COVER STORY • Exploring Future Relations in East Asia • 7

JInterview with Yixuan Zhang & Shu Kittaka, Presidents of Jing Forum 2018

ing Forum — a Venture for
Youth Exchanges Between
China & JapanBy Japan SPOTLIGHT

Have you heard of Jing Forum, a venue for academic discussion between students at the University ofTokyo and students at Peking University? Friendships made at a young age can be invaluable and canoften last a lifetime. If such friendships involve people of different nationalities, they could help thosenations achieve better relations in the long run. Is this a sentimental or idealistic view? Japan SPOTLIGHT
interviewed a Chinese president and a Japanese president of Jing Forum in October 2018 in Tokyo. We
found them both to be forward-looking and optimistic about the future, as most young people are.
(Interviewed on Oct. 4, 2018)

Jing Forum Presidents
JS: Please introduce yourself

and tell us how you joined thisforum.

Japan as a neighbor, because Japan is
one of the first countries I grew up toknow; I came from Shandong Province,
which is just across the sea from Japan. I
have seen a lot of activities sponsored by
Japanese corporations so I basically grew
up influenced by Japanese culture. So,
when I got to Peking University and had
the chance to join Jing Forum, I saw it asa good opportunity to deepen myunderstanding of Japan. So I stayed in theforum for three years and found it a great
experience.

Kittaka: My name is Shu Kittaka, and I ama senior at the University of Tokyo,
majoring in International Relations. I’mgoing to work for my country as abureaucrat from next spring and I joined
Jing Forum because a friend of mine wasparticipating in it two years ago andrecommended it to me. I also found that
this forum gives us the chance to discuss
What Is Jing Forum?
interesting topics with top students from
JS: Could you give a brief
China and through that process I wanted
background to Jing Forum?
to get a deep understanding of what
Also, it seems there is a very
Peking University students think about
detailed procedure for
their society and politics and so on. I
publishing reports orparticipated last year as a delegate and
Ms. Zhang Yixuan and Mr. Shu Kittaka
conclusions, so could you
enjoyed the discussion, so decided to
explain about this procedure?
become the president and manage the forum this year.
Zhang: My name is Zhang Yixuan and I am a senior student from
Peking University. I major in Spanish Language and Literature in the
School of Foreign Languages, and after graduating I intend to continue
studying law. I have been in Jing Forum for three years, as I joined asa freshman in 2016, and was a delegate to the section on social
justice. Later on I became vice president in charge of academic
preparation, and that year we had three section topics: gender, elitismand globalism. This year, I am in charge of Jing Forum and myreasons for participating are multifaceted. I really want to understandhttps://www.jef.or.jp/journal/

Kittaka: Basically the forum was founded in 2005 and at that time
there was strong mistrust between China and Japan over Prime
Minister Junichiro Koizumi’s visit to Yasukuni Shrine. So, some of themembers of the University of Tokyo thought they could do something
to ameliorate relations, and asked students at Peking University if theywould like to come together in a forum to discuss such issues. That isthe basic foundation of the forum. We have three sections for eachyear. This year we have cultural diversity, regulations in cyberspace,and competition and justice. Each section has five people from theJapan SPOTLIGHT • January / February 201931

COVER STORY 7

University of Tokyo and five people from Peking University, and thenwe also each have four members of committees, making 19 students
from each university. We have discussions around the table, but alsointerview professors or people in companies to deepen our
understanding of relations between our countries or social problems ineach country.
Zhang: Maybe I can add something about the procedure. In early April
we have a pre-session, which is for topic selection. A University ofTokyo student will fly to China and join us for topic selection, and so
we will recruit members at our respective campuses and then collectsome basic proposals for our general topics. In that session in April,
we get together to select the three final topics for the year. Afterwards,
with the help of professors and also other students, we prepare otherinteresting topics from our respective universities. Then in September,
we have the Beijing session, which lasts for a week, then the Tokyosession in October. After these sessions, we summarize our
discussion results and publish the report books, one in Chinese andone in Japanese. Basically, we then start to recruit more members andstart to prepare for next year’s discussions, so we are busy all year
round.
JS: So you publish your report on a particular website

for this forum?

Kittaka: Yes, we post them on the website, and also publish an actual
booklet for supporters.
Zhang: On the Chinese side we have various ways of publishing our
results tailored to different sections of the public.
JS: How about language? One in Japanese and theother in Chinese?

Zhang: Japanese and Chinese. We use English in our discussions, andsometimes when we make a report book to target our Japaneseaudience, we use English.
JS: I am curious about the participating students. Are

they mostly majoring in international relations orpolitics, or economics?

Kittaka: Some are majoring in international relations, but there are also
law faculty students, and even science and computer science students.
Zhang: This year we have cyberspace regulations, so that is why wehave computer science students. A wide range of students participate
in the forum.
32 Japan SPOTLIGHT • January / February 2019

JS: I am also curious about the process of topic

selection. You explained about the procedure, but is
it a spontaneous discussion, not based upon any
public information? Do you just get together and talkabout recent news or topics in the media?

Zhang: Basically, for topic selection, the various section leaders havedifferent disciplines and so their academic background pretty muchcontributes to their topic section. A student majoring in international
relations was a member of the globalism section last year, and afterthat discussion she wanted to try to explain why both our societies are
becoming more diverse, and so she raised the topic of cultural
diversity as the main topic. We finally decided on that topic, and that isjust one example of how it works. One student with a particular
academic background comes up with a proposal, does some academic
preparation work, and tries to identify a topic that is pertinent tocurrent debate. Then, that person will be in charge of introducing that
topic and explaining its significance. Although it is a spontaneous
discussion, sometimes it is a little bit more like a debate because weare trying to clarify our positions and persuade other people regarding
them.
Kittaka: Most of the board members of the committees are from theJing Forum of the previous year, and then we recruit section leaders
around January. When we interview them, they bring up some ideasthat they want to discuss. When we go to Peking University in March,
section leaders from both universities decide on what they will talkabout. So the topics are all up to them in a sense.
Zhang: The section leaders from each country will probably havedifferent ideas about what they are going to discuss, so that is why weneed to gather in April, to try and combine these ideas into a unified
topic.
JS: For example, this year’s topics are very

interesting: cultural diversity, cyberspace,competition and justice. I think these are relevant to
the global economy, not necessarily to bilateralrelations between Japan and China. So are you
focusing on issues from a global context or abilateral one?

Zhang: I think we need to take both into consideration. We thinkglobally sometimes because we discuss these issues in English. Also,
sometimes I find that our universities have a lot of similarities, so weusually select topics that are pertinent to worldwide debate. This is aninteresting point because it shows that our individual identity is also
diversified; we do not just focus on one country or international

COVER STORY 7

relations between two countries. As academia often involves
international exchanges, our backgrounds are becoming more diverse.

JS: I am very interested in the third issue: competition

Kittaka: For this year, the topics are related to the global economy andglobalization, but looking back five or six years ago we discussed theeducation systems in both countries. There were also times when we
discussed leadership, labor or social gaps, which means that the
topics are not necessarily related to economy.

Zhang: Competition and social justice is interesting because of its
continuity. Through discussions over 13 years in Jing Forum we havefound a lot of issues related to social justice. I myself joined the social
justice section in 2016. Competition can somehow contribute to more
efficient work, but can also be harmful to society because it can fuelinequality, and especially on equality of outcomes and opportunities
there is a lot of philosophical debate. We want to cover education andbusiness because these are topics related to everybody, and everybody
can have something to say. We illustrate the differences between
Japan and China in high school education, and can figure out different
levels of high schools and why they are different, whether theyemphasize comprehensive education or education that merely focuseson getting higher grades. We are comparing these different factors andhow they affect competition and whether they affect equality. We havediscussed, in the context of China and Japan, whether some
corporations are creating a monopoly, and whether that can affect bothindividuals and society in general. After graduation, students in bothcountries want to go to big firms to work, and in the recruitment
process they want to find out if there are any factors relating to genderor other issues.

Zhang: Although those topics are related to worldwide issues, when
we hold debates we tend to focus on cases that are more familiar to
Chinese and Japanese audiences. For example with cyberspace
regulation, this year we focused on regulations in each country andtheir differences, so for any given topic we will look at the situation inboth countries.
JS: I am curious about both universities’ faculty’s

involvement in Jing Forum. Could you tell me if thefaculty are also involved in your forum and if so, how
are they involved?

Kittaka: For Jing Forum in 2018, Professor Akio Takahara andProfessor Tomoko Ako supported us, and Prof. Takahara actually cameto our opening ceremony in Tokyo and made comments about thethree sections. He sometimes introduces companies or people who
can support Jing Forum, or helps us find conference rooms or otherspaces for discussion. They only support us, but do not actually takepart in the discussions.
Zhang: We also receive similar support, usually from the office ofInternational Relations of Peking University. Teachers from thatdepartment help us with logistics, to recruit members, and to provide
academic guidance. Some professors come to our Opening Ceremonyand enlighten us regarding issues in Japan or China.

Discussions in Jing Forum 2018
JS: How is this year’s Jing Forum going so far?
Kittaka: On the topic of cultural diversity, they discuss more abstract
ideas — the questions are about cultural identity or whether all
cultures are equal. What they are doing is to analyze this globalized
world and seek a desirable model in which a majority culture cancompromise with a minority culture. They are also looking at more
specific cases such as the Okinawa problem in Japan or the Xinjiang
issue — the separatist conflict in the far northwest province of China— or gender issues.

and justice. What was generally discussed?

JS: This is a very important issue, as there is now atrend toward populism in various parts of the world,
including in the United States and Europe. What isbehind this? Is it due to expanding income inequality
between the rich and poor? This is often interpreted
as an outcome of competition. In your discussions,do the majority of students support the idea of social
justice, or competition? Was there a consensus?

Zhang: Personally I don’t think that social justice and competition are
in conflict. As for the trend of populism, actually last year we covered
two topics related to that: globalism and elitism. The idea is that
globalization only contributes to the welfare of the elite class and thatthe public in some societies are suffering. My personal idea is that,when it comes to abstract terms like social justice, of course
everybody will support it, but when it comes to specific cases we cansee a lot of factors involved and there might be differences between
Chinese and Japanese standards. We need to remember that ourdelegates from each country do not represent our respective societies
in general as we have similar educational backgrounds. We readsimilar books and accept similar ideas that are quite Westernized, so
we have to keep this in mind. We try to use statistics from bothcountries to compare our ideas.

Japan SPOTLIGHT • January / February 201933

COVER STORY 7

JS: This is a very important point. The students

represent individuals rather than the country.

Zhang: When it comes to your personal identity, it is hard to separatethat from the identity of the community.
Kittaka: Yes, and many of the delegates in the Tokyo forum come fromthe Kanto area rather than regional areas and so their opinions are
somewhat city-oriented and do not represent the rural areas. We try tokeep in mind that we’re not representing our country. The delegates in
Peking University may be more diverse and represent different
regions.
Zhang: On the composition of delegates in Peking and Tokyo, in lastyear’s discussion they actually compared the individual background ofeach delegate, and it showed that most Tokyo delegates are from the
Kanto area and have a similar background, while the Chinese students
had more diverse backgrounds. Also, Tokyo delegates see themselves
are being the elite, while the Chinese students do not see themselvesthat way and feel it is hard to regard yourself as one of the elite in
China as it is so competitive to become one.
Kittaka: In Tokyo, students felt that they were among the elite just byhaving entered the University of Tokyo, while this was not necessarily
the case with Peking University. There they need connections topolitical power to join the elite. So when it comes to fairness, there is a
big difference in values, as University of Tokyo students’ emphasis ison individual rights or individual backgrounds when thinking about
competition. In China, there might be more emphasis on social
mobility than in Japan in terms of getting into a top university.
Zhang: We have different perspectives on these issues and different
results. When it comes to the University of Tokyo, I think most
students come from urban areas, especially in Tokyo. But the process
is fairer because there are unified tests for students of all regions. In
China, we have different tests for different regions and this gives
different outcomes. If you live in Beijing or Shanghai you have a goodchance of entering top universities, but if you come from a province
like mine, it is increasingly hard. When it comes to the results, it
seems that we don’t have that high a concentration of students from
Beijing or Shanghai. Social mobility in China is kind of diminishing
because when it comes to the process of development it is a global
trend — social mobility improves alongside development. In our
debates and thought experiments, I think delegates are not justrepresenting themselves; they are trying to summarize social impacts
that they perceived themselves.

34 Japan SPOTLIGHT • January / February 2019

Forum’s Merits
JS: It seems that exchange of opinions, informationand values between students of both countries is amajor priority for this forum. This will certainly enrich
your knowledge and experience and be very usefulafter graduation in whatever you do in your work.

Kittaka: I agree. Our main goals are to exchange information and see
the fundamental differences in our values. Sometimes we try to reacha conclusion about what an ideal society is and how to get there, but
we found that is very difficult because we have completely different
societies so actually cannot imagine such an ideal society.
JS: What does the conclusion look like after eachdebate?

Zhang: Sometimes it is hard to reach a conclusion about what an ideal
society looks like in the context of fairness, so in our report book wehave some interesting conclusions, and we just truthfully record our
discussion process and also whether people are reaching a
consensus, and the reasons why we cannot reach it. We don’t look fora one-sentence conclusion but more to identify the reasons why there
are differences, and to analyze the roots of those differences. I thinkthat reaching conclusions and making policy suggestions is not themain goal; rather, it is about mutual trust and mutual inspiration and toreally understand our respective societies.
JS: Having listened to your comments, I think this is avery useful forum for improving friendship because
you discuss many important issues as individuals.

COVER STORY 7

The forum was founded in 2005 and has been goingfor almost 15 years, so friendships must have growna great deal. Do alumni of the forum sometimes
address you or talk about their experiences?
Kittaka: Sometimes we have the chance to meet alumni, and we invite
them to the party after the final presentation. Other than that, I
sometimes hear that alumni chapters gather in places like New York,or that alumni end up working together in the same companies, forexample in the banking sector.
JS: You have made these friendships at a young age

and they last a long time.

Zhang: Yes, and not just delegates of the forum, but also university
students whom we present to, because we promote our ideas andfriendship to them. When we introduce Jing Forum to Peking
University students, we are trying to show them how wonderful
Japanese society is and to attract them to our forum, by which we canpromote friendship. We are not just providing them with images; weare trying to invite them to join us in order to find the answers to theirlong-held questions. Through this process, we can create mutual trust
and understanding, and discover that while we have many differences
there are also lots of similarities. We are also trying to understand ourown identities: my first time in Jing Forum was very enriching as I
didn’t have a clear identity as to who I was and who I represent, but
through debating these ideas I think I am able to understand myself
more deeply.
JS: Whatever you do after graduation, this experienceis very useful. Are any of your senior members in
China living in Japan or vice versa?

Kittaka: Yes, I know some alumni from Peking University now living inJapan.
Zhang: One of our past delegates was interested in the environment,
and after graduating he worked in Japan for seven years and thenreturned to China, where he gained an MBA. I interviewed him and had
a deep impression of how Jing Forum can impact on your future life. I
also know a student from Peking University who worked in Japan for
nine years after graduating. The friendship and inspiration that they got
from Jing Forum was certainly a big help to them.

Next Year’s Topics & Future Issues
JS: We mentioned topic selection, but are there any

topics selected for next year, such as the issue of

trade wars or other rising geopolitical risks?
Kittaka: Of course, many students are interested in these issues but
they are a little far removed from our daily lives so it is hard to talkabout them individually, based on our own individual values. It is going
to be based more on research or academic background provided byprofessors; we need to focus more on the actual discussion process.
Zhang: Especially when it comes to the trade war, it is more relevant toChina so perhaps Peking University students should be more familiar
with that issue; I personally feel it is more of a zero-sum game, butwhen it comes to the Jing Forum discussion, the idea is to say no to azero-sum game. We prefer the idea of a plus-sum game, and that is
why we are trying to reach that goal through cooperation andcommunication.
JS: What do you think is particularly important when

considering how to maintain good relations between
Japan and China?

Zhang: I think that economy and trade are definitely important. To use
my experience in international exchange and student forums, I thinkthat people-to-people relations are also important. For example, China
and Australia have very close trading relations, but on the level ofpolitics or people-to-people we are not so close. However, between
China and Japan, there are very strong linkages between Japanese andChinese people and these take place irrespective of the policies
between the two countries. We know that over history there has beencommunication between our two nations and even in difficult times
our cooperation never really stopped. We learn a lot from Japan, and a
lot of more abstract words that we use enter our lexicon from Japan.
These two countries have influenced each other throughout history
and so it is not just about economy or trade, but really about people
and people relations. When Chinese tourists come to Japan, even if
they can’t read everything, they feel a sense of familiarity and this is
the foundation of mutual trust.
JS: So you think people-to-people relations are an

important element of this forum. Also, I believe that“soft power” is very important for such relations.

Kittaka: Yes, when I ask Peking University students why they areinterested in Japan, they often say that it was because they saw
Japanese movies or animation, and so I think that soft power is indeed
important as a way of getting people to develop an interest in Japan.
This is very different from the formality of newspapers or thegovernment. I am sure that trade and economic relations are very
important between our two countries, as the Japanese economy isJapan SPOTLIGHT • January / February 201935

COVER STORY 7

certain to go down over the next 50 years. Meanwhile, I am a little
pessimistic about political relations because over the past 100 years
we have fought against each other, and it is kind of inevitable for theJapanese and Chinese governments to try and blame each other. That
is why soft power can play an important part in forming people-topeople relationships.
JS: Will your forum discuss these cultural matters in

the future?

Zhang: Yes. One reason why Chinese students join Jing Forum is thatthey grew up watching Japanese cartoons and are attracted toJapanese. On the other hand, China has not traditionally had such astrong cultural industry and its soft power is weaker, so it is somewhat
curious as to what exactly attracts Japanese students to join Jing
Forum.
Kittaka: The reason why I joined Jing Forum is because I was studying
China and Chinese language too, and when I was entering the
University of Tokyo people told me that this is the era of China and that
China would dominate economically, so I thought it would be good tounderstand China better. I think it is easier for us to have a discussion
with students from China using English, because it is a second
language for both of us, so it is easier than discussing with English
natives.
Zhang: When it comes to soft power, it has a foundation in hard
power. Especially with China’s burgeoning economy in the last few
decades, Japanese students are very interested in understanding
China, so it is a combination of hard power and soft power that forms
the attraction of understanding each other.
JS: My last question is about language. Someone told

me that in Japanese schools we pick up Chinese as asecond or third language. Could there be a mutualline where China expands Japanese education andJapan expands Chinese education? This could help
promote good relations, as language is an important
form of soft power. In the future, could Jing Forum beheld in either Japanese or Chinese exclusively?

Zhang: A lot of the delegates in the University of Tokyo are learning
Chinese, and can speak it as their third language. Similarly at Peking
University, delegates are learning Japanese and are doing thisvoluntarily rather than as a compulsory course. Personally, I feel that
language barriers are diminishing around the world — studying aforeign language will become easier, and sometimes less important —because we have a lot of resources to help us communicate. In that
36 Japan SPOTLIGHT • January / February 2019sense, attraction to another culture to study its language
spontaneously will have a big impact. My personal wish is that China
and Japan can be more attracted to each other to bring about mutual
prosperity and understanding of each other’s cultures.
Kittaka: When we debate, we realize how our cultures are really similar
to each other, and while we usually use English, we sometimes find it
difficult to define terms such as culture or Westernization. In that case
we sometimes write down the kanji, and then we can express what wemeant in English. It takes a lot of effort to learn each other’s language,
and I think that using English makes the discussion kind of neutral
rather than Chinese or Japanese dominant.
Zhang: Another thing is that in academic research English is thedominant language, and this is really hard to change. We have to use
English for the academic background to our debates. I am actuallyquite optimistic about our future, because if the world is more andmore focused on cultures of civilizations, Japan and China actually
have a lot of similarities compared to other nations. We have easieraccess to transport and communication, so when these barriers comedown we will have even more opportunities to communicate with eachother and understand each other, and when we can put aside ourdifferences and understand each other, we can enjoy a more
harmonious relationship.

Written with the cooperation of Joel Challender, who is a translator, interpreter,
researcher and writer specializing in Japanese disaster preparedness.