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Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study (Read 608 times)

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24.01.2023 at 10:54 [UT]« Previous topic | Next topic»

Alchemist777
MemberPoets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« on: 25.09.2018 at 21:26 [UT+1] »Below there's a list of top 20 poets ever. It was the ranking order in Ranker website some time ago, now therank order is little different as the voting process is constantly on going. We focus on the best of the best,
because as we have learnt from Gauquelin's studies, the absolute peak is where the astrological effects can be

Posts: 1212

seen more easily. Unfortunately A(A) rated data is rare, and this time we use all the data we can obtain. That is
how we get the birth data for 15 poets. For 4 poets the exact birth data is not available and one is excluded
from the study. The poets are presented in two categories according to their Astrodienst birth data rating. They
are also presented in their rank order.
As chart ruler we mean the ruler of rising sign. It can be noticed that Poet's the chart ruler is quite often in
rising sign, i.e in its home sign. All together eight poets out of 15 have the chart ruler is ascending sign. How
meaningful this over representation is?
It's not so simple to calculate of the probability of having the chart ruler in ascending sign as signs ascendingtimes varies. However, we can make a rough estimate. Assuming even distribution of rising signs and sign
positions for planets, we can make a calculation like this (1/12 x 1/12) x 12=1/12. So the probability of having
the chart ruler in ascending sign is about 0.083. Expected value ("Chart ruler in rising sign") is therefore 15 x
0.0833=1.25. The true number in this data is 8, so there's 6.4 fold over representation. There is some error in
the estimate, but some of the errors cancel each others at least to certain extent, which works in favor of
credibility of this estimate. We can continue this exercise and calculate the probability for this by using
permutations. A p-value and probability for this kind of over representationis 0.0000089=~1/110 000. How
about that! A very low figure is obtained, which is nice, because in situations like this we like small numbers.
The lower, the better. This one is so low that I wonder if there's an error in calculations. The number of poets issmall, but as stated, this is a mini-study, and probably not so scientific, but more demonstrative in its nature.
So it seems that for some reason the great poets tend to have the chart ruler in ascending sign. If so, why isthat? What does it mean? I suppose it could be related to "intensity" of this configuration. Maybe these people
throw themselves into the world, which results in variety of experiences and a surplus of poem worthy material.
But this is just a guess, the real explanation may be still out there...
A(A) data
3. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Yeats,_William_Butler
4. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe,_Johann_Wolfgang_von
The ruler (Pluto) is rising in home sign
5. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blake,_William
The ruler (Moon) is rising in home sign
7. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rilke,_Rainer_Maria
14. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles
16. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Novalis
The ruler (Mercury) is in rising sign
17. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eliot,_T.S.
The ruler (Venus) is rising in home sign
19. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tennyson,_Lord_Alfred
20. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Byron,_Lord
The ruler (Moon) is in rising sign----Other data
2. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dante_Alighieri

X

The ruler (Mercury) is in rising sign
9. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/H%C3%B6lderlin,_Friedrich C
The ruler (Jupiter) is in rising sign
10. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Petrarch B
The ruler (Sun) is rising in its home sign
11. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Poe,_Edgar_Allan C
12. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Wordsworth,_William B
18. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kipling,_Rudyard B
No data
1. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Shakespeare,_William
Shakespeare was excluded from the study due to dispute about the real authorship and the poor quality birthdata.
6. http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Virgil
8. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Schiller,_Friedrich_von
13. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ibsen,_Henrik
15. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Keats,_Johnhttps://www.ranker.com/list/best-poets/ranker-books
Back to top« Last Edit: 26.09.2018 at 18:00 [UT+1] by Alchemist777 »IP Logged

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study

tckutlu

Ex Member« Reply #1 - on: 25.09.2018 at 21:47 [UT+1] »You should extend the list as possible as you can.
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21. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles (AA)22. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg (AA)23. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur (AA) --> Fits with your theory.
24. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando (AA)25. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold (AA)
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For this 5 poets, only 1 one of them fits with the theory.
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Alchemist777
Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #2 - on: 25.09.2018 at 21:50 [UT+1] »Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 21:47 [UT+1]:
You should extend the list as possible as you can.
21. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles (AA)22. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg (AA)Posts: 1212

23. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur (AA) --> Fits with your theory.
24. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando (AA)25. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold (AA).
.
.
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For this 5 poets, only 1 one of them fits with the theory.

Baudelaire is included. It's not a theory, but an observation. Obviously that kind over representation is notgoing to last when adding a lot of poets.
« Last Edit: 26.09.2018 at 13:26 [UT+1] by Alchemist777 »Back to top

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tckutlu

Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #3 - on: 25.09.2018 at 21:58 [UT+1] »Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 21:50 [UT+1]:
Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 21:47 [UT+1]:
You should extend the list as possible as you can.
21. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles (AA)22. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg (AA)23. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur (AA) --> Fits with your theory.
24. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando (AA)25. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold (AA).
.
.
.
For this 5 poets, only 1 one of them fits with the theory.

Baudelaire is included. It's not a theory, but an observation. Obviously that kind over presentation is not going tolast when adding a lot poets.

Yes, you observed the 'ruler' in rising signs in some charts of poets but for example Charles Baudelaire and theabove three poets are exceptions...
I think it's early to reach a conclusion.
Edit: How do you define the chart ruler?
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Alchemist777
Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #4 - on: 25.09.2018 at 22:04 [UT+1] »Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 21:58 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 21:50 [UT+1]:
Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 21:47 [UT+1]:
You should extend the list as possible as you can.

Posts: 1212

21. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles (AA)22. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg (AA)23. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur (AA) --> Fits with your theory.
24. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando (AA)25. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold (AA).
.
.
.
For this 5 poets, only 1 one of them fits with the theory.

Baudelaire is included. It's not a theory, but an observation. Obviously that kind over presentation is notgoing to last when adding a lot poets.
Yes, you observed the 'ruler' in rising signs in some charts of poems but for example Charles Baudelaire is an exception.
I think it's early to reach a conclusion.

It is what it is. No conclusions were drawn. We know from the Gauquelin's studies that the astrological effects"dilute" when moved away from the absolute peak performances. It is not that we would know for sure if we"wait and see". The effect could had been there even if it was later diluted away.
Chart ruler = the ruler of rising sign
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tckutlu

Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #5 - on: 25.09.2018 at 22:19 [UT+1] »Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:04 [UT+1]:
Chart ruler = the ruler of rising sign

So let me share my observations.
AA and A:____
1. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Yeats,_William_Butler :Negative.
2. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe,_Johann_Wolfgang_von?nhor=427733&;nho2=868316 : Positive.
3. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blake,_William?nhor=427733&nho2=868316 : Positive
4. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rilke,_Rainer_Maria : Negative
5. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles : Negative
6. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Novalis : Positive
7. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eliot,_T.S. : Positive
8. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tennyson,_Lord_Alfred : Negative
9. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Byron,_Lord : Positive
10. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg : Negative
11. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur : Positive
12. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando : Negative
13. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold : Negative
We have total 13 people which is so less. From 13 people 7 of them are observed as negative and 6 of them areobserved as positive. So only 46 % of the 13 people are positive. And these user selected charts can create asample selection bias.
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Alchemist777
Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #6 - on: 25.09.2018 at 22:23 [UT+1] »Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 22:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:04 [UT+1]:
Chart ruler = the ruler of rising sign

Posts: 1212

So let me share my observations.
AA and A:____
1. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Yeats,_William_Butler :Negative.
2. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe,_Johann_Wolfgang_von?nhor=427733& ;nho2=868316 : Positive.
3. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blake,_William?nhor=427733&nho2=868316 : Positive
4. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rilke,_Rainer_Maria : Negative
5. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles : Negative
6. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Novalis : Positive
7. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eliot,_T.S. : Positive
8. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tennyson,_Lord_Alfred : Negative
9. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Byron,_Lord : Positive
10. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg : Negative
11. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur : Positive
12. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando : Negative
13. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold : Negative
We have total 13 people which is so less. From 13 people 7 of them are observed as negative and 6 of them are observed as positive. So
only 46 % of the 13 people are positive. And the way we collect the charts can create a selection bias.

What do you mean by "only"? That is a huge over representation! I am aware of selection bias. The purpose of
these "top N" lists is to counter and avoid cherry picking.
« Last Edit: 26.09.2018 at 13:27 [UT+1] by Alchemist777 »Back to top

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tckutlu

Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #7 - on: 25.09.2018 at 22:29 [UT+1] »Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 22:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:04 [UT+1]:
Chart ruler = the ruler of rising sign
So let me share my observations.
AA and A:____
1. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Yeats,_William_Butler :Negative.
2. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe,_Johann_Wolfgang_von?nhor=427733& ;nho2=868316 :Positive.
3. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blake,_William?nhor=427733&nho2=868316 : Positive
4. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rilke,_Rainer_Maria : Negative
5. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles : Negative
6. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Novalis : Positive
7. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eliot,_T.S. : Positive
8. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tennyson,_Lord_Alfred : Negative
9. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Byron,_Lord : Positive
10. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg : Negative
11. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur : Positive
12. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando : Negative
13. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold : Negative
We have total 13 people which is so less. From 13 people 7 of them are observed as negative and 6 of them are observed
as positive. So only 46 % of the 13 people are positive. And the way we collect the charts can create a selection bias.

What do you mean by "only"? That is a huge over presentation! I am aware of selection bias. The purpose of these "top N" lists is tocounter and avoid cherry picking.

If I formed the top N, I may include the above poets. Perhaps another one may add another poets. Should weconsider also the cultural effects of defining the top N? For an Iranian, the top N would be different.
I mean with the word 'only'. From 13 poets only 6 of them are positive, so 46 % of them.
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Alchemist777
Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #8 - on: 25.09.2018 at 22:36 [UT+1] »Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 22:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 22:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:04 [UT+1]:

Posts: 1212

Chart ruler = the ruler of rising sign
So let me share my observations.
AA and A:____
1. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Yeats,_William_Butler :Negative.
2. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe,_Johann_Wolfgang_von?nhor=427733&;nho2=868316 : Positive.
3. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blake,_William?nhor=427733&nho2=868316 :Positive
4. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rilke,_Rainer_Maria : Negative
5. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles : Negative
6. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Novalis : Positive
7. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eliot,_T.S. : Positive
8. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tennyson,_Lord_Alfred : Negative
9. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Byron,_Lord : Positive
10. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg : Negative
11. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur : Positive
12. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando : Negative
13. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold : Negative
We have total 13 people which is so less. From 13 people 7 of them are observed as negative and 6 of themare observed as positive. So only 46 % of the 13 people are positive. And the way we collect the charts cancreate a selection bias.

What do you mean by "only"? That is a huge over presentation! I am aware of selection bias. The purpose of these "top N"
lists is to counter and avoid cherry picking.
If I formed the top N, I may include the above poets. Perhaps another one may add another poets. Should we consider also the culturaleffect of the top N? For an Iranian, the top N would be different.
I mean with the word 'only'. From 13 poets only 6 of them are positive, so 46 % of them.

Well, apparently we have a different idea of "only" if you consider what I estimate over 5 fold overrepresentation to be "only". I know no better way than top N lists for determining a rank order. The point isthat I personally don't decide who are the best ever.
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tckutlu

Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #9 - on: 25.09.2018 at 22:49 [UT+1] »Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:36 [UT+1]:
Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 22:29 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:23 [UT+1]:
Quote from tckutlu on 25.09.2018 at 22:19 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:04 [UT+1]:
Chart ruler = the ruler of rising sign
So let me share my observations.
AA and A:____
1. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Yeats,_William_Butler :Negative.
2. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goethe,_Johann_Wolfgang_von?
nhor=427733& ;nho2=868316 : Positive.
3. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blake,_William?
nhor=427733&nho2=868316 : Positive
4. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rilke,_Rainer_Maria : Negative
5. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baudelaire,_Charles : Negative
6. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Novalis : Positive
7. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eliot,_T.S. : Positive
8. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tennyson,_Lord_Alfred : Negative
9. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Byron,_Lord : Positive
10. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trakl,_Georg : Negative
11. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rimbaud,_Arthur : Positive
12. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pessoa,_Fernando : Negative
13. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brecht,_Bertold : Negative
We have total 13 people which is so less. From 13 people 7 of them are observed as negativeand 6 of them are observed as positive. So only 46 % of the 13 people are positive. And theway we collect the charts can create a selection bias.

What do you mean by "only"? That is a huge over presentation! I am aware of selection bias. The purpose of
these "top N" lists is to counter and avoid cherry picking.
If I formed the top N, I may include the above poets. Perhaps another one may add another poets. Should we consider
also the cultural effect of the top N? For an Iranian, the top N would be different.
I mean with the word 'only'. From 13 poets only 6 of them are positive, so 46 % of them.

Well, apparently we have a different idea of "only" if you consider what I estimate over 5 fold over presentation to be "only". I know no
better way than top N lists for determining a rank order. The point is that I personally don't decide who are the best ever.

Dear Alchemist777,
What I wrote is clear enough I think, was not it?
From 13 people 6 of them are observed that the chart ruler is in rising sign.
You can say that "I can get a different percentage if I add different charts." And I can say to this remark, "Yes,you can, that's exactly what I mentioned about sample selection bias." That's why I said you should extend thatlist as possible as you can.
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tckutlu
Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #10 - on: 25.09.2018 at 23:20 [UT+1] »Let's add https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mallarm%C3%A9,_St%C3%A9phane to the list. So
the new rate is 50 %.

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thelivingsky

Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #11 - on: 25.09.2018 at 23:43 [UT+1] »Alchemist,
I am always skeptical of rising sign data for persons born before hospital and public records were kept. I am
Posts: 1419

sure some of these older poets have accurate data because they often were from educated and privileged
families, but some are likely innaccurate. So any conclusions are iffy at best.
I did notice the lack of women in your sample. So I did a quick look at 2 contemporary women poets and 2
historical to see if your theory seems to hold. Not one has the chart ruler in H1. What I see is aprominence/emphasis/ H3 and H5 activity of H3 andl emphasis.

Here are the 4:
Emily Dickinson h ASC The rulers then being E or J which are conjunct inH5 ina. She was a recluse so had
little life involvement/experience. Her H3 ruler is on the MC and mK. She is widely considered on of America's
great poets.
Elizabeth Barrett Browning: Also h ASC making ruler either E or J which are also conjunct as in the Emily
Dickinson chart but in H6 in l and in a stellium with CA.
Maya Angelou:

e ASC so A is ruler it falls in H9 mF in a. H3 ruler is C which is mD in l and her B is on

the H3 cusp.
Joni Mitchell:d ASC which makes the ruler the B which is on her MC in l. H3 ruler is the A which falls in

H5 mC. F is on H3 cusp.
I also took a quick look at the charts of Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen and ee cummings. Only the Cohen has his
H1 ruler in H1.
What is the influence a H1 ruler in H1? That is an interesting question. I suspect it contributes to subjectivity in
one's outlook or exaggerated/extreme personae which could contribute to a distinctive style of expression orworldview - definitely an asset for creative endeavors. Also a strong desire to express and create.
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ganglion
Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #12 - on: 26.09.2018 at 00:20 [UT+1] »Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:23 [UT+1]:
What do you mean by "only"? That is a huge over presentation! I am aware of selection bias. The purpose of these "top N" lists is tocounter and avoid cherry picking.

Using an external list like this is indeed a proper way to avoid cherry-picking (selection bias). Because thecontent of the list was not designed by you and most important here, it did not use astrological criteria (like sooften happens when astrologers consciously or unconsciously memorise striking cases).
Next problem is to retrieve the astrological data. Its is a correct way to use the ADB for this. Without doubt,
Rodden started the project to facilitate astrological research. The criteria for being included and ranked in it asa poet is not a selection (bias) based on astrological presumptions, but on open source Wikipedia likeknowledge (categories) and most importantly, the not on astrological presumptions depending reliability of thebirth date sources (core birth data: name, place, date, time, source). For this reason rectified charts without
any time source have today a low X status.
But well documented AA charts (based on municipal birth records , family bibles) and other close (we mayhope) objective recordings of witnesses of the birth often lack the precision to be useful in progressive
techniques. With a birth time given in a precision of one hour, the ascendant and other house positions, could
shift sign and also could a fast moving planet as the moon.
For this reason you ALWAYS need large data samples, given the 11 degrees of freedom and the imprecision ofmost AA times, to do astrological research that meets scientific criteria.
To give you an idea of the real magnitudes of the astrological effects with larger data samples, I made a
astrological profile of some 1041 poets using my database in radix5:
Sun signs were not statistically relevant (but still could yield tendencies).
Only Venus (fits a poet) and the slower planets made sense (Neptune being most significant, fits Zeitgeist, likethe recurring Romantic periods).
And also Sun (more likely in 1, 3, 4, 5, 12), Mercury (more likely in 1, 3, 4, and again 12) and Lilith in House(higher in 2 and 11 ) yielded significant results using chi-square tests with 11 degrees of freedom.
For me this a good reason to go on with this kind of astrological research (indeed with the aim to improve
astrology, to start with doing better and more quantitative astrological research).
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poets1041.pdf
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ganglion

Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #13 - on: 26.09.2018 at 00:59 [UT+1] »Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 21:26 [UT+1]:
It's not so simple to calculate of the probability of having the chart ruler in ascending sign as signs ascending times varies. However, we
can make a rough estimate. Assuming even distribution of rising signs and sign positions for planets, we can make a calculation like this
(1/12 x 1/12) x 12=1/12. So the probability of having the chart ruler in ascending sign is about 0.083. Expected value ("Chart ruler inrising sign") is therefore 15 x 0.0833=1.25. The true number in this data is 8, so there's 6.4 fold over presentation. There is some error in
the estimate, but some of the errors cancel each others at least to certain extent, which works in favor of credibility of this estimate. We
can continue this exercise and calculate the probability for this by using permutations. A p-value and probability for this kind of overpresentationis 0.0000089=~1/110 000. How about that! A very low figure is obtained, which is nice, because in situations like this welike small numbers. The lower, the better. This one is so low that I wonder if there's an error in calculations. The number of poets is small,but as stated, this a mini-study, and probably not so scientific, but more demonstrative in its nature.

I very much appreciate you started this thread. As this is a genuine attempt to start more objective reasoningin astrology by doing original research and DARING to share your observations. I cannot follow the above(need more time to check/grasp it), and I do no expect that you can do or make sense of a p-value in thissmall sample with many (at least 11 degrees) of freedom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value
But I appreciate your attempt (question)!
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TIMESTAMPS: 00:56 1. Who am I? 02:19 2. Where am I? 02:59 3. Why I am here? 04:01 4. What do I intend to do about that?

I wished some expert like David Cochrane joined the board.
David Cochrane - An Introduction to Astrological Research Methods
https://www.isarastrology.org/news/209/david-cochrane-an-introduction-to-astrolo gicalresearch-methods
Why Many Scientists Consider Astrology to Be a Pseudoscience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNc7lxouWLc

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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study

ganglion
Ex Member« Reply #14 - on: 26.09.2018 at 01:14 [UT+1] »A great libra poet popped up today: Eliot, T.S.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eliot,_T.S.
Quote:
American-British poet, playwright, literary critic and editor; he was a leader of the modernistic movement in poetry. Eliot was awarded
both the British Order of Merit and the Nobel Prize for Literature.

An Obsession with Time in Selected Works of T. S. Eliot as a Major Modernist
http://www.worldscientificnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/WSN-52-2016-207-21 5.pdf
Does Astrology Work - Sadhguru's Talks - Spiritual Life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NhqRVcPbQE
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tckutlu

Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #15 - on: 26.09.2018 at 01:28 [UT+1] »Quote from ganglion on 26.09.2018 at 00:59 [UT+1]:
I very much appreciate you started this thread. As this is a genuine attempt to start more objective reasoning in astrology by doingoriginal research and DARING to share your observations. I cannot follow the above (need more time to check/grasp it), and I do no
expect that you can do or make sense of a p-value in this small sample with many (at least 11 degrees) of freedom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value
I wished some expert like David Cochrane joined the board.
David Cochrane - An Introduction to Astrological Research Methods
https://www.isarastrology.org/news/209/david-cochrane-an-introduction-to-astrolo gical-research-methods
Why Many Scientists Consider Astrology to Be a Pseudoscience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNc7lxouWLc
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/P_values.png

Dear ganglion,
You are inspiring those people like me who have not enough knowledge on statistics. Thank you very much.
And also thanks to you Alchemist777 for opening such a thread like this.
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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study

ganglion
Ex Member« Reply #16 - on: 26.09.2018 at 01:30 [UT+1] »Quote from thelivingsky on 25.09.2018 at 23:43 [UT+1]:
What is the influence a H1 ruler in H1? That is an interesting question. I suspect it contributes to subjectivity in one's outlook or
exaggerated/extreme personae which could contribute to a distinctive style of expression or worldview - definitely an asset for creative
endeavors. Also a strong desire to express and create.

Maybe it correlates to being more likely to be active to express yourself. But that fits (famous) politicians aswell as poets.
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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study

ganglion

Ex Member« Reply #17 - on: 26.09.2018 at 01:40 [UT+1] »Quote from tckutlu on 26.09.2018 at 01:28 [UT+1]:
Dear ganglion,
You are inspiring those people like me who have not enough knowledge on statistics. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Other forum members tried (and succeeded) to kick me out the forum because they saw mycontributions as not contributing to their view on astrology (they considered me as an enemy of astrology,
because my findings did not fit their view of astrology). So my contributions were labelled as just stalking(trolling) them.
How to control non stop thoughts? | Sadhguru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4oWRg1KKlk
1
2
3
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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study

tckutlu
Ex Member« Reply #18 - on: 26.09.2018 at 01:54 [UT+1] »Quote from ganglion on 26.09.2018 at 01:40 [UT+1]:
Quote from tckutlu on 26.09.2018 at 01:28 [UT+1]:
Dear ganglion,
You are inspiring those people like me who have not enough knowledge on statistics. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Other forum members tried (and succeeded) to kick me out the forum because they saw my contributions as not contributing
to their view on astrology (they considered me as an enemy of astrology, because my findings did not fit their view of astrology). So mycontributions were labelled as just stalking them.
How to control non stop thoughts? | Sadhguru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4oWRg1KKlk
1
2
3

Whatever others think, for me, the way you approach astrology is much more reliable.
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ganglion

Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #19 - on: 26.09.2018 at 01:57 [UT+1] »The 4 Fundamental Questions Of Life | Neale Donald Walsch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbcNfQzDa1Q&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+4+Fundamental+Questions+Of+Life+%7C+Neale+Donald+Walsch
Be Divine
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+Neale+Donald+Walsch+be+devine
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tckutlu
Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #20 - on: 26.09.2018 at 02:18 [UT+1] »Quote from ganglion on 26.09.2018 at 01:57 [UT+1]:
The 4 Fundamental Questions Of Life | Neale Donald Walsch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbcNfQzDa1Q&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+4+Fundamental+Questions+Of+Life+ %7C+Neale+Donald+WalschThanks for the videos of Neale Donald Walsch.
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Alchemist777

Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #21 - on: 26.09.2018 at 12:55 [UT+1] »Quote from thelivingsky on 25.09.2018 at 23:43 [UT+1]:
Alchemist,
I am always skeptical of rising sign data for persons born before hospital and public records were kept. I am sure some of these older
poets have accurate data because they often were from educated and privileged families, but some are likely innaccurate. So any

Posts: 1212

conclusions are iffy at best.
I did notice the lack of women in your sample. So I did a quick look at 2 contemporary women poets and 2 historical to see if your theory
seems to hold. Not one has the chart ruler in H1. What I see is a prominence/emphasis/ H3 and H5 activity of H3 andl emphasis.

Here are the 4:
Emily Dickinsonh ASC The rulers then being E or J which are conjunct inH5 ina. She was a recluse so had little life
mK. She is widely considered on of America's great poets.

involvement/experience. Her H3 ruler is on the MC andElizabeth Barrett Browning: Alsoh ASC making ruler either E or J which are also conjunct as in the Emily Dickinson chart but in H6 inl and in a stellium with CA.
Maya Angelou:
Joni Mitchell:e ASC so A is ruler it falls in H9 mF in a. H3 ruler is C which is mD in l and her B is on the H3 cusp.

d ASC which makes the ruler the B which is on her MC in l. H3 ruler is the A which falls in H5 mC. F is on H3 cusp.

I also took a quick look at the charts of Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen and ee cummings. Only the Cohen has his H1 ruler in H1.
What is the influence a H1 ruler in H1? That is an interesting question. I suspect it contributes to subjectivity in one's outlook or
exaggerated/extreme personae which could contribute to a distinctive style of expression or worldview - definitely an asset for creative
endeavors. Also a strong desire to express and create.

thelivinsky,
If the observations are valid, if the chart ruler is really more often in rising sign among poets, the inaccurate
birth data is not a problem in a sense that inaccurate birth data would yield to over representation. On thecontrary the inaccurate birth data most likely yields to relative under representation.
Obviously not every poet has AC ruler in AC sign. Maybe that configuration represents general "poetpersonality" type, but not all poets are alike. Perhaps this was what you also suggested? And there may beother configurations that do practically the same etc. Maybe the results were better if were could divide poets in
categories in accordance to their personality types. Be that as it may, I think there might be more in the chart
ruler data. Is there something going on related to chart ruler's angular positions and/or chart ruler's aspects?

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Alchemist777
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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #22 - on: 26.09.2018 at 13:25 [UT+1] »Quote from ganglion on 26.09.2018 at 00:20 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 22:23 [UT+1]:
What do you mean by "only"? That is a huge over presentation! I am aware of selection bias. The purpose of these "top N"
lists is to counter and avoid cherry picking.

Posts: 1212

Using an external list like this is indeed a proper way to avoid cherry-picking (selection bias). Because the content of the list was notdesigned by you and most important here, it did not use astrological criteria (like so often happens when astrologers consciously or
unconsciously memorise striking cases).
Next problem is to retrieve the astrological data. Its is a correct way to use the ADB for this. Without doubt, Rodden started the project tofacilitate astrological research. The criteria for being included and ranked in it as a poet is not a selection (bias) based on astrologicalpresumptions, but on open source Wikipedia like knowledge (categories) and most importantly, the not on astrological presumptions
depending reliability of the birth date sources (core birth data: name, place, date, time, source). For this reason rectified charts without
any time source have today a low X status.
But well documented AA charts (based on municipal birth records , family bibles) and other close (we may hope) objective recordings of
witnesses of the birth often lack the precision to be useful in progressive techniques. With a birth time given in a precision of one hour, theascendant and other house positions, could shift sign and also could a fast moving planet as the moon.
For this reason you ALWAYS need large data samples, given the 11 degrees of freedom and the imprecision of most AA times, to do
astrological research that meets scientific criteria.
To give you an idea of the real magnitudes of the astrological effects with larger data samples, I made a astrological profile of some 1041
poets using my database in radix5:
Sun signs were not statistically relevant (but still could yield tendencies).
Only Venus (fits a poet) and the slower planets made sense (Neptune being most significant, fits Zeitgeist, like the recurring Romantic
periods).
And also Sun (more likely in 1, 3, 4, 5, 12), Mercury (more likely in 1, 3, 4, and again 12) and Lilith in House (higher in 2 and 11 )yielded significant results using chi-square tests with 11 degrees of freedom.
For me this a good reason to go on with this kind of astrological research (indeed with the aim to improve astrology, to start with doing
better and more quantitative astrological research).

The way I see it, there are two ways (that can also be combined) of doing this. One is to focus on the absolute
top, where the astrological effects are presumably the most evident, look at the data and maybe do somepreliminary calculations. This is what I have done. The second option is to use as big data as possible andcrunch numbers. The first option also serves this option. Currently I prefer the first option as currently mychances for option 2 are limited, and on the other hand, I also find heuristic to look at the charts and meditatethem.
I think that when moving away from the absolute top the astrological effects dilute. It may be that the overrepresentation was partly a coincident from the beginning or it was related only to absolute peak performances.
If the effect is to stay when using bigger data, I think the data could look like graph below. Graph is an
illustration of Ray Murphy's study, where it was found that French liberation fighters had more often than
expected Moon in Capricorn. I added red and blue arrows to the graph. The red arrow shows that at the
beginning the over representation was 350 % and the blue arrow shows that when adding more cases the overrepresentation stabilized at circa 50 % level. If the poets really have the chart ruler more often in AC sign, andmore poets were studied, the over representation percentage could be something like that.
It would interesting to see what the results would be if the chart ruler position were studied in that large
selection of poets. With respect to Lilith and its house positions I think it could be related to the "push away"
effect of AC. I.e that position near the AC would be unfit for poets, so in case of poets the AC "pushes" Lilithaway - > over representation in the nearby houses.

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overrepresentation_000001.png

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Alchemist777

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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #23 - on: 26.09.2018 at 13:36 [UT+1] »Quote from ganglion on 26.09.2018 at 00:59 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 25.09.2018 at 21:26 [UT+1]:
It's not so simple to calculate of the probability of having the chart ruler in ascending sign as signs ascending times varies.
However, we can make a rough estimate. Assuming even distribution of rising signs and sign positions for planets, we canmake a calculation like this (1/12 x 1/12) x 12=1/12. So the probability of having the chart ruler in ascending sign is

Posts: 1212

about 0.083. Expected value ("Chart ruler in rising sign") is therefore 15 x 0.0833=1.25. The true number in this data is 8,
so there's 6.4 fold over presentation. There is some error in the estimate, but some of the errors cancel each others atleast to certain extent, which works in favor of credibility of this estimate. We can continue this exercise and calculate theprobability for this by using permutations. A p-value and probability for this kind of over presentationis
0.0000089=~1/110 000. How about that! A very low figure is obtained, which is nice, because in situations like this welike small numbers. The lower, the better. This one is so low that I wonder if there's an error in calculations. The number ofpoets is small, but as stated, this a mini-study, and probably not so scientific, but more demonstrative in its nature.
I very much appreciate you started this thread. As this is a genuine attempt to start more objective reasoning in astrology by doingoriginal research and DARING to share your observations. I cannot follow the above (need more time to check/grasp it), and I do no
expect that you can do or make sense of a p-value in this small sample with many (at least 11 degrees) of freedom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value
But I appreciate your attempt (question)!
The 4 Fundamental Questions Of Life | Neale Donald Walsch
http://youtu.be/RbcNfQzDa1Q
Quote:
Neale shares 4 profound questions about redefining your true existence on this planet. Asking them daily from yourself will
make you see every day as a precious gift and a new found opportunity. Learn more here: http://pxlme.me/suGMjvY4********** IMPORTANT TIMESTAMPS: 00:56 1. Who am I? 02:19 2. Where am I? 02:59 3. Why I am here? 04:01 4. What
do I intend to do about that?

I wished some expert like David Cochrane joined the board.
David Cochrane - An Introduction to Astrological Research Methods
https://www.isarastrology.org/news/209/david-cochrane-an-introduction-to-astrolo gical-research-methods
Why Many Scientists Consider Astrology to Be a Pseudoscience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNc7lxouWLc
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/P_values.png

I checked the calculations and found no error. The used formula was "n choose k"*p^(k)*(1-p)^(n-k), where n("number of poets) is 15 and k (number of poets who have chart ruler in rising sign) is 8, p ("probability of
having chart ruler in rising sign") is 1/12. So in this case: "15 choose 8" x (1/12)^8 x (11/12)^7 and you get
probability to have 8 positives by chance. We add also probabilities of 9 or more positives as what want toknow what would be the probability to have 8 positives or more by chance.
Those who are interested in knowing how these probabilities are calculated can read more here:
https://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1469647541/150#150
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tckutlu
Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #24 - on: 26.09.2018 at 14:56 [UT+1] »Dear Alchemist,
If I understood you correctly your saying like this:P(rising ruler in rising) = 1 / 12
Total subject = 15Case 1 = Observed people that rising ruler in rising sign = 8
P(Case 1) = (1 / 12) ^ 8
Case 2 = Observed people that rising ruler not in rising sign = 7
P(Case 2) = (11 / 12) ^ 7
P(rising ruler in rising according to the above) = (1 / 12) ^ 8 × (11 / 12) ^ 7
So the probabilty is so low but this probabilty is happened therefore your claim is 'poets often have rising ruler
in rising'.
Please correct me if i am wrong.
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Alchemist777

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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #25 - on: 26.09.2018 at 15:03 [UT+1] »Quote from tckutlu on 26.09.2018 at 14:56 [UT+1]:
Dear Alchemist,
If I understood you correctly your saying like this:P(rising ruler in rising) = 1 / 12

Posts: 1212

Total subject is = 15Case 1 = Observed people that rising ruler in rising sign = 8
P(Case 1) = (1 / 12) ^ 8
Case 2 = Observed people that rising sign not in rising sign = 7
P(Case 2) = (11 / 12) ^ 7
P(rising sign in rising according to the above) = (1 / 12) ^ 8 × (11 / 12) ^ 7
So the probabilty is so low but this probabilty is happened therefore your claim is 'poets often have rising sign in rising'.
Please correct me if i am wrong.

Observation was that among the studied poets Chart ruler was unusually often in rising sign.
So your calculation is correct except to you still have to multiply the figure you obtain by "15 choose 8" which
is 6435.
For example if you use this calculator press "15" then "ncr", then "8" and then ")" and finally "=". That gives you
the number of combinations which in this case is 6435.
https://web2.0calc.com/
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Roland303
Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #26 - on: 26.09.2018 at 15:14 [UT+1] »Alchemist, you can't draw accurate results with 15 charts, multiply that number for at least 4 times, and you'll
have a more accurate picture.
It's very interesting that a good half of those people have one aspect in common, but that could be just a
coincidence, or an aspect that all "top ranked" people, in any speciality, have.
It would be cool if you could erase these doubts, you can create a control group out of a little sample of otherrandom people from other categories, use it to compare to the poets results you get.
Posts: 1244

Keep it up!

(Thanks a lot to Ganglion for sharing those results! noiceee**, did you use all the poets of the ADB?!)
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ganglion

Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #27 - on: 26.09.2018 at 16:07 [UT+1] »Quote from Alchemist777 on 26.09.2018 at 15:03 [UT+1]:
Observation was that among the studied poets Chart ruler was unusually often in rising sign.
So your calculation is correct except to you still have to multiply the figure you obtain by "15 choose 8" which is 6435.
For example if you use this calculator press "15" then "ncr", then "8" and then ")" and finally "=". That gives you the number of
combinations which in this case is 6435.
https://web2.0calc.com/

The observation is correct . The sample choice was not cherry picked using astrological criteria.
But the problem is that the sample is much too small to infer statistical conclusions from it.
And maybe the largest problem is that you "test" an hypothesis that you already had observed using population
members where you have observed it!
FI I remember Trump had something with Mars. O yes, observing the chart it was Mars rising. Actually Em Asc
in e. Wow!
Now I want to test the hypothesis of having Em Asc under top presidents is more likely than expected. The
correct way to do so is to look at charts of other top presidents, excluding that of Trump (Trump would say,that this cannot be done as I am the only one.
In a sample of 10 presidents including Trump, maybe we get one other case where this kind of Mars rising
applies. Then we observe having Mars rising under Presidents in 2 cases, which is much more often than
expected. Even when the other presidents do not have this feature and Trump was the only case, finding aclose Em Asc under 10 presidents (1in 10) will be more often than expected in the general population. Do you
see the fallacy?

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Alchemist777
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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #28 - on: 26.09.2018 at 17:56 [UT+1] »Quote from ganglion on 26.09.2018 at 16:07 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 26.09.2018 at 15:03 [UT+1]:

Observation was that among the studied poets Chart ruler was unusually often in
rising sign.
Posts: 1212

So your calculation is correct except to you still have to multiply the figure you obtain by "15 choose 8" which is 6435.
For example if you use this calculator press "15" then "ncr", then "8" and then ")" and finally "=". That gives you thenumber of combinations which in this case is 6435.
https://web2.0calc.com/
The observation is correct . The sample choice was not cherry picked using astrological criteria.
But the problem is that the sample is much too small to infer statistical conclusions from it.
And maybe the largest problem is that you "test" an hypothesis that you already had observed using population members where you haveobserved it!

Em Asc in e. Wow!
Em Asc under top presidents is more likely than expected. The correct way to do so is to look

FI I remember Trump had something with Mars. O yes, observing the chart it was Mars rising. Actually
Now I want to test the hypothesis of having

at charts of other top presidents, excluding that of Trump (Trump would say, that this cannot be done as I am the only one.

In a sample of 10 presidents including Trump, maybe we get one other case where this kind of Mars rising applies. Then we observe
having Mars rising under Presidents in 2 cases, which is much more often than expected. Even when the other presidents do not have thisfeature and Trump was the only case, finding a close
Asc under 10 presidents (1in 10) will be more often than expected in the generalEmpopulation. Do you see the fallacy?

I didn't test hypothesis as I didn't have one. I made an observation that the poet's seem to have the chart ruler
unusually often in ascending sign. Then I tried to estimate how significant/meaningful is over representationwas. The probability calculation was done in order to succeed in this. It seems that these "problems" (a critic)
arise at least partly because readers attribute to this mini-study more than there was. In open post it wasstated that this mini-study is "probably not so scientific, but more demonstrative in its nature".
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Alchemist777

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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #29 - on: 26.09.2018 at 18:26 [UT+1] »Quote from Roland303 on 26.09.2018 at 15:14 [UT+1]:
Alchemist, you can't draw accurate results with 15 charts, multiply that number for at least 4 times, and you'll have a more accurate
picture.
It's very interesting that a good half of those people have one aspect in common, but that could be just a coincidence, or an aspect that

Posts: 1212

all "top ranked" people, in any speciality, have.
It would be cool if you could erase these doubts, you can create a control group out of a little sample of other random people from othercategories, use it to compare to the poets results you get.
Keep it up!

The purpose of this "mini-study" was not to do rigorous research, or maybe any kind of research. Depending
what criteria you have for "research", there are many kind of research. I thought that the open post was quite
explicit about the nature of this mini-study. Sure, it would be interesting to do a more throughout study, butthen we have these time constraints and the opportunity costs etc. Meanwhile, we have "mini-studies".
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Roland303
Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #30 - on: 26.09.2018 at 18:34 [UT+1] »Well mine was only a suggestion, I think it's an interesting research, but it requires more data if you want todraw conclusions.

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PhoenixNoodleSoup

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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #31 - on: 26.09.2018 at 19:11 [UT+1] »https://www.astro.com/wiki/astro-databank/index.php?title=Special:Search&sea
rch=category+vocation+writers+poet&profile=default&searchToken=42l0zjth5a25ky200v5a0g10f

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ganglion
Ex Member

Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #32 - on: 26.09.2018 at 19:56 [UT+1] »Quote from Alchemist777 on 26.09.2018 at 17:56 [UT+1]:
I didn't test hypothesis as I didn't have one. I made an observation that the poet's seem to have the chart ruler unusually often inascending sign. Then I tried to estimate how significant/meaningful is over presentation was. The probability calculation was done in orderto succeed in this. It seems that these "problems" (a critic) arise at least partly because readers attribute to this mini-study more thanthere was. In open post it was stated that this mini-study is "probably not so scientific, but more demonstrative in its nature".

I think all participantants in this thread were happy with your initiative. The idea is to do the observations
yourself, instead of studying astrology books for expert opinions. And you showed a way to do this. The
problem with most astrology books is that they are abundant in tentative sayings (derived from astrologicalcore believes, suppositions), but scant in research and proof.
So, observations like you did are very valuable. They help us to see patterns and these patterns can aid
astrologers in hypothesis formation. But hypothesis testing requires larger groups (case and control) and rigid
methodology. The results are typically less striking than astrology books suggest. They typically draw theirconclusions from theoretical suppositions, not from research (they do not even mention it). If I have somemore time I will test your hypothesis using Radix5
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Alchemist777

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Re: Poets's Chart Ruler Mini-study« Reply #33 - on: 27.09.2018 at 11:39 [UT+1] »Quote from ganglion on 26.09.2018 at 19:56 [UT+1]:
Quote from Alchemist777 on 26.09.2018 at 17:56 [UT+1]:
I didn't test hypothesis as I didn't have one. I made an observation that the poet's seem to have the chart ruler unusuallyoften in ascending sign. Then I tried to estimate how significant/meaningful is over presentation was. The probability
calculation was done in order to succeed in this. It seems that these "problems" (a critic) arise at least partly because

Posts: 1212

readers attribute to this mini-study more than there was. In open post it was stated that this mini-study is "probably notso scientific, but more demonstrative in its nature".
I think all participantants in this thread were happy with your initiative. The idea is to do the observations yourself, instead of studying
astrology books for expert opinions. And you showed a way to do this. The problem with most astrology books is that they are abundant intentative sayings (derived from astrological core believes, suppositions), but scant in research and proof.
So, observations like you did are very valuable. They help us to see patterns and these patterns can aid astrologers in hypothesis
formation. But hypothesis testing requires larger groups (case and control) and rigid methodology. The results are typically less striking
than astrology books suggest. They typically draw their conclusions from theoretical suppositions, not from research (they do not evenmention it). If I have some more time I will test your hypothesis using Radix5

In my mind, some kind of justification/argument is better than no argument at all. We're on a discussion forum
after all. There is a surplus of unjustified astrological claims, which is ok, as it would be counterproductive to
ask for justification to everything. Personally I find more or less justified claims more interesting than just"opinions". But opinions too can be quite interesting, as everybody has at least potentially the unique way ofseeing things.
Astrology is not the perfect fit to the procedures of standard science. For example, it seems that astrologicaleffects are more easily seen in the absolute top performances. And there's a very limited amount of those, they
are like oil or other non-renewable resources. You just have that the amount you have and nothing more. Or
there will be new resources but the renewal process is very, very slow. So only way to obtain the bigger data is
to combine the different groups of peak performances. In which case one may have a general "peakperformance", but not much more.
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