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angst and serenity (Read 658 times)

CelineMemberangst and serenity« on: 17.05.2011 at 02:57 [UT+1] »Which house, sign or angle represents mental calm or mental strain?
I would say that Neptune is the planet of mental strain, which may come from always being confused

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Neptune transits, for example, seem to bring (to me at least) a felling of constant pressure, like somethingbothering me at the back of my mind that I can't quite pin down. But I also think that how relaxed or anxious
one is mentally can also be indicated by the IC, which affects one's feelings of security and therfore also one's
peace of mind. Malefic influences on this angle can bring feelings of panic and fear, whereas benefic influenceson the IC tend to act like balm to the soul.
Any other ideas?

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Bliss

Ex Member

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #1 - on: 17.05.2011 at 07:24 [UT+1] »Every planet has a positive and negative side. Maybe any planet can cause angst or serenity depending on how
you perceive and work with the energy it has.

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Linda Harris
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Re: angst and serenity« Reply #2 - on: 17.05.2011 at 19:16 [UT+1] »Your first sentence (the question) left something out.....ASPECT. And this is where I believe anxiety comesfrom. When by square, opposition or inconjunct 2 planets either natally or by transit, are at war with eachother in such a way that there is no - what word do I use....winner....closure...positive
result....relief.....resolution....
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Maybe resolution is the best word.....unresolved issues sit there like undigested food in one's stomach, only it'sin your mind and it becomes like mental indigestion!!
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wandering

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Re: angst and serenity« Reply #3 - on: 17.05.2011 at 22:01 [UT+1] »Another thing that can be looked at is the B, since it is the signifier of mind in the broad sense and of feelingsand emotions. If there are malefics conjunct or aspecting the B it could indicate psychological difficulties
including angst. I think the B situation will overrule benefics conjunct the IC, at least at certain time periods.
I use sidereal astrology and those aspect rules to determine malefic aspects to the B. For example, B in the
4th, 7th or 8th from E; B in the 3rd, 7th or 10th from G; B in the 5th or 9th from K. The conjunctions ofthese planets with the B as well.
I happen to have all the natural malefics either conjunct or aspecting the B through the sidereal system andwith no benefic aspects to the B, and I have D in a beneficial position on the IC and with a beneficial
planetary combination, but the Moon situation overrules the IC situation in my case (at certain times).
So this would be one aspect of this issue, from personal experience.
Although it may be the beneficial placements on the IC that have prevented me from saying "fuck it, time tosnuff it" (suicide).
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Richard Vetter
Member

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #4 - on: 17.05.2011 at 22:48 [UT+1] »Anxiety, especially strain and pressure fall under the dominion of G. I's illusions and confusion only bringproblems when confronted with strict (Saturnian) norms and reality.

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Re: angst and serenity« Reply #5 - on: 17.05.2011 at 23:06 [UT+1] »You say mental strain so you need to consider Mercury-Mercury in strain aspect to Uranus would show anxiety,calm probably would come from a good dose of Mercury in harmonious aspect to Saturn or Venus or Neptune.
I don't really see mental strain from Neptune-possibly strain from a hard Saturn aspect to Mercury. Taurus andLibra are more associated with calming energies and their rulers so you could look at how they aspect.

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Carls mate
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Re: angst and serenity« Reply #6 - on: 18.05.2011 at 00:30 [UT+1] »"and their rulers".
FYI: Taurus and Libra are both ruled by Venus.
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Linda Harris

Member

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #7 - on: 18.05.2011 at 00:48 [UT+1] »Boy, would I love to pin this one on Neptune....lol
However, unless Neptune connects unfavorably with the moon, I can't see Neptune as being the core
issue...UNLESS Neptune, by natus, sits at the 4th house cusp.
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Ed Falis
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Re: angst and serenity« Reply #8 - on: 18.05.2011 at 02:31 [UT+1] »Quote from Richard Vetter on 17.05.2011 at 22:48 [UT+1]:
Anxiety, especially strain and pressure fall under the dominion ofstrict (Saturnian) norms and reality.

G. I's illusions and confusion only bring problems when confronted with

Yep! But do consider aspects.
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Friesiangal

Member

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #9 - on: 18.05.2011 at 10:31 [UT+1] »Quote:
Which house, sign or angle represents mental calm or mental strain?

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Gender:So far the concensus would appear to be that it's the planet and not sign/house realm that suggests mental
strain/calm.
I'd agree with tranquil regarding Mercury's function, whilst it is Uranus that is associated with eventual'mental stress and strain' as a result of not being able to change a thought pattern in dealing with Saturn'spressure (Richard). Neptune is not associated with 'strain', rather than 'confusion' through lack ofclarity(clairvoyancy) regarding a situation.
Yet, where there is an association/aspect with the 3rd house energies, you might also find a tendancy towards
some kind of mental instability.
The Fire signs are generally optimistic of nature, Earth signs are more matter-of-fact, whilst the Air signs canmentally adjust, so such qualites can relieve any mental pressure found elsewhere to produce calm. Water signs
seem too emotionally temperamental to experience a calmness of nature, although the Pisces 'out of reality'
significance can help escape personal turmoil.
Sometimes it's a case of 6 of one and half a dozen of the other to find an equilibrium of balance.

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wandering
Ex Member

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #10 - on: 18.05.2011 at 21:50 [UT+1] »It should be clarified what is meant by angst. I was thinking of angst in the stronger sense as anguish, but if
angst is only meant to be anxiety or stress or tension, then:"The inquiry is into the means of precluding the three sorts of pain; for pain [existence] is tension: nor is theinquiry superfluous because obvious means of alleviation exist, for absolute and final relief is not thereby
accomplished."-Sankhya Karika verse 1
The premise would be that existing (as humans or animals or whatever) is a tension. Tension is said by some,to be a general condition of existing in these forms. Therefore, assuming this is true, then we would need tounderstand the varying degrees of tension and the derivatives it produces such as angst.
There may exist a person who would disagree with this apparently pessimistic view of life.
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CelineMember

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #11 - on: 19.05.2011 at 00:26 [UT+1] »Quote from wandering on 18.05.2011 at 21:50 [UT+1]:
It should be clarified what is meant by angst. I was thinking of angst in the stronger sense as anguish, but if angst is only meant to be
anxiety or stress or tension, then:"The inquiry is into the means of precluding the three sorts of pain; for pain [existence] is tension: nor is the inquiry superfluous because

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Gender:obvious means of alleviation exist, for absolute and final relief is not thereby accomplished."-Sankhya Karika verse 1
The premise would be that existing (as humans or animals or whatever) is a tension. Tension is said by some, to be a general condition ofexisting in these forms. Therefore, assuming this is true, then we would need to understand the varying degrees of tension and thederivatives it produces such as angst.
There may exist a person who would disagree with this apparently pessimistic view of life.

Good point. It seems most people interpreted angst as ordinary anxiety, whereas I had the more existentialist
anguish in mind. I don't think saturn is connected with angst. saturn's anxiety is when one has to keep twojobs to pay the bills, and the buses are on strike and one is worried they won't have time to go from one job tothe other! It's the anxiety that comes from everyday, real, pressures. I am thinking more of the angst thatcomes when one feels constantly alienated and disconnected and can never feel well- adjusted or relate toothers.
Here's what i think. I think that angst increases with subjectivity, so planets and aspects that enhance
subjectivity are likey to bring angst. In contrast, planets and aspects that increase objectivity will lower angst.
So Air planets are fine, and so is Saturn! Mars brings stress but not angst. The IC indicates angst because it is
the most subjective of angles. Neptune and Pluto are also subjective so they would play a role.
BTW, Jim Lewis lists 'mental strain' as one of the effects of an angular Neptune.
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phoenix12
Member

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #12 - on: 19.05.2011 at 00:34 [UT+1] »Quote from Celine on 19.05.2011 at 00:26 [UT+1]:
I am thinking more of the angst that comes when one feels constantly alienated and disconnected and can never feel well- adjusted or
relate to others.

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I like this definition, and it sounds like classic Pluto to me. Perhaps 'Angst and Serenity' reflect the ScorpioTaurus axis.
p12
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Richard Vetter

Member

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #13 - on: 20.05.2011 at 17:15 [UT+1] »Quote from Celine on 19.05.2011 at 00:26 [UT+1]:
It seems most people interpreted angst as ordinary anxiety, whereas I had the more existentialist anguish in mind. I don't think saturn isconnected with angst...

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that in English the term "angst" mainly has existentialist connotations. In German"Angst" covers a pretty broad spectrum; yet, in most cases you have a concrete object of fear or you can namea specific cause of your anguish. The word etymologically is derived from "eng", meaning "tight" or "restricted",
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Gender:i.e. in German it mostly belongs to Saturn's domain.
Yet, existentialist angst indeed is Neptunian: the fear of your identity's dissolution, of your person's extinction
into sheer nothingness. According to Doebereiner, this we have when I especially is connected to the B or A
(or I is located in house 4 or 5, resp.). A feeling of swallowed up by the Great Mother or of an annihilation
because of some competition with persons of the same gender...

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wandering
Ex Member

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #14 - on: 20.05.2011 at 22:34 [UT+1] »Welcome to Babel.
One person's extreme anxiety may be another person's existential anguish; not to mention the numerous
planetary combinations which could lead to varying forms of stress or "angst."
In the sidereal astrology system, psychological collapse is said to be ascertained by looking at the Moon,
Cancer, the 4th and 5th houses, the ascendant, and the rulers of those, i.e., there is an agreement here with
the IC mentions in this context, between these different astrology systems, at least in the general area to look.

G conjunct or aspecting (3,7,10) the B is capable of causing mental torture and psychological deconstruction,
especially during sade sati or a Saturn dasa. G and K conjunct the B will likely tear the person's mind apartand give rise to a situation that some people would call existential anguish and other people would call the
Separation (monomyth). But there are going to be other combinations as well.
There are going to be numerous planetary combinations that will result in various forms and levels of stress.
If anyone is interested in a sidereal perspective of one component of this broad topic, then here is an article
where this information was from:http://planetarytransformation.blogspot.com/2006/05/traversing-monomyth-with-ved ic.html
The article seems appropriate for the title of this thread.
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CelineMember

Re: angst and serenity« Reply #15 - on: 20.05.2011 at 22:34 [UT+1] »Quote from Richard Vetter on 20.05.2011 at 17:15 [UT+1]:
Quote from Celine on 19.05.2011 at 00:26 [UT+1]:
It seems most people interpreted angst as ordinary anxiety, whereas I had the more existentialist anguish in mind. I don't
think saturn is connected with angst...

Posts: 2948
Gender:I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that in English the term "angst" mainly has existentialist connotations. In German "Angst" covers a pretty broad
spectrum; yet, in most cases you have a concrete object of fear or you can name a specific cause of your anguish. The word
etymologically is derived from "eng", meaning "tight" or "restricted", i.e. in German it mostly belongs to Saturn's domain.
Yet, existentialist angst indeed is Neptunian: the fear of your identity's dissolution, of your person's extinction into sheer nothingness.
According to Doebereiner, this we have when

I especially is connected to the B or A (or I is located in house 4 or 5, resp.). A feelingof swallowed up by the Great Mother or of an annihilation because of some competition with persons of the same gender...

Very interesting thoughts about Neptune. I agree - I have Neptune square Sun (in a T square no less), and thisrings a bell for when the square is activated by transits.
As for angst, yes, when the German word is used in English, it takes on philosophical-existentialist overtones,
entailing an inexplicable unease or anguish with one's existence that makes one tremble and feel dizzy.
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