm sure your moon in the 12th isa very sensitive position. Specifically to Piscean energy, I'm wondering if there is some sort of propensity
toward an empathy on a collective scale? I would imagine the more direct/personal kinds of HSP (between two
people, in smaller groups, and so on) would lean more to other energies sensitive on a psychic level (maybe
d/B/4H and h/J/8H.. maybe seen strongly in mind energy, like aspects/placements to A, B, C?)
Under the conditions that 1. there is a Collective conscious and subconscious of all living beings and 2. thezodiac energy is cyclic, with Arie beginning the manifestation from the Collective into tangible dimensions andending with Pisces dissolving back to the Collective "source", is it plausible that Pisces/Neptune/12H strongly
affecting one's mental energy has some link, or connection, to that Collective? For Pisces, this would probably
apply to the Collective subconscious. Maybe that is where Piscean types are always drifting to, where they longto go because it somehow feels more natural?
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MariBSage

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?

Ex Member« Reply #24 - on: 02.03.2015 at 19:01 [UT] »Quote from rebirthcuspian on 24.02.2015 at 02:52 [UT]:
Quote from sewit on 23.02.2015 at 12:06 [UT]:
Quote from rebirthcuspian on 15.02.2015 at 18:53 [UT]:Hello again
I recently had a thought roll along of a possible new way for me to think ofl/I/12H and I wanted tothrow it out there to see if there's any validity to it. It occurred to me that maybe that energy is of theCollective. In evolutionary astrology, I take it this can be thought of as "Source", but in a psychological way,concerning all that is not conscious?
To me, it would explain the reflective qualities of the energy- why people can feel like they see themselves
through another person, and the details of that reflection can be things they don't want to acknowledge. It
would certainly account for the overwhelming/disorienting feelings it creates, the hypersensitivity (HSP
types) to all energies it connects with, and the high levels of empathy and compassion. I'm sure this isn't a
new idea, but I hear and read too often insights to Pisces that don't seem to "get it". They focus too muchon the mystery, intrigue, and desolation. That's the more classical view of it, anyway. Are there modern
takes on Pisces that suggests that it is directly linked to the Collective? If that is so, what happens to that
constant daydreaming? Should those with that link be mindful? Are they unintentionally sowing seeds in theCollective to be manifested by anyone who acknowledges it?
I ask this, because I have noticed increasingly that my daydreams manifest. I have noticed it more sorecently, or maybe it has always been that way, and I was not knowing of it? I don't know, but it made me
see Pisces differently. What do you guys think?

Rebirth these comments are very relevant in my case and even now at nearing 70, I still have an unclear idea of who I am
on a physical level. By spending much time on self reflection and delving into the mysteries of life, much to theantagonism of family and people I thought were friends, I have some pretty clear insights which come to me in the formof dreams and 'gut' feeling which of course many people laugh at, however I listen to these things more and more as overtime they have proved to be more accurate than so called logic. I need no one these days but choose to have those in mylife who resonate kindness and honesty. Trust in life is a powerful armour.
Yes! sewit, I know that cozy feeling of two fishies meeting, and hello

What do you think accounts for all the sensitivity, to thatabsorbent nature of our energy? We soak up all that comes into contact with us, and it feels as though it's our own. Something happens tosomeone, and we feel it so crushingly. Have you noticed a reflective quality to your interactions with others? As in, most people see you
in some projected/disjointed way, and it is usually them seeing themselves when they see you. I often feel like a walking mirror.
Have you noticed things that you focus your mind towards becoming manifested? I have been working on keeping my daydreaming incheck, and I'm training myself to use positive psychology.. I have trouble daydreaming of happy, wonderful things for myself, but I havebeen indulging in daydreaming about humankind elevating their cognition. I fantasize about old oppressive orders dying away, sociallyconstructed inequalities becoming ignorant notions in society.. of shame being called out and rebuked, so that every individual can work on
healing their pains without being called "damaged", or worse, "weak". I feel heightened awareness on the verge of happening, andhopefully it does in my lifetime! I want to look back when I'm older and marvel at the strides we made, collectively.

Pisces, here and agree.
We live for things other's do not.
we sense the invisible.
drown in the environment if too much.
we are not weak.
We are h with no armor. except belief

much depends on the sun's aspects as well. I have met a few pisces with no compassion.

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AJ_88

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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #25 - on: 03.03.2015 at 03:29 [UT] »I wonder if astro has any data on people who are sensitive. I was using myself as an example because it might
not always be so straightforward.
When I say empath I do not mean in the sense of feeling empathy either. I literally feel it as if it were my own
feelings. Its difficult being in large groups for very long especially cos of the roller coaster like qualities ofnumerous people. It can be a bit much and heart breaking at times. With really stressed out and upset people
I can literally become sick or get head pain and become sort of spaced out.

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sewitEx Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #26 - on: 03.03.2015 at 03:57 [UT] »Quote from Ignis on 03.03.2015 at 03:29 [UT]:
I wonder if astro has any data on people who are sensitive. I was using myself as an example because it might not always be sostraightforward.
When I say empath I do not mean in the sense of feeling empathy either. I literally feel it as if it were my own feelings. Its difficult being
in large groups for very long especially cos of the roller coaster like qualities of numerous people. It can be a bit much and heart breaking
at times. With really stressed out and upset people I can literally become sick or get head pain and become sort of spaced out.

Hi Ignis, Dr Elaine Aaron has had a movie made on HSP's followig her book written in the early 2000's. It wasan eye opener for me which helped me feel less of an alien and move away from critical people who did notunderstand such a nature.
http://sensitivethemovie.com/
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AJ_88

Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #27 - on: 03.03.2015 at 13:35 [UT] »Quote from sewit on 03.03.2015 at 03:57 [UT]:
Quote from Ignis on 03.03.2015 at 03:29 [UT]:
I wonder if astro has any data on people who are sensitive. I was using myself as an example because it might not always
be so straightforward.
When I say empath I do not mean in the sense of feeling empathy either. I literally feel it as if it were my own feelings.
Its difficult being in large groups for very long especially cos of the roller coaster like qualities of numerous people. It canbe a bit much and heart breaking at times. With really stressed out and upset people I can literally become sick or gethead pain and become sort of spaced out.

Posts: 869
Gender:Hi Ignis, Dr Elaine Aaron has had a movie made on HSP's followig her book written in the early 2000's. It was an eye opener for me which
helped me feel less of an alien and move away from critical people who did not understand such a nature.
http://sensitivethemovie.com/

Blessings.
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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #28 - on: 03.03.2015 at 17:48 [UT] »Quote from Ignis on 03.03.2015 at 03:29 [UT]:
I wonder if astro has any data on people who are sensitive. I was using myself as an example because it might not always be sostraightforward.
When I say empath I do not mean in the sense of feeling empathy either. I literally feel it as if it were my own feelings. Its difficult being

Posts: 330

in large groups for very long especially cos of the roller coaster like qualities of numerous people. It can be a bit much and heart breaking
at times. With really stressed out and upset people I can literally become sick or get head pain and become sort of spaced out.

Perusing this site will be my next step in this quandary of mine, good call.
I know what you speak of. I have a lot of heavy Piscean energy: ABF in 12H, Neptune conjuncts my mars
and trines my venus, AC and Jupiter (the venus and AC aspects are tightest). It even sextiles my mercury,though not tightly. Placement-wise, my sun is the only planet placed in that energy, but the Neptunian nature
seems to seep through pores of my personal makeup. All of that to say that feeling foreign energies happens
everyday for me, but it's easy to be confused by the source or context of what is felt (at least for me). My 12H
is ruled by Neptune, too, so maybe yours being ruled by Saturn gives a different effect (I would say more
"effective" empathic channels to the subconscious)?
I am not literally an empathy the way yours has manifested, but I know someone well who also has saturated
Neptunian energy: AC in 12H, Neptune in 1H and trines their moon- actually every personal planet is tightly
aspected by Neptune (I would suspect orbs play a vital role in this empathic manifestation). Heavy Piscean
energy affecting the personal placements in one's natal seems to be a common factor that I'm picking up on,
but I would need to be able to acquire more charts for more data. Btw, his 12H is ruled by Pluto, and there areheavy Plutonian energies affecting his personal placements as well, so maybe this is causing an exponential
empathic manifestation? Maybe his Em IC boosts it further?
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DeVnt

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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #29 - on: 05.03.2015 at 15:41 [UT] »I agree with rebirthcuspian. Perhaps it takes a Piscean to know a piscean. And I totally understand what you aresaying. I have a Pisces moon. The rest of me is pretty cold.lol. but that Pisces energy is the warm giving kindthat gets taken advantage of. I do feel all the energies around me to the point what I have to go away to getaway from all of it. To feel 'myself'. So many times I thought the thoughts were mine but the results came out
Posts: 49

to those around me. Makes me ask the question. Who has the original thought?
Recently my distress had been that there is Nothing in this world for me to hold on to. Nothing. Then I see thefish in my aquarium and realize fish don't hang on. They just keep swimminG. Lol. Guess that's the go with theflow zen I have to hang my fins on!

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AJ_88

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?

Member« Reply #30 - on: 06.03.2015 at 03:24 [UT] »Quote from rebirthcuspian on 03.03.2015 at 17:48 [UT]:
Quote from Ignis on 03.03.2015 at 03:29 [UT]:
I wonder if astro has any data on people who are sensitive. I was using myself as an example because it might not always
be so straightforward.
When I say empath I do not mean in the sense of feeling empathy either. I literally feel it as if it were my own feelings.
Its difficult being in large groups for very long especially cos of the roller coaster like qualities of numerous people. It canbe a bit much and heart breaking at times. With really stressed out and upset people I can literally become sick or gethead pain and become sort of spaced out.

Posts: 869
Gender:Perusing this site will be my next step in this quandary of mine, good call.
I know what you speak of. I have a lot of heavy Piscean energy:

ABF in 12H, Neptune conjuncts my mars and trines my venus, AC and

Jupiter (the venus and AC aspects are tightest). It even sextiles my mercury, though not tightly. Placement-wise, my sun is the only
planet placed in that energy, but the Neptunian nature seems to seep through pores of my personal makeup. All of that to say that feelingforeign energies happens everyday for me, but it's easy to be confused by the source or context of what is felt (at least for me). My 12H
is ruled by Neptune, too, so maybe yours being ruled by Saturn gives a different effect (I would say more "effective" empathic channels
to the subconscious)?
I am not literally an empathy the way yours has manifested, but I know someone well who also has saturated Neptunian energy:

AC in

12H, Neptune in 1H and trines their moon- actually every personal planet is tightly aspected by Neptune (I would suspect orbs play a vitalrole in this empathic manifestation). Heavy Piscean energy affecting the personal placements in one's natal seems to be a common factor
that I'm picking up on, but I would need to be able to acquire more charts for more data. Btw, his 12H is ruled by Pluto, and there areheavy Plutonian energies affecting his personal placements as well, so maybe this is causing an exponential empathic manifestation?
Maybe his
IC boosts it further?

Em

If it helps at all heres my own chart. I'm honestly clueless as to what would jump out or whether extra sensory
perception can even be recognized. I do know that Clairsentience is the most common though and quite anumber of people have it to various degrees (that cliché for example on whether one gives off good or badvibes or having a gut reaction to something for example). I'm getting a better grasp of it and can somewhat
pin point who its coming from. What's interesting is that a lot tends to correspond to either the heart or sacral
areas; not sure how to describe it other than a sort of pressure. The severity of the pressure and whether its
sharp, dull, slow or quick tends to give a lot of information. Ive noticed various other things as well but haven't
been quite able to pin them down into words.

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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #31 - on: 06.03.2015 at 07:06 [UT] »I've met many various flavored Pisces in my 64 years, and I see now where they came up with that term
Everyman to describe Pisces, as well as the rose-colored glasses. Fish? Well, there's an untold variety of fishes
in the sea! They can be barracuda's (like billionaire Rupert Murdoch), sharks, whales, and harmless goldfish!
Posts: 531
Gender:

IMO, this sign is as complex and as unfathomable as all other 11 signs combined!
I clearly understand the wearing of the rose-colored glasses, but that can be taken too far, into the territory ofsociopathic insensitivity. They happen to drive by a group of homeless people, they step on the gas, close theireyes, too painful to consider! Run, run, run!
It's been said that Pisces has the greatest horror of becoming impoverished (understandable, as they wouldn't
emotionally survive well in a homeless shelter), and I've seen it way too many times, particularly some strongly
flavored Piscean woman marrying into wealth, financial security foremost on their minds. And it amazes me
who they seem to find these people who succumb to their geisha-like manipulations. My Piscean sister latchedon to one, 50 years ago, which enabled her to live a life without working, and only doing work she fully
enjoyed, dealing in antiques.
Reading material? For God's sakes, nothing depressing, nothing that would strip them of their rose-coloredglasses, even for a minute! Please! Fiction only! I want to escape from this poor-excuse-for-a-planet! I don't
want to read about that, average life in 3rd world countries! All I'll do is get tears all over the pages!

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2MuchEarthMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #32 - on: 06.03.2015 at 07:10 [UT] »Ignis: Remember that thread I started on baseball caps worn backwards, as a hint of Aquarius in one's chart?
I knew it! I knew it! It had to be there somewhere!
Mars in Aries? Now that's one hot/quick tempered mars sign!
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Gender:We do share a Capricorn Moon!

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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #33 - on: 06.03.2015 at 11:34 [UT] »Quote from 2MuchEarth on 06.03.2015 at 07:06 [UT]:
I've met many various flavored Pisces in my 64 years, and I see now where they came up with that term Everyman to describe Pisces, aswell as the rose-colored glasses. Fish? Well, there's an untold variety of fishes in the sea! They can be barracuda's (like billionaire Rupert
Murdoch), sharks, whales, and harmless goldfish!
IMO, this sign is as complex and as unfathomable as all other 11 signs combined!
I clearly understand the wearing of the rose-colored glasses, but that can be taken too far, into the territory of sociopathic insensitivity.
They happen to drive by a group of homeless people, they step on the gas, close their eyes, too painful to consider! Run, run, run!
It's been said that Pisces has the greatest horror of becoming impoverished (understandable, as they wouldn't emotionally survive well ina homeless shelter), and I've seen it way too many times, particularly some strongly flavored Piscean woman marrying into wealth,financial security foremost on their minds. And it amazes me who they seem to find these people who succumb to their geisha-likemanipulations. My Piscean sister latched on to one, 50 years ago, which enabled her to live a life without working, and only doing work
she fully enjoyed, dealing in antiques.
Reading material? For God's sakes, nothing depressing, nothing that would strip them of their rose-colored glasses, even for a minute!
Please! Fiction only! I want to escape from this poor-excuse-for-a-planet! I don't want to read about that, average life in 3rd world
countries! All I'll do is get tears all over the pages!
I do wish generalisation of any sign be left out. I have a mountain of analtycial books astro, psyche, self help, counselling and read byseveral friends who are also pisces or strong 12th house need to know themselves better? We couold all name other signs who bury theirheads in the sand and wont face the reality of their lives.

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EnigmeMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #34 - on: 06.03.2015 at 12:46 [UT] »Your liberation will come when you Pisces accept that you aren't the only ones who feel deeply.. or can beempathic. Sorry but I see a lot of We Are the Only Ones language.
Maybe it is that Pisces has rose colored glasses about themselves in regard to how they in reality treat others.
Being so concerned for its own emotional protection, that it actually depletes others and creates loss. Saturn isin its joy in the 12th. Most Narcs have heavy 12th or Pisces placements. Sky script Debra Holding and one
other.
Two of the worst friendships I experienced were Pisces.. toxic selfish and woe is me.
Remember in a circle there is no ending. Yes Pisces are cool folks..and because y'all are sensitive, when a Pisces
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stops over protecting, awesome. Remember there are two fish not one.

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AJ_88

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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #35 - on: 06.03.2015 at 13:26 [UT] »Quote from 2MuchEarth on 06.03.2015 at 07:10 [UT]:
Ignis: Remember that thread I started on baseball caps worn backwards, as a hint of Aquarius in one's chart? I knew it! I knew it! It had
to be there somewhere!
Mars in Aries? Now that's one hot/quick tempered mars sign!
We do share a Capricorn Moon!

Hmmmm maybe. I also where them side ways, forward, fedoras, beanies, trilbys etc.
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Personally I have found the sign the ruler of the asc is in to be better descriptive of traits than the sign of theasc (unless there is a planet in the first). I think I had a discussion with a poster about it a while ago where I
was convinced.
The moon can be an issue but the trine from mwrcury helps I think. Its certainly interesting that while both
may be cap moons one of us is more restrained than the other in amorous activities.

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rebirthcuspianMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #36 - on: 06.03.2015 at 18:07 [UT] »If it helps at all heres my own chart. I'm honestly clueless as to what would jump out or whether extra sensory
perception can even be recognized. I do know that Clairsentience is the most common though and quite anumber of people have it to various degrees (that cliché for example on whether one gives off good or bad

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vibes or having a gut reaction to something for example). I'm getting a better grasp of it and can somewhat
pin point who its coming from. What's interesting is that a lot tends to correspond to either the heart or sacral
areas; not sure how to describe it other than a sort of pressure. The severity of the pressure and whether its
sharp, dull, slow or quick tends to give a lot of information. Ive noticed various other things as well but haven't
been quite able to pin them down into words.
[/quote]I find this so fascinating! I know there's more insight out there than I can offer on this matter, I simply have
not had a chance to study many charts of people I can observe! Do you think those heavy outer planets being
retrograded plays a role, including your chart leader (I wonder if Aquarian energy is needed to make something
crystalize from Pisces's influence? The person I was speaking of has his Venus in 11H, also ruled by Pluto).
Maybe the story of your 12H B reiterates your identity, the Sun, trining your chart ruler, which is introverted
due to the retrograde. Your sun trines Neptune, also introverted energy, and conjuncts you DC, maybe thatalong with J supporting your chart ruler and at home in 8H, along with your left and right brains (that's sortof how I think of C, B energy) being harmonious all points to this empathic manifestation? Maybe there arecombos needed in addition to heavy Pisces in a chart, such as Plutonic and Uranian energies? Has anyone comeacross such research on clairsentience?? Any patterns noticed?

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AJ_88

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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #37 - on: 06.03.2015 at 20:35 [UT] »Quote from rebirthcuspian on 06.03.2015 at 18:07 [UT]:
If it helps at all heres my own chart. I'm honestly clueless as to what would jump out or whether extra sensory perception can even berecognized. I do know that Clairsentience is the most common though and quite a number of people have it to various degrees (that cliché
for example on whether one gives off good or bad vibes or having a gut reaction to something for example). I'm getting a better grasp ofit and can somewhat pin point who its coming from. What's interesting is that a lot tends to correspond to either the heart or sacral areas;
not sure how to describe it other than a sort of pressure. The severity of the pressure and whether its sharp, dull, slow or quick tends togive a lot of information. Ive noticed various other things as well but haven't been quite able to pin them down into words.

Quote:
I find this so fascinating! I know there's more insight out there than I can offer on this matter, I simply have not had a chance to study

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Gender:many charts of people I can observe! Do you think those heavy outer planets being retrograded plays a role, including your chart leader (Iwonder if Aquarian energy is needed to make something crystalize from Pisces's influence? The person I was speaking of has his Venus in

B reiterates your identity, the Sun, trining your chart ruler, which is introverted
J supporting yourchart ruler and at home in 8H, along with your left and right brains (that's sort of how I think of C, B energy) being harmonious all
11H, also ruled by Pluto). Maybe the story of your 12H

due to the retrograde. Your sun trines Neptune, also introverted energy, and conjuncts you DC, maybe that along withpoints to this empathic manifestation? Maybe there are combos needed in addition to heavy Pisces in a chart, such as Plutonic and Uranianenergies? Has anyone come across such research on clairsentience?? Any patterns noticed?

I'm not sure. I was thinking that Neptune trining sun might be significant myself. Uranus is also in tightconjunction to the ruler of my ascendant. And yes there is Pluto as well.
Mercury and the moon might factor in. I know of several people with merc and moon trines who seem to strikea balance between emotional and mental faculties and seem to have a natural inclination towards spiritual orparanormal pursuits. I do not know if they are sensitive although one did tell me about a vision they had.
From what I understand about being an empath it requires a sort of duality of feeling and intellectualization.
This might correlate to the heart and sacral chakras and the brow chakra (spit balling here but some material I
came across stresses focus on the brow energy center as well). Speaking of duality I wonder if a heavy focus on
mutable signs factors in.
Maybe the lots factor in? Lot of spirit is in the 9th sign (I use the Hellenistic approach as it seems to work
better) with its ruler conjunct the lot of fortune. The ruler of fortune (moon) opposes from the twelfth sign.
Personally its not something I would wish on anyone. Its not something that can be turned off or that's tapped
into (though one can become more aware). Shields are useless because its simply additional stress and effort
and counter productive. Sorry. This past week I had five people unload on me and its been a bit of a
crapalicious week.
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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #38 - on: 07.03.2015 at 11:23 [UT] »Quote from Enigme on 06.03.2015 at 12:46 [UT]:Your liberation will come when you Pisces accept that you aren't the only ones who feel deeply.. or can be empathic. Sorry but I see a lotof We Are the Only Ones language.
Touche Enigme
Maybe it is that Pisces has rose colored glasses about themselves in regard to how they in reality treat others.
Again touche but they can learn and come to their true colours
Being so concerned for its own emotional protection, that it actually depletes others and creates loss. I think a lack of trust in life fromearly experiences adds to this and they can become ridiculously self centred
Saturn is in its joy in the 12th. Most Narcs have heavy 12th or Pisces placements. Sky script Debra Holding and one other.
what meaning of Narcs does this refer to Engime?
Two of the worst friendships I experienced were Pisces.. toxic selfish and woe is me. Sad that this was your experience, most of mine arevery unselfish
Remember in a circle there is no ending. Yes Pisces are cool folks..and because y'all are sensitive, when a Pisces stops over protecting,awesome. Remember there are two fish not one.

Hence the confusion
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Krista ShippMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #39 - on: 07.03.2015 at 11:47 [UT] »My chart ruler- B is natally in magical l- H9Also in l & H9- K 10/ POF 14/ Ceres 16/ NB 17/ Amor 19
Often l gets a bad rap- imo- as it akin to a prism- with all its facets & faces.
My B is p N EmO d- H12- Imagination OFF THE CHARTS
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While Neppy can bring confusion, uncertainty- without Neppy- there would be no glamour, illusions, actors,
actresses
I was reading a really old astro book- that referred to l as the 'dustbin of the zodiac'- a little bit of all 11
signs..
I don't really agree with thatl has a wider variety of personality types than any other sign..
My 3
Krista & her Magickal Moon
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Enigme

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?

Member« Reply #40 - on: 07.03.2015 at 12:14 [UT] »((((((sewit)))))). my concern is that one sign should not be praised on high at the expense of another.
To address Pisces homelessness..very street savvy. Much more than I..but I get along without compromising. I
personally know a few who are hookers.
Psychology and Esoteric studies have been my life shoot never stopped learning. Pedestals are bad. It creates anarcissism...no one understands us. Yes we do..we just don't always feel like pandering to emotional bursts.
But we will be there if you need us. Maybe it is a lack of appreciation that causes Pisces to not recognize all thehelp given.

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Tears and displays can be faked. I know people that can cry on demand..what of the depths of the silent? Has
anyone considered that tears are shallow a show sometimes. My Pisces former co worker lost her job because
she was two faced and worked against me...oh geez you could hear her a mile away.
And Pisces would not have Virgo as a Complimentary Opposite if there weren't similarities.
Sewit you have been a long and faithful friend and I treasure this.
I did some deep research..the Virgo glyph..the Womb, and denotes her triplicity maybe four..Raven/Dove
Human Mermaid Chalice.
Anyway Venus exalted ruled traditionally by Jupiter. Learn Venus..friendship, love, etc but also Vain andJealous.
12th hidden enemies, solitude forced and chosen, imprisonment.. yet it could be Transcendence moving into
rebirth in Aries..
I am not a Pisces..yet I remember past lives, am empathic and empathetic..being empathic alone without
empathy is psychologically sociopathic..I see things invisible to others, have worked with my hands in theseways.. Virgo Aries moon at 00°.
Buddha was a Taurus.
Broaden your Minds to include others..you are far from alone.

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Enigme

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?

Member« Reply #41 - on: 07.03.2015 at 13:04 [UT] »Hey I'm not bashing Fishes.. love ya.
I simply see an Agenda getting in the way of Truth and Real Transcendence. Feel good psychology does no realgood in the long run. Drugs for emotional desphoria are only meant to be taken 6 months.. One last on 12thand it is crucial...most of the time the Hidden Enemy is ourselves. And we All have a 12th house.
A small piece of my picture if the background had the boundary, white and blue energy around trees and energy
around the pot, then it would be actual.
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Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #42 - on: 08.03.2015 at 21:43 [UT] »Quote from Enigme on 07.03.2015 at 13:04 [UT]:Hey I'm not bashing Fishes.. love ya.
I simply see an Agenda getting in the way of Truth and Real Transcendence. Feel good psychology does no real good in the long run. Drugsfor emotional desphoria are only

:u-*o meant to be taken 6 months.. One last on 12th and it is crucial...most of the time the Hidden

Enemy is ourselves. And we All have a 12th house.
A small piece of my picture if the background had the boundary, white and blue energy around trees and energy around the pot, then it
would be actual.

hi enigme, been thinking about you and was remembeted this article on astro on chikds psge i think..its
early.morning and halfarsed sround with a phone ! so please excusr spelling. this really hit home to me having
lost a brother uncle and grandfather vy the age of 6. it may do all people in this thread a power of good tounderstand 12th pisces stuff and give you the realisation of how potent your insights are at times. tried four toa kiss icon to no effevt so im goving up and posting as is.
Anne Whitaker:
Contemplating the 12th House- An Optimist's Take on Self-Undoing
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Enigme

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?

Member« Reply #43 - on: 09.03.2015 at 01:30 [UT] »Oh it worked..posting and phones is wretched. And yes it jumped. Mine does that too..so
You understand the essence of what I mean and it has never been to hurt. Or to demean. Pisces..my son Johno
was a Pishes.
Pisces are hard working..hell y'all the ones with talents. The Northerly Fish I know are brilliant, very easy toconnect with, good deep conversations but can be just as whack and fun.
And yes it has been Pisces that will speak up and describe my aura if that's their thing.
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The 12th is cadent. The sun here is yes receptive to Other Places.
You all do see what other's do not.
I simply desired to let you know that we or at least I will listen...just don't flood out good things when we do.
And we are more than happy to give in return.
You are Virgo's Complimentary opposite, not quincunx or semi sextile like..that's Alchemy..6th house aspect
and first house..fusion of dissimilar elements. Maybe it also my desire for us to be seen for what we truly are as
well..oppositions give path of reflection and symbiosis. If there were no Virgo..Pisces could not Be...we Are
Womb Cup etc..You are the Nurtured Soul Complete..esoterically..but it is ready to Spring into a next phase of
The Spiral...We Arise..XX

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sewitEx Member

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #44 - on: 09.03.2015 at 12:33 [UT] »you wax lyrical so well enigme
wonder why i get confused.
this was my neptune , day. not sure where mercury is.
cannot open your message, astro sayingwork being done and link not acvessible but can get on here no prob. ?
visiting friend for 70th all great. text other friends in my old aussie home town who were expecting me, thenget some weird mixed message ftom them to go swimming,( presuming i own a pair of swimmers as
i live on the bush), at local beach then coffee at 6am ? and when i said time not good afyer giving my several
options for the three days of my.visit 450ks from home, heard no response in 4 hrs so again confronted withlack of communicating people, going silent when i dont comply to fit on with there schedule and are notwantingto give judt a little.
im over people like this so the 'cold pisces' will move forwatd yet again leaving those.behind who call me afriend but do nothing to add to the friendship.
AND PEOPLE CALL US FISH.COLD maybe we could collaborate for book enigme?
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EnigmeMember

Re: Pisces/12H: energy of the Collective?
« Reply #45 - on: 09.03.2015 at 13:55 [UT] »Yes we could... it's a shame the quality Cold is applied to how you emote. Lol my son couldn't say fish well socalled them Pish. Koi swim lovely in cool waters. Cold Virgin and Fish... quite a combo.
It is hard to Not wrap a heart around it. Waters of the Soul need something to stir them..what better than abeautiful fish. It is a symbol..see other.
Ironic this person contacted me wanting me to visit..the Ideal and that which she Lure's (Lol) me bymentioning things of this nature..

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I feel a pull but I cannot do it to myself. It is hard and heart achy.
Ve Leo romances friendship.
Take heart some friends one or two are true.
Man with 5 fortunate. Man with 10 a fool and Man with one is Wise.xx

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