# Anna Karenina (Dole)/Part Four/Chapter 10

CHAPTER X
Pestsof, who liked to discuss a question thoroughly, was not satisfied with what Koznuishef had said; he felt that he had not been allowed to express his thought sufficiently.
"In speaking of the density of the population," said he, after the soup, addressing Alekseï Aleksandrovitch, "I did n't intend to make it the principle of an assimilation, but only a means."
"It seems to me that that amounts to the same thing," replied Karenin, slowly and indolently. "In my judgment, a people can have no influence over another people unless it has the highest development which...."
"That is precisely the question," interrupted Pestsof, who always spoke with so much ardor that he seemed to put his whole soul into defending his own opinions ​"How is one to decide on what is the highest development? Which stands on the highest plane of civilization, the English, the French, or the Germans? Which nation is to naturalize the others? We have seen the Rhine made French; but are the Germans inferior? No; there is some other law," he cried in his bass voice.
"I believe that the balance will always turn in favor of true civilization," said Alekseï Aleksandrovitch, slightly raising his brows.
"But what are the signs of this true civilization?" demanded Pestsof.
"I suppose these signs are known," replied Alekseï Aleksandrovitch.
"But are they really known?" suggested Sergyeï Ivanovitch, with a subtle smile. "It is now admitted that our present civilization can't be anything else than classical, but we have furious debates on this point, and it cannot be denied that each side brings forward strong proofs in its favor."
"Are you in favor of the classics, Sergyeï Ivanovitch?" said Oblonsky "Shall I give you some claret?"
"I am not expressing my personal opinions regarding either form of civilization," replied Koznuishef, with a smile of condescension such as he would have shown a child, as he reached out his glass. "I only say that both sides have strong arguments," continued he, addressing Alekseï Aleksandrovitch. "My education was classical; but in this controversy I personally cannot find any room to stand. I do not see any clear proofs that the classics must take precedence over the sciences."
"The natural sciences tend just as much to the pedagogical development of the human mind," replied Pestsof. "Take astronomy, take botany, and zoology, each with its system of general laws!"
"It seems to me impossible to deny that the very process of learning the forms of languages has a specially beneficial influence on mental development. Moreover, it must be admitted that the influence of the classic writers is eminently moral; while, unfortunately ​for us, the study of the natural sciences has been complicated with false and fatal doctrines, which are the bane of our time."
Sergyeï Ivanovitch was going to reply, but Pestsof interrupted him in his deep voice. He began heatedly to demonstrate the incorrectness of this statement. Koznuishef calmly waited his chance to speak, evidently feeling that it would be a victorious rejoinder.
"But," said he, smiling shrewdly, and addressing Alekseï Aleksandrovitch, "it cannot be denied that it is a difficult matter completely to balance all the advantages and disadvantages of the two systems of science, and that the question which is preferable could not be decided so quickly and definitely if there were not on the side of the classical civilization that advantage which you just called the moral—disons le mot—the anti-nihilistic influence."
"Undoubtedly."
"If it were not for this advantage of the anti-nihilistic influence wielded by classic education, we should rather hesitate, we should weigh the arguments of both sides," said Sergyeï Ivanovitch, with his shrewd smile. "We should give scope to both tendencies. But now we know that in classical education lies the medical power of anti-nihihsm and we boldly administer it like a pill to our patients But are we perfectly sure of the healing properties of these pills?" he said in conclusion, pouring out his Attic salt.
Sergeï Ivanovitch's "pills" made every one laugh, Turovtsuin more boisterously and heartily than the rest; for he had been on the lookout for something amusing to laugh at ever since the conversation began.
Stepan Arkadyevitch had made no mistake in counting on Pestsof. Pestsof never allowed an intellectual conversation to flag for a moment. Koznuishef had hardly finished with his jest when Pestsof began again:—
"One cannot even agree with this idea," said he, "that morality has this aim. Morality is evidently controlled by general considerations and remains indifferent to the influences of the measures which may be ​taken. For example, the question of higher education for women should be regarded as dangerous, yet the government opens the public lectures and the universities to women."
And the conversation immediately leaped to the new theme of the education of women.
Alekseï Aleksandrovitch expressed the thought that the education of women was too much confused with the question of the emancipation of women, and could be considered dangerous only from that point of view.
"I believe, on the contrary, that these two questions are intimately connected," said Pestsof. "It is a vicious circle! Woman is deprived of rights because she is deprived of education, and her lack of education comes from the absence of rights. Let us not forget that the bondage of woman is so ancient, so interwoven with our customs, that we are very often incapable of understanding the legal abyss that separates her from us."
"You speak of rights," said Sergyeï Ivanovitch, as soon as he had a chance to put in a word;" is it a right to fulfil the functions of juror, of municipal counselor, of president of the tribunal, of public functionary, of member of parliament?" ....
"Without doubt."
"But if women can exceptionally fill these functions, then it seems to me we make a mistake in using the word rights. It would be fairer to say duties. Every one agrees that in fulfilling the functions of a juror, of town counselor, of telegraph employer, we are fulfilling a duty. Let us say, then, that women are seeking for duties, and legitimately enough; in this case we may sympathize with their desire to take part in man's work."
"That is perfectly fair," affirmed Alekseï Aleksandrovitch; "the question, I suspect, consists in deciding whether they are capable of fulfilling these duties."
"They will be, certainly, as soon as they have been generally educated," said Stepan Arkadyevitch. "We see it ...."
"And the proverb?" asked the old prince, whose little, scornful eyes shone as he listened to this conver​sation. "I may repeat it before my daughters: 'Long hair....'"
"That is the way we judged the negroes before their emancipation!" said Pestsof, with dissatisfaction.
"What astonishes me," said Sergyeï Ivanuitch, "is that women are seeking new duties, when we see, unfortunately, that men generally shirk theirs."
"Duties are accompanied by rights; honor, influence, money, these are what women are after," said Pestsof.
"Exactly as if I solicited the right to become a wet nurse, and found it hard to be refused, while women are paid for it," said the old prince.
Turovtsuin burst out laughing, and Sergyeï Ivanovitch regretted that he had not said that. Even Alekseï Aleksandrovitch smiled.
"Yes, but a man can't be a wet nurse," said Sergyeï Ivanuitch, "But a woman ...."
"But what is a young girl without any family going to do?" asked Stepan Arkadyevitch, who found reason to sympathize with Pestsof, as he thought of his little ballet girl, Chibisovaya.
"If you look closely into the lives of these young girls," said Darya Aleksandrovna, unexpectedly taking part in the conversation and showing some irritation, for it was evident that she suspected what sort of women Stepan Arkadyevitch meant, "you will doubtless find that they have left a family or a sister, and that women's work was within their reach."
"But we are defending a principle, an ideal," answered Pestsof, in his ringing bass. "Woman claims the right to be independent and educated; she suffers from her consciousness of being unable to accomplish this."