# Transcribed Interview of Angela McCallum, (December 8, 2021)/10:11am

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​ Good morning. This is a deposition of Angela McCallum, conducted by the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol pursuant to House Resolution 503.
At this time, I'd like to ask the witness to please state her full name and spell her last name for the record.
The Witness. Angela McCallum, M-c-C-a-l-l-u-m.
Thank you.
So this will be a staff-led deposition. My name is I'm an investigative counsel for the committee. And I'm accompanied by my colleague here. I'll let her introduce herself.
And she's also investigative counsel for the committee.
And we may have members joining us. Actually, we're going to start off with Representative Zoe Lofgren here on the screen, and some other members may join as we go through the process here by video. And I'll do my best to note their appearance when they sign in, both for you all and for the record.
We're also joined here this morning by our chief clerk, who's also on committee staff, and, here, another member of our professional staff.
So, under the House deposition rules, neither committee members nor staff may discuss the substantive testimony that you provide today unless the committee approves its release. You, Ms. McCallum, and your attorney will have an opportunity to review the transcript.
And, before we begin, I'd like to discuss just a few ground rules.
We will follow the House deposition rules that we provided to your counsel ​previously. Under the House deposition rules, counsel for other persons or government agencies may not attend, and you are permitted to have your attorney present.
Counsel, at this time, would you state your name for the record, please?
Mr. Brothers. Yes. My name is Paul Brothers. I'm with Graves Garrett and counsel for Ms. McCallum.
Great. Thank you.
So we have an official court reporter here transcribing the record of this deposition.
Ms. McCallum, have you ever been deposed before?
The Witness. No.
Okay. So the ground rules are pretty simple here. We will just ask for you to please wait for each question to be completed before you respond, and that's so that the reporter can get everything clearly on the record. We will also try to wait until your response is completed before asking another question. And we'll ask that you respond verbally, since the court reporter can't record responses like a nod of the head or anything—shaking your head—like that.
So we also will ask that you provide complete responses, complete answers, based on your best recollection. If the question is not clear, please do ask for clarification, and we'll be happy to do that. If you do not know the answer, please say so.
And you may only refuse to answer a question to preserve a privilege that is recognized by the select committee. So, if you refuse to answer a question based on a privilege, staff may either proceed with the deposition or seek a ruling from the chair on the objection. If the chair overrules an objection, you are required to answer the question.
And I also want to remind you that it is unlawful to deliberately provide false ​information to Congress. Since this deposition will be under oath, providing false information could also result in criminal penalties for perjury or providing false statements.
Do you understand that?
The Witness. I do.
Okay. Great.
I'd ask for you now to—for the court reporter to swear you in.
[Witness sworn.]
Okay. Great. We're ready to proceed?
Mr. Brothers. We are.
Great.
So I don't think that we're going to take your whole day today, but we will go for probably a couple of hours. And we will plan to take some breaks, but if at any time during the questioning you would like a break or you'd like a chance to talk to your attorney, please let us know and we'll do that.
Mr. Brothers. And I should note one thing. I'm not sure if you meant "proceed" as to ready to start asking questions. I do have a few things I need to put on the record before we begin.
Sure. This is the right time to do it, so—
Mr. Brothers. All right.
—go right ahead.
Mr. Brothers. So let me preface this first by saying, obviously Ms. McCallum is here. What I am about to say is not grounds that Ms. McCallum is using to not appear before the committee for a deposition today, nor is it grounds she is asserting to not answer questions from the committee today.
​We have some objections to raise to preserve for the record, not to have a ruling on today, but to have preserved in the event the committee would request further testimony, further depositions, or further document production.
We just want the record to be clear that, for these depositions, Ms. McCallum—or, for this deposition, Ms. McCallum's appearance and testimony isn't waiving these objections, and she reserves the right ta raise them at a later time if the need were to arise.
I have four of those objections.
The first is that the committee is not properly composed. As the committee is aware, the resolution forming the committee required the appointment of 13 committee members. At least five of those members were required to be appointed with consultation of the minority leader. The Speaker rejected the minority leader's appointments and the slate of appointments he offered. Because of that—and appointed all 13 members on her own. Because of that, there was no consultation with the minority Member, and Ms. McCallum's position is the committee is not properly composed.
The failure to properly compose the committee resulted in invalidation of all of the committee's actions, including Ms. McCallum's subpoena.
Again, she is here today. She is willing to testify today, but she is preserving that objection for the record if the need to raise it would arise further down the road.
The second objection is similar to the first—that is, the subpoenas issued by the committee, including the subpoena for Ms. McCallum, are not properly issued.
This, again, goes back to the problems with the composition of the committee. Because there are no minority appointees of the committee, the committee lacks a ranking member. This is denoted by Representative Cheney's title as "vice chair" rather ​than "ranking member."
The resolution forming the committee authorizes the committee to compel witnesses to appear for depositions through subpoena. The chairman has that authority in consultation with the ranking member. Because the committee does not have a ranking member due to its composition problems, there has, by definition, been no consultation between the chairman and the ranking member. This lack of consultation invalidates the subpoena. The subpoena was not properly issued.
Once again, I want to note Ms. McCallum is here today and is not asserting that objection today to not appear or to not testify, but is merely preserving that objection in case it needs to be raised in the future.
The third objection is Ms. McCallum's subpoena is not supported by a committee function.
We acknowledge the committee is tasked with investigating the causes of January 6th, and we are aware of the general assertions of the committee that this will entail an investigation into the certification of election results and allegations of election irregularities.
However, information regarding allegations of election irregularities and arguments regarding election results certification is already well-known through public litigation, public statements, and media statements from numerous individuals.
Our position is the committee has all the information it needs to inform its inquiry into what potential legislation in this area may be necessary, and there is no need to probe the internal operations of a major Presidential campaign through this witness.
We do not believe Ms. McCallum's subpoena is in furtherance of a legitimate committee function. And, once again, we are just asserting this objection to preserve it for the record, not to prevent Ms. McCallum from appearing today or from answering ​your questions today.
Finally, Ms. McCallum has produced numerous documents to this committee. I sent a letter along with those documents raising numerous objections regarding production issues for Ms. McCallum. Those objections still stand, and we want the record to be clear that Ms. McCallum is not waiving any of the objections in that letter. I believe they were First Amendment, Fourth Amendment, legislative purpose, pertinence, common law privileges that were raised in that letter.
And Ms. McCallum is not waiving those objections by appearing today or answering the committee's questions. However, she is here today. She is not asserting those objections as a basis for not appearing today or as a basis for not answering questions today.
Those are the objections for the record.
I also have a few ground rules I would like to propose.
I understand that, due to the composition of the committee, there is one committee staff; we don't have a minority staff. So that makes the traditional rounds aspect of this deposition difficult. However, we would request that we maintain the 60-minute round format, just allowing everyone a short break every 60 minutes.
Second, I understand we have two counsels for the select committee, and my understanding is both may ask questions. We would request to adhere to a more traditional deposition format. As counsel are both undoubtedly aware, in a traditional deposition one attorney is allowed to ask questions. Same thing in a courtroom for an evidentiary hearing. We would like to remain closer to the traditional format for depositions.
A compromise we are willing to offer would be that, whoever is doing the questioning, if you would like to switch to the other counsel having questions, we are ​agreeable to that only after a short break. And then every time that you guys want to pass back and forth questioning, we would request a short break, just to keep things clear and organized.
We would be open to a more free-flowing conversation where multiple counsels for the committee could ask questions and just interject in a less formal interview setting, whether that be transcribed or not. Ms. McCallum made that request, and the committee rejected it. Because of that rejection, we are requesting to stick closer to the traditional deposition format.
And the last thing, and it's really almost moot at this point, but we do have the binders of the exhibits you have provided. We did ask to be provided with any documents that you were going to present to Ms. McCallum that were not part of her production. discussed the one document with me right before we went on the record that pertains to that, and I thank you for that and I appreciate that.
And I shouldn't have said that was the last thing. This is the last thing: For form objections, we would just ask for a stipulation that any potential objections to hearsay are preserved so those don't need to be stated on the record as a form objection.
Okay—sorry. Didn't mean to cut you off.
Mr. Brothers. I'm—
Is there anything else?
Mr. Brothers. No, I'm finished.
That was the last one.
Mr. Brothers. Appreciate your patience.
Okay. No problem.
All right. Well, let me respond to each of those issues that you just raised—
Mr. Brothers. Uh-huh.
​ —probably not in the order that you raised them.
So I understand that you, just at the beginning of your statements just now, entered for the record several objections, including to the formation of the committee and other, sort of, fundamental questions about the select committee's work. But I understand that you are prepared to answer questions today, notwithstanding the fact that you stated those objections.
With your objections pending, one way that we might need to do that is hold this deposition open. We can continue as planned today with us asking you some questions, Ms. McCallum, with you answering those questions or raising privilege objections to specific questions, if you have them, as you go, and then hold the deposition open to seek a ruling on those objections from the chair.
I don't think, with those objections standing, that we would be prepared to conclude the deposition today, but it sounds like we can proceed. And I think, with those having been stated for the record, we can proceed today and see how things go.
Mr. Brothers. That's acceptable.
Okay.
On the process stuff, I think an hour break is a perfectly acceptable idea for everybody involved, or maybe even less, depending on the sort of structure here.
However, on the manner in which we question, that's not something that we're prepared to agree to today. Our process is that counsel for the committee—and here you have and myself, but we may be joined by other members of the staff during the deposition—each may ask questions. And, in addition, we have our members who may join, and they may ask questions as we go throughout the deposition.
Obviously, we hope that this can be a productive and non-, you know, confrontational process. So I'm not prepared to accept your limitation on our ​questioning, but I do suggest that we proceed and see how it goes. We're not in any—you know, our goal here is not to badger your client or pester you with questions, but this is the process that we follow.
Mr. Brothers. We can proceed. Certainly, we're not going to let this come between us in proceeding with the deposition today.
I will say: Nontraditional. I mean, the committee insisted on a deposition. And I think, when the committee is going to insist on a deposition, it should hold a deposition, not hold some sort of hybrid that it's come up with.
I also would note that, you know, that's not common in traditional depositions, that's not common in courtrooms, and, frankly, that is not common in committee hearings, public committee hearings. It's not just an open hot bench, if you will, where members just get to shoot questions and interject.
So I don't think that it is appropriate. However, we are willing to proceed.
And I think the compromise we can reach is: You guys have your procedures. We will abide by them. However, I will interject if I feel that we're just rapid-firing, switching between people, and badgering the witness. I will not allow that, and I will request a break if that becomes a problem to allow the witness a break from any badgering.
Yep. We have no intention of badgering your client.
So I think it sounds like, with all that being said, we could probably get started here.
Mr. Brothers. I agree.
Okay.
Let me, before we do get started, though, allow Ms. Lofgren—is there anything you would like to say before we get going with the questioning?
​Ms. Lofgren. Not at this time. Thank you.
Okay. Great.
EXAMINATION
    BY
Q Okay. So here we are. Ms. McCallum, could we start off with some basic background about you? Where did you grow up?
A I grew up in Greenwood, South Carolina.
Q Okay. And where do you live now?
A My permanent residency is in Abbeville, South Carolina. I currently reside in Cayce, South Carolina.
Q Okay. That's my first name, so it sounds like a lovely place.
Can you walk us through a little bit of your professional background, starting with where you went to college or any other education that you've received?
A Yeah. I graduated from Clemson University with a degree in—a bachelor's of science in economics in December of 2019.
After that, I interned at the White House in the Office of Cabinet Affairs. I interned there from the end of January of 2020 until March of 2020. The class was cut short due to COVID. And, shortly after that, I joined the Trump campaign, working out of the Arlington, Virginia, headquarters.
And, after the campaign, I contracted with the National Republican Senatorial Committee and worked in Atlanta, Georgia, for the Senate runoff.
And I currently work at First Tuesday Strategies in Columbia, South Carolina.
Q Okay. Great. Thank you.
So, for your White House internship in the early part of 2020, can you give us a general sense of what your roles and responsibilities were during your internship?
​A Yes. I was an intern for the Office of Cabinet Affairs, so anything related to supporting the Cabinet Secretary. Mostly handled just general office tasks, such as, you know, updating the whiteboard calendar and things of that nature.
Q Okay.
Did you have any role working on the Trump campaign before March 2020?
A No.
Q Okay. And what was your job title when you were first hired by the Trump reelection campaign?
A Elected officials outreach coordinator.
Q Okay. And, if you can recall, approximately what dates did you serve the job with that title?
A My job contract with the Trump campaign did not end until the—I believe it was the 15th of November. Also, it could be the 30th of November. I'm not sure exactly what pay period. And, officially, that's the only job title I held. I was an independent contractor after that point.
Q Okay. So, for the time period before the end of November 2020, were you a contractor or were you a member of the Trump campaign staff?
A I was on the payroll until November.
Q Okay. Thank you.
And what generally were your job responsibilities as the elected officials outreach coordinator?
A I worked underneath two managers, who were the elected officials outreach managers. And we reported to the deputy political director.
My responsibilities there were just tracking communications between the managers and State representatives, State senators, county commissioners, county ​sheriffs, really just anyone on a more local or State level.
If, you know, they had a call where they received messaging or talking points of things that were going on in that particular battleground State, that's something that I would keep track of and put it into, you know, a weekly report. Or if they had an op-ed or some other kind of media published, I would just compile that into a report, and it would just be sent to the deputy political director.
Q Okay. Great.
During the time period that you held that job, who were the—you've mentioned that you reported to two managers. Who were those managers?
A Olivia Miller and Nicholas Ivory.
Q And they were your supervisors for the whole time that you held that job?
A That's correct. Along with Jim O'Connell, deputy political director.
Q Okay. Great. And were all of those individuals—Olivia Miller, Nicholas Ivory, and Jim O'Connell—were they working in the Arlington headquarters with you?
A That's correct.
Q Okay.
Were your responsibilities as elected officials outreach coordinator nationwide or focused on specific States?
A Specific battleground States.
Q Okay. And which were those?
A I can name a couple. I'm not sure that my list will be completely comprehensive. Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona, Nevada, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Florida. That's all I can think of right now.
Q Okay. Thank you.
Were you the only elected officials outreach coordinator, or did you have ​colleagues who had similar job responsibilities to you?
A I did not. Madison Crawley held the same role as I did.
Q And, between yourself and Ms. Crawley, did you have a specific delineation of responsibilities to any of these particular States?
A No. We just split pretty much all the work 50-50.
Q Was Ms. Crawley also in the Arlington headquarters with you?
A Yes, ma'am.
Q Okay.
As the election progressed towards election day, did your job responsibilities change?
A In the weeks leading up to election day, at that point, you know, it was obviously an all-hands-on-deck-type of situation, so Madison and I were sent to just basically help out other offices. One of the offices we helped out was the election day operations team in, you know, making phone calls to deploy volunteers to some of the same States that I listed earlier, really just—that's all I have to say.
Q Okay. Was the election day operations team focused on all of those battleground States or a nationwide effort?
A I would say mostly focused on those States. I'm not entirely sure, you know, what their efforts were beyond those States.
Q Okay. And the EDO team or office, was that also at the Arlington headquarters?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. And who did you report to for your work in the support role for the EDO?
A That would be the deputy director of election day operations, Michael ​Brown.
Q Okay.
At some point during the election, did you—did you focus on the Georgia election? Let me rephrase.
A Yeah.
Q You mentioned that you became a contractor for NRSC. Is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Okay. Was that for the general election or the Georgia runoff?
A Solely the runoff.
Q The runoff. Okay. So that started after the conclusion of your work for the Trump campaign. Is that correct?
A My contract with the NRSC officially began on December 1st of 2020 -- 2020.
Q 2020, right. And how long did you work for the NRSC?
A I believe that contract ended on January either 15th or 30th, whatever pay period that was. I concluded work with them about 3 days after the runoff.
Q Three days after. Okay.
So, just generally, what were your responsibilities when you were working for the NRSC? Were you physically in Georgia?
A I was in Atlanta, Georgia.
Q Okay. So what were your responsibilities when you were at the NRSC in Georgia?
A I coordinated volunteers, you know, any volunteers that were in the building. I was still working with Ms. Crawley. We would, you know, order lunches for catering, things like, you know, letting volunteers know what day to arrive, letting them know where their hotel accommodations were, really just tasks similar to that—you ​know, restocking office supplies. Yeah.
Q Okay. And who did you report to when you were working with the NRSC?
A Sorry, there were a lot of people in the office. Michael Brown, who I mentioned, was there. Mike Roman was there. And I'm not sure—since we were all contractors, you know, none of us had official titles, so I'm sorry that I'm leaving those out. And Alyssa Specht was also there.
Q How do you spell Alyssa's name?
A I believe it is A-l-y-s-s-a. "Specht" is S-p-e-c-h-t? I think so.
Q That works for me. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure—
A Sorry. That's just a guess.
Q Yeah—if you knew it, wanted to make sure we had it, you know, clear in the record.
Okay. I believe you mentioned that you had worked—you had reported up to Michael Brown during the Trump—when you were working for the Trump campaign. Is that correct?
A For a brief period of time.
Q Right. And what about Mike Roman you mentioned? Was that somebody that you worked with on the Trump campaign?
A Not directly. More so through communications with Mr. Brown.
Q Okay. And same question for Alyssa Specht. Is that also someone that you had worked with in the Trump campaign?
A No, I had not worked with Alyssa. I met her when I was in Georgia, I believe.
Q Okay.
And then you mentioned that you're currently working for a company called First ​Tuesday Strategies. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
QWhat's your title there?
A Public affairs associate.
Q Okay. And approximately when did you start that job?
A April 2021.
Q Okay. And, just generally, what are your responsibilities in your current job?
A Just working with clients to—mostly public affairs clients—sorry—to, you know, send them materials for—we do PR. We—you know, any messaging or talking points where we're acting as general consultants on a project, things like that.
Q Okay. That's great. Thank you.
I just wanted to clarify, about when did you say you started working for the Trump campaign?
The Witness. It would be—
Approximate is fine.
The Witness. Yeah. Either the second half of May of 2020 to early June. I don't have an exact date.
That's fine. Thanks.
The Witness. Uh-huh.
That's it.
    BY
Q Okay. We have the subpoena in your binder there in front of you marked as exhibit 1, if you need to refer to it at any time.
And you understand that you're appearing here pursuant to the subpoena that ​was issued to you dated November 8, 2021. Do you understand that?
A Yes.
Q Okay. We know that you have produced documents in response to the subpoena. I have a couple of questions far you just about generally how those documents were collected, and then we'll talk about the documents in a few minutes as well.
So did you review the schedule of requests that were attached to your subpoena?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Did you search for records that were responsive to the subpoena schedule?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And have you produced to the select committee all documents or communications in your possession, custody, or control that are responsive to those requests in the schedule to the subpoena?
A Yes.
Q Okay. So where did you—what generally can you tell us about the places that you searched for documents responsive to the subpoena?
A Yeah. I searched my personal cell phone, text messages, things like that, personal email account through Gmail, and, related to that, anything that was shared with me in some kind of Google Drive format.
I'd like to go ahead and state that there were a lot of things that were shared with me that, you know, I don't know who shared them, things like that, you know, things that I had access to but had really never seen. Of course, if it was responsive, it was sent.
And, let's see, my personal computer and—yeah.
Q Okay. Just for clarification, when you said that you had access to ​documents but that you had not seen them, does that mean, when you went through the process of searching documents to find things responsive to the subpoena, you then saw documents that you determined to be responsive but that you had not known that you had before that point?
A Yes.
Q Is that an accurate understanding of what you just said? Okay. It would be helpful for us—we will discuss—as we go through the documents, it will be helpful for you to identify what those documents might be, which I assume your lawyer is prepared to do.
A Yes.
Q Okay. Great.
So you mentioned searching all of those personal locations. Thank you for describing them.
Generally speaking, when you were working on the Trump campaign as the elected officials outreach coordinator—that's the point of your professional background, your service in the Trump campaign that we're going to be focusing on today and for which you produced responsive documents. During that time period, can you generally tell us what types of computers or devices you used in the course of your duties?
A Yes. I did not have a campaign cell phone, but I did have a campaign laptop.
Q Okay. So I assume you did use a cell phone to do your job.
A Just my own personal—
Q Right, you—
A —cell phone was used.
Q —used your personal one. Okay. Is that the same phone that you have ​now, the one that you used during your duties?
A No.
Q Okay. When you—I assume that means that you replaced the phone that you had at the time that you were working on the Trump campaign?
A Yes. I would've had—technically, I guess it would've been four different iPhones during this time period.
Q Got it. Were they—did you have four phones at the same time or—
A No. No, no, no.
Q —consecutively you have gone through a lifecycle of four phones?
A Meaning that four phones have had a lifecycle since I started on the campaign.
Q Got it. When you were working on the campaign, did you only have one phone at that time?
A At each given time, I only had one phone.
Q Okay. Great. Got it. As you replaced the phone, did your documents and information on that phone transfer, such that you would still have access to the data that would've been on your phone, the one that you had during the campaign?
A I believe that everything I had was kept through iCloud and transferred onto my phone. You know, everything—text messages I had dated back to all the way into 2020, so—
Q Okay. Thank you.
As you went through the process of looking for responsive material on your current phone, was there anything that you recalled, like a text message or anything like that, you recalled from the time period that you were working on the Trump campaign that you weren't able to locate on your current device?
​A I don't believe so.
Q Okay.
Okay. So you mentioned that you used your personal phone to complete your work when you were elected officials outreach coordinator. Did you use any particular communication apps or anything on that phone?
And I'm not asking generally did you use apps to communicate with anyone. Just specifically to do your job when you were working as elected officials outreach coordinator, did you communicate for work through any other messaging apps other than the standard phone?
A I mean, email, text messages, the physical phone, and Wickr.
Q Wickr? Okay. Did you use Signal?
A I had the Signal app on my phone. I don't recall ever using it for work-related—
Q For work. Okay.
A I don't recall using that one, but I do have that app.
Q Okay.
A And Google, Google Voice. I believe that's it.
Q Okay. Any other apps, like WhatsApp—
A No.
Q —Snapchat, anything like that?
A No, not WhatsApp. Snapchat would be for personal use.
Q Okay. Great.
And you mentioned that you had a campaign computer. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. And did you also use your personal computer for work reasons ​during the time period?
A I'm sorry. Could you say the question again?
Q Sure. In addition to the campaign computer that you were issued, did you also use your personal computer for work-related responsibilities?
A Yes.
Q Did you search that computer for responsive materials?
A Which computer?
Q The personal one.
A Yes, I searched the personal one.
Q Okay. Great. Do you still have the campaign-issued computer?
A It's in my possession, yes.
Q Okay. And did you search the campaign-issued computer for responsive materials?
A I don't believe I still have access to that computer. It has administrative locks on it, and I've been locked out of my email account, which is associated with how to unlock the computer. So, you know, since my campaign email account doesn't work, the computer physically will turn on but it's not, you know—I don't know what's on it.
Q Okay. I think I heard you say that you don't believe that you have access to it. Did you attempt to gain access in order to search it for responsive materials?
A I have not tried to gain access to the computer since April.
Q Okay. And why not?
A Because it was locked then and I assume it's still locked.
Q Okay.
A It's currently at my parents' house, and I don't live there.
Q And how is it that you still have the computer in your possession?
​A Right. Well, since I went to work for the NRSC directly after leaving the campaign, there was no time to turn in the computer. I mean, it just kind of came with me, and now it just collects dust in a closet, so—
Q Okay. Got it.
Do you have anything on this computer point?
No, not at this time.
Okay.
    BY
Q You mentioned that you used your campaign email address that you no longer have access to. Did you also use any other email accounts to conduct your business as elected officials outreach coordinator?
A It would've just been my personal email address through Gmail, which would've connected to, you know, shared documents and stuff through Google Sheets and things like that.
Q Okay. And did you search your personal Gmail account for documents responsive to the subpoena?
A I did. My Gmail, you know, actual email and everything on the drive as well.
Q Okay.
Did you use any social media apps in the course of your work as elected officials outreach coordinator?
A I guess Twitter to just look and see if things such as op-eds or interviews that elected officials had done had been published. Probably the same for Facebook as well.
Oh, and we did—sorry, forgot this part. We—Madison and myself, if there was ever an elected official who was interested in working with us, we would run a quick, ​informal vetting process where we would just scroll through their social media to, you know, make sure that there wasn't anything offensive or inappropriate posted on there before we worked with them.
Q Got it. It sounds like these were resources that you used primarily for research. Is that accurate?
A In regards to work, yes.
Q Yes. In your work responsibilities, did you use either Twitter or Facebook as a communications app to communicate—
A No.
Q —related to your job?
And did you search your Twitter and Facebook for any material responsive to the subpoena?
A No. I never conducted any work besides searching someone's name in the search bar on Facebook and scrolling through their Facebook account.
Q Okay.
A No communications of any kind through any of those networks.
Q Got it.
I forgot one social media. Did you use Instagram as a communications app in the course of your work as elected officials outreach coordinator?
A Not work—no, I didn't use any social media apps for communication whatsoever.
Q Great. Okay.
Anything on documents?
So no DMs, direct messages, on, like, Twitter or Instagram that would've been related to your work?
​The Witness. No, not that I can remember.
Okay.
    BY
Q Okay. So we're going to switch gears and talk a little bit about your work during the 2020 election. So, again, we're going to focus on your job as elected officials outreach coordinator, that time period in your professional career.
So can you tell us a little bit more about what your role was with respect to the elected officials, your outreach role—
A Uh-huh.
Q —during the time period from when you started with the campaign through when you transitioned to the EDO support role?
A Are you asking up until the point—
Q Yes.
A —where I transitioned?
Q Yes.
A I never communicated directly with any elected officials. My main goal was, you know, more statistics.
I would say, you know, this manager talked to X number of Representatives in Georgia. Here are the things that people in Georgia—I'm just using Georgia as an example of a State. You know, here's what they're saying people in their district or their county care about. Or, you know, this Representative in this particular State had a radio interview; you know, here's a clip of that radio interview.
And these would just be things I would put into reports or track on, you know, a spreadsheet or something like that.
Q Okay. Great. And those managers that you're referring to, is that Olivia ​Miller and Nicholas Ivory?
A Correct.
Q Okay. Were there other managers of the elected officials outreach—in the elected officials outreach role for the campaign in addition to Olivia and Nicholas?
A No, not in the managerial role. Basically, our team of four—Nicholas Ivory, Olivia Miller, Madison Crawley, and myself—all reported to Jim O'Connell, the political director.
Q Okay.
So did you have any involvement in the development of a communications strategy for outreach to elected officials?
A Not in strategy, no. My main goal was just keeping track of what people were saying. And, you know, if someone—another thing we did in the office is, if they talked to someone who, you know, say, was a female Representative and they wanted to be involved in the coalition Women for Trump, we would collect and, you know, forward their information along to the coalitions department.
Q Okay.
Did you have any discussions within your team on the elected officials outreach operation about election security or election integrity?
A Can you clarify the question?
Q Sure. So, within your team of four that you just described who were focused on elected officials outreach in the time period before election day 2020, did you have communications within your team about election security issues?
A No.
Q No. Okay. Was election security or election integrity issues something that was discussed with elected officials?
​A No.
Q Okay.
A But if, you know, you wanted specifics on those calls with these people, you'd have to ask Olivia Miller or Nick Ivory on what they were saying. You know, I wasn't involved in those calls, I wasn't keyed in.
Q Got it. But to the extent that your role was to collect information about what their calls were—
A Correct, I never saw anything about election integrity or anything related to that.
Q Okay. Great.
And, within the Trump campaign headquarters in Arlington, were you aware of any communications about election fraud issues before November 3, 2020?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Sure. You were working at the Arlington headquarters during this time period. Is that right?
A Correct.
Q Okay. Outside of your team of four with other officials working—you know, other campaign staff members, are you aware of any communications about election fraud or election integrity issues before November 3rd?
A Not any conversations that directly involved me. However, the office of election day operations, that's part of what they handle. So—
Q Okay.
Okay. Before you transitioned into the role of supporting the EDO team within elected officials outreach, is there a specific communications plan about the election?
A I'm sorry?
​Q Let me rephrase that question. In this elected officials outreach team of four that you described—
A Uh-huh.
Q —how does that—how did the work change as you approached the election, as you got closer to November 3rd?
A Right. As we got closer to November 3rd, there was obviously not as much time for elected officials to, you know, get op-eds published in local newspapers and things like that. And, you know, at that point, there was really no messaging points to collect that could be, you know, ever used. Obviously, that's a quick turnaround.
So, as things got closer, it got more so in inviting them to events. Not myself, particularly, but the managers would, you know, extend invitations to them to attend rallies or events with members of the First Family or whoever was campaigning on behalf of the Trump campaign.
So that was the biggest shift, and more so less to do with tracking, and more so tracking event attendance.
Q Okay.
Okay. Before election day, did you or anyone on your team of four have any discussions with elected officials about the possibility of alternate slates of electors?
A No.
Q Okay. Had you ever heard of that concept before?
A No.
Q What about, more generally, any discussions that you had or that you know about with elected officials about their constitutional role in certifying the election?
A And what time period are you referring to?
Q Before November 3rd.
​A No.
Q Okay. And did you have any knowledge of what the constitutional role of State legislatures might be before November 3rd?
A No.
Q Okay.
Okay. Outside of your team of four that you've described to us, were there other components of the Trump campaign that also had a responsibility in communicating with elected officials?
A The only office that comes to mind would be coalitions. Really, any of those coalitions, such as Latinos for Trump or Women for Trump or anything related to that office, I would assume that they would talk to elected officials.
I'm not aware of any other offices that would be communicating with them. But, of course, you know, in general, our general comms team or things like that, you know, press, all those people could be communicating with them, but—
Q Okay.
A —coalitions is the only one I'm fully aware of.
Q Okay.
Before November 3rd, are you aware of any discussions or communications with those teams about election fraud or election integrity issues?
A No.
Q And same question for any communications before November 3rd with those teams about the constitutional role of State legislatures?
A No.
Q Okay. Great.
Before November 3rd, did you have any role in election-related litigation?
​A There, at one point—I'm not sure exactly what, you know, official office it was for, but there were binders for election night for specific States that just really highlighted, you know, State election laws, statutes, things like that. And my only job with that was just printing them and hole-punching them and putting in the binder. So that was really the only litigation-related thing that I did.
Q Okay. And was that in your role as elected officials outreach coordinator or once you were supporting the EDO team?
A I mean, that was just a general—someone said, "Hey, can you help us print?" and I said, "Sure," you know? There's just not any, really, structure when everyone's, you know, all hands on deck at that point.
Q Got it. Do you know who was responsible for preparing those binders—the materials that went into them, that is?
A I would assume the legal team. I don't really have any specific names.
Q Okay. Did you have any direct interaction with anyone on the legal team for the campaign around this time period?
A One of my friends on the campaign was Sadie May, and she was the executive assistant for—
[Alarm sounding.]
A —one of the attorneys.
Let's pause for 1 second and go off the record so we can figure out what that alarm sound is.
The Witness. Okay.
We'll go off the record now.
[Recess.]
​[11:11 a.m]
Okay. So hopefully we can proceed.
Mr. Brothers. Yes.
    BY
Q Yeah, okay. Great. Okay.
Ms. McCallum, we were discussing your work pre-election day—
A Correct.
Q —before our short break. Now can we talk about how your role changed in the time immediately before and on election day? I believe you mentioned earlier that you transitioned to a role supporting the EDO, the Election Day Operations Team. Is that correct?
A Not, you know, any kind of official job change or anything like that, but just as a supportive role.
Q Okay. Great. And I believe you said earlier that in that supportive role for the EDO team you were working for the deputy director, Michael Brown. Is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Okay. And believe you also said earlier that through Mr. Brown you—he reported up to Mike Roman. Is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Okay. Just generally, can you tell us what the EDO team, what their responsibilities were for the election?
A I can't, you know, speak on everything that they did. Really, the only thing that I was directly involved in was deploying volunteers, just regular volunteers, and also ​lawyers to battleground States to help out on election day and the week before and after.
Q Okay. And approximately how far in advance of election day did you start working with the EDO team?
A Maybe a couple weeks. Not very long.
Q Okay. And what if anything was different about the responsibilities of the EDO team on election day itself, November 3rd?
A I was not with the team on election day.
Q Okay. Where were you on election day?
A Campaign headquarters in Arlington.
Q Okay. And what were your duties or responsibilities on election day itself?
A Not much. I got there probably around 8 or 9 o'clock in the morning.
Basically, the President—or President Trump came to visit the campaign headquarters, so it was a lot of sitting around, security, before, after, really just chatting, went out, got lunch, came back, sat around some more.
Then, on election night, once the polls started closing, my only responsibility was to try and figure out what news organization called which State first. And I would just plug it in with a link to a tweet from Decision Desk or something like that into a spreadsheet.
Q Okay. And what do you remember about how that election night proceeded following the polls closing?
A Not much. Madison and myself were the only ones—really the only people we directly worked with from EDO or the political department, the elected officials outreach office. Madison and I were the only ones present from either of those offices that I remember. So, I mean, there really wasn't much going on.
Q All right. So you're watching the—each of the networks to determine ​when—
A Essentially getting paid to watch the news.
Q Right.
A Really nothing beyond that.
Q Right.
A That's all we did.
Q Did you have an expectation of how late you would have to be watching the news to determine when States were called?
A No. It was kind of an ambiguous, watch the news—
Q Right.
A So—
Q Did you stay at election headquarters very late that night?
A Probably until around 3 in the morning.
Q And just generally, what was the mood at election headquarters during the day and into the night of election night?
A Fine, you know, excitement that it was election day. Really nothing beyond that.
Q Who asked you to monitor the networks and the time at which they called each State?
A Jim O'Connell's assistant, Danna Almeida.
Q Could you spell that name for the court reporter?
A D-a-n-n-a. Almeida is A-l-m-e-i-d-a? I'm not entirely sure of the spelling of the last name.
Q That's still helpful. Thank you.
And when you were asked to watch the networks and determine when they called ​each State, was there any instruction given to you about how late that process might go?
A No.
Q Okay.
So you said you stayed at headquarters until almost 3 a.m., November 4th.
A Yes.
Q Very early the next day. What was the point that which you determined that your responsibilities of watching for the networks to call the elections in the various States were over?
A There weren't as many States being called, you know. It was basically like a, "Hey, we're thinking of going"—you know, "we," being myself and Madison—"Hey, we're thinking about going home. Is that okay?" I mean, it was not a structured job task, so—
Q Okay. Got it.
Within the election night—sorry. Strike that.
Within the Trump campaign headquarters in Arlington on election night, was there any surprise when certain States were called?
A No specific incidences that I recall.
Q Okay. And before election day, November 3rd, what was your expectation about how long you would continue to be employed by the Trump campaign?
A I believe most people, low level like myself, their contracts ended either the 15th or the 30th, you know. No one—no one really had time to talk about anything after election day prior to election day, so there was no expectation really.
Q Okay. And you mentioned contracts. Is that because most of your colleagues on the campaign had a defined contract rather than just being sort of an at-will employee of the campaign?
​A Sorry, can you clarify?
Q Sure. Yeah, I guess I'm just trying to understand better, are you using the term "contract" because there was an actual contract that was written that prescribed the terms of your employment and set a specific end date to your employment?
A Yes, I'm talking about people who were on payroll. Is that more clear for you?
Q Yes. I guess, I'm wondering whether it was just on payroll as staff such that you could be let go at any time, or whether you were actually a contractor of the campaign that had a defined term of employment that ended on a specific date.
Mr. Brothers. So just for clarification, and I guess to avoid speculation, is your question whether Ms. McCallum had a contract?
Yes.
Mr. Brothers. Okay.
So, yeah, did you have a contract with the Trump campaign for your work, you know, pre-election day?
The Witness. Yes, I signed, like, an employee contract, and after that I was put on payroll. And I believe somewhere in the contract said that the last payday would be the 15th or 30th or something like that. You know, I'm not entirely sure how that looked for other people, and I don't have a clear memory on what exactly it was for me.
    BY
Q Got it. Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Brothers. That helped.
So did you sign that contract of employment by the campaign before you started working there in approximately March 2020?
A I believe so. I don't have access to any of those employment documents anymore, so— ​Q Okay. So did you keep a copy of your employment contract when you were working on the campaign?
A It was in a cloud, but there's no—it's not there.
Q So you no longer have access to that document?
A I had access through DocuSign, and I no longer have access via DocuSign, so I don't know exactly what the employee contract said.
Q Okay. Okay. Thank you.
just want to clarify. When did you say your Trump campaign work began? Was it March or April of 2020 or May?
The Witness. It was sometime in May or June of 2020.
Okay. That was my mistake. I was recalling the time that your internship ended.
Okay. Thanks. Clarifying for the record.
The Witness. Sorry.
Not a problem.
Okay. Anything you have to follow up on that?
No.
Okay.
    BY
Q Ms. McCallum, at some paint after—well, actually, let me rephrase. So after election day that went into early morning the following day, how did your job responsibilities change?
A After I left, around 3 a.m. on the 4th, like I mentioned, I came back around 9 on the 4th and really just kind of, you know, sat there waiting for someone to tell me what to do.
​Q And did someone come tell you what to do?
A Yes. I was—I believe I was informed sometime that afternoon or evening that I was wanted to go help in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Q Okay. Did you go to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania?
A I did.
Q Okay. When did you go?
A I believe on the 5th, potentially the 6th.
Q Okay. And approximately how long were you in Pittsburgh?
A About a week.
Q About a week, okay. And maybe we'll come back and talk a little bit more specifics about what you did, but maybe it would be helpful at the beginning just to get a bit of a high-level overview of where you went from that time after election day until you started working on the Georgia runoff.
A Okay.
Q So I think what I'd like to do now is just run through that just from a timing and location perspective, and then we come back and talk a little bit more specific about what you were doing around that time.
A Okay.
Q Does that work?
A Uh-huh.
Q Okay. So after election day, so for the time period that we're talking about, you know, November 4th through— may be able to keep me honest—but the time that you started working for the NRSC and were focused on the Georgia runoff elections, can you walk us through where you physically were during that time period for your job responsibilities?
​A Okay. When I left for Pittsburgh, around the 5th of November, I was there for approximately a week. I came home for one day, maybe 24 hours, to McLean, Virginia. And after leaving McLean I went to Philadelphia and stayed there until, I want to say, one of the first days in December, the 4th comes to mind, either the 4th or the 5th.
And at that point, I drove back to South Carolina, went to my parents' house for maybe 2 days, and then Atlanta, Georgia, to start with the National Republican Senatorial Committee.
Q Okay. So based on what you told us earlier in that very helpful overview, is it accurate to say that from election day until you went to South Carolina and visited your parents, before going to Atlanta, you were still employed by the Trump campaign. Is that right?
A Through—partially I was still on payroll until either the 15th or the 30th. I don't remember entirely. And then at some point during November that switched to an independent contractor role, filing, I believe it's called an I9 or something like that—or 1099.
Q Okay. So you became a 1099 employee after you went off the Trump campaign payroll?
A Yes. It was referred to as a 1099 contractor.
Q Okay. And that—did that end when you started working for the NRSC?
A That contract was originally, I believe, went through the 15th of January. It was just, you know, while I was being paid through the 15th of January I was not performing work during a lot of that period, so—
Q I see. Am I understanding you correctly that your job working for—as a 1099 contractor, that was still your employment circumstances when you went to work ​for the NRSC when you were supporting efforts in Georgia? Is that correct?
A The independent contractor contract was from sometime in November of 2020 to sometime in January of 2021.
Q Okay. And I just want to note that we've been joined by Representative Aguilar.
So, Ms. McCallum, you were a 1099 contractor during this time. To whom were you a contractor? Who were you employed by?
A Contracted with the Trump campaign, Donald J. Trump for President, Incorporated.
Q Okay. So your employment status changed but your employer did not change. Is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Okay.
A Noting, at the same time, I was also a 1099 contractor with the National Republican Senatorial Committee, December and January.
Q Okay. And when did the 1099 contractor employment begin for the NRSC?
A It was dated January—or, I'm sorry. Let me start over. It was dated December 1st, and I went to Georgia, you know, sometime before December 10th. It was very early in December.
Okay. Thank you. That is a very helpful overview.
Any questions, Alejandra, about that?
No.
    BY
Q Okay. So let's go back to the day after the election when you were asked to go to Pittsburgh.
​Who asked you to go to Pittsburgh?
A I believe it was Michael Brown.
Q Okay. And what were you asked to do there?
A I was told to report to Christina Norton. Pretty vague on, you know, what exactly that would look like at that point.
Q Okay. And what was—was Christina Norton an employee of the Trump campaign?
A Not to my knowledge. She is the political director at the Republican National Lawyers Association. Just, you know, assisting the campaign. I don't know if she had a formal contract.
Q Got it. And what was your understanding at the outset of what you were—what your responsibilities would be once you reported to Ms. Norton?
A At that point, I just knew that I'd be assisting her. I didn't know what that looked like.
Q Okay. So once you got to Pittsburgh, how did your responsibilities—what were your responsibilities once you got there and found out—found them out?
A Right. So I drove up there with Christina, checked into the hotel, went to the office building that whoever was working in Pittsburgh for the Trump campaign was at.
Christina and I get there. They basically say that they need help with provisional ballot review and canvassing. So Christina and I, you know, coordinate volunteers to make sure counties had observers there.
Q Okay. And I think you told us that you were in Pittsburgh for about a week following the election?
A That's correct.
​Q Is that right? Okay. And was there anything else in addition to what you just described to us that you worked on in Pittsburgh?
A I believe everything I did in Pittsburgh was related to provisional ballot canvassing.
Q Okay. So just generally, what did that look like, provisional ballot canvassing?
A I'm not entirely sure. I don't really know what a provisional ballot is. I do know that, for some reason, that they are not counted with regular ballots. They have to be reviewed, I assume, by the county board of elections. And then there are observers from each party there representing, you know, a Republican candidate or a Democratic candidate. And those are reviewed by the board and then either included in the vote count or thrown out for various reasons.
Q Okay.
A So—
Q Did you—sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.
A I don't have anything else on that question.
Q Did you have any interaction with local elected officials while you were in Pittsburgh?
A No. The only person who I interacted with who I believe ever held office was a former State representative in Pennsylvania. I believe his name is Keith Rothfus. I don't have any idea what the spelling of that is, so --
Q Okay. No problem.
A But he was not currently in office. He was a former Congressman.
Q Okay.
A I believe his role was just assisting the campaign, so— ​Q Did you have any interaction with—or, sorry, let me rephrase.
While you were in Pittsburgh supporting Ms. Norton from the Republican National Lawyers Association, did you do any work related to election fraud?
A No. I believe the provisional ballots aren't necessarily fraud related. I think things like they submitted an—a voter submitted an absentee ballot but there was no secrecy envelope or something like that. So no, like, fraud incidents.
Q Okay. Understood. And where physically were you working in Pittsburgh?
A So the first day or 2 days I was there we were working out of an office building. I believe it was just a law office building. I don't know which one. The building had started to receive, you know, threats based on the fact that people in the public knew that people from the Trump campaign were working there. And so Christina and I just worked out of our hotel room for the rest of the time we were in Pittsburgh.
Okay.
Do you have anything else about Pittsburgh?
    BY
Q Did you help at all with affidavits or collecting declarations or anything like that in Pittsburgh as part of your responsibilities?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Yep. Did you help with collecting affidavits or declarations during your time in Pittsburgh?
A No.
Q Okay.
    BY
​Q Okay. And I think you told us that after about a week you came home here to Virginia.
A Uh-huh.
Q Is that correct? What was your understanding then about any additional duties that you would have for the Trump campaign?
A I came back to Virginia, McLean, with the understanding that I would likely be going to Philadelphia. I didn't have at that point any idea of when or what I'd be doing there. I was still—the provisional ballot canvassing in Pennsylvania was not over at that point, so I was still working with Christina.
Q Okay. So the provisional ballot canvassing work that you were doing in Pittsburgh, was that specific to Pittsburgh or for all of the State of Pennsylvania?
A I don't have a comprehensive list of counties that Christina and I were responsible for. I do know it was pretty much most of the counties. I say most as kind of a guess. I'm not really sure.
I don't know much about Pennsylvania, you know, how many counties are there or anything. I think it was pretty much everywhere but Philadelphia and maybe some of those surrounding counties we did not handle either. This is also over a year ago, so my knowledge of Pennsylvania counties is low.
Q I appreciate that. Thank you.
So when were you told to go to Philadelphia?
A At some point within that 24 hours that I was home, so some day a week after the election.
Q A short visit, unpack, repack?
A Yes.
Q Off you go. Okay. ​So who told you to go ta Philadelphia?
A Deputy Director Michael Brown.
Q Okay. And what did Mr. Brown tell you were your—would be your responsibilities in Philadelphia?
A Well, I was still working with Christina at the time, so finishing up provisional ballot canvassing, you know, work with her. She would—I was also informed that she would also be going to Philadelphia.
Q Okay. And did she go to Philadelphia, Ms. Norton?
A She did.
Q Okay. After the—did you have an expectation at the time of what else you would be asked to do beyond the provisional ballot canvass once that was complete?
A Not at that time, no.
Q Okay. What happened when you got to Philadelphia?
A I continued to work on things related to provisional ballot review. My friend and colleague, Madison Crawley, was still there, you know, helped her out with some tasks she was doing, basically just managing the volunteers who were in the Philadelphia office.
She would organize things like catering and, you know, making sure everything—everyone had office supplies and things like that. So I would just assist her with a couple of those things.
Q Okay. And Madison, did she go to Philadelphia before you did?
A She was already there when I got there.
Q Okay. Had she gone there right after the election?
A I'm not entirely sure of her—of the date that she left Arlington, but I believe it was around the same time that I went to Pittsburgh.
​Q Okay. How long did you stay in Philadelphia?
A I left sometime around December maybe 3rd or 4th, so—
Q So is that—so you were in Pittsburgh for about a week after the election, so you got to Philadelphia maybe November 12th or 13th, somewhere around there. Does that sound right?
A Sorry, I'm trying to do math in my head.
Q Yeah.
A Yes.
Q Yeah. So was it maybe about 3 weeks or longer that you were in Philadelphia?
A I'm trying to do math in my head again. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Just sometime, you know, mid-November to very early December.
Q Okay. Okay. Great.
Did you have any contact with local elected officials in Philadelphia while you were working for the Trump campaign there?
A No, none that I recall.
Q And did you have any role in election fraud issues in Philadelphia?
A Yes, but not directly. If there was an affidavit or a declaration that someone else collected, my role, like I mentioned with the Google Drive that we talked about earlier, you know, me not having—knowing what some of those documents were, my role was basically just taking them from an unorganized folder in the drive and sorting them by county or incident or whatever it was there. So, yes, but not directly.
Q Okay. And who was collecting or—the affidavits and declarations that you're referring to?
A I am not sure who collected them. I assumed lawyers, but I don't know ​who or anything like that.
Q During this time period, towards the end of November and early December, were you involved in collecting any affidavits or declarations about election fraud?
A I did not collect them. Solely organizing, like I stated.
Q And is it right that you said that you don't know who collected them?
A I don't have any names of people who collected them, no. I think it was a group of lawyers, likely campaign volunteers. But, no, I have no specific names on who was collecting those.
Q Okay. Is there anyone in particular who asked you to organize them?
A Chelsea Barnett.
Q Okay. And was Ms. Barnett a lawyer for the campaign or a campaign staffer?
A She was employed by some aspect of the campaign. I believe it was Trump Victory or one of the PACs or something. And she came to Philadelphia to, you know, continue to assist the campaign. She's—so I don't know, you know, what her official title was in Philadelphia.
Q Okay.
    BY
Q I just wanted to ask a quick followup question. I believe you said that you helped organize the affidavits or declarations that you were collected by other people. Is that right?
A Yes.
Q In Philly. Did you say that you helped sort them by county or incident?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Can you just clarify what you mean by incident?
​A Meaning like if the declaration was, you know, someone, I don't know, a particular type of alleged voter fraud or irregularity or something like that.
Q And do you remember the types of alleged voter fraud or irregularities that you could sort by or that you were sorting by?
A I mean, to be honest, I mostly did them by county and by name. You know, they would assign a certain number to a certain person's affidavit or declaration, and I would mostly just, you know, assign the number, something like that. I'm not really sure about, you know, the names of the folders that they were specifically sorted by beyond that.
Q And do you—did anyone ever tell you how the affidavits or the declarations were going to be used?
A No.
Q Okay. So you weren't—you just knew you needed to sort them but weren't sure how—why you needed to sort them.
A Correct.
Q Is that fair? Okay. Thank you.
    BY
Q Do you remember any examples of the types of allegations of election fraud were in those affidavits or declarations?
A Things like people who were deceased voting or incidents of, you know, one person casting multiple ballots, incarcerated individuals. I don't know. That's not really a comprehensive list. Those are just some examples.
Q Okay. Do you recall approximately how many affidavits or declarations were collected in Pennsylvania?
A I don't have any clue.
​Q Okay. Did there ever come a time where you had another responsibility related to those affidavits or declarations?
A I printed some of them out one time.
Q For whom?
A Michael Brown asked me to print them, but I'm not sure who asked him to print them.
Q Okay. Did you have any other connection with election-related litigation?
A No.
Mr. Brothers. I guess, could you clarify, like connection, like—
Sure, I can rephrase that. Sure, yeah.
The Witness. Yeah, could you be more specific?
    BY
Q Uh-huh. Here's a first question. Those affidavits or declarations, did you ever become aware that they had been used in court, for instance?
A I believe that's what we were printing them for. I'm not entirely sure if they were, you know, actually presented in court or not.
Q Okay. And did you have any other role supporting election-related litigation on behalf of the campaign?
A Can I consult with my attorney?
Q Of course.
[Discussion off the record.]
The Witness. Okay. I am ready to answer your question.
    BY
Q Okay. Please, go ahead.
A I, at one point, by the Pennsylvania State director of election day operations, ​James Fitzpatrick, instructed me to drive Linda Kerns. She was an attorney. I believe she represented the campaign. I drove her to Williamsport, Pennsylvania, for some kind of hearing.
Q Other than driving Ms. Kerns to the hearing itself, did you have any other involvement with the litigation case there?
A Can I refer to—
Q Go ahead.
[Discussion off the record.]
The Witness. No, none that I recall.
    BY
Q Okay. Other than Ms. Kerns, who you just mentioned, and Ms. Norton, who we discussed earlier, did you have any other interactions with lawyers for the campaign while you were in Pennsylvania?
A Christina Norton is not an attorney.
Q Oh, I'm sorry.
A She is the political director for the National Republican Lawyers Association.
Q Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
So other than Ms. Kerns only, did you have any other interaction with lawyers for the Trump campaign while you were in Pennsylvania?
A Michael Brown is an attorney. I'm not sure if James Fitzpatrick is an attorney or not.
There were, you know, like I mentioned, those volunteers who were collecting the affidavits and everything. They were in the same building. And, like I said, I would assist Madi in making sure that they had, you know, catering and office supplies and things like that. So no interactions, particular interactions that I remember, but, you ​know, they were in the same building. I don't remember any other attorneys.
Q Okay. Michael Brown, who you just told us is an attorney, did you understand him to be acting as an attorney on behalf of the campaign, or was he working in a political role?
A I would say working in a political role, but you'd have to ask him.
Q Okay. Do you have any understanding of whether Mr. Brown was representing the Trump campaign in any election-related litigation?
A Could you repeat the question?
Q Sure. Did you have any knowledge of whether Mr. Brown was representing the campaign in litigation as an attorney?
A I don't believe so, but once again, you'd have to ask him.
Q Okay. Same question for Mr. Fitzpatrick, who I think you said might be a lawyer. Did you understand him to be acting as a lawyer for the campaign at this time?
A I don't believe he was, but you'd have to ask him again.
Q Okay. And what was your friend and colleague Ms. Crawley's responsibilities while you were in Pennsylvania?
A Just coordinating volunteers, you know, keeping track of who was coming in and out of the building, making sure they had food and water. And, you know, pretty much we were both low-level. Yeah.
Q And I think you described where you were in Pittsburgh but I neglected to ask you, where were you physically working during your time in Philadelphia?
A In an office building that I would assume the Pennsylvania Trump campaign had been renting or leasing or something like that.
Q Okay. Was it a place where there were a lot of Trump campaign staffers still working when you got there?
​A The only staff that I can remember off the top of my head would be Michael Brown, Madison Crawley, James Fitzpatrick, and James Fitzpatrick's deputy, Lauren Casper. I believe her first name is Lauren.
Q Okay. And those campaign staffers that you just identified, had they all been at headquarters until election day?
A No. The only ones who were at headquarters were myself, Madison, and Michael.
Q I see. And where were Mr. Fitzpatrick and his deputy, Ms. Casper, where were they working for the Trump campaign before election day?
A I believe in that same office building, but you'd have to ask them for clarification.
Q Okay. So it's your understanding that they had been working in Pennsylvania on behalf of the campaign before that.
A Correct.
Q Is that correct? Okay. Thank you.
Okay. This is a good point to just pause to see, Ms. Lofgren, are there any questions that you'd like to ask now?
Ms. Lofgren. No, I'm fine. Thank you.
Okay.
Anything from you, ?
. No.
Okay. So we have a few more questions I think at a general level, and then we can talk about taking a longer break in the middle here for lunch if that's something that you guys want to keep on the horizon.
Mr. Brothers. Yeah, let's—
​The Witness. I just have to use the restroom soon, so—
Yes, sure. Let's go for maybe another 10 minutes. I know we were interrupted by the alarm. Let's do another 10 minutes and take a short break, and we can talk about whether we need to take a longer break for food. Okay. Great.
    BY
Q Ms. McCallum, did there come a time when you were in Pennsylvania for the campaign where you were asked to make phone calls to local elected officials in Pennsylvania or elsewhere?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Sure. Did there come a time when you were working in Pennsylvania on behalf of the Trump campaign where you were asked to make phone calls to State or local officials?
A Yes.
Q Okay. When did that happen?
A Sometime the very end of November.
Q Okay. And who asked you to make those phone calls?
A Michael Brown.
Q Okay. And what did Mr. Brown tell you about what you were being asked to do?
A Basically just told me over text message that this is what we would be doing and sent the script.
Q Okay. And what was your understanding of what Mr. Brown's role was for the campaign at that time?
A I believe still acting as deputy director of election day operations, but you'd have to ask him to be clarified there.
​Q Okay. So to the best of your recollection, what exactly did Mr. Brown say when he asked you to make these phone calls?
A Just said that we would be making phone calls over text message and then sent a basic script.
Q Okay. And this—I know that you have produced text messages to us and we plan to talk about them, so this is not meant to be a memory test.
A Okay.
Q If there is something that you remember that was actually communicated to you in a text message that you produce, we can start looking at documents.
So my question also was directed at, did you have any other conversations with Mr. Brown, separate from the text messages that he sent and that you produced, about what you were being asked to do?
A After the text messages were sent --
QOkay.
A —we met in person.
QAnd where did you meet?
A Someone's hotel room. I'm not exactly sure whose.
Q Okay. And who else was present?
A Madison Crawley, Chelsea Barnett, and Kerrick Kuder. Kerrick is K-e-r-r-i-c-k. Kuder is K-u-d-e-r.
Q Okay. And tell us about what was said in that meeting in the hotel room in Philadelphia in late November where you, Mr. Brown, Ms. Crawley, Ms. Barnett, and Ms. Kuder were meeting.
A It was basically repetition of the text message that we all received. Beyond that, you know, there was a list of the representatives and senators and their contact ​information and just an assignment of who would be calling who.
Q Okay. What did Mr. Brown tell you about why you were being asked to make these calls?
A I don't really recall. You know, I don't really recall asking either, you know. At that point I was a low-level campaign staffer and really just thought of it as another job assignment. Yeah.
Q Okay. Have you been asked to make calls to State or local elected officials in your job at any other time?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Sure. Was this the first time that you'd been asked to call State and local elected officials on behalf of the Trump campaign?
A I believe so, yes, first time.
Q Okay. Do you remember if anyone in that meeting asked any questions about the assignment that you were being given?
A I don't remember any specific questions.
Q Okay. Did anyone raise any concerns about the project you were being given?
A I don't recall any specific concerns.
Q Okay. Do you recall anyone saying where the script that you were being given, where it had come from?
A No.
Q Do you know who prepared it?
A It was sent to me from Michael Brown. I don't know if it originated anywhere else. All I know is that I got it from him.
Q Got it. So is it accurate to say that Mr. Brown didn't tell you who had ​drafted it?
A Correct. He did not tell me who had drafted it.
Q Okay. Did Mr. Brown discuss with you and your colleagues in that meeting any other issues about election fraud or election integrity?
A I don't recall if there was anything discussed in that meeting other than that.
Q Okay. And what was your understanding about this project that you were being given to call State and local officials, what was your understanding about how it fit into the current status of the campaign at that time?
A Honestly, I really just didn't give the job assignment much more thought than someone told me, a low-level campaign staffer, to make a phone call and I did so. You know, to me, I don't know, you know, what his idea was of how it played into the campaign.
Q Okay. Maybe—you recall this meeting happening at the end of November. Is that correct?
A Yes, sometime in the last few days of November.
Q Okay. Before that meeting when you were in Philadelphia had you had any other, you know, job responsibilities or any other projects that you were given that related to the outcome of the election, like any election fraud-related work?
A There was at one time Michael Brown sent me an Excel spreadsheet that just had addresses on it and how many registered voters were registered at that particular address. And all I did there was just type the address into Google Maps and figure out if it was an apartment building or a hotel or whatever type of building that address was.
Q Okay. And what did you do with that information once you had researched it on Google Maps?
A Just plugged in what it was into an Excel spreadsheet and sent it back to him.
​Q Okay. And do you recall what State those addresses were in?
A Pennsylvania.
Q That was for Pennsylvania, okay.
Any other projects that you've been given related to allegations of election fraud other than the affidavit sorting that we talked about and this research about addresses?
A Yes. On—sometime a few days before Christmas, maybe December 23rd, Peter McGinnis, who is Mike Roman's assistant, reached out to Madison Crawley and myself about researching a list of incapacitated, I believe is the word, voters in Wisconsin and just asked us to, you know, look up these people and see if they were actually incapacitated at the time or not based on, you know, social media postings or something like that. And that information, same thing, was just plugged into, you know, a document and sent back to Peter.
Q Okay. And what was Mr. Roman's job title with the campaign?
A Director of election day operations.
Q Okay. And what was your understanding of his responsibilities?
A Overseeing election day operations.
Q Okay. Had you—you mentioned that he was physically in Pennsylvania when you were there. Is that right?
A That's correct. I saw him a couple times while I was in Philadelphia.
Q Okay. And just in general, did you have any—had you had any previous interactions with Mr. Roman before you got to Pennsylvania?
A I believe I met him maybe once or twice at headquarters more than—nothing more than, you know, introduction—"Hi, I'm Angela," "Hi, I'm Mr. Roman," you know.
Q Right. Okay. And did you have any other general understanding of what ​his connection was to the campaign or his previous responsibilities, sort of where he fit?
A Mostly what I knew about him is he was who Michael Brown reported to.
Q Okay.
A Really nothing beyond that.
Q Okay. Did he work in the White House?
A Pardon?
Q Did Mr. Roman work in the White House?
A At one point, I believe, very early in the administration. I have no idea what his role was there.
Q Okay. And did you have any understanding of did he have a connection to Pennsylvania?
A He's from Philadelphia.
Q Okay.
A That's where he resides.
Q Any other understanding of what were his responsibilities in Philadelphia in this post-election period when you were there?
A I don't know his specific job responsibilities while he was there or before or after.
Q Okay.
Okay. Yeah, go ahead.
    BY
Q Just a really quick followup, Ms. McCallum.
When you said earlier, you said you were given addresses and you were looking them up in Google and then plugging them into a spreadsheet, and Mr. Brown asked you to do that. Is that right?
​A That's correct.
Q Do you know what Mr. Brown was going to do with that information?
A I have no idea.
Q And when—I believe you said it was Mr. McGinnis, who was assistant to Mr. Roman, asked you to research what you believe might have been incapacitated voters in Wisconsin. Do you know why he needed that information?
A No. He mentioned someone named Jon, J-o-n, but I don't know who Jon is, so—
Q Mentioned him in the sense that—
A Mentioned in the sense that I believe Peter McGinnis was sending them to Jon, whoever Jon is.
Q And you believe this concerned the State of Wisconsin?
A The list that I received of voters to look up were, I believe, based solely in Wisconsin.
Q And do you know whether Mr. McGinnis was working in Wisconsin at the time?
A I believe he was home with his family for Christmas.
And I also would like to clarify, I did say that Peter McGinnis was Mike Roman's assistant. I have no idea if that's, you know, his official title or not. That's just the role that I saw him acting in. I believe he was a contractor as well, but I'm not entirely sure of his employment status.
Q Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
And when you said Mr. McGinnis, he might have been home with his family, do you know where home was for him for Christmas?
A Somewhere in the Philadelphia area. ​Q Okay. Okay. Thank you.
    BY
Q Okay. So just one more question and then we can take our break.
Going back to the meeting that you were starting to tell us about where you met with Mr. Brown with several of your colleagues in a hotel room about the project regarding calling State and local officials, had Pennsylvania been—the Presidential race in Pennsylvania been called at that point?
A Sorry, could you repeat the question?
Q Sure. The time period that you were starting to tell us about where you met in a hotel room, Mr. Brown gave you the assignment of calling certain State and local elected officials, you recall that that was at the end of November.
A Uh-huh.
Q Is that right? Do you remember that it was after the election, the Presidential election in Pennsylvania, had been called?
Mr. Brothers. Objection, vague. Can you define "called"?
    BY
Q Sure. The—well, your—one of your responsibilities on election night was monitoring the media to determine when each network was calling the race.
A Uh-huh.
Q Announcing their conclusion about who would be the winner in the Presidential race. Is that correct?
A Is that correct that was my role on election night?
Q Yes.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And was Pennsylvania called on election night?
​A I don't remember.
Q Okay.
A I mean, there are 50 States, so—
Q I remember that there were several contested States that weren't called on election night. Is that consistent with your recollection?
A Yes.
Q Yes. And I believe Pennsylvania was one of them that didn't get called immediately. Do you agree with that?
A I agree.
Q Okay. When you—do you remember that there did come a time when the media had announced their conclusion about who would be the winner of the Presidential election in Pennsylvania?
A I believe that they—that they, being the media, had called the entire Presidential nationwide sometime the second week in November. So, yes, by your timeline that would be accurate.
Q Okay. So you remember that your meeting with Mr. Brown occurred after that?
A After the media had determined that Pennsylvania was going to be called for Joe Biden.
Q Okay. And do you remember the secretary of state of Pennsylvania issuing an official result of the election while you were working for the campaign in Pennsylvania?
A I don't have any recollection of when that happened.
Q Okay. Do you—you described for us the process that lawyers for the campaign were collecting affidavits.
​A Uh-huh.
Q Do you have any understanding of what the status was of the Presidential election at that time?
A Can you clarify?
Q Sure. When you were assisting with sorting affidavits and declarations that were being collected by lawyers on behalf of the Trump campaign, do you have a—do you remember what the status was of the Presidential—the Presidential election in Pennsylvania at that time?
Mr. Brothers. Objection, vague. Can you define "status"? That could mean a lot of things.
    BY
Q Sure. Do you agree that there was litigation related to the outcome of the Presidential election in Pennsylvania?
A Do I—I'm sorry. I'm just getting really confused as to what you're asking.
Q Sure.
A Maybe let's just start that question over.
Q Sure. I'm merely trying to establish the timing of when you met with Mr. Brown in the hotel room to discuss the project about calling State and local officials.
A Uh-huh.
Q And I'm trying to determine whether that was after the election result had been officially determined that President—now President Biden had won the State of Pennsylvania.
A I told you that that meeting occurred sometime in the last couple of days of November. As far as being aware of the date when the election was officially or unofficially determined that Pennsylvania would go to President Biden, I don't know ​when officially or unofficially Pennsylvania was called for Joe Biden, so I can't answer that question.
Q Okay. Is it your understanding though that there—the Trump campaign and lawyers supporting the Trump campaign were working to contest the outcome of the official, you know, the official result of the Presidential election in Pennsylvania?
A I stated earlier that I have no idea what was going on on the litigation front for attorneys representing the Trump campaign, so I just—I don't think I can answer that. I don't know.
Okay. Maybe this is a good time to take our break?
Mr. Brothers. Okay.
If that's—Ms. Lofgren, unless you have any questions before we take a brief break?
Ms. Lofgren. No, I'm fine. And how long will the break be, do we think?
Mr. Brothers, do you want to proceed with another sort of similar block of questioning or would you like to take a longer break?
Mr. Brothers. Can we have a conversation—
Yeah.
Mr. Brothers. —about how long you think we're going to be going?
Yeah. Maybe—
Mr. Brothers. I don't know if we need to be on the record.
Yeah, I think we can go off the record now.
[Recess.]