on NUMBER aug NUMBER daniel quinlan wrote dan kohn dan dankohn com writes daniel it s easy enough for you to change the habeas scores yourself on your installation if habeas fails to live up to its promise to only license the warrant mark to non spammers and to place all violators on the hil then i have no doubt that justin and craig will quickly remove us from the next release but you re trying to kill habeas before it has a chance to show any promise i think i ve worked on sa enough to understand that i can localize a score i m just not comfortable with using spamassassin as a vehicle for drumming up your business at the expense of our user base i have to agree here if habeas is going to die just because sa does not support it that s a serious problem with the business model but that is nobody s problem but habeas s a possible solution is for habeas s business model to include some kind of incentive for users of sa to give it the benefit of the doubt i have yet to think of an incentive that fits the bill on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER justin mason wrote i don t see a problem supporting it in spamassassin but i see dan s points high score as far as i can see that s because spamassassin is assigning such high scores to legit newsletters these days and the habeas mark has to bring it down below that imo we have to fix the high scorers anyway no spam ever needs to score over NUMBER in our scoring system NUMBER tagged anyway this is off the topic of the rest of this discussion but amavisd in all its incarnations and mimedefang and several other mta plugins all reject at smtp time messages that scores higher than some threshold often NUMBER if some new release were to start scoring all spam no higher than NUMBER NUMBER there d better be _zero_ fps because all those filters would drop their thresholds to NUMBER on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER michael moncur wrote but i agree that there needs to be more focus on eliminating rules that frequently hit on newsletters if any newsletters actually use the habeas mark that will be one way to help newsletters won t use the mark habeas is priced way too high a factor of at least NUMBER over what the market will bear imo on a per message basis for most typical mailing lists lockergnome say to afford it on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER harold hallikainen wrote habeus has come up with a very clever way to use existing law to battle spam it seems that at some point they could drop the licensing fee to NUMBER or less and make all their income off suing the spammers for copyright infringement sorry that just can t work if the habeas mark actually becomes both widespread enough in non spam and effectively enforced enough to be absent from spam such that e g sa could assign a positive score to messages that do not have it then spammers are out of business and habeas has no one to sue there s nobody left to charge except the people who want or are forced against their will because their mail won t get through otherwise to use the mark conversely if there are enough spammers forging the mark for habeas to make all its income suing them then the mark is useless for the purpose for which it was designed either way it seems to me that after maybe a couple of lawsuits against real spammers and a lot of cease and desist letters to clueless mom pops then either a they re out of business b they have to sell the rights to use the mark to increasingly questionable senders or c they ve both created and monopolized a market for internet postage stamps that everybody has to pay them for the latter would be quite a coup if they could pull it off they do absolutely nothing useful unless you consider threatening people with lawsuits useful yet still collect a fee either directly or indirectly from everyone on the internet effectively we ll be paying them for the privilege of policing their trademark for them i don t believe they ll ever get that far but i don t particularly want to help them make it and i use the term they loosely because the whole company could consist of one lawyer if it really got to that point this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL 