Interview‘Why I decided to leave Nichia
for the American Dream’

more left to be done. Of course, there isProfessor Shuji Nakamura, University of California, Santa Barbara, U.S.A
Interviewer: Yasuhiko Arakawa, JSAPI Editor in Chiefthese new products. So one of the reasons I

still some effort required to make these newtechnologies into commercial products, but
as far as development is concerned, it’s prettymuch been completed. Nichia will expand
and benefit greatly from manufacturing
decided to quit was the fact that the development had been completed and I had fulfilled my role within the company.
Another reason was that in Japanese companies, no matter what you have accomplished neither your position nor your salarychange very much. Not just my previouscompany, but other companies as well. Perhaps there are one million-yen bonuses(around $10,000) given to people, but that’s
about it. The workers are all treated more orless the same.

Professor Shuji Nakamura is internation-on the reasons why Professor Nakamura de-I have attended many conferences in the US.

ally acknowledged as having developed thecided to resign from Nichia and some of hisQuite often I was told by local scientists andworld’s first commercial GaN-type blue LED at

plans and directions for the future as an aca-engineers attending such meetings that in

Nichia Chemical Industries Ltd. (‘Nichia’). His

demic at UCSB, rather than the technical as-

the US if someone developed technology

innovations have created new industries work-

pect of his work. I think that his comments andthat led to significant profits for the com-

ing on either the direct manufacture of violet/opinions about industry, education and sciencepany then that person would be treated likeblue/green LEDs and laser diodes or enterprises

contain valuable advice that should be particu-

a “superstar”. There is little or no incentive

involved in their applications for products suchlarly noteworthy for many of our readers, es-

to work harder or be creative. Everyone is

as DVD’s and white lighting. Professor

pecially younger researchers and students inequal which in one sense can be good but

Nakamura could be described as one of theJapan.

in another sense it can be bad for highly mo-pioneers, including Professors Akasaki, Meijo

Yasuhiko Arakawa

University, of the modern day ‘blue period’ and

JSAPI Editor in Chief

tivated people. The basic principles of competition are lost.

his ingenuity will have an effect on millions ofArakawa: So you think there are problems

people worldwide.

with the process of evaluation in Japan?

Why I left Nichia

Nakamura: Yes. The reason that Japan’s in-Nakamura surprised many of us when he an-

Arakawa: I would like to start by asking why

dustrial working practices have not changed

nounced that he was resigning from Nichia

you decided to resign your position atis because able and talented people do not(where he had worked for 20 year) and would

Nichia? Also why America and academia asquit and move on. I worked at Nichia for 20

be joining University of California at Santa Bar-

opposed to industry?

years, without ever thinking of quitting. Top-bara as a faculty member. The sudden transi-

Nakamura: I would like to start with yourclass sports people get raises if they threatention from a Japanese company to a university

first question and why I quit my company. Ito quit because their managers want to keepin the United States was totally unexpected andhave been working on the development ofthem. That’s how it should work. You see

was big news in both Japan and overseas.

Towards the end of 1999, Professor

blue LED’s since 1989. Most of the develop-

my generation grew up being taught that

Professor Nakamura authored an excellent

ment work on white light illumination using

you should stay with one company all yourreview article on blue lasers and LEDs, for theLED’s and related technology was prettylife. We were led to think that quitting a

inaugural issue of JSAPI in January 2000. For

much finished by 1995 or 1996. After that,company was a bad thing. We believed it.

this second issue of JSAPI, the editorial com-I worked on laser related products and thatBut just look around today. More people are

mittee decided to interview Professor Nakamura

work was finished around October last year

beginning to doubt this way of thinking. I

to enquire why he decided to go to UCSB and(2000); the 5-mW laser was anyway. So now

think that more people should consider re-his plans for the future. Therefore, recently,

Nichia has the technology to produce higher-

signing so that management can see the real

when I had an opportunity to go to the US, I

wattage lasers although they are not yet

value of talented people.

also visited him at UCSB and interviewed him

commercial products. So, as far as develop-

Arakawa: I have the impression that large

for this issue of JSAPI. The conversation focused

ment is concerned, there was not much

Japanese corporations follow this kind of22

JSAP International No.2 (July 2000)

traditional management system, although

America, too. I received all kinds of offers;me busy.

recently, some are trying to change. But I

some with very good salaries. Initially I didn’t

Arakawa: Yes, lectures can take up a lot ofwould have thought that Nichia, which could

want to join a university. I did not consider

time especially the first time around, al-

be classified as a small-medium sized ven-myself as being an educator. I am a com-though, of course, university teaching does

ture minded company, would have treatedpany man. In a company, you should behave its rewards.

you very well. Was this not the case?

able to make it based on your ability. But all

Nakamura: Yes, I am a bit concerned about

Nakamura: No. I realized that the treatment

the companies that approached me werethat, too.

was not good at all, especially since coming

competitors to my former employer, andto Santa Barbara. It’s very different. In Ja-

there is always the problem of patents andMy future planpan the management system is not designed

other legal issues involving confidentiality.

Arakawa: I would like to move onto an-to ‘manage’ scientists and engineers whoAlso, my potential work at another company

other aspect of your work. You have earned

excel in their work. But Nichia, in that sense,

would probably have been similar to that I

fame by developing blue LED. Now that youis still a very traditionally Japanese company.

did at Nichia. That’s why I decided to join aare here, what kind of research are you plan-

I don’t think it will be possible for it to change

university. I did not want to create unneces-ning to do? What are your future plans?

soon.

sary problems. I believe that if a company

Nakamura: Well, first, in America, you must

Arakawa: In Japan, it is often said that be-

man wants to change jobs, it’s better to gogather your own funding for research. You

cause of the potential prospect of an even-to a university; it’s the safest place. Well,

get paid for only 9 months, and you cannot

tual promotion, you should not expect short-actually with most companies it may not beeven hire students if you don’t bring interm rewards or raises. The time constant isa problem, but if a patent is involved, a col-money. So I will need to get some funding

can be long and a promotion is often basedlege is the best place to move to.

first. So that’s my first task. Later, when I

on not just one accomplishment but on theam more comfortable with the language andintegrated effort expended over a given pe-

How I feel now in US

with the country and its culture, I will prob-

riod of time. It can be a long process. Of

Arakawa: Now that a few months have

ably start something new. I don’t know whatcourse, such systems are in modern-day se-passed since coming to Santa Barbara, what

it will be yet, but I will do something. At theriously examined and will be certainly

do you think about your move?

moment everything is new to me; the coun-changed.

Nakamura: I am very glad that I quit andtry, the academic environment, everything.

Nakamura: Well, it’s long... it may be too

moved here. There is absolutely no ques-

Arakawa: Do you plan to still continue worklong.

tion about this. I still cannot believe that I

on LEDs and lasers for foreseeable future?

Arakawa: What was Nichia’s reaction whenwas with that company for 20 years! There

Nakamura: Well, I may want to move onto

you announced your resignation? Did theyis a definite sense of freedom. I am busy-

different things; high power electronic de-ask you to stay or reconsider your decision?

very busy indeed. But still I feel free working

vices, for example.

Nakamura: No. I had kept my resignation ahere. There is no boss and I can do what I

Arakawa: In the US, it is quite common for

secret the entire time. I gave in my resigna-

want to do. Of course, my salary now isprofessors actively working in the field oftion on the same day as I quit. It was very

better than what I used to get from myengineering to start their own company. Aresudden.

former company. If a university here pays

you thinking of doing so?

Arakawa: So you didn’t give them time to

me more than my former industrial employer,

Nakamura: Well, I am not really thinking in

say anything?

you can imagine how much U.S. companies

that direction right now. Also, if you work

Nakamura: Right, I just quit and left. I didn’twere offering

even give them a chance to say anything.

me.
Arakawa: Was

Why I went to university

your pay atNakamura: Now, I would like to try to an-

Nichia not good?

swer your next question about coming toNakamura: ItAmerica. As I said before, I think that thewas the standard

Japanese system is a less competitive system.

income for theBut in the U.S., there is the idea of the

middle-manage-“American dream.” You can give it a try,

ment level in aand you may achieve it. In Japan, it is totallylarge Japanese corporation, perhaps. But thefor a company, there is always the issue ofimpossible, with a success rate of virtually

main difference is the level of freedom I haveterms and conditions. Every company re-zero. But in America, about 10% succeed

here. Sure, I’m very busy-maybe busier thanquires terms, and if you have to deal withwith venture-type businesses.

I was before. In fact, starting next academic

ten companies, you’ll just die. So you get

Actually, I wanted to work for a company inyear, I have to teach! The lectures will keep

money, but in exchange you need to accept

Center:Prof. Nakamura, Right:Prof. Arakawa

JSAP International No.2 (July 2000)

23

their terms. I wish I could get money with-a project, we should always think of the ef-

Some of these very successful people are inout any conditions. But that won’t happen.

fect of the project on society including thetheir twenties and they have seen it happen

So at the moment, I am not thinking in terms

economic aspects because basic research into others. The best students here start theirof setting up a company.

a totally unrelated, unused area is very mean-own companies or join venture companies.

Arakawa: Yes, I suppose your priority will

ingless in the field of applied physics. I think

In Japan, this is not possible yet. The stu-

be more freedom.

that in the future, academics in Japan shoulddents here are very motivated as students

Nakamura: Right. At the moment, I am

actively enter the corporate environment andbecause they know that this is a possibility.

thinking of doing work without companies

work together with companies.

In Japan, most students’ biggest dream is torather than with them.

Nakamura: Yes, in the US, the motivatedjoin a big company. You work as a life-longacademics involved in business are living in‘salary-man’, and then retire. That’s the dif-People should move in Japanhuge mansions. But such professors could

ference.

Arakawa: Can we change the topic again

never afford such houses with only their

Arakawa: Of course, things are changing

and ask you what you think about Japanesecollege salary. So people have a strong mo-in Japan, since large companies are laying

universities and companies in general?

tivation to start a business. And sometimes

off employees because of restructuring andNakamura: Again, as you can see from thethey make one of their students the presi-

downsizing. And of course, parents too

fact that I quit, Japanese companies do notdent of their company. These students workneed to change their mindset: they are of-provide an environment conducive for highly

hard and achieve their American Dream.

ten the ones who want their kids to enter
prestigious companies.

motivated researchers. There are incompetent people who cannot do anything andAmerican schools and students

there are others who excel, but everyone isArakawa: I know that only a few months

given the same treatment. Why? I believe

have passed since you arrived in California

Message to students

it’s because such good people do not quit. I

but what do you think of American univer-

Arakawa: I think the situation is going toalso think I made some mistakes. When Isities and American students in particular?

change in Japan over the next few years.

was writing all those patents for the com-

Nakamura: Well, I have seen that Ameri-

Finally, do you have a message for students

pany, I was thinking only about the com-

can students are very diligent and highly mo-

in Japan, America and all over the world?

pany. I should have thought about quitting

tivated. They work around the clock; almost

Nakamura: Well, I would just say that you

earlier and not have written all those pat-

24 hours. Of course, the fact is that theyshould keep striving to realise your dream.

ents that helped the company get rich. In

don’t graduate unless they produce someIn America it’s called the American Dream.

Japan, you are supposed to dedicate your-significant work. If they don’t perform well,Japanese students should also be aware ofself to the company. That’s what we werethen they don’t finish and cannot graduate.

this possibility. The whole structure of Japantaught. That’s the only way we thought. I

In Japan, most people can graduate evenmust change. If they can only change theirthink that you need to think of yourself. You

with mediocre work. It’s difficult to gradu-

way of thinking it is possible to make a

don’t have to think of your loyalty only. That’s

ate here, so they are motivated to producechange. Success is possible. There are thenot the thing to do anymore. Treatment will

good work. That’s one of the major differ-inevitable failures. Even in America, 90%

not improve until people quit like in base-ences. In Japan, universities are hard to en-of the people starting out venture compa-

ball or soccer.

ter but easy to graduate. In America, it’s thenies fail. But they don’t leave any debts.

As for Japanese universities, well, I’d better

opposite. Easy to get in, hard to get out.

The venture capital invested is gone, butbe careful now since I am with a university

Students are very motivated once they getthat’s it. No negative image remains. But innow, but I feel that Japanese academics re-in.

Japan, if you fail in a venture business, you

ally do not know the outside world, or soci-Arakawa: Yes, exit management is reallywill have a huge debt, and a strong nega-ety. Universities and companies are not good

important. That needs to be changed in Ja-tive image is attached to you for the rest ofat communicating; the means of interfac-pan.

your life. But here, you don’t have that. New

ing is not good. Universities do not compete

Nakamura: Right. Of course, another dif-inventions and innovations are only possible

in Japan. But here in the U.S., many profes-

ference is that in the U.S., the best students

with new ventures.

sors start their own companies. In Japan,

go into venture companies. That’s very im-

the only thing you see occasionally is someportant, making it possible for them tocompany person moving into universities. Inachieve the American Dream. They become

the U.S., a lot of venture companies are lo-very rich. It is possible for them to join such

Yasuhiko Arakawa is grateful to Profes-

cated close to major universities. The Japa-venture businesses. I cannot understandsor Adarsh Sandhu, Tokai University, fornese system should allow professors to go

what’s so good about big companies? Youreviewing the original text of the inter-

into business and earn more.

may make a hundred thousand dollars a year,

view and his valuable suggestions about

Arakawa: That’s very true. When we begin

but then that’s about as high as you go.

the final manuscript.

24

JSAP International No.2 (July 2000)

Nakamura: That’s right.

Acknowledgement