Playing for the Same Team Again
Matthew H. Slater & Achille C. Varzi
Columbia University[Published in J. L. Walls and G. Bassham (eds.), Basketball and Philosophy. Thinking Outside the Paint,
Lexington (KY): University Press of Kentucky, 2007, pp. 220–234]

The following is a transcript of what might very well have been five telephone conversations between Michael Jordan and former Chicago Bulls coach Phil Jackson in early
March 1995, just before the announcement of MJ’s comeback after a year spent pursuing a baseball career.

Day One: The Conditional Comeback
Phil:

Hello?

Mike:

Hey Phil, it’s me. Is this a bad time?

Phil:

It’s never a bad time, as long as I’m not deep in meditation. I was just visualizing our next game. What’s up?

Mike:

Still thinking about my comeback.

Phil:

Come on Michael, give it a break. It’ll be just like old times. Two words: Repeat Threepeat. Heck, why stop there? We’ll stamp out championship trophies
like a factory, trust me.

Mike:

I just can’t help wondering. With no Horace, B. J., Bill, Scott . . . is it really going to be the same team?1 You know how important that is for me.

Phil:

Getting philosophical in your old age, huh?

Mike:Time away from basketball got me thinking. If I’m going to be part of the teamagain, shouldn’t I know what the team really is—whether it’ll really be thesame team as before?

Phil:

Some might say that you’re the team. But what do you suppose a team is?

1

Horace Grant, B. J. Armstrong, Bill Cartwright, and Scott Williams all left the Bulls during or after the 1994–1995
season.

1

Mike:

I’d say that we’re the team: all twelve of us, even JoJo.2

Phil:

I’ll pretend you said “all thirteen of us, including our beloved coach and spiritual leader.”Mike:

That’s what I meant.

Phil:

Well, in that case, let me tell you: in a way your worry is warranted. If teams
are just their players (and coaches), then it might seem that you can’t ever playon the same team if the players aren’t the same.

Mike:

So I was right? We won’t really be the same?

Phil:

It depends on what you mean by “same.”

Mike:Don’t get all Clinton-y on me, now.

Phil:

No really—think about it. “Being the same” is ambiguous. Things can be qualitatively the same or numerically the same. Our trophies are indistinguishable,
except for their inscriptions: in other words, they’re qualitatively the same. But
they’re not the same trophy: they are distinct. Numerically distinct trophies canbe qualitatively identical. The question it seems you want answered is whether athing can change yet be literally one and the same thing.

Mike:

Right. How can it? If a team is just its players (and coach), how could it survive
gaining or losing any of them? I’ll tell Krause3 that I’ll come back only if it’sgonna be the same team, okay? If we get everyone back together, I’ll play.

Phil:

So you think that having the same players is a sufficient condition for having
the same team? That if you have the same players, you’d have the same team?

Mike:

I guess that’s what I’m saying. But now that I think about it, I figure it depends
on you as much as Krause.

Phil:

How so?

Mike:

Well, you decide who plays what position. Even if we had all the same players,
if you ran Cartwright at point guard and me at center, we’d have a problem.
We’d lose (and you’d get fired)—and people might not recognize us as thesame team. So perhaps merely having the same players back together isn’t sufficient after all; we need them playing in the same positions.

2
3

JoJo English, an undrafted journeyman player not known for his offence.
Jerry Krause, general manager of the Bulls from 1985 to 2003.

2

Phil:

I can guarantee that I’d never try Bill at point (I’ll tell you about this nightmare
I had sometime), but I can’t guarantee that I won’t make some minor adjustments. Remember when Doug Collins moved you to shooting guard and had
B. J. Armstrong run point? Did that destroy the team or just make it better?

Mike:

Ah, Doug . . . now he was a superstar’s coach! “Give Michael the ball and standback” he’d say. I hope that I get to play for him again someday. You know, I
don’t think I . . .

Phil:

Ahem!

Mike:

Sorry. Okay, I see the point: My “same players, same positions” criterion might
be a bit strict: but it’s hard to deny that it’s a sufficient condition for team identity. If we have the very same players in the very same positions, that’s definitely enough for it to be the same old team.

Phil:

Granted. I guess now we also need to know what the necessary conditions arefor your comeback. What minimum conditions must we meet for it to be thesame team and to get you back?

Mike:

It figures that you’d want both necessary and sufficient conditions.4 I’ll talk to
my agent and get back to you.

Day Two: Teams Change
Mike:

Hi Phil.

Phil:

Hi, Michael. Come to any conclusions?

Mike:

My agent wasn’t very helpful. He kept suggesting I ask the Jerrys to “show me
the money.”5 But I think I’m going to stick to the strict criterion: it’ll be thesame team if and only if we have the same players playing the same positions.

Phil:

Okay, but even if we managed it, the team wouldn’t last for long.

Mike:

Change is inevitable, I suppose.

Phil:

Sounds like you wanna be like Heraclitus.

4

In philosophical lingo, a “necessary condition” is something that must be present in order for something else to exist
or take place. Being on the roster, for example, is a necessary condition of being a starter. A “sufficient condition,” on
the other hand, is something that is all that is needed for something else to exist or take place. Thus, in the NBA having six personal fouls is a sufficient condition for getting expelled from a game; so is head-butting a referee.
5
Presumably Jerry Reinsdorf (the owner of the Bulls) and Jerry Krause (their general manager).

3

Mike:

Who?

Phil:

Heraclitus. An ancient Greek philosopher who thought that change was the only
constant. He said that one could never step twice in the same river since the water would always be different.6

Mike:

Exactly!

Phil:

Of course, even if the water stayed the same, you could never step twice in thesame river since you are constantly changing too.

Mike:

What do you mean?

Phil:

How tall are you?

Mike:

Six-six.

Phil:

But you weren’t born that tall. Remember that little boy in North Carolina cut
from his high school team who was shorter than six feet?

Mike:

I’m so tired of that story.

Phil:

But it’s a story about you, right?

Mike:

I suppose you’re gonna tell me it’s not? That since I’ve changed—like the riverwater—I’m not really the same person?

Phil:

I’m not telling you that. But if you think that rivers and teams can’t survive anychange of their parts, why think that people can survive such changes? You arequalitatively different from that little boy in North Carolina. Why think that you
really are that boy?

Mike:Well, for one, my changes have all been gradual. I didn’t go from five-eight tosix-six overnight. When I left the NBA in ’93, though, the team was radicallyand suddenly changed. It’d be as if someone replaced your brain—no one cansurvive that kind of drastic change.

Phil:

I’m not sure I buy the analogy, but we’re getting there. Surely teams too cansurvive gradual change, like other things. Perhaps what matters is not losing too
many players all at once. Of course, if Krause went nuts and decided to replace

6

So says Plato in Cratylus 402A (Heraclitus’s “Fragment 41”). But perhaps Phil means to say that you can step twicein the same river, though not in the same water? That is what Heraclitus himself seems to have said, according to otherdoxographic reports (“Fragment 12”, from Arius Didymus).

4

all the players on the team before the season began, he’d have a different teamon his hands, right? But players retire and new ones get drafted and traded all
the time. None of those sorts of changes seem significant enough to affect the
team’s identity (present company excepted).
Mike:

Thanks. Okay, maybe you’re right. So while the “same players, same positions”
condition is sufficient for team identity, it’s not necessary. Some degree ofchange is unavoidable and acceptable, as long as it’s gradual and continuous.

Phil:

It seems to be the norm, in fact.

Mike:

But what if the change becomes total? What if every player is gradually replaced until none of the original players are left?

Phil:

For all we’ve said, it could still be the same team, so long as those changes weremade slowly enough. Even you, Michael, constantly lose and replace cells all
the time. As a result, your body probably has none of the same parts it had when
you were a little boy.

Mike:

So you think continuity, even when it results in a complete change in parts, is anecessary condition for team identity?

Phil:

Perhaps. But I’m not so sure: It’s not even clear that all abrupt changes in players should result in a team change. Suppose the whole team was lost in a tragic
airplane crash. Most people would probably regard the team as going on in spiteof this loss.

Mike:

Let’s not speculate about that.

Phil:

It was just a thought. These matters are not easily settled. Perhaps if Krause
fired everyone, the team might survive by virtue of the new players pursuing thesame goal in the same way (running the triangle offence, playing tenacious D,
bringing home the trophy, and so on).

Mike:

What worries me now is that a lot seems to depend on Krause—on whether hewants to make the changes in the right way. I’m gonna call him and explain all
this to him.

Day Three: Traveling
Mike:

Phil?

Phil:

Hi, Michael.
5Mike:

Answer me honestly: do I travel?

Phil:

Michael, I think that life is a great journey and that everyone is traveling.

Mike:

That’s not what I meant, and you know it. Anyway, listen, about the team:maybe we’re overthinking things. Say Krause fired us and replaced us with abunch of rookies. They’d still play in Chicago, they’d still wear white and red athome, and all that. Don’t you think it’d be the same team by virtue of playing inthe same city and being called the same name?

Phil:

Krause threatened to fire all of us, didn’t he?

Mike:

Oh yeah.

Phil:

He wouldn’t. But let’s think about the suggestion that location is what mattersfor team identity, rather than sameness of players and positions or continuity ofplayer change. Let me ask you: how many championships have the Lakers
won?

Mike:

Eleven, I think.7 They were an awesome team, but we’ll beat that record someday. Speaking of the Lakers, what’s up with that name? There weren’t any lakes
in LA last I checked. Or what about the Utah “Jazz”—I’ve never heard of muchof a scene there. And then there’s the Memphis Grizzlies. . . .

Phil:

Never heard of them.

Mike:

What am I talking about? Neither have I. Never mind.8

Phil:

Right. So I take it you’ve never heard of the Minneapolis Lakers or New Orleans Jazz either? Teams travel too, Michael. In Minnesota—“the Land of Ten
Thousand Lakes”—“Lakers” is a perfect name. So what if it doesn’t fit very
well in Los Angeles? It was move or lose their best players to financial trouble.
Likewise, we wouldn’t bat an eye if the New Orleans Jazz became the New
York Jazz.

Mike:

You’re right. Perhaps a team’s city isn’t as important as I thought.

Phil:

Perhaps. On the other hand . . .

Mike:What now?

7

Of course, this number is higher now. Remember, these phone calls took place in 1995.
Strange: Michael seems to know something about the Vancouver Grizzlies, an expansion team established in the
1995–1996 season that moved to Memphis in 2001, joining the ranks of oddly named teams.
86

Phil:As before, we can look at the situation in two ways: either the move to LA destroyed the Minneapolis Lakers and a new team with the same name was created in LA, or one and the same team just moved—like you might one day
move from Chicago to, say, Washington, D.C. In the first case, the Lakers havewon six championships; in the second, they’ve won eleven: six in LA, five in
Minneapolis.

Mike:

I’m a little torn. I want to say that the Lakers just moved, but then again, I can’t
imagine our team moving to Cheyenne or Cheboygan. Even if everyone camewith us (heck, even if Reinsdorf still owned it), it’d have a different feel, different home court, locker room, different fans—it’d be a different team.

Phil:Your loyalty is admirable, but maybe a little old-fashioned. Remember: in theearly days of basketball, some teams were only loosely, accidentally associatedwith cities. Often, they were extensions of corporations. The Detroit Pistons began their existence as the Zollner Pistons of Fort Wayne, Indiana—they literally
made pistons. Company owners like Fred Zollner would suit up factory workers
for a few games a week. A few “barnstorming” teams traveled from city to city
for a cut of the door. I heard of one owner who had “reversible” uniforms madeso he could bring the same team through the same venue twice. People didn’t
realize they were paying to watch the same players again in different uniforms.9

Mike:

I couldn’t do that as a player: I’ll always be number 23. Okay, so maybe thingsaren’t so simple. We’ve got to think about this some more.

Day Four: The Team of Theseus
Mike:

Hey, Phil. Listen, I’ve thought about it: I’m changing my number to 45.

Phil:

So you’re coming back?

Mike:

Yeah: I still believe the strict “same players, same positions” criterion is sufficient for team identity, but I agree: it’s not necessary. Nor is it the only sufficient condition. I think you’re right that the continuity criterion is fine too.

Phil:

The continuity criterion?

Mike:

The thought that things can survive change so long as it’s gradual enough. That
works fine for teams, too. Perhaps it’s not a necessary criterion, if you really be-

9

See Mark Stewart’s Basketball: A History of Hoops (New York: Franklin Watts, 1998), p. 48.

7lieve that a team can survive the sudden loss of all its players. But continuity
does seems sufficient for . . . what was it, arithmetical sameness?
Phil:

Numerical. You were interested in knowing whether the team we’re puttingback together and the team we had before are one and the same team, as opposed to two different teams.

Mike:That’s it: I promised myself that I would only ever play for one team.

Phil:

I wonder, though . . .

Mike:

What?

Phil:

Well, we have two sufficient conditions for team identity, right?

Mike:

Right, a strict criterion and a looser one, the continuity criterion. Teams cansurvive replacing a player or two every season even if it means eventuallychanging every player.

Phil:

Okay. But now imagine the following happens. Krause trades Horace one season, Scottie the next, Bill after that, and so on until all of the present team has
been traded away.10

Mike:

I just said I’ve come to accept change. It would still be the same team, as longas the trades were sufficiently gradual. That’s pretty much what happens toteams over time in the normal course of things, as with people who grow older
and change their body cells.

Phil:

But imagine that you were each gradually signed to an expansion team: call it
the “Cheboygan Boars.” So after a few years we would have two teams—theBulls, which have proceeded continuously through the years (getting slightly
worse each season) and then (suddenly) the Boars with a starting lineup of Michael, Scottie, Horace, B. J., and Bill—the familiar, championship-winninggroup.11

10

Evidently, Phil has read Plutarch’s Lives: “The thirty-oared galley in which Theseus sailed with the youths [to Creteon a mission to kill the Minotaur] was preserved by the Athenians down to the time of Demetrius of Phalerum. At
intervals they removed the old timbers and replaced them with sound ones, so that the ship became a classic illustration for the philosophers of the disputed question of growth and change, some of them arguing that it remained thesame, and others that it became a different vessel.” Plutarch, The Rise and Fall of Athens, translated by Ian ScottKilvert (Harmondsworth, UK: Penguin Books, 1960), pp. 28-29.
11
So Phil has read Thomas Hobbes, too: “If the ship of Theseus were continually repaired by the replacing of all theold planks with new, then — according to the Athenian philosophers — the later ship would be numerically identicalwith the original. But if some man had kept the old planks as they were taken out and were to assemble a ship of them,

8Mike:So?

Phil:

So the question is, which team is really the Bulls? The team in Chicago thatchanges only gradually through the years or the new team in Cheboygan thateventually comes to have all the same players as the Bulls do now? Each teammeets one of the two sufficient conditions you’ve suggested.

Mike:

Well, only one team would be named the Bulls. . . .

Phil:

But of course names can be misleading: a team can survive a mere name andlocation change just as a different team can adopt an old team’s name. To beclear, let’s call the team in Chicago after all the gradual trades are completed
the “Continuous Team.” Then the question is: are the Bulls identical with theBoars or with the Continuous Team?

Mike:

I see the problem.

Phil:

Good. So the Boars are now indistinguishable from the original Bulls: the players are exactly the same—the coach too, let’s suppose. They play like Bulls;
they win like Bulls. The Continuous Team, on the other hand, may be struggling dead last with not one recognizable player. But ordinarily—if there were
no expansion Boars—we’d regard the Continuous Team as the Bulls.

Mike:

Well, it might be a nice reunion to play with the guys again on the Boars, but I
don’t think I’d be playing for the same team. Yeah, it’d be the same group playing the same positions and such, but there’d be a weird gap in the team’s history. What would’ve happened to the Bulls in the meantime, before the Boars
were assembled?

Phil:

I suppose they wouldn’t have existed. But I’m not sure: what happens to a
watch when you take it apart and put it back together again? Does it cease to be
for a while, or does it exist in a scattered, nonticking state?

Mike:

Are you philosophers just interested in raising problems? You ever come up
with any answers?

Phil:

I’ve heard that before. But you must agree: not just any answer is a good answer.

Mike:

I suppose there has to be a fact of the matter one way or another. But anyway,then this ship would, also, without doubt be numerically identical with the original. And so there would be two ships,
existing at the same time, both of which would be numerically identical with the original. But this latter verdict isabsurd.” (De Corpore, part II, chap. 11, §7)9

the continuity criterion doesn’t force us to decide what it is. Let’s just drop thestrict criterion altogether. The Continuous Team would be the Bulls even if lastyear’s players were playing in Cheboygan.
Phil:

I still have my doubts. Consider this: The Bulls and the Pistons begin to trade
players with each other and . . .

Mike:Are you crazy!?

Phil:

It’s just an example—hear me out. Imagine that the trades happen as before, onea year. This year they exchange a power forward, next year a shooting guard,
the year after a center. Eventually all twelve players have been switched. Let
the coaches switch too, if you like. The change is gradual and your continuity
criterion is satisfied. Would you say that the teams have stayed put? That the
Pistons still play in Detroit and the Bulls in Chicago?

Mike:

Argh! I don’t know! I could never be a Piston, I know that.

Phil:

Nor could any self-respecting Bulls fans cheer for the Pistons. But they’d certainly root for you, Scottie, Horace, Bill, and Dennis—even if you happened toplay in Detroit. There’d be some years of confusion, to be sure (I can’t quite
picture you and Dumars together in the backcourt night after night).12 But in theend, I know which team I’d think of as the Bulls, even if some cruel twist offate had renamed them the Pistons. Think of it this way: If you and I gradually
exchanged all our furniture, wouldn’t you say that in the end your furniture justmoved to my place, and mine to yours?

Mike:

I suppose so.

Phil:

So if we see the Bulls and Pistons as gradually switching names and cities, thecontinuity criterion can’t be right.

Mike:

Strike three . . .

Day Five: Fan Loyalty?
Mike:

Phil?

Phil:

Knew it was gonna be you.

12

Jordan is said to have referred to Joe Dumars — a Detroit guard he repeatedly played against in several testy andclosely contested playoff series — as the best defender he ever faced.

10Mike:

Phil, do you really think that the fans would leave the Bulls for the Boars, oreven for the Pistons? (If we all moved to Detroit, that is.)Phil:

Seems like a serious possibility. Especially if the Continuous Bulls play poorly.

Mike:

So maybe we should take that into account. Is it the fans who decide who theBulls really are?

Phil:

That sounds a bit crude, but it’s worth considering. Certainly what the fans
think is not by itself enough to determine the identity of a team. If some madscientist from Detroit brainwashed Bulls fans to suddenly root for the Pistonsand speak of them as if they were the Bulls, that wouldn’t make the Bulls the
Pistons.

Mike:

That’s a little far-fetched.

Phil:

True, but we have to be willing to consider even odd scenarios in testing ourhypotheses. Anyway, you know how common it is for front-running fans to root
for a team only if it’s winning. Otherwise, if someday (David Stern13 forbid!)
the Bulls became a mediocre team and fan support waned, we’d have to regard
the team as being annihilated when it seems we should say that it just got worse
and lost its fans.

Mike:

But in a sense it would be a different team.

Phil:

In a sense, sure—but only a figurative sense. We’re after the literal, metaphysical sense. The team would be qualitatively different. But I have trouble seeing
fan opinion as either a necessary or sufficient condition for numerical team
identity.

Mike:

Maybe front-running fans are only figurative fans. Like false friends, they’re
not really friends. What if we say that a team is the same only if loyal fans continue to cheer for it?

Phil:“Only if”? I thought you weren’t interested in necessary conditions.

Mike:

Well, perhaps a bunch of necessary conditions will add up to a sufficient one. I
haven’t quite given up on continuity yet.

Phil:

Okay, but your new condition looks like it might be circular. Aren’t loyal fansprecisely those fans that continue to cheer for the same team (even if it begins
to lose)?

13

Commissioner of the NBA from 1984 to the present.

11Mike:

Say that again.

Phil:

We have to understand what it is to be a loyal fan in order to understand what it
is to be the same team, and vice versa. So we’re no closer to solving the problem.

Mike:

We are closer. We just need to find some other definition of fan loyalty. Anyway, that it’s circular doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

Phil:

True. Aristotle had a similar idea when it came to virtue: he thought that virtuous deeds were the ones virtuous people did.14 But virtuous people are justthose who do virtuous deeds.

Mike:

Hmmm . . . virtuous fans? Let’s just say the fans, for now.15

Phil:

All of them?

Mike:

A majority. And don’t start playing with numbers now. You know what I mean:a good majority.

Phil:

A good majority can gradually change. Initially they all stick to the Bulls. Then,
gradually, one by one, the fans switch to cheering for the Boars—

Mike:

Stop right there. I know everything changes, and that’s why we have a problem
in the first place. But let’s say the fans now. Suppose we’ve got our two teams,
the Continuous Team and the Boars, and those who used to cheer for the Bulls
now cheer for the Boars. Those are the fans I mean. Do you think we should listen to them and identify the original team with the Boars?

Phil:

Yes, I’d say so. But not just because of the fans. Remember, the Boars are supposed to have the same players and coach as the initial Bulls. So we have twoelements supporting the view that the old Bulls are the new Boars: composition
and the fans.

Mike:

Hold on. Suppose the fans didn’t follow the players but kept cheering for theteam called the Bulls—the Continuous Team, located in Chicago. Then wewould still have two elements: continuity and the fans. (Indeed, we would also
have the location element, but never mind that.) So why are you saying that it’s

14

Phil is referring here to Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics, Book II.
Thomas Senor offers some interesting reflections on fandom in his “Should Cubs Fans Be Committed? What
Bleacher Bums Have to Teach Us about the Nature of Faith”, in Baseball and Philosophy, edited by Eric Bronson(Chicago: Open Court, 2004).
15

12

not just because of the fans? It seems to me that if we let the fans into the picture, they would make all the difference.
Phil:

But then wouldn’t everything be up for grabs? What a team is would be a matter of what the fans think.

Mike:

Maybe. A bit like contemporary art: whether something is a piece of art would
be a matter of whether we think it is.16

Phil:

That might be right when we do aesthetics, especially these days. But here weare doing metaphysics, Michael. We are trying to nail down some good identity
criteria for entities of a certain kind—teams. And you don’t think metaphysics
is a matter of opinion, do you? You don’t think existence and identity are just a
matter of what people think?

Mike:

I surely didn’t. I was looking for objective criteria for team identity, like composition, location, continuity. But then you suggested we take the fans into account. And that’s right: the fans don’t play on the team, but they sure seem toplay a role in team identity; they somehow contribute from the outside. External
factors may matter when it comes to determining which team we are part of,especially when the intrinsic factors don’t seem to settle the issue.

Phil:

Have you told the Jerrys about that?

Mike:

I’m telling you. And I thought you’d be happy, since it was your idea.

Phil:

I’m content. But I’m not a materialist—you know that.

Mike:

Come on, I’ve seen your Montana ranch.

Phil:

I meant in the philosophical sense; I don’t believe everything boils down tophysical bodies and processes. I’m happy to say that the team is not just you
guys (and me); it’s something over and above its actual members. And I’m
happy to say that the extra bit comes from the fans, among other things. But thatmeans that when the season starts, there will be two things after all: the groupconsisting of all of us, which exists and is what it is regardless of the fans, andthe team, whose identity depends on the fans.

Mike:

I don’t like that. I’m definitely a materialist.

16

Sounds like Mike has read Nelson Goodman’s “When Is Art?”, in The Arts and Cognition, edited by D. Perkins andB. Leondar (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1977), pp. 11–19.

13

Phil:

That’s fine. You don’t want two things in the same place at the same time. You
want the team to be the group.

Mike:

No, Phil, that would take us back to the initial deadlock between the composition criterion and the continuity criterion.

Phil:

Then what?

Mike:

That’s where the fans come into the picture. None of the other criteria work because we are confusing two concepts: the group, with its composition, location,
history, and so on; and the team, with its fans. You are saying these two concepts identify two entities, the group and the team. I’d say we’ve got two concepts and the problem is to see how they interact.

Phil:

Holy Toledo Mud Hens: baseball did have an impact on you! Go ahead . . .
keep swinging!

Mike:

Wise guy. So we’ve got the group, that’s for sure: a bunch of guys, with acoach—convention doesn’t decide this. Now is this group a team? Yes, as longas they do certain things. What team it is, however—and whether it always
counts as the same team—is up to the fans. It’s not that we are the Bulls or theBoars. We count as the Bulls or as the Boars depending in part on what the fans
think.17

Phil:

Just like Clinton counts as the president so long as he plays a certain role and isproperly acknowledged by certain laws?

Mike:

That’s the idea. Clinton definitely exists—he’s part of this world, regardless ofwhat people might think of him. That he’s president, on the other hand, is amatter for some sort of social convention to decide.

Phil:

So in our case you agree with me: we have a group and a team.

Mike:

No. We have a group, period. And that group counts as a certain team only if
the fans think so. A bit like art, if you like, but not because everything is up for
grabs. Take a modern sculpture, say one of Henry Moore’s Large Forms:
there’s a piece of bronze, shaped in a certain way, and the question is notwhether there is also a sculpture, something over and above the bronze. The
question is whether that piece of bronze counts as a sculpture—whether it has

17

Has Mike supplemented his reading of Goodman with that John Searle’s The Construction of Social Reality (NewYork, Free Press, 1995)? Unlikely, since the book came out at the time of this phone call. But the phrase “counts as” isreally Searle’s.

14

features that qualify it as an artwork. Maybe that’s up for grabs, for different
people may feel differently. But that is not a metaphysical question. It’s sociology, you know. The only metaphysical question is whether the bronze is there,
and that has a straight answer.18
Phil:

I think I see. So tell me, Michael: how does this help you out?

Mike:

Well, I guess I was after the wrong answer, because I was asking the wrong
question.

Phil:

You were asking whether the team we’re putting together is the same old Bulls
you used to play with.

Mike:

Right. It turns out that I’m interested in two things: whether it’ll be the samegroup, and whether that group will count as the same team. But it matters lesswhether the group is really the same, since different groups can count as thesame team.

Phil:

So have we been talking about group identity all this time? Are we not back at
square one?

Mike:

I’m not sure. Perhaps composition, continuity, and all that are criteria that thefans can use to decide where their allegiance lies. But perhaps group identity isa more subtle and fickle business than we had in mind. Perhaps there are nonecessary and sufficient criteria informing their decision—the criteria may noteven be consistent.

Phil:

Okay, so where does this leave us?

Mike:

I guess it depends on the fans. I’ll come back only if they’re happy. I’m sure it’sgonna be a good group, whether or not it’s strictly the same old group. I wanna
be sure the fans think it makes a good team—their team.

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Mike must have read at least some of the papers that are now collected in Michael Rea’s reader, Material Constitution (Lanham, MD, Rowman & Littlefield, 1997).

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