# Deposition of Ali Alexander, (Dec. 9, 2021)/4:54pm

​[4:54 p.m.]
The Witness. 7th or the 10th, or something like that. Okay.
Ms. That's probably fine.
At that point, you set up the Donorbox, Stripe, et cetera, and now it's going through that for the Stop the Steal, LLC?
The Witness. Yes. And I don't know how many days that process takes, because sometimes, like, Stripe can take 3 days to confirm you.
Ms. I understand those aren't exact dates. That's helpful.
    BY :
Q At this rally in November, the November the 14th rally, did you engage with the First Amendment Praetorians for security?
A The November rally? Yes.
Q Who are the First Amendment Praetorians?
A They—I'm trying to think who recommended them to me. I don't know if it was Tracy Beanz, B-e-a-n-z, or—and Tracy with a y—or if it was someone else.
And someone said, "Do we have security?" So speakers started asking about security. I'm thinking, again, how can we raise this money? You know, I was like, we're buying people's flights. We're buying hotels. I don't want to stay at the Willard. Everyone's staying at the Willard. This is, okay, you guys are going to have to, like, you know, sleep two to a room.
And so then we started worrying about security. And so I think it was—it was either Tracy who recommended them, or someone said that Tracy had used them in the past.
Anyway, I was like, okay. And I don't know who set up a call or how I reached ​out, but they just said it was their vision to protect the First Amendment. A lot of them are ex-Special Forces or a pay grade above, like, the regular dudes. And so then they were involved.
Q Who is Tracy? Ms. Tracy Beanz, who is that?
A She's a blogger, journalist.
Q Okay. So it sounds like the First Amendment Praetorians provided event security for the November 14th event?
A For the Stop the Steal Coalition, not Women for America First, who had basically taken the position that they were going to occupy my permit.
Q So did you coordinate with Mr. Robert Patrick Lewis for the security?
A I actually think what happened is I tasked Nathan with coordinating with Rob and a gentleman who went by the name Yoda, and—
Q Okay. And what services or expertise did you think that the First Amendment Praetorians were offering?
A Just a general detail protection. Like, I think a lot of security in political circles is just moving you through a large crowd. So it's you with supporters, but to be prepared, if somebody comes and assaults you, to exit you from that situation.
Q So why did you use the Oath Keepers in January, but use the First Amendment Praetorians in November?
A I stopped using 1AP, is what they're short for, in—shortly, I think—I think Atlanta might have been our last efforts with them.
Q And that's around the time Mr. Rhodes reached out to you, correct, with those messages you went over earlier?
A Yeah. Coincidentally, I actually put that together, but yeah.
Q And why did you stop using 1AP?
​A I think that they became—it was weird. I think that there was some logistical conflict or whatever, because the agreement with them was, if you tweet out their link, you don't have to pay them. And so we tweeted out their link, but then I heard through the grapevine that they weren't happy with me. And I'm like, "Tell me what you want me to tweet and I'll tweet it."
And so some conflict happened somewhere down the chain of command between my folks and their folks. When I reached out to try to figure out what it was, I got stonewalled, and that was just very abnormal to me.
And so then, like, for example, I went to Lansing, Michigan, because the Republican electors were meeting, and we wanted to support them, or something like that. And the 1AP people wouldn't show up for me.
So then I either called or had someone else call Stewart Rhodes and said, "Do you have a guy up there?" And then there was a veteran who met us at the Lansing site.
Q And so it sounds like you didn't pay the First Amendment Praetorians for the November 14th event?
A Yeah. I don't know if we made a donation or not. It's very possible that we made a donation on top of tweeting out their links, but the agreement was tweet out their link and crowd fundraise for them.
Q Do you recall working with any congressional Members for the November 14th event?
A No, I don't recall that.
Q Do you recall a conversation where you told Ms. Amy Kremer that Congressman Mike Kelly is taken care of, they don't want to be annoyed with multiple points of contact? And I'm assuming that's because you were the point of contact?
A The point of contact was Rose Tennett—
​Q Gotcha. Okay.
A —who was part of Stop the Steal Coalition, and she was not a fan of the Kremers.
Q Okay.
Mr. Anything else?
    BY :
Q Did you go up to the Supreme Court after the event at Freedom Plaza?
A I did walk, or march, whatever, over from Freedom Plaza to the Supreme Court after the series of Stop the Steal speeches were done.
Q And you talked about earlier this morning what the security posture around the Capitol looked like on that day, in November. Do you remember just generally—
A In November?
Q Yeah. In November—
A For the Capitol?
Q Yeah. As you walked past. Because you contrasted the 6th, if you remember earlier, about where the barricades were further out, I think, compared to the times in November—
A Oh, no. I'm sorry. I was talking about the city's barricades.
Q Oh.
A Not the Capitol barricades.
Q Not the Capitol particularly?
A Yeah.
Q Okay. All right.
Any reason particular reason that you know of that people organized at the Supreme Court that day versus anywhere else?
​A It's a popular place to organize. The second fact is that you don't—there is no permitting process for it.
And it's something that they had done before. And so the Kremers had done something, you know, for Justice Barrett, and their last, you know, little rah-rah was at the Supreme Court. So I think that they wanted to kind of relive some of that.
A lot of people love that shot. I've never—I had never previously, you know, attended any Washington, D.C., protests at the Supreme Court to my knowledge.
Q And is the upshot of November that that's it for you working with the Kremers?
A Yes.
Q All right.
    BY :
Q Real quick on that.
It sounds like you said there was some problem with the First Amendment Praetorians where—but did you ever figure out or have conversations like, "What happened there?"
A No. And still to this day I'm wondering why two—who—where did the relationship sour, because they treated me like a son, you know.
And they were extremely professional. They were extremely on point. And I was trying to figure out how they were just giving all these services, I don't want to say for free, because we were very popular people tweeting out their link, so we raised them a lot of money. But that was a huge leap of faith.
Q How did you know that you raised them a lot of money? Did you have conversations with them about—
A It was on a public fundraising page.
​Q Do you remember which page?
A Not at all?
Q Was it GiveSendGo?
A I don't think GiveSendGo existed then.
Q RallyPay?
A I'm really not sure.
Q Okay. I thought maybe it like—
A Yeah.
Q If it—
A I'm sorry.
Q If it was a remembering thing.
And you said you might have made a donation to the First Amendment Praetorians. Would you have done that, or would Nathan have done that?
A I don't recall.
Q Would Nathan have done that without your approval?
A With my money?
Q Yeah. Did he have the ability—
A No.
Q —to just make donations without you—
A I'm sure he had the ability, but he wouldn't, you know.
Q Do you remember making donations to First Amendment Praetorians?
A I don't. I do remember, in my process of trying to make things right or trying to be supportive or whatever, that that is something I have frequently done with causes I believe in in the past.
Q If you had done that, would you have personally done that, or would Stop ​the Steal or alialexander.org have donated the money?
A My guess is that I personally would have done that. That's my guess, and that, to me, makes sense.
Q And, sorry, just to tie a bow on that, you went to working with the Oath Keepers because you never got—you never heard back from First Amendment Praetorians?
A We didn't go to—we worked with Oath Keepers—I shouldn't say we worked with them.
Stewart Rhodes provided me a Michigan contact, and—but, like, in Chicago, I hired my own security. When I went back to Atlanta, I don't know who we used. In Arizona I used, I think, nobody, or we—or we—we hired someone out.
So I didn't—Oath Keepers wasn't following me around. And they made a promise that they could provide people everywhere, but, really, that just kind of fell short. And I only have secondhand knowledge of that, because, again, those are other details.
It's like, if Ali is going somewhere, somebody around me would say, "Go find him security," and we stopped using 1AP. Oath Keepers sometimes was unresponsive or couldn't provide somebody in their veterans group, and so we hire security.
    BY MR. :
Q Did you ever use the Proud Boys?
A Me, I don't think so. I don't believe so at all.
Q Did you ever—do you know of Mr. Enrique Tarrio?
A Yes, I do.
Q Did you ever use him to come speak at an event?
A I had never invited him to an event, I believe, and—but he—you know, we ​saw each other in Atlanta. We saw each other in D.C.
You know, a lot of people run into each other. I do know Atlanta, for example, one of the days—one of the smaller days—I gave him a shout-out. He was standing—I saw him standing on the sidelines, and I could tell he wanted a shout-out. If I didn't give him a shout-out, then, you know, there might be, "Oh, Ali is being a megalomaniac" or something, and I didn't want that. So I gave him a shout-out, and—yeah.
Q Okay. So you never—it's your testimony that you never, like, reached out to the Proud Boys for them to provide event or personal security for you?
A Yeah, that's my testimony. There was one night in either November or December where I was walking, and the Proud Boys asked if I wanted an escort. And I think that they escorted me three blocks.
Q Okay.
Ms. How do you find these security teams? Like, you said you go to a city, you're looking for them. I think you mentioned you found someone in Chicago. How do you find them?
The Witness. Just google security firms, and a lot of police officers don't make enough money at their day job, so they will moonlight as security officers or bouncers.
And the good thing about professional security is they don't ask you your politics. You don't know if they agree with you or not. And so I know that I've had several, you know, security members where I don't know their political beliefs, and I don't know that they agree with me.
Ms. Is that how you found First Amendment Praetorians?
The Witness. No. I've described how I best recollect finding 1AP.
Ms. Oh, okay. I apologize. That's just my bad memory if that was on the record.
    BY MR.
Q So I believe you said the upshot of the November 14th event was you were no longer working with Women for America First. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q So on the December 12th rally—I believe this was the Jericho March, right?
A Yes.
Q Who were you—who did this event? Who did Stop the Steal do this event with?
A We joined in on an existing event at The National Mall. The Women for America First was still doing something elsewhere, and we did—and that was with the Jericho March, which is a Christian-based group.
Q Okay. And who was in charge of the Jericho March Christian-based group that you coordinated with?
A A gentleman named Rob—and I can't remember his last name—and a lovely woman named Arina. And I think her last name starts with a G. It might be Arina—
Q Is it Grossu?
A That sounds—I think she's Italian or something.
Q Okay. And for the December 12th rally, the Jericho March, did you help pick speakers for that March?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Did you have more creative control over the speaker list for that march?
A Yes.
Q Did you coordinate the speakers through, like, the Trump campaign at all?
A No.
​Q And did you talk to the White House about any of the speakers for the Jericho March?
A I don't believe so.
Q Did you coordinate with Members of Congress to be speakers for the Jericho March?
A I think we would have definitely reached out. And in talking with you right now, I can't recall anyone who was on stage that was a Member—that was an elected Member. And I—
Q I'm sorry. Who do you think you reached out to?
A Oh, I definitely would have reached out to Congressman Gosar. You know, I've tweeted that he's my spirit animal—or he was the movement's spirit animal. But I think he was out of town, so I don't think he—so I don't recall any Members—elected Members. And it was broadcasted nationally, so I don't think it would be hard to figure out who the speakers were. But I don't remember any Members of Congress speaking.
Q And did you, for this march—it was on The National Mall. Did you all march to the Capitol or Supreme Court on this first march?
A I don't believe so. The term Jericho March is a Biblical term, and it deals with the whole religious thing that—event that happened that was a literal march.
So I understand that early, early in the morning, they had marched around the Supreme Court, I believe, and that was way too early for my participation. But the event didn't break up and then walk somewhere or march somewhere or anything like that.
Q So you only participated in events on The National Mall on December 12th?
A I believe so. I don't know what I was doing at night, but—
Q But you weren't at the Supreme Court or the Capitol the night of December—
​A I don't believe so. I might have walked over to Supreme Court, but I don't think I participated in an event.
Q So there was an event at the Supreme Court on December 12th?
A My guess is that there could have been one, you know, because there's all kinds of groups, you know.
Q But not one that Stop the Steal had organized?
A No.
Q Okay.
A Not to—no.
Q How did you and the Jericho March, how did you all fundraise for the December 12th event?
A That was weird. Again, it was like Stop the Steal needed to fundraise money for travel for our people, hotels for our people, expenses for our people.
And then we also helped Jericho March fundraise. And they had a link on their page, you know, I think jerichomarch.org or whatever. And so we helped them fundraise by making—because they—again, Stop the Steal is a popular brand, and not a lot of people knew who Jericho March was.
Q When you say "our people," do you mean the speakers that you coordinated to have speak on December 12th?
A I mean the influencers that associate themselves with the Stop the Steal movement.
Q The ones that you kind of listed out earlier chosen—
A Yes.
Q Okay.
Ms. Real quick. That was December 12th, after you had created Stop the ​Steal. So to the extent that you were fundraising for that, would it have gone through the Donorbox link?
The Witness. Yes, it should have?
Ms. Okay.
The Witness. I can't see why it wouldn't.
    BY :
Q Were you aware—or you remember President Trump flying over the protests on December 12th in his helicopter.
A I do.
Q Did you have any advance notice that that was going to happen?
A I think it's weird. It's like I'm trying to figure out how I would have heard that, or if someone heard it and then told me, because then I started telling everybody.
And so, yeah, I definitely was spreading the word around and backstage prior to the—to Marine One actually flying over.
Q So you were aware before Marine One—
A Yes.
Q —flew over that it was going to happen?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall around what time you became aware that President Trump was going to fly over in Marine One? Was it morning? Early afternoon? Do you know when?
A I think shortly right before it happened.
Q And you don't recall who told you?
A I don't. I don't know if I heard in person or text or whatever. But I was—I remember being super excited. I remember General Mike Flynn was speaking on our ​stage. And so I think I found out contemporaneously during his long speech.
Q Okay.
    BY MR.
Q Were you a witness personally to any of the what I'll call the drama between the Kremers and Alex Jones around December, just yes or no?
A I don't believe so.
Q Do you know anything about that?
A I think I've read a report recently on it.
Q But you weren't personally witness to any of it?
A I don't believe so.
Q Okay.
Ms. Do you—oh, sorry.
Mr. Yeah.
When did you—are you still on December?
Ms. Uh-huh.
Mr. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. That was all I had.
Ms. Oh, actually, I think mine was funding related to January, so—
Mr. Yeah. I was just going to—just to square it off—you tell me if you've covered this already.
    BY MR.
Q Did we—we saw I think a tweet around December 16th where you said Stop the Steal is coming back to D.C.
Does that timing sound about right, before the President said the "wild" protest?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And the Kremers, also that same day, said they were coming back to ​D.C. on January 6th. Do you remember that they—
A No, I don't. I thought theirs was also December 19th.
Q No.
A It's news to me.
Q So when the President released or did the wild protest, did you have any foreknowledge he was going to do that?
A No.
Q Okay. And, afterwards, did you ever hear from someone whether—when he tweeted on the 19th for the wild protest—whether he was referring to Stop the Steal or the Kremers or anyone in particular?
A I assumed just until this moment that it could only be Stop the Steal, because I was—literally everyone was going to capitals, and I had had a conversation—a direct conversation with, you know, Paul Gosar. And so I just figured the President had to be tweeting about, you know, our presence or us.
Q And that's the coalition broadly, or you in particular and the people you were with?
A The Stop the Steal Coalition and the influencers that I mentioned that, you know, we deployed to these various States.
Q Okay. And then, you know, understand how Ms. Wren comes onto the scene. She texted you, and you had that conversation. And just in brief, it sounds like it was just a continuing conversation trying to work out how the coalition will work together for all of these events on the 5th and 6th. Is that fair?
A That sounds fair.
Q All right. And in terms of the working dynamic, again, just so I know, you weren't communicating with the Kremers. You were going through Caroline Wren.
​A Yes.
Q And that's a reflection of what had happened back in November at that first event?
A Yes.
Q And the plan—we talked about right when we started the deposition about how you walked, marched, whatever you want to call it, from the Ellipse to the Capitol, and that when it actually happened you were with Alex Jones and Owen Shroyer. Am I right?
A [Nonverbal response.]
Q When did you come to know that you were going to make that movement, walk with them, those two particular men? Was it just the morning of January 6th, or had that always been the plan, that the three of you together would walk up there?
A There was no plan for Owen to walk with us.
Q Okay.
A I don't know when there was a plan. I wouldn't even call it a plan. The idea that Roger Stone, myself, and Alex Jones would go at the end of Trump's speech and position ourselves at the front of the overflow crowd and figuring out how logistically that worked so we didn't have to go out the same exit as everybody was something that Caroline Wren first proposed to me—don't know when—and I thought, okay, cool idea.
Q But before the morning of the 6th?
A Certainly we talked about the idea, yeah.
Q Okay. And did you ever talk with Mr. Jones about this before the morning of the 6th, this plan to march or walk, whatever you call it?
A I'm not sure.
Q Is it possible you did and you just don't remember?
​A It's possible.
Q Is Mr. Jones someone you would speak to on the phone, only in person, or what was the nature of the relationship?
A Yeah, I would speak on the phone. I appeared on his show a few times. I could call a security guard if I couldn't get ahold of his head of security. I could call if I didn't get ahold of Alex.
Q Is that Tim Enlow?
A I know his name is Tim.
Q Okay. And for the record, E-n-l-o-w.
And so what do you remember before January 6th about Mr. Jones telling you, if you do remember anything, about walking from the Ellipse to the Capitol? Do you remember him saying anything about that event?
A No.
Q All right. So you've never heard it from his lips to you that he spoke with someone in the White House or Trump about him walking from the Ellipse to the Capitol?
A I don't recall anything like that.
Q Okay. Now, are you aware that he said publicly that that happened, that he had—that he was told by Trump to walk from the Capitol—from the Ellipse to the Capitol?
A I'm not aware of that. Alex is prone to exaggeration and/or could have been referencing Caroline Wren.
Q Understood. When it comes to Mr. Stone, do you know—he has said publicly that he was told, whether by Trump or the White House, that he was going to lead or be a part of leading the walk from the Ellipse to the Capitol. Are you aware that he said that publicly?
​A I believe so.
Q All right. Did he ever talk to you about that before January 6th, what his thoughts or what his beliefs were about what was going to happen in terms of that march?
A Not to the best of my recollection.
Q So whether anybody—whether Trump or the White House told him that he was going to be part of that march?
A Again, I think this was an idea, as best that I understood it, that originated with Caroline, pinged off me, I said okay, and then was given to Alex and Roger, if it was given to them at all. I could have given—I could have talked to them about it.
Q That's why we're asking.
A Okay. Yeah, I don't know.
Q We're trying to understand.
A Yeah. And I don't know what the play by play of all of that was.
Q Was it your understanding that Mr. Jones, from what you observed, that on the morning of January 6th thought that he was going to be speaking that day?
A Yes.
    BY MS.
Q Really quickly, do you know a woman named Cindy Chafian?
A Yes.
Q And did you have any conversations with her about the events on January 5th or 6th?
A Yeah. She was the main organizer for the 5th.
Q When you say, like, main organizer, what do you mean? Like, how would you describe her role? What does she do?
A You know, she—she took care of all the vendors. And I, again, provided the committee with documentation showing an agreement between Stop the Steal; her group, 80 Percent Coalition; and a pastoral group called, I think, called Peaceably Assemble, and we divided the stage times up, but essentially, Cindy was the head honcho. You know, the permit was under her name. And—and then I believe the Trump campaign was represented for all of our blocks by Katrina Pierson and some other people that—again, better documented in what I've provided you all.
Q What's your understanding of who paid for or funded January 5th?
A Well, I know we had to pay our own bill, so the Stop the Steal portion of—of our—of our—of our thing, we paid for. And, you know, Cindy made reference to a donor, a client. Maybe she said client and not donor. I'm not—I'm not really sure, but—but—and then Alex had teamed up with her to make sure that Alex would have speaking time.
Q This is separate from any conversations about—brokering a deal about the Ellipse, because I've read press reports that people were given the 5th as a consolation prize. And that's just ridiculous—ridiculous according to my understanding of the events.
​Q So just to make sure. Did you produce records regarding your payments related to January 5th and what Stop the Steal—
A I believe so.
Q —paid for? Okay. I'm just asking, because I haven't seen it.
And it's your understanding that Cindy had a donor or a client, but do you know who that was?
A I—I—I don't know definitively who it is. I have seen press reports recently of who it may be, but I did not know at the time, and I did not ask.
Q Okay. And it's your understanding that Alex Jones also paid for events on the 5th?
A Yes. And—yeah. That—that was what he said, actually, is what I should say. That was what he said.
Q Okay. And do you know a woman named Julie Fancelli?
A I don't know her.
Q You don't know her. Were you—was her name mentioned to you by anyone?
A If—I don't believe so. I don't believe so, but, if it was, it would have been in passing. I know that I, you know, didn't probe, haven't done a call to my knowledge with her. I haven't done a call with someone where I—where she may have secretly been on the phone call that I'm aware of. I've stayed away from all of that.
We did small-dollar fundraising on Twitter using DonorBox, and I paid for my crap, and everyone else had to pay for theirs.
Ms. Okay.
Mr. We can take a break.
Mr. Yeah, we can take a break.