K A ZUO NAK AMUR A

Ta l k W i t hTA K AO D O I

What Humanity Needs to Builda Sustainable Society in Space
Creating “Human Space Studies” to Elevate
Manned Space Activities in Academia
Kazuo Nakamura

Chairman and CEO, CMIC HOLDINGS, Co., Ltd.

Takao Doi

Astronaut
Graduate School of Advanced Integrated Studies
in Human Survivability, Kyoto University
Professor

More than 50 years have passed since humanity reached outer space. An increasing
number of private companies are engaging in space development, and space is becoming
more familiar to us. What does humanity need to achieve sustainable development in space
going forward? After participating in two flights as an astronaut, Takao Doi created“human space studies” as a research field to empower humanity to achieve sustainable
development in space, and he now teaches at Kyoto University.
CEO Nakamura listened to his experience as an astronaut as well as his philosophy onhuman space studies.

What Humanity Needs to Build a Sustainable Society in Space—Creating “Human Space Studies” to Elevate Manned Space Activities in Academia—

KAZUO NAKAMURA

Talk With

about before, a little bit at a time. I

proceed exactly like how you hadWhile we were waiting to approach thereturned to me quickly, and I could

could observe the Moon’s craters, thetrained, with no surprises?

Spartan satellite, I had some time towalk normally after an hour.

patterns on Mars, Saturn’s rings, andDoi There were no issues. However, Igaze into space without any tasks toNakamura How long does it takeother things that I could not normallywas surprised at how extremely quiet

do. You cannot see the entire Earthbetween coming back to Earth andsee. As a result, I gained more andit was during my first launch. Whenfrom the space shuttle windows, but

going on the next flight?

more knowledge.

you watch a launch, you usually hear athe helmet for extravehicular activities

Doi This varies among people, but inJapan’s research into rockets was alsohuge noise upon ignition that makes

has a field of vision of nearly 140

my case, it took quite a long time.

very exciting for me. On February 11,

the ground shake. The rocket sends

degrees, so I could take in the entire

Since being selected as an astronaut,1970, the team at the University ofout gases at supersonic speeds behind

globe. It was spectacular and beautiful.

it took a whole 12 years for me toTokyo’s Institute of Space andit, so hardly any of the tremors make it

Nakamura How many days did you

Astronautical Science (founded byto the front of the rocket. The

spend in space?

Hideo Itokawa) successfully launchedsolid-propellant rocket engine burns

Doi For each of my two flights, I was

Japan’s first artificial satellite,

for the first two minutes, so it shakes

in space for 16 days.

“Ohsumi,” after a great deal of effort.

like a car driving on a bumpy road, butNakamura What was your schedule

At that time, I was in my third year ofafter these engines are cut away, it islike while you were in space?

junior high school.

quiet with no vibration. G

Doi The first three days or so are theNakamura After completing yourto plans for the International Space

Nakamura So, you were at the most(gravitational acceleration) slowly

busiest. This is because we plan to do

missions in space, how did you feel

Station following a lack of funding

Nakamura First, what prompted you toimpressionable stage of your life?

increased from there, and my bodyall the important missions at the startwhen you landed?

from the US. In the end, it took 11set your eyes on space?

Doi Yes, that’s right. I was deeply

suddenly felt light after 8 minutes 30

in case an accident occurs and we

Doi My mind was buzzing, so I felt fullyears before I went on my second

TAKAO DOI

Retaining a sense of awe
at the unknown

Holding an artiﬁcial
satellite in his hands inspace

TAKAO DOI

have my first flight. The largest reason

Fulﬁlling his goal as anastronaut and setting out
on a new pathfor this was the Challenger accident in1986. For my second flight, the launchof Japanese Experiment Module“Kibo” was delayed due to the
Columbia accident as well as changes

Doi It all started in junior high school

moved when I saw Commander Neilseconds. My body flew up out of myhave to return to Earth.

of energy mentally, but my body feltflight.

when a friend invited me to attend aArmstrong walking on the Moon theseat, and I truly felt my arrival in space.

Nakamura I would imagine thatvery heavy. I would feel dizzy when I

Looking back on those long wait times

solar observation session. I got myprevious year, and I came to love

Nakamura There must be many tasks

unexpected events may lead tostood up, so I sat on a chair andspanning 12 years and 11 years, Iown astronomical telescope to takespace even more after seeing Japanto do as soon as you reach space.

changes in the schedule. Is that thewaited for my body to get acclimatedappreciate the importance of neverphotos of constellations and view thesuccessfully launch a satellite with its

Doi Yes, it is very tough. My first job

case?

to Earth’s 1G environment. At that

stopping my training. It helped me toplanets, and I came to love space. Iown rocket the following year. In highwas to move to the flight deck and

Doi Yes, such a thing often happens intime, I even felt the weight of a single

stay healthy, and it also continued tobecame more and more engrossed.

school, I decided that I would pursue atake a photo of the detachedspace. On my first flight, the mission

pencil was heavy. Thinking about it

prevent my abilities fromNakamura I come from Kofu, and I

career related to space. Ever since, I

propellant tank from the window. Thisthat was our main objective did not go

now, I assume that the gain had been

deteriorating. To continue training,heard that you also lived in Kofu while

have maintained that same sense of

was my first time in microgravity, but I

as well as we had hoped. For thissignificantly reduced with respect toyou need a strong desire to go toin junior high school because of yourawe for space that I felt then.

managed to get a picture while

mission, we needed to release a nearly

the orders sent from my brain to myspace as well as endurance.

bumping against the things around me.

1.5-ton solar corona observation

muscles; the flight lasted 16 days, so I

Nakamura How did you feel when you

satellite named “Spartan” and thendoubt that my muscles had weakened

saw the Earth for the first time?

collect it. However, we failed to launchso much. Because people’s bodies

Doi I still remember it vividly. Afterit with the right trajectory. After many

have no weight in space, it takes veryfinishing changing what I was wearing

discussions on-board and with thelittle force to move. If I exerted myfor the first time on the flight, I

team on Earth, it was decided that we

usual level of force, I could not movefather’s transfer for his work. The Kofu
Basin has lush nature and a particularly
beautiful starry sky at night, doesn’t it?
Doi Yes, for sure. I often think about
why I came to love space. At the time,space was even more of an unknown

Experiencing the joy ofreaching space uponseeing the blue, shining
Earthrealm than it is today. The realm of theNakamura Were you nervous the day

opened the doors to the cargo bay,would retrieve it manually three days

very well. Thus, my brain automaticallyunknown is extremely exciting for kids,

before you first left for space?

and I saw the blue, shining Earth. I waslater as an extravehicular activity.

reduced the gain, thereby letting me

and it gives them a dream to aim

Doi I was confident because I had

struck by how wonderfully beautiful

Nakamura That sounds tough. Did you

move my muscles using only a minimal

toward. They can imagine lots ofcompleted more than a year of

this planet is. At the same time, as I

successfully retrieve it in the end?

degree of force. This is the process ofthings, like what the end of spacetraining alongside my team, and I also

looked at the Earth against theDoi I stood on the cargo bay together

adapting to space. You could say it ismight be like or whether there areknew the space shuttle’s systems very

contrast of the pitch-black spacewith Astronaut Winston E. Scott, andlike switching one’s control system.

lifeforms and civilizations like ours inwell, so I was trained in how tobehind it and saw with my own eyes

the two of us held the Spartan

This switching takes time, so I could

space. When I got my own

respond if an issue occurred. As a

how the Earth’s horizon forms a circle,

satellite from both sides in order tonot switch back immediately when I

astronomical telescope, I started toresult, I wasn’t nervous at all.

it really hit me that I had come toretrieve it. Anything can happen when

got back.

see things that I had never known

Nakamura I see. Did the launch

space, which moved me deeply.

you go to space. (laughs)

However, my sensual perception
KAZUO NAKAMURA

What Humanity Needs to Build a Sustainable Society in Space—Creating “Human Space Studies” to Elevate Manned Space Activities in Academia—

KAZUO NAKAMURA

Nakamura After you finished yourpeople can live on the Moon or Mars on

humanity and human societies.

Thus, measures against viruses willsecond flight, you decided to take aa permanent basis. To this end, we

When I talked to everyone at Kyoto

be a constant challenge fordifferent path instead of remaining anneed not only astronautics, astronomy,

University’s Primate Research Institute,humanity. Our society has become

astronaut. What were you thinking atand space medicine but also research inthey told me about an interesting study

extremely complex, and we maythat time?

economics, law, literature, and art.

by the British anthropologist Robinnow perceive some structural

Doi I had the option to continue

Nakamura I understand human spaceDunbar. Dunbar states that with apes,

weaknesses regarding virus

training as an astronaut, but I decided

studies in the following way: the time

the number of individuals that form acontamination. However, I feel we

may come when humanity needs tostable group is proportional to theirmust bring our minds together andleave the Earth and go to space. In

brain size. By taking this relationshipbuild a society with a structure that

other words, when we consider things

between brain size and the number ofis sound against viruses.

over the long term, we identify theindividuals in a group and applying it to

Our ancestors lived inCutting across multiple
ﬁelds to create “humanspace studies”

to set off in a new direction because I
felt that I had fulfilled my greatest
personal goal of helping build theInternational Space Station.

Talk With

TAKAO DOI

TAKAODOI

I had several choices at that time, such

Nakamura You are now working topossibility that we may encounter ahumans, Dunbar claims that the number“150-person” societies that could

as to return to Japan and instruct

create a new academic field calledchange in the environment wherebyof people who can exist as a groupremain stable as groups. They faced

Neanderthals later went extinct, howastronauts while continuing my“human space studies.” How would

we can no longer live on the Earth, just

without any kind of social system isissues with viruses many times without

did modern humans continue toresearch, or to work at a space venture

you describe this field?

like when humanity shifted its habitat

about 150. This is roughly equivalent tothe benefits of the latest science, andsurvive? It is certainly true that vaccinescompany. In the end, I took theDoi When I started to work at Kyoto

from the plains to the savanna

the number of people to whom we send

they prevailed each time, so there isand medicines are necessary to fightposition of Chief of the Space

University in 2016, I wanted to teach thefollowing a loss of forests. What really

New Year’s greeting cards. It is certainlycertainly an answer therein. This is notviruses that pose a threat to humans,

Applications Section of the United

fields that I knew best. The first ideas I

piques my interest here is the fact thattrue that we can remember people’sa pipe dream at all.

but how should we approach theNations Office for Outer Space Affairs

thought of were astronautics andyou are taking on the challenge ofnames and faces and maintain close

Nakamura When you say the word

wisdom that has helped us to survive?

in September 2009. I knew a lot about

astronomy. However, anyone can teachcultivating plants in space. Plants arerelationships in a group of about 150.

“society,” people commonly think of a

By thinking about these questions, wespace through my activities as anthese topics; I thought about what I

essential for people to live on Earth,Thus, the first human society to belarge metropolis where people live

may be able to develop the power toastronaut, but at the same time I felt

could teach that no one else could, andand this necessity remains true informed in space may have 150 people

densely together, but it is important tocoexist with COVID-19. Going forward,that I did not know much about theI hit upon manned space activities.

space. I would love for you to continue

living together. Though there arefocus our attention on societies withI believe that we will need to adopt aEarth, which prompted me to apply toHowever, when I tried to actually lecture

research on whether humanity cancertainly many other conditions forabout 150 people who can respectbroad perspective with a focus on

the UN. I did not intend to stay at theabout this topic, I realized that I wasadvance into space and adapt to it,societies to survive besides the number

each other’s individuality andthese points when humans venture into

UN for long, but I was active there for asimply talking about my own

and what type of environment weof people, we incorporate results fromunderstand one another. In this sense,

space in the face of global

total of seven years. My main duty wasexperiences in space and that I had notneed to survive.

primatology in this manner as we pursue

I feel that we can gain many hints byenvironmental changes and manyto encourage people in both

elevated the discussion to the level of

Doi As a matter of fact, at Kyoto

research in human space studies.

thinking about the process of humanother issues. Human space studies

developed and developing countries toacademia. In light of this, I decided that

University I teach within an educationalevolution. Great apes like the gorilla,seeks to build sustainable societies in

use scientific technologies for space—

my work at Kyoto University would be

program that I created to fuse thebonobo, chimpanzee, and others arespace, and this field also offers hints

you could call it educational work.

to make manned space activities into anatural sciences with the humanity andstill alive today alongside Homo

toward breaking free from our current

field of study so that humanity can stepsocial sciences. Let me give one example

sapiens (modern humans). Since many

circumstances. Thank you for taking

out into space.

of an interesting research topic that I amother kinds of humans such as thethe time to talk with me today.

In order to conduct manned spaceworking on now. As I said earlier,KAZUO

MU
NAKA

RA

The hint to beating
the virus is in 150-personsocieties

activities on a continuous

humanity needs to create a society inNakamura With the current COVID-19basis, we must create

space in order to achieve permanent

pandemic, there are concerns regarding

societies on the Moon,development in space. As the first step

drops in psychological well-being. DoMars, and other locations

toward this, we need to think about theyou have any hints from the perspective

away from the Earth. If

necessary conditions for society to existof human space studies that can be ofpeople only move backin space. In this regard, primatology

help in this regard?

and forth between theoffers some hints. Kyoto University has

Doi Interpersonal relationships areEarth, the Moon, andhistorically conducted active research on

extremely important in human spaceMars, this will not expand

primates. By studying the societies ofstudies as well. Even if the current

space development. A

apes—animals that are close to

COVID-19 pandemic subsides, in thesociety must form where

humans—this field aims to understandfuture there will be similar new viruses.