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schizophrenia and psychopathy (Read 3126 times)

Mitch Exceen
Ex Memberschizophrenia and psychopathy« on: 19.05.2011 at 20:43 [UT+1] »i know a guy who thinks the boogeyman is out to get him.

what aspects are we looking for here? i would think BoG
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RocketMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #1 - on: 19.05.2011 at 21:01 [UT+1] »Quote from Mitch Exceen on 19.05.2011 at 20:43 [UT+1]:
i know a guy who thinks the boogeyman is out to get him.

what aspects are we looking for here? i would think

BoG

Posts: 132

Mitch I'm guessin' it's unlikely, a real long shot,

one could correlate astrology very well with mental illnesses.

Astrology validity is often barely discernible in many "normal" people .... folks with that kind of ideation are
so out there how could you depend on any kind of accuracy re: what they say about their experience.
I say this after decades of Jungian psychology, psychotherapy, medical, psychiatric, neuroscience, paranormal,
altered states and meditation related professional level training and first hand experience.
IMHO some hospitalized people are living out things other than "illness" .... some have content from theunconscious which may be "real" in one reality getting switched with ordinary reality, or overlapping withnormal reality in a way that does not agree with mainstream consensus reality.
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #2 - on: 19.05.2011 at 21:08 [UT+1] »schizophrenia and psychopathy or boogey man? which is it.?

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Mitch Exceen

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #3 - on: 19.05.2011 at 21:32 [UT+1] »i actually think the boogeyman is out to get me, but what aspects would one look for if one wanted to detectschizophrenia or psychopathy?

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Tham58
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #4 - on: 19.05.2011 at 22:16 [UT+1] »http://astrodynamics.net/blog/2011/02/04/astrology-and-schizophrenia/

Posts: 456
Gender:" Uranus, to me, is the prime culprit inschizophrenic people. "http://www.zodiacal.com/articles/rozhon/psych.htm

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Geoffrey Hillend

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #5 - on: 19.05.2011 at 22:58 [UT+1] »For the bogeyman one is looking for a astro signature for shadow projection or enemy psychology. Such asignature only shows a potential though. It depends on the knowledge of the psyche of the individual.
Try Saturn-Pluto, Chiron-Pluto, Pluto in aspect to the nodes.
Posts: 2200

The archetypal combinations are complex with schizophenia and psychology; With schizophrenia, Neptune isoften invovled where one can't tell the difference between the imagination, myth and reality. The belief that aan expressed Mars is the cure for schizophrenia is dubious; it is only the symptoms of the unconscious gaining
more control which has to be understood by the subject through symbolism, myth and archetype.
I have to include Uranus, Neptune and Pluto in apsects to the ascendant and inner planets with a psychopathic
and schizophrenic astro signature since all of these archetypes can have their harmful transpersonal or negative
aspects when not understood.

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RocketMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #6 - on: 19.05.2011 at 23:01 [UT+1] »Quote from Mitch Exceen on 19.05.2011 at 21:32 [UT+1]:
i actually think the boogeyman is out to get me, but what aspects would one look for if one wanted to detect schizophrenia or
psychopathy?

Posts: 132

YOu will not be able to.
The roots of that sort of thing are way too compex
Astrology is not a cookbook for everything that happens to people... and any 10 year old with a computer canmuster an opinion (or a question) and even maybe make it "sound" creditable and post it on the net.

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CelineMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #7 - on: 20.05.2011 at 06:07 [UT+1] »Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 19.05.2011 at 22:58 [UT+1]:
For the bogeyman one is looking for a astro signature for shadow projection or enemy psychology. Such a signature only shows a potential
though. It depends on the knowledge of the psyche of the individual.
Try Saturn-Pluto, Chiron-Pluto, Pluto in aspect to the nodes.

Posts: 2948
Gender:

The archetypal combinations are complex with schizophenia and psychology; With schizophrenia, Neptune is often invovled where one can'ttell the difference between the imagination, myth and reality. The belief that a an expressed Mars is the cure for schizophrenia is dubious;
it is only the symptoms of the unconscious gaining more control which has to be understood by the subject through symbolism, myth andarchetype.
I have to include Uranus, Neptune and Pluto in apsects to the ascendant and inner planets with a psychopathic and schizophrenic astro
signature since all of these archetypes can have their harmful transpersonal or negative aspects when not understood.

Good reply. I too think that it's the aspects rather than the individual planets that manifest in psychopathology.
And one would need to have more than one such aspect for the psychopathology to emerge. For example, I
have Neptune square Sun, which is not a good aspect for mental health, but I don't have mental healthproblems (not clinical ones anyway) That's probably because I have a healthy Saturn and Mars to keep me
grounded and alert, and to counteract the Neptune-Sun influence.
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Waybread
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #8 - on: 20.05.2011 at 06:09 [UT+1] »I don't think there is a single astrological signature. The Astro-DataBank contains a lot of charts of famous andordinary people with various mental disorders. I've looked at a bunch of them and it is hard to see one kind ofpattern.
You may have seen the film about Nobel Prize winner John Nash ("A Beautiful Mind"), who suffered fromschizophrenia. He has (CmJ) o (BmE)
Another famous zchizophrenic was Vaslav Nijinski, one of the great ballet dancers of all time. He had (CmB) o(JmI).
Posts: 14740
Gender:Ted Kaczynski, the former math professor, schizophrenic, and Unabomber has Bo (AmOmG) and CoI.
It is possible that any given mental illness does not have a single cause. Also, looking more closely at Chiron
or Black Moon Lilith might show some patterns.
But I think that Mercury and the moon involved in difficult aspects with heavy planets make some sense here,
as the moon is one's emotional state (cf. our words "lunatic" and "lunacy") and Mercury is our thinking capacity.
For sure, Mitch--this guy should be seeing a qualified mental health professional. Schizophrenia is an illness
just as having cancer or hepatitus are illnesses.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #9 - on: 20.05.2011 at 06:22 [UT+1] »Hi Mitch, the best thing is to post that chart, every chart is different and have myriad of nuances. wish the best.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #10 - on: 20.05.2011 at 10:26 [UT+1] »A friend of mine is living a bit "outside reality". I cant say if he's schizophrenic, but he definetily faces some realmental disorders.
In his chart, I see the pattern Waybread mentioned and I agree that a strongly afflicted C and B are clear
indicators.
He has a T-square with B on top and C&O as the other points. G is also involved, with a tB and uC.
So we have a complex 5 planet - "hard aspect" - pattern with orbs of around 1°-2°40''.
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Besides he has Do (ImMC) with an orb under 1°.

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Rainbow Seeker

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #11 - on: 20.05.2011 at 18:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Mitch Exceen on 19.05.2011 at 21:32 [UT+1]:
i actually think the boogeyman is out to get me, but what aspects would one look for if one wanted to detect schizophrenia or
psychopathy?

The Booeyman.... Sounds Plutonian to me..
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #12 - on: 20.05.2011 at 18:45 [UT+1] »I think a combination of indicators is most reliable. Some combination of the following, usually with hard
aspects, I-AS-MC, AI, CO, BO, BJ, OI, JI. JG with depression perhaps.

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Rahu

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #13 - on: 20.05.2011 at 18:48 [UT+1] »look for mno to uranus by the conscious planets DCBA.
and look for no of neptune and saturn. the inclusion of the moon sonsatrun usually just gives a bipolartendency or a variation there of.with the paranoid component the influence of neptune must be present.
milo

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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #14 - on: 20.05.2011 at 18:50 [UT+1] »In John Nash's chart, I o AS/MC which is perfectly fitting except that the orb is a bit wide. On the other hand,the claimed birthtime is 7:00 suggesting approximation, so a four to ten minute adjustment would bring in aclose orb.
Nijinski's exact time is not known, but an hour more or less could engage either Ascendant or MC with the EI
midpoint.
So little is known of Kaczynski's exact time that his chart must be eliminated for consideration.
[edited to add]
Plus a EIAS or MC would fit for dancing.

I (artful) E(motion)

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #15 - on: 20.05.2011 at 19:03 [UT+1] »I think John Wayne Gacy qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has Neptune opposed the Sun-Moon
conjunct not too far from the angles.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #16 - on: 20.05.2011 at 19:05 [UT+1] »...and CoO (G)Posts: 1331
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #17 - on: 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1] »Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium with ABI.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #18 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:02 [UT+1] »yeah, but also EoJ. If J is mASC even more...

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #19 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:04 [UT+1] »Quote from _Bojan_ on 20.05.2011 at 20:02 [UT+1]:
yeah, but also

EoJ. If J is mASC even more...

That helped to make him a killer, not insane. That square speaks of his dangerousness. There are plenty ofdangerous people who are not 'crazy'.
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Rainbow Seeker
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #20 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium withABI.

So i'm curoius Baxter what do you think defines this guy as a Psychopath or near abouts? Anyone else looking
at this chart might give the guy a prize, he wins in the "Dog and Pony" show.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #21 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:08 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 20:05 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium withABI.

So i'm curoius Baxter what do you think defines this guy as a Psychopath or near abouts? Anyone else looking at this chart might give theguy a prize, he wins in the "Dog and Pony" show after all the guy was a "Doctor"....

Landru was no doctor. He was a serial killer with a strange lack of remorse or empathy. He hid most of thebodies, so there are probably more victims who were never found. He seduced women in order to kill them anddispose of the bodies.
He was married once, and he never killed his wife.
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Rainbow Seeker
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #22 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:16 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 20:05 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium withABI.

So i'm curoius Baxter what do you think defines this guy as a Psychopath or near abouts? Anyone else looking at this chart
might give the guy a prize, he wins in the "Dog and Pony" show after all the guy was a "Doctor"....

Landru was no doctor. He was a serial killer with a strange lack of remorse or empathy. He hid most of the bodies, so there are probably
more victims who were never found. He seduced women in order to kill them and dispose of the bodies.
He was married once, and he never killed his wife.

But you haven't answered the question what is it in that chart that defined landru as a "Bluebeard"? You said
the A/B/I.
The EoJ is suspect..but lots of people have I tied up with there A/B , lots of people have EoJ. With thetrinal nature of his chart,couldn't he have done somethiing else?
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #23 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:16 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium with

ABI.

what you would say about the aspect between Saturn and Pluto to be indicative of the cruel behaviour?

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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #24 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:19 [UT+1] »Quote from chang*ling on 20.05.2011 at 20:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium with

ABI.

what you would say about the aspect between Saturn and Pluto to be indicative of the cruel behaviour?

Yes. In many cases it implies cruelty.
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chang*lingMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #25 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:25 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 20:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from chang*ling on 20.05.2011 at 20:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium with

ABI.

what you would say about the aspect between Saturn and Pluto to be indicative of the cruel behaviour?

Posts: 3624

Yes. In many cases it implies cruelty.

this aspect combined with the hard aspect including Neptune would create a scenario of being "other worldly"?
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #26 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:26 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 20:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 20:05 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium withABI.

So i'm curoius Baxter what do you think defines this guy as a Psychopath or near abouts? Anyone elselooking at this chart might give the guy a prize, he wins in the "Dog and Pony" show after all the guy was a"Doctor"....

Landru was no doctor. He was a serial killer with a strange lack of remorse or empathy. He hid most of the bodies, so
there are probably more victims who were never found. He seduced women in order to kill them and dispose of the bodies.
He was married once, and he never killed his wife.

But you haven't answered the question what is it in that chart that defined landru as a "Bluebeard"? You said theThe

A/B/I.

EoJ is suspect..but lots of people have I tied up with there A/B , lots of people have EoJ. With the trinal nature of his

chart,couldn't he have done somethiing else?

We learn astrology best through hindsight. With hindsight, we might scan the charts of psychopaths and see a
preponderance of Neptune emphasized, for example. And we might go so far as to find a 'signature' forpsychopathy, but it does not follow that everyone with such indicators will be psychopaths, or for that matter itdoes not follow that a majority will be psychopaths. Everywhere in astrology we see this dynamic. Nowhere do
we see an unequivocal sign of a certain human anomoly that always indicates something remarkable. Astrology
simply does not work that way and most astrologers understand this. If we find Neptune a cuprit, it does notfollow that all Neptunians are psychopaths.
And I believe I did answer your question. Your question was, why do I consider him a psychopath. Answer:
enthusiastic serial killer with little remorse. And as I said earlier, Sun-Neptune contact is the indicator (probably
others).
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #27 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:27 [UT+1] »Quote from chang*ling on 20.05.2011 at 20:25 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 20:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from chang*ling on 20.05.2011 at 20:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium with

ABI.

what you would say about the aspect between Saturn and Pluto to be indicative of the cruel behaviour?

Yes. In many cases it implies cruelty.
this aspect combined with the hard aspect including Neptune would create a scenario of being "other worldly"?

Possibly; depends on the chart as a whole. What's your point?
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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #28 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 20:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 20:08 [UT+1]:
Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 20:05 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 19:14 [UT+1]:
Landru qualifies as a psychopath, or nearabouts. He has a stellium withABI.

So i'm curoius Baxter what do you think defines this guy as a Psychopath or near abouts? Anyone elselooking at this chart might give the guy a prize, he wins in the "Dog and Pony" show after all the guy was a"Doctor"....

Landru was no doctor. He was a serial killer with a strange lack of remorse or empathy. He hid most of the bodies, so
there are probably more victims who were never found. He seduced women in order to kill them and dispose of the bodies.
He was married once, and he never killed his wife.

But you haven't answered the question what is it in that chart that defined landru as a "Bluebeard"? You said the

EoJ

The
is suspect..but lots of people havechart,couldn't he have done somethiing else?

A/B/I.

I tied up with there A/B , lots of people have EoJ. With the trinal nature of his

A very close Grand Trine is in fact a hard aspect (there are three oppositions to midpoints), most especiallywhen the planets involved are unfriendly. The ghoulish stellium is combined with a very close EGD grandtrine which is descriptive of his nature, and altogether suggestive of a disturbed sexuality. Mars-square-Plutoadds the preditor.
If you see a Grand Trine that is within 2o orb at all points, I would, depending on content, consider it a malefic
aspect. A skew grand trine is another matter in most cases.
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Rainbow Seeker

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #29 - on: 20.05.2011 at 20:51 [UT+1] »"We learn astrology best through hindsight. With hindsight, we might scan the charts of psychopaths and see a
preponderance of Neptune emphasized, for example. And we might go so far as to find a 'signature' forpsychopathy, but it does not follow that everyone with such indicators will be psychopaths, or for that matter itdoes not follow that a majority will be psychopaths. Everywhere in astrology we see this dynamic. Nowhere do
we see an unequivocal sign of a certain human anomoly that always indicates something remarkable. Astrology
simply does not work that way and most astrologers understand this. If we find Neptune a cuprit, it does notfollow that all Neptunians are psychopaths.
And I believe I did answer your question. Your question was, why do I consider him a psychopath. Answer:
enthusiastic serial killer with little remorse. And as I said earlier, Sun-Neptune contact is the indicator (probably
others). "Perfectly vague Mr.Baxter. We know what a socialapath/psychopath is...you haven't quite said what makes
Landru a psychopath/socialpath. Hindsight is 50/50..though you might learn best through hindsight...astrology
is best practiced with foresight. Thats what I've learned.
Not that I'm attacking you , its just that I know alot of would ask "why"? lots of people have confused
Neptunes...lots of people have E/J contacts .. does that make them serial killers? I mean that , by looking
atthis guys charts..He'd probably would have won in a "dog and Pony" show. Outwardly, a respectable guy,
maybe good looking, maybe well spoken of by survivors. How would you know from looking at this guy that he
was a serial killer, that he chopped up women , put the body parts in an oven or possibly partially ate them?
Though I get the general idea of Landru's charts, and Some of what you have said.
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #30 - on: 20.05.2011 at 21:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 20:27 [UT+1]:
Possibly; depends on the chart as a whole. What's your point?

i dont really have a point and apologize for my leading questions. i thank you for your answers.
i agree it would take the whole chart to fully realize the subjects potential and with the imposed societies moral

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to offset this as to become manifest, but is it at all possibly for such a chart to have a different outcome? woulda different set of morals create a different perspective in the subject and hence a change of behaviour?
was this man in question fully aware of what he chose to be or was he coerced by circumstance that he could
not bypass? was the lack of truth the cause of this mans downfall and could a change of belief be helpful increating better equipped individuals to reach their fullest potentials? i do not need these questions answered
but am provoking thoughts that could create illustrations for a better understanding of why we do certain
things that seem beyond our own control.

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Rainbow Seeker

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #31 - on: 20.05.2011 at 21:13 [UT+1] »Baxter , isn't he and his wife that got tied up with some "Guru" in an ashram?

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Stephen Baxter
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #32 - on: 20.05.2011 at 21:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 20:51 [UT+1]:"We learn astrology best through hindsight. With hindsight, we might scan the charts of psychopaths and see a preponderance of Neptuneemphasized, for example. And we might go so far as to find a 'signature' for psychopathy, but it does not follow that everyone with such
indicators will be psychopaths, or for that matter it does not follow that a majority will be psychopaths. Everywhere in astrology we see
this dynamic. Nowhere do we see an unequivocal sign of a certain human anomoly that always indicates something remarkable. Astrology
simply does not work that way and most astrologers understand this. If we find Neptune a cuprit, it does not follow that all Neptunians are
psychopaths.
And I believe I did answer your question. Your question was, why do I consider him a psychopath. Answer: enthusiastic serial killer withlittle remorse. And as I said earlier, Sun-Neptune contact is the indicator (probably others). "Perfectly vague Mr.Baxter. We know what a socialapath/psychopath is...you haven't quite said what makes Landru a psychopath/socialpath.
Hindsight is 50/50..though you might learn best through hindsight...astrology is best practiced with foresight. Thats what I've learned.
Not that I'm attacking you , its just that I know alot of would ask "why"? lots of people have confused Neptunes...lots of people have

E/J contacts .. does that make them serial killers? I mean that , by looking atthis guys charts..He'd probably would have won in a "dogand Pony" show. Outwardly, a respectable guy, maybe good looking, maybe well spoken of by survivors. How would you know fromlooking at this guy that he was a serial killer, that he chopped up women , put the body parts in an oven or possibly partially ate them?
Though I get the general idea of Landru's charts, and Some of what you have said.

I really never thought anyone would object to calling Henri Landru a psychopath. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps
he's only misunderstood and underappreciated.
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #33 - on: 20.05.2011 at 21:16 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 21:13 [UT+1]:
Baxter , isn't he and his wife that got tied up with some "Guru" in an ashram?

Look at his birthdate. I think you are confusing him with someone else.
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Rainbow Seeker
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #34 - on: 20.05.2011 at 21:21 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 21:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 21:13 [UT+1]:
Baxter , isn't he and his wife that got tied up with some "Guru" in an ashram?

Look at his birthdate. I think you are confusing him with someone else.

I'm talking about you....
What I'm asking here , and maybe its a dumb questions. In spite of what we say about Mr landru, if you evermet him in person, How would you know he's a serial killer?
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Stephen Baxter

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #35 - on: 20.05.2011 at 21:23 [UT+1] »Quote from chang*ling on 20.05.2011 at 21:06 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 20:27 [UT+1]:
Possibly; depends on the chart as a whole. What's your point?

i dont really have a point and apologize for my leading questions. i thank you for your answers.
i agree it would take the whole chart to fully realize the subjects potential and with the imposed societies moral to offset this as tobecome manifest, but is it at all possibly for such a chart to have a different outcome? would a different set of morals create a different
perspective in the subject and hence a change of behaviour?
was this man in question fully aware of what he chose to be or was he coerced by circumstance that he could not bypass? was the lack oftruth the cause of this mans downfall and could a change of belief be helpful in creating better equipped individuals to reach their fullest
potentials? i do not need these questions answered but am provoking thoughts that could create illustrations for a better understanding of
why we do certain things that seem beyond our own control.

I don't believe his fate, or his behavior if you will, was ineluctable. Some people are certainly more compulsive
than others, however. His urges may have been very great.
When the courts excuse a killer for reasons of insanity, this usually excludes psychopaths. The courts treat
psychopaths as people of evil intent who will likely continue their slaughter. There is no cure or treatment forpsychopathy, and it is considered a pathology because the behavior is so abherrant and dangerous, but it is not
excused as one might excuse a psychotic who cannot recognize reality or its opposite. Many psychopaths know
right from wrong I believe. They just arrogantly do what they want regardless of the harm done. They may
revel in the harm.
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Squidgel
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #36 - on: 20.05.2011 at 22:33 [UT+1] »Stephen, I was interested in what you said about the grand trines. Here is the chart of someone who is anarcissist, with a psychopath brother. They really seem to feed off each other.
I have never seen so many grand trines, and one exact to the very degree.

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astro_w2gw_41_narcissist_hp.77245.12200.gif(attachment deleted)
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #37 - on: 20.05.2011 at 22:45 [UT+1] »big orbs - many trines

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LunarScorp
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #38 - on: 21.05.2011 at 00:55 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 21:21 [UT+1]:
Quote from Stephen Baxter on 20.05.2011 at 21:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 20.05.2011 at 21:13 [UT+1]:
Baxter , isn't he and his wife that got tied up with some "Guru" in an ashram?

Look at his birthdate. I think you are confusing him with someone else.

I'm talking about you....

Posts: 526
Gender:What I'm asking here , and maybe its a dumb questions. In spite of what we say about Mr landru, if you ever met him in person, How
would you know he's a serial killer?

You wouldnt, that's what makes serial killers/ psychopathic murderers so dangerous; they are usually charming
and well spoken and it is hard to pin point their real intentions because they hide behind a glib, social mask.
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Geoffrey Hillend

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #39 - on: 21.05.2011 at 00:59 [UT+1] »I included the planets and aspects related to complexes or fears like Saturn Pluto and Chiron Pluto because they
can represent negative values and the subjects absolute values. Something is considered absolutely bad forexample: the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski considered computer technology and industry to be absolutely bad.
Posts: 2200

Technology has it’s flaws but it does more good than bad. We are always improving and changing technology;
computer technology represents freedom and consciousness; it will bring an ever increasing freedom forcivilization.
He has the Sun conjunct both Saturn and Uranus, and Pluto sextiles all three. Chiron is conjunct Pluto. Uranus
represents industry, computers and technology. Saturn Uranus and a strong Uranus can represent a law unto
oneself an anarchist or revolutionary when the transpersonal meanings of Uranus are not seen or are
unconscious so the negative aspects of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are expressed when their transpersonal
meanings are not known.
He also has a strong Neptune which aspects the Sun, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus in his chart sohe became a self-appointed philosopher with the absolute truth.. He is ego inflated. With Saturn-Neptune orstrong Neptune the subject can become a self-appointed messiah or missionary of some kind.
He has Mars trining the south node and Pluto is biquintilling it. The south node is like Saturn. Isabel Hickey
wrote that Mars combined with Saturn Pluto aspects can represent someone who is sadistic and I think that istrue in some cases: Mars in aspect to Pluto with the nodes can also indicate ruthlessness if the rest of the chart
is afflicted or has many complex transpersonal/archetypal combinations with the outer planets etc or natal
combinations which need a lot of introspection and intuition to understand.

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Rainbow Seeker
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #40 - on: 21.05.2011 at 02:22 [UT+1] »I think the thing that disturbs me about landru's chart is the idea that with a background like his
Suppose you met the guy, in his heyday.
Would you have been able to recognize the guy?
Suppose he even presented you with his chart....would have been able to "finger" the guy.
With a chart like Landru's the answer is probably ...no....in fact during his trial landau had to practically confess
to the murders before anyone would believehim. The thing about that chart is all those tribes,concerning D/G..probably lended him slot of respectability.
If you were having lunch with the unabomber...and he gave you his chart... George... Would you have beenable. To I'd him based on your astrological knowledge.. Or is hindsight 50/50?
Type on iPod..could'nt afford an ipad2
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Geoffrey Hillend

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #41 - on: 21.05.2011 at 04:25 [UT+1] »There is no way I would know just by looking at Henri Desire Landru just by looking at him but if you had achance to ask him a few questions like what do you do for a living? it might help you.
I read Landru's bio on wikipedia so I can do a short chart interpretation.
Posts: 2200

Henri Desire Landru is great chart to study violent sociopaths. Most of his planets are in the fire signs. He hasno air sign planets so he lacks objectivity. His value system shows he does not value the anima or thearchetypal feminine. He has only one water sign planet and Earth sign planet. His fourth house, represented by
the emotions is afflicted by that Mars conjunct the north node square Pluto. It is involved in a grand trine infire with the Sun, Moon, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune. This stellium is all in the 12th house.
Pluto in Taurus forces him to have values which go beyond the material, money, possessions etc. Neptune, theTwelfth challenge the individual to go beyond selfishness and self centeredness and the personal will; He hasthat stellium including his Sun in the twelfth house and Neptune trines his Mars. Too much of an externalsense of control and power based only on survival and the need to conquer, control, and dominate will only see
the anima and passiveness and receptiveness to be weak. As a result, there is not any introversion and novalues beyond the material. Neptune knocks out his sense of external power if there is no outlet for Neptune.
He has a heavily aspected Neptune and Aries stelllium in the 12th which challenge him to go beyond selfcenteredness. Instead of the prophet, the sage, the guru, the priest, the creative artist or musician, or
professional athlete, the leader we have criminal, the sociopath.
Saturn is in the eight house, and Saturn in conjuncts Pluto squaring the nodes. The eight house represents
other peoples money, joint resources, sex death, rebirth and regeneration. His Saturn in the eight is trined by
Neptune, Inconjuncted by Uranus and Pluto. Saturn is the focal planet of a yod configuration which indicatesthe need to regenerate his eight house values beyond material values. The need for absolute personal freedom
with Uranus there is impossible. There is an untamed wildness there with Saturn in Sagittarius intensified by
Pluto, and eight house and Mars trinning Saturn.
In alchemy, Aries represented the affective and instinctual nature of man and it’s subjugation andtransformation was part of the opus. He was controlled by his desires, the appetites of the body, the basic
instincts.

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Geoffrey Hillend
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #42 - on: 21.05.2011 at 04:34 [UT+1] »I would include Mars Pluto and Pluto in his first house conjunct his ascendant as an indicator of violent
ruthlessness in Landu's chart of course combined with all the other planetary aspects, and their houses, signs
etc.

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Rainbow Seeker

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #43 - on: 21.05.2011 at 11:06 [UT+1] »Great interpretation, but still the 1,000,000 question is ...............that if the adult Henry Landru were sitting infront of you ( followed by Ted Kasinski), you were interiewing this guy for a job, and you had there charts rightin front of you, would you be abvle to finger Ted. K as a "unabomber", or Henry landru as "Blackbeard'?Basedon your analysis?
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #44 - on: 21.05.2011 at 16:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 21.05.2011 at 11:06 [UT+1]:
Great interpretation, but still the 1,000,000 question is ...............that if the adult Henry Landru were sitting in front of you ( followed by
Ted Kasinski), you were interiewing this guy for a job, and you had there charts right in front of you, would you be abvle to finger Ted. K
as a "unabomber", or Henry landru as "Blackbeard'?Based on your analysis?

In the case of Landru, I would be very alarmed, but I doubt I could say, "he will seduce and kill several
women", or "he is a psychopath". I would worry that he was violent and dangerous, and I would worry about
any of his love interests. Not all such charts are so alarming as his.
In the case of Ted K., not enough is known about his chart, so the answer is no.
But that is not the OP. The OP was not, "How do you predict with infallibility?". See what I said abouthindsight above.
We are looking for the roots of schizophrenia and psychopathy as if we were looking for the indicators of
religiosity. This is not a futile exercise for astrologers. Using hindsight to learn the ropes is at the very heart ofthe study of astrology.
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Stephen Baxter

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #45 - on: 21.05.2011 at 16:37 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 21.05.2011 at 02:22 [UT+1]:
I think the thing that disturbs me about landru's chart is the idea that with a background like his
Suppose you met the guy, in his heyday.
Would you have been able to recognize the guy?
Suppose he even presented you with his chart....would have been able to "finger" the guy.
With a chart like Landru's the answer is probably ...no....in fact during his trial landau had to practically confess to the murders before
anyone would believehim. The thing about that chart is all those tribes,concerning

D/G..probably lended him slot of respectability.

If you were having lunch with the unabomber...and he gave you his chart... George... Would you have been able. To I'd him based on yourastrological knowledge.. Or is hindsight 50/50?
Type on iPod..could'nt afford an ipad2

Landru was able to escape detection for so long due to the bureaucratic confusion of WWI. They finally caught
him after the war was over. There were a number of women in the courtroom who were highly sympathetic to
Landru and who were convinced that he was innocent. Observers suggested that these women bore a striking
resemblence to the women he had murdered.
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #46 - on: 22.05.2011 at 20:04 [UT+1] »Quote from Rainbow Seeker on 22.05.2011 at 00:56 [UT+1]:
Harvey Milk's chart, was this guy destined for death? With the

E/G/J?

"As an openly gay political figure, Milk received many death threats. Trying to send a positive and credible image to the people of San
Francisco, Milk changed his behavior of frequenting the gay bathhouses when he entered public life.
Milk had taken the vacated seat of Dan White, a troubled anti-gay conservative supervisor who had quit. White asked Mayor George
Moscone to allow him to return to the Board with a raise. When Moscone refused his request, on 11/27/1978 White opened fire, shot andkilled the mayor and put two bullets into the brain of Harvey Milk at San Francisco City Hall. Fellow supervisor Dianne Feinstein alerted
the media about the tragedy. The city erupted in violence after Milk's death. White received a lenient sentence of five years in jail andparole. " Astrodienst's Astro-Wiki"

This topic has come up before. It is widely seen that the charts of murderers and their victims show striking
similarities. The similarity is that the chart contains the theme "murder". Astrology is not well equipped toprove guilt or innocence in the legal sense.
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Geoffrey Hillend

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #47 - on: 22.05.2011 at 22:26 [UT+1] »A murder is related to violence EGJ with a strong Neptune also. A violent temper or agressiveness,
toughness, competitiveness, etc is associated with EJ. These aspects can have more than one expression.
Police officers, FBI, soldiers, fighters, athletes and martial artists sometimes have EGJ.
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Geoffrey Hillend
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #48 - on: 22.05.2011 at 22:40 [UT+1] »I was thinking about Landu's chart and what Liz Greene wrote about Saturn in the fire signs and a negative
expression of Saturn in Sagittarius; the connection with the whole, the broader view can be lost or cut off. A
sense of faith is lost as a result. The ego and will revolves around itself.

Posts: 2200

In the middle ages the outer planets were known only intuitively through the signs and houses. When a planet
past through the eighth house for example, its effects were observed. Only the concrete meanings of the outerplanets were known but not the myth's, archetypes and symbolism and images associated with them. They
were taken too literally or fatalistically. My point is that when the transpersonal meanings of the outer planets
are not known but only the concrete meanings, their more negative aspects manifest.
If a chart lacks air, the subject can lack objectivity; ideas and concepts are not studied which are related toabstract thought rather than only concrete thought and the mind trapped in physical form. Saturn is the mind
trapped in form.
Alchemy struggled with fate versus free will which was a problem with the fatalistic zeitgeist of the middle ages
in order to over come Heimarmene, the compulsion of the stars through symbolic understanding.

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Rainbow Seeker

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #49 - on: 23.05.2011 at 01:34 [UT+1] »Dan White's chart. Looked up White,s chart in my Vedic program, there is this...
"Garuda Yoga
Garuda yoga occurs when the ruler of the navamsa sign of the Moon is in its own or exaltation sign, the Sun isin the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th or 12th house, and the Moon is waxing.
According to Raman: "Respected by the pious, polished speech, feared by the enemies, strong and facing
danger from poison in the 34th year. The danger should not be predicted if the house of longevity is strong."
Remember that ancient Vedic interpretations are not literally true! Any astrological influence can also be
positive."
Also in the vedic analysis in alot of these homicide charts , I've seemed to see alot of these.
"Neecha Bhanga Raja Yoga, with Mars
There are many kinds of Neecha Bhanga Raja yoga. (a) A planet is in its exaltation rasi, the ruler of that
exaltation rasi is Mars, and Mars is in a kendra (1st, 4th, 7th or 10th) house from the Ascendant or the Moon,or (b) A planet is in the rasi of its fall, the ruler of that rasi is Mars, and Mars is in a kendra (1st, 4th, 7th or10th) house, or (c) A planet is in the rasi of its fall, the ruler of that rasi is Mars, and the planet is inconjunction with or aspected by the Moon.
According to Manasagari: "Wealthy, lasting fame, wise, talented, travels through the night, a thief, cruel."
In your chart a planet is in the rasi of its fall, the ruler of that rasi is Mars, and Mars is in a kendra (1st, 4th, 7thor 10th) house from Moon or Ascendant."
This kind of Raja Yoga isn't that uncommon, in fact its supposed to be positive .. though indicated someparticular planet is featured. I notice E alot. Ah yeah, Dan White was a police officer.
But T.Bundy has that, so does Landru..they all have strong Mars.
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #50 - on: 23.05.2011 at 14:19 [UT+1] »Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 22.05.2011 at 22:40 [UT+1]:
I was thinking about Landu's chart and what Liz Greene wrote about Saturn in the fire signs and a negative expression of Saturn in
Sagittarius; the connection with the whole, the broader view can be lost or cut off. A sense of faith is lost as a result. The ego and will
revolves around itself.
In the middle ages the outer planets were known only intuitively through the signs and houses. When a planet past through the eighthhouse for example, its effects were observed. Only the concrete meanings of the outer planets were known but not the myth's, archetypes
and symbolism and images associated with them. They were taken too literally or fatalistically. My point is that when the transpersonal
meanings of the outer planets are not known but only the concrete meanings, their more negative aspects manifest.
If a chart lacks air, the subject can lack objectivity; ideas and concepts are not studied which are related to abstract thought rather than
only concrete thought and the mind trapped in physical form. Saturn is the mind trapped in form.
Alchemy struggled with fate versus free will which was a problem with the fatalistic zeitgeist of the middle ages in order to over come
Heimarmene, the compulsion of the stars through symbolic understanding.

There are so many people that have Saturn in Fire, and so very many people who lack air, but a psychopathic
serial killer is not so commonplace. This is a disconnect. The key to Landru's chart (he is a rare human being)is the combination of influences, from the Aries stellium to the angular J(AS)oE to the gruesome
combination of stellium and grand trine with ABI all together in the mix. We should not tie mass murder tocommon astrological states for rather obvious reasons.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #51 - on: 23.05.2011 at 14:51 [UT+1] »Take a biopsychological view and maybe you can pin it down a little. The Amygdala is the organ in the brain
connected to the Limbic system that controls higher instinctual functions and is associated with the emotions
and the ability to FEEL emotions. The amygdalas of psychopaths are up to 15% smaller than in other people.
Researchers studied the brains of known serial killers and noticed the neural discrepancy.
The symptoms of a psychopath are an inability to feel Empathy, Narcissism, generally do not apologize (do not
see their actions as wrong), charming at first glance which is necessary to con artist type people.

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Serial killers are not the only psychopaths. The perpetual Gold Digger, Con artist, the person who can never say
I apologize, a good example of a non serial killer psychopath is Naomi Cambell and those who commit bigamy,and even your best friend could have sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies.
What sign/planet/house rules the Nervous System, and/or neural activity?

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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #52 - on: 23.05.2011 at 14:54 [UT+1] »And on behalf of schizophrenics, schizophrenia IS NOT psychopathy but the two disorders can be concurrent
but not likely. The one disorder that is predominantly connected with Schizophrenia II or negative schiz. isDepression or Bi-Polar.

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Geoffrey Hillend

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #53 - on: 24.05.2011 at 20:45 [UT+1] »Quote by Stephan Baxter:
Quote:
There are so many people that have Saturn in Fire, and so very many people who lack air, but a psychopathic serial killer is not so

Posts: 2200

commonplace. This is a disconnect. The key to Landru's chart (he is a rare human being) is the combination of influences, from the Aries
stellium to the angular (AS) to the gruesome combination of stellium and grand trine with all together in the mix. We should not tie massmurder to common astrological states for rather obvious reasons.

I agree with this but only if you talk about Saturn in Fire as a placement by itself, then it is a disconnect. Fire
has a self-mythologizing aspect to it which can be good or bad. The ego is centered in consciousness, the Sun.
The archetype of the Hero has a dark side and is not perfect. Without a shadow, the individual feels superior toothers so immorality is justified if he believes he is God. There might be a certain sense of ego inflation therewith Jupiter conjunct Neptune and Saturn in aspect to Neptune; Jupiter rules Sagittarus and is part of thepositive self image. Add a yod with the outer planets all in aspect to Saturn and the rest of his troublesome
horoscope placements and Saturn in Fire becomes one more extra challenge to overcome.
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Geoffrey Hillend
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #54 - on: 24.05.2011 at 20:54 [UT+1] »Astrological symbols only represent potential. It depends on whether the subject does the introspection andgains a higher level of consciousness. A similar chart today or in the future might not express itself in a similar
negative way.

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Geoffrey Hillend

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #55 - on: 25.05.2011 at 02:26 [UT+1] »The shadow does not see it's own reflection with shadow projection which can be associated with Saturn isinconjunct Pluto in Henri Landru's chart. Saturn is in the eight and Chiron in Aries semi-squares Pluto in Taurus
which can indicate absolute values when it comes to money.
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Ariel1
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #56 - on: 25.05.2011 at 06:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Rocket on 19.05.2011 at 21:01 [UT+1]:
Quote from Mitch Exceen on 19.05.2011 at 20:43 [UT+1]:
i know a guy who thinks the boogeyman is out to get him.

Posts: 926
Gender:what aspects are we looking for here? i would think

BoG

Mitch I'm guessin' it's unlikely, a real long shot, one could correlate astrology very well with mental illnesses. Astrology validity is often
barely discernible in many "normal" people .... folks with that kind of ideation are so out there how could you depend on any kind of
accuracy re: what they say about their experience.
I say this after decades of Jungian psychology, psychotherapy, medical, psychiatric, neuroscience, paranormal, altered states andmeditation related professional level training and first hand experience.
IMHO some hospitalized people are living out things other than "illness" .... some have content from the unconscious which may be "real"
in one reality getting switched with ordinary reality, or overlapping with normal reality in a way that does not agree with mainstream
consensus reality.

I believe that mental illness comes from living outide your ascendant, and not living out your horoscope.
Howard Sasportas says that happiness comes from being your true authentic self. It's more complicated thanthat I know, but I think that fear, and a loss of self, or splitting of the self can result in schizophrenia.
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Ariel1

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #57 - on: 25.05.2011 at 06:51 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 23.05.2011 at 14:54 [UT+1]:
And on behalf of schizophrenics, schizophrenia IS NOT psychopathy but the two disorders can be concurrent but not likely. The one disorderthat is predominantly connected with Schizophrenia II or negative schiz. is Depression or Bi-Polar.

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Gender:Thank you, I'm glad that you said that.

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Stephen Baxter
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #58 - on: 25.05.2011 at 14:35 [UT+1] »Quote from Ariel1 on 25.05.2011 at 06:50 [UT+1]:
Quote from Rocket on 19.05.2011 at 21:01 [UT+1]:
Quote from Mitch Exceen on 19.05.2011 at 20:43 [UT+1]:
i know a guy who thinks the boogeyman is out to get him.

what aspects are we looking for here? i would think

BoG

Mitch I'm guessin' it's unlikely, a real long shot, one could correlate astrology very well with mental illnesses. Astrology
validity is often barely discernible in many "normal" people .... folks with that kind of ideation are so out there how could
you depend on any kind of accuracy re: what they say about their experience.
I say this after decades of Jungian psychology, psychotherapy, medical, psychiatric, neuroscience, paranormal, alteredstates and meditation related professional level training and first hand experience.
IMHO some hospitalized people are living out things other than "illness" .... some have content from the unconscious which
may be "real" in one reality getting switched with ordinary reality, or overlapping with normal reality in a way that does
not agree with mainstream consensus reality.
I believe that mental illness comes from living outide your ascendant, and not living out your horoscope. Howard Sasportas says thathappiness comes from being your true authentic self. It's more complicated than that I know, but I think that fear, and a loss of self, or
splitting of the self can result in schizophrenia.

I think there is much truth to this, but the Ascendant is not the 'true self' the way the Sun is. I think in myresearch, I have also seen mental illness from other sources. For instance, I think Landru is well described byhis chart, so he is not living outside his true self. He did not seem to be altruistic at all, but not every
Neptunian type is. There are a variety of ways to live any indication, so such definitions for mental illness
become very difficult to apply in a practical way.
Astrology is an instructive lesson on being true to self, but mental illness may yet be more complicated than
this.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #59 - on: 25.05.2011 at 15:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Ariel1 on 25.05.2011 at 06:51 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 23.05.2011 at 14:54 [UT+1]:
And on behalf of schizophrenics, schizophrenia IS NOT psychopathy but the two disorders can be concurrent but not likely.
The one disorder that is predominantly connected with Schizophrenia II or negative schiz. is Depression or Bi-Polar.

Thank you, I'm glad that you said that.

Posts: 5489

You are so welcome.
The psychopath is typically able to function very well. In fact most psychopaths use
the skill of using charm to ease their way in. Not all psychopaths are physically brutal. The main theme is theircomplete disregard for others. They usually have a scheme for their hidden agenda. (a little 12th)

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Geoffrey Hillend
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #60 - on: 25.05.2011 at 21:08 [UT+1] »This thread does not say psychopathy IS schizophrenia. We can talk about these separately here.
Schizophrenics are mostly non-violent. Psychological astrologers associate Neptune schizophrenia; the dreamstate or imagination has completely taken over so the schizophrenic does not view reality; Neptune canPosts: 2200

represent madness, delusion, illusion, self-deception and escapism. The mythical world has taken the place ofreality.
In the imagination and the unconscious there is no distinction between myth and reality which is why it isimportant to understand symbolism and the images connected to the signs and planets of astrology. The
imago's or images of myth are projected onto physical equivalents; the projections have to be withdrawn from
real, material things and people. This can be a problem for even normal people but it is extreme inschizophrenia.
There is always a small grain of truth in every hypothesis, theory and belief. The key is that with some beliefs,
the truth is more psychological, symbolic and non material than real. If one can see the archetype in the belief
then the unconscious projection can be withdrawn, and the real discriminated from the imaginary. There isalways some kind of exaggeration or extreme in it; it is over-valued or undervalued or feared.

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Stephen Baxter

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #61 - on: 25.05.2011 at 21:21 [UT+1] »In my work, I have seen that Neptune might just as easily be involved with psychopaths as schizophrenics.
When dealing with single-planet symbolism, it is broad-based and general. Neptune is madness in general(among other things--alas, a single planet symbol is general and multi-purpose).
I am not disputing anyone who wants to split hairs about psychological terminology, I am speaking as anexperienced astrologer only. I accept that there are very important differences between psychopaths andschizophrenics, but astrology is equally likely to mark them both with a generous dose of Neptune.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #62 - on: 25.05.2011 at 21:52 [UT+1] »The title of the thread is schizophrenia and psychopathy with an emphasis on the psychopathy.
It is not splitting hairs. Schizophrenia is a disassociation from reality versus a complete inability to empathize
and feel emotion. Ted Bundy, Jefferey Dalhmer, JW Gacey, and even Jack the Ripper were very aware ofthemselves their surroundings and what they were doing. Psychopaths do not as a rule hallucinate. Splitting
hairs can make the difference between an good accurate diagnosis and mis-diagnosis. I noticed Mars in the firstin Bundy and Dan White's chart. In Bundy there is a Moon Pluto aspect. I associate Pluto with psychopathy
more than Neptune.

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phoenix12

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #63 - on: 25.05.2011 at 21:56 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 25.05.2011 at 21:52 [UT+1]:
I associate Pluto with psychopathy more than Neptune.

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Agreed.
BTW, schizophrenia's defining characteristic is "hearing voices".
which are associated with "madness" (whatever that means).

This could be Uranus or Neptune, both of

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IP Loggedramez nas
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #64 - on: 25.05.2011 at 22:03 [UT+1] »Quote from phoenix12 on 25.05.2011 at 21:56 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 25.05.2011 at 21:52 [UT+1]:
I associate Pluto with psychopathy more than Neptune.

Agreed.
BTW, schizophrenia's defining characteristic is "hearing voices". This could be Uranus or Neptune, both of which are associated with"madness" (whatever that means).

I'm sorry, but "hearing voices" can also be the characteristic of other psychotic states like psychotic mania,
depression or paranoia.
What you refer to as "madness" or "psychosys" is basically loosing touch with reality. Schizophrenia is one typeof psychosys.
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phoenix12

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #65 - on: 25.05.2011 at 22:06 [UT+1] »So, would you suggest Uranus or Neptune for schizophrenia?

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #66 - on: 25.05.2011 at 22:12 [UT+1] »Quote from phoenix12 on 25.05.2011 at 22:06 [UT+1]:
So, would you suggest Uranus or Neptune for schizophrenia?

OK, let's see. The word schizophrenia stems from greek schysys (splitting) and phren (mind or soul) meaningthat the personality's different functions (feeling, senses, thinking) don't work in accordance. The person falls
into peaces.. I'd rather go for J as it is the planet of nuclear explosion and expresses falling into constituents
better than O or I.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #67 - on: 26.05.2011 at 02:19 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez nas on 25.05.2011 at 22:12 [UT+1]:
Quote from phoenix12 on 25.05.2011 at 22:06 [UT+1]:
So, would you suggest Uranus or Neptune for schizophrenia?

OK, let's see. The word schizophrenia stems from greek schysys (splitting) and phren (mind or soul) meaning that the personality's
different functions (feeling, senses, thinking) don't work in accordance. The person falls into peaces.. I'd rather go forplanet of nuclear explosion and expresses falling into constituents better thanJ as it is the

O or I.

Posts: 5489

Pluto would certainly play in the original psychotic break. If the depressed person is experiencing hallucinations
then they more than likely have schizoid/schizophrenic tendencies. Depression in of its self does not bearhallucinations but is the one disorder as well as bi-polar disorder that will coincide with schizophrenia.
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Geoffrey Hillend
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #68 - on: 26.05.2011 at 03:02 [UT+1] »I agree that the lines between schizophrenia and psychopathy are not distinct at some point. Paranoid
schizophrenia involves shadow projection so I can see Pluto being connected to it; Chiron-Pluto and Saturn-Posts: 2200

Pluto in potential depending on the level of understanding of the individual and the rest of the chart, aspects
etc. Absolute values are involved with shadow projection; the opposites of good and bad have to be united orboth found within but not only without. There is polarization of the opposites with absolute values.
All the outer planets can be combined together in the horoscopes with schizophrenia and psychopathy. The arecomplex so many different archetypes are combines. There are certainly key aspects here which is what I think
we all mean when we point out a certain aspect but not that it is enough by itself to explain everything. I
agree with Stephan Baxter that is it is too limiting attribute it to just one planet, placement, or aspect. MarsPluto or Pluto ascendant, Mars in the eight or Pluto in the first is certainly and important part in most violent
forms of psychopathy. The nodes of the Moon in Aries or a planet in Aries in aspect to Pluto with some otherchallenging aspects and rest of the chart like above might represent the same thing.
A crucial aspect in the "word salad" or disorganized type of schizophrenia might involve Neptune and Mercury.
If one is going to name a specific planet then it goes with a specific disorder. More than one placement must
be included with the grab bag type of schizophrenia which involves all three types; the disorganized, thecatatonic and the paranoid. Hallucinations must be included under delusions and Neptune's symbolism because
they are not something that is not there. Recent unknowns which need further study in neuroscience are thepossible activation of the image and voice portions of the brain during the hallucinations and voices ofschizophrenics. If found to be true then such hallucinations are real like the images of the active imagination.
They are considered to be not real by some neuroscientist's who think they are only the product of chemicals
in the brain. According to Jung, they come from the unconscious psyche.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #69 - on: 26.05.2011 at 05:51 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 26.05.2011 at 02:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from ramez nas on 25.05.2011 at 22:12 [UT+1]:
Quote from phoenix12 on 25.05.2011 at 22:06 [UT+1]:
So, would you suggest Uranus or Neptune for schizophrenia?

OK, let's see. The word schizophrenia stems from greek schysys (splitting) and phren (mind or soul) meaning that thepersonality's different functions (feeling, senses, thinking) don't work in accordance. The person falls into peaces.. I'drather go for

J as it is the planet of nuclear explosion and expresses falling into constituents better than O or I.

Pluto would certainly play in the original psychotic break. If the depressed person is experiencing hallucinations then they more than likely
have schizoid/schizophrenic tendencies. Depression in of its self does not bear hallucinations but is the one disorder as well as bi-polar
disorder that will coincide with schizophrenia.

Disagree. Psychotic depression and mania do bear acoustic or other type of hallucinations but thesehallucinations are congruent with the patient's emotional state (e.g.: a depressed person can see the devil
saying they should commit suicide as they are worthless). Coincide? What do you mean? There are distinct
diagnostic criteria for the three and their ethiology is different too.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #70 - on: 26.05.2011 at 06:02 [UT+1] »Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 26.05.2011 at 03:02 [UT+1]:
I agree that the lines between schizophrenia and psychopathy are not distinct at some point..

Please, people, there is no such thing as psychopathy any more. It's an old term for Antisocial Personality
Disorder and it has as much to do with scizophrenia as a monkey with a camel race. And yes, Geoffrey, the lines
are very much distinct.
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #71 - on: 26.05.2011 at 09:57 [UT+1] »the process of creation is three fold, thought, word and deed. if there is a divergence in this then an anomaly ofsorts arises. this can either manifest in thoughts, words or deeds. psychologists and therapists try and workwith these problems by rectifying the underlying mal-adjustment that has been manifested. in some cases theroot lies in a chemical imbalance in the brains functioning which sets off a sequence of events that is viewed asabnormal, sometimes it is caused by incorrect thinking induced by false information.
as was mentioned before schizophrenia is a split between mind and heart. we learn to override our emotional
state from an early age and this can lead to trauma that affect us the rest of our lives.
the destruction of our planet, when we know this is our life support system is schizophrenia in action.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #72 - on: 26.05.2011 at 10:33 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez nas on 26.05.2011 at 05:51 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 26.05.2011 at 02:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from ramez nas on 25.05.2011 at 22:12 [UT+1]:
Quote from phoenix12 on 25.05.2011 at 22:06 [UT+1]:
So, would you suggest Uranus or Neptune for schizophrenia?

OK, let's see. The word schizophrenia stems from greek schysys (splitting) and phren (mind or soul)meaning that the personality's different functions (feeling, senses, thinking) don't work in accordance. The

Posts: 5489

person falls into peaces.. I'd rather go for
into constituents better thanJ as it is the planet of nuclear explosion and expresses falling

O or I.

Pluto would certainly play in the original psychotic break. If the depressed person is experiencing hallucinations then they
more than likely have schizoid/schizophrenic tendencies. Depression in of its self does not bear hallucinations but is theone disorder as well as bi-polar disorder that will coincide with schizophrenia.

Disagree. Psychotic depression and mania do bear acustic or other type of hallucinations but these hallucinations are congruent with thepatient's emotional state (e.g.: a depressed person can see the devil saying they should commit suicide as they are worthless). Coincide?
What do you mean? There are distinct diagnostic criteria for the three and their ethiology is different too.

At this point I must ask if you are a psychologist ramez.. I am getting ready to get my first degree and will bemoving on to hopefully getting my doctoral if I don't die first. Try DSMIV my texts and research I have done.
My prof would love that you disagree with criteria.
If you wish to argue~ I refuse.
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy

EnigmeMember« Reply #73 - on: 26.05.2011 at 10:35 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez nas on 26.05.2011 at 06:02 [UT+1]:
Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 26.05.2011 at 03:02 [UT+1]:
I agree that the lines between schizophrenia and psychopathy are not distinct at some point..

Please, people, there is no such thing as psychopathy any more. It's an old term for Antisocial Personality Disorder and it has as much to
do with scizophrenia as a monkey with a camel race. And yes, Geoffrey, the lines are very much distinct.

Posts: 5489

Geoffrey etal have shown greater insight than you ramez..
archaic I don't think so.. and your approach to Geoffrey and I is at least for me perceived as very rude.
http://www.hum.utah.edu/~bbenham/Minds%20and%20Morals/06%20Blair%20Empathy%20in%20psychopathy%20Chapter%20in%20Empathy%20in%20psychiatric%20illness.pdf
http://www.icn.ucl.ac.uk/nih-gpp/Faculty_files/Blair-Viding-NIMH-GPP-project.pdf
http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/juvenile-violence/pdf/psychopathy-con duct-disorderand-stigma.pdf
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia/what-are-the-symptoms- ofschizophrenia.shtml
Note lack of pleasure in negative schizophrenia is also a symptom of Depressiion.
You are wrong again. Maybe you should study some classes it is still relevant and those who have been know
psychopaths ie Bundy have smaller than usual amygdalas.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #74 - on: 26.05.2011 at 10:50 [UT+1] »Well, Eyesis, I guess you should be looking for symptoms of psychotic depression in DSM before the exam oryour professor will be disappointed with you believing that positive symptoms only exist in scizophrenia.
Yes, I am a clinical psychologist and I work at a psychiatric ward doing mainly diagnostic work.
Please, show me where psychopathy is in DSM VI TR. It doesn't exist in clinical practice.
Geoffrey doing greater work than me means you approve of his saying psyhopathy and scizophrenia are notdistinct? Well, your opinion. Be happy with it. Not true nontheless.
The truth is rude? Sorry I couldn't go on reading this thread where there was no distinction between psychosys,
psychopathy and such. You cannot talk about mental illnesses as a foggy mass as they are not. I usually don't
jump in such threads but I read so much stupidity here.
Talking on behalf of patients.
regardsrn
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #75 - on: 26.05.2011 at 11:00 [UT+1] »Oh I see terminology has changed and really considering there are neurobiological basis for psychopathy andwhen NIMH Kluge and other well respected institutions stop using it then I will consider.
Also I note that as England loosen attitudes toward criminals they took away your right to defend yourselves
and law abiding citizens are monitored through cameras on every corner instead of dealing swift justice to thecriminal. May that not happen here. I see a lot of Pol. Correctness instead of definition. We recognize
psychopathy here.
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Ariel1
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #76 - on: 26.05.2011 at 13:53 [UT+1] »Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 25.05.2011 at 21:08 [UT+1]:
This thread does not say psychopathy IS schizophrenia. We can talk about these separately here. Schizophrenics are mostly non-violent.
Psychological astrologers associate Neptune schizophrenia; the dream state or imagination has completely taken over so the schizophrenic
does not view reality; Neptune can represent madness, delusion, illusion, self-deception and escapism. The mythical world has taken theplace of reality.

Posts: 926
Gender:In the imagination and the unconscious there is no distinction between myth and reality which is why it is important to understandsymbolism and the images connected to the signs and planets of astrology. The imago's or images of myth are projected onto physicalequivalents; the projections have to be withdrawn from real, material things and people. This can be a problem for even normal people
but it is extreme in schizophrenia.
There is always a small grain of truth in every hypothesis, theory and belief. The key is that with some beliefs, the truth is more
psychological, symbolic and non material than real. If one can see the archetype in the belief then the unconscious projection can bewithdrawn, and the real discriminated from the imaginary. There is always some kind of exaggeration or extreme in it; it is over-valued orundervalued or feared.

Some-one once said that schizophrenics have no free will. Individuality and free will is connected to the Sun.
If some-one is disconnected from their Sun, maybe because of childhood abuse, they couldn't connect to theirSun, the lack of exercising their free will could cause some-one to go deep inside themselves and refuse tocome out.
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Ariel1

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #77 - on: 26.05.2011 at 13:56 [UT+1] »Quote from ramez nas on 26.05.2011 at 06:02 [UT+1]:
Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 26.05.2011 at 03:02 [UT+1]:
I agree that the lines between schizophrenia and psychopathy are not distinct at some point..

Posts: 926
Gender:Please, people, there is no such thing as psychopathy any more. It's an old term for Antisocial Personality Disorder and it has as much to
do with scizophrenia as a monkey with a camel race. And yes, Geoffrey, the lines are very much distinct.

A person who has an inability to feel empathy for another human being is a psychopath. I would say that that
person was disconnected from their Moon, the planet of empathy, nurturing and feeling.
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Fazzonea
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #78 - on: 26.05.2011 at 14:59 [UT+1] »Any planetary placement or midpoint between
26 degrees, 22', 30'' a and 02 deg. 00'00'' of b.

Do you have any planets or midpoints at these degrees? Or know anyone who suffers from any mental disorder
who does?
It would be very helpful for me to be able to check it out,
Many people mention J too in clinical conditions. That makes sense, along with the debilitated luminaries o /n
OGINM trail......There again, a seriously afflicted D seems to be a useful thing for psychopaths to have.
Thanks,Fazz
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #79 - on: 26.05.2011 at 15:29 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 25.05.2011 at 21:52 [UT+1]:
The title of the thread is schizophrenia and psychopathy with an emphasis on the psychopathy.
It is not splitting hairs. Schizophrenia is a disassociation from reality versus a complete inability to empathize and feel emotion. Ted
Bundy, Jefferey Dalhmer, JW Gacey, and even Jack the Ripper were very aware of themselves their surroundings and what they were
doing. Psychopaths do not as a rule hallucinate. Splitting hairs can make the difference between an good accurate diagnosis and misdiagnosis. I noticed Mars in the first in Bundy and Dan White's chart. In Bundy there is a Moon Pluto aspect. I associate Pluto withpsychopathy more than Neptune.

I understand. I didn't mean that the difference between schizophrenia and psychopaths was splitting hairs, but
I think the difference between Antisocial Personality Disorder and psychopaths is splitting hairs, or for thatmatter, the difference between bipolar and manic-depressive is splitting hairs as far as astrology is concerned.
It is astrologers NOT splitting hairs between astrology and psychology where hairs should be split thatconcerns me. It does not serve astrology much that this hair-splitting taxes the resources.
We astrologers are not going to impact the world of psychology, and the changing popularity of terms andmethods in psychology is not really impacting astrology very much more than it is impacting business
management.
Consider that mainstream psychology is virtually ignoring Dr. Brian Weiss (except to censure him in ridiculous
fashion). He's a prominent and accomplished psychiatrist and scholar. Psychology should be ashamed. Onceagain I am not impressed with the society of psychologists. How many times have I seen this nonesense?

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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #80 - on: 26.05.2011 at 16:37 [UT+1] »I agree Stephen. Truly I am here and studying so maybe I can genuinely help. Let us just say schizophrenia issomething that has touched my life in a myriad of ways. It is a subject that is dear to me
I got scolded by my professor for claiming drug addicts can help themselves. I brought it down to what do you
love more? Drugs or Life and man I got a page full.
I think career psychologists get trapped into their own methods and end up not practicing critical thinking,open mindedness, using the various biopsych theories and psych theories. I believe just like our charts thattherapy and help is a holistic thing that can embrace many methods. The main thing is to keep compassion andPosts: 5489

open mindedness to new ideas concepts and theories. I hate to say this but ramez is a perfect example of whata psychologist should not exude. Her statement Wrong said it all. And even my profs say the DSM is simply aguide and not to place all on it. It takes clinical analysis and other things to get a picture. She is also wrong
about psychopathy not being a disorder. Since when?
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=2009-03401-010

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Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #81 - on: 26.05.2011 at 21:45 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 26.05.2011 at 16:37 [UT+1]:
I agree Stephen. Truly I am here and studying so maybe I can genuinely help. Let us just say schizophrenia is something that has touched
my life in a myriad of ways. It is a subject that is dear to me
I got scolded by my professor for claiming drug addicts can help themselves. I brought it down to what do you love more? Drugs or Lifeand man I got a page full.
I think career psychologists get trapped into their own methods and end up not practicing critical thinking, open mindedness, using thevarious biopsych theories and psych theories. I believe just like our charts that therapy and help is a holistic thing that can embrace manymethods.The main thing is to keep compassion and open mindedness to new ideas concepts and theories. I hate to say this but ramez is aperfect example of what a psychologist should not exude.Her statement Wrong said it all. And even my profs say the DSM is simply aguide and not to place all on it. It takes clinical analysis and other things to get a picture. She is also wrong about

psychopathy not being a disorder. Since when?
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=2009-03401-010

Eyesis,Come on, so talking about someone in third person in a negative way and judging someone on the basis of two
posts on the internet are especially open minded and mature acts arent't they?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Psychopathy ( /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a term which, until the 1980s, formally referred to a personality disordercharacterized by an abnormal lack of empathy masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal. The
publication of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders third edition (DSM-III) changed thename of this mental disorder to antisocial personality disorder, and also broadened the diagnostic criteria
considerably by shifting from clinical inferences to behavioral diagnostic criteria.
So who's not open to new ideas? DSM criteria follows reality and tries to be as exact and useful as possible
considering both patients' and practitioners' interests but let me surprise you it's not my Bible and only solace
at lonely nights (in fact I'm studying Tibetan medicine at the moment and my country is rich in shamanistic
traditions too) and no professional who has common sense think about it that way.
Practice cannot be built on hazy observations and beliefs. Or would you like a psychiatrist to say when treating
your scizophrenic relative "Oh, f*** science, I read on an astrology thread that psychopathy and scizophrenia
are basically the same. Let's put the guy in prison. That will end his stupid hallucinations."
Look, did I give you the impression of being against astrological definitions of mental illnesses? No way, though
I think it's way too complicated. Only thing I wanted is to make it clear what we are dealing here with.
Psychosis is something very serious and causes big suffering both to patient and family. You said scizophrenia
touched your life many times so I suppose you are aware of that. The aim of whatever method we use is to end
or relieve those sufferings. And DSM is a useful tool in that.
Watch out, narrow minded psychologists often appear on astrology forums. It's the prerequisite of belonging toour club.
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zippyMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #82 - on: 27.05.2011 at 16:38 [UT+1] »Quote from Stephen Baxter on 26.05.2011 at 15:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from Eyesis on 25.05.2011 at 21:52 [UT+1]:
The title of the thread is schizophrenia and psychopathy with an emphasis on the psychopathy.
It is not splitting hairs. Schizophrenia is a disassociation from reality versus a complete inability to empathize and feelemotion. Ted Bundy, Jefferey Dalhmer, JW Gacey, and even Jack the Ripper were very aware of themselves theirPosts: 8143

surroundings and what they were doing. Psychopaths do not as a rule hallucinate. Splitting hairs can make the difference
between an good accurate diagnosis and mis-diagnosis. I noticed Mars in the first in Bundy and Dan White's chart. In
Bundy there is a Moon Pluto aspect. I associate Pluto with psychopathy more than Neptune.

I understand. I didn't mean that the difference between schizophrenia and psychopaths was splitting hairs, but I think the difference
between Antisocial Personality Disorder and psychopaths is splitting hairs, or for that matter, the difference between bipolar and manicdepressive is splitting hairs as far as astrology is concerned. It is astrologers NOT splitting hairs between astrology and psychology where
hairs should be split that concerns me. It does not serve astrology much that this hair-splitting taxes the resources.
We astrologers are not going to impact the world of psychology, and the changing popularity of terms and methods in psychology is notreally impacting astrology very much more than it is impacting business management.

I agree with this, but I would like to add that Antisocial Personality Disorder (psychopathy/sociopathy) is apersonality disorder and Schizophrenia is a psychotic disorder. I would like to add that Antisocial
Personality Disorder occurs in about 3.6 % of the general population, mostly men, and yes that works out toabout 1 in 30 or so people which lack a capacity for empathy.
There is "Paranoid" "Schizoid" and "Schizotypal" Personality Disorders is Cluster A Type. Antisocial is a Cluster B
Type. Schizophrenia is a bit different.
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Geoffrey Hillend

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #83 - on: 27.05.2011 at 22:46 [UT+1] »I consider conventional psychology terms not absolute; They are at best intellectual judgements. They don't
explain or prove the cause of the disorder which needs a spiritual, transpersonal view. They don't know of theunconscious psyche as a thing in itself as being autonomous as Jung theorized. Astrology points to the later.
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Geoffrey Hillend
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #84 - on: 27.05.2011 at 22:54 [UT+1] »Quote by Ariel1:
Quote:
Some-one once said that schizophrenics have no free will. Individuality and free will is connected to the Sun. If some-one is disconnected

Posts: 2200

from their Sun, maybe because of childhood abuse, they couldn't connect to their Sun, the lack of exercising their free will could cause
some-one to go deep inside themselves and refuse to come out.
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I agree if the inside is the imagination. Trauma theory does not always explain it; Sometimes it's not wanting
to be born or enter into a world with suffering or consciousness or it is an escape from reality. Many
schizophrenics have been adapted to reality with normal lives and achievements, and is was not until afterwards
that their mental deterioration happened. It is the unconscious reality they have not been adapted to and thatis what a conventional psychological view does not understand.
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earthlight

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #85 - on: 27.05.2011 at 23:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Tham58 on 19.05.2011 at 22:16 [UT+1]:
http://astrodynamics.net/blog/2011/02/04/astrology-and-schizophrenia/

Posts: 49" Uranus, to me, is the prime culprit inschizophrenic people. "http://www.zodiacal.com/articles/rozhon/psych.htm

Great links. I struggle with integrating my introverted sun and moon in cancer with my heavily afflicted mars
in aries... though I'm not diagnosed schizophrenic I have related problems...
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Geoffrey Hillend
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #86 - on: 27.05.2011 at 23:23 [UT+1] »Quote by Ramez Nas:
Quote:Disagree. Psychotic depression and mania do bear acoustic or other type of hallucinations but these hallucinations are congruent with thePosts: 2200

patient's emotional state (e.g.: a depressed person can see the devil saying they should commit suicide as they are worthless). Coincide?
What do you mean? There are distinct diagnostic criteria for the three and their ethiology is different too.

Depression and mania are always congruent with the person's emotional state. Absolute values deal with Tao,the law of opposites; The symbol of the self; a positive self image does not exist without a negative one. A
psychology without a such a view does not know how to deal with a negative self image. The shadow has to be
accepted before it can be dealt with. If Depression is viewed as necessary for higher consciousness then one
can see the opposites of mania and depression really do not exist without one another. Too much positivity andidealism can be unbalanced; too much imagination results in a depression and a coming down from mania.
Jung saw depression as being compensatory to the conscious attitude. One has to learn about the journey ofthe soul and to not be completely identical to one specific emotional state. One continually passes throughpsychological death, rebirth and change and regeneration throughout one's life; the self is immortal; it canalways die and be reborn. There is always some attitude, values or view which might need change in the
future, expansion or limitation. Depression detaches or separates the subject from something. If the subject
can imagine that it is something greater within oneself that changes, then one does not have to identical with a
specific emotion as Jung as written.
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Geoffrey Hillend

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #87 - on: 27.05.2011 at 23:42 [UT+1] »The idea that psychological suffering is normal is a transpersonal, spiritual view. It is not compatible with aconventional diagnostic system of personality disorders, depression etc. Mental disorders are not the only
disorders. If the whole system only views things from a rational or mental view, then the mental health system
is limited to a view of the mind and consciousness. It isn't a whole brained view and has an intuitive disorder.
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Geoffrey Hillend
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #88 - on: 27.05.2011 at 23:51 [UT+1] »It isn't conventional diagnostic system which is bad, but only a view completely limited to it.

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Keebler

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #89 - on: 28.05.2011 at 00:47 [UT+1] »What about the fixed star Unukalhai at 22h
Alpha Serpentis *Unukalhai
Success followed by fall, suicide, insanity, accidents, success in war, politics, writing, problems inlove, forgery, shipwreck, loss, earthquake
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truegem620
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #90 - on: 28.05.2011 at 04:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Mitch Exceen on 19.05.2011 at 20:43 [UT+1]:
i know a guy who thinks the boogeyman is out to get him.

what aspects are we looking for here? i would think

BoG

Are we talking paranoia or actual schizophrenia?
Do you smoke pot?
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Gender:How about B in aspect to I- a displacement from reality leading to paranoid delusions.

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Apostrophe

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #91 - on: 28.05.2011 at 06:15 [UT+1] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 28.05.2011 at 04:24 [UT+1]:
Are we talking paranoia or actual schizophrenia?
Do you smoke pot?
How about

Posts: 2454

B in aspect to I- a displacement from reality leading to paranoid delusions.

I'm wondering if anyone else my age (50s) is coming to the same conclusions as me about the current strainsof marijuana being smoked by our children and family members. This ain't your parents' pot! It is psychosiscausing, high THC marijuana buds, on sale at your local Medical Marijuana outlet, often prescribed by retired
doctors or psychiatrists who are just in it for the money.
My nephew was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder last year after about 3 years of chronic marijuana use. Before
that he was a straight A student at high school and hoping for a degree at college. He had a manic episode withdelusions and was involuntarily incarcerated under the U.S. 5150 law or "72 hour hold", after which he was put
on a course of anti-psychotic medication, which is he is only now beginning to taper off from.
I also see and hear this story often as a substitute teacher. Students are beginning to smoke pot earlier andearlier, and Bipolar or shizo-affective symptoms are skyrocketing. I have been going to meetings of my local
chapter of NAMI - Nationa Alliance on Mental Illness with my nephew's mom and was shocked to find a room
full of about 15-20 mothers, some fathers too, all with the same story. Practically every story involved the useof marijuana! The sad thing is many of these young people get put on anti-psychotics, become dependent onthem end up having to take them for life. Many have side effects, for example Zyprexa causes diabetes,
Rispederol causes breast growth in men and Depacote causes liver damage. We are lucky to have found anutritional doctor (ND) who is treating my nephew with supplements, fish oil and vitamins, but the mostdifficult challenge is to persuade him to stay away from marijuana. As those of us who smoked it in ouryouth know, it is quite habit forming and many of the current younger generation use it for self-medication, fordepression and all the many stresses that they go through as teenagers, not knowing how harmful it is to thegrowing brain.
Unfortunately, a lot of what these teenagers see on their social networking sites, and on YouTube does notstress the dangers of pot. It is compared to alcohol and other drugs, in which it is perceived as harmless incomparison. It is also reviewed and condoned by people who do not have a pre-disposition to mental illness.
I've noticed that heavy or obese people are not so affected by it. From my observation, marijuana also
becomes dangerous in combination with poor nutrition and lack of sleep - in other words the typical conditions
found at most colleges when young people move away from home and do not their parents to keep an eye on
them.
Astrologically, I think that any aspect which points to a sensitive nervous system would fit. I also think thatholistic cures, even for schizophrenia might be possible if it is caught early enough. The mechanism involves rebuilding the myelin sheaths which shield neurons in the brain from being over-bombarded by serotonin anddopamine. This can be achieved, sometimes, through a good diet emphasizing the B vitamins, no caffeine,
alcohol or drugs. The biggest challenge is to convince the person that they are ill and need to get better.
Sometimes the pharmaceutical medications help just to get the person into a state where they can gain someperspective on their condition - sometimes with the help of a therapist.
There are also highly educated people suffering from schizophrenia who keep medicated and learn how tocontrol or "rewire" their brains whenever the voices appear by simply being aware of the biological cause andtelling them to go away. There is a female professor at UCLA, Elyn Saks, who has schizophrenia and who has
written a book:
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/03/09/professor-from-ucla-speaks-open ly-abouther-experience-with-schizophrenia/

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #92 - on: 28.05.2011 at 09:46 [UT+1] »although i agree with the content of your posting realworld, i would like to point out that children nowadays
are under pressures that they are not equipped for. 50 years ago, climate change, species extinction, constantwarring and terror, were fantastical scenarios restricted to comic books. the stress imposed by society and the"no future" is something that the human population has not experienced before, and i suggest that this is amajor cause of rampant drug abuse, violence and the social degradation that we are seeing at the community
level and as a whole. a clear indication of community breakdown is the appearance of litter, and with this, there
are not many places on earth that are litter free. the world as a whole is being systematically raped and thePosts: 3624

spirit feels this strongly.
if anybody is suffering from mental or psychic illness, i suggest a non invasive form of therapy like qi gong or
yoga. acupuncture is also used in the treatment of schizophrenia but is not fully accepted by mainstream
medicine.
"we are known by our works" is a phrase used in the bible and if we view the state of the earth, what are wereally known for?

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truegem620

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #93 - on: 28.05.2011 at 22:16 [UT+1] »I did not mention pot so we could go on a schizoid rant about how harmful it is.
Realworld you have some points, but i might suggest a bit extreme...more likely to chase the original posteraway rather than inducing them to be open to discussion, if it is in fact a case of marijuana enhanced paranoia.
A fact that should not be ignored here, is that a 'troubled' mind is going to be a lot more likely to seek 'escape'via the outlet drugs can provide. Therefore, most often, the troubled mind is a prelude to drug abuse rather
than vice versa.
Another fact- the 'strongest' pot I have ever smoked did not come from the co-ops or the clubs but rather from
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Gender:the street.
With that said, there can be some affects with prolonged use of marijuana. Paranoia can certainly grip a mind
that otherwise seeks to escape the mundane reality and explore the world through a less organized lens. The
paranoia, however, is not always the result of pure delusion but rather the displaced/ disorganized perception.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #94 - on: 29.05.2011 at 12:43 [UT+1] »Quote from Geoffrey Hillend on 27.05.2011 at 23:51 [UT+1]:
It isn't conventional diagnostic system which is bad, but only a view completely limited to it.

Dear Geoffrey,
I completely agree with you. Let me assure you that clin psych training which takes 4 years in my country
following a 5 year Bsc-Msc course is not limited to studying DSM criteria solely. We have psychoanalysis,
analytical psychology, transpersonal, ego, self, object-relation, whatever you can name in the field of
personality. Besides I've always been intersted in eastern traditions, and esoteria, plus I've been here on thisforum for 4 years after I took up astrology when I was 11. So I just can't see why some of you are constantly
calling me narrow minded and limited..I don't feel I could possibly have a broader mind at the moment.
The fact why I chimed in this polilogue is that it was you guys who completely forgot conventional diagnostic
system and its merits and thus seemed narrow minded to me. Yes, it has such. Or is it simply coincidence thatwestern psychiatry have been using DSM for decades? OK, let's not praise it on the basis of its usage. I mean
it's the all the flies eat cow-shit so it can't be that bad reason. You obviously don't want to believe my goodexperiences with it. It is useful as it helps define the illness. Consequently it helps cure it.
Jung himself said that he couldn't do much with psychotic people. His theory works well (or not as he himself
also said that there are people who have a Jungian psyche, others have a more Freudian one etc.) when the
person's cognitive system works in a healthy way. That is not the case in psychosis. It is not unlikely thattalking therapy can get rid someone of their madness but it's a very long process, sometimes life-long (JohnNash learnt alone how to talk himself out of his hallucinations but that took decades).
Yes, suffering is pretty much part of everyday life, but I beg your pardon, have you ever been around psychotic
people or their family? Have you tried telling them their suffering is OK according to transpersonal psychology?
Not much help, I guess.
I'm not talking on behalf of contemporary psychiatric practice as it has its bad sides. But please let's not forgetthat it does have its good sides as well. And people who gladly call themselves broad minded like to forget
about that. DSM is not the evil book. And while psychotic people are usually given medicine they are also
treated by "broader minded" methods too so they are not excluded from less rational therapies.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #95 - on: 29.05.2011 at 12:53 [UT+1] »Perfect timing Ramez~ I apologize for it was a matter of timing when I read your post. Psychology is fluid
somewhat in the same manner as astrology. When I read your post I had just had a round with one of myprofessors concerning drug abuse and I found the general clinical attitude toward DA to be contradictory toeverything I had learned up until then.
The DSM is simply a guidebook and even my professors and text state that. The human mind and its
machinations are not compartmentalized and a schizophrenic can have bouts of depression along side the main
disorder much like someone with a physical malady can have other physical maladies along with it.
I see a potential for Mars Neptune aspects for positive schizophrenia. Sylvia Plath is a famous schizophrenic.
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Maybe a look at her chart would help to add clarity.

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MarleEx Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #96 - on: 29.05.2011 at 17:08 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 29.05.2011 at 12:53 [UT+1]:
Sylvia Plath is a famous schizophrenic. Maybe a look at her chart would help to add clarity.

It seems to me that you are not serious to give your opinion about this, Eyesis, because you are not willing to
do something as simple as checking Sylvia Plath. I had to go there myself (and I am not studying, have notstudied and will not study Psychology), just to see that she had Depression.

Astro Databank:
Quote:

Diagnoses : Psychological : Psychotic Episode (Depressed, suicidal).

Wikipedia also talks of depression, even of her son:
Quote:On March 16, 2009, Nicholas Hughes, the son of Plath and Hughes, hanged himself at his home in
Alaska, following a history of depression.

I think you are very confused regarding this topic. Writing SCHIZOPHRENIA in google will get you to thespecialized pages.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #97 - on: 29.05.2011 at 17:11 [UT+1] »Whatever Marle...

Read the whole thread...

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Marle
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #98 - on: 29.05.2011 at 17:16 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 29.05.2011 at 17:11 [UT+1]:
Whatever Marle...

Read the whole thread...

I have. So now it is your turn to read Sylvia Plath's biographies and the specialized information aboutschizophrenia.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #99 - on: 29.05.2011 at 17:26 [UT+1] »http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539515/
Her depression was more than just clinical depression. If you were so "polished" up with her you would knowthat she may well have had borderline personality disorder... ahem schizoid tendencies.
I read her works years ago and your point in all this beside arguing is...

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MarleEx Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #100 - on: 29.05.2011 at 17:41 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 29.05.2011 at 17:26 [UT+1]:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539515/
Her depression was more than just clinical depression. If you were so "polished" up with her you would know that she may well have hadborderline personality disorder... ahem schizoid tendencies.
I read her works years ago and your point in all this beside arguing is...

You could have said that we were going to analyse Plath's chart according to your theories, that even though
she was diagnosed with Depression, you know better.
I would not have gone to read her biographies since my interest in Sylvia Plath is zero.
But it is good to say again that we are just giving our opinion here, and to remember that we can find more
"official" or "specialized" information on the web, like here:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/schizophrenia/index.shtml

I have nothing else to say in this thread.
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #101 - on: 29.05.2011 at 17:55 [UT+1] »Eyesis, What was the general clinical attitude you mentioned?
Of course human sciences are far from the correctness of mathematics but consider their development: ascizophrenic in the middle ages (in Europe at least) was probably taken to be possessed by the devil. If caught
by the Inquisition the poor bloke was tortured and probably killed.
Even at the beginning of the 20th century psychoanalists used their methods on borderline patients whose
disorder was unknown at that time. Many didn't survive as psychoanalysis worsened their state.
By nowdays psychopathology hasn't reached perfection yet but can achieve pretty good results. Still its
doubtful whether we can ever hike that peek of mapping human mind/psyche entirely. In the meantime we haveto put up with what knowledge we have.
DSM is a manual and we can call it guidebook if you will still it is the basis of diagnosis and treatment and themeans of communication between psych professionals even internationally. It is based solely on symptoms andnot ethiology which is often subject of arguements but it still exist (so does another manual International
Classification of Deseases) and at the moment there is no better (ICD is only used in Europe I think).
I agree that the human mind is very complex but for practical reasons which is treatment of patients it has tobe "simplified". That's not something evil. That is what personality theories do. Freud's or Jung's theories of thehuman psyche are simplifications also (not to mention astrology). Still they are pretty good "models" anduseful when it comes to clinical work.
I'm not sure about Sylvia Plath. Her mental illness is sometimes described as Borderline Personality Disorder,
sometimes as Bipolar Disorder and other times as serious depression or Scizophrenia or something from the
Sch spectrum.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #102 - on: 29.05.2011 at 20:37 [UT+1] »I'm not in Europe.

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Fazzonea

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #103 - on: 29.05.2011 at 20:44 [UT+1] »Sylvia Plath was a very rare thing.
We diagnose people who have love as their primal raison d'être as insane, because we cannot bear the idea thatto have any other raison d'être is a waste of life. Ted Hughes was the true diagnosis, and I wouldn't wish him
on anyone.
Sylvia Plath was rare because she was a genius. Classifying her as insane (like Mrs. T.S. Eliot or Camille Claudel)
helps women otherwise accept their fate as being mediocre, which none of us are. We should champion Plathfor her complete investment in her emotional conviction, not diagnose her for it.
Excuse the intermission
F/%&

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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #104 - on: 29.05.2011 at 21:07 [UT+1] »Intermission very welcome. She certainly was a very rare individual. Ted Hughes is another and thanks forbringing him up. You bring up an excellent point. There is a fine line between genius and insanity. Women werevery much misdiagnosed an for the very reason you stated. Very good and insightful. I know. I have been
there.
The DSM is a guide, but careful clinical screening and being attentive to the client is first and foremost. I havebeen erroneously diagnosed before from one visit then I was prescribed a pharmaceutical cocktail that would
have killed me had I continued.

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Diagnosis on a psychological level depends on intuition on the psychologist's part. There is a stigma once thisdiagnosis is made and that is why I would not depend on the book alone. Axis V would be the final
determinant. How does the person function? How do they interact with people who are close to them and thenusing the DSM to see where this would fit. Regardless the most important thing is the well being of the patient
and to find a course of treatment that will help the person adjust. Here where I live it is very sad that thesepeople have been put out into the streets, most of them end up homeless and are not able to get treatment.

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #105 - on: 29.05.2011 at 21:55 [UT+1] »I don't want to function as a scapegoat for everything bad psychiatry did for people throughout the centuries
so Fazzonea, please notice that it wasn't me who brought up the topic of Sylvia Plath's mental illness. I'm a
Sylvia Plath fan on the other hand, love her Bell Jar and some poems and also her bravery and don't care really
what her real illness was..or at least that is not the filter through which I read her works.
Eyesis, I'm sorry for your bad experiences. I don't know which country you are in but where I live doctors andhealthcare professionals are seriously underpayed (a roadsweeper earns as much as a doctor here) andoverladen. Many psychiatric wards are closed and hospitals fight for survival. You can imagine that thousands of
doctors go abroad each year and those who stay..sometimes I wonder how can people work among thosecircumstances. But they do and do quite a good job.
Of course there are mistakes and untalented professionals just like in every profession.
But they are far from depending on one book alone. Their training contains almost the same moduls as clinicalpsychology so they are aware of what responsibility they hold. If they are unsure about the patient they cancome to me or colleagues. Our diagnostic motion (we don't give diagnosis) is based on an (or a set of)interviews with the patient, talking to relatives and doing diagnostic tests. Intuition is not enough it has to bebacked by facts though certainly one has some ideas before the whole process ends (an old colleauge once said
she could literally smell depression).
Concerning treatment Hungary has a rich psychoanalytic and antipsychiatric tradition (Sándor Ferenczi, Thomas
Szász are my countrymen, also Andrew Feldmar you may have heard about), community psychiatry is still
flourishing so there really are some alternative ways of treatment.
Unfortunately due to hospitals' closing a lot of people got out of the view of healthcare and they end up at thestreets just like in your country. Such a shame.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #106 - on: 29.05.2011 at 22:50 [UT+1] »Ramez, it does take a myriad of factors to make a determination. I love a happy medium Ramez Nas!!

We

ARE really on the same page!!! Thank you.
Bringing it back to Astro, since there is a hereditary factor in some cases would the 4th and 8th house be
indicative. I think Uranus would be very relevant because the schizoid mind in positive schiz. is so scattered andchaotic. I notice a tendency to put all things mental on Neptune. I would love to see Zappo's traditional astro
views on this. Jupiter/Mercury maybe for positive schizophrenia. Negative has the flat effect, or non
responsiveness and catanonia and this is astrologically curious for me at least.
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I have strayed from the psychopath because from everything I have read, there is no clear treatment. The
concept of an inability to feel for others or to feel any emotion still perplexes me.

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Stephen Baxter

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #107 - on: 31.05.2011 at 20:02 [UT+1] »There is dispute about the sanity of Syliva Plath, and latter day observers have tried to diagnose her as apersonality disorder. She was a literary genious who tragically committed suicide.
Note the similarity with Virginia Woolf another literary genious who committed suicide. Plath has Saturn in
Twelfth House semi-square (close orb) MC. There is a GOJ T-square and Ascendant = E/I.
Woolf has Saturn in Twelfth House square MC. South Node = E/I, but Ascendant is only 5 degrees awayfrom AS = E/I. Perhaps translation of light from the SN-AS conjunction or maybe the chart can be rectified
to the SN on AS.
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Stephen Baxter
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #108 - on: 31.05.2011 at 20:03 [UT+1] »Here is Virginia Woolf.

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Virgo Dei Genetrix

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #109 - on: 31.05.2011 at 21:01 [UT+1] »I read a book about two years ago that used declinations as "markers" for certain mental illnesses. The author
used both planetary positions/aspects and declinations to find common markers. I gave a brief description in athread I started in July 2009: http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1247248968

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Virgo Dei
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #110 - on: 31.05.2011 at 21:16 [UT+1] »Member

I'm attaching the chart of someone I know very well who has been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and Schizoeffective, which I believe is the same thing as schizotypal? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. He's been
hospitalized numerous times although, fortunately, he hasn't been hospitalized since 2006!
Realworld, I know several people who have the bipolar diagnosis and who continue to self-medicate withmarijuana. Honestly, I feel like the drug may be a good medicine for them in most cases. It's only a problem
when they run out!
I'm not really sure you can say that marijuana causes bipolar disorder. I really think
it's a chicken-or-egg scenario here. I read once that almost 75% of kids who get diagnosed with bipolar
disorder were first diagnosed with ADHD. The comorbidity rate of ADHD and Bipolar is quite high (no pun
intended!) I'm willing to bet that most kids who start using marijuana are really self-medicating. I'm willing to
bet that their "symptoms" were mild and almost unnoticeable prior to the use of marijuana. Bipolar disorder is

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also something that like schizophrenia doesn't typically start showing up/being diagnosed until a person
reaches late teens/early twenties.
Example_Schizophrenia.gif (attachment deleted)
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elisecats

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #111 - on: 01.06.2011 at 02:49 [UT+1] »Thought I'd chip in here. My father has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, and it's taken quite a toll on
him/his family. I believe he also has some sort of personality disorder, or at least some extreme pattern ofmismanaging anger (abused his family and my family when he was a part of it).
I note the stellium ink and 12H H for schizophrenic symptoms, and the angry J for most of the pain hecaused. Surely there are other things. He's still in the hospital and I don't think he'll ever be leaving. Can't say
I'm not relieved.
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy

Virgo Dei
Genetrix« Reply #112 - on: 01.06.2011 at 05:25 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from elisecats on 01.06.2011 at 02:49 [UT+1]:
Thought I'd chip in here. My father has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, and it's taken quite a toll on him/his family. I believe he also
has some sort of personality disorder, or at least some extreme pattern of mismanaging anger (abused his family and my family when he
was a part of it).

k and 12H H for schizophrenic symptoms, and the angry J for most of the pain he caused. Surely there are otherI note the stellium inthings. He's still in the hospital and I don't think he'll ever be leaving. Can't say I'm not relieved.

Holy sh*t!!! That's my dad's chart!!!! Well... almost! He was born in El Campo, Texas and he has Gemini Risingbut, GEEZ! that is close! He's definately NOT schizophrenic nor was he abusive/angry; however, I would say

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he's on the spectrum for Narcissim. He's VERY charming in the public eye but, at home, it was like living withsome sort of Phantom Ghost. He rarely interacted with us children. Never told us he loved us or came to anyof our birthday parties, school functions, sports games, horse shows, etc.
Attaching MY dad's chart.... just for comparison...
ETA: WOW! My dad is going to be effected BIG TIME by the eclipse on June 15th! It's going to occur rightacross his ASC-DESC. And, I had almost forgotten how close our angles are, except they are reversed!!! I have
Sag Rising with Gemini Desc and Virgo MC/Pisces IC. THe MC/IC axis is very close... mine are at 11 degrees;
however, the ASC/DESC is quite off.... mine are at 3 degrees. Hmmmmmmmm......
ETA2: OK, still freaking out! I just realized Elisecats that our father's were born at essentially the same timesince your's was on the East Coast and we are in Central Time. I guess the latitude makes the differerence inAscendant??? But, that's really crazy!!!!! and, PS. I'm really sorry your dad caused you so much pain. Mine did
too but in a different way. I'd say we suffered from neglect than abuse. There is definately something NOT
right about my dad. He seems unable to form emotional attachments to his children.

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elisecats

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #113 - on: 01.06.2011 at 06:20 [UT+1] »Holy wow, Juliet!!! That is so weird to see! Interesting to see how similar a chart can be and yet how different
a person can result based on their use of the energies/environment they experienced as a child/etc. Thank you
for sharing!
Can relate on a definite "detachment" from the normal fatherhood responsibilities. I'm so sorrythat he wasn't emotionally connected with you and your siblings -- that is incredibly hard, and very unfair. I
hope you are taking care of your self!
ETA: Can you tell me more about him, and what it was like for you? It's just so fascinating to see! Astro, thankyou for all the amazing connections! Definitely would not have ever met someone with this same relation
otherwise -- or at least would have never known about it!
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Apostrophe
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #114 - on: 01.06.2011 at 08:38 [UT+1] »Quote from Juliet on 31.05.2011 at 21:16 [UT+1]:
Realworld, I know several people who have the bipolar diagnosis and who continue to self-medicate with marijuana. Honestly, I feel likethe drug may be a good medicine for them in most cases. It's only a problem when they run out!

Exactly!
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Quote:
I'm not really sure you can say that marijuana causes bipolar disorder. I really think it's a chicken-or-egg scenario here. I read once that
almost 75% of kids who get diagnosed with bipolar disorder were first diagnosed with ADHD. The comorbidity rate of ADHD and Bipolar isquite high (no pun intended!) I'm willing to bet that most kids who start using marijuana are really self-medicating. I'm willing to bet that
their "symptoms" were mild and almost unnoticeable prior to the use of marijuana. Bipolar disorder is also something that likeschizophrenia doesn't typically start showing up/being diagnosed until a person reaches late teens/early twenties.

One theory is that it's the ADHD medications like Ritalin, started when children are in elementary school, thatmight predispose a teenager or 20 yr old to bipolar later on. I know the marijuana question is difficult toanswer; new research from Australia shows that cannabis increases the incidence of manic (bipolar) relapses inpeople who have had breaks before. I know that for every anti-marijuana article on the internet, one can find apro-marijuana one, but as this doctor says, the pro-marijuana ones tend to be written from personal, anecdotal
experience, whereas the anti ones are from more scientifically designed studies:
http://www.sevencounties.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=34967&cn=4
I sometimes try to remember what I felt when I smoked the mild pot of the 1970s, grown in flower pots on aroof in England. One of the things that I do remember is that it was much easier for me to deal with negative
feelings under the influence. I would simply get stoned and put on an LP with headphones and everything
would be OK. I remember breaking up with my boyfriend of 7 years and the only way that I could deal with thefeelings of betrayal, jealousy, loneliness, depression and grief was to escape into the marijuana world. Those
negative feelings didn't go away, but somehow I could rise above them, as though I were literally looking downon my silly personality from a higher level, where everything is reconciled in peace and love. Stoned, it waseasy for me to understand what we spend hours trying to explain on this forum using astrology - a mixture ofkarma and compassion and the idea that everything is meant to happen when it does.
But then I'd wake up next morning back in my personality and crave that feeling again. When I started
studying spirituality, in the form of kabalah, I learned that we can get to that state of peace and love without
drugs, and that when we do, the effects are permanent, not transitory and dependent on a chemical in one's
bloodstream. This forum is one way of achieving that state of consciousness, and so is meditation - they areboth ways of understanding the various psychological influences that make up all of us, and learning how tocontrol them. In theory, even the most diagnosed Bipolar or schizoid person with the the most difficult aspects
in their natal charts could learn how to control these different aspects of human psychology with some help maybe a combination of psychotherapy and astrology with a dash of science about how astrology might work,
just to keep it all real.
Ramez Naz: I read Thomas Szasz at college and his Myth of Mental Illness honestly changed my whole outlook
towards psychology and psychiatry; we are all blips on a bell-curve of normality, with most of us in the central
regions.
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EnigmeMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #115 - on: 01.06.2011 at 12:25 [UT+1] »Steven I notice in both Sylvia and Virginia's charts the quincunx from Mercury to Uranus. And singly quincunxii
are typically harder to adapt that having a Yod because the Yod has the sextile to create a balance. But that has
its own roller coaster as well.
I would take Mercury as the thought Process constantly having to adjust with the chaotic motion of Uranus
causing thought patterns to be vulnerable. unusual and erratic. I too noted in each case Jupiter and Neptune
are in the the house of open enemies and the house of hidden enemies. Plath has her's in fall and detriment in
Virgo with Venus attached and wasn't it within her love relationships that her symptoms really became so
inflamed. Jupiter and Neptune connections are not as rosy as some astrologers believe. I have this in the fourth
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connected that creates the far leg of my Yod. Grandiose Illusion strange and unusual circumstances. In Plath's
case that was in her marriage, for me that was my childhood environment. I see transition of light as very
relevant here. And yes my own thoughts are scattered but I wanted to point these things out for consideration.
On marijuana, our brains have neuroreceptors called Endocannabinoids that Delta-9 Tetrahydracannabinoids
bind to in the brain. These are d-r and d-3 receptors that do effect not only the adipose/Liver/glucose processes
but also effect the brain's processes. NIMH did a study of schizophrenics and the use of marijuana and noted
their paranoia was aggravated by marijuana. I know many people who quit because it made them paranoid. I
am not sure if the study subjects were on medication at the time. Marijuana is like any substance and can haveadverse effects with other drugs particularly SSRIs and NSRIs. Marijuana is not processed nor altered. I think it
could be very useful in some disorders. There are very potent strains that are the culprits of producing paranoid
symptoms but typical commercial quality is not as strong and can be very relaxing.
What people tend to forget with Relaxation is that the mind will be relaxed enough for the mind to wander into
the sub and unconscious and bring up past emotions and memories. The trick would be to teach the person to
not fear the upsurge of forgotten or blanked out memory through psychodynamics and cognitive therapy. Thiscan definitely happen with or without the use of marijuana.

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Stephen Baxter
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #116 - on: 01.06.2011 at 14:51 [UT+1] »Quote from elisecats on 01.06.2011 at 06:20 [UT+1]:
Holy wow, Juliet!!! That is so weird to see! Interesting to see how similar a chart can be and yet how different a person can result basedon their use of the energies/environment they experienced as a child/etc. Thank you for sharing!

Can relate on a definite"detachment" from the normal fatherhood responsibilities. I'm so sorry that he wasn't emotionally connected with you and your siblings -that is incredibly hard, and very unfair. I hope you are taking care of your self!
ETA: Can you tell me more about him, and what it was like for you? It's just so fascinating to see! Astro, thank you for all the amazing
connections! Definitely would not have ever met someone with this same relation otherwise -- or at least would have never known aboutit!

Both Dads have Ascendant = I/MC
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Stephen Baxter

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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #117 - on: 01.06.2011 at 14:53 [UT+1] »Quote from Eyesis on 01.06.2011 at 12:25 [UT+1]:
Steven I notice in both Sylvia and Virginia's charts the quincunx from Mercury to Uranus. And singly quincunxii are typically harder toadapt that having a Yod because the Yod has the sextile to create a balance. But that has its own roller coaster as well.
I would take Mercury as the thought Process constantly having to adjust with the chaotic motion of Uranus causing thought patterns to bevulnerable. unusual and erratic. I too noted in each case Jupiter and Neptune are in the the house of open enemies and the house of
hidden enemies. Plath has her's in fall and detriment in Virgo with Venus attached and wasn't it within her love relationships that her
symptoms really became so inflamed. Jupiter and Neptune connections are not as rosy as some astrologers believe. I have this in the
fourth connected that creates the far leg of my Yod. Grandiose Illusion strange and unusual circumstances. In Plath's case that was in her
marriage, for me that was my childhood environment. I see transition of light as very relevant here. And yes my own thoughts arescattered but I wanted to point these things out for consideration.
On marijuana, our brains have neuroreceptors called Endocannabinoids that Delta-9 Tetrahydracannabinoids bind to in the brain. These are
d-r and d-3 receptors that do effect not only the adipose/Liver/glucose processes but also effect the brain's processes. NIMH did a study ofschizophrenics and the use of marijuana and noted their paranoia was aggravated by marijuana. I know many people who quit because it
made them paranoid. I am not sure if the study subjects were on medication at the time. Marijuana is like any substance and can haveadverse effects with other drugs particularly SSRIs and NSRIs. Marijuana is not processed nor altered. I think it could be very useful insome disorders. There are very potent strains that are the culprits of producing paranoid symptoms but typical commercial quality is not asstrong and can be very relaxing.
What people tend to forget with Relaxation is that the mind will be relaxed enough for the mind to wander into the sub and unconscious
and bring up past emotions and memories. The trick would be to teach the person to not fear the upsurge of forgotten or blanked out
memory through psychodynamics and cognitive therapy. This can definitely happen with or without the use of marijuana.

Yes, I forgot to mention the CO quincunxes, and as I said earlier, I think that hard CO aspects are
frequently contributors to the picture of a pathology.
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy

Virgo Dei
Genetrix« Reply #118 - on: 01.06.2011 at 17:11 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from elisecats on 01.06.2011 at 06:20 [UT+1]:
ETA: Can you tell me more about him, and what it was like for you? It's just so fascinating to see! Astro, thank you for all the amazing
connections! Definitely would not have ever met someone with this same relation otherwise -- or at least would have never known aboutit!

I know! I'm still stunned by the coincidence!
I will tell you what I know about my father. First of all, he is a twin. He's the older twin. I think there is quite atime gap (for twins) between the births. I think my uncle has Cancer Rising.

Posts: 4677

Everyone in the small town we grew up in thought my dad was just the most charming, sweet man. At leastthat is what they would tell me when they would see me in public. When we were growing up, my father ran
the "Family Farm"... we grew rice near Houston, Texas. In the early 1980s, the farming industry took a diveand my parents marriage was really shakey. My youngest brother was born in 1977. Tthere are four of us andI'm the oldest, born in 1970. When my mother was pregnant with my youngest brother, my father apparently
threatened to divorce her unless she got an abortion. My mother was raised Catholic and she raised us Catholic
as well. (She later left the church.) I remember this time period being really bad. My mom suffered frommajor depression and she was really depressed during this period and I went to live with my aunt and uncle andcousins for an entire summer. It was just a bluff on my dad's part though.. a way to try to manipulate her into
doing what he wanted. He has always tried hard to live up to his parent's expectations (they have lots ofmoney) and divorce was not something they would ever approve, even though it was fairly obvious they didn't
approve of my mother. Side note: I know that my mother got pregnant with me before they were married andhe likely only married her because she got pregnant.
My mom decided to leave my dad in 1983. She moved us from the small town to Austin and began working
for the first time in her adult life and she also went back and finished college. They were not seperated longthough. My dad again tried to blackmail her. He threatened to take us children away from her (hire an
expensive lawyer to prove she was an unfit parent) if she divorced him. So, she begrudgingly let him move inwith us. He had leased out the farm to one of his workers and moved to Austin. But, he didn't look for a job.
Instead, he played golf (his only real passion) everyday. Someone convinced him to get his PGA license, which
he did end up doing. He eventually moved to Arizona and then asked for a divorce from my mom in 1992.
My mom claims that he cares about absolutely no one but himself. He seems to have a much better
relationship with his second wife (who is only five years older than me); however, I can't say for certain how
much real emotional attachment/investment he has with her either. She does for him just like my mom did...
cooking all his meals, doing all his laundry, and taking care of his every last need and I see little reciprocation
on his part. In fact, she has at times supported them both with her job, whenever he was between jobs.
My dad would frequently go on trips for weeks at a time to play in amateur golf tournaments, go on hunting
trips, and trips to Las Vegas to gamble (he loves to play cards and gamble too.) Looking back, it was easy to
see that he was still living the life of a bachelor playboy. He provided monetary means to support us (roof over
our head and food on the table) but, even that, my mother says, he kept a tight rein on the money. He got mymom her own checking account and he would deposit just enough each month for groceries and bills, etc. My
mom says anytime that she needed money for doctors visits, school clothes, new shoes, Christmas gifts, oranything out of the normal monthly expenses, that she would have to struggle with my dad to give her themoney. I also remember that around the same time my youngest brother was born, my dad decided to build
us a bigger house. In the house, he had his own private den, which he immediately furnished exactly the way
he wanted with very expensive furnishings. On the other hand, my mom was supposed to be able to furnish
the rest of the house (dining room, living room, etc) the way she wanted. This house was pretty big… probably
about 4,000 square feet. I remember that the entire time we lived in that house 1977-1983, there wasn’t astick of furniture in the main living areas. We had brought our furniture from the old house and we had a small
table in the kitchen where where we ate our meals but, literally we lived in this HUGE house with NO furniture init. It was odd, to say the least.
Sorry to the OP, if this got off topic. But, I do think it’s interesting to be able to compare the charts and livesof two people with essentially the EXACT same chart, one who has been diagnosed with Schizophrenia andanother who hasn’t.

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mythicizedMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #119 - on: 19.06.2011 at 08:15 [UT+1] »Quote from Mitch Exceen on 19.05.2011 at 20:43 [UT+1]:
i know a guy who thinks the boogeyman is out to get him.

what aspects are we looking for here? i would think

BoG

I apologyse...I'm not english. What is boogeyman? Something scary?
I think it could be paranoia and at this hand associated with J in the chart. But the mental illness is often
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Gender:topics correlated with lI12th house.
The BoG could also bring psychosis, because some depressions can do so.

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Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #120 - on: 29.06.2011 at 12:36 [UT+1] »I have been diagnosed schizophrenic but sometimes they call me depressed instead. Here is my chart. I
opposite ascendant, O in 6th would be maybe signs of supposed things. Maybe CFGJ stellium in nonA/B polarity also in my opinion.

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DamsonEx Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #121 - on: 29.06.2011 at 12:54 [UT+1] »I have no idea actually. but this is going to be a very interesting thread.
Thank you for sharing your information with us.
I would be very interested in the responses you recieve as a training mental health nurse
kind regards
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Rainbow Seeker
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #122 - on: 29.06.2011 at 13:43 [UT+1] »PARAN ANALYSISStar Options: Absolute, Visible from Location
Orbs: 2.00 mins (00°30') parans 4.00 mins (01°00') angles
Day Start: Local Noon
Planets: Traditional¥ Sun, ¦ Moon, § Mercury, ¨ Venus, © Mars, ª Jupiter, « SaturnStars: Brady
STARS ON ANGLES AT MOMENTRigel - Rising at the Ascendant orb 03 mins 21 secs Wanting to bring structure to groups, which can lead to a righteous and overbearing attitude
Denebola - On Nadir orb 02 mins 06 secs A lifestyle of struggling against establishment thinking
HELIACAL RISING STAR
Spica - Rising 55 mins 44 secs before Sunrise Wanting to use one's talents for the greatest possible good
HELIACAL SETTING STAR
Alpheratz - Setting 43 mins 12 secs before Sunrise Always reaching for greater levels of self expression or freedom
PARANS - BY ANGLE
RISING - Stars of Your Youth
Fomalhaut as ¥ Sun is Setting orb 00 mins 14 secs The artist, the idealist, the charismatic one who is vulnerable to hubris
Alphecca as § Mercury is Rising orb 00 mins 19 secs A successful merchant or trader, a person with successful ideas
Rukbat as ¨ Venus is Culminating orb 00 mins 36 secs To be consistent, or rigid, in your social views and ideas
Acubens as ¥ Sun is On Nadir orb 01 mins 03 secs The Healer, a person who sees life as sacred
CULMINATING - Stars of Your Prime
Castor as § Mercury is Rising orb 00 mins 14 secs A skill with words and language
Vindemiatrix as « Saturn is Culminating orb 00 mins 26 secs Exploring, or collecting information in order to implement new systems
Mirach as § Mercury is On Nadir orb 01 mins 13 secs The translator, a person who builds rapport between ideas or languages - Curtailed passage
Ras Algethi as © Mars is Setting orb 01 mins 18 secs Wanting to live by a moral code; strong principles and sense of justiceDiadem as § Mercury is Culminating orb 01 mins 22 secs A person to whom ideas are more important than money
ON NADIR - Stars of Your Foundation
Sirius as « Saturn is Setting orb 00 mins 01 secs To be a founder of an institution; an idea that goes from strength to strength
Vindemiatrix as « Saturn is On Nadir orb 00 mins 39 secs Exploring, or collecting information in order to implement new systems
Diadem as § Mercury is On Nadir orb 00 mins 53 secs A person to whom ideas are more important than money
Rigel as © Mars is Setting orb 01 mins 11 secs Acting independently, a free agent
Mirach as § Mercury is Culminating orb 01 mins 43 secs The translator, a person who builds rapport between ideas or languages - Curtailed passage
Procyon as ¦ Moon is Setting orb 01 mins 49 secs Changes in one’s passions, shifts in likes and dislikes*****
Doesn't seem to be defective in anyway, just a person at odds with the "system".
Do you suppose that sometimes , its the company you keep.In cases of people who are institutionalized or
diagnosed with mental illness. Maybe sometimes its the people around you, who maybe be harmfull, or
causing your woes. With all those planets in Libra, a Gemini Ascendant, are there many people around you?
Brothers ?
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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #123 - on: 29.06.2011 at 14:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Christopher Pollard on 29.06.2011 at 12:36 [UT+1]:

I opposite ascendant, O in 6th
CFGJ stellium in non-A/B polarity also in my opinion.

I have been diagnosed schizophrenic but sometimes they call me depressed instead. Here is my chart.
would be maybe signs of supposed things. Maybe

The Neptune placement fits the diagnosis, in my opinion, but the GCF picture suggests sensible, soundthinking, so your sanity has much in its favor.

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Pistacia
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #124 - on: 29.06.2011 at 17:58 [UT+1] »I did notes on lots of the charts of people who have been diagnosed with Schizophrenia when I started tounderstand astrology more in depth. I've grown with someone with schizophrenia and know few others who
have been diagnosed as well. Astrodatabase has lots of other charts and I've seen charts here that helped myresearch alot, making it currently around 40 charts to look into. It's not huge material but the best I could doat the time, i'm still adding up charts there from astrodatabank and writing notes and looking them through.
The material will get bigger i'm sure.
Posts: 2187
Gender:What I found is that Aspects between EBO for some reason is very common on the charts of people
who have schizophrenia.
Another one that's almost as common is to have an aspect with IE or IB. EI and EJ seems to becommon along the charts of schizophrenics who commited murder, kill and such but this is not something i'mlooking much into.
Houses aren't something i've been looking into much either, but I've got a memo full of notes of all the charts
so i'll take a look of the most common house placements for the planets as well - it's not something i've listed
yet.
Here's so far:
Most common houses for E was house 3 (9/41 people) and close is house 2 (7/41 people).
House 8th, 10th and 12th is tied on third (5/40).
Least common houses for Mars were houses 7 (1/41 people) and 1 (1/41 people).
Most common houses for B was house 6 (10/41 people) and house 12 (10/41 people).
Least common houses for Moon were houses 7 (1/41 people), 1 (1/41 people), 5 (1/41 people) and 9 (1/41
people).
Most common house for O was house 11 (12/41 people). Second common was house 4 (8/41 people).
Least common houses for Uranus were houses 2 (0/41 people) and 6 (0/41 people)
I don't usually like much of statistics because they never tell the whole truth. It's just something I started fromand these could change as I get more charts. Ideally i'd have time and possibility talk to everyone and taketheir bio, lifestory and so on too but i'm not professional astrologer.

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Pistacia

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #125 - on: 29.06.2011 at 18:38 [UT+1] »I just noticed that few who posted their charts here has the BEO I found to be common as well.
elisecats dad: EmBmC pO. Pluto opposes the conjunction as well.
Christopher: EqB o O. There's sextiles going to Neptune from Pluto-Mercury as well.

Posts: 2187
Gender:Not saying that this is the only reason, but just something that seem to be very common among the charts ofpeople i've seen in my still ongoing, very childshoes research.

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Stephen Baxter
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Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #126 - on: 29.06.2011 at 18:49 [UT+1] »Well, I think BO as a pair is a contributor to the issue, though not central. Mars in the picture acts as anemphasizer inflamiing the situation.

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Rainbow Seeker

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #127 - on: 29.06.2011 at 19:20 [UT+1] »Well there this the loose EoO in the Natal chart like the poster says. Is 3/6 house. And it would be suspect.
But in a progressed chart, that square isn't there is more a EoI. So yeah I might agree with that otherastrologer, that it might bemore a Neptune thing affecting you now. In The last chart of a Schizophrenic I saw
here..I did figure prominantely.
In your Natal, you have that D/I conjunction in the 6th house in i, I have that conjunction DmI also in the
6th house in h...I developed type 2 diabetes. You might want to watch your diet. you got a stronliking foraromatic , spicy foods?
The point is that this conjunction like be somewhat implicated .In your natal chart your strongest midpoint is

D/G=A. I'm just fishing though , must be pretty idealistic in how you see the world...disappointing whenthings don't measure up in your opinion.
The DmI could be a strenght...an ability to see the more positive things in life even in hard,cold times. So
thats the nature of your depression...your ability to see and act with inspiration is being hampered rightnow...p Eo p I in i. Perhaps that won't last. But tough times probably will..for everyone.
Inherent depression (Mental illness) could be linked to the idea of your Ascendant. ( My Asc is Sabian 25
Germini by the way) yours is Sabian 26 Gemini " "Winter frost in the Woods"" ...The calm before the dawn. The
silence inherent in cold, barren times. Barren and cold feelings. Refrigeration and freezing. Serenity. Surviving
cold conditions. Feeling like ones on the outside. Being lost in the wilderness. Beautiful surrounds. Lack offertility.T hings freezing up. The need to bundle up. Hiberermntion. Icicles. Battling through hard times.
Depression. Growth that is halted or held up. The inevitability of change."... 360 degrees of wisdom...
an interesting guy to take to Las Vegas, you have O close to BML. And that lucky set-up The lastI saw that isin that Savant..The "Rainman" guy..the guy who had a gift for numbers.
Just fishing around ...
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Pistacia
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #128 - on: 29.06.2011 at 19:34 [UT+1] »DI is common with artists too - escapism through art and such though there's many other possibilities

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Stephen Baxter

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #129 - on: 29.06.2011 at 20:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Pistacia on 29.06.2011 at 17:58 [UT+1]:
I did notes on lots of the charts of people who have been diagnosed with Schizophrenia when I started to understand astrology more in
depth. I've grown with someone with schizophrenia and know few others who have been diagnosed as well. Astrodatabase has lots of othercharts and I've seen charts here that helped my research alot, making it currently around 40 charts to look into. It's not huge material but
the best I could do at the time, i'm still adding up charts there from astrodatabank and writing notes and looking them through. The
material will get bigger i'm sure.
What I found is that Aspects between

EBO for some reason is very common on the charts of people who have schizophrenia.

Another one that's almost as common is to have an aspect with

IE or IB. EI and EJ seems to be common along the charts ofschizophrenics who commited murder, kill and such but this is not something i'm looking much into.
Houses aren't something i've been looking into much either, but I've got a memo full of notes of all the charts so i'll take a look of themost common house placements for the planets as well - it's not something i've listed yet.
Here's so far:
Most common houses for

E was house 3 (9/41 people) and close is house 2 (7/41 people).

House 8th, 10th and 12th is tied on third (5/40).
Least common houses for Mars were houses 7 (1/41 people) and 1 (1/41 people).
Most common houses for

B was house 6 (10/41 people) and house 12 (10/41 people).

Least common houses for Moon were houses 7 (1/41 people), 1 (1/41 people), 5 (1/41 people) and 9 (1/41 people).
Most common house for

O was house 11 (12/41 people). Second common was house 4 (8/41 people).

Least common houses for Uranus were houses 2 (0/41 people) and 6 (0/41 people)
I don't usually like much of statistics because they never tell the whole truth. It's just something I started from and these could change as
I get more charts. Ideally i'd have time and possibility talk to everyone and take their bio, lifestory and so on too but i'm not professional
astrologer.

EI aspects are very difficult and possibly dangerous. Actually, Mars is not very difficult unless it is in aspect
to the outer planets or Moon (sometimes Saturn) I think.
I would expect to see AI more often than BI, but perhaps BI is a factore.

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BasantiMember

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #130 - on: 04.07.2011 at 01:14 [UT+1] »This man is a true Schitzophrenic and famous author. He is now a famous author but he was my first shamanicteacher back in the late 80's early 90's. We all wondered why he was a 'light bearer' at times and then then 6months later would turn into the darkest ghoul in the world, throwing temper tantrums and making a hideous
display blaming everyone. The man was and is truely paranoid. I asked after 4 years of dealing with his Jekyll
Posts: 2872
Gender:Hyde behavior to a person who was his best friend for years "Why is he so black and white and dramatic? He'sa brilliant mind, but fri----- out there" she said "When he takes his medicines for schitzophrenia he teaches thelight, then he looses his visions, then he stops taking the medicine and starts teaching the dark side and has
visions." I left soon after that. He can be Obey 1 Kanobe and Daarth Vader at the same time I tell ya. He is
diagnosed as schitso, so study this chart. Algol is on DC and square all that

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Pistacia

Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #131 - on: 04.07.2011 at 05:22 [UT+1] »Stephen apologizing for the late reply. Sun-Neptune was on few charts too occasionally. Moon-Neptune was ona few more with aspects square and trine standing out. I'm waiting to see how the results change as I get morecharts to look in at. So far i'm at at 43 charts, so +2!
Sun Kitty

Posts: 2187
Gender:Thanks for posting his chart, though i'm sad to hear that. It's not only difficult for the person but for those
who are close. I can feel for the both sides. I'll take a quick look and add his chart in my research to study it
more in depth later.
People who have szhicophrenia often seem to be very intelligent and artistic people. Brilliant - like you wrote.
I'm not surprised he is a writer. The stopping medicine is very common - because the people can get alot of
inspiriation from their episodes. It's really difficult to everyone.
A very quick look to his chart - the tighest aspect to his B seem to be a sextile to E which is applying.
The second closest aspect after the AC conjunction is a square to O which is also applying.
I find this interesting and also common with what i've noticed but i'll have to take a closer, more in depth lookat the chart and make some notes.
Wishing the best to you

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Faith
Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #132 - on: 04.07.2011 at 05:38 [UT+1] »Quote from Pistacia on 04.07.2011 at 05:22 [UT+1]:
Stephen apologizing for the late reply. Sun-Neptune was on few charts too occasionally. Moon-Neptune was on a few more with aspects
square and trine standing out. I'm waiting to see how the results change as I get more charts to look in at. So far i'm at at 43 charts, so+2!
Sun Kitty
Thanks for posting his chart, though i'm sad to hear that. It's not only difficult for the person but for those who are close. I can feel forthe both sides. I'll take a quick look and add his chart in my research to study it more in depth later.
People who have szhicophrenia often seem to be very intelligent and artistic people. Brilliant - like you wrote. I'm not surprised he is awriter. The stopping medicine is very common - because the people can get alot of inspiriation from their episodes. It's
really difficult to everyone.
A very quick look to his chart - the tighest aspect to his

B seem to be a sextile to E which is applying.
O which is also applying.

The second closest aspect after the AC conjunction is a square to

I find this interesting and also common with what i've noticed but i'll have to take a closer, more in depth look at the chart and makesome notes.
Wishing the best to you

Yeah, it's actually a symptom of the illness that they're pretty much incapable of realizing they are mentally ill
and need treatment. Something about the chemistry in the brain or the thought processes, not sure of thespecifics. Instead they tend to from delusions that they're different and 'special' in some way.
A mentally ill woman, diagnosed as schizophrenic, stalked me for years, and refused meds. She thought she
was an angel in human form, sent here by God to do things - including terrorizing me for years because she
believed it was what God wanted her to do.
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Vorsehen

Ex Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #133 - on: 04.07.2011 at 05:51 [UT+1] »i believe that categorization of individuals based upon mental states is not only harmful but inaccurate andcounterproductive. I could type out a whole argument, but Michel Foucault's Madness and Civilization
summarizes a good deal of my points. read if you're interested.

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Curiosa Nervosa
Member

Re: schizophrenia and psychopathy« Reply #134 - on: 06.07.2011 at 14:59 [UT+1] »Seems to be quite a high degree of h energies in these charts, like B h ASC h A 8th

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