 just tried smartgroups the layout of pages is pretty challenging to use quickly but the most interesting aspect is that once you are in there is no way to get out you can unsubscribe yourself as the sole member of a group but you cannot delete the group or if you can i couldn t find it before deleting myself and now it s invisible to me another interesting thing security forms are reset to full public settings each time you load them rather than set from your current settings all in all i wasn t impressed and have stayed with the yahooligans for another run gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso 