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扉裏版下:扉裏版下 09/07/27 11:47 ページ 1

Produced by the WPI-AIMR Communication OfficeDirector: Yoshinori Yamamoto
Editor-in-chief: Toshio Sakurai
Associate Editor, writer: Hiroshi Komatsu
Associate Editor: Tomihiro Hashizume
Associate Editor: Kaori Sato
We welcome your comments, questions and involvement.
e-mail to: wpi-office@bureau.tohoku.ac.jp, or
sakurai@imr.tohoku.ac.jp

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22

Prof. Venkatesh Narayanamurti(Transcript)

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Prof. Venkatesh Narayanamurti: Good afternoon President Inoue, Prof. Sakurai,
distinguished members of the faculty and researchers. I am deeply honored to be here
today and I am very touched by all this gracious hospitality, and above all that I am now
really a citizen of this university. I thought that was the right time to wear theuniversity tie.
Prof. Sakurai: Yes.
Prof. Narayanamurti: So, I am reallyhonored and very touched about what you
said for my introduction. Thank you very,
Frontiers in EngineeringSvery much. As you will hear, I have
Education and Research inchanged the title a little bit as “Frontiers in
the 21st Century
V. Narayanamurti
Engineering Education and Research inHarvard School of Engineering and Applied Sciences
V. Narayanamurti
the 21st Century.” When I use the word
Harvard School of Engineering and Applied
Sciences
engineering, I think of engineering very
Tohoku University
Sendai, JapanMay 22, 2009broadly; it is applied science. In fact
there is very little difference between applied science and engineering. That is thebasic message of this talk. So, engineering is a short word for applied science and allof the features that go with it.
So, I would like to discuss about the frontiers. Later this afternoon you will be at the
opening of the WPI Integration Laboratory and I think one of the real things of scienceis it is always global and international, where we do not have any boundaries. But I
think that what has happened with communications technology today, with information
technology, pace of change has accelerated greatly. Professor Inoue became presidentof Tohoku University and, I think, articulated a tremendous vision of international
relationship for Tohoku University. We will come back to that later this afternoon.
But I thought it might be good to see what we have been doing at Harvard in this area
and why Harvard created the engineering school,
I want to address three questions …
because I came from the Bell Labs where in fact䕕 What does it mean to be a leading
there was no difference between science andand societally-relevant university in an
increasingly technological world?
engineering.
䕕 What does it mean to be a broadly
educated person in the 21st century?

So, what I want to address today are threequestions. This relates to, I think, even Prof.

䕕 What does it mean to be a broadly
educated scientist or engineer?
2

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Inoue’s vision for Tohoku University. What does it mean to be a leading andsocietally-relevant university in an increasingly technological world? What does itmean to be a broadly educated person in the 21st century? And what does it mean to
be a broadly educated scientist or engineer?
Harvard prided itself with the old British tradition of liberal art education, and I
actually convinced President Lawrence Summers (27th President of Harvard,
2001-2006) that liberal art education is a good concept that needs to evolve with thetimes and needs to move into the 21st century and that is one reason we created the
School of Engineering (School of Engineering and Applied Science).
So, that is the basic message where in fact you think of research and technology as
greatly impacting society and vice versa. We need to understand those complex
relationships and train both non-scientists and scientists for this modern world.
So, that is all of the essence of my talk.
Two Major Themes
There are two major themes. Think ofengineering education as a liberal art.
• Engineering Education as a “Liberal Art”
• The unique role of Engineering as a linking
What does liberal arts education actuallydisciplinemean? And then the unique role of– to the world of science– and to the world of Technology and Society
engineering as a linking discipline to the3world of science and to the world oftechnology and society.
You see too often, we have thought of engineering as simply rooted in physics andmathematics, and that is partly true. But engineering itself as a discipline, as a linking
discipline, has much to contribute. I was telling people at lunch today, if you look at
biology, biology is much more similar to engineering than actually physics ormathematics. Physics is basically a reductionist science. A lot of engineering is
integrated science, and biology is in fact very much an integrated science. I think wehave learned that biological networks are similar to networks for engineering and viceversa. In fact, we have at Harvard a new institute for biologically inspired
engineering.
Engineering as a discipline, I believe, achieved a totally new status as a natural
evolution from the 18th century, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. After all,the internet and communications technology are almost as revolutionary as the printingpress to read and write. Times have changed.

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So, let us go back a little bit
1950-1990
in the history of the role ofscience and technology. I
would say that in the UnitedStates, the big changes
happened after World War II.
Science and technologies
were very important in WorldWar II, as many of theadvances came from applied
physics such as microwave
4radar. There was, of course,
the G.I. Bill. There are big integrated U.S. companies like IBM, General Electric,
AT&T, with huge research laboratories. Simultaneously the build-up of United States
research universities occurred. The National Science Foundation (NSF) was created in
1950, so it is now 60 years old. Until then there was not much funding. For example,
Cornell’s physics department where I studied was funded like the humanities
department now. It was only in the last 60 years that things changed.
So, in fact the United Statesmodel for science andtechnology was a concept offederal funding for researchand development. Graduate
education grew enormously inthis period due to federal
funding. I always thought as
an undergraduate, the system
which was very much basedon the British system in India
5
which was very good, but theUnited States system at the graduate level really excelled in that open way and the way
research was done between the graduate students and the professors.
So, I think there is a very special model there which could be discussed: technology
transfer to commercial enterprises, build-up of US industrial laboratories and concept of

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government-industry-university interactions. All of these evolved over the last 40 or
50 years.
What has happened in the last 10 or 20
years? The Cold War ended in 1989 and there
was a big change which happened, becausemuch of physics and engineering, especially in
the United States, was defense-related.
“Defense Research” was very important; that is
why the government established the National
Science Foundation modeled after agencies likethe Office of Naval Research (ONR).

Changing Scene
1990-present• End of Cold War• IT Revolution• Global Knowledge Economy• Decline of Industrial Laboratories• Translational Research• Impacting Society• 9/11• Energy Crisis once more
• …

6

The IT revolution had really come. The worldwide web had completely changed
how we do business. We became a global knowledge economy. A country of mybirth, namely India, suddenly came from poverty and now if we are talking about it, we
think of India as an economic superpower. It happened so fast that one cannot evenimagine, you know, that something different could happen.
Then the tremendous decline, the global competition and changes of the rules of thegame for the large monolithic caused a decline of the industrial laboratories. IBM
almost went bankrupt; luckily it came back alive, but the idea of an industrial researchlab was in the decline. AT&T was broken up and Bell Laboratories ended up indemise over the last few years. The translational research showing… you see, when
you were dominated by defense funding, your expensive research could be very easily
justified and cost was no object, but when you go to the modern world, the role oftranslational research and impact on society became increasingly more important, as we
think of problems like sustainability and the environment, etc.
In the United States, when 9/11 occurred, there was a big change for us. Big change;
it was like a new kind of Cold War, a different kind of Cold War, and then of course
there is the energy crisis once more……, we can go on. So, we must prepare ourstudents and our universities for the future, which might not be the same as the past.
So, if you come to 2009—and once, I am again really proud to be an American citizen
with President Obama when he gave his address to the nation at his inauguration as
President;

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“We will build the roads
2009
and bridges, the electric grids “We will build the roads andbridges, the electric grids andand digital lines that feed our digital lines that feed our commerceand bind us together. We willcommerce and bind us restore science to its rightfulplace and wield technology’s
together.
We will restore wonders to raise health care’s
and lower its cost. We willscience to its rightful place quality
harness the sun and the winds andsoil to fuel our cars and run our
and
wield
technology’s thefactories. And we will transform ourand colleges andwonders to raise healthcare’s schools
universities to meet the demands ofage. All this we can do. All
quality and lower its cost. athisnew
we will do.”-President Barack Obama
We will harness the sun and
Inaugural Address, January 20, 20097
the winds and soil to fuel ourcars and run our factories, and we will transform our schools and colleges anduniversities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. All this we willdo.”
It was very heartwarming for me to listen to this kind of Inaugural Address and toanother address, that the United States president gave to the U.S. Academy of Science a
couple of weeks ago. US President coming to Academy of Science, this is good for us.
The last time it happened was when President Kennedy was in charge, some 40 years
ago, and I came as a graduate student then and the United States had a golden age with
the Sputnik event and NASA mission to the moon after Sputnik.
So, our hope is that once more we will have another golden age for science andengineering in the United States, a very important time. Obviously the United Stateswith its special status will be intimately connected with many of the global powers, with
the G8 nations of which Japan is a part as well as Germany and Europe, and now
increasingly the G20, which includes countries such as Brazil, Russia, India and China.
So, I want to go back a little bit in history. For me, many universities are great; I
was very fortunate to work with great places like the University of California, arguably
the best public university in the world and Harvard University, arguably the best private
university, at least in America. But for me Bell Labs was a special mecca. Bell Labs
was absolutely number one in my life. One has to ask the question why. I will comeback to it. So, a history of Bell Labs. When the 50th anniversary of the transistor
occurred, which was in 1997, historians, Michael Riordan of Stanford University and
Lillian Hoddeson of the University of Illinois, wrote a book “Crystal Fire, the Birth of
the Information Age.” It was really the story of Bell Labs in one form.

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For all the graduate students in this room, especiallymaterial science, I urge you to read this book because it tells
you how materials science should be done. It really brings
the experimentalists and the theorists together. It brings thephysicists, the chemists and the electrical engineers together,and there is no boundary between electrical engineering andscience. They are together mixed in this melting pot,
managed in a very special way. That was also true for manyof the other industrial laboratories, of course.
8

So, we have come to this a little more. Why did Bell Labs do this? As all of you
can remember in your history, Tohoku University has a great history; it had its 100th
anniversary 2 years ago. The history of Bell Labs is in many ways the history ofindustrial research in science. It owes its origins to Alexander Graham Bell who
founded it was actually a visionary. Back in 1876 when he discovered the telephone,
he tried to convert speech into electric signals, and in those days to convert sound into
electricity was unheard of.
He actually even thought offiber-optic
communication.
It turned out they wanted tobuildasystemtocommunicate between San
Francisco and New York andyou know the signals would
go weak with distance, so you
have to have repeaters andamplifiers.
According to Riordan and
Hoddeson:“The true test came with the
installationofthetranscontinental
line
stretching from coast to coast,
AT&T’s goal for years. In

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July 1914, Vail was thefirst to speak over this
line
which
had
repeaters in Pittsburgh,
Omaha, and Salt Lake
City. On 25 January
1915,
dignitaries
celebrated this great
achievement during the
opening ceremonies of
the Panama-Pacific. It
appealstotheimagination to speak
across the continent,
President
Woodrow
Wilson told California
10
listeners from the WhiteHouse. From New York, Alexander Graham Bell repeated his famous command.
“Mr. Watson, come here, I want you.” Sitting in San Francisco, Watson bellowed back,and it is the same Watson of “IBM,” bellowed back, “It will take me five days to getthere now.””
And of course 50 years later, when I got my Ph.D. from Cornell you can of course
telephone across the ocean, and the day when my mother died about five years ago, thetelephone worked instantly and effortlessly. It completely changed human life. The
reason it changed human life is because in fact science and engineering came together in
new ways. The AT&T realized unqualified success in developing repeaters for thetranscontinental line. It was clear that the Ph.D. physicists who did industrial researchwere also good business, and in the Great War the company continued hiring physicists,
Davisson (1937 Physics Nobel Laureate, the first ever awarded to a scientist inindustrial Labs) among them, to work on topics such as adapting the vacuum tube andrelated circuitry for communication. Using improved, high power vacuum tubes inlate 1915, AT&T transmitted the first transoceanic telephone in Arlington, Virginia, andthe Eiffel Tower in Paris, putting the company on a major step to Vail’s ambitious plan
to unite the world. If you think of human beings, communication, we are able tocommunicate in special ways. It is a fundamental human calling.

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So, these were men of vision who said this is very good thing to do, to build
amplifiers and hire physicists, and that tradition was set in motion which kept going
because in fact it showed value to the customers as well.
So that is the origin of the place. So, what has
Changing Scene
happened today… you can really think of thechanging scene. Reductionist science is about • “reductionist” vs “integrationist”
looking at something deeper and deeper. I come • “discipline” vs “interdisciplinary”• “Einstein” vs “Edison”
from nano-science; it is in fact that kind of science.
• “Columbus” vs “Galileo”
Or integrationist, which is really a strength ofengineering because in fact you want to think ofeverything holistically as a system. Prof. Inoue, the great presidents of the university
have to think of it holistically as a university.
11

There is always that dichotomy between what is disciplinary and what isinterdisciplinary. Discipline is usually something where the knowledge is wellunderstood. Interdisciplinary necessarily is the intersection of those disciplines wherein fact new knowledge is to be made.
We can always argue about what is important. I convinced President Summers thatthe world was not only about Einstein but also Edison. When somebody invents thelight bulb and the telephone, then which is more important? Is it Einstein or is it
Edison? Both are equally important and these people can change the world. Harvard
needs the future explorer, the inventor, the discoverer, not just the theorist. In fact,
when I read Prof. Inoue’s charter for the university, he thought about practical researchand it is actually a good way of describing it, and that is very important to keep that inmind—that the theorists are not better than the experimentalists and vice versa. So it
is “not actually about Einstein versus Edison, it is both Einstein and Edison or Edisonand Einstein.”
In another way, we can do science in many ways. You come to the Bell Labs
Materials Research Laboratory and the most important thing which happened there wasyou always were developing new instruments. There might be electron microscopes, it
might be a scanning probe microscope because the new tools of discovery come fromapplied physics, from engineering and related disciplines. In fact, Galileo becamefamous not just because he said “the Earth is not the center of the universe.” He

31

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invented the first telescope in 1609 (2009 is the 400th anniversary World Astronomyyear) and he looked at the stars and he discovered, by this telescope, the moons ofJupiter. So, when you develop new tools, you end up with new science. In fact,
progress is always when the great instruments are developed. That is why applied
physics is so important, it is why Bell Labs succeeded and why the materials people areso important.
Columbus had a different kind of approach. “We build the biggest ship and then we
will sail the oceans and we will discover India,” he thought, but he actually discovered
America. And so the point is that you can do science in different ways and you will
never know what you will discover. You might discover the moons of Jupiter or you
might discover America. That is what you do if you are an explorer. So, you should
never forget that. This is why we created an engineering school in Harvard. I have tocommend Lawrence Summers. I can tell you that he could be decisive and visionary.
So, I thought it would be good to examine the list of Nobel Prizes in Physics over thelast 15 or 20 years. I chaired the National Research Council panel on the future ofcondensed matter physics about 10 years ago. This year I was the reviewer for thepanel. The number of Nobel Prizes which came from solid state physics or condensed
matter physics is huge and you have to ask if the string theorists and the high energy
TABLE O.1 Nobel Prizes Awarded for Research Related to Condensed-matter andMaterials Physics since 1986
Year

Field

Citation

Laureates

1986

Physics

For design of the first electron microscope(Ruska) and the scanning-tunnelingMicroscope (Binning and Rohrer)

Ernst Ruska, Gerd Binning, and HeinrichRohrer1987

Physics

For discovery of superconductivity inceramic materials

Johannes Georg Bednorz and Karl A. Müller

1991

Physics

For discovery of methods for studying
order phenomena in complex forms ofmatter, particularly liquid crystals andpolymers

Pierre-Gilles de Gennes

1994

Physics

For development of neutron-scattering
techniques for studies of condensed matter

Clifford G. Shull and Bertram N. Brockhouse

1996

Chemistry

For the discovery of fullerenes

Harold Kroto, Robert Curl Jr., and Richard E.
Smalley

1996

Physics

For the discovery of superfluidity inhelium-3

David M. Lee, Douglas D. Osheroff, andRobert C. Richardson

1997

Physics

For development of methods to cool andtrap atoms with laser light

Steven Chu, Claude Cohen-Tannoudji, andWilliam D. Phillips

1998

Chemistry

For development of the destiny-functional
theory (Kohn) and computational methods
in quantum chemistry (People)

Walter Kohn and John A. Pople

1998

Physics

For discovery of a new form of quantum
fluid with fractionally charged excitations

Robert B. Laughlin, Horst L. Störmer, andDaniel C. Tsui

2000

Physics

For bandgap engineering, Si Ic’s

Zh. I. Alferov, H. Kroemer and J. Kilby

2000

Chemistry

For conducting Polymers

A. Heeger, A. McDiarmid, Hideki Shirakawa

2003

Physics

Superconductivity (superfluidity)

Abrikosov, Ginzburg and Legett1232023-056.indd 10

09.7.28 6:43:05 PMphysicists tell you that is not physics, you have then to ask where Nobel prizes arecoming from.
If you look at this list, it includes Walter Kohn who won the prize in Chemistry withJohn Pople. Walter Kohn was solid state physicist and discovered pseudo potentials,
but he got the Nobel Prize in chemistry because the physicists did not quite regard him
the right way. Very important, also to remember that the Nobel Prize in 2003 went toHerbert Kroemer at Santa Barbara, professor of electrical engineering not physics.
Most of my colleagues in Santa Barbara did not know who Herbert Kroemer was, but I
had told the UCSB Chancellor Henry Yang in 1992 that Herbert Kroemer had a goodchance to win the Nobel Prize.
In 2003 when he got Nobel Prize, I was in Harvard and many of Santa Barbara
professors called me: “Venky, you should be here.” One of them was really unhappy,
he says “You left us and went to Harvard; UCSB 2, Harvard 0” he said because Allen
Heeger was Professor of Materials and Herbert Kroemer Professor of ElectricalEngineering, at UCSB.
Nobel Prizes are coming from materials science to electrical engineering, not fromour physics departments—not from the Harvard physics department but from Bell
Laboratories, to IBM, etc and then it was no longer a fluke. It is the environment
which creates it. So if somebody separates basic research and applied research, tellthem that is not the right way, that it is one unite system.
So, you look at allof these examples.
It turns out that thisis not a fluke, that
there has to besomething about theculture of thoseinstitutions and theway they ran, which
produced it.
I thought I would
list this for you since
you want to see theSome new inorganic materials of the past fifteen years
Advance

DriverNature of AdvanceNew compounds/materials
High temperature superconductors
Science
Revolutionary
Organic superconductors
Science
Revolutionary
Rare earth optical amplifierlTechnology
Evolutionary
High field magnets
Technology
Evolutionary
Organic electronic materials
Technology
Evolutionary
Magnetoptical recording materials Technology
Evolutionary
Bulk Amorphus metals
Technology
Evolutionary
Technology
Evolutionary
New Structure of known materials
Quasicrystals
Buckyballs and related structures Science
Revolutionary
Nanoclusters
Science
Revolutionary
Metallic hydrogen
Science
Evolutionary
Bose-Einstein condensates
Science
Evolutionary
Giant magnoresistance materials
Science
Evolutionary
Porous siliconTechnology
Revolutionary
Diamond films
Technology
Evolutionary
Quantum dots
Technology
Evolutionary
Foams/gels
Technology
Evolutionary
Technology
Evolutionary
New properties of known materials
Gallium nitride
Technology
Revolutionary
13
Sillicon germanium
Technology
Evolutionary

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frontiers. So, it is a list of new inorganic materials for the past 15 years, many of themcame from industrial laboratories, some right here in this place. We have got here theworld leaders in metallic glasses. We have got some wonderful work going on inoxides in many places. An enormous number of things happened. This happened at
IBM, something happened here, at universities, etc., an enormous number of materials.
Gallium nitride is a wonderful example of a new semiconductor… which is so messy
and so dirty, completely different from silicon and germanium, but very important.
Actually done at the industrial laboratory the Nichia Labs in Japan, and Shuji Nakamura
was the pioneer who defied all the conventional logic. Sometimes you have to beunconventional and defy the conventional.

14

So, the era of change which happened was in fact this integral relationship between
the scientific foundations and technology. The arrow is both ways, sometimes it is thisway, sometimes it is that way. MBE (molecular beam epitaxy) is one of the best
examples, it started with basic surface physics and then it became very applications
oriented and with improved materials new basic phenomena such as fractional quantum
Hall Effect (FQHE) were discovered and the cycle goes on. It is a very delicate
ecosystem.
You will see many wonderful things from telephone to giant
magnetoresistance, semiconductor diode laser, etc and computers, communication,national security, energy, transportation, entertainment, medicine, and very broad
aspects of society.

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So, if somebody tells you that you do not want to know what the issues of society are,then you will not be really doing great science. I find it exciting that there is the really
important energy problem and you are solving that problem. That is what it used to bein the telephone company. We were simply not making the next repeater but we knew
this technology will be important 20 years down the road. We need to be connected
and know how we relate to society and the technology at large. So, that is sort of themessage from this.
About six months ago, Professor Millie Dresselhaus(MIT) chaired the next National Academy Condensed
Matter and Materials Physics Study, the science of theworld around us, “Physics 2010.” For all National
Research Council studies, there has to be one final
reviewer, who has to certify that this work is done welland that the external reviewer comments have beensatisfied. This year it happens to be me.
know the detail of the study.

15

So I
Emerging Frontiers

So the emerging frontiers as we said, of course,
are information, nano, and biotechnology.
16

Some history of nano science since Prof.
Sakurai wanted me to say something about it; growth of quantum confined structures,quantum dots, self-assemblySome important Milestones in theand vapor phase chemistry.
History of Nanoscience
Discovery of carbon-60 and¾ Growth of quantum confined structures
growth of carbon nano tubes,(quantum dots) via self-assembly and frommuch of some very nice work
vapor phase chemistry¾ Discovery of C-60 and growth of Carbon
happened in Japan.
Nanonanotubes
tubes, nano wires of metals and¾ Nanowires of metals and semiconductors¾ New experimental tools to study nanostructures
semiconductors,
new– scanning probe microscopy
experimental tools to study¾ What about the applications?
17
nanostructures, scanning probe
microscopy, lots and lots of exciting things have happened.

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If you take what the top fiveare in physics, now theysometimes are worried “Toomuch emphasis on numbers.”
Sometimes in science, one has
to look at the quality indifferent ways but it is good tohave at least a feeling and ayardstick. We all have anh-number. If you have an hnumber of 100, you have 100
hundred papers with more than100
citations;withanh-number of 10, you have 10
papers with more than 10
citations. So, it depends onthe feedback, and you have tobe very careful about this.
In Nature, 3 years ago, they
published a new kind of
18
Nature, Vol. 441, May 18, 2006, p. 265
analysis on publication by fieldtopics in physics they have their own number system. They came up with the top fivethings in physics (There are no particle physics); carbon nano tubes, nano wires,
quantum dots, fullerenes, giant magnetoresistance. That is where all the papers arebeing published and cited. That is what interests them. This is two or three years ago
but I do not think these have changed very much.
So, the scientific challenges of 2010, are
how complex phenomena emerge from
simple ingredients? How will the energy
demands of future generations be met?
What is the physics of life?
What
happens far from equilibrium and why?
What new discoveries await us in the nanoworld if we just go down the hall and see

CMMP 2010 Scientific Challenges• How complex phenomena emerge from simple
ingredients?
• How will the energy demands of future
generations be met?
• What is the physics of life?
• What happens far from equilibrium and why?
• What new discoveries await us in the
nanoworld?
• How will the IT revolution be extended?
1936023-056.indd 14

09.7.28 6:43:05 PMsome of the work being done here either on our site or where you see the work done inmagnetic semiconductors… who knows, there may be some new discoveries like thatand how will the IT revolution be extended? I think predictions are very hard to make.
When Watson started IBM, he thought the world had use for only five computers.
There are many, many such mistakes. In 1900 the Head of the US Patent office wasreported to have said that everything that had to be invented had been done and the US
should close the office. So, we should take all the predictions with a grain of saltbecause something new and unexpected will happen and this is the only thing we can becertain of.
So, some of the Nobel Prizes had many contributions from industrial laboratories…
Look at them.

20

They came from General Electric, from Bell Labs, from IBM Zurich, Texas
Instruments, and this is not even a complete listing. This is from the field ofcondensed matter. So one has to ask the question, how will universities and nations
create that kind of environment where advances can be done? Is the WPI the answer?
Some other method?
My own view is one should try different experiments and I want to write a lot on that
subject which needs to be clear. Very important, how you create that environment
where this kind of work flourishes even though now Bell Labs is dead and IBM is deadand General Electric is dead, etc.

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Materials Research Funding

Look
at
the
changesinmaterials research.
Again
from
materials researchfunding,
Japan,
China.
China!
You can see how it
is growing likeleaps and bounds…
and Taiwan, Korea.
United States hasremained flat. We
21
㸫Reproduction from CMMP / Physics 2010㸫
see
that
in
engineering, you see that much of the action is in the Far East; previously it was only
Japan there but not any more. South Korea, Taiwan, China or all, and you know this.
India is even missing, but India is coming up fast.
If you look at
articlesandpublications in PRL
and PRB, you willfind that the industrial
laboratories,
Bell
Labs and IBM, which
published so many inthe past, went down
to zero almost, and it
really tells you that
there is something
wrong.
While the㸫Reproduction from CMMP / Physics 2010㸫
22
total
numberofarticles is going up, the industrial labs are finished, it ishuge change.
ENGINEERING AS A
LINKINGDISCIPLINE

Now I want to say a little bit about engineering and23

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what it is in education, and then we have some policy. So, this is the example which I
always use, which I used at the Harvard Board of Overseers as to why Harvard should
do engineering and why engineering should be a thing to do.
Actually, last week, I was at Harvard at a very big symposium on “Two Cultures.” I
do not know how many of you know C. P. Snow. He was the English scientist andphilosopher and writer who was a student of Rutherford and Bragg and then wrote
novels and then became a high government official. In 1959 he gave a famous lecture
in Cambridge University which is titled “Two Cultures,” meaning the humanities on one
side, the sciences on the other side and it was engineering at the bottom. He was very
concerned about this. He said you have to break this divide between the humanists andthe scientists, and take advantage. That is another important reason Britain and Oxford
have actually fallen behind today, because the great powers depend on technology.
The United States may suffer the same fate and who knows who the next one will be, is
it China or is it some other country? We do not know.
I showed this to
Larry
Summers Engineering meets human needs
becauseitsaid,
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century’s
greatest
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advance in diagnosis,
VFLHQFHFU\RJHQLFVVROLGVWDWH
the MRI, is the
SK\VLFVDQGDSSOLHGPHGLFLQHರ
product of many'U+DUROG9DUPXVIRUPHU1,+'LUHFWRU
DQG1REHO/DXUHDWH
disciplines”
The
1XFOHDU0DJQHWLF5HVRQDQFH 105 WKHVFLHQWLILFIRXQGDWLRQIRU05,
nuclearmagnetic
ZDVSLRQHHUHGE\%ORHPEHUJHQ3XUFHOODQG3RXQGDW+DUYDUG
3XUFHOOZRQWKH1REHO3UL]HLQ3K\VLFVIRUWKLVGLVFRYHU\resonance which led
7KH1REHO3UL]HLQ0HGLFLQHZDVDZDUGHGWR/DXWHUEXUDQG
to MRI was pioneered
0DQVILHOGIRUZRUNOHDGLQJWRWKHGHYHORSPHQWRIPRGHUQ05,LPDJLQJ
24
by
NicholasBloembergen. He was a graduate student at Harvard for Edward Purcell, and in fact
the Harvard physics department did not want to appoint Bloembergen to its faculty
because he was too applied. Purcell won the Nobel Prize in 1952. And the Dean of
the Engineering and Applied Physics was Van Vleck, the famous Nobel Prize-winningphysicist in 1977. He said “I will hire Bloembergen in applied physics” because
applied physics was in the Division of Engineering then. Bloembergen, of course, wasalso inventor of the laser and also nonlinear optics and won the Nobel Prize in physics

39023-056.indd 17

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in his own right in 1981 and became a University Professor at Harvard from theDivision of Engineering and Applied Sciences (DEAS).
But what is more important was you could not go from NMR to the MRI in a straightforward way. You will have to do wonderful amounts of electrical engineering andapplied physics. In fact the two people, Lauterbur and Mansfield, would apply to thedevelopment and realize to actually do the imaging of the brain, you have to look at thegradient of the magnetic field of the nuclei that allowed you to image the brain and that
won them the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 2003.
So, if anybody tells you physics did it, well physics was important, but engineering
was equally important for the things that really changed our lives. Nobody could havepredicted that you would go from what might be useful for chemistry and solid statephysics to something like putting the human being into MRI. This is not a simple
linear path. It requires enormous amount of thinking, that is why they got Nobel Prize.
Such work will be done at engineering schools, at Santa Barbara, or applied physics
departments.
So practical research is really a key.
Engineering meets human needs.

Takes aim at cancer.

The tinkerers and engineers,

Engineering meets human needs

2540

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09.7.28 6:43:05 PM

Engineering underpins discovery

26

this viewpoint commenced on recent advancement to understand the design control,
biological efforts, it highlights the supply of good engineering principle evolved byrandom tinkering. This is coming in science. Therefore, if somebody says “appliedscience and engineering” is beneath, that is where the action is. It is a message that I
want to keep on drilling, that it is helping laboratories function.
Anotherexamplewhere
engineering meets human needs
is the case of the Internet’s
invisible hand. No one owns it.
No one in particular runs it.
Yet more than half a billion
people rely on it. The Internet
network has evolved over morethan three decades of seamless
evolution.

Engineering meets human needs

The Internet's Invisible Hand
“NO one owns it. And no one inparticular actually runs it. Yet
more than half a billion people
rely on it as they do a lightswitch. The Internet is a
network whose many
incarnations … have seen it
through more than three
decades of ceaseless evolution.”27

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Dr. Yan Chow, a pediatrician with Kaiser, demonstrates avideoconferencing system that would allow doctors to speakwith patients in their homes.

28

Today, we are trying to change all of medical care (using Internet technology) and thatis how we hope to transform the world. This is the cover of New York Times, Feb. 1,
2009. You are relating to the world. I am really fond of my Blackberry and I tell you
it has saved me. I do not like to answer the phone and disturb people in meetings, but
if there is an emergency it just vibrates; I can look at it and I can respond quietly.
Twice it has saved me with family emergencies in a good way without disturbing
anybody. Communication is very important and getting here was not easy. Japan ofcourse has been a leader in it, but in United States this was very different.
President Bush did barely use
email, but Obama took it toanother level, he had to fight with
the Secret Service agents to keep
his Blackberry with him. He
cares about technology.
He
cares about science. He cares
about communication. He used
the Internet to bring communitiesof people together and to vote forEngineering meets human needs

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him. He completely transformed it and won the nomination over Hillary Clinton
because he used modern technology and understood the consequences of Internet onsociety. It is really quite something. In Washington, D.C., a new symbol of insider
status is “email with the chief.”

Engineering meets human needs

30

So, at Harvard, the fact that computing is important is taking root. You know the
first PhD program in computer science was started at Harvard in 1950. Then the
Harvard president, Derek Bok, he said “Well, that is too applied; Harvard does not doit.” It was the biggest mistake, of course. Today, my associate dean for Computer
Science has now become the Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences, the mostimportant in Harvard. Things have changed here even in the Harvard because in factcomputer science changed the view of engineers. That is what Bell Labs and IBM did;
computing and communication changed the view of applied science. In the old days,
mechanics, they thought of greasy automobiles… you have a car, it is a very wonderfulthing. But President Obama changed the image because when the president carries
that and computers that way, it has got the knowledge, the communication.
Take advantage, you know it but now United States is coming closer towards Japan’s

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work. You were ahead of us. I do not know about your prime minister. But it is
nice to see our president having a Blackberry and wanting to communicate with thepeople and not be hung up in Washington, D.C. I will advise VIPs to always go into
the lab and be where the scientists do their work and where the people are. That is
another message.
So entire corporations
a story about“The flow of data is growing
are going to change. “It'scommunity andfaster than the processing
power to crunch it. To
collaboration on a scale
Toyota, Honda, all of never seen before … The
winnow it down, we mustcome up with exponentiallytool that makes thisbetter algorithms”
them are going to look possible is the World WideWeb.”
- Prabhakar Raghavan,
different 20 years down Time, December 13, 2006
Yahoo!
the road. It is truly
BusinessWeek, January 23, 2006
about community, acollaboration on a scale never seen before, the tools that make it possible, the worldwide
web. Businesses are awash in a sea of data.
Engineering underpins the economy
32

31

Engineering underpins the economy. Past
studies show that as much as 85% of thegrowth in the United States is due totechnological change. “In spite of the god
and the strange rise of modern India; you haveboth,” it is a wonderful story with the cameland the cell phone. You will haveLord Ganesha, my favorite Lord.
He makes you cross the oceans. I
carry Ganesha so I can fly to Japan,
and not have an accident, andGanesha carries a cell phone,reflection of India in the emerging
21st century power.
As Thomas Friedman has written, “I
am not saying like every politician needs
to be an engineer, but we have to have abasic understanding of the forces that are
affecting the world. In fact when I
visited India as a delegate of the United“Past economic studies
have estimated as muchas 85% of measured
growth in US income percapita is due totechnological change.”
Rising Above The Gathering
Storm: Energizing and
Employing America for a
Brighter Economic Future(2005)

34

35“I’m not saying that every
politician needs to be anengineer, but it would be
helpful if they had a basic
understanding of the forcesthat are flattening the world.”
Thomas L. Friedman
The World Is Flat (2005)
36

44

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States and visited then Indian president Dr. Abdul Kalam, at the Indian White House, hegave me a PowerPoint presentation of carbon nano tubes, etc. I could never haveimagined President Bush doing this. With Obama, maybe there is a chance. This iskind of nice to realize that, this is very important because technology is changing very
fast and bringing people closer together.
So, that is why, President Inoue, you have to build a real global university. Globality
is coming. We have to learn… I had a compliment when I visited NIMS yesterday as
well as here, but you seek so many more foreign researchers come here. You will not
see the benefits immediately; but long term, it is a good thing to do, because the world
will be coming together and we must change global services.
At Harvard… it is a huge circle. We must renew
ourselves, otherwise Harvard would die also, because
Globality
I think the forces which the Internet has released are“Competing (or collaborating)like the printing press 400 years ago. If you just see
with everyone, from everywherefor everything.”
that, it is a tremendous impact. So globality means
37
we will be competing sometimes and we cancollaborate sometimes with everyone from everywhere for everything. So, we mustcompletely change the education of our students. I decided that I would step down as
dean; 10 years was plenty, because Harvard students must understand the consequencesof technology. If they go to Washington, D.C. now, Obama went to Harvard, Summers
went to Harvard, so many of the ministers went to Harvard… if they do not have anappreciation for this, we will have a big problem. It is very important that we train
them accordingly because it is about the brighter students coming to Harvard.
People talk about the IIT’s in India; it is not because their education is that great, it isbecause they have the crème of the crème, the best students of India. Same thing goeswith Harvard. Same thing goes for you, if you lead in education.
I am happy to develop, and I am very happy to tell you that. I sent this new outlineof a course in Technology and Society for approval of the faculty and this faculty ofArts and Sciences is a highly deliberative and complex faculty from classics andSanskrit professors to real engineers. I finally got their approval by email on aBlackberry, “Venky, we are so happy in doing it, everyone helps to achieve this.” At
the beginning, I did not believe this possible, but Harvard too is changing. I thought I
would have great difficulty getting approval for this because I alone cannot just do this.

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I need the faculty’s approval. In fact, what I really want to teach everybody is theessence of what we are as human beings. It is about learning, communicating andabove all curiosity for a scientist. You all understand these keywords. My wife is an
English major, I am getting a bit more curious and that is very important, that Obama
may not know everything but he is curious and asks the right people how it works. Or
can balance the risk when there is a… to think that a nuclear terrorism is the same as
gasoline bombs in the World Trade Center. You can understand the differences, but apresident has to decide: are we going to have a nuclear arsenal or people will beprotected against biological terrorism?
You had better have some ways to think through and analyze it, because all society’s
problems, whether you take biology and stem cells, or drugs, you take the flu epidemic,
you take nuclear terror. You had better understand the consequences of technology.
Like I say, we want our engineers to understand not only how things work, but how theworld works, and we want this humanist and social scientist who understands how
science works, both sides. So we must continue to fight at the engineer faculty. You
are not a real engineer unless you know so much mathematics and so much physics but
we turn them all off. Because too early, we make it too difficult. We never show
them why they should be interested to do it and of course, eventually you must learn
enough mathematics and physics. But it is a question of when.
This is where I was taught 50 years ago. Now we have a new way to learn. I am
finally willing to make changes. Harvard must lead the change because times aredifferent and you must not lose so many of the students from engineering to the social
sciences. We want to be able to explain what we do. It is much easier to explain
physics which I know something about, with the equations than by thought. Doing itwith thought is a lot more harder. I am trying to do it, but I want to write a text bookon it. It is very important that we make science not such a difficult thing. It is notcheapening science.
It is actuallyadvancing science.
So that is the Undergraduate education
message.
We are creating a new course:“Introduction to Technology andSociety”

In fact there is a book by a Professor
Richard Muller of Berkeley that is entitled“Physics for future presidents.”
I
encourage you to read it and I am usingthat as a text. Somebody actually has- enhance technological literacy
among the broad undergraduate
population-demonstrate the “poetry” ofengineering and elicit an “oh, wow”
response from the students
ಯಯ3K\VLFVIRU)XWXUH3UHVLGHQWVರ
38

46

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worried about it. It is a wonderful thing,
the way he explains physics without
equations.

Undergraduate education
We are considering a new SEAS
concentration: Technology andSociety.
- grounding in scientificfundamentals & engineering basics

So that is your broader education,technology and its broader relationships
with society.

- a broad understanding oftechnology and its interrelationships
with society

Right from the beginning, nuclear
power for example, would have gone much further if we had worried about the societal
consequences. So, now there is so much prejudice where a lot of those nuclear
reactors are in the United States. We need nuclear reactors for energy but we cannot
get approvals because of the past.
39

So the gloom and doom:
global economic crisis, about
global warming, General Motors
is going down, toxic mortgages,
in fact you have TARP; there is a
toxic asset relief program. And
NAE, of which I am a fairly
active member, has a new studychanging the conversation.
Dr. Charles Vest, my friend
and President of NAE, has
spoken eloquently on the subject
and I am grateful to him forproviding me the NAE relatedmaterial.

Gloom and Doom!

Toxic
Mortgages

Dow Jones

TARP*HQHUDO0RWRUV40

Changing the Conversation
A National Academy of Engineering Project

It’s
about
engineering.
Engineers help shape the future,
turning dreams into reality.
The vision can change the world.
Engineers are creative problem
solvers.

Your vision can change the world.

41

47

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In fact, Bill Wulf, the last President of
Changing the Conversation
NAE often said that “science is about what
A National Academy of Engineering Project
Engineering
Grand Challenges
is and engineering is about what will be.” Itis more of the future. That is what Bell
Labs. was about. I am actually a physicist.
Stirring our Souls
The grand challenges which NAE has comeup with.
I started with the physics
challenges and went with the engineering
challenges. Engineering grand challenges, they call it stirring our souls. It is a Panel
which was headed by William Perry (former Defense Secretary) and 10 other leading
NAE members. In fact, there is an open website, everybody can see it.
42

The
challenges
includeprovidingenergy for the future.
Developing carbon
sequestration
Secure Cyberspace•
Make Solar Energy Economical ••Prevent Nuclear Terror•
Provide Energy from Fusion
methods
andRestore and Improve Urban•
Develop Carbon Sequestration •managing
theInfrastructure
Methods•
Manage the Nitrogen Cycle
nitrogencycle,
Reverse Engineer the Brain•
Provide Access to Clean Water ••Enhance Virtual Reality
providing access to•
Advance Personalized•
Engineer Better Medicines
clean water.
That
Learning•
Advance Health Informatics•
Engineer
the Tools of Scientific
was
the
most
Discovery
important thing; you
43take clean water inmany parts of the world, but you cannot give drugs in Africa because they cannot drink
the medicines with the water they have. It is such a simple and basic problem thatneeds to be fixed. Engineer better medicines, advance healthcare, secure cyber space;in fact cyber terrorism is a far greater problem than nuclear terrorism. It is not easy tomake a big bomb and take it around the world. You need a missile. But you caneasily sit in your office somewhere and destroy the Internet. Prevent nuclear terror,
restore and improve urban infrastructure, reverse-engineer the brain, now bringing
closer to science, enhance virtual reality, advance personalized learning, engineer toolsof scientific discovery. That is my favorite because I am closest to that. We arebuilding new microscopes and that made it to the list because that is a way of seeing
things.

Engineering Grand
Challenges

48

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So, the Engineering Grand Challenges, see the NAE website, energy environment,
global warming; it is all aboutsociety. Improve medicine andEngineering Grand
healthcare delivery. Reducing
Challenges
See
the NAE website.
vulnerability to human andnatural threats; expand andenhance human capability andEnergyReducing Vulnerability to
Human and Natural Threats
Environment
especially the joy of living.
Global Warming
Sustainability
What we should do, hopefully, if
Expand and Enhance
I can remain in touch with my
Human Capability
Improve Medicine and
And Joy
wife and my children this way,
Healthcare Delivery
44
that is joyous and that is a goodthing which technology can do.

Meeting the Grand Challenges

It is our institutions that must lead the
grand challenges.
There will beuniversities; students, industry, media andgovernment with innovation and action. It
will have to involve all of those features.

Students

Universities

INNOVATION&ACTION

IndustryMedia

Government
45This is the most exciting time for scienceand engineering in human history. I am very
encouraged by what is happening in the
United States. Maybe we will have another
golden era like under Kennedy and Sputnik,
and maybe it is the energy challenge; this time
we are taking it seriously. Japan was
suffered for energy for over 40 years
because you did not have the resources,
so you took earlier action than us. We
can learn from you. But we have a key.
So, this is the technology age,engineering
theenergyfuture,engineering healthcare, adapting to
global change.

This is the most exciting time
for science and engineering inhuman history.
46

Key Initiatives at NAE
Competitiveness in the
Knowledge Age

W orkforce

America’s
Energy Future

Education
PublicUnderstanding

Engineering
Healthcare
Delivery

Adapting to
Global Change

47

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Bottom line, we must impart inour students this excitement. In%RWWRPOLQH
fact, President Inoue, you are䕕 Impart a broad education for the 21st century bycorrect in your plan for the
making students conversant with the Scientific Method
and with advances in science and technology
university. I would love to talk䕕 Train broadly educated or “renaissance” scientists
to you some more about the liberaland engineers by helping them understand how theirwork is informed by and influences society
arts education in the future. It䕕 Contribute to Harvard and the world by supportingmust include science and appliedadvances in science and by spurring direct contributions
science; train students broadly as I
to society through innovations and new technologies
mentioned by helping themunderstand how their work is
informed by and influences society; contribute to the world by supporting advances insciences and by spurring direct contributions to society through research.
48

So, this is the ultimate visionand implication for research; and,PSOLFDWLRQVIRUUHVHDUFKXQLYHUVLWLHV
enhance
integrative, (QKDQFHLQWHJUDWLYHLQWHUGLVFLSOLQDU\UHVHDUFKZLWKDSDUWLFXODUIRFXVRQOLQNLQJDQGWUDQVODWLQJEDVLFUHVHDUFKWR
interdisciplinary research, WPI, I
DSSOLFDWLRQDQGWHFKQRORJ\GHYHORSPHQW
think, is an example of that, with a 'HYHORSLQQRYDWLYHHGXFDWLRQDOFXUULFXOXPZLWKLPSURYHG
particular focus on linking and
FRQWHQWDQGGHOLYHU\ZLWKDSDUWLFXODUIRFXVRQಫH[SHULHQWLDOಬHGXFDWLRQDQGV\QWKHVLVGHVLJQtranslating basic research to 6WUHQJWKHQOLQNVZLWKLQGXVWU\HQKDQFLQJIORZVRI
applications; develop innovative
NQRZOHGJHLQERWKGLUHFWLRQV
teaching with improved content
 5HPDLQDPDJQHWIRUWKHEHVWVWXGHQWVIURPDOORYHUWKH
anddelivery,especially
ZRUOG
49
experiential learning.
I want to teach this class. Take for example GPS systems, all the kids know GPS
and then they are going to find and do little treasure hunting with the GPS system. So,
they will not be afraid and you are going to explain to them the simple way why you
need these four signals and a little bit of relativity to understand GPS. Teach physics
by taking the mechanical forces in the most experimental way but that is the way all
professors taught in the past. We wanted the most exciting lasers, the GPS systems.
Then they can learn the forces and the mechanics. It is a different way to approach the
problem and you are not cheapening it, you are attracting people. I am fascinatedabout it. I want to actually influence all of Harvard. This is what the new education
is about. So, I am very happy that science now fits the new times.

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50

Elevating science is elevating democracy, according to a very nice editorial in the NY
Times, Jan. 27, 2009, on the Obama speech. You should never limit the progress ofscience. You see how this is happening now in our country frankly.

“But once you can’t
talk about one subject,
the origin of theuniverse, for example,
sooner or later othersubjects are going to
be off limits; likeglobal warming, birthcontrol and abortion,or evolution…”

51

51

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We had arguments about abortion. Well, I know how life is! And you will hearthat Darwin was not important to be taught in these schools, and that is backward.
Science has to be open. Once you cut the voice of the university, for example, sooner
or later other stuff is going to be off-limits. That is what was happening in the Soviet
Union. Now, you are heading that way, that global warming, birth control andevolution. Science must be open; actually science and democracy are intimately
related. It is a responsibility we have too as scientists to make sure that this is done ina correct way.
Education(renaissance engineers;
well-rounded liberal arts
education)

So, engineering at Harvard is
and Discovery
Innovation andgoing to be a “connector.” It is Research(advancing knowledge)
Entrepreneurship(societal impacts)
going to connect with all of the
FAS-Science
professional schools.
I wasEngineering @experimenting in my sabbatical
HBS
Harvardby spending time with the(e.g., technologyHMSinnovation andbioengineering,business school. I am a nano (e.g.,management)
systems biology)
HLS
scientist, and what am I doing
HSPH(e.g., privacy and(e.g., global health)security)
with these places? But it is aKSG(e.g., technology policy)
52
good experience.
Learning
things in the business school, the Kennedy School is in some ways much better than in
the faculty of arts and science or engineering. They have developed a case study
method and they teach the students very well. Engineering with the case study method
is a very good way because it takes some of the most challenging problems in energy,
makes a case of it and have the students debated. That is how you make designs. So,in fact, you can adapt. Not everything that the business school does is bad; there arethings you can learn from those other places including in our teaching. That is what I
was doing in my sabbatical. In fact this will connect biology and engineering.
Also, you cannot do great science without great engineering and that is an importantmessage. That is what Bell Labs was about and IBM was about. Thank you.
Prof. Sakurai: Thank you very much. I am really overwhelmed by the completenessof understanding covering the basic science, technology and Harvard policies and theglobal future visions you presented today. We have few minutes for questions anddiscussions.
Prof. Matsuo: Prof. Venky, it was a very exciting talk that we are in a very excitingtime for science and technology. I think universities are still behind a little bit about

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promoting science and technology understanding, especially to non-technology students,
and I am wondering how the United States universities like Harvard educate
non-technology students on technology and science?
Prof. Narayanamurti: I think this is a very challenging question, and for too long tothose first who came from science… and I think it is a problem not just for the
non-scientist but even for those in science, because we turn off so many of them; say
they want to come to engineering, but they all leave and go on and become social
scientist and economist because we turned them off.
I am trying to change this personally, that is why I designed this program. I hope
one day before I retire there will be 500 students coming to my class because they willfind this exciting. I actually believe you, young people, you must challenge them withwhat the great societal problems are and teach them accordingly. So you motivatethem first. Second, we too often frighten people with the mathematics and the physics.
I mean, there is a book by Richard Muller which I just found and I have invited him, thesymposium I am organizing for the National Science Foundation in Hawaii, with all theleading deans and presidents; Chancellor Yang, USCB, Dean Plummer of Stanford,
because I want the big places to actually agree with me so they would transform that
education.
So, we get the very best professors, to start exploring. Not everybody cancommunicate. So I want to go to the freshman class to teach by myself. I think I canreach them and be one of the very best professors to be doing that. So, how tocompletely transform teaching science is big. We were having enrollment in computerscience decreasing, because you will not be regarded as a computer scientist unless you
could do the hardest programming. Even the engineers did not want to go to thecomputer science class because the computer science faculty had made it so difficult.
Unless you are truly award-winning, you will be turned off in the class. It is not theway you teach computer science. If you are truly an award-winner, then you do notneed any lectures at all.
So, I got a simple vehicle to make computing exciting. We got a lecturer who
actually believed in it, and the enrollment went from 100 to 500. The computerscientists are better too because some of them, who want to becomes serious computerscientists, then began to really understand the detail. So, the mindset which we have, a

53023-056.indd 31

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kind of a macho mindset, has to be changed. It is not cheapening it. It is making itinteresting. I firmly believe that. There are so many global challenges. Youngpeople who want to be social entrepreneurs, and you can do good for Africa or the poor
world, young people like to do it. You want the excitement with that.
So, I want to teach them. I got a book that says What I wish I knew when I was 20,
and we want to teach them to explore and actually be creative, so that they actually
blossom to their full extent. I think we have gotten students we will be able to teachand engineering has special problems because there are so many requirements of mathand physics. It should happen later. So I am leading a big fight to change thetraditional policies because in four years, you cannot do all of that. You want to firstteach them the broader aspects of society.
Prof. Matsuo: I understand you personally go to the undergrads to talk to them?
you reaching both into the system of the school?

Are

Prof. Narayanamurti: Yes, the courses are now approved, and I am going to teach it asa regular course. I am very serious, I want to set the rule and I am getting the leading
people in the United States to come, because I think it is important that education mustchange. I firmly believe that. I do not know much about the Japanese system but theUnited States system I know, I have been there 46 years. I know the Indian systemneeds to change, especially the way we teach physics. We turn too many people off.
So, which subject is that? And it is exciting. So, we will do that sentiment and wemust use and ensure the excitement to us.
Prof. Challapalli: You said engineering and science should be related to society, butwhat does this offer exploration and research, where there is no direct connection for anindustrial requirement, immediately at least?
Prof. Narayanamurti: You always go to your environment. I would say the mostimportant thing you want to do for engineering is invent curiosity, right? Alexander
Graham Bell in fact transformed society but he wanted to see how speech will convert
to electricity. So it is a way of thinking. So what I am saying is you really want to be
confident, you want to change the world but you see the full scope. You want to be anentrepreneur. You want to explore.
So, if I did not convey that part properly, my apologies. That is essential; you want

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to build because that is a basic human need and automatically it relates. So people are
mistaken as if you are going to force it, they will have to force telephone but he knewbuilding new high-speed communication system is a good thing to do because thatwhole environment still does not serve the context. All the great scientists, well, youtake Watson, who discovered DNA, they always had a goal in mind. Having somegoals is not a bad thing.
If it is not Einstein, you just leave Einstein alone. That is not what we are talking
about. But you have a lot of great people, the environment that you are losing and theway you think. Maybe I should not use the word “society” but really, it is in a certain
context which has to be understood. It is too often misunderstood, that we just havelots of pure philosophy and research. People do not have a clue what to do. There
are whole bunches of other things we should do, how you hire excellent people, how
you support them. All of those have to be part of it. So, hiring the best faculty at
Tohoku University is almost the most important job that will then be the contribution.
Prof. Sakurai: You mentioned the decline in industrial research laboratories.
the reason? Do we have some better future to change this trend?

What isProf. Narayanamurti: So, I think the reason the decline happened was partly because
we started thinking in very short term. When I said about problems of society, I still
think it will be very long term which is aiming at the future. So there are time-scales,
which I need always to emphasize. It is a very long time-scale. So the way UnitedStates companies were being treated, the stock market, the quarterly profits, it won’t
work. Research has to be funded based on the long term, and really only the big
companies like IBM and AT&T could afford it but even they suffered terribly with theglobal competitions.
So, you have written at many articles. You are creating like WPI here,interdisciplinary centers, etc, but I still think it is not enough. There are pieces ofmanagement; management is not the right word. It is how you nurture and encouragethat kind, it is missing. Ultimately there has to be a leader who understands; a gooddean, a good president, a good director of a laboratory who understands how scientists’and engineers' work and brings them and keeps the environment to make it work.
So government funding is very valuable, but until you build the rest of that55023-056.indd 33

09.7.28 6:43:07 PMsystem—that is what I will write the book on—they will not succeed. My hope is that
now that Steven Chu is secretary of Energy, Larry Summers is adviser to Obama andJohn Holdren too, maybe I could convince a few of them, but I am worried because thegovernment will say you have to follow so many rules, you have to fill in so many
forms. That is not the way to encourage. So, we need to have areas of roughly thecorrect size, where the boundaries of basic and applied research are blurred, there is aleader who understands how all of this works and gives them the stability and the
support to do the work, free of bureaucratic interference.
So, I was very close and very attracted and that is some of the design and then thestock market crashed. I told Larry Summers we should do that at Harvard. We
should be rich enough university. Let us build few mini Bell Labs, which is very
important. I think somehow that needs to be created. We must try different
experiments. There is no perfect formula for this, but that needs to happen. That iswhat I want to write about because I think under Obama there may be a chance: orhopefully some big donor will come in. It may be Bill Gates. It might be Steve
Balmer, my friend; anything we want to support you, I would go. Because I think thegovernment became a different profit firm, at least in the United States, very, very
inclusive. When they first started the national laboratories, it was the Atomic Energy
Commission, NASA, AMES Lab., and AT&T ran the Sandia National Labs for notmoney. Now Sandia Labs are run by a profit contractor. They are in it to makemoney. So, I think I explained when I said you want industrial connections as thelong-term connection, so you know what the most exciting challenges are 10-20 years
down the road.
So, I hope Japan applies those. Other countries will start because that is what will be
required. Very steady funding. Big funding is not as important but steady funding.
Prof. Sakurai: Everybody knows Einstein. Everybody knows Edison, but I havenever thought of combining them together, Einstein and Edison. So, let’s thank Dean
Venky for his great talk.
Prof. Narayanamurti: Thank you.

56

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