# Familiar Colloquies/Things and Words

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THINGS AND WORDS.
Beatus and Boniface.
Be. God bless you, Boniface. Bo. And God bless you heartily, Beatus. But I wish we were both of us answerable to our names you rich and I handsoma Be. Why, then, do you account it so small a matter to have a great name 1 ? Bo. Indeed I make very small account of the name unless there be the thing too. Be. But most men are of another mind. Bo. Perhaps they may be mortals, but I don't take them to be men. Be. Nay, good man, they are men, unless you think there are now-a-days camels and asses in the shape of men. Bo. I should sooner be of that mind, than believe that they can be men who had rather have ​THINGS AND WORDS. 307 the name than the thing itself. Be. In some sort of things, I confess, that many had rather have the thing than the name ; but in many things it is quite the contrary. Bo. 1 don't very well take you in. Be. We have an example of it in ourselves. You are called Boniface, and you have what you are called ; but if you were to be deprived of either of them, had you rather have an ugly face or be called Cornelius? Bo. Why, indeed, I had rather be called Thersites than have a face as ugly as the devil : whether I have a handsome one now or not I can- not tell. Be. Then, again, if I was rich and must either part with my wealth or my name, I had rather be called Irus than be deprived of my estate. Bo. I grant what you say to be true, and I am of opinion it is the common temper of those that enjoy health and other corporeal enjoyments. Bo. It is probable. Be. But how many may we see that had rather have the name of being learned and pious than to be learned and pious? Bo. I know a great many of this sort of people. Be. Well, then, is not the name more esteemed among us than the thing itself? Bo. So it seems to be. Be. Now, if we had a good logician, who could properly define what a king, a bishop, a magistrate, and a philosopher was, it is very likely we should find some among them who are more for the name than the thing itself. Bo. He is really a king who aims at the good of his people, and not his own, governing them by law and justice; and he a bishop who watches carefully over the Lord's flock; and he is a magistrate who sincerely studies the good of the public. And a philosopher is one who, neglecting the goods of fortune, studies only to get the endowments of the mind. Be. By these you may see how many examples of this kind I could produce. Bo. Why, truly, a great many. Be. Will you deny all these to be men? Bo. I am afraid we shall sooner lose the name of men ourselves. Be. But if man is a rational animal, how contrary is it to reason that in the conveniences, rather than the real goods of the body, and in external things which fortune gives and takes away at her pleasure we had rather have the thing itself than the name, and in the real goods of the mind we put more value upon the name than the thing itself. Bo. It is an absurd way of judging, if a man did but con- sider it seriously. Be. And the reason is quite the same in those things that are on the contrary side. Bo. I expect what you are going to say. Be. We may pass the same judgment as to the names of those things that are to be avoided as has been given as to those that are to be desired. Bo. That is plain. Be. For to be a tyrant is more to be abhorred than to have the name ; and if a bishop be a bad man, the scripture calls him a thief and a robber. These names are not to be detested by us so much as the things themselves. Be. In truth, I am of your mind. Bo. Do you infer the same as to the rest? Bo. I understand you perfectly well. Be. Do not all fools hate to be called fools ? Bo. Yes, indeed, and more than other folks. Be. Would not he be a fool that should fish with a golden hook, and prefer glass before jewels ? that should put more value upon his horses than his wife and children ? Bo. He would be a greater fool than Ben of the Minories. Be. Are not they such fools that list themselves for soldiers, and for the sake of a poor pay expose body and soul to danger ? who make it their study to scrape ​308 FAMILIAR COLLOQUIES. up riches when their minds are destitute of all good science? who make their clothes and houses fine, but let their minds lie neglected and slovenly ? who are very careful to preserve their bodies in health, and take no care of their minds, that are sick of mortal diseases ? and in the last place, who, for the sake of enjoying the fleeting pleasures of this life, deserve eternal torments 1 Bo. Reason itself obliges a man to confess that they are worse than fools. Be. But though every place is full of such fools as these, you can scarce find one that can bear to be called a fool, though they have no aversion to being fools. Bo. It is really so. Be. Come on, you know everybody hates to be called a liar or a thief. Bo. They are very hateful names, and not without reason. Be. But for all that, though to debauch another man's wife is a greater sin than theft, some glory in the name of adulterers ; and if you were to call them thieves they would draw their swords upon you. Bo. This is a common thing with a great many. Be. And, again, though many give themselves up to whoring and drinking, and do it publicly, yet if you should call them whorern asters they would be highly offended at it. Bo. These glory in the thing and hate the name that be- longs to it. Be. There is scarce any name that sounds harsher in our ears than the name of a liar. Bo. I know some that would run a man through that should affront them by giving them the lie. Be. But I wish they did as much abhor the practice. Have you never had it happen to you, that he that promised to pay you what you lent him, upon a certain day, failed you 1 Bo. Ay, very often ; and though he had sworn to it too, and not only once, but over and over. Be. But it may be they were not able to pay. Bo. Nay, they were able enough, but they thought it more to their advantage to let it alone. Be. And is not this lying? Bo. Ay, downright. Be. And did you dare to say to this debtor, Why have you told me so many lies ? Bo. No, not except I had a mind to fight him too. Be. Well, and in like manner do not masons, smiths, goldsmiths, and tailors promise things xipon a certain day, and do not perform it, although it is of great concern to you ? Bo. Ay, and are not at all ashamed of it. And you may add to these such persons as promise to do you a kindness. Be. Ay, you might give a thousand instances more, not one of which would bear to have the lie given them. Bo. The world abounds with these lies. Be. So, in like manner, nobody will bear to be called thief, when at the same time they have not the same abhorrence of stealing. Bo. I would have you tell me plainly what difference there is between him that steals a thing out of your escritoire and him that forswears what you have deposited with him. Be. No difference but this, that he is the more wicked man that robs him who reposes a confidence in him. Bo. But how few are there that do restore that which has been put into their hands ? or, if they do, restore the whole ? Be. I believe but very few. But yet not one of them will bear to be called a thief, though he has no aversion to the thing itself. Bo. This is very common. Be. Now do but reckon up with me what is commonly done in the management of the estates of orphans, as to wills and legacies ; how much sticks to the fingers of the managers ? Bo. Very ​ often the whole. Be. They love thieving, but hate the name of it. Bo. It is true. Be. What do collectors and coiners of public money do, who either coin it with too great an alloy, or too light ? or they who raise and fall the exchange of money for private ends 1 Though we do not very well understand the reason of it, yet we may speak of what we ex- perience daily. He that borrows or runs in debt with design never to pay, although he be able, differs very little from a thief. Bo. He may probably be said to be more wary, but not more honest. Be. But notwithstanding there is so great a number, yet none of them can endure the name of a thief. Bo. God alone knows the heart ; and for that reason, among men those that run themselves over head and ears in debt are not called thieves. Be. What signifies what men call them, if God accounts them thieves 1 Surely every one knows his own mind.
And besides, he that owes a great deal of money, and yet dis- honestly lavishes away what money he gets, and after he has broke, and cheated his creditors in one city, runs into another, hunting about for people to cheat ; the oftener he does so, does not he declare the more plainly what he is at heart? Bo. Ay, too plainly; but they oftentimes gloss over the matter. Be. How] Bo. They pretend that this is a common practice with great men and kings to owe a great deal of money, and to a great many persons ; and therefore they that are of this disposition more resemble great men. Be. What use would they make of that 1 Bo. It is admirable what great liberty they would have allowed to knights. Be. But by what right or by what law ] Bo. Just the same that the lord of the manor shall claim to himself whatsoever is cast ashore from a shipwreck, although there be a right owner of it ; or by which other persons would keep to their own use what they take from a highwayman after he has been apprehended. Be. Robbers themselves might make such laws. Bo. Ay, and they would too, if they knew how to maintain them ; and they would have enough to plead in excuse of them if they did but denounce war before they committed the robbery.
Be. Who gave knights this privilege above the commons 1 Bo. The law of arms; for thus they are trained up for war, that they may be more expert at plundering the enemy. Be. I believe it was after this manner that Pyrrhus trained his soldiers up to war. Bo. No, but the Lacedemonians did. Be. A mischief take them and their whole army too. But how came this title to have so great a pre- rogative 1 Bo. Some have it by descent, some purchase it with money, and some take it to themselves. Be. And may anybody have it that will ? Bo. Yes, he may, if his manners be but answerable to theirs. Be. What are they ? Bo. Never to be guilty of doing a good action, to go fine, wear a diamond ring, whore stoutly, game continually, spend his life in drinking and diversion, speak of nothing that is mean, be continually cracking of castles, duels, battles, and everything that looks great. They take the liberty of quarrelling with whom they have a mind, although they have not a foot of land of their own to set their feet upon. Be. Such knights as these deserve to be mounted upon, the wooden horse. But there are a great many such knights in, Gelderland.