# A Study of Peter Chelčický's Life and a Translation from Czech of Part I of His Net of Faith (1947)/Part 2/Section 12

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CHAPTER LXVIII
REFUTATION OF THE ARGUMENTS OF AEGIDIUS CARLERII PRESENTED AT THE COUNCIL OF BASEL
Now let us look at the arguments defending the power of the Church, as they were presented in the dispute between Disputation Between the Romanists & Taborites at BaselMaster Aegidius and Nicholas, the Bishop of Pisek, at Basel, concerning the article about the destruction of sins. Master Aegidius gave many reasons based on Church Doctors, and these were the official replies of the Council to Bishop Nicholas. I shall recount some of these (discussions) in ​order to make better known some of those happenings which were woven so long ago; but not through my will, says the Lord.
Among many arguments Master Aegidius says that the civil law can punish certain things legally by death ami that this does not contradict the law of the gospel. The Explanation says concerning the word "thou shalt not kill" that the judge ​does not kill the innocent, but that it is the law that does it.. . . And God can kill since He is the giver of life and death: "It is I who slay, ami bring to life." therefore the kings whom God has authorized to rule can kill in the exercise of their justice. It is also said to the Romans that those who do such things deserve to die. And about the judges he says that they do not wear the sword in vain, but serve God. The judge is justified to comdemn to death in accordance with the Scripture which says, "as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here ani slay them before me!" Then he mentions also Cyprian who, referring to the place in the Old Testament where God says to the tribe,
He says this in explanation of another text, "remembering the commandment, Matathias slaughtered those who offered sacrifices to the idols." And since these things were commanded ​before the arrival of Christ, they are all the more valid after his appearance.. . .
01 In the Czech original his name is Jilji̍. He is Aegidius Carlerii de Picardia, “decanus cameracensis," professor of theology of the University of Paris. One of the historic figures of the Council of Basel. Cf. former discussion of the Council in chap. XIII, p.63* et passim.
02 Nicholas of Pelhr̄imov (or, Pilgram), Ta̍borite Bishop of Pisek. Elected to episcopacy in 1420. He defended the Ta̍borite position at the Council of Basel. It is mainly through his efforts that the Hussite clergy of the Ta̍borite faction worked out a unified theological system at a synod held in Pisek in 1422 (Cf. Palacky, Dějiny, 2nd ed., vol.lV, 1, p.84). Imprisoned by King George of Podiebrad in 1452, died in prison in 1459. Often nicknamed "Biskupec." Supra, pp.49–52.
03 Here is meant the Fourth Article of Prague saying that "all mortal sins and especially the visible sins and other evils, contrary to the law of God, be judged and destroyed orderly and wisely by those who are authorized by their office to do so." (Quarto quod inordinaciones legi divine contrarie in quolibet statu rite et rationabiliter per eos, ad quos spectat, prohibeantur et destruantur). Cf. Monumenta Concilium Generalium: Concilium Basileense, p.389.
04 Master Aegidius (in French, Giles Charlier) spoke from the 13th to the 17th of February 1433, and Bishop Nicholas on January 20th and 21st, 1433. "Feria die 6 ante Valentini . . . surrexit doctor theologiae Aegidius de Picardia, volens ponere positionem contra Episcopi de destructione peccatorum. . ." (Cf. "Petri Zatecensis Liber Diurnus de Gestis Bohemorum in Concilio Basileensi," in Monumenta conciliorum generalium: Concilium Basileense, Vienna: Imperial Academy of Sciences, 1857, p.309). Also “Johannis de Ragusio Tractatus quomodo Bohemi reducti sunt ad unitatem ecclesiae," in Monumenta, p.284f.: "Item die 13 Februarii in congregatione general hora consueta de mane magister Aegidius Carlerii, magister in theologia Parisiensis, incepit suam propositionem ad secondum (sic) articulum de peccatis mortalibus publice corrigendis respondendo, praemissis brevi collatione et protestationibus in similibus actibus fieri consuetis. Et ea die complevit primum punctum suae positionis, quam prosecutiis est per tres dies alios, videlicet die Sabbati qui fuit dies 14, et die Lunae qui erat dies 16, et die Martis sequenti qui fuit 17. Et in fine positionis petiit veniam, si in aliquo offendisset sacrum concilium vel quemcumque auditorem sive in fide, sive in quibus-cunque aliis, et ut de offensis aut erratis benigne per sacrum concilium corrigeretur, si aliquo modo impegisset in aliquem, aut aliquem quo_modo offendisset; et in his actus magistri Aegidii fuit finitus.
05 Glossa Ordinaria, written by Abbot Walafried Strabo (decessit A.D. 1501), whose commentary on the Church Fathers was for a long time honored almost as much as the Bible.
06 Deut. 32:39.
07 Rom. 1:32.
08 Rom. 13:4.
09 Luke 19:27. Cf. the item in "Petri Zatecensis liber diurnus . . .," in Monumenta, p. 309: "Item homicidium in punitione malorum fieri dixit, probans per illud Romanorum 13: "Non sum sine causa," etc. Item Lucae 19: "Inimicos meos," etc."
10 Deut. 13: 6 & 9.
11 I-Macc. 2: 24.
CHAPTER LXIX
THE ARGUMENTS OF AEGIDIUS CARLERII (CONTINUED)
Saint Augustine, speaking about the City of God, was Standing on a bloody ground when he said, "If someone is killed justly, he is killed by the law and not by the lawyer." And Saint Jerome says, "It is not cruelty but kindliness to punish the sins for God." Ani by punishment he means death as is evident by his examples of Phinehas ani his justice, the justice of Elijah, the justice of Simon of Caanan who sent fiery serpents on the magicians, the justice of Peter in punishing Ananias and Saphira, the justice of Paul who humbled Elymas the magician, and he adds: "If thy own brother, or friend, or wife, should dare to defile truth, let thy hand fall upon them, and shed their blood." So much Jerome. The old saints have certainly gathered enough food for the sword so that it would not starve! (:All these arguments are false, and meant only to confuse the issues and to justify violence.:)
1 Num.25:7–8.
2 21-Ki. 18:40.
3 Reference to the old legend of Simon Magus (Acts8:9–24) who is supposed to have reverted to his old practice of sorcery and to become a persistent antagonist of the Apostle Peter.
4 Acts 5:1–10.
5 Acts. 13: 8–11.
CHAPTER LXX
THE ARGUMENTS OF AEGIDIUS CARLERII (CONTINUED)
St. Gregory says, "the commandment 'thou shalt not kill' forbids anyone to kill a man, but not to hand over to death a man condemned by the law."St. Gregory & St. Augustine For he who exercises public authority and punishes the evildoers by virtue of the law, is not a transgressor of the commandment "thou shalt not kill." . . . And Saint Augustine, speaking of the City of God, says:
He wallows in blood saying this. So the soldier is obeying the law when he mercilessly murders people, but is a transgressor of the law if he should show mercy! This is what he says, he who is supposedly filled of the Holy Spirit! And again he says, that the House of David could not have had peace, had it not extinguished Absalom. . .
Master Aegidius used these as well as many other arguments in order to justify the right to spill blood by the secular authority. He quoted the Fathers, some of whom I have ​mentioned here, to show how much Christendom has been stained by blood through these learned Doctors. . . With their interpretations they are making God as having two mouths, with one saying "thou shalt not kill," and with the other, "thou shalt kill."
Who, then, can tell what God wants, when there are two ways, contrary to each other? (In doing this) men turn away from God.
1 Cf. De civitate Dei, I, 20.
CHAPTER LXXI
THE ARGUMENTS OF AEGIDIUS CARLERII (CONTINUED)
(:The Church defends warfare and violence with the reasonings of famous men, saintly men, and men rull of the Holy Spirit.:)The Church Sanctions War They sanctioned with the Holy Spirit the spilling of blood committed by the Church.. . . Yes, the Holy Spirit has gone into blood-letting for the peace of the holy mother Church.
Therefore, in order that their justifications might stand honorably and firmly among the Christians, they cunningly based their law on the words of Saint Paul who, condemning sins, said:
The doctors interpret the words, "deserve to die," as sanctioning civil courts and executions.. . . But these words apply to the transgressors of the law of Christ and their punishment is the death of damnation. Jesus Christ sent St. Paul to call the transgressors to the judgment of death and repentance. . . And St. Paul preached to them repentance, giving himself for an example, that he was a mur​derer, and an enemy, and that (in spite of that) Christ Jesus showed him supreme patience, accepting him into his grace for the edification of those who are to believe in the Son of God and to repent for that for which they deserve death, yea, hell.. . . The doctors have built a false foundation on these words with which they murder people, having perverted these words into a law for the spilling of free blood; and they gave this law to as a testament to state authorities.
1 Rom. 1:32, RSV.
2 Literally, "clerks of all blood."
CHAPTER LXXII
THE ARGUMENTS OF AEGIDIUS CARLERII (CONTINUED)
The second justification of war is also affixed to the words of Saint Paul who says:
(:Paul speaks of the civil authority; in his case it was personalized by Emperor Nero. :) And Paul admits that Nero with his sword is a servant of God, and an executioner of God's anger. (:Yet Nero used his sword even against Paul condemning him to death. The apostle committed no wrong and yet the Emperor killed him. And here come the Church's obedient apologists and say: "he did not kill, it was the law that killed.":) Accordingly, the soldiers do not take to their consciences their murders. . .Legalizing Murder because their murdering is not killing . . . but simply the exercise of the law, and so a service to God.. . . The sanctity of the great saints is removing the (stigma) of a bad conscience from (killing) . . .
1 Rom. 13:4, RSV.