# Report from the Select Committee on Steam Carriages/Ogle

Mr. Nathaniel Ogle, called in; and Examined.
What is your profession?—I have no profession; I am pursuing the introduction of locomotive Engines on common roads.
​Hare you invented any Carriage of this description actually now in practice?—Yes, partly so.
Have you run your Carriage for any length of time on public roads?—About: 800 miles, or rather more, over roads of various descriptions, and up lofty hills.
Will you describe generally the nature of your Carriage, and of any improvements you have made, since you first turned your attention to the subject?—The object in all locomotive vehicles is to obtain a mode of generating steam that shall give the command of a sufficient power; under all, varying circumstances to be met with on the common roads. We have obtained that desideratum; by combining the greatest heating surface: in the least possible space, with the strongest mechanical force, so that we work our present boiler at 250 lbs, pressure of steam on the inch, with the most perfect safety. Our experimental vehicle, weighing about three tons, or rather more, we have propelled from London to Southampton, and on the roads in the vicinity of Milbrook, at various speeds. The greatest velocity we obtained, over rather a wet road, with patches of gravel upon it, was between 32 and 35 miles an hour, and might have been continued under similar circumstances; and we could, on a good road, have increased that velocity to 40 miles. We have ascended a hill, with a soft wet bottom; rising one foot in six, at rather a slow rate. We have ascended one of the loftiest hills in the district near Southampton, at 16½ miles an hour. We have gone from the turnpike-gate at Southampton to the four mile stone on the London road, a continued elevation; with one very slight descent; at a rate of 24½ miles an hour, loaded with people. The locomotive vehicles used on the Liverpool and Manchester Railroad would not go at three miles an hour on a common level roads, and would pot ascend any hill; and on account of the diameter of their boilers, cannot, scientifically speaking, be considered safe. The vehicle is under perfect control in every respect. No accident from explosion can take place. We have had whole families of ladies, day after day, out with us in all directions, and who have the most perfect confidence. We are ​now, upon the point of establishing a factory where these vehicles will be made in numbers, and a great many are already required by coach-proprietors, carriers of merchandize, and others, for their use on the public roads. Railroads, excepting in very peculiar situations, are behind the age, and it is my decided opinion, that those who embark capital in constructing them will be great losers.
Will you describe the form of your boiler?—The base of the boiler and the summit are composed of cross pieces, cylindrical within, and square without; there are holes bored through these cross pieces, and inserted through the hole is an air tube. The inner hole of the lower surface, and the under hole of the upper surface, are rather larger than the other ones. Round the air-tube is placed a small cylinder, the collar of which fits round the larger aperture on the inner surface of the lower frame, and the under surface of the upper frame-work. These are both drawn together by screws from the top; these cross pieces are united by connecting pieces, the whole strongly bolted together, so that we obtain in one-tenth of the space, and with one-tenth of the weight, the same heating surface and power as is now.obtained in other and low pressure boilers, with incalculably greater safety. Our present experimental boiler contains 250 superficial feet of heating surface in the space of 3 feet 8 inches high; 3 feet long; and 2 feet 4 inches broad, and weighs about 800 weight: We supply the two cylinders with steam, communicating by their pistons with a crank axle to the ends of which either one or both wheels are affixed as may be required. One wheel is found sufficient; excepting under very difficult circumstances, and when the elevation is about one foot in six, to impel the vehicle forward.
Have you taken out a Patent for this invention?—We have, in the name of William Alltoft Summers and Nathaniel Ogle.
You state that the weight of that Carriage is about three tons or more, is that independent of the necessary load?—That will include the coke and the water, but not the passengers.
​Have you any peculiar means for rendering explosion impossible?—Yes; the cylinders of which the boilers is composed are so small as to bear a greater pressure than could be produced by the quantity of fire beneath the boiler, and if any one of these cylinders should be injured by violence, or any other way, it would become merely a safety valve to the rest.—We never with the greatest pressure even burst, rent, or injured our boilers, and has not once required cleaning after having been in use twelve months.
Is the connexion between your different cylinders so perfect, that there is no danger of the steam collecting in one particular point of it?—There is a perfectly free communication, and not the least danger to be apprehended.
Have you one or two safety valves?—Two.
At what pressure do you usually work your Carriage?—Two hundred and forty-seven pounds on the square inch of the boiler, but we have worked it at a greater pressure than that.
To what pressure do you usually weight your safety valve?—Two hundred and forty-seven pounds.
Then you travel always on the lift?—Yes; we are always glad to see our steam blowing off, and when our fire is even moderately good it is always blowing off, even up the steepest hills, proving an excess of power.
Does that create any annoyance to passengers along the road?—None whatever; the waste steam is carried round a double casing of the fire-place, then brought over the surface of the fire where some portion is consumed, and the rest passes off through a very small chimney in an aeriform state.
Do you use coal or coke?—Soft and good coke which easily ignites and burns rapidly.
You have not any annoyance then to passengers from smoke from your Carriages?—None whatever; there is no appearance of smoke except on lighting the fire with wood, which is necessary to ignite the coke.
That takes place before you start?—Yes; but even that will not be necessary when every thing is arranged.
​You state that your Carriage is under the most perfect control?—Perfect.
Supposing you were going at the rate of ten miles an hour on a level toad, in what number of feet do you suppose you could entirely check the Carriage?—It would be difficult, to state precisely the number of feet, but certainly in a less space than you could stop a pair of carriage horses going with the same weight attached to them. I have no hesitation in saying, that a steam vehicle is safer in every respect than one with horses, that it is under more complete management at the same velocities and with the same weight, that it is more easily controlled, and that none of the accidents from fractious horses can take place with Steam Carriages.
Do you find that horses are generally frightened by passing your Carriage?—Very few indeed, persons usually alarm their own horses (the animal being quickly subject to alarm) either by dismounting, or patting them, and thus anticipating apprehension.
What rate of toll has been charged on your Carriage in the neighbourhood of Southampton?—None, whatever. I have paid near London, when trying experiments, a shilling or two, and I made no inquiry. I remember, going out of London, throwing one man a shilling, and another two, being too much occupied to trouble myself about the matter.
You pass through turnpikes in travelling round Southampton?—Yes.
What is the reason they have not charged you?—I do not know, unless they had the good sense to see that we rather do good to the road than injury.
Do you know on what authority they levy tolls on Carriages?—I know of only two instances in which they have been levied on Steam Carriages, one at Hammersmith Bridge, and the other at Cambridge Heath, near Hackney.
If toll collectors at Southampton abstain from demanding tolls, is it not because they had not authority to demand them?—I do not know their motive.
You think that the toll collector is so interested in the good state of the road that he would abstain from ​demanding toll on that ground?—I think, that if they have contracted to keep the road in repair, they would be glad that Steam vehicles should run upon that road in preference to Carriages drawn by animals, because the wheels of Steam Carriages, if the tires are of a proper breadth, act as rollers.
Do you know.whether the toll collectors in general, contract for keeping the road in repair?—I do not know.
Do you know any instance of it?—No. I do not.
Have you beard any complaint by contractors of the injury done to roads from your Carriages?—No.
Nor from the surveyors of roads?—No.
What is the breadth of the tires of your wheels?—About three inches.
Could you increase the tire of your wheels without inconvenience?—Certainly.
To what breadth?—With a given weight there might be given breadths, in my opinion a vehicle carrying four tons weight, the engine itself weighing three tops, should have a tire about four inches and a half in breadth, a flat tire, not a round-tire, and the wheels should be cylindrical. It is decidedly to the interest of Steam Coach proprietors to have the tires broad, as the wheels have a diminished, tendency of sinking into the road.
Should they be increased according to the weights?—Yes; but I do not think that we have knowledge enough to speak precisely on that subject, and to go into minute details as to the exact breadth which should bear a given weight.
Taking either an increased or a diminished weight, what would be the increased or diminished: breadth of wheels which you would recommend?—I am not prepared to answer that minutely.
Is it your opinion, that in case they exceed three tuns weight, that wheels, three inches wide, improve the road, passing with the velocity, they do?—Certainly; the velocity has nothing to do with the wear of the road.
How many wheels have you?—Our-present Carriage has only three, so that the centre wheel rolls ​that portion of the road which has been cut up by the action of the horses' feet.
Is it of the same breadth as the two hind ones?—It is broader, being four inches and a half.
Is the centre wheel a guiding wheel?—It is.
What portion of weight is upon that as compared with the others?—That must vary a little, but generally about one-third.
Is yours a coach?—No, it is a treble-bodied phæton.
How many passengers have you carried when you have gone at the rates you have described?—I think I have seen nineteen; weight is of no importance to a steamer.
Taking the weight of your Carriage, with the Engine, at three tons; what weight do you suppose that you could carry at the rates you have spoken of?—Between three and four tons, very well.
Besides its own weight?—Yes.
Doubling its own weight?—Yes; twenty people will weigh more than a ton and a half.
For what distance do you travel without taking in water?—We can increase our capability to a great extent; at present, we carry about seven hundred weight of water; it lasts about forty minutes; that depends on the quality of the road.
How much coke?—The quantity we carry as according to the distance we wish to go.
What weight of fuel would you think it necessary to take in, to go one of your average stages?—Three bushels.
How much does a bushel weigh?—That is difficult to answer, coke differs in its weight; the average weight is about forty pounds a bushel.
What proportion of injury do you think one of your Steam Carriages does to the road in comparison with the injury done by a Coach drawn by horses proceeding with the same velocity?—Not one-half; first of all they receive no injury from the feet of the horses; a horse must have something to hold by, and the action of a horse's foot is to scrape and dig up the ground. Vehicles drawn by horses of equal weight, have ​usually narrower wheels, which must increase the injury done to the road.
Are your wheels dished, or are they cylindrical?—Cylindrical, with flat tires.
What are the diameters of your propelling wheels?—We have generally used them about six feet; those we have now are about five feet six.
Have you changed the diameters from experiment, from finding the smaller diameter more convenient?—From finding some wheels with the spokes cut through, whether intentionally by the workmen, or from mere neglect, we could not tell; but they were merely reduced from six feet to five feet six.
For a Carriage calculated to carry eighteen persons, what would be the length, and what the breadth?—I think that our next will measure eighteen feet six; that is not so long as a Carriage with two horses: the breadth six feet nine inches between the wheels.
During the course of your experience have you met with any accident, such as the breaking of your machinery?—None whatever of any denomination; not one bolt, not one screw has ever given way, during a period of twelve months, and under circumstances which would have utterly destroyed any other Carriage, and very much to the surprise of engineers, who are sadly uninformed on all points relative to Steam Coaches, and have never advanced their success.
In the improvements you are now engaged upon in your Carriage, are they relative to the size and weights of the different parts, or merely in the conveyance of the goods and passengers?—They are more in improving slight details; the power we have, beyond all question, to propel vehicles of any weight, at any required velocity.
Have you made many experiments as to the size of your cylinder?—We have made several experiments.
In reference to the usual velocity you require, and the weight you have to carry, what do you find the most advantageous size of cylinder?—The larger the cylinder, certainly, the better; but were I to give definite answers to such questions, it would be giving too much information to those opposed to us.
​What is the greatest weight that any Steam Engine you have ever built is capable of carrying ten miles an hour?—About three tons, in addition to its own weight. The majority of the London engineers treated our opinions, founded on the laws of nature and experiment, with contempt and ridicule, and were amazed at witnessing the vigour of our Engines, and the velocity with which we left the factory in Cable-street. Whitechapel, and proceeded towards Southampton.
Have you ever ascertained that that Carriage, when loaded, weighs six tons?—No never.
What was the greatest weight you ever weighed?—We never weighed it at all. I can only speak from conjecture. I have seen nineteen persons on and seven cwt, of water.
At what rate did you travel with that load?—We went with that load up a considerable ascent, about thirteen miles from Southampton. I should think, about from a quarter to half a mile. We travelled about ten miles an hour.
How did you ascertain that rate; did you make accurate observations at the time?—We know pretty accurately, by observation, at what rate we are going; but we can ascertain with the greatest minuteness, by knowing the number of revolutions made by a wheel of a certain diameter.
When you were conveying those nineteen persons, how many horse power do you suppose was exerted by your machinery?—Nearly twenty horse power.
You have stated that your Carriages do not do injury to roads, but are rather a benefit, subsequently you have said that your Carriages did not do half the injury of common Carriages?—Yes; if the tire of the wheel was very broad it would be no injury.
Do you know the ordinary breadth of the tire of a Stage Coach wheel?—About two inches or two and a quarter, varying a little.
Do you know the weight of a Stage Coach, with its compliment of eighteen passengers?—Three tons.
What particular Coach do you refer to?—The ​Telegraph from London to Southampton, with its full load, has been reported to me, by its proprietors, to weigh about three tons.
What would be the weight of your machine when loaded?—Three tons beside its load.
What do you suppose the nineteen passengers weighed?—A ton and a half certainly.
The breadth of your tire is three inches?—Yes.
From your observation of the effect of a Coach weighing three tons, and a two and a quarter inch tire, going along a road, seeing the impression made upon the roads, and witnessing your own Carriage, weighing four tons and a half, with a three-inch tire, what is the relative indentation or injury done to the road?—Not greater as far as I have ever been able to observe.
Is it as great?—I think not as great.
Independent entirely of the injury that the four horses do to the road?—Just so. Independent of that entirely.
Can you suggest any mode by which Tolls shall be fairly charged on Steam Carriages?—I should say by their weight, with a deduction in favour of the Steam Engines, inasmuch as they do not the same degree of injury to the road as a vehicle drawn by horses.
Do you think that the injury done by four horses on a road is greater than the injury done by the four wheels of the same Carriage?—Decidedly.
Upon what data do you state that opinion?—Because the animal must hold on as he goes, if he has a great weight behind him he must hold tighter than if he merely carries his own weight; I do not know the number of strokes that a horse's foot must have gone in an hour, but it is a great number, and where there are four horses those must be multiplied, and this on a road moistened by the rain must make great indentations and tear up the surface, the transit being continuous, the road must suffer more than from the mere pressure of the tire over it.
Do you state that as your opinion merely, or as the result of your observation and practice?—As the ​result of my observation and practice, and also from Mr. Nathaniel the deductions of reason.
Where have you made those observations?—In going about on horseback, in my own steam vehicle, and my own carriage. I have observed the manner in which the road has been cut up. I have also observed the road, after it has been passed over by a steam vehicle, and have seen that part of the road we found injured by the horses' feet rolled over by the middle wheel.
In what state was the road at the time?—Rather wet.
Were the materials recently laid down, or consolidated?—There were patches of gravel; and there the Steam Carriage was a decided advantage.
Was it of more advantage than the wheel of an ordinary Carriage?—Yes, decidedly so.
Do you conceive that the injury done by horses' feet is in the wearing of materials, or the displacing materials?—In both.
What is the nature of the injury which the wheel does?—The wheel always forms for itself a hill, and that hill is in exact proportion to the indentation.
Do you mean to say that the hill is formed by the displacing materials?—Yes, there is a line, of the materials of which the road is composed, on both sides of the tire.
If a road is properly constructed, will that take place?—The harder the road the less the indentation.
Have you paid much attention to the construction of roads?—Not much.
Will you state more definitely the nature of the injury you have seen in regard to the effect of the horses' feet, in comparison to that of the wheels of Carriages?—First of all they displace at every blow, they tear up, and throw the surface behind them; whereas the wheel only rolls as it goes, and throws some portion on both sides of it, if the road is soft.
Do you know from your own knowledge how much the crust of an ordinary road round London will bear?—No; it depends so much upon the nature of the road.