# Elizabeth, Lady Thurles

Elizabeth Poyntz (1587–1673), known as Lady Thurles, was the mother of the Irish statesman and Royalist commander James Butler, 1st Duke of Ormonde.

## Birth and origins

Elizabeth was born in 1587 at Iron Acton, Gloucestershire, England, the second daughter of Sir John Pointz and his second wife Elizabeth Sydenham. Her father was probably knighted in 1588, and surely before 1593. He was lord of the manor of Iron Acton. He died in 1633, apparently intestate and insolvent.
Elizabeth's mother was a daughter of Alexander Sydenham of Luxborough, Somerset. She died in childbed in 1595.
Family tree :
| John of Kilcash d. 1570 | John of Kilcash d. 1570 | John of Kilcash d. 1570 | John of Kilcash d. 1570 | John of Kilcash d. 1570 | John of Kilcash d. 1570 | | | Katherine MacCarthy | Katherine MacCarthy | Katherine MacCarthy | Katherine MacCarthy | Katherine MacCarthy | Katherine MacCarthy | | | | | Nicholas Poyntz d. 1585 | Nicholas Poyntz d. 1585 | Nicholas Poyntz d. 1585 | Nicholas Poyntz d. 1585 | Nicholas Poyntz d. 1585 | Nicholas Poyntz d. 1585 | | | | | | | | |
| | | Walter 11th Earl 1559 – 1633 'Beads' | Walter 11th Earl 1559 – 1633 'Beads' | Walter 11th Earl 1559 – 1633 'Beads' | Walter 11th Earl 1559 – 1633 'Beads' | Walter 11th Earl 1559 – 1633 'Beads' | Walter 11th Earl 1559 – 1633 'Beads' | | | Helen Butler d. 1631 | Helen Butler d. 1631 | Helen Butler d. 1631 | Helen Butler d. 1631 | Helen Butler d. 1631 | Helen Butler d. 1631 | | | John Pointz d. 1633 | John Pointz d. 1633 | John Pointz d. 1633 | John Pointz d. 1633 | John Pointz d. 1633 | John Pointz d. 1633 | | | Elizabeth Sydenham (d. 1595) | Elizabeth Sydenham (d. 1595) | Elizabeth Sydenham (d. 1595) | Elizabeth Sydenham (d. 1595) | Elizabeth Sydenham (d. 1595) | Elizabeth Sydenham (d. 1595) |
| | | | | | | Thomas Viscount Thurles d. 1619 d.v.p.* | Thomas Viscount Thurles d. 1619 d.v.p.* | Thomas Viscount Thurles d. 1619 d.v.p.* | Thomas Viscount Thurles d. 1619 d.v.p.* | Thomas Viscount Thurles d. 1619 d.v.p.* | Thomas Viscount Thurles d. 1619 d.v.p.* | | | Elizabeth Pointz 1587–1673 | Elizabeth Pointz 1587–1673 | Elizabeth Pointz 1587–1673 | Elizabeth Pointz 1587–1673 | Elizabeth Pointz 1587–1673 | Elizabeth Pointz 1587–1673 | | | George Mathew d. 1636 | George Mathew d. 1636 | George Mathew d. 1636 | George Mathew d. 1636 | George Mathew d. 1636 | George Mathew d. 1636 | | | | |
| James 1st Duke 1610–1688 | James 1st Duke 1610–1688 | James 1st Duke 1610–1688 | James 1st Duke 1610–1688 | James 1st Duke 1610–1688 | James 1st Duke 1610–1688 | | | Elizabeth Preston 1615–1684 | Elizabeth Preston 1615–1684 | Elizabeth Preston 1615–1684 | Elizabeth Preston 1615–1684 | Elizabeth Preston 1615–1684 | Elizabeth Preston 1615–1684 | | | Theobald d. 1699 | Theobald d. 1699 | Theobald d. 1699 | Theobald d. 1699 | Theobald d. 1699 | Theobald d. 1699 | | | Margaret | Margaret | Margaret | Margaret | Margaret | Margaret | | |
| | | Thomas 6th Earl Ossory 1633–1680 d.v.p.* | Thomas 6th Earl Ossory 1633–1680 d.v.p.* | Thomas 6th Earl Ossory 1633–1680 d.v.p.* | Thomas 6th Earl Ossory 1633–1680 d.v.p.* | Thomas 6th Earl Ossory 1633–1680 d.v.p.* | Thomas 6th Earl Ossory 1633–1680 d.v.p.* | | | Emilia von Nassau 1635–1688 | Emilia von Nassau 1635–1688 | Emilia von Nassau 1635–1688 | Emilia von Nassau 1635–1688 | Emilia von Nassau 1635–1688 | Emilia von Nassau 1635–1688 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| XXX | XXX | XXX | XXX | XXX | XXX | Thomas Butler | Thomas Butler | Thomas Butler | Thomas Butler | Thomas Butler | Thomas Butler | XXX | XXX | XXX | XXX | XXX | XXX | Earls & dukes of Ormond | Earls & dukes of Ormond | Earls & dukes of Ormond | Earls & dukes of Ormond | Earls & dukes of Ormond | Earls & dukes of Ormond |

## First marriage and children

In 1608, Elizabeth married Thomas Butler, son of Walter Butler. At the time her father-in-law was a nephew of the ruling earl, Black Tom, the 10th earl of Ormond. Apparently, the marriage was against her father-in-law's wishes.
Thomas and Elizabeth had three sons:
* James (1610–1688), became the 1st Duke of Ormond
* John (died 1636), died unmarried in Naples on his travels
* Richard (1615–1701) of Kilcash
—and four daughters:
* Helena or Ellen or Eleanor (1612–1682), married Donough MacCarty, 1st Earl of Clancarty before 1633
* Eleanor or Ellen, married Sir Andrew Aylmer (1613–1671), 2nd baronet, of Donadea in the County of Kildare in 1634
* Mary (died 1680), married Sir George Hamilton, 1st Baronet, of Donalong in 1635
* Elizabeth (d. 1675), married first James Purcell, Baron Loughmoe (1609–1652), by whom she had Nicholas Purcell of Loughmoe (1651–1722); she married secondly John FitzPatrick of Castletown

## Lady Thurles

When Black Tom died in November 1614, Walter, her father-in-law, succeeded as the 11th earl, and her husband became heir apparent with the courtesy title of Viscount Thurles. She therefore became Lady Thurles.
While the Ormond title was secure, the lands were claimed by Richard Preston, 1st Earl of Desmond, who had married Elizabeth, Black Tom's only surviving child in autumn 1614, shortly before her father's death. The 11th Earl contested Preston's claim, but the king intervened and decided in Preston's favour. As Walter refused to accept, the king arrested him and held him in London's Fleet Prison.
Some sources say that Lady Thurles lived in Thurles Castle from her first marriage until her death (1608–1673), except for a short period (1658–1660) during the rule of Cromwell—she was a Catholic Royalist. It is not clear, however, how she could have returned to Thurles Castle because Lewis writes that "this castle, during the parliamentary war, was garrisoned for the King, but was afterwards taken by the parliamentarian forces, by whom it was demolished". On the other hand, Lady Thurles may have returned to a newer building on or close to the site of the castle which may also have been called Thurles Castle; Grose, writing in 1791, and Armitage, writing in 1912, seem to imply that a building called Thurles Castle still existed in their times.
Lord Thurles drowned on 15 December 1619, when the ship that should have carried him to England was wrecked off the Skerries near Anglesey. Thomas had been on his way to answer charges of treason for having garrisoned Kilkenny. Her son James, aged 9, became the new heir apparent and therefore was styled Viscount Thurles. In principle, she became now dowager Lady Thurles, but was still called Lady Thurles for short.

## Second marriage and children

In 1620 Lady Thurles married Captain George Mathew of Radyr and Llandaff in Glamorganshire, Wales. He was a Catholic. With George Elizabeth had two sons:
* Theobald (d. 1699), was granted the manor of Thurles by his half-brother James
* George
—and one daughter:
* Frances
In 1629 her son James, styled Lord Thurles, married Elizabeth. There were now two persons called "Elizabeth, Lady Thurles", the actual one and the dowager one. When Walter, the father-in-law of dowager Lady Thurles, died in 1633, James succeeded as the 12th Earl of Ormond and his wife became Countess of Ormond. The name "Thurles" was now unique again and could only mean the dowager Lady Thurles.
In 1636 Thurles's second husband died at Tenby, Pembrokeshire, Wales. She would outlive him by 37 years.

## Late life, death, and Timeline

In May 1646 Ormond feared for Thurles's safety and had her brought to Dublin. Similar rescues were organised for Thurles's daughters, Lady Hamilton, Lady Muskerry, and Lady Loughmoe.
In 1656, during the Protectorate, Thurles was left in the possession of the manor of Thurles and excepted from transplantation as a result of a petition by Hardress Waller and other army officers.
Lady Thurles died in Thurles in May 1673. She was buried in Thurles beside what is now the Protestant church of St. Mary's.
Timeline :
| Italics for historical background. |||
| Age | Date | Event |
| 0 | 1587 | Born |
| 15–16 | 24 Mar 1603 | Accession of James I, succeeding Elizabeth I |
| 20–21 | 1608 | Married 1st husband, Thomas Butler, Viscount Thurles |
| 22–23 | 1610 | Son James born |
| 26–27 | 22 Nov 1614 | Styled Viscountess Thurles as Thomas, the 10th earl, died |
| 29–30 | 1617 | Walter, her father-in-law, detained in Fleet Prison |
| 31–32 | 15 Dec 1619 | 1st husband died. |
| 37–38 | 18 Mar 1625 | Walter, her father-in-law, submitted to James I's decision. |
| 37–38 | 27 Mar 1625 | Accession of Charles I, succeeding James I |
| 41–42 | 125 Dec 1629 | Son James married Elizabeth Preston. |
| 45–46 | 24 Feb 1633 | Father-in-law died at Carrick-on-Suir. |
| 48–49 | Oct 1636 | 2nd husband died. |
| 53–54 | 23 Oct 1641 | Outbreak of the Rebellion |
| 72–73 | 29 May 1660 | Restoration of Charles II |
| 85–86 | 1673 | Died |