Research Paper of the Anthropological Institute Vol.5 (2017)

Discussion[Dr. Goto] I would like to start the discussion of this symposium by first saying that I
appreciate our three guests from three Asian countries and our two commentatorsfrom Japan. I am a director of the Anthropological Institute. The reason we started
this kind of project is, that anthropology is originally a western discipline, introduced
to many countries in the colonized context. But innocent researchers share a kind of
second o5r third generation with each country. However, when we talk aboutanthropology, we realize that there are some similarities to sympathize with eachother within Asian anthropologists. I don’t claim that we have a complete
understanding of Asian countries’ people, but I hope to share some things so that wehave a mutual understanding – a better understanding of each other than westernanthropologists do.
We would like to discuss a very practical aspect of anthropology for eachcountry. I was doing field work in the Philippines for an internship. Filipino
anthropologists have a very strong motivation to conduct anthropological research tohelp the people. That’s one of the reasons why we start this kind ofinternationalization, promoting programs of this institute.
I would like to ask all three guests to speak again. I know that you are very
specialized in tiny fishing communities. To talk about the revival or recovery offishing communities, the recovery and subsistence of fishing are very important. In
fishing and agriculture, and other subsistent communities, an individual cannot doanything. Usually, corporates cannot help either. So, what sort of anthropologicalstudy, what kind of association or organization is appropriate to revise? Like afisherman’s organization or company or any – what? Is there any idea of what to doin each case? We Japanese also need advice from each of your countries.
[Dr. Zayas] This is a day of so much learning and I am so happy to professor Goto andprofessor Kawashima, people I have read a lot and quoted a lot in my papers. I think
we should also put into context professor Goto’s idea of work on anthropology. The
bigger concepts of anthropology are the crisis of the discipline. Is the system ofpolicies of globalization, social sciences, and particularly anthropology being
removed in the universities? We listened to professor Kawashima. We listened toprofessor Akimichi. How important anthropologists are in our disaster investigation!
Who will find the story? Who will find the story and narratives? It is we, in thearchives, listening to people. We, who have the patience to listen and collect. This isour big draw.

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And I think we in Southeast Asia, especially maritime Asia, are connected
because of sharing common disasters like earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, cyclones,
and what have you. I mean, these are the bigger concepts of having a network, ourdiscipline, and of course, human wellbeing among our nations. Now, I think,specifically if you want a complete example, professor Kawashima mentioned
fiberglass boats versus wooden boats. Of course, our traditional fishermen would likewooden boats, because plastic can never replace real wood. In the Philippines, westill have traditional boat builders, but it is an effort to find them there. You can stillfind them in Borneo.
Perhaps anthropologists can act as a link so people can relate. The carpenters,of course, our technology, our designs are different, but carpenters can learn fromeach other. And so, it’s not just anthropologists, but also those people who have taught
us about their lives. Thus, somehow, we are the connectors for these kinds ofrelationships. With regard to professor Akimichi and being an activist, of course wecannot refuse because we know the problem. And we can understand more or less theproblem when we are in the field, and that is why we are forced to act on behalf ofthe people that are teaching us anthropology. We learn so much of the discipline thisway.
So, anthropology is not only collecting data, but also taking action. Doing somedifficult things. Through that, we are able to say to governments and internationalorganizations that we know a lot, so you have to listen to us. We are never consulted
in policies. It’s always others - the engineers who are there - but never us. Maybesociologists or psychologists, but never us. So, I think if we are together, you know,
as a network, we can be stronger. Thank you.
[Dr. Adhuri] I would like to also thank the wisdom of the Nanzan University for our chances
for collaborations - better networking between Asian anthropologists and a couple ofyou anthropologists. I think they mentioned that once we are collaborators, we cancombine our different perspectives into a new reality, and with that information, wecan come up not only with better knowledge, different knowledge, but also better
implementation of concentration for the betterment of most of the people of pre- andpost-disaster targets and implementation of relief.
We also learned that we have experienced similar cases, disaster cases, where
we can also see lessons learned from each of them. Again, this is also animplementation that we can benefit from as a collaboration - a networking.
The second point is what the roles of anthropology are. Again, I would like toreflect on my own experience. Since my work on a tsunami simulator in my country
that was founded in 2006, my work has been more directed toward inland populations.
Therefore, it is more thinking of taking an approach from applied anthropology which
is like fitting a soup pot into the activities.

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Usually, there is community involvement as well as cost assessment
management. Thus, it is important to apply to work not only with otheranthropologists, but to also work with other disciplines as well, such as NGOs
working on similar issues for basic implementation on the ground. For example, if
you look at the approach for unprotected areas, we have been witnessing that up close.
The approach to unprotected areas has been dominated by western scientificapproaches. Where implemented with a direct community of people, it is considered
X amount and we call it access to resources and there can be a threat to the system ofresources. So, using only calculations, communities can be excluded from accessing
the resources.
In the last ten years, I have been involved in a movement to include thecommunity in the management design. I have worked in affected areas. For example,last year, we worked with governments, thus affecting government policies. I workedwith NGOs who try and have started thinking of how to actually get into thecommunities in the protected areas and establish what we call a guideline for postaffected areas. Where the community has a right to accept and develop their own
management, preserve management in my pointed area, others are acknowledged bygovernment entities who are in charge of taking care of people living in the affectedareas.
In Italy and in other areas, we are also trying to push for and influence thegovernment to revise laws by acknowledging traditional wisdom and practices. Of
course, there is risk management which is basically acknowledging the accounting
for the problems in rural environments. There are also other accounts from other partsof Indonesia, things that we said that are practical, such as in Maluku. In this example,the places where we are losing, we are trying to make the government aware of a need
to form a kind of business association, just like in Japan. We are trying to gain thegovernment’s sympathy to maintain this business association. Then, the petitioners
usually hold protests because that used to be the mechanism used as a resistance torestricting fishing space. Such things can allow us to learn. I mean not only fromJapan, but also from others. It is very important to solve our anthropologicalcontribution for the betterment of the coastal association as well as the coastal
communities. Thank you very much.
[Dr. Gopalan] Thank you. I have three observations. One is that through these presentations,
we have been witnessing some universal ideas. In the case of the presentation by Dr.
Zayas from the Philippines, she was always stressing one point: that we are missing
out, that we are no longer in touch with traditional knowledge systems.
This is also true in the case of my experiences in India. In our times, fishermen
are no longer aware of their ancestors’ knowledge. In one interview last year in mycity, Chennai, when I was recording the folksongs of the fishermen, one fisherman54

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was talking about at least 16 directions which could be grasped by fishermen of thepast generations.

The present day fisherman have no understanding of thistraditional knowledge system that was known to their ancestors. Their ancestors werefishing without GPS navigation and other modern gadgets. They navigated accordingto natural proofs. This must be true of Japanese fishermen also, only some 60 or 70
years ago.
One area of interest for me personally is that we need to go for requesting thegovernment agencies to help in the documentation of traditional knowledge systems,
which are no longer in place as far as these communities are concerned. One way is
to bring them in contact with how grandfathers and grandmothers were doing things
and their ability to react to natural forces.
There is another aspect of anthropology that examines danger. Danger is a siteof many of our academic enquiries and this site becomes an ally of another fascinatingsite of anthropologists and communication scholars, modernity. For instance, we tend
to highlight the “danger potential” of natural disasters like Tsunamis. But the common
man, particularly, the fisher folk go about their routine without trying to exaggerate
the “danger potential”, even though they are the victims and very likely to be thefuture victims of Tsunamis.
Secondly, Professor Goto wanted to know from us suggestions regarding how
we can improve the lot of fishermen. There are some universal facts. The problemsof Indian fishermen may not be exactly the same as the problems of Japanesefishermen, but there are probably similarities. We need to study the universal
problems of fishermen and the problems unique to a particular region.
In my state, Tamil Nadu, I find that fishing communities get into conflicts overtheir right to fish in “Others'” territories. Every 100 kilometers on the coast, theirconflicts, cultures and practices present a different picture. The disputes aretraditional and age old, but are also caused by the laws of the modern state and its
instruments of law and order such as the coast guard.
The third point I have written about is selling off of imported fish in othercommunities’ markets. Recently, in the city of Madras, the local corporation authority
opened a very big fish market; a modern market which is supposed to sell only fishfrom other states. This was the cause for a huge outcry among local fishermen,
because they think that the government is doing this against them making this amultilateral conflict. Yes, fishermen go to fish, live difficult lives, come back withtheir catch, but in spite of making lots of money, they are unable to live peacefully.
Many of the respondents said that they have lost their peace of mind.
Professor Goto wanted to know how we can improve the lot of fishermen. It is
not an economic improvement. It is something else, since they no longer have themeans to live peacefully, at least in India. They have associations which have politicalaffiliations, but this is another problem because these associations have their own55

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agenda. Political agendas, not the agenda of the fishermen. So, the higher the numberof political associations, the higher the problems of the fishermen in the case of Tamil
Nadu. I think, as everyone has argued, we need to get into collaboration mode about
disciplinary practices so we can learn from each other about the disciplinary practices
we encounter in different countries in Asia. We must come to, if not a consensus, atleast an understanding about the practices of others, and explore possibilities ofassimilating the best practices of fishermen of other parts of Asia and fuse them with
our practices. In all three cases, the Philippines, Indonesia, and India, there are similar
contexts. By establishing a larger context of collaboration, we may invite the attentionof anthropologists and researchers in each of these cases to the possibilities mentioned
above. Professor Zayas also mentioned after my presentation that the Philippine
media are no different in their reporting on marginalized companies. Thus,
marginalization is the same, be it in India, the Philippines, or Indonesia.
The state of the media, the state of government, and the household morals arepresent everywhere. We need to engage in collaborating more, so that we can better
understand the qualities of life that are universal. Universal qualities come from thekind of multi-national qualities of some organizations which are not present only inAsia. Something like the European Union may have something to offer our fishermen.
Pan Asian fishing rights for Asian fishermen in Asia, for instance.
In the Indian case, it is because of the gap in minds of the policy makers of thefishermen. There is a landlocked city and the people living in the city cannot
understand the issues of the fisherman in peninsular India because there is nopossibility to bridge the divide in the mindsets of people/policy makers living in
landlocked cities and the coastal cities, which I mentioned yesterday. Many of myrespondents from the coastal areas said openly that land-based people cannot
understand fishermen's issues.
So, as an academic, I need to address this. How I can address this? I will closewith this: at least in India, last year, I started this experimental project, because weacademics need to facilitate change. We should not only publish papers and attendconferences. We should help our fellow people, in this case, fishermen, to improvetheir lot. At the end of the day, I won’t be satisfied with just presenting a paper at aconference. I will be happier when I see actual change in the field that I work in. So,
how do we bring about real change? What I am doing is:I take my students andfaculty to the fishing community and try to tell them, “Yes, I think, you said landbased people cannot understand you. So, we will train your children to be journalists.
We will train your children to be advisors. We will train your children to be
government policy makers.”

I think this is the best to bring about change.

[Dr. Akimichi] In Indonesia, there is a local governor’s association. In the northern part ofJapan, in Miyagi, the governor of Miyagi Prefecture claimed we should make a new56

『人類学研究所 研究論集』第 5 号（2017）organization.
The Miyagi governor proposed the new idea of a fishing cooperative after atsunami that has co-sharing. A public organization, a cooperative, but the boss andmost of the fishermen’s association, the FCL (official cooperative solution) wereagainst the project. But finally, last year, one oyster culture group successfullylaunched such a program. So, maybe, this is the first case. Maybe professor
Kawashima will explain later. I think this is a very powerful message from Japan toIndonesian companies which also suffer from tsunamis. New ideas were already being
implemented in parallel with Japanese law. Everyone wins with that. Maybe in thefuture, several years from now, maybe you should study about Japan's transformationprocess.
[Dr.Kawashima] Dr. Akimichi told of an example of beginning to run a certain company inthe fishing village by establishing a special fishery zone in the Miyagi Prefecture.
First of all, the fishery has an aspect of group work, but in case of a disaster like atsunami, if people gather and work on rehabilitation together, recovery can be fasterand successful, like the OMOE-Fishery Cooperative Association in Miyagi city.
According to the association’s activities, people fished as a group for a while. But
basically, fishing for abalone or spearing fishing depend on each person’s technique,so some fishermen who could not accept the way of fishing with a group left theassociation. Similarly, when wholesalers of skipjack tuna or feed fish sardines forskipjack tuna were told to work cooperatively, they could not maintain good
relationships, therefore, those two wholesalers could not compromise. We have to beaware of those sensitive incidents and watch those areas as special fishery zones.
Aid ships came soon after the rehabilitation began, but those ships came fromthe Japanese seaside and were not ideal for those areas. This incident made people
study the features of those ships and improve them. The Sanriku coastal area shows
the features of the occurrence of disasters like tsunamis. Seeing that stirs people,
creates movements and culture, and changes them dramatically.
[Dr. Goto] Thank you very much. I think there are still some questions from the audience,
but we have another scheduled event after this conference. I would like to wind up
while we continue discussions.
This symposium is the biggest event of the Promoting Globalization Project, but
we have finished only half of it. As Dr. Akimichi mentioned, we will go to the Miyagi
Prefecture for research tomorrow. We would like for the presenters from Asia who arefacing natural disasters to see the current situation in Japan where a catastrophic
natural disaster occurred. The area is my hometown, so I will drive to show them areas
like Yuriage and Arahama and Higashi Matsushima, Ishinomaki, etc. Just after thedisaster, there was a lot of debris. It was collected and now, we can see a lot of57

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pyramid-like mounds of soil. Between those pyramids, there are memorials andmonuments. Anyway, I would like them to see those areas and give us theirimpressions.
Today’s symposium will be published next year as an English thesis paper fromthe Institute of Anthropology.
Many thanks to our three presenters and two commentators for today’s
International Symposium.

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