Minutes of the Sixth ABCC/RERF History Forum
Speaker:Dr. Hideya Tamagaki, former ABCC physician in the Departments ofGenetics and Medicine, former ABCC Deputy Department Chief

Moderator:

Mr. Takanobu Teramoto, Executive Director, Chairman of the Historical
Materials Management Committee

Date:

15:00 – 16:00, April 21 (Thurs.), 2016

Place:

Videoconference: Auditorium in Hiroshima Laboratory and Conference
Room 4 in Nagasaki Laboratory(Honorifics omitted)
Teramoto: I would like to express my thanks to all of you who are attending this forum
despite your busy schedules.
The Radiation Effects Research Foundation (RERF), which was establishedin April 1975, has been engaged in research and studies on radiation effects
involving A-bomb survivors and their children since the days of the Atomic Bomb
Casualty Commission (ABCC). ABCC started its research activities in 1947 andcontinued for 28 years. The history of RERF is 13 years longer than that of ABCC,
and this year marks the 41st anniversary of its establishment. The citizens ofHiroshima and Nagasaki remember ABCC in connection with the A-bombs
dropped by the U.S. We find it unfortunate that the memories of ABCC are passed
on to future generations with rather negative images, such as “ABCC only studied
A-bomb survivors but provided no treatment,” or “ABCC treated survivors likeguinea pigs.” However, most of the studies on A-bomb survivors and their children,which continue to this date, were initiated by ABCC. And today, the research
results from these studies are recognized as the gold standard of radiation risk
research, with the resulting scientific achievements given high marks. Therefore,
this ABCC/RERF History Forum series is designed to offer current RERFemployees the opportunity to look back on the history of research with A-bomb
survivors and gain an accurate understanding by listening firsthand to theexperiences and stories of former ABCC/RERF employees. This forum marks thesixth such occasion since the forum’s commencement in 2013. Please visit ourpublic website for the archives of past history forums.
Also, we have invited the press to this forum with the goal of releasing
information about our activities. I would like to express my gratitude for theirparticipation.
Today, we have invited Dr. Tamagaki as a speaker; he is accompanied by hisdaughter.
First of all, let me introduce Dr. Tamagaki.
Hired by Hiroshima ABCC in 1949, Dr. Tamagaki was engaged in healthexaminations and research activities as a physician for 16 years, until 1965. In
those days, ABCC and the Japanese National Institute of Health (JNIH) wereconducting research jointly. A branch office of JNIH was established in the ABCC
facility, and Dr. Tamagaki worked as an employee of JNIH. Speaking of August
6th, 1945, Dr. Tamagaki said that although he was in Yamagata Prefecture forevacuation, his home in Hiroshima was only 1.3 kilometers away from thehypocenter. His mother lost her life there, and both his father and sister were1severely injured. As a medical practitioner, his father continued examining manysurvivors, even though he was suffering acute effects of the bombing.
Now, Dr. Tamagaki, please tell us how you arrived at ABCC.
Tamagaki: At first, part of the Hiroshima Red Cross Hospital was leased to establish ABCC,
and the Department of Genetics started to function. Since I was an intern at theHiroshima Red Cross Hospital, I was within close range of the activities of theDepartment of Genetics. I often saw five or six jeeps parked at a square in front of
the hospital, and doctors and nurses got into a jeep as a group to go for house calls.
In those early days, there was great concern that babies born to parents exposed toradiation might have increased incidence of abnormalities. For this reason, ABCC
formed and dispatched medical teams to visit every single house to examine babies.
Doctors only examined visible abnormalities on the body, which meant that newly
graduated doctors without ample clinical experience could be engaged in this paid
job. Many doctors applied for this position as a temporary job and wereimmediately hired. I did not have any difficulties getting this job, either. ABCC
was a joint research institution organized by the Japanese Ministry of Health andWelfare and the U.S. government. I was employed as a Japanese staff person, but I
did the same work as ABCC employees; that is, perform health examinations onnewborns.
Teramoto: Which institute paid more?
Tamagaki: ABCC did. I negotiated with Dr. Maki, branch manager of JNIH, for higher pay. I
started to receive the difference after that.
Teramoto: When visiting the survivors for health examinations, you rode in a jeep with adriver and nurses. Is that correct?
Tamagaki: Yes. In those days, we did not have cars in Japan, so I enjoyed riding in a jeep.
Calling on houses one by one, we presented towels and LUX brand soaps after theexamination, which we think was received favorably. Unlike during a difficult time
I went through later at the Department of Medicine, I was favorably accepted bythe study participants.
Teramoto: I heard that nurses who accompanied you on the examination visits are inattendance today.
Tamagaki: Yes, two of them.
Teramoto: Ms. Minato and Ms. Tanaka. Am I right?
Tamagaki: Yes, they are my fellow members.
Teramoto: I understand that although you were able to conduct research smoothly at theDepartment of Genetics, you had a hard time at the Department of Medicine. Whatkind of hardships did you go through?
Tamagaki: The Department of Genetics completed its mission three years after the thoroughexamination of newborns. After that, physicians were transferred to other hospitals,
but I requested to continue my work at ABCC and was accepted in the Department

2of Medicine.
Teramoto: Unlike the Department of Genetics, where you examined children, you examined
adults at the Department of Medicine. What kind of differences did you notice?
Tamagaki: Working in the Department of Genetics did not require English ability, but at theDepartment of Medicine, we had an American chief and several young American
medical staff together with four or five Japanese doctors. When I first joined, theAmerican physicians used to double-check the survivors after the Japanesephysicians conducted a health examination. Medical reports mailed to them werewritten by us in English and translated into Japanese. I struggled with English andI had a communication problem with American staff in English for a while.

Dr. Tamagaki, the third from right (1954)

Dr. Tamagaki (1962)

Teramoto: You said “communication” as a translation for the Japanese word “ishi.” The
Japanese word “ishi” also means “doctor.” It’s such a nice pun. Anyway, I
understand that people were not taught English in the pre- and war-time periods.
Tamagaki: I actually hated English and scored the lowest mark in English when I was in
middle school. Imagine a person like me being employed by ABCC…. Daily workrequired a lot of effort in the beginning, to say the least. In my opinion, people canmanage to acquire foreign languages if needed, and in fact, I was able tocommunicate in English after a year, which made my work less difficult.
Teramoto: Did you receive lectures or guidance from American doctors?
Tamagaki: The department chiefs at that time were Americans who had been working as
assistant professors or their equivalents at universities in the U.S. My firstdepartmental chief was Dr. Tinsley, a heart specialist from Stanford University. He
helped us improve various techniques including auscultation and blood pressurechecks. There was a big gap between American and Japanese medicine at that time,and everything he provided us proved informative.
Teramoto: Did you find any differences in medical devices?
Tamagaki: I strongly expected that the latest devices in American medicine would be used. On
the contrary, American physicians adhered to diagnostic basics. We learned themost basic clinical examination methods, such as performing percussion andauscultation. Not only that, we made funduscopic examinations for eyes, otoscopic
examinations for ears, examined the throat… We carried out examinations on the3

whole body.
Teramoto: So you mean you learned diagnostics at university in Japan, but those methods
weren’t always conducted in actual examinations.
Tamagaki: What Dr. Tinsley told us to do was surprising, but I am truly grateful to him for
helping us stick to the basics in a strict manner.
Teramoto: We need to understand the situation at that time, that is, that people took a harsh
view of ABCC. However, unlike the criticism that ABCC was only interested inresearch but not in treatment, I learned from the fourth History Forum that
inpatient facilities were established at ABCC for treatment of survivors.
Tamagaki: At that time, there were between 40 and 50 patients suffering from leukemia inHiroshima, but in Japan we did not have any effective drugs to cure the disease.
ABCC had access to newly developed medicine via the American base in the cityof Iwakuni, and they were distributed to patients residing in Hiroshima every week
by Kyoto University graduate Dr. Hoshino, who was studying hematology underDr. Moloney, a renowned American specialist in hematology at the Department ofMedicine. Medicine was distributed free of charge, because it was beingtransported through the U.S. military. I imagine if we had had to pay for themedicine, it would have easily exceeded ABCC’s budget at that time. New
medicine dramatically cured patients with chronic leukemia. I am certain thatJapanese hospitals at that time were grateful for the fact that the leukemia patients
could receive such treatment at ABCC.
There were cases in which study participants were hospitalized on anemergency basis in the ABCC inpatient facilities for acute illness, or we offeredtreatment for people suffering from chronic diseases, such as heart disease or
hypothyroid condition, just like ordinary hospitals. Such stories must be news to
many in the audience. A dispute arose regarding whether this American research
institution prescribing medicine was in conflict with Japanese law. For this reason,a clinic was established, and I served as the nominal director there.
Teramoto: You have just told us that you treated between 40 and 50 patients with leukemia,
but were any patients cured with the new medicine?
Tamagaki: Since leukemia was deemed an incurable disease, the patients weren’t fully cured,
but remission was achieved. In the case of childhood leukemia, the results could beobserved much faster. Some patients recovered after blood transfusions andmedication during hospitalization, but they repeatedly experienced recurrence ofleukemia after a while. However, among these patients was one who received
treatment at ABCC when young, and he was watched with a wait-and-see
approach for five to 10 years. As a result, there was not a recurrence of leukemia,
even after the patient reached 20 years of age. This was the first example of its
kind in Japan. Since then, many patients have been cured, thanks to the great
improvement in treatment for leukemia.
Teramoto: Was it reported in the media?
Tamagaki: I think so, but I am not sure if they reported that ABCC had cured the patient.

4

Teramoto: You worked for ABCC until 1965. A biennial health examination study, which
continues to this day, started about eight years before you left ABCC. Also the Life
Span Study, which is not a health check-up but research on mortality and cancer
incidence among A-bomb survivors, is still being carried out. The participation
rate in the health examination study, which you were also involved in as a doctor,
is as high as 80 percent, and I find this quite significant. Why do you think theparticipation rate increased?
Tamagaki: Once I accompanied a contactor to persuade study subjects to participate in thehealth examinations. At the entrance of the house, they yelled at me, “I have lost
some of my family members in the bombing. How dare you examine people likeus!” The high participation rate of 70% to 80% was attributed largely to the effortsof contactors who convinced such people to participate in the study, and I am
grateful for their work.
Teramoto: I assume dozens of employees were working as contactors in those days. Currently,
both Hiroshima and Nagasaki laboratories have a Clinical Contacting Section
under the Department of Clinical Studies. They make phone calls to the study
subjects and cordially ask them to make a biennial visit to us. I suppose they arenot going through the same kinds of hardships experienced in your days, though.
Tamagaki: At ABCC, 5cc’s of blood was collected. In typical Japanese medical examinations
at that time, only one or two drops of blood were collected and a doctor would
visually count the number of red and white blood cells. This difference triggered
the criticism that we collected more blood than usual and performed healthexaminations without treating patients.
Teramoto: I can imagine your hardship. I would like to have an opportunity to listen to thestories from contactors.
Tamagaki: They carried out instrumental work for advancing ABCC’s research program.
Teramoto: Without knowing what you’ve just mentioned, there seems to have been somecriticism that the survivors were assembled under pressure from the Occupation
Forces, because ABCC was founded in the period of the U.S. occupation.
Tamagaki: That's absolutely not true. I can clearly deny that.
Teramoto: I assumed so. The Occupation period ended in April 1952 and the health study
started in 1958, six years after the end of the occupation period.
By the way, you retired from ABCC in 1965. Were there any reasons forthat?
Tamagaki: My father was over 80 and was still working as a practitioner, but he was getting
run down. I had no option but to succeed him in his work. Even though ABCC
Director Darling at that time urged me to stay, my family circumstances did notallow me to do so.
Teramoto: You were a devoted son to do so. I understand that your father was exposed to5

radiation 1.3 kilometers from hypocenter.
Tamagaki: My mother, who happened to be outside at the time of bombing, was exposed to alarge amount of radiation. She was weakened and passed away three weeks after
the bombing. My younger sister was exposed to radiation near Otemachi
Elementary School, located in front of City Hall. Countless shards of glass stuck inhalf of her body. She lost her hair and had a high fever for many days. Having
overcome all of these challenges, however, she got married and was blessed withchildren and grandchildren. Now, she is living in the countryside of the city of
Sendai by herself and doing well. But even now, she says that pieces of glass fallfrom her body. I am truly impressed by the resilience of people. Of course, I dread
radiation exposure, but at the same time, I am impressed by human strength andresilience.
Teramoto: In 2011, Fukushima experienced a nuclear accident. There are still many people
who are living away from their hometown or worried about radiation effects. With
the purpose of putting research know-how and ABCC/RERF’s studies to good use,
our researchers have become members of a commission established in Fukushima.
In addition, commissioned by the Japanese government, RERF has been
conducting a study on nuclear plant emergency workers for a year and a half.
Tamagaki: According to the newspapers, the dose of radiation inside the reactor was said tohave reached as high as 3,000 to 5,000 mSv. This is equivalent to the dose atTenma-cho, the location of my house at the time of bombing. Radiation dose,
however, is measured by the hour inside the reactor, and in the case of the atomic
bombing, people were exposed to the same amount of radiation in the blink of aneye, which is beyond comparison.
Teramoto: Taking such a difference into consideration, we hope to pursue further research onradiation risk.
Now, let me pass the microphone to those in audience who have questions
for Dr. Tamagaki.
Audience member: Could you tell us about your findings on abnormalities in newborns after
your three years’ of examination experience?
Teramoto: I do not say that we did not detect any abnormalities, but there were no majordifferences between newborns born to A-bombed parents and those who were not.
Audience member: Apart from congenital malformations, when undertaking house calls, did
you encounter any cases in which newborns’ development was delayed as a resultof their parents’ radiation exposure?
Tamagaki: Actually, newborns were not all we examined. It is true that we examinedmiscarried babies at ABCC after maternity hospitals contacted us. I am not sure if
it is appropriate to cite this as an example, but we once dealt with a baby withanencephaly. A hospital could not keep a certain baby with anencephaly who wasstill breathing, so they asked an ABCC physician to take care of it. The doctor
ended up bringing the baby back to the Department of Genetics. I witnessed thebaby sobbing. We could not do anything for a living baby. Eventually, the Director

6found this out, and the physician, I am sorry to say, was fired for bringing back aliving baby.
Audience member: The RERF research, which has been carried out since the establishment ofABCC, is now regarded as a gold standard in the field of radiation risk. As adedicated researcher involved in the study, do you have anything, any message,
you want to pass down to young researchers?
Tamagaki: All I can say is I did everyday work neatly and sincerely; I devoted myself to every
single duty of mine. I thought statistics would play the next important role indeveloping what I had done. I simply passed on the data I had collected throughthe health examinations, which I performed sincerely, without missing anything, tothe Department of Statistics.
Audience member: Thank you very much. You have shared a story of communicating withsurvivors in a sincere manner. Please tell us how you would like young people tocommunicate with survivors, or what they should keep in mind when interactingwith them.
Tamagaki: The basis of ABCC’s research is statistical observation. I believe the statisticians
have consistently collected data without preconceptions. For example, one should
never ask a person if he/she was exposed to radiation when taking a medical
history during a health examination. This is because obtaining information onradiation exposure beforehand influences the performance of an examination.
Without taking radiation exposure into consideration, we examined the study
participants in the same way as other patients. We thus could reflect our data in theresults statistically. ABCC was free from such preconceptions, such as linking
symptoms with a history of radiation exposure.
Teramoto: I think that is truly significant. Health examinations shouldn’t be biased. Your firstanswer to the question tells us that as you made examinations, you stuck to thebasics of scientific research.
By the way, after retiring from ABCC, you continued treating patients atyour clinic in Hiroshima, which you took over from your father. There may evenbe some in today’s audience who were examined by you. Is Tamagaki Clinic stillin business?
Tamagaki: Actually, no. It came to an end when I retired.
Teramoto: I would like to express my respect for all your hard work. I believe RERF is one ofyour homes. Please take good care of yourself and come visit us again. Thank youvery much for sharing stories with us today. (Applause from the audience)
Tamagaki: Thank you. I am grateful to have been provided this opportunity.

7

Mr. Teramoto, left and Dr. Tamagaki

Dr. Tamagaki

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