Interviewee: Sid Ikeda
Interviewer: Lorene Nagata
Date: December 23, 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Accession Number: 2010-023[Start part 1]
Lorene Nagata: Can you tell me what your first name is, please?
Sid Ikeda: Sid.
LKN: And where were you born, Sid?
SI: Vancouver.
LKN: Do you remember what part of Vancouver?
SI: I lived on [Trime?] Street, that’s about all I know. But it must be on the east side,
but I don’t know for sure.
LKN: Okay, and what year was that?
SI: 1934. October 11th.
LKN: And what generation Canadian are you?
SI: I would say I’m a – more third generation. I’m a second – third generation, butsince my father died in 1943, I consider myself a second generation. A third
generation excuse me. Third generation.
LKN: And where were your parents born?
SI: They’re – my mother was born in the Vanc – in the Vanc – New Westminster, B.C.,
and my father was born in Kamamoto, Japan.
LKN: Okay, and do you know much about where your grandparents were born?
SI: They were both born in Kamamoto. In fact, they’re all come from Kamamoto.
LKN: Okay, and do you know why it was that your ancestors moved to Canada?
SI: As far as I can see, my – my grandfather came because he was just an outgoing
person. He wanted to see what was on the other side of the world, and I – I thinkthat he just came out just – ‘cause he was a very young man, and I think it was thatdesire to get out of the box. Maybe there was some hardship in Kamamoto, but hedecided to come to Canada.
LKN: And when was it that your family moved to Canada?
SI: Like the – it was in 1895 that my grandfather came, and he met his wife on thesame boat and they fell in love. ‘Cause she was designed to be a wife of anotherperson, waiting for her in – I believe in New Westminster. But once they fell in love,she didn’t want to meet this gentleman, so it ended up that they sent her, her sisterto come and marry this gentleman.
LKN: Okay. Now – do you – do you know where your ancestors first lived in Canada?
SI: In New Westminster.
LKN: And can you tell me a little bit about your immediate family?
SI: My immediate family? Well, my mother was born in 1907, in New Westminster.
My father was born in Japan, Kamamoto, and came out here when he was a youngman, about 21 years old. And he was sent by his sister – that, why don’t you – your1sisters – “The economy’s not too good, there’s nothing here for you. Why don’t you
go to, to Canada, to Vancouver, and meet your brother there, and see if you can makea life there, and if you’re not happy, then come back home.” So he came from Japanback in the 19 – early 1920s. What happened is that he met my – who was mymother, they got married, and that’s it. That’s – that’s why he remained in Canada.
LKN: And how many siblings do you have?
SI: We have a total of seven in our family, and five boys and two girls.
LKN: And do you know, in Japan, what your ancestor’s line of work was?
SI: No, I don’t.
LKN: Do you know much about your ancestors in Japan? Their life in Japan?
SI: Now, it – I’m – maybe in 1990, when I went to Japan, I did go visit my aunt. She
and her family owned a, a children’s school that’s been going on for years. And when
I’ve seen her, she was already 94 years old. So that’s the only business that I would
know that was carried on by the – my ancestors.
LKN: Once your family moved to Canada, do you know what their line of work was?
SI: Well, my father – well, my grandfather was able to start a business, and he hadrooming houses and stores, regular stores. Like he had a couple of stores until –‘cause my aunt would tell me she worked selling clothing, and you know, and mymother would say, “Yes, we – we had quite a good business.” Because he was also
connected with Japan, getting people jobs – come from Japan to get jobs in that area.
So that’s about all I know.
LKN: Do you remember much about your early life? As a child?
SI: The only thing I remember is when my father had a party, at our house, and I
know that as a young boy, our – all of us in our family knew that we could stay up
late, and we’ll get a lot of goodies to eat. But I do remember – I used to be quite bad, I
guess, ‘cause my father would, you know – I can always remember my father would
spank my older brothers, but never spanked me because I was the third oldest. But I
always had a habit of breaking windows, you know, because people teased me. I
remember a guy named Bobby Ito – he’s one of the famous actors that played in theStates, but he was also a tap dancer when he was 10 years old. But going back to thestory – I broke his window, and it just so happened he teased me, and I picked up arock and threw it. He ducked, and I broke the big picture window in their house. And
that night, when my father came home from work, he gave me a spanking. [chuckles]
So that I’ll never forget. And I’ll always remember when we went to my
grandfather’s in New Westminster – we lived in Vancouver – and I noticed that myfather loved to sing, so when I sing – and then they tell me, when I sing with my eyes
closed like my father, my grandfather would give me a penny or a nickel, and I could
get an ice cream cone. [chuckles] That’s all I remember.
LKN: Do you remember much about your neighbourhood?
SI: No, not too much. I did go to a Japanese language school.
LKN: Okay. Can you remember that?
SI: Yeah, I remember, because after school – I went to Hastings Park School, grade 1,
and then that night we went to – in the afternoon, we went, 4 o’clock, to a Japanese
language school. One thing I remember is I teased this big kid – everybody teased
this big kid – so I teased him, and then he gave chase after me, and he scared theheck out of me. So I’m running, and I went to open the door and I put my head right2

through the window – picture frame, and I cut my wrist, and I still got that scar right
here, all these years. That’s during – that’s before the war! [chuckles]
LKN: Do you remember much about the Japanese community at that time?
SI: Oh, not at all. Not at all.
LKN: Were you involved in any other classes in the Japanese culture, like any of themartial arts?
SI: Oh, no. Not, not – not in Vancouver.
LKN: Okay. So how long were you in Vancouver for?
SI: Well, I was born in ’34, so 1941 – and the war on Jan – December 7th, and thefollowing year we were put into the Hastings Park. We were put into Hastings Park,you know.
LKN: Okay.
SI: But that was my first connection with a lot of, like – there was a lot of Japanesepeople.
LKN: So the community – prior to that, the community that you grew up in was not a
Japanese community?
SI: Oh, there was a Japanese community, but the only time you see people would beat the – at the Japanese language school. Okay? That’s about all, because the rest of
the time I would be at school, and then I’d do my own things, I guess. You know, with
my own friends.
LKN: Right, okay. So do you remember the evacuation?
SI: Oh, yeah. Yes, I remember why there was curfew – there was then something thatreally puzzled me, because when the – when my father got taken away, we went tomove in with my uncle, and we lived in a very crowded place. I don’t recall how
crowded it was, but I know that it had to be crowded. But we were – we wereallowed to stay a certain time and at night, my mother would say, “We got to get off
the street.” So I remember – “Why do we have to go off the street, while the otherkids can play?” But we had to go off the street. I was wondering why and I, youknow, didn’t understand what the world was about.
LKN: When was your father taken away?
SI: Well, I think somewhere just after December 7th. You know, he’s from Japan, so
he would be one of the priority persons to be taken away.
LKN: And – and where was he taken away to?
SI: To a road camp. I don’t know where, but I know that he was taken away, ‘cause I
was 7 years old – 6 years old, 7 years old. Was – well, 7 years old.
LKN: And when did you next see him?
SI: I seen him in 1942. In the summer of ’42, because – I can only go by history that
we went to Tashme, which is 115 miles interior from Vancouver, and we went there
in – I would say summer of 1942, and he was able to come and join with us.
LKN: What do you remember about the evacuation?
SI: Well, I know one thing, it was – I didn’t understand what was going on. All I know
is that we were asked to take a train, take a train and go. So as a family, we just got
together and we went on the train, and we went across Fraser River. I remember theriver, and how the water was flowing down, and it was terrifying for me to look atthe – the water flowing by, and thinking, “Gee, oh.” And then when the train creaks,
you know, and everything, and I’m thinking, “God, I hope it keeps us afloat.” You3know? So I was more terrified about that. And then we went to this country, like into
the forest, which was a real change from the city into a Hastings Park and then go toa camp. And it was quite exciting to go to this place. Living outdoors, like – living in ahouse with outdoor facilities, like washrooms, bathhouses, which was in acommunity bathhouse. So – and there was no electricity, you know, so it was a realchange. And then you make so many new friends, and there were so many people.
LKN: Yeah. So you went to Hastings Park first?
SI: First to Hastings Park, and then to Tashme.
LKN: So what do you remember about Hastings Park?
SI: Well, Hastings Park was – then again, it was a novelty, again. You know, you’reliving with a lot of people, and what I was impressed with was we lined up to havefood every morning, every day. You know, so it was kind of interesting that you get
fed, you know, with a tray – you go and pick up your food, and eat, and then you go
play. And I remember one thing – one day, ‘cause the Hastings Park had a racing
track – you know, a race track. I don’t know what. All I heard was a lot of noise andkids would climb up the tree, so I climbed to take a look, and all I see was a, youknow, a guy riding on a horse, with a colour on him, and I didn’t know that wasraces. And when I came – later on in life, I realized that was a race – a racehorse, anda jockey. It was, you know – but that was kind of, you know, [shrugs] something
new. But those things about – little things I remember about Hastings Park. There
was a big, like – like a festival. Like the – they had all kind of Ferris wheels andthings, you know? We were able to go one – once, I remember that. You know, that
was a novelty again. Normally, we would never go. So those things – that’s about all.
Making friends, I guess, and not knowing too much.
LKN: Where were you – where, where did you sleep while you were in Hastings?
SI: I don’t know where I slept, but when I read back now, I realize that we wereyoung enough to be sleeping in the horse stables. That’s where we were, because I
was told that’s where we stayed.
LKN: How long – do you remember how long you were in Hastings?
SI: I would say a good six months.
LKN: Okay Did your mother ever tell you – talk about Hastings after you left?
SI: No, I don’t think she ever did.
LKN: Your whole family was together except for your father?
SI: Except for my father, yeah.
LKN: Okay.
SI: My whole family was still – there was just at that time six, because my sister – thesixth baby, my sister – was born while we were in Hastings Park. She, she went to –when she – my mother had to give birth, they took her to the Vancouver General
Hospital, and then she came back with a baby to Hastings Park. It was in 1942 she
was born.
LKN: Okay, and then from there, you went to Tashme.
SI: Tashme, yeah.
LKN: Do you remember the, the move to Tashme?
SI: Well, the train trip – I was mentioning about the train trip, and seeing the large
river that, you know – and then going to the forest, it was kind of – actually, kind of
exciting, you know, because I’d never seen the forest so closely, and travelling on a4

train – it was just – kind of exciting, in a sense. Like, you know, as a kid, you look out
and say, “Oh yeah. Very nice. Where we going? I don’t know.”
LKN: So how old were you when you went to Tashme?
SI: Would be seven, still seven. It’d be 1942, and I’m, I’m born in 1940 – 1934. So ’42,
October, I’m still seven. Yeah.
LKN: Do you remember arriving at the camp?
SI: I remember going to where we lived, in a box house – like, you know, a mesh box
house. I remember that, ‘cause you couldn’t help but notice where the rows ofhouses were, and we got put into 2nd Avenue. This particular place – because they –for a family of seven, they needed to have one house for you. So they were stillbuilding houses, so we – when they finished the house in the back of it, to 9th Avenue– because there was only 10 rows, 10 – 10th Avenue. When you got to 9th Avenue,
they had one of the house [boats ?] so we moved from 2 nd Avenue to 9th Avenue.
LKN: Can you tell me a little bit more about what – what you remember about thecamp?
SI: Well, one thing that were – were – people of my age, like – for people of my age, it
was a real novelty. You know, like it was a real exciting, you know, to – to mix withso many Japanese kids, you know? Make friends, and we had a lot of exciting things
to do, because we’d go in the forest and we could hunt, we could make rafts, we
could make a lot of good things. But we always had a – we all had chores to do
before we did that, because during that time, we started to say that, you know, theywould give you so much – a plot for growing vegetables, and then we would get jobs
to like, water the gardens and things like that. There was always things to do, ‘cause
they had to – wood – chop wood to – for your winter. It’s a [payu ?]. It stunk, but you
got to chop it all down. So as a young boy, you going to – how to use an axe. You
know, so you get – you’re kids so you learn from other kids how to make good ofthings. Like a making slingshot, bow and arrow, whistles out of trees – you know, oreven taking leaves and blowing whistles. [holds hands together] You know, like –there’s so many things you learn from one another. But one thing is it’s exciting,because you’re able to be like an Indian boy and go into the forest, look for deers,
hunt for deers – you know, kind of wild life. It was kind of exciting for young people,
I guess. And no one ever stayed in the house because the house was lit with a lamp, aColeman lamp. It was so dark. So you know, every day you’re – when you get up in
the morning, you eat your breakfast and away you go. So when school – you know,
you go to school, but after school, you – you’d meet with your friends and you’d play.
LKN: What do you remember about the school?
SI: I don’t remember the school so much as I remember going to church. Because I
was telling you that there’s something there in that house, that – really tragic that
happened with my father dying, in 1943, November the 15th. He went to work one
morning and came back in a wooden box. And I remember coming home fromschool where – asked by uncle to go to his house, and a couple of hours later – itmust be – we went to the house, where my father was in a box. A rough pine box,
like you know – because there’s no finished lumber there. And that – that was sad, tosee my father dead. I’d never seen a dead person. Like, I’d seen someone dead, butnever crossed my mind, but when I saw my father there – I just couldn’t understandhim just laying there. So my brother – my younger brother and I tried to wake him
5up, but we couldn’t, you know? Then I remember, went to the – that night, I could
hear them talking – his friends were talking – because the house was so small. This
A-frame house, and the two beds are in one section of the living room. In the centre,
there was the stove, and a dining room table. And they talked right there, so you
can’t help but hear, because it’s such a small house, you know. And then I remember
the next day that they had a funeral at night and then they took him out to the field,
where they cremated him, and I remember seeing him being burned. And also, thenext morning I went with my brothers and my uncles in to pick my father’s bones.
LKN: To –SI: To pick up my father’s bones, you know. So they put it in a box, and that stayedwith us for years, with my mother. And one thing too, they made a – you know, since
we’re Buddhists, they made a shrine out of rough lumber, and shellacked it. And mybrother – to this day, after – since 1943, he has it in his house to this – to this day.
LKN: Do you remember – what do you remember about the church, in the camp?
SI: Well, the – I didn’t know too much about the church. I used to just go [shrugs]
because everything was in Japanese in a Buddhist church. But when my father died,and my mother would say, “I have to go to church every Sunday.” And I went with afriend, because there was also at the – this particular barn where they had – becausethat was the meeting place – both have the United Church and the Buddhist Church.
So my friend and I – he would go to the United Church, and I would go to Buddhist
Church. And the only thing I remember one time was that he came out with anorange. I got nothing. So I said, “Oh, I think next Sunday, I’m going to come to yourchurch!” [chuckles] But of course, I never did, you know, ‘cause – you know.
LKN: Do you remember other things about the camp? Like where you – where you
washed, where you ate? What you ate?
SI: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, not so much of what I ate, but we did take a – mymother – everything had to be done outside – washed, you know, because the water
was outside. So I, I don’t know how my mother did the wash for seven kids, and you
know, with my father died, of course, there were seven kids, and was just – how sheever did – washing our clothes, and looking after us. But we had a [community] baththat we could go any time. And there was always – there was – since there were
3,000 people in there, they had three big bath houses, in the – logically placed. And
they have – in each one, they had a – it’s an A-frame, and they had a wall to separate
the men and women. They used a common centre tub, you know, for a hot tub. And
they kept that thing nice and hot, so you had to wash outside, and then you rinse
yourself inside. And they keep about six inches at the bottom of the tub, you know,of the hot water. And as young kids, we used to dive underneath and look, and all we
see is women’s feet. And I says – you know, so I said, “What a waste of time! You
know, who wants to dive under here and get a headache looking at women’s feet?”
Because the water was so hot, you know. So I gave that up – we gave that up rightaway. But that’s how they’d bath, and the oil would come to the top and I always
remember, the men would always scoop the oil off the top, to keep the water fresh,and put fresh water in. So that was – I thought that was efficiently run.
LKN: So all the, the things like the school and the bath house and stuff – who wasrunning – who was in charge of running those –6SI: They had the, the – the community would run it, and they would assign people.
SO there’s – they had it all well-organized. The school was also – was well-organized,‘cause they had to have schooling. So they had, you know – grade 12 students would
be teaching kinder – like grade 1. So they used what resources they had, and they
had to – probably some people in the educational field would educate – educate theteachers. So they had classes.
LKN: Do you – do you remember what the general feel within the camp was?
SI: Well, for myself or for young people, we thought it was a great life for us. It was,you know – but for our parents, it would be very difficult, because not knowing –especially for my mother, for example. When my father died, leaving her pregnant
with her seventh baby – that must have been a heck of a situation to be in there. A
stressful situation. And she always said that, thanks to Buddha, her Buddhist
teaching – her religion – it helped her overcome her difficult times.
LKN: What did you do for entertainment?
SI: Oh, the people – we’d make our own entertainment, you know, because – but thepeople that – the community would have movies, concerts. There was also martial
arts and craft activities for other people. For example, martial arts – you couldn’t go
in until you were 8 years old or older, you know, because there’d be too many kids.
So I never got in ‘til I was into my – 1943 – or 8 years old. Be ’43, ’44. In fact, I think I
was 9 years old, because I got in – I got in, what? 1944, ’45, just before I left, when
the war was over. But you make your own entertainment, and what would happen
with kids is that if you see a samurai show, you know, the next morning, we will allcome out in the morning and the first thing we’d do was make samurai swords andwe’d start fighting, you know? We went to see Bobby Ito do tap dancing, and wethought, “Ooh, god, is he ever good! 10 years old, tap dancing.” Next morning, we’reout there cleaning the yard, and we’re all tap dancing. You know, you know? But
there were also, you know, you learn to – and then you’d do things like – so if you
wanted to make a raft, you know, ‘cause there’s a river, so we’d go chop a tree andthere’s lots of trees, so we saw the trees down. In fact, when we were making a raft,my friend Seb’s axe chopped my finger, because after we chopped the tree down, he
had the axe, and I was cleaning the chip, and he went to slam the axe down and hechopped my finger. So that’s why, you know, I remember him forever, and I always
said, “Remember you? When you did this to me?” [chuckles] Only 8 years old, 9
years old.
LKN: Did you stay in contact with any friends outside of the camp?
SI: Yeah, yeah. I did, yeah. After we got here. But then – no, no one there, because wewent from there to another camp.
LKN: So –SI: 1945, when the war was over, the Canadian government says, “Okay, if you want
to go back to Japan, you’re most welcome. We’ll send you back to Japan. If you want
to stay in Canada, you cannot go to the west coast. So you’ve got to go east, over theRockies.” So we decided to stay. And we gave our house up, ‘cause we’re close to
Vancouver, 150 miles from Vancouver. So we moved to another relocation camp,more interior of B.C. So we went to a place called New Denver, which was 200 miles
away from the west coast. So we went there, and we got a house of our own, and thepeople that moved to New Denver or whatever, from the other camps that are going7to Japan, came to live in the house that we had, then they went back to Japan. So
Tashme was the [indistinct] for people going back to Japan.
LKN: So can you tell me some of the best memories of being at Tashme?
SI: The best memories – well, there’s nothing to [death?] than listing the best side.
Best side that – made good friends, and – it was a happy time, for me, you know? It
was a good time, because there was no responsibility, for one thing. You know,
you’re only 8, 9 years old. And so – good memories that – being – making rafts, being
like an Indian boy. Joining a lot of activities, you know, making – like I said. I don’tknow if I ever – joining martial arts. I always wanted to be a judo, because of – anddo a lot of mountain climbing, hunting. There was just showing us, there was a scene
today I saw about skates. They were showing – in B.C., in of – in Tashme, one guy
had a pair of skates, you know, a young kid. And we’d all get to try to skate, nomatter how big or small. Those skates were double my feet, but I start skid on myankles, just so I could say I skated! [chuckles] You know? Oh, and so many things you
do – now – skiing. You know we only get one ski, so we only get one try at downhill
skis. A lot of good memories, and there’s some bad memories, because I was out
there killing snakes one time – and I regret to this day – we used to go out in themountains to see if we could look for snakes. And then we’re find them and that was
one thing I regret doing, is going to a nest where the snakes were. Snakes, as you
know, in the mountains, we were doing – and young kids like us, you know, we said,“Let’s go get snakes.” So we’d go and do things like that. When I think about thosekind of things, I hate myself. Good memories and bad memories. My – losing myfather, of course, was sad.
LKN: What did your mother do in the camp?
SI: Oh, she looked after the family. That was all she could – busy. Busy cooking,washing – a lot of work, that’s motherhood. Everything was outdoors.
LKN: So did she have an income?
SI: I don’t know how they – the government gave her a income, they looked after thepeople. They had no income, that much – I don’t know how they did the monetary –how they – with the – buy the groceries. I remember going to a grocery hut. One sad– one sad thing was the boy got lost – fell in the river. The first boy to die there, fellin the river, and I think he was the first – but then he drowned, and we all went tolook for him, and they found him. And that one of the saddest parts, losing a – friendof mine’s lost their brother or family. That was very sad. Even at our age, it was – tohear of someone dying bothered – or at least it bothered me.
LKN: Were there stores on the camp?
SI: Yeah, there was one meat store, I remember, meat store. In fact, that’s where theriver falls very fast during the winter thaw – the spring thaw, I mean. And I think theboy fell in around there. And – but there was a meat store there, and I don’t know
where the grocery store was.
LKN: Now, do you remember about leaving the camp?
SI: Oh, yes.
LKN: What do you remember?
SI: Well, leaving the camp – well, now again, now we’re going to be moving, so
exciting again. Not knowing where you’re going to go. But just – but it was sad to say
goodbye to your friends. I guess leaving was – it was curiosity. You don’t know
8what’s going on, at your age. I – just the idea of travelling was a change, ‘cause wewere there for three years, from ’42 to ’43 – almost three years. Then to get on a
train again – get on a bus, get on a train, and we go to another internment camp. So
another, you know, new place. Make new friends. So it was kind of exciting, notknowing. So there were some good memories there, too.
LKN: How long were you in the new camp, New Denver?
SI: New camp? Well actually, we went to Rosemary, because the house in New
Denver was four miles away, on the same Slocan River, and it was just a matter offour miles to travel over to New Denver. I recall going there to see a movie in New
Denver, but you got to walk through the highway, dirt – dirt highway, and right up
four miles, you know. Going there wasn’t bad, but coming home that was night was
the most scariest trip I had, because it was already dark and I think the movie was akind of a scary movie. So during the – so when you’re walking along the highway,
you hear so many noises in the forest, and my oldest brother, Art, was taking us –there was only, what, five of us – four of us, and we’re walking. And that was thelongest, scariest walk I ever had. You know, I was so happy to get home.
LKN: So how long have you – were you in New Denver?
SI: We were there ‘til 1947. ’45 to ’47.
LKN: And then where did you –SI: We came to Toronto.
LKN: While you were in New V – New Denver, what were your accommodations
like?
SI: It was nice. It was a – New Denver was in a resort area, and we lived on a placecalled Marine Drive. Marine Drive. And that Marine Drive came down and went rightaround the edge of the river – the lake, and we could – we lived right near the lake.
So it was a nice place to be. Nice place to live, actually, but then again, it’s outdoor
facilities again. So the same thing, you know, going to school. It’s good to keep goingto school. Now I’m a bit older, so I kind of enjoyed going to school, so I meet new
friends, new girlfriends, you know, seeing some girls. Kind of start taking a liking tosome girls, even at that age. Especially the doctor’s daughter. [chuckles] She was the
only one that dressed so nice. [chuckles]
LKN: Anything else you remember about New Denver?
SI: Oh, yeah. You know, we grew vegetables patches, like everybody else. I
remember two good things. One was going to Kaslo, to pick – pick cherries. Now bythen it was 1946 – ‘47, so you can see I’m 12 years old, 11 years old. Far as – so –[End of part 1][Start part 2]
SI: The – I remember this – that if you take good vegetables, and give it to the
conductor, he would take you from New Denver to Kaslo. And then we would go see
my aunt, and then we would go to pick blueberry – blue – pick cherries. And I
remember – and I’d never picked cherries before – here I am, up there in the trees,and I’m eating more cherries than I’m picking. Next thing you know, I got sick.
[chuckles] But my mother – my brother was one of the best cherry pickers. So I
remember getting sick, you know, but what I couldn’t get over was – Kaslo, they had
9the most beautiful beach, sandy beach. And I couldn’t believe how beautiful thewhole area looked, you know, with the mountains a bit behind, you know, looking
across the lake – just the most beautiful setting.
But also in, in – in New Denver, I used to help – I used to work for – my father
worked at a hardware department, and he would ask me to work for him on Sunday
mornings. ‘Cause you know, it was illegal to fish, so he had all the fishing equipment.
So we would go across the lake – it’s a mile across the lake, Slocan Lake, and thenwhenever the game warden come, we can always hide everything. Well one day, he –we went across and he, he says, “Oh, by the way – before we go across, I want to put
this – it’s called a lure.” You know, now I don’t know anything about lures, and thespinners, you know, and he pushed along – and I’m looking at him and in my own
mind, I’m saying, “God, what a – what a guy, putting a thing like that on there! And
what stupid fish would bite that thing! You know, what stupid fish.” You know, in mymind. “There’s no way that a fish will bite that thing.” So halfway through rowing
across the lake, I get tired, and he says – he says, “Kiyoshi, Kiyoshi!” He says, “Take iteasy. Hold the line.” So I hold the line, and he’s rowing, and I said, “[Oi-san, oi-san ?] I
think there’s something on the line!” He says, “Oh, let me see. Oh, there’s a fish!” So
he brings it in, and I’m saying, “I don’t believe this. I don’t believe this.” And there
was this – biggest fish I seen on the end of the line.
And a lot of times, we went across with his father, and it was to pick up matsutake,you know, the famous matsutake that costs so much that grows under pine trees.
And all he said to me was, “Now my father likes to get some mushrooms, you know.”
And they’re matsutake but he calls them mushrooms. “And it grows under a pinetree, so if you see any pine tree, look under. If you find one, let me know.” Well, thefirst pine tree I find, in this kind of hilly mountain, you know, because there’s kind ofcliffs, high cliffs, you know – so I walked up there. The first pine tree I see, I lift up,
and there’s this beautiful, like – you know, like colourful mushroom. So I’m saying, “Ifound one.” You know, yelling down there, so this old man comes, and I’m going topick it out, and he grabbed me and put me to the side, and then he – and I thought –and then he goes and picks this out, and I’m saying, “What – what a guy! Shoving me
away over a –” To me, a mushroom, you know, ‘cause I didn’t think of the value. And
I thought, “What an awful guy he is. Imagine pushing me away like that.”
LKN: Yeah.
SI: [chuckles] But later on, of course, I realized what he knew.
LKN: Anything else you remember about that time?
SI: Oh, New Denver was – New Denver was just a fascinating place.
LKN: Why’s that?
SI: Well, it was just a – you know, a place – you’re a bit older, there’s so many things
that you can do. Fish – like, you’re not supposed to fish but I remember making
spinners and everything out of canned – like, they had canned milk, and what theyshow you how to do is – so I just got the snippers, cut [hands rolling in circles] andmake spinners, like a [rolls hands together and brings across] – you, you make these
spinners that would turn, to sparkle to get the trout to bite, and at the end, since you
don’t have any hooks, you – you put a gut and then you got a hook – I should say you
got a hook, but not on the spinner. When you got – when you put a worm on the end,
and when you go to throw, the fish will bite the sparkler, but they end up biting the10worm, and that’s how you catch the trout. And I made one. And I went early in themorning, and the first cast I made out, about 25 feet out by the wharf – because
where we were, you walked 10 feet, the, the – the water’s edge just goes straight
down, just like a mountain – like, straight down. So you’ve got to be careful when
you swim there, because if you don’t know how to swim, you’ll drown. You know, so
I cast it out there, and here comes this big fish, biting my spool, and I mean big. I wasshocked. So I rushed to my boy friend’s place, knocked on the door, got him out ofbed. He gave me a hook, I got – dug worm, ran back there, cast for the next hour.
Nothing. [chuckles] So I was so hurt! [chuckles]
But you know, I [used ?] that fish, and we used to go to this creek called Carpenter
Creek, and my brother, he bought a stolen fish – like, gear, like fishing gear, because
there was people living on the other side of the river that was campers. They comeon holidays, and I guess some Japanese kids must have stolen it, and sold it to mybrother. So he didn’t steal it but he got caught with it anyways, but we were spoolingacross and every time we’d go across this river, and the [Pass Point?] River would
take all your spools and take it out, and the fish would bite. So jeez, if I don’t catch afish on my line – and my brother, since he has a better equipment, cast the big fish.
So what happens is that, gee, the game warden comes and calls us in, and he gives
my brother, you know – my brother had to be taken in, ‘cause that’s – and for me,
they took my fishing – and I looked at it and said – and they took my, mymasterpiece away! So I was so disappointed, you know, because that was mymasterpiece. So that was disappointing, but it was kind of fun.
LKN: Yeah. So then, from New Denver, where did you move?
SI: We came to Toronto.
LKN: And how did you get to Toronto?
SI: On a train. Yeah, a train.
LKN: Do you remember that train ride?
SI: Yeah, oh yeah. And so it was fascinating. I must tell you a nice story. You see, FredSunahara, his, his wife was Grace and their name was Shintanis – and the Shintanis,and the Ikedas like us, we caught the same train. So we went to this Vernon, or
somewhere where the train comes by, and Basil Shintani, and Sak Shintani, they –they’re a little bit older than me. They all had ten-gallon cowboy hats on, you know,
and – so anyways, we went on the train. And that night, we went through theRockies in the night, and those coal-fired boilers, you know, when you look outside,
you’ve got to watch out for the ash. And they got the sulfur ash, you know, the –once
it gets in your eyes, it makes you cry. You can hardly keep your eyes open, so you’ve
got to be careful. But anyways, the next morning, I’m in the – I come out of my place– you know, because we’d sleep in the boxcars, just sleeping [shakes body up anddown as if on a train] on the rough chairs. So I went out between the cab – the, thedining room unit and ours, you know, and I’m standing there, looking inside andlooking outside to the scenery, and Sak – Sak Shintani comes, you know, with his
ten-gallon hat on, all dressed up like a cowboy. And he says, “Hey, Sid. How would
you like me to buy you breakfast?” And he says, “Come on, we’ll go in there.” So we
got in – go in the dining room car. Now imagine, 5 years away in the forest, and here
you’re on the train, coming to Toronto, and he takes you into a dining room car, and11he buys me milk and muffins. Okay? Well, what a treat. And I’m saying, you know, I
says – I was so grateful to Sak. I tell this story every time, whenever I can. I says,“That was the best muffin I ever had.” You know, because it was the first time I ever
got treated, and here – and the milk! It was the most delicious breakfast I’ve everhad. I never forget – forgot him, and I tell his grandkids, or his son. You know, if I
saw his grandkids, I’d tell it to the grandkids, but that’s a good story to tell. So that’s
something I remember. But coming all the way over – it was a long train ride. Yeah,
we stopped out – somewhere around Medicine Hat, where they changed the trains,
and we went to see a movie in Winni – Medicine Hat, I think. I think it was Medicine
Hat. I thought it was Winnipeg but I think it was Medicine Hat. And then we caught
the train to come to Toronto. So we arrived here in May of 1947, in Toronto.
LKN: And what did you do when you arrived?
SI: Well, I was excited, because, you know, here we are in a city. All of a sudden, I see
all these houses and buildings, and you know, I just – of course, very excited about
not knowing where I’m going to be living and everything. And I was only sad that the– so many people stayed on the train. They never got off, because they went toHamilton, ‘cause – the Shintanis, they couldn’t, couldn’t get in to Toronto – and they
were limited to people. And we were so happy – we’re lucky, because our uncle andaunt sponsored us, ‘cause – who, you know, who would be responsible for looking
after a mother with seven children? You know, there’s no way they would allow
them to come anywhere. But my uncle stuck his neck out and said, “I will look after
them.” So we’re very grateful to my uncle, and to my aunt, because she was able to
make some money to rent a space for us, down in Cabbagetown.
So when we get to Toronto, we went to live at a nice street called St. Paul Street, andit was right down at the – if you know where Sackville and Queen? Sumach andQueen? Well, between Sumach and Sackville, there was – from Sackville down to thenext street going east is St. Paul Street, and the next street was Bright Street andthen Sumach. But St. Paul Street today is where Richmond Street comes over, andour house is the last house that’s still there. But that house we lived in was worse
than the camp, the camp – the house that we were in – because it was so small.
Although we had electricity and we had cold water, we had to take a tub bath. So
imagine eight people taking a tub bath. You know, what that’s like – it’s awful. And
the weekend, we would pay money to take a bath, at a you know, outlet – bathhouse, I should say.
LKN: What else do you remember about that time? If you want.
SI: Well, one thing is that – I remember is my mother saying that we all got to work.
We owe to our uncle. We don’t want to – you know, we got to pay back. We’ve got towork and make a living here, you know, so we’re, we’re obligated. In other words,
we don’t want to shame my uncle for getting us and we don’t make a living. So my
mother always said to work hard, you know, to get a job but work hard, and keep agood name. You know, so that was the way it was – so – oh, but my brother, he founda job, because he was about two months earlier. He came to Toronto and got a job
with a Jewish firm, working in a cleaning business, you know, the whole thing,cleaning. And my brother Kenny, he – he came with us in May, and he found a job car
washing. Whatever job you could do. I washed dishes for a nickel, quarter, whatever.
12My younger brother – we all – the four of us, we all worked part-time, except mybrother had a full-time job.
And then I found a job selling papers at a corner. And actually, it was my younger
brother found a job with this fellow, a Jewish fellow, Pinky, and then I went andapplied a job, and I got one of his best corners. That’s called Scott and Wellington,
and there, when the – in 1947, the papers were selling for three cents. The Star andTelegram. The Star, even then, was – if you sell – if you sold 100 papers, theTelegram would be only about 50 to – 40 to 50 papers, so there was about half. So
on that corner, Scott and Wellington – it was the first corner where the Yonge
streetcar would come down and go across Front Street. You know, where
Hummingbird, or O’Kee – or now, Sony Centre – they come up York Street to
Wellington. In those days, that was the first stop for the Yonge Street bus. So mostpeople rushed to get into the train cars – running to the bus, trolley bus, and they’d
go to Yonge Street – along Wellesley to Yonge and then go up Yonge Street. So I had
the best corner.
So I used to make good tips, ‘cause I was always dressed – I don’t dress well,because, you know, we’re poor, but then they’d see us hustling, you know? We
worked hard. But then we’d get to know the customers, so the people started – andthen the economy was picking up, for sure, because people would give me nickels,and I’d keep the tip. So for a three-cent paper, I’d make two cents tip. So I was
making – 40 people gave me two cents, out of the 250 papers, so – so I was making$1.80, ‘cause people gave me 80. So $1.80 in those days was good money. And then –paper went up to a nickel, I lost all my tip. So I had to go back to Pinky – being a
Jewish guy, you’d think he would give me a, a raise. No. You had to go and ask for it.
I’m not condemning him or anything, but that’s why I went to see Pinky. And Pinky’s
like, “What do you want, sonny?” He always talked from side of his mouth with thecigar. I says, “Hey, Pinky, you know – you know, you know, I’m not making muchmoney now, you know.” I says, “Ever since the paper went up to a nickel, you know, I
need a raise, because I’m selling – you know, you’ve got more money, we lose ourtip. I lose my tip, and then I sold 50 more papers than you had, when I started.” So hesays, “I hear you, sonny. Here’s 50 cents more.” So I made $1.50, and someone will
give you about 25, 30 cents tip, so I make about $1.80.
LKN: That’s good, that’s good. So do y – what else do you remember about your timein Toronto at that time?
SI: Well, I had to make new friends. The, the hard thing was to make friends, because
there’s discrimination, even in 1947. So for my brothers and all of us, we had to findways to make friends, get jobs, really – so you – you know, you take abuse orwhatever, you know. But people are curious. You know, you make friends, and you
build trust. You know, like, they get to know you. So I made a good friend on mystreet. Guy named Jimmy Wheeler, and he liked me, so he would take me out to meetwith so many things, and he was always a – one that’s – like, he always figured he
was a girl’s man, back in those days.

13

He was a good guy to know, because he was able to open doors for me. ‘Cause I went
to a community centre one night, ‘cause he says, “Come on Sid, we’ll go tonight. We’ll
go pick up some girls.” You know, because they had Friday night dancing. So thiswould be 1948, so – I don’t want to go, you know, and that’s –I, I want to keep
friends. And I remember at [Dixon Hall], this lady called Mrs. Fleury, Mrs. Fleury.
Never met her in my life, but when Jimmy – James brought me there, and she says,“Who’s your friend?” I can hear her now. She was a – “Well, that’s Sid.” “Sidney!”“Sidney.” She says, “Sidney! Come over here. Come on in, and I’m going to introduce
you to everyone on the whole dance floor.” And she says – and when the dance wasover, she said, “Now Sidney, I want you to come tomorrow morning. If you’ve got
nothing to do, I want you to come tomorrow morning to join in our community
activities.” So the next morning I did go, and you know, thank goodness to her,because that opened a door for me. It gave me another way to look at myself andenjoy, and I learned to become a singer. Because I – gave me another way to look atmyself, to join, and I learned to become a singer, because we have to always sing. So
I always give her all the credit. For my community service that I do, I give her all thecredit for getting me started, because I never thought about it until later on in life,
when they interviewed me on TV. They said, “How did you get involved in thecommunity? What made you be – get involved in the community?” The first personthat came to mind was Mrs. Fleury, at [Dixon] Hall, and I promoted her for opening
doors to me. So that’s one thing that –LKN: You said there was some discrimination in Toronto at that time.
SI: Oh yeah, yeah. Well see, because of – even then, you know, the – we all had tomake money then, and you live on the street where there’s a lot of war veterans, too.
It’s okay. We’re not drinking, and you know, things are okay because in your own
area, people are all friendly, you know? They made [indistinct], they made friendson the street, but poor people, they’re wanting their own [brings hands together]
together. So if you live on their street, they’re not going to be fighting against you,
you know. You know, so discrimination would be maybe the bread man, who wascoming down, and you know, and I’d give the bread man help, because they used tobe horse and buggy. Horse and you know, horses [the driving man]. They used tocome down the street, and so I used to help him. He’ll give me a quarter for helping
him. So Saturday morning, since they’re not selling papers there in the morning, I’ll
go and help him. And when we’d go to a certain neighbours, and they see medelivering pa – bread, they’d see I’m Jap, you know. They’d say, “You’re a Jap.” And
they really sort of started, you know, yelling, and called me all kinds of names, andthe bus driver – the bread man would come and fight for me. But there was that kindof hostility. In your own neighbourhood, it wasn’t bad. You would have your own
friends, you know, but once you get out of your district ‘cause you’re – an area –[draws a square with his fingers] every area in Cabbagetown, there’s a certain
district that you belong to. So if I went north of Dundas Street, I’m in a different
district. If I go west of Sherbourne, I’m in a different district. If I go across River
Street, I’m in a different district. So the only area would be where – let’s say from
Sherbourne over to River Street, and north to Dundas. That would be my district,‘cause I know when I go into the next district, there was a little bit of [shakes palmside to side] uneasiness.
14

LKN: Did you go to school during this time?
SI: Yes, I went to Park – Park School for grade, grade 8, and then – there it was good,to go to school there, too. It was good during – but then when I went to grade 9, I
was selling papers. I wanted to find another job, you know, I need a summer job, so
my mother got me a job at St. Michael’s Hospital washing dishes, because she
worked part-time there. So – and then – and that was a real good thing, because –remember I said that we only had a tub bath? So we only took a bath once a week.
Most days I’d shower, because 5 cents, I could save. Buy myself a bottle of pop. So
we’d take a shower instead of a bath. Bath was 10 cents, somewhere around there,
and then when I got the job washing dishes at the hospital, I could shower every
night. So I became Mr. Clean after that, you know, so I was very grateful, working at
the hospital.
So I went to St. Michael’s during the summer – during the winter months. I’d leave at
4 o’clock. I’d get there at 4:30, get ready. By 5 o’clock, we’d wash dishes until 7. Twohours, we would wash dishes. And then my brother came and got a job, so mybrother and I would – then there’s my cousin Dick. He just passed away yesterday.
He just passed away yesterday. You know, he’s 73 years of age. Just passed away
yesterday. Got the news – but he would come in and work washing dishes with us.
The three of us would wash dishes. Two people clean and I’d run the machine. So it
was a good deal – good for us to bring part-time money, and helped our family.
But then in summer time, then I had the – I went down to the farm, down in
Chatham, to do tobacco farming, to make money. You know, ‘cause I’d get 50 centsan hour. And that was hard work. We spent two months working there. I was only
14; my brother was only 13. And then in – in the Chatham, like Cedar Springs where
we had a – well, it was – my uncle and aunt worked for Elliot Farms, and they got a
job there. But they run the farm for the – Mr. Elliot, and what happens there is thatthey needed helpers to come to work the ground – the grounds, and it so happens tobe that when I was down there – there’s this Suzuki family there, and there’s Tak
Suzuki. It’s quite a story, because the Suzuki family – Fred Sasaki married one of thedaughters. And the youngest daughter, Tak, she worked with me, and I worked with
her and my uncle, and we were farming the whole two months.
Now I had this beautiful girl all to myself during the working hours, and on
weekends – weekends, the Chatham boys would come – Japanese boys would comeand take her out, and I was so jealous! [Chuckles] You know, of course, she waspretty older than me. It was puppy love, you know, and what, what really got me –the next year, after I’m thinking about her so much, and you know, I think I’ll go backagain the following year to work on the farm. I didn’t want the job – I could wash
dishes but I could make more money working on the farm. My biggest
disappointment was her family moved, and I got to live in the house that they lived
in all by myself! [Laughs] So two months, I lived by myself. So that wasdisappointing. So that’s a great story I tell Tak, because today she’s in a wheelchair,and her – she’s – her son is Bill [Hassa?]. Bill, the fellow from TD Waterhouse. So,
what a story.
15

LKN: Did you continue on and go to school?
SI: Yeah. I continued on, and I, I got through Central Tech High School. See, there was
no way that I was going to go to university, because – because we, we had family tolook after. And my brother, my oldest brother said, “Okay, this is our plan. So this is–“ We’re still young, you know. My brother that says, “This is what we got to do: wegot to look after our mother, and we got to educate the younger ones. You know,
we’re going to work, and we got to pay off – we got to buy a house, got to pay the
mortgage off.” So, you know, make sure we turn everything you know, like we – so
we made a commitment, the four brothers. You know, so – being the third oldest –no, I’m [not?] – just because I’m [not?] third oldest, that was not the reason. It’s justthat it was a commitment that we made. So I keep my commitments, you know?
So every penny I made, you know – ever since I worked, every penny, no matter if it
was a penny, a dollar, one cent or $1.83, or $2.05 – every penny I gave to my mother,and then I gave it to my brother. And even when I got a full-time job, every penny I
made, I gave my cheque to my brother – ‘cause my brother was an accountant. He
became – went to night school and became an accountant. I never short changed
nothing, I gave every penny to my – you know, ‘cause that’s my commitment. Theygave me a $15 allowance. Imagine that. That’s all I got, $15. I spent $15 in one nightand I had to work a second-hand job! You know, so I got a second-hand job on a
Saturday and made money so I could survive. But that’s the way it was. So we kept
our commitment.
And then even when I graduated high school, I met – Central Tech, I met Marie atwhere I went to get a job, and we went steady from the first time we met, and shecame to my graduation. But then we split up, because there’s no way I was going to
get married, and no way that she knows that I’m going to get married, ‘cause we got
a house to – got a family to look after. So we – but we always stayed together, overthe seven years, and then my brother Kenny got married, my second oldest brother,and he got married ‘cause I introduced him to a girl. I used to put on a lot of parties. I
used to put parties on, and then I needed somebody, so I asked my brother to stayover one – to make a partner for another group of Vancouver – well they went andfall in love, and they married within the year. You know, so I said, “Alright, alright.
Kenny, aren’t you going to help pay off the house?” He says, “Oh well, it’s almost paid
off anyways.” So I said, “Well, go ahead. It doesn’t matter.” And then my brother got
a – my oldest brother met a girl, so when we paid the house off, he got married. And
then I got married. But I was going around with Marie for seven years!
LKN: She was patient.
SI: [Laughs] No, I did the right thing. You know, that’s what –LKN: So then what did – after finishing high school, what did you do for work?
SI: Oh well, yeah, I went to – see, I took up car engineering at Central Tech, so when I
graduated I got a job at the Bank of Nova Scotia, 44 King Street – that’s the original
Bank of Nova Scotia building – and I went to work as an engineer’s helper. So I’dwork in a boiler room, doing all the odd jobs. I helped the plumbers, carpenters,
electrician. I helped the trades, and then I got a [course] class certificate, so within
the year I moved on to work – the chief engineer liked me so much. So he got a job at16

the Crown Life building, the insurance building up at Bloor and Church, so I moved
with him, and got a job there. And they’re building a new building, and I stayed there
until I was 21. Soon as I turned 21, I already want my third-class certificate, so I got
a job at the Eaton Company. And then I got a job with Eaton [ship]1 work, shovellingcoal, and stayed with Eaton’s for 40 years. 40 years. [nods] I became a national
engineering environment manager at the end. Took a long time.
LKN: When you take a look back at the – your, your war experience, how do you
think that affected your life?
SI: The war experience? Well you know, it made us – to become good citizens. I thinkthat it give me a sec – for me it gave me a security, in a sense, because my motherwas very insecure, worrying all the time, you know. She was always so worried
about causing problems, like – growing up, for myself, ‘cause – especially me,
because I was the third oldest, and I was very outgoing. She would always be very
careful with me to make sure I don’t get into trouble. You know, she always said to –remind me that to be a good boy, and always remember to be a good, good boy. Like
you know, of course, Mother always said good boy. And to keep a good name for thefamily and don’t disgrace the Japanese name. I think that was a good lesson to learn,because I upheld that the best I could because, you know – that’s one thing I thinkmost Japanese did. I think all of us did. We all strived to do our best, to be a good
citizen, a good person, which we are to begin with. You know, I think we’ve done agood job. That’s what I think was the most challenging – always working hard. So, sothat gives you incentive, you know, because Japanese people have to prove
themselves. So no matter where you went, you’re always second-class citizens. You
feel second class because you’re the only one, maybe when you go to school orwhatever it is, if you get a job – you got to prove yourself. I always felt that you had
to work hard to prove yourself better than the regular person and I felt that you
always got to build – so with Eaton’s, no difference. I worked hard, made a good
name, built a reputation.
So when I became – up the ladder, became a chief engineer, I was able to show agood example. You know, I think one things is very important is to show leadership,or show whatever – show by good example. Respect, care for the next person. I do
the little extra, extra. So when I became chief, I was more concerned about giving agood name for the station engineers, ‘cause station engineers, they didn’t have agood name, ‘cause the word “stationary” says – you run a big power plant, but you’re
stationary. So you’re standing still. Well, people like ourselves, we’re motivators, you
know? We don’t want to be stationary, so we get out and feel we want to prove andmake the name better, so soon as I became a chief engineer, I joined the PowerEngineers of Ontario. Branch of Toronto, first, and I did everything to promoteengineering and to get out of the box of stationary and to open up and be more
important of – to the company. So just don’t be a chief of the motor room, be a chiefof the whole building. So, so by then the Eaton Company opened up the chiefengineers to become in charge of trades, which was a big thing, because when I took
over as chief engineer, my first job was to look after 19 people. I never looked after –1 Possibly referring to SS Eaton.

17

only one person and all of a sudden I’m in charge of all the trades, plus myengineering skills. So it was a demanding job but it was a interesting job, But mygoal was to make the stationary engineers very important in the company so they
could always talk about how good the engineers are, and how important andbeneficial it is to the company that you have that chief engineer, or engineering
department, or a department that could look after multi-trade, look at the building,and that’s what happened for myself, because I worked to do many other things. To
learn.
The art of learning is learning from other people, you see. The secret is – whenever I
was writing an exam, whenever a technician come in, I go backwards – bend overbackwards to learn from them. I would say, “Let’s take a look at thermostat control
on the wall, that’s on the wall there.” I says, “Hey,” You know, his name is Joe
Richards. I’d say, “Joe, how does that thing work? You know, what does it do? How
does it make it work? Show me.” And he’d show me and then I’d go over and makecoffee or tea, sandwich, some things, and say, “Joe, come on over. I’ve got something
made for you. You know, have something.” And then we’d make friends, you know –[End of part 2][Start part 3]
SI: And then when I’m writing exam or something, and I know an engineer can gonight school and meet a guy that runs a steam turbine in a big power plant. I don’tknow anything about steam engines. I got to write about it. I says, “When you open
up your machine, let me know.” So middle of the night, he would say, “Hey,tomorrow night – midnight shift. If you’ve got time, come on over. Stay with meovernight.” So I stayed overnight, the whole night, learning about steam – and thenon the way I learn how they operate the boiler room, so I learned some more, andyou know, so he teaches me. So all these little things, you know, you learn frompeople. But you’ve got to reach out, you know, because everybody got something togive you. All you need to do is ask – but also vice versa. I would help people. So, alittle bit – life is about – life is giving and receiving, you know, but learning. Learning.
LKN: Sid, you’re very, very involved in a number of community projects andorganizations, and you have been for many, many years – decades. Can you tell me
about some of the highlights?
SI: Well, to begin with, I never wanted to come to the Centre, but I know – it so
happens – leadership leads you, like – I don’t mean lead. Led, like when I say“leadership”, I’m thinking it’s called “led”-manship. Like, someone leads you in and,and – it’s like your children, you know? David takes a Boy Scouts – I’m busy working
my way up at Eaton’s, you know, the engineering – I want to do a good job, and all ofa sudden, he joins a Boy Scouts. So the Boy Scouts – then he volunteers, so they
[indistinct] knocking on doors and [indistinct] make sure you stay. So then I stayand meet the person, and next thing you know, I become an Akela, a leader of a Boy
Scouts – Cubs. Now, in order to do a good job, you’ve got to know the rules andregulations. So I read about the Boy Scouts, you know, it’s quite – one of the bestthings is do your best, and do a good turn every day. Well, I was doing a lot of good18

things like that, and I said, “Well, that’s the right thing to do.” So, I says, “In order forme to be a good leader, I must set a good example.” So I quit swearing. [laughter]I did everything that’s going to be proper, and I never played favouritism, because
then – I’ve got another leader come in, because I didn’t want to be a leader. I said tothe, the person that I would become a helper but not a leader because I neverworked with kids in my life. But no one showed up the next day, and the next day I
was made Akela, and nobody showed up again, but one of the fathers came and thena mother. So the father of a boy came in. I says – and he was a great engineering –smart guy. I says – name was Bill [Sink?]. I said, “Bill, I tell you what. You look after
my son, I’ll look after your son, and we will not – you know, you do your own
things.” And this lady said she’ll look after your son, you know, so that we don’t –like – we don’t have any favouritism, you know. And we built that Boy Scouts rightup – Cubs right up to almost max, from 25 or 26 to 36. And I learned so much about
people, like, their personalities and how you have to motivate some and giveencouragement [stuttering] and then people that have lot of energy, you got to learn
to control them, ‘cause some people are very high – you know, like, like abnormal,
and you know, sometimes – so you got to learn to cool them down, but you’re going
to treat them real good.
So I learned a lot over the five years, and then Marie – and then David took upmartial arts at the Centre, and Marie one day says “Hey, you’re going to take David
down to the Centre.” I said, “Oh jeez, Marie, I don’t – you know, I work all week, and I
don’t want to go to the Centre.”2 But then [I go and I’m like, ?] “Well, I have to go.”“We’ll be seeing you around.” Well, I went and talked to the – I went down to theCentre, not wanting to join the Centre at all. I didn’t want to be among Japanesepeople like as [gestures with hands pointing at each other] because I was [gestureswith hands pointing outwards] Remember, very open to be a good Canadian, mix
with all non-Japanese people. You know, feel comfortable in that situation. But thenwhen I got to the Cultural Centre, I had never even thought about Japanese people asmuch – like I said, my boy friends and friends, you know, family. But gee, when I
come to the Centre, and three months after, I [help him out], Kadoguchi, who is thefounding member, but was the executive director, and he asked me one day, “Will
you come on the board?” And I didn’t even know was a board was! “Oh, board of
directors. Oh, that’s what it is.” So then I said, “Well, maybe I will.” ‘Cause [he sayswant] younger leaders – younger people to get involved.
So a friend of mine and I will join together, and jeez, and then next thing you know,
I’m on the board and meet so many nice people, and – and they do all kind ofvolunteer work, and it just suited my personality, like – all of a sudden I [meet] thesewonderful people – nicest people you ever want to meet. So giving, so kind. And you
know, it was just – it was just easy for me to join them. So I was – first year I was on
the board of directors. Second year I became second vice-president, and then at thattime, Toyo Takata found the first landed immigrant from Japan, ‘cause Toya Takata
was a former president of the Centre. He came to the meeting one day. He says, “Hey,2 All reference to "Centre" refers to the Japanese Canadian Cultural Centre.

19

you know, the first – I did a research, and the first landed immigrant was Manzo
Nagano.” So at that meeting, we were just talking, you know. “Why don’t we do anational event, you know, for the – you know, centennial year.” Like, we just – it juststarted from there, and it came to be [nods] what it was.
LKN: Tell me about the centennial year.
SI: Well, how look – I’m just going to say – how lucky it was for me to become thepresident of the Cultural Centre in the centennial year, you know. Centennial year
was a very challenging, rewarding – it was a really, one of the great projects to do. It
united everyone together. So that was the goal. I wasn’t on the – I was on thecommittee, but I wasn’t on the national, because the Centre – you know. We had an
Ontario director, an Ontario centennial chair, Mikiyo Nakamura. Toronto had two:
[Kunio Soma?] and [Keigi Saisho?]. They were in the Buddhist Church and United
Church, they were small leaders. So – and then we had the President [gestures atself] – I was Cultural Centre – and national, they had an [altered] NAJC [National
Association of Japanese Canadians] because they all had like – JCCA [Japanese
Canadian Citizens’ Association], at that time. So with that we were able to form thecommittee, which – I attended all the meetings because right here in Toronto, rightin the Centre.
So it opened the doors for many, many people to get together and brought out
people from out of the woods that never [indistinct] here. They all start coming in.
So it brought together, right across the country, all the Japanese Canadians together,because it was a time to celebrate the – to let the Canadians know who we are. How
proud we are to be Canadians. So I think that was a great thing that we did. And
through the centennial came the, the – to look after the isseis, for all the hard work
they did. So that was one of our prime objectives, was to look after the isseis and theolder niseis, of course, and to fight for redress. So these are quite very important –good things that came from the centennial.
So that’s where Momiji Healthcare Society was born, officially born. You know, andthen right across the country, there’s – other communities all started to look at – oneof their pet projects would be – the focus would be on the, on the seniors. Priority.
And then the redress was started by the younger people.
LKN: Tell me about redress.
SI: Redress? Well, the redress – I thought the, the redress was really initiated by thethird generation, the younger third generation. Like people your age or younger thatsaid – oh, it would be your age – that said, “We should – we should do something
because the – see the niseis and isseis, they’re quiet.” Like, we’re so busy working,you know? Like in that case I’m more like a nisei, in a sense, because we’re, we’re
working hard and keeping a good name. The fight for redress, it was reallyinstigated – or rose – brought up from the sanseis. And thank goodness for theirleadership, because when they came out – that’s why, in the centennial year, we had
more Japanese Canadian marrying Japanese. Like, Japanese [waves hands to showconnection] Japanese got married. So a lot of the young couples that you see, came –that you see today, like, at that age group, were all married to Japanese, because
that’s what brought them out. They all came to functions together, so it brought a lot
20

of young people together. But – but also – oh well, one of the biggest projects we didwith Ontario was put the Centennial Bell into Ontario Place. You know, Centennial
Bell, Ontario Place? And that bell’s been ringing since ’77.
LKN: What was our role? The Japanese Canadians –SI: [Japanese] Canadian Cultural Centre? We were there, yeah. Well, we – [I thought
we had] everything happened here. We’re fundraising, you know, we’re very
involved. But as a total community – because – like I said, Mikiyo Nakamura was on
Board of Directors, he’s Ontario – [Koyu?] and [Keigi?] – we’re all communityminded, you know, and the Centre was a place to meet to raise funds, so we hadcommittees and so forth. Being president in those centennial years was great forme , because we got so many – we did the, the sword exhibit. Best ever in the – they
say that was the best sword exhibit anywhere, you know, in North America. And I
would believe so. We put it in Ontario Science Centre. You know, what, what a goodjob we did. But then we all had good people, like motivation – everybody was into it,
you know? So people like ourselves, we just get involved. So we raised funds, dowalkathons, you know, all kinds of things. But – just so many. When we did thebiggest picnic – I was co-chairman – biggest picnic ever in the city of Toronto forJapanese. 4000 people went.
LKN: What was that?
SI: Centennial picnic. Today, the Ja – what we call the picnic, you know, the JapaneseCommunity Picnic. This year – this used to be run by JCCA, and then since thecentennial, it becomes as a JC, Japanese Canadian Community Picnic. But that was
one of the best picnics we ever had. 4000 people.
LKN: Can you tell me about your involvement in Momiji?
SI: Yeah. Well see, when I was president in 1977-78, with the centennial, I went to
all the meetings with Momiji Healthcare Society. Well, who would not care for yourseniors? I got a mother. We all got parents, you know? So we know how important it
is. So I went religiously to the meetings and contributed, you know, because you
listen and you know, things, and so it was right – it was good timing to form Momiji
Healthcare Society, so from – from that committee – I always felt like I was afounding member like everybody else, but the signing officers were the 7 people likeFred – Fred Sunohara, Fred Sasaki, John Kawaguchi, Roger and Mary Obata, Roy
Shinobu, and Kay Oki, I think his – Kazuoki Oiye. Kazuo, the lawyer. There was the 7people, they were the signing officers. But whole committee – the church, people,
the leaders of different organizations were all there and we helped form thatorganization. And I’ve been involved ever since, because I went to all the places tolook for sites and everything, you know, and then went on to all the fundraising[indistinct] and you know, all the way through ‘til it was built in ’92. I’ve been on theboard many times.
LKN: You touched on the issue of redress.
SI: Okay.
LKN: What was your involvement in redress?
SI: Redress – I was, I was – when we had the redress meetings – you know, I went toevery meeting – not every one, though. I shouldn’t say every one, but I went tomeetings right at the start. I was one that was against compensation.
LKN: Why?
21

SI: And I’ll tell you, there was a meeting that were held in 1977, ’78, at the Centre, inthe west room. 100 people were there. And that morning I ran and thought – ‘cause
you know, I run and think things out, you know. I says, “I’m all for redress but I’magainst the compensation. Because,” I says, “why should we have to tax us? Like, youknow, Canadian citizen. Why should we tax us? I’m a Canadian, so why should I tax
myself?” Like, I’m just saying. Tax my friends – why should I tax them, charge them?
And then so I went to meetings. You know, there were 100 people, and it was to mysurprise, they says, “Okay now, we want the redress. Should it be for individualcompensation or community compensation? Like, to the pot.”
And the first person that got up was my uncle, the guy that sponsored us! [Gosh][indistinct] [My eyes] popped out of my socket. Tosh gets up, he says, “Well, what
the Canadian government did to us – I want individual compensation.” And it wentfrom there all the way across, and it came to me, ‘cause we’re coming across. So I got
up to speak, and I said that I think what they did for the – what they did, to, to send
us into the internment camps, I think was the right thing to do. I said that. I says, thereason is that to, to – to save us from hard times, because if you – in the west coast,in Vancouver, when they – if they did – didn’t do that, what was going to happen to
the Japanese people there, with all the people? The people are mean, you know,
when it comes to gatherings and it takes not much of a leader to get everybody
against the Japanese people. There’d be so much sabotaging going on –killings,
unnecessary killings. So I says, “I felt that that was the right thing to do, to save us
from harm.” And they booed me! You know, I said, “Well, let me finish.” You know, so– but I says that, “But what they did, you know, to take away all your goods andleave it like that – no, I don’t agree with that, but for – for doing internment camp, I
thought was the right thing to do to save us from harm.” So then I says, “I’m for – notfor individual compensation. I’m again – I vote for no compensation, because why
should we tax ourselves?” So when they had a vote, three people put their hands up
for me. 97% was for individual, pretty well. But I had only three, and then my two
friends phoned me and says, “Sid, we decided to go with the majority, so you’re left
alone. Oh, Majority rules, you know.” [chuckles] But I said, “I spoke my piece.” Well, I
spoke my piece, from my side of thoughts, and I really thought about it for an hourrunning, and I was thinking about the harm. I wasn’t thinking about – like, it was an
injustice, though, that’s for sure.
LKN: Now that you know what the settlement was, how do you feel about it?
SI: Well, I thought that what they did was good, and you know, that the $21,000 thatthey gave – and they – I liked that $12 million that they had in the – in thefoundation, the NAJC Foundation. I think that proved to be the most beneficial of all.
Because individual compensation, you can give – where you can spend and you
know, people just spent money and you know, it’s gone, but the redress foundation I
thought was a great thing, because they gave opportunities to communities – used tobuild their NAJC offices, educational places that they were asking for, whatever thefoundation allowed, and cultural centres. The most important thing, I should say –I’m sorry – I should say, was to do our priority, to build – look after our seniors. That
was the first priority, then the NAJC offices. But for sure it was – the prime object
was for seniors.
22

So I thought, I thought that proved to be very beneficial, because the money that –and I’ve got to give the redress foundation committee good, you know, applause, youknow, for a great job they did, because the $12 million ended up being $20 million
because of good investment. It belonged in these – how they get money, and it took
so long, so the interest rate kept building and building, so more projects got done.
More money became available. So places like the Cultural Centre – let’s take theMomiji Healthcare Society. They asked for $1.6 million, okay? And they received$1.6 million to get their project off the ground, but they also asked for anotheralmost $800,000, I believe. The received another $800,000. Don’t quote me on that,
but it’s around there. But they’ve got probably something around $2.4 -- $2.2 to $2.4
million, okay, for the project. The Centre received $1.2 million, of which we used
$300,000 to renovate the existing building at 123 Wynford, and $900,000 came overto this new project here, at this facility. And other cultural centres received all theway across the country. But the most important thing is that a lot of senior citizen
homes were built, especially in Vancouver, and the Momiji Senior Centre is abeautiful place.
LKN: Can you tell me about the – Caledon Place?
Si: Caledon Place? Yeah, Caledon Place – that came in 1974-75, when I first joined
the board, and the reason was the board of directors said that we’ve got to get moresanseis into the Centre. So the way that we do that is through – let’s see – and thiscame from [George Odaki] – at that time he was on our committee, he was on
executive board – said, “Why don’t we put a bowling – family bowling on a Sunday?”And the only repercussion we received was from the church, saying Sunday’s areligious day, but we went ahead and did it anyways. We filled the alleys full ofpeople. So we came back to the board and says, “Recreation is the way to go, to getsanseis in, and their families. So let’s look for some property.”
So we formed a committee to look for properties which – I was on the committee oflooking for properties, but John Kawaguchi, the president – and John Kawaguchi,
okay? And Goro Kawaguchi was his – was the silent brother that – he was doing
construction work, but he was the silent person that did a lot of things. Like when
we go to – let’s say, when we went to Lake Muskoka to look at a property up there –a lakefront, on Lake Russo – Goro went ahead and got the – one of those housetrailers, and we were able to go up to, to Lake Russo and we almost bought Lake
Russo property called Sugar – Sugar Hills. It was an 85-acre property, and we madea motion at the board level, and John Kawaguchi asked for 75% affirmative, youknow, yes, and what happened is that we lost the vote by two people, because two
people abstained from voting. He called them no, so we never purchased thatproperty. So that’s how close we were. Today that property’s worth so much money.
But then even at that time – heritage conservation, they were even thinking about
then. You know, the distance from here to Muskoka, you know – well, whatever it is.
So what happened – the following year, he decided that the new president came in,and didn’t want any part of it, so he squashed the idea of looking for a recreation
property. But in ’77, we opened the door again when I became president, and wesearched for properties. In 1981, Wintario grants came out, and the Wintario grants23

had been – Sam [Nishama?] was the president, and he says that the Wintario grants
would put the money up, he’s all in favour. And so the board agreed, and that’s when
Caledon Place was purchased. So Caledon Place was a recreation property that wasto draw in more sanseis into the Cultural Centre.
LKN: Okay.
SI: The community.
LKN: How about the purchase of 6 Garamond? How did that come about?
SI: Did Garamond come – well 1990, I – when I became president here, we were –we were going through an expansion at the existing property. We had to fight for the
redress money, ‘cause the redress wasn’t so settled. So by then, when we got theredress settled, we hired Raymond Moriyama. We did our research, by the way, onarchitects, and out of the study report, Raymond was selected. And so we went
ahead to, to allow the plans to – Raymond to, to go ahead with the presentation that
he made, and meanwhile he was doing that, the – we started to lose floor space, anda lot of complications came in, and we’re – we’re saying that hey, we’re not getting
the value for our money, you know, for what we’re investing. And we’re losing floor
space and it’s going to cost us more money.
So – and then, at that time – 1995, ‘96 – the property in the area started to comedown, and Sam Nishama, who was a former president, told me one day – he said
that, “Why don’t you buy the Shell building across the Don Valley Parkway, on thewest side? They’re selling their property.” And he says – I says, “Sam, that – I don’t
think it’s a good idea, because you know, it’s going to be very difficult for us to sell –to get rid of the old property.” But then, another six months later, when I was – sixmonths later, Gary Kawaguchi on the board. Mark Yamada, who’s – also was a pastboard of director many years ago – he says, “Why don’t you buy a property?” So
Gary brought it to the board level. So at the board level, we says, “Well, why don’t welook at outside properties?” You know, ‘cause he brought up the Shell building again.
Same thing. So we formed a committee. Gary would look at the outside properties,
and I would be responsible for looking at the expansion of the Cultural Centre – thealternative place to build on the Cultural Centre, because the existing place that we
agreed to go with Raymond Moriyama, that was handled by Steve Oikawa and Roy –Roy Shen. So – but since I said that the property should be evaluated for itself, weshould do our homework and make sure everything’s right before we go outside. So
then they says, if that’s the case, you be the chair of that. So I took the chair – me,president, I took the chair, and we did a study on building the back of the centre, theold centre, okay? But when we all come down to it, it comes down that it would bebetter for us to look outside. Like, when we found Garamond, we did a study and we
took the architect – like, Bruce Kuwabara – and he charted [indistinct] this is a goodplace to renovate. This building here. It’s got 30-foot centres. It’s very easy to do
this, very easy. Accommodating, you know, so I can build – we can build a good
cultural centre here.
So finally, it comes down to – so we had to do a study, you know, with thecommunity – to the martial arts people, to the existing people. Then we went out tothe public, like, to meet with people, and we did consultations and – and then talked,
24and we finally come to a conclusion that it’d be best for us to move. So when wecame to a meeting we call the AGM [Annual General Meeting], and we made apresentation and they finally approved that we should buy this place. So that’s how
it came. They said, “This building here came down to a reasonable amount.” Webought this property for $2.6 million, you know, and we plan to do it by phases, youknow, build by phases. So it was a – one of the biggest changes that, you know, that
one community can do, to go – to go out of the box and say – to expand, you know?
You can almost say, expand beyond expectations. [laughter][tape changing noises]
LKN: Can we backtrack – go back in time a little bit, and can you tell me what you
know about how the original cultural centre came about?
SI: Well, I can only give you what – ‘cause I was not involved in that time, but fromwhat I learned is that you know, there was a group of concerned people – it would
be – probably started from the JCCA. They were the only existing community group,
recognized group. And from there they said that we need to build a community
centre. We need to get the Japanese people together, because people were meeting
all over the city of Toronto – church groups, they’d meet with their church groups.
You know, people would have social functions, here and there. It was scattered.
Bowling leagues would start up. You know, just a big community together. So – sothese people, concerned people thought it would be best to build a community
centre, and that’s when they formed a committee and start to look around.
So this would go in the late 50s, I would imagine. And then by the 60s, they thoughtthat it’d be better started to look for properties, you know, so – and that’s what
happened, is that they founded the existing cultural centre here, because at thattime, this area was not populated yet. Don Valley Parkway was just coming up, and aperson like Coby Kobayashi, you know, with a – you know, he’s a very optimistic
person. And he was in real estate business, and he says that in the future, he’d like to– [well] in the future, this is – be right in the centre of the city. It’d be a good place tobuy a property, you know. So he convinced the board of directors at the time thatthey should buy this property. Actually, the original property was supposed to be on
Don Mills and Eglinton, you know – like, over there more [gestures westwards], at
Don Mills and – at Don Mills and Wynford, like in that area. But the, the value – thevaluation on their property – would be better for business and they can do better, so
he relocated to the Don Valley corner here, Don Valley Parkway. He said this would
be a good location. Okay?
There were some people opposed to it, and they wanted to go small, and I thinkwould be – but I think they made the right decision. The most important decisionthat they made was that when they went to apply for the – to build the cultural
centre – and it wasn’t called a cultural centre, it was called the Japanese CanadianCommunity Centre. When they asked for a tax exemption, the government or
whoever that was there said that if you want tax exemption, why don’t you call it acultural centre? And – ‘cause cultural centre could go under the educational tax, you
know? So – tax by-law – so the, so the people went back to the board, and they comeup with a new mission statement, and they re-envisioned the mission statements
and they changed everything to focus to put more culture, like, model friendships
25and culture. But if you look at the four objectives they wrote – to use the facility,[ensure convenience whenever they had time], to go into – to join our cultural
programs – all these – martial arts [one?], martial arts [three?], ikenobo, sumi-e,
shodo, and bunka shishu. All these things. So they – so that’s what they did. They
made it so that it opened the centre to the public at large, to culture. So I think that
was a great move, and – from the people previous to us.
LKN: And how did they finance it?
SI: They raised money on their own. They went from door to door, raising from thepublic. They went right door to door. They would come knocking on the door. In
fact, Ed Sano, that – he lives near our street, lived near our house – he came
knocking at our door, and we gave a small donation, ‘cause we had family, you know.
In 1963, I just had bought a house, and I had a son, so there was not much we could
give. But Marie gave some money. So people like that raised money. So mostly it wasstrictly individuals.
LKN: And they – and did they mortgage?
SI: Yeah, they mortgaged. That’s why they have 85 people – if you saw the board
downstairs. 85 people mortgaged their homes so they could have loans to build. So
you’ve got to give credit to the Japanese community.
LKN: Absolutely. Okay. Sid, tell me about your life now.
SI: I’ve retired. [chuckles] You know –LKN: But you’re still heavily involved at the – in a number of –SI: Ohhh, well, I – you know – well, I really believe in the Centre and what it’s done
for the community, but also for myself. I grew, grew – I mean, I’ve made so manyfriends. I made – I grew as a person, you know, as a person, because you know, youmeet so many wonderful people, and it’s an education. Life is an education, you
know? You give and you learn, you know, or you learn from others. But I’ll say one
thing is that I did promise Bob Kadoguchi, before he died. And this is – it may soundyou know, kind of funny, but Bob Kadoguchi was very ill, and this was in 2000 –1995. Okay, 1995, and it was Good Friday, and I – Good Friday morning, and I got up
and I says, “Listen, Marie.” I said, “Let’s go do some good things today. Let’s go andsee Henry – Henry –“ What’s that name? Henry Ita. He was at the St. John, recoveringfrom a [gestures at back of neck] some severe neck problems in a wheelchair, you
know. So we went to see him, and then I said, “We’ll go and see Bob Kadoguchi at
Bayview Centre.” Because he’s –[End of part 3][Start part 4]
SI: Baycrest Centre, I should say, and then I said, “We’re going to go meet –“ [we had
to go and rest about Barry Kimes?] because phoned to say he wanted to dosomething for the Kobe earthquake, ‘cause that was during the Kobe earthquake
fundraising. So we went to see Henry, and then in the afternoon, about 1 o’clock,
went see Bob Kadoguchi, and his wife was waiting for me. Sue Kadoguchi says – Suesaid, “Don’t go up there. Come and have coffee with me. Bob’s in a coma, so he won’t
be able to see us.” I says – well, after drinking coffee with her for about 10, 15
minutes – “So, you know, we’ve come all the way. Let’s go see Bob.” So she says okay.
26

So we went up, and we talked for about a half hour, you know, just talking about
things, about the Centre, and a lot of happy stuff, and then I said, “Geez, you know,
I’ve got to go. It’s 2:30. 3 o’clock I’ve got a meeting with Barry Kimes.” So I says,“Well, I’m going to leave soon, so I’ll say goodbye to you now.” And then you know,
wished the best for Bob, you know – wished the best for Bob, and opened the door
to go out, and Bob gets up and yells my name. “Sid!” he goes. You know, I rush backto him, you know, and he looked me right in the eye – he just [gestures with hands,
palms down in front of him] sleeping – got up, and he looked at me and says, “Lookafter the Centre.” I said, “Bob, don’t worry. I’ll look after the Centre. I promise you
that.” You know, so I says, “I’m committed.” That’s a true story. And he died thatnight. He died that night. Sue called me the next morning. Saddest news I had.
You know, and then I went to see Barry Kimes and he wanted to raise money for the
Kobe – through Kobe – for the kids of Kobe, so he go onto the committee and helped– he helped us raise money. So a lot of good things.
LKN: Yeah, absolutely.
SI: But anyways – and, and I always say, “I’m committed.”
LKN: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Is there anything else that you would like to share withus?
SI: Well, you know, the community, you see, the – it’s very important, you know.
Like, you know – see when we bought the property in 1996, okay? December 4th, I
think it was December 4th. 1996, we bought this property. We still had to fight fortaxes and all these things. You don’t realize the amount of work it takes to geteverything approved, you know, for the community. And we had some great leadersof our community, like between Marty’s and Gary’s and name the people – they all
just did a great job. Okay, but we still had to fight for tax – you know, we had to go to
the – see, don’t forget we were changing our focus to relocate. We got money thatwas given to us by the NDP [New Democratic Party] party – you know, the Jobs
Ontario. So there’s a story you should know, too, if you want to hear about.
If it weren’t for Jobs Ontario and the NDP party, we would never be where we are.
Because in 1990, when the NDP took over the leadership of the provincial
government, you know, it was – we went to ask for funding for programs, maybe$25,000, and we met with the committee of the – Jobs Ontario committee there, andout of the blue, we’re talking about, you know, what we really – what we want to do
is build a expansion, you know. They said, “Well, why don’t you ask for the capital
grant?” Nobody knew about the capital grant. So we set up a committee and rightaway, Steve and Marty, everybody got together. We presented a $2 million
presentation to the Tor – Ontar – Ontario government to, to – to Frances Lankin. She
was the economic minister – minister of economic development. And so they says,
okay, they’ll give us a million, but they give the Koreans a million, they gave theChinese community a million, they gave us a million. They said, “So if you want theother million, you come and prove it to us.”
So we got a committee together, you know, it’s the same committee, and we got – sothat’s where Shokokai comes in, you see, and I’m going to bring you back to
Shokokai, okay? How important they play. So we met with the Shokokai – we asked
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Teshima, the president of Shokokai, to come to a meeting to help us with this cause,and we needed to get the extra million dollars. And my job as president and things I
do, you know, do the chair – like, I just chaired, that’s all. And we met at Frances
Lankin’s board room, and the – Frances Lankin stood there, [points to his left], andwe got Teshima sitting right near them, and Teshima says, “No, you should sit there.”
And I said, “No, no. I’m sitting here.” And Steve will make the presentation there[gestures at right] and we had so many people lined up, probably, and then – so thenwe did the presentation, and Teshima being there, [points to left] right there, Japaneconomic business was climbing [lifts hands up]. Everything was in a good position,and she says, “I like your presentation. I think that we’ll probably approve it.” We,
we all – we went across to the bar in [indistinct] on Queen’s Park and went into thebar at Sutton Place and we drank says, “This is good.” [pumps fist] andcongratulated ourselves, you know, congratulated Teshima.
Okay, but in 1990, when I became – you know, came back to the Centre – so this isvery important, okay? I would never come on the board ‘cause Steve – I just so
happened I was finishing off Momiji fundraising and things, and Steve says, “Can you
come on the board?” I says, “Aw Steve. Get somebody young.” ‘Cause he is, relative tome. “But if you can’t get anybody – okay, then call me.” Sunday night, he calls me andsaid, “We didn’t get anybody, so can you replace them?” So I said, “Okay.” I said, “I
will run, if you can’t get nobody.” So I went the next Monday morning, to the board,
and I got elected, and so I went to there, and I was voted in, and then that year – thatshort time, I became president.
Well, it was a good thing for me to become president, because I was so much
experienced – over the 10 years I was – I wasn’t away from the Centre. I was
involved with Momiji, I was involved with so many other things – rotary and there’s
so many charity work. I belonged to my business at work – I learned how to do goodbusiness, because building my – like, building – becoming a national manager, likebecoming Ontario manager and all these things. You learn how to negotiate. There’s
so many things you can do. Remember I said I want to be better than the average
person because of our – Japanese, keep a good name. So I work hard – learn, learn,
remember? ‘Cause everything – remember I said – now people don’t realize thatwhen I think of things, I only think of good things, you know? I says, I wanted to do agood job to make it good for engineers. I want them to be proud of their job. I want
the company to be proud of who they are, so we’re going to set a good example bybeing more versatile, more open – you know, who could go from boardroom torunning trade shop? I could run a whole construction business, by the time I learned
the business, you know, because at the work, I learned how to negotiate, I learned
how to order things. I know how to buy multi – products, you know. You know, youknow, like – if I wanted to buy a table from you or if I wanted to buy a dozen of those
things, I know how to negotiate to get better pricing, you know, because everythingis this competitive, you know. It’s like running a business. So I learned – and I
learned from a lot of people, because I – so – so when I came to the Centre, I had a lotof good experience, and I’m so much wiser, 10 years wiser.
28

So when they got me there, now I’m more management, you know, so I come to theboard and I says, “Okay, what are the priorities of the board?” I says, “Name me thepriority. What are you, you know, as your group – what is it, the most important
thing we need?” “Well, we need to fight for redress.” “Well, let’s get that as a firstpriority. Redress. Let’s get this thing finished once and for all. Let’s make apresentation.” “Caledon,” they said, “it needs a manager’s house.” “Okay, then thatwill be a goal.” Gary Kamino was on the board. He said, “We need to do a symposium
to do a feasibility study to – for the future. $20,000 budget, they have.” I said, “Okay,
let’s put that as a priority.” I pushed that through, okay, because these are important
things. The symposium kicked me out of being president, because symposium said,“We need younger leaders.” So next year they [throws hand over shoulder] voted
Steven. [laughter] I got kicked out! And I says, “Hey! Well geez, I don’t want to go
past. I just got here!” [laughs] So I says, “Hey, let me become first vice-president.”And so they say, “You be first [vice]-president.” I, I – I just got there. I’m motivating
everything, and they make me past president. I said, “Aw geez. You know, keep me inthere.” You know, ‘cause – so –So then I said – there was five priorities, and we solve – we accomplished every oneof those priorities. You see, because, you have to get your business management
skills – you know, you learn, and then Steve took over. I was a good vice-president
for him because I’m committed. So Steve, you tell me what you do – I do whatever
you want, because I said I’ll be your first vice-president. So two years I was the firstvice-president, and a good one for him, because he’s my relative. I want him to do agood job. And then he gets a promotion to general manager at Bell, so I becamepresident. For the next 6 years, I was president, but in my sixth year, I says that,“Listen, we’re coming to a new place. This is not for me. We need young people.”Okay, so something didn’t work out well and I became you know, like executive
director for 6 months while we looked for James Heron.
Meanwhile I said to, to Marty and, and Steve, “One of you got to take the president,
you know. Leadership –because that’s not for me. Let me do the outside. Let me
become an ambassador. I don’t know what, you know, but let me be –” So they mademe Special Ambassador to do the outreach, because there’s no one out there doing
anything. See, not everybody got the time, okay? But I have time, and I got – you
know, certain skills that I can use. You know, ‘cause I can reach out to people, youknow, ‘cause I’m – I’m always making friends – respecting people – and by then, I’dbuilt a good relationship – see in 1990, I got the Shokokai to come on board, because
it was Japan [Bashi?], okay? And also I found a networking organization, in 1990,
this network of 18, 20 organizations, and one was to bring people together to work
for a common goal, and my goal was to – if you read it there, it will say – to benefit
the community at large, to help other people, and that was my focus and goal, you
know. And it was sort of just saying – welcomed the ambassador, you know,
goodbye to the consul general. You know, no things are – you know – but benefitting
community at large is much better. Bigger scope, bringing people together –common goals, you know, you work together. So that’s why I formed that one there,with that idea, you know.
29And I got the Shokokai – and if it weren’t for Shokokai – the leader of Shokokai atthat one particular meeting in 1990, we’re welcoming the ambassador, and I put on
the agenda, the Teshima agenda, why don’t we form – why don’t we do something tohelp the community at large? And if it weren’t for the Shokokai leader to speak up, atthat meeting – he was the president – we would never have formed the networkgroup. We would have been – we would never have got a board of directors on tothe – to the Centre, because from that meeting, I was able to convince them to cometo meetings, tell us what they do, what we do. Within the second meeting, they
already had a person picked – or a volunteer picked for a position with the board of
directors. Okay? Because – all because of Japan Bashi, and I thought it was a goodtiming for them to show involvement in the community. Not for money. See, a lot of
people think they were [indistinct] Shokokai only for money. No, for their prestige,
their knowledge, their – their – the level – you know, even to this day I still say to theboard, “Get a Shokokai president to be an advisor to the Centre.” You know? It won’t
hurt you any, and they’ll take an important, responsible position to help you.
LKN: Yes.
SI: So those games who – the network’s been going on, and to this day – so Marty’s
the president now, because I said – was president for – chairman for 15 years. So
again, should get younger leaders. So a lot of things that happen. Like, even – if you
want to say, talk about the Centre, [I joined Rotary Club ?] I says – and I know I’m –you know, I’m – like I said before, I don’t just go and do things. I learn from otherpeople. Charlie and Tosh before, back in the – when the Centre really needed money– they used to run bingos. Then they started running Monte Carlo nights, raisingmoney and so when I went to Rotary Club, I said – this is 1980, ’79-’80. I said to thefundraiser of our committee at the Rotary Club, “Hey, why don’t we raise money?
And I’ll help you, you know, raise money for Easter Seals.” So he says, “I like theidea.” So I came to the Centre – I made a presentation report – I says, “Why don’t welearn to – why don’t we raise some money for Easter Seals? Help the handicappedchildren, and why don’t we show the Cultural Centre take a leadership role to show
how a cultural centre learns how to give out, instead of always going and asking,[government] for money.” ‘Cause you already hear, all they want – people is asking
government for money. Why don’t we show a way to give to the community? Give toa cause? And I talked to Rotary to say that okay, we’ll do joint projects. For 15 years
we ran a Monte Carlo night for Easter Seals. For me, it was easy because at Rotary, I
had – 9 years I worked with handicapped kids, and since I worked with Boy Scouts,
and everything, I got how to play Monte Carlo, I know how to play a guitar, I cansing, I knew all those cup songs, I could take kids, you know – so I make friends, you
know? So my daughter and my young [little daughter?] – she passed away, but weused to take handicapped kids on the Saturday, especially from group homes, for thewhole day. You know – do good things, you know. Yeah, yeah – like I said – learn.
Everybody teaches you something.
LKN: Yes. Anything else you’d like to share with us?
SI: I can tell you a lot of things, there, you know.
LKN: Next time.
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SI: No, no, but I – like I said, we have to go out [this way]. It was very important for
him to, to work with the community, and all the – see, we’ve got to think of what theJapanese people can contribute to the future of the – Canada, and our history is soenriching to give, you know? Like, it’s a good story. It shows how a, a – you know –small group of people can go through racism and discrimination, go through theinternment camps, come out and they, they – they intermingle, like forced tointermingle because they’re forced to come out. If you want to go where you cannot
live together, you got to integrate in the city, you know? So – and then our children
grows, and the intermarriages, and your children, like – your children, they’re allrich with culture. I always call it the hidden culture that they don’t know they have,but other people see. And our name is so good and clear. It’s to show Asian people orforeigners coming in today, to say that, “Hey,” You know, like the [indistinct] people,
for example, they complain and this and that, you know. I says, “Learn to work hardand build a good name. You know, integrate, but – you know, to – and we’ll show
you some ways to do it. If you want to build a cultural centre,” I says, “We’ll be thefirst to show you how.” You know, because we want them to become good citizens.
So that’s why I say that we’ve got to keep ourselves involved, because we’re sosmall, and if you don’t, you’re going to be snowed under because there’s so manyrich cultures. Like Chinese and the South Asian people who are coming in, so many –we got to be able to stay there. And that’s why I say that you got to stay out there
and join things. So be involved with the place. The place says, “We don’t need you.”
Well, my god, they do! I always tell the chief of police, “You should be happy you got
someone from a – the – community, that went through all the hardships andeverything, just liked I said to you, and became good citizen. And it’s a plus for you
to say that there is this group of people living 132 years in the country. So that’s theimage you want to leave. You know, so –LKN: Yeah. Okay. Well Sid, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Thankyou.
SI: Okay. You’re welcome.
LKN: Now Sid, if you – I mean, thank you so much for the time you spent. You’ve told
me so much. What –SI: Those stories, there – I told everybody there, there’s all kind of things I joined,
but, you know – I mean – people don’t realize, but you know, everything you do, you
do for good reasons. Try not to do selfish things, you know? ‘Cause life is about how
to do things for good cause.
[End of interview]31