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Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious (Read 3985 times)

SyzygyEx Member

Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« on: 18.05.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1] »Do you have experience that you can discuss regarding dealing with your own conflicted behavior or that of others? Have you
seen that other people say one thing, and then do another? There are many times you might notice that someone is operatingfrom the subconscious, yet when you attempt to point it out to them, the conversation goes nowhere, because they simply
cannot see it (which makes sense; the behavior is subconscious for a reason). Yet it causes tremendous damage to behave
subconsciously, to say one thing and do another.
I am also wondering if this stems from too much conflicting energy in the chart. If you're dealing with someone who has
discordant energies represented (such as planets in houses that are in natural conflict--b in e's natural house or somethingsimilar) and/or many squares, or oppositions?
Also, is the subconscious represented by J aspects, do you think, or is it more widespread in the chart than that?
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Das Stavrou

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #1 - on: 18.05.2009 at 18:36 [UT+1] »I'm doing this all the time with AgnBa
Sun (conscious operating mind) wants fairness and conjunct Saturn it wants the proper expression of thisfairness which often conflicts with my Aries moon (subconscious needs for energy in motion) - which simply
wants to do what it wants to. I've often found in the past i've started arguments by interjecting something
controversial and waiting for someone to slip up so i can be that Aries moon without having the Sun/Saturn
Libra stop me with its "This isn't right" spiel. Needless to say i've found much more healthy ways of using it
these days!
I think conflicting energy is one aspect of it but more often than not it's the unawareness of the subconscious
faculties that precipitate most of the behaviour. The subconscious will have it's way whether you know about itor not because it must for your energy to operate. Also awareness of the subconscious cannot be comparedwell with awareness of conscious mind because there are no thoughts in the subconscious, it's all rapid"knowing, feeling, sensation" --- the conscious mind can go round and round in circles analysing and going "i'm upset because so and so said this to me and they are a so and so, or perhaps i am upset because of so andso forgetting to do this, hmm let me think about this" --- wheras the subconscious is rather like a baby - "thishurts i will cry" "i want to be loved" --- conflicting chart energy is interesting because it directly affects theawareness of the subconscious impulses.
I find the subconscious to be directly symbolised by everything lunar in the chart - 4th house/moon --- though
it's interesting you mention Pluto because in many cases i've worked with Pluto has been the one (throughstark ruthlessness) to bring awareness of these underlying operations through the mind.
Can you tell i have JoB by transit now *S*
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Alice T
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #2 - on: 18.05.2009 at 18:49 [UT+1] »I'm constantly having to deal with situations whereby my subconscious blocks and resists the aspirations of the
conscious mind. It can be very draining, and requires a lot of stamina and love of life (which I have,fortunately) not to become depressed and resigned.

Bm G, BoJ, GoJ, BoF, Jo ASC.

Posts: 1435

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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #3 - on: 18.05.2009 at 19:00 [UT+1] »Das, I had a friend who has, sadly, passed on now, who was a gA, Ba. She started every single
conversation with "no," even when she was agreeing with me. It was very funny, but not a little frustrating.

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BasantiMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #4 - on: 18.05.2009 at 19:15 [UT+1] »I apprenticed in The Four Agreements tradition as well as so many other paths. I am so hyper aware of my self
and actions that most of what I experience IS conscious. My subconscious might have its feelings, but I dive into pluto realm and make it conscious. Its my job. (Sun conj sat) my responsibility to my vows to stay awake asmuch as possible.
Posts: 2872
Gender:There are transits that break open the subconscious wounding like chiron sq sun that kicked my butt, but I
went right back into consciousness again when it ended.
The 4 agreements increase awareness of ones subconscious "assumptions" by witnessing the emotional charge.
But not all emotion is based on subconsciousness, not for me. I don't make too many assumptions about myfeelings and where they come from (projection) I KNOW they come from projection at all times and its
conscious...
The hard part is dealing with entirely unconscious people who say one thing and yet the undertow of
unconscious and subconscious behavior wins. Its like their subconscious is closer united with their unconscious
instead of their consciousness that makes it entirely impossoble to deal with. If you are tying to have afunctional relationship and your conscious and they aren't its like pissing in the wind. It doesn't work unless
you want it all over your face.
So I now watch "most" people say one thing and do another. Its sad because most people are incongruent. It
takes time to witness a person to see if they have integrity and of course if you are unconscious of what
integrity is to begin with, you won't be able to identify it...so I am making slow friendships these days with few
people. I have about 5 people in my life who are conguent and that's it. The rest are draining drama queens.
I never make peomises I can't keep and if I feel the winds change and I don't think ican keep my word, I bringall people to the table and tell them. I need conscious integrity in my life and I'd rather be alone than dealing
with so much drama from others. Life gives me a lot if I'm not discerning and too accepting.
So yes Sy, I have loads of experience. Even if I'm projecting I'm still very watchful of it. Have to be.

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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #5 - on: 18.05.2009 at 19:21 [UT+1] »According to the ''Psychological'' persepective most of the chart is beneath the 'conscious' generating all theseovert 'behaviours'.................
this is the 'point' of psychotherapeutic interventions (in the main)
the chart will provide a clue (once you 'understand' the symbolic geometry) as to what's buried where andwhy............
the term 'subconscious' has lost it's (long ago) meaning these days and but is still employed in lay circles (andgenerates a lot of confusion) - Janet introduced it, and Freud threw it out
sorry to 'ruin' this thread...................
it does show up in 'hypnotic' circles now and then.....................
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Das Stavrou
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #6 - on: 18.05.2009 at 19:26 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 18.05.2009 at 19:21 [UT+1]:
According to the ''Psychological'' persepective most of the chart is beneath the 'conscious' generating all these overt'behaviours'.................
this is the 'point' of psychotherapeutic interventions (in the main)
the chart will provide a clue (once you 'understand' the symbolic geometry) as to what's buried where and why............
the term 'subconscious' has lost it's (long ago) meaning these days and but is still employed in lay circles (and generates a lot ofconfusion) - Janet introduced it, and Freud threw it out

sorry to 'ruin' this thread...................
it does show up in 'hypnotic' circles now and then.....................

You haven't.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #7 - on: 18.05.2009 at 19:30 [UT+1] »no, actually, thank you Charles; I was hoping someone would point that out.
no ruination yet.

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hss4x4
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #8 - on: 18.05.2009 at 19:42 [UT+1] »I wonder if the AoI might also have something to do with this? people always tell me that I am always
contradicting myself. I never understand exactly what they mean, but I ask them to explain, and it is always
difficult for the other person.
I am beginning to think that I might have a conflicting personality, yet I work quite hard at being to the point
and to be as exact as possible.
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #9 - on: 18.05.2009 at 20:38 [UT+1] »Quote from Das Stavrou on 18.05.2009 at 19:26 [UT+1]:
sorry to 'ruin' this thread...................

You haven't.
[/quote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious
Not everything is in that phone of yours.......................maybe change the Network Provider from
'Psychobabble' to 'read up on it less babble'.........................?
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QuerianMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #10 - on: 18.05.2009 at 20:40 [UT+1] »I notice this a lot with both my oppositions and my squares. Working to balance myself helps. I imagine it all
to be a wheel and I center myself at the hub. The hub is still while the outside of the wheel keeps spinning
round and round.

Posts: 3217
Gender:A n B (Ptolemaic only, not in orb)
BnD
C n f Asc
GnI
CoG
CoI
EoJ
I've also noticed it with my quincunx:
BsC mind and heart often desire incompatible things.
The more centered I am, the less conflicted.
The more conflicted I am, the more off balance I am.

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Quinn

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #11 - on: 18.05.2009 at 20:43 [UT+1] »i've been aware of different parts of myself for years and was quite amused by it at one point...i have it easy on
the head/heart level...they generally agree and i can also be aware of thinking one way but knowing another....
i have a BnO and that(or that part of myself) does cause problems...
i can't say i'm completely integrated because i'm not and i'm not sure it is possible to get all of my bits to work
together but saying that i think if you can be flexible in which part of yourself is in the driving seat you can use
it to your advantage
there's a lot to be said for knowing yourself but acceptance also plays a big partmost people say one thing...do another yet think something different again....i don't think they do this because
they are unevolved as such i think alot of it comes down to them pleasing other people instead of themselves..
and fearhonesty frightens the life out of some people
i've had quite a bit of therapy over the years and quite like it

i have learned some stuff throughit...especially the first timei agree that the word subconscious is overused and less meaningful nowadays but then so is "spirituality"...icould throw in a few more but won't
most parents don't teach their kids how to deal with inner conflict....and i'm not surprised...it's complex stuff
for some
as for friends/family it's hard...the truth is other people are our biggest teachers yet if we don't enter the arena
every now and again we lose opportunity yet at the same time it can cause damage...is that a conflicted
opinion?
well conflict is a lack of balance ultimately
the same idea with that point

edit had not seen your post before i posted but looks like we had

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leigha9
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #12 - on: 18.05.2009 at 20:52 [UT+1] »I have very conflicted energy about me.. first is a split down the middle with all fire and all water signs, bothstrong but both so different. i have a A n g rising. E and G in the same sign and house, but not quite
conjunct about 16 degrees apart.
so part of me is fiery passionate, in your face, opinionated, strong, materialistic, driven, stubborn... ect ect thelist goes on
Posts: 1859

and the other part, which i think is somewhat stronger.. is extremely soft, kind, agreeable, compassionate,
warm, emotional, sensitive, shy, deep, spiritual....
with E so close to G my drive and ambitions and my energy seem to be stuck.. they are strong and there, butseem stuck

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Das Stavrou

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #13 - on: 18.05.2009 at 20:54 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 18.05.2009 at 20:38 [UT+1]:
Quote from Das Stavrou on 18.05.2009 at 19:26 [UT+1]:

sorry to 'ruin' this thread...................

You haven't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious
Not everything is in that phone of yours.......................maybe change the Network Provider from
'Psychobabble' to 'read up on it less babble'.........................?
[/quote]Charlie.
There was no need really was there.
What's your problem?
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nowhereEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #14 - on: 18.05.2009 at 20:59 [UT+1] »It is inevitable that human beings are conflicted.
We are of divine origin but existing on the physical plane as part and parcel of a Cosmic Ignorance or Nescienceof this divine essence - unconscious. This is the "catch" of human material earthly existence - we must use thevery substance of ignorance and an ignorant cognition to realize our divine essence.
This speaks to the issue of transcendence in another thread, but here it is about the fact that this conflict isendemic to the very nature of REALITY for us. As such I cannot imagine any chart that would not haveindications of some conflict. In fact, the esoteric school views the entire mutable cross as symbolic of thisconflict in nature, as the intrinsic ignorance of existence informed by ceaseless change and mutation producing
endless conflict - but also opportunity for reconciliation as well. This reconciliation is attainable by the necessity
to widen perspective (or persist in unconscious conflict) to the point where these "apparent" conflicts converge
into unity.
The fixed quadruplicity is representative of energies that persist in specific orientations inspite of mutating
circumstances, rather than adapting, and that too can be see also as an apparent conflict, although withdifferent means supporting eventual change.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #15 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:04 [UT+1] »nowhere, I think this is an excellent point, one I was hoping someone would raise, since it's so obvious, isn't
it? We are all a mass of contradictions. However, the real question I am raising has to do with trying to copewith one's own contradictions, and those of others'. The subconscious wants one thing; consciously we say wewant something very different. Those are two very different forces tugging at one, compelling a person torather odd behavior at times. Not to mention discordant identity issues, self-expression coming out all wrong,the person saying they will do something, then inadvertently "forgetting," and other forms of possibly passiveaggressive behavior, brought on by the tension of these inner conflicts.
And what of learned beliefs, influencing one's behaviors? Those things you were not "allowed" to do by yourpossibly repressive upbringing, that you nonetheless must do for individuation? Or simply out of curiosity??
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QuinnEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #16 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:08 [UT+1] »DS myBis ina with annOg and yet my partner has BGmd the most noticable time it shows is when i wantto move house ...i see the adventure and he freaks out at the threat to his home ( his mis in 4th) our moons areo so myO ohis B...mostly we can adapt to the fact we are different but when it plays out it is so text bookand even with awareness it doesn't make it go away....but i do understand the old ag conflict and thankfully
J won't hit that one for me for a while yet...think i need more time
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veda sastra

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #17 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:08 [UT+1] »Quote from Sun Kitty on 18.05.2009 at 19:15 [UT+1]:
I apprenticed in The Four Agreements tradition as well as so many other paths. I am so hyper aware of my self and actions that most ofwhat I experience IS conscious. My subconscious might have its feelings, but I dive in to pluto realm and make it conscious. Its my job.
(Sun conj sat) my responsibility to my vows to stay awake as much as possible.
There are transits that break open the subconscious wounding like chiron sq sun that kicked my butt, but I went right back into
consciousness again when it ended.
The 4 agreements increase awareness of ones subconscious "assumptions" by witnessing the emotional charge. But not all emotion isbased on subconsciousness, not for me. I don't make too many assumptions about my feelings and where they come from (projection) I
KNOW they come from projection at all times and its conscious...
The hard part is dealing with entirely unconscious people who say one thing and yet the undertow of unconscious and subconscious

Posts: 1391
Gender:behavior wins. Its like their subconscious is closer united with their unconscious instead of their consciousness that makes it entirely
impossoble to deal with. If you are tying to have a functional relationship and your conscious and they aren't its like pissing in the wind. It
doesn't work unless you want it all over your face.
So I now watch "most" people say one thing and do another. Its sad because most people are incongruent. It takes time to witness aperson to see if they have integrity and of course if you are unconscious of what integrity is to begin with, you won't be able to identify
it...so I am making slow friendships these days with few people. I have about 5 people in my life who are conguent and that's it. The rest
are draining drama queens.
I never make peomises I can't keep and if I feel the winds change and I don't think ican keep my word, I bring all people to the table andtell them. I need conscious integrity in my life and I'd rather be alone than dealing with so much drama from others. Life gives me a lot if
I'm not discerning and too accepting.
So yes Sy, I have loads of experience. Even if I'm projecting I'm still very watchful of it. Have to be.

Refressing realizations Sun Kitty thanks for sharing I am of the same mind,I think that occasional plunge inthe sub conscious brings the gift of awareness and the integrity as a human being.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #18 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:12 [UT+1] »Quinn, I completely understand what you're saying. The problem with the B will always be that rational
explanations, reasoning and time and experience will not easily overwrite the B. It is our primal urge that wecannot identify rationally, and intellectual awareness of its existence, force and power over our behaviors will
simply make the B laugh at the concept of being "controllable." It is not controllable, hence its power over ourconscious and rational mind/beliefs. Wrestling with the B is usually a fruitless enterprise, but one can certainly
try.
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #19 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Das Stavrou on 18.05.2009 at 20:54 [UT+1]:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious
Charlie.
There was no need really was there.
What's your problem?

Challenge Wikipedia, not Charlie.
I'm sure the thread will plough along oblivious of the 'facts' here (they usually do)...........Education isn't partof the New Age mentality is it?

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QuinnEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #20 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:24 [UT+1] »the only way i found to cope with others denial/splits is to acknowledge them and re-focus onto my own inner
stuff,i used actually feel responsible for pointing things out/helping them but not anymore,i will tell them what
i notice but don't make a big deal out of it, i usually find there's something in me that needs to be brought tothe surface and i'm no longer quick to blame or project that its all them and not me...neither do i always think
it's always about me but i do look more closely after i've had a breather for 10 mins and regained some headspace
it is harder if you are dependant on your family...know one girl with AmGJ and she has some right argumentswith herself over doing the"right" thing and being herself... and a family member of mine looks really good on
paper and in the eyes of "society" but the reality is misery and suppression......
i think it's important to let people know you see their conflict even if they don't do anything about it.....it's noteasy after all, if it was so simple to work on thes things and do something about it then everyone would do it
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Quinn

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #21 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:29 [UT+1] »good gawd charlie you really do have an issue, have you tried looking at that one yet? the one where you haveto gain intellectual oneupmanship in order to validate your point? i always think you make good points til thesarcasm slips in
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #22 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:31 [UT+1] »Charles, don't be too quick to leap to the defense of these supposed "facts," most of which are in highcontention in academic and psychological fields. Terminology is always under scrutiny and is constantly being
reevaluated and argued, as it should be.
And, do not discount the worth and/or value of leaving a topic deliberately open-ended when one is dealing
with all different educational levels, an approach that works well in any teaching environment, including thisone, which it often is (although it frequently devolves rapidly into something much less educational, more
nonsensical, thanks to many different people's voices on occasion, including both yours and mine).
Psychobabble indeed.
Now, go back to work and make some money and stop playing in the sandbox. Ignore us all for a time and let
us get on with this nonsense. You must have more important things to do, surely?
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nowhereEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #23 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:38 [UT+1] »Doesn't this come back to the same issues we see over and over in these metaphysical/psychologicaldiscussions:1) what are the components that constitute a human being
2) what are the characteristics and range of expressions/limitations of those components
3) which component is dominant at any given time in making choices for the being3a) According to 1-3, are these components in their nature or until somehow transformed, intrinsically in
conflict with the characteristics of other components ( discordant identity issues)
4) what are the possible means of changing orientation, choosing more productive components, andintegrating components as determinants of behavior/life "quality"5) what are those more positive orientations
6) what are the possible means/expedients/practices to effect those desired changes7) how is capacity, receptivity, willingness defined and how do they determine the process and outcomes of #6
8) in all of this what determines the level of cognition of the reality in question for any person and is itcommensurate with the necessity for change if change is even seen as necessary. What are these mechanisms of
cognition or are they the very components of being as in 1-3?
What are we trying to "acquire", why, and how is this being accomplished?
All these different forms of conflict and discord have their basis in what was previously mentioned. The chart
may show the specific forms for different people, but the underlying issues are universal.
For me the only solution is the deliberate conscious process of using some means of transformation of these
ignorant conditions, and that will be different for different people. Example: Buddhism, etc. Until and evenwhile this happens, everything in life has the potential to be repressive, conflicted, ignorant - upbringing,society, spouse, neighbor, even one's own body in some cases, etc - its endless, whether internal or extrernal.
Did you want to focus on a specific issue?

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Syzygy
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #24 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:43 [UT+1] »yes, forgive me if that was not made clear in the OP, but the issue is as I have stated above... you get it,
don't you? It's not as broad as you're indicating, at least not for me. Now, the overall chart is a major factor
always, it cannot be ignored or overlooked, and one can knock this philosophical wicket over again and again,
but problems within self-expression always require the wicket to be picked up and stuck back into the groundso as to try again, possibly by playing a new set.
The question is: how does one deal with subconscious urges and discordant behaviors in self and others? What
are your coping mechanisms?
Every time I try to point out discordant behaviors (I say to the person: you said one thing, but did another), I
am usually presented with a wall of denial--I never said that, I never did that, you are mistaking my meaning,
etc. This is crazy-making behavior. It runs rampant in dysfunctional families, for example.
How about you?
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Steve3

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #25 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:53 [UT+1] »syzygyeieio,
in your original post you mentioned J. Why? Is it that you're pointing to the obsession that J represents?
And with obsession, what we perceive is often not what is real.
I would have guessed G, and not J.... only because in my meager understanding of jungian astrology, I
thought that G represented our subconscious. If that's not true.......I'm willing to learn.
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Charlie Charles

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

2nd« Reply #26 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:58 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 21:31 [UT+1]:
Charles, don't be too quick to leap to the defense of these supposed "facts," most of which are in high contention in academic andpsychological fields. Terminology is always under scrutiny and is constantly being reevaluated and argued, as it should be.
And, do not discount the worth and/or value of leaving a topic deliberately open-ended when one is dealing with all different educational
levels, an approach that works well in any teaching environment, including this one, which it often is (although it frequently devolves
rapidly into something much less educational, more nonsensical, thanks to many different people's voices on occasion, including both yours
and mine). Psychobabble indeed.
Now, go back to work and make some money and stop playing in the sandbox. Ignore us all for a time and let us get on with thisnonsense. You must have more important things to do, surely?

I'm stating the facts not defending them, you are challenging them (unwittingly) in your opening post by using
a word which lacks the linguistic currency you'd assumed - you said somewhere (i vaguely recall) you wereinterested in 'words'?
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #27 - on: 18.05.2009 at 21:59 [UT+1] »well, B too, Steve3eo.
Why J? Cause. It came to mind. No sinister reason, that's for sure, and maybe not even all that well thought
out. You try coming up with threads and see how precise you are...
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nowhereEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #28 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 21:43 [UT+1]:
yes, forgive me if that was not made clear in the OP, but the issue is as I have stated above... you get it, don't you? It's not as broad
as you're indicating, at least not for me. Now, the overall chart is a major factor always, it cannot be ignored or overlooked, and one canknock this philosophical wicket over again and again, but problems within self-expression always require the wicket to be picked up andstuck back into the ground so as to try again, possibly by playing a new set.
The question is: how does one deal with subconscious urges and discordant behaviors in self and others? What are your coping
mechanisms?
Every time I try to point out discordant behaviors (I say to the person: you said one thing, but did another), I am usually presented with awall of denial--I never said that, I never did that, you are mistaking my meaning, etc. This is crazy-making behavior. It runs rampant in
dysfunctional families, for example.
How about you?

What family isn't dysfunctional on some level?

Mainly, I meditate and have tried as an adjunct to that, being more detached from what is going on externally,
even internally. Iow's i may negotiate a provisional interaction, but try not to be attached to any outcome,whether in "my favor" or not. I try to adopt Krishna's advice to Arjuna in the Gita, "You are entitled to thework, but not the RESULT", and as such, then offer everything to God. It is very stress reducing. You can't force
people to do or behave as you want them to, and it might even be productive to not even want them to be one
way or another anyway.
Is this more in line with where you were going with this?
ps - so just change "sub-conscious" to "unconscious" - big deal.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #29 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:04 [UT+1] »yeah, whatever... one tires of the drama of dealing with people who insist on some kind of connotative meaningof a word that has more than one meaning, denotative or connotative, especially when the meaning is highly
contentious to begin with, and literally thousands of books are written on the subject, none of which have cometo any realistic consensus on what this one word means.
anyway, nowhere, yes, I hear what you're saying.
don't be attached to outcome. good idea.
Very Zen.

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Das Stavrou
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #30 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 18.05.2009 at 21:13 [UT+1]:
Quote from Das Stavrou on 18.05.2009 at 20:54 [UT+1]:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious
Charlie.
There was no need really was there.
What's your problem?

Challenge Wikipedia, not Charlie.
I'm sure the thread will plough along oblivious of the 'facts' here (they usually do)...........Education isn't part of the New Age mentality isit?

Why not get to the point Charlie instead of incessantly running about in these circles?. You want to call me
uneducated because of my mentality which is different to yours? what is your problem?

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #31 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:06 [UT+1] »Quote from Steve3 on 18.05.2009 at 21:53 [UT+1]:
syzygyeieio,
in your original post you mentioned

J. Why? Is it that you're pointing to the obsession that J represents? And with obsession, what weperceive is often not what is real.
I would have guessed

G, and not J.... only because in my meager understanding of jungian astrology, I thought that G represented our

subconscious. If that's not true.......I'm willing to learn.

You could look up subconscious at wiki.............
and then google Analytical Psychology and search for the word, if you find it I'd be interested in knowing thelink as they might not be to familiar with the 'model'
so it's not true!
BTW - In this model the Outers are transpersonal planets which are conceptualised as operating within theCollective Unconscious, i.e if/when the 'event's of our time filter into our personal lives (described by outerplanet contacts with the planets ABCDE/zodiacal points) then you could strecth a narrative to say Pluto is'almost' conscious. However usually the outers represent something which is beyond our control or evencomprehension so they do have a somewhat 'fatalistic' reputation, which surprises those who think
Psychological Astrology is about 'controlling' your 'fate'.
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Charlie Charles

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

2nd« Reply #32 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:10 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Quinn on 18.05.2009 at 21:29 [UT+1]:
good gawd charlie you really do have an issue, have you tried looking at that one yet? the one where you have to gain intellectual
oneupmanship in order to validate your point? i always think you make good points til the sarcasm slips inThis (alleged) sarcasm might be in my (alleged) subconscious.............
why would gawd be good?
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #33 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:12 [UT+1] »Das, we have some options here.
One, we can ignore him. This is usually my choice, although today I have time, so I'm choosing to engage,
never a wise choice for me, since idiots really and truly annoy me.
Two, we can see him for what he is: someone most likely with a mental illness, masquerading as sane. There aresigns of mental illness that are inescapable in people's writing, if you know what to look for. One of them isconstant repetition of themes that lead nowhere and do not add to the previous thought. As you say, repetition
compulsion is not good.
The third option that i can see is registering a formal complaint. Now this won't be the first time CC2 has beenasked to desist/leave the forum/been banned, to my knowledge, so obviously nothing can stop this repetition
compulsion he has of returning, but we can certainly slow him down some. Whaddya say? Time for thisnonsense to stop?
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Steve3
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #34 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:16 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 21:59 [UT+1]:
well,

B too, Steve3eo.

Why

J? Cause. It came to mind. No sinister reason, that's for sure, and maybe not even all that well thought out. You try coming up

with threads and see how precise you are...

I like your threads syzygy. I wish I could participate in more of them. But I have a conflicted subconscious. I
SAY that I'm going to become more structured in my life, bring up a little more of my jA to balance out myemotional d Rising and d S K but I've made little progress on that this year. So, while I could spend days
just posting with you good astrologers and enjoy it, I have to at least keep trying to do other things that are
not as stimulating in the short run but may - through that balance I mentioned - help me to become theperson I think I need to be.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #35 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:18 [UT+1] »Quote from Das Stavrou on 18.05.2009 at 22:06 [UT+1]:
Why not get to the point Charlie instead of incessantly running about in these circles?. You want to call me uneducated because of mymentality which is different to yours? what is your problem?

I made my point in my initial post the word Subconscious no longer has the meaning Szyvgy (more famiiar
with the New Age than the Academic Psychological one- endemic familiarity here - thought it did). She made a
mistake that's all (dont' we all - if I make one, point it out straightaway), but should we allow people to be led
down the garden path and talk about 'all these things' which technically don't make any sense.
Is mars female and Venus male -no, because we are using a language based on conventional norms.
If we don't effective communication becomes impossible.
Makes astrological dabblers look even more stupid in the process.
So nothing to do with your mentality, or education, just the fact you weren't aware of how this word should be
used..........until now. Your welcome.....................
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Charlie Charles

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

2nd« Reply #36 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:25 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote:The third option that i can see is registering a formal complaint. Now this won't be the first time CC2 has been asked to desist/leave theforum/been banned, to my knowledge, so obviously nothing can stop this repetition compulsion he has of returning, but we can certainly
slow him down some. Whaddya say? Time for this nonsense to stop?

Good idea, and ask them to look up the word 'Subconscious'and then 'Nonsense''Repetition compulsion' is also meaningless psychobabble.....................
It would be somewhat ironic if I was banned from this forum..........think about it?
Maybe you should be banned for de-constructing language and confusing some of theconfused...........ignorance is no defence they say!!

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #37 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:28 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1]:

Is the subconscious represented by J aspects, do you think, or is it more widespread in the chart than that?

I think that all planets are capable of acting compulsively or from an unconscious intent. I don't think thesubconscious is represented by Pluto aspects. I think Pluto is blamed/held up too often for any behaviour
perceived as being dark or shadow like in nature. Each planet is capable of emerging from the subconscious
powerfully for good or ill if the individual does not identitfy with the characteristics of that planet or
overidentifies with another to the cost of other energies in the chart. A tendency to deny or repress that whichlies outside the comfort zone of what is acceptable which regard to how we perceive ourselves and how we wish
to be perceved by others can be found anywhere in the chart.
To quote Greene in The Dynamics of the Unconscious "Every astrological symbol contains postive and negative
qualites and a teleology of inherent meaning. Like a prism the view depends on where the source of light islocated."Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1]:[size=14][font=Arial]Do you have experience that you can discuss regarding dealing with your own conflicted behavior or that of others?
Have you seen that other people say one thing, and then do another? There are many times you might notice that someone is operatingfrom the subconscious, yet when you attempt to point it out to them, the conversation goes nowhere, because they simply cannot see it(which makes sense; the behavior is subconscious for a reason). Yet it causes tremendous damage to behave subconsciously, to say one
thing and do anotherI have the misfortune to deal with my mum's unconscious behaviour this weekend. Its a small example. Most ofher behaviour towards me actually seems to be unconscious. Either way this is what occurred.
A number of us had got together to scatter my dad's ashes. We were out for a wake- like celebration, sharing
stories and mum had brought along some old photos which many of us were in. She began to offer various
members of the family photos to keep, when one family member says give them to vivisha as she has beencollecting all the photos and will be scanning them in and emailing them to everyone ( which i am). My mum
laughted lightly and said no if i give them to Vivisha then i will never see the photos again ( meaning that iwouldn't scan them in as i said i would, implying i was unreliable). Now this infuriated me (yes there is historyhere). Shortly after i tackled my mum about this and said something like " i singlehandedly organised dads'
funeral, which included liasing with family members from the other side of the world as well as locally,. i havebeen dealiing with dad's final wishes and organising his documentation and clearing his house and you thinkthat i am not responsible enough to scan and email a couple of lousy pictures What is your problem?"
My mum's response was that she hadn't meant anything by it and whilst saying this her hands were shoving thephotos more firmly into her handbag
She says she will get a friend at work to scan the photos in... I
guarantee she will never get round to this and no one will see the photos again.
Now i don't really have a clue what planet my mum is on. I don't pretend to understand some of the issues that
she has with me though i do know she is completely unconscious of them. I know she has a deep ambivalance
towards me that i don't think she is able to recognise within herself as it would frighten her to acknowledge
these feelings. I am aware of them as she gives herself away all the time with this kind of behaviour.
What i took from this was
She was happy to give the photos away (and never see them again) to the other people present.
She was unable to give the photos to me even temporarily to scan them in
She has an entrenched belief that i am unreliable which is unrelated to my own actions and the evidence before
her eyes (though i admit would be correct when i was a teenager).
When challenged she was unable to acknowledge the above
My mum's view of me as unreliable is a convenient and 'safe' justification for something else she is feeling.
(This is an old scenario).
Unconsciously shoving the photos into her handbag ( as if she feared i would steal them away from her)whilst telling me that she didn't mean anything by it is demonstrative of the "tension and movement" between
what she says she is feeling and the feeling that is emerging from the unconscious that she is attempting todeny.
Quote:
am also wondering if this stems from too much conflicting energy in the chart. If you're dealing with someone who has discordant energies
represented (such as planets in houses that are in natural conflict-- in 's natural house or something similar) and/or many squares, or
oppositions?

I think conflicting energy in the chart would compel a person to deal with this tension, to find a resolution thatworks. This i believe would be easier with the squares and T squares which are more visible ( open conflict).
Oppositions can produce stalemate situations likely making resolution more difficult.
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Das Stavrou
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #38 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:28 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 18.05.2009 at 22:18 [UT+1]:
Quote from Das Stavrou on 18.05.2009 at 22:06 [UT+1]:
Why not get to the point Charlie instead of incessantly running about in these circles?. You want to call me uneducatedbecause of my mentality which is different to yours? what is your problem?

I made my point in my initial post the word Subconscious no longer has the meaning Szyvgy (more famiiar with the New Age than the
Academic Psychological one- endemic familiarity here - thought it did). She made a mistake that's all (dont' we all - if I make one, point
it out straightaway), but should we allow people to be led down the garden path and talk about 'all these things' which technically don't
make any sense.
Is mars female and Venus male -no, because we are using a language based on conventional norms.
If we don't effective communication becomes impossible.
Makes astrological dabblers look even more stupid in the process.
So nothing to do with your mentality, or education, just the fact you weren't aware of how this word should be used..........until now. Yourwelcome.....................

Right.
I'll make this very clear for you since you are concerned with our communication. I appreciate the link and theclarification, I detest the insult.
An apt exchange in such a thread.
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Quinn

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #39 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:33 [UT+1] »quote cc2 ;This (alleged) sarcasm might be in my (alleged) subconscious.............
why would gawd be good?

you flummuxed me charlie and i didn't want to be too offensive...a lame attempt i admit,
i am sure it does show up in your chart but not convinced it's all that subconscious...i think you are aware ofyourself
or maybe that's just me projecting
or maybe i am just baffled because i can see you are intelligent and yet
diminsh the effectiveness of what you have to say by putting someone/something down in an unintelligent
manner...or maybe i am just projecting yet again
or maybe cos E is still close to myB i am looking for a fight to release some emotional pressure...but myC(9th)is pB and F(3rd) is innC so i tend to argue philosophical points or concepts rather than argue personal
points....

but i acknowledge the inner conflict that exists between my lower and higher mind

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BasantiMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #40 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:41 [UT+1] »Vivisha,Have you posted your mothers chart? I'm going to let you know THIS my family what you described.

Posts: 2872
Gender:My father died and all kinds of unconscious crap was slung everywhere over the last 6 months.
Does your mom have Leo in her chart strongly aspected? One thing I have noticied about Leos is they really
only like to give gifts or display (really that's what is-a display) when they have an audience. They rarely give
generosity in private, they must be seen by others as being generous. When your mom started handing out
photos and you had a better idea (which it was) she withdrew so called generosity. I've had many a leo pretend
they are generous but its always with a string (same with cappies).
Also where is yor moms pluto. She sounds so similar to mine. My mom is Taurus Sun, Leo Rising and Pluto
sitting 2 degrees from her ascendant. She is one unconscious person if there is any trace of pain or
entitlement.

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veda sastra

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #41 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:53 [UT+1] »Quote from nowhere on 18.05.2009 at 22:00 [UT+1]:
Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 21:43 [UT+1]:
yes, forgive me if that was not made clear in the OP, but the issue is as I have stated above... you get it, don't you?
It's not as broad as you're indicating, at least not for me. Now, the overall chart is a major factor always, it cannot beignored or overlooked, and one can knock this philosophical wicket over again and again, but problems within selfexpression always require the wicket to be picked up and stuck back into the ground so as to try again, possibly by playing
a new set.
The question is: how does one deal with subconscious urges and discordant behaviors in self and others? What are yourcoping mechanisms?

Posts: 1391
Gender:Every time I try to point out discordant behaviors (I say to the person: you said one thing, but did another), I am usuallypresented with a wall of denial--I never said that, I never did that, you are mistaking my meaning, etc. This is crazymaking behavior. It runs rampant in dysfunctional families, for example.
How about you?

What family isn't dysfunctional on some level?

Mainly, I meditate and have tried as an adjunct to that, being more detached from what is going on externally, even internally. Iow's i
may negotiate a provisional interaction, but try not to be attached to any outcome, whether in "my favor" or not. I try to adopt Krishna's
advice to Arjuna in the Gita, "You are entitled to the work, but not the RESULT", and as such, then offer everything to God. It is very
stress reducing. You can't force people to do or behave as you want them to, and it might even be productive to not even want them to be
one way or another anyway.
Is this more in line with where you were going with this?
ps - so just change "sub-conscious" to "unconscious" - big deal.

I like your transcendental approach and I do think our enstrangement from spiritual reality makes it all themore difficult to deal with conflicts which inevitably are going to ensue.Krishna's advice to Arguna is the best
advice anyone can give a living entity struggling with reality and meditation on it is certainly the key.Since
meditating myself most of the conflict I face or other people's ,is like watching a movie .You see it but it doen't
divert you from your goal.Best wishes in your efforts and thank you for bringing up this type of knowledge.
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Quinn
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #42 - on: 18.05.2009 at 22:55 [UT+1] »e is not normally like that...i suspect J has to shoulder some of what you are pinning on e,my father
hasABCDe and is not like that(not really generous either unless he's getting a round in) but my motherb
is like that and she has J e (sits right on my C)....and i could totally identify with what vivisha was saying
too
i did read that after bereavement ...whatever projections the deceased was carrying are released back into theunit...which causes chaos in the psyches of those left behind...which is made worse if no-one is aware
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #43 - on: 18.05.2009 at 23:23 [UT+1] »Vivisha, at one and the same time I want to say, oh honey... god, I've been there, and also, thank you for such
an illuminating example of the precise behavior I'm talking about.
It constantly amazes me that parents hang on to one vision of you, stuck permanently affixed in their minds
like a butterfly pinned to a board, that one year, when you were 12, you were unreliable. And then.... youchanged. But.... they didn't.
Sounds like a fear mechanism for her, too, a response to loss.
My mother was psychotic after my dad died, but then.... there's nothing new there.
By the way, your scattering of the ashes in one place... is quite lovely (aside from all the internecine drama). In
my family, my mother carried my father's ashes in a teapot (true story) to about 6 places all over the globe,
scattering him hither and yon. He got scattered in the parking lot of a Home Depot, for god's sake, one of his
favorite hangouts. I kid you not. One of his many destinations, perhaps appropriate for a AmF in i...
my heart is with you now. I hope you know that.

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Ed Falis
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #44 - on: 19.05.2009 at 00:07 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 21:43 [UT+1]:...
The question is: how does one deal with subconscious urges and discordant behaviors in self and others? What are your coping
mechanisms? ...

I give the gerbils a big field and watch them running around, knowing they're just gerbils after all, and that if I
don't try to force them somewhere, they'll usually settle down after a while.
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VivishaEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #45 - on: 19.05.2009 at 00:09 [UT+1] »Sun Kitty
Quote:
Does your mom have Leo in her chart strongly aspected? One thing I have noticied about Leos is they really only like to give gifts ordisplay (really that's what is-a display) when they have an audience. They rarely give generosity in private, they must be seen by others
as being generous. When your mom started handing out photos and you had a better idea (which it was) she withdrew so called
generosity. I've had many a leo pretend they are generous but its always with a string (same with cappies).

i am a Leo and i do not relate to what you say.
Quote:
Also where is yor moms pluto. She sounds so similar to mine. My mom is Taurus Sun, Leo Rising and Pluto sitting 2 degrees from her
ascendant. She is one unconscious person if there is any trace of pain or entitlement.

Interesting My mum is a Taurus with an approximated leo rising with Pluto conjunct the asc from the twelfth (ido not have a time of birth for my mum but i'm pretty sure i have nailed it with a noon time. If i'm off i don't
think its by much ).
: Quinn
Quote:
i did read that after bereavement ...whatever projections the deceased was carrying are released back into the unit...which causes chaos in
the psyches of those left behind...which is made worse if no-one is aware

ah well this is an old pattern of behaviour with my mum so i can't blame the circumstances of my dad's
passing. These kinds of things are called complexes for a reason.
Quote:
i suspectJ

well despite what i said in my previous post about pluto you could be right. My mum's Pluto conjuncts my sn
and her mars conjuncts my pluto. However her saturn also conjuncts my moon so she would be inclined todeny/limit responding to any perceived needs of mine.
Quote:
Vivisha, at one and the same time I want to say, oh honey... god, I've been there, and also, thank you for such an illuminating exampleof the precise behavior I'm talking about. It constantly amazes me that parents hang on to one vision of you, stuck permanently affixed intheir minds like a butterfly pinned to a board, that one year, when you were 12, you were unreliable. And then.... you changed. But....
they didn't. Sounds like a fear mechanism for her, too, a response to loss.

yes i would agree there is a fear mechansim there too. But in regard to the loss, she split up with my dad many
years ago and had a pretty low opinion of him. She was there because i invited her, more for the social than forthe ocassion, though i'm sure on some level she said her own goodbyes. He was her past after all and at one
time thought well enough of him.
Quote:
By the way, your scattering of the ashes in one place... is quite lovely (aside from all the internecine drama). In my family, mymother carried my father's ashes in a teapot (true story) to about 6 places all over the globe, scattering him
hither and yon. He got scattered in the parking lot of a Home Depot, for god's sake, one of his favorite hangouts. I kid you not. One ofhis many destinations

well i love that. I think i followed that story on a previous thread of yours and it made me roar out loudWe scattered Dad's ashes onto the ocean followed by 12 red roses. I was waiting for a gust of wind to blow
the ashes back in our faces and for us all to be standing there covered in dust ( something which had Dad beenable to he would have done just for the impish delight in seeing our horror
Anyway yes it was a beautiful
and final goodbye though not without some irreverance. Previous to the scattering there he was in the bar in
the urn at our feet amongst the variety of kids he had sired and the ex's he had seduced. Probaby the fist timein a long time he had been in a bar without a drink.
Quote:
my heart is with you now. I hope you know that.

Thankyou.

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Charlie Charles
2nd« Reply #46 - on: 19.05.2009 at 00:10 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Das Stavrou on 18.05.2009 at 22:28 [UT+1]:

Right.
I'll make this very clear for you since you are concerned with our communication. I appreciate the link and the clarification, I detest theinsult.
An apt exchange in such a thread.

Clear as mud, i'm afraid. You may well have inferred an 'insult' that wasn't 'implied' but that's your narrative
isn't it? Libran's are often disposed to feel, if not insulted, ill at ease when someone is direct and to the point,
so they say...............
So what about this paragraph:
Quote:
I think conflicting energy is one aspect of it but more often than not it's the unawareness of the subconscious faculties that precipitate
most of the behaviour. The subconscious will have it's way whether you know about it or not because it must for your energy
to operate. Also awareness of the subconscious cannot be compared well with awareness of conscious mind because there are nothoughts in the subconscious, it's all rapid "knowing, feeling, sensation" --- the conscious mind can go round and round in circles analysing
and going - "i'm upset because so and so said this to me and they are a so and so, or perhaps i am upset because of so and so forgetting
to do this, hmm let me think about this" --- wheras the subconscious is rather like a baby - "this hurts i will cry" "i want to be loved" --conflicting chart energy is interesting because it directly affects the awareness of the subconscious impulses

What does the bold mean?
No 'thoughts' in the 'unconscious'?.
An unconscious thought is a thought you aren't conscious of,for example:
A prejudice is often prompted by an unconscious thought, or a stereotype.
Or have you ever had a dream only to discover that part of the dream was a conversation someone was having
near to you whilst you sleep, you unconsciously processed these 'thoughts' and they became part of yourdream.
Or what about a computer, we would say it was 'thinking' but it isn't conscious (we might say?)
Or memories - we think about something and then it is encoded in our short/long term memory and we thenbring it back into consciousness. For example - all the thoughts you had about my 1st post here, aren't
immediately availiable to you but you could find some/most of them again I imagine., i.e make yourself 'aware'of them again.
and lets not even get into 'tacit knowledge'
http://philosophy.uwaterloo.ca/MindDict/tacitknowledge.html
Hopefully i'm not reminding you of your angry(conscious/unconscious?) mother with this transit ofyours............

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Das Stavrou

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #47 - on: 19.05.2009 at 00:54 [UT+1] »No sir, 'Libran's are often disposed to feel, if not insulted, ill at ease' when someone acts with immature andunwarranted derision, the type of which colours your otherwise thought provoking text.
On to the more fascinating residues of this facade.
It's my belief that to label the urges and impulses of the 'unconscious' as thoughts is somewhat of a misnomer.
To think denotes processed, analysed data, thought itself is a process, something antithetical to the'unconscious' which operates through feelings, dreams, imagery, memories as you've pointed out. Just my
belief however and i'm as much in the dark as anyone about what is right.
What makes you think (oO) my mother is angry? She seems alright at the moment, sipping on a tea and hasn't
been anything more than a love during the time i've known her and the most violent she's ever been wasprobably against a small yet irritating fly one summer's day.
What you remind me of is Loki.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #48 - on: 19.05.2009 at 00:59 [UT+1] »A recent example of an attempt to control my silly behavior:
Most people find the fact that I am a health food freak and a gourmet vegetarian to be irrational. I smoke like achimney. I am trying to quit. I do not want to quit.
Back to therapy for me, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, this time... T JmN H6 ?

fB/G oc A/E.... Fantasizing about outlawing everything that Rob Reiner and cronies enjoy puts a hugegrin on my face. Momentarily.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #49 - on: 19.05.2009 at 01:09 [UT+1] »yes, but Ed... you've transcended all this nonsense, and it's precisely what i would expect of you... to give thegerbils some food and water and then push them off the wheel...
Das, such a g gentleman.
Is he insulting your MOTHER now?? Good god, this mosquito will stop at no
one's flesh. Such a bloodsucker.
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #50 - on: 19.05.2009 at 01:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 21:43 [UT+1]:

The question is: how does one deal with subconscious urges and discordant behaviors in self and others? What are your coping
mechanisms?

I carry a really big whip and keep a heavy weighted metal ball at the end of my chain.
Posts: 4466
Gender:How I deal with this in others: Quite simply, I 'limit' and 'restrict' the people (and their perceptions) that I let
into my circle of interaction. Of course my circle of interaction has grown quite small.
I may haveoutgrown my location.
Or perhaps I'm just trying to grow into my AmG11th house and jK in the least
painful manner possible!

As for myself: keeping my own urges from creating discordant behaviors, I honor them...but you probably
already knew that.
Maybe when you carry a grand cross w/K, you kind of just finally begin to accept that
there will always be something in your path that will knock you off your 'equilibrium'.
I'm learning to justlay back and enjoy the ride and make darn sure when I'm off-kilter it is of my own doing and no one else's!
I'm not even half joking.
As far as this subject goes, I also wouldn't discount I and it's rose-colored goggles.
When we talk about contradiction in the chart, aren't we really simply talking about any natal chart full of thesemany polarities you've already mentioned?
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #51 - on: 19.05.2009 at 01:45 [UT+1] »Quote from Ed Falis on 19.05.2009 at 00:07 [UT+1]:

I give the gerbils a big field and watch them running around, knowing they're just gerbils after all, and that if I don't try to force themsomewhere, they'll usually settle down after a while.
- Ed

Yes, maybe...............so many potential meanings
My lens is my cats, and/or the feral ones, would eat them so better to keep them safe(R).
It's all a bit yin/yang, mum/dad, extrovert/introvert, 2nd quadrant/4th quadrant..........does the field need afence made of dictionaries ?
Yes and No

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Charlie Charles
2nd« Reply #52 - on: 19.05.2009 at 02:08 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Das Stavrou on 19.05.2009 at 00:54 [UT+1]:
No sir, 'Libran's are often disposed to feel, if not insulted, ill at ease' when someone acts with immature and unwarranted derision, thetype of which colours your otherwise thought provoking text.
On to the more fascinating residues of this facade.
It's my belief that to label the urges and impulses of the 'unconscious' as thoughts is somewhat of a misnomer. To think denotes
processed, analysed data, thought itself is a process, something antithetical to the 'unconscious' which operates through feelings, dreams,
imagery, memories as you've pointed out. Just my belief however and i'm as much in the dark as anyone about what is right.
What makes you think (oO) my mother is angry? She seems alright at the moment, sipping on a tea and hasn't been anything more thana love during the time i've known her and the most violent she's ever been was probably against a small yet irritating fly one summer'sday.
What you remind me of is Loki.

Libra is an Air sign it is disposed to 'think' not 'feel'- it's the least 'feeling' of all the signs, no animal or humansymbolism. This is 1st year astrology. Please don't say I have feelings - of course you do!
As to your 'critique' of Cognitive Science take it up with these folks.. They will give you elements of my'critique' but (hopefully) in a more informed, erudite and sophisticated way...........this isn't my area.
As to your mother/mother image

JoB natally would suggest a mother who might have been inclined torepress her anger and/or experienced 'depression'. But this could also be the 'nativity's ' depression or
repressed anger but it will be tied in with the maternal relationship. You don't have this aspect ?
Pluto transiting the Moon might evoke some childhood 'feelings' of this nature, regardless of a natal contact,
or perhaps not, seeing as we are dealing with these two planets it may be very hidden in your 'unconscious'
but Pluto does lead to a few eruptions, so they say............
More simply the Moon symbolises what makes you feel safe/secure (in your case in Aries (generalising)activity/movement) and for most of us our Mothers make us feel safe particulary in infancy by feeding us,
comforting us, protecting us, responding to our crying, etc. So Pluto will 'challenge' this feeling of safety andyou will unconsciously go back to how you felt as an infant/child within this relationship, etc.
PLuto transits are also seen as having something to do with facing up to the 'truth' as well, but who knows
what for you this may or may not result in.............I find outer planet transits often just pass me by, as I would
expect but that's another complex thread................
Anyway I like your outrage here, it seems of an 'impulsive unfairness' quality which is appropriate when we lookat your dancing lumnaries in this see-saw pattern..........you might want to explore one day how this reflects
your parental dynamic or not as the case may be?
Loki - Norse?- i'll take it as a complimentary insult

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Das Stavrou

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #53 - on: 19.05.2009 at 03:06 [UT+1] »I agree with the statement regarding Libra, you however were the subject of my quotation.
What is your area Charlie?
I do not have Pluto square Moon natally no, Pluto squares my moon currently by transit. Rawr. Pluto has thus
far brought awareness (through it's tendency by transit to invoke strong drive for things unobtainable) of afiery nature i had previously buried underneath mountains of a Saturn in Libra preponderance to act
appropriately. Eruption as a description in this case would be fully merited *S*I like my outrage too, thank you for stoking it within me.
Loki, ah no wasn't meant as an insult. Yes Loki the norse 'god' of myth (oO). Loki in my eyes had as much
wisdom as Odhinn but it was buried largely beneath his capricious nature, and he caused trouble for the higher
purpose of balance.
But i digress now.
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #54 - on: 19.05.2009 at 03:28 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 19.05.2009 at 01:45 [UT+1]:

My lens is my cats, and/or the feral ones, would eat them so better to keep them safe(R).
It's all a bit yin/yang, mum/dad, extrovert/introvert, 2nd quadrant/4th quadrant..........does the field need a fence made of dictionaries ?
Yes and No

Posts: 4466
Gender:Yes Charlie, we've all witnessed this lens as you deal with the 'inferior cockroaches' that plague beneath yourfeet. My condolenses to you, it must be exhausting owning this difficult task of stomping about.
Doesn't J force us to let something go?

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EarthandAir

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #55 - on: 19.05.2009 at 03:29 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1]:

Do you have experience that you can discuss regarding dealing with your own conflicted behavior or that ofothers? Have you seen that other people say one thing, and then do another? There are many times you might
notice that someone is operating from the subconscious, yet when you attempt to point it out to them, theconversation goes nowhere, because they simply cannot see it (which makes sense; the behavior is
subconscious for a reason). Yet it causes tremendous damage to behave subconsciously, to say one thing andPosts: 800

do another.
I am also wondering if this stems from too much conflicting energy in the chart. If you're dealing with someone
who has discordant energies represented (such as planets in houses that are in natural conflict--b in e's
natural house or something similar) and/or many squares, or oppositions?
Also, is the subconscious represented by J aspects, do you think, or is it more widespread in the chart thanthat?

This is probably my number one problem in getting along with others in life. I think eighth house people justsee it much more clearly and are for the most part without hidden agendas because they see their own just as
clearly.
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Charlie Charles
2nd

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #56 - on: 19.05.2009 at 03:37 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Das Stavrou on 19.05.2009 at 03:06 [UT+1]:
I agree with the statement regarding Libra, you however were the subject of my quotation.
What is your area Charlie?
I do not have Pluto square Moon natally no, Pluto squares my moon currently by transit. Rawr. Pluto has thus far brought awareness(through it's tendency by transit to invoke strong drive for things unobtainable) of a fiery nature i had previously buried underneathmountains of a Saturn in Libra preponderance to act appropriately. Eruption as a description in this case would be fully merited *S*I like my outrage too, thank you for stoking it within me.
Loki, ah no wasn't meant as an insult. Yes Loki the norse 'god' of myth (oO). Loki in my eyes had as much wisdom as Odhinn but it wasburied largely beneath his capricious nature, and he caused trouble for the higher purpose of balance.
But i digress now.

What quotation?
I've done the basics with Cognitive ideas some time ago but i'm more interested in what sends people madthan how they learn to read so am more informed as regards 'Clinical' thinking and practice.
Loki - well in the real world I'm the opposite of capricious. I'm what you might call consistently predictable as
regards my 'core', but my communication style can be a bit impulsive which might get your moon a bit
unsettled. Plus i'm not to focused on 'balance' more exposing the nonsense and if not much is left well there weare..............'Less is More' you might say?
Saturn in Libra - so you're of the bland don't disturb the rules generation....................don't you monkey's geta bad press when you consider it's exalted there?
So what's your rising sign - lets hope that isn't bland

What's your ascendent
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IP LoggedCharlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #57 - on: 19.05.2009 at 03:55 [UT+1] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 19.05.2009 at 03:28 [UT+1]:
Yes Charlie, we've all witnessed this lens as you deal with the 'inferior cockroaches' that plague beneath your feet. My condolenses to you,it must be exhausting owning this difficult task of stomping about.
Doesn't

J force us to let something go?

Well i'm not sure even you have grasped all the possible meanings of this last post, or me................
But yes you are giving a truegeminian flavour to the ignore/confront (real/imagined)dialogue(s)'Pluto let things go' - More symbolic of our need(s) to penetrate into our compulsions and enter the place
where our deepest feelings are bottled up, but they do say it might have something to say about someone
undergoing a 'death' within themselves.....................
Scorpio- isn't really about letting things go is it?.are you forgetting the cookbook dogma:possessive, jealous,
vengeful, etc
What's your thinking here?
ps - no one's inferior to me, i've built my career around this 'principle'...........................there's a surprise!
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Friesiangal
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #58 - on: 19.05.2009 at 09:31 [UT+1] »[quote author=Vivisha ]Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1]:

Posts: 6820
Gender:Is the subconscious represented by J aspects, do you think, or is it more widespread in the chart than that?

Quote:
I don't think the subconscious is represented by Pluto aspects. I think Pluto is blamed/held up too often for any behaviour perceived as
being dark or shadow like in nature. Each planet is capable of emerging from the subconscious powerfully for good or ill if the individual
does not identitfy with the characteristics of that planet or overidentifies with another to the cost of other energies in the chart. A
tendency to deny or repress that which lies outside the comfort zone of what is acceptable which regard to how we perceive ourselves andhow we wish to be perceved by others can be found anywhere in the chart.

I might change 'repress' with 'suppress' but I stand on your side of the fence.
Quote:..................I have the misfortune to deal with my mum's unconscious behaviour this weekend. Its a small example. Most of her
behaviour towards me actually seems to be unconscious. Either way this is what occurred............(event)

I know nothing of you or your mum, Vivisha, yet viewed as an outsider, her comment that riled you, which
could be indicative of your attitude towards her/each other, didn't seem to sound offensive, although you
immediately chose to take it as so. I could say exactly the same thing about my sister who has a terrible habitof unintentionally 'hoarding' things for their 'memory value'. Maybe your mum is aware of this side of yournature more than you are, or recognises an unintentional 'forgetfulness' at times. Hopefully, it does not go
deeper in the form of emotional clashes between you, whereby the one is never felt to be seen in a positive
light by the other. You believe that her comment shows that she believes you to be unreliable. That is yourfeeling you place upon the incident whilst it may not be hers, and bears no relationship to her comment at all.
Your practical making of arrangements she was unable to do herself that prove your reliability cannot be takenin the same context as her comment about a possible tendancy of yours in keeping the photos. It's mixing
apples with pears.
Maybe her comment touched something in you of which you are, yourself, not yet fully aware and your dad's
passing and shared grief will open some emotional doors between you that have been kept locked for too long?
My deep sympathy and wishing you every strength during this time of coping with personal loss.
Friesiangal
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Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #59 - on: 19.05.2009 at 10:47 [UT+1] »I see all the various Water symbols as the most unconscious in tendency, but especially Moon/Cancer/4th/S.
Node and Pluto/Scorpio/8th house.
Pisces/12th and the Neptune Jupiter combo represents the transformation of the unconscious into theconscious, particularly that which is unconscious on the deep Soul levels. Neptune though, in and of itself canbe rather unconscious at times, and look how often when Neptune is CON, Opposed (these two especially), andsquares the Sun or Moon in a person's chart, how there are such blind spots in self perception in a person withsame.
Scorpio/Pluto represents swinging from one extreme to another, from very unconscious to conscious, andoften back again and back and forth.
This sets up a necessary friction of sorts between that which is unconscious and conscious, which can help
facilitate eventual reconciliation between these provided one learns the importance of practicing positivy in amore universal and consistent sense. One of the very hard lessons for Scorpio/Pluto to learn, especially since
they are such Fixed energies.
Moon is very unconscious and instinctive, and those with Moon Angular, particularly when CON the ASC or in
the 1st and the Planet closest to the ASC point, well unless other factors and patterns mitigate or counterbalance it (like strong Sun or Mercury energy/placement, numerouls Masculine sign placements especially Air
signs, etc), they can be and often are the most subjective people in the world and can't consciously think their
way out of a Light filled paper bag.
They act as little children in the negative sense, always blaming others, life, etc. for their numerous problems
which they are good at creating and dramatizing. Always projecting their issues onto others.
Positively, they feel, feel, feel and can be sympathetic and kind to others, especially when others are kind tothem in some way.

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

VivishaEx Member« Reply #60 - on: 19.05.2009 at 11:12 [UT+1] »Quote from Friesiangal on 19.05.2009 at 09:31 [UT+1]:
I might change 'repress' with 'suppress' but I stand on your side of the fence.

i don't know how you distinguish between the two? I may be missing the finer points. I'm glad we are inagreementre⋅press–verb (used with object)1.
to keep under control, check, or suppress (desires, feelings, actions, tears, etc.).
2.
to keep down or suppress (anything objectionable).
3.
4.

to put down or quell (sedition, disorder, etc.).
to reduce (persons) to subjection.

5.
Psychoanalysis. to reject (painful or disagreeable ideas, memories, feelings, or impulses) from theconscious mind.
Quote:..................I have the misfortune to deal with my mum's unconscious behaviour this weekend. Its a small example. Most of her
behaviour towards me actually seems to be unconscious. Either way this is what occurred............(event)

Quote:
I know nothing of you or your mum, Vivisha, yet viewed as an outsider, her comment that riled you, which could be indicative of yourattitude towards her/each other, didn't seem to sound offensive, although you immediately chose to take it as so.

Ah well i did choose to take offense largely becuase i found it offensive.
Quote:
I could say exactly the same thing about my sister who has a terrible habit of unintentionally 'hoarding' things for their 'memory value'.

why is it so terrible to hoard things for their memory value?
Quote:
Maybe your mum is aware of this side of your nature more than you are, or recognises an unintentional 'forgetfulness' at times

Its possible though unlikely that her perception is based on me currently as i am. I left home at 16 and am 38
this year. I have been self sufficient and independant of my mum longer than i lived with her. Her knowledge ofme is limited by the distance i have cultivated in order to survive the negatives inherent within the relationshipand her apparent inablity to view me as a seperate individual from her. I struggle under the weight of her
projections. Its possible she struggles under the weight of mine.
Quote:
Hopefully, it does not go deeper in the form of emotional clashes between you, whereby the one is never felt to be seen in a positive lightby the other.

unfortunately yes it does though i am able to view her in a postive light all the same. She is an extremely stoic
and loyal woman. She has a tender heart and a keen sense of decency towards others. Like most she is acontradiction. All the same she has issues with me. My issue within this is i am keenly sensitive to how she
behaves or speaks about me so i can be hard on her. There is a lack of trust in her on my part borne largely
from betrayals on her part ( some calculated, most driven by her unconscious feelings towards me). Many atime my mum has created problems for me and justified these incidences by stating "it was for my own good".
The consequences for me were rarely in my best interests and often actutely damaging.
Quote:
You believe that her comment shows that she believes you to be unreliable. That is your feeling you place upon the incident whilst it may
not be hers, and bears no relationship to her comment at all. Your practical making of arrangements she was unable to do herself thatprove your reliability cannot be taken in the same context as her comment about a possible tendancy of yours in keeping the photos. It's
mixing apples with pears.

Perhaps it is. However the implication of the comment i found derogatory all the same. Connecting the dots ofwhat is meant (exactly) by someones comments is not easy. Particulary if the behaviour exhibited contradicts
that which is said.when challenged. Perhaps she was not implying i was unreliable either way a critiscm was
implied and one i felt was unwarranted and it was done publicily something she frequently does. It's one
example (and a relatively non toxic one in the grander scheme of our relationship) but appeared relevant to thethread subject matter. I am reluctant to cite a litany of events that have occurred over the years simply becuase
i have a loyalty and respect for my mum so that though she is likely to never read my posts on this forum ihave no wish to 'strip her down' publicly. In her own way she is extremely emotionally vulnerable. The conflictin me is defending myself from harm from a person who is deeply ambivalent with regard to her feelings for me
and who (unable to deal with this ambivalence) manifests unconscious behaviour that has the power to hurtme. Yes i give her that power but i give it by virtue of the fact that i love her.
Quote:
Maybe her comment touched something in you of which you are, yourself, not yet fully aware and your dad's passing and shared grief will
open some emotional doors between you that have been kept locked for too long?

My mum is unlikely to be grieving my dad. They had a short relationship which led to my birth. They have had
little to no contact in many many years. My mum moved on a long time ago. She came because it was anopportunity for her to catch up with some old faces. Our relationship is better than it was previously because
bottom line on both sides there is love despite the conflicts that are felt between us
Quote:My deep sympathy and wishing you every strength during this time of coping with personal loss.

Thankyou. I do appreciate your comments
ViviBack to top
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Velvet Sphinx

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #61 - on: 19.05.2009 at 12:28 [UT+1] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 19.05.2009 at 10:47 [UT+1]:

I see all the various Water symbols as the most unconscious in tendency, but especially Moon/Cancer/4th/S. Node and Pluto/Scorpio/8thhouse.
Pisces/12th and the Neptune Jupiter combo represents the transformation of the unconscious into the conscious, particularly that which is
unconscious on the deep Soul levels. Neptune though, in and of itself can be rather unconscious at times, and look how often when
Neptune is CON, Opposed (these two especially), and squares the Sun or Moon in a person's chart, how there are such blind spots in self
perception in a person with same.
Scorpio/Pluto represents swinging from one extreme to another, from very unconscious to conscious, and often back again and back andforth.
This sets up a necessary friction of sorts between that which is unconscious and conscious, which can help facilitate eventual reconciliation
between these provided one learns the importance of practicing positivy in a more universal and consistent sense. One of the very hard
lessons for Scorpio/Pluto to learn, especially since they are such Fixed energies.

This is very true!!

Water signs are prominent in my chart, as are also the 12th and 4th houses. I even have a

Scorpio/4th house and a Cancer/12th house.
What I find is that I realise something about myself, tell myself off about it, determine to behave differently
and confidently expect that I will. What happens? A few days later, my buttons are pressed again and off go
my planetary characters, doing their instinctive 'thing', whatever it is. It might be self-pitying and complaining(Pisces moon), getting suspicious or resentful (Scorpio Mercury and Venus), self-promoting (Leo Ascendant) orsimmering and festering about things not being how I want them (Mars in Cancer).
Then my semi-aware and semi-objective Libra sun says 'Heck, I've done it again! You pesky little blighters....will you just STOP that!'
What I find helps is writing it down in my notebook. Lists of what my Mars is like, for example. Now and then,I look at my notebook again and remind myself. Otherwise, I just relapse all the time. Slowly, I'm movingfrom unconscious to conscious behaviour. Sometimes, I actually even watch myself doing it, and I do it
anyway! As if that planet has taken charge of my energy-matrix for the moment. And then I feel even moredisgusted with myself.
Esoteric teachings say that our energy field is made up of 'elementals' or 'dwellers'. Each one is a semiautonomous 'being' in itself and it's made up of our conditioned behaviours, ie it's an accumulation of aparticular set of thoughts, feelings or even entire complexes. These have a life of their own. They do their own
thing, they battle between themselves (airy Sun versus watery Mars), the only way to diminish their power is torefuse to do what they urge and do something better instead. Then the energy they 'hold' in our auras onlower frequencies is replaced by energy on higher frequencies and gradually we 'transcend' our lesser natureand evolve into our soul's higher nature.
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QuerianMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #62 - on: 19.05.2009 at 13:47 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 18.05.2009 at 21:43 [UT+1]:
yes, forgive me if that was not made clear in the OP, but the issue is as I have stated above... you get it, don't you? It's not as broad
as you're indicating, at least not for me. Now, the overall chart is a major factor always, it cannot be ignored or overlooked, and one canknock this philosophical wicket over again and again, but problems within self-expression always require the wicket to be picked up andstuck back into the ground so as to try again, possibly by playing a new set.
The question is: how does one deal with subconscious urges and discordant behaviors in self and others? What are your coping
mechanisms?
Every time I try to point out discordant behaviors (I say to the person: you said one thing, but did another), I am usually presented with a

Posts: 3217
Gender:wall of denial--I never said that, I never did that, you are mistaking my meaning, etc. This is crazy-making behavior. It runs rampant in
dysfunctional families, for example.
How about you?

Stop trying to point out discordant behaviors of other people, Syz, and like nowhere says, meditate and bringpeace within yourself.
People are all a mirror to each other, so if they are acting unbalanced and it bothers you, then you are probably
unbalanced yourself and they are doing you a favor by showing that to you.
If people act unbalanced and it doesn't bother you and you love them anyway, then, it doesn't really matter.
But going around trying to fix other people's behaviors won't work. All we can do is model the kind of people
we want to meet by being that kind of person. We can't always be perfect but we can be mindful and keep
returning to center every time we get off balance.
I think we can only cope with our own conflicted subconscious. When we want someone else to change to suit
our wants or needs we are projecting our own conflicted sunconscious onto other people.
Just a few thoughts,
SLBack to top
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QuerianMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #63 - on: 19.05.2009 at 14:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Velvet Sphinx on 19.05.2009 at 12:28 [UT+1]:
Quote from direct Jupitarian on 19.05.2009 at 10:47 [UT+1]:

I see all the various Water symbols as the most unconscious in tendency, but especially Moon/Cancer/4th/S. Node andPluto/Scorpio/8th house.
Pisces/12th and the Neptune Jupiter combo represents the transformation of the unconscious into the conscious, particularlythat which is unconscious on the deep Soul levels. Neptune though, in and of itself can be rather unconscious at times, andlook how often when Neptune is CON, Opposed (these two especially), and squares the Sun or Moon in a person's chart,

Posts: 3217
Gender:how there are such blind spots in self perception in a person with same.
Scorpio/Pluto represents swinging from one extreme to another, from very unconscious to conscious, and often back again
and back and forth.
This sets up a necessary friction of sorts between that which is unconscious and conscious, which can help facilitate
eventual reconciliation between these provided one learns the importance of practicing positivy in a more universal andconsistent sense. One of the very hard lessons for Scorpio/Pluto to learn, especially since they are such Fixed energies.

This is very true!! Water signs are prominent in my chart, as are also the 12th and 4th houses. I even have a Scorpio/4th house and a
Cancer/12th house.
What I find is that I realise something about myself, tell myself off about it, determine to behave differently and confidently expect that I
will. What happens? A few days later, my buttons are pressed again and off go my planetary characters, doing their instinctive 'thing',
whatever it is. It might be self-pitying and complaining (Pisces moon), getting suspicious or resentful (Scorpio Mercury and Venus), selfpromoting (Leo Ascendant) or simmering and festering about things not being how I want them (Mars in Cancer).
Then my semi-aware and semi-objective Libra sun says 'Heck, I've done it again! You pesky little blighters ....will you just STOP that!'
What I find helps is writing it down in my notebook. Lists of what my Mars is like, for example. Now and then, I look at my notebook
again and remind myself. Otherwise, I just relapse all the time. Slowly, I'm moving from unconscious to conscious behaviour. Sometimes,
I actually even watch myself doing it, and I do it anyway! As if that planet has taken charge of my energy-matrix for the moment. And
then I feel even more disgusted with myself.
Esoteric teachings say that our energy field is made up of 'elementals' or 'dwellers'. Each one is a semi-autonomous 'being' in itself andit's made up of our conditioned behaviours, ie it's an accumulation of a particular set of thoughts, feelings or even entire complexes.
These have a life of their own. They do their own thing, they battle between themselves (airy Sun versus watery Mars), the only way todiminish their power is to refuse to do what they urge and do something better instead. Then the energy they 'hold' in our auras on lower
frequencies is replaced by energy on higher frequencies and gradually we 'transcend' our lesser nature and evolve into our soul's higher
nature.

I agree about the water signs ...
I recently attended a lecture where the speaker referred to different paths people take, the "wet way" and the"dry way". The wet way is filled with unconscious emotional longings and desires for personal gain ... or we
could say that strong water people are often conflicted because they so strongly desire reality to be different
than the way it actually is, and they want this on a deep emotional level. The dry way is the way of the fire
planets, by burning away personal desires and rising above (like hot air, lol) the emotional turmoil of the deep
waters.
When coping with other people's conflicted behaviors I do in fact find it strongest in those people in my life
with heavy water influences like my mother (hA, dB/Asc) or one of my close friends (hB, dCDG). So
maybe I am projecting my own subconscious onto them, here, or maybe it's just natural that all my air and fire
clashes with all of their water. Still, I can't control them so I do like truegemini says and I limit my exposure
to them while also doing what Ed says and just let them run full speed on the gerbil wheels while I objectively
watch from the sidelines. It's taken several years for me to be able to untangle my own emotions from their
behaviors, but I am so much happier now, and the time I do spend with these people is at least tolerable and I
don't dread it anymore like I used to.
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Das Stavrou
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #64 - on: 19.05.2009 at 14:35 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 19.05.2009 at 03:37 [UT+1]:
Quote from Das Stavrou on 19.05.2009 at 03:06 [UT+1]:
I agree with the statement regarding Libra, you however were the subject of my quotation.
What is your area Charlie?
I do not have Pluto square Moon natally no, Pluto squares my moon currently by transit. Rawr. Pluto has thus far brought
awareness (through it's tendency by transit to invoke strong drive for things unobtainable) of a fiery nature i had
previously buried underneath mountains of a Saturn in Libra preponderance to act appropriately. Eruption as a description
in this case would be fully merited *S*I like my outrage too, thank you for stoking it within me.
Loki, ah no wasn't meant as an insult. Yes Loki the norse 'god' of myth (oO). Loki in my eyes had as much wisdom as
Odhinn but it was buried largely beneath his capricious nature, and he caused trouble for the higher purpose of balance.
But i digress now.

What quotation?
I've done the basics with Cognitive ideas some time ago but i'm more interested in what sends people mad than how they learn to read so
am more informed as regards 'Clinical' thinking and practice.
Loki - well in the real world I'm the opposite of capricious. I'm what you might call consistently predictable as regards my 'core', but mycommunication style can be a bit impulsive which might get your moon a bit unsettled. Plus i'm not to focused on 'balance' more exposing
the nonsense and if not much is left well there we are..............'Less is More' you might say?
Saturn in Libra - so you're of the bland don't disturb the rules generation....................don't you monkey's get a bad press when you
consider it's exalted there?
So what's your rising sign - lets hope that isn't bland

What's your ascendent

Press is subjective twaddle most of the time (though Heather Brooke as of late has given a shining example of
how well the press can be used *S*), so i wouldn't worry about us apes *S*
Cancer rising conj ceres, yourself?
Vivisha the repression suppression question though meaningless in the grand scheme of things had my Jupiterin Virgo in cahoots trying to distinguish. Perhaps suppression can be applied externally as well as internally as
opposed to repression which for the most part seems to be self inflicted. I dont know.
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Velvet Sphinx

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #65 - on: 19.05.2009 at 14:52 [UT+1] »SaturnLover
Yes, the whole world is our mirror, not just people but also circumstances in our environment play out ourcomplexes for us. When Pluto squared my natal Moon, water problems kept erupting in my house, showing me
how I was overdosing on my own watery energies (as if I didn't know - I was getting conscious about them!)
I try to go the 'dry' way of my Libra sun and Leo ascendant. But sun has a square to a 12th house Cancer
Mars, and Leo has a square to a Scorpio Neptune in 4th house. So tugged back to water again!
There goes my Pisces Moon, with her self-defeating complaining again. But I really am quite unsure how to get
onto solid, dry ground and escape these watery complexes of mine.

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Jeanette
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #66 - on: 19.05.2009 at 15:05 [UT+1] »Below is my personal Pullen simple dilineation. Suffice it to say that me and my subconscious are pals and I
have found it almost impossible to follow this thread. Maybe because A and B are in the same sign andtherefore there is no conflict between basic wants and needs? Maybe that would be an easier way to grasp thissubconscious stuff.

Planet: Position
Aspects Total Rank Percent
Sun: 40.0 ( 5) + 45.7 ( 3) = 85.7 ( 4) / 11.1%
Moon: 90.0 ( 1) + 42.4 ( 4) = 132.4 ( 1) / 17.1%
Mercury: 62.0 ( 2) + 3.8 ( 8) = 65.8 ( 6) / 8.5%

Venus: 30.0 ( 7) + 66.0 ( 1) = 96.0 ( 3) / 12.4%
Mars: 15.0 (11) + 47.8 ( 2) = 62.8 ( 7) / 8.1%
Jupiter: 33.5 ( 6) + 26.8 ( 7) = 60.3 ( 8) / 7.8%
Saturn:Uranus:45.0 ( 4) + 0.0 (10) =15.0 (12) + 0.2 ( 9) =45.0 ( 9) / 5.8%
15.2 (12) / 2.0%

Neptune: 61.0 ( 3) + 39.0 ( 6) = 100.0 ( 2) / 12.9%

Pluto:

25.0 ( 9) + 41.5 ( 5) =66.5 ( 5) /8.6%

Chiron: 27.0 ( 8) + 0.0 (11) = 27.0 (10) / 3.5%
Node: 17.0 (10) + 0.0 (12) = 17.0 (11) / 2.2%
Total: 460.5+ 313.1= 773.6/ 100.0%
Sign: Power Rank Percent -Element Power Percent

Aries: 31.0 (12) / 4.0% Taurus: 49.1 ( 7) / 6.3% Gemini: 35.5 ( 9) / 4.6% -Fire: 132.4 / 17.1%
Earth: 140.9 / 18.2%
Air: 102.6 / 13.3%

Cancer: 194.0 ( 1) / 25.1% Leo: 50.7 ( 6) / 6.6%

Water: 397.7 / 51.4%

Virgo: 60.7 ( 4) / 7.8% Mode Power Percent
Libra: 35.8 ( 8) / 4.6% - Cardinal: 291.9 / 37.7%
Scorpio: 72.8 ( 3) / 9.4% Fixed: 203.9 / 26.4%
Sagittarius:
Capricorn:

50.7 ( 5) / 6.6% - Mutuable: 277.8 / 35.9%
31.1 (11) / 4.0%

Aquarius: 31.2 (10) / 4.0%
Pisces: 130.9 ( 2) / 16.9%
Total: 773.6/ 100.0%

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QuerianMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #67 - on: 19.05.2009 at 15:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Velvet Sphinx on 19.05.2009 at 14:52 [UT+1]:
SaturnLover
Yes, the whole world is our mirror, not just people but also circumstances in our environment play out our complexes for us. When Plutosquared my natal Moon, water problems kept erupting in my house, showing me how I was overdosing on my own watery energies (as if I
didn't know - I was getting conscious about them!)
I try to go the 'dry' way of my Libra sun and Leo ascendant. But sun has a square to a 12th house Cancer Mars, and Leo has a square toa Scorpio Neptune in 4th house. So tugged back to water again!

Posts: 3217
Gender:There goes my Pisces Moon, with her self-defeating complaining again. But I really am quite unsure how to get onto solid, dry ground andescape these watery complexes of mine.

I'm sure someone more watery than me has a better answer for this than I do ... I have a singleton in water,
my chart ruler Mercury in Pisces which is the focus of a t-square, so I have struggled with this somewhat .. thewet way, that is, but being mostly air and fire perhaps there is just a basic difference on how to handle thesethings.
One thing I know for sure: when the waters are rough, and there is emotional turmoil, we have two choices:
first, we can get swept up in those waters and possibly drown in so many emotions; second, we can choose to
swim away from the rough waters and to seek a calm stillness, instead. Perhaps both ways are wet ways, but
one way is much more peaceful than the other way. Sometimes it doesn't seem like we have a choice on how
to react to our emotions but by practicing mindfulness and awareness we can eventually see that we do have a
choice and we can keep choosing the calm, still waters instead of of the tumultuous whirlpool of ever-spinningemotion.
Or maybe I just over-intellectualize my emotional reactions as an Aquarius.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Charlie Charles
2nd« Reply #68 - on: 19.05.2009 at 16:28 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Das Stavrou on 19.05.2009 at 14:35 [UT+1]:

Press is subjective twaddle most of the time (though Heather Brooke as of late has given a shining example of how well the press can beused *S*), so i wouldn't worry about us apes *S*
Cancer rising conj ceres, yourself?

Well this is the Astro press more so, I doubt the New York Times editorial team have picked up on it yet, the'what has happened to Pop Music and the Rebellious youth today' is another thread and a few more 'Outer'narratives...........
Cancer rising gives hints as to your sensitivity to Charlie's no nonsense / 'how dare you' role playing..........
That Dwarf Ceres is a bit early doors unless you have those maverick delusions of grandeur
dispositions..............
I can't tell you mine but it should leap out and smack you in the face at some point.....................?
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Quinn

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #69 - on: 19.05.2009 at 17:06 [UT+1] »[quote author=Jeanette link=1242661695/60#66 date=1242741934]Below is my personal Pullen simple
dilineation. Suffice it to say that me and my subconscious are pals and I have found it almost impossible tofollow this thread. Maybe because A and B are in the same sign and therefore there is no conflict between
basic wants and needs? Maybe that would be an easier way to grasp this subconscious stuff.
I don't understand the pullen thing
but wanted to say that just because there is an easy relationship betweenAB it doesn't stop you from having
houses 4/8/12 in your chart or any of the other planets either
aspects to C will show subconscious leanings in communication
DE to relating
and we all have GN giving us grief somewherei have ApBpC and i generally have an easy time knowing what i want and need but that is a too simplistic
way to see it because there is so much else to take into consideration...for a start Co asc and nF which gives
conflict and O nmy B so inspite of the fact my ABC get along the other parts aren't quite so accomodating,a chart full of trines does not imply a healthy subconscious and the negative side of that is it doesn't create thestress necessary to do something about any hidden issues.
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Velvet Sphinx
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #70 - on: 19.05.2009 at 17:11 [UT+1] »No, you said it well Saturn Lover!
I need a still lily-pond or a very calm lake in which the airiness of the sky can reflect itself. A drier version of'wet'. I shall work upon that idea. Thank you.
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nowhereEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #71 - on: 19.05.2009 at 17:17 [UT+1] »Just to point out something to keep in mind in this type of discussion, imo Everything is consciousness in some FORM.
The chart shows how these different forms are integrated and what the potential assets, liabilities andpossibilities are for these various forms. Water does not represent unconsciousness or consciousness any morethan fire, it's just a different form of consciousness with its own highest and lowest expression.
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Jeanette
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #72 - on: 19.05.2009 at 17:30 [UT+1] »[quote author=Quinn link=1242661695/60#69 date=1242749166]Quote from Jeanette on 19.05.2009 at
15:05 [UT+1]:
Below is my personal Pullen simple dilineation. Suffice it to say that me and my subconscious are pals and I have found it almost
impossible to follow this thread. Maybe because

A and B are in the same sign and therefore there is no conflict between basic wants andneeds? Maybe that would be an easier way to grasp this subconscious stuff.
I don't understand the pullen thing

AB it doesn't stop you from having houses 4/8/12 in your chart

but wanted to say that just because there is an easy relationship between
or any of the other planets either

C will show subconscious leanings in communication
DE to relating
and we all have GN giving us grief somewherei have ApBpC and i generally have an easy time knowing what i want and need but that is a too simplistic way to see it because there
is so much else to take into consideration...for a startCo asc andnF which gives conflict and O nmy B so inspite of the fact my ABC
aspects to

get along the other parts aren't quite so accomodating, a chart full of trines does not imply a healthy subconscious and the negative sideof that is it doesn't create the stress necessary to do something about any hidden issues.

OK - but this analysis of the subconscious is creeping me out a bit. I suppose if one wants to find an unhealthy
subconscious and hidden issues in someone else they probably will. The question is what does that say aboutyou. I think a good look at the DC is probably important.
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QuerianMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #73 - on: 19.05.2009 at 17:36 [UT+1] »Quote from nowhere on 19.05.2009 at 17:17 [UT+1]:
Just to point out something to keep in mind in this type of discussion, imo Everything is consciousness in some FORM.
The chart shows how these different forms are integrated and what the potential assets, liabilities and possibilities are for these various
forms. Water does not represent unconsciousness or consciousness any more than fire, it's just a different form of consciousness with its
own highest and lowest expression.

Posts: 3217
Gender:I agree, but I also think that water planets like the moon and Neptune are more associated with thesubconscious or unconscious than fire planets like the sun or Jupiter, although I say that and then realize
Jupiter is also a water planet, as is Mars, so really it doesn't make much sense after all!
That is, what I'm
saying might not make much sense. It was just something I heard of recently and thought fit here in this
discussion.
Air people like me cope by getting away from the turbulent water, I think. Water people may react differently.
Here I am talking about water as representing emotion.

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nowhereEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #74 - on: 19.05.2009 at 18:17 [UT+1] »Quote from SaturnLover on 19.05.2009 at 17:36 [UT+1]:
Quote from nowhere on 19.05.2009 at 17:17 [UT+1]:
Just to point out something to keep in mind in this type of discussion, imo Everything is consciousness in some FORM.
The chart shows how these different forms are integrated and what the potential assets, liabilities and possibilities are forthese various forms. Water does not represent unconsciousness or consciousness any more than fire, it's just a different
form of consciousness with its own highest and lowest expression.
I agree, but I also think that water planets like the moon and Neptune are more associated with the subconscious or unconscious than fire
planets like the sun or Jupiter, although I say that and then realize Jupiter is also a water planet, as is Mars, so really it doesn't makemuch sense after all!

That is, what I'm saying might not make much sense. It was just something I heard of recently and thought fit

here in this discussion.
Air people like me cope by getting away from the turbulent water, I think. Water people may react differently. Here I am talking aboutwater as representing emotion.

And why is "emotion" not a form of consciousness with a range of expression?
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Ed Falis

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #75 - on: 19.05.2009 at 18:27 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 19.05.2009 at 01:09 [UT+1]:
yes, but Ed... you've transcended all this nonsense, and it's precisely what i would expect of you... to give the gerbils some food andwater and then push them off the wheel...

I haven't transcended anything. I'm just suggesting a working approach.
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Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #76 - on: 19.05.2009 at 18:29 [UT+1] »Rather in the broadest and most Archetypal sense, each Planetary energy, sign, etc. is innately faster vibratory
or slower vibratory and hence relativity more consicous or unconsicous than another symbol and energy.
The slower vibrating an energy, the less conscious and aware it tends to be. Physicality in a sense, iscollective spiritual sleep--hence why when we are so focused in and on same, we tend to be quite unconsicous
in the broadest sense of the word--and particularly to our own unrenerated shadow.

The unconciousness of Moon and Pluto is linked to both the vibratory levels of same, that towards being
rather slow vibratory, but also to the peculiar nature of Water towards that of over emotionality and over rightbrainess, which oft times really overwhelms reason, logic, and positive consicous intentions and thoughts. "Hekilled her in a fit of rage."This is not saying there is anything inherently "wrong" with emotion, but cultivating a balanced feeling nature,balanced in relation with logic, reason, discrimination, and conscious positive redirection is very important intransforming the unconscious into the conscious. Mars for example, though a very Fire oriented energy, also
tends to be very unconsciousness, but in different respects than say Moon, or Pluto.
We are touching on some very deep subjects that relate to the collective and individual, temporal turningaway from Source when originally in Spirit, which led to the temporary manifestation of that called"physicality".
In essence, the more we consciously and unconsciously attune to Source Consciousness, the more we tend to
become consciouis to self, others, and all levels of reality in general.
The faster vibratory energies, like particularly Galactic Center and Arcturus, but also the Sun, Jupiter, and toa lesser extent Neptune, when powerfully attuned to and indicated in a chart, oft indicate probability wise that
this person has done a lot of inner work towards this transformation of unconsciousness into consciousness.
As usual, signs are usually less directly indicative of such patterns, but do modify the basic Planetary
Consciousness patterns brought over from the nonphysical levels of ones energies.
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QuerianMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #77 - on: 19.05.2009 at 18:29 [UT+1] »Quote from nowhere on 19.05.2009 at 18:17 [UT+1]:
Quote from SaturnLover on 19.05.2009 at 17:36 [UT+1]:
Quote from nowhere on 19.05.2009 at 17:17 [UT+1]:
Just to point out something to keep in mind in this type of discussion, imo Everything is consciousness in some FORM.
The chart shows how these different forms are integrated and what the potential assets, liabilities andpossibilities are for these various forms. Water does not represent unconsciousness or consciousness any
more than fire, it's just a different form of consciousness with its own highest and lowest expression.

Posts: 3217
Gender:I agree, but I also think that water planets like the moon and Neptune are more associated with the subconscious or
unconscious than fire planets like the sun or Jupiter, although I say that and then realize Jupiter is also a water planet, as
is Mars, so really it doesn't make much sense after all!

That is, what I'm saying might not make much sense. It was

just something I heard of recently and thought fit here in this discussion.
Air people like me cope by getting away from the turbulent water, I think. Water people may react differently. Here I am
talking about water as representing emotion.

And why is "emotion" not a form of consciousness with a range of expression?

It is, I'm not saying it isn't ... but I thought we were talking about unconscious or subconscious stuff here, notconscious stuff, aren't we trying to cope with the conflicted subconscious? Can I say that without getting
sucked into the semantic vortex that seems to be overtaking this thread?
Let me try again ... when I think of coping with the unconscious or subconscious, to me that usually mean
dealing with feelings I am not aware of on a conscious level. That's just me. Maybe other people always know
how they are feeling but I often have to turn to the silence and meditate to sort out my feelings when I am fullof conflicting emotions.
I love Saturn. I must structure my emotions.

BqG I feel like a Vulcan right now.

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Ed Falis
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #78 - on: 19.05.2009 at 18:30 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 19.05.2009 at 01:45 [UT+1]:
Quote from Ed Falis on 19.05.2009 at 00:07 [UT+1]:

I give the gerbils a big field and watch them running around, knowing they're just gerbils after all, and that if I don't try toforce them somewhere, they'll usually settle down after a while.
- Ed

Yes, maybe...............so many potential meanings
My lens is my cats, and/or the feral ones, would eat them so better to keep them safe(R).
It's all a bit yin/yang, mum/dad, extrovert/introvert, 2nd quadrant/4th quadrant..........does the field need a fence made of dictionaries ?
Yes and No

In my view, it's not the categories we put things in - the contents of our thoughts - so much as what we canobserve about how thoughts behave, regardless of contents. And then it's a matter of how we herd them cats or not: working stance.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #79 - on: 19.05.2009 at 18:36 [UT+1] »“This is all nonsense. The shadow is simply the whole unconscious” C G Jung.
If you consider the personal shadow consists of the attributes that you had to put away, ignore, forget or denyin order to identify with who you think you are then it is the most natural thing for the conscious ego to be inconflict with those shadow traits. It is the conflict itself that made you put away those traits in the cupboard in
the basement in the first place.
You see this when Liz Greene talks about the way it is natural for us to identify with one end of a n or o anddeny the other side, which then comes back at us as fate.
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nowhereEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #80 - on: 19.05.2009 at 18:38 [UT+1] »Hi SaturnLover,
Quote:
feelings I am not aware of on a conscious level

Then you wouldn't be experiencing them.
Just to point out again that "feelings" are a form of consciousness too.
To say that "I know my feelings but are not conscious of them" is just giving primacy to the intellectualinterpretation of them which is yet another type of consciousness.
It is still all some kind of consciousness.
Quote:
I often have to turn to the silence and meditate to sort out my feelings when I am full of conflicting emotions

I use the same means to invoke a higher consciousness to deal with (displace) a lower (conflicted)
consciousness, as meditation tends toward unification/integration.
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Pondering HeartEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #81 - on: 19.05.2009 at 19:08 [UT+1] »Hey all,
am kind of tired and not so clear-headed,
but I guess planets in air signs/houses, fire signs/houses and earth signs/houses, could be just as
un-/subconscious and conflicted as water signs/houses placed planets??
Is emotionality now unconsciousness....?
Love as always (what is love?),or trying,
Pondering Heart
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Jeanette
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #82 - on: 19.05.2009 at 19:15 [UT+1] »If an archetypal character lived in each house of your astrological wheel and you sat in the middle watchingthem spin around you what would you see: Kings and Queens, fools, wizards, students, soldiers, artists, monks
and nuns, networkers, vampires, rebels or pirates...etc... Do you see any of these archetypes right here on thisthread (any pirates for example?) There are so many workbooks and methods out there for 'inner work'. Myths
and archetypes come out of the collective unconscious and we are all connected to the collective unconscious(symbolized by FG) through our own subconsciouses...we are the stories we tell...so maybe this is a useful
thread after all since so many are telling stories. Have you read any children's books, seen any children's
movies lately...rich metaphor and symbolism. Can the unconscious be tamed. Yeah let those gerbils out of
their cages --- resistance is not futile --- they don't need to be assimilated.
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veda sastra

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #83 - on: 19.05.2009 at 19:51 [UT+1] »Quote from nowhere on 19.05.2009 at 18:38 [UT+1]:
Hi SaturnLover,
Quote:
feelings I am not aware of on a conscious level

Then you wouldn't be experiencing them.
Just to point out again that "feelings" are a form of consciousness too.
To say that "I know my feelings but are not conscious of them" is just giving primacy to the intellectual interpretation of them which is yet

Posts: 1391
Gender:another type of consciousness.
It is still all some kind of consciousness.
Quote:
I often have to turn to the silence and meditate to sort out my feelings when I am full of conflicting emotions

I use the same means to invoke a higher consciousness to deal with (displace) a lower (conflicted) consciousness, as meditation tends
toward unification/integration.

Well said nowhere,despite what your name suggests you might getting us somewhere and somewhere nice I
dare say.
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QuerianMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #84 - on: 19.05.2009 at 20:08 [UT+1] »Quote from ~ Kent ~ on 19.05.2009 at 18:36 [UT+1]:“This is all nonsense. The shadow is simply the whole unconscious” C G Jung.
If you consider the personal shadow consists of the attributes that you had to put away, ignore, forget or deny in order to identify with
who you think you are then it is the most natural thing for the conscious ego to be conflicted to those shadow traits. It is the conflict itself
that made you put away those traits in the cupboard in the basement in the first place.
You see this when Liz Greene talks about the way it is natural for us to identify with one end of an or o and deny

the other side, which then comes back at us as fate.
Posts: 3217
Gender:So very true!
Good to see you, Kent!
SL

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Querian

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #85 - on: 19.05.2009 at 20:17 [UT+1] »Quote from nowhere on 19.05.2009 at 18:38 [UT+1]:
Hi SaturnLover,
Quote:

feelings I am not aware of on a conscious level

Then you wouldn't be experiencing them.
Posts: 3217
Gender:Just to point out again that "feelings" are a form of consciousness too.
To say that "I know my feelings but are not conscious of them" is just giving primacy to the intellectual interpretation of them which is yet
another type of consciousness.
It is still all some kind of consciousness.
Quote:
I often have to turn to the silence and meditate to sort out my feelings when I am full of conflicting emotions

I use the same means to invoke a higher consciousness to deal with (displace) a lower (conflicted) consciousness, as meditation tends
toward unification/integration.

Lol, I said that, didn't I? Well, my only excuse is that T-Neptune is on my sun! Let me clarify: feelings I have
which I an not aware of the root on a conscious level, but still feel the feelings in my mind/body I consider tobe caused by a conflicted subconscious. Once I dig out the root out these feelings and expose them, then they
are no longer coming from my subconscious and the conflict can be resolved, since I have become aware ofthis. Really, it is the essence of Plutonic work, exposing the shadow and bringing it to light. That is how I
cope. Does Pluto cause the conflict and work to expose them, too? I think so. Just like Saturn creates thebarrier so you can learn the value of being able to handle any barriers that may come your way.
As I said, I am all air so I tend to intellectualize my emotions. It's true.
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Quinn
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #86 - on: 19.05.2009 at 20:46 [UT+1] »quote jeanette;OK - but this analysis of the subconscious is creeping me out a bit. I suppose if one wants tofind an unhealthy subconscious and hidden issues in someone else they probably will. The question is what
does that say about you. I think a good look at the DC is probably important.
i think most of us do have bits that need looking at,but i don't see it as a big deal,i find poking around in the
deep dark corners interesting but i have ah asc and a few other things
around my dc there is nothing and nothing in my 7thi have always been interested in people and by that i mean who they are on the inside,each to their own and allthat...i'd get bored just looking at life on a superficial level or even a day to day one,i'm always looking foranswers inside and out,if i hadn't bothered looking deep i'd have no understanding and far less tolerance ofhuman differences, in learning about myself(and still learning) i learn to identify better with others...and that's
important to me,i might not agree but i'll understand and accept and then i can move on
we all have mannerisms and reactions etc we are not aware of unless its pointed out or we learn to look at
ourselves, for me the thing about going deeper is to get an increased awareness...of me...of others...and of life
itselfi was born into a family where denial caused pain...so i learned in order to remove pain i have to remove denial
so as for what it says about me? maybe it says that i am simply being myself
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Jeanette

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #87 - on: 19.05.2009 at 20:58 [UT+1] »Quote from Quinn on 19.05.2009 at 20:46 [UT+1]:
quote jeanette;OK - but this analysis of the subconscious is creeping me out a bit. I suppose if one wants to find an unhealthy
subconscious and hidden issues in someone else they probably will. The question is what does that say about you. I think a good look at
the DC is probably important.
i think most of us do have bits that need looking at,but i don't see it as a big deal,i find poking around in the deep dark corners interestingh asc and a few other things

but i have aaround my dc there is nothing and nothing in my 7thi have always been interested in people and by that i mean who they are on the inside,each to their own and all that...i'd get bored justlooking at life on a superficial level or even a day to day one,i'm always looking for answers inside and out,if i hadn't bothered looking
deep i'd have no understanding and far less tolerance of human differences, in learning about myself(and still learning) i learn to identify
better with others...and that's important to me,i might not agree but i'll understand and accept and then i can move on
we all have mannerisms and reactions etc we are not aware of unless its pointed out or we learn to look at ourselves, for me the thing
about going deeper is to get an increased awareness...of me...of others...and of life itself
i was born into a family where denial caused pain...so i learned in order to remove pain i have to remove denial
so as for what it says about me? maybe it says that i am simply being myself

OK now that you mention the 8th house. I have an empty 8th house with k on the cusp; O in the 2nd
opposing (sort of mutual reception). Maybe that explains why I don't want to go there. I grew up in a
suppressed environment too - strongly G and I have G sitting right on the DC so...
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #88 - on: 19.05.2009 at 21:10 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 19.05.2009 at 03:55 [UT+1]:
Well i'm not sure even you have grasped all the possible meanings of this last post, or me................

Who could ever grasp the whole meaning of you charlie except for you?
If I had grasped the entire Jo (meaning), I might not have had reason to reply.
If I didn't have at least a partial grasp on the (meaning) of you, then there wouldn't have been enoughcredibility to give me 'reason' in the first place.
Posts: 4466
Gender:Quote:
But yes you are giving a truegeminian flavour to the ignore/confront (real/imagined)dialogue(s)You could say I wear my heart on my sleeve, and make no efforts to disguise my "truegemini" 'flavour'.
Quote:'Pluto let things go' - More symbolic of our need(s) to penetrate into our compulsions and enter the place where our deepest feelings arebottled up, but they do say it might have something to say about someone undergoing a 'death' within themselves.....................
Scorpio- isn't really about letting things go is it?.are you forgetting the cookbook dogma:possessive, jealous, vengeful, etc
What is your thinking here?

Well for the most part I was trying to think on topic.
I'm thinking your ‘critique’ of J the B and the o here was (perhaps inadvertently) supportive to the line ofthinking of how contradiction(in the chart) can manifest in an open expression (and appear) as self-destructive.
I'm thinking this could result in the external perception of this behavior by others as (the native) seemingly
running on contradictory function.
Which would also support that distance from the 'nativity scene' would be the best method of dealing with said
such contradictions that otherwise have one in a state of frustration.
Quote:
ps - no one's inferior to me, i've built my career around this 'principle'...........................there's a surprise!

Not a bit of a surprise at all, I have picked up on these rationalizations from you before.
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Quinn

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #89 - on: 19.05.2009 at 21:20 [UT+1] »i agree with you jeanette,generally the ones who enjoy lurking in the dungeons have emphasis on 8th/J/h

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #90 - on: 19.05.2009 at 21:32 [UT+1] »Good to see you too SaturnLover!

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Jeanette

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #91 - on: 19.05.2009 at 21:35 [UT+1] »Quinn - Interesting though I just reread your post and 8th house wasn't mentioned anywhere - must havepicked that up subconsciously somehow. I like the depths too, but interesting how the 8th and 12th houses
differ...I tend to go deep because it's FUN, but only for myself and I'm really only interested in my own deeper
issues - this could be explained byJ 3rd ruling h in 5th and having I 5th trined to a stellium of personalplanets in the 12th. I guess I was just a bit uncomfortable with the thought of probing the psyches of others
which is an 8th house thing to do.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Charlie Charles
2nd« Reply #92 - on: 19.05.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from truegemini62073 on 19.05.2009 at 21:10 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 19.05.2009 at 03:55 [UT+1]:'Pluto let things go' - More symbolic of our need(s) to penetrate into our compulsions and enter the place where our
deepest feelings are bottled up, but they do say it might have something to say about someone undergoing a 'death'within themselves.....................
Scorpio- isn't really about letting things go is it?.are you forgetting the cookbook dogma:possessive, jealous, vengeful, etc
What is your thinking here?
Well for the most part I was trying to think on topic.
I'm thinking your ‘critique’ ofJ the B and the o here was (perhaps inadvertently) supportive to the line of thinking of how

contradiction(in the chart) can manifest in an open expression (and appear) as self-destructive.
I'm thinking this could result in the external perception of this behavior by others as (the native) seemingly running oncontradictory function.
Which would also support that distance from the 'nativity scene' would be the best method of dealing with said suchcontradictions that otherwise have one in a state of frustration.
Quote:
ps - no one's inferior to me, i've built my career around this 'principle'...........................there's a surprise!
Not a bit of a surprise at all, I have picked up on these rationalizations from you before.

If you regard a Job Description as a rationalization ...............you might be on to nothing here?
As to the Bold I can't make much sense of it, can you help me out here?
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #93 - on: 19.05.2009 at 23:38 [UT+1] »I think it's very important not to confuse all emotions with the workings of the subconscious.
Applying this excerpt of a definition from the latest wikipedia link:
The 'subconscious' may also be supposed to contain (thanks to the influence of the psychoanalytic tradition)
any number of primitive or otherwise disavowed instincts, urges, desires and thoughts.
This sounds much more B-related to me; now, B position definitely deals with one's emotions, but these
emotions are not always guided by rational understanding, and even kA SaturnLoverknow why she does what she does. Now do you??
(Say: no, I do not!!)doesn't always

The point being, the subconscious (a fraught term) exists outside of conscious awareness. Its inner workings, if
you will, are not visible to our consciousness, hence the idea lying behind the term, call it what you will. Thereare "forces," for lack of a better word, that compel us to behave in mutually exclusive ways, much like Vivisha's
mother, whose behavior was a good example of what I'm getting at.
I'm wondering if anyone else has similar examples of that kind of pushme-pullyou behavior. I'll try to come up
with one or two if I can.
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Charlie Charles
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #94 - on: 19.05.2009 at 23:38 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Ed Falis on 19.05.2009 at 18:30 [UT+1]:
In my view, it's not the categories we put things in - the contents of our thoughts - so much as what we can observe about how thoughts
behave, regardless of contents. And then it's a matter of how we herd them cats - or not: working stance.

Well it's not clear to me how we can observe anything about how thoughts can behave regardless of contents?
However my inferred gist of your 'stance' is we adopt a position where the cats (hither and thither) think it's intheir interest where you want them to go. But these 'cats' will inevitably relate to different 'working stances' so
I wonder whose strategy, is more effective in the long run.
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*Abraxas*

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #95 - on: 20.05.2009 at 03:21 [UT+1] »Well I have found having Pluto transit through my 12th house now for the last few years tugging at thesubconscious (Pluto natally in my 8th)(progressed Mars just passed over Pluto in the 8th)-its been a primal
uncovering of deep anger and emotions that I really didn't recognize. I was always quite easy going/happy go
lucky and emotionally detached and reserved for the most part-anger was subdued and controlled. My
progressed Moon is moving over my IC/4th house and progressed IC simultaneously. Of course alot of thePosts: 6447
Gender:hidden subconscious purging was regarding family issues from many years ago that have been
repressed/denied. I felt like the carrier for everyone in my family and it just burst from years of silence. I am
mostly air/fire/earth so I get the water denial and intellectualizing yet I just couldn't do that anymore. Now myMoon has just progressed into Cancer and I can't just stand back and observe/be objective - its become a wash
literally of sadness and pain/most recently with finding out my father is in a critical state with his health. I havenot spoken to him much in the last 10 years/I had issues with his abusiveness and addictions but I always still
liked him-does that make sense? He is an Aquarian and we got along, yet I felt I had to protect family
members /Mom, sister, brother who I didn't get along with great-he wasn't too nice with them either. I wasvery close to him as a young girl and these feelings are being awoken in extreme ways-I had a good talk withhim on the weekend that I haven't had for a long time. These feelings are truly alien to me (warming and cozy)
but still very conflicted.

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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #96 - on: 20.05.2009 at 04:05 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 19.05.2009 at 23:38 [UT+1]:

The point being, the subconscious (a fraught term) exists outside of conscious awareness. Its inner workings, if you will, are not visible toour consciousness, hence the idea lying behind the term, call it what you will. There are "forces," for lack of a better word, that compel us
to behave in mutually exclusive ways, much like Vivisha's mother, whose behavior was a good example of what I'm getting at.

Posts: 4466
Gender:With your full 8th house, I think the word is appropriate.
I wonder, do you consider subconscious and unconscious as one in the same?

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nowhereEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #97 - on: 20.05.2009 at 04:08 [UT+1] »Hi _Inanna_,
You bring up a very good point in this discussion - that being that quite often, the revelation of something thatwas previously unknown (unconscious) may APPEAR to present conflict, simply because of its unfamiliarity.
I think the more people expose themselves deliberately to this discomfort of the unknown in benign ways - bytravelling, doing any art, whatever - the less likely to get stuck in a comfort zone that may actuallyunconsciously promote potential conflict, because inherently resistive to change which is often unknown.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #98 - on: 20.05.2009 at 04:13 [UT+1] »Inanna, first of all, yes it does make sense that you should have ambivalent feelings toward a father that wasboth 'there' and 'not there' for you (and others). I have conflicting feelings for my biological father, and I
entirely accept that that's the way it is. You love them, you hate them, etc. It's all in a lifetime, as Pink Floyd
would say.
I went through very similar emotional turmoil during my recent J transit through the 12th. J is now in the
1st, retrograding to conjunct natal G on the ASC, however, and they mean it when they say you are 'reborn'after J finally and at long last goes over your ASC.
That is one of the reasons why I mentioned J when I began the thread. I sometimes feel like those people
who can see the Thestrels in Harry Potter when I talk about J. If you haven't been through severe andsignificant J transits (and in my case, J has squared or conjuncted every planet in my chart during the courseof my lifetime, and is set to oppose my natal A sometime in the next 10 years or so) I think you just don't get
how profound a difference J transits make in your life.

J forces you to look at the subconscious, unconscious, repressed, suppressed, whatever you want to call it,material that lurks under the surface, that subliminally works on you to cause all your behaviors up on thesurface where you can see them, but only dimly understand them. Through the 12th, it is deceptively quiet (or,it can be) when deep down inside, all the terrible, raw, unformed, chthonic material lurks waiting to be poked
and prodded by outside sources into expression. What fun that transit was, let me tell you.
I behaved like a
4 year old pretty much through the entire experience, but without that experience, I wouldn't be free of all theburied material that had not had a chance to surface.
I'll tell you something, though; I wouldn't trade my J experiences for anything, because if it means I can befree of the garbage I was raised with, the idiotic beliefs my family had, the fears, the weaknesses, all the stuff
that holds you back, then I am very glad to go through each and every J transit. One day, one of 'em's gonnabe the one that lands this hawk, and then I'll be dead, but that's okay too, since that's what's supposed tohappen.

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BasantiMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #99 - on: 20.05.2009 at 04:42 [UT+1] »Quote from SaturnLover on 19.05.2009 at 15:32 [UT+1]:
Quote from Velvet Sphinx on 19.05.2009 at 14:52 [UT+1]:
SaturnLover

Posts: 2872
Gender:Yes, the whole world is our mirror, not just people but also circumstances in our environment play out our complexes for
us. When Pluto squared my natal Moon, water problems kept erupting in my house, showing me how I was overdosing on
my own watery energies (as if I didn't know - I was getting conscious about them!)
I try to go the 'dry' way of my Libra sun and Leo ascendant. But sun has a square to a 12th house Cancer Mars, and Leo
has a square to a Scorpio Neptune in 4th house. So tugged back to water again!
There goes my Pisces Moon, with her self-defeating complaining again. But I really am quite unsure how to get onto solid,
dry ground and escape these watery complexes of mine.

I'm sure someone more watery than me has a better answer for this than I do ... I have a singleton in water, my chart ruler Mercury in
Pisces which is the focus of a t-square, so I have struggled with this somewhat .. the wet way, that is, but being mostly air and fire
perhaps there is just a basic difference on how to handle these things.
One thing I know for sure: when the waters are rough, and there is emotional turmoil, we have two choices: first, we can get swept up in
those waters and possibly drown in so many emotions; second, we can choose to swim away from the rough waters and to seek a calm
stillness, instead. Perhaps both ways are wet ways, but one way is much more peaceful than the other way. Sometimes it doesn't seem
like we have a choice on how to react to our emotions but by practicing mindfulness and awareness we can eventually see that we do havea choice and we can keep choosing the calm, still waters instead of of the tumultuous whirlpool of ever-spinning emotion.
Or maybe I just over-intellectualize my emotional reactions as an Aquarius.

Satlover-i really enjoy your posts....but the advice to have water people swim to shore really made me laughhysterically. I have 2 water I think...ok, when one is swept away in pain, and they let go of control copnsciously(as in a tantric exersize) to let yourself feel, you come out the other side. If you swim away you can nothingfrom the experience except bypassing emotions (fear) or denial (fear). There is nothing wrong with knowing
your knocked into torrents of waves you can't control and letting yourself surrender to its movement. This iswhat a water person learns when the dive in. Its their element, they know it, sometimes there is no choice to
not get swept away, you have to go with the flow once the hurricane comes in. Sometimes water folks (myself
included depending on how much pain there is) just can't help it, they can't swim away, the waves are too
disorienting. I used to surf in Zuma Beach north of LA. I sometimed would get demolished by a wave andturned all over the place. When the water is much larger than yourslef and stronger at the moment its best to
let the water do its thing, look for bubbles and go to the light. But to swim away when the wave is 15 feetaway is a joke.
This last year was a water year for me and I was in a serious hurricane tossed about. Why? Hormonal physicalimbalance prevented any such coping. I say this because physically some people might be imbalanced not in
the brain neccessarily but in hormonal levels. Its really case by case and there is no short cut when you arecaught in a nasty storm.
The rest of me "dry" by the way. But I understand torrents of water and how overwhelming it can be.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #100 - on: 20.05.2009 at 04:55 [UT+1] »Quote from SaturnLover on 19.05.2009 at 18:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from nowhere on 19.05.2009 at 18:17 [UT+1]:
Quote from SaturnLover on 19.05.2009 at 17:36 [UT+1]:
Quote from nowhere on 19.05.2009 at 17:17 [UT+1]:

Posts: 2872
Gender:Just to point out something to keep in mind in this type of discussion, imo Everything is consciousness in some FORM.
The chart shows how these different forms are integrated and what the potential assets,
liabilities and possibilities are for these various forms. Water does not represent
unconsciousness or consciousness any more than fire, it's just a different form of consciousness
with its own highest and lowest expression.
I agree, but I also think that water planets like the moon and Neptune are more associated with thesubconscious or unconscious than fire planets like the sun or Jupiter, although I say that and then realize
Jupiter is also a water planet, as is Mars, so really it doesn't make much sense after all!

That is, what

I'm saying might not make much sense. It was just something I heard of recently and thought fit here inthis discussion.
Air people like me cope by getting away from the turbulent water, I think. Water people may react
differently. Here I am talking about water as representing emotion.

And why is "emotion" not a form of consciousness with a range of expression?
It is, I'm not saying it isn't ... but I thought we were talking about unconscious or subconscious stuff here, not conscious stuff, aren't wetrying to cope with the conflicted subconscious? Can I say that without getting sucked into the semantic vortex that seems to be
overtaking this thread?
Let me try again ... when I think of coping with the unconscious or subconscious, to me that usually mean dealing with feelings I am notaware of on a conscious level. That's just me. Maybe other people always know how they are feeling but I often have to turn to the silence
and meditate to sort out my feelings when I am full of conflicting emotions.
I love Saturn. I must structure my emotions.

BqG I feel like a Vulcan right now.

I'm heavy air but with scorpio rising. I studied right and left tantra for years. Plus rebirthing. If you don't
dive in to the water and swim away you will have conflicting emotions. Those of us who dive in aren't
conflicted by our emotions. We are surrendering to their force at the time to let them out. For me to block theemotions means I'm retaining poison. It gets stuck and my percpetion dulls then I need to meditate to figureout what is happening because I am in avoidance of feeling. Those who like to avoid feeling do a spiritual
bypass and wonder why they feel conflicted. Because they are running away from their feelings to rationalize
them or meditate on them. I know many famous yogis who poopoo the emotions who have so many
subconscious complexes because they fail to do the emotional side of purification. Appearing out of balance
and afraid of what others might think is fear driven, so they meditate their life away bypassing emotions
because it might be "unpleasant". Oh well. The only way you will know deep emotional stuff like a scorpio orcancer is to dive in. Don't swim away, just dive.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #101 - on: 20.05.2009 at 05:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Vivisha on 19.05.2009 at 00:09 [UT+1]:
Sun Kitty
Quote:
Does your mom have Leo in her chart strongly aspected? One thing I have noticied about Leos is they really only like togive gifts or display (really that's what is-a display) when they have an audience. They rarely give generosity in private,

Posts: 2872
Gender:they must be seen by others as being generous. When your mom started handing out photos and you had a better idea
(which it was) she withdrew so called generosity. I've had many a leo pretend they are generous but its always with astring (same with cappies).
i am a Leo and i do not relate to what you say.
Quote:
Also where is yor moms pluto. She sounds so similar to mine. My mom is Taurus Sun, Leo Rising and Pluto sitting 2
degrees from her ascendant. She is one unconscious person if there is any trace of pain or entitlement.
Interesting My mum is a Taurus with an approximated leo rising with Pluto conjunct the asc from the twelfth (i do not have a time of birthfor my mum but i'm pretty sure i have nailed it with a noon time. If i'm off i don't think its by much ).
: Quinn
Quote:
i did read that after bereavement ...whatever projections the deceased was carrying are released back into the unit...whichcauses chaos in the psyches of those left behind...which is made worse if no-one is aware
ah well this is an old pattern of behaviour with my mum so i can't blame the circumstances of my dad's passing. These kinds of things arecalled complexes for a reason.
Quote:
i suspectJ

well despite what i said in my previous post about pluto you could be right. My mum's Pluto conjuncts my sn and her mars conjuncts mypluto. However her saturn also conjuncts my moon so she would be inclined to deny/limit responding to any perceived needs of mine.
Quote:
Vivisha, at one and the same time I want to say, oh honey... god, I've been there, and also, thank you for such an
illuminating example of the precise behavior I'm talking about. It constantly amazes me that parents hang on to one visionof you, stuck permanently affixed in their minds like a butterfly pinned to a board, that one year, when you were 12, youwere unreliable. And then.... you changed. But.... they didn't. Sounds like a fear mechanism for her, too, a response toloss.
yes i would agree there is a fear mechansim there too. But in regard to the loss, she split up with my dad many years ago and had apretty low opinion of him. She was there because i invited her, more for the social than for the ocassion, though i'm sure on some levelshe said her own goodbyes. He was her past after all and at one time thought well enough of him.
Quote:
By the way, your scattering of the ashes in one place... is quite lovely (aside from all the internecine drama). In my

family, my mother carried my father's ashes in a teapot (true story) to about 6 places all overthe globe, scattering him hither and yon. He got scattered in the parking lot of a Home Depot, for god's sake, one of his
favorite hangouts. I kid you not. One of his many destinations
well i love that. I think i followed that story on a previous thread of yours and it made me roar out loudWe scattered Dad's

ashes onto the ocean followed by 12 red roses. I was waiting for a gust of wind to blow the ashes back in our faces and for us all to be
standing there covered in dust ( something which had Dad been able to he would have done just for the impish delight in seeing our horror
Anyway yes it was a beautiful and final goodbye though not without some irreverance. Previous to the scattering there he was in thebar in the urn at our feet amongst the variety of kids he had sired and the ex's he had seduced. Probaby the fist time in a long time hehad been in a bar without a drink.
Quote:
my heart is with you now. I hope you know that.
Thankyou.

Vivisha-i'd clean up these long posts by deleting some of the material but blackberrys are SLOW according to
my gemini hands.
So, when I mention leos give pulically, they are usually not aware of it. My sister who is in total denial of this isleo. She will give a gift publically and then later steal it back. She never gives in private. My ex leo bf did thesame. When I broght it to their attention both were in compelte denial which is what Syzygy was mentioning.
Its the unconscious of Leo, what you can't see or deny. You may have more awareness than the average leo
though considering your writing here intelligently, but most leos I know want public adulation and to be seen
by others as they give. Not one Leo has been generous in private to me. Its always displayed.
I knew my intuition was on about your mom andmy mom being very similar. Thanks for aknowledging that. Its
nice to have intuition confirmed.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #102 - on: 20.05.2009 at 05:27 [UT+1] »I read recently something about shadows and it applies here.
A shadow is created by a light source shining on a dense object. If you have 1 light source you will have a dark

Posts: 2872
Gender:shadow on the other side. The more light shining on the object reduces the shadow. It takes 4 light sources
to disolve the shadow completely.
I thought about this in terms of consciousness. If our 1 light source is our consciousness, that is not enough,that alone creates the shadow. Its the light reflected by those around us that give light to our shadow. Whensomeone shines light on a previously dark area we may hate them for it, but it seems to be the way things
work. Once e become more enlightened from within the dense object the more we can see complexes of others
and the more the subconscious becomes conscious. Holographic universes are round. Consciousness,
subconsciousness and unconsciousness is a flat horizontal paradigm. In hypnotherapy school they did notteach holographic principles, or how to use the reflection of others as parts of yourself to integrate.
It was an interesting thing to ponder for a while and I still do. If you guys can thin of innovative ways to add
more light (besides meditation) I'm looking for analogies, let me know. Seeing things differently allow for
intuition to spark.

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truegem620

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #103 - on: 20.05.2009 at 08:37 [UT+1] »Syzygy,I've been thinking about this question of yours on how we cope with contradictions, mostly because this is alarge question and big theme in my own life. How do you cope?
I guess the way I currently cope with others is much the same as i cope with myself. Respecting these

Posts: 4466
Gender:behaviors as having purpose to the nativity 'scene', and then making my own conscious decision as to whatlevel i am willing to let these contradictions have influence over my own life, depending on the degree of
influence of course.

A lot of hot air, I know.

I create distance and fight the (urge) within my own self to 'help' others see with more clarity out their own
window. Such 'interventions' that might be viewed as imposition; leading only to someone threatened byanother person’s version of their own reality. Kind of subjective isn't it?
In the same turn I find it impossible to keep my mouth shut when I see it(<---maybe the reason for the
distance). Even the small contradictions can build up to a high enough level of annoyance, that there is nosuch thing as holding my tongue. And then I figure if someone didn't want to see(at least a little bit) of theirreality through me, I wouldn't be standing in their reality in the first place.
And here you have a condenced version of some of my own contradiction.
I can't tell you how many times I
have been completely done with people in my life and then contradicted it over and over again.
And with the humble duality of a c I shall bow to the notion that it should take another hundred years before
I outgrow it.
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BasantiMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #104 - on: 20.05.2009 at 08:48 [UT+1] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 20.05.2009 at 08:37 [UT+1]:

Syzygy,I've been thinking about this question of yours on how we cope with contradictions, mostly because this is a large question and big theme
in my own life. How do you cope?

Posts: 2872
Gender:I guess the way I currently cope with others is much the same as i cope with myself. Respecting these behaviors as having purpose to thenativity 'scene', and then making my own conscious decision as to what level i am willing to let these contradictions have influence overmy own life, depending on the degree of influence of course.

A lot of hot air, I know.

I create distance and fight the (urge) within my own self to 'help' others see with more clarity out their own window. Such 'interventions'that might be viewed as imposition; leading only to someone threatened by another person?s version of their own reality. Kind of
subjective isn't it?
In the same turn I find it impossible to keep my mouth shut when I see it(<---maybe the reason for the distance). Even the small
contradictions can build up to a high enough level of annoyance, that there is no such thing as holding my tongue. And then I figure if
someone didn't want to see(at least a little bit) of their reality through me, I wouldn't be standing in their reality in the first place.
And here you have a condenced version of some of my own contradiction.

I can't tell you how many times I have been completely

done with people in my life and then contradicted it over and over again.
And with the humble duality of ac I shall bow to the notion that it should take another hundred years before I outgrow it.

I do this too. Progressed gemini sun, and a natal stellium in gemini. I never get distance though unless I'mcompletely done with them. If I am not done (secretly) I vacilate like you too.
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truegem620

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #105 - on: 20.05.2009 at 09:21 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 19.05.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1]:
If you regard a Job Description as a rationalization ...............you might be on to nothing here?
As to the Bold I can't make much sense of it, can you help me out here?

It appeared to me that you were rationalizing your position on inferiority with a job title.
Posts: 4466
Gender:

For what purpose? Should I re-explain it? Since it was already me that stated what did not make sense to youin the first place, we should not presume to think a second time around would make any difference. I am sure
we can agree on that?
I am not being facetous when I say your job description in no way surprised me. I am sure you are quite
magnetic in your field.

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Charlie Charles

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

2nd« Reply #106 - on: 20.05.2009 at 12:21 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from truegemini62073 on 20.05.2009 at 09:21 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 19.05.2009 at 21:54 [UT+1]:
If you regard a Job Description as a rationalization ...............you might be on to nothing here?
As to the Bold I can't make much sense of it, can you help me out here?

It appeared to me that you were rationalizing your position on inferiority with a job title.
For what purpose? Should I re-explain it? Since it was already me that stated what did not make sense to you in the first place, we should
not presume to think a second time around would make any difference. I am sure we can agree on that?
I am not being facetous when I say your job description in no way surprised me. I am sure you are quite magnetic in your field.

No doubt some 'rationalizations' determine what we do? But I think you might be creating a tenuous narrative
here...............
Magnetic?- I'm not leading a Cult, or have any inclinations to do so. If I did I'd call it the 'Church of CommonSense'
No need to re-explain, but the written word is supposed to convey thoughts not keep them to yourself- mind
you say that to the Latin-American Magic Realists..............
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QuerianMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #107 - on: 20.05.2009 at 13:41 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 19.05.2009 at 23:38 [UT+1]:
I think it's very important not to confuse all emotions with the workings of the subconscious.
Applying this excerpt of a definition from the latest wikipedia link:
The 'subconscious' may also be supposed to contain (thanks to the influence of the psychoanalytic tradition) any number of primitive orotherwise disavowed instincts, urges, desires and thoughts.
This sounds much more

B-related to me; now, B position definitely deals with one's emotions, but these emotions are not always guided
kA SaturnLover
doesn't always know why she does what she does. Now do you??
(Say:

by rational understanding, and even

Posts: 3217
Gender:no, I do not!!)
The point being, the subconscious (a fraught term) exists outside of conscious awareness. Its inner workings, if you will, are not visible toour consciousness, hence the idea lying behind the term, call it what you will. There are "forces," for lack of a better word, that compel us
to behave in mutually exclusive ways, much like Vivisha's mother, whose behavior was a good example of what I'm getting at.
I'm wondering if anyone else has similar examples of that kind of pushme-pullyou behavior. I'll try to come up with one or two if I can.

You are correct, Syz, I don't always know why I do what I do ... but as I work on becoming more grounded andbalanced I do believe that when I feel compelled to act the impetus more often comes from the superconscious
rather than my subconscious, but that's another thread entirely!!!
Sometimes we can't tell what's going on in the subconscious but lucky for us our subconscious sends us signs
through our dreams, through signs, and through our feelings. I don't think all feelings are generated at a
subconscious level but I do believe that sometimes we are angry or frightened or sad and don't understand whyon a conscious level. Feelings can be a great guide to inner peace. When they are out of whack it is time forsome inner work. Or maybe howling at the moon. Whatever suits the situation.
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Querian

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #108 - on: 20.05.2009 at 13:49 [UT+1] »Quote from Sun Kitty on 20.05.2009 at 04:42 [UT+1]:
Quote from SaturnLover on 19.05.2009 at 15:32 [UT+1]:
Quote from Velvet Sphinx on 19.05.2009 at 14:52 [UT+1]:
SaturnLover
Yes, the whole world is our mirror, not just people but also circumstances in our environment play out ourcomplexes for us. When Pluto squared my natal Moon, water problems kept erupting in my house, showing
me how I was overdosing on my own watery energies (as if I didn't know - I was getting conscious about
them!)

Posts: 3217
Gender:I try to go the 'dry' way of my Libra sun and Leo ascendant. But sun has a square to a 12th house Cancer
Mars, and Leo has a square to a Scorpio Neptune in 4th house. So tugged back to water again!
There goes my Pisces Moon, with her self-defeating complaining again. But I really am quite unsure how to
get onto solid, dry ground and escape these watery complexes of mine.

I'm sure someone more watery than me has a better answer for this than I do ... I have a singleton in water, my chart
ruler Mercury in Pisces which is the focus of a t-square, so I have struggled with this somewhat .. the wet way, that is, but
being mostly air and fire perhaps there is just a basic difference on how to handle these things.
One thing I know for sure: when the waters are rough, and there is emotional turmoil, we have two choices: first, we canget swept up in those waters and possibly drown in so many emotions; second, we can choose to swim away from therough waters and to seek a calm stillness, instead. Perhaps both ways are wet ways, but one way is much more peacefulthan the other way. Sometimes it doesn't seem like we have a choice on how to react to our emotions but by practicing
mindfulness and awareness we can eventually see that we do have a choice and we can keep choosing the calm, stillwaters instead of of the tumultuous whirlpool of ever-spinning emotion.
Or maybe I just over-intellectualize my emotional reactions as an Aquarius.

Satlover-i really enjoy your posts....but the advice to have water people swim to shore really made me laugh hysterically. I have 2 water
I think...ok, when one is swept away in pain, and they let go of control copnsciously (as in a tantric exersize) to let yourself feel, youcome out the other side. If you swim away you can nothing from the experience except bypassing emotions (fear) or denial (fear). Thereis nothing wrong with knowing your knocked into torrents of waves you can't control and letting yourself surrender to its movement. This iswhat a water person learns when the dive in. Its their element, they know it, sometimes there is no choice to not get swept away, youhave to go with the flow once the hurricane comes in. Sometimes water folks (myself included depending on how much pain there is) just
can't help it, they can't swim away, the waves are too disorienting. I used to surf in Zuma Beach north of LA. I sometimed would get
demolished by a wave and turned all over the place. When the water is much larger than yourslef and stronger at the moment its best to
let the water do its thing, look for bubbles and go to the light. But to swim away when the wave is 15 feet away is a joke.
This last year was a water year for me and I was in a serious hurricane tossed about. Why? Hormonal physical imbalance prevented any
such coping. I say this because physically some people might be imbalanced not in the brain neccessarily but in hormonal levels. Its reallycase by case and there is no short cut when you are caught in a nasty storm.
The rest of me "dry" by the way. But I understand torrents of water and how overwhelming it can be.

Great post, Sun Kitty. Like I said, someone with more water than I have needs to explain how water people
cope. I can only speak as air and possibly fire. But notice I never once said swim or shore. I think the words
surrender versus struggle more appropriate. But I definitely see what you mean and appreciate our perspective
here.
Have you ever seen someone get themselves all worked up over the most minor of things? That is theturbulence I am talking about here. When a person lets themselves get carried away with their emotional state.
I have done that, many more times than I ever would want to admit, and it was an epiphany for me to realizethat I didn't have to react that way. I could seek calm instead. Sometimes you have to go through very
difficult emotions to reach the calm, like in your surf metaphor, but fighting against the waves, that is exactly
what I was talking about! It's dangerous and gets you nowhere except for a more difficult situation.
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Jeanette

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #109 - on: 20.05.2009 at 14:26 [UT+1] »OK I'm a watery person. How do I cope. When I was a teenager I was swimming a lot - twice a day for twohours and I got up at 5 am to do it because our coach wanted us to lift weights first (crazy I know but this wasat the height of the 'new' human potential movement, our American coach would still tell us that our workout
schedule was 'nothing' compared to what they were doing in the U.S. (this could have been true)) and thenwent to school and then went back to the pool for two hours at night...this experience was not normal, so I feel
I may have missed some of the worst turbulence of the teenage years by staying in my own element.
Throughout twenties realized gradually that most people seemed able to cope with their emotions better than I
could. Most of the time I felt at a complete loss of how I could possibly live a normal life - get a job, keep ajob, be good at a job, manage money, take care of everyday material needs etc...I finally got a job and to myown surprise I managed to keep it, but oh my it was difficult - I used to sit at my desk fighting back the tears
everyday and going to the ladies room to cry - I was crying all the time, in the grocery store line-up, at home,
at work. So finally, I sought therapy and the therpist finally mentioned this new drug called Prozac after a few
years of no progress on coaxing me out of my negativity. So how do I cope...exercise, a healthy diet,meditation, yoga, keeping a journal, a lot of time alone, a long walk every day, and anti-depressants...noalchohol and this forum helps a lot too, because it provides an outlet to express stuff that wouldn't be
acceptable to most people I know.
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judyanne
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #110 - on: 20.05.2009 at 14:37 [UT+1] »I have a watery moon that is often in conflict with my fiery sun. I find that singing is a good way to express
the deep emotion that often wells up inside me.
Also I *must* live near a large body of water. It is absolutely essential to my moods to be in a "wet"environment.

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VivishaEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #111 - on: 20.05.2009 at 15:24 [UT+1] »Quote from Das Stavrou on 19.05.2009 at 14:35 [UT+1]:
Vivisha the repression suppression question though meaningless in the grand scheme of things had my Jupiter in Virgo in cahoots trying todistinguish. Perhaps suppression can be applied externally as well as internally as opposed torepression which for the most part seems to be self inflicted. I dont know.

that works for my virgo moonThinking about conflict and how things rise up from the unconscious you know its not always a bad thing. It iswhere our hidden potentials lay under the surface waiting to be explored. These potentials crave recognition
and without conflict we may never have the opportunity to explore them. Would we really want them to lie
dormant?
I'm also thinking about the twelfth house: the house of self undoing. Our unconscious behaviour can be justthat. If we are negating certain urges within ourselves whether that be to be creative, to commit to a partner
and/or raising a family, to travel for example because we are failing to recognise these neglected drives within
us then conflict may reveal these often forgotten or neglected dreams Conflicts challenge us to face the truthof ourselves, our fears, the choices made, the cost of what we have neglected or left behind. Sometimes
unconscious behavour bursts forth in its raw and unrefined way because its screaming to be recogised andintegrated. It wants you to become conscious of it. It wants expression. These things are only shadows becuase
they have been cast into the darker corners of ourselves. That which is unconscious craves light. Its not aboutlooking for issues to create issues its about saying Hey! something isn't adding up here. Somethings isn't being
recognised and as a result you (or i) are sending out mixed signals. Aspects are key here.

Another thing i don't always want to be calm, centred or whatever. I like turbulence. I don't relate to all thiszen like talk as if a state of perfection can be found in a quiet and peaceful mind. I don't relate to that at all andi don't want to. It would send me stir crazy in fact. Why is a quite and centred state the state to be in exactly? I
work well under stress, i achieve a lot under pressure. Some of my best achievements have been when i havebeen practically pulling my hair out. Its pushed me beyond my limits. Forced me to deal with situations i mightotherwise have avoided? Shown me what i am capable of. Conflicting energy creates spark. The subconscious
kicks your conscious mind up the ass, knocking you right out of that ivory tower so you land on earth with abump. If you are lucky you will hit the ground running. If not you may run around acting irrationally for a whilewhilst observers sit and watch going oooh look at that Gerbil on the wheel again
so what anyway?

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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #112 - on: 20.05.2009 at 15:36 [UT+1] »Vivisha, what you just wrote explains almost exactly a recent problem I've been having with a guy who has
been sending out mixed signals for a very long time (which he will not admit to, since few people are consciousof their own mixed signals). I finally gave up, he gave up, we gave up. My male friends all call him a total
weenie.
But fear is a powerful demotivator, and he is having major transits through the 6th, affecting his
natal CJ conjunction in the 12th, unearthing some very yucky stuff that has lead to illnesses and stress, andoverall negativity that has grown worse. Plus I think we just don't like each other very much.
Ah, that 12th house. What fun.
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Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #113 - on: 20.05.2009 at 15:58 [UT+1] »Yes the beautiful 6th house: the house of crisis: nicely polarised to the twelfth of self undoing. Maybe you just
don't like each other now
Transits move, pressure lifts, things change. Who cares what your male friends
call him? With JmC 12th he doesn't, he's got bigger fish to fry
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Querian

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #114 - on: 20.05.2009 at 16:21 [UT+1] »Sorry to hear that, Syz. Maybe the sun moving into Gemini today will lighten things up for you?
In my experience when dealing with other people's mixed signals all I can do it get clear for myself. I like toturn my worries over to the angels in these situations, and ask Archangel Michael to cut the energy cord
between us with his sword while allowing the angels to take care of the rest. It's the kAD in me ... I focus
on cutting the energy after a break up.
Posts: 3217
Gender:

You deserve a guy who sends you clear signals about his intentions and feelings and also about what awonderful person you are!
I know a lot of Leos who can be very insecure, I have a Leo moon and Virgo rising and Saturn squaring a lot in
my chart and insecurity (as well as low self-esteem) has been one of the things I have worked on transforming
within myself for a very long time. Leos can be the essence of nobility and grace and dramatic gestures, but
the other side of the coin can be self-absorbed and needing the world to appreciate them (since they can't
appreciate themselves, sometimes). Your former guy sounds like his low self-esteem makes it hard for him tocreate a loving relationship ... he probably thinks he doesn't deserve it and thus the mixed signals.
Hugs,
SL

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Querian

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #115 - on: 20.05.2009 at 16:48 [UT+1] »I deleted my quote from you, Syz, since you deleted the post for personal reasons.
Viv, I agree, there's a difference between caring what other people think and recognition... as I Leo moon it isdefinitely the recognition I crave on a deep lunar level, not the approval. I could care less if anyone everapproves of me! But I am also very Aquarian.

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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #116 - on: 20.05.2009 at 16:50 [UT+1] »thank you SaturnLover... you have great sensitivity. After this conversation is done, we can all delete our posts
and it will all seem terribly silly to have done so.

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truegem620

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #117 - on: 20.05.2009 at 17:50 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 20.05.2009 at 12:21 [UT+1]:

No doubt some 'rationalizations' determine what we do? But I think you might be creating a tenuous narrative here...............
Magnetic?- I'm not leading a Cult, or have any inclinations to do so. If I did I'd call it the 'Church of Common-Sense'
No need to re-explain, but the written word is supposed to convey thoughts not keep them to yourself- mind you say that to the LatinAmerican Magic Realists..............

Posts: 4466
Gender:Some people might consider being referred to as magnetic as a compliment, rather then an accusation towards
occult behavior.
If words are meant to convey thoughts, and they fall short of doing so(and on repeat occasions)...there is lessliklihood they will hit their mark a second(or third, or fourth) time around. Why beat a dead horse?

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Charlie Charles
2nd« Reply #118 - on: 20.05.2009 at 18:30 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from truegemini62073 on 20.05.2009 at 17:50 [UT+1]:
Some people might consider being referred to as magnetic as a compliment, rather then an accusation towards occult behavior.
If words are meant to convey thoughts, and they fall short of doing so(and on repeat occasions)...there is less liklihood they will hit theirmark a second(or third, or fourth) time around. Why beat a dead horse?

Talking of occult where has my 12.21 post gone? I spy with my little eye something beginning with ?
But yes why beat a dead horse, why sit an English Literature exam? Let's just speak in tongues
This might interest
you:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Emporium_of_Benevolent_Recognition
Very 'sub' conscious...................
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Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #119 - on: 20.05.2009 at 19:12 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 20.05.2009 at 04:13 [UT+1]:
Inanna, first of all, yes it does make sense that you should have ambivalent feelings toward a father that was both 'there' and 'not there'
for you (and others). I have conflicting feelings for my biological father, and I entirely accept that that's the way it is. You love them, youhate them, etc. It's all in a lifetime, as Pink Floyd would say.

J transit through the 12th. J is now in the 1st, retrograding to conjunctG on the ASC, however, and they mean it when they say you are 'reborn' after J finally and at long last goes over your ASC.

I went through very similar emotional turmoil during my recent
natal

Posts: 6447
Gender:J when I began the thread. I sometimes feel like those people who can see the Thestrels in
J. If you haven't been through severe and significant J transits (and in my case, J has squared or
conjuncted every planet in my chart during the course of my lifetime, and is set to oppose my natal A sometime in the next 10 years orso) I think you just don't get how profound a difference J transits make in your life.
That is one of the reasons why I mentioned
Harry Potter when I talk about

J forces you to look at the subconscious, unconscious, repressed, suppressed, whatever you want to call it, material that lurks under thesurface, that subliminally works on you to cause all your behaviors up on the surface where you can see them, but only dimly understandthem. Through the 12th, it is deceptively quiet (or, it can be) when deep down inside, all the terrible, raw, unformed, chthonic material
lurks waiting to be poked and prodded by outside sources into expression. What fun that transit was, let me tell you.

I behaved like a

4 year old pretty much through the entire experience, but without that experience, I wouldn't be free of all the buried material that had
not had a chance to surface.
I'll tell you something, though; I wouldn't trade my

J experiences for anything, because if it means I can be free of the garbage I wasraised with, the idiotic beliefs my family had, the fears, the weaknesses, all the stuff that holds you back, then I am very glad to go
through each and every

J transit. One day, one of 'em's gonna be the one that lands this hawk, and then I'll be dead, but that's okay

too, since that's what's supposed to happen.

Yep, Pluto plays a heavy place for me-tsquare with Sun o Pluto/Chiron. The major unravelling started for me
10 years ago when Pluto opposed Sun, then squared Pluto...and onto the mid life crisis. I moved away at mySaturn return when Saturn, Neptune, Uranus were on my ASC-it was an abrupt crazy move-literally yanked up
from my roots. But not until Pluto entered the 12th did I really flip-it opposed Mercury then (Mercury is myfinal dispositor). Talking about a true Gemini discovering their Jeckle and Hyde. The sad thing is now I am
looking back the last 10 years with guilt and remorse/my father has changed alot in the last 10 years/he did try
to reach out to me but I was too angry-but he very gently kept pushing-he was very gentle when I was young
too and he went through his rage years as well-hence our separation. It's now reached a peaceful shore but somuch time has passed. I am in a very public position and I can't seem to hold back tears in the last week
Its hormonal too. My dad has a growing bubble on his aorta in his abdomen/Triple A disease. It could burst
anytime-he needs to have surgery-he is 77 so its risky.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #120 - on: 20.05.2009 at 19:34 [UT+1] »Inanna.... please do what you need to do, but here's what happened for me: I got into a separation mode withmy dad, and then six months passed, and he became more and more sick. I was on vacation 3 states awaywhen I got calls from all the family telling me he was in the hospital. Received varying messages, no one knew
for sure what was going on, but he was not doing well at all (this was after years of heart problems, stents put
in, etc.; we had a joke about how he was perpetually dying). Turns out he was actually dying and the doctors
were giving mixed messages to my mother and relatives about this. I thought I had time to get back home,and go out to see him. No. I had no time, and he died, and I.... had to live with the aftermath. He was 80 when
he died. He died 4 days before my birthday, 2005.
afterwards, I was not the person who went into the initial separation mode, and realised a lot of things I hadn't
known before. But, in the long run, it was all okay, because we had said everything we needed to say. The
aftermath was about loss and pain and guilt---but it's gonna be about those things anyway, no matter what
happens when.
you do what you must. your parents do what they must. it's what happens.

and then you learn.

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #121 - on: 20.05.2009 at 19:39 [UT+1] »The most contradictory, impossible, ridiculous person I've ever known was cAnlB. She would do things
like blame others for her actions, call others the things she was, and had the ability to twist anything to makeherself look like a victim. She would find a reason to complain about literally anything, then dwell on it. I didn't
Posts: 62
Gender:know her through choice, haha
I think AnB is a tricky aspect, because they have an inner conflict through their wants and ego and needs andsubconscious. Of course it can be managed harmoniously through better communication, and the person I
knew was...something...I wasn't at all surprised when I read her chart, there were 6 square/opposition aspects!

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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #122 - on: 20.05.2009 at 20:01 [UT+1] »truegemini, I just caught your post... don't you have some oppositions, too, as I recall? That's where we got
started with this conversation, with Das's oppositions, which I think are part of what encompass these inherent
contradictions within the self.
You say you give up on others and then reverse direction... now what would cause you to do that?
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Lissa

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #123 - on: 20.05.2009 at 21:12 [UT+1] »I actually consider myself to be quite self aware and even when someone accuses me of being something that I
don't think I am,I take the time to ponder over their words and reflect on my behaviour.I have a lA conjunctan early aB,plus aC and D,I think my a planets keep me very well grounded which is good.
I also have a B-C conjunction,which I believe is also helpful in seeing myself clearly.
Most confused people I've seen are usually l,the less evolved expression of Pisces(and,unfortunately,I happen
to encounter that a lot),like to accuse others of their own faults and blame them for their mistakes.Less evolved
expressions of d tend to do this a lot too.Most aware signs are usually a.
Posts: 2202
Gender:Rowan,I too know a girl with AcolB and she is quite the fake type,plus tends to complain a lot and has a
hard time seeing herself clearly.ABp or ABn are very tricky aspects to manage when it comes to selfawareness.

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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #124 - on: 20.05.2009 at 21:32 [UT+1] »Lissa, I have a very strong feeling you're going to have to explain a number of things you just said, that is, if
anyone other than me reads that post.

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Lissa

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #125 - on: 20.05.2009 at 21:37 [UT+1] »Hmmm...What do you want me to explain?I will do my best...sometimes it's hard for me to write in english
when I'm a bit tired.

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Ed Falis
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #126 - on: 20.05.2009 at 22:09 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 19.05.2009 at 23:38 [UT+1]:
Quote from Ed Falis on 19.05.2009 at 18:30 [UT+1]:
In my view, it's not the categories we put things in - the contents of our thoughts - so much as what we can observe about
how thoughts behave, regardless of contents. And then it's a matter of how we herd them cats - or not: working stance.

Well it's not clear to me how we can observe anything about how thoughts can behave regardless of contents?
However my inferred gist of your 'stance' is we adopt a position where the cats (hither and thither) think it's in their interest where youwant them to go. But these 'cats' will inevitably relate to different 'working stances' so I wonder whose strategy, is more effective in thelong run.

Well, we're getting to the point of stretching my gerbil metaphor beyond its intent. Of course, thoughts andrelated emotional energy and beliefs could be gerbils or cats or bears or lions or whales or whatever. They
(thoughts) behave according to their natures and their circumstances, mostly regardless of what they happen
to have in their bellies (thought contents). My personal observation is that it's very easy to get caught up in
the belly contents, somehow resulting in more animals running around, often more frantically, and mostly
habitually. Because it's easy to identify ourselves with the animals, rather than realizing that they're a productof ourselves interacting with our environments. There is an awareness that has all those animals runningaround inside it. The "stance" I sugggested is to relate to that awareness and not let the animals tow you
around. My additional experience is that they tend to settle down a bit when you're not corraling them andsuch because you've taken a stance of not over-focusing on them and their contents.
- Ed
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Quinn

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #127 - on: 20.05.2009 at 22:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 20.05.2009 at 21:32 [UT+1]:
Lissa, I have a very strong feeling you're going to have to explain a number of things you just said, that is, if anyone other than mereads that post.

i thought it was just me...i was sat reading with my eyebrows raised so high they disappeared into my hairline
hi lissa
most people don't associate a with being grounded ( i have my moon there so no judgements against a fromme)i have also read(often) that BC makes it harder to see oneself learly as they can't gain enough distance fromfeelings to be objective to think clearly
I can't really comment on anything else
apart from i actually agree that a can be very aware especially if they listen to their instincts
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Lissa
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #128 - on: 20.05.2009 at 22:19 [UT+1] »OK...I will try to explain myself
In my personal experience with Arian,they are usually very honest about themselves...I have a (once very
close)Arian friend who,when accused of being selfish,or possessive,or envious,she would go like:"Selfish??Me??
Yes,what's your problem?"My God,I loved her for that!My aBAE dad is like that too-"I may be the most hotheaded person in the family but I keep you all in place!"
As for my Moon/Mercury conjunction,yes,I've heard about it.But I have it trine my Jupiter and sextile
Saturn...and I am a more evolved version of the Moon/Mercury conjunction...and don't you dare disagreeing
with me!!!
Posts: 2202
Gender:But I was speaking mostly from my personal experience...I really feel like Aries,even in it's less evolved forms,is
one the most self aware signs.At least they know they're hard to get along with as hell-and they seem to be Ok
with it!!

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Quinn

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #129 - on: 20.05.2009 at 22:40 [UT+1] »i agree with what you say about a it is a very refreshing sign at times....and i have to say i usually know what
i'm feeling at any given moment...self aware yes... I'm always telling others they should always honour the self
first and anything left can go to others
it doesn't sit well in the new age circles that say others should always
come first
but i tell you something if i see an accident...whether its a car crash or an old lady falling over I'm straight inthere no thinking involved...at 8 months pregnant with my first child i saw an 70yr old woman stumble and istill caught her before she hit the ground...no thought to myself whatsoever
i think that is generally misunderstood about a they can be really self-less but only when the need of the otheris greater than the self..which in reality doesn't happen that often
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #130 - on: 20.05.2009 at 22:40 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 20.05.2009 at 20:01 [UT+1]:
truegemini, I just caught your post... don't you have some oppositions, too, as I recall? That's where we got started with thisconversation, with Das's oppositions, which I think are part of what encompass these inherent contradictions within the self.

"My only regret is that I have but one opposition to give to my country"

EnJ
Posts: 4466
Gender:Though I do actually have others.
)

eACnkB andF, aNngO, jKnAmG and S K(Not m), andGnM(

Quote:You say you give up on others and then reverse direction... now what would cause you to do that?

I think I could write a book on the many complex reasons why I do that.
I could write it on mirror paper and insist that no other person is complete without it.
I wouldn't underestimate the o and its ability to 'show up' as apparent contradiction.
What role do you think the nodes play in this push and pull motion of life?

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Basanti

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #131 - on: 20.05.2009 at 22:42 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 20.05.2009 at 20:01 [UT+1]:
truegemini, I just caught your post... don't you have some oppositions, too, as I recall? That's where we got started with thisconversation, with Das's oppositions, which I think are part of what encompass these inherent contradictions within the self.
You say you give up on others and then reverse direction... now what would cause you to do that?

Posts: 2872
Gender:I don't know if gemini influences manifest the same as sun/moon polarity or polarities, but from how astro
reads my chart I have only 1 opposition. My neptune opp moon. But when it comes to all my gemini, I canhave 2 feelings at once and not be conflicted about it. That's gemini. When we vacilate we are trying to betrue to both feelings at the same time. We really are awar of both where as I think in oppositions most aren'tthat aware.
I could be wrong....
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dog8818
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #132 - on: 20.05.2009 at 22:52 [UT+1] »Quote from Lissa on 20.05.2009 at 22:19 [UT+1]:
OK...I will try to explain myself
In my personal experience with Arian,they are usually very honest about themselves...I have a (once very close)Arian friend who,whenaccused of being selfish,or possessive,or envious,she would go like:"Selfish??Me??Yes,what's your problem?"My God,I loved her for that!My

aBAE dad is like that too-"I may be the most hot headed person in the family but I keep you all in place!"
As for my Moon/Mercury conjunction,yes,I've heard about it.But I have it trine my Jupiter and sextile Saturn...and I am a more evolved
version of the Moon/Mercury conjunction...and don't you dare disagreeing with me!!!
But I was speaking mostly from my personal experience...I really feel like Aries,even in it's less evolved forms,is one the most self aware
signs.At least they know they're hard to get along with as hell-and they seem to be Ok with it!!

Posts: 2645
Gender:Ummm, so are you saying that someone who is a pissant who is "honest" about being a pissant is a "higher
evolved" person? I think I want to come back as a next life, then! I'd love the ability to say what I think andnot give a damn what anyone else thinks, be selfish and wonder what people's "problem" was.... and still get tobelieve I'm highly evolved...
oh wait, isn't that just self-importance? Which wouldn't be an a trait at all, oh no.....
And most a I know DO believe they are very grounded, and it doesn't matter if there are bodies lying there on
the ground that they're stepping all over, because SOMEONE has to know what action to take, and pity the
person who gets in the way!

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~ Kent ~Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #133 - on: 20.05.2009 at 23:01 [UT+1] »Just a tad bit of animosity for a.
I think someone showed you all the dark sides of a in one fell swoop.
_____________
I have no a In fact a lot of g.
I wanted to see all the Aa in my files.
Charlie Chaplin
Edie Sedgwick (factory girl)
Robert Doisneau
Maya Angelou
Marlon Brando
Robert Downey Jr
Aretha Franklin
Billie Holliday
Erica Jong
Gregory Peck
Omar Sharif
Stephen Sondheim
Tennessee Williams
Warren Beatty
Jerry Brown
Francis Ford Coppola
Eugene McCarthy
Gloria Steinem
Sarah Vaughan
Bob WoodwardPeter Ustinov
Michael York
Pixie Vixen
William WordsworthCharles Baudelaire
Erich Fromm
Emile Zola
Nancy Pelosi
Vincent Van Gogh
Al GoreJoel Grey
Dane Rudhyar
Andrew Lloyd Weber
Heath Ledger
Howard Sasportas
James Hillman
Washington Irving
Eric Clapton
Herbert von Karajan
William Holden
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Charlie Charles
2nd« Reply #134 - on: 20.05.2009 at 23:13 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Sun Kitty on 20.05.2009 at 22:42 [UT+1]:
I don't know if gemini influences manifest the same as sun/moon polarity or polarities, but from how astro reads my chart I have only 1
opposition. My neptune opp moon. But when it comes to all my gemini, I can have 2 feelings at once and not be conflicted about it. That's
gemini. When we vacilate we are trying to be true to both feelings at the same time. We really are awar of both where as I think in
oppositions most aren't that aware.
I could be wrong....

Ideally Gemini should be comfortable having 2 'conflicting' thoughts (not a feeling sign), when it only has one
it might start to be uncomfortable. If Gemini doesn't own this 'oppositeness and contrariness' it's shadow (the'side' it can't reconcile with) will be projected on to someone else. Take the ambiguity out of life and a Gemini
might get a bit bored.
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dog8818

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #135 - on: 20.05.2009 at 23:14 [UT+1] »oh, ok, I guess you could call it "animosity", but I call it "reality". I lived with a man with an Ba, I called it
the "everything's a FIRE!!" moon. It was very funny to watch unless it was me that was on fire and I was the
body on the ground.
I have a lot of respect for a because of the innate leadership abilities; I just have a smidge of a problem withthe "entitlement" that may come with the hero's mantle.

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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #136 - on: 20.05.2009 at 23:17 [UT+1] »Well, it has to be said that many things Lissa mentioned in her post came as news to me.
For one thing, the trine from A to B... I'm not sure why anyone would interpret that as not being grounded?
That's precisely what it does give you, usually, so you'd have to show me some examples of that not operatingin that way, but I suspect we'd see other factors at work.
Now, a as an entire sign is far too broad to reference casually, but no, it's not known for patience, for one
thing. Of course there are always mitigating factors, and different people have different abilities, but I thinksome very broad statements were made, Lissa, and although I understand about the language barrier, it's notreally the language barrier that's the issue, I suspect.
Try again.

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Quinn

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #137 - on: 20.05.2009 at 23:21 [UT+1] »well myaB generally is grounded...knee deep in washing (laundry) and other chores..
it is me that keeps this house calm and chaos free because i don't actually like drama in the home(and i'm ae)
my hubby does joke about the fact that if he's in my way i walk through him not around him but i put that
down to Eb as there is a definite charging action to it but then he does stand in my way deliberately to
provoke(red rag to a bull)
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #138 - on: 20.05.2009 at 23:23 [UT+1] »Quote from Sun Kitty on 20.05.2009 at 08:48 [UT+1]:

I do this too. Progressed gemini sun, and a natal stellium in gemini. I never get distance though unless I'm completely done with them. If
I am not done (secretly) I vacilate like you too.

Well i have kB; distance is sometimes my middle name. . . except gee, it's in the 7th house!
Hows thatfor contradiciton? And to add a layer to that, I'm dD to boot, in the 11th.
Somebody was laughing theirPosts: 4466
Gender:ass off in the sky that day.

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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #139 - on: 20.05.2009 at 23:23 [UT+1] »Quinn, is that a trine from the A to the B?
Also, a Eb is going to be much more grounded and well-behaved than a B and E in a, unless they areawfully well-aspected.
Not addressed to you, Quinn, but perhaps it's mostly a matter of personal values (one's D placement) that
determines how you'd see your own propensity for being evolved, and the general, overall evolution of thosearound you.
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QuinnEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #140 - on: 20.05.2009 at 23:42 [UT+1] »yep it is a trine, have a strong esun in 9th only 6 deg from mc
a 18 deg and b at 2 deg so i don't see them as being in aspect,they are in different houses too the sun is at
25 degrees so E trines by sign to the sun too
the "only" conflict i get with my B is through the kids...
a few days ago my youngest had something in her ear and had to go to the hospital..they couldn't get it out(she's 2 and went hysterical)and they told me she has to have a general anaesthetic to get it out(in a week orso)... they might as well have told me she needed major surgery for what it did to my insides... that particular
day TR E was sat right on my NN which is only 2 degrees away from my moon and both sit in the 5th
being nO it took a huge amount of effort on my part to not react to my insides...it did stop my appetite andafter i went to bed i did get upset.... so minor incidents will trigger major internal reactions but i know it's notjust down to theBa it took years to realise and control that one...and i still can't stop it from happening but i
don't act (N)it out anymore
my D is badly afflicted inf 29 deg mJg2 deg bothoGd1 deg
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truegem620

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #141 - on: 21.05.2009 at 00:09 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 20.05.2009 at 18:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 20.05.2009 at 17:50 [UT+1]:
Some people might consider being referred to as magnetic as a compliment, rather then an accusation towards occult
behavior.
If words are meant to convey thoughts, and they fall short of doing so(and on repeat occasions)...there is less liklihood
they will hit their mark a second(or third, or fourth) time around. Why beat a dead horse?

Posts: 4466
Gender:Talking of occult where has my 12.21 post gone? I spy with my little eye something beginning with ?
But yes why beat a dead horse, why sit an English Literature exam? Let's just speak in tongues
This might interest you:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Emporium_of_Benevolent_Recognition
Very 'sub' conscious...................

More voodoo, this reply appeared out of nowhere...it was not here earlier?
Are you offering to tutor me with exams?
As far the list goes, where is O-Z?

I was just getting warmed into it.

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DaydreamSheep
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #142 - on: 21.05.2009 at 00:14 [UT+1] »Hmm a are self-centered, but not necessarily selfish!
The main conflict I have in my chart is the t-square involving bE (9th house) nhJ (3rd house) okF (6thhouse). To solve it, I often focus on developing the issues of my e 12th house. But to solve any conflicts of
opposite energies, balance would be the key. In my case, I'm often finding balance between having firm beliefs
and the need to have a flexible, "obsessively seeking for the truth" mind.
Somehow, I'm still trying to understand the nature of the conflicts generated by squares. I have AoI, but I
Posts: 205
Gender:still can't understand well how does it manifest, let alone how to solve it. ^_~; But well, maybe with t JmI
and oA I will be able to get a better picture soon (I'm starting to feel some kind of "cleaning" already, but still
can't understand it well).
Anyone want to shed some lights about the nature of square conflicts for this sheep here?

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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #143 - on: 21.05.2009 at 00:50 [UT+1] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 00:09 [UT+1]:

More voodoo, this reply appeared out of nowhere...it was not here earlier?
Are you offering to tutor me with exams?
As far the list goes, where is O-Z? I was just getting warmed into it.

This 'categories' list has been known to send philosophers into orgasm. Does it mean anything?, you mightneed a brain the size of Jupiter to work it out. My 'understanding' is maybe/maybe not...........
o-z might be included already, see j and hExams - want do you want to learn?.............no Chemistry, Physics or Mongolian history circa 235-987CE. As
regards anything else I know less than nothing, which is 'something'.............maybe!

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AstroSun*
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #144 - on: 21.05.2009 at 00:53 [UT+1] »Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious –The first step would be to become ‘consciously’ aware of the habits, patterns and cycles going on‘subconsciously’.
The second step is to understand these ‘subconscious’ cycles of how they function and -from where they might
have stemmed if possible-.
Posts: 403

The third step is to realize how to change these ‘subconscious’ cycles into healthier ways of functioning.

These three steps will help in relating with others, minimizing unhealthy ‘subconscious’ cycles.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #145 - on: 21.05.2009 at 01:21 [UT+1] »I would say that that is precisely what a good many people, here and off the forum, are in the process of
doing....

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Charlie Charles

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

2nd« Reply #146 - on: 21.05.2009 at 01:29 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Syzygy on 21.05.2009 at 01:21 [UT+1]:
I would say that that is precisely what a good many people, here and off the forum, are in the process of doing....

No psychologists or psychological astrologers, or wikipedia contributors! Let's not forget this...............
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truegem620

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #147 - on: 21.05.2009 at 02:03 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 00:50 [UT+1]:

This 'categories' list has been known to send philosophers into orgasm. Does it mean anything?, you might need a brain the sizeof Jupiter to work it out. My 'understanding' is maybe/maybe not...........

That's meaning enough for me. The 'cause' to question that is, not the resulting orgasm.
Posts: 4466
Gender:Quote:
o-z might be included already, see j and h

I see your point, though I suspect the author realized it would take the rest of the alphabet to fill in the ncategory.
Quote:
Exams - want do you want to learn?.............no Chemistry, Physics or Mongolian history circa 235-987CE. As regards anything else I

know less than nothing, which is 'something'.............maybe!

I think that will remain a riddle... at least until they find the missing part of that list.
You aren't asking me if I want to want to learn are you?

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Charlie Charles
2nd

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #148 - on: 21.05.2009 at 02:30 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote:
You aren't asking me if I want to want to learn are you?

If you are a TRUE GEMINI you are going to want to Learn, unless your goal is to be the most unauthentic
Gemini on the planet and move it to another place in the Zodiac. So my presumptuousness has an astrologicallogic..........
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truegem620

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #149 - on: 21.05.2009 at 03:33 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 02:30 [UT+1]:
Quote:
You aren't asking me if I want to want to learn are you?

If you are a TRUE GEMINI you are going to want to Learn, unless your goal is to be the most unauthentic Gemini on the planet and moveit to another place in the Zodiac. So my presumptuousness has an astrological logic..........

Posts: 4466
Gender:A truegemini at her peak(29º) sitting on the lap of Saturn...would be unwise to question 'learning' as if she
actually had a choice in the matter.

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Charlie Charles

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

2nd« Reply #150 - on: 21.05.2009 at 03:52 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 03:33 [UT+1]:
A truegemini at her peak(29º) sitting on the lap of Saturn...would be unwise to question 'learning' as if she actually had a choice in thematter.

Essay 1/ -Write 37 words on: 'When you look at my face I look back at both of yours', and try and avoid goingof on a tangent(s).
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dog8818

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #151 - on: 21.05.2009 at 05:14 [UT+1] »Quote from AstroSun* on 21.05.2009 at 00:53 [UT+1]:

Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious –The first step would be to become ‘consciously’ aware of the habits, patterns and cycles going on‘subconsciously’.
The second step is to understand these ‘subconscious’ cycles of how they function and -from where
they might have stemmed if possible-.

Posts: 2645

The third step is to realize how to change these ‘subconscious’ cycles into healthier ways offunctioning.

Gender:

These three steps will help in relating with others, minimizing unhealthy ‘subconscious’ cycles.

oh and it's *precisely* that easy....???
The fourth step would be "realize you are about to commit another subconscious behavior faux pas,
compulsively do it anyway, experience remorse and resolve to do better next time....
The fifth step would be to commit another subconscious behavior faux pas in full awareness but not yet able tomuster up courage to try it the "healthy way", suffer remorse, resolve to do better next time....
The sixth step.....
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #152 - on: 21.05.2009 at 06:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 03:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 03:33 [UT+1]:
A truegemini at her peak(29º) sitting on the lap of Saturn...would be unwise to question 'learning' as if she actually had achoice in the matter.

Essay 1/ -Write 37 words on: 'When you look at my face I look back at both of yours', and try and avoid going of on a tangent(s).

Posts: 4466
Gender:I wonder, is your topic supposed to be riddled with astrological logic?
Or are you asking me to write a 37 word essay on Sybil?

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veda sastra

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #153 - on: 21.05.2009 at 07:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 02:30 [UT+1]:
Quote:
You aren't asking me if I want to want to learn are you?

If you are a TRUE GEMINI you are going to want to Learn, unless your goal is to be the most unauthentic Gemini on the planet and moveit to another place in the Zodiac. So my presumptuousness has an astrological logic..........

a bit of the sidereal affectation there CC2 ,I can see it embeded in your subconcsious

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AstroSun*
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #154 - on: 21.05.2009 at 10:03 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 21.05.2009 at 01:21 [UT+1]:
I would say that that is precisely what a good many people, here and off the forum, are in the process of doing....

A work-in-progress. . . Once J goes direct again in September, it should help move about the psychologicalPosts: 403

heaviness out of the bog into lighter waters
a few more just because they are much needed rightnow
Aren't these the best???

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AstroSun*

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #155 - on: 21.05.2009 at 10:18 [UT+1] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 06:13 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 03:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 03:33 [UT+1]:
A truegemini at her peak(29º) sitting on the lap of Saturn...would be unwise to question 'learning' as if she
actually had a choice in the matter.

Posts: 403

Essay 1/ -Write 37 words on: 'When you look at my face I look back at both of yours', and try and avoid going of on atangent(s).

I wonder, is your topic supposed to be riddled with astrological logic?
Or are you asking me to write a 37 word essay on Sybil?

I'd like to write a 37 word essay on Truegemini62073's pic~ it's pretty nice!

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Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #156 - on: 21.05.2009 at 10:21 [UT+1] »Quote from dog8818 on 21.05.2009 at 05:14 [UT+1]:
Quote from AstroSun* on 21.05.2009 at 00:53 [UT+1]:

Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious –The first step would be to become ‘consciously’ aware of the habits, patterns and cycles
going on ‘subconsciously’.
Posts: 403

The second step is to understand these ‘subconscious’ cycles of how they function and from where they might have stemmed if possible-.
The third step is to realize how to change these ‘subconscious’ cycles into healthierways of functioning.

These three steps will help in relating with others, minimizing unhealthy ‘subconscious’
cycles.

oh and it's *precisely* that easy....???
The fourth step would be "realize you are about to commit another subconscious behavior faux pas, compulsively do it anyway, experience
remorse and resolve to do better next time....
The fifth step would be to commit another subconscious behavior faux pas in full awareness but not yet able to muster up courage to try it
the "healthy way", suffer remorse, resolve to do better next time....
The sixth step.....

I usually line up the steps with my ruler Step one

Step two

Step three

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Lissa

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #157 - on: 21.05.2009 at 10:54 [UT+1] »Sorry if I made myself misunderstood.I really think that being completely honest and open about your negative
traits is a wonderful thing,and the upmost expression of evolvement from my point of view.We all have ourflaws,but not all signs are as open and clear about them as a are.And,like Quinn said,a are pretty able to put
their needs aside and run to the rescue when it is needed.

a is a very misunderstood sign in the Aquarian era,where people put in their minds that they must put others
first and everyone who has a tad bit of self-assertion is seen as a prick.What people often forget is that true
altruism is a rather complicated thing that comes from the heart and soul and takes a lot of personal
evolvement to get there;when you give a lot but haven't had the change to mature your own self you end up
Posts: 2202
Gender:caught in the type of fake generosity,where you do things for others and expect to get something in return,andcomplain a lot that you give and give and no one cares to give back.Around the astrological community it
seems to me that a are often seen as very unevolved spiritually,where I have found,from personal
experience,that the higher expression of the sign is the most beautiful of all the zodiacopen,honest,blunt,generous and brave.a is the hero for some reason.
It is true that a are self centered but,as someone else said,self centeredness does not equal selfishness.Thereis actually a quote on the Astrologyweekly site that states that self-centeredness is a necessity for self
development.In times of crisis,a are actually the most selfless of all signs;oh yes,they go about the challenge
in their own way and probably don't care if you have another,probably more effective plan,but they do whatever
it takes to make sure everyone gets home safe and worry about their needs later.
I know that most of the things I am saying come from personal experience,as I have always been surroundedby the most evolved expressions of a,and I am sad that it hasn't been like this for most people because atruly is a wonderful sign and,if you're lucky enough to get know some evolved arian individuals,trust me,you've
been amazingly blessed by the heavens,for they are loyal,generous,giving,enthusiastic and so sincere it isrefreshing.(And yes,I know I am quite partial when it comes to a,as I have an aBCD myself)Sadly,I haven't
had many oportunities to come in contact with the higher expression of the water signs in my real life(in forum
life I think I have found a few),and these encounters constantly remind me that I need to struggle not to getbogged down in the lower expression of my lA.
I have an aABE dad and he is the most amazing person I have ever met.Yes,he is very hard to get alongwith and at times things between us get pretty heated up but,as he himself stresses,we all run to him in timesof crisis because he always knows what to do.And he's been known to be rather strong-headed and unable tosee things from our points of view but even when he argues with us,he wants us to act in a certain way because
he sincerely believes that,if we do what he tells,we will be better off,more satisfied and happier.Of course,heneeds to learn that what works for him isn't what works for everybody else but truth is his intentions are always
pure,and he has no problem admiting he can be quite hard to get along with at times and that's one of thethings I love about him.
Phew....hope I explained myself clearly this time.
And so here goes my song of devotion for arians...

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #158 - on: 21.05.2009 at 11:12 [UT+1] »I just wen back to my 1st post and there was a little typo...

I mean to say AoB is a tricky one,not ApB!

Sorry

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veda sastra

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #159 - on: 21.05.2009 at 11:47 [UT+1] »Quote from Lissa on 21.05.2009 at 10:54 [UT+1]:
Sorry if I made myself misunderstood.I really think that being completely honest and open about your negative traits is a wonderfulthing,and the upmost expression of evolvement from my point of view.We all have our flaws,but not all signs are as open and clear about
them asa are.And,like Quinn said,a are pretty able to put their needs aside and run to the rescue when it is needed.

a is a very misunderstood sign in the Aquarian era,where people put in their minds that they must put others first and everyone who hasa tad bit of self-assertion is seen as a prick.What people often forget is that true altruism is a rather complicated thing that comes fromthe heart and soul and takes a lot of personal evolvement to get there;when you give a lot but haven't had the change to mature yourown self you end up caught in the type of fake generosity,where you do things for others and expect to get something in return,andcomplain a lot that you give and give and no one cares to give back.Around the astrological community it seems to me thata are often

seen as very unevolved spiritually,where I have found,from personal experience,that the higher expression of the sign is the mostbeautiful of all the zodiac-open,honest,blunt,generous and brave.

Posts: 1391
Gender:a is the hero for some reason.

a

It is true thatare self centered but,as someone else said,self centeredness does not equal selfishness.There is actually a quote on the
Astrologyweekly site that states that self-centeredness is a necessity for self development.In times of crisis,
are actually the mostaselfless of all signs;oh yes,they go about the challenge in their own way and probably don't care if you have another,probably more
effective plan,but they do whatever it takes to make sure everyone gets home safe and worry about their needs later.
I know that most of the things I am saying come from personal experience,as I have always been surrounded by the most evolved
expressions ofa,and I am sad that it hasn't been like this for most people because a truly is a wonderful sign and,if you're lucky enoughto get know some evolved arian individuals,trust me,you've been amazingly blessed by the heavens,for they area,as I have an
aBCD myself)Sadly,I haven't had many oportunities to come in contact with the higher expression of the water signs in my real life(inloyal,generous,giving,enthusiastic and so sincere it is refreshing.(And yes,I know I am quite partial when it comes toforum life I think I have found a few),and these encounters constantly remind me that I need to struggle not to get bogged down in thelower expression of myI have anlA.

aABE dad and he is the most amazing person I have ever met.Yes,he is very hard to get along with and at times things

between us get pretty heated up but,as he himself stresses,we all run to him in times of crisis because he always knows what to do.And
he's been known to be rather strong-headed and unable to see things from our points of view but even when he argues with us,he wants
us to act in a certain way because he sincerely believes that,if we do what he tells,we will be better off,more satisfied and happier.Of
course,he needs to learn that what works for him isn't what works for everybody else but truth is his intentions are always pure,and he has
no problem admiting he can be quite hard to get along with at times and that's one of the things I love about him.
Phew....hope I explained myself clearly this time.
And so here goes my song of devotion for arians...

The sign you describe ,from every day personal observation,is the sidereal Pisces
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Charlie Charles

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

2nd« Reply #160 - on: 21.05.2009 at 13:30 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 06:13 [UT+1]:
I wonder, is your topic supposed to be riddled with astrological logic?
Or are you asking me to write a 37 word essay on Sybil?

The first, but if you want to attack it with Sybil then good luck.
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Charlie Charles 2nd

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #161 - on: 21.05.2009 at 13:56 [UT+1] »Quote from guruplanet on 21.05.2009 at 07:00 [UT+1]:
a bit of the sidereal affectation there CC2 ,I can see it embeded in your subconcsious

Seeing as you are still using the term ''subconscious'' we can deduce that when I say Gemini would have to be
not the 3rd sign it's not a surprise to see you thought I might be saying something else!

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

truegem620
Member« Reply #162 - on: 21.05.2009 at 18:07 [UT+1] »Quote from AstroSun* on 21.05.2009 at 10:18 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 06:13 [UT+1]:
Or are you asking me to write a 37 word essay on Sybil?

I'd like to write a 37 word essay on Truegemini62073's pic

Posts: 4466
Gender:~ it's pretty nice!

Well be thankful I noticed my typo and *edited- otherwise you would be obligating yourself to a 37 page
essay!
Of course I wouldn't be editing for spelling and grammar.
I have to say, your pic and your words touch my e mask in the most righteous way.

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truegem620

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #163 - on: 21.05.2009 at 18:12 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 13:30 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 06:13 [UT+1]:
I wonder, is your topic supposed to be riddled with astrological logic?
Or are you asking me to write a 37 word essay on Sybil?

The first, but if you want to attack it with Sybil then good luck.
Posts: 4466
Gender:

So...I am getting the idea that you want me to write a 37 word psychological assessment of myself in essay
format? I thought you were trying to prevent psychobabble?

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Charlie Charles
2nd

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #164 - on: 21.05.2009 at 18:29 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 18:12 [UT+1]:.
So...I am getting the idea that you want me to write a 37 word psychological assessment of myself in essay format? I thought you were
trying to prevent psychobabble?

Good point, I'm giving you a B+.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #165 - on: 21.05.2009 at 20:34 [UT+1] »Quote from nowhere on 20.05.2009 at 04:08 [UT+1]:
Hi _Inanna_,
You bring up a very good point in this discussion - that being that quite often, the revelation of something that was previously unknown(unconscious) may APPEAR to present conflict, simply because of its unfamiliarity.
I think the more people expose themselves deliberately to this discomfort of the unknown in benign ways - by travelling, doing any art,
whatever - the less likely to get stuck in a comfort zone that may actually unconsciously promote potential conflict, because inherently

Posts: 6447

resistive to change which is often unknown.

Gender:Yes, this is true. By me moving 3,000 miles away from home (comfort zone) and going on my own-no support
system truly made me have to dig into survival mode and thus,open up channels and grow quickly-many
evolutions for me. Whereas my family and friends who remained with their roots seemed to be the same/notmuch growth-hard for me to relate to. You do tend to get closer to yourself and your inner guide(subconscious) as I see it when you have no one else to depend on but yourself. "comfortably numb" is theterm to describe staying with what feels safe (home) what many term as home. Without any crutches or leanposts (which can be addictions for many). Mine was smoking-I also smoked some pot regularly for years-no
addiction but it did numb my emotions. When I stopped that it did make me address emotions more clearly as
well.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

SyzygyEx Member« Reply #166 - on: 21.05.2009 at 22:47 [UT+1] »Thank you for explaining all of that, Lissa... yes, the typo makes a huge difference, doesn't it??
your little monkey avatar is adorable, by the way.
Now, it seems to me, with that description of the "best of Aries," that we are missing the conflicted part, tosome extent. Your dad, yes, I can see the inner conflict (but then, he does sound like all dads everywhere,
pretty much!)
What would you say a's inner conflict might look like?
I know for me, if I had to specify an inner conflict that plagues me, it is this division between G/j andA/d... they're not in opposition (technically) in my chart, because they're too far apart by degree. But theimpetus of each is most definitely pulling me in two opposite directions, leading, for example, to enmity anddisorder in my personal versus professional life. What you seem to end up with, with oppositions in your chart,
are compromises and compromised behaviors, where I never give either world enough time or energy, because
I cannot devote or focus my time or energy, and I am extremely conflicted about both. I am sure some of thatconflict comes from my un/sub/conscious... when you consistently shoot yourself in the foot, you probably
don't want whatever it is you say you want. Hence: I am ruled by monsters from the Id.
But I don't know if anyone else feels that way.
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MissteryMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #167 - on: 21.05.2009 at 23:22 [UT+1] »Ok. Cappie getting serious now
Talking about this to my therapist this week.
Posts: 535
Gender:Aj - an obviously innate need for control, structure andboundaries. I am never happier than when organising and controlling a situation and making everything
happen exactly the way I think it should.
Square Moon mI. The complete antithesis of the capricorn needs. A Libran moon conjunct Neptune withboundaries? Fat chance!! My emotions are like a sponge soaking up every ounce of energy in the atmospherearound me.
I know what moods people are in before they even open their mouths and what they expect of me, and thelibran eagerness to please overrules any j control mechanism. This much I am aware of and trying to learn
how to 'deal'with the conflict.
Now.. Throw in Uranus and Jupiter opposite to Sun and Square to Moon Neptune. These two little beauties arein the 8th and I have absolutely no idea how they influence me other than that the OF oB has manifested asa life long battle with mood swings which affect me and others around me (obviously) and then kicks the
Neptune into action and I want to escape from the turmoil of the inner conflict of wanting to be Stable Aj,
Sensitive, Charming and Pleasing Bg Oh and a bit of a rebel, but that could be the AoB as much as theAnO, in the nicest possible way of course, as the Libran Moon never wants to upset anybody.
Coping with the subconscious? Love to. Any hints gratefully received and I'll share them with therapist nextweek
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #168 - on: 22.05.2009 at 00:22 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 18:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 18:12 [UT+1]:.
So...I am getting the idea that you want me to write a 37 word psychological assessment of myself in essay format? I
thought you were trying to prevent psychobabble?

Good point, I'm giving you a B+.

Posts: 4466
Gender:This is most generous(and appropriate) as you 'close' with the benevolence of F
I give you a solid A

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Das Stavrou

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Ex Member« Reply #169 - on: 22.05.2009 at 00:36 [UT+1] »Quote from Jently on 21.05.2009 at 23:22 [UT+1]:
Ok. Cappie getting serious now
Talking about this to my therapist this week.

Aj - an obviously innate need for control, structure and boundaries. I am never happierthan when organising and controlling a situation and making everything happen exactly the way I think it should.
Square MoonmI

. The complete antithesis of the capricorn needs. A Libran moon conjunct Neptune with boundaries? Fat chance!! My

emotions are like a sponge soaking up every ounce of energy in the atmosphere around me.
I know what moods people are in before they even open their mouths and what they expect of me, and the libran eagerness toplease overrules any j control mechanism. This much I am aware of and trying to learn how to 'deal'with the conflict.
Now.. Throw in Uranus and Jupiter opposite to Sun and Square to Moon Neptune. These two little beauties are in the 8th and I haveabsolutely no idea how they influence me other than that thehas manifested as a life long battle with mood swings which affectOF oB

me and others around me (obviously) and then kicks the Neptune into action and I want to escape from the turmoil of the inner

Aj, Sensitive, Charming and Pleasing Bg Oh and a bit of a rebel, but that could be the AoB as much
AnO, in the nicest possible way of course, as the Libran Moon never wants to upset anybody.

conflict of wanting to be Stable
as theCoping with the subconscious? Love to. Any hints gratefully received and I'll share them with therapist next week
JentlyI'd say they're working right, these alignments seem to be designed to help you help work with that Libra
moon as opposed to have it work against you. When Libra energy is worked upon, understood for it is, ittransforms from the lower expression of wanting to please others for sense of self, to wanting to do what is'right'. Perhaps you sense it for instance when what is required from you from other people 'rings dissonant?'
Tell those who expect things from you that expectation is the father of disappointment *S* -Back to top

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #170 - on: 22.05.2009 at 00:47 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 20.05.2009 at 19:34 [UT+1]:
Inanna.... please do what you need to do, but here's what happened for me: I got into a separation mode with my dad, and then six
months passed, and he became more and more sick. I was on vacation 3 states away when I got calls from all the family telling me he
was in the hospital. Received varying messages, no one knew for sure what was going on, but he was not doing well at all (this was after
years of heart problems, stents put in, etc.; we had a joke about how he was perpetually dying). Turns out he was actually dying and thedoctors were giving mixed messages to my mother and relatives about this. I thought I had time to get back home, and go out to see
him. No. I had no time, and he died, and I.... had to live with the aftermath. He was 80 when he died. He died 4 days before mybirthday, 2005.

Posts: 6447
Gender:afterwards, I was not the person who went into the initial separation mode, and realised a lot of things I hadn't known before. But, in thelong run, it was all okay, because we had said everything we needed to say. The aftermath was about loss and pain and guilt---but it's
gonna be about those things anyway, no matter what happens when.
you do what you must. your parents do what they must. it's what happens.

and then you learn.

Thank you...you never know how you will feel or react until it happens
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #171 - on: 22.05.2009 at 03:26 [UT+1] »Jently, I think what you've said is very important, and maybe we should discuss it more and take a look at it(she said with 5 planets in the 8th...). Das asked at one point... does she (meaning me) have the sameneed to understand... the answer is, yes, I do!
If you feel like you don't understand what's happening with some of those 8th house planets, for example, andmaybe the oppositions, give us an example of some things you do or don't do (that you feel comfortablediscussing, of course). Let's see what we can figure out... help the therapist along...
Have you put up your chart anywhere? Maybe you could put it up here and we could take a look at it.
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*Abraxas*
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #172 - on: 22.05.2009 at 03:43 [UT+1] »Quote from Sun Kitty on 20.05.2009 at 08:48 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 20.05.2009 at 08:37 [UT+1]:

Syzygy,I've been thinking about this question of yours on how we cope with contradictions, mostly because this is a large question
and big theme in my own life. How do you cope?
I guess the way I currently cope with others is much the same as i cope with myself. Respecting these behaviors as having

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purpose to the nativity 'scene', and then making my own conscious decision as to what level i am willing to let these

Gender:contradictions have influence over my own life, depending on the degree of influence of course.

A lot of hot air, Iknow.
I create distance and fight the (urge) within my own self to 'help' others see with more clarity out their own window. Such'interventions' that might be viewed as imposition; leading only to someone threatened by another person?s version of
their own reality. Kind of subjective isn't it?
In the same turn I find it impossible to keep my mouth shut when I see it(<---maybe the reason for the distance). Eventhe small contradictions can build up to a high enough level of annoyance, that there is no such thing as holding mytongue. And then I figure if someone didn't want to see(at least a little bit) of their reality through me, I wouldn't bestanding in their reality in the first place.
And here you have a condenced version of some of my own contradiction.

I can't tell you how many times I have been

completely done with people in my life and then contradicted it over and over again.
And with the humble duality of ac I shall bow to the notion that it should take another hundred years before I outgrow it.

I do this too. Progressed gemini sun, and a natal stellium in gemini. I never get distance though unless I'm completely done with them. If
I am not done (secretly) I vacilate like you too.

Vacillation is Gemini's middle name
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #173 - on: 22.05.2009 at 03:47 [UT+1] »Quote from Quinn on 19.05.2009 at 21:20 [UT+1]:
i agree with you jeanette,generally the ones who enjoy lurking in the dungeons have emphasis on 8th/

J/hDungeons can be interesting
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #174 - on: 22.05.2009 at 03:53 [UT+1] »Quote from Jeanette on 20.05.2009 at 14:26 [UT+1]:
OK I'm a watery person. How do I cope. When I was a teenager I was swimming a lot - twice a day for two hours and I got up at 5 am to
do it because our coach wanted us to lift weights first (crazy I know but this was at the height of the 'new' human potential movement,
our American coach would still tell us that our workout schedule was 'nothing' compared to what they were doing in the U.S. (this could
have been true)) and then went to school and then went back to the pool for two hours at night...this experience was not normal, so I feel
I may have missed some of the worst turbulence of the teenage years by staying in my own element.
Throughout twenties realized gradually that most people seemed able to cope with their emotions better than I could. Most of the time I
felt at a complete loss of how I could possibly live a normal life - get a job, keep a job, be good at a job, manage money, take care of

Posts: 6447
Gender:everyday material needs etc...I finally got a job and to my own surprise I managed to keep it, but oh my it was difficult - I used to sit at
my desk fighting back the tears everyday and going to the ladies room to cry - I was crying all the time, in the grocery store line-up, athome, at work. So finally, I sought therapy and the therpist finally mentioned this new drug called Prozac after a few years of no progresson coaxing me out of my negativity. So how do I cope...exercise, a healthy diet, meditation, yoga, keeping a journal, a lot of time alone,a long walk every day, and anti-depressants...no alchohol and this forum helps a lot too, because it provides an outlet to express stuff
that wouldn't be acceptable to most people I know.

This is an interesting perspective on a water dominated person.
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*Abraxas*

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #175 - on: 22.05.2009 at 03:57 [UT+1] »Quote from AstroSun* on 21.05.2009 at 10:18 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 06:13 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 03:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 03:33 [UT+1]:
A truegemini at her peak(29º) sitting on the lap of Saturn...would be unwise to question'learning' as if she actually had a choice in the matter.

Posts: 6447
Gender:Essay 1/ -Write 37 words on: 'When you look at my face I look back at both of yours', and try and avoid
going of on a tangent(s).

I wonder, is your topic supposed to be riddled with astrological logic?
Or are you asking me to write a 37 word essay on Sybil?

I'd like to write a 37 word essay on Truegemini62073's pic~ it's pretty nice!

I was wondering what drink/cocktail/concoction she was enjoying in said red cup...

Cheers to Gemini andenjoying a true refreshment...
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Pisces63

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Ex Member« Reply #176 - on: 22.05.2009 at 04:13 [UT+1] »Quote from Lissa on 21.05.2009 at 10:54 [UT+1]:
Sorry if I made myself misunderstood.I really think that being completely honest and open about your negative traits is a wonderfulthing,and the upmost expression of evolvement from my point of view.We all have our flaws,but not all signs are as open and clear about
them asare.And,like Quinn said,
are pretty able to put their needs aside and run to the rescue when it is needed.

aa

I am beginning to wonder at 46 years of age being SO open and expressive is a good thing. Reading non-astro
book (The Dance of Connection) right now, talks about each person's method and strength of expression isdifferent. Expressing too much too soon can often backfire. I believe expressing less as you age calls in
discernment. Does the person opposite you deserve your trust? The phrase, time will tell comes to mind. Not
everyone finds solace in revealing the personal.
Expression and communication can be misinterpreted! Then, of course, with expression comes intimacy -read: if you trust the person!
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #177 - on: 22.05.2009 at 04:20 [UT+1] »The conflicted subconscious will "make you" say things you wish you'd never said.

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Pisces63

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Ex Member« Reply #178 - on: 22.05.2009 at 04:33 [UT+1] »-whew- yes, Ms. Syz
Darn weeds of the subconscious

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truegem620

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #179 - on: 22.05.2009 at 04:37 [UT+1] »Quote from _Inanna_ on 22.05.2009 at 03:57 [UT+1]:
Quote from AstroSun* on 21.05.2009 at 10:18 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 06:13 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 21.05.2009 at 03:52 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 21.05.2009 at 03:33 [UT+1]:
A truegemini at her peak(29º) sitting on the lap of Saturn...would be unwise toquestion 'learning' as if she actually had a choice in the matter.

Posts: 4466
Gender:Essay 1/ -Write 37 words on: 'When you look at my face I look back at both of yours', and try
and avoid going of on a tangent(s).

I wonder, is your topic supposed to be riddled with astrological logic?
Or are you asking me to write a 37 word essay on Sybil?

I'd like to write a 37 word essay on Truegemini62073's pic~ it's pretty nice!

I was wondering what drink/cocktail/concoction she was enjoying in said red cup...

Cheers to Gemini and enjoying a true

refreshment...

Three Cheers

for peace and quiet.

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Pisces63

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Ex Member« Reply #180 - on: 22.05.2009 at 05:10 [UT+1] »You're so magnetic bab-ee!

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MissteryMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #181 - on: 22.05.2009 at 23:23 [UT+1] »Quote from Das Stavrou on 22.05.2009 at 00:36 [UT+1]:

I'd say they're working right, these alignments seem to be designed to help you help work with that Libra moon as opposed to have it

Posts: 535
Gender:work against you. When Libra energy is worked upon, understood for it is, it transforms from the lower expression of wanting to please
others for sense of self, to wanting to do what is 'right'. Perhaps you sense it for instance when what is required from you from otherpeople 'rings dissonant?' Tell those who expect things from you that expectation is the father of disappointment *S* --Had to think about this long and hard Das. Why do I want to please? Because it is 'right'? Right for whom I
am wondering.
I am feeling as I type this that it is a fear of others disapproval, which speaks to me of j/G need forrespectability. I am using this word loosely there is probably another more apt but I am tired and can't think
how to describe it better.
Anyway I morph into whichever situation I happen to be in at any given time. If i'm with professionals I appear
to be their intellectual equal. If i'm with the bin man I talk in the same accent and manner as he does. So I
think I probably have a lot more work to do on using the libran energy positively, as it seems from what I haveconcluded from thinking about your reply is that I am using it for selfish acceptance rather than any desire to
do 'what is right'
Oh s**t. But that is completely contradictory because that Cappie A is constantly brow beating me into doing
the 'right thing'.
Oh well. Back to the therapeutic drawing board
Thanks for the reply

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MissteryMember

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #182 - on: 22.05.2009 at 23:48 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 22.05.2009 at 03:26 [UT+1]:
Jently, I think what you've said is very important, and maybe we should discuss it more and take a look at it (she said with 5 planets in
the 8th...)Posts: 535
Gender:. Das asked at one point... does she (meaning me) have the same need to understand... the answer is, yes, I do!

If you feel like you don't understand what's happening with some of those 8th house planets, for example, and maybe the oppositions,give us an example of some things you do or don't do (that you feel comfortable discussing, of course). Let's see what we can figureout... help the therapist along...
Have you put up your chart anywhere? Maybe you could put it up here and we could take a look at it.

Syzygy5 planets in the 8th? Wow!! Love to know how you work with those.

My two F and O are completely lost to me. Freedom, Independence. What are they?
I hate travel. Never been independent in my life. I don't really have any idea of the meaning of what these twostand for.
The A and B energies seem to be available but never together, always at different times and meaning thesacrifice of either emotion or sense of self. I think maybe the conjunction of Sun and Chiron influences this. I
genuinely don't feel that I deserve anything. Self esteem flat on the floor. But I don't want this to turn into an
essay revolving around self pity or 'victimhood'. It's just the way it is.
My partner gets mad because I can find reasons for most behaviour/negativity, dare I say that dreaded word'sin' in others, but am completely unable to excuse anything less than perfect behaviour at all times to all
people by myself.
Sorry Syzygy. So tired right now not able to come up with any more, but will put my chart up if you'd like totake a look.
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #183 - on: 22.05.2009 at 23:53 [UT+1] »First question i have for people who claim to have no self-esteem is, you're living with someone--or married.
Now, it takes a fair amount of self-esteem to do that... so is something different for you now than it was when
you met? Because one's primary relationship can add to, and oftentimes detract from, one's self-esteem, but at
the same time, you need a fair amount of self-esteem in place to make yourself available and attractive enoughto someone else... so there's a dichotomy there.
Secondly, you've got a number of issues holding you back, it looks like. Have you looked at G/12th prior tothis? Have you been on any of those G/12th threads that come up around here on occasion?
We can talk about my 8th house and the 8th house in general later on...
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Das Stavrou
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #184 - on: 23.05.2009 at 00:32 [UT+1] »Quote from Jently on 22.05.2009 at 23:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from Das Stavrou on 22.05.2009 at 00:36 [UT+1]:

I'd say they're working right, these alignments seem to be designed to help you help work with that Libra moon as
opposed to have it work against you. When Libra energy is worked upon, understood for it is, it transforms from the lower
expression of wanting to please others for sense of self, to wanting to do what is 'right'. Perhaps you sense it for instancewhen what is required from you from other people 'rings dissonant?' Tell those who expect things from you that expectationis the father of disappointment *S* --Had to think about this long and hard Das. Why do I want to please? Because it is 'right'? Right for whom I am wondering.
I am feeling as I type this that it is a fear of others disapproval, which speaks to me of/need for respectability. I am using this wordjG

loosely there is probably another more apt but I am tired and can't think how to describe it better.
Anyway I morph into whichever situation I happen to be in at any given time. If i'm with professionals I appear to be their intellectual
equal. If i'm with the bin man I talk in the same accent and manner as he does. So I think I probably have a lot more work to do on using
the libran energy positively, as it seems from what I have concluded from thinking about your reply is that I am using it for selfish
acceptance rather than any desire to do 'what is right'
Oh s**t. But that is completely contradictory because that Cappie

A is constantly brow beating me into doing the 'right thing'.

Oh well. Back to the therapeutic drawing board
Thanks for the reply Jently

Yes, you're pretty much there already in terms of your thinking. No need for that therapeutic drawing board per
se. But our subconscious/unconscious often has to catch up with our conscious minds. We understandsomething but we can't live it till it's hard wired for us. I mentioned the Libran polarity as i felt this is where it's
coming from.
Go deeper regarding others disapproval. Why fear of others disapproval?, peel back another layer to that. Could
it be that you are disapproving on a subconscious/unconscious level of yourself and thus expect the same
response in others leading to a mimicry since they seem to accept those things in themselves?

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Misstery

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Member« Reply #185 - on: 23.05.2009 at 21:49 [UT+1] »Quote from Syzygy on 22.05.2009 at 23:53 [UT+1]:
First question i have for people who claim to have no self-esteem is, you're living with someone--or married. Now, it takes a fair amountof self-esteem to do that... so is something different for you now than it was when you met? Because one's primary relationship can add
to, and oftentimes detract from, one's self-esteem, but at the same time, you need a fair amount of self-esteem in place to makeyourself available and attractive enough to someone else... so there's a dichotomy there.

Posts: 535
Gender:Secondly, you've got a number of issues holding you back, it looks like. Have you looked atof those/12th threads that come up around here on occasion?

G/12th prior to this? Have you been on any

G

We can talk about my 8th house and the 8th house in general later on...

No I'm not living with anybody (other than my sister and her husband) my partner lives hundreds of miles
away. We were planning to move back in together in 2 weeks. Supposed to be signing contracts for the houseon Friday.
Good old C retrograde. Or is it Good old Stella? She squares my Asc/Desc and opposes J chart ruler.
Anyway this recovering alcoholic partner of mine decided today to start drinking again. So I now have nopartner.
Can't talk lucidly about anything else at the moment i'm afraid. Absolutely shocked and gutted
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #186 - on: 23.05.2009 at 22:19 [UT+1] »oh boy....
if you ever need to talk, please feel free to PM me. xx
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Penguin Trauma

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #187 - on: 23.05.2009 at 22:21 [UT+1] »Jeez.... I was going to comment on this thread, something about my Pisces vs my Sagittarius, la la, but I got
distracted....
Charlie Charles and Truegemini - please, for the love of God, get a room!!!
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LisaluEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #188 - on: 23.05.2009 at 22:36 [UT+1] »Quote from Pisces63 on 22.05.2009 at 04:13 [UT+1]:
Quote from Lissa on 21.05.2009 at 10:54 [UT+1]:
Sorry if I made myself misunderstood.I really think that being completely honest and open about your negative traits is awonderful thing,and the upmost expression of evolvement from my point of view.We all have our flaws,but not all signs
are as open and clear about them as
rescue when it is needed.

a are.And,like Quinn said,a are pretty able to put their needs aside and run to the

I am beginning to wonder at 46 years of age being SO open and expressive is a good thing. Reading non-astro book (The Dance ofConnection) right now, talks about each person's method and strength of expression is different. Expressing too much too soon can often
backfire. I believe expressing less as you age calls in discernment. Does the person opposite you deserve your trust? The phrase, time willtell comes to mind. Not everyone finds solace in revealing the personal.
Expression and communication can be misinterpreted! Then, of course, with expression comes intimacy -- read: if you trust the person!
LanetteIve come to that conclusion too Lanette. Being honest and upfront has caused me a lot of trouble over the
past few years
Weeds of the subconscious or whatever...
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truegem620

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #189 - on: 23.05.2009 at 23:14 [UT+1] »Quote from Penguin Trauma on 23.05.2009 at 22:21 [UT+1]:
Jeez.... I was going to comment on this thread, something about my Pisces vs my Sagittarius, la la, but I got distracted....
Charlie Charles and Truegemini - please, for the love of God, get a room!!!

That is so funny you should say that! I kid you not i had thought to tell CC that we needed to stop
before someone told us to get a room!
Posts: 4466
Gender:Too funny. Terribly sorry about the diversion, please carry on.

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truegem620
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #190 - on: 24.05.2009 at 00:03 [UT+1] »Oh, I forgot to add:

Posts: 4466
Gender:Back to top
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Charlie Charles 2nd

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #191 - on: 24.05.2009 at 00:16 [UT+1] »Quote from Penguin Trauma on 23.05.2009 at 22:21 [UT+1]:

Charlie Charles and Truegemini - please, for the love of God, get a room!!!

I was only a B+.
Although i knew this girl at college who was a bit 'two planks of wood' but ended up with a 1st and a few
eyebrows were raised when recalling a few arm in arms and soft caresses with certain lec (tur / her) urs...........
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truegem620
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #192 - on: 24.05.2009 at 21:09 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 24.05.2009 at 00:16 [UT+1]:
Quote from Penguin Trauma on 23.05.2009 at 22:21 [UT+1]:

Charlie Charles and Truegemini - please, for the love of God, get a room!!!

I was only a B+.

Posts: 4466
Gender:Although i knew this girl at college who was a bit 'two planks of wood' but ended up with a 1st and a few eyebrows were raised whenrecalling a few arm in arms and soft caresses with certain lec (tur / her) urs...........

No, not a bit cryptic at all.
Do you have any idea how many meanings one could deduce from this kind of subjective jargon?
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Charlie Charles 2nd

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #193 - on: 24.05.2009 at 21:51 [UT+1] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 24.05.2009 at 21:09 [UT+1]:
No, not a bit cryptic at all.
Do you have any idea how many meanings one could deduce from this kind of subjective jargon?

If you want to progress in academia make sure you can feign a fetish in corduroy elbow patches when a marker
pen is thrust between your open tome................that's all, you are over-analyzing again!
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #194 - on: 24.05.2009 at 23:00 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 24.05.2009 at 21:51 [UT+1]:
If you want to progress in academia make sure you can feign a fetish in corduroy elbow patches when a marker pen is thrust between youropen tome

Quote:
Posts: 4466................that's all, you are over-analyzing again!

Gender:Again? Not always?
When a statement is not substantial, there is an implication that there is hidden(subjective) meaning
attached...implying that analysis is not only warranted but also has been solicited by said stater.
And how am I to look at such a statement objectively, without first analyzing all the potentials of enforced
subjectivity?
And when one seeks to speak in tongues, I am going to assume this is an attempt to disguise their language.

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Charlie Charles 2nd

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #195 - on: 24.05.2009 at 23:40 [UT+1] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 24.05.2009 at 23:00 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 24.05.2009 at 21:51 [UT+1]:
If you want to progress in academia make sure you can feign a fetish in corduroy elbow patches when a marker pen isthrust between your open tome

Quote:................that's all, you are over-analyzing again!

Again? Not always?
When a statement is not substantial, there is an implication that there is hidden(subjective) meaning attached...implying that analysis is
not only warranted but also has been solicited by said stater.
And how am I to look at such a statement objectively, without first analyzing all the potentials of enforced subjectivity?
And when one seeks to speak in tongues, I am going to assume this is an attempt to disguise their language.

Or you could just chuckle and go off and make a cup of tea like a 'healthy' person would............one sugar,
strong and a lot of milk!
and 47 Chocolate Biscuits - Milk not Plain, lets not be stupid!
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truegem620
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #196 - on: 25.05.2009 at 00:08 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 24.05.2009 at 23:40 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 24.05.2009 at 23:00 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 24.05.2009 at 21:51 [UT+1]:................that's all, you are over-analyzing again!
Again? Not always?
...you could just chuckle and go off and make a cup of tea like a 'healthy' person would............one sugar, strong and a lot of milk!

Posts: 4466
Gender:and 47 Chocolate Biscuits - Milk not Plain, lets not be stupid!

Ah, sweet filler, animal fat, and mood altering substance... these are much healthier alternatives.
Both are forms of over-indulgence I should think, so we are even. No grades today, it would simply serve toshow up as an act of righteousness.
We've slaughtered this thread, there is no room left for anything other then stupidity.
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Jeanette

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #197 - on: 25.05.2009 at 00:34 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 24.05.2009 at 21:51 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 24.05.2009 at 21:09 [UT+1]:
No, not a bit cryptic at all.
Do you have any idea how many meanings one could deduce from this kind of subjective jargon?

If you want to progress in academia make sure you can feign a fetish in corduroy elbow patches when a marker pen is thrust between youropen tome................that's all, you are over-analyzing again!

I'm not who I thought I was.
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Penguin Trauma
Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #198 - on: 25.05.2009 at 00:40 [UT+1] »OMG you guys crack me up!!
And yep, I think this thread has died a cruel but weirdly amusing death, I'd better say no more in case theMods shut this down
and also get some delicious choccy biscuits and tea in the process...

Anyways, in a probably feeble attempt to steer it back somehow - conflicting consciousness, I would say my
Pisces ACD introversion and my Sagittairus BASCI fieriness are always at odds with each other, they makesome pretty hefty squares. The l in me longs for quiet seclusion and a need for withdrawal from the world andis happy being 'invisible', yet my i is longing to get out there, meet everybody and absolutely hates being
ignored!
I think the word's for the song 'Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely)' by Pink sum it up - go away, come back, go away,
come back...
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Jeanette

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #199 - on: 25.05.2009 at 00:45 [UT+1] »and now I'm so punchy...I just went back to the main Forum page and saw "My sister knocked her teeth out."
and it cracked me up completely... I am helpless with laughter...I'll go check transits.

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Charlie Charles

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

2nd« Reply #200 - on: 25.05.2009 at 00:46 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from truegemini62073 on 25.05.2009 at 00:08 [UT+1]:
Ah, sweet filler, animal fat, and mood altering substance... these are much healthier alternatives.
Both are forms of over-indulgence I should think, so we are even. No grades today, it would simply serve to show up as an act ofrighteousness.
We've slaughtered this thread, there is no room left for anything other then stupidity.

You're doing it again taking my crunchy yearnings apart, just dunk them in the tea and stuff them in yourmouth - Moon in cancer isn't it, looking at them won't change anything as long as you have checked in the
supermarket they are milk.
Grades going down to a C- today, that B+ really was a bit previous............
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Penguin Trauma

Ex Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #201 - on: 25.05.2009 at 00:56 [UT+1] »Quote from Jeanette on 25.05.2009 at 00:45 [UT+1]:
and now I'm so punchy...I just went back to the main Forum page and saw "My sister knocked her teeth out." and it cracked me upcompletely... I am helpless with laughter...I'll go check transits.

No please stop..... had a mouthful of Pepsi Max which is now all over the keyboard!
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truegem620
Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #202 - on: 25.05.2009 at 01:01 [UT+1] »Quote from Jeanette on 25.05.2009 at 00:45 [UT+1]:
and now I'm so punchy...I just went back to the main Forum page and saw "My sister knocked her teeth out." and it cracked me upcompletely... I am helpless with laughter...I'll go check transits.

...something wicked in the air?

Posts: 4466
Gender:Back to top
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truegem620

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #203 - on: 25.05.2009 at 01:29 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 25.05.2009 at 00:46 [UT+1]:

You're doing it again taking my crunchy yearnings apart, just dunk them in the tea and stuff them in your mouth - Moon in cancer isn't it,
looking at them won't change anything as long as you have checked in the supermarket they are milk.
Grades going down to a C- today, that B+ really was a bit previous............

Posts: 4466
Gender:O3rd/ it's only natural I should rebel from grades on the weekend. Besides I heard a rumor I was trying to get
all the way to 'F'??
Drink all the milk you want, but I might warn you it's only going to produce more of that excess phlegm in theback of your throat.
Moon in Cancer- not quite.(?)

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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Charlie Charles
2nd« Reply #204 - on: 25.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from truegemini62073 on 25.05.2009 at 01:29 [UT+1]:

O3rd/ it's only natural I should rebel from grades on the weekend. Besides I heard a rumor I was trying to get all the way to 'F'??
Drink all the milk you want, but I might warn you it's only going to produce more of that excess phlegm in the back of your throat.
Moon in Cancer- not quite.(?)

Enuff
Phlegmatic is one of the humors - and it relates (a bit contentiously) to water
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism
so moon in cancer is bang on
down to a dquit whilst you are behind, then the only way is up or down
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truegem620

Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #205 - on: 25.05.2009 at 02:22 [UT+1] »Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 25.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 25.05.2009 at 01:29 [UT+1]:

O3rd/ it's only natural I should rebel from grades on the weekend. Besides I heard a rumor I was trying to get all the way
to 'F'??
Drink all the milk you want, but I might warn you it's only going to produce more of that excess phlegm in the back ofyour throat.

Posts: 4466
Gender:Moon in Cancer- not quite.(?)

Enuff
Phlegmatic is one of the humors - and it relates (a bit contentiously) to water
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism
so moon in cancer is bang on
down to a dquit whilst you are behind, then the only way is up or down

When is Tmoon in cancer? Not quite yet?
Excess phlegm leads to congestion, I was simply warning you not to over indulge at this time on milky
substance.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #206 - on: 26.05.2009 at 00:14 [UT+1] »Quote from truegemini62073 on 25.05.2009 at 02:22 [UT+1]:
Quote from Charlie Charles 2nd on 25.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1]:
Quote from truegemini62073 on 25.05.2009 at 01:29 [UT+1]:

O3rd/ it's only natural I should rebel from grades on the weekend. Besides I heard a rumor I was trying to
get all the way to 'F'??
Drink all the milk you want, but I might warn you it's only going to produce more of that excess phlegm inPosts: 6447
Gender:the back of your throat.
Moon in Cancer- not quite.(?)

Enuff
Phlegmatic is one of the humors - and it relates (a bit contentiously) to water
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism
so moon in cancer is bang on
down to a dquit whilst you are behind, then the only way is up or down

When is Tmoon in cancer? Not quite yet?
Excess phlegm leads to congestion, I was simply warning you not to over indulge at this time on milky substance.

I am a very interested to the response to this one..."the F in Gemini mind facking certainly spinning here
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SyzygyEx Member

Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #207 - on: 26.05.2009 at 00:16 [UT+1] »My unconflicted subconscious has disavowed all knowledge or interest in this thread. If it ever comes backonline, I'll take an interest again, but it is lost, subsumed in ego, and has no point or purpose now.
Enjoy yourselves.
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious

Charlie Charles
2nd« Reply #208 - on: 26.05.2009 at 00:50 [UT+1] »Ex Member

Quote from Syzygy on 26.05.2009 at 00:16 [UT+1]:
My unconflicted subconscious has disavowed all knowledge or interest in this thread. If it ever comes back online, I'll take an interest
again, but it is lost, subsumed in ego, and has no point or purpose now.
Enjoy yourselves.

So page 11 you are still using the word 'subconscious' so can you learn anything, did you last more than thefirst morning at school and how would you delineate this?
Ego - how are you defining this?
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Re: Coping with the (conflicted) subconscious« Reply #209 - on: 31.05.2009 at 01:42 [UT+1] »Quote from Jently on 21.05.2009 at 23:22 [UT+1]:
Ok. Cappie getting serious now
Talking about this to my therapist this week.

Aj - an obviously innate need for control, structure and boundaries. I am never happierthan when organising and controlling a situation and making everything happen exactly the way I think it should.
Square MoonmI

. The complete antithesis of the capricorn needs. A Libran moon conjunct Neptune with boundaries? Fat chance!! My

emotions are like a sponge soaking up every ounce of energy in the atmosphere around me.
I know what moods people are in before they even open their mouths and what they expect of me, and the libran eagerness to please
overrules any

j control mechanism. This much I am aware of and trying to learn how to 'deal'with the conflict.

Now.. Throw in Uranus and Jupiter opposite to Sun and Square to Moon Neptune. These two little beauties are in the 8th and I haveabsolutely no idea how they influence me other than that thehas manifested as a life long battle with mood swings which affectOF oB

me and others around me (obviously

Posts: 1094
Gender:Aj) and then kicks the Neptune into action and I want to escape from the turmoil of the innerBg

conflict of wanting to be Stable, Sensitive, Charming and Pleasing
Oh and a bit of a rebel, but that could be theas the, in the nicest possible way of course, as the Libran Moon never wants to upset anybody.

AoB as much

AnO

Coping with the subconscious? Love to. Any hints gratefully received and I'll share them with therapist next week
JentlyJ, just tried to get a message through to you. It said you don't accept messages!! Anyway, thank you for yourmessage. BC
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