# Deposition of Ali Alexander, (Dec. 9, 2021)/4:31pm

​Mr. Back on. The time is 4:31 p.m.
    BY :
Q So. Mr. Alexander, you said before you weren't working with the Kremers to plan January 6th at any point. That's correct, right? You were planning your own event at—you were planning your own event for January 6th Stop the Steal, correct?
A Yeah, I wasn't directly working with them. I was working with Caroline.
Q Okay. So then we see Caroline. When did Caroline come into the picture for planning January 6th?
A I'm not sure. I think the text messages reflect when she first reached out to me, and then we had a subsequent phone call. And she talked about a unifying effort, ​and she was very nervous because she had had poor interactions with other people. We had a positive interaction. I'm a political professional. I'm not going to say no to, you know, somebody from Trump world. And I folded my event in.
Q And so what people was she bringing in that she told you she was going to bring in for the January 6th event?
A The Kremers—she—I do remember explicitly saying that, you know, like, they want to bring in anybody who had been supportive and they needed help identifying some of those people. And then some of the people she had already spoken to, to the best of my recollection, were obviously the Kremers, Cindy Chafian. And, you know, then she tossed around some other names as prospects, you know, likes Alex Jones and Roger Stone, stuff like that.
Q Was the plan when she brought you in—and I'll—I'm just going to say coalition partners. Is that okay to say?
A Yes.
Q Coalition partners?
A That's fair.
Q When she brought in the coalition partners, was the plan to have one big event? Or was it to have multiple events on January 5th and 6th?
A When we initially talked about it, she needed my expertise on that. And my advice was to do multiple events and—you know, when the decision came down, it was, like, let's do multiple events on multiple days.
Q Why did you want to have—why was it your advice to give—to have multiple events?
A Because as I understand it, again, based off of higher-income consultants and other people who know D.C. better than me and all this other stuff is that it seems ​logistically improbable to have an event near the Capitol with the President of the United States. Secret Service would freak out at something like that.
And so if we were to have an event—and I should say in that first conversation there was the possibility of the President's participation. And that's why—I think that's what kept everybody in line was, you know, if he can participate, then we better do whatever anybody who's a representative of Trump world says. And—
    BY :
Q Let me just stop.
A Yeah.
Q Just she was—Ms. Wren was saying that? She was saying there was the possibility of the President speaking?
A That Trump could participate.
Q Okay. And what did she explain about that and why he was interested in doing that? Do you remember?
A I can't recall. I just remember that being the significant, exciting detail.
Q In that first call she's telling you that.
A I think it was our first call.
Q Yeah. Had she ever called you before?
A No. I think I loosely heard her name because I, again, spent some time in Alabama politics years ago. And—and then I know I looked her up real quick.
Q Just simply, do you know how she got your number?
A I don't recall.
Q Had she talked to Mr. Stone before she talked to you? Do you know?
A I don't recall.
Q Do you know whether she had talked to Mr. Jones, Alex Jones?
​A Before me?
Q Yes.
A I don't know what the order was at all.
Q So it was a call out of the blue.
A I think it was a text message and then a call.
Q Okay. But you knew who she was when you got the message.
A When we talked on the phone.
Q Did you have her in your contacts?
A No.
Q No. So this is Caroline Wren, and then it sets up.
A Yes.
    BY MR.
Q Were you expecting a text from Ms. Caroline Wren at this time?
A When I received one out of the blue?
Q Uh-huh.
A I don't believe so.
Q So no one had given you a heads-up that a random person in Trump world might reach out to you—
A It's possible.
Q —about January 6th?
A It's possible, but I don't recall anybody giving me the heads-up on that. But it's possible that I would have heard rumblings. But I don't—I don't—specifically Caroline Wren, no, I don't recall that.
Q Do you recall the President tweeting you, and then Arthur Schwartz getting Dan or someone else the POTUS access to un-retweet you? Do you recall that?
​A I recall the President's account retweeting me, and I recall that tweet disappearing.
Q Who is Arthur Schwartz?
A Arthur Schwartz is a Jewish Republican individual. I think he does PR, or I'm not sure how you would characterize his services. And he did a lot of work with Don, Jr., Donald Trump, Jr.
Q And in that, "Dan" would refer I assume to Mr. Dan Scavino in the text? So the text, to be clear, is in exhibit 26 at page 102 is where you say this.
A In 102?
Q Yes. I'm just want to make sure that when it says Arthur Schwartz got Dan, we're talking about Dan Scavino.
A Oh, this sounds like—I'm sorry. 102?
Q Yes.
A This sounds like it's me speculating on who the possible—because, you know, it's been widely reported that Trump has access to his Twitter account and Dan has access to his Twitter account. So I relied on public reporting for that. And I—and I actually I've seen Dan use Trump's account for it. So I—I was trying to figure out who lobbied and who did it, or if that was the same person. And I know that Arthur Schwartz hated my guts.
Q Do you recall on December 30th, 2020, going to a meeting at the White House with Mr. Ed Martin?
A When?
Q At the end of December, December 30th, 2020, going to a meeting with Ed Martin, Mr. Ed Martin, at the White House?
A No, I don't believe I was there.
​Q Okay.
A I don't believe I went to the White House at all during Stop the Steal. I went out of my way to not.
Q When planning for January 6th with Ms. Wren, when you were talking to her, was the coalition partners responsible for fundraising on their own?
A No. Not for—no—let me clarify. Not for The Ellipse events.
Q So how did the fundraising work for The Ellipse event?
A I have no idea.
Q How did the fundraising for the Wild Protest event?
A That was all on me.
Q How did you raise funds for the Wild Protest?
A Me and other influencers would tweet out the Donorbox link.
Q Approximately how much money did you raise for the Wild Protest event?
A I don't recall. I have seen an image floating around on the internet, and what I can't figure out is if that figure is for everything that we raised for the website on Stop the Steal, or during a period or for just that cause, because I don't have access to be able to parse that data.
Q Did you receive funds for any of your—did Stop the Steal receive funds from any other entities in planning events on January 5th and 6th?
A I'll think about that, so that I can try to drum up something if there is something.
    BY MR.
Q Why did you go out of your way to stay away from the White House during the Stop the Steal effort?
A I was doing something very unconventional, and I didn't want to play White ​House politics. And I thought it would be a weird or bad look if I disagreed—there are several times when I publicly disagreed with the White House. And when you do that, I think you want to distance and you want your independence. You don't want someone to be able to call you and tell what you to do, and conversely you also don't want to be somebody's whipping boy.
And so I—they weren't paying me. So whenever I'm talking to a State legislator or someone, and saying this is the political fallout, I don't want anyone to think President Trump told this kid to come up and threaten me. I didn't want that to be perceived. So I made sure I didn't go to the White House Christmas party, you know, or anything like that.
Q Were you invited to the White House Christmas party?
A No. But what happens is the White House throws several White House Christmas parties, and it's the last one. So if I wanted an invite, I could have got one.
Q You referred to Dan Scavino as Dan, by his first name. Do you know him?
A We know of each other, you know. We've had positive interactions publicly and privately, and then publicly, I've disagreed with some of his techniques.
Q When what are the private interactions you've had with him?
A It's documented I went to the White House and I believe it's 2019 for a social media summit, and I was in a room with a lot of people. And Dan was there, and I walked in late. And he said, Hey, Ali. And it was very positive. And there was a gentleman who had been blocked, I guess accidentally, by the President's account. And Dan unblocked him.
Q Okay. But did you ever have any other interaction with Dan Scavino other than the social media influencer event in 2019?
A I think the other ones just, you know, remain public, you know.
​Q What does that mean?
A I forgot. He—Trump or the White House or Dan did something that ticked a lot of people off in my community. And, again, this isn't, I don't think, pertinent to January 6th at all. But this was years ago. And he—so we started a campaign to block Dan, to try to get at his ego.
Q Okay.
A And I know that probably ticked him off.
Q So the last time you've actually spoken to Dan Scavino was in 2019.
A I believe so.
Q Did you have his number in your phone?
A No, I don't have his number that I recall.
Q All right. And Arthur Schwartz, is that someone you know?
A I've had a few more interactions with Arthur Schwartz.
Q Did you communicate with him at all about January 6th?
A No, I don't believe so.
Q So when you say you went out of your way to stay away from the White House, did you have anyone in the White House who could have invited you in to come by at that time?
A Anyone of any influence can get a ticket at the—for a White House Christmas party.
Q Okay.
A So that's what I mean by that.
Q But no one in particular that you had a connection with in the White House.
A No, I mean, no. It would be like the broader—no.
Q Was it your perception that President Trump knew who you were?
​A President Trump, when we, the few times that we've seen each other, you know, on campaign rallies and I'll be in a VIP backstage thing or something, you know, we exchange pleasantries, because we had our first positive interaction back in 2014.
Q All right. So is that a yes? It's your impression he knows who you are?
A Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes.
Q And, in fact, I think you've told many people publicly that he referred to you once or at once as you look like Sammy Davis, Jr.?
A Frequently.
Q Okay. All right.
Ms. Frequently he has said that, or frequently you've been told that?
The Witness. Whenever we see each other, he makes—
Ms. He—okay.
The Witness. —the comment to say "Sammy?"
Ms. Got it.
    BY :
Q When's the last time you saw him and interacted with him in that way in person?
A I can't recall. I can't recall the date. I think it was a rally in Minneapolis.
Q Preelection?
A Yeah, certainly.
Q But in the 2020 election?
A I don't know if it was in 2020.
Q You don't know. Okay.
A Yeah.
Q But for the 2020 election cycle?
​A No, I don't know that it was. I mean, it's clearly after he was in the White House. But it could have been 2017 or 2018 or 2019.
Q All right.
A It wasn't in 2017. I can say that. So 2018, 2019, or 2020.
Q And did Ms. Wren in that first phone call—she's saying the President's going to speak on the 6th. Did she say who she was working with from Trump world on the event?
A No, she—I just for clarification, she didn't say that Trump was—
Q Possibility.
A Yeah, possibility.
Q Yes.
A And, no, I—you know, again, you know, I saw her and introduced her on that conference call that we all talked about earlier as like the—with Caroline Wren with the Trump campaign.
Q Did she—okay. Did she ever relay to you at any point between that first call and January 6th who, if anyone, she was working with within Trump world on this—on the events on the 5th and 6th?
A She mentioned passing, you know, she mentioned passing conversations like with Kimberly Guilfoyle and, you know, Oh, I'm talking to Charlie Kirk, and stuff like that. And, you know, she would give me these periodic updates.
Q Did she ever convey to you that she had spoken to President Trump about the events?
A I'm not sure, but that is my impression.
Q Did she ever convey to you that she talked to Don, Jr., the President's son, about the events?
​A I'm not sure, but I assumed so.
    BY :
Q Going back to receiving funds, did Stop the Steal organize buses in various cities to come to D.C. from January 5th and 6th?
A We participated in organizing buses.
Q And who paid for those buses?
A I think it was my understanding that it was ran through Turning Point USA. That was my understanding. And they needed more bodies, and Stop the Steal's just a very popular brand. And, so, if Stop the Steal said, Hey, you know, there's a bus available, it's easier than one of these groups that look more established.
Q Who—
Mr. Oh, I'm sorry. You can go, .
Ms. No, no.
    BY :
Q Who put you in contact with Turning Point USA to organize the buses?
A Caroline Wren.
Q And who did she put you in contact with at Turning Point USA?
A Well, she just mentioned—I know Charlie and I know Tyler. And so, you know, she had mentioned this stuff needs to run through Tyler, and I believe I partnered Nathan with Tyler and said I have no time for this. I'm focused on the Georgia run-off. You guys do this. And where I could, I helped. And where I could, I amplified appeared tweeted and tweeted out bus routes and stuff like that.
Q And Tyler, what's Tyler's last name?
A I think Bower.
Q Bower.
​And so it seems like it was Mr. Martin largely running this bus operation for Stop the Steal for January 6th?
A I would say that we acted as an endorser and an amplifier. And it was hard to call it, you know, Stop the Steal's bus effort. But we definitely wanted to natively market it that way to our audience so that they would feel comfortable participating.
Q Did Stop the Steal pay for the bus fees up front, or did Turning Point USA pay for them?
A I don't think we paid for the bus fees up front. I think—and I don't know. We may have even got one independent bus, but I'm not sure that that ever went through or didn't go through. So I would—I would not know that.
Q So you're not aware of Mr. Martin maybe being reimbursed by Turning Point USA for buses that he may have paid expenses for?
A Yeah, I'm not sure how that all logistically finally finalized.
Mr. Do you have follow-up, ?
    BY :
Q No. I just—it sounds like you're saying that to the extent that buses were paid for with the exception of one possible one that you may have had for Stop the Steal, your involvement in the buses was basically to advertise Turning Point's offering of the bus.
A Yes. And that included—we made our own landing page on Stop the Steal. And we tried to rally, sometimes very unsuccessfully, tried to rally interest in some cities that didn't materialize. But if there was a city that materialized, that would get handed over to Turning Point USA, I believe.
Q And I guess you kind of just said it. But in terms of the mechanics of, if you were signing people up in interest for the buses, was it like a list that you then passed on ​to Turning Point for them to organize the bus? Like what was the—I mean, let me rephrase. What was kind of the mechanism for getting people to sign up and then getting them on a bus?
A I don't think I know the answer past tweeting the link.
Q Okay.
A And then there being an error in a form and me trying to involve myself in it, getting frustrated, and saying this is stupid. I don't want to be involved and saying you guys fix it. So there's, like, a web form problem. I don't know if the list got exported and sent to them, or if we emailed them and said go to this location at this time. I don't know where it ended.
Q When you say you tweet or you emailed somebody "you guys fix it," are you talking about Nathan and Turning Point?
A Nathan and the web team.
Q Okay. The Stop the Steal people.
A Volunteers.
Q Okay.
    BY :
Q You said earlier that when you started planning your event on January 6th, you were not working with the Kremers. Did you do an event with the Kremers in Women for America First in November in Washington, D.C.?
A Yes.
Q Can you—so were you all cosponsors? What was the relationship like in doing the event on November—it is a November 14th event. Is that correct?
A I believe so.
Q It's a March for Trump at Freedom Plaza?
​A Well, it wasn't supposed to be—it's not—it's tough, man. I don't think it's called that.
Q Okay.
A Okay. My understanding is that it's called the Stop the Steal rally.
Q Okay.
A Now what happened is—and my text messages reflect this—is they lobbied me to say let's take Stop the Steal to Washington, D.C. I was very skeptical that we could pull off something like that. We have no funding, no nothing, no nothing. And I'm telling people to go to D.C. in it was either a week's notice or two weeks' notice. Maybe it was two weeks' notice.
And Amy said, Ali, we've been through the permit process. Have you?
And I said, Never.
And they said, Okay. Well, we'll handle it for you. It will be you event. You can pick the run of show and all of that."
What happened is that they, I think, I think amended an existing permit that they had for January. I guess they were going to, like, protest—participate in the inauguration that they had preelection day. And they amended it for whatever. There was—I don't know what was going on and the event slowly got hijacked to the point where their logo is sitting in front of it.
And we were basically blackmailed or threatened that if we got up on stage and plugged the broader coalition, which had a retweet agreement and an agreement that we not put our own independent logos on things, that we would be kicked off an event that was ours. And so, the crowd's understanding was that it was a Stop the Steal event. It's advertised, and its permit probably says Trump March or something silly.
Q So the speakers that spoke at that event were Stop the Steal speakers?
​A Not all of them. I got some of my guys in, and a majority of it was theirs. And then at the Supreme Court they had an event. So they marched over to the Supreme Court and then did a—an event. And I think, you know, maybe one of those people is affiliated with Stop the Steal and the rest were them.
Q So when you say they did an event, did Women for America First have an event at the Supreme Court—
A Yes.
Q —or did Stop—okay. So Stop The Steal did not have the event at the Supreme Court?
A No, not at all.
Q Did you all coordinate the November 14th event with anyone from the Trump campaign?
A I don't believe so at all. It was very grassroots.
Q And did you all coordinate the event with—I think you've been using the term together but I want to make sure—with the White House? Did anyone from the White House coordinate the November 14th event with you?
A I don't believe so.
Q Do you recall President Trump running by in his vehicle, in his motorcade, passing the November 14th event?
A I heard about that after the event.
Q So you weren't aware that was going to happen before?
A Not at all.
Q And you said that you didn't have any money or the two weeks' notice. How did you all raise money for the event on November 14th?
A Tweeting.
​Q And how did the money actually come in though? How it was donated to you?
A Through Donorbox.
Q Okay. Through the stopthesteal.us?
A Yeah, I believe so, unless that aligns with my, you know, personal website. But I think we were trying to get away from that as soon as possible, yeah, so.
Q Did you and Women for America First have an agreement that they would raise certain funds and you would raise certain funds?
A No. Because they, after I let them—after I had authorized them to get a permit on behalf of Stop the Steal, they started ghosting us, claimed that someone had died in the family, proceeded to get into fights. And then it was a big question of, well, how is everything getting paid for if you're not asking me to raise the money or transfer money. And that was a weird, bizarre thing.
So what I should clarify and say is Stop the Steal funds for November 14th were mainly used for travel expenses. We didn't pay for the staging. We didn't pay for any of that other stuff, Porta Potties. And, you know, so we didn't have an agreement. There was just—it was a—yeah.
    BY :
Q Real quick. I wanted to go back because it sounds like you said if it wasn't my personal website. Did you—you had a personal website for fundraising, or maybe I misunderstood.
A That we've talked about before. So alialexander.org. The first part is Stop the Steal where it's basically, I'm a one-man show, recruiting people into it. And my existing customers and my existing donors are mainly donating to me, but then some people who see my tweets, and some of my friends are recommending that people ​donate to me so I can pay for their flights. That's that first part of November, and I don't know what the cutoff date is.
Q Oh, okay. So it's alialexander.org prior to Stop the Steal. And you're—when you were talking about prior to Stop the Steal is my personal fundraising, it's through that web page, alialexander.org?
A Yes.
Q And did you have a PayPal link on there?
A Yeah, there's a PayPal—I think there's a PayPal's and a couple other links. But PayPal's the one—I think I know that there was a link to PayPal.
Q Okay. And other than PayPal, do you remember any of the other links on there or—
A No.
Q —what type of payment it was?
A I—I wouldn't be certain. I just know that there was—there was—this site was mainly a content locker for my customers. There are people who can't afford my consulting services but want my analysis. So I do a monthly call with them.
And so some people like to pay over the top. So that's why all that information had already been listed for, you know, a year or 2 years. And so when everyone's, like, Ali needs to start Stop the Steal, my donors and my customers are, like, start Stop the Steal. We'll give you money to buy flights and stuff for people. I'm, like, okay.
So, like, I'm the first donor to Stop the Steal. My customers are the second donors to Stop the Steal. My friends who want to participate, their audiences are the nexus for donating to Stop the Steal. And that's when I said, okay. Well if my friends are recommending their readers to me that don't follow me, this even we need to formalize this entity.
​Q Okay. So this is—so alialexander.org is when you were referring to the personal stuff prior to Stop the Steal in November 2020. Then you create the entity. At that point you start the Donorbox. Everything fundraised in November under Stop the Steal is through Donorbox. Do I have that right?
A Not so—my effort to Stop the Steal pre-formalization is November 4th like at 1:00 p.m. Immediately start pointing people to my personal site. It isn't until November 7th or 10th that we formalize Stop the Steal.
Q Oh, okay. You create Stop the Steal, and for that brief period of time from the 4th to the 7th you're still putting people to alialexander.org for fundraising because you don't have yet have the LLC.
A Right.
Q Then on the 7th, you get the LLC. You set up Donorbox, Stripe, et cetera, and going forward—
A The 7th or the 10th or something like that?