Interviewee: Sue Kai (nee Matsugu)
Interviewer: Peter Wakayama
Date: December 17, 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Accession Number: 2010-021[Start part 1]
Peter Wakayama: Okay, I think we’re going to start, okay? Because, smile, relax, you
know. Um, when were you born?
Sue Kai: I was born January 26th, 1925, in a small, small town in Alert Bay, British
Columbia, which is on the northern tip of Vancouver Island. The people are mostly
Native Indians, and there were only three Japanese families: the Kawaguchis,Shintanis, and the Matsugu family [Sue’s family].
PW: And, uh, your mother and father came from where?
SK: They’re both from Fukuoka-ken, which is in Kyushu, the southern part of Japan.
PW: And why did they come from Japan?
SK: I think they left Japan for a better life in Canada.
PW: And they both came together?
SK: I think my mother came a little later.
PW: Uh, what did your father do there, in Alert Bay?
SK: Oh, the three Japanese men, they were all boat builders, apparently, they werevery skilled boat builders.
PW: And so- and then they raised the family? And how many children did they have?
SK: Well, the Matsugu family, I lived there for one year, and Mom moved back, we
moved to Vancouver, for better education facilities. And then we moved to Powell
Street, which is in the heart of Japantown, “Little Tokyo”.
PW: And how old were you then?
SK: One year old. And I was there from one to 17 years old.
PW: So, basically your SK: My childhood.
PW: Was in Japantown?
SK: Japantown, “Little Tokyo”.
PW: And so, you went to school there?
SK: Yeah. I guess- there’s a famous school called Strathcona School, and I would say,maybe 75- most of the students were niseis [second generation Japanese Canadian].
PW: And, um, and that’s right in Chinatown?
SK: Yeah, that’s right, Chinatown.
PW: And how did you like school?
1SK: I loved school, I just loved school! The only thing, the first day of school, youhave a recess, at recess time you’re supposed to go to the bathroom, but I went
home [chuckles]. And then my mother, I had to rush back, I was in time for school
again. But, see, I didn’t speak English then. So I didn’t know, the first day they asked
me to say “Here”, or “Present”, and I said, “Hai!” And most of us, we spoke nothing
but Japanese, and going to school, that’s where we first learned English.
PW: And, um [clears throat], so the public school there, but you started
kindergarten?
SK: Oh yes, kindergarten, it was run by the Powell Street United Church- a Japanese
Church- run by missionaries. So I learned a bit of English, but we all spoke to eachother in Japanese.
PW: And in the Strathcona School, you graduated grade eight?
SK: Grade eight.
PW: And so, were most of your classmates niseis?
SK: Niseis, and quite a few Chinese- actually, mostly Japanese, Chinese, I don’t knowwhat the rest were [chuckles].
PW: How were your teachers?
SK: The teachers were wonderful! In those days, the teachers all what you got, oldmaids, Miss Faringheight, Miss Watson, Miss Harder, and I don’t think they were
paid too well in those days.
PW: During your childhood, what do you remember about food?
SK: I think I got a good appetite. I ate everything. My mother used to make porksausage fried with cabbage and rice, that was my favourite. Not much money, we ate
supposedly nutritious food, but cheap food, I think.
PW: Did you live in a house in Vancouver?
SK: Yeah, we had a very nice house, and my father was a carpenter, so he’d renovatewe had quite a lovely home, a good house.
PW: But your father was doing carpentry andSK: He worked as the millwright, so he built a house with a nice front porch, agarden in the front, a garden in the back, and a wood shed- they call them maki goya
- and that’s where we did the, uh, mochizuki [sic?], my father made the usu [woodbowl for pounding rice].
PW: And what did your Mom do?
SK: Mom, she was a housewife. Of course, she only spoke Japanese.
PW: Right. And what were some of the recreational activities you did in Vancouver
when you were growing up?
SK: Oh, I think we had the happiest time. We would have roller skates, riding a bike,playing marbles, climbing fences, going to Stanley Park, Hastings Park, we just had ahappy, happy childhood.
PW: You were close by to the baseball diamond; did you see the Asahis play?
2

SK: All the time, it was only two blocks away. I would go all the time, and stand on
sometimes maybe Powell Street, sometimes I’d stand on Cordova Street, sometimes
on Jackson, and sometimes right by the pitcher’s plate.
PW: So, were you a baseball fan in those days?
SK: Yes and no, I guess [chuckles]. I just liked to watch, like Frank Shiraishi, George
Shishido, Ken Kutsukake, Roy Yamamura, they were sharp, and they, could they everrun, and steal bases.
PW: And what was your recollection about radios and records?
SK: Well, we got our first record- it’s a kind of a record [where] you have to wind it
up, enough for the one record to fill, and near the end it would go “grrr” [chuckles].
PW: And you used to listen to the radio?
SK: Yeah. Some of the programs, I’ve forgot now. The radio- we didn’t have T.V.- andradio and phonograph. We just seemed to have fun with little things.
PW: Yeah, you went to Stanley Park often?
SK: Quite often.
PW: And you swam?
SK: Yeah, except, we went to Kitsilano Beach. That’s where we swam a lot. A lot ofniseis went there, and we’d buy chips for ten cents; they were the best chips withvinegar and ketchup and salt and pepper.
PW: What do you remember about the Woodward’s department store?
SK: Well, do I ever know that. Once a month, they call it the “99 cent day”, and a lotof people- I had to take a day off, half a day from school- and my mother would buy
all of our running shoes for 99 cents, and then we’d take a big tin and fill it up, it’scalled, peanut butter, I think it was 9 cents a pound, at Woodward’s, all the Japanese
went there. And we used to lug everything home.
PW: At your home, um, in terms of what they had for cooking, what kind of stove
and, you know, icebox or something, what didSK: We didn’t even have an icebox; we had a little, what’cha [sic] call it, room at theback, and then for a stove, we had a wood stove and a gas stove.
PW: And so, how was the house heated?
SK: With a wood stove, which is rather dangerous; quite often, you’d see all kinds ofsparks from different chimneys. Not everybody had furnaces in those days.
[End of Part 1][Start Part 2, nothing to record][Start Part 3]
PW: Um, so after Strathcona, you went on to high school, tell us about that.
SK: Okay. I went to a school called Fairview High School, and that was the first timethey were all hakujin [non-Japanese], except for a few Japanese, and it was a very3

good school, and we learned shorthand, typing, bookkeeping, math, and English, andthat’s when we had to go by streetcar, we couldn’t walk, and the streetcar tickets
were four for a quarter, and that was a lot of money in those days. Then, forlunchtime, we’d take sandwich, but once a week on a Friday, we’d go to a fish andchips store. Boy, for ten cents, fish and chips and meat pie, and all the nisei, when
we’d get together, we’d have a good time. And, I went there for two years, then I
transferred to Grandview High School, because it was closer to home, and I was able
to walk. And that’s where I went for [grades] eleven and twelve, and I graduatedfrom Grandview High in 1942, the year of the evacuation.
PW: And, um, in terms of the climate in Vancouver, how was the climate in
Vancouver in those days?
SK: You know, when you’re small, you think everybody else’s climate is like
Vancouver, the scenery is beautiful with the ocean and there was always mud, I
didn’t even own a pair of boots until I came to Toronto.
PW: How were girls supposed to behave in your days?
SK: Oh, my mother would say I’m a “timba”, which is “tomboy”. She would say, if I’m
good, I’m “Sumi-chan”, but if I’m bad, it’s “Sumiko”. And she said, “You’ve got to beotonashi, like a girl”. And, that was not too good for me [chuckles].
PW: How did you get along with your brothers and sisters?
SK: We got along very well. Well, actually, I came from a lovely family, and I
happened to be the middle, I’ve got an older brother and sister and a younger, I was
the middle child. I’d get along very well.
PW: Um, you had some special days, you know, Japanese special days, tell us what
you did for New Year’s or Shogatsu.
SK: New Year’s is a day- it seems for days and days- all the mothers, they’re busy
cleaning the house, making gochiso [meal], and New Year’s Day, I can’t believe it; thewomen stay home, and the men come in groups of five, sit down- and my family’s
not for drinking- but they would eat all the sushi, you know, it was a lot of fun, I
enjoyed it, and we would play some Japanese, what do you call them, bean bags, andkaduta, a Japanese game. It was really a Japanese holiday.
PW: Did the fathers go around to the different homes?
SK: Yeah. And some of the people, the young people, some of them liked to drink.
And then they got kind of boisterous, but it was kind of fun.
PW: And what about the boys’ and girls’ festivals, did you celebrate that?
SK: No, not too much; in those days, March the 3rd was girls’ day, and May the 5th
was boys’ day. But we didn’t do anything special, but some people used to decorate
their house with different dolls. But we didn’t.
PW: And then you had mochitsuki, too?
SK: Which is a- well, because my family owned a usu, it seemed to me all the people
on my block came to my backyard, makigoya. It’s very scary, because the two men
4are hitting that thing, and my poor mother putting her hands - and our job was toballs, different shapes.
PW: December the 7th, 1941, was Pearl Harbour. What happened with you?
SK: I’ll never, ever forget that day. It was Sunday- Sunday’s the day we all used to go
to church- and it was early in the morning, I can’t remember, seven or eight o’clock,people are going, running back and forth, acting kind of crazy and [gasps], “Pearl
Harbour’s bombed!”. Pearl Harbour? I’d never even- some place like Palm Beach or
Pearl Harbour, and then, slowly by slowly, more people- they were talking inJapanese, I don’t know “bakutan”, I wasn’t sure what “bakutan” was, but it was“bomb”. And then by night time, [gasps], “Oh my god, they took so-and-so away, they
took so-and-so away, they took all the community leaders,” but everything is likerumours, rumours, rumours; and then, I think by that night, the next day, no school
Monday, then the curfew, and then, if you’re a Japanese, you can’t go out, and it wasutter confusion. And then, they confiscate our wages and this and that, everything
was rumour, rumour, rumour.
PW: What happened to your Dad?
SK: My Dad, he was okay for a while. But then, the following year, he had to go to acamp. At that time, the isseis are in their forties and fifties, and most of us were
teenagers. So, the parents are young, so the men over eighteen, every single manover eighteen, they all went to different camps in the interior of B.C.
PW: How did you feel when it happened?
SK: Well, I was so confused, IPW: You were how old, then?
SK: I was, uh, sixteen, seventeen. Pearl Harbour happened when I was sixteen. And
it’s very hard to communicate between Japanese and English, and rumours and…
PW: Yeah. Um, then, since you were living in Vancouver, you didn’t have to go to
Hastings Park?
SK: No, fortunately.
PW: So, then, but then you had to evacuate.
SK: Yeah. But then my cousins who live in Alert Bay, they were in Hastings Park,
under the worst conditions possible.
PW: Did you go and visit your cousins in Hastings Park?
SK: No, no. They told us not to go.
PW: Then you were evacuated to where?
SK: A place called Kaslo, B.C.
PW: And which members of the family?
SK: It’s only my mother and father, for the time being. And then, I’m the oldest, andmy younger brother and sister. Eighteen and over, if you’re a man, you have to go tocamp. So, the people there are women and children.
PW: So then your family moved to the “Kaslo Hotel”.
5SK: Yes.
PW: Describe that situation.
SK: It’s the south area of Kaslo, actually, Kaslo, I think, was the best evacuation
centre; it was an old mining town, and the people who lived there, they welcomed
us- well, even for financial reasons, they wanted to make money on the Japanese, butthey treated us very well. The Kaslo Hotel was a three-storey building, and I was on
the second floor. On one floor, there’s one stove, for twenty families. So you can justimagine, at mealtime, the mothers had to cook, and unless you watch your pot,
somebody’s going to put it out [chuckles]. But I stayed away from the kitchen, I left it
up to the isseis [first generation Japanese Canadian], the mothers. But, it was fun- I
mean, when you’re sixteen, seventeen, it was fun; we didn’t have to worry the way
our parents worried.
PW: And, as for food, where and how did they get the food?
SK: The food, because there was a grocery store, a meat store and a grocery store.
We didn’t have to worry about food. We got these, um, “food tickets”. Coupons.
PW: And, since they didn’t have ice boxes or refrigerators, they’d go shopping everyday?
SK: Almost every day, just across the road.
PW: And so, they cooked in a kind of common stove area, but then, did you eat inyour room?
SK: In our room. And the room was about nine feet by twelve feet, and for three
years, we ate, and slept, and we did everything in that room. And there’s a double
bunk bed, and the mattress was straw, and then, my mother and father sleep
downstairs, and my sister and me climb up the stairs, we did that for three years.
PW: And your brother wasn’t there, though?
SK: No. My brother, because he’s a boy, he had to live in a dormitory, and he justcame back for his meal. Because they didn’t want brothers and sisters, unless you’rea little young.
PW: Right. And so, the dining table where you sat, was in the room itself?
SK: Yeah.
PW: So it was very tight.
SK: Very tight [chuckles].
PW: Then, because you were - and your Dad, what did he do in Kaslo?
SK: He was a carpenter. He was in demand, because there was so much to be done,
they have to do this and fix this, build chairs and tables, he was in real demand. But,
then they sent him out to the interior of B.C. for the railway, I think. But then theybrought him back.
PW: And, um, you were seventeen years old, you were a graduate of high school,then I guess you were recruited to teach in the school system in there?

6SK: Yes, and Hide Hyodo at that time. I said, “I don’t want to teach," because I wasonly seventeen at the time, I’m too young, but she’s very, what’s the word,
persuasive. So, I started, and those three years were the most interesting, I’m glad I
taught school. I taught grade three, four, five, and six, as a combination. And, now,
when I see those kids- not kids [chuckles], they’re now 75, and they have all done sowell. And they’re still very good to me.
PW: And, you taught for how many years?
SK: Three years.
PW: And what did you do about supplies andSK: Supplies [were] mostly from the B.C. Security Commission; and then, when we
first taught, it was all volunteer, and then, before you know, after a couple ofmonths, we got a paycheck of $15 a month, I thought “Boy, that’s a lot of money!” So,
my mother saved it for me, and a little later, we got a raise and $30 a month! I
thought, “Wow, I’ve never heard of $30 a month!” And the third year, I got $45 amonth. So when we moved to Toronto, that money was the down payment on our
house, $5500. Unbelievable, isn’t it?
PW: How was the curriculum established? You know, what to teach and that.
SK: Well, it was all the B.C. Security Commission, they had a curriculum. I think they
had the same curriculum for every Ghost Town [internment camps].
PW: Did you go to the New Denver teacher’s conference?
SK: Yeah, I went in 1943 and 1944. I didn’t go in ’45, because I was on the way to
Toronto.
PW: Yeah, I believe they had three conferences.
SK: It was a wonderful time to learn and meet people.
PW: Then, you also were fairly active- there’s quite a bit of church activities, can you
tell us about some of the church activities?
SK: In Kaslo?
PW: In Kaslo?
SK: We were very, very fortunate, beautiful church- I think called St. Andrews
Church, and the church people, they couldn’t do enough for us, they were so kind,and I think the reason why we were so lucky is because Rick Shimizu’s family lived
in Kaslo, and if it wasn’t for that kind of connection, but anyway, they had
kindergarten, Sunday school- I taught Sunday school for a couple years- and the
young people, they were just so wonderful to the Japanese. I’ll never, ever forget
their kindness.
PW: You were seventeen, you’re kind of in the almost early adult, late teen years,
what kind of activities did you do?
SK: Oh, I’m telling you, I had a few boyfriends, and we used to have dances, oh, boynot the kind of dance, where, well, not cheek-to-cheek, either- we had lovely dances,almost every Saturday. A lot of the parents, they were very what you call it, not7narrow-minded, strict, “I’m not going to let my daughter go dancing”. But then, mymother, “You’re a teacher, you’ve got to be very careful, your reputation’s at stake.”
But I guess I behaved, [be]cause she let me go [chuckles].
PW: And, you also got mail, to some degree, right?
SK: Hardly any. Because, when I did get mail, it was censored, it’s all black or cut out.
And then, of course, in that time, I think postage was about four cents, I hardly got
any mail. But we didn’t know where everybody went in our neighbourhood- youknow how, I found out later on, in “The New Canadian”, so-and-so went to [gasps]“Oh, is that where they went?” We lost contact with everybody.
PW: Now, “The New Canadian” newspaper was in Kaslo, tell us about what they
were doing there.
SK: It so happened, “The New Canadian” office was in between Kaslo town - and I
couldn’t miss it, I passed it every day, back and forth. And they were wonderful, I got
to know Tom Shoyama, and Noji Mata, because I went to school with Noji, and I
knew Junjin, and they really worked hard under hard circumstances.
PW: And what did you think of Tom Shoyama, you knew him quite well?
SK: Yeah, I thought he was great; as a matter of fact, my husband’s sister got marriedon December 7th, 1943- He, Tom Shoyama, was the best man, and I still have thewedding picture. He was a nice guy.
PW: So, in 1945, in the spring, the family decided to move out east. How was thatexperience, travelling across Canada?
SK: Oh, it was really awful, because, the war was still on, and my sister and I were
not very keen about travelling, and the train was full of soldiers, all smoking, and I
couldn’t stand it and spent most of the time in the washroom, bringing up, andfinally my father said, “Can you please stop smoking, because my daughters are so
sick,” so they stopped. But, it was terrible [chuckles]. I think it was four nights andthree days, I can’t remember, we sat up.
PW: Was it the old wooden train seats?
SK: It was hard as can be. I think we had baloney sandwiches, I can’t remember.
PW: And then you came to Toronto?
SK: Yep.
PW: And did anybody meet you there?
SK: Yeah, I had a few relatives. And we were supposed to go to a place called
Summerville, it was like a hostel. And when we got there, they said, “The place
you’re supposed to go, something happened, so you’ve got to Chatham.” So, we
ended up in Chatham.
PW: So, you took the train again from Toronto to Chatham? Now, that train has got
nice upholstery [chuckles].
SK: But, of course this is 1945, and Chatham was okay, we had a nice bungalow, but
to get a job was another thing.
8

PW: Who did your Dad work for?
SK: He worked for Mr. Reid).
PW And what did he do there?
SK: He was a millwright there. But he was allergic to all the seed, so after a while, we
decided to come to Toronto, because my cousins, the Kawaguchi’s, they lived in
Toronto, we stayed with them for a while.
PW: And were there many Japanese families in Chatham at the time you people were
there?
SK: No, not too many- the Takahashis, the Moritas, and the Todas, and a few Fujis,
but not too many.
PW: What other activities did you do in Chatham?
SK: In Chatham? They had a United Church, and we had a bowling club. We used to
get together once in a while.
PW: Did you mix with the hakujin people very much?
SK: Not too much, when you’re working five and a half days, but our neighbours
were very kind to us.
PW: Tell me about your experience at the laundry.
SK: I’ll never live through that again. I think I got up around five thirty- 6 o’clock inthe morning, and the neighbour, the owner of the Laundromat, picked me up, andwe worked from seven o’clock in the morning until twelve, one hour for lunch, comeback from one until six. And then, on Saturday, again, just the morning. And I earned
35 cents an hour. And it was awful. Men’s shirts, we had to do one shirt a minute.
The shirts would be soaking wet, one would do the collars and the next person did
the sleeves and the yoke, and the next person did the back, one person did thefolding, but anyway, at the end of one night, you’d see sixty shirts hanging.
[End of Part 3][Start Part 4] [27:28]
PW: So, in 1946, your family decided to move to Toronto, what was the reason formoving to Toronto?
SK: Well, we had a hard time getting into Toronto, they said “You have to”- I don’tknow what happened, Mr. Truman or - I think Eiji Yatabe was working there too, Oh,
I got a job, the man’s job, he went to Mr. Truman and said, “I am a very qualified seed
analyst and secretary, they need me very badly,” that’s how I got it.
PW: And your whole family moved to Toronto? And then what did your father doduring that time?
SK: He got, because he was a carpenter, he got a job with the [Yolese?] Furniture
Company, at Yonge and Bloor, somewhere. And he worked there for years and years,
they just loved him, even doing furniture.
9

PW: And how long were you at that, us as a seed analyst
SK: About 5 years, cause I did some secretary work.
PW: Now, in 1947, you met a nice, handsome young man [Sam Kai, Sue’s husband],tell us about that.
SK: He chased after me! [Chuckles].
PW: So that’s when you started going out with Sam Kai?
SK: Yes.
PW: And when were you married?
SK: Right away! No [chuckles]- a half a year, we got engaged, half a year later, I got
married. And people that I was pregnant, but I wasn’t [laughs, waves hand] justkidding.
PW: So, tell us about your wedding day.
SK: It was a beautiful, it was a cold day, April 3rd, 1948, and, can you imagine, right at
Dundas and Spadina, Church of All Nations, not one guest had a car, so they came by
TTC. And there were two weddings that day, Matt Matsui, who owned the bicycle
shop, I think he got married maybe at one o’clock, and I got married at three o’ clock.
We had the same organist, Mary Nishikawa. [chuckles]
PW: And then you had your reception at - ?
SK: Lychee Garden.
PW: So everybody used to have receptions at Chinese restaurants.
SK: Yeah, [Kwan Cha?]. I think Kwan Cha was two dollars. The other one, I think
Lychee Gardens, they wanted two and a quarter, but I [redacted].
PW: And then you went on your honeymoon?
SK: Yeah, to Niagara Falls, seven people in the car, what do you call them, you drive,
PW: Rental Cars.
SK: and they dropped us off at Brock Hotel [chuckles].
PW: Then other Japanese Canadians were coming into Toronto at that time.
SK: [Nods] Of course, quite a bit coming in.
PW: And were you involved with the church? Because church seems to have been a
big part of your life.
SK: Yeah. Well, not right away. For a while Reverend Shimizu said, “Go to yourneighbourhood church." But that doesn’t work. Because, Japanese, they want tostick together. I forgot the exact year, 19 whatever, when the church wasestablished, Sam [Kai, Sue’s husband] and I were, what you call, we were there at thevery beginning. And my son, Brian, born in ’53, I think he’s gone to church almost
every Sunday for forever [chuckles]!
PW: And what about some of the…did you meet with a lot of the Japanese Canadianfamilies and friends in Toronto, while you were working?
SK: Yeah.
PW: Tell us something about your working experience.
10

SK: I worked for one company, it’s called the Facelle Dominion Company [now partof Royale, called Dominion Cellulose], it’s quite a large company, I don’t know how
many employees there were, 300, 400 on Weston Road, near Lawrence, thecompany that made bathroom tissue, facial tissue, diapers, and during that time, I
was the only girl, Japanese girl in the office, but there was one man, Tom Maikawa
was an engineer, he worked there, we both worked for them; he worked thirteen
years, and I worked for twenty-five, until I retired. It was a good company, very goodcompany.
PW: So you enjoyed working there?
SK: I enjoyed it, I started as an executive secretary, and I kind of worked myself up
to management, so, I did very well.
PW: So, I heard you were getting paid more than some of the male peopleSK: Oh, yeah. 1960, the males, they were making $48 a week, and I started at $75,
which was a lot of money in those days. And I can start going, “Guess what I’m
making?” And three months later, they raised my paycheck, $82.50, and when it
went up to that, I just couldn’t believe the money I was making [chuckles].
PW: And tell me some of your activities, like going camping and some of therecreational things that you did.
SK: We had a lot of friends. We used to go camping with the Saishos, anybody with a
lot of boys, we seemed to have friends with boys, we had a lot of fun going camping.
And then, of course, as the kids got older, we used to go to Hawaii quite a bit, Europe
and Japan, and Cape Cod, we’ve been back and forth across Canada, from Atlantic
Ocean to Pacific, about three times, because my daughter-in-law comes from, wasborn in Newfoundland.
PW: Then Sam got ill…tell us a bit about your experience during that period.
SK: He was ill, he was in and out of hospital I don’t know how many times. He had
mastoids, he had ulcers, he had something on his bladder, he had an aneurysm, if I
didn’t drive I don’t know what I would have done, it seemed I was going toemergency I don’t know how many times. And then, in 2002, he was in the nursing
home for nine months, and he finally died of pneumonia.
PW: But you had both retired in your early sixties, so you travelled, and did a lot
together.
SK: Yeah. And I think retirement was the best time; you do what you want to do, andthat’s when we started to volunteer. My husband and I, we volunteered at the
Humber Memorial Hospital, and I volunteered at school, where my children went
years ago, I volunteered for the Cancer Society, I did a lot of volunteering.
PW: Did you get involved with the Japanese Canadian Cultural Centre?
SK: Not too much, I guess because of the distance, we lived way out in the west end,and I didn’t like driving on the 401 and Don Valley, but I did go to Wynford Seniors, I
did that for about ten years, in the 1990’s
11PW: And you were very active in the United Church, too.
SK: Quite active.
PW: What were some of the activities that you did?
SK: I was the editor for ten years, I was involved in United Church Women. We had a
lot of neighbours, close neighbours; we lived with the same neighbours for about 45
years. So I’m still in touch will all my neighbours.
PW: And then, in terms of the Redress Movement, tell me how you felt about theredress movement.
SK: Well, in principle, I think it’s a wonderful idea, and I’m glad that some of themoney went to the Redress Foundation, and I think a lot of people donated themoney, or it helped their family. And, um, in principle I think it’s really good,
because now I think of the whole evacuation as maybe a blessing in disguise, and I
think it’s good for the children, that it’s been finalized. [waves hand] That’s not theright word.
PW: Were you for it, because, in Toronto, there was, you know, various factions andopinions about redress; what were your feelings and Sam’s?
SK: I thought, if it weren’t for the young, the sansei, I don’t think we would have got
it, and people say, “What do they know about it?” But because if it wasn’t for thesansei, we wouldn’t have got the redress, I don’t think.
PW: But you were for what they finally agreed to, because there were various
options of trying to settle that thing.
SK: It wasn’t very easy, especially after forty years. And it’s very unfortunate that theisseis who deserve it, they were gone. And, well, I’m glad we got it, but I think a lot of
us have donated the money.
PW: How is your feeling about your Mom and Dad? Because I think they played afairly large influence on your life.
SK: Well, I think they had a tough time. But I think they did a good job raising theniseis, and I think the niseis have done a good job raising the sanseis, and thesanseis, from what I hear, they’re all very good Canadians. And there’s 90%
intermarriage.
PW: what do you feel about the future of – [interruption][End of part 4][Start part 5]
PW: So, you got sick, after Sam died. And that was a pretty tough period for you,right? Tell us about that period.
SK: Two years ago, After Sam died, well, I wanted to be independent. I drove, I went
everywhere, and I stayed friends with everybody, and I did the volunteer work, andI think I took oil painting, line dancing, but then, unfortunately, two years later, I had
12breast cancer. And the breast cancer itself wasn’t too bad, it was the chemotherapy,
and then the oncologist said, “I’ve never seen anybody with so much problems withchemo." And I was getting injections, I was in and out of the hospital, getting bloodtransfusions, and then they finally said, I was supposed to be scheduled for 12
series, 12 chemo therapies, but they said, “She just can’t take it anymore." So westopped at eight [chemotherapy], and then I was really sick, but some, after I cameto Yee Hong, like a miracle, I got better. It’s just unbelievable. But, after I came here, I
was still having a few problems, I got blood clots, they had to rush me to thehospital, I got skin rashes, I had panic attacks, but, slowly by slowly, the people herethe chaplain was very good to me, and the whole staff, they were so kind andunderstanding, that I got better. I can’t believe it myself. And then, five years, I justgot a phone call not too long ago, “I can’t believe that you’re so well, five years ago
you were so sick.” I had people from the church come every day to make me supper,
I had people like Ruby Shikaze, Grace Omoto, can you imagine, all these people came
every day to look after me. Especially my sister-in-law, Mimi Kai, she was there
every morning from eight o’clock until the evening, to make sure I was well. But, I’m
better! I’m a breast cancer survivor.
PW: Yeah, it’s amazing that you were so sick, and yet, looking at you today, you
would never know that you had that terrible experience.
SK: And then, it was in 2004, in March, and in November, Brian and I, we went to thefamily doctor for our flu shot, and the doctor said, “How come you’re taking so many
pills, you’re taking morphine?” So, anyway, he was just absolutely shocked. And thenhe called someone and said, “How can a woman so vibrant get so sick? I don’t thinkshe should be taking all this morphine.” Then, gradually, I got better. But, for one
year, I suffered, I’ll never, ever get chemotherapy again. But, fortunately, I’m all well.
PW: So, is it in remission actually, now?
SK: It’s in remission. And then, this year, in May I went to the oncologist, and theoncologist said, “Sue, I don’t want to see you again, because you’ve been cancer-free
for five years, and you’re the most remarkable person,” so, I’m okay now.
PW: What do you think about the future of the Nikkei population, the Japanese
Canadian population?
SK: Well, I’m kind of concerned, because even at our church, the average age of thecongregation, I’d say between 75 to 85 [years old], some of them are ninety, so canyou imagine in ten years’ time, a lot of us won’t be here, and there’s hardly any
young people, except for a handful, who could take over. Even Yee Hong, the mostresidents you have are nisei, so, in a couple years’ time, maybe, I don’t know, maybe
the sanseis will be coming here [chuckles]. Or the young niseis.
PW: So you see the same problem at church, because it’s, well the [Japanese
Canadian Cultural] Centre, too, I suppose.

13

SK: Same thing, I can remember in the 1960s when we moved to Coral Gable Drive,
somebody from the Centre came and asked for a donation- at that time we were
having a struggle meeting the mortgage payment. They’re doing well right now, as
you know, the volunteers are mostly nisei; once the niseis go, I don’t think the sansei
will be able to carry on. Unless the, what do you call the people from Japan?
PW: The ijusha.
SK Yeah, the ijusha take over. It’s not just a Japanese problem, everybody, every
school, church, any organization.
PW: Yeah, I think it’s important to get the younger generation involved but there arestill some signs that some of the younger ones are starting to take interest. Because,
at a certain time, you’re busy with your life and your career, but then at a certain
point in time, you kind of get to where you’re trying to think about what you want to
do with the later years. And some of them are starting to think about the heritage,
their parents, their grandparents, and what they did and trying to get their stories.
And that’s why, you know, we need to capture the stories now, while we’re still
alive, because I think that Japanese Canadians went through- especially the niseiswent through a very traumatic period- isseis, even more difficult, but, I mean, thestories are, there aren’t that many isseis left, so, niseis are still here and some ofthem are still vibrant and have got terrific memory, such as you, so, we’ve got tocapture stories.
SK: Well I’m glad that Peter’s here today, I think we need more people like Peter,
because in ten years’ time, the stories will all be forgotten, and it’s got to be, well as
you say, in the computers or written. So, we need more Peter Wakayamas[chuckles]. And he’s only in his seventies, that’s young. He’s still in diapers, I think.
PW: One last question, having you read your life story in that very detailed book thatyou keep, what made you do that? Because, I’ve never seen a book so detailed interms of dates, names, all that. Is that your nature, is that because of your training,or what?
SK: It’s my nature, I’m what you call- not “nosy”, but “curious”. I like to know what’s
going on.
PW: And how do you keep that record like that? I mean, just reading your book, it’s
so amazing. You have all these people, and the dates, and what you did, I mean SK: Well, I guess I really wrote it for my two sons, and for my five grandchildren. I’ve
got two grandsons and three granddaughters, and I thought for their sake, I wantthem to know what Bachan went through.
PW: Do you think they would publish a book, about your story? Because nowadays
they can do that.
SK: They might, my one granddaughter, she’s 21 now, she’ll be graduating from
McMaster in April, in nursing, and one time she went to high school, and made aspeech, “This is what my Bachan went through.” So, every now and then, and they’re14

aware of racism, and then my daughter-in-law and my son, they both shaved theirheads to fight for AIDS, and they’re very aware of racism. So maybe, one of themmight write a book, I’m not quite sure. But they’re very interested in the evacuation.
PW: Okay, well, thank you very much, Sue, it’s been a great pleasure to talk with you.
SK: Well, thank you very much. If I knew I was going to be, I would have worn apretty blouse. [waves hand] Just kidding.
[End of interview]

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