# 討論
## Chinese
### Pronunciation

* Mandarin
    (Pinyin): tǎolùn
    (Zhuyin): ㄊㄠˇ ㄌㄨㄣˋ
* Cantonese (Jyutping): tou$^2$ leon$^6$
* Hakka (Sixian, PFS): thó-lun
* Eastern Min (BUC): tō̤-lâung
* Southern Min
    (Hokkien, POJ): thó-lūn
    (Teochew, Peng'im): to$^2$ lung$^6$
* Wu (Shanghai, Wugniu): $^5$thau-len
* Mandarin
** (Standard Chinese)
*** Hanyu Pinyin: tǎolùn
*** Zhuyin: ㄊㄠˇ ㄌㄨㄣˋ
*** Tongyong Pinyin: tǎolùn
*** Wade–Giles: tʻao$^3$-lun$^4$
*** Yale: tǎu-lwùn
*** Gwoyeu Romatzyh: taoluenn
*** Palladius: таолунь (taolunʹ)
*** Sinological IPA : /tʰɑʊ̯²¹⁴⁻²¹ lu̯ən⁵¹/
* Cantonese
** (Standard Cantonese, Guangzhou–Hong Kong)
*** Jyutping: tou$^2$ leon$^6$
*** Yale: tóu leuhn
*** Cantonese Pinyin: tou$^2$ loen$^6$
*** Guangdong Romanization: tou$^2$ lên$^6$
*** Sinological IPA : /tʰou̯³⁵ lɵn²²/
* Hakka
** (Sixian, incl. Miaoli and Neipu)
*** Pha̍k-fa-sṳ: thó-lun
*** Hakka Romanization System: to$^ˋ$ lun
*** Hagfa Pinyim: to$^3$ lun$^4$
*** Sinological IPA: /tʰo³¹ lun⁵⁵/
* Eastern Min
** (Fuzhou)
*** Bàng-uâ-cê: tō̤-lâung
*** Sinological IPA : /tʰo³³⁻⁵⁵ l̃ɑuŋ²⁴²/
* Southern Min
** (Hokkien)
*** Pe̍h-ōe-jī: thó-lūn
*** Tâi-lô: thó-lūn
*** Phofsit Daibuun: toylun
*** IPA (Xiamen): /tʰo⁵³⁻⁴⁴ lun²²/
*** IPA (Quanzhou): /tʰo⁵⁵⁴⁻²⁴ lun⁴¹/
*** IPA (Zhangzhou): /tʰo⁵³⁻⁴⁴ lun²²/
*** IPA (Taipei): /tʰo⁵³⁻⁴⁴ lun³³/
*** IPA (Kaohsiung): /tʰɤ⁴¹⁻⁴⁴ lun³³/
** (Teochew)
*** Peng'im: to$^2$ lung$^6$
*** Pe̍h-ōe-jī-like: thó lŭng
*** Sinological IPA : /tʰo⁵²⁻³⁵ luŋ³⁵/
* Wu
** (Northern: Shanghai)
*** Wugniu: $^5$thau-len
*** MiniDict: thau$^去$ len
*** Wiktionary Romanisation (Shanghai): $^2$thau-len
*** Sinological IPA (Shanghai): /tʰɔ³³ lən⁴⁴/
* Middle Chinese: thawX lwon|lwonH
Rime :
| Character | 討 | 論 | 論 |
| Reading # | 1/1 | 2/3 | 3/3 |
| Initial (聲) | 透 (6) | 來 (37) | 來 (37) |
| Final (韻) | 豪 (89) | 魂 (55) | 魂 (55) |
| Tone (調) | Rising (X) | Level (Ø) | Departing (H) |
| Openness (開合) | Open | Closed | Closed |
| Division (等) | I | I | I |
| Fanqie | 他浩切 | 盧昆切 | 盧困切 |
| Baxter | thawX | lwon | lwonH |
| Reconstructions ||||
| Zhengzhang Shangfang | /tʰɑu$^X$/ | /luən/ | /luən$^H$/ |
| Pan Wuyun | /tʰɑu$^X$/ | /luon/ | /luon$^H$/ |
| Shao Rongfen | /tʰɑu$^X$/ | /luən/ | /luən$^H$/ |
| Edwin Pulleyblank | /tʰaw$^X$/ | /lwən/ | /lwən$^H$/ |
| Li Rong | /tʰɑu$^X$/ | /luən/ | /luən$^H$/ |
| Wang Li | /tʰɑu$^X$/ | /luən/ | /luən$^H$/ |
| Bernard Karlgren | /tʰɑu$^X$/ | /luən/ | /luən$^H$/ |
| Expected Mandarin Reflex | tǎo | lún | lùn |
| Expected Cantonese Reflex | tou$^2$ | leon$^4$ | leon$^6$ |
* Old Chinese
    (Baxter–Sagart): /*[t]ʰˤuʔ [r]ˤu[n]|[r]ˤu[n]-s/
    (Zhengzhang): /*tʰuːʔ ruːn|ruːns/
Baxter–Sagart system 1.1 (2014) :
| Character | 討 | 論 | 論 |
| Reading # | 1/1 | 2/3 | 3/3 |
| Modern Beijing (Pinyin) | tǎo | lún | lùn |
| Middle Chinese | ‹ thaw$^X$ › | ‹ lwon › | ‹ lwon$^H$ › |
| Old Chinese | /*[t]ʰˁuʔ/ | /*[r]ˁu[n]/ | /*[r]ˁu[n]-s/ |
| English | examine; denounce | discuss, examine | discussion, discourse |
| Notes for Old Chinese notations in the Baxter–Sagart system: * Parentheses "" indicate uncertain presence; * Square brackets "" indicate uncertain identity, e.g. *[t] as coda may in fact be *-t or *-p; * Angle brackets "<>" indicate infix; * Hyphen "-" indicates morpheme boundary; * Period "." indicates syllable boundary. ||||
Zhengzhang system (2003) :
| Character | 討 | 論 | 論 |
| Reading # | 1/1 | 1/3 | 2/3 |
| No. | 12374 | 8649 | 8656 |
| Phonetic component | 討 | 侖 | 侖 |
| Rime group | 幽 | 文 | 文 |
| Rime subdivision | 1 | 2 | 2 |
| Corresponding MC rime | 討 | 論 | 論 |
| Old Chinese | /*tʰuːʔ/ | /*ruːn/ | /*ruːns/ |
| Notes | 疑肘聲 | | |

### Verb

討論
* to discuss; to talk over
       Nǐ kěyǐ cānyù tāmen de tǎolùn. [Pinyin]
       You can join in their discussion.
       Tāmen xiángxì tǎolùn le zhè jiàn shì, jiéguǒ dáchéng liàngjiě. [Pinyin]
       They discussed the matter in detail, and finally came to an understanding.
       Zhège tǎolùn háishì yóu nǐ lái zhǔchí. [Pinyin]
       You had better host this discussion.
* (literary, of texts) to critically; to examine and rectify a text
    From: The Analects of Confucius, c. 475 – 221 BCE, translated based on James Legge's version
    Zǐyuē: “Wéi mìng: Píchén cǎochuàng zhī, Shìshū tǎolùn zhī, xíngrén Zǐyǔ xiūshì zhī, Dōnglǐ Zǐchǎn rùnsè zhī.” [Pinyin]
    The Master said, "In preparing the governmental notifications, Pi Chen first made the rough draft; Shi Shu examined and discussed its contents; Zi Yu, the manager of foreign intercourse, then polished the style; and, finally, Zi Chan of Dong Li gave it the proper elegance and finish."
    From: c. 4th century, "Pseudo-Kong Anguo" (偽孔安國), Preface to the Book of Documents (《尚書序》). English translation based on the text by James Legge (1879).
    Tǎolùn Fén Diǎn, duàn zì Tángyú yǐ xià qì yú Zhōu. [Pinyin]
    [He] examined and arranged the old literary monuments and records, deciding to commence with Tang and Yu, and to come down to the times of Zhou.
* (literary) to study; to investigate; to research
    From: Wang Chong, Lun Heng (Discussive Weighing), 80 CE, translated based on Alfred Forke's version
    Rú tǎolùn zhī, nǎi xūwàng yě. [Pinyin]
    But if we get to the bottom of it, we find that all this is illusive.

#### Synonyms

* (to discuss):
* 交涉 (jiāoshè)
* 傾／倾 (king$^1$) (Cantonese, informal)
* 協商／协商 (xiéshāng)
* 協議／协议 (xiéyì)
* 口語／口语 (kǒuyǔ) (archaic)
* 商榷 (shāngquè) (chiefly in an academic context)
* 商討／商讨 (shāngtǎo)
* 商談／商谈 (shāngtán)
* 商議／商议 (shāngyì)
* 商量 (shāngliang)
* 接接 (Hokkien)
* 接洽 (jiēqià) (formal)
* 插話／插话 (Hokkien)
* 會談／会谈 (huìtán)
* 槌摃鐵／槌𫼱铁 (Hokkien)
* 比接 (Xiamen Hokkien, Zhangzhou Hokkien)
* 洽商 (qiàshāng)
* 洽談／洽谈 (qiàtán)
* 申論／申论 (shēnlùn)
* 研究 (yánjiū)
* 磋商 (cuōshāng) (formal)
* 磋議／磋议 (cuōyì)
* 磨合 (móhé) (figurative)
* 觸牙／触牙 (Hokkien)
* 言說／言说 (yánshuō) (formal)
* 言論／言论 (yánlùn)
* 言辭／言辞 (yáncí) (literary)
* 計謀／计谋 (jìmóu) (literary)
* 計議／计议 (jìyì) (literary)
* 計較／计较
* 評／评 (píng) (literary, or in compounds)
* 評論／评论 (pínglùn)
* 說／说
* 說合／说合 (shuōhé)
* 說道／说道 (shuōdao) (colloquial)
* 談判／谈判 (tánpàn)
* 談論／谈论 (tánlùn)
* 謀慮／谋虑 (móulǜ) (literary)
* 議／议 (yì)
* 議論／议论 (yìlùn)
* 錦議／锦议 (Hokkien)
* 闡論／阐论 (chǎnlùn) (literary)

#### Derived terms

* 研討／研讨 (yántǎo)
* 討論區／讨论区 (tǎolùnqū)
* 討論會／讨论会 (tǎolùnhuì)
* 討論稿／讨论稿 (tǎolùngǎo)

#### Related terms

* 暢談／畅谈 (chàngtán)
* 聊天 (liáotiān)

#### Descendants

* → Japanese: 討論(とうろん) (tōron)
* → Korean: 토론(討論) (toron)
* → Vietnamese: thảo luận (討論)

## Japanese

Kanji in this term :
| 討 | 論 |
| とう Grade: 6 | ろん Grade: 6 |
| on'yomi ||

### Pronunciation

* (Tokyo) とーろん [tóꜜòròǹ] (Atamadaka –)
* IPA: [to̞ːɾõ̞ɴ]

### Noun

討(とう)論(ろん) • (tōron)
* debate
* discussion

#### Synonyms

* (debate): ディベート (dibēto), 議(ぎ)論(ろん) (giron), 論(ろん)争(そう) (ronsō)
* (discussion): 論(ろん)議(ぎ) (rongi)

### Verb

討(とう)論(ろん)する • (tōron suru) suru (stem 討(とう)論(ろん)し (tōron shi), past 討(とう)論(ろん)した (tōron shita))
* to debate
* to discuss

#### Conjugation

Katsuyōkei ("stem forms") :
| Mizenkei ("imperfective") | 討論し | とうろんし | tōron shi |
| Ren’yōkei ("continuative") | 討論し | とうろんし | tōron shi |
| Shūshikei ("terminal") | 討論する | とうろんする | tōron suru |
| Rentaikei ("attributive") | 討論する | とうろんする | tōron suru |
| Kateikei ("hypothetical") | 討論すれ | とうろんすれ | tōron sure |
| Meireikei ("imperative") | 討論せよ¹ 討論しろ² | とうろんせよ¹ とうろんしろ² | tōron seyo¹ tōron shiro² |
| Key constructions ||||
| Passive | 討論される | とうろんされる | tōron sareru |
| Causative | 討論させる 討論さす | とうろんさせる とうろんさす | tōron saseru tōron sasu |
| Potential | 討論できる | とうろんできる | tōron dekiru |
| Volitional | 討論しよう | とうろんしよう | tōron shiyō |
| Negative | 討論しない | とうろんしない | tōron shinai |
| Negative continuative | 討論せず | とうろんせず | tōron sezu |
| Formal | 討論します | とうろんします | tōron shimasu |
| Perfective | 討論した | とうろんした | tōron shita |
| Conjunctive | 討論して | とうろんして | tōron shite |
| Hypothetical conditional | 討論すれば | とうろんすれば | tōron sureba |
| ¹ Written imperative ² Spoken imperative ||||

#### Synonyms

* (discuss): 話(はな)し合(あ)う (hanashiau)

### References

* ↑ NHK Broadcasting Culture Research Institute, editor (1998), NHK日本語発音アクセント辞典 [NHK Japanese Pronunciation Accent Dictionary] (in Japanese), Tokyo: NHK Publishing, Inc., →ISBN
* 2002, Ineko Kondō; Fumi Takano; Mary E Althaus; et. al., Shogakukan Progressive Japanese-English Dictionary, Third Edition, Tokyo: Shōgakukan, →ISBN.

## Korean

Hanja in this term :
| 討 | 論 |

### Noun

討論 • (toron) (hangeul 토론)
* hanja form of 토론 (“debate, controversy”)

## Vietnamese

chữ Hán Nôm in this term :
| 討 | 論 |

### Verb

討論
* chữ Hán form of thảo luận (“to discuss”).