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ThomasMember

Psychology« on: 27.12.2011 at 03:01 [UT] »Scorpio is partial to Psychology, the soul, the psyche, the roots, or the source. Jeff Mayo associated it with theurge to identify with one’s source. This journey of psychology through the thoughts of others is shared with
Scorpio friends. It may not be in the interest or taste of others, but they are not excluded.

Posts: 222

Psychology means different things to different people, to different astrologers, different psychologists, to theyoung and old, the male and female. When we talk about psychology and listen to arguments about
psychology, we are actually talking about different things. How is this so? Psychology is the same concept but
the percepts and perceptions of each person are different. Each person reads this post in a different mannerand interprets in a different manner. We create our own perceptions and worlds from another reader, andunique to ourselves now, changing this perception with another incoming post.
I will attempt to list some thoughts and books of the concept of Psychology from one unknown (to me)
psychologist, Robert Ornstein in his textbook, and the views from the biologists, Darwin and Desmond Morris,
to Freud on the sexual libido, Jung on the individuation of self, Maslow on the healthy humans, and Maurice
Richard Bucke on the best human specimens of the human species.
We will start with the subject of Psychology from one Psychologist, Robert Ornstein, and the subjects heselected for study. Unfortunately, different authors have different preferences for the study of the same conceptof Psychology. Their percepts and perceptions are not entirely the same. Ornstein wanted to write a book on
psychology in his introductory class on psychology. It took him 25 years to write his textbook, “Psychology, thestudy of human experience.”
What are the topics he included in his book to tell us?
Biological influence on behaviour :Where we come from : Evolution and Genetics. Early Development . Birth to adolescence. Brain and thenervous system. Sensory experience.
Mental world of human behaviour:
Perceiving the world. Varieties of Consciousness. Basics of Learning. Remembering and Forgetting. Thinking
and Language. Intelligence and the Mind.
World of the Individual, the self:
Emotions and Feelings. Needs and Goals. Puzzle of Personality. Psychological disorders. Psychotherapies.
World of Society of the adult: Book was published in 1988 and written before that. Society and social issues
are different? Same?
Social psychology. Living in a high-tech world. Development in adulthood.
These are some of the issues I look at in the observation and classification of human behaviours when I
formulate the Psyche System for astrological language.
I generally look at the behaviours from the planets’ perspective, without signs, without houses, and without
aspects. I look at the development of the Sun as the self, the psyche. The majority responds at the level of theMoon or Earth behaviour, the reigning need of Noel Tyl. I classify this as the Moon development of the Sun
Psyche. Moon is the Feeding behaviour for biological survival. I note the extension of the growth of the Sun self
to Mars, the Fighting behaviour to protect the self against intruders, and the sexual libido of Freud toreproduce the species, the Fornicating behaviour. Hence, I read the behaviours as expressions of Mars and Moon
for the majority of the people. Mars is not rude, but crude, as nature forces are crude and raw. We look at a
young child running and caution, “don’t run. He cannot comply. He has yet to develop the Saturn control of his
nervous system.”
I look at those who have more control over their nervous system as the Jupiter behaviour. Jupiter seeks torelate to other members of the community, to behave as a gentle man or lady. He brings the actions of Mars
into reign and be more considerate of the effects of his actions upon others. He talks softly in the library anddoes not laugh at funerals. He reads of ideals and tries to emulate some of the better ones. I classify this as adevelopment of the Sun Psyche over the Mars energy and behaviour.
These are the major behavioural distinctions I observe in the Psyche System, and I do not ask Mars to behave
as Jupiter. When Mars becomes old, as he surely does, he will be Saturn, slow and steady, not running anymore.

I will move on to Darwin and Desmond Morris next. Again, I caution that the language here is more to Scorpio
and may not be in good taste for others. I apologise if you feel offended. That is the Libra rising.
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Linda Harris

Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #1 - on: 28.12.2011 at 03:01 [UT] »Psychology is the study of the psyche....and the astrological birth chart represents thecontents of the psyche. So it really Is natural for astrologers to study the psyche. I don't think there is muchto debate about that definition.
That isn't all it is, but that is what it is when using it in astrological delineation.
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I did not read your entire post.
But near the end you stated that Mars, when it becomes old, somehow morphs into Saturn.
This may be true, but it is not automatic. Sometimes Mars remains Mars and gets old living out, or trying live
out, its dynamic....(whatever the Mars is represented by within the birth chart.) There ARE hints in the chart asto whether or not the energies of the personal planets will successfully evolve.
I have studied psychology within the astrological map for many decades and it never ceases to be fascinating.
However: to know if you are getting it right, it's not about how many books You read but getting the correct(valid) information from good sources and then doing the research by using real people to work with. You
need to be willing to make mistakes when talking to the people for whom you are reading.
For me, astrology, psychology and philosophy cannot be disconnected. They are one.
Scorpio rising, Pluto (& Sun and Merc) in the 9th, moon on 8th cusp, Venus and Jupiter in 8th. So, yeah,
Plutonian.
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Re: Psychology« Reply #2 - on: 28.12.2011 at 07:01 [UT] »Fond of Tyl myself but find lot of other astrologers who goes in depth with the development of the personality.
A.T Mann is one.
Using the hscope with houses for this purpose includes stages...from the birth and further. Starting with the 1Hof the birth.
F.ex The mind-set house, the 3H, tells about the early learning, having contacts with the nearby environemt,
siblings etc.
You have this stand-still birth hscope but the planets and points moves around, by Solar Arcs and progressions
along with the transits. That tells about different kind of stimuli, energy, that the chartowner is surroundedwith. Planets are the actors, could be people who adds ingredients to the person. These are shaping thepersonality or development of the person.
Hm... I can´t exact cope with E being saturnine when years go by, but of course E looses some of the martial
quality during the process. But then we see J, tied to E, both rulers of h (and perhaps a) who do thebiggiest things, like an ice-age, the ice changes the shapes when moving around. When J done it´s work there
isn´t much left of what you don´t need on your path but it leaves room for new births. The rocks and montains(G)get´s rounded or moved and the whole landscape is changed. J is the big developer and also connected tothe uncounsious.
Bibbe
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #3 - on: 03.01.2012 at 03:58 [UT] »Quote from Linda Harris on 28.12.2011 at 03:01 [UT]:
Psychology is the study of the psyche....and the astrological birth chart represents thecontents of the psyche. So it really Is natural for astrologers to study the psyche. I don't think there is much to debate about thatdefinition.
That isn't all it is, but that is what it is when using it in astrological delineation.

Posts: 222

I did not read your entire post.
But near the end you stated that Mars, when it becomes old, somehow morphs into Saturn.
This may be true, but it is not automatic. Sometimes Mars remains Mars and gets old living out, or trying live out, its dynamic....
(whatever the Mars is represented by within the birth chart.) There ARE hints in the chart as to whether or not the energies of the personalplanets will successfully evolve.
I have studied psychology within the astrological map for many decades and it never ceases to be fascinating. However: to know if you
are getting it right, it's not about how many books You read but getting the correct (valid) information from good sources and then doing
the research by using real people to work with. You need to be willing to make mistakes when talking to the people for whom you arereading.
For me, astrology, psychology and philosophy cannot be disconnected. They are one.
Scorpio rising, Pluto (& Sun and Merc) in the 9th, moon on 8th cusp, Venus and Jupiter in 8th. So, yeah, Plutonian.
LainieThanks for your contribution.
i have always enjoyed reading your views.
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #4 - on: 03.01.2012 at 04:00 [UT] »Quote from bibbe on 28.12.2011 at 07:01 [UT]:Fond of Tyl myself but find lot of other astrologers who goes in depth with the development of the personality. A.T Mann is one.
Using the hscope with houses for this purpose includes stages...from the birth and further. Starting with the 1H of the birth.
F.ex The mind-set house, the 3H, tells about the early learning, having contacts with the nearby environemt, siblings etc.
You have this stand-still birth hscope but the planets and points moves around, by Solar Arcs and progressions along with the transits. That

Posts: 222

tells about different kind of stimuli, energy, that the chartowner is surrounded with. Planets are the actors, could be people who adds
ingredients to the person. These are shaping the personality or development of the person.

E

E

Hm... I can´t exact cope withbeing saturnine when years go by, but of course
looses some of the martial quality during theprocess. But then we see, tied to, both rulers of(and perhaps) who do the biggiest things, like an ice-age, the ice changes

JE

the shapes when moving around. Whenha

J done it´s work there isn´t much left of what you don´t need on your path but it leaves roomG)get´s rounded or moved and the whole landscape is changed. J is the big developer and also

for new births. The rocks and montains (connected to the uncounsious.
Bibbe

thanks Bibbe,
I am interested in the thoughts of Mann.
Can you tell us what you like about them?
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #5 - on: 03.01.2012 at 04:03 [UT] »Desmond Morris’ “Naked Ape” attracted me to understand my behaviour from a more fundamental level, at thecrude and raw level of natural forces that move me unconsciously. The goal was and still is to make theunconscious motivations conscious with mental forms or descriptions, though they can never describe thePosts: 222

invisible forces accurately. A rough description is better than nothing for the inarticulate Water signs. Freud orsomeone else gave an arbitrary number that the conscious part of us is only 10% of the total consciousness.
The naked ape refers to the relative lack of hairs for the human ape. I have lost this book and cannot recall
what he wrote in it. The main lesson for me was that our biology is quite common to all humans and the
behaviours are predictable at this biological level, to Feed for survival, Fight against intruders, Flee from danger,
and Fornicate for the collective good.
Some other books that he went into details include “Animal Watching”, “Man watching”, and “Body watching”
and several others. In “Man watching,” he wrote that the serious man watcher wants to know why the feelings
are aroused, to know how we come to act the way we do. A proficient observer can transform a boring social
occasion into an exciting field trip to come to a deeper understanding of human interactions and of theremarkable predictability of much of human behaviour. It can become a source of increased tolerance.
For the past few years, I have been throwing away one book a day from my library of books, and I seem tohave done the same for Darwin’s “Origin of species’ which is familiar to many readers. The evolution of thespecies is a slow process that takes generations, not in a single lifetime. This process does not end with therecent human species. There is an evolution of consciousness for the human apes as seen in the behaviours of
the child to the adult, and the psychology of Freud to Jung on the individuation of the mind from the groupmind as an individual, the Uranus factor of astrology. Maslow continued this observation of those who function
as an individualised consciousness from the society code of limits. Bucke took on those that are fully
functioning and it is odd that we do not pay much attention to these observations of Maslow and Bucke,
focusing on how to cope and fight, rather than how to live and love.
I am done with Darwin and Morris. This rummage into the library brings up several interesting works of thebiologists. Elaine Morgan wrote on the theory of the Aquatic Ape, a part of the ape evolution as a swimmer,
which many humans today are proficient, and the shedding of hairs to be efficient in the water. Dorion Saganwrote on the Biospheres, the metamorphosis of planet Earth. Rupert Sheldrake wrote on the Morphic
resonance, “Presence of the past.” This book is interesting as it gives meaning to the collective biological andpsychological behaviours of the 11th and 12th houses of astrology, the behaviour of group minds, cultural
minds, the collective habits of nature, humans and animals as a single entity, as a nation or company is a single
entity. These are some of the books for light reading and I will not argue about their contents.
We now go to the thoughts of Freud and Jung.

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #6 - on: 10.01.2012 at 01:58 [UT] »Jung’s psychology was the result of his own self realization of his unconscious. His assumptions and“unscientific” methods were recorded by his biographer Aniela Jaffe in “Memories, Dreams and Reflections.” It
was written in the form of an autobiography at the age of 83.

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Jung noted : My life is a story of the self realization of the unconscious. Everything in the unconscious seeks
outward manifestation, and the personality desires to evolve out of its unconscious conditions and to
experience life as a whole. I cannot employ the language of science to trace this process of growth in myself,
for I cannot experience myself as a scientific problem. {Science is a study of many different events andgeneralizes them with a concept. Jung’s study of his unconscious was the study of only one – himself, and not“scientific” in this sense.}
What we are to our inward vision can only be expressed by way of myth. Myth is more individual and expresses
life more precisely than does science. Science works with concepts of averages which are far too general to do
justice to the subjective variety of an individual life. I can only make direct statements, only tell stories.
Whether or not these stories are true is not the problem. The only question is whether what I tell is My fable,
My truth.
I know that in many things, I am not like others, but I do not know what I really am like. Man cannot compare
himself with any other creature; he is not a monkey, not a cow, not a tree. I am a man. But what is it to bethat? We are a psychic process which we do not control, or only partly direct. Consequently, we cannot haveany final judgment about ourselves or our lives. We never know how it has all come about. The story of a life
begins somewhere, at some time we happen to remember. By then, it was already highly complex. We do notknow how life is going to turn out. Therefore the story of life has no beginning, and the end can only bevaguely hinted at.
The only events in my life worth telling are those when the imperishable world irrupted into this transitory one.
That is why I speak chiefly of inner experiences, amongst which I include my dreams and visions. These are theprimary material of my scientific work. I early arrived at the insight that when no answers come from within to
the problems of life, they ultimately mean very little. Outward circumstances are no substitute for innerexperience. My life is singularly poor in outward happenings. I cannot tell much about them, for it would strikeme as hollow and insubstantial. I can understand only in the light of inner happenings.
As my life entered its second half (Uranus opposition), I was already embarked on the confrontation with thecontents of the unconscious. It was only after twenty years that I reached some degree of understanding of myfantasies. I had to find evidence for the historical prefiguration of my inner experiences. My encounter withalchemy was decisive for me and provided a historical basis which I had lacked.
Analytical psychology is fundamentally a natural science (science of nature forces), but is subject far more thanany other science to the personal bias of the observer. The psychologist must depend upon historical andliterary parallels if he wishes to exclude the crudest of errors in judgment. Light on the nature of alchemy cameto me after I read the text of the Golden Flower, the Chinese Alchemy sent to me by Richard Wilhelm. I soonsee that analytical psychology coincided with alchemy. The experiences of the alchemists were my experiences,and their world was my world. (In the Golden Flower, the end result of alchemy is a separation of the
consciousness from the physical body, the human body.)
My life has been permeated and held together by one idea and one goal: to penetrate into the secret of thepersonality. Everything can be explained from this central point, and all my works relate to this one theme.
(This has a Scorpio theme, the urge to identify with the source.)
My real scientific work began with the association experiment in 1903 (Saturn return in 1905). The firstquestion I ask myself was, “What does one do with the unconscious?” The reply was, “The relations between the
ego and the unconscious.” (Sun and Pluto in 7th house of relationship. Pluto rules MC Scorpio.)
The book on psychological types yielded the insight that every judgment made by an individual is conditioned
by his personality type and that every point of view is necessarily relative. This raised the question of the Unity
which must compensate this diversity, and it led me directly to the Chinese concept of Tao. (The Chineseconcept of Tao is the division of the whole into Yin and Yang for all things. There is no single magnetic pole byitself. North pole and South pole of a magnet are inseparable as a paired unity. No male without a female
concept. No female without a male concept. Jung put this unity as the anima and animus.)continue on next post

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #7 - on: 10.01.2012 at 02:00 [UT] »In Physics, we speak of energy and its various manifestations. The situation in psychology is precisely the same.
We are dealing primarily with energy and it can appear in various guises. If we conceive of libido as energy, we
can take a comprehensive and unified view. Qualitative questions as to the nature of the libido – whether it be
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sexuality, power, hunger or something else – recede into the background. What I wished to do for psychology
was to arrive at some logical and thorough view such as it provided in Physics by the theory of energetics.
The central concept of my psychology is the process of individuation (Uranus factor).
What I learn from Jung is his personal experiment and study of his own unconscious and his relationship of theself to the unconscious (which is the greater part of total consciousness). His inner world was fundamental tohim and the external events were relatively unimportant and sometimes cannot be recalled.
Jung’s central concept was to make the unconscious conscious, the individualisation of the self. This is the
Uranus factor in astrology. The individual has a mind apart from the group mind, collective mind of nation andgroup, society. This inner world of energy (which is invisible and without form) or libido is the source of
manifestation into the material world of forms (noumena into the phenomena, or cause into effect). The
personality is to function as an individual mind, an individualized self, or consciousness apart from theattachment to society and their views.
I have discarded Freud’s work from the library and will pass him by.
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Shining Ray
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Re: Psychology« Reply #8 - on: 12.01.2012 at 18:27 [UT] »Neptune has also been referred to as the planet of unconsciousness and has a relation to psychology. Jung had
Sun in Leo (individuality and creative expression) in exact square to Neptune. His work with dreams, symbols(astrology and the Mandela), exploring the collective unconscious are all expressions of his individual urge tofind meaning. Plutonians analyse things to death, but refuse to accept what is only presented on thesurface. Astrology and Psychology have been called sister subjects. Jung pointed out that Astrology was
psychologys elder sister. Dane Rudhyar was one of the first astrologers to formulate some of Jung's
findings through an astrological lens. I wish I had opened up sooner to his work and have found his writings to
be simply brilliant. It took a Venus transit through Aquarius to trine my natal Pluto in order for me to value hishumanistic approach and he renewed my view of astrology, psychology and evolution.
Quote:
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Gender:As so much in modern psychology, even at the popular level, turns around the use of the term "complex" and of what it stands for it isimportant for the astro-psychologist to gain a basic understanding of the subject. To know intellectually what this or that complex means interms of the psychological ideas of Freud, Adler or Jung is not enough. The astrologer should have a clear grasp of the process according
to which complexes form and develop, of their original causes in man's negative approach to life and experience, and of their correlation
with the four fundamental drives in human nature — drives which have definite and adequate representations in astrological symbolism.
By Dane Rudhyar

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Re: Psychology« Reply #9 - on: 12.01.2012 at 18:43 [UT] »Also, wouldn't C play a big part too as it relates to how the mind works?

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Shining Ray
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Re: Psychology« Reply #10 - on: 12.01.2012 at 18:51 [UT] »I would think so, and in myth Mercury was the only god who could travel into Hades world. C can travel
between relaities and is the god of cross roads. I have often beeen in two minds over which path to choose
An astrologer once described Mercury as an errand boy!

.

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #11 - on: 16.01.2012 at 23:53 [UT] »Quote from Shining Ray on 12.01.2012 at 18:27 [UT]:
Neptune has also been referred to as the planet of unconsciousness and has a relation to psychology. Jung had Sun in Leo (individuality
and creative expression) in exact square to Neptune. His work with dreams, symbols (astrology and the Mandela), exploring the collective
unconscious are all expressions of his individual urge to find meaning. Plutonians analyse things to death, but refuse to accept what is

only presented on the surface. Astrology and Psychology have been called sister subjects. Jung pointed out that Astrology was psychologys

Posts: 222

elder sister. Dane Rudhyar was one of the first astrologers to formulate some of Jung's findings through an astrological lens. I wish I

had opened up sooner to his work and have found his writings to be simply brilliant. It took a Venus transit through Aquarius to trine mynatal Pluto in order for me to value his humanistic approach and he renewed my view of astrology, psychology and evolution.
Quote:
As so much in modern psychology, even at the popular level, turns around the use of the term "complex" and of what it
stands for it is important for the astro-psychologist to gain a basic understanding of the subject. To know intellectually what
this or that complex means in terms of the psychological ideas of Freud, Adler or Jung is not enough. The astrologer shouldhave a clear grasp of the process according to which complexes form and develop, of their original causes in man's
negative approach to life and experience, and of their correlation with the four fundamental drives in human nature —drives which have definite and adequate representations in astrological symbolism. By Dane Rudhyar

Thanks for sharing your experience.
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #12 - on: 17.01.2012 at 00:00 [UT] »Correction : Jung had Sun and Uranus in the seventh house, not Pluto.

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #13 - on: 17.01.2012 at 00:03 [UT] »Abraham Maslow is more popular with management students and high achievers than with the psychologists. If
a person is regarded as healthy, he has no need for a psychiatrist or psychologist, or a doctor. He has no
business for the psychiatrist. Maslow laid out his assumptions in “Toward a Psychology of Being.”
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Maslow noted : We have an inner nature that seeks to manifest itself. Healthy people manifest this inner
nature, while unhealthy people do not.
A study of self-fulfilling people can teach us much about our own shortcomings and the proper direction to
grow.
Healthy people are defined by describing their clinically observed characteristics as follows:
1 ) Superior perception of reality.
2 ) Increased acceptance of self, or others and of nature.
3 ) Increased spontaneity.
4 ) Increase in problem centring.
5 ) Increased detachment and desire for privacy.
6 ) increased autonomy, and resistance to enculturation.
7 ) Greater freshness of appreciation, and richness of emotional reaction.
8 ) Higher frequency of peak experiences.
9) Increased identification with the human species.
10) Changed interpersonal relations.
11) More democratic character structure.
12) Greatly increased creativeness.
13) Certain changes in the value system.
Maslow had studied them mostly in older people, and not for the younger ones.
When the perception of a man changes, his responses to the world changes. His behaviours and habits, andrelationships to the other people in society change.
Maslow offered some propositions of growth psychology, self realisation psychology :
1)
2)
3)

We have an inner nature which tends to persist.
These are potentials, not actualities.
This inner core is weak.

4)5)This inner nature has characteristics that are species wide and others idiosyncratic.
It is possible to study these inner characteristics objectively.

6)
7)
8)

Many aspects of this self are repressed or unaware of.
Though weak, this self does not disappear.
It grows partly by discovery and partly by creation of the person himself. Every person in part creates

himself.
9)
If the inner core is frustrated, sickness results.
10)This inner core is good or neutral.
11)
12)

Sources of love and creativeness are in the unconscious.
It is best to encourage the growth of this weak inner nature to fruition and flowering.

13)
14)
15)

It is necessary to understand them and make use of them.
Psychologists assume two kinds of worlds, the natural world and the psychic world.
Self actualization means to transcend the deficiency needs. It is a state of Being, expressing, rather

than coping, or striving.
16)
Self actualization rarely happens (by Maslow’s criteria in less than 1% of the adult population.)
17)
The state of being without a system of values is psychopathogenic. Humans need a framework ofvalues, a philosophy of life to live by.
18)
Healthy people are able to dip into the unconscious and preconscious with acceptance.
19)
20)

Self actualization does not mean a transcendence of all human problems.
The past exists now in the person as memories. The future exists now in the person as ideals.

This is a shortened version of 43 propositions. He suggested that there is an inner self that we can develop to
fuller actualization and this development gives us meaning and pleasure to do so. This meaning of life is thus anatural inner desire to be better than what we are today, every day, from birth to death.
Maslow’s observations are a study of the individualized consciousness, the Uranus factor of astrology.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@South node is what we are born with, the aptitudes that we inherit from genes and pre-birth. We are not a
blank slate as each child or birth has a different aptitude and genes. South node in sign and house is where wehave “been there, done that.” It has no more excitement, no more thrills, or boring. The Sun in sign and house
has to develop for a lifetime those aptitudes but the South node starts the life with them. North node in signand house is where we go for new excitements and new thrills, or new challenges, which are more challenging
and satisfying.
South Node Sabian symbol (Dane Rudhyar) : A large archaic volume reveals a traditional wisdom. North Nodein third house (Martin Schulman), a Messenger,
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Krista ShippMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #14 - on: 17.01.2012 at 02:09 [UT] »Wonderful thread.. One I will read many times
Thomas- Congrats & Thank you
You have put NO small amount of time & thought into this...

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Gender:

Enlightening & provocative- unbeatable duo

Krista CmJe

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #15 - on: 24.01.2012 at 00:04 [UT] »Quote from Krista Shipp on 17.01.2012 at 02:09 [UT]:
Wonderful thread.. One I will read many times
Thomas- Congrats & Thank you

Posts: 222

You have put NO small amount of time & thought into this...

Enlightening & provocative
Krista- unbeatable duo

CmJe

Thanks Krista,
i attribute this to Pluto, Jupiter and Uranus in Leo eleventh house.
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #16 - on: 24.01.2012 at 00:06 [UT] »We will introduce Richard Maurice Bucke and his work, “Cosmic Consciousness.”
In 1882, he was a professor of mental and nervous diseases at Western University (London, Ontario). In 1888,

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he was elected President of the Psychological Section of the British medical Association. In 1890, he was the
President of the American Medico- Psychological Association. That was the academic introduction. At the age of
36 (Uranus Trine), he had an experience which he called cosmic consciousness and led him to study those who
had this experience to a greater degree than himself.
Bucke noted : There are three forms of consciousness. There is Simple consciousness which is possessed by theupper half of the animal kingdom. A dog or horse is conscious of the things about it. It is conscious of its own
limbs and body and it knows that these are a part of it. Man has an added consciousness to this, a Self
consciousness. He is conscious of himself as a distinct entity apart from all the rest of the universe. No animal
can realize itself in this way. Man is capable of treating his own mental states as objects of consciousness.
Language is the objective of which self consciousness is the subjective. They are two halves of the same thing.
Cosmic consciousness is an added consciousness above Self consciousness. It is a consciousness of the life andorder of the universe. The three forms are simple, self and cosmic consciousness.
This work, “Cosmic Consciousness,” is to broaden the general view of human life to such a possibility and theunderstanding of the psychology of those who live with such awareness.
This cosmic consciousness is a natural growth in moral and intellect for humans from self consciousness. The
moral part is important but less easy to describe than the intellectual development.
There are four distinct steps in this intellectual evolution. The first is the registration of a sensation or
impression. This is the percept. A percept is a sense impression, a sound, an object seen or felt. This isregistered in a cell. Percepts grow and the cells grow. A condition is reached when groups of these percepts
combine into a greater unit, a recept. A recept is something that has been received. As these recepts grow,they combine into a concept. A concept is like a named recept. It is like a ledger entry replacing actual goods.
It is an algebra notion for any number. The race that possesses concept is also in possession of words, symbols,or language. This is also the possession of Self consciousness.
The brain of a thinking man does not exceed the size of a non thinker. The reason is that the mind of a thinker
does all the work with concepts whereas the non -thinker works with percepts and recepts. The conceptual mind
works with algebraic symbols to represent the numbers of the perceptual mind. The accumulation of concepts isa double process. Each year the child accumulates a larger number of concepts, while at the same time theindividual concept becomes more detailed, more complex. As an example, the concept of Science is more
complex for the older man than the younger boy. There is a limit to the growth of concepts in number andcomplexity in the brain. Concepts combine to form a more complex unit of supra concept. The supraconceptual intellect is intuition, or insights. This intellect belongs to the Cosmic consciousness.
There are two chief elements to the cosmic consciousness from the self consciousness. There is an added
consciousness and an added faculty. He knows that the universe is a living presence, that individual existence iscontinuous beyond death. He takes on enormously greater capacity both for learning and initiating.
The main part of the book comprises case studies and how these cases lived their lives. The cases included thespiritual leaders of the world, the founders of thoughts such as Buddha and Jesus and Lao Zi and Whitman thepoet. They also included those with lesser cosmic consciousness and what these experiences meant to theindividuals involved.. This work, “Cosmic Consciousness,” is to broaden the general view of human life to such a
possibility and the understanding of those who live with such awareness. This is an introduction for those whoare hungry for more perspective on the meaning and purpose in life, to read and encounter the author on theirown.. It is the evolution of consciousness from self consciousness to cosmic consciousness or universe
consciousness.
These are the Neptune and Pluto factors in astrology, the awareness of energy without form and consciousness
without matter. Energy is indeed invisible and without form. Consciousness is indeed not a material thing. Man
is indeed a part of nature, in essence nature, and the astrologer can feel the solar system energy with theplanets and the chart, the microcosm in the macrocosm. Dane Rudhyar, in the “Practice of Astrology,” gave ahigh standard of reading a chart and feeling the living person. The chart can be read as a music score in timewith the changes of the ephemeris and seeing how life unfolds with the planetary cycles as well as a painting inspace with planetary picture. In reading a music score, each note has no meaning without the preceding note of
the past memory and the succeeding note of the future imagination. Each incident in life has meaning in
relation to yesterday and tomorrow, and yet life is lived today, heard with the present note.
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #17 - on: 24.01.2012 at 00:07 [UT] »This concludes the journey of psychology with the thoughts of others. Thoughts are external things we receive
since birth and do not belong to us. The words and languages and ideas are from the parents and neighbours
and teachers, and authors. Thoughts are as external as the sounds we hear, and the mental pictures we see in
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the outside world. When the Buddhists talk about the six senses, they see the thought as the same as the otherfive sensors, receivers or transducers of signals from the surrounding. The only difference is the channel orfrequency bandwidth, or number of vibrations of energy of each receiver, each filtering of the unlimited,
unconscious signals in the air.
End of a journey through Capricorn, start of a new moon in Aquarius,
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Krista ShippMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #18 - on: 24.01.2012 at 00:54 [UT] »I have ND 10f m SN 10 f- H3

D rules IC & H11

Hmmm....wonder what it is I've had 'enough of' ?...
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Gender:In this Lifetime- I have no children- by choicesabian- 10-11 deg Virgo
In Her Baby A Mother Sees Her Deep Longing For A Son Answered

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #19 - on: 28.10.2012 at 02:09 [UT] »I muse upon the correspondence of the planets in astrology and the evolution of consciousness of the speciesof Naked Ape.

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I was born. I am not aware of this incident. It is certified to happen in a private clinic to a young woman and aman. The man and woman were married till death do they part.
I was born on the planet Earth of the Solar System. Earth cannot see itself and does so imperfectly through themirror of its satellite Moon. Moon is the assimilation of Mercury perception with the five objective sensors andtransducers, and Venus attraction of food for the body and mind of the infant till its death and separation from
Earth.
As a Naked Ape, I operate unconsciously and habitually with the Moon from the ears of the infant to the aged
and death.
Mars is the action to add the food for the body and mind from outside the body of the Moon. The naked ape
has four types of Mars actions as it apes and mimics other apes in the surrounding. It Feeds for survival, Fights
against intruder into the territorial space, Flees from danger of floods and threats, and Fornicates to reproduce
the naked ape species. When Mars is thwarted in its actions, it exhibits Anger and Aggression.
With more and more assimilation of Moon experiences and food for the body and mind, Mars grows into Jupiterenergy and behaviour. Jupiter apes the ideals of the Elders (Saturn) and aspires to some of these ideals. Jupitergoes beyond the territorial space of Mars through travel and does not need to Fight with Mars for scarcity, or
scarce resources in limited time. Jupiter is abundant with the greener pastures. Jupiter can afford to begenerous with Mars. Jupiter sees beyond the limits of today and the prospect of greater tomorrows. Jupiter canafford to be patient with Mars impatience. Jupiter relates to Society and goes beyond the resources of thepersonal Mars and interacts with other apes as a political animal, a social animal.
The distinction between Mars and Jupiter behaviours is stark. Mars sees scarcity and territorial limits. Hence, he
has to Fight against intrusion into his personal space, emotional space, mental space and even cyber space, or
imaginary space. Jupiter goes to a different geography with different nationals and a different historical time in
the future, which is beyond the space and time of the here and now and the Me. Jupiter is thus generous andsharing, allowing others to grow in their own ways. He sees abundance and seeks to improve himself to thisnobler quality. Jupiter is aspiring while Mars is protective and defensive.
At the first Saturn Return, I had attained the animal needs of Moon and Mars and the aspiration of Jupiter tothe Standards of Saturn. Saturn is the ideal of the Society. It is the Maturity of the infant as a Parent, an
Authority, and an Elder who guards the code of conduct for the Society and Culture and Nation. It is theManager, the Governor who is responsible for the lives of other people, not only his own. Saturn has achieved
the excellence of Society and is responsible for the new generation to achieve this excellence and Mastery oflife. It is to live well, to have a good life. The Manager plans and creates the future. Managers make things
happen, not wait for things to happen. Astrology to the manager becomes a tool for Creation not prediction.
Socrates noted that an unexamined life is not worth living. Aristotle, or Plato (?), added that an unplanned life
is not worth examining.
Saturn has Attained, Arrived and Mastered the life with its exigencies. Nothing is unexpected or unpredictable inlife. What else is there to live for? The Success (?) of life is to die. The Preacher, and many other mystics,
princes and governors, pondered this question before us. I do not work so hard and studied so hard so that I
can die. There is a dissatisfaction with the status quo. The Saturn Goal towards death is not the answer toJupiter aspiration. This dissatisfaction is the Uranus behaviour. Uranus seeks a better ideal than Saturn limits ofthe society of Naked Apes. However, Uranus has no idea what it is seeking for.
Saturn standard is now raised to Uranus search for the invisible forces of Nature, which goes beyond the needsof the species of Naked Ape. Scientists and Astrologers and other Occult investigators are behaving with thisUranus standard for Saturn. In the Buddhist context, it is the Sotapanna who leaves the home and society insearch of something that moves inside him. Maslow’s self actualisers are responding to this urge to go beyond
national boundaries and social stratification. It is the need to indulge in the inner self and express this need, be
it idiosyncratic or generic.
Neptune is the awareness of this invisible need of Nature Forces. It is non human and without form. It is theenergy that is in all forms and space and thoughts. Neptune concentrates the energy of Uranus development
into a palpable feeling of the Whole. Saturn now raises the standard to Neptune vibrations. Without form,
Neptune cannot be cultivated or developed. Through the form of Saturn, the intellect gives a rough description(inaccurate description) to the ineffable and invisible. This post is also inaccurate and only serves as a pointer.
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #20 - on: 28.10.2012 at 02:10 [UT] »Pluto is the concentration of Neptune energy and becomes a focal point of Creation in the world of formlessenergy. Saturn standard is raised to Pluto, as Pluto also cannot be accurately described. It can only be alluded
to for the mystic to feel it within himself. Bucke wrote of the fully functioning consciousness of the Naked Apeof Desmond Morris.
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Since I have nothing better to do, I investigate the death of the body and mind. When do I die? How do I die?
Some people claimed to be able to die with conscious awareness. Many had left Society after being in positionsof power and wealth and education at the Saturn Return to indulge in the inner needs of the self. There is no
new thing under the Sun. All is vanity. The rich dies as the poor. The educated has no special privilege fromdeath. At the Chiron Return, I had an experience which showed me that the claims are not unfounded.
At the Chiron Return, while seated in meditation, I felt the consciousness or mind separated from the physicalbody. The mind and body are two distinct and separate entities. The body is not mine. It is a separate thing or
car or vehicle.
Since then, for the last five to six years, I work with this separation of mind from body. The body is like a car. I
use it to move from one place to another. When I go home, I park the car in the car park, and not carry it withme to my house. The mind is like a software memory program of the computer. When I switch on a memory
program, it starts the body to move in specific ways and carries out specific functions. When I switch off themind, there is no movement in the body.
It is time to shut the Muse.
Scorpio Psychologist,
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Re: Psychology« Reply #21 - on: 28.10.2012 at 08:26 [UT] »read about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-volatile_random-access_memory
this is maybe the closest one can get to disconnecting the "machine" and still retain information.

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Elemi66
Ex Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #22 - on: 28.10.2012 at 17:45 [UT] »Hello Thomas, fascinating thread. I would urge you to read Antonio Damasio's 'The Feeling of What Happens'
to see an exciting perspective on why mind and body are not as separate as you think they are: certainly theobject body is separate because externally perceived but the lived body is a self and other perceiver- it canobjectifiy and relate.
I have always loved Jung and Maslow but do believe the psychoanalysts were onto something although I findtheir theories depressing and dispriting.
Erik Ericksonn is another interesting developmental theorists who talks of the human attaining various levels at
different ages
I think I had a 'peak' experience when I was nine..appropriately enough on top of the Jungfrau on a school trip.
I was there was some way of checking what my neptune transits were at that time. It really was the mostastonishing electrifying feeling of strength, joy and oneness which I've never replicated.
In the field of depth psychology you have a clutch of aries...Heinz Kohut, Melanie Klein and also, I think,
Winnicot.
The truth of astrology seems demonstrated to me when the most interrelational psychologists.....Harry Stack
Sullivan and Ronnie Laing are a Pisces and libran respectively.
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Elemi66

Ex Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #23 - on: 28.10.2012 at 17:46 [UT] »That should have read 'I wish there was some way of checking'
BTW, Hi Lou, I was in Berlin for five days so didn't get to say more on the cancer mars thread!
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Re: Psychology« Reply #24 - on: 05.11.2012 at 09:31 [UT] »Quote from Thomas on 10.01.2012 at 02:00 [UT]:

I have discarded Freud’s work from the library and will pass him by.
ThomasVery unwise step I must say. This will only show your personal taste. If this is the aim of this thread (presenting
your personal views) than OK. But let me tell you from many years of experience that Freud's theories abouthuman psyche happen to work and work really well. Of course so do any other theories too..depends on thecase/person analysed/therapist's preference. I tend to agree with Jung here who said some people have a
psyche bulid up according to Freud's theory, others' resmble more to his own and so on, you could mention any
famous names from the field active of personality psychology.
Kisses: r
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GoldFishMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #25 - on: 06.11.2012 at 09:47 [UT] »"Until you make the uncoscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate" C. Jung
"A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus
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Gender:

These phrases depict the connection between astrology and psychology.

Al psychologist here. I beg you to accept me in your h group

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cris_meMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #26 - on: 14.11.2012 at 08:30 [UT] »since this Mercury rx in my 9th seems to make me prone to be misunderstood, I'll refrain from any personalcomments on this matter. and give you something I think is missing in here: perspective, and information.
here we have an interview which offers the unique opportunity to meet 2 psychotherapists, and learn a thing or
two about what it is all about (you know, beyond personal wishes and projections). the topic is anxiety, alsoquite useful and informative since we often talk about such things in this forum.
hope you enjoy!
https://www.psychotherapy.net/interview/Reid-Wilson

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Gender:should you care to, there's a ton of info on that site, and a load of real life psychologists and real life
psychotherapeutic theories and methods to learn from.

PS one of the best psychotherapists I know and quite famous these days is Irvin Yallom.
He has a Tau Moon in the 7th, conj Chiron in the 6th, and conj Tau Venus and Gemini Mercury in the 7th, also
Gem Sun in the 7th. (=common sense, practicality, comfort, plus communication, all focused in the realm of
personal, one-to-one relationships and healing in the service of others).
Virgo Mars conj Neptune in the 9th (health + spirituality), both conj MC, and square the stellium above.
my personal favorite - that to me, always gives away a psychologically evolved individual (bc we control what's
in the 8th, so these ppl can control and become aware of their own compulsions, power drives, attachments,
fears, etc) - Pluto in the 8th, conj Jupiter, both in nurturing Cancer - balancing the rx Cap Saturn in the 2th(self-discipline build out of personal struggles - with loss, fears, lack of self-confidence - help clients/the otherfind value, enlarge their own perspective, and generally deal with fears, attachments, power games, loss, etc).
Uranus in the 5th squares this opposition. which probably makes him a fun guy to be around.
enjoy the interview! the one who asks the questions is Yallom's son, also a psychotherapist. and also a good
one, they say.
and if you haven't, read Yallom's books! that is how psychotherapy works. all you need to know is in there.
start with Love's Executioner.
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cris_me

Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #27 - on: 14.11.2012 at 09:57 [UT] »and for those of you who will not read it
Quote:
VY: I would imagine it’s also hard for therapists because they’re natural caretakers, they’re empathic, they want their clients to feelbetter…
RW: We do have this tendency in our field to keep rapport and be gentle, to not get people too upset. I think a lot of people gravitate to
the treatment of anxiety disorders because they have an affinity to that arena. They know what it's like to be anxious, they may haveanxiety problems themselves, they’ve figured out some techniques and want to help others with it. But this is a contact sport. It's
aggressive. It works better when you've got a therapist who is already a risk taker.This is a contact sport. It's aggressive. It works
better when you've got a therapist who is already a risk taker. It's like the primary care physician who’s trying to help you
decelerate from a benzodiazepine that you’re dependent on. When they're really kind and gentle with you, it sometimes takes forever to
get off of them. When they're a little tougher with you and push, then sometimes it works out better for you.

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VY: So you need to be comfortable pushing a client into discomfort.
RW: That's right."

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Silenus
Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #28 - on: 14.11.2012 at 15:26 [UT] »Thanks for putting your heart on your sleeve Thomas. It was an interesting read. A journey through Scorpio is
the hardest but the most illuminating of lives.

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EnigmeMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #29 - on: 14.11.2012 at 17:34 [UT] »If you can find a 1981 or older edition of Llewellyn's A to Z Delineator, I believe it has Ericksonn's
developmental ages and associations with the planets from infancy to old age. I have to agree with Ramez
because it is in our infancy that we begin to psychologically process our nurturing and training. Many of us wereraised to consider bodily functions and/or parts as not clean and our parent's reactions to our bodily needs
definitely leave deep impressions upon our inner psyche, ie the UnconsciousBJ and SubconsciousBI andpsychotherapy of the Freudian/Jungian/Adler/Ericksson type would be very useful in helping a person actualize
the unconscious behaviors that could hinder or help in relating to others. I get the impression that
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psychologists themselves were uncomfortable with the Body and from the 20s on began the process of
separating the Body from the Mind and Emotions for the same above mentioned reasons.
Oft times people do not even realize that they are doing something or that they react strongly in a given
situation that involves others. I have been involved with psychiatry/psychology most of my life.. I totally agree
that ultimately psychology is of the realm of the A and our Consciousness... it should be thepsychologist/psychiatrists main goal to help the person learn how to heal/cope.. having the AmJ can give a
person a love of delving deep within the Self and Others, uncovering what is hidden.. this combination is quite
Scorpionic in nature..
sometimes it takes a little rocking to get things rolling.. especially mental blockages where the mind takes thememoryBC and sublimates it to the land of the unconscious because the memory or memories are too painful
to cope with. Cris Me thank you for posting and I would love to read the whole, but unfortunately someinternet plans charge deep into the pockets.. all theories can be relevant in therapy as the client improves,changing from psychotherapies to behavioral/cognitive then onward.. I love a holistic integrative approach.
Then needs of one may not be the same as another although they may have similar diagnosis... Of late I
question some views of insanity... some of us can function fairly well and with medication the creative process
becomes null and void. In some societies certain types of "Insanity" were/are considered Holy, OtherWorldly andthe person was/is considered Blessed by the "Gods"... this seems quite Neptunian and if we were to voice ourpsychism and such to most "Normal" people we would be considered Insane... Granted I am not saying that all
people with disassociative issues are blessed or such but when I see Modern/Recent psychology and thedispensing of drugs with no improvement I question who is right to judge Normalcy cos it seems that people
become less colorful and more bland, blending into the grays and the beige... some of the greatest artists were
insane and if they were living now would be relegated to hospitals or the streets if they were poor.. hmmm
noting now a definite correlation between the lack of Artistic creativity nowadays and society's need foreveryone to be "happy" and docile... think of all the movie remakes or the stealing of riffs, beats, words fromsongs written years ago and now morphed into "newer" music.. benzodiazapines be damned.. and they are only
7% effective...from my college psych books and research done to fulfill scholastic requirements.
Having seen the devastating effects of electroshock and drug therapies
Eyesis..

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Ostergaard
Ex Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #30 - on: 14.11.2012 at 19:52 [UT] »I would beware what planets and signs we're attributing to interest in psychology. It is a "science" as much as
astrology has been and very skewed modernly by religion. The way psychologists view suicide alone is a greatsign that psychology is not clearly defined by science. The view that all suicide is "bad" or "immoral" stems
from religion, NOT science. There is nothing inherently immoral or wrong about suicide and the 5150 rule isonly a very recent thing! Research shows that imprisoning people who are depressed and suicidal and giving
them only a TV to watch actually all worsens depression, yet hospitals and psychologists do not follow what thisresearch shows and continues to worsen the issues that depressed people have.
Also, the way psychologists actually diagnose mental illnesses is so skewed from one psych to the next that it's
like they don't follow the same book, even though there is one, one that holds such vague definitions ofsymptoms that almost all disorders overlap.
Seems to be a very tainted "science" and one might want to keep in mind that it's possibly got some serious
Neptune/Piscean illusion tossed in there somehow. There are also serious control and power issues, probably
related to Pluto/Scorpio, and the serious infantilizing and harming of a large portion of "patients." Even people
with only mild depression are FORCED to take meds and not allowed to make that decision for themselves.
Very much lacking in any sense of humanitarianism. I see the worst of Saturn, Pluto, AND Neptune in thispseudoscience.

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GoldFishMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #31 - on: 16.11.2012 at 23:29 [UT] »Thanks for diagnozing me as dellusional AkvOst
Although you are obviously not a psychologist, or a philsopher of science, it looks like you think you have theright to junge.
By the way, you are free to commit suicide. I will not stop you, I 'm humanitarian
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HelenaMarieEx Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #32 - on: 20.11.2012 at 20:35 [UT] »Quote from ~ Louise ~ on 12.01.2012 at 18:43 [UT]:
Also, wouldn't

C play a big part too as it relates to how the mind works?

Agree - I have CmG and it's been quite a downer for me...major depression most of my life.
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Krista ShippMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #33 - on: 20.11.2012 at 22:22 [UT] »I have CmJ e.
Great power of concentration.
Words are truly my weapon- I so often bite my togue
KSS
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Lisel
Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #34 - on: 21.11.2012 at 18:45 [UT] »I studied psychology for several yrs, hoping it would open the magical gate to the subconscious, only to
discover that grand theory (as astrology), Jung, and even Freud (as dealing with theories not able to be falsified
by Popper's Theory of Science, we're banned in university. My dream was to combine it with astrology, but...I
held on for 4 yrs, but got so depleted in that I felt I had to do playacting in the end to find it exciting with all
those seethroughtests, marginal research about f. ex 'Do kid's of abusive alcoholics suffer from

Posts: 776
Gender:anxiety/problems in adult life' etc. Yes, of course they do!? But is that really breakthrough science?! We all, atleast if we could emphathize, knew that? Jung was totally bannished, I tried to write a thesis inspired by him,
but got grounded. This was in Copenhagen.
Astrologically, I believe that Scorpio as a deep, feeling sign, does not really have the affinity with psychology,
you would have thought. Even Liz Greene states in 'Love Relations' that Psychology classes show a bunch of
Aquarians, heaps of Geminis and a big deal of Libras. That is because the airsigns need to grasp the map of thepsyche. I believe doctors and especially Psychiatrist on the other hand are more tenanted by a Scorpio
emphasis. I do think it has to do with the earthy shadowsign of Taurus, and Biology of the mind, thus using
medication, whilst Aquarius with it's shadow Leo is more idealistic, basically. But in a way, I wish Psychology
was more Plutonic, and less airy. Although an airsign myself k, (with a AoIh) I missed the deeper levels instudying at university, and how I wish it would be possible to be brave enough to combine depth
psychology/astrology/academia in society, bridging the gap between those dried up university speciments andthe feeling/intuitive wisdom that now is banned from the grand halls of higher education..

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rookishMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #35 - on: 22.11.2012 at 10:21 [UT] »Quote from Lisel on 21.11.2012 at 18:45 [UT]:
I studied psychology for several yrs, hoping it would open the magical gate to the subconscious, only to discover that grand theory (asastrology), Jung, and even Freud (as dealing with theories not able to be falsified by Popper's Theory of Science, we're banned inuniversity. My dream was to combine it with astrology, but...I held on for 4 yrs, but got so depleted in that I felt I had to do playacting in
the end to find it exciting with all those seethroughtests, marginal research about f. ex 'Do kid's of abusive alcoholics suffer fromanxiety/problems in adult life' etc. Yes, of course they do!? But is that really breakthrough science?! We all, at least if we couldemphathize, knew that? Jung was totally bannished, I tried to write a thesis inspired by him, but got grounded. This was in Copenhagen.
Astrologically, I believe that Scorpio as a deep, feeling sign, does not really have the affinity with psychology, you would have thought.
Even Liz Greene states in 'Love Relations' that Psychology classes show a bunch of Aquarians, heaps of Geminis and a big deal of Libras.
That is because the airsigns need to grasp the map of the psyche. I believe doctors and especially Psychiatrist on the other hand are more

Posts: 3675

tenanted by a Scorpio emphasis. I do think it has to do with the earthy shadowsign of Taurus, and Biology of the mind, thus using
medication, whilst Aquarius with it's shadow Leo is more idealistic, basically. But in a way, I wish Psychology was more Plutonic, and lessairy. Although an airsign myselfk, (with a AoIh) I missed the deeper levels in studying at university, and how I wish it would bepossible to be brave enough to combine depth psychology/astrology/academia in society, bridging the gap between those dried up
university speciments and the feeling/intuitive wisdom that now is banned from the grand halls of higher education..

Interesting. How much of your experience is a product of place and level of education do you think? ie what is
the academic focus of the insitituion, what is its history in its approach to this specific field, what are thespecialisms, where are the expertise and secondly are we talking undergraduate, post graduate or doctoral
studies that are so restricting in following interesting paths?
Seems to me that those h doctors have to go through the classes alongside the air types to get their
qualifications - if h isn't there, they don't get the qualifications and don't practice. So what does this say
about the observation that psych classes are full of air signs? Seems likely that the course is populated by bothand what they do with it later is what may be different....
Having said that - I did my Masters degree at a prestigious university in social and political sciences. Of the 32
culturally diverse people on that course, 18 had k A, 5 were e A, 4 were h A and the other 5 were
scattered - yes simplistic astrology. I wonder if the choice of institution itself was as much an influence incourse membership as the actual discipline. The solidity, intellectual status and recognition of the instituition
for academic excellence being important to fixed signs in choice of institution alongside the social science
aspects which are k. Ah complexity of context and causation.
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IP Loggedbibbe
Ex Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #36 - on: 22.11.2012 at 13:07 [UT] »Having said that - I did my Masters degree at a prestigious university in social and political sciences. Of the 32
culturally diverse people on that course, 18 had k A, 5 were e A, 4 were h A and the other 5 were
scattered - yes simplistic astrology. I wonder if the choice of institution itself was as much an influence incourse membership as the actual discipline. The solidity, intellectual status and recognition of the instituition
for academic excellence being important to fixed signs in choice of institution alongside the social science
aspects which are k. Ah complexity of context and causation. [/quote]

Rookishquite interesting

you get 2 more persons to the list.
When I started studying what we here call cultural history, I started with folklore. We were just two of us
starting that year. The other eA and I k.
The status was not ranked very high, and not to these days. People didn´t know about the subject and if they
got a brief description one could see they thought it was "spacy", specific those who kept on studying
quantitative/hard data
I think the main interest in the subject as it was presented, lied in the interest of human "behaviour", not aims
for a title or well paid carrier.
Just a comment...
Bibbe
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GoldFish

Member

Re: Psychology« Reply #37 - on: 22.11.2012 at 14:21 [UT] »Quote from Lisel on 21.11.2012 at 18:45 [UT]:
I studied psychology for several yrs, hoping it would open the magical gate to the subconscious, only to discover that grand theory (asastrology), Jung, and even Freud (as dealing with theories not able to be falsified by Popper's Theory of Science, we're banned inuniversity. My dream was to combine it with astrology, but...I held on for 4 yrs, but got so depleted in that I felt I had to do playacting in
the end to find it exciting with all those seethroughtests, marginal research about f. ex 'Do kid's of abusive alcoholics suffer from

Posts: 228
Gender:anxiety/problems in adult life' etc. Yes, of course they do!? But is that really breakthrough science?! We all, at least if we couldemphathize, knew that? Jung was totally bannished, I tried to write a thesis inspired by him, but got grounded. This was in Copenhagen.
Astrologically, I believe that Scorpio as a deep, feeling sign, does not really have the affinity with psychology, you would have thought.
Even Liz Greene states in 'Love Relations' that Psychology classes show a bunch of Aquarians, heaps of Geminis and a big deal of Libras.
That is because the airsigns need to grasp the map of the psyche. I believe doctors and especially Psychiatrist on the other hand are moretenanted by a Scorpio emphasis. I do think it has to do with the earthy shadowsign of Taurus, and Biology of the mind, thus using
medication, whilst Aquarius with it's shadow Leo is more idealistic, basically. But in a way, I wish Psychology was more Plutonic, and lessairy. Although an airsign myselfk, (with a AoIh) I missed the deeper levels in studying at university, and how I wish it would bepossible to be brave enough to combine depth psychology/astrology/academia in society, bridging the gap between those dried up
university speciments and the feeling/intuitive wisdom that now is banned from the grand halls of higher education..

"Psychology classes show a bunch of Aquarians, heaps of Geminis and a big deal of Libras". I didn't know that
I 'm A in l, g rising, D mC ink. Also O in the 1st in h.
I also want to write a thesis based on Jung's theory. It's just unbelievable how brave he was to talk about thesethings... As you see it's so difficult even nowadays... Getting out of the mass has always been the only way tomake a difference thoughrookish and bibbe Psychology is NOT a social science. Some of it's branches only are related to social sciences.
Don't mess things up. Of course there a number of paths to follow. I did a masters degree in Human Resources
Management, but then I felt I have nothing in common with this world and studied Neuroscience (yes, atprestigious universities, I don't see the reason to go to rubbish ones
) just to discover that neither thiswas in line with my true personality. So I realized I am a traditional psychologist, I love analyzing people and I
can do nothing to change that. I may realized it a bit late, my GmMC has brought me very many serious
problems, but... as F. Nietzsche said "become who you are".
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Re: Psychology« Reply #38 - on: 22.11.2012 at 15:31 [UT] »rookish and bibbe Psychology is NOT a social science. Some of it's branches only are related to social sciences.
Don't mess things up. Of course there a number of paths to follow. I did a masters degree in Human Resources
Management, but then I felt I have nothing in common with this world and studied Neuroscience (yes, atprestigious universities, I don't see the reason to go to rubbish ones
) just to discover that neither thiswas in line with my true personality. So I realized I am a traditional psychologist, I love analyzing people and I
can do nothing to change that. I may realized it a bit late, my GmMC has brought me very many serious
problems, but... as F. Nietzsche said "become who you are".
[/quote]Hi,
And sorry to go further with what I first was a comment from me. But wanted to make some corrections, hope
you dont mind?
...It depends of what is your object how your approach your study.
And it depends on how "pure" you keep your study on the object and what tools you use.
But it is not a social sciense.
I have also taken a course in human management... but it is not humanism but uses tools from f.ex psychology

I didn´t take Rookish reply as she was claiming her loving subject of social scienses is psychology, either was
my attemp to claim that. But you share the methodology with many scienses and seek f.ex archetypes (Jung).
You can deepen your studies using almost any sciense in your folklore studies. Hah! Here we get k! Free
thinking...
My main interest lied in Rookish collection of collagues with shared signs and it was why I wanted tocomment.
If interested... and I said the subect is in many ways missunderstod by those who don´t know the subject
http://www.afsnet.org/?page=WhatIsFolklore
Bibbe
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Re: Psychology« Reply #39 - on: 23.11.2012 at 18:34 [UT] »Thanks Bibbe, regards from my E in c in the 9thThis thread started as scorpionic and turned out as aquarian.
Interesting indeed, idealistic ks are all over the place
We are not alone...
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Re: Psychology« Reply #40 - on: 24.11.2012 at 09:49 [UT] »Threads go in many directions and no one person owns them.
I offered a view of a course in social sciences with the context and talked about the choices people makebecause, although an aside, it seemed to have some relevance given the blanket claim about air signs attending
psychology and h practices it. Personally I work, teach and research in a multidisciplinary academic arena
which combines anthropology, sociology, psychology, economics, biology etc, so I see the links between
psychology and social sciences and sciences rather than a single disconnected discipline. I'm with Bion on thepsychology of individuals and groups.
Posts: 3675

GoldFish - interested in your term that GmMC makes you what you are. We view astrology differently as I only
see astrology as an indicator of energies available not as a definitive predictor of outcome. That's a variance in
psychology to be pondered.
Bibbe - yes, I thought it was interesting (hence the aside) and I am glad that you took it in that spirit.
Interesting the ke connections.

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Re: Psychology« Reply #41 - on: 24.11.2012 at 14:53 [UT] »rookish who said that my G makes me what I am? It's just your opinion.
I see we don't agree on anything

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Re: Psychology« Reply #42 - on: 24.11.2012 at 22:50 [UT] »Quote from GoldFish on 24.11.2012 at 14:53 [UT]:rookish who said that my

G makes me what I am? It's just your opinion.

I see we don't agree on anything

Quote:
my

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GmMC has brought me very many serious problems,

Not my opinion, your words. And as I pointed out, yes variance in psychology......

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Re: Psychology« Reply #43 - on: 28.11.2012 at 16:24 [UT] »Quote from rookish on 22.11.2012 at 10:21 [UT]:
Quote from Lisel on 21.11.2012 at 18:45 [UT]:
I studied psychology for several yrs, hoping it would open the magical gate to the subconscious, only to discover that grandtheory (as astrology), Jung, and even Freud (as dealing with theories not able to be falsified by Popper's Theory of
Science, we're banned in university. My dream was to combine it with astrology, but...I held on for 4 yrs, but got so
depleted in that I felt I had to do playacting in the end to find it exciting with all those seethroughtests, marginal research
about f. ex 'Do kid's of abusive alcoholics suffer from anxiety/problems in adult life' etc. Yes, of course they do!? But isthat really breakthrough science?! We all, at least if we could emphathize, knew that? Jung was totally bannished, I tried

Posts: 776
Gender:to write a thesis inspired by him, but got grounded. This was in Copenhagen.
Astrologically, I believe that Scorpio as a deep, feeling sign, does not really have the affinity with psychology, you would
have thought. Even Liz Greene states in 'Love Relations' that Psychology classes show a bunch of Aquarians, heaps ofGeminis and a big deal of Libras. That is because the airsigns need to grasp the map of the psyche. I believe doctors andespecially Psychiatrist on the other hand are more tenanted by a Scorpio emphasis. I do think it has to do with the earthy
shadowsign of Taurus, and Biology of the mind, thus using medication, whilst Aquarius with it's shadow Leo is morek, (with
AoIh) I missed the deeper levels in studying at university, and how I wish it would be possible to be brave enough toidealistic, basically. But in a way, I wish Psychology was more Plutonic, and less airy. Although an airsign myselfacombine depth psychology/astrology/academia in society, bridging the gap between those dried up university speciments
and the feeling/intuitive wisdom that now is banned from the grand halls of higher education..

Interesting. How much of your experience is a product of place and level of education do you think? ie what is the academic focus of theinsitituion, what is its history in its approach to this specific field, what are the specialisms, where are the expertise and secondly are wetalking undergraduate, post graduate or doctoral studies that are so restricting in following interesting paths?
Seems to me that thoseh doctors have to go through the classes alongside the air types to get their qualifications - if h isn't there,

they don't get the qualifications and don't practice. So what does this say about the observation that psych classes are full of air signs?
Seems likely that the course is populated by both and what they do with it later is what may be different....
Having said that - I did my Masters degree at a prestigious university in social and political sciences. Of the 32 culturally diverse people onthat course, 18 had

k A, 5 were e A, 4 were h A and the other 5 were scattered - yes simplistic astrology. I wonder if the choice ofinstitution itself was as much an influence in course membership as the actual discipline. The solidity, intellectual status and recognition of
the instituition for academic excellence being important to fixed signs in choice of institution alongside the social science aspects which are

k. Ah complexity of context and causation.

Oh, I meant Medical Doctors, MD's, not PhD's, sorry, English is not my primary language, sometimes I put
things down a bitquick and fuzzy (CoI/ CnF)
Unbelievable that you had 18/32 kA in that class, but social and political science fits in with sign, surely.
Interesting with the fixed signs predominant (minus b).
Oh and me and my blurry mind, I gave you the wrong source, it is in Liz Greenes book about Starsigns in Love
she wrote this about the airsigns! And it fits, doesn't it, you conceptualise the Psyche in psychology, it is in
psychotherapy you use manipulation, and probing in a good sense (more of h there I believe).
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Re: Psychology« Reply #44 - on: 05.02.2014 at 02:24 [UT] »Hello everybody,Thanks for all the interesting inputs, especially from the learned Aquarian friends, who are able to put theinvisible emotional and psychic forces into words for the inarticulate Scorpio.
Posts: 222

Many decades ago, I decided to have my own program of study because the formal curriculum on Philosophy
and Psychology do not tell me what I want to know.
(I allotted one year to each of the ten divisions on the Dewey Decimal Classification of the library. I read
textbooks in the manner that others read newspapers, aided by the South Node in Gemini ninth house. )They argue about things that are of no use to me, about history and personalities, and discoveries. One lecturer
noted: We are not interested in what you think, but what past philosophers think. Only after you havereproduced what they think, would we consider what you think. It is boring to read works with footnotes andcommentaries before I can go into what a writer thinks for himself. The writer simply has no personal opinion
other than what he reads. It is a waste of time and life to read them.
What I want to know is very simple. I was born. What is the best use of this life, this time, this hour, this day?
When do I die? How do I die?
It is interesting that psychology classes are populated with Air signs, but then All intellectual studies are ofinterest to the Air signs, even though they do not know what they are talking about. Scientists argue about
things that they cannot see in the Air, the Oxygen and Nitrogen and the Argon. Clare Martin, President of theFaculty of Astrological studies, Jungian psychologist, wrote about the dichotomy of Water and Air signs.
As a Libra rising, I note her comments on a Libra husband. The wife noted that the Libra husband wanted tobuy a new computer. Libra collects a lot of information on the pros and cons of different models but does nottake any action. In the end, Libra just goes for the cheapest computer. Air thinks about it, argues about it, but
Water feels it and does it without the rationalising.
Joy of the arguments of Air Libra,
Thomas.

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Re: Psychology« Reply #45 - on: 05.02.2014 at 02:26 [UT] »Grant Lewi wrote about what Scorpio behaviour appears to him: The dualism of Scorpio makes it a baffling
sign, for the Scorpio combines materialism with spirituality. He is the world, the flesh and the devil, and also
the spirit that renounces them. He is full of zest of life, which however is meaningful only after he has added aunique, almost mystic, significance.
Posts: 222

The search for inner values, for the key to the riddle of self, or world, of life itself, is Scorpio’s basic motivation,and his search, whether it takes him to spiritual heights or into the darkest of subconscious depths, is always
intense. To him, life is real, life is earnest and the grave is not its goal. Scorpio takes himself, his work, his
ideals, seriously and insists that others do the same. Yet, at the same time, he is aware of the fleetingness of it,
the futility of it, and the smallness of it.
Luxurious and extravagant in his tastes, he lacks interest in making money because when he calls on his
maximum powers, they lead him to non-commercial fields.
Part of the secret of Scorpio is the simplicity with which he accepts the merger of the material and the spiritual.
He relates all problems of life to a standard of intangibles that is unknown to other men, achieves a practicalanswer in terms of his unconscious doctrine of the worlds.
Other authors often note the preoccupation of Scorpio with the issues of death, and Linda Goodman evensuggested that they know the secrets of birth and death, and of course sex and reproduction.
This journey of psychic changes is to allow Scorpio friends to see the thoughts (Air) of psychologists andbiologists regarding these observations of the astrologers.
Desmond Morris allows us to see the biological behaviours of the animals in all of us, as seen in the mob
behaviours all over the world today, with the Cardinal Grand Cross in the Sky. If we see humans as animals,then we personally have no psychological problems. Scorpios accept that we are animals and we are behaving
as animals, not civilised saints with codes of conduct. We feed, we fight, we flee and we fornicate as animals do.
We group together and go against another group as animals do. There is no rationalising (Air) of the animal
behaviour as right or wrong, moral or immoral. This is what we, and what others are. There is no psychologicalproblem, which are problems created when we think we know better as gentle men or ladies.
Freud shows us the animal instincts and the powerful creative force of the sexual motivation, to fornicate andreproduce the species of naked apes. There is nothing right or wrong, moral or immoral about these nature
forces inside us and in other animals. When we put values on how these nature forces should not be, then wecreate a psychological problem for ourselves.
Jung shows us that there is something finer than our animal motivations, something that is unconscious and iscollective. Here we have the ideals of a gentle man or lady, who is better and more moral than the animals that
we are. We are more considerate of others, not only our own needs. Jung also noted that we are part of agroup mind and act as a group. His life work on his own psyche is to separate his individual mind from thisgroup mind, collective mind, the group behaviour of the pack of animals, the nation, the culture and thegender or race, or social stratification.
Maslow tells us that there are people who are healthy and do not need to see a psychologist or read about
psychology. There are people who are successful and not laden with problems. There are people who are richand do not need to labour for a living. There are people who are born into positions of power and royalty. They
also have Saturn in their charts and Saturn is not a problem to these people. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are
not problems to these people.
Bucke tells us, more than 100 years ago, that there are people who are very healthy and that this cosmic
consciousness is a natural growth of the intellect and moral from self consciousness. It is the growth of theintellectual percept to recept, the recept to the concept, and the concept to the supra concept.
Personally, I am a student of the Occult studies rather than psychology. Though I am versed in Electronics
Engineering, I have never seen an electron, or even an atom, a molecule. I have never seen an electric field or
magnetic field but we can transmit and receive invisible, occult, forces (which we call waves for convenience)and transduce them into sounds and sights, pictures on the Tele-vision screen. We can even calculate withmathematical precision on the range of frequency of these invisible forces, these invisible vibrations of theelectro-magnetic fields.
Why am I moved by the invisible forces to transmit this message of the Messenger? Perhaps, it is the re-visit ofMercury Retrograde or the return of Saturn to its own place, the ending of one Saturn life and the start ofanother Saturn life.
Your Scorpio receiver and transmitter, Messenger,
Thomas.

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Re: Psychology« Reply #46 - on: 11.09.2014 at 01:13 [UT+1] »The Practice of Astrology, by Dane Rudhyar, in 1968
Dane Rudhyar was a student of Occult Studies DDC 130, with Astrology DDC 133 as a part of the studies. He
wrote about the concept of Supreme Being and quoted Hindu philosophers and yogis for his arguments.
Posts: 222

Cycles of Changes, Natural Cycles%% Transits vs. Birth Chart
Rudhyar looked at two broad concepts.
Firstly, the world of changes is an ordered realm of universal activity. Motion, or changes, is inherently
periodical or cyclic and predictable. It is as predictable as the weather, which is not always easy to predict, but isconsidered predictable.
Secondly, if we know how to define cycles properly, we would see that each cycle is the life span of one specific
type of entity retaining specific characteristics, biological, or psycho-spiritual, during the entire cycle or period.
Based on the second concept, or idea, every person can realise himself as a permanent identity during this life
span of the cycle, and ceases that identity at the end of that cycle or period of time. The person, the self, theidentity, remains the same for that cycle of time.
There is a Supreme Being, God, who does not change with the cycles of changes.
Man is identical in essence with this Supreme Being, or God.
He could bestride cycles and know his self as divine, if he follows the characteristics, or nature, of this Supreme
Being. In modern concepts, it is for the mind and body to follow the Laws of Physics, the Laws of Biology (LifeStudy), the Laws of Psychology and the Laws of Chemistry. Or, in general, the mind and body abide by the lawsof Nature Forces, or the Tao of the Taoists.
The Astrological birth chart represents a permanent identity for the life span of the birth to its death. As notedin the Bhagavad Gita, “Death is inevitable to those who are born. The wise do not grieve over that which isinevitable.”
The birth chart does not change, but the world changes. The integrity of the birth chart should be maintained
against the pressure of the universe of changes (Nature). Astrologers call these changes transits.
A transit is the focused manifestation of the unending pressure applied by nature upon the natal, archetypal
structure of our selfhood. It pits the changes in the ephemeris against the static hour of birth of the horoscope.

All transits unbalance the basic self. We have to meet them, respond to the stimuli of Nature, and regain adynamic equilibrium, to express what the birth seed, DNA, chart shows the tree, the flower and the fruit to be.

%% Techniques of transits with cyclic wholeThis is the consideration of transits of each moving planet and its meaning through the four quadrants and thetwelve houses as a whole process of changes from seed to tree and flower and fruit, rather than a stand-alone
incident or accident. The present event, change, is the effect of an action taken in the past and forgotten, andlinked to that cause, that past, that incident.
If the entire 30-year cycle of the Saturn transit around the fixed natal chart is plotted, the critical periods, crisis
points, turning points of life, will be discovered as it passes from quadrant to quadrant, from house to house,
and triggering each natal planet in opposition, in square or conjunction.
The Saturn energy, and what it represents to the astrologer, grows and matures in the 30-year period and one
life span, acting upon and change the natal seed to the tree and its fruits. Saturn represents different meanings
to the infant, the young body, the young boy, the man in society and the old man awaiting his end.

%% Transit of Saturn
Jupiter and Saturn define the person’s place and participation in a Society, in a group, in a life that is greaterthan his individual needs.
The three Saturn cycles represent three successive polarisation of a person’s self, identity, at the three basic
levels of selfhood:
Biological ……

Psycho-mental …

and Spiritual.

At the first level, Saturn represents the relationship of the self to the physical father,at the second level (30 to 59), Saturn represents the individual self and relationship of self to Society,at the third level (59 to 88), Saturn represents the divine father, the relationship of the self to the universe.
Saturn is the type of security which corresponds to the reliance of the self upon the physical father in the firstcycle,

the reliance upon his own self in relation to Society in the second cycle,
and the reliance of the self upon God, the divine Father in the third cycle.
These three types may obviously be felt at any time, but each of them is normally emphasised during thecorresponding life cycle, the age timing. Each cycle of Saturn represents the birth of one type of energy, its
growth, and its fruition or death.
Saturn leaving the second return in October, entering the third life span of Saturn with the invisible forces of
Nature’s unceasing changes from birth to death (Buddhists call it Anicca),
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Re: Psychology« Reply #47 - on: 11.09.2014 at 01:59 [UT+1] »Appreciating the timing of this last post. Thanks Thomas. I shall look forward to re-reading the rest of thethread sometime.

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Re: Psychology« Reply #48 - on: 12.03.2015 at 13:38 [UT] »Cosmic Consciousness, by Richard M Bucke, in 1901
Bucke wrote about his psychological experience and then went on to study others who had this experience to agreater extent.
Posts: 222

Bucke was born of a good middle class English stock and grew up almost without education on a backwoods
Canadian farm. He tended to the cattle and ran errands. His pleasures were simple.
In his 36th year, he and two friends spent the evening reading Wordsworth, Shelley, Keats and Whitman, whom
he admired. His mind was calm and peaceful, in a state of passive enjoyment.
All at once, without warning, he found himself engulfed in a cloud of flame. He knew that the light was withinhimself. There came to him a sense of exultation, immense joy, accompanied by intellectual illumination.
He felt a drop of Brahmic Bliss. He saw and knew that the cosmos is not dead matter but a living presence. The
soul of man is immortal. The universe tends towards goodness and the foundation principle of the world is
love.
He learned more in a few seconds than in his years of study.
The illumination itself continued for only a few moments, but the effects proved ineffaceable.
There was no return to that experience.
This was an initiation to the new and higher order of ideas. It was only an introduction.
Bucke then spent his life to research on those who had this psychological awareness to a greater extent.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Cosmic consciousness is a higher form of consciousness than that possessed by ordinary men. This last is called
self consciousness.
There are three forms or grades of consciousness:

simple consciousness

possessed by the upper half of the animal kingdom.
Self consciousness possessed by humans.
Cosmic consciousness is the consciousness of the life and order andchanges of the universe.
This work, book, is to broaden the general view of human life and the psychology of those with this awareness.
Along with the consciousness of the cosmos, there occurs an intellectual enlightenment which places theindividual on a new plane of existence, almost a member of a new species.
To this is added a state of moral exaltation, of indescribable feeling of elation, elevation and joy. There is aquickening of the moral sense. There comes a sense of immortality, a consciousness of eternal life, not aconviction that he shall have this, but the consciousness that he has it already.
I will add the experiences of the Buddha and Jesus in further posts as researched and described by Bucke in his
book.
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ThomasMember« Reply #49 - on: 14.03.2015 at 00:41 [UT] »From Self Consciousness to Cosmic Consciousness

This cosmic consciousness has different names for those who experienced it.
Posts: 222

Buddha called it Nirvana. Jesus called it the Kingdom of God, or Kingdom of Heaven. Paul called it the Christ.
Mohammed called it Gabriel. Dante called it Beatrice. Balzac called it Specialism. Whitman called it My Soul.
Each person with the cosmic sense sees the same reality as another with it. Paul saw that the teachings of Jesus
were true. Mohammed accepted Jesus as the greatest of the prophets. Walt Whitman accepted the teachings of
Buddha, Jesus, Paul and Mohammed.
What happens, changes, when the man goes from self consciousness to cosmic consciousness?
1.

The person has a sense of being immersed in a flame.

2.
He is bathed in an emotion of joy, assurance, triumph and salvation.
3.
He receives an intellectual illumination. He has a clear conception of the meaning and drift of theuniverse. He has a conception of the Whole.
4.
5.

He has a sense of immortality.
The fear of death vanishes.

6.
7.

The sense of sin vanishes.
This change is instantaneous like a flash of lightning.

The passage from self consciousness to cosmic consciousness parallels the passage from animal simple
consciousness to human self consciousness.
There are two chief elements of change. One is the added consciousness and the other is an added faculty.
When an organism/ animal which possesses simple consciousness attains to self consciousness, it becomesaware for the first time that it is a separate creature/ self existing in a world which is apart from it. It knows
this intuitively without learning about it.
At the same time, it acquires enormously increased powers of accumulating knowledge and of initiating action.
When the person with self consciousness enters cosmic consciousness, he knows intuitively without learningthat the universe is not dead but a living presence. He knows that the essence is infinitely good. He knows that
individual existence is continuous beyond death.
At the same time, he takes on enormously greater capacity for learning and initiating.
This parallel holds also from the point of view of the moral nature.
The animal with simple consciousness cannot know the pure delight of simply living that is possessed by thehealthy human. This feeling depends on self consciousness and without that can have no existence. The horseor dog enjoys life while experiencing an agreeable external sensation or when stimulated by an agreeable
external activity. It cannot realise the everyday inner calm that is independent of the senses, the external
stimuli.
Corresponding with this moral ascent is the happiness that is enjoyed by the cosmic conscious sense. Nirvana isfelt as the highest happiness. The Hindu devotee, whose happiness is within himself, obtains the Brahmic bliss.
Edward Carpenter’s “All sorrow finished,” “the deep ocean of joy within,” “Being filled with joy.” Walt Whitman
wrote, “I am satisfied – I see, I dance, laugh and sing.” “Wandering, amazed at my own lightness and glee.””O
the joy of my spirit.”
It must not be supposed that the man with cosmic consciousness is omniscient and infallible. As a man withself consciousness can sink in morals and intelligence below the higher animal, so can the man with cosmic
consciousness be nothing more than the self conscious man.
This is the observation and theory of Bucke on the evolution of consciousness from the self to cosmic
consciousness and the observable measurements of the transformations in moral and in intellect.
It is actually the transformation to a new species.
In the Buddhist description of the Arahat, they no longer reborn in the human form and live in the formlessenergy without human form. It appears to me, that we humans are that transition from the consciousness withform (human) to the consciousness (being) without form.
We are the missing link in the evolutionary theory of Darwin. When we become enlightened, we are no more.
We no longer exist. Buddhists call it Anatta. In Astrology, this is the twelfth house issue of self undoing, self
dissolution, or self transcendence, or cosmic consciousness.
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Re: Psychology« Reply #50 - on: 17.06.2016 at 04:25 [UT+1] »Sun rules Leo in every chart, and this happens to be in the 11th house for this Libra rising. Hence, thisradiation of the Sun to the eleventh house of group consciousness is manifested.
I will continue with my formula for the evolution of consciousness, the evolution of the species.
Posts: 222

I will expand on the three Saturn cycles of Rudhyar.
As animal, it feeds the body. The body grows. The body matures. The body reproduces through other bodies
for the animal species. The body decays and dies.
As a human consciousness, it feeds the consciousness, or mind. the mind grows. The mind matures. The mind
reproduces through other minds, other bodies, in the form of communication through books, through writing,through speeches, and through social relationships.
All personal consciousness, individual consciousness, are parts of the collective consciousness, the universe
consciousness, the society consciousness. We receive the thoughts of other Astrologers, sustain these thoughts,
modify these thoughts, and reproduce these thoughts to other consciousness of the Astrology consciousness,the collective consciousness.
As an immortal soul, it feeds the soul. The soul grows. The soul matures. The soul reproduces through othersouls in cosmic consciousness, without bodies, without words, without thoughts.
The soul is an inaccurate description of emptiness, nothingness, all-ness, and the reader is invited to use his
own description, his own concept. theosophists call it the causal body.
Your fellow sojourner,
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #51 - on: 17.06.2016 at 04:48 [UT+1] »Invisible Laws of the Universe
I use these occult thoughts, consciousness, for myself.
Posts: 222

Law of Mentalism divides into the Law of Polarity.
Law of Polarity unites into the Law of Material Phenomena, or Incarnation.
A fuller rendition is as follows:
Law of Mentalism: All things are of one Mind, the same Mind.
Law of Correspondence: All phenomena correspond to different planes of manifestations of energy as thespiritual/ Fire, the intellectual/ Air, the emotional/ Water, and the physical/ Earth planes of energy. All four
principal forms of energy are inseparable as one energy in Mentalism, undifferentiated.
Law of Vibrations: Every phenomenon, manifestation has a different rate of vibration.
Law of Polarity: The unity of Mentalism is polarized into positive and negative, yang and yin. Consciousness,
awareness, is due to this distinction, this separation, between the positive and negative. Energy flows from thepositive pole to the negative pole to reach an equilibrium.
Law of Cycle: Changes in the material manifestation are repetitive.. They start and polarize and return to thestarting point. Astrology uses this law.
Law of Causation: All things have a source, a seed and a fruit, an end. All events, changes, have a beginningand an end. Physics uses this law.
Law of material phenomena, or incarnation: The unity of the positive and negative creates a new compound, a
new consciousness, a new being.
this is a rough rendition of the laws that I use for myself. It is quite different from other users of the same
concepts and I have no issue with them, and hope they can find this interpretation of use to them.
Aristotle classified thinking into three forms:
Productive thinking .... Practical thinking ... and Theoretical thinking
Productive thinking is putting thoughts into material forms, the incarnation of thoughts into matter.
Theoretical thinking is taking thoughts out of material forms, the detachment of thoughts from matter, fromthe body. It is the consciousness without form, without body.
I will not engage with the details for those who are unfamiliar with these ideas. It only serves as a reminder tofellow students of Occult Studies, theosophy, Rosicrucianism, Alchemy, and other Hindu, Indian and Chinese
philosophies.
For others, it is better to treat them as superstitious beliefs of the ignorant, and not waste time, waste life, inarguing against them.
South Node Gemini 19* (square transiting Node and Jupiter in Virgo), A large archaic volume reveals a
traditional wisdom,
North Node in third house, a Messenger,
Thomas.

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Matrika Matters
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Re: Psychology« Reply #52 - on: 17.06.2016 at 05:14 [UT+1] »Interesting Thomas, Thank you for this work you are doing and posting.
I haven't read the whole thread...have flu and am intending to come back later to do so (when I am more clear
headed). So I hope I am not repeating something said earlier or off on the wrong track. If so, apologies.

Posts: 7405

Quote:We are the missing link in the evolutionary theory of Darwin. When we become enlightened, we are no more. We no longer exist.
Buddhists call it Anatta. In Astrology, this is the twelfth house issue of self undoing, self dissolution, or self transcendence, or cosmic
consciousness.

The description of the 12H as "self undoing" implies that is an erosion of well being, however, in the sense ofenlightenment or cosmic consciousness it is an enhancement and a development...unravelling the constructs ishard work and not within easy grasp of most of us. When I first was learning astrology from a delightful Frenchlady in Hong Kong...that description was a sticking point in the classes as I and a friend took on thisinterpretation as very limited and somewhat nonsensical in the sense of development as something sought andpracticed that moves through one's life with the houses representing different areas of focus on the way.
Enlightened Buddhists exist, and the references don't imply they no longer exist (afa i know)...they just do nothave an individual ego in the western sense of how we define our existence...their awareness is more collective
than individual, as I understand the theory. They are more plugged into what Jung called the collective
unconscious and they are also able to access and work with their consciousness in ways that those of us lesspracticed and disciplined are unable to do. The old texts have very specific exercises and levels of mind thatastonish modern psychologists when they come across them.
Thats where I came across the word
matrika...which means the specific level of mind where sound becomes word. We do not have these words ormeanings in English because we have not (generally) explored our minds in such detail, with such focussed
attention.
The Dalai Lama may be a well known example of what you are referring to I believe.
Anatta is very different than the western constructs referring to individual souls. Specifically, the teaching isthat does not exist. But it doesn't imply non existence, just a different conception of existence and "selfconcept".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatta
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&profile=default&am
p;fulltext=Search&search=Anatta&searchToken=6cg5ray0gq2hhomy6abnntgnk
Chogyam Trungpa who introduced Tibetan Buddhism to America (and wrote a lot of books) strongly wished for
it to be categorized and studied as psychology not as "religion". Unfortunately that didn't happen and there area lot of misunderstandings as a result, due to the way we westerners conceive "religion". At root, Buddhist
practice is a way to know your own mind, that is the entire basis and intention of the practice.
« Last Edit: 18.06.2016 at 02:43 [UT+1] by Matrika Matters

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Matrika Matters

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Re: Psychology« Reply #53 - on: 19.06.2016 at 02:27 [UT+1] »This talk on "self" maybe relevant from John Barter, a psychologist who lived for some years as a Budhist monkin the Thai Forest tradition. He's very clear.
http://www.wellawareness.com.au/wisdom-talks-1-turning-down-and-turning-off-self /Posts: 7405

And the whole series of talks.
http://www.wellawareness.com.au/podcasts/

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geminifish
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Re: Psychology« Reply #54 - on: 19.06.2016 at 05:30 [UT+1] »Isn't any sign "the urge to identify with one's source"? Why privilege scorpio? If you want to say it comes out
more in certain signs I'd definitely include cancer and pisces as well.

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #55 - on: 03.02.2018 at 05:55 [UT] »Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy published a book in 1997, entitled "The Hermetica, the lost wisdom of thepharaohs."
The authors wrote:
Posts: 222

The Hermetica is a cornerstone of Western culture. In substance and importance, it is equal to well-known
Eastern scriptures like the Upanishads, the Dhammapada and the Tao Te Ching.
At the heart of Hermes' teachings is one simple idea --- God is a Big Mind.
Everything that exists is a thought of the Mind of God. Hermes describes the mind of God as the Oneness which
unites everything.
This Oneness contains all opposites.
Hermes teaches that the mind of a human is made in the image of God's Big Mind.
if we can free our mind from the limitations imposed by the physical body, we can experience the mind of God.
We were created with the specific purpose of learning to do so. this freedom of the mind from the physicalbody is the spiritual goal of human life.
Pure philosophy is spiritual striving, through constant contemplation, to attain the True Knowledge of the OneGod.
It is noted that a life of philosophy was often a leisured life of the rich and learned in India, China, or Egypt
when most people were illiterate and unschooled.
They were the philosophy and psychology of the elites, the pharaohs, the kings, the rulers. They were
instructions for the princes who had everything, riches and power, and influence.
Timothy Freke has a degree in philosophy and is a student of world spiritual thought and practice, andinstructed by masters from different traditions. He authored the Tao Te Ching (1995).
Peter Gandy is a researcher into the roots of the Western mystery tradition. He spent many years studyng thephilosophy of Hermes Trismegistus.

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ganglion
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Re: Psychology« Reply #56 - on: 03.02.2018 at 12:21 [UT] »Well timed: Reply #55 - on: Today at 05:55 [UT+0]
Quote from Thomas on 03.02.2018 at 05:55 [UT]:Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy published a book in 1997, entitled "The Hermetica, the lost wisdom of the pharaohs."

May I suggest The Jesus Mysteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jesus_Mysteries
Quote:The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God? is a 1999 book by British authors Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy.[2] The
Jesus Mysteries is an investigation of early Christianity prior to the 4th century CE, when direct political intervention by the Roman
Emperor Constantine forced various competing Christian sects to unify under a statement of faith (the Nicene Creed).
Freke and Gandy claim to have examined evidence from ancient Mediterranean and Near Eastern civilisations, and to have found importantparallels of Jesus' divinity with a number of mystery religions, such as those of the ancient gods Osiris, Dionysus, Attis, and Mithras,
apparently manifestations of a single cult of a dying and rising "godman" myth, known to classical scholarship as Osiris-Dionysus.
The authors propose that Jesus did not literally exist as an historically identifiable individual, but was instead a syncretic re-interpretationof the fundamental pagan "godman" by the Gnostics, who were the original sect of Christianity. Orthodox Christianity, according to them,
was not the predecessor to Gnosticism, but a later outgrowth that rewrote history in order to make literal Christianity appear to predate
the Gnostics. They describe their theory as the "Jesus Mysteries thesis."

The Jesus Myth - Timothy Freke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg
Quote:
Comment by Brammy007a
Jesus is myth..... but the Flying Spaghetti Monster (pasta be upon Him) is real. All hail the First Flour.... the Magnificent Macaroni.... betouched by his noodly goodness.﻿

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Re: Psychology« Reply #57 - on: 03.02.2018 at 12:30 [UT] »what an incredible amount of sources! many thanks Thomas for starting such a rich thread, please don't stop~

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Roland303
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Re: Psychology« Reply #58 - on: 04.02.2018 at 22:07 [UT] »Quote from Thomas on 03.01.2012 at 04:03 [UT]:Desmond Morris’ “Naked Ape” attracted me to understand my behaviour from a more fundamental level, at the crude and raw level ofnatural forces that move me unconsciously.

I was just watching a documentary about wolves and there was this mama wolf giving birth to 6 little wolves...
and I thought of this topic. The little wolves, as soon as they came out of the mama's womb, already knew
where to get their food, with blind eyes and without any experience of the world! They reached for the titties ofthe mother and got the first milk out of life... ain't this amazing?
Posts: 1244

Obviously the same happens for every little baby in the world, but more so for animals that are somewhat more
independent and already walk on their feet as soon as they're born... but human babies already know how tocry, how to get the attention from their environment, how to make the world around them revolve aroundthem, in order to fulfill their needs/dreams...
Biology (=life) is so much about (unconscious) programming that it's not too farfetched to think something
greater is going on...

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #59 - on: 24.03.2018 at 07:01 [UT] »Quote from Roland303 on 03.02.2018 at 12:30 [UT]:
what an incredible amount of sources! many thanks Thomas for starting such a rich thread, please don't stop~

Posts: 222

good that you like this thread with the journey of psychology from the animal to a human member of society
and the individuation as a member of the universe. I use it for my own understanding of my life and how best
to use this life and time.
I am not at home with my books and there is a good book to read on the "Great Disciples of the Buddha",which wrote about his chief disciples and early arahant disciples. They were mostly of the elite Brahmin caste inIndia, rich and learned young men. An arahant does not die nor is he born.
Here the book described the ability of the Buddha and his disciples to foretell the death of their physical bodies
and the recall of past lives together.
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Catsratz
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Re: Psychology« Reply #60 - on: 24.03.2018 at 14:39 [UT] »Quote from Roland303 on 04.02.2018 at 22:07 [UT]:The little wolves, as soon as they came out of the mama's womb, already knew where to get their food, with blind eyes and without any
experience of the world! They reached for the titties of the mother and got the first milk out of life... ain't this amazing?
Obviously the same happens for every little baby in the world, but more so for animals that are somewhat more independent and alreadywalk on their feet as soon as they're born... but human babies already know how to cry, how to get the attention from their environment,
how to make the world around them revolve around them, in order to fulfill their needs/dreams...
Biology (=life) is so much about (unconscious) programming that it's not too farfetched to think something greater is going on...

I've noticed, and have been amazed, that even microbes and plant life usually seem to know just exactly what
to do and seldom deviate from a fixed pattern. Humans, too, have a lot more pre-programing by nature thanmost would like to admit to.
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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #61 - on: 20.07.2018 at 12:04 [UT+1] »Psychology DDC150 is a sub-set of Philosophy DDC100.
We will introduce the philosophy of Aristotle through Mortimer J Adler in "Aristotle for Everybody," published in
1989, first published in 1978.
Posts: 222

Philosophical arguments are very tedious and boring stuff for those who have much time on their hands. It isreally difficult to extract the essence of Adler's thoughts and I will settle for what I like about this book.
Socrates, Plato's teacher, said that an unexamined life is not worth living.
Aristotle, Plato's student, added that an unplanned life is not worth examining.
Human activities have three dimensions. They are making, doing and knowing. They have three different kindsof thinking, productive thinking, practical thinking, and theoretical thinking, or speculative thinking.
These three dimensions address the values of the beautiful, the good and the true, Beauty, Goodness, Truth Air
Libra values or ideals.
Man the Maker, Productive Thinker____________________________
In making something, producing something, four questions have to be asked and answered.
1) What is it going to be made of? This is the material cause of production, or making something.
2) Who made it? This is the efficient cause, the mind, the thought, that is making the changes to the material,
the raw material.
3) What is it that is being made? This is the formal cause, or the form the material is going to take shape.
4) What is it being made for? This is the final cause, the purpose for making this form out of the material.
Productive thinking is putting the thought, the idea, into making a material form. It is the incarnation of themind, the thought, into matter, material form.
Man the Doer, Practical Thinker_________________________
What is the best use of this life, this time, this life energy?
How can I attain this best life?
Aristotle thinks that you must have a plan for living in order to live well, to have a good life. He also thinks thatyou must have a right plan, his plan, and all other plans to live well are wrong.
if you adopt the wrong plan to live, you will not be able to live well, to have a good life.
(As a diversion into Buddhist philosophy, the right plan of the Buddha leads to happiness, a good life, to living
well. All other plans lead to suffering, strife and dissatisfaction.)
To live well, we need to have physical health and a moderate amount of external goods or wealth. These are thephysical needs for animal survival. On top of that, we need to have psychological goods, goods for the psyche,for the soul. These are emotional needs of belonging, to love and be loved by other humans. We also need tohave goods for the mind, knowledge and understanding, know-how and skills to get things done.
The good life is a satisfaction of all these physical, emotional and mental goods.
Practical thinking is putting the ideals, the thoughts, the mind into human behaviour, emotional states thatdrive the physical body. Action is needed for practical thinking to manifest as a good life.
Man the Knower, Theoretical Thinker_____________________________
Aristotle classified knowing into five groups.
1) Self evident truth through personal experience.
2) Opinions from mathematical conclusions.
3) Opinions from scientific observations and generalisations.
4) Opinions from philosophical arguments from common sense experiences.
5) Opinions about particular facts from historical research.
There is only one truth, the self-evident truth of personal experience.
The other four are opinions in the sense that they are never firmly established by reasons and evidence thatthey cannot be falsified or corrected by further thought or new observations.
Yet they are also knowledge in the sense that they have the weight of evidence and the supporting reasons,arguments, remain unchallenged for now.
Theoretical thinking is taking the idea out of the material form. It is the thought without material form, or thetransmutation of material objects into intellectual concepts, transmutation of emotional behaviour into
intellectual concepts.
Theoretical thinking is conceptual thinking, thinking with thoughts, thinking without physical forms.

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ThomasMember

Re: Psychology« Reply #62 - on: 20.07.2018 at 12:11 [UT+1] »I have started this thread in 2011, seven years ago, with the stated bias for the Scorpio mindset and cautionthat the language is in this Scorpio manner.
I learn from the best specimens of the human species as described by Abraham Maslow and Richard Bucke.
Posts: 222

I can say that I have a good life and share my experiences with you.
A Blessed Old Man at transiting Uranus in Taurus square natal Uranus in Leo,
retired into the good life at the first Saturn Return.
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Rhythm9

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Re: Psychology« Reply #63 - on: 23.07.2018 at 06:24 [UT+1] »Thank you for sharing your reflections Thomas. I have only just read your posts despite them having been
written in 2011
Transit Bi now exactly m natal Ii so you had me at 'Cosmic Consciousness'
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Silenus
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Re: Psychology« Reply #64 - on: 23.07.2018 at 12:46 [UT+1] »Hi Thomas,
It is great to see such a neat summary of the History of Western Philosophy from an astrologicalpoint of view. You have the bones of a great thesis here. Just mix Egyptian Elementism, Roman Occultism andGreek Proto-Christianity together and bake at a high temperature for 2000 years, and there you have it, theastro cake,...... or is it the other way round? Maybe the cake was first.

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Linda Harris

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Re: Psychology« Reply #65 - on: 23.07.2018 at 17:14 [UT+1] »I'm not sure anyone mentioned this book; but my study of psychology within astrology would have never been
complete without reading and studying, "Psychological Astrology" by Karen Hamaker-Zontag.
(subtitled A Synthesis of Jungian Psychology and Astrology.)
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And actually accessible in the reading. Brilliant.
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Chantelle
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Re: Psychology« Reply #66 - on: 26.07.2018 at 02:22 [UT+1] »Thomas, this is an excellent thread...many years ago on this thread, you mentioned that you passed Freud by
RE: his take on Human Psychology. I could not agree with you more!

Posts: 1164
Gender:I always considered Feud to be a Fraud. Reasons? In extremely elementary terms, I felt that his belief(s) basedon the repression of sexual energies contributing to neurosis and every other human maladaptive behavior too
simplistic.
And, ever notice how some of his theories are based on the Asian precepts of the Charkas and the serpent
energy? Kundalini rising? Yes, what I am attempting to discuss is too simplistic for those more educated in thisarea of study....but I have a small feeling that you " might" see my point..perhaps?
Carl Jung is the gifted intuitive.....the genuine genius regarding Psychology AND Astrology, NOT Freud.
I tend to believe that Freud was jealous of Jung's mind and often tried to discredit Carl's work.
Freud was also very skilled as passive aggressive manipulation and very, very subtle gaslighting techniques.....
I have Jung's Red Book...read it once...taking time to assess, mentally, what he experienced in his own
personal abyss in truly "unpacking his own persona, his own soul."
It will take many reading to discover all the book has to offer.
I have had good fortune to live by Jung Institutes in a few cities of which I have resided. And have had thechance to take some small courses and programs.
Happy Birthday Carl Jung! July 26th.

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