i attended the same conference and was impressed by a few systems that jim didn t mention in terms of cms the following all had apparently been used in some fairly large implementations and looked like some pretty strong competition to commercial systems midgard URL a php based content management framework that with other programs combines to be a full cms redhat ccm cms java based URL opencms java based URL there was agreement that usability has not generally been an open source strength but both plone and xopus represented some real movement towards improving that situation i was impressed by the spectrum of perspectives on xml some took for granted that xslt was relevant to content management others took it just as for granted that xslt was irrelevant and seemed happy to ignore xml almost completely i attended realizing that content management is generally used to apply to web content management but i was still a bit shocked how completely out of scope document management was almost no consideration of the potential print pdf dimension to content other than the occasional and you can use fop to make pdf as if that was functional this seems more the case in open source content management than in commercial content management and probably makes xml easier to ignore if html is the be all and end all of the output the honesty was refreshing phil suh complained about the state of current tools both open source and commercial and i wish i d written down what he said something like it sucks so extremely it sucks so widely and it is so generally sucking that it seems sometimes there is no hope for a moment there was contemplation that perhaps commercial systems scaled so well that the commercial big boys were really much more functional than open source until someone pointed out ok take some average blog software spend NUMBER NUMBER on the rollout it ll scale pretty well another quote citing brendan quinn content management problems are either trivial or impossible mac os x is getting popular of the laptops there it was an even NUMBER NUMBER each of mac linux windows i am sure it wasn t news to jim but i can t wait to try subversion a cvs replacement that supports some of the newer features of webdav URL i m also eager to try xopus i hope the developers make it back home safely they said they d only been in america four days but were already homeless max 