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I MUST object to this. When I originally put forth my version of MastCell and Nightscream's ""argument"", I was told I was not addressing the article, but just babbling on the issue. So, I defended myself that this is directly related to the article and its POV. Then, I was told, that somehow paraphrasing the argument used to push POV is somehow an ""attack"" on the editors!! And that I ""misattributed"" them. Fine, I'll deal with that later. Okay, so let me get this straight. People push a POV on an article. They use specific arguments to justify pushing their POV (the endless bickering over ""scientific consensus"", ""scientific community"", ""facts"", ""who is a scientist"", just read the last 3 years' discussion pages). I come onto this discussion page, and I point out how pathetic their arguments used to push their POV are. When I do this, I am told I am ""not addressing the article to improve it"", and that I'm ""attacking the editors"" (!!) and that if I continue to do this, I will be banned. Whatever. Nightscream said: ""I made none of the ""arguments"" you attributed to me, nor do I recall MastCell doing so either."" But you said: ""It indicates that it is referring exclusively to those who follow the Scientific Method, and not any ol' Tom, Dick and Harry with a contrary opinion and a webpage."" It does not take a ph.d. to figure out that by ""any ol' Tom, Dick, and Harry with a contrary opinion and a webpage"" you mean Duesberg, Perth, David Crowe, AIDS Wiki, and Virusmyth, and all the people associated with them. Hence, by your own words, you are saying that all these people, the ""Tom, Dick, and Harry""'s, are not following the ""scientific method"" and are thus not part of your ""scientific community"". And this is my point. You DEFINE anyone who rejects the hypothesis as necessarily not following scientific method, hence not a member of the scientific community, then claim there's 100% or near 100% agreement in the scientific community that HIV causes AIDS. It's a completely circular argument. 69.45.178.143  "