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Spiritualizing censored (Read 793 times)

JonathanEx Member

Spiritualizing censored« on: 10.11.2009 at 16:39 [UT] »Wanted to see if anyone wanted to discuss the differences between spiritual concepts and psychologicalconcepts.
Psychological concept.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Factor 1: Aggressive narcissism
1. Glibness/superficial charm
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth
3. Pathological lying
4. Cunning/manipulative
5. Lack of remorse or guilt
6. Emotionally shallow
7. Callous/lack of empathy
8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
The spiritual world would call this "emotional mastery".
Are our guides and spiritual leaders ego expression of trustworthyness a real true trustworthyness or simply agrandiose ego expression of it?
I can't see anything being any different behind the veil than here. There has to be a primary connection. If
empathy flow is based on heart chakra and feeling function workings then all they have to do is manipulate
those flows. The world always seems to be on the lookout for higher ideals as they are necessary to balance or
cover up the stark realities of the world. As I went through my opening cycles this life I noticed that as yourheart chakra opening gets higher and higher levels you get much more of a sense of "meant to be" type of
connections with the world and things begin to feel much more fated. I don't think it's a "real" phenomenon. I
think you simply lose more co-creation power and become more co-created and accepting of nefarious orcontrary wills. This may seem like a higher voice or higher calling but it gives an emotional manipulation
theme. If the leaders here are all sociopaths with no real emotional connection between people then they are
pure emotional manipulators because it's all a mental thought ordering game to them. If they correctly
respond the thoughts become receptive, move around the "body" and people pick them up as emotional floods.
I got really sensitive to this with the last october "The aliens are coming October 15th to put a stop to theleaders". All the videos and communications were highly charged with the rekei energetic stuff. Just likehallmark movies and religious texts. Always buzzing off the clairsentient population trying to make them"believe" that what they are seeing or reading or hearing is "real" or true. Once again the "higher" authority
really being the "lower" authority setting up a "savior" system that never comes to pass to avoid people directly
dealing with the problems at hand.
It's like jupiter concepts. It has the concept of generosity but the REALITY of generosity is there is VERY little
difference between a generous person and a non-generous person. Jupiter largess is a neptune illusion. Until
the rich actually give the money to people willing to do and produce what the poor need there's no real"engine" behind it. Historically I've never read or studied or heard of a single person who hasn't abused jupiterfaith and trust. The cycle seems to be gain more and more trust then abuse it for gain. Or there's manipulation
behind it. Mother Teresa had deep religious experiences and devoted her life to helping people but I believe thatwas manipulation and I believe that there was real doubt going on with her at the end and that she experiencesa simple "xanadu" experience.
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pEnR5bk7R08gQ1dceD2b0aVwknLa7yw7Fg7ai-j59a
7awaFv0ctbhsbRa8I9vtv9qprObY2qml1AIQqDcHFkvsg/xanadu.png
I can't see any real "good/evil" structure to the world. I see only an all encompassing all pervasive desire to"create" reality that other people live in but who the creators of the reality DON'T. I don't see any "real" desire
to get rid of fraud or violence. I see only the desire by those in authority to be the SOLE executors of suchthings. In other words all the painful chiron activity and all the stupid senseless occurances in the world appear
to me to happen not out of any desire to RID the world of those things but simply to keep or achieve a
MONOPOLY on those behaviors. Much ado has been made out of this 5000 year cycle ending on 2012. But really
we've been through those before and nothing much has changed.
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Linda Harris

Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #1 - on: 10.11.2009 at 17:39 [UT] »you said,"
The spiritual world would call this "emotional mastery".
Posts: 17033

where is that written?

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tree frog
Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #2 - on: 10.11.2009 at 20:08 [UT] »I understand your points,was it blossom goodchild (the date you mentioned)? we could try finding a chart for
her,many of the gurus etc are not very well balanced and diana cooper (angels) springs to mind very
quickly,some of the claims made by the teachers are questionable.The reason I asked about the harmonic
convergence in another thread was that I felt they had maybe made a mountain out of a molehill...they claimed
the astrology of the day was particularly significant but I can't see it
as for 2012 - there are many conflicting ideas but personally I don't believe the hype
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beetlejuice

Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #3 - on: 10.11.2009 at 20:21 [UT] »Quote from tree frog on 10.11.2009 at 20:08 [UT]:
I understand your points,was it blossom goodchild (the date you mentioned)? we could try finding a chart for her,many of the gurus etc are
not very well balanced and diana cooper (angels) springs to mind very quickly,some of the claims made by the teachers arequestionable.The reason I asked about the harmonic convergence in another thread was that I felt they had maybe made a mountain outof a molehill...they claimed the astrology of the day was particularly significant but I can't see it
as for 2012 - there are many conflicting ideas but personally I don't believe the hype

It frightens me when intelligent people are "lost" to new age know it alls. The harmonics convergence new age
types are so "illuminated" by their gurus and guides that they don't need to look at the actual ephemerides orhoroscopes.
What really upsets me is that when a small child is murdered by its mother's boyfried after enduring its shortlife of less than two years completely unknowing of anyone outside its abusing family circle, that new agists
would say that the baby did it to himself. It is the ultimate abuser's charter, total forgiveness.
There is a lot of rubbish written about 2012, supposedly wisdom received from spirit guides often via guruswhich is spoken of as if it was true, even if the speaker prefaces their wisdom with "I think" (no, they don't
think). However, I was impressed by the book 2012 written by Daniel Pinchbeck. He does seem to attract afollowing of brainless, guru-following illuminati, but he himself seems to be genuine, intelligent and articulate.
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tree frog
Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #4 - on: 10.11.2009 at 22:13 [UT] »Yes I have the Daniel Pinchbeck,it's better than most of the other books available on the 2012,I read diana
cooper's 2012 and beyond yesterday..well I read 127 pages and found 40 points (I made notes) that disturbed
me,her arrogance is shocking and she is one of those that preaches "we choose what happens to us"
she claims that the 21-12-12 that OIJ are configured to interact that day and as the energies interact it willcause a massive impact on the consciousness of the planet and that there is potential for a huge shift infrequency,she further claims that it's not just the Mayans who predict on 2012 but theincas,aztecs,hopi,seneca,cherokee,maori,tibetan and jewish calendars,the great calendar of thepleiades,egyptian myth and africcan shamans and the vedas ALL claim 2012 is the time??
it was her going on about the planetary line up of the harmonic convergence that had me looking at that date,oh well..I'm obviously not enlightened enough to see whatever it is they see
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beetlejuice

Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #5 - on: 10.11.2009 at 23:06 [UT] »I found a reference to the harmonics convergence in a book "True as the stars above", by Neil Spencer. He
writes, "(Arch) Crawford had been alerted to another event by the "harmonic convergence" declared by New
Ager Jose Arguelles for 17th August (1987), allegedly in accordance with the Mayan calendar. This celebrated aplanetary pile-up of Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus and Mars on 24th August. This conjunction sounded alarm
bells for Crawford, who advised his clients to be out of the markets by 24th August, in advance of a"horrendous crash"."Back to top

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Jonathan
Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #6 - on: 11.11.2009 at 00:05 [UT] »Quote from tree frog on 10.11.2009 at 22:13 [UT]:
Yes I have the Daniel Pinchbeck,it's better than most of the other books available on the 2012,I read diana cooper's 2012 and beyond
yesterday..well I read 127 pages and found 40 points (I made notes) that disturbed me,her arrogance is shocking and she is one of thosethat preaches "we choose what happens to us"

OIJ

she claims that the 21-12-12 thatare configured to interact that day and as the energies interact it will cause a massive impact on
the consciousness of the planet and that there is potential for a huge shift in frequency,she further claims that it's not just the Mayans who
predict on 2012 but the incas,aztecs,hopi,seneca,cherokee,maori,tibetan and jewish calendars,the great calendar of the pleiades,egyptian
myth and africcan shamans and the vedas ALL claim 2012 is the time??
it was her going on about the planetary line up of the harmonic convergence that had me looking at that date,oh well..I'm obviously not enlightened enough to see whatever it is they see

Is there any enlightment at all? If they are sociopathic "emotional masters" it means they are unfeelinguncaring purely intellectually manipulative individuals. They are divorced from everyone by not emotionallyresponding to them so they've become a divorced controlling manipulative entitity. The world is headingstraight towards a divorced world banking system controlled by just a few people with no allegiance to anyone
and no oversite from anyone. They are trying to create credit default swaps and other financial instruments andmake them laws for everyone to follow when they have no laws imposed upon them and NO input from thepeople who will be controlled or follow the law on how they operate. They are just arrogantly making the rules
and imposing them on everyone.
When someone is pushing you and imposing their will on you what are the options of actions? You push back.
This is direct straightforward and leads nowhere it become might becomes right. The people who run thisplanet seem to have taken option 2. Stop caring about everyone and purely manipulate their behaviors asmuch as possible. By making the world as abusive and controlling and getting and maintaining power
differentials between parties they are able to taint the water so to speak to make it purely a process of trying to
get clean using sewage. Then they simply take up know it all spiritual authority attitudes focusing people on thewrong sources of the problem trying to put it all on them. Then they mine the purest hearts for whatever
appeasing or appealing ideologies that can be put to use to "counterbalance" the raw pure disgusting realities
being created here that have no feedback oppositional forces. Which is why getting the most from people
seems to be the most prevelant attitude. With saturn continually implying that you have to exert all yourresources to "overcome" whatever bitter limitation seems to be imposed on you. That's the dis-ease cycle. Bymaking things exactly hard and unbearable as possible without going over the line they make it as hard andunbearable on as many people as possible which causes much disease. Once the person becomes too diseased
then it's momentarily released and healed for a tiny bit then it's straight back to the old diseasing patterns. All
why they continually keep telling us WE CHOOSE it. The source of it all is the biggest and the best andbrightest manipulators by maintaining their monopoly on their manipulation schemes they are able to "allow"
the usage of the manipulation and then scape goat the person to take a fall for it. The monopoly is always
maintained and the true source of the problem is always untouched which various people claim to be"ascended" beings who have "passed through and graduated. Supposedly untouchable living in some divorced
higher plane. What concerns me is they keep trying to create the same world government or world order byforce and violence coupled with emotional manipulation. Always maintaining that there is some rules thateveryone follows and there is some deeper meaning behind everything and all the bad things that happen to
people must be "resolved to change or heal" whatever is the source of it. You can't change or heal anything you
don't cause. By continually putting damager and damagee together and making the damagee think they havesome control over it maintains the constant continual slide towards putting more and more responsibility on
the victims. Then you have the stupid wisdom that comes from it. "You can't cheat an honest man". Why yes.
Yes you can. It's just much harder. Only love is real. That's not true at all. To a person who truly wants to do noharm when they get angry and want to harm someone they try as hard as possible to stop it. That persons
hatred is real but not real because they contain and control it. When a person truly wants to harm people you
get the opposite side of the same coin. Their love becomes a "not real" phenomon. It's purely faked it doesn't
stand up to tests of character which I believe is the true attractive principles of the universe. True love/fake hate
attracts true hate/fake love and attempts to make the fake real. Apply this pattern of abuse until everyone hastrue hate but fake love and once that becomes a universal phenomenom you stop having participants trying to
uncover the false love true harm nature of the universe.
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danielMember

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #7 - on: 11.11.2009 at 00:12 [UT] »i believe the mistake is in listening to the opinions of others, when you should be your own
guru or listen to the master within... so i have no other energy about this matter.
it is hard enough to remove the veils from your own eyes... so who knows about some one
else' s misguided view or coloration.
with love, daniel

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IP LoggedBasanti
Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #8 - on: 11.11.2009 at 03:49 [UT] »Hi Daniel,
Right on. However I do agree with some of the bullshit he detected. We can't blame victims for being

Posts: 2872
Gender:victimized until they learn how not to be and even then we can't. But we can heal what is done to us by also
staying away from what hurts us or not taking shit from others.
But there is a lot of crap out there, yes. And yes there are enlightened people. I know some but done bedecieved that enlightened people are perfect according to your ideology. Enlightenment is a state of being andexperience that often makes people appear rather odd or different. Sometimes brash, harsh, sometimes
gentle. Its not a blue pill for fitting into YOUR ideals if you are looking for perfect behavior. Each person I
know who has achieved samadhi has quirks and 'moments' so its not a fix-all by anymeans. Don't go into a
neptunian illusion of what enlightenment is like 99 percent of the population does.

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JonathanEx Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #9 - on: 11.11.2009 at 23:39 [UT] »Quote from tree frog on 10.11.2009 at 20:08 [UT]:
I understand your points,was it blossom goodchild (the date you mentioned)? we could try finding a chart for her,many of the gurus etc are
not very well balanced and diana cooper (angels) springs to mind very quickly,some of the claims made by the teachers arequestionable.The reason I asked about the harmonic convergence in another thread was that I felt they had maybe made a mountain outof a molehill...they claimed the astrology of the day was particularly significant but I can't see it
as for 2012 - there are many conflicting ideas but personally I don't believe the hype

There may be something to the 2012 hype. That's when all the US government debt has to be revolved. You'dthink it would be an end to a lying cheating economic system full of fraud and lies that create paradoxes. But if
it smoothly or roughly transits to a coming out party for the global divorced economic system we live underanyway then I'll know for sure things are exactly as horrible as they appear and the entire creative cycle of theworld is nothing but a continual striving to perfect fraud and abuse.
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lioninrain
Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #10 - on: 12.11.2009 at 00:34 [UT] »I think it all, in the end, revolves around a huge inferiority/superiority complex...Seems like a certain large
segment of people have an undying need to worship something, someone. Likewise, another segment has anequally undying need to be worshipped, adored, whatever.
It is, I'm afraid, as enlightened as I will ever be...You're not better than me, and I'm not better than you whoever you are be it a king, queen, or beggar. Try my very best to live my life by the golden rule, and try mybest not to expect others to live by my rules, as much I don't really want to live by their's.
Posts: 1554
Gender:I once got a fortune cookie with the fortune "You are the wisdom you seek" - I think that's probably true.

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truegem620

Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #11 - on: 12.11.2009 at 02:15 [UT] »Quote from Jonathan on 10.11.2009 at 16:39 [UT]:
Wanted to see if anyone wanted to discuss the differences between spiritual concepts and psychological concepts.
Psychological concept.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Factor 1: Aggressive narcissism
1. Glibness/superficial charm

Posts: 4466
Gender:

2. Grandiose sense of self-worth
3. Pathological lying
4. Cunning/manipulative
5. Lack of remorse or guilt
6. Emotionally shallow
7. Callous/lack of empathy
8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
The spiritual world would call this "emotional mastery".

No spiritual world I've ever 'entered' would call this emotional mastery- though the western world in which I
live in might call it 'ambition'...I might call it 'government'.
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Jonathan
Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #12 - on: 13.11.2009 at 08:54 [UT] »Thank you for all your comments. I'm sorry if what I was trying to get at wasn't easily conveyed. It's just somuch information I want to use a "thought ball" to explain it all.
I know what you are talking about truegemini. People want to say there is nothing wrong with ambition but foreverything to grow something must shrink. It's all zero sum. The native americans came to this world with theconcept that they owned nothing because they were less permanent than the surroundings. Now people cometo this world assuming that they own everything and everybody in it. All conflict arises from people NOT willingto limit themselves, somebody else must limit them, punish them conform them because they won't do it
naturally. And as Daniel said everybody must find their own truth but instead they rely on someone else to do
it for them. I guess mars and venus will never get their crap together until pluto drags everything out of
subconciousness and brings it to conciousness and empowers mars enough. The universe can't even get the
1/7th and 2/8th house right. No wonder the 3rd/9th house has no wisdom.
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dog8818

Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #13 - on: 14.11.2009 at 00:51 [UT] »Jonathan, what I'm hearing, or interpreting, is that you are mad as hell that "everyone" is not going to get "it".
That, in fact, most "everyone" is going to USE "it" against us, who sit here in our lotus positions waiting andtrusting that the world is actually a safe place to be, that goodness and kindness and generosity of spirit
actually exists. And now that you know that that is a big fat illusion, you're a little pissed off that you weresold a bill of goods.
Disillusionment sucks. But it's necessary because that's what forces people back into themselves, where,
pardon the quote, "the kingdom lies". Can you imagine the mass immolation if people who have gone against
their own natures (out of fear, nothing else) were to realize it in one blinding moment of Uranian truth? Not
gonna happen.
Posts: 2645
Gender:

And no, I don't believe the 2 year old child "chose it". I'm not sure we "choose" anything until we know we hada choice, and most people really don't want that responsibility. Then they'd be aware that they could live
differently, and, well, that pretty much goes against the American Dream.
Fear is what caused all those CEOs to amass great fortunes, fear is what causes people to do horrible things.
Until we get rid of fear, (and I can't even imagine how that would look) then we're stuck living with the fearful.
My whole discipline in life right now is to become "transparent", meaning that all that fear GOES RIGHTTHROUGH ME, "this is not the droid you seek", pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" kind of
mentality. I want to refuse to acknowledge fear. People who need gurus, or even to BELIEVE THEY ARE"ENLIGHTENED" are fear driven. Lack of fear means lack of definition of "self". The self ceases to need labels.
IT JUST "IS".
And maybe that's when we get to I AM THAT I AM. But it's a lonely job, an inside job. If we meet one or two
like minded people on the way, who hold their integrity no matter what, then I consider that to be the biggest
miracle in life. Not the lottery winning, not the "falling in loooooove", not the "oh my child got her Ph.D, I'm
so proud". Just hanging with those who get "it", the way I get "it". And on the days when I'm *not* getting"it" (because I'm human, and have my moments), they hold "it" for me. They believe I'll be back, and its that
simple belief in me when I've abandoned myself that always brings me back. We have to believe in the basic
goodness of humans despite a bazillion evidences to the contrary.
I hope you have people like this in your life. Disillusionment without returning to transparency can lead tobitterness and as far as I'm concerned, bitterness is one step away from "what the f*ck, I might as well be justlike 'em". And then we lose another soul to the dark side.

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Ed Falis
Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #14 - on: 14.11.2009 at 01:56 [UT] »Good on ya', Ms. Dog. You have wisdom.

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Tom Eardor

Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #15 - on: 14.11.2009 at 02:25 [UT] »The dog has the makings of a Psychological Astrologer. Common sense and Integrity are perhaps the 2 main
pre-requisites.
I couldn't make much, if any, sense of Johnathan's post(s).
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DivineIntervention Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap
Ex Member« Reply #16 - on: 14.11.2009 at 08:13 [UT] »Quote from Jonathan on 11.11.2009 at 23:39 [UT]:..and the entire creative cycle of the world is nothing but a continual striving to perfect fraud and abuse.

How about 'counterbalance' instead of 'perfect'. Which then implies dual boss system?
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Fauve

Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #17 - on: 14.11.2009 at 12:32 [UT] »JonathanDo you by any chance have a Jupiter/Chiron aspect? Cause if you do and it’s hit by one of the outer planets
you’ll be in for one hell of a crisis if it comes to your higher believes. The only way to make it go a way is to go
straight through it: Hold on, man…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M72A0AWdg5U&feature=related

You should hear this guy’s story. Great singer, though…
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JonathanEx Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #18 - on: 15.11.2009 at 03:01 [UT] »No. I finally got it. I solved the paradox. It's like this, the world and universe is a pyramid structure. With a few
on top in authority and those underneath are controlled. The problem is spirtual concepts of higher self/lower
self. Those on top are corrupt. They always have been always will be. But they want to stay on top. They haveno higher self. So they have to constantly appeal to OUR higher self. It's like a mobius self twisted aries/libra.
The pyramid has a reverse pyramid inverted and balanced point to point on each other. I finally see the codependance. It wants to sink lower and become an even bigger more twisted lower self so that's why it'sconstantly trying to grow and develop and build a bigger and bigger base of higher self here.
It's hard to explain but you see the scam don't you? Why are some people subjected to emotional flooding
through the crown chakra with pluto in 4th house while psychopaths and sociopaths run around the world
unhindered by such traumatic things? Because of the inherent unfairness of it all. It's a purely nihilistic powerplay constantly attempting to create majority to take away the rights of minority. Just like Bill Gates did at startof his company. His agents would deal with companies like this. You will write favorable remarks about windows
you will not dwell on it's problems, we will advertise in your magazine but if you do not follow these "laws" thenwhen we are the dominant operating system you will be shut out. People went along with it. It actually createdthe dominance. Then they were shut out anyway because monopolies don't need to buy big glossy ads anyway.
They got something for next to NOTHING and the people who cooperated got something for a short time andthen the nothing that resulted anyway. Forgiveness must truely exist because there is no karma. Yet both aretaught as universal spiritual laws yet both negate each others foundations of truth.
If you want to know just how much better and morally superior to god you are simply count up the appeals
your guides and conciousness make to your higher self and how see how much misery you cause for yourself
and those you enable. That is the paradox of higher self guiding and "seeming" to desire to somehow overcome
cruelty and hatred. The medicine god prescribes you is not to heal you but to heal itself and only itself for yourease is not important. Only the ease of those that are the most capable of manipulating.
Jesus is NOT our savior. He's GOD's SAVIOUR. HE'S HIS OWN SAVIOUR.
They tie heavy burdens to you and make you work long and hard.
My yoke is light.
Eternal forgiveness is a light yoke?. A yoke is a yoke. It's a burden and it's not light or easy. Nothing changed
you simply managed perception of the same universal laws of iniquity that create the same conforming forcesof inequality.
I hope we get a titan again to kick off the age of aquarius. All I have to do is listen intently and do the EXACT
opposite of what is taught to ensure the next 2150 years of my incarnations will go easy. LOL But I'll probably
be just what I enjoy being the most. A brutal unrelenting paradox killer stalking God's lying butt through all
eternity.
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JonathanEx Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #19 - on: 15.11.2009 at 03:03 [UT] »Quote from Fauve on 14.11.2009 at 12:32 [UT]:JonathanDo you by any chance have a Jupiter/Chiron aspect? Cause if you do and it’s hit by one of the outer planets you’ll be in for one hell of acrisis if it comes to your higher believes. The only way to make it go a way is to go straight through it: Hold on, man…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M72A0AWdg5U&feature=related

You should hear this guy’s story. Great singer, though…

Yeah they are definitely pumping him full of bullcrap.

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Fauve
Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #20 - on: 15.11.2009 at 10:45 [UT] »You sure sound like one. Must be Pluto/ Jupiter than.
Eternal forgiveness ? You bought that crap? No wonder you're this angry and still thinking in a box.
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direct Jupitarian

Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #21 - on: 16.11.2009 at 02:47 [UT] »I'm curious Jonathan if you have ever had any experiences with Yeshua? Those non religious folks who have
had experiences with him, tend to have a very different view of him than both the dogmatic, system
brainwashed religious folks and the cynics who rant against "Jesus" and Christianity.
We are our own saviors because everything happens according to cause and effect and we all have
responsiblity for how we use our freewill.
With that said, there are helpers and guides along the way that help us in various ways. Yeshua is one of thelongest, most committed, and most helpful ones out there. Based on experience, not on theory, speculation,
emotionalism, intellect, or the like.
Why not try to communicate with him yourself, and see him apart from all the system's dogma around him?
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Jonathan
Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #22 - on: 16.11.2009 at 04:51 [UT] »Quote from direct Jupitarian on 16.11.2009 at 02:47 [UT]:
I'm curious Jonathan if you have ever had any experiences with Yeshua? Those non religious folks who have had experiences with him,tend to have a very different view of him than both the dogmatic, system brainwashed religious folks and the cynics who rant against"Jesus" and Christianity.
We are our own saviors because everything happens according to cause and effect and we all have responsiblity for how we use ourfreewill.
With that said, there are helpers and guides along the way that help us in various ways. Yeshua is one of the longest, most committed,
and most helpful ones out there. Based on experience, not on theory, speculation, emotionalism, intellect, or the like.
Why not try to communicate with him yourself, and see him apart from all the system's dogma around him?

It doesn't matter how it's iconified or avatared. Promethian fire, holy ghost. It's the same source. I've had myexperiences with it. I'm just trying to put a systemic counter strategy conciousness on it. You know how
aquarius works when you have uranus aspected on the ascendant it makes a person negatively suggestible. So
I'm trying to figure out how the few are able to "contrary invest" against the masses to reap such huge rewards
and that is it. By having NO HIGHER SELF they put themselves in the position of being the ONES appealed to.
But the higher self is NOT A REAL self. It's an illusory lying manipulative self masquerading as a higher self to
try to counter against the forces that exist that will and do cause the complete dumping, devaluation of self
esteem, massive overwhelming depression that will result from the use of such powers. Gods plan is to rule andcontrol the entire world and entire universe. Everyone who is not manipulative and power hungry and capableof the finest in sociopathic behavior will not be rewarded by such a God. Everyone who is real and genuine isseen as a threat to it and will be manipulated into receiving as much of the punishment as they can. The
majority of the people or about 95 percent are seen as attempting to crush God's dream of total dominationand control and that small group of people with perfect sympathy for each other and no sympathy for anyone
else feels justified in stomping and crushing any dreams of creation that are contrary to it's own.
It's like watching an idiot try to balance a propeller or tire. The balance keeps getting worse and worse and you
either have to come to the conclusion that the person is incompetent or genuinely trying to mess up thebalance. The fact that world can keep flying or rolling on these imbalanced instruments is a genuine testimony
to the power of it's illusionary weights.
I'm not ranting against Jesus or christianity. Those are simply "personality" figureheads to the concept that
there is a being or group of beings that are holy and purely righteous which by definition of that makes
everybody else "wrong" or sinners. Which by definition sets up religious dogma which rolls along attempting tolegitimize this or legitimize that and make some portions of the people authoritative conservative groupmembers attempting to use power on everyone outside the group. This sets up the so called plutotransformation powers which simply become small changes in behavior that go into a capricorn/cancer need
love conforming to expectation expression. Then it all degrades as it messes up the zero sum game. One
persons security is another persons insecurity. One persons wealth is another persons poverty. etc etc. One
persons control over their destiny and what they create becomes another persons other created destiny thatmust be either made palletable or they must be forced to accept whatever hardship, limitations or duties or
responsibility that the creator of that destiny imposes on them.
I'm not ranting against any specific religion. I'm ranting against the entire concept of any legitimization of
dictatorial Gods who don't make deals. Acceptance of any system that creates fate or limitations for the masses
without imposing those same limitations to the law makers and system designers. I've never seen a lawmakerfollow thier own laws and I've never seen an authority confess the ENTIRE truth. I've seem them makereactionary confessions to things that "game player" participants in the reality or system have uncovered.
Mohammed is not pure. Mohammed is not better than anyone else. Mohammad is not a prophet. There are noprophets. They are simply trying their best to predict/create their prophecies into reality. I'm becoming more
and more sensitive to the mechanics of all this. I guess that's why I like calling a Jesus an attention whore andgod an eternally corrupt failed king model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqDFGpd845Y
Jesus supposedly loves the poor. Imagine that. The king of kings wanting only the poor for his kingdom. Kindof looks exactly like the world we live in. The poor have trouble creating the things they need and desire withinsocieties and do not share equal co-creation power. Kings need small uncreative, un-needy servants.
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Fauve

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Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #23 - on: 16.11.2009 at 05:42 [UT] »You are angry at mental concepts made by people: Good for you… You should be angry because of what thesesociopaths are doing to us and to this world. Nothing is sacred to them. The anger can help you to get out ofthat box they created. But you keep making it universal or something. If you could list “god” which is a concept
to me, on the most wanted list you would have… Be angry at these people not some mental concept theycreated for you and give the universe some space… ( for god sake !

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Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #24 - on: 16.11.2009 at 05:55 [UT] »Goodness...of course all these systems are about control. That's old news. Be it financial, religious, emotional,
ethics, yadda yadda. They seek countrol to enforce regulation, behaviour, etc of the masses...by the few who
manouver themseles as being the A type super manouvers...fittest of the fit.
Religion works - or 'works' now-a-days growing more shaky...but it used to be a system they could manipulate
by climbing up the eschelons of power to become pope or whatnot...and rule the roost.
Politics works the same way..to become president.
Finance works the same way...and they are creating just now the apex (they were slow to get the hint of what
to do but finally they are on the job!)
So we will be controlled.
Then those controlled that have worked so hard to get up there in the rarefied air of not being controlled
realise that ...hell they are controlled because the controls have turned on them and need supersize controllers
to maintain the pace...so they better run ahead of the mob before we the underlings pile on them to fleecethem.
The system gets a life that is beyond the individual and then controls all itself. It becomes a force to be
reckoned with.
The pope is no longer in control of his apex...the force through the pyramid is. A faceless energy that wants totear it apart...and they have to work 10x to maintain it.
But we poor things are age dependent. we die. what a sh*t design...who thought that cog up into the mix?
Just as you manage to get up there you are too old to do anything - your body controls you with its decripid
disintegration...and you realise the middle layer is in control and pushed you there as a halluciantion ofpretence.
There's nothing up there - its all hot air.....its the lower lot that actually have the control....too late to stopthem.....
It's the power behind the thrown. The throne is actually just an empty showcase to gain our attention and our
focus.
The good thing is that the middle lot don't have a single clue that the powerbase is theirs.
Somewhere in there is that 80/20 rule that exists. 20% know its all crap and figure a way around it avoiding all
the termites and icebergs, dead logs and cement stumps and live free lives.
They know the rules and use the system but it doesn't use them.
I think they must be the sheepherders out in the Kenya foothills.
Neptune rules. Except its not neptune....cause this is yet another stupid system for manipulation of the masses
called astrology. This is a good one...you get the folks to focus on a clock on the wall and blame everything on
its hands movements.
How dumb is that?

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Jonathan

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Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #25 - on: 16.11.2009 at 06:18 [UT] »Quote from Fauve on 16.11.2009 at 05:42 [UT]:
You are angry at mental concepts made by people: Good for you… You should be angry because of what these sociopaths are doing to us
and to this world. Nothing is sacred to them. The anger can help you to get out of that box they created. But you keep making it universal
or something. If you could list “god” which is a concept to me, on the most wanted list you would have… Be angry at these people notsome mental concept they created for you and give the universe some space… ( for god sake !

)God is simply a concept to describe a group of amplified energy that's porportional to the number ofparticipants in the sympathetic amplification. For instance you have the spiritual concept of the law of 3 or thelaw of 7 or the law of 10 in various spritual teachings. Where it's said that you will receive a punishment 3
times as hard or 3 times as often or some various mathematical ratio for pure direct energy intervention suchas witchcraft or cursing. This is simply to cover up massive group energy retributions of sympathetic
participants against non sympathetic participants. It's not equality. So if you continue on with the system it
creates a mathematical system of slavish devotion to punishment a device easier to employ by the largest most
sympathetic groups that we know as "gods". Feudal gods monolithic gods it's all contrary to equality andcomplete polylithic conciousness. These clique gods try to get around their paradoxical cliquish behavior bytrying to set up manipulative rituals of inclusion which results in mostly abuse of those outside the group as
they try to enforce their limitations of expression on everyone. Those limitations don't exist in a "natural"group alignment state with little or no interaction between the various groups. But they project this own
cliquish behavior out onto everyone else when you refuse their interference or refuse to submit to their ritualsof inclusion claiming you are forming cliques and shutting them out.
The universe has the nothing but lies and paradoxes to justify itself. Whatever you use to stand up for yourindividual rights against it. It creates a paradox of action in a vain attempt to use it against you. It marches on
towards power in a few hands, huge corporations, monopolies and uniformity of creation while claiming it's own
infinite creativity as it destroys all contrary forms of creativity. Always claiming support it doesn't have. Always
conferring it's omnipotence in vain attempts to leverage what power it has into larger and wider circles.
The mental concepts I attack are the correct path. They compress through the group structures and become
the water that flows back through our crown chakra.
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Fauve
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Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #26 - on: 16.11.2009 at 06:32 [UT] »What I think I see you doing is making another concept out of it... But hey, you're free at least mentally in yourown mind you are.

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JonathanEx Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #27 - on: 16.11.2009 at 06:45 [UT] »LOL fifi. I have got to say staring into the abyss is the source of all comedy gold!!!!

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George Parker
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Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #28 - on: 16.11.2009 at 07:12 [UT] »Quote from beetlejuice on 10.11.2009 at 23:06 [UT]:
I found a reference to the harmonics convergence in a book "True as the stars above", by Neil Spencer. He writes, "(Arch) Crawford had
been alerted to another event by the "harmonic convergence" declared by New Ager Jose Arguelles for 17th August (1987), allegedly inaccordance with the Mayan calendar. This celebrated a planetary pile-up of Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus and Mars on 24th August. This
conjunction sounded alarm bells for Crawford, who advised his clients to be out of the markets by 24th August, in advance of a"horrendous crash"."Actually, the stock market hit a peak during the so-called harmonic convergence and thousands showed up at
Graceland to salute Elvis. Apart from that, it ranked with Y2K as an overhyped non-event. I expect the WinterSolstice of 2012 will be the same.
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Ex Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #29 - on: 16.11.2009 at 07:15 [UT] »Comedy Jono...pure comedy!
But only if you don't subscribe to the controls. You need to learn them to use them smartly......but stay off thebelief button.
Problem is .....as soon as you get off one belief, you fall into the lap of another. Still, as long as you realise its
a new belief...aka control system....you gotta wind your way upwards learning how its formed so you can getout of it...you're ok.
then we die and get our memory banks cleared blank and get born again to do it all over.
I wonder which system is now ahead?
I reckon its going to be the astrology belief system for this here Aquarius age that people have decided we aregoing to be in...just as soon as enough subscribe to that belief..... a bunch of clocks on every wall wherever you
go..... each person self-regulating themselves.
You don't have to worry how you'll get them to believe - as soon as you reach critical mass - its morphogenics.
They'll be RE-born into it.

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JonathanEx Member

Re: Spiritualizing Bullcrap« Reply #30 - on: 16.11.2009 at 12:43 [UT] »Quote from Fifi La Fif on 16.11.2009 at 07:15 [UT]:Comedy Jono...pure comedy!
But only if you don't subscribe to the controls. You need to learn them to use them smartly......but stay off the belief button.
Problem is .....as soon as you get off one belief, you fall into the lap of another. Still, as long as you realise its a new belief...aka control
system....you gotta wind your way upwards learning how its formed so you can get out of it...you're ok.
then we die and get our memory banks cleared blank and get born again to do it all over.
I wonder which system is now ahead?
I reckon its going to be the astrology belief system for this here Aquarius age that people have decided we are going to be in...just assoon as enough subscribe to that belief..... a bunch of clocks on every wall wherever you go..... each person self-regulating themselves.
You don't have to worry how you'll get them to believe - as soon as you reach critical mass - its morphogenics. They'll be RE-born into it.

Ya. It's funny. I was ranting at god one day and told him I was going to take control of them. I have a dream
and a guy was asking me matter of factly how many groups I wanted to control and he said 8? I said 2.
Anything more wouldn't fit naturally together. I found out later that that's the magic number. Once complete
and total control of 8 groups is achieved it's the 100 monkeys phenomenon and that super group is in chargeof all reality.
Once that critical mass is reached all contrary conciousnesses will simply fall into silence and all focuses go tothat one conciousness.
http://www.wowzone.com/monkey.htm
The strangeness of collective conciousness. What makes me wonder is if the participants who are able tomaintain the disconnection and exploit the contrary investment principles of it are able to maintain that ability
or would they magically lose it and end up believing and doing the bullcrap they created to manipulate. NOW
THAT would be hoot. To be enslaved by your own paradoxical opposition as it rips and tears through your true
self.
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