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Too much information spoils the brew? (Read 480 times)

Isis KaliEx Member

Too much information spoils the brew?
« on: 31.08.2007 at 07:34 [UT+1] »I've felt like this before. I learn a lot of stuff, a lot of new things, and then I look at everything and say, "Youknow, there's enough here that I can pick and choose any sort of outcome that I want from what I see."For instance, with relationship astrology, there are composites, prog. composites, Davison charts, synastry...andyou can just pick what you like. If the syn chart looks happier, fine. You're suddenly a fan of synastry. Same forthe composite. Then you hear from people that some of the best charts have produced the worst relationships,
and vice-versa. So, it gets really frustrating (to me, at least) to reach something honest and unbiased.
It's really easy to find things in a chart that will prove just about any fear, or provide any sort of wish
fulfillment, that one would like. Throw in several charts, and it gets worse.
This is leading me to really doubt astrology. I was just experimenting with the new tertiary progression charts,and took several major incidents from my life to see what came up. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothingmarking the longest relationship I've had in my life, very little for my mother's death...nothing. Solar arcs?
Secondary progressions? Solar returns? I keep on thinking that I've found patterns that point things out, but
no. Nothing solid. Nothing conclusive.
I just had a breakup. The stuff in all of the charts that I've pulled up should have me in a good relationship, or
surrounded by prospects. Nothing.
I think sometimes that I would have been happier never finding astrology, and just leaving existence to chance.
Anything can happen at any time. Why sit and stare at glyphs and aspects when, well, anything can happen at
any time? There have been some benefits to my life (knowing about my Saturn Return is one of the few
instances of a noticeable advantage), but that's over now. So, suddenly there are more big, nasty transits?
Wait, but didn't I just finish one? I'm not saying that life is suddenly supposed to be all roses afterwards,
but...how to tell the difference? It's all running together now. Too much knowledge, too much input.
I just wanted to know if people ever become disillusioned. I'm just becoming a bit jaded at the fact thatastrology seems to just be sitting there, wide open, waiting for people to project whatever they like onto it.
Maybe it's just predictive technique burnout. I don't know. Has anyone ever gone through this, or are youquestioning just what the point of this is?
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arigemMember

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #1 - on: 31.08.2007 at 07:49 [UT+1] »Hi Isis,I can relate to a lot of what you say about being overwhelmed and burned out with astrology. I've felt that way
many times, and I find that just walking away for awhile is the best thing. Weeks, months, years--maybe
decades later, you may come back. You may not. I say just go with what you're drawn to at that time. I think
you'll find many of the most experienced astrologers here had periods of years and years when they didn't somuch as glance at a chart.
Posts: 123
Gender:This has not only happened to me with astrology, but also with tarot, channeling, personal growth seminars,
and many other kinds of psycho-spiritual tools that I've become enamoured with over the years.
The ones that have lasting value for me, I come back to. The ones that don't, I learn a bit from and move on.
Kind of like the people in your life.
And if you'll tolerate an astro-metaphor at this point, I'll mention that I've got Pluto in the 3rd opposing myAries Mercury. It does make me obsessive about information and knowledge, and I do tend to dive in andabsorb everything until I'm overwhelmed. At that point it's either step back or descend into madness.
Hike up a mountain, go to a worship service for a religion you don't know anything about, talk with an old
woman about her experiences. No matter what, you'll learn something valuable about the world and your placein it.
And maybe one day astrology will call you back.
Best wishes to you, beautiful woman!
arigemBack to top

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DavidGB

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Ex Member« Reply #2 - on: 31.08.2007 at 07:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Isis Kali on 31.08.2007 at 07:34 [UT+1]:
I've felt like this before. I learn a lot of stuff, a lot of new things, and then I look at everything and say, "You know, there's enough herethat I can pick and choose any sort of outcome that I want from what I see."For instance, with relationship astrology, there are composites, prog. composites, Davison charts, synastry...and you can just pick what
you like. If the syn chart looks happier, fine. You're suddenly a fan of synastry. Same for the composite. Then you hear from people thatsome of the best charts have produced the worst relationships, and vice-versa. So, it gets really frustrating (to me, at least) to reachsomething honest and unbiased.
It's really easy to find things in a chart that will prove just about any fear, or provide any sort of wish fulfillment, that one would like.
Throw in several charts, and it gets worse.
This is leading me to really doubt astrology. I was just experimenting with the new tertiary progression charts, and took several major
incidents from my life to see what came up. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing marking the longest relationship I've had in my life,
very little for my mother's death...nothing. Solar arcs? Secondary progressions? Solar returns? I keep on thinking that I've found patterns
that point things out, but no. Nothing solid. Nothing conclusive.
I just had a breakup. The stuff in all of the charts that I've pulled up should have me in a good relationship, or surrounded by prospects.
Nothing.
I think sometimes that I would have been happier never finding astrology, and just leaving existence to chance. Anything can happen at
any time. Why sit and stare at glyphs and aspects when, well, anything can happen at any time? There have been some benefits to mylife (knowing about my Saturn Return is one of the few instances of a noticeable advantage), but that's over now. So, suddenly there are
more big, nasty transits? Wait, but didn't I just finish one? I'm not saying that life is suddenly supposed to be all roses afterwards,
but...how to tell the difference? It's all running together now. Too much knowledge, too much input.
I just wanted to know if people ever become disillusioned. I'm just becoming a bit jaded at the fact that astrology seems to just be sitting
there, wide open, waiting for people to project whatever they like onto it. Maybe it's just predictive technique burnout. I don't know. Has
anyone ever gone through this, or are you questioning just what the point of this is?

Well ,Thats why I got into dreamwork...welcome to Planet Earth.
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manja

Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #3 - on: 31.08.2007 at 08:00 [UT+1] »I agree with you completely.
Astrology should base on truth and science, not on speculation and guessing. If we try to find more
information in a chart than is absolutely sure, then we practise not astrology but divination. At least, this is mypoint of view.

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Jupiter's
Daughter

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #4 - on: 31.08.2007 at 14:33 [UT+1] »MemberI find using astrology to predict events is perhaps the poorest use - in looking at transits and progressions, ilook more for the areas that are coming into focus and the lessons involved rather than what will happen - lest
you think I am being superior about this, let me say that this perspective is won by years of looking to Tarot, I
ching, astrology, fortune cookies and mud puddles and asking "Oh, when will my Prince come??????"

Posts: 1767

Astrology can be helpfu in understanding the meaning of the now - but we must give up looking for what wewant, in order to see what is there and to embrace it.
It also helps if you look at sources that rely on the prinicples of the planets instead of outcomes for example, when uranus rolled over my venus, everyone said I'd have lots of excitement and attractions in thelove area. But the meaning of Uranus is a total change of previous behavior - and I have been no stranger tosudden attractions and romantic adventures. Instead I gave up men and took up romance novels.
My Dad gave me my first deck of Tarot cards for Chrismas when I was thirteen - and the thing I wanted to findout more than anything in the world was if the boy who had the paper route next to mine loved me. I kept
thorwing the card and getting back negative or inconclusive answers. in my frustration, I started pulling the"bad" cards out of the deck when they showed up, but still I did nto get the answer I wanted. you would think
after a beginning like that it woudl take me less than twenty years to learn that it was my attitude that neededchanging, not the cards or anything else but alas, that is the bane of growng up with a lot of PLuto........

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IP LoggedIsis KaliEx Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #5 - on: 31.08.2007 at 16:27 [UT+1] »Thanks for the wonderful replies!
DavidGB, you may be onto something with dreamwork. I don't know much about it, but it sounds interesting.
Arigem, I've only hit burnout with astrology, really. I'm okay with my Tarot cards, and I'm also pretty okaywith personal development. I don't know why that is. Astrology definitely frustrates me more in those areas.
But, you're right. I was just thinking last night that maybe it served its purpose of guiding me through my SR
and getting to the root of some other serious things, but now it's time to back off for a bit.
Heh...I have a Merc in Aries in the 11th opp. Pluto Libra in the 5th, with a 1 deg orb. The Pluto is trine Sagg inthe 7th. You would think that that would help with divination. I guess not.
love/hate relationship with anything like Tarot or astrology.

It's turned into me having a

Quote from Jupiter's Daughter on 31.08.2007 at 14:33 [UT+1]:
I find using astrology to predict events is perhaps the poorest use - in looking at transits and progressions, i look more for the areas thatare coming into focus and the lessons involved rather than what will happen - lest you think I am being superior about this, let me saythat this perspective is won by years of looking to Tarot, I ching, astrology, fortune cookies and mud puddles and asking "Oh, when will
my Prince come??????"
Astrology can be helpfu in understanding the meaning of the now - but we must give up looking for what we want, in order to see what isthere and to embrace it.
It also helps if you look at sources that rely on the prinicples of the planets instead of outcomes for example, when uranus rolled over my venus, everyone said I'd have lots of excitement and attractions in the love area. But themeaning of Uranus is a total change of previous behavior - and I have been no stranger to sudden attractions and romantic adventures.
Instead I gave up men and took up romance novels.
My Dad gave me my first deck of Tarot cards for Chrismas when I was thirteen - and the thing I wanted to find out more than anything in
the world was if the boy who had the paper route next to mine loved me. I kept thorwing the card and getting back negative or
inconclusive answers. in my frustration, I started pulling the "bad" cards out of the deck when they showed up, but still I did nto get theanswer I wanted. you would think after a beginning like that it woudl take me less than twenty years to learn that it was my attitude thatneeded changing, not the cards or anything else but alas, that is the bane of growng up with a lot of PLuto........

I agree that you need to see what is there, but one of my stumbling blocks is that you can always find what you
want. Always.
Plus, I feel that if you find that something is coming up, your interest is naturally going to be pulled towards it.
It's inevitable. Then, you're in this situation of noticing something that, usually, you may have just let pass as anormal part of life (ie, someone brings a blue car to your attention, and now, you're `surrounded' by bluecars).
I can't even tell you the amount of times that someone read my cards - friends who are pros, mind you, andone reader that I had for more than a decade - telling me that super duper things would happen, only to seethat nothing of the sort came about. Therefore, I don't even listen when it says that something great will
happen, because the "something great" usually is just another lesson. Or, truly, the advice means nothing in theend, because what would have happened, occurred anyway. And I'm not just talking about bad stuff, I'm also
speaking of the good.
I guess I'm also a bit burned out on seeing much to-do over astrological happenings, when not much ends up
actually manifesting in real life. It all just seems part of my routine existence. When there's something! big!
every week that will change your life!!!! (an eclipse, the bad opposition of the week, etc), it gets to be a bittiresome and boring not seeing much of anything happen at all. I think you start living in constant crisis mode,or that people take the littlest things and make them into something huge, simply to say that the astrology
worked.
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Krista ShippMember

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #6 - on: 31.08.2007 at 16:32 [UT+1] »Well ,Thats why I got into dreamwork...welcome to Planet Earth>>>>>>>

Dreamwork????

Posts: 15841
Gender:

Kurious,
KristaBack to top
IP LoggedIsis KaliEx Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #7 - on: 31.08.2007 at 23:15 [UT+1] »Quote from Krista Shipp on 31.08.2007 at 16:32 [UT+1]:
Well ,Thats why I got into dreamwork...welcome to Planet Earth>>>>>>>

Dreamwork????

Kurious,
KristaMe, too...
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Jupiter's
DaughterMember

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #8 - on: 31.08.2007 at 23:44 [UT+1] »Isis - I think you are making my point for me - folks in the psychic field are often pulled to the realm of"fortune telling" because that's what all but the most mature people are screaming for. Tell me if THIS is goingto happen, when will I get promoted, married etc etc etc etc. ad infinitum and nobody is every really satisfied in
the end though it makes htem feel good for a minute. And any decent astrologer will tell you that predicting
specific outcomes is very dicey. But hey, that's what people will pay for, the security of knowing that life will be

Posts: 1767

better, and soon!
Instead, if you focus on astrology as telling you what YOU need to be doing, regardless of outcomes, then it
has the potential to provide spritiual security. If you can say, okay, pluto is crossing my mars, it's time for me
to deal wiht how I assert myself and handle anger, whatever is going on in my life- well the rest of life begins
to take care of itself.
as far as astrology telling you anything you are looking for, keep in mind that most pros say you need to see
themes repeated in order to be valid. and you cna't throw out the rest of the chart after you find that little bit
you like.
I find that one place people fall short with astrolgoy is that the focus on transiting aspects and forget the longterm themes represented by outer planets in houses - which can throw a wrench in a particular house no matter
what other cool transits are happening.
there's nothing wrong with living without astrolgoy - most people do it all their lives.

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Tim Wilson

Memberprediction, to Isis
« Reply #9 - on: 31.08.2007 at 23:47 [UT+1] »Isis,
You said:
Quote:
It's really easy to find things in a chart that will prove just about any fear, or provide any sort of wish fulfillment, that one would like.

Posts: 4706

I agree. I have found predictive astrology useless, because for every astrologer's "this must happen because ofthis aspect" prediction, there are many other possibilities, all based on the same aspect! The one that gets memost is relationship predictions, which seem to indicate that all a person has to do is sit around until theperfect moment and "Prince/Princess charming" will ring their doorbell and walk right in! I have lived longenough to know it doesn't work that way and the predictive astrologers often are playing right into people's
fantasies.
But I want to second Daughter's comments about looking at astrology as a way to prepare for upcoming eventsand figuring out how to use the upcoming energy in the best way. Using the chart to look at the past
relationships with our families seems to me less than useless, since it fixes us in the past and allows us to point
to our chart and say, "Of course I have problems with my dad/mother/cousin, it's written in my chart. And,
since it's written in my chart it's my lifetime problem." Instead, astrology can make us see that the past isover, and now that we are adults we have all sorts of ways to use our energies that will get us out of those
destructive "blame the dad/mother/cousin" habits that are so easy to get into when we are children.
And if you are having questions about the truth of astrology, all you need to do is to experience Saturn or Pluto
bottoming out in your chart, with the walls crashing in, and despair at every turn...to understand that there issomething there. My Saturn and Pluto experiences were quite difficult before I discovered astrology, but once I
learned astrology and knew what the energy was, I was able to redirect the energy to help me build anddevelop my life and hopefully to help others in the same way.
Developing life,
Tim

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DavidGB

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Ex Member« Reply #10 - on: 01.09.2007 at 09:15 [UT+1] »Quote from Isis Kali on 31.08.2007 at 23:15 [UT+1]:
Quote from Krista Shipp on 31.08.2007 at 16:32 [UT+1]:
Well ,Thats why I got into dreamwork...welcome to Planet Earth>>>>>>>

Dreamwork????

Kurious,
KristaMe, too...

Yeah, some people work with dreams, for fun and wisdom.
One popular method is...(PSsshhh don't tell!) to incubate a dream. Think about a question you are
pondering about, maybe write it down on paper under your pillow when you sleep. After you wake up , write
down any dream you might have , talk about it with a friend ... repeat..
I may do this tonight. Should I say or should I go?, How come I don't get laid more, are there dome questions
were not ready for the answer for?
Sometimes I have probelms with the Astrology approach, though I learn alot of interesting things about it
while talking/reading here. I like the dream apprach because there..I'm the expert.
Dreams are really a mystery to me. Understanding and learning about your world through dreams seems areal challenge, yet more tangible, more real than Astrology. There are people who have mastered this part ofthere lives. the Understand there dream language.
I think dreams are a good place to go to try to find answers you are looking for, for your life.
I myself loose confidence in my ability to find answers in life...And understanding dreams is more difficult thanastrology. I find it difficult to even remember my dreams anymore, hopefully I'll get them back.
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Isis KaliEx Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #11 - on: 01.09.2007 at 10:05 [UT+1] »I'm trying that tonight. Wow. I'm sorry that you've become disconnected to your dreams. Remembering themis hard, even when you wake up and try to recall them.
It's nice to know that I'm not crazy on the whole predictive thing, lol.
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Nadia
Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #12 - on: 01.09.2007 at 13:31 [UT+1] »Hi IsisAll you say is right. Do not beat yourself up about it. Astrology is everything you say - interpretation is an art
and a science and as such many of the results seem ambivalent and confusing. That's partly because one is

Posts: 126
Gender:trying to define the energy of change. To become a true master of astrology must be like becoming an
alchemist (and I haven't heard of anyone turning lead into gold in the papers yet!). We can only attempt thework and some of us are further along the path than others but we all aim to progress. Sometimes when I can't
see the wood for the trees, I just go back to basics, the element balance, aspects and houses for the luminaries
and ascendant. Other times, I have just dropped out and decided to feel the changes and force myself not tolook at what is happening astrologically and feel inside myself how I should progress. It is enlightening to lookback afterwards and check to see that the planets have been echoing this change after all and it reinforces thebelief and helps one to get into sync with what the planets feel like rather than operating on the theoreticalplane only. And I like the dream incubation idea.
Love and light Nadiax

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Jeanette

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Ex Member« Reply #13 - on: 01.09.2007 at 14:02 [UT+1] »Quote from Isis Kali on 31.08.2007 at 07:34 [UT+1]:
I've felt like this before. I learn a lot of stuff, a lot of new things, and then I look at everything and say, "You know, there's enough herethat I can pick and choose any sort of outcome that I want from what I see."For instance, with relationship astrology, there are composites, prog. composites, Davison charts, synastry...and you can just pick what
you like. If the syn chart looks happier, fine. You're suddenly a fan of synastry. Same for the composite. Then you hear from people thatsome of the best charts have produced the worst relationships, and vice-versa. So, it gets really frustrating (to me, at least) to reachsomething honest and unbiased.
It's really easy to find things in a chart that will prove just about any fear, or provide any sort of wish fulfillment, that one would like.
Throw in several charts, and it gets worse.
This is leading me to really doubt astrology. I was just experimenting with the new tertiary progression charts, and took several major
incidents from my life to see what came up. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing marking the longest relationship I've had in my life,
very little for my mother's death...nothing. Solar arcs? Secondary progressions? Solar returns? I keep on thinking that I've found patterns
that point things out, but no. Nothing solid. Nothing conclusive.
I just had a breakup. The stuff in all of the charts that I've pulled up should have me in a good relationship, or surrounded by prospects.
Nothing.
I think sometimes that I would have been happier never finding astrology, and just leaving existence to chance. Anything can happen at
any time. Why sit and stare at glyphs and aspects when, well, anything can happen at any time? There have been some benefits to mylife (knowing about my Saturn Return is one of the few instances of a noticeable advantage), but that's over now. So, suddenly there are
more big, nasty transits? Wait, but didn't I just finish one? I'm not saying that life is suddenly supposed to be all roses afterwards,
but...how to tell the difference? It's all running together now. Too much knowledge, too much input.
I just wanted to know if people ever become disillusioned. I'm just becoming a bit jaded at the fact that astrology seems to just be sitting
there, wide open, waiting for people to project whatever they like onto it. Maybe it's just predictive technique burnout. I don't know. Has
anyone ever gone through this, or are you questioning just what the point of this is?

The cosmos has a sense of humour - you'll see when you are ready to see and if astrology is the means to see
or not. I've tried many 'inner work' tools - all very valuable, but somehow they keep leading me back to
astrology - and then astrology leads back to this unity of all these methods for understanding the divine including religion.
You can't make astrology work for you - it will speak to you on its own terms. This has been my experience.
Best wishes and have fun. Your new avatar is much better.
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Penguin Trauma
Ex Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #14 - on: 01.09.2007 at 14:43 [UT+1] »Isis, I've been thinking about similar things in recent months.
Before I used to look at day4year progressions, and how sign/houses changes, can affect or gradually influence
someone's way of thinking/feeling as it were. Which weren't too bad, it just showed how a chart "grows" andhow, for instance the moon changing sign every two years can be a subtle influence really.
Then a few months ago, I just started learning about daily transits, and how they affect your natal chart. I also
started reading up on the forecasts on the free horoscopes page, as well as forecasting my own chart andgoogling the rest!!
What made it worse is, that some of the stuff on the Forecasts page predicted was so dire and foreboding, andfull of doom and gloom, that I started getting anxious about it, and it's getting to a point, which I don't want
it to, that I'm like "well, Saturn return is over this week, maybe things will lift up", when really I should bemaking things better myself and taking direct action, rather than sitting back and waiting for the bad aspects toblow over, and relying on the good upcoming aspects, etc, to do it all for me!! But when times are good, I
shouldn't be too busy fretting over upcoming scary transits to enjoy myself. Lots of self-fulfilling prophecies.

Also, when Saturn transit exact-conjuncted my natal Saturn - nothing!! It was nice and calm....and a bitboring.
Now my transit "studies" become a bizarre obssession! Pluto transitting ASC or just a big fat coincidence??? I
dunno...
Maybe it's usually where people are at in life. I find that when things are a bit sh1tty, I look to find answers,
usually in astrology, tarot, that sort of thing, to see if the future looks brighter, moreso to find reassurance thatthings will be better. When I'm happier, I don't need the answers, because I'm fine!!
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DavidGBEx Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #15 - on: 01.09.2007 at 16:44 [UT+1] »I 'm not sure if a Saturn return means much really at least the first one.
I take it to mean ,"You've been around the block" astrologically. Maybe it means a sort of crystallizations
occurs, in thinking. its the presumption that you know something ( Cause I've been around the block) that canbe dangerous actually.
Or some might say a Saturn return does mean something because it means we've finished a cycle, at the end ofthat cycle we start a higher one, like a higher turn in a spiral staircase..

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Elemiah

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Ex Member« Reply #16 - on: 02.09.2007 at 10:23 [UT+1] »Thanks very much for your post Isis Kali, and may I say I have often felt that way too, of course!! Little bylittle, I´m starting to learn that, at least for me, astrology is a tool for self knowledge, more than anything else
but I guess that in my case, I can only learn to attempt to simplify once I´ve complicated things so much I
don´t even know where it all started
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Elemiah

Ex Member

Redirecting, to Tim« Reply #17 - on: 02.09.2007 at 10:30 [UT+1] »Quote from Tim Wilson on 31.08.2007 at 23:47 [UT+1]:
And if you are having questions about the truth of astrology, all you need to do is to experience Saturn or Pluto bottoming out inyour chart, with the walls crashing in, and despair at every turn...to understand that there is something there. My Saturn and Pluto
experiences were quite difficult before I discovered astrology, but once I learned astrology and knew what the energy was, I wasable to redirect the energy to help me build and develop my life and hopefully to help others in the same way.
Tim

Tim,
Your post was extremely interesting. Can you develop the content of this paragraph if you feel like it? I´mcurious about the process... Not surprisingly, Pluto will be entering my 4th house, I haven´t checked whenexactly, but it would be very interesting to fully understand your statement.
Trying to learn,
Elemiah
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sharasa

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Ex Member« Reply #18 - on: 02.09.2007 at 15:28 [UT+1] »I've felt the same way as well Iris and a couple of things have occured to me. One is that a chart shows manypotentialities, each choice we make limits the ones that are available at any given time. But reality is extremely
fluid and everything can change in an instant ( ask anyone who's lost a loved one unexpectedly). My interest isin understanding myself far more than predictive astrology so other than noting the influence of the outerplanets in transit I don't go into a lot of the things you have but if the transits show one thing and it's not
happening for you then take it a step further and ask yourself why. I don't know if I'm explaining that well but I
mean that if you can see that if you look hard enough and at enough charts you can come up with reasons foreverything, then that's a step closer to realizing that you can change the outcome if you change your focus.
There are some amazing people who have a real talent for doing readings and who somehow instinctively tune
in to the chart rather than their own subconscious and are very accurate.
But the other thing I've noticed in astrology and tarot and other similar methods is that in many cases a"reading" often tells you more about the "reader" - their personality, beliefs and desires than they are often
aware of. For many of us that line is blurred and our own personality bleeds through or we are just pretty goodat picking up clues to what someone wants to hear. For me it's been useful to remember that when the chart orthe cards say one thing but reality is different or it's not what I want to hear. How much of it is more about the"reader" - and if I'm reading for myself it's always a clue to ask if there's a disconnect between my consciousand subconscious and I'm sending out mixed signals or putting unreasonable limits or conditions on what I
think I want to happen. You can get some really clear insights into yourself and what motivates you if you areable to do it the work.
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Cranberry

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Member« Reply #19 - on: 02.09.2007 at 18:23 [UT+1] »Hi Isis...
I believe this is the first thread I can relate too in its entirety.....not just your post....but to just about every
single post on the thread. Like yourself and arigem, I've gone through periods of having to walk away fromastrology, wanting to gain back a life without astrological input. I also entirely agree with Jupiter's
Daughter....predictive astrology can wind up useless when we lock ourself into a mode of trying to "outwit" thefuture. The energy is there, but its pretty impossibile to predict the incident/s that will make use of the energy.

I've also had the same experience of "events" happening that arent supported by the chart.
Posts: 2516
Gender:What in my life,was "horrendous" was somewhere among aspects that traditionally should have shown a much gentler period.
I've had the opposite experience, aspects that when you begin with Astrology make you shudder over, yet life
brought me better than the best of events.
I also agree with DavidGB.....about the first Saturn return. Mine was anything but stressful.

It was the

beginning of a "perfet" time in my life, that was very long lasting. I completely agree with and understandTims post......when Saturn and Pluto hit "sensitive" points in my chart......the world took a tumble, turned
upside down.....my life, attitudes and direction were totally re-oriented. From necessity, not choice. Our world
isnt populated by just ourself......others can bring the incident that re-directs life massively. Or we can be theinstigator. I know what Penquin Trauma means about Saturn conjunct the Sun bringing nothing but boredom,
yet elsewhere Saturn made my head snap back and got my full attention....withdrawing energy, restricting
movement and making me understand endurance.
Pluto....more than got my attention...Pluto is loss of something.....I call Pluto Humpty Dumpty now. When
Pluto removes something it can never be put back together again. Its gone forever. When Pluto by transit orother planets move in to square Pluto again....I now believe hes checking to see if your trying to re-build in thesame way as in the past.
I agree with sharasa too, the chart show potentialities....the energy of potential.....and agree that reality is built
on being fluid with the potential. Some can read charts with an amazing accuracy...just like her postsays.....they dont allow their own personalities to "bleed through" while others have less ego control and theirpersonalities or their own belief system does "bleed through" into the reading.
"opinion".....not good astrology based on atrological principal only.

Then you have an

I think it does what sharasa is saying that the "reading" or comments tell you about the person commenting.
We each run into posters, ideas, beliefs and attitudes that are in direct conflict to our own nature.....and others
who are immediately recognized as on our wave-length. Both are necessary to help us see "ourself". I havelearned about myself in many ways here......from why I dont like certain energy that some display over andover, with never a thought that the energy is repelling......to those who have the ability to truly embraceeveryone and others ideas.
Its taken astrology out of the "textbook" and into the labratory of living people. Suddenly you arent reading
about a Capricorn Mercury.... your "listening" to them. You arent reading about a Taurus resistance tochange....your seeing how hard change is for them. You arent reading about Scorpio intensity....your watching
Scorpio dive down to retrive the "bottom line" with their insistance theres more than beens said. Your not
reading about Cancers nuturing.....your seeing the "empathy" in their posts. You arent reading about Gemini's
ability to gather information on a multitude of subjects....your listening to how knowledgeable they are andseeing just how varied their interest are. You arent reading about a bright Leo Sun wanting to shine....yourreading their posts and they are the subject, or relate every post to their own experience of the subject. Samewith every sign and most planatary aspects........there it is on the screen for us to learn from.......both about
astrology and ourself.
I really like your post Isis....and I love all the answers to you!
Best in everything your doing! Sweetest dreams for you to learn from!!!!
Cran

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Re: prediction, to Isis

Jupiter's
Daughter« Reply #20 - on: 03.09.2007 at 17:53 [UT+1] »MemberQuote from Tim Wilson on 31.08.2007 at 23:47 [UT+1]:
Using the chart to look at the past relationships with our families seems to me less than useless, since it fixes us in the past and allows us
to point to our chart and say, "Of course I have problems with my dad/mother/cousin, it's written in my chart. And, since it's written in
my chart it's my lifetime problem." Instead, astrology can make us see that the past is over, and now that we are adults we have all sorts
of ways to use our energies that will get us out of those destructive "blame the dad/mother/cousin" habits that are so easy to get into
when we are children.

Posts: 1767

I almost always love what you say, but I disagree with you just a teensy bit here, Tim Of course the value of any information depends on how people use it - for me, looking at synastry in past
relationships has given me closure. Seeing those dynamics helped free me so I could let go. and seeing the
dynamics can just as often lead people to taking responsility for changing their actions as not It's like the bit aboiut alcoholism being a disease - you can say, "I am an alcoholic, this is a disease, so that's
why I drink"or you can say, "I'm an alcoholic, this is a disease, therefore, these are the actions I need to take to keep itfrom disruptng my life anymore"
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ElskedeMember

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #21 - on: 03.09.2007 at 18:39 [UT+1] »I agree with Jupiter's Daughter. Using astrology to gain insight so that you can effect healing or make changes
is a positive step. If you know your family connections and family history and patterns you cna then choose to
make the same mistakes or to find new ways of living and relating.

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Merlin9

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Member« Reply #22 - on: 03.09.2007 at 19:12 [UT+1] »Elskede - I just love your fairy. It's
Astrology can be mind boggling, I must admit. I was obsessed with astrology to the point of burnout and I
had to leave it for awhile.
Posts: 194
Gender:However, when someone asks me for assistance on a personal crisis, I pull out the old ephemermis and have alook. I can usually spot the problem from the basic of transits.
The person asking the question now has a "bird's eye" view of what is going on. They leave with more hope in
their heart. That's all I wanted to accomplish with this. I wanted to help someone (or me) reachunderstanding and look beyond the crisis.
I guess just take what you need from this science.

The knowledge is there for all to learn.

Right now, I'm curious about Horary so I will read until I can get better at it.
It's nice to be here sharing comments with all of you as I enjoy this forum so much!

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Derek

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Member« Reply #23 - on: 04.09.2007 at 18:34 [UT+1] »I think a very important thing to remember with astrology as we're practicing it on this site is that it's about
psychological trends.
Honestly, the worst part about astrology for me has been that feeling of dread when I read an interpretation of
my chart that I don't agree with -- when I look at the aspects and placements in my chart that don't seem topoint in any particular direction for spiritual growth but point me away from things that I feel I want.
Except "too much information spoils the brew" is actually something I disagree with. I've found that the more
Posts: 280
Gender:I read different interpretations, the more a particular aspect of my chart blossoms for me. Let's take mySaturn opposition Moon aspect. The first few readings I read about it were awful -- "You will be lonely foreverunless you work really hard to connect with others, even though that will be terrifying and you won't be getting
any help and you will experience much rejection" -- yipes! But then I learned more about it, and have come torealize that the fear involved in this aspect gives me an extremity of empathy with anyone who feels isolated
emotionally. And then I can help them. That's better, right? Didn't read that for months after finding out the$hitty interpretation.
Now I know to look at it as a challenge.
Oh, and my experience with trying to move astrological aspects to fit what I hope will happen in my life has
been pretty disappointing, but has been one of the most profound destroyers of unhealthy fantasies andillusions. At first astrology infuriated me, because it explained all of the rough times in my life, but seemed
pretty damn dour about me getting those things that I really wanted. Then I looked at astrology as possibly
suggesting other things that I might want, looking at my chart as my personal tote-bag of challenges, talents,and opportunities, knowing that things weren't just going to be given to me (Saturn conjunct the Sun), that I
had to work for some things others would take for granted, and that in return I was given a number ofwonderful skills and abilities to help me accomplish my goals.
Sorry for rambling. I'm in a bit of a mood today, because I'm supposed to clean out my house and then packup my possessions and move. There's no transit to read or magic pill to take. I just gotta mop me somefloors.
Sigh. Where's a Virgo with Aries Rising when you need one?
Cheers to all,
Derek

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Jupiter's
Daughter

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #24 - on: 09.09.2007 at 17:39 [UT+1] »Memberwonderfully wise post, Derek. As usual, you display maturity well beyond your years!

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Pamela861

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Ex Member« Reply #25 - on: 09.09.2007 at 18:11 [UT+1] »Quote from sharasa on 02.09.2007 at 15:28 [UT+1]:

There are some amazing people who have a real talent for doing readings and who somehow instinctively tune in to the chart rather thantheir own subconscious and are very accurate.
But the other thing I've noticed in astrology and tarot and other similar methods is that in many cases a "reading" often tells you more
about the "reader" - their personality, beliefs and desires than they are often aware of. For many of us that line is blurred and our own
personality bleeds through or we are just pretty good at picking up clues to what someone wants to hear. For me it's been useful toremember that when the chart or the cards say one thing but reality is different or it's not what I want to hear. How much of it is more
about the "reader" - and if I'm reading for myself it's always a clue to ask if there's a disconnect between my conscious and subconscious
and I'm sending out mixed signals or putting unreasonable limits or conditions on what I think I want to happen. You can get some reallyclear insights into yourself and what motivates you if you are able to do it the work.

Sharasa, I agree with this. You can tell a lot about the person doing the reading by the nature of their readings.
One erstwhile forum poster used to analyze charts of women's potential romantic partners, and invariably foundeach to be a horrible, violent man, if not a potential murderer. One horary reader will arrive at with mostly
negative outcomes, whereas another tends to predict sunnier events. There has to be more going on than pure,
objective technique.
The astrologer (or tarot reader, etc.) projects something of him/herself into the reading. How could they not?
My theory is that all writing is autobiography, all portraits are self-portraits, and all analysis is self-analysis -- tosome extent.
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SeaGoat72

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?

Ex Member« Reply #26 - on: 09.09.2007 at 18:30 [UT+1] »Hi Pamela, so true... The only way to get more accurate reading, then, is to find an astrologer with whom one
is compatible..?
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sharasa

Ex Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #27 - on: 09.09.2007 at 21:57 [UT+1] »Quote from Pamela861 on 09.09.2007 at 18:11 [UT+1]:

Sharasa, I agree with this. You can tell a lot about the person doing the reading by the nature of their readings. One erstwhile forum
poster used to analyze charts of women's potential romantic partners, and invariably found each to be a horrible, violent man, if not apotential murderer. One horary reader will arrive at with mostly negative outcomes, whereas another tends to predict sunnier events.
There has to be more going on than pure, objective technique.
The astrologer (or tarot reader, etc.) projects something of him/herself into the reading. How could they not? My theory is that all writing
is autobiography, all portraits are self-portraits, and all analysis is self-analysis -- to some extent.

So true - it creates a paradox of sorts that my mind sometimes has difficulty getting around. Others mirror
ourself and we mirror them back so finding the place where you end and they begin can be a real maze. Mirrors
within mirrors within mirrors. Makes you dizzy just thinking about it- no wonder reality is so difficult to define.
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AchernarMember

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #28 - on: 09.09.2007 at 23:07 [UT+1] »Quote from SeaGoat72 on 09.09.2007 at 18:30 [UT+1]:
Hi Pamela, so true... The only way to get more accurate reading, then, is to find an astrologer with whom one is compatible..?

Well that might certainly help, though is the risk that if you were too compatible, the astrologer might sharesimilar blind spots!

Posts: 778
Gender:I certainly find it much easier to work with charts when I feel some affinity with many of the placements, but
this makes me human, which is probably not politicaly correct any longer.
I wonder if astrological readings should be conducted by a committee? Well maybe not.....
Truly excellent posts in this thread, if I adjust my mirrors carefully
Best wishes
Achernar

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Jupiter's Daughter

Member

Re: Too much information spoils the brew?
« Reply #29 - on: 10.09.2007 at 16:08 [UT+1] »I think it depends on the maturity of the reader - when people have worked through a lot of their stuff, they
are less inclined to project it. HOwever, people are lessinclined to see things that are out of their realm ofexperience, no matter how mature they are. Often times the most value comes from the person who is mostdifferent, because they can see possibilities we are blind to. It doesn't hurt to try different readers, and to
Posts: 1767

carefully consider any advice anyone gives you, no matter what their credentials. I suggest relying on yourinstincts and the general "feel" of the person. in my experience, readers who are stuck on their own stuff areuncomfortable to be around and people who are healing are very pleasant to be with. I dont know about
astrolgoy by committee - reminds me of some of the chart chats we used to have at AOL back in the good olddays before unlimited hours....

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