# Papers of the New Haven Colony Historical Society/Volume 9/Chapter 10/Letters to Gov. Thomas Fitch

Two letters sent by Jared Ingersoll to Thomas Fitch, the governor of the Connecticut Colony, on the subject of the Stamp Act. In the first letter, dated February 11, 1765, he relates the famous speech of Isaac Barré, a member of Parliament who opposed the Stamp Act.
In the second letter, dated March 6, 1765, he tells more about the parliamentary debate on the Stamp Act.
Letters to Gov. Thomas Fitch.
London 11th. Feb: 1765
S$^r$.
Since my last to you, I have been honoured with yours of the 7th. of December, in which you inform me that the Gen$^l$. Assembly have been pleased to desire my Assistance while here in any Matters that may concern the Colony. Be so good, S$^r$., in return as to Assure the Assembly that I have not only a Due Sense of the honour they have done me by placing this Confidence in me, but that I have ever, since my arrival here, from Motives of Inclination, as well as Duty, done every thing in my Power to promote the Colony's Interests.
The principal Attention has been to the Stamp bill that has been preparing to Lay before Parliament for taxing America. The Point of the Authority of Parliament to impose such Tax I found on my Arrival here was so fully and Universally yielded, that there was not the least hopes of making any impressions that way. Indeed it has appeared since that the House would not suffer to be brought in, nor would any one Member Undertake to Offer to the House, any Petition from the Colonies that held forth y$^e$ Contrary of that Doctrine. I own I advised the Agents if possible to get that point Canvassed that so the Americans might at least have the Satisfaction of having the point Decided upon a full Debate, but I found it could not be done, and here before I proceed to acquaint you with the Steps that have been taken, in this Matter, I beg leave to give you a Summary of the Arguments which are made Use of in favour of such Authority.
​The House of Commons, say they, is a branch of the supreme legislature of the Nation, & which in its Nature is supposed to represent, or rather to stand in the place of, the Commons, that is, of the great body of the people, who are below the dignity of peers; that this house of Commons Consists of a certain number of Men Chosen by certain people of certain places, which Electors, by the Way, they Insist, are not a tenth part of the people, and that the Laws, rules and Methods by which their number is ascertained have arose by degrees & from various Causes & Occasions, and that this house of Commons, therfore, is now fixt and ascertained & is a part of the Supreme unlimited power of the Nation, as in every State there must be some unlimited Power and Authority; and that when it is said they represent the Commons of England, it cannot mean that they do so because those Commons choose them, for in fact by far the greater part do not, but because by their Constitution they must themselves be Commoners, and not Peers, and so the Equals, or of the same Class of Subjects, with the Commons of the Kingdom. They further urge, that the only reason why America has not been heretofore taxed in the fullest Manner, has been merely on Account of their Infancy and Inability; that there have been, however, not wanting Instances of the Exercise of this Power, in the various regulations of the American trade, the Establishment of the post Office &c, and they deny any Distinction between what is called an internal & external Tax as to the point of the Authority imposing such taxes. And as to the Charters in the few provinces, where there are any, they say, in the first place, the King cannot grant any that shall exempt them from the Authority of one of the branches of the great body of Legislation, and in the second place say the King has not done, or attempted to do it. In that of Pensilvania the Authority of Parliament to impose taxes is expressly mentioned & reserved; in ours tis said, our powers are generally such as are According to the Course of other Corporations in England (both which Instances by way of Sample were mentioned & referred to by M$^r$. Grenville in the House); in short they say a Power to tax is a necessary part of every Supreme Legislative Authority, and ​that if they have not that Power over America, they have none, & then America is at once a Kingdom of itself.
On the other hand those who oppose the bill say, it is true the Parliament have a supreme unlimited Authority over every Part & Branch of the Kings dominions and as well over Ireland as any other place, yet we believe a British parliament will never think it prudent to tax Ireland. Tis true they say, that the Commons of England & of the british Empire are all represented in and by the house of Commons, but this representation is confessedly on all hands by Construction & Virtually only as to those who have no hand in choosing the representatives, and that the Effects of this implied Representation here & in America must be infinitely different in the Article of Taxation. Here in England the Member of Parliament is equally known to the Neighbour who elects & to him who does not; the Friendships, the Connections, the Influences are spread through the whole. If by any Mistake an Act of Parliament is made that prove injurious and hard the Member of Parliament here sees with his own Eyes and is moreover very accessible to the people, not only so, but the taxes are laid equally by one Rule and fall as well on the Member himself as on the people. But as to America, from the great distance in point of Situation, from the almost total unacquaintedness, Especially in the more northern Colonies, with the Members of Parliament, and they with them, or with the particular Ability & Circumstances of one another, from the Nature of this very tax laid upon others not Equally & in Common with ourselves, but with express purpose to Ease ourselves, we think, say they, that it will be only to lay a foundation of great Jealousy and Continual Uneasiness, and that to no purpose, as we already by the Regulations upon their trade draw from the Americans all that they can spare, at least they say this Step should not take place untill or unless the Americans are allowed to send Members to Parliament; for who of you, said Coll Barre Nobly in his Speech in the house upon this Occasion, who of you reasoning upon this Subject feels warmly from the Heart (putting his hand to his own breast) for the Americans as they would for themselves or as ​you would for the people of your own native Country? and to this point M$^r$. Jackson produced Copies of two Acts of Parliament granting the priviledge of having Members to the County Palitine of Chester & the Bishoprick of Durham upon Petitions preferred for that purpose in the Reign of King Henry the Eigth and Charles the first, the preamble of which Statutes counts upon the Petitions from those places as setting forth that being in their general Civil Jurisdiction Exempted from the Common Law Courts &c, yet being Subject to the general Authority of Parliament, were taxed in Common with the rest of y$^e$ Kingdom, which taxes by reason of their having no Members in Parliament to represent their Affairs, often proved hard and injurious &c and upon that ground they had the priviledge of sending Members granted them—& if this, say they, could be a reason in the case of Chester and Durham, how much more so in the case of America.
Thus I have given you, I think, the Substance of the Arguments on both sides of that great and important Question of the right & also of the Expediency of taxing America by Authority of Parliament. I cannot, however, Content myself without giving you a Sketch of what the aforementioned M$^r$. Barre said in Answer to some remarks made by M$^r$. Ch. Townsend in a Speech of his upon this Subject. I ought here to tell you that the Debate upon the American Stamp bill came on before the house for the first time last Wednesday, when the same was open'd by M$^r$. Grenville the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in a pretty lengthy Speech, & in a very able and I think in a very candid manner he opened the Nature of the Tax, Urged the Necessity of it, Endeavoured to obviate all Objections to it—and took Occasion to desire the house to give y$^e$ bill a most Serious and Cool Consideration & not suffer themselves to be influenced by any resentments which might have been kindled from any thing they might have heard out of doors—alluding I suppose to the N. York and Boston Assemblys' Speeches & Votes—that this was a matter of revenue which was of all things the most interesting to y$^e$ Subject &c. The Argument was taken up by several who opposed the bill (viz) by ​Alderman Beckford, who, and who only, seemed to deny y$^e$ Authority of Parliament, by Col. Barre, M$^r$. Jackson, S$^r$. William Meredith and some others. M$^r$. Barre, who by the way I think, & I find I am not alone in my Opinion, is one of the finest Speakers that the House can boast of, having been some time in America as an Officer in the Army, & having while there, as I had known before, contracted many Friendships with American Gentlemen, & I believe Entertained much more favourable Opinions of them than some of his profession have done, Delivered a very handsome & moving Speech upon the bill & against the same, Concluding by saying that he was very sure that Most who Should hold up their hands to the Bill must be under a Necessity of acting very much in the dark, but added, perhaps as well in the Dark as any way.
After him M$^r$. Charles Townsend spoke in favour of the Bill—took Notice of several things M$^r$. Barre had said, and concluded with the following or like Words:—And now will these Americans, Children planted by our Care, nourished up by our Indulgence untill they are grown to a Degree of Strength & Opulence, and protected by our Arms, will they grudge to contribute their mite to releive us from the heavy weight of that burden which we lie under? When he had done, M$^r$. Barre rose and having explained something which he had before said & which M$^r$. Townsend had been remarking upon, he then took up the beforementioned Concluding words of M$^r$. Townsend, and in a most spirited & I thought an almost inimitable manner, said—
"They planted by your Care? No! your Oppressions planted em in America. They fled from your Tyranny to a then uncultivated and unhospitable Country—where they exposed themselves to almost all the hardships to which human Nature is liable, and among others to the Cruelties of a Savage foe, the most subtle and I take upon me to say the most formidable of any People upon the face of Gods Earth. And yet, actuated by Principles of true english Lyberty, they met all these hardships with pleasure, compared with those they ​suffered in their own Country, from the hands of those who should have been their Friends.
"They nourished up by your indulgence? they grew by your neglect of Em:—as soon as you began to care about Em, that Care was Excercised in sending persons to rule over Em, in one Department and another, who were perhaps the Deputies of Deputies to some Member of this house—sent to Spy out their Lyberty, to misrepresent their Actions & to prey upon Em; men whose behaviour on many Occasions has caused the Blood of those Sons of Liberty to recoil within them; men promoted to the highest Seats of Justice, some, who to my knowledge were glad by going to a foreign Country to Escape being brought to the Bar of a Court of Justice in their own.
"They protected by your Arms? they have nobly taken up Arms in your defence, have Exerted a Valour amidst their constant & Laborious industry for the defence of a Country, whose frontier, while drench'd in blood, its interior Parts have yielded all its little Savings to your Emolument. And beleive me, remember I this Day told you so, that same Spirit of freedom which actuated that people at first, will accompany them still.—But prudence forbids me to explain myself further. God knows I do not at this Time speak from motives of party Heat, what I deliver are the genuine Sentiments of my heart; however superiour to me in general knowledge and Experience the reputable body of this house may be, yet I claim to know more of America than most of you, having seen and been conversant in that Country. The People I beleive are as truly Loyal as any Subjects the King has, but a people Jealous of their Lyberties and who will vindicate them, if ever they should be violated—but the Subject is too delicate & I will say no more."
These Sentiments were thrown out so intirely without premeditation, so forceably and so firmly, and the breaking off so ​beautifully abrupt, that the whole house sat awhile as Amazed, intently Looking and without answering a Word.
I own I felt Emotions that I never felt before & went the next Morning & thank'd Coll Barre in behalf of my Country for his noble and spirited Speech.
However, S$^r$. after all that was said, upon a Division of the house upon the Question, there was about 250 to about 50 in favour of the Bill.
The truth is I beleive some who inclined rather against the Bill voted for it, partly because they are loth to break the Measures of the Ministry, and partly because they dont undertake to inform themselves in the fullest manner upon the Subject. The Bill comes on to a second Reading to-morrow, when ours and the Massachusetts Petitions will be presented & perhaps they may be some further Debate upon the Subject, but to no purpose I am very sure, as to the Stopping or preventing the Act taking Place.
The Agents of the Colonies have had several Meetings, at one of which they were pleased to desire M$^r$. Franklin & myself as having lately Come from America & knowing more Intimately the Sentiments of the people, to wait on M$^r$. Grenville, together with M$^r$. Jackson & M$^r$. Garth who being Agents are also Members of Parliament, to remonstrate against the Stamp Bill, & to propose in Case any Tax must be laid upon America, that the several Colonies might be permitted to lay the Tax themselves. This we did Saturday before last. M$^r$. Grenville gave us a full hearing—told us he took no pleasure in giving the Americans so much uneasiness as he found he did—that it was the Duty of his Office to manage the revenue—that he really was made to beleive that considering y$^e$ whole of the Circumstances of the Mother Country & the Colonies, the later could and ought to pay something, & that he knew of no better way than that now pursuing to lay such Tax, but that if we could tell of a better he would adopt it. We then urged the Method first mentioned as being a Method the people had been used to—that it would ​at least seem to be their own Act & prevent that uneasiness & Jealousy which otherwise we found would take place—that they could raise the Money best by their own Officers &c &c
M$^r$. Jackson told him plainly that he foresaw [by] the Measure now pursuing, by enabling the Crown to keep up an armed Force of its own in America & to pay the Governours in the Kings Goverments & all with the Americans own Money, the Assembles in the Colonys would be subverted—that the Gov$^{rs}$, would have no Occasion, as for any Ends of their own or of the Orown, to call 'Em & that they never would be called to gether in the Kings Goverments. M$^r$. Grenville warmly rejected the thought, said no such thing was intended nor would he beleived take place. Indeed I understand since, there is a Clause added to the Bill Applying the monies that shall be raised to the protecting & Defending America only. M$^r$. Grenville asked us if we could agree upon the several proportions Each Colony should raise. We told him no. He said he did not think any body here was furnished with Materials for that purpose; not only so but there would be no Certainty that every Colony would raise the Sum enjoined & to be oblige$^d$. to be at the Expence of making Stamps, to compel some one or two provinces to do their Duty & that perhaps for one year only, would be very inconvenient; not only so, but the Colonies by their constant increase will be Constantly varying in their proportions of Numbers & ability & which a Stamp bill will always keep pace with &c &c.
Upon the whole he said he had pledged his Word for Offering the Stamp Bill to the house, that the house would hear all our Objections & would do as they thought best; he said, he wished we would preserve a Coolness and Moderation in America; that he had no need to tell us, that resentments indecently & unbecomingly Express'd on one Side the Water would naturally produce resentments on tother Side, & that we could not hope to get any good by a Controversy with the Mother Country; that their Ears will always be open to any remonstrances from the Americans with respect to this bill both before it takes Effect & ​after, if it shall take Effect, which shall be exprest in a becoming manner, that is, as becomes Subjects of the same common Prince.
I acquainted you in my last that M$^r$. Whately, one of the Secretaries of the Treasury, and who had under his Care and Direction the business of preparing the Stamp Bill, had often conferred with me on the Subject. He wanted, I know, information of the several methods of transfer, Law process &c made Use of in the Colony, & I beleive has been also very willing to hear all Objections that could be made to the Bill or any part of it. This task I was glad to undertake, as I very well knew the information I must give would operate strongly in our favour, as the number of our Law Suits, Deeds, Tavern Licences & in short almost all the Objects of the intended taxation & Dutys are so very numerous in the Colony that the knowledge of them would tend to the imposing a Duty so much the Lower as the Objects were more in Number. This Effect I flatter myself it has had in some measure. M$^r$. Whately to be sure tells me I may fairly claim the Honour of having occasioned the Duty's being much lower than was intended, & three particular things that were intended to be taxed, I gave him no peace till he dropt; these were Licences for marriadge—a Duty that would be odious in a new Country where every Encouragement ought to be given to Matrimony & where there was little portion; Commissions of the Justices of peace, which Office was generally speaking not profitable & yet necessary for the good Order and Goverment of the people; and Notes of hand which with us were given & taken so very often for very small Sums.
After all I beleive the people in America will think the Sums that will be raised will be quite Enough, & I wish they may'nt find it more Distressing than the people in power here are aware of.
The Merchants in London are alarmed at these things; they have had a meeting with the Agents & are about to petition Parliament upon the Acts that respect the trade of North America.
What the Event of these things will be I dont know, but am ​pretty certain that wisdom will be proper & even very necessary, as well as prudence & good Discretion to direct the Councils of America. . . . .
I shall hope to see you the beginning of Summer at farthest.
Y$^r$. Most Obedient  Humble Ser$^t$. J: Ingersoll.
Gov$^r$. Fitch
Copy
London 6th. March 1765
Sir
In my last, which was by the last mail to New York, I gave you a particular Account of the reception the American Stamp Bill met with in the house of Commons upon the first bringing of it in. Since that time, in the farther progress of the bill through the House, there have been some farther debates, the most considerable of which was at the second reading of y$^e$. bill, upon the offer of the Petitions from the Colonies against the same. You doubtless know that no Petition can be offered or presented to Parliament but by some Member of y$^e$. house. The first that was offerred was by M$^r$. Fuller a West india Planter in behalf of the Merchants in London trading to America. These Gentlemen it seems are much alarm$^d$. on account of their outstanding Debts in America, which it is said Do not fall short of four Millions Including y$^e$ West Indies. Substance & purport of y$^e$ Petition being opened & stated by M$^r$. Fuller & leave being asked to bring it in, 'twas Strongly Objected to, upon a principle which it seems has long been adopted by y$^e$ House that no petition shall be Received against a Money Bill; this Drew into a Discussion & Consideration How Peremptory this Rule of the House was, how long it had been adhered to, & y$^e$ Grounds & Principles upon which it was founded. Upon the ​whole I think it appears the rule had not been deviated from, for about forty years last past. The Reason of the Rule is said to be y$^e$ Manifest inconvenience that used to arise by Having so much of the time taken up in Hearing the various & allmost innumerable Claims, Reasons & pretentions of y$^e$ many Subjects against being Taxed—& that there was the less reason for hearing Em, against laying a Tax, as it is at the same time an invariable rule that the Subject may Petition for the repeal of a Law Imposing a tax after that tax is laid & Experience had of the Effects, & finally that however reasonable it might be to hear the Americans themselves, there could be no reason for hearing the London Merchants in their behalf.
On the other side it was said, that the rule was not any Order of the House, but merely a practice as founded on Experience & to prevent inconvenience:—that however unreasonable it would be to Admit English Subjects upon every Imposition of a tax to come & be heard upon Petitions against the same, yet even in England it appeared by precedents produced, that when any new species of taxation had been set on foot, particularly the matter of funding, so called, i. e. borrowing of the Subject & paying Interest by various taxes, that Petitions had been admitted against the measure, and also on some other particular and extraordinary Occasions formerly, & that this Case as to America was quite new & particularly hard as they had no Members in the House to speak for them.
Upon the whole the Question being about to be put, M$^r$. Fuller seeing pretty plainly which way it would be carried, withdrew his Petition. Next S$^r$. William Meredith presented one in behalf of the Colony of Virginia; this was drawn up here by their Agent M$^r$. Montegue, but had interwove in it some Expressions of the Assembly of Virginia contained in their Votes & which at least strongly implied their denial of the right of Parliament to tax the Colonies. This drew on a pretty warm debate. M$^r$. Yorke the late Attorney General Delivered himself in a very long Speech in which he endeavoured to evince that the Kings Grants contained in the Charters to some, & in the Commissions to the Governors in the other Colonies, could, ​in their natures, be no more than to answer particular local & Provincial purposes & could not take the People in America out of y$^e$ General & Supreme Jurisdiction of Parliament &c &c. The General Rule of the House against Receiving Petitions against money bills was also again urged;—on the other Side I think no-body but General Conway Denied the right of Parliament to tax us; this to be sure he did in y$^e$ most Peremtory manner & urged with Great Vehemence y$^e$ many Hardships & what he was Pleased to Call Absurdities y$^t$ would follow from the contrary Doctrine & practice; y$^e$ Hardships & Inconveniences were also again urged & placed in various lights by our other Friends in the House. And here I would remark y$^t$ in y$^e$ whole Debate first & last Alderman Beckford & G$^l$. Conway were y$^e$ Only Persons who Disputed y$^e$ right of Parliament to tax us. This is the same G$^l$ Conway who was Dismissed from all his offices just at Close of y$^e$ last Sessions for his Continual opposition to all the Measures of the Present Ministry; & here I find myself Obliged to say y$^t$ Except y$^e$ Gentlemen Interested in y$^e$ West Indies & a few Members y$^t$ happen to be Particularly connected with some of the colonies & a few of the heads of the minority who are sure to athwart & oppose y$^e$ Ministry in Every Measure of what Nature or kind soever, I say Except these few Persons so Circumstanced there are Scarce any People here, Either within Doors or Without, but what approve the Measures now taking which Regard America. Upon the Whole the Question being put Whether the House would Receive y$^e$ Petition, it Passed in the Negative by a great Majority. Then M$^r$. Jackson offered ours which met with the same Fate. He then acquainted y$^e$ House y$^t$ he had one to offer for y$^e$ Massachusets Colony, which however as it respected as well the late act called the Sugar act as the present, & seeing which way the same would be governed he told the house he would defer it till another Time; & here I ought not to omit to acquaint you that M$^r$. Charles, Agent for N. York, had received a Petition from his Constituents with orders to present the same, but which was conceived in terms so inflammatory that he could not prevail on any one Member of the House to present it. ​I forgot to mention that M$^r$. Garth, a Member of the House, offered one for S: Carolina for which Colony he is Agent, which met with the same fate with the Rest. The other Agents seeing the point thus ruled, I suppose thought it to no purpose to offer any more.—It is about 4 Days since the Bill passed through all the necessary forms in the house of Commons & is now ready & lies before the Lords for their Concurrence; it is to take place the first Day of November next. As to the other regulations which regard America that either have taken place or are intended so to do, this session, they are as follows:—first of all the Stamp Duty which by the bill was laid on all Salaries which Exceed £20, upon a strong representation that the Judges Salaries in America in general are very low, is dropt out of the Bill. The Courts of Admiralty have been complained of as not only infringing on English Lyberty by taking away trials by Jury, but as being so placed as to take people for trial from one End of America almost to the other. As to the first of these Objections they say here that there is no safety in trusting the breach of revenue laws to a Jury of the Country where the Offence is committed, that they find even in England they never can obtain Verdicts where Smugling is practised & therfore always bring the Causes up for trial to London. To remedy the Second tis determined to have three Judges Extraordinary sent from England,—to be placed, one at Boston (by removing to that place y$^e$ one now at Halifax), y$^e$ others to be at N York & Philadelphia, or at Philadelphia & Charles Town; the Persons to be able men bred at Doctors commons, with a Salary Each of £800 Per Annum, to be peremtorily forbid Taking any Fees Whatsoever, to have Jurisdictions concurrant with y$^e$ other Judges of Admiralty in America, that is an ordinary Jurisdiction the same with them, and also an Extraordinary one, of Hearing whatsoever causes shall be Brought before them by appeal from y$^e$ other admiralty Judges; all Prosecutions for y$^e$ breach of revenue laws to be either in the courts of common law or courts of Admiralty, at y$^e$ Election of y$^e$ Prosecutor; & if brought before a court of Admiralty to be before a Judge in the Colony where ​y$^e$ offence is Committed, or if at Sea to y$^e$ Next, that is to the nearest in Point of Distance; y$^t$ y$^e$ fees of Office in y$^e$ custom Houses shall be all fixt & be y$^e$ same in All; that an Alteration in y$^e$ late act shall be made, giving a liberty of Carying Lumber Directly to Ireland & also to any Parts of Europe South of Cape Finisterre. A farther alteration has been Ask'd, viz. of liberty to cary wine, fruit & oil directly from Portugal & Spain &c to America, and to suffer a Draw back upon forreighn Sugars upon Reexportation to Europe, as also an Abatement of y$^e$ Duty upon Molases, but these are at present Denied:—the first from a fear y$^t$ y$^e$ Duty upon y$^e$ Wines will not be paid in America, there not having as yet been time for a full proof of y$^e$ Punctuality of y$^e$ Custom-Houses there; y$^e$ 2$^d$ because of Great Frauds being Generaly practiced in y$^e$ Cases of Draw back upon reexportation; and y$^e$ 3$^d$ because there has not been Sufficient Experience of what duty y$^e$ Molases will bear. Some Alterations also tis said will be made with Regard to y$^t$ Strictness that is required in y$^e$ Matter of Cockets for Every article of Goods caryed Coastwise &c. These I believe are y$^e$ principal regulations that relate to America, that may be expected to take place this Session,—And here as well to do Justice to the Minister M$^r$. Grenville as to the Comparative few who have interested themselves in the Concerns of America, I beg leave to say that I think no pains have been spared, on the one Side in behalf of America to make the most ample & strong representation in their favour, & on the other on the part of the Minister to hear patiently, to listen attentively to the reasonings & to Determin at least seemingly with coolness & upon principle upon the several Measures, which are Resolved on.
I have no need to tell you that in modern times convincing the Minister is convincing the House here, Especially in matters of Revenue.—I forgot one Article viz. the Post Office, y$^e$ fees of which tis said are to be lowerd in America.
And now S$^r$. in order to give you, in the best manner I am able, an Idea of the Conferences, Sentiments & reasonings upon these Subjects, on this Side the Water, you will be pleased to Imagine to yourself a few Americans with the Minister, or any ​other on that part, and after much time spent in Enquiry, various observations & remarks, he saying to them as follows, You will be pleased, laying aside all consideration of past Services on your Part or on ours, they have both been very great, to consider what is y$^e$ present state of things; there is an immense national Debt, not less than one hundred & forty Millions Lying heavy on this Nation, for which an annual interest is paid; by the best informations we can get the whole of the publick Debt now in arrear of all the Colonies together is about Eight Hundred Thousand pounds. The Civil Establishment here for the Support of Government is Eight hundred thousand pounds a Year—that of all the Colonies together we find to be about forty thousand pounds p$^r$. annum only. You say you are comparatively poor to what we are; tis difficult measuring this point, but however opulent some in these Kingdoms are tis well known the many can but just live. The Military & naval Establishment here is immense, but without considering that, the amount of the Expence of the Army now placed in America & which is thought quite Necessary, as well on Account of the troubles with the Indians as for general defence against other nations & the like in so Extensive a Country, is upwards of three hundred thousand pounds a Year. We shall be glad to find that the Stamp Duty now laying on America shall amount to forty or fifty thousand pounds, & that all the Duties together, the post Office & those laid upon Molasses & other ways shall amount to one hundred thousand pounds a Year, so that there will not only not be any money brought away from America by means of these Duties, but there will be a ballance of more than two hundred thousand pounds sent over every year from England to be spent in America. You say the Colonies think they can, & that they are willing to do something in the Common Cause;—is this too much? we think it is not, but if on trial we find it is, we will certainly lessen it. As to our Authority to lay these Duties or taxes—to us tis so clear a point that to be sure we dont care to have a Question made of it. And dont you yourselves even want to have us Exercise this Authority in your turn? dont some of you Complain, & perhaps very justly, ​that in the late war, while some of you did much, others did but little or perhaps nothing at all—and would not that be the Case again was you left to Defend yourselves? No doubt it would, unless you were Erected into one power by a Union of the whole, but that is a measure we dont think you yourselves, was you in our Steads would think adviseable; and there are many reasons why you should wish not to have the Country Defended by your own Children. A Soldiers life is not only a life of Danger, but in a proper Sense is a base life, whereas you have all a Chance in that opening Country to raise your families to be considerable in time by a diligent Attention to your natural and proper business.
To all this the Americans answer, truly S$^r$. we must own there is a weight in your Arguments & a force in your reasonings—but after all we must say we are rather silenced than convinced. We feel in our bosoms that it will be for ever inconvenient, 'twill for ever be dangerous to America that they should be taxed by the Authority of a British parliament by reason of our great distance from you; that general want of mutual knowledge & acquaintance with each other,—that want of Connexion & personal friendship, & we without any persons of our own Appointing, who will have any thing to fear or hope from us, to speak for us in the great Council of the nation—we fear a foundation will be laid for mutual Jealousy and ill will, & that your resentments being kindled you will be apt to lay upon us more & more, even to a Degree that will be truly grievous & if that should be the Case that twill be hard under all the Circumstances, very hard to convince you that you wrong us, & that unknown & very unhappy Consequences will Ensue.
To this the Minister Replies:—
Come, suppose your Observations are entirely Just, & indeed we must own there are inconveniences attending this matter; what then is to be done? perhaps you will say let the Colonies send Members to Parliament; as to that in the first place the Colonies have not told us that they desire such a thing, & tis easy to see there are many reasons why they should not desire it. The Expense would probably be very great to 'Em; they ​could not Expect to be allowed to have a Majority of Members in the house, and the very inconveniencies which you urge with regard to the people in America would in many respects & to a Degree take place with regard to their Members. What then? Shall no Steps be taken & must we and America be two distinct kingdoms & that now immediately, or must America be Defended entirely by us, & be themselves quite excused or be left to do just what they shall please to do? Some perhaps will do something & others nothing. Perhaps from the nature of our Situations it will happen & must be Expected that one Day we shall be two distinct Kingdoms, but we trust even you wont say you think yourselves ripe for that Event as yet. You are continually increasing in numbers & in strength; we are perhaps come, at least, to our full growth. Let us then leave these possible Events to the disposal of providence. We own on our part we dont choose to predict, nor yet to hasten the time of this supposed period, & think it would be to our mutual disadvantage for us to attempt a separation.
Let us then, instead of predicting the worst, hope that mutual Interest as well as duty will keep us on both Sides within the bounds of Justice. We trust we shall never intentionally burden you unreasonably; if at any time we shall happen to do it by Mistake, Let us know it & I trust it will be remedied. You find & I trust always will find an easy Access to those who from their Office have the principal Conduct of Revenue Laws, and we on our part find with pleasure that America is not destitute of persons, who at the same time that they have the tenderest regard for their Interests are well able to Represent to us their Affairs & who if they do it with integrity & Candor, will be sure to meet with our fullest Confidence. Let mutual Confidence and mutual Uprightness of intention take place & no considerable Ills can follow.
As to any reflections upon the matter I choose rather to leave them to you than attempt to make them myself, & am S$^r$. with great Esteem
Y$^r$. most Obedient Most Humble Ser$^t$.  J. Ingersoll
​P S March 9
There is now strong application making for an Act of Parliament, for a bounty on various kinds of timber, plank & boards imported, to which the Minister seems to lend a favourable Ear.
Tis said that it is intended to give the business of Collecting & paying the Stamp Duty to Americans in the respective Colonies.
I am not without some hopes of having the pleasure of seeing you at Hartford before the rising of the Assembly in the May Sessions, having taken my passage in the Boscowen Capt Jacobson bound to Boston & who expects to sail the beginning of April.
J. I.
Gov$^r$. Fitch
Copy
* ↑ [Note added by Mr. Ingersoll, on publishing this letter in 1766.] I believe I may claim the Honour of having been the Author of this Title, however little personal Good I have got by it, having been the only Person, by what I can discover, who transmitted Mr. Barre's Speech to America.
* ↑ Agent for South Carolina and Georgia.
* ↑ The present letter, as well as the succeeding one, is printed in Mr. Ingersoll's Letters relating to the Stamp Act; but is here taken from the manuscript copy among his papers.
* ↑ See below, p. 421.