# An Examen of Witches/Chapter 37

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Chapter XXXVII.
Whether it is Permitted to Menace a Witch in order to Heal or Ward Off Harm.
I am aware that there are those who are agreed that it is not lawful to have recourse to witches in order to induce them by prayers and fair words to effect a cure; for they hold that this shows an abject and humble spirit, and has some appearance of adoration; and they add that St. Paul very expressly forbids us to have communication with the Devil: “I would not that ye have intercourse with devils.” But they maintain that it is permissible if a man approaches the witch with force and threats; and they even assert that there is no better method than that to compel a witch to remove the spell which she has cast. We have noted an example of this in the case of Clauda Gaillard, who struck Marie Perrier ill by breathing in her face; and yet, as soon as she was threatened by Pierre Perrier, the evil at once left Marie. But I would not say that this practice is common to-day; yet indeed it seems to have some sound base if one considers that he who threatens a witch does so in a disdainful spirit and, as it were, commanding the witch.
Yet I doubt whether this latter method may be any more conscientiously used than the former; for in each case a man gives the witch the occasion to consult Satan for a remedy, and this is ​directly against the law of God, as we have more fully argued elsewhere in the preceding chapter. Yet I will concede that, in order to ward off an evil, there is no offence in a man’s bearing himself proudly and fiercely towards witches, so that these may fear them who behave towards them in such a manner, and may feel some dread for those who command them and might harm them. The Emperor Frederic Barbarossa made this clear to the Arab sorcerer who was sent by the Milanese to poison him; for when he was caught, and was threatening to kill the Emperor by his words if he did not let him go, the Emperor caused the man himself to be punished with death as he deserved.
But the best example of this is provided by the Officers and Ministers of Justice; for all are agreed that no witch, however wicked, can do harm to their persons. Bodin, Demonom. III. 4. Remy, Demonol. I. 2.I may add that Satan himself holds them in fear and dread. I know this from the depositions of Rollande du Vernois. This woman was possessed of two devils, and yet was suspected of witchcraft. When I approached the guard-room to hear her statement she was tormented more violently than usual, and said that her devils felt my approach and for that reason tormented her in that manner.
Herein there is certainly a secret judgement of God, who will not permit the wicked, such as are witches, to have power over the persons of Judges, so that justice, which, as King Joram said, is of Him, shall be executed.
II. 1. 11.Yet I have read in Sprenger that a witch who was about to be thrown on to the fire said to the gaoler that she would pay him, and blew into his ​face, and struck him with leprosy all over his body so that he died after a few days. This gaoler was perhaps not performing his duty well.
Plin. XIII. 4. Dioscor. 113. Mattioli, pref. to Dioscor. i. Dioscor. III. 89. VII. 25.It is not out of place to say here that there are many who, to ward off spells and enchantments, make use of date stones, and the stone called alum, feathers, Squills, Moly, St. John’s wort, madwort, the root or the female Satyrion, rue, the herb called Our Lady’s gloves, the root of the herb called Baaras of which Josephus speaks in the “Jewish War.” But it is very difficult to believe that these stones and roots, which are corporeal matters, can have any power against the Devil, who is purely spiritual; and it is more probable that they can only operate in the manner which we shall explain in Chapter 57.
Yet it may be that we should believe that God, the more to manifest the glory of His Majesty, consents to combat and overcome the Devil by means of the least of His creatures. For He acted so in the case of Pharaoh’s magicians, who easily in imitation of Moses made frogs and serpents and dragons, and turned the water into blood; but when they tried to make flies they were powerless and ashamed.
The people of the West Indies behaved very abominably on this account when the Spaniards came to their country. For as a protection against charms they wore round their necks an image of Pederasty, a Sodomite and his Ingle—matters which a Christian cannot hear spoken of without loss to his sense of shame and modesty.