30% CLUB JAPAN INVESTOR GROUP INTERVIEW SERIES VOL4
Interview with Yuko Kawamoto : Diversity and Corporate Governance
GSAM Thanks for joining us today,
Kawamoto-san. You started your career at
the Bank of Tokyo (the present MUFGBank, Ltd.) and are now a professor at theGraduate School of Business and Finance(Business School) of Waseda University
while serving as an external director atseveral companies, including the SoftBank
Group. Could you speak about your career
path so far?
Kawamoto I majored in social psychology
at university and joined the Bank of Tokyo(the present MUFG Bank, Ltd.) aftergraduation. I married my husband during
my third year with the bank, and I
accompanied him when he went to the U.K.
to study. At that time, I too studied atOxford University. Later, I joined McKinsey& Company in 1988 and worked on projects
in Tokyo and Washington D.C. At that time,
no other women at McKinsey Tokyo had achild, but I was lucky to have a very
cooperative boss. Just around the time thatmy second child was born, my husband
was transferred to the OECD in Paris, and I
was luckily able to work at McKinsey Paris.
Thereafter, I came back to Tokyo andserved as a member of the committee
mandated to lead the privatization of four
public highway corporations. I was often
referred to as a "female committee
member" in meetings there, which surprised
me because although I had previously been
identified as an expert at a financial
institution and a mother, I was neveridentified first as a "woman" in theworkplace. Then, in 2004, when Waseda
University established a business school offinance in Nihonbashi, I obtained a teachingposition there. Since then, I have served as
an external director at various companies.
GSAM What helped you make the transfer
to other countries as you wished whileworking at McKinsey? Was it somethingthat had to do with the company's culture orsystem?
Kawamoto When my child was born, myboss allowed me to investigate the systems
in other countries since there was noprecedent in Japan, so I looked into thesystems of other countries and used themas a reference when developing a system
for Tokyo. The environment at the company
is of course important, but you must be
flexible as well. I think my husband's
understanding and cooperation were more
important than anything else in helping me
to keep working.
GSAM Were there any differences in theenvironment between 2013, when you were

the first female director among the threemajor banks and the only female director in
Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, versus
2018, when there were three women
directors at MUFG?
Kawamoto Women don’t all have thesame opinion, but if there is only onewoman, her opinion tends to be seen as
representing all other women. So it is truethat when another woman was added to theboard in 2014, the tension relaxed. And
when we had three women directors, thespecialties of each stood out more.
GSAM How is diversity in the Board of
Directors important from the viewpoint ofcorporate governance, which is yourspecialty?
Kawamoto If the Board of Directors isdiverse, each director perceives issues andrisks differently. When directors consider
things from diverse viewpoints, it is highly
likely that they can come to the best
decision. Since various male directors havedifferent backgrounds and experience, theynaturally have some diversity. However, I
feel that there is a greater amount ofpressure to fit in with everyone else,
especially in Japan.
GSAM Based on your experience working
at McKinsey Tokyo and Paris, what do you
think Japanese companies should do tohelp female employees demonstrate theirabilities more effectively in theirworkplaces?
Kawamoto First, they should freethemselves from being excessively
conscious about the roles of men andwomen. It is often said that women have life
events such as marriage and childbirth, butmarriage is not possible without acounterpart, and it should be considered an
important life event for men as well.
GSAM Of course, childbirth is an important
event for men, too. During recent
conversations with portfolio companies, wehave noticed some cases where a highpaternity leave take-rate appeared to belinked to a high ratio of women in
managerial positions.
Kawamoto I think that Japanese people
have an excessively strong concept ofgender roles that assumes women will
become housewives. In addition, people
say that men tend to be evaluated based on
their potential, while women tend to beevaluated based on their performance. Infact, one academic study suggests that

Yuko Kawamoto
Professor, Waseda Graduate
School of Business and Finance
After graduating from theUniversity of Tokyo and obtaining
an MS degree in Development
Economics from Oxford University,
Yuko Kawamoto worked at theBank of Tokyo (the present MUFG
Bank, Ltd.) and McKinsey &Company. Since 2004, she hasserved in her current position. She
also serves as an Outside Director
at SoftBank Group, Panasonic
Corporation, and Shinsei Bank,and she is a Trustee Director ofThomson Reuters Founders
Company. She previously served
as an Outside Director of MUFG,
Japan Exchange, ResonaHoldings, Yamaha Motor, andother companies; an Outside
Auditor at Tokio Marine Holdings;
and a member of government
committees, including the National
Public Safety Commission.

women work longer hours than men inorder to be promoted. Previously, there
were restrictions imposed by time andlocation. However, now that more work canbe done online, I believe that women
employees, especially those who aremothers, can work more comfortably. In thissense, the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic
serves as a tailwind.
GSAM Do you have any advice tocompanies who are having difficulties
finding excellent female directors?
Kawamoto Finding candidates outside of
the company is of course important. On theother hand, many years have passed since
women began participating in theworkplace. The top management inparticular should be aware of this—it isimportant to thoroughly check people inmanagerial positions to see whether they
have discriminatory views. Top
management needs to recognize thatwomen do not want to join companies that
hold discriminatory views. Since Japan issafe, there are many women from overseas
who come to study in Japan. However, theyrarely choose to work in Japan. Japan is141st among 153 countries in terms ofwomen's level of participation in theworkplace. Since women in 140 othercountries enjoy a higher status than womenin Japan, it’s no wonder that women fromoverseas do not come to Japan to work.
Also, I want people who work in companies
to check if their companies' commercials for
products and services promote
discriminatory gender roles. I also wantthem to seriously review their programs fordeveloping female employees.

GSAM What system or structure isdesirable for Boards of Directors to facilitate
exchange of diverse opinions regardless ofrace or gender?
Kawamoto Having an environment foropen, frank discussion is very important.
Regardless of how diverse the directors
may be; I think that they will not be able toachieve their purpose unless they can haveopen discussions. Diversity is probably
most effective in environments that permit
different work styles and views of life. It isalso important for the top management toproactively create such an atmosphere andset up a place for open discussion. At thesame time, directors and participants atboard meetings should improve their skills
needed for these discussions. The Board ofDirectors is a node between the inside andoutside of the company, and if they cannot
persuade outside directors, they will not beable to convince the public. The ability toexplain is important. To me, the word
responsibility from its Latin roots refers to"the ability to respond" rather than theJapanese direct translation “責任” meaning
to take liability.

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