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 date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERfaNUMBERd deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com i can t reproduce this error for me it is very repeatable like every time without fail this is the debug log of the pick happening NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pick_it exec pick inbox list lbrace lbrace subject ftp rbrace rbrace NUMBER NUMBER sequence mercury NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER exec pick inbox list lbrace lbrace subject ftp rbrace rbrace NUMBER NUMBER sequence mercury NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ftoc_pickmsgs NUMBER hit NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER marking NUMBER hits NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tkerror syntax error in expression int note if i run the pick command by hand delta pick inbox list lbrace lbrace subject ftp rbrace rbrace NUMBER NUMBER sequence mercury NUMBER hit that s where the NUMBER hit comes from obviously the version of nmh i m using is delta pick version pick nmh NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER compiled on URL at sun mar NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ict NUMBER and the relevant part of my mh_profile delta mhparam pick seq sel list since the pick command works the sequence actually both of them the one that s explicit on the command line from the search popup and the one that comes from mh_profile do get created kre ps this is still using the version of the code form a day ago i haven t been able to reach the cvs repository today local routing issue i think _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
martin a posted tassos papadopoulos the greek sculptor behind the plan judged that the limestone of mount kerdylio NUMBER miles east of salonika and not far from the mount athos monastic community was ideal for the patriotic sculpture as well as alexander s granite features NUMBER ft high and NUMBER ft wide a museum a restored amphitheatre and car park for admiring crowds are planned so is this mountain limestone or granite if it s limestone it ll weather pretty fast yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
man threatens explosion in moscow thursday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm moscow ap security officers on thursday seized an unidentified man who said he was armed with explosives and threatened to blow up his truck in front of russia s federal security services headquarters in moscow ntv television reported the officers seized an automatic rifle the man was carrying then the man got out of the truck and was taken into custody ntv said no other details were immediately available the man had demanded talks with high government officials the interfax and itar tass news agencies said ekho moskvy radio reported that he wanted to talk with russian president vladimir putin police and security forces rushed to the security service building within blocks of the kremlin red square and the bolshoi ballet and surrounded the man who claimed to have one and a half tons of explosives the news agencies said negotiations continued for about one and a half hours outside the building itar tass and interfax reported citing witnesses the man later drove away from the building under police escort and drove to a street near moscow s olympic penta hotel where authorities held further negotiations with him the moscow police press service said the move appeared to be an attempt by security services to get him to a more secure location yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
klez the virus that won t die already the most prolific virus ever klez continues to wreak havoc andrew brandt from the september NUMBER issue of pc world magazine posted thursday august NUMBER NUMBER the klez worm is approaching its seventh month of wriggling across the web making it one of the most persistent viruses ever and experts warn that it may be a harbinger of new viruses that use a combination of pernicious approaches to go from pc to pc antivirus software makers symantec and mcafee both report more than NUMBER new infections daily with no sign of letup at press time the british security firm messagelabs estimates that NUMBER in every NUMBER e mail messages holds a variation of the klez virus and says that klez has already surpassed last summer s sircam as the most prolific virus ever and some newer klez variants aren t merely nuisances they can carry other viruses in them that corrupt your data URL _______________________________________________ irregulars mailing list irregulars URL URL ,0
 in adding cream to spaghetti carbonara which has the same effect on pasta as making a pizza a deep pie i just had to jump in here as carbonara is one of my favourites to make and ask what the hell are you supposed to use instead of cream i ve never seen a recipe that hasn t used this personally i use low fat creme fraiche because it works quite nicely but the only time i ve seen an supposedly authentic recipe for carbonara it was identical to mine cream eggs and lots of fresh parmesan except for the creme fraiche stew stewart smith scottish microelectronics centre university of edinburgh URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 i just had to jump in here as carbonara is one of my favourites to make and ask what the hell are you supposed to use instead of cream isn t it just basically a mixture of beaten egg and bacon or pancetta really you mix in the raw egg to the cooked pasta and the heat of the pasta cooks the egg that s my understanding martin yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the scotsman NUMBER august NUMBER playboy wants to go out with a bang an ageing berlin playboy has come up with an unusual offer to lure women into his bed by promising the last woman he sleeps with an inheritance of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rolf eden NUMBER a berlin disco owner famous for his countless sex partners said he could imagine no better way to die than in the arms of an attractive young woman preferably under NUMBER i put it all in my last will and testament the last woman who sleeps with me gets all the money mr eden told bild newspaper i want to pass away in the most beautiful moment of my life first a lot of fun with a beautiful woman then wild sex a final orgasm and it will all end with a heart attack and then i m gone mr eden who is selling his nightclub this year said applications should be sent in quickly because of his age it could end very soon he said yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
martin adamson wrote isn t it just basically a mixture of beaten egg and bacon or pancetta really you mix in the raw egg to the cooked pasta and the heat of the pasta cooks the egg that s my understanding you re probably right mine s just the same but with the cream added to the eggs i guess i should try it without actually looking on the internet for a recipe i found this one from possibly one of the scariest people i ve ever seen and he s a us congressman URL that s one of the worst non smiles ever stew ps apologies if any of the list s maine residents voted for this man you won t do it again once you ve seen this pic stewart smith scottish microelectronics centre university of edinburgh URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the scotsman thu NUMBER aug NUMBER meaningful sentences tracey lawson if you ever wanted to look like one of the most dangerous inmates in prison history as one judge described charles bronson now s your chance bronson the serial hostage taker not the movie star has written a health and fitness guide in which he shares some of the secrets behind his legendary muscle power solitary fitness a title which bears testament to the fact that bronson NUMBER has spent NUMBER of his NUMBER prison years in solitary confinement explains how he has turned himself into a lean mean fitness machine while living NUMBER hours a day in a space just NUMBER feet by eight feet on a diet of scrubs grub and at virtually no cost the book is aimed at those who want to get fabulously fit without spending a fortune on gym memberships protein supplements or designer trainers and starts with a fierce attack on some of the expensive myths churned out by the exercise industry i pick up a fitness mag i start to laugh and i wipe my arse with it is the opening paragraph penned by bronson it s a joke and a big con and they call me a criminal you can t help feeling he has a point this is not the first book that bronson has written from behind bars having already published birdman opens his mind which features drawings and poems created by bronson while in prison and he is not the first prisoner to discover creative expression while residing at her majesty s pleasure jimmy boyle the scots sculptor and novelist discovered his artistic talents when he was sent to barlinnie prison s famous special unit which aimed to help inmates put their violent pasts behind them by teaching them how to express their emotions artistically boyle was sentenced to life for the murder of babs rooney in NUMBER once released he moved to edinburgh where he has become a respected artist his first novel hero of the underworld was published in NUMBER and his autobiography a sense of freedom was made into an award winning film hugh collins was jailed for life in NUMBER for the murder of william mooney in glasgow and in his first year in barlinnie prison stabbed three prison officers earning him an extra seven year sentence but after being transferred to the same unit that boyle attended he learned to sculpt and developed an interest in art he later published autobiography of a murderer a frank account of glasgow s criminal culture in the NUMBERs which received critical praise and lord archer doesn t seem to have had trouble continuing to write the books that have made him millions while in jail he recently signed a three book deal with macmillan publishers worth a reported NUMBER million and is no doubt scribbling away as we speak so why is it that men like collins bronson and boyle who can be so destructive towards society on the outside can become so creative once stuck on the inside steve richards bronson s publisher has published many books about criminal figures and believes the roots of this phenomenon are both pragmatic and profound he says prison is sometimes the first time some criminals will ever have known a stable environment and this can be the first time they have the chance to focus on their creative skills it may also be the first time that they have really had the chance of an education if their early years have been hard it could be the first time anyone has offered them the chance to explore their creative talents however richards believes the reasons are also deeper than that he says once they are behind bars the cold light of day hits them and they examine the very essence of who they are they ask themselves am i a man who wants to be remembered for violence or am i a man who can contribute to society who can be remembered for something good bronson who was born michael gordon peterson but changed his name to that of the hollywood star of the death wish films has so far been remembered mainly for things bad he was originally jailed for seven years for armed robbery in NUMBER and has had a series of sentences added to his original term over the years as a result of attacking people in prison in NUMBER he was jailed for life after being convicted of holding a teacher hostage for nearly two days during a jail siege standing five feet ten and a half inches tall and weighing NUMBERlbs he is renowned for his strength he has bent metal cell doors with his bare hands and does up to NUMBER NUMBER yes NUMBER NUMBER press ups a day as he puts it i can hit a man NUMBER times in four seconds i can push NUMBER press ups in NUMBER seconds but judging by our current obsession with health and exercise solitary fitness might be the book which will see bronson s face sitting on every coffee table in the land he might be the man to give us the dream body which so many so called fitness gurus promise but fail to motivate us into because bronson has learned to use words as powerfully as he can use his fists all this crap about high protein drinks pills diets it s just a load of bollocks and a multi million pound racket he writes in what can only be described as a refreshingly honest style we can all be fat lazy bastards it s our choice i m sick of hearing and reading about excuses if you stuff your face with shit you become shit that s logical to me as motivational mantras go that might be just the kick up the er backside we all needed solitary fitness by charles bronson is published by mirage publishing and will be available in bookstores from october at NUMBER NUMBER yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
i have been trying to research via sa mirrors and search engines if a canned script exists giving clients access to their user_prefs options via a web based cgi interface numerous isps provide this feature to clients but so far i can find nothing our configuration uses amavis postfix and clamav for virus filtering and procmail with spamassassin for spam filtering i would prefer not to have to write a script myself but will appreciate any suggestions this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
hello have you seen and discussed this article and his approach thank you URL hell there are no rules here we re trying to accomplish something thomas alva edison this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
yes great minds think alike but even withput eval rules it would be very useful it would allow us to respond quickly to spammer s tricks theo van dinter wrote on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER marc perkel wrote has anyone though of the idea of live updates of rules after release the idea being that the user can run a cron job once a week or so and get the new default rule set this would allow us to react faster to i suggested this a few months ago i don t remember the details of what came out of it except that it would only be useful for non eval rules since those require code changes this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
on mon aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER john p looney mentioned this is likely because to get it to boot like the cobalt i m actually passing root dev hdaNUMBER to the kernel not dev mdNUMBER just to solve this the reason i was booting the box with root dev hdaNUMBER not dev mdNUMBER was because dev mdNUMBER wasn t booting it would barf with can t find init it turns out that this is because i was populating mdNUMBER with tar which seems to have issues with crosslinked files for instance it was trying to make a hard link of URL to hda and failing it was only as i did it again with a friend present that he spotted the errors and queried them we noticed that the hard linked files just didn t exist on the new rootfs when we duplicated the filesystems with dump instead of tar it worked fine i was able to tell lilo to use root dev mdNUMBER and everything worked woohoo kate irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 from chris garrigues cwg exmh deepeddy com date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg exmh deepeddy com date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ouch i ll get right on it from robert elz kre munnari oz au date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER any chance of having that lengthen instead i like all my exmh stuff in nice columns fits the display better that is i use the detache d folder list one column the main exmh window takes up full screen top to bottom but less than half the width etc i thought about that the first order approximation would be to just add using pack side top instead of pack side left however since their each a different width it would look funny i ve done this it s not as pretty as i think it should be but it works i m going to leave the cosmetic issues to others when i update the documentation i ll add this to the exmh todo file i m leaving for a NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER week vacation in a week so this is the last new functionality i m going to add for a while also i now have pretty much everything in there that i want for my own use so i m probably pretty much done i ll work on bug fixes and documentation before my vacation and hopefully do nothing more afterwards chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
spamassassin is hurting democracy owen URL internet can level the political playing field by mike mccurry and larry purpuro not many months from now people across the country will experience one of the great recurring features of american democracy at shopping malls on factory floors at church socials and even on our front stoops we will be approached by individuals who want to represent us in public office while chances are high that we won t know them personally they will walk up to us offer a handshake and a flier and ask for our votes just as technology is affecting every other area of communication it has begun to affect the way political candidates communicate with voters in this year s gop gubernatorial primary california secretary of state bill jones who faced better funded candidates acquired the e mail addresses of more than a million potential california voters and sent each an unsolicited e mail asking for support that day he might have chosen any of the more traditional and more expensive methods of contacting voters such as direct mail radio spots or tv ads but he spent only about NUMBER cents per message instead of NUMBER cents or more per message for direct mail or in another medium had jones chosen direct mail radio or tv that communication would have been equally unsolicited as defined in the e mail world few voters would have opted in to receive campaign information from jones through any of those channels the response to jones e mail effort however was swift and intense he was lambasted by anti spam advocates and media coverage was almost entirely negative to be fair some of jones tactics could have been refined he used a less than perfect list and no standard practice paid for disclaimer in the message his detractors however attacked him not for his tactical miscues but because the e mail was sent unsolicited in fact jones online campaign may have been his most visible asset in an era of cynicism toward money in politics money typically spent on other unsolicited communication mediums jones tried to level the playing field no one likes commercial spam it is irrelevant and untargeted and can be highly intrusive and even offensive but as a sophisticated society it s time to differentiate commercial spam from very different unsolicited e mail sent by political candidates to voters the debate is particularly relevant in light of legislation in congress that would constitute the first federal law to directly address spam we believe e mail is no more intrusive than direct mail telemarketing or tv advertising when it comes to politicians seeking to reach voters a simple link in good e mail campaigns allows recipients to opt out of future mailings direct mail takes at least a phone call or stamp to be taken off a list and viewers must repeatedly endure tv ads when a candidate lacks a large campaign war chest he or she can use the internet to provide constituents with information to better prepare them to perform their civic duty of casting educated votes with more than NUMBER percent of all potential voters in this country possessing e mail accounts it makes sense that political candidates use this medium candidates might avoid some of the tactical problems encountered by the jones campaign if they use the technologies available today that better ensure quality of e mail lists and target content to specific recipient groups but the broader point remains when a political candidate sends a voter an e mail that recipient can choose to delete the message without opening it unsubscribe from the list read it or even reply and engage the sender that choice should belong to the voter not to anti spam advocates whose efforts are better focused on commercial e mail political candidates should be free to communicate with voters as best they can and let voters decide what to do with that information mike mccurry former press secretary for president clinton is ceo of an advocacy management and communications software company larry purpuro the former republican national committee deputy chief of staff is founder and president of a political e marketing firm this was written for the los angeles times URL ,0
hi all apologies for the possible silly question i don t think it is but but is eircom s adsl service nat ed and what implications would that have for voip i know there are difficulties with voip or connecting to clients connected to a nat ed network from the internet wild i e machines with static real ips any help pointers would be helpful cheers rgrds bernard bernard tyers national centre for sensor research p NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e bernard tyers URL w URL l nNUMBER _______________________________________________ iiu mailing list iiu URL URL ,0
 in forteana y d mcmann dmcmann b wrote robert moaby NUMBER who sent death threats to staff was also jailed for hoarding indecent pictures of children on his home computer hmm if i didn t trust our government and secret police i could look at this another way there is a bit of circumstantial evidence apparently some mt listers were approached by him via email a little research in dejanews google groups showed a number of messages from him clearly hoping to contact girls appearing in alt teens and similar groups i just tried a google groups search on robert moaby and some of them came top of the list note for marie mt stands for mark thomas a slightly slimmer uk version of your michael moore the mailing list is named after him rob yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
in a nutshell solaris is suns own flavour of unix original message from kiall mac innes mailto kiall redpie com sent NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to ilug subject ilug sun solaris can someone explain what type of operating system solaris is as ive never seen or used it i dont know wheather to get a server from sun or from dell i would prefer a linux based server and sun seems to be the one for that but im not sure if solaris is a distro of linux or a completely different operating system can someone explain kiall mac innes irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
apols if this has been posted before URL rob yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
can someone explain what type of operating system solaris is as ive never seen or used it i dont know wheather to get a server from sun or from dell i would prefer a linux based server and sun seems to be the one for that but im not sure if solaris is a distro of linux or a completely different operating system can someone explain kiall mac innes irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 apols if this has been posted before URL so anyone who isn t beaker timc meep yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER fergal moran mentioned in a nutshell solaris is suns own flavour of unix though i m sure that this nice person would like a bit more detail solaris is quite different to linux though these days you can make solaris act a lot like linux with an extra cd of gnu tools sun ship with solaris it is based on the sysv unix family so it s quite similar to other unixen like hpux and sco sun s hardware in general is more reliable and a lot more expensive one of the main bonuses you get by buying sun is that you are getting your hardware and software from one company so if you have a support contract they have to fix it they can t fob you off with that s a software problem talk to the software vendor etc if you are set on linux you most likely can do your own support there is then a world of different hardware options you can run linux on sparc though some companies like redhat don t maintain a sparc port anymore you can also buy your machine from linux oriented companies like dnuk who do machines designed to run linux and their own version of linux that has a few extras for their machines or you can get a machine from a cheaper company like dell and it ll most likely work most of the time john irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
john p looney wrote on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER fergal moran mentioned in a nutshell solaris is suns own flavour of unix though i m sure that this nice person would like a bit more detail solaris is quite different to linux though these days you can make solaris act a lot like linux with an extra cd of gnu tools sun ship with solaris it is based on the sysv unix family so it s quite similar to other unixen like hpux and sco sun s hardware in general is more reliable and a lot more expensive one of the main bonuses you get by buying sun is that you are getting your hardware and software from one company so if you have a support contract they have to fix it they can t fob you off with that s a software problem talk to the software vendor etc if you are set on linux you most likely can do your own support there is then a world of different hardware options you can run linux on sparc though some companies like redhat don t maintain a sparc port anymore you can also buy your machine from linux oriented companies like dnuk who do machines designed to run linux and their own version of linux that has a few extras for their machines or you can get a machine from a cheaper company like dell and it ll most likely work most of the time why do you say dell is cheaper than dnuk it gets a bit complicated though URL pádraig irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hey it s not easy being green leslie leslie ellen jones ph d jack of all trades and doctor of folklore lejones URL truth is an odd number flann o brien original message from dino to zzzzteana URL sent thursday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject re zzzzteana which muppet are you damn kermit boring wanna be rizzo he s the coolest dino yahoo groups sponsor advertisement to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to the yahoo terms of service non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER john p looney wrote sun s hardware in general is more reliable rofl not in our experience well at least our caps lock keys work peter URL said another problem i have a dell branded keyboard and if i hit caps lock twice the whole machine crashes in linux not windows even the on off switch is inactive leaving me to reach for the power cable instead p bauwolf URL said as if he wanted solaris NUMBER for xNUMBER he d be waiting a bit erm it runs solaris xNUMBER as standard cheers al expressed in this posting are my opinions they are in no way related to opinions held by my employer sun microsystems statements on sun products included here are not gospel and may be fiction rather than truth irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 you have multiple generations of peasants squatters that cultivate and live on the lands almost as a human parts of the property package when i d read that getting legal title can take NUMBER years when i believe that NUMBER year ought to be more than sufficient and helped by the cairo reference i d assumed that we were talking about the urban poor if i see people living in mansions or even in suburban subdivisions i assume they didn t have too much trouble with their titles if i see people living in shanties and haphazard alleyways i tend to assume their parcels weren t exactly recorded on the government maps or paid for with a bank loan especially when nearby vacant lots have shotgun wielding men presumably intent on keeping them development free now it may be that manhattanites view of america to say that outside of metro manila davao and maybe another city or two cebu everything else literally is the boondocks but going on that very broad assumption i guess i m describing the flip side of mr roger s experience the paisanos who leave behind those who remain on a patron s rural land move to manila and the second assumption squat in shantytowns there at least until they can line up a middle class job so going on two large assumptions i can come up with a scenario under which title would take NUMBER years a shantytown arises somewhere in the midst of a section or whatever the spanish used to divvy up the land and it takes decades of arguing to put together a package which somehow can both compensate the owner and record lots for the inhabitants just transferring title to an existing lot between parties who have money ought not to be a problem the obvious solution at least to us barking farting chihuahuas on fork is to introduce market mechanisms it is left as an exercise to come up with one which works when many of the agents are perceived to have negligible npv dave land reform meant that all the agricultural producers had to plant crops all the time profitable or not what happened to more highly capitalized land putting in trees instead of crops sounds like it might sidestep that mr long i think you d particularly enjoy the de soto work on the to find list any chance of an explanation of that bell jar in the meantime URL ,0
folks my first time posting have a bit of unix experience but am new to linux just got a new pc at home dell box with windows xp added a second hard disk for linux partitioned the disk and have installed suse NUMBER NUMBER from cd which went fine except it didn t pick up my monitor i have a dell branded eNUMBERfpp NUMBER lcd flat panel monitor and a nvidia geforceNUMBER tiNUMBER video card both of which are probably too new to feature in suse s default set i downloaded a driver from the nvidia website and installed it using rpm then i ran saxNUMBER as was recommended in some postings i found on the net but it still doesn t feature my video card in the available list what next another problem i have a dell branded keyboard and if i hit caps lock twice the whole machine crashes in linux not windows even the on off switch is inactive leaving me to reach for the power cable instead if anyone can help me in any way with these probs i d be really grateful i ve searched the net but have run out of ideas or should i be going for a different version of linux such as redhat opinions welcome thanks a lot peter irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER joseph s barrera iii wrote why wait until you re dead i m sure there s enough carbon in the fat from your typical liposuction job to make a decent diamond so thats why i keep seeing debeers agents hovering around me tom diamonds in the folds of my flesh wsmf URL ,0
joseph s barrera iii wrote chris haun wrote a lifegem is a certified high quality diamond created from the carbon of your loved one as a memorial to their unique and wonderful life why wait until you re dead i m sure there s enough carbon in the fat from your typical liposuction job to make a decent diamond joe oh hell what about excrement i d love to be able to say no the sun doesn t shine out of my ass but there s the occasional diamond owen URL ,0
update on this for anyone that s interested and because i like closed threads nothing worse than an infinite while loop is there i ended up formatting a floppy on my flatmate s un networked pNUMBER running fatNUMBER winNUMBER and mcopied the contents of the bootdisk across now i have a fatNUMBER winNUMBER install running alongside slackware and can play metal gear solid when the mood takes me ciaran on wednesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ciaran johnston wrote dublin said if you copy the files from your disk to the c partition and mark it as active it should work yeah i figured that but it doesn t seem to well if that s the case i ll give it another go tonight maybe come back with some error messages just to clarify for those who didn t understand me initially i have a floppy drive installed but it doesn t physically work there s nowhere handy to pick one up where i am and i don t fancy waiting a few days for one to arrive from peats thanks for the answers ciaran you especially need io sys URL and msdos sys your cd driver sys and read the autoexec bat and config sys files for hints on what you did with your boot floppy g p on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER ciaran johnston wrote hi folks the situation is this at home i have a pc with NUMBER NUMBERgig hdds and no working floppy drive i have been running linux solely for the last year but recently got the urge to among other things play some of my windoze games i normally install the windows partition using a boot floppy which i have conveniently zipped up but i haven t any way of writing or reading a floppy so how do i go about NUMBER formatting a c drive with system files normally i would use format s c from the floppy NUMBER installing the cdrom drivers my bootdisk i wrote it many years ago does this normally NUMBER booting from the partition i wiped all my linux partitions from the first drive and created partitions for windows hdaNUMBER slackware and redhat i used cfdisk for this i made the first drive hda bootable i then installed the windows partition in lilo and reran lilo installed in mbr i copied the contents of URL to my new windows partition and tried to boot it all i get is a garbled line of squiggles anyone any ideas i can t think of anywhere in athlone to get a new floppy drive this evening thanks ciaran irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
has anyone seen heard of used some package that would let a random person go to a webpage create a mailing list then administer that list also of course let ppl sign up for the lists and manage their subscriptions similar to the old URL but i d like to have it running on my server not someone elses chris URL ,0
an apparent quote from dubya from the times sent to me by my dad URL tony blair s special relationship with george w bush is under considerable strain not only do the two disagree on yassir arafat s tenure as leader of the palestinian authority but blair has started telling disparaging anecdotes about the president baroness williams of crosby recalled a story told to her by my good friend tony blair recently in brighton blair bush and jacques chirac were discussing economics and in particular the decline of the french economy the problem with the french bush confided in blair is that they don t have a word for entrepreneur r URL ,0
this is an automated response to a message you have sent to hauns_froehlingsdorf URL i will be out of the office until monday august NUMBER NUMBER i will reply to your email when i return hauns ___________________________________ hauns froehlingsdorf network systems manager infinetivity inc NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
al white wrote erm it runs solaris xNUMBER as standard it runs solaris NUMBER xNUMBER as standard i was joking al m irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hi thank you for the useful replies i have found some interesting tutorials in the ibm developer connection URL and URL registration is needed i will post the same message on the web application security list as suggested by someone for now i thing i will use mdNUMBER for password checking i will use the approach described in secure programmin fo linux and unix how to i will separate the authentication module so i can change its implementation at anytime thank you again mario torre please avoid sending me word or powerpoint attachments see URL ,0
mark twomey joked erm it runs solaris xNUMBER as standard it runs solaris NUMBER xNUMBER as standard i was joking al and will run solaris NUMBER when sun catch up with the xNUMBER drivers and kernel although don t hold your breath for the free dvd it will never come spot the person who applied for the free solaris NUMBER dvd only to be told three months later it is no longer available mutter fwiw solaris and linux seem to be getting closer all the time i can no longer see any specific reason why one is better than the other expect red hat solaris NUMBER any time now grin matthew __________________________________________________ do you yahoo everything you ll ever need on one web page from news and sport to email and music charts URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER robert harley wrote an apparent quote from dubya from the times sent to me by my dad URL URL claim president george w bush proclaimed the problem with the french is that they don t have a word for entrepreneur origins yet another french fried george w bush is dumb story has been taken up by those who like their caricatures drawn in stark bold lines according to scuttlebutt that emerged in the british press in july NUMBER president bush britain s prime minister tony blair and france s president jacques chirac were discussing economics and in particular the decline of the french economy the problem with the french bush afterwards confided in blair is that they don t have a word for entrepreneur the source was shirley williams also known as the baroness williams of crosby who claimed my good friend tony blair had recently regaled her with this anecdote in brighton lloyd grove of the washington post was unable to reach baroness williams to gain her confirmation of the tale but he did receive a call from alastair campbell blair s director of communications and strategy i can tell you that the prime minister never heard george bush say that and he certainly never told shirley williams that president bush did say it campbell told the post if she put this in a speech it must have been a joke this is far from the first time bush has been made the butt of a jibe meant to showcase what some perceive as his less than stellar intellectual abilities without straining our memories too hard we can come up with three other instances we ve chronicled on this site in the summer of NUMBER the joke of the moment centered upon a supposed study that had resulted in the ranking of presidential iqs with george w bush being pegged as the chief executive who scraped the bottom of the intelligence barrel in december NUMBER it was a fake nostradamus quatrain which pontificated that the village idiot would win the NUMBER presidential election and in the spring of NUMBER it was the story of bush s waving at stevie wonder that set folks to chortling up their sleeves stories that illustrate this widely believed intellectual shortcoming will always waft after george w bush because they seemingly confirm what many already hold as true about this public figure that he s not the brightest fellow that s ever been it is human nature to revel in yarns that the hearer at some level agrees with thus tales of this sort will always fall upon appreciative ears barbara ears of corn mikkelson last updated NUMBER july NUMBER URL ,0
hehe sorry but if you hit caps lock twice the computer crashes theres one ive never heard before have you tryed dell support yet i think dell computers prefer redhat dell provide some computers pre loaded with red hat i dont know for sure tho so get someone elses opnion as well as mine original message from ilug admin URL mailto ilug admin URL on behalf of peter staunton sent NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to ilug URL subject ilug newbie seeks advice suse NUMBER NUMBER folks my first time posting have a bit of unix experience but am new to linux just got a new pc at home dell box with windows xp added a second hard disk for linux partitioned the disk and have installed suse NUMBER NUMBER from cd which went fine except it didn t pick up my monitor i have a dell branded eNUMBERfpp NUMBER lcd flat panel monitor and a nvidia geforceNUMBER tiNUMBER video card both of which are probably too new to feature in suse s default set i downloaded a driver from the nvidia website and installed it using rpm then i ran saxNUMBER as was recommended in some postings i found on the net but it still doesn t feature my video card in the available list what next another problem i have a dell branded keyboard and if i hit caps lock twice the whole machine crashes in linux not windows even the on off switch is inactive leaving me to reach for the power cable instead if anyone can help me in any way with these probs i d be really grateful i ve searched the net but have run out of ideas or should i be going for a different version of linux such as redhat opinions welcome thanks a lot peter irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER nick hilliard wrote apologies for the possible silly question i don t think it is but but is eircom s adsl service nat ed no you get unfiltered access with a real but dynamic ip address and what implications would that have for voip i know there are difficulties with voip or connecting to clients connected to a nat ed network from the internet wild i e machines with static real ips you will probably suffer from the high latency of dls lines typically you re talking about NUMBERms rtt to the local bas which is pretty high if your voip application can handle this then you re ok nick what s the deal with all this latency it s not like that in other places where i ve used dsl i read some story about it being done that way to allow greater distances to be covered or something like that however my knowledge of physics is really only newtonian and i don t understand how worsening latency could possibly improve the reliability of a NUMBER foot long piece of copper perhaps it has something to do with stretching the time space continuum can someone explain this in words of five syllables or less a _______________________________________________ iiu mailing list iiu URL URL antoin o lachtnain antoin URL URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ iiu mailing list iiu URL URL ,0
manoj kasichainula wrote URL claim president george w bush proclaimed the problem with the french is that they don t have a word for entrepreneur status false lloyd grove of the washington post was unable to reach baroness williams to gain her confirmation of the tale but he did receive a call from alastair campbell blair s director of communications and strategy i can tell you that the prime minister never heard george bush say that and he certainly never told shirley williams that president bush did say it campbell told the post if she put this in a speech it must have been a joke so some guy failed to reach the source but instead got spin doctor to deny it wot is he thick enough to expect official confirmation that yes blair is going around casting aspersions on bush it s an amusing anecdote i don t know if it s true or not but certainly nothing here supports the authoritative sounding conclusion status false r URL ,0
lucas gonze spam is the tool for dissident news since the fact that it s unsolicited means that recipients can t be blamed for being on a mailing list that depends on how the list is collected or even on what the senders say about how the list is collected better to just put it on a website and that way it can be surfed anonymously and it doesn t clutter my inbox _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL URL ,0
on NUMBER aug NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER robert harley wrote it s an amusing anecdote i don t know if it s true or not but certainly nothing here supports the authoritative sounding conclusion status false i actually thought it was pretty funny and quite accurate who cares if the spinmeisters are denying it URL ,0
 i downloaded a driver from the nvidia website and installed it using rpm then i ran saxNUMBER as was recommended in some postings i found on the net but it still doesn t feature my video card in the available list what next hmmm peter open a terminal and as root type lsmod you want to find a module called nvdriver if it isn t loaded then load it insmod nvdriver o oh and ensure you have this module loaded on boot else when you reboot you might be in for a nasty surprise once the kernel module is loaded vim etc xNUMBER xfNUMBERconfig in the section marked driver i have neomagic you need to have driver nvidia here is part of my xfNUMBERconfig also note that using the card you are using you should be able to safely use the fbbpp NUMBER option section module load extmod load xie load pexNUMBER load glx subsection dri you don t need to load this peter option mode NUMBER endsubsection load dbe load record load xtrap load speedo load typeNUMBER endsection plus the modelines for your monitor should be singfinicantly different section monitor identifier monitorNUMBER vendorname monitor vendor modelname monitor model horizsync NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER vertrefresh NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER modeline NUMBERxNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER modeline NUMBERxNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER endsection section device identifier cardNUMBER driver neomagic change this to nvidia making sure the modules are in the correct path vendorname neomagic nvidia boardname nmNUMBER busid pci NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER endsection section screen identifier screenNUMBER device cardNUMBER monitor monitorNUMBER defaultdepth NUMBER subsection display depth NUMBER endsubsection subsection display depth NUMBER endsubsection subsection display depth NUMBER endsubsection subsection display depth NUMBER endsubsection subsection display depth NUMBER endsubsection subsection display depth NUMBER fbbpp NUMBER ie you should be able lto uncomment this line modes NUMBERxNUMBER NUMBERxNUMBER NUMBERxNUMBER and add in higher resulutions as desired endsubsection endsection irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
according to my son it was actually homer simpson who claimed the french had no word for victory chuck on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm robert harley wrote an apparent quote from dubya from the times sent to me by my dad URL tony blair s special relationship with george w bush is under considerable strain not only do the two disagree on yassir arafat s tenure as leader of the palestinian authority but blair has started telling disparaging anecdotes about the president baroness williams of crosby recalled a story told to her by my good friend tony blair recently in brighton blair bush and jacques chirac were discussing economics and in particular the decline of the french economy the problem with the french bush confided in blair is that they don t have a word for entrepreneur r URL URL ,0
whore eructed it s an amusing anecdote i don t know if it s true or not but certainly nothing here supports the authoritative sounding conclusion status false so thats the trick just let any anecdotal utterances you like be deemed true exsqueeze me but what part of i don t know if it s true or not did you fail to grok i personally doubt it simply because i never heard of bush and chirac going to brighton next time i hear a joke i promise not to laugh until i have checked out primary sources for confirmation in triplicate ok good thing we have you around to keep us on the straight and narrow all the while inundating us with such erudite profundities as kill your idols folks fight the powers that be from with out and from with in and innumerable other dippy bromides r URL ,0
i won t be reading email until sunday night or so good luck with NUMBER NUMBER and don t do anything i wouldn t do dan ,0
it will function as a router if that is what you wish it even looks like the modem s embedded os is some kind of linux being that it has interesting interfaces like ethNUMBER i don t use it as a router though i just have it do the absolute minimum dsl stuff and do all the really fun stuff like pppoe on my linux box also the manual tells you what the default password is don t forget to run pppoe over the alcatel speedtouch NUMBERi as in my case you have to have a bridge configured in the router modem s software this lists your vci values etc also does anyone know if the high end speedtouch with NUMBER ethernet ports can act as a full router or do i still need to run a pppoe stack on the linux box regards vin irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 e eirikur hallgrimsson eh mad scientist com writes e gary s news service at URL has an article on internet e saturation let me ask you if you were on a rock in the e middle of the atlantic mostly in the dark for half the year e wouldn t you like a bit of internet distraction they ve e already done the obvious and fiber ringed the island there s lots of similar places saskatchewan for example once shared with iceland the distinction of most telephone connections per capita and for a long time shared the internet penetration lead with iceland sask is a land locked massive expanse of ultra flat dust with only two rivers and farm sizes measured in the hundred thousand hectares it s still curious iceland leads maybe there s just a deep cultural curiousity and fascination with watching advertising from the rest of the world maybe they re downloading bjork videos gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
on monday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am tom wrote post mg in the NUMBER s there were the colums by a k dewdney that i dug a bunch put into a book called turing omnibus and then there is of course all the goodens put out by dougy hoffstadler a k dewdney was the name i was looking for and the column was computer recreations turns out he s still in ontario and even has some homemade sci fi online URL vat man programming roger the homunculids alphie omega ross ,0
on NUMBER aug NUMBER daniel quinlan wrote dan kohn dan dankohn com writes daniel it s easy enough for you to change the habeas scores yourself on your installation if habeas fails to live up to its promise to only license the warrant mark to non spammers and to place all violators on the hil then i have no doubt that justin and craig will quickly remove us from the next release but you re trying to kill habeas before it has a chance to show any promise i think i ve worked on sa enough to understand that i can localize a score i m just not comfortable with using spamassassin as a vehicle for drumming up your business at the expense of our user base i have to agree here if habeas is going to die just because sa does not support it that s a serious problem with the business model but that is nobody s problem but habeas s a possible solution is for habeas s business model to include some kind of incentive for users of sa to give it the benefit of the doubt i have yet to think of an incentive that fits the bill on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER justin mason wrote i don t see a problem supporting it in spamassassin but i see dan s points high score as far as i can see that s because spamassassin is assigning such high scores to legit newsletters these days and the habeas mark has to bring it down below that imo we have to fix the high scorers anyway no spam ever needs to score over NUMBER in our scoring system NUMBER tagged anyway this is off the topic of the rest of this discussion but amavisd in all its incarnations and mimedefang and several other mta plugins all reject at smtp time messages that scores higher than some threshold often NUMBER if some new release were to start scoring all spam no higher than NUMBER NUMBER there d better be _zero_ fps because all those filters would drop their thresholds to NUMBER on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER michael moncur wrote but i agree that there needs to be more focus on eliminating rules that frequently hit on newsletters if any newsletters actually use the habeas mark that will be one way to help newsletters won t use the mark habeas is priced way too high a factor of at least NUMBER over what the market will bear imo on a per message basis for most typical mailing lists lockergnome say to afford it on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER harold hallikainen wrote habeus has come up with a very clever way to use existing law to battle spam it seems that at some point they could drop the licensing fee to NUMBER or less and make all their income off suing the spammers for copyright infringement sorry that just can t work if the habeas mark actually becomes both widespread enough in non spam and effectively enforced enough to be absent from spam such that e g sa could assign a positive score to messages that do not have it then spammers are out of business and habeas has no one to sue there s nobody left to charge except the people who want or are forced against their will because their mail won t get through otherwise to use the mark conversely if there are enough spammers forging the mark for habeas to make all its income suing them then the mark is useless for the purpose for which it was designed either way it seems to me that after maybe a couple of lawsuits against real spammers and a lot of cease and desist letters to clueless mom pops then either a they re out of business b they have to sell the rights to use the mark to increasingly questionable senders or c they ve both created and monopolized a market for internet postage stamps that everybody has to pay them for the latter would be quite a coup if they could pull it off they do absolutely nothing useful unless you consider threatening people with lawsuits useful yet still collect a fee either directly or indirectly from everyone on the internet effectively we ll be paying them for the privilege of policing their trademark for them i don t believe they ll ever get that far but i don t particularly want to help them make it and i use the term they loosely because the whole company could consist of one lawyer if it really got to that point this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
is there a way to look for a particular file or directory in NUMBER s of zip files something like zgrep but for the filename instead of a word thanks justin irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message justin maccarthy wrote is there a way to look for a particular file or directory in NUMBER s of zip files something like zgrep but for the filename instead of a word thanks justin probably there are more elegant solutions but if your zips are in one directory you can do something like for i in zip do if unzip v i grep q fileyouwant then echo i fi done cheers waider waider URL yes it is very personal of me begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux comment using gnupg with mozilla URL iqevawubpwNUMBERamahbxyzzsabNUMBERaqh qqgaNUMBERvnujjuwgdaNUMBERycrqdNUMBERvzanhkcfNUMBERkdbba oNUMBERmyqNUMBERcugNUMBERcezkalktyzuNUMBEReoprhlNUMBERreaicuglmmecNUMBERhtuNUMBERzoveNUMBERf csuvbakkhl nxNUMBERxaNUMBERkkNUMBERv lfnwsNUMBERhwpdqolcat NUMBERigzzbdfwmynawb ireybNUMBERrNUMBERgpNUMBERsitdolNUMBERu rrlzysmNUMBERiuydrypduuxNUMBERtaNUMBERblvsdcNUMBERppwsqy wxphnihNUMBERbsNUMBER ebNUMBEReraujuqiNUMBERvjo mbichybNUMBERfNUMBERtevcqubxtcamowjpmv xmNUMBERgdulgrufbpcNUMBERoNUMBERxiNUMBERudfrexzzdojt hlfsNUMBERooNUMBERzqzcmrtuyegsfyqpafNUMBERwudNUMBERjofpaNUMBERtmsyxNUMBERbbhxsNUMBERecw kycm end pgp signature irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
john p looney stated the following on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER i m not sure what exactly is wrong with this but i can t get a redhat NUMBER NUMBER box to use ttysNUMBER as a console the relevant bits of boot grub grub conf are serial unit NUMBER speed NUMBER terminal timeout NUMBER console serial title linux root hdNUMBER NUMBER kernel boot bzimage ro root dev mdNUMBER console ttysNUMBER NUMBERnNUMBER that NUMBER is unneeded and is probably whats upsetting your kernel we use console ttysNUMBER NUMBERnNUMBER but the NUMBER is mainly cos we are a cisco shop and its to keepo everyhting the same colin design is like a religion too much of it makes you inflexibly and unpopular linus torvalds irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 not true on the choice part after three weeks of me telling eircom that i did not in fact need nor want their NUMBER worth of router and firewall nor their onsite survey for the uncapped service i actually managed to get a NUMBER port modem after asking for a NUMBER port modem instead of ye olde hardware router firewall and eircom onsite i would have argued for the NUMBER port modem which i had asked for but a director wanted the dsl up and fast still it only took me three weeks to get almost what i wanted irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 URL first of a very short series gerry _______________________________________________ crackmice mailing list crackmice URL URL ,0
 gordon rutter gordon URL join the fortean book reviews list at forteanbookreviews subscribe URL pre the latest potential pictures of nessie underwater are at URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
all is it just me or has there been a massive increase in the amount of email being falsely bounced around the place i ve already received email from a number of people i don t know asking why i am sending them email these can be explained by servers from russia and elsewhere coupled with the false emails i received myself it s really starting to annoy me am i the only one seeing an increase in recent weeks martin martin whelan déise design URL tel NUMBER NUMBER our core product déiseditor allows organisations to publish information to their web site in a fast and cost effective manner there is no need for a full time web developer as the site can be easily updated by the organisations own staff instant updates to keep site information fresh sites which are updated regularly bring users back visit URL for a demonstration déiseditor managing your information _______________________________________________ iiu mailing list iiu URL URL ,0
i am wondering whether there s a way that i can use sitescooper and or plucker or some other free utility to convert word documents into something a bit more palmos friendly i don t have a windows machine so it becomes problematic to convert them i know that if this were not the case in word i could save them as some other more friendly format tcl NUMBER sept NUMBER NUMBER vancouver bc URL larry w virden mailto lvirden cas org url URL even if explicitly stated to the contrary nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer s opinions this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ sitescooper talk mailing list sitescooper talk URL URL ,0
good day on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER larry w virden wrote i am wondering whether there s a way that i can use sitescooper and or plucker or some other free utility to convert word documents into something a bit more palmos friendly you could try antiword URL it s consoled based and converts word NUMBER docs to text and some images to postscript and png you could also try openoffice and or abiword if you have x installed i don t have a windows machine so it becomes problematic to convert them i know that if this were not the case in word i could save them as some other more friendly format great mabuhay barryg barry dexter a gonzaga bofh barryg URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ sitescooper talk mailing list sitescooper talk URL URL ,0
use perl daily headline mailer installing perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on mac os x NUMBER NUMBER posted by pudge on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER releases URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER barry dexter a gonzaga wrote on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER larry w virden wrote i am wondering whether there s a way that i can use sitescooper and or plucker or some other free utility to convert word documents into something a bit more palmos friendly you could try antiword URL it s consoled based and converts word NUMBER docs to text and some images to postscript and png also there s catdoc and wv for word text conversions actually wv consists of wvware which as the manpage says converts word documents into other formats such as ps pdf html latex dvi abw html would probably be the best format for use with plucker sitescooper depending on how good the doc html conversion is i haven t used either in over a year as abiword or openoffice work well enough prefer abiword for it s light weight size but openoffice has the better doc importer don t know which of these are better or worse than the other but i figure the more the merrier you could also try openoffice and or abiword if you have x installed abiword supports exporting to palmdoc pdb which is about as palmos friendly as you can get never tried needed it but it s listed there in the save as dialog box wine or crossover office if you already have it may support word viewer free download from microsoft but didn t a year or so ago when i last tried word viewer is what i used back in the day to convert word NUMBER docs to word NUMBER as you could display the word NUMBER doc and copy paste the text with formatting into word NUMBER which was the only version of word that i had anyways a little nostalgia i don t have a windows machine so it becomes problematic to convert them i know that if this were not the case in word i could save them as some other more friendly format i have a windows dual boot machine but it only get used by my significant other and for burning multi session cd r rw is there any linux gui app that supports cdrecord s multi session feature since openoffice i ve been able to edit word docs flawlessly or at least the simple word documents i receive from others anyways please request permission to redistribute author s comments or email address this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ sitescooper talk mailing list sitescooper talk URL URL ,0
i m using simple dns from jhsoft we support only a few web sites and i d like to swap secondary services with someone in a similar position we have a static ip dsl line and a NUMBER NUMBER set of web sql mail and now a dns server as i said we are hosting about NUMBER web sites web and dns traffic is almost nothing everything is on lightly loaded apc battery backups so we are very seldom down i d like to swap with someone also using simple dns to take advantage of the trusted zone file transfer option bob musser database services inc makers of process server s toolbox courier service toolbox bobm URL URL NUMBER longhorn road winter park fl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
bob we are a commercial company who host around NUMBER web sites on each of it servers we can t swap with you because we need someone in a similar position thank you javier el viernes NUMBER agosto NUMBER a las NUMBER NUMBER am bob musser escribió i m using simple dns from jhsoft we support only a few web sites and i d like to swap secondary services with someone in a similar position we have a static ip dsl line and a NUMBER NUMBER set of web sql mail and now a dns server as i said we are hosting about NUMBER web sites web and dns traffic is almost nothing everything is on lightly loaded apc battery backups so we are very seldom down i d like to swap with someone also using simple dns to take advantage of the trusted zone file transfer option bob musser database services inc makers of process server s toolbox courier service toolbox bobm URL URL NUMBER longhorn road winter park fl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER atentamente javier cota integración tecnológica NUMBER javier URL ,0
 _ _ _____ _ __ the weekly high tech sarcastic update for the uk _ _ _ __ __NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER_ o join mail an empty message to _ _ o ntknow subscribe URL _ v v o website archive lives at _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ o URL a case in point is web designer matt jones the man responsible for how bbc news online looked when it launched since then he has invented warchalking which he recently described as a curse URL but you cannot turn against me i created you hard news stiffening sinews more hot summer days in the mailinglist alleyways dangerously empty of sane postings strewn with the rotting carcasses of broiling vacation messages hacktress and silicon valley s chief rat keeper lile elam excitedly posts about a new open NUMBER NUMBER network she s found i am here at the police station waiting to see a judge and i thought i would check to see if there is connectivity she writes somewhat recklessly to the bay area wireless list exit the rest of the wifi community through the nearest window and out into the streets where cooling tempers the microsoft palladium boys are on an endless summer tour reassuring the experts that while hmm they suppose pd could theoretically be used as a hollywood drm system they truly have no plans to do any such thing cypherpunk and friend of freedom lucky green hears this thinks up four or five of the obvious palladium drm implementations sends them off to be patented in his name licensing funds we imagine will go on cracking his own drms and so the mail loops on URL administrivia hi mom i m in jail URL green palladium like green kryptonite could lucky get himself arrested under the dmca for distributing a circumvention device worse now we have the eucd incoming could he here in the uk will alan cox go to jail for posting detailed changelogs will even the nicest uk cryptographer or curious garage tinkerer find themselves hauled up under our new and scarily dmcaish copyright regime find out the facts at the free fair deal for copyright conference organised by the irrepressible foundation for information policy research for wednesday NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at the london school of economics all the usual fun from the creators of the scrambling for safety crypto cons we confidently predict government spokesmen caught in headlights wanton dave bird heckling some industry bigwig fighting off the audience with a broken chairleg and other epiphenomena of the interzone between legal minds and hacker ethics oh and fipr are still looking for a programme director so if you re interested let them know we suggested a convention raffle first prize the director s job second prize ross anderson as your personal slave for a day they say there s some rule that would break though URL doesn t the foundation use psychohistory for filling these positions for those of us who can t read the abbreviation eula without thinking of martian fighting machines and their deafening howls which roared like thunder we re sorry to report that this weekend s multimedia performance of jeff wayne s war of the worlds has been postponed due to health and safety issues the event was to feature computer graphics fireworks NUMBERft tall martian fighting machines wreaking havoc and destruction and most terrifyingly of all the possibility of a david essex tribute singer performing with hawkwind but ukpNUMBER tickets for the sat NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER show at manchester s heaton park will still be valid at a range of new venues next summer ironically the martians original invasion plans were similarly thwarted by health and safety issues slain after all man s devices had failed by the humblest creatures that god in his wisdom has put upon this earth bacteria minute invisible bacteria for directly the invaders arrived and drank and fed our microscopic allies attacked them URL from that moment they were doomed anti news berating the obvious moving on from puerile google misspellings weird search and replace artefact URL japanese fan sites for plince steery dan def reppard et al plus the NUMBER NUMBER or more self referential usenet sigs URL URL zerodowntime ad leads to URL slightly harsh alt text URL us military discovers the only translator those bastards seem to understand URL scary blue men herald return of the bizarre bbc hacking pics URL reporter ryan dilley URL pulls his URL face banjo maestro george formby still alive cooking black URL thanks guys that ought to do it URL event queue goto s considered non harmful controversially we re all in favour of the guardian great british blog competition closing date next fri NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER first prize ukpNUMBER entry free in that any initiative that encourages this notoriously primadonna ish community to try and engage with real world notions of editorial quality surely has to be a good thing our only disappointment is that the guardian appears to be focussing on the best of the entries when everyone knows the real fun is to be had cruising the truly terrible examples that the genre has to offer mentally allocating points for most depressing recycling of daypop top NUMBER urls most unsettling revelations about personal life plus of course most tedious linking reciprocal linking to other bloggers in absence of having anything interesting to say URL a strange game professor falken URL the only winning move is not to play tracking sufficiently advanced technology the gathering the respective trademark holders will hate this but windows really is like the sun you have this big hulking mass of concentrated power in the middle with a few small orbiting utilities like winzip and putty and vnc occasionally one will get a bit too close to the os and microsoft will suck it down and turn it into fuel for the system one such discrete satellite remains filezilla the still necessary ftp gui client for windows those who know it won t need the introduction although they might appreciate the note that it s getting close to vNUMBER NUMBER time for dogged ws_ftp users though it s got multiple downloads auto restart of interrupted loads queuing and sftp and kerberos support it s also gpl d which makes it a nice bit of source for anyone wanting to grok winNUMBER networking from something that works URL talking of trademarks will the godzilla people strike before ms memepool ceci n est pas une URL not safe for work next year s red nose day looks more fun than usual URL mirrored disaster recovery suite to go with mirrored bathroom etc URL and then the kid can take you to court for mental cruelty URL funny prefixes in front of chalking n NUMBER the actually quite pragmatic URL no longer knowing or caring if these are prank amazon reviews or not for potter s ever popular vibrating broom URL ditto use this software at your own risk disclaimer for URL daffy duck appears in dock accused of dethpicable behaviour URL URL geek media get out less tv celebrity cameo night tonight with brad pitt in friends NUMBERpm fri cNUMBER sydney pollack in will and grace NUMBER NUMBERpm fri cNUMBER dustin hoffman in v graham norton NUMBER NUMBERpm fri cNUMBER and a singing dancing peanut in globalised trade documentary alt tv NUMBER NUMBERpm fri cNUMBER the bbc have kept mcenroe and the heart monitor got rid of the live crocodiles in gimmicky quizshow the chair NUMBER NUMBERpm sat bbcNUMBER and a month of september NUMBERth specials kicks off with avenging terror NUMBERpm sat sun cNUMBER yet those responsible for bowfinger NUMBERpm sat cNUMBER and notting hill NUMBERpm sun cNUMBER still remain unpunished john the last seduction dahl s rounders NUMBERpm sat bbcNUMBER turns out to be about high stakes poker rather than the girls version of baseball in the wake of dave gorman s important astrology experiment NUMBER NUMBERpm sun bbcNUMBER how about a three way challenge where he tony hawks and pete mccarthy battle to come up with the most lucrative pointless pretext for a book and tv show but we still have a soft spot for ron alien resurrection perlman liberal self flagellation the last supper NUMBER NUMBERpm sun cNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER clear the skies NUMBERpm sun bbcNUMBER is a presumably uneventful account of how us air defence systems responded to the events of september NUMBERth inexplicably the three finalists in the tartiest men in britain NUMBER NUMBERpm mon itv all come from leeds larry clark takes a somewhat indirect approach to conveying his safe sex message in new york filth fest kids NUMBER NUMBERam tue cNUMBER and the september NUMBERth build up continues with how the twin towers collapsed NUMBERpm mon cNUMBER let s roll the story of flight NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm wed itv plus the meyssan conspiracy NUMBER NUMBERpm tue cNUMBER ie the french guy behind URL away from the polluted nightmare of modern living a family seek out a new way of life in earth summit tie in a land worth loving NUMBERpm wed bbcNUMBER which coincidentally also forms the plot of this week s second heather bowfinger graham turkey lost in space NUMBER NUMBERpm wed bbcNUMBER not to be confused with the return of those annoying posh women in world s worst dressed NUMBERpm wed bbcNUMBER who have at least shut up about their always doomed hideously purple e commerce site URL film the comic skills of cameron diaz christina applegate and parker posey combine in a cross between a teen smut comedy and an episode of sex and the city the sweetest thing URL as diaz and applegate drive down the road still dressed in just their bras and underwear applegate drops her bottle of fingernail polish diaz then goes over to get it with her panty covered butt in the air and her head down toward applegate s legs and crotch selma blair has her mouth stuck around a man s privates after apparently performing oral sex on him robin williams plays a surprisingly convincing hannibal lecter in morally complicated alaskan al pacino murder madness insomnia URL you can see crystal lowe s tits in autopsy photos and again along with bush when she s seen on a autopsy table nice boobs but she s dead it s eddie murphy randy quaid jay jerry maguire mohr john cleese and pam grier together at last in blaxploitation sci fi spoof the adventures of pluto nash URL the woman then causes the image of rosario kids dawson to suddenly have much larger breasts and an exaggeratedly large rear end all of which shockingly are an improvement on john woo interspersing lame battle scenes with agonising anti racist philosophising in wwNUMBER navajo crypto clunker windtalkers URL gambling beheading brief partial nudity of a japanese soldier i have no doubt that such gore is present in war but must it be regurgitated in and as entertainment small print need to know is a useful and interesting uk digest of things that happened last week or might happen next week you can read it on friday afternoon or print it out then take it home if you have nothing better to do it is compiled by ntk from stuff they get sent registered at the post office as yeah but bet we were banned first URL need to know they stole our revolution now we re stealing it back archive URL unsubscribe mail ntknow unsubscribe URL subscribe mail ntknow subscribe URL ntk now is supported by URL and by you URL k NUMBER special projects copying is fine but include url URL tips news and gossip to tips URL all communication is for publication unless you beg press releases from naive pr people to pr URL remember your work email may be monitored if sending sensitive material sending NUMBERkb attachments is forbidden by the geneva convention your country may be at risk if you fail to comply ,0
 this function should print all numbers up to NUMBER void print_nums int i for i NUMBER i NUMBERl i printf d n i ,0
 this list is sponsored by ironclad networks URL hello friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm bob musser bobm dbsinfo com wrote lost bm i d like to swap with someone also using simple dns to take bm advantage of the trusted zone file transfer option are you speaking about limiting axfr requests on ip address basis if yes then virtually every bind equipped dns server in the world will be suitable for your needs yours sincerely andrey g sergeev aka andris URL to unsubscribe dns swap off lists ironclad net au sponsor host ironclad networks URL ,0
 with our telecoms partner bumblebee don t get ripped off by expensive hotel payphone and mobile charges save save save on international calls with ryanair s phone partner you ll save up to NUMBER on international phone calls when you use our online phone card you can use the card from any phone in any country you visit and you won t have to worry about high phone charges when you call home or the office buying a card couldn t be easier and it s totally secure simply go to URL to avail of this special offer for ryanair customers it s another great deal from ryanair and our online phone partner bumblebee communications e mail disclaimer this e mail and any files and attachments transmitted with it are confidential and may be legally privileged they are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient any views and opinions expressed are those of the individual author sender and are not necessarily shared or endorsed by ryanair holdings plc or any associated or related company in particular e mail transmissions are not binding for the purposes of forming a contract to sell airline seats directly or via promotions and do not form a contractual obligation of any type such contracts can only be formed in writing by post or fax duly signed by a senior company executive subject to approval by the board of directors the content of this e mail or any file or attachment transmitted with it may have been changed or altered without the consent of the author if you are not the intended recipient of this e mail you are hereby notified that any review dissemination disclosure alteration printing circulation or transmission of or any action taken or omitted in reliance on this e mail or any file or attachment transmitted with it is prohibited and may be unlawful if you have received this e mail in error please notify ryanair holdings plc by emailing postmaster URL or contact ryanair holdings plc dublin airport co dublin ireland ,0
severity security product gaim keywords gaim hyperlink manual references can NUMBER NUMBER URL gaim changelog URL gaim is an instant messaging client based on the published toc protocol from aol the developers of gaim an instant messenger client that combines several different networks found a vulnerability in the hyperlink handling code the manual browser command passes an untrusted string to the shell without escaping or reliable quoting permitting an attacker to execute arbitrary commands on the users machine unfortunately gaim doesn t display the hyperlink before the user clicks on it users who use other inbuilt browser commands aren t vulnerable the fixed version of gaim no longer passes the user s manual browser command to the shell commands which contain the s in quotes will need to be amended so they don t contain any quotes the manual browser command can be edited in the general pane of the preferences dialog which can be accessed by clicking options from the login window or tools and then preferences from the menu bar in the buddy list window please download gaim NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or later using red carpet you may also obtain this update from the ximian ftp site debian potato URL URL URL mandrake NUMBER NUMBER URL mandrake NUMBER NUMBER URL mandrake NUMBER NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER URL URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER URL URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER URL URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER URL URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER URL URL solaris NUMBER NUMBER URL suse NUMBER NUMBER URL URL suse NUMBER NUMBER URL URL suse NUMBER NUMBER URL URL suse NUMBER NUMBER URL URL yellowdog NUMBER NUMBER URL URL yellowdog NUMBER NUMBER URL URL yellowdog NUMBER NUMBER URL URL _______________________________________________ updates maillist updates URL to unsubscribe from this list or to change your subscription options follow the link below URL ,0
i am trying to rebuild the recently posted alsa driver package for my kernel although i run red hat NUMBER NUMBER i am not using a red hat kernel package my kernel is lovingly downloaded configured and built by hand call me old fashioned sadly the rpm rebuild fails part way through rpm rebuild alsa driver NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER frNUMBER src rpm gcc dalsa_build d__kernel__ dmodule NUMBER i usr src redhat build alsa driver NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER include i lib modules NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER build include oNUMBER mpreferred stack boundary NUMBER march iNUMBER dlinux wall wstrict prototypes fomit frame pointer pipe dexport_symtab c sound c sound c NUMBER snd_hack_usb_set_interface undeclared here not in a function sound c NUMBER initializer element is not constant sound c NUMBER near initialization for __ksymtab_snd_hack_usb_set_interface value make NUMBER sound o error NUMBER the line in question looks like this usb workaround if linux_version_code kernel_version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if defined config_snd_usb_audio defined config_snd_usb_audio_module defined config_snd_usb_midi defined config_snd_usb_midi_module NUMBER export_symbol snd_hack_usb_set_interface endif endif any suggestions _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
bill stoddard wrote no one likes commercial spam and no one like unsolicited political spam end of story bill URL except perhaps for the people in charge owen URL political spam on your cell phone by lisa m bowman mailto lisa bowman cnet com special to zdnet news august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm pt url URL URL in a decision that treats text messaging on mobile phones essentially the same as bumper stickers the federal election commission has declared that senders of text based political ads don t have to disclose who funded them in an advisory opinion issued thursday the fec also suggested such messages include either a phone number or web site link so people could easily learn who paid for the message however the additional information won t be required the opinion could encourage the adoption of text based political ads as campaign experts look for new technological ways to sway voters at the same time opponents of the plan fear it could lead to anonymous political spam target wireless a small new jersey based wireless media company had asked the fec for an opinion on the matter saying that requiring financial disclosures on short messaging service sms mailings would use up too much of the NUMBER character maximum political messages on bumper stickers and buttons are also exempt from the financial disclosure requirement target wireless petition was supported by the national republican senatorial committee the cellular telecommunications and internet association and some advertising trade groups fec spokesman bob biersack said the opinion was in keeping with the commission s policy not to meddle with new technology that has the potential to reach more voters we have tried very hard not to get in the way particularly before everyone understands how the technology is going to work he said opponents of the plan have worried the exemption might encourage spam or allow senders to blast people with mass amounts of negative political messages while remaining anonymous biersack said the fec can revisit the issue if those problems surface target wireless president craig krueger characterized the opinion as good for america it will allow people to receive more communication from those running for office he said we have free speech on our side ,0
on fri NUMBER aug NUMBER robert harley wrote next time i hear a joke i promise not to laugh until i have checked out primary sources for confirmation in triplicate ok oh please walking sideways like that is bad for your shoes though it is kinda cute when you get all reasonomatic bang bang have a nice day URL ,0
dan brickley wrote except that thanks to the magic of spam it s usually some else s locale yeah physical mail makes more sense for physical locales there are better technical solutions to privacy protection than sending a copy of the same message to everyone on the internet so the recipients can t be blamed for reading it such as anything equivalent will be spam just not email spam dump entry ips for an anonymizing network onto a public bulletin board that s used for other purposes still spam etc etc i m not arguing against other solutions i m arguing that spam is speech if you let governments ban it you re giving them the power to choose who gets to speak lucas URL ,0
 me spam is the tool for dissident news since the fact that it s unsolicited means that recipients can t be blamed for being on a mailing list russell turpin that depends on how the list is collected or even on what the senders say about how the list is collected better to just put it on a website and that way it can be surfed anonymously and it doesn t clutter my inbox it doesn t work that way a website is opt in spam is no opt if you visit a samizdat site you can get in trouble if you get samizdat spam the worst that can be said is that you might have read it and as long as the mailers send to individuals who clearly didn t opt in like party officials then other recipients can t get in trouble for requesting the mail plus it s much harder to block spam than web sites but this shouldn t come as a surprize spam is speech it may be sleazy but so what lucas URL ,0
 xvid NUMBER is a project to make gpl divx codecs sigma designs NUMBER is a company looking to put out hardware to playback amongst other things divx files problem is sigma is using xvids gpled code in ways not very gpl the results xvid stops work on thier code and ask the users to put preasure on sigma to honor the gpl some notes from other places from doomNUMBER NUMBER xvid development has been stopped the sigma designs realmagic mpeg NUMBER video codec contains wide portions of code taken from the xvid project soon after the initial release of the realmagic codec the xvid developers have contacted sigma and informed them about the gpl violation for those who don t know xvid is distributed under the gnu public license gpl which demands that if you modify a gpl program you have to release it under the gpl which in this case means that the source code of the sigma codec must be freely available sigma promised to replace the stolen code but the new version of the codec which was released this month only disguises the stolen code it was not actually removed sigma was once again contacted and asked to remove the offending code but until today nothing has happened therefore the xvid team is now turning to the public in the hope to receive wide public support in their efforts to convince sigma designs to respect the terms of the gpl and until the matter has been resolved xvid development will not continue that being said i hope all the forum members who saw their threads about the sigma codecs being closed will understand our motivation now internally we already knew what was going on but since the xvid authors first wanted to try and resolve this internally we respected their wishes and kept quiet about the matter at hand update sigma has issued a press release announcing the availability of the source code of their mpeg NUMBER codec and it s already up for download however not a word was lost about the xvid issue and the press release makes one think that the sigma codec was entirely developed by sigma so we might be hearing more about this update i found a gpl notice in some of the source code files but it also looks like sigma placed their own copyright lines there and xvid doesn t get any credit in the source either the gpl notice also collides with sigma s software licensing agreement that you have to sign before downloading codec or source on on the same issue divxnetworks said they d fully support xvid in this issue and apparently dxn s relationship with sigma didn t really work out either as sigma s xcard is not as divx compatible as it was advertised update first an update on the xvid situation the release of the sigma source code does not mean it s all over it s far from being over the license agreement which you have to agree to before you can download and install the codec is not compatible with the gpl furthermore it can now clearly be seen download the source code and have a look for yourself that the sigma codec is pretty much a copy of the xvid codec but all the copyright notices of the original developers have been removed and replaced this does not only violate the gpl but copyright laws you can t just take a program change a few lines and change the copyright statements you only have copyright protection for the parts you wrote on your own and related to this the sigma codec also contains code taken from the opendivx project the files were outfitted with NUMBER different copyright notices which is quite funny NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL URL ,0
 russell turpin that depends on how the list is collected or even on what the senders say about how the list is collected senders should vary the recipient list to include non targets like party officials and to exclude targets enough to give them plausible deniability lucas URL ,0
on fri NUMBER aug NUMBER tom wrote xvid NUMBER is a project to make gpl divx codecs sigma designs NUMBER is a sorry sigma designs should be the NUMBER not the NUMBER URL ,0
from URL there has mostly been talk thus far and little action but the department of justice says it may be ready to file criminal lawsuits against individuals NUMBER who distribute or receive unauthorized copyrighted material over the internet deputy assistant attorney general john malcolm believes that criminal prosecutions of copyright offenders are now necessary to preserve the viability of america s content industries malcolm also believes that people who trade copyrighted material think they are participating in a legal activity i certainly think people who download copyrighted works understand that such distribution barring provisions such as fair use is not authorized and it is not surprising to see businesses continue to look for means to discourage distribution of copyrighted works some prosecutions that make that clear could be very helpful i think they would think twice if they thought there was a risk of criminal prosecution said riaa president cary sherman who was on the same conference panel i m not too confident that lawsuits would have the effect sherman is hoping for although infrequent there have already been civil suits or warnings issued to private individuals and they have served as minor deterrents to the file sharing community at large criminal lawsuits carrying with them the possibility of prison sentences may generate further animosity against groups such as the riaa and may be difficult to initiate because of the schooling effect of millions of systems participating in file sharing only servers would seem to stand out from the crowd the article cites the no electronic theft net act NUMBER which defines illegal activity and maximum penalties for copyright infringement criminal infringement any person who infringes a copyright willfully for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain or by the reproduction or distribution including by electronic means during any NUMBER day period of NUMBER or more copies or phonorecords of NUMBER or more copyrighted works which have a total retail value of more than NUMBER NUMBER for purposes of this subsection evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work by itself shall not be sufficient to establish willful infringement the term financial gain includes receipt or expectation of receipt of anything of value including the receipt of other copyrighted works therefore receipt of a work of value would be defined as financial gain even if no money is involved the net act excerpt does not clarify how the value of a work is determined an album or movie could be worth only NUMBER to millions of dollars depending on whether the value is assessed from the perspective of the consumer or copyright holder the statute of limitations NUMBER limitations on actions a criminal proceedings no criminal proceeding shall be maintained under the provisions of this title unless it is commenced within five years after the cause of action arose b civil actions no civil action shall be maintained under the provisions of this title unless it is commenced within three years after the claim accrued the penalties are too extensive to list here but they can be found in section NUMBER criminal infringement of a copyright in general first time criminal offenses will carry a maximum prison sentence of NUMBER year i m still not sure where the doj would start in choosing people to prosecute because of the aforementioned schooling effect but my guess would be that just like speeding primarily the most prominent individuals who operate large servers or transfer the most data will be targeted in order to discourage more recreational file sharers thanks to monalisaoverdrive for pointing out this story NUMBER URL NUMBER URL URL ,0
on fri NUMBER aug NUMBER tom wrote from URL there has mostly been talk thus far and little action but the department of justice says it may be ready to file criminal lawsuits against individuals NUMBER who distribute or receive unauthorized copyrighted material over the internet and yet still noone is out there creating _public domain_ content is there even one person out there can can even begin to talk without being a complete hypocrite and no the open source people cant talk either the gpl aint even close i know i cant talk if the creator didnt say you could have it without paying it s theft so simple hell that s even in all the major holy books fair use needs to be clarified a bit and then i hope they start locking people up how else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone that makes things people are supposed to drumroll pay for adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL URL ,0
reza b far ebuilt wrote problems why do most computer scientists insist on solving the same problems over and over again when there are some many more important and interesting problems high level to be solved amen doing it in an unecessarily harder way does not make you more of a man or less of a kiddie joe ,0
if i have any rpms in URL that could be useful to some one with a real apt repository or someone who wants to maintain a package be it known i am not selfish i found stuff i thought would later get popular so i would not have to maintain the rpms for them after they hit the big time gnumpNUMBERd is an exapmple of this so if anyone is psyched go for it if so let me know so i can get the rpms from you in the future that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER reza b far ebuilt wrote NUMBER c and c forces the developer to solve problems such as memory management over and over again imho java is superior because the problem of programming in the future is not about NUMBER s and NUMBER s making the compiler NUMBER faster or making your code take NUMBER less memory it s about design patterns architecture high level stuff considering NUMBER of the fake job posting i see are for embedded systems or device drivers c still rules the world NUMBER java is not just a programming language it s also a platform there is nothing like the standard api s in java in c and c everyone defines their own api s people end up solving the same problems ten different ways the problem is the problem you re trying to solve is never the same java will soon suffer api rot alot of poeple are already complaining about it it s just new c was clean in the beginning too api rot is purely a function of age NUMBER if you have a program of any type of high complexity written in c you can t possibly think that you could port it to different platforms within the same magnitude of cost as java i do this all the time it s alot easier then you think if the original programmer had a clue at all java does remove the clue requirement tho just adds a huge testing requirement qa guys aren t as cheap NUMBER makes no sense for a scientific or a business project to depend on a person java imho reduces the dependence of these entities on the individual developer as it is much easier to reverse engineer java as it is to reverse engineer c large applications no it s not but you can hire teams of javites for cheap at your local high school java is about cutting costs and commoditizing programming and it s working adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
 NUMBER hardware is getting so fast that i m not sure if the performance difference between java and c c are relevant any more when out of the box parsing transform of xml in java is NUMBERx slower than c on the same hardware then it does matter ,0
adam beberg considering NUMBER of the fake job posting i see are for embedded systems or device drivers c still rules the world there is a lot of c in the embedded world with static object allocation and a few other programming techniques performance differences disappear but c gives a boost in development and maintainability the real issue is compiler availability almost every embedded platform has c cross compilers many have c compilers but there is still a range of platforms that have the first but not the second or at least that was the story a few years ago _________________________________________________________________ send and receive hotmail on your mobile device URL ,0
on sun sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER paul jakma mentioned on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER kevin lyda wrote gnu date is limited by time_t but i thought time_t expired in NUMBER this seems to show it expiring in NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER course on ultrasparc xNUMBER NUMBER iaNUMBER alpha etc NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so we should be safe enough may i assume that xNUMBER NUMBER will be able to use a NUMBERbit time_t too kate irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER russell turpin wrote adam beberg considering NUMBER of the fake job posting i see are for embedded systems or device drivers c still rules the world there is a lot of c in the embedded world with static object allocation and a few other programming techniques performance differences disappear but c gives a boost in development and maintainability agreed not much difference there with c it just doesnt seem as wrong to be crawling around in registers and things quite frankly you cant fit _that_ big of a project into a NUMBERk rom so large project issues dont matter as much in the embedded world and in the realtime space or when you have data coming in at NUMBERgbit sec fibrechannel every cycle does count the real issue is compiler availability almost every embedded platform has c cross compilers many have c compilers but there is still a range of platforms that have the first but not the second or at least that was the story a few years ago definately still very very true c compilers are still a rarity adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
 dell quinn account executive fleishman hillard saunders NUMBER fitzwilliam quay dublin NUMBER ireland tel NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER mobile NUMBER NUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
reza b far wrote this thread kind of surprises me i started coding with c then c and moved on to java and i think that looks like a case of my experience is comprehensive your s is anecdotal they don t know what they re talking about NUMBER the people who pay the wages don t give a flyin heck what programming language you write things in they just want it to work in my experience they do care it has to work certainly and in particular it has to work with what they ve already got and it has to work on client s systems my limited experience of java started a few years ago when support on linux was so terrible that i ran away screaming and haven t come back yet microsoft has announced that they plan to remove java from windows they took it out of xp already and it has to be installed with a service pack somehow i can t imagine them removing the ability to run c programs NUMBER c and c forces the developer to solve problems such as memory management over and over again can t say i spend any noticeable amount of time on memory management issues apart from the fact that i frequently need NUMBER gb it s about design patterns architecture high level stuff if your problem just requires application of a design pattern to solve then it s trivial anyway irrespective of language i am amazed by the amount of time wasted by people talking about low level problems that have been solved NUMBER million times over and over and over again you appear to be gratuitously asserting that c programmers waste time on irrelevant low level problems and java programmers don t depends entirely on the programmer not the language NUMBER java is not just a programming language it s also a platform buzzword a monolithic set of api s or a crap load of different api s slicing and dicing the same problems NUMBER different ways unsupported assertion NUMBER if you have a program of any type of high complexity written in c you can t possibly think that you could port it to different platforms within the same magnitude of cost as java dunno e g i ported a wee NUMBER line c program to darwin on powerpc in a few minutes yesterday sure if it was badly designed it would be NUMBER times the size and harder to port if it depended on unavailable libraries it would be much harder portable code is easy to port at least that is the case when then language you used is available on the target platform i also run on arm systems with no proper java NUMBER makes no sense for a scientific or a business project to depend on a person java imho reduces the dependence of these entities on the individual developer as it is much easier to reverse engineer java as it is to reverse engineer c large applications you can pay a good programmer to solve your problem now or else get some kids to hack spaghetti fortran in any language and then pay for maintenance headaches ad infinitum NUMBER hardware is getting so fast that i m not sure if the performance difference between java and c c are relevant any more whoah performance matters to me every day right now i m taking time out to write email while waiting for a job to run sure i could wait NUMBER years until everyone s pc is fast enough to generate random ec s in no time when any twit will be able to program inefficient code that is fast enough and the market will be overrun by competitors or i can do it now when very few people can the end goal is the scientific or business problem to be solved yes and for those problems languages such as java smalltalk and others allow you to think more high level than low level thinking of bits and bytes takes too much gray matter away from the real important problems it s true i admit everything mea maxima culpa working in c makes me spend all day thinking base rank thoughts about hard core bitography not actually i spend most of my time thinking in high level mathematics why do most computer scientists insist on solving the same problems over and over again dunno and frankly i don t see the relevance to the issue at hand i m sure java is fine for some stuff as is c or whatever horses for courses bye rob _ ,0
i need to setup a vpn between a few sites from what i ve read the the choices come down on the linux side to ipsec using freeswan or cipe it seems that freeswan is better being an implementation of ipsec which is a standard however cipe does the job as well for linux clients and is somewhat simpler to setup the problem is that it s not a pure linux situation a couple of the sites run os x i m pretty sure that i ll be able to find an implementation of ipsec for os x but i think cipe is linux only so the question is for those of you have have implemented both is there a significant difference in setup time and hassle between cipe and freeswan if cipe is going to be much easier than dealing with freeswan and whatever on the os x sites then i ll simply get a linux box for each of the remote sites with the low price of hardware it doesn t take much more complexity in software to make buying hardware to use simpler software economic niall irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
i am trying to manage the email for a domain which i have hosted with hostingNUMBER and am trying to get the whole email send and receive thing working nice and easily at the moment i have configured fetchmail to poll the different popNUMBER mailboxes and deliver the mail accordingly although it appears that i have to have only one unix user being able to receive from each popNUMBER mailbox this could be a limitation of the fetchmailconf programme i m not sure but it would be much handier if i could just tell it to collect all of the mail from the different mailboxes and then deliver it locally according to the to header instead of the popNUMBER mailbox it came from the other issue i am having is sending outgoing mail i have been trying to use sendmail but am finding it to be an absolute pain in the posterior and when the relay server will only accept outgoing connections if i have checked for incoming mail in the last twenty minutes and i don t know how to set sendmail to run a command before it sends out the mail do any of the outgoing mailer programs exim or postfix or whatever have a nice configuration interface or do they all have nice friendly configuration files like sendmail any suggestions of alternative solutions would be much appreciated there are only three or four email addresses in my domain and setting it up for scheduled collection and either scheduled or immediate delivery would do me fine thanks david david hamilton senior technical consultant hp ireland irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hi all i m trying to set up the following NUMBER a linux server running with a modem for internet connectivity and an ethernet card for lan connectivity NUMBER other lan pcs with ethernet cards using the linux server for dns dhcp etc basically i want to route any non lan traffic through the pppNUMBER i ve got some of the way but like a similar post earlier about modem problems when i am connected to the internet with ehtNUMBER up the routing is all incorrect and noting goes out through pppNUMBER ehNUMBER must be the default route or something is there standard out of the box linux tools that will carry out portmapping on behalf of the lan pcs i m planning on non routable addresses NUMBER NUMBER x x for the lan routed outwards via the pppNUMBER interface can someone point me at the right howtos or routing documentation i need to follow thanks dermot irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hi dermot if have a look at one of the dists like URL it will save you lots of time and effort and should do eveything you want justin original message from ilug admin URL mailto ilug admin URL on behalf of dermot daly sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to ilug URL subject ilug what howtos for soho system hi all i m trying to set up the following NUMBER a linux server running with a modem for internet connectivity and an ethernet card for lan connectivity NUMBER other lan pcs with ethernet cards using the linux server for dns dhcp etc basically i want to route any non lan traffic through the pppNUMBER i ve got some of the way but like a similar post earlier about modem problems when i am connected to the internet with ehtNUMBER up the routing is all incorrect and noting goes out through pppNUMBER ehNUMBER must be the default route or something is there standard out of the box linux tools that will carry out portmapping on behalf of the lan pcs i m planning on non routable addresses NUMBER NUMBER x x for the lan routed outwards via the pppNUMBER interface can someone point me at the right howtos or routing documentation i need to follow thanks dermot irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
i think i ll ask this question again as i sent on friday afternoon justin hi can anyone point me to a howto on running mailing lists not looking for anything that is package specific but rather something that gives general info on the various email headers and dealing with returned mails errors in transport etc thanks justin irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
ray dermody s dermodyr itcarlow ie NUMBER lines of wisdom included hi all the serial number in our hosts files on our dns server has gone corrupt e g NUMBER should be NUMBER its okay to set this back to todays date but i understand that our secondary and terninary dns servers will only update from the master hosts file if the master host serial number is greater than the current serial number in the hosts file is there any way i can reset this on the secondary and terninary dns servers once you have the serial changed on the master dns server remove the appropiate zone s on your slaves and refresh your dns servers bind has a special case if you set the serial to NUMBER i think dns bind should have something on that philip reynolds rfc networks tel NUMBER NUMBER URL fax NUMBER NUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message vincent cunniffe wrote justin maccarthy wrote i think i ll ask this question again as i sent on friday afternoon mailman trust me you do not want to running your own mailing lists on your own software you ll wind up crying in a dark room looking for something high voltage to stick your fingers into all things considered i get that effect with mailman but the viable alternatives are ezmlm which is loonware and i m avoiding on principle and majordomo which seems to have stagnated oh and there s apparently something called smartlist which is a bitch to set up waider waider URL yes it is very personal of me begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux comment using gnupg with mozilla URL iqevawubpxneNUMBERhbxyzzsabNUMBERaqhNUMBERkqf xqeomahnxalzbmgdNUMBERiydNUMBERvqaagwarNUMBERdq kdpzNUMBERnbecrNUMBERosNUMBERpjolyNUMBERlspkgnshpjcdzirsxjvxmfpNUMBERyrnqNUMBERaypNUMBERhggwrvwgjgb NUMBERnNUMBERhg rgezNUMBERsNUMBERrhuNUMBERrauhpfbNUMBERxoNUMBERxzmiNUMBERgskdhsgefqsuoazNUMBERvzvllsiriyhfy NUMBERu vrpvtpNUMBERryrNUMBERhaxNUMBERjxuNUMBERgvwftNUMBERkNUMBERddfftaimqgcsjnuNUMBERmxcmi ptqNUMBERrtxhxd wzhxcr fawirekNUMBERyzNUMBERdrlNUMBER gjlNUMBERyjqfsowumqzqlkkutxNUMBERljvvNUMBERosNUMBERydjgraqpxm jmqNUMBERlifudzayccbixxNUMBERzcxmslppNUMBERcNUMBERwjNUMBERxjsywNUMBERrcjuNUMBERbgxtqhmbq egNUMBERx end pgp signature irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
justin maccarthy wrote i think i ll ask this question again as i sent on friday afternoon mailman trust me you do not want to running your own mailing lists on your own software you ll wind up crying in a dark room looking for something high voltage to stick your fingers into regards vin irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER your actual serial number is NUMBER from a dig i ve just done try resetting the zone number to NUMBER some of your secondaries seem to have a serial number below that so they clearly regard NUMBER as being less than NUMBER that should enable them to pick up the new zonefile t at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ray dermody wrote hi all the serial number in our hosts files on our dns server has gone corrupt e g NUMBER should be NUMBER its okay to set this back to todays date but i understand that our secondary and terninary dns servers will only update from the master hosts file if the master host serial number is greater than the current serial number in the hosts file is there any way i can reset this on the secondary and terninary dns servers ray dermody computing services technician i t carlow NUMBER NUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL via URL ireland is a wholly owned limited irish company although connected to the via global network via URL ireland is separate from and is not owned by via URL inc or any member of the via URL inc group begin pgp signature version pgpfreeware NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for non commercial use http www pgp com iqa awubpxnfoNUMBERwyzbxNUMBERegNUMBEReqlfnwcfaknapokbgNUMBERjNUMBERjqqqehgiwfdNUMBERsNUMBERaopNUMBERj glbtgrNUMBERkNUMBERfzylnnrncftNUMBERfst rurr end pgp signature irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hi all damian conway is in belfast this week he will be giving two talks o perl NUMBER tuesday NUMBERrd september NUMBERpm jury s belfast o quantum superpositions thursday NUMBERth september NUMBERpm jury s belfast he is also doing training courses URL wesley irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 it s monday NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER student life begins with linux by john sterne the launch last month of a marketing special interest group by the irish linux users group ilug open source and marketing it seems might not be mutually exclusive concepts has already sparked an interesting initiative at university college cork when the new academic year begins at ucc every incoming student will be offered a copy of red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER ilug member braun brelin proposed this promotion when he ran a training class for staff at the ucc computer science department brelin who is the director of technology at openapp says that the linux offer could be extended to any or all of the other irish universities the user group is tapping into an international red hat programme that aims to introduce students at all levels to the open source style of computing the linux distributor runs an educational channel to reach this audience bundling educational software with its operating environment and offering networked support services to eligible applicants this scheme was originally designed to suit the educational structures in the us but is now available to schools and universities throughout the world red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER incorporates ease of use and maintenance features and is intended to counter objections that linux is hard to master on personal systems the linux for all project at ucc could also raise the profile of red hat ireland based in cork this operation has run shared financial services for other red hat offices in europe since NUMBER until now its involvement with users in ireland has been fairly limited although it does sometimes refer them to other red hat offices in europe that offer consulting or technical support services david owens red hat s director of global logistics and production sees the formation of the ilug marketing group as a reason to take a more proactive approach in the last three months he notes his office in cork has received more and more calls from irish companies that are interested in adopting linux and has introduced some to red hat pre sales consultants many thanks are due to braun and david for working together on this one regards l irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
i just saw the isos on an internal server here and was tempted d original message from john p looney mailto valen tuatha org sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to hamilton david hp ireland exNUMBER cc ilug URL subject re ilug redhat NUMBER NUMBER on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER hamilton david hp ireland exNUMBER mentioned does anyone know when redhat NUMBER NUMBER is going to be released i have seen some iso images of it around and i am trying to work out if it s near release null the third beta was out last week it ll be an interesting release gnome NUMBER NUMBER and gcc NUMBER NUMBER both very new large projects i d not be putting it on any production machines for a while though many say redhat x NUMBER releases are rubbish it s worth baring in mind that they jump a release when the underlying archtechture changes not just the installer so they are NUMBER for a reason kate irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
ok so if i was in the uk for a wekk how might i configure my laptop to dial in to a freebie isp redhat s internet connection wizard actually has settings for uk isp s but freeserve is the only one i recognize and it doen t seem to work has anyone here done this kevin kevin URL that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to fork ed on NUMBER the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier meatspace place home than a sober one the happiness of credulity is a URL cheap dangerous quality g b shaw irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
vernon i m changing the instructions in the spamassassin install file right now to tar xfvz dcc dccproc tar z cd dcc dccproc x x x configure make make install cdcc info let me know asap if that s innapropriate since we re shipping NUMBER NUMBER today c on monday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am vernon schryver wrote here are the instructions in the spamassassin readme tar xfvz dcc dccproc tar z cd dcc dccproc x x x configure make make install cdcc new map cdcc add URL cdcc info that s ok except that the new map and add URL are respectively unnecessary and wrong the map file that comes with the source points to localhost and URL those two shipped entries usually do the right thing if there is a local server if there is no local server or if the local server fails requests are instantly sent to one of the public server names listed in the main dcc web page at URL and http www dcc URL URL has not been listed for months ,0
on september NUMBER kialllists URL said os x is linux er no it s not it s kinda bsd related but it s definitely not linux waider waider URL yes it is very personal of me since i am project leader i must not be permitted to go insane theo de radt irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 from paul linehan mailto plinehan yahoo com there are two open alternatives that i can think of that don t appear to have been mentioned elsewhere in this thread one is firebird this is my personal favourite it is URL and you can purchase support contracts here URL indeedy i had never even heard of firebird until we started a new job last week with a client who uses it so we popped it onto a box downstairs and wow it is fast comes with some lovely client tools also supports all the db goodies transactions stored procedures triggers it s really amazing to think how much they ve got out of a db that is only NUMBER mb in size that s NUMBER times smaller than the oracle _client_ having said all of the above oracle is really a super product but ya pays ya money ibm s dbNUMBER is another cheaper alternative to oracle free single developer license downloadable from their website fergal irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
here s a weird and wacky problem i m currently out of the country with my trusty evo nNUMBERc laptop when i tried to use the serial port to talk to my mobile phone linux behaved pretty much as if the port was fried bizarre i thought because i d used it successfully while in the office the only difference was that i was trying the thing in the hotel i entertained brief notions of having somehow fried the serial drivers then rebooted the laptop to windows and tried again worked perfectly back to linux still not talking considered that it might be flaky power so i ran the laptop on battery nope tried moving the laptop to a differnet part of the room where there might be less bogon flux still not working eventually i gave up and used the irda port instead which is usually the serial connection of doom grief and teeth grinding this morning in the office the damn thing is working without a hitch anyone like to suggest what mystery technology is in use in the hotel that prevents serial ports from working under linux cheers waider waider URL yes it is very personal of me irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on sat oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER padraig brady mentioned ok i m upgrading vorbis on my machine and i m getting the following rpm u libvorbis vorbis tools NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm error failed dependencies libvorbisfile so NUMBER is needed by sdl_mixer NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER libvorbisfile so NUMBER is needed by xmms NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER libvorbisfile so NUMBER is needed by tuxracer NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this is because the new libvorbis rpm only has libvorbisfile so NUMBER so is this a problem in the other packages depending on a specific version libvorbisfile so NUMBER rather than on the generic URL this is a pain the only way you can resolve this to my knowledge is to download the original libvorbis rpm and the new one remove the old one then do rpm uvh libvorbis rpm then assumes that you want both versions installed at the same time and does so why you can t do this after you have one library already installed is beyond me kate irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
john p looney wrote the only way you can resolve this to my knowledge is to download the original libvorbis rpm and the new one remove the old one then do rpm uvh libvorbis rpm then assumes that you want both versions installed at the same time and does so why you can t do this after you have one library already installed is beyond me does using the oldpackage flag help your pain or is your pain caused by obsoletes flags cheers waider waider URL yes it is very personal of me irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
david neary said for the francophones among you this article is a summary of the reasons why most free software licences and the gpl in particular are not valid in france URL google translation hard to read most of the time but good enough to pick up the gist URL in brief in an international contract when mentioning copyright you must mention under which jurisdiction s laws the copyright is applied french law requires the licence to be available in french the gpl isn t and french law requires that for a contract to be valid it must not breach existing law also under french law the copyright holder automatically retains the right to change the licence which means that french law is in conflict with the gpl which requires authorisation from all authors before a licence change is allowed also there s some stuff about french consumer law forbidding sale without guarantee of anything so software delivered as is breaches consumer law in france but i didn t really follow that my french is a bit iffy these days but if this is true does it not also nullify microsoft adobe and winzip licences amongst most others these all claim no liability no guarantees m say delivered with all faults so at least they are honest ciaran irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
is there a way to get my read email downloaded off URL i ve been reading the emails using the web based interface but i ve reached my quota limit there doesn t seem to be any way to get the emails off the server i can connect to the account using pop but that only retrieves unread emails there s also no way to mark emails as unread from the html interface is there a way i can use fetchmail perhaps to get it to pull down all the emails and remove them off the server it s been years since i ve used fetchmail i don t recall be able to do this any other suggestions welcome there s a few hundred email so i don t fancy going through each one forwarding it to another account glen irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
seems fetchmail has a a switch to get it all just need to install fetchmail now glen on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER stephane dudzinski wrote funny enough that also happened to a friend of mine who uses both the web interface and a pop client last time i tried to send a picture which was around NUMBERk it got denied saying that quota was exceeded when he looked at his account on the web it mentionned NUMBER mb free so i have no idea what they re playing at doesn t really help but just wanted to confirm the problem steph on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER glen gray wrote is there a way to get my read email downloaded off URL i ve been reading the emails using the web based interface but i ve reached my quota limit there doesn t seem to be any way to get the emails off the server i can connect to the account using pop but that only retrieves unread emails there s also no way to mark emails as unread from the html interface is there a way i can use fetchmail perhaps to get it to pull down all the emails and remove them off the server it s been years since i ve used fetchmail i don t recall be able to do this any other suggestions welcome there s a few hundred email so i don t fancy going through each one forwarding it to another account glen irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ______________________________________________ stephane dudzinski systems administrator newworldiq t NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL f NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
it seems to only support pppoa and not pppoe you need one that supports pppoe if you want torun it in routed ip mode if you are using it as a bridge it ll probably work but you d be left leaving the computer on which would defeat the purpose of getting a router the best router i ve come accross is the zyxel NUMBER eircom supply this but if you have alook online you can probably find it cheaper to buy online from america or the uk hope this is useful joe irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on mon oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER ciaran johnston wrote also there s some stuff about french consumer law forbidding sale without guarantee of anything so software delivered as is breaches consumer law in france but i didn t really follow that my french is a bit iffy these days but if this is true does it not also nullify microsoft adobe and winzip licences amongst most others these all claim no liability no guarantees m say delivered with all faults so at least they are honest apparently the angle on this i e selling without guarantee is that software is not a product which is sold but a service which is licensed at least that s what i remember reading about how m gets away with providing no guarantee in the u s if you re feeling rather deep pocketed you could always try suing m to get a court s view on the matter niall irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
having great fun trying to find a dumb adsl modem with ethernet presentation everybody wants to sell routers but i intend on doing pppoe from another device something with more than one ethernet port would be nice anybody got any recommendations uly original message from joefitz netsoc ucd ie to decdelmur iol ie cc ilug URL sent monday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject re ilug adsl router modem combo it seems to only support pppoa and not pppoe you need one that supports pppoe if you want torun it in routed ip mode if you are using it as a bridge it ll probably work but you d be left leaving the computer on which would defeat the purpose of getting a router the best router i ve come accross is the zyxel NUMBER eircom supply this but if you have alook online you can probably find it cheaper to buy online from america or the uk hope this is useful joe irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on sun oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER declan de lacy murphy wrote i am planning to get i stream solo and share it across a small network wireless but i don t want to have to pay eircom for a router and having a noisy pc running constantly isn t really an option because at home inevitably someone will unplug it i have been looking at a number of products and although i read the thread about eircom needing pppoe last august i am still not sure if the one that i am interested in will do the job it is a hawking technology ar NUMBER URL and if it does the job it will actually be cheaper than the modem eircom is selling i would really appreciate if someone could look at the spec on the hawking web page and give me an opinion thanks in advance declan i got the dsl w NUMBERe from URL though it s not at all the best one around i have to say it does the job and a bit some of the features can be a pain to get working ie pptp in pppoe mode can t figure it out the documentation is not the best but the guys from URL will help you ouit they also have a message board the command line interface is quite powerful but absolutely not userfriendly all in all it s a cheap desent performer that i am happy enough with got this one including a microfilter not needed for NUMBEReuro including shipping better than any deal from eircom tor irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 in forteana y webmaster webmaster b wrote right talking stick but what the hell is marathon snickers jif cif and calls itself secret chiefs drs rebranding taking something and changing nothing about it except its name in the uk marathon bars became snickers bar jif cleaning fluid became cif and talking stick became secret chiefs y know scott at once a fun fair a petrified forest and the great temple of amun at karnak itself drunk and reeling in an eccentric earthquake _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 original message from scott wood skitster hotmail com to zzzzteana yahoogroups com sent monday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject zzzzteana re megalithomania unpissup in forteana y webmaster webmaster b wrote right talking stick but what the hell is marathon snickers jif cif and calls itself secret chiefs drs rebranding taking something and changing nothing about it except its name in the uk marathon bars became snickers bar jif cleaning fluid became cif and talking stick became secret chiefs y know scott at once a fun fair a petrified forest and the great temple of amun at karnak itself drunk and reeling in an eccentric earthquake _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL yahoo groups sponsor home selling try us URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
so i ve been letting the little exe of seti home run endlessly on my pc last total for this upgrade approx NUMBER hours of scanning time and still no et i m so disappointed does anyone else on the list let berkeley use their computer for research in this manner URL drs non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL a new theory on mapping the new world by guy gugliotta washington post staff writer monday october NUMBER NUMBER page aNUMBER in NUMBER a group of scholars working in france produced an extraordinary map of the world the first to put the still recent discoveries of columbus and others into a new continent separate from asia and to call that continent america with the waldseemuller map the new world was born but there was something else what would later come to be called south america and central america were surprisingly well shaped not only on the east coast where explorers had already sailed but also on the west coast which no european was known to have seen the ice cream cone bulge that sticks out into the pacific at the junction of modern day chile and peru is readily visible and in almost exactly the right geographical spot not only in the main map but also in an inset printed along its top the shape of south america in the main map appears distorted because of the curvature of the earth it is an improbable coincidence if it was a coincidence for the map NUMBER large printed pages to be arrayed in one NUMBER square foot wall display was published six years before vasco balboa s NUMBER trip across the isthmus of panama and NUMBER years before ferdinand magellan s NUMBER NUMBER trip around the world did someone get there earlier yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
understand not enough caffeine absorbed yet this morning NUMBER NUMBERam here for me drs in forteana y webmaster webmaster b wrote right talking stick but what the hell is marathon snickers jif cif and calls itself secret chiefs drs rebranding taking something and changing nothing about it except its name in the uk marathon bars became snickers bar jif cleaning fluid became cif and talking stick became secret chiefs y know scott at once a fun fair a petrified forest and the great temple of amun at karnak itself drunk and reeling in an eccentric earthquake _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
ananova man admits soham kidnapping hoax calls a man has admitted making hoax calls to police investigating the disappearance of soham schoolgirls jessica chapman and holly wells wrexham magistrates court in north wales heard jobless howard youde made three calls to police in cambridgeshire claiming to have abducted the youngsters he was arrested in wrexham in the early hours of august NUMBER when officers traced the call to a phone box on the town s brook street the NUMBER year old of queensway hope near wrexham has pleaded guilty to one count of wasting police time on august NUMBER this year the court was told youde claimed to have no recollection of making the calls having been drinking all day defence lawyer mark arden says the offence was neither premeditated nor calculated but added that this was no excuse he said what he s done is horrific it s unforgivable the distress he s caused the families is unacceptable youde has been released on unconditional bail until november NUMBER when he will be sentenced the hearing has been adjourned for pre sentence reports although the defendant has been warned custody is an option story filed NUMBER NUMBER monday NUMBERth october NUMBER yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 that always amazes me about regular dreams how often they come true in NUMBER or so when i was a student in edinburgh i had a bad dream about being chased around a house by a scary murderous tramp who was carrying a bag full of half penny coins which had long since ceased to be legal tender the next morning as i left the flat i found a half penny on the doormat right outside our door fair gave me the willies that did timc yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 anyone know what quaoar means or stands for can t find it in the dictionary scrabble players should be happy URL quaoar their only god who came down from heaven and after reducing chaos to order out the world on the back of seven giants he then created the lower animals and then mankind los angeles county indians california yahoo groups sponsor home selling try us URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 ok but you ll still let me leave that black and white one there too right i like that one fel okay i see you like that NUMBER s starlet look then i should think about a bio bit but maybe i ll just remain enigmatic and maintain my mystique helen of troy by lentheric or you could let me write one for you mind you i know an awful lot about you yes i like that starlet look but i think you should come out from behind that bike too and let us see what you are wearing looks pretty innerestin fel new cafe forteana is back URL URL weird page URL non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor sell a home with ease URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 or you could let me write one for you mind you i know an awful lot about you oh that could be interesting yes i like that starlet look but i think you should come out from behind that bike too and let us see what you are wearing looks pretty innerestin that bike is all that s between me and my modesty the other photos are not for public consumption fel helen of troy yahoo groups sponsor sell a home for top URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
just the headlines and urls so i don t bore y all too much URL as a us republican i reject george bush s illegal and unconstitutional plan to attack iraq scott ritter URL saudi arabia may start fingerprinting americans URL blair warned war to oust saddam illegal yahoo groups sponsor home selling try us URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 using razorNUMBER via spamassasin system is solaris NUMBER NUMBER with qmail spamassassin run via user s procmail all users who use sa have run razor register razorNUMBER is failing and i can t find anything in the limited docs or on google on it and i m hoping someone can help the error which doesn t prevent sa from working is oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sanchoNUMBER qmail NUMBER NUMBER delivery NUMBER success razorNUMBER_check_skipped _bad_file_number_can t_locate_object_m ethod_ new _via_package_ razorNUMBER client agent _ perhaps_you_forgot_to_load_ razorNUMBER client agent _at_ usr local lib perlNUMBER site_p erl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin URL _line_NUMBER did_NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER looking at URL doesn t really help me and razorNUMBER client agent appears to be in the right place in usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client ideas chris this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
even better URL white house president s war boner must be satisfied the president can t seem to hide his excitement about a possible military conflict with iraq at a recent function honoring america s war widows bush sported a visible erection when his speech turned to the subject of the middle east believe me when i say this with or without the help of other nations with or without un approval we will penetrate iraq s borders with overwhelming force we will pound iraq over and over again without ceasing and once its leaders concede defeat we will seed iraq with american style democracy aides say the podium was scrubbed down thoroughly after the event with a special cleanser biocide not used since the clinton administration yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
tom r URL which one s you timc yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
what takes time and money noting the amounts of each correction and basing the refund delivery method on the amount yesh it s silly to spend NUMBER labor and materials for a NUMBER refund but maybe the only alternative right now is to create dichotomies that require even more time and labor or keep the money see john hall below your mailed refund is a function of bulk in jax we re on the verge of firing at t cable for horrible customer service and over charging what will probably happen if the amount of overage per customer is significant say NUMBER or more the refund will go directly to the customer if it s less the combined total amount will go to the city as lump sum settlement in your case maybe all the customers could vote on line where they d like their lump sum to go of courese they d have to be notified by mail first original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john hall sent monday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject re the absurdities of life they are legally required to do that i got a similar check because an insurance company didn t pay a claim quickly enough it might have been NUMBER although they spent lots more than NUMBER to mail you the check the alternative seems to be to keep the money do you really want companies to have a financial incentive to over bill you just a bit so they could keep it for a company with millions of customers NUMBER customer starts adding up from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of bitbitch URL so i get a check from pac bell today sbc as they re called now turns out they went to the trouble of printing out signing sealing and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole NUMBER NUMBER they easily spent more than this just getting the materials together why the hell do companies bother to do this crap i mean isn t there a bottom line in terms of cost effectiveness i don t think i missed the NUMBER but i sure as hell would have appreciated lower rates in lieu of being returned pennies i m truly stuck on this though i don t know whether to frame the check burn it or cash it in maybe i should find a way to return to sender so they have to spend more money on giving me my NUMBER dues does NUMBER even buy anything anymore funny bit of it is i couldn t even make a phone call these days boggled bb best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
use perl daily headline mailer this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER september NUMBER october NUMBER posted by rafael on monday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL rats posted by km on monday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER september NUMBER october NUMBER rats this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER september NUMBER october NUMBER posted by rafael on monday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL it was a busy week indeed with long threads interesting bugs clever fixes miscellaneous optimizations some new ideas a few jokes mysterious failures and finally a security hole read on this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL rats posted by km on monday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL odud writes rats the rough auditing tool for security is a security auditing utility for c c python perl and php code rats scans source code finding potentially dangerous function calls the goal of this project is not to definitively find bugs the current goal is to provide a reasonable starting point for performing manual security audits produced by NUMBER secure software uses a database so you can alter what you want it to look for not a replacement for using stricture or your head but is a good place to start some security auditing on your perl discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 benoit claimed the prize for his size NUMBER feet in the female division of the competition three women tied for first place with size NUMBER feet winners took home a NUMBER gift certificate to either footlocker or barrie ltd well crap mine are size NUMBER if i d have known the contest was happening i would have gone said justin simon NUMBER the proud owner of size NUMBER feet a lot of the guys have bigger feet than that dexter upshaw NUMBER wears a size NUMBER simon said the NUMBER gift certificate would have almost paid for a new pair of shoes almost if you shop at payless but sure could have used the NUMBER anyway fel new cafe forteana is back URL URL weird page URL non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor home selling try us URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 helen mike wrote chat tends to be on irc quakenet forteana most nights i think this was done mainly because of troll infestation colin has control most nights on there and he keeps an eye on people and kicks them if they come in under assumed names or as soon as they show their true natures just call him billy goat gruff how do you sign up thanks kelly kelly same thing as when you used to come to frogstone on dalnet frogstone is still there and also forteana if you want to go to quakenet just change your server in mirc if that is what you use to that fel new cafe forteana is back URL URL weird page URL non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 i managed to get myself an imac yesterday just a gNUMBER but a good un and was wondering if any of the apple people on here could recommend a good isp for narrow band at the moment for getting online under os x stew my local isp works great with my imac i don t know what you guys have over there but os x ought to let you get online as well as anything else crossing my fingers though i did a upgrade to jaguar and ended up doing a scrape and install after that oh and i am on NUMBERk dialup fel new cafe forteana is back URL URL weird page URL non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor home selling try us URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 tom r URL URL which one s you i m actually taking the photo both figures are in fact waxworks this was in mme tussaud s in of all places sydney australia t damn it tom i had my kids believing you knew albert einstein well until the smart one asked just how old you were now fel new cafe forteana is back URL URL weird page URL non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 that goddess chick wrote thanks fel got no scanner my photo is in that group of NUMBER obsessive compulsive clipsters in ft NUMBER or NUMBER terry great and right now all my pre NUMBERs are in washington state in a cardboard box in a shed in the back of sydde s garage probably mice nests by now put a scanner on your christmas list right above world peace fel new cafe forteana is back URL URL maybe a kind soul with access to that issue and a scanner could scan it and forward to you terry i would appreciate that very much as i won t be getting back to washington until december fel new cafe forteana is back URL URL weird page URL non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor sell a home with ease URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
hi i try to rebuild xine from src package and i get these errors finding provides usr lib rpm find provides finding requires usr lib rpm find requires prereq rpmlib payloadfileshaveprefix NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rpmlib compressedfilenames NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER requires rpmlib rpmlib payloadfileshaveprefix NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rpmlib compressedfilenames NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER requires xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bin sh obsoletes xine devel rpm build errors user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root file not found var tmp xine root usr bin aaxine thx roi _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _kevin hemenway_ finding more channels NUMBER NUMBER in simple terms there are thousands of web sites that are actively providing their news and headlines in a format amphetadesk can understand rss and while amphetadesk knows about a good number of these sites it d be impossible to hunt down each and every single possibility so this page is here to teach you how to fish NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER yahoo the case for regime change NUMBER khatami asked the u n to set a deadline for bush to step down in favor of president in exile al gore the legitimate winner of the NUMBER election the results of which were subverted through widespread voting irregularities and intimidation this will likely require a prolonged bombing campaign targeting major u s cities and military installations followed by a ground invasion led by european forces civilian casualties would likely be substantial said a french military analyst but the american people must be liberated from tyranny even before bush the american political system was a shambles said prof salvatore deluna of the university of madrid their single party plutocracy will have to be reshaped into true parliamentary style democracy moreover the economy will have to be retooled from its current military dictatorship model in which a third of the federal budget goes to arms and taxes are paid almost exclusively by the working class to one in which basic human needs such as education and poverty are addressed their infrastructure is a mess they don t even have a national passenger train system fixing a failed state of this size will require many years welcome news the only way to crush america s fundamentalist tendencies is by showing them who s boss NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied steve sez it s tragic when life imitates wile e coyote cartoons guy boobytraps his house to get his family if they try to break in and seemingly is killed himself by his own traps link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks steve NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied curcumin the chemical that makes curry yellow turns out to be a good compound for treating radiation burns resulting from cancer therapy link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks cheryl _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied a nintendo newsletter from NUMBER is going for ober NUMBER on ebay link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks billy hayes _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the new neiman marcus christmas catalog is out in october including you as an action figure NUMBER NUMBER a bamboo hut NUMBER NUMBER and a leather frisbee NUMBER link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bbc reporter donal macintyre wins high profile libel case against police ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest hundreds of palestinians vent their anger as dozens of israeli tanks withdrew after a gruelling three hour raid on the gaza strip ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER afghanistan in his final report one year from the beginning of the us campaign rory mccarthy finds mounting anger at the military presence ,0
url URL date not supplied the largest object found since NUMBER is half the size of pluto and calls that object s planetary status into question ,0
url URL date not supplied world chess champion vladimir kramnik takes the lead over the computer deep fritz after the machine makes a peculiar mistake ,0
url URL date not supplied a new japanese system allows palmtop computers to swap large amounts of data when their owners shake hands ,0
url URL date not supplied the medicine prize goes to research that revealed how cell suicide sculpts the body and when disrupted causes disease ,0
quoting brendan kehoe brendan zen org as a workaround the various distributions could use a gpg singature to verify correctness of the file since the distributor s secret key is required to create that signature it would add a pretty significant step that would have to be taken to make it possible to replace both a rpm or apt file and its accompanying signature there are complex problems inherent in attempts to implement this URL cheers my pid is inigo montoya you kill NUMBER rick moen my parent process prepare to vi rick URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
brendan kehoe wrote as a workaround the various distributions could use a gpg singature to verify correctness of the file since the distributor s secret key is required to create that signature it would add a pretty significant step that would have to be taken to make it possible to replace both a rpm or apt file and its accompanying signature check your local friendly red hat installation root localhost upNUMBERdate rpm checksig zsh NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER src rpm zsh NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER src rpm mdNUMBER gpg ok of course this is only as useful as say the gpg keys distributed with the kernel tarballs i e if you don t actually bother checking the sig then you are open to abuse it s entirely possible that rpm can be configured to require good signatures but i ve not read that part of the fine manual just yet cheers waider waider URL yes it is very personal of me irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
thanks for the info aj i found weblog at URL which has some click path reporting it s simple but works report generation takes a bit though even with dns resolution turned off donncha on monday NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER aj mckee wrote donncha i ve been using mod_usertrack for a good while now i use in by default in every vhost that i set up i assign a cookie name and set the expiry for about a year i have to say it looks ok a few things to note though if a _______________________________________________ webdev mailing list webdev URL URL ,0
 from the bbc website URL tuesday NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt NUMBER NUMBER uk fake bank website cons victims west african criminals have used a fake version of a british bank s online service to milk victims of cash say police the fake site was used to squeeze more money out of people they had already hooked the site has been shut down but uk national criminal intelligence service ncis said at least two canadians had lost more than NUMBER NUMBER after being taken in by the fake website the scam behind the fake web domain was the familiar one that offers people a share of the huge sums of money they need moved out of various african nations ncis said the use of the web was helping the conmen hook victims that would otherwise spot the scam convincing site news of this latest scam was revealed by bbc radioNUMBERlive it found that an unclaimed web domain of a uk bank had been used by conmen to get more cash out their victims a ncis spokesman said the domain looked legitimate because it had the in front of the bank s name i have seen the microsite myself and it s very sophisticated said the ncis spokesman it s very convincing especially to people not very experienced online once the con was discovered it was quickly shut down however the people behind it have not been caught ncis does know that at least two people have lost more than NUMBER NUMBER the bank involved has bought up the domain used in the con as well as many other permutations of its name to limit the chance it could happen again domain games usually people are first hooked in to what has become known as advanced fee or NUMBER fraud by replying to an unsolicited fax or e mail offering a share of any cash successfully moved out of africa the NUMBER refers to the part of the nigerian penal code dealing with such crimes like any con there is no money to be moved at all and instead anyone taking the bait is asked to pay increasingly large sums to supposedly bribe uncooperative officials and to smooth the passage of the cash although this con has been practiced for years people still fall victim to it ncis estimates that up to five americans are sitting in hotel lobbies in london everyday waiting to meet people connected with this con cutting edge fraud often the conmen provide fake banking certificates to give the con an air of legitimacy people tricked into clicking on fake sites but a spokesman for ncis said fake or spoof websites are now being used in place of the certificates to many people nowadays the cutting edge of banking technology is web technology said the spokesman one of the first groups of conmen to use this method set up a fake website that supposedly gave victims access to accounts held at the south african reserve bank the country s national bank typically victims are given a login name and password and are encouraged to visit the site so they can see that the cash they are getting a share of has been deposited in their name but before they can get their hands on the cash the victims are typically asked to hand over more of their own money to help the transfer go ahead once the south african police discovered the ruse they declared it a national priority crime and soon arrested the NUMBER people behind it modern gloss an briefing paper prepared by ncis in august on organised crime noted that criminals were increasingly turning to the web to lure new victims and give old cons a modern gloss the ncis spokesman urged people who have fallen victim to NUMBER fraud to come forward and help it track down the perpetrators he said in the last two months it had arrested NUMBER people overseas involved with this type of fraud he said any e mail fax or letter making an offer that looks to good too be true undoubtedly is one of the first companies to fall victim to website spoofing was net payment service paypal conmen set up a fake site and asked people to visit and re enter their account and credit card details because paypal had lost the information the website link included in the e mail looked legitimate but in fact directed people to a fake domain that gathered details for the conmen s personal use yahoo groups sponsor sell a home for top URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL tuesday NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt NUMBER NUMBER uk lennon killer seeks parole again the man who shot dead former beatle john lennon is making another bid for early release from prison the day before what would have been lennon s NUMBERnd birthday mark david chapman NUMBER was jailed for life after he admitted killing the superstar outside his new york apartment building in NUMBER it is the second time in two years that chapman has sought parole from attica state prison at a NUMBER hearing he argued that he was no longer a danger to society and had overcome the psychological problems which led him to shoot the ex beatle chapman had said that a voice in his head told him to shoot the star shot dead lennon was shot four times as he emerged from a limousine outside his new york city apartment on NUMBER december NUMBER he and his wife yoko ono were returning from a late night recording session during which time they had been working on walking on thin ice only hours before the shooting chapman who had come to new york from hawaii was photographed with the singer outside the same building as lennon signed a copy of his album double fantasy for him the killer said lennon had been just a picture on an album cover to him before the shooting deserved death chapman has said that he should have received the death penalty for his crime lennon s widow told the NUMBER parole hearing that she would not feel safe if chapman were released lennon s songwriting partnership with paul mccartney propelled the liverpool based pop group to international stardom and unparalleled commercial success the beatles front man peace campaigner and all round iconoclast would have been NUMBER on wednesday yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 i d normally never buy this but the xbox is eurNUMBER on iol s shop a very large company are making a loss on it and URL mandrake has been released for it isn t it NUMBER in smyths don t forget to add to that the modchip and the time to put it on me thinks unless you want NUMBERd graphics URL is the way to go l irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 URL evangelicals threat to new archbishop direct action threat over liberal views on sexuality stephen bates religious affairs correspondent tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER the guardian evangelical fundamentalists last night stepped up their campaign to oust rowan williams the incoming archbishop of canterbury before he even takes up his post by threatening to take direct action against him the council of the church society the church of england s oldest evangelical body joined a younger evangelical pressure group called reform which is also opposed to dr williams in calling on him to recant his supposedly liberal views on sexuality or stand down following an emergency meeting the NUMBER year old society whose leaders met the archbishop last week proclaimed their continued opposition to his appointment and called on all anglicans to spurn him the move is the latest stage of an increasingly aggressive attempt to destabilise the new archbishop whose leftwing political views are regarded with deep suspicion by the conservative fringes of the evangelical movement some evangelicals object to dr williams s acknowledgement that he has ordained a gay priest something many bishops have done and that those who have sex outside marriage need not necessarily be spurned the new archbishop has repeatedly assured them that he respects the canons of the church nevertheless the society said it is clear that he prefers his private judgment to the voice of scripture to the voice of tradition and to the common mind of the church as such he can only be a focus of disunity the council called upon loyal anglicans to pray specifically that rowan williams would see the error in his teaching change his views or stand down it said the society claimed to have drawn up an action plan including calling on bishops and primates of the NUMBER million worldwide anglican communion of which archbishops of canterbury are the leaders to distance themselves from dr williams s doctrinal and ethical position it promised it would be taking steps towards appropriate direct action it added that dr williams remained on the editorial board of a journal called theology and sexuality which six months ago published articles allegedly commending homosexual behaviour despite its claim the society does not represent the common mind of the church dr williams currently archbishop of wales was chosen by the crown appointments commission of church members including evangelicals and his appointment was endorsed by the prime minister and the queen he is due to succeed george carey who retires this month and will be formally enthroned at canterbury cathedral in february asked what form direct action might take the rev george curry the society s chairman said watch this space presumably it could involve a small minority of parishes repudiating the new archbishop and seeking alternative oversight or even demonstrations at services where dr williams is present church of england bishops who have hitherto largely kept their heads down during the row are meeting next week to discuss their response to the evangelical extremists challenge which appears to have grown in the absence of a robust rebuttal a letter by senior theologians in today s guardian however repudiates the evangelicals tactics calling them unseemly and contrary to biblical teaching on the bbc s thought for the day yesterday angela tilby vice principal of westcott house cambridge accused dr williams s opponents of presumption and blackmail it is in fact a thoroughly aggressive way to behave it is attempting to force an issue by emotional violence manipulating to get your way is often preferable to painstaking negotiation she said last week dr williams said he was deeply saddened matters of sexuality should not have the priority or centrality that reform and the church society have tried to give them the archbishop cannot withdraw his appointment since so many including evangelicals have urged him to take the post the archbishop believes it to be his duty under god yahoo groups sponsor sell a home with ease URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL weevil pest warms to life in south west london james meek science correspondent tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER the guardian they re chomping in chelsea fulham and pimlico but despite their fancy taste in london addresses they are neither posh nor particularly fussy they are vine weevils and they want to eat your plants two species of vine weevil previously unable to survive britain s cold winters have been discovered in south west london and one has also been detected in surrey cardiff and edinburgh this is probably the most serious new garden pest in recent memory said max barclay the curator of beetles at the natural history museum in london who discovered the creatures in the uk the black vine weevil has long been native to britain causing enormous damage to glossy leaved plants such as laurels but the two new species otiorhynchus armadillo and otiorhynchus salicicola not previously known north of switzerland are now prevalent in south london it s very likely these weevils have been introduced to britain through imported ornamental plants from italy said dr barclay it looks like they re here to stay he found otiorhynchus armadillo on the window of a chelsea department store in NUMBER but as the shop sold imported house plants he assumed it was a migrant it has now quietly become the most common species of vine weevil in south west london the second invader is not so numerous but has established itself firmly in the same area apart from laurels vine weevils attack bay viburnum ornamental ivy and grape vines an early sign of trouble is that notches appear in leaves the soil dwelling larvae bite the roots off below the surface one possible explanation for the invaders successful colonisation of britain is global warming earlier springs and milder winters are already a fact yahoo groups sponsor sell a home with ease URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
nobel honors NUMBER for astrophysics work tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm stockholm sweden ap two americans and a japanese won the nobel prize in physics tuesday for using some of the most obscure particles and waves in nature to understand the workings of astronomy s grandest wonders riccardo giacconi NUMBER of the associated universities inc in washington d c will get half of the NUMBER million prize for his role in pioneering contributions to astrophysics which have led to the discovery of cosmic x ray sources raymond davis jr NUMBER of the university of pennsylvania shares the other half of the prize with japanese scientist masatoshi koshiba NUMBER of the university of tokyo the two men pioneered the construction of giant underground chambers to detect neutrinos elusive particles that stream from the sun by the billion neutrinos offer an unparalleled view of the sun s inner workings because they are produced in its heart by the same process that causes it to shine in fact davis early experiments performed during the NUMBERs in a south dakota gold mine confirmed that the sun is powered by nuclear fusion koshiba won his share of the prize for his work at the kamiokande neutrino detector in japan that experiment confirmed and extended davis work and also discovered neutrinos coming from distant supernova explosions some of the brightest objects in the universe the italian born giacconi a u s citizen was awarded half of the prize for building the first x ray telescopes that provided completely new and sharp images of the universe the academy said his research laid the foundation for x ray astronomy which has led to the discovery of black holes and allowed researchers to peer deep into the hearts of the dusty young galaxies where stars are born when academy officials reached giacconi by phone at his home outside washington he said he was dumbstruck to learn of the prize koshiba also was phoned at home in tokyo but the academy was still trying to reach davis spokesman erling norrby said this year s nobel awards started monday with the naming of britons sydney brenner NUMBER and sir john e sulston NUMBER and american h robert horvitz NUMBER as winners of the medicine prize selected by a committee at the karolinska institute the researchers shared it for discoveries about how genes regulate organ growth and a process of programmed cell deaths that shed light on how viruses and bacteria invade human cells including in conditions such as aids strokes cancer and heart attacks the winner of the nobel prize in chemistry will be named on wednesday morning and the bank of sweden prize in economic sciences in memory of alfred nobel later the same day the literature prize winner will be announced on thursday the swedish academy said on tuesday the winner of the coveted peace prize the only one not awarded in sweden will be announced friday in oslo norway the award committees make their decisions in deep secrecy and candidates are not publicly revealed for NUMBER years alfred nobel the wealthy swedish industrialist and inventor of dynamite who endowed the prizes left only vague guidelines for the selection committees in his will he said the prize being revealed on tuesday should be given to those who shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind and shall have made the most important discovery or invention within the field of physics the royal swedish academy of sciences which also chooses the chemistry and economics winners invited nominations from previous recipients and experts in the fields before cutting down its choices deliberations are conducted in strict secrecy the prizes are presented on dec NUMBER the anniversary of nobel s death in NUMBER in stockholm and in oslo on the net nobel site URL yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL lioness adopts fifth antelope rory carroll africa correspondent tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER the guardian kamuniak the dysfunctional lioness has forfeited another meal by adopting her fifth baby oryx this year an aberration of nature which has baffled wildlife experts the young lioness in the samburu national park in northern kenay adopted her latest baby at the weekend a wildlife service warden said yesterday each time kamuniak whose name means the blessed one in the local samburu tongue has tried to protect the antelopes from other predators and allowed the natural mothers to feed them unfortunately for her one oryx ended up in the belly of a male lion while kamuniak slept the others were either rescued by wardens or retrieved by their natural mothers the wardens think the latest adoptee nicknamed naisimari taken by force was adopted at the weekend she must have adopted her on sunday because they are in harmony said gabriel lepariyo a warden naisimari s natural mother has been seen shadowing the odd couple at a distance theories to explain the phenonemon abound not having her own cubs kamuniak is lonely she is colour blind and short sighted and thinks the calves are cubs the oryx were too frail to flee breaking the classic prey behaviour and confusing the hunter kamuniak wants to be a vegetarian kamuniak wants to be loved yahoo groups sponsor sell a home with ease URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
ananova dracula theme park could be switched to bucharest a controversial scheme to build a dracula theme park in romania could be switched away from transylvania consultants pricewaterhousecoopers is now recommending that it be built in bucharest instead it comes after prince charles led international protests against the original proposals to build it in the medieval town of sigishoara pricewaterhousecoopers name bucharest originally believed to be an outsider in the race to host the park as the most profitable location for the project but that has angered residents in sigishoara where vlad the impaler the inspiration for dracula was born they are counting on the park to boost the local economy evenimentul zilei reports that sigishoara was placed behind the capital with the black sea port of constanta third choice dorin danesan mayor of sigishoara said the pre feasibility report from pwc shows that the park would attract more tourists if it was located in bucharest but i still think that sigishoara is the best location for it the park would include hotels a dracula roller coaster catacombs a ghost train and a house of horrors as well as vampire dungeons located around a reconstruction of dracula s castle and an artificial lake the project has also been objected to by the world heritage organisation unesco fearing sigishoara might be spoilt pricewaterhousecoopers is to present its final report on the project on october NUMBER story filed NUMBER NUMBER tuesday NUMBERth october NUMBER yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
ananova newspaper s readers complain over let s have sex picture caption readers of an african newspaper have complained after a picture caption about jewellery contained the words let s have sex the mix up highlights the problems caused by the wide range of languages spoken in namibia callers to the namibian were angered by the use of the word tulumweni which translates roughly as let s have intercourse in the oshiwambo language it was used in a caption concerning people in the caprivi who use rings from the femidon female condom as jewellery according to the the namibian an activist involved in care for aids hiv patients spelt the word tulumweni for the journalist he intended it to mean you will see for yourselves in the siyeyi tongue one caller said the complainants should be considerate of other people s languages it is very clear that the picture was taken in the caprivi and that the word is from siyeyi it is not oshiwambo others indicated that various words might have different meanings in various namibian languages such as omakende an oshiwambo word for glasses which in siyeyi means testicles another word with a double meaning is tulikunde which in oshiwambo translates as let s talk but which in sisubiya translates as let s have intercourse the herero word for a hat is ekoli which is an oshiwambo word for a vagina story filed NUMBER NUMBER tuesday NUMBERth october NUMBER yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
hubble spots an icy world far beyond pluto astronomers have discovered a distant body that appears to be the largest object in the kuiper belt a body half the size of pluto that raises new questions about the definition of a planet the icy world NUMBER lmNUMBER has been dubbed quaoar URL astronomers slice and dice galaxies new views of star birth and the heart of a spiral galaxy have been seen by a state of the art astronomical instrument on its first night the new spectrometer has a revolutionary ability to slice any object in the sky into sections producing a three dimensional view of the conditions throughout entire galaxies in a single observation URL yahoo groups sponsor sell a home with ease URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
actually i d be more inclined to look into URL avoiding giving any cash to a certain corporation g p original message i d normally never buy this but the xbox is eurNUMBER on iol s shop a very large company are making a loss on it and URL NUMBERa NUMBERxbox NUMBERlinux NUMBERmandrake NUMBER NUMBERreleased mandrake has been released for it isn t it NUMBER in smyths don t forget to add to that the modchip and the time to put it on me thinks unless you want NUMBERd graphics URL is the way to go irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
rohit khare wrote why am i so passionate about decentralization because i believe some of today s most profound problems with networked applications are caused by centralization generically a centralized political or economic system permits only one answer to a question while decentralization permits many separate agents to hold different opinions of the same matter in the specific context of software centralized variables can only contain one valid value at a time that limits us to only representing information a according to the beliefs of a single agency and b that changes more slowly than it takes to propagate nevertheless centralization is the basis for today s most popular architectural style for developing network applications client server interaction using request response communication protocols i think the ability to maintain an inconsistent database is key to decentralization databases enforce consistenty with every transaction bounded transactions like an atm enforce consistency by have some play with time and value most people keep inconsistent data in their heads it s called congnitive dissonance theory most businesses keep inconsistent data documents tationale and ideas to support their work activities it s called real life i don t think it matters so much where it s located i e decentralization i think that decentralization is the workaround from technical limitations the fallout being that the only way inconsistent information spaces can be maintained is by protecting them through a set of trust barriers and boundaries the local information when combined with the technical troubles of providing just enough forced synchronization to remote information provide workable data consistenty i e enforcing local constraints or ignoring global ones when concerns are more immedidate tolerating temporary irreconcilable deviations is how people cope otherwise you d be like nick gatsby unnecessarily pre occupied with a spot of shaving cream on mckee s neck who thinks that if he can just wipe that spot off that the whole world would be a little more perfect and everything including his pre occupation with daisy would consistently be in its proper place greg ,0
 original message subject please give generously please give generously urgent dudley earthquake appeal at NUMBER NUMBER on monday NUMBER september an earthquake measuring NUMBER NUMBER on the richter scale hit dudley uk causing untold disruption and distress many were woken well before their giro arrived several priceless collections of mementos from the balearics and spanish costas were damaged three areas of historic and scientifically significant litter were disturbed thousands are confused and bewildered trying to come to terms with the fact that something interesting has happened in dudley one resident donna marie dutton a NUMBER year old mother of three said it was such a shock little chantal leanne came running into my bedroom crying my youngest two tyler morgan and megan storm slept through it i was still shaking when i was watching trisha the next morning apparently though looting did carry on as normal the british red cross have so far managed to ship NUMBER crates of sunny delight to the area to help the stricken masses rescue workers are still searching through the rubble and have found large quantities of personal belongings including benefit books and jewellery from elizabeth duke at argos how you can help NUMBER buys chips scraps and blue pop for a family of four NUMBER can take a family to stourport for the day where children can play on an unspoiled canal bank among the national collection of stinging nettles NUMBERp buys a biro for filling in a spurious compensation claim please act now simply email us by return with your credit card details and we ll do the rest if you prefer to donate cash there are collection points available at your local branches of argos iceland and clinton cards _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL yahoo groups sponsor home selling try us URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
to view this newsletter in full color URL media unspun what the press is reporting and why www mediaunspun com october NUMBER NUMBER in this issue bush covers the waterfront the biggest cable hookup editor s note is media unspun useful to you then pass it on to a colleague the more readers we have the more successful we ll be the more successful we are the more useful we can be to you pass it on media unspun serves business news and analysis authoritatively and irreverently every business day an annual subscription costs NUMBER less than a dollar a week if your four week free trial is coming to an end soon please visit URL and sign up via credit card or check advertisement pop tech NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER camden maine join NUMBER big thinkers to discuss the collision of technology and culture register now at URL bush covers the waterfront it may seem like all iraq all the time in the oval office but the president has at least one other thing on his mind this week that pesky port lockout the freight still isn t moving factories are running out of parts produce is rotting and retailers are more freaked about christmas with every passing day on monday bush stepped in and appointed a three member panel to see how badly this shutdown is hosing the economy we hope this isn t a difficult question as the panel s been given all of one day to report back when bush gets the report on tuesday the next step might be a court order to reopen the ports under the NUMBER taft hartley act that would send employees back to work for NUMBER days while federal mediators duke it out over the disputed contract and retailers lower their xanax dosages invoking taft hartley requires a threat to national health or safety not the economy but labor secretary elaine chao covered that base in a statement on monday saying the work stoppage threatens the flow of supplies to the military we knew iraq would be in here somewhere union officials quickly responded that their members have been unloading military cargo throughout the NUMBER day shutdown said the l a times but an anonymous bush administration official said that only a portion of what the defense department needs has made it ashore politically this has been a tricky one using taft hartley would annoy labor right before congressional elections on the other hand voter discontent with bush s handling of the increasingly fragile economic recovery has begun showing up in polls and such concerns may have outweighed the political danger to the republican administration said the san francisco chronicle also bush stepped in on the same day that a poll reported two thirds of americans wanted him to focus more on the economy though the administration promised an unbiased examination of the lockout bush appeared to have made up his mind that it was hurting national security and the economy andmerited federal intervention said the ap as for taft hartley it s not exactly famous for solving labor disputes often the NUMBER day cooling off period ends and workers simply walk out again or get locked out again in this case one gets the sense however that fixing the dockworkers contract isn t the point of this particular NUMBER days it s NUMBER days until christmas the race is on jen muehlbauer president acts to halt port lockout for NUMBER days seattle times URL bush expected to act on ports crisis URL president moves toward forcing the reopening of west coast ports URL bush takes step toward halting lockout after west coast port talks break off ap URL white house intervenes on docks dispute financial times URL cooling off period likely in port fight sf chronicle URL bush moves toward halting port shutdown URL trouble on the docks URL paid subscription required charges of politics have dogged taft hartley act URL taft hartley act no quick fix for port dispute reuters URL advertisement special offer save NUMBER on a subscription to mit technology review get an inside view into the technologies deals and companies emerging from one of the leading research institutes mit URL the biggest cable hookup wo birds want to join forces and the fcc is about to cry fowl we mean foul the two dominant direct broadcast satellite players want to join forces the better to compete with big cable federal regulators both the fcc and the justice department are concerned that the resulting conglomerate of directv with dish network would command roughly NUMBER of satellite service in the us the press could not settle on a price tag for the proposed merger between echostar communications and hughes electronics it was described as being worth anywhere from NUMBER billion and NUMBER billion it was a challenge to keep the players straight as some outlets talked of a merger between the corporate parents and others referred to the service monikers hughes is directv and echostar is dish all straight the two companies sent a letter to the fcc urging them to hold off ruling on read rejecting the merger until the justice department has spoken echostar and hughes offered unspecified major revisions to the deal that they want to discuss with justice in the next weeks the wall street journal delved deeply into the form those revisions could take specifically selling some frequencies to cablevision the journal reported that cablevision has wanted to get into the satellite business for NUMBER years and outlined the cable company s plans and past spending on such a project URL turned in an extensive analysis of the deal for investors in the satellite space it seems the market for expanded service television may be nearing saturation URL quoted an analyst s report which concluded consumers should benefit from continued rivalry but shareholders may realize much smaller returns the new york times and the journal both mentioned rupert murdoch waiting in the wings last year murdoch s news corp bid for directv but lost out at the last minute to echostar if the current deal falls through he ll be back keith dawson echostar and hughes propose concessions in bid to save deal URL paid subscription required regulators set to block echostar s hughes purchase URL paid subscription required last ditch effort rocky mountain news URL echostar hughes see a glimmer of hope URL f c c asked to put off merger ruling URL echostar hughes ask fcc to defer decision URL echostar hughes offer merger changes reuters URL delay in satellite tv merger ok requested ap URL echostar hughes seek to delay ruling URL echostar pleads to fcc on merger denver post URL other stories sec probes aol oxygen pact for double booking of revenue URL paid subscription required tivo raises NUMBER million in stock offering ap URL worldcom officer pleads guilty to fraud URL two magazines are shut and a third revamps URL regulators say they have csfb smoking gun URL expected cold winter could increase natural gas prices URL frozen world found beyond pluto URL fool me once URL new northwest system for internet bookings URL the fastest growing tech companies URL debating the baby bells URL paid subscription required silicon valley is yearning for user friendly microsoft URL paid subscription required do you want to reach the net s savviest audience advertise in media unspun contact erik vanderkolk for details at erikvanderkolk URL today staff written by deborah asbrand dasbrand world std com keith dawson dawson world std com jen muehlbauer jen englishmajor com and lori patel loripatel hotmail com copyedited by jim duffy jimduffyNUMBER URL advertising erik vanderkolk erikvanderkolk URL editor and publisher jimmy guterman guterman vineyard com media unspun is produced by the vineyard group inc copyright NUMBER media unspun inc and the vineyard group inc subscribe already willya URL redistribution by email is permitted as long as a link to URL is included ________________ powered by URL to be removed from this list use this link URL to receive future messages in html format use this link URL to change your subscriber 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from steve speer subject URL not sure what the rules for crossposting between the two groups is my reasoning is that it s a major newspaper reporting evidence of alien life so t URL an open loop shows every saturday URL submit to the calendar yahoo groups sponsor sell a home with ease URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 i seem to be having a little trouble with it my printers conf is defaultprinter lp info hpNUMBER location locals deviceuri ipp NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER state idle accepting yes jobsheets none none quotaperiod NUMBER pagelimit NUMBER klimit NUMBER printer and cupds uses that to make a printcap of lp sounds dodgy to me if someone has an example printers conf printcap for a jetdirect printer i d appreciate it if they sent it on john irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER john moylan wrote hmm speaking of cheap machines etc has anyone tried this sort of thing URL or more importantly has anyone had any positive negative experiences with the via mini itx boards via cNUMBER processors i recall a thread last year about building a custom mpNUMBER cd game vcd recorder machine these systems seem to hit the mark also i need to build a new box and i was thinking about something that would be as unobtrusive as possible in my living room john the forums there are very informative and there is also more info on using linux on the mini itx boards at URL a couple of the autopc projects make interesting reading in this regard URL but most of them seem to use windows for some unknown reason hth phil irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER micgranger URL wrote concerning this mail what is your intention when posting to this list excerpts from books i ve just read i usually refrain from adding any comments letting the listmembers interpret them as they see fit but since you asked i chose to post this text simply because i thought it was a particularly risible example of doyle s invincible faith and his refusal to accept the fucking obvious bc yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
david asked my wife noticed something odd the nearly full moon was about NUMBER degrees above the horizon there was a notable glow on the horizon except under the moon the moon seemed to be in a column of darkness that was about three times the apparent width of the moon we could see the column over its entire length as a strip of sky darker than the sky around it any of you ever see this do you have any idea what could have caused it i suspect it s due to some pecularity of the visual system but have no clear idea i m surprised to not find this phenomenon in corlis i could have sworn i saw it there he does have the somewhat similar dark sky between a rainbow and a secondary bow i personally have seen a rainbow enclosing a semi circle of darker sky i know i ve read about pillars under the sun and moon elsewhere but i can t recall if they were reportedly dark or bright i do know these sorts of things are supposed to be quirks of optics not of the visual system i m sorry i haven t got any answers but a search through some books on atmospheric optics ought to turn a few hints up bill william jacobs freelance unemployed person yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 peter fwded finally constable evans hurled a thong at the animal hitting it on the head i know this isn t quite as funny to australians as it is to everyone else honestly rachel not that walloping it with a flip flop isn t hilarious too well unless you used the thong like a sling shot fel URL weird page URL non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 david asked my wife noticed something odd the nearly full moon was about NUMBER degrees above the horizon there was a notable glow on the horizon except under the moon the moon seemed to be in a column of darkness that was about three times the apparent width of the moon we could see the column over its entire length as a strip of sky darker than the sky around it any of you ever see this do you have any idea what could have caused it i suspect it s due to some pecularity of the visual system but have no clear idea bill jacobs i m surprised to not find this phenomenon in corlis i could have sworn i saw it there he does have the somewhat similar dark sky between a rainbow and a secondary bow i personally have seen a rainbow enclosing a semi circle of darker sky i know i ve read about pillars under the sun and moon elsewhere but i can t recall if they were reportedly dark or bright i do know these sorts of things are supposed to be quirks of optics not of the visual system i m sorry i haven t got any answers but a search through some books on atmospheric optics ought to turn a few hints up some links comprehensive URL atmospheric light phenomena URL interesting observational stuff from the prior millenium including pix click NUMBER colour plates URL more pix many of which flip to negative to highlight details hover cursor URL and subsequent links john k yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 an illusionist has emerged after NUMBER hours underwater in a case in new york s times square i d just like to recommend the newest viz to ukers just for the hilarious david blaine stalag magician the ego d one is in a wwii prison camp and sort of trying to escape several times he seems to have escaped and the british officers celebrate before it s revealed he s been buried alive or hiding in a freezer at one point he s asked why and says well it s not for publicity cracking stuff stew stewart smith scottish microelectronics centre university of edinburgh URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 so now osama bin laden is hitler and saddam hussein is hitler and george bush is fighting the nazis someone should shout godwin at him at a press conference then he d have to shut up or does that only work on usenet stew stewart smith scottish microelectronics centre university of edinburgh URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER est jay lake jlake jlake com wrote snip second one could make the assumption that ancient or future civilizations would not be hydrocarbon based there are alternative fuel sources including seabed methane biomass and all the usual suspects solar hydro etc some of these could be exploited on a decidedly low tech ie emergent civilization basis however it is difficult to conceive of an industrial civilization that doesn t employ wheels axles and bearings all of which require lubrication i m not an engineer robin anyone but it s my understanding that vegetable lubrication breaks down under stress and that oil or graphite lubricants are the only reasonable choices for high temperature high rotation applications at least prior to extremely advanced modes of chemical synthesis this is a good point there are a lot of alternatives to hydrocarbon products derived from petroleum but these have often been developed as a replacement for petroleum after the technology has been established there is a growing industry in plant derived plastics and lubricants but this is to replicate materials that have been previously created much more easily within the petrochemical industry vegetable derived lubricants have been used the russians used sunflower oil in the lubrication systems of tanks and trucks during the second world war and work is being done in the uk to produce diesel fuel derived from waste cooking oil from fast food restaurants jay s correct in his opinion that vegetable oil is not as durable as petroleum oil but this is only because of the lack of sophistication of the chemistry involved synthetic fuels and lubricants are continuously being developed and i don t see any problems with synthetics ultimately matching the performance of the more conventional products as the rock oil runs out plant oil derivatives will be developed to fill the gap in parallel changes will occur in the designs of the machines to cope with any changes in performance of the lubricants my big concern is if the technology were ever to be lost for some reason re creating a petrochemical industry from scratch without petrochemicals that is going immediately to plant based synthetics would be extremely difficult especially if it were necessary to recreate all of the petrochemical derived products not just lubricants and fuels i suspect that bearing in mind the ingenuity of the human race it would happen just at a different pace imagine an industrial revollution based on for example methane from pig manure or diesel oil from sunflowers all we would then have to do is get used to all the machines smelling like pig farms and fish and chip shops robin hill steamy bess brough east yorkshire this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged if you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender you should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL tuesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt NUMBER NUMBER uk cambodia temple ruins yield treasure workers clearing dense jungle near the ruins of an ancient pagoda in northern cambodia have unearthed NUMBER buddha statues NUMBER of them solid gold the statues which are NUMBER centimetres NUMBER inches tall are in good condition and believed to be hundreds of years old they were found on saturday as workers were rebuilding the po pich temple about NUMBER km NUMBERmiles north of the capital phnom penh the pagoda in the batay district of kampong thom province was torn down during the reign of the khmer rouge in the NUMBERs and the area became overgrown community care deputy police chief of kampong thom province hang sithim said the statues three of which were silver and one bronze were buried in about one metre NUMBER NUMBERft of earth and each weigh around NUMBER grams NUMBERlb i think that these buddha statues had been buried hundreds of years ago when the last temple was fully operating mr hang sithim said provincial authorities initially planned to take the statues to a nearby town for safekeeping but opted to allow the buddhist community at the temple to take care of them we believe they are safe there said som somphat deputy governor of kampong thom province the people of po pich pledged to treat them with respect and honour reign of terror a police guard has been placed around the site to protect it from looters the khmer rouge waged civil war in cambodia between NUMBER and NUMBER and controlled the country between NUMBER and NUMBER the regime outlawed religion and destroyed many objects regarded as decadent or culturally impure about two million people died in the khmer rouge s drive to turn cambodia into a farmers utopia yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL britons stand tall if slightly heavy in europe john carvel social affairs editor wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER the guardian not every european dimension has been harmonised in brussels yet according to the department for trade and industry the average briton stands head shoulders girth and bottoms above their continental partners the figures come in a new edition of the department s handbook of anthropometric and strength measurements compiled by ergonomists at the university of nottingham to help manufacturers design products to fit people s shape the volume provides NUMBER measurements ranging from the distance between the inner corners of the eyes to the length of the leg between the crease below the buttock to the crease at the back of the knee it has discovered that the average british man is NUMBER millimetres NUMBER inches taller than his french counterpart the mean height of uk citizens is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERmm NUMBERft NUMBERin among european men only the dutch are taller averaging NUMBER NUMBERmm and with a clear height advantage over the us men s average of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the average british woman is NUMBER NUMBERmm tall just under NUMBERft NUMBERin compared with NUMBER NUMBERmm for her french counterpart NUMBER NUMBERmm for the italians and NUMBER NUMBERmm for the germans swedish women average NUMBER NUMBERmm dutch NUMBER NUMBERmm and americans NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERmm more disturbingly british men and women are heavier than all the other nationalities except the americans averaging NUMBER NUMBER kilos for british men and NUMBER NUMBER for women the average british woman has a chest measurement of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERmm NUMBER NUMBER inches compared with NUMBERmm for the italians NUMBER NUMBERmm for the japanese and NUMBERmm for sri lankans american women also top this scale with an average of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERmm the average british woman s waist is NUMBER NUMBERmm NUMBER inches also second largest behind the americans but her bottom at NUMBER NUMBERmm is considerably smaller than the italians at NUMBERmm who beat the americans into second place the average british male foot is NUMBER NUMBERmm long NUMBER NUMBER inches NUMBERmm longer than the french and germans NUMBERmm more than the italians and NUMBERmm more than the swedes but they are just beaten by the americans at NUMBER NUMBERmm and massively outstripped by the dutch at NUMBERmm however dutch women have daintier feet than the british averaging NUMBERmm compared with NUMBER NUMBERmm in the uk NUMBER NUMBER inches german women average NUMBERmm compared with NUMBERmm for the swedes and NUMBER NUMBERmm for the americans the dti has a less than exhaustive record of ring finger lengths but on the available evidence the british man s finger at NUMBER NUMBERmm NUMBER NUMBER inches is NUMBER NUMBERmm longer than his german counterpart but NUMBER NUMBERmm shorter than the american average the british woman s ring finger at NUMBER NUMBERmm is NUMBER NUMBERmm smaller than her german counterpart and NUMBER NUMBERmm smaller than the american beverley norris research fellow at nottingham university s institute for occupational ergonomics said the figures were useful for product designers the department has recently completed a study of the pulling force needed to open ring pull cans yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the electronic telegraph emigrate to russia that s a steppe too far filed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so you think you ve got it bad fed up with folkestone bored with birmingham or sick of sheffield those NUMBER per cent of britons according to a daily telegraph yougov survey this week who dream of a stress free life in sunnier climes should perhaps heed a word of friendly advice on the realities of living abroad kommersant a russian daily newspaper yesterday offered those dissatisfied with life in blair s britain a taste of what to expect should they choose to emigrate to provincial russia after reading about the gripes of affluent britons its tongue in cheek article admitted however that the grass was not always greener on the other side the inhabitants of foggy albion keen to travel could go to any russian city deep in the provinces where things are quiet said kommersant in any central russian district life by british standards is unseemingly cheap and remarkably laid back by NUMBERam most of the working population are becoming traditionally relaxed the time for elevenses in britain perhaps the opportunity for a quiet cup of tea and a chocolate hobnob is known in russia as the wolf hour it was so named in soviet times because at NUMBERam a wolf appeared from the famous animal clock at the obrasov puppet theatre in moscow it is also opening time in the nation s vodka shops and the vodka like all other spirits is cheap kommersant pointed out that the money a briton can earn from selling even the most shabby house would be enough to support them at the local standard of living for the rest of their life the local shops are full of all they would need and they could buy a bottle of whisky for kopecks there are NUMBER kopecks in a ruble and the ruble is currently worth about a halfpenny in sterling the whisky is cheap however because it is unlike anything the average briton will have consumed before it is made of samagon home distilled moonshine vodka coloured with tea and is a popular beverage in rural areas and among diehard alcoholics while alcohol is plentiful and cheap food may not be so easy to come by the newspaper pointed out that traditional british foodstuffs it selected oxtail soup as an example were in short supply however the wealth of the british settler should overcome the difficulty for a modest reward in most russian villages the locals would happily cut off the tails from the entire collective farm s herd of cattle one or two potential emigrés might be deterred by language difficulties there are few english speakers to be found among the green hills of tula on the mongolian border however kommersant pointed out language difficulties were not considered a deterrent by the NUMBER per cent of britons who nominated france as the country in which they would like to live france the russian paper claimed was a country where english is only known by the beggars belorussian prostitutes and russian tourists despite the low cost of living and the easy going lifestyle the russian weather remains a major stumbling block for britons even in the most temperate regions winter temperatures of NUMBERc are common and somewhere like the sakha republic east of siberia and the coldest place in the world enjoys just one month of summer and endures winter temperatures that drop below NUMBERc houses are built on concrete stilts because the permafrost makes digging foundations impossible again the russian paper had a word of reassurance while acknowledging the climatic problems it said that thanks to global warming this difficulty will solve itself kommersant also had an answer to the labour crisis that would be created in britain if NUMBER per cent of its citizens decided to opt for a life in russia thirty three million russians could be sent to britain to replace the NUMBER million who leave we think that the required number could probably be found amongst our citizens unfortunately for those NUMBER million russians however not one of those britons surveyed who wanted to move abroad nominated the russian steppes as their preferred new home yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the electronic telegraph six arrested for attacking palio jockey who defected by bruce johnston in rome filed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER police waded into the intrigues and enmities surrounding the palio siena s traditional bareback horse race for the first time yesterday arresting six people for beating up a star jockey who defected to a rival team angry spectators attack giuseppe pes at the palio horse race in siena giuseppe pes a champion jockey of sardinian extraction who has won the palio nine times in NUMBER runs was closely associated with the istrice or porcupine contrada section of town until the race earlier this month istrice did not have a horse in the contest only NUMBER of the NUMBER contradas take part in each palio but despite promises to the contrary moments before the off mr pes mounted the horse of lupa or she wolf lupa are istrice s historic rivals and the defection was not taken well lupa did not win victory going instead to tartuca tortoise as its supporters erupted into joyous celebrations mr pes was pulled from his mount by istrice members and savagely beaten and kicked for seven minutes mr pes NUMBER whose jacket with his contrada s colours was torn from his back was sent to hospital with fractures cuts and bruises three of his attendants who tried to intervene were also beaten police yesterday arrested six people they said had been identified as the attackers from video footage experts said it was the first time that members of a contrada known as contradaioli had been arrested for beating up a jockey despite the fact that such episodes belong to the race s ancient traditions the palio which was first raced in the NUMBERth century is held twice a year on the cobbles of siena s main square for weeks beforehand supporters parade through the city singing waving flags and wearing their contrada colours but by the day of the race the good humour evaporates the event has no rules and is prepared for and run amid an extraordinary undercurrent of intrigue and even violence jockeys may swap sides at the last minute take bribes and whip rivals horses and more so long as they do not grab their reins the origins of the contrada lie in the middle ages when the neighbourhoods boundaries were set out to aid the many mercenary companies hired to defend siena s fiercely earned independence from florence and other city states the first palio of the year takes place on july NUMBER to commemorate the miracles of the madonna of provenzano and a second race on aug NUMBER marks the feast of the assumption of the virgin yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL hamza s horrid but we must tolerate him rod liddle wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER the guardian sheikh abu hamza al masri our maddest of mad mullahs and a cartoon bogeyman to scare the kiddies spent a quiet and contemplative bank holiday playing with his own children in victoria park hackney i ve often wondered what incendiary islamic fundamentalist clerics do on statutory public holidays head for the beach and maybe swing by b q on the way home i had hoped i had this beguiling vision of hamza paddling in the sea an ice cream cone in his one good hand the waves tickling his shins and the sheikh mentally preparing to fix those pesky shelves in the kitchen for once instead of planning the extermination of zionism and america and maybe me and you too but b q and a day at the seaside is probably beyond hamza s budget since the bank of england froze his assets so victoria park had to do but he sounded happy enough when i spoke to him with the babble of tiny cheerful islamic proto warriors in the background you must know hamza he s the imam designed it would seem by the daily mail s cartoonist mac large metal hook in place of a left hand one eye covered by a patch the other a baleful watchful milky white we don t mock the disabled any more these days unless it s someone like hamza whom we don t like then if you ll excuse the inapt phraseology the gloves come off so hamza is known with that vaulting imagination typical of the british right as captain hook in articles which usually call for his arrest or extradition to the us or deportation back home to egypt or maybe off to pakistan or afghanistan where he fought the russians for years and thus sustained his disabilities anywhere really just out of here and if we can t lock him up or chuck him out of the country maybe we can force him to shut up because we don t like hamza very much we weren t that fond of him before september NUMBER but afterwards in that nervy paranoid few months when we all thought the sky might fall in our disapprobation turned into political persecution and now the daily mirror is agitating again for his arrest because they ve got hold of secret videos of the man behaving in an even more inflammatory manner urging warfare on and looting of enemies of islam all out of context and a very long time ago says the imam not unduly bothered but perhaps he should be because our reputation for broad mindedness and tolerance towards people like hamza was thinning even before the mirror s scoop hamza preaches or preached at the scary finsbury park mosque so earlier this year the charity commissioners banned him from doing so because of his allegedly inflammatory remarks i didn t know charity commissioners were meant to do stuff like that he has had his passport seized and not returned his assets have been frozen he is tailed by the police every now and then and his access to the media is restricted by internal policing within broadcasting corporations and the press and this last point is because we tell ourselves endlessly repeating the mantra over and over again and fervently wishing it to be true hamza is not representative of british muslims as if british muslims were a simple homogenous thing with a single voice that one could turn to every now and then for explanation and perhaps succour the trouble is in the first month or so after the twin towers attack he was revealed to be rather more representative than the list of those government approved muslim spokesmen who were uncomfortably i suspect dragooned briefly into statements of support for the war against terrorism and a blanket condemnation of the taliban an opinion poll commissioned by radio NUMBER s today programme revealed that an overwhelming majority of british muslims were against george bush s crusade one in six were to put it mildly ambivalent about the attack on the us the remainder condemned the attack unequivocally a large majority thought the war against terrorism was a war against islam which is what hamza said repeatedly but it was something that at the time we didn t want to hear now if you quiz the man on present policy at home and abroad he comes across superficially at least as someone from the liberal left no war against iraq britain to become independent of us foreign policy and attempt rapprochement with arab states stronger action against israel mistrust of global capitalism redistribution of wealth nor is he particularly anti semitic so far as i can tell although i don t suppose he will be holidaying in eilat this year in yesterday s guardian the chief rabbi expressed a willingness to talk to hamza and was grateful for the sheikh s message of condolence when a london synagogue was attacked which is not to say that hamza is a peaceable jeffersonian democrat who has been wilfully misrepresented he is without question rather more inflammatory in private sermons to his own people than he is in public his ideology is an arid and uncompromising interpretation of islam he would be happy in a truly islamic society to stone women to death for adultery for example you and i would find many perhaps most of his views utterly repellent and that s the point because hamza is the true test of our apparent desire to be multicultural multiculturalism is not surely the cheerful appropriation of bits of inoffensive minority cultural behaviour by the ruling hegemony that is a sort of syncopated monoculturalism multiculturalism is rather the ability of society to tolerate views that are antithetical to the dominant culture and maybe learn from them the fbi has been investigating hamza but of course has found nothing remotely incriminating the real reason for his vilification and persecution is simply the pungency of his views it is often said that we should shut him up or arrest him because his rhetoric increases hostility against the muslim population generally this is a perfectly noble argument but it does not wash you don t defuse a difficult situation by pretending it doesn t exist and if british muslims maybe a minority maybe not feel a growing sense of unease or mystification at the direction of western foreign policy it is not because they have been led in that direction by hamza shutting the man up therefore won t make a difference it is rather as louis macneice had it the glass is falling hour by hour the glass will fall for ever but if you break the bloody glass you won t hold up the weather yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL pro hunt activists target top sight one of yorkshire s most famous sights yesterday became one of the first targets in bizarre attacks on white horse landmarks linked to the hunting debate villagers near thirsk could not believe their eyes when they woke yesterday to find the famous white horse of kilburn had acquired a rider during the night in another incident the uffington white horse in oxfordshire had a huntsman and three hounds added to the ancient figure which is thought to represent a celtic god or tribal symbol pro hunt activists in the real countryside alliance rca a radical alternative to the better known countryside alliance admitted responsibility last night for targeting the two images the NUMBERft by NUMBERft landmark at kilburn has been lovingly preserved since it was carved in the limestone by schoolmaster john hodgson and his pupils in NUMBER but during monday night someone nailed on a massive figure of a huntsman with a horn which had been cut to scale out of a single piece of white carpet it was removed yesterday by members of kilburn white horse association who found a countryside alliance badge attached to the carpet john roberts of the association said it has obviously been very well organised it was a well crafted piece of kit a figure of a huntsman with a horn cut out of carpets it was big and impressive and could be seen for miles about they tied it to bushes at the top and nailed it down it caused all the stone chippings to be pushed downwards which will help turn the white horse grey it will not get another refit for another year whoever did it must have come with a vehicle a tractor and trailer or a lorry because the carpet must have come in one piece it was extremely well planned and took several people an hour and a half to get it off the sculpture needs constant work because unlike chalk horses in the south of england it is cut into limestone which is the wrong colour and needs whitening mr roberts added the damage as such is not great but it adds to the deterioration which means it will need more work next time we would have more sympathy if having made the point they would come to take it away again because it was a major job andy wilson chief executive of the north york moors national park said it is a scheduled ancient monument and the local residents are very proud of it and go to enormous trouble to keep it white there is also careful consideration of what shape it should be kept with the constant growth of vegetation so you can understand the alarm and regret at any changes there has not been a cut in the turf which would be much more of a problem it would seem it was carefully plotted beforehand an rca spokesman said some people in the country are getting very frustrated at the inaction all we want is ministers to take notice marches don t seem to be doing anything good the countryside alliance said it did not have any part in the action spokesman adrian yelland said the countryside alliance only ever advocates campaigning that is lawful and dissociates itself from acts of vandalism and regrets any damage that may have been caused by this incident the incident follows graffiti on road signs and motorway bridges in yorkshire thought to be rca work yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 from todays sun URL your vote on crop idol by oliver harvey welcome to crop idol your chance to choose britain s most out of this wor ld corn circle the intricate patterns which some say are the work of aliens are big news again thanks to the spooky new mel gibson film signs nine of the best are shown on the right you can vote for your favourite by clicking on the image and dialling the number shown beneath calls cost only NUMBERp or NUMBER cents from the republic of ireland though it ma y be a bit more if you contact us from other planets lines close at NUMBERpm today we will reveal the winner tomorrow aliens or hoaxers the debate continues to rage over the origin of crop circles many believe they are simply the work of human hoaxers while others are c onvinced they are made by aliens trying to communicate with us crop circle enthusiasts insist that some of the designs appear so quickly a nd on such a vast scale that it is impossible for humans to have made them witnesses even claim to have seen balls of light moving through the fields on the nights that circles appear researchers have found connections between some patterns and symbols from a ncient religions mathematics and even music crop circles were first spotted in britain in the early NUMBERs and now appea r throughout the world the weird outlines are still most common in the sout h of england theories about their cause include whirlwinds known to circle experts as plasma vortexes earth energies from ley lines or even forces from the huma n mind in the past the circles have also been blamed on mating roe deer hedgehogs helicopters and holes in the ozone layer raymond cox chairman of the centre for crop circle studies said last nigh t it s a great unsolved mystery we know not all crop circles are created by humans but we cannot say for s ure what is making them plus lots of photos yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 sheikh abu hamza al masri our maddest of mad mullahs and a cartoon bogeyman to scare the kiddies spent a quiet and contemplative bank holiday playing with his own children in victoria park hackney for an alternative and rather more factually based rundown on hamza s career including his belief that all non muslims in yemen should be murdered outright URL martin yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the times august NUMBER NUMBER it s august and big cats are on the prowl by alan hamilton round up the sheep pull on the gauntlets oil the shotgun the british countryside is crawling with pumas black panthers fen tigers and other big vicious cats no corner of the nation is safe evidence released yesterday including sightings photographs paw prints livestock kills and hair samples claims to prove that every county has big cats lurking in its undergrowth poised to pounce on man and beast alike sightings have reached record levels in NUMBER according to daniel bamping founder of the british big cats society which in the past NUMBER months has received more than NUMBER reports of big cat sightings during the first six months we have seen an incredible amount of big cat activity we have now had reports in every single county the response from the public has been fantastic mr bamping said big cats in britain are real they are out there they are breeding there s more of them scotland and gloucestershire are said to be hotspots of big cat activity mark fraser who heads the society s scottish arm said lynx are now present in the scottish countryside i believe they are established and breeding i don t want to hazard a guess at the numbers suffice it to say there are several hotspots notably fife aberdeenshire inverness and the borders next month the society plans to unveil its full dossier of evidence which includes two dead wild cats pictures of paw prints and tree scratchings as well as stories of a horse strangely lacerated in west wales and a man in gravesham kent who had to beat a hasty retreat to his garage after his hand was cut by a creature the size of a labrador dog except that it had black hairy tufts on the tips of its ears the society is taking the sightings seriously it plans to set up a network of trigger cameras throughout the country to capture further evidence of the beasts which it will then present to the government it is not however clear on what it wants the government to do about it all throwing its weight behind the pro hunting lobby might be a start next in august record abductions by aliens yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the hunting community showing yet again how utterly out of touch they are though the anti esso sign on the long man made me smirk last week from carol the white horses at uffington and kilburn have had hunters painted onto them to keep the pro hunt image in the media URL boggle how can the pro hunt people think this will help their cause carol giant horse images defaced by hunting activists pro hunt activists have defaced two of the country s national monuments the two giant white horses to highlight their cause campaigners for the real countryside alliance say they targeted the two images on hills in oxfordshire and north yorkshire to keep the pro hunt thing in the papers ananova giant horse images defaced by hunting activists pro hunt activists have defaced two of the country s national monuments the two giant white horses to highlight their cause campaigners for the real countryside alliance say they targeted the two images on hills in oxfordshire and north yorkshire to keep the pro hunt thing in the papers aerial shots show the NUMBERft long bronze age image on the berkshire downs near uffington in oxfordshire complete with three white hounds and a rider in north yorkshire a rider in full hunt regalia has been added to the NUMBERft white horse cut in to the hills at kilburn which dates back to the NUMBERs but no one reported anything to the police a spokesman for north yorkshire police said no reports had been received but he had seen a red blob on the horse and had sent officers to investigate in uffington no one in the village had heard anything about the reported incident a spokesman for thames valley police said he was not aware of any complaints activists say the image in oxfordshire was drawn in paint used for marking lines on grass tennis courts and will wash away in the first rains story filed NUMBER NUMBER tuesday NUMBERth august NUMBER scott i cried for madder music and for stronger wine ernest dowson _________________________________________________________________ msn photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 just as the pyramids of egypt were built in honour of great kings it was fitting that sandy replicas were created on weymouth beach in memory of the king of the castle fred darrington who became the world s most famous sand sculptor died last week aged NUMBER his grandson mark anderson who has taken over his dorset seafront pitch is determined that his grandfather s name will not be forgotten despite the impermanence of his creations can someone please tell me what a pitch constitutes i have an idea it is somewhat like the spots street musicians claim but this sounds more formal just an area of the beach by the prom where he s allowed to make his sculptures weymouth is where i spent my teenage years my mum and one sister still live there so i m pretty familiar with the sculptures pretty impressive and very big i think he uses some sort of armature for some bits it s not just sand they usually get vandalised though after a lot of drinks it obviously is a good idea to break into the enclosure and kick all the sculptures to bits then again weymouth is pretty run down and attracts holiday makers of the worst sort yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER the voices made robin lynn frank write tony svanstrom on spamassassin talk noted this us patent URL tml pto search adv html r NUMBER f g l NUMBER d pgNUMBER sNUMBER spam p NUMBER os haiku rs spam i took a bit of time to review what is on the above url if i were a news editor the headline would be inventor from country that ignores patents and copyrights seeks patent for inventing the wheel the wheel is already patented in australia melbourne man patents the wheel url http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER search q URL the sad news is that there seems to be a lot of patents pending or not that s for very basic general ideas it s the current form of domainnapping and it might turn uggly when people start trying to enfoce these patents tony per scientiam ad libertatem through knowledge towards freedom genom kunskap mot frihet c NUMBER NUMBER tony URL perl e print _ _ for sort _ lynx dump URL ,0
 m mike masnick mike techdirt com writes m in which world are we talking about that may be true for the m first sale but once something is out in the world the m creator loses control if i buy a chair you built and then m decide to give it away to my neighbor by you re definition he m just stole from you i don t endorse the whole riaa thing but to be accurate you would have to duplicate the chair so that both you and your neighbour could continue to sit down and yes i suppose that would be more serious they can sit on your copy but if you start churning out exact dups of a name brand artifact people with law degrees start to smell money for example i could copy a gibson guitar exactly so long as a i don t put orville s name on the headstock and b i license the patented bracing methods if i instead try to sell a homebuilt guitar on ebay with gibson written in crayon on the headstock and then claim it is a true les paul limited edition i expect people would get upset m why is it that people don t understand that giving stuff away m is a perfectly acceptable tactic in capitalist businesses to play the devil s advocate here it s not about giving stuff away it is about granting endless and cascading duplication distribution rights even if _i_ only make the copy i give to you that doesn t stop you from making NUMBER copies to sell m access to free stuff often helps to sell other stuff this is the difficult question how will they draw the distinction the other stuff is just as easy to duplicate as the free stuff this is why ms is hunting people with illegal windows it s no harder to dup than a linux cd only what is there that actually prevents people from doing it personally i don t think the issue should have anything to do with sales or units the issue is that basic phallacy that says a suit should be able to own someone else s intellectual property sarah mclaughlin isn t suing you it s her label s legal dept because it s the label who stands to lose sarah s already fat beyond her wildest dreams so a few bucks here or there or even if the well dried up tomorrow it s not going to really traumatize her unless she s been blazingly stupid with her money but the label like disney and mickey they need the cash cow so they can keep all sorts of uncreative hangers on in limos and coke if you thought only elvis or brian jones or dennis wilson had problems with beautiful people deadbeat leech friends draining their riches think again the problem is really very simple because it is semantic and until we make the semantic flip it s unsolvable but like trisecting an angle all it takes is looking at the same situation in a different way here s the revelation elvis never ever made a hit record elvis didn t make the hits his fans made the hits his fans did the work cleaning toilets manning the convenience stores driving milk trucks sitting at endless office desks they did the real labour that paid for every last one of elvis presley s pills all elvis did was sing into a microphone every so often and pen or collect the odd song that all those people liked and wanted as something of their own but it s not _elvis_ who made them universal statements it is the universe of fans who slurped the songs into their own lives it was pull technology not push therefore the question becomes how many times must these fans pay before they own what they themselves have created they pay royalties for listening to the radio for blank tapes for concert tickets for a beer in a bar with a cover band they pay over and over and over again for the right to make some hack writer s song their favourite song that s where the whole system has been seriously warped by the record companies and ad companies reframing it into your thinking that it is the elvis who makes the elvis it s not it s the people who make them the songs are already theirs gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
 ultimately there was a big disagreement about how to sell the product sales guys wanted to sell the thing for a gazillion dollars to megaclients but we thought it would make more sense to get more people using it so we could get more feedback from many different places the bottom line was that the route we wound up going megaclients for megabucks had a megalong sales cycle the sales force staffed up and tried to sell the earliest releases of the software even succeeding in a few significant cases but couldn t get enough to cover their own expenses much less the actual development of the product now where have i seen that before oh yeah its happening to me right now ,0
 a adam l beberg beberg mithral com writes a i m not displeased you re trying to help just frustrated that a employers can demand such rediculous combinations of skills a with insane years of experience from my NUMBER years in the playing field imho the art of job hunting for those not yet de jobbed is the art of getting past the hr stage interview and into the engineer to engineer interview hr is not being honest with you so there s no ethical quandry to be totally honest with them if they want experience numbers that would place you in the oak project lead them to believe that you have something roughly equivalent ie it wasn t NUMBER years but it was three intense years with plenty of overtime they are playing a bluff in saying they know the job requirements so you re perfectly within poker rules to bluff back to say you have it if you don t have the requisite right stuff the engineers can usually suss it out pretty fast during the second interview most often their choice is based NUMBER on who can i work with and only maybe NUMBER on how much little will we have to tutor this candidate gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
 from the local paper this morning canadians eat about seven times as many doughnuts per capita as americans d oh owen ,0
 barbara blithered others indicators this was a late invention are the use of the f rune not only for f but inverted to mean ff the welsh v phoneme stew stired isn t it the other way round f welsh v english ff welsh f english barbara babbles mea culpa that s what i get for reading my welsh dictionary upside down f n trouble barbara yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 martin mentioned i ve used this a few times and can thoroughly recommend it it really doeswork frankly the only drawback is finding too much stuff rachel rote i ll be amazed if there s anyone on here who isn t already a heavy user barbara babbles be amazed i ve never bought anything online since an almighty cock up with amazon dot con that s not a typo a few years back where i lost all the dosh i d paid them and had no books to show for it either had it been the uk branch i d have had them in the small claims court quicker than you could drop lotr on your foot and say ouch but as it was the us branch i d just no comeback barbara yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL cam ron associate juelz santana has vehemently defended a lyric on the forthcoming album by the pair s diplomats crew that pays tribute to september NUMBER hijacker omar atta yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 cam ron associate juelz santana has vehemently defended a lyric on the forthcoming album by the pair s diplomats crew that pays tribute to september NUMBER hijacker omar atta no steve earle at least used to make great records martin yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
hey i has just been given an old toshiba csNUMBER with earliest pentium and NUMBERmb of hd but only a floppy drive on it its got winNUMBER NUMBER which is funny to see again but gonna be cleared as soon as i stop messing with it what i was wondering was could anyone advise what o s would be good for this i want a small usable nix distro for it that i can transfer to it fom floppy connecting this to winblows i know that winblows allows pier to pier connections over serial and parellel ports to other winblows but is this easy do for connecting winblows to nix irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 hi all does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my root directory or the second biggest etc because i want to find out what is the reason cause my root all most full the system is solaris NUMBER sparc thanks __________________________________________________ do you yahoo yahoo finance get real time stock quotes URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER jon wrote i has just been given an old toshiba csNUMBER with earliest pentium and NUMBERmb of hd but only a floppy drive on it its got winNUMBER NUMBER which is funny to see again but gonna be cleared as soon as i stop messing with it what i was wondering was could anyone advise what o s would be good for this i want a small usable nix distro for it that i can transfer to it fom floppy connecting this to winblows i know that winblows allows pier to pier connections over serial and parellel ports to other winblows but is this easy do for connecting winblows to nix have done exactly this with debian only i used a pcmcia network card and did it off URL ucd bandwidth is rather good however if you ve another machine look into this null modem cable jobby URL whether you can connect that to direct cable connectioni ve no idea you could however put the files onto windows boot onto a ilug bbc tm and mount the fatNUMBER partition easier quicker way is to get your hands on a pcmcia nic also makes the maptop far more useful in the long run gavin irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
if you re not in doolin beg borrow or steal your way there before the lbw folk depart it s far too much fun cheers waider just back waider URL yes it is very personal of me we are in fact well and truly doomed she says that if i leave now i can probably get a good head start before they realize that i m gone jamie zawinski irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
inn share s shareinnn yahoo com NUMBER lines of wisdom included hi all does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my root directory or the second biggest etc because i want to find out what is the reason cause my root all most full find dir name xargs du s sort n smallest files are listed first with the largest at the end so if you want to get the NUMBER largest files pipe through tail e g find dir name xargs du s sort n tail NUMBER philip reynolds rfc networks tel NUMBER NUMBER URL fax NUMBER NUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
philip reynolds wrote does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my root directory or the second biggest etc find dir name xargs du s sort n you might want to put a type f on that find paul irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER david neary wrote actually the following would be in some way sensible echo e echo enc sed s NUMBER NUMBERa fa f NUMBER NUMBER x NUMBER g why NUMBER NUMBER why not NUMBER no idea the above was something along the lines i was attempting once i realised it was a straight swap but i couldnt get awk s gensub to insert the x for s and s anyway in the end i found something on the internet and adapted it function decode_url str hextab i c cNUMBER cNUMBER len code hex to dec lookup table hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab a NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab b NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab c NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab d NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab e NUMBER hextab NUMBER NUMBER hextab f NUMBER decoded i NUMBER len length str while i len c substr str i NUMBER check for usual start of uri hex encoding chars if c c if i NUMBER len valid hex encoding cNUMBER toupper substr str i NUMBER NUMBER cNUMBER toupper substr str i NUMBER NUMBER if hextab cNUMBER hextab cNUMBER code NUMBER hextab cNUMBER NUMBER hextab cNUMBER NUMBER c sprintf c code i i NUMBER is space apparently else if c c decoded decoded c i return decoded cheers dave ps the late reply is because the footer on the original mail if you received this mail in error yadda yadda got caught in my spam filter and ended up in my junkmail directory he he might not have been the footer check my headers regards paul jakma paul URL paul URL key id NUMBERaNUMBERffNUMBERa warning do not ever send email to spam URL fortune one nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
might just take a trip over there later tomorrow it is after all only on my backdoor step e original message from ilug admin URL mailto ilug admin URL on behalf of ronan waide sent NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to ilug list subject ilug doolin if you re not in doolin beg borrow or steal your way there before the lbw folk depart it s far too much fun cheers waider just back waider URL yes it is very personal of me we are in fact well and truly doomed she says that if i leave now i can probably get a good head start before they realize that i m gone jamie zawinski irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hi i ve got an normal NUMBER NUMBER cd rw ide drive that i d like to be able to use with a dell latitude cpx laptop that i ve got does anyone know any way to enable this for example through the use of a special cable for the modular bay where cd rom or floppy drive is normally there is also the possibility of using a docking station but dell s docking solution for the latitude series doesn t seem to allow for the use of an ide drive only scsi unless someone knows of a non dell solution that s compatible anyone any ideas thanks darren irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
darren kenny wrote hi i ve got an normal NUMBER NUMBER cd rw ide drive that i d like to be able to use with a dell latitude cpx laptop that i ve got does anyone know any way enable this for example through the use of a special cable for the modular bay where cd rom or floppy drive is normally there is absolutely no way to use a conventional NUMBER NUMBER drive with a laptop directly however you can get an external firewire or usb cradle and attach it to the laptop like that and any NUMBER NUMBER drive will work in that case example URL regards vin irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
philip reynolds wrote inn share s shareinnn yahoo com NUMBER lines of wisdom included hi all does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my root directory or the second biggest etc because i want to find out what is the reason cause my root all most full find dir name xargs du s sort n smallest files are listed first with the largest at the end so if you want to get the NUMBER largest files pipe through tail adding r to the sort options and piping through head instead might be a better idea tail needs to read teh whole buffer head only reads the first n lines cheers dave david neary marseille france e mail bolsh URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on tue aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER vincent cunniffe mentioned there is absolutely no way to use a conventional NUMBER NUMBER drive with a laptop directly however you can get an external firewire or usb cradle and attach it to the laptop like that and any NUMBER NUMBER drive will work in that case ah they told me that about my aNUMBER just got a video box cut air holes and a hole for the cables then got an extra long NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER ide cable and connected it up had to make a few holes in the aNUMBER case for the ide cable too worked a charm until i dropped the disk one day onto concrete kate irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
ok iknow this is blatantly ot but i m beginning to go insane had an old dell dimension xps sitting in the corner and decided to put it to use i know it was working pre being stuck in the corner but when i plugged it in hit the power nothing happened i opened her up and had a look and say nothing much a little orange led comes on when i plug her in but that s it after some googling i found some reference to re seating all the parts but no change the problem i m having is that since the power supply is some dell specific one atx block with what looks like one of the old at power connectors i cant figure out weather this is a mobo prob or a psu prob just to futily try and drag this back ot i want to install linux on it when i get it working if anyone knows what the problem might be give me a shout cheers peter peter aherne software engineer motorola ireland ltd ph NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mobile NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
john p looney wrote there is absolutely no way to use a conventional NUMBER NUMBER drive with a laptop directly ah they told me that about my aNUMBER worked a charm until i dropped the disk one day onto concrete go on tell them how long the first one lasted i vote external firewire if the laptop has the ports for it paul irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
i vote usb NUMBER NUMBER as the chances are the cdr drive is not over NUMBERx write and thus fireware is of no real use but i cant see how you are going to get it working without a cradle i cant even get my dell laptop dvd drive to work as the connectors are not the same as my cd drive ones seems dell cant keep any standards going original message from paul kelly mailto longword esatclear ie sent NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to ilug URL subject re ilug using normal ide device with a dell latitude cpx laptop john p looney wrote there is absolutely no way to use a conventional NUMBER NUMBER drive with a laptop directly ah they told me that about my aNUMBER worked a charm until i dropped the disk one day onto concrete go on tell them how long the first one lasted i vote external firewire if the laptop has the ports for it paul irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL disclaimer the information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged it is intended solely for the addressee access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised if you are not the intended recipient any disclosure copying or distribution of the message or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error thank you irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 original message from aherne peter pahernNUMBER mailto peter aherne motorola com sent NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to ilug URL subject ilug ot dell machine giving me hassle ok iknow this is blatantly ot but i m beginning to go insane had an old dell dimension xps sitting in the corner and decided to put it to use i know it was working pre being stuck in the corner but when i plugged it in hit the power nothing happened i opened her up and had a look and say nothing much a little orange led comes on when i plug her in but that s it after some googling i found some reference to re seating all the parts but no change the problem i m having is that since the power supply is some dell specific one atx block with what looks like one of the old at power connectors i cant figure out weather this is a mobo prob or a psu prob just to futily try and drag this back ot i want to install linux on it when i get it working if anyone knows what the problem might be give me a shout here is what you do remove all the pci isa eisa cards remove the floppy disk cable from the mobo the ide cables from the mobo essentially leaving only a video card ram and a keyboard plugged in turn on the system if it doesn t post then switch it off and remove the video card switch it back on if your mobo doesn t emit some beeps complaining about lack of video card then switch it off remove it s ram same procedure as above if you still don t have any kind of mobo beep codes then you can try as a last ditch effort to reseat the cpu remembering to never ever ever power up your system without a heatsink fan if after reseating the cpu into the mobo you still get no beep codes from it with just the cpu inserted into the mobo ie no pci isa cards or and no actual ide or floppy cables connected to the system even though you have power you either have a faulty motherboard or a faulty cpu once you get beep codes various permutations of the above should eventually disjunct which device it is is causing the lack of post power on self test bod irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 ok iknow this is blatantly ot but i m beginning to go insane had an old dell dimension xps sitting in the corner and decided to put it to use i know it was working pre being stuck in the corner but when i plugged it in hit the power nothing happened i opened her up and had a look and say nothing much a little orange led comes on when i plug her in but that s it after some googling i found some reference to re seating all the parts but no change the problem i m having is that since the power supply is some dell specific one atx block with what looks like one of the old at power connectors i cant figure out weather this is a mobo prob or a psu prob just to futily try and drag this back ot i want to install linux on it when i get it working if anyone knows what the problem might be give me a shout ie if you are getting a little orange led when you plug it in then your psu is probably working irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
john p looney wrote i ve two directories that once upon a time contained the same files now they don t is there a tool to merge the two create a new directory where if the files are the same they aren t changed if they are different the one with the most recent datestamp is used just for the record mc has a nice directory comparison function this is really nice when using the ftp vfs for e g of course if you use something like ftpfs you can use the previously mentioned tools pádraig irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hello folks i m new to linux so here goes i ve been trying to get connected to the outside world through my modem i ve got debian with kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ve got this win modem yes i know and managed to locate a proper driver for it minicom is very much able to dial out but there seems to be a problem with my pppd installation when i type ppp in the minicom terminal all i get after the initial info of my dynamic ip etc is a and then the no carrier signal then i looked into calling pppd directly using chat i used this command pppd call provider where provider is some script somewhere it dials it connects it sends my username password and when connection is established it gives the sighup signal and exits this is confirmed when me friend and i tried to connect through a serial port using pppd to connect ttysNUMBER i ran pppd waiting for a connection me friend tried connecting and as soon as he did pppd exited some expert help would be greatly appreciated as i m sick and tired of having to reboot get into windoze to hook up to the net and then back to linux mounting this drive to get that file etc it d be nice never have to go back to windoze except for games that is thanks a million carlos irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
paul jakma wrote on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER david neary wrote actually the following would be in some way sensible echo e echo enc sed s NUMBER NUMBERa fa f NUMBER NUMBER x NUMBER g why NUMBER NUMBER why not NUMBER the above was something along the lines i was attempting once i realised it was a straight swap but i couldnt get awk s gensub to insert the x for s and s perl s pack would do the job ps the late reply is because the footer on the original mail if you received this mail in error yadda yadda got caught in my spam filter and ended up in my junkmail directory might not have been the footer check my headers actually it was worse a bodycheck showed up a remove url i need a new spam filter but i want to be able to process false positives rather than dump them cheers dave david neary marseille france e mail bolsh URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
inn share wrote hi all does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my root directory or the second biggest etc because i want to find out what is the reason cause my root all most full the system is solaris NUMBER sparc thanks i think everybody has their own version of this but in case it s useful only tested on linux find type f o type l maxdepth NUMBER mindepth NUMBER printNUMBER xargs rNUMBER du b max depth NUMBER sort kNUMBERn grep v NUMBER pádraig irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
inn share shareinnn yahoo com writes hi all does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my root directory or the second biggest etc because i want to find out what is the reason cause my root all most full find xdev type f exec du sk sort rn head NUMBER xdev will stop find recursing into other filesystems cheers tiarnan tiarnán ó corráin consultant system administrator cmg wireless data solutions ltd tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
david neary wrote padraig brady wrote paul jakma wrote chars in hex to plain ascii eg given http w NUMBER NUMBER NUMBEReo NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERf NUMBER NUMBERum n NUMBERt remove html is there an easy way to turn it into URL eg whether by piping through some already available tool or programmatically printf but i dont see how actually the following would be in some way sensible echo e echo enc sed s NUMBER NUMBERa fa f NUMBER NUMBER x NUMBER g why NUMBER NUMBER why not NUMBER me being silly that s all pádraig irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 i m not familiar with dell dimension xps and to be honest not familiar with any brand name computers most of my experience is china motherboards but i ve seen same behavior once changing the battery helps that time it was big round battery with panasonic on it computer starts beeping then we removed battery from mb it even booted up well loosing time and some other things just my NUMBER cents misha on wed NUMBER aug NUMBER aherne peter pahernNUMBER wrote ok iknow this is blatantly ot but i m beginning to go insane had an old dell dimension xps sitting in the corner and decided to put it to use snip irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on fri aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER padraig brady wrote probably a bit old NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER are out and i ve been told by a suse rep that NUMBER NUMBER will be out in october for those who are interested david irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hi all i ve decided at last to test the alsa sound drivers as usual the result is that i ve spent much more time repackaging the darn thing than actually testing the functionalities or trying to hear the great sound quality people seem to think it outputs but hey some of you will benefit from that right i ve got the whole thing working on a valhalla system but the packages should easily install or at least recompile on enigma limbo null and maybe others who knows here are quick instructions for those of you that wish to try it out recompile the alsa driver source rpm for your running kernel you can install the binary package if you re using the iNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER install this alsa driver package install the alsa libs package install the alsa utils package now go to this url and find out what you need to change in your etc modules conf file to replace the default oss driver loading URL very complete and very good documentation hopefully you ll see that your card is supported reboot or remove by hand your current sound modules you ll probably need to stop many applications to free the sound resource by hand and insert the new ones if all is well you ve got alsa working dmesg to check is a good idea you now just need to adjust the volume levels with e g aumix and alsamixer because everything is muted by default with aplay you can already test files to see if you hear anything you can also install the xmms plugin seems to make my xmms segfault on exit hmmm but maybe it s another plugin to listen to your good ol mpNUMBER files that s it it really isn t complicated and has never been from what i see the only thing i disliked was to have to install from source but as i can t imagine myself doing that i ve repackaged everything cleanly even the dev entries are included in the rpm package and not created by an ugly post script i insist and seamlessly integrate into the etc makedev d structure there are also a few other noticeable differences with the default provided alsa spec files for example i ve split alsa lib s development files into an alsa lib devel package and included static libraries there are others of course oh yes the kernel version against which the alsa driver package is compiled gets neatly integrated in the rpm release so does the architecture i m open to any comments or suggestions about these packages download URL current spec files URL URL URL all others patches etc URL matthias ps as an extra bonus i ve also recompiled xine with alsa support simply run xine a alsaNUMBER and off you go it may even support NUMBER NUMBER and s pdif clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
while i was playing with the past issues it annoyed me that there was no easy way to make the log stop growing i don t mean to truncate it i mean to just freeze it for a while the following patch adds a new button to the log window which allows the log to be switched on off the button says disable when the log is enabled and the button disables it and enable when the log is frozen and the button enables it again kre main tcl wed aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER usr local lib exmh NUMBER NUMBER main tcl wed aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER exmhlogcreate wm withdraw exmh logtop if exmh logwrite return if info exists exmh log catch exmh log insert end bw_delta NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER set exmh logwindow NUMBER exwin_toplevel log exmh log log set exmh logtop log set exmh logdisablebut widget_addbut exmh logtop but swap disable exmhlogtoggle set exmh logwrite NUMBER widget_addbut exmh logtop but trunc truncate exmhlogtrunc widget_addbut exmh logtop but save save to file exmhlogsave set exmh logyview NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER msg exmh_status cannot save log msg error proc exmhlogtoggle global exmh set exmh logwrite expr exmh logwrite exmh logdisablebut configure text lindex enable disable exmh logwrite misc _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 URL lima peru reuters lina medina s parents thought their NUMBER year old daughter had a huge abdominal tumor and when shamans in their remote village in peru s andes could find no cure her father carried her to hospital just over a month later she gave birth to a boy aged NUMBER years seven months and NUMBER days old when her child was born by caesarean section in may NUMBER medina made medical history and is still the youngest known mother in the world at the time peru s government promised aid that never materialized six decades on medina lives with her husband in a cramped house in a poor crime ridden district of the peruvian capital known as little chicago now NUMBER she keeps herself to herself and has long refused requests to rake up the past gerardo the son she delivered while still a child herself died in NUMBER at the age of NUMBER but a new book written by an obstetrician who has been interested in her case has drawn fresh attention to medina s story and raised the prospect that the peruvian government may belatedly offer her financial and other assistance the government condemned them to live in poverty in any other country they would be the objects of special care jose sandoval author of mother aged NUMBER told reuters we still have time to repair the damage done to her that s my fundamental objective he added totally willing to help sandoval has raised medina s case with the office of first lady eliane karp and has asked the government to grant her a life pension something officials say is possible we re totally willing to help her said spokeswoman marta castaneda but suni ramos of the social action department of karp s office said that before the government could grant her a pension or any other of the aid it was already planning such as kitchen and other household equipment it needed to talk to her to discuss what she wanted and needed it is currently trying to contact medina and her family medina s husband raul jurado told reuters his wife remained skeptical she got no help in NUMBER that i know about he said she thinks governments never deliver maybe today there will be a promise that will never come true jurado said his wife whose story is a medical textbook classic and whose case is confirmed as true by such bodies as the american college of obstetricians and gynecologists had turned down reuters request for an interview medical rarity no one has ever established who was the father of medina s child or confirmed she became pregnant after being raped one of nine children born to country folk in ticrapo an andean village at an altitude of NUMBER NUMBER feet NUMBER NUMBER meters in peru s poorest province medina is believed to be the youngest case of precocious puberty in history sandoval said he said she had her first period at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER became pregnant aged NUMBER years and eight months and that when doctors performed the caesarean to deliver her baby they found she already had fully mature sexual organs her swelling stomach worried her parents they thought it was a tumor he said but shamans ruled out village superstitions including one in which locals believed a snake grew inside a person until it killed them and recommended they take her to hospital in the nearest big town pisco there came the staggering diagnosis that she was pregnant her father was jailed temporarily on suspicion of incest he was later released for lack of evidence and doctors police and even a film crew set off for her village for preliminary investigations into her case sandoval who based his book on media and other published information and some interviews with relatives as medina herself declined to comment said news of the child mother to be drew instant offers of aid including one worth NUMBER NUMBER from a u s businessman which was turned down more offers followed after medina was transferred to a lima hospital where her fully developed NUMBER pound NUMBER NUMBER kg baby was born on may NUMBER NUMBER mother s day one offer was worth NUMBER NUMBER a week plus expenses for medina and her baby to be exhibited at the world s fair in new york another from a u s business that the family accepted in early june NUMBER was for the pair to travel to the united states for scientists to study the case the offer included setting up a fund to ensure their lifelong financial comfort but within days the state trumped all previous offers decreeing that medina and her baby were in moral danger and resolving to set up a special commission to protect them but sandoval said it abandoned the case after six months it did absolutely nothing for them happy ending though physically mature medina who sandoval said was mentally normal and showed no other unusual medical symptoms still behaved like a child preferring to play with her dolls instead of the new baby who was fed by a wet nurse medina stayed in hospital for NUMBER months finally returning to her family after it began legal proceedings that led to a supreme court ruling allowing her to live with them again after taunting from schoolmates gerardo who was named after one of the doctors who attended medina and became their mentor discovered when he was NUMBER that the woman he had grown up believing to be his sister was in fact his mother he died in NUMBER from a disease that attacks the body s bone marrow but sandoval said it was not clear there was any link with his illness and the fact his mother had been so young medina married and in NUMBER had a second son NUMBER years after her first her second child now lives in mexico she appears to have turned her bizarre story into a taboo subject we just want to get on with our lives that s it said jurado adding he thought absolutely nothing of the fact his wife was the world s youngest mother he said the couple s main concern now if the government s offer of aid was genuine was to be granted the value of a property that belonged to medina and which the then government expropriated more than two decades ago that house has now been destroyed and there is a road on the site he said its value was more or less NUMBER NUMBER and settling the property question would conclude a long legal battle to get back a home of their own they live now in a modest house accessed down a dingy alley half blocked by a wooden board in a tough neighborhood known to locals as a thieves paradise if the government really wants to help they should give us the value of our property he said as for sandoval he said he was optimistic that medina s story which he has studied since his student days would turn out well i believe there will be a happy ending he said as a result of the war corporations have now been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed abraham lincoln nov NUMBER NUMBER in a letter to col william f elkins non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
barbara wrote pictish pictograms still undeciphered i d be interested in an update on the latest thinking on these things particularly the swimming elephant pictogram there s a book come out recently on the world s undeciphered scripts including linear a and etruscan has any list member read it yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 in forteana y martin adamson martin s wrote for an alternative and rather more factually based rundown on hamza s career including his belief that all non muslims in yemen should be murdered outright URL and we know how unbiased memri is don t we URL html rob yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL NUMBER NUMBERft lizard abandoned at resort holidaymakers at a seaside resort were stunned to find a NUMBER NUMBERft lizard sunning itself at a caravan park close to a beach the savannah monitor lizard was captured at chapel st leonards lincs on sunday by a member of the public before being collected by an rspca team rspca officer justin stubbs who took the lizard to a specialist carer said savannah monitors can give a nasty bite and we certainly wouldn t have wanted one loose in a busy holiday resort for long officials believe the animal may have been abandoned by a private owner because it has not been reported missing savannah monitor lizards originate in africa and are carnivorous eating rats and small rodents they can grow to NUMBERft in length anyone with information about the lizard can contact the rspca in confidence on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL close encounter of burnt kind it came from outer space or did it teenager siobhan cowton is convinced the object which struck her as she climbed into the family car at her home in northallerton is extra terrestrial but while her claims are being treated with a certain amount of studied academic scepticism by experts in these matters the NUMBER year old schoolgirl is adamant she was hit on the foot by a meteorite siobhan initially thought there was a more prosaic explanation that the odd looking stone had been thrown at her by a child but on closer inspection she discovered all was not as it seemed because it was hot when she picked it up it hit her on a foot but caused no injury i looked at it again and it had a black and grey colour with a shiny bubble surface she said after closer inspection by her father niel and comparison with pictures on the internet siobhan plans to ask scientists at durham university to check the object for authenticity if it is from outer space siobhan says she will consider putting it up for auction she added if it isn t worth anything then i suppose i will keep it myself for sentimental value it is not every day that you are hit by a meteorite but dr ben horton a lecturer in physical geography was the acme of academic caution meteors have features that can be used to establish whether it is a piece of extraterrestrial rock he said they have a very smooth surface but sometimes they have shallow depressions and cavities if they are hot they should have a black ash like crust burnt around the edge most are between five and NUMBER centimetres but five centimetres is the smallest that they usually appear to establish the provenance of siobhan s suspected meteorite it would have to be subject to a mineral breakdown but dr horton thinks the chances of it being extra terrestrial are slim around NUMBER NUMBER a year strike the earth s surface and considering the size of the earth it is very unlikely to be a meteorite however there is a possibility and there is no reason it couldn t happen he added yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
evening standard NUMBER august NUMBER deft use of fortean unit of measurement in NUMBERnd para ma lost penguins found alive by charles miranda a colony of emperor penguins which was thought to have starved to death in antarctica has been found alive in a big huddle the birds were spotted by the crew of a usaf jet returning to base in new zealand researchers had feared that a breakaway iceberg the size of jamaica had all but wiped out the colony at cape crozier on ross island thousands of chicks are believed to have died as an increase in sea ice made it impossible for the adults to find food a detailed count is planned in october antarctica new zealand chief executive lou sanson said the penguins were in a big huddle we can now hope that the emperors have had a successful breeding season over the winter some NUMBER NUMBER pairs of emperors the largest penguins in the world at NUMBER NUMBERft tall and NUMBERlb usually nest at cape crozier NUMBER miles from the us mcmurdo research station the NUMBER NUMBER strong adelie penguin colony which also nests at the cape may have lost up to third of its population yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
hi some time now the following messages were haunting me automount NUMBER attempting to mount entry home dude it just came to my attention that only freshrpm benefitting hosts showed this up i grepped through the binaries and found referrences to home dude grep home dude usr bin binary file usr bin aaxine matches binary file usr bin gentoo matches binary file usr bin gphotoNUMBER matches binary file usr bin gtkam matches i am now relaxed again and pass this info on probably matthias saou himself is dude and some package has hardwired a path in his build directory it would be nice to find out which and fix it but i am using too many of the freshrpm suite to narrow it down regards axel axel thimm URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 URL big cats are on the loose in britain and breeding their way towards record numbers a monitoring group has claimed the british big cats society said it has received more than NUMBER reports of animals including pumas black panthers leopards and so called fen tigers over the past NUMBER months and while it admits that many sightings are of nothing more exotic than the average moggy it claims to have firm evidence that the majority are real society founder daniel bamping told bbc news online he could cope with the critics and doubters adding i was a sceptic i thought it was in the same realm as the loch ness monster but it s not they are really out there cats with cubs mr bamping said there have been reports of big cats from every corner of the country big cat reports hotspots include scotland and gloucestershire january NUMBER kent man clawed by suspected lynx november NUMBER farmer reports animals mauled by big cat april NUMBER lynx captured in north london NUMBER puma like cat attacks horse in wales this weekend alone i have had sightings from wales the scottish borders kent the west midlands devon somerset and wiltshire he said the society claims some of the big cats are breeding with domestic animals but mr bamping said others particularly lynx and puma probably exist in sufficient numbers to breed among themselves we have had sightings of cats with cubs he added trigger camera the society claims to have evidence proving the cats existence including photographs paw prints sheep kills and hair samples but it knows it will have to do even more to convince a sceptical public that it is not spinning them a shaggy cat story a national trigger camera project is planned which the society hopes will provide footage to prove the existence of the big cats mr bamping said the idea is that the cat will walk past the camera and take a picture of itself like dogs the society believes many of the sighting are of pets released into the wild or their descendants its spokesman danny nineham said in the NUMBERs and NUMBERs people had big cats like leopards as pets and they used to walk them like dogs but in NUMBER when the dangerous wild animals act came into force people released their cats because they did not want to pay for a licence put them down or take them to a zoo yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL us soldiers on peacekeeping duties in the future could find that a portable translation device will be an essential part of their equipment scientists at carnegie mellon university have developed a prototype of a speech translator that was road tested by us army chaplains in croatia this project shows how a relatively simple speech to speech translation system can be rapidly and successfully constructed using today s tools said the team from carnegie mellon university in a research paper published recently the research was commissioned by the us army which is increasingly finding itself in peace keeping roles where communication is key speaking in tongues in the balkans the army is not just supposed to conquer somebody robert frederking of carnegie mellon university told the bbc programme go digital translators could be essential for us soldiers in a peacekeeping situation you have two guys trying to beat each other up and you are holding them apart you can t just shot one of them you have to figure what is going on and talk to them he said the portable translator was developed with a year using commercially available laptops the army did not want to field test the device in a battlefield situation so instead the translator was tested by us army chaplains in croatia the chaplains very often end up having to talk to foreign nationals and typically don t have any translation support explained mr frederking slow system for the trials the chaplains used the translator to speak to croatians who knew just a smattering of english the system works by having a speech recogniser that picks up the words in croatian turns the speech into text the written words are then translated into english and read out by a speech synthesizer it went reasonably well half the time said mr frederking though it was slow in translating phrases the research team admit that the system is not ready to be deployed in the field but they say their trials showed that a portable translator could be made to work with further research and development the audio voice translation guide system project was a joint venture between the us army the military manufacturer lockheed martin and carnegie mellon university yahoo groups sponsor receive phone calls and faxes while you re online emerson switchboard eliminates the need for a second phone line order the switchboard today for NUMBER NUMBER shipping and handling URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
ananova brazilian bees keep their own insect ranch scientists have found a new species of bee that behaves like a farmer by keeping herds of insects the amazonian schwarzula use their own insect ranches to provide food and building materials the bees nest in holes in trees alongside NUMBER aphid like insects from a species called cryptostigma cryptostigma feed on tree sap and excrete a sugar solution which the bees stop them from drowning in by licking it up and turning it into honey the insects also produce wax from glands on their backs which the bees scrape off and use for their nest nature reports it is the first time farming behaviour has been discovered in bees biologist joao camargo of the university of sao paulo in brazil said in turn the bees provide the insects with sanitary benefits and protection writing in the journal biotropica camargo says the bees might even carry their insect ranches around the forest with them and is planning further research on how they tend to their herd studies of the schwarzula showed the bees seemed to get most of their sugar from the insect farms some bees were seen licking human sweat for salt story filed NUMBER NUMBER wednesday NUMBERth august NUMBER yahoo groups sponsor super blue stuff pain relief on sale today for NUMBER NUMBER shipping with super blue stuff you ll feel the results in just minutes relieves arthritis pain back pain sore muscles and more URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
not fortean but a moment in time all the same URL betamax video recorders are finally being phased out almost NUMBER years after losing the battle for dominance of the home video market to vhs betamax s manufacturer sony has announced that it will make only NUMBER NUMBER more machines for the japanese market they have not been on sale in the rest of the world since NUMBER vhs became the dominant format by the mid NUMBERs betamax was launched in NUMBER and won many fans who said it was better quality than its vhs rival some NUMBER NUMBER million betamax machines were sold worldwide in its peak year NUMBER but it soon went downhill as vhs became the format of choice for the film rental industry and in homes just NUMBER NUMBER machines were sold in the NUMBER months to march NUMBER with digital machines and other new recording formats taking hold in the market demand has continued to decline and it has become difficult to secure parts sony said in a statement sony said it would continue to offer repairs and manufacture tapes for the format the professional betamax format betacam is still widely used in the television and film industries and will be unaffected but the recent rise of dvds seems to have put the final nail in the coffin for betamax home players in the NUMBERs many video rental chains preferred the vhs format betamax lovers became so passionate about the format in the face of competition from vhs that they set up the betaphile club in NUMBER the picture and sound quality of beta was superior to vhs betaphiles say although vhs tapes had a longer duration a total of NUMBER million betamax machines were sold around the world but no new ones will be made after the end of NUMBER sony is now planning to focus its efforts on new digital technologies see also yahoo groups sponsor kwick pick portable lock pick opens almost any lock locked out try the kwick pick for NUMBER NUMBER you can open car doors desk drawers padlocks and much more never get locked out again URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
does anyone know if this is supported under NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER kernels or higher i need to buy an isdn ta quick and pc world have these in stock for NUMBER thanks david david hamilton senior technical consultant hp ireland irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
ive just gotton myself a modem no its not a winmodem yes im sure it dials the internet grant using the redhat ppp dialer and i can ping the server i dial into but i cant get any furthur than that server any ideas irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
martin adamson wrote and we know how unbiased memri is don t we oh of course you re right any information not coming from a source that fits your pre conceived world view can simply be dismissed out of hand martin for goddess sake martin that seems to be exactly what you re doing you started your reply to tim s posting of the guardian article by suggesting that it was factually inaccurate did you actually read it or did you just assume that if the grauniad writes about a muslim extremist they must be making him out as an all round nice guy stewart stewart smith scottish microelectronics centre university of edinburgh URL yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 cnsnews com a pro family group in cincinnati that has pressured two area hotels to stop showing adult pay per view movies has vowed to expand its grass roots campaign nationwide quite right and while they re at it they can get that bunch of religious nuts to stop sneaking their book of hate and intolerence into the bedside cabinets you know that one with all the telephone humbers in it oh and the gideon society can take their bibles back as well robinh what are you talking about that book is where all the best free porn is piece of trivia the thing is so pithy it floats fel URL weird page URL non text portions of this message have been removed yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the latest URL friday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt NUMBER NUMBER uk zimbabwe eases gm stance zimbabwe has dropped objections to accepting genetically modified gm grain so that urgently needed food aid can be delivered says the un food agency the executive director of the world food programme james morris said zimbabwe s decision would send an important message to other countries in the region which have refused food aid because it might contain gm grain until now zimbabwe had said it would only allow aid workers to distribute ground maize to allay fears that gm grain could be planted but a zimbabwean minister says the government has now set up a system of checks to ensure the grain will not enter the eco system there have been fears that southern african nations could lose lucrative export markets in europe if they cannot certify that their crops are gm free aid mr morris announced the policy reversal after talks in harare with zimbabwean president robert mugabe the fact that they have now concluded that they are comfortable in accepting gm crops or commodities will be an important signal to other countries in the region mr morris told journalists it will enable us to do our job he said aid workers say up to NUMBER million people in seven countries in southern africa face famine in zimbabwe which was once the bread basket of the region some six million people are estimated to need food aid the wfp says it already has aid pledges for about half of the NUMBER NUMBER tonnes of food it intends to bring into zimbabwe in the next few months the government blames the shortages solely on drought but the government s campaign to transfer land from large scale commercial white farmers has worsened the situation say many donors lost markets the gm row has complicated relief efforts across the region zambia s president is refusing to overturn his ban on gm food aid labelling it as poison deals to mill gm food before being distributed so that it could not be planted have placated fears in malawi and mozambique united states aid officials deny that the food is unsafe pointing out that americans eat gm maize every day the world health organisation has certified the grain for human consumption and says it does not constitute a danger to people s health yahoo groups sponsor looking for a more powerful website try geocities for NUMBER NUMBER per month register your domain name http your name com more storage no ads URL URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
near the end of his memoirs of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds NUMBER charles mackay discusses various catch phrases briefly popular in mid NUMBERth century london one of them he observes like a mushroom seems to have sprung up in the night or like a frog in cheapside to have come down in a sudden shower one day it was unheard unknown uninvented the next it pervaded london was like a frog in cheapside or something similar a catch phrase itself or did mackay come up with the simile on his own and to what event or events does it refer i didn t find anything relevant in partridge s a dictionary of catch phrases bc yahoo groups sponsor looking for a more powerful website try geocities for NUMBER NUMBER per month register your domain name http your name com more storage no ads URL URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
bill i ve decided that i ought to put some of my writing samples on line for potential employers to mock and i don t want to pay for it there are still a couple dozen places to do this do any of you have preferences getting your own domain needn t be expensive looks more professional and you re not going to suddenly lose your site with little or no notice yes i m still smarting from bastard geocities i registered mine through URL works out about a pound a week for registration and NUMBERmb hosting it s a valuable service there s no reason not to expect to pay timc yahoo groups sponsor looking for a more powerful website try geocities for NUMBER NUMBER per month register your domain name http your name com more storage no ads URL URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
of course everyone knows that owlman is a work of fuggin genius j hey i met the wizard bloke from owlman who wants to touch me dave yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the times september NUMBER NUMBER scissors are a snip for third world from richard owen in rome it is one of the unanswered questions of the past year what happens to the millions of nail scissors confiscated by airport security officials from passengers hand luggage most are thrown away or recycled after being seized as part of security measures since september NUMBER but an enterprising chaplain is sending them to catholic missionaries for distribution to third world hospitals and clinics in theory travellers who have left nail scissors nail files corkscrews or manicure sets from their hand luggage can arrange for them to be returned in practice many just shrug and leave the scissors by the x ray scanners father arturo rossini chaplain of malpensa airport in milan said that scissors were costly or unavailable in many parts of africa asia and latin america he told corriere della sera that he had plucked up the courage to ask the authorities if he could have the confiscated scissors with the help of a retired airport policeman he had packaged NUMBER NUMBER nail scissors and manicure sets using the airport chapel as a packing centre packages were shipped in aircraft holds to peru brasil india mozambique argentina zambia and kenya in such countries what we think of as a personal grooming accessory can be a vital tool the idea has been taken up at other italian airports yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 zimbabwe has dropped objections to accepting genetically modified gm grain so that urgently needed food aid can be delivered says the un food agency yes confirming what i said in my last message ah i see where the problem lies you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that zimbabwe and zambia are the same country martin yahoo groups sponsor sell a home for top URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
martin yes confirming what i said in my last message ah i see where the problem lies you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that zimbabwe and zambia are the same country no that would be rather silly there are conflicting reports on whether zambia is prepared to accept milled gm grain or not and from reports from various sources considerable debate within that country there s complex issues not all of which can be dismissed by blaming those nasty environmentalists which was my original point timc yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the times september NUMBER NUMBER hitler style applicant welcomed by parties by roger boyes managers of germany s political parties are having difficulty explaining their enthusiastic reaction to a man who applied for membership with letters cribbed largely from mein kampf hitler s personal manifesto the incident illustrates how indiscriminate parties have become in taking on new members during an election campaign even when their sentiments bear a suspicious resemblance to those of the führer edmund stoiber is a thousand times more suited to leading germany than the present chancellor said one letter sent to the christian social union headquarters in ingolstadt chancellor schröder is doing nothing to stop the flood of foreigners who are spreading around our fatherland said the letter signed by a certain rudolph lewald the csu immediately spotted a potential member many thanks for your nice thoughts replied the local party manager who enclosed an application for membership the letter used chunks of hitler s book which is still banned in germany history students have to apply for access to the book in university libraries the strongest the brave and the hardworking will receive the birthright of existence only those who are born weaklings could regard this as offensive the letter writer said so called humanity is melting like snow in the march sun such phrases were lifted from mein kampf which was written while hitler was in jail after the failed munich putsch of NUMBER similar letters also using the nazi leader s words were sent to the other political parties and drew sympathetic responses i read your letter with great interest and pleasure the manager of the christian democratic union in cologne said great that you want to join us enthused the green party headquarters the free democrats invited the aspiring party member to a fundraising charity ball at which hans dietrich genscher the former foreign minister would be the star guest the social democrats sent a list of rallies to be attended by gerhard schröder the chancellor i wanted to test how serious parties are about combating right wing extremism said the letter writer who was in fact the cologne novelist rainer popp i had no idea that they would be so enthusiastic for the first few days i expected two men in leather coats from the special branch to knock on my door instead only the postman called with packets of election material from zealous political headquarters herr popp said i was stunned that political parties could react in this way i reckon i would have had the same response if i had signed the letter adolf hitler yahoo groups sponsor NUMBER dvds free s p join now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
hi all saw this on the register this morning URL and they support isdn dual channel whoo hoo cw irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
quoting waider waider waider ie niall sheridan wrote a power cycle will do it other than that it s chipset specific sure tried powercycling an internal modem recently waider this is rick moen bait thanks it was delicious cheers that article and its poster have been cancelled rick moen david b o donnel sysadmin for america online rick URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER darragh wrote the help that i received today then though i tried to build them i started by trying the wNUMBER program i used the following lines which produced some strange results would any one be able to set me straight configure with emacs prefix usr local src beta wNUMBER exec prefix usr local src beta wNUMBER with url url url one thing i _think_ you might be doing slightly wrong is your specification of prefixes prefix is the directory to be used as root for _installing_ files typically packages use usr local as default so binaries might then go in usr local bin documentation in usr local doc and so forth normally i find it sufficient to put prefix usr local and do not further specify things like exec prefix maybe you have a special reason for using the prefixes you chose in which case ignore me that worked fine so i moved to the next step make at the bottem of the text i got the following messages cannot open load file url url url vars el make NUMBER custom load el error NUMBER make NUMBER leaving directory usr local src beta wNUMBER lisp make wNUMBER error NUMBER when i got around to trying the url package i had no problems in saying that this doesn t necessarily mean that i was doing it right so below are the commands i used configure with emacs prefix url url exec prefix url url i d make the same remarks about prefixes here i would use the command configure with emacs prefix usr local to get wNUMBER to compile i think the with url flag you should use is with url usr local share emacs site lisp assuming you compiled installed url with prefix usr local since you appear to have installed url in url url configure wNUMBER with configure with emacs prefix usr local with url url url share emacs site lisp a command you would have found useful would have been find name url vars el print which would have told you where the url vars el file was installed a program which is very useful is checkinstall URL it allows you to install packages from source while still registering them in the package management system of your distro rpm deb tgz instead of make install type checkinstall and a package is put together and installed for you makes uninstallation simpler than it might otherwise be michael conry ph NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER web URL key fingerprint NUMBER bNUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcNUMBER aNUMBER cbNUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER NUMBERde NUMBERc irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hello all firstly i d like to thank all of you for the fast and very helpful feedback that i got to my question today i have one more question though i downloaded the wNUMBER and url files from the server at the first try thanks to the help that i received today then though i tried to build them i started by trying the wNUMBER program i used the following lines which produced some strange results would any one be able to set me straight configure with emacs prefix usr local src beta wNUMBER exec prefix usr local src beta wNUMBER with url url url that worked fine so i moved to the next step make at the bottem of the text i got the following messages cannot open load file url url url vars el make NUMBER custom load el error NUMBER make NUMBER leaving directory usr local src beta wNUMBER lisp make wNUMBER error NUMBER when i got around to trying the url package i had no problems in saying that this doesn t necessarily mean that i was doing it right so below are the commands i used configure with emacs prefix url url exec prefix url url followed by the commands make and make install there is no text files which contain help on installing the url package so i m not completely certain if i ve used the right method here thanks again darragh original message from hunt bryan b hunt emuse tech com to macarthy iol ie michael conry URL cc ilug URL sent thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject ot re ilug newby to linux looking for information on cvs speaking of that ide weblogic developer the open source version called eclipse is free from URL if you are doing java development you need to get this ide i ve been using it for the last month and it is absolutly superb best thing about it is that rather than using swing which is crap is that they have their own native widget set called swt when you run it on windows it uses windows widgets but when you run it on linux it uses gtk you should see it on gnome NUMBER absolutely stunning b original message from justin maccarthy mailto macarthy iol ie sent NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to michael conry URL cc ilug URL subject re ilug newby to linux looking for information on cvs this is the best step by step guide to setting up cvs on redhat URL l NUMBER t gr it is for a particular ibm ide but the setup and testing of the server is the same for any cvs client both the using linux and linux in a nutshell book by oreilly have sections on cvs rcs and both books are a must buy for any linux newbie justin original message from ilug admin URL mailto ilug admin URL on behalf of michael conry sent NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to darragh cc ilug URL subject re ilug newby to linux looking for information on cvs on NUMBER NUMBER thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER darragh wrote hello i am very new to linux and need some help on a utility called cvs as far as i m aware its a similar protocol to ftp i need to use it to download a program from pserver anoncvs URL i am looking for information on how to use it i ll have another look at the man pages but i think i have to set it up before i can download anything cvs is really a very different kind of thing to ftp but the details of that statement are left as an exercise to the reader won t show up my own ignorance that way the application you want is cvsclient there is documentation here URL you might get a quick idea of how it works from here URL where he explains how to get cvs gnuplot the commands are export cvsroot pserver anonymous URL cvs login cvs zNUMBER checkout gnuplot something similar will probably do the job for you i m guessing the following might work export cvsroot pserver anoncvs URL cvs login cvs zNUMBER checkout wNUMBER m michael conry ph NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER web URL key fingerprint NUMBER bNUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcNUMBER aNUMBER cbNUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER NUMBERde NUMBERc irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
quoting kevin lyda kevin dated NUMBER eNUMBER ie suberic net anyone here have experience with windows cvs clients accessing a cvs server securely preferably using ssh of some form putty or cygwin s openssh port and the wincvs client here s something i cobbled together URL cheers i don t like country music but i don t mean to denigrate rick moen those who do and for the people who like country music rick URL denigrate means put down bob newhart irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hello again i tried all the suggestions for the pctel driver and at the end of it everything still goes smoothly until i type make after i get the output from the configure however there were a couple of things i noticed along the way after typing cp configs kernel NUMBER NUMBER config config make oldconfig make dep the NUMBERnd to last line i got back said that the modversions h file was not updated when i looked at this path to the modversions h file it was NUMBER lines and every line started with a mark is it the case that nothing is read on a line after a mark or am i just thinking of another language and so should i delete the at certain places also when i was in the pctel directory and typed make i noticed that a different subdirectory is taken to a different modversions h file inside this other file there s nothing at all and so i moved the modversions h file with NUMBER lines to the empty modversions h file and got a different reply after make the output after i moved the file over mostly looked like this usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux modversions h NUMBER NUMBER linux modules adb ver no such file or directory usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux modversions h NUMBER NUMBER linux modules af_axNUMBER ver no such file or directory usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux modversions h NUMBER NUMBER linux modules af_ipx ver no such file or directory the odd lines being the path and the first half of the other lines are what s written after the in the modversions h file should there be a file at each of these one at each of the NUMBER lines of the file that i d have to compile make it s taken plenty of elbow grease but i m glad it hasn t gone smoothly it s a good learning experience again any help is appreciated thanks eric _____________________________________________________________ email services provided by URL your source for alleycat and trackbike photos submissions welcome _____________________________________________________________ promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email URL by URL URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER eric nichols wrote hello again i tried all the suggestions for the pctel driver and at the end of it everything still goes smoothly until i type make after i get the output from the configure however there were a couple of things i noticed along the way after typing cp configs kernel NUMBER NUMBER config config make oldconfig make dep the NUMBERnd to last line i got back said that the modversions h file was not updated when i looked at this path to the modversions h file it was NUMBER lines and every line started with a mark is it the case that nothing is read on a line after a mark or am i just thinking of another language and so should i delete the at certain places no that is appropriate content for the file i m not a c programmer but i think that these sort of things include blahblah are instructions to the compiler processed by a pre processor in the compile process and include all sorts of symbols functions e g include math h gives you maths type functions since they start with they are ignored in the final compilation regarding the rest of the compile process you need to tell the pctel software to look in the right place for the kernel headers source i recall from your previous mail that there was a flag with kernel includes usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER which could be passed to the configure script with the appropriate directory in place of usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER this might allow you to persuade the code to compile against the correct headers i think this is the right way to proceed alternatively maybe the steps above regarding make dep and so forth should have been performed in the directory where the make process is looking for modversions h co i don t think it is a good idea keep moving files into the directory as you describe below first of all you will move modversions h which you have done then you would have to move all those ver files after that there will almost certainly be a need for further header h files this could be quickly done but is probably bad those files don t really belong there for what it s worth i think you are very close to a successful compilation m also when i was in the pctel directory and typed make i noticed that a different subdirectory is taken to a different modversions h file inside this other file there s nothing at all and so i moved the modversions h file with NUMBER lines to the empty modversions h file and got a different reply after make the output after i moved the file over mostly looked like this usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux modversions h NUMBER NUMBER linux modules adb ver no such file or directory usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux modversions h NUMBER NUMBER linux modules af_axNUMBER ver no such file or directory usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux modversions h NUMBER NUMBER linux modules af_ipx ver no such file or directory the odd lines being the path and the first half of the other lines are what s written after the in the modversions h file should there be a file at each of these one at each of the NUMBER lines of the file that i d have to compile make michael conry ph NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER web URL key fingerprint NUMBER bNUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcNUMBER aNUMBER cbNUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER NUMBERde NUMBERc irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hi all i have a question which is a bit tricky and was wondering of anyone has come across this problem before or could point me in the right direction i am involved in porting a sco unix application to linux and we have encountered a problem with the way semaphores are being handled the application uses mulitple processes to run application code with the main process known as the bsh which controls all i o be it screen or file i o syncronisation is handled via semaphores in certain circumstances the main process and the application child process seem to lock up both waiting for the syncronisation semaphores to change state i have attached ddd to the processes and it seems that the semaphore code is doing the correct things for syncronisation but the processes stay stuck in the semop system call i have also noticed that if i introduce a slight delay between changing semaphore states the problem goes away but this causes our entire application to run really sloooww lol is there anything weird or different with the standard implemenation of semaphores on modern linux that could cause a semop to fail to pick up the change in state in a semaphore immediately setting sem_flg ipc_nowait and checking for errno eagain and recalling semop if the semop call fails NUMBER also fixes the problem but again system performance goes down the toilet both the parent controlling process run as the same uid and the parent creates the semaphores with permissions NUMBER any pointers would be appreciated rgds colin nevin __________________________________________________ do you yahoo everything you ll ever need on one web page from news and sport to email and music charts URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 take a look at URL andrey mailto andr URL bm does anyone do this already or is this a new concept or has this concept bm been discussed before and abandoned for some reasons that i don t yet know bm i use the physical architecture of a basic web application as an example in bm this post but this concept could of course be applied to most server bm systems it would allow for the hardware separation of volatile and bm non volatile disk images it would be analogous to performing nightly bm ghosting operations only it would be more efficient and involve less or bm no downtime bm thanks for any opinions bm ben ,0
on tue oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER elias wrote so given the apparent commonality of these occurances companies appear to be losing a large amount of money by mailing these tiny checks out why can t they simply credit the account in question on the next bill granted if an account has been closed there is no such option i ve been waiting for hettinga to regale us with one of his well tuned micro cash bearer settlement geodesic finance rants bob you are so disappointing me njl ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ned jackson lovely wrote i ve been waiting for hettinga to regale us with one of his well tuned micro cash bearer settlement geodesic finance rants bob you are so disappointing me how about if i include it by reference URL blue in the face rah begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER iqa awubpamxlNUMBERpxhNUMBERjfNUMBERohaeqjovwcgwljdfcrlc NUMBERohgtx yNUMBERvvrl NUMBERianNUMBERia eefqcwcvykjwv NUMBERjpa ppdsf vncj end pgp signature r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 URL working this loose knit fashion is what keeps the mekons so exciting langford said when the mekons was our whole day job it became a drudgery he said sometimes we get bogged down and trapped but we re usually pretty greasy enough to bite our leg off squirm free and run off ,0
the academic discipline of software engineering was launched at a conference sponsored by nato at garmisch germany in october NUMBER intriguingly the term software engineering was chosen to be deliberately provocative why can t software be developed with the same rigor used by other engineering disciplines the proceedings of this conference are now available online at URL also don t miss the pictures of attendees including many significant contributors to the field of software engineering URL x html jim ,0
 URL the disappearing alliance by dale franks NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for over two generations the countries of western europe have been our closest allies we stood beside each other through the darkest days of the cold war as partners in the north atlantic treaty organization we celebrated with them over the fall of the soviet empire and the liberation of eastern europe from the yoke of communism tragically a generation from now we may be bitter adversaries europe has increasingly fallen under the spell of a political ideology that hudson institute scholar john fonte has termed progressive transnationalism the key doctrines of this form of post communist progressivism contain some fairly pernicious ideas among these are the deconstruction of nationalism the promotion of post nationalist ideas of citizenship i e a global citizenry a redefinition of democracy and the pooling of national sovereignty into multinational groups such as the united nations the european union itself a multinational organization built through the pooling of sovereignty by european nations is post democratic while there is a european parliament the eu s power resides mainly in the unelected european commission ec and its unelected president who face few limits to their power instead of a limited consensual form of government where elected representatives promulgate constitutional laws the eu has an appointed oligarchic executive along with a large attendant bureaucracy whose orders are not constitutionally limited in any real sense moreover the eu has been unwilling to accept the democratically expressed wishes of the people themselves when those wishes conflict with the results desired by the eu s political elite both the ec and the european court of justice regularly overturn the national laws of democratically elected eu member governments this is a step backward in europe s political development european criticism of america is on the rise and the european list of complaints about america is a long and growing one they dislike the fact that our republican system of government is not based on proportional representation they hate the fact that our citizens own guns they despise the fact that we execute murderers they resent the fact that our economy is so large and that americans consume so much they also resent and fear the fact that we have the ability to project american power anywhere in the world on august NUMBER NUMBER adrian hamilton wrote a column in the uk s independent newspaper in which he identified the us as a rogue state who should be restrained perhaps by a european military invasion followed by a decade or so of occupation fortunately the article is satirical not because it exaggerates the way european progressives view the us but rather because the impotence of european military power makes the idea of an invasion of the us literally fantastic at least for now despite the tongue in cheek nature of this editorial however the fact remains that america is increasingly viewed this way by the european intellectual and political elite the europeans actively desire a world where the united nations keeps in check the activities of sovereign states because they have built such a system in europe they feel it s valid for the rest of the world america however is the biggest obstacle to such a system the europeans cannot understand why america places a higher value on the ethos of national sovereignty and limited consensual and constitutional government than it does on compliance with international norms they view all departures from such norms as aberrant because the un member states all have an equal vote in prescribing international norms they assume that since the process is ostensibly legitimate the results must be as well the trouble with this idea of course is that it gives the views of non democratic authoritarian states the same weight as those of free democratic societies it sanctifies the process with no regard to the actual results thus they are unable to make any moral distinction between the us refusals to join in a given international effort because we wish to preserve the liberty of our citizens and similar refusals from iraq because its dictator wishes to maintain his firm grip on power our repeated references to the us constitution and our unwillingness to bypass its provisions to comply with international norms are incomprehensible to them they assume therefore that our refusal is based on arrogance rather than on a commitment to constitutional rights none of this bodes well for the future of euro american friendship or cooperation if the europeans continue to reject traditional liberalism in favor of the new progressivism their criticism of the us will rise while their tolerance of our differences will fall obviously in such a political atmosphere the opportunities for conflict will inevitably increase that thought is frightening enough even more frightening however is the thought that such a conflict might be averted by our own acceptance of the new ideology of transnational progressivism r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 ok lets break this down into the kevin smith worldview taht equate everything with star wars eu is the republic empire and we are what the trade federation stretch this out and it could be seen that the un is the jedi complete with faling powers work with me folks ,0
so given the apparent commonality of these occurances companies appear to be losing a large amount of money by mailing these tiny checks out why can t they simply credit the account in question on the next bill granted if an account has been closed there is no such option elias christopher haun wrote eheh i ll do yah one better i have a check some place i just moved or i d go scan it in for NUMBER NUMBER from time warner cable ,0
 from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of r a hettinga subject the disappearing alliance URL the disappearing alliance by dale franks NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER obviously in such a political atmosphere the opportunities for conflict will inevitably increase given current trends particularly in demographics such conflict won t be military europe wouldn t stand a chance now and things are getting worse in a hurry they are sol not to mention that when push comes to shove they wouldn t stand united that thought is frightening enough even more frightening however is the thought that such a conflict might be averted by our own acceptance of the new ideology of transnational progressivism now that is a scary thought ,0
i can t believe i actually read a laugh out loud funny profile of the fcc commissioner fer crissakes so the following article comes recommended a fine explanation of michael powell s extraordinary equivocation on the other hand i can also agree with werbach s werblog entry rohit a trip to f c c world nicholas lemann has a piece in the new yorker this week about fcc chairman michael powell it s one of the first articles i ve seen that captures some of powell s real personality and the way he s viewed in washington unfortunately lemann ends by endorsing conventional political wisdom after describing how powell isn t really a fire breathing ideological conservative he concludes that in essence powell favors the inumbent local bell telephone companies while a democratic fcc would favor new entrants i know that s not how powell sees the world and though i disagree with him on many issues i think he s right to resist the old dichotomy the telecom collapse should be a humbling experience for anyone who went through it the disaster wasn t the regulators fault as some conservatives argue but something clearly went horribly wrong and policy makers should learn from that experience contrary to lemann s speculation the upstart carriers won t be successful in a gore administration because it s too late virtually all of them are dead and wall street has turned off the capital tap for the foreseeable future some may survive but as small players rather than world dominators the battle between clecs and rbocs that lemann so astutely parodies is old news the next important battle in telecom will be between those who want to stay within the traditional boxes and those who use different models entirely that s why open broadband networks and open spectrum are so important whatever the regulatory environment there is going to be consolidation in telecom those left out in that consolidation will face increasing pressure to create new pipes into the home or slowly die the victors in the consolidation game will cut back on innovation and raise prices which will create further pressure for alternatives lemann is right that policy making looks much drier and more ambiguous on the ground than through the lens of history but he s wrong in thinking that telecom s future will be something like its past friday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am comments NUMBER URL the chairman by nicholas lemann he s the other powell and no one is sure what he s up to new yorker october NUMBER NUMBER last year my middle son in eighth grade and encountering his first fairly serious american history course indignantly reported that the whole subject was incomprehensible i was shocked what about gettysburg and the declaration of independence and the selma to montgomery march just look at my textbook he said and when i did i saw his point his class had got up to the eighteen forties what i expected was a big beefing up of the roles of sacagawea and crispus attucks and in deed there was some of that but the main difference between my son s text and that of my own childhood was that somebody had made the disastrous decision to devote most of it to what had actually happened in american history there were pages and pages on tariffs and bank charters and reciprocal trade agreements i skipped ahead past the civil war hoping for easier going only to encounter currency floats and the regulation of freight rates only a few decades into the twentieth century did it become possible to see the federal government s main function as responding to dramatic crises and launching crusades for social justice instead of attempting to referee competing claims from economic interests even now if one were to reveal what really goes on behind the pretty speeches and the sanctimonious hearings in washington what you d find is thousands of lawyers and lobbyists madly vying for advantage not so much over the public as over each other agribusiness versus real estate banks versus insurance companies and so on the arena in which this competition mainly takes place is regulatory agencies and commissions and the congressional committees that supervise them it s an insider s game less because the players are secretive than because the public and the press encouraged by the players who speak in jargon can t get themselves interested one corner of washington might be called f c c world for the federal communications commission f c c world has perhaps five thousand denizens they work at the commission itself at the house and senate commerce committees and at the washington offices of the companies that the commission regulates they read communications daily subscription price NUMBER NUMBER a year and every year around christmastime they grumblingly attend the chairman s dinner at a washington hotel where the high point of the evening is a scripted supposedly self deprecating comedy routine by the commission s chairman of all the federal agencies and commissions the f c c is the one that americans ought to be most interested in after all it is involved with a business sector that accounts for about fifteen per cent of the american economy as well as important aspects of daily life telephone and television and radio and newspapers and the internet and right now f c c world is in if not a crisis at least a very soapy lather because a good portion of what the angry public thinks of as the corporate scandals concerns the economic collapse of companies regulated by the f c c qwest worldcom adelphia and global crossing among others are or were part of f c c world aol time warner is part of f c c world jack grubman the former salomon smith barney analyst who seems to have succeeded kenneth lay of enron as the embodiment of the corporate scandals is part of f c c world in the past two years companies belonging to f c c world have lost trillions of dollars in stock market valuation and have collectively served as a dead weight pulling down the entire stock market this year an alarmed and acerbic anonymous memorandum about the state of the f c c has been circulating widely within f c c world it evokes f c c world s feverish mood the f c c is fiddling while rome burns and suggests why nobody besides residents of f c c world has thought of the commission in connection with the corporate scandals the sentence i just quoted is followed by this explanation the ilecs appear likely to enter all l d markets within twelve months while losing virtually no residential customers to attackers since NUMBER and suffering about NUMBER market share loss in business lines to clecs it s a lot easier to think about evil c e o s than to decipher that even in good times f c c world pays obsessive attention to the commission s chairman in bad times the attention becomes especially intense and when the chairman is a celebrity f c c world devotes itself to full time chairman watching the current chairman michael powell is a celebrity at least by government official standards because he is the only son of colin powell the secretary of state unlike his father he has a kind of mesmerizing ambiguity which generates enormous and at times apoplectically toned speculation about who he really is and what he s really up to powell is young to be the head of a federal agency he is thirty nine and genially charming everybody likes him before becoming chairman he was for three years one of the f c c s five commissioners not only is he fluent in the f c c s incomprehensible patois he has a clintonesque love of the arcane details of communications policy he s always saying that he s an avid moderate and yet he has a rage inciting quality one of his predecessors as chairman reed hundt quoted in forbes compared powell to herbert hoover mark cooper of the consumer federation of america calls him radical and extreme just as often as he s accused of being a right wing ideologue powell gets accused of being paralytically cautious it ain t about singing kum ba yah around the campfire another former chairman william kennard says you have to have an answer one day last spring powell testifying before a senate subcommittee delivered an anodyne opening statement and the subcommittee s chairman ernest hollings of south carolina berated him you don t care about these regulations hollings said you don t care about the law or what congress sets down that s the fundamental that s the misgiving i have of your administration over there it just is amazing to me you just pell mell down the road and seem to not care at all i think you d be a wonderful executive vice president of a chamber of commerce but not a chairman of a regulatory commission at the government level are you happy in your job extremely powell said with an amiable smile one cannot understand powell s maddening effect at least on democrats and liberal activists without understanding not just the stated purpose of the commission he chairs but also its real purpose the f c c was created by congress in NUMBER but it existed in prototype well before the new deal because it performs a function that is one of the classic easy cases for government intervention in the private economy making sure that broadcasters stick to their assigned spots on the airwaves its other original function was preventing american telephone telegraph the national monopoly phone company from treating its customers unfairly over the decades as f c c world grew up into a comfortable well established place the f c c segued into the role of industrial supervision its real purpose it was supposed to manage the competition among communications companies so that it didn t become too bloody by artfully deciding who would be allowed to enter what line of business in addition to looking out for the public s interest the commission more specifically protected the interests of members of congress many of whom regard the media companies in their districts as the single most terrifying category of interest group you can cross the local bank president and live to tell the tale but not the local broadcaster according to an oft told f c c world anecdote president clinton once blocked an attempt to allow television stations to buy daily newspapers in the same city because he said if the so and so who owned the anti clinton little rock democrat gazette had owned the leading tv station in little rock too clinton would never have become president f c c world may have been con tentious but it was settled too because all the reasonably powerful players had created secure economic niches for themselves then in the nineteen eighties the successful breakup of a t t by far the biggest and most important company the commission regulated deposited a thick additional sediment of self confidence onto the consciousness of f c c world a generation ago for most americans there was one local phone company one long distance company and one company that manufactured telephones which customers were not permitted to own and they were all the same company it was illegal to plug any device into a phone line by the mid nineteen nineties there were a dozen economically viable local phone companies a handful of national long distance companies competing to offer customers the lowest price and best service and stores everywhere selling telephone equipment from many manufacturers and millions of americans had a fax machine and a modem operating over the telephone lines a t t had argued for years that it was a natural monopoly requiring protection from economic competition and total control over its lines so much for that argument over the same period the f c c had assisted in the birth of cable television and cell phones and the internet it was the dream of federal agency success come true consumers vastly better served and the industry much bigger and more prosperous too the next big step was supposed to be the telecommunications act of NUMBER one of those massive endlessly lobbied over pieces of legislation which most people outside f c c world probably felt it was safe to ignore although the telecom act sailed under the rhetorical banner of modernization and deregulation its essence was a grand interest group bargain in which the local phone companies known to headline writers as baby bells and to f c c world as arbocks the pronounced version of rbocs or regional bell operating companies would be permitted to offer long distance service in exchange for letting the long distance companies and smaller new phone companies use their lines to compete for customers consumers would win because for the first time they would get the benefits of competition in local service while getting even more competition than they already had in long distance but the politics and economics of the telecom act which was shepherded through congress by vice president gore were just as important democrats saw the act as helping to reposition them as the technology party the party that brought the internet into every home created hundreds of thousands of jobs in new companies and not least set off an investment boom whose beneficiaries might become the party s new contributor base clinton s slogans about the information superhighway and building a bridge to the twenty first century which like all clinton slogans artfully sent different messages to different constituencies were the rhetorical correlates of the telecom act and gore s cruise to the presidency was supposed to be powered substantially by the act s success the f c c had a crucial role in all this the arbocks are rich aggressive politically powerful and generally republican though like all important interest groups they work with both parties they immediately filed lawsuits which wound up tying the hands of their new competitors in the local phone market for more than three years through rule making enforcement and litigation the f c c then headed by reed hundt who was gore s classmate at st albans was supposed to keep the arbocks in their cages so that not only long distance companies like a t t and mci worldcom but also a whole category of new companies see lecks the pronounced version of clecs or competitive local exchange carriers could emerge this entailed the regulatory equivalent of hand to hand combat the see leck is supposed to have access to the arbock s switching equipment the arbock won t give the seeleck a key to the room where it s kept so the see leck asks the f c c to rule that the arbock has to give it the key partly because hundt assured the see lecks and other new companies that he would protect them and partly because of the generally booming condition of the economy then investment capital flooded into the see lecks companies with names like winstar covad and teligent and into other telecommunications companies even not obviously related technology companies like cisco systems benefitted from the telecom boom demand for their products was supposed to come from the see lecks and other new players there would be no conflict between the interests of the new telecom companies and those of consumers as one of hundt s former lieutenants told me reed used to joke that my job was to make sure that all prices went down and all stocks went up the years following the passage of the telecom act were the peak of the boom wall street had its blood up and that meant not just more startups but also more mergers of existing communications companies time warner and aol decided to throw in together and a t t and comcast and so on surely worldcom and the other telecom bad guys believed that their self dealing stock overselling and creative accounting would go unnoticed because the market was so undiscriminating by the time the outcome of the NUMBER presidential election had been determined the telecom crash was well under way nonetheless the chairmanship of the f c c remained one of the best jobs in terms of influence and visibility available to a career government regulator three republicans emerged as candidates powell who was a commissioner harold furchtgott roth the farthest to the right commissioner and patrick wood the head of the texas public utility commission and as such a george w bush guy in texas however wood had crossed the most powerful person in the arbock camp edward whitacre the c e o of s b c communications which is headquartered in san antonio this meant that the arbocks didn t want wood as head of the f c c because he might be too pro see leck wood is now the head of the federal energy regulatory commission michael powell had to signal the arbocks that he wasn t as threatening as wood while also signalling the conservative movement that he was only negligibly farther to the left than furchtgott roth powell did this deftly for example in december of NUMBER he appeared before a conservative group called the progress freedom foundation and gave a very michael powell speech whimsical intellectual and free associative biblical history joseph schumpeter moore s law that began by making fun of the idea that the f c c should try to keep new telecom companies alive in the wake of the NUMBER act the f c c is often cast as the grinch who stole christmas powell said like the whos down in who ville who feast on who pudding and rare who roast beast the communications industry was preparing to feast on the deregulatory fruits it believed would inevitably sprout from the act s fertile soil but this feast the f c c grinch did not like in the least so it is thought thus powell was indicating that if he became chairman he didn t expect to administer first aid to the see lecks as part of the job he was appointed to the chairmanship on the first day of the bush administration twenty months into the administration nearly all the see lecks are dead or dying nearly all long distance companies not just worldcom are in serious trouble cable companies have lost half their value satellite companies are staggering the crash has had an automatically concentrating effect because as new companies die the existing companies market share increases and if the existing companies are in good shape financially they have the opportunity to pick up damaged companies at bargain prices during the bush administration as the financial carnage in communications has worsened the communications industry has moved in the direction of more concentration if the bells wind up protecting their regional monopolies in local phone service and if they also merge the country will be on its way to having a national duopoly in local service verizon in the east and s b c in the west and these companies could dominate long distance as well because of the poor health of the long distance companies the cable business also seems close to having two dominant national companies aol time warner and comcast unlike the phone companies they don t have to share their wiring with other companies and so can more fully control what material they allow to enter people s homes as part of the complicated bargaining with interest groups that led to the NUMBER telecom act the limits on concentration in the radio industry were significantly loosened and in the past six years the number of radio station owners in the united states has been cut by twenty five per cent today a large portion of local and national radio news programming is supplied by a single company westwood one a subsidiary of viacom in this situation many democrats and liberals think the f c c should be hyperactive the superhero of government regulation springing to the rescue of both consumers and the communications industry it should try to breathe life into the see lecks and other new companies it should disallow mergers maintain ownership limits and otherwise restrain the forces of concentration it should use the government s money and muscle to get new technology especially fast internet connections into the homes of people who can t afford it at current market prices an analogy that a lot of people in f c c world make is between telecom and the middle east the clinton people blame the bloodshed on the bush people because they disengaged when they came into office and the bush people blame it on the clinton people because they raised too many expectations and stirred too many passions but michael powell s f c c has not been hyperactive powell has been conducting internal policy reviews and reforming the management of the f c c and waiting for the federal courts and the congress to send him signals in mid september powell finally initiated a formal review of the f c c s limits on media concentration this doesn t mean he has been inactive rather he has been active in a way that further infuriates his critics in a manner that smoothly blends the genial and the provocative he muses about whether the fundamental premises of f c c world really make sense while giving the impression that he s having the time of his life as chairman at his first press conference when he was asked what he was going to do about the digital divide that is economic inequality in access to the internet he said you know i think there is a mercedes divide i d like to have one and i can t afford one at the national cable telecommunications association convention in chicago powell following a troupe of tumblers to the stage interrupted his walk to the podium to perform a somersault not long ago i went to see powell in his office at the f c c until NUMBER when the commission moved to a new building in southwest washington near the city s open air fish market f c c world was at the western edge of downtown where everybody would encounter everybody else at a few familiar restaurants and bars today the f c c building looks like the office of a mortgage company in a suburban office park even the chairman s suite though large is beige carpeted and fluorescent powell is a bulky man who wears gold rimmed glasses and walks with a pronounced limp the result of injuries he suffered in a jeep accident in germany in NUMBER when he was an army officer because of the accident he left the army and went to law school where he became entranced with conservative ideas about regulation particularly the idea that the government rather than trying to correct the flaws of the market before the fact prophylactically as he likes to say should wait till the flaws manifest themselves and then use antitrust litigation to fix them he worked briefly at a corporate law firm and then became a protégé of joel klein the head of the antitrust division of the clinton justice department and the man who led the government s legal case against microsoft he was recently appointed chancellor of the new york public school system it testifies to powell s political skill that he is probably the only high official in the bush administration who not only served in the clinton administration but also maintains close ties to bush s nemesis senator john mccain of arizona one of the things about powell that annoy people is his enduring love of law school it s sort of like a law school study session over there one democratic former commissioner said as if to confirm the charge powell when i arrived introduced me to four law students summer interns at the commission whom he d invited to sit in i began by asking powell whether he agreed with the founding assumptions of the f c c for example could private companies have apportioned the airwaves among themselves without the government being involved i think we ll never know powell said i don t think it s an automatically bad idea the way some people will argue land is probably the best analogue we don t seize all the land in the united states and say the government will issue licenses to use land if my neighbor puts a fence one foot onto my property line there s a whole body of law about what i can do about that including whether i can tear it down if a wireless company was interfering with another wireless company it s a similar proposition there are scholars who argue indeed the famous ronald coase treatise that won the nobel prize was about this that spectrum policy is lunacy the market could work this out in the kinds of ways that we re accustomed to talking to powell was fun unlike most high government officials he doesn t seem to be invested in appearing dignified or commanding he slumps in his chair and fiddles with his tie and riffs he speaks in ironic air quotes he s like your libertarian friend in college who enjoyed staying up all night asking impertinent rhetorical questions about aspects of life that everybody else takes for granted but that he sees as sentimental or illogical after a while i asked him whether he thought his predecessors excitement about the NUMBER telecommunications act had been excessive i would start with a caveat powell said look i can t fault those judgments in and of themselves given the time and what people thought they were not the only ones who were hysterical about the opportunities but frankly i ve always been a little bit critical first of all anybody who works with the act knows that it doesn t come anywhere close to matching the hyperbole that was associated with it by the president on down about the kinds of things it s going to open up i mean i don t know what provisions are the information superhighway provisions or what provisions are so digitally oriented or some of the things that were a big part of the theatre of its introduction when one starts reading the details one searches often in vain for these provisions but nonetheless there was a rising dot com excitement and an internet excitement and people thought this was historic legislation and it certainly was but we were sucking helium out of balloons with the kinds of expectations that were being bandied around and this is before the economy or the market even gets in trouble it was a dramatically exaggerated expectation by the leadership of the commission by politicians by the market itself by companies themselves it was a gold rush and led to some very detrimental business decisions ones that government encouraged by its policies frankly everybody wanted to see numbers go up on the board powell began imitating an imagined true believer in the telecom act i want to see ten competitors twenty competitors i want to see thirty per cent market share fifty per cent market share i want the bells to bleed then we ll know we ve succeeded now powell returned to being powell i think that expectation was astonishingly unrealistic in the short term they wanted to see it while they re there we were starting to get drunk on the juice we were drinking and the market was getting drunk on the juice we were drinking there s no question we went too soon too fast too many companies took on too much debt too fast before the market really had a product or a business model how could the telecom act have been handled better we could have chosen policies that were less hellbent on a single objective and were slightly more balanced and put more economic discipline in the system powell said money chased what seemed like government promised opportunity the problem with that is there s a morning after and we re in it and the problem is there is no short fix for this problem this debt is going to take years to bring down to a realistic level in some ways for short term gain we paid a price in long term stability powell went on to say that it might have turned out differently if there had been a more reasonable level of investment no we wouldn t have every home in america with competitive choice yet but we don t anyway i don t think it s the remonopolization of telephone service i don t buy that the bells will prosper but did anybody believe they wouldn t the part of the story that didn t materialize was that people thought so would mci worldcom and sprint other local phone companies he added hadn t materialized as viable businesses either and they never might everybody s always saying the regulators did this and this and this but candidly the story s quite the opposite i think the regulators bent over backward for six years to give them a chance conditions don t get that good except once every thirty years and it didn t happen so whatever the reason we re looking at a worldcom that s teetering we re looking at a long distance business that has had a rapid decline in its revenue base a t t is breaking itself up sprint has struggled could the f c c have done anything to make the long distance companies stronger at the f c c i think i ll just be blunt my political answer yes there s all kinds of things we can do at the margin to try to help but i can t find thirty billion dollars for worldcom somewhere i can t mitigate the impacts of an accounting scandal and an s e c investigation were i king it would be wonderful but i don t have those kinds of levers i don t know whether anybody does at some point companies are expected to run themselves in a way that keeps them from dying powell couldn t have made it much clearer that he doesn t think it s his responsibility to do anything about the telecom crash he has demonstrated his sure political touch by making accommodationist gestures in august for example five months after disbanding the f c c s accounting safeguards division powell announced that he was appointing a committee to study accounting standards in the communications industry but that shows that powell is better at riding out the storm than say harvey pitt his counterpart at the securities and exchange commission and does not mean that he plans to try to shore up the telecom industry i asked powell if it would bother him if for most people only one company provided cable television and only one provided local phone service yes he said it concerns us that there s one of each of those things but let s not diminish the importance of there being one of each of those things that still is a nice suite of communications capabilities even if they aren t direct analogues of each other anyway powell said before long the phone companies will be able to provide video service over their lines and the cable companies will provide data service over their lines so there will be more choice so yeah we have this anxiety we have one of everything the question is does it stay that way the concentration of ownership and the concentrated control of information did not appear to trouble powell either he said that people confuse bigness which brings many benefits with concentration which distorts markets if this were just economics it s easy if you were to say to me mike just worry about economic concentration we know how to do that the econometrics of antitrust i can tell you when a market s too concentrated and prices are going to rise the problem is other dimensions like political ideological sometimes emotional take the question of if everybody s controlling what you see the assumption there is that somehow there ll be this viewpoint a monolithic viewpoint pushed on you by your media and you won t get diversity i think that s a possibility i don t think it s nearly the possibility that s ascribed to it sometimes powell explained sometimes when we see very pointed political or parochial programming it gets attacked as unfair i see some of the same people who claim they want diversity go crazy when rush limbaugh exists they love diversity but somehow we should run howard stern off the planet if it has a point of view then it becomes accused of bias and then we have policies like here his tone went from ironic to sarcastic the fairness doctrine which seems to me like the antithesis of what i thought those people cared about so when somebody is pointed and opinionated we do all this stuff in the name of journalistic fairness and integrity or whatever to make them balance it out f c c world abounds in theories about michael powell one is that he can t make up his mind about how to address the crisis in the industries he regulates so he talks and talks and talks flamboyantly about the market in order to buy himself time another is that he s carrying water for the arbocks and the big cable companies another is that he is planning to run for the senate from virginia or to be appointed attorney general in a second bush term and doesn t want to do anything at the f c c that would diminish his chances another is that he s waiting to move until there is more consensus on some course of action so that he doesn t wind up going first and getting caught in the crossfire between the arbocks and the cable companies and the television networks in f c c world this is known as the powell doctrine of telecom after colin powell s idea that the united states should never commit itself militarily without a clear objective overwhelming force and an exit strategy and another is that he actually believes what he says and thinks the telecommunications crash is natural healthy and irreversible and more concentration would be just fine this is why elections matter reed hundt who isn t happy about what has become of his telecom act told me it s true that the f c c much more than say the war in afghanistan is a case in which a gore administration would be acting quite differently from the bush administration consumers might have noticed the difference by now but there s no question whether communications companies have noticed the arbocks are doing better against their internal rivals than they would have done if gore had won next election they ll help the party that helped them if the republicans win policy will tilt further in the arbocks favor if they lose perhaps the arbocks rivals the long distance companies and the telecommunications upstarts with their friends now in power will stage a comeback america s present is not unrecognizably different from america s past ,0
 URL broadband s killer application the one activity that dwarfs all others is online gaming which NUMBER percent of south koreans under NUMBER play according to one recent study critics say the burgeoning industry is creating millions of zombified addicts who are turning on and tuning into computer games and dropping out of school and traditional group activities becoming uncommunicative and even violent because of the electronic games they play game players don t have normal social relationships anymore said kim hyun soo a NUMBER year old psychiatrist who is chairman of the net addiction treatment center one of many groups that have sprung up to cope with internet game addiction young people are losing the ability to relate to others except through games people who become addicted are prone to violence even when they are not playing jim ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER stephen d williams wrote date wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i actually thought of this kind of active chat at aol in NUMBER i think bringing up ads based on what was being discussed and other features for a while the vp of dev now still cto i think was really hot on the idea and they discussed patenting it then they lost interest probably a good thing note date header can i borrow your time machine pretty please udhay udhay shankar n udhay pobox com www digeratus com ,0
hi all anyone ever try connecting at NUMBERbps in linux i ve got a usr NUMBERk faxmodem which is meant to connect to another same modem and i have to connect at this speed due to the nt port settings on the remote side but the modem handshake always fails at this speed the modem handshake works at slightly higher speeds NUMBERbps to NUMBERbps but that is no good for tx rx ing data to the remote server as it insists at talking at the speed of treacle NUMBERbps note minicom fails to handshake at NUMBERbps but hyperterm in windows worked first time any ideas baud NUMBER NUMBER data bits even parity i am doing a atzNUMBER to reset the modem then i send this init string at fNUMBEReNUMBERvNUMBERqNUMBERxNUMBERyNUMBERsNUMBER NUMBER aNUMBER bNUMBER cNUMBER dNUMBER hNUMBER iNUMBER kNUMBER mNUMBER nNUMBER pNUMBER rNUMBER sNUMBER uNUMBER yNUMBER which is most of the defaults usr said to set sNUMBER NUMBER disables v NUMBER set sNUMBER NUMBER disable v NUMBER xNUMBER but the sNUMBER NUMBER just makes the handshake lockup instead of just giving up btw this is a bank s system i am connecting to so reconfiguring their modems may be difficult colin colin nevin software engineer merit solutions ltd dublin NUMBER goatstown cross dublin NUMBER printed using NUMBER recycled electrons irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
colin nevin wrote hi all the modem handshake works at slightly higher speeds NUMBERbps to NUMBERbps but that is no good for tx rx ing data to the remote server as it insists at talking at the speed of treacle NUMBERbps it sounds like the flow control is set to xon xoff rather than hardware baud NUMBER NUMBER data bits even parity unusual NUMBER n NUMBER is more common i am doing a atzNUMBER to reset the modem then i send this init string at fNUMBEReNUMBERvNUMBERqNUMBERxNUMBERyNUMBERsNUMBER NUMBER aNUMBER bNUMBER cNUMBER dNUMBER hNUMBER iNUMBER kNUMBER mNUMBER nNUMBER pNUMBER rNUMBER sNUMBER uNUMBER yNUMBER i think that the at command for hardware flow control is eNUMBER though this may vary from modem to modem regards zzzzcc john mccormac hack watch news zzzzcc URL NUMBER viewmount voice NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER waterford bbs fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ireland URL begin pgp public key block version NUMBER NUMBER mqcnazaypnsaaaeeapgthanyitutnawfNUMBERbuNUMBERmfNUMBERpcblqxdeuhfNUMBERxtNUMBERuol od z zocaxNUMBERkaNUMBERljbjuqywNUMBERhlqvtvNUMBERkcellrpNUMBERhpqmkNUMBERypowNUMBERfqwlptjof zmcxevdNUMBERqz tretNUMBERvs kirqryvkoaxojhqizurNUMBERgNUMBERovbnidpkeoNUMBERkkulzNUMBERxkuxcgzsulkkvaaux tcjkbNUMBERhuieNUMBERjqNUMBERybwfjidxqbwnjqghhyNUMBERtNUMBERyxrjacNUMBERjbNUMBER tbjqbwnjqghhyNUMBERtNUMBER yxrjacNUMBERjbNUMBER stfy end pgp public key block irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
zzzz URL justin mason writes dev fd NUMBER is stdin filedescriptor NUMBER looks like the ps file wants to know its filename but it s being read from stdin that s my guess i don t think so it should be getting a stream of ps from stdin but it s not the printing spooling system is executing gs but somehow failing to provide it with input try tweaking the scripts to run gs with the ps file on the command line instead of as that might clarify that the later part of the system works but i suspect the problem is earlier b brendan halpin dept of government and society limerick university ireland tel w NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER f NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER h NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER room fNUMBER NUMBER x NUMBER mailto brendan halpin ul ie URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 i have translated the article in full see end of post i think that i ve done a far better job than the google translation at least it s readable now any corrections appreciated stuff in s is my and others additions to the debate my apologies if i ve paraphrased anybody incorrectly i will be glad to retract if anyone is miffed the article makes four main points NUMBER absence of critical clauses in this case the idea is that the licence is invalid because it doesn t specify under what country s law the gpl is governed NUMBER specification in english only that for the end user as opposed to businesses the gpl doesn t apply because it s not written in french NUMBER arbitary licence change the point here is that under french law the author can change the terms of the licence arbitarily this is because any granting of rights by an author must be clearly delimited in terms of how long where to whom dates and times in the absence of such limitations the original author has the right to change his software back to closed on a whim david neary makes the point that the copyright holder automatically retains the right to change the licence scott replies it simply requires authorisation from all copyright holders that s not my understanding french law allows a gpl type licence _on condition_ that the specific conditions of the granting of such rights are clear if they are not there is nothing to stop the original author taking back his work the lawyers see this correctly imho as a weakness in the gpl NUMBER hidden defects roughly this clause means that the author s is are liable for any defects if the consumer is not an it engineer so if linux blows up and data is lost then the authors are liable ciaran johnson says that m oft and others have similar clauses the point here is that they are _all_ invalid just that this one affects the gpl also niall o broinn makes the point that it is not a sale but rather a service leasing arrangement and that s why it doesn t come under this point i would suggest that the whole thrust of this article has been to see software sales even if no money changes hands as governed very much by consumer law in france anyway rick moen makes the point that it is not a sale but rather a granting of rights which are not default see the bit about even the granting of rights by an author having to be explicitly specified under french law the fact that two ip lawyers in france think that the gpl is covered as a sale make me feel that there is a de facto sale and a de facto contract NUMBER roughly there may be other reasons under french law why the gpl may be invalid whole article freedom a is worth more than these imperfect licences specialised lawyers look at the gpl lawyer cyril rojinsky duly appointed to the court and the jurist vincent grynbaum both specialised in the area of intellectual property examine the free licences and in particular the gpl they have published their study in the review proprietes intellectuelles intellectual property NUMBER and their conclusion is grim their approach is interesting the problem for them is not to know whether freedom is valid under french law for them the question is a moot point but rather they asked themselves about the form and the content of the text of free licences and in particular the gpl the problem is not free programmes but rather the licence contracts of free programmes absence of critical clauses the authors tell us that first of all the reference to copyright is not legally sufficient in the framework of international contracts which is the case of licence contracts for programmes developed and spread via the internet the idea of copyright can basically include differences from one country to another this is why under international contracts it is necessary to specify to which laws one is referring french law american c the authors only found three public licences which were correctly formulated on this point qpl ibm public licence and the mozilla public licence specification in the english language next the authors remind us that at least in france no clause in a contract may be contrary to french law NUMBER however it turns out that a licence such as the gpl is contrary to french law in several respects firstly it is written in english and the fsf doesn t officially approve translations the toubon law obliges this sort of contract to be written in french including for businesses since the notion of user applies not only to consumers but also to businesses professionals c contacted by the editors of linuxfrench lawyer cyril rojinsky declared that as far as business is concerned the toubon law is probably doomed to change since it is in contradiction of european directives on the subject but whatever about that the problem is still valid for individuals and while waiting for it french law to change french companies have to deal with it since it is the law of the land a programme under the gpl can suddenly change licence another problem much more serious is that according to french law the author of a free programme can at any time invoke the invalidity of the licence for this software by simply changing the licence in effect the law of intellectual property stipulates that the granting of rights by the author is subordinate to the condition that each of these granted rights be the object of a distinct clause in the granting act i e the licence and that the granting of any such rights be delimited with respect to its scope and its grantees and also with respect to its location i e where such rights may be excersised and duration of any such grants NUMBER this is not the case of the gpl nor of other free licences briefly this means that in france or elsewhere if the author is french that which is under the gpl could revert to proprietary from one day to the next the problem of the guarantee hidden defects an other very serious flaw is that of the guarantee the gpl licences and others show that the software is delivered without guarantee you are going to immediately reply that commercical programmes carry the same clause in their licence contracts and this is correct however whatever is written in a licence contract one cannot free oneself from the guarantee from hidden defects since it is imposed in the civil code this concept is poorly understood by the layman it protects the buyer whoever it may be individual or business since it specifies the civil code and not consumer protection law against hidden defects deliberate or made in good faith by the seller for example if one buys a pair of socks in a sale and the shop has a notice specifying that sale items are neither refunded nor exchanged and on arriving home you notice that one of the socks has a hole in it several scenarios are possible you could have checked the socks before purchase the flaw is deemed obvious and you can sing for your money you couldn t check the socks they were packaged for example and in this case despite the notice neither refund nor exchange you may invoke hidden defect and have them changed or obtain a refund it s up to you personally i have already invoked in shops the hidden defect clause and it always worked well shopkeepers are always very cooperative if you quote a couple of words of the civil code the concept of hidden defect is rather wide it is necessary that you hadn t the possibility of discovering the defect before buying the product and then according to the civil code that you wouldn t have bought it at that price if you had known about the defect the third case which is much rarer is if you are able to show that the vendor had knowledge of the defect hidden but didn t inform you in this case not only does he have to reimburse the product but all expenses incurred by the sale metro tickets to go to the shop the fuse which blew when you plugged it in c this idea of hidden defect applies to all products including programmes this was made abundantly clear by the authorities and the courts surrounding yNUMBERk this is particularly inconvenient for free programmes since a site which offers a linux distro for download is supposed to provide a guarantee against hidden flaws linuxfrench asked cyril rojinsky if in the case of a free programme one could speak about a hidden defect since the source code was available he replied actually concerning the guarantee the question of obvious defect will arise this analyis will be different depending on whether the person who downloads the distribution is an it professional or not opensource has this advantage over the proprietary programme it protects the distributor against a guarantee of hidden defect insofar as the buy is an it person but for distribution to the public at large the problem remains the same roughly speaking lawyer cyril rojinsky said it himself this study is far from being exhaustive and many other areas could be explored during this interview we asked ourselves for example about the fragility of the gpl clause which forbids linking source code under the gpl with proprietary code in effect the laws of intellectual property give the right to the user to modify a programme with the intention of permitting interoperability with another programme if for that i need to link with a proprietary library communication protocol device driver i may consider as null and void this clause of the gpl the conclusion of this study is a wake up call for the community freedom merits more than these shoddy licences which should be modified before court cases over them proliferate and put at risk the undeniable originality of this effort NUMBER une publication de l institut de recherche en propriété intellectuelle noNUMBER juillet NUMBER NUMBER une telle clause de contrat qui est opposée à ce que dit la loi française est qualifiée en terme juridique de clause réputée non écrite c est à dire qu on fait comme si cette clause n était pas écrite dans le contrat c est pour cela par exemple que vous pouvez signer un bail pour un appartement qui stipule que les enfants sont interdits dans l immeuble et envisager sans inquiétude d avoir quand même un enfant en effet le code civil stipule que le devoir d un locataire d un appartement doit se comporter en bon père de famille NUMBER article lNUMBER NUMBER ___________________________________________________________ do you yahoo une adresse URL gratuite et en français yahoo mail URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
quoting breathnach proinnsias dublin breatpro exchange ie ml com is there any reliable way to calculate your connection speed if you don t trust what the modem reports do a wget of a file of known length in a script that runs date before and after or equivalent be aware that speed between you and your upstream link is one thing speed through countless congested routers to a faraway location may be quite another remember that hardware level compression is a factor the file you wget will probably be precompressed in the area of the slightly more exotic be aware that different traffic may have higher priority and thus more available bandwidth at various points in the transit to from you and that some traffic may go via different paths coming vs going be aware that raw bulk transfer speed may not be the only thing that matters depending on what you re doing the modem s connection latency might matter and this differs widely between modems it matters more for interactive sessions e g ssh remote logins where each keystroke is echoed from remote cheers send a policeman and have it arrested rick moen otto von bismarck when asked what he rick URL would do if the british army landed irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER john moylan wrote hmm speaking of cheap machines etc has anyone tried this sort of thing URL or more importantly has anyone had any positive negative experiences with the via mini itx boards via cNUMBER processors my laptop has a via cNUMBER processor i use debian with a self compiled NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER kernel and have had absolutely no problems with the chip at all quite the opposite in fact i had to compile for NUMBER in order for NUMBERd acceleration to work the kernel has an option specifically for the via cNUMBER but i assume that was a kernel problem rather than a hardware problem trevor johnston irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
quoting paul linehan plinehan yahoo com the point here is that under french law the author can change the terms of the licence arbitarily this is because any granting of rights by an author must be clearly delimited in terms of how long where to whom dates and times the gpl and similar licences are explicitly permanent grants of rights attached to an instance of his work the other stuff mentioned concerns contract law e g the required element of privity etc in the absence of such limitations the original author has the right to change his software back to closed on a whim no the author has the right to issue _additional_ instances under a different licence such as a proprietary closed sic licence rick moen makes the point that it is not a sale but rather a granting of rights which are not default see the bit about even the granting of rights by an author having to be explicitly specified under french law the analysis here and elsewhere concerns contract law this isn t contract law this isn t the first time copyright attorneys have stumbled on this subject i m sure it won t be the last cheers the front line of defense against such sophisticated rick moen viruses is a continually evolving computer operating rick URL system that attracts the efforts of eager software developers bill gates irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
matthias haase wrote the bytecode interpreter is disabled on rhNUMBER defined at line NUMBER in the specfile of the srpm right you are the srpm includes a patch to enable it but then the specfile defaults to not applying that patch i saw the former but missed the later egad what a convoluted maze sorry for the misinformation _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
any one out their have any rpms for the new kvim that was just released that d be suitable for rhNUMBER NUMBER the website URL mentions some experimental rpms for suse connectiva slackware but none for mandrake m in NUMBER days the odyssey begins URL mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
laurent papier wrote on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote once upon a time roi wrote mplayer works with dga if i am root and works with xNUMBER and always worked with sdl but not now with redhat NUMBER now it gives black screen window and play the music of the movie strange because as i said in an earlier post it works for me maybe you re missing the sdl_image or something it also works nicely for me laurent roi roi roi rpm qa grep i sdl sdl_image devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER xmame sdl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER sdl_mixer NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sdl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sdl devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sdl_mixer devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sdl_net NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sdl_net devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sdl_image NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER seems i got all packages i need it worked on redhat NUMBER NUMBER i did upgrade not reinstall so packages shouldn t make a problem roi _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on tue oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote two new things today NUMBER i ve had to install a red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER server because of an old proprietary ivr software that doesn t work on newer releases so i ve recompiled both the latest apt and openssh packages for it and they are now available with a complete os updates freshrpms apt repository at URL for those who might be interested oh neat i have similiar thing in my hands though it might be migratable if i had the time to try i ve been using another NUMBER x repository though URL anyone tried dist upgrade from NUMBER x to NUMBER theoretically it should drop in some compat s notably libc and upgrade the rest and after a reboot and maybe a new kernel and grub but i have long before put those to vNUMBER s run just fine haven t had a spare machine to try it on myself though _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias haase wrote the recompile of the sprm failed for me with rpm build errors file not found by glob var tmp freetype NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER root usr lib libttf so file not found var tmp freetype NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER root usr lib libttf so weird i had no problems at all rebuilding from the srpm with specfile modified to enable the bytecode interpreter the check files test warns that usr share aclocal freetypeNUMBER mNUMBER was not included in any package but other then that it s all perfectly clean _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote i ve put up a new red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER build of nessus here URL it s NUMBER untested although the build should be ok the new menu was added but some configuration files may be better with new or different defaults feedback is very welcome it works very nice would you consider upgrading it to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER released only a few hours after your build thanks on tue oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER renaud deraison wrote i m pleased to announce the availability of nessus NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which should be one of the last versions of nessus NUMBER NUMBER x hopefully as i will soon open a new unstable tree and start to break things again what is new in nessus NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in comparison to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER changes by michael slifcak michael slifcak at guardent com added bugtraq cross reference in the plugins added support for bid in nessusd this has yet to be done on the client side changes by axel nennker axel nennker at t systems com fixed the xml and html outputs fixed array issues in a couple of plugins changes by michel arboi arboi at bigfoot com find_service now detects services protected by tcp wrappers or acl find_service detects gnuserv ptyexecvp replaced by nessus_popen changes by renaud deraison deraison at cvs nessus org fixed a bug which may make nasl interpret backquoted strings n and r received from the network problem noted by pavel kankovsky nmap_wrapper nes calls _exit instead of exit solved the lack of bpf s on free open netbsd and macosx by sharing _one_ among all the nessus processes as a result nessus s ping is much more effective on these platforms bugfix in plug_set_key which would eventually make some scripts take too long when writing in the kb plugins of family act_settings are run after plugins of family act_scanners replaced the implementation of mdNUMBER which was used when openssl is disabled by the one from rsa the old one would not work on a big endian host fixed plugins build issues on macos x the nessus client compiles and links against gtk NUMBER NUMBER of course it will be horrible and unstable as the gtk team does not care about backward compatibility these two modifications solve the problems of nmap hanging under freebsd special thanks go to michael slifcak whose work on nessus during the last months have been truly appreciated even if they have not always been as underlined as they should have been michael thanks again availability nessus NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER is available at URL axel thimm URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
since libdvdcss NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i have been unable to play dvds using ogle xine vlc or mplayer they all show a scrambled picture with very choppy audio when i run xine i see tons of these in the console libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error audio_out inserting NUMBER NUMBER frames to fill a gap of NUMBER pts metronom audio jump libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error has anyone seen this before and know how to fix it or should i file a bug report thanks for your help jon jon URL administrator tgpsolutions URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 i posted about this last week and i m still stumped apt get is just not working for me and i can t figure out what the problem is i ve tried removing the apt rpms making sure to remove any traces left behind etc apt var state apt var cache apt and still i get couldn t find package xmms mpNUMBER when running apt get install xmms mpNUMBER any clues here s a log of a fresh try root canarsie tmp rpm e apt apt devel root canarsie tmp rm rf etc apt var cache apt var state apt root canarsie tmp rpm ivh apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm apt devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm warning apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm vNUMBER dsa signature nokey key id eNUMBERdNUMBERb preparing NUMBER NUMBER apt NUMBER NUMBER apt devel NUMBER root canarsie tmp apt get update ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os pkglist NUMBERkb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os release NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates pkglist NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates release NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms pkglist NUMBER NUMBERkb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms release NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os srclist NUMBERkb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates srclist NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms srclist NUMBER NUMBERkb fetched NUMBERkb in NUMBERs NUMBERkb s reading package lists done root canarsie tmp apt get install xmms mpNUMBER reading package lists done building dependency tree done e couldn t find package xmms mpNUMBER root canarsie tmp apt cache search xmms root canarsie tmp beats me stevek steve kann chief engineer NUMBER NUMBERth ave NUMBER ny NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL collaborate interact learn the box said requires windows NUMBER nt or better so i installed linux _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote i ve never heard of any cd rom or dvd rom drive having problems with dma although there probably is since red hat decided to default disabling it a few releases back heh i get to see bad cdrom problems all the time mostly when vendors buy crap cables to try to save NUMBER NUMBER each but there are chipsets and drives with known dma issues as well normally even if you try to enable dma and your device doesn t support it it simply don t be able to make the change and that s it the problem iirc is with crappy hardware that is supposed to support dma but doesn t work as expected when it s enabled maybe chris could confirm this usually if you enable dma on a cdrom that can t handle it gracefully you won t be able to read data off it relably and that s about it no end_of_the_world problems and easily fixed i guess i ll settle for the dev dvd link change as described and putting the dma tip in the description my biggest beef with automatically setting dev dvd is that i always seem to have a cd burner and a dvd drive or dvd burner in the same box and i usually have the dvd as the second drive dev cdromNUMBER in kudzu speak i agree that the description is the best place for the tip unless someone can come up with a way to probe cd dvd drives to divulge their largest supported media size without loading ide scsi or having that media currently in the drive chris kloiber _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER panu matilainen wrote on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER jesse keating wrote on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote i ve never heard of any cd rom or dvd rom drive having problems with dma although there probably is since red hat decided to default disabling it a few releases back when i worked as a pc repair tech for a computer store chain i did run across quite a few dvd drives that would lock up if dma was enabled it s more of a chipset drive problem than a drive by itself and my ibm intellistation would lock up instantly now this is actually quite funny if dma was enabled for the cd rom and you tried to access a cd with joliet extensions otherwise it worked just fine with dma enabled odd did i certify that one what s the NUMBER digit ibm model number and which version of red hat were you running chris kloiber _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote hi there two new things today NUMBER i ve had to install a red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER server because of an old proprietary ivr software that doesn t work on newer releases so i ve recompiled both the latest apt and openssh packages for it and they are now available with a complete os updates freshrpms apt repository at URL for those who might be interested gack did you try NUMBER NUMBER with the compat glibc first or does it require an antique kernel chris kloiber _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ben liblit liblit eecs berkeley edu wrote rpm build errors file not found by glob var tmp freetype NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER root usr lib libttf so file not found var tmp freetype NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER root usr lib libttf so weird i had no problems at all rebuilding from the srpm with specfile modified to enable the bytecode interpreter the check files test warns that usr share aclocal freetypeNUMBER mNUMBER was not included in any package but other then that it s all perfectly clean hi ben it seems the rh freetype package should be repacked see for this URL please can you atach and send your sucessfully rebuild of the rh freetype rpm with the bytecode enabled to me regards from germany matthias _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i wrote the bytecode interpreter may improve non antialiased rendering but only at the expense of making a mess of antialiased rendering then again perhaps the particular font i m using just has bad bytecodes that font is quicktype ii grabbed off my windows partition where it was installed by i have no idea which application anybody else experimenting with bytecode enabled freetype presumably with different fonts do you find the same bad antialiased rendering that i found or do other fonts work well _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time chris wrote on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote hi there two new things today NUMBER i ve had to install a red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER server because of an old proprietary ivr software that doesn t work on newer releases so i ve recompiled both the latest apt and openssh packages for it and they are now available with a complete os updates freshrpms apt repository at URL for those who might be interested gack did you try NUMBER NUMBER with the compat glibc first or does it require an antique kernel it requires a NUMBER NUMBER kernel plus antique just about everything real crap matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ben liblit liblit eecs berkeley edu wrote ick perhaps this is why red hat turned the bytecode interpreter off it may improve non antialiased rendering but only at the expense of making a mess of antialiased rendering this may come down to a matter of personal aesthetics but for my part i m going back to red hat s standard packages with the bytecode interpreter turned off yes confirmed but for my part i m using mostly non antialiased fonts and they are true ugly without the bytecode interpreter enabled remember my stupid request about your rpm regards from germany matthias _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi brian fahrlander kilroy kamakiriad com wrote what s it take to ensure we re covered against this kind of childish moronic microsoft era problems well i am checking the packet signatures while building the apt tree not very pretty not very fast but it works nonetheless did anyone ever play with this URL r _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time brian wrote ok it s now time to work out the pgp securing of apt repository traffic i ve never gotten anything but sitename whatever will not be authenticated until running redhat NUMBER NUMBER when i get something about having no key for various files i don t think gpg signing my repositories will help anything as it will just ensure that my passphrase was typed to confirm the mdNUMBER signatures of all pgklists and srclists basically you ll then just be sure that it s me who generated the files and this will of course prevent automating the process of updating the apt repository when red hat updates show up in red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER though the warnings about no key appear until you import the right gpg public keys directly with rpm for example rpm import usr share doc apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER rpm gpg key this will import my key which is used to sign all URL packages hopefully it is possible to the tell rpm to install only packages who verify against an imported gpg key this for me would be the optimal way to ensure integrity with the way things curently work matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote i don t think gpg signing my repositories will help anything as it will just ensure that my passphrase was typed to confirm the mdNUMBER signatures of all pgklists and srclists basically you ll then just be sure that it s me who generated the files and this will of course prevent automating the process of updating the apt repository when red hat updates show up isn t there a packager key that s concealed inside the rpm things have changed a bit since i used to work with em but i thought there was some internal number that must be compared to be correct or presumably return an error in red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER though the warnings about no key appear until you import the right gpg public keys directly with rpm for example rpm import usr share doc apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER rpm gpg key this will import my key which is used to sign all URL packages hey cool wether it protects me or not i feel better about it hopefully it is possible to the tell rpm to install only packages who verify against an imported gpg key this for me would be the optimal way to ensure integrity with the way things curently work yeah surely there s a flag for that there is for everything else aye brian fahrländer linux zealot conservative and technomad evansville in my voyage URL icq NUMBER angegangen schlange hüften sein es ganz rüber jetzt bügel innen fest weil es eine lange süsse fahrt ist _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
looks and sounds a hell of a lot like clare s cat violence a tall tail or is it a prowling panther URL security cameras at the gardiner house filmed the cat the plumstead panther has been spotted just yards from the scene of a sighting made three weeks ago but this time it was caught on camera steve gardiner NUMBER claims to have spotted the large cat in his garden in upton road plumstead in the sixth reported sighting in woolwich and bexley in just four weeks mr gardiner told news shopper he watched the big cat as it walked alongside the house at about NUMBER NUMBERam on wednesday september NUMBER while his security cameras captured it on film the father of four described the black cat as about NUMBERft long and two and a half foot high with a large body he said it prowled past the patio doors moving with all the mannerisms of a hunter it looked at me calmly before moving on the bricklayer told how his work colleagues let him know news shopper had been following the big cat story so he decided to call our offices with news of the sighting his wife karen NUMBER later checked the tape which had captured grainy images of the large cat prowling through their garden she said i feel sorry for it not living in its natural habitat i d hate for it to get hurt mr gardiner told how he is convinced of the cat s existence saying how their usually quiet NUMBER year old dog barks at nothing in the garden but barked that morning he warned i don t think these cats are dangerous but if cornered they might jump you sightings of the large black cat are being reported all over the plumstead common and shooters hill as well at the bexley area if you have seen the big cat call news shopper on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tuesday NUMBERth october NUMBER _________________________________________________________________ send and receive hotmail on your mobile device URL yahoo groups sponsor sell a home for top URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL tuesday NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt NUMBER NUMBER uk quiz know your cockney rhyming slang cockney rhyming slang is alive and well with new terms being invented all the time according to the new oxford dictionary of rhyming slang being published this week but do you know a raquel welch belch from a billie piper windscreen wiper yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL an investigation has been launched after punch bags on sale in greenwich were found to be stuffed with incontinence pads and bandages trading standards officers working for greenwich council were alerted to the situation after a bryan punch bag purchased in argos in charlton road charlton was found to be full of bandages also stuffed inside the piece of sporting equipment was a letter from a woman in fife stating how she felt quite disgusted about the bag and asking for the filling to be tested the unfortunate shopper had bought his first bag at argos in lewisham high street but had returned it because on investigation of a leak he was horrified to discover it was filled with incontinence pads so far officers have purchased two of the punch bags only to find they contain incontinence pads and strips of shredded duvet cabinet member for public services councillor angela cornforth said this is one of the strangest stories i have every heard our officers are in the process of investigating and will no doubt discover why the bags contain such unusual contents NUMBER NUMBER tuesday NUMBERth october NUMBER _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL yahoo groups sponsor plan to sell a home URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
on sat NUMBER aug NUMBER adam l beberg wrote and yet still noone is out there creating _public domain_ content is there even one person out there can can even begin to talk without being a complete hypocrite and no the open source people cant talk either the gpl aint even close i know i cant talk all my music is in the public domain there are others URL ,0
 if the creator didnt say you could have it without paying it s theft so simple hell that s even in all the major holy books wow i ve got a great idea i ll hire a skywriter to write you can t look at this without paying then lock up everybody who looked at it and didn t pay it can t fail jesus is on my side URL ,0
lucas gonze senders should vary the recipient list to include non targets like party officials and to exclude targets enough to give them plausible deniability which means the sender has a list of who the true targets are and who the fake targets are and scripts for mixing these on the receiving side my email client distinguishes between messages that are read and messages that are not i like to mark or save messages that are particularly interresting or important to me and even if i make a point to delete suspicious material immediately upon reading it even that might leave an interesting kind of trace on my machine sorry but i don t buy the argument that spam protects people who want to distribute or see material the government disapproves _________________________________________________________________ msn photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos URL URL ,0
russell turpin wrote on the receiving side my email client distinguishes between messages that are read and messages that are not i like to mark or save messages that are particularly interresting or important to me and even if i make a point to delete suspicious material immediately upon reading it even that might leave an interesting kind of trace on my machine you choose to have your email client do that you don t have to short of palladium you can do whatever you want with bytes you hold including reading messages and erasing the traces i ll buy a chocolate sundae for anyone who can show otherwise an attacker might be able to verify that you have read a message e g by seeing that you saved and edited a copy but not that you haven t if your email client was compromised you could put a packet sniffer on the line before downloading mail if an attacker installed a packet sniffer sniffer you could run it in a spoofing vm the only exception to the rule that your machine belongs to you is maybe palladium lucas URL ,0
 begin forwarded text date sat NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to r a hettinga rah shipwright com from somebody subject re ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch was re my brain hurts and then there was the one from prairie home companion q why is a viola larger than a violin a it just looks that way because a violin player s head is bigger begin forwarded text status ro delivered to fork URL from joseph s barrera iii joe barrera org organization rose garden funeral of sores user agent mutt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to flatware or road kill fork URL subject re ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch was re my brain hurts sender fork admin URL date wed NUMBER jul NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER there are so many good musician jokes a couple of my favorites q what s the difference between a viola and a violin a a viola burns longer q what s the definition of a minor second a two oboes playing in unison joe URL end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups george carlin URL ,0
 from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of adam l beberg if the creator didnt say you could have it without paying it s theft so simple hell that s even in all the major holy books ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the ten commandments it seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit too in particular there was a claim that the commandment on stealing was actually specifically about man stealing selling a free man into slavery certainly the us southerners were particularly sensitive to the term man stealer in a way i didn t understand yep i know he said all holy books no i don t know if this site was blowing hot air it just read like someone had done their homework URL ,0
this article from URL has been sent to you by khare URL texas pacific in addition to its multibillion dollar portfolio detailed below actually does invest in promising new companies not just turnarounds it s just that knownow is waaay to small of a part of their NUMBER NUMBERb portfolio so far rohit khare URL texas pacific goes where others fear to spend august NUMBER NUMBER by riva d atlas and edward wong it was one of the first calls david n siegel placed when he became chief executive of the beleaguered us airways last march seeking advice on how to hammer out a leaner and meaner business plan keep his planes flying and renegotiate costly contracts with the unions he flipped through his files and found the number for the texas pacific group an investment firm headed by david bonderman a former civil rights lawyer with a reputation for fixing problem companies mr siegel once a top executive at continental airlines had watched texas pacific s partners turn an investment of NUMBER million in the airline made three years after it filed for bankruptcy in NUMBER into a profit of more than NUMBER million and they had made nearly as much on their stake in america west which filed for bankruptcy in NUMBER that search for advice turned into an offer why not let texas pacific have a role in us airways revival asked richard schifter the texas pacific executive whom mr siegel reached in june mr siegel called mr schifter again and days before us airways announced its plans to file for bankruptcy two weeks ago but after it had negotiated about NUMBER million in concessions with its unions texas pacific based in fort worth and san francisco agreed to kick in NUMBER million as part of a NUMBER million loan to keep the company operating during bankruptcy it also agreed to buy NUMBER million of stock or NUMBER percent of the company and take NUMBER of NUMBER seats on the board if us airways emerges from bankruptcy unless another investor surfaces with a better offer one of the reasons we were interested is few other folks were said james coulter a partner at texas pacific in an interview after the bankruptcy filing there aren t many people around with the stomach or the knowledge to delve into the airline industry texas pacific which manages NUMBER billion thrives by buying businesses no one else wants mr coulter and mr bonderman made their names during the recession of the early NUMBER s with investments in continental and america west the firm s hallmark is to take an active hand in shaping companies sometimes ousting poor managers and tapping its extensive network of contacts for talented replacements now the partners are again looking for trouble in the last year alone texas pacific has announced or completed six acquisitions most in unloved industries like semiconductors reinsurance and airlines just last month it announced plans to buy burger king which has been losing market share for NUMBER NUMBER billion it is also bidding for bankgesellschaft berlin a large and troubled bank the most creative and potentially lucrative of these deals could be texas pacific s acquisition last november of memc electronic materials a semiconductor company for NUMBER yes just NUMBER in cash it will also guarantee a NUMBER million bank loan in the last few years most firms that specialize in leveraged buyouts the use of junk bonds bank loans and other borrowings to buy or take big stakes in companies have been largely inactive falling stock prices have made managements reluctant to sell cheaply companies that are for sale have tangled finances or face a cash squeeze texas pacific is different this is a terrific environment for them said stephen schwarzman chief executive of the blackstone group which also specializes in buyouts mark attanasio a managing director at trust company of the west which has invested with texas pacific said most other buyout firms want to buy companies that are growing you don t see many guys wanting to take on operational fixes like most other buyout firms texas pacific tries to keep its inner workings private its partners rarely grant interviews and its web site is perpetually under construction mr bonderman mr coulter and william price the third founding partner declined to be interviewed for this article mr bonderman NUMBER is known for his rumpled shirts and bright patterned socks he likes argyle socks and they tend to fall down around his ankles said henry miller an investment banker who advises troubled companies early in his career when he was a washington lawyer mr bonderman argued a case in court wearing a brown velvet suit when a texas pacific deal is being negotiated he is known for obsessively staying in touch even when he is trekking in places like pakistan nepal and most recently bhutan whenever i see a long unfamiliar phone number pop up on my caller i d i know it s david calling said one investment banker who often works with mr bonderman mr bonderman made his reputation in the NUMBER s as the chief investment officer for robert bass the texas oilman mr bonderman enriched mr bass a second time by making early bets in industries like cable television and taking stakes in troubled companies like american savings loan which had been seized by the government over nearly a decade mr bonderman s picks earned an average annual return of NUMBER percent for mr bass in NUMBER mr bonderman struck out on his own with mr coulter a former lehman brothers banker who had also worked for mr bass they teamed up later that year with mr price a veteran of ge capital capital and bain company a consulting firm to form texas pacific the three men have complementary skills investment bankers and other deal makers said mr bonderman is the master strategist and mr coulter is good at structuring deals and the detailed management of the firm s purchases mr price often recruits managers and advises on operational issues david is very much the optimist very much the deal maker said greg brenneman a former president of continental jim is very much a counterbalance to david he will sit back and ask the tough questions he will approach investments a little bit more skeptically than david does by the end of the NUMBER s texas pacific was well established in deal making it easily raised NUMBER NUMBER billion from pension funds and other investors in early NUMBER to celebrate their war chest the firm s partners rented san francisco s city hall and hired the b NUMBER s to play at a party but as the stock market began to tumble texas pacific hesitated for a NUMBER month stretch the partners made no deals they checked out some of the biggest corporate blowups including adelphia xerox and global crossing but stayed away finding the prices and the quality of the businesses untenable instead texas pacific began to hastily exit some existing investments taking more than NUMBER billion in profits during that stretch they started to cash out early in the cycle said mario giannini chief executive of hamilton lane a money management firm some of whose clients are texas pacific investors the good times of the late NUMBER s were not ideal for texas pacific it struggled to find downtrodden companies that needed its help but texas pacific did manage to spot a few diamonds in the rough it revived oxford health plans the health maintenance organization that nearly collapsed in the mid NUMBER s almost doubling its money after bringing in new managers and upgrading computer systems in NUMBER it made a NUMBER million investment in ducati motor the italian motorcycle maker whose profits have since more than quadrupled but texas pacific also stumbled usually when it bought at the top of the market texas pacific s NUMBER million investment in the j crew group the clothing retailer for which it paid a steep price of NUMBER times cash flow in NUMBER has been a disappointment so has its NUMBER purchase of bally the shoe maker which has suffered from lower demand for luxury goods texas pacific also lost more than NUMBER million on zilog a semiconductor company and favorite brands a candy maker both of which filed for bankruptcy some of these investments have taken a toll on the firm s performance texas pacific is still selling off holdings in two investment funds it raised over the last decade the first fund a NUMBER million portfolio raised in NUMBER and including investments made through march NUMBER should return more than NUMBER percent according to one texas pacific investor but its second fund NUMBER NUMBER billion raised in NUMBER could return less than half that this investor estimated since the firm had less time to take profits on these investments before the stock market sank but because texas pacific has not sold many of its holdings in the second fund profits on these investments could rebound it is hoping for example that with new management in place j crew will turn around as the economy rebounds in any case one competitor said their returns look pretty good when you consider that some other funds won t return any capital to investors but with the weak economy throwing many companies into trouble texas pacific seems poised to repeat its earlier success the investor said they should do exceptionally well he said texas pacific has a distinct style if not formula it relies on talented self sufficient managers to restructure troubled companies preferring to remain hands off except for surveillance from the boardroom when necessary it replaces managers less than a year after continental emerged from bankruptcy for example mr bonderman watched with frustration as his old friend robert r ferguson the chief executive led it to the edge of another trip to bankruptcy court continental s board where mr bonderman was chairman then brought in gordon m bethune an executive at boeing and in october NUMBER he replaced mr ferguson as chief executive mr bethune quickly did a top to bottom overhaul of the company and is now considered a great turnaround artist of the industry the biggest conflict i ve ever seen was with bob ferguson said clark onstad a former general counsel for the federal aviation administration in describing the thinking of mr bonderman whom he has known since the NUMBER braniff bankruptcy he chose bethune over his longtime friend ferguson because he thought bethune would do a better job at america west texas pacific initiated an even more extensive management overhaul this time the charge was led by mr coulter and mr schifter both directors w douglas parker the current chief executive flew to mr coulter s home in san francisco to interview for the job of chief financial officer they talked for hours and mr parker said the two men quickly realized they had somewhat kindred spirits the board replaced most senior managers at america west except william franke the chief executive who stepped down last september his restructuring plan had made the airline profitable a year and a half before it emerged from bankruptcy in august NUMBER texas pacific owns just NUMBER percent of america west worth about NUMBER NUMBER million but those are controlling shares and the group holds more than NUMBER percent of the votes these are not passive investors nor am i said donald l sturm a denver businessman who serves on continental s board with mr bonderman and mr price you re active your money is at stake your reputation is at stake after overseeing managers who worked successfully with unions at continental and america west texas pacific has a good reputation with labor that was one reason us airways was interested in a texas pacific investment said chris chiames a spokesman for the airline mr siegel wanted an investor who would be as labor friendly as possible mr chiames said but us airways can still entertain other bids this fall and marvin davis the billionaire investor from los angeles has expressed interest texas pacific s investment in burger king made with goldman sachs and bain capital was announced after two years of discussions among texas pacific s partners and the chain s franchisees even before the company which had been owned by diageo the liquor company was put up for sale said julian josephson chairman of the national franchisee association which represents most burger king franchisees we liked what they had to say about the human component of the businesses they buy mr josephson said many other owners he added are dismissive of labor at burger king texas pacific will also be working with an executive it knows burger king s chief executive is john dasburg the former chief executive of northwest airlines who met mr bonderman and his partners when northwest bought out their stake in continental in NUMBER unlike most buyout firms texas pacific remains enamored with the technology industry despite the failure of so many start ups the last two years it has focused on the semiconductor industry which like the airline industry is highly cyclical so far though results have been mixed the firm s NUMBER acquisition of the paradyne corporation which makes equipment for high speed internet connections has been a huge success texas pacific split it in two and took both parts public in the late NUMBER s selling most of its stakes for NUMBER times its investment but a much larger investment its NUMBER million acquisition of zilog the chip maker in NUMBER was made just before the economic crisis in asia caused chip prices to plummet zilog filed for bankruptcy last year texas pacific is still hoping for a turnaround at a third company on semiconductor which it acquired for NUMBER NUMBER billion three years ago it invested NUMBER million more last year its latest gamble on the industry the NUMBER deal for memc may prove the most lucrative the cost of mailing the payment to e on based in d sseldorf germany was actually more than the acquisition one executive close to the deal said texas pacific and its partners in the deal trust company of the west and leonard green partners agreed to guarantee a NUMBER million revolving line of credit texas pacific also assumed NUMBER million worth of debt most of which it swapped for more stock in the company they did a good job of timing the acquisition said nabeel gareeb the company s chief executive who noted that in the last quarter memc reported its first profit since the fourth quarter of NUMBER but texas pacific s interest in airlines is clearly sizable besides its involvement in continental america west and us airways the company plans to buy gate gourmet the catering business of the bankrupt swissair group two years ago texas pacific started a web based discount ticket service called hotwire it put up most of the NUMBER million in seed money then persuaded six airlines to invest with it said karl peterson the chief executive hotwire instead of asking consumers to bid on tickets as priceline does shows the cheapest ticket on its web site but does not reveal the exact flight and travel time until after the sale the contraction of the new economy has undoubtedly hurt hotwire which is privately owned mr peterson said that the company was still unprofitable but that texas pacific remains committed to it last spring mr peterson met mr bonderman in aspen to talk about hotwire and to go snowboarding mr bonderman seemed perfectly willing to accompany hotwire down the steep internet chute but he does have his limits on risk mr peterson discovered before going down the mountain mr bonderman strapped on a helmet URL how to advertise for information on advertising in e mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with the new york times on the web please contact onlinesales URL or visit our online media kit at URL for general information about URL write to help URL copyright NUMBER the new york times company URL ,0
remember i didn t say it was necessarily a good source just that it looked good the site was URL my memory of what they said was accurate i do not have the competence to defend what they said james tauber s response indicates a breadth of knowledge i can t match original message from james tauber mailto jtauber URL sent sunday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to johnhall evergo net fork URL subject re a biblical digression on sat NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER john hall johnhall evergo net said ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the ten commandments it seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit too by meanings have evolved do you or they mean that the hebrew words have changed meaning or that our understanding of the hebrew words have changed or do they posit a pre mosaic form of the laws that had evolved by time of the pentateuch in particular there was a claim that the commandment on stealing was actually specifically about man stealing selling a free man into slavery this seems bogus to me a quick check of the text indicates the the hebrew word in question is ganav which elsewhere in the pentateuch eg gen NUMBER NUMBER is used to mean steal silver and gold amongst other things in july NUMBER i made the following comment in response to a similar claim about the real meaning of one of the ten commandments the translations since cause problems at each successive remove we have the original language versions though so this is not an issue i m sure most everyone is familiar with the argument that the meaning of the commandment is thou shalt not murder rather than kill this has nothing to do with successive translations it is based on our knowledge of the meaning of the hebrew word ratsach most modern translations i ve seen translate it murder but elsewhere the word is used of an animal killing a human something for which most english speakers wouldn t use the word murder URL james james tauber jtauber URL URL ,0
on sat NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER john hall johnhall evergo net said ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the ten commandments it seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit too by meanings have evolved do you or they mean that the hebrew words have changed meaning or that our understanding of the hebrew words have changed or do they posit a pre mosaic form of the laws that had evolved by time of the pentateuch in particular there was a claim that the commandment on stealing was actually specifically about man stealing selling a free man into slavery this seems bogus to me a quick check of the text indicates the the hebrew word in question is ganav which elsewhere in the pentateuch eg gen NUMBER NUMBER is used to mean steal silver and gold amongst other things in july NUMBER i made the following comment in response to a similar claim about the real meaning of one of the ten commandments the translations since cause problems at each successive remove we have the original language versions though so this is not an issue i m sure most everyone is familiar with the argument that the meaning of the commandment is thou shalt not murder rather than kill this has nothing to do with successive translations it is based on our knowledge of the meaning of the hebrew word ratsach most modern translations i ve seen translate it murder but elsewhere the word is used of an animal killing a human something for which most english speakers wouldn t use the word murder URL james james tauber jtauber URL URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER thugs of south boston and the revenge of the bandit princess the geodesic economy robert a hettinga sunday august NUMBER NUMBER boston when you think about it one way the fbi winter hill vs patriarcha angiulo cosa nostra fight was just another race war between thugs put crudely and at its most racist the fbi and the winter hill gang were the mostly irish thugs and patriarcha s family were of course the mostly italian thugs think scorsese s upcoming gangs of new york only with counter reformatory overtones hoover s south boston social club putsch starting in the mid NUMBER s was particularly audacious in hindsight the u s federal government actually decided to underwrite a reversal of the prohibition era capture of the nation s rackets by the italians from the irish the fact that the plot was hatched not for new york but for south boston the most irish place in the us only makes even more gigantic the big lie that was told by the fbi to its ostensible political masters about bringing down organized crime there once and for all the result as we all found out wasn t swapping the heroin of italian boston mob violence for irish methadone hoover was posthumously swapping it for oxycontin or crystal methamphetamine or more properly pcp the absolute psychopathology of violence in whitey bulger s crack cocaine era reign of boston s drug markets like the identical fbi sponsored reigns or violent horror by other also rans in cities across the us as a whole went up whole orders of magnitude not mere percentage points as stalin said once quantity has a quality all it s own and make no mistake j edgar hoover was directly responsible that quality of carnage nation wide so yes on paper at least it really was just the swapping of one gang of racist thugs for another and the result was on paper at least business as usual same stuff different century with apparently decent people like mr salvati URL accidently ground on the gears of justice like so much hamburger however to be much more macabre about it that hamburger was greasing if you will an auto de fe only a homicidal lunatic could love a perfectly functioning market legislated out of existence on paper if nowhere else by government fiat and the back door but still elitist will to power of h l mencken s famous bluenoses and busybodies it all starts like all true evil does from the most innocent of beginnings what she couldn t do to alcohol teatotaling mrs grundy then tried to do to anything else she could think of that had a smaller manageable demand the bloody result was like nine more heads of the hydra an increasingly ubiquitous universal prohibition in more markets and for more things as the NUMBERth century wore on every time some recreational drug was found to be addictive or harmful or physically distasteful or carcinogenic or now apparently fattening and then prohibited exactly the same thing happened to its markets that happened to alcohol during the volstead years a larger market than before the prohibition hugely lucrative profits for anyone with the moral stomach to violently scale newly legislated barriers to competition imposed on them by the state increasingly violent attacks by the government on users of those substances and finally the ultimate in evil the kind of evil this country actually fought wars to end increasingly coercive axe handle beatings by our own government of the sacred liberty of the average but now unavoidably law breaking citizenry as ayn rand cynically observed a long time ago you don t need government if nobody s breaking the law in some twisted corollary to parkinson s law governments to survive need more people breaking more laws or they can never justify the money they confiscate at tax time and to bring us back to the point david friedman would probably echo here his father milton s famous observation that government regulations only benefit the regulated sellers in a given market and never the consumer much less the economy as a whole even especially if those sellers are breaking the law as they are in the increasingly ubiquitous prohibition of risky behavior that our government now imposes on us and there absent the apparent grace of mr hoover went mr salvati in fact hayek himself in the road to serfdom couldn t have predicted any better the gory consequences of hoover s blatant imposition for our own good of vietnam era statist power at the neighborhood level and furthermore stalin couldn t have had better useful idiots than hoover did and neither by an absolutely literal extension did whitey bulger after hoover useful idiots on both sides of the congressional aisle idiots who were eating out of hoover s power craven hand for the entire middle of the NUMBERth century and whitey bulger s hand whether they knew it or not until the end of the millennium a time you ll notice which saw the increasingly steady imposition of mob violence and market control from both state and illegal interests way beyond the imaginings of even the most power mad rum running stock kiting movie flopping bureau pumping nazi appeasing irish bostonian little caesar or as for that matter his safely trust funded and now strictly political descendents in terms of actual financial economics think of what happened to mr salvati and the others dead or alive as a transfer price in human lives of the inevitable consequence of macnamara style vietnam era keynesian social cost input output accounting at its most despicable and you can almost begin to fathom the atrocity that was committed by hoover and his co religionists in state economic control in the name of what really was as you ll now agree just a race war between thugs up in boston this shouldn t be a surprise really all race wars are at least fought by thugs though they re usually conceived elsewhere and endorsed at the time by all the right people for all the right reasons as far as the fbi itself goes remember mancur olson s observation that a prince is just a stationary bandit though given his penchant for women s clothing for other men and what s actually obscene for violently hypocritical treatment of people of his own affectional preference i suppose we can call j edgar hoover a bandit princess instead bandit queen of course would be a grievous insult to queens and real bandits everywhere cheers rah URL pagewanted print position top the new york times august NUMBER NUMBER hoover s f b i and the mafia case of bad bedfellows grows by fox butterfield boston aug NUMBER it was march NUMBER in the early days of j edgar hoover s war against the mafia f b i agents say congressional investigators eavesdropped on a conversation in the headquarters of new england s organized crime boss raymond patriarca two gangsters joseph barboza and vincent flemmi wanted mr patriarca s permission to kill a small time hoodlum edward deegan as they were having a problem with him according to an f b i log of the conversation patriarca ultimately furnished this o k the f b i reported and three days later mr deegan turned up dead in an alley shot six times it was an extraordinary situation the federal bureau of investigation had evidence ahead of time that two well known gangsters were planning a murder and that the head of the new england mafia was involved but when indictments in the case were handed down in NUMBER the real killers who also happened to be informers for the f b i were left alone four other men were tried convicted and sentenced to death or life in prison for the murder though they had had nothing to do with it one joseph salvati who spent NUMBER years in prison filed notice with the justice department last week that he planned to sue the f b i for NUMBER million for false imprisonment his is the latest in a series of lawsuits against the f b i the justice department and some f b i agents growing out of the tangled corrupt collaboration between gangsters and the f b i s boston office in its effort to bring down the mob the lawsuits are based on evidence uncovered in the last five years in a judicial hearing and a justice department inquiry but some of the most explosive evidence has only recently come to light including documents detailing conversation in which mr patriarca approved the murder they were released as part of an investigation by the house committee on government reform which has pressured the department into turning over records about the f b i in boston the documents show that officials at f b i headquarters apparently including mr hoover knew as long ago as NUMBER that boston agents were employing killers and gang leaders as informers and were protecting them from prosecution j edgar hoover crossed over the line and became a criminal himself said vincent garo mr salvati s lawyer he allowed a witness to lie to put an innocent man in prison so he could protect one of his informants mr barboza was a crucial witness at trial against mr salvati and may have implicated him because mr salvati owed NUMBER to a loan shark who worked for mr barboza asked about the documents showing that mr hoover knew of mr salvati s innocence when he was put on trial gail marcinkiewicz a spokeswoman for the f b i in boston declined to comment citing the pending litigation a justice department task force is continuing to investigate misconduct in the boston office in one of the first results of the investigation one retired agent john j connolly is awaiting sentencing next month after being convicted of racketeering and obstruction of justice for helping two other mob leaders who were f b i informers james bulger and stephen flemmi vincent and stephen flemmi are brothers the government reform committee led by representative dan burton republican of indiana has uncovered memorandums from the boston office to headquarters in washington revealing the bureau s knowledge that vincent flemmi and mr barboza were involved in killing mr deegan a memorandum a week after the killing described the crime including who fired the first shot then on june NUMBER NUMBER mr hoover s office demanded to know what progress was being made in developing vincent flemmi as an informer in a reply five days later the special agent in charge of the boston office said that mr flemmi was in a hospital recovering from gunshot wounds but because of his connections to mr patriarca potentially could be an excellent informant the agent also informed mr hoover that mr flemmi was known to have killed seven men and from all indications he is going to continue to commit murder nevertheless the agent said the informant s potential outweighs the risk involved a congressional investigator called the exchange chilling the most frightening part is that after being warned about flemmi s murders the director does not even respond the investigator said there is no message not to use a murderer as a government informant the origin of the corruption scandal was public and political pressure on mr hoover to move more forcefully against the growing power of the mafia which he had largely ignored in boston f b i agents recruited mr barboza and mr flemmi and developed close ties to a rival criminal organization the winter hill gang led by mr bulger both sides got what they wanted according to the investigations and the trial of mr connolly the f b i got information that eventually helped destroy the patriarca and angiulo families which controlled organized crime in new england mr bulger s gang was able to take over the rackets in boston sell drugs and even commit murder while the f b i looked the other way one reason the f b i may not have used its information about mr patriarca s involvement in the deegan murder congressional investigators say is that it came from an illegal listening device in his providence r i headquarters the f b i agent who transcribed the conversation made it appear that the information was coming from unnamed informants to disguise the use of the device the investigators say mr salvati a former truck driver now NUMBER had his sentence commuted in NUMBER by gov william f weld last year while he was still on parole his murder conviction was dismissed by a massachusetts state judge after the justice department task force made public documents suggesting his innocence two of the other wrongly convicted men died in prison their survivors have joined the fourth man peter limone in a NUMBER million lawsuit against the justice department mr limone was sentenced to die in the electric chair his life was spared only when massachusetts outlawed the death penalty in NUMBER mr salvati lives in a modest apartment in boston s north end with his wife marie who visited him in prison every week during those NUMBER years each week mr salvati sent her a romantic card which she put on the television set it was mr garo said all they had of each other begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER iqa awubpwmbNUMBERspxhNUMBERjfNUMBERohaeqlNUMBERqgcgxhqNUMBEReeNUMBERuesnvNUMBERuNUMBERwgvmjfNUMBERkNUMBERsNUMBERanNUMBERrb NUMBERsrsgomwjndwiakoehofnhpi oeld end pgp signature r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire URL ,0
 from what i read the rest of it looked quite good so it does seem odd they would make the seemingly incorrect blanket statement about the hebrew for steal one possibility is that the page is a summary of information gathered from a variety of sources of varying qualities james on sun NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER john hall johnhall evergo net said remember i didn t say it was necessarily a good source just that it looked good the site was URL my memory of what they said was accurate i do not have the competence to defend what they said james tauber s response indicates a breadth of knowledge i can t match james tauber jtauber URL URL ,0
does anyone here know if the computational recreations columns from scientific american in the NUMBER s NUMBER s were compiled into a book or two i think i remember martin gardner publishing the earlier mathematical recreations in a couple of hard covers but i m unsure about the later column help ross URL ,0
hire a really talented skywriter to doodle nudie pics in the sky and see if they figure out what to charge you with exactly how far into the sky does the border of your local district reach if the creator didnt say you could have it without paying it s theft so simple hell that s even in all the major holy books wow i ve got a great idea i ll hire a skywriter to write you can t look at this without paying then lock up everybody who looked at it and didn t pay it can t fail jesus is on my side URL ,0
on NUMBER aug NUMBER rosso wrote does anyone here know if the computational recreations columns from scientific american in the NUMBER s NUMBER s were compiled into a book or two i think i remember martin gardner publishing the earlier mathematical recreations in a couple of hard covers but i m unsure about the later column help not sure about mg though i know pretty much everything he penned got into print at one time or another sa needs to do what national geo did and put out thier back issues on cd post mg in the NUMBER s there were the colums by a k dewdney that i dug a bunch put into a book called turing omnibus and then there is of course all the goodens put out by dougy hoffstadler URL ,0
r a hettinga wrote and then there was the one from prairie home companion q why is a viola larger than a violin a it just looks that way because a violin player s head is bigger suggested variation q why does the concertmaster play a smaller violin than the rest of the violinists a it just looks that way because his head is bigger c c c URL ,0
adam l beberg wrote fair use needs to be clarified a bit that s an understatement how else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone that makes things people are supposed to drumroll pay for well you could damn well get a fucking better attitude i practically handed you a job the other week and you pissed all over me i m done helping you you have joined a very exclusive club that up to now has only had my sister as a member joe URL ,0
so last night around NUMBER NUMBERam i m woken up by a loud craaack followed by one of the most dreaded sounds a homeowner ever hears vast quantities of water spilling onto the floor the water is coming from the bathroom the toilet specifically turns out the water cistern on the top of the toilet had cracked down the side and was spilling out all the water so after shutting off the water and mopping up i was left to ponder what are the odds of having mechanical failure of a large rectangular porcelain bowl in the absence of any visible stressors like someone striking it with a sledgehammer we hadn t done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent past just normal use i ve never heard of this happening to anyone i know the guts yeah they fail all the time but the storage bowl never geesh jim URL ,0
on mon NUMBER aug NUMBER jim whitehead wrote a sledgehammer we hadn t done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent past just normal use i ve never heard of this happening to anyone i know the guts yeah they fail all the time but the storage bowl never do you have any tesla nuts inthe hood them hooligans and thier beams URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER adam l beberg wrote if the creator didnt say you could have it without paying it s theft so simple hell that s even in all the major holy books in which world are we talking about that may be true for the first sale but once something is out in the world the creator loses control if i buy a chair you built and then decide to give it away to my neighbor by you re definition he just stole from you fair use needs to be clarified a bit and then i hope they start locking people up how else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone that makes things people are supposed to drumroll pay for why is it that people don t understand that giving stuff away is a perfectly acceptable tactic in capitalist businesses in many places it s called advertising buy one get one free free shipping on any order over NUMBER buy this couch and get a coffee table for free free popcorn with any movie rental free doorprize to the first NUMBER people who enter the author will be signing books for free at such and such bookstore access to free stuff often helps to sell other stuff just because you and the entertainment industry it seems can t be creative enough to come up with a business model to leverage free stuff into paid stuff don t take it out on the rest of us mike URL ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER mike masnick wrote in which world are we talking about that may be true for the first sale but once something is out in the world the creator loses control if i buy a chair you built and then decide to give it away to my neighbor by you re definition he just stole from you there are specific statutory exemptions to the first sale principle of fair use in the us for example audio recordings have such an exemption dating from the early NUMBERs iirc which is why you can t legally be in the business of renting audio cds the creators can control what you do with it after they ve sold it to you certain industries would like to extend similar exemptions to other products there is no theoretical limit to what congress could revoke such privileges on access to free stuff often helps to sell other stuff just because you and the entertainment industry it seems can t be creative enough to come up with a business model to leverage free stuff into paid stuff don t take it out on the rest of us the problem with the entertainment industry is that they engage in business and pricing tactics that make anything microsoft was ever accused of pale in comparison if they can t figure out how to make money doing something they ll actually burn money to make sure no industry outsider can either for all intents and purposes control is more important than maximizing profit as long as they can make a profit they don t need your carrot so they only engage in reasonable business behavior when you are carrying a very large stick and few people swing a stick large enough they are being chronically investigated by the doj for anti trust collusion and similar activities but that is mostly just for show which isn t to say that the entertainment industry won t fall victim to its own stupidity but their ability to do arbitrary and capricious price manipulation with impunity is going to make it a slow decline james rogers jamesr URL URL ,0
actually this is common i ve known a couple of people who have suffered this believe it or not you were lucky you were home rather than on vacation and so you didn t have the intake line flowing onto the floor for two weeks now don t you feel better _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL URL ,0
i think that this and other articles confuse socialism with bureaucracy libertarianism as implemented in north america is not exactly the shining pinnacle of economic efficiency just try starting a telephone company in the us or even worse canada it can take a year or more to get the blessing of our own permit rajs at the fcc puc and ptts or in the decidedly more socialist leaning canada industry canada and the crtc yet despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing as well as regulatory scrutiny by the ftc sec and irs the executives of telecom companies have managed to bilk the investment community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars they finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz laying off hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down so tell me again how are we better off ian on tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm john hall wrote the mystery of capital why capitalism triumphs in the west and fails everywhere else by hernando de soto is something i m reading now my impression is that france is not anywhere near the permit raj nightmare that india is and became nor has its market been closed like india s has but de soto s work is perhaps just as important or more so he hasn t dealt specifically with india but i recall examples from peru philippines and egypt in lima his team took over a year i think it was NUMBER working NUMBER hr days to legally register a NUMBER person company in the philippines getting legal title can take NUMBER years in egypt about NUMBER of the population in cairo lives in places where they are officially illegal india hasn t been helped by its socialism socialism has certainly helped strangle the country in permits but perhaps de soto is right that the real crippling thing is keeping most of the people out of the legal official property system putting most of the people in the property system was something the west only finished about NUMBER years ago or japan did NUMBER years ago it wasn t easy but we live in a society that doesn t even remember we did it original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of robert harley sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re the curse of india s socialism rah quoted indians are not poor because there are too many of them they are poor because there are too many regulations and too much government intervention even today a decade after reforms were begun india s greatest problems arise from a political culture guided by socialist instincts on the one hand and an imbedded legal obligation on the other hand nice theory and all but s india france g and the statements hold just as true yet france is NUMBER in the un s hdi ranking not NUMBER since all parties must stand for socialism no party espouses classical liberalism i m not convinced that that classical liberalism is a good solution for countries in real difficulty see joseph stiglitz nobel for economics on the fmi s failed remedies of course googling on stiglitz fmi only brings up links in spanish and french i guess that variety of spin is non grata in many anglo circles r URL URL URL ,0
i think that this and other articles confuse socialism with bureaucracy libertarianism as implemented in north america is not exactly the shining pinnacle of economic efficiency just try starting a telephone company in the us or even worse canada it can take a year or more to get the blessing of our own permit rajs at the fcc puc and ptts or in the decidedly more socialist leaning canada industry canada and the crtc yet despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing as well as regulatory scrutiny by the ftc sec and irs the executives of telecom companies have managed to bilk the investment community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars they finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz laying off hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down so tell me again how are we better off ian on tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm john hall wrote the mystery of capital why capitalism triumphs in the west and fails everywhere else by hernando de soto is something i m reading now my impression is that france is not anywhere near the permit raj nightmare that india is and became nor has its market been closed like india s has but de soto s work is perhaps just as important or more so he hasn t dealt specifically with india but i recall examples from peru philippines and egypt in lima his team took over a year i think it was NUMBER working NUMBER hr days to legally register a NUMBER person company in the philippines getting legal title can take NUMBER years in egypt about NUMBER of the population in cairo lives in places where they are officially illegal india hasn t been helped by its socialism socialism has certainly helped strangle the country in permits but perhaps de soto is right that the real crippling thing is keeping most of the people out of the legal official property system putting most of the people in the property system was something the west only finished about NUMBER years ago or japan did NUMBER years ago it wasn t easy but we live in a society that doesn t even remember we did it original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of robert harley sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re the curse of india s socialism rah quoted indians are not poor because there are too many of them they are poor because there are too many regulations and too much government intervention even today a decade after reforms were begun india s greatest problems arise from a political culture guided by socialist instincts on the one hand and an imbedded legal obligation on the other hand nice theory and all but s india france g and the statements hold just as true yet france is NUMBER in the un s hdi ranking not NUMBER since all parties must stand for socialism no party espouses classical liberalism i m not convinced that that classical liberalism is a good solution for countries in real difficulty see joseph stiglitz nobel for economics on the fmi s failed remedies of course googling on stiglitz fmi only brings up links in spanish and french i guess that variety of spin is non grata in many anglo circles r URL URL URL ,0
i think that this and other articles confuse socialism with bureaucracy libertarianism as implemented in north america is not exactly the shining pinnacle of economic efficiency just try starting a telephone company in the us or even worse canada it can take a year or more to get the blessing of our own permit rajs at the fcc puc and ptts or in the decidedly more socialist leaning canada industry canada and the crtc yet despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing as well as regulatory scrutiny by the ftc sec and irs the executives of telecom companies have managed to bilk the investment community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars they finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz laying off hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down so tell me again how are we better off ian on tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm john hall wrote the mystery of capital why capitalism triumphs in the west and fails everywhere else by hernando de soto is something i m reading now my impression is that france is not anywhere near the permit raj nightmare that india is and became nor has its market been closed like india s has but de soto s work is perhaps just as important or more so he hasn t dealt specifically with india but i recall examples from peru philippines and egypt in lima his team took over a year i think it was NUMBER working NUMBER hr days to legally register a NUMBER person company in the philippines getting legal title can take NUMBER years in egypt about NUMBER of the population in cairo lives in places where they are officially illegal india hasn t been helped by its socialism socialism has certainly helped strangle the country in permits but perhaps de soto is right that the real crippling thing is keeping most of the people out of the legal official property system putting most of the people in the property system was something the west only finished about NUMBER years ago or japan did NUMBER years ago it wasn t easy but we live in a society that doesn t even remember we did it original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of robert harley sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re the curse of india s socialism rah quoted indians are not poor because there are too many of them they are poor because there are too many regulations and too much government intervention even today a decade after reforms were begun india s greatest problems arise from a political culture guided by socialist instincts on the one hand and an imbedded legal obligation on the other hand nice theory and all but s india france g and the statements hold just as true yet france is NUMBER in the un s hdi ranking not NUMBER since all parties must stand for socialism no party espouses classical liberalism i m not convinced that that classical liberalism is a good solution for countries in real difficulty see joseph stiglitz nobel for economics on the fmi s failed remedies of course googling on stiglitz fmi only brings up links in spanish and french i guess that variety of spin is non grata in many anglo circles r URL URL URL ,0
thx for the thoughts gentlemen yes as someone said i use terms loosely more than cool quality snobs only care about mpixels this is about communications the general public cares about speed not quality how is akamai doing these days not to mention any other qos businesses that come to mind implementation point about hooking to usb wires etc agree NUMBER these implementations are super clunky attachable camera needs to be integrated a la nokia model basically useless until better handsets are released i think adoption ian brought up the fax problem brilliant thing is this is far more personal than faxes so can be justified more easily and marketed in family packs etc but yes the usual rules apply as mms phones have network efx content who cares about content that no one can think of useful content is always the business persons mistake the content is the users communications its anything and everything avg person could easily send half dozen pics to a dozen people a day mainly humorous i d guess who cares if content is trivial in nature picture speaks a thousand words display why are dig camera displays better than cell phones does anyone know who makes these small displays and what the trends are around them misc ramblings i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same thing about NUMBER hour photo processing trivial who needs it i get better resultion elswhere and yet it had great decentralizing impact the plant had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation the digital camera and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion which will put the photo giants to bed and change the world in a meaningful way also sms didn t take off because its easy it took off because it costs less its greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the profitabilty of their sms traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth in reality sms cannibilizes the voice rev s they bought their networks to handle ps it is relatively amusing that one low resolution complaint dropped just after joe watched a cartoon on his television you re right or at least i don t i saw an advert for it on tv last night can t miss futurama and i thought boy that s dumb if i wanted to share pictures with someone i d email them to them where they could see them on a NUMBERx or NUMBERx display instead of rob original message from eugen leitl mailto eugen leitl org sent monday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to rob shavell cc fork URL subject re sprint delivers the next big thing on sun NUMBER aug NUMBER rob shavell wrote down in the tech world than mobile visual communications and yet no one seems to give much of a damn that right now that NUMBER persons can take photos and share them instantly across space this is one of the biggest and the word trivial comes to mind last fundamental changes in human communications will be as big as the browser remote realtime streaming video is neat but sharing pictures you invoke big words rather readily URL ,0
right mike i will agree to disagree but i take your comments to heart my opinion is only that this is one of the last frontiers of communications instant show that we cross easily though you are right as rain on pricing i am mildly amused at the level of skepticism and innatention it is getting my premise is that the world will change in dramatic and unexpected ways once there are a billion eye s which can instantly share what they see amongst each other that doesn t mean that people will stop talking on their phones or that people will spend more time w images than voice just that it is fundamental from news to crime to privacy to dating to family life to bloopers and practical jokes i believe there will be an explosion of images unleashed specifically by cell phone integrated lenses because of their utter ubiquity that dwarfs all pictures taken in the history of photography by orders of magnitude and in short order and yes changes things big time rgds rob original message from mike masnick mailto mike techdirt com sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to rob shavell cc fork URL subject re sprint delivers the next big thing not to keep harping on this but at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rob shavell wrote content who cares about content that no one can think of useful content is always the business persons mistake the content is the users communications its anything and everything avg person could easily send half dozen pics to a dozen people a day mainly humorous i d guess who cares if content is trivial in nature picture speaks a thousand words this does nothing to answer my question i do care about content hell if i could be convinced that people would send stupid pics back and forth all day i d have a different opinion of this i just am not convinced that they will stupid or not while a picture may be worth a thousand words and this is the same argument the guy who works for me made how many people do you know who communicate by pictures sure it sounds nice to say that a picture is such an efficient messaging mechanism but how often do you actually find yourself drawing someone a picture to explain something i don t buy it for most messages text works fine and is the most efficient mechanism for some messages pictures do the job but i would say not nearly as often as words why do you think pictionary and charades and such are games because images are usually not the most efficient way to get a message across misc ramblings i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same thing about NUMBER hour photo processing trivial who needs it i get better resultion elswhere and yet it had great decentralizing impact the plant had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation the digital camera and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion which will put the photo giants to bed and change the world in a meaningful way also sms didn t take off because its easy it took off because it costs less its greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the profitabilty of their sms traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth in reality sms cannibilizes the voice rev s they bought their networks to handle again this is the same argument my colleague made along with you just don t understand kids today and they ll run with this i wasn t saying that mms wouldn t take off because it wasn t high quality or that it wasn t easy i was saying that i couldn t see why people would use it in a way that changed the face of communications i m looking for the compelling reason even if it s a stupid one why people would want to do this sure if they integrate cameras into the phone and the quality improves even only marginally i can certainly see people taking pictures with their cameras and occasionally sending them to other people but mostly i don t see what the benefit is to this over sending them to someone s email address or putting together an online or offline photoalbum i don t think NUMBER hour photos are trivial people want to see their own pics right away and the quality is plenty good enough for snapshots that s one of the main reasons why digital cameras are catching on the instant view part i m guessing your argument is that people not only want instant view but also instant show which is what this service offers i m not convinced that most people want instant show i think people like to package their pictures and show them that s why people put together fancy albums and sit there and force you to go through them while they explain every picture sure occasionally instant show is nice but it s just nice on occasion i still can t see how it becomes a integral messaging method what s the specific benefit of taking a picture and immediately sending it from one phone to another there has to be some benefit even if it s silly if people are going to flock to it i m searching no one has given me a straight answer yet the only really intriguing idea i ve heard about things like mms lately are dan gillmor s assertion that one day in the near future some news event will happen and a bunch of people will snap pictures with their mobile phones from all different angles and those photos tell the real story of what happened before the press even gets there willing to be proven wrong mike ps if the wireless carriers continue to price these services as stupidly as they currently are then mms is never going to catch on URL ,0
justin mason writes so imo it s the corruption that s the problem and corruption regulation and corruption socialism also over population is really a symptom of that without addressing the overpopulation argument the more bureaucracy the more opportunity for corruption if a corporation is corrupt there are generally absent more government intervention alternatives with bureacracy that is more difficult one generally most uproot oneself and move URL ,0
 what is mime mime stands for multipurpose internet mail extensions it is the standard for how to send multipart multimedia and binary data using the world wide internet email system typical uses of mime include sending images audio wordprocessing documents programs or even plain text files when it is important that the mail system does not modify any part of the file mime also allows for labelling message parts so that a recipient or mail program may determine what to do with them how can i read a mime message since mime is only a few years old there are still some mailers in use which do not understand mime messages however there are a growing number of mail programs that have mime support built in one popular mime capable mailer for unix vms and pcs is pine developed at the university of washington and available via anonymous ftp from the host URL in the file pine pine tar z in addition several proprietary email systems provide mime translation capability in their internet gateway products however even if you do not have access to a mime capable mailer or suitable gateway there is still hope there are a number of stand alone programs that can interpret a mime message one of the more versatile is called munpack it was developed at carnegie mellon university and is available via anonymous ftp from the host URL in the directory pub mpack there are versions available for unix pc mac and amiga systems for compabibility with older forms of transferring binary files the munpack program can also decode messages in split uuencoded format does mime replace uuencode yes uuencode has been used for some time for encoding binary files so that they can be sent via internet mail but it has several technical limitations and interoperability problems mime uses a more robust encoding called baseNUMBER which has been carefully designed to survive the message transformations made by certain email gateways how can i learn more about mime the mime internet standard is described in rfc NUMBER available via anonymous ftp from many different internet hosts including o us east coast address URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER o us west coast address URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER o pacific rim address URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER o europe address URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER look for the file rfc rfcNUMBER txt another source of information is the internet news group comp mail mime which includes a periodic posting of a frequently asked questions list URL ,0
on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER lucas gonze wrote political mail the snail kind doesn t bother me i like it a lot of the time because as crap as it is at least it s not the kind of info you get on tv particularly for small time local politics it s the best way to get information except that thanks to the magic of spam it s usually some else s locale but what matters is that mail is speech and political email has to be as well protected as any other political speech spam is the tool for dissident news since the face that it s unsolicited means that recipients can t be blamed for being on a mailing list a terrible argument there are better technical solutions to privacy protection than sending a copy of the same message to everyone on the internet so the recipients can t be blamed for reading it wait till phone spam is as cheap to send as email spam dan URL ,0
hi kragen this is an interesting analysis i think that there are a couple of nits i might pick for example i don t expect that the market will be well developed with highest bidders for while i think that the most important issue which is that end users won t be able to fix their systems is almost passed over i know that you know this and you allude to it but your essay is getting passed around so you might want to add to it bits about the sysadmin and others there s one other point which you don t make which i think is very important which is that research into defining and addressing classes of vulnerabilities can t happen without libraries of available vulnerability code i can think of three researchers into automated methods for addressing vulnerabilities who griped uninvited about the quality of the existing vulnerability sites doing research into a set requires that you have enough examples in the open that you can define a set and that the set is added to from time to time so you can make and test predictions i feel fairly confident in saying that without full disclosure we wouldn t have stackguard itsNUMBER nissus or snort and the security admin s job would be a lot harder adam on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER eugen leitl wrote eugen leitl a href URL leitl a ______________________________________________________________ icbmto nNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER eNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBEReNUMBERcaNUMBER edeNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER aNUMBERb NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER aaNUMBER NUMBEReNUMBER NUMBEReNUMBER caNUMBER forwarded message date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt from kragen sitaker kragen pobox com to fork URL subject the underground software vulnerability marketplace and its hazards on august NUMBERth an entity known as idefense sent out an announcement which is appended to this email briefly idefense which bills itself as a global security intelligence company is offering cash for information about security vulnerabilities in computer software that are not publicly known especially if you promise not to tell anyone else if this kind of secret traffic is allowed to continue it will pose a very serious threat to our computer communications infrastructure at the moment the dominant paradigm for computer security research known as full disclosure people who discover security vulnerabilities in software tell the vendor about them and a short while later after the vendor has had a chance to fix the problem they publish the information including code to exploit the vulnerability if possible this method has proven far superior to the old paradigm established by cert in the late NUMBERs which its proponents might call responsible disclosure never release working exploit code and never release any information on the vulnerability before all vendors have released a patch this procedure often left hundreds of thousands of computers vulnerable to known bugs for months or years while the vendors worked on features and often even after the patches were released people wouldn t apply them because they didn t know how serious the problem was the underground computer criminal community would often discover and exploit these same holes for months or years while the responsible disclosure process kept their victims who had no connections in the underground vulnerable the problem with this is that vulnerabilities that are widely known are much less dangerous because their victims can take steps to reduce their potential impact including disabling software turning off vulnerable features filtering traffic in transit and detecting and responding to intrusions they are therefore much less useful to would be intruders also software companies usually see security vulnerabilities in their software as pr problems and so prefer to delay publication and the expense of fixing the bugs as long as possible idefense is offering a new alternative that appears far more dangerous than either of the two previous paradigms they want to be a buyer in a marketplace for secret software vulnerability information rewarding discoverers of vulnerabilities with cash not long before snosoft a group of security researchers evidently including some criminal elements apparently made an offer to sell the secrecy of some software vulnerability information to the software vendor specifically they apparently made a private offer to hewlett packard to keep a vulnerability in hp s truNUMBER unix secret if hp retained snosoft s consulting services hp considered this extortion and responded with legal threats and snosoft published the information if this is allowed to happen it will cause two problems which together add up to a catastrophe first secret software vulnerability information will be available to the highest bidder and to nobody else for reasons explained later i think the highest bidders will generally be organized crime syndicates although that will not be obvious to the sellers second finding software vulnerabilities and keeping them secret will become lucrative for many more talented people the result will be just as in the responsible disclosure days that the good guys will remain vulnerable for months and years while the majority of current vulnerabilities are kept secret i ve heard it argued that the highest bidders will generally be the vendors of the vulnerable software but i don t think that s plausible if someone can steal NUMBER NUMBER because a software bug lets them the software vendor is never held liable often in fact the people who administer the software aren t liable either when credit card data are stolen from an e commerce site for example knowing about a vulnerability before anyone else might save a web site administrator some time and it might save the software vendor some negative pr but it can net the thief thousands of dollars i think the highest bidders will be those for whom early vulnerability information is most lucrative the thieves who can use it to execute the largest heists without getting caught inevitably that means organized crime syndicates although the particular gangs who are good at networked theft may not yet exist there might be the occasional case where a market leader such as microsoft could make more money by giving their competitors bad pr than a gang could make by theft think of a remote root hole in samba for example right now people who know how to find security exploits are either motivated by personal interest in the subject motivated by the public interest motivated by a desire for individual recognition or personally know criminals that benefit from their exploits creating a marketplace in secret vulnerability information would vastly increase the availability of that information to the people who can afford to pay the most for it spies terrorists and organized crime let s not let that happen this is the original idefense announcement from sunil james mailto sjames URL sent wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject introducing idefense s vulnerability contributor program greetings idefense is pleased to announce the official launch of its vulnerability contributor program vcp the vcp pays contributors for the advance notification of vulnerabilities exploit code and malicious code idefense hopes you might consider contributing to the vcp the following provides answers to some basic questions about the program q how will it work a idefense understands the majority of security researchers do not publish security research for compensation rather it could be for any of a number of motivations including the following pure love of security research the desire to protect against harm to targeted networks the desire to urge vendors to fix their products the publicity that often accompanies disclosure the vcp is for those who want to have their research made public to the internet community but who would also like to be paid for doing the work the compensation will depend among other things on the following items the kind of information being shared i e vulnerability or exploit the amount of detail and analysis provided the potential severity level for the information shared the types of applications operating systems and other software and hardware potentially affected verification by idefense labs the level of exclusivity if any for data granted to idefense q who should contribute to the vcp a the vcp is open to any individual security research group or other entity q why are you launching this program a timeliness remains a key aspect in security intelligence contributions to some lists take time before publication to the public at large more often many of these services charge clients for access without paying the original contributor under the idefense program the contributor is compensated idefense labs verifies the issue and idefense clients and the public at large are warned in a timely manner q who gets the credit a the contributor is always credited for discovering the vulnerability or exploit information q when can i contribute the vcp is active you are welcome to begin contributing today to learn more go to URL if you have questions or would like to sign up as a contributor to the vcp please contact us at contributor URL regards sunil james technical analyst idefense idefense is a global security intelligence company that proactively monitors sources throughout the world from technical vulnerabilities and hacker profiling to the global spread of viruses and other malicious code the ialert security intelligence service provides decision makers frontline security professionals and network administrators with timely access to actionable intelligence and decision support on cyber related threats idefense labs is the research wing that verifies vulnerabilities examines the behavior of exploits and other malicious code and discovers new software hardware weaknesses in a controlled lab environment URL it is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once hume URL ,0
didn t we just have a discussion on fork how hard it is nowadays to write something that s not buffer overflow protected URL location URL im client vulnerable to attack im client vulnerable to attack james pearce zdnet australia users of messenger client trillian are vulnerable to attack according to information security analyst john hennessy hennessy has published a proof of concept showing the latest version of trillian vNUMBER NUMBER is vulnerable to a buffer overflow attack that will allow individuals with malicious intent to run any program on the computer trillion is a piece of software that allows you to connect to icq aol instant messenger msn messenger yahoo messenger and irc with a single interface despite some companies actively avoiding messenger interoperability according to jason ross senior analyst at amr interactive in june NUMBER there were NUMBER NUMBER home users of trillian in australia about NUMBER NUMBER percent of the internet population and NUMBER NUMBER people using it at work about NUMBER NUMBER percent of the internet population david banes regional manager of symantec security response told zdnet australia the code appeared to be valid with these sort of things you have to find some process that would accept a connection then throw loads of random data at it and get it to crash he said once it s crashed you can try to find a way to exploit it he said the proof of concept that was published is designed to run on notepad but could be easily modified to run any program on the system he said the problem was easy to fix by writing protective code around that particular piece to more closely validate the data around that piece because people are pushed for productivity you tend to leave out the checks and balances you should put in which is why we have all these buffer overflows and exploits out there now said banes cerulean studios creator of trillian was contacted for comment but had not responded by the time of publication for all security related news including updates on the latest viruses hacking exploits and patches check out zdnet uk s security news section have your say instantly and see what others have said go to the security forum let the editors know what you think in the mailroom copyright NUMBER cnet networks inc all rights reserved zdnet is a registered service mark of cnet networks inc zdnet logo is a service mark of cnet networks inc URL ,0
there s been well documented articles studies of the french tax laws corporate governance and financial oversight that NUMBER dont easily allow for isos the root of almost all entrepreneurialship and NUMBER the easy flow of capital to new ventures it was an extremely large issue even debated widely in france greg chuck murcko wrote according to my son it was actually homer simpson who claimed the french had no word for victory chuck on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm robert harley wrote an apparent quote from dubya from the times sent to me by my dad URL tony blair s special relationship with george w bush is under considerable strain not only do the two disagree on yassir arafat s tenure as leader of the palestinian authority but blair has started telling disparaging anecdotes about the president baroness williams of crosby recalled a story told to her by my good friend tony blair recently in brighton blair bush and jacques chirac were discussing economics and in particular the decline of the french economy the problem with the french bush confided in blair is that they don t have a word for entrepreneur r URL URL URL ,0
doom NUMBER will be based on a peer to peer architecture says cmdrtaco quoting ant quoting carmack greg URL doom NUMBER will use pNUMBERp system posted by cmdrtaco on sunday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam from the i ll believe it when i m fragged on it dept ant writes from page NUMBER of firingsquad s quakecon NUMBER postmortem article john carmack said something at the end of the q a about how the multiplayer will be only four players tim after NUMBER hours of talking up at the podium sometimes you leave a few details out doom NUMBER multiplayer will be fully scalable it will be a peer to peer system we haven t started working on it yet tell everyone not to panic it will be fine john just forgot to mention it ll be scalable past four players it s hard to give a hard number because we haven t started working on it yet right now we re focused on making doom NUMBER a kickass over the top single player game URL ,0
i finally let go of my irix magic desktop and window manager and evaluated several other window managers having lost my NUMBER years of customization with my xNUMBER and then xNUMBER desktop at one point at uci i promised myself that i d never get attached to another wm i limped along in the default gnome desktop i had a few unsuccessful stabs at the solaris open view desktop but nothing really stuck because of this along with sgi s love of pre configured pre compiled freeware NUMBER i never really made the jump from irix to linux either after installing the enlightenment wm i have to say i am really enlightened it s definitely a far cry from the no frills first look from previous versions it s only on version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER but it s a careful balance between simplicity performance fun features applications and ease of customization the number of themes they have on freshmeat is amazing NUMBER after less than an hour or two of nesting i already have almost all my menus and controls setup just the way i want i definitely recommend this to any irix desktop holdouts it s a great way to refresh your machine sgi without having to bite the bullet and rebuild it as a linux machine greg NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL URL ,0
more articles that support my fantasy that irvine is the center of the universe we ve got the corner on electric cars fuel cells two types of nobel winning physics outside the box computer science and lot of creative writers uci s creative writing department has been in the news a lot over the course of the last decade some quotes from the article NUMBER in NUMBER newsweek called uci s fiction writing workshop the hottest writing program in the country now it s exponentially hotter thanks only in part to sebold s daring and uncannily timely novel the novel they are talking about is alice sebold s the lovely bones which is on the way to the top of the ny times best sellers list my uncle used to tease me about uci being a usc graduate from NUMBER that nobody knew who uc irvine was just two states over in fact i used to refer to uci as one of the lesser known uc schools and when i went off to college in NUMBER my relatives told everyone i was off to cal state irvine i took a class as an undergrad by one of the department s faculty called the art of writing fiction if there was ever any two classes that helped contributed to writing my dissertation it was that one which taught me how to get the writing flowing and my high school typing class which taught me how to type really fast one of the advantages they cite in the article is that they seem to take a chance on the not so sure bet but according to the article the number of uci graduates that have gone on to write best sellers and the handful that feed the film industry is creating a viscious cycle that lures more talent which creates the right writing ecosystem which churns out more success stories which lures more talent greg NUMBER URL URL ,0
this message was sent to you from URL geege would like you to read the story below URL title a first look at the NUMBER NUMBER ghz pentium NUMBER summary latest rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give intel s newest pNUMBER the jolt it needs geege attached the following message ha ha ha harley rambus earns it stay on top of the world of information technology with your own free subscription to our specialized newsletters subscribe now at URL NUMBER ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER ian andrew bell wrote yet despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing as well as regulatory scrutiny by the ftc sec and irs the executives of telecom companies have managed to bilk the investment community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars this is a good thing getting hammered for stupid investments is likely to result in smarter investments in the future nobody is supposed to win all the time particularly not people who don t do due diligence a fool and his money are soon parted and all that it isn t the job of the ftc sec irs etc to make sure you invest your money wisely and i have grave doubts that they could even if it was their job they finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz laying off hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down so what nobody is guaranteed employment laying people off is not a crime nor is it immoral companies don t exist to provide employment nor should they the closest we have to such a thing in the us is a government job and look at the quality that breeds so tell me again how are we better off perhaps it is just a matter of personal preference but i d rather not live in a feed lot society thank you very much james rogers jamesr URL ,0
on sat NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER gregory alan bolcer wrote there s been well documented articles studies of the french tax laws corporate governance and financial oversight that NUMBER dont easily allow for isos the root of almost all entrepreneurialship and NUMBER the easy flow of capital to new ventures it was an extremely large issue even debated widely in france it is actually a lot worse than this what it boils down to is that only the privileged class is really allowed to start a serious company what i found fascinating is that the old french aristocracy effectively still exists literally the same families but they now hold top executive and management positions in the major french firms and the government positions which are only passed on to other blue bloods not officially of course but as a strict matter of practice and the laws and legal structures make sure that this system stays firmly in place even for a young french blue blood strict age hierarchies keep them from branching out into a new venture in their own country though many can leverage this to start companies in other countries i know about the french system first hand and the executives are quite candid about it at least to yanks like me who are working with them but i suspect this may hold true for other european countries as well after all those revolutions france is still nothing more than a thinly veiled old school aristocracy with all the trappings james rogers jamesr URL ,0
jim whitehead wrote so after shutting off the water and mopping up i was left to ponder what are the odds of having mechanical failure of a large rectangular porcelain bowl in the absence of any visible stressors like someone striking it with a sledgehammer we hadn t done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent all it takes is an overtorqued nut e g at the water intake entrance to stress the porcelain and you ve got a time bomb waiting to go off of course if you re lucky you ll overtorque it enough that the tank will break right away while you still have the water intake shut off joe ,0
john hall ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the ten commandments it seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit too you mean that thou shalt not covet thy neighbour s ass used to be about donkeys inconceivable r ,0
on mon NUMBER aug NUMBER joseph s barrera iii wrote adam l beberg wrote fair use needs to be clarified a bit that s an understatement yes it is how else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone that makes things people are supposed to drumroll pay for well you could damn well get a fucking better attitude i practically handed you a job the other week and you pissed all over me i m done helping you you have joined a very exclusive club that up to now has only had my sister as a member forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job i tracked them down they dont exist anymore like NUMBER of the things i track down the req s are pulled or there is a freeze the real problem is you cant even train for jobs now since they _demand_ NUMBER NUMBER years at a job paid to do the wierd collection of skills they want but i ll get lucky eventually and someone i know will be a hiring manager adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
adam l beberg wrote forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job i was talking about the open reqs at kana the company i work for oh but programming in java is beneath you joe ,0
on mon NUMBER aug NUMBER geege wrote latest rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give intel s newest pNUMBER the jolt it needs well athlon fsb NUMBER is almost there and i m really looking forward to the hammer series ,0
on mon NUMBER aug NUMBER geege wrote summary latest rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give intel s newest pNUMBER the jolt it needs geege attached the following message ha ha ha harley rambus earns it expect a NUMBER percent to NUMBER percent boost with pcNUMBER NUMBER faster for only NUMBER times pricewatch at NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER vs NUMBER the cost gimme gimme gimme and i better get the full NUMBER speedup and gime me that NUMBER faster geforce NUMBER at twice the cost of the NUMBER too seriously who falls for this scam p s finished the psNUMBER port it benchmarks at fp NUMBER int NUMBER a celeron NUMBER benches at fp NUMBER int NUMBER if it s not a polygon fill the thing is useless there will be no beowolf cluster of these it is NUMBERx faster then the ipaq tho at NUMBER NUMBER adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
 what are you trying to sell what is the value example does pratchett sell paper bound by glue or does he sell stories question when i buy a book have i purchased the story when i sell the book does any of that revenue go to mr pratchett what if i read the book and give it to someone who then reads it and gives it to someone who then reads it and gives it to someones bookcrossing com though with more succesfull passings does each reader send mr pratchett money have used bookstores recorstores etc destroyed the system of book record economy as to the resident sourpuss in germany bitter may be better but here its just plain stinkin thinkin tom ,0
 via robot wisdom maybe you uc folk know these people URL working at lewis clark college the university of california at berkeley the university of california at santa barbara and stanford university the interdisciplinary team confirmed speculation that the gecko s amazing climbing ability depends on weak molecular attractive forces called van der waals forces rejected a competing model based on the adhesion chemistry of water molecules and discovered that the gecko s adhesive depends on geometry not surface chemistry in other words the size and shape of the tips of gecko foot hairs not what they are made of determine the gecko s stickiness to verify its experimental and theoretical results the gecko group then used its new data to fabricate prototype synthetic foot hair tips from two different materials both artificial setal tips stuck as predicted notes autumn assistant professor of biology at lewis clark college in portland ore our initial prototypes open the door to manufacturing the first biologically inspired dry adhesive microstructures which can have widespread applications ,0
 bottom line the late senate minority leader certainly would have endorsed the meaning behind the phrase but it is questionable that he ever coined it an interesting link courtesy of the harrow report there s no written evidence so far that senator everett dirksen is the source of the infamous quote attributed to him it s kind of astounding that there is enough general social consensus NUMBER of all queries makes it a very faq and eyewitness reporting without a single written source what the essay below doesn t seem to answer though is what the earliest attributed quote in print by any other writer is i d naturally be much more skeptical if the quote emerged after his death rk URL a billion here a billion there did dirksen ever say a billion here a billion there and pretty soon you re talking real money or anything very close to that perhaps not based on an exhaustive search of the paper and audio records of the dirksen congressional center staffers there have found no evidence that dirksen ever uttered the phrase popularly attributed to him archivists undertook the search after studying research statistics showing that more than NUMBER percent of inquiries have to do with the quote or its variations here is what they examined all of the existing audio tapes of the famed ev and charlie and ev and jerry shows all newspapers clippings in the dirksen papers about NUMBER NUMBER pages of dirksen s own speech notes transcripts of his speeches and media appearances transcripts of republican leadership press conferences and dirksen s statements on the senate floor as documented in the congressional record although dirksen rarely prepared the text of a speech preferring to rely on notes he did employ brief phrases to remind him of a particular turn of phrase for example in referring to the public debt or excessive government spending dirksen would jot the word pothole to remind him to tell the following story on this occasion in reference to the debt ceiling as i think of this bill and the fact that the more progress we make the deeper we go into the hole i am reminded of a group of men who were working on a street they had dug quite a number of holes when they got through they failed to puddle or tamp the earth when it was returned to the hole and they had a nice little mound which was quite a traffic hazard not knowing what to do with it they sat down on the curb and had a conference after a while one of the fellows snapped his fingers and said i have it i know how we will get rid of that overriding earth and remove the hazard we will just dig the hole deeper congressional record june NUMBER NUMBER p NUMBER on the same occasion dirksen relied on yet another spending story one he labeled cat in the well one time in the house of representatives a colleague told me a story about a proposition that a teacher put to a boy he said johnny a cat fell in a well NUMBER feet deep suppose that cat climbed up NUMBER foot and then fell back NUMBER feet how long would it take the cat to get out of the well johnny worked assiduously with his slate and slate pencil for quite a while and then when the teacher came down and said how are you getting along johnny said teacher if you give me another slate and a couple of slate pencils i am pretty sure that in the next NUMBER minutes i can land that cat in hell if some people get any cheer our of a NUMBER billion debt ceiling i do not find much to cheer about concerning it congressional record june NUMBER NUMBER p NUMBER but there are no such reminders for the a billion here a billion there tag line as there surely should have been given dirksen s note making tendencies he spoke often and passionately about the debt ceiling federal spending and the growth of government yet there is no authoritative reference to the billion phrase the chief evidence in support of dirksen making the statement comes from people who claim to have heard him the library of congress for example cites someone s personal observation on the campaign trail as evidence the dirksen center has received calls from people who heard dirksen say those words some even providing the date of the event but cross checking that information with the records has so far turned up nothing in the way of confirmation the closest documented statement came at a joint senate house republican leadership press conference on march NUMBER NUMBER when dirksen said the favorite sum of money is NUMBER billion a billion a year for a fatter federal payroll a billion here a billion there emd papers republican congressional leadership file f NUMBER but the and pretty soon you re talking real money is missing in another close call the new york times january NUMBER NUMBER quoted dirksen look at education two and one half billion a billion for this a billion for that a billion for something else three to five billion for public works you haven t got any budget balance left you ll be deeply in the red cited in byron hulsey s everett dirksen and the modern presidents ph d dissertation may NUMBER university of texas p NUMBER of course the dirksen papers do not document completely the late senator s comments for example the center that bears his name does not have his testimony before committees their collection of congressional records ends in NUMBER omitting the last four years of dirksen s life and career he might have employed the phrase only late although witnesses claim he said it throughout his career dirksen s campaign speeches tended not to produce transcripts only sketchy notes or abbreviated newspaper accounts dirksen also held center stage before the video age meaning that many remarks particularly those in campaigns escaped capture bottom line the late senate minority leader certainly would have endorsed the meaning behind the phrase but it is questionable that he ever coined it my permanent email address is khare URL ,0
 uw email robot said what is mime i know what mime is godammit since mime is only a few years old a few time to update pine robot blurb txt on URL i think has anyone figured out what s up with this does someone out there think that fork needs some mime tutoring j ,0
justin mason writes has anyone figured out what s up with this does someone out there think that fork needs some mime tutoring i was puzzled at first but i think i understand what happened first i approved the post because it didn t appear to be spam even though it wasn t from a member i thought it was odd that someone wanted to send the mime blurb to the list but it was not really that different from causing the new york times web site to send a story to the list except that the bits here are antediluvian but old bits are a problem to be solved by social opporobrium not technical constraints but i think what actually happened is that some idiot got infected by klez and had both fork and the pine robot autoresponder address in their mailbox or addressbook so klez forged mail from fork URL to the autoresponder which responded to fork ,0
 now to do this we all know they have to be cracking the strong crypto used on all transaction in order to process them so this has some preaty heavy implications unless it s just bs anybody buying a box like this is undoubtledly going to integrate it into their crypto infrastructure what s the point of putting in a box like this if it s not an active participant in your security framework or you could just not bloat it NUMBERx to begin with nah that was the whole point of xml afterall to sell more cpus much like oracle s use of java allows them to sell NUMBERx more cpu licenses due to the performance hit blah blah blah the marketing fud gets compounded by the beberg fud talk about NUMBERx bloat again see above they _are_ claiming to decode the crypto what gives you the impression that s what they re doing that s not what the text says it s largely fluff anyway our xgNUMBER execution core converts xml to machine code said kelly mmmmmmmmmmm machine code never a good idea uhhh fundamentally it s all machine code kelly s comment seems more like drivel from a clueless marketroid than anything of technical concern having what appears to be a silicon xml router would be a cool thing having one integrated with your crypto environment would kick ass let it deserialize decrypt repackage the xml before handing it off to the app servers the question of course is does it work with actual applications in the field without tremendously reworking them somehow i doubt it bill kearney ,0
 o owen byrne owen permafrost net writes o from the local paper this morning canadians eat about seven o times as many doughnuts per capita as americans d oh if we had more variety of franchise food than the wendys kfc pizzahut tacobell timhorton s monopoly they are all pepsi under the hood aren t they things might be different when a new yorker has biscotti we have a timbit when a parisienne has a croissant we have a timbit because that s all we can buy the usa is a nation founded on creative free enterprise entrepreneurs canada is a nation built on monopolies gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
gary lawrence murphy if we had more variety of franchise food than the wendys kfc pizzahut tacobell timhorton s monopoly the usa is a nation founded on creative free enterprise entrepreneurs canada is a nation built on monopolies things aren t all that bad i remember vancouver as having a broad variety of good local eateries and toronto as having a variety of good local strip joints i never ate a doughnut in canada so i cannot vouch for their quality i could live in either of these cities quite happily but carolyn doesn t like cold weather personally i almost never eat at a franchise restaurant usually you can find better fare or cheaper fare and often both at a local restaurant _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL ,0
joebar wrote c is more reliable than java depends who writes it one guy will write a bug every NUMBER lines another every NUMBER lines put them both on a project and that will average out to a bug every NUMBER NUMBER lines observation type trivial irrespective of language pick the one that best suits what you re trying to do observation r ,0
 r russell turpin deafbox hotmail com writes r things aren t all that bad i remember vancouver as having a r broad variety of good local eateries and toronto as having a r variety of good local strip joints i haven t been to van in years but i do know that in toronto outside of the small deeply ethnic neighbourhoods if you stray more than NUMBER feet from wellesley and jarvis or queen and spadina you re in doughnutland there s far more like the eateries in the eaton centre than there are quaint cafes like mccaul north of dundas and the rare little eateries are not brimming with lunchtime traffic you can still find a seat at noon at village by the grange when most of toronto does not live in those neighbourhoods but instead lives in scarborough malton mississauga and markham franchisevilles you will quickly see that one or two trendy strips does not save an entire nation gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
 r robert harley harley argote ch writes r depends who writes it one guy will write a bug every NUMBER lines r another every NUMBER lines put them both on a project and that r will average out to a bug every NUMBER NUMBER lines and a java program due to the extensive class libraries will weigh in at NUMBER the number of lines of the equivalent c program qed gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
mike masnick wrote why is it that people don t understand that giving stuff away is a perfectly acceptable tactic in capitalist businesses in many places it s called advertising buy one get one free i ll just take the free one ok no oh so actually it s not free at all you re just bundling with a unit price half of what s advertised how about some truth in that advertising r ,0
glm wrote and a java program due to the extensive class libraries will weigh in at NUMBER the number of lines of the equivalent c program qed quod erat not demonstrandum at all there are massive amounts of libraries for c fortran and so on to pick an obvious example if you want to do linear algebra then java isn t a serious candidate at all furthermore plenty of bugs occur in the libraries too at a lower rate due to more users having been bitten by them but they are much harder for you to fix than in your own code why do so many people outside of sun s marketing department consider java to be write once debug everywhere r ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER joseph s barrera iii wrote c is more reliable than java both are reliable reliability is more a function of the software engineer i ve written complicated mission critical server software in java that will run without a hiccup as long as the unix box it is sitting on is running same with c for processes that are running months at a time and in my case constantly touching databases and doing lots of low level network stuff reliability is obtained by making sure every conceivable problem and problems you didn t conceive of recovers to a clean safe process state so that things keep running i e it is a design programming issue that said we usually prototype serious systems in java and then re implement them in c if we have time java doesn t scale well as a language for server apps though not for the reasons usually offered the problem is that for high end server apps you really need fairly detailed and low level control of system resources to get around bottlenecks that show up relatively quickly in languages that don t give you access to it you can squeeze several times the performance out of a c server program than a java one simply by being able to finely tune or more frequently bypass the system resource management nonetheless this is not a significant factor for most applications you could conceivably develop in either language as most aren t limited by raw performance scalability james rogers jamesr URL ,0
great this is half of what i d need to become spider man now all i need to figure out is how to do that spider web shooting thing jim original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of eirikur hallgrimsson sent monday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject gecko adhesion finally sussed via robot wisdom maybe you uc folk know these people URL working at lewis clark college the university of california at berkeley the university of california at santa barbara and stanford university the interdisciplinary team confirmed speculation that the gecko s amazing climbing ability depends on weak molecular attractive forces called van der waals forces rejected a competing model based on the adhesion chemistry of water molecules and discovered that the gecko s adhesive depends on geometry not surface chemistry in other words the size and shape of the tips of gecko foot hairs not what they are made of determine the gecko s stickiness to verify its experimental and theoretical results the gecko group then used its new data to fabricate prototype synthetic foot hair tips from two different materials both artificial setal tips stuck as predicted notes autumn assistant professor of biology at lewis clark college in portland ore our initial prototypes open the door to manufacturing the first biologically inspired dry adhesive microstructures which can have widespread applications ,0
on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote and a java program due to the extensive class libraries will weigh in at NUMBER the number of lines of the equivalent c program qed my typical java to c conversion doesn t increase the lines of code by more than NUMBER and a fair portion of that is the implementation of additional features that drove us to do the conversion in the first place some things are substantially more succinct when written in c than in java c and most other mature languages have an endless collection of libraries i personally don t use anything beyond the core libraries of any language that much though on a tangent i find libraries nearly useless for a great many things due primarily to the fact that most of them are so general that a given non trivial api almost always has a context in which it will function in a pathological manner code reuse is wonderful and all that but libraries frequently make design trade offs that won t work for me even if they theoretically do exactly what i need unfortunately it isn t particularly easy nor does it make a nice simple api to design a library that really is optimizable to a wide range of design cases i ve built a small collection of flexible psuedo polymorphic apis over the years that i tend to use but it is a pretty ugly solution for code reuse when you get right down to it james rogers jamesr URL ,0
so a new family moved in down the street with two kids making us very excited that there might be a child around the same age NUMBER months as our daughter tatum while we re talking to the family we discover that their daughter kiara was born the same day as tatum within two hours in the same exact maternity ward both mothers were undoubtedly in labor at the same time wow jim ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER jim whitehead wrote great this is half of what i d need to become spider man now all i need to figure out is how to do that spider web shooting thing that and be able to stick yourself upside down on a NUMBER foot ceiling from a standing jump i remember someone recently doing the calculations in kilocalories required to be spiderman somewhere kind of like those flaming processor analyses done a couple of years ago cheers rah r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 r robert harley harley argote ch writes r glm wrote and a java program due to the extensive class libraries will weigh in at NUMBER the number of lines of the equivalent c program qed r there are massive amounts of libraries for c fortran and so r on to pick an obvious example if you want to do linear r algebra then java isn t a serious candidate at all if you want to do http c gets pretty muddy curl is about the best choice i ve found but i grant you that no language is the be all and end all i envy some of those posting to this list i ve been in business for NUMBER years and i haven t yet had the luxury of writing every line of code for any project we are always coerced by budgets and time to maximize the amount of work done elsewhere as much as i hate dealing with someone else s blackbox as much as i ve spent sleepless nights second guessing external libs i ve never ever had the luxury to do otherwise it must be wonderful to be responsible for something you are actually responsible for and i am so sick of being blamed for other people s design mistakes maybe there s an archive somewhere i need to know about but i ve been using c since drdobbs first published smallc and yet i ve never found any decent lgpl libs cataloged in such a way that i can just type in the task and get back an api because of javadoc which is by no means perfect java provides me the second best catalog of NUMBERrd party libs second only to perl s cpan perl is one language i also really hate with a passion yet end up using the most for exactly this reason for example take the recent cbc olympics site i needed to roll together a telnet client with a tokenizer perl regex preprocessing a stream to produce parseable xml project that xml into relational databases using only the dtd to generate the rdbms schema and open an xmlrpc interface to read and post items into the news stream where can i find c libs for those components on the webserver we then needed a multithreaded read only http socket which can spawn persistent data caching servlets that periodically refresh themselves over socket connections to the relational database presenting the retreived values through xslt defined transforms and again where can i find such stuff for c or for any other langauge but java wombat servlet spec for perl was inviting but it s not ready for prime time and re inventing that entire shopping list in c is just not feasible for one programmer to do inside of NUMBER weeks when you need c libs or even c libs where s the best place to shop where do you find standards based portable rdbms api odbc how do you evaluate these things without actually fetching every one and trying it out in a perfect universe i d use ocaml or even ruby but i don t see the social infrastructure for either happening during my professional lifetime r why do so many people outside of sun s marketing department r consider java to be write once debug everywhere a collegue at cognos henk called c the nearly portable assembler gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
first seen on dave winer s scrpiting news www scripting com details here URL jim ,0
it s official the holidays are here i got html mail from one of the little catalogs i ve been known to purchase from basically the front page of their first holiday catalog must have been released simultaneously with mailing for a delivery target of just after labor day ick eirikur ,0
 for example take the recent cbc olympics site i needed to roll together a telnet client with a tokenizer perl regex preprocessing a stream to produce parseable xml project that xml into relational databases using only the dtd to generate the rdbms schema and open an xmlrpc interface to read and post items into the news stream where can i find c libs for those components you open sourced the new components you developed for this project so the next person who comes along won t have to reimplement them right jim ,0
we met a family in our parent baby group with a son born a few minutes before our daughter not unlikely as all members were from the same hospital but this family happened to have lived in the exact same apartment unit a year before we had original message from jim whitehead ejw cse ucsc edu to fork fork xent com sent wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject another low probability event so a new family moved in down the street with two kids making us very excited that there might be a child around the same age NUMBER months as our daughter tatum while we re talking to the family we discover that their daughter kiara was born the same day as tatum within two hours in the same exact maternity ward both mothers were undoubtedly in labor at the same time wow jim ,0
 j jim whitehead ejw cse ucsc edu writes j you open sourced the new components you developed for this j project so the next person who comes along won t have to j reimplement them right no need all those components already exist either in the java class libraries or from the various java jar collections most of the classes i used came from the jakarta project and apachexml but if it s any consolation my threading of them all together into a newswire server is gpl and available on sourceforge gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
eirikur hallgrimsson wrote it s official the holidays are here for which year NUMBER or NUMBER joe ,0
gary s news service at URL has an article on internet saturation let me ask you if you were on a rock in the middle of the atlantic mostly in the dark for half the year wouldn t you like a bit of internet distraction they ve already done the obvious and fiber ringed the island eirikur latest guestimate stats from ireland s nua show a flattening internet population growth it seems there s two kinds of people those who will go online with the status quo and those who won t canada levels out at NUMBER the usa at NUMBER since NUMBER denmark flatlines at NUMBER norway at NUMBER sweden at NUMBER and the uk at NUMBER only iceland continues unfettered beyond NUMBER could this be evidence of a usability barrier if so it s a clear signal that there s as much fortune to be gained from a substantially new internet interface than all that has been gained so far latest guestimate stats from ireland s nua show a flattening internet population growth it seems there s two kinds of people those who will go online with the status quo and those who won t canada levels out at NUMBER the usa at NUMBER since NUMBER denmark flatlines at NUMBER norway at NUMBER sweden at NUMBER and the uk at NUMBER only iceland continues unfettered beyond NUMBER could this be evidence of a usability barrier if so it s a clear signal that there s as much fortune to be gained from a substantially new internet interface than all that has been gained so far URL ,0
 gary lawrence murphy said i envy some of those posting to this list i ve been in business for NUMBER years and i haven t yet had the luxury of writing every line of code for any project we are always coerced by budgets and time to maximize the amount of work done elsewhere for consultancy integration or open source work sure perl python or java with free use of external libs makes a lot of sense imo i should note that normally when i ve used c or c in the past it s dictated by the fact that i would be working on a commercial product written from the ground up where the code you re generating is important ip for the company in this case using a third party lib often is not an option or would be a pita licensing wise also cutting out third party dependencies can reduce the risk of oops there goes the company that makes that library i depend on now to shop around for something vaguely similar figure out what bugs it s got rewrite my code to use the new api and hope for the best this can be a very big deal for obvious reasons open source knockers should note that this is not a problem when using lgpl d libs j ,0
 eirikur hallgrimsson said let me ask you if you were on a rock in the middle of the atlantic mostly in the dark for half the year wouldn t you like a bit of internet distraction they ve already done the obvious and fiber ringed the island btw did they do the same as they did in ireland namely spend millions burying copious miles of dark fibre then neglect to provide any way of actually hooking it up to any isps j frustrated ,0
geege wrote this message was sent to you from URL geege would like you to read the story below URL title a first look at the NUMBER NUMBER ghz pentium NUMBER summary latest rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give intel s newest pNUMBER the jolt it needs geege attached the following message ha ha ha harley rambus earns it stay on top of the world of information technology with your own free subscription to our specialized newsletters subscribe now at URL NUMBER the overclockers have given it another jolt perhaps to potential sales and maybe sales of liquid nitrogen via slashdot owen URL päivämäärä NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER artikkeli intel northwood NUMBER NUMBERghz tekijä sampsa kurri mailto sampsa kurri muropaketti com english summary when the intel pentium NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERghz cpu arrived to our testlab we ordered NUMBER liters of liquid nitrogen lnNUMBER NUMBER c and decided to run some tests in very low temperatures after some adjusting and testing we were able to run sisoft sandra cpu and memory benchmarks and pifast benchmark smoothly when the cpu was running at NUMBERmhz we raised the fsb one more step and managed to run succesfully superpi benchmark while cpu was running at NUMBERmhz the result was NUMBER seconds test setup pNUMBER NUMBER NUMBERghz modified asus pNUMBERtNUMBER c samsung pcNUMBER rdram pny geforce NUMBER mxNUMBER and windows xp os check out the pictures ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER bill stoddard wrote red hat linux advanced server provides many high end features such as support for asynchronous i o now read i o no longer needs to stall your application while waiting for completion can you provide a reference i could find it myself but i m too lazy well i saw it on the compaq testdrive site then had to seriously dig on the redhat site it s in one of their whitepapers URL could it be after NUMBER years without this feature unix finally catches up to windows and has i o that doesnt totally suck for nontrivial apps no way do dev poll and freebsd s kq event driven apis count imho true async io as implemented by windows NUMBER NUMBER and beyond is pretty slick but the programming model is substantially more complex than programming to an event api like dev poll and true async does not buy much if the system call overhead is low as it is with linux i havent used the fbsd poll as it s not portable select and poll still not NUMBER are all that exist in the unix world redhat of course doesnt count as portable either but it s nice they are trying the windows i o model does definately blow the doors off the unix one but then they had select to point at in it s suckiness and anything would have been an improvement unix is just now looking at it s i o model and adapting to a multiprocess multithreaded world so it s gonna be years yet before a posix api comes out of it bottom line is the do stuff when something happens model turned out to be right and the unix look for something to do and keep looking till you find it no matter how many times you have to look is not really working so great anymore adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
 well beberg unless you re really into anime and actually hold true that dead people can send email i think geege s subject is just dandy especially since she removed herself from the hive that is aol and placed herself unto another but hey geege i think its cute when he worries like that don t you ducks and runs bonus fork points if adam knows what anime i m refering to bb ,0
beberg would you rather mrsrobinson URL into plastics too schuman original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of joseph s barrera iii sent sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject re revocation of grlygrlNUMBER bitbitch URL wrote well beberg unless you re really into anime and actually hold true that dead people can send email i think geege s subject is just dandy funny you should mention that as i just came back from refilling the green coolant in my navi bonus fork points if adam knows what anime i m refering to i guess i don t get any points do i no didn t think so joe p s we ve just started watching boogiepop phantom the combatant state is your father and your mother your only protector the totality of your interests no discipline can be stern enough for the man who denies that by word or deed ,0
reza b far ebuilt wrote problems why do most computer scientists insist on solving the same problems over and over again when there are some many more important and interesting problems high level to be solved amen doing it in an unecessarily harder way does not make you more of a man or less of a kiddie joe the combatant state is your father and your mother your only protector the totality of your interests no discipline can be stern enough for the man who denies that by word or deed ,0
 once we thought of the internet as this thing with infinite capabilities it was basically just a fad that came along missing from the article is the percentage of foreign enrolement i would bet the numbers of students from asia china specificly has gone up quite a bit and is the only thing keeping the overall numbers from plummiting you can t get the chicks with that anymore about time us geeks were outcasts again i was getting sick of hearing about geeks breeding and ending up with autistic children proving that intelligence is a genetic defect and a do not breed flag adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL tech s major decline college students turning away from bits and bytes by ellen mccarthy washington post staff writer tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER page eNUMBER if john yandziak had been entering college a few years ago he might have sought a stake in the new economy he might have dreamed of becoming an ace code cracker for the cia or the national security agency or imagined toppling an empire with revolutionary software maybe he would have tried to use the internet to end world hunger but as yandziak attends his first college classes this week he s harboring different academic ambitions the ashburn native says he wants to do something more social and more interesting than working with computers besides he said while packing for a charlottesville dormitory room you can t get the chicks with that anymore the tech industry s financial problems are enough to bankrupt the dreams of some fair weather students but now there s another consequence of the tech bust enrollment growth in undergraduate computer science departments has come to a halt the number of undergraduates majoring in computer science fell NUMBER percent in NUMBER according to a report by the computing research association and educators in the field say the trend seems to be accelerating with some colleges seeing much greater drops as the new academic year begins the word is out among department deans that the bust s fallout has trickled into the classroom said maria clavez president of the association of computing machinery i ve heard everything from no change to modest decline to more dramatic declines said clavez who will become the dean of science and engineering at princeton university in january it can be hard to see this because at some colleges the number of people who want to study computer science so far exceeds the available space but it is going to have an effect at virginia tech enrollment of undergraduates in the computer science department will drop NUMBER percent this year to NUMBER at george washington university the number of incoming freshmen who plan to study computer science fell by more than half this year interest in undergraduate computer science programs had grown rapidly in the past decade in NUMBER schools with phd programs in computer science and computer engineering granted NUMBER NUMBER degrees according to the computing research association the numbers rose through NUMBER when NUMBER NUMBER degrees were awarded the labor department projects that software engineering will be the fastest growing occupation between NUMBER and NUMBER with other computer related industries trailing close behind but in the short term that growth may slow based on the changes among college students for example NUMBER of the NUMBER NUMBER plus undergraduates studying information technology and engineering at george mason university were computer science majors last year this year the enrollment in that major is down to NUMBER although a newly created and more general information technology major has attracted NUMBER students having it ease off for a while is a bit of a relief said lloyd griffith dean of george mason s information technology and engineering school particularly with the field as it has been they don t want to spend four years on something and then not get a job freshman enrollment for the university of maryland s computer science major is expected to be about NUMBER this fall down from NUMBER last year maryland decreased its total freshman enrollment by NUMBER percent but that alone does not account for the drop said steve halperin dean of maryland s college of computer mathematical and physical sciences we are seeing a decrease in the number of freshmen who are declaring their interest in pursuing computer science as a major halperin said that s a factual statement but i would say that at this point we don t expect to see a decrease in the number of graduates many of the kids who are no longer expressing an interest in majoring in cs would have fallen off yandziak who began at the university of virginia on saturday is not convinced that s the case he graduated in the top NUMBER percent of his class with a NUMBER NUMBER grade point average and nailed the highest possible score on his advanced placement exam in computer science all of my classes have been easy for me math and sciences were always fun so i looked for professions in which i could use those things yandziak said i m just not sure i want my life to be immersed in technology i want to do something that will contribute to the practical world harris n miller president of the information technology association of america said the last time there was a dearth of computing professionals salaries skyrocketed and workers benefited from the labor shortage there was a tremendous imbalance in the late NUMBERs potentially you have the same sort of thing going on right now people are saying i don t need this kind of it training right now miller said our concern as an industry is that if they begin to again see major declines in enrollment down the road four years as the economy picks up once again companies are going to find themselves in a shortage situation economic potential weighs heavily in many student career choices but other factors including program difficulty personal interests and social influences also come into play said judy hingle director of professional development at the american college counseling association the perception of computer science as an isolating nerdy profession is one that many in the industry have tried to squelch that stereotype went underground during the tech bubble but reemerged during the bust all the hipness is gone yandziak said once we thought of the internet as this thing with infinite capabilities it was basically just a fad that came along lamont thompson a recent graduate of calvin coolidge senior high school in the district is headed to morehouse college in atlanta to study business marketing with the intention of going into real estate development technology comes natural to people my age it s not fascinating anymore thompson said to be honest with you when i think computer science i think of some guy sitting behind a computer all day in a dark room it s a necessity but i wouldn t take it any further ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER joseph s barrera iii wrote reza b far ebuilt wrote problems why do most computer scientists insist on solving the same problems over and over again when there are some many more important and interesting problems high level to be solved amen like what exactly all the problems are in chemisty and physics and biology and mathematics we re just enablers doing it in an unecessarily harder way does not make you more of a man or less of a kiddie yes but doing it an order of magnitude or NUMBER easier does which with the way things are now is not hard at all to do adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER mr fork wrote NUMBER hardware is getting so fast that i m not sure if the performance difference between java and c c are relevant any more when out of the box parsing transform of xml in java is NUMBERx slower than c on the same hardware then it does matter yea and that on top of the NUMBERx of all the parsing engines over just bigendian ing it and passing the data NUMBERx in the raw then it really matters adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
on sunday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm reza b far ebuilt wrote NUMBER java is not just a programming language the astounding thing about java is that despite all of the many significant points in its favor it still manages to suck and break across jvms i was really looking forward to being able to use a better language like java and get it compiled to real platform specific binaries via the gnu compiler collection but this seems to have never really gotten anywhere because it would require porting or reimplementing libraries which are probably not source available or tolerably licenced when i looked at what i had to do to gcc and link hello world i lost interest who the hell is writing the runtimes anyway why are perl python ruby more reliable in a world where the macs all ran emulated NUMBERk code utterly reliably it s just hard to accept that there can t be a single portable jvm that just works my opinion is biased because of the disgraceful state of non windoze browser java implementations eirikur ,0
use this address instead please prerogatively geege ,0
on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER eirikur hallgrimsson wrote my opinion is biased because of the disgraceful state of non windoze browser java implementations horrors applets are kinda sucky the cool kids are using java to write server applications not browser craplets the giggle inducing irony of the whole java thing is how sun s strategy backfired they produced a platform that was supposed to dwell on the client side where it would commoditize those clients instead it turns out to be the perfect language to write server applications in and it has successfully commoditized servers ooops njl ,0
with the increasing prevalence of web services not that they are always a good thing i doubt that parsing xml will be something that will remain at the java application layer for long recent threads here on fork indicating the move towards hardware parsing or this code even become part of the native implementation of java on various platforms reza b far original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of adam l beberg sent sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to mr fork cc fork URL subject re java is for kiddies on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER mr fork wrote NUMBER hardware is getting so fast that i m not sure if the performance difference between java and c c are relevant any more when out of the box parsing transform of xml in java is NUMBERx slower than c on the same hardware then it does matter yea and that on top of the NUMBERx of all the parsing engines over just bigendian ing it and passing the data NUMBERx in the raw then it really matters adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
 of course they had to do this after we purcahsed these all on vhs and yes it is now run by the great evil empire known as disney but we got the new school house rocks dvd anyway and man is it an amazing item first off my NUMBER year old has been singing them since she was NUMBER second off these are much easier to rip to divx and mpNUMBER third new songs remastered originals and other dvd goodies its a NUMBER dvd set so its well worth the NUMBER we paid for it even if you dont have kids run do not walk to pick this one up man i would sure love to have a nix rocks for the kids ,0
 microsoft has announced that they plan to remove java from windows they took it out of xp already and it has to be installed with a service pack somehow i can t imagine them removing the ability to run c programs they removed their java vm they didn t remove the ability to run java programs anybody is free to develop their own java vm and make it kick ass as someone said earlier in the thread nobody is capable or willing to do that i ve done a bunch of java and haven t run into huge problems running the same bytecode across solaris or winNUMBERk what actual problems have people actually run into actually ,0
 original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of robert harley sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re java is for kiddies reza b far wrote this thread kind of surprises me i started coding with c then c and moved on to java and i think that robert harley wrote looks like a case of my experience is comprehensive your s is anecdotal they don t know what they re talking about well i sure don t claim that i think most people on fork probably have more programming knowledge than i do there s lots of experience out here reza b far wrote NUMBER the people who pay the wages don t give a flyin heck what programming language you write things in they just want it to work robert harley wrote in my experience they do care it has to work certainly and in particular it has to work with what they ve already got and it has to work on client s systems my limited experience of java started a few years ago when support on linux was so terrible that i ran away screaming and haven t come back yet well i think until recently support for most things on linux was kind of shady things have got much better you re right in that the jdk used to suck on linux but then imho linux is still maturing or at least development tools for linux are maturing i ve been developing a few server side apps that run on linux recently with jdk NUMBER NUMBER x and they ve had no problems with great performance robert harley worte microsoft has announced that they plan to remove java from windows they took it out of xp already and it has to be installed with a service pack somehow i can t imagine them removing the ability to run c programs hmmm do you really think that ms is pulling out java because it s a bad programming language or application platform you don t think this has anything to do with net being a competitor to java do you or that ms has basically copied java with some additional features and called it c isn t that alone an indication that they actually do think that a vm is the right way to go for most high level applications reza b far wrote NUMBER c and c forces the developer to solve problems such as memory management over and over again robert harley wrote can t say i spend any noticeable amount of time on memory management issues apart from the fact that i frequently need NUMBER gb hmmm again you re telling me that you ve never had a nasty bug that took you a couple of days to track down that had to do with a memory leak i am not the best c c programmer not even close but i ve known really good ones and even they have nasty bugs that have to do with memory management however occasional they may be it s about design patterns architecture high level stuff robert harley wrote if your problem just requires application of a design pattern to solve then it s trivial anyway irrespective of language wow so you re telling me that unless the application involves bit counting it s trivial what about the application itself what about high level problems such as task distribution work flow etc aren t most high level problems solved with high level solutions like design patterns or do you solve high level problems by writing optimal c c code for example do you think that most people working on collaboration frameworks there are lots of them on this list are working on writing an operating system with assembly that provides for a collaborative environment i am amazed by the amount of time wasted by people talking about low level problems that have been solved NUMBER million times over and over and over again robert harley wrote you appear to be gratuitously asserting that c programmers waste time on irrelevant low level problems and java programmers don t depends entirely on the programmer not the language i can see how you could infer this however what i believe to really be the case is that java is one of the best languages for writing large applications with many components that involves the collaboration of more than three programmers in those cases it s always very hard to get the programmers to agree on api s memory management techniques etc with java the jcp takes care of the discussions so that you don t sit around in a long meeting trying to decide what api to use to hook up to a database jdbc or a messaging bus jms NUMBER java is not just a programming language it s also a platform robert harley wrote buzzword yikes have you written db code with c c for different databases just an example tried porting a persistence layer from windows to unix say you have informix running on solaris and you want to port to windows with ms sql bad idea but for the sake of the example would you rather deal with jdbc port or c c port that uses informix drivers and now you have to use odbc a monolithic set of api s or a crap load of different api s slicing and dicing the same problems NUMBER different ways robert harley wrote unsupported assertion so are you saying that there is a standard set of api s for c c for everything aside to the minimal ansi stuff is there a standard way of dealing with c c applications for various domain problems messaging database persistence etc that rivals java i d like to know if there is one accepted by everyone who writes c c in that case i claim ignorance not suggesting that java is the golden hammer just that c c is overkill for most things i even coded in vb but vb is a true disgrace to programming it s just lame java is object oriented no flame mail from the anti oo people please that is a religious discussion and relatively clean and i don t think that every kid can write a well designed java program kids typically don t understand various design patterns and principles to my experience they actually tend to think more of the low level problems wanting to rewrite and reinvent the world a tendency that is much more possible imho in c c than in java due to existence of standard api s ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER reza b far ebuilt wrote hmmm again you re telling me that you ve never had a nasty bug that took you a couple of days to track down that had to do with a memory leak i am not the best c c programmer not even close but i ve known really good ones and even they have nasty bugs that have to do with memory management however occasional they may be ok noone has been tool less for memory management for a long time most systems you just add a flag and memory is tracked that s how i ve always done it or worst case yuo have to run it through one of the NUMBER NUMBEReNUMBER tools where you simply recompile and it it tells you where the leaks are memory management is a non issue for anyone that has any idea at all how the hardware functions granted this takes NUMBER minutes to go over and so is far beyond the scope of the learn java in NUMBER minutes without thinking book every java programmer learned from adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER reza b far ebuilt wrote with the increasing prevalence of web services not that they are always a good thing i doubt that parsing xml will be something that will remain at the java application layer for long recent threads here on fork indicating the move towards hardware parsing or this code even become part of the native implementation of java on various platforms ok so you get the xml toss it through hardware and turn it back into a struct object whatever you call your binary data i agree this is the way things will go as xml parsing has just too much overhead to survive in the application layer so why turn it into xml in the first place becasue it gives geeks something to do and sells xml hardware accelerators and way more cpus is there anyone out there actually doing anything new that actually improves things anymore or are they all too scared of the fact that improvements put people out of work and cut NUMBER is the creators adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
sunday i drove from portland down to the woodburn dragstrip to check out the nedra nationals URL the electric cars motorcycles and dragsters had some great times and i ended up with a few pics and a nice deep burn john waylan who was interviewed in wired a few years back pulled out a NUMBER NUMBER second run in the quarter mile NUMBERmph on a battery pack that hasn t been broken in yet he expects to break his record next year topping his NUMBER NUMBERsec NUMBERmph run a couple of years ago he s shooting for a NUMBER second run john also took out a replica NUMBER oldsmobile for a respectable NUMBERmph run remember we started out with electric cars near the end of the day kilacycle took the track with an amazing NUMBERmph run talk about a crotch rocket ross on saturday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am adam l beberg wrote personally i don t think americans will ever go electric there is too much testosterone linked to the auto as the male s primary form of compesating for other things see now that s a job for you femanists teach women not to fall for a fast environmentally destuctive vehicle you should only have to rewrite NUMBER of the genome ,0
 from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER just cvs up ed and nowadays catch up unseen is __extremely__ slow on large NUMBER msgs unseen sequences anybody else having this problem i ll take the blame the reason i suspect is that we re needlessly reading the sequences file multiple times because of other sequences i need to make the code much smarter about handling that file but first i have a few other fish to fry in my rather large patch that s on it s way no panic i m all for cleaning things up before getting it optimized okay this fix is now checked in chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from robert elz kre munnari oz au date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERfaNUMBERd deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com i can t reproduce this error ah i think i just found the cause nmh is broken which is probably obvious from my previous mail the man page for pick and how it always used to work was that list would list messages matched nolist would supress that if sequence is given the default is nolist without sequence the default is list that s all fine but it appears now which probably means i had never used pick since i upgraded nmh last that what counts is the order of list and sequence that is if sequence comes after list the list gets turned off sequence implies nolist instead of just making nolist the default an easy workaround for this is to make sure that list is the last arg given to pick so if i run delta pick inbox lbrace lbrace subject ftp rbrace rbrace NUMBER NUMBER sequence mercury list NUMBER which is just as it should be hmmm i assume you re going to report this to the nmh folks chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from chris garrigues cwg exmh deepeddy com date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from j w ballantine jwb homer att com date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i cvs ed the unseen sequences changes and installed them and have only one real issue i use the unseen window rather than the exmh icon and with the new code i can t seem to be able to how many unseen when when i have the main window open is not really necessary hmmm i stole the code from unseenwin but i never tested it since i don t use that functionality consider it on my list of things to check well unfortunately i appear to be using a window manager that doesn t support the icon window however i did fix some bugs in the related hide when empty functionality which may solve the issue you may need to remove unseen from the always show sequences to make this work if so let me know so i can put that in the help window for icon window as it already is for hide when empty chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from chris garrigues cwg exmh deepeddy com date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER okay catchup unseen is something that i don t use often but i can certainly reproduce this i ll dig into it it s probably simple try it now chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
thanks tony but i think doing it using component files will get a signature by default but i have many diferent signatures and i want to insert one of that signatures using a keyboard command so for a message i will insert a signature but for another message i will insert a different signature is it possible i am using sedit for my messages thanks ulises hi is there a command to insert the signature using a combination of keys and not to have sent the mail to insert it then i simply put it them into my nmh component files components replcomps forwcomps and so on that way you get them when you are editing your message also by using comps files for specific folders you can alter your sig per folder and other tricks see the docs for n mh for all the details there might must also be a way to get sedit to do it but i ve been using gvim as my exmh message editor for a long time now i load it with a command that loads some email specific settings eg to syntax colour highlight the headers and quoted parts of an email it would be possible to map some vim keys that would add a sig or even give a selection of sigs to choose from and there are all sorts of ways to have randomly chosen sigs somewhere at rtfm mit edu ok here we go URL warning it s old may NUMBER regards ulises hope this helps cheers tony _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
what s the trick again to have it default to showing text plain instead of html harlan _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on sat NUMBER aug NUMBER harlan harlan feinstein wrote harlan what s the trick again to have it default to showing harlan text plain instead of html in exmh exmh defaults add mime_alternative_prefs text plain text enriched text richtext text html order possible alternatives from _your_ most preferred to least preferred hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com hmmm i assume you re going to report this to the nmh folks yes i will sometime after i look at the nmh sources and see what they have managed to break and why but we really want exmh to operate with all the versions of nmh that exist don t we the patch to have exmh do the right thing whether this bug exists or not is trivial so i d suggest including it patch follows i have no idea why the sequences were being added after the message list before not that it should make any difference to nmh or mh but since i stopped doing that the variable msgs isn t really needed any more rather than assigning pick msgs to msgs and then using msgs the code could just use pick msgs where msgs is now used this is just a frill though so i didn t change that kre pick tcl fri aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER usr local lib exmh NUMBER NUMBER pick tcl sat aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER proc pick_it global pick exmh set cmd list exec pick exmh folder list set cmd list exec pick exmh folder set inpane NUMBER set hadpane NUMBER for set pane NUMBER pane pick panes incr pane NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER set msgs pick msgs foreach s pick sequence lappend msgs sequence s lappend cmd sequence s lappend cmd list exmh_debug pick_it cmd msgs busy pickinner cmd msgs _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 date fri NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER aNUMBERbcNUMBER deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com interesting i don t think this was my bug it appears that msg_change was asked to change to message something like that is quite possible but perviously typing nonsense in didn t cause tracebacks and now it does and the traceback came from the sequence code perviously this would have just caused red messages in the status line complaining about my lousy typing that s probably what it should keep on doing the red part isn t important obviously kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
today an apt get upgrade holds back php and submodules like php imap running an apt get install php to see what s up i get apt get install php processing file dependencies done reading package lists done building dependency tree done the following extra packages will be installed curl devel imap imap devel mysql mysql devel php imap php ldap postgresql postgresql devel postgresql libs pspell devel ucd snmp devel ucd snmp utils unixodbc unixodbc devel the following new packages will be installed curl devel imap imap devel mysql mysql devel postgresql postgresql devel postgresql libs pspell devel ucd snmp devel ucd snmp utils unixodbc unixodbc devel the following packages will be upgraded php php imap php ldap NUMBER packages upgraded NUMBER newly installed NUMBER to remove replace and NUMBER not upgraded anyone have an idea what the heck redhat did here and why we re now trying to install a ton of crap i don t want i m hoping someone else has chased this down and could save me time thx te troy engel systems engineer cool as the other side of the pillow _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER troy engel wrote today an apt get upgrade holds back php and submodules like php imap running an apt get install php to see what s up i get apt get install php processing file dependencies done reading package lists done building dependency tree done the following extra packages will be installed curl devel imap imap devel mysql mysql devel php imap php ldap postgresql postgresql devel postgresql libs pspell devel ucd snmp devel ucd snmp utils unixodbc unixodbc devel the following new packages will be installed curl devel imap imap devel mysql mysql devel postgresql postgresql devel postgresql libs pspell devel ucd snmp devel ucd snmp utils unixodbc unixodbc devel the following packages will be upgraded php php imap php ldap NUMBER packages upgraded NUMBER newly installed NUMBER to remove replace and NUMBER not upgraded anyone have an idea what the heck redhat did here and why we re now trying to install a ton of crap i don t want i m hoping someone else has chased this down and could save me time rh bugzilla NUMBER thats the answer sv _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER troy engel wrote anyone have an idea what the heck redhat did here and why we re now trying to install a ton of crap i don t want i m hoping someone else has chased this down and could save me time i m told that even our best people occasionally screw up and qa had tested the rpm on an everything install expect a fixed version soon and qa procedures have been adjusted to catch this kind of braindamage in the future there is nothing really wrong with the binary inside the rpm so if you want to nodeps for now it s ok chris kloiber _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi everybody my name is gilles i m NUMBER and i m french my english is very bad and i m sorry if you do not understand correctly my emails i use linux since NUMBER months before i worked with windows NUMBER pro i enjoy red hat i tried mandrake suse debian slackware and my favorite of all of them is red hat actually i use red hat NUMBER NUMBER i visited the web site freshrpms i congratulated thias for his work and i subscribed to this list for to know more about red hat and rpms news pleased to read u soon gilles nice south of france _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
thanks for this information i gave alsa a try couldn t figure out how to enable digital out although i m sure if i put enough time into it could have gotten it working also when playing mpNUMBERs in analog mode every time i switched between mpNUMBERs there was a bit of static noticed a new distribution geared towards audio applications agnula URL uses alsa as well seems though the latest open source emuNUMBERkNUMBER drivers sblive NUMBER NUMBER work fair enough anyone else experience these problems with alsa are there alot of people on this list using alsa regards lance on sat NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER angles puglisi wrote fyi this is how i make my alsa rpms some people on the null list did not realize it was pretty easy btw i do this lot since i ve upgraded from rhNUMBER NUMBER to limboNUMBER to limboNUMBER to null all in a week probably forward original mail from angles puglisi angles aminvestments com date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject re when are we going to get from angles puglisi angles aminvestments com to limbo list URL subject re when are we going to get date NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ok i do this every time i update a kernel the NUMBERst time i added alsa i tried a non root rpom build but the dev things were not made other than that i bet you could do non root the following can be scripted easily NUMBER get a alsa drivers b alas lib and c alsa utils tarballs if upgrading the kernel then you probably have them from your last install NUMBER unpack them somewhere NUMBER for each of them go to the top directory of the unpacked tarball and do configure then look in i m going by memory topdir utils you should see a spec file there do this for the NUMBER tarballs and you get NUMBER spec files NUMBER put the source tarballs in sources and the spec files in specs go in order from a b then c doing rpmbuild ba specs alsa x spec rpm uvh rpms iNUMBER alsa x rpm NUMBER do that in order for the NUMBER spec files and you have just installed the alsa drivers on your system the NUMBERst time you do this you need to put the correct stuff in your modules conf file may take some research then you get the alsa driver and oss compat capabilities or you can choose not to use the oos compat stuff script making the spec then building and upgrading as above and you have no sweat alsa note the null rpmbuild did take some tweaking it does a check for files in the buildroot that you don t specify in your files section in this case there is an extra file going by memory include sys asound h add a line at the end on the install section of the spec file to delete that file and you are good to go gordon messmer yinyang eburg com wrote on fri NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote probably when red hat linux gets a NUMBER NUMBER kernel until then a few places provide good quality alsa packages but indeed you still have to patch and recompile your kernel not so alsa is build able independently of the kernel maybe some day i ll try alsa never done it yet and that day you can expect all needed packages to appear on URL i d be interested in working with you on that if you want those packages _______________________________________________ limbo list mailing list limbo list URL that s angle as in geometry linux one stanza tip lost sub extracting lines x to y in a text file lost NUMBER use sed syntax sed n x yp textfile txt following will extract lines NUMBER NUMBER from textin fil to textout fil sed n NUMBER NUMBERp textin fil textout fil bish nde vsnl net in _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
once upon a time angles wrote fyi this is how i make my alsa rpms some people on the null list did not realize it was pretty easy thanks angles i really think i ll give alsa a shot fairly soon then matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote i ve repackaged the new gkrellm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which is now ported to gtkNUMBER woohoo unfortunately the plugins are incompatible with the previous NUMBER NUMBER x ones and since not many all have been ported yet i prefer not to release the package on the main URL site for now you could go the same way as the others and call it gkrellmNUMBER and conflict with vNUMBER if the executables or paths are the same hey you re right i don t want to call a destructor on my objects i want to call a destroyer gozer has come for your memory little persistentnode joel gluth _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
on mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote hi all i ve repackaged the new gkrellm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which is now ported to gtkNUMBER woohoo unfortunately the plugins are incompatible with the previous NUMBER NUMBER x ones and since not many all have been ported yet i prefer not to release the package on the main URL site for now for those of you who d like to try it out you can grab it here URL i think the themes are still compatible but haven t tried to install some with NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER yet last note the above packages are for valhalla and yes although gnome NUMBER is not in valhalla gtkNUMBER and glibNUMBER have been from the very beginning sweet dude i was really hoping it d be out sooner or later thanks a bunch brian fahrländer linux zealot conservative and technomad evansville in my voyage URL icq NUMBER i ve been complaining for years and almost no one listened windows is just easier you said i don t want to learn anything new you said tell me how easy this is URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
 made other than that i bet you could do non root the following can be scripted easily NUMBER unpack them somewhere NUMBER for each of them go to the top directory of the unpacked tarball and do configure then look in i m going by memory topdir utils you should see a spec file there do this for the NUMBER tarballs and you get NUMBER spec files the above steps can all be performed automatically if the spec files are updated to include the necessary macros in the prep setup q and build stages this would make the building of the rpm files less error prone and more self contained and it would be somewhat self documenting _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 original message from adam l beberg beberg mithral com memory management is a non issue for anyone that has any idea at all how the hardware functions in theory there is no difference between theory and practice in practice there is ,0
 URL making a mesh on the move a new way to give us fast mobile net access spells further trouble for NUMBERg reports peter rojas peter rojas thursday august NUMBER NUMBER the guardian imagine being able to surf the net at speeds faster than dsl from anywhere at any time you could watch a live video webcast while waiting for the bus email photos to your friends while sitting in the park or download the mpNUMBER of the song that s playing in the pub before it finishes this is the vision of a high speed wireless internet paradise that the third generation NUMBERg mobile phone companies have been promoting for years NUMBERg services are just beginning to be rolled out but a new technology called mesh networking promises to deliver on this vision sooner and more effectively than the mobile phone companies could ever dream two companies us startup meshnetworks and moteran networks of germany are each developing their own competing version of mesh networking instead of the current hub and spoke model of wireless communications with every device connecting to an overburdened central antenna any time mesh enabled devices mobile phones pdas laptops are in close proximity to each other they automatically create a wireless mesh network every device in the area acts as a repeater or router relaying traffic for everyone else traffic hops from person to person until it reaches the nearest internet access point reducing the need for central antennas and improving wireless coverage as the number of mobile phones soars and wireless pdas laptops and other devices begin to crowd the spectrum this approach to wireless networking may be inevitable mesh networks also have several other advantages over NUMBERg wireless networks while NUMBERg operators roll out mobile services that offer users connection speeds of up to NUMBER kbps roughly three times faster than a dial up modem moteran and meshnetworks are able to offer connection speeds of up to NUMBERmbps over a hundred times faster than dial up the technologies they use include wi fi the emerging standard for high speed wireless networking also known as NUMBER NUMBERb a similarly short range protocol called ultrawideband which is poised to succeed wi fi is even faster and could by NUMBER approach NUMBER mbps the range of a typical wi fi network is generally too limited to be of much use when travelling around a city mesh networks get around the problem of coverage by having every device in the network relay traffic even though the range of any individual device is relatively small because in theory there will be so many users in the surrounding area connections will be faster and better than that of a standard NUMBERg wireless connection because mesh networks use wi fi the equipment and infrastructure needed to create them is cheap and readily available instead of building cellular phone towers that often cost hundreds of thousands of pounds all that is needed to get a network going are wireless access points around NUMBER now placed strategically around town to relay traffic and the proper software existing laptops and pdas can be mesh enabled by software it also means that anyone could set up their own mobile phone network unlike with NUMBERg cellular the part of the spectrum that wi fi operates on is unregulated in the us britain the mobile phone companies are none too pleased about this especially since many of them spent billions of pounds acquiring NUMBERg licences all that s needed are cheap relays and mobile phones equipped to connect to the network with every additional customer that signs up coverage gets better instead of getting worse as is the case with mobile phone networks but things get very interesting when you realise that when you have high speed internet connections everywhere and everyone s laptops pdas and mobile phones are connected together at blazingly fast speeds sharing music movies or whatever else becomes ridiculously easy when ultrawideband hits all of this will just accelerate at NUMBERmbps copying a pirated copy of the lord of the rings from the person sitting across from you at the cafe would take about NUMBER seconds sooner or later playgrounds will be filled with kids swapping files of their favourite songs movies and video games but the first mesh networks are not likely to be available to consumers meshnetworks has no plans to offer its own high speed wireless service instead the company plans to sell its technology to others such as cities that want to provide wireless internet to police fire and public works employees or businesses that want to establish wireless networks on the cheap moteran has similar aspirations for small businesses and for enterprise networks the first place average users may use the technology is when it is incorporated into vehicles enabling motorists to access the internet at high speeds which both companies see happening soon when will you be able to wander around town with a NUMBERmbps connection in your pocket it s too soon to say but just as broadband internet service was initially available only to businesses and universities eventually someone will see the profit in bringing mesh networking to the masses ,0
on NUMBER sep NUMBER rosso wrote john waylan who was interviewed in wired a few years back pulled out a NUMBER NUMBER second run in the quarter mile NUMBERmph on a battery pack that hasn t been broken in yet he expects to break his record next year topping his NUMBER NUMBERsec NUMBERmph run a couple of years ago he s shooting for a NUMBER second run battery pack huh what you dont use batteries for a NUMBER NUMBER mile run you use capacitors many times the energy density and you can get the energy out fast enough note that the battery packs are fully swapped out for recharging after each run anyway just like a gas dragster is refueled so this wouldnt be cheating NUMBER mph should be no problem adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER adam l beberg wrote battery pack huh what you dont use batteries for a NUMBER NUMBER mile run you use capacitors many times actually you use both the energy density and you can get the energy out fast enough note that no even best supercapacitors are a long way to go from reasonably good electrochemical energy sources but you can recharge and discharge them very quickly and they take lots more of cycles than the best battery ideal for absorbing the braking energy and turn them into smoking tires few moments or minutes afterwards the battery packs are fully swapped out for recharging after each run anyway just like a gas dragster is refueled so this wouldnt be cheating NUMBER mph should be no problem i don t see any reason why evs shouldn t dominate dragster runs the traction is the limiting factor not motor power you can basically put the motors into wheelhubs mounted on a composite frame and dump juice into them until they melt which will be some NUMBER sec downstream plenty of time to smoke anything of course it doesn t roar and spew smokage so it won t happen ,0
 i stand corrected i d thought i d seen a display there listing in the ben franklin museum which showed them as ranging in age from NUMBER to just over NUMBER for the oldest most in their early twenties gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
 another thing to note about australia is that while the highest income tax bracket NUMBER isn t that high it kicks in at around usdNUMBER NUMBER and it looks like ppp for usd NUMBERk is only about usd NUMBERk at least in big macs URL australia a NUMBER NUMBER usd NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER us NUMBER NUMBER usd NUMBER NUMBER switzerland sfrNUMBER NUMBER usd NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER interestingly enough although housing in perth seems cheap housing in switzerland doesn t seem to be as expensive as the big macs would imply dave which still doesn t sound bad if one can convert urban ca equity into free and clear oz ownership ,0
on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER russell turpin wrote for the most part these were angry middle aged men a column in this table shows their age at the time mainly they were a bunch of rich people the white old male is irrelivant but how it happened to be at the time that didnt want to pay their taxes to da man er king so they had a revolution and formed a no tax zone leading to a very fast growing economy and dreams for all amazing what an economy without NUMBER of everything disappearing to taxes it was a great many years before their were federal taxes in the us now we give rich men who dont want to pay any taxes corporations to run with enough writeoffs and loopholes that they dont have to pay any adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
i used async io on system v in the NUMBER NUMBER time frame i did it that way cause i thought it was cool to see if i could keep the tape spinning i can believe linux is catching up to this but some ability to do async io already existed in the unix world john hall NUMBER NUMBERth ave ne kirkland wa NUMBER original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of adam l beberg sent saturday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject gasp red hat linux advanced server provides many high end features such as support for asynchronous i o now read i o no longer needs to stall your application while waiting for completion could it be after NUMBER years without this feature unix finally catches up to windows and has i o that doesnt totally suck for nontrivial apps no way ok so they do it with signals or a flag which is completely ghetto but at least they are trying keep trying guys you got the idea but not the clue adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER adam l beberg wrote it was a great many years before their were federal taxes in the us and during said period there were more than a few serious depressions amazing what economies tend to do with or without taxes luis ,0
congrats in the end if they didn t have max they might have succumbed because paypal was susceptible to fraud and money laundering and max tightened them up URL secure and at ease by jack mccarthy august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm pt max levchin s fascination with encryption started when he was a teenager in kiev ukraine and continued as he immigrated to the united states where he attended the university of illinois at urbana champaign in late NUMBER not two years out of college he drew on his passion to co found paypal the online payment system that has since attracted tens of millions of users and gained the reputation as the premier internet transaction processor now online auction house ebay has acquired his company for a king s ransom not bad for a NUMBER year old kid from ukraine a programmer since he was NUMBER years old levchin and his family moved to chicago in NUMBER and since then he has pursued security as if on a mission he created a startup right out of college to build secure passwords for palm pilots he met peter thiel and the two founded paypal to target online payment security thiel is now ceo of the company this company was founded on the notion of security value levchin says peter thiel and i shared that vision from the very beginning thiel concentrates on company business matters whereas levchin remains focused on security which he says is the key to the company s good fortune i explain paypal as a security company posing as a transaction processor levchin says we spend a lot of time designing security so it doesn t step on the toes of convenience and not the other way around the trade off is fundamental mountain view calif based paypal allows businesses and consumers with e mail addresses to send and receive payments via the internet accepting credit card or bank account payments for purchases the service extends to NUMBER countries with more than NUMBER million users and more than NUMBER million business accounts most of paypal s users are participants in online auctions which led paypal to be closely linked with ebay the leading web auction site although they were once rivals the relationship between the two companies resulted july NUMBER in ebay s tentative NUMBER NUMBER billion acquisition of paypal the agreement is subject to regulatory review levchin says he will stay at paypal as it merges with ebay there are areas of synergy and collaboration we can explore although security is a dominant feature for paypal the company s ability to carry out open communications among the millions of participants fits the growing web services model levchin says this is a service that links people and allows them to send messages to one another he says levchin is a panelist at infoworld s next generation web services ii conference sept NUMBER paypal as an online payment system is a natural target for fraud and levchin has almost singlehandedly saved the company from thieves bent on exploiting the system says avivah litan a vice president and analyst covering financial services at stamford conn based gartner if they didn t have max they might have succumbed because paypal was susceptible to fraud and money laundering and max tightened them up litan says to combat criminals levchin established igor an antifraud program that monitors transactions and warns of suspicious accounts levchin says building security and antifraud systems is a job he relishes the work i do is important to paypal and to consumers in general because the work makes internet shopping safe it s the view that ecommerce has arrived ,0
of course we ve had select since bsd NUMBER NUMBER and poll since system v or so and they work reasonably well for asynchronous i o up to a hundred or so channels but suck after that dev poll available in solaris and linux is one approach to solving this linux has a way to do essentially the same thing with real time signals and has for years and freebsd has kqueue more details about these are at URL none of this helps with disk i o most programs that need to overlap disk i o with computation on either proprietary unixes or linux just use multiple threads or processes to handle the disk i o posix specifies a mechanism for nonblocking disk i o that most proprietary unixes implement the linux kernel hackers are currently rewriting linux s entire i o subsystem essentially from scratch to work asynchronously because they can easily build efficient synchronous i o primitives from asynchronous ones but not the other way around so now linux will support this mechanism too it probably doesn t need saying for anyone who s read beberg saying things like memory management is a non issue for anyone that has any idea at all how the hardware functions but he s totally off base people should know by now not to take anything he says seriously but apparently some don t so i ll rebut not surprisingly the rebuttal requires many more words than the original stupid errors in detail he wrote could it be after NUMBER years without this feature unix finally catches up to windows and has i o that doesnt sic totally suck for nontrivial apps no way unix acquired nonblocking i o in the form of select about NUMBER years ago and solaris has had the particular aio_ calls we are discussing for many years very few applications need the aio_ calls essentially only high performance rdbms servers even benefit from them at all and most of those have been faking it fine for a while with multiple threads or processes this just provides a modicum of extra performance ok so they do it with signals or a flag which is completely ghetto but at least they are trying keep trying guys you got the idea but not the clue readers can judge who lacks the clue here the windows i o model does definately sic blow the doors off the unix one but then they had select to point at in it s sic suckiness and anything would have been an improvement unix is just now looking at it s sic i o model and adapting to a multiprocess multithreaded world so it s gonna be years yet before a posix api comes out of it although i don t have a copy of the spec handy i think the aio_ apis come from the posix spec ieee std NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER section NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which is NUMBER years old and which i think documented then current practice they might be even older than that unix has been multiprocess since NUMBER and most unix implementations have supported multithreading for a decade or more bottom line is the do stuff when something happens model turned out to be right and the unix look for something to do and keep looking till you find it no matter how many times you have to look is not really working so great anymore linux s aio_ routines can notify the process of their completion with a signal a feature missing in microsoft windows a signal causes the immediate execution of a signal handler in a process by contrast the microsoft windows mechanisms to do similar things such as completion ports do not deliver a notification until the process polls them i don t think signals are a better way to do things in this case although i haven t written any rdbmses myself but you got the technical descriptions of the two operating systems exactly backwards most programs that use linux real time signals for asynchronous network i o in fact block the signal in question and poll the signal queue in a very windowsish way using sigtimedwait or sigwaitinfo kragen pobox com kragen sitaker URL edsger wybe dijkstra died in august of NUMBER this is a terrible loss after which the world will never be the same URL ,0
ah this is the car i ve seen on discovery channel but url via a lurker URL adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
adam l beberg wrote on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER kragen sitaker wrote entire post included yep he sure did but thanks for reminding us ,0
on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER kragen sitaker wrote of course we ve had select since bsd NUMBER NUMBER and poll since system v or so and they work reasonably well for asynchronous i o up to a hundred or so channels but suck after that dev poll available in solaris and linux is one approach to solving this linux has a way to do essentially the same thing with real time signals and has for years and freebsd has kqueue more details about these are at URL none of this helps with disk i o most programs that need to overlap disk i o with computation on either proprietary unixes or linux just use multiple threads or processes to handle the disk i o posix specifies a mechanism for nonblocking disk i o that most proprietary unixes implement the linux kernel hackers are currently rewriting linux s entire i o subsystem essentially from scratch to work asynchronously because they can easily build efficient synchronous i o primitives from asynchronous ones but not the other way around so now linux will support this mechanism too it probably doesn t need saying for anyone who s read beberg saying things like memory management is a non issue for anyone that has any idea at all how the hardware functions but he s totally off base people should know by now not to take anything he says seriously but apparently some don t so i ll rebut not surprisingly the rebuttal requires many more words than the original stupid errors in detail he wrote could it be after NUMBER years without this feature unix finally catches up to windows and has i o that doesnt sic totally suck for nontrivial apps no way unix acquired nonblocking i o in the form of select about NUMBER years ago and solaris has had the particular aio_ calls we are discussing for many years very few applications need the aio_ calls essentially only high performance rdbms servers even benefit from them at all and most of those have been faking it fine for a while with multiple threads or processes this just provides a modicum of extra performance ok so they do it with signals or a flag which is completely ghetto but at least they are trying keep trying guys you got the idea but not the clue readers can judge who lacks the clue here the windows i o model does definately sic blow the doors off the unix one but then they had select to point at in it s sic suckiness and anything would have been an improvement unix is just now looking at it s sic i o model and adapting to a multiprocess multithreaded world so it s gonna be years yet before a posix api comes out of it although i don t have a copy of the spec handy i think the aio_ apis come from the posix spec ieee std NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER section NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which is NUMBER years old and which i think documented then current practice they might be even older than that unix has been multiprocess since NUMBER and most unix implementations have supported multithreading for a decade or more bottom line is the do stuff when something happens model turned out to be right and the unix look for something to do and keep looking till you find it no matter how many times you have to look is not really working so great anymore linux s aio_ routines can notify the process of their completion with a signal a feature missing in microsoft windows a signal causes the immediate execution of a signal handler in a process by contrast the microsoft windows mechanisms to do similar things such as completion ports do not deliver a notification until the process polls them i don t think signals are a better way to do things in this case although i haven t written any rdbmses myself but you got the technical descriptions of the two operating systems exactly backwards most programs that use linux real time signals for asynchronous network i o in fact block the signal in question and poll the signal queue in a very windowsish way using sigtimedwait or sigwaitinfo kragen pobox com kragen sitaker URL edsger wybe dijkstra died in august of NUMBER this is a terrible loss after which the world will never be the same URL adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
 begin forwarded text from a guy who models plasma all day to r a hettinga rah shipwright com subject re electric car an edsel date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bob this capacitor drive idea isn t completely stupid but neither is it well thought out maxwell www maxwell com makes and sells high energy density capacitors called ultracapacitors they deliver them in an air cooled voltage regulated module that will charge to NUMBER v and hold NUMBER kilojoules roughly the energy in NUMBER teaspoons of sugar or a bite of a donut and weighs NUMBER kilograms if that electrical energy could all be converted to kinetic energy there s enough to get the capacitor module up to about NUMBER mph in a vacuum suppose you take the entire power density of the capacitor module NUMBER NUMBER kw kg NUMBER hp kg and punch it through an electric motor how much does the NUMBER hp electric motor weigh if it were as little as NUMBER kg and i bet it isn t that capacitor and motor would have a top speed of NUMBER mph the speed at which their energy is the NUMBER kj that was initially stored electrically in the capacitor and it s not at all obvious that the torque vs speed characteristic of NUMBER v dc motors will support this or how they do it without wheels drive train etc but if they can they can only do it in a vacuum where there is no drag on to the lunarnationals or would you prefer the bite of donut somebody s sig original message from r a hettinga rah shipwright com to vinnie moscaritolo vinnie vmeng com randolph elliott elliott engineous com nicholasfc aol com duncan goldie scot dgs btinternet com g gruff g_gruff yahoo com michael frese numerex com sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject re electric car an edsel begin forwarded text status ro delivered to fork URL from adam l beberg beberg URL to rosso fork ordersomewherechaos com cc fork URL subject re electric car an edsel sender fork admin URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt on NUMBER sep NUMBER rosso wrote john waylan who was interviewed in wired a few years back pulled out a NUMBER NUMBER second run in the quarter mile NUMBERmph on a battery pack that hasn t been broken in yet he expects to break his record next year topping his NUMBER NUMBERsec NUMBERmph run a couple of years ago he s shooting for a NUMBER second run battery pack huh what you dont use batteries for a NUMBER NUMBER mile run you use capacitors many times the energy density and you can get the energy out fast enough note that the battery packs are fully swapped out for recharging after each run anyway just like a gas dragster is refueled so this wouldnt be cheating NUMBER mph should be no problem adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER russell turpin wrote of the NUMBER signers of the declaration of independence only two were in their twenties at the time their average age was forty five there were no teenagers fourteen were over fifty ben franklin was the oldest at seventy for the most part these were angry middle aged men i think it was george carlin who said something to the effect that young men in general are boring but around fifty men either have everything they ever wanted or have almost nothing of what they wanted either of which makes them behave quite interestingly cheers rah r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups george carlin ,0
glad they finally figured this one out note the very careful wording so exhaust may be beneficial to ones health as long as you have a glass a day with some cheese interesting timing since NUMBER NUMBER truckers just lost their jobs and dont have to worry about death from this anymore adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL epa diesel exhaust can cause cancer wed sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am et by h josef hebert associated press writer washington ap inhaling diesel exhausts from large trucks and other sources over time can cause cancer in humans an environmental protection agency news web sites report concludes after a decade of study the epa finding released tuesday is expected to buttress the government s push to reduce truck tailpipe emissions by requiring cleaner burning engines and diesel fuel with ultra low sulfur content while acknowledging uncertainties about the long term health effects of exposure to diesel exhausts the epa report said studies involving both animal tests and occupational exposure suggest strong evidence of a cancer risk to humans it is reasonable to presume that the hazard extends to environmental exposure levels as well the report said the potential human health effects of diesel exhausts is persuasive even though assumptions and uncertainties are involved the report mirrors conclusions made previously in documents from various world health agencies and studies in california and is particularly significant because the epa is the federal agency that regulates diesel emissions under the clean air act some environmentalists have raised concerns recently that the bush administration might try to back away from a clinton era regulation that would establish tougher requirements on emissions from large trucks and a separate rule that virtually would eliminate sulfur from diesel fuel epa administrator christie whitman repeatedly has promised to go ahead with the tougher truck and diesel rules last month with white house approval the epa rebuffed attempts by some diesel engine manufacturers to postpone the requirements approving new penalties against manufacturers who fail to meet an october deadline for making cleaner burning truck engines the engine rule does not affect emissions from trucks already on the road although the separate regulation cutting the amount of sulfur in diesel fuel is expected to produce pollution reductions the epa s NUMBER page diesel health assessment did not attempt to estimate the probability of an individual getting cancer given certain exposure to diesel exhaust such a risk assessment is commonly made by the epa when gauging pollution health concerns but in this case the report said the exposure response data are considered too uncertain to produce a confident quantitative estimate of cancer risk to an individual nevertheless said the report the totality of evidence from human animal and other supporting studies suggests that diesel exhaust is likely to be carcinogenic to humans by inhalation and that this hazard applies to environmental exposure the report reiterated that environmental exposure to diesel exhausts poses short term health problems and in the long term has been shown to be a chronic respiratory hazard to humans contributing to increased asthma and other respiratory problems in some urban areas diesel exhausts account for as much as a quarter of the airborne microscopic soot the report said environmentalists welcomed the study as clear evidence that pollution needs to be curtailed not only from large trucks but also from off road diesel powered vehicles epa spokeswoman steffanie bell said the agency expects to publish a rule early next year dealing with those diesel exhaust sources which include farm tractors and construction equipment emily figdor of the u s public interest research group a private environmental organization said to reduce the public s exposure to harmful diesel emissions the bush administration should fully implement clean air standards for diesel trucks and buses and should pass equivalent standards for diesel construction and farm equipment allen schaeffer executive director of the industry group diesel technology forum said the epa s report focused on the past whereas the future is clean diesel diesel trucks and buses built today are more than eight times cleaner than just a dozen years ago the report acknowledged that its findings were based on emissions levels in the mid NUMBERs but said the results continued to be valid because the slow turnover of truck engines has kept many of these vehicles on the road ,0
hindus mourn monkey god by omer farooq bbc reporter in hyderabad hundreds of people have attended the funeral of a monkey which became revered as a divine incarnation of a hindu god in the southern indian state of andhra pradesh the monkey was quite old and both its hind legs were paralysed animal rights campaigners say the monkey died of starvation and exhaustion after being trapped in a temple for a month by over zealous worshippers the animal was cremated in anantapur district NUMBER kilometres NUMBER miles south of the state capital hyderabad on sunday it had not eaten for three weeks last rites were performed by priests in the village of timmiganipally in the presence of hundreds of devotees who had come to believe that the monkey was a reincarnation of the hindu monkey god hanuman garlanded one animal rights activist said his group s efforts to save the monkey had failed because of the blind faith of the people the monkey s death came a day after he and others tried to move the animal out of the temple but were prevented by villagers the monkey which was found perched on top of an idol of hanuman a month ago attracted hundreds of devotees every day from surrounding villages as well as from the neighbouring state of karnataka devotees showered the monkey with fruit and flowers and worshipped it around the clock exploited locals said they believed that lord hanuman was visiting the village as the temple had stopped daily rituals after a dispute between two groups of residents but animal rights campaigners complained that the animal was being mistreated they filed a petition in the state s high court saying the monkey had been forcibly confined in the temple the group also alleged that people s religious feelings were being exploited to make money the court then ordered the local administration to rescue the monkey but villagers prevented officials from taking him for treatment in time ,0
hindus got NUMBER billion gods so losing one is no big deal really its just sick that they killed an innocent animal which doesn t even know the concept of god sateesh tom tomwhore slack net wrote hindus mourn monkey god by omer farooq bbc reporter in hyderabad hundreds of people have attended the funeral of a monkey which became revered as a divine incarnation of a hindu god in the southern indian state of andhra pradesh the monkey was quite old and both its hind legs were paralysed animal rights campaigners say the monkey died of starvation and exhaustion after being trapped in a temple for a month by over zealous worshippers the animal was cremated in anantapur district NUMBER kilometres NUMBER miles south of the state capital hyderabad on sunday it had not eaten for three weeks last rites were performed by priests in the village of timmiganipally in the presence of hundreds of devotees who had come to believe that the monkey was a reincarnation of the hindu monkey god hanuman garlanded one animal rights activist said his group s efforts to save the monkey had failed because of the blind faith of the people the monkey s death came a day after he and others tried to move the animal out of the temple but were prevented by villagers the monkey which was found perched on top of an idol of hanuman a month ago attracted hundreds of devotees every day from surrounding villages as well as from the neighbouring state of karnataka devotees showered the monkey with fruit and flowers and worshipped it around the clock exploited locals said they believed that lord hanuman was visiting the village as the temple had stopped daily rituals after a dispute between two groups of residents but animal rights campaigners complained that the animal was being mistreated they filed a petition in the state s high court saying the monkey had been forcibly confined in the temple the group also alleged that people s religious feelings were being exploited to make money the court then ordered the local administration to rescue the monkey but villagers prevented officials from taking him for treatment in time __________________________________________________ do you yahoo yahoo finance get real time stock quotes URL ,0
so like many young children my daughter tatum age NUMBER months really likes music she also likes to have control over her environment and this means she wants to be the one putting cds into the cd player and getting the music playing by watching tatum i ve discovered that you can learn a lot about ui design from watching NUMBER month olds use technology there is definitely a market niche for a toddler friendly cd mpNUMBER player the cd player we have combines play and pause in a single button but doesn t provide instantaneous feedback that the button was pushed instead requiring you to wait until the music starts NUMBER NUMBER seconds this is a ui disaster since tatum doesn t get feedback right away she presses the button again thereby pausing the cd before it even plays she ll only ever get music if she presses the button an odd number of times this happens a surprising amount of the time since she eventually hits the button again when the music doesn t play for toddlers pressing play must cause the music to start immediately within half a second for the toddler to get the causality and not press the button multiple times as well pressing the button multiple times shouldn t change the semantics like an elevator button no matter how many times you press the elevator still comes to that floor the play button needs to be the same the back hinged door mechanism feeding the cd into the player is also a ui disaster for tatum since the door hinges on the back tatum has to angle cds to put them in and take them out putting cds in isn t much of a problem but taking them out is since tatum grabs cds by the back edge that edge comes out first hitting the lid tatum eventually forces and wiggles the cd out a process that s hard on the cd and the player but which hasn t yet resulted in the cd player being broken surprisingly it hasn t been a problem getting the cd hole onto the spindle tatum seems to understand this concept and the cd load area geometry naturally guides the cd tatum s cd player also plays tapes and has fm radio for a toddler this is a mistake tatum doesn t understand the need to flick a switch to put the player into a specific mode she understands putting a cd in and pressing the play button she sometimes understands the buttons for advancing a song but uses them erratically as well the radio feature has both fm mono and fm stero a distinction totally lost on tatum tatum only understands the binary distinction of music no music what would the ideal toddler cd player be like it would immediately start playing a cd after it was loaded as soon as the cd load door was closed it would give some audible feedback it would have a single large play button the other typical cd controls would be larger than normal but at least half the size of the play button and located far away from the play button so there is no chance of them getting accidentally pressed on the way to play the play button would be a bright color that is different from the color of the player and different from the color of the other cd control keys the device would only play cds no other functions the cd load area would flip open at least NUMBER degrees it should be small approachable for a toddler it should be possible to repeatedly drop the player from a height of NUMBER NUMBER without affecting the player jim ,0
 our preschoolers NUMBER and NUMBER use winamp with a pokemon skin it s the NUMBER yr old who figured out he could put it into a sidebar menu so all he need do is click there to launch their favourite mpNUMBER playlist what we need is a good barely literate email program years ago the university of hawaii had a word processor that included a voice assist and also would pop up menus for common completions as words were typed even further back there was a dos shareware editor that did that latter function extremely well targetted at the handicapped with just those little bits of assists maybe some clever use of pictograms too i bet kindergarten kids could handle email gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
 this just blew my mind URL the detail of my neighborhood even my building is unbelievable ,0
shouldn t a politician know not to tell the truth odds he s impeached by next monday ob no clue how they remove mayors in italy ouch ouch ouch get sexier keep husbands mayor tells wives wed sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am et missaglia italy reuters husband s eyes wandering make yourself sexier at least that s the solution proposed by an italian mayor and a woman mayor at that wives in the northern town of missaglia had complained to mayor marta casiraghi about a young woman who sunbathed topless on her terrace they complained that the men in the town of some NUMBER NUMBER people were spending too much time ogling so they asked casiraghi to order the woman to put her clothes back on but the mayor far from sympathizing told the wives to get sexy if they wanted to keep their men the girl was very pretty and was soaking up some sun topless sunbathing is largely tolerated and widespread nowadays there s nothing we can do casiraghi told il nuovo a web based newspaper instead i d advise the wives to play their rival at her own game make themselves more beautiful ,0
jim whitehead wrote great this is half of what i d need to become spider man now all i need to figure out is how to do that spider web shooting thing heheheh so becomming a university professor was your second career choice seriously though or not as the case may be the amazing spiderman had many other abilities to help him out most notable perhaps was his spidey strength and spidey senses the strength to weight ratio of a spider is so high that spiderman is able to throw a bus several city blocks with little effort his endurance is similarly enhanced as well as for the spidey senses well they re really great but afaik not really well explained in the comic series spiders have multiple eyes ears noses and tongues which peter parker did not visibly have there have been a few attempts to explain his heightened reflexes from the biological to hidden methamphetamine use but none seem to do the spidey sense justice i seem to recall spiderman being able to detect the presence of well concealed weapons and even sense evil doers while they were in their street clothes perhaps the spidey senses are the result of some sort of quantum entanglement elias ,0
 snip misc rants about finding jobs java vs c what makes a good programmer etc snip okay hmm i thought twice about this but what the hey jobs are hard to come by there s a company hiring in mountain view looking for a few good hackers no java no gui not even c just c and linux and networking and good old stuff like that they just raised a wad of money and they re looking for a few really good programmers says the cto i know him very smart guy drives too fast though for what that s worth joe bob says check it out i d be happy to pass on your resume or you can send it straight to them probably won t matter if i pass it on since i don t know you guys anyway URL sherry original message from joseph s barrera iii mailto joe barrera org sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to adam l beberg cc fork URL subject re java is for kiddies adam l beberg wrote forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job i was talking about the open reqs at kana the company i work for oh but programming in java is beneath you nope just lacking years and years of it for some silly reason people always want things to be reliable fast and cross platform so all my employers have forced me to code in c c is more reliable than java as for cross platform c exists on more platforms but a java program is much easier to move from one platform to another so i m not sure what you mean i m not trying to fight a language war but i m puzzled by the depth of your anti java hatred i know lots of high school kiddies with plenty of java tho not having to teach people about pointers or optimization or anything shaves years off the coder boot time i ll send them your way when they graduate pointers so a language has to have pointers to be real and references don t count i gather what s so great about pointers why do you miss them if your doing embedded stuff fine yes you need the performance and control over memory that c provides probably but if your implementing tier n NUMBER of a tier n system and pounding against a database then java is often a very reasonable choice especially if you want that system to run without leaking memory optimization who says you can t optimize java i can and have and there are good tools that allow you to do it i use optimizeit but usually i find myself optimizing reducing database accesses instead i sped one part of the system up by a factor of ten by grouping more operations into fewer transactions but this is beside the point if you have decent c experience and have poked around in java you should be able to convince most employers that you can be trusted writing java that s what i did i mean i joined kana from microsoft and i didn t exactly write a lot of java code at microsoft i m not displeased you re trying to help just frustrated that employers can demand such rediculous combinations of skills with insane years of experience i don t think i ve ever interviewed at a place where i actually met all the prerequisites do you just give up when you don t interview tommorow with kodak doing i have no idea what as the recruiter isnt even sure but cross your fingers it wont require NUMBER years of java and NUMBER years of windows ia NUMBER s device driver experience both common requirements i wish you best of luck and i apologies for being a bitch but god damn you piss me off sometimes my son occasionally displays your can t do attitude and i do my damnest to get him to reverse course joe ,0
someone needs to tell the mayor about this URL kinkily yours cindy on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER adam l beberg wrote shouldn t a politician know not to tell the truth odds he s impeached by next monday ob no clue how they remove mayors in italy ouch ouch ouch get sexier keep husbands mayor tells wives wed sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am et missaglia italy reuters husband s eyes wandering make yourself sexier at least that s the solution proposed by an italian mayor and a woman mayor at that wives in the northern town of missaglia had complained to mayor marta casiraghi about a young woman who sunbathed topless on her terrace they complained that the men in the town of some NUMBER NUMBER people were spending too much time ogling so they asked casiraghi to order the woman to put her clothes back on but the mayor far from sympathizing told the wives to get sexy if they wanted to keep their men the girl was very pretty and was soaking up some sun topless sunbathing is largely tolerated and widespread nowadays there s nothing we can do casiraghi told il nuovo a web based newspaper instead i d advise the wives to play their rival at her own game make themselves more beautiful i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
 sl snip sl misc rants about finding jobs java vs c what makes a good programmer etc sl snip snip sl okay hmm i thought twice about this but what the hey jobs are hard to sl come by there s a company hiring in mountain view looking for a few good snip i give adam an hour or so to come up with an adequate number of excuses as to why this job isn t worth it go adam go ,0
 a groys gesheft zol er hobn mit shroyre vus er hot zol men bay im nit fregn un vos men fregt zol er nisht hobn and if that aint the truth nutin is ,0
 original message from jim whitehead ejw cse ucsc edu for toddlers pressing play must cause the music to start immediately within half a second for the toddler to get the causality and not press the button multiple times or some sound indicating that the music will start real soon now as well pressing the button multiple times shouldn t change the semantics like an elevator button no matter how many times you press the elevator still comes to that floor the play button needs to be the same idempotency everywhere you look what would the ideal toddler cd player be like it would immediately start playing a cd after it was loaded it d be an mpNUMBER player with solid state storage instant on ,0
 e elias sinderson elias cse ucsc edu writes e the strength to weight ratio of a spider is so high e that spiderman is able to throw a bus several city blocks with e little effort his endurance is similarly enhanced as well could this be as simple as a modified molecular structure where the humanoid cells are in fact exo skeletally structured with more atoms per cubic angstrom to achieve the distance squared tensile strength enhancements we find when we introduce smaller metal atoms between the lattice packed grid of iron atoms to create steel this steel effect might give bone structure and tendons dramatically several orders of magnitude more tensile strength without the need to significantly increase the weight like magnesium alloy or carbon fiber weight compared to iron spidey could even be way under weight only increasing tensile strength could accommodate the mobility and leverage feats since bones are actually formed from bubbles of organic material hydrolically assisted tensile strength cross sectionally would give his frame the strength to withstand the muscular enhancement e as for the spidey senses well they re really great but afaik e not really well explained in the comic series if the same close packing gap filling arachne molecular structure modification occurs in neural tissues and there d be no reason to think that these would grow differently from bones and tendons then what we are seeing in spidey sense is no more than the heightened cerebral functions due to shorter faster stronger synapses throughout the entire nervous system since we know dogs and cats measure human emotions by smell clearly hearing the heartbeats and other subtle clues within their normal sensory ranges but seem mystical to us for peter parker everything from air currents on his facial hairs to extremely subtle hormone smells might coallesce into a general gestalt of spidey sense don t forget that he d acquired this ability in adolescence and thus would lack any cultural or even pathological basis to explain the heightened awareness to himself in anything but mystical terms we know from issue NUMBER that his collision avoidance reflex response time was far swifter than his cognitive awareness since he found himself already stuck to the tree when the bicycle was already past and hence his disorientation you ok mister as if it was a hallucination hmmm it may even be physio psychologically interesting to examine if peter parker s personal quandries arose _because_ his physiological spidey infrastructure had been advanced whereas his psychological perception of his self had not ie peter was not spiderman but just the driver of the bus only unlike ourselves he found his self driving a body vehicle not evolutionarily matched to his cognitive time scales gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
mr fork writes jim whitehead writes for toddlers pressing play must cause the music to start immediately within half a second for the toddler to get the causality and not press the button multiple times or some sound indicating that the music will start real soon now a tonal countdown would be nice what would the ideal toddler cd player be like it would immediately start playing a cd after it was loaded it d be an mpNUMBER player with solid state storage instant on hmm seems like every cd player should include the capability to rip encode and cache the last few cds inserted playback would then never need to face seek delays after the initial ripping the only use of the laser pickup would be recognizing which cd is inserted which might be doable faster than a seek and start at first track operation you could also take the cd out while it is playing hmm if the cd is still in the cache maybe you don t even have to insert it or choose it from a step through ui instead you just wave it at an electronic eye of some sort and the player recognizes it from the silkscreening kids would like that play this they d say facing the cd at the player and the player would start immediately gordon ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER gordon mohr wrote hmm seems like every cd player should include the capability to rip encode and cache the last few cds inserted there are companies doing just that but given the current state of the drm sceen and the litigiouness of the riaa who wants to go down like circus seals ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER mr fork wrote it d be an mpNUMBER player with solid state storage instant on getting new media on is a bit out of the reach of the kindala with a cd solution you hand em a disc and in it goes tradeoffs abound heather got a cd player when she was NUMBER even though it was a crappy handmedown it worked great other than the batterys poping out bad bad ui there her next one was a store bought its an all audio player no mpNUMBER decoders for her yet i wanted to do the bottom line volt but momala put the kabash on anything costing over NUMBER bucks heck i had to scrounge ebay to get her a palm mNUMBER for about NUMBER bucks the only hitch is new music upshot is we spend time going over usenet listing togther its a happy family now for benjamin yea id love to have something like the amazingly cool fisher price my first cd casset vasectomy dirtybomb products perhaps the my first cd might work time to let ebay do the walking ,0
 jim whitehead ejw cse ucsc edu writes the cd player we have combines play and pause in a single button but doesn t provide instantaneous feedback that the button was pushed instead requiring you to wait until the music starts NUMBER NUMBER seconds this is a ui disaster since tatum doesn t get feedback right away she presses the button again thereby pausing the cd before it even plays she ll only ever get music if she presses the button an odd number of times this happens a surprising amount of the time since she eventually hits the button again when the music doesn t play nice to hear that somebody else does this too karl anderson kra URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER tom wrote a groys gesheft zol er hobn mit shroyre vus er hot zol men bay im nit fregn un vos men fregt zol er nisht hobn and if that aint the truth nutin is a nice curse don t get shroyre though ,0
bitbitch URL writes sl snip sl misc rants about finding jobs java vs c what makes a good programmer etc sl snip snip sl okay hmm i thought twice about this but what the hey jobs are hard to sl come by there s a company hiring in mountain view looking for a few good snip i give adam an hour or so to come up with an adequate number of excuses as to why this job isn t worth it URL along with your resume please answer this question what does this c statement do define xy s m s NUMBER m besides provide job security karl anderson kra URL URL ,0
 now for benjamin yea id love to have something like the amazingly cool fisher price my first cd casset vasectomy dirtybomb products perhaps the my first cd might work time to let ebay do the walking sony makes such a line of products my father was legendary for his abilty to break things his thumbs of death would rival anything a toddler could do to devices after countless numbers of walkman devices having their lids broken or buttons pressed into oblivion i found the sony devices i got him a my first sony be afraid of the marketing cd player it was fire engine red but was completely indestructible i hacked a headphone jack into it and gave it to him he complained of it s looks but used it nonetheless i also gave him a pack of headphones as there s no such things indestuctible headphones that aren t obscenely bulky now that we re riding up the curve of an ever increasing geezer population how soon before device makers get wise not to be morbid but would the marketing be my last sony ducks and runs bill kearney ,0
eirikur said this incident is an interesting microcosm of how society and law develop the women of this town are attempting to regulate competition the social standards mechanisms i expect that shame has already been tried have failed so legal is next the point could also be to hassle the sunbather for reasons not given in the story the sunbather has probably pissed off the complainers in other ways too law and society are wholeheartedly trivial big fuzzy concepts like sluts vs moms are convenient vehicles for petty disputes as often as not lucas ,0
 original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of karl anderson sent thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to bitbitch URL cc fork URL subject re re NUMBER java is for kiddies bitbitch URL writes sl snip sl misc rants about finding jobs java vs c what makes a good programmer etc sl snip snip sl okay hmm i thought twice about this but what the hey jobs are hard to sl come by there s a company hiring in mountain view looking for a few good snip i give adam an hour or so to come up with an adequate number of excuses as to why this job isn t worth it URL along with your resume please answer this question what does this c statement do define xy s m s NUMBER m besides provide job security this is more useful define containing_record address type field type pchar address pchar type NUMBER field bill ,0
i dunno bb women who like to be thought of this way should have the right to choose to be treated this way men too ahem my boy cleans washes clothes cooks fixes stuff etc and works the same number of hours i do sometimes more if he has to catch up with me i close him because he is industrious and creative and because he unfailingly makes my bed the minute i get out of it and boy NUMBER will be here soon to help boy NUMBER with other things such as pedicures backrubs and sure fucking lol along with the aforementioned chores adam can have his cake and eat it too if he can only find the right girl who has the same beliefs about gender roles that he has of course he has no clue where to look so we will be constantly laughing at him while he stumbles around in the dark cindy p s the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor only the order in which they move into my house smiles at chris p s NUMBER i m moving going to new orleans can t handle any more cab driving the summer sucked here on the ms gulf coast instead of rocking like it normally does wish me luck i m going to look for another computer job le sigh on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote hello adam thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote alb so you re saying that product bundling works good point sometimes i wish i was still in ca you deserve a good beating every so often anyone else want to do the honors alb and how is this any different from normal marriage exactly other then alb that the woman not only gets a man but one in a country where both she and alb her offspring will have actual opportunities oh and the lack of alb de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded choices mmkay for the nth time adam we don t live in the land of adam fantasy women actually are allowed to do things productive independent and entirely free of their male counterparts they aren t forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels sometimes and this will come as a shock to you no doubt men and women even find love which is the crucial distinction between this system and they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together i know far fetched and idealistically crazy as it is but such things do happen i can guarantee you if my mother was approached by my father and NUMBER years ago he commented on her cleaning ability as a motivator for marrying her we would not be having this conversation now if guys still have silly antequated ideas about women s role then their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce again these situations are great provided everyone is aware that the relationship is a contractual one he wants a maid a dog and a prostitute he doesn t have to pay and she wants a country that isn t impoverished and teeming with aids a contract versus a true love interest marriage egh i really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent i blame law school and my cat bb alb adam l duncan beberg alb URL alb beberg URL i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
it s a fair trade imo same for some mid east bloke who s dying to marry american so he can start his own business but bb is right when the thrill is gone she should take his shit lol cindydrinking on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER adam l beberg wrote on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote again these situations are great provided everyone is aware that the relationship is a contractual one he wants a maid a dog and a prostitute he doesn t have to pay and she wants a country that isn t impoverished and teeming with aids you assume that they just match people up and marry them off and neither is attracted to the other which is not the case even this has arranged marrage beat by a long way males gets a wife for a while and if they actually like each other for a long time female gets into britan out of a country with no real rights for women no opportunities for her or her children out of the polution aids and an uncountable number of scary tropical diseases not to mention in most cases living conditions that us spoiled americans cannot even comprehend yea the women is definately getting tha bad end of the deal here you re so easy to taunt adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
someone has taken it mostly newtel users i think we can take the c i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
adam beberg writes shouldn t a politician know not to tell the truth odds he s impeached by as the article you forwarded explained in the second line of text this politician is a woman next monday ob no clue how they remove mayors in italy ob no clue full stop as in nearly all adam beberg posts kragen pobox com kragen sitaker URL edsger wybe dijkstra died in august of NUMBER the world has lost a great man see URL and URL for details ,0
on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote again these situations are great provided everyone is aware that the relationship is a contractual one he wants a maid a dog and a prostitute he doesn t have to pay and she wants a country that isn t impoverished and teeming with aids you assume that they just match people up and marry them off and neither is attracted to the other which is not the case even this has arranged marrage beat by a long way males gets a wife for a while and if they actually like each other for a long time female gets into britan out of a country with no real rights for women no opportunities for her or her children out of the polution aids and an uncountable number of scary tropical diseases not to mention in most cases living conditions that us spoiled americans cannot even comprehend yea the women is definately getting tha bad end of the deal here you re so easy to taunt adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
adam beberg writes on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER kragen sitaker wrote unix acquired nonblocking i o in the form of select about NUMBER years ago and solaris has had the particular aio_ calls we are discussing for many years select scaling is a joke at best and i know you know that poll is only a bit better not only do i know that the post to which you were responding explained that with somewhat more detail than a joke as you should know but evidently don t poll isn t even a bit better in fact it s about an order of magnitude worse for dense file descriptor sets which is the normal case except on operating systems where select isn t a system call but a library routine that calls poll very few applications need the aio_ calls essentially only high performance rdbms servers even benefit from them at all and most of those have been faking it fine for a while with multiple threads or processes this just provides a modicum of extra performance wrong it makes a huge difference in even what i consider small programs why don t you explain this in more detail although i don t have a copy of the spec handy i think the aio_ apis come from the posix spec ieee std NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER section NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which is NUMBER years old and which i think documented then current practice they might be even older than that yes sgi has a patch to the linux kernel to implement the aio_ interfaces but it s still not built in who knows when it will be the point is it s not portable in either case you originally said could it be after NUMBER years without this feature unix finally catches up to windows and has i o that doesnt sic totally suck for nontrivial apps no way the point my point the point i was discussing please don t try to tell me you were trying to make a different point because i don t care is that you had no clue what you were talking about unix hasn t been without this feature and in fact has had it since you were in elementary school and operating systems without it don t totally suck for nontrivial apps for what it s worth glibc has actually implemented the aio_ calls for a while just in a way that doesn t scale to large numbers of concurrent i o requests i find references to the glibc implementation as far back as NUMBER and glibc NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and i could probably find much earlier references if i had time URL more details at URL details on the sgi patch are at URL unix has been multiprocess since NUMBER and most unix implementations have supported multithreading for a decade or more and most unix is still kinda sorta supporting the pthreads posix interface each in their own NUMBER NUMBER implementation you re safe if you stick to the basics your original complaint was that unix didn t do multithreading or multiprogramming well now that i ve pointed out how obviously idiotic that claim is you ve amended your complaint now although individual unixes do these things well you complain that their implementations are not entirely conformant with the posix threads specification well that s probably true but i haven t written pthreads programs in c much myself so i can t confirm it from my own experience but even if it s true it s not a very good reason to prefer windows i m sure you can provide examples of bugs in particular threading implementations spare us just shut up kragen pobox com kragen sitaker URL edsger wybe dijkstra died in august of NUMBER the world has lost a great man see URL and URL for details ,0
on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote yet another case where marriage is actually an inappropriate word for these guys what they want is housekeeper dog and prostitute so you re saying that product bundling works good point and how is this any different from normal marriage exactly other then that the woman not only gets a man but one in a country where both she and her offspring will have actual opportunities oh and the lack of de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded choices adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
hello adam thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote alb so you re saying that product bundling works good point sometimes i wish i was still in ca you deserve a good beating every so often anyone else want to do the honors alb and how is this any different from normal marriage exactly other then alb that the woman not only gets a man but one in a country where both she and alb her offspring will have actual opportunities oh and the lack of alb de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded choices mmkay for the nth time adam we don t live in the land of adam fantasy women actually are allowed to do things productive independent and entirely free of their male counterparts they aren t forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels sometimes and this will come as a shock to you no doubt men and women even find love which is the crucial distinction between this system and they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together i know far fetched and idealistically crazy as it is but such things do happen i can guarantee you if my mother was approached by my father and NUMBER years ago he commented on her cleaning ability as a motivator for marrying her we would not be having this conversation now if guys still have silly antequated ideas about women s role then their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce again these situations are great provided everyone is aware that the relationship is a contractual one he wants a maid a dog and a prostitute he doesn t have to pay and she wants a country that isn t impoverished and teeming with aids a contract versus a true love interest marriage egh i really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent i blame law school and my cat bb alb adam l duncan beberg alb URL alb beberg URL best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
ah yes yet another case where marriage is actually an inappropriate word for these guys what they want is housekeeper dog and prostitute all i can say is i hope these girls come out take the men for what they have be glorified housekeepers for as short a term as possible and enjoy the free travel love my arse bb alb an alternative to the kind of de feminized over sized self centered alb mercenary minded lady available on the british singles scene alb glad to see american culture is making it s way into the british bars too alb god bless us uncivilized bastards every one alb still definately something not right about the below people are now alb cheaper then a decent laptop ok so we knew that already alb alb selling wedded bliss big business in thailand alb thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am et alb by andrew marshall alb bangkok thailand reuters english dentist ken moylan came to thailand alb looking for a wife it took two hours to find her alb the first day i went out with wan she came back to my hotel and hung all alb my clothes up and tidied the room i thought it was marvelous he said i alb knew then there was something special alb moylan NUMBER is one of thousands of men who use introduction agencies to meet alb and marry thai women he lives in england now with NUMBER year old wan alb who is expecting their first child alb critics of marriage agencies say they exploit the grinding poverty of women alb in developing countries offering dreams of a new life in the west that alb often turn sour but moylan says he has no regrets about coming to thailand alb in search of a wife alb i got to thailand at NUMBER p m and by NUMBER p m i d met wan he said i knew i alb found her attractive i could tell straight away that she was very caring alb moylan spent a week in thailand and after returning to england kept in alb touch with wan by phone and mail six months later she came to england and alb the couple married alb mr marriage alb lawrence lynch NUMBER runs thai professional introduction services the agency alb moylan used to meet his wife lynch who calls himself mr marriage alb started the company after also marrying a thai woman through an introduction alb agency alb since then he has helped set up hundreds of marriages alb in the last five years we ve done about NUMBER he said to the best of my alb knowledge they have all been successful alb male clients pay NUMBER NUMBER for the service although men from countries that alb require them to handle some of the visa work on their own get a discount alb clients then get to view catalogs and videos of hundreds of thai women alb looking for a husband if they like what they see they come to bangkok alb clients are introduced to several women in chaperoned meetings in lynch s alb office encounters that can often be awkward given mutual shyness and alb language problems alb we find that the gentlemen are usually just as nervous as the ladies alb lynch said but once they start meeting the ladies they soon relax alb after the first meeting couples can decide to go on dates to get to know alb each other better within two weeks of arrival lynch says almost every alb client has found a potential wife alb at the end of a fortnight it s very very rare for a guy to go back and alb think he hasn t made his mind up he said in most cases marriage follows alb usually within the next year alb roongthip kamchat managing director of thai no NUMBER connections a alb bangkok based agency says she has introduced about NUMBER NUMBER couples and less alb than NUMBER percent have broken up alb roongthip says she sometimes has a difficult time calming men who have just alb arrived in bangkok looking for a wife alb sometimes they are very nervous she said and sometimes they are very alb impatient and say give me a lady i want to get married now i say calm alb down ok we ll talk alb but if men are really in a hurry roongthip says she can find them a wife alb and get them married within a week lynch says clients he has found wives alb for include a blind man a man with one leg and a man with post traumatic alb stress disorder alb why alb similar marriage agencies can be found in many developing countries critics alb say they thrive on the neediness of lonely western men who are unable to alb form relationships in their own country and on the desperation of alb impoverished women who believe they can find a better life in the west alb but moylan says that if the arrangement makes both partners happy there is alb no reason to object if you talk about people who are needy i think alb everybody wants someone to love them and wants someone to love so yes i alb need wan he said alb thai women are dissatisfied with life in thailand i think there s no alb secret there they are looking for a better life i don t have a problem alb with that in return they are willing to give a lot of love and care to alb their future husband alb lynch says men are dissatisfied with western women too and that is why they alb choose to use his agency alb his brochure promises an alternative to the kind of de feminized alb over sized self centered mercenary minded lady available on the british alb singles scene and says he can make dreams come true even for men who are alb not god s gift to women alb roongthip said many western men found it difficult to meet women in their alb own countries and found thai women attractive alb they don t know how to meet women even if they go to pubs or discotheques alb or restaurants or department stores how can they ask people to marry them alb impossible she said alb many thai girls are slim have long hair black eyes small nose they are alb good at taking care and joking and laughing not strict different from alb ladies from other countries alb although many couples married through agencies have a considerable age gap alb the agencies say this is not a problem they say language problems are also alb not a major obstacle alb thai ladies are not ageist and they have no qualms whatsoever about having alb a husband who is significantly older lynch said when i met my wife she alb couldn t speak a word of english we muddled along with a phonetic alb dictionary the ladies are very keen to learn english and they pick it up alb very quickly alb many agencies also offer tuition for woman on what to expect when they move alb to the west alb we have kitchens we have study classes roongthip said we teach them alb how to eat and when to make tea alb pitfalls alb but not all dreams come true bee is a NUMBER year old thai woman who went to alb switzerland two years ago with a man she met through an agency now she is alb back in bangkok sad and angry alb he had no friends and i was so lonely she said i tried to make him alb happy but he just wanted sex and somebody to keep his house clean he never alb spoke to me alb bee came back to bangkok earlier this year i thought i would be happy alb there she said but it was the worst time of my life alb lynch says that while some agencies are badly run he makes checks to ensure alb unsuitable candidates are weeded out alb we are ethical and professional he said we will not take on all alb comers alb moylan says that despite possible pitfalls his own marriage is proof the alb arrangement can work wan s sister has just signed up with lynch s company alb looking for a foreign husband alb perhaps there are cases of women being exploited i m sure there are alb moylan said but in the majority of cases the women get a good deal best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
ouch hooooo cheers rah begin forwarded text date thu NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from same guy subject re electric car an edsel to r a hettinga rah shipwright com bob this guy s an idiot i design loads for systems with the NUMBER kv capacitors one of those has NUMBER of such capacitors and stores only NUMBER megajoules which means NUMBER kilojoules each they weigh NUMBER kg you need high energy per unit mass and the capacitive system i picked maximizes that it is precisely the system that maxwell is touting for electrical braking and power augmentation for regenerative use in automobiles you also need voltage you can use in a dc motor which is why though the actual capacitors in the system are charged to NUMBER NUMBER volts the system has them arranged in series to boost the voltage ignore him he s a waste of my time somebody s sig from r a hettinga rah shipwright com subject re electric car an edsel date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to some people begin forwarded text date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt from adam l beberg beberg URL to r a hettinga rah shipwright com cc fork spamassassin taint org subject re electric car an edsel on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER r a hettinga wrote maxwell www maxwell com makes and sells high energy density capacitors called ultracapacitors they deliver them in an air cooled voltage regulated module that will charge to NUMBER v and hold NUMBER kilojoules roughly the energy in NUMBER teaspoons of sugar or a bite of a donut and weighs NUMBER kilograms if that electrical energy could all be converted to kinetic energy there s enough to get the capacitor module up to about NUMBER mph in a vacuum since the energy you can pack into a capacitor is something like NUMBER NUMBER c v NUMBER you want to design your system with the lowest voltage possible to fully exploit that v NUMBER so yea a NUMBERv system will only be useful for accelerating insects not cars that must be why NUMBERkv is standard not NUMBER the joke of putting NUMBER into goggle to find that model was not missed btw most production systems use a mix of batteries and capacitors as very few real world applications run for less then NUMBER seconds like the car we were talking about originally even NUMBER seconds is pushing the capactior is the wrong choice limits thats why the landspeed record model is a battery one it s got to run for a much longer period of time and needs a steady discharge curve but it should be safe to say that most people want the indy NUMBER version not the NUMBER NUMBER mile sprint version when they are looking for a vehice for those you dont want a battery or a capacitor you want to take advantage of whole atoms not just electrons then you can suck off the electrons you need with a fuel cell however you will use both capacitors for the braking accel and batteries to not just dump excess energy in the design adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire end of original message end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 an alternative to the kind of de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded lady available on the british singles scene glad to see american culture is making it s way into the british bars too god bless us uncivilized bastards every one still definately something not right about the below people are now cheaper then a decent laptop ok so we knew that already selling wedded bliss big business in thailand thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am et by andrew marshall bangkok thailand reuters english dentist ken moylan came to thailand looking for a wife it took two hours to find her the first day i went out with wan she came back to my hotel and hung all my clothes up and tidied the room i thought it was marvelous he said i knew then there was something special moylan NUMBER is one of thousands of men who use introduction agencies to meet and marry thai women he lives in england now with NUMBER year old wan who is expecting their first child critics of marriage agencies say they exploit the grinding poverty of women in developing countries offering dreams of a new life in the west that often turn sour but moylan says he has no regrets about coming to thailand in search of a wife i got to thailand at NUMBER p m and by NUMBER p m i d met wan he said i knew i found her attractive i could tell straight away that she was very caring moylan spent a week in thailand and after returning to england kept in touch with wan by phone and mail six months later she came to england and the couple married mr marriage lawrence lynch NUMBER runs thai professional introduction services the agency moylan used to meet his wife lynch who calls himself mr marriage started the company after also marrying a thai woman through an introduction agency since then he has helped set up hundreds of marriages in the last five years we ve done about NUMBER he said to the best of my knowledge they have all been successful male clients pay NUMBER NUMBER for the service although men from countries that require them to handle some of the visa work on their own get a discount clients then get to view catalogs and videos of hundreds of thai women looking for a husband if they like what they see they come to bangkok clients are introduced to several women in chaperoned meetings in lynch s office encounters that can often be awkward given mutual shyness and language problems we find that the gentlemen are usually just as nervous as the ladies lynch said but once they start meeting the ladies they soon relax after the first meeting couples can decide to go on dates to get to know each other better within two weeks of arrival lynch says almost every client has found a potential wife at the end of a fortnight it s very very rare for a guy to go back and think he hasn t made his mind up he said in most cases marriage follows usually within the next year roongthip kamchat managing director of thai no NUMBER connections a bangkok based agency says she has introduced about NUMBER NUMBER couples and less than NUMBER percent have broken up roongthip says she sometimes has a difficult time calming men who have just arrived in bangkok looking for a wife sometimes they are very nervous she said and sometimes they are very impatient and say give me a lady i want to get married now i say calm down ok we ll talk but if men are really in a hurry roongthip says she can find them a wife and get them married within a week lynch says clients he has found wives for include a blind man a man with one leg and a man with post traumatic stress disorder why similar marriage agencies can be found in many developing countries critics say they thrive on the neediness of lonely western men who are unable to form relationships in their own country and on the desperation of impoverished women who believe they can find a better life in the west but moylan says that if the arrangement makes both partners happy there is no reason to object if you talk about people who are needy i think everybody wants someone to love them and wants someone to love so yes i need wan he said thai women are dissatisfied with life in thailand i think there s no secret there they are looking for a better life i don t have a problem with that in return they are willing to give a lot of love and care to their future husband lynch says men are dissatisfied with western women too and that is why they choose to use his agency his brochure promises an alternative to the kind of de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded lady available on the british singles scene and says he can make dreams come true even for men who are not god s gift to women roongthip said many western men found it difficult to meet women in their own countries and found thai women attractive they don t know how to meet women even if they go to pubs or discotheques or restaurants or department stores how can they ask people to marry them impossible she said many thai girls are slim have long hair black eyes small nose they are good at taking care and joking and laughing not strict different from ladies from other countries although many couples married through agencies have a considerable age gap the agencies say this is not a problem they say language problems are also not a major obstacle thai ladies are not ageist and they have no qualms whatsoever about having a husband who is significantly older lynch said when i met my wife she couldn t speak a word of english we muddled along with a phonetic dictionary the ladies are very keen to learn english and they pick it up very quickly many agencies also offer tuition for woman on what to expect when they move to the west we have kitchens we have study classes roongthip said we teach them how to eat and when to make tea pitfalls but not all dreams come true bee is a NUMBER year old thai woman who went to switzerland two years ago with a man she met through an agency now she is back in bangkok sad and angry he had no friends and i was so lonely she said i tried to make him happy but he just wanted sex and somebody to keep his house clean he never spoke to me bee came back to bangkok earlier this year i thought i would be happy there she said but it was the worst time of my life lynch says that while some agencies are badly run he makes checks to ensure unsuitable candidates are weeded out we are ethical and professional he said we will not take on all comers moylan says that despite possible pitfalls his own marriage is proof the arrangement can work wan s sister has just signed up with lynch s company looking for a foreign husband perhaps there are cases of women being exploited i m sure there are moylan said but in the majority of cases the women get a good deal ,0
on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote if guys still have silly antequated ideas about women s role then their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce what is silly and antiquated depends a lot on which country you live in i don t have statistics on the love half life but it seems long term relationships use something else for glue clearly our non silly non antiquated ideas about relationships have resulted in mostly short duration relationships and single parented dysfunctional kids not enough of them too boot so to keep our demographics from completely keeling over we re importing them from places with mostly silly and antiquated ideas at least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we re doing something wrong maybe we should really go dirty tleilaxu all the way ,0
i agree with rob i think if the phones and mms is building traction in europe in handsets this might be interesting bottom line is will it a help sell phones and b bill enough time on the wcarriers networks anyone remember the polariod photo sticker fad low quality small in size but kids totally dug that stuff seems like every adolescent girl had that stuff at one point and it never replaced or aimed to replace digital cameras or normal photographs i don t think mms photos will be a substitute for other photography developed at the local NUMBER hour joint or digital photos on your pc i think it expands the market and forms a new category the extent of the category size is the big question will it be a fad or will it a sustained market that s consumer behavior and marketing but i don t think the technology adoption will follow a substitution of another product on the market in this case digital photos or normal photos europe s the one to watch more teenagers have wireless phones and if the pricing and marketing is right they ll figure out what to do with it once the carriers how to figure out how to market it to them h from rob shavell rob mobiusvc com to mike masnick mike techdirt com cc fork URL subject re sprint delivers the next big thing date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER right mike i will agree to disagree but i take your comments to heart my opinion is only that this is one of the last frontiers of communications instant show that we cross easily though you are right as rain on pricing i am mildly amused at the level of skepticism and innatention it is getting my premise is that the world will change in dramatic and unexpected ways once there are a billion eye s which can instantly share what they see amongst each other that doesn t mean that people will stop talking on their phones or that people will spend more time w images than voice just that it is fundamental from news to crime to privacy to dating to family life to bloopers and practical jokes i believe there will be an explosion of images unleashed specifically by cell phone integrated lenses because of their utter ubiquity that dwarfs all pictures taken in the history of photography by orders of magnitude and in short order and yes changes things big time rgds rob original message from mike masnick mailto mike techdirt com sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to rob shavell cc fork URL subject re sprint delivers the next big thing not to keep harping on this but at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rob shavell wrote content who cares about content that no one can think of useful content is always the business persons mistake the content is the users communications its anything and everything avg person could easily send half dozen pics to a dozen people a day mainly humorous i d guess who cares if content is trivial in nature picture speaks a thousand words this does nothing to answer my question i do care about content hell if i could be convinced that people would send stupid pics back and forth all day i d have a different opinion of this i just am not convinced that they will stupid or not while a picture may be worth a thousand words and this is the same argument the guy who works for me made how many people do you know who communicate by pictures sure it sounds nice to say that a picture is such an efficient messaging mechanism but how often do you actually find yourself drawing someone a picture to explain something i don t buy it for most messages text works fine and is the most efficient mechanism for some messages pictures do the job but i would say not nearly as often as words why do you think pictionary and charades and such are games because images are usually not the most efficient way to get a message across misc ramblings i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same thing about NUMBER hour photo processing trivial who needs it i get better resultion elswhere and yet it had great decentralizing impact the plant had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation the digital camera and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion which will put the photo giants to bed and change the world in a meaningful way also sms didn t take off because its easy it took off because it costs less its greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the profitabilty of their sms traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth in reality sms cannibilizes the voice rev s they bought their networks to handle again this is the same argument my colleague made along with you just don t understand kids today and they ll run with this i wasn t saying that mms wouldn t take off because it wasn t high quality or that it wasn t easy i was saying that i couldn t see why people would use it in a way that changed the face of communications i m looking for the compelling reason even if it s a stupid one why people would want to do this sure if they integrate cameras into the phone and the quality improves even only marginally i can certainly see people taking pictures with their cameras and occasionally sending them to other people but mostly i don t see what the benefit is to this over sending them to someone s email address or putting together an online or offline photoalbum i don t think NUMBER hour photos are trivial people want to see their own pics right away and the quality is plenty good enough for snapshots that s one of the main reasons why digital cameras are catching on the instant view part i m guessing your argument is that people not only want instant view but also instant show which is what this service offers i m not convinced that most people want instant show i think people like to package their pictures and show them that s why people put together fancy albums and sit there and force you to go through them while they explain every picture sure occasionally instant show is nice but it s just nice on occasion i still can t see how it becomes a integral messaging method what s the specific benefit of taking a picture and immediately sending it from one phone to another there has to be some benefit even if it s silly if people are going to flock to it i m searching no one has given me a straight answer yet the only really intriguing idea i ve heard about things like mms lately are dan gillmor s assertion that one day in the near future some news event will happen and a bunch of people will snap pictures with their mobile phones from all different angles and those photos tell the real story of what happened before the press even gets there willing to be proven wrong mike ps if the wireless carriers continue to price these services as stupidly as they currently are then mms is never going to catch on ,0
lol they re not doomed at all thousands of men wear cbNUMBERs to work every day along with other chastity devices they are not just decorations you will not get a woody or have an orgasm until your keyholder allows you to anyhow i know better than to have this type of conversation with a nilla but these men wear these happily and consensually there is little power struggle in the lifestyles of the people who use these there is power exchange instead lots of variations on the definition but this one s from gloria brame s site power exchange the consensual transfer of power by the submissive to the dominant the exchange takes place when the returned energy from the dominant empowers the submissive anyhow there are tons of informative sites out there for anyone who cares to read them but i assure you the chastity device business is doing very well and it is illegal to force someone to wear one it s not coercion it is creative sensuality cindy on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER eirikur hallgrimsson wrote on wednesday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm cdale wrote someone needs to tell the mayor about this URL chastity technologies were doomed from the start and i ll add chemical ones to the trash heap yeah cindy these are decorative toys for the subculture but generally someone is attempting to preserve a relationship with this nonsense when quite plainly the the relationship is in a state where preserving it is of little value hardware is of no real use save for playing the power struggle game i don t want to see the future of this invisible fence for your mate must wear location transponders and endocrine monitors more movies like minority report it seems so automatic for people to reach for coercive solutions so surprizing given the low absolute effectiveness of coercion in the absense of overwhelming force advantage eirikur i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
on wednesday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm cdale wrote someone needs to tell the mayor about this URL chastity technologies were doomed from the start and i ll add chemical ones to the trash heap yeah cindy these are decorative toys for the subculture but generally someone is attempting to preserve a relationship with this nonsense when quite plainly the the relationship is in a state where preserving it is of little value hardware is of no real use save for playing the power struggle game i don t want to see the future of this invisible fence for your mate must wear location transponders and endocrine monitors more movies like minority report it seems so automatic for people to reach for coercive solutions so surprizing given the low absolute effectiveness of coercion in the absense of overwhelming force advantage eirikur ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER eugen leitl wrote on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote if guys still have silly antequated ideas about women s role then their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce what is silly and antiquated depends a lot on which country you live in it also depends on what the fad is or what is in style i don t have statistics on the love half life but it seems long term relationships use something else for glue clearly our non silly non antiquated ideas about relationships have resulted in mostly short duration relationships and single parented dysfunctional kids not enough of them too boot so to keep our demographics from completely keeling over we re importing them from places with mostly silly and antiquated ideas actualy our silly antiquated ideas about relationships and love have resulted in the bleedings of many upon many a page and musical instrumnet and canvas what s the problem if we dash a little mrs dash on them or cayenne or ginger mm ask me about ginger root play and let me tell you this just because a child happens to be single parented what a word does not mean that child is dysfunctional or lives in a dysfunctional home the govt media church has tried to make it look like there is a disintegration when in fact there is a coming together of other family members and friends to raise children it s not decaying it s changing nothing wrong with change at least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we re doing something wrong maybe we should really go dirty tleilaxu all the way maybe y all should buy m w some more bandwidth c i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
this is preaty neat adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL pitch dark bar opens for blind dates thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am et berlin reuters diners at berlin s newest restaurant cannot see what they are eating and have to be guided to their table by blind waiters because the bar is pitch black the restaurant which opened wednesday aims to make guests concentrate on senses other than sight holding on to one another the first visitors followed waiter roland zimmermann NUMBER into the dining room although the phd student has been blind since childhood he is the only one able to point out chairs cutlery and drinks i m putting your plate right in front of you zimmermann said i can t find my mouth one voice replied out of the dark i wonder what this dish is lasagne or some casserole another invisible guest said in the unsicht bar which means invisible in german diners cannot choose complete dishes from the menu but can only indicate whether they would like a fish meat or vegetarian option we want people to have an extraordinary experience of tasting feeling and smelling said manfred scharbach head of the organization for blind and sight restricted people which is running the bar people are surprised that their tongues and taste senses are taking over and are sending signals which their eyes would normally have sent he added of the NUMBER staff NUMBER are blind an average meal lasts about three hours and the waiters are always around to help scharnbach said and at the end of the night they will even reveal what customers have actually been eating ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER kragen sitaker wrote adam beberg writes shouldn t a politician know not to tell the truth odds he s impeached by as the article you forwarded explained in the second line of text this politician is a woman next monday ob no clue how they remove mayors in italy ob no clue full stop as in nearly all adam beberg posts posts or pouts in rare webster form c ,0
i agree with rob i think if the phones and mms is building traction in europe in handsets this might be interesting bottom line is will it a help sell phones and b bill enough time on the wcarriers networks anyone remember the polariod photo sticker fad low quality small in size but kids totally dug that stuff seems like every adolescent girl had that stuff at one point and it never replaced or aimed to replace digital cameras or normal photographs i don t think mms photos will be a substitute for other photography developed at the local NUMBER hour joint or digital photos on your pc i think it expands the market and forms a new category the extent of the category size is the big question will it be a fad or will it a sustained market that s consumer behavior and marketing but i don t think the technology adoption will follow a substitution of another product on the market in this case digital photos or normal photos europe s the one to watch more teenagers have wireless phones and if the pricing and marketing is right they ll figure out what to do with it once the carriers how to figure out how to market it to them h from rob shavell rob mobiusvc com to mike masnick mike techdirt com cc fork URL subject re sprint delivers the next big thing date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER right mike i will agree to disagree but i take your comments to heart my opinion is only that this is one of the last frontiers of communications instant show that we cross easily though you are right as rain on pricing i am mildly amused at the level of skepticism and innatention it is getting my premise is that the world will change in dramatic and unexpected ways once there are a billion eye s which can instantly share what they see amongst each other that doesn t mean that people will stop talking on their phones or that people will spend more time w images than voice just that it is fundamental from news to crime to privacy to dating to family life to bloopers and practical jokes i believe there will be an explosion of images unleashed specifically by cell phone integrated lenses because of their utter ubiquity that dwarfs all pictures taken in the history of photography by orders of magnitude and in short order and yes changes things big time rgds rob original message from mike masnick mailto mike techdirt com sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to rob shavell cc fork URL subject re sprint delivers the next big thing not to keep harping on this but at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rob shavell wrote content who cares about content that no one can think of useful content is always the business persons mistake the content is the users communications its anything and everything avg person could easily send half dozen pics to a dozen people a day mainly humorous i d guess who cares if content is trivial in nature picture speaks a thousand words this does nothing to answer my question i do care about content hell if i could be convinced that people would send stupid pics back and forth all day i d have a different opinion of this i just am not convinced that they will stupid or not while a picture may be worth a thousand words and this is the same argument the guy who works for me made how many people do you know who communicate by pictures sure it sounds nice to say that a picture is such an efficient messaging mechanism but how often do you actually find yourself drawing someone a picture to explain something i don t buy it for most messages text works fine and is the most efficient mechanism for some messages pictures do the job but i would say not nearly as often as words why do you think pictionary and charades and such are games because images are usually not the most efficient way to get a message across misc ramblings i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same thing about NUMBER hour photo processing trivial who needs it i get better resultion elswhere and yet it had great decentralizing impact the plant had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation the digital camera and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion which will put the photo giants to bed and change the world in a meaningful way also sms didn t take off because its easy it took off because it costs less its greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the profitabilty of their sms traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth in reality sms cannibilizes the voice rev s they bought their networks to handle again this is the same argument my colleague made along with you just don t understand kids today and they ll run with this i wasn t saying that mms wouldn t take off because it wasn t high quality or that it wasn t easy i was saying that i couldn t see why people would use it in a way that changed the face of communications i m looking for the compelling reason even if it s a stupid one why people would want to do this sure if they integrate cameras into the phone and the quality improves even only marginally i can certainly see people taking pictures with their cameras and occasionally sending them to other people but mostly i don t see what the benefit is to this over sending them to someone s email address or putting together an online or offline photoalbum i don t think NUMBER hour photos are trivial people want to see their own pics right away and the quality is plenty good enough for snapshots that s one of the main reasons why digital cameras are catching on the instant view part i m guessing your argument is that people not only want instant view but also instant show which is what this service offers i m not convinced that most people want instant show i think people like to package their pictures and show them that s why people put together fancy albums and sit there and force you to go through them while they explain every picture sure occasionally instant show is nice but it s just nice on occasion i still can t see how it becomes a integral messaging method what s the specific benefit of taking a picture and immediately sending it from one phone to another there has to be some benefit even if it s silly if people are going to flock to it i m searching no one has given me a straight answer yet the only really intriguing idea i ve heard about things like mms lately are dan gillmor s assertion that one day in the near future some news event will happen and a bunch of people will snap pictures with their mobile phones from all different angles and those photos tell the real story of what happened before the press even gets there willing to be proven wrong mike ps if the wireless carriers continue to price these services as stupidly as they currently are then mms is never going to catch on ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER cdale wrote it also depends on what the fad is or what is in style dna s idea of fads is on the NUMBER kiloyear scale unfortunately as long as current fads don t involve in vivo rewrite of the genome homeoboxes including now there s a problem for you homeoboxing the adult they re not all that smart an idear actualy our silly antiquated ideas about relationships and love have resulted in the bleedings of many upon many a page and musical instrumnet and canvas what s the problem if we dash a little mrs art is sure nice however if art is our first priority we re kinda fuxNUMBERred if we ve set our sight on a sustainable culture dash on them or cayenne or ginger mm ask me about ginger root play and let me tell you this just because a child happens to be single parented what a word does not mean that child is dysfunctional or lives in a dysfunctional home the govt media church our firmware is not built to be single parented you can counteract that somewhat by exposing the kid to a community of close friends but not too many do that has tried to make it look like there is a disintegration when in fact there is a coming together of other family members and friends to raise children it s not decaying it s changing nothing wrong with change i don t know what exactly is wrong but something is definitely wrong this is way too important to be left to just our intuition of what is right and what is wrong at least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we re doing something wrong maybe we should really go dirty tleilaxu all the way maybe y all should buy m w some more bandwidth m w ,0
these are being advertised all over the uk chief come on seems to be to the same people who use phones for text messaging i e teenagers hi we re at the beach and i met this awesome guy here s his pic tom ,0
eugen leitl clearly our non silly non antiquated ideas about relationships have resulted in mostly short duration relationships and single parented dysfunctional kids don t swallow too quickly what you have read about more traditional cultures today or in the past do we have any statistics on the poor man s divorce from centuries past are you so sure that the kids in NUMBERth century england were any more functional than those today what about NUMBERth century saudi arabia at least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we re doing something wrong granting your first two points i m skeptical about the last do you see any signs that america specifically or the west generally are suffering from lack of innovation vis a vis youth nations such as iran the last i read the third generation of the revolution all a want to move to america and b failing that are importing everything they can american _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER russell turpin wrote don t swallow too quickly what you have read about more traditional cultures today or in the past do i don t swallow i was just offering anecdotal first hand experiences from a number of cultures indicating NUMBER we apparently have a problem NUMBER which requires more than ad hoc hand waving approach it s trivial it s obvious all we have to do is xy we have any statistics on the poor man s divorce from centuries past are you so sure that the kids in NUMBERth that s easy divorce didn t happen the church and the society looked after that only relatively recently that privilege was granted to kings and only very recently to commoners century england were any more functional than those today what about NUMBERth century saudi arabia is saudi arabia a meaningful emigration source at least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we re doing something wrong granting your first two points i m skeptical about the last do you see any signs that america specifically i wasn t talking about the us specifically though the demographics problem exists there as well albeit not in that extent we eurotrash are facing right now or the west generally are suffering from lack of innovation vis a vis youth nations such as iran the NUMBER i m seeing lack of innovation and more disturbing trend towards even less innovation by an autocatalytic process gerontocracy favors gerontocracy last i read the third generation of the revolution all a want to move to america and b failing that are importing everything they can american my point was that the west us first and foremost importing innovation carriers and working against bad trend in the demographics by large scale import while this kinda sorta works on the short run this is not something sustainable ,0
hi all we re looking for an experienced it support person in the school of engineering at uc santa cruz please foward to anyone who you think might be interested jim original message from michael perrone mailto mperrone cs ucsc edu sent thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to techstaff URL subject recruiting for paiii iv supervisor dear soe community forgive the spam but i wanted to make sure that everyone is aware that we are recruiting to replace the position vacated by gary moro this is a technical position with supervisor responsibilities the focus is on solaris and linux systems administration with veritas and irix experience a plus the posting is here URL regards michael perrone ,0
 related anecdote i was eating in a restaurant in chinatown in boston the place was empty the only other customer was a white guy reading an asian language newspaper the guy asked the waiter for help translating a word eventually his story came out he had married an asian woman through one of these introduction services after about a year of marriage she had charged him with assault and left him leaving no contact information he was hanging around in chinatown asking random asians for help finding her i obviously don t know if he did assault her but what struck me was that the possibility of mutual exploitation is high anecdote number two in college i had a job as a street vendor there was a guy i worked with who was a lifer in the job he was a noticably messed up guy among other odd characteristics he fawned on women customers doing stuff like offering them flowers i asked him about it he said that he d never had sex with a woman who wasn t a prostitute and his dream was to save up enough money to get a mail order bride i was really moved the guy was a loon but he wanted a companion as much as anyone else and he was realistic about his chances ,0
 from the hoax or hack dept digital needle a virtual gramophone a reported method to scan yourr old lps on a flat bed scanner and then use the resulting images to make mpNUMBER s of the fine playing conatined therein its all still sketchy to the point of possible hoaxdom but the idea is dang interesting URL ,0
turpin do we have any statistics on the poor man s divorce from centuries past eugen leitl that s easy divorce didn t happen you seem not to know what a poor man s divorce is it is an old term from the time when divorce was difficult but walking was easy and identity was not so locked down as it is today not every widow had a dead husband i m seeing lack of innovation that doesn t tell us anything except what is happening in eugen leitl s life the more common observation is that the rate of change is increasing do you have any data that might persuade us that what you see is more telling than what others see gerontocracy favors gerontocracy i would have thought that gerontocracy favors biotech research and plenty of young workers to pay taxes note that the fertility rate doesn t result from decisions made by the old but by the young if we want more kids we have to convince people who are in their twenties to become parents _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER russell turpin wrote you seem not to know what a poor man s divorce is i know very little in general i hope you can excuse me for that it is an old term from the time when divorce was difficult but walking was easy and identity was not so locked down as it is today not every widow had a dead husband yeah you could always run away strangle your wife your wife could always poison you scooby dooby doo it wasn t the rule and i don t feel like desintegrating into a nitpicking orgy you win i m seeing lack of innovation that doesn t tell us anything except what is happening in eugen leitl s life the more common yeah i happen to live in a small hole under the roots of an old oak tree you don t so innovation is a global phenomenon observation is that the rate of change is increasing do you have any data that might persuade us that what you see is more telling than what others see gerontocracy favors gerontocracy i would have thought that gerontocracy favors biotech research and plenty of young workers to pay taxes so thought i but apparently all it favours is a lot of whining about good old times the inability of youngn s to pay for your pension and the health insurance and the generic influx of uncouth furriners which must be stopped somehow note that the fertility rate doesn t result from decisions made by the old but by the young if we uh i m kinda aware of that want more kids we have to convince people who are in their twenties to become parents now we re talking got a plan ,0
originally linked by dave s scripting news URL we ve got googlewhacking googlebombing and now we can add googlecooking to our lexicon my mother types whatever ingredients she has on hand into google and then picks the most appealing recipe returned in the results what a good idea jim ,0
 URL shows a picture of a wheel within a wheel galaxy the universe is a strange and wonderful place jim ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER russell turpin wrote want more kids we have to convince people who are in their twenties to become parents hey give me a break i was working on finding the right mate once i did boomsky theres a puppy and if you would kindly not put on so much preasure there culd well be another NUMBER is a magic number yes it is its a magic number ,0
 clearly our non silly non antiquated ideas about relationships have resulted in mostly short duration relationships and single parented dysfunctional kids not enough of them too boot so to keep our demographics from completely keeling over we re importing them from places with mostly silly and antiquated ideas at least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we re doing something wrong there was a fascinating article in the economist NUMBER NUMBER weeks back the issue with a pregnant looking statue of liberty on the front that stated that even for the native us population fertility had jumped in the last decade and a half i think the current figure for the us is a little over NUMBER but not quite the NUMBER NUMBER of replacement rate combined with the very fertile non native population the article implied the us was going to have a significant increase in population over earlier predictions as well the population would overall be more youthful with associated implications for being able to fund social programs military spending consumer spending etc europe did not show the same increase in fertility some actual data for the us are here URL part of URL jim ,0
in a slightly old news story it turns out the chinese government has banned all access to the google and altavista search engines URL URL URL URL the reason appears to be the google cache feature i can only imagine the internet archive will soon follow if it isn t already blocked seems that governments do have some power over the web after all jim ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER jim whitehead wrote we ve got googlewhacking googlebombing and now we can add googlecooking to our lexicon my mother types whatever ingredients she has on hand into google and then picks the most appealing recipe returned in the results what a good idea dude this is at least two years old and probably older of course we had a more catchy phrase for it we call it iron chef google when the garden was in full bloom a few summers back dawn and i would google the ingrediants we just grew to come up with tasty recipes or more often ideas from recipes from which toi make our own fight the hypebuzzword war be an army of one tom iron che tempah wsmf ,0
 wrong vms like async io makes a huge difference in even what i consider small programs so it sounds as if to your thinking most useful apps are also trivial unless each key on my keyboard were to the apps distinct event sources i can t think of any of my usual job mix that would need hundreds or even tens of async requests perhaps you can explain how nontrivial apps will be compellingly useful but it s still not built in who knows when it will be the point is it s not portable in either case does that lack of portability imply it isn t generally useful when it was apparent that tcp networks were useful berkeley sockets could be found even on vms and win NUMBER NUMBER boxen why would early unix have run with the idea that if one wishes to do multiple things at the same time one can use a group of processes to do them they had multics as a counterexample in the days of tiny memories and tapes people were more accustomed to writing programs that didn t run entirely in a single address space one is a great number for an interface as log NUMBER is NUMBER and specification can be implicit some combination of the above now as hoare says there are two ways of constructing a software design one way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies as programmers we ve been able to make our lives complicated for at least half a century the hardware interrupt gives us the rope part of dijkstra s inspiration for the was the counterexample of ibm s multi programmed boxes were these the same ones that inspired mythical man month and i suppose he would say the question is how not to make a mess of it how should we structure computations so if we try to do ten times as many things at the same time reasoning about the resulting system is at most ten times more complex not one hundred and certainly not three and a half million times more compared to that project the prospect of writing a driver library for various vendors aio implementations seems to be truly trivial dave oracle in their quest for portability used to use raw disks for the database this finessed the filesystem issue did it also allow them to roll their own set of async drivers ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER eugen leitl wrote on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER cdale wrote it also depends on what the fad is or what is in style dna s idea of fads is on the NUMBER kiloyear scale unfortunately as long as current fads don t involve in vivo rewrite of the genome homeoboxes including now there s a problem for you homeoboxing the adult they re not all that smart an idear i forgot what we were taking about actualy our silly antiquated ideas about relationships and love have resulted in the bleedings of many upon many a page and musical instrumnet and canvas what s the problem if we dash a little mrs art is sure nice however if art is our first priority we re kinda fuxNUMBERred if we ve set our sight on a sustainable culture nah didn t say art s our priority said our ideas about relationships and love are and let me tell you this just because a child happens to be single parented what a word does not mean that child is dysfunctional or lives in a dysfunctional home the govt media church our firmware is not built to be single parented you can counteract that somewhat by exposing the kid to a community of close friends but not too many do that i see it a lot in the south also family has tried to make it look like there is a disintegration when in fact there is a coming together of other family members and friends to raise children it s not decaying it s changing nothing wrong with change i don t know what exactly is wrong but something is definitely wrong this is way too important to be left to just our intuition of what is right and what is wrong one thing that s wrong is who some of us choose as babysitters too many kids are put in front of the television for hours each day to be influenced by what the media and government thinks is important i learned a long time ago that what they think is important and what is are two different things i threw the tv out when xi was NUMBER she s got her own place now and still doesn t have one yay another thing that s wrong is what goes on in public schools some allow a bit of individuality but only for a class or a short period of time depending on the teachers most of the time i dunno how many times i ve seen xi come home from school absolutely miserable or outraged about something that happened at school she made it to college though whew it s a big problem to tackle and i don t know the answer i like the idea of the voucher system because in a way it is a way parents can vote more efficiently for how their kids are taught at least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we re doing something wrong maybe we should really go dirty tleilaxu all the way maybe y all should buy m w some more bandwidth m w merriam webster c i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
 j jim whitehead ejw cse ucsc edu writes j seems that governments do have some power over the j web after all at the NUMBER itac roadwork conference peter mansbridge asked the panel of experts how it might be possible to censor the internet all of the panelists laughed except bill buxton peter asked him if he knew something the others didn t bill replied that it was possible to censor the internet which drew a gasp from the audience all you need is a global government more draconian than any that has occured before in history scientology dmca suits against norwegians legal riaa file trading virii bush s homeland insecurity canada using isps as spies riaa suing prodigy for pNUMBERp users and having foreign sites barred from the us france tempers yahoo china ip filters google seems bill didn t know much about how government really works either that or there s a smelly similarity between buxton s global big brother and the us and chinese gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
quitcherbraggin gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of cdale sent friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to bitbitch URL cc adam l beberg fork URL subject re NUMBER selling wedded bliss was re ouch i dunno bb women who like to be thought of this way should have the right to choose to be treated this way men too ahem my boy cleans washes clothes cooks fixes stuff etc and works the same number of hours i do sometimes more if he has to catch up with me i close him because he is industrious and creative and because he unfailingly makes my bed the minute i get out of it and boy NUMBER will be here soon to help boy NUMBER with other things such as pedicures backrubs and sure fucking lol along with the aforementioned chores adam can have his cake and eat it too if he can only find the right girl who has the same beliefs about gender roles that he has of course he has no clue where to look so we will be constantly laughing at him while he stumbles around in the dark cindy p s the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor only the order in which they move into my house smiles at chris p s NUMBER i m moving going to new orleans can t handle any more cab driving the summer sucked here on the ms gulf coast instead of rocking like it normally does wish me luck i m going to look for another computer job le sigh on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote hello adam thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote alb so you re saying that product bundling works good point sometimes i wish i was still in ca you deserve a good beating every so often anyone else want to do the honors alb and how is this any different from normal marriage exactly other then alb that the woman not only gets a man but one in a country where both she and alb her offspring will have actual opportunities oh and the lack of alb de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded choices mmkay for the nth time adam we don t live in the land of adam fantasy women actually are allowed to do things productive independent and entirely free of their male counterparts they aren t forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels sometimes and this will come as a shock to you no doubt men and women even find love which is the crucial distinction between this system and they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together i know far fetched and idealistically crazy as it is but such things do happen i can guarantee you if my mother was approached by my father and NUMBER years ago he commented on her cleaning ability as a motivator for marrying her we would not be having this conversation now if guys still have silly antequated ideas about women s role then their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce again these situations are great provided everyone is aware that the relationship is a contractual one he wants a maid a dog and a prostitute he doesn t have to pay and she wants a country that isn t impoverished and teeming with aids a contract versus a true love interest marriage egh i really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent i blame law school and my cat bb alb adam l duncan beberg alb URL alb beberg URL i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
i recently stumbled across the contents of the journal electronic publishing which was published from january NUMBER through december NUMBER all papers are available online in pdf this was apparently one of the first journals to disseminate in pdf in NUMBER the journal also reprints some of the better papers from the electronic publishing conferences held bi yearly from NUMBER NUMBER epNUMBER epNUMBER epNUMBER epNUMBER URL today s reader might look at the contents and wonder about their relevance since they don t directly discuss the web as an academic i find this journal valuable since the papers are of generally high quality by top researchers and they provide lots of pointers to the evolution of the ideas that led to many web technologies it s one source among many for sifting through the intellectual lineage of electronic publishing technologies rohit and adam might find the following papers especially relevant in the context of their wwwNUMBER evolution of document species paper page description languages development implementation and standardization a l oakley and a c norris URL important papers in the history of document preparation systems basic sources richard k furuta URL excellent overview of sources several of the authors of papers in this journal are now involved in the acm document engineering conference series URL jim ,0
why should i c on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER geege schuman wrote quitcherbraggin gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of cdale sent friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to bitbitch URL cc adam l beberg fork URL subject re NUMBER selling wedded bliss was re ouch i dunno bb women who like to be thought of this way should have the right to choose to be treated this way men too ahem my boy cleans washes clothes cooks fixes stuff etc and works the same number of hours i do sometimes more if he has to catch up with me i close him because he is industrious and creative and because he unfailingly makes my bed the minute i get out of it and boy NUMBER will be here soon to help boy NUMBER with other things such as pedicures backrubs and sure fucking lol along with the aforementioned chores adam can have his cake and eat it too if he can only find the right girl who has the same beliefs about gender roles that he has of course he has no clue where to look so we will be constantly laughing at him while he stumbles around in the dark cindy p s the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor only the order in which they move into my house smiles at chris p s NUMBER i m moving going to new orleans can t handle any more cab driving the summer sucked here on the ms gulf coast instead of rocking like it normally does wish me luck i m going to look for another computer job le sigh on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote hello adam thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote alb so you re saying that product bundling works good point sometimes i wish i was still in ca you deserve a good beating every so often anyone else want to do the honors alb and how is this any different from normal marriage exactly other then alb that the woman not only gets a man but one in a country where both she and alb her offspring will have actual opportunities oh and the lack of alb de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded choices mmkay for the nth time adam we don t live in the land of adam fantasy women actually are allowed to do things productive independent and entirely free of their male counterparts they aren t forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels sometimes and this will come as a shock to you no doubt men and women even find love which is the crucial distinction between this system and they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together i know far fetched and idealistically crazy as it is but such things do happen i can guarantee you if my mother was approached by my father and NUMBER years ago he commented on her cleaning ability as a motivator for marrying her we would not be having this conversation now if guys still have silly antequated ideas about women s role then their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce again these situations are great provided everyone is aware that the relationship is a contractual one he wants a maid a dog and a prostitute he doesn t have to pay and she wants a country that isn t impoverished and teeming with aids a contract versus a true love interest marriage egh i really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent i blame law school and my cat bb alb adam l duncan beberg alb URL alb beberg URL i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
on friday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am eugen leitl wrote i don t know what exactly is wrong but something is definitely wrong this is way too important to be left to just our intuition of what is right and what is wrong this is one of those formally difficult points from a philosophy perspective you can t really throw out intuition and emotion because reason really only gets you answers that reflect the genome and the ancestral environment going forward requires creativity and experiment eirikur ,0
if it s unwritten how m i supposed to know unless someone calls me up and tells me hint hint lol well i reckon it s a written rule now since it s on the internet in text format w your name attached but then again when have i ever followed any damned rules c on sat NUMBER sep NUMBER geege schuman wrote unwritten rule NUMBER gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of cdale sent friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to geege schuman cc bitbitch URL adam l beberg fork URL subject re re NUMBER selling wedded bliss was re ouch why should i c on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER geege schuman wrote quitcherbraggin gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of cdale sent friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to bitbitch URL cc adam l beberg fork URL subject re NUMBER selling wedded bliss was re ouch i dunno bb women who like to be thought of this way should have the right to choose to be treated this way men too ahem my boy cleans washes clothes cooks fixes stuff etc and works the same number of hours i do sometimes more if he has to catch up with me i close him because he is industrious and creative and because he unfailingly makes my bed the minute i get out of it and boy NUMBER will be here soon to help boy NUMBER with other things such as pedicures backrubs and sure fucking lol along with the aforementioned chores adam can have his cake and eat it too if he can only find the right girl who has the same beliefs about gender roles that he has of course he has no clue where to look so we will be constantly laughing at him while he stumbles around in the dark cindy p s the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor only the order in which they move into my house smiles at chris p s NUMBER i m moving going to new orleans can t handle any more cab driving the summer sucked here on the ms gulf coast instead of rocking like it normally does wish me luck i m going to look for another computer job le sigh on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote hello adam thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote alb so you re saying that product bundling works good point sometimes i wish i was still in ca you deserve a good beating every so often anyone else want to do the honors alb and how is this any different from normal marriage exactly other then alb that the woman not only gets a man but one in a country where both she and alb her offspring will have actual opportunities oh and the lack of alb de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded choices mmkay for the nth time adam we don t live in the land of adam fantasy women actually are allowed to do things productive independent and entirely free of their male counterparts they aren t forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels sometimes and this will come as a shock to you no doubt men and women even find love which is the crucial distinction between this system and they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together i know far fetched and idealistically crazy as it is but such things do happen i can guarantee you if my mother was approached by my father and NUMBER years ago he commented on her cleaning ability as a motivator for marrying her we would not be having this conversation now if guys still have silly antequated ideas about women s role then their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce again these situations are great provided everyone is aware that the relationship is a contractual one he wants a maid a dog and a prostitute he doesn t have to pay and she wants a country that isn t impoverished and teeming with aids a contract versus a true love interest marriage egh i really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent i blame law school and my cat bb alb adam l duncan beberg alb URL alb beberg URL i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
cdale urled thusly URL the assumption that females of all species tend to be less promiscuous than males simply does not fit the facts hrdy contended well duh it is perfectly obvious that heterosexual promiscuity is exactly precisely identical between males and females of course the shapes of the distributions may differ r ,0
robert harley it is perfectly obvious that heterosexual promiscuity is exactly precisely identical between males and females yeah assuming approximately equal populations but that obscures the different modes of promiscuity both the person who gives sex for money or power or companionship and the person who uses money and power and companionship to get sex are promiscuous in the broadest sense of the word but their motives and behavior are quite different langur monkeys were the example in the cited article dominant males kill babies that are not their own the dominant male monkey seeks to defend his harem of females but cozying up to the current dominant male isn t the best strategy for female langurs because dominant males are dethroned by rivals every NUMBER months or so by mating with as many extra group males as possible female langurs ensure their offspring against infanticide by the male who is likely next to rule the roost maybe it s just me but that doesn t paint a picture of carefree females engaged in joyously promiscuous couplings the dom cab driver who is taking her two boy toys to new orleans is a better picture of that _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL ,0
unwritten rule NUMBER gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of cdale sent friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to geege schuman cc bitbitch URL adam l beberg fork URL subject re re NUMBER selling wedded bliss was re ouch why should i c on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER geege schuman wrote quitcherbraggin gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of cdale sent friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to bitbitch URL cc adam l beberg fork URL subject re NUMBER selling wedded bliss was re ouch i dunno bb women who like to be thought of this way should have the right to choose to be treated this way men too ahem my boy cleans washes clothes cooks fixes stuff etc and works the same number of hours i do sometimes more if he has to catch up with me i close him because he is industrious and creative and because he unfailingly makes my bed the minute i get out of it and boy NUMBER will be here soon to help boy NUMBER with other things such as pedicures backrubs and sure fucking lol along with the aforementioned chores adam can have his cake and eat it too if he can only find the right girl who has the same beliefs about gender roles that he has of course he has no clue where to look so we will be constantly laughing at him while he stumbles around in the dark cindy p s the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor only the order in which they move into my house smiles at chris p s NUMBER i m moving going to new orleans can t handle any more cab driving the summer sucked here on the ms gulf coast instead of rocking like it normally does wish me luck i m going to look for another computer job le sigh on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote hello adam thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote alb so you re saying that product bundling works good point sometimes i wish i was still in ca you deserve a good beating every so often anyone else want to do the honors alb and how is this any different from normal marriage exactly other then alb that the woman not only gets a man but one in a country where both she and alb her offspring will have actual opportunities oh and the lack of alb de feminized over sized self centered mercenary minded choices mmkay for the nth time adam we don t live in the land of adam fantasy women actually are allowed to do things productive independent and entirely free of their male counterparts they aren t forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels sometimes and this will come as a shock to you no doubt men and women even find love which is the crucial distinction between this system and they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together i know far fetched and idealistically crazy as it is but such things do happen i can guarantee you if my mother was approached by my father and NUMBER years ago he commented on her cleaning ability as a motivator for marrying her we would not be having this conversation now if guys still have silly antequated ideas about women s role then their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce again these situations are great provided everyone is aware that the relationship is a contractual one he wants a maid a dog and a prostitute he doesn t have to pay and she wants a country that isn t impoverished and teeming with aids a contract versus a true love interest marriage egh i really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent i blame law school and my cat bb alb adam l duncan beberg alb URL alb beberg URL i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
cdale is a double chocolate chip macadamia to my vanilla wafer wait maybe i m a ginger snap cough gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of russell turpin sent saturday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re selling wedded bliss was re ouch robert harley it is perfectly obvious that heterosexual promiscuity is exactly precisely identical between males and females yeah assuming approximately equal populations but that obscures the different modes of promiscuity both the person who gives sex for money or power or companionship and the person who uses money and power and companionship to get sex are promiscuous in the broadest sense of the word but their motives and behavior are quite different langur monkeys were the example in the cited article dominant males kill babies that are not their own the dominant male monkey seeks to defend his harem of females but cozying up to the current dominant male isn t the best strategy for female langurs because dominant males are dethroned by rivals every NUMBER months or so by mating with as many extra group males as possible female langurs ensure their offspring against infanticide by the male who is likely next to rule the roost maybe it s just me but that doesn t paint a picture of carefree females engaged in joyously promiscuous couplings the dom cab driver who is taking her two boy toys to new orleans is a better picture of that _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL ,0
hah i guess she doesn t want everyone to know about all the kinky sex she and i have had lol c on sat NUMBER sep NUMBER geege schuman wrote cdale is a double chocolate chip macadamia to my vanilla wafer wait maybe i m a ginger snap cough gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of russell turpin sent saturday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re selling wedded bliss was re ouch robert harley it is perfectly obvious that heterosexual promiscuity is exactly precisely identical between males and females yeah assuming approximately equal populations but that obscures the different modes of promiscuity both the person who gives sex for money or power or companionship and the person who uses money and power and companionship to get sex are promiscuous in the broadest sense of the word but their motives and behavior are quite different langur monkeys were the example in the cited article dominant males kill babies that are not their own the dominant male monkey seeks to defend his harem of females but cozying up to the current dominant male isn t the best strategy for female langurs because dominant males are dethroned by rivals every NUMBER months or so by mating with as many extra group males as possible female langurs ensure their offspring against infanticide by the male who is likely next to rule the roost maybe it s just me but that doesn t paint a picture of carefree females engaged in joyously promiscuous couplings the dom cab driver who is taking her two boy toys to new orleans is a better picture of that _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
oh well uh thank you russell lol i think c on sat NUMBER sep NUMBER russell turpin wrote robert harley it is perfectly obvious that heterosexual promiscuity is exactly precisely identical between males and females yeah assuming approximately equal populations but that obscures the different modes of promiscuity both the person who gives sex for money or power or companionship and the person who uses money and power and companionship to get sex are promiscuous in the broadest sense of the word but their motives and behavior are quite different langur monkeys were the example in the cited article dominant males kill babies that are not their own the dominant male monkey seeks to defend his harem of females but cozying up to the current dominant male isn t the best strategy for female langurs because dominant males are dethroned by rivals every NUMBER months or so by mating with as many extra group males as possible female langurs ensure their offspring against infanticide by the male who is likely next to rule the roost maybe it s just me but that doesn t paint a picture of carefree females engaged in joyously promiscuous couplings the dom cab driver who is taking her two boy toys to new orleans is a better picture of that _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
definitional nit to pick robert harley writes it is perfectly obvious that heterosexual promiscuity is exactly precisely identical between males and females of course the shapes of the distributions may differ you ve redefined promiscuity above as total or average activity which seems to rob it of its common meaning activity above some specific threshold usually one or norm or involving extra or indiscriminate variety promiscuity is thus inherently a description of distributions rather than averages consider a population of NUMBER males and NUMBER females let there be three pairings which result in each person having sex once then let one of the males also have sex with the other two females sure the average number of sex acts and sex partners is equal between the sexes tautologically but here more women than men are above the single partner threshold above the overall average NUMBER NUMBER acts partners threshold above the overall median NUMBER NUMBER acts partners above the overall mode NUMBER acts partners and here women have a higher mode NUMBER and median NUMBER number of partners so in this contrived population females are more promiscuous than males unless promiscuity is defined uselessly gordon ,0
cdale i guess geege doesn t want everyone to know about all the kinky sex she and i have had yeah like i m going to believe that without seeing the photos next you ll be telling me that beberg found a job he likes _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL ,0
intersectedness i d be surprised if beberg ever had a blowjob he liked i mean it would have involved others less evolved others gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of russell turpin sent saturday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject re selling wedded bliss was re ouch cdale i guess geege doesn t want everyone to know about all the kinky sex she and i have had yeah like i m going to believe that without seeing the photos next you ll be telling me that beberg found a job he likes _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL ,0
today a french officer called michel fournier is supposed to get in a NUMBER metre tall helium balloon ride it up to the edge of space NUMBER km altitude and jump out his fall should last NUMBER NUMBER minutes and reach speeds of mach NUMBER NUMBER he hopes to open his parachute manually at the end although with an automatic backup if he is NUMBER seconds from the ground and still hasn t opened it r obquote veder si aver si grossi li coglioni come ha il re di franza let s see if i ve got as much balls as the king of france pope julius ii NUMBER january NUMBER ,0
 so uh would this qualify for the darwin awards if he doesn t make it freaking french people bb rh today a french officer called michel fournier is supposed to get in a rh NUMBER metre tall helium balloon ride it up to the edge of space NUMBER km rh altitude and jump out his fall should last NUMBER NUMBER minutes and reach rh speeds of mach NUMBER NUMBER he hopes to open his parachute manually at the rh end although with an automatic backup if he is NUMBER seconds from the rh ground and still hasn t opened it rh r rh obquote rh vederò si averò si grossi li coglioni come ha il re di franza rh let s see if i ve got as much balls as the king of france rh pope julius ii NUMBER january NUMBER best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am gary lawrence murphy garym canada com wrote j if you want a region of the globe mapped out to a very j high resolution e g NUMBER meter they can scan the area with j aircraft lidar and add it to the database thereby making that j region zoomable to the resolution of the database for that j area can you give us an example of an application where NUMBER m resolution would be worth the considerable expense an example being able to model rf propagation in three dimensions for a metro area when deploying wireless networks by having every single tree and building detail and similar you can see even tiny dead spots due to physical blockage and signal attenuation overlay this with fiber map data for yourself and your competitors when you can glean such data which is also useful at this resolution and you have a very slick way of modeling existing network deployments in excruciating detail and optimizing further deployments to maximize coverage and bandwidth take that and tie it into a slick geo physically aware real time network monitoring and management system and you ve really got something for many applications though NUMBER meter data is probably adequate james rogers jamesr URL ,0
robert harley gordon mohr wrote definitional nit to pick you ve redefined promiscuity above as total or average activity i think it s clear that i m talking about averages so i m not sure why that nit needs to be picked it was clear you were talking about averages but it should be equally clear that that isn t what people mean when they use the word promiscuity which seems to rob it of its common meaning activity above some specific threshold usually one in that case promiscous is a vacuous term in modern western societies but we knew that where people average NUMBER partners or so in their adult lives not at all there are still people who only have one partner there are many more whoe only have one partner over long periods of time so it is far from vacuous to describe some people as promiscuous and others as not promiscuous especially over a set period he was promiscuous in college he is no longer promiscuous the word has a clear meaning despite your continuing tendency to gloss that meaning over with population averages consider a population of NUMBER males and NUMBER females so in this contrived population females are more promiscuous than males so NUMBER girl gets NUMBER guy NUMBER girls get NUMBER guys NUMBER guys get NUMBER girl NUMBER guy gets NUMBER girls sounds like six of one versus half a dozen of the other to me ok then consider a population of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER men each pair off with NUMBER NUMBER women then NUMBER man let s call him wilt also has sex with the other NUMBER NUMBER women NUMBER NUMBER women have had more than one partner NUMBER NUMBER men have only had one partner it is now perfectly obvious that in the common meaning of the term among this contrived population that women are more promiscuous than men even though the single most promiscuous person wilt is a man promiscuity is not exactly perfectly identical between males and females except under a degenerate custom definition of promiscuity unless promiscuity is defined uselessly ain t nothin useless about averages averages are useful sure but much more so if called by their actual name rather than conflated with another concept gordon ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER gordon mohr wrote ok then consider a population of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER men each pair off with NUMBER NUMBER women then NUMBER man let s call him wilt also has sex with the other NUMBER NUMBER women it is not uncommon to find gay males who had sex with several thousands partners there would be more in fact lots more probably but a lot of them have died don t have to be a callboy if considering that you can have intercourse with several partners in a single day in a bathouse it doesn t look particularly difficult to do clearly this is not something what hets do prostitution not taken into account ,0
 j james rogers jamesr best com writes j an example being able to model rf propagation in three j dimensions for a metro area when deploying wireless networks j by having every single tree and building detail and similar j you can see even tiny dead spots due to physical blockage and j signal attenuation hmmm just as i thought in other words it has no practical uses whatsoever do the biz guys in your office really think wisps are really going to shell out their money to find a house or two they can t reach experience suggests a they won t care and b they will even sign up that errant house and then give them a run around blaming the dead spot on unsupported vendor equipment thus yes it is cool expensive toy with no apparent function gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am gary lawrence murphy garym canada com wrote j if you want a region of the globe mapped out to a very j high resolution e g NUMBER meter they can scan the area with j aircraft lidar and add it to the database thereby making that j region zoomable to the resolution of the database for that j area can you give us an example of an application where NUMBER m resolution would be worth the considerable expense planning battle tactics for this reason the intelligence press reports spy satellites have had NUMBER meter resolution for many years finding an individual vehicle in a city might occasionally be possible with NUMBER m images and might occasionally also be worth the money for small areas you have legitimate access to it s probably cheaper to go there with a digital camera and a gps and take some snapshots from ground level aerial photos might be cheaper for large areas areas where you re not allowed or perhaps physically able to go and cases where you don t have time to send a ground guy around the whole area kragen pobox com kragen sitaker URL edsger wybe dijkstra died in august of NUMBER the world has lost a great man see URL and URL for details ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm gary lawrence murphy garym canada com wrote j james rogers jamesr URL writes j an example being able to model rf propagation in three j dimensions for a metro area when deploying wireless networks j by having every single tree and building detail and similar j you can see even tiny dead spots due to physical blockage and j signal attenuation hmmm just as i thought in other words it has no practical uses whatsoever do the biz guys in your office really think wisps are really going to shell out their money to find a house or two they can t reach experience suggests a they won t care and b they will even sign up that errant house and then give them a run around blaming the dead spot on unsupported vendor equipment errrr the biz guys in my office don t care what the wisps want to do with their little wifi networks and the bandwidth shadows in most cities are surprisingly large and common they aren t selling the software which is pretty pricy as it happens they are using it to optimize next generation wireless canopies over metro areas and fiber networks on a large scale there are an essentially infinite number of metro wireless configurations some of which generate far more dead or marginal spots and others which are very expensive to operate due to backhaul transit considerations or both this software can be used as a tool to optimize the canopy coverage and minimize the actual transit costs since the wireless is tied into fiber at multiple points the canopies we are talking about aren t short range wifi technologies but a mixture of long range high performance wireless networking with bandwidth measured in tens to hundreds of mbits and ranges measured in miles up to well over a hundred miles on the extreme end at those ranges and bandwidth levels the cost of providing the network can easily vary by an order of magnitude or more depending on how you manage rf shadows and proximity to fiber access points the idea ultimately is to optimize the cost and performance such that no existing network infrastructure providers can remotely compete and maintain profitability this is a surprisingly low bar and it is about time networks were designed with this level of large scale optimization cost per mbit maximizing coverage and effective bandwidth available per unit area in any case and for this company s long term plans this type of capability will be absolutely necessary to keep things sane or at least investors find this capability very sexy and compelling especially since we have this lovely visualization engine tied into the system cli batches never have the same effect even if it is more efficient james rogers jamesr URL ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER eugen leitl wrote doesn t look particularly difficult to do clearly this is not something what hets do prostitution not taken into account so lets see hets dont go to swing clubs meat markets or the like at all hmm and being gay means hanging in the bath house being a cum dumpster while you listen to the devine ms m belt one out for the boys ugh with thinking like this who needs the bible belt ,0
who watched lathe of heaven a e NUMBER pm edt who has seen the original if it s airing now on the west coast do catch it gg ,0
 k kragen sitaker kragen pobox com writes k planning battle tactics for this reason the intelligence k press reports spy satellites have had NUMBER meter resolution for k many years the military already have these spy satellites they are basically hubble pointed the other way so i doubt they will be a big enough customer of this service to justify a next generation wireless network rollout for the rest of us k finding an individual vehicle in a city might occasionally be k possible with NUMBER m images and might occasionally also be worth k the money my car is only just over NUMBER NUMBER meters across and maybe NUMBER meters long so that means roughly six pixels total surface area you might find a NUMBER wheeler this way but how often do people misplace a NUMBER wheeler such that it is _that_ important to get old images of the terrain since they can t send up aircraft to update images in realtime every time how is this different from just releasing the map on dvds why wireless i thought of the common problem of lost prize cattle but there again will there really be business case for creating a hi res map of wyoming on the fly instead of just doing what they do now and hiring a helicopter for a few hours k for small areas you have legitimate access to it s probably k cheaper to go there with a digital camera and a gps and take k some snapshots from ground level aerial photos might be k cheaper for large areas areas where you re not allowed or k perhaps physically able to go and cases where you don t k have time to send a ground guy around the whole area i can see lower res being useful for geologists but considering their points of interest change only a few times every few million years there s not much need to be wireless based on up to the minute data i expect most geologists travel with a laptop perfectly capable of dvd playback and i also expect the most interesting geology is in regions where the wireless ain t going to go i don t mean to nit pick it s just that i m curious as to a the need for this product that justifies the extreme cost and b how we d justify the ubiquitous next generation wireless network that this product postulates when we still can t find the killer app for NUMBERg gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
 j james rogers jamesr best com writes j they aren t selling the software which is pretty pricy as j it happens they are using it to optimize next generation j wireless canopies over metro areas and fiber networks on a j large scale there are an essentially infinite number of metro j wireless configurations some of which generate far more dead j or marginal spots and others which are very expensive to j operate due to backhaul transit considerations or both this j software can be used as a tool to optimize the canopy coverage j and minimize the actual transit costs since the wireless is j tied into fiber at multiple points so you only need to map a handful of metropolitan areas j or at least investors find this capability very sexy and j compelling ah now that i will believe don t mind me i m just getting even more cynical in my old age gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm gary lawrence murphy garym canada com wrote my car is only just over NUMBER NUMBER meters across and maybe NUMBER meters long so that means roughly six pixels total surface area you might find a NUMBER wheeler this way but how often do people misplace a NUMBER wheeler such that it is _that_ important to get old images of the terrain since they can t send up aircraft to update images in realtime every time how is this different from just releasing the map on dvds why wireless it seems that several people are missing the point that this is not an image database it is high resolution topological data rendered in three dimensions images are overlayed on the topological data to help people navigate familiar terrain visually in other words it is not intended as a wannabe spy satellite rather it is a very accurate three dimensional model of the earth s surface when a particular region in question is covered in a city the buildings in the city are mapped as though they are part of the earth s surface the part that makes the app killer is that you can map all sorts of data layers on top of their core topological data got it james rogers jamesr URL ,0
i agree w ya tom that kind of thinking is so idiotic sure gays are promiscuous and so are hets but i betcha gays are more aidsphobic than hets generally speaking c on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER tom wrote on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER eugen leitl wrote doesn t look particularly difficult to do clearly this is not something what hets do prostitution not taken into account so lets see hets dont go to swing clubs meat markets or the like at all hmm and being gay means hanging in the bath house being a cum dumpster while you listen to the devine ms m belt one out for the boys ugh with thinking like this who needs the bible belt i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
gary lawrence murphy cynicizes hmmm just as i thought in other words it has no practical uses whatsoever tourism is the world s largest industry using this to preview your travels or figure out where you are would be very valuable online gaming continues to grow screw britannia real life britain would be a fun world to wander conquer explore virtually in role playing or real time strategy games and of course as james rogers points out it s an ideal display substrate for all sorts of other overlaid data maps are great photrealistic NUMBER d maps of everywhere which can have many other static and dynamic datasets overlaid are spectacular combining those last two thoughts consider the static world map in faded colors with patches here and there covered by live webcams stitched over the static info in bright colors it d be like the fog of war view in games like warcraft over the real world gordon ,0
 j james rogers jamesr best com writes j the part that makes the app killer is that you can map all j sorts of data layers on top of their core topological data j got it ah ok so some sample applications come to mind although none of them require wireless and would do with a dvd but nonetheless forestry maps of the terrain are essential in predicting the spread of forest fires esp if this is overlaid with the type of vegetation recent waterfall c farming conservation can use the high resolution terrain to overlay water tables or watershed info gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
on NUMBER sep NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote who watched lathe of heaven a e NUMBER pm edt who has seen the original by original if you are referring to the old pbs version i liked that version much better much more thought provoking ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER cdale wrote i agree w ya tom that kind of thinking is so idiotic sure gays so how many of your hetero friends had NUMBER k lovers are promiscuous and so are hets but i betcha gays are more aidsphobic than hets generally speaking the virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact bzzt switch on your brain you both i was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex industry is used to be extremely promiscuous about two orders of magnitude higher than average ,0
agreed completely i totally grokked the notion of unintened consequence with the original original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john evdemon sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re recommended viewing on NUMBER sep NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote who watched lathe of heaven a e NUMBER pm edt who has seen the original by original if you are referring to the old pbs version i liked that version much better much more thought provoking ,0
ok i read back thats not a typo you mean three thousand lovers where do you get your data it seems very unlikely but if you have supporting evidence i d like to see it chris on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER eugen leitl wrote on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER cdale wrote i agree w ya tom that kind of thinking is so idiotic sure gays so how many of your hetero friends had NUMBER k lovers are promiscuous and so are hets but i betcha gays are more aidsphobic than hets generally speaking the virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact bzzt switch on your brain you both i was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex industry is used to be extremely promiscuous about two orders of magnitude higher than average ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER chris haun wrote ok i read back thats not a typo you mean three thousand lovers where do you get your data it seems very unlikely but if you have supporting evidence i d like to see it i haven t seen any official data on the web the high ranking hits are overrun by religious bigots but there s some anecdotal evidence to be found in URL search for promiscuity they mention NUMBER to NUMBER partners a year anecdotally this is not a statistic they also mention that this was specific to gay males lesbians don t dig promiscuity in that degree ,0
 el on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER cdale wrote i agree w ya tom that kind of thinking is so idiotic sure gays el so how many of your hetero friends had NUMBER k lovers so eugen how many of your homo friends have had NUMBERk lovers in fact thats a general question for fork proper do you know anyone outside of meybee wilt chamberlin and a few of the gang bang porn queens who have had even NUMBER NUMBERk lovers eegads if you re hypothesizing numbers like that eugen you at least owe it to fork to back that shit up otherwise we re liable to assume rampant unfounded homophobia and that would just be a lose just a quick assumption here i m not a math geek or anything but assuming NUMBER lover every day that would be like at least one lover everyday for NUMBER years and some change i don t know about you but very very few of us are that lucky or even close to that lucky and after awhile even the sexaholics get bored and have to mingle something new into their weekends you really are assumiing that the homosexual population is a that large in a given area the meccas might qualify but try finding that kind of homosexual population in say tulsa oklahoma or manchester nh tho manchester does have quite a few nifty gaybars but thats a different story b that bored sex obsessed recreationally free to pursue sex that often with that many partners or that they d even want that many partners qualify yourself or at least lower your outrageous numbers bb are promiscuous and so are hets but i betcha gays are more aidsphobic than hets generally speaking el the virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact bzzt switch on your el brain you both i was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex el industry is used to be extremely promiscuous about two orders of el magnitude higher than average best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
in addition one bit of anecdotal evidence from a conversation in NUMBER in san fransisco is hardly enough to extrapolate NUMBER to NUMBERk this is the only quote i could find relating to promiscuity in homosexual men i think people feel a certain invulnerability especially young people like this disease doesn t affect me the publicity about the disease was very much the kind where it was easy to say that isn t me i m not promiscuous promiscuity especially was a piece where people could easily say well i m not promiscuous is more than i do if you have NUMBER partners a year you can think you re not promiscuous if you know somebody who has NUMBER so it s all relative and it was easy to feel that that isn t me you could find hets who have the same kind of partner volume bfd this kind of random generation of numbers that leads the nutty religious bigots as you mentioned earlier grr bits damnit now i must go brief bb el on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER cdale wrote i agree w ya tom that kind of thinking is so idiotic sure gays el so how many of your hetero friends had NUMBER k lovers bmn so eugen how many of your homo friends have had NUMBERk lovers bmn in fact thats a general question for fork proper bmn do you know anyone outside of meybee wilt chamberlin and a few of the bmn gang bang porn queens who have had even NUMBER NUMBERk lovers bmn eegads if you re hypothesizing numbers like that eugen you at bmn least owe it to fork to back that shit up bmn otherwise we re liable to assume rampant unfounded homophobia and that bmn would just be a lose bmn just a quick assumption here i m not a math geek or anything but bmn assuming NUMBER lover every day that would be like at least one lover bmn everyday for NUMBER years and some change i don t know about you but bmn very very few of us are that lucky or even close to that lucky bmn and after awhile even the sexaholics get bored and have to mingle bmn something new into their weekends you really are assumiing that the bmn homosexual population is a that large in a given area the meccas bmn might qualify but try finding that kind of homosexual population in bmn say tulsa oklahoma or manchester nh tho manchester does have quite bmn a few nifty gaybars but thats a different story b that bored sex bmn obsessed recreationally free to pursue sex that often with that many bmn partners or that they d even want that many partners bmn qualify yourself or at least lower your outrageous numbers bmn bb are promiscuous and so are hets but i betcha gays are more aidsphobic than hets generally speaking el the virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact bzzt switch on your el brain you both i was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex el industry is used to be extremely promiscuous about two orders of el magnitude higher than average best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
 so eugen how many of your homo friends have had NUMBERk lovers in fact thats a general question for fork proper uh zero i m sort of offended at having to take this question seriously like being black and having to actually explain that black people don t all sing and dance i d guess that gay men compared to straight men have a linearly greater number of sexual partners on the order of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERx but then again it not a monolithic or homogeneous community who knows NUMBERk is utter shite lucas ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER gordon mohr wrote gary lawrence murphy cynicizes hmmm just as i thought in other words it has no practical uses whatsoever online gaming continues to grow screw britannia real life britain would be a fun world to wander conquer explore virtually in role playing or real time strategy games andthus geocaching this would make a nice little let me check this set of coord out before we trek into NUMBER feet of quicksand ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote so eugen how many of your homo friends have had NUMBERk lovers just one not everybody does that most of them are now dead anyway do you know anyone outside of meybee wilt chamberlin and a few of the gang bang porn queens who have had even NUMBER NUMBERk lovers yes notice that i ve specifically excluded sex industry that be cheating eegads if you re hypothesizing numbers like that eugen you at least owe it to fork to back that shit up ain t done no hypothesizing anecdotal evidence r us couldn t you just google or something otherwise we re liable to assume rampant unfounded homophobia and that would just be a lose yeah i m a gay jew nazi muslim who s also a lead character on kaz s underworld can we go on with the programme now just a quick assumption here i m not a math geek or anything but assuming NUMBER lover every day that would be like at least one lover everyday for NUMBER years and some change i don t know about you but very very few of us are that lucky or even close to that lucky which was my point gurls don t do hyperpromiscuity as a life style it s interesting that you re launching into a diatribe and threaten using instant argument just add hominem instead of assuming i might be not just pulling this whole thing out my nether orifice and after awhile even the sexaholics get bored and have to mingle something new into their weekends you really are assumiing that the homosexual population is a that large in a given area the meccas you ever been to san francisco might qualify but try finding that kind of homosexual population in say tulsa oklahoma or manchester nh tho manchester does have quite yeah i think it could be also difficult finding a gay bathhouse in thule greenland or parts of central africa to think of it both oort and kuiper belts are utterly devoid of gay people as well isn t this remarkable a few nifty gaybars but thats a different story b that bored sex obsessed recreationally free to pursue sex that often with that many partners or that they d even want that many partners this doesn t happen because it couldn t happen no one would want to because you feel that way correct qualify yourself or at least lower your outrageous numbers i didn t expect so much reflexive knee jerking on this list ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER lucas gonze wrote NUMBERk is utter shite NUMBERk is a number that probably sounds good to some closted homophobe with secret desires to be belle of the balls twinks dinks and dorks this thread sounds to me like someone needs a little luvin ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER lucas gonze wrote a linearly greater number of sexual partners on the order of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERx but then again it not a monolithic or homogeneous community who knows did i claim all gay people are hyperpromiscuous for what this is worth i would claim they re considerably more promiscuous on the average than your average het my utterly unscientific unsubstatiated claim is that the typical male would like to be considerably more promiscous than your average female ay and here s the rub pray don t forget the kleenex look up different reproduction strategies due to basic hardware difference sexual dimorphism you d do that too if it happened to you once you go past the first three of four pages of hysterical propaganda on google you might actually run into real studies anyone game i have to work well pretend to NUMBERk is utter shite this is getting better and better you know NUMBERk is utter shite how you just feel the number can t be right yes deep inside i m way overposting today but i find this entire exchange hee lay rious ,0
tom wrote NUMBERk is a number that probably sounds good to some closted homophobe with secret desires to be belle of the balls twinks dinks and dorks this thread sounds to me like someone needs a little luvin i dunno if i d accuse everybody who believes the NUMBERk number of needing a little luvin but i completely believe that this myth has survived because there s a lot of people who need more lovin plus it fits in with a bunch of different archetypes lucas ,0
 el on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote so eugen how many of your homo friends have had NUMBERk lovers el just one not everybody does that most of them are now dead anyway point is you re not likely to extrapolate much i could probably find one hetero who had just as much sex does that mean we re all rampant hos no eegads if you re hypothesizing numbers like that eugen you at least owe it to fork to back that shit up el ain t done no hypothesizing anecdotal evidence r us couldn t you just el google or something listen if you pull numbers like that without a fact the automagic assumption is yes they were extracted out of your neither orifice point wasn t to conclude otherwise unless you had any relevant bits its not my job to do _your_ bit searching for you but i figured i d humor fork with this bit of finding URL pointing ot averages of about NUMBER for every NUMBER months for gay men which totals to about NUMBER a year NUMBER a year doesn t equal NUMBER or even NUMBER just a quick assumption here i m not a math geek or anything but assuming NUMBER lover every day that would be like at least one lover everyday for NUMBER years and some change i don t know about you but very very few of us are that lucky or even close to that lucky el which was my point gurls don t do hyperpromiscuity as a life style it s el interesting that you re launching into a diatribe and threaten using el instant argument just add hominem instead of assuming i might be not el just pulling this whole thing out my nether orifice wtf do my shitty math skillz have to do with girls and hyperpromiscuity i was speaking generally meaning that guys and girls probably have better things to do than boink everything they see as above i am assuming you re pulling things out of your ass i just felt like calling you on it btw there s nothing wrong with calling someone on a silly idea its allowed and its generally not considered ad hominem but the homophobia statement might be and after awhile even the sexaholics get bored and have to mingle something new into their weekends you really are assumiing that the homosexual population is a that large in a given area the meccas el you ever been to san francisco many times which is why i said assuming that large the meccas dont count sf is a mecca in this example i obviously wasn t clear tho one could assume i wasn t talking about medina a few nifty gaybars but thats a different story b that bored sex obsessed recreationally free to pursue sex that often with that many partners or that they d even want that many partners el this doesn t happen because it couldn t happen no one would want to el because you feel that way correct doesn t happen true couldn t happen who knows it has nothing to do with how i feel and everything to do with the fact that people do concern themselves with more than just sex otherwise i think we d see a helluva lot more of sex and a helluva lot less of everything else qualify yourself or at least lower your outrageous numbers el i didn t expect so much reflexive knee jerking on this list well my suggestion is if you can t take the responses don t post flamebait best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
 on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER eugen leitl wrote on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER cdale wrote i agree w ya tom that kind of thinking is so idiotic sure gays so how many of your hetero friends had NUMBER k lovers none how many of my gay friends have had NUMBERk lovers none are promiscuous and so are hets but i betcha gays are more aidsphobic than hets generally speaking the virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact bzzt switch on your brain you both i was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex industry is used to be extremely promiscuous about two orders of magnitude higher than average two orders of magnitude higher than average isn t NUMBERk i don t think why don t ya give us a url or something that told you all this stuff or did you just pull it out of your ass c ,0
 this is getting better and better you know NUMBERk is utter shite how i m not going to be your spokesman eugen figure it out yourself over and out ,0
bitbitch writes listen if you pull numbers like that without a fact the automagic assumption is yes they were extracted out of your neither orifice point wasn t to conclude otherwise unless you had any relevant bits its not my job to do _your_ bit searching for you but i figured i d humor fork with this bit of finding URL pointing ot averages of about NUMBER for every NUMBER months for gay men which totals to about NUMBER a year NUMBER a year doesn t equal NUMBER or even NUMBER er that study would seem to lend credence to eugen s estimations rather than casting fresh doubts NUMBER a year does exceed NUMBER in under NUMBER years time the average age of that study s participants was NUMBER meaning some participants may have had NUMBER NUMBER years of active sex life at that age and further hiv it seems reasonable to think that some the participants may have actually slowed their pace a bit so while this study s summary info is incomplete you could easily conclude that the average participant in this one study will have had over a thousand partners over a NUMBER NUMBER year active sex life and so the even more active tails of the distribution could easily be in the NUMBER range of course this says very little almost nothing about the overall population behavior gay or straight and the relative prevalence of NUMBERk individuals in either group but it does strongly suggest that gay males with NUMBERk partners exist in measurable numbers so people should stop treating eugen s anecdotal estimation as if it were sheer fantasy bitbitch s own citation suggests otherwise gordon ,0
 begin forwarded text priority normal date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER reply to law policy of computer communications cyberia l URL sender law policy of computer communications cyberia l URL comments authenticated sender is jakobs URL from kai jakobs kai jakobs URL subject cyberia final cfp int j on it standards research to cyberia l URL hello just a brief reminder that the deadline for submisisons for issue NUMBER of the international journal of it standards standardization research jitsr is october NUMBER jitsr is a new multi disciplinary publication outlet for everyone who is doing research into it standards and standardisation from whichever perspective so if you think you ve got a paper that might fit why not submit it for jitsr and please do ask if you need any further information greetings from aachen cheers kai call for papers for issue NUMBER of the international journal of it standards standardization research this new journal aims to be a platform for presenting and discussing the broad variety of aspects that make up it standards research this includes but is certainly not limited to contributions from the disciplines of computer science information systems management business social sciences especially science and technology studies economics engineering political science public policy sociology communication and human factors usability in particular the journal wants to both support and promote multi disciplinary research on it standards it should be understood in a very broad sense topics to be covered include but are not limited to technological innovation and standardisation standards for information infrastructures standardisation and economic development open source and standardisation intellectual property rights economics of standardisation emerging roles of formal standards organisations and consortia conformity assessment national regional international and corporate standards strategies standardisation and regulation standardisation as a form of the public sphere standardisation and public policy formation analyses of standards setting processes products and organisation case studies of standardisation impacts of market driven standardisation and emerging players the future of standardisation multinational and transnational perspectives and impacts commercial value of proprietary specifications descriptive prescriptive theories of standardisation standards research and education activities tools and services supporting improved standardisation user related issues risks of standardisation management of standards history of standards standards and technology transfer authors are requested to submit their manuscripts as an e mail attachment in rtf or pdf to the editor in chief at kai jakobs URL if this form of submission is not possible please send one hardcopy of the manuscript together with a disk containing the electronic version of the manuscript in rtf or pdf to kai jakobs technical university of aachen computer science department informatik iv ahornstr NUMBER d NUMBER aachen germany manuscripts must be written in english on letter size or aNUMBER paper one side only double spaced throughout and include at least NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cm of margin on all sides the cover page should contain the paper title and the name affiliation address phone number fax number and e mail address of each author the second page should start with the paper title at the top and be immediately followed by the abstract except on the cover page the authors names and affiliations must not appear in the manuscript the abstract of NUMBER NUMBER words should clearly summarise the objectives and content of the manuscript submitted manuscript should normally be NUMBER NUMBER words long longer ones will be considered but may be subject to editorial revision submission of a paper implies that its content is original and that it has not been published previously and that it is not under consideration for publication elsewhere yet significantly extended papers previously presented at conferences may be acceptable for more information please see URL or visit the publisher s web site at URL important dates for the inaugural issue submission deadline for issue NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER notification of acceptance december NUMBER NUMBER camera ready paper due january NUMBER NUMBER ________________________________________________________________ kai jakobs technical university of aachen computer science department informatik iv communication and distributed systems ahornstr NUMBER d NUMBER aachen germany tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER kai jakobs URL URL for listserv instructions see URL off topic threads URL need more help send mail to cyberia l request URL end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
just thought i d pass this on my favorite radio station in raleigh is going off the internet due to the new fees and restrictions associated with remaining online this is from the station manager and describes the situation forwarded message date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from arielle gm wknc org subject re knc stream NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this message was sent from wknc chat URL it does but it s not the cost that is causing us to shut it down the cost is a minimum NUMBER per year but that only accounts for NUMBER people streaming and playing like NUMBER or NUMBER songs an hour but we could maybe manage the NUMBER cents per person per NUMBER songs the problem comes with the record keeping they mandate with webstreaming start and end times for every song not too hard artist okay title okay composers a little harder serial number wtf i think there are a few more things they wanted but honestly programming this info in for every song that we play is ridiculous this means we d also have to get all the djs to find this info and write it down any time they play a request vinyl or cds not loaded into the computer it s ridiculous and nearly impossible we would need someone to sit in the studio NUMBER NUMBER writing down all this info which sometimes isn t available like from earlier album that don t have serial numbers and barcodes then still if only the magic NUMBER people webstream our signal the price would become quite exponential since we play on average NUMBER songs an hour we d be paying NUMBER NUMBER everyday to stream to those NUMBER people so really it does have to do with the internet tax but it is a few reasons together why we can t do it after their kill date sent using phorum software version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER http phorum org ,0
here are numbers that come from a study of a couple of thousand swedes with no reference to sexual preference that i could find the point would seem to be that NUMBER sexual activity follows a power curve with a few people a la wilt chamberlain having an extaordinarily large number of sexual contacts ev en in a short period of time and NUMBER a tendency for men to have more partners than women i have no idea being a statistical ignoramus whether the fact that there seem to be more men than women at the extremely promiscuous end of the sex partners distribution curve means that you d get even more extreme results in a group of men who chiefly have sex with other men URL for example the mean number of partners since sexual initiation for women is approximately NUMBER and in a sample of less than NUMBER swedish women we find an individual with NUMBER partners for men the mean is approximately NUMBER and we find an individual with NUMBER partners which is almost NUMBER times larger than the mean so somehow don juan was not such an extraordinary case but just one data point in a wide spectrum of behaviors that can be observed as for gay men there is indeed anecdotal evidence of cases of extreme promiscuity among gay men you can read about it in randy schiltz s and the band played on he writes about bathhouse culture pre hiv he also discusses how in the gay politics of the time there was a sub culture of what you might call radical gay men who argued and acted on the argument that having many partners was an essential part of what being gay actually was it was an explicitly political statement monogamy is an artifact of straight culture that view seems to have died in more ways than one part of the point of schiltz s book was to condemn the role that it and bathhouse culture played in spreading the aids epidemic that eventually killed schiltz among so many others this doesn t let eugen off the hook but it is accurate to say that there was a cult of promiscuity that was particular to the gay community tom ,0
chris haun wrote we would need someone to sit in the studio NUMBER NUMBER writing down all this info which sometimes isn t available like from earlier album that don t have serial numbers and barcodes then still if only the magic NUMBER people webstream our signal the price would become quite exponential since we play on average NUMBER songs an hour we d be paying NUMBER NUMBER everyday to stream to those NUMBER people so really it does have to do with the internet tax but it is a few reasons together why we can t do it after their kill date who is john galt rous in the throes of reading atlas shrugged again ken p ken coar sanagendamgagwedweinini URL author developer opinionist URL millennium hand and shrimp ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gordon mohr wrote calculations elided of course this says very little almost nothing about the overall population behavior gay or straight and the relative prevalence of NUMBERk individuals in either group but it does strongly suggest that gay males with NUMBERk partners exist in measurable numbers so people should stop treating eugen s anecdotal estimation as if it were sheer fantasy bitbitch s own citation suggests otherwise that math stuff s a um bitch i nit cheers rah who could care less who boinks whom or for how much though watching the righteous anger tm around here this morning has been amusing r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 why so fast normal terminal velocity is much slower original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of bitbitch URL sent sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to robert harley cc fork URL subject re the big jump so uh would this qualify for the darwin awards if he doesn t make it freaking french people bb rh today a french officer called michel fournier is supposed to get in a rh NUMBER metre tall helium balloon ride it up to the edge of space NUMBER km rh altitude and jump out his fall should last NUMBER NUMBER minutes and reach rh speeds of mach NUMBER NUMBER he hopes to open his parachute manually at the rh end although with an automatic backup if he is NUMBER seconds from the rh ground and still hasn t opened it rh r rh obquote rh vederò si averò si grossi li coglioni come ha il re di franza rh let s see if i ve got as much balls as the king of france rh pope julius ii NUMBER january NUMBER best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
isn t this the story where someone s dream has the ability to change reality then you find the whole world is their dream original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of geege schuman sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to john evdemon cc fork URL subject re recommended viewing agreed completely i totally grokked the notion of unintened consequence with the original original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john evdemon sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re recommended viewing on NUMBER sep NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote who watched lathe of heaven a e NUMBER pm edt who has seen the original by original if you are referring to the old pbs version i liked that version much better much more thought provoking ,0
john hall wrote why so fast normal terminal velocity is much slower not at NUMBER NUMBER m i found this article URL the last person to try to break the highest free fall record died in the attempt in NUMBER new jersey truck driver nick piantanida suffered catastrophic equipment failure when his facemask blew out at NUMBER NUMBER feet lack of oxygen caused such severe brain damage that he went into a coma and died four months later and in amongst the flash at URL you can discover that he will break the sound barrier at NUMBER NUMBER m presumably reaching top speed somewhere above NUMBER NUMBER owen original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of bitbitch URL sent sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to robert harley cc fork URL subject re the big jump so uh would this qualify for the darwin awards if he doesn t make it freaking french people bb rh today a french officer called michel fournier is supposed to get in a rh NUMBER metre tall helium balloon ride it up to the edge of space NUMBER km rh altitude and jump out his fall should last NUMBER NUMBER minutes and reach rh speeds of mach NUMBER NUMBER he hopes to open his parachute manually at the rh end although with an automatic backup if he is NUMBER seconds from the rh ground and still hasn t opened it rh r rh obquote rh vederò si averò si grossi li coglioni come ha il re di franza rh let s see if i ve got as much balls as the king of france rh pope julius ii NUMBER january NUMBER best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER john hall wrote why so fast normal terminal velocity is much slower terminal velocity can be calculated by v_ t sqrt frac NUMBERmg cpa where c is an experimentally determined coefficient p is the density of the air and a is the area of the object these calculations only work if the object is blunt and the airflow is turbulent blah blah blah terminal velocity for a skydiver actually varies with how the diver holds themselves you go faster if you pull yourself into a cannonball that is the a for the most part all else being equal the terminal velocity is inversely proportional to the square root of air density air density drops off pretty quickly and i really should be doing something other than digging up the math for that i think it involves calculus to integrate the amount of mass as the column of the atmosphere trails off i grabbed the other stuff directly out of a book in NUMBER a guy named gregory robertson noticed a fellow parachutist debbie williams had been knocked unconscious he shifted so that he was head down hit about NUMBER mi h and caught up with her and pulled her chute with NUMBER seconds to spare njl ,0
more accurately someone s dream changes reality for everyone and everyone s memory adjusts to perceive the new realities as a continuum replete with new pasts and new memories ever have dreams that create their own history to make their irrealities plausible and authentic feeling ever notice how the feelings evoked in some dreams stick with you all day i m sure it s some neurochemical process initiated during the dream that is still cycling thru like a deja vu triggered by memory processes where you don t actually remember but you feel like you re remembering ggggggggg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john hall sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject re recommended viewing isn t this the story where someone s dream has the ability to change reality then you find the whole world is their dream original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of geege schuman sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to john evdemon cc fork URL subject re recommended viewing agreed completely i totally grokked the notion of unintened consequence with the original original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john evdemon sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re recommended viewing on NUMBER sep NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote who watched lathe of heaven a e NUMBER pm edt who has seen the original by original if you are referring to the old pbs version i liked that version much better much more thought provoking ,0
on monday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm geege schuman wrote ever notice how the feelings evoked in some dreams stick with you all day i m sure it s some neurochemical process initiated during the dream that is still cycling thru like a deja vu triggered by memory processes where you don t actually remember but you feel like you re remembering absolutely and i ve wanted to recapture it i ve done some writing based on dreams and there is a mysterious mood to that feeling that drives some creative stuff for me i ve never tried to write music in that state but i will next time eirikur ,0
any of your writing online anywhere would love to take a look i was plagued with night terrors for years and tried to capture that feeling after waking up if you want to call that waking up but was never able to cindy on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER eirikur hallgrimsson wrote on monday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm geege schuman wrote ever notice how the feelings evoked in some dreams stick with you all day i m sure it s some neurochemical process initiated during the dream that is still cycling thru like a deja vu triggered by memory processes where you don t actually remember but you feel like you re remembering absolutely and i ve wanted to recapture it i ve done some writing based on dreams and there is a mysterious mood to that feeling that drives some creative stuff for me i ve never tried to write music in that state but i will next time eirikur i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
 g geege schuman geege barrera org writes g i m sure it s some neurochemical process initiated during g the dream that is still cycling thru like a deja vu g triggered by memory processes where you don t actually g remember but you feel like you re remembering that s very perceptive of you many people are not so willing to accept their personal reality as skewed by their neuro physiology a great many popular con games exist by exploiting the perceptions of these states another oft exploited neuro plausibility the brain is a pretty darn fine analog associative computer so it could be the neurochemical events during the dream have associated themselves with some inner or external cue to mentally _recreate_ the state perception like the predictable tone on striking a bell gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
 e eirikur hallgrimsson eh mad scientist com writes e absolutely and i ve wanted to recapture it i don t know about this particular mood but i have used neuro conditioning with aiding children in stressful life circumstances basically you somehow evoke the state you want and when you get it you do something odd anything at all will do but i used a gentle vulcan grip on their shoulder later when faced with the uncomfortable situation you can retrieve part of that earlier more desireable state by giving them the pinch it s not perfect like you get with simpler brains but it is an inescapable effect this is probably the neuro effect that leads to performance enhancing superstitions such as bob dylan not performing without his favourite jean jacket because it provides the cue to a more relaxed mental state he really does play better with it than without it gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
well for one it would free up the similar laptop i already got to just run amithlon or if that wasn t so fun bsd to run just openbsd this is a near term thing i could look forward to however an official laptop seems unexciting to me with only the items mentioned most important are the particulars distinguishing the listed spec from a dell NUMBER preferably NUMBER geforceNUMBER NUMBER go or newer pleasingly modern gpu the geforceNUMBERgo with NUMBERmb video ram too little i have is not so much too slow as inefficient with factory settings it would actually crash from running too hot and too fast accelerating the ami and possibly openuae graphics is a necessity to meet for good speed in those environments but an energy efficient gpu is a good sideeffect and portability read battery lifetime enabler NUMBER NUMBER great control over cpu state by use of internet keys wired to bios bhipset routines directly or preferably a scroll wheel also hibernate that works please NUMBER NUMBER bootable to usb NUMBER NUMBER drives e g larger external ones in bios please NUMBER pNUMBER dells overheat they have a big heatsink and a little fan to pull air through it and if you don t elevate thelaptop off the desk or table or bed it s on the fan will stay on not good for mtbs mean time between service unless you ve got an angle on making money on service from amigans one excellent solution is to include a heatpipe which runs behind the amlcd thus using the backside of the display half as a radiator though it interferes with the case notion below yes aavid or such makes some as a standard part i prefer to include the heatpipe but employ the radiative mass in elevating the laptop i e in the form of a catch handle and second logo device behind the laptop which generally provides stow and attachment for elevation legs move them out farther to get to the next higher ekevation until the sides of the laptop are met this also happens to provide a little protection for usb NUMBER and NUMBER cables that i tend to keep plugged in all the time a bit longer port life please NUMBER a case color other than brown or black and preferably if the display module nre is entirely permissive the capability to run with the backlight off again to save battery power but also as a feature maybe you remember the ibooks modified in this manner the user has the privilege to pull out the backlight diffuser and fiberoptic lightpipe cf assembly with its backreflector and the whole warrantee this provides for excellent outdoor use often with the diffuser reinserted to keep depth of field distractions minimised what would i like aNUMBER putty color any translucency in or over a rosewood colored in kde color browser i see chocolate firebrick and a couple of indian red that are great candidates base i would also like to be able to at least turn off the backlight without closing the lid and to be able to fit an external light source such as a uv filtered solar collector and glare hood to feed into the backlight not only does this make an excellent color environment but lets one work outdoors tolerably the logo should be a coloration of a minimal surface as the maa is trying to get me to renew with demos at URL at first blush we ll see what comes out of the contest and maybe you ll like the mapping mathcad does of the logo to a minimal surface or manifold that reflects the openness of amigaos ami and amiga community URL has more references i m sure NUMBER obviously elfin details e g the backlight inlet other details usbNUMBER x preferred firewire would be needed if that s unavailable options like NUMBER NUMBERb or attabhable wifi hub for ethernet port should round out the offering an option for just released NUMBER micron pNUMBER with mobile power features could make more reviewers greenlight the series much better power consumption and almost certainly a higher a top clock come with that compactflash smartmedia and mmc flash memory card interfaces would be very pleasant i ve mentioned booting to usb and booting from cf would be a pleasant extigency also to that end a backup solution with compression using usb NUMBER storage or the multimode drive is always a nice bundle item that or a chance to back out a patch under NUMBER os blue skies and clear water and fresh air waterproof to NUMBER feet NUMBER ethernet ports plus onboard wifi svelte NUMBER line frontpanel lcd and bright red pager led builtin gNUMBER cellphone functions choice of side and frontpanel trim ivory like stuff inscribed with mNUMBERk memory map and various os NUMBER NUMBER structures or textured fur that says this is amiga speaking when stroked round decent keyboard as in toshiba or ibm laptops perhaps an ergonomic URL device they work as keyboard and mouse as the keyboard trackpad NUMBER directional planar mics atop amlcd soundcard with multiple NUMBER bit a d and noise reduction dsp that work in our second through fourth at least favorite os actual NUMBER bellows pulls out at nominal ventilation fan location for real void comp the test in blade runner style cooling and extended bass active cooling and airfiltering is available to adjust humidity at user seat and provide mineral water hypertransport ports ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER ned jackson lovely wrote in NUMBER a guy named gregory robertson noticed a fellow parachutist debbie williams had been knocked unconscious he shifted so that he was head down hit about NUMBER mi h and caught up with her and pulled her chute with NUMBER seconds to spare iirc it s NUMBER km s spreadeagled and NUMBER km h head down ,0
you meant surprisingly perceptive didn t you recent exceptionally vivid and strange dreams lead me to believe i m sparking synapses that have lain dormant lo these many years lots of problem solving going on up there at night original message from garym URL mailto garym URL on behalf of gary lawrence murphy sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to geege schuman cc johnhall evergo net fork subject re recommended viewing g geege schuman geege barrera org writes g i m sure it s some neurochemical process initiated during g the dream that is still cycling thru like a deja vu g triggered by memory processes where you don t actually g remember but you feel like you re remembering that s very perceptive of you many people are not so willing to accept their personal reality as skewed by their neuro physiology a great many popular con games exist by exploiting the perceptions of these states another oft exploited neuro plausibility the brain is a pretty darn fine analog associative computer so it could be the neurochemical events during the dream have associated themselves with some inner or external cue to mentally _recreate_ the state perception like the predictable tone on striking a bell gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
gordon mohr it was clear you were talking about averages but it should be equally clear that that isn t what people mean when they use the word promiscuity sigh this sprung out of a report linked by cindy about the promiscuity of female monkeys with males other than the alpha male i e specifically not the tail end of the distribution by mating with as many extra group males as possible female langurs ensure etc ok then consider a population of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER men each pair off with NUMBER NUMBER women then NUMBER man let s call him wilt also has sex with the other NUMBER NUMBER women this has never happened its relevance is nil averages are useful sure but much more so if called by their actual name rather than conflated with another concept so i chose not to type on average explicitly in my post since this is fork and one tends to assume that people have a clue there is no disagreement between us except that i am more interested in typical behaviour and you in extreme actually you probably just had a bad day and felt like jumping down my throat for the hell of it eot afaic r ,0
 g geege schuman geege barrera org writes g you meant surprisingly perceptive didn t you of course dear especially without zazen training veritably operational thetan like g recent exceptionally vivid and strange dreams lead me to g believe i m sparking synapses that have lain dormant lo these g many years lots of problem solving going on up there at g night it s a myth that we don t use parts of our brain we use it all always it s just that our culturally induced focal point causes most of us to most of the time ignore and waste NUMBER NUMBER of it lucid is a measure of notch filter bandwidth all stations are broadcasting but we only choose easy rock NUMBER for example don t look now but your shoes are full of feet the sensation of toes the above statement evokes is not a turning on of circuits it is a tuning in the next step of course is to drop out to paraphrase an old saw life is wasted on the living gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
on NUMBER sep NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote it s a myth that we don t use parts of our brain we use it all always it s just that our culturally induced focal point causes most of us to most of the time ignore and waste NUMBER NUMBER of it lucid is a measure of notch filter bandwidth all stations are broadcasting but we only choose easy rock NUMBER for example don t look now but your shoes are full of feet nice imagery when the filters come down choose your method it is very much the case not only are your shoes full of toes but your toes are full of bones blood muscle and toejam all these things are evident unless you got your filters up life the ultimate spam tom ,0
 i m not sure which way to make the old bits call on this a URL was posted well after b URL was in the archives but then again b didn t bother with any commentary new bits if you two can agree upon who was at fault penance will be to explain how feedback phase is affected by time lags and tie that in to the spontaneous generation of business cycles in the beer game dave URL see also explaining capacity overshoot and price war misperceptions of feedback in competitive growth markets URL in which the scenario NUMBER margin oriented tit for tat seems close to the strategy described in game theoretical gandhi more laptops URL ,0
this article from URL has been sent to you by khare URL sure does explain fork not yet abandoned rohit khare URL some friends indeed do more harm than good september NUMBER NUMBER by mary duenwald friends are supposed to be good for you in recent years scientific research has suggested that people who have strong friendships experience less stress they recover more quickly from heart attacks and they are likely to live longer than the friendless they are even less susceptible to the common cold studies show but not all friends have such a salutary effect some lie insult and betray some are overly needy some give too much advice psychologists and sociologists are now calling attention to the negative health effects of bad friends friendship is often very painful said dr harriet lerner a psychologist and the author of the dance of connection in a close enduring friendship jealousy envy anger and the entire range of difficult emotions will rear their heads one has to decide whether the best thing is to consider it a phase in a long friendship or say this is bad for my health and i m disbanding it another book when friendship hurts by dr jan yager a sociologist at the university of connecticut at stamford advises deliberately leaving bad friends by the wayside there s this myth that friendships should last a lifetime dr yager said but sometimes it s better that they end that social scientists would wait until now to spotlight the dangers of bad friends is understandable considering that they have only recently paid close attention to friendship at all marriage and family relationships between siblings or parents and children have been seen as more important of course troubled friendships are far less likely to lead to depression or suicide than troubled marriages are and children are seldom seriously affected when friendships go bad as a popular author of relationship advice books dr lerner said never once have i had anyone write and say my best friend hits me dr beverley fehr a professor of psychology at the university of winnipeg noted that sociological changes like a NUMBER percent divorce rate have added weight to the role of friends in emotional and physical health now that a marital relationship can t be counted on for stability the way it was in the past and because people are less likely to be living with or near extended family members people are shifting their focus to friendships as a way of building community and finding intimacy said dr fehr the author of friendship processes until the past couple of years the research on friendship focused on its health benefits now we re starting to look at it as a more full relationship said dr suzanna rose a professor of psychology at florida international university in miami like marriage friendship also has negative characteristics the research is in its infancy psychologists have not yet measured the ill effects of bad friendship dr fehr said so far they have only through surveys and interviews figured out that it is a significant problem the early research dr fehr added is showing that betrayal by a friend can be more devastating than experts had thought how can a friend be bad most obviously dr rose said by drawing a person into criminal or otherwise ill advised pursuit when you think of people who were friends at enron she added you can see how friendship can support antisocial behavior betrayal also makes for a bad friendship when friends split up said dr keith e davis a professor of psychology at the university of south carolina it is often in cases where one has shared personal information or secrets that the other one wanted to be kept confidential another form of betrayal dr yager said is when a friend suddenly turns cold without ever explaining why it s more than just pulling away she said the silent treatment is actually malicious at least as devastating is an affair with the friend s romantic partner as recently happened to one of dr lerner s patients i would not encourage her to hang in there and work this one out dr lerner said a third type of bad friendship involves someone who insults the other person dr yager said one of the NUMBER people who responded to dr yager s most recent survey on friendship described how when she was NUMBER her best friend called her a derogatory name the woman now NUMBER was so devastated that she feels she has been unable to be fully open with people ever since dr yager said emotional abuse may be less noticeable than verbal abuse but it is more insidious dr yager said some people constantly set up their friends she explained they ll have a party not invite the friend but make sure he or she finds out risk takers betrayers and abusers are the most extreme kinds of bad friends dr yager said but they are not the only ones she identifies NUMBER different varieties occupying the second tier of badness are the liar the person who is overly dependent the friend who never listens the person who meddles too much in a friend s life the competitor and the loner who prefers not to spend time with friends most common is the promise breaker this includes everyone from the person who says let s have a cup of coffee but something always comes up at the last minute to someone who promises to be there for you when you need them but then isn t dr yager said some friendships go bad as some romantic relationships do when one of the people gradually or suddenly finds reasons to dislike the other one with couples it can take NUMBER to NUMBER months for someone to discover there s something important they don t like about the other person said dr rose of florida international one might find for example that in subtle ways the other person is a racist in friendships which are less intense it may take even more time for one person to meet the other s dislike criteria whether a friendship is worth saving dr lerner said depends on how large the injury is sometimes the mature thing is to lighten up and let something go she added it s also an act of maturity sometimes to accept another person s limitations acceptance should come easier among friends than among spouses dr lerner said because people have more than one friend and do not need a full range of emotional support from each one but if the friendship has deteriorated to the point where one friend truly dislikes the other one or finds that the friendship is causing undue stress the healthy response is to pull away dr yager said to stop sharing the personal or intimate details of life and start being too busy to get together ever it takes two people to start and maintain a friendship but only one to end it dr yager said friendship because it is voluntary and unregulated is far easier to dissolve than marriage but it is also comparatively fragile experts say ideally the loss of a bad friendship should leave a person with more time and appreciation for good ones dr lerner said it is wise to pay attention to your friendships and have them in order while you re healthy and your life and work are going well she said because when a crisis hits when someone you love dies or you lose your job and your health insurance when the universe gives you a crash course in vulnerability you will discover how crucial and life preserving good friendship is URL how to advertise for information on advertising in e mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with the new york times on the web please contact onlinesales URL or visit our online media kit at URL for general information about URL write to help URL copyright NUMBER the new york times company ,0
robert harley writes ok then consider a population of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER men each pair off with NUMBER NUMBER women then NUMBER man let s call him wilt also has sex with the other NUMBER NUMBER women this has never happened its relevance is nil it was a extreme contrived example because you glosded over the point of the earlier NUMBER person example but ok mr math let it be n men and women for any n NUMBER they all pair off then some number h n h NUMBER of men has sex with all the other n NUMBER women he hasn t yet had sex with pick any n and h that might be interesting any choice of values results in meaningful differences between the sexes promiscuity as commonly understood it should be more obvious with extreme choices of numbers but it is also true for any choice of n and h if unrealistic totals distract you further and i was hoping this would be clear without saying so outright this model actually approximates the cliche common wisdom about per gender sexual behavior if you reverse the male and female roles those stereotypes are that more men than women seek multiple partners men being more promiscuous than women and that surplus of male interest is satisfied by a smaller number of hyperpromiscuous women often derisively labelled sluts so i chose not to type on average explicitly in my post since this is fork and one tends to assume that people have a clue there is no disagreement between us except that i am more interested in typical behaviour and you in extreme nope now you ve amended the meaning of your initial statement to make it more defensible what i objected to was robert harley the assumption that females of all species tend to be less promiscuous than males simply does not fit the facts hrdy contended well duh it is perfectly obvious that heterosexual promiscuity is exactly precisely identical between males and females of course the shapes of the distributions may differ if you assumed people on fork had a clue would you have needed to jump in with a patronizing duh if you were talking about fuzzy typical behavior would you have huffed and puffed with the words perfectly obvious and exactly precisely identical if your concern was with the typical why didn t you adopt the typical definition of promiscuous rather than a straw man definition which allowed you to interject duh and mock an anthrolopology professor s conclusions actually you probably just had a bad day and felt like jumping down my throat for the hell of it you are welcome to that theory but here s an alternate theory when you jump in with a patronizing and overblown pronouncement e g duh perfectly obvious exactly precisely identical and that pronouncement is itself sloppy and erroneous then others may get a kick out of popping your balloon gordon ,0
dreams are like radio analogy i program my jetta monsoon for planet NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER s NUMBER NUMBER and npr NUMBER NUMBER but when i leave my local broadcast range i have to scan for new stations dreaming is outside my local broadcast range original message from garym URL mailto garym URL on behalf of gary lawrence murphy sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to geege schuman cc johnhall evergo net fork subject re recommended viewing g geege schuman geege barrera org writes g you meant surprisingly perceptive didn t you of course dear especially without zazen training veritably operational thetan like g recent exceptionally vivid and strange dreams lead me to g believe i m sparking synapses that have lain dormant lo these g many years lots of problem solving going on up there at g night it s a myth that we don t use parts of our brain we use it all always it s just that our culturally induced focal point causes most of us to most of the time ignore and waste NUMBER NUMBER of it lucid is a measure of notch filter bandwidth all stations are broadcasting but we only choose easy rock NUMBER for example don t look now but your shoes are full of feet the sensation of toes the above statement evokes is not a turning on of circuits it is a tuning in the next step of course is to drop out to paraphrase an old saw life is wasted on the living gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
 URL microsoft tuesday said it has purchased a mountain view calif based security company to better secure its core file services including its windows platform and net initiative the redmond wash based software giant has acquired the assets of xdegrees for an undisclosed amount of cash and is in the process of relocating the team of NUMBER or NUMBER engineers to the microsoft campus xdegrees technology assigns urls to word files video clips and other digital documents for access across a peer to peer network xdegrees founder michael tanne was offered a job but decided instead to play his hand in the silicon valley xdegrees technology assigns urls to word files video clips and other digital documents for access across a peer to peer network assigns urls to word files and somebody bought that URL the xdegrees system allows users to easily and consistently locate access and manage information by assigning each document a unique link providing end to end security the xdegrees system unifies authentication of all users provides file level access control and encrypts all stored and transferred files seamless integration with existing applications such as email clients and microsoft office products allows companies to rapidly deploy the xdegrees system and users to get up and running quickly whoa high tech more bits here URL the essence of xdegrees consists of a naming system and a distributed database that allows peers to resolve resource names xdegrees manages these services for customers on its own hosts and sells its software to enterprises so they can define and run their own namespaces on in house servers you can search for a particular person whatever device the person is currently using for a particular device for a file or even for a web service the software that resolves resource names is called xrns the extensible resource name system ,0
i like this part sounds like httpd on the client URL once the client component is installed a server can order a program to run on the client any cgi script java servlet asp component etc could be run on the client this is like breaking the web server into two parts originally web servers just understood http and sent pages then the field started demanding more from the web and the servers got loaded down with cgi and mod_perl and active pages and stuff so now the web server can choose to go back to simple serving and where the application is appropriate let the client do the other razzamatazz this is superior to javascript in one important detail the program doesn t have to reload when a new page is loaded as javascript functions do and because xdegrees uses web compatible technology users can access xdegrees resources without installing any software simply by using their browser scaling is the main question that comes to mind when somebody describes a new naming and searching system ceo michael tanne claims to have figured out mathematically that the system can scale up to millions of users and billions of resources scaling is facilitated by the careful location of servers xdegrees will colocate servers at key routing points as akamai does and by directing clients to the nearest server as their default home server enterprise customers can use own servers to manage in house applications files can be cached on multiple systems randomly scattered around the internet as with napster or freenet in fact the caching in xdegrees is more sophisticated than it is on those systems users with high bandwidth connections can download portions or stripes of a file from several cached locations simultaneously the xdegrees software then reassembles these stripes into the whole file and uses digital signatures to verify that the downloaded file is the same as the original a key component of this digital signature is a digest of the file which is stored as an http header for the file ,0
mr fork writes files can be cached on multiple systems randomly scattered around the internet as with napster or freenet in fact the caching in xdegrees is more sophisticated than it is on those systems users with high bandwidth connections can download portions or stripes of a file from several cached locations simultaneously the xdegrees software then reassembles these stripes into the whole file and uses digital signatures to verify that the downloaded file is the same as the original a key component of this digital signature is a digest of the file which is stored as an http header for the file this more sophisticated than napster or freenet part seems to be the same behavior implemented in many other pNUMBERp cdns such as kazaa edonkey overnet bittorrent gnutella with huge extensions onionnetworks webraid though the quality of the digest used by each system varies wildly gordon ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER adam rifkin wrote i repeat ibm NUMBER NUMBERgb ultra dma NUMBER hard drive at fry s for NUMBER home of fast friendly courteous service r i kid you not that s a half a cent a megabyte for storage not el cheapo storage but top of the line storage less than two years later we have NUMBER gb for the same price URL maxtor driving capacity centric enterprise apps with super sized ata drives maxtor continues its leadership in the market it pioneered with a new category of high density ata drives milpitas calif september NUMBER NUMBER maxtor corporation nyse mxo a worldwide leader in hard disk drives and data storage solutions today announced maxtor maxlinetm its newest generation of ata drives designed specifically for rapidly emerging enterprise storage applications including near line media storage and network storage the maxline family features two critical differentiators huge capacities up to NUMBER gb for corporate archiving and media recording and unique manufacturing and quality for NUMBER NUMBER operations with mean time to failure mttf rates exceeding one million hours the maxline family is designed to bring hard disk drives into near line archive applications by adding a layer of maxline drives to archive architectures companies can instantly recover time critical data including executive e mail transaction data and accounting data that may need to be recovered on demand these new drives are designed to solve another enterprise problem with the storage of video media and audio conference call files even compressed these files take up tremendous amounts of high cost server space priced starting around NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER msrp maxtor s maxline family offers high capacity drives for enterprise applications at price points between traditional ata and scsi drives for system oems and white box builders maxline offers high density easy to integrate storage for use in entry level and mid size server environments the demand for instant recall of archived data is expanding as companies are meeting their obligations to quickly access executive e mails financial documents and transaction records said mike dooley senior director of marketing for the desktop products group at maxtor users may not need to access information in these applications on a daily basis but when they do need access it must be instant recent advances in ata technology and our manufacturing processes allow us to build upon our legacy of experience and provide our customers with a family of premium ata hard drives that can be integrated into a variety of systems for these enterprise applications the maxline family includes the NUMBER rpm maxline ii designed for capacities up to NUMBER gb and the NUMBER rpm maxline plus ii designed for capacities up to NUMBER gb at these capacities maxline offers higher storage density than many tape and optical solutions these drives have also been tested and are projected to meet enterprise reliability requirements already exceeded by prior drives employing the same robust maxtor designs which exceed mttf of over one million hours these drives will also carry a three year warranty the maxline ii and maxline plus ii feature the maxtor fast drivetm ultraata NUMBER interface for data transfer speeds up to NUMBER mb per second the maxline ii and maxline plus ii will be available with next generation serial ata interface for higher performance at NUMBER mb per second maximum data transfer rate serial ata improves hard drive performance to keep pace with the rapidly increasing performance requirements of data intensive environments and enterprise applications with a point to point connection architecture and rich command set for managing hard drive activity and data flow along the interface serial ata advances the performance and efficiency of the drive to system interface the interface s reduced pin count allows for simpler cabling which in turn allows better airflow within a system and further benefits the user with increased design flexibility and hot plug capability maxtor s maxline family of drives provide a solution for storing data that has previously been too expensive to keep on disk said dave reinsel analyst at idc the ata drives offer a great value low cost per gb and when integrated into storage systems and file servers offer a compelling cost effective alternative to tape libraries and optical drives which have been the traditional solutions used for near line applications availability limited qualification units of the parallel ata versions of maxtor maxline ii and maxline plus ii are now available with volume units available in the fourth quarter qualification units of the maxline ii and maxline plus ii with serial ata will be available later this month with volume shipments scheduled to begin in the first quarter of NUMBER about maxtor maxtor corporation URL is one of the world s leading suppliers of information storage solutions the company has an expansive line of storage products for desktop computers storage systems high performance servers and consumer electronics maxtor has a reputation as a proven market leader built by consistently providing high quality products and service and support for its customers maxtor and its products can be found at URL or by calling toll free NUMBER NUMBER maxtor maxtor is traded on the nyse under the mxo symbol note maxtor maxline and the maxtor logo are registered trademarks of maxtor corporation fast drive is a trademark of maxtor corporation all other trademarks are properties of their respective owners gb means NUMBER billion bytes total accessible capacity varies depending on operating environment this announcement relating to maxtor may contain forward looking statements concerning future technology products incorporating that technology and maxtor s execution these statements are based on current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties which could materially affect the company s results including but not limited to market demand for hard disk drives the company s ability to execute future production ramps and utilize manufacturing assets efficiently pricing competition and the significant uncertainty of market acceptance of new products these and other risk factors are contained in documents that the company files with the sec including the form NUMBER k for fiscal NUMBER and its recent NUMBER qs copyright NUMBER maxtor corporation privacy policy udhay shankar n udhay pobox com www digeratus com ,0
 u udhay shankar n udhay writes u at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER adam rifkin wrote i repeat ibm NUMBER NUMBERgb ultra dma NUMBER hard drive at fry s for NUMBER home of fast friendly courteous service r u less than two years later we have NUMBER gb for the same price so then why does my webhost _still_ only give me NUMBERmb gary lawrence murphy garym teledyn com teledynamics communications inc business advantage through community software URL computers are useless they can only give you answers pablo picasso ,0
september haiku freezing my ass off air conditioning on high heats small apartment cindy in mississippie p s this one s for you geege on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER paul chvostek wrote i can tell i m not the only one without air conditioning maybe i ll move to canmore sigh p on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER swerve wrote moo hahahaha i need a smoke stop this heatwave bring on winter bring on fall swerve shut up bye i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
xdegrees was at the webdav interoperability testing event last year so there may be some dav under the hood there someplace jim original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of gordon mohr sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re microsoft buys xdegress more of a pNUMBERp distributed data thing mr fork writes files can be cached on multiple systems randomly scattered around the internet as with napster or freenet in fact the caching in xdegrees is more sophisticated than it is on those systems users with high bandwidth connections can download portions or stripes of a file from several cached locations simultaneously the xdegrees software then reassembles these stripes into the whole file and uses digital signatures to verify that the downloaded file is the same as the original a key component of this digital signature is a digest of the file which is stored as an http header for the file this more sophisticated than napster or freenet part seems to be the same behavior implemented in many other pNUMBERp cdns such as kazaa edonkey overnet bittorrent gnutella with huge extensions onionnetworks webraid though the quality of the digest used by each system varies wildly gordon ,0
 URL september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER a m the wages of september NUMBER there is no going back september NUMBER changed our world those who deny such a watershed event take a superficially short term view and seem to think all is as before simply because the sun still rises and sets this is a colossal misjudgment the collapse of the towers the crashing into the pentagon and the murder of NUMBER NUMBER americans all seen live in real time by millions the world over tore off a scab and exposed deep wounds which if and when they heal will leave ugly scars for decades the killers dealt in icons the choice of NUMBER as the date of death targeting the manifest symbols of global capitalism and american military power and centering their destruction on the largest jewish city in the world yes they got their symbols in spades but they have no idea that their killing has instead become emblematic of changes that they could scarcely imagine islamic fundamentalism has proved not ascendant but static morally repugnant and the worst plague upon the arab world since the crusades by lurking in the shadows and killing incrementally through stealth the vampirish terrorists garnered bribes and subsidies through threats and bombs but pale and wrinkled in the daylight after NUMBER NUMBER they prove only ghoulish not fearsome the more the world knows of al qaeda and bin laden the more it has found them both vile and yet banal and so is confident and eager to eradicate them and all they stand for it is one thing to kill innocents quite another to take on the armed might of an aroused united states easily dodging a solo cruise missile in the vastness of afghanistan may make good theater and bring about braggadocio dealing with grim american and british commandos who have come NUMBER NUMBER miles for your head prompts abject flight and an occasional cheap infomercial on the run and the ultimate consequence of the attacks of september NUMBER will not merely be the destruction of al qaeda but also the complete repudiation of the taliban the iranian mullocracy the plague of the pakistani madrassas and any other would be fundamentalist paradise on earth foreign relations will not be the same in our generation our coalition with europe we learn was not a partnership but more mere alphabetic nomenclature and the mutual back scratching of euro american globetrotters a paper alliance without a mission nearly NUMBER years after the end of the cold war the truth is that europe out of noble purposes for a decade has insidiously eroded its collective national sovereignty in order to craft an antidemocratic eu a NUMBER NUMBER person fuzzy bureaucracy whose executive power is as militarily weak as it is morally ambiguous in its reliance on often dubious international accords this sad realization september NUMBER brutally exposed and we all should cry for the beloved continent that has for the moment completely lost its moral bearings indeed as the months progressed the problems inherent in the european way became all too apparent pretentious utopian manifestos in lieu of military resoluteness abstract moralizing to excuse dereliction of concrete ethical responsibility and constant american ankle biting even as europe lives in a make believe shire while we keep back the forces of mordor from its picturesque borders with only a few brave frodos and bilbos tagging along nothing has proved more sobering to americans than the skepticism of these blinkered european hobbits after september NUMBER america learned that moderate arab countries are as dangerous as hostile islamic nations after september NUMBER being a saudi egyptian or kuwaiti means nothing special to an american at least not proof of being any more friendly or hostile than having libyan syrian or lebanese citizenship indeed our entire postwar policy of propping up autocracies on the triad of their anticommunism oil and arms purchases like nato belongs to a pre NUMBER NUMBER age of soviet aggrandizement and petroleum monopolies now we learn that broadcasting state sponsored hatred of israel and the united states is just as deadly to our interests as scud missiles and as likely to come from friends as enemies worst case scenarios like iran and afghanistan offer more long term hope than stable regimes like the saudis governments that hate us have populations that like us and vice versa the saudi royal family whom NUMBER NUMBER american troops protect and the mubarak autocracy which has snagged billions of american dollars are as afraid of democratic reformers as they are islamic fundamentalists and with good reason islamic governments in iran and under the taliban were as hated by the masses as arab secular reformers in exile in the west are praised and championed the post NUMBER NUMBER domestic calculus is just as confusing generals and the military brass call civilians who seek the liberation of iraq chicken hawks and worse yet such traditional vietnam era invective i think rings hollow after september NUMBER and sounds more like mcclellan s shrillness against his civilian overseers who precipitously wanted an odious slavery ended than resonant of patton s audacity in charging after murderous nazis more americans were destroyed at work in a single day than all those soldiers killed in enemy action since the evacuation of vietnam nearly NUMBER years ago indeed most troops who went through the ghastly inferno of vietnam are now in or nearing retirement and thank god there is no generation of americans in the present military other than a few thousand brave veterans of the gulf mogadishu and panama who have been in sustained and deadly shooting with heavy casualties because american soldiers and their equipment are as impressive as our own domestic security is lax in this gruesome war it may well be more perilous to work high up in lower manhattan fly regularly on a jumbo jet or handle mail at the pentagon or cia than be at sea on a sub or destroyer real concern for the sanctity of life may hinge on employing rather than rejecting force inasmuch as our troops are as deadly and protected abroad as our women children aged and civilians are impotent and vulnerable at home it seems to me a more moral gamble to send hundreds of pilots into harm s way than allow a madman to further his plots to blow up or infect thousands in high rises politics have been turned upside down in the old days cynical conservatives were forced to hold their noses and to practice a sometimes repellent realpolitik in the age of russian expansionism they were loathe to champion democracy when it might usher in a socialist trojan horse whose belly harbored totalitarians disguised as parliamentarians thus they were so often at loggerheads with naïve and idealist leftists no longer the end of the specter of a deadly and aggressive soviet communism has revived democratic ideology as a force in diplomacy champions of freedom no longer sigh and back opportunistic rightist thugs who promise open economics loot their treasuries and keep out the russians instead even reactionaries are now more likely to push for democratic governments in the middle east than are dour and skeptical leftists the latter if multiculturalists often believe that democracy is a value neutral western construct not necessarily a universal good if pacifists they claim nonintervention not justice as their first priority the right not the left now is the greater proponent of global freedom liberation and idealism with obvious domestic ramifications for any republican president astute enough to tap that rich vein of popular support all this and more are the wages of the disaster of september NUMBER and the subsequent terrible year and yet it is likely that for good or evil we will see things even more incredible in the twelve months ahead ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER say amen somebody what the wsj said appended below the wtc as constructed was a confiscatory government boondoggle expropriated from the original pre construction property owners at the behest of a third generation trust fund aristocrat for the good of the city and owned by an authority looking for something else to do after it and its coach hounds in organized labor and organized crime had killed what was the largest port in the world s richest nation now of course it s about to get worse the sins of NUMBER years ago have been compounded at the hands of two kinds of literally irrational fanatics first those in religion and now those in government as a result a large part of NUMBER million square feet of once perfectly usable office space devoted at least ostensibly to commerce will be granted away in a potlatch that only government and special interest communities or stakeholders or whatever the cryptosocialist psycho rabble call themselves this week can organize to such perfection all this in probably the only city in the country that was founded by a business explicitly for the purpose of commerce not religious fanaticism not colonial expansion in a monarch s name commerce if they really wanted to make a point to the superstitious luddites who collapsed those buildings using probably the only sharp objects on a plane full of government disarmed passengers the so called authority should disband itself and sell its property off to the highest bidder and let the market the cure to all luddism foreign and domestic government and superstitious decide if the new private owner wants to sell or give away a space for a memorial fine they could sell tickets and donate the money to the families of the dead and injured probably great for marketing the property at least during the lifetime of anyone who remembers the event and of course if the new owner wants to build something twice as tall or with twice as much space than the original NUMBER million square feet splendid whatever the market will bear in these days of increasingly ubiquitous trans national geodesic internetworks of strong financial cryptography and of exponentially decreasing transaction costs in formerly monolithic industries economics and freedom can and will prevail over both superstition and statism it s probably too much to hope for an actual market in lower manhattan mega real estate to prevail this early in the game but it s going to happen sooner or later and whenever it does that will be a fitting memorial to those who died at the world trade center cheers rah URL the wall street journal september NUMBER NUMBER review outlook a living memorial as we write these words we can look down from our offices into the six story crater where the twin towers once stood like everyone else we want that site to be rebuilt in a way that honors those who died a year ago but we also think the best memorial to those who perished would be a living one the site of the world trade center calls forth many emotions especially today anger grief and respect for the many acts of heroism that took place there but underlying it all is the memory of the enormous vitality that distinguished the towers before they were attacked and was a large reason they were targeted the best expression of the spirit of new york and of those who died would be to once again see thousands of people from dozens of countries working meeting shopping eating that is engaged in the sort of productive work and play that used to take place there osama bin laden should not be allowed to have turned it into a cemetery but restoring this memory is not what the discussion in new york has been about so far no one is talking seriously about the vigorous rebuilding of downtown manhattan which lost NUMBER NUMBER jobs when the trade center fell instead the discussion centers on the size and scale of the memorial and on satisfying every political interest now clamoring for a piece of the action new york s political leadership and its financial and media elites are squandering a historic chance to rebuild a better more prosperous city this is in part the fault of the commission tasked with figuring out what to do with the site in consultation with new york governor george pataki who is thinking primarily about his own november re election the commission made the decision to focus first on the memorial the manhattan institute s steve malanga argues that the commission would have been better off setting aside a limited space for the memorial getting on with the rebuilding and then returning to the memorial this is in essence what the pentagon has so successfully done rebuild immediately and set aside two acres for an outdoor memorial a design for which has yet to be decided a big part of the problem in new york is that the city s anti development activists know an opening when they see one they want the world trade center site and even some surrounding areas transformed into an enormous park these political advocates have had plenty of practice at turning proposed development projects in new york into a nightmare of delay and litigation and the world trade center site is now getting the same treatment worse they are cynically using some bereaved family members to advance their own anti development agenda in the name of honoring the dead one family group even called a press conference to reject as disrespectful a proposed train line under the site we are not experts in designing war memorials but we re confident that a gigantic park in the heart of the world s financial center isn t the appropriate choice for those who died a year ago the great cities of europe and japan devastated in world war ii have all rebuilt and with memorials that are integrated into modern urban life perhaps the most powerful is found in rotterdam the dutch port city reduced to rubble by german bombing where survivors erected a statue of a man with a hole where his heart used to be in this country the practice has been for the names of war dead to be inscribed on the walls of institutions with which they were affiliated if you walk into nassau hall at princeton university you ll find the names of NUMBER alumni who died in the revolutionary war the war of NUMBER the civil war the spanish american war world war i world war ii korea and southeast asia no one thinks it disrespectful to the dead that the life of the university goes on around the walls containing their names in new york now it would help if political leaders looked beyond the emotional tug of the victims and their families to the city s future rudolph giuliani now that he s out office wants the entire NUMBER acres devoted to the memorial governor pataki has called for no structures on the footprints which being in the center of the site would severely curtail options mayor michael bloomberg initially raised his voice in favor of commercial development but was bloodied by the press and has since ducked for cover maybe things will be different after this anniversary is past maybe those responsible for the world trade center site will start thinking more about the next NUMBER or NUMBER years than the past NUMBER months the best way to honor the dead is by reviving normal life and commerce begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER iqa awubpxNUMBERzdNUMBERpxhNUMBERjfNUMBERohaeqiNUMBERaacgvNUMBERmtbNUMBERvktprjNUMBERmjqtNUMBERoyzyifzusanNUMBER fgnkontnaNUMBER smloNUMBERtbNUMBERxybcNUMBER NUMBERaz end pgp signature r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 URL dear garrison there are at least six plans about what to do with ground zero in new york i believe a suitable memorial surrounded by a lovely park with benches walkways children s playgrounds possibly some concessions such as a restaurant small theater and a place for art works would be the best tribute to those who lost their lives what do you think should done with the space joe adams hillsdale new jersey i dread the thought of a big memorial in manhattan that s designed by committee and that s gone through public hearings and so forth it s going to be cold and ugly and pretentious and the upshot will be one more public space that the public hates of which there are plenty already new york is a bustling commercial city and that s the beauty of it it s a city of young ambitious dreamy people like the folks who died in the towers and it s not a memorializing city historic events occurred in new york that in any other city would be commemorated with interpretive centers and guides and historical museums and in new york there s barely a little plaque that s a great thing in my estimation it s a hustling city full of immigrants looking for their big chance and compared to that spirit of entrepreneurship a memorial plaza with a fountain and a statue of something seems dead to me look at grant s tomb who walks past it and thinks about president grant nobody people sit in the plaza by grant s tomb and think about lunch about sex about money about all the things that new york is about if you want to find grant read his memoirs his monument seems odd in new york it belongs in washington which is our memorial city new york is for the young and lively ,0
on NUMBER sep NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote so then why does my webhost _still_ only give me NUMBERmb because NUMBER krpm server scsii doesn t follow the curve most rackspace is ridiculously expensive unit so people don t use low end eide hardware there ,0
 hanson is always good one of my sci fi authors is planning on slipping the following line into one of their stories the worst strategic mistake since the NUMBER attacks original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of bill stoddard sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject hanson s sept NUMBER message in the national review URL ,0
i though this was all rather interesting first bit of NUMBER NUMBER coverage that i ve liked URL chris ,0
 is this old bits it should be i was browsing the local zine store here in portland or and found the second issue of the thresher very very sweet poltical socio articles on all manner of things from names you have come to love despise over the years if you have not already tombobjoewhore says check it out URL ,0
 gays gay sex gay marriage wooohooo its been a mano e mano week and thursady will be the mass market consumer period on it the wwe s gay marriage cermemony is in the can that is its been filmed last night for thursady nights smackdown did they do it tastefully oh come on its the wwe for cripssake of course they didnt did they use it ot promote an story line despite the wwe throwing away more good story lines in the last NUMBER years than a wood chuck who could chuck wood if the enviromentalists did not slap lawsuits on them the sotrywrites seemed to have finaly hit on a big tie togther event for several story lines but of course no one here watches the wwe and not even because you would rather watch old divxs of the ecw so this little bit is probably fallign on the old killsawfiles so i wont be bursting anyones thursdaynight plans if i smarkout and say that b and c waver near the final vows the blame is falling on ricco thier manager for pushing them to carry out their gay act far too long and just when things look to be heating up with that story arc the mask comes off the justice of the piece as he pronounces that they have gone NUMBER minutes yes NUMBER minutes too long yep its the bisch and in come rosey and jamal to attempt a stomping on stpehnie mcmahon hopefully they did not get off a kick like they did on the first lesbain back on mondays raw as that broke a rib of course the editing truck boys might change some none or all of this around so if thursday nights tape play reveals them hitch and on thier way to a honeymoon thats the luck o the smarkies i doubt it will be edited much though from the way i heard it so the bottomline is they really were not gay all along they were play acting and it got out of hand because ricco made them steaphnie gets a face push while the bisch gets a thursady night special NUMBER min heel push thus furthing the story arc of the brand split rosey and jamala get heat and b and c get a new tag team to play with ricco who knows maybe some heat time would be good for him as a single all this of course at a time when the ratting are in the bottom of a NUMBER year valley of gloom the last NUMBER years have been mostly squandered on borken story arc promises and bad acting and to top it all off mick is no longer ont he sceen so bang bang how can it be all good well its back to my growing ecw divx collection where tajiri was the shiz and mick cut promos unrivaled by any of todays mic monkeys todays managers are a far cry form the managers of the NUMBER s early NUMBER s ricco is nota paul bearer or a jimmy heart at all but more like a buddy who goes to the ring with them and occasional interferes ugh ,0
 URL miami sept NUMBER a two gram rock of crack cocaine was found inside the shoe of florida gov jeb bush s NUMBER year old daughter by workers at the central florida rehabilitation center where she is undergoing court ordered drug treatment orlando police said today noelle bush was not arrested because witnesses would not give sworn statements but the incident is under investigation according to orlando police spokesman orlando rolon wow the witnesses would not nark of a bush girl in an era where there are no mare restrictions on being held without a cause imagine that tom ,0
yeshterday we f cked up our gubernatorial election too results to be contested by reno same six districts that were sued in NUMBER still came up gimpy i suggested to jeb via e mail we hold a run off pinata party hoist up a papier mache donkey and a papier mache elephant first one to batted open wins original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of tom sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject bush blew take two URL miami sept NUMBER a two gram rock of crack cocaine was found inside the shoe of florida gov jeb bush s NUMBER year old daughter by workers at the central florida rehabilitation center where she is undergoing court ordered drug treatment orlando police said today noelle bush was not arrested because witnesses would not give sworn statements but the incident is under investigation according to orlando police spokesman orlando rolon wow the witnesses would not nark of a bush girl in an era where there are no mare restrictions on being held without a cause imagine that tom ,0
meant gubernatorial primary original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of geege schuman sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to tom fork URL subject re bush blew take two yeshterday we f cked up our gubernatorial election too results to be contested by reno same six districts that were sued in NUMBER still came up gimpy i suggested to jeb via e mail we hold a run off pinata party hoist up a papier mache donkey and a papier mache elephant first one to batted open wins original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of tom sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject bush blew take two URL miami sept NUMBER a two gram rock of crack cocaine was found inside the shoe of florida gov jeb bush s NUMBER year old daughter by workers at the central florida rehabilitation center where she is undergoing court ordered drug treatment orlando police said today noelle bush was not arrested because witnesses would not give sworn statements but the incident is under investigation according to orlando police spokesman orlando rolon wow the witnesses would not nark of a bush girl in an era where there are no mare restrictions on being held without a cause imagine that tom ,0
 interesting ebay item and no it wasnt me even though the spellingis oddly familar URL ,0
 NUMBER minutes ii bush interview cbs no president since abraham lincoln has seen such horrific loss of life in a war on american soil no president since james madison nearly NUMBER years ago has seen the nation s capital city successfully attacked but one year ago president george w bush was thrown into the first great crisis of the NUMBERst century this is the president s story of september NUMBERth and the week america went to war NUMBER minutes ii spent two hours with mr bush one on air force one and another in the oval office last week even after a year the president is still moved sometimes to the point of tears when he remembers sept NUMBER i knew the farther we get away from sept NUMBER the more likely it is for some around the world to forget the mission but not me mr bush says during the air force one interview not me i made the pledge to myself and to people that i m not going to forget what happened on sept NUMBER so long as i m president we will pursue the killers and bring them to justice we owe that to those who have lost their lives the memories come back sharp and clear on air force one where pelley joined the president for a recent trip across country NUMBER minutes ii wanted to talk to him there because that is where he spent the first hours after the attack not since lyndon johnson was sworn in on air force one has the airplane been so central to america in a crisis for president bush sept NUMBER NUMBER started with the usual routine before dawn the president was on his four mile run it was just before NUMBER a m and at the same moment another man was on the move mohammad atta two hours later as mr bush drove to an elementary school hijackers on four planes were murdering the flight crews and turning the airliners east as the motorcade neared the school at NUMBER NUMBER a m jet engines echoed in manhattan atta plunged the NUMBER jumbo jet into world trade center tower one i thought it was an accident says mr bush i thought it was a pilot error i thought that some foolish soul had gotten lost and and made a terrible mistake mr bush was told about the first plane just before sitting down with a class of second graders he was watching a reading drill when just after nine united flight NUMBER exploded into the second tower there was the sudden realization that what had seemed like a terrible mistake was a coordinated attack back in the florida classroom press secretary ari fleischer got the news on his pager the president s chief of staff andy card stepped in a second plane hit the second tower america is under attack card told the president when he said those words what did he see in the president s face i saw him coming to recognition of what i had said card recalls i think he understood that he was going to have to take command as commander in chief not just as president what was going through bush s mind when he heard the news we re at war and somebody has dared attack us and we re going to do something about it mr bush recalls i realized i was in a unique setting to receive a message that somebody attacked us and i was looking at these little children and all of the sudden we were at war i can remember noticing the press pool and the press corps beginning to get the calls and seeing the look on their face and it became evident that we were you know that the world had changed mr bush walked into a classroom set up with a secure phone he called the vice president pulling the phone cord tight as he spun to see the attack on tv then he grabbed a legal pad and quickly wrote his first words to the nation ladies and gentlemen this is a difficult moment for america he said in the speech today we ve had a national tragedy it was NUMBER NUMBER a m as he spoke mr bush didn t know that two more hijacked jets were streaking toward washington vice pesident dick cheney was in his office at the white house when a secret service agent ran in he said to me sir we have to leave immediately and grabbed put a hand on my belt another hand on my shoulder and propelled me out the door of my office cheney recalls i m not sure how they do it but they sort of levitate you down the hallway you move very fast there wasn t a lot of time for chitchat you know with the vice president says secret service director brian stafford who was in his command center ordering the round up of top officials and the first family he felt that he had only minutes to work with we knew there were unidentified planes tracking in our direction he says cheney was rushed deep under the white house into a bunker called the presidential emergency operations center it was built for war and this was it on her way down national security advisor condoleezza rice called mr bush it was brief because i was being pushed to get off the phone and get out of the west wing says rice they were hurrying me off the phone with the president and i just said he said i m coming back and we said mr president that may not be wise i remember stopping briefly to call my family my aunt and uncle in alabama and say i m fine you have to tell everybody that i m fine but then settling into trying to deal with the enormity of that moment and in the first few hours i think the thing that was on everybody s mind was how many more planes are coming the capitol was evacuated and for the first time ever the secret service executed the emergency plan to ensure the presidential line of succession agents swept up the NUMBER officials who stood to become president if the others were killed they wanted to move vice president cheney fearing he was in danger even in the bunker but cheney says when he heard the other officials were safe he decided to stay at the white house no matter what it s important to emphasize it s not personal you don t think of it in personal terms you ve got a professional job to do says cheney cheney was joined by transportation secretary norm mineta who remembers hearing the faa counting down the hijacked jets closing in on the capital says mineta someone came in and said mr vice president there s a plane NUMBER miles out then he came in and said its now NUMBER miles out we don t know where it is exactly but it s coming in low and fast it was american flight NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER a m it exploded into the pentagon the first successful attack on washington since the war of NUMBER as the pentagon burned mr bush s limousine sped toward air force one in florida at that moment united flight NUMBER the last hijacked plane was taking dead aim at washington at the white house the staff was in the west wing cafeteria watching on tv press secretary jennifer millerwise was in the crowd when the order came to evacuate i no sooner walked outside when someone from the secret service yelled women drop your heels and run drop your heels and run and suddenly the gates that never open except for authorized vehicles just opened and the whole white house just flooded out she recalls in florida as mr bush boarded air force one he was overheard telling a secret service agent be sure to get the first lady and my daughters protected at NUMBER NUMBER a m air force one thundered down the runway blasting smoke and dust in a full hrust take off communications director dan bartlett was on board it was like a rocket he remembers for a good ten minutes the plane was going almost straight up at the same moment NUMBER minutes after it was hit world trade center tower two began to falter then cascade in an incomprehensible avalanche of steel concrete and human lives someone said to me look at that i remember that look at that and i looked up and i saw and i just remember a cloud of dust and smoke and the horror of that moment recalls rice of the tv newscast she also felt something in her gut that we ve lost a lot of americans and that eventually we would get these people i felt the anger of course i felt the anger down in the bunker cheney was trying to figure out how many hijacked planes there were officials feared there could be as many as NUMBER as the planes track toward washington a discussion begins about whether to shoot them down i discussed it with the president cheney recalls are we prepared to order our aircraft to shoot down these airliners that have been hijacked he said yes it was my advice it was his decision says cheney that s a sobering moment to order your own combat aircraft to shoot down your own civilian aircraft says bush but it was an easy decision to make given the given the fact that we had learned that a commercial aircraft was being used as a weapon i say easy decision it was i didn t hesitate let me put it that way i knew what had to be done the passengers on united flight NUMBER also knew what had to be done they fought for control and sacrificed themselves in a pennsylvania meadow the flight was NUMBER minutes from washington clearly the terrorists were trying to take out as many symbols of government as they could the pentagon perhaps the capitol perhaps the white house these people saved us not only physically but they saved us psychologically and symbolically in a very important way too says rice meanwhile tower one was weakening it had stood for an hour and NUMBER minutes at NUMBER NUMBER a m it buckled in a mirror image of the collapse of its twin the image that went round the world reached the first lady in a secure location somewhere in washington i was horrified she says i thought dear god protect as many citizens as you can it was a nightmare by NUMBER NUMBER a m america s largest city was devastated its military headquarters were burning air force one turned west along the gulf coast i can remember sitting right here in this office thinking about the consequences of what had taken place and realizing it was the defining moment in the history of the united states says president bush i didn t need any legal briefs i didn t need any consultations i knew we were at war mr bush says the first hours were frustrating he watched the horrifying pictures but the tv signal was breaking up his calls to cheney were cutting out mr bush says he pounded his desk shouting this is inexcusable get me the vice president i was trying to clear the fog of war and there is a fog of war says the president information was just flying from all directions chief of staff card brought in the reports there was word camp david had been hit a jet was thought to be targeting mr bush s ranch i remember hearing that the state department might have been hit or that the white house had a fire in it so we were hearing lots of different information says card they also feared that air force one itself was a target cheney told the president there was a credible threat against the plane using the code name for air force one mr bush told an aide angel is next the threat was passed to presidential pilot colonel mark tillman it was serious before that but now it is no longer is it a time to get the president home tillman says we actually have to consider everything we say everything we do could be intercepted and we have to make sure that no one knows what our position is tillman asked for an armed guard at his cockpit door while secret service agents double checked the identity of everyone on board the crew reviewed the emergency evacuation plan then came a warning from air traffic control a suspect airliner was dead ahead coming out of sarasota there was one call that said there was an airliner off our nose that they did not have contact with tillman remembers tillman took evasive action pulling his plane high above normal traffic they were on course for washington but by now no one thought that was a good idea except the president i wanted to come back to washington but the circumstances were such that it was just impossible for the secret service or the national security team to clear the way for air force one to come back says bush so air force one set course for an underground command center in nebraska back in washington the president s closest advisor karen hughes heard about the threat to the plane and placed a call to mr bush and the military operator came back to me and in a voice that to me sounded very shaken said ma am i m sorry we can t reach air force one hughes recalls hughes was out of the white house during the attacks when she came back it was a place she didn t recognize there were either military or maybe secret service dressed all in black holding machine guns as as we drove up and i never expected to see something like that in in our nation s capital says hughes when she walked into the white house no one was inside i knew it was a day that you didn t want to surprise anybody and so i yelled hello and two again kind of swat team members came running running through the the hall with again guns drawn and then took me to to the location where i met the vice president on air force one col tillman had a problem he needed to hide the most visible plane in the world a NUMBER longer than the white house itself he didn t want to use his radio because the hijackers could be listening to air traffic control so he called air traffic control on the telephone we actually didn t tell them our destination or what directions we were heading says tillman we we basically just talked to em and said ok fine we have no clearance at this time we are just going to fly across the united states controllers passed air force one from one sector to another warning each other to keep the route secret ok where s he going one tower radioed to another just watch him a second tower responded don t question him where s he s going just work him and watch him there s no flight plan in and we re not going to put anything in ok sir air force one ordered a fighter escort and air traffic control radioed back air force one got two f NUMBERs at about your NUMBER o clock position the staff and the president and us were filed out along the outside hallway of his presidential cabin there and looking out the windows says bartlett and the president gives them a signal of salute and the pilot kind of tips his wing and fades off and backs into formation the men in the f NUMBERs were shane brotherton and randy roberts from the texas air national guard their mission was so secret their commander wouldn t tell them where they were going he just said you ll know when you see it and that was my first clue i didn t have any idea what we were going up until that point says brotherton he knew when he saw it we we were trying to keep an NUMBER mile bubble bubble around air force one and we d investigate anything that was within NUMBER miles says roberts bush says he was not worried about the safety of the people on this aircraft or for his own safety i looked out the airplane and saw two f NUMBERs on each wing it was going to have to be a pretty good pilot to get us we now know that the threat to air force one was part of the fog of war a false alarm but it had a powerful effect at the time some wondered with the president out of sight was he still running the government he hadn t appeared after the attack on washington mr bush was clearly worried about it at one point he was overheard saying the american people want to know where their dang president is the staff considered an address to the nation by phone but instead mr bush ordered air force one to land somewhere within NUMBER minutes so he could appear on tv at NUMBER NUMBER a m they landed at barksdale air force base in louisiana the resolve of our great nation is being tested but make no mistake we will show the world that we will pass this test god bless bush said to the nation from barksdale at barksdale the secret service believed the situation in washington was still unsafe so the plane continued on to nebraska to the command center where mr bush would be secure and have all the communications gear he needed to run the government aboard air force one mr bush had a job for press secretary fleischer the president asked me to make sure that i took down everything that was said i think he wanted to make certain that a record existed says fleischer fleischer s notes capture mr bush s language plain and unguarded to the vice president he said we re at war dick we re going to find out who did this and kick their ass another time mr bush said we re not going to have any slap on the wrist crap this time the president adds i can remember telling the secretary of defense i said we re going to find out who did this and then mr secretary you and dick myers who we just named as chairman of the joint chiefs are going to go get them by NUMBER p m air force one touched down at offutt air force base in nebraska mr bush and his team were herded into a small brick hut that gave no hint of what they would find below at the bottom of the stairs was the u s strategic command underground command center it was built to transmit a president s order to go to nuclear war but when mr bush walked in the battle staff was watching the skies over the united states many airplanes had still not landed after a short briefing mr bush and card were taken to a teleconference center which connected them to the white house the pentagon the fbi and the cia mr bush had a question for his cia director george tenent according to rice bush asked tenent who had done this rice recalls that tenent answered sir i believe its al qaeda we re doing the assessment but it looks like it feels like it smells like al qaeda the evidence would build fbi director robert mueller says that an essential clue came from one of the hijacked planes before it crashed a flight attendant on american flight NUMBER amy sweeney had the presence of mind to call her office as the plane was hijacked and give them the seat numbers of the hijackers that was the first piece of hard evidence we could then go to the manifest find out who was sitting in those seats and immediately conduct an investigation of those individuals as opposed to taking all the passengers on the plane and going through a process of elimination says mueller in nebraska the white house staff was preparing for an address to the nation from the air force bunker but by then the president had had enough he decided to come back at one point he said he didn t want any tinhorn terrorist keeping him out of washington fleischer says that verbatim on board he was already thinking of issuing an ultimatum to the world i had time to think and a couple of thoughts emerged one was that you re guilty if you harbor a terrorist because i knew these terrorists like al qaeda liked to prey on weak government and weak people the other thought that came was the opportunity to fashion a vast coalition of countries that would either be with us or with the terrorists as air force one sped east the last casualty of the attack on america collapsed one of the nation s worst days wore into evening at the world trade center NUMBER NUMBER were killed at the pentagon NUMBER and in pennsylvania NUMBER altogether there were NUMBER NUMBER dead anybody who would attack america the way they did anybody who would take innocent life the way they did anybody who s so devious is evil bush said recently mr bush would soon see that evil face to face after arriving in washington he boarded his helicopter and flew past the pentagon on the way to the white house was there a time when he was afraid that there might not be a white house to return to i don t remember thinking about whether or not the white house would have been obliterated he recalls i think i might have thought they took their best shot and now it was time for us to take our best shot mr bush arrived back at the white house nine hours after the attacks his next step was an address to the nation karen hughes and her staff were already working on the speech he decided that the primary tone he wanted to strike that night was reassurance remembers hughes we had to show resolve we had to reassure people we had to let them know that we would be ok just off the oval office mr bush added the words that would become known as the bush doctrine no distinction between terrorists and those who harbor them the staff wanted to add a declaration of war but mr bush didn t think the american people wanted to hear it that night and he was emphatic about that he prepared to say it from the same desk where franklin roosevelt first heard the news of pearl harbor now bush was commander in chief eighty million americans were watching today our fellow citizens our way of life our very freedom came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts he said from the oval office that night the oval office speech came at the end of the bloodiest day in american history since the civil war before he walked to the white house residence for the night mr bush dictated these words for the white house daily log the pearl harbor of the NUMBERst century took place today we think it s osama bin laden cbs when sept NUMBER dawned president bush was demanding a war plan no one in the white house or the pentagon could be sure of what the president would do in office for just eight months he d never been tested as commander in chief i never asked them what they thought president bush said of the pentagon brass because i didn t really because i knew what i was gonna do i knew exactly what had to be done scott and that was to set a strategy to seek justice find out who did it hunt them down and bring them to justice in the cabinet room the president made clear what was next the deliberate and deadly attacks which were carried out yesterday against our country were more than acts of terror they were acts of war he said to the war cabinet al qaeda was no surprise national security advisor condoleezza rice says the administration had been at work on a plan to strike bin laden s organization well before sept NUMBER the president said you know i m tired of swatting at flies i need a strategy to eliminate these guys rice recalls in one of the worst intelligence failures ever the cia and fbi didn t pick up clues that an attack in the united states was imminent without a sense of urgency the white house strategy the president had asked for came too late chief of staff andrew card recalls that the plan mr bush had asked for was literally headed to the president s desk i think on the eleventh tenth or eleventh of september on sept NUMBER the war cabinet was debating the full range of options who to hit and how to hit them there were some at the pentagon who worried in the early hours that mr bush would order up an immediate cruise missile strike of the kind that had not deterred bin laden in the past well there s a lot of nervous nellies at the pentagon anyway mr bush tells pelley a lot of people like to chatter you know more than they should but no i appreciate that very much secretary of defense donald rumsfeld early on discussed the idea of making sure we had what we called boots on the ground that if you re gonna go to war then you ve gotta go to war with all your assets the president says he wanted to fight and win a guerilla war with conventional means it was an innovative but risky idea being proposed by cia director george tenent tenent wanted to combine american technology and intelligence with the brute force of afghan fighters hostile to the taliban government secretary of state colin powell noting that the cia had already developed a long relationship with the afghan resistance called it an unconventional solution to an unconventional problem as i like to describe it to my friends powell says we had on the ground a fourth world army riding horses and living in tents with some cia and special forces with them and we had a first world air force the best in the world how do you connect it all the president gave them NUMBER hours to figure it out meanwhile mr bush went to the battlefield himself just the day before he had called the pentagon the mightiest building in the world now one fifth of it was in ruins the wreckage of american flight NUMBER was being examined by navy investigators and before mr bush left he made a point of speaking personally with the team recovering the remains of the first casualties of war on his watch the next day sept NUMBER there was another warning of attack that the public never heard about threats had been were coming in constantly but this one sounded credible a large truck bomb headed to the white house the secret service wanted the president back in the bunker he wasn t real receptive to that to that recommendation remembers brian stafford director of the secret service and he ordered a hamburger and said he was going to stay in the white house that evening and that s what he did the next day would be one of the longest and the most difficult for the president on friday sept NUMBER mr bush started the day with a cabinet meeting but he wept when he walked in and was surprised by applause he sat down slightly overcome for a moment but he recaptured it says powell who remembers being worried that the president might have trouble getting through his speech at the national memorial service later that morning and i just scribbled a little note to him powell recalls and i said mr president i ve learned over the years when you are going to give a very emotional speech watch out for certain words that will cause you to start to tear up he looked at me and he smiled and then at the next break in the conversation he said the secretary of state told me not to break down at the memorial service and that broke the tension and everybody started laughing and i felt embarrassed first lady laura bush was involved in planning the memorial service and she says she wanted it to be both dignified and comforting i wanted the psalms and everything to be read to be comforting because i think we were a country that needed everyone of us needed comforting it also stirred the mourners resolve as rice remember as we stood to sing the battle hymn of the republic she says you could feel the entire congregation and i could certainly feel myself stiffen the kind of spine and this deep sadness was being replaced by resolve we all felt that we still had mourning to do for our countrymen who had been lost but that we also had a new purpose in not just avenging what had happened to them but making certain that the world was eventually going to be safe from this kind of attack ever again next came a visit to ground zero the president was not prepared for what he encountered there you couldn t brief me you couldn t brief anybody on ground zero until you saw it mr bush says it was like it was ghostly like you re having a bad dream and you re walking through the dream the president found the scene very powerful particularly when the men and women at ground zero began to chant usa usa there was a lot of bloodlust the president recalls people were you know pointing their big old hands at me saying don t you ever forget this mr president don t let us down the scene was very powerful very powerful when mr bush tried to speak the crowd kept shouting we can t hear you the president responded i can hear you i can hear you the rest of the world hears you and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon mr bush had been in new york just a few weeks before he d posed with the firemen who always stood by whenever the president s helicopter landed there now five of the men who stood with the president in the picture were dead lost at ground zero when the president arrived sept NUMBER manhattan was papered with the faces of the lost families unable to believe that so many had vanished in an instant held onto the hope that their loved ones were just missing it was a place where a child comforted a grieving mother at a meeting the public never saw the president spoke with several hundred of these families in a convention hall people said to me he ll come out don t worry mr president we ll see him soon i know my loved one he will he ll find a place to survive underneath the rubble and we ll get him out i on the other hand had been briefed about the realities and my job was to hug and cry but i remember the whole time thinking this is incredibly sad because the loved ones won t come out one little boy handed the president a picture of his father in his firefighter uniform and as he signed it mr bush remembers he told the boy your daddy won t believe that i was here so you show him that autograph it was an effort to provide a little hope the president recalls i still get emotional thinking about it because we re dealing with people who loved their dads or loved their mom or loved their wives who loved their husbands it was a tough time you know it was a tough time for all of us because we were a very emotional and i was emotional at times i felt i felt the same now as i did then which is sad and i still feel sad for those who grieve for their families but through my tears i see opportunity the president was supposed to be with the families for about NUMBER minutes he stayed for two and a half hours it was there he met arlene howard the body of her son george was among the first to be found at ground zero i called the police department howard remembers and they said he hadn t called in for roll call and to call back in an hour and i said no i don t need to call back if he hadn t called in i knew where he was george howard had rescued children trapped in an elevator back in NUMBER when the world trade center was bombed he had been off duty that day and he was off duty on sept NUMBER but couldn t stay away the police department gave his badge to his mother and she gave it to the president he the president he leaned over to talk to me howard recalls and he extends his sympathy to me and that s when i asked him i d like to present george s shield to him in honor of all the men and women who were killed over there by the end of that day mr bush flew to camp david visibly drained he was physically exhausted he was mentally exhausted he was emotionally exhausted he was spiritually exhausted recalls card the next day saturday sept NUMBER mr bush met members of his war cabinet at the presidential retreat for a last decisive meeting my message is for everybody who wears the uniform get ready the united states will do what it takes mr bush told them as powell remembers it he was encouraging us to think boldly he was listening to all ideas he was not constrained to any one idea he wanted to hear his advisors talk and argue and debate with each other president bush was pleased with the progress that had been made on the other hand he says i wanted to clarify plans and i went around the room and i asked everybody what they thought ought to happen when he left that meeting on saturday night he still had not told the cabinet what he was planning i wanted to just think it through mr bush remembers any time you commit troops to harm s way a president must make sure that he fully understands all the consequences and ramifications and i wanted to just spend some time on it alone and did what were his reservations mr bush says could we win i didn t want to be putting our troops in there unless i was certain we could win and i was certain we could win nine days after the attacks on america before a joint session of congress the president committed the nation to the war on terror each of us will remember what happened that day and to whom it happened mr bush told the congress and the nation we ll remember the moment the news came where we were and what we were doing some will remember an image of a fire or a story of rescue some will carry memories of a face and a voice gone forever and i will carry this it is the police shield of a man named george howard who died at the world trade center trying to save others it was given to me by his mom arlene as a proud memorial to her son it is my reminder of lives that ended and a task that does not end a year has passed since then but the president says his job is still to remind americans of what happened and of the war that is still being waged a war he reminds himself of every day in the oval office literally keeping score one terrorist at a time in his desk the president says i have a classified document that might have some pictures on there just to keep reminding me about who s out there where they might be and as the terrorists are captures or killed i might make a little check there yeah mr bush admits but there is no check by the name that must be on the top of that list osama bin laden cbs a lot has happened in the year since sept NUMBER one year ago the president was new on the job with little experience in foreign policy he had wanted to pull the military back from foreign entanglements now on his orders u s forces are engaged around the globe in a war he did not expect in a world completely changed in the oval office last week cbs news correspondent scott pelley asked the president about iraq about whether americans are safe at home and about osama bin laden scott pelley you must be frustrated maybe angry after a year we still don t have osama bin laden president bush how do you know that i don t know whether osama bin laden is dead or alive i don t know that he s not leading a lot of parades and he s not nearly the hero that a lot of people thought he was this is much bigger than one person anyway this is we re slowly but surely dismantling and disrupting the al qaeda network that that hates america and we will stay on task until we complete the task i always knew this was a different kind of war scott see in the old days you measure the size and the strength of the enemy by counting his tanks or his airplanes and his ships this is an international manhunt we re after these people one at the time they re killers period pelley but have you won the war before you find osama bin laden dead or alive mr bush if he were dead there s somebody else to replace him and we would find that person but slowly but surely we will dismantle the al qaeda network and those who sponsor them and those who harbor them and at the same time hopefully lay the seeds for the conditions necessary so that people don t feel like they ve got to conduct terror to achieve objectives pelley do you look back on the afghan campaign with any doubts certainly we ve overthrown the taliban government certainly al qaeda has been scattered but some of the taliban leaders appear to have gotten away and there have been many civilian casualties as well mr bush uh huh well you know i am sad that civilians lost their life but i understand war we did everything we can to everything we could to protect people when civilians did die it was because of a mistake certainly not because of intention we liberated a country for which i m extremely proud no i don t second guess things it s things never go perfect in a time of war pelley are you committed to ending the rule of saddam hussein mr bush i m committed to regime change pelley there are those who have been vocal in their advice against war in iraq some of our allies in the gulf war saudi arabia turkey for example even your father s former national security advisor mr scowcroft has written about it in the paper what is it in your estimation that they don t understand about the iraq question that you do appreciate mr bush the policy of the government is regime change scott hasn t changed i get all kinds of advice i m listening to the advice i appreciate the consultations and we ll consult with a lot of people but our policy hasn t changed pelley on air force one you described the terrorists as evil mr bush yeah pelley i don t think anyone would disagree with that but at the same time many in the arab world are angry at the united states for political reasons because of our policy in israel or our troops in the oil region of the middle east is there any change in foreign policy that you re considering that might reduce arab anger against the united states mr bush hmm well i m working for peace in the middle east i m the first president that ever went to the united nations and publicly declared the need to have a palestinian state living side by side with israel in peace i ve made it clear that in order for there to be peace the palestinians have gotta to get some leadership that renounces terror and believes in peaces and quits using the palestinian people as pawns i ve also made it clear to the other arab nations in the region that they ve got responsibilities if you want peace they gotta work toward it we re more than willing to work for it but they have to work for it as well but all this business isn t going to happen as long as a few are willing to blow up the hopes of many so we all gotta work to fight off terror pelley arafat has to go mr bush either he s he s been a complete failure as far as i am concerned utter disappointment pelley there has been some concern over the year about civil liberties mr bush yeah pelley in fact an appeals court recently was harsh about your administration s decision to close certain deportation hearings they said quote a government operating in secrecy stands in opposition to the constitution where do you draw the line sir mr bush i draw the line at the constitution we will protect america but we will do so on within the guidelines of the constitution confines of the constitution spirit of the constitution pelley is there anything that the justice department has brought to you as an idea that you ve thought no that s too far i don t wanna go mr bush nah not that that i remember and i am pleased with the justice department i think that attorney general s doing a fine job by the way and to the extent that our courts are willing to make sure that they review decisions we make i think that s fine i mean that s good it s healthy it s part of america pelley franklin roosevelt said that america should stand in defense of four freedoms freedom of speech freedom of religion freedom from want and freedom from fear do we have that today mr president freedom from fear mr bush i think more than we did in retrospect the fact that we are on alert the fact that we understand the new circumstances makes us more free from fear than on that fateful day of september the NUMBERth we ve got more work to do pelley and americans should not live their lives in fear mr bush i don t think so no i think americans oughta know their government s doing everything possible to help and obviously if we get information that relates directly a particular attack we ll deal with it and if we get noise that deals with a general attack we ll alert people there are a lot of good folks working hard to disrupt and deny and run down leads and the american people need to go about their lives it seems like they are ,0
 and no it wasnt me even though the spellingis oddly familar not that this is news to forks but URL randomising letters in the middle of words has little or no effect on the ability of skilled readers to understand the text this is easy to denmtrasote in a pubiltacion of new scnieitst you could ramdinose all the letetrs keipeng the first two and last two the same and reibadailty would hadrly be aftcfeed my ansaylis did not come to much beucase the thoery at the time was for shape and senqeuce retigcionon saberi s work sugsegts we may have some pofrweul palrlael prsooscers at work the resaon for this is suerly that idnetiyfing coentnt by paarllel prseocsing speeds up regnicoiton we only need the first and last two letetrs to spot chganes in meniang dave ,0
dave long writes and no it wasnt me even though the spellingis oddly familar not that this is news to forks but URL randomising letters in the middle of words has little or no effect on the ability of skilled readers to understand the text this is easy to denmtrasote in a pubiltacion of new scnieitst you could ramdinose all the letetrs keipeng the first two and last two the same and reibadailty would hadrly be aftcfeed my ansaylis did not come to much beucase the thoery at the time was for shape and senqeuce retigcionon saberi s work sugsegts we may have some pofrweul palrlael prsooscers at work the resaon for this is suerly that idnetiyfing coentnt by paarllel prseocsing speeds up regnicoiton we only need the first and last two letetrs to spot chganes in meniang hmm there s probably a patentable input method for touch tone keypads in there somewhere gordon ,0
on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER dave long wrote URL randomising letters in the middle of words has little or no effect on the ability of skilled readers to understand the text this is easy to denmtrasote in a pubiltacion of new scnieitst you could ramdinose all the letetrs keipeng the first two and last two the same and reibadailty would hadrly be aftcfeed my ansaylis did not come to much beucase the thoery at the time was for shape and senqeuce retigcionon saberi s work sugsegts we may have some pofrweul palrlael prsooscers at work the resaon for this is suerly that idnetiyfing coentnt by paarllel prseocsing speeds up regnicoiton we only need the first and last two letetrs to spot chganes in meniang i m working with an experimental text recognition processing engine that exhibits similar characteristics it can read right through misspellings like the above without any difficulty and as the author above suggested the pattern matching is inherently parallel internally if the text recognition algorithm architecture humans use is anything like the algorithm structure we ve been working with the reason the first letter and to a lesser extent the last letter is important is that without it the text pattern recognition problem is exponentially more difficult from a theoretical standpoint anyway and has to be resolved using deeper abstraction analysis the middle letters are far less important and computationally much easier to resolve correctly cheers james rogers jamesr URL ,0
 so much for carnivore gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
on NUMBER sep NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote so much for carnivore yep that ws the plan all alng with my typos i am the only one to be consistently fighting the evls of da vore ,0
on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER tom wrote yep that ws the plan all alng with my typos i am the only one to be consistently fighting the evls of da vore well yeah but there s an easier way URL there s still mitm but it requires a far higher capability and is easier to detect once you go beyond the scamed interaction of two parties since being manipulative in principle if you run your own mailserver or have a say in what your host does make him adopt starttls ,0
 if the text recognition algorithm architecture humans use is anything like the algorithm structure we ve been working with the reason the first letter and to a lesser extent the last letter is important is that without it the text pattern recognition problem is exponentially more difficult from a theoretical standpoint anyway and has to be resolved using deeper abstraction analysis the middle letters are far less important and computationally much easier to resolve correctly i think keeping the number of middle letters consistent with the correct spelling is important would be interesting to see if this same effect is applicable to written forms of other languages maybe even japanese romongi bill ,0
 i am delurking to comment on the salon article i just wanted to say that i am grateful they choose not to publish my forbidden thought i sent it in a couple of days before the NUMBER NUMBER commeration if i had just watched the sentimental network and cable shows on NUMBER NUMBER my cynical thoughts would have remain unchanged however i watch the frontline show faith and doubt at ground zero on pbs that show tackled head on with much more courage than i have seen elsewhere the larger questions about good and evil about art as an alternate religion karlheinz stockhausen NUMBER NUMBER was a great work of art and especially the question about how religion has a darker side which when carried to fanatic extremes tends to negate the humanity of the non believers i am not a religious person but i stunned at the scope of this program it talked about the lutheran minister who spoke at yankees stadium on a podium with other religious leaders present who was charged with heresy by his own church for promoting the idea that all religions are equal presumably the lutherans have the one true path thanks for listening i just felt like i needed to put the word out about this program my shallow comment on salon and others like it my boyfriend and i had sex while the towers collapsed gives me pause about how some of us tend to harden ourselves to the suffering of others mike chris haun wrote i though this was all rather interesting first bit of NUMBER NUMBER coverage that i ve liked URL chris do you yahoo yahoo news today s headlines,0
 when we were discussing kuhn i wrote URL my understanding of the history of plate tectonics is that the magnetic reversal patterns encoded in seafloor basalts were crucial supporting data which suddenly became available only after navy declassification so the adoption curve may be skewed many of the essays in oreskes _plate tectonics_ seem to support this idea sandwell plate tectonics a martian view in this essay i ll describe a few of the important confirmations of plate tectonic theory provided by satellites and ships these tools were largely developed to support the cold war effort and many are labeled geodetic since they are used to make precise measurements of the size and shape of the earth and the spatial variations in the pull of gravity the tools of satellite geodesy are needed for all aspects of global warfare precise satellite tracking and gravity field development are needed for precision satellite surveillance as well as for targeting ballistic missiles the global positioning system is used in all aspects of modern warfare radar altimetery is used or aiming submarine launched ballistic missiles as well as for inertial navigation when submerged the global seismic networks were developed primarily to monitor underground nuclear tests marine magnetometers were developed primarily for detection of submarines multibeam sea floor mapping systems were developed primarily for surveying critical and operational areas of the northern oceans and the navy was in no hurry to declassify any of these data as any uneven coverage could have revealed the parts of the oceans they found most interesting dave what do our seismic networks say about the middle east i hazily recall a story about la reporters asking their local geophysicists about an early morning quake to be told that as far as could be figured the epicenter was at a negative depth travelling near mach speed and presumably headed towards edwards ,0
 i think keeping the number of middle letters consistent with the correct spelling is important aeftr tinryg it out on my lacol daciinorty the worst i cloud find were teilprs and of tehm the most cfinnosug seeemd to be parental paternal prenatal as cenotxt wloud be mcuh more sacfgiiinnt with the rest scuh as bakers beakers breaks NUMBER of the NUMBERk wdors were uinque dave NUMBER romaji or european languages which tend to end in vowels would presumably work better with attention on the ending syllable or at least consonant sound NUMBER are typos a larger or smaller space i had a whoromatic proggy that scattered transpositions at hazard where the hands alternated quickly that would be a much smaller space but transposing eliding spaces might make for a much larger one ,0
the usaf had a program in the NUMBER NUMBER in which successful free jumps were made from balloons at up to NUMBER km NUMBER NUMBER ft the relevance was astronauts and sr NUMBER bailouts this would top that achievement comfortably URL chuck on monday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am owen byrne wrote john hall wrote why so fast normal terminal velocity is much slower not at NUMBER NUMBER m i found this article URL the last person to try to break the highest free fall record died in the attempt in NUMBER new jersey truck driver nick piantanida suffered catastrophic equipment failure when his facemask blew out at NUMBER NUMBER feet lack of oxygen caused such severe brain damage that he went into a coma and died four months later and in amongst the flash at URL you can discover that he will break the sound barrier at NUMBER NUMBER m presumably reaching top speed somewhere above NUMBER NUMBER owen original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of bitbitch URL sent sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to robert harley cc fork URL subject re the big jump so uh would this qualify for the darwin awards if he doesn t make it freaking french people bb rh today a french officer called michel fournier is supposed to get in a rh NUMBER metre tall helium balloon ride it up to the edge of space NUMBER km rh altitude and jump out his fall should last NUMBER NUMBER minutes and reach rh speeds of mach NUMBER NUMBER he hopes to open his parachute manually at the rh end although with an automatic backup if he is NUMBER seconds from the rh ground and still hasn t opened it rh r rh obquote rh vederò si averò si grossi li coglioni come ha il re di franza rh let s see if i ve got as much balls as the king of france rh pope julius ii NUMBER january NUMBER best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
as i ve had to resubscribe to fork and fork noarchive i guess i have to reintroduce myself i m formerly known as gbolcer at endtech dot com to the fork mailman program formerly an overposter and love soaking up bits through avid reading or scanning of almost every single list that s got informative to say hopefully all those overpost will get cleared out at somepoint and fork archived greg ,0
an old indian friend forwarded this to me a while ago URL slaughter in the name of god by salman rushdie friday march NUMBER NUMBER page aNUMBER washington post the defining image of the week for me is of a small child s burned and blackened arm its tiny fingers curled into a fist protruding from the remains of a human bonfire in ahmadabad gujarat in india the murder of children is something of an indian specialty the routine daily killings of unwanted girl babies the massacre of innocents in nellie assam in the NUMBERs when village turned against neighboring village the massacre of sikh children in delhi during the horrifying reprisal murders that followed indira gandhi s assassination they bear witness to our particular gift always most dazzlingly in evidence at times of religious unrest for dousing our children in kerosene and setting them alight or cutting their throats or smothering them or just clubbing them to death with a good strong length of wood i say our because i write as an indian man born and bred who loves india deeply and knows that what one of us does today any of us is potentially capable of doing tomorrow if i take pride in india s strengths then india s sins must be mine as well do i sound angry good ashamed and disgusted i certainly hope so because as india undergoes its worst bout of hindu muslim bloodletting in more than a decade many people have not been sounding anything like angry ashamed or disgusted enough police chiefs have been excusing their men s unwillingness to defend the citizens of india without regard to religion by saying that these men have feelings too and are subject to the same sentiments as the nation in general meanwhile india s political masters have been tut tutting and offering the usual soothing lies about the situation being brought under control it has escaped nobody s notice that the ruling party the bharatiya janata party bjp or indian people s party and the hindu extremists of the vishwa hindu parishad vhp or world hindu council are sister organizations and offshoots of the same parent body even some international commentators such as britain s independent newspaper urge us to beware excess pessimism the horrible truth about communal slaughter in india is that we re used to it it happens every so often then it dies down that s how life is folks most of the time india is the world s largest secular democracy and if once in a while it lets off a little crazy religious steam we mustn t let that distort the picture of course there are political explanations ever since december NUMBER when a vhp mob demolished a NUMBER year old muslim mosque in ayodhya which they claim was built on the sacred birthplace of the god ram hindu fanatics have been looking for this fight the pity of it is that some muslims were ready to give it to them their murderous attack on the train load of vhp activists at godhra with its awful atavistic echoes of the killings of hindus and muslims by the train load during the partition riots of NUMBER played right into the hindu extremists hands the vhp has evidently tired of what it sees as the equivocations and insufficient radicalism of india s bjp government prime minister atal bihari vajpayee is more moderate than his party he also heads a coalition government and has been obliged to abandon much of the bjp s more extreme hindu nationalist rhetoric to hold the coalition together but it isn t working anymore in state elections across the country the bjp is being trounced this may have been the last straw for the vhp firebrands why put up with the government s betrayal of their fascistic agenda when that betrayal doesn t even result in electoral success the electoral failure of the bjp is thus in all probability the spark that lit the fire the vhp is determined to build a hindu temple on the site of the demolished ayodhya mosque that s where the godhra dead were coming from and there are reprehensibly idiotically tragically muslims in india equally determined to resist them vajpayee has insisted that the slow indian courts must decide the rights and wrongs of the ayodhya issue the vhp is no longer prepared to wait the distinguished indian writer mahasveta devi in a letter to india s president k r narayanan blames the gujarat government led by a bjp hard liner as well as the central government for doing too little too late she pins the blame firmly on the motivated well planned out and provocative actions of the hindu nationalists but another writer the nobel laureate v s naipaul speaking in india just a week before the violence erupted denounced india s muslims en masse and praised the nationalist movement the murderers of godhra must indeed be denounced and mahasveta devi in her letter demands stern legal action against them but the vhp is determined to destroy that secular democracy in which india takes such public pride and which it does so little to protect and by supporting them naipaul makes himself a fellow traveler of fascism and disgraces the nobel award the political discourse matters and explains a good deal but there s something beneath it something we don t want to look in the face namely that in india as elsewhere in our darkening world religion is the poison in the blood where religion intervenes mere innocence is no excuse yet we go on skating around this issue speaking of religion in the fashionable language of respect what is there to respect in any of this or in any of the crimes now being committed almost daily around the world in religion s dreaded name how well with what fatal results religion erects totems and how willing we are to kill for them and when we ve done it often enough the deadening of affect that results makes it easier to do it again so india s problem turns out to be the world s problem what happened in india has happened in god s name the problem s name is god salman rushdie is a novelist and author of the forthcoming essay collection step across this line NUMBER the washington post company sdw sdw URL URL stephen d williams NUMBER wayside cir ashburn va NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERw NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERfax decNUMBER ,0
what i understood was that the activists on the train refused to pay for the food and other items they acquired from the muslim vendors then taunted them that may not be true but it would put things in a more interesting light taking food from a small vendor in india and not paying them is trying to starve them it sounded consistent with the ideas and purpose of the train full of activists i m rarely an apologist for muslims anywhere yet i find my sympathies with the muslims in this case even after they burned the train from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of stephen d williams the pity of it is that some muslims were ready to give it to them their murderous attack on the train load of vhp activists at godhra with its awful atavistic echoes of the killings of hindus and muslims by the train load during the partition riots of NUMBER played right into the hindu extremists hands ,0
the usual crud why do morons ranting and beating their chests in the national review or similar rags merit forking ,0
first it was my understanding that they had the food before they refused to pay i often have the goods in my possession before i settle the paycheck second not being paid for a little food is an awfully big deal in india it isn t far from stealing the only food my children have so i ll have to watch them starve the margin of survival is very very thin so yes in my particular reality distortion field not paying for a little food in india is akin to a direct act of violence intended to cause suffering if not death on the victims family that such an act triggers a violent response is imho hardly surprising in other words as far as i could tell the people on the train fired the first shot with all of that said i still don t know if this happened or not nor do i know for sure that the margin of survival for those muslim vendors was that thin original message from stephen d williams mailto swilliams URL sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to johnhall URL cc fork spamassassin taint org lea URL subject re slaughter in the name of god wow it seems you are evaluating this with a large reality distortion field if the activists on the train refused to pay for food then the vendors shouldn t give it to them and the local police force should be arresting them etc you have to be operating from a particularly primitive point of view which obviously was in operation with the participants here to think that religious differences or not being paid for a little food or taunting was even a remote justification for burning a train full of people alive sdw john hall wrote what i understood was that the activists on the train refused to pay for the food and other items they acquired from the muslim vendors then taunted them that may not be true but it would put things in a more interesting light taking food from a small vendor in india and not paying them is trying to starve them it sounded consistent with the ideas and purpose of the train full of activists i m rarely an apologist for muslims anywhere yet i find my sympathies with the muslims in this case even after they burned the train from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of stephen d williams the pity of it is that some muslims were ready to give it to them their murderous attack on the train load of vhp activists at godhra with its awful atavistic echoes of the killings of hindus and muslims by the train load during the partition riots of NUMBER played right into the hindu extremists hands sdw swilliams URL URL stephen d williams senior technical director ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER stephen d williams wrote it s efficient end not low end at NUMBERmillion hour mtbf NUMBERmb sec and pretty good buffering and speed the only thing going for scsi is NUMBER NUMBER rpm vs NUMBER and in a very small number of cases slightly better scatter gather actually i think there might be a NUMBER NUMBER rpm ide now it s not just krpm the desktop hds have a higher failure rate but i agree eide has high density and eide hardware raid can offer scsi a sound beating for reliability performance and storage density rack units for the money if designed for it and if people would actually start buying it the other issues are pretty much non issues using multiple drives and controller contention just use many ide channels with extra pci cards up to NUMBER in some systems and long cable runs just split there are not all that many hard drives inside an NUMBERu enclosure airflow blockage you have to fit in NUMBER NUMBERx the number of scsi disks with eide will soon be a thing of the past due to sata storage between nodes dual port scsi is also a non issue since it is very expensive doesn t work that well in practice because there are numerous secondary failure modes for shared disk systems and because you still end up with a single point of failure since rack space costs dominate and our systems need more or less decent i o we re going with NUMBERu dells with scsi the hard drive prices don t really make a visible difference given the cost of the iron and the rackspace month plus NUMBERu dells don t have any space left for lots of eide drives ,0
the doctor wears many hats including but not limited to a rubber skullcap for playing water polo a beret for making sparkling wines and an oversized fedora to deflect his own cigar smoke which he regularly blows up my cough geege original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of jim whitehead sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject re introductions aren t you dr gregory a bolcer dutch uncle of pNUMBERp i thought he was greg bolcer recovering xpilot doom junkie jim ,0
 from stephen d williams mailto swilliams hpti com just to further weaken the food transaction argument i ll note that in my neighborhood the local mcdonalds won t even hand you your drink in the drive through until you fork over the cash maybe you never bought a hot dog from a street vendor and why is it that the margin of survival is so thin could it be that all of these tribal rivalries are part of what s holding back wholesale movement to the modern first world patterns of constructive thinking well yes but it doesn t change the idea that the margin of survival probably is that thin in this region i m sure that both sides were ready to be the agressor i m not i m sure both sides were equally ready to be the aggressor provided they were in a predominant position of power bush s reluctance to blast blind obeyance of religion as taught by your local madrassa or kkk leader apparently because he is fully involved with the general effort to expand unfettered religiosity as the solution to the world s ills is disappointing he has spoke against madrassa but what i heard sounded lame and carefully crafted to shield religion in general from scrutiny NUMBER which religion and how it is currently being expressed matters NUMBER the us is trying to avoid making war on the muslim religion NUMBER us leadership remains reflexively multi cultural we all have disagreements but at some point it becomes a crime against humanity i didn t say burning the train was a good thing i said i understood it wasn t a spontaneous attack on people who had done no wrong ,0
john hall wrote from stephen d williams mailto swilliams hpti com bush s reluctance to blast blind obeyance of religion as taught by your local madrassa or kkk leader apparently because he is fully involved with the general effort to expand unfettered religiosity as the solution to the world s ills is disappointing he has spoke against madrassa but what i heard sounded lame and carefully crafted to shield religion in general from scrutiny NUMBER which religion and how it is currently being expressed matters a which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its past certainly not christianity islam etc b how it is currently being expressed amounts to a tacit acknowledgement that the sophistication of the society involved and people s self limiting reasonableness are important to avoid primitive expression this leads to the point that religion and less sophisticated societies are a dangerous mix it also tends to invoke the image of extremes that might occur without diligent maintenance of society c many splinter christianity religions have clean hands but they also aren t found in the wild by primitive expression i don t mean to slight any society but that there is some chronic evidence of irrational mob actions and uncivilized behavior killing infants women to break religious blue laws etc the us has only really been mostly free of primitive expression for NUMBER NUMBER years although large categories including serious religious conflict were settled quite a while ago d the northern ireland protestant vs catholic feud recently more or less concluded is not completely unlike this kind of friction generated by splitting society too much along religious lines one post article pointed out that the problem basically stemmed from the vertical integration of areas along religious lines all the way to schools government political party etc of course both cases have a heritage of british conquest but who doesn t i couldn t find the article i remember but here are a couple of others URL URL northern ireland is a british province of green valleys and cloud covered hills whose NUMBER NUMBER million people are politically and religiously divided about NUMBER percent of the population is protestant and most protestants are unionists who want the province to remain part of britain the roman catholic minority is predominantly republican or nationalist they want to merge with the republic of ireland to the south in NUMBER catholic leaders launched a civil rights drive modeled on the rev martin luther king jr s campaign in the american south but violence quickly broke out with ancient religious animosities fueling the political argument armed paramilitary groups sprung up on both sides police records and historians agree that the most lethal group by far was the ira fighting on the catholic side with a goal of a united ireland the provincial police force estimates that about NUMBER NUMBER people were killed during the NUMBER year conflict known with characteristic northern ireland understatement as the troubles NUMBER the us is trying to avoid making war on the muslim religion that s fine as it would be an inappropriate concentration it would be difficult to address the issues raised here in a clean way i d be happy with an acknowledgement that the connection is there NUMBER us leadership remains reflexively multi cultural this is ok to a point as long as it doesn t shy away from logical objective analysis of when a society could be seriously improved in certain ways we all have disagreements but at some point it becomes a crime against humanity i didn t say burning the train was a good thing i said i understood it wasn t a spontaneous attack on people who had done no wrong true although i don t think you were as clear originally sdw ,0
 from stephen d williams mailto sdw lig net sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER which religion and how it is currently being expressed matters a which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its past certainly not christianity islam etc hence the qualifier current b how it is currently being expressed amounts to a tacit acknowledgement that the sophistication of the society involved and people s self limiting reasonableness are important to avoid primitive expression this leads to the point that religion and less sophisticated societies are a dangerous mix it also tends to invoke the image of extremes that might occur without diligent maintenance of society the tacit acknowledgement and self limiting you speak of is not a given or a function of sophistication but is primarily a feature of current western civilization of course sophisticated and western civilization are essentially equivalent imho but it need not be so d the northern ireland protestant vs catholic feud recently more or less concluded is not completely unlike this kind of friction generated by splitting society too much along religious lines one post article pointed out that the problem basically stemmed from the vertical integration of areas along religious lines all the way to schools government political party etc of course both cases have a heritage of british conquest but who doesn t and sometimes the religious component is a façade for an equally dangerous ethnic affiliation hindu extremism isn t about the hindu religious theology as far as i can see it is a peg to hang an ethnic identity and identity politics on muslim extremism appears to have a far greater connection to theology northern ireland is a british province of green valleys and cloud covered hills whose NUMBER NUMBER million people are politically and religiously divided about NUMBER percent of the population is protestant and most protestants are unionists who want the province to remain part of britain the roman catholic minority is predominantly republican or nationalist they want to merge with the republic of ireland to the south yep all because the scots ate oats and starved their irish out long ago while the english preferred wheat and that doesn t grow so well in ireland that and the introduction of potatoes saved the irish as irish that s fine as it would be an inappropriate concentration it would be difficult to address the issues raised here in a clean way i d be happy with an acknowledgement that the connection is there oh i think we are in a war with wide aspects of the muslim religion i know it is there but it just might not be appropriate to admit it publicly NUMBER us leadership remains reflexively multi cultural this is ok to a point as long as it doesn t shy away from logical objective analysis of when a society could be seriously improved in certain ways i didn t say this was a good thing with the exception of ethnic restaurants i can generally be counted on to oppose anything labeled multi cultural i didn t say burning the train was a good thing i said i understood it wasn t a spontaneous attack on people who had done no wrong true although i don t think you were as clear originally i m sure i wasn t ,0
 begin forwarded text date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to nettime l URL from phil duncan pduncan aggregatestudio com subject nettime the war prayer sender nettime l request URL reply to phil duncan pduncan aggregatestudio com the following prayer is from a story by mark twain and was quoted by lewis laphan in the october issue of harper s magazine it occurs at the very end of an excellent article which i recommend to you in the story an old man enters a church where the congregation has been listening to an heroic sermon about the glory to be won in battle by young patriots armed with the love of god he usurps the pulpit and prays the following o lord our god help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreads with our shells help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded writhing in pain help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter broken in spirit worn with travail imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it for our sakes who adore thee lord blast their hopes blight their lives protract their bitter pilgrimage make heavy their steps water their way with their tears stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet we ask it in the spirit of love of him who is the source of love and who is the ever faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek his aid with humble and contrite hearts amen twain wrote the story the war prayer in NUMBER during the american occupation of the philippines but the story wasn t printed until NUMBER thirteen years after his death because the editors thought it unsuitable for publication at the time it was written distributed via nettime no commercial use without permission nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets more info majordomo URL and info nettime l in the msg body archive URL contact nettime URL end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER stephen d williams wrote to make what work i already pointed out that a single drive is comparable between ide scsi alas that s wrong both the drives are faster NUMBER NUMBER krpm vs NUMBER krpm faster seek and the eide protocol is ridiculously dumb queing disconnect i think you re wrong with recent releases i ll check this week there s also jfs and xfs none of them are production quality right now only extNUMBER and extNUMBER qualify it will take a good while a year or two before we can trust anything else scsi has got advantages still particular if it comes to off shelf high density racks check out URL have you looked inside a dual cpu NUMBERu dell three drives are easy to get in anything else would require a redesign and would in nontrivial thermal engineering issues a number of vendors are putting the promise ide hardware on the motherboard all that remains is the proper drive socket i can t think of a single major vendor who sells NUMBERu systems with hardware eide raid additionally you can get hardware ide raid as a pair of drive bays or even an ide idexNUMBER controller that can be screwed into a NUMBERu chassis i believe you that stuff can be found if one is looking for it however i wouldn t put this into production unless i ve had that system hanging in the local rack under simulated load for a half a year ,0
i d like to claim the parenthood of desktop web services but then there s a ton of people doing it now what i am the parent of is jackson alan bolcer i just realized that the birth announcement was something that didn t get sent through due to my general laziness of being kicked off of fork from our stupid dns fiasco mixed with the post filtering august NUMBERth NUMBERlbs NUMBERoz NUMBER NUMBERpm greg geege schuman wrote aren t you dr gregory a bolcer dutch uncle of pNUMBERp original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of gregory alan bolcer sent saturday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork subject introductions as i ve had to resubscribe to fork and fork noarchive i guess i have to reintroduce myself i m formerly known as gbolcer at endtech dot com to the fork mailman program formerly an overposter and love soaking up bits through avid reading or scanning of almost every single list that s got informative to say hopefully all those overpost will get cleared out at somepoint and fork archived greg ,0
 adam l beberg wrote so who has done rsa implementation before having a typo i cant spot problem with my crt adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL URL done a ton of them both with and without their stuff with is definitely easier NUMBER greg NUMBER URL endeavors technology and rsa security form strategic partnership to enhance ssl performance in secure enterprise scalable pNUMBERp computing endeavors technology and rsa security combine their respective peer to peer magi enterprise web collaboration and rsa bsafe software for ssl users to instantly extend security and improve performance of desktop and corporate data sharing and web interaction between workgroups inside and across corporations irvine ca and cambridge uk september NUMBER NUMBER secure web collaboration software leader endeavors technology inc today announced a technology sharing and marketing agreement with rsa security inc the most trusted name in e security this strategic partnership is aimed at extending the security and improving the performance of the standard ssl security protocol used by every e based desktop laptop and server under the terms of the agreement rsa security s trusted security tools are embedded into endeavors technology s award winning magi enterprise software product the combined solution enables it managers and users to simply extend security and encryption to every magi enabled device for the direct device to device sharing and interaction of corporate data and workflow between workgroups within and beyond the enterprise secure collaboration between desktops and corporate systems calls for enterprises to build complex and costly network infrastructures this combination of technologies from the two companies eliminates both overheads and also the need for specific security tools for each desktop application such as microsoft project with magi s secure rsa security based peer environment collaboration can now be rapidly easily and securely extended across all devices and company firewalls and workgroups can interact with colleagues partners and clients without concern in compromising corporate information this brings true internet scaling to corporations needing to interact highly securely with strong encryption and authentication across firewalls in these challenging times there can be no compromise in safeguarding corporate data and knowledge says bernard hulme chairman and ceo of endeavors technology embedding rsa security encryption software into magi products provides it managers with added assurance speed and cost savings and a proven security net to accelerate the deployment of business centric peer to peer computing endeavors technology joins the rsa secured partner program the program is designed to ensure complete interoperability between partner products and rsa security s solutions including rsa securid two factor authentication rsa cleartrust web access management rsa bsafe encryption and rsa keon digital certificate management the strategic partnership paves the way for magi enterprise to bear the rsa secured brand on product packaging and advertising be listed in rsa secured partner solutions directories and have rsa security s out of the box certified interoperability it will also lead to joint marketing and promotional activities between the two firms mutual field sales engagement opportunities on joint accounts and NUMBERxNUMBER worldwide business continuity support endeavors technology is taking a leadership role by providing the highest level of security in its enterprise products and streamlining the deployment process for it managers says stuart cohen director of partner development at rsa security by combining our products enterprise customers have a solution that provides encryption and authentication across firewalls about magi magi enterprise NUMBER NUMBER an award winning web collaboration system transforms today s web into a highly secure inter and intra enterprise collaboration network for the first time enterprises can implement ad hoc virtual private networks for collaboration very rapidly and affordably without disrupting existing applications networks or work practices magi enterprise NUMBER NUMBER does this by effectively transforming unsecured read only web networks into two way trusted and transparent collaboration environments through the use of such features as cross firewall connections advanced data extraction an intuitive graphical interface and universal name spaces generating follow me urls for mobile professionals about rsa security inc rsa security inc the most trusted name in e security helps organizations build secure trusted foundations for e business through its rsa securid two factor authentication rsa cleartrust web access management rsa bsafe encryption and rsa keon digital certificate management product families with approximately one billion rsa bsafe enabled applications in use worldwide more than ten million rsa securid authentication users and almost NUMBER years of industry experience rsa security has the proven leadership and innovative technology to address the changing security needs of e business and bring trust to the online economy rsa security can be reached at URL about endeavors technology inc endeavors technology inc is a wholly owned subsidiary of mobile computing and network infrastructure vendor tadpole technology plc www tadpole com which has plants and offices in irvine and carlsbad california and cambridge edinburgh and bristol uk for further information on endeavors pNUMBERp solutions call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER email to pNUMBERp URL or visit the company s website URL copyright NUMBER endeavors technology inc magi and magi enterprise are registered trademarks of endeavors technology inc rsa bsafe cleartrust keon securid rsa secured and the most trusted name in e security are registered trademarks or trademarks of rsa security inc in the united states and or other countries all other products and services mentioned are trademarks of their respective companies NUMBER endeavors technology inc NUMBER fairchild suite NUMBER irvine ca NUMBER phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER email info URL all rights reserved specifications and descriptions subject to change without notice ,0
 URL ken p ken coar sanagendamgagwedweinini URL author developer opinionist URL millennium hand and shrimp ,0
 s stephen d williams sdw lig net writes s a which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its s past certainly not christianity islam etc rastafari that is if you concede that of the two founding branches only the one founded by the nyabingi were legit and the others were thinly veneered anti colonial hooligans there is also vietnamese buddhism unless you count setting fire to oneself as a foul action s c many splinter christianity religions have clean hands but s they also aren t found in the wild you d have to explain found in the wild for example i know of no violence perpetrated by the south pacific cargo cults outside of a pretty darn mean game of cricket s d the northern ireland protestant vs catholic feud recently s more or less concluded is not completely unlike this kind of s friction generated by splitting society too much along s religious lines one post article pointed out that the problem s basically stemmed from the vertical integration of areas along s religious lines all the way to schools government political s party etc of course both cases have a heritage of british s conquest but who doesn t when we launched the native net in NUMBER one of the first things we noticed on networking aboriginal groups around the world is that the british army with the us army as a proxy by extension were the common thread where neither was present physically or through influence there tended to be less violence the issue in ireland is complex but rest assured that religious aspects are only a co incidence of the invader colonials being predominantly members of the royal headed anglicans and the aboriginal population being predominantly members of the pope headed catholics the conflict itself has nothing to do with ideology or practice since the anglican church is a near identical clone of catholicism now i bet that s going to attract some healthy debate s most protestants are unionists who want the s province to remain part of britain mebst mebst it s the other way around most unionists are protestants it s their _unionism_ that is the source of the conflict not their sacriments s police records and historians agree that the most lethal s group by far was the ira fighting on the catholic side with a s goal of a united ireland and which side of the colonial fence do you suppose the police and historians sit if the russians had invaded the usa as feared in episodes such as the bay of pigs would the americans have organized to become a lethal force or would they have just said oh well there goes that democracy and settle in under communist rule just wondering NUMBER the us is trying to avoid making war on the muslim religion it is interesting to me that the canadian media is trying to paint chretien as some sort of buffoon for saying that NUMBERrd world poverty was a major contributor to NUMBER NUMBER if they d watch his now infamous interview they d see that it s still us against hooligans but his point is that the hooligans would not be able to find friendly states so easily if those states were not so bled dry by the west the same is true of street gangs when people are disenfranchised it s easier to offer them the triad as a new family you get cellphones cars a dry place to live triad biker gangs mafia the ira al queda we ve been fighting the war on terrorism for as long as there s been commerce so you d think we d realize that escalation of violence is not a solution gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 gary lawrence murphy said s stephen d williams sdw lig net writes s a which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its s past certainly not christianity islam etc rastafari that is if you concede that of the two founding branches only the one founded by the nyabingi were legit and the others were thinly veneered anti colonial hooligans there is also vietnamese buddhism unless you count setting fire to oneself as a foul action what about tibetan buddhism btw they seem like an awfully nice bunch of chaps and chapesses when we launched the native net in NUMBER one of the first things we noticed on networking aboriginal groups around the world is that the british army with the us army as a proxy by extension were the common thread where neither was present physically or through influence there tended to be less violence the issue in ireland is complex but rest assured that religious aspects are only a co incidence of the invader colonials being predominantly members of the royal headed anglicans and the aboriginal population being predominantly members of the pope headed catholics the conflict itself has nothing to do with ideology or practice since the anglican church is a near identical clone of catholicism now i bet that s going to attract some healthy debate man i m not going there again i ll agree though that the ideology or practices of the religions have very little to do with the conflict the same is true of street gangs when people are disenfranchised it s easier to offer them the triad as a new family you get cellphones cars a dry place to live triad biker gangs mafia the ira al queda we ve been fighting the war on terrorism for as long as there s been commerce so you d think we d realize that escalation of violence is not a solution well said j ,0
chuck murcko wrote the usual crud why do morons ranting and beating their chests in the national review or similar rags merit forking probably because we have this pesky NUMBERst amendment thing here it must be so great in the us the rest of us live in caves and have no such thing as free speech btw i wasn t aware that the NUMBERst amendment mandated that crap must be forked you can just ignore it if you wish i will thanks but i must feel obligated to defend to the death your right to do so je d sapprouve ce que vous dites mais je d fendrai jusqu ma mort votre droit de le dire arouet le jeune dit voltaire NUMBER NUMBER r ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER justin mason wrote what about tibetan buddhism btw they seem like an awfully nice bunch of chaps and chapesses they were the ruling class of a feudal farming society for quite some time i believe there were more than a few issues there certainly not everyone in tibet is as excited about the dalai lama as hollywood appears to be not that the chinese are much better rights wise but they ve actually built roads and such which led to the creation of merchant classes and the like that never existed under the tibetans luis ,0
i have been told to take anything read in pravda with a grain of salt but this article certainly looks impressive when paired together with this other one from the associated press just the concept makes me shudder imagining how easy it must be to smuggle these things around some parts of europe right now hopefully it s just my imagination michael cummins fort lauderdale fl URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER soviet nukes lost in ukraine URL NUMBER ap_on_re_eu ukraine_iraq_NUMBER ukraine iraq arms deals alleged tue sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm et by tim vickery associated press writer rohit khare i wish you the best of luck in your search i found my very special lady when i was intentionally looking elsewhere you never know what lurks around every corner love certainly has its own agenda scanned for viruses by the advanced mail servers at URL ,0
on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER chuck murcko wrote probably because we have this pesky NUMBERst amendment thing here still lots of us in the states have developed a disturbing tendency to shout down or in recent years shackle in legal bs opinions thoughts and individual behaviors we don t agree with except that parroting the party line doesn t really require much freedom of speech now if you had posted something from a left of center source you would have been shouted down in flames buried in ad hominem attacks and probably get your name added to an fbi list besides the basic rule in the united states now is i ll defend your rights to say anything you want but if it isn t appropriately neoconish well don t expect to work hhs seeks science advice to match bush views by rick weiss washington post staff writer tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER page aNUMBER the bush administration has begun a broad restructuring of the scientific advisory committees that guide federal policy in areas such as patients rights and public health eliminating some committees that were coming to conclusions at odds with the president s views and in other cases replacing members with handpicked choices URL owen ,0
 j justin mason jm jmason org writes j what about tibetan buddhism btw they seem like an awfully j nice bunch of chaps and chapesses yes them too when wolves attack their sheep they coral the wolf into a quarry and then throw rocks from the surrounding cliffs so that no one will know who killed the wolf in samskar before the chinese arrived there had not been a killing in over NUMBER years and the last recorded skirmish over rights to a water hole had happened several generations ago gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
probably because we have this pesky NUMBERst amendment thing here still lots of us in the states have developed a disturbing tendency to shout down or in recent years shackle in legal bs opinions thoughts and individual behaviors we don t agree with you can just ignore it if you wish but i must feel obligated to defend to the death your right to do so chuck on monday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am robert harley wrote the usual crud why do morons ranting and beating their chests in the national review or similar rags merit forking ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote j justin mason jm jmason org writes j what about tibetan buddhism btw they seem like an awfully j nice bunch of chaps and chapesses yes them too when wolves attack their sheep they coral the wolf into a quarry and then throw rocks from the surrounding cliffs so that no one will know who killed the wolf in samskar before the chinese arrived there had not been a killing in over NUMBER years and the last recorded skirmish over rights to a water hole had happened several generations ago i m skeptical one of the many perversions of modern civilization is the fictitious rendering of various peoples frequently to the point where the fiction is more real than the reality you see it over and over again in history the primitive people pull a fast one on whitey the junior anthropologist playing to all the prejudices of whitey who only became junior anthropologists to support personal ideologies and before you know it the charade takes on a life of its own which the primitive people are compelled to perpetuate worse even when there is substantial evidence to the contrary with some basic scholarship the facts have a hard time competing with the ideologically pleasing fiction that is already firmly entrenched and many peoples e g american indians develop a profit motive for maintaining and promoting the myth in popular culture i m far more inclined to believe that people is people no matter where you are on the planet the only time you see any anomalies is when you have a self selecting sub population within an otherwise normal population which is hardly a fair way to look at any major population james rogers jamesr URL ,0
 all else being equal the terminal velocity is inversely proportional to the square root of air density air density drops off pretty quickly and i really should be doing something other than digging up the math for that i think it involves calculus to integrate the amount of mass as the column of the atmosphere trails off chemistry types have a method for dealing with this question without dragging in the calculus suppose an atmosphere to be mainly affected by gravity resulting in the potential energy for a mass m to be linear in height h mgh what relative concentrations will we have when two different packets of air are in equilibrium if they are at the same height we will have half the mass in one and half the mass in the other and the amount flowing from one to the other balances the amount flowing in the opposite direction NUMBER if they are at differing heights then a greater percentage of the higher air tends to descend than that percentage of the lower air which ascends in order for the two flows to balance the higher packet must contain less air than the lower and the mass balance of the flows corresponds thusly high percentage of thin air low percentage of dense air now rates are exponential in energy differences NUMBER so that theoretically we should expect an exponential decay in height to compensate how does it go in practice dave NUMBER how well does it balance chemical equilibria seem stable as they deal with very large numbers over a very long time economic equilibria are viewed from the mayfly standpoint of individual people and so at best the shot noise is very visible NUMBER that is to say rates will be exponential in the free energy differences between endpoints and a transition state we can ignore that complication in this model ,0
 from yyyy URL mailto yyyy URL sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am we ve been fighting the war on terrorism for as long as there s been commerce so you d think we d realize that escalation of violence is not a solution well said j yeah it certainly wasn t a solution to the carthaginian problem or the barbary pirates wait no actually it was a rather permanent solution ,0
 original message from luis villa louie ximian com they were the ruling class of a feudal farming society for quite some time i believe there were more than a few issues there certainly not everyone in tibet is as excited about the dalai lama as hollywood appears to be not that the chinese are much better rights wise but they ve actually built roads and such which led to the creation of merchant classes and the like that never existed under the tibetans and it s not going to exist under the tibetans because it ll be owned and operated by chinese nationals ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER james rogers wrote the primitive people pull a fast one on whitey the junior anthropologist or margaret in the case of a famous proto feminist cheers rah r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
because of this URL there are several of us who are in the bdsm lifestyle who are trying to encourage our local groups to find alternatives to yahoo groups as a way of communicating with each other i ve set up a place to have maillists on my server for any group who wants to use it but i was wondering if anyone knows of an alternative that allows all the bells and whistles that yahoo has such as reminders file storage calendars etc anyone tia cindy i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
at fermi yes i m back there long story we re buying NUMBERu systems like the fiscal year is ending we have NUMBER asa irNUMBERusNUMBER systems not pushing them there are some other similar units available with NUMBER more on order they re NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tb for NUMBERk although we add a separate ide or scsi system disk because the NUMBERware raid controllers can saturate intel sdsNUMBER motherboard NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERghz pNUMBERs NUMBER gb ram NUMBER NUMBERware NUMBER raid controllers NUMBER NUMBERgb maxtors syskonnect gigabit enet fermi redhat NUMBER NUMBER URL there s some interesting info at URL we ve decided to go with xfs which linus has just merged into the NUMBER NUMBER tree mostly because none of the other journaled fs s can maintain NUMBER gb s rates with a nearly full filesystem mostly gb files with random deletions we use these systems for caching our NUMBER petabyte tape store extNUMBER almost did it but dropped from from NUMBERmb s to NUMBER with random deletions and didn t want to do direct io at all only concern is an occasional system lock up we haven t chased down yet a load avg NUMBER is always a patio of fun oddly even fairly beefy systems like these will breathe hard to keep up with the new stk NUMBERb tape drives which crank along at a steady NUMBERgb s and you oldforktimers will remember doofus my old file server system it would only take NUMBER NUMBER of rackspace now instead of NUMBER racks cheers wayne ,0
yes it s nice to be back in america s flaccid state seems like only yesterday we were suffering electile dysfunction maybe if they made the ballot ovals look like little blue pills no seriously i m here all week you were great nite everybody ,0
 i m a bit confused about this boycott thing how is what china is doing any different than having scientology and who ever else state side who takes the whim evoking the dmca to close down foreign sites they deem inappropriate at least the chinese make it voluntary and ask politely rather than just sending legal musclemen first off gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
robert harley writes chuck murcko wrote but i must feel obligated to defend to the death your right to do so je désapprouve ce que vous dites mais je défendrai jusqu à ma mort votre droit de le dire arouet le jeune dit voltaire NUMBER NUMBER here s hoping that tradition perseveres for the novelist currently on trial in paris for calling islam the stupidest religion URL tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am est french writer tried as anti islam protest erupts by caroline brothers paris reuters provocative french novelist michel houellebecq faced a paris court on tuesday for allegedly inciting racial hatred by calling islam the stupidest religion and its holy book the koran a depressing read the case brought against him by four muslim groups is a cause celebre reminiscent of the salman rushdie affair pitting freedom of expression against religious sensitivities the muslim groups which include the mecca based world islamic league and the paris mosque accuse the writer of insulting islam in an interview with the literary magazine lire during last year s launch of his novel plateforme lire is also on trial over the remarks which have taken on an added significance in france in the atmosphere of heightened sensitivity and concern about islam following the september NUMBER attacks by muslim radicals in the united states shortly after the trial started NUMBER people in the courtroom stripped off their shirts to reveal t shirts saying no to the censure of the imams and marianne veiled marianne raped a reference to the female symbol of the french republic freedom of expression freedom of expression they and other houellebecq supporters chanted after they were thrown out of the courtroom at the main law courts in central paris while intellectuals argued before the trial that houellebecq should be free to write what he wants lyon mosque rector kamel kabtan retorted we are for freedom of expression but not for insulting communities bete noire houellebecq NUMBER the bete noire of contemporary french literature is no stranger to controversy he offended conservatives and the politically correct left with his NUMBER novel les particules elementaires atomised in english paris mosque rector dalil boubakeur says muslims have been insulted once before by houellebecq who had the main character in plateforme admit he felt a quiver of glee every time a palestinian terrorist was killed the world islamic league the lyon mosque and the national federation of muslims in france have joined the paris mosque in bringing houellebecq to trial france s human rights league joined them as a civil party saying houellebecq s comments amounted to islamophobia and deserved to be sanctioned as part of the league s struggle against discrimination and racism the paris mosque has hired jean marc varaut one of france s leading trial lawyers whose past clients include maurice papon the former official condemned in NUMBER for nazi era crimes against humanity for sending jews to death camps restoring blasphemy houellebecq s lawyer emmanuel pierrat argues that the case effectively re establishes the notion of blasphemy despite the fact that france as a secular state has no such law and says houellebecq s opponents want to deny him freedom of expression he also argues that the interview in lire truncated a six hour conversation and houellebecq was not given the chance to approve the article before it appeared houellebecq s publisher flammarion has distanced itself from the author whose comments some say may have cost him france s prestigious goncourt prize for which he had been a contender the novelist who lives outside cork ireland writes in a detached style about a bleak world in which people have forgotten how to love translated into NUMBER languages atomised incensed france s NUMBER generation with its scathing descriptions of the hippie era but won him france s november prize in NUMBER and the impac award one of the world s biggest fiction prizes losing his case may mean a year in jail or a NUMBER NUMBER fine gordon ,0
 adam l beberg wrote so who has done rsa implementation before me raises hand having a typo i cant spot problem with my crt send me the source r ,0
pity reading that woman s ad and knowing rohit for years they sound like a match made in heaven but why oh why keep that shaved head photo on prominent display there are lots of photos of rohit looking rather dashing and with the crucial hair feature enabled r ,0
cdale wrote i was wondering if anyone knows of an alternative that allows all the bells and whistles that yahoo has such as reminders file storage calendars etc smartgroups i think ken p ken coar sanagendamgagwedweinini URL author developer opinionist URL millennium hand and shrimp ,0
on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER paul prescod wrote owen byrne wrote except that parroting the party line doesn t really require much freedom of speech now if you had posted something from a left of center source you would have been shouted down in flames buried in ad hominem attacks and probably get your name added to an fbi list do you think it is really useful to combat hysterical right wing propoganda with hysterical left wing propoganda sure it is it tends to bring out the people who let hysterical right wing propaganda spew forth while reaching for their gun whenever a liberal enters the room my hysterical left wing propaganda is generally an emotional reaction on a mailing list not an organizaed attempt at converting people s thinking through lies and distortion as was the original article whereas your constant and predictable brandings of my postings are to my mind a deliberate and reasoned effort to reduce debate and discourage left of center postngs owen ,0
well i don t think china could force yahoo to give up info so if they are so willing to give it why wouldn t they be willing to give info to some silly group who may one day decide to get a hair up their ass about the practice of bdsmers not to mention folks who don t even practice but who are just interested in information what about folks who are interested in talking about software security issues didja read about the guy in china who got NUMBER years for downloading and printing out pro democracy info URL i m confused about what you re confused about cindy on NUMBER sep NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote i m a bit confused about this boycott thing how is what china is doing any different than having scientology and who ever else state side who takes the whim evoking the dmca to close down foreign sites they deem inappropriate at least the chinese make it voluntary and ask politely rather than just sending legal musclemen first off i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rodent of unusual size wrote smartgroups i think dave farber s interesting people list just went over to http www listbox com cheers rah r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 e eirikur hallgrimsson eh mad scientist com writes e you just can t tell important things from a picture and a few e words it s not how we are built there s no geek code for e the heart and soul nor is there a turing test even for someone with whom you ve spent NUMBER years boom bust and boom again and NUMBER children trust me there is no magic litmus test other than the totally empirical try it and see string bags full of oranges and matters of the heart people laugh at anything and things just fall apart michael leunig the only real test the only sensible test is to look back and realize your relationship has lasted NUMBER years and see no reason to believe it couldn t last another NUMBER in the absense of NUMBER years of actual ahem hands on experiential data a photo and a few words are as good as any provided you are prepared for the dynamics of it love is a verb sex is a shared pursuit there is no relation ship there is only the crew sail away gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
on wednesday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am robert harley wrote and with the crucial hair feature enabled that got a good laugh out of me just saying crucial hair feature improves my day immeasurably i ve done a fair amount of thinking about the media intermediated meeting thing it seriously loses for reasons like rohit s just encountered one is both rejected for trivial reasons and rejects for the same some people loudly defend that these choices are not trivial i d have never met my best friend if i had to pick her out of a crowd for getting to know i was a teen at the time but i won t say i m much improved at being able to spot interesting at a distance interesting isn t an external thing i have that brought home to me again every so often i may think that interesting people dress differently or whatever but that s total superstition how do i know what your version of creative attire is maybe it s purely functional i was at a loud party recently sufficiently loud that conversation of any kind was extremely difficult and intoxication was the norm i was working on what my algorithm for meeting people there should be and one of the candidates was women in order of attractiveness i flinched from that rather violently at a trade show or something i might elect to talk to the people who are looking at interesting exhibits at a party well if you can t hear the conversation they are having or if on the net all you have is a photo you just can t tell important things from a picture and a few words it s not how we are built there s no geek code for the heart and soul and if there were people would lie and game the system it s too easy to say oh no he s a geek or she s a cat person ick when you might have a great time together we are constructed to form alliances based on how we fit together as people how we feel in the other person s company how well we partner on tasks and recreation this is all entirely speculative based on nothing but superstitious association unless you actually have time in the person s company which is why we tend to be screwed when our circle of exposure shrinks after school personally as a writer the whole internet meet email thing ought to work better for me than it does for other people but interestingly it doesn t i have to put out the same amount of effort and reap about the same poor results i have to think it s not the people but the tool an aside okay yes i m a tool geek speed dating speed dating aka NUMBER minute dating is a live action stab at actual time in the company of a variety of people compressed into one event i think it s noticably better but still absolutely nothing like working on a project together cooking climbing a mountain or whatever it was in fact invented as a jewish thing seeking to match up the young people to avoid total assimilation it has too much interview context and no shared activity beyond that i give it several points for effort though i guess my impression that even the speed dating thing doesn t do much for you means that the traditional advice of join activities groups is actually sound eirikur ,0
gordon mohr quoted french writer tried as anti islam protest erupts by caroline brothers paris reuters provocative french novelist michel houellebecq faced a paris court on tuesday for allegedly inciting racial hatred by calling islam the stupidest religion and its holy book the koran a depressing read the case brought against him by four muslim groups is a cause celebre reminiscent of the salman rushdie affair pitting freedom of expression against religious sensitivities very reminiscent indeed ayatollah chirac has decreed a death sentence on houellebecq and liked minded fundamentalists have offered millions of euros bounty for his head so he has gone into hiding under police protection for a few years or maybe some handful of muslims are acting uppity and dragging him to court under hate speech laws make a point about people not showin dem da massive respect dat dey deserve especially these days or maybe some journo is trying to fill column inches on a boring day btw i read houellebecq s extension du domaine de la lutte recently about a depressed computer services dude working in paris looking for love and not finding it slowing losing his marbles and trying to get a friend of his to kill a woman and ending up in a clinic for nutcases yikes purposely provocative very depressing with some unbelievably boring passages where the anti hero writes little stories about animals talking philosophical mumbo jumbo to each other quoted inline in full for pages on end it starts out on friday evening i was invited to a party with some colleagues from work there were about thrity of us all professionals aged from twenty five to forty at one point some cunt started getting undressed she took off her t shirt then her bra then her skirt all the while making unbelievable faces she pranced around for a few seconds then she started getting dresesd again because she didn t know what else to do anyway she never sleeps with anyone which underlines the absurdity of her behaviour after my fourth glass of vodka i started to feel pretty bad so i had to go lie down on a bunch of cushions behind the couch shortly after that two girls came and sat on the couch those girls are not pretty at all the two fat office cows actually they go to eat together and read books about the development of language in children all that sort of stuff and it s downhill from there r ,0
hear hear gary i m living with a guy right now who i met at a party emailed with for NUMBER weeks then powie we were both looking at similar goals in life in general had some attraction for each other and decided to wing it i can t say what s going to happen tomorrow but right now and for the past few months we ve been happy onward ho cindy on NUMBER sep NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote e eirikur hallgrimsson eh mad scientist com writes e you just can t tell important things from a picture and a few e words it s not how we are built there s no geek code for e the heart and soul nor is there a turing test even for someone with whom you ve spent NUMBER years boom bust and boom again and NUMBER children trust me there is no magic litmus test other than the totally empirical try it and see string bags full of oranges and matters of the heart people laugh at anything and things just fall apart michael leunig the only real test the only sensible test is to look back and realize your relationship has lasted NUMBER years and see no reason to believe it couldn t last another NUMBER in the absense of NUMBER years of actual ahem hands on experiential data a photo and a few words are as good as any provided you are prepared for the dynamics of it love is a verb sex is a shared pursuit there is no relation ship there is only the crew sail away i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
perhaps we should start a grass roots movement here on fork and send the nice lady a few emails on his behalf better yet why don t we see on who can write the best personals ad for rohit i ll post the best one to craigs list on his behalf the winner can take me out to dinner no really i m charming elias robert harley wrote pity reading that woman s ad and knowing rohit for years they sound like a match made in heaven but why oh why keep that shaved head photo on prominent display there are lots of photos of rohit looking rather dashing and with the crucial hair feature enabled r ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER tom wrote the others are on mailing list only status for now a few of the groups i was in that are run by others are harder to deal with since many folks just dont want to have to deal with the inconvienence of a understanding i ve terminated a number of my own mailing lists at yahoogroups many months ago because of similiar sentiments i ve tried lobbying other people to move but with about zero success i ve got currently only one own mailing list there which i m going to move as soon as it is technically possible which is my isp s problem basically after that i intend to kick yahoogroups for good ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER i know it s not the popular choice for a lot of people but i d suggest um church like woody allen said NUMBER of life is showing up right almost anyone can find a church where the sermons don t make you bust out laughing and you re set i for instance am a unitarian which as someone once observed is merely a decompression chamber between a real church and a golf course obuujokes mid NUMBER s bumper sticker honk if you re not sure lenny bruce did you hear about how the klan burned a question mark on the unitarian s lawn unitarians would rather go to a discussion group about heaven than to heaven itself unitarians pray to whom it may concern etc but seriously folks my teenage adopted denomination i m um lapsed on several fronts a dutch reformed turned atheist father and an agnostic mother who used to be a southern baptist of some stripe or another and frankly limousine liberal secular humanist congregation is about as orthogonal to my present congenital republican small l libertarian turned anarchocapitalist politics as it is possible to be except for the secular humanist bit and i still go pretty regularly though not as much as i used to heck the older i get the less of the divine i believe in i m asymptotically approaching my father s atheism these days and i show up at least once a month nice folks though when i can keep a civil tongue in my head smart too when i can t and end up arguing with them anyway if i can end up hitched anyone can talk about orthogonal i met my practically socialist state education bureaucrat wife one year after i started moved in with her NUMBER weeks later married her NUMBER years after that and i wasn t even trying meet women i was just looking to make friends as i was new in town the trick to the church thing is whatever denomination congregation you end up in expect to end up with a mate not a date i mean some guys manage to stay single but most like me don t you can practically see the laser sights light up when you walk into a room that s because of course most churches are run by women most regular attendants are women hell NUMBER of all new ministers in protestant denominations at least are women no matter your age looks intelligence whatever you ll end up surrounded by women you ll be outnumbered even several to one some of whom are at least better looking than you are the only place where there are more women running things is in grass roots republican politics but i won t go there i promise if i may make a presumption here since you brought it up i figure that between the sophistication and diversity of the subcontinent s religions and the ubiquity of indians in various stages of assimilation in so nocal you can find some place to hang out near you rohit you probably don t even have to go um native like i did backsliding on my own ostensibly rational godless upbringing and becoming horrors a unitarian cheers rah begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER iqa awubpyjcbcpxhNUMBERjfNUMBERohaeqiNUMBERvwcbbNUMBERukmyii xwkqvvjfswlmmrhebsamwub jdmfqrnrqedNUMBERlmwNUMBERvNUMBERyutnNUMBER vq a end pgp signature r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER r a hettinga wrote i know it s not the popular choice for a lot of people but i d suggest um church like woody allen said NUMBER of life is showing up right i think another venue for finding people is the workplace as a contractor i have had the opertunity to meet lots of eligables over the course of my wandering workhistory my wife was my task order manager years ago thats how we met her joke is that she is still my task order manager but now i dont get paid by starting up your own companies or working in sterile thinklabs you are cutting yourself off from one heck of a fertile ground for linkages the common office i like the shurch idea as well other ideas book circles geocaching groups heck rhorho your still young enough to hit the campus mixers and i mean the social stuff not the techtech events above all ask yourself whats important to you life you either life it or you waste it tom ,0
church aa same diff cheers rah URL URL wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER aa meetings the hottest place to meet women with big bucks if you re looking to hook up with female millionaires you could try some of the classier restaurants or clubs but the best place of all is a certain new york city alcoholics anonymous meeting according to a details magazine story cited in the new york post the no NUMBER location to score a megabucks babe is an alcoholics anonymous center on new york s upper east side it s the choicest meeting in town right next to the ralph lauren store on madison avenue which features rich vulnerable women the mag s october issue says aa officials were not overjoyed by having the address of their meeting place published or being cited as the in place for finding loaded women or rather women who are loaded the purpose of our meetings is to let people share their experiences and help others find sobriety it is not a place to pick up women an aa spokesman told the post o k return r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER r a hettinga wrote church aa same diff aa is sort of church with ashtrays ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER r a hettinga wrote aa meetings the hottest place to meet women with big bucks and as always you can take a page out of fight club and start showing up at all sorts of support groups look what it did for marla and jack jack you can t have both parasites you take blood parasites and marla i want brain parasites she opens another dryer and does the same thing again pg NUMBER jack okay i ll take blood parasites and i ll take organic brain dementia and marla i want that jack you can t have the whole brain marla so far you have four and i have two jack well then take blood parasites now we each have three marla so we each have three that s six what about the seventh day i want ascending bowel cancer jack i want ascending bowel cancer marla that s your favorite too tried to slip it by me huh jack we ll split it you get it the first and third sunday of the month marla deal ,0
advice to the lovelorn haiku serendipity pilots synchronicity turn the next corner original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of tom sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to r a hettinga cc fork URL subject re aa meetings the hottest place to meet women with big bucks on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER r a hettinga wrote aa meetings the hottest place to meet women with big bucks and as always you can take a page out of fight club and start showing up at all sorts of support groups look what it did for marla and jack jack you can t have both parasites you take blood parasites and marla i want brain parasites she opens another dryer and does the same thing again pg NUMBER jack okay i ll take blood parasites and i ll take organic brain dementia and marla i want that jack you can t have the whole brain marla so far you have four and i have two jack well then take blood parasites now we each have three marla so we each have three that s six what about the seventh day i want ascending bowel cancer jack i want ascending bowel cancer marla that s your favorite too tried to slip it by me huh jack we ll split it you get it the first and third sunday of the month marla deal ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER r a hettinga wrote dave farber s interesting people list just went over to http www listbox com it always was i think meng weng wong the founder of pobox listbox et al was a student of dave farber s listbox just upgraded its software however udhay udhay shankar n udhay pobox com www digeratus com ,0
less obscure haiku buy a puppy ro they are chick magnets master ventriloquism gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of tom sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to r a hettinga cc fork URL subject re aa meetings the hottest place to meet women with big bucks on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER r a hettinga wrote aa meetings the hottest place to meet women with big bucks and as always you can take a page out of fight club and start showing up at all sorts of support groups look what it did for marla and jack jack you can t have both parasites you take blood parasites and marla i want brain parasites she opens another dryer and does the same thing again pg NUMBER jack okay i ll take blood parasites and i ll take organic brain dementia and marla i want that jack you can t have the whole brain marla so far you have four and i have two jack well then take blood parasites now we each have three marla so we each have three that s six what about the seventh day i want ascending bowel cancer jack i want ascending bowel cancer marla that s your favorite too tried to slip it by me huh jack we ll split it you get it the first and third sunday of the month marla deal ,0
and the ever popular or bring a baby provided you do not own women come at baby s cry gs less obscure haiku gs buy a puppy ro gs they are chick magnets master gs ventriloquism gs gg gs original message gs from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of tom gs sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm gs to r a hettinga gs cc fork URL gs subject re aa meetings the hottest place to meet women with big bucks gs on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER r a hettinga wrote gs aa meetings the hottest place to meet women with big bucks gs and as always you can take a page out of fight club and start showing up gs at all sorts of support groups look what it did for marla and jack gs jack you can t have both parasites you take blood parasites and gs marla i want brain parasites gs she opens another dryer and does the same thing again pg NUMBER gs jack okay i ll take blood parasites and i ll take organic brain dementia gs and gs marla i want that gs jack you can t have the whole brain gs marla so far you have four and i have two gs jack well then take blood parasites now we each have three gs marla so we each have three that s six what about the seventh day i gs want ascending bowel cancer gs jack i want ascending bowel cancer gs marla that s your favorite too tried to slip it by me huh gs jack we ll split it you get it the first and third sunday of the month gs marla deal best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
tom wrote on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER r a hettinga wrote i know it s not the popular choice for a lot of people but i d suggest um church like woody allen said NUMBER of life is showing up right i think another venue for finding people is the workplace as a contractor i have had the opertunity to meet lots of eligables over the course of my wandering workhistory my wife was my task order manager years ago thats how we met her joke is that she is still my task order manager but now i dont get paid sure if you re willing to risk firing lawsuits etc the last full time job i had the sexual harassement seminar was pretty clear yes you can have relationships at the office but its extremely difficult and the pitfalls are horrendous owen ,0
this sort of thing is in my limited experience increasingly a thing of the past not one person i know has found it worth the risk to pursue a relationship with someone in the workplace it s terrible to think we could litigate our way into extinction elias owen byrne wrote the last full time job i had the sexual harassement seminar was pretty clear yes you can have relationships at the office but its extremely difficult and the pitfalls are horrendous ,0
 begin forwarded text subject dgc chat first public release of neudist distributed transaction clearing framework from pelle braendgaard pelle neubia com to dgcchat URL cc digital bearer settlement list dbs philodox com dgcchat dgcchat URL xmlx xml api intertrader com date NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER reply to dgcchat URL i m happy to announce the first public release of neudist neudist is an open source software framework for building applications for the neubia distributed clearing platform this release contains early java libraries and documentation that would primarily be of interest to developers talking about documentation it is still a bit slim and mainly oriented towards people with experience in java xml development there are currently no sample applications but they will be available in the next release the framework currently contains the following classes for creating named objects which are authenticated using digital signatures within a hierarchy storage framework for named objects simple xml signature implementation almost certainly not yet interoperable with other implementations simple soap client simple servlet api for handling soap requests based on named objects current types of named objects include namespace objects for maintaining the namespace authentication framework authenticationtickets for doing web site authentication using digital signatures next major release is scheduled to contain core hard coded root public key for authenticating top level namespaces signing services implementation of web based signing services end user hosted signing service example user authentication application example payment system based on neudist i will be expanding the documentation over the next few weeks this will cover not only more indepth technical documentation but also higher level documentation about the business side of things read more about neudist or download our early version at URL i would love to hear your questions and suggestions to discuss it further please join neudist discuss URL you can join it at URL regards pelle antilles software ventures sa URL my web log live and direct from panama URL views of an econofist URL subscribe send blank email to dgcchat join URL unsubscribe send blank email to dgcchat leave URL digest send an email to dgcchat request URL with set yourname URL digest on in the message body end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire _______________________________________________ irregulars mailing list irregulars URL URL ,0
this is for those that have interacted with d winer dave s idea of love is fucking everyone else without so much as a reach around you re supposed to just shut up and take it URL who s the real monster it seems good ol uncle dave is once again trying to savage anyone that dares to disagree with him it seems ben kevin and bill are making too strong a case so here we dave s attempt to fool you into thinking they re some sort of monsters violent ones no less anyone who works with hemenway or kearney should be aware that these people are nothing less than monsters who will stoop to any level to get their way yeah sure dave whatever you need to believe the truth is these folks do a fine job of actually helping others and improving rss in general each with their own brand of attitude to be sure but they seem to be pretty focused on actually helping things move forward how is that being monstrous is dave trying to slander their good names and thus poison the public s perception of them if you haven t already contact them and ask them how they feel about this foolishness NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am discuss dave deflects what he can t take the time to understand it s really quite pitiful when normal people don t understand something they usually try learning about it they read up ask questions and seek the help of those that understand it this before shooting their mouths off and looking like fools what dave does is just the opposite posts a link to something he doesn t understand get s a bunch of e mail from people who do understand it derides the idea as being too much trouble and blogs it expects others to do research for him abuses anyone who tries to help him pontificates incorrectly about only part of the issue realizes he s been a fool but refuses to correct himself plods forward pedantically trying to defend his idiocy tries making the educated people look like fools sends private e mails to them trying to scare them off exposes any private e mail they write out of context deflects and runs off to some new topic repeats from NUMBER his continued diatribes about rss NUMBER NUMBER and it s use of rdf reveal this to be true dave doesn t get the idea of the semantic web he d rather have you follow his stupid ideas than dare admit that the work of others is worth trying one reader wrote to us with a good analogy it s like that movie the poseidon adventure dave s like the purser ranting and raving that the passengers should follow him and march toward the bow i don t know about you but i d rather be with the fat lady swimming toward the engine room the ship s fucking sinking and i don t want to be following the idiot dave s idea of love is fucking everyone else without so much as a reach around you re supposed to just shut up and take it after all why would good ol uncle dave want to hurt you it s all about love right to hell with asking you if you want to get shafted and if you dare complain he savages you then he tries to make everyone think you re the one causing all the trouble we ve news for you dave we re wise to your tactics and we re talking amongst ourselves about it we re routing around you damaging behavoir that s where we re coming from if you have an example of how you ve tried to help dave please drop us an e mail about it we ll keep it strictly confidential of course send it along to zaphod URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am discuss trying to talk with dave is like trying to wrestle a pig the trouble is you get dirty and the pig seems to like it another developer tries talking to dave and discovers it s fundamentally impossible his basic response was just that rdf was a joke and the semantic web developers are doing a terrible job in the span of less than five minutes dave makes such an ass of himself that people at other tables start whispering that guy is an idiot the zaphodim however are veteran pig wrestlers if you ve got a similar tale from the mud pit be sure to drop us a line at zaphod URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm discuss NUMBER response aha some backing down by the whining one it would appear the dictator release strategy that dave s been trying on his crappy little set of rss hacks is failing to gain support i m going to push back the caveat removing on the NUMBER NUMBER spec by NUMBER hours still have work to do on the sample file i want to look into the rfc for time date specs and get started on the radio implementation of NUMBER NUMBER i have to prepare for seybold tomorrow and i want to a little memorial for NUMBER NUMBER a busy few days for a guy still recovering also it would be great if people who make content tools could review the NUMBER NUMBER spec and see if there are any deal stoppers hell yeah there are deal stoppers like nobody wants it nor will they use it the poor radio customers the poor salon blog users they re going to be dragged unwillingly into producing xml content that nobody will use so with the flip of his mighty upgrade switch dave is going to turn all their content into totally unsupported garbage ya better speak up now folks otherwise your content is going to start getting rejected of course at the same time dave tries to play the sympathy card what utter fucking nonsense this past weekend the blogosphere excoriates him for his blame america bullshit then the rss community tells him to get stuffed with his dictator release of rss now he s trying to pretend we should be nice to him because he s still recovering uh dave if you want to take a rest from the battle then stop picking fights we ll still kick your ass regardless that s what years of your abusing people has gotten you dave no sympathy anymore none whatsoever NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm discuss dave is scary on NUMBER NUMBER posted on scripting news on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER note during the day tomorrow there will be no updates to scripting news i ll be in sf at seybold leading a discussion on web services for publishing with people from amazon apple google and jake savin of userland i may be able to update my radio weblog but only if there s something really important to report so best wishes for a happy and safe NUMBER NUMBER what kind of asshole wishes people a happy NUMBER NUMBER obviously someone who doesn t have a clue nor lost anyone in the tragedy NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am discuss yeow and we though we were harsh wow apparently dave s sticking his neck out quite far these days craig schamp practically keel hauls him with this one he wraps it up with the man seems to show over and over that he s nothing more than a whining buffoon give that man an honorary zaphodim membership card and secret decoder ring related links over at photodude richard bennett andrea harris reid stott jeff jarvis ipse dixit and the fat guy NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm discuss rss NUMBER NUMBER code name hitler if dave tries to steamroll rss NUMBER NUMBER through without formal community consensus here now we call it the hitler release of NUMBER NUMBER no objections no he means no objections i choose to hear dave is simply not listening people are objecting all over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am discuss referral log funnies every now and then we check the referral logs to see what s pointing back to us we sincerely apologize to the pool soul that used this search NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm discuss luserland attempts to trademark rss dave has waxed and waned about intellectual property rights and how any bigco that tries to patent its technology or methods is corrupt or morally bankrupt scripting news is full of examples so we found it surprising as did many others when luserland software tried to patent the term rss back in NUMBER here s the patent application URL this was apparently just between the start of the rss NUMBER NUMBER development efforts and the publication of the specification winer knew about the rss NUMBER NUMBER stuff indeed he complained about it bitterly at the time could dave be any more transparent since when has dave been required to follow anything he says he wants others to do a good quote from before he filed the patent application tim o reilly says patents are ok he s just against stupid patents in the spirit of touch of grey tim man patents are lock in of the worst kind there s no way to route around them NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am discuss when s a permalink not a permalink when dave writes an item then removes it the permalink links to nothing at that point so apparently the perma part in permalink is permanent for everyone except dave too bad his little attempt at a definition fails to mention this NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm discuss ,0
 it seems good ol uncle dave is once again trying to savage anyone that dares to disagree with him it seems ben kevin and bill are making too strong a case so here we dave s attempt to fool you into thinking they re some sort of monsters violent ones no less anyone who works with hemenway or kearney should be aware that these people are nothing less than monsters who will stoop to any level to get their me coughs i m part of the monster club they call me hemenway g morbus iff i assault your sensibilities culture URL and URL tech URL articles and weblog icq NUMBER aim akamorbus yahoo morbus_iff URL morbus ,0
heh ten years ago saying the exact same words was most definitely not parroting the party line it was even less so thirty years ago my story remains the same take it or leave it i ve said the same words to white supremacists as to suburban leftist punks as to homeys as to french irish etc etc i don t have to agree with anything you say i am obligated to defend to the death your right to say it i don t give a rat s ass where you say it even in france i don t care where the political pendulum has swung currently chuck on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am owen byrne wrote on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER chuck murcko wrote probably because we have this pesky NUMBERst amendment thing here still lots of us in the states have developed a disturbing tendency to shout down or in recent years shackle in legal bs opinions thoughts and individual behaviors we don t agree with except that parroting the party line doesn t really require much freedom of speech now if you had posted something from a left of center source you would have been shouted down in flames buried in ad hominem attacks and probably get your name added to an fbi list besides the basic rule in the united states now is i ll defend your rights to say anything you want but if it isn t appropriately neoconish well don t expect to work hhs seeks science advice to match bush views by rick weiss washington post staff writer tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER page aNUMBER the bush administration has begun a broad restructuring of the scientific advisory committees that guide federal policy in areas such as patients rights and public health eliminating some committees that were coming to conclusions at odds with the president s views and in other cases replacing members with handpicked choices URL owen ,0
chuck murcko wrote heh ten years ago saying the exact same words was most definitely not parroting the party line it was even less so thirty years ago my story remains the same take it or leave it i ve said the same words to white supremacists as to suburban leftist punks as to homeys as to french irish etc etc i don t have to agree with anything you say i am obligated to defend to the death your right to say it i don t give a rat s ass where you say it even in france i don t care where the political pendulum has swung currently chuck i had to laugh at rumsfield yesterday when he was heckled by protestors he said something like they couldn t do that in iraq meanwhile from what i could tell the protestors were being arrested owen ,0
chuck murcko wrote stuff yawn r ,0
r a hettinga church aa same diff it s difficult to measure which is the greater liability in a potential mate religiosity or alcoholism _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL ,0
owne byrne sure if you re willing to risk firing lawsuits etc the last full time job i had the sexual harassement seminar was pretty clear yes you can have relationships at the office but its extremely difficult and the pitfalls are horrendous despite that this is how a lot of couples meet people tease me about carolyn that i just hired a lot of software engineering babes and then chose the one i liked best _________________________________________________________________ send and receive hotmail on your mobile device URL ,0
 in a message dated NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am chuck URL writes that means you can t say anything may not be forked or printed or whatever you have the choice to ignore it that s not what the first amendment says at all it says that congress cannot say what can t be forked fork can establish any rules it wants similarly the new york times gets to choose what news it thinks is fit to print if the times chose not to print anything about say rosie o donnell it would be exercising its first amendment rights just as much as it would be if it chose to print something rosie o donnell doesn t like the necessary corollary of the freedom to say publish what one wants is the freedom to refuse to publish or say what one doesn t like the alternative is a state controlled press that reprints government press releases and calls them news the question of what is or is not forked is except for libel or other specific exceptions not a matter of law but a matter of what the publisher if any decides or the community if any negotiates or does as a matter of custom for my part i d rather people didn t use fork as a place in which to dump an expression of their political beliefs tom ,0
robert harley btw i wasn t aware that the NUMBERst amendment mandated that crap must be forked chuck murcko chuck topsail org it doesn t btw it says the right to free speech shall not be abridged that means you can t say anything may not be forked or printed or whatever actually it means just the opposite the first amendment guarantees harley s right to say just that for the outlets where he has editorial control it even guarantees his right to censor content published through those outlets the first amendment doesn t limit harley s speech and it is neutral with regard to the selection policies of fork and other private venues _________________________________________________________________ msn photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos URL ,0
we have a partnership with webex we use their serivce for cross firewall app sharing something that netmeeting messenger and sametime require a lot of configuration of firewalls authentications access controls and user training for now webex has invites instant meeting launch without any configuration users like it as now they have something to do in between web conferences and places to store and author documents reschedule meetings relaunch meetings webex likes it as people are signed on all the time greg september NUMBER NUMBER tadpole s secure web software subsidiary endeavors technology teams with web meetings leader webex communications to provide best of breed solution for extended group collaboration during and between online meetings web meetings raise the quality of team interaction and communications for users of the web s secure pNUMBERp collaboration network tadpole technology plc the mobile computing and network infrastructure group today announces that its web collaboration subsidiary endeavors technology inc has teamed with web meetings leader webex communications inc to help professionals make better use of corporate time and resources and gain competitive advantage by integrating the advanced communications capabilities of the webex platform with endeavors secure pNUMBERp collaboration network endeavors has created a new method of world class teamwork and interaction without the hassle of travel with the rapid growth in popularity of web meetings the rationale for this world class relationship stems from the growing need for workgroups around the world to maintain the quality of the team collaboration experience between online meetings the issue by those preferring not to travel is how to continue to collaborate and share information with team members between meetings rather than depending on intermittent insecure email and multiple copies of constantly changing documents inter meeting collaboration needs an asynchronous medium independent of time in asynchronous mode a team member can access read and edit information relevant to the meeting group at his her convenience rather than having to fit into the schedules and timeframes of others a secured environment available only to members of a meeting or project is also essential endeavors magi technology converts the web into a secure platform for sharing information directly from people s desktops webex meetings can be recorded and reviewed at any time documents shared in the meeting can be actioned in real time or at a later date calendars and project schedules can be updated at any time and new individuals added to the workgroup at will all in a secure environment with people working across the globe inside or outside company firewalls magi peer collaboration securely delivers significant benefits to web meeting participants not only can they share and access information at will but they can also know which other participants are online or present this enables them to chat and message each other search across other people s magi environment and work jointly on relevant documents highly productively with magi collaboration in tandem with webex conferencing the savings can be huge in terms of travel costs phone bills and most importantly timely completion of projects and tasks in order to realise the full potential of web meetings best of breed services are needed to eliminate time and geographical boundaries says bernard hulme tadpole s group chief executive the powerful combination of endeavors magi and webex s communications technologies will assist global work teams to better meet critical business goals and deadlines by maintaining teamwork momentum within and between web meetings webex is transforming the way businesses use the web for sales marketing training support and product design says david farrington vice president of corporate development at webex communications by integrating the communications capabilities of the webex platform with endeavors secure collaboration network endeavors has created an offering that provides the best in synchronous and asynchronous communications about magi magi enterprise NUMBER NUMBER an award winning web collaboration system transforms today s web into a highly secure inter and intra enterprise collaboration network of files and web resources for the first time enterprises can implement ad hoc virtual private networks for collaboration very rapidly and affordably without disrupting existing applications networks or work practices magi enterprise NUMBER NUMBER does this by effectively transforming unsecured read only web networks into two way trusted and transparent collaboration environments through the use of such features as cross firewall connections advanced data extraction an intuitive graphical interface and universal name spaces generating follow me urls for mobile professionals about endeavors technology inc endeavors technology inc is a wholly owned subsidiary of mobile computing and network infrastructure vendor tadpole technology plc lse tad www tadpole com which has plants and offices in irvine and carlsbad california and cambridge edinburgh and bristol uk for further information on endeavors pNUMBERp solutions call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER email to pNUMBERp URL or visit the company s website URL ends for further information please contact bernard hulme tadpole technology via patcom media hugh paterson patcom media tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER email hughp URL bullets for editors webex web communications services synchronous network based platform for delivering highly interactive visually dynamic web communications the webex platform supports real time data voice and video communications webex is the only company to design develop and deploy a global network for real time web communications magi on and off line asynchronous communication and collaboration cross enterprise search and discovery transparent security and trust ssl pki NUMBER way web access to files and applications permanent cross firewall access ad hoc and permanent secure groups centralized or decentralized control of access lists and security privileges centralized caching of information never lose anything critical multi device access to information desktop laptop pda ,0
 on thursday sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER europe london bill kearney wrote from the completely unrelated but funny department talk like a pirate day URL which is today of course that and piratecore rapping style URL anything just anything to get us off the geek dating tips topic bill kearney arrr he be a scurvy dog that bill kearney ,0
ben hammersley wrote on thursday sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER europe london bill kearney wrote from the completely unrelated but funny department talk like a pirate day URL which is today of course that and piratecore rapping style URL anything just anything to get us off the geek dating tips topic bill kearney arrr he be a scurvy dog that bill kearney well shiver me timbers but my favorite pirate phrase is missing from both of those arrr and wondering if there s a rap equivalent owen URL q and a section shiver my timbers from tad spencer please could you tell me where the phrase shiver my timbers originated this is one of those supposedly nautical expressions that seem to be better known through a couple of appearances in fiction than by any actual sailors usage it s an exclamation that may allude to a ship striking some rock or other obstacle so hard that her timbers shiver or shake so implying a calamity has occurred it is first recorded as being used by captain frederick marryat in jacob faithful in NUMBER i won t thrash you tom shiver my timbers if i do it has gained a firm place in the language because almost fifty years later robert louis stevenson found it to be just the kind of old salt saying that fitted the character of long john silver in treasure island cross me and you ll go where many a good man s gone before you some to the yard arm shiver my timbers and some by the board and all to feed the fishes since then it s mainly been the preserve of second rate seafaring yarns ,0
geege schuman wrote less obscure haiku buy a puppy ro they are chick magnets master ventriloquism reminds me of a gary larson cartoon woman walking dog man walking aligator dog mostly eaten by aligator thought cloud above man s head this is such a great way to meet chicks joe ,0
 ahhhh dave winer seems like only yesterday fork was knee deep in winerrants hes gone away though so sad insert real honest to goshness tears but the past live on in the archives remeber when dave was being betrayed by o reilly URL on closed source justifications URL daves trys to grok fork URL nt runs just as good as linux really URL there are a few months of this stuff just google or forkcrawl the archives then he got truly fedup with all our not polite unfresh thinking and went silent for the most part oh well back to life tom ,0
 chuck murcko wrote heh ten years ago saying the exact same words was most definitely not parroting the party line it was even less so thirty years ago my story remains the same take it or leave it i ve said the same words to white supremacists as to suburban leftist punks as to homeys as to french irish etc etc i don t have to agree with anything you say i am obligated to defend to the death your right to say it i don t give a rat s ass where you say it even in france i don t care where the political pendulum has swung currently chuck i had to laugh at rumsfield yesterday when he was heckled by protestors he said something like they couldn t do that in iraq meanwhile from what i could tell the protestors were being arrested owen trying to shoutdown a speaker or being loud and rowdy while someone else is trying to speak in the vernacular getting in their face is rude and disrespectful and persistently getting in someones face is assault a criminal offense if these people have something to say they can say it with signs or get their own venue and here is something else to chew on these protesters are not interested in changing anyones mind about what rumsfield is saying how likely are you to change someone s mind by being rude and disrespectful to them is this how to win friends and influence people either these folks are social misfits who have no understanding of human interactions else they would try more constructive means to get their message across or they are just out to get their rocks off regardless of how it affects other people and that is immoral at best and downright evil at worst bill ,0
bill stoddard wrote chuck murcko wrote heh ten years ago saying the exact same words was most definitely not parroting the party line it was even less so thirty years ago my story remains the same take it or leave it i ve said the same words to white supremacists as to suburban leftist punks as to homeys as to french irish etc etc i don t have to agree with anything you say i am obligated to defend to the death your right to say it i don t give a rat s ass where you say it even in france i don t care where the political pendulum has swung currently chuck i had to laugh at rumsfield yesterday when he was heckled by protestors he said something like they couldn t do that in iraq meanwhile from what i could tell the protestors were being arrested owen trying to shoutdown a speaker or being loud and rowdy while someone else is trying to speak in the vernacular getting in their face is rude and disrespectful and persistently getting in someones face is assault a criminal offense if these people have something to say they can say it with signs or get their own venue and here is something else to chew on these protesters are not interested in changing anyones mind about what rumsfield is saying how likely are you to change someone s mind by being rude and disrespectful to them is this how to win friends and influence people either these folks are social misfits who have no understanding of human interactions else they would try more constructive means to get their message across or they are just out to get their rocks off regardless of how it affects other people and that is immoral at best and downright evil at worst bill polite and respectful protest is acceptable then no dumping tea in the harbour or anything like that i think the primary purpose of loud and rowdy protests is to get on television and that the tactics can be justified as a reaction to a systematic removal of alternative viewpoints from that medium on the other hand it was a priceless tv moment there was nothing resembling assault and the protestors were not in anybody s face at least in my understanding of the vernacular and no being rude and disrespectful is not the way to influence politicians but the standard way of using lobbyists and writing checks is beyond many of us owen ,0
on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bill stoddard wrote how likely are you to change someone s mind by being rude and disrespectful to them is this how to win friends and influence people point the first i doubt if they are trying to change rumsy s mind but rather to show others that there is a vocal and violent opposition to his views with such flagrant showings of opposition there would be more coverage of the opposing ideas and thus the spreading of the dissenting meme a viri need not comply with the wishes of the attacked host rather the host had better make some antibodies or learn to adapt point the second historicaly the in yer face mode of confrontation has been used to gain popular support and to grow from seeds grass roots movements witness the big bold in yer face signature of hancock on the in yer face declaration of the american colonies to the governing powers of england witness also the chicago seven others will follow in examplare form upon digging now point the third is it annoying yes and if your annoyed then the in yer facers have done thier job sad to say the polite persnikiters are teh very fule the in yer facers hope to ignite if your burning your being used pointed the personal the politics of the polite are more often the refuge of backstabings closed mouth recourlessness and hypocritcal behavoirs id rather hear what those who oppose me have to say than quietly be knifed by the slow hand of the coward seek not the polite or impolite but rather the reasons why tom ,0
owen byrne writes quoting URL shiver my timbers from tad spencer please could you tell me where the phrase shiver my timbers originated this is one of those supposedly nautical expressions that seem to be better known through a couple of appearances in fiction than by any actual sailors usage it s an exclamation that may allude to a ship striking some rock or other obstacle so hard that her timbers shiver or shake so implying a calamity has occurred it is first recorded as being used by captain frederick marryat in jacob faithful in NUMBER i won t thrash you tom shiver my timbers if i do it seems implausible to me that shiver here means to shake i don t recall seeing the word used transitively in that sense and webNUMBER lists that sense as v i or intransitive the transitive sense of shiver which we no longer use but which people used widely in the NUMBERs webNUMBER doesn t even list it as archaic or obsolete means to shatter into splinters normally with a blow shivering a boat s timbers of course leaves you with no boat shivering some of them which will happen if you hit a rock hard enough leaves you with a sinking boat so shiver my timbers if i do can be reasonably interpreted as a more vivid way of saying may i die suddenly if i do the interpretation suggested by quinion may my boat be damaged neither makes as much sense in context nor obeys the normal rules of grammar i ve sent a copy of this to quinion ,0
 on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bill stoddard wrote how likely are you to change someone s mind by being rude and disrespectful to them is this how to win friends and influence people point the first i doubt if they are trying to change rumsy s mind but rather to show others that there is a vocal and violent opposition to his views with such flagrant showings of opposition there would be more coverage of the opposing ideas and thus the spreading of the dissenting meme a viri need not comply with the wishes of the attacked host rather the host had better make some antibodies or learn to adapt point the second historicaly the in yer face mode of confrontation has been used to gain popular support and to grow from seeds grass roots movements witness the big bold in yer face signature of hancock on the in yer face declaration of the american colonies to the governing powers of england witness also the chicago seven others will follow in examplare form upon digging now point the third is it annoying yes and if your annoyed then the in yer facers have done thier job sad to say the polite persnikiters are teh very fule the in yer facers hope to ignite if your burning your being used pointed the personal the politics of the polite are more often the refuge of backstabings closed mouth recourlessness and hypocritcal behavoirs id rather hear what those who oppose me have to say than quietly be knifed by the slow hand of the coward seek not the polite or impolite but rather the reasons why tom good points all but they don t apply in this case someone is speaking and a group of selfish bastards only interested in getting their rocks off are trying to shout him down they are doing it because it s good for the soul kind like chuckie manson doing the stuff he did cause it was good for his soul unprincipled and evil it s got nothing to do with throwing tea in the harbor or the doi bill ,0
what i meant was that neither he nor anyone else has any authority to say something can or can t be published and make that stick at least in the us and from some descriptions france of course he can say anything he wants and i can choose to ignore it or not works both ways fscking semantics chuck on thursday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am russell turpin wrote robert harley btw i wasn t aware that the NUMBERst amendment mandated that crap must be forked chuck murcko chuck topsail org it doesn t btw it says the right to free speech shall not be abridged that means you can t say anything may not be forked or printed or whatever actually it means just the opposite the first amendment guarantees harley s right to say just that for the outlets where he has editorial control it even guarantees his right to censor content published through those outlets the first amendment doesn t limit harley s speech and it is neutral with regard to the selection policies of fork and other private venues _________________________________________________________________ msn photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos URL ,0
on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER bill stoddard wrote good points all but they don t apply in this case someone is speaking and a group of selfish bastards only interested in getting their rocks off are trying to shout him down they are doing it because it s good for the soul kind like chuckie manson doing the stuff he did cause it was good for his soul unprincipled and evil it s got nothing to do with throwing tea in the harbor or the doi history is written by the victors if the rabble can put forth there ideas they will be tempered in the pages of yore as strong willed voices decrying the obvious injustices of the day once again look at the chicago NUMBER a loud and rude a crowd of selfish pricks as you were want to find in the day history of course colors them with times great blur filter the jagged bits that at the time were called rude and obnoxious are now seen as a stab of justive doing in the sideof the ill pathed goverment ,0
 for my part i d rather people didn t use fork as a place in which to dump an expression of their political beliefs i ll second that although with emphasis upon dump rather than on political i don t mind if people advocate nuking gay baby whales for jesus if they can make a good original argument for it i do mind if someone should attempt to further the notion that NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER merely by cut and pasting a few pages of w r new bits are not a temporal property we create them when we add context or clarification to the old bits of others thoughts dave being rude and disrespectful is not the way to influence politicians but the standard way of using lobbyists and writing checks is beyond many of us the standard way has some extreme precedents q when was the roman empire sold and who bought it a on march NUMBERth NUMBER ad the roman empire was auctioned off by the praetorian guards to the wealthy senator didius julianus for the price of NUMBER drachms per soldier as found in URL quoting gibbon now an economist might argue that selling offices is the most efficient way to fill them what would coase say but wouldn t that convince everyone but the supporters of plutocracy that efficiency is not the primary virtue of politics ,0
 original message from kragen sitaker kragen pobox com it s an exclamation that may allude to a ship striking some rock or other obstacle so hard that her timbers shiver or shake so implying a calamity has occurred it is first recorded as being used by captain frederick marryat in jacob faithful in NUMBER i won t thrash you tom shiver my timbers if i do i think it went like this i won t thrash you tom if you shiver my timber or maybe that was just the butt pirates ,0
 just tried smartgroups the layout of pages is pretty challenging to use quickly but the most interesting aspect is that once you are in there is no way to get out you can unsubscribe yourself as the sole member of a group but you cannot delete the group or if you can i couldn t find it before deleting myself and now it s invisible to me another interesting thing security forms are reset to full public settings each time you load them rather than set from your current settings all in all i wasn t impressed and have stayed with the yahooligans for another run gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER mr fork wrote i think it went like this i won t thrash you tom if you shiver my timber or maybe that was just the butt pirates how did i get wrangled into this thread do i really need to make pewp deck jokes at this point arrrrg ye mateys now best ya be off tis topic or ill hoist my jib and hope for a stiff wind arrrg when im happy and arrrg when im not ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER bill stoddard wrote people either these folks are social misfits who have no understanding of human interactions else they would try more constructive means to get their message across or they are just out to get their rocks off regardless of how it affects other people and that is immoral at best and downright evil at worst are you kidding it was fucking brilliant do you know what exposure that got them they sat perfectly so that the cameras could focus on the mildly exasperated rumsfeld and their un inspections not war banner that picture will be dominating the news cycles in china iraq russia germany and france at least for goodness sakes you re arguing about it on fork in politics by sound bite those two rude hags kicked ass and took names for the record i don t think they even got arrested which is a shame it is part of the game make an ass of yourself get your point on the nightly news spend a couple days in the clink for disorderly njl ,0
 forwarded message date NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from perry e metzger perry URL to cryptography URL subject sun donates elliptic curve code to openssl according to this URL sun is donating some elliptic curve code to the openssl project does anyone know details that they would care to share on the nature of the donation perry e metzger perry URL the cryptography mailing list unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to majordomo URL ,0
 in a message dated NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm dl URL writes i don t mind if people advocate nuking gay baby whales for jesus if they can make a good original argument for it i can t imagine any other kind of argument for nuking gay baby whales for jesus but do you mean nuking baby gay whales who are for jesus or nuking baby gay whales for jesus s sake splitting hairs with a fork tom ,0
well it looks like sun are going ahead with their ubiquitous computing plans without mithril greg reuters market news sun micro outlines roadmap for managing networks friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am et by peter henderson san francisco reuters computer maker sun microsystems inc on thursday said it would create in a few years a network environment that will be as straightforward to handle as a single machine a strategy it calls nNUMBER it laid out a road map for a new layer of intelligent software and systems that will meld unwieldy networks into easy to use systems a goal similar to those of most rivals making computers which manage networks emc corp announced this week software aimed at allowing users to manage storage resources as a pool hewlett packard co has a utility data center designed for broader management international business machines corp s project eliza is working to make computers self healing when systems break applications still have to run zeroes and ones on some computing engine but the whole idea behind nNUMBER is you stop thinking about that you don t think about what box it is running on sun vice president steve mackay head of the nNUMBER program said in an interview on the sidelines of a sun user conference many industry executives see computer power eventually being sold like power or water as a utility that can be turned on or off in whatever volume one wants whenever needed for that to happen computers must be tied together seamlessly rather than cobbling them together with tenuous links as most networks do today experts say there are still major barriers though such as communications standards for machines from different vendors to interoperate closely sun promised to deliver a virtualization engine that would let administrators look at their entire network as a pool by the end of the year network administrators today often have no automatic system to report what is in the network it ll tell you what you have and how it is laid out promised mackay the second stage beginning in NUMBER would allow users to identify a service such as online banking and allocate resources for them with a few clicks sun said finally in NUMBER sun s software should allow networks to change uses of resources on the fly in response to changing needs such as a bank assuring quicker online response time for priority users the company said ,0
 on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER bill stoddard wrote people either these folks are social misfits who have no understanding of human interactions else they would try more constructive means to get their message across or they are just out to get their rocks off regardless of how it affects other people and that is immoral at best and downright evil at worst are you kidding it was fucking brilliant do you know what exposure that got them they sat perfectly so that the cameras could focus on the mildly exasperated rumsfeld and their un inspections not war banner what i am specifically referring to is protesters shouting down speakers or making so much noise that it interferes with the speaker that s wrong immoral and unethical no matter what the political bent of the speakers and the protesters rowdy protests in their own venue on a college campus or some of the commons areas of dc is perfectly fine by me waving signs to get attention is fine that picture will be dominating the news cycles in china iraq russia germany and france at least for goodness sakes you re arguing about it on fork in politics by sound bite those two rude hags kicked ass and took names for the record i don t think they even got arrested which is a shame well owen implied the protesters were arrested was he just jacking himself off at the expense of other people exactly why is it a shame that they were not arrested think about what you are saying and what you are telegraphing about your state of mind here you want people to do bad things ie police arresting peaceful protesters if it can help you further your cause that attitude just sucks you have no moral ground to stand on if that is what you believe it is part of the game make an ass of yourself get your point on the nightly news spend a couple days in the clink for disorderly sure just don t whine about getting arrested if you make it a point to get in someone s face one other comment most of the people that are protesting against taking out the iraqi dictator wouldn t give a rats ass if a nuke went off in nyc they simply wouldn t care so why in the hell should the americal public listen to them on matters of national security so enlighten me exactly why shouldn t hussein be taken out and if your answr boils down to i don t give a shit about what happens to the us you can kiss my ass bill ,0
i m sure patton used it i m all for using it in the coming war with iraq yet i d be queasy about doing it in the philippines circa NUMBER which was his point original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of r a hettinga sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to digital bearer settlement list fork URL subject nettime the war prayer begin forwarded text status ro date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to nettime l URL from phil duncan pduncan aggregatestudio com subject nettime the war prayer sender nettime l request URL reply to phil duncan pduncan aggregatestudio com the following prayer is from a story by mark twain and was quoted by lewis laphan in the october issue of harper s magazine it occurs at the very end of an excellent article which i recommend to you in the story an old man enters a church where the congregation has been listening to an heroic sermon about the glory to be won in battle by young patriots armed with the love of god he usurps the pulpit and prays the following o lord our god help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreads with our shells help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded writhing in pain help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter broken in spirit worn with travail imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it for our sakes who adore thee lord blast their hopes blight their lives protract their bitter pilgrimage make heavy their steps water their way with their tears stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet we ask it in the spirit of love of him who is the source of love and who is the ever faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek his aid with humble and contrite hearts amen twain wrote the story the war prayer in NUMBER during the american occupation of the philippines but the story wasn t printed until NUMBER thirteen years after his death because the editors thought it unsuitable for publication at the time it was written distributed via nettime no commercial use without permission nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets more info majordomo URL and info nettime l in the msg body archive URL contact nettime URL end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 a world where some live in comfort and plenty while half of the human race lives on less than NUMBER a day is neither just nor stable absolutely correct perhaps the most fundamental thing to realize about life on earth today the following is a fascinating document of official government policy that bears close reading it is the aspirations of a wonderful nation in an imperfect world the war on terrorism is not a clash of civilizations it does however reveal the clash inside a civilization a battle for the future of the muslim world this is a struggle of ideas and this is an area where america must excel i was recently at a lecture about the surprising success of radio sawa our new music and news channel for NUMBER NUMBER year old arabs it s NUMBER in practically every market it s entered nearing NUMBER listenership in amman and it s even beginning to be trusted for news well past bbc and taking share from every other government broadcaster it is as hard to imagine america losing a war of ideas in the long term as it is to imagine america making any headway at all in the short term many of you may disagree but i found the document below surprisingly centrist if you know the code you can hear clearly partisan tones re icc taiwan relations act etc but still this is as much a democratic platform as not africa and aids take up more mindshare than i feared they might as you read replace united states with roman empire and it may make as much sense in the long view of history i don t know how proud to be about that but it is telling sometime i daydream that the president might sit down with the nation with perotista flip charts and explain to our citizens the sheer vastness of our NUMBER military installations overseas and what they do for us it would be a powerful education on how engaged we are in the world around us heck i d love to see a real time map of federal expenditures around the globe a softly glowing necklace of embassies carriers arctic research stations hotels golf courses warehouses libraries clinics and all the rest of the influence a trillion dollars here or there can buy of course this still doesn t leave me any more comfortable with the real news in this document the bush doctrine for pre emptive strikes i d sooner repeal the church amendments on covert action than permit such a principle to be loosed upon the world rohit september NUMBER NUMBER full text bush s national security strategy following is the full text of president bush s new national security strategy the document entitled the national security strategy of the united states will soon be transmitted to congress as a declaration of the administration s policy introduction the great struggles of the twentieth century between liberty and totalitarianism ended with a decisive victory for the forces of freedom and a single sustainable model for national success freedom democracy and free enterprise in the twenty first century only nations that share a commitment to protecting basic human rights and guaranteeing political and economic freedom will be able to unleash the potential of their people and assure their future prosperity people everywhere want to say what they think choose who will govern them worship as they please educate their children male and female own property and enjoy the benefits of their labor these values of freedom are right and true for every person in every society and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom loving people across the globe and across the ages today the united states enjoys a position of unparalleled military strength and great economic and political influence in keeping with our heritage and principles we do not use our strength to press for unilateral advantage we seek instead to create a balance of power that favors human freedom conditions in which all nations and all societies can choose for themselves the rewards and challenges of political and economic liberty by making the world safer we allow the people of the world to make their own lives better we will defend this just peace against threats from terrorists and tyrants we will preserve the peace by building good relations among the great powers we will extend the peace by encouraging free and open societies on every continent defending our nation against its enemies is the first and fundamental commitment of the federal government today that task has changed dramatically enemies in the past needed great armies and great industrial capabilities to endanger america now shadowy networks of individuals can bring great chaos and suffering to our shores for less than it costs to purchase a single tank terrorists are organized to penetrate open societies and to turn the power of modern technologies against us to defeat this threat we must make use of every tool in our arsenal from better homeland defenses and law enforcement to intelligence and cutting off terrorist financing the war against terrorists of global reach is a global enterprise of uncertain duration america will help nations that need our assistance in combating terror and america will hold to account nations that are compromised by terror because the allies of terror are the enemies of civilization the united states and countries cooperating with us must not allow the terrorists to develop new home bases together we will seek to deny them sanctuary at every turn the gravest danger our nation faces lies at the crossroads of radicalism and technology our enemies have openly declared that they are seeking weapons of mass destruction and evidence indicates that they are doing so with determination the united states will not allow these efforts to succeed we will build defenses against ballistic missiles and other means of delivery we will cooperate with other nations to deny contain and curtail our enemies efforts to acquire dangerous technologies and as a matter of common sense and self defense america will act against such emerging threats before they are fully formed we cannot defend america and our friends by hoping for the best so we must be prepared to defeat our enemies plans using the best intelligence and proceeding with deliberation history will judge harshly those who saw this coming danger but failed to act in the new world we have entered the only path to safety is the path of action as we defend the peace we will also take advantage of an historic opportunity to preserve the peace today the international community has the best chance since the rise of the nation state in the seventeenth century to build a world where great powers compete in peace instead of continually prepare for war today the world s great powers find ourselves on the same side united by common dangers of terrorist violence and chaos the united states will build on these common interests to promote global security we are also increasingly united by common values russia is in the midst of a hopeful transition reaching for its democratic future and a partner in the war on terror chinese leaders are discovering that economic freedom is the only source of national wealth in time they will find that social and political freedom is the only source of national greatness america will encourage the advancement of democracy and economic openness in both nations because these are the best foundations for domestic stability and international order we will strongly resist aggression from other great powers even as we welcome their peaceful pursuit of prosperity trade and cultural advancement finally the united states will use this moment of opportunity to extend the benefits of freedom across the globe we will actively work to bring the hope of democracy development free markets and free trade to every corner of the world the events of september NUMBER NUMBER taught us that weak states like afghanistan can pose as great a danger to our national interests as strong states poverty does not make poor people into terrorists and murderers yet poverty weak institutions and corruption can make weak states vulnerable to terrorist networks and drug cartels within their borders the united states will stand beside any nation determined to build a better future by seeking the rewards of liberty for its people free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies out of poverty so the united states will work with individual nations entire regions and the entire global trading community to build a world that trades in freedom and therefore grows in prosperity the united states will deliver greater development assistance through the new millennium challenge account to nations that govern justly invest in their people and encourage economic freedom we will also continue to lead the world in efforts to reduce the terrible toll of aids and other infectious diseases in building a balance of power that favors freedom the united states is guided by the conviction that all nations have important responsibilities nations that enjoy freedom must actively fight terror nations that depend on international stability must help prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction nations that seek international aid must govern themselves wisely so that aid is well spent for freedom to thrive accountability must be expected and required we are also guided by the conviction that no nation can build a safer better world alone alliances and multilateral institutions can multiply the strength of freedom loving nations the united states is committed to lasting institutions like the united nations the world trade organization the organization of american states and nato as well as other long standing alliances coalitions of the willing can augment these permanent institutions in all cases international obligations are to be taken seriously they are not to be undertaken symbolically to rally support for an ideal without furthering its attainment freedom is the non negotiable demand of human dignity the birthright of every person in every civilization throughout history freedom has been threatened by war and terror it has been challenged by the clashing wills of powerful states and the evil designs of tyrants and it has been tested by widespread poverty and disease today humanity holds in its hands the opportunity to further freedom s triumph over all these foes the united states welcomes our responsibility to lead in this great mission i overview of america s international strategy our nation s cause has always been larger than our nation s defense we fight as we always fight for a just peace a peace that favors liberty we will defend the peace against the threats from terrorists and tyrants we will preserve the peace by building good relations among the great powers and we will extend the peace by encouraging free and open societies on every continent president bush west point new york june NUMBER NUMBER the united states possesses unprecedented and unequaled strength and influence in the world sustained by faith in the principles of liberty and the value of a free society this position comes with unparalleled responsibilities obligations and opportunity the great strength of this nation must be used to promote a balance of power that favors freedom for most of the twentieth century the world was divided by a great struggle over ideas destructive totalitarian visions versus freedom and equality that great struggle is over the militant visions of class nation and race which promised utopia and delivered misery have been defeated and discredited america is now threatened less by conquering states than we are by failing ones we are menaced less by fleets and armies than by catastrophic technologies in the hands of the embittered few we must defeat these threats to our nation allies and friends this is also a time of opportunity for america we will work to translate this moment of influence into decades of peace prosperity and liberty the u s national security strategy will be based on a distinctly american internationalism that reflects the union of our values and our national interests the aim of this strategy is to help make the world not just safer but better our goals on the path to progress are clear political and economic freedom peaceful relations with other states and respect for human dignity and this path is not america s alone it is open to all to achieve these goals the united states will champion aspirations for human dignity strengthen alliances to defeat global terrorism and work to prevent attacks against us and our friends work with others to defuse regional conflicts prevent our enemies from threatening us our allies and our friends with weapons of mass destruction ignite a new era of global economic growth through free markets and free trade expand the circle of development by opening societies and building the infrastructure of democracy develop agendas for cooperative action with other main centers of global power and transform america s national security institutions to meet the challenges and opportunities of the twenty first century ii champion aspirations for human dignity some worry that it is somehow undiplomatic or impolite to speak the language of right and wrong i disagree different circumstances require different methods but not different moralities president bush west point new york june NUMBER NUMBER in pursuit of our goals our first imperative is to clarify what we stand for the united states must defend liberty and justice because these principles are right and true for all people everywhere no nation owns these aspirations and no nation is exempt from them fathers and mothers in all societies want their children to be educated and to live free from poverty and violence no people on earth yearn to be oppressed aspire to servitude or eagerly await the midnight knock of the secret police america must stand firmly for the nonnegotiable demands of human dignity the rule of law limits on the absolute power of the state free speech freedom of worship equal justice respect for women religious and ethnic tolerance and respect for private property these demands can be met in many ways america s constitution has served us well many other nations with different histories and cultures facing different circumstances have successfully incorporated these core principles into their own systems of governance history has not been kind to those nations which ignored or flouted the rights and aspirations of their people our own history is a long struggle to live up to our ideals but even in our worst moments the principles enshrined in the declaration of independence were there to guide us as a result america is not just a stronger but is a freer and more just society today these ideals are a lifeline to lonely defenders of liberty and when openings arrive we can encourage change as we did in central and eastern europe between NUMBER and NUMBER or in belgrade in NUMBER when we see democratic processes take hold among our friends in taiwan or in the republic of korea and see elected leaders replace generals in latin america and africa we see examples of how authoritarian systems can evolve marrying local history and traditions with the principles we all cherish embodying lessons from our past and using the opportunity we have today the national security strategy of the united states must start from these core beliefs and look outward for possibilities to expand liberty our principles will guide our government s decisions about international cooperation the character of our foreign assistance and the allocation of resources they will guide our actions and our words in international bodies we will speak out honestly about violations of the nonnegotiable demands of human dignity using our voice and vote in international institutions to advance freedom use our foreign aid to promote freedom and support those who struggle non violently for it ensuring that nations moving toward democracy are rewarded for the steps they take make freedom and the development of democratic institutions key themes in our bilateral relations seeking solidarity and cooperation from other democracies while we press governments that deny human rights to move toward a better future and take special efforts to promote freedom of religion and conscience and defend it from encroachment by repressive governments we will champion the cause of human dignity and oppose those who resist it iii strengthen alliances to defeat global terrorism and work to prevent attacks against us and our friends just three days removed from these events americans do not yet have the distance of history but our responsibility to history is already clear to answer these attacks and rid the world of evil war has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder this nation is peaceful but fierce when stirred to anger the conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others it will end in a way and at an hour of our choosing president bush washington d c the national cathedral september NUMBER NUMBER the united states of america is fighting a war against terrorists of global reach the enemy is not a single political regime or person or religion or ideology the enemy is terrorism premeditated politically motivated violence perpetrated against innocents in many regions legitimate grievances prevent the emergence of a lasting peace such grievances deserve to be and must be addressed within a political process but no cause justifies terror the united states will make no concessions to terrorist demands and strike no deals with them we make no distinction between terrorists and those who knowingly harbor or provide aid to them the struggle against global terrorism is different from any other war in our history it will be fought on many fronts against a particularly elusive enemy over an extended period of time progress will come through the persistent accumulation of successes some seen some unseen today our enemies have seen the results of what civilized nations can and will do against regimes that harbor support and use terrorism to achieve their political goals afghanistan has been liberated coalition forces continue to hunt down the taliban and al qaida but it is not only this battlefield on which we will engage terrorists thousands of trained terrorists remain at large with cells in north america south america europe africa the middle east and across asia our priority will be first to disrupt and destroy terrorist organizations of global reach and attack their leadership command control and communications material support and finances this will have a disabling effect upon the terrorists ability to plan and operate we will continue to encourage our regional partners to take up a coordinated effort that isolates the terrorists once the regional campaign localizes the threat to a particular state we will help ensure the state has the military law enforcement political and financial tools necessary to finish the task the united states will continue to work with our allies to disrupt the financing of terrorism we will identify and block the sources of funding for terrorism freeze the assets of terrorists and those who support them deny terrorists access to the international financial system protect legitimate charities from being abused by terrorists and prevent the movement of terrorists assets through alternative financial networks however this campaign need not be sequential to be effective the cumulative effect across all regions will help achieve the results we seek we will disrupt and destroy terrorist organizations by direct and continuous action using all the elements of national and international power our immediate focus will be those terrorist organizations of global reach and any terrorist or state sponsor of terrorism which attempts to gain or use weapons of mass destruction wmd or their precursors defending the united states the american people and our interests at home and abroad by identifying and destroying the threat before it reaches our borders while the united states will constantly strive to enlist the support of the international community we will not hesitate to act alone if necessary to exercise our right of self defense by acting preemptively against such terrorists to prevent them from doing harm against our people and our country and denying further sponsorship support and sanctuary to terrorists by convincing or compelling states to accept their sovereign responsibilities we will also wage a war of ideas to win the battle against international terrorism this includes using the full influence of the united states and working closely with allies and friends to make clear that all acts of terrorism are illegitimate so that terrorism will be viewed in the same light as slavery piracy or genocide behavior that no respectable government can condone or support and all must oppose supporting moderate and modern government especially in the muslim world to ensure that the conditions and ideologies that promote terrorism do not find fertile ground in any nation diminishing the underlying conditions that spawn terrorism by enlisting the international community to focus its efforts and resources on areas most at risk and using effective public diplomacy to promote the free flow of information and ideas to kindle the hopes and aspirations of freedom of those in societies ruled by the sponsors of global terrorism while we recognize that our best defense is a good offense we are also strengthening america s homeland security to protect against and deter attack this administration has proposed the largest government reorganization since the truman administration created the national security council and the department of defense centered on a new department of homeland security and including a new unified military command and a fundamental reordering of the fbi our comprehensive plan to secure the homeland encompasses every level of government and the cooperation of the public and the private sector this strategy will turn adversity into opportunity for example emergency management systems will be better able to cope not just with terrorism but with all hazards our medical system will be strengthened to manage not just bioterror but all infectious diseases and mass casualty dangers our border controls will not just stop terrorists but improve the efficient movement of legitimate traffic while our focus is protecting america we know that to defeat terrorism in today s globalized world we need support from our allies and friends wherever possible the united states will rely on regional organizations and state powers to meet their obligations to fight terrorism where governments find the fight against terrorism beyond their capacities we will match their willpower and their resources with whatever help we and our allies can provide as we pursue the terrorists in afghanistan we will continue to work with international organizations such as the united nations as well as non governmental organizations and other countries to provide the humanitarian political economic and security assistance necessary to rebuild afghanistan so that it will never again abuse its people threaten its neighbors and provide a haven for terrorists in the war against global terrorism we will never forget that we are ultimately fighting for our democratic values and way of life freedom and fear are at war and there will be no quick or easy end to this conflict in leading the campaign against terrorism we are forging new productive international relationships and redefining existing ones in ways that meet the challenges of the twenty first century iv work with others to defuse regional conflicts we build a world of justice or we will live in a world of coercion the magnitude of our shared responsibilities makes our disagreements look so small president bush berlin germany may NUMBER NUMBER concerned nations must remain actively engaged in critical regional disputes to avoid explosive escalation and minimize human suffering in an increasingly interconnected world regional crisis can strain our alliances rekindle rivalries among the major powers and create horrifying affronts to human dignity when violence erupts and states falter the united states will work with friends and partners to alleviate suffering and restore stability no doctrine can anticipate every circumstance in which u s action direct or indirect is warranted we have finite political economic and military resources to meet our global priorities the united states will approach each case with these strategic principles in mind the united states should invest time and resources into building international relationships and institutions that can help manage local crises when they emerge the united states should be realistic about its ability to help those who are unwilling or unready to help themselves where and when people are ready to do their part we will be willing to move decisively policies in several key regions offer some illustrations of how we will apply these principles the israeli palestinian conflict is critical because of the toll of human suffering because of america s close relationship with the state of israel and key arab states and because of that region s importance to other global priorities of the united states there can be no peace for either side without freedom for both sides america stands committed to an independent and democratic palestine living beside israel in peace and security like all other people palestinians deserve a government that serves their interests and listens to their voices and counts their votes the united states will continue to encourage all parties to step up to their responsibilities as we seek a just and comprehensive settlement to the conflict the united states the international donor community and the world bank stand ready to work with a reformed palestinian government on economic development increased humanitarian assistance and a program to establish finance and monitor a truly independent judiciary if palestinians embrace democracy and the rule of law confront corruption and firmly reject terror they can count on american support for the creation of a palestinian state israel also has a large stake in the success of a democratic palestine permanent occupation threatens israel s identity and democracy so the united states continues to challenge israeli leaders to take concrete steps to support the emergence of a viable credible palestinian state as there is progress towards security israel forces need to withdraw fully to positions they held prior to september NUMBER NUMBER and consistent with the recommendations of the mitchell committee israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories must stop as violence subsides freedom of movement should be restored permitting innocent palestinians to resume work and normal life the united states can play a crucial role but ultimately lasting peace can only come when israelis and palestinians resolve the issues and end the conflict between them in south asia the united states has also emphasized the need for india and pakistan to resolve their disputes this administration invested time and resources building strong bilateral relations with india and pakistan these strong relations then gave us leverage to play a constructive role when tensions in the region became acute with pakistan our bilateral relations have been bolstered by pakistan s choice to join the war against terror and move toward building a more open and tolerant society the administration sees india s potential to become one of the great democratic powers of the twenty first century and has worked hard to transform our relationship accordingly our involvement in this regional dispute building on earlier investments in bilateral relations looks first to concrete steps by india and pakistan that can help defuse military confrontation indonesia took courageous steps to create a working democracy and respect for the rule of law by tolerating ethnic minorities respecting the rule of law and accepting open markets indonesia may be able to employ the engine of opportunity that has helped lift some of its neighbors out of poverty and desperation it is the initiative by indonesia that allows u s assistance to make a difference in the western hemisphere we have formed flexible coalitions with countries that share our priorities particularly mexico brazil canada chile and colombia together we will promote a truly democratic hemisphere where our integration advances security prosperity opportunity and hope we will work with regional institutions such as the summit of the americas process the organization of american states oas and the defense ministerial of the americas for the benefit of the entire hemisphere parts of latin america confront regional conflict especially arising from the violence of drug cartels and their accomplices this conflict and unrestrained narcotics trafficking could imperil the health and security of the united states therefore we have developed an active strategy to help the andean nations adjust their economies enforce their laws defeat terrorist organizations and cut off the supply of drugs while as important we work to reduce the demand for drugs in our own country in colombia we recognize the link between terrorist and extremist groups that challenge the security of the state and drug trafficking activities that help finance the operations of such groups we are working to help colombia defend its democratic institutions and defeat illegal armed groups of both the left and right by extending effective sovereignty over the entire national territory and provide basic security to the colombian people in africa promise and opportunity sit side by side with disease war and desperate poverty this threatens both a core value of the united states preserving human dignity and our strategic priority combating global terror american interests and american principles therefore lead in the same direction we will work with others for an african continent that lives in liberty peace and growing prosperity together with our european allies we must help strengthen africa s fragile states help build indigenous capability to secure porous borders and help build up the law enforcement and intelligence infrastructure to deny havens for terrorists an ever more lethal environment exists in africa as local civil wars spread beyond borders to create regional war zones forming coalitions of the willing and cooperative security arrangements are key to confronting these emerging transnational threats africa s great size and diversity requires a security strategy that focuses bilateral engagement and builds coalitions of the willing this administration will focus on three interlocking strategies for the region countries with major impact on their neighborhood such as south africa nigeria kenya and ethiopia are anchors for regional engagement and require focused attention coordination with european allies and international institutions is essential for constructive conflict mediation and successful peace operations and africa s capable reforming states and sub regional organizations must be strengthened as the primary means to address transnational threats on a sustained basis ultimately the path of political and economic freedom presents the surest route to progress in sub saharan africa where most wars are conflicts over material resources and political access often tragically waged on the basis of ethnic and religious difference the transition to the african union with its stated commitment to good governance and a common responsibility for democratic political systems offers opportunities to strengthen democracy on the continent v prevent our enemies from threatening us our allies and our friends with weapons of mass destruction the gravest danger to freedom lies at the crossroads of radicalism and technology when the spread of chemical and biological and nuclear weapons along with ballistic missile technology when that occurs even weak states and small groups could attain a catastrophic power to strike great nations our enemies have declared this very intention and have been caught seeking these terrible weapons they want the capability to blackmail us or to harm us or to harm our friends and we will oppose them with all our power president bush west point new york june NUMBER NUMBER the nature of the cold war threat required the united states with our allies and friends to emphasize deterrence of the enemy s use of force producing a grim strategy of mutual assured destruction with the collapse of the soviet union and the end of the cold war our security environment has undergone profound transformation having moved from confrontation to cooperation as the hallmark of our relationship with russia the dividends are evident an end to the balance of terror that divided us an historic reduction in the nuclear arsenals on both sides and cooperation in areas such as counterterrorism and missile defense that until recently were inconceivable but new deadly challenges have emerged from rogue states and terrorists none of these contemporary threats rival the sheer destructive power that was arrayed against us by the soviet union however the nature and motivations of these new adversaries their determination to obtain destructive powers hitherto available only to the world s strongest states and the greater likelihood that they will use weapons of mass destruction against us make today s security environment more complex and dangerous in the NUMBERs we witnessed the emergence of a small number of rogue states that while different in important ways share a number of attributes these states brutalize their own people and squander their national resources for the personal gain of the rulers display no regard for international law threaten their neighbors and callously violate international treaties to which they are party are determined to acquire weapons of mass destruction along with other advanced military technology to be used as threats or offensively to achieve the aggressive designs of these regimes sponsor terrorism around the globe and reject basic human values and hate the united states and everything for which it stands at the time of the gulf war we acquired irrefutable proof that iraq s designs were not limited to the chemical weapons it had used against iran and its own people but also extended to the acquisition of nuclear weapons and biological agents in the past decade north korea has become the world s principal purveyor of ballistic missiles and has tested increasingly capable missiles while developing its own wmd arsenal other rogue regimes seek nuclear biological and chemical weapons as well these states pursuit of and global trade in such weapons has become a looming threat to all nations we must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction against the united states and our allies and friends our response must take full advantage of strengthened alliances the establishment of new partnerships with former adversaries innovation in the use of military forces modern technologies including the development of an effective missile defense system and increased emphasis on intelligence collection and analysis our comprehensive strategy to combat wmd includes proactive counterproliferation efforts we must deter and defend against the threat before it is unleashed we must ensure that key capabilities detection active and passive defenses and counterforce capabilities are integrated into our defense transformation and our homeland security systems counterproliferation must also be integrated into the doctrine training and equipping of our forces and those of our allies to ensure that we can prevail in any conflict with wmd armed adversaries strengthened nonproliferation efforts to prevent rogue states and terrorists from acquiring the materials technologies and expertise necessary for weapons of mass destruction we will enhance diplomacy arms control multilateral export controls and threat reduction assistance that impede states and terrorists seeking wmd and when necessary interdict enabling technologies and materials we will continue to build coalitions to support these efforts encouraging their increased political and financial support for nonproliferation and threat reduction programs the recent g NUMBER agreement to commit up to NUMBER billion to a global partnership against proliferation marks a major step forward effective consequence management to respond to the effects of wmd use whether by terrorists or hostile states minimizing the effects of wmd use against our people will help deter those who possess such weapons and dissuade those who seek to acquire them by persuading enemies that they cannot attain their desired ends the united states must also be prepared to respond to the effects of wmd use against our forces abroad and to help friends and allies if they are attacked it has taken almost a decade for us to comprehend the true nature of this new threat given the goals of rogue states and terrorists the united states can no longer solely rely on a reactive posture as we have in the past the inability to deter a potential attacker the immediacy of today s threats and the magnitude of potential harm that could be caused by our adversaries choice of weapons do not permit that option we cannot let our enemies strike first in the cold war especially following the cuban missile crisis we faced a generally status quo risk averse adversary deterrence was an effective defense but deterrence based only upon the threat of retaliation is far less likely to work against leaders of rogue states more willing to take risks gambling with the lives of their people and the wealth of their nations in the cold war weapons of mass destruction were considered weapons of last resort whose use risked the destruction of those who used them today our enemies see weapons of mass destruction as weapons of choice for rogue states these weapons are tools of intimidation and military aggression against their neighbors these weapons may also allow these states to attempt to blackmail the united states and our allies to prevent us from deterring or repelling the aggressive behavior of rogue states such states also see these weapons as their best means of overcoming the conventional superiority of the united states traditional concepts of deterrence will not work against a terrorist enemy whose avowed tactics are wanton destruction and the targeting of innocents whose so called soldiers seek martyrdom in death and whose most potent protection is statelessness the overlap between states that sponsor terror and those that pursue wmd compels us to action for centuries international law recognized that nations need not suffer an attack before they can lawfully take action to defend themselves against forces that present an imminent danger of attack legal scholars and international jurists often conditioned the legitimacy of preemption on the existence of an imminent threat most often a visible mobilization of armies navies and air forces preparing to attack we must adapt the concept of imminent threat to the capabilities and objectives of today s adversaries rogue states and terrorists do not seek to attack us using conventional means they know such attacks would fail instead they rely on acts of terrorism and potentially the use of weapons of mass destruction weapons that can be easily concealed and delivered covertly and without warning the targets of these attacks are our military forces and our civilian population in direct violation of one of the principal norms of the law of warfare as was demonstrated by the losses on september NUMBER NUMBER mass civilian casualties is the specific objective of terrorists and these losses would be exponentially more severe if terrorists acquired and used weapons of mass destruction the united states has long maintained the option of preemptive actions to counter a sufficient threat to our national security the greater the threat the greater is the risk of inaction and the more compelling the case for taking anticipatory action to defend ourselves even if uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy s attack to forestall or prevent such hostile acts by our adversaries the united states will if necessary act preemptively the united states will not use force in all cases to preempt emerging threats nor should nations use preemption as a pretext for aggression yet in an age where the enemies of civilization openly and actively seek the world s most destructive technologies the united states cannot remain idle while dangers gather we will always proceed deliberately weighing the consequences of our actions to support preemptive options we will build better more integrated intelligence capabilities to provide timely accurate information on threats wherever they may emerge coordinate closely with allies to form a common assessment of the most dangerous threats and continue to transform our military forces to ensure our ability to conduct rapid and precise operations to achieve decisive results the purpose of our actions will always be to eliminate a specific threat to the united states or our allies and friends the reasons for our actions will be clear the force measured and the cause just vi ignite a new era of global economic growth through free markets and free trade when nations close their markets and opportunity is hoarded by a privileged few no amount no amount of development aid is ever enough when nations respect their people open markets invest in better health and education every dollar of aid every dollar of trade revenue and domestic capital is used more effectively president bush monterrey mexico march NUMBER NUMBER a strong world economy enhances our national security by advancing prosperity and freedom in the rest of the world economic growth supported by free trade and free markets creates new jobs and higher incomes it allows people to lift their lives out of poverty spurs economic and legal reform and the fight against corruption and it reinforces the habits of liberty we will promote economic growth and economic freedom beyond america s shores all governments are responsible for creating their own economic policies and responding to their own economic challenge we will use our economic engagement with other countries to underscore the benefits of policies that generate higher productivity and sustained economic growth including pro growth legal and regulatory policies to encourage business investment innovation and entrepreneurial activity tax policies particularly lower marginal tax rates that improve incentives for work and investment rule of law and intolerance of corruption so that people are confident that they will be able to enjoy the fruits of their economic endeavors strong financial systems that allow capital to be put to its most efficient use sound fiscal policies to support business activity investments in health and education that improve the well being and skills of the labor force and population as a whole and free trade that provides new avenues for growth and fosters the diffusion of technologies and ideas that increase productivity and opportunity the lessons of history are clear market economies not command and control economies with the heavy hand of government are the best way to promote prosperity and reduce poverty policies that further strengthen market incentives and market institutions are relevant for all economies industrialized countries emerging markets and the developing world a return to strong economic growth in europe and japan is vital to u s national security interests we want our allies to have strong economies for their own sake for the sake of the global economy and for the sake of global security european efforts to remove structural barriers in their economies are particularly important in this regard as are japan s efforts to end deflation and address the problems of non performing loans in the japanese banking system we will continue to use our regular consultations with japan and our european partners including through the group of seven g NUMBER to discuss policies they are adopting to promote growth in their economies and support higher global economic growth improving stability in emerging markets is also key to global economic growth international flows of investment capital are needed to expand the productive potential of these economies these flows allow emerging markets and developing countries to make the investments that raise living standards and reduce poverty our long term objective should be a world in which all countries have investment grade credit ratings that allow them access to international capital markets and to invest in their future we are committed to policies that will help emerging markets achieve access to larger capital flows at lower cost to this end we will continue to pursue reforms aimed at reducing uncertainty in financial markets we will work actively with other countries the international monetary fund imf and the private sector to implement the g NUMBER action plan negotiated earlier this year for preventing financial crises and more effectively resolving them when they occur the best way to deal with financial crises is to prevent them from occurring and we have encouraged the imf to improve its efforts doing so we will continue to work with the imf to streamline the policy conditions for its lending and to focus its lending strategy on achieving economic growth through sound fiscal and monetary policy exchange rate policy and financial sector policy the concept of free trade arose as a moral principle even before it became a pillar of economics if you can make something that others value you should be able to sell it to them if others make something that you value you should be able to buy it this is real freedom the freedom for a person or a nation to make a living to promote free trade the unites states has developed a comprehensive strategy seize the global initiative the new global trade negotiations we helped launch at doha in november NUMBER will have an ambitious agenda especially in agriculture manufacturing and services targeted for completion in NUMBER the united states has led the way in completing the accession of china and a democratic taiwan to the world trade organization we will assist russia s preparations to join the wto press regional initiatives the united states and other democracies in the western hemisphere have agreed to create the free trade area of the americas targeted for completion in NUMBER this year the united states will advocate market access negotiations with its partners targeted on agriculture industrial goods services investment and government procurement we will also offer more opportunity to the poorest continent africa starting with full use of the preferences allowed in the african growth and opportunity act and leading to free trade move ahead with bilateral free trade agreements building on the free trade agreement with jordan enacted in NUMBER the administration will work this year to complete free trade agreements with chile and singapore our aim is to achieve free trade agreements with a mix of developed and developing countries in all regions of the world initially central america southern africa morocco and australia will be our principal focal points renew the executive congressional partnership every administration s trade strategy depends on a productive partnership with congress after a gap of NUMBER years the administration reestablished majority support in the congress for trade liberalization by passing trade promotion authority and the other market opening measures for developing countries in the trade act of NUMBER this administration will work with congress to enact new bilateral regional and global trade agreements that will be concluded under the recently passed trade promotion authority promote the connection between trade and development trade policies can help developing countries strengthen property rights competition the rule of law investment the spread of knowledge open societies the efficient allocation of resources and regional integration all leading to growth opportunity and confidence in developing countries the united states is implementing the africa growth and opportunity act to provide market access for nearly all goods produced in the NUMBER countries of sub saharan africa we will make more use of this act and its equivalent for the caribbean basin and continue to work with multilateral and regional institutions to help poorer countries take advantage of these opportunities beyond market access the most important area where trade intersects with poverty is in public health we will ensure that the wto intellectual property rules are flexible enough to allow developing nations to gain access to critical medicines for extraordinary dangers like hiv aids tuberculosis and malaria enforce trade agreements and laws against unfair practices commerce depends on the rule of law international trade depends on enforceable agreements our top priorities are to resolve ongoing disputes with the european union canada and mexico and to make a global effort to address new technology science and health regulations that needlessly impede farm exports and improved agriculture laws against unfair trade practices are often abused but the international community must be able to address genuine concerns about government subsidies and dumping international industrial espionage which undermines fair competition must be detected and deterred help domestic industries and workers adjust there is a sound statutory framework for these transitional safeguards which we have used in the agricultural sector and which we are using this year to help the american steel industry the benefits of free trade depend upon the enforcement of fair trading practices these safeguards help ensure that the benefits of free trade do not come at the expense of american workers trade adjustment assistance will help workers adapt to the change and dynamism of open markets protect the environment and workers the united states must foster economic growth in ways that will provide a better life along with widening prosperity we will incorporate labor and environmental concerns into u s trade negotiations creating a healthy network between multilateral environmental agreements with the wto and use the international labor organization trade preference programs and trade talks to improve working conditions in conjunction with freer trade enhance energy security we will strengthen our own energy security and the shared prosperity of the global economy by working with our allies trading partners and energy producers to expand the sources and types of global energy supplied especially in the western hemisphere africa central asia and the caspian region we will also continue to work with our partners to develop cleaner and more energy efficient technologies economic growth should be accompanied by global efforts to stabilize greenhouse gas concentrations associated with this growth containing them at a level that prevents dangerous human interference with the global climate our overall objective is to reduce america s greenhouse gas emissions relative to the size of our economy cutting such emissions per unit of economic activity by NUMBER percent over the next NUMBER years by the year NUMBER our strategies for attaining this goal will be to remain committed to the basic u n framework convention for international cooperation obtain agreements with key industries to cut emissions of some of the most potent greenhouse gases and give transferable credits to companies that can show real cuts develop improved standards for measuring and registering emission reductions promote renewable energy production and clean coal technology as well as nuclear power which produces no greenhouse gas emissions while also improving fuel economy for u s cars and trucks increase spending on research and new conservation technologies to a total of NUMBER NUMBER billion the largest sum being spent on climate change by any country in the world and a NUMBER million increase over last year s budget and assist developing countries especially the major greenhouse gas emitters such as china and india so that they will have the tools and resources to join this effort and be able to grow along a cleaner and better path vii expand the circle of development by opening societies and building the infrastructure of democracy in world war ii we fought to make the world safer then worked to rebuild it as we wage war today to keep the world safe from terror we must also work to make the world a better place for all its citizens president bush washington d c inter american development bank march NUMBER NUMBER a world where some live in comfort and plenty while half of the human race lives on less than NUMBER a day is neither just nor stable including all of the world s poor in an expanding circle of development and opportunity is a moral imperative and one of the top priorities of u s international policy decades of massive development assistance have failed to spur economic growth in the poorest countries worse development aid has often served to prop up failed policies relieving the pressure for reform and perpetuating misery results of aid are typically measured in dollars spent by donors not in the rates of growth and poverty reduction achieved by recipients these are the indicators of a failed strategy working with other nations the united states is confronting this failure we forged a new consensus at the u n conference on financing for development in monterrey that the objectives of assistance and the strategies to achieve those objectives must change this administration s goal is to help unleash the productive potential of individuals in all nations sustained growth and poverty reduction is impossible without the right national policies where governments have implemented real policy changes we will provide significant new levels of assistance the united states and other developed countries should set an ambitious and specific target to double the size of the world s poorest economies within a decade the united states government will pursue these major strategies to achieve this goal provide resources to aid countries that have met the challenge of national reform we propose a NUMBER percent increase in the core development assistance given by the united states while continuing our present programs including humanitarian assistance based on need alone these billions of new dollars will form a new millennium challenge account for projects in countries whose governments rule justly invest in their people and encourage economic freedom governments must fight corruption respect basic human rights embrace the rule of law invest in health care and education follow responsible economic policies and enable entrepreneurship the millennium challenge account will reward countries that have demonstrated real policy change and challenge those that have not to implement reforms improve the effectiveness of the world bank and other development banks in raising living standards the united states is committed to a comprehensive reform agenda for making the world bank and the other multilateral development banks more effective in improving the lives of the world s poor we have reversed the downward trend in u s contributions and proposed an NUMBER percent increase in the u s contributions to the international development association ida the world bank s fund for the poorest countries and the african development fund the key to raising living standards and reducing poverty around the world is increasing productivity growth especially in the poorest countries we will continue to press the multilateral development banks to focus on activities that increase economic productivity such as improvements in education health rule of law and private sector development every project every loan every grant must be judged by how much it will increase productivity growth in developing countries insist upon measurable results to ensure that development assistance is actually making a difference in the lives of the world s poor when it comes to economic development what really matters is that more children are getting a better education more people have access to health care and clean water or more workers can find jobs to make a better future for their families we have a moral obligation to measure the success of our development assistance by whether it is delivering results for this reason we will continue to demand that our own development assistance as well as assistance from the multilateral development banks has measurable goals and concrete benchmarks for achieving those goals thanks to u s leadership the recent ida replenishment agreement will establish a monitoring and evaluation system that measures recipient countries progress for the first time donors can link a portion of their contributions to ida to the achievement of actual development results and part of the u s contribution is linked in this way we will strive to make sure that the world bank and other multilateral development banks build on this progress so that a focus on results is an integral part of everything that these institutions do increase the amount of development assistance that is provided in the form of grants instead of loans greater use of results based grants is the best way to help poor countries make productive investments particularly in the social sectors without saddling them with ever larger debt burdens as a result of u s leadership the recent ida agreement provided for significant increases in grant funding for the poorest countries for education hiv aids health nutrition water sanitation and other human needs our goal is to build on that progress by increasing the use of grants at the other multilateral development banks we will also challenge universities nonprofits and the private sector to match government efforts by using grants to support development projects that show results open societies to commerce and investment trade and investment are the real engines of economic growth even if government aid increases most money for development must come from trade domestic capital and foreign investment an effective strategy must try to expand these flows as well free markets and free trade are key priorities of our national security strategy secure public health the scale of the public health crisis in poor countries is enormous in countries afflicted by epidemics and pandemics like hiv aids malaria and tuberculosis growth and development will be threatened until these scourges can be contained resources from the developed world are necessary but will be effective only with honest governance which supports prevention programs and provides effective local infrastructure the united states has strongly backed the new global fund for hiv aids organized by u n secretary general kofi annan and its focus on combining prevention with a broad strategy for treatment and care the united states already contributes more than twice as much money to such efforts as the next largest donor if the global fund demonstrates its promise we will be ready to give even more emphasize education literacy and learning are the foundation of democracy and development only about NUMBER percent of world bank resources are devoted to education this proportion should grow the united states will increase its own funding for education assistance by at least NUMBER percent with an emphasis on improving basic education and teacher training in africa the united states can also bring information technology to these societies many of whose education systems have been devastated by aids continue to aid agricultural development new technologies including biotechnology have enormous potential to improve crop yields in developing countries while using fewer pesticides and less water using sound science the united states should help bring these benefits to the NUMBER million people including NUMBER million children who still suffer from hunger and malnutrition viii develop agendas for cooperative action with the other main centers of global power we have our best chance since the rise of the nation state in the NUMBERth century to build a world where the great powers compete in peace instead of prepare for war president bush west point new york june NUMBER NUMBER america will implement its strategies by organizing coalitions as broad as practicable of states able and willing to promote a balance of power that favors freedom effective coalition leadership requires clear priorities an appreciation of others interests and consistent consultations among partners with a spirit of humility there is little of lasting consequence that the united states can accomplish in the world without the sustained cooperation of its allies and friends in canada and europe europe is also the seat of two of the strongest and most able international institutions in the world the north atlantic treaty organization nato which has since its inception been the fulcrum of transatlantic and inter european security and the european union eu our partner in opening world trade the attacks of september NUMBER were also an attack on nato as nato itself recognized when it invoked its article v self defense clause for the first time nato s core mission collective defense of the transatlantic alliance of democracies remains but nato must develop new structures and capabilities to carry out that mission under new circumstances nato must build a capability to field at short notice highly mobile specially trained forces whenever they are needed to respond to a threat against any member of the alliance the alliance must be able to act wherever our interests are threatened creating coalitions under nato s own mandate as well as contributing to mission based coalitions to achieve this we must expand nato s membership to those democratic nations willing and able to share the burden of defending and advancing our common interests ensure that the military forces of nato nations have appropriate combat contributions to make in coalition warfare develop planning processes to enable those contributions to become effective multinational fighting forces take advantage of the technological opportunities and economies of scale in our defense spending to transform nato military forces so that they dominate potential aggressors and diminish our vulnerabilities streamline and increase the flexibility of command structures to meet new operational demands and the associated requirements of training integrating and experimenting with new force configurations and maintain the ability to work and fight together as allies even as we take the necessary steps to transform and modernize our forces if nato succeeds in enacting these changes the rewards will be a partnership as central to the security and interests of its member states as was the case during the cold war we will sustain a common perspective on the threats to our societies and improve our ability to take common action in defense of our nations and their interests at the same time we welcome our european allies efforts to forge a greater foreign policy and defense identity with the eu and commit ourselves to close consultations to ensure that these developments work with nato we cannot afford to lose this opportunity to better prepare the family of transatlantic democracies for the challenges to come the attacks of september NUMBER energized america s asian alliances australia invoked the anzus treaty to declare the september NUMBER was an attack on australia itself following that historic decision with the dispatch of some of the world s finest combat forces for operation enduring freedom japan and the republic of korea provided unprecedented levels of military logistical support within weeks of the terrorist attack we have deepened cooperation on counter terrorism with our alliance partners in thailand and the philippines and received invaluable assistance from close friends like singapore and new zealand the war against terrorism has proven that america s alliances in asia not only underpin regional peace and stability but are flexible and ready to deal with new challenges to enhance our asian alliances and friendships we will look to japan to continue forging a leading role in regional and global affairs based on our common interests our common values and our close defense and diplomatic cooperation work with south korea to maintain vigilance towards the north while preparing our alliance to make contributions to the broader stability of the region over the longer term build on NUMBER years of u s australian alliance cooperation as we continue working together to resolve regional and global problems as we have so many times from the battle of leyte gulf to tora bora maintain forces in the region that reflect our commitments to our allies our requirements our technological advances and the strategic environment and build on stability provided by these alliances as well as with institutions such as asean and the asia pacific economic cooperation forum to develop a mix of regional and bilateral strategies to manage change in this dynamic region we are attentive to the possible renewal of old patterns of great power competition several potential great powers are now in the midst of internal transition most importantly russia india and china in all three cases recent developments have encouraged our hope that a truly global consensus about basic principles is slowly taking shape with russia we are already building a new strategic relationship based on a central reality of the twenty first century the united states and russia are no longer strategic adversaries the moscow treaty on strategic reductions is emblematic of this new reality and reflects a critical change in russian thinking that promises to lead to productive long term relations with the euro atlantic community and the united states russia s top leaders have a realistic assessment of their country s current weakness and the policies internal and external needed to reverse those weaknesses they understand increasingly that cold war approaches do not serve their national interests and that russian and american strategic interests overlap in many areas united states policy seeks to use this turn in russian thinking to refocus our relationship on emerging and potential common interests and challenges we are broadening our already extensive cooperation in the global war on terrorism we are facilitating russia s entry into the world trade organization without lowering standards for accession to promote beneficial bilateral trade and investment relations we have created the nato russia council with the goal of deepening security cooperation among russia our european allies and ourselves we will continue to bolster the independence and stability of the states of the former soviet union in the belief that a prosperous and stable neighborhood will reinforce russia s growing commitment to integration into the euro atlantic community at the same time we are realistic about the differences that still divide us from russia and about the time and effort it will take to build an enduring strategic partnership lingering distrust of our motives and policies by key russian elites slows improvement in our relations russia s uneven commitment to the basic values of free market democracy and dubious record in combating the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction remain matters of great concern russia s very weakness limits the opportunities for cooperation nevertheless those opportunities are vastly greater now than in recent years or even decades the united states has undertaken a transformation in its bilateral relationship with india based on a conviction that u s interests require a strong relationship with india we are the two largest democracies committed to political freedom protected by representative government india is moving toward greater economic freedom as well we have a common interest in the free flow of commerce including through the vital sea lanes of the indian ocean finally we share an interest in fighting terrorism and in creating a strategically stable asia differences remain including over the development of india s nuclear and missile programs and the pace of india s economic reforms but while in the past these concerns may have dominated our thinking about india today we start with a view of india as a growing world power with which we have common strategic interests through a strong partnership with india we can best address any differences and shape a dynamic future the united states relationship with china is an important part of our strategy to promote a stable peaceful and prosperous asia pacific region we welcome the emergence of a strong peaceful and prosperous china the democratic development of china is crucial to that future yet a quarter century after beginning the process of shedding the worst features of the communist legacy china s leaders have not yet made the next series of fundamental choices about the character of their state in pursuing advanced military capabilities that can threaten its neighbors in the asia pacific region china is following an outdated path that in the end will hamper its own pursuit of national greatness in time china will find that social and political freedom is the only source of that greatness the united states seeks a constructive relationship with a changing china we already cooperate well where our interests overlap including the current war on terrorism and in promoting stability on the korean peninsula likewise we have coordinated on the future of afghanistan and have initiated a comprehensive dialogue on counter terrorism and similar transitional concerns shared health and environmental threats such as the spread of hiv aids challenge us to promote jointly the welfare of our citizens addressing these transnational threats will challenge china to become more open with information promote the development of civil society and enhance individual human rights china has begun to take the road to political openness permitting many personal freedoms and conducting village level elections yet remains strongly committed to national one party rule by the communist party to make that nation truly accountable to its citizen s needs and aspirations however much work remains to be done only by allowing the chinese people to think assemble and worship freely can china reach its full potential our important trade relationship will benefit from china s entry into the world trade organization which will create more export opportunities and ultimately more jobs for american farmers workers and companies china is our fourth largest trading partner with over NUMBER billion in annual two way trade the power of market principles and the wto s requirements for transparency and accountability will advance openness and the rule of law in china to help establish basic protections for commerce and for citizens there are however other areas in which we have profound disagreements our commitment to the self defense of taiwan under the taiwan relations act is one human rights is another we expect china to adhere to its nonproliferation commitments we will work to narrow differences where they exist but not allow them to preclude cooperation where we agree the events of september NUMBER NUMBER fundamentally changed the context for relations between the united states and other main centers of global power and opened vast new opportunities with our long standing allies in europe and asia and with leaders in russia india and china we must develop active agendas of cooperation lest these relationships become routine and unproductive every agency of the united states government shares the challenge we can build fruitful habits of consultation quiet argument sober analysis and common action in the long term these are the practices that will sustain the supremacy of our common principles and keep open the path of progress ix transform america s national security institutions to meet the challenges and opportunities of the twenty first century terrorists attacked a symbol of american prosperity they did not touch its source america is successful because of the hard work creativity and enterprise of our people president bush washington d c joint session of congress september NUMBER NUMBER the major institutions of american national security were designed in a different era to meet different requirements all of them must be transformed it is time to reaffirm the essential role of american military strength we must build and maintain our defenses beyond challenge our military s highest priority is to defend the united states to do so effectively our military must assure our allies and friends dissuade future military competition deter threats against u s interests allies and friends and decisively defeat any adversary if deterrence fails the unparalleled strength of the united states armed forces and their forward presence have maintained the peace in some of the world s most strategically vital regions however the threats and enemies we must confront have changed and so must our forces a military structured to deter massive cold war era armies must be transformed to focus more on how an adversary might fight rather than where and when a war might occur we will channel our energies to overcome a host of operational challenges the presence of american forces overseas is one of the most profound symbols of the u s commitments to allies and friends through our willingness to use force in our own defense and in defense of others the united states demonstrates its resolve to maintain a balance of power that favors freedom to contend with uncertainty and to meet the many security challenges we face the united states will require bases and stations within and beyond western europe and northeast asia as well as temporary access arrangements for the long distance deployment of u s forces before the war in afghanistan that area was low on the list of major planning contingencies yet in a very short time we had to operate across the length and breadth of that remote nation using every branch of the armed forces we must prepare for more such deployments by developing assets such as advanced remote sensing long range precision strike capabilities and transformed maneuver and expeditionary forces this broad portfolio of military capabilities must also include the ability to defend the homeland conduct information operations ensure u s access to distant theaters and protect critical u s infrastructure and assets in outer space innovation within the armed forces will rest on experimentation with new approaches to warfare strengthening joint operations exploiting u s intelligence advantages and taking full advantage of science and technology we must also transform the way the department of defense is run especially in financial management and recruitment and retention finally while maintaining near term readiness and the ability to fight the war on terrorism the goal must be to provide the president with a wider range of military options to discourage aggression or any form of coercion against the united states our allies and our friends we know from history that deterrence can fail and we know from experience that some enemies cannot be deterred the united states must and will maintain the capability to defeat any attempt by an enemy whether a state or non state actor to impose its will on the united states our allies or our friends we will maintain the forces sufficient to support our obligations and to defend freedom our forces will be strong enough to dissuade potential adversaries from pursuing a military build up in hopes of surpassing or equaling the power of the united states intelligence and how we use it is our first line of defense against terrorists and the threat posed by hostile states designed around the priority of gathering enormous information about a massive fixed object the soviet bloc the intelligence community is coping with the challenge of following a far more complex and elusive set of targets we must transform our intelligence capabilities and build new ones to keep pace with the nature of these threats intelligence must be appropriately integrated with our defense and law enforcement systems and coordinated with our allies and friends we need to protect the capabilities we have so that we do not arm our enemies with the knowledge of how best to surprise us those who would harm us also seek the benefit of surprise to limit our prevention and response options and to maximize injury we must strengthen intelligence warning and analysis to provide integrated threat assessments for national and homeland security since the threats inspired by foreign governments and groups may be conducted inside the united states we must also ensure the proper fusion of information between intelligence and law enforcement initiatives in this area will include strengthening the authority of the director of central intelligence to lead the development and actions of the nation s foreign intelligence capabilities establishing a new framework for intelligence warning that provides seamless and integrated warning across the spectrum of threats facing the nation and our allies continuing to develop new methods of collecting information to sustain our intelligence advantage investing in future capabilities while working to protect them through a more vigorous effort to prevent the compromise of intelligence capabilities and collecting intelligence against the terrorist danger across the government with all source analysis as the united states government relies on the armed forces to defend america s interests it must rely on diplomacy to interact with other nations we will ensure that the department of state receives funding sufficient to ensure the success of american diplomacy the state department takes the lead in managing our bilateral relationships with other governments and in this new era its people and institutions must be able to interact equally adroitly with non governmental organizations and international institutions officials trained mainly in international politics must also extend their reach to understand complex issues of domestic governance around the world including public health education law enforcement the judiciary and public diplomacy our diplomats serve at the front line of complex negotiations civil wars and other humanitarian catastrophes as humanitarian relief requirements are better understood we must also be able to help build police forces court systems and legal codes local and provincial government institutions and electoral systems effective international cooperation is needed to accomplish these goals backed by american readiness to play our part just as our diplomatic institutions must adapt so that we can reach out to others we also need a different and more comprehensive approach to public information efforts that can help people around the world learn about and understand america the war on terrorism is not a clash of civilizations it does however reveal the clash inside a civilization a battle for the future of the muslim world this is a struggle of ideas and this is an area where america must excel we will take the actions necessary to ensure that our efforts to meet our global security commitments and protect americans are not impaired by the potential for investigations inquiry or prosecution by the international criminal court icc whose jurisdiction does not extend to americans and which we do not accept we will work together with other nations to avoid complications in our military operations and cooperation through such mechanisms as multilateral and bilateral agreements that will protect u s nationals from the icc we will implement fully the american servicemembers protection act whose provisions are intended to ensure and enhance the protection of u s personnel and officials we will make hard choices in the coming year and beyond to ensure the right level and allocation of government spending on national security the united states government must strengthen its defenses to win this war at home our most important priority is to protect the homeland for the american people today the distinction between domestic and foreign affairs is diminishing in a globalized world events beyond america s borders have a greater impact inside them our society must be open to people ideas and goods from across the globe the characteristics we most cherish our freedom our cities our systems of movement and modern life are vulnerable to terrorism this vulnerability will persist long after we bring to justice those responsible for the september eleventh attacks as time passes individuals may gain access to means of destruction that until now could be wielded only by armies fleets and squadrons this is a new condition of life we will adjust to it and thrive in spite of it in exercising our leadership we will respect the values judgment and interests of our friends and partners still we will be prepared to act apart when our interests and unique responsibilities require when we disagree on particulars we will explain forthrightly the grounds for our concerns and strive to forge viable alternatives we will not allow such disagreements to obscure our determination to secure together with our allies and our friends our shared fundamental interests and values ultimately the foundation of american strength is at home it is in the skills of our people the dynamism of our economy and the resilience of our institutions a diverse modern society has inherent ambitious entrepreneurial energy our strength comes from what we do with that energy that is where our national security begins ,0
 g geege schuman geege barrera org writes g surely you meant political extremes and not politics baisley g help me out here ok but only if you also meant religious and alcoholic extremes when the political canvassers come to my door during the campaigns i always wonder why cigarette packages are labelled with warnings whereas political brochures are not the statistics clearly show which is the greater more senseless and more preventable killer r russell turpin deafbox hotmail com writes r it s difficult to measure which is the greater liability in a r potential mate religiosity or alcoholism g or politics gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
glm whereas political brochures are not the statistics clearly show glm which is the greater more senseless and more preventable killer so outside of the occasional hit by a mafia boy where s the killing if you said mind numbing rights destroying cynic making force i d agree but does politics really kill i m bitter atm two reasons mostly NUMBER i was listening to what i heard being the first amendment foundation on npr releasing a poll noting that their very unscientific poll found that half the population thinks the first amendment goes too far and their quote was NUMBER in NUMBER but i m finding sources of NUMBER in NUMBER of the population don t even know what rights are guaranteed in the first amendment NUMBER i have a paper due that will make or break my law school career i hate being a forced sheep baaaa r russell turpin deafbox hotmail com writes glm r it s difficult to measure which is the greater liability in a glm r potential mate religiosity or alcoholism glm g or politics best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
and of course i forget the link that i did find URL neither npr nor the first amendment foundation seem to have the article i was looking for declaring the study even if its half true its still frightening it makes me want to pass out cato bibles best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
gary lawrence murphy ok but only if you also meant religious and alcoholic extremes since it was my quip i ll point out that i used the term alcoholism implying addiction i drink i m not an alcoholic most people who drink don t go to aa meetings most people who go to aa meetings do try very hard not to drink as to religion i think it is harmful and risky in almost any degree were i single i might consider potential mates who partook of the less irrational or more light hearted religions a unitarian or buddhist might be an example of the first a wiccan of the second but someone who is both irrational and serious about that irrationality strikes me as a bad choice of partner moreso than someone who was addicted to some drug alcoholics and drug addicts at least have the sense to battle their problem and to keep their children from suffering it the religious revel in their irrationality and want to raise their children in it that s a difficult difference for two parents to reconcile fortunately i am long and happily enamored of someone who has no religious tendencies _________________________________________________________________ send and receive hotmail on your mobile device URL ,0
you around c i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
 help me out here you around barely but don t call me shirley i m sleeping with one eye open i wouldn t have married me if i d known how extremely shallow my politics are the ward lurks in wisteria s maze cheers wayne ,0
 free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies out of poverty i m not a socio political history buff does anybody have some clear examples original message from rohit khare khare alumni caltech edu to fork spamassassin taint org sent friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject sed s united states roman empire g a world where some live in comfort and plenty while half of the human race lives on less than NUMBER a day is neither just nor stable absolutely correct perhaps the most fundamental thing to realize about life on earth today the following is a fascinating document of official government policy that bears close reading it is the aspirations of a wonderful nation in an imperfect world the war on terrorism is not a clash of civilizations it does however reveal the clash inside a civilization a battle for the future of the muslim world this is a struggle of ideas and this is an area where america must excel i was recently at a lecture about the surprising success of radio sawa our new music and news channel for NUMBER NUMBER year old arabs it s NUMBER in practically every market it s entered nearing NUMBER listenership in amman and it s even beginning to be trusted for news well past bbc and taking share from every other government broadcaster it is as hard to imagine america losing a war of ideas in the long term as it is to imagine america making any headway at all in the short term many of you may disagree but i found the document below surprisingly centrist if you know the code you can hear clearly partisan tones re icc taiwan relations act etc but still this is as much a democratic platform as not africa and aids take up more mindshare than i feared they might as you read replace united states with roman empire and it may make as much sense in the long view of history i don t know how proud to be about that but it is telling sometime i daydream that the president might sit down with the nation with perotista flip charts and explain to our citizens the sheer vastness of our NUMBER military installations overseas and what they do for us it would be a powerful education on how engaged we are in the world around us heck i d love to see a real time map of federal expenditures around the globe a softly glowing necklace of embassies carriers arctic research stations hotels golf courses warehouses libraries clinics and all the rest of the influence a trillion dollars here or there can buy of course this still doesn t leave me any more comfortable with the real news in this document the bush doctrine for pre emptive strikes i d sooner repeal the church amendments on covert action than permit such a principle to be loosed upon the world rohit september NUMBER NUMBER full text bush s national security strategy following is the full text of president bush s new national security strategy the document entitled the national security strategy of the united states will soon be transmitted to congress as a declaration of the administration s policy introduction the great struggles of the twentieth century between liberty and totalitarianism ended with a decisive victory for the forces of freedom and a single sustainable model for national success freedom democracy and free enterprise in the twenty first century only nations that share a commitment to protecting basic human rights and guaranteeing political and economic freedom will be able to unleash the potential of their people and assure their future prosperity people everywhere want to say what they think choose who will govern them worship as they please educate their children male and female own property and enjoy the benefits of their labor these values of freedom are right and true for every person in every society and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom loving people across the globe and across the ages today the united states enjoys a position of unparalleled military strength and great economic and political influence in keeping with our heritage and principles we do not use our strength to press for unilateral advantage we seek instead to create a balance of power that favors human freedom conditions in which all nations and all societies can choose for themselves the rewards and challenges of political and economic liberty by making the world safer we allow the people of the world to make their own lives better we will defend this just peace against threats from terrorists and tyrants we will preserve the peace by building good relations among the great powers we will extend the peace by encouraging free and open societies on every continent defending our nation against its enemies is the first and fundamental commitment of the federal government today that task has changed dramatically enemies in the past needed great armies and great industrial capabilities to endanger america now shadowy networks of individuals can bring great chaos and suffering to our shores for less than it costs to purchase a single tank terrorists are organized to penetrate open societies and to turn the power of modern technologies against us to defeat this threat we must make use of every tool in our arsenal from better homeland defenses and law enforcement to intelligence and cutting off terrorist financing the war against terrorists of global reach is a global enterprise of uncertain duration america will help nations that need our assistance in combating terror and america will hold to account nations that are compromised by terror because the allies of terror are the enemies of civilization the united states and countries cooperating with us must not allow the terrorists to develop new home bases together we will seek to deny them sanctuary at every turn the gravest danger our nation faces lies at the crossroads of radicalism and technology our enemies have openly declared that they are seeking weapons of mass destruction and evidence indicates that they are doing so with determination the united states will not allow these efforts to succeed we will build defenses against ballistic missiles and other means of delivery we will cooperate with other nations to deny contain and curtail our enemies efforts to acquire dangerous technologies and as a matter of common sense and self defense america will act against such emerging threats before they are fully formed we cannot defend america and our friends by hoping for the best so we must be prepared to defeat our enemies plans using the best intelligence and proceeding with deliberation history will judge harshly those who saw this coming danger but failed to act in the new world we have entered the only path to safety is the path of action as we defend the peace we will also take advantage of an historic opportunity to preserve the peace today the international community has the best chance since the rise of the nation state in the seventeenth century to build a world where great powers compete in peace instead of continually prepare for war today the world s great powers find ourselves on the same side united by common dangers of terrorist violence and chaos the united states will build on these common interests to promote global security we are also increasingly united by common values russia is in the midst of a hopeful transition reaching for its democratic future and a partner in the war on terror chinese leaders are discovering that economic freedom is the only source of national wealth in time they will find that social and political freedom is the only source of national greatness america will encourage the advancement of democracy and economic openness in both nations because these are the best foundations for domestic stability and international order we will strongly resist aggression from other great powers even as we welcome their peaceful pursuit of prosperity trade and cultural advancement finally the united states will use this moment of opportunity to extend the benefits of freedom across the globe we will actively work to bring the hope of democracy development free markets and free trade to every corner of the world the events of september NUMBER NUMBER taught us that weak states like afghanistan can pose as great a danger to our national interests as strong states poverty does not make poor people into terrorists and murderers yet poverty weak institutions and corruption can make weak states vulnerable to terrorist networks and drug cartels within their borders the united states will stand beside any nation determined to build a better future by seeking the rewards of liberty for its people free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies out of poverty so the united states will work with individual nations entire regions and the entire global trading community to build a world that trades in freedom and therefore grows in prosperity the united states will deliver greater development assistance through the new millennium challenge account to nations that govern justly invest in their people and encourage economic freedom we will also continue to lead the world in efforts to reduce the terrible toll of aids and other infectious diseases in building a balance of power that favors freedom the united states is guided by the conviction that all nations have important responsibilities nations that enjoy freedom must actively fight terror nations that depend on international stability must help prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction nations that seek international aid must govern themselves wisely so that aid is well spent for freedom to thrive accountability must be expected and required we are also guided by the conviction that no nation can build a safer better world alone alliances and multilateral institutions can multiply the strength of freedom loving nations the united states is committed to lasting institutions like the united nations the world trade organization the organization of american states and nato as well as other long standing alliances coalitions of the willing can augment these permanent institutions in all cases international obligations are to be taken seriously they are not to be undertaken symbolically to rally support for an ideal without furthering its attainment freedom is the non negotiable demand of human dignity the birthright of every person in every civilization throughout history freedom has been threatened by war and terror it has been challenged by the clashing wills of powerful states and the evil designs of tyrants and it has been tested by widespread poverty and disease today humanity holds in its hands the opportunity to further freedom s triumph over all these foes the united states welcomes our responsibility to lead in this great mission i overview of america s international strategy our nation s cause has always been larger than our nation s defense we fight as we always fight for a just peace a peace that favors liberty we will defend the peace against the threats from terrorists and tyrants we will preserve the peace by building good relations among the great powers and we will extend the peace by encouraging free and open societies on every continent president bush west point new york june NUMBER NUMBER the united states possesses unprecedented and unequaled strength and influence in the world sustained by faith in the principles of liberty and the value of a free society this position comes with unparalleled responsibilities obligations and opportunity the great strength of this nation must be used to promote a balance of power that favors freedom for most of the twentieth century the world was divided by a great struggle over ideas destructive totalitarian visions versus freedom and equality that great struggle is over the militant visions of class nation and race which promised utopia and delivered misery have been defeated and discredited america is now threatened less by conquering states than we are by failing ones we are menaced less by fleets and armies than by catastrophic technologies in the hands of the embittered few we must defeat these threats to our nation allies and friends this is also a time of opportunity for america we will work to translate this moment of influence into decades of peace prosperity and liberty the u s national security strategy will be based on a distinctly american internationalism that reflects the union of our values and our national interests the aim of this strategy is to help make the world not just safer but better our goals on the path to progress are clear political and economic freedom peaceful relations with other states and respect for human dignity and this path is not america s alone it is open to all to achieve these goals the united states will champion aspirations for human dignity strengthen alliances to defeat global terrorism and work to prevent attacks against us and our friends work with others to defuse regional conflicts prevent our enemies from threatening us our allies and our friends with weapons of mass destruction ignite a new era of global economic growth through free markets and free trade expand the circle of development by opening societies and building the infrastructure of democracy develop agendas for cooperative action with other main centers of global power and transform america s national security institutions to meet the challenges and opportunities of the twenty first century ii champion aspirations for human dignity some worry that it is somehow undiplomatic or impolite to speak the language of right and wrong i disagree different circumstances require different methods but not different moralities president bush west point new york june NUMBER NUMBER in pursuit of our goals our first imperative is to clarify what we stand for the united states must defend liberty and justice because these principles are right and true for all people everywhere no nation owns these aspirations and no nation is exempt from them fathers and mothers in all societies want their children to be educated and to live free from poverty and violence no people on earth yearn to be oppressed aspire to servitude or eagerly await the midnight knock of the secret police america must stand firmly for the nonnegotiable demands of human dignity the rule of law limits on the absolute power of the state free speech freedom of worship equal justice respect for women religious and ethnic tolerance and respect for private property these demands can be met in many ways america s constitution has served us well many other nations with different histories and cultures facing different circumstances have successfully incorporated these core principles into their own systems of governance history has not been kind to those nations which ignored or flouted the rights and aspirations of their people our own history is a long struggle to live up to our ideals but even in our worst moments the principles enshrined in the declaration of independence were there to guide us as a result america is not just a stronger but is a freer and more just society today these ideals are a lifeline to lonely defenders of liberty and when openings arrive we can encourage change as we did in central and eastern europe between NUMBER and NUMBER or in belgrade in NUMBER when we see democratic processes take hold among our friends in taiwan or in the republic of korea and see elected leaders replace generals in latin america and africa we see examples of how authoritarian systems can evolve marrying local history and traditions with the principles we all cherish embodying lessons from our past and using the opportunity we have today the national security strategy of the united states must start from these core beliefs and look outward for possibilities to expand liberty our principles will guide our government s decisions about international cooperation the character of our foreign assistance and the allocation of resources they will guide our actions and our words in international bodies we will speak out honestly about violations of the nonnegotiable demands of human dignity using our voice and vote in international institutions to advance freedom use our foreign aid to promote freedom and support those who struggle non violently for it ensuring that nations moving toward democracy are rewarded for the steps they take make freedom and the development of democratic institutions key themes in our bilateral relations seeking solidarity and cooperation from other democracies while we press governments that deny human rights to move toward a better future and take special efforts to promote freedom of religion and conscience and defend it from encroachment by repressive governments we will champion the cause of human dignity and oppose those who resist it iii strengthen alliances to defeat global terrorism and work to prevent attacks against us and our friends just three days removed from these events americans do not yet have the distance of history but our responsibility to history is already clear to answer these attacks and rid the world of evil war has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder this nation is peaceful but fierce when stirred to anger the conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others it will end in a way and at an hour of our choosing president bush washington d c the national cathedral september NUMBER NUMBER the united states of america is fighting a war against terrorists of global reach the enemy is not a single political regime or person or religion or ideology the enemy is terrorism premeditated politically motivated violence perpetrated against innocents in many regions legitimate grievances prevent the emergence of a lasting peace such grievances deserve to be and must be addressed within a political process but no cause justifies terror the united states will make no concessions to terrorist demands and strike no deals with them we make no distinction between terrorists and those who knowingly harbor or provide aid to them the struggle against global terrorism is different from any other war in our history it will be fought on many fronts against a particularly elusive enemy over an extended period of time progress will come through the persistent accumulation of successes some seen some unseen today our enemies have seen the results of what civilized nations can and will do against regimes that harbor support and use terrorism to achieve their political goals afghanistan has been liberated coalition forces continue to hunt down the taliban and al qaida but it is not only this battlefield on which we will engage terrorists thousands of trained terrorists remain at large with cells in north america south america europe africa the middle east and across asia our priority will be first to disrupt and destroy terrorist organizations of global reach and attack their leadership command control and communications material support and finances this will have a disabling effect upon the terrorists ability to plan and operate we will continue to encourage our regional partners to take up a coordinated effort that isolates the terrorists once the regional campaign localizes the threat to a particular state we will help ensure the state has the military law enforcement political and financial tools necessary to finish the task the united states will continue to work with our allies to disrupt the financing of terrorism we will identify and block the sources of funding for terrorism freeze the assets of terrorists and those who support them deny terrorists access to the international financial system protect legitimate charities from being abused by terrorists and prevent the movement of terrorists assets through alternative financial networks however this campaign need not be sequential to be effective the cumulative effect across all regions will help achieve the results we seek we will disrupt and destroy terrorist organizations by direct and continuous action using all the elements of national and international power our immediate focus will be those terrorist organizations of global reach and any terrorist or state sponsor of terrorism which attempts to gain or use weapons of mass destruction wmd or their precursors defending the united states the american people and our interests at home and abroad by identifying and destroying the threat before it reaches our borders while the united states will constantly strive to enlist the support of the international community we will not hesitate to act alone if necessary to exercise our right of self defense by acting preemptively against such terrorists to prevent them from doing harm against our people and our country and denying further sponsorship support and sanctuary to terrorists by convincing or compelling states to accept their sovereign responsibilities we will also wage a war of ideas to win the battle against international terrorism this includes using the full influence of the united states and working closely with allies and friends to make clear that all acts of terrorism are illegitimate so that terrorism will be viewed in the same light as slavery piracy or genocide behavior that no respectable government can condone or support and all must oppose supporting moderate and modern government especially in the muslim world to ensure that the conditions and ideologies that promote terrorism do not find fertile ground in any nation diminishing the underlying conditions that spawn terrorism by enlisting the international community to focus its efforts and resources on areas most at risk and using effective public diplomacy to promote the free flow of information and ideas to kindle the hopes and aspirations of freedom of those in societies ruled by the sponsors of global terrorism while we recognize that our best defense is a good offense we are also strengthening america s homeland security to protect against and deter attack this administration has proposed the largest government reorganization since the truman administration created the national security council and the department of defense centered on a new department of homeland security and including a new unified military command and a fundamental reordering of the fbi our comprehensive plan to secure the homeland encompasses every level of government and the cooperation of the public and the private sector this strategy will turn adversity into opportunity for example emergency management systems will be better able to cope not just with terrorism but with all hazards our medical system will be strengthened to manage not just bioterror but all infectious diseases and mass casualty dangers our border controls will not just stop terrorists but improve the efficient movement of legitimate traffic while our focus is protecting america we know that to defeat terrorism in today s globalized world we need support from our allies and friends wherever possible the united states will rely on regional organizations and state powers to meet their obligations to fight terrorism where governments find the fight against terrorism beyond their capacities we will match their willpower and their resources with whatever help we and our allies can provide as we pursue the terrorists in afghanistan we will continue to work with international organizations such as the united nations as well as non governmental organizations and other countries to provide the humanitarian political economic and security assistance necessary to rebuild afghanistan so that it will never again abuse its people threaten its neighbors and provide a haven for terrorists in the war against global terrorism we will never forget that we are ultimately fighting for our democratic values and way of life freedom and fear are at war and there will be no quick or easy end to this conflict in leading the campaign against terrorism we are forging new productive international relationships and redefining existing ones in ways that meet the challenges of the twenty first century iv work with others to defuse regional conflicts we build a world of justice or we will live in a world of coercion the magnitude of our shared responsibilities makes our disagreements look so small president bush berlin germany may NUMBER NUMBER concerned nations must remain actively engaged in critical regional disputes to avoid explosive escalation and minimize human suffering in an increasingly interconnected world regional crisis can strain our alliances rekindle rivalries among the major powers and create horrifying affronts to human dignity when violence erupts and states falter the united states will work with friends and partners to alleviate suffering and restore stability no doctrine can anticipate every circumstance in which u s action direct or indirect is warranted we have finite political economic and military resources to meet our global priorities the united states will approach each case with these strategic principles in mind the united states should invest time and resources into building international relationships and institutions that can help manage local crises when they emerge the united states should be realistic about its ability to help those who are unwilling or unready to help themselves where and when people are ready to do their part we will be willing to move decisively policies in several key regions offer some illustrations of how we will apply these principles the israeli palestinian conflict is critical because of the toll of human suffering because of america s close relationship with the state of israel and key arab states and because of that region s importance to other global priorities of the united states there can be no peace for either side without freedom for both sides america stands committed to an independent and democratic palestine living beside israel in peace and security like all other people palestinians deserve a government that serves their interests and listens to their voices and counts their votes the united states will continue to encourage all parties to step up to their responsibilities as we seek a just and comprehensive settlement to the conflict the united states the international donor community and the world bank stand ready to work with a reformed palestinian government on economic development increased humanitarian assistance and a program to establish finance and monitor a truly independent judiciary if palestinians embrace democracy and the rule of law confront corruption and firmly reject terror they can count on american support for the creation of a palestinian state israel also has a large stake in the success of a democratic palestine permanent occupation threatens israel s identity and democracy so the united states continues to challenge israeli leaders to take concrete steps to support the emergence of a viable credible palestinian state as there is progress towards security israel forces need to withdraw fully to positions they held prior to september NUMBER NUMBER and consistent with the recommendations of the mitchell committee israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories must stop as violence subsides freedom of movement should be restored permitting innocent palestinians to resume work and normal life the united states can play a crucial role but ultimately lasting peace can only come when israelis and palestinians resolve the issues and end the conflict between them in south asia the united states has also emphasized the need for india and pakistan to resolve their disputes this administration invested time and resources building strong bilateral relations with india and pakistan these strong relations then gave us leverage to play a constructive role when tensions in the region became acute with pakistan our bilateral relations have been bolstered by pakistan s choice to join the war against terror and move toward building a more open and tolerant society the administration sees india s potential to become one of the great democratic powers of the twenty first century and has worked hard to transform our relationship accordingly our involvement in this regional dispute building on earlier investments in bilateral relations looks first to concrete steps by india and pakistan that can help defuse military confrontation indonesia took courageous steps to create a working democracy and respect for the rule of law by tolerating ethnic minorities respecting the rule of law and accepting open markets indonesia may be able to employ the engine of opportunity that has helped lift some of its neighbors out of poverty and desperation it is the initiative by indonesia that allows u s assistance to make a difference in the western hemisphere we have formed flexible coalitions with countries that share our priorities particularly mexico brazil canada chile and colombia together we will promote a truly democratic hemisphere where our integration advances security prosperity opportunity and hope we will work with regional institutions such as the summit of the americas process the organization of american states oas and the defense ministerial of the americas for the benefit of the entire hemisphere parts of latin america confront regional conflict especially arising from the violence of drug cartels and their accomplices this conflict and unrestrained narcotics trafficking could imperil the health and security of the united states therefore we have developed an active strategy to help the andean nations adjust their economies enforce their laws defeat terrorist organizations and cut off the supply of drugs while as important we work to reduce the demand for drugs in our own country in colombia we recognize the link between terrorist and extremist groups that challenge the security of the state and drug trafficking activities that help finance the operations of such groups we are working to help colombia defend its democratic institutions and defeat illegal armed groups of both the left and right by extending effective sovereignty over the entire national territory and provide basic security to the colombian people in africa promise and opportunity sit side by side with disease war and desperate poverty this threatens both a core value of the united states preserving human dignity and our strategic priority combating global terror american interests and american principles therefore lead in the same direction we will work with others for an african continent that lives in liberty peace and growing prosperity together with our european allies we must help strengthen africa s fragile states help build indigenous capability to secure porous borders and help build up the law enforcement and intelligence infrastructure to deny havens for terrorists an ever more lethal environment exists in africa as local civil wars spread beyond borders to create regional war zones forming coalitions of the willing and cooperative security arrangements are key to confronting these emerging transnational threats africa s great size and diversity requires a security strategy that focuses bilateral engagement and builds coalitions of the willing this administration will focus on three interlocking strategies for the region countries with major impact on their neighborhood such as south africa nigeria kenya and ethiopia are anchors for regional engagement and require focused attention coordination with european allies and international institutions is essential for constructive conflict mediation and successful peace operations and africa s capable reforming states and sub regional organizations must be strengthened as the primary means to address transnational threats on a sustained basis ultimately the path of political and economic freedom presents the surest route to progress in sub saharan africa where most wars are conflicts over material resources and political access often tragically waged on the basis of ethnic and religious difference the transition to the african union with its stated commitment to good governance and a common responsibility for democratic political systems offers opportunities to strengthen democracy on the continent v prevent our enemies from threatening us our allies and our friends with weapons of mass destruction the gravest danger to freedom lies at the crossroads of radicalism and technology when the spread of chemical and biological and nuclear weapons along with ballistic missile technology when that occurs even weak states and small groups could attain a catastrophic power to strike great nations our enemies have declared this very intention and have been caught seeking these terrible weapons they want the capability to blackmail us or to harm us or to harm our friends and we will oppose them with all our power president bush west point new york june NUMBER NUMBER the nature of the cold war threat required the united states with our allies and friends to emphasize deterrence of the enemy s use of force producing a grim strategy of mutual assured destruction with the collapse of the soviet union and the end of the cold war our security environment has undergone profound transformation having moved from confrontation to cooperation as the hallmark of our relationship with russia the dividends are evident an end to the balance of terror that divided us an historic reduction in the nuclear arsenals on both sides and cooperation in areas such as counterterrorism and missile defense that until recently were inconceivable but new deadly challenges have emerged from rogue states and terrorists none of these contemporary threats rival the sheer destructive power that was arrayed against us by the soviet union however the nature and motivations of these new adversaries their determination to obtain destructive powers hitherto available only to the world s strongest states and the greater likelihood that they will use weapons of mass destruction against us make today s security environment more complex and dangerous in the NUMBERs we witnessed the emergence of a small number of rogue states that while different in important ways share a number of attributes these states brutalize their own people and squander their national resources for the personal gain of the rulers display no regard for international law threaten their neighbors and callously violate international treaties to which they are party are determined to acquire weapons of mass destruction along with other advanced military technology to be used as threats or offensively to achieve the aggressive designs of these regimes sponsor terrorism around the globe and reject basic human values and hate the united states and everything for which it stands at the time of the gulf war we acquired irrefutable proof that iraq s designs were not limited to the chemical weapons it had used against iran and its own people but also extended to the acquisition of nuclear weapons and biological agents in the past decade north korea has become the world s principal purveyor of ballistic missiles and has tested increasingly capable missiles while developing its own wmd arsenal other rogue regimes seek nuclear biological and chemical weapons as well these states pursuit of and global trade in such weapons has become a looming threat to all nations we must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction against the united states and our allies and friends our response must take full advantage of strengthened alliances the establishment of new partnerships with former adversaries innovation in the use of military forces modern technologies including the development of an effective missile defense system and increased emphasis on intelligence collection and analysis our comprehensive strategy to combat wmd includes proactive counterproliferation efforts we must deter and defend against the threat before it is unleashed we must ensure that key capabilities detection active and passive defenses and counterforce capabilities are integrated into our defense transformation and our homeland security systems counterproliferation must also be integrated into the doctrine training and equipping of our forces and those of our allies to ensure that we can prevail in any conflict with wmd armed adversaries strengthened nonproliferation efforts to prevent rogue states and terrorists from acquiring the materials technologies and expertise necessary for weapons of mass destruction we will enhance diplomacy arms control multilateral export controls and threat reduction assistance that impede states and terrorists seeking wmd and when necessary interdict enabling technologies and materials we will continue to build coalitions to support these efforts encouraging their increased political and financial support for nonproliferation and threat reduction programs the recent g NUMBER agreement to commit up to NUMBER billion to a global partnership against proliferation marks a major step forward effective consequence management to respond to the effects of wmd use whether by terrorists or hostile states minimizing the effects of wmd use against our people will help deter those who possess such weapons and dissuade those who seek to acquire them by persuading enemies that they cannot attain their desired ends the united states must also be prepared to respond to the effects of wmd use against our forces abroad and to help friends and allies if they are attacked it has taken almost a decade for us to comprehend the true nature of this new threat given the goals of rogue states and terrorists the united states can no longer solely rely on a reactive posture as we have in the past the inability to deter a potential attacker the immediacy of today s threats and the magnitude of potential harm that could be caused by our adversaries choice of weapons do not permit that option we cannot let our enemies strike first in the cold war especially following the cuban missile crisis we faced a generally status quo risk averse adversary deterrence was an effective defense but deterrence based only upon the threat of retaliation is far less likely to work against leaders of rogue states more willing to take risks gambling with the lives of their people and the wealth of their nations in the cold war weapons of mass destruction were considered weapons of last resort whose use risked the destruction of those who used them today our enemies see weapons of mass destruction as weapons of choice for rogue states these weapons are tools of intimidation and military aggression against their neighbors these weapons may also allow these states to attempt to blackmail the united states and our allies to prevent us from deterring or repelling the aggressive behavior of rogue states such states also see these weapons as their best means of overcoming the conventional superiority of the united states traditional concepts of deterrence will not work against a terrorist enemy whose avowed tactics are wanton destruction and the targeting of innocents whose so called soldiers seek martyrdom in death and whose most potent protection is statelessness the overlap between states that sponsor terror and those that pursue wmd compels us to action for centuries international law recognized that nations need not suffer an attack before they can lawfully take action to defend themselves against forces that present an imminent danger of attack legal scholars and international jurists often conditioned the legitimacy of preemption on the existence of an imminent threat most often a visible mobilization of armies navies and air forces preparing to attack we must adapt the concept of imminent threat to the capabilities and objectives of today s adversaries rogue states and terrorists do not seek to attack us using conventional means they know such attacks would fail instead they rely on acts of terrorism and potentially the use of weapons of mass destruction weapons that can be easily concealed and delivered covertly and without warning the targets of these attacks are our military forces and our civilian population in direct violation of one of the principal norms of the law of warfare as was demonstrated by the losses on september NUMBER NUMBER mass civilian casualties is the specific objective of terrorists and these losses would be exponentially more severe if terrorists acquired and used weapons of mass destruction the united states has long maintained the option of preemptive actions to counter a sufficient threat to our national security the greater the threat the greater is the risk of inaction and the more compelling the case for taking anticipatory action to defend ourselves even if uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy s attack to forestall or prevent such hostile acts by our adversaries the united states will if necessary act preemptively the united states will not use force in all cases to preempt emerging threats nor should nations use preemption as a pretext for aggression yet in an age where the enemies of civilization openly and actively seek the world s most destructive technologies the united states cannot remain idle while dangers gather we will always proceed deliberately weighing the consequences of our actions to support preemptive options we will build better more integrated intelligence capabilities to provide timely accurate information on threats wherever they may emerge coordinate closely with allies to form a common assessment of the most dangerous threats and continue to transform our military forces to ensure our ability to conduct rapid and precise operations to achieve decisive results the purpose of our actions will always be to eliminate a specific threat to the united states or our allies and friends the reasons for our actions will be clear the force measured and the cause just vi ignite a new era of global economic growth through free markets and free trade when nations close their markets and opportunity is hoarded by a privileged few no amount no amount of development aid is ever enough when nations respect their people open markets invest in better health and education every dollar of aid every dollar of trade revenue and domestic capital is used more effectively president bush monterrey mexico march NUMBER NUMBER a strong world economy enhances our national security by advancing prosperity and freedom in the rest of the world economic growth supported by free trade and free markets creates new jobs and higher incomes it allows people to lift their lives out of poverty spurs economic and legal reform and the fight against corruption and it reinforces the habits of liberty we will promote economic growth and economic freedom beyond america s shores all governments are responsible for creating their own economic policies and responding to their own economic challenge we will use our economic engagement with other countries to underscore the benefits of policies that generate higher productivity and sustained economic growth including pro growth legal and regulatory policies to encourage business investment innovation and entrepreneurial activity tax policies particularly lower marginal tax rates that improve incentives for work and investment rule of law and intolerance of corruption so that people are confident that they will be able to enjoy the fruits of their economic endeavors strong financial systems that allow capital to be put to its most efficient use sound fiscal policies to support business activity investments in health and education that improve the well being and skills of the labor force and population as a whole and free trade that provides new avenues for growth and fosters the diffusion of technologies and ideas that increase productivity and opportunity the lessons of history are clear market economies not command and control economies with the heavy hand of government are the best way to promote prosperity and reduce poverty policies that further strengthen market incentives and market institutions are relevant for all economies industrialized countries emerging markets and the developing world a return to strong economic growth in europe and japan is vital to u s national security interests we want our allies to have strong economies for their own sake for the sake of the global economy and for the sake of global security european efforts to remove structural barriers in their economies are particularly important in this regard as are japan s efforts to end deflation and address the problems of non performing loans in the japanese banking system we will continue to use our regular consultations with japan and our european partners including through the group of seven g NUMBER to discuss policies they are adopting to promote growth in their economies and support higher global economic growth improving stability in emerging markets is also key to global economic growth international flows of investment capital are needed to expand the productive potential of these economies these flows allow emerging markets and developing countries to make the investments that raise living standards and reduce poverty our long term objective should be a world in which all countries have investment grade credit ratings that allow them access to international capital markets and to invest in their future we are committed to policies that will help emerging markets achieve access to larger capital flows at lower cost to this end we will continue to pursue reforms aimed at reducing uncertainty in financial markets we will work actively with other countries the international monetary fund imf and the private sector to implement the g NUMBER action plan negotiated earlier this year for preventing financial crises and more effectively resolving them when they occur the best way to deal with financial crises is to prevent them from occurring and we have encouraged the imf to improve its efforts doing so we will continue to work with the imf to streamline the policy conditions for its lending and to focus its lending strategy on achieving economic growth through sound fiscal and monetary policy exchange rate policy and financial sector policy the concept of free trade arose as a moral principle even before it became a pillar of economics if you can make something that others value you should be able to sell it to them if others make something that you value you should be able to buy it this is real freedom the freedom for a person or a nation to make a living to promote free trade the unites states has developed a comprehensive strategy seize the global initiative the new global trade negotiations we helped launch at doha in november NUMBER will have an ambitious agenda especially in agriculture manufacturing and services targeted for completion in NUMBER the united states has led the way in completing the accession of china and a democratic taiwan to the world trade organization we will assist russia s preparations to join the wto press regional initiatives the united states and other democracies in the western hemisphere have agreed to create the free trade area of the americas targeted for completion in NUMBER this year the united states will advocate market access negotiations with its partners targeted on agriculture industrial goods services investment and government procurement we will also offer more opportunity to the poorest continent africa starting with full use of the preferences allowed in the african growth and opportunity act and leading to free trade move ahead with bilateral free trade agreements building on the free trade agreement with jordan enacted in NUMBER the administration will work this year to complete free trade agreements with chile and singapore our aim is to achieve free trade agreements with a mix of developed and developing countries in all regions of the world initially central america southern africa morocco and australia will be our principal focal points renew the executive congressional partnership every administration s trade strategy depends on a productive partnership with congress after a gap of NUMBER years the administration reestablished majority support in the congress for trade liberalization by passing trade promotion authority and the other market opening measures for developing countries in the trade act of NUMBER this administration will work with congress to enact new bilateral regional and global trade agreements that will be concluded under the recently passed trade promotion authority promote the connection between trade and development trade policies can help developing countries strengthen property rights competition the rule of law investment the spread of knowledge open societies the efficient allocation of resources and regional integration all leading to growth opportunity and confidence in developing countries the united states is implementing the africa growth and opportunity act to provide market access for nearly all goods produced in the NUMBER countries of sub saharan africa we will make more use of this act and its equivalent for the caribbean basin and continue to work with multilateral and regional institutions to help poorer countries take advantage of these opportunities beyond market access the most important area where trade intersects with poverty is in public health we will ensure that the wto intellectual property rules are flexible enough to allow developing nations to gain access to critical medicines for extraordinary dangers like hiv aids tuberculosis and malaria enforce trade agreements and laws against unfair practices commerce depends on the rule of law international trade depends on enforceable agreements our top priorities are to resolve ongoing disputes with the european union canada and mexico and to make a global effort to address new technology science and health regulations that needlessly impede farm exports and improved agriculture laws against unfair trade practices are often abused but the international community must be able to address genuine concerns about government subsidies and dumping international industrial espionage which undermines fair competition must be detected and deterred help domestic industries and workers adjust there is a sound statutory framework for these transitional safeguards which we have used in the agricultural sector and which we are using this year to help the american steel industry the benefits of free trade depend upon the enforcement of fair trading practices these safeguards help ensure that the benefits of free trade do not come at the expense of american workers trade adjustment assistance will help workers adapt to the change and dynamism of open markets protect the environment and workers the united states must foster economic growth in ways that will provide a better life along with widening prosperity we will incorporate labor and environmental concerns into u s trade negotiations creating a healthy network between multilateral environmental agreements with the wto and use the international labor organization trade preference programs and trade talks to improve working conditions in conjunction with freer trade enhance energy security we will strengthen our own energy security and the shared prosperity of the global economy by working with our allies trading partners and energy producers to expand the sources and types of global energy supplied especially in the western hemisphere africa central asia and the caspian region we will also continue to work with our partners to develop cleaner and more energy efficient technologies economic growth should be accompanied by global efforts to stabilize greenhouse gas concentrations associated with this growth containing them at a level that prevents dangerous human interference with the global climate our overall objective is to reduce america s greenhouse gas emissions relative to the size of our economy cutting such emissions per unit of economic activity by NUMBER percent over the next NUMBER years by the year NUMBER our strategies for attaining this goal will be to remain committed to the basic u n framework convention for international cooperation obtain agreements with key industries to cut emissions of some of the most potent greenhouse gases and give transferable credits to companies that can show real cuts develop improved standards for measuring and registering emission reductions promote renewable energy production and clean coal technology as well as nuclear power which produces no greenhouse gas emissions while also improving fuel economy for u s cars and trucks increase spending on research and new conservation technologies to a total of NUMBER NUMBER billion the largest sum being spent on climate change by any country in the world and a NUMBER million increase over last year s budget and assist developing countries especially the major greenhouse gas emitters such as china and india so that they will have the tools and resources to join this effort and be able to grow along a cleaner and better path vii expand the circle of development by opening societies and building the infrastructure of democracy in world war ii we fought to make the world safer then worked to rebuild it as we wage war today to keep the world safe from terror we must also work to make the world a better place for all its citizens president bush washington d c inter american development bank march NUMBER NUMBER a world where some live in comfort and plenty while half of the human race lives on less than NUMBER a day is neither just nor stable including all of the world s poor in an expanding circle of development and opportunity is a moral imperative and one of the top priorities of u s international policy decades of massive development assistance have failed to spur economic growth in the poorest countries worse development aid has often served to prop up failed policies relieving the pressure for reform and perpetuating misery results of aid are typically measured in dollars spent by donors not in the rates of growth and poverty reduction achieved by recipients these are the indicators of a failed strategy working with other nations the united states is confronting this failure we forged a new consensus at the u n conference on financing for development in monterrey that the objectives of assistance and the strategies to achieve those objectives must change this administration s goal is to help unleash the productive potential of individuals in all nations sustained growth and poverty reduction is impossible without the right national policies where governments have implemented real policy changes we will provide significant new levels of assistance the united states and other developed countries should set an ambitious and specific target to double the size of the world s poorest economies within a decade the united states government will pursue these major strategies to achieve this goal provide resources to aid countries that have met the challenge of national reform we propose a NUMBER percent increase in the core development assistance given by the united states while continuing our present programs including humanitarian assistance based on need alone these billions of new dollars will form a new millennium challenge account for projects in countries whose governments rule justly invest in their people and encourage economic freedom governments must fight corruption respect basic human rights embrace the rule of law invest in health care and education follow responsible economic policies and enable entrepreneurship the millennium challenge account will reward countries that have demonstrated real policy change and challenge those that have not to implement reforms improve the effectiveness of the world bank and other development banks in raising living standards the united states is committed to a comprehensive reform agenda for making the world bank and the other multilateral development banks more effective in improving the lives of the world s poor we have reversed the downward trend in u s contributions and proposed an NUMBER percent increase in the u s contributions to the international development association ida the world bank s fund for the poorest countries and the african development fund the key to raising living standards and reducing poverty around the world is increasing productivity growth especially in the poorest countries we will continue to press the multilateral development banks to focus on activities that increase economic productivity such as improvements in education health rule of law and private sector development every project every loan every grant must be judged by how much it will increase productivity growth in developing countries insist upon measurable results to ensure that development assistance is actually making a difference in the lives of the world s poor when it comes to economic development what really matters is that more children are getting a better education more people have access to health care and clean water or more workers can find jobs to make a better future for their families we have a moral obligation to measure the success of our development assistance by whether it is delivering results for this reason we will continue to demand that our own development assistance as well as assistance from the multilateral development banks has measurable goals and concrete benchmarks for achieving those goals thanks to u s leadership the recent ida replenishment agreement will establish a monitoring and evaluation system that measures recipient countries progress for the first time donors can link a portion of their contributions to ida to the achievement of actual development results and part of the u s contribution is linked in this way we will strive to make sure that the world bank and other multilateral development banks build on this progress so that a focus on results is an integral part of everything that these institutions do increase the amount of development assistance that is provided in the form of grants instead of loans greater use of results based grants is the best way to help poor countries make productive investments particularly in the social sectors without saddling them with ever larger debt burdens as a result of u s leadership the recent ida agreement provided for significant increases in grant funding for the poorest countries for education hiv aids health nutrition water sanitation and other human needs our goal is to build on that progress by increasing the use of grants at the other multilateral development banks we will also challenge universities nonprofits and the private sector to match government efforts by using grants to support development projects that show results open societies to commerce and investment trade and investment are the real engines of economic growth even if government aid increases most money for development must come from trade domestic capital and foreign investment an effective strategy must try to expand these flows as well free markets and free trade are key priorities of our national security strategy secure public health the scale of the public health crisis in poor countries is enormous in countries afflicted by epidemics and pandemics like hiv aids malaria and tuberculosis growth and development will be threatened until these scourges can be contained resources from the developed world are necessary but will be effective only with honest governance which supports prevention programs and provides effective local infrastructure the united states has strongly backed the new global fund for hiv aids organized by u n secretary general kofi annan and its focus on combining prevention with a broad strategy for treatment and care the united states already contributes more than twice as much money to such efforts as the next largest donor if the global fund demonstrates its promise we will be ready to give even more emphasize education literacy and learning are the foundation of democracy and development only about NUMBER percent of world bank resources are devoted to education this proportion should grow the united states will increase its own funding for education assistance by at least NUMBER percent with an emphasis on improving basic education and teacher training in africa the united states can also bring information technology to these societies many of whose education systems have been devastated by aids continue to aid agricultural development new technologies including biotechnology have enormous potential to improve crop yields in developing countries while using fewer pesticides and less water using sound science the united states should help bring these benefits to the NUMBER million people including NUMBER million children who still suffer from hunger and malnutrition viii develop agendas for cooperative action with the other main centers of global power we have our best chance since the rise of the nation state in the NUMBERth century to build a world where the great powers compete in peace instead of prepare for war president bush west point new york june NUMBER NUMBER america will implement its strategies by organizing coalitions as broad as practicable of states able and willing to promote a balance of power that favors freedom effective coalition leadership requires clear priorities an appreciation of others interests and consistent consultations among partners with a spirit of humility there is little of lasting consequence that the united states can accomplish in the world without the sustained cooperation of its allies and friends in canada and europe europe is also the seat of two of the strongest and most able international institutions in the world the north atlantic treaty organization nato which has since its inception been the fulcrum of transatlantic and inter european security and the european union eu our partner in opening world trade the attacks of september NUMBER were also an attack on nato as nato itself recognized when it invoked its article v self defense clause for the first time nato s core mission collective defense of the transatlantic alliance of democracies remains but nato must develop new structures and capabilities to carry out that mission under new circumstances nato must build a capability to field at short notice highly mobile specially trained forces whenever they are needed to respond to a threat against any member of the alliance the alliance must be able to act wherever our interests are threatened creating coalitions under nato s own mandate as well as contributing to mission based coalitions to achieve this we must expand nato s membership to those democratic nations willing and able to share the burden of defending and advancing our common interests ensure that the military forces of nato nations have appropriate combat contributions to make in coalition warfare develop planning processes to enable those contributions to become effective multinational fighting forces take advantage of the technological opportunities and economies of scale in our defense spending to transform nato military forces so that they dominate potential aggressors and diminish our vulnerabilities streamline and increase the flexibility of command structures to meet new operational demands and the associated requirements of training integrating and experimenting with new force configurations and maintain the ability to work and fight together as allies even as we take the necessary steps to transform and modernize our forces if nato succeeds in enacting these changes the rewards will be a partnership as central to the security and interests of its member states as was the case during the cold war we will sustain a common perspective on the threats to our societies and improve our ability to take common action in defense of our nations and their interests at the same time we welcome our european allies efforts to forge a greater foreign policy and defense identity with the eu and commit ourselves to close consultations to ensure that these developments work with nato we cannot afford to lose this opportunity to better prepare the family of transatlantic democracies for the challenges to come the attacks of september NUMBER energized america s asian alliances australia invoked the anzus treaty to declare the september NUMBER was an attack on australia itself following that historic decision with the dispatch of some of the world s finest combat forces for operation enduring freedom japan and the republic of korea provided unprecedented levels of military logistical support within weeks of the terrorist attack we have deepened cooperation on counter terrorism with our alliance partners in thailand and the philippines and received invaluable assistance from close friends like singapore and new zealand the war against terrorism has proven that america s alliances in asia not only underpin regional peace and stability but are flexible and ready to deal with new challenges to enhance our asian alliances and friendships we will look to japan to continue forging a leading role in regional and global affairs based on our common interests our common values and our close defense and diplomatic cooperation work with south korea to maintain vigilance towards the north while preparing our alliance to make contributions to the broader stability of the region over the longer term build on NUMBER years of u s australian alliance cooperation as we continue working together to resolve regional and global problems as we have so many times from the battle of leyte gulf to tora bora maintain forces in the region that reflect our commitments to our allies our requirements our technological advances and the strategic environment and build on stability provided by these alliances as well as with institutions such as asean and the asia pacific economic cooperation forum to develop a mix of regional and bilateral strategies to manage change in this dynamic region we are attentive to the possible renewal of old patterns of great power competition several potential great powers are now in the midst of internal transition most importantly russia india and china in all three cases recent developments have encouraged our hope that a truly global consensus about basic principles is slowly taking shape with russia we are already building a new strategic relationship based on a central reality of the twenty first century the united states and russia are no longer strategic adversaries the moscow treaty on strategic reductions is emblematic of this new reality and reflects a critical change in russian thinking that promises to lead to productive long term relations with the euro atlantic community and the united states russia s top leaders have a realistic assessment of their country s current weakness and the policies internal and external needed to reverse those weaknesses they understand increasingly that cold war approaches do not serve their national interests and that russian and american strategic interests overlap in many areas united states policy seeks to use this turn in russian thinking to refocus our relationship on emerging and potential common interests and challenges we are broadening our already extensive cooperation in the global war on terrorism we are facilitating russia s entry into the world trade organization without lowering standards for accession to promote beneficial bilateral trade and investment relations we have created the nato russia council with the goal of deepening security cooperation among russia our european allies and ourselves we will continue to bolster the independence and stability of the states of the former soviet union in the belief that a prosperous and stable neighborhood will reinforce russia s growing commitment to integration into the euro atlantic community at the same time we are realistic about the differences that still divide us from russia and about the time and effort it will take to build an enduring strategic partnership lingering distrust of our motives and policies by key russian elites slows improvement in our relations russia s uneven commitment to the basic values of free market democracy and dubious record in combating the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction remain matters of great concern russia s very weakness limits the opportunities for cooperation nevertheless those opportunities are vastly greater now than in recent years or even decades the united states has undertaken a transformation in its bilateral relationship with india based on a conviction that u s interests require a strong relationship with india we are the two largest democracies committed to political freedom protected by representative government india is moving toward greater economic freedom as well we have a common interest in the free flow of commerce including through the vital sea lanes of the indian ocean finally we share an interest in fighting terrorism and in creating a strategically stable asia differences remain including over the development of india s nuclear and missile programs and the pace of india s economic reforms but while in the past these concerns may have dominated our thinking about india today we start with a view of india as a growing world power with which we have common strategic interests through a strong partnership with india we can best address any differences and shape a dynamic future the united states relationship with china is an important part of our strategy to promote a stable peaceful and prosperous asia pacific region we welcome the emergence of a strong peaceful and prosperous china the democratic development of china is crucial to that future yet a quarter century after beginning the process of shedding the worst features of the communist legacy china s leaders have not yet made the next series of fundamental choices about the character of their state in pursuing advanced military capabilities that can threaten its neighbors in the asia pacific region china is following an outdated path that in the end will hamper its own pursuit of national greatness in time china will find that social and political freedom is the only source of that greatness the united states seeks a constructive relationship with a changing china we already cooperate well where our interests overlap including the current war on terrorism and in promoting stability on the korean peninsula likewise we have coordinated on the future of afghanistan and have initiated a comprehensive dialogue on counter terrorism and similar transitional concerns shared health and environmental threats such as the spread of hiv aids challenge us to promote jointly the welfare of our citizens addressing these transnational threats will challenge china to become more open with information promote the development of civil society and enhance individual human rights china has begun to take the road to political openness permitting many personal freedoms and conducting village level elections yet remains strongly committed to national one party rule by the communist party to make that nation truly accountable to its citizen s needs and aspirations however much work remains to be done only by allowing the chinese people to think assemble and worship freely can china reach its full potential our important trade relationship will benefit from china s entry into the world trade organization which will create more export opportunities and ultimately more jobs for american farmers workers and companies china is our fourth largest trading partner with over NUMBER billion in annual two way trade the power of market principles and the wto s requirements for transparency and accountability will advance openness and the rule of law in china to help establish basic protections for commerce and for citizens there are however other areas in which we have profound disagreements our commitment to the self defense of taiwan under the taiwan relations act is one human rights is another we expect china to adhere to its nonproliferation commitments we will work to narrow differences where they exist but not allow them to preclude cooperation where we agree the events of september NUMBER NUMBER fundamentally changed the context for relations between the united states and other main centers of global power and opened vast new opportunities with our long standing allies in europe and asia and with leaders in russia india and china we must develop active agendas of cooperation lest these relationships become routine and unproductive every agency of the united states government shares the challenge we can build fruitful habits of consultation quiet argument sober analysis and common action in the long term these are the practices that will sustain the supremacy of our common principles and keep open the path of progress ix transform america s national security institutions to meet the challenges and opportunities of the twenty first century terrorists attacked a symbol of american prosperity they did not touch its source america is successful because of the hard work creativity and enterprise of our people president bush washington d c joint session of congress september NUMBER NUMBER the major institutions of american national security were designed in a different era to meet different requirements all of them must be transformed it is time to reaffirm the essential role of american military strength we must build and maintain our defenses beyond challenge our military s highest priority is to defend the united states to do so effectively our military must assure our allies and friends dissuade future military competition deter threats against u s interests allies and friends and decisively defeat any adversary if deterrence fails the unparalleled strength of the united states armed forces and their forward presence have maintained the peace in some of the world s most strategically vital regions however the threats and enemies we must confront have changed and so must our forces a military structured to deter massive cold war era armies must be transformed to focus more on how an adversary might fight rather than where and when a war might occur we will channel our energies to overcome a host of operational challenges the presence of american forces overseas is one of the most profound symbols of the u s commitments to allies and friends through our willingness to use force in our own defense and in defense of others the united states demonstrates its resolve to maintain a balance of power that favors freedom to contend with uncertainty and to meet the many security challenges we face the united states will require bases and stations within and beyond western europe and northeast asia as well as temporary access arrangements for the long distance deployment of u s forces before the war in afghanistan that area was low on the list of major planning contingencies yet in a very short time we had to operate across the length and breadth of that remote nation using every branch of the armed forces we must prepare for more such deployments by developing assets such as advanced remote sensing long range precision strike capabilities and transformed maneuver and expeditionary forces this broad portfolio of military capabilities must also include the ability to defend the homeland conduct information operations ensure u s access to distant theaters and protect critical u s infrastructure and assets in outer space innovation within the armed forces will rest on experimentation with new approaches to warfare strengthening joint operations exploiting u s intelligence advantages and taking full advantage of science and technology we must also transform the way the department of defense is run especially in financial management and recruitment and retention finally while maintaining near term readiness and the ability to fight the war on terrorism the goal must be to provide the president with a wider range of military options to discourage aggression or any form of coercion against the united states our allies and our friends we know from history that deterrence can fail and we know from experience that some enemies cannot be deterred the united states must and will maintain the capability to defeat any attempt by an enemy whether a state or non state actor to impose its will on the united states our allies or our friends we will maintain the forces sufficient to support our obligations and to defend freedom our forces will be strong enough to dissuade potential adversaries from pursuing a military build up in hopes of surpassing or equaling the power of the united states intelligence and how we use it is our first line of defense against terrorists and the threat posed by hostile states designed around the priority of gathering enormous information about a massive fixed object the soviet bloc the intelligence community is coping with the challenge of following a far more complex and elusive set of targets we must transform our intelligence capabilities and build new ones to keep pace with the nature of these threats intelligence must be appropriately integrated with our defense and law enforcement systems and coordinated with our allies and friends we need to protect the capabilities we have so that we do not arm our enemies with the knowledge of how best to surprise us those who would harm us also seek the benefit of surprise to limit our prevention and response options and to maximize injury we must strengthen intelligence warning and analysis to provide integrated threat assessments for national and homeland security since the threats inspired by foreign governments and groups may be conducted inside the united states we must also ensure the proper fusion of information between intelligence and law enforcement initiatives in this area will include strengthening the authority of the director of central intelligence to lead the development and actions of the nation s foreign intelligence capabilities establishing a new framework for intelligence warning that provides seamless and integrated warning across the spectrum of threats facing the nation and our allies continuing to develop new methods of collecting information to sustain our intelligence advantage investing in future capabilities while working to protect them through a more vigorous effort to prevent the compromise of intelligence capabilities and collecting intelligence against the terrorist danger across the government with all source analysis as the united states government relies on the armed forces to defend america s interests it must rely on diplomacy to interact with other nations we will ensure that the department of state receives funding sufficient to ensure the success of american diplomacy the state department takes the lead in managing our bilateral relationships with other governments and in this new era its people and institutions must be able to interact equally adroitly with non governmental organizations and international institutions officials trained mainly in international politics must also extend their reach to understand complex issues of domestic governance around the world including public health education law enforcement the judiciary and public diplomacy our diplomats serve at the front line of complex negotiations civil wars and other humanitarian catastrophes as humanitarian relief requirements are better understood we must also be able to help build police forces court systems and legal codes local and provincial government institutions and electoral systems effective international cooperation is needed to accomplish these goals backed by american readiness to play our part just as our diplomatic institutions must adapt so that we can reach out to others we also need a different and more comprehensive approach to public information efforts that can help people around the world learn about and understand america the war on terrorism is not a clash of civilizations it does however reveal the clash inside a civilization a battle for the future of the muslim world this is a struggle of ideas and this is an area where america must excel we will take the actions necessary to ensure that our efforts to meet our global security commitments and protect americans are not impaired by the potential for investigations inquiry or prosecution by the international criminal court icc whose jurisdiction does not extend to americans and which we do not accept we will work together with other nations to avoid complications in our military operations and cooperation through such mechanisms as multilateral and bilateral agreements that will protect u s nationals from the icc we will implement fully the american servicemembers protection act whose provisions are intended to ensure and enhance the protection of u s personnel and officials we will make hard choices in the coming year and beyond to ensure the right level and allocation of government spending on national security the united states government must strengthen its defenses to win this war at home our most important priority is to protect the homeland for the american people today the distinction between domestic and foreign affairs is diminishing in a globalized world events beyond america s borders have a greater impact inside them our society must be open to people ideas and goods from across the globe the characteristics we most cherish our freedom our cities our systems of movement and modern life are vulnerable to terrorism this vulnerability will persist long after we bring to justice those responsible for the september eleventh attacks as time passes individuals may gain access to means of destruction that until now could be wielded only by armies fleets and squadrons this is a new condition of life we will adjust to it and thrive in spite of it in exercising our leadership we will respect the values judgment and interests of our friends and partners still we will be prepared to act apart when our interests and unique responsibilities require when we disagree on particulars we will explain forthrightly the grounds for our concerns and strive to forge viable alternatives we will not allow such disagreements to obscure our determination to secure together with our allies and our friends our shared fundamental interests and values ultimately the foundation of american strength is at home it is in the skills of our people the dynamism of our economy and the resilience of our institutions a diverse modern society has inherent ambitious entrepreneurial energy our strength comes from what we do with that energy that is where our national security begins ,0
weird i never thought the govmint would get into funding this you know weapons of mass destruction etc etc URL september NUMBER NUMBER senate committee passes nanotech bill by roy mark the senate commerce committee unanimously passed on thursday legislation to promote nanotechnology research and development introduced by sen ron wyden d ore the NUMBERst century nanotechnology research and development act would create the national nanotechnology research program the bill is co sponsored by sen joe lieberman d conn and sen george allen r va the proposed program would be a coordinated interagency effort that would support long term nanoscale research and development and promote effective education and training for the next generation of nanotechnology researchers and professionals the unanimous support of the senate commerce committee is a very big step forward for this very small technology lieberman who vowed to pushed to full senate passage before the end of the year said nowhere in the world are the wheels of innovation spinning more rapidly than in the realm of nanotechnology the u s certainly possesses the raw resources and talent to lead the world in developing this technology our legislation will provide the nation with a long term focus and sustained commitment and facilitate new collaborations between government academia and industry that will ensure our place at the head of the next wave of innovation the bill would place coordination and management of the nanotechnology program under the national science and technology council it would also create a presidential national nanotechnology advisory panel and national nanotechnology coordination office which would provide administrative and technical support for the advisory panel and the council my own judgment is the nanotechnology revolution has the potential to change america on a scale equal to if not greater than the computer revolution i am determined that the united states will not miss but will mine the opportunities of nanotechnology wyden said in introducing the bill at present efforts in the nanotechnology field are strewn across a half dozen federal agencies i want america to marshal its various nanotechnology efforts into one driving force to remain the world s leader in this burgeoning field and i believe federal support is essential to achieving that goal to study the potential long term effects of nanotechnology a new center for societal ethical educational legal and workforce issues related to nanotechnology would also be established according to lieberman the bill closely tracks the recommendations of the national research council nrc which completed a thorough review of the national nanotechnology initiative in june those recommendations included establishing an independent advisory panel emphasizing long term goals striking a balance between long term and short term research supporting the development of research facilities equipment and instrumentation creating special funding to support research that falls in the breach between agency missions and programs promoting interdisciplinary research and research groups facilitating technology transition and outreach to industry conducting studies on the societal implications of nanotechnology including those related to ethical educational legal and workforce issues and the development of metrics for measuring progress toward program goals ,0
 related to the ms acquisition of xdegrees URL sun nabs storage startup by clint boulton amid the flurry of news at its own sunnetwork NUMBER conference in san francisco sun microsystems thursday said it has agreed to purchase data storage concern pirus networks for an undisclosed amount of stock the palo alto calif networking firm bought the acton mass based startup with a keen eye for the startup s switching define devices and virtualization technology used as part of a storage area network define virtualization is the pooling of storage from many network storage devices into what appears to the operating system to be a single storage device that is managed from a central console though major vendors make similar technology pirus competes with the likes of rhapsody networks and confluence networks sun plucked pirus after scouting some NUMBER companies mark lovington vice president of marketing for pirus told URL that pirus and sun have been in discussion for a while about a possible acquisition pirus he said succeeded in a goal it shares with a lot of storage startups to be acquired by one of the major systems vendors such as sun ibm hp hitachi this is a huge opportunity for pirus in a storage market dominated by NUMBER NUMBER or NUMBER system level players lovington said sun sees this acquisition as a critical element to their nNUMBER initiative the synergies were quite obvious nNUMBER is sun s hopeful tour de force in distributed computing define architecture which involves multiple remote computers that each have a role in a computation problem or information processing nNUMBER is being styled as the answer for companies looking to manage groups of computers and networks as a single system at a lower cost and with greater flexibility while lagging behind other more entrenched players sun is gaining ground in the storage market with its sun storedge complete storage solutions according to a new report by idc john mcarthur group vice president of idc s storage program said sun microsystems and ibm posted the largest increases in total storage revenue over qNUMBER NUMBER with NUMBER and NUMBER gains respectively as of qNUMBER sun held a NUMBER percent market share with revenues of NUMBER million sun s acquisition of pirus is expected to close in the second quarter of sun s NUMBER fiscal year which ends december NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 im feeling a bit farklempt having spent the night at todais with the family so talk amongst yourself here ill give you a topic the current state of it can be thought of in terms of the cold war with the us and the uusr being ms and sun ibm oss does it matter which side is which apple as cuba and the us legal system as the un discuss ,0
the pay s not good NUMBER NUMBER a year but there is insurance a NUMBER NUMBER i think off a student loan or for future education and non compete status for any govt job after a year s service i moved to new orleans yesterday and i should be flying to dc in about a month to start the americorps training i ll be setting up a community technology center which will be used to teach computer literacy skills to low income folks just like learning ms shit yeah yeah wtf am i doing i know so that they can possibly find better jobs i m sure i ll be doing all sorts of other things too like helping folks with their taxes writing grants etc the website is URL there are all sorts of jobs all over the country so if someone out there can survive on the small salary it s something s he might want to take a look at since xi is in college and getting grants scholarship child support from dad my load has gone down terrifically the irs is after me for money i didn t make on the stock market so it s a way to at least get into a situation where they will have to understand that yes they will have to wait but bottom line benefit and motivation is the feelgood that ya get when you do this type of job i m up for some of that cindy i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mr fork wrote free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies out of poverty i m not a socio political history buff does anybody have some clear examples you re probably living in one or you wouldn t be able to post here cheers rah r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 it was the best of times it was the worst of times it was the age of wisdom it was the age of foolishness it was the epoch of belief it was the epoch of incredulity it was the season of light it was the season of darkness it was the spring of hope it was the winter of despair we had everything before us we had nothing before us we were all going direct to heaven we were all going direct the other way c dickens g quon wrote there is a greater darkness than the one we fight it is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way the war we fight is not against powers and principalities it is against chaos and despair greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope the death of dreams against this peril we can never surrender the future is all around us waiting in moments of transition to be born in moments of revelation no one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us we know only that it is always born in pain jws ,0
hello fork so they have aaron schwartz on npr s weekend edition talking about warchalking i ll agree its funny his voice is squeaky and i m jealous that he got on radio and i didn t but really wtf is the big deal about warchalking i have yet to see any of it anywhere link will probably pop up on URL later today best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
hello chris oh i don t know time lag synchrocity or mutual shared experience over time its like NUMBER am i can t function yet lord knows its NUMBER where you are i say this should be a fork posit co scary i was just listening to the radio stream from kuow and heard co the story just moments ago co we re on opposite sides of the continent yet we appear to have just had a co shared experience there should be a name for that co cheers co cco co on sat NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote so they have aaron schwartz on npr s weekend edition talking about warchalking i ll agree its funny his voice is squeaky and i m jealous that he got on radio and i didn t best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
 f fork list mr writes f free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift f whole societies out of poverty i m not a f socio political history buff does anybody have some clear f examples china ooops no wait scratch that there is one counter example that i can think of but it may not be precisely free trade markets when ben franklin first visited england he was asked why the colonies were so prosperous ben explained that they used colonial script a kind of barter dollar and increasing the supply of script ensured complete employment the british bankers were furious and immediately lobbied parliament to clamp down on the practice within a few years the colonies were rife with unemployment and poverty just like the rest of the empire according to questionable literature handed out by a fringe political party here in canada the founding fathers had no real complaint about tea taxes it was the banning of colonial script they were protesting if this is true then it comes right back to the forces that killed ned ludd s followers as to why popular opinion believes they were protesting a tea tax the same pamphlet claimed that canada was also a prosperous nation until by an act of parliament in the late NUMBER s or early NUMBER s the right to print money was removed from the juristiction of parliament and handed over to the bank of canada i ve wondered about all this certainly the timeline of the collapse of the canadian economy fits the profile but there are oodles of other causes for example spending money like we had NUMBERm people when we only had NUMBERm anyone have any further information on this gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 r r a hettinga rah shipwright com writes r at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mr fork wrote free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies out of poverty i m not a socio political history buff does anybody have some clear examples r you re probably living in one or you wouldn t be able to post r here cool i wasn t aware that the us had lifted it s population out of poverty when did this happen i wonder where the media gets the idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote cool i wasn t aware that the us had lifted it s population out of poverty when did this happen i wonder where the media gets the idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening all the world loves a smartass seriously look at he life expectancy and human carrying capacity of this continent before the europeans got here look at it now even for descendants of the original inhabitants even for the descendents of slaves who were brought here by force more stuff cheaper that s progress poverty of course is not relative it s absolute disparity in wealth has nothing to do with it it s like saying that groups have rights when in truth only individuals do like group rights disparity in wealth is statistical sophistry besides even if you can t help the distribution industrial wealth is almost always transitory and so is relative poverty even when there are no confiscatory death taxes the NUMBERth anniversary forbes NUMBER just came out and only a few tens of people are still there since NUMBER a time which had significantly higher marginal taxes on wealth income and inheritance than we do now more to the point they re nowhere near the top i ll take those odds it is only when neofeudalism reasserts itself in the form of government regulation confiscatory taxes legislated monopoly corporate welfare non profit neoaristocratic tax dodges and legalized labor extortion that we get slowdowns in progress like what happened in fabian era britain or NUMBER s usa in fact it is in countries where wealth is the most unfairly distributed that you get the most improvement in the general economic welfare more stuff cheaper fewer people dying more people living longer i ll take those odds as well people take greater risks when the returns are higher improving the lot of us all as a result cheers rah begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER iqa awubpyyNUMBERyspxhNUMBERjfNUMBERohaeqlqnqcgNUMBERyvfNUMBERnvywkirrghhdisbonconNUMBERaopcr quzorxealeNUMBERhNUMBERtNUMBERsyklNUMBERdfnt NUMBERkff end pgp signature r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 original message from john hall johnhall evergo net take a list of the richest countries take a list of the countries that have the counties where markets are the most free they are essentially the same list umm how many of these countries were in poverty lifted themselves up after switching ,0
 original message from r a hettinga rah shipwright com free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies out of poverty i m not a socio political history buff does anybody have some clear examples you re probably living in one or you wouldn t be able to post here when was the whole us society in poverty was that before free trade free markets i m looking for transitions due to free xyz ,0
 original message from r a hettinga rah shipwright com seriously look at he life expectancy and human carrying capacity of this continent before the europeans got here look at it now even for descendants of the original inhabitants even for the descendents of slaves who were brought here by force i wouldn t say that the societies of humans here before european occupancy was lifted by free xyz perhaps replaced or sunk or some other description but not lifted also the lifestyle of the remnants of those societies is on average only marginally above poverty even today ,0
i went out and drew some chalk circles on my sidewalk just so i wouldn t miss out on the experience i ve collected half a dozen passwords access to email accounts so far greg bitbitch URL wrote hello fork so they have aaron schwartz on npr s weekend edition talking about warchalking i ll agree its funny his voice is squeaky and i m jealous that he got on radio and i didn t but really wtf is the big deal about warchalking i have yet to see any of it anywhere link will probably pop up on URL later today gregory alan bolcer cto work NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gbolcer at URL URL endeavors technology inc cell NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 as i ve said before american indian reservations are quite possibly the only place on the planet where you can find trailer park shantytowns where every household is bringing in a six figure income i wish i could be exploited like that like what like the rare exception case you ve raised or like the on average case mentioned in the post you were replying to max ,0
 original message from gregory alan bolcer gbolcer endeavors com i went out and drew some chalk circles on my sidewalk just so i wouldn t miss out on the experience i ve collected half a dozen passwords access to email accounts so far greg hahaha joke it takes a thief to catch a thief joke ,0
 original message from james rogers jamesr best com as i ve said before american indian reservations are quite possibly the only place on the planet where you can find trailer park shantytowns where every household is bringing in a six figure income i wish i could be exploited like that got bits and i bet you probably are being exploited but you just don t know by whom ,0
 original message from james rogers jamesr best com as i ve said before american indian reservations are quite possibly the only place on the planet where you can find trailer park shantytowns where every household is bringing in a six figure income i wish i could be exploited like that if you can t trust the guvmint census who can you trust URL income and poverty NUMBER NUMBER median household income for american indians and alaska natives based on a NUMBER NUMBER average this is higher than for african americans NUMBER NUMBER not statistically different from hispanics NUMBER NUMBER and lower than for non hispanic whites NUMBER NUMBER and asians and pacific islanders NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER NUMBER the poverty rate for american indians and alaska natives based on a NUMBER NUMBER average this rate was not statistically different from the rates for african americans and hispanics but was higher than those for non hispanic whites and asians and pacific islanders URL NUMBER NUMBER number of american indians and alaska natives below the poverty line based on a NUMBER NUMBER average URL ,0
 cool i wonder what you d look like standing in front of a bunch of corporate executives URL that s why for example orth is trying to catch the interest of the military with fabrics that change color when conductive fibers stitched into the cloth heat and cool the material s thermochromatic inks the army wants fully addressable interactive camouflage she says so that when you re standing in front of bricks your clothing looks like bricks when you re in grass you look like grass accomplishing that would be like a space program for e textiles ,0
can anyone stop talking politics long enough to let me know that yes indeed they do remember the suburban lawns better yet tell me where i should be listening for new music now that pNUMBERp is dead and i still can t pick up kfjc very well joe give me time i will be clear given time you ll understand what possesses me to right what you have suffered i m in this mood because of scorn i m in a mood for total war to the darkened skies once more and ever onward ,0
gary lawrence murphy wrote r r a hettinga rah shipwright com writes r at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mr fork wrote free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies out of poverty i m not a socio political history buff does anybody have some clear examples r you re probably living in one or you wouldn t be able to post r here cool i wasn t aware that the us had lifted it s population out of poverty when did this happen i wonder where the media gets the idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening i wasn t aware that there was anyone who could use the words free trade about the united states and keep a straight face owen ,0
 anarchist scavenger hunt raises d c police ire sat sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm et washington reuters an online anarchist scavenger hunt proposed for next week s annual meeting of the international monetary fund news web sites and world bank news web sites here has raised the ire of police who fear demonstrators could damage property and wreak havoc break a mcdonald s window get NUMBER points puncture a washington d c police car tire to win NUMBER points score NUMBER points for a pie in the face of a corporate executive or world bank delegate d c assistant police chief terrance gainer told a congressional hearing on friday that law authorities were in talks to decide whether planned protests were so deleterious to security efforts that we ought to take proactive action several thousand people are expected to demonstrate outside the imf and world bank headquarters next weekend the anti capitalist convergence a d c based anarchist group is also planning a day long traffic blockade banner drops and protests against major corporations in the downtown core chuck the NUMBER year old webmaster of the anarchist site URL who declined to give his last name told reuters his scavenger hunt was meant as a joke people were asking for things to do when they come to d c we made the list to get people thinking so they don t do the boring standard stuff he said i doubt people will actually keep track of what they do for points ,0
 some interesting quotes URL thomas jefferson i have examined all the known superstitions of the word and i do not find in our particular superstition of christianity one redeeming feature they are all alike founded on fables and mythology millions of innocent men women and children since the introduction of christianity have been burnt tortured fined and imprisoned what has been the effect of this coercion to make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites to support roguery and error all over the earth six historic americans by john e remsburg letter to william short jefferson again christianity has become the most perverted system that ever shone on man rogueries absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by paul the first great corrupter of the teaching of jesus ,0
lol you rool on sat NUMBER sep NUMBER gregory alan bolcer wrote i went out and drew some chalk circles on my sidewalk just so i wouldn t miss out on the experience i ve collected half a dozen passwords access to email accounts so far greg bitbitch URL wrote hello fork so they have aaron schwartz on npr s weekend edition talking about warchalking i ll agree its funny his voice is squeaky and i m jealous that he got on radio and i didn t but really wtf is the big deal about warchalking i have yet to see any of it anywhere link will probably pop up on URL later today i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
 j joseph s barrera joseph writes j better yet tell me where i should be listening for new music j now that pNUMBERp is dead and i still can t pick up kfjc very well how about your local pub sorry couldn t resist i still use liveNUMBER slowly the disconnected stations are returning since the fee to stay on the air can be as low as NUMBER month and if your fave broadcaster won t pay you re given the option to pay for them gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
owen byrne wrote r a hettinga wrote begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote cool i wasn t aware that the us had lifted it s population out of poverty when did this happen i wonder where the media gets the idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening all the world loves a smartass seriously look at he life expectancy and human carrying capacity of this continent before the europeans got here look at it now even for descendants of the original inhabitants even for the descendents of slaves who were brought here by force more stuff cheaper that s progress poverty of course is not relative it s absolute disparity in wealth has nothing to do with it it s like saying that groups have rights when in truth only individuals do like group rights disparity in wealth is statistical sophistry besides even if you can t help the distribution industrial wealth is almost always transitory and so is relative poverty even when there are no confiscatory death taxes the NUMBERth anniversary forbes NUMBER just came out and only a few tens of people are still there since NUMBER a time which had significantly higher marginal taxes on wealth income and inheritance than we do now more to the point they re nowhere near the top lovely quote from the forbes NUMBER list and not a single astor vanderbilt or morgan rates a mention on the current forbes four hundred but you have to studiously ignore the NUMBER rockefellers NUMBER gettys NUMBER hearsts fords kelloggs wrigleys and so on there are more self made people on the list than i previously alluded to i made a mistake most of them seem to have ivy league educations or are ivy league dropouts suggesting to me that they weren t exactly poor to start with some of them have lovely self made stories like NUMBER johnston summerfield k jr track this persontrack this person URL see all bacon makers URL NUMBER self made source food URL coca cola quote URL executives URL news URL net worth NUMBER mil returnee hometown chattanooga tn marital status married NUMBER children grandfather james and partner landed first coca cola bottling franchise in NUMBER company passed down NUMBER generations to summerfield NUMBERs became largest independent coke bottler merged with coca cola enterprises NUMBER javascript openmap pol javascript openmap dist by a compensation committee owen ,0
 oh my janitor boom boom boom the best place for new music is right where it s always been college radio uci ucsd usd claremont s kspc ucla cal fullerton cal la cal pomona greg joseph s barrera iii wrote can anyone stop talking politics long enough to let me know that yes indeed they do remember the suburban lawns better yet tell me where i should be listening for new music now that pNUMBERp is dead and i still can t pick up kfjc very well joe ,0
reminds me of cheney during the vp debates when he declared his wealth was not the product of government favors URL m NUMBER good time to refresh our memories re iraq starting a debate on govt contracts gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of owen byrne sent sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to owen byrne cc gary lawrence murphy mr fork fork spamassassin taint org digital bearer settlement list subject re sed s united states roman empire g owen byrne wrote r a hettinga wrote begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote cool i wasn t aware that the us had lifted it s population out of poverty when did this happen i wonder where the media gets the idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening all the world loves a smartass seriously look at he life expectancy and human carrying capacity of this continent before the europeans got here look at it now even for descendants of the original inhabitants even for the descendents of slaves who were brought here by force more stuff cheaper that s progress poverty of course is not relative it s absolute disparity in wealth has nothing to do with it it s like saying that groups have rights when in truth only individuals do like group rights disparity in wealth is statistical sophistry besides even if you can t help the distribution industrial wealth is almost always transitory and so is relative poverty even when there are no confiscatory death taxes the NUMBERth anniversary forbes NUMBER just came out and only a few tens of people are still there since NUMBER a time which had significantly higher marginal taxes on wealth income and inheritance than we do now more to the point they re nowhere near the top lovely quote from the forbes NUMBER list and not a single astor vanderbilt or morgan rates a mention on the current forbes four hundred but you have to studiously ignore the NUMBER rockefellers NUMBER gettys NUMBER hearsts fords kelloggs wrigleys and so on there are more self made people on the list than i previously alluded to i made a mistake most of them seem to have ivy league educations or are ivy league dropouts suggesting to me that they weren t exactly poor to start with some of them have lovely self made stories like NUMBER johnston summerfield k jr track this persontrack this person URL acker NUMBERfprotected NUMBERfrich_tracker jhtml errorurl NUMBERfpeopletracker NUMBERferror jht ml personid NUMBER see all bacon makers URL isttype person resultsstart NUMBER resultshowmany NUMBER resultssortproperties NUMBERbnum berfieldNUMBER NUMBERc NUMBERbstringfieldNUMBER resultssortcategoryname rank searchparameterNUMBER NUMBER str NUMBERc NUMBERcpatcs NUMBERc NUMBERcbacon makers categoryNUMBER magazine section categoryNUMBER catego ry searchparameterNUMBER unset NUMBER self made source food URL isttype person resultsstart NUMBER resultshowmany NUMBER resultssortproperties NUMBERbnum berfieldNUMBER NUMBERc NUMBERbstringfieldNUMBER resultssortcategoryname rank searchparameterNUMBER NUMBERs tr NUMBERc NUMBERcpatcs NUMBERc NUMBERcfood categoryNUMBER industry coca cola quote URL tkr cce executives URL ce news URL net worth NUMBER mil returnee hometown chattanooga tn marital status married NUMBER children grandfather james and partner landed first coca cola bottling franchise in NUMBER company passed down NUMBER generations to summerfield NUMBERs became largest independent coke bottler merged with coca cola enterprises NUMBER javascript openmap pol javascript openmap dist by a compensation committee owen ,0
 a worthy study procrastination tool a few choice phrases from ol dubya himself and all our history says we believe in liberty and justice for all that when we see oppression we cry if you want to keep the peace you ve got to have the authorization to use force white house sep NUMBER NUMBER the united states will remain strong in our conviction that we must not and will not allow the world s worst leaders to hold the united states and our friends and allies blackmail or threaten us with the world s worst weapons whats truly sad about the united states and our friends and allies blackmail is that he said the same thing in the same speech in a paragraph or two before if you find a neighbor in need you re responsible for serving that neighbor in need you re responsible for loving a neighbor just like you d like to love yourself snerk this just begs for potty mouth comedy too bad the kids on southpark just aren t that political i want to send the signal to our enemy that you have aroused a compassionate and decent and mighty nation and we re going to hunt you down no i didn t make this one up louisville kentucky sep NUMBER NUMBER hee mkay URL best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
on saturday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm joseph s barrera iii wrote better yet tell me where i should be listening for new music now that pNUMBERp is dead and i still can t pick up kfjc very well kfjc has a mpNUMBER stream at URL i d also recommend URL i remember the suburban lawns but i don t know what became of them apropos of nothing spirited away is amazing go see it now whump ,0
oh they were plenty upset about the tea taxes but the crack down on colonial script certainly screwed over the american colonies and btw england as well dear ben franklin was right for the wrong reasons first of all the colonies were not prosperous compared to england proper second the issuance of colonial script had nothing to do with full employeement in fact it is almost inconceivable he would make that claim it sounds like a modern keynsian was creating an urban legend otoh the lack of sufficient circulating monetary instruments was economically crippling imagine trying to buy your supplies by offering ious on your own name and then trying to market exchange the paper as the merchant who took the iou the most common problem in the world is when a government prints too much money the effects are a complete disaster there are a lot of incentives that push governments into doing this even though it is incredibly stupid so almost all the literature talks about that but you can also screw an economy over by taking all the money out of circulation the fundamental cause of the american great depression was exactly this courtesy of the federal reserve board i don t think shifting the power to print money to the bank of canada had much effect and canada is still a prosperous country original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of gary lawrence murphy sent saturday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to mr fork cc fork URL subject re sed s united states roman empire g f fork list mr writes f free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift f whole societies out of poverty i m not a f socio political history buff does anybody have some clear f examples china ooops no wait scratch that there is one counter example that i can think of but it may not be precisely free trade markets when ben franklin first visited england he was asked why the colonies were so prosperous ben explained that they used colonial script a kind of barter dollar and increasing the supply of script ensured complete employment the british bankers were furious and immediately lobbied parliament to clamp down on the practice within a few years the colonies were rife with unemployment and poverty just like the rest of the empire according to questionable literature handed out by a fringe political party here in canada the founding fathers had no real complaint about tea taxes it was the banning of colonial script they were protesting if this is true then it comes right back to the forces that killed ned ludd s followers as to why popular opinion believes they were protesting a tea tax the same pamphlet claimed that canada was also a prosperous nation until by an act of parliament in the late NUMBER s or early NUMBER s the right to print money was removed from the juristiction of parliament and handed over to the bank of canada i ve wondered about all this certainly the timeline of the collapse of the canadian economy fits the profile but there are oodles of other causes for example spending money like we had NUMBERm people when we only had NUMBERm anyone have any further information on this gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of mr fork also the lifestyle of the remnants of those societies is on average only marginally above poverty even today as i understand it there is a huge difference between native americans who speak english at home and those who do not i don t have figures that separate those at hand though NUMBER american indians us pop as a whole families below poverty NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER persons below poverty NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER speak a language other than english NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER married couple families NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER median family income NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER per capita NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER note high income countries in NUMBER were defined as having over NUMBER NUMBER per capita american indians separated from the rest of the us society would still be considered a high income society ,0
clearly it is us nato sun ibm oss ussr ms where we want you to go in our NUMBER year plan sdw tom wrote im feeling a bit farklempt having spent the night at todais with the family so talk amongst yourself here ill give you a topic the current state of it can be thought of in terms of the cold war with the us and the uusr being ms and sun ibm oss does it matter which side is which apple as cuba and the us legal system as the un discuss sdw URL URL stephen d williams NUMBER wayside cir ashburn va NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERw NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERfax decNUMBER ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote most of them seem to have ivy league educations or are ivy league dropouts suggesting to me that they weren t exactly poor to start with actually if i remember correctly from discussion of the list s composition in forbes about five or six years ago the best way to get on the forbes NUMBER is to have no college at all can you say bootstraps boys and girls i knew you could given that an undergraduate liberal arts degree from a state school like say mine is nothing but stuff they should have taught you in a government run high school you ll probably get more of those on the forbes NUMBER as well as time goes on if we ever get around to having a good old fashioned government collapsing transfer payment depression an economic version of this summer s government forest conflagration caused by the same kind of innumeracy that not clear cutting enough forests did out west this summer that should motivate more than a few erst slackers out there including me to learn to actually feed themselves the next category on the forbes NUMBER list is someone with a terminal professional degree like an mba phd md etc from the best school possible why because as of about NUMBER the best way to get into harvard for instance is to be smart not rich don t take my word for it ask their admissions office look at the admissions stats over the years for proof meritocracy american style was invented at the ivy league after world war ii even stanford got the hint and of course chicago taught them all how right practically nobody who goes to a top NUMBER american institution of higher learning can actually afford to go there these days unless of course their parents who couldn t afford to go there themselves got terminal degrees in the last NUMBER years or so and their kids still had to get the grades and biased by intelligence test scores to get in the bizarre irony is that almost all of those people with terminal degrees until they actually own something and hire people or learn to make something for a living all day on a profit and loss basis persist in the practically insane belief like life after death that economics is some kind of zero sum game that dumb people who don t work hard for it make all the money and if someone is smart works hard and is rich then they stole their wealth somehow btw none of you guys out there holding the short end of this rhetorical stick can blame me for the fact that i m using it to beat you severely all over your collective head and shoulders you were apparently too dumb to grab the right end i went to missouri and i don t have a degree in anything actually useful much less a terminal one which means i m broker than anyone on this list it s just that you of all people lots with educations far surpassing my own should just plain know better the facts speak for themselves if you just open your eyes and look there are no epicycles the universe does not orbit the earth and economics is not a zero sum game the cost of anything including ignorance and destitution is the forgone alternative in this case intelligence and effort i will however admit to being educated waay past my level of competence and by the way you discuss economics so have you apparently btw if we ever actually had free markets in this country including the abolition of redistributive income and death taxes all those smart people in the forbes NUMBER would have more money and there would be more self made people on that list in addition most of the people who inherited money on the list would have much less of it not even relatively speaking finally practically all of that new money would have come from economic efficiency and not stolen from someone else investment bubbles or not that efficiency is called progress for those of you in the people s republics of berkeley or cambridge it means more and better stuff cheaper over time a terrible petit bourgeois concept apparently not worthy of teaching by the educational elite or you d know about it by now in economic terms it s also called an increase in general welfare and no virginia i m not talking about extorting money from someone who works and giving it to someone who doesn t in order to keep them from working and they can think of some politician as santa claus come election time in short then economics is not a zero sum game property is not theft the rich don t get rich off the backs of the poor and redistributionist labor theory of value happy horseshit is just that horseshit happy or otherwise to believe otherwise is quite literally given the time marx wrote capital and the manifesto romantic nonsense cheers rah begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER iqa awubpyNUMBERcpxhNUMBERjfNUMBERohaeqlasgcfzhsqmsvuyNUMBERgqjNUMBERwglNUMBERdwzkpihmanrur yyboc icylpNUMBERtlklNUMBERjpwefu zNUMBER end pgp signature r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 and say hello to the cool oooo this is going to cause some stir http www URL essl msu background html received via URL using satellites to monitor global climate change earth system science laboratory the university of alabama in huntsville for additional information dr john christy associate professor of atmospheric science earth system science laboratory the university of alabama in huntsville phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail christy URL dr roy spencer space scientist global hydrology climate center nasa marshall space flight center phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail roy spencer URL summary as part of an ongoing nasa uah joint project dr john christy of uah and dr roy spencer of nasa s marshall space flight center use data gathered by microwave sounding units msus on national oceanic and atmospheric administration tiros n satellites to get accurate direct measurements of atmospheric temperatures for almost all regions of the earth including remote deserts rain forests and oceans for which reliable temperature data are not otherwise available the accuracy and reliability of temperature data gathered by the satellites since january NUMBER has been confirmed by comparing the satellite data to independent temperature data a recent study NUMBER found a NUMBER percent agreement between the msu data and temperatures measured by thermometers suspended beneath weather balloons released by meteorologists for weather observations once the monthly temperature data is collected from the satellites and processed it is placed in a public computer file for immediate access by atmospheric scientists in the u s and abroad it has become the basis for a number of major studies in global climate change and is cited in reports from the intergovernmental panel on climate change gathering the data while traditional thermometers measure the temperature at a specific point in the air a microwave sounding unit on a satellite takes readings that are average temperatures in a huge volume of the atmosphere each of the more than NUMBER NUMBER readings per day per satellite is an average temperature for more than NUMBER NUMBER cubic kilometers of air the msu makes a direct measurement of the temperature by looking at microwaves emitted by oxygen molecules in the atmosphere the intensity of the microwave emissions their brightness varies according to temperature christy and spencer developed a method to take the data from several satellites and produce a unified temperature dataset verifying the accuracy of msu measurements a recent comparison NUMBER of temperature readings from two major climate monitoring systems microwave sounding units on satellites and thermometers suspended below helium balloons found a remarkable level of agreement between the two to verify the accuracy of temperature data collected by microwave sounding units christy compared temperature readings recorded by radiosonde thermometers to temperatures reported by the satellites as they orbited over the balloon launch sites he found a NUMBER percent correlation over the NUMBER year period of the study the overall composite temperature trends at those sites agreed to within NUMBER NUMBER degrees celsius about NUMBER NUMBER fahrenheit per decade the same results were found when considering only stations in the polar or arctic regions the idea was to determine the reliability of the satellite data by comparing it to an established independent measurement christy said if satellite data are reliable when the satellites are over the radiosonde sites that means you should be able to trust them everywhere else the NUMBER radiosondes reported an aggregate warming trend of NUMBER NUMBER degrees celsius about NUMBER NUMBER fahrenheit per decade since NUMBER over those NUMBER spots on the globe the satellites also recorded a warming trend NUMBER NUMBER degrees celsius about NUMBER NUMBER fahrenheit per decade globally however the satellite data show a cooling trend of NUMBER NUMBER degrees celsius per decade since the first noaa tiros n satellites went into service these NUMBER radiosonde launch sites are just not distributed evenly around the planet christy said they are not representative of the total globe radiosonde balloons are released from stations around the world usually at noon and midnight greenwich standard time as each balloon climbs from the surface to the stratosphere the temperature is measured and relayed to the ground by radio while there are more than NUMBER NUMBER radiosonde launch sites globally the data from many sites either are not readily available or are not consistently collected christy used data from NUMBER sites at which there has been long term systematic and reliable data collection these NUMBER radiosonde launch sites are in a box bounded by iceland trinidad truk island and alaska in an earlier study an upper air temperature record compiled by noaa from NUMBER daily weather balloon sites around the world indicated a NUMBER year climate trend of NUMBER NUMBER c per decade which was in exact agreement with the satellite data at that time christy said global coverage one advantage of the msu dataset is its global coverage microwave sounding units aboard noaa satellites directly measure the temperature of the atmosphere over more than NUMBER percent of the globe each satellite measures the temperature above most points on earth every NUMBER hours the global temperature that has been frequently reported from surface measurements is neither global in extent nor systematic in measurement method it neglects vast oceanic and continental regions including antarctica the brazilian rain forests the sahara desert and greenland the most commonly cited historical temperature dataset is from ground based thermometers more than NUMBER NUMBER thermometers worldwide provide almost instantaneous local temperature data through links to weather services and scientists most of these thermometers which are usually in small shelters about five feet above the ground are in areas easily accessible to people in the u s and other industrial countries these thermometers are most often found at airports the ground based network is extensive in north america europe russia china and japan it is less comprehensive in africa south america australia and across much of southern asia temperatures on the surface and vertically through the atmosphere are gathered daily by thermometers carried aloft by helium balloons radiosonde balloons are released from stations around the world usually at noon and midnight greenwich standard time while balloon release sites are scattered throughout the world they are concentrated in industrial nations there are more than NUMBER NUMBER radiosonde launch sites globally if they were evenly distributed around the world that would equal approximately one for every NUMBER NUMBER square miles of the earth s surface water temperatures which are used to derive estimates of atmospheric temperatures come from thermometers on piers and buoys and aboard ships of opportunity the ships record the temperature of water drawn in to cool their engines the water temperature data from these instruments is also not global in its coverage tending instead to be concentrated in heavily travelled shipping lanes and in harbors in the past NUMBER years a new system of approximately NUMBER deep ocean buoys has been established gathering both atmospheric and water temperature data instrument accuracy msu with nine satellites measuring the temperature over periods of from one to six years a method was devised to merge all the data into a single consistent time series each satellite has its own bias that if not calculated and removed would introduce spurious trends the biases are calculated by directly comparing each satellite with others in operation at that time periods of overlapping operation ranged from three months to three years and were sufficient to determine these biases because the msu instruments are so stable and have so many thousands of observations the biases between the satellites are known to within NUMBER NUMBER deg the final product removes these biases so that all data are referenced to a common base NUMBER to check the final product comparisons were made over a NUMBER year period with balloon measurements as stated above and the phenomenal agreement provided the independent validation necessary to conclude that the merging technique developed for this dataset was accurate instrument accuracy ground based thermometers of great concern to scientists is the lack of consistency in the way readings are taken and in the thermometer surroundings since most thermometers for which long term records exist are in towns and cities the effects of population growth and the construction of nearby roads parking lots runways and buildings may cause the temperature to rise a little due of urbanization this temperature change may be an artifact of a local asphalt effect rather than a long term widespread climate change instrument accuracy ships of opportunity while the temperature data collected by ships at sea is reported as a sea surface temperature this data reflects water temperatures from about three to NUMBER feet below the surface the level from which water is drawn into the ships the thousands of individual thermometers used to collect this data are not calibrated against a scientific standard nor is there a method for verifying the accuracy of either the thermometers or the reports matching temperature readings to specific times and places only in places where there are many overlapping observations can there be any confidence in their accuracy the scientists in NUMBER spencer and christy received the american meteorological society s special award they were honored for developing a global precise record of the earth s temperature from operational polar orbiting satellites fundamentally advancing our ability to monitor climate ams special awards are given to individuals or organizations not appropriately recognized by more specifically defined awards and who have made important contributions to the science or practice of meteorology or to the society in NUMBER spencer and christy received nasa s exceptional scientific achievement medal dr john christy christy began his scientific career as a senior research associate at uah in NUMBER after earning his b a NUMBER in mathematics from california state university fresno his m div NUMBER from golden gate baptist theological seminary and his m s NUMBER and ph d NUMBER degrees in atmospheric sciences from the university of illinois he was an instructor of mathematics at parkland college in champaign il NUMBER NUMBER an instructor of mathematics at the university of south dakota NUMBER NUMBER and an instructor of mathematical sciences at yankton s d college NUMBER NUMBER he also served as pastor of the grace baptist church in vermillion s d NUMBER NUMBER and as science master at baptist high school nyeri kenya NUMBER NUMBER he has published more than NUMBER refereed scientific papers christy serves on the noaa national scientific review panel for the national climatic data center and on noaa s pathfinder review panel he was an invited key contributor to the NUMBER intergovernmental panel on climate change s scientific assessment of climate change and served as a contributor to the NUMBER and NUMBER ipcc reports dr roy spencer spencer began his career as a research associate at the space science and engineering center in madison wi in NUMBER after earning his b s NUMBER in meteorology at the university of michigan and his m s NUMBER and ph d NUMBER degrees in meteorology from the university of wisconsin madison he was a universities space research association visiting scientist at msfc NUMBER NUMBER before joining the msfc staff in NUMBER he is the u s team leader for the multichannel microwave imaging radiometer team and has served on numerous committees relating to remote sensing he directs a program involving satellite and aircraft passive microwave data to build global climate data sets and to address climate research issues spencer is lead author on sixteen scientific papers bibliography NUMBER j r christy NUMBER climatic change vol NUMBER pp NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER j r christy r w spencer and r t mcnider NUMBER journal of climate vol NUMBER pp NUMBER NUMBER r w spencer j r christy and n c grody NUMBER journal of climate vol NUMBER pp NUMBER NUMBER r w spencer and j r christy NUMBER journal of climate vol NUMBER pp NUMBER see also URL URL URL URL gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
gary lawrence murphy wrote and say hello to the cool oooo this is going to cause some stir of course not some people just don t want to be confused by the facts summary as part of an ongoing nasa uah joint project dr john christy of uah and dr roy spencer of nasa s marshall space flight center use data gathered by microwave sounding units msus on national oceanic and atmospheric administration tiros n satellites to get accurate direct measurements of atmospheric temperatures for almost all regions of the earth but some plonker will come up with yet another computer model predicting global warming and storms and floods in NUMBER years even though it can t predict next week s weather and predict widespread cooling in some parts of the globe which is now part of global warming and will get plenty of publicity for even more conclusive scaremong h h h h h h h h h proof globally however the satellite data show a cooling trend of NUMBER NUMBER degrees celsius per decade since the first noaa tiros n satellites went into service umpteen studies have already shown that temperature variations when even detectable in the noise go either way depending on which data you look at of great concern to scientists is the lack of consistency in the way readings are taken the construction of nearby roads parking lots runways and buildings may cause the temperature to rise a little due of urbanization this temperature change may be an artifact of a local asphalt effect rather than a long term widespread climate change one study from vienna showed long term warming from thermometers at the airport and none from other sites another study with data from antarctica which was touted as supporting global warming while being free from this urbanization effect later turned out to be dominated by the time of day at which the airplane that made the measurements flew i may have mentioned this one bNUMBER there are no facts only interpretations friedrich nietzsche bullshit rob _ ,0
 in a message dated NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm rah URL writes the best way to get on the forbes NUMBER is historically real estate tom ,0
 URL the new york times september NUMBER NUMBER high altitude rambos by bob herbert dr bob rajcoomar a u s citizen and former military physician from lake worth fla found himself handcuffed and taken into custody last month in one of the many episodes of hysteria to erupt on board airliners in the u s since the sept NUMBER attacks dr rajcoomar was seated in first class on a delta airlines flight from atlanta to philadelphia on aug NUMBER when a passenger in the coach section began behaving erratically the passenger steven feuer had nothing to do with dr rajcoomar two u s air marshals got up from their seats in first class and moved back to coach to confront mr feuer who was described by witnesses as a slight man who seemed disoriented what ensued was terrifying when mr feuer refused to remain in his seat the marshals reacted as if they were trying out for the lead roles in hollywood s latest action extravaganza they handcuffed mr feuer hustled him into first class and restrained him in a seat next to dr rajcoomar the NUMBER or so passengers were now quite jittery dr rajcoomar asked to have his seat changed and a flight attendant obliged finding him another seat in first class the incident already scary could and should have ended there but the marshals were not ready to let things quiet down one of the marshals pulled a gun and brandished it at the passengers the marshals loudly demanded that all passengers remain in their seats and remain still they barked a series of orders no one should stand for any reason arms and legs should not extend into the aisles no one should try to visit the restroom the message could not have been clearer anyone who disobeyed the marshals was in danger of being shot the passengers were petrified with most believing that there were terrorists on the plane i was afraid there was going to be a gun battle in that pressurized cabin said senior judge james a lineberger of the philadelphia court of common pleas a veteran of NUMBER years in the military who was sitting in an aisle seat in coach i was afraid that i was going to die from the gunfire in a shootout dr rajcoomar s wife dorothy who was seated quite a distance from her husband said it was really like rambo in the air she worried that there might be people on the plane who did not speak english and therefore did not understand the marshals orders if someone got up to go to the bathroom he or she might be shot there were no terrorists on board there was no threat of any kind when the plane landed about half an hour later mr feuer was taken into custody and then shockingly so was dr rajcoomar the air marshals grabbed the doctor from behind handcuffed him and for no good reason that anyone has been able to give hauled him to an airport police station where he was thrown into a filthy cell this was airline security gone berserk no one ever suggested that dr rajcoomar a straight arrow retired army major had done anything wrong dr rajcoomar who is of indian descent said he believes he was taken into custody solely because of his brown skin he was held for three frightening hours and then released without being charged mr feuer was also released officials tried to conceal the names of the marshals but they were eventually identified by a philadelphia inquirer reporter as shawn b mccullers and samuel mumma of the transportation security administration which is part of the u s transportation department the transportation security administration has declined to discuss the incident in detail a spokesman offered the absurd explanation that dr rajcoomar was detained because he had watched the unfolding incident too closely if that becomes a criterion for arrest in the u s a lot of us reporters are headed for jail dr rajcoomar told me yesterday that he remains shaken by the episode i had never been treated like that in my life he said i was afraid that i was about to be beaten up or killed lawyers for the american civil liberties union have taken up his case and he has filed notice that he may sue the federal government for unlawful detention we have to take a look at what we re doing in the name of security said dr rajcoomar so many men and women have fought and died for freedom in this great country and now we are in danger of ruining that in the name of security r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 URL the wall street journal september NUMBER NUMBER commentary rebuild at ground zero by larry silverstein earlier this month we new yorkers observed the solemn anniversary of the horrific events that befell our city on sept NUMBER NUMBER all of those who perished must never be forgotten the footprints of the fallen twin towers and a portion of the NUMBER acre site must be dedicated to a memorial and civic amenities that recall the sacrifices that were made there and the anguish that those senseless acts of terror created for the victims families and indeed for all of us but for the good of the city and the region the NUMBER million plus square feet of commercial and retail space that was destroyed with the twin towers must be replaced on the site about NUMBER NUMBER people worked in the world trade center those jobs are lost along with those of another NUMBER NUMBER people who worked in the vicinity together those jobs in lower manhattan for which the trade center was the economic stimulus produced annual gross wages of about NUMBER billion or NUMBER of the annual gross wages earned in the entire state some of the firms have relocated elsewhere in the city and region but many have not new york city is facing a budget deficit without additional jobs the deficit may become permanent this is one reason for the importance of rebuilding if we do not replace the lost space lower manhattan never will regain the vibrancy it had as the world s financial center love them or hate them and there were lots of new yorkers on both sides of the issue the towers made a powerful statement to the world that said this is new york a symbol of our free economy and of our way of life that is why they were destroyed this is a second reason why the towers must be replaced and with buildings that make a potent architectural statement in recent weeks redevelopment proposals have been circulated from many sources most of these focus not on the trade center site however but on all of lower manhattan further many believe that the NUMBER million square feet either could be located elsewhere scattered in several sites or simply never rebuilt these proposals miss the point what was destroyed and what must be recovered was the trade center not all of lower manhattan except over the towers footprints where there must be no commercial development the office and retail space lost has to be rebuilt on or close to where it was access to mass transit makes the site ideal for office space of this size that was a major reason why the twin towers were leased to NUMBER occupancy before NUMBER NUMBER none of the other sites proposed for office development has remotely equal transportation access with the reconstruction of the subway and path stations plus an additional NUMBER NUMBER billion in transit improvements planned such as the new fulton transit center and the direct train to the plane long island rail road connection the site becomes even more the logical locus of office development and new york will need the space before NUMBER NUMBER the group of NUMBER a task force of civic leaders led by sen charles schumer and former treasury secretary robert rubin concluded that the city would need an additional NUMBER million square feet of new office space by NUMBER to accommodate the anticipated addition of NUMBER NUMBER new jobs the loss of the twin towers only heightens the need as for those who say that NUMBER million square feet of office space downtown cannot be absorbed by the real estate market i would simply point out that history shows them wrong new york now has about NUMBER million square feet of office space all new construction underway already is substantially leased up new york had NUMBER million square feet of vacant office space at the beginning of the recession in NUMBER by NUMBER this space had been absorbed at an annual rate of about NUMBER million square feet we are seeking to rebuild NUMBER million square feet on the trade center site over a period of about NUMBER years with the first buildings not coming on line until NUMBER and the project reaching completion in NUMBER this is an annual absorption rate of about a million feet much lower than the NUMBERs rate those who argue that new york cannot reabsorb office space that it previously had are saying that the city has had its day and is entering an extended period of stagnation and decline i will not accept this view nor will most new yorkers mayor michael bloomberg said in a recent interview with the new york times that the city has to do two things memorialize but also build for the future i believe that the twin towers site can gracefully accommodate and that downtown requires office and retail space of architectural significance a dignified memorial that both witnesses and recalls what happened and cultural amenities that would benefit workers as well as residents of the area the challenge to accomplish this is enormous but our city is up to the task mr silverstein is president of silverstein properties a real estate firm whose affiliates hold NUMBER year leases on the world trade center site r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 destined to be a new reality tv show anarchist scavenger hunt raises d c police ire sat sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm et washington reuters an online anarchist scavenger hunt proposed for next week s annual meeting of the international monetary fund news web sites and world bank news web sites here has raised the ire of police who fear demonstrators could damage property and wreak havoc break a mcdonald s window get NUMBER points puncture a washington d c police car tire to win NUMBER points score NUMBER points for a pie in the face of a corporate executive or world bank delegate d c assistant police chief terrance gainer told a congressional hearing on friday that law authorities were in talks to decide whether planned protests were so deleterious to security efforts that we ought to take proactive action several thousand people are expected to demonstrate outside the imf and world bank headquarters next weekend the anti capitalist convergence a d c based anarchist group is also planning a day long traffic blockade banner drops and protests against major corporations in the downtown core chuck the NUMBER year old webmaster of the anarchist site URL who declined to give his last name told reuters his scavenger hunt was meant as a joke people were asking for things to do when they come to d c we made the list to get people thinking so they don t do the boring standard stuff he said i doubt people will actually keep track of what they do for points ,0
r a hettinga wrote begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote most of them seem to have ivy league educations or are ivy league dropouts suggesting to me that they weren t exactly poor to start with actually if i remember correctly from discussion of the list s composition in forbes about five or six years ago the best way to get on the forbes NUMBER is to have no college at all can you say bootstraps boys and girls i knew you could sure discussion in forbes rigorous research that especially when the data in their own list contradicts them i continue to look at the list and all the inherited growed entries i guess if i read it enough times my vision will clear given that an undergraduate liberal arts degree from a state school like say mine is nothing but stuff they should have taught you in a government run high school you ll probably get more of those on the forbes NUMBER as well as time goes on if we ever get around to having a good old fashioned government collapsing transfer payment depression an economic version of this summer s government forest conflagration caused by the same kind of innumeracy that not clear cutting enough forests did out west this summer that should motivate more than a few erst slackers out there including me to learn to actually feed themselves the next category on the forbes NUMBER list is someone with a terminal professional degree like an mba phd md etc from the best school possible why because as of about NUMBER the best way to get into harvard for instance is to be smart not rich don t take my word for it ask their admissions office look at the admissions stats over the years for proof i at on point looked into stanford business school after learning that tuition was NUMBERk no financial aid was available and part time work was disallowed this smart person decided that i was not willing to spend the NUMBER application fee non refundable during attendance at my local business school i was told repeatedly i should have gone for it to quote a prof northwestern mba it has nothing to do with the education you receive in general european and canadian business schools are better and more innovative its the connections he used the words american nobility meritocracy american style was invented at the ivy league after world war ii even stanford got the hint and of course chicago taught them all how right practically nobody who goes to a top NUMBER american institution of higher learning can actually afford to go there these days unless of course their parents who couldn t afford to go there themselves got terminal degrees in the last NUMBER years or so and their kids still had to get the grades and biased by intelligence test scores to get in invented being the right word dubya went to yale and hbs i guess practically gets you around that problem the bizarre irony is that almost all of those people with terminal degrees until they actually own something and hire people or learn to make something for a living all day on a profit and loss basis persist in the practically insane belief like life after death that economics is some kind of zero sum game that dumb people who don t work hard for it make all the money and if someone is smart works hard and is rich then they stole their wealth somehow btw none of you guys out there holding the short end of this rhetorical stick can blame me for the fact that i m using it to beat you severely all over your collective head and shoulders you were apparently too dumb to grab the right end i went to missouri and i don t have a degree in anything actually useful much less a terminal one which means i m broker than anyone on this list it s just that you of all people lots with educations far surpassing my own should just plain know better the facts speak for themselves if you just open your eyes and look there are no epicycles the universe does not orbit the earth and economics is not a zero sum game the cost of anything including ignorance and destitution is the forgone alternative in this case intelligence and effort i will however admit to being educated waay past my level of competence and by the way you discuss economics so have you apparently its interesting but in this part of the world nova scotia a recent study found that college graduates earn less than graduates of NUMBER year community colleges trade schools they did decline to mention that the demand for some trades is so great that some of them are demanding university degrees to get in just for the record the average salary for a university graduate including advanced degree holders here is c NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER us no wonder half of san francisco has set up here we have a whole whack of call centers that have arrived here in the last couple of years i think they hire some entry level it people for around NUMBER NUMBER us an hour which of course fits perfectly for me my entry level job in NUMBER paid NUMBER NUMBER an hour the fundamental difference is that most of the jobs that require a trade are unionized in other words in this part of the world for the vast majority of people union dues are a better investment than tuition the counter argument to this is that many college graduates leave for better work elsewhere but the counter counter argument is that we are the thin edge one of several really prison labor in the us would be another of third world wages and work practices coming to north america i worked at a company that had a NUMBER year wage freeze the fact that they could maintain that and prosper just says volumes about the economy in this part of the world i met many people there like me who felt that was fine i can vote with my feet they didn t quite realize that just about every large employer in the area has similar or worse policies anyway eventually they started a union drive during the vote retired employees were brought in by the employer rumours were that they were paid the going rate for a vote around here a bottle of rum and somehow allowed to vote the union filed a grievance which was denied by a minister of labour who hey guess what used to be a vp at the company that s free labor markets at work the business continues to prosper as i was told when i was there it is a cash cow as long as the joa joint operating agreement with the competing paper is in place and if you think that any of those wonderful american companies out of some free enterprise belief in competing for the best talent are going to do anything about that sorry most of them received generous subsidies in return i m sure for an understanding about the labor markets here btw if we ever actually had free markets in this country including the abolition of redistributive income and death taxes all those smart people in the forbes NUMBER would have more money and there would be more self made people on that list in addition most of the people who inherited money on the list would have much less of it not even relatively speaking finally practically all of that new money would have come from economic efficiency and not stolen from someone else investment bubbles or not that efficiency is called progress for those of you in the people s republics of berkeley or cambridge it means more and better stuff cheaper over time a terrible petit bourgeois concept apparently not worthy of teaching by the educational elite or you d know about it by now in economic terms it s also called an increase in general welfare and no virginia i m not talking about extorting money from someone who works and giving it to someone who doesn t in order to keep them from working and they can think of some politician as santa claus come election time much as i like to accept what you say i do believe in free markets i have difficulty finding any except of course for labor markets which governments go to great lengths to protect well unless the supply is tight it was a great run with the technology industry producing most of the self made billionaires on the list but now we ve got a government sponsored monopoly and the concept of more stuff cheaper which it has always promised seems to be disappearing a particularly galling example is high speed internet access an article i read a couple of years ago that it is an area where the pricing approaches of the it industry cheaper better or you die and the telecom industry maintain your monopoly through regulation and get guaranteed price increases through the same regulators meet sadly to say the telecom industry seems to have won the whole entertainment industry riaa palladium thing seems to be another instance where actually giving value to the customer seems less important than using regulation to reduce competition and substitute products in order to produce profits for the favored few in short then economics is not a zero sum game property is not theft the rich don t get rich off the backs of the poor and redistributionist labor theory of value happy horseshit is just that horseshit happy or otherwise to believe otherwise is quite literally given the time marx wrote capital and the manifesto romantic nonsense i usually agree but when there s a republican in office i feel like they re the biggest believers in the manifesto in reverse create a reserve pool of labor reduce the rights of that proletariat you ve just created with bogus law and order policies concentrate capital in the hands of a few ideally people who can get you reelected and the economy will take care of itself oh and lie use the word compassionate a lot i guess i tend to believe that a certain amount of poverty reduction actually helps a modern capitalist state the basic economic tenet of the republic party seems to be the more homeless under each overpass the more efficient the rest of us will be and the facts are for most people in the western world are declining standards of living declining benefits disappearing social safety net greater working hours essentially since the entrance of women into the work force not blaming women in any way they have a right to work but its now NUMBER wage earners in each family and still declining standards of living is the reality again to quote that wonderfully liberal document i keep coming back to the cia world factbook on the us economy since NUMBER practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top NUMBER of households owen ,0
hmm if the shoe fits i think these five attributes could more or less describe various actions of the us over the past decade or so in the NUMBERs we witnessed the emergence of a small number of rogue states that while different in important ways share a number of attributes these states brutalize their own people and squander their national resources for the personal gain of the rulers the first part of this doesn t really fit except in isolated cases certainly not en mass the second part though hmm display no regard for international law threaten their neighbors and callously violate international treaties to which they are party well think about it are determined to acquire weapons of mass destruction along with other advanced military technology to be used as threats or offensively to achieve the aggressive designs of these regimes we already have weapons of mass destruction but are actively developing bigger and better ones sponsor terrorism around the globe and heheh anyone know about the school of the americas what about the monies supplies and training that supported the contra rebels oh i forgot their government was bad and needed to be overthrown with out help reject basic human values and hate the united states and everything for which it stands basic human values like the first ammendment the fourth ammendment sorry shrub your political newspeak is falling on deaf ears oh sorry maybe i should self censor my thoughts to avoid being put in a re education camp by ashcrofts gestappo gads maybe someone on fork has joined your t i p s program and became an official citizen spy in disgust elias ,0
 too much information the saying as i recall is along the lines of put your best foot forward in this case you seem to have put everything forward in a fosbury flop consisting of the best foot the worst foot enough arms for a diety and his consort and even a set of spare limbs from hoffa or the space aliens or whatever it is you keep locked up in the trunk of the bonneville replied in one go in a matter of minutes i do really think this way complete with footnotes so if it s too much information i still stand by my reply i wouldn t be myself if i started off playing games pascal could write short letters when he had the time is editing to provide an executive summary really being untrue to yourself we are all used to a full bore real time rohit streaming but that s because we are already friends of and know to set our buffers accordingly for a stranger s sake it may be best to provide the elevator pitch rohit and negotiate upwards only after a session has been established dave thomas jefferson writes i served with general washington in the legislature of virginia before the revolution and during it with dr franklin in congress i never heard either of them speak for as long as ten minutes at a time ,0
 sorry shrub your political newspeak is falling on deaf ears oh sorry maybe i should self censor my thoughts to avoid being put in a re education camp by ashcrofts gestappo gads maybe someone on fork has joined your t i p s program and became an official citizen spy in disgust elias well the message was clear to me the us wants to start an arms race to jack up their world arms sales monopoly owen ,0
 gary lawrence murphy wrote and say hello to the cool oooo this is going to cause some stir of course not some people just don t want to be confused by the facts for anyone to fully bury global warming they would need to explain why the dramatic increase in coNUMBER concentrations are not increasing the global temperature they would also need to explain why worldwide glaciers are melting faster than they have previously in the historical record that is people need more than refutations they need a compelling alternate explanation hint climate variability doesn t cover all the bases jim ,0
 j jim whitehead ejw cse ucsc edu writes j for anyone to fully bury global warming they would need to j explain why the dramatic increase in coNUMBER concentrations are not j increasing the global temperature they would also need to j explain why worldwide glaciers are melting faster than they j have previously in the historical record the associated links cover that the surface temperature in spots frequented by people is warmer hence all our groundbased sensors reporting global warming although the overall environmental temperature is decreasing apparently the real news is not that there is no global warming but that our models of the warming were seriously flawed by naive convection models this too was not news to the theoreticians all that has happened is that nasa has confirmed the naiive convection concerns gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 the historical record by which you mean human historical record is highly overrated nigh worthless when you are talking about geological timescales even on topics with as short a timescale as climate my problem with global warming or cooling for that matter is that the supposedly profound recent changes in temperature both in absolute terms and as a function time very arguably fall well below the noise floor of the natural fluctuations that have occurred over the last NUMBER NUMBER years both in terms of absolute average temperature and the rate of temperature change people unfamiliar with history of global temperature since the advent of modern humans may think that a degree here or there over a century is a lot not realizing that global temperatures regularly whipsaw with far greater extremity i therefore immediately dismiss any theory of global warming that cannot explain why temperatures whipsawed more severely in pre history than in the last couple thousand years which have been relatively calm by geological standards this is a very inconvenient fact for people trying to use climate to push a particular social agenda it is worth noting that underneath the receding glaciers deposited during the last major ice age they are finding substantial evidence of humans living in what was a nice temperate climate before the glaciers paved over their civilization the receding glaciers have turned into a bit of an archaeological treasure chest as they expose artifacts buried in and underneath them as they shrink that have been preserved by the ice for thousands of years i don t see any compelling reason to save the glaciers anyway particularly in light of the fact that their existence has always been transient for anyone to insist that the current negligible fluctuations are anthropogenic just heaps one ridiculous assertion upon another i ll just stick with occam s razor for now in my humble opinion cheers james rogers jamesr URL on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER jim whitehead wrote for anyone to fully bury global warming they would need to explain why the dramatic increase in coNUMBER concentrations are not increasing the global temperature they would also need to explain why worldwide glaciers are melting faster than they have previously in the historical record that is people need more than refutations they need a compelling alternate explanation hint climate variability doesn t cover all the bases ,0
 for anyone to fully bury global warming they would have to bury the greens a green once said that if the spotted owl hadn t existed they would have had to invent it so it is with global warming their fundamental opposition isn t to a warmer earth it is to industrial civilization the fact that the sattelites didn t match what the global warming theorists said should be there is old news the news here is that the temperature measures via sattelite have gotten even better and they have been validated with a different means of measurement rather than have to defend coNUMBER concentrations as not causing global warming people who believe in coNUMBER need a good explanation of the medieval warm period said period was warmer than what we have now and it obvioiusly wasn t caused by coNUMBER in point of fact the predicted global warming due to coNUMBER is not caused directly by coNUMBER coNUMBER doesn t trap that much heat water vapor does and if you can get more water vapor in the air due to coNUMBER then you have your warming theory yet it would seem that the very stability of the earth s climate over long periods argues not for an unstable system with positive feedback loops but one where negative feedback loops predominate more water vapor can increase temperatuers but that also leads to more clouds clouds both trap heat and reflect it so it depends a great deal on how the cloud formation shakes out most climate models admit they do clouds very poorly a good link is URL NUMBERa original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of jim whitehead sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to robert harley fork URL subject re goodbye global warming gary lawrence murphy wrote and say hello to the cool oooo this is going to cause some stir of course not some people just don t want to be confused by the facts for anyone to fully bury global warming they would need to explain why the dramatic increase in coNUMBER concentrations are not increasing the global temperature they would also need to explain why worldwide glaciers are melting faster than they have previously in the historical record that is people need more than refutations they need a compelling alternate explanation hint climate variability doesn t cover all the bases jim ,0
 j for anyone to fully bury global warming they would need to j explain why the dramatic increase in coNUMBER concentrations are not j increasing the global temperature you have not explained why the increase in coNUMBER concentrations is not contributing to increasing global temperature this too was not news to the theoreticians all that has happened is that nasa has confirmed the naiive convection concerns precisely which theoreticians do you mean what exactly do you mean by a global warming theoretician scientists in this area don t use that term i assure you that not all scientists performing modeling of global temperature phenomena agree with your assertions jim ,0
 the historical record by which you mean human historical record is highly overrated nigh worthless when you are talking about geological timescales even on topics with as short a timescale as climate there has been a significant recent increase in global coNUMBER concentrations the vast preponderance of the new coNUMBER in the atmosphere is due to human activity starting around the industrialization of europe and accelerating after wwii most scientists studying global climate change believe that these increased coNUMBER concentrations are the primary causal agent for increased global warming hence our interest in items of human time scale it is worth noting that underneath the receding glaciers deposited during the last major ice age they are finding substantial evidence of humans living in what was a nice temperate climate before the glaciers paved over their civilization the receding glaciers have turned into a bit of an archaeological treasure chest as they expose artifacts buried in and underneath them as they shrink that have been preserved by the ice for thousands of years i don t see any compelling reason to save the glaciers anyway particularly in light of the fact that their existence has always been transient most global climate change scientists would agree that temperatures in the past have often been much warmer than today the point of global warming isn t to save the earth the planet is not sentient the point is to understand and potentially reduce the impact of increasing temperatures on global human activity for anyone to insist that the current negligible fluctuations are anthropogenic just heaps one ridiculous assertion upon another i ll just stick with occam s razor for now the increase in atmospheric coNUMBER concentration is due to human activity it is generally accepted that increases in coNUMBER in a closed environment subject to solar heating retain more of that solar energy this is the current best explanation for the high temperature of venus if the coNUMBER concentration goes up globally which it has then theory states the earth should be retaining greater solar energy this process may be slow and may be difficult to monitor due to the variability of temperatures worldwide i encourage you to refute any part of this causal chain linking coNUMBER to eventual increases in global energy content part of which will be evident as heat jim ,0
 original message from james rogers jamesr best com it is worth noting that underneath the receding glaciers deposited during the last major ice age they are finding substantial evidence of humans living in what was a nice temperate climate before the glaciers paved over their civilization the receding glaciers have turned into a bit of an archaeological treasure chest as they expose artifacts buried in and underneath them as they shrink that have been preserved by the ice for thousands of years got bits ,0
 original message from john hall johnhall evergo net a green once said that if the spotted owl hadn t existed they would have had to invent it a republican once said i am not a crook ,0
 a green once said that if the spotted owl hadn t existed they would have had to invent it a republican once said i am not a crook oh great another round of lableisms let me know when you get back to real data ,0
 i did not have sex with that woman original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of mr fork sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject re goodbye global warming original message from john hall johnhall evergo net a green once said that if the spotted owl hadn t existed they would have had to invent it a republican once said i am not a crook ,0
i ve seen articles on this type of stuff passing through various forums for several years i ve always found archaeology interesting for no particular reason here is a recent article from u s news that i actually still have in the dank recesses of my virtual repository james rogers jamesr URL URL defrosting the past ancient human and animal remains are melting out of glaciers a bounty of a warming world by alex markels as he hiked near colorado s continental divide in the summer of NUMBER ed knapp noticed a strange shape jutting from a melting ice field at NUMBER NUMBER feet it looked like a bison skull the building contractor and amateur archaeologist recalls i thought that s strange bison don t live this high up knapp brought the skull to the denver museum of nature and science where scientists last month announced that it was indeed from a bison one that died about NUMBER years ago this was an extraordinary discovery says russ graham the museum s chief curator adding that it could alter notions of the mountain environment centuries ago there s probably a lot more like it yet to be found and not just bison colorado isn t the only place where glaciers and snowfields are melting decades of unusual warmth in regions from peru to alaska a trend some think is linked to emissions from cars and industry have shrunk or thawed many of the world s NUMBER NUMBER glaciers as the ice recedes a treasure trove of human and animal artifacts is emerging extraordinarily well preserved after centuries in the deep freeze the fabrics wood bone and dna rich tissue found on the mucky fringes of the ice are revising scientists understanding of our predecessors health habits and technology and the prey they pursued it s mind boggling how many different fields are being advanced through studying these remains says johan reinhard a high altitude archaeologist and explorer in residence at the national geographic society rare spectacular finds like the frozen mummies he discovered in the andes of peru in the NUMBERs and the legendary NUMBER NUMBER year old ice man found at the edge of a receding glacier in the alps in NUMBER have offered time capsules of cultural and biological information now as the ice continues to retreat it is yielding not just occasional treasures but long records of humans and animals in the high mountains vanishing act the trick is finding such specimens before mother nature and looters take them first once uncovered frozen remains can deteriorate within hours or be gnawed by animals moreover they re often so well preserved when they emerge that people who come upon them don t even realize they re ancient that was the case when three men hunting sheep near a high glacier in british columbia canada three years ago saw what they thought was a dead animal it looked a little like sealskin buried in the ice recalls warren ward a teacher from nearby nelson but when i looked closer i could see leather fringe from a coat and finger bones figuring they had found the remains of another hunter or perhaps a fur trapper the men stowed a flint knife and other artifacts in a zip loc bag and delivered them to local officials archaeologists later exhumed the fallen hunter s body along with a woven hat fur clothing and what seemed to be a medicine bag carbon dating revealed that the hunter lived about NUMBER years ago dubbed kwaday dan ts inchi or long ago person found by people of the champagne and aishihik first nations who may be his direct descendants he is perhaps the best preserved human from the period ever found in north america other findings from melting ice in the neighboring yukon region could explain what that long ago person was doing in the mountains in the first place before this there was no archaeological record of people living here says greg hare a yukon government archaeologist now we see that this area was very much part of people s seasonal activities like ward s discovery the search began by chance when kristin benedek caught a whiff of what smelled like a barnyard as she and her husband gerry kuzyk hunted sheep at NUMBER NUMBER feet in the mountains of the south yukon they followed the scent to a melting patch of ice covered in caribou dung it was really odd because i knew there hadn t been caribou in the area for at least NUMBER years recalls kuzyk then a wildlife biologist with the yukon government caribou cake returning a week later he found what looked like a pencil with string wrapped around it it turned out to be a NUMBER NUMBER year old atlatl or spear thrower further investigation of the ice patch and scores of others around the region revealed icy layer cakes filled with caribou remains and human detritus chronicling NUMBER NUMBER years of changing hunting practices scientists now believe ancient caribou and other animals flocked to the ice each summer to cool down and escape swarming mosquitoes and flies hunters followed the game they returned for centuries and discarded some equipment in the ice we ve got people hunting with throwing darts up until NUMBER NUMBER years ago says hare who now oversees the research project then we see the first appearance of the bow and arrow about NUMBER NUMBER years ago and by NUMBER NUMBER years ago there s no more throwing darts now scientists are trying to make the search less a matter of luck they are developing sophisticated computer models that combine data on where glaciers are melting fastest and where humans and animals are known to have migrated to pinpoint the best places to search in alaska s wrangell and st elias mountain ranges the united states most glaciated terrain and in the andes johan reinhard thinks the fast thawing european alps could also deliver more findings perhaps as exquisite as the ice man global warming is providing us high altitude archaeologists with some fantastic opportunities right now we re probably about the only ones happy about it ,0
 a cheeky letter to the editors of the economist follows along with the article i was commenting on rohit in your article about chinese attempts to censor google last week the search goes on sept NUMBERth the followup correctly noted that the most subversive aspect of google s service is not its card catalog which merely points surfers in the right direction but the entire library by maintaining what amounts to a live backup of the entire world wide web if you can get to google s cache you can read anything you d like the techniques chinese internet service providers are using to enforce these rules however all depend on the fact that traffic to and from google or indeed almost all public websites is unencrypted almost all web browsers however include support for secure sockets layer ssl encryption for securing credit card numbers and the like upgrading to ssl makes it effectively impossible for a man in the middle to meddle censorship would have to be imposed on each individual computer in china the only choice left is to either ban the entire site range of ip addresses but not the kind of selective filtering reported on in the article of course the additional computing power to encrypt all this traffic costs real money if the united states is so concerned about the free flow of information why shouldn t the broadcasting board of governors sponsor an encrypted interface to google or for that matter the rest of the web to date public diplomacy efforts have focused on public sector programming for the voice of america radio sawa and the like just imagine if the us government got into the business of subsidizing secure access to private sector media instead nothing illustrates the freedom of the press as much as the wacky excess of the press itself and most of it is already salted away at google and the internet archive project on second thought i can hardly imagine this administration promoting the use of encryption to uphold privacy rights never mind best rohit khare the search goes on china backtracks on banning google up to a point sep NUMBERth NUMBER beijing from the economist print edition in chinese the nickname for google an american internet search engine is gougou meaning doggy for the country s fast growing population of internet users NUMBERm according to an official estimate it is proving an elusive creature earlier this month the chinese authorities blocked access to google from internet service providers in china apparently because the search engine helped chinese users to get access to forbidden sites now after an outcry from those users access has been restored an unusual climbdown by china s zealous internet censors hardly more sophisticated controls have now been imposed that make it difficult to use google to search for material deemed offensive to the government access is still blocked to the cached versions of web pages taken by google as it trawls the internet these once provided a handy way for chinese users to see material stored on blocked websites after the blocking of google on august NUMBERst many chinese internet users posted messages on bulletin boards in china protesting against the move their anger was again aroused last week when some chinese internet providers began rerouting users trying to reach the blocked google site to far less powerful search engines in china duncan clark the head of a beijing based technology consultancy firm bda china ltd says china is trying a new tactic in its efforts to censor the internet until recently it had focused on blocking individual sites including all pages stored on them now it seems to be filtering data transmitted to or from foreign websites to search for key words that might indicate undesirable content for example earlier this week when using eastnet a beijing based internet provider a search on google for falun gong a quasi buddhist exercise sect outlawed in china usually aborted before all the results had time to appear such a search also rendered google impossible to use for several minutes ,0
 how about this a bored forker said yawn i believe tom had it right signal not noise i ll start los angeles times september NUMBER NUMBER monday copyright NUMBER los angeles times los angeles times september NUMBER NUMBER monday home edition section main news main news part NUMBER page NUMBER national desk length NUMBER words byline dana calvo times staff writer dateline seattle body the idea came at the end of a long frustrating brown bag session at a public policy think tank here the challenge was to save the city s child care programs staring into his empty coffee cup the meeting coordinator s mind landed on an unlikely solution put a tax just a benign dime a shot on espresso that led to a petition signed by more than NUMBER NUMBER seattle residents and next year voters will decide whether the tax becomes law one that taps right into seattle s legendary addiction to coffee this is after all the town where starbucks was born and where the NUMBER pound of beans became a staple there is one starbucks for every NUMBER NUMBER residents in seattle compared to one per NUMBER NUMBER in new york seattle also has two other major coffee chains tully s coffee and seattle s best coffee as well as countless cafes and espresso carts a recent poll showed that NUMBER of seattle residents would vote for the tax for people outside of seattle who don t understand the consumption of espresso the tax proposal can be seen as crazy said john burbank the think tank s executive director but it was common sense research by his nonprofit economic opportunity institute showed that people preferred a tax on liquor or beer over one on espresso but because of the large number of lattes and cappuccinos sold a tax on espresso could be lower than one levied on alcohol burbank estimates the tax could generate NUMBER million to NUMBER million a year city council aides dispute his figures saying their research shows the tax would bring in NUMBER NUMBER million to NUMBER million a year burbank s institute is funded by foundations and labor unions the think tank s mission is to promote public policy in the interests of low income people and it has long championed child care issues burbank says the tax would restore cuts to the child care programs made earlier this year by gov gary locke he also says it would provide more low income families with subsidies for child care improve preschool programs and increase teacher salaries at bauhaus books coffee the sidewalk is dotted with tables of customers for whom coffee is a half day activity not just a drink espresso lovers like chris altman who at a dime a day would spend an extra NUMBER NUMBER a year said the investment is worth it i m ok with it said the NUMBER year old stirring his iced latte the money s got to come from somewhere hope revuelto NUMBER was cooling her regular coffee NUMBER because she brought her own mug and reading zen and the art of pottery she supports the initiative and said its critics are behaving as would be expected of espresso drinkers they want the most expensive thing on the menu but resist paying NUMBER cents to help the needy some say the tax isn t the issue they just resent being singled out david marsh NUMBER a costume manager drinks up to three espressos a day which means he d be shelling out an extra NUMBER NUMBER a year i for one don t have kids but i drink espresso he said as he sewed a leather collar onto a chain mail tunic i don t mind paying but i think everyone should pay coffeehouses are steamed about it and they ve organized as jolt joined to oppose the latte tax among the members are seattle s chamber of commerce and the city s two largest coffee franchises starbucks and tully s the tax would force coffeehouses to track sales of any beverage that contains espresso a task that could be an administrative nightmare for smaller cafes especially during the frantic morning rush if espresso counts come under suspicion coffeehouse owners could face a city audit university of chicago economics professor michael greenstone said the tax doesn t add up the purpose of any tax is to be efficient and equitable and this is neither he said on the efficiency side it s surely going to lead to costly efforts by both businesses and consumers to find ways to avoid the tax for example starbucks could claim that they are using finely ground coffee instead of coffee run though an espresso maker and that consequently they are exempt from the tax would they be right i don t know but finding out will surely take lots of legal fees that could have gone to child care of course from a public relations perspective this is an ingenious idea and i mean that in a cynical way they ve pitted espresso drinkers against child care supporters and who s going to side with the espresso drinkers in fact the proposed tax has forced opponents into a political two step where their criticism must remain a beat behind their public stance of political correctness in a liberal city like seattle corporations continually advertise their commitment to social activism and throughout the debate over the initiative jolt members prefaced their opposition with endorsements of good child care starbucks will continue to support early learning and childhood development programs through the millions of dollars we contribute annually the company said however starbucks does not understand why the economic opportunity institute would recommend an additional consumer tax on espresso beverages or any other single consumer product the city council has yet to decide when the initiative will go before voters next year the initiative s authors say it is directed at vendors critics predict it will be passed on to consumers through higher prices effectively punishing them for their choice of coffee the tax would be applied to any drink with at least half an ounce of espresso including decaf drip coffee would be exempt burbank says the tax would reach only a pre selected group of consumers who are wealthier than those who drink drip so he s been pitching it as a modern day robin hood tax where the needy get a dime every time the affluent spend NUMBER to NUMBER on an espresso it s the kind of political marketing that fran beulah NUMBER finds funny i drink espresso she said laughing and i am not rich jh i did not have sex with that woman original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of jh mr fork sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject re goodbye global warming original message from john hall johnhall evergo net a green once said that if the spotted owl hadn t existed they would have had to invent it a republican once said i am not a crook best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
sorry i just had a run in with a neighbor whom i ve never met before who pigeonholed me within one minute after i asked a question he said are you one of them environmentalists for some reason that narrowminded attitude of not listening to what i was saying and categorizing me into a box in his little paranoid republican fantasy world just pissed me off sheesh i ve been out of work too long original message from tom tomwhore slack net to mr fork fork_list hotmail com cc fork fork spamassassin taint org sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject re goodbye global warming a green once said that if the spotted owl hadn t existed they would have had to invent it a republican once said i am not a crook oh great another round of lableisms let me know when you get back to real data ,0
 from bitbitch URL mailto bitbitch URL burbank says the tax would reach only a pre selected group of consumers who are wealthier than those who drink drip so he s been pitching it as a modern day robin hood tax where the needy get a dime every time the affluent spend NUMBER to NUMBER on an espresso the people who pour the espresso aren t rich an interesting issue might be how it affects employment still it is a NUMBER or less sales tax that might not make that big of a difference the costs of tracking revenue and collecting the tax might be onerous worse than the cost of the tax itself me i hate coffee anyway but if they put a NUMBER can tax on diet dr pepper i might have to start buying them in oregon yes i drink that much diet dr pepper ,0
i love the absurd sense of humor it takes to build up such an elaborate evening only to note that even if the date s a bust you can always have a hundred people up for cocktails in your penthouse suite at the end of the night personally i d put one point in favor of the redwood room over lapis on a weeknight you can still whip out a tibook and write since it s a hotel bar and it seems to give people all sorts of license to interrogate you as to why you re writing with a double of scotch best rohit five best ways to impress your date you ve met the biped of your dreams at the corner laundromat and wonder of wonders she s agreed to go out with you this saturday don t blow it follow the instructions below and even if you impress your date so much you never see her again your evening will be a memorable one all you need are a chauffeur a change of clothes and several hundred thousand dollars luxury suite at pacific bell park third and king streets NUMBER NUMBER URL kick off your date with an afternoon at the ballpark not just any ballpark but just about the best ballpark in the country and not in some drafty behind the plate box seat but in one of the park s lushly accessorized luxury suites an elevator whisks you from a private entrance on willie mays plaza to your dwelling place above the infield besides the excellent views of the bay the park and the giants in action there s a balcony a wet bar a refrigerator two televisions a stereo cd player a dual line phone internet access room service and a concierge to call you a cab or make your restaurant reservations for you no one is admitted without proper clearance ensuring your utmost privacy next pull yourself together for cocktails at lapis pier NUMBER embarcadero at bay NUMBER NUMBER URL now that the redwood room has devolved into just another velvet rope yuppie hangout the city has no clear cut top of the line cocktail lounge such as chicago s pump room or new york s king cole bar although maxfield s the compass rose and the top of the mark are excellent runners up best of all is lapis where the wannabe noel coward can sip an estimable gibson in the lounge adjoining the dining room the dramatically backlit bar is framed by lush bronze draperies that complement the room s deep blue setting and towering ceilings give the lounge a graceful airy ambience floor to ceiling windows provide a lush panorama of the bay and the hills beyond dinner at the dining room ritz carlton hotel NUMBER stockton between pine and california NUMBER NUMBER URL your next stop on the road to beguilement is one of the handsomest dining rooms in the country the tranquil sounds of a harp underscore a sumptuous setting of polished mahogany soft linens and fine crystal gleaming in the candlelight chef sylvain portay prepares luxurious nouvelle cuisine in several courses lobster salad with caviar cream turbot with crayfish and truffles roasted squab with port marinated figs saffron poached pear with guanaja chocolate gratin sommelier stéphane lacroix maintains a fabulous cellar the service is impeccable and inviting and intimate discourse is practically inevitable next charter the rendezvous from rendezvous charters pier NUMBER in south beach harbor NUMBER NUMBER URL nothing s more enticing than an evening cruise around san francisco bay and the islands bridges and lights of the city are especially entrancing viewed from this vintage brigantine schooner built in NUMBER and recently restored to its former glory the NUMBER foot rendezvous looks like a clipper ship out of the gold rush era with its NUMBER foot masts and square rigged sails intricately carved mahogany pecan ash and rosewood accent the brass railed velvet cushioned rooms below decks the perfect spot for a sip of veuve cliquot and some subtle canoodling penthouse suite at the fairmont hotel NUMBER mason between california and sacramento NUMBER NUMBER URL last but not least escort your companion to what has been described as the most expensive hotel accommodation in the world the fairmont s elaborate penthouse the eight room suite including three bedrooms three baths a dining room a library a billiard room a fully equipped kitchen and a living room with fireplace and baby grand piano comes with its own maid butler and limousine and is accessed by private elevator the library alone is worth investigating two circular floors of books encapsulated by a domed ceiling etched with the constellations the view from the terrace is enthralling and even if the date s a bust you can always have a hundred people up for cocktails URL originally published may NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 the further googlization of my screentimes news no not just news google news i love the line that tells me how fresh stale the news item is phreaking cewl so far i like the content range ,0
the damn federalists are at it again another bumsrush on oregons states rights being a NUMBER year translplant out here i say the best thing to do is bring back the plans to make the state of jefferson then have oregon washington and jefferson break away from the union URL san francisco california cnn the u s justice department filed an appeal monday to overturn a federal judge s ruling that upheld oregon s doctor assisted suicide law a spokesman for oregon attorney general hardy myers said the state views the appeal as same story different day oregon voters approved doctor assisted suicide twice in ballot initiatives in NUMBER and NUMBER but in november u s attorney general john ashcroft warned oregon doctors they would be prosecuted under federal law if they prescribed lethal doses of drugs for dying patients ,0
sf weekly nothing s more enticing than an evening cruise around san francisco bay and the islands bridges and lights of the city are especially entrancing viewed from this vintage brigantine schooner built in NUMBER and recently restored to its former glory the NUMBER foot rendezvous looks like a clipper ship out of the gold rush era with its NUMBER foot masts and square rigged sails that sounds like fun but it sets the wrong precedent here s the better idea invite her for an afternoon cruise under the golden gate bridge in your stonehorse day sailor under way ask her if she d like to take the stick back at slip cook her dinner something simple but good maybe a stir fry or a stew served in the cockpit with an inexpensive but potable wine if she runs away after that tis good riddance if she wants to try it again another day she shows promise if she asks you to show her the v berth you have a girlfriend if she notes your brightwork needs another coat and asks what you re using on it propose on the spot _________________________________________________________________ msn photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos URL ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER russell turpin wrote here s the better idea invite her for an afternoon cruise under the golden gate bridge in your stonehorse day sailor good way heres one that worked for me work on a database project with that person after a while hand her the keyboard to go get some lunch if when you come back she is talking to the person in the next cube about survivor all the time you were gone go for the one night boom boom plan if when you return she has read thru the help screen to try to figure out what your working on go fro the week long dine and do with options for more if she finishes the help docs and does some code if when you come back she has done some work on the db s infrastructure cleaned up your code and made a few additions to make it work better and figures that since you have done enough work for the day asks that you bring lunch and your lap top to the big screen projection room to watch your new dvd of startship troopers marry her ,0
 rare virgin shark births reported in detroit voice of america NUMBER hours ago a female shark has become a single mother in the strictest sense of the term officials at detroit s belle isle aquarium say a shark there recently produced three babies in an event they are calling virgin births URL URL URL ,0
first misattribution i did not write the blurb below i made one statement about vp cheney only to wit that he has a short memory i couldn t agree with you more on this in short then economics is not a zero sum game property is not theft the rich don t get rich off the backs of the poor and redistributionist labor theory of value happy horseshit is just that horseshit happy or otherwise however i resent being lumped in a zero sum zealot category for suggesting nothing more than that rich and successful at face value is apropos of nothing and i am beginning to understand that people who immediately and so fiercely object to my ad hominem re cheney align themselves weird sylogisms like if rich then deservedly or if rich then smarter given that i am also beginning to understand why some people need to be rich wrt to meritocracies all hail meritocracies wrt harvard over NUMBER of NUMBER graduates were cum laude interesting curve those eager to be measured got their wish those unwashed shy folk who just live it provide the balast speaking of forbes was reading about peter norton just today in an old issue while waiting for my doctor norton attributes his success to luck imagine geege original message from r a hettinga mailto rah shipwright com sent sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to geege schuman owen byrne cc gary lawrence murphy mr fork fork spamassassin taint org digital bearer settlement list subject comrade communism was re crony capitalism was re sed s united states roman empire g begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote most of them seem to have ivy league educations or are ivy league dropouts suggesting to me that they weren t exactly poor to start with actually if i remember correctly from discussion of the list s composition in forbes about five or six years ago the best way to get on the forbes NUMBER is to have no college at all can you say bootstraps boys and girls i knew you could given that an undergraduate liberal arts degree from a state school like say mine is nothing but stuff they should have taught you in a government run high school you ll probably get more of those on the forbes NUMBER as well as time goes on if we ever get around to having a good old fashioned government collapsing transfer payment depression an economic version of this summer s government forest conflagration caused by the same kind of innumeracy that not clear cutting enough forests did out west this summer that should motivate more than a few erst slackers out there including me to learn to actually feed themselves the next category on the forbes NUMBER list is someone with a terminal professional degree like an mba phd md etc from the best school possible why because as of about NUMBER the best way to get into harvard for instance is to be smart not rich don t take my word for it ask their admissions office look at the admissions stats over the years for proof meritocracy american style was invented at the ivy league after world war ii even stanford got the hint and of course chicago taught them all how right practically nobody who goes to a top NUMBER american institution of higher learning can actually afford to go there these days unless of course their parents who couldn t afford to go there themselves got terminal degrees in the last NUMBER years or so and their kids still had to get the grades and biased by intelligence test scores to get in the bizarre irony is that almost all of those people with terminal degrees until they actually own something and hire people or learn to make something for a living all day on a profit and loss basis persist in the practically insane belief like life after death that economics is some kind of zero sum game that dumb people who don t work hard for it make all the money and if someone is smart works hard and is rich then they stole their wealth somehow btw none of you guys out there holding the short end of this rhetorical stick can blame me for the fact that i m using it to beat you severely all over your collective head and shoulders you were apparently too dumb to grab the right end i went to missouri and i don t have a degree in anything actually useful much less a terminal one which means i m broker than anyone on this list it s just that you of all people lots with educations far surpassing my own should just plain know better the facts speak for themselves if you just open your eyes and look there are no epicycles the universe does not orbit the earth and economics is not a zero sum game the cost of anything including ignorance and destitution is the forgone alternative in this case intelligence and effort i will however admit to being educated waay past my level of competence and by the way you discuss economics so have you apparently btw if we ever actually had free markets in this country including the abolition of redistributive income and death taxes all those smart people in the forbes NUMBER would have more money and there would be more self made people on that list in addition most of the people who inherited money on the list would have much less of it not even relatively speaking finally practically all of that new money would have come from economic efficiency and not stolen from someone else investment bubbles or not that efficiency is called progress for those of you in the people s republics of berkeley or cambridge it means more and better stuff cheaper over time a terrible petit bourgeois concept apparently not worthy of teaching by the educational elite or you d know about it by now in economic terms it s also called an increase in general welfare and no virginia i m not talking about extorting money from someone who works and giving it to someone who doesn t in order to keep them from working and they can think of some politician as santa claus come election time in short then economics is not a zero sum game property is not theft the rich don t get rich off the backs of the poor and redistributionist labor theory of value happy horseshit is just that horseshit happy or otherwise to believe otherwise is quite literally given the time marx wrote capital and the manifesto romantic nonsense cheers rah begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER iqa awubpyNUMBERcpxhNUMBERjfNUMBERohaeqlasgcfzhsqmsvuyNUMBERgqjNUMBERwglNUMBERdwzkpihmanrur yyboc icylpNUMBERtlklNUMBERjpwefu zNUMBER end pgp signature r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
good idea this could also be a job for pNUMBERp lots of people would love to devote their spare cycles bandwidth and unblocked ip addresses to giving the chinese unfettered net access in a sense this is what the peek a booty project does URL but let s play out the next few moves good guys google enables ssl access bad guys chinese government again blocks all access to google domains good guys set up google proxies on ever changing set of hosts peek a booty bad guys ban ssl or any unlicensed opaque traffic at the national firewall good guys hide google traffic inside other innocuous looking activity bad guys require nationwide installation of client side netnannyish software good guys offer software which disables spoofs monitoring software bad guys imprison and harvest organs from people found using monitoring disabling software and on and on the best we can hope is that technological cleverness by raising the costs of oppression or by provoking intolerable oppression brings social liberalization sooner rather than later gordon original message from rohit khare khare alumni caltech edu to fork spamassassin taint org sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject how about subsidizing ssl access to google a cheeky letter to the editors of the economist follows along with the article i was commenting on rohit in your article about chinese attempts to censor google last week the search goes on sept NUMBERth the followup correctly noted that the most subversive aspect of google s service is not its card catalog which merely points surfers in the right direction but the entire library by maintaining what amounts to a live backup of the entire world wide web if you can get to google s cache you can read anything you d like the techniques chinese internet service providers are using to enforce these rules however all depend on the fact that traffic to and from google or indeed almost all public websites is unencrypted almost all web browsers however include support for secure sockets layer ssl encryption for securing credit card numbers and the like upgrading to ssl makes it effectively impossible for a man in the middle to meddle censorship would have to be imposed on each individual computer in china the only choice left is to either ban the entire site range of ip addresses but not the kind of selective filtering reported on in the article of course the additional computing power to encrypt all this traffic costs real money if the united states is so concerned about the free flow of information why shouldn t the broadcasting board of governors sponsor an encrypted interface to google or for that matter the rest of the web to date public diplomacy efforts have focused on public sector programming for the voice of america radio sawa and the like just imagine if the us government got into the business of subsidizing secure access to private sector media instead nothing illustrates the freedom of the press as much as the wacky excess of the press itself and most of it is already salted away at google and the internet archive project on second thought i can hardly imagine this administration promoting the use of encryption to uphold privacy rights never mind best rohit khare the search goes on china backtracks on banning google up to a point sep NUMBERth NUMBER beijing from the economist print edition in chinese the nickname for google an american internet search engine is gougou meaning doggy for the country s fast growing population of internet users NUMBERm according to an official estimate it is proving an elusive creature earlier this month the chinese authorities blocked access to google from internet service providers in china apparently because the search engine helped chinese users to get access to forbidden sites now after an outcry from those users access has been restored an unusual climbdown by china s zealous internet censors hardly more sophisticated controls have now been imposed that make it difficult to use google to search for material deemed offensive to the government access is still blocked to the cached versions of web pages taken by google as it trawls the internet these once provided a handy way for chinese users to see material stored on blocked websites after the blocking of google on august NUMBERst many chinese internet users posted messages on bulletin boards in china protesting against the move their anger was again aroused last week when some chinese internet providers began rerouting users trying to reach the blocked google site to far less powerful search engines in china duncan clark the head of a beijing based technology consultancy firm bda china ltd says china is trying a new tactic in its efforts to censor the internet until recently it had focused on blocking individual sites including all pages stored on them now it seems to be filtering data transmitted to or from foreign websites to search for key words that might indicate undesirable content for example earlier this week when using eastnet a beijing based internet provider a search on google for falun gong a quasi buddhist exercise sect outlawed in china usually aborted before all the results had time to appear such a search also rendered google impossible to use for several minutes ,0
anyone who doesn t appreciate both pluck and luck is only looking at part of the equation america has in fact moved hard toward meritocracy but and this is a huge one you don t necessarily find it on the forbes list there is an element of luck even if only being in the right place at the right time to go that high beyond the forbes list there are many ways in which almost pure luck is involved in significant wealth being a super model for example though i think most people would be surprised by a lot of super models cindy crawford was valedictorian of her high school most people of course aren t in those stratified realms it is the rest of us who tend to sort there is a huge philosophical problem with the concept of merit in the first place rawls claims merit doesn t exist sowell seems to agree at least in part but i m sure sowell would also state that the benefits of pretending it exists for society at large are enormous and if merit does exist then exactly what is it measuring iq purity of heart or the ability to satisfy customers functionally most people seem to equate merit with iq though they say it would be better if it were purity of heart yet the type of merit that lands you on the forbes list or even just being a garden variety millionaire next door is more likely to be the serving customers definition differences due to merit when they are perceived as such generate far more animosity than differences due to luck luck can be forgiven superior performance often not original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of geege schuman sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to r a hettinga geege schuman owen byrne cc gary lawrence murphy mr fork fork spamassassin taint org digital bearer settlement list subject re comrade communism was re crony capitalism was re sed s united states roman empire g first misattribution i did not write the blurb below i made one statement about vp cheney only to wit that he has a short memory i couldn t agree with you more on this in short then economics is not a zero sum game property is not theft the rich don t get rich off the backs of the poor and redistributionist labor theory of value happy horseshit is just that horseshit happy or otherwise however i resent being lumped in a zero sum zealot category for suggesting nothing more than that rich and successful at face value is apropos of nothing and i am beginning to understand that people who immediately and so fiercely object to my ad hominem re cheney align themselves weird sylogisms like if rich then deservedly or if rich then smarter given that i am also beginning to understand why some people need to be rich wrt to meritocracies all hail meritocracies wrt harvard over NUMBER of NUMBER graduates were cum laude interesting curve those eager to be measured got their wish those unwashed shy folk who just live it provide the balast speaking of forbes was reading about peter norton just today in an old issue while waiting for my doctor norton attributes his success to luck imagine geege original message from r a hettinga mailto rah shipwright com sent sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to geege schuman owen byrne cc gary lawrence murphy mr fork fork spamassassin taint org digital bearer settlement list subject comrade communism was re crony capitalism was re sed s united states roman empire g begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote most of them seem to have ivy league educations or are ivy league dropouts suggesting to me that they weren t exactly poor to start with actually if i remember correctly from discussion of the list s composition in forbes about five or six years ago the best way to get on the forbes NUMBER is to have no college at all can you say bootstraps boys and girls i knew you could given that an undergraduate liberal arts degree from a state school like say mine is nothing but stuff they should have taught you in a government run high school you ll probably get more of those on the forbes NUMBER as well as time goes on if we ever get around to having a good old fashioned government collapsing transfer payment depression an economic version of this summer s government forest conflagration caused by the same kind of innumeracy that not clear cutting enough forests did out west this summer that should motivate more than a few erst slackers out there including me to learn to actually feed themselves the next category on the forbes NUMBER list is someone with a terminal professional degree like an mba phd md etc from the best school possible why because as of about NUMBER the best way to get into harvard for instance is to be smart not rich don t take my word for it ask their admissions office look at the admissions stats over the years for proof meritocracy american style was invented at the ivy league after world war ii even stanford got the hint and of course chicago taught them all how right practically nobody who goes to a top NUMBER american institution of higher learning can actually afford to go there these days unless of course their parents who couldn t afford to go there themselves got terminal degrees in the last NUMBER years or so and their kids still had to get the grades and biased by intelligence test scores to get in the bizarre irony is that almost all of those people with terminal degrees until they actually own something and hire people or learn to make something for a living all day on a profit and loss basis persist in the practically insane belief like life after death that economics is some kind of zero sum game that dumb people who don t work hard for it make all the money and if someone is smart works hard and is rich then they stole their wealth somehow btw none of you guys out there holding the short end of this rhetorical stick can blame me for the fact that i m using it to beat you severely all over your collective head and shoulders you were apparently too dumb to grab the right end i went to missouri and i don t have a degree in anything actually useful much less a terminal one which means i m broker than anyone on this list it s just that you of all people lots with educations far surpassing my own should just plain know better the facts speak for themselves if you just open your eyes and look there are no epicycles the universe does not orbit the earth and economics is not a zero sum game the cost of anything including ignorance and destitution is the forgone alternative in this case intelligence and effort i will however admit to being educated waay past my level of competence and by the way you discuss economics so have you apparently btw if we ever actually had free markets in this country including the abolition of redistributive income and death taxes all those smart people in the forbes NUMBER would have more money and there would be more self made people on that list in addition most of the people who inherited money on the list would have much less of it not even relatively speaking finally practically all of that new money would have come from economic efficiency and not stolen from someone else investment bubbles or not that efficiency is called progress for those of you in the people s republics of berkeley or cambridge it means more and better stuff cheaper over time a terrible petit bourgeois concept apparently not worthy of teaching by the educational elite or you d know about it by now in economic terms it s also called an increase in general welfare and no virginia i m not talking about extorting money from someone who works and giving it to someone who doesn t in order to keep them from working and they can think of some politician as santa claus come election time in short then economics is not a zero sum game property is not theft the rich don t get rich off the backs of the poor and redistributionist labor theory of value happy horseshit is just that horseshit happy or otherwise to believe otherwise is quite literally given the time marx wrote capital and the manifesto romantic nonsense cheers rah begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER iqa awubpyNUMBERcpxhNUMBERjfNUMBERohaeqlasgcfzhsqmsvuyNUMBERgqjNUMBERwglNUMBERdwzkpihmanrur yyboc icylpNUMBERtlklNUMBERjpwefu zNUMBER end pgp signature r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
thanks for the link i m fascinated by archaeology as well original message from james rogers jamesr URL to fork spamassassin taint org sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject re goodbye global warming i ve seen articles on this type of stuff passing through various forums for several years i ve always found archaeology interesting for no particular reason here is a recent article from u s news that i actually still have in the dank recesses of my virtual repository james rogers jamesr URL URL defrosting the past ancient human and animal remains are melting out of glaciers a bounty of a warming world by alex markels as he hiked near colorado s continental divide in the summer of NUMBER ed knapp noticed a strange shape jutting from a melting ice field at NUMBER NUMBER feet it looked like a bison skull the building contractor and amateur archaeologist recalls i thought that s strange bison don t live this high up knapp brought the skull to the denver museum of nature and science where scientists last month announced that it was indeed from a bison one that died about NUMBER years ago this was an extraordinary discovery says russ graham the museum s chief curator adding that it could alter notions of the mountain environment centuries ago there s probably a lot more like it yet to be found and not just bison colorado isn t the only place where glaciers and snowfields are melting decades of unusual warmth in regions from peru to alaska a trend some think is linked to emissions from cars and industry have shrunk or thawed many of the world s NUMBER NUMBER glaciers as the ice recedes a treasure trove of human and animal artifacts is emerging extraordinarily well preserved after centuries in the deep freeze the fabrics wood bone and dna rich tissue found on the mucky fringes of the ice are revising scientists understanding of our predecessors health habits and technology and the prey they pursued it s mind boggling how many different fields are being advanced through studying these remains says johan reinhard a high altitude archaeologist and explorer in residence at the national geographic society rare spectacular finds like the frozen mummies he discovered in the andes of peru in the NUMBERs and the legendary NUMBER NUMBER year old ice man found at the edge of a receding glacier in the alps in NUMBER have offered time capsules of cultural and biological information now as the ice continues to retreat it is yielding not just occasional treasures but long records of humans and animals in the high mountains vanishing act the trick is finding such specimens before mother nature and looters take them first once uncovered frozen remains can deteriorate within hours or be gnawed by animals moreover they re often so well preserved when they emerge that people who come upon them don t even realize they re ancient that was the case when three men hunting sheep near a high glacier in british columbia canada three years ago saw what they thought was a dead animal it looked a little like sealskin buried in the ice recalls warren ward a teacher from nearby nelson but when i looked closer i could see leather fringe from a coat and finger bones figuring they had found the remains of another hunter or perhaps a fur trapper the men stowed a flint knife and other artifacts in a zip loc bag and delivered them to local officials archaeologists later exhumed the fallen hunter s body along with a woven hat fur clothing and what seemed to be a medicine bag carbon dating revealed that the hunter lived about NUMBER years ago dubbed kwaday dan ts inchi or long ago person found by people of the champagne and aishihik first nations who may be his direct descendants he is perhaps the best preserved human from the period ever found in north america other findings from melting ice in the neighboring yukon region could explain what that long ago person was doing in the mountains in the first place before this there was no archaeological record of people living here says greg hare a yukon government archaeologist now we see that this area was very much part of people s seasonal activities like ward s discovery the search began by chance when kristin benedek caught a whiff of what smelled like a barnyard as she and her husband gerry kuzyk hunted sheep at NUMBER NUMBER feet in the mountains of the south yukon they followed the scent to a melting patch of ice covered in caribou dung it was really odd because i knew there hadn t been caribou in the area for at least NUMBER years recalls kuzyk then a wildlife biologist with the yukon government caribou cake returning a week later he found what looked like a pencil with string wrapped around it it turned out to be a NUMBER NUMBER year old atlatl or spear thrower further investigation of the ice patch and scores of others around the region revealed icy layer cakes filled with caribou remains and human detritus chronicling NUMBER NUMBER years of changing hunting practices scientists now believe ancient caribou and other animals flocked to the ice each summer to cool down and escape swarming mosquitoes and flies hunters followed the game they returned for centuries and discarded some equipment in the ice we ve got people hunting with throwing darts up until NUMBER NUMBER years ago says hare who now oversees the research project then we see the first appearance of the bow and arrow about NUMBER NUMBER years ago and by NUMBER NUMBER years ago there s no more throwing darts now scientists are trying to make the search less a matter of luck they are developing sophisticated computer models that combine data on where glaciers are melting fastest and where humans and animals are known to have migrated to pinpoint the best places to search in alaska s wrangell and st elias mountain ranges the united states most glaciated terrain and in the andes johan reinhard thinks the fast thawing european alps could also deliver more findings perhaps as exquisite as the ice man global warming is providing us high altitude archaeologists with some fantastic opportunities right now we re probably about the only ones happy about it ,0
of the three lying politicians which liar would you take original message from john hall johnhall evergo net to fork fork spamassassin taint org sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject re goodbye global warming i did not have sex with that woman original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of mr fork sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject re goodbye global warming original message from john hall johnhall evergo net a green once said that if the spotted owl hadn t existed they would have had to invent it a republican once said i am not a crook ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tom wrote a green once said that if the spotted owl hadn t existed they would have had to invent it a republican once said i am not a crook oh great another round of lableisms let me know when you get back to real data not me i have another one instead green red cheers rah r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mr fork wrote i just had a run in with a neighbor whom i ve never met before who pigeonholed me within one minute after i asked a question he said are you one of them environmentalists snip sheesh i ve been out of work too long we ll ignore the possibility of a correlation here in the interest of charity cheers rah r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER gordon mohr wrote the best we can hope is that technological cleverness by raising the costs of oppression or by provoking intolerable oppression brings social liberalization sooner rather than later in a very real sense we are still playing the stone hurst man man wears hide stone dont hurt no more so now we use arrows arrows go thru hide dang lets try this chain mail stuff arrows dont go thru chain mail so now we try crafting long spears with chain ripping heads hey there buddy try that against my plate mail well f you and the horse you plated try doging a bullets holy shit where is my kevlar does you kevlar stop nukes game in this mad mad mad mad james burkian cum chucky darwin world there is no rest for either the wicked or the nonwicked there is just the ramp up to the brand new jimmiez the trick i think should all be learning is not so much looking for the the killer app but instead to look for the really cool app that mutates to meet changes bascialy give china no choise but to shoot its own head off to stop the music bang bang have a nice day tom ,0
on monday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm r a hettinga wrote green red capitalist nazi information content of the above statements NUMBER meanwhile the angels of light tm are having a great knock down drag out with the eldrich kings of net on xml dev whump bill humphries bill whump com URL ,0
mr fork of the three lying politicians which liar would you take no no the riddle is asking only one question how do you determine which is which if i were to ask you whether he would say you were a crook or if the other had sex _________________________________________________________________ send and receive hotmail on your mobile device URL ,0
on monday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm tom wrote bascialy give china no choise but to shoot its own head off to stop the music or we could have the audacity to tell them to shape up or get cut out of the global marbles game unfortunately that model only seems to apply to despots with oil and wmds rather than despots with wmds whump ,0
funny i read it as green red as in accounting as in fiscally irresponsible which do you think is the worse indictment overregulation or overspending there are many dickheads who buy into the neo conservative media s fox s definiton of liberal as one who seeks to impose both hannity and glove best quote wish i could remember who said it we tend to describe our own party by its ideals and our opponents party by its reality geege original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of bill humphries sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject re goodbye global warming on monday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm r a hettinga wrote green red capitalist nazi information content of the above statements NUMBER meanwhile the angels of light tm are having a great knock down drag out with the eldrich kings of net on xml dev whump bill humphries bill whump com URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER john hall wrote rawls claims merit doesn t exist nozick claims that rawls doesn t exist god says that nozick is dead cheers rah quine of course read the herald not the globe with him and nozick went political diversity at hahvahd r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote first misattribution my apologies rave on cheers rah where all the children are above average r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
depends on how much over spending vs how much and what type over regulation the biggest problem with over regulation is the costs can be invisible it also has the ability to single out particular people while over spending spreads the damage more evenly rent control would be an example of a regulation solution that is in general worse than spending tons of money on public housing as for the definition of a liberal being someone who seeks to impose both i find no fault in that definition whatsoever the opinion that either we are spending too much or we have too much regulation is pretty much anathema to liberal politics finally those who argue that there are private replacements for much government regulation are not saying that a state of nature no private replacements no government regulation is better than government regulation itself and in my experience people who label themselves green which does not include everyone who loves trees and thinks smokestacks are ugly is a watermelon original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of geege schuman funny i read it as green red as in accounting as in fiscally irresponsible which do you think is the worse indictment overregulation or overspending there are many dickheads who buy into the neo conservative media s fox s definiton of liberal as one who seeks to impose both ,0
it s only NUMBERkbps but URL can be tasty presently playing fille qui mousse collage in progress and other happy nibbles sounds a bit like the avalanches but that will change soon cheers wayne ,0
per john hall the opinion that either we are spending too much or we have too much regulation is pretty much anathema to liberal politics no it s not geege ,0
from slate s today s papers the new york times and los angeles times both lead with word that a federal judge ruled yesterday that the nation s largest national gas pipeline company el paso illegally withheld gas from the market during california s energy squeeze in NUMBER NUMBER the judge concluded that el paso left NUMBER percent of its capacity in the state off line thus driving up the price of gas and helping to induce rolling blackouts and this is the product of overregulation original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john hall sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject liberal defnitions depends on how much over spending vs how much and what type over regulation the biggest problem with over regulation is the costs can be invisible it also has the ability to single out particular people while over spending spreads the damage more evenly rent control would be an example of a regulation solution that is in general worse than spending tons of money on public housing as for the definition of a liberal being someone who seeks to impose both i find no fault in that definition whatsoever the opinion that either we are spending too much or we have too much regulation is pretty much anathema to liberal politics finally those who argue that there are private replacements for much government regulation are not saying that a state of nature no private replacements no government regulation is better than government regulation itself and in my experience people who label themselves green which does not include everyone who loves trees and thinks smokestacks are ugly is a watermelon original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of geege schuman funny i read it as green red as in accounting as in fiscally irresponsible which do you think is the worse indictment overregulation or overspending there are many dickheads who buy into the neo conservative media s fox s definiton of liberal as one who seeks to impose both ,0
 in a message dated NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm khare URL writes why you re writing with a double of scotch because obviously after the inevitable second double you won t remember anything you say unless you write it down tom ,0
on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER thosstew URL wrote klez most likely it ll pick up your address and send mail to all your friends and your strangers as if coming from you nice way to lose friends and meet strangers better than typing gibberish or hemingway but i repeat myself in a bar with a double of scotch friends dont let friends use outlook even after a douly shot of the scotch with a chaser all hands on the stinky one tom the other tommeat ,0
this was just too funny rotflma URL ken p ken coar sanagendamgagwedweinini URL author developer opinionist URL millennium hand and shrimp ,0
 URL the new yorker the next world order by nicholas lemann the bush administration may have a brand new doctrine of power issue of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER posted NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER when there is a change of command and not just in government the new people often persuade themselves that the old people were much worse than anyone suspected this feeling seems especially intense in the bush administration perhaps because bill clinton has been bracketed by a father son team it s easy for people in the administration to believe that after an unfortunate eight year interlude the bush family has resumed its governance and about time too the bush administration s sense that the clinton years were a waste or worse is strongest in the realms of foreign policy and military affairs republicans tend to regard democrats as untrustworthy in defense and foreign policy anyway in ways that coincide with what people think of as clinton s weak points an eagerness to please a lack of discipline condoleezza rice bush s national security adviser wrote an article in foreign affairs two years ago in which she contemptuously accused clinton of an extraordinary neglect of the fiduciary responsibilities of the commander in chief most of the top figures in foreign affairs in this administration also served under the president s father they took office last year after what they regard as eight years of small time flyswatting by clinton thinking that they were picking up where they d left off not long ago i had lunch with sorry a senior administration foreign policy official at a restaurant in washington called the oval room early in the lunch he handed me a twenty seven page report whose cover bore the seal of the department of defense an outline map of the world and these words defense strategy for the NUMBERs the regional defense strategy secretary of defense dick cheney january NUMBER one of the difficulties of working at the highest level of government is communicating its drama actors professional athletes and even elected politicians train for years go through a great winnowing and then perform publicly people who have titles like deputy assistant secretary of defense are just as ambitious and competitive have worked just as long and hard and are often playing for even higher stakes but what they do all day is go to meetings and write memos and prepare briefings how possibly to explain that some of the documents including the report that the senior official handed me which was physically indistinguishable from a high school term paper represent the government version of playing carnegie hall after the fall of the berlin wall dick cheney then the secretary of defense set up a shop as they say to think about american foreign policy after the cold war at the grand strategic level the project whose existence was kept quiet included people who are now back in the game at a higher level among them paul wolfowitz the deputy secretary of defense lewis libby cheney s chief of staff and eric edelman a senior foreign policy adviser to cheney generally speaking a cohesive group of conservatives who regard themselves as bigger thinking tougher minded and intellectually bolder than most other people in washington donald rumsfeld the secretary of defense shares these characteristics and has been closely associated with cheney for more than thirty years colin powell then the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff mounted a competing and presumably more ideologically moderate effort to reimagine american foreign policy and defense a date was set may NUMBER NUMBER on which each team would brief cheney for an hour cheney would then brief president bush after which bush would make a foreign policy address unveiling the new grand strategy everybody worked for months on the five twenty one brief with a sense that the shape of the post cold war world was at stake when wolfowitz and powell arrived at cheney s office on may NUMBERst wolfowitz went first but his briefing lasted far beyond the allotted hour and cheney a hawk who perhaps liked what he was hearing did not call time on him powell didn t get to present his alternate version of the future of the united states in the world until a couple of weeks later cheney briefed president bush using material mostly from wolfowitz and bush prepared his major foreign policy address but he delivered it on august NUMBER NUMBER the day that iraq invaded kuwait so nobody noticed the team kept working in NUMBER the times got its hands on a version of the material and published a front page story saying that the pentagon envisioned a future in which the united states could and should prevent any other nation or alliance from becoming a great power a few weeks of controversy ensued about the bush administration s hawks being unilateral controversy that cheney s people put an end to with denials and the counter leak of an edited softer version of the same material as it became apparent that bush was going to lose to clinton the cheney team s efforts took on the quality of a parting shot the report that the senior official handed me at lunch had been issued only a few days before clinton took office it is a somewhat bland opaque document a scrubbed meaning unclassified version of something more candid but it contained the essential ideas of shaping rather than reacting to the rest of the world and of preventing the rise of other superpowers its tone is one of skepticism about diplomatic partnerships a more forthright version of the same ideas can be found in a short book titled from containment to global leadership which zalmay khalilzad who joined cheney s team in NUMBER and is now special envoy to afghanistan published a couple of years into the clinton administration when he was out of government it recommends that the united states preclude the rise of another global rival for the indefinite future khalilzad writes it is a vital u s interest to preclude such a development i e to be willing to use force if necessary for the purpose when george w bush was campaigning for president he and the people around him didn t seem to be proposing a great doctrinal shift along the lines of the policy of containment of the soviet union s sphere of influence which the united states maintained during the cold war in his first major foreign policy speech delivered in november of NUMBER bush declared that a president must be a clear eyed realist a formulation that seems to connote an absence of world remaking ambition realism is exactly the foreign policy doctrine that cheney s pentagon team rejected partly because it posits the impossibility of any one country s ever dominating world affairs for any length of time one gets many reminders in washington these days of how much the terrorist attacks of september NUMBERth have changed official foreign policy thinking any chief executive of either party would probably have done what bush has done so far made war on the taliban and al qaeda and enhanced domestic security it is only now six months after the attacks that we are truly entering the realm of presidential choice and all indications are that bush is going to use september NUMBERth as the occasion to launch a new aggressive american foreign policy that would represent a broad change in direction rather than a specific war on terrorism all his rhetoric especially in the two addresses he has given to joint sessions of congress since september NUMBERth and all the information about his state of mind which his aides have leaked indicate that he sees this as the nation s moment of destiny a perception that the people around him seem to be encouraging because it enhances bush s stature and opens the way to more assertive policymaking inside government the reason september NUMBERth appears to have been a transformative moment as the senior official i had lunch with put it is not so much that it revealed the existence of a threat of which officials had previously been unaware as that it drastically reduced the american public s usual resistance to american military involvement overseas at least for a while the clinton administration beginning with the black hawk down operation in mogadishu during its first year operated on the conviction that americans were highly averse to casualties the all bombing kosovo operation in clinton s next to last year was the ideal foreign military adventure now that the united states has been attacked the options are much broader the senior official approvingly mentioned a NUMBER study of casualty aversion by the triangle institute for security studies which argued that the mass public is much less casualty averse than the military or the civilian élite believes for example the study showed that the public would tolerate thirty thousand deaths in a military operation to prevent iraq from acquiring weapons of mass destruction the american death total in the vietnam war was about fifty eight thousand september NUMBERth presumably reduced casualty aversion even further recently i went to the white house to interview condoleezza rice rice s foreign affairs article from NUMBER begins with this declaration the united states has found it exceedingly difficult to define its national interest in the absence of soviet power i asked her whether that is still the case i think the difficulty has passed in defining a role she said immediately i think september NUMBERth was one of those great earthquakes that clarify and sharpen events are in much sharper relief like bush she said that opposing terrorism and preventing the accumulation of weapons of mass destruction in the hands of irresponsible states now define the national interest the latter goal by the way is new in bush s speech to congress on september NUMBERth america s sole grand purpose was ending terrorism we talked in her west wing office its tall windows face the part of the white house grounds where television reporters do their standups in her bearing rice seemed less crisply military than she does in public she looked a little tired but she was projecting a kind of missionary calm rather than belligerence in the foreign affairs article rice came across as a classic realist putting forth the notions of power politics great powers and power balances as the proper central concerns of the united states now she sounded as if she had moved closer to the one power idea that cheney s pentagon team proposed ten years ago or at least to the idea that the other great powers are now in harmony with the united states because of the terrorist attacks and can be induced to remain so theoretically the realists would predict that when you have a great power like the united states it would not be long before you had other great powers rising to challenge it or trying to balance against it rice said and i think what you re seeing is that there s at least a predilection this time to move to productive and coöperative relations with the united states rather than to try to balance the united states i actually think that statecraft matters in how it all comes out it s not all foreordained rice said that she had called together the senior staff people of the national security council and asked them to think seriously about how do you capitalize on these opportunities to fundamentally change american doctrine and the shape of the world in the wake of september NUMBERth i really think this period is analogous to NUMBER to NUMBER she said that is the period when the containment doctrine took shape in that the events so clearly demonstrated that there is a big global threat and that it s a big global threat to a lot of countries that you would not have normally thought of as being in the coalition that has started shifting the tectonic plates in international politics and it s important to try to seize on that and position american interests and institutions and all of that before they harden again the national security council is legally required to produce an annual document called the national security strategy stating the over all goals of american policy another government report whose importance is great but not obvious the bush administration did not produce one last year as the clinton administration did not in its first year rice said that she is working on the report now there are two ways to handle this document she told me one is to do it in a kind of minimalist way and just get it out but it s our view that since this is going to be the first one for the bush administration it s important an awful lot has happened since we started this process prior to NUMBER NUMBER i can t give you a certain date when it s going to be out but i would think sometime this spring and it s important that it be a real statement of what the bush administration sees as the strategic direction that it s going it seems clear already that rice will set forth the hope of a more dominant american role in the world than she might have a couple of years ago some questions that don t appear to be settled yet but are obviously being asked are how much the united states is willing to operate alone in foreign affairs and how much change it is willing to try to engender inside other countries and to what end and with what means the leak a couple of weeks ago of a new american nuclear posture adding offensive capability against rogue states departed from decades of official adherence to a purely defensive position and was just one indication of the scope of the reconsideration that is going on is the united states now in a position to be redrawing regional maps especially in the middle east and replacing governments by force nobody thought that the bush administration would be thinking in such ambitious terms but plainly it is and with the internal debate to the right of where it was only a few months ago just before the NUMBER election a republican foreign policy figure suggested to me that a good indication of a bush administration s direction in foreign affairs would be who got a higher ranking job paul wolfowitz or richard haass haass is another veteran of the first bush administration and an intellectual like wolfowitz but much more moderate in NUMBER he published a book titled the reluctant sheriff in which he poked a little fun at wolfowitz s famous strategy briefing of the early nineties he called it the pentagon paper and disagreed with its idea that the united states should try to be the world s only great power over the long term for better or worse such a goal is beyond our reach haass wrote it simply is not doable elsewhere in the book he disagreed with another of the wolfowitz team s main ideas that of the united states expanding the democratic zone of peace primacy is not to be confused with hegemony the united states cannot compel others to become more democratic haass argued that the united states is becoming less dominant in the world not more and suggested a revival of what might be called traditional great power politics wolfowitz got a higher ranking job than haass he is deputy secretary of defense and haass is director of policy planning for the state department in effect colin powell s big think guy recently i went to see him in his office at the state department on the wall of his waiting room was an array of photographs of every past director of the policy planning staff beginning with george kennan the father of the containment doctrine and the first holder of the office that haass now occupies it s another indication of the way things are moving in washington that haass seems to have become more hawkish i mentioned the title of his book using the word reluctant was itself reflective of a period when foreign policy seemed secondary and sacrificing for foreign policy was a hard case to make he said it was written when bill clinton was saying it s the economy stupid not it s the world stupid two things are very different now one the president has a much easier time making the case that foreign policy matters second at the top of the national security charts is this notion of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism i asked haass whether there is a doctrine emerging that is as broad as kennan s containment i think there is he said what you re seeing from this administration is the emergence of a new principle or body of ideas i m not sure it constitutes a doctrine about what you might call the limits of sovereignty sovereignty entails obligations one is not to massacre your own people another is not to support terrorism in any way if a government fails to meet these obligations then it forfeits some of the normal advantages of sovereignty including the right to be left alone inside your own territory other governments including the united states gain the right to intervene in the case of terrorism this can even lead to a right of preventive or peremptory self defense you essentially can act in anticipation if you have grounds to think it s a question of when and not if you re going to be attacked clearly haass was thinking of iraq i don t think the american public needs a lot of persuading about the evil that is saddam hussein he said also i d fully expect the president and his chief lieutenants to make the case public opinion can be changed we d be able to make the case that this isn t a discretionary action but one done in self defense on the larger issue of the american role in the world haass was still maintaining some distance from the hawks he had made a speech not long before called imperial america but he told me that there is a big difference between imperial and imperialist i just think that we have to be a little bit careful he said great as our advantages are there are still limits we have to have allies we can t impose our ideas on everyone we don t want to be fighting wars alone so we need others to join us american leadership yes but not american unilateralism it has to be multilateral we can t win the war against terror alone we can t send forces everywhere it really does have to be a collaborative endeavor he stopped for a moment is there a successor idea to containment i think there is he said it is the idea of integration the goal of u s foreign policy should be to persuade the other major powers to sign on to certain key ideas as to how the world should operate opposition to terrorism and weapons of mass destruction support for free trade democracy markets integration is about locking them into these policies and then building institutions that lock them in even more the first but by no means the last obvious manifestation of a new american foreign policy will be the effort to remove saddam hussein what the united states does in an iraq operation will very likely dwarf what s been done so far in afghanistan both in terms of the scale of the operation itself and in terms of its aftermath several weeks ago ahmad chalabi the head of the iraqi national congress the iraqi opposition party came through washington with an entourage of his aides chalabi went to the state department and the white house to ask evidently successfully for more american funding his main public event was a panel discussion at the american enterprise institute chalabi s leading supporter in town richard perle the prominent hawk and former defense department official acted as moderator smiling and supremely confident perle opened the discussion by saying evidence is mounting that the administration is looking very carefully at strategies for dealing with saddam hussein the war on terrorism he said will not be complete until saddam is successfully dealt with and that means replacing his regime that action will be taken i have no doubt chalabi who lives in london is a charming suave middle aged man with a twinkle in his eye he was dressed in a double breasted pin striped suit and a striped shirt with a white spread collar although he and his supporters argue that the iraqi national congress with sufficient american support can defeat saddam just as the northern alliance defeated the taliban in afghanistan this view hasn t won over most people in washington it isn t just that chalabi doesn t look the part of a rebel military leader he could fight you for the last petit four on the tray over tea at the savoy but that s about it one skeptical former pentagon official told me or that he isn t in iraq it s also that saddam s military is perhaps ten times the size that the taliban s was and has been quite successful at putting down revolts over the last decade the united states left iraq in NUMBER believing that saddam might soon fall to an internal rebellion chalabi s supporters believe that saddam is much weaker now and that even signs that a serious operation was in the offing could finish him off but non true believers seem to be coming around to the idea that a military operation against saddam would mean the deployment of anywhere from a hundred thousand to three hundred thousand american ground troops kenneth pollack a former c i a analyst who was the national security council s staff expert on iraq during the last years of the clinton administration recently caused a stir in the foreign policy world by publishing an article in foreign affairs calling for war against saddam this was noteworthy because three years ago pollack and two co authors published an article also in foreign affairs arguing that the iraqi national congress was incapable of defeating saddam pollack still doesn t think chalabi can do the job he believes that it would require a substantial american ground air and sea force closer in size to the one we used in kuwait in NUMBER NUMBER than to the one we are using now in afghanistan pollack who is trim quick and crisp is obviously a man who has given a briefing or two in his day when i went to see him at his office in washington with a little encouragement he got out from behind his desk and walked over to his office wall where three maps of the middle east were hanging the only way to do it is a full scale invasion he said using a pen as a pointer we re talking about two grand corps two to three hundred thousand people altogether the population is here in the tigris euphrates valley he pointed to the area between baghdad and basra ideally you d have the saudis on board he pointed to the prince sultan airbase near riyadh you could make kuwait the base but it s much easier in saudi you need to take western iraq and southern iraq pointing again because otherwise they ll fire scuds at israel and at the saudi oil fields you probably want to prevent iraq from blowing up its own oil fields so troops have to occupy them and you need troops to defend the kurds in northern iraq point point you go in as hard as you can as fast as you can he slapped his hand on the top of his desk you get the enemy to divide his forces by threatening him in two places at once his hand hit the desk again hard then you crush him smack that would be a reverberating blow the united states has already removed the government of one country afghanistan the new government is obviously shaky and american military operations there are not completed pakistan which before september NUMBERth clearly met the new test of national unacceptability it both harbors terrorists and has weapons of mass destruction will also require long term attention since the country is not wholly under the control of the government as the murder of daniel pearl demonstrated and even parts of the government like the intelligence service may not be entirely under the control of the president in iraq if america invades and brings down saddam a new government must be established an enormous long term task in a country where there is no obvious plausible new leader the prospective iraq operation has drawn strong objections from the neighboring nations one of which russia is a nuclear superpower an invasion would have a huge effect on the internal affairs of all the biggest middle eastern nations iran turkey saudi arabia and even egypt events have forced the administration to become directly involved in the israeli palestinian conflict as it hadn t wanted to do so it s really the entire region that is in play in much the way that europe was immediately after the second world war in september bush rejected paul wolfowitz s recommendation of immediate moves against iraq that the president seems to have changed his mind is an indication in part of the bureaucratic skill of the administration s conservatives these guys are relentless one former official who is close to the high command at the state department told me resistance is futile the conservatives other weapon besides relentlessness is intellectualism colin powell tends to think case by case and since september NUMBERth the conservatives have outflanked him by producing at least the beginning of a coherent hawkish world view whose acceptance practically requires invading iraq if the united states applies the doctrines of cheney s old pentagon team shaping and expanding the zone of democracy the implications would extend far beyond that one operation the outside experts on the middle east who have the most credibility with the administration seem to be bernard lewis of princeton and fouad ajami of the johns hopkins school of advanced international studies both of whom see the arab middle east as a region in need of radical remediation lewis was invited to the white house in december to brief the senior foreign policy staff one point he made is look in that part of the world nothing matters more than resolute will and force the senior official i had lunch with told me in other words the united states needn t proceed gingerly for fear of inflaming the arab street as long as it is prepared to be strong the senior official also recommended as interesting thinkers on the middle east charles hill of yale who in a recent essay declared every regime of the arab islamic world has proved a failure and reuel marc gerecht of the american enterprise institute who published an article in the weekly standard about the need for a change of regime in iran and syria those goals gerecht told me when we spoke could be accomplished through pressure short of an invasion several people i spoke with predicted that most or even all of the nations that loudly oppose an invasion of iraq would privately cheer it on if they felt certain that this time the americans were really going to finish the job one purpose of vice president cheney s recent diplomatic tour of the region was to offer assurances on that matter while gamely absorbing all the public criticism of an iraq operation in any event the administration appears to be committed to acting forcefully in advance of the world s approval when i spoke to condoleezza rice she said that the united states should assemble coalitions of the willing to support its actions rather than feel it has to work within the existing infrastructure of international treaties and organizations an invasion of iraq would test that policy in more ways than one the administration would be betting that it can continue to eliminate al qaeda cells in countries that publicly opposed the iraq operation when the administration submitted its budget earlier this year it asked for a forty eight billion dollar increase in defense spending for fiscal NUMBER which begins in october NUMBER much of that sum would go to improve military pay and benefits but ten billion dollars of it is designated as an unspecified contingency fund for further operations in the war on terrorism that s probably at least the initial funding for an invasion of iraq this spring the administration will be talking to other countries about the invasion trying to secure basing and overflight privileges while bush builds up a rhetorical case for it by giving speeches about the unacceptability of developing weapons of mass destruction a drama involving weapons inspections in iraq will play itself out over the spring and summer and will end with the united states declaring that the terms that saddam offers for the inspections involving delays and restrictions are unacceptable then probably in the late summer or early fall the enormous troop positioning which will take months will begin the administration obviously feels confident that the united states can effectively parry whatever aggressive actions saddam takes during the troop buildup and hopes that its moves will destabilize iraq enough to cause the republican guard the military key to the country to turn against saddam and topple him on its own but the chain of events leading inexorably to a full scale american invasion if it hasn t already begun evidently will begin soon lewis scooter libby who was the principal drafter of cheney s future of the world documents during the first bush administration now works in an office in the old executive office building overlooking the west wing where he has a second smaller office a packet of public relations material prompted by the recent paperback publication of his NUMBER novel the apprentice quotes the times calling him dick cheney s dick cheney which seems like an apt description he appears absolutely sure of himself and whether by coincidence or as a result of the influence of his boss speaks in a tough confidential gravelly rumble like condoleezza rice and bush himself he gives the impression of having calmly accepted the idea that the project of war and reconstruction which the administration has now taken on may be a little exhausting for those charged with carrying it out but is unquestionably right the only truly prudent course when i went to see libby not long ago i asked him whether before september NUMBERth american policy toward terrorism should have been different he went to his desk and got out a large black loose leaf binder filled with typewritten sheets interspersed with foldout maps of the middle east he looked through it for a long minute formulating his answer let us stack it up he said at last somalia NUMBER NUMBER the discovery of the al qaeda related plot in the philippines NUMBER the world trade center first bombing NUMBER the attempt to assassinate president bush former president bush and the lack of response to that the lack of a serious response to that NUMBER the riyadh bombing NUMBER the khobar bombing NUMBER the kenyan embassy bombing and the tanzanian embassy bombing NUMBER the plot to launch millennium attacks NUMBER the bombing of the cole throughout this period infractions on inspections by the iraqis and eventually the withdrawal of the entire inspection regime and the failure to respond significantly to iraqi incursions in the kurdish areas no one would say these challenges posed easy problems but if you take that long list and you ask did we respond in a way which discouraged people from supporting terrorist activities or activities clearly against our interests did we help to shape the environment in a way which discouraged further aggressions against u s interests many observers conclude no and ask whether it was then easier for someone like osama bin laden to rise up and say credibly the americans don t have the stomach to defend themselves they won t take casualties to defend their interests they are morally weak libby insisted that the american response to september NUMBERth has not been standard or foreordained look at what the president has done in afghanistan he said and look at his speech to the joint session of congress meaning the state of the union message in january he made it clear that it s an important area he made it clear that we believe in expanding the zone of democracy even in this difficult part of the world he made it clear that we stand by our friends and defend our interests and he had the courage to identify those states which present a problem and to begin to build consensus for action that would need to be taken if there is not a change of behavior on their part take the afghan case for example there are many other courses that the president could have taken he could have waited for juridical proof before we responded he could have engaged in long negotiations with the taliban he could have failed to seek a new relationship with pakistan based on its past nuclear tests or been so afraid of weakening pakistan that we didn t seek its help this list could go on to twice or three times the length i ve mentioned so far but instead the president saw an opportunity to refashion relations while standing up for our interests the problem is complex and we don t know yet how it will end but we have opened new prospects for relations not only with afghanistan as important as it was as a threat but with the states of central asia pakistan russia and as it may develop with the states of southwest asia more generally we moved on to iraq and the question of what makes saddam hussein unacceptable in the administration s eyes the issue is not inspections libby said the issue is the iraqis promise not to have weapons of mass destruction their promise to recognize the boundaries of kuwait their promise not to threaten other countries and other promises that they made in NUMBER and a number of u n resolutions including all the other problems i listed whether it was wise or not and that is the subject of debate iraq was given a second chance to abide by international norms it failed to take that chance then and annually for the next ten years what s your level of confidence i asked him that the current regime will in fact change its behavior in a way that you will be satisfied by he ran his hand over his face and then gave me a direct gaze and spoke slowly and deliberately there is no basis in iraq s past behavior to have confidence in good faith efforts on their part to change their behavior r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
this situation wouldn t have happened in the first place if california didn t have economically insane regulations they created a regulatory climate that facilitated this so yes it is the product of over regulation james rogers jamesr URL on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote from slate s today s papers the new york times and los angeles times both lead with word that a federal judge ruled yesterday that the nation s largest national gas pipeline company el paso illegally withheld gas from the market during california s energy squeeze in NUMBER NUMBER the judge concluded that el paso left NUMBER percent of its capacity in the state off line thus driving up the price of gas and helping to induce rolling blackouts and this is the product of overregulation ,0
 forwarded message date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from mis URL subject re s t scoot boss s wife orders hit the independent a shopper s newspaper in the sf bay area the operational definition of that media category is no matter how hard you try you can t get them to stop delivering it had this story on aug NUMBER NUMBER dot com downturn linked to domestic violence domestic violence worker kathy black remembers watching the nasdaq take a nastydive on msnbc in march NUMBER i knew then that we would have a lot of work on our hands black said referring to the caseload at la casa de las madres the city s largest organization serving women and children affected by domestic violence she was right calls to la casa s crisis line increased by NUMBER in the last financial year and the service saw a NUMBER percent increase in the demand for beds with NUMBER women and NUMBER children utilizing the shelter service black said the dot com collapse and a growing awareness of la casa s services were the two main reasons for the increase in calls she said many of her clients had partners who were employed in service industry jobs utilized by dot com workers on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER gordon joly wrote URL woman admits trying to hire hitman the former wife of an internet tycoon has admitted trying to hire a hitman to kill him after the breakdown of their NUMBER year marriage linux user no NUMBER URL gordon joly URL ,0
 yes it is you just want to be called a liberal when you really aren t original message from geege schuman mailto geege barrera org sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to johnhall evergo net fork subject re liberal defnitions per john hall the opinion that either we are spending too much or we have too much regulation is pretty much anathema to liberal politics no it s not geege ,0
 in a message dated NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am jamesr URL writes this situation wouldn t have happened in the first place if california didn t have economically insane regulations they created a regulatory climate that facilitated this so yes it is the product of over regulation which is to say if you reduce the argument to absurdity that law causes crime yes i agree that badly written law can make life so frustrating that people have little choice but to subvery it if they want to get anything done this is also true of corporate policies and all other attempts to regulate conduct by rules rules just don t work well when situations are fluid or ambiguous but i don t think that the misbehavior of energy companies in california can properly be called well intentioned lawbreaking by parties who were trying to do the right thing but could do so only by falling afoul of some technicality if you want to get to root causes we should probably go to the slaying of abel by cain perhaps we can figure out what went wrong then and roll our learning forward through history and create a forktopia nonpartisanly which is to say casting stones on all houses whether bicameral or unicameral built on sand or on rock to the left of them or to the right of them of glass or brick or twig or straw tom ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER jim whitehead wrote you have not explained why the increase in coNUMBER concentrations is not contributing to increasing global temperature there are a number of reasons to think that coNUMBER is not important to controlling global temperature and that much of the coNUMBER increase may not be anthropogenic some recent research points worth mentioning recent high resolution studies of historical coNUMBER concentrations and temperatures over hundreds of thousands of years have shown a modest correlation between the two in a number of cases coNUMBER level increases are not in phase with temperature increases and actually trail the increase in temperature by a short time i e increases in temperature preceded increases in coNUMBER concentrations the more studies that are done of the geological record the more it seems that coNUMBER concentrations are correlated with temperature increases but are not significantly causative there is a lot of evidence that coNUMBER levels are regulated in a fairly stable fashion i don t believe anyone really has an authoritative answer as to exactly how this works yet with respect to absolute coNUMBER concentrations it is also important to point out that our best data to date suggests that they follow a fairly regular cycle with a period of about NUMBER NUMBER years at previous cycle peaks the concentrations were similar to what they are now if this cycle has any validity and we only have good data for NUMBER NUMBER complete cyclical periods but which look surprisingly regular in shape and time then we should be almost exactly at a peak right now as it happens current coNUMBER concentrations are within NUMBER of other previous cyclical concentration peaks for which we have good data in other words we may be adding to the coNUMBER levels but it looks a lot like we would be building a molehill on top of a mountain in the historical record at the very least there is nothing anomalous about current coNUMBER concentrations also coNUMBER levels interact with the biosphere in a manner that ultimately affects temperature again the interaction is not entirely predictable but this is believed to be one of the regulating negative feedback systems mentioned above last as greenhouse gases go coNUMBER isn t particularly potent although it makes up for it in volume in some cases gases such as water and methane have a far greater impact as greenhouse gases on a per molecule basis water vapor may actually be the key greenhouse gas something that coNUMBER only indirectly effects through its interaction with the biosphere coNUMBER was an easy mark for early environmentalism but all the recent studies and data i ve seen gives me the impression that it is largely a passenger on the climate ride rather than the driver i certainly don t think it is a healthy fixation if we re actually interested in understanding warming trends cheers james rogers jamesr URL ,0
 read the article i m afraid i don t understand how the transmission prices could have hit NUMBER tcf but i m also really leery of telling a pipeline company they have to run a pipeline at a higher pressure and that they should forego maintenance we had a big pipeline explosion up here awhile ago so maybe the judge has a point we ll see as the appeals work its way out original message from geege schuman mailto geege barrera org sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to johnhall URL subject re liberal defnitions from slate s today s papers the new york times and los angeles times both lead with word that a federal judge ruled yesterday that the nation s largest national gas pipeline company el paso illegally withheld gas from the market during california s energy squeeze in NUMBER NUMBER the judge concluded that el paso left NUMBER percent of its capacity in the state off line thus driving up the price of gas and helping to induce rolling blackouts and this is the product of overregulation original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john hall sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject liberal defnitions depends on how much over spending vs how much and what type over regulation the biggest problem with over regulation is the costs can be invisible it also has the ability to single out particular people while over spending spreads the damage more evenly rent control would be an example of a regulation solution that is in general worse than spending tons of money on public housing as for the definition of a liberal being someone who seeks to impose both i find no fault in that definition whatsoever the opinion that either we are spending too much or we have too much regulation is pretty much anathema to liberal politics finally those who argue that there are private replacements for much government regulation are not saying that a state of nature no private replacements no government regulation is better than government regulation itself and in my experience people who label themselves green which does not include everyone who loves trees and thinks smokestacks are ugly is a watermelon original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of geege schuman funny i read it as green red as in accounting as in fiscally irresponsible which do you think is the worse indictment overregulation or overspending there are many dickheads who buy into the neo conservative media s fox s definiton of liberal as one who seeks to impose both ,0
 proving once again that aviators get all the chicks just as long as they have the wherewithal for avgas anyway i think turpin once calculated that one could do a decent amount of messing about for about NUMBERk of boat and NUMBERk year in living expenses what are the equivalent figures for live aboard aircraft dave how difficult would it be to find the harbormaster after mooring to the top of the empire state building ,0
o utensils of the world i wonder if it is possible to reverse engineer the reed solomon error correcting codes to create a bytestream such that when burned onto a cd you can make out a picture in the diffraction pattern i suppose this is a modern equivalent to line printer artwork i was imagining using a cd rw drive to use the outer track say to spell out the disc title creation time etc it would sure beat feeding cds through a laser printer rohit ,0
on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER rohit khare wrote i suppose this is a modern equivalent to line printer artwork i was imagining using a cd rw drive to use the outer track say to spell out the disc title creation time etc it would sure beat feeding cds through a laser printer there are commercial burners which can be labeled that way patterns in the unburnt section ,0
liberalism propagandized as meddling in truth the middle american liberalism believes that in this respect it has made a major contribution to the grand strategy of freedom where both capitalists and socialists in the NUMBER s were trying to narrow the choice to either or either laissez faire capitalism or bureaucratic socialism the new deal persisted in its vigorous faith that human intelligence and social experiment could work out a stable foundation for freedom in a context of security and for security in a context of freedom that faith remains the best hope of free society today fluid yet crunchy gg URL ,0
righ somebody reminds me of the old divorced man s exposition of what happened to him first you get a ring then you give it away then you get a house and you give that away just kidding darling cheers rah who um doesn t own a house begin forwarded text date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from somebody to r a hettinga rah shipwright com subject re sf weekly s ultimate sf date lineup bob living aboard a cessna NUMBER would be challenging but i did meet a couple at an airshow in point mugu in NUMBER or so that had converted an old seaplane it was a bit larger than a pby i think to something of a floating flying rv they visited a lot of airshows and covered a lot of miles i m sure maintenance on a NUMBER year old airframe fuel for two large radial engines insurance and other costs were out of my price range but what a hoot on a more realistic note the flight to half moon bay was probably NUMBER hours of flight time at about NUMBER hour in the cessna not exactly a cheap date but that s nothing compared to the money i ve spent on her since and loved every minute of it darling somebody r a hettinga wrote begin forwarded text status ro delivered to fork URL to fork URL subject re sf weekly s ultimate sf date lineup from dave long dl silcom com sender fork admin URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER proving once again that aviators get all the chicks just as long as they have the wherewithal for avgas anyway i think turpin once calculated that one could do a decent amount of messing about for about NUMBERk of boat and NUMBERk year in living expenses what are the equivalent figures for live aboard aircraft dave how difficult would it be to find the harbormaster after mooring to the top of the empire state building end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
anyone heard of this law before q can i get a playlist a we are unable to offer a playlist the digital performance right in sound recordings act of NUMBER passed by congress prevents us from disclosing such information the digital law states that if one is transmitting a digital signal song information cannot be pre announced it is a music choice policy not to release a playlist of upcoming or previously played songs recently musicchoice upgraded their website with a very important service as far as i m concerned real time song info from their website my directv receiver is up on a shelf and its display scrolls intermittently and i m surely not going to fire up my projector while listening to the radio so i m quite happy that i can retrieve r t song info with urls like URL URL URL etc now if i were a more eager hacker i d write up little wsdl stubs for these event streams they re clearly not worried about load since their own web pages specify NUMBER sec meta refresh and then feed em through a content router to alert me to cool songs heck cross reference the service to cddb and rk ,0
russell turpin wrote invite her for an afternoon cruise under the golden gate bridge in your stonehorse day sailor sounds good under way ask her if she d like to take the stick whoah that s a rather direct approach r a hettinga quoted from somebody what i did in NUMBER was to rent a plane from the moffett field flying club and take her on an aerial tour sounds great i can t recall whether or not i gave her any stick time can t remember if he s in the mile high club even worse r ,0
 the only circumstances in which a business will not be ready indeed eager to do an additional volume of business is if it is physically unable to do so because it lacks the necessary physical means of doing so or because the costs it incurs in doing so exceed the additional sales revenue it will receive that is a fully retarded view of economics and pretty much the same kind of clueless oversimplication that led to the blackouts there are a bazillion factors that affect game strategies which is what the state of california messed up and the energy producers exploited i m not convinced that the only way to prevent future energy debacles like the blackouts is to reregulate ultimately we have to blame the people who crafted the game rules in a way that invited blackouts and exploitation given that the particular set of rules crafted by the state of california sucked does there exist a set of rules that doesn t suck if there does exist a better set of rules then reregulation isn t necessarily the answer you can t blame businesses for being profit maximizers yes the people involved were heartless and corrupt but mainly they just did their jobs the guilty parties are either the mathematicians and economists who wrote the rules or if the mathematicians and economists said there were no good rules pro deregulation politicians who went ahead anyway lucas ,0
 begin forwarded text date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to digital bearer settlement list dbs philodox com from r a hettinga rah shipwright com subject california needs intelligent energy deregulation sender dbs philodox com URL posted on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER dan gillmor state needs intelligent energy deregulation by dan gillmor mercury news technology columnist the facts were trade and government secrets at the time but the energy industry failed the smell test in NUMBER and NUMBER as it tried to justify soaring wholesale electricity and natural gas prices in california now as investigators and regulators unravel the reasons for a financial and fiscal mess we ll be cleaning up for decades we re learning what everyone suspected market games helped engineer the price spikes the latest manipulation was highlighted in monday s finding by a federal administrative law judge who said a dominant natural gas company squeezed supplies in order to squeeze customers his ruling came a few days after california s public utilities commission reported that electricity generators mysteriously failed to use available capacity during the crunch also driving up prices and don t forget the sleazy games by energy traders who gleefully worked the system in schemes best summed up by an enron insider s boast in a memorandum made public in may that enron gets paid for moving energy to relieve congestion without actually moving any energy or relieving any congestion how much of this was illegal as opposed to simply amoral remains to be seen unfortunately california s response confusion lawsuits and policy tweaks hasn t been sufficient more unfortunately even if the state suddenly did all the right things including a hard nosed program designed to free ourselves from the gougers grips we would need a willing federal partner but it s foolish to think that the bush administration would do much to help one of its least favorite states or do anything that conflicts with its love of traditional non renewable energy sources if the lawsuits against various energy companies and traders bear any fruit the best we can expect is to pay off some of the massive debts the state amassed to prevent a total collapse in early NUMBER that s a reasonable approach but don t expect miracles state policies are moving the wrong way on utility regulation meanwhile instead of relentlessly pursuing smart deregulation still a good idea if it gives customers genuine choices state laws and regulations put the utilities back in the business of buying energy for captive customers notes v john white executive director of the sacramento based center for energy efficiency and renewable technologies www ceert org it s tempting to call for an outright state takeover of the utilities tempting but a bad idea when there s genuine competition as we could achieve in electricity generation the private sector tends to do a better job instead of abandoning deregulation california should find a way to inject real competition into the market we do need to recognize that the current system of delivering electricity defies privatization at least under current conditions smart regulation is essential but the best response to gouging is to use less of what the gougers control there are two ways conservation and replacement we need more of both the best recent step is a new state law that slowly but surely ratchets up the use of electricity from renewables by NUMBER california s utilities will have to get NUMBER percent of their power from solar and other renewable sources several power companies are expected to do this even sooner but this law has an element of old line thinking the captive customer model we need to be getting away from not sustaining lip service to newer ideas isn t enough the state should be removing barriers to micro generation systems small generators that can run on a variety of fuels and provide decentralized harder to disrupt electricity to homes and businesses this technology is coming along fast state policies are not keeping pace investing to save energy is increasingly the smartest move of all california should be doing more to encourage this whether through tax incentives or outright grants in low income households california hasn t done badly on conservation in a general sense and energy customers did react to last year s soaring rates and blackouts by cutting back but it s lunacy to wait for the next crisis when we can do something to avoid it altogether maybe this is all pointless the bush administration s energy policies so grossly tilted toward the unholy trinity of oil coal and nuclear are making us all more vulnerable never mind what might happen if the coming war in iraq goes badly it s pointless to hope for a sane federal policy a crash program to drastically speed the inevitable transition to a hydrogen based energy system but the largest state one of the world s major economies in its own right does have some clout we can hit the rip off artists where it hurts and protect ourselves from even more serious disruptions maybe next year r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
ok let s bring some data into the discussion URL a graph derived from vostok ice core samples of coNUMBER and temperature fluctuations over the past NUMBERk years recent high resolution studies of historical coNUMBER concentrations and temperatures over hundreds of thousands of years have shown a modest correlation between the two in a number of cases coNUMBER level increases are not in phase with temperature increases and actually trail the increase in temperature by a short time i e increases in temperature preceded increases in coNUMBER concentrations the more studies that are done of the geological record the more it seems that coNUMBER concentrations are correlated with temperature increases but are not significantly causative based on the vostok data you are right there is a very strong correlation between temperature and coNUMBER concentrations but it doesn t always appear to be causal with respect to absolute coNUMBER concentrations it is also important to point out that our best data to date suggests that they follow a fairly regular cycle with a period of about NUMBER NUMBER years also correct the peak of each cycle is at about NUMBER NUMBER ppm coNUMBER as it happens current coNUMBER concentrations are within NUMBER of other previous cyclical concentration peaks for which we have good data not correct mauna loa data URL and URL show that the current coNUMBER concentrations are at NUMBERppm NUMBER greater than the highest recorded value from the past NUMBERk years furthermore coNUMBER concentrations are growing at NUMBERppm every NUMBER years much faster than any recorded increase in the vostok data though perhaps the vostok data isn t capable of such fine resolution in other words we may be adding to the coNUMBER levels no we are definitely adding to coNUMBER levels look at the following chart URL shows coNUMBER concentrations since NUMBER the historical record not only is the coNUMBER increase over NUMBER years unprecedented in the vostok record it is clear that the rate of change is increasing not decreasing there is no other compelling explanation for this increase except for anthropogenic input you re really out on the fringe if you re debating this even global warming skeptics generally concede this point but it looks a lot like we would be building a molehill on top of a mountain in the historical record at the very least there is nothing anomalous about current coNUMBER concentrations wrong again current coNUMBER levels are currently unprecedented over the past NUMBERk years unless there is some mechanism that allows coNUMBER levels to quickly spike and then return back to normal background levels and hence the spike might not show up in the ice cores still by around NUMBER NUMBER we will have reached NUMBER ppm coNUMBER a level that even you would have a hard time arguing away also coNUMBER levels interact with the biosphere in a manner that ultimately affects temperature again the interaction is not entirely predictable but this is believed to be one of the regulating negative feedback systems mentioned above yes clouds and oceans are a big unknown still we know ocean water has a finite capacity to store coNUMBER and if the world temperature doesn t increase but we all have seattle like weather all the time the effects would be enormous last as greenhouse gases go coNUMBER isn t particularly potent although it makes up for it in volume in some cases gases such as water and methane have a far greater impact as greenhouse gases on a per molecule basis water vapor may actually be the key greenhouse gas something that coNUMBER only indirectly effects through its interaction with the biosphere correct data on relative contributions of greenhouse gasses URL note that methane concentrations now are much higher than pre industrial levels many cows farting and rice paddies outgassing and methane is also a contributor in the formation of atmospheric water vapor another clearly anthropogenic increase in a greenhouse gas i m in favor of reductions in methane levels as well data on water vapor here URL coNUMBER was an easy mark for early environmentalism but all the recent studies and data i ve seen gives me the impression that it is largely a passenger on the climate ride rather than the driver i tend to think that holistic and techical approaches would work best in reducing global warming i favor an energy policy that has a mix of solar wind and nuclear with all carbon based combustion using renewable sources of c h bonds aggressive pursuit of carbon sink strategies also makes sense burying trees deep underground for example approaches that involve reductions in lifestyle to a sustainable level are unrealistic americans just won t do it you d be surprised at the number of climate change researchers driving suvs but as california showed during last year s energy crisis shifts in patterns of consumption are possible and improved efficiency is an easy sell jim ,0
 can t think of how i d be running afoul of the spam filters with this post so here s the second try kissinger s book _does america need a foreign policy _ provides a few handy abstractions the ultimate dilemma of the statesman is to strike a balance between values idealism and interests realism and occasionally between peace and justice also he views historical american approaches to foreign policy as a bundle of three fibers hamiltonian we should only get involved in foreign adventures to preserve balances of power wilsonian we should only get involved in foreign adventures to further democracy etc jacksonian we should never get involved in foreign adventures unless we re attacked then we go rambo he has tactfully left out the hard realists as for the rest i gather wilsonians play the idealists and hamiltonians act where values and interests intersect and jacksonians act only when values and interests overlap kissinger himself seems to be a hamiltonian much of the book is about how he thinks we ought to be shaping the balance of power in various foreign regions maybe i ve been too affected by kant but i can t see that such a strategy works unless one can count on a bismarck runnning it how lopsided does the us look if everyone tries to run a balance of power politics dave the road to empire leads to domestic decay because in time the claims of omnipotence erode domestic restraints no empire has avoided the road to caesarism unless like the british empire it devolved its power before this process could develop in long lasting empires every problem turns into a domestic issue which should be handled very differently from international ones because the outside world no longer provides a counterweight and as challenges grow more diffuse and increasingly remote from the historic domestic base internal struggles become ever more bitter and in time violent a deliberate quest for hegemony is the surest way to destroy the values that made the united states great kings and tyrants generically have followed the same power politics garner popular support by keeping potential oligarchs down in other traditions a king is a legitimate tyrant and a tyrant an illegitimate king in the us i d hope that we like samuel wouldn t naturally make such fine distinctions ,0
 anyone heard of this law before back when i was running the wsmf shoutcast server these restrictions were just being placed on netcasters most folks laughed it off now with the license fees its not laughable anymore if you pay the fee you are bound to the restrictions if you dont your running the criminal line i still run a stream up on liveNUMBER its been playing the same NUMBER hour block of jean shepard shows for the last year i really should change them up if i were going to do the old wsmf shoutcast now adays i would either spend lots of time going over regulations to see what i can or cannot do or i would just chuck the regs out and do what i want or i might write some apps to stay in regs i dont know one thing is for sure it defiently takes the spontaneous edge off things f murray abraham f scott fitzgerald f hillary rossen tom ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER gordon mohr wrote in contrast take a look at this article by simon j wilkie of caltech wow that wilkie article is the single best explanation i ve seen the open question is whether any analysis before the fact warned the politicians or whether the politicians were forewarned and went ahead what did they know and when did they know it ,0
on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote this kiddies was apparently the legislative beginnings of the whole streaming audio gets spanked by fees ruling that came down in the earlier parts of this year this first act applied to non exempt non subscription transmission services when congress got around in NUMBER and realized that webcasting services might be different though i honestly can t see how they wrote in the provision through the dmca to include such transmissions the restrictive law regarding audio is actually the accumulated cruft of NUMBER years of various legislative acts the totality of what we have now come from various parts of all the following re sound recordings NUMBER dmca NUMBER digital performance right in sound recordings act NUMBER audio home recording act NUMBER copyright act amendment NUMBER copyright act amendment it is worth noting that many people have forgotten about the NUMBER copyright act amendment which created the foundational law stating that the copyright owners have the right to limit personal use of audio recordings after first sale even if you are not making copies in any commercial sense sound recordings for many intents and purposes are explicitly excluded from fair use by the NUMBER amendment james rogers jamesr URL ,0
let s say you re behind a firewall and have a nat address is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world and set your display in some way that you can create xterms on your own screen joe that girl became the spring wind she flew somewhere far away undoing her hair lying down in her sleep she becomes the wind ,0
a friend in dublin is mailing me the cd which was in the uk sunday times i ve just been advised that running it in a winNUMBER machine is dangerous as all get out URL whump bill humphries bill whump com URL ,0
a friend in dublin is mailing me the cd which was in the uk sunday times i ve just been advised that running it in a winNUMBER machine is dangerous as all get out URL whump bill humphries bill whump com URL ,0
 joseph s barrera iii joe barrera org writes let s say you re behind a firewall and have a nat address is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world and set your display in some way that you can create xterms on your own screen assuming your local display is x ssh karl anderson kra URL URL ,0
wow three replies already all recommending ssh thanks joe back in my day they didn t have ssh then again back in my day they didn t have firewalls and i still miss xNUMBER s active icons ,0
 subject re digital radio playlists are prohibited from james rogers jamesr best com to fork URL date NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER rohit khare wrote anyone heard of this law before absolutely more accurately it is part of the riaas regulation for broadcasting music under their auspices this is actually part of the default statutory license the riaa is compelled to issue you can try and establish your own contract with each of the individual publishers in addition to the writers but that is a herculean undertaking in its own right the details are really gross and complicated perhaps the stations cannot publish digital playlists but you can get them from URL anyway they use some sort of listening and recognition technology to identify the music played on over NUMBER us radio stations jeff ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER joseph s barrera iii wrote let s say you re behind a firewall and have a nat address is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world and set your display in some way that you can create xterms on your own screen as other people suggested ssh putty URL can do it can run say xclock i m running an x server under wNUMBER at work tunneling through a nat box but from linux not from solaris probably openssh misconfiguratNUMBERion ,0
 i wanted to get back to this but didn t have the time i actually lived on a couple different indian reservations growing up in the pacific northwest and also spent a fair amount time in lakota sioux country as well and my parents have lived on an even more diverse range of indian reservations than i have my experience being a direct result of living with my parents i do get a lot of my information first hand or in some cases second hand from my father the income figures for the indians are somewhat misleading mostly because it is really hard to do proper accounting of the effective income while it is true that some indians live in genuine poverty it is typically as a consequence of previous poor decisions that were made by the tribe not something that was impressed upon them the primary problem with the accounting is that there is a tribal entity that exists separately from the individuals typically an indian corporation of one type or another where each member of the tribe owns a single share the details of when and how a share becomes active varies from tribe to tribe in most tribes a dividend is paid out to each of the tribal members from the corporation usually to the tune of NUMBER NUMBERk per person depending on the tribe the dividend money comes from a number of places with the primary sources being the federal gov t and various businesses assets owned by the indian corporation you have to understand a couple things first a great many indian tribes are run as purely communist enterprises everyone gets a check for their share no matter what one of the biggest problems this has caused is very high unemployment often NUMBER NUMBER for tribal members who are more than happy take their dividend and not work the dividend they receive from the corporation often constitutes their sole income for government accounting purposes unfortunately to support this type of economics when no one works they ve had to sell off most of their useful assets to maintain those dividends many of the tribes genuinely living in poverty do so because they have run out of things to sell yet nobody works one of the ironies is that on many of the reservations where the tribes still have assets to burn many of the people working in the stores and such are actually poor white folk not indians second even though the tribe members each get a cash dividend they also receive an enormous range of benefits and perks from the indian corporation to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per person annually by benefits and perks we are talking about the kinds of things no other ordinary american receives from either their employer or the government it should be pointed out that while many of these indian corporations are ineptly run and mostly provide sinecures for other indians a minority are very smartly managed and a few hire non indian business executives with good credentials to run their business divisions an example of this is the haida corporation which while having less NUMBER NUMBER tribal shareholders has billions of dollars in assets and the various corporations they own have gross revenues in the NUMBER NUMBER million range and growing yet the dividend paid out is strictly controlled about NUMBERk in this particular case and they engaged in a practice of waiting a couple decades before drawing money from any of the assets they were granted which has led to intelligent investment and use they don t eat their seed corn and have actually managed to grow their stash in contrast a couple islands over there is another tribe of NUMBER NUMBER people that has a net loss of about NUMBER million annually iirc while being regularly endowed by the federal government with several billions of dollars in valuable assets this particular tribe has a modest income in theory but the actual expenditures per person annually is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and many borrow money against future income incidentally in this particular case the people that are working frequently pull in a few hundred thousand dollars a year much of which goes back to the tribal corporation rather than their own pockets somewhat annoying the federal government semi regularly grants valuable assets to these tribes when they ve burned through the ones previously given where feasible typically selling the assets to american or foreign companies and the cycle continues so what is the primary problem for the tribes that have problems in a nutshell a thoroughly pathological culture and society few women reach the age of NUMBER without getting pregnant incest rape and gross promiscuity is rampant inbreeding heavy drug abuse during pregnancy and other environmental factors have created tribes where a very substantial fraction of the tribe is literally mentally retarded many of the thoughtful and intelligent tribe members leave the reservation at the earliest opportunity mostly to avoid the problems mentioned above on one reservation my parents lived the hiv infection rate was NUMBER many of these societies are thoroughly corrupt and the administration of the law is arbitrary and capricious they do have their own judges courts police etc in short many of these tribes that are still hanging together are in a shambles because they have become the most pathological societies that i have ever seen anywhere because of their legal status there really aren t that many consequences for their behavior there are many things that i could tell you that i ve seen that you probably would not believe unless you d seen it yourself there are always good people in these tribes but it has gotten to the point where the losers and idiots outnumber the good guys by a fair margin many times and this is a mobocracy typically btw if any of you white folk wants to experience overt and aggressive racism as a minority in a place where the rule of law is fiction and the police are openly thugs try living on one of these messed up indian reservations it will give you an interesting perspective on things there are only two real situations where you find reasonably prosperous indians the first is in the rare case of tribes run by disciplined and intelligent people that have managed their assets wisely the second is where the tribe has dispersed and assimilated for the most part even if they maintain their tribal identity in both of these cases the tribal leaders reject the insular behavior that tends to lead to the pathological cases mentioned above the indians are often quite wealthy technically and a lot of money is spent by the tribe per capita and the actual reportable income is quite high when you consider how many are living entirely off the tribal dole it is just that their peculiar economic structure does not lend itself well to ordinary economic analysis by merely looking at their nominal income the poverty is social and cultural in nature not economic this was my original point on a tangent one thing that has always interested me is the concept of quasi tribal corporate socialism many indian tribes implement a type of corporate socialism that is mind bogglingly bad in execution that they use this structure at all is an accident of history more than anything but what has interested me is that the very smartly managed ones do surprisingly well over the long run it is like a family corporation writ large it seems that in a future where familial ties will be increasingly voluntary the general concept may have some merit in general western society serving to create a facsimile of a biological extended family with the included dynamics but with an arbitrary set of self selecting individuals damn that was long and its late and it could have been a lot longer james rogers jamesr URL on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm john hall johnhall evergo net wrote as i understand it there is a huge difference between native americans who speak english at home and those who do not i don t have figures that separate those at hand though NUMBER american indians us pop as a whole families below poverty NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER persons below poverty NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER speak a language other than english NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER married couple families NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER median family income NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER per capita NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 in essence hindsight justification the progressives weren t in the middle they were in a society at one end and they wanted a society at the other end the middle is more or less where they got stopped as to an intervention that worked i actually have some nice things to say about the sec at least in theory i have a few nasty things to say as well but on the whole it has been a very good thing original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of geege schuman sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject liberalism in america liberalism propagandized as meddling in truth the middle american liberalism believes that in this respect it has made a major contribution to the grand strategy of freedom where both capitalists and socialists in the NUMBER s were trying to narrow the choice to either or either laissez faire capitalism or bureaucratic socialism the new deal persisted in its vigorous faith that human intelligence and social experiment could work out a stable foundation for freedom in a context of security and for security in a context of freedom that faith remains the best hope of free society today fluid yet crunchy gg URL ,0
on friday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am jim whitehead wrote i attended the oscom open source content management workshop at berkeley yesterday i really wanted to go to this especially to look at xopus unfortunately we re launching a new intranet at work next week and i couldn t get away xopus an xml native db such as xindice looks like something that could hit a home run whump i have a theory it could be bunnies ,0
adjournment of michel fournier s big jump in may NUMBER two attempts of launch failed the first because of the wind which got up prematurely and the second due to a technical hitch during the inflating of the envelope the team of the big jump folds luggage having waited up to the end for an opportunity for the launch of the balloon stratosphérique allowing to raise the capsule pressurized by michel fournier at more than NUMBER NUMBER metres in height as expected in the date of september NUMBER the jets stream strengthened in NUMBER kph announcing the imminent arrival of the winter and closing until next may the meteorological window favorable to a human raid in the stratosphere on the plains of saskatchewan the first snows are waited in the days which come meeting in all in may NUMBER today a french officer called michel fournier is supposed to get in a NUMBER metre tall helium balloon ride it up to the edge of space NUMBER km altitude and jump out his fall should last NUMBER NUMBER minutes and reach speeds of mach NUMBER NUMBER he hopes to open his parachute manually at the end although with an automatic backup if he is NUMBER seconds from the ground and still hasn t opened it r obquote vederò si averò si grossi li coglioni come ha il re di franza let s see if i ve got as much balls as the king of france pope julius ii NUMBER january NUMBER ,0
i attended the same conference and was impressed by a few systems that jim didn t mention in terms of cms the following all had apparently been used in some fairly large implementations and looked like some pretty strong competition to commercial systems midgard URL a php based content management framework that with other programs combines to be a full cms redhat ccm cms java based URL opencms java based URL there was agreement that usability has not generally been an open source strength but both plone and xopus represented some real movement towards improving that situation i was impressed by the spectrum of perspectives on xml some took for granted that xslt was relevant to content management others took it just as for granted that xslt was irrelevant and seemed happy to ignore xml almost completely i attended realizing that content management is generally used to apply to web content management but i was still a bit shocked how completely out of scope document management was almost no consideration of the potential print pdf dimension to content other than the occasional and you can use fop to make pdf as if that was functional this seems more the case in open source content management than in commercial content management and probably makes xml easier to ignore if html is the be all and end all of the output the honesty was refreshing phil suh complained about the state of current tools both open source and commercial and i wish i d written down what he said something like it sucks so extremely it sucks so widely and it is so generally sucking that it seems sometimes there is no hope for a moment there was contemplation that perhaps commercial systems scaled so well that the commercial big boys were really much more functional than open source until someone pointed out ok take some average blog software spend NUMBER NUMBER on the rollout it ll scale pretty well another quote citing brendan quinn content management problems are either trivial or impossible mac os x is getting popular of the laptops there it was an even NUMBER NUMBER each of mac linux windows i am sure it wasn t news to jim but i can t wait to try subversion a cvs replacement that supports some of the newer features of webdav URL i m also eager to try xopus i hope the developers make it back home safely they said they d only been in america four days but were already homeless max ,0
what s wrong with doing business over the web web forms there s promising replacements forms but this is the current state of the industry o you find something that you want to fill out it s a partnership form a signup for a web seminar a request for more information anything o you start wasting time typing in all those stupid fields and spend about NUMBER minutes going through all their stupid qualification hoops just to get a small piece of information whitepaper or a callback when halfway through you start to wonder if it s really worth your time to forever be stuck on their stupid prospect list o pull down tags are never put in order of use instead of alphabetized i was on a site just now that had every single country in the world listed the selection of your country was absolutely critical for you to hit submit but due to the layout the more tag on the second row was offscreen so it was impossible to select any country except about two dozen third world countries o even worse ever time you hit submit all forms based things complain about using the universal country phone number format and will cause you to re enter dashes instead of dots o when you get something that s not entered right you will go back and enter it right but then some other field or most likely pulldown will automatically get reset to the default value so that you will have to go back and resent that freaking thing too finally after all combinations of all pulldowns you may get a successful submit o you wait freaking forever just to get a confirmation o sometimes like today you won t be able to ever submit anything due to it being impossible to ever submit a valid set of information that is internally non conflicting according to whatever fhead wrote their forms submission what s wrong with this picture the company is screwing you by wasting your time enforcing their data collection standards on you i m sure there s someone in that company that would be willing to accept us u s usa united states u of a america etc and would know exactly which freaking country the interested party was from instead of forcing them to waste even more time playing web form geography i m starting to see the light of passport you want more information hit this passport button voila ieNUMBER and netscape NUMBER NUMBER have pre forms sutff but i always turn it off because you never know when there s that one field that you don t want to submit to the person you are submitting to that automatically gets sent i e the privacy stuff is well beyond the average user who will get screwed on privacy stuff so if crappy forms based submission is the state of practice for business enablement on the web i can t see this whole data submission and hurry up and wait for us to get back to you business process as working all that well greg ,0
i ll agree that webforms are a pain in the ass however it would seem to me that the problem with passport is the same one you noted with the autoform function providing more info than you want to that and some entity would be holding the passport info thus have all that data in the first place personally i d never trust them not to at least use it internally to market to me if not sell rent out just think of the ability they d have to build a profile for you since everything you went to was tracked to you and thats just the marketing side of it chris on sat NUMBER sep NUMBER gregory alan bolcer wrote what s wrong with doing business over the web web forms there s promising replacements forms but this is the current state of the industry o you find something that you want to fill out it s a partnership form a signup for a web seminar a request for more information anything o you start wasting time typing in all those stupid fields and spend about NUMBER minutes going through all their stupid qualification hoops just to get a small piece of information whitepaper or a callback when halfway through you start to wonder if it s really worth your time to forever be stuck on their stupid prospect list o pull down tags are never put in order of use instead of alphabetized i was on a site just now that had every single country in the world listed the selection of your country was absolutely critical for you to hit submit but due to the layout the more tag on the second row was offscreen so it was impossible to select any country except about two dozen third world countries o even worse ever time you hit submit all forms based things complain about using the universal country phone number format and will cause you to re enter dashes instead of dots o when you get something that s not entered right you will go back and enter it right but then some other field or most likely pulldown will automatically get reset to the default value so that you will have to go back and resent that freaking thing too finally after all combinations of all pulldowns you may get a successful submit o you wait freaking forever just to get a confirmation o sometimes like today you won t be able to ever submit anything due to it being impossible to ever submit a valid set of information that is internally non conflicting according to whatever fhead wrote their forms submission what s wrong with this picture the company is screwing you by wasting your time enforcing their data collection standards on you i m sure there s someone in that company that would be willing to accept us u s usa united states u of a america etc and would know exactly which freaking country the interested party was from instead of forcing them to waste even more time playing web form geography i m starting to see the light of passport you want more information hit this passport button voila ieNUMBER and netscape NUMBER NUMBER have pre forms sutff but i always turn it off because you never know when there s that one field that you don t want to submit to the person you are submitting to that automatically gets sent i e the privacy stuff is well beyond the average user who will get screwed on privacy stuff so if crappy forms based submission is the state of practice for business enablement on the web i can t see this whole data submission and hurry up and wait for us to get back to you business process as working all that well greg ,0
 g gregory alan bolcer gbolcer endeavors com writes g so if crappy forms based submission is the state of practice g for business enablement on the web i can t see this whole data g submission and hurry up and wait for us to get back to you g business process as working all that well i love this business if a bridge falls over the architect or the engineer is in court the next day but when a software bridge falls over we blame the air beneath it or the phase of the moon or more often the people walking on it what idiots don t they know you re supposed to walk on the balls of your feet not lead with your heels didn t they read the blueprints they were posted in the town hall any idiot would know the NUMBER NUMBERhz heel cadence would pop rivets on the structural supports geez pedestrians are so stupid ours is the only industry that can hold itself NUMBER un responsible for any and all sloth inflicted doom and the only industry which can also get away with feeding this myth of infallibility unquestioned to the media to investors to students and to each other god i hate telephones telephones are stupid i used a telephone to like call my broker yesterday and y know just after i d ordered those NUMBER shares of nortel you just gotta love a mass delusion like that although it s like a total shock to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERnines of all the employed website designers out there the truth is webforms can accept u s of a as a country incredible but true web forms can also accept multiple or even free form telephone numbers and can even be partitioned into manageable steps all this can also be done without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the world s second richest corporation assuming cisco is still NUMBER and vendor locking your business into their small transaction fee tithe of course try and tell one of those NUMBER niners that and they ll get all defensive black list you as a sh t disturber and undermine your reputation with the boss not that i m speaking first hand or anything gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
on saturday september NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm gary lawrence murphy wrote although it s like a total shock to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERnines of all the employed website designers out there the truth is webforms can accept u s of a as a country incredible but true web forms can also accept multiple or even free form telephone numbers and can even be partitioned into manageable steps all this can also be done without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the world s second richest corporation assuming cisco is still NUMBER and vendor locking your business into their small transaction fee tithe yes but this is what normally happened engineer we can put an input validator parser on the backend to do that designer there s a javascript library that can do some of the pre validation creative director i want it in blue with a zooming logo engineer can we get to that later we need to meet functional specs creative director you don t understand i want it in blue creative director oh and the site launches this friday because i sent out a press release about our new strategic partnership with hypecorp designer fine we ll just put a list of countries in a drop down engineer and we can validate against that list creative director i don t give a shit as long as it s in blue and has a link to my press release bill humphries bill whump com URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gregory alan bolcer wrote ieNUMBER and netscape NUMBER NUMBER have pre forms sutff but i always turn it off because you never know when there s that one field that you don t want to submit to the person you are submitting to that automatically gets sent i e the privacy stuff is well beyond the average user who will get screwed on privacy stuff opera NUMBER has an interesting way around this you just right click on each field and bring up a choice of prefilled local information that you can then choose to enter into the form now if they can just fix the irritating memory problems that operaNUMBER has hakon you listening udhay udhay shankar n udhay pobox com www digeratus com ,0
 b bill humphries bill whump com writes b yes but this is what normally happened b engineer we can put b designer there s a b creative director i want it in blue yup seen it happen oodles of times only all three of those folks are one and the same person the fourth is the business manager who says whatever so long as you do it on your own time gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
dear flatware i m about to undertake a massive project to index catalog well over one thousand cds that have been ripped to mpNUMBER and set up a server to stream them to different rooms in the house yes i own them all no i m not broadcasting them to the net can anyone give me some recommendations as to what free opensource software is best suited for this task i know there are a few forks out there who have tackled this problem before i d like to be able to dynamically generate play lists from queries like jazz released between NUMBER and NUMBER or artist such and such between these dates or just these artists or just this genre you get the idea in addition to having multiple streams that i can tune in to a la dmx i d like to be able to browse the database through a web interface from other computers in the house and pull specific music down to wherever i am thanks elias ,0
gary lawrence murphy wrote although it s like a total shock to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERnines of all the employed website designers out there the truth is webforms can accept u s of a as a country incredible but true web forms can also accept multiple or even free form telephone numbers and can even be partitioned into manageable steps all this can also be done without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the world s second richest corporation assuming cisco is still NUMBER and vendor locking your business into their small transaction fee tithe ah but you ve just gotten to the crux of the situation there s good design and bad design there s good testing and bad testing the problem is anyone can design a good web form but nobody does i think best practices hasn t caught up on main street web enablement yet there s some really great packages on how to do this stuff and in fact the usability people knew that web forms needed to be fixed NUMBER years ago so that s why we got xforms and xhtml you can shoot yourself in the foot and people usually do what the problem is they don t even recognize that they re gimpy ever they just keeping trundling along making a mess of everything assured in their job security that they can build web forms without even caring if they can be used or not beyond their test machine if you had a piece of software and a security warning came out NUMBER years ago on it would you run that software wouldn t you have patched or upgraded something so fundamentally broken NUMBER years and NUMBER months ago what i want to know is why would someone use web forms best practices from NUMBER years ago i mean you can get a college degree in that time imagine if the next version of microsoft windows or red hat linux forced you to use a tiled window manager sure tiled windows were the best we had for a brief period of time but they are completely useless except for some terminal based replacement applications the bottom line is if you can t get across the bridge then it s broken regardless of whose fault it really is and it s the business that needs to take responsibility as they are the ones that wanted to put the bridge there in the first place greg ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER elias wrote i m about to undertake a massive project to index catalog well over one thousand cds that have been ripped to mpNUMBER and set up a server to stream them to different rooms in the house yes i own them all no i m not broadcasting them to the net can anyone give me some recommendations as to what free opensource software is best suited for this task i know there are a few forks out there who have tackled this problem before see if URL meets your needs udhay udhay shankar n udhay pobox com www digeratus com ,0
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this article from URL has been sent to you by khare URL another reminder that the moral writ of intellectual property is and ought to be more limited than real property private money paid for these bits but expropriation may be fairer for ip than real p rohit khare URL vast detail on towers collapse may be sealed september NUMBER NUMBER by james glanz and eric lipton what is almost certainly the most sophisticated and complete understanding of exactly how and why the twin towers of the world trade center fell has been compiled as part of a largely secret proceeding in federal court in lower manhattan amassed during the initial stages of a complicated insurance lawsuit involving the trade center the confidential material contains data and expert analysis developed by some of the nation s most respected engineering minds it includes computer calculations that have produced a series of three dimensional images of the crumpled insides of the towers after the planes hit helping to identify the sequence of failures that led to the collapses an immense body of documentary evidence like maps of the debris piles rare photos and videos has also been accumulated in a collection that far outstrips what government analysts have been able to put together as they struggle to answer the scientifically complex and emotionally charged questions surrounding the deadly failures of the buildings but everyone from structural engineers to relatives of victims fear that the closely held information which includes the analysis and the possible answers that families and engineers around the world have craved may remain buried in sealed files or even destroyed bound by confidentiality agreements with their clients the experts cannot disclose their findings publicly as they wait for the case to play out such restrictions are typical during the discovery phase of litigation and as it now stands the judge in the case who has agreed that certain material can remain secret for the time being has approved standard legal arrangements that should the lawsuit be settled before trial could cause crucial material generated by the competing sides to be withheld we re obviously in favor of releasing the information but we can t until we re told what to do said matthys levy an engineer and founding partner at weidlinger associates who is a consultant in the case and the author of why buildings fall down how structures fail norton NUMBERnd edition NUMBER let s just say we understand the mechanics of the whole process of the collapse mr levy said monica gabrielle who lost her husband richard when the south tower fell and who is a member of the skyscraper safety campaign said the information should be disclosed if they have answers and are not going to share them i would be devastated mrs gabrielle said they have a moral obligation the lawsuit that has generated the information involves larry a silverstein whose companies own a lease on the trade center property and a consortium of insurance companies mr silverstein maintains that each jetliner that hit the towers constituted a separate terrorist attack entitling him to some NUMBER billion rather than half that amount as the insurance companies say as both sides have prepared their arguments they have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars acquiring expert opinion about exactly what happened to the towers dean davison a spokesman for industrial risk insurers of hartford one of the insurance companies in the suit said of the findings there are some confidentiality agreements that are keeping those out of the public domain today he conceded that differing opinions among the more than NUMBER insurers on his side of the case could complicate any release of the material as for his own company whose consultants alone have produced more than NUMBER NUMBER pages of analysis and thousands of diagrams and photographs mr davison said every attempt would be made to give the material eventually to public authorities and investigative teams still some of that analysis relies on information like blueprints and building records from other sources like the port authority of new york and new jersey which built and owned the trade center and supports mr silverstein in the suit mr davison said he was uncertain how the differing origins of the material would influence his company s ability to release information in a statement the port authority said access to documents would be decided on a case by case basis consistent with applicable law and policy adding that it would cooperate with federal investigations the fate of the research is particularly critical to resolve unanswered questions about why the towers fell given the dissatisfaction with the first major inquiry into the buildings collapse that investigation led by the federal emergency management agency was plagued by few resources a lack of access to crucial information like building plans and infighting among experts and officials a new federal investigation intended to remedy those failings has just begun at the national institute of standards and technology or nist an agency that has studied many building disasters officials with nist have said it could take years to make final determinations and recommendations for other buildings a process they now acknowledge might be speeded up with access to the analysis done by the consultants on the lawsuit gerald mckelvey a spokesman for mr silverstein said of the real estate executive s own heavily financed investigative work we decline to comment other than to say that silverstein is cooperating fully with the nist investigation a spokesman for the agency confirmed it was in discussions with mr silverstein on the material but said no transfer had taken place with no shortage of money or expertise investigations by both sides in the legal case have produced a startling body of science and theory some of it relevant not only to the trade center disaster but to other skyscrapers as well the work should be available to other investigators said ramon gilsanz a structural engineer and managing partner at gilsanz murray steficek who was a member of the earlier inquiry it could be used to build better buildings in the future legal experts say confidentiality arrangements like the one governing the material can lead to a variety of outcomes from full or partial disclosure to destruction of such information in some cases litigants who paid for the reports may make them public themselves or they may ask to have them sealed forever it is not unusual for one party or another to try to keep some of those documents secret for one reason or another some legitimate some not said lee levine a first amendment lawyer at levine sullivan koch in washington mr levine said that because of the presumed value of the information the court might look favorably on requests to make it public but the uncertainty over the fate of the material is unnerving to many people especially experts who believe that only a complete review of the evidence not piecemeal disclosures by litigants eager to protect their own interests could lead to an advance in the federal investigation of the trade center it s important for this to get presented and published and subjected to some scrutiny said dr john osteraas director of civil engineering practice at exponent failure analysis in menlo park calif and a consultant on the case because then the general engineering community can sort it out the scope of the investigation behind the scenes is vast by any measure mr levy and his colleagues at weidlinger associates hired by silverstein properties have called upon powerful computer programs originally developed with the pentagon for classified research to create a model of the sept NUMBER attack from beginning to end the result is a compilation of three dimensional images of the severed exterior columns smashed floor and damaged core of the towers beginning with the impacts and proceeding up to the moments of collapse those images which mr levy is not allowed to release have helped pinpoint the structural failures the fema investigators did not have access to such computer modeling nor did the fema team have unfettered access to the trade center site with all its evidence in the weeks immediately after the attacks but no such constraints hampered engineers at lza thornton tomasetti brought to the site for emergency work beginning on the afternoon of sept NUMBER daniel a cuoco the company president and a consultant to silverstein properties on the case said he had assembled detailed maps of the blazing debris at ground zero in models that perhaps contain further clues about how the towers fell though the fema team could not determine where things actually fell mr cuoco said we ve indicated the specific locations mr cuoco said he could not reveal any additional details of the findings nor would mr osteraas discuss the details of computer calculations his company has done on the spread of fires in large buildings like the twin towers mr osteraas has also compiled an extensive archive of photographs and videos of the towers that day some of which he believes have not been available to other investigators and the investigation has not limited itself to computers and documentary evidence for months experiments in wind tunnels in the united states and canada have been examining the aerodynamics that fed the flames that day and stressed the weakening structures jack cermak president of cermak peterka peterson in fort collins colo was retained by the insurance companies but had previously performed wind tunnel studies for the original design of the twin towers nearly NUMBER years ago for the legal case dr cermak said we ve done probably more detailed measurements than in the original design the data that have been acquired are very valuable in themselves for understanding how wind and buildings interact dr cermak said some of the information may be valuable for the litigation he said adding i think i ve told you all i can URL how to advertise for information on advertising in e mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with the new york times on the web please contact onlinesales URL or visit our online media kit at URL for general information about URL write to help URL copyright NUMBER the new york times company ,0
michael wrote URL i thought this nekkid url was going to be about the infringement of NUMBERst amendment rights for broadcasters and proposed campaign finanice restrictions preventing them from making money on advertisements that are deemed thinly veiled campaign contributions by some arbitrary government board as it was posted to discussion i thought there d be some instead it s a post gazette column by brian o neill lamenting the fact that some people know how to fill out a permit so that they can take advantage of their right to peaceable assembly obviously he s poking fun at the idea that specific groups get specific zones and that it s not up to the police to decide what messages and signs get put into what zones to most expediently keep order the problem is that politics have gotten so muddied nowadays that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting political rallies that you don t agree with has become common practice the courts have constantly ruled that there are some restrictions on the first amendment they teach you that your very first year of law school i think that given the information as laid out by the story mr o neill has confused free speech with action free speech or even protected speech as practiced by almost every american seems to involve the ability to communicate an idea to an unknown audience action involves directing a specific comment to a specific well defined individual or audience that has immediate harmful and sometimes physical effects that is easily forseeable by any reasonable person i think bill neel of butler needs to go back to school as obviously he must have been sleeping in his civics class or else they didn t teach civics in mini guantanamo oh NUMBER years ago greg ,0
owen byrne wrote what a load of crap politics are somehow more muddy now i d say that its considerably clearer the vast majority of people feel disenfranchised and the common practice of putting protestors in boxes is done usually to hide them from tv cameras visiting dignitaries etc further exacerbating those feelings unpeaceably disrupting political rallies is now usually done by police with riot gear and pepper spray we had a good one here a month or so ago a few people peaceably strayed from the permit area which was nearly a mile from the site of the meeting of finance ministers held here the motorcade drove by it for about NUMBER seconds and were immediately gassed beaten and arrested not very muddied at all what does that exactly have to do with the statement that distruption of peacable political assembly has become a common practice disruption tool it s an observation not a judgement comment approval you ve focused on the word muddy to use it in a different context than the one i posted maybe the distinction i was trying to make was too subtle and i was trying to be too clever with my writing this morning let me summarize the important parts of my post for you i have a premise that there is a difference between free and protected speech and action i think o neill on his soapbox doesn t understand the distinction all better greg ,0
 URL gab i thought this nekkid url was going to be about the gab infringement of NUMBERst amendment rights for broadcasters gab and proposed campaign finanice restrictions preventing them gab from making money on advertisements that are deemed gab thinly veiled campaign contributions by some arbitrary gab government board as it was posted to discussion i gab thought there d be some gab instead it s a post gazette column by brian o neill gab lamenting the fact that some people know how to gab fill out a permit so that they can take advantage gab of their right to peaceable assembly obviously gab he s poking fun at the idea that specific groups gab get specific zones and that it s not up to the gab police to decide what messages and signs get put into gab what zones to most expediently keep order oh thats right greg because was explicitly clear that the pro bush folks went out and did the permit dance so where in the article is this again lets get something straight here this is a first amendment issue public streets provided one isn t blocking traffic generally tend to be sorta ok at least from my last interpretation of con law a few years ago i ll feign ignorance wrt the fact that laws may have changed and the specific facts in this case are weak if this guy _was_ merely holding a sign which it seems was the case for all the pro bush folks he did nothing wrong he certainly didn t do enough of a wrong to warrant a disorderly conduct charge i ll play with your perspective though lets assume a few things if i walk into the city office and tell them i want to peacably assemble against bush do you think they ll give me a permit probably not so i lie then the cop does what happened in this scenario he walks up checks my permit and finds out that i falsified my statement to get this said document he arrests me end of story gab the problem is that politics have gotten so muddied gab nowadays that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting gab political rallies that you don t agree with has become gab common practice the courts have constantly ruled gab that there are some restrictions on the first amendment gab they teach you that your very first year of law school i ll agree with owen on this one muddied my ass how hard is it to chose between a republocrat or a demipublican not very shouting down has grown to become the answer because the government over a span of years and with the help of the courts has limited the rights we have as citizens under the first amendment if you question the policy about terrorism or drugs or iraq or bush in general you re aiding terrorism if you challenge the beliefs of the folks attending the various shadowy gNUMBER conferences you re an anarchist and you re herded off to a designated protest spot miles away from anything part of the point of speech is to be heard i can scream on my soapbox in the forest somewhere and while thats speech its not effective speech people are screaming and shouting over the political figures because they cannot be heard in any other way gab i think that given the information as laid out by the story gab mr o neill has confused free speech with action free gab speech or even protected speech as practiced by almost gab every american seems to involve the ability to communicate gab an idea to an unknown audience action involves directing gab a specific comment to a specific well defined individual or audience gab that has immediate harmful and sometimes physical gab effects that is easily forseeable by any reasonable person getting back to my original point how do you communicate an idea to an unknown audience if you re miles from where the audience is how do you bypass the rules for being miles away from the audience without violating the rules of the regime i don t think mr nell was throwing pies at bush a sign the last time i checked didn t cause physical injury or even emotional harm if i remember cohen v california NUMBER u s NUMBER NUMBER its not the individual speaking that has the requirement to desist but the individual listening who has the option to leave just my NUMBER while its still considered legal best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
 the problem is that politics have gotten so muddied nowadays that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting political rallies that you don t agree with has become common practice the courts have constantly ruled that there are some restrictions on the first amendment they teach you that your very first year of law school i don t think politics is any muddier people are becoming increasingly unethical it s a breakdown in home training bill ,0
gregory alan bolcer wrote at zones to most expediently keep order the problem is that politics have gotten so muddied nowadays that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting political rallies that you don t agree with has become common practice the courts have constantly ruled that there are some restrictions on the first amendment they teach you that your very first year of law school what a load of crap politics are somehow more muddy now i d say that its considerably clearer the vast majority of people feel disenfranchised and the common practice of putting protestors in boxes is done usually to hide them from tv cameras visiting dignitaries etc further exacerbating those feelings unpeaceably disrupting political rallies is now usually done by police with riot gear and pepper spray we had a good one here a month or so ago a few people peaceably strayed from the permit area which was nearly a mile from the site of the meeting of finance ministers held here the motorcade drove by it for about NUMBER seconds and were immediately gassed beaten and arrested not very muddied at all owen ,0
 looks useful hopefully they ll put up some more material soon URL ,0
 gab the problem is that politics have gotten so muddied gab nowadays that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting gab political rallies that you don t agree with has become gab common practice the courts have constantly ruled gab that there are some restrictions on the first amendment gab they teach you that your very first year of law school i ll agree with owen on this one muddied my ass how hard is it to chose between a republocrat or a demipublican not very shouting down has grown to become the answer because the government over a span of years and with the help of the courts has limited the rights we have as citizens under the first amendment wishful thinking people are just bigger dickheads now culture is changing and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down when you disagree with them the people that do this are not disenfranchised they get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes the act of protesting is more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these people question the policy about terrorism or drugs or iraq or bush in general you re aiding terrorism if you challenge the beliefs of the folks attending the various shadowy gNUMBER conferences you re an anarchist and you re herded off to a designated protest spot miles away from anything part of the point of speech is to be heard i can scream on my soapbox in the forest somewhere and while thats speech its not effective speech people are screaming and shouting over the political figures because they cannot be heard in any other way and where does this end shouting down speakers is an obviously stupid tactic if they are really interested in advocating change are they such clueless social morons that they don t see this or are they just interested in stroking their pathetic egos obtw clueless social moron syndrom does not have political boundaries bill ,0
bill stoddard wrote wishful thinking people are just bigger dickheads now nah they ve always been this way culture is changing and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down when you disagree with them culture changing yeh those who fail to learn from history what does it tell you when a market chain is named bread and circus and no one twigs ken p ken coar sanagendamgagwedweinini URL author developer opinionist URL millennium hand and shrimp ,0
 wishful thinking people are just bigger dickheads now culture is changing and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down when you disagree with them the people that do this are not disenfranchised they get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes the act of protesting is more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these people ob in my experience this is classic american behaviour and i don t ob think its on the increase outside of the us of a ob i am willing to accept the premise that americans are bigger dickheads ob then they used to be sighs right because americans are the only people capable of being assholes shit history keeps fucking up when they keep mentioning all the historical examples of dickhead ness that have proceeded the us after all we re the only country who gets unruly when it comes to issues thats why its always just the americans at those crazy wto meetings right owen best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
bitbitch URL wrote wishful thinking people are just bigger dickheads now culture is changing and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down when you disagree with them the people that do this are not disenfranchised they get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes the act of protesting is more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these people ob in my experience this is classic american behaviour and i don t ob think its on the increase outside of the us of a ob i am willing to accept the premise that americans are bigger dickheads ob then they used to be sighs right because americans are the only people capable of being assholes shit history keeps fucking up when they keep mentioning all the historical examples of dickhead ness that have proceeded the us after all we re the only country who gets unruly when it comes to issues thats why its always just the americans at those crazy wto meetings right owen a flippant remark that i will probably regret sure there s assholes everywhere i just remember a lunch in spain with a semi famous american i think we had about NUMBER nationalities at the table and he managed to insult each of them within NUMBER minutes a historical perspective makes me think that empires roman british russian american whatever produce a larger proportion of assholes than subject nations and are more likely to have them in positions of authority owen ,0
bill stoddard wrote gab the problem is that politics have gotten so muddied gab nowadays that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting gab political rallies that you don t agree with has become gab common practice the courts have constantly ruled gab that there are some restrictions on the first amendment gab they teach you that your very first year of law school i ll agree with owen on this one muddied my ass how hard is it to chose between a republocrat or a demipublican not very shouting down has grown to become the answer because the government over a span of years and with the help of the courts has limited the rights we have as citizens under the first amendment wishful thinking people are just bigger dickheads now culture is changing and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down when you disagree with them the people that do this are not disenfranchised they get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes the act of protesting is more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these people in my experience this is classic american behaviour and i don t think its on the increase outside of the us of a i am willing to accept the premise that americans are bigger dickheads then they used to be owen ,0
 original message from bitbitch magnesium net people are screaming and shouting over the political figures because they cannot be heard in any other way what are they illiterate mute what s their problem if somebody stops them from posting web pages or printing newsletters or talking on the phone or organizing their own conference then that would be wrong i don t think free speech is a license to speak directly at and be in the physical presence of any particular individual of your choosing especially when that individual is busy doing something else and isn t interested ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER owen byrne wrote in my experience this is classic american behaviour and i don t think its on the increase outside of the us of a in my experience this protest behavior is really only an issue in ultra liberal coastal cities which is where i normally live it is part of the culture and that behavior is viewed as acceptable for comparison contrast this with the character of the arguably more serious protests against federal government abuse in the inter mountain west they have a very different idea of what constitutes acceptable protest practice those protests remain largely civil and polite if heated and aggressive and those involve a far greater percentage of the local population and unlike NUMBER of the liberal coastal city protests i ve seen the people protesting in the inter mountain west are actually facing immediate dire consequences from the activities they are protesting and are strongly motivated to protest in a manner that gets results some of their tactics such as the practice of many businesses and restaurants in northern nevada to not give service to anyone known to be in the employ of the blm and related agencies have been very effective at forcing dialog i don t recall anyone characterizing their protests as impolite rude or violent but then they have more to lose james rogers jamesr URL ,0
hello mr monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote mf original message mf from bitbitch URL people are screaming and shouting over the political figures because they cannot be heard in any other way mf what are they illiterate mute what s their problem if somebody stops mf them from posting web pages or printing newsletters or talking on the mf phone or organizing their own conference then that would be wrong perhaps cannot be heard in any other way period was incorrect what i meant was a time specific occurence sure there are other means outside of the circumstance of the occurence but until we re willing to eliminate the ability to speak in public only for the side that doesn t agree with the political force and make that part of the NUMBERst amendment the parties are screaming and shouting over political figures because they cannot be heard to those figures in any other way mf i don t think free speech is a license to speak directly at and be in the mf physical presence of any particular individual of your choosing especially mf when that individual is busy doing something else and isn t interested sure and that goes back to my second argument cohen they can walk away nobody compells them to stand there i ll agree fully but we still have a constitutional right to speak out against policies actions and grievances again if you want it another way lets change the constitution best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
 original message from bitbitch magnesium net the parties are screaming and shouting over political figures because they cannot be heard to those figures in any other way the right to speak is not the same as the right to be heard by the audience of the speakers choice disruptive protests might be a means to create awareness but that s a pretty lame way to do it if it truly is the only way then i m all for it but disruption for the sake of showing how committed the protesters are is pretty weak ,0
 webforms can accept u s of a as a country incredible but true web forms can also accept multiple or even free form telephone numbers are the people who use procrustean web forms practices the same ones who don t accept faxes when i really need to get something done instead of just idle surfing i call or fax faxing like a web form can be done NUMBERxNUMBER it allows me to give all the and only the pertinent info in a single place it also provides a self journalled correspondence which means rollback is easy and replay is even easier dave sure tiled windows were the best we had for a brief period of time but they are completely useless except for some terminal based replacement applications i ve been running a tiled but somewhat overlapped yielding a horizontal stack window manager lately like filling in a web form finding edges and shuffling windows may seem productive but i find that having a window manager manage the windows means i can concentrate on what i want to do with their contents dumb question x client behind a firewall back in my day they didn t have ssh then again back in my day they didn t have firewalls back in my day when one changed computer installations email would be forwarded as a courtesy now we seem to have swung so far in the opposite direction that it makes sense to ditch addresses every couple of years to shed spam ,0
 from owen byrne owen permafrost net a flippant remark that i will probably regret sure there s assholes everywhere i just remember a lunch in spain with a semi famous american i think we had about NUMBER nationalities at the table and he managed to insult each of them within NUMBER minutes a historical perspective makes me think that empires roman british russian american whatever produce a larger proportion of assholes than subject nations and are more likely to have them in positions of authority yep those that win battles collect tthe spoils lead and breed want it to be different lead don t whine ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER tom wrote if the set passes around enough then more people have these works the more folks that have them now while they are still legal to have the likely they will be left behind in the possible probabale copyright chillout and if that doesnt happen then more folks than not will still we will be getting blacknet like guerilla pNUMBERp pretty soon packaging it into wormcode with an initial userbase of a few NUMBER k to mnodes gives you pretty bulletproof plausible deniability have it for uses all manner of shades ,0
 mf i don t think free speech is a license to speak directly at and be in the mf physical presence of any particular individual of your choosing especially mf when that individual is busy doing something else and isn t interested yep i agree NUMBER sure and that goes back to my second argument cohen they can walk away nobody compells them to stand there i ll agree fully but we still have a constitutional right to speak out against policies actions and grievances again if you want it another way lets change the constitution huh are you saying that whoever has the loudest voice gets to be heard shouting down a public speaker could be considered a form of censorship if shouting down public speakers is protected it is only a matter of time before the people doing the shouting have their tactic used against them every single time they open their mouth the tactic is stupid and non productive and if generally used will only result in chaos the tactic is just stupid ego bation at best unless the goal is to generate chaos and humans whose goals and actions in life are to create chaos in society should be locked up provided you can accurately identify them which is not really possible anyway but hey this is my rant imho bill ,0
hello bill monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote mf i don t think free speech is a license to speak directly at and be in the mf physical presence of any particular individual of your choosing especially mf when that individual is busy doing something else and isn t interested bs yep i agree NUMBER sure and that goes back to my second argument cohen they can walk away nobody compells them to stand there i ll agree fully but we still have a constitutional right to speak out against policies actions and grievances again if you want it another way lets change the constitution bs huh are you saying that whoever has the loudest voice gets to be heard bs shouting down a public speaker could be considered a form of censorship if bs shouting down public speakers is protected it is only a matter of time bs before the people doing the shouting have their tactic used against bs them every single time they open their mouth the tactic is stupid and bs non productive and if generally used will only result in chaos the tactic bs is just stupid ego bation at best unless the goal is to generate chaos bs and humans whose goals and actions in life are to create chaos in society bs should be locked up provided you can accurately identify them which is not bs really possible anyway but hey this is my rant imho bs bill no offense or anything but there s a difference between holding a sign that doesn t agree with bush and screaming at him my sole point as far as the NUMBERst amendment goes is that there is more to this game than just being an angry liberal youth which is the gross culmination of everyone s argument sofar the screaming isn t the most effective method around i don t believe i argued that it was but screaming is happening because the means to communicate to the representatives involved are diminishing at least as far as the people doing the screaming are concerned for the record i don t support the screamers in organized conferences such as the colin powell shout down that was mentioned earlier i don t think that this is what the NUMBERst amendment was implying these folks do have a right to be heard and i think they have a right to be heard by the folks they elected in the first place my point my only point was really more concerned with the cases such as mr nell he wasn t engaged at least from the limited facts we have in a shoutout but rather in a difference of opinion he has a right to possess this opinion and make it known to the representatives that are elected a sign is not a shout out i think i may have missed or not accurately addressed the original thread switch that took this example and mixed in the screaming dissenters to the mix i was mostly responding with my miffedness in having broad brush strokes applied to a group without examining the policy reasons that might have contributed to it in this case the screaming parties are fed up with getting corralled miles away from the folks they need to speak with they re resorting to creative offensive and constitutionally challengable means but its not simply due to the fact that they re NUMBER and have lost all decorum the my generation never did this is all bs there s more to this story we just dont know it all i hope this clarifies my position for the quick rehash screaming free speech on all cases dissent free speech provided you follow what has been laid down by the supremes k best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
on saturday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you struggled free to say although it s like a total shock to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERnines of all the employed website designers out there the truth is webforms can accept u s of a as a country incredible but true web forms can also accept multiple or even free form telephone numbers and can even be partitioned into manageable steps all this can also be done without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the world s second richest corporation assuming cisco is still NUMBER and vendor locking your business into their small transaction fee tithe think of all the people and places that would not get unsolicited mail if we hadn t invented them though perhaps ordering a free enron mug as the king of hell i think it s like pNUMBERp met whatever commercial like forum was rocking yesterday and they took all greg s extra serotonin and lit up and made a successful go of personal address palettes you could occupy and own or rent and even move or sell so you d reply to all the whitepaper sites you wouldn t just call to get the real deal like okay let s say i m in factorytown guangzhou and i m a battery acid supervisor for a multinational that sometimes buys bNUMBERs e mail me if you get your story written up all the way or today i m a NUMBERlb NUMBERm tall mophead with pearlecent teeth and excellent sex linked features but who uses solaris nntp clients got it or merely i can t read baseNUMBER messages i use small alphabets and NUMBER letter words that didn t come from the bible and use calculus and i d thank you to class me as a catamite yes but this is what normally happened engineer we can put an input validator parser on the backend to do that creative director i don t give a shit as long as it s in blue and has a link to my press release nNUMBERkkNUMBERd prrNUMBERzzewNUMBERlz ahr NUMBERvNUMBERl but i thought it had to do with coldfusion compatiblie plugins servlets whatever that overhyped unimplemented features repeatedly openly in rakish NUMBERmb branding first downloads that meshed well with budgeting policies ,0
gregory alan bolcer i m not sure since i haven t attended civics class in quite some time but the first amendment doesn t cover protected speech hate speech or actions the first two are wrong the first amendment does protect speech the supreme court decides it protects duh and that happens to include most of what people consider hate speech unlike many other nations the us has no laws against hate speech per se and the first amendment is the reason for that _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL ,0
one of the most bizarre pages i ve seen on the web at first i thought it might be some sort of back story to a rpg but nope it looks like somebody believes this URL mNUMBER dinosaurs eggs and the origins of good and evil dinosaurs reptoid ets are reported to be NUMBER foot high crocodiles walking on their hind legs this is a description of a dinosaur it now appears in remote viewing that the reptoid ets dinosaurs and dragons are all linked together and that they all originated on earth the erideans who are reptoid derivatives have a home planet in the eridanus system like all other ets the reptoids have no reported home planet they also come over as entities with little brain who control their bodies directly by spirit this is a description of a ghost or disincarnate entity regardless of how people see them thus it could be that the reptoids erideans nordics anunnaki but not the greys all have origins on earth and have a strong link to earth even if they choose to live elsewhere the greys do not appear to have a renal or urinary system and this points to them not originating on earth the definitive work on dragons is the flight of dragons by peter dickinson if dragons did exist in the flesh they did not survive the long bow targets do not come much bigger truth is stranger than fiction thus the writer s current scenario is that there were a race of dinosaurs which developed psychic intelligence to guard their eggs and young and who probably preferred to live underground they survived the wipe out of the dinosaurs NUMBER million years ago with difficulty they evolved into the erideans and transferred to a more hospitable planet for them possibly with the help of another race of ets who wanted slaves but otherwise had no interest in earth or mind control thus it appears that the current reptoids are the spirits or ghosts of the dinosaurs they must have been powerful to survive NUMBER million years and also to appear to some people they have appeared to the writer in remote viewing they are living on as vampire entities such immortal minds are contagious and can easily jump race and species barriers if they can be encouraged to reincarnate then the power sources of the black magicians and mind controllers will disappear encouraging them to reincarnate will help so called immortal minds to disappear as immortal minds have great difficulty surviving reincarnation purging people s dinosaurs should remove all perverse psychic abilities not under their control they are a source of satanic guardian angels and demons they control us by owning our psi thus if we regain ownership of psi we must relinquish their control and that of all other mind controllers encourage people to regain ownership of their psi the origins of love hate and pure malice the following scenario appears to hold water and can account for the origins of our universal subconscious dinosaurs laid their eggs and buried them either underground or in piles of rotting vegetation a good source of beetles and grubs for young hatchelings they did not sit on their eggs to keep them warm which made them very vulnerable to drastic climate and temperature change in order to keep away predators some at least developed psychic mind control to do this they had to capture ownership of the psi of potential predators this is an act of hatred and outward looking while a few dinosaurs did develop the ability to bear living young most did not the dinosaurs got in first and so their mind control tends to override all other latter minds they have become the source of all satans devils and demons birds on the other hand developed the ability to sit on their eggs and keep them warm a hen bird normally lays a series of eggs say one per day and only starts sitting when the clutch is completely laid thus all eggs tend to hatch together as they all have an equal period of warmth this is primarily an act of love but inward looking bearing live young is not suitable to a bird of the air a pregnant pigeon would not fly very far antarctic penguins tuck a single egg between their legs to keep it warm even if they are standing on ice mammals developed live bearing of their young which is also primarily an act of love and inward looking this is especially true as a mammalian female can not desert her young in the womb in case of emergency as can a bird sitting on a nest dinosaurs developed hate and mind control of others to protect their young while birds and mammals developed love birds and mammals certainly do hate all enemies of their young but this is secondary if one wants to purge the sources of malice of say a black magician then purge his dinosaurs and his dinosaur eggs unfortunately most of our religions are based on dinosaur protection of eggs and thus mind control regardless of the front they put out to the public religion tends to concentrate on how to brainwash your neighbour conscious thought has built many mighty empires theologies and slave control systems out of using how to care for and protect one s young as a foundation thus the foulest form of abuse possible is to call something a load of dinosaur s eggs purging the dinosaurs and dinosaur s eggs of any entity tends to purge all malice back to its roots it looks as if mighty immortal minds have built up from small beginnings aided and abetted by various occultists and other as they will insist on vampiring the living for energy to avoid reincarnation and disturbing the serenity of the writer he encourages them to reincarnate items for inspection for mind control to take place then someone must take control or ownership of the target s psi and pleasure centres check for the following nest of dinosaur s eggs holy dinosaurs etc eggs controllers or owners in peoples psi pleasure centres pain killing hormones abilities etc mind machines the original engraving or engram god and satan appear to be job titles and not entities in their own right t hey appear to be dinosaur engravings or engrams no doubt dinosaurs were the first job holders timetracks are worth investigating as our complete history from the start of time my our man s timetracks etc the time tracks of the universe universal subconscious galactic subconscious etc extinct races of ets can cause problems when they live on in vampire mode their virtues may known to channelers but they can also have vices whenever one hears of races which have evolved on to higher planes suspect that the higher plane is a vampire one one may never know what they looked like or other basic characteristics which makes linking back a trifle difficult every extinct race etc blood ancestors are also worth investigating as minds can be passed down via genetic linkages some of these can be over NUMBER NUMBER years old every blood ancestor ancestral mind genetic mind etc ,0
wow talk about a pheenomeenon URL amithisornot dynamic peer rating system what is it it s a tool to help you build your own am i x or not sites where can i get it basic version NUMBER the basic version lets you build a specific am i x site example the license covers a single installation on a single site advanced version NUMBER the advanced version lets your users create their own am i x sites example the license covers a single installation on a single site installation NUMBER either version of the system can be installed on your web server given ftp access and mysql login details ,0
 URL act dtl opening arguments are set to begin early next month in eldred vs ashcroft a landmark u s supreme court case that will decide the future of copyright law including how and when artists and writers can build upon the work of others to heighten public awareness of the importance of the case an internet bookmobile is set to depart san francisco next monday on a trip that will bring it to the steps of the supreme court building in washington d c before arguments wrap up the van which will be stopping at schools libraries and senior centers along the way is equipped to provide free high speed access to thousands of literary and artistic works that are already in the public domain i had the opportunity to visit the internet archive about a month ago and saw the bookmobile under construction it s a neat idea take an suv put a small satellite dish on the top and put a computer printer and binding machine in the back voila people can search for a book then print out a copy right there on the spot quite literally on demand printing total fixed cost of the computer printer binding machine if bought new the ia had the equipment donated is under NUMBERk one of the goals is to show libraries across the country that they could if they wished add these virtual holdings public domain materials to their existing library at a fixed cost most libraries can afford this should be compelling to small libraries in remote areas jim ,0
 URL numerous artists drawing characters on a cliff ,0
neat stuff seems to combine elements of scientology xenu and david icke URL gordon original message from mr fork fork_list hotmail com to fork spamassassin taint org sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject dinosaurs eggs and the origins of good and evil one of the most bizarre pages i ve seen on the web at first i thought it might be some sort of back story to a rpg but nope it looks like somebody believes this URL mNUMBER dinosaurs eggs and the origins of good and evil dinosaurs reptoid ets are reported to be NUMBER foot high crocodiles walking on their hind legs this is a description of a dinosaur it now appears in remote viewing that the reptoid ets dinosaurs and dragons are all linked together and that they all originated on earth the erideans who are reptoid derivatives have a home planet in the eridanus system like all other ets the reptoids have no reported home planet they also come over as entities with little brain who control their bodies directly by spirit this is a description of a ghost or disincarnate entity regardless of how people see them thus it could be that the reptoids erideans nordics anunnaki but not the greys all have origins on earth and have a strong link to earth even if they choose to live elsewhere the greys do not appear to have a renal or urinary system and this points to them not originating on earth the definitive work on dragons is the flight of dragons by peter dickinson if dragons did exist in the flesh they did not survive the long bow targets do not come much bigger truth is stranger than fiction thus the writer s current scenario is that there were a race of dinosaurs which developed psychic intelligence to guard their eggs and young and who probably preferred to live underground they survived the wipe out of the dinosaurs NUMBER million years ago with difficulty they evolved into the erideans and transferred to a more hospitable planet for them possibly with the help of another race of ets who wanted slaves but otherwise had no interest in earth or mind control thus it appears that the current reptoids are the spirits or ghosts of the dinosaurs they must have been powerful to survive NUMBER million years and also to appear to some people they have appeared to the writer in remote viewing they are living on as vampire entities such immortal minds are contagious and can easily jump race and species barriers if they can be encouraged to reincarnate then the power sources of the black magicians and mind controllers will disappear encouraging them to reincarnate will help so called immortal minds to disappear as immortal minds have great difficulty surviving reincarnation purging people s dinosaurs should remove all perverse psychic abilities not under their control they are a source of satanic guardian angels and demons they control us by owning our psi thus if we regain ownership of psi we must relinquish their control and that of all other mind controllers encourage people to regain ownership of their psi the origins of love hate and pure malice the following scenario appears to hold water and can account for the origins of our universal subconscious dinosaurs laid their eggs and buried them either underground or in piles of rotting vegetation a good source of beetles and grubs for young hatchelings they did not sit on their eggs to keep them warm which made them very vulnerable to drastic climate and temperature change in order to keep away predators some at least developed psychic mind control to do this they had to capture ownership of the psi of potential predators this is an act of hatred and outward looking while a few dinosaurs did develop the ability to bear living young most did not the dinosaurs got in first and so their mind control tends to override all other latter minds they have become the source of all satans devils and demons birds on the other hand developed the ability to sit on their eggs and keep them warm a hen bird normally lays a series of eggs say one per day and only starts sitting when the clutch is completely laid thus all eggs tend to hatch together as they all have an equal period of warmth this is primarily an act of love but inward looking bearing live young is not suitable to a bird of the air a pregnant pigeon would not fly very far antarctic penguins tuck a single egg between their legs to keep it warm even if they are standing on ice mammals developed live bearing of their young which is also primarily an act of love and inward looking this is especially true as a mammalian female can not desert her young in the womb in case of emergency as can a bird sitting on a nest dinosaurs developed hate and mind control of others to protect their young while birds and mammals developed love birds and mammals certainly do hate all enemies of their young but this is secondary if one wants to purge the sources of malice of say a black magician then purge his dinosaurs and his dinosaur eggs unfortunately most of our religions are based on dinosaur protection of eggs and thus mind control regardless of the front they put out to the public religion tends to concentrate on how to brainwash your neighbour conscious thought has built many mighty empires theologies and slave control systems out of using how to care for and protect one s young as a foundation thus the foulest form of abuse possible is to call something a load of dinosaur s eggs purging the dinosaurs and dinosaur s eggs of any entity tends to purge all malice back to its roots it looks as if mighty immortal minds have built up from small beginnings aided and abetted by various occultists and other as they will insist on vampiring the living for energy to avoid reincarnation and disturbing the serenity of the writer he encourages them to reincarnate items for inspection for mind control to take place then someone must take control or ownership of the target s psi and pleasure centres check for the following nest of dinosaur s eggs holy dinosaurs etc eggs controllers or owners in peoples psi pleasure centres pain killing hormones abilities etc mind machines the original engraving or engram god and satan appear to be job titles and not entities in their own right t hey appear to be dinosaur engravings or engrams no doubt dinosaurs were the first job holders timetracks are worth investigating as our complete history from the start of time my our man s timetracks etc the time tracks of the universe universal subconscious galactic subconscious etc extinct races of ets can cause problems when they live on in vampire mode their virtues may known to channelers but they can also have vices whenever one hears of races which have evolved on to higher planes suspect that the higher plane is a vampire one one may never know what they looked like or other basic characteristics which makes linking back a trifle difficult every extinct race etc blood ancestors are also worth investigating as minds can be passed down via genetic linkages some of these can be over NUMBER NUMBER years old every blood ancestor ancestral mind genetic mind etc ,0
russell turpin wrote gregory alan bolcer i m not sure since i haven t attended civics class in quite some time but the first amendment doesn t cover protected speech hate speech or actions the first two are wrong the first amendment does protect speech the supreme court decides it protects duh and that happens to include most of what people consider hate speech unlike many other nations the us has no laws against hate speech per se and the first amendment is the reason for that this was poking fun of the practice of making up differnt types of speech with different types of protected status i think the laws specialing out hate and protected speech are ridiculous the point i keep trying to make is that there s only two types speech and action i agree they are all speech and should be covered by the first amendment but if hate speech is so protected why are certain states trying to prosecute people for it there s only two answers and one of them is wrong NUMBER because hate speech is different and needs to have a different level of protection dictated by whoever s offended at the time NUMBER it s because it s not just speech but action a action who s consequences are foreseeable by any reasonable person hate speech is mislabeled it s really threat i think they let the mislabeling perpetuate as there s advantage in being able to counter threat with loss of liberty and money through civil and criminal lawsuits for people they don t like greg _________________________________________________________________ join the world s largest e mail service with msn hotmail URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER eugen leitl wrote looks useful hopefully they ll put up some more material soon URL i ll be sure to keep everyone posted on the next update b k delong bkdelong URL opencourseware NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cell ,0
better late than never i received a grant from project athena mit s original courseware effort and found at the end that they hadn t thought much about distribution of the courseware instead they had gotten wrapped up with x and various unix tools and other useful but not strictly educational efforts ken original message from b k delong mailto bkdelong pobox com sent tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to eugen leitl forkit subject re mit opencourseware at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER eugen leitl wrote looks useful hopefully they ll put up some more material soon URL i ll be sure to keep everyone posted on the next update b k delong bkdelong URL opencourseware NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cell ,0
on tuesday NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am mr fork wrote URL some classics from this period now in a new english translation the sagas of icelanders in trade paperback from duh viking in NUMBER remaindered at my local barnes ignoble the historical reference material is useful eirikur ,0
bitbitch URL wrote turns out the music industry settled quite a hefty settlement funnky i thought that it was minor in comparison the the gouging that occurs on a standard cd the wall street journal copyright c NUMBER dow jones company inc tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER five music concerns to pay NUMBER NUMBER million in price fixing case reuters news service the companies which didn t admit any wrongdoing will pay NUMBER NUMBER million in cash to compensate consumers who overpaid for cds between NUMBER and NUMBER the companies also agreed to distribute NUMBER NUMBER million worth of cds to public entities and nonprofit organizations throughout the country the cds will probably cost less than NUMBER NUMBER million to produce and distribute didn t admit any wrongdoing give me a break elias ,0
hello elias tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote e bitbitch URL wrote turns out the music industry settled quite a hefty settlement e funnky i thought that it was minor in comparison the the gouging that e occurs on a standard cd the wall street journal copyright c NUMBER dow jones company inc tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER five music concerns to pay NUMBER NUMBER million in price fixing case reuters news service the companies which didn t admit any wrongdoing will pay NUMBER NUMBER million in cash to compensate consumers who overpaid for cds between NUMBER and NUMBER the companies also agreed to distribute NUMBER NUMBER million worth of cds to public entities and nonprofit organizations throughout the country e the cds will probably cost less than NUMBER NUMBER million to produce and e distribute didn t admit any wrongdoing give me a break e elias toobad none of this will go back to any of the people who were forced to pay the rates best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mr fork wrote i realize now that after reviewing the past several years of work and career i have been in the wrong business the wrong business this is what i should have been doing URL a new manual has been published URL or the one i read http http search barnesandnoble com booksearch isbninquiry asp userid NUMBERtNUMBERjtegkqp isbn NUMBER and of course the open source versions URL URL r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 i think what you re looking at with the dual antenna mounts is a diversity antenna it won t work too well with one hooked up to the pringles can and the other hooked up to a regular rubber duck ian on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm eugen leitl wrote NUMBER reinforced concrete shields like the dickens wood lots less so NUMBER line of sight is best o really NUMBER if you want to boost range use directional aerials not omnis direct line of sight no trees no nothing can give you NUMBER km with well aligned directional aerials and say no sleet no locusts nor rain of blood if you want to fan out afterwards use a bridge of a directional coupling to an omni NUMBER NUMBERa should shield within building lots more than NUMBER NUMBERb ditto line of sight with lots of precipitation inbetween on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER damien morton wrote i just bought a linksys befwNUMBERvNUMBER access point router for NUMBER URL im doing some dev work on a symbol pocketpc device with built in NUMBER NUMBERb in this NUMBER sq ft pre war new york apartment it goes through NUMBER or NUMBER walls into the hallway and halfway down the first flight of stairs before it loses contact with the base station that s less than NUMBER ft inside the apartment it works just fine i just did some further testing through NUMBER brick walls the range is about NUMBER feet the signal also goes through the roof pretty much unimpeded that said the symbol device doesn t have an antenna to speak of and i havent done any tweaking to try to extend the range the linksys unit has two antenna mounts you could leave one as an omni antenna while hooking up a directional antenna to the other you might find that you have to use several access points and or repeaters to get the coverage you want ,0
uh wwii enigma was cracked at bletchly park based on the work of some poles who had been trying to figure out when they would be invaded entirely mechanical definitely not optical at all enigma was originally broken based on bad use practice if it had been employed more sensibly it would have been a lot harder see the code book by singh doubleday NUMBER or for that matter cryptonomicon by stephenson which is a fictionalization of the enigma cracking story and pretty accurate i eventually get born as a side effect of the battle of britain you see computing with interference patterns etc makes perfect sense but enigma was cracked by building mechanical systems that were essentially enigma machines and brute forcing eirikur ,0
that s what the manual said a diversity antenna why wouldn t it work well with one omni and one directional antena ianaee but doesn t that count as diversity original message from ian andrew bell mailto fork ianbell com sent tuesday NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to eugen leitl cc damien morton tomwhore slack net fork URL subject re wifi query i think what you re looking at with the dual antenna mounts is a diversity antenna it won t work too well with one hooked up to the pringles can and the other hooked up to a regular rubber duck ian on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm eugen leitl wrote NUMBER reinforced concrete shields like the dickens wood lots less so NUMBER line of sight is best o really NUMBER if you want to boost range use directional aerials not omnis direct line of sight no trees no nothing can give you NUMBER km with well aligned directional aerials and say no sleet no locusts nor rain of blood if you want to fan out afterwards use a bridge of a directional coupling to an omni NUMBER NUMBERa should shield within building lots more than NUMBER NUMBERb ditto line of sight with lots of precipitation inbetween on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER damien morton wrote i just bought a linksys befwNUMBERvNUMBER access point router for NUMBER URL im doing some dev work on a symbol pocketpc device with built in NUMBER NUMBERb in this NUMBER sq ft pre war new york apartment it goes through NUMBER or NUMBER walls into the hallway and halfway down the first flight of stairs before it loses contact with the base station that s less than NUMBER ft inside the apartment it works just fine i just did some further testing through NUMBER brick walls the range is about NUMBER feet the signal also goes through the roof pretty much unimpeded that said the symbol device doesn t have an antenna to speak of and i havent done any tweaking to try to extend the range the linksys unit has two antenna mounts you could leave one as an omni antenna while hooking up a directional antenna to the other you might find that you have to use several access points and or repeaters to get the coverage you want ,0
 http www quitpalestine org funny as all hell so a group of NUMBER quit queers undermining israeli terrorism marched into the local starbucks in berkeley of course they pick a safe city like berkeley but hey still funny and settle driving away straights and other prior inhabitants with supersoakers incredibly creative in my opinion not terribly violent i mean how much damage can you really do with a supersoaker but definintely a newscatcher its nice to see folks are finding some creative means to make a point even if you don t agree with it its a hard sell to say that this has been done before c mon i m just waiting for the uproar from the conservatives on the list best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
kind of interesting application of agent technology a mix of telnet and eliza wonder if knownow needs this as a partner URL activebuddy inc has developed patented technology for building and deploying interactive agents activebuddy s buddyscript technology powers business solutions that leverage the functionality convenience and appeal of instant messaging to provide an efficient and immediate means of communication with customers and constituents activebuddy technology is proven in the marketplace by the smash success of smarterchild activebuddy s showcase interactive agent launched in june NUMBER and visited by over NUMBER million consumers in its first year of life interactive agents allow your customers and constituents to receive information and services in a natural conversational interface software products buddyscriptt server an end to end software solution for deploying interactive agents buddyscript server provides every component required to operate an interactive agent including connectivity with the messaging network message routing data access message formatting user and session management and detailed tracking buddyscript server is offered in four configurations to meet your capacity needs its scaleable architecture supports virtually unlimited usage more here is a sample conversation on msn messenger with smarterchild mike says how are you smarterchild says great thx you mike says fine what is the weather like in seattle smarterchild says current weather conditions for seattle wa currently NUMBER f condition few clouds real feel NUMBER f dewpoint NUMBER humidity NUMBER visibility NUMBER mi wind n NUMBER mph next time just type weather seattle wa to get the forecast for seattle wa just type forecast ,0
mf here is a sample conversation on msn messenger with smarterchild mf mike says mf how are you mf smarterchild says mf great thx you oh freaking great in their adoption to make it more human they have to add in all the broken english and shortened aol style phrasings yay next thing you know the ai will be asking for asl evil ,0
 original message from joseph s barrera iii sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject dumb question x client behind a firewall let s say you re behind a firewall and have a nat address is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world and set your display in some way that you can create xterms on your own screen joe i m in no way a pro but perhaps you could set your firewall to accept connections from that linux box and then somehow set the linux box to transmit on a specific port then configure your router to forward all information from that port to your box but then again that pretty much defeats the entire point of a firewall p get more from the web free msn explorer download URL ,0
 this is something new or at least new to me politspam n using a spam engine for political purposes in this particular case to get back at the university of groningen the content suggests its more prank than vigilante activism in the old days we used to say someone left their terminal unguarded but what s interesting is that it s not trying to sell me anything or lead me to any for fee service it s just trying to spread a meme that rug is evil w wpin lslifriend writes w those who want to leave for the netherlands to carry on any w kind of education including for phd must be careful w especially the university of groningen rug should be w avoided this university was once a good one but now it has w lost its reputation studying is a good investment in time w and money so invest in the right place and time you are w warned w sincerely yours w hyohxsycjlakdbmhjpiouupngoqrm has anyone else started to receive either consumer vigilante or political activism messages via spam methods gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 how is this any different from attaching an infobot or a l i c e through licq s console hook people have been doing that for years and for over a decade in irc and the muds and the one thing i think we ve learned in all that time is that as a help desk it doesn t work people just don t like talking to robots especially when the robots once confused become imbeciles i think the humans may feel cheated deceived and tricked when they discover as with the seattle answer that they are talking to a machine there s no real intelligence behind that simulated friendly and therefore empty thx aiml is clever and cute but for practical applications as a first line of technical support it s been tried over and over and while i also think that it should work for the most part people won t use it what s worse as we make the nl processing more and more clever it only means it fails more dramatically alice doesn t just stumble a bit it starts to drool and alice is the best we have like a dalek all very impressive when things are going well but all it takes to betray the chicken brain inside is a towel over it s ill placed eye or a spin off the metal surface in all the prolog based nl database query systems of the NUMBER s and other later chatterbot helpdesk projects like shallow red even simpler tries like ask jeeves people very quickly know they re talking to a robot and the queries anneal to short truncated and terse database like verb noun or just noun keyword requests people are just too quick to adapt and too impatient to forgive a clunky interface and for now especially when the average computer user still can t type more than maybe NUMBER NUMBERwpm nl is a painfully slow clunky interface put it this way would you login wake the bot and ask for the seattle weather or would you do as we all do and just click the weather icon sitting there on your desktop just for fun here s an interesting conversation between shallow red alice and eliza as they decide to play the turing game URL gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 wow if they put a vrml front end on it it would be NUMBER worthless rather than just NUMBER irc bots scripts been there done that and much better if these folks actualy saw the xddc instafilesharing scripts must NUMBER year olds hang off of mirc they might get a clue then again they might already have teh clue that sometimes you can packege the obvious and sell it to the clueless ,0
 original message from gary lawrence murphy garym canada com w wpin lslifriend writes w those who want to leave for the netherlands to carry on any w kind of education including for phd must be careful w especially the university of groningen rug should be w avoided this university was once a good one but now it has w lost its reputation studying is a good investment in time w and money so invest in the right place and time you are w warned dear gawd lost its reputation how horrible for those northern europeans what could possibly be worse than that ,0
 let me put it another way f mike says how are you f smarterchild says great thx you f mike says fine what is the weather like in seattle f smarterchild says current weather conditions for seattle wa out of NUMBER million alledged visitors this is the best example gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 begin forwarded text date wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from john s denker jsd monmouth com subject re optical analog computing sender jsd no domain spam to r a hettinga rah shipwright com cc digital bearer settlement list dbs philodox com cryptography URL r a hettinga wrote the first computer to crack enigma was optical the first synthetic aperture radar processor was optical but all these early successes were classified NUMBER to NUMBER projects and i probably know of less than half do these claims compute is this really a secret history or does this mean holography of am i just completely out of the loop NUMBER gimme a break this is remarkable for its lack of newsworthiness NUMBER bletchley park used optical sensors which were and still are the best way to read paper tape at high speed you can read about it in the standard accounts e g URL NUMBER for decades before that codebreakers were using optical computing in the form of superposed masks to find patterns you can read about it in kahn NUMBER people have been doing opto electronic computing for decades there s a lot more to it than just holography i get NUMBER NUMBER hits from URL optical info is a complex valued wave spatial frequency amplitude and phase it isn t right to make it sound like three numbers frequency amplitude and phase actually there are innumerable frequencies each of which has its own amplitude and phase lenses refractions and interference are the computational operators add copy multiply fft correlation convolution of NUMBERd and NUMBERd arrays and of course massively parallel by default and of course allows free space interconnects some things that are hard with wires are easy with light waves but most things that are easy with wires are hard with light waves here s a commercialized effort from israel a space integrating vector matric multiplier a b c laser NUMBER gate modulator spread over NUMBERd NUMBER teraflop equivalent for one multiply per nanosecond people were doing smaller versions of that in the NUMBERs unclassified example acousto optic spectrometer NUMBER gflops equivalent for NUMBER watts doing continuous ffts launched in NUMBER on a NUMBER year mission submillimeter wave observatory not ffts fts fourier transforms all you need for taking a d NUMBER fourier transform is a lens it s undergrad physics lab stuff i get NUMBER NUMBER hits from URL of course the rest of the talk is about the promise of moving from optoelectronic to all optical processors on all optical nets with optical encryption so on all optical no optoelectronics anywhere that s medicinal grade pure snake oil usp photons are well known for not interacting with each other it s hard to do computing without interactions end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 original message from gary lawrence murphy garym canada com and the one thing i think we ve learned in all that time is that as a help desk it doesn t work i m not sure they are doing strictly help desk stuff but the whole who in their right mind would use that it doesn t have all these cool features isn t always a guarantee of failure maybe there is a strength in this approach agents and or im as ui than can find a nich application space in all the prolog based nl database query systems of the NUMBER s and other later chatterbot helpdesk projects like shallow red even simpler tries like ask jeeves people very quickly know they re talking to a robot and the queries anneal to short truncated and terse database like verb noun or just noun keyword requests kind of like a web query and with google someone else can turn them into a link so you don t even have to type anything people are just too quick to adapt and too impatient to forgive a clunky interface and for now especially when the average computer user still can t type more than maybe NUMBER NUMBERwpm nl is a painfully slow clunky interface yes true true put it this way would you login wake the bot and ask for the seattle weather or would you do as we all do and just click the weather icon sitting there on your desktop what about a situation where you don t directly ask talk to the bot but they listen in and advise correct interject etc example two people discussing trips etc may trigger a weather bot to mention what the forecast says without directly being asked ,0
NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBERmbps per channel over three channels in the NUMBER NUMBERghz range also shared with microwaves and cordless phones at rages up to NUMBER ft NUMBER NUMBERa runs on NUMBER channels in the NUMBERghz range and up to around five times more bandwidth NUMBERmbps or so but has less range NUMBER NUMBER ft NUMBER NUMBERa also adds forward error correction into the scheme to allow for more reliable data transmission which to use really depends on what you re doing with it streaming video almost necessitates NUMBER NUMBERa while streaming just audio can be comfortably done with NUMBER NUMBERb provided that there isn t much interference or too many clients prices don t know haven t done the research for covering a large area NUMBER NUMBERa will be more expensive due to the need for more aps if you want to reach the local coffee shop however you will need a directional antenna either way check out URL they ve got some good articles on NUMBER NUMBER also some of the best info on NUMBER NUMBER security i ve seen can be found at URL give me bandwidth or give me death elias tom wrote i have one very pressing question wifi ranges do i got for NUMBER NUMBERb stuff or do i gold out for NUMBER NUMBERa is the price point break goign to warrant the differnce ,0
 begin forwarded text delivered to fork URL to fork URL subject re optical analog computing from dave long dl silcom com sender fork admin URL date wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the first computer to crack enigma was optical computing with interference patterns etc makes perfect sense but enigma was cracked by building mechanical systems that were essentially enigma machines and brute forcing look for zygalski sheets by koerner s narrative it wound up being a hybrid affair bletchley had mock enigmas which cycled through the enigma s NUMBERk starting positions in a quarter of an hour but the germans started using a plugboard which then had NUMBER NUMBERxNUMBER NUMBER possibilities the poles noticed that there were some patterns in the messages which were only possible via certain plugboard settings and so when we have collected several such cards corresponding to different initial signals we place them in a pile so that the squares corresponding to the same daily settings are aligned and shine a light beneath the pile only those squares which let the light through will correspond to possible daily settings so the brute force hardware allowed precalculation of optical computing devices which then narrowed down the possibilities enough for brute force to again be used for daily decodes until on NUMBER may the germans invaded france and on the same day in accordance with the best cryptographic principles they changed their enigma procedures in such a way that the NUMBER zygalski sheets each with their carefully drilled NUMBER or so holes became just so much waste cardboard dave the first synthetic aperture radar processor was optical this is also easy to believe given dr elachi s description of the NUMBER shuttle imaging radar the received signal is recorded on an optical film which is retrieved after landing the film is then processed in an optical correlator to generate the final image which makes sense as one wishes to shift each component of the return in proportion to its frequency for which one presumably needs a glorified prism alternatively the signal can be digitized and then recorded on board or transmitted to the ground via a digital data link this was the case with the sensor flown in NUMBER koerner _the pleasures of counting_ in which various aspects of the enigma decoding cover four chapters of which i quote from two sections of one NUMBER NUMBER beautiful polish females and NUMBER NUMBER passing the torch churchill s romantic soul loved the excitement and secrecy surrounding bletchley he relished the way that t he old procedures like the setting up of agents the suborning of informants the sending of messages written in invisible ink the masquerading the dressing up the secret transmitters and the examining of the contents of waste paper baskets all turned out to be largely cover for this other source as one might keep some old established business in rare books going in order to be able under cover of it to do a thriving trade in pornography and erotica looking at the disparate unkempt and definitely unmilitary crew formed by his top code breakers he is said to have added to his head of intelligence i know i told you to leave no stone unturned to find the necessary staff but i did not mean you to take me so literally end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 original message from gary lawrence murphy garym canada com f what about a situation where you don t directly ask talk to the f bot but they listen in and advise correct interject etc do you do that do you hear two people at the next table say i m going to seattle tomorrow and you just have to lean over and interject compulsively to tell them what you know about seattle s weather have you ever worked with kragen ,0
 original message from mr fork fork_list hotmail com original message from gary lawrence murphy garym canada com f what about a situation where you don t directly ask talk to the f bot but they listen in and advise correct interject etc do you do that do you hear two people at the next table say i m going to seattle tomorrow and you just have to lean over and interject compulsively to tell them what you know about seattle s weather joke oh please quit with all that stopenergy tm joke ,0
 begin forwarded text date thu NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to john s denker jsd monmouth com from greg rose ggr URL subject re optical analog computing cc r a hettinga rah shipwright com digital bearer settlement list dbs philodox com cryptography URL at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER john s denker wrote r a hettinga wrote the first computer to crack enigma was optical NUMBER bletchley park used optical sensors which were and still are the best way to read paper tape at high speed you can read about it in the standard accounts e g URL but colossus was not for enigma the bombes used for enigma were electro mechanical i m not aware of any application of optical techniques to enigma unless they were done in the us and are still classified and clearly the first bulk breaks of enigma were done by the bombes so i guess it depends whether you count bombes as computers or not whether this statement has any credibility at all greg williams zenon NUMBER campaign page URL greg rose internet ggr URL qualcomm australia voice NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER level NUMBER NUMBER victoria road URL gladesville nsw NUMBER NUMBERb ecNUMBERf NUMBERcNUMBER cNUMBER dNUMBERf eNUMBER eNUMBERbf cdNUMBERf NUMBER aNUMBERc end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 elias sinderson wrote NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBERmbps per channel over three channels in the NUMBER NUMBERghz range also shared with microwaves and cordless phones microwaves cordless phones and video based baby monitors greg gregory alan bolcer cto work NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gbolcer at URL URL endeavors technology inc cell NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER gregory alan bolcer wrote elias sinderson wrote NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBERmbps per channel over three channels in the NUMBER NUMBERghz range also shared with microwaves and cordless phones microwaves cordless phones and video based baby monitors well i dont have to worry about microwavers in the house ours died a week or so ago and due to doing some research we will nto be getting anysuch device in the near or far future i mean even if one half of the crap it is reported to do is true it s just not worth it for a quick cup or warm chai which brings me to the fact that finding a good convection only not combo with a microwaver oven of any good size is dang near impossible unless you go up to the bizness sizes thankfully there is dehlongi of which costco has thru thier online store now of course the question is do we get it delivered to the old house or the new one yep we got our offer approved and are in the short run down to a long mortage we close on oct NUMBER though the realestate agent says t happens like that a lot i still find it incrediably jolting to have found a house inthe hood i want with the space dawn wants on sunday and we are signing papers on tuesday night with a close at the end of the month which of course means wifi land for wsmf so far i like the linksys dsl cable router all in one wifi ap the dlink has the funky NUMBERmb stuff if you use all thier stuff across the net and the way things go i cant say thats gonna happen for sure pluse the linksys stuff is all over the mass market sotres so i cna walk home with parts at any time the fun now comes with a realization that with attbi cable as my main hose tot he net offering up bwf might be a tad problematic so i am thinking of ways around through under that the setup of the particualrs are far form set in stone any ideas would be welcome also any portlanders party time tom ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER r a hettinga wrote begin forwarded text status ro delivered to fork URL sigh shoot me now my apologies cheers rah r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 over on arstechnica www arstechnica com i saw mention of a wired article that goes into the many wonderfull ways apple is showing its love and respect for its users URL there is a good rundown of all the whys and whatfores over at URL true to form industrious third party developers saw that they could gain a competitive advantage by supporting this more capable user interface in their applications apple s private menu extras apis were reverse engineered and leveraged to great effect the architecture was so popular that an application for managing predefined sets of menu extras third party or otherwise was in development all of that changed with the release of jaguar but not because the private apis had changed if they had third party developers would have updated their applications to work with the new apis as they have resigned themselves to doing by choosing to use private apis in the first place but what actually happened in jaguar was that apple added code to forcibly exclude all non apple menu extras other parts of the api did not change but when a menu extra is loaded it is compared to a hard coded list of known menu extras from apple if the menu extra is not on that list it is not allowed to load it s easy to laugh at steve ballmer s sweat soaked gyrations as he chants developers developers developers but microsoft clearly understands something that apple is still struggling with it is in a platform vendor s best interest to encourage development for its platform in apple s case this doesn t mean that they have to bend over backwards to make every single system service and ui element pluggable via public apis that s clearly a lot of work and not something that needs to be the number one priority for an os in its infancy and in the meantime if third party developers want to sell into a market that requires the desired functionality to be added in unsupported ways then they must be prepared for the maintenance consequences of their decisions but for apple to go out of its way to actually expend developer effort to stop these third party developers while still failing to provide a supported alternative is incredibly foolish ,0
this article from URL has been sent to you by khare URL excellent evidence of the herd just imagine if the anonymous noise injected into our world newsphere noosphere was say a fraudulent story that a stock accounting scandal had been accused and the evildoers were shorting oh wait that happened an unemployed orange county student took down emulex enjoy rohit khare URL stop those presses blonds it seems will survive after all october NUMBER NUMBER by lawrence k altman apparently it fell into the category too good to check last friday several british newspapers reported that the world health organization had found in a study that blonds would become extinct within NUMBER years because blondness was caused by a recessive gene that was dying out the reports were repeated on friday by anchors for the abc news program good morning america and on saturday by cnn there was only one problem the health organization said in a statement yesterday that it never reported that blonds would become extinct and it had never done a study on the subject w h o has no knowledge of how these news reports originated said the organization an agency of the united nations based in geneva but would like to stress that we have no opinion of the future existence of blonds all the news reports in britain and the united states cited a study from the world health organization a blonde shell study as the daily star of london put it but none reported any scientific details from the study or the names of the scientists who conducted it on good morning america charles gibson began a conversation with his co anchor diane sawyer by saying there s a study from the world health organization this is for real that blonds are an endangered species women and men with blond hair eyebrows and blue eyes natural blonds they say will vanish from the face of the earth within NUMBER years because it is not as strong a gene as brunets ms sawyer said she was somewhat of a natural blonde jeffrey schneider a spokesman for abc news said the anchors got the information from an abc producer in london who said he had read it in a british newspaper in london the sun and the express both reported that unnamed scientists said blonds would survive longest in scandinavia where they are most concentrated and expected the last true blond to hail from finland the british accounts were replete with the views of bleached blonds who said hairdressers would never allow blondness to become extinct and doctors who said that rare genes would pop up to keep natural blonds from becoming an endangered species journalists in london said last night that the source of the reports was probably one of several european news agencies that are used by the british press but it remained unclear which one tim hall a night news editor at the daily mail said the report was probably distributed by the press association britain s domestic news agency several papers picked it up he said but charlotte gapper night editor at the press association said that although it had considered running the report on sept NUMBER it had decided not to after talking to the world health organization we didn t do that story because we made an inquiry to the world health organization first she said they told us that report was two years old and had been covered at the time they said it had been picked up again that day by a german news agency she added that she did not know which agency the organization was referring to dr ray white a geneticist at the university of california at san francisco said that the disappearance of a gene for blond hair sounds patently incorrect URL how to advertise for information on advertising in e mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with the new york times on the web please contact onlinesales URL or visit our online media kit at URL for general information about URL write to help URL copyright NUMBER the new york times company ,0
 e eirikur hallgrimsson eh mad scientist com writes e if my environment cannot be made beautiful in e some sense i cannot live the first question i ask myself when something doesn t seem to be beautiful is why do i think it s not beautiful and very shortly you discover that there is no reason john cage gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 well it looks pretty much NUMBER sure that we will be moving in on nov NUMBER to the new house i think the only thing that stops us now are acts of dieties and total economic collapse so no one mention the dow for the next few weeks in preperation we drove to best buy tonight and picked up the test core for the wifi net i got a linksys befwNUMBERsNUMBER NUMBER for the router hub wireless ap firewall etc and a linksys wifi pcmcia card for the laptop i made one false move so it took about NUMBER mins all told to set up the card the router and the other NUMBER machines in the house on the wire ether hub all vfery neat very easy and very very cool set up via the webinterface i have to dig into the firewall nat routing features some more i have been reading up the wifi security blackpaper on ars technica but all in all a smooth move now the place im at now the house soon to be the ex house has lots of funky things going on in the walls and in the area we are in essentialy a gravel pit recption of all types suck and transmisions get goofy inside the pit that being said with NUMBER walls and NUMBER feet between the ap and the pcmica card no external antena on it im still getting NUMBERmbs and at least NUMBER goodness some cool things about the new house its a NUMBER job so no metal works inthe walls to speak of mostly wood and plaster we dont have a microwave and our cordless phines are on NUMBERmhz yea so i can use my bear cat to listen in on some calls with kids in the house is that such a bad thing ben or heather if you read this years from now well by then i hope youare better at countermoeasures ok enough testing for tonight i gota say being able to do this in bed by vncing via wifi to my desktop is a blast oh no wifes pillow is heading this way duckkkkk URL ,0
on wednesday NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm tom wrote but what actually happened in jaguar was that apple added code to exclude all non apple menu extras too too too true just you try to muck with job s blessed aqua interface or remove the fscking dock osx is such a step down from classic with kaleidoscope skinning the entire ui as an artist i resent it deeply this is not in praise of classic if my environment cannot be made beautiful in some sense i cannot live eirikur ,0
 begin forwarded text user agent microsoft entourage NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER date thu NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER subject the NUMBERrd annual consult hyperion digital identity forum from david g w birch dgw lists birches org to bob hettinga rah shipwright com cc digital bearer settlement list dbs philodox com dear all see URL for more details speakers include microsoft and liberty alliance uk central and local government law enforcement financial services egg and rbs natwest ec research centre a psychologist and others look forward to seeing you there regards dave birch david birch director consult hyperion tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail dave URL web URL see you at the NUMBERnd annual digital transactions forum in singapore october NUMBERth NUMBERth NUMBER see URL end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gary lawrence murphy wrote the first question i ask myself when something doesn t seem to be beautiful is why do i think it s not beautiful and very shortly you discover that there is no reason john cage when i m working on a problem i never think about beauty i think only how to solve the problem but when i have finished if the solution is not beautiful i know it is wrong r buckminster fuller simplicity is the highest goal achievable when you have overcome all difficulties frederic chopin externalities are the last refuge of the dirigistes friedrich hayek r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa the stoical scheme of supplying our wants by lopping off our desires is like cutting off our feet when we want shoes jonathan swift ,0
 r r a hettinga rah shipwright com writes r when i m working on a problem i never think about beauty i r think only how to solve the problem but when i have finished r if the solution is not beautiful i know it is wrong r r buckminster fuller it was only after i d completed the geodesic dome that i noticed it was beautiful r buckminster fuller gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
people with too much time on their hands look at this first NUMBERmeg so takes a loong time URL and then look at this reduction URL ken p ken coar sanagendamgagwedweinini URL author developer opinionist URL millennium hand and shrimp ,0
 actually this is output from an old java program called jitter it s very useful for those of us with digital cameras who end up taking NUMBER pictures a day while on vacation gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 egad you mean there s two of them i knew there was a reason my jobs board had jumped to the top of my traffic list gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
 begin forwarded text to rah URL from hacker URL date thu NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt subject re the NUMBERrd annual consult hyperion digital identity forum the guy messed up his own url it should be URL which redirects to URL r a hettinga wrote dear all see URL for more details speakers include microsoft and liberty alliance uk central and local government law enforcement financial services egg and rbs natwest ec research centre a psychologist and others look forward to seeing you there regards dave birch david birch director consult hyperion tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail dave URL web a href URL URL a see you at the NUMBERnd annual digital transactions forum in singapore october NUMBERth NUMBERth NUMBER see a href URL URL a end forwarded text r a hettinga lt mailto rah ibuc com gt the internet bearer underwriting corporation lt a href URL URL a NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa quot however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience quot edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire for help on using this list especially unsubscribing send a message to quot dcsb request reservoir com quot with one line of text quot help quot end forwarded text r a hettinga mailto rah ibuc com the internet bearer underwriting corporation URL NUMBER farquhar street boston ma NUMBER usa however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity predicting the end of the world has not been found agreeable to experience edward gibbon decline and fall of the roman empire ,0
 s stephen d williams sdw lig net writes s the purpose of our lives is to be free of all addictive traps s and thus become one with the ocean of living love one choice is a psychosis two a neurosis ven joan shikai woodward northern mountain order of the white wind zen community just a thought oh yes the bits women in zen URL gary lawrence murphy garym URL teledynamics communications blog URL biz URL computers are useless they can only give you answers picasso ,0
normally i disdain any kind of mysticism even when it is associated with fairly good ideas just a big turnoff a good example would be the difference between yoga tm and the more scientifically pure but related relaxation techniques including betagenics hypnosis auto hypnosis etc this was one of the many topics i obsessively absorbed as a teenager or tai chi etc vs tai bo g force dyno staff i have to say however that having found this while looking for something completely unrelated it has some cute truisms i particularly like their addiction to non addiction additionally the mindprod treehugger site has some interesting quotes etc to my internal ear nearly all of these NUMBER s based new age vernacular seem to assume that you are a simple child of the NUMBER s who needs some religion like couching of ideas to relate and internalize very irritating but taken in small doses it s interesting to compare and contrast with our my modern mental models i found that a few of the principles could be used to explain and justify us un foreign policy and actions URL URL URL apologies for the embedded html we create the world we live in a loving person lives in a loving world a hostile person lives in a hostile world everyone you meet is your mirror you make yourself and others suffer just as much when you take offence as when you give offence to be upset over what you don t have is to waste what you do have the past is dead the future is imaginary happiness can only be in the eternal now moment how soon will you realize that the only thing you don t have is the direct experience that there s nothing you need that you don t have love a person because he or she is there this is the only reason happiness happens when your consciousness is not dominated by addictions and demands and you experience life as a parade of preferences the purpose of our lives is to be free of all addictive traps and thus become one with the ocean of living love sdw sdw URL URL stephen d williams NUMBER wayside cir ashburn va NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERw NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERfax decNUMBER ,0
draw the pain ken never wrote about this method but he often demonstrated it in workshops let us say you have a physical pain somewhere in your body you draw the pain in the air with your finger about NUMBER cm NUMBER foot high take about NUMBER seconds to trace around the perimeter of the pain carefully listening to the pain to find the precise boundary between where it hurts and where it does not repeat you will find that after about NUMBER minutes of this the pain will shift shrink or disappear a variant of this is to imagine making a NUMBERd model the pain in coloured clay works there s this coworker a real pain in my ass i used my middle finger to trace his outline for about NUMBER seconds i listened to him found the boundary and repeated the motion he left my office original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of stephen d williams sent thursday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject living love another legacy of the NUMBER s normally i disdain any kind of mysticism even when it is associated with fairly good ideas just a big turnoff a good example would be the difference between yoga tm and the more scientifically pure but related relaxation techniques including betagenics hypnosis auto hypnosis etc this was one of the many topics i obsessively absorbed as a teenager or tai chi etc vs tai bo g force dyno staff i have to say however that having found this while looking for something completely unrelated it has some cute truisms i particularly like their addiction to non addiction additionally the mindprod treehugger site has some interesting quotes etc to my internal ear nearly all of these NUMBER s based new age vernacular seem to assume that you are a simple child of the NUMBER s who needs some religion like couching of ideas to relate and internalize very irritating but taken in small doses it s interesting to compare and contrast with our my modern mental models i found that a few of the principles could be used to explain and justify us un foreign policy and actions URL URL URL apologies for the embedded html we create the world we live in a loving person lives in a loving world a hostile person lives in a hostile world everyone you meet is your mirror you make yourself and others suffer just as much when you take offence as when you give offence to be upset over what you don t have is to waste what you do have the past is dead the future is imaginary happiness can only be in the eternal now moment how soon will you realize that the only thing you don t have is the direct experience that there s nothing you need that you don t have love a person because he or she is there this is the only reason happiness happens when your consciousness is not dominated by addictions and demands and you experience life as a parade of preferences the purpose of our lives is to be free of all addictive traps and thus become one with the ocean of living love sdw sdw URL URL stephen d williams NUMBER wayside cir ashburn va NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERw NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERfax decNUMBER ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm mr fork fork_list hotmail com wrote what about a situation where you don t directly ask talk to the bot but they listen in and advise correct interject etc example two people discussing trips etc may trigger a weather bot to mention what the forecast says without directly being asked my guess is it s more insidious than that it s going to be activespam oh you re going to seattle i can get you airline tickets for less yuck peregrine peh ruh grun or peh ruh green adjective having a tendency to wander ,0
hello fork URL this kid has way way too much time on his hands best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
not exactly new bits but i enjoyed seeing the economist pick up on the similarity between computer and social networks URL _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL ,0
i actually thought of this kind of active chat at aol in NUMBER i think bringing up ads based on what was being discussed and other features for a while the vp of dev now still cto i think was really hot on the idea and they discussed patenting it then they lost interest probably a good thing sdw lorin rivers wrote on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm mr fork fork_list hotmail com wrote what about a situation where you don t directly ask talk to the bot but they listen in and advise correct interject etc example two people discussing trips etc may trigger a weather bot to mention what the forecast says without directly being asked my guess is it s more insidious than that it s going to be activespam oh you re going to seattle i can get you airline tickets for less yuck ,0
greetings carey wants you to know about a story on URL personal message ah the ig nobels always worth a read if only they had a cat mood decipherer __ navel gazing wins an ig nobel by jay lindsay br boston october NUMBER NUMBER url URL ,0
 nor what color your passport more american exceptionalism URL the united states is the only country in the world to tax its citizens on a worldwide basis irrespective of whether they spend time in the country or whether they have assets there said philip marcovici a zurich based lawyer with international law firm baker and mackenzie and perhaps even irrespective of their current citizenship under current expatriation law there are wealth thresholds based on net worth which lead to a presumption that a person giving up u s citizenship is doing so for tax reasons individuals who have given up their citizenship and who have earned NUMBER NUMBER in any one of the NUMBER years before expatriation or who have a net worth exceeding NUMBER NUMBER would automatically be deemed a so called taxpatriate those persons would be subject to ordinary income tax on u s source income for NUMBER years they would also be subject to u s estate and gift tax during the NUMBER year period i suppose it could be much worse there could be some twee affinity program for us citizenship and a bank of phone people who only get paid well if they manage to keep one from cancelling membership dave last month congress proposed a new exit tax on all citizens who give up their u s status if the proposal becomes law individuals will be taxed as if they had either sold everything or died this would give rise to immediate exposure to capital gains tax to be fair would this mean that they d also immediately pay out the difference for anyone whose tax basis was greater than current estate value URL australian cities overall scored particularly highly in the economist intelligence unit survey of desirability for expats with all five the country s urban centres surveyed ranked near the top of the table europe was also well represented among the top NUMBER places the top us city honolulu ranked NUMBERst with boston at NUMBERth the highest ranked city on the us mainland canada in contrast sneaked three cities into the top ten the uk cities of london NUMBERth and manchester NUMBERth gained only a mid table rating with port moresby in papua new guinea bottom of the list ,0
 don t know much about eroom but there is the magic phrase collaborate in real time groove really has people running scared wonder if any users actually benefit from collaborating in real time URL content management vendor documentum said late thursday it plans to acquire privately held e room technologies in a deal worth about NUMBER million documentum will issue approximately NUMBER NUMBER million shares of its common stock and pay about NUMBER NUMBER million in cash for all of the outstanding shares of eroom documentum makes a platform for enterprise wide content management eroom makes tools for enterprise collaboration its customers include airbus bausch lomb ford motor co and sony documentum announced plans this summer to deliver a new collaboration edition of its content management suite eroom was already integrating its tools to the documentum platform making an acquisition an easy target according to documentum president and ceo dave dewalt with the upcoming joint product customers will be able to collaborate in real time via virtual workspaces sharing schedules resources and even jointly creating content content creation and management has always been a collaborative task but workflow has usually been delivered via a web browser interface or even simple e mail and rarely in real time for now documentum will sell the eroom platform and its own content management system through combined sales channels further integration is planned down the line the companies said ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am someone e said the guy messed up his own url it should be URL which redirects to URL i didn t mess it up i f cked it up by not paying attention to a copy and paste from something else next time i really will leave it to the pr guys best regards dave birch _______________________________________________ irregulars mailing list irregulars URL URL ,0
 groove really has people running scared oh shit here comes that groove thingy run for your life original message from mr fork fork_list hotmail com to fork spamassassin taint org sent friday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject documentum acquires e room melding content collaboration don t know much about eroom but there is the magic phrase collaborate in real time groove really has people running scared wonder if any users actually benefit from collaborating in real time URL content management vendor documentum said late thursday it plans to acquire privately held e room technologies in a deal worth about NUMBER million documentum will issue approximately NUMBER NUMBER million shares of its common stock and pay about NUMBER NUMBER million in cash for all of the outstanding shares of eroom documentum makes a platform for enterprise wide content management eroom makes tools for enterprise collaboration its customers include airbus bausch lomb ford motor co and sony documentum announced plans this summer to deliver a new collaboration edition of its content management suite eroom was already integrating its tools to the documentum platform making an acquisition an easy target according to documentum president and ceo dave dewalt with the upcoming joint product customers will be able to collaborate in real time via virtual workspaces sharing schedules resources and even jointly creating content content creation and management has always been a collaborative task but workflow has usually been delivered via a web browser interface or even simple e mail and rarely in real time for now documentum will sell the eroom platform and its own content management system through combined sales channels further integration is planned down the line the companies said ,0
does anyone know what happened to vcard support in netscape NUMBER NUMBER mozilla NUMBER NUMBER not there yet in mozilla and therefore not in the new mail engine i presume netscape messenger mozilla have ldap ldif import export but i can t find vcard or a reference to it anywhere i like the netscape mozilla email client i avoid lookout for at least two reasons windows only my main environment is linux with NUMBER on windows and security issues now that ldap and the related dsml and dns srv record methods are becoming more popular is there a decline of vcard is there a standard emerging to deal with the mismatch in naming between the two i ve brushed with directories in the past but i m getting in deep along with more pki oriented focus any wisdom would be appreciated in particular i m going to start integrating smart cards into my linux and winNUMBER systems and integrating them with netscape messenger mozilla and outlook thanks sdw ,0
 british scientists were honoured for research that found ostriches became more amorous with each other when a human was around in fact ostriches eventually started putting the moves on humans this is true of manatees also you don t want to know original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of carey sent friday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject headline navel gazing wins an ig nobel greetings carey wants you to know about a story on URL personal message ah the ig nobels always worth a read if only they had a cat mood decipherer __ navel gazing wins an ig nobel by jay lindsay br boston october NUMBER NUMBER url URL ,0
geege schuman wrote british scientists were honoured for research that found ostriches became more amorous with each other when a human was around in fact ostriches eventually started putting the moves on humans this is true of manatees also you don t want to know so how much of it is due to jumping the inter species boundary for status i e i can fuck any of several reasonable candidates from my own species or i can be ambitious and go after the authority figure in the room the alternative hypothesis is that its due to novelty and then of course there s the they ll fuck anything given appropriate conditions hmmm is this a potential intelligence test seeing as the last is a particularily human response owen ,0
the structure of the internet has never been about where the ditches and ruts are dug although the world needs ditch diggers too it s a simple inductive concept you are you and see the world as such you plus NUMBER degree of separation is a new you all this stuff about scale free internets viruses sex and money is silly scale free statistically indistinguishable models really means internet scale as rediscovered by social networks people research has shown that the network of human sexual partners seems to be scale free too i tend to prefer the harvard business review to the economist as they tend to spend less time writing about who s sleeping with whom and come up with real statistical models greg lies damn lies and statistics russell turpin wrote not exactly new bits but i enjoyed seeing the economist pick up on the similarity between computer and social networks URL _________________________________________________________________ chat with friends online try msn messenger URL gregory alan bolcer cto work NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gbolcer at URL URL endeavors technology inc cell NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
gary lawrence murphy wrote r buckminster fuller it was only after i d completed the geodesic dome that i noticed it was beautiful r buckminster fuller i had cited the information theoretic concept of elegance in my dissertation did a google to find the reference and instead found a really great tech report for uot knoxville by bruce maclennan he cites efficiency economy and elegance but i think he s wrong the middle e should be effectiveness otherwise kudos efficiency is the relation of output to input effectiveness is the total output in information theory something is both elegant and efficient if no smaller or less costly something can product the same output in the same amount of time greg NUMBER URL who cares about elegance the role of aesthetics in programming language design technical report ut cs NUMBER NUMBER bruce j maclennan computer science department university of tennessee knoxville maclennan URL abstract the crucial role played by aesthetics in programming language design and the importance of elegance in programming languages are defended on the basis of analogies with structural engineering as presented in billington s the tower and the bridge this report may be used for any nonprofit purpose provided that its source is acknowledged it will be adapted for inclusion in the third edition of my principles of programming languages NUMBER the value of analogies NUMBER efficiency seeks to minimize resources used NUMBER economy seeks to maximize benefit versus cost NUMBER elegance symbolizes good design NUMBER for the designer NUMBER for the user NUMBER the programming language as work environment NUMBER acquiring a sense of elegance NUMBER references the value of analogies programming language design is a comparatively new activity it has existed for less than half a century so it is often worthwhile to look to older design disciplines to understand better this new activity thus my book principles of programming languages design evaluation and implementation grew out of a study of teaching methods in architecture primarily but also of pedagogy in other disciplines such as aircraft design perhaps you have also seen analogies drawn between programming languages and cars fortran model t c dune buggy etc these analogies can be very informative and can serve as intuition pumps to enhance our creativity but they cannot be used uncritically because they are in the end just analogies ultimately our design decisions must be based on more than analogies since analogies can be misleading as well as informative in this essay i ll address the role of aesthetics in programming language design but i will base my remarks on a book about structural engineering the tower and the bridge by david p billington although there are many differences between bridges and programming languages we will find that many ideas and insights transfer rather directly according to billington there are three values common to many technological activities which we can call the three e s efficiency economy and elegance these values correspond to three dimensions of technology which billington calls the scientific social and symbolic dimensions the three s s we will consider each in turn efficiency seeks to minimize resources used in structural engineering efficiency deals with the amount of material used the basic criterion is safety and the issues are scientific strength of materials disposition of forces etc similarly in programming language design efficiency is a scientific question dealing with the use of resources there are many examples where efficiency considerations influenced programming language design some are reviewed in my principles of programming languages in the early days the resources to be minimized were often runtime memory usage and processing time although compile time resource utilization was also relevant in other cases the resource economized was programmer typing time and there are well known cases in which this compromised safety e g fortran s implicit declarations there are also many well known cases in which security i e safety was sacrificed for the sake of efficiency by neglecting runtime error checking e g array bounds checking efficiency issues often can be quantified in terms of computer memory or time but we must be careful that we are not comparing apples and oranges compile time is not interchangeable run time and neither one is the same as programmer time similarly computer memory cannot be traded off against computer time unless both are reduced to a common denominator such as money but this brings in economic considerations to which we now turn economy seeks to maximize benefit versus cost whereas efficiency is a scientific issue economy is a social issue in structural engineering economy seeks to maximize social benefit compared to its cost this is especially appropriate since structures like bridges are usually built at public expense for the benefit of the public in programming language design the public that must be satisfied is the programming community that will use the language and the institutions for which these programmers work economic tradeoffs are hard to make because economic values change and are difficult to predict for example the shift from first to second generation programming languages was largely a result of a decrease in the cost of computer time compared to programmer time the shift from the second to the third generation involved the increasing cost of residual bugs in programs and the fourth generation reflected the increasing cost of program maintenance compared to program development other social factors involved in the success or failure of a programming language include whether major manufacturers support the language whether prestigious universities teach it whether it is approved in some way by influential organizations such as the us department of defense whether it has been standardized whether it comes to be perceived as a real language used by real programmers or as a toy language used by novices or dilettantes and so forth as can be seen from the historical remarks in my principles social factors are frequently more important than scientific factors in determining the success or failure of a programming language often economic issues can be quantified in terms of money but the monetary values of costs and benefits are often unstable and unpredictable because they depend on changing market forces also many social issues from dissatisfaction with poorly designed software to human misery resulting from system failures are inaccurately represented by the single dimension of monetary cost all kinds of cost and benefit must be considered in seeking an economical design elegance symbolizes good design elegance who cares about elegance snorts the hard nosed engineer but billington shows clearly the critical role of elegance in hard nosed engineering for the designer it is well known that feature interaction poses a serious problem for language designers because of the difficulty of analyzing all the possible interactions of features in a language see my principles for examples structural engineers face similar problems of analytic complexity but billington observes that the best designers don t make extensive use of computer models and calculation one reason is that mathematical analysis is always incomplete the engineer must make a decision about which variables are significant and which are not and an analysis may lead to incorrect conclusions if this decision is not made well also equations are often simplified e g made linear to make their analysis feasible and this is another potential source of error because of these limitations engineers that depend on mathematical analysis may overdesign a structure to compensate for unforeseen effects left out of the analysis thus the price of safety is additional material and increased cost i e decreased efficiency and economy similarly in programming language design the limitations of the analytic approach often force us to make a choice between an under engineered design in which we run the risk of unanticipated interactions and an over engineered design in which we have confidence but which is inefficient or uneconomical many people have seen the famous film of the collapse in NUMBER of the four month old tacoma narrows bridge it vibrated itself to pieces in a storm because aerodynamical stability had not been considered in its design billington explains that this accident along with a number of less dramatic bridge failures was a consequence of an increasing use of theoretical analyses that began in the NUMBERs however the very problem that destroyed the tacoma narrows bridge had been anticipated and avoided a century before by bridge designers who were guided by aesthetic principles according to billington the best structural engineers do not rely on mathematical analysis although they do not abandon it altogether rather their design activity is guided by a sense of elegance this is because solutions to structural engineering problems are usually greatly underdetermined that is there are many possible solutions to a particular problem such as bridging a particular river therefore expert designers restrict their attention to designs in which the interaction of the forces is easy to see the design looks unbalanced if the forces are unbalanced and the design looks stable if it is stable the general principle is that designs that look good will also be good and therefore the design process can be guided by aesthetics without extensive but incomplete mathematical analysis billington expresses this idea by inverting the old architectural maxim and asserting that in structural design function follows form he adds p NUMBER when the form is well chosen its analysis becomes astoundingly simple in other words the choice of form is open and free so we should pick forms where elegant design expresses good design i e efficient and economical design if we do so then we can let aesthetics guide design the same applies to programming language design by restricting our attention to designs in which the interaction of features is manifest in which good interactions look good and bad interactions look bad we can let our aesthetic sense guide our design and we can be much more confident that we have a good design without having to check all the possible interactions for the user in this case what s good for the designer also is good for the user nobody is comfortable crossing a bridge that looks like it will collapse at any moment and nobody is comfortable using a programming language in which features may explode if combined in the wrong way the manifest balance of forces in a well designed bridge gives us confidence when we cross it so also the manifestly good design of our programming language should reinforce our confidence when we program in it because we have well justified confidence in the consequences of our actions we accomplish little by covering an unbalanced structure in a beautiful facade when the bridge is unable to sustain the load for which it was designed and collapses it won t much matter that it was beautiful on the outside so also in programming languages if the elegance is only superficial that is if it is not the manifestation of a deep coherence in the design then programmers will quickly see through the illusion and loose their unwarranted confidence in summary good designers choose to work in a region of the design space where good designs look good as a consequence these designers can rely on their aesthetic sense as can the users of the structures bridges or programming languages they design we may miss out on some good designs this way but they are of limited value unless both the designer and the user can be confident that they are good designs we may summarize the preceding discussion in a maxim analogous to those in my principles of programming languages the elegance principle confine your attention to designs that look good because they are good the programming language as work environment there are other reasons that elegance is relevant to a well engineered programming language the programming language is something the professional programmer will live with even live in it should feel comfortable and safe like a well designed home or office in this way it can contribute to the quality of the activities that take place within it would you work better in an oriental garden or a sweatshop a programming language should be a joy to use this will encourage its use and decrease the programmer s fatigue and frustration the programming language should not be a hindrance but should serve more as a collaborator encouraging programmers to do their jobs better as some automobiles are driving machines and work as a natural extension of the driver so a programming language should be a programming machine by encouraging the programmer to acquire the smooth competence and seemingly effortless skill of a virtuoso the programming language should invite the programmer to design elegant efficient and economical programs through its aesthetic dimension a programming language symbolizes many values for example in the variety of its features it may symbolize profligate excess sparing economy or asceticism the kind of its features may represent intellectual sophistication down to earth practicality or ignorant crudeness thus a programming language can promote a set of values by embodying certain values it encourages us to think about them by neglecting or negating other values it allows them to recede into the background and out of our attention out of sight out of mind acquiring a sense of elegance aesthetics is notoriously difficult to teach so you may wonder how you are supposed to acquire that refined sense of elegance necessary to good design billington observes that this sense is acquired through extensive experience in design which especially in europe is encouraged by a competitive process for choosing bridge designers because of it structural engineers design many more bridges than they build and they learn from each competition they loose by comparing their own designs with those of the winner and other losers the public also critiques the competing designs and in this way becomes more educated their sense of elegance develops along with that of the designers so also to improve as a programming language designer you should design many languages design obsessively and criticize revise and discard your designs you should also evaluate and criticize other people s designs and try to improve them in this way you will acquire the body of experience you will need when the real thing comes along references NUMBER billington david p the tower and the bridge the new art of structural engineering princeton princeton university press NUMBER chapters NUMBER and NUMBER are the most relevant NUMBER maclennan bruce j principles of programming languages design evaluation and implementation second edition new york holt rinehart winston now oxford university press NUMBER ,0
 hijacker high NUMBER NUMBER dalal mughrabi was a palestinian woman who participated in a NUMBER bus hijacking in which NUMBER israelis and an american nature photographer gail ruban were killed mughrabi has a palestinian high school named after her and it s apparently starting to show signs of wear fortunately the united states agency for international development has stepped in with money to help renovate it URL links to URL ve NUMBER forNUMBERe html praeterea censeo palestininem esse delendam ,0
she read the links what must it be like she wondered to devote ones life to pointing out neighbors mistakes mishaps inconsistencies and frailties gloating is definitely underrated in the good book eh john bring it on gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john hall sent saturday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject our friends the palestinians our servants in government hijacker high NUMBER NUMBER dalal mughrabi was a palestinian woman who participated in a NUMBER bus hijacking in which NUMBER israelis and an american nature photographer gail ruban were killed mughrabi has a palestinian high school named after her and it s apparently starting to show signs of wear fortunately the united states agency for international development has stepped in with money to help renovate it URL links to URL ve NUMBER forNUMBERe html praeterea censeo palestininem esse delendam ,0
i propose they rename it charlie heston high and maybe the students will learn to take ar NUMBERs with extended military spec scopes and NUMBER high velocity ammo and start plinking innocent civilians at random in the suburbs of washington that s far more effectual than blowing oneself up in a bus in america these days it seems that violence ascribed to any political doctrine foreign to bushism is vile and repugnant but random violence is entertainment and intrigue a couple of ex fbi consultants speaking on the shootings in dc were quoted as saying the shooters presumed to be a pair were getting a heroin like high from each successful kill and that they for whatever reason decided to level the playing field thumbing their nose at law enforcement and society see just a couple of kids having fun with daddy s semi automatic hunting rifle harmless ian on saturday october NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm john hall wrote it wasn t gloating it was one for the horror file and of course for the palestinians it wasn t a mistake which is a key part of the horror i m not against american taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer if we do it with a daisy cutter original message from geege schuman mailto geege barrera org sent saturday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to johnhall evergo net fork subject re our friends the palestinians our servants in government she read the links what must it be like she wondered to devote ones life to pointing out neighbors mistakes mishaps inconsistencies and frailties gloating is definitely underrated in the good book eh john bring it on gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john hall sent saturday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject our friends the palestinians our servants in government hijacker high NUMBER NUMBER dalal mughrabi was a palestinian woman who participated in a NUMBER bus hijacking in which NUMBER israelis and an american nature photographer gail ruban were killed mughrabi has a palestinian high school named after her and it s apparently starting to show signs of wear fortunately the united states agency for international development has stepped in with money to help renovate it URL links to URL viewforeignbureaus asp page foreignbureaus archi ve NUMBER forNUMBERe html praeterea censeo palestininem esse delendam ,0
 it wasn t gloating it was one for the horror file and of course for the palestinians it wasn t a mistake which is a key part of the horror i m not against american taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer if we do it with a daisy cutter original message from geege schuman mailto geege barrera org sent saturday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to johnhall evergo net fork subject re our friends the palestinians our servants in government she read the links what must it be like she wondered to devote ones life to pointing out neighbors mistakes mishaps inconsistencies and frailties gloating is definitely underrated in the good book eh john bring it on gg original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john hall sent saturday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork subject our friends the palestinians our servants in government hijacker high NUMBER NUMBER dalal mughrabi was a palestinian woman who participated in a NUMBER bus hijacking in which NUMBER israelis and an american nature photographer gail ruban were killed mughrabi has a palestinian high school named after her and it s apparently starting to show signs of wear fortunately the united states agency for international development has stepped in with money to help renovate it URL links to URL ve NUMBER forNUMBERe html praeterea censeo palestininem esse delendam ,0
 original message from john hall johnhall evergo net i m not against american taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer if we do it with a daisy cutter with or without occupants ,0
john hall wrote it wasn t gloating it was one for the horror file and of course for the palestinians it wasn t a mistake which is a key part of the horror i m not against american taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer if we do it with a daisy cutter i m sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills the last palestinian in a few years owen ,0
see my first line i read the links brickbats idiot original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of owen byrne sent sunday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to johnhall URL cc geege schuman fork subject re our friends the palestinians our servants in government john hall wrote it wasn t gloating it was one for the horror file and of course for the palestinians it wasn t a mistake which is a key part of the horror i m not against american taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer if we do it with a daisy cutter i m sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills the last palestinian in a few years owen ,0
when a settler goes postal and kills some palestinians they are treated as a criminal not celebrated in word and song but you knew that when a palestinian sets out to great rejoicing to attempt to target children with a homicide bomb they are careful to dip the shrapnel in rat poison it helps prevent blood clotting in the victims you see i m sure all those jewish homicide bombers do the same oh wait there aren t any if the palestinians are driven completely out either by expulsion or death they will have nobody to blame but themselves that won t stop them or you from pretending otherwise from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of owen byrne i m sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills the last palestinian in a few years owen ,0
when brickbats or fox exposes the folly of government they do so to accomplish a specific end dumping truckload after truckload of bad acts proves their point stupidity and greed typify government therefore any government is too much government original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of john hall sent sunday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm cc fork subject re our friends the palestinians our servants in government yes you read the links sorry but exposing folly is not only humorous but also instructive it is only by exposing folly to ridicule that you stop it in the first place brickbats leans heavily on both though the item i highlighted was a horror item not a gee that is stupid item for an example of the latter see the city that wanted a woman to pay a ticket for parking in an unmarked no parking space from geege schuman mailto geege barrera org see my first line i read the links brickbats idiot ,0
yes you read the links sorry but exposing folly is not only humorous but also instructive it is only by exposing folly to ridicule that you stop it in the first place brickbats leans heavily on both though the item i highlighted was a horror item not a gee that is stupid item for an example of the latter see the city that wanted a woman to pay a ticket for parking in an unmarked no parking space from geege schuman mailto geege barrera org see my first line i read the links brickbats idiot ,0
i call pacbell sbc every two or three months about a recurring problem we have at my house we get a phone bill every month for someone who no longer lives at our house for a phone line which has been disconnected for over three years and the account balance is drum roll please NUMBER NUMBER sometimes the people i talk to cannot locate the account in their system and tell me that the phone number doesn t exist some people are able to locate the account but say that it has been disconnected and there is no way we could get a bill sent to us for that account some people can locate the account and verify that the line has been disconnected for three years and that the amount owed is NUMBER NUMBER and then they say somthing along the lines of huh or i m not sure what s going on hold please and eventually i have similar conversations with their managers and the account representatives and billing people and their managers and their managers managers ad naseum the outcome of every phone call is that they ll look into it and fix the problem and i might receive one or two more bills depending on when it s resolved so i wait a month or two and send the bills back marked not at this address please fsck off and then eventually call them back and go through the whole process again lately i just explain to the phone jockeys that i know it s not their fault and i m not mad at them and it s just not their day because i m about to give them hell then i give them the opportunity to have me yell at their boss which they seem all too happy to do at least it gives me a positive way to vent my aggressions and it s a lot cheaper than seeing a therapist perplexed elias bitbitch URL wrote so i get a check from pac bell today sbc as they re called now turns out they went to the trouble of printing out signing sealing and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole NUMBER NUMBER ,0
it was a kick when an apt manager kept mailing me a notice that i owed them NUMBER i just waited to see how many times they d mail me a notice NUMBER times by the time i left and paid them the NUMBER funny thing was i lived right behind the office where it was mailed from cindy on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote so i get a check from pac bell today sbc as they re called now turns out they went to the trouble of printing out signing sealing and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole NUMBER NUMBER they easily spent more than this just getting the materials together why the hell do companies bother to do this crap i mean isn t there a bottom line in terms of cost effectiveness i don t think i missed the NUMBER but i sure as hell would have appreciated lower rates in lieu of being returned pennies i m truly stuck on this though i don t know whether to frame the check burn it or cash it in maybe i should find a way to return to sender so they have to spend more money on giving me my NUMBER dues does NUMBER even buy anything anymore funny bit of it is i couldn t even make a phone call these days boggled bb i don t take no stocks in mathematics anyway huckleberry finn ,0
on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote i m truly stuck on this though i don t know whether to frame the check burn it or cash it in i framed my NUMBER check from URL someone bought the cd i have up there some years back and it is my real and actual proof in saying i am a paid musician of course i never cashed the check so techinaly i never did get paid but thats another matter alltogther ,0
i knew it d be a day for insanity so anyway URL decided to write up two wonderful articles on the dmca and decided to link to decss exe the very verboten code that ended up getting NUMBER but none of the other news services that originally linked spanked slashdot of course links to them so now i link to slashdot URL i find this all incredibly funny really congress _and_ the courts relaly do need to be considering how laws such as the dmca are applied for the most part these rules are coming down to whose friend you happen to be how nefarious the defendant party is and how asleep the judge is behind the case asleep self interested bought its giving me a real cynical view on being a lawyer thats for sure best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
dave long wrote URL the united states is the only country in the world to tax its citizens on a worldwide basis i am told this is also true at least for australia i suppose i shouldn t rely upon editorial fact checking if they manage to emulate the process that occurred in northern ireland then maybe in NUMBER years or so they ll be yelling at each other across the floor of some legislative assembly instead label me an optimist since let s you and him fight worked so remarkably poorly in ireland there must ve been plenty of places it worked well for the british to have tried it again in israel what were they dave i m not sure what you mean by let s you and him fight but it is important to remember that england was in control of ireland for NUMBER years and that it was only thanks to the distraction of ww i that the south managed to gain its independence if you mean splitting countries upon arbitrary lines and assigning different groups to opposite sides of the line it also seems to have not worked in india pakistan i suppose canada which is supposed to be a loose confederation of NUMBER founding nations french and english can be cited as a success the jury is still out but so far only a few brief rebellions and referendums and such still together after NUMBER years owen ,0
 i know i heard of this a few years back but wired and slashyrot are both running stories on NUMBERmbs data transfer via human touch oh i can see it now the first bicostal file exchange system that will see the newsest offspring tunes distribute by handshake copulation and moshpiting URL URL URL ,0
hello tom monday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm you wrote t i know i heard of this a few years back but wired and slashyrot are both t running stories on NUMBERmbs data transfer via human touch t oh i can see it now the first bicostal file exchange system that will see t the newsest offspring tunes distribute by handshake copulation and t moshpiting t URL t URL t URL wow i m just wondering how the earliest adopter of all new technologies the porn market will spin this one new now you can transfer porn while you screw talk about exchanging energy best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
they are legally required to do that i got a similar check because an insurance company didn t pay a claim quickly enough it might have been NUMBER although they spent lots more than NUMBER to mail you the check the alternative seems to be to keep the money do you really want companies to have a financial incentive to over bill you just a bit so they could keep it for a company with millions of customers NUMBER customer starts adding up from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of bitbitch URL so i get a check from pac bell today sbc as they re called now turns out they went to the trouble of printing out signing sealing and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole NUMBER NUMBER they easily spent more than this just getting the materials together why the hell do companies bother to do this crap i mean isn t there a bottom line in terms of cost effectiveness i don t think i missed the NUMBER but i sure as hell would have appreciated lower rates in lieu of being returned pennies i m truly stuck on this though i don t know whether to frame the check burn it or cash it in maybe i should find a way to return to sender so they have to spend more money on giving me my NUMBER dues does NUMBER even buy anything anymore funny bit of it is i couldn t even make a phone call these days boggled bb best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
 jh they are legally required to do that i got a similar check because an jh insurance company didn t pay a claim quickly enough it might have been jh NUMBER jh although they spent lots more than NUMBER to mail you the check the jh alternative seems to be to keep the money do you really want companies jh to have a financial incentive to over bill you just a bit so they jh could keep it for a company with millions of customers NUMBER customer jh starts adding up christ you sound worse than me what i said in my post john was that instead of having to dole out stupid refunds i d rather they save the costs incurred knock off one of those bullshit surcharges that they inevitably charge for promoting services like these and move on something tells me it d balance out problem is they re silly they don t want to do this and rather than the legislation coming up with an affective means of controlling the situation overcharging they impose silly requirements like this from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of bitbitch URL so i get a check from pac bell today sbc as they re called now turns out they went to the trouble of printing out signing sealing and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole NUMBER NUMBER they easily spent more than this just getting the materials together why the hell do companies bother to do this crap i mean isn t there a bottom line in terms of cost effectiveness i don t think i missed the NUMBER but i sure as hell would have appreciated lower rates in lieu of being returned pennies i m truly stuck on this though i don t know whether to frame the check burn it or cash it in maybe i should find a way to return to sender so they have to spend more money on giving me my NUMBER dues does NUMBER even buy anything anymore funny bit of it is i couldn t even make a phone call these days boggled bb best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL best regards bitbitch mailto bitbitch URL ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER owen byrne wrote i suppose canada which is supposed to be a loose confederation of NUMBER founding nations french and english can be cited as a success the jury is still out but so far only a few brief rebellions and referendums and such still together after NUMBER years alberta and to a lesser extent some of the other western provinces is definitely not happy with the current arrangement some of this has to do with the strange way the canadian government is structured when i was last up in alberta a month ago the newspapers were reporting something like NUMBER of albertans favor separating from canada and over several distinct issues the problem is basically that while alberta is an economic powerhouse that is propping up the weaker economies of the eastern provinces their interests are openly and unapologetically ignored by the government in ottawa while alberta sends something like twice the tax dollars to ottawa per capita of the average canadian they only have token representation in the federal government while i m not clear on exactly how the government works up there representation is not entirely based on population and it works out that some eastern provinces with populations smaller than the city of calgary alone have substantially more representatives in the legislature than the entire province of alberta the long and the short of it is that the eastern provinces use alberta as a personal atm machine for their social programs while not even so much as throwing alberta a bone and are able to do so because even the sparsely populated eastern provinces can out vote alberta despite having fewer people or something like that the canadian government is less restricted than the us government so they can do strange things like having restrictive regulations that only apply to certain provinces alberta being on the receiving end of many such obscenities it is essentially a much worse version of what is happening in the inter mountain west of the us unlike the us case though the rest of canada would really be hurting if they weren t receiving all those tax dollars from alberta otoh alberta would probably thrive i have friends in alberta and visit occasionally but i m not totally clear on everything that goes on in that country due to my partial unfamiliarity with how the government works up there so i m a little fuzzy on some of the details what i do know is that on average the albertans are quite unhappy with their current position in canada and the sentiment has been getting worse over the years cheers james rogers jamesr URL ,0
why am i so passionate about decentralization because i believe some of today s most profound problems with networked applications are caused by centralization generically a centralized political or economic system permits only one answer to a question while decentralization permits many separate agents to hold different opinions of the same matter in the specific context of software centralized variables can only contain one valid value at a time that limits us to only representing information a according to the beliefs of a single agency and b that changes more slowly than it takes to propagate nevertheless centralization is the basis for today s most popular architectural style for developing network applications client server interaction using request response communication protocols i believe these are profound limitations which we are already encountering in practice spam for example is in the eye of the beholder yet our email protocols and tools do not acknowledge the separate interests of senders and receivers slamming for another unfairly advantages the bidder with the lowest latency connection to a centralized auction server sharing ad hoc wireless networks is yet a third example of decentralized resource allocation furthermore as abstract as centralization induced failures might seem today these limits will _not_ improve as the cost of computing storage and communication bandwidth continue to plummet instead the speed of light and human independence constitute _fundamental_ limits to centralized information representation and hence centralized software architecture ,0
chris haun wrote a lifegem is a certified high quality diamond created from the carbon of your loved one as a memorial to their unique and wonderful life why wait until you re dead i m sure there s enough carbon in the fat from your typical liposuction job to make a decent diamond joe URL ,0
 from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of dave long sent thursday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to fork URL subject re the curse of india s socialism when i d read that getting legal title can take NUMBER years when i believe that NUMBER year ought to be more than sufficient and helped by the cairo reference i d assumed that we were talking about the urban poor if i see people living in mansions or even in suburban subdivisions i assume they didn t have too much trouble with their titles pg NUMBER in another country a local newspaper intrigued by our evidence of extralegal real estate holdings checked to see if the head of state s official residence had a recorded title it did not pg NUMBER the value of land in the formal sector of lima averages us NUMBER per square meter whereas in the area of gamarra where a great deal of peru s informal manufacturing sector resides the value per square meter can go as high as us NUMBER NUMBER i d have made the same assumption you did de soto says that isn t correct you can find mansions that don t have title a lot of them in fact but they can t be used for collateral for a loan or otherwise participate as capital because of their extra legal status mr long i think you d particularly enjoy the de soto work on the to find list any chance of an explanation of that bell jar in the meantime french historian fernand braudel so braudel s bell jar not de soto s the key problem is to find out why that sector of society of the past which i would not hesitate to call capitalist should have lived as if in a bell jar cut off from the rest why was it not able to expand and conquer the whole of society why was it that a significant rate of capital formation was possible only in certain sectors and not in the whole market economy of the time it would perhaps be teasingly paradoxial to say that whatever was in short supply money certainly was not so this was an age where poor land was bought up and magnificent country residents built how do we resolve the contradiction between the depressed economic climate and the splendors of florence under lorenzo the magnificent de soto s theory is that the bell jar is formed when you segregate those who have practical access to legal property rights and those who do not the poor NUMBER have property lots and lots of property what they don t have is access to the systems where we turn property into capital and allow it to start growing their property can only be exchanged with a small section of people who know them personally NUMBER actual poor people not poor americans with a living standard that is the envy of most of the world URL ,0
 political mail the snail kind doesn t bother me i like it a lot of the time because as crap as it is at least it s not the kind of info you get on tv particularly for small time local politics it s the best way to get information but what matters is that mail is speech and political email has to be as well protected as any other political speech spam is the tool for dissident news since the face that it s unsolicited means that recipients can t be blamed for being on a mailing list URL ,0
on fri NUMBER aug NUMBER robert harley wrote it s an amusing anecdote i don t know if it s true or not but certainly nothing here supports the authoritative sounding conclusion status false so thats the trick just let any anecdotal utterances you like be deemed true until proven false and then hold other data to the opposite standard yeah i see how that could be a handy tool rh before teh lablemongers are out and about i could give a shit what bubbau utters its all shite kill your idols folks your slips are showing tom URL ,0
i wrote i personally doubt it simply because i never heard of bush and chirac going to brighton actually it doesn t say that they did just that blair spoke to williams there r URL ,0
bitbitch URL wrote well beberg unless you re really into anime and actually hold true that dead people can send email i think geege s subject is just dandy funny you should mention that as i just came back from refilling the green coolant in my navi bonus fork points if adam knows what anime i m refering to i guess i don t get any points do i no didn t think so joe p s we ve just started watching boogiepop phantom the combatant state is your father and your mother your only protector the totality of your interests no discipline can be stern enough for the man who denies that by word or deed ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER bitbitch URL wrote well beberg unless you re really into anime and actually hold true that dead people can send email i think geege s subject is just dandy especially since she removed herself from the hive that is aol and placed herself unto another but hey bandwidth is bandwidth aol is still the only mom friendly place to get it ducks and runs what like i m not skilled with a bow you better run really fast p bonus fork points if adam knows what anime i m refering to well lets see about NUMBER of all anime in anime dead people can talk email hang out and generally lead normal lives come to think of it they tend to be the primary characters but i suspect you mean serial experiments lain in which the initial i m not dead yet is via email adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ed greenberg wrote at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dan URL wrote the nature of our patent is about putting a warrant mark in rfc NUMBER x headers or in the body to allow senders to warrant their mail as not spam and then to use copyright and trademark infringement to enable habeas to enforce that warranty why is it that i envision verisign doing something like this yeah like i want verisign to sign all my spam er mail for me pay them enough and they d probably sign spam too j justin shore es ss es ssr pittsburg state university network systems manager URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER matthew cline wrote on tuesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm harold hallikainen wrote URL summary a company will offer short snippets of original copyrighted and trademarked text that can be inserted into email message headers and email filters can recognize this as a not spam indicator any spammers who use the text will be sued for copyright and trademark infringement they may be in for a patent fight before any of this goes forward URL banking on the fact that few enterprises sending commercial mail want to be associated with spam ironport systems inc in san bruno calif has developed the bonded sender program in an effort to give legitimate bulk e mailers some credibility this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
suppose i created a rule that was in this form body rule_name text to delete d would the d delete this text from the body and mask it from the rest of the rules if so i m thinking about applying it to yahoo and sn and juno ads so that fps are reduced this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER justin mason wrote justin shore said i just ran across a false positive that scored NUMBER NUMBER the message was a solicited ad from URL on educator deals i can send a copy if anyone wants it yes please do send it on and i ll add it to the non spam corpus to any particular address i checked the lists page but didn t see an address to see a fp to to date the scores evolved by spamassassin are very biased towards non html non newsletter ish mail this release should be different as i ve been spending the last month signing up a nonspamtrap to every legit newsletter i can find that s understandable html mail is the worst thing since female shoe sales at the mall signup for the URL newsletter great place to find and review motorcycle parts this should mean that tests which match common enough newsletter practices will no longer get such high scores once we re run the ga sound pretty slick if i come across any more legit newsletters i ll send them your way thanks for the info justin justin shore es ss es ssr pittsburg state university network systems manager URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
i m fairly confused here with procmail i know this isn t a procmail list per se feel free to answer my questions in private email to r_gilmanhunt URL i ve looked for web stuff to answer this question but i can t find anything specific on this scenario here s the situation i have a global etc procmailrc file it works and when i insert stuff into it for logging logfile root procmail log verbose yeah logabstract all it shows up where i expect it to the log in root procmail log at the end of this file i use NUMBERfw spamc to call spamassassin also in it is a carboncopy recipe yes i know it s one of the evils we do for our corporate masters at the top to their credit i am instructed that they are not interested in the actual contents but are concerned about future lawsuits and their culpability so they want a record made discussion on this point is immaterial NUMBER test d archivedir datedir mkdir p mode NUMBER archivedir datedir NUMBER c saveat i have several users where i forward certain spams to dev null their procmailrc file home user procmailrc looks like this NUMBER from spermfun com dev null now i ve got a person who needs a copy of her inbound emails sent to another email address outside the company so i ve got this recipe in her home user procmailrc file NUMBER c user domain tld it almost looks like procmail s not running a user s copy recipe after a global copy recipe except that i can replace that user s one with NUMBER subject test procmail holder and get the same result the result to put it succinctly is nothing no forwards go out no files are made if i try to log information no logs are set up i ve modified the user group and permissions to match known working recipes the spermfun example above and still nothing however i can redirect those other messages in other words just this user s procmailrc file is not working other users have no problems any suggestions would be helpful russ this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
interesting it s possible of course that the shitty economy is hurting the spammers as much as anyone else but if you ve been aggressively reporting then it could just be that could be your upstream isp is being more aggressive too c on wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm karsten m self wrote what these plots don t show is the drop from NUMBER mails daily to NUMBER daily that i ve seen at work since NUMBERst week of may when spam receipts peaked not sure if it s aggressive reporting that s getting us off lists or if other people are seeing similar this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 theo van dinter said nonspam theo log hmmm i did re run mass check and resubmit i sort the log by score so the timestamp is at the end ah ok didn t see that j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER theo van dinter wrote on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER malte s stretz wrote ummm has somebody noticed that spamassassin sightings is the fourth most active list for this month on NUMBER there is more sighting than talk and devel together hmmm do people know that they should only send false negatives there either there s a lot of stuff sa is missing or some people are just sending all their spam there i ve sent in some spam that either didn t score or scored practically nothing like below NUMBER i figure that most people run at NUMBER so if it scores less than that a rule needs to be honed to catch it justin justin shore es ss es ssr pittsburg state university network systems manager URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER the voices made justin mason write the perl module mail checkuser implements a smtp callback and i hope it might be integrated rather easily has this extension been discussed before and perhaps rejected or perhaps someone is already planning to implement it or would you be interested to integrate a smtp callback patch in spamassassin if contributed by my department we would not be to happy about such a patch which we had to manage and integrate with sa in the future but i believe a one time contribution would be no problem how d this deal with you running sa on an account where all the mail from some domain on another server ends up tony per scientiam ad libertatem through knowledge towards freedom genom kunskap mot frihet c NUMBER NUMBER tony URL perl e print _ _ for sort _ lynx dump URL ,0
no analysis yet don t know what to make of it yet but here s the raw bits for all to peruse and check out what s really going on best rohit datapower delivers xml acceleration device by scott tyler shafer august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am pt datapower technology on monday unveiled its network device designed specifically to process xml data unlike competing solutions that process xml data in software datapower s device processes the data in hardware a technology achievement that provides greater performance according to company officials the new device dubbed datapower xaNUMBER xml accelerator is the first in a family of products expected from the cambridge mass based startup the datapower family is based on a proprietary processing core technology called xgNUMBER that does the analysis parsing and processing of the xml data according to steve kelly ceo of datapower the xaNUMBER accelerator was conceived to meet the steady adoption of xml the anticipated future proliferation of web services and as a means to share data between two businesses our vision is to build out an xml aware infrastructure kelly said the xaNUMBER is the first of a family kelly explained that converting data into xml increases the file size up to NUMBER times this he said makes processing the data very taxing on application servers datapower believes an inline device is the best alternative in addition to the large file sizes security is also of paramount importance in the world of xml today s firewalls are designed to inspect http traffic only kelly said a soap packet with xml will go straight through a firewall firewalls are blind to xml today future products in datapowers family will focus more specifically on security especially as web services proliferate kelly said according to datapower most existing solutions to offload xml processing are homegrown and done in software an approach the company itself tried initially and found to be inadequate with regards to speed and security after trying the software path the company turned to creating a solution that would process xml in hardware our xgNUMBER execution core converts xml to machine code said kelly adding that to his knowledge no other company s solution does kelly said in the next few months he expects the market to be flooded with technologies that claim to do xml processing claims that he believes will be mostly false other content aware switches such as ssl secure socket layer accelerators and load balancers look at the first NUMBER bytes of a packet while the xaNUMBER provides deeper packet inspection looking at NUMBER NUMBER bytes and thus enabling greater processing of xml data kelly explained the NUMBERu high network device has been tested against a large collection of xml and xsl data types and can learn new flavors of the markup language as they pass through the device the xaNUMBER can be deployed in proxy mode behind a firewall and a load balancer and it will inspect all traffic that passes and will identify and process those packets that are xml kelly said in addition to proxy mode the device can also be used as an application co processor this deployment method gives administrators more granular control over what data is inspected and the application server itself controls the device datapower is not the only company chasing this emerging market startup sarvega based in burr ridge ill introduced the sarvega xpe switch in may and earlier this month tarari an intel spin off launched with a focus on content processing and acceleration the datapower device is now available priced starting at NUMBER NUMBER the company has announced one customer to date and says the product is in field trails at a number of other enterprises datapower has been addressing enterprise networking needs since it was founded in early NUMBER by eugene kuznetsov a technology visionary who foresaw the adverse effects xml and other next generation protocols would have on enterprise networks long before industry interest in xml grew kuznetsov assembled a team of world class m i t engineers and designed the industry s first solutions to address the unique requirements for processing xml the first such solution was a software interpreter called dgxt this software based approach to xml processing is still licensed by many companies for use in their own products today leveraging the detailed knowledge and customer experience gained from developing software based accelerators kuznetsov s team raised the bar and designed a system for processing xml in purpose built hardware in NUMBER datapower s effort produced xml generation three xgNUMBER the industry s fastest technology for xml processing bar none today xgNUMBER technology powers the industry s first wire speed xml network devices enabling secure high speed applications and xml web services while other companies are just now marketing first versions of products datapower is delivering its third generation of technology providing an immediate return on technology investments to industry leading customers and partners datapower s m i t heritage is complemented by a management team that brings decades of experience in the networking and computing industries drawing veteran leaders from several successful companies including akamai argon cascade castle networks sycamore and wellfleet datapower technology secures NUMBER NUMBER million in funding venrock associates mobius venture capital and seed capital back pioneer in xml aware networking for web services cambridge mass july NUMBER NUMBER datapower technology inc the leading provider of xml aware network infrastructure today announced that it has secured NUMBER NUMBER million in series b financing investors for this round include venrock associates mobius venture capital and seed capital partners michael tyrrell of venrock bill burnham of mobius and jeff fagnan of seed capital have joined datapower s board of directors datapower will use this funding to accelerate development marketing and sales of the company s breakthrough technology for xml aware networking founded in NUMBER datapower invented the world s first intelligent xml networking devices capable of transforming xml traffic and transactions at the wire speed enterprises need to effectively embrace web services and other xml centric initiatives datapower s solutions are based on its patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology enterprises are adopting xml at rapid rate to facilitate inter and intra company communications but their network infrastructure is ill prepared to support the requirements of this new traffic type datapower s xml acceleration devices enable the wirespeed processing of xml that is required to support next generation enterprise applications said eugene kuznetsov cto and founder of datapower technology datapower gives companies the ability to use xml that s critical to web services projects without sacrificing an ounce of performance a single datapower acceleration engine delivers the processing power of NUMBER servers breaking the performance bottleneck associated with xml processing and delivering an extraordinary return on investment in addition the datapower platform provides enhanced xml security protection against xml based denial of service attacks connection of e business protocols for incompatible xml data streams load balancing between back end servers and real time statistics reports in the post bubble economy technology investment decisions require laser focused scrutiny datapower s patent pending technology addresses a very real and growing pain point for enterprises said michael tyrrell of venrock associates by turbo charging their networks with datapower s unique xml aware networking technology companies will be free to adopt next generation web services without encountering performance and security pitfalls we looked long and hard for a company capable of addressing the rapidly growing problems surrounding xml message processing performance and security said bill burnham of mobius venture capital datapower is on their third generation of technology their patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology was quite simply the single most compelling technology solution we have seen to date xml is not a nice to have it is a must have for enterprises serious about optimizing application efficiency since NUMBER datapower has been developing solutions to facilitate enterprise use of xml and web services said jeff fagnan of seed capital partners datapower s xml acceleration devices are a key requirement for enterprises that rely on xml for mission critical applications about venrock associates venrock associates was founded as the venture capital arm of the rockefeller family and continues a tradition of funding entrepreneurs that now spans over seven decades laurance s rockefeller pioneered early stage venture financing in the NUMBERs with over NUMBER investments over a span of more than NUMBER years the firm has an established a track record of identifying and supporting promising early stage technology based enterprises as one of most experienced venture firms in the united states venrock maintains a tradition of collaboration with talented entrepreneurs to establish successful enduring companies venrock s continuing goal is to create long term value by assisting entrepreneurs in building companies from the formative stages their consistent focus on information technology and life sciences related opportunities provides a reservoir of knowledge and a network of contacts that have proven to be a catalyst for the growth of developing organizations venrock s investments have included checkpoint software usinternetworking caliper technologies illumina niku doubleclick media metrix NUMBERcom intel and apple computer with offices in new york city cambridge ma and menlo park ca venrock is well positioned to respond to opportunities in any locale for more information on venrock associates please visit URL about mobius venture capital mobius venture capital formerly softbank venture capital is a NUMBER NUMBER billion u s based private equity venture capital firm managed by an unparalleled team of former ceos and entrepreneurs technology pioneers senior executives from major technology corporations and leaders from the investment banking community mobius venture capital specializes primarily in early stage investments in the areas of communications systems software and services infrastructure software and services professional services enterprise applications healthcare informatics consumer and small business applications components and emerging technologies mobius venture capital combines its technology expertise and broad financial assets with the industry s best entrepreneurs to create a powerhouse portfolio of over NUMBER of the world s leading high technology companies mobius venture capital can be contacted by visiting their web site URL about seed capital partners seed capital partners is an early stage venture fund affiliated with softbank corporation one of the world s leading internet market forces seed capital manages funds focused primarily on companies addressing internet enabled business to business digital information technology opportunities which are located in the northeastern u s the southeastern region of the province of ontario canada and israel seed capital s portfolio includes spearhead technologies concentric visions and companydna for more information on seed capital partners please visit URL about datapower technology datapower technology provides enterprises with intelligent xml aware network infrastructure to ensure unparalleled performance security and manageability of next generation protocols datapower s patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology powers the industry s first wirespeed xml network devices enabling secure high speed applications and xml web services founded in NUMBER datapower is now delivering its third generation of technology providing immediate return on technology investments to industry leading customers and partners datapower is privately held and based in cambridge ma investors include mobius venture capital seed capital partners and venrock associates contact datapower technology inc kieran taylor NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER kieran URL schwartz communications john moran heather chichakly NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER datapower URL steve kelly chairman and ceo during over twenty years in the technology industry steve kelly has built and managed global enterprise networks provided consulting services to fortune NUMBER businesses and been involved in the launch of several start ups prior to datapower kelly was an entrepreneur in residence at venrock associates and was co founder of castle networks where he led the company s sales service and marketing functions castle was acquired by siemens ag in NUMBER to create unisphere networks which was subsequently purchased by juniper networks kelly was an early contributor at cascade communications where he built and managed the company s core switching business cascade s annual revenues grew from NUMBER million to NUMBER million annually during kelly s tenure kelly also worked at digital equipment corporation where he managed and grew their corporate network to NUMBER NUMBER nodes in NUMBER countries the largest in the world at the time kelly has a b s in information systems from bentley college eugene kuznetsov founder president and cto eugene kuznetsov is a technology visionary that has been working to address enterprise xml issues since the late NUMBERs kuznetsov founded datapower technology inc in NUMBER to provide enterprises with an intelligent xml aware network infrastructure to support next generation applications prior to starting datapower kuznetsov led the java jit compiler effort for microsoft internet explorer for macintosh NUMBER NUMBER he was also part of the team which developed one of the first clean room java vm s this high speed runtime technology was licensed by some of the industry s largest technology companies including apple computer he has consulted to numerous companies and worked on a variety of hardware and software engineering problems in the areas of memory management power electronics optimized execution engines and application integration kuznetsov holds a b s in electrical engineering from mit steve willis vice president of advanced technology steve willis is an accomplished entrepreneur and a pioneer in protocol optimization prior to joining datapower willis was co founder and cto of argon networks a provider of high performance switching routers that was acquired by siemens ag in NUMBER to create unisphere networks unisphere was subsequently purchased by juniper networks before argon steve was vice president of advanced technology at bay networks now nortel networks where he led both ip and atm related technology development and managed a group that generated NUMBER patent applications developed a NUMBER mbps forwarding engine and led the specification of the atm forum s pnni routing protocol most notably steve was co founder original software director and architect for wellfleet communications a leading pioneer of multi protocol routers wellfleet was rated as the fastest growing company in the u s for two consecutive years by fortune magazine willis is currently a member of the institute of electrical and electronics engineers ieee and the internet research task force irtf routing research group willis has a b d i c in computer science from the university of massachusetts bill tao vice president of engineering with a vast understanding of network optimization technologies and extensive experience in lan and wan networking bill tao brings over NUMBER years of critical knowledge to lead datapower s engineering efforts prior to datapower tao was the vice president of engineering for sycamore networks developing a family of metro regional optical network switches he is also well acquainted with network optimization techniques as he was previously vice president of engineering at infolibria where he led development and software quality assurance engineering for a family of network caching products tao has held senior engineering positions at netedge proteon codex and wang tao received a b s in electrical engineering from the university of connecticut and an m s in computer science from the university of illinois kieran taylor director of product marketing kieran taylor has an accomplished record as a marketing professional industry analyst and journalist prior to joining datapower taylor was the director of product management and marketing for akamai technologies nasdaq akam as an early contributor at akamai he helped develop the company s initial positioning and led the technical development and go to market activities for akamai s flagship edgesuite service taylor s early contribution helped position the service provider to secure a NUMBER NUMBER billion ipo he has also held senior marketing management positions at nortel networks inc and bay networks taylor was previously an analyst at telechoice inc and the wide area networks editor for data communications a mcgraw hill publication taylor holds a b a in print journalism from the pennsylvania state university school of communications board of advisors mark hoover mark hoover is president and co founder of acuitive inc a start up accelerator with over NUMBER years experience in the networking industry hoover s expertise spans product development marketing and business development before launching acuitive hoover worked at at t bell laboratories at t computer systems synoptics and bay networks where he played a role in the development of key technologies such as NUMBER baset routing fddi atm ethernet switching firewall internet traffic management and edge wan switch industries george kassabgi currently vice president of engineering at bea systems mr kassabgi has held executive level positions in engineering sales and marketing and has spearheaded leading edge developments in the application server marketplace since NUMBER he is widely known for his regular speaking engagements at javaone as well as columns and contributions in javapro java developer s journal and other publications in addition to being a venerated java expert george kassabgi holds a patent on smartobject technology and authored the technical book progress vNUMBER marshall t rose marshall t rose runs his own firm dover beach consulting inc he formerly held the position of the internet engineering task force ietf area director for network management one of a dozen individuals who oversaw the internet s standardization process rose is the author of several professional texts on subjects such as internet management electronic mail and directory services which have been published in four languages he is well known for his implementations of core internet technologies such as pop smtp and snmp and osi technologies such as x NUMBER and ftam rose received a phd in information and computer science from the university of california irvine in NUMBER ,0
 from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of james rogers subject re the curse of india s socialism on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER ian andrew bell wrote they finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz laying off hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down so what nobody is guaranteed employment laying people off is not a crime nor is it immoral companies don t exist to provide employment nor should they the closest we have to such a thing in the us is a government job and look at the quality that breeds and further why focus on the fact they were laid off and not on the fact they were hired in the first place btw i saw someone claim that aside from the efficiency of the market there were also gains to society from irrational behavior if a society has business people that systematically overestimate their chances that is bad for the businessmen but on net a big gain for society on the social level the law of averages works to societies benefit in a manner it can t for an individual a key reason in this view that the us wound up outperforming england was that the english investors were too rational for their societies own good except of course when us investors were bilking them to build canals and railroads over here thanks guys applied to telecom a lot of dark wire glass and innovation will eventually be used for pennies on the dollar the benefits to society and the costs to the investors ,0
on NUMBER aug NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER rohit khare wrote datapower technology on monday unveiled its network device designed specifically to process xml data unlike competing solutions that process xml data in software datapower s device processes the data in hardware a technology achievement that provides greater performance according to company officials sarvega seems to have a similar product URL ,0
if it s not stateful it wouldn t seem to be worth the effort although i guess it might help with ddos attacks sounds snake oilish to me but i m biased by lots of experience with firewalls and proxy servers and the limitations thereof ken original message from rohit khare mailto khare alumni caltech edu sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject datapower announces xml in silicon no analysis yet don t know what to make of it yet but here s the raw bits for all to peruse and check out what s really going on best rohit datapower delivers xml acceleration device by scott tyler shafer august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am pt datapower technology on monday unveiled its network device designed specifically to process xml data unlike competing solutions that process xml data in software datapower s device processes the data in hardware a technology achievement that provides greater performance according to company officials the new device dubbed datapower xaNUMBER xml accelerator is the first in a family of products expected from the cambridge mass based startup the datapower family is based on a proprietary processing core technology called xgNUMBER that does the analysis parsing and processing of the xml data according to steve kelly ceo of datapower the xaNUMBER accelerator was conceived to meet the steady adoption of xml the anticipated future proliferation of web services and as a means to share data between two businesses our vision is to build out an xml aware infrastructure kelly said the xaNUMBER is the first of a family kelly explained that converting data into xml increases the file size up to NUMBER times this he said makes processing the data very taxing on application servers datapower believes an inline device is the best alternative in addition to the large file sizes security is also of paramount importance in the world of xml today s firewalls are designed to inspect http traffic only kelly said a soap packet with xml will go straight through a firewall firewalls are blind to xml today future products in datapowers family will focus more specifically on security especially as web services proliferate kelly said according to datapower most existing solutions to offload xml processing are homegrown and done in software an approach the company itself tried initially and found to be inadequate with regards to speed and security after trying the software path the company turned to creating a solution that would process xml in hardware our xgNUMBER execution core converts xml to machine code said kelly adding that to his knowledge no other company s solution does kelly said in the next few months he expects the market to be flooded with technologies that claim to do xml processing claims that he believes will be mostly false other content aware switches such as ssl secure socket layer accelerators and load balancers look at the first NUMBER bytes of a packet while the xaNUMBER provides deeper packet inspection looking at NUMBER NUMBER bytes and thus enabling greater processing of xml data kelly explained the NUMBERu high network device has been tested against a large collection of xml and xsl data types and can learn new flavors of the markup language as they pass through the device the xaNUMBER can be deployed in proxy mode behind a firewall and a load balancer and it will inspect all traffic that passes and will identify and process those packets that are xml kelly said in addition to proxy mode the device can also be used as an application co processor this deployment method gives administrators more granular control over what data is inspected and the application server itself controls the device datapower is not the only company chasing this emerging market startup sarvega based in burr ridge ill introduced the sarvega xpe switch in may and earlier this month tarari an intel spin off launched with a focus on content processing and acceleration the datapower device is now available priced starting at NUMBER NUMBER the company has announced one customer to date and says the product is in field trails at a number of other enterprises datapower has been addressing enterprise networking needs since it was founded in early NUMBER by eugene kuznetsov a technology visionary who foresaw the adverse effects xml and other next generation protocols would have on enterprise networks long before industry interest in xml grew kuznetsov assembled a team of world class m i t engineers and designed the industry s first solutions to address the unique requirements for processing xml the first such solution was a software interpreter called dgxt this software based approach to xml processing is still licensed by many companies for use in their own products today leveraging the detailed knowledge and customer experience gained from developing software based accelerators kuznetsov s team raised the bar and designed a system for processing xml in purpose built hardware in NUMBER datapower s effort produced xml generation three xgNUMBER the industry s fastest technology for xml processing bar none today xgNUMBER technology powers the industry s first wire speed xml network devices enabling secure high speed applications and xml web services while other companies are just now marketing first versions of products datapower is delivering its third generation of technology providing an immediate return on technology investments to industry leading customers and partners datapower s m i t heritage is complemented by a management team that brings decades of experience in the networking and computing industries drawing veteran leaders from several successful companies including akamai argon cascade castle networks sycamore and wellfleet datapower technology secures NUMBER NUMBER million in funding venrock associates mobius venture capital and seed capital back pioneer in xml aware networking for web services cambridge mass july NUMBER NUMBER datapower technology inc the leading provider of xml aware network infrastructure today announced that it has secured NUMBER NUMBER million in series b financing investors for this round include venrock associates mobius venture capital and seed capital partners michael tyrrell of venrock bill burnham of mobius and jeff fagnan of seed capital have joined datapower s board of directors datapower will use this funding to accelerate development marketing and sales of the company s breakthrough technology for xml aware networking founded in NUMBER datapower invented the world s first intelligent xml networking devices capable of transforming xml traffic and transactions at the wire speed enterprises need to effectively embrace web services and other xml centric initiatives datapower s solutions are based on its patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology enterprises are adopting xml at rapid rate to facilitate inter and intra company communications but their network infrastructure is ill prepared to support the requirements of this new traffic type datapower s xml acceleration devices enable the wirespeed processing of xml that is required to support next generation enterprise applications said eugene kuznetsov cto and founder of datapower technology datapower gives companies the ability to use xml that s critical to web services projects without sacrificing an ounce of performance a single datapower acceleration engine delivers the processing power of NUMBER servers breaking the performance bottleneck associated with xml processing and delivering an extraordinary return on investment in addition the datapower platform provides enhanced xml security protection against xml based denial of service attacks connection of e business protocols for incompatible xml data streams load balancing between back end servers and real time statistics reports in the post bubble economy technology investment decisions require laser focused scrutiny datapower s patent pending technology addresses a very real and growing pain point for enterprises said michael tyrrell of venrock associates by turbo charging their networks with datapower s unique xml aware networking technology companies will be free to adopt next generation web services without encountering performance and security pitfalls we looked long and hard for a company capable of addressing the rapidly growing problems surrounding xml message processing performance and security said bill burnham of mobius venture capital datapower is on their third generation of technology their patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology was quite simply the single most compelling technology solution we have seen to date xml is not a nice to have it is a must have for enterprises serious about optimizing application efficiency since NUMBER datapower has been developing solutions to facilitate enterprise use of xml and web services said jeff fagnan of seed capital partners datapower s xml acceleration devices are a key requirement for enterprises that rely on xml for mission critical applications about venrock associates venrock associates was founded as the venture capital arm of the rockefeller family and continues a tradition of funding entrepreneurs that now spans over seven decades laurance s rockefeller pioneered early stage venture financing in the NUMBERs with over NUMBER investments over a span of more than NUMBER years the firm has an established a track record of identifying and supporting promising early stage technology based enterprises as one of most experienced venture firms in the united states venrock maintains a tradition of collaboration with talented entrepreneurs to establish successful enduring companies venrock s continuing goal is to create long term value by assisting entrepreneurs in building companies from the formative stages their consistent focus on information technology and life sciences related opportunities provides a reservoir of knowledge and a network of contacts that have proven to be a catalyst for the growth of developing organizations venrock s investments have included checkpoint software usinternetworking caliper technologies illumina niku doubleclick media metrix NUMBERcom intel and apple computer with offices in new york city cambridge ma and menlo park ca venrock is well positioned to respond to opportunities in any locale for more information on venrock associates please visit URL about mobius venture capital mobius venture capital formerly softbank venture capital is a NUMBER NUMBER billion u s based private equity venture capital firm managed by an unparalleled team of former ceos and entrepreneurs technology pioneers senior executives from major technology corporations and leaders from the investment banking community mobius venture capital specializes primarily in early stage investments in the areas of communications systems software and services infrastructure software and services professional services enterprise applications healthcare informatics consumer and small business applications components and emerging technologies mobius venture capital combines its technology expertise and broad financial assets with the industry s best entrepreneurs to create a powerhouse portfolio of over NUMBER of the world s leading high technology companies mobius venture capital can be contacted by visiting their web site URL about seed capital partners seed capital partners is an early stage venture fund affiliated with softbank corporation one of the world s leading internet market forces seed capital manages funds focused primarily on companies addressing internet enabled business to business digital information technology opportunities which are located in the northeastern u s the southeastern region of the province of ontario canada and israel seed capital s portfolio includes spearhead technologies concentric visions and companydna for more information on seed capital partners please visit URL about datapower technology datapower technology provides enterprises with intelligent xml aware network infrastructure to ensure unparalleled performance security and manageability of next generation protocols datapower s patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology powers the industry s first wirespeed xml network devices enabling secure high speed applications and xml web services founded in NUMBER datapower is now delivering its third generation of technology providing immediate return on technology investments to industry leading customers and partners datapower is privately held and based in cambridge ma investors include mobius venture capital seed capital partners and venrock associates contact datapower technology inc kieran taylor NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER kieran URL schwartz communications john moran heather chichakly NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER datapower URL steve kelly chairman and ceo during over twenty years in the technology industry steve kelly has built and managed global enterprise networks provided consulting services to fortune NUMBER businesses and been involved in the launch of several start ups prior to datapower kelly was an entrepreneur in residence at venrock associates and was co founder of castle networks where he led the company s sales service and marketing functions castle was acquired by siemens ag in NUMBER to create unisphere networks which was subsequently purchased by juniper networks kelly was an early contributor at cascade communications where he built and managed the company s core switching business cascade s annual revenues grew from NUMBER million to NUMBER million annually during kelly s tenure kelly also worked at digital equipment corporation where he managed and grew their corporate network to NUMBER NUMBER nodes in NUMBER countries the largest in the world at the time kelly has a b s in information systems from bentley college eugene kuznetsov founder president and cto eugene kuznetsov is a technology visionary that has been working to address enterprise xml issues since the late NUMBERs kuznetsov founded datapower technology inc in NUMBER to provide enterprises with an intelligent xml aware network infrastructure to support next generation applications prior to starting datapower kuznetsov led the java jit compiler effort for microsoft internet explorer for macintosh NUMBER NUMBER he was also part of the team which developed one of the first clean room java vm s this high speed runtime technology was licensed by some of the industry s largest technology companies including apple computer he has consulted to numerous companies and worked on a variety of hardware and software engineering problems in the areas of memory management power electronics optimized execution engines and application integration kuznetsov holds a b s in electrical engineering from mit steve willis vice president of advanced technology steve willis is an accomplished entrepreneur and a pioneer in protocol optimization prior to joining datapower willis was co founder and cto of argon networks a provider of high performance switching routers that was acquired by siemens ag in NUMBER to create unisphere networks unisphere was subsequently purchased by juniper networks before argon steve was vice president of advanced technology at bay networks now nortel networks where he led both ip and atm related technology development and managed a group that generated NUMBER patent applications developed a NUMBER mbps forwarding engine and led the specification of the atm forum s pnni routing protocol most notably steve was co founder original software director and architect for wellfleet communications a leading pioneer of multi protocol routers wellfleet was rated as the fastest growing company in the u s for two consecutive years by fortune magazine willis is currently a member of the institute of electrical and electronics engineers ieee and the internet research task force irtf routing research group willis has a b d i c in computer science from the university of massachusetts bill tao vice president of engineering with a vast understanding of network optimization technologies and extensive experience in lan and wan networking bill tao brings over NUMBER years of critical knowledge to lead datapower s engineering efforts prior to datapower tao was the vice president of engineering for sycamore networks developing a family of metro regional optical network switches he is also well acquainted with network optimization techniques as he was previously vice president of engineering at infolibria where he led development and software quality assurance engineering for a family of network caching products tao has held senior engineering positions at netedge proteon codex and wang tao received a b s in electrical engineering from the university of connecticut and an m s in computer science from the university of illinois kieran taylor director of product marketing kieran taylor has an accomplished record as a marketing professional industry analyst and journalist prior to joining datapower taylor was the director of product management and marketing for akamai technologies nasdaq akam as an early contributor at akamai he helped develop the company s initial positioning and led the technical development and go to market activities for akamai s flagship edgesuite service taylor s early contribution helped position the service provider to secure a NUMBER NUMBER billion ipo he has also held senior marketing management positions at nortel networks inc and bay networks taylor was previously an analyst at telechoice inc and the wide area networks editor for data communications a mcgraw hill publication taylor holds a b a in print journalism from the pennsylvania state university school of communications board of advisors mark hoover mark hoover is president and co founder of acuitive inc a start up accelerator with over NUMBER years experience in the networking industry hoover s expertise spans product development marketing and business development before launching acuitive hoover worked at at t bell laboratories at t computer systems synoptics and bay networks where he played a role in the development of key technologies such as NUMBER baset routing fddi atm ethernet switching firewall internet traffic management and edge wan switch industries george kassabgi currently vice president of engineering at bea systems mr kassabgi has held executive level positions in engineering sales and marketing and has spearheaded leading edge developments in the application server marketplace since NUMBER he is widely known for his regular speaking engagements at javaone as well as columns and contributions in javapro java developer s journal and other publications in addition to being a venerated java expert george kassabgi holds a patent on smartobject technology and authored the technical book progress vNUMBER marshall t rose marshall t rose runs his own firm dover beach consulting inc he formerly held the position of the internet engineering task force ietf area director for network management one of a dozen individuals who oversaw the internet s standardization process rose is the author of several professional texts on subjects such as internet management electronic mail and directory services which have been published in four languages he is well known for his implementations of core internet technologies such as pop smtp and snmp and osi technologies such as x NUMBER and ftam rose received a phd in information and computer science from the university of california irvine in NUMBER ,0
on NUMBER aug NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER rohit khare wrote datapower delivers xml acceleration device by scott tyler shafer august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am pt intel also had a similar device a couple of years ago netstructure they have afaik abandoned it intel is still in the xml hardware game though on NUMBER NUMBER they spun off a company named tarari tarari develops hardware to check the headers of ip packets tarari calls this layer NUMBER processing atop the osi model from what i can tell tarari plans to combine virus scanning and xml acceleration into a single hardware device ,0
hardware acceleration for ssl makes sense since pki can slow down a transaction by as much as NUMBER NUMBER fold per this article xml formatting only increases doc size by about NUMBER fold i m not sure there are enough powers of ten in there to justify hardware acceleration expect the next major release from datapower to be the revolutionary new email chip allows you to offload the sending and receiving of email messages onto dedicated hardware while you get on w more important things like listening to mpNUMBERs best paul sholtz original message from rohit khare to fork URL sent NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject datapower announces xml in silicon no analysis yet don t know what to make of it yet but here s the raw bits for all to peruse and check out what s really going on best rohit datapower delivers xml acceleration device by scott tyler shafer august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am pt datapower technology on monday unveiled its network device designed specifically to process xml data unlike competing solutions that process xml data in software datapower s device processes the data in hardware a technology achievement that provides greater performance according to company officials the new device dubbed datapower xaNUMBER xml accelerator is the first in a family of products expected from the cambridge mass based startup the datapower family is based on a proprietary processing core technology called xgNUMBER that does the analysis parsing and processing of the xml data according to steve kelly ceo of datapower the xaNUMBER accelerator was conceived to meet the steady adoption of xml the anticipated future proliferation of web services and as a means to share data between two businesses our vision is to build out an xml aware infrastructure kelly said the xaNUMBER is the first of a family kelly explained that converting data into xml increases the file size up to NUMBER times this he said makes processing the data very taxing on application servers datapower believes an inline device is the best alternative in addition to the large file sizes security is also of paramount importance in the world of xml today s firewalls are designed to inspect http traffic only kelly said a soap packet with xml will go straight through a firewall firewalls are blind to xml today future products in datapowers family will focus more specifically on security especially as web services proliferate kelly said according to datapower most existing solutions to offload xml processing are homegrown and done in software an approach the company itself tried initially and found to be inadequate with regards to speed and security after trying the software path the company turned to creating a solution that would process xml in hardware our xgNUMBER execution core converts xml to machine code said kelly adding that to his knowledge no other company s solution does kelly said in the next few months he expects the market to be flooded with technologies that claim to do xml processing claims that he believes will be mostly false other content aware switches such as ssl secure socket layer accelerators and load balancers look at the first NUMBER bytes of a packet while the xaNUMBER provides deeper packet inspection looking at NUMBER NUMBER bytes and thus enabling greater processing of xml data kelly explained the NUMBERu high network device has been tested against a large collection of xml and xsl data types and can learn new flavors of the markup language as they pass through the device the xaNUMBER can be deployed in proxy mode behind a firewall and a load balancer and it will inspect all traffic that passes and will identify and process those packets that are xml kelly said in addition to proxy mode the device can also be used as an application co processor this deployment method gives administrators more granular control over what data is inspected and the application server itself controls the device datapower is not the only company chasing this emerging market startup sarvega based in burr ridge ill introduced the sarvega xpe switch in may and earlier this month tarari an intel spin off launched with a focus on content processing and acceleration the datapower device is now available priced starting at NUMBER NUMBER the company has announced one customer to date and says the product is in field trails at a number of other enterprises datapower has been addressing enterprise networking needs since it was founded in early NUMBER by eugene kuznetsov a technology visionary who foresaw the adverse effects xml and other next generation protocols would have on enterprise networks long before industry interest in xml grew kuznetsov assembled a team of world class m i t engineers and designed the industry s first solutions to address the unique requirements for processing xml the first such solution was a software interpreter called dgxt this software based approach to xml processing is still licensed by many companies for use in their own products today leveraging the detailed knowledge and customer experience gained from developing software based accelerators kuznetsov s team raised the bar and designed a system for processing xml in purpose built hardware in NUMBER datapower s effort produced xml generation three xgNUMBER the industry s fastest technology for xml processing bar none today xgNUMBER technology powers the industry s first wire speed xml network devices enabling secure high speed applications and xml web services while other companies are just now marketing first versions of products datapower is delivering its third generation of technology providing an immediate return on technology investments to industry leading customers and partners datapower s m i t heritage is complemented by a management team that brings decades of experience in the networking and computing industries drawing veteran leaders from several successful companies including akamai argon cascade castle networks sycamore and wellfleet datapower technology secures NUMBER NUMBER million in funding venrock associates mobius venture capital and seed capital back pioneer in xml aware networking for web services cambridge mass july NUMBER NUMBER datapower technology inc the leading provider of xml aware network infrastructure today announced that it has secured NUMBER NUMBER million in series b financing investors for this round include venrock associates mobius venture capital and seed capital partners michael tyrrell of venrock bill burnham of mobius and jeff fagnan of seed capital have joined datapower s board of directors datapower will use this funding to accelerate development marketing and sales of the company s breakthrough technology for xml aware networking founded in NUMBER datapower invented the world s first intelligent xml networking devices capable of transforming xml traffic and transactions at the wire speed enterprises need to effectively embrace web services and other xml centric initiatives datapower s solutions are based on its patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology enterprises are adopting xml at rapid rate to facilitate inter and intra company communications but their network infrastructure is ill prepared to support the requirements of this new traffic type datapower s xml acceleration devices enable the wirespeed processing of xml that is required to support next generation enterprise applications said eugene kuznetsov cto and founder of datapower technology datapower gives companies the ability to use xml that s critical to web services projects without sacrificing an ounce of performance a single datapower acceleration engine delivers the processing power of NUMBER servers breaking the performance bottleneck associated with xml processing and delivering an extraordinary return on investment in addition the datapower platform provides enhanced xml security protection against xml based denial of service attacks connection of e business protocols for incompatible xml data streams load balancing between back end servers and real time statistics reports in the post bubble economy technology investment decisions require laser focused scrutiny datapower s patent pending technology addresses a very real and growing pain point for enterprises said michael tyrrell of venrock associates by turbo charging their networks with datapower s unique xml aware networking technology companies will be free to adopt next generation web services without encountering performance and security pitfalls we looked long and hard for a company capable of addressing the rapidly growing problems surrounding xml message processing performance and security said bill burnham of mobius venture capital datapower is on their third generation of technology their patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology was quite simply the single most compelling technology solution we have seen to date xml is not a nice to have it is a must have for enterprises serious about optimizing application efficiency since NUMBER datapower has been developing solutions to facilitate enterprise use of xml and web services said jeff fagnan of seed capital partners datapower s xml acceleration devices are a key requirement for enterprises that rely on xml for mission critical applications about venrock associates venrock associates was founded as the venture capital arm of the rockefeller family and continues a tradition of funding entrepreneurs that now spans over seven decades laurance s rockefeller pioneered early stage venture financing in the NUMBERs with over NUMBER investments over a span of more than NUMBER years the firm has an established a track record of identifying and supporting promising early stage technology based enterprises as one of most experienced venture firms in the united states venrock maintains a tradition of collaboration with talented entrepreneurs to establish successful enduring companies venrock s continuing goal is to create long term value by assisting entrepreneurs in building companies from the formative stages their consistent focus on information technology and life sciences related opportunities provides a reservoir of knowledge and a network of contacts that have proven to be a catalyst for the growth of developing organizations venrock s investments have included checkpoint software usinternetworking caliper technologies illumina niku doubleclick media metrix NUMBERcom intel and apple computer with offices in new york city cambridge ma and menlo park ca venrock is well positioned to respond to opportunities in any locale for more information on venrock associates please visit URL about mobius venture capital mobius venture capital formerly softbank venture capital is a NUMBER NUMBER billion u s based private equity venture capital firm managed by an unparalleled team of former ceos and entrepreneurs technology pioneers senior executives from major technology corporations and leaders from the investment banking community mobius venture capital specializes primarily in early stage investments in the areas of communications systems software and services infrastructure software and services professional services enterprise applications healthcare informatics consumer and small business applications components and emerging technologies mobius venture capital combines its technology expertise and broad financial assets with the industry s best entrepreneurs to create a powerhouse portfolio of over NUMBER of the world s leading high technology companies mobius venture capital can be contacted by visiting their web site URL about seed capital partners seed capital partners is an early stage venture fund affiliated with softbank corporation one of the world s leading internet market forces seed capital manages funds focused primarily on companies addressing internet enabled business to business digital information technology opportunities which are located in the northeastern u s the southeastern region of the province of ontario canada and israel seed capital s portfolio includes spearhead technologies concentric visions and companydna for more information on seed capital partners please visit URL about datapower technology datapower technology provides enterprises with intelligent xml aware network infrastructure to ensure unparalleled performance security and manageability of next generation protocols datapower s patent pending xml generation three xgNUMBER technology powers the industry s first wirespeed xml network devices enabling secure high speed applications and xml web services founded in NUMBER datapower is now delivering its third generation of technology providing immediate return on technology investments to industry leading customers and partners datapower is privately held and based in cambridge ma investors include mobius venture capital seed capital partners and venrock associates contact datapower technology inc kieran taylor NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER kieran URL schwartz communications john moran heather chichakly NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER datapower URL steve kelly chairman and ceo during over twenty years in the technology industry steve kelly has built and managed global enterprise networks provided consulting services to fortune NUMBER businesses and been involved in the launch of several start ups prior to datapower kelly was an entrepreneur in residence at venrock associates and was co founder of castle networks where he led the company s sales service and marketing functions castle was acquired by siemens ag in NUMBER to create unisphere networks which was subsequently purchased by juniper networks kelly was an early contributor at cascade communications where he built and managed the company s core switching business cascade s annual revenues grew from NUMBER million to NUMBER million annually during kelly s tenure kelly also worked at digital equipment corporation where he managed and grew their corporate network to NUMBER NUMBER nodes in NUMBER countries the largest in the world at the time kelly has a b s in information systems from bentley college eugene kuznetsov founder president and cto eugene kuznetsov is a technology visionary that has been working to address enterprise xml issues since the late NUMBERs kuznetsov founded datapower technology inc in NUMBER to provide enterprises with an intelligent xml aware network infrastructure to support next generation applications prior to starting datapower kuznetsov led the java jit compiler effort for microsoft internet explorer for macintosh NUMBER NUMBER he was also part of the team which developed one of the first clean room java vm s this high speed runtime technology was licensed by some of the industry s largest technology companies including apple computer he has consulted to numerous companies and worked on a variety of hardware and software engineering problems in the areas of memory management power electronics optimized execution engines and application integration kuznetsov holds a b s in electrical engineering from mit steve willis vice president of advanced technology steve willis is an accomplished entrepreneur and a pioneer in protocol optimization prior to joining datapower willis was co founder and cto of argon networks a provider of high performance switching routers that was acquired by siemens ag in NUMBER to create unisphere networks unisphere was subsequently purchased by juniper networks before argon steve was vice president of advanced technology at bay networks now nortel networks where he led both ip and atm related technology development and managed a group that generated NUMBER patent applications developed a NUMBER mbps forwarding engine and led the specification of the atm forum s pnni routing protocol most notably steve was co founder original software director and architect for wellfleet communications a leading pioneer of multi protocol routers wellfleet was rated as the fastest growing company in the u s for two consecutive years by fortune magazine willis is currently a member of the institute of electrical and electronics engineers ieee and the internet research task force irtf routing research group willis has a b d i c in computer science from the university of massachusetts bill tao vice president of engineering with a vast understanding of network optimization technologies and extensive experience in lan and wan networking bill tao brings over NUMBER years of critical knowledge to lead datapower s engineering efforts prior to datapower tao was the vice president of engineering for sycamore networks developing a family of metro regional optical network switches he is also well acquainted with network optimization techniques as he was previously vice president of engineering at infolibria where he led development and software quality assurance engineering for a family of network caching products tao has held senior engineering positions at netedge proteon codex and wang tao received a b s in electrical engineering from the university of connecticut and an m s in computer science from the university of illinois kieran taylor director of product marketing kieran taylor has an accomplished record as a marketing professional industry analyst and journalist prior to joining datapower taylor was the director of product management and marketing for akamai technologies nasdaq akam as an early contributor at akamai he helped develop the company s initial positioning and led the technical development and go to market activities for akamai s flagship edgesuite service taylor s early contribution helped position the service provider to secure a NUMBER NUMBER billion ipo he has also held senior marketing management positions at nortel networks inc and bay networks taylor was previously an analyst at telechoice inc and the wide area networks editor for data communications a mcgraw hill publication taylor holds a b a in print journalism from the pennsylvania state university school of communications board of advisors mark hoover mark hoover is president and co founder of acuitive inc a start up accelerator with over NUMBER years experience in the networking industry hoover s expertise spans product development marketing and business development before launching acuitive hoover worked at at t bell laboratories at t computer systems synoptics and bay networks where he played a role in the development of key technologies such as NUMBER baset routing fddi atm ethernet switching firewall internet traffic management and edge wan switch industries george kassabgi currently vice president of engineering at bea systems mr kassabgi has held executive level positions in engineering sales and marketing and has spearheaded leading edge developments in the application server marketplace since NUMBER he is widely known for his regular speaking engagements at javaone as well as columns and contributions in javapro java developer s journal and other publications in addition to being a venerated java expert george kassabgi holds a patent on smartobject technology and authored the technical book progress vNUMBER marshall t rose marshall t rose runs his own firm dover beach consulting inc he formerly held the position of the internet engineering task force ietf area director for network management one of a dozen individuals who oversaw the internet s standardization process rose is the author of several professional texts on subjects such as internet management electronic mail and directory services which have been published in four languages he is well known for his implementations of core internet technologies such as pop smtp and snmp and osi technologies such as x NUMBER and ftam rose received a phd in information and computer science from the university of california irvine in NUMBER ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER rohit khare wrote datapower technology on monday unveiled its network device designed specifically to process xml data unlike competing solutions that process xml data in software datapower s device processes the data in hardware a technology achievement that provides greater performance according to company officials now to do this we all know they have to be cracking the strong crypto used on all transaction in order to process them so this has some preaty heavy implications unless it s just bs kelly explained that converting data into xml increases the file size up to NUMBER times this he said makes processing the data very taxing on application servers datapower believes an inline device is the best alternative or you could just not bloat it NUMBERx to begin with nah that was the whole point of xml afterall to sell more cpus much like oracle s use of java allows them to sell NUMBERx more cpu licenses due to the performance hit in addition to the large file sizes security is also of paramount importance in the world of xml today s firewalls are designed to inspect http traffic only kelly said a soap packet with xml will go straight through a firewall firewalls are blind to xml today again see above they _are_ claiming to decode the crypto our xgNUMBER execution core converts xml to machine code said kelly mmmmmmmmmmm machine code never a good idea adam l duncan beberg URL beberg URL ,0
politicians worldwide are discovering the internet what a great tool for fascism once you got the laws in place to solve that whole anonymity thing also i notice this story shows the truth the canadian government is really located in washington dc ottawa is just a branch office come to think of it the last story i posted about canada featured the head of its military speaking to us from military hq in palm beach florida owen will canada s isps become spies by declan mccullagh mailto declan mccullagh cnet com staff writer cnet URL august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm pt URL URL washington the canadian government is considering a proposal that would force internet providers to rewire their networks for easy surveillance by police and spy agencies a discussion draft URL released sunday also contemplates creating a national database of every canadian with an internet account a plan that could sharply curtail the right to be anonymous online the canadian government including the department of justice URL and industry canada URL wrote the NUMBER page blueprint as a near final step in a process that seeks to give law enforcement agents more authority to conduct electronic surveillance a proposed law based on the discussion draft is expected to be introduced in parliament late this year or in early NUMBER arguing that more and more communications take place in electronic form canadian officials say such laws are necessary to fight terrorism and combat even run of the mill crimes they also claim that by enacting these proposals canada will be following its obligations under the council of europe s cybercrime treaty URL which the country is in the process of considering if the discussion draft were to become law it would outlaw the possession of computer viruses authorize police to order internet providers to retain logs of all web browsing for up to six months and permit police to obtain a search warrant allowing them to find hidden electronic and digital devices that a suspect might be concealing in most circumstances a court order would be required for government agents to conduct internet monitoring canada and the united states are nonvoting members of the council of europe and representatives from both countries police agencies have endorsed the controversial cybercrime treaty URL which has drawn protests from human rights activists and civil liberties groups of nearly NUMBER participating nations only albania has formally adopted URL or ratified the treaty michael geist URL a professor at the university of ottawa who specializes in e commerce law says that the justification for adopting such sweeping changes to canadian law seems weak it seems to me that the main justification they ve given for all the changes is that we want to ratify the cybercrime treaty and we need to make changes geist said to me that s not a particularly convincing argument if there are new powers needed for law enforcement authority make that case geist added that there s nothing in the document that indicates new powers are needed i don t know that there have been a significant number of cases where police have run into problems probably the most sweeping change the legal blueprint contemplates is compelling internet providers and telephone companies to reconfigure their networks to facilitate government eavesdropping and data retention orders the united states has a similar requirement called the communications assistance for law enforcement act URL but it applies only to pre internet telecommunications companies it is proposed that all service providers wireless wireline and internet be required to ensure that their systems have the technical capability to provide lawful access to law enforcement and national security agencies according to the proposal companies would be responsible for paying the costs of buying new equipment sarah andrews an analyst at the electronic privacy information center URL epic who specializes in international law says the proposal goes beyond what the cybercrime treaty specifies their proposal for intercept capability talks about all service providers not just internet providers andrews said the cybercrime treaty deals only with computer data epic opposes URL the cybercrime treaty saying it grants too much power to police and does not adequately respect privacy rights another section of the proposal says the canadian association of chiefs of police recommends the establishment of a national database with personal information about all canadian internet users the implementation of such a database would presuppose that service providers are compelled to provide accurate and current information the draft says gus hosein a visiting fellow at the london school of economics and an activist with privacy international calls the database a dumb idea immediately you have to wonder if you re allowed to use anonymous mobile phones or whether you re allowed to connect to the internet anonymously hosein said a representative for george radwanski URL canada s privacy commissioner said the office is reviewing the blueprint and does not have any comments on the paper as it stands comments on the proposal can be sent to la al URL mailto la al URL no later than nov NUMBER ,0
 i m not sure what you mean by let s you and him fight but it is important to remember that england was in control of ireland for NUMBER years exactly let s you and him fight is a way of dealing with troublesome populations by moving them next to one another so they give each other and not the man grief so by my understanding and you all will understand with tongue firmly in cheek ireland irish uppity barbarians overly fond of risings scots more uppity barbarians overly fond of risings why not plonk down a bunch of the latter next to the former and kill two birds with one stone israel ex ottomans uppity barbarians didn t they help kick out the ottomans zionists uppity sorts who aren t happy with perfectly good land in uganda why not plonk down a bunch of the latter next to the former and kill two birds with one stone but not india in which the muslims and hindus were originally intermixed to some degree but partioned due to their own conflict not due to english resettlement policy canada in which the french and english were already established and it was just the balance of power on the continent that determined events in the colonies the acadians got resettled but they don t seem to have been that good for picking fights with their neighbors so no one had them plonked down next door dave this works best with a populace who given one man one vote immediately deduce one less man one less vote eh magnan ,0
this is my netscape NUMBER NUMBER review o they finally got the email search speed back up to where it was in NUMBER NUMBER x o setting up user mail accounts doesn t have that really odd sometimes it lets me sometimes it doesn t problem that previous versions had o i still have to manually update all my address books by hand but at least it lets me import them as netscape NUMBER x address books there s not NUMBER x import as they just assume it works which it doesn t o the mail filters are still broken and have the same problem that i ve tried to report since NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER where you can t store a mail filter of the type age in days is greater than NUMBER or some number gawd i d really wish they d fix that freakin bug it s the single biggest annoyance that i have with netscape as it s one of the most effective anti spam tools that i have o webex doesn t support netscape NUMBER NUMBER and the plugin doesn t work which causes problems when you want to use webex to work on something with someone remotely i ve given up trying to report bugs and any changes to the source i send always get lost greg gregory alan bolcer cto work NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gbolcer at URL URL endeavors technology inc cell NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER frank bergmann wrote a more reasonable explication of the eu us differences according to some american journalist cited in a german magazine can someone help me is that the american public perceives the rest of the world basically as a thread against which you have to defend yourself using power this is not a correct assessment the american public couldn t care less however the us intelligence community correctly perceives a threat and it isn t the third world many european and other developed nations aggressively engage in covert operations against american interests its been going on for years and isn t even news things have stepped up in recent years and the us dod is none too pleased for better or worse the us is relatively good at that game too as with most backwater wars they are proxies for the interests of the big players find a current list of the top intelligence threats to the us you ll find that half the countries on that list are european most people are unaware of how aggressive these things have gotten in recent years on the other hand the europeans are used to the peace of their cozy post war system where external security is not an issue all security threads can be resolved by giving money to the threatening people and to integrate them into the wealthy sphere balkan palestinians bullshit the european governments ruthlessly suppress real opposition obviously some more than others us specops are often brought in to do dirty work inside europe for european governments usually with government advisors along for the mission i ve always wondered what the deal was such that we got involved at all the point being that we ve acted as assassins for european governments inside their borders against their own citizens under the auspices of those governments and in recent years not ancient history i know specop guys who left the military specifically because of the circumstances of some of these missions while they were posted for that duty i m certainly glad i was never assigned missions in that theater because there is a lot of covert nastiness going on in nominally friendly european democracies regardless giving money to people that threaten you has never created meaningful peace in the history of civilization we call it extortion under any other guise a lot of the current eu us issues can be explained by this difference of perception such as the current american unilateralism nobody wants to help us the american arrogance towards europe they don t want to do anything so why should we ask them and the growing rejection of the american policy in europe they want to abolish the law europe is looking increasingly like a basket case whatever problems the us is having these days europe looks worse and is going downhill faster why the us would want to emulate european behavior or the european way of doing things is beyond me the us asking for major policy advice from europe is like asking a quack for medical advice i really don t see what is wrong with unilateral anyway why should anyone join a stampede that is heading for a cliff i hope the incessant knee jerk conformist screeching that americans see coming from europe doesn t actually represent the views of europeans for various reasons i m not exactly a cheerleader for the us government but the premises of the argument against them here are lame my personal point is that few americans percentage of overall population have ever left their country while even german construction workers regularly spend their holidays in spain so i m not surprised that paranoia is growing i m betting you are underestimating the actual percentage the vast majority of people i know have lived worked and traveled outside the country at one time or another and i doubt europeans have traveled anywhere near as much in the western hemisphere as americans have despite the best efforts of france europe is still not the center of the universe i ll throw you a bone though most americans do consider europe to be drifting into irrelevancy and therefore ignore it but from the perspective of an american how could you not look at it this way the impact of europe on america has diminished greatly over the years i love the smell of euro chauvinism in the morning first you assume that the north american continent is ethnically and culturally homogenous anybody that has actually traveled throughout north america knows this isn t true there are more than five major and very distinct cultures and societies in the us alone never mind the hundreds of diverse regional sub populations some of which are truly foreign apparently europeans confuse speaking the same language with having the same culture that would be like saying mexico is culturally identical to spain because they nominally speak the same language a wyoming rancher has almost nothing in common culturally or socially with your average person living in san francisco despite speaking the same language and nominally living in the same country if i want to visit a wildly different culture for the holidays i ll go to oakland new orleans or similar they are far more different from where i live than some countries i ve traveled to and a lot of these places are farther from where i live than spain is from germany second the state i live in is the size of germany when i travel to a neighboring state which i do regularly how is this not equivalent in fact i probably travel much farther for the holidays than your german construction workers if you look at the eu as a single country only then does your analogy become comparable what kind of ridiculous superiority do europeans get from having relatively tiny countries in truth i find europe to be about as culturally homogeneous as the us there are a lot of cultural similarities across the eu with relatively minor local deviations that vary with distance in ways very similar to the us the only real difference is that europeans have dozens of different languages which is hardly something i would call an advantage although there are a couple parts of the us where i can t understand a word they are saying either james rogers jamesr URL ,0
i got to see powell talk in march NUMBER at the beginning of his reign at the fcc he said they were going to take a real hands off approach so it s funny that they would blame the regulators for causing the collapse one thing he did get right is that he wasn t worried that the us was behind europe in the wireless licensing spectrum this is something very prescient in that most of those licensors have had to eat their lunch over the huge licensing costs they paid for very little benefit his legacy was is supposed to be rethinking the fcc s role to stay out of the way in this period of business innovation in the wireless space as he didn t want the government forcing business models onto the private sector his full transcript is here NUMBER interestingly enough i got to see his speech in person as he was part of the whole ctia NUMBER las vegas keynote series of speakers clay and i hoped a flight out of ontario to las vegas to do demo support for craig barrett NUMBER his message was that there s no difference between wired and wireless internet it s all the same thing instead of scalable networks we should be thinking about scalable content using magi he showed sending a blue man tv commercial from a desktop to a laptop to an ipaq to a color smartphone with the content scaling back for each target platform the best part of the whole trip wasn t hobnobbing at all but really the fact that the venetian had ran out of rooms they decided to put us up in one of their NUMBER NUMBER night high roller rooms they put clay in one and me in another the venetian is known for having the largest hotel rooms anywhere but these ones were bigger than my whole house NUMBER greg NUMBER URL NUMBER URL rohit khare wrote i can t believe i actually read a laugh out loud funny profile of the fcc commissioner fer crissakes so the following article comes recommended a fine explanation of michael powell s extraordinary equivocation on the other hand i can also agree with werbach s werblog entry rohit a trip to f c c world nicholas lemann has a piece in the new yorker this week about fcc chairman michael powell it s one of the first articles i ve seen that captures some of powell s real personality and the way he s viewed in washington unfortunately lemann ends by endorsing conventional political wisdom after describing how powell isn t really a fire breathing ideological conservative he concludes that in essence powell favors the inumbent local bell telephone companies while a democratic fcc would favor new entrants i know that s not how powell sees the world and though i disagree with him on many issues i think he s right to resist the old dichotomy the telecom collapse should be a humbling experience for anyone who went through it the disaster wasn t the regulators fault as some conservatives argue but something clearly went horribly wrong and policy makers should learn from that experience contrary to lemann s speculation the upstart carriers won t be successful in a gore administration because it s too late virtually all of them are dead and wall street has turned off the capital tap for the foreseeable future some may survive but as small players rather than world dominators the battle between clecs and rbocs that lemann so astutely parodies is old news the next important battle in telecom will be between those who want to stay within the traditional boxes and those who use different models entirely that s why open broadband networks and open spectrum are so important whatever the regulatory environment there is going to be consolidation in telecom those left out in that consolidation will face increasing pressure to create new pipes into the home or slowly die the victors in the consolidation game will cut back on innovation and raise prices which will create further pressure for alternatives lemann is right that policy making looks much drier and more ambiguous on the ground than through the lens of history but he s wrong in thinking that telecom s future will be something like its past friday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am comments NUMBER URL the chairman by nicholas lemann he s the other powell and no one is sure what he s up to new yorker october NUMBER NUMBER last year my middle son in eighth grade and encountering his first fairly serious american history course indignantly reported that the whole subject was incomprehensible i was shocked what about gettysburg and the declaration of independence and the selma to montgomery march just look at my textbook he said and when i did i saw his point his class had got up to the eighteen forties what i expected was a big beefing up of the roles of sacagawea and crispus attucks and in deed there was some of that but the main difference between my son s text and that of my own childhood was that somebody had made the disastrous decision to devote most of it to what had actually happened in american history there were pages and pages on tariffs and bank charters and reciprocal trade agreements i skipped ahead past the civil war hoping for easier going only to encounter currency floats and the regulation of freight rates only a few decades into the twentieth century did it become possible to see the federal government s main function as responding to dramatic crises and launching crusades for social justice instead of attempting to referee competing claims from economic interests even now if one were to reveal what really goes on behind the pretty speeches and the sanctimonious hearings in washington what you d find is thousands of lawyers and lobbyists madly vying for advantage not so much over the public as over each other agribusiness versus real estate banks versus insurance companies and so on the arena in which this competition mainly takes place is regulatory agencies and commissions and the congressional committees that supervise them it s an insider s game less because the players are secretive than because the public and the press encouraged by the players who speak in jargon can t get themselves interested one corner of washington might be called f c c world for the federal communications commission f c c world has perhaps five thousand denizens they work at the commission itself at the house and senate commerce committees and at the washington offices of the companies that the commission regulates they read communications daily subscription price NUMBER NUMBER a year and every year around christmastime they grumblingly attend the chairman s dinner at a washington hotel where the high point of the evening is a scripted supposedly self deprecating comedy routine by the commission s chairman of all the federal agencies and commissions the f c c is the one that americans ought to be most interested in after all it is involved with a business sector that accounts for about fifteen per cent of the american economy as well as important aspects of daily life telephone and television and radio and newspapers and the internet and right now f c c world is in if not a crisis at least a very soapy lather because a good portion of what the angry public thinks of as the corporate scandals concerns the economic collapse of companies regulated by the f c c qwest worldcom adelphia and global crossing among others are or were part of f c c world aol time warner is part of f c c world jack grubman the former salomon smith barney analyst who seems to have succeeded kenneth lay of enron as the embodiment of the corporate scandals is part of f c c world in the past two years companies belonging to f c c world have lost trillions of dollars in stock market valuation and have collectively served as a dead weight pulling down the entire stock market this year an alarmed and acerbic anonymous memorandum about the state of the f c c has been circulating widely within f c c world it evokes f c c world s feverish mood the f c c is fiddling while rome burns and suggests why nobody besides residents of f c c world has thought of the commission in connection with the corporate scandals the sentence i just quoted is followed by this explanation the ilecs appear likely to enter all l d markets within twelve months while losing virtually no residential customers to attackers since NUMBER and suffering about NUMBER market share loss in business lines to clecs it s a lot easier to think about evil c e o s than to decipher that even in good times f c c world pays obsessive attention to the commission s chairman in bad times the attention becomes especially intense and when the chairman is a celebrity f c c world devotes itself to full time chairman watching the current chairman michael powell is a celebrity at least by government official standards because he is the only son of colin powell the secretary of state unlike his father he has a kind of mesmerizing ambiguity which generates enormous and at times apoplectically toned speculation about who he really is and what he s really up to powell is young to be the head of a federal agency he is thirty nine and genially charming everybody likes him before becoming chairman he was for three years one of the f c c s five commissioners not only is he fluent in the f c c s incomprehensible patois he has a clintonesque love of the arcane details of communications policy he s always saying that he s an avid moderate and yet he has a rage inciting quality one of his predecessors as chairman reed hundt quoted in forbes compared powell to herbert hoover mark cooper of the consumer federation of america calls him radical and extreme just as often as he s accused of being a right wing ideologue powell gets accused of being paralytically cautious it ain t about singing kum ba yah around the campfire another former chairman william kennard says you have to have an answer one day last spring powell testifying before a senate subcommittee delivered an anodyne opening statement and the subcommittee s chairman ernest hollings of south carolina berated him you don t care about these regulations hollings said you don t care about the law or what congress sets down that s the fundamental that s the misgiving i have of your administration over there it just is amazing to me you just pell mell down the road and seem to not care at all i think you d be a wonderful executive vice president of a chamber of commerce but not a chairman of a regulatory commission at the government level are you happy in your job extremely powell said with an amiable smile one cannot understand powell s maddening effect at least on democrats and liberal activists without understanding not just the stated purpose of the commission he chairs but also its real purpose the f c c was created by congress in NUMBER but it existed in prototype well before the new deal because it performs a function that is one of the classic easy cases for government intervention in the private economy making sure that broadcasters stick to their assigned spots on the airwaves its other original function was preventing american telephone telegraph the national monopoly phone company from treating its customers unfairly over the decades as f c c world grew up into a comfortable well established place the f c c segued into the role of industrial supervision its real purpose it was supposed to manage the competition among communications companies so that it didn t become too bloody by artfully deciding who would be allowed to enter what line of business in addition to looking out for the public s interest the commission more specifically protected the interests of members of congress many of whom regard the media companies in their districts as the single most terrifying category of interest group you can cross the local bank president and live to tell the tale but not the local broadcaster according to an oft told f c c world anecdote president clinton once blocked an attempt to allow television stations to buy daily newspapers in the same city because he said if the so and so who owned the anti clinton little rock democrat gazette had owned the leading tv station in little rock too clinton would never have become president f c c world may have been con tentious but it was settled too because all the reasonably powerful players had created secure economic niches for themselves then in the nineteen eighties the successful breakup of a t t by far the biggest and most important company the commission regulated deposited a thick additional sediment of self confidence onto the consciousness of f c c world a generation ago for most americans there was one local phone company one long distance company and one company that manufactured telephones which customers were not permitted to own and they were all the same company it was illegal to plug any device into a phone line by the mid nineteen nineties there were a dozen economically viable local phone companies a handful of national long distance companies competing to offer customers the lowest price and best service and stores everywhere selling telephone equipment from many manufacturers and millions of americans had a fax machine and a modem operating over the telephone lines a t t had argued for years that it was a natural monopoly requiring protection from economic competition and total control over its lines so much for that argument over the same period the f c c had assisted in the birth of cable television and cell phones and the internet it was the dream of federal agency success come true consumers vastly better served and the industry much bigger and more prosperous too the next big step was supposed to be the telecommunications act of NUMBER one of those massive endlessly lobbied over pieces of legislation which most people outside f c c world probably felt it was safe to ignore although the telecom act sailed under the rhetorical banner of modernization and deregulation its essence was a grand interest group bargain in which the local phone companies known to headline writers as baby bells and to f c c world as arbocks the pronounced version of rbocs or regional bell operating companies would be permitted to offer long distance service in exchange for letting the long distance companies and smaller new phone companies use their lines to compete for customers consumers would win because for the first time they would get the benefits of competition in local service while getting even more competition than they already had in long distance but the politics and economics of the telecom act which was shepherded through congress by vice president gore were just as important democrats saw the act as helping to reposition them as the technology party the party that brought the internet into every home created hundreds of thousands of jobs in new companies and not least set off an investment boom whose beneficiaries might become the party s new contributor base clinton s slogans about the information superhighway and building a bridge to the twenty first century which like all clinton slogans artfully sent different messages to different constituencies were the rhetorical correlates of the telecom act and gore s cruise to the presidency was supposed to be powered substantially by the act s success the f c c had a crucial role in all this the arbocks are rich aggressive politically powerful and generally republican though like all important interest groups they work with both parties they immediately filed lawsuits which wound up tying the hands of their new competitors in the local phone market for more than three years through rule making enforcement and litigation the f c c then headed by reed hundt who was gore s classmate at st albans was supposed to keep the arbocks in their cages so that not only long distance companies like a t t and mci worldcom but also a whole category of new companies see lecks the pronounced version of clecs or competitive local exchange carriers could emerge this entailed the regulatory equivalent of hand to hand combat the see leck is supposed to have access to the arbock s switching equipment the arbock won t give the seeleck a key to the room where it s kept so the see leck asks the f c c to rule that the arbock has to give it the key partly because hundt assured the see lecks and other new companies that he would protect them and partly because of the generally booming condition of the economy then investment capital flooded into the see lecks companies with names like winstar covad and teligent and into other telecommunications companies even not obviously related technology companies like cisco systems benefitted from the telecom boom demand for their products was supposed to come from the see lecks and other new players there would be no conflict between the interests of the new telecom companies and those of consumers as one of hundt s former lieutenants told me reed used to joke that my job was to make sure that all prices went down and all stocks went up the years following the passage of the telecom act were the peak of the boom wall street had its blood up and that meant not just more startups but also more mergers of existing communications companies time warner and aol decided to throw in together and a t t and comcast and so on surely worldcom and the other telecom bad guys believed that their self dealing stock overselling and creative accounting would go unnoticed because the market was so undiscriminating by the time the outcome of the NUMBER presidential election had been determined the telecom crash was well under way nonetheless the chairmanship of the f c c remained one of the best jobs in terms of influence and visibility available to a career government regulator three republicans emerged as candidates powell who was a commissioner harold furchtgott roth the farthest to the right commissioner and patrick wood the head of the texas public utility commission and as such a george w bush guy in texas however wood had crossed the most powerful person in the arbock camp edward whitacre the c e o of s b c communications which is headquartered in san antonio this meant that the arbocks didn t want wood as head of the f c c because he might be too pro see leck wood is now the head of the federal energy regulatory commission michael powell had to signal the arbocks that he wasn t as threatening as wood while also signalling the conservative movement that he was only negligibly farther to the left than furchtgott roth powell did this deftly for example in december of NUMBER he appeared before a conservative group called the progress freedom foundation and gave a very michael powell speech whimsical intellectual and free associative biblical history joseph schumpeter moore s law that began by making fun of the idea that the f c c should try to keep new telecom companies alive in the wake of the NUMBER act the f c c is often cast as the grinch who stole christmas powell said like the whos down in who ville who feast on who pudding and rare who roast beast the communications industry was preparing to feast on the deregulatory fruits it believed would inevitably sprout from the act s fertile soil but this feast the f c c grinch did not like in the least so it is thought thus powell was indicating that if he became chairman he didn t expect to administer first aid to the see lecks as part of the job he was appointed to the chairmanship on the first day of the bush administration twenty months into the administration nearly all the see lecks are dead or dying nearly all long distance companies not just worldcom are in serious trouble cable companies have lost half their value satellite companies are staggering the crash has had an automatically concentrating effect because as new companies die the existing companies market share increases and if the existing companies are in good shape financially they have the opportunity to pick up damaged companies at bargain prices during the bush administration as the financial carnage in communications has worsened the communications industry has moved in the direction of more concentration if the bells wind up protecting their regional monopolies in local phone service and if they also merge the country will be on its way to having a national duopoly in local service verizon in the east and s b c in the west and these companies could dominate long distance as well because of the poor health of the long distance companies the cable business also seems close to having two dominant national companies aol time warner and comcast unlike the phone companies they don t have to share their wiring with other companies and so can more fully control what material they allow to enter people s homes as part of the complicated bargaining with interest groups that led to the NUMBER telecom act the limits on concentration in the radio industry were significantly loosened and in the past six years the number of radio station owners in the united states has been cut by twenty five per cent today a large portion of local and national radio news programming is supplied by a single company westwood one a subsidiary of viacom in this situation many democrats and liberals think the f c c should be hyperactive the superhero of government regulation springing to the rescue of both consumers and the communications industry it should try to breathe life into the see lecks and other new companies it should disallow mergers maintain ownership limits and otherwise restrain the forces of concentration it should use the government s money and muscle to get new technology especially fast internet connections into the homes of people who can t afford it at current market prices an analogy that a lot of people in f c c world make is between telecom and the middle east the clinton people blame the bloodshed on the bush people because they disengaged when they came into office and the bush people blame it on the clinton people because they raised too many expectations and stirred too many passions but michael powell s f c c has not been hyperactive powell has been conducting internal policy reviews and reforming the management of the f c c and waiting for the federal courts and the congress to send him signals in mid september powell finally initiated a formal review of the f c c s limits on media concentration this doesn t mean he has been inactive rather he has been active in a way that further infuriates his critics in a manner that smoothly blends the genial and the provocative he muses about whether the fundamental premises of f c c world really make sense while giving the impression that he s having the time of his life as chairman at his first press conference when he was asked what he was going to do about the digital divide that is economic inequality in access to the internet he said you know i think there is a mercedes divide i d like to have one and i can t afford one at the national cable telecommunications association convention in chicago powell following a troupe of tumblers to the stage interrupted his walk to the podium to perform a somersault not long ago i went to see powell in his office at the f c c until NUMBER when the commission moved to a new building in southwest washington near the city s open air fish market f c c world was at the western edge of downtown where everybody would encounter everybody else at a few familiar restaurants and bars today the f c c building looks like the office of a mortgage company in a suburban office park even the chairman s suite though large is beige carpeted and fluorescent powell is a bulky man who wears gold rimmed glasses and walks with a pronounced limp the result of injuries he suffered in a jeep accident in germany in NUMBER when he was an army officer because of the accident he left the army and went to law school where he became entranced with conservative ideas about regulation particularly the idea that the government rather than trying to correct the flaws of the market before the fact prophylactically as he likes to say should wait till the flaws manifest themselves and then use antitrust litigation to fix them he worked briefly at a corporate law firm and then became a protégé of joel klein the head of the antitrust division of the clinton justice department and the man who led the government s legal case against microsoft he was recently appointed chancellor of the new york public school system it testifies to powell s political skill that he is probably the only high official in the bush administration who not only served in the clinton administration but also maintains close ties to bush s nemesis senator john mccain of arizona one of the things about powell that annoy people is his enduring love of law school it s sort of like a law school study session over there one democratic former commissioner said as if to confirm the charge powell when i arrived introduced me to four law students summer interns at the commission whom he d invited to sit in i began by asking powell whether he agreed with the founding assumptions of the f c c for example could private companies have apportioned the airwaves among themselves without the government being involved i think we ll never know powell said i don t think it s an automatically bad idea the way some people will argue land is probably the best analogue we don t seize all the land in the united states and say the government will issue licenses to use land if my neighbor puts a fence one foot onto my property line there s a whole body of law about what i can do about that including whether i can tear it down if a wireless company was interfering with another wireless company it s a similar proposition there are scholars who argue indeed the famous ronald coase treatise that won the nobel prize was about this that spectrum policy is lunacy the market could work this out in the kinds of ways that we re accustomed to talking to powell was fun unlike most high government officials he doesn t seem to be invested in appearing dignified or commanding he slumps in his chair and fiddles with his tie and riffs he speaks in ironic air quotes he s like your libertarian friend in college who enjoyed staying up all night asking impertinent rhetorical questions about aspects of life that everybody else takes for granted but that he sees as sentimental or illogical after a while i asked him whether he thought his predecessors excitement about the NUMBER telecommunications act had been excessive i would start with a caveat powell said look i can t fault those judgments in and of themselves given the time and what people thought they were not the only ones who were hysterical about the opportunities but frankly i ve always been a little bit critical first of all anybody who works with the act knows that it doesn t come anywhere close to matching the hyperbole that was associated with it by the president on down about the kinds of things it s going to open up i mean i don t know what provisions are the information superhighway provisions or what provisions are so digitally oriented or some of the things that were a big part of the theatre of its introduction when one starts reading the details one searches often in vain for these provisions but nonetheless there was a rising dot com excitement and an internet excitement and people thought this was historic legislation and it certainly was but we were sucking helium out of balloons with the kinds of expectations that were being bandied around and this is before the economy or the market even gets in trouble it was a dramatically exaggerated expectation by the leadership of the commission by politicians by the market itself by companies themselves it was a gold rush and led to some very detrimental business decisions ones that government encouraged by its policies frankly everybody wanted to see numbers go up on the board powell began imitating an imagined true believer in the telecom act i want to see ten competitors twenty competitors i want to see thirty per cent market share fifty per cent market share i want the bells to bleed then we ll know we ve succeeded now powell returned to being powell i think that expectation was astonishingly unrealistic in the short term they wanted to see it while they re there we were starting to get drunk on the juice we were drinking and the market was getting drunk on the juice we were drinking there s no question we went too soon too fast too many companies took on too much debt too fast before the market really had a product or a business model how could the telecom act have been handled better we could have chosen policies that were less hellbent on a single objective and were slightly more balanced and put more economic discipline in the system powell said money chased what seemed like government promised opportunity the problem with that is there s a morning after and we re in it and the problem is there is no short fix for this problem this debt is going to take years to bring down to a realistic level in some ways for short term gain we paid a price in long term stability powell went on to say that it might have turned out differently if there had been a more reasonable level of investment no we wouldn t have every home in america with competitive choice yet but we don t anyway i don t think it s the remonopolization of telephone service i don t buy that the bells will prosper but did anybody believe they wouldn t the part of the story that didn t materialize was that people thought so would mci worldcom and sprint other local phone companies he added hadn t materialized as viable businesses either and they never might everybody s always saying the regulators did this and this and this but candidly the story s quite the opposite i think the regulators bent over backward for six years to give them a chance conditions don t get that good except once every thirty years and it didn t happen so whatever the reason we re looking at a worldcom that s teetering we re looking at a long distance business that has had a rapid decline in its revenue base a t t is breaking itself up sprint has struggled could the f c c have done anything to make the long distance companies stronger at the f c c i think i ll just be blunt my political answer yes there s all kinds of things we can do at the margin to try to help but i can t find thirty billion dollars for worldcom somewhere i can t mitigate the impacts of an accounting scandal and an s e c investigation were i king it would be wonderful but i don t have those kinds of levers i don t know whether anybody does at some point companies are expected to run themselves in a way that keeps them from dying powell couldn t have made it much clearer that he doesn t think it s his responsibility to do anything about the telecom crash he has demonstrated his sure political touch by making accommodationist gestures in august for example five months after disbanding the f c c s accounting safeguards division powell announced that he was appointing a committee to study accounting standards in the communications industry but that shows that powell is better at riding out the storm than say harvey pitt his counterpart at the securities and exchange commission and does not mean that he plans to try to shore up the telecom industry i asked powell if it would bother him if for most people only one company provided cable television and only one provided local phone service yes he said it concerns us that there s one of each of those things but let s not diminish the importance of there being one of each of those things that still is a nice suite of communications capabilities even if they aren t direct analogues of each other anyway powell said before long the phone companies will be able to provide video service over their lines and the cable companies will provide data service over their lines so there will be more choice so yeah we have this anxiety we have one of everything the question is does it stay that way the concentration of ownership and the concentrated control of information did not appear to trouble powell either he said that people confuse bigness which brings many benefits with concentration which distorts markets if this were just economics it s easy if you were to say to me mike just worry about economic concentration we know how to do that the econometrics of antitrust i can tell you when a market s too concentrated and prices are going to rise the problem is other dimensions like political ideological sometimes emotional take the question of if everybody s controlling what you see the assumption there is that somehow there ll be this viewpoint a monolithic viewpoint pushed on you by your media and you won t get diversity i think that s a possibility i don t think it s nearly the possibility that s ascribed to it sometimes powell explained sometimes when we see very pointed political or parochial programming it gets attacked as unfair i see some of the same people who claim they want diversity go crazy when rush limbaugh exists they love diversity but somehow we should run howard stern off the planet if it has a point of view then it becomes accused of bias and then we have policies like here his tone went from ironic to sarcastic the fairness doctrine which seems to me like the antithesis of what i thought those people cared about so when somebody is pointed and opinionated we do all this stuff in the name of journalistic fairness and integrity or whatever to make them balance it out f c c world abounds in theories about michael powell one is that he can t make up his mind about how to address the crisis in the industries he regulates so he talks and talks and talks flamboyantly about the market in order to buy himself time another is that he s carrying water for the arbocks and the big cable companies another is that he is planning to run for the senate from virginia or to be appointed attorney general in a second bush term and doesn t want to do anything at the f c c that would diminish his chances another is that he s waiting to move until there is more consensus on some course of action so that he doesn t wind up going first and getting caught in the crossfire between the arbocks and the cable companies and the television networks in f c c world this is known as the powell doctrine of telecom after colin powell s idea that the united states should never commit itself militarily without a clear objective overwhelming force and an exit strategy and another is that he actually believes what he says and thinks the telecommunications crash is natural healthy and irreversible and more concentration would be just fine this is why elections matter reed hundt who isn t happy about what has become of his telecom act told me it s true that the f c c much more than say the war in afghanistan is a case in which a gore administration would be acting quite differently from the bush administration consumers might have noticed the difference by now but there s no question whether communications companies have noticed the arbocks are doing better against their internal rivals than they would have done if gore had won next election they ll help the party that helped them if the republicans win policy will tilt further in the arbocks favor if they lose perhaps the arbocks rivals the long distance companies and the telecommunications upstarts with their friends now in power will stage a comeback america s present is not unrecognizably different from america s past gregory alan bolcer cto work NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gbolcer at URL URL endeavors technology inc cell NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 begin forwarded message from ian andrew bell hello URL date wed oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm us pacific to mike URL cc foib URL subject politicos re bowling for columbine opens this friday michael why is it that people who consider voting in an election an inconvenience would go to see a movie to show support for its message don t get me wrong i think this is the case people will go to see your movie as much to be entertained and informed as they will to express their malice and discontent towards not only the present regime in america but also the corrupt empty shallow pantomime which cast them into power in reality today the voting that takes place via the act of consumption far outweighs the impact caused by people going to a booth and dimpling the appropriate chad or some other such convoluted act of free democratic expression why because in america they believe in dollars dollars don t lie in practise they are the last frontier of truth in america universally accepted as expressions of fear desire passion and need compared to the swing of the almighty buck and jeb bush knows this a hanging chad has only the nethermost meaning given that fact i modestly propose an entirely new though wholly logical extension to the current democratic system in place in america i propose we augment and effectively replace the electoral system with a political stock market we should accept that politicians are entrepreneurs just like any other businessperson in america and embrace this fact in building an economic system which truly reflects their intent a politician should issue a constant number of shares dependent upon his tenure in government those shares should be traded on an open exchange say the g r e e d short of course for the global realists electoral exchange democratic politicians we believe in will see their stocks rise higher as faith in their ability to maintain office grows as the truth about their embezzling campaign funds for weekend trips to maui with their interns is revealed of course their fortunes will fall this represents an opportunity for the market forces those same forces which you intend to harness to express your own personal protest to voice their opinion on the quality of america s governance during the intervening four years between elections elections themselves will in effect become meaningless as they are now since their outcome will be influenced by the stock price of each and every congressman senator and presidential candidate just think of the coverage that could be given on msnbc strom thurman strom news quotes was down NUMBER today on fears that his latest heart operation will render him unable to attend senate armed services committee meetings until november this would provide rejuvenating content to the econo political news sector which has found post economic bubble coverage to be both tiresome and deoressing the establishment of this new stock exchange would of course create jobs for newly unemployed and governmentally retrained it systems engineers who could after passing the electoral securities exam become floor traders this would also allow for a convenient and very public method by which candidates could raise capital in the public markets to support their multi billion dollar campaigns the requirement for the support of legions of spin doctors permanent campaign managers and investor relations personnel would also create jobs perhaps even a new practice for ernst young arthur anderson et al insider trading scandals and misleading revenue declarations would of course catch martha stewart as an unwitting beneficiary thus spreading her influence to politics dividends if there are any on record at the close of a politician s career could be paid to current shareholders based on the holdings pensions funds could provide the institutional investment support necessary to underpin even the biggest dogs among the beltway set union funds brokerages and even pump and dump houses could benefit from meteoric rises in conservative candidates running in the southeast and the bush governmet would be allowed to place social security bets where they really mattered investors who lose their retirement life savings and support could rest assured that they were indeed robbed by crooks rather than poor investors although there s no way to protect any of these for worldcom like crashes ambitious inspired district attorneys could file criminal suits against candidates and campaign managers who underperform expectations thus assuring investors that their logic was not faulty instead they were merely defrauded by crooks and thieves on the whole i believe the system could work i could certainly work as well as our beloved securities trading industry and given the american electoral system s success at effectively expressing the will of the people it certainly couldn t do any worse in the meantime mike i think i ll go see your movie and try to depose the president ian on wednesday october NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm michael moore s mailing list wrote october NUMBER NUMBER my film bowling for columbine opens this friday dear friends fans and fellow evildoers i am very happy and excited to tell you that this friday october NUMBER my new film bowling for columbine will open in new york and los angeles it is i promise the last thing the bushies want projected on the movie screens across america this week the film is first and foremost a devastating indictment of the violence that is done in our name for profit and power and no one in all the advance screenings i have attended has left the theatre with anything short of rage i truly believe this film has the potential to rock the nation and get people energized to do something this is not good news for junior and company not when they are trying to drag us into another war not when a crazed sniper is exercising his constitutional right to own a high powered rifle not when john ashcroft is still prohibiting the fbi from looking through the gun background check files to see if any of the NUMBER hijackers or their associates purchased any weapons prior to NUMBER NUMBER because that we are told would violate these terrorists sacred second amendment rights yes i believe this movie can create a lot of havoc but i will need all of you to help me do this are you game last february NUMBERth i wrote to tell you about a book i had written and how the publisher had decided to dump it because they were afraid to publish anything critical of bush after NUMBER NUMBER i appealed to you to save stupid white men from the shredder and to go out and buy it i promised you would not regret it and that the book would not only be a great read but an important organizing tool in gumming up the plans of george w bush within NUMBER hours the book went to NUMBER on the amazon best seller list by the fifth day the book was already into its NUMBERth printing the publisher was torn between its desire to kill the book or make a wad of money greed won out and this sunday the book enters its NUMBERst week on the new york times best seller list and its NUMBERnd printing this is all because of you my crazy and loyal friends you made this happen against all the odds now i would like to ask you again to help me with my latest work bowling for columbine it s a movie that many critics have already called my best film to date they may be right it is certainly the most provocative thing i have ever done i have spent three years on it and i have to say it cuts deeper harder and funnier that anything i have given you so far the movie opens this friday in new york and los angeles and then in NUMBER more cities next week how it does in these first ten cities will determine whether or not the rest of the country gets to see it that is the nutty way our films are released if it doesn t have a big opening weekend you can kiss the film good bye therefore this weekend this film must be seen by millions of americans can you help me make that happen bowling for columbine is not a film simply about guns or school shootings that is only the starting point for my NUMBER hour journey into the dark soul of a country that is both victim and master of an enormous amount of violence both at home and around the world with this movie i have broadened my canvas to paint a portrait of our nation at the beginning of the NUMBERst century a nation that seems hell bent on killing first and asking questions later it is a movie about the state sponsored acts of violence and terrorism against our own poor and how we have created a culture of fear that is based on the racial dilemma we continue to ignore and it s a devastating comedy this film is going to upset some pretty big apple carts no film has ever said the things i am saying in bowling for columbine i expect to be attacked i expect certain theatres will not show it for fear of retribution i expect that this movie will be a bitter pill for many to swallow this is why i need your help movies live or die based on what happens at the box office the first weekend of its release i need you if you live in the new york or l a area to go see bowling for columbine this friday and saturday and take as many family members and friends with you as possible i guarantee you will not be disappointed and you may just see one of the best films of the year monday night in times square bowling for columbine had its premiere the crowd was amazing as it was this past saturday night at the chicago film festival the audience kept laughing or hooting or applauding so loud throughout the film that it was hard to hear the next line the hate mail the threats the promises of retribution have already started to roll in to the distributor of this movie united artists they are not backing down but how long will this last i need all of you in the new york tri state and southern california areas to go see bowling for columbine this weekend the rest of you can see it in a couple of weeks when it comes to your town a strong opening not only means that the rest of america will see this film it means that a good number of people who see it are going to leave the film angry enough to get active and get involved if it does poorly i will have a difficult time finding the funding for the movie i want to make next a film about NUMBER NUMBER and how bush is using that tragic day as a cover for his right wing agenda don t let that happen don t let the nra have one more success by stopping the wider distribution of this movie and together let us not remain silent in our opposition to bush s phony war against iraq if you live in new york you can see it at the lincoln plaza the sunshine and the loews NUMBERth st in l a you can catch it at the sunset NUMBER the westwood regent laemmle sunset laemmle towncenter encino landmark rialto pasadena and regal university irvine also please forward this to your other friends and tell them to go see bowling for columbine this weekend and finally don t miss our new website URL thank you for your help with this i feel so honored and privileged to have so many people interested in my work last january i was getting NUMBER NUMBER hits a month on my website last month i got NUMBER million hits this alone speaks volumes about the vast majority all of us belong to who are sick and tired of what is going on and are longing for an alternative source of information i hope that you enjoy bowling for columbine thank you again yours michael moore if you wish to be be unsubscribed from this mailing list please click the link below and follow the instructions URL ,0
 from robert elz kre munnari oz au date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER date fri NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER aNUMBERbcNUMBER deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com interesting i don t think this was my bug it appears that msg_change was asked to change to message something like that is quite possible but perviously typing nonsense in didn t cause tracebacks and now it does and the traceback came from the sequence code perviously this would have just caused red messages in the status line complaining about my lousy typing that s probably what it should keep on doing the red part isn t important obviously tell me what keystroke made it happen so i can reproduce it and i ll see what i can do about it or if i can t i ll hand it off to brent chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from robert elz kre munnari oz au date sat NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com hmmm i assume you re going to report this to the nmh folks yes i will sometime after i look at the nmh sources and see what they have managed to break and why but we really want exmh to operate with all the versions of nmh that exist don t we the patch to have exmh do the right thing whether this bug exists or not is trivial so i d suggest including it patch follows i have no idea why the sequences were being added after the message list before not that it should make any difference to nmh or mh but since i stopped doing that the variable msgs isn t really needed any more rather than assigning pick msgs to msgs and then using msgs the code could just use pick msgs where msgs is now used this is just a frill though so i didn t change that i ll fix this in cvs this afternoon thanks chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 lately i ve got the feeling that exmh is getting slower and slower i just decided to check that vs reality and yes speed has left the scene somewhere between the release of NUMBER NUMBER and now i checked on a number of small messages in a big folder NUMBER msgs the delay of the next button has increased considerably NUMBER NUMBER release NUMBER NUMBER msec latest cvs NUMBER NUMBER msec frankly i think this is getting close to non acceptable since the user settings hasn t changed anybody have any ideas where performance disappeared anders _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lately i ve got the feeling that exmh is getting slower and slower i just decided to check that vs reality and yes speed has left the scene somewhere between the release of NUMBER NUMBER and now i checked on a number of small messages in a big folder NUMBER msgs the delay of the next button has increased considerably NUMBER NUMBER release NUMBER NUMBER msec latest cvs NUMBER NUMBER msec frankly i think this is getting close to non acceptable since the user settings hasn t changed anybody have any ideas where performance disappeared most likely in the added overhead of managing more sequences i m sure it can be tuned a bunch but as i m leaving for a vacation on friday and have plenty of real work to do i won t be able to do much until i get back i will look at all this when i get back but if you want to check into what s slow and fix things while i m gone my feelings won t be hurt chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
on mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm said i checked on a number of small messages in a big folder NUMBER msgs the delay of the next button has increased considerably NUMBER NUMBER release NUMBER NUMBER msec latest cvs NUMBER NUMBER msec i m not seeing a hit on next a quick just pound on next and watch the wall clock test shows me able to go through NUMBER messages in under NUMBER seconds so it s well under NUMBERms per switch but i m seeing a really piggy cpu spike NUMBER for a few seconds in the flist code of course it seems to be related to number of folders wc mail folders NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail folders it s particularly annoying because things just hose and hang for NUMBER seconds so when it hits you have a long latency before what you re doing actually happens NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER background_doperiodic flist NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER flist_findseqs reset NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER flistfindstart reset NUMBER active NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER reading home valdis mail exmh mh_sequences NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER exmh has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER unseen message in NUMBER folder NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in flaginner up iconup labelup NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER setting flag glyph to iconup NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER set flag state to up NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER reading home valdis mail list spams mh_sequences NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER list spams has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER unseen messages in NUMBER folders NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in flaginner up iconup labelup NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER reading home valdis mail trash mh_sequences NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER trash has NUMBER msgs in pseq NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER home valdis mail xemacs NUMBER not found NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER home valdis mail xemacs NUMBER not found NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER home valdis mail xemacs NUMBER not found NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER home valdis mail xemacs NUMBER not found NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pseq NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER writing home valdis mail xemacs mh_sequences NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER xemacs has NUMBER msgs in pseq NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER flist_done and it takes a hit even if there s no new mail NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER background_doperiodic flist NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER flist_findseqs reset NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER flistfindstart reset NUMBER active NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER flist_done NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER flist_findseqs end NUMBER microseconds per iteration i m perfectly willing to can opener that code and see where the cpu is going but only if nobody is slapping their forehead and mumbling about a brown paper bag bug valdis kletnieks computer systems senior engineer virginia tech ,0
 from valdis kletnieks URL date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i m perfectly willing to can opener that code and see where the cpu is going but only if nobody is slapping their forehead and mumbling about a brown paper bag bug as i mentioned in my email to anders it s certainly in my code and i don t have time to work on it right now so i would not be offended if you worked on it i just this moment found out that my partner has promised a few things would be done before my vacation that will require my efforts so it s even more true that it was when i sent the mail to anders chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 cwg dated NUMBER aNUMBERbNUMBERe URL said from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lately i ve got the feeling that exmh is getting slower and slower i just decided to check that vs reality and yes speed has left the scene somewhere between the release of NUMBER NUMBER and now i checked on a number of small messages in a big folder NUMBER msgs the delay of the next button has increased considerably NUMBER NUMBER release NUMBER NUMBER msec latest cvs NUMBER NUMBER msec frankly i think this is getting close to non acceptable since the user settings hasn t changed anybody have any ideas where performance disappeared most likely in the added overhead of managing more sequences i m sure it can be tuned a bunch but as i m leaving for a vacation on friday and have plenty of real work to do i won t be able to do much until i get back i will look at all this when i get back but if you want to check into what s slow and fix things while i m gone my feelings won t be hurt chris just one more info i measured the time spent wrapping the stuff in ftoc_next with time so the data is for real one difference between mine and valdis setup judging from his trace is that i use the address book i ve been doing that for ages so that can t be the problem is there a way to get the log to print time with higher granularity a _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 valdis kletnieks URL said i checked on a number of small messages in a big folder NUMBER msgs the delay of the next button has increased considerably NUMBER NUMBER release NUMBER NUMBER msec latest cvs NUMBER NUMBER msec i m not seeing a hit on next a quick just pound on next and watch the wall clock test shows me able to go through NUMBER messages in under NUMBER seconds so it s well under NUMBERms per switch but i m seeing a really piggy cpu spike NUMBER for a few seconds in the flist code of course it seems to be related to number of folders wc mail folders NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail folders i have NUMBER folders and run with bg proc set to flist NUMBER minute i see delays but not that much maybe NUMBER NUMBER seconds which tend to disappear these days this is on a pii NUMBER br a _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date tue NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER just one more info i measured the time spent wrapping the stuff in ftoc_next with time so the data is for real one difference between mine and valdis setup judging from his trace is that i use the address book i ve been doing that for ages so that can t be the problem assuming it s my fault which it probably is since nobody else has really been in there it s most likely related to the number of sequences in a folder i d guess that something is either being called that shouldn t be or is being called more times than it should be is there a way to get the log to print time with higher granularity not that i m aware of if you look in the code there are various places where the time function is called in order to see how long it took to do things you ll probably want to borrow that technique chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 chris garrigues said done i also eliminated the msgs variable on the theory that simpler is better i spent a lot of time hacking out the underbrush in exmh while working on the sequences window just a big thank you to chris for being willing to dive in and get very messy the sequence management code is some of the very oldest in exmh and surely suffered as features were added over several years when this stabilizes it will be a great excuse for a NUMBER NUMBER release brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER eNUMBERbNUMBERdNUMBER deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com tell me what keystroke made it happen so i can reproduce it and i ll see what i can do about it or if i can t i ll hand it off to brent don t worry too much about it you seem to have plenty of other things to do in the immediate future and this one isn t so critical that people can t use the code in normal ways but to make it happen type with normal key bindings any digit so the code thinks you re trying a message number then backspace so the digit goes away then other junk characters don t seem to have the problem i have just been playing that will do it every time that is NUMBER h once you get into that state the same traceback occurs for every character you type until a message is selected with the mouse this is looking like it might be easy to find and fix so i ll take a look at it later kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
you can also duplicate thiswith msgchange noshow at the tcl prompt in the log window i suspect that the sequence parser which understands things like NUMBER NUMBER to mean messages NUMBER through NUMBER is confused when asked to add remove message from a sequence if we are allowed to assume NUMBER NUMBER or higher which we can t really then we could add if string is integer select sel bail out of message select mode to the selecttypein procedure we can probably survive with if regexp NUMBER NUMBER select sel bail out of message select mode robert elz said date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER eNUMBERbNUMBERdNUMBER URL m message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com tell me what keystroke made it happen so i can reproduce it and i ll see what i can do about it or if i can t i ll hand it off to brent don t worry too much about it you seem to have plenty of other things to do in the immediate future and this one isn t so critical that people can t use the code in normal ways but to make it happen type with normal key bindings any digit so the code thinks you re trying a message number then backspace so the digit goes away then other junk characters don t seem to have the problem i have just been playing that will do it every time that is NUMBER h once you get into that state the same traceback occurs for every character you type until a message is selected with the mouse this is looking like it might be easy to find and fix so i ll take a look at it later brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 i may be wrong but i think a single select entry field is used for selecting messages and switching folders restricting the entries to be numeric would break the folder switching functionality wouldn t it my version of msgchange not yet updated has a check if msgid allow null msgid from msg_showwhat which supplies line instead if msgid NUMBER return else at the start of the procedure which takes care of the single case perhaps the thing to do is for msgchange to validate a msgid as a number before continuing kevin in message NUMBER vaaNUMBER blackcomb URL brent welch writes you can also duplicate thiswith msgchange noshow at the tcl prompt in the log window i suspect that the sequence parser which understands things like NUMBER NUMBER to mean messages NUMBER through NUMBER is confused when asked to add remove message from a sequence if we are allowed to assume NUMBER NUMBER or higher which we can t really then we could add if string is integer select sel bail out of message select mode to the selecttypein procedure we can probably survive with if regexp NUMBER NUMBER select sel bail out of message select mode robert elz said date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER eNUMBERbNUMBERdNUMBER URL m message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com tell me what keystroke made it happen so i can reproduce it and i ll see what i can do about it or if i can t i ll hand it off to brent don t worry too much about it you seem to have plenty of other things to do in the immediate future and this one isn t so critical that people can t use the code in normal ways but to make it happen type with normal key bindings any digit so the code thinks you re trying a message number then backspace so the digit goes away then other junk characters don t seem to have the problem i have just been playing that will do it every time that is NUMBER h once you get into that state the same traceback occurs for every character you type until a message is selected with the mouse this is looking like it might be easy to find and fix so i ll take a look at it later brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 date tue NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from brent welch welch panasas com message id NUMBER vaaNUMBER blackcomb panasas com if we are allowed to assume NUMBER NUMBER or higher which we can t really then we could add to the selecttypein procedure yes i looked at fixing it there but that code is really quite general with almost no understanding of what anything means so i didn t think that corrupting it with knowlwedge of the semantics of what it is fetching would really be the best thing to do i ran out of time last night while looking for a better place for a similar check i would have gone directly to the regexp i m not that up to date with all the latest tcl changes and i m not sure i will have time today but i will keep looking kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
i have some patches that seem to fix avoid this problem now it is amazing what one can achieve when mains power fails long enough for ups s to run out and all that is left operational is the laptop and its battery supply first i put in some defensive code into the area where the problem was occurring so that if exmh is attempting for any reason to expand a sequence that isn t either a number or a range of numbers or a list of such things it will simply ignore the trash rather than giving a traceback this one solves the initial problem mh tcl was thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mh tcl wed aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER set seq set rseq foreach range split string trim sequence if regexp NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER range just ignore anything bogus continue set parts split string trim range if llength parts NUMBER lappend seq parts that is amending proc mhseqexpand which is where the error was occurring before the code assumes that range is either nnn or nnn mmm so we should probably make sure that s true issue an error instead of just continue if you like but i don t think an error is needed but that just allowed me to create a similar problem in another place by typing nnn and rather than continue to fight fires like this i thought i should think more about brent s suggestion but rather than have the selection code actually validate the input which would mean it would have to know what is to be valid i decided that the right thing to do is just to ignore any errors caused by invalid input so i just stuck a catch around the msgshow that is processing the nonsense that the user has typed this way any later expansion to what msgshow treats as legal maybe allowing a sequence name like prev or next or anything else can be handled just there without someone needing to remember that they have to go fix the selection processing code to allow it but while i was playing there i noticed something i never new before if you type NUMBER the NUMBER changes to NUMBER and so on for each that is typed i suspect that s perhaps an artifact of is bound to a different function so it can be used as a toggle between changing the current and the target folder but it has to mean something if the current input mode is a message number so let it mean but now i found it i think its nice but if we can type NUMBER why not NUMBER as well that kind of limitation bugs me so i fixed it and then i wondered about folders with names containing the special use of as the toggle character means there s no way to type those from the keyboard so i fixed that as well this makes two different restrictions there s no way to type a folder name that has a name beginning with but such a thing in mh would be a pain to use anyway so i doubt this will bother anyone and it is now only possible to toggle between typing the current target folder name when the name being typed is empty i m less happy about that part but i think i can live with it in order to allow folder names with s in them to exist and be typed then since i was there anyway i decided to do something about another feature that has always bugged me in normal keyboard mode s is the key used to show a message but if you ve just typed NUMBER and the ftoc is highlighting NUMBER as the current message and you want to now show that message you can t type s you have to type r instead so i fixed this one as well fixed here is in quotes as it assumes that the keybinding for msgshow is s if you change that to something else it will remain s in here i don t know enough tk tcl to have it discover what key is bound to a function in the external world in order to bind the same one here r continues to work of course and now i got started in fixing irritants in this code i also made it clear the status line if you abort message folder entry mode c or g previously it used to leave the prompt sitting there until the next message appeared which made it less than obvious that the keyboard had reverted to its usual bindings in any case what follows is the patch that does all of that i believe that if you apply this then the one above is probably not needed the catch around the msgshow will hide the problem i don t think we really need to fix brent s way of invoking it or include it anyway just for completeness i haven t run an exmh with the following patch but not the previous one so i don t know for sure that all will be ok then kre select tcl was thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER select tcl wed aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bindtags w list w entry bind w any key selecttypein w a bind w key plus selecttoggle w bind w key minus selectprev w bind w space selectcomplete w bind w tab selectcomplete w bind w return selectreturn w bind w key s selectreturn w a bind w backspace selectbackspace w bind w control h selectbackspace w bind w delete selectbackspace w NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER append select sel a exmh_status select prompt select sel if info exists select folder msg_change select sel noshow catch msg_change select sel noshow proc selectbackspace w NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER proc selecttoggle w global select if info exists select folder if select sel selecttypein w return set select toggle list lindex select toggle NUMBER lindex select toggle NUMBER set select prompt lindex select toggle NUMBER folder else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER exmh_status select prompt select sel proc selectprev w global select if info exists select folder selecttypein w else catch incr select sel NUMBER msg_change select sel noshow exmh_status select prompt select sel proc selectcomplete w global select if info exists select folder NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER exmh_status select prompt select sel proc selectreturn w proc selectreturn w a global select if info exists select folder if a selecttypein w a return if info exists select match set select sel select match unset select match NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER unset select folder select entry configure state disabled exmh_status exmh_focus proc selectclear w _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from robert elz kre munnari oz au message id NUMBER NUMBER munnari oz au but while i was playing there i noticed something i never new before i also no the difference between new knew but i don t always type well um i mean i know the difference kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com hmmm i assume you re going to report this to the nmh folks it turns out when i did some investigation that my memory of how mh worked here was wrong that s not unusual the seq switch seems to have always done nolist requiring a subsequent list to turn it on again given that i have no idea how the pick code as it was ever worked in fact it quite possibly never did the way it was intended to i have just been browsing the NUMBER NUMBER sources and that seems to be attempting to do things that i never saw happen it may be that your new sequence method just exposed the bug that had been there all along given this i won t be sending any bug reports to the nmh people if nmh ever seems to be showing any signs further progress and if i remember this then i might send them a change request the code to make the change is trivial kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from robert elz kre munnari oz au date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it may be that your new sequence method just exposed the bug that had been there all along grin that s what the past NUMBER or NUMBER months of exmh hacking has been all about for me i ve now stabilized everything pretty well for my paid job so i ll probably poke around at the sequences performance issues but rather than checking changes in i ll email anything i figure out since i m leaving town in less than NUMBER hours chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERadNUMBERb deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com so i ll probably poke around at the sequences performance issues well there s this wonderful piece of code in mhseqexpand hack to weed out sequence numbers for messages that don t exist foreach m rseq if file exists mhprofile path folder m exmh_debug mhprofile path folder m not found set ix lsearch seq m set seq lreplace seq ix ix else real hack break which is going to run slow if a sequence happens to start with a bunch of messages that don t exist i m not sure why it is important that the first message in the sequence returned exists but not necessarily any of the others but i m sure glad it is as mhseqexpand gets called lots and i don t know if i could cope if it were checking every file in the sequences it is looking at all the time it may help to keep a list of the valid message numbers for the current folder though that would then need to be verified against changes to the directory does tcl have a directory read function i assume so mh_sequence also goes and rereads the files mh_sequences and the context file but i m not sure how frequently that one is called i ll email anything i figure out since i m leaving town in less than NUMBER hours have a good vacation kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from robert elz kre munnari oz au date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERadNUMBERb deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com so i ll probably poke around at the sequences performance issues well there s this wonderful piece of code in mhseqexpand hack to weed out sequence numbers for messages that don t exist foreach m rseq if file exists mhprofile path folder m exmh_debug mhprofile path folder m not found set ix lsearch seq m set seq lreplace seq ix ix else real hack break which is going to run slow if a sequence happens to start with a bunch of messages that don t exist i m not sure why it is important that the first message in the sequence returned exists but not necessarily any of the others but i m sure glad it is as mhseqexpand gets called lots and i don t know if i could cope if it were checking every file in the sequences it is looking at all the time although my fingerprints are all over that it s not actually my code and has been in there since before NUMBER it s code that i moved from mh tcl to sequences tcl and back again i m noNUMBER sure either but it should be a one time penalty because the sequence will be re written with the bad messages removed i think it may help to keep a list of the valid message numbers for the current folder though that would then need to be verified against changes to the directory does tcl have a directory read function i assume so mh_sequence also goes and rereads the files mh_sequences and the context file but i m not sure how frequently that one is called that was a problem but if you look at mh_sequence and mh_sequences and mh_sequenceupdate they all call mhreadseqs to do the actual reading and it only reads the sequences if the file has been touched look for the exmh_debug reading filename output in the debug log to see when sequences are actually reread from disk my theory is that ftoc_showsequences is being called too often i m about to investigate that i ll email anything i figure out since i m leaving town in less than NUMBER hours have a good vacation thanks chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lately i ve got the feeling that exmh is getting slower and slower i just decided to check that vs reality and yes speed has left the scene somewhere between the release of NUMBER NUMBER and now i checked on a number of small messages in a big folder NUMBER msgs the delay of the next button has increased considerably NUMBER NUMBER release NUMBER NUMBER msec latest cvs NUMBER NUMBER msec frankly i think this is getting close to non acceptable since the user settings hasn t changed anybody have any ideas where performance disappeared here s a fix that i think will make a real difference ftoc_showsequences needs to be able to be called with an optional list of msgids to update and if it s called that way it only removes or adds tags for those messages then in places like msgchange we only update the messages which have changed also a separate ftoc_showsequence function which only updates the display of one sequence should be written which also takes an optional list of msgids in a place like msgchange it would only need to update the cur sequence if nobody else gets to it i ll do this when i get back chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 robert elz said date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERadNUMBERb URL m message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com so i ll probably poke around at the sequences performance issues well there s this wonderful piece of code in mhseqexpand hack to weed out sequence numbers for messages that don t exist foreach m rseq if file exists mhprofile path folder m exmh_debug mhprofile path folder m not found set ix lsearch seq m set seq lreplace seq ix ix else real hack at least i m up front about my hacks break which is going to run slow if a sequence happens to start with a bunch of messages that don t exist i m not sure why it is important that the first message in the sequence returned exists but not necessarily any of the others but i m sure glad it is as mhseqexpand gets called lots and i don t know if i could cope if it were checking every file in the sequences it is looking at all the time that was my thinking my recollection about the first message being valid is that the ftoc code wants to find that message to start its highlighting for example or you are selecting a message to display it may help to keep a list of the valid message numbers for the current folder though that would then need to be verified against changes to the directory does tcl have a directory read function i assume so glob nocomplain mhprofile path folder will return an unsorted list of the directory s contents but the thought of keeping an in memory list of valid messages is not fun exmh already maintains in core lists of messages in sequences which is already pretty tricky mh_sequence also goes and rereads the files mh_sequences and the context file but i m not sure how frequently that one is called in some places i maintain caches of files by checking their modify time but the sequence files are soo small that by the time you stat them to check their date stamp you could just read them again also now that we checkpoint message state on every message view that file will change every time in the old days exmh used to cache a bunch of state about the folder brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from brent welch welch panasas com date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER robert elz said mh_sequence also goes and rereads the files mh_sequences and the context file but i m not sure how frequently that one is called in some places i maintain caches of files by checking their modify time but the sequence files are soo small that by the time you stat them to check their date stamp you could just read them again do you really think this is true i added a modify time check thinking that it would make an improvement since we were reading it a lot more times in the new code because we re trying to use the sequences on the other hand the sequences files are probably being read out of cache when that happens anyway even with a small file i d think that the time taken to do a file mtime filename would be worth it my code is in proc mhreadseqs chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
well i ve used the check the modify time cache trick for files in many places not just exmh so some part of me certainly thinks it is effective however it occurred to me that if we do checkpoint state then aren t we modifying the sequences file for the current folder on every message read perhaps we look at the sequences file more than once per message view just idle speculation we can stick in some time calls to find out how expensive things are someone asked about increasing the time resolution in the exmh log we could make that conditional on some support available in NUMBER NUMBER tcl has had clock seconds like gettimeofday and clock clicks high resolution timer for some time but in NUMBER NUMBER we ve calibrated clock clicks values to microseconds it is still only useful for relative times but each call to exmh_log could emit the microsecond delta since the last log record of course we are measuring all the overhead of taking the log record etc i ll try it out chris garrigues said from brent welch welch URL date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER robert elz said mh_sequence also goes and rereads the files mh_sequences and the context file but i m not sure how frequently that one is called in some places i maintain caches of files by checking their modify time but the sequence files are soo small that by the time you stat them to check their date stamp you could just read them again do you really think this is true i added a modify time check thinking that it would make an improvement since we were reading it a lot more times in the new code because we re trying to use the sequences on the other hand the sequences files are probably being read out of cache when that happens anyway even with a small file i d think that the time taken to do a file mtime filename would be worth it my code is in proc mhreadseqs chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from brent welch welch panasas com date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER well i ve used the check the modify time cache trick for files in many places not just exmh so some part of me certainly thinks it is effective however it occurred to me that if we do checkpoint state then aren t we modifying the sequences file for the current folder on every message read perhaps we look at the sequences file more than once per message view as i d written the code a few months ago we were reading the sequences file first to see what sequences were in it and then once per sequence this happens anywhere that we look at sequences most notably in ftoc_showsequences that seemed to be an obvious lose performancewise but i wanted my abstraction to have a separate call for what sequences are in this folder and what messages are in this sequence one option would have been to add another call to get the data off of disk but i felt that the check the modify time technique would be less error prone i think the biggest gains would be from augmenting ftoc_showsequences to allow a finer specification of what needs to be updated in the ftoc so that the current code would only be run when we really do have to update all sequences for all messages i described these thoughts in an email message yesterday and again if it can wait a few weeks i m willing to do it chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 chris garrigues said from brent welch welch URL date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER well i ve used the check the modify time cache trick for files in many places not just exmh so some part of me certainly thinks it is effective however it occurred to me that if we do checkpoint state then aren t we modifying the sequences file for the current folder on every message read perhaps we look at the sequences file more than once per message view as i d written the code a few months ago we were reading the sequences file first to see what sequences were in it and then once per sequence this happens anywhere that we look at sequences most notably in ftoc_showsequences that seemed to be an obvious lose performancewise but i wanted my abstraction to have a separate call for what sequences are in this folder and what messages are in this sequence one option would have been to add another call to get the data off of disk but i felt that the check the modify time technique would be less error prone i like the check the modify time technique i think the biggest gains would be from augmenting ftoc_showsequences to allow a finer specification of what needs to be updated in the ftoc so that the current code would only be run when we really do have to update all sequences for all messages i described these thoughts in an email message yesterday and again if it can wait a few weeks i m willing to do it ok i ve yet to dive into the latest round of changes but i plan to i can say i ll make any progress but i may dabble thanks again for all your work in this area generalized sequence support has been on my to do list for about NUMBER years brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 hi on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt reg clemens wrote in messages with gnupg signatures but punching the line always gives signature made thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt using dsa key id bddfNUMBERa can t check signature public key not found so something else is missing yes the public key of the signature you want to check are you really sure that you have the public key of the message s signature if not try downloading it or try to check a signature from which you know you have the public key ah sorry for not making that clearer but no previously vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of gnupg there would be a slight pause at this point while it went out to get the public key from a keyserver now whether i have the key or not i get the failure message its as if it cant find gpg to execute it but i fixed that path so there must be something else that i am missing reg clemens reg URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
hi on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt reg clemens wrote in messages with gnupg signatures but punching the line always gives signature made thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt using dsa key id bddfNUMBERa can t check signature public key not found so something else is missing yes the public key of the signature you want to check are you really sure that you have the public key of the message s signature if not try downloading it or try to check a signature from which you know you have the public key regards ingo ingo frommholz pgp public keys on homepage ingo URL URL my childhood inspection is my record collection ned s atomic dustbin _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
if you haven t already you should enable the debug log under hacking support preferences and look for clues there reg clemens said hi on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt reg clemens wrote in messages with gnupg signatures but punching the line always gives signature made thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt using dsa key id bdd fNUMBERa can t check signature public key not found so something else is missing yes the public key of the signature you want to check are you really sure that you have the public key of the message s signature if not try downloading it or try to check a signature from which you know you have the public key ah sorry for not making that clearer but no previously vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of gnupg there would be a slight pause at this point whi le it went out to get the public key from a keyserver now whether i have the key or not i get the failure message its as if it cant find gpg to execute it but i fixed that path so there must be something else that i am missing reg clemens reg URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
NUMBER things first the switch parser changed in a subtle way with NUMBER NUMBER byte code compilation was added and it is slightly more strict in its parsing than the original parser you can only have a comment where tcl would expect to find a command switch has a pattern body strucutre so if you goof and put a comment where it is trying to find a pattern both of you will be confused with the results the subtlty arises with extra whitespace and newlines i can t give you the exact case but i know exmh had one example that stopped parsing correctly and was arguably wrong before NUMBERnd i ve managed to remain fairly ignoranat of the pgp support in exmh so you ll have to dig in yourself or see if someone else on exmh users or exmh workers is having similar problems reg clemens said if you haven t already you should enable the debug log under hacking support preferences and look for clues there reg clemens said hi on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt reg clemens wrote in messages with gnupg signatures but punching the line always gives signature made thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt using dsa key i d bdd fNUMBERa can t check signature public key not found so something else is missing yes the public key of the signature you want to check are you really sure that you have the public key of the message s signature if not try downloading it or try to check a signature fro m which you know you have the public key ah sorry for not making that clearer but no previously vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of gnupg there would be a slight pause at this poin t whi le it went out to get the public key from a keyserver now whether i have the key or not i get the failure message its as if it cant find gpg to execute it but i fixed that path so th ere must be something else that i am missing reg clemens reg URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL partial solution and this may be related to using tcl tk NUMBER NUMBERbNUMBER as i had a similar problem about a month ago elsewhere in exmh which you found but first i really feel like something has changed out from under me with my making no changes to exmh namely when i first got gpg up and working for reading signatures all i did was touch the check signature button and it went out and queried the keyserver for me now im getting a separate box after the failure to find the public key on my keyring asking me of i want to query keyserver i know that i never had to touch a query keyserver button in the past but there it is now and i havent touched exmh spooky i have been working back and forth between gpg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER but its not clear how that could be the problem as im now getting the query message when running either ok enough about my confusion the current problem seems to be a comment in a switch statement at line NUMBER in pgpwww tcl tcl NUMBER NUMBERbNUMBER doesnt like it and i get your popup box remove it and no popupbox but exmh hangs sigh so not a complete solution but at least a start thanks for the interest reg clemens reg URL brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
i use exmh NUMBER NUMBER with procmail for presorting incoming mail and move it to the relevant folder using rcvstore recently my incoming mail or spool location moved to another disk i m not quite clear how to reconfigure procmail rcvstore exmh to accept mail from the new location there seems to be a variable in exmh defaults bgspool it says at the top of the file not to edit these lines so i went ahead and edited it that does not make a difference it seems like procmail is the one that is actually reading the mail from my spool incoming mail area and piping it to rcvstore so i need to configure that probably any idea how i would do this thanks siva _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt siva doriaswamy writes recently my incoming mail or spool location moved to another disk i m not quite clear how to reconfigure procmail rcvstore exmh to accept mail from the new location how do you feed procmail not with a forward i d guess how does mail enter your system anyway per fetchmail maybe or direct smtp delivery or does it just magically hit your spool lotsa questions cheers rw booze because one doesn t solve the world s problems over white wine ,0
is there a way to do a global sort command here s the situation i like to sort by date every folder i m cleaning up my inbox from most recent to oldest since i find this direction most efficient i guess because it helps me recognize the significance of individual old messages but this adds messages to my other folders in the wrong order when i m done i d like to re sort all the folders i ve changed rick _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt rick baartman baartman linNUMBER triumf ca wrote is there a way to do a global sort command here s the situation i like to sort by date every folder i m cleaning up my inbox from most recent to oldest since i find this direction most efficient i guess because it helps me recognize the significance of individual old messages but this adds messages to my other folders in the wrong order when i m done i d like to re sort all the folders i ve changed i don t understand how does sorting one folder add messages to other folders what do you use to sort tom _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 i don t understand how does sorting one folder add messages to other folders what do you use to sort sorry i wasn t clear i am transferring messages from my inbox to other folders and since i am doing it from most recent to oldest they appear in those folders in the wrong order and need re sorting rick _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt rick baartman baartman linNUMBER triumf ca wrote sorry i wasn t clear i am transferring messages from my inbox to other folders and since i am doing it from most recent to oldest they appear in those folders in the wrong order and need re sorting ok gotcha i don t think you can do that with exmh but you can do it on the command line if you use sh or ksh for f in folders fast r do echo sorting f sortm f done it could take a long time at work i have to use outlook ick i hate it but it does a few things right like making indices for each folder and not just by date but also by sender message size subject so i can sort by any column instantly i believe this is possible too with an imap compliant reader provided the imap server makes such indices i am facing the fact that exmh has been left behind in some industry standards i use it for my personal mail my mail server runs unix and i connect over ssh and tunnel my x traffic over ssh with a slow link this makes exmh very slow and mime handling is pretty bad compared with modern mailers i am just scared to move i ve been using mh or nmh since NUMBER and exmh since NUMBER NUMBER years is a long time _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER rick baartman wrote is there a way to do a global sort command wanting to sort like that is not common i d be surprised if exmh has a widget for it you can achieve what you want with the command line mh tools though i suggest doing the following from a shell prompt sh c for f in folders recurse fast do sortm f done the command sortm will sort a particular folder and folders recurse fast prints out a list of all of your folders i hope this helps jacob morzinski jmorzins URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 i am facing the fact that exmh has been left behind in some industry standards i use it for my personal mail my mail server runs unix and i connect over ssh and tunnel my x traffic over ssh with a slow link this makes exmh very slow and mime handling is pretty bad compared with modern mailers these are some good comments and i d like to share an opinion here is that permitted i started using linux about NUMBER or NUMBER years ago in rebellion against what the university was doing with winder i just couldn t get good support and was using a lot of unix based tools ported to winder anyway so i jumped ship and became my own sysadm what i got was the easy ability to use a shell now ssh to connect to my office box from just about anywhere and use either exmh or nmh from the command line i can do email for the office fairly easily i haven t seen any other tools that let me do that yet but i have to admit that some of the web based mail software is getting pretty close quoting and such is still primitive but they re moving forward d _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER rick baartman wrote is there a way to do a global sort command wanting to sort like that is not common i d be surprised if exmh has a widget for it you can achieve what you want with the command line mh tools though i suggest doing the following from a shell prompt sh c for f in folders recurse fast do sortm f done the command sortm will sort a particular folder and folders recurse fast prints out a list of all of your folders thanks tom and jacob the above works but without the double quotes i e sh c for f in folders recurse fast do sortm f done i d attach this command to the sorting menu if i knew any tcl rick _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER rick baartman wrote thanks tom and jacob the above works but without the double quotes i e sh c for f in folders recurse fast do sortm f done but there is a problem with making changes outside of exmh the xmhcache files don t get updated this is dangerous i have to remember to re scan each folder i enter is there a safeguard for this rick _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 sh c for f in folders recurse fast do sortm f done thanks tom and jacob the above works but without the double quotes i e sh c for f in folders recurse fast do sortm f done i may have a different version of sh than you do the double quotes around the backticks work for my sh in the more than you really wanted to know category you re probably safe without the double quotes the only reason i put them in is that i have some pathologically named folders including folders whose names contain spaces if all your folders have safe names you don t need special quoting jacob _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER rick rick baartman wrote rick this is dangerous i have to remember to re scan each rick folder i enter is there a safeguard for this nope regenerate the cache in the script for f in folders fast r do echo sorting f sortm f scan mhpath f xmhcache done hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
i suspect that as part of chris set of changes he cleaned up the use of the variable that was named l in ftoccommit in ftoc tcl its name got changed from l to lineno but there s one reference of l left that causes tracebacks if you attempt to use link with the current cvs version of exmh i guess that most of us don t use link very often i noticed it last week but only got time to look and see why today if someone with the ability to commit to the cvs repository would apply the following patch to lib ftoc tcl that would be nice it works and is trivial and you could perhaps just apply it by making the change with an editor faster than saving this patch and applying it there s only one instance of l in the file that should be changed to lineno kre ,0
done robert elz said i suspect that as part of chris set of changes he cleaned up the use of the variable that was named l in ftoccommit in ftoc tcl its name got changed from l to lineno but there s one reference of l left that causes tracebacks if you attempt to use link with the current cvs version of exmh i guess that most of us don t use link very often i noticed it last week but only got time to look and see why today if someone with the ability to commit to the cvs repository would apply the following patch to lib ftoc tcl that would be nice it works and is trivial and you could perhaps just apply it by making the change with an editor faster than saving this patch and applying it there s only one instance of l in the file that should be changed to lineno kre ftoc tcl prev wed aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ftoc tcl tue sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER incr ftoc nummsgs NUMBER else ftocunmarkinner l ftocunmarkinner lineno incr ftoc changed NUMBER if delmsgs _exmh_NUMBER brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cdt hal devore writes scan mhpath f xmhcache shouldn t that read scan mhpath f xmhcache and jic something else changed the context in the background it doesn t hurt to explicitly state the folder scan f mhpath f xmhcache cheers rw the problem with the ibm keyboards i have is that when you use them to beat lusers the caps come off the keys no real damage but still a nuisance martijn berlage ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tom reingold noglider pobox com wrote at work i have to use outlook ick i hate it ahh at work we fire people who use outlook literally true they get escorted to the door their badge confiscated and told to return the next day to collect their office contents but it does a few things right like making indices for each folder and not just by date but also by sender message size subject so i can sort by any column instantly have you looked into using a custom sequences file and mime handling is pretty bad compared with modern mailers the only thing i actually miss in that regard is support for s mime j c lawrence satan oscillate my metallic sonatas claw URL he lived as a devil eh URL evil is a name of a foeman as i live _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt j c lawrence claw kanga nu wrote on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tom reingold noglider pobox com wrote at work i have to use outlook ick i hate it ahh at work we fire people who use outlook literally true they get escorted to the door their badge confiscated and told to return the next day to collect their office contents why what threat does outlook pose to your organization but it does a few things right like making indices for each folder and not just by date but also by sender message size subject so i can sort by any column instantly have you looked into using a custom sequences file more detail please i do use sequences so i m familiar with their use but how can i make indices with them and how can i keep them up to date and mime handling is pretty bad compared with modern mailers the only thing i actually miss in that regard is support for s mime you re probably running exmh on a local machine i m running it on a very remote machine in this scenario the mime handling is weak _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 tom reingold wrote ahh at work we fire people who use outlook literally true they get escorted to the door their badge confiscated and told to return the next day to collect their office contents why what threat does outlook pose to your organization it has been described as the technological equivalent of soliciting blood transfusions from random strangers in the street in short it s a virus magnet _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tom reingold noglider pobox com wrote on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt j c lawrence claw URL wrote ahh at work we fire people who use outlook literally true they get escorted to the door their badge confiscated and told to return the next day to collect their office contents why what threat does outlook pose to your organization it places the company corporate network and data at risk outlook is subject to an absurdly large number of exploits with more being regularly found an exploited system to whatever extent places other corporate systems at risk customer systems at risk company reputation and liability with customers at risk and proprietary corporate data at risk further users cannot be reliably expected to use outlook in a safe manner the net result is that outlook use is considered to be somewhere between criminal negligence and deliberately malicious as far as the employer is concerned have you looked into using a custom sequences file more detail please i do use sequences so i m familiar with their use but how can i make indices with them and how can i keep them up to date i don t use custom sequences so i can t comment well i suspect that you d have to use a cron job to maintain the sequences the only thing i actually miss in that regard is support for s mime you re probably running exmh on a local machine i m running it on a very remote machine in this scenario the mime handling is weak nope i run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting exmh windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops gratis ssh xNUMBER forwarding in fact your message was read and replied to this message while at work using an exmh instance running on my home machine j c lawrence satan oscillate my metallic sonatas claw URL he lived as a devil eh URL evil is a name of a foeman as i live _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 from hal devore haldevore acm org sender exmh users admin URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER rick rick baartman wrote rick this is dangerous i have to remember to re scan each rick folder i enter is there a safeguard for this nope regenerate the cache in the script for f in folders fast r do echo sorting f sortm f scan mhpath f xmhcache done hal here is the little script i run i run nightly from cron it does a general tidying of things including sorting and updating the cache i didn t write it and i m afraid i have lost track of who did but it s worked well for years i run a similar one to update the glimpse indices nightly r kevin oberman network engineer energy sciences network esnet ernest o lawrence berkeley national laboratory berkeley lab e mail oberman URL phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bst james gibbon james gibbon virgin net wrote tom reingold wrote why what threat does outlook pose to your organization it has been described as the technological equivalent of soliciting blood transfusions from random strangers in the street in short it s a virus magnet oh that well you re right _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 you re probably running exmh on a local machine i m running it on a very remote machine in this scenario the mime handling is weak nope i run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting exmh windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops gratis ssh xNUMBER forwarding i run exmh routinely from home broadband using an xwindows client tunneled through ssh under ahem winxp it works very well in this fashion fwiw i use eudora under winder because it s less of a virus magnet there s more to the story why i run winder but that s really off topic and i m already guilty d _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
there is an update all scan caches menu entry that rescans your folders similar to the short scripts folks have shared around it runs in the background rick baartman said on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER rick baartman wrote thanks tom and jacob the above works but without the double quotes i e sh c for f in folders recurse fast do sortm f done but there is a problem with making changes outside of exmh the xmhcache fi les don t get updated this is dangerous i have to remember to re scan each fol der i enter is there a safeguard for this rick _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt j c lawrence writes i run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting exmh windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops gratis ssh xNUMBER forwarding in fact your message was read and replied to this message while at work using an exmh instance running on my home machine so you have NUMBER copies NUMBER NUMBER per desktop of exmh running that s what i usually do but what i d really like would be some automagism to tell them flist rescan folder which i now do manually whenever i m going to work at the other machine cheers rw in the first place god made idiots though this was for practice only then he made users mark twain modified ,0
thanks brent now it s clearer to me what s needed i ve used the global sort and j c lawrence s re scan but there is still a vulnerability there if i have an instance of exmh running the folder i m visiting will have its new correct xmhcache overwritten with an incorrect one when i switch folders i can cron the sort and re scan process but i should kill running exmh s first best would be to have a button for global sort and update all scan caches in the exmh more menu rick brent brent welch welch panasas com wrote the following on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER brent there is an update all scan caches menu entry that rescans your brent folders similar to the short scripts folks have shared around it brent runs in the background _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER robert waldner waldner waldner priv at wrote on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt j c lawrence writes i run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting exmh windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops gratis ssh xNUMBER forwarding in fact your message was read and replied to this message while at work using an exmh instance running on my home machine so you have NUMBER copies NUMBER NUMBER per desktop of exmh running yes one of the nicer aspects of exmh s colour handling is that while i have the default background for the message pane set to black the second insance of exmh displaying to a given display will set the background of the message pane to darkslategray very nice as it provides an instant visual cue as to which is which no i ve not checked where it gets that colour selection from that s what i usually do but what i d really like would be some automagism to tell them flist rescan folder which i now do manually whenever i m going to work at the other machine nod j c lawrence satan oscillate my metallic sonatas claw URL he lived as a devil eh URL evil is a name of a foeman as i live _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 i run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting exmh windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops gratis ssh xNUMBER forwarding in fact your message was read and replied to this message while at work using an exmh instance running on my home machine just to throw in another approach to solving the same problem i run two copies of exmh one at work one at home they both display on a virtual x server created by vncserver on the home box i connect to that virtual x server using vncviewer wherever i happen to be the vnc connection is tunneled over ssh and is carried over the internet via an ipsec appliance that gives me access to both home and work email from either place without the complications involved in having two copies of exmh working on the same set of folders it s a tad slow viewing work email when i m at work but not so bad that i can t stand it hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
hmm i m cc ing the exmh workers list because i really don t know much about the various pgp interfaces i think there has been some talk about issues with the latest version of gpg hacksaw said version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERsmp NUMBER smp thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt NUMBER iNUMBER unknown tk NUMBER NUMBER tcl NUMBER NUMBER it s not clear to me this is a bug with exmh per se but it s something that manifests through exmh so i figured asking you might help me track it down when i receive a gpg encrypted message and it asks me for a passphrase it first tries to ask me via the tty under which exmh is running it tells me m y passphrase is incorrect every time at which point exmh offers me the line i n the message about decrypting i click the line and it offers me the dialog box and tells me the passphrase is correct and shows me the decrypted message any ideas on that honour necessity URL URL kbNUMBERfvd brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 the way to debug something like this is to turn on the log preferences hacking support debug log enabled and track the gpg commands being issued and the responses fwiw using exmh NUMBER NUMBER and gpg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i do not have problems sending encrypted messages to myself when i select the message an xterm window pops up asking for the passphrase i don t recall exmh ever asking me for the passphrase from the tty that started exmh nor from a dialog box but then again i m not a heavy gpg user kevin in message NUMBER paaNUMBER blackcomb panasas com brent welch writes hmm i m cc ing the exmh workers list because i really don t know much about the various pgp interfaces i think there has been some talk about issues with the latest version of gpg hacksaw said version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERsmp NUMBER smp thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt NUMBER iNUMBER unknown tk NUMBER NUMBER tcl NUMBER NUMBER it s not clear to me this is a bug with exmh per se but it s something that manifests through exmh so i figured asking you might help me track it down when i receive a gpg encrypted message and it asks me for a passphrase it first tries to ask me via the tty under which exmh is running it tells me my passphrase is incorrect every time at which point exmh offers me the line in the message about decrypting i click the line and it offers me the dialog box and tells me the passphrase is correct and shows me the decrypted message any ideas on that _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt brent welch said hacksaw said when i receive a gpg encrypted message and it asks me for a passphrase it first tries to ask me via the tty under which exmh is running it tells hmm i ve seen the opposite issue if i go to send a signed message sometimes exmh will put up the dialog box but fail to set keyboard focus there so no passphrase can be entered of course hitting return doesnt work so you need to click the ok box at which point it finds that the passphrase that wasn t entered doesn t work and asks again this time with proper focus set i suspect some variable codepath is getting hosed for the focus or possibly some borkedness with no tty and or status fd flags to gnupg valdis ,0
 gotta wonder what the gpg config stuff in exmh exmh defaults looks like also gotta wonder what the message headers in the offending message are saying to nmh exmh my set up works perfectly that is i get a pop up window to enter my passphrase into and when i type it correctly the message display changes from a prompt to click to decrypt to the message content ttfn on NUMBER september NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER brent welch welch panasas com wrote hmm i m cc ing the exmh workers list because i really don t know much about the various pgp interfaces i think there has been some talk about issues with the latest version of gpg hacksaw said version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERsmp NUMBER smp thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt NUMBER iNUMBER unknown tk NUMBER NUMBER tcl NUMBER NUMBER it s not clear to me this is a bug with exmh per se but it s something that manifests through exmh so i figured asking you might help me track it down when i receive a gpg encrypted message and it asks me for a passphrase it first tries to ask me via the tty under which exmh is running it tells me my passphrase is incorrect every time at which point exmh offers me the line in the message about decrypting i click the line and it offers me the dialog box and tells me the passphrase is correct and shows me the decrypted message any ideas on that honour necessity URL URL kbNUMBERfvd _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 here s a message that works fine for me x mailer exmh version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with nmh NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to kevinc URL subject gpg test mime version NUMBER NUMBER content type text x pgp format mime x action encrypt x recipients dNUMBERcNUMBERcc dNUMBERcNUMBERcc content transfer encoding NUMBERbit date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from kevin cosgrove kevinc URL message id NUMBER NUMBERfeab joseph URL begin pgp message version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux comment exmh version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER blah blah blah end pgp message it could be that your content type of text plain is messing you up your config stuff looks substantially the same as mine cheers on NUMBER september NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER hacksaw hacksaw URL wrote you may assume the x s were originally a valid address x em version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x em registration NUMBEReNUMBERbNUMBER x priority NUMBER x mailer my own email vNUMBER NUMBER mime version NUMBER NUMBER content type text plain charset us ascii subject discussion from xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx com date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt to hacksaw URL gpgrfcNUMBER NUMBER gpgchoosekey NUMBER gpgruntwice NUMBER gpgcacheids persistent gpgminmatch NUMBER gpgshowinline none gpgshortmessages NUMBER gpgautoextract NUMBER gpgkeyserver pgp public keys URL gpgkeyquerymethod hkp gpghkpkeyserverurl URL gpgkeyserverurl URL get search NUMBERx s gpgkeyothermethod exec echo can t find id tmp gpgcomment exmh version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gpgmodulepath usr lib gnupg gpgciphermods skipjack idea gpgdigestmods tiger gpgpubkeymods rsa gpgpgpNUMBERcompatibility NUMBER gpgcipheralgo NUMBERdes gpgdigestalgo shaNUMBER gpgcompressalgo zip _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 i am a tv twm user when i snarf text into my mouse cut buffer and then attempt to inject it into the exmh input windows for comp repl the point is often an apparently random place in the text pane not where i think i have current flashing cursor i usually wipe out any of to subject random body with the text its often not even beginning of line denoted ie its an unexplicable number of char spaces in to the text where it inserts what am i doing wrong in either x wm shell exmh which is causing this cheers george _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
exmh has a funky cut paste model that is essentially all my fault the middle click sets the insert point if you hate that go to the bindings simple edit preferences window and de select paste sets insert george michaelson said i am a tv twm user when i snarf text into my mouse cut buffer and then attempt to inject it into the exmh input windows for comp repl the point is often an apparently random place in the text pane not where i think i have current flashing cursor i usually wipe out any of to subject random body with the text its often not even beginning of line denoted ie its an unexplicable number of char spaces in to the text where it inserts what am i doing wrong in either x wm shell exmh which is causing this brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from brent welch welch panasas com message id NUMBER xaaNUMBER blackcomb panasas com exmh has a funky cut paste model that is essentially all my fault the middle click sets the insert point if you hate that go to the bindings simple edit preferences window and de select paste sets insert unfortunately the side effect of that solution is that it is no longer possible to cut paste within one sedit window some intermediate client always must be used except in the rare case where you want to select some text and then paste it at the same place that s because the click that you have to with this option make to set the insert point also kills the selection it ends up reverting to the last selection made in some other window or something like that so the vast majority of people probably want that paste sets insert enabled that one you can learn to live with the other is much more painful kre _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER robert elz wrote date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from brent welch welch panasas com exmh has a funky cut paste model that is essentially all my fault the middle click sets the insert point if you hate that go to the bindings simple edit preferences window and de select paste sets insert unfortunately the side effect of that solution is that it is no longer possible to cut paste within one sedit window some intermediate client always must be used except in the rare case where you want to select some text and then paste it at the same place so the vast majority of people probably want that paste sets insert enabled that one you can learn to live with the other is much more painful for a long time i have used an external editor with exmh gvim i can cut n paste from exmh s message display window into spawned gvim processes but not into anything else this is very annoying i have to look at the message with cat or less or whatever in a terminal window if i want to do this which is quite often and if the message is q p encoded or a non text plain mime type i end up with all that raw garbage too anyway to fix this btw standard iNUMBER redhatNUMBER NUMBER thanks kre cheers tony _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER robert elz wrote subject patch to complete a change i guess that most of us don t use link very often i noticed it last week but only got time to look and see why today i would like to use link a lot more but is it rather inconvenient i have set my right mouse button to move a message to another folder which works fine however link also uses the same destination folder as move and so if i want to use link i first have to mark the destination folder with a message move undo the move then i can use the link very inconvenient is there a better way for me to set this up so that link works with one or two simple clicks in essence is there a way to mark a destination folder for a message link or move without actually doing a move or link i couldn t see anything obvious cheers tony _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER tony tony nugent wrote tony in essence is there a way to mark a destination folder tony for a message link or move without actually doing a move tony or link i couldn t see anything obvious NUMBER right click on the folder label in the folder list NUMBER in the main window the key puts you into a change folder mode the first time you use it after starting exmh hit a second and you go to set a target mode type a few characters of the folder name and hit space for autocomplete hal how s spring shaping up down under _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 date thu NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from hal devore haldevore acm org message id NUMBER NUMBER dimebox NUMBER right click on the folder label in the folder list that the way i have it configured and it sounds as if the way tony does too just does a move rather than select as target without moving of course if you can manage to get no messages currently selected then it works fine NUMBER in the main window the key puts you into a change folder mode the first time you use it after starting exmh hit a second and you go to set a target mode type a few characters of the folder name and hit space for autocomplete this works but is not nice if you re not using the keyboard but just the mouse tony i agree a nice way to link in one click would be good and should be easy to add though currently adding mouse bindings something like shift right click would be a good choice is much harder than adding key bindings but note there s no need to undo the way i generally use link if the desired destination folder isn t the current selected target is to right click on the target which selects it and moves the message and because i have the automatic move to the next message on move or link option set select the message again and then link exmh only permits one uncomitted action to be selected for a message at a time that is one of delete move or link selecting any of those implicitly undoes any previous choice from the three so you cannot achieve a move by doing a link then delete then commit it needs to be link commit delete commit xmh was just the same there incidentally how s spring shaping up down under no meaningful comment from me i m not there at the minute but i m told that where i m from it is cold wet and miserable though has been better during the day sunny days cold nights for the past few in any case all of that is a good enough reason to stay away kre _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 date fri NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from tony nugent tony linuxworks com au message id NUMBER gNUMBERdNUMBERqufNUMBER hobbit linuxworks com au nospam i can cut n paste from exmh s message display window into spawned gvim processes but not into anything else that s odd i cut paste between all kinds of windows exmh into mozilla xterm another wish script of mine i use for dns tasks but that one i guess is to be expected netscape when i used to use it but i suppose it and mozilla are the same codebase approx in fact i can t thing of anything it fails for that i have noticed what is an example of an anything else that it fails for for you kre _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER robert elz wrote date fri NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from tony nugent tony linuxworks com au i can cut n paste from exmh s message display window into spawned gvim processes but not into anything else that s odd i cut paste between all kinds of windows exmh into not so odd this issue came up several weeks ago with no real resolution mozilla xterm another wish script of mine i use for dns tasks but that one i guess is to be expected netscape when i used to use it but i suppose it and mozilla are the same codebase approx in fact i can t thing of anything it fails for that i have noticed what is an example of an anything else that it fails for for you everything else i can t even mark text in an exmh message window and then paste it into a terminal window the cut buffer seems to be completely empty and its previous contents are no longer there either kre btw talking of spring downunder i m in queensland it almost feels like early summer already winters here are dry and warm much better than cold wet miserable melbourne despite some recent rain first in months we are already into a drought with an el nino on the way it is only going to get worse the last one in the NUMBERs caused one of the worst droughts ever seen here in aussie cheers tony _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 NUMBER in the main window the key puts you into a change folder mode the first time you use it after starting exmh hit a second and you go to set a target mode type a few characters of the folder name and hit space for autocomplete i should have finished this off NUMBER keep hitting space to loop thru all the folders that match the characters you typed hit return to actually select the folder shown in the message area i don t use this for navigating into nested folders as the only thing i have nested is my archives someone else will have to tell you how to do that if there are any tricks to it hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER robert robert elz wrote robert that the way i have it configured and it sounds as if robert the way tony does too just does a move rather than robert select as target without moving ah i had forgotten that was settable preferences folder display action when target button clicked set to select only will change it i seem to recall that the button that is used as target button is configurable but i haven t had enough caffeine to recall where that is hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER tony tony nugent wrote tony i can t even mark text in an exmh message window and then tony paste it into a terminal window the cut buffer seems to tony be completely empty and its previous contents are no tony longer there either brent confessed recently that he had tried to subvert the x model s of copy and paste not in those words but that was how i read it i have a lot of trouble copying and pasting from or to exmh across a vnc link from things in the vncviewer to things not in it and vice versa as long as i stick to apps being normally displayed on my x server i don t have much of a problem my recollection from my x programming days is that the x model like everything in x is more complex than the human brain can handle it also is very different from the ms windows model and i get the feeling that tk tries to unify those two models and fails not sure what the exmh specific contribution to the confusion is frankly hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 from tony nugent tony linuxworks com au sender exmh users admin URL date fri NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER robert elz wrote date fri NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from tony nugent tony linuxworks com au i can cut n paste from exmh s message display window into spawned gvim processes but not into anything else that s odd i cut paste between all kinds of windows exmh into not so odd this issue came up several weeks ago with no real resolution mozilla xterm another wish script of mine i use for dns tasks but that one i guess is to be expected netscape when i used to use it but i suppose it and mozilla are the same codebase approx in fact i can t thing of anything it fails for that i have noticed what is an example of an anything else that it fails for for you everything else i can t even mark text in an exmh message window and then paste it into a terminal window the cut buffer seems to be completely empty and its previous contents are no longer there either kre btw talking of spring downunder i m in queensland it almost feels like early summer already winters here are dry and warm much better than cold wet miserable melbourne despite some recent rain first in months we are already into a drought with an el nino on the way it is only going to get worse the last one in the NUMBERs caused one of the worst droughts ever seen here in aussie this is all guess work and may be bogus are you running gnome NUMBER NUMBER i had similar problems as did several co workers updating my gnome components has fixed it for me and others although i can t say exactly which component did the trick gnomecore or gtk would seem most likely but it may have been something else in any case i have not seen the problem for quite a while now r kevin oberman network engineer energy sciences network esnet ernest o lawrence berkeley national laboratory berkeley lab e mail oberman URL phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 in message NUMBER gNUMBERdNUMBERvoNUMBER hobbit linuxworks com au nospam tony nu gent writes i have set my right mouse button to move a message to another folder which works fine however link also uses the same destination folder as move and so if i want to use link i first have to mark the destination folder with a message move undo the move then i can use the link very inconvenient is there a better way for me to set this up so that link works with one or two simple clicks according to some old documentation man exmh ref the mouse bindings for the folders labels are left change to folder middle view nested folders right refile current messages to the folder shift right link current messages to the folder shift middle drag a folder label to some drop target control right clear the current target folder it should be possible to link using shift right click the same way you can move using only right click kevin _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
i ve never understood the mouse buffer operation with exmh either here s the behaviour i have i have exmh and xemacs windows up and a terminal window i also have gnomeNUMBER NUMBER running and enlightenment as wm i select text in the exmh window and while it is highlighted i can paste into anything else if i select it and then click so the highlighting is off then what i paste is not the recently selected text in exmh but an old selection if i select in xemacs and leave it highlighted i can paste it into exmh sedit window but if it is no longer highlighted what i paste is an old selection i can live with this behaviour except for one additional thing if nothing is highlighted then what i paste into exmh is different from what i paste into other windows to be more specific here s what gets pasted if nothing is highlighted application what gets pasted xemacs whatever was last selected unless it was last selected in exmh xterm same as xemacs abiword nothing nedit nothing sedit whatever was last highlighted in sedit and overwritten the last needs some amplification if i highlight something in sedit then obviously that s what gets pasted if the highlighting is off then what gets pasted is not what was last highlighted in sedit but what was last highlighted and typed over i have type kills sel on it seems that exmh and sedit are the oddballs here very often when i try to paste something in sedit i end up muttering wtf rick _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 hi folks i ve been trying to set a button called which automatically forwards mail using a form mycomps without going through the editor but so far haven t got the right recipe i currently have in my exmh defaults mops spam text spam mops spam command msg_forward form spamcomps noedit nowhatnowproc msg _remove i ve also tried with seditsend draft t NUMBER after the forward command it should forward to a spam address where filters get adjusted and then delete it does so but not without producing the edit window any help appreciated wendy roberts wendy roberts head system administrator high energy astrophsics division harvard smithsonian center for astrophysics cambridge ma usa NUMBER wendy URL phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER kevin oberman wrote what is an example of an anything else that it fails for for you everything else i can t even mark text in an exmh message window and then paste it into a terminal window the cut buffer seems to be completely empty and its previous contents are no longer there either this is all guess work and may be bogus are you running gnome NUMBER NUMBER i had similar problems as did several co workers updating my gnome components has fixed it for me and others although i can t say exactly which component did the trick gnomecore or gtk would seem most likely but it may have been something else indeed i am this workstation is rhNUMBER NUMBER with gnomeNUMBER NUMBER it mostly works so i hadn t bothered to updated it to NUMBER NUMBER in any case i have not seen the problem for quite a while now so upgrading gnome will fix the problem it s not an exmh tktcl issue r kevin oberman network engineer thanks cheers tony _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER dale alspach wrote my experience has been that if the item is showing in xclipboard and is highlighted that is what is pasted using the mouse classic x copy and paste behavior is that you can only paste what is currently highlighted in fact it is the act of highlighting a selection that actually copies that selection into the buffer x has no copy command if you highlighted it you just copied it this does not seem to override what is in an application s own paste buffer as far as i can tell maple s cut and paste for example is isolated if ab application has a copy command that you can choose to use separately from the process of highlighting something that command is something the application authors wrote on their own and it it likely that an application that wrote an internal copy command would also have their own customized paste command to make sure the two work together whether the internal custom select and paste functions interoperate with the x server s global select and paste functions will vary from program to program because in each case you are relying on the program s authors efforts to blend separate systems jacob morzinski jmorzins URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER wendy wendy p roberts wrote wendy i ve been trying to set a button called which wendy automatically forwards mail using a form mycomps wendy without going through the editor but so far haven t got wendy the right recipe i have one that uses dist to send stuff from my work mail to my home mail the binding looks like this set bindings key hd_dist_silently form distcomps to me meta dollar the hd_dist_silently is a hacked up version of the proc that does dist in exmh and is pasted in below it s getting old and probably should be resynced with the current code but it still works on a relatively recent cvs copy of exmh it s also possible that there s an easier way but i hacked this together quickly a year or more ago and when it worked i moved on to other tasks hal proc hd_dist_silently args global exmh msg set exmh ctype dist if string length args NUMBER set args mh_distsetup if msgok msg id m if string compare info command args args NUMBER old interface with hook procedure if catch args exmh folder m err setup draft msg exmh_status args err purple return else if catch exmh_status dist exmh folder m eval mhexec dist exmh folder m nowhatnowproc args mhannosetup exmh folder m dist err exmh_status dist err purple return edit_done send just send it _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 from tony nugent tony linuxworks com au sender exmh users admin URL date sat NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER kevin oberman wrote what is an example of an anything else that it fails for for you everything else i can t even mark text in an exmh message window and then paste it into a terminal window the cut buffer seems to be completely empty and its previous contents are no longer there either this is all guess work and may be bogus are you running gnome NUMBER NUMBER i had similar problems as did several co workers updating my gnome components has fixed it for me and others although i can t say exactly which component did the trick gnomecore or gtk would seem most likely but it may have been something else indeed i am this workstation is rhNUMBER NUMBER with gnomeNUMBER NUMBER it mostly works so i hadn t bothered to updated it to NUMBER NUMBER in any case i have not seen the problem for quite a while now so upgrading gnome will fix the problem it s not an exmh tktcl issue it did for me but i am not willing to say it is not a tcl tk issue as other apps seemed to work ok for cut and paste and tk does its clipboard stuff a bit differently than most toolkits so i m not about to place blame just reporting my experience also i am not talking about installing gnomeNUMBER just updating the many many pieces of gnome to the current rev level r kevin oberman network engineer energy sciences network esnet ernest o lawrence berkeley national laboratory berkeley lab e mail oberman URL phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
i recently transfered my exmh setup to a new system and now all my email ends up in mail myincerrors folder this is true for inbox or presort options i m having difficulty finding this condition in the documention suggestions cheers karl _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
i guess the first question here should be does anyone have some updates to the pgp code in exmh that i should know about my current problem is that if i get a pgp signed message i first get a button that reads check the signature with gnupg if i punch the button and i dont have the signature on my keyring then i get a message saying just that and the message can t check signature public key not found along with a button with the inscription query keyserver if i punch the button then exmh just hangs forever if instead of punching the button i go out to the keyserver myself and then try the message again everything works so it seems that it must be the code that goes out to the keyserver anyone else with this problem this is exmh vNUMBER NUMBER and tcl tk NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER reg clemens reg URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
is there any way to customise the folder table of contents for specific folders i know it is possible to do per folder customisation with components and replcomps for message templates but what about form format files for scan cheers tony _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
i ve been working on salary related things the past few days but i m starting to think about exmh again thanks to robert for finding that s l lineno bug so has anybody else been looking at the performance issues that we were talking about before i left or should i dig right in chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
i just updated to the latest cvs i had been running a build from june hitting the flist button gives the following traceback syntax error in expression int NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER while executing expr int minline NUMBER msgid minmsg maxline minline NUMBER maxmsg minmsg procedure ftoc_findmsg line NUMBER invoked from within ftoc_findmsg i procedure ftoc_showsequences line NUMBER invoked from within ftoc_showsequences f procedure scanfolder line NUMBER invoked from within scanfolder inbox NUMBER invoked from within time list scanfolder f adjustdisplay procedure scan_folder line NUMBER invoked from within scan_folder exmh folder ftoc shownew procedure inc_presortfinish line NUMBER invoked from within inc_presortfinish invoked from within fops flist invoke uplevel body line NUMBER invoked from within uplevel NUMBER list w invoke procedure tkbuttonup line NUMBER invoked from within tkbuttonup fops flist command bound to event it seems to only happen in a folder with no unseen messages chris is this related to your recent changes scott _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
both move and link are one click actions button NUMBER on a folder label move s the current message shift button NUMBER on a folder label link s the current message robert elz said date thu NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from hal devore haldevore acm org message id NUMBER NUMBER dimebox NUMBER right click on the folder label in the folder list that the way i have it configured and it sounds as if the way tony does too just does a move rather than select as target without moving of course if you can manage to get no messages currently selected then it works fine NUMBER in the main window the key puts you into a change folder mode the first time you use it after starting exmh hit a second and you go to set a target mode type a few characters of the folder name and hit space for autocomplete this works but is not nice if you re not using the keyboard but just the mouse tony i agree a nice way to link in one click would be good and should be easy to add though currently adding mouse bindings something like shift right click would be a good choice is much harder than adding key bindings but note there s no need to undo the way i generally use link if the desired destination folder isn t the current selected target is to right click on the target which selects it and moves the message and because i have the automatic move to the next message on move or link option set select the message again and then link exmh only permits one uncomitted action to be selected for a message at a time that is one of delete move or link selecting any of those implicitly undoes any previous choice from the three so you cannot achieve a move by doing a link then delete then commit it needs to be link commit delete commit xmh was just the same there incidentally how s spring shaping up down under no meaningful comment from me i m not there at the minute but i m told that where i m from it is cold wet and miserable though has been better during the day sunny days cold nights for the past few in any case all of that is a good enough reason to stay away kre _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
halloechen i have requires saxon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER conflicts saxon NUMBER in my spec file but apparently rpm ignores all version numbers so requires saxon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER conflicts saxon NUMBER would install even with saxon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and requires saxon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER conflicts saxon NUMBER wouldn t install even with saxon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER what could be the reason for this tschoe torsten _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
halloechen on dienstag NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER schrieben sie question about require tag oops sorry now i found out that there is a noewsgroup tschoe torsten _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 the devices are there now thank gordon for reporting the problem and as i said you were the only one any further comments are very welcome download URL new spec URL ahh wonderful just tried out these and finally got sound working with my abit thNUMBERii raid s integrated audio i ve been pulling hair together with the helpful opensound people for quite some time now but we ve failed to get sound to work either with the drivers included in kernel or the commercial oss thanks a lot the rpms seem to be fine they worked for me out of the box on vanilla valhalla w latest errata ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER ville skyttä wrote the devices are there now thank gordon for reporting the problem and as i said you were the only one any further comments are very welcome download URL new spec URL ahh wonderful just tried out these and finally got sound working with my abit thNUMBERii raid s integrated audio i ve been pulling hair together with the helpful opensound people for quite some time now but we ve failed to get sound to work either with the drivers included in kernel or the commercial oss thanks a lot the rpms seem to be fine they worked for me out of the box on vanilla valhalla w latest errata except that i don t see an init script in the rpms a sample one designed for rh is supposed to be in utils alsasound could you take a look if it can be included cheers ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ville wrote thanks a lot the rpms seem to be fine they worked for me out of the box on vanilla valhalla w latest errata except that i don t see an init script in the rpms a sample one designed for rh is supposed to be in utils alsasound could you take a look if it can be included it doesn t need to as red hat linux already sets correct permissions on all alsa audio devices for locally logged in users through the console perms file and the modules conf files takes care of loading the right modules on demand also aumix and the scripts that come with red hat linux still work for controlling the volume so it s still saved and restored when the computer is halted even using alsa i m glad you got your card working with these i m now wondering if i won t maybe buy an amplifier that supports dolby digial decoding my current one only does pro logic since i ve read that alsa supports the s pdif optical output of the sound chip of my shuttle URL from what i can tell after only NUMBER days using it alsa rocks especially since having a full oss compatibility results that it breaks nothing at all matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER ville skyttä wrote thanks a lot the rpms seem to be fine they worked for me out of the box on vanilla valhalla w latest errata except that i don t see an init script in the rpms a sample one designed for rh is supposed to be in utils alsasound could you take a look if it can be included ok some more nits alsa xmms doesn t work if i don t have alsa lib devel installed but xmms dies on startup telling me cannot load alsa library URL cannot open shared object file no such file or directory URL is part of alsa lib devel if i install it the alsa xmms output plugins works fine i can t install the xine stuff because xine libs needs libglcore so NUMBER which i can t find anywhere nvidia stuff i have radeon NUMBER ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ville wrote ok some more nits alsa xmms doesn t work if i don t have alsa lib devel installed but xmms dies on startup telling me cannot load alsa library URL cannot open shared object file no such file or directory URL is part of alsa lib devel if i install it the alsa xmms output plugins works fine ok will fix i can t install the xine stuff because xine libs needs libglcore so NUMBER which i can t find anywhere nvidia stuff i have radeon NUMBER argh got bitten again will fix too thanks a lot for pointing these out matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote thanks a lot the rpms seem to be fine they worked for me out of the box on vanilla valhalla w latest errata except that i don t see an init script in the rpms a sample one designed for rh is supposed to be in utils alsasound could you take a look if it can be included it doesn t need to as red hat linux already sets correct permissions on all alsa audio devices for locally logged in users through the console perms file and the modules conf files takes care of loading the right modules on demand also aumix and the scripts that come with red hat linux still work for controlling the volume so it s still saved and restored when the computer is halted even using alsa ah the mixer stuff was what made me look for an init script in the first place i didn t bother to check whether the existing stuff would have worked with that will try that out you can assume silence success from what i can tell after only NUMBER days using it alsa rocks especially since having a full oss compatibility results that it breaks nothing at all agreed though with only NUMBER hours experience ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ville wrote ah the mixer stuff was what made me look for an init script in the first place i didn t bother to check whether the existing stuff would have worked with that will try that out you can assume silence success well from what i ve tried both the main and the pcm at least volume levels can be controlled either by alsamixer or the good old aumix from what i can tell after only NUMBER days using it alsa rocks especially since having a full oss compatibility results that it breaks nothing at all agreed though with only NUMBER hours experience i guess hope some other people from the list will try it out both problems you reported libasound so and wrong xine dependency are now fixed in the current packages oh it s maybe also worth pointing out i ve implemented at last sorting by both last change date and alphabetically for my build list in the php code URL and yes i accept patches comments suggestions about all those spec files matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
thanks for this i m going to give them another try one question how do i switch between digital out and analog out with alsa with emuNUMBERkNUMBER tools it s easy enough emu config d for digital emu config a for analog is there a similar method with alsa lance on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote followup to the story i ve now made a sub package of alsa driver called alsa kernel which contains only the kernel modules and alsa driver contains everything else from the original package device entries include files and docs this should allow installation of a single alsa driver package and multiple alsa kernel if you have more than one kernel installed right now the dependencies make it mandatory to have kernels installed through rpm people who install from source can still install the alsa modules from the source though the devices are there now thank gordon for reporting the problem and as i said you were the only one any further comments are very welcome download URL new spec URL if you aren t running kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for iNUMBER simply rebuild the alsa driver source rpm and you ll get a package for your running kernel matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL linux one stanza tip lost sub finding out files larger than given size lost NUMBER to find out all files in a dir over a given size try find path to dir_of_file type f size nk where n is a number like NUMBER for NUMBERmb and multiples thereof discussions on lih NUMBER jul NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote ah the mixer stuff was what made me look for an init script in the first place i didn t bother to check whether the existing stuff would have worked with that will try that out you can assume silence success well from what i ve tried both the main and the pcm at least volume levels can be controlled either by alsamixer or the good old aumix cool i ll try it out as well as the new rpms tomorrow from what i can tell after only NUMBER days using it alsa rocks especially since having a full oss compatibility results that it breaks nothing at all agreed though with only NUMBER hours experience i guess hope some other people from the list will try it out both problems you reported libasound so and wrong xine dependency are now fixed in the current packages thanks that was quick ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
ok i got alsa installed and there is no static inbetween mpNUMBERs like before which is great my setup is digital NUMBER NUMBER but sound is only coming from front NUMBER speakers and subwoofer rear speakers there is no sound also alsamixer or aumix are unresponsive as well lance on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER lance wrote thanks for this i m going to give them another try one question how do i switch between digital out and analog out with alsa with emuNUMBERkNUMBER tools it s easy enough emu config d for digital emu config a for analog is there a similar method with alsa lance on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote followup to the story i ve now made a sub package of alsa driver called alsa kernel which contains only the kernel modules and alsa driver contains everything else from the original package device entries include files and docs this should allow installation of a single alsa driver package and multiple alsa kernel if you have more than one kernel installed right now the dependencies make it mandatory to have kernels installed through rpm people who install from source can still install the alsa modules from the source though the devices are there now thank gordon for reporting the problem and as i said you were the only one any further comments are very welcome download URL new spec URL if you aren t running kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for iNUMBER simply rebuild the alsa driver source rpm and you ll get a package for your running kernel matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL linux one stanza tip lost sub finding out files larger than given size lost NUMBER to find out all files in a dir over a given size try find path to dir_of_file type f size nk where n is a number like NUMBER for NUMBERmb and multiples thereof discussions on lih NUMBER jul NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL linux one stanza tip lost sub finding out files larger than given size lost NUMBER to find out all files in a dir over a given size try find path to dir_of_file type f size nk where n is a number like NUMBER for NUMBERmb and multiples thereof discussions on lih NUMBER jul NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time lance wrote ok i got alsa installed and there is no static inbetween mpNUMBERs like before which is great my setup is digital NUMBER NUMBER but sound is only coming from front NUMBER speakers and subwoofer rear speakers there is no sound also alsamixer or aumix are unresponsive as well maybe you could find more info or tips on the alsa page for your card also you could try alsactl store editing etc asound state by hand for me it contains data similar to what i can control with alsamixer then run alsactl restore and see if you re able to change what you want that way matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou wrote i guess hope some other people from the list will try it out both problems you reported libasound so and wrong xine dependency are now fixed in the current packages oh it s maybe also worth pointing out i ve implemented at last sorting by both last change date and alphabetically for my build list in the php code URL and yes i accept patches comments suggestions about all those spec files sure thing i ve added to the spec some flags to remove oss and isa pnp support at build time if one wishes to so is s possible to do a rpmbuild recompile rpm without oss without isapnp i haven t included oss in my NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER because vtNUMBER on my motherboard is not supported yet and i m too lazy to recompile the kernel also having the kernel compiled by me i have no kernel source package installed i ve added a flag kernsrc that also can be used without to remove the dependency for kernel source at build time it would be nice to check the correct kernel include files actually exist lib modules uname r build include linux h though however i m a beginner in rpm building is it possible to buildrequire for a file not provided by a package at all i ve googled a bit and found no way to do that i was also considering adding some sort of flag for the with cards option in alsa s configure but don t know how to do that only found out about without from your first alsa driver spec and existing rpm docs don t help much oh and one more thing at first i ve installed the first version of alsa driver for NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER although i don t have that kernel to supply the dependency for the rest of the alsa rpm s and compiled the modules from source it created the dev files and all then wanted to make my own rpm for NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so now i m trying to rpmbuild the alsa kernel package removed all alsa rpms and tried my spec rpmbuild ba alsa driver spec mine without oss without isapnp without kernsrc but i get this long successful compile snipped warning file listed twice dev adsp warning file listed twice dev amidi finding provides usr lib rpm find provides finding requires usr lib rpm find requires prereq bin sh bin sh rpmlib payloadfileshaveprefix NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rpmlib compressedfilenames NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER requires interp bin sh bin sh requires rpmlib rpmlib payloadfileshaveprefix NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rpmlib compressedfilenames NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER requires post bin sh requires postun bin sh requires alsa kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER sbin depmod processing files alsa kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER frNUMBER_NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER finding provides usr lib rpm find provides finding requires usr lib rpm find requires prereq rpmlib payloadfileshaveprefix NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rpmlib compressedfilenames NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER requires rpmlib rpmlib payloadfileshaveprefix NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rpmlib compressedfilenames NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER requires alsa driver NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER checking for unpackaged file s usr lib rpm check files var tmp alsa driver NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER root error installed but unpackaged file s found etc makedev d NUMBERmacros etc rc d init d alsasound rpm build errors file listed twice dev adsp file listed twice dev amidi installed but unpackaged file s found etc makedev d NUMBERmacros etc rc d init d alsasound like i said i m a beginned with rpm building so i don t understand much of what s going on here the NUMBERmacros file is from the makedev rpm and alsasound was supposed to be installed by alsa driver i think it is not in the filesystem anyway i ve looked in var tmp alsa driver NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER root they are there in etc for NUMBERmacros i think the part that does it is this line in alsa driver spec cp a _sysconfdir makedev d NUMBERmacros buildroot _sysconfdir makedev d and alsasound is installed by buildidr makefile oh and i think i ve forgot to mention i m running beta null matthias silent and on the seventh day god was arrested for tresspassing ,0
once upon a time daniel wrote and yes i accept patches comments suggestions about all those spec files sure thing cool i ve added to the spec some flags to remove oss and isa pnp support at build time if one wishes to so is s possible to do a rpmbuild recompile rpm without oss without isapnp ok i ll add this also having the kernel compiled by me i have no kernel source package installed i ve added a flag kernsrc that also can be used without to remove the dependency for kernel source at build time it would be nice to check the correct kernel include files actually exist lib modules uname r build include linux h though however i m a beginner in rpm building is it possible to buildrequire for a file not provided by a package at all i ve googled a bit and found no way to do that requiring a file that isn t part of an rpm is not possible no except maybe by stopping the build process if it isn t found but that s errr ugly and i really think that for people who installed a kernel from sources the easiest is to install the alsa kernel drivers from source too i was also considering adding some sort of flag for the with cards option in alsa s configure but don t know how to do that only found out about without from your first alsa driver spec and existing rpm docs don t help much this would be a tricky one since to use the with name feature of rpmbuild i think you d need to add individual handling of each and every card oh and one more thing at first i ve installed the first version of alsa driver for NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER although i don t have that kernel to supply the dependency for the rest of the alsa rpm s and compiled the modules from source it created the dev files and all that s what the alsa driver is there for create all the base files excluding the kernel drivers what i would suggest for dependency reasons it to install an alsa kernel for the original kernel you ve kept it right and install alsa modules from source for custom kernels built from source then wanted to make my own rpm for NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so now i m trying to rpmbuild the alsa kernel package removed all alsa rpms and tried my spec rpmbuild ba alsa driver spec mine without oss without isapnp without kernsrc but i get this long successful compile snipped rpm build errors file listed twice dev adsp file listed twice dev amidi installed but unpackaged file s found etc makedev d NUMBERmacros etc rc d init d alsasound oh and i think i ve forgot to mention i m running beta null indeed the rpm NUMBER NUMBER snapshot in null has a few new features among which having the build fail when files are present in the build root but not listed in the files section i should remove them manually as part of the build process or maybe the new exclude path to file in the files section would do but i don t know how older versions of rpm would handle it on my null build system i ve simply set the variable _unpackaged_files_terminate_build NUMBER matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou wrote ok i ll add this cool requiring a file that isn t part of an rpm is not possible no except maybe by stopping the build process if it isn t found but that s errr ugly and i really think that for people who installed a kernel from sources the easiest is to install the alsa kernel drivers from source too yes it is but then alsa driver requires alsa kernel and i don t quite like nodeps this would be a tricky one since to use the with name feature of rpmbuild i think you d need to add individual handling of each and every card that s ok i was only considering it for the sake of tweaking anyway not for some real world need that s what the alsa driver is there for create all the base files excluding the kernel drivers what i would suggest for dependency reasons it to install an alsa kernel for the original kernel you ve kept it right and install alsa modules from source for custom kernels built from source um i keep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for emergency sitations like i forget to include keyboard support in kernel dumb me but alsa kernel_NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER does not require kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so that s ok matthias silent and on the seventh day god was arrested for tresspassing _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time axel wrote i am now relaxed again and pass this info on probably matthias saou himself is dude and some package has hardwired a path in his build directory it would be nice to find out which and fix it but i am using too many of the freshrpm suite to narrow it down indeed my usual login is dude and has been since long before the big lebowsky came out and it seems the some programs wrongly hard code my home directory when being compiled for instance dude python dude strings usr bin gentoo grep dude home dude dude python dude strings usr bin xine grep dude home dude redhat tmp xine root usr share locale these should probably be considered bugs in the program s build process especially for xine look at that i ll report them upstream if when i have some time thanks for noticing this matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi matthias i think i could do help you out with new plugins package for gkrellm NUMBER would you prefer to keep it as it is now or package every plugin separately the latter would be probably easier to maintain ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i wish i could answer your question but my laptop does not have the digital stuff hooked up so i so not know about it i have an excellent ess maestroNUMBER which oss supports pretty lame so i was forced to learn about alsa i have used these commands to explore alsa and my chip arecord l list devices arecord l list pcm decices i get some output like this arecord l card NUMBER maestroNUMBER ess allegro pci device NUMBER allegro allegro subdevices NUMBER NUMBER subdevice NUMBER subdevice NUMBER arecord l pcm list snip craploads of output i noticed that the output from this commands kind of maps to what the alsamixer or gamix have for what it is worth here is what i have in modules conf for my sound stuff alsa portion alias char major NUMBER snd oss free portion alias char major NUMBER soundcore alsa portion alias snd card NUMBER snd maestroNUMBER oss free portion alias sound slot NUMBER snd card NUMBER oss free portion card NUMBER alias sound service NUMBER NUMBER snd mixer oss bad alias sound service NUMBER NUMBER snd seq oss alias sound service NUMBER NUMBER snd pcm oss bad alias sound service NUMBER NUMBER snd seq oss alias sound service NUMBER NUMBER snd pcm oss alsa options optional options snd snd_major NUMBER snd_cards_limit NUMBER snd_device_mode NUMBER options snd maestroNUMBER snd_index NUMBER snd_id maestroNUMBER snd_amp_gpio NUMBER oss options optional alias snd card NUMBER off alias snd card NUMBER off alias snd card NUMBER off alias sound slot NUMBER off alias sound service NUMBER NUMBER off preserve mixer settings post install usr sbin alsactl restore maestroNUMBER pre remove usr sbin alsactl store maestroNUMBER post install usr sbin alsactl restore pre remove usr sbin alsactl store hope that helps good luck lance lance_tt bellsouth net wrote hello thanks for these rpms i removed the binary built from source tar gz and installed your srpm of gamix one quick question is there a way to switch between digital out and analog out with the alsa driver and utilities or for that matter with gamix i know with the oss drivers i was using it was as simple as emu config d for digital and emu config a for analog with the emu tools package for sblive i noticed there is sb live analog digital output jack in alsamixer but haven t figured out the key to use if this is the right control in mixer also i tried to expand gamix to display all possible controls but it defaults back to wave and music with lfe center surround and playback under wave this is how i control output of front and rear speakers for digital out surround and playback under music there are two controls but unresponsive i have a tuner and cassette deck hooked up to an audio video switch that goes into line in on the soundcard again with the oss drivers it was as simple as emu config d and emu config a digital out for anything coming from the computer analog out for the tuner and cassette deck i don t know if this is necessary to switch inbetween to get line in to work or not but an expansion of gamix would help where i could see all the controls any help would be greatly appreciated and thanks again for the gamix rpms kind regards lance linux one stanza tip lost sub command line shortcuts clear lost NUMBER tired of typing in clear every time you want the screen to be cleared press ctrl l this works for most shells except for ash bsh and ksh rtorvi vsnl net that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hello i have just found a small issue with the downloader NUMBER x update the ftp search engines are missing something like _datadir dNUMBERx ftpsearch xml thanks in advance che p s i love the xmms xosd plugin _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i ve noted that there are packaged versions of blackbox and hackedbox available from freshrpms what about fluxbox URL i d certainly enjoy a packaged version since its creators seem hesitant to provide rpms debs yes but no rpms doug __________________________________________________ do you yahoo yahoo finance get real time stock quotes URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi i made a spec file for it some weeks ago maybe it can be included in fresh if not at least you can use it i m attaching it here hope it might be some use for you does the trick for me might be an old version though but should still work nick on wednesday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER doug stewart wrote i ve noted that there are packaged versions of blackbox and hackedbox available from freshrpms what about fluxbox URL i d certainly enjoy a packaged version since its creators seem hesitant to provide rpms debs yes but no rpms doug __________________________________________________ do you yahoo yahoo finance get real time stock quotes URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
back when i had regular rhNUMBER NUMBER there was nothing better than apt get upgrade but now i m running null beta and i have these questions which version of apt can i use the rhNUMBER NUMBER version or the rawhide version is there a way to use apt to update null with the rpms available for null through upNUMBERdate since i prefer apt to that if i can use apt can i use it to get updates from these NUMBER different places NUMBER the null upNUMBERdate redhat upgrades NUMBER the null files at URL NUMBER the regular rhNUMBER NUMBER files from URL am i asking for too much simplicity in this complicated world that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER angles puglisi wrote if i can use apt can i use it to get updates from these NUMBER different places NUMBER the null upNUMBERdate redhat upgrades NUMBER the null files at URL NUMBER the regular rhNUMBER NUMBER files from URL you could build your own apt repository just mirror the needed directories e g by using a wget cron job symlink the needed rpms and recreate the repository it is already worth the trouble if you have more than one installation in any case in order to acces the mentioned places somebody must keep such a repository up to date be it yourself or someone else axel thimm URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER axel thimm wrote on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER angles puglisi wrote if i can use apt can i use it to get updates from these NUMBER different places NUMBER the null upNUMBERdate redhat upgrades NUMBER the null files at URL NUMBER the regular rhNUMBER NUMBER files from URL you could build your own apt repository just mirror the needed directories e g by using a wget cron job symlink the needed rpms and recreate the repository it is already worth the trouble if you have more than one installation always nice to have one to put stuff that overrides rh things like if you absolutely detest qt and some programs are rebuildable from sources with different configure options you can get src rpm edit spec bump release numberwith your initials and another number and rebuild insert into apt and let loose doesn t freshrpms have updates dir too maybe not quite as up to date as upNUMBERdate but still i would never use upNUMBERdate there is another repository at URL iirc not sure if that had the updates _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
i spun another alsaplayer build this time on my null box i do not know what this means but the curl stuff compiled in this time it s sounding damn cool with the new alsa drivers thanks to matthias for the alsa rpms great job bring sound to the masses URL URL URL URL that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi all folks i have apt installed and updated from URL but i failed using it apt get install mnt cdrom linux cdburner cdrtools cdrecord NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm processing file dependencies done reading package lists done building dependency tree done e couldn t find package mnt cdrom linux cdburner cdrtools cdrecord NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm the file cdrtools cdrecord NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm is there i performed another test copying the file cdrtools cdrecord NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm to root download apt get install root download cdrtools cdrecord NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm processing file dependencies done reading package lists done building dependency tree done e couldn t find package root download cdrtools cdrecord NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm still failed finally i rpm cdrtools cdrecord NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm from the cd and suceeded kindly advise what mistake i have committed thanks in advance stephen liu _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time stephen wrote apt get install mnt cdrom linux cdburner cdrtools cdrecord NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER rpm this is not how apt is meant to be used see gordon s answer to your post on the valhalla list for details matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi this is my first problem with one of the freshrpms rpms i just upgrade mplayer and now i get mplayer mplayer error while loading shared libraries libdvdnav so NUMBER cannot open shared object file no such file or directory i guess matthias has forgotten libdvdnav dependency they told me i needed winNUMBER or better so i chose linux _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 hello i just installed redhat NUMBER NUMBER and i think i have everything working properly anyway i want to install mplayer because i heard it can play quicktime movs i apt get source mplayer and dl d it to usr src i tried to just rpm rebuild mplayer NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm then i get mplayer NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm no such file or directory any help or a link to some document would be appreciated thanks rob _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
make sure you rebuild as root and you re in the directory that you downloaded the file also it might complain of a few dependencies but you can get these at URL except for gccNUMBER which you can find on your red hat cd red hat ftp or URL after you rebuild the source rpm it should install a binary rpm in usr src redhat rpms iNUMBER with all dependencies met install mplayer with rpm ivh mplayer NUMBER frNUMBER rpm and you should be good to go one last thing you will need the winNUMBER codecs i found them on google create a directory usr lib winNUMBER and place the codecs in there good luck lance on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER rob bains wrote hello i just installed redhat NUMBER NUMBER and i think i have everything working properly anyway i want to install mplayer because i heard it can play quicktime movs i apt get source mplayer and dl d it to usr src i tried to just rpm rebuild mplayer NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm then i get mplayer NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm no such file or directory any help or a link to some document would be appreciated thanks rob _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
lance wrote make sure you rebuild as root and you re in the directory that you downloaded the file also it might complain of a few dependencies but you can get these at URL except for gccNUMBER which you can find on your red hat cd red hat ftp or URL after you rebuild the source rpm it should install a binary rpm in usr src redhat rpms iNUMBER with all dependencies met install mplayer with rpm ivh mplayer NUMBER frNUMBER rpm and you should be good to go one last thing you will need the winNUMBER codecs i found them on google create a directory usr lib winNUMBER and place the codecs in there good luck lance i dl d gccNUMBER and libgccNUMBER but i still get the same error message when i try rpm rebuild or recompile i do this as root i dl d as root also thanks for the help any more idea what s going on i tried to just rpm rebuild mplayer NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm then i get mplayer NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm no such file or directory _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
once upon a time rob wrote i dl d gccNUMBER and libgccNUMBER but i still get the same error message when i try rpm rebuild or recompile i do this as root i dl d as root also thanks for the help any more idea what s going on i ve never installed source rpms with apt but i suppose that if you get file not found it s because the source rpm was installed to see if this is the case go to usr src redhat specs and if you see mplayer spec you ll just need to do rpm bb mplayer spec to get a binary build in usr src redhat rpms iNUMBER matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
title page has a login screen and i can t seem to get the apt indexes anymore is it just me or is something going on there additive eNUMBER not suitable for vegetarians URL ,0
once upon a time harri wrote title page has a login screen and i can t seem to get the apt indexes anymore is it just me or is something going on there you can t get the file index from here either URL during the past few days i ve experienced connection problems with that site from time to time but for me right now it s working matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on fri feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote once upon a time harri wrote title page has a login screen and i can t seem to get the apt indexes anymore is it just me or is something going on there you can t get the file index from here either URL the requested url apt files was not found on this server during the past few days i ve experienced connection problems with that site from time to time but for me right now it s working maybe it s temporary win a live rat for your mother in law ,0
once upon a time harri wrote you can t get the file index from here either URL the requested url apt files was not found on this server very strange then it works fine from here even shift reloading and with no proxy whatsoever during the past few days i ve experienced connection problems with that site from time to time but for me right now it s working maybe it s temporary if you need another apt repository with red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER files there are a few others see URL matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on fri feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote once upon a time harri wrote during the past few days i ve experienced connection problems with that site from time to time but for me right now it s working maybe it s temporary if you need another apt repository with red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER files there are a few others see URL i have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own at orkplace blades remiel grep nixia etc apt sources list rpm URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER gnomehide rpm src URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER gnomehide ah that s it they had newer gnome there when life hands you a lemon make batteries then go electrocute someone stevo scary devil monastery ,0
hey i have a problem i have a rpms that i have installed that i want to uninstall i do it like so rpm e rpm package and it gives the error package not installed so i install it like so rpm i rpm package and it gives the error package already installed so i force it to install like so rpm i force rpm package this installs it and then i try to uninstall it again and it still gives me the same error package not installed how can i get it to recognize that the package is indeed installed it and or get it to unstall it thanx in advance brian french french _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time brian wrote hey i have a problem i have a rpms that i have installed that i want to uninstall i do it like so rpm e rpm package and it gives the error package not installed so i install it like so rpm i rpm package and it gives the error package already installed so i force it to install like so rpm i force rpm package this installs it and then i try to uninstall it again and it still gives me the same error package not installed how can i get it to recognize that the package is indeed installed it and or get it to unstall it you re a bit too vague on your rpm package here maybe this will help you root python apg rpm e apg root python apg rpm ivh apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm preparing NUMBER NUMBER apg NUMBER root python apg rpm e apg root python apg rpm ivh apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm preparing NUMBER NUMBER apg NUMBER root python apg rpm e apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER root python apg rpm ivh apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm preparing NUMBER NUMBER apg NUMBER root python apg rpm e apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm error package apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm is not installed root python apg you can just put the name of the name and version and even the release but the entire filename will not work matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
oh ok thanx alot i was puttin the entire rpm package name like php NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERplNUMBER iNUMBER rpm that s why it wasn t working original message from rpm zzzlist admin URL mailto rpm list admin URL on behalf of matthias saou by way of matthias saou matthias egwn net sent friday february NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to rpm zzzlist URL subject re prob w install uninstall once upon a time brian wrote hey i have a problem i have a rpms that i have installed that i want to uninstall i do it like so rpm e rpm package and it gives the error package not installed so i install it like so rpm i rpm package and it gives the error package already installed so i force it to install like so rpm i force rpm package this installs it and then i try to uninstall it again and it still gives me the same error package not installed how can i get it to recognize that the package is indeed installed it and or get it to unstall it you re a bit too vague on your rpm package here maybe this will help you root python apg rpm e apg root python apg rpm ivh apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm preparing NUMBER NUMBER apg NUMBER root python apg rpm e apg root python apg rpm ivh apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm preparing NUMBER NUMBER apg NUMBER root python apg rpm e apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER root python apg rpm ivh apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm preparing NUMBER NUMBER apg NUMBER root python apg rpm e apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm error package apg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm is not installed root python apg you can just put the name of the name and version and even the release but the entire filename will not work matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
on fri feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER brian french wrote hey i have a problem i have a rpms that i have installed that i want to uninstall i do it like so rpm e rpm package and it gives the error package not installed so i install it like so its a little confusing but you install rpms like rpm ivh packagename NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rpm uninstalls must be done without the version info like rpm e packagename ie rpm e sendmail or rpm e sendmail devel give that a go and it should work np phil rpm i rpm package and it gives the error package already installed so i force it to install like so rpm i force rpm package this installs it and then i try to uninstall it again and it still gives me the same error package not installed how can i get it to recognize that the package is indeed installed it and or get it to unstall it thanx in advance brian french french _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL i say bring on the brand new renaissance cause i think i m ready i ve been shaking all night long but my hands are steady gord downie URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hiya i always seem to get errors when i do an apt update is this a problem on the repository itself or on my end or possibly a timeout in the connection due to my connection being a crappy modem root spawn root apt get update hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base pkglist gnomehide hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base pkglist os ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release os err URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base pkglist updates bad header line hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release updates err URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base pkglist freshrpms NUMBER bad request err URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release freshrpms bad header line hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base srclist freshrpms ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release gnomehide ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base mirrors hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release freshrpms ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base mirrors ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base mirrors ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base mirrors ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base mirrors failed to fetch URL bad header line failed to fetch URL NUMBER bad request failed to fetch URL bad header line m if i seem super human i have been misunderstood c dream theater mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i have failed dependencies in rpm database to i am unable to use apt get i requests to run apt get f install to fix these dependencies however i get these errors when running apt get f install root localhost root apt get f install processing file dependencies done reading package lists done building dependency tree done correcting dependencies done the following extra packages will be installed libgcj the following new packages will be installed libgcj NUMBER packages upgraded NUMBER newly installed NUMBER to remove replace and NUMBER not upgraded need to get NUMBERkb of archives after unpacking NUMBERkb will be used do you want to continue y n y get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER redhat os libgcj NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERkb fetched NUMBERkb in NUMBERs NUMBERkb s executing rpm u preparing NUMBER NUMBER libgcj error unpacking of archive failed on file usr share libgcj zip NUMBERcNUMBERbNUMBEReNUMBER cpio mdNUMBER sum mismatch e sub process bin rpm returned an error code NUMBER root localhost root _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time mark wrote hiya i always seem to get errors when i do an apt update is this a problem on the repository itself or on my end or possibly a timeout in the connection due to my connection being a crappy modem root spawn root apt get update hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base pkglist gnomehide hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base pkglist os ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release os err URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base pkglist updates bad header line hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release updates err URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base pkglist freshrpms NUMBER bad request err URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release freshrpms bad header line hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base srclist freshrpms ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release gnomehide ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER base mirrors hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER release freshrpms it works for me it should works with or without the en subdirectory does it always give you the same error each time do you use an proxy server root python root apt get update hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER base srclist os hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release os hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER base srclist updates hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release updates get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER base pkglist os NUMBERkb hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release os get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER base pkglist updates NUMBERkb hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release updates hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER base pkglist freshrpms hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release freshrpms hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER base srclist os hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release os hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER base srclist updates hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release updates hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER base srclist freshrpms hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release freshrpms ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en arch base mirrors ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en arch base mirrors ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en arch base mirrors fetched NUMBERkb in NUMBERmNUMBERs NUMBER NUMBERkb s processing file dependencies done reading package lists done building dependency tree done w URL will not be authenticated w URL will not be authenticated w URL will not be authenticated root python root matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time lance wrote i have failed dependencies in rpm database to i am unable to use apt get i requests to run apt get f install to fix these dependencies however i get these errors when running apt get f install error unpacking of archive failed on file usr share libgcj zip NUMBERcNUMBERbNUMBEReNUMBER cpio mdNUMBER sum mismatch e sub process bin rpm returned an error code NUMBER root localhost root i d say that the file apt downloaded is corrupted maybe trying apt get clean to remove all downloaded files first would solve the problem matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hello tried apt get clean with same results on sat NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote once upon a time lance wrote i have failed dependencies in rpm database to i am unable to use apt get i requests to run apt get f install to fix these dependencies however i get these errors when running apt get f install error unpacking of archive failed on file usr share libgcj zip NUMBERcNUMBERbNUMBEReNUMBER cpio mdNUMBER sum mismatch e sub process bin rpm returned an error code NUMBER root localhost root i d say that the file apt downloaded is corrupted maybe trying apt get clean to remove all downloaded files first would solve the problem matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi i m building an rpm for the resin webserver and i basically want to install the entire tarball under a diretory but the tarball includes subdirectorys in my spec i have install s m NUMBER name version release rpm_build_root usr local resin and i m getting install resin NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bin is a directory install resin NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER conf is a directory is there a proper nice way i should handle this m if i seem super human i have been misunderstood c dream theater mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on fri feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER harri haataja wrote i have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own at orkplace olen ajatellut pystyttää itselleni lokaalin apt varaston kun suomesta ei tunnu löytyvän julkista peiliä osaisitko avittaa hiukan asiassa eli kuinka lähteä liikkeelle ensin kannattanee peilata varsinainen rh n rpm t jostain vaan millä softalla rsync ja mistä funet tuo kannattaa tehdä ajatuksia peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
sorry about that didn t think before sending so i didn t realize that reply to was to the list and not to the sender as it usually is anyawy i was asking harri if he could point me a few advices on how to build my own apt repositry for rh updates there is a tutorial of somekind at URL which i m following right now but if there is some other good advices let me know regards peter on mon feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER peter peltonen wrote on fri feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER harri haataja wrote i have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own at orkplace olen ajatellut pystyttää itselleni lokaalin apt varaston kun suomesta ei tunnu löytyvän julkista peiliä osaisitko avittaa hiukan asiassa eli kuinka lähteä liikkeelle ensin kannattanee peilata varsinainen rh n rpm t jostain vaan millä softalla rsync ja mistä funet tuo kannattaa tehdä ajatuksia peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time peter wrote on fri feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER harri haataja wrote i have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own at orkplace olen ajatellut pystyttää itselleni lokaalin apt varaston kun suomesta ei tunnu löytyvän julkista peiliä osaisitko avittaa hiukan asiassa eli kuinka lähteä liikkeelle ensin kannattanee peilata varsinainen rh n rpm t jostain vaan millä softalla rsync ja mistä funet tuo kannattaa tehdä ajatuksia wow finnish seems even more complicated than german to me could you send an english translation next time i really didn t understand a thing and i assume i m not the only one matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
peter peltonen wrote sorry about that didn t think before sending so i didn t realize that reply to was to the list and not to the sender as it usually is how about removing the reply to to the list _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER peter peltonen wrote on fri feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER harri haataja wrote i have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own at orkplace olen ajatellut pystyttää itselleni lokaalin apt varaston kun suomesta ei tunnu löytyvän julkista peiliä osaisitko avittaa hiukan asiassa eli kuinka lähteä liikkeelle ensin kannattanee peilata varsinainen rh n rpm t jostain vaan millä softalla rsync ja mistä funet tuo kannattaa tehdä ajatuksia i ll post my own repository story here anyway hope no one minds it may freely be commented on or used in another text i have a directory like this tree d currentNUMBER srpms current srpms gccNUMBER redhat rpms current rpms gccNUMBER base redhat NUMBER_NUMBER srpms os redhat rpms os link to rh network install image base testing srpms testing redhat rpms testing base NUMBER directories i throw updates to currentNUMBER s rpms and my own stuff with makefile to testing after each new package nice genbasedir s progress topdir topdir testing redhat testing for s to work you need to make release files pinch someones for exmple this stuff is found under apache i put that url my keys and all that into apt conf on the machines on the network and apt away as for fi mirrors funet is very slow i think i use tuxfamily for updates but when i see errata i usually also put that to my own one so rest of the machines have a shorter path to it funet hosts a whole load of mirrors and projects it used to be is the main mirror for linux it was one of the big pub ftp sites if there was a definite apt repository maybe they might mirror that as well i doubt rh would be very keen on using apt and forking a distribution doesn t seem like an easy option someone should just start a project barry also was quick to point out that the titanium uses torque screws as opposed to phillips screws we re not sure why this matters even a little bit but barry sure seemed to think it was interesting that s why mac geeks scare us zdnet powerbook titanium review _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER peter peltonen wrote i started wondering how does apt react when it finds a newer kernel in the bunch of to be updated files look at etc apt apt conf i think kernel matches the kernel packages apart from those matched by the rest smp enterprise i think it won t do anything about the kernels come to think of it the abovementioned might have nothing to do with it i explicitly use apt get install kernel and then from the list pick a version and then install kernel NUMBER NUMBER foo bar and has anyone ever tried to do a dist upgrade say from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER should it work if not why should haven t tried with dist upgrade but i have put NUMBER NUMBER netboot mirror ie NUMBER NUMBER into sources list and run install step by step for iirc everything worked ok i think there ll be a few rpmnew files worth checking such as especially passwd and group i think there was a group change lock it feels great to wake up and not know what day it is doesn t it _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time peter wrote i started wondering how does apt react when it finds a newer kernel in the bunch of to be updated files it skips it see the etc apt apt conf file for this and has anyone ever tried to do a dist upgrade say from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER should it work if not why i ve done a dist upgrade from NUMBER NUMBER to a quite broken rawhide release it was a mess still it went much faster and smoother than if i had done it manually with rpm u or f i think that updates between stable releases should still be done with the installer since iirc sometimes a few twitches are done by anaconda to migrate configurations to new formats it should work though i still prefer backuping config files and reinstalling a clean system when i have the time matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote it skips it see the etc apt apt conf file for this in my apt conf reads snip rpm leave list empty to disable allowedduppkgs kernel kernel smp kernel enterprise holdpkgs kernel source kernel headers snip if i understand this correctly then only kernel source and kernel headers are held from being installed but kernel will be installed right maybe i should test this on some vanilla system peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hiya i just myself an rpm and when i did uvh to upgrade the earlier version i had installed also from my rpm i got root spawn iNUMBER rpm uvh mulberry NUMBER NUMBER bNUMBER iNUMBER rpm preparing NUMBER NUMBER mulberry NUMBER error dbNUMBER error NUMBER from db close db_incomplete cache flush was unable to complete whats the db_incomplete mean it all seems to have installed ok thou m if i seem super human i have been misunderstood c dream theater mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
mark derricutt wrote hiya i just myself an rpm and when i did uvh to upgrade the earlier version i had installed also from my rpm i got root spawn iNUMBER rpm uvh mulberry NUMBER NUMBER bNUMBER iNUMBER rpm preparing NUMBER NUMBER mulberry NUMBER error dbNUMBER error NUMBER from db close db_incomplete cache flush was unable to complete it s not the rpm it s the rpm system with you the cache seems to have rottened try removing var lib rpm __db _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
do i need to do anything to recreate anything after deleting this i did notice an rpm i made the other day didn t work and just sat there for ages seemingly doing nothing which probably did this ok now i get fetched NUMBER NUMBERkb in NUMBERmNUMBERs NUMBERb s error cannot get exclusive lock on var lib rpm packages error cannot open packages index using dbNUMBER operation not permitted NUMBER e could not open rpm database cannot open packages index using dbNUMBER operation not permitted NUMBER arrrrg on tuesday february NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER roy magne mo rmo sunnmore net wrote it s not the rpm it s the rpm system with you the cache seems to have rottened try removing var lib rpm __db m if i seem super human i have been misunderstood c dream theater mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
never mind there was some cron thing doing rpm qf seems fine now on wednesday february NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mark derricutt mark URL wrote fetched NUMBER NUMBERkb in NUMBERmNUMBERs NUMBERb s error cannot get exclusive lock on var lib rpm packages error cannot open packages index using dbNUMBER operation not permitted NUMBER e could not open rpm database cannot open packages index using dbNUMBER operation not permitted NUMBER m if i seem super human i have been misunderstood c dream theater mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
mark derricutt wrote never mind there was some cron thing doing rpm qf seems fine now on wednesday february NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mark derricutt mark talios com wrote fetched NUMBER NUMBERkb in NUMBERmNUMBERs NUMBERb s error cannot get exclusive lock on var lib rpm packages error cannot open packages index using dbNUMBER operation not permitted NUMBER e could not open rpm database cannot open packages index using dbNUMBER operation not permitted NUMBER you can do a rpm rebuilddb too _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
two issues snip sorry but the following packages have unmet dependencies openssh depends openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa but NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER is installed php pgsql depends postgresql but it is not installed depends libpq so NUMBER e unmet dependencies try using f snip NUMBER i have the following openssl packages installed snip openssl perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER opensslNUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa NUMBER openssl devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER snip the opensslNUMBERa package should provide the openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa compatibility but apt doesn t think so NUMBER i have postgresql installed from the source so that s why i need php pgsql is there a way to tell apt about packages i don t want it to complain about peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on wed feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER peter peltonen wrote two issues snip sorry but the following packages have unmet dependencies openssh depends openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa but NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER is installed php pgsql depends postgresql but it is not installed depends libpq so NUMBER e unmet dependencies try using f snip NUMBER i have the following openssl packages installed snip openssl perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER opensslNUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa NUMBER openssl devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER snip the opensslNUMBERa package should provide the openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa compatibility but apt doesn t think so i believe that s just a matter of string parsing if someone were to fix the openssh package removing the explicit requires i believe the automagic binary handler would figure the right libraries to use and install i haven t met an openssh like that and in worst case i ve had NUMBER different openssl libraries wtf can t they just bump a major version if it s incompatible NUMBER i have postgresql installed from the source so that s why i need php pgsql is there a way to tell apt about packages i don t want it to complain about i have a few such things with jdk imlib kernel dri version something and ive just made dummy packages with verbose warning attached that explicitly provide those capabilities or claim to that is if you only want to go NUMBER miles can you begin with a halfstep ,0
once upon a time harri wrote on wed feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER peter peltonen wrote two issues snip sorry but the following packages have unmet dependencies openssh depends openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa but NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER is installed php pgsql depends postgresql but it is not installed depends libpq so NUMBER e unmet dependencies try using f snip NUMBER i have the following openssl packages installed snip openssl perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER opensslNUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa NUMBER openssl devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER snip the opensslNUMBERa package should provide the openssl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa compatibility but apt doesn t think so i believe that s just a matter of string parsing if someone were to fix the openssh package removing the explicit requires i believe the automagic binary handler would figure the right libraries to use and install i haven t met an openssh like that and in worst case i ve had NUMBER different openssl libraries wtf can t they just bump a major version if it s incompatible strange all my openssh packages don t explicitly requires a version of openssl what version of openssh do you have is it an official red hat package i suppose it isn t and using red hat s rpms will solve your problem what you need to know for openssl is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb is libcrypto so NUMBER and libssl so NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER is libcrypto so NUMBER and libssl so NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb is libcrypto so NUMBER and libssl so NUMBER now in all red hat packages i ve seen so far the only dependency is on those files and not on openssl version matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i installed apt get yesterday and liked it for a couple hours anyway late last night i started to get errors like root theshadows apt get update e method http has died unexpectedly e tried to dequeue a fetching object e tried to dequeue a fetching object e tried to dequeue a fetching object e tried to dequeue a fetching object e tried to dequeue a fetching object e tried to dequeue a fetching object e tried to dequeue a fetching object i get the same errors two like the first line instead of one with apt get update i was wondering why this would happen i would appreciate any help you all can give me thanks govind salinas icq NUMBER aim dyerthscum ,0
on wed feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER harri haataja wrote install i haven t met an openssh like that and in worst case i ve had NUMBER different openssl libraries wtf can t they just bump a major version if it s incompatible so what should i with the openssl thing something and ive just made dummy packages with verbose warning attached that explicitly provide those capabilities or claim to that is how do i make such packages peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on wed feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote strange all my openssh packages don t explicitly requires a version of openssl what version of openssh do you have is it an official red hat package i suppose it isn t and using red hat s rpms will solve your problem openssh NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpNUMBER NUMBER i think that is directly from openssh site it s from the rh NUMBER NUMBER that i upgraded to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER doesn t ship with openssh i probably should downgrade to the versoin rh provides except i can t do that as i don t have physical access to that box and downgrading ssh packages over ssh doesn t sound like a bright idea peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time peter wrote on wed feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote strange all my openssh packages don t explicitly requires a version of openssl what version of openssh do you have is it an official red hat package i suppose it isn t and using red hat s rpms will solve your problem openssh NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpNUMBER NUMBER i think that is directly from openssh site it s from the rh NUMBER NUMBER that i upgraded to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER doesn t ship with openssh that explains i probably should downgrade to the versoin rh provides except i can t do that as i don t have physical access to that box and downgrading ssh packages over ssh doesn t sound like a bright idea well with NUMBER NUMBER i ve seen a few problems with doing that but as of NUMBER NUMBER it s really wonderful ever tried of completely uninstalling all openssh related packages while being connected through ssh well it works of course if the connection cuts at that moment you re stuck but a simple upgrade with official red hat packages also works like a charm matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on wed feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER harri haataja wrote i have a few such things with jdk imlib kernel dri version something and ive just made dummy packages with verbose warning attached that explicitly provide those capabilities or claim to that is hm one could do this with rpm s justdb switch too without having to make a dummy package right i was wondering that this is a bit dangerous if there is a update for my software as the dummy package might get updated with it overwriting the installation i ve done from source not good is there really no nodeps kind of switch in apt get peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
about apt conf there are these lines snip rpm leave list empty to disable allowedduppkgs kernel kernel smp kernel enterprise holdpkgs kernel source kernel headers snip how do i tell apt hold all kernel packages can i use syntax like kernel and i don t quite understand what the part kernel means peter _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on thu feb NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER peter peltonen wrote about apt conf there are these lines snip rpm leave list empty to disable allowedduppkgs kernel kernel smp kernel enterprise holdpkgs kernel source kernel headers snip how do i tell apt hold all kernel packages can i use syntax like kernel and i don t quite understand what the part kernel means you could read about regular expressions kernel matches kernel and nothimg more kerne kernel smp and kernel enterprise are the kernel packages you might be running in a rh system packages like kernel headers kernel boot and kernel doc aren t matched if it just said kernel it would match all those packages you were good with that recorder nokkahuilu soitit hyvin sitä mankkaa suomennos men behaving badly _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 thanks for the great work mathias but i would like to point out that this list is fastly become the apt rpm list instead of the rpm list the discussion concerning apt is overwhelming maybe another list is in order for those having trouble with apt rpm apt rpm hotline URL though i think apt rpm is a great tool i don t use it and would like to get back to talk of new packages and rpm building techniques dtd daniel t drea dandanielle URL URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
once upon a time dtd wrote thanks for the great work mathias but i would like to point out that this list is fastly become the apt rpm list instead of the rpm list the discussion concerning apt is overwhelming maybe another list is in order for those having trouble with apt rpm apt rpm hotline URL though i think apt rpm is a great tool i don t use it and would like to get back to talk of new packages and rpm building techniques hmmm know what on URL the apt list has been up for a while now there is almost no traffic though since i wanted to keep that list for apt rpm on the server side mirrors building repositories etc but hey it could be a good place for general apt rpm questions matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
hi all i ll be leaving this evening until next monday with no access to whatsoever to a single computer until then woohoo real holidays so don t be worried if there s a new release of insert your favorite freshrpms package here and that it s not updated quickly despite your many requests to the list before going i did repackage the latest hackedbox and lbreakoutNUMBER that both came out today have fun i will matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote hi all i ll be leaving this evening until next monday with no access to whatsoever to a single computer until then woohoo real holidays i don t think i could take it the network was down for an hour here and i was climbing the walls enjoy chris kloiber _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote before going i did repackage the latest hackedbox and lbreakoutNUMBER that both came out today have fun i will fun here too recompiled gnome NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER today have a nice and good time regards matthias _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time chris wrote on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote hi all i ll be leaving this evening until next monday with no access to whatsoever to a single computer until then woohoo real holidays i don t think i could take it the network was down for an hour here and i was climbing the walls i can t stand it either when it s at work or home and i d planned on doing something that required network access but i really feel like i need a break now away from work pressure that almost drove me nuts all summer ah the joys of responsibilities six days without computers ahead but six days driving my NUMBER bandit roadster bike i won t be miserable nor get bored don t worry for me i also have the first lord of the rings book to finish half way through now and the two others to read lots of sane and non wired occupations ahead oh did i mention beer drinking with friends matthias really happy to be on holidayyyy for the first time this year matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 URL there s a realy nasty shortage on sequencers actually i d like this running on my main box which is irix but that i ll probably try to tackle myself rule NUMBER all software sucks rule NUMBER all hardware sucks rule NUMBER my vacuum cleaner is hardware it never obeys rule NUMBER tanuki the raccoon dog scary devil monastery _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi just the kind of announce i make once in a while i ve rebuilt a new alsaplayer package based on angle s one i ve rebuilt a hopefully final version frNUMBER of the alsa driver and alsa kernel packages which fix all known smp build issues both can be found here URL i ve also repackaged gkrellm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with at last a separate package for the server that can be installed standalone and doesn t even require glibNUMBER URL last but not least my latest proftpd NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER package incorporates some nifty new features you can use any of with ldap with mysql and with postgres when rebuilding the source rpm with rpmbuild to enable desired extra authentication methods and all package requirements are set accordingly and the release tag is changed too URL the usual place i think i ll use this with whatever switch more and more where possible some other of my package already use it like the xmame for its output targets sqlrelay for its modules and my latest sylpheed claws spec to enable pilot support as usual feedback and comments are welcome matthias ps yup i m back from my holidays clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote i think i ll use this with whatever switch more and more where possible nifty i ve been thinking about that too any good ideas how to document those targets description ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
greetings ps yup i m back from my holidays i hope you did not miss us at all NUMBER i think i ll use this with whatever switch more and more where possible mmm great stuff now to get the redhat samba packager to do the same thing i have used there spec file and fun a few problems in it and one of them was just hashing out things for other use now to get to grips with the kernel still have not found and easy way to rebuild the kernel without having to wait and hour for it to generate the headers for all arch arrrrhhhh mailed lee _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time c lee wrote i think i ll use this with whatever switch more and more where possible mmm great stuff now to get the redhat samba packager to do the same thing i m sure that if you file a bugzilla entry with a relevant patch against the spec file chances of getting the change done are on your side i have used there spec file and fun a few problems in it and one of them was just hashing out things for other use now to get to grips with the kernel still have not found and easy way to rebuild the kernel without having to wait and hour for it to generate the headers for all arch arrrrhhhh the problem is that with foo without bar is clearly not meant to change deeply the way a package is built its use would be more like enabling disabling gpg ldap whateversql support in packages as it s not possible to use something like with foo bar which could be used for a much wider scope matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote i ve rebuilt a new alsaplayer package based on angle s one cool one less package to maintain one interesting thing about alsaplayer is that redhat s xmms package in rhNUMBER will probably not play mpNUMBER files but alsaplayer does play mpNUMBERs out of the box also they are developing rapidly in their cvs and looks like their next version of alsaplaer will be pretty cool but i have no idea when it will be ready that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
have you thought of bumping up sylpheed claws i see sylpheed got a bump show some claws love jesse keating URL mondo devteam www mondorescue org was i helpful let others know URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
angles puglisi angles aminvestments com wrote also they are developing rapidly in their cvs and looks like their next version of alsaplaer will be pretty cool but i have no idea when it will be ready ahh oops they just released that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time jesse wrote have you thought of bumping up sylpheed claws i see sylpheed got a bump show some claws love well in sylheed s claws branch you need to wait a bit for the developers to backport all the updates from the main branch before getting a release with the same version number right now the latest claws release is still NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERclaws URL but as it s the primary mailer i use you can be sure that as soon as it s updated to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ll update my build matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi has anyone an answer for me the mplayer documentation still suggests to use them for xNUMBER architectures thanks regards axel on sat jun NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER axel thimm wrote are there perhaps licensing issues which forbid such a practice or any other reasons the reason i ask is that i have seen performance and also some feature differences fullscreen w o keeping aspect ratio visual artifacts on nvidia comparing with or without the winNUMBER codecs the mplayer authors seem to recommend using them for xNUMBER architectures beware i am no mplayer codecs whatever expert i may be totally lost axel thimm URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time axel wrote has anyone an answer for me the mplayer documentation still suggests to use them for xNUMBER architectures well i think my avifile build still needs the winNUMBER codecs to be able to run manually copied into usr lib winNUMBER but personally i ve been very happy with mplayer s default which is ffmpeg s ffdivx decoder for nearly all the divx files i used the only ones that still require from my own experience the use of the winNUMBER codecs are the ones encoded with a strange divx NUMBER sound format and i ve really not seen any quality or speed improvements when using them matthias on sat jun NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER axel thimm wrote are there perhaps licensing issues which forbid such a practice or any other reasons the reason i ask is that i have seen performance and also some feature differences fullscreen w o keeping aspect ratio visual artifacts on nvidia comparing with or without the winNUMBER codecs the mplayer authors seem to recommend using them for xNUMBER architectures beware i am no mplayer codecs whatever expert i may be totally lost clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 btw i just a found a quite nice looking apt repositry for all kinds of audio apps at URL peter on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER angles puglisi wrote matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote i ve rebuilt a new alsaplayer package based on angle s one cool one less package to maintain one interesting thing about alsaplayer is that redhat s xmms package in rhNUMBER will probably not play mpNUMBER files but alsaplayer does play mpNUMBERs out of the box also they are developing rapidly in their cvs and looks like their next version of alsaplaer will be pretty cool but i have no idea when it will be ready that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote but as it s the primary mailer i use you can be sure that as soon as it s updated to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ll update my build it got updated jesse keating URL mondo devteam www mondorescue org was i helpful let others know URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i need to experiment with ripping out all my sophisticated cut paste code this is mostly historical accident from dealing with very early versions of tk and the emacs cutbuffer and other wierd junk you can too by hacking upon seditbind tcl appropriately hal devore said on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER tony tony nugent wrote tony i can t even mark text in an exmh message window and then tony paste it into a terminal window the cut buffer seems to tony be completely empty and its previous contents are no tony longer there either brent confessed recently that he had tried to subvert the x model s of copy and paste not in those words but that was how i read it i have a lot of trouble copying and pasting from or to exmh across a vnc link from things in the vncviewer to things not in it and vice versa as long as i stick to apps being normally displayed on my x server i don t have much of a problem my recollection from my x programming days is that the x model like everything in x is more complex than the human brain can handle it also is very different from the ms windows model and i get the feeling that tk tries to unify those two models and fails not sure what the exmh specific contribution to the confusion is frankly hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
it s all here in these NUMBER lines otherwise known as the i ll try my damnest to paste something procedure return the current selection from any window or cut buffer NUMBER proc text_selection if catch selection get sel if catch selection get selection clipboard sel if catch cutbuffer get NUMBER sel return return sel this is in textselection tcl and is what exmh uses to find text to paste it is that last cutbuffer get that is wacky because exmh sticks its own deletions into that little know stash and is probably the only application on the planet that still looks there we should probably just disable that try this variant proc text_selection if catch selection get sel if catch selection get selection clipboard sel return return sel everything funnels through here so you just need to hack this one spot rick baartman said i ve never understood the mouse buffer operation with exmh either here s th e behaviour i have i have exmh and xemacs windows up and a terminal window i also have gnomeNUMBER NUMBER running and enlightenment as wm i select text in the ex mh window and while it is highlighted i can paste into anything else if i sel ect it and then click so the highlighting is off then what i paste is not the recently selected text in exmh but an old selection if i select in xemacs and leave it highlighted i can paste it into exmh sedit window but if it is no longer highlighted what i paste is an old selection i can live with this behaviour except for one additional thing if nothing is highlighted then w hat i paste into exmh is different from what i paste into other windows to be m ore specific here s what gets pasted if nothing is highlighted application what gets pasted xemacs whatever was last selected unless it was last selected in exmh xterm same as xemacs abiword nothing nedit nothing sedit whatever was last highlighted in sedit and overwritten the last needs some amplification if i highlight something in sedit then obviously that s what gets pasted if the highlighting is off then what get s pasted is not what was last highlighted in sedit but what was last highligh ted and typed over i have type kills sel on it seems that exmh and sedit are the oddballs here very often when i try to paste something in sedit i end up muttering wtf rick _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 hal devore said brent said in his book this paste function can be convenient but it turns out that users still need to keep track of the difference between the two selections if a user only understands the clipboard then the user of primary is only surprising i learned that it is best to have a separate paste user action for the two selections the convention is that buttonrelease NUMBER sets the insert point and inserts the primary selection the paste event e g the paste key simply inserts the clipboard selection at the current insert point yeah i learned by hearing exmh users scream in agony sorry about all that we should be able to clean this up if you grep for bind in seditbind you quickly find the text_selection proc i described in the previous email brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 kevin oberman said it did for me but i am not willing to say it is not a tcl tk issue as other apps seemed to work ok for cut and paste and tk does its clipboard stuff a bit differently than most toolkits so i m not about to place blame just reporting my experience one more salvo on x and cut paste x specifies at least two mechanisms for cut paste but as usual mandates no policy windows and macintosh have a slightly different mechanism and one uniform policy i m quite sure that tk implements all primary and clipboard selections accurately the primary selection is the one that is tied to the visible selection on your x display the clipboard selection is the one with the explicit copy step and is the same as what you have on windows and macintosh however exmh throws in support for the cutbuffer mechanism which is another archaic mechanism supported at one point perhaps still today by versions of emacs exmh has a policy that tries to unify all these mechanisms under one umbrella and by all reports it is not that great i would encourage folks to play with those NUMBER lines of code in text_selection and report what works well for them we may come up with NUMBER lines that work for everyone or perhaps introduce yet another setting that lets folks choose between a few useful models of course that s an admission of policy failure but i m willing to do that brent welch software architect panasas inc pioneering the world s most scalable and agile storage network URL welch URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 date sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from brent welch welch panasas com message id NUMBER baaNUMBER blackcomb panasas com i would encourage folks to play with those NUMBER lines of code in text_selection and report what works well for them we may come up with NUMBER lines that work for everyone or perhaps introduce yet another setting that lets folks choose between a few useful models of course that s an admission of policy failure but i m willing to do that i actually think you re looking in the wrong place i at least have almost no problems with the choice of what gets pasted or selected that stuff for me if perhaps not users of some gnome variant which appraently has been fixed anyway all seems to work just fine the problem is that a button NUMBER click clears the selection primary where it shouldn t the previous selection should only be cleared when there s something else to replace it even if the highlighting of what is selected is removed try this in any other ramdom application from xterm to netscape and see how it works there normally is no mouse based way to actually clear the primary selection that is set it to be a null string then because of the if i get asked for the selection value i will find something behaviour if you click intending to set the insert point the way most other gui s operate and then paste because the primary is clear but exmh still owns the selection because nothing else has taken it it does and finds some other ramdom stuff from either the clipboard or cut buffer which tends to be something that was deleted back in the ancient past and pastes that that behaviour to me anyway is the real issue once that gets fixed we can switch back to operating the normal select stuff click at new insert point paste mode of operation that almost everyone expects to work whether the select stuff is somewhere in one of the exmh windows or elsewhere kre ps this message is from my experience as a exmh user only i ve never really understood enough about x and selections to go gazing at that part of the code and see how it all really operates _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 from scott lipcon slipcon mercea net date sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i just updated to the latest cvs i had been running a build from june hitting the flist button gives the following traceback syntax error in expression int NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER while executing expr int minline NUMBER msgid minmsg maxline minline NUMBER maxmsg minms g procedure ftoc_findmsg line NUMBER invoked from within ftoc_findmsg i procedure ftoc_showsequences line NUMBER invoked from within ftoc_showsequences f procedure scanfolder line NUMBER invoked from within scanfolder inbox NUMBER invoked from within time list scanfolder f adjustdisplay procedure scan_folder line NUMBER invoked from within scan_folder exmh folder ftoc shownew procedure inc_presortfinish line NUMBER invoked from within inc_presortfinish invoked from within fops flist invoke uplevel body line NUMBER invoked from within uplevel NUMBER list w invoke procedure tkbuttonup line NUMBER invoked from within tkbuttonup fops flist command bound to event it seems to only happen in a folder with no unseen messages chris is this related to your recent changes curious i changed the arguments to ftoc_showsequences to drop the folder argument and instead have an optional msgids argument somehow your version of scanfolder is still trying to pass f you seem to have the latest ftoc tcl NUMBER NUMBER but not the latest scan tcl NUMBER NUMBER i don t know how that happened but try getting your source tree completely up to date chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
oops turns out i wasn t careful installing it so the exmh library variable was pointing at my old installation i m surprised it worked as well as it did in any case i removed the old library directory and edited exmh exmh bg exmh strip etc to point at the right one now i m getting another traceback on startup can t read mhpriv pubseq family cur no such variable while executing mhseq folder seq add mhpriv pubseq folder seq mhseqexpand folder msgids procedure mhreadseqs line NUMBER invoked from within mhreadseqs folder seqs procedure mh_sequences line NUMBER invoked from within mh_sequences folder procedure flist_unseenupdate line NUMBER invoked from within flist_unseenupdate folder procedure folderchange line NUMBER invoked from within folderchange family msg_show cur invoked from within time list folderchange folder msgshowproc procedure folder_change line NUMBER invoked from within folder_change exmh folder procedure exmh line NUMBER invoked from within exmh after script family is the folder i was in when i quit exmh i m on a remote display right now and its really slow i ll have to play with it more tonight when i get home to see if there are any other problems scott from scott lipcon slipcon mercea net date sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i just updated to the latest cvs i had been running a build from june hitting the flist button gives the following traceback syntax error in expression int NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER while executing expr int minline NUMBER msgid minmsg maxline minline NUMBER maxmsg minms g procedure ftoc_findmsg line NUMBER invoked from within ftoc_findmsg i procedure ftoc_showsequences line NUMBER invoked from within ftoc_showsequences f procedure scanfolder line NUMBER invoked from within scanfolder inbox NUMBER invoked from within time list scanfolder f adjustdisplay procedure scan_folder line NUMBER invoked from within scan_folder exmh folder ftoc shownew procedure inc_presortfinish line NUMBER invoked from within inc_presortfinish invoked from within fops flist invoke uplevel body line NUMBER invoked from within uplevel NUMBER list w invoke procedure tkbuttonup line NUMBER invoked from within tkbuttonup fops flist command bound to event it seems to only happen in a folder with no unseen messages chris is this related to your recent changes curious i changed the arguments to ftoc_showsequences to drop the folder argument and instead have an optional msgids argument somehow your version of scanfolder is still trying to pass f you seem to have the latest ftoc tcl NUMBER NUMBER but not the latest scan tcl NUMBER NUMBER i don t know how that happened but try getting your source tree completely up to date chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers _exmh_NUMBERp content type application pgp signature begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux comment exmh version NUMBER NUMBER_NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERjygskNUMBERbNUMBERhNUMBERrNUMBERiuiraixNUMBERajNUMBERcorkpwn NUMBERkatpbNUMBERqytcyrNUMBERmvpNUMBERqcfdNUMBERd cbvNUMBERusxwabobtcdtvhmNUMBERfly xjhj end pgp signature _exmh_NUMBERp _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from chris garrigues cwg bcc deepeddy com date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from scott lipcon slipcon mercea net date sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i just updated to the latest cvs i had been running a build from june hitting the flist button gives the following traceback syntax error in expression int NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER while executing expr int minline NUMBER msgid minmsg maxline minline NUMBER maxmsg minms g procedure ftoc_findmsg line NUMBER invoked from within ftoc_findmsg i procedure ftoc_showsequences line NUMBER invoked from within ftoc_showsequences f procedure scanfolder line NUMBER invoked from within scanfolder inbox NUMBER invoked from within time list scanfolder f adjustdisplay procedure scan_folder line NUMBER invoked from within scan_folder exmh folder ftoc shownew procedure inc_presortfinish line NUMBER invoked from within inc_presortfinish invoked from within fops flist invoke uplevel body line NUMBER invoked from within uplevel NUMBER list w invoke procedure tkbuttonup line NUMBER invoked from within tkbuttonup fops flist command bound to event it seems to only happen in a folder with no unseen messages chris is this related to your recent changes curious i changed the arguments to ftoc_showsequences to drop the folder argument and instead have an optional msgids argument somehow your version of scanfolder is still trying to pass f you seem to have the latest ftoc tcl NUMBER NUMBER but not the latest scan tcl NUMBER NUMBER i don t know how that happened but try getting your source tree completely up to date actually i take that back you re not running the latest ftoc tcl either it probably is my bug but it s in code that s been changed since you last updated from cvs saturday so please update and let s see if the problem is still there chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from scott lipcon slipcon mercea net date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER oops turns out i wasn t careful installing it so the exmh library variable was pointing at my old installation i m surprised it worked as well as it did in any case i removed the old library directory and edited exmh exmh bg exmh strip etc to point at the right one now i m getting another traceback on startup can t read mhpriv pubseq family cur no such variable while executing mhseq folder seq add mhpriv pubseq folder seq mhseqexpand folder msgids procedure mhreadseqs line NUMBER invoked from within mhreadseqs folder seqs procedure mh_sequences line NUMBER invoked from within mh_sequences folder procedure flist_unseenupdate line NUMBER invoked from within flist_unseenupdate folder procedure folderchange line NUMBER invoked from within folderchange family msg_show cur invoked from within time list folderchange folder msgshowproc procedure folder_change line NUMBER invoked from within folder_change exmh folder procedure exmh line NUMBER invoked from within exmh after script family is the folder i was in when i quit exmh that shouldn t have been able to happen but i ve just made the code slightly more bullet proof chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from scott lipcon slipcon mercea net date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER chris i m home now and this copy of exmh is pretty bad i m running from cvs on sunday night the only change since then was the one you made this morning for bulletproofing in mhreadseqs i run exmh and i can visably see it count up the number of unseen messages as it looks through the folders i have about NUMBER unseen messages in maybe NUMBER or NUMBER folders it takes a few seconds for all of the folders in the fcache to turn blue this is true it s now looking at more than just unseen so it takes a little while in the background to build the sequences window there is probably some tuning possible in this area in inbox i have NUMBER unread messages they aren t blue they are white background with a normal colored font i changed the default display of unseen messages from a foreground of blue to a background of white to make it possible to see what other sequences unseen messages may be in i did ask brent before i did it if you like the old behavior the old lines are still in app defaults color but commented out if i click on a message i get the following traceback invalid command name mh_markseen while executing mh_markseen exmh folder msgid procedure hook_msgshow_update_unseen line NUMBER invoked from within cmd mhprofile path exmh folder msgid mimehdr procedure msgshow line NUMBER invoked from within msgshow msgid procedure msgchange line NUMBER invoked from within msgchange NUMBER show invoked from within time list msgchange msgid show procedure msg_change line NUMBER invoked from within msg_change msgnum show procedure msg_pick line NUMBER invoked from within msg_pick lineno show procedure ftocrangeend line NUMBER invoked from within ftocrangeend lindex split ftoc t index current NUMBER NUMBER command bound to event this is because of your hook_msgshow_update_unseen which is calling a function which no longer exists i suspect you need seq_del exmh folder unseen msgid now instead of mh_markseen exmh folder msgid it appears that the message does get marked as seen though as it loses the white background and nmh reports the same if i click the flist button it zero s the unseen count and then there is again a visible delay as it counts up all the unseen messages maybe NUMBER NUMBER seconds i really think my installation is ok now but if this behavior is just really strange i ll blow everything away and reinstall i m happy to spend some time helping to track this down i don t really need exmh i m comfortable enough using nmh scott _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from scott lipcon slipcon mercea net date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the speed is a problem for sure it takes a long time to do the rescanning of sequences i associate it with hitting the flist button or when my background flist goes off i m running on a pretty fast system athlon NUMBER NUMBERmb ram NUMBERk rpm ultra scsi disk and hitting flist used to take no more than a second the big difference might just be perception because the the old code just updated all the folders count color all at once instead of making it look like there is NUMBER unseen then counting its way back up i doubt i ll have much time in the immediate future to hack at this but if i do can you suggest areas that might be the best to optimize if not do you think we can put in some preferences to disable some of the more intensive features i d rather disable all the sequence support except unseen of course and have reasonable speed i suspect people on slow machines would find the current state unusable if i knew where the problem was i d fix it myself finding it is probably more work than the actual fix this is because of your hook_msgshow_update_unseen which is calling a fun ctio n which no longer exists i suspect you need seq_del exmh folder unseen msgid now instead of mh_markseen exmh folder msgid thanks i m not sure i ll need it with the new sequence code but i might does your new code commit sequences immediately the old code didn t so i put that in to help keep my mh and exmh windows in sync yes it does chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 how easy would it be to code a menu item that marks as read all messages before the current message i often have problems reading heavy traffic mailing lists in exmh because i want to read only a subset of a lists messages but i lose track of where i was in the particular folder this could also be coded more generally in the new sequences code as a way to remove all messages before current from a particular sequence easy first you ll have to excuse me as i m still using NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so this may not play well with recent changes i did look at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER too and i just did this off the top of my head i wanted to see if it still worked so this is somewhat untested adding a menu entry is trivial add this to your exmh exmh defaults fops more m uentrylist ketchup fops more m l_ketchup catch up all bNUMBER cur fops more m c_ketchup my_markNUMBERcurseen then you just need to provide the source for my_markNUMBERcurseen and arrange for exmh to include it put it in your tk exmh directory in your user tcl or in pick patch if you enable the source hook under prefs hacking support it s going to look something like this proc my_markNUMBERcurseen global exmh pick msg exmh_status clearing unseen up to cur red mh_setcur exmh folder msg id set pick ids get message ids for pick NUMBER cur busy pickmarkseen exmh_status ok blue that s based upon the guts of pick_markseen you need to fill in the code for the get section i ran out of time john it just works tm it my head _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERdcNUMBER URL said from chris garrigues cwg exmh URL date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER here s a fix that i think will make a real difference ftoc_showsequences needs to be able to be called with an optional list of msgids to update and if it s called that way it only removes or adds tags for those messages then in places like msgchange we only update the messages which have changed also a separate ftoc_showsequence function which only updates the display of one sequence should be written which also takes an optional list of msgids in a place like msgchange it would only need to update the cur sequence if nobody else gets to it i ll do this when i get back i just checked this in let me know if it helps chris congratulations chris you just made the hall of fame speed is much better now i haven t done any tests but i d say that latency dropped NUMBER NUMBER times and we re back in good shape again well done anders _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 it seems that something changed during the last NUMBER NUMBER weeks NUMBER in a folder msgs NUMBER n is read n current n upwards is unread NUMBER change to another folder NUMBER change back to the original folder and you ll see msg n NUMBER being highlighted as current for a split second that it changes back to n current kind of annoying since it marks msg n NUMBER as read anders _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it seems that something changed during the last NUMBER NUMBER weeks NUMBER in a folder msgs NUMBER n is read n current n upwards is unread NUMBER change to another folder NUMBER change back to the original folder and you ll see msg n NUMBER being highlighted as current for a split second that it changes back to n current kind of annoying since it marks msg n NUMBER as read i haven t seen what you describe but i just saw something close to what you describe i think the message that s being incorrectly highlighted as current is related to the current message in the other folder rather than being n NUMBER i ll have to investigate a bit more to identify and fix the bug but there is something going on here chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
i m a very happy user of exmh but i m paranoid also therefore i m not too happy with exmh caching my pgp passphrases usually i use a relatively secure tool called quintuple agent URL to store my passphrases and i ve just added the few lines of code to exmh which allow for such external caches the patch is attached it is against version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER debian and the files modified are extrasinit tcl and pgpexec tcl i ve added three new preferences in the general pgp section which allow everybody to use his her favourite external tool to get the passphrase everything which spits out the phrase on stdout is ok i d be happy if somebody with cvs access thinks that this stuff is worth to be added and does so apart from that i m happy for suggestions comments or critique mind you i m not exactly a special friend of tcl so my code may leave things to be desired regards az ,0
 i ll have to try it with another window manager and see if i can get exmh to put it back inside of sane boundaries i don t have this problem with any other windows though just the exmhunseen window how about enabling the show unseen message count in folder cache option it displays the number of unseen messages next to each folder name if greater than NUMBER so you don t really need the unseen window unless you re using more sequences than just unseen paul _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER paul paul menage wrote paul so you don t really need the unseen window unless you re paul using more sequences than just unseen i use a virtual window manager and keep the main exmh window and the detached folder list on one virtual desktop but the unseen window is set to show on all desktops got no help for the problems but just pointing out why some of us find the unseen window invaluable hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
in article eNUMBERtsNUMBERt NUMBERzd NUMBER rdsNUMBER you write patrick salsbury writes patrick one of the features i really like about exmh is the patrick ability to see which folders have unseen messages in patrick them but recently it seems to have vanished into the patrick bowels of my window manager in a place i can t get patrick to it claims to be running but doesn t appear patrick anywhere onscreen i m using enlightenment with a NUMBERxNUMBER patrick virtual desktop i ve tried dropping it to only NUMBER patrick screen no help patrick this may not help work but i ve discovered recently that alt middle mouse pops up a list of all of my windows if i leave my mouse on the background it lists alt middle mouse as display task list menu hth bill when i do that it just moves my mouse to the very edge of a window probably trying to center it on the off screen window in question i ll have to try it with another window manager and see if i can get exmh to put it back inside of sane boundaries i don t have this problem with any other windows though just the exmhunseen window pat _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER in article eNUMBERvNUMBERmw NUMBERes NUMBER pmenage dt ensim com you write i ll have to try it with another window manager and see if i can get exmh to put it back inside of sane boundaries i don t have this problem with any other windows though just the exmhunseen window how about enabling the show unseen message count in folder cache option it displays the number of unseen messages next to each folder name if greater than NUMBER so you don t really need the unseen window unless you re using more sequences than just unseen paul as hal noted i like to have the unseen window visible in all virtual desktops even if the main window is minimized however i looked through all the preferences menus and didn t see anything resembling show unseen message count in folder cache where is that and in what version i m running vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER creaky i know i went into twm with no virtual desktops and it came up just fine going back to enlightenment i saw the same behavior as before then i knew it must be something in the window manager so i went digging in my englightenment e_session xxxxxx snapshots NUMBER file i found all the settings that e uses for remembering border styles positions shaded state etc i have a NUMBERxNUMBER screen and it kept putting my window at NUMBERxNUMBER and had it shaded to boot so it was tiny as well as offscreen searching for unseen in that file found this section new exmh exmh name exmh class exmh new unseen unseenwin name unseen class unseenwin desktop NUMBER res NUMBER NUMBER wh NUMBER NUMBER xy NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER layer NUMBER sticky NUMBER skiptask NUMBER skipwinlist NUMBER skipfocus NUMBER shade NUMBER border pager_left_blue i changed xy NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to xy NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so it would reappear in my viewable space restarted enlightenment ctrl alt end and then restarted exmh bingo there was my window i quickly told englightenment to forget everything about that window except is border style and now have a sveldt little entry like so new exmh exmh name exmh class exmh new unseen unseenwin name unseen class unseenwin border pager_left_blue completely an enlightenment problem not exmh though i wonder how it got mixed up in the first place i certainly can t move a window off screen like that unless it was part way over then snapped offscreen when shading hmm weird anyway thanks for the suggestions folks hopefully this will be useful to someone scouting the archives in the future begin pgp signature version pgp NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER comment don t know what pgp is check URL iqa awubpzayrijkhjbjytpqeqiyzgcg mmmlknmpNUMBERcxa hNUMBERbNUMBERxNUMBERkrjxslsaooNUMBERn NUMBERdmNUMBERhpjNUMBERrnugpjuuqitbyecNUMBER olNUMBERh end pgp signature _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER content type text plain charset us ascii after a bit of peeking through the exmh tcl and playing with tcl a bit i got the catchup unseen messages before cur procedure working here s the code for everybody and the list archives in case anyone wants it in the future thanks to john r loverso for putting me on the right track proc my_markNUMBERcurseen global exmh pick msg set results exmh_status clearing unseen up to cur red mh_setcur exmh folder msg id set unseen mh_unseen exmh folder foreach elem unseen if elem msg id lappend results elem set pick ids results busy pickmarkseen exmh_status ok blue if you want to use this stick it in your tk exmh directory run auto_mkindex on it and add the following lines to your exmh exmh defaults fops more m uentrylist ketchup fops more m l_ketchup catch up all before current fops more m c_ketchup my_markNUMBERcurseen ted cabeen URL ted URL check website or keyserver for pgp gpg key baNUMBERdNUMBER secabeen URL i have taken all knowledge to be my province f bacon secabeen URL human kind cannot bear very much reality t s eliot cabeen URL begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER freebsd comment exmh version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERmjNUMBERxoayjflodsdirakaqajNUMBERnlNUMBERmuuNUMBERbjrbNUMBERxNUMBERmgradqhcNUMBERzwcfrkNUMBERd pxatNUMBER ansxNUMBERthjnNUMBERpNUMBERmzvc sjtk end pgp signature _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER ted ted cabeen wrote ted here s the code for everybody and the list archives in ted case anyone wants it in the future very cool i vote for this being added to cvs any objections hal _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER content type text plain charset us ascii in message NUMBER NUMBER dimebox bmc com hal devore writes on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER ted ted cabeen wrote ted here s the code for everybody and the list archives in ted case anyone wants it in the future very cool i vote for this being added to cvs any objections not from me although you probably want to change the name of the procedure ted cabeen URL ted URL check website or keyserver for pgp gpg key baNUMBERdNUMBER secabeen URL i have taken all knowledge to be my province f bacon secabeen URL human kind cannot bear very much reality t s eliot cabeen URL begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER freebsd comment exmh version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERmkNUMBERoayjflodsdirasNUMBERakdyeodgfygsuldyusalxjtbcspxuqcdhafg zNUMBERpNUMBERfqmrjlqcbvmkfjmngji dcNUMBERl end pgp signature _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from hal devore haldevore acm org message id NUMBER NUMBER dimebox bmc com i vote for this being added to cvs any objections no but using pickmarkseen and pick ids as an alternative to just doing seq_del exmh folder mhprofile unseen sequence results seems unnecessary to me that s all that pickmarkseen does after all that can be done via busy of course the same is true of the badly named pick_markseen which has nothing at all to do with pick except that it ab uses the pick ids var in the same way its name would be hard to change unfortunately as it is known in app defaults files for the catch up unseen menu item but its implementation could certainly be fixed kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 i apologize for not catching up to the current code in so long now that i have i m trying to resolve breakage and differences the unseen window seems to have been replaced with the sequences window while i appreciate the flexibility of the sequences window the unseen window filled an important to me need it was tiny and could be set to show on all desktops of a virtual window manager without taking a lot of space since my normal mode of operation involves two copies of exmh displaying on a NUMBERxNUMBER vnc session screen space is at a premium as things stand now i have a sequences window that shows a lot more information than i need to have handy and takes up a lot more room than i can spare i can see that i could like the new sequences window a lot for certain operations but i d like a nice uncluttered tiny window that _only_ shows me info on my unread mail one possibility that occurs to me would be a button or mouse click that shrinks the sequences window to show only the sequences in the always show list and of course a way to expand it back hal _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
i ve had this binding in my exmh exmhbindings for years set bindings key flist_findunseen NUMBER inc_presortfinish key f after updating to the current code in cvs i get bad key f when i hit the f key i can open the bindings commands window and define the binding it then works until i restart exmh i suspect a parsing problem change i ll try to look into this tomorrow unless someone knows where the problem might be hal _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from hal devore haldevore acm org date tue NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ve had this binding in my exmh exmhbindings for years set bindings key flist_findunseen NUMBER inc_presortfinish key f after updating to the current code in cvs i get bad key f when i hit the f key i can open the bindings commands window and define the binding it then works until i restart exmh i suspect a parsing problem change i ll try to look into this tomorrow unless someone knows where the problem might be flist_findunseen has changed to flist_findseqs it takes the same arguments but i changed the name because it looks for all the sequences not just the unseen sequence chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 from hal devore haldevore acm org date tue NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER one possibility that occurs to me would be a button or mouse click that shrinks the sequences window to show only the sequences in the always show list and of course a way to expand it back that s a pretty good idea i m not sure i ll get to it any time soon i already have a known bug reported on NUMBER NUMBER that i haven t been able to get to chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 i have a couple of small issues and i m not sure if their exmh issues or my setup issues first when i try and run exmh with wish from tkNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it seems to take forever to start but with wish from tkNUMBER a NUMBER it starts in a snap using the latest cvs when i open exmh and the folder i m in has unseen messages and i hit next exmh changes to the next folder with unseen messages rather than to the first unseen in the current folder finally when i reach the end of the messages in a folder and go on to the next unseen exmh always goes back to inbox which has no unseen messages rather than the next folder with unseen messages when i goto next from inbox it does go where i would think it should go just wanted to let you know what i m seeing and find out if i m expecting some different than i should be thanks for all the effort jim _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER chris chris garrigues wrote chris i m not sure i ll get to it any time soon well you have a pretty good idea of when i might get to it the phrase hell freezes over comes to mind so whenever you can will certainly be fine thanks for considering it in the meantime i ve set the minimum entry lines to NUMBER it certainly isn t going to make me go back to the old version hal _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt j w ballantine jwb homer att com said first when i try and run exmh with wish from tkNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it seems to take forever to start but with wish from tkNUMBER a NUMBER it starts in a snap this sounds like something piggy in the flist code i m seeing flist in general taking NUMBER NUMBER seconds interesting that a different wish comes up fast there might be a borkedness in NUMBER NUMBER using the latest cvs when i open exmh and the folder i m in has unseen messages and i hit next exmh changes to the next folder with unseen messages rather than to the first unseen in the current folder hmm weirdness finally when i reach the end of the messages in a folder and go on to the next unseen exmh always goes back to inbox which has no unseen messages rather than the next folder with unseen messages when i goto next from inbox it does go where i would think it should go i ve been seeing this as well usually with inbox but it s gotten stuck on some other folders as well i have procmail do rcvstore into folders for me valdis kletnieks computer systems senior engineer virginia tech ,0
 on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER chris chris garrigues wrote chris flist_findunseen has changed to flist_findseqs i guess i was sleepier than i thought i managed to cut and paste the _right_ stuff from the app defaults file into the bindings definition dialog without ever noticing that it was different from what was in my exmhbindings file hal p s can i get a pointer to a freeware tcl tk debugger _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 date wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from hal devore haldevore acm org message id NUMBER NUMBER dimebox bmc com restarting exmh was necessary probably not next time try clicking on the folder name in the sequences window for the sequence that is request that sequence be the one displayed in the ftoc if the sequence doesn t exist it will be cleaned up then perhaps it would be nicer if flist would do it as well but this is effective enough kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 i wrote this last night but it appears i never sent it still haven t had time to dig in to it on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER robert robert elz wrote robert no but using pickmarkseen and pick ids as an robert alternative to just doing robert seq_del exmh folder mhprofile unseen sequence results ah neither ted nor i were particularly up to date i pulled down the lates from cvs and am now running with it i miss the blue ftoc lines but i ll sort that out soon iirc chris said it s a simple resource change ted s code to ketchup made use of some of the procs that went away in the sequence generalization i ve fixed it up almost and it looks like this now proc cabeen_markNUMBERcurseen global exmh mhprofile msg set results exmh_status clearing unseen up to cur red mh_setcur exmh folder msg id set unseen mh_sequence exmh folder mhprofile unseen sequence foreach elem unseen if elem msg id lappend results elem busy seq_del exmh folder mhprofile unseen sequence results exmh_status ok blue the almost is because it s not updating the highlighting on the ftoc i m too tired to go figure out how to fix that just now and have to move on to other stuff if someone wants to forward me a clue feel free now that i ve got all of chris sequence stuff i discovered that my sequences are cluttered hal _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 hi succeeded in ringing a bell anytime i get a mail to my inbox not mailing lists spams etc by using procmail to execute a play clink wav on the right mails now my demands are growing i use my laptop remotely very often and now i would like the bell to sound on that when i am there i triedto use the kde remote sound server and it works in the tests but when procmail runs it it doesn t presumably as it doesn t have the authorization to communicate with the laptop beeing another user any hints brgds dag nygren email dag URL oy espoon newtech ab phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER träsktorpet NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER esbo mobile NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER finland _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER dag dag nygren wrote dag but when procmail runs it it doesn t presumably as it dag doesn t have the authorization to communicate with the dag laptop beeing another user i don t know anything about the kde sound server but i d guess your problem is the environment in which procmail runs you don t say what procmail is running from in my case for example procmail is run from fetchmail which is run by a cron job sorry about that procmail is run by the qmail delivery agent to presort all mail i get but anyway i found an error message in procmail log which solved the problem the following line in my delivery script seems to work fine now display laptop NUMBER NUMBER artsplay soundfile thanks dag _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
on wed aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER ulises ponce wrote hi is there a command to insert the signature using a combination of keys and not to have sent the mail to insert it then i simply put it them into my nmh component files components replcomps forwcomps and so on that way you get them when you are editing your message also by using comps files for specific folders you can alter your sig per folder and other tricks see the docs for n mh for all the details there might must also be a way to get sedit to do it but i ve been using gvim as my exmh message editor for a long time now i load it with a command that loads some email specific settings eg to syntax colour highlight the headers and quoted parts of an email it would be possible to map some vim keys that would add a sig or even give a selection of sigs to choose from and there are all sorts of ways to have randomly chosen sigs somewhere at rtfm mit edu ok here we go URL warning it s old may NUMBER regards ulises hope this helps cheers tony _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 from j w ballantine jwb homer att com date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i cvs ed the unseen sequences changes and installed them and have only one real issue i use the unseen window rather than the exmh icon and with the new code i can t seem to be able to how many unseen when when i have the main window open is not really necessary hmmm i stole the code from unseenwin but i never tested it since i don t use that functionality consider it on my list of things to check chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 date wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from chris garrigues cwg dated NUMBER NUMBERddNUMBER deepeddy com message id NUMBER NUMBER tmda deepeddy vircio com the background color in this window is the same as the background color in the ftoc that s what i d like to vary particularly as the ftoc background isn t constant messages in the unseen sequence have a different background than others in the ftoc that s fine but in the sequences window it isn t needed unseen already has a different foreground there no problem with that it doesn t need a different background as well i ll play about a bit with this and with making it vertical instead of horizontal and see what turns up the only sequences that are defined there are sequences which are defined in app defaults color or exmh exmh defaults color ok i ve been thinking about how to dynamically generate highlighting for other sequences but haven t got that figured out yet in this case highlighting wasn t what i was most concerned about a method to get messages in out of sequences comes first how it displays is a secondary consideration but as a suggestion have an all unknown sequence highlight any message in a sequence which has no defined highlighting where defined includes defined to not be treated specially gets highlighted the same way maybe something as boring as a dark brown text colour almost indistinguishable from the normal black any chance of making the current message a little brighter background i don t see any reason why not experiment and let me know what works for you done some of that first the most significant change came from changing relief from raised to sunken i don t know why but it just looks better for me anyway but even with that cur and unseen are still just a bit too similar i ended up using sequence_cur background palegoldenrod relief sunken borderwidth NUMBER the unnecessary braces are just because some of the colours i was using had spaces in their names palegoldenrod translates as eeeNUMBERaa which is probably safer for generic use kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 just cvs up ed and nowadays catch up unseen is __extremely__ slow on large NUMBER msgs unseen sequences anybody else having this problem i ll take the blame the reason i suspect is that we re needlessly reading the sequences file multiple times because of other sequences i need to make the code much smarter about handling that file but first i have a few other fish to fry in my rather large patch that s on it s way no panic i m all for cleaning things up before getting it optimized okay this fix is now checked in i m afraid it didn t help it still seems to be slower than NUMBER month ago maybe slightly faster than yeasterday i m still seeing an unseen countdown in the log NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER writing home ander mail lists l k mh_sequences NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER digits changed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lists l k has NUMBER msgs in unseen NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER flistunseenfolder lists l k NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ok NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER folder_change lists exmh msg_show cur _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER just cvs up ed and nowadays catch up unseen is __extremely__ slow o n large NUMBER msgs unseen sequences anybody else having this proble m i ll take the blame the reason i suspect is that we re needlessly reading the sequence s file multiple times because of other sequences i need to make the code m uch smarter about handling that file but first i have a few other fish t o fry in my rather large patch that s on it s way no panic i m all for cleaning things up before getting it optimized okay this fix is now checked in i m afraid it didn t help it still seems to be slower than NUMBER month ago maybe slightly faster than yeasterday i m still seeing an unseen countdown in the log okay catchup unseen is something that i don t use often but i can certainly reproduce this i ll dig into it it s probably simple chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 oooops doesn t work at all got this on startup and on any attempt to change folder which fail anders can t read flist seqcount lists exmh unseen no such element in array reading value of variable to increment invoked from within incr flist seqcount folder seq delta procedure seq_del line NUMBER invoked from within seq_del exmh folder mhprofile unseen sequence msgid procedure msgseen line NUMBER invoked from within msgseen msgid procedure msgshow line NUMBER invoked from within msgshow msgid procedure msgchange line NUMBER invoked from within msgchange NUMBER show invoked from within time list msgchange msgid show procedure msg_change line NUMBER invoked from within msg_change msg id show procedure msg_show line NUMBER invoked from within msg_show cur eval body line NUMBER invoked from within eval msgshowproc procedure folderchange line NUMBER invoked from within folderchange lists exmh msg_show cur invoked from within time list folderchange folder msgshowproc procedure folder_change line NUMBER invoked from within folder_change exmh folder procedure exmh line NUMBER invoked from within exmh after script _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
in a message dated thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cdt ulises ponce said thanks tony but i think doing it using component files will get a signature by default but i have many diferent signatures and i want to insert one of that signatures using a keyboard command so for a message i will insert a signature but for another message i will insert a different signature is it possible i am using sedit for my messages ahm if you don t object to using a mouse for such things exmh has the ability to insert different sigs on demand create a bunch of different sig files all beginning with signature and at start up exmh will load them all in the sedit window you ll see a sign menu item which will allow you to select between each of the listed signature files for that e mail you can actually use several if you d like though i don t remember what preferences option allows for this however the signature gets added on send not inserted directly into the existing sedit window prior to composition i currently have NUMBER different sig files i can choose between additionally if a signature file has the execute bit turned on exmh will attempt to execute the file and use the stdout of the script as your signature i hope this helps some seeya paul it may look like i m just sitting here doing nothing but i m really actively waiting for all my problems to go away if you re not having fun you re not doing it right _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
thanks paul that is the way i am doing right now but i would like to not use the mouse for such things any other clue saludos ulises speaking words of wisdom in a message dated thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cdt ulises ponce said thanks tony but i think doing it using component files will get a signature by default but i have many diferent signatures and i want to insert one of that signatures using a keyboard command so for a message i will insert a signature but for another message i will insert a different signature is it possible i am using sedit for my messages ahm if you don t object to using a mouse for such things exmh has the ability to insert different sigs on demand create a bunch of different sig files all beginning with signature and at start up exmh will load them all in the sedit window you ll see a sign menu item which will allow you to select between each of the listed signature files for that e mail you can actually use several if you d like though i don t remember what preferences option allows for this however the signature gets added on send not inserted directly into the existing sedit window prior to composition i currently have NUMBER different sig files i can choose between additionally if a signature file has the execute bit turned on exmh will attempt to execute the file and use the stdout of the script as your signature i hope this helps some seeya paul it may look like i m just sitting here doing nothing but i m really actively waiting for all my problems to go away if you re not having fun you re not doing it right _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
just got this i was just reading mail but in a very dark room where the keyboard is illuminated mostly by the light from the laptop screen i think i put my fingers on the wrong keys i mostly use the keyboard exclusively while running exmh this is from today s cvs the fixes for the problems i mentioned yesterday are included i eventually managed to contact the cvs server expected integer but got while executing incr m procedure mhseqexpand line NUMBER invoked from within mhseqexpand folder msgids procedure mhseq line NUMBER invoked from within mhseq folder seq how oldmsgids msgids procedure mh_sequenceupdate line NUMBER invoked from within mh_sequenceupdate folder replace seq msgids procedure seq_set line NUMBER invoked from within seq_set folder cur msgid procedure mh_setcur line NUMBER invoked from within mh_setcur exmh folder msgid procedure msgchange line NUMBER invoked from within msgchange noshow invoked from within time list msgchange msgid show procedure msg_change line NUMBER invoked from within msg_change select sel noshow procedure selecttypein line NUMBER invoked from within selecttypein mid right top msg command bound to event kre ps i have the sequences window vertical instead of horizontal and the colours from the ftoc stuff all deleted and it is looking just about as good as the old unseen window used to look i still have some work to do to make it a little nicer listboxes seem to have some strange habits and then i need to make it all optional and parameterized at the minute i m just embedding stuff in the code much quicker for prototyping once its done i ll send a patch for someone to look over _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
in a message dated thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cdt ulises ponce said thanks paul that is the way i am doing right now but i would like to not use the mouse for such things any other clue the best i can think of is to figure out what the command being issued by exmh is that selects and inserts the sig and bind that to a key sequence that shouldn t be too difficult it s just a matter of figuring out the tcl something my perl based brain isn t excited about seeya paul it may look like i m just sitting here doing nothing but i m really actively waiting for all my problems to go away if you re not having fun you re not doing it right _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER oooops doesn t work at all got this on startup and on any attempt to change folde r which fail sigh i d already found that and checked it in apparently i did so after you checked it out and before you sent this mail i hoped i was fast enough that you wouldn t see it try again chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER chris chris garrigues wrote chris _exmh_NUMBERp content type text plain chris charset us ascii from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER oooops doesn t work at all got this on startup and on any attempt to change folde r which fail chris sigh i d already found that and checked it in apparently chris i did so after you checked it out and before you sent this chris mail i hoped i was fast enough that you wouldn t see it chris try again works like a charm it s like the box was on drugs or something however while testing it a selected my favourite folder l k and marked NUMBER messages unread that took forever or about as long as catch up unseen did before any suggestions a _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
 from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER chris chris garrigues wrote chris _exmh_NUMBERp content type text plain chris charset us ascii from anders eriksson aeriksson fastmail fm date thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER oooops doesn t work at all got this on startup and on any attempt to change folde r which fail chris sigh i d already found that and checked it in apparently chris i did so after you checked it out and before you sent this chris mail i hoped i was fast enough that you wouldn t see it chris try again works like a charm it s like the box was on drugs or something however while testing it a selected my favourite folder l k and marked NUMBER messages unread that took forever or about as long as catch up unseen did before any suggestions that s fixed now i thought i d caught all the occurrences of that particular coding stupidity chris chris garrigues URL vircio URL NUMBER congress suite NUMBER austin tx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world war iii the wrong doers vs the evil doers ,0
 date fri NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from robert elz kre munnari oz au message id NUMBER NUMBER munnari oz au when i said this is from today s cvs that will translate as yesterday s now of course before the most recent set of changes catchup speedups and so on kre _______________________________________________ exmh workers mailing list exmh workers URL URL ,0
help i had gpg working i updated from version gnupg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to gnupg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this moved gpg from usr bin to usr local bin and i changed the path in the exmh executable with that fix exmh knows i have gpg and puts the line check the signature with gnupg in messages with gnupg signatures but punching the line always gives signature made thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt using dsa key id bddfNUMBERa can t check signature public key not found so something else is missing can somebody tell me what it is ive tried grepping on everything that i can think of with no luck at all reg clemens reg URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 btw i remember messing about with such things long ago one problem i ran into was making sure that no attempt was made to play a sound when either a the screen was locked or b no exmh was running just something to think about dag hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 dag but when procmail runs it it doesn t presumably as it dag doesn t have the authorization to communicate with the dag laptop beeing another user i don t know anything about the kde sound server but i d guess your problem is the environment in which procmail runs you don t say what procmail is running from in my case for example procmail is run from fetchmail which is run by a cron job sorry about that procmail is run by the qmail delivery agent to presort all mail i get but anyway i found an error message in procmail log which solved the problem the following line in my delivery script seems to work fine now display laptop NUMBER NUMBER artsplay soundfile btw if you use exmhwrapper found in the misc directory you can generalize this to display cat home exmh display artsplay soundfile yes but that probably means that you have to have exmh running on the laptop to get the notification with exmh getting upset by two instances running at the same time this creates the problem that i cannot run to the closest compter to check out the new mail but thanks for the hint i might use that for some other hack brgds dag _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 when i receive a message that has a line starting with from it s broken into two messages i get my mail from var spool mail the program that incorporates mail thinks that the from line starts a new message my sysadmins have told me that the sending mail client is supposed to escape lines begining with from exmh NUMBER NUMBER doesn t do this should it it appears that my mh is mh NUMBER NUMBER does nmh fix this jason d m rennie mit ai lab jrennie URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
this is not an exmh problem but an interaction between sendmail solaris and mh your sysadmin is wrong it is the responsibility of the receiving mail server to escape lines beginning with from if they choose to turn on that facility it is not the responsibility for email clients to cater to the stupid design of the unix mail spool and sun s even more stupid decision to rely on content length instead of dealing with this problem since mh is unaware of content length rcvstore gags trying to parse messages from the spool i had this same problem there are several ways to fix it NUMBER get your mail administrator to add the e flag to your sendmail this means you will never see a line beginning with from any such line will look like from NUMBER there is a patch to mh to make it respect content length when i was having this problem porting this patch to nmh was low on the priority list then nmh development stalled for a long time i doubt it has been done but you can check with the nmh list at nmh workers URL to find out for sure NUMBER you can learn to use procmail invoking rcvstore directly instead of letting sendmail put your incoming mail into the spool this avoids the whole issue rcvstore only deals with a single message at a time and everything works jim mcmaster mailto mcmasjc URL in message NUMBER gNUMBERgvdmxNUMBER life URL jason rennie said when i receive a message that has a line starting with from it s broken into two messages i get my mail from var spool mail the program that incorporates mail thinks that the from line starts a new message my sysadmins have told me that the sending mail client is supposed to escape lines begining with from exmh NUMBER NUMBER doesn t do this should it it appears that my mh is mh NUMBER NUMBER does nmh fix this jason d m rennie mit ai lab jrennie URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER jason jason rennie wrote jason my sysadmins have told me that the sending mail client jason is supposed to escape lines begining with from your sysadmins are wrong whatever program that is used to store the mail into the braindead mailbox file var spool mail whatever is supposed to escape a line that begins with from that program is called the local mail delivery agent mda it would be better if you never ever stored your mail in a mailbox file if your sysadmins are capable of it get them to set up the receiving mail transfer agent mta to allow the use of procmail as the local mda then use procmail to invoke rcvstore and deliver your mail directly into your mh mail folders most linux systems come configured this way if a user has a home procmail file then mail is delivered using procmail hal _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
james this is not an exmh problem but an interaction between sendmail james solaris and mh correct james your sysadmin is wrong it is the responsibility of the receiving mail james server to escape lines beginning with from if they choose to turn james on that facility it is not the responsibility for email clients to james cater to the stupid design of the unix mail spool and sun s even more james stupid decision to rely on content length instead of dealing with james this problem since mh is unaware of content length rcvstore gags james trying to parse messages from the spool also correct in fairness though i cannot defend the content length header as i consider it brain damage in the extreme sun inherited this from at t james get your mail administrator to add the e flag to your sendmail james this means you will never see a line beginning with from any such james line will look like from specifically you will need to find a line in etc mail URL that starts with mlocal such as NUMBER grep mlocal etc mail URL mlocal p usr lib mail local f lsdfmawNUMBER qpsxfmnzNUMBERe s envfromsmtp hdrfroml r envtol hdrtol NUMBER and make sure that e appears in the long list of flags following f if your sys admin uses mNUMBER to generate URL and any good sys admin should then here is the magic line for the mc file modify_mailer_flags local e dnl james you can learn to use procmail invoking rcvstore directly instead of james letting sendmail put your incoming mail into the spool this avoids james the whole issue rcvstore only deals with a single message at a time james and everything works also correct though procmail per se is not needed as other filters such as slocal which is part of the n mh distribution do the trick just as well john _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 mcmasjc URL said NUMBER you can learn to use procmail can this be done via forward i don t have root on the machine my mailbox is on and i m absolutely certain that a complaint to the sysadmin about sendmail will get a simple response shut down the daemon and tell me to use outlook NUMBER de keNUMBERtv NUMBER kevin kenny ge corporate research development kennykb URL p o box NUMBER bldg k NUMBER rm NUMBERbNUMBERa schenectady new york NUMBER NUMBER usa _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
in message NUMBER oaaNUMBER hippolyta crd ge com kevin kenny said mcmasjc URL said NUMBER you can learn to use procmail it absolutely can be done from forward i am in the same situation as you and that is how i do it jim mcmaster mailto mcmasjc URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
 on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt kevin kenny writes NUMBER you can learn to use procmail can this be done via forward make your forward contain only the following line usr bin procmail incl the quotes your procmail binary may be in another path cheers rw for a list of points detailing how technology has failed to improve our lives please press NUMBER ,0
in message NUMBER gNUMBERjpgfjNUMBER fsck intern waldner priv at robert wa ldner said on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt kevin kenny writes NUMBER you can learn to use procmail can this be done via forward make your forward contain only the following line usr bin procmail incl the quotes your procmail binary may be in another path check the procmail documentation they actually recommend ifs p path to procmail test f p exec p f exit NUMBER unique_string i don t know what this does but it is explained in the doc jim mcmaster mailto mcmasjc URL _______________________________________________ exmh users mailing list exmh users URL URL ,0
jason rennie jrennie ai mit edu writes my sysadmins have told me that the sending mail client is supposed to escape lines begining with from exmh NUMBER NUMBER doesn t do this should it it appears that my mh is mh NUMBER NUMBER does nmh fix this actually this issue used to escalate into a religious war the from envelope is an artifact of the mbox mailbox format and from that perspective it should be the mail server that stores its mailboxes in mbox format that should be responsible for escaping lines beginning with from on the other hand this breaks the assumption that the mail transport only touches the message headers and leaves the message body alone things like pgp signatures break when the mail server changes the message body also strictly speaking the mbox format envelope or for us old timers the uucp envelope isn t just any line beginning with from it s really from a single space a valid email address two spaces and a valid date for example from ptardif URL sun jul NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER john abreau executive director boston linux unix im jabr URL abreauj aim abreauj yahoo NUMBER icq email jabr URL www URL pgp key id NUMBERxdNUMBERcNUMBERbNUMBERdNUMBER pgp key fingerprint NUMBER fb NUMBER NUMBERf NUMBERc NUMBERb dNUMBER NUMBERb eNUMBER cNUMBER NUMBERa NUMBERe fNUMBER NUMBERc be NUMBER some people say the enemy of my enemy is my friend i often respond when elephants fight it s the grass that gets trampled ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote so did my build if the original source is what you were mentioning one drawback they changed from pspell to aspell apparently and it requires aspell NUMBER NUMBER which isn t even in rawhide so spell checking is disabled for now until i take a decision about it oops i didn t see the webpage get updated i saw the new claws and checked your site forgot about it for half a day and then posted here you beat me once again if i build recent aspell packages they may not be upgraded when ungrating to the next red hat linux release the final version of the limbos and null betas which is maybe not really desired i ll probably test and see oh yeah i was following this thread in the sylpheed claws list very interesting stuff i might have to stick w NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER until aspell gets updated in red hat jesse keating URL mondo devteam www mondorescue org was i helpful let others know URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time jesse wrote on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote but as it s the primary mailer i use you can be sure that as soon as it s updated to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ll update my build it got updated so did my build if the original source is what you were mentioning one drawback they changed from pspell to aspell apparently and it requires aspell NUMBER NUMBER which isn t even in rawhide so spell checking is disabled for now until i take a decision about it if i build recent aspell packages they may not be upgraded when ungrating to the next red hat linux release the final version of the limbos and null betas which is maybe not really desired i ll probably test and see matthias ps the spec file was massively updated and the with without options that can be used to rebuild the source packages are now listed in the description matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time jesse wrote oh yeah i was following this thread in the sylpheed claws list very interesting stuff i might have to stick w NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER until aspell gets updated in red hat then this may be NUMBER months or more since my guess after NUMBER beta releases is that the freeze on package versions for inclusion in the next stable release n NUMBER has already happened thus you ll have to wait at least for red hat linux n NUMBER this is why if it doesn t break anything i ll maybe release recent aspell packages but to be sure i ll need to do some testing matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 hi first you have to get the winNUMBER files then you configure using enable_winNUMBER on fri NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER axel thimm wrote hi has anyone an answer for me the mplayer documentation still suggests to use them for xNUMBER architectures thanks regards axel on sat jun NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER axel thimm wrote are there perhaps licensing issues which forbid such a practice or any other reasons the reason i ask is that i have seen performance and also some feature differences fullscreen w o keeping aspect ratio visual artifacts on nvidia comparing with or without the winNUMBER codecs the mplayer authors seem to recommend using them for xNUMBER architectures beware i am no mplayer codecs whatever expert i may be totally lost axel thimm URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi folks i just uploaded rpms of the new netatalk NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER released yesterday thought folks here might be interested this release fixes a nastygram in saving files via illustrator that i personally have been waiting for URL will be mirrored on URL by tomorrow usually te troy engel systems engineer cool as the other side of the pillow _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hello i m new to the list i wanted to find out who tried recompiling a working apt rpm for null or psyche i would like to get good gstreamer packages done by monday when it s released btw in the archive i saw some posts regarding the gstreamer repository i m not sure why they were posted on this list in any case i m the rpm maintainer so if you have any questions feel free to ask i was trying to get an updated apt rpm from URL but the http port is closed dave if you re reading this please let me know where i can get the updated rpm thanks thomas the dave dina project future tv today URL just like you said you leave my life i m better off dead thomas URL urgent the best radio on the internet NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time thomas wrote i wanted to find out who tried recompiling a working apt rpm for null or psyche i would like to get good gstreamer packages done by monday when it s released i have a working apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER package for red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER it will be available at the same second the distribution will and so will a complete apt repository already including quite a few of my packages updated for red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER i didn t want to say all this before monday but as the new release already leaked from many places and official statements made about it it shouldn t be a big deal i ll keep you all posted on monday they ll even be a big apt related surprise matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi red hat NUMBER NUMBER is released tomorrow monday i took some time out to make rpms of gstreamer for it all of them core plugins and player have been uploaded to the apt repository in a new redhat NUMBER iNUMBER directory the repository for dependencies is again called deps and the one for the gstreamer rpms is redhat because this time around the base distro contains all the necessary packages a screenshot of red hat NUMBER NUMBER running gst player is up at URL here are some known issues with the resulting rpms a gstreamer nautilus isn t built the package got renamed and i don t have a devel package for it yet b the c plugins have problems which i haven t been able to resolve here are the errors info NUMBER NUMBER gst_xml_registry_rebuild NUMBER plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so failed to load error loading plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so reason usr lib libaviplay NUMBER NUMBER so NUMBER undefined symbol _ztvnNUMBER__cxxabivNUMBER__si_class_type_infoe plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so failed to load debug NUMBER NUMBER gst_plugin_load_plugin NUMBER attempt to load plugin usr lib gst libgstmodplug so info NUMBER NUMBER gst_xml_registry_rebuild NUMBER plugin usr lib gst libgstmodplug so failed to load error loading plugin usr lib gst libgstmodplug so reason usr lib gst libgstmodplug so undefined symbol __gxx_personality_vNUMBER i m not sure how to fix this running strings on the libs in usr lib reveals that there are other libs that have these symbols so there must be something straightforward that should fix this if anyone has a suggestion please share thomas the dave dina project future tv today URL kiss me please kiss me kiss me out of desire baby not consolation oh you know it makes me so angry cause i know that in time i ll only make you cry thomas URL urgent the best radio on the internet NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER thomas vander stichele wrote info NUMBER NUMBER gst_xml_registry_rebuild NUMBER plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so failed to load error loading plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so reason usr lib libaviplay NUMBER NUMBER so NUMBER undefined symbol _ztvnNUMBER__cxxabivNUMBER__si_class_type_infoe are you using the same version of gcc to compile the plugin as its c dependencies yes i am everything is built inside a chroot i think it isn t linking to a lib somewhere i m just not sure what lib it should preloading here anyway to find out which one it is thomas the dave dina project future tv today URL you came in just like smoke with a little come on come on come on in your walk come on thomas URL urgent the best radio on the internet NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time thomas wrote on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER thomas vander stichele wrote info NUMBER NUMBER gst_xml_registry_rebuild NUMBER plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so failed to load error loading plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so reason usr lib libaviplay NUMBER NUMBER so NUMBER undefined symbol _ztvnNUMBER__cxxabivNUMBER__si_class_type_infoe are you using the same version of gcc to compile the plugin as its c dependencies yes i am everything is built inside a chroot i think it isn t linking to a lib somewhere i m just not sure what lib it should preloading here anyway to find out which one it is looks like a problem with the avifile you ve rebuilt i ve been unable to recompile successfully the latest version on NUMBER NUMBER matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 info NUMBER NUMBER gst_xml_registry_rebuild NUMBER plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so failed to load error loading plugin usr lib gst libgstwincodec so reason usr lib libaviplay NUMBER NUMBER so NUMBER undefined symbol _ztvnNUMBER__cxxabivNUMBER__si_class_type_infoe are you using the same version of gcc to compile the plugin as its c dependencies yes i am everything is built inside a chroot i think it isn t linking to a lib somewhere i m just not sure what lib it should preloading here anyway to find out which one it is looks like a problem with the avifile you ve rebuilt i ve been unable to recompile successfully the latest version on NUMBER NUMBER hm it is built inside the same chroot aviplay works well it would if i had xv i get x errors but it doesn t complain about linker problems so i suppose my avifile library on itself is compiled ok sigh avifile is one of the worst packages out there in all aspects naming of tarballs not ever releasing an actual package versioning of libraries api stability thomas the dave dina project future tv today URL cos when i needed someone you left me floored the feeling is gone i can t let go you know that i d change if i had the love it takes thomas URL urgent the best radio on the internet NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
peter peltonen peter peltonen iki fi wrote btw i just a found a quite nice looking apt repositry for all kinds of audio apps at URL _very_ comprehensive audio app collection thanks that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER matthias saou wrote all URL is now set for the imminent release of red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER thanks a lot for all your effords it is just great i ll probably post to the list once i open up URL so you can be the first ones to get in and download although i doubt you ll have trouble finding access to at least one fast mirror using my mirror list you mean the mirror list for rhNUMBER NUMBER or do there exist mirrors for your apt repo on sat sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote i ll keep you all posted on monday they ll even be a big apt related surprise was this the surprise or will there be even more where are my heart pills thanks matthias axel thimm URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
indeed i was thinking of getting back into doing mods nice to see an apt get able soundtracker there anyone know where to get a good selection of samples loops on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER angles puglisi angles aminvestments com wrote _very_ comprehensive audio app collection thanks m if i seem super human i have been misunderstood c dream theater mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i would appreciate it if you could get gabber packages for red hat NUMBER i will be making a new release soon but even in the meantime NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER packages would be ok i know that in the beta red hat was using a modified version of gnome libs which is incompatible with the latest gnomemm if this is still the case in NUMBER i can send you a patch which makes gnomemm work again julian on monday sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER us eastern matthias saou wrote hi all all URL is now set for the imminent release of red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER the whole release process is a lot less secret as usual since there have been some leaks including a mirror purposely wide open see this article about the release and the leaks URL as it s no secret anymore the files will be available today morning for you americans afternoon for us europeans and to go with them there are already quite a few URL packages ready mirror list for download they re not open yet URL new URL package list URL of course apt is also available now version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and fully tested if you like apt for your desktop machines i also recommend checking out the new synaptic package as it has now been ported to gtk and blends perfectly into the distribution i ll probably post to the list once i open up URL so you can be the first ones to get in and download although i doubt you ll have trouble finding access to at least one fast mirror using my mirror list have fun with psyche matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
hi are there any reasons _not_ to use the new apt releases on rh NUMBER x reiserfsck ist bekannt dafür daß es leere dateisysteme zurückläßt gut formaljuristisch hat er das dateisystem in einen wohldefinierten zustand versetzt aber nunja man erwartet schon irgendwie daß noch ein paar daten drauf sind danach felix v leitner dasr _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time hesty wrote i know they re all included in the freshrpms alsa null directory now that psyche is released that directory was erased i was worried that with the new mplayer preNUMBER these packages might break something is there any mplayer package which includes all the options for vo and ao is that because alsa is not included in rh hence the lack of alsa option for mplayer from freshrpms or is there some swtiches to enable these options during rpm build for all my recent packages that support with and without options i ve put them in the description section see for instance URL where you can see available rpmbuild rebuild options with alsa without aalib lirc libdv arts the ogle package has also a with alsa option and i ve had a bug report about xine that i apparently unintentionally compiled with alsa directly i d like to aks this on the rpm zzzlist would a new dependency of NUMBERk the alsa lib package for many packages mplayer ogle xine be a problem for the URL packages users as i really feel like blending alsa in now especially since i ve just spent some time recompiling alsa kernel package for all the psyche kernels matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
once upon a time ralf wrote are there any reasons _not_ to use the new apt releases on rh NUMBER x hmmm i don t see any my main concern is that when rebuilding the recent packages i ve made for psyche on valhalla i d need to lower the release tag to keep an upgrade working and that would f ck up my cvs repository which is on my valhalla box well i m exagerating it ll just make it more difficult for me sure there are easy ways around this but the easiest for me will be to wait until i upgrade my main box to psyche and have valhalla only on a secondary rebuild system matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote my main concern is that when rebuilding the recent packages i ve made for psyche on valhalla i d need to lower the release tag to keep an upgrade working and that would f ck up my cvs repository which is on my valhalla box sorry i don t get it what s wrong with a release tag of frNUMBER do i look like a freakin people person _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou wrote i d like to aks this on the rpm zzzlist would a new dependency of NUMBERk the alsa lib package for many packages mplayer ogle xine be a problem for the URL packages users as i really feel like blending alsa in now especially since i ve just spent some time recompiling alsa kernel package for all the psyche kernels i don t know a lot about alsa but use custom kernels for many of the machines would this mean in order to get mplayer eg to work i d first have to compile a custom kernel option or kernel module since i wouldn t have your alsa kernel installed would that mean alsa libs and so on won t install i guess in short if it requires the shipped kernel to be used i d be against with alsa as a default te troy engel systems engineer cool as the other side of the pillow _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
once upon a time hesty wrote where you can see available rpmbuild rebuild options with alsa without aalib lirc libdv arts does this mean when rebuilding the package i ll simply type rpmbuild rebuild package src rpm with alsa yes it does and if you re missing the dependencies needed for the selected options you ll even be informed for alsa you ll need alsa lib devel for example i d like to aks this on the rpm zzzlist would a new dependency of NUMBERk the alsa lib package for many packages mplayer ogle xine be a problem for the URL packages users as i really feel like blending alsa in now especially since i ve just spent some time recompiling alsa kernel package for all the psyche kernels i ll have no problem at all with this and you get my vote on this one one problem with alsa kernel that i ve experienced everytime rh issues a new kernel update i have to rebuild my alsa kernel to match the new kernel yup unfortunately the alsa kernel needs to be rebuilt for each kernel and there s no way of avoiding it matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
hi matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote repository and there s where the problem will be it will say that there are two synaptic NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER packages one installed the other available with the same version but different dependencies that s why i always keep package versions lower for older distributions ah now i see this is a non issue here so i ll rebuild locally dog for sale eats anything and is fond of children _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ralf wrote matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote my main concern is that when rebuilding the recent packages i ve made for psyche on valhalla i d need to lower the release tag to keep an upgrade working and that would f ck up my cvs repository which is on my valhalla box sorry i don t get it what s wrong with a release tag of frNUMBER say you have installed synaptic NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER on your valhalla box package rebuilt for valhalla then you upgrade to psyche using the red hat cds hopefully with the compat libraries the package will still be there although i doubt that since c is binary incompatible so this is probably a bad example then you apt get update with the new psyche repository and there s where the problem will be it will say that there are two synaptic NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER packages one installed the other available with the same version but different dependencies that s why i always keep package versions lower for older distributions matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
is it possible to use new apt to do null to rhNUMBER upgrade even if it s possible are there good reasons why maybe i should not do it and just use the rh iso s i don t think rhNUMBER will upgrade from null maybe upNUMBERdate will that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 is it possible to use new apt to do null to rhNUMBER upgrade it might be don t think anyone tried it yet even if it s possible are there good reasons why maybe i should not do it and just use the rh iso s i don t think rhNUMBER will upgrade from null maybe upNUMBERdate will yes first off redhat does not support upgrading from beta s to the released version that doesn t mean it can t work it means nobody tried it they sure didn t test it or fix anything to make it work and you re on your own second historically a new NUMBER numbers mostly means so much has been changed that you might have problems upgrading from any previous release anyway so historically most users installing a NUMBER release do this from scratch anyway doing upgrades throughout x NUMBER x y if you want to avoid problems bite the bullet and reinstall thomas the dave dina project future tv today URL and every time she sneezes i think it s love and oh lord i m not ready for this sort of thing thomas URL urgent the best radio on the internet NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i remember apt get dist upgrading from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER fine so it should work maybe on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER thomas vander stichele thomas urgent rug ac be wrote it might be don t think anyone tried it yet m if i seem super human i have been misunderstood c dream theater mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time mark wrote i remember apt get dist upgrading from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER fine so it should work maybe i ve done that too on many production servers the only little unimportant catch is to replace kernel headers by glibc kernheaders a simple apt get install glibc kernheaders taking care of that upgrading between releases is meant to work not between betas or beta and releases the reason is simple some packages may have been downgraded some others may have been rebuilt with the same versions but different dependencies for both these categories of packages the upgrade through apt rhn whatever just won t do as some older packages might be considered as the newest thus being kept on the system as red hat does i really don t recommend trying to upgrade between betas or from a beta to a final release either simply backup your home etc and root and or usr local if needed then reinstall cleanly it ll probably save a few hassles and you ll get the cleanest possible system matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on tue NUMBER oct NUMBER angles puglisi wrote is it possible to use new apt to do null to rhNUMBER upgrade possible should be it was possible to update to null from rhNUMBER NUMBER with apt did that on my laptop and well it was painfull to say the least including a ecovery from totally corrupted rpmdb don t expect it to be an easy dist upgrade at any rate so much stuff has changed and apt doesn t always handle all that well the way dependencies are set in rhl even if it s possible are there good reasons why maybe i should not do it and just use the rh iso s i don t think rhNUMBER will upgrade from null maybe upNUMBERdate will it s possible but not supported by rh i ve upgraded both my laptop and my home box from null to rhNUMBER NUMBER and didn t encounter any issues though panu _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time julian wrote i would appreciate it if you could get gabber packages for red hat NUMBER i will be making a new release soon but even in the meantime NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER packages would be ok i know that in the beta red hat was using a modified version of gnome libs which is incompatible with the latest gnomemm if this is still the case in NUMBER i can send you a patch which makes gnomemm work again i m facing another problem right now it looks like libsigc is no longer included in the distribution and gtkmm won t compile without it i guess i ll have to repackage it myself for NUMBER NUMBER assuming it s possible matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time matthias wrote i m facing another problem right now it looks like libsigc is no longer included in the distribution and gtkmm won t compile without it i guess i ll have to repackage it myself for NUMBER NUMBER assuming it s possible well i ve made an updated libsigc NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER package it rebuilds cleanly on NUMBER NUMBER but the so libraries are missing when trying to rebuild on NUMBER NUMBER the a and la files and everything else is though do you have an idea of what the problem may be julian do you want the src rpm to try to find the cause matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote as red hat does i really don t recommend trying to upgrade between betas or from a beta to a final release either simply backup your home etc and root and or usr local if needed then reinstall cleanly it ll probably save a few hassles and you ll get the cleanest possible system i think this is probably the best way because i think maybe with upgrading you do not always automatically get the latest feature enabled in some config file because rh would rather take it easy and not update that config file you get a rpmnew instead of rpmsaved file so they get less calls to support that way anyway i have tons of media files in home probably NUMBER to NUMBER gigs at least my laptop s cdrom takes NUMBERmb at a time obviously and compressing media files is dumb because they are already compressed dumb question how to backup huge data network backup to another box i do not have a box with a tape drive but maybe box with a large hd with much free space could take the backup oops i do not have a space computer with a large hd with much free space these media files are backed up on the cd s they came from yes i learned that used cds make inexpensive backup copy on the shelf i do not want to re rip all this crap again that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote as red hat does i really don t recommend trying to upgrade between betas or from a beta to a final release either simply backup your home etc and root and or usr local if needed then reinstall cleanly it ll probably save a few hassles and you ll get the cleanest possible system i think this is probably the best way because i think maybe with upgrading you do not always automatically get the latest feature enabled in some config file because rh would rather take it easy and not update that config file you get a rpmnew instead of rpmsaved file so they get less calls to support that way if you dislike red hat why use it this was a really bad argument against using red hat that makes no sense at all i for one am glad that they a don t overwrite your config files on a whim be glad they don t do some sort of autodetection and changing crap b tell you on rpm upgrade what config files you should look at because formats have changed red hat is not taking it easy on this it s putting control in the hands of you the maintainer of the machine don t be lazy anyway i have tons of media files in home probably NUMBER to NUMBER gigs at least my laptop s cdrom takes NUMBERmb at a time obviously and compressing media files is dumb because they are already compressed dumb question how to backup huge data network backup to another box i do not have a box with a tape drive but maybe box with a large hd with much free space could take the backup oops i do not have a space computer with a large hd with much free space you don t need to backup home if you are careful enough you did put home on a separate partition no just install rhNUMBER and tell it to use the same partition as home and tell it to not format it but keep the data as is if you didn t put home on a separate partition then you really do need to make backups use an nfs or smb mount from another machine to backup and rsync straight to the mount or if that s not possible rsync over ssh it s the best way to make backups these media files are backed up on the cd s they came from it s the other way around your media files are backups of the cd s they came from good luck thomas the dave dina project future tv today URL you know the shape my breath will take before i let it out thomas URL urgent the best radio on the internet NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i use a mostly red hat NUMBER NUMBER system but prefer to configure and build my kernel by hand i d like to humbly offer a tweak to alsa driver spec that helps it build cleanly under such circumstances i recognize that URL packages are designed with standard red hat in mind including a standard kernel rpm however i hope that matthias will consider the tweak small enough to justify its incorporation the diff is attached below the first part of the diff contains a conditional that checks to see if the expected rpm is installed if it is karch is set as before and a new krpm flag is set to NUMBER if the expected rpm is not installed then karch is instead set using uname p while krpm is left undefined the second part of the diff is simpler we only require that kernel source be installed if the kernel itself came from an rpm if the kernel was hand built the presumably the user knows enough to have retained the sources in the expected place again i realize that i m operating off warrantee by not using a red hat kernel rpm matthias if you think this tweak is reasonable and not too ugly i d love to see you pick it up if not well at least this message will sit in the archives and may help other folks in the future ,0
on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cest thomas vander stichele thomas urgent rug ac be wrote matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote as red hat does i really don t recommend trying to upgrade between betas or from a beta to a final release either simply backup your home etc and root and or usr local if needed then reinstall cleanly it ll probably save a few hassles and you ll get the cleanest possible system yeah i need to work this out too i just learned my lesson about living on the bleeding edge lesson learned no more ximian under any circumstances man that was annoying anyway i have returned to redhat NUMBER NUMBER on my root filesystem saved my home directories music and games on other partitions and while i have the NUMBER NUMBER stuff in the list everything i want to upgrade requires NUMBER rpms i m not opposed to this but apt is apt get dist upgrade dumps core what s the inside secret here or do i just start searching mirrors for the iso and get over it brian fahrländer linux zealot conservative and technomad evansville in my voyage URL icq NUMBER just machines to make big decisions programmed by fellas with compassion and vision we ll be clean when that work is done eternally free and eternally young linux _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ben wrote i use a mostly red hat NUMBER NUMBER system but prefer to configure and build my kernel by hand i d like to humbly offer a tweak to alsa driver spec that helps it build cleanly under such circumstances i recognize that URL packages are designed with standard red hat in mind including a standard kernel rpm however i hope that matthias will consider the tweak small enough to justify its incorporation well i don t really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package built against something that wasn t installed through rpm what i d recommend in your case you should keep at least one original red hat linux kernel you do just in case right and install the matching alsa kernel package as you ll need at least one because of the dependencies then for your custom built kernel simply configure with cards all make make install destdir tmp alsa driver from the alsa driver sources then as root copy all the modules under tmp alsa driver lib modules to your modules dir and run depmod a of course you can even make it much faster by not compiling all un needed drivers as i guess that s one of the reasons one would rebuild his own kernel i find this the easiest and cleanest way to get around the problem it s what i ve done and what i ll keep doing on my laptop where i m running a kernel recompiled with acpi matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
matthias saou wrote well i don t really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package built against something that wasn t installed through rpm oh well fair enough what i d recommend in your case ugh way too much manual labor what i ve done instead is to create a tiny little kernel spec that installs no files but claims to produce a kernel package having version number uname r for architecture uname p it also claims to provide kernel sources at the same version that is enough to make alsa driver spec happy and at least forms a reasonable representation of what my homemade kernel provides to the system i should have thought of this approach sooner _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time brian wrote yeah i need to work this out too i just learned my lesson about living on the bleeding edge lesson learned no more ximian under any circumstances man that was annoying we all learned that sooner or later right when i got down to that myself is when i started URL now known as URL anyway i have returned to redhat NUMBER NUMBER on my root filesystem saved my home directories music and games on other partitions and while i have the NUMBER NUMBER stuff in the list everything i want to upgrade requires NUMBER rpms i m not opposed to this but apt is apt get dist upgrade dumps core strange anyway although i d easily recommend upgrading NUMBER x to NUMBER NUMBER using apt i wouldn t for NUMBER x to NUMBER NUMBER as they are c binary incompatible and apt is entirely written in c and dynamically linked still that doesn t explain a core dump what s the inside secret here or do i just start searching mirrors for the iso and get over it why search there s more than enough to choose from here URL matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
hi this has been hashed over a few times on various lists now i finally got around to doing something about it you can now add rpm URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER task to your sources list and after apt get update you can find out what s available with apt cache search task these are generated directly from comps xml of rhNUMBER NUMBER so they contain exactly the same packages as you ll get by choosing the various categories at install time i didn t bother including srpms for these as they are rather uninteresting if you want you can re generate the specs by running URL btw the repository only contains the task packages you ll need an apt enabled mirror of rhNUMBER NUMBER in your sources list to actually do anything with it panu _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time brian wrote yeah but i try to take it easy on your server the golden rule of the internet when you find a free resource don t piss em off i really appreciate your work you get done the things i wish i could and i respect that don t worry too much the day the server gets too busy i ll cleanup and publish the addresses of some mirrors as many ftp mirrors exist i m aware of at least NUMBER and even an apt one for now the limit is far enough when i unlocked the psyche iso images on monday the bandwidth usage on the current ftp http rsync URL server went up to NUMBERmbps sustained which is not bad as the server has a NUMBERmbps physical nic of course i d get in trouble if it was always like that but the average used when no new red hat release is there is between NUMBER and NUMBERmbps which my company tolerates as i ve convinced them it s a useful return to the community providing us the great operating system all our servers are running matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote anyway i have returned to redhat NUMBER NUMBER on my root filesystem saved my home directories music and games on other partitions and while i have the NUMBER NUMBER stuff in the list everything i want to upgrade requires NUMBER rpms yeah but i try to take it easy on your server the golden rule of the internet when you find a free resource don t piss em off i really appreciate your work you get done the things i wish i could and i respect that anyway although i d easily recommend upgrading NUMBER x to NUMBER NUMBER using apt i wouldn t for NUMBER x to NUMBER NUMBER as they are c binary incompatible and apt is entirely written in c and dynamically linked ok i ll search for the isos on the one remaining site that isn t hammered still that doesn t explain a core dump sure this is a linking issue right right now i m still pure vanilla i have the stock version of rpm rpmlib popt etc and the recommended version of apt that you gave me no wait there s no new code getting loaded i don t know either it s been a long day what s the inside secret here or do i just start searching mirrors for the iso and get over it why search there s more than enough to choose from here URL the hunt continues with a new field actually i checked there yesterday but it s worth another shot thanks brian fahrländer linux zealot conservative and technomad evansville in my voyage URL icq NUMBER just machines to make big decisions programmed by fellas with compassion and vision we ll be clean when that work is done eternally free and eternally young linux _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time angles wrote when i went all open source i stopped using my old partioning app partition magic for the rhNUMBER install i used fips a couple times then extNUMBER came out and my old commercial partioning app is real old so i ask what os software can non destructively repartition a hd so i can put home on a seperate partition now parted is your friend you can t do _everything_ the most limiting being that you can t move the start of a partition but it s quite powerful nevertheless and i ve been very happy with it the few times i ve had to use it if you didn t put home on a separate partition with winbloze NUMBERx i used to deltree the winbloze dir and some program files dirs and install fresh instead of upgrade while saving my other data can this trick be used with this rhNUMBER upgrade example rpm e everything so all packages are gone hit reset button and boot to redhat cdrom in admin rescue mode delete all those config files left like etc then do an install but not format that single partition that i m installing on if i can hack the details is this theory accurate or will rh want to destructively install and elimate all existing files you re really better off backuping all placed where you know you ve hand edited or installed some files for me that s only etc root and home then you reinstall cleanly formating put your home files back into place and you re ready to go that s the moment i usually realize i had a nifty tweak to a file in etc sysconfig network scripts or some special parameters added to an etc modules conf entry so i look at my backup and make the same change again the only thing where you can get stuck is the grub conf files because although there s a etc grub conf link it s actually in boot grub so you may want to copy it too if you have special kernel parameters to save i have to pass pci bios biosirq for one of my computers to work for example hth matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on wed oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER matthias saou wrote well i don t really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package built against something that wasn t installed through rpm following that reasoning i ve been installing all my custom built kernels through rpm recently i find it annoying though that alsa kernel and similar packages will only build for the currently running kernel so i ve attached a patch to specify an alternate kernel by setting the target_kernel environment variable before running rpmbuild you still need to have the rpm for the specified kernel installed but at least it doesn t have to be currently running it s kinda hackish so if someone has a better way to do this let me know gary ,0
matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote you re really better off backuping all placed where you know you ve hand edited or installed some files for me that s only etc root and home then you reinstall cleanly formating put your home files back into place and you re ready to go matthias i gotta believe you i ve been using your rpms for some time now that s the way i ll do it a clean start but with the old configs at the ready for diff ing when needed i ll find some old hd for those media files that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time gary wrote on wed oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER matthias saou wrote well i don t really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package built against something that wasn t installed through rpm following that reasoning i ve been installing all my custom built kernels through rpm recently i find it annoying though that alsa kernel and similar packages will only build for the currently running kernel so i ve attached a patch to specify an alternate kernel by setting the target_kernel environment variable before running rpmbuild you still need to have the rpm for the specified kernel installed but at least it doesn t have to be currently running it s kinda hackish so if someone has a better way to do this let me know that idea looks good although it maybe needs to be tweaked a bit more what you sent doesn t support packages named kernel smp i d also prefer a cleaner way than the env variable and preferrably not editing the spec probably define target NUMBER NUMBER xx xx with smp sound good enough the buildrequires on kernel source will also need to be removed because it won t necessarily need to be true and that does bug me a bit more ideas are welcome matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time angles wrote matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote you re really better off backuping all placed where you know you ve hand edited or installed some files for me that s only etc root and home then you reinstall cleanly formating put your home files back into place and you re ready to go matthias i gotta believe you i ve been using your rpms for some time now that s the way i ll do it i m no messiah just do what you think suits you the best matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hey since i upgraded to redhatNUMBER mplayer vo sdl isnt working for me it gives me black screen and i only hear sound can anyone help me with this btw also the source rpm specified that i can do without libdv but it didn t work worked for lirc and arts thanks roi _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time roi wrote since i upgraded to redhatNUMBER mplayer vo sdl isnt working for me it gives me black screen and i only hear sound can anyone help me with this i ll test this as soon as i can btw also the source rpm specified that i can do without libdv but it didn t work worked for lirc and arts should be fixed you probably had libdv devel installed and mplayer automatically detected it the new spec file explicitely passes disable libdv when the package is rebuilt with without libdv grab the frNUMBER NUMBER spec from here URL matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 well i don t really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package built against something that wasn t installed through rpm following that reasoning i ve been installing all my custom built kernels through rpm recently i find it annoying though that alsa kernel and similar packages will only build for the currently running kernel so i ve attached a patch to specify an alternate kernel by setting the target_kernel environment variable before running rpmbuild you still need to have the rpm for the specified kernel installed but at least it doesn t have to be currently running it s kinda hackish so if someone has a better way to do this let me know that idea looks good although it maybe needs to be tweaked a bit more what you sent doesn t support packages named kernel smp i d also prefer a cleaner way than the env variable and preferrably not editing the spec probably define target NUMBER NUMBER xx xx with smp sound good enough the buildrequires on kernel source will also need to be removed because it won t necessarily need to be true and that does bug me a bit me and my kernel rpm builds this all works along the same idea i have been aiming for but the freaking redhat kernel srpms still have been stump if we could get this and the alsa driver stuff working it would be whole lot easier to try out a newer kernel but then the size of these rpms are huge at least for us n NUMBER world courties i will keep watching and hoping that somebody comes up with a great working idea thanks guys mailed lee _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on fri NUMBER oct NUMBER mark derricutt wrote anyone know where one could get rpms for alot of the python libraries for NUMBER NUMBER its darn annoying the way rh ship python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and python NUMBER NUMBER as pythonNUMBER and libs that only work with one or the other esp the pgdb and xml modules anyone know why red hat insist on sticking with python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER they want to preserve binary compatibility for all x releases red hat NUMBER NUMBER has python NUMBER NUMBER as default panu _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER mark derricutt wrote anyone know where one could get rpms for alot of the python libraries for NUMBER NUMBER its darn annoying the way rh ship python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and python NUMBER NUMBER as pythonNUMBER and libs that only work with one or the other esp the pgdb and xml modules anyone know why red hat insist on sticking with python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER they are on python NUMBER NUMBER for NUMBER NUMBER but they don t like to break compatibility during major releases therefore NUMBER x was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER b c that was current NUMBER x was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER b c that was current when NUMBER NUMBER was released sv ,0
on fri NUMBER oct NUMBER mark derricutt wrote anyone know why red hat insist on sticking with python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ehhh ianahnbarhe rhl NUMBER NUMBER is fully python NUMBER with a back compatability v NUMBER shim set this has been working and freely available in their raw hide for NUMBER months for early adopters and back porters red hat maintains binary compatability across major releases its server management tools are heavily python and becoming more so to have added mid stream the python NUMBER series in the rhl NUMBER x series would have been quite disruptive to an existing installed base russ herrold _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on fri NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER vincent cult free fr wrote hello i m looking for the package kNUMBERb for the redhat NUMBER NUMBER does anyone know where to get it i tried to compile but it did an error message i ve been working on a src rpm for it their rpm and spec file is very dirty so i m cleaning it up i think i have all the build req s and the install req s sorted out but i need more testers URL please try it jesse keating URL mondo devteam www mondorescue org was i helpful let others know URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi how about applying this to the default apt conf shipped with the URL apt package i found it a bit weird when the behaviour changed between the old NUMBER NUMBER x and the new NUMBER NUMBER x versions so that when doing a apt get upgrade it wouldn t tell me which packages were to be upgraded just that it was about to upgrade something apt conf NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER apt conf NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER get download only false show upgraded true ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
ahh sweet theres a reason for me to upgrade then on thursday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER panu matilainen pmatilai welho com wrote they want to preserve binary compatibility for all x releases red hat NUMBER NUMBER has python NUMBER NUMBER as default m if i seem super human i have been misunderstood c dream theater mark URL icq NUMBER jid talios URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
jesse keating wrote on fri NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER vincent cult free fr wrote hello i m looking for the package kNUMBERb for the redhat NUMBER NUMBER does anyone know where to get it i tried to compile but it did an error message i ve been working on a src rpm for it their rpm and spec file is very dirty so i m cleaning it up i think i have all the build req s and the install req s sorted out but i need more testers URL please try it if i get troubles with the tar gz source file compilation will it work with the src rpm source file compilation if it will how do i manage with a src rpm file sorry i don t remeber thanks _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ville wrote how about applying this to the default apt conf shipped with the URL apt package i found it a bit weird when the behaviour changed between the old NUMBER NUMBER x and the new NUMBER NUMBER x versions so that when doing a apt get upgrade it wouldn t tell me which packages were to be upgraded just that it was about to upgrade something indeed i found that strange too then i noticed the u switch and used that but your solution is much better the next apt build will incorporate this change not worth a rebuild for this and as some relatively important cncNUMBER bugs are currently being fixed i d say cncNUMBER isn t far off matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
on fri NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER vincent cult free fr wrote if i get troubles with the tar gz source file compilation will it work with the src rpm source file compilation if it will how do i manage with a src rpm file sorry i don t remeber the src rpm will prompt you for what packages you need to complete the compile rpmbuild rebuild target arch file src rpm jesse keating URL mondo devteam www mondorescue org was i helpful let others know URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
checking build system type iNUMBER pc linux gnu checking host system type iNUMBER pc linux gnu checking target system type invalid configuration athalon redhat linux machine athalon redhat not recognized configure error bin sh admin config sub athalon redhat linux failed error bad exit status from home dale rpmbuild tmp rpm tmp NUMBER prep rpm build errors user jkeating does not exist using root group jkeating does not exist using root user jkeating does not exist using root group jkeating does not exist using root bad exit status from home dale rpmbuild tmp rpm tmp NUMBER prep dale gandalf dale _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
oops i am bad i need to learn how to spell _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou wrote once upon a time roi wrote since i upgraded to redhatNUMBER mplayer vo sdl isnt working for me it gives me black screen and i only hear sound can anyone help me with this i ll test this as soon as i can btw also the source rpm specified that i can do without libdv but it didn t work worked for lirc and arts should be fixed you probably had libdv devel installed and mplayer automatically detected it the new spec file explicitely passes disable libdv when the package is rebuilt with without libdv i didn t had libdv at all i installed it just to install mplayer grab the frNUMBER NUMBER spec from here URL matthias _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou wrote once upon a time roi wrote since i upgraded to redhatNUMBER mplayer vo sdl isnt working for me it gives me black screen and i only hear sound can anyone help me with this i ll test this as soon as i can btw also the source rpm specified that i can do without libdv but it didn t work worked for lirc and arts should be fixed you probably had libdv devel installed and mplayer automatically detected it the new spec file explicitely passes disable libdv when the package is rebuilt with without libdv grab the frNUMBER NUMBER spec from here URL matthias the new spec didn t even want to build the package something with config mak also this new spec looks like the old one it got libdv and libdv devel in the buildrequires so i just used the normal spec and removed it manully roi _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time roi wrote the new spec didn t even want to build the package something with config mak now that is weird also this new spec looks like the old one it got libdv and libdv devel in the buildrequires so i just used the normal spec and removed it manully indeed my boo boo fixed now btw about the mplayer vo sdl black screen problem you reported i was unable to reproduce it on my hom NUMBER NUMBER computer it worked as expected matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 athalon redhat linux machine athalon redhat not recognized configure error bin sh admin config sub athalon redhat linux failed error bad exit status from home dale rpmbuild tmp rpm tmp NUMBER prep woah did you tweak some flags yourself like default rpm flags what dist are you running i don t think there s an athalon redhat linux machine as standard it should be some permutation of athlon and linux and without redhat but i can t tell for sure any idea where your system might be setting this flag rpm build errors user jkeating does not exist using root group jkeating does not exist using root user jkeating does not exist using root group jkeating does not exist using root bad exit status from home dale rpmbuild tmp rpm tmp NUMBER prep looks like the files are owned by the wrong user ie the original spec builder thomas the dave dina project future tv today URL goodbye i ve finally arrived thomas URL urgent the best radio on the internet NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 damn this thing is slick someone seems to have done a very complete qa test on it yesterday i installed it for the first time on an old celeron box sure parts of it were slow but compared to my more modern machine everything is it was good a beautiful interface that legions of sheep can look at and say cool i can understand this and leave their shackles behind i was struck by the massive amount of applications both kde and gnome intuitively seperated not by the gnome kde names but by their meanings instead it s obvious that someone spent a lot of time improving the usability and graphics to make it more international the web browser graphic for example has a world icon with a mouse wrapped around it office apps have familiar pens paper and or calculators involved this is a linux that i can plop down in front of almost anyone and they can figure it out at some point i d miss the character of kde gnome and i ll probably hotrod the graphics setup with my own themes etc but for the wide release this one s it if you get a chance try this i think you ll be surprisingly pleased brian fahrländer linux zealot conservative and technomad evansville in my voyage URL icq NUMBER just machines to make big decisions programmed by fellas with compassion and vision we ll be clean when that work is done eternally free and eternally young linux _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 although it looks like i m replying to myself i just haven t gotten matthias reply yet although i can see it on the website and i did subscribe but probably to the digest anyway matthias wrote once upon a time steve wrote i did apt get update and it seemed to have gotten the new packages hmmm it seems check closer as this may be where the problem is coming from but doing things like apt get install synaptic didn t work neither did other known packages like apt get install lame i just get root canarsie var cache apt apt get install lame reading package lists done building dependency tree done e couldn t find package lame could you double check what apt get update does and eventually post the output if there are any errors or messages you don t understand ok i did it again and here s what i got root canarsie tmp apt get update ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os pkglist hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os release hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates pkglist hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates release get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms pkglist NUMBER NUMBERkb hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms release hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os srclist hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates srclist get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms srclist NUMBER NUMBERkb fetched NUMBER NUMBERkb in NUMBERs NUMBER NUMBERkb s reading package lists done root canarsie tmp apt get install lame reading package lists done building dependency tree done e couldn t find package lame root canarsie var cache apt ls ltr total NUMBER drwxr xr x NUMBER root root NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gensrclist drwxr xr x NUMBER root root NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER genpkglist drwxr xr x NUMBER root root NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER archives rw r r NUMBER root root NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER srcpkgcache bin rw r r NUMBER root root NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pkgcache bin root canarsie var cache apt date fri oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt NUMBER so it looks like it worked and the files are updated very strange maybe something went wrong updating apt from my old version as used with rhNUMBER NUMBER and this one lemme try totally uninstalling and reinstalling it root canarsie rpm e apt synaptic warning etc apt sources list saved as etc apt sources list rpmsave root canarsie ls l etc apt total NUMBER rw r r NUMBER root root NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sources list rpmsave root canarsie rpm ivh tmp apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm warning tmp apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm vNUMBER dsa signature nokey key id eNUMBERdNUMBERb preparing NUMBER NUMBER apt NUMBER root canarsie apt get update ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os pkglist hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os release hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates pkglist hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates release hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms pkglist hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms release hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os srclist hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates srclist hit URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms srclist reading package lists done root canarsie apt get install synaptic reading package lists done building dependency tree done e couldn t find package synaptic root canarsie still no go i m stumped stevek matthias steve kann chief engineer NUMBER NUMBERth ave NUMBER ny NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL collaborate interact learn the box said requires windows NUMBER nt or better so i installed linux _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time brian wrote i have a fresh new NUMBER NUMBER install i d like to go alsa but i worry about screwing it up is this fear founded if i could get alsa i could run a bunch of games i ve been waiting for years to come out like search rescue available on a mandrake rpm and maybe flightgear flight simulator well i m sure you can recompile those game packages without alsa anyway also note that alsa NUMBER NUMBER x has just appeared in mandrake NUMBER NUMBER and that all previous mandrake releases were using the incompatible aging and now unsupported NUMBER NUMBER x series unless i ve misunderstood how much hacking is likely required to make it work for an sblive emuNUMBERkNUMBER soundcard near to none it should be quite straightforward URL the only tricky part is editing the etc modules conf file but the alsa soundcard matrix has a page for every supported card with a section you can most of the time simply copy and paste i really think that with my alsa packages alsa on red hat linux has never been so easy cheers matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote i really think that with my alsa packages alsa on red hat linux has never been so easy i had been hand building those alsa packages for probably NUMBER months or more so i could use my laptop s ess chip best hard disk recording and such wow maybe NUMBER to NUMBER months time flys i didn t look forward to doing that tedious build every time i changed a kernel or something matthias has made this a thing of the past dude it s a no brainer use apt get or just download and install what s more oss is fully imitated older apps using oss are as happy as a clam my personal taste tells me newer apps which use alsa sound better alsaplayer xmms with alsa module to my ear the NUMBER things that trick people are the modules conf file they didn t have that automatic matrix page when i started with alsa you don t know how good you have it and on my old installs only the first time i installed it on a clean box alsa always was muted until you fire up a mixer and turn up the music it s possible matthias even took care of that too anyway it is was only a one time thing on NUMBERst install that was a long time ago for me those alsa dudes had been trying to get it into the NUMBER NUMBER kernel but missed it but it s been in NUMBER NUMBER for a while now so alsa is the future of sound in the linux kernel that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias haase wrote rh ships the code with the bytecode hinter disabled which makes non aa fonts really ugly this reqiures only a small change for include freetype config ftoption h it is very well documented red hat NUMBER NUMBER ships with the bytecode hinter enabled i think NUMBER NUMBER may have as well the enabling change to ftoption h is made by red hat s srpm before building take a look at freetype NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER enable ftNUMBER bci patch from the srpm it s pretty clear that this does exactly what needs to be done so if your fonts look ugly lack of bytecode hinting is not the cause _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i can t seem to build this package it errors out because rpm found files not included in any of the packages i tried getting them addes it s the documentation that is being loaded and was unsuccessful anyone get this to work coy _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on a rh NUMBER box i m trying to install your package xine NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm i keep running into dependency problems i ve tried to install the dev and lib rpm s as well and they error out with dependency problems on each other they each want something from the other s package i ve tried the without options but still end up with similar for the regular package glut is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER aalib is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER lirc is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER libaa so NUMBER is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER libglut so NUMBER is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER what am i missing here thanks for your efforts quaffapint _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER quaffa pint quaffapint clippersoft net wrote on a rh NUMBER box i m trying to install your package xine NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm i keep running into dependency problems i ve tried to install the dev and lib rpm s as well and they error out with dependency problems on each other they each want something from the other s package i ve tried the without options but still end up with similar for the regular package glut is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER aalib is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER lirc is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER libaa so NUMBER is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER libglut so NUMBER is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER what am i missing here apt get install xine it ll find all these oh and i m told that redhat NUMBER NUMBER will also suggest things like this for ya not apt but the actual package names you need brian fahrländer linux zealot conservative and technomad evansville in my voyage URL icq NUMBER just machines to make big decisions programmed by fellas with compassion and vision we ll be clean when that work is done eternally free and eternally young linux _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time coy wrote i can t seem to build this package it errors out because rpm found files not included in any of the packages i tried getting them addes it s the documentation that is being loaded and was unsuccessful anyone get this to work hi could you post the list of files in question maybe more docs get generated when a certain doc tool is installed and that i didn t have it installed when i rebuilt the package matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on wed oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matthias saou wrote so i ve attached a patch to specify an alternate kernel by setting the target_kernel environment variable before running rpmbuild you still need to have the rpm for the specified kernel installed but at least it doesn t have to be currently running it s kinda hackish so if someone has a better way to do this let me know that idea looks good although it maybe needs to be tweaked a bit more what you sent doesn t support packages named kernel smp i d also prefer a cleaner way than the env variable and preferrably not editing the spec probably define target NUMBER NUMBER xx xx with smp sound good enough the buildrequires on kernel source will also need to be removed because it won t necessarily need to be true and that does bug me a bit the define is exactly what i was looking for i was trying to figure out a way to do it within the mechanism of rpm like the with switches but for some reason didn t think of using define my computer is currently gone for repairs but once it s back i ll rewrite the specfile add support for kernel smp and email it to the list for further criticism as far as requiring kernel source i don t feel it s a big problem if you re gonna go to the trouble of packaging custom kernels into rpms it s not a far stretch to package the source tree too as i currently do also i ve found that the alsa driver source needs a usb related patch to compile under the latest test kernels NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER prex are other people seeing the same thing or is this just a problem with my setup gary p s if i didn t mention it before thanks for the alsa packages they greatly simplified what used to take way too long before _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time quaffa wrote i ve tried the without options but still end up with similar for the regular package glut is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER you need to install the glut package from red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER and glut devel if you intend to recompile the source rpm aalib is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER lirc is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER libaa so NUMBER is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER libglut so NUMBER is needed by xine libs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER here you need both aalib and lirc from URL they re small they can be quite useful that s why i ve compiled xine with them as a default you should be able to get rid of those two though by rebuilding the source rpm otherwise it s a bug in my packaging rpmbuild rebuild without aalib without lirc xine src rpm matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
thanks matthias after installing those packages xine now installs fine guess i shoulda figured that one out thanks quaffapint _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on fri NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ben liblit liblit eecs berkeley edu wrote so if your fonts look ugly lack of bytecode hinting is not the cause well you are right sorry i didn t have any better idea yesterday late in the evening the fonts are ugly only inside of gnomeNUMBER and clean for gnomeNUMBER apps if antialiasing is disabled this is difficult to understand for me regards from germany matthias _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias said could you post the list of files in question sure i used the following command to rebuild the package rpmbuild rebuild target iNUMBER lame NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm and here is the error output for the files rpm build errors user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root installed but unpackaged file s found usr share doc lame html basic html usr share doc lame html contributors html usr share doc lame html examples html usr share doc lame html history html usr share doc lame html idNUMBER html usr share doc lame html index html usr share doc lame html lame css usr share doc lame html modes html usr share doc lame html nodeNUMBER html usr share doc lame html switchs html coy _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on sat NUMBER oct NUMBER coy krill wrote sure i used the following command to rebuild the package rpmbuild rebuild target iNUMBER lame NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm and here is the error output for the files rpm build errors user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root harmless installed but unpackaged file s found usr share doc lame html basic html usr share doc lame html contributors html usr share doc lame html examples html usr share doc lame html history html snip this is a problem with the spec file not accounting for all the files produced see URL russ herrold _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
same as in mplayer src package the with and without not working correctly i do without arts and it still want to install with arts roi _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time roi wrote same as in mplayer src package the with and without not working correctly i do without arts and it still want to install with arts this time the problem seems to be that i overestimated xine lib s configure script as it seems that it doesn t support disabling arts so if you have arts devel installed its support will be compiled in also i had made another mistake and added the configure option to disable lirc ot xine lib when it should have been for xine ui all this is fixed in the upcoming frNUMBER release matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hdparm dNUMBER dev hdc says operation not permitted dvd playback is very jumpy does someone have any ideas on what i can do yo get dma transfers thanks alvie _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on sun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER alvie wrote hdparm dNUMBER dev hdc says operation not permitted dvd playback is very jumpy does someone have any ideas on what i can do yo get dma transfers thanks alvie add to etc modules conf options ide cd dma NUMBER chris kloiber _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
thank you that was exactly what i needed dvd works great now NUMBER more problem video dvdrip worked on rh NUMBER NUMBER but can t get contents of dvd last message is libdvdread using libdvdcss NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for dvd access but it fails on sun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER chris kloiber wrote on sun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER alvie wrote hdparm dNUMBER dev hdc says operation not permitted dvd playback is very jumpy does someone have any ideas on what i can do yo get dma transfers thanks alvie add to etc modules conf options ide cd dma NUMBER chris kloiber _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
when i try to use apt get upgrade it wants to install libusb while i got it same version and all collapse because of this roi _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER roi dayan dejavo punkass com wrote when i try to use apt get upgrade it wants to install libusb while i got it same version and all collapse because of this i had that too i removed libusb i don t think it needed nodeps and then apt get f install and all was well brian fahrländer linux zealot conservative and technomad evansville in my voyage URL icq NUMBER angegangen schlange hüften sein es ganz rüber jetzt bügel innen fest weil es eine lange süsse fahrt ist _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hi in my build scripts i have problems with some of the kernel packages for kernel sources i get package kernel source is a virtual package provided by kernel source NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER kernel source NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on running apt get install kernel source now first of all this doesn t really tell me what the two options are second is there some way i can tell apt get to install either this is done from automatic build scripts so i d like it to proceed anyway thanks thomas the dave dina project future tv today URL i m alive i can tell because of the pain thomas URL urgent the best radio on the internet NUMBER NUMBER URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote thank you that was exactly what i needed dvd works great now btw i think i ll kake it so that my ogle package automatically inserts this options ide cd dma NUMBER to etc modules conf it currently creates the dev dvd link to dev cdrom which will work most of the time if there s only one drive if no dev dvd exists eek maybe it s just me but i don t think that s a good idea outputting a message in post and providing a readme of some kind would be better as well as perhaps adding a note in description ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ville wrote btw i think i ll kake it so that my ogle package automatically inserts this options ide cd dma NUMBER to etc modules conf it currently creates the dev dvd link to dev cdrom which will work most of the time if there s only one drive if no dev dvd exists eek maybe it s just me but i don t think that s a good idea outputting a message in post and providing a readme of some kind would be better as well as perhaps adding a note in description why eek if no dev dvd exists it ll create it if dev dvd exists it won t touch it if someone installs ogle a dvd player i m assuming the hardware is recent enough for software playback and that the drive is a dvd rom all of them support dma but since that change requires a reboot or a manual change i m still hesitating to integrate it my goal is to allow users to install a dvd player through synaptic and play dvds in no time outputting a message in the post section of a package is always a bad idea putting the tip in the description sounds good though matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote once upon a time alvie wrote thanks i seem to be having problems with rebuilding transcode from src it gets confused from previous errors and gives up could you give the output of the error this is only the last part of it i used rpmbuild rebuild without avifile transcode NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER waveformatex is used as a type but is not defined as a type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER parse error before if afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER syntax error before token afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER wvfmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER avm_wave_format_name was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER wvfmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER wvfmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER wvfmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of fprintf with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER redefinition of int fprintf afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER int fprintf previously defined here afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER initializer list being treated as compound expression afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER waveformatex is used as a type but is not defined as a type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER syntax error before token afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER fmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER avm_wave_format_name was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER fmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER fmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER fmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of fprintf with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER redefinition of int fprintf afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER int fprintf previously defined here afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER initializer list being treated as compound expression afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER parse error before if afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER syntax error before token afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of samples with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER conflicting types for int samples afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER previous declaration as unsigned int samples afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER fmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of buffer_size with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER conflicting types for int buffer_size afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER previous declaration as unsigned int buffer_size afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER fmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of buffer with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER conflicting types for int buffer afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER previous declaration as char buffer afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER invalid conversion from char to int afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER parse error before if afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER syntax error before token afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of fflush with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER redefinition of int fflush afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER previous declaration as unsigned int buffer_size afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER fmt was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of buffer with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER conflicting types for int buffer afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER previous declaration as char buffer afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER invalid conversion from char to int afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER parse error before if afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER syntax error before token afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of fflush with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER redefinition of int fflush afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER int fflush previously defined here afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER invalid conversion from _io_file to int afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER ipipe was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER sync_str was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER sync_str was not declared in this scope afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER iso c forbids declaration of p_write with no type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER redefinition of int p_write afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER int p_write previously defined here afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER initializer list being treated as compound expression afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER parse error before while afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER syntax error before token make NUMBER afNUMBER_decore lo error NUMBER make NUMBER leaving directory usr src redhat build transcode NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER import make NUMBER all recursive error NUMBER make NUMBER leaving directory usr src redhat build transcode NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER import using trancode rpm i can t get transcode command line args to work although it s been a while since i used it maybe i forgot how this was a dumb mistake on my part i did nt have libdvdcss devel the transcode command line args work fine now but not so for dvd rip thanks for help alvie i m encoding a dvd to divxNUMBER right now on my home computer and it works fine my current red hat NUMBER NUMBER build of transcode has avifile support disabled that may be your problem it s because gcc NUMBER NUMBER isn t currently able to recompile avifile matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time alvie wrote this is only the last part of it i used rpmbuild rebuild without avifile transcode NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER waveformatex is used as a type but is not defined as a type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER parse error before if all of these afNUMBER are related to avifileNUMBER support normally my NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER build of transcode defaults to not use avifile but you can use with avifileNUMBER to force recompiling against it do you have an old avifile installed maybe can you check the configure line run at the beginning of the rebuild process to see if it does include the without avifileNUMBER option matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote eek maybe it s just me but i don t think that s a good idea outputting a message in post and providing a readme of some kind would be better as well as perhaps adding a note in description why eek if no dev dvd exists it ll create it if dev dvd exists it won t touch it i assume that you won t ghost or remove these and the modules conf change on uninstall though so people who are installing this rpm and are unfortunate enough to have a dvd drive or just an ordinary cd non dvd drive that doesn t support dma will be left with a system without a working cd drive even after removing the rpm and without ever knowing what struck them you can t remove the dma setting from modules conf either unless you re sure that ogle added it there and nothing else needs it the dev stuff isn t that dangerous but the modules conf change can be that s why eek if someone installs ogle a dvd player i m assuming the hardware is recent enough for software playback and that the drive is a dvd rom all of them support dma but since that change requires a reboot or a manual change i m still hesitating to integrate it a worthy goal my goal is to allow users to install a dvd player through synaptic and play dvds in no time outputting a message in the post section of a package is always a bad idea putting the tip in the description sounds good though how about splitting the creation of the symlinks and modules conf modifications into a separate rpm ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ville wrote i assume that you won t ghost or remove these and the modules conf change on uninstall though so people who are installing this rpm and are unfortunate enough to have a dvd drive or just an ordinary cd non dvd drive that doesn t support dma will be left with a system without a working cd drive even after removing the rpm and without ever knowing what struck them you can t remove the dma setting from modules conf either unless you re sure that ogle added it there and nothing else needs it i ve never heard of any cd rom or dvd rom drive having problems with dma although there probably is since red hat decided to default disabling it a few releases back normally even if you try to enable dma and your device doesn t support it it simply don t be able to make the change and that s it the problem iirc is with crappy hardware that is supposed to support dma but doesn t work as expected when it s enabled maybe chris could confirm this i guess i ll settle for the dev dvd link change as described and putting the dma tip in the description matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote once upon a time alvie wrote this is only the last part of it i used rpmbuild rebuild without avifile transcode NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER src rpm afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER waveformatex is used as a type but is not defined as a type afNUMBER_decore cpp NUMBER parse error before if all of these afNUMBER are related to avifileNUMBER support normally my NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER frNUMBER build of transcode defaults to not use avifile but you can use with avifileNUMBER to force recompiling against it do you have an old avifile installed maybe can you check the configure line run at the beginning of the rebuild process to see if it does include the without avifileNUMBER option yes it was there you guessed the problem correctly in an earlier e mail there was still remnants remaining from an old failed avifile installation the transcode src rpm now builds perfectly thank you very much you are good alvie matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote i ve never heard of any cd rom or dvd rom drive having problems with dma although there probably is since red hat decided to default disabling it a few releases back when i worked as a pc repair tech for a computer store chain i did run across quite a few dvd drives that would lock up if dma was enabled it s more of a chipset drive problem than a drive by itself jesse keating URL mondo devteam www mondorescue org was i helpful let others know URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time jesse wrote when i worked as a pc repair tech for a computer store chain i did run across quite a few dvd drives that would lock up if dma was enabled it s more of a chipset drive problem than a drive by itself chipset let me guess via or sis ok so i ll follow red hat s choice of leaving the dma setting alone and orienting the users to some page explaining how to enable it at your own risk matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote i guess i ll settle for the dev dvd link change as described and putting the dma tip in the description thanks i ll sleep better now ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
any plans for rolling nessus rpms for rhNUMBER miss it already ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time ville wrote any plans for rolling nessus rpms for rhNUMBER miss it already well that s one of the NUMBER rpm related mails leftover in my inbox i just mentionned privately as it s a big piece and needs some testing i m just bit lazy about it i ll try to packages it asap or at least put up a testing version first in case i fear some imperfections matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i ve put up a new red hat linux NUMBER NUMBER build of nessus here URL it s NUMBER untested although the build should be ok the new menu was added but some configuration files may be better with new or different defaults feedback is very welcome matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
humberto URL wrote redhat NUMBER disables all support for mpNUMBER files relinking xmms with a zzmpNUMBER module does anyone have a fixed spec file for xmms one that can play mpNUMBER s would be best oh xmms didn t work for me also i used mpgNUMBER i tought its something from me like mplayer not working also and gives black screen _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou wrote once upon a time roi wrote oh xmms didn t work for me also i used mpgNUMBER i tought its something from me nope this is normal as red hat removed all mpNUMBER support from NUMBER NUMBER because of patent and royalty issues on URL you can find the xmms mpNUMBER plugin as i said but also libmad lame mpNUMBER encoder and soon mpgNUMBER as i often used it myself many other players can also play mpNUMBER files like alsaplayer xine mplayer like mplayer not working also and gives black screen this is not normal though try mplayer vo help then try usinf various output methods to see if some do work or not matthias mplayer works with dga if i am root and works with xNUMBER and always worked with sdl but not now with redhat NUMBER now it gives black screen window and play the music of the movie roi _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
once upon a time roi wrote mplayer works with dga if i am root and works with xNUMBER and always worked with sdl but not now with redhat NUMBER now it gives black screen window and play the music of the movie strange because as i said in an earlier post it works for me maybe you re missing the sdl_image or something matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time joshua wrote just a thought would it be possible to generalize this alsa stuff to make building a kernel with any custom optional updated modules an easy thing i think some scripts or at least step by step instructions would be great for example to build a kernel rpm with alsa do NUMBER get the kernel source NUMBER get the alsa source NUMBER run the URL script or a kernel rpm with the lastest wireless lan drivers NUMBER get the kernel source NUMBER get the cvs driver source NUMBER run the URL script etc this wouldn t be worth the effort involved imho and would probably end up in relative breakage of a few systems if not carefully tested your first example is a good one because i really think it s even easier currently NUMBER leave your current kernel as is NUMBER get the alsa driver source rpm NUMBER rebuild and install resulting packages drivers that are written to be easily compiled as modules like ltmodem nvidia alsa etc can easily be repackaged separately as rpms and ported as easily for various kernel rpms from the source rpm also what you describe is sort of the opposite of what rpm packaging is in my mind i see it more as a one size fits all achievement in the general case and kernel isn t an exception although there are packages optimized for various processors since they all come with just about all the modules you ll ever need make that one size fits many then if you want last but not least the kernel is something i m trying to keep away from in my packaging since i really don t want to see newbies screwing up their systems because of packages on my website same goes for gnome kde and other major bits of the distribution since i also want people who happily use my packages to be able to upgrade to the next red hat linux release without having their system turned into another ximian mess matthias ps yes chris i m worried about not giving you too much work less in fact since you can easily answer freshrpms net to people asking how to play dvds right matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
thanks matthias actually i got all four speakers with subwoofer working in digital out mode with gamixer URL however switching between analog and digital i m still baffled as i have a tuner and cassette deck hooked up to line in on a sblive NUMBER NUMBER which is in analog mode but digital out works great now on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote once upon a time lance wrote ok i got alsa installed and there is no static inbetween mpNUMBERs like before which is great my setup is digital NUMBER NUMBER but sound is only coming from front NUMBER speakers and subwoofer rear speakers there is no sound also alsamixer or aumix are unresponsive as well maybe you could find more info or tips on the alsa page for your card also you could try alsactl store editing etc asound state by hand for me it contains data similar to what i can control with alsamixer then run alsactl restore and see if you re able to change what you want that way matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL linux one stanza tip lost sub finding out files larger than given size lost NUMBER to find out all files in a dir over a given size try find path to dir_of_file type f size nk where n is a number like NUMBER for NUMBERmb and multiples thereof discussions on lih NUMBER jul NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i want to thank those involved in making these rpms available thanks guys thanks matthias lance on thu NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER lance wrote thanks matthias actually i got all four speakers with subwoofer working in digital out mode with gamixer URL however switching between analog and digital i m still baffled as i have a tuner and cassette deck hooked up to line in on a sblive NUMBER NUMBER which is in analog mode but digital out works great now on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote once upon a time lance wrote ok i got alsa installed and there is no static inbetween mpNUMBERs like before which is great my setup is digital NUMBER NUMBER but sound is only coming from front NUMBER speakers and subwoofer rear speakers there is no sound also alsamixer or aumix are unresponsive as well maybe you could find more info or tips on the alsa page for your card also you could try alsactl store editing etc asound state by hand for me it contains data similar to what i can control with alsamixer then run alsactl restore and see if you re able to change what you want that way matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL linux one stanza tip lost sub finding out files larger than given size lost NUMBER to find out all files in a dir over a given size try find path to dir_of_file type f size nk where n is a number like NUMBER for NUMBERmb and multiples thereof discussions on lih NUMBER jul NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL linux one stanza tip lost sub finding out files larger than given size lost NUMBER to find out all files in a dir over a given size try find path to dir_of_file type f size nk where n is a number like NUMBER for NUMBERmb and multiples thereof discussions on lih NUMBER jul NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER aug NUMBER matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote once upon a time axel wrote i am now relaxed again and pass this info on probably matthias saou himself is dude and some package has hardwired a path in his build directory it would be nice to find out which and fix it but i am using too many of the freshrpm suite to narrow it down indeed my usual login is dude and has been since long before the big lebowsky came out and it seems the some programs wrongly hard code my home directory when being compiled for instance dude python dude strings usr bin gentoo grep dude home dude dude python dude strings usr bin xine grep dude home dude redhat tmp xine root usr share locale these should probably be considered bugs in the program s build process especially for xine look at that i ll report them upstream if when i have some time this is a standard trap for people building things from source it s generally wise to have a special build environment to avoid these hassles most likely you have some library loading path in your env an strace of the app will show it the app NUMBER NUMBER grep dude personally i have a script called logbuild whose entire purpose is to start a shell with a minimal build environment logged with script the prevents this kind of error since configure yanks all sorts of ill documented values from one s environment for use in the build cc arch various ld_ variables this kind of thing is necessary often the easiest thing is to have a special nonroot account with no profile for building stuff cheers cameron simpson dod NUMBER cs URL URL do not taunt happy fun coder _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
i know this is simple but do you have usr src linux and usr src linux NUMBER NUMBER symlinked to your kernel source directory also is there a config in usr src yourkernelsource config on fri NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER ben liblit wrote i am trying to rebuild the recently posted alsa driver package for my kernel although i run red hat NUMBER NUMBER i am not using a red hat kernel package my kernel is lovingly downloaded configured and built by hand call me old fashioned sadly the rpm rebuild fails part way through rpm rebuild alsa driver NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER frNUMBER src rpm gcc dalsa_build d__kernel__ dmodule NUMBER i usr src redhat build alsa driver NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERrcNUMBER include i lib modules NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER build include oNUMBER mpreferred stack boundary NUMBER march iNUMBER dlinux wall wstrict prototypes fomit frame pointer pipe dexport_symtab c sound c sound c NUMBER snd_hack_usb_set_interface undeclared here not in a function sound c NUMBER initializer element is not constant sound c NUMBER near initialization for __ksymtab_snd_hack_usb_set_interface value make NUMBER sound o error NUMBER the line in question looks like this usb workaround if linux_version_code kernel_version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if defined config_snd_usb_audio defined config_snd_usb_audio_module defined config_snd_usb_midi defined config_snd_usb_midi_module NUMBER export_symbol snd_hack_usb_set_interface endif endif any suggestions _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL linux one stanza tip lost sub finding out files larger than given size lost NUMBER to find out all files in a dir over a given size try find path to dir_of_file type f size nk where n is a number like NUMBER for NUMBERmb and multiples thereof discussions on lih NUMBER jul NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on sat NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER ben liblit wrote well i ve figured out the problem i guess you could say it s an alsa bug when one configures using with cards all alsa blindly turns on the various config_snd_usb_ macros even if config_usb is not actually set matthias would you please consider hooking up this patch in your alsa driver spec it can be added in the obvious manner i suppose i should send this along to the alsa developers as well for them i ll produce a proper patch that makes the fix in acinclude mNUMBER or is someone else on this list already part of the alsa developer community and willing to shepherd this through for me not me but imho it s kind of offtopic to put it in URL rpms upstream is the way to go ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
once upon a time ville wrote not me but imho it s kind of offtopic to put it in URL rpms upstream is the way to go agreed especially since my packages are primarily meant for the original red hat linux kernels and someone removing usb support from his kernel is probably not going to recompile alsa with all the drivers anyway matthias matthias saou world trade center edificio norte NUMBER planta system and network engineer NUMBER barcelona spain electronic group interactive phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
this mixer is specific to alsa s special stuff i use it in addition to the other mixers if i need something special i built it a while ago may need a rebuild URL URL URL matthias saou matthias egwn net wrote once upon a time ville wrote ah the mixer stuff was what made me look for an init script in the first place i didn t bother to check whether the existing stuff would have worked with that will try that out you can assume silence success well from what i ve tried both the main and the pcm at least volume levels can be controlled either by alsamixer or the good old aumix from what i can tell after only NUMBER days using it alsa rocks especially since having a full oss compatibility results that it breaks nothing at all agreed though with only NUMBER hours experience i guess hope some other people from the list will try it out both problems you reported libasound so and wrong xine dependency are now fixed in the current packages oh it s maybe also worth pointing out i ve implemented at last sorting by both last change date and alphabetically for my build list in the php code URL and yes i accept patches comments suggestions about all those spec files matthias _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
if anyone here is running null beta then you may like these gnome theme packages they are enhanced and repackages from my previous theme packs this time to conform to the way pre release rhNUMBER handles themes for gtkNUMBER and gtkNUMBER redhat has a preferences themes app but themes only show up there that have both gtkNUMBER NUMBER gnomeNUMBER themes and gtkNUMBER NUMBER gtkNUMBER aka gnomeNUMBER themes available then rh will apply the theme to both gtk versions so the user does not really notice that different gtk toolkit versions are being used since they should look the same this gtkNUMBER engines compat rpm has gtkNUMBER ported themes for those themes that are included in the rh package gtk engines themes pack for gtkNUMBER the gtkNUMBER NUMBER themez pack mostly repackages my previous theme rpms in a way that the null btea like and supposedly the next rhNUMBER when released forward original mail from angles puglisi angles aminvestments com date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject some null eyecandy packages ,0
on tue NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou wrote it s NUMBER untested although the build should be ok the new menu was added but some configuration files may be better with new or different defaults feedback is very welcome looks good to me just installed it and ran a local scan everything worked smoothly thanks a bunch ille skyttä ville skytta at URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time roi wrote rpm build errors user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root user dude does not exist using root this i would guess is normal but don t you get it at the very beginning of the build isn t this at the end just a reminder file not found var tmp xine root usr bin aaxine argh i forgot to exclude aaxine from the files when using without aalib the current frNUMBER NUMBER spec file fixes this matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time roi wrote oh xmms didn t work for me also i used mpgNUMBER i tought its something from me nope this is normal as red hat removed all mpNUMBER support from NUMBER NUMBER because of patent and royalty issues on URL you can find the xmms mpNUMBER plugin as i said but also libmad lame mpNUMBER encoder and soon mpgNUMBER as i often used it myself many other players can also play mpNUMBER files like alsaplayer xine mplayer like mplayer not working also and gives black screen this is not normal though try mplayer vo help then try usinf various output methods to see if some do work or not matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list URL URL ,0
on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER thomas vander stichele wrote hi in my build scripts i have problems with some of the kernel packages for kernel sources i get package kernel source is a virtual package provided by kernel source NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER kernel source NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on running apt get install kernel source now first of all this doesn t really tell me what the two options are second is there some way i can tell apt get to install either this is done from automatic build scripts so i d like it to proceed anyway that s just apt s way of telling you the package is in allowduplicated meaning multiple versions of the package can be installed at the same time yes the output is a bit strange especially when there s only one version available apt get install kernel source NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER will install it panu _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER jesse keating wrote on mon NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote i ve never heard of any cd rom or dvd rom drive having problems with dma although there probably is since red hat decided to default disabling it a few releases back when i worked as a pc repair tech for a computer store chain i did run across quite a few dvd drives that would lock up if dma was enabled it s more of a chipset drive problem than a drive by itself and my ibm intellistation would lock up instantly now this is actually quite funny if dma was enabled for the cd rom and you tried to access a cd with joliet extensions otherwise it worked just fine with dma enabled panu _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
matthias saou matthias rpmforge net wrote you can also install the xmms plugin seems to make my xmms segfault on exit hmmm but maybe it s another plugin to listen to your good ol mpNUMBER files that s it i ve an xmms alsa module i ve been using for a while now at URL URL URL also there is alsaplayer rpms there too URL URL URL URL good luck both were build on an rh NUMBER NUMBER box with errata current as of the date of the build i m running null rh beta now and i recall that alsa xmms still works i can not remember if alsaplayer needs a rebuild as an aside alsaplayer is really maturing into a versitile app i ve been packaging for many releases now i ve scripted the alsa xmms cvs build so it s easy to spin another one if these rpms do not work on null that s angle as in geometry _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
after installing and enabling xosd xmms i get the following error when trying to start xmms xlib unexpected async reply sequence NUMBERxNUMBER xmms starts but it does not detect mouse commands thanks mike d michael basinger dbasinge URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time jon wrote since libdvdcss NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i have been unable to play dvds using ogle xine vlc or mplayer they all show a scrambled picture with very choppy audio when i run xine i see tons of these in the console libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error audio_out inserting NUMBER NUMBER frames to fill a gap of NUMBER pts metronom audio jump libaNUMBER aNUMBER_block error has anyone seen this before and know how to fix it or should i file a bug report hi first of all sorry for not replying to your private email from last week but i really don t have a slight idea of what could be causing this is this with different dvds or a single one is this using oss or alsa have you tried both is this using binariy packages or recompiling source ones i remember a user having trouble with a particular dvd ever since upgrading libdvdcss to a recent version but haven t heard the end of the story matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 i ve also just tried doing rpm rebuilddb no change a question do these files look too small root canarsie var cache apt ls ltr total NUMBER drwxr xr x NUMBER root root NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gensrclist drwxr xr x NUMBER root root NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER genpkglist drwxr xr x NUMBER root root NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER archives rw r r NUMBER root root NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER srcpkgcache bin rw r r NUMBER root root NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pkgcache bin i ran strings on them and it doesn t look like i see a complete listing of either my system s installed rpms or the rpms in the lists root canarsie var state apt lists ls s total NUMBER NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_pkglist freshrpms NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_pkglist os NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_pkglist updates NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_release freshrpms NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_release os NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_release updates NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_srclist freshrpms NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_srclist os NUMBER apt freshrpms net_redhat_NUMBER NUMBER_en_iNUMBER_base_srclist updates NUMBER lock NUMBER partial if i kill them they get recreated about the same size next time i run apt get stevek on tue oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER steve kann wrote i posted about this last week and i m still stumped apt get is just not working for me and i can t figure out what the problem is i ve tried removing the apt rpms making sure to remove any traces left behind etc apt var state apt var cache apt and still i get couldn t find package xmms mpNUMBER when running apt get install xmms mpNUMBER any clues here s a log of a fresh try root canarsie tmp rpm e apt apt devel root canarsie tmp rm rf etc apt var cache apt var state apt root canarsie tmp rpm ivh apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm apt devel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm warning apt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcncNUMBER frNUMBER iNUMBER rpm vNUMBER dsa signature nokey key id eNUMBERdNUMBERb preparing NUMBER NUMBER apt NUMBER NUMBER apt devel NUMBER root canarsie tmp apt get update ign URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER release get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os pkglist NUMBERkb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os release NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates pkglist NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates release NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms pkglist NUMBER NUMBERkb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms release NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER os srclist NUMBERkb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER updates srclist NUMBERb get NUMBER URL redhat NUMBER NUMBER en iNUMBER freshrpms srclist NUMBER NUMBERkb fetched NUMBERkb in NUMBERs NUMBERkb s reading package lists done root canarsie tmp apt get install xmms mpNUMBER reading package lists done building dependency tree done e couldn t find package xmms mpNUMBER root canarsie tmp apt cache search xmms root canarsie tmp beats me stevek steve kann chief engineer NUMBER NUMBERth ave NUMBER ny NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL collaborate interact learn the box said requires windows NUMBER nt or better so i installed linux steve kann chief engineer NUMBER NUMBERth ave NUMBER ny NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL collaborate interact learn the box said requires windows NUMBER nt or better so i installed linux _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
should i expect problems if my apt server is running rh NUMBER NUMBER apt NUMBER NUMBER and some clients are coming on line and will be running rh NUMBER NUMBER apt NUMBER NUMBER do the two different version interoperate thanks tjb thomas baker email tjb URL systems programmer research computing center voice NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER university of new hampshire fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER morse hall durham nh NUMBER usa URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time thomas wrote should i expect problems if my apt server is running rh NUMBER NUMBER apt NUMBER NUMBER and some clients are coming on line and will be running rh NUMBER NUMBER apt NUMBER NUMBER do the two different version interoperate no problems whatsoever currently URL is running NUMBER NUMBER with apt NUMBER NUMBER and many NUMBER NUMBER clients with NUMBER NUMBER are using it matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac on line battery charging NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
hello has anyone made a working source rpm for dvd rip for red hat NUMBER NUMBER matthias has a spec file on the site for NUMBER NUMBER and there are a couple of spec files lying around on the dvd rip website including one i patched a while ago but it appears that the makefile automatically generated is trying to install the perl libraries into the system s and also at the moment dvd rip needs to be called with perlio stdio as it seems to not work with perlio on rhNUMBER s perl not too sure what the cleanest way to fix this is anyone working on this thanks michèl alexandre salim web URL gpg pgp key URL __________________________________________________ do you yahoo everything you ll ever need on one web page from news and sport to email and music charts URL _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
once upon a time michèl wrote has anyone made a working source rpm for dvd rip for red hat NUMBER NUMBER i don t think i ve tried yet but if i did i probably moved on to another package after having bumped into one of the problems you mention if anyone sends me a patch to my spec file and eventually needed patches etc i d be more than glad to make a new build available matthias clean custom red hat linux rpm packages URL red hat linux release NUMBER NUMBER valhalla running linux kernel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERacpi load NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
blogstart dublin something from the archives daev walsh forwards an article from the irish digest about billy in the bowl this story is also immortalised in an old dublin song which in turn was mentioned in a pogues track billy was a legless beggar in the alleys of stoneybatter and grangegorman where i now live during the NUMBERth century who discovered a new but not entirely legal way to make money blogend linktext billy in the bowl from daev hellshaw URL subject the case of the stoneybatter strangler a story of my new neighbourhood the irish digest july NUMBER the case of the stoneybatter strangler the handsome deformed billy in the bowl evolved a plan to rob his donors then one night he made the biggest mistake of his life dublin in the eighteenth century was noted for two things the architectural beauty of its public buildings and the large number of beggars who sought alms in its maze of streets and lanes many of these beggars relied on visitors and the gentry for their coin but there was one who campaigned among the working class this was billy in the bowl the strange appellation was derived from the fact that billy s sole means of transport was a large bowl shaped car with wheels seated in this bowl the beggar would propel himself along by pushing against the ground with wooden plugs one in each hand billy s unusual means of conveyance was vitally necessary as he had been born without legs nature however had compensated for this by endowing him with powerful arms and shoulders and what was most important an unusually handsome face this was billy s greatest asset in his daily routine of separating sympathetic passers by from their small change the cunning young beggar would wait at a convenient spot on one of the many lonely roads or lanes which were a feature of eighteenth century grangegorman and stoneybatter until a servant girl or an old lady would come along he would then put on is most attractive smile which together with his black curly hair never failed to halt the females the fact that such a handsome young man was so terribly handicapped physically always evoked pity billy in the bowl however wasn t satisfied with becoming the daily owner of a generous number of small coins what his greed demanded were substantial sums of money the more he managed to get the more he could indulge in his pet vices gambling and drinking as a result the beggar evolved a plan to rob unsuspecting sympathisers the first time lie put his plan into operation was on a cold march evening as dusk was falling the victim was a middle aged woman who was passing through grangegorman lane on her way to visit friends in queen street on dublin s north quays when billy heard the woman s footsteps he hid behind some bushes in a ditch which skirted the lane as his unsuspecting victim drew close the beggar moaned and shouted and cried out for help trembling with excitement the woman dashed to the spot where billy lay concealed she bent down to help the beggar out of the ditch when two powerful arms closed around her throat and pulled her into the bushes in a few minutes it was all over the woman lay in a dead faint and billy was travelling at a fast rate down the lane in his bowl his victirn s purse snug in his coat pocket an hour after the robbery the woman was found in a distracted condition but failed to give a description of her assailant and as billy in the bowl had figured nobody would suspect a deformed beggar again and again the beggar carried out his robbery plan always shifting the place of attack to a different part of grangegorman or stoneybatter on one occasion billy in the bowl tried his tactics on a sturdy servant girl who put up such a vigorous resistance that he was forced to strangle her the incident became known as the NUMBER grangegorman lane murder and caused a great stir hundred s flocked to the scene of the crime and for a couple of months billy in the bowl was forced to desert his usual haunts around this period dublin s first ever police force was been mobilised and the first case they were confronted with was the grangegorman lane murder months passed and billy in the bowl reverted once again to his old pasttime a number of young servant girls were lured into ditches and robbed and the police were inundated with so many complaints that a nightly patrol was placed on the district but the beggar still rolled along in his bowl pitied and unsuspected then came the night that finished billy s career of crime two stoudy built female cooks trudging back to their places of employment after a night out in the city were surprised and not a little shocked to hear shouts for help rushing over they came upon a huddled figure in the ditch billy thinking there was only one woman grabbed one of the cooks and tried to pull her into the ditch she proved much too strong for him however and while resisting tore at his face with her sharp finger nails meanwhile her companion acted with speed and daring pulling out her large hatpin she made for the beggar and plunged the pin into his right eye the screams and howls of the wounded beggar reverberated throughout the district and brought people dashing to the scene among them was a member of the nightly police patrol who promptly arrested the groaning billy billy in the bowl was tried and sentenced for robbery with violence but they could never prove it was he who had strangled the servant girl the grangegorman stoneybatter district became once again a quiet attractive dublin suburb where old ladies strolled and carefree servant girls laughed and giggled as they wended their way home at night daev _______________________________ rev dave daev walsh daev URL home URL weekly rant URL is it about a bicycle sgt pluck the third policeman by flann o brien ________________________________ holistic pet detective owl worrier snark hunter ________________________________ ,0
i never claimed it could learn all combinatorial possibilities but it certainly can learn some c on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm scott a crosby wrote on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER craig URL craig deersoft com writes it can learn combinatorial stuff in a more subtle way imagine no it can t it can learn a few examples that happen to be linearily seperable like those you gave it cannot learn the example i gave below which is not linearily seperable ,0
hello all i get problems with the latest nightly build from spamassassin with vmailmgr omail admin it scans the mail and gives it an x spam status no hits NUMBER NUMBER required NUMBER NUMBER can someone look at the code for it maybe because option f is gone greetings erik rudolfs this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 craig URL said are you filtering the nonspamtrap for spam when those newsletters sold your address to someone you didn t sign up with you should probably manually verify that all the mail in the trap is in fact nonspam yep so far it s all opt in stuff no affiliate deals etc j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
like an alias for each list that points to the nonspamtrap address j at NUMBER NUMBER am NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER craig URL wrote are you filtering the nonspamtrap for spam when those newsletters sold your address to someone you didn t sign up with you should probably manually verify that all the mail in the trap is in fact nonspam c on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am justin mason wrote justin shore said i just ran across a false positive that scored NUMBER NUMBER the message was a solicited ad from URL on educator deals i can send a copy if anyone wants it yes please do send it on and i ll add it to the non spam corpus to date the scores evolved by spamassassin are very biased towards non html non newsletter ish mail this release should be different as i ve been spending the last month signing up a nonspamtrap to every legit newsletter i can find this should mean that tests which match common enough newsletter practices will no longer get such high scores once we re run the ga justin shore es ss es ssr pittsburg state university network systems manager URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
as the subject line indicates i m sure these are stupid questions but i m having trouble getting sa working like i understand it should work and have about given up on trying to figure it out myself if a user has a line like whitelist_from URL in his spamassassin user_prefs file does that line not in effect tell the program to take no action at all against any mail coming in from URL or is there still checking being done against it and if the latter what does he need to place in user_prefs to cause such mail to be ignored i m testing sa here with a few users who happen to be on yahoogroups lists before deploying it system wide and although the above line has been added to their user_prefs files much of their list mail is still going to the spam folder due to all the usual things you would expect to trigger sa thanks in advance for any help ken scott admin URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER ken scott wrote whitelist_from URL in his spamassassin user_prefs file does that line not in effect tell the program to take no action at all against any mail coming in from URL or is there still checking being done against it and if it still gets checked but a negative score is added in and it doesn t mean coming in from it means from address is URL there s a yahoo groups compensation rule in NUMBER NUMBER though the latter what does he need to place in user_prefs to cause such mail to be ignored i m testing sa here with a few users who happen to be on ignored completely you can t do that put in a procmail rule yahoogroups lists before deploying it system wide and although the above line has been added to their user_prefs files much of their list mail is still going to the spam folder due to all the usual things you would expect to trigger sa you d want to either add your own compensation rule or up negatively the whitelist score randomly generated tagline there are perfectly good answers to those questions but they ll have to wait for another night homer simpson homers barbershop quartet ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin masses in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER masses modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER mass check log message fixes additions to mass check index mass check rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin masses mass check v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mass check NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mass check NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER print mass check results from who where on when n print m sa version spamtest version n print cvs tag name n iter set_function wanted iter run argv exit NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER my tests status get_names_of_tests_hit tests join sort split tests id s s _ g printf s NUMBERd s s n yorn y this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
i think with the confusion and all we should give these folks until the end of the day to get fixed logs uploaded justin on a related note i didn t include the spamtrap stuff from the corpus directory on your server in my logs but that should definitely be in there don t know if you d included it in yours or not i think it s from kelsey s mailtraps c on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am justin mason wrote files that are out of date as far as i can tell they have no date comment and will be ignored nonspam danielp log nonspam danielr log nonspam duncan log nonspam james log nonspam laager log nonspam messagelabs log nonspam msquadrat log nonspam olivier log nonspam oliviern log nonspam quinlan log nonspam rodbegbie log nonspam sean log nonspam theo log this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am justin mason wrote craig URL said i thought we d sort of decided that after NUMBER NUMBER we d switch the meaning of the lang prefix to actually mean run these rules if language matches where language is what textcat spits out for a message as opposed to using the locale which is how things currently work ah right i d forgotten that doesn t help with the finding broken rules qa case though it does if you have a corpus of german spam and nonspam to feed it and you re not in a de locale c this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
so do you know my public key does the guy who wants to buy NUMBER NUMBER licenses of spamassassin pro do i really want to lose email from either of you c on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am tony l svanstrom wrote on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER the voices made craig URL write trouble is you don t necessarily know ahead of time who s wanting to send you stuff i don t have your pgp public key on my keychain you can do all the signing you want it s not going to help however if you stick a habeas header in your mail i can hopefully be reasonably sure that you re not trying to spam me it is going to be all about enforcement though we ll have to see how they do on enforcement signing messages to someone s public key isn t impossible using some creative scripting you could even do it with openpgp compatible software this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
hi folks i have just installed spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER in my postfix mta server at first i would like to test it just in my email account before applying it to the wole site i configured just as in the install file NUMBER create a forward ifs exec usr bin procmail f exit NUMBER user NUMBER create a procmailrc NUMBERfw usr bin spamassassin c etc mail spamassassin rules but the spams get trought it untouched when i run it by the hand cat sample spam txt usr bin spamassassin c etc mail spamassassin rules it does tag it as spam and send me the email what should i look at thank you luiz felipe ceglia staff terenet lceglia URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 forwarded message from vernon schryver vjs URL to dcc URL date mon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mdt subject version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of the dcc ersion NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of the dcc source is in URL and URL URL and URL start with fix dccm bugs with handling a non responsive server change misc hackmc to modify URL to reject unauthorized relay attempts with a temporary failure when they are supposed to be sent to the dcc but dccm is not running this prevents leaking relay relay spam you must use the new hackmc script to install this change in URL remove whitelisted from cdcc stats output to give more room for totals prevent empty dccproc log files as noted by krzysztof snopek even fatal errors should cause dccproc to exit with NUMBER to avoid rejecting mail as noted by krzysztof snopek when server hostnames have common ip addresses prefer the server with the non anonymous client id noted by krzysztof snopek vernon schryver vjs URL _______________________________________________ dcc mailing list dcc URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
there is a whitelist rbl now ironport s bonded sender is basically a whitelist rbl where you post a bond to get on the list and then lose the bond if you end up spamming from that ip address or something like that URL c on sunday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm bart schaefer wrote NUMBER dnsbl only certifies an ip address not who is using it as it is currently used dnsbl allows you to look up if some ip address has been blacklisted by someone what i haven t seen is a service that provides a dns based whitelist there s a practical reason for that any dns list white or black works only for a limited number of ips the set of unlisted ips is much larger than the set in the dns list if you have to make a binary decision to accept or reject you ll be wrong less often if you reject the blacklist and accept everything else rather than accept the whitelist and reject everything else a whitelist is only helpful when a you only want mail from a limited number of known sources or b you can use a secondary system like sa to decide what to do with the vast unlisted masses most mtas still make only the binary decision because the secondary computation is expensive with sa s cooperation though it might be worth a try even better if one could get commercial anti spam outfits to agree to factor it in this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
political news t r u t h o u t uses it too justin mason wrote NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fwd_msg i m a bit surprised that any spams hit this one did somebody forward a spam that then went into a corpus my corpus is quite clean and i get spam hits yes it s being frequently forged already NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gappy_text gappy text in a non spam it must be a h e a d l i n e or something maybe just remove space from the list of gap characters for NUMBER NUMBER we could try to figure out which nonspams are hitting and improve the rule btw i subscribe to the media unspun newsletter and it and a few others regularly use that h e a d l i n e thing splitting it into NUMBER one that matches gappy text with punctuation chars one that matches spaces between the chars would probably help if anyone s bothered i d suggest filing a bug j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 luiz felipe ceglia said NUMBERfw usr bin spamassassin c etc mail spamassassin rules are you using exactly that with the line break or is it like this NUMBERfw usr bin spamassassin c etc mail spamassassin rules all on one line it should be the latter j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 brian r melcer said i ve got spamassassin installed and tested on macos x NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER although there are issues with spamd still so in addition to looking for new and different uses for sa i d like to hear from folks using it under macos x i just recently converted our sa setup to use amavisd into our postfix amavisd or amavisd new if the latter you don t need spamd running since amavisd new calls sa functions directly pgp fingerprint NUMBERaaNUMBER dcNUMBER cbNUMBER aeNUMBERf cNUMBER NUMBERbfNUMBER NUMBERabNUMBER NUMBERefNUMBER NUMBERaaNUMBER bcdf member leaf project http leaf sourceforge net aim mikeleone public key URL some days you re the pigeon some days you re the statue random thought this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
daniel quinlan quinlan pathname com wrote exactly except that i think you may be too optimistic about the reporting the timeframe and the accuracy that s another argument for a hll habeas licensee list which would be less inclusive than a test for the mark of for hil but more timely and accurate when an ip address is on the hll it could get a huge negative score bigger than the habeas mark alone sidney this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 craig URL said the ga run on the current corpus is yielding an average mean score for false positives of about NUMBER points which is higher than before there s some tweaking to be done yet rule elimination and such so that will likely fall but NUMBER might not be enough of a correction in many situations i will set the scores for the habeas stuff and the ironport stuff to be sensible given a estimated likeliness of compliance with habeas bonded sender rules and b score correction level needed to achieve purposes of those projects using the score ranges stuff and my aggressive anti fp evaluation code btw yielded an average fp of NUMBER NUMBER points with NUMBER NUMBER fps and NUMBER NUMBER overall accuracy but i notice you went back to the other method just pointing this out j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on mon NUMBER aug NUMBER the voices made bugzilla daemon URL write URL additional comments from br spamassassin URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER just because it s documented doesn t mean it s a good thing i work for an isp we provide spamassassin to our customers i got email today from a support tech saying that spamassassin t reports that a message is probably spam even when it s not and why is this and can we change it i thought about why it is and the only answer i could come up with was it was easier for the programmer that way that s an answer i guess but her point was that this is going to generate support calls and support calls cost us time and money why would a customer use spamassassin t without understanding what it does tony per scientiam ad libertatem through knowledge towards freedom genom kunskap mot frihet c NUMBER NUMBER tony URL perl e print _ _ for sort _ lynx dump URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
on mon NUMBER aug NUMBER the voices made certaintytech write recently i have been receiving spam where both the from and to address are set to my address therefore getting thru due to awl any suggestions on this one i could turn off awl but it does have advantages btw i use a site wide awl use cron to remove your address from the awl daily tony per scientiam ad libertatem through knowledge towards freedom genom kunskap mot frihet c NUMBER NUMBER tony URL perl e print _ _ for sort _ lynx dump URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
hi does anyone have a collection of real world spam that i could use to test my setup this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin debian in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER debian modified files spamassassin readme debian log message removed p index spamassassin readme debian rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin debian spamassassin readme debian v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER spamassassin readme debian NUMBER jun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamassassin readme debian NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER you wish to use spamd the daemon version of spamassassin please edit etc default spamassassin spamc is equivalent to spamassassin p and you should use it instead if spamc is equivalent to spamassassin and you should use it instead if and only if you enabled spamd and you ve installed the spamc package to add rules change scores edit the template edit this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
 on tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am tony l svanstrom wrote where can i find it i was searching online without any luck you can t because there isn t one yet habeas is using a combination of copyright and trademark law to protect their sender warranties they hope to patent the system but they have not been issued a patent b this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER the voices made matt sergeant write i ve got NUMBERcNUMBER i think the current developer release though not the same as gold the only difference afaik is the path to a single helpfile which we don t use anyways right g tony ps i also have a problem with that stupid helpprogram crasching whenever i search for windows not sure if that s a feature or not per scientiam ad libertatem through knowledge towards freedom genom kunskap mot frihet c NUMBER NUMBER tony URL perl e print _ _ for sort _ lynx dump URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
jm URL justin mason writes sounds a lot like tmda to me filing date is july NUMBER NUMBER granted may NUMBER NUMBER tmdaers have you seen this before no but thanks for pointing it out i d presume tmda is prior art but still it could be troublesome yup tmda s core functionality was fully established before even the filing date anyone with experience in this area have a recommendation on whether this should be pursued or not ,0
jm URL justin mason writes actually i want to avoid that i ve already removed spamproxyd from the distro for NUMBER NUMBER here s why when they re in the distro we have to support them which is not necessarily a good thing when we didn t write them in the first place or when the coder in question may not want us to maintain them i would be in favor of creating new spamassassin cvs modules and bugzilla categories for other clients provided there is sufficient interest and a maintainer dan ,0
 i would be in favor of creating new spamassassin cvs modules and bugzilla categories for other clients provided there is sufficient interest and a maintainer yeah i d be with that as long as they have a maintainer however regarding cvs i d say many projects might find it easier to just sign up as a new proj with URL it might save them having to go through us not sure depends on what URL s procedures are like j ,0
on wed aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER justin mason wrote actually i think procmail supports this directly use dropprivs yes at the top of the etc procmailrc hey look at that dropprivs if set to yes procmail will drop all privileges it might have had suid or sgid this is only useful if you want to guarantee that the bottom half of the etc procmailrc file is executed on behalf of the recipient of course removing setuid gid bits on programs that don t need it is always a good idea a general rule of system administration don t give out permissions unless you absolutely need to randomly generated tagline the cardinal rule at our school is simple no shooting at teachers if you have to shoot a gun shoot it at a student or an administrator word smart ii from princeton review pub ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER on tuesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am justin mason wrote tony svanstrom on spamassassin talk noted this us patent URL tml pto search adv html r NUMBER f g l NUMBER d pgNUMBER sNUMBER spam p NUMBER os haiku rs spam method of anti spam abstract a method of anti spam is to set an optional trustcode or a trustlist or at least a trustweb based on online mail delivery at a recipient s e mail address a mail sender is compelled at the first time to deliver a mail by way of taking the way of visiting trustweb and sending online or enclosing the recipient s trustcode in the mail and sending in another way other than the mentioned after the sender s e mail address has been stored automatically in the recipient s trustlist the sender may send mails to the same recipient in whatever the ways feasible sounds a lot like tmda to me filing date is july NUMBER NUMBER granted may NUMBER NUMBER tmdaers have you seen this before i d presume tmda is prior art but still it could be troublesome i took a bit of time to review what is on the above url if i were a news editor the headline would be inventor from country that ignores patents and copyrights seeks patent for inventing the wheel robin lynn frank director of operations paradigm omega llc URL URL NUMBER all rights reserved no duplication dissemination permitted use of pgp gpg encrypted mail preferred no html attachments accepted fingerprint NUMBEReNUMBER NUMBERc NUMBERcc NUMBER dbNUMBERd dNUMBER NUMBERfNUMBER dNUMBERdNUMBER NUMBERea NUMBER key server URL begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERbeckdNUMBERjxNUMBERfqnxqramtfakdmNUMBERbdsepbgNUMBERfbNUMBERoreNUMBERxusNUMBERjbNUMBERtNUMBERwcfbtcw pbxqxoNUMBERpeiNUMBERfNUMBERlijNUMBERgdNUMBER c pnjx end pgp signature ,0
 from URL the first release of tmda in april NUMBER was essentially a rewrite of tms in python snip april NUMBER is earlier than july NUMBER NUMBER prior art from URL parent directory NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER readme mdNUMBERsum NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER apr NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER apr NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER apr NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER apr NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER apr NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER jun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER jun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER tgz NUMBER jun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda NUMBER NUMBER txt NUMBER jun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERk tmda was already at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER days before filing for a patent original message from jason r mastaler jason exp NUMBER NUMBERfNUMBERbNUMBER mastaler com to justin mason yyyy spamassassin taint org cc spamassassin talk example sourceforge net tmda users tmda net sent tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject satalk re patent on tmda like system jm URL justin mason writes sounds a lot like tmda to me filing date is july NUMBER NUMBER granted may NUMBER NUMBER tmdaers have you seen this before no but thanks for pointing it out i d presume tmda is prior art but still it could be troublesome yup tmda s core functionality was fully established before even the filing date anyone with experience in this area have a recommendation on whether this should be pursued or not this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on tue NUMBER aug NUMBER the voices made jason r mastaler write jm URL justin mason writes sounds a lot like tmda to me filing date is july NUMBER NUMBER granted may NUMBER NUMBER tmdaers have you seen this before no but thanks for pointing it out i d presume tmda is prior art but still it could be troublesome yup tmda s core functionality was fully established before even the filing date anyone with experience in this area have a recommendation on whether this should be pursued or not if you think you can survive it please fight when i found that patent i found others that were just common sense things that any geek could implement with his script shell language of choice and it s time for someone to get the medias attention on what s going on basically this is the new wave of namenappers it used to be domainnames not it s all the basic general ideas they can think off find on the web that they re patenting tony per scientiam ad libertatem through knowledge towards freedom genom kunskap mot frihet c NUMBER NUMBER tony URL perl e print _ _ for sort _ lynx dump URL ,0
on tuesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet leroy b wrote ignore can t this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 NUMBER hits here i also get a lot of them i think they re using the domain registry database to pull their victims addresses this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wednesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet theo van dinter wrote on wed aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER malte s stretz wrote i get about NUMBER of these per week a google for trafficmagnet convinces me that they re worth their own rule NUMBER hits here i recently cleaned my spam corpus from them but these are my current results overall spam nonspam name NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all messages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_trafficmagnet i put it into cvs_rules_under_test let s see what the NUMBER NUMBER ga run thinks about it malte coding is art this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 steve thomas sthomas apexvoice com NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i also get a lot of them i think they re using the domain registry database to pull their victims addresses along with the usual webmaster and probably a dash of web harvesting on the side from the ones i have seen a recent conversation in two lines me okay trafficmagnet is being access mapped off now junior admin catching up on email after conference thank god jeremy mates URL openpgp NUMBERxNUMBERcNUMBERdNUMBER NUMBER NUMBERdNUMBER ffNUMBER NUMBERbb NUMBERfbf NUMBERaaNUMBER aNUMBER NUMBERfNUMBER NUMBERcNUMBER dNUMBER this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wednesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet steve thomas wrote NUMBER hits here i also get a lot of them i think they re using the domain registry database to pull their victims addresses they are crawling through the pages and send their offers to all addresses they find theo won t every receive any offers as he doesn t publish his address there malte coding is art this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from daniel URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER usage of p just like br ie without p which is obsolete not sure whether some mailers still produce such broken html NUMBER tag argument values sometimes enclosed in sometimes not NUMBER colour args without in front of hex rgb code NUMBER colour args with non NUMBER digit rgb code typo NUMBER onmouseover et al in nonconsistent case throughout the document mind those are just ideas i m pretty sure some or even most of them are not working in practice but they might be worth checking out you are receiving this mail because you are on the cc list for the bug or are watching someone who is this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin masses in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER masses removed files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER evolve cxx log message removed old evolver evolve cxx deleted this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER manifest log message removed old evolver index manifest rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin manifest v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER manifest NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER manifest NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER masses corpus_policy masses corpus_submit masses craig evolve c masses evolve cxx masses freqdiff masses hit frequencies masses lib mail archiveiterator pm this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
 well if you re talking about epiphany which is in january then yes it is NUMBER months some people do celebrate christmas on january NUMBERth or even the NUMBERth but i am certain that what you are thinking is the correct thought please don t flame me just trying to be humerous matt kettler said on an unrelated but similarly amusing note a spam i received and was tagged by sa today began with i bet you haven t even realized that christmas is just NUMBER months away did you strangely no i wasn t aware that christmas was NUMBER months away here in the us christmas is a bit less than NUMBER months away where exactly is the international month line anyway i ve never seen the NUMBER timezone before but i bet it qualifies as invalid_date_tz_absurd this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
justin mason wrote phil r lawrence said something to watch out for is to use nomime NUMBER in the mail audit ctor the m a folks changed the api there what has mime to do with it i read in perldoc m a that your suggestion is less expensive but how does that help s a m a for some reason changes its base class depending on whether the incoming message is mime or not therefore the mail internet methods suddenly become unavailable for mime messages you do not want to know what i thought of that when i found it as a new user of sa i guess i m having trouble connecting the dots if i understand you if i don t use the nomime NUMBER option and i recieve mime mail the mail internet modules become unavailable unavailable for which ma sa what do these methods do does this mean my incoming mime mail won t be checked by sa unless i specify nomime NUMBER thanks phil ,0
ok guys i reckon it s now good enough modulo some minor score tweaking or commenting of some more broken high fp ing rules what do you all think are we ready to go anyone run into any trouble with the new autoconf code or found a bug from the merge of that spamc bsmtp support patch i expect there will be a NUMBER NUMBER btw j this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
hi i m trying to build sa under digital unix NUMBER NUMBERf and am receiving a compile error and many warnings for spamc the perl URL does ok but when i do the make i get this cc std fprm d ieee d_intrinsics i usr local include dlanguage_c oNUMBER spamd spamc c o spamd spamc l usr local lib lbind ldbm ldb lm liconv lutil cc error spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this declaration in_addr_t has no linka ge and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number NUMBER in file usr inc lude sys types h nolinkage typedef unsigned long in_addr_t base type for internet address cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with unsigned ch ar ptrmismatch if bytes full_read in msg_buf max_size NUMBER max_size NUMBER max_size cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value header_buf is char which is not compatible with const un signed char ptrmismatch full_write out header_buf bytesNUMBER cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value header_buf is char which is not compatible with const un signed char ptrmismatch full_write out header_buf bytesNUMBER cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsig ned char ptrmismatch full_write out msg_buf bytes cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value buf is char which is not compatible with unsigned char ptrmismatch if full_read in buf NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER r buf NUMBER n buf NUMBER cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value buf is char which is not compatible with unsigned char ptrmismatch while bytes full_read in buf NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value out_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsig ned char ptrmismatch full_write out out_buf out_index cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsig ned char ptrmismatch full_write stdout_fileno msg_buf amount_read cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsig ned char ptrmismatch full_write stdout_fileno msg_buf amount_read exit NUMBER stop can anyone suggest a way to get around this tia jim mccullars the university of alabama in huntsville this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER i may be dense but why would anyone want to utilize habeus to me it looks like a potential backdoor to anyone s defenses against spam if i were a spammer i d simply set up a server send out my spam with the habeus headers and continue till i was reasonably certain i d been reported then i d simply reconfigure the server and reconnect to a different ip as long as no one can establish my connection to the web sites my spam is directing people to i m home free since i can set up spamassassin to i don t lose any email what do i gain by making it easier for spam to get through robin lynn frank director of operations paradigm omega llc URL URL NUMBER all rights reserved no duplication dissemination permitted use of pgp gpg encrypted mail preferred no html attachments accepted fingerprint NUMBEReNUMBER NUMBERc NUMBERcc NUMBER dbNUMBERd dNUMBER NUMBERfNUMBER dNUMBERdNUMBER NUMBERea NUMBER key server URL begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERbrrzdNUMBERjxNUMBERfqnxqrajqnajseNUMBERbzgjNUMBERmgzdltubtuzqtgeqlwqcfxpzv qfh nyag m zknvliNUMBERbcjgi ysri end pgp signature this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
justin mason wrote ok guys i reckon it s now good enough modulo some minor score tweaking or commenting of some more broken high fp ing rules what do you all think are we ready to go anyone run into any trouble with the new autoconf code or found a bug from the merge of that spamc bsmtp support patch i just checked out bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER from cvs and make test fails horribly it seems to be looking in my site_perl spamassassin code not the build directory example error failed to run from_and_to_same_NUMBER spamassassin test skipping can t locate object method check_for_from_to_same via package mail spamassassin permsgstatus at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin permsgstatus pm line NUMBER anyone else seeing this rod if you re dumb surround yourself with smart people and if you re smart surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you doing the blogging thang again at URL ,0
to update spamassasin all i need to do is install the new tar gz file as if it were a new installation i don t need to stop incoming mail or anything like that thanks mike michael clark webmaster center for democracy and technology NUMBER eye street nw suite NUMBER washington dc NUMBER voice NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL join our activist network your participation can make a difference URL this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 the number NUMBER isp in france and the third isp in europe URL is using non rfcNUMBER compliant mail servers URL is notorious for being unresponsive to spam abuse complaints some of the more militant admins have blocked them completely rossz this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 i may be dense but why would anyone want to utilize habeus to me it looks like a potential backdoor to anyone s defenses against spam you re not dense i m going to zero the habeas scores on my copy of spamassassin i think they were added to sa quite prematurely to me it s simple NUMBER people who send me legitimate email have absolutely no motivation to use habeas at least until it gets lots more press and even then only bulk mailing companies like amazon or ebay are going to bother and i already whitelist them individuals won t bother NUMBER spammers have lots of motivation to forge the habeas headers and a good percentage of them are completely out of the legal reach of habeas i think it should be subjected to the same testing and scrutiny as any other potential new rule when i test against my corpus here s what i get overall spam nonspam s o score name NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all messages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER habeas_swe the score of NUMBER NUMBER is pretty harmless right now but it still looks like a useless rule so far michael moncur mgm at URL URL never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake napoleon this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER michael clark wrote to update spamassasin all i need to do is install the new tar gz file as if it were a new installation i don t need to stop incoming mail or anything like that thanks mike if you are using spamd you will have to stop restart it larry rosenman URL phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail ler URL us mail NUMBER steamboat springs drive garland tx NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wed aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER justin mason wrote ok guys i reckon it s now good enough modulo some minor score tweaking or commenting of some more broken high fp ing rules some make test errors here too failed NUMBER NUMBER test scripts NUMBER NUMBER okay NUMBER NUMBER subtests failed NUMBER NUMBER okay j jesus climent unix system admin helsinki finland URL URL please encrypt mail address to me gnupg id NUMBERdNUMBER fp bbNUMBER NUMBER NUMBERcaa NUMBER eNUMBER NUMBEReNUMBER NUMBERfc NUMBERdNUMBERf NUMBER NUMBERdNUMBER registered linux user NUMBER debian NUMBER NUMBER linux NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER look at my fingers four stones four crates zero stones zero crates zorg the fifth element ,0
 on wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am robin lynn frank wrote if i were a spammer i d simply set up a server send out my spam with the habeus headers and continue till i was reasonably certain i d been reported then i d simply reconfigure the server and reconnect to a different ip as long as no one can establish my connection to the web sites my spam is directing people to i m home free uh the reason is simple habeas runs something called the habeas infringers list and if you use their trademark without their permission you ll end up on it then when you send spam with the misappropriated header users of sa NUMBER NUMBER supports this will tag your mail as spam rather than let it through this may be done independantly of your ip address so be prepared to constantly change domain names and move your servers as fast as you send spam also that little haiku is a copyrighted work so not only can habeas sue they must sue to protect their copyright and since it s a trademark as well that s a double whammy habeas has some pretty high powered legal people who will gladly go to town on violators the whole point here is to give them the legal leverage they need to put spammers out of business and not only block mail from them but allow through the things that really aren t spam b this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER on wednesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm brian mcnett wrote uh the reason is simple habeas runs something called the habeas infringers list and if you use their trademark without their permission you ll end up on it then when you send spam with the misappropriated header users of sa NUMBER NUMBER supports this will tag your mail as spam rather than let it through this may be done independantly of your ip address so be prepared to constantly change domain names and move your servers as fast as you send spam also that little haiku is a copyrighted work so not only can habeas sue they must sue to protect their copyright and since it s a trademark as well that s a double whammy habeas has some pretty high powered legal people who will gladly go to town on violators the whole point here is to give them the legal leverage they need to put spammers out of business and not only block mail from them but allow through the things that really aren t spam b and if a spammer forges headers robin lynn frank director of operations paradigm omega llc URL URL NUMBER all rights reserved no duplication dissemination permitted use of pgp gpg encrypted mail preferred no html attachments accepted fingerprint NUMBEReNUMBER NUMBERc NUMBERcc NUMBER dbNUMBERd dNUMBER NUMBERfNUMBER dNUMBERdNUMBER NUMBERea NUMBER key server URL begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERbtehdNUMBERjxNUMBERfqnxqrarmeajNUMBERlNUMBERpNUMBERtorvagNUMBERj dyNUMBERrNUMBERtzfdNUMBERfnvgcfrhuNUMBER kzo mbybslyi mNUMBERvsnNUMBERzymm mijb end pgp signature this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
justin mason wrote what do you all think are we ready to go anyone run into any trouble with the new autoconf code or found a bug from the merge of that spamc i am now preparing a small patch to URL for netbsd possibly also useful for open and freebsd don t know should be ready and tested in the next half hour if you think NUMBER NUMBER is ready i would suggest to wait just NUMBER hours more for possible reports by bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER users not everyone can follow the development during daytime at work ciao klaus this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
i m a new user or about to be hopefully of sa but i ve run into some compilation errors that prevent me from installing rather than picking through the code i thought i d avoid reinventing the wheel and ask here when i run the make i get the following cc error spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this declaration in_addr_t has no linka ge and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number NUMBER in file usr inc lude sys types h nolinkage typedef unsigned long in_addr_t base type for internet address cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with unsigned ch ar ptrmismatch if bytes full_read in msg_buf max_size NUMBER max_size NUMBER max_size cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value header_buf is char which is not compatible with const un signed char ptrmismatch full_write out header_buf bytesNUMBER there are lots more where they came from any ideas what can be done thanks in advance don newcomer dickinson college associate director system and network services p o box NUMBER newcomer URL carlisle pa NUMBER phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin masses in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER parse rules for masses log message fix for bug NUMBER index parse rules for masses rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin masses parse rules for masses v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER parse rules for masses NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER parse rules for masses NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if defined outputfile outputfile tmp rules pl mkdir tmp NUMBER my rules this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
robin lynn frank rlfrank paradigm omega com writes i may be dense but why would anyone want to utilize habeus to me it looks like a potential backdoor to anyone s defenses against spam if i were a spammer i d simply set up a server send out my spam with the habeus headers and continue till i was reasonably certain i d been reported then i d simply reconfigure the server and reconnect to a different ip as long as no one can establish my connection to the web sites my spam is directing people to i m home free here is the bug i opened URL rbls have the same problem but there is no negative rbl header rule with a NUMBER score that can be forged so the problem is unique to habeas since i can set up spamassassin to i don t lose any email what do i gain by making it easier for spam to get through my primary issue is the magnitude of the negative score and that it was not determined empirically i am also concerned that it was added after the rules freeze that such a major change was not discussed in advance etc there s also no evidence that the rule will actually reduce fps people who are smart enough to use the rule are probably capable of writing email that doesn t look like spam i m not counting spam mailing lists which you need to be exempted from spam filtering dan this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 msg_id_added_by_mta NUMBER NUMBER points invalid_msgid NUMBER NUMBER points msg_id_added_by_mta_NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER points here are the new scores in the NUMBER NUMBER branch they may change but they are better than before score invalid_msgid NUMBER NUMBER score msg_id_added_by_mta NUMBER NUMBER score msg_id_added_by_mta_NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total of NUMBER NUMBER which is better than NUMBER NUMBER i suppose if they fixed their msgid it would help i suppose we could allow comments without hurting spam detection too much but i m reluctant it s pretty bizarre to put a comment after the message id header can you open a bugzilla ticket for this one dan this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
hi i m trying to build sa under digital unix NUMBER NUMBERf and am receiving a compile error and many warnings for spamc the perl URL does ok but when i do the make i get this cc std fprm d ieee d_intrinsics i usr local include dlanguage_c oNUMBER spamd spamc c o spamd spamc l usr local lib lbind ldbm ldb lm liconv lutil cc error spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this declaration in_addr_t has no linkage and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number NUMBER in file usr include sys types h nolinkage typedef unsigned long in_addr_t base type for internet address cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with unsigned char ptrmismatch if bytes full_read in msg_buf max_size NUMBER max_size NUMBER max_size cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value header_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsigned char ptrmismatch full_write out header_buf bytesNUMBER cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value header_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsigned char ptrmismatch full_write out header_buf bytesNUMBER cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsigned char ptrmismatch full_write out msg_buf bytes cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value buf is char which is not compatible with unsigned char ptrmismatch if full_read in buf NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER r buf NUMBER n buf NUMBER cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value buf is char which is not compatible with unsigned char ptrmismatch while bytes full_read in buf NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value out_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsigned char ptrmismatch full_write out out_buf out_index cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsigned char ptrmismatch full_write stdout_fileno msg_buf amount_read cc warning spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this statement the referenced type of the pointer value msg_buf is char which is not compatible with const unsigned char ptrmismatch full_write stdout_fileno msg_buf amount_read exit NUMBER stop can anyone suggest a way to get around this tia jim james h mccullars i phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER director of systems operations i fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER computer network services i internet mccullj URL the university of alabama i in huntsville i huntsville al NUMBER i this space for rent cheap this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
is there a way to tell spamassassin to put the results at the bottom of the message instead if not what is the easiest way to do this i found a report_header but no equivalent report_bottom thanks jon jon g URL this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin t in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER t modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER URL log message ok looks like sa can now be run even with another version installed in usr again index URL rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin t URL v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER my tname shift scr env script scr spamassassin scr perl w spamassassin spamd env spamd_script spamd spamd spamd x this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
on wednesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm robin lynn frank wrote on wednesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm brian mcnett wrote also that little haiku is a copyrighted work so not only can habeas sue they must sue to protect their copyright and since it s a trademark as well that s a double whammy habeas has some pretty high powered legal people who will gladly go to town on violators the whole point here is to give them the legal leverage they need to put spammers out of business and not only block mail from them but allow through the things that really aren t spam and if a spammer forges headers there must be some way of tracking a spammer down since they are planning on making money from the spam what a court would consider evidence of being the spammer is another question give a man a match and he ll be warm for a minute but set him on fire and he ll be warm for the rest of his life icq NUMBER advanced spam filtering software URL this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER aug NUMBER matthew cline wrote there must be some way of tracking a spammer down since they are planning on making money from the spam many spammers make money not from response to the spam but from selling the service of spamming on behalf of someone else you might track down whoever paid for the mailing but tracking down the actual sender might be more difficult and even if they manage to recover damages from the buyer they haven t stopped the spammer so the benefit is strictly to habeas not to the recipients of the spam that s the main problem i have with the whole scenario my pain habeas s gain and those most likely to be held liable are those least likely to be the really serious abusers this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER configure URL log message netbsd support patch from klaus heinz bug NUMBER index configure rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin configure v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER configure NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER configure NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure include confdefs h include sys types h include sys socket h int main printf d shut_rd return NUMBER return NUMBER eof if eval ac_cpp conftest ac_ext NUMBER NUMBER egrep shut_rd dev null NUMBER NUMBER then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then rm rf conftest shutrd yes else echo configure failed program was NUMBER cat conftest ac_ext NUMBER rm rf conftest shutrd no fi rm f conftest rm f conftest fi NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER echo ac_n checking for socket in lsocket ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for socket in lsocket NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for socket in lsocket NUMBER ac_lib_var echo socket _ socket sed y __p_ if eval test echo ac_cv_lib_ ac_lib_var set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac_save_libs libs libs lsocket libs cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h override any gccNUMBER internal prototype to avoid an error we use char because int might match the return type of a gccNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER socket return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then rm rf conftest eval ac_cv_lib_ ac_lib_var yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fi echo ac_n checking for connect in linet ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for connect in linet NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for connect in linet NUMBER ac_lib_var echo inet _ connect sed y __p_ if eval test echo ac_cv_lib_ ac_lib_var set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac_save_libs libs libs linet libs cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h override any gccNUMBER internal prototype to avoid an error we use char because int might match the return type of a gccNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER connect return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then rm rf conftest eval ac_cv_lib_ ac_lib_var yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fi echo ac_n checking for t_accept in lnsl ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for t_accept in lnsl NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for t_accept in lnsl NUMBER ac_lib_var echo nsl _ t_accept sed y __p_ if eval test echo ac_cv_lib_ ac_lib_var set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac_save_libs libs libs lnsl libs cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h override any gccNUMBER internal prototype to avoid an error we use char because int might match the return type of a gccNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_accept return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then rm rf conftest eval ac_cv_lib_ ac_lib_var yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fi echo ac_n checking for dlopen in ldl ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for dlopen in ldl NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for dlopen in ldl NUMBER ac_lib_var echo dl _ dlopen sed y __p_ if eval test echo ac_cv_lib_ ac_lib_var set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac_save_libs libs libs ldl libs cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h override any gccNUMBER internal prototype to avoid an error we use char because int might match the return type of a gccNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dlopen return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then rm rf conftest eval ac_cv_lib_ ac_lib_var yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for ac_func in socket strdup strtod strtol snprintf shutdown do echo ac_n checking for ac_func ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for ac_func NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for ac_func NUMBER if eval test echo ac_cv_func_ ac_func set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER else cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h system header to define __stub macros and hopefully few prototypes which can conflict with char ac_func below NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_link NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_link NUMBER NUMBER test s conftest ac_exeext then rm rf conftest eval ac_cv_func_ ac_func yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER echo ac_n checking for h_errno ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for h_errno NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for h_errno NUMBER if eval test echo herrno set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER else cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h include netdb h int main printf d h_errno return NUMBER return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then rm rf conftest herrno yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER echo ac_n checking for optarg ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for optarg NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for optarg NUMBER if eval test echo haveoptarg set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER else cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h include getopt h int main if optarg char NUMBERl return NUMBER return NUMBER return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then rm rf conftest haveoptarg yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER echo ac_n checking for in_addr_t ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for in_addr_t NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for in_addr_t NUMBER if eval test echo inaddrt set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER else cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h include sys types h include netinet in h int main in_addr_t foo return NUMBER return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then rm rf conftest inaddrt yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER echo ac_t inaddrt NUMBER NUMBER if test inaddrt no then echo ac_n checking for in_addr_t ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for in_addr_t NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for in_addr_t NUMBER if eval test echo ac_cv_type_in_addr_t set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER else cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h include sys types h if stdc_headers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER echo ac_n checking for inaddr_none ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for inaddr_none NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for inaddr_none NUMBER if eval test echo haveinaddrnone set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER else cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h include sys types h include netinet in h int main in_addr_t foo inaddr_none return NUMBER return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then rm rf conftest haveinaddrnone yes else NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER echo ac_n checking for ex__max ac_c NUMBER NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for ex__max NUMBER echo configure NUMBER checking for ex__max NUMBER if eval test echo haveexmax set set then echo ac_n cached ac_c NUMBER NUMBER else cat conftest ac_ext eof line NUMBER configure line NUMBER configure include confdefs h ifdef have_sysexits_h include sysexits h endif include errno h int main int foo ex__max return NUMBER return NUMBER eof if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then if eval echo configure NUMBER ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER eval ac_compile NUMBER NUMBER then rm rf conftest haveexmax yes else index URL rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin URL v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac_cache_check for shut_rd shutrd ac_egrep_header shut_rd sys socket h ac_try_compile include sys types h include sys socket h printf d shut_rd return NUMBER shutrd yes shutrd no shutrd no if test shutrd yes then ac_define have_shut_rd NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac_cache_check for in_addr_t inaddrt ac_try_compile include netinet in h ac_try_compile include sys types h include netinet in h in_addr_t foo return NUMBER inaddrt yes inaddrt no NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac_cache_check for inaddr_none haveinaddrnone ac_try_compile include netinet in h ac_try_compile include sys types h include netinet in h in_addr_t foo inaddr_none return NUMBER haveinaddrnone yes haveinaddrnone no NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ac_cache_check for ex__max haveexmax ac_try_compile include errno h ac_try_compile ifdef have_sysexits_h include sysexits h endif include errno h int foo ex__max return NUMBER haveexmax yes haveexmax no this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
 t db_based_whitelist use of bare to mean is deprecated at lib mail spamassassin html pm line NUMBER use of bare to mean is deprecated at lib mail spamassassin html pm line NUMBER unquoted string hmm could you check your installation those chars aren t in my version at all j this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
matthew cline matt nightrealms com writes there must be some way of tracking a spammer down since they are planning on making money from the spam what a court would consider evidence of being the spammer is another question haha just a few notes it will be difficult to find prosecute and win money from someone in various non friendly countries where spam originates china is a good example even if they do officially respect copyright law law suits take time between now and conclusion of the first court case we could have years of spam in our mail boxes contact information can change phone numbers po boxes stolen cell phones temporary email addresses etc spammers do not always remember to include contact information i don t understand it either but nobody said they were bright also some spam is non commercial or sent by a third party for example pump and dump stock scams so contact information is not strictly required for the spammer to get their way dan this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 on wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm robin lynn frank wrote and if a spammer forges headers header forgeries are trivially easy to detect the main way that spammers hide their originating ips is not by forging headers but by sending through open proxy servers it used to be that spammers used open relay mailserver but these often betray the originating ip and the proliferation of open relay blocklists and the introduction of port NUMBER blocking on the part of many isps make open relays unattractive to spammers one would think that the combination of a forged habeas swe and mail sent through an anonymizing open proxy would be a fairly good indication of spam tracking a spammer to his meatspace location is not as difficult as you might think once you have legal recourse to subpoena records b this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 on wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm daniel quinlan wrote just a few notes it will be difficult to find prosecute and win money from someone in various non friendly countries where spam originates china is a good example even if they do officially respect copyright law a lot of spam which appears to originate from china and even a lot which advertises websites hosted there is sent by and is done for the benefit of companies based in the us the spam often appears to originate there because it s coming from open http or squid proxy servers it s hosted there because these spammers are now persona non grata on all us isps one hardly needs to involve the chinese government in a case where a us citizen is violating us law law suits take time between now and conclusion of the first court case we could have years of spam in our mail boxes the first court cases were actually concluded years ago these include many legal precedents which are used to protect the rights of isps to block mail and to terminate service to spammers contact information can change phone numbers po boxes stolen cell phones temporary email addresses etc surprising then how much information you can find on the current whereabouts of long time spammers like alan ralksy of detroit michigan ralsky is a guy who even gives interviews to the news media if you can connect a specific corpus of spam to him his street address is well known ralsky is a prime candidate for lawsuits in any state with an anti spam law thomas cowles is another long time spammer but last i heard he d been jailed for stealing computer equipment from his business partner eddy marin also a long time spammer you ve heard of poplaunch right spammers do not always remember to include contact information i don t understand it either but nobody said they were bright also some spam is non commercial or sent by a third party for example pump and dump stock scams so contact information is not strictly required for the spammer to get their way back when i was working at maps there was a flap over a pump and dump spammer rodona garst seems she had an open file share on her laptop and when she forged the wrong domain the real owner hacked in and posted all her private information on a website oh look it s still there including the nude photos URL i recall this well because the sec was very interested in confirming the validity of the information found online there were some interesting conversations this summer the sec released the following URL yes the investigation took two years but the financial penalty for operating a pump and dump scam isn t small the wheels of government grind slow but the grind very fine indeed b this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
now that i have spam assassin and mailscanner working how can i have smap deleted rather than forwarded i changed spam actions conf to default delete but it is still sending it to the recipient thanks ken this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wednesday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm daniel quinlan wrote matthew cline matt nightrealms com writes there must be some way of tracking a spammer down since they are planning on making money from the spam what a court would consider evidence of being the spammer is another question haha just a few notes it will be difficult to find prosecute and win money from someone in various non friendly countries where spam originates china is a good example even if they do officially respect copyright law sa and other filters could be configured to ignore the swe mark if it appears to come from through china spammers do not always remember to include contact information i don t understand it either but nobody said they were bright also some spam is non commercial or sent by a third party for example pump and dump stock scams so contact information is not strictly required for the spammer to get their way sa could also be configured so that swe marks are ignored in messages that look like third party spam like stock scams of course this would still mean that the u n is going to invade america spams with swe would get through probably also need to ignore swe in messages that look like nigerian scams give a man a match and he ll be warm for a minute but set him on fire and he ll be warm for the rest of his life icq NUMBER advanced spam filtering software URL this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
guys the habeas infringers list hil exists explicitly to deal with spammers while we re getting judgments against them and especially in other countries where those judgments are harder to get please note that nobody has ever had an incentive before to go after regular spammers yes some attorneys general have prosecuted blatant pyramid schemes and isps have won some theft of service suits but the vast majority of spammers go forward with out any legal hassles so i can t understand how daniel can assert that you can t track spammers down when it s never really been tried we can subpoena the records of the business they spammed on behalf of we can subpoena the records of the isp that provided them service and of the credit card they used for the whack a mole accounts we can use private investigators yes these people are often lowlifes chickenboners but they re not secret agents they re just trying to make a buck and habeas whole business is about finding them and putting them out of business habeas has the incentive to pursue spammers that use our warrant mark in a way that no one ever has had before given that our whole business plan relies on habeas becoming synonymous with not spam i can t understand why you would assume ahead of time that we will be unsuccessful plan for that failure and in so doing remove the potential of success which is anti spam filters like sa acting on the habeas warrant mark daniel it s easy enough for you to change the habeas scores yourself on your installation if habeas fails to live up to its promise to only license the warrant mark to non spammers and to place all violators on the hil then i have no doubt that justin and craig will quickly remove us from the next release but you re trying to kill habeas before it has a chance to show any promise at the end of the day spamassassin is like the club in that it encourages thieves spammers to just go after the next car those without sa rather than yours habeas can play the role of lojack the transmitter in enabling the apprehension of thieves so that they don t steal any more cars but only if we re given a chance to succeed dan dan kohn mailto dan dankohn com URL tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER original message from daniel quinlan mailto quinlan pathname com sent wednesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to matthew cline cc spamassassin talk URL subject re satalk o t habeus why matthew cline matt nightrealms com writes there must be some way of tracking a spammer down since they are planning on making money from the spam what a court would consider evidence of being the spammer is another question haha just a few notes it will be difficult to find prosecute and win money from someone in various non friendly countries where spam originates china is a good example even if they do officially respect copyright law law suits take time between now and conclusion of the first court case we could have years of spam in our mail boxes contact information can change phone numbers po boxes stolen cell phones temporary email addresses etc spammers do not always remember to include contact information i don t understand it either but nobody said they were bright also some spam is non commercial or sent by a third party for example pump and dump stock scams so contact information is not strictly required for the spammer to get their way dan this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER brian mcnett bmcnett radparker com wrote the first court cases were actually concluded years ago these include many legal precedents which are used to protect the rights of isps to block mail and to terminate service to spammers yeah but these would be different cases relating to copyright infringements not about isp s blocking mail or not lars hansson this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
don newcomer wrote i m a new user or about to be hopefully of sa but i ve run into some compilation errors that prevent me from installing rather than picking through the code i thought i d avoid reinventing the wheel and ask here when i run the make i get the following cc error spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this declaration in_addr_t has no linka ge and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number NUMBER in file usr inc lude sys types h nolinkage typedef unsigned long in_addr_t base type for internet address don t worry about the warnings to fix the error edit spamc c and right after the line that says define ex__max NUMBER add if defined __osf__ extern char optarg typedef unsigned long in_addr_t base type for internet address endif you re adding the two lines that start with rick this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 it s this section of spamassassin raw spamassassin raw snip NUMBERd NUMBERd NUMBERd NUMBERd NUMBERd NUMBERd NUMBERd snip NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER snip this is what cvs puts in when you modify the copy of the file on your disk and someone checks in a change and then you pull an update and cvs can t figure out how to merge your changes and the checked in changes the lines between the and the are in your file and the ones in the next section are what have been checked in you must have not noticed the warning messages about conflicts that cvs gave you when you did the update and the c flag next to that file when cvs listed the files being pulled sidney this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 danq i think it would make more sense to start habeas with a less danq aggressive score one which will not give spammers a quick path danq into everyone s inbox and after we ve seen evidence that the danq system works then we can increase the magnitude of the score better yet let the ga figure out the correct score that will obviously take awhile since you ll have to acquire enough messages with it but it should give you a good idea if the presence of habeus headers are good spam indicators or not if they are my guess is that habeus will probably not succeed taking things further off topic does habeus charge a license fee to organizations who want to use their copyrighted material or is their sole revenue stream to come from legal judgements on the one hand if they charge license fees i d worry that when times got tough they d be somewhat less critical of organizations we d call spammers today in order to generate license fees if not i d worry the pendulum would swing the other way and they d go after legitimate businesses in an attempt to generate more revenues from judgements and or out of court settlements either way it seems like they have an interesting tightrope to walk skip montanaro skip URL consulting URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
dan kohn dan dankohn com writes guys the habeas infringers list hil exists explicitly to deal with spammers while we re getting judgments against them and especially in other countries where those judgments are harder to get my concern doesn t stem from failing to understand how your business is intended to work my concern is the lack of empirical evidence that it will reduce the amount of uncaught spam please note that nobody has ever had an incentive before to go after regular spammers yes some attorneys general have prosecuted blatant pyramid schemes and isps have won some theft of service suits but the vast majority of spammers go forward with out any legal hassles so i can t understand how daniel can assert that you can t track spammers down when it s never really been tried please don t misquote me i did not assert that you can t track spammers here is what i said it will be difficult to find prosecute and win money from someone in various non friendly countries where spam originates china is a good example even if they do officially respect copyright law i understand the incentive that you have to pursue spammers but that does not directly translate to less spam being sent to my inbox it is an indirect effect and the magnitude of the effect may not be sufficient to counteract the ease with which a NUMBER score on the mark allows spam to avoid being tagged as spam daniel it s easy enough for you to change the habeas scores yourself on your installation if habeas fails to live up to its promise to only license the warrant mark to non spammers and to place all violators on the hil then i have no doubt that justin and craig will quickly remove us from the next release but you re trying to kill habeas before it has a chance to show any promise i think i ve worked on sa enough to understand that i can localize a score i m just not comfortable with using spamassassin as a vehicle for drumming up your business at the expense of our user base i think it would make more sense to start habeas with a less aggressive score one which will not give spammers a quick path into everyone s inbox and after we ve seen evidence that the system works then we can increase the magnitude of the score dan this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 i think i ve worked on sa enough to understand that i can localize a score i m just not comfortable with using spamassassin as a vehicle for drumming up your business at the expense of our user base this is exactly what i think spamassassin has always been conservative about adding unproven rbls and such and this should be the same i think it would make more sense to start habeas with a less aggressive score one which will not give spammers a quick path into everyone s inbox and after we ve seen evidence that the system works then we can increase the magnitude of the score i say start it with a zero score and put it in NUMBER_cvs_rules_under_test like any other unproven rule then score it based on actual results not promises my corpus does not yet contain a single non spam or spam message with a habeas mark based on that it doesn t impress me and it wouldn t impress the ga either rules with exactly the same statistics are being dropped from sa right now and i don t see why this should be any different michael moncur mgm at URL URL furious activity is no substitute for understanding h h williams this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
urban boquist wrote if i run spamassassin on this message URL it seems to hang memory usage goes up to NUMBERmb and stays there i have let it run for an hour before i killed it this was on a pentium ii NUMBER yes i know a bit slow but still can anyone else confirm this hang maybe i should just upgrade don t run sa on mails this large most people tend to ignore mails larger than about NUMBERk in spamassassin processing because it just kills performance there are some known issues with the parsing such as the html parsing stuff which is much improved in NUMBER NUMBER which we re soon to release but nothing that s too likely to be fixed by NUMBER NUMBER perhaps in NUMBER NUMBER though matt this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
urban boquist wrote hi matt and thanks for your quick reply matt don t run sa on mails this large that would be fine if i only understood how i should do that i can t find anything in the sa documention that mentions some kind of upper limit for the size of a message what should i put in my user_prefs file i run sa from procmail btw but i can t imagine that procmail would be able to check the size of a message before handing it over to sa that s exactly what it can do NUMBERfw NUMBER spamassassin p this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER procmailrc example log message added length limit to sample procmail recipe index procmailrc example rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin procmailrc example v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER procmailrc example NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER procmailrc example NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pipe the mail through spamassassin pipe the mail through spamassassin unless it s over NUMBERk spamassassin can take a long time to process large messages NUMBERfw NUMBER spamassassin move it to the caughtspam mbox if it was tagged as spam this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
on thursday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet mike burger wrote re check i find it immediately NUMBERfw NUMBER spamassassin p works perfectly now sorry for being such a pest i m using sa via spamc spamd and a global etc procmail file i m wondering if this would also work in that fashion spamc will skip every file bigger than NUMBERk on it s own it s got the command line switch s to change this value but it doesn t hurt of course to use the procmail limit malte coding is art this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
urban boquist wrote it seems to hang memory usage goes up to NUMBERmb and stays there i have let it run for an hour before i killed it this was on a pentium ii NUMBER yes i know a bit slow but still can anyone else confirm this hang maybe i should just upgrade my environment is sa NUMBER NUMBER perl NUMBER NUMBER running on netbsd NUMBER NUMBERf version NUMBER NUMBER cvs from today on netbsd iNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER athlon NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER silence spamd NUMBER processing message NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER groda boquist net for kh NUMBER expecting NUMBER bytes aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER silence spamd NUMBER clean message NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for kh NUMBER in NUMBER seconds NUMBER bytes resident size about NUMBERmb according to top ciao klaus this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 bart schaefer said this is off the topic of the rest of this discussion but amavisd in all its incarnations and mimedefang and several other mta plugins all reject at smtp time messages that scores higher than some threshold often NUMBER argh they do not do they the fps must be just gigantic if some new release were to start scoring all spam no higher than NUMBER NUMBER there d better be _zero_ fps because all those filters would drop their thresholds to NUMBER well my point is more that we should aim our rescoring algorithm so that a spam hits NUMBER NUMBER any higher does us no good as it means an fp is a lot harder to recover from using compensation rules spams will hit higher than that that s just the way the scoring works but for our code to be effective and spread the range of scores correctly we just have to optimise to hit NUMBER threshold j this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER clayton nik it wrote have the uppercase_ rules been tested on messages in non english character sets and or where the message is mime encoded in some way i m getting a lot of false positives on japanese mail and i think the encoding is responsible for triggering this rule like justin said this is fixed in cvs dan this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
justin mason jm jmason org NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER well my point is more that we should aim our rescoring algorithm so that a spam hits NUMBER NUMBER any higher does us no good as it means an fp is a lot harder to recover from using compensation rules agreed but i have always thought that the value NUMBER was not the best value it should have been NUMBER i understand that initially only spammy scores were included but i believe the algorithm should be purely symmetrical and non spammy negative values should also have been balancing out the spammy positive values like they do in sa today then anything that was positive would be spam and anything negative would be non spam and i guess exactly zero is grey today s choice of NUMBER just adds an offset which i think cause people to assume things work differently than they do bob ,0
jm URL justin mason writes btw i tried tweaking some of the scores that lint rules complained about being negative when they shouldn t be and it ruined the results it s worth hand tweaking a bit but in some cases there s counter intuitive combinatorial effects like the above so be careful when tweaking run a logs to c evolve c to check the new hitrates afterwards my tendency is to say that we shouldn t tweak at all dan ,0
nanananana c on friday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am justin mason wrote looks like my algos aren t flexible enough and craig wins ,0
daniel quinlan wrote dq before we release it d be great if someone could test a few dq additional score ranges maybe we can lower fps a bit more i don t think there s much more room for lowering fps left which the ga can achieve remember also that the awl will reduce fps but its effects aren t factored in to the ga scores the work currently being done on the ga and comparing different methods of doing the score setting is very worthwhile and extremely useful however we really ought to get a release out since NUMBER NUMBER is getting decreasingly useful as time goes on the fp fn rate of NUMBER NUMBER with pretty well any score setting mechanism will be better than NUMBER NUMBER we can continue with adjusting how the scores are set on the NUMBER NUMBER or NUMBER NUMBER branches dq something like dq dq for low NUMBER low NUMBER low NUMBER dq for high NUMBER high NUMBER high NUMBER dq evolve you could just allow low and high to be evolved by the ga within ranges i d be enormously surprised if it didn t end up with low NUMBER and high NUMBER since that d give the ga the broadest lattitude in setting individual scores the issue with fixing low and high is not one of optimization but rather one of human based concern that individual scores larger than about NUMBER are dangerous and liable to generate fps and individual scores less than NUMBER are dangerous and liable to be forged to generate fns dq maybe even add a nybias loop adding an nybias loop is not worthwhile changing nybias scores will just alter the evaluation function s idea of what the fp fn ratio should be dq afaik there s nothing major hanging out waiting to be checked in dq on bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER is there dq dq nope great dq i ll be on im most of today tomorrow and monday while cranking dq on the next deersoft product release should be a fun one hit dq me at dq dq aim hughNUMBERscr dq icq NUMBER dq msn craig URL dq yim hughescr dq dq we ve been hanging out on irc at URL on spamassassin dq the timezone difference gets in the way though i ve been searching for that but i guess the details of where the channel was got lost in the shuffle c ,0
 on thu NUMBER aug NUMBER rick beebe wrote cc error spamd spamc c line NUMBER in this declaration in_addr_t has no linka ge and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number NUMBER in file usr inc lude sys types h nolinkage typedef unsigned long in_addr_t base type for internet address don t worry about the warnings to fix the error edit spamc c and right thanks for posting this tip i had the same problem compiling with truNUMBER and that took care of it when i did the make install i got this error lock f etc mail spamassassin URL cp rules URL etc mail spamassassin URL sh syntax error at line NUMBER unexpected exit NUMBER stop it appears that this comes from the inst_cfs part of the makefile which copies URL into etc mail spamassassin the makefile has brackets around the f test but they don t show up above any ideas jim james h mccullars i phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER director of systems operations i fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER computer network services i internet mccullj URL the university of alabama i in huntsville i huntsville al NUMBER i this space for rent cheap this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER justin mason wrote razor vNUMBER now supported fully grrr who changed my code URL and URL wrt razor have pointers to mail spamassassin debug whereas it should be mail spamassassin debug enabled i ll be submitting a bug patch for this shortly randomly generated tagline ma driving NUMBER everything is under construction ,0
folks some of you seem to have hardcoded honor as the default catalogue server there are three catalogue only servers running now and honor is acting as a nomination only server tonight we will be completely turning off catalogue support on honor so if you are specifying honor with the rs option please take it out and let the agents discover a closeby catalogue server cheers vipul vipul ved prakash the future is here it s just not software design artist widely distributed URL william gibson this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i know that i did this during the week that all the catalogue s were hokey but after that i changed it back to discovery so i can see why people are using honor original message from vipul ved prakash mailto mail vipul net sent thursday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to razor users URL subject razor users honor is not in csl folks some of you seem to have hardcoded honor as the default catalogue server there are three catalogue only servers running now and honor is acting as a nomination only server tonight we will be completely turning off catalogue support on honor so if you are specifying honor with the rs option please take it out and let the agents discover a closeby catalogue server cheers vipul vipul ved prakash the future is here it s just not software design artist widely distributed URL william gibson this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i m after a recipe for using razor with sendmail unfortunately i can t get procmail on my hosting but i do have full access to the sendmail alias list can anyone point me at some docs for this as i couldn t find anything in the razor docs julian bond email msm julian bond URL webmaster URL personal weblog URL cv resume URL m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i recently installed razor vNUMBER NUMBER and started using it i am finding it necessary to whitelist a _lot_ of mailing lists some such as yahoogroups i can t whitelist because the from address is the person making the post so i will have to whitelist on another field when i can modify my code to do so i wonder if someone is not being careful about their submissions or if these are bad mailing lists that don t drop bad mail addresses that become trollboxes in time any employee who has left my company more than three years ago is eligible to become a trollbox i figure after three years of bounced mail the list should have figured out they aren t here any more fox this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
good day fox on fri NUMBER aug NUMBER fox wrote i recently installed razor vNUMBER NUMBER and started using it i am finding it necessary to whitelist a _lot_ of mailing lists some such as yahoogroups i can t whitelist because the from address is the person making the post so i will have to whitelist on another field when i can modify my code to do so i wonder if someone is not being careful about their submissions or if these are bad mailing lists that don t drop bad mail addresses that become trollboxes in time i ve found excellent luck with the x been____there header ____ s added to to avoid tripping procmail rules ____x been____there news URL cheers bill nynex iroquois for moron a well known linux kernel hacker william stearns wstearns pobox com mason buildkernel namedNUMBERhosts and ipfwadmNUMBERipchains are at URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on fri aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER rose bobby wrote if you didn t add it when compile would be one way another would be to grep your URL for the word milter i don t know if there s a sendmail ish way it s not in the dNUMBER NUMBER output but this should work strings which sendmail grep i milter if you get a long list of function message looking phrases milter is built in if you get something like warning filter usage x requires milter support dmilter milter warning option s requires milter support dmilter id milter c v NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER zarzycki exp then it s not built in randomly generated tagline m can anyone tell us the lesson that has been learned here s yes master not a single one of us could defeat you m you gain wisdom child the frantics ,0
 bort paul pbort tmwsystems com wrote if your sendmail has been compiled with milter support you can add smrazor easily we ve been using it for a while without problems others on the list have mentioned it as well URL is there an easy way to tell if milter is compiled in julian bond email msm julian bond URL webmaster URL personal weblog URL cv resume URL m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
if you didn t add it when compile would be one way another would be to grep your URL for the word milter original message from julian bond mailto julian_bond URL sent friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to razor users URL subject re razor users razor with sendmail bort paul pbort tmwsystems com wrote if your sendmail has been compiled with milter support you can add smrazor easily we ve been using it for a while without problems others on the list have mentioned it as well URL is there an easy way to tell if milter is compiled in julian bond email msm julian bond URL webmaster URL personal weblog URL cv resume URL m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on fri aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER sven willenberger wrote to see all the options compiled into and version of sendmail try the following line echo z path to sendmail bt dNUMBER gives you the same information as sendmail dNUMBER NUMBER dev null which doesn t include milter information actually the dNUMBER part gives you the info the z gives you sendmail version out of the test mode bt so it s slightly different but not really randomly generated tagline be warned that typing fbkillall finame fp may not have the desired effect on non linux systems especially when done by a privileged user from the killall manual page ,0
if you need to store a database password then clearly the first step is to store the text outside the web tree you can encrypt it and store the encryption key elsewhere so that at least an attacker has to get two different things also don t get full privileges create a user account that is granted very limited access however you can often do better than this if security is critical create a separate program which has these database keys as noted above and make the web program contact it create a very limited protocol that only lets you do the operations you need you can add specific operations later there s a performance hit which you re trading for improved data isolation giorgio zoppi wrote on fri aug NUMBER NUMBER david wheeler wrote the standard way to store passwords is not to store passwords instead store a salted hash of the password in a database when you get a purported password you re salt it compute the hash and determine if they are the same this is how unix has done it for years you want bigger hashes and salts than the old unix systems and you still want to prevent reading from those files to foil password crackers more info is in my book at URL well but this cannot be applied to database password which most web apps use the only solution i figure is store in clear outside web tree any other ideas feasible ciao giorgio never is forever deneb URL homepage URL david a wheeler dwheeler URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER hi i am wondering if there are any techniques to make a cd key of the like unbreakable either by giving it a cancelation date and a periodic renewal from a server or just by using self mdNUMBER signature on the resulting executable i know it must not be easy because the whole software piracy problem would be resolved but there must be some way to make it really hard to break it anyone have hints on this issue thanks yannick gingras network programer esc wq begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux comment for info see URL idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERbpyzuvNUMBERgNUMBERdnfo qraqbhakchtekxwdNUMBERzdmwf okakjxnnpknwacgtxzNUMBER vNUMBERbbabueNUMBERvx uyNUMBERfhnNUMBERifs uwqj end pgp signature ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER le NUMBER septembre NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER vous avez écrit yannick you ll want to peruse fravia s web site on reverse engineering and other things URL that specific page covers just your concerns josh thanks for the input some of the tips are quite portable but are there any special attentions to take when implementing such shemes on a unix system thanks yannick gingras coder for obb ostentatiously breathless brother in law URL begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux comment for info see URL idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERdqNUMBERguvNUMBERgNUMBERdnfo qrapsxakcjdNUMBERfovvljetNUMBERxNUMBERextihruvtNUMBERkacenayd wdzlxjxjdmlfhnrnNUMBERcdNUMBERm NUMBERclx end pgp signature ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER what do you mean by cd key or the like i presume that of was a typo and what do you mean by unbreakable of was a typo unbreakable would mean here that no one even previously authorised entity could use the system without paying the periodic subscription fee you need to be far more explicit about the problem which you wish to solve and about the constraints involved it could be an online system that work NUMBER offline but poll frequently an offsite server no mass production cds maybe mass personalised d l like sun jdk nothing is fixed yet we are looking at the way a software can be protected from unauthorized utilisation is the use of trusted hardware really worth it does it really make it more secure look at the dvds yannick gingras coder for obb obdurately buteonine bellwether URL begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux comment for info see URL idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERdrrnuvNUMBERgNUMBERdnfo qrakNUMBERnakclahtmyrugpNUMBERko dejcvjNUMBERmqfjzacgwqvo wzNUMBER cmuaNUMBERhcmzvycdNUMBERxdNUMBERq vNUMBERgNUMBER end pgp signature ,0
 yannick gingras wrote i am wondering if there are any techniques to make a cd key of the like unbreakable either by giving it a cancelation date and a periodic renewal from a server or just by using self mdNUMBER signature on the resulting executable i know it must not be easy because the whole software piracy problem would be resolved but there must be some way to make it really hard to break it anyone have hints on this issue what do you mean by cd key or the like i presume that of was a typo and what do you mean by unbreakable you need to be far more explicit about the problem which you wish to solve and about the constraints involved some general points NUMBER for a conventional cd key system where the actual cds are mass produced where you have many identical cds and the entire system has to work offline you cannot solve the problem of valid keys being traded e g included along with bootleg copies of the product if there s an online element involved you can tie keys to a specific hardware configuration as is done afaik for windows xp s product activation NUMBER anything which uses a symmetric cipher or hash is bound to be vulnerable to reverse engineering of the validation routines within the executable NUMBER ultimately any software mechanism will be vulnerable to cracking i e modifying the software to disable or circumvent the validation checks this can only be prevented by the use of trusted hardware e g a palladium style system most significantly the data must be supplied in a form which is only accessible by that hardware if anyone can get at the data in a meaningful i e unencrypted form they can extract the useful parts and discard the rest i e any associated protection mechanisms iow you have to keep the genie in the bottle at all times if the data can be got at just once even if it requires the use of dedicated hardware such as a bus analyser it can then be duplicated and distributed without limit glynn clements glynn clements virgin net ,0
 yannick gingras wrote what do you mean by cd key or the like i presume that of was a typo and what do you mean by unbreakable of was a typo unbreakable would mean here that no one even previously authorised entity could use the system without paying the periodic subscription fee you need to be far more explicit about the problem which you wish to solve and about the constraints involved it could be an online system that work NUMBER offline but poll frequently an offsite server no mass production cds maybe mass personalised d l like sun jdk nothing is fixed yet we are looking at the way a software can be protected from unauthorized utilisation is the use of trusted hardware really worth it answering that requires fairly complete knowledge of the business model but in all probability no it isn t usually worth it so it comes down to how difficult you want to make the cracker s job if the product requires occasional authentication simple copying won t work the product has to be cracked in which case the issue is whether you re actually going to enter into battle with the crackers or just make sure that it isn t trivial a lot of it comes down to your customer base teenage kids tend to be more concerned about cost and less concerned about viruses trojans and so more willing to use warez fortune NUMBER corporations are likely to view matters differently does it really make it more secure yes software techniques will only get you so far actually the same is ultimately true for hardware but cracking hardware is likely to require resources other than just labour almost anything can be reverse engineered but it may be possible to ensure that doing so is uneconomical look at the dvds iirc css was cracked by reverse engineering a software player and one where the developers forgot to encrypt the decryption key at that glynn clements glynn clements virgin net ,0
 is the use of trusted hardware really worth it answering that requires fairly complete knowledge of the business model but in all probability no it isn t usually worth it so it comes down to how difficult you want to make the cracker s job look at the dvds iirc css was cracked by reverse engineering a software player and one where the developers forgot to encrypt the decryption key at that this make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards they have an internal procession unit around NUMBERmhz can we consider them as trusted hardware the ability to ship smart cards periodicaly uppon cashing of a monthly subscription fee would not raise too much the cost of renting the system smart card do their own self encryption can they be used to decrypt data needed by the system the input of the system could me mangled and the would keep a reference of how long it was in service this sounds really feasible but i may be totaly wrong i may also be wrong about the safety of a smart card what do you think yannick gingras coder for obb oceangoing bared bonanza URL ,0
 software vendors have been trying since forever to prevent software piracy remember when you had to enter a specific word from a specific page of the software manual which was printed on dark maroon paper so that it could not be photocopied didn t work propritery encoding of dvd s didn t work software that required the use of a registration key didn t work windows xp was shipped with this supposedly revolutionary method for stopping piracy and what happened how long was it before the code was cracked how many keygens are there for windows xp is someone running a pirated version of xp really going to use windows update to installed a service pack which breaks their os just because m didn t include the change in their readme fat chance my problem is not the same as ms s one i don t have to deal with millions of identical copy of the same cd with propably millions of working keys each download can be unique with a small preparation delay the key generator is a problem only if multiple keys are usable if the end users are teenagers you ll face a huge wall when asking to be NUMBER of the time online but if we think of something like a health care system that keep track of patients personnal information the end user will be willing to take every possible steps to protect the system from his own employees to use illegaly i agree with all of you that mass production cds will not be safe from piracy in a near futur that can be seen as a collateral of mass market penetration btw thanks for all of you who provided interestiong insight i m playing with gdb s dissassembler now but i don t think it s what a typical cracker would use any hints on unix cracking tools thanks yannick gingras coder for obb onside brainsick bract URL ,0
yannick gingras wrote is the use of trusted hardware really worth it does it really make it more secure look at the dvds dvds don t use trusted hardware as for whether it is worth it that depends entirely on what its worth to secure your software cheers ben URL URL there is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn t mind who gets the credit robert woodruff ,0
errr not to be pedantic or anything but this is called omit one testing or oot in the literature iirc helpful in case you re searching for additional information say at URL for instance david leblanc seattle wa usa ,0
tim peters wrote i ve run no experiments on training set size yet and won t hazard a guess as to how much is enough i m nearly certain that the NUMBERh NUMBERs i ve been using is way more than enough though okay i believe you each call to learn and to unlearn computes a new probability for every word in the database there s an official way to avoid that in the first two loops e g for msg in spam gb learn msg true false gb update_probabilities i did that it s still really slow when you have thousands of messages in each of the last two loops the total of ham and total of spam in the learned set is invariant across loop trips and you could break into the abstraction to exploit that the only probabilities that actually change across those loop trips are those associated with the words in msg then the runtime for each trip would be proportional to the of words in the msg rather than the number of words in the database i hadn t tried that i figured it was better to find out if all but one testing had any appreciable value it looks like it doesn t so i ll forget about it another area for potentially fruitful study it s clear that the highest value indicators usually appear early in msgs and for spam there s an actual reason for that advertising has to strive to get your attention early so for example if we only bothered to tokenize the first NUMBER of a msg would results get worse spammers could exploit this including a large mime part at the beginning of the message in pratice that would probably work fine sometimes an on topic message starts well but then rambles never i remember the time when i was ten years old and went down to the fishing hole with my buddies this guy named gordon had a really huge head wait maybe that was joe well no matter as i recall it was a hot day and everyone was tired human growth hormone girl with huge breasts blah blah blah ,0
david leblanc wrote errr not to be pedantic or anything but this is called omit one testing or oot in the literature iirc i have no idea i made up the name thanks for the correction neil ,0
 skip montanaro any thought to wrapping up your spam and ham test sets for inclusion w the spambayes project i gave it all the thought it deserved wink it would be wonderful to get several people cranking on the same test data and i m all in favor of that otoh my data subtree currently has more than NUMBER NUMBER files slobbering over NUMBER million bytes even if i had a place to put that much stuff i m not sure my isp would let me email it in one msg wink apart from that there was a mistake very early on whose outcome was that this isn t the data i hoped i was using i hoped i was using a snapshot of only recent msgs to match the snapshot this way of only spam from NUMBER but turns out they actually go back to the last millennium greg ward is currently capturing a stream coming into URL and i hope we can get a more modern and cleaner test set out of that but if that stream contains any private email it may not be ethically possible to make that available can you think of anyplace to get a large shareable ham sample apart from a public mailing list everyone s eager to share their spam but spam is so much alike in so many ways that s the easy half of the data collection problem ,0
 tim i gave it all the thought it deserved wink it would be tim wonderful to get several people cranking on the same test data and tim i m all in favor of that otoh my data subtree currently has tim more than NUMBER NUMBER files slobbering over NUMBER million bytes even if tim i had a place to put that much stuff i m not sure my isp would let tim me email it in one msg wink do you have a dialup or something more modern wink NUMBERmb of messages zipped would probably compress pretty well under NUMBERmb i d guess with all the similarity in the headers and such you could zip each of the NUMBER sets individually and upload them somewhere tim can you think of anyplace to get a large shareable ham sample tim apart from a public mailing list everyone s eager to share their tim spam but spam is so much alike in so many ways that s the easy tim half of the data collection problem how about random sampling lots of public mailing lists via gmane or something similar manually cleaning it distributing that load over a number of people and then relying on your clever code and your rebalancing script to help further cleanse it the problem with the ham is it tends to be much more tied to one person not just intimate but unique than the spam i save all incoming email for ten days gzipped mbox format before it rolls over and disappears at any one time i think i have about NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER messages most of it isn t terribly personal which i would cull before passing along anyway and much of it is machine generated so would be of marginal use finally it s all ham n spam mixed together do we call that an omelette or a denny s grand slam skip ,0
 tim another area for potentially fruitful study it s clear that the highest value indicators usually appear early in msgs and for spam there s an actual reason for that advertising has to strive to get your attention early so for example if we only bothered to tokenize the first NUMBER of a msg would results get worse neil schemenauer spammers could exploit this including a large mime part at the beginning of the message in pratice that would probably work fine note that URL s current tokenizer only looks at decoded text mime sections or raw message text if no mime exists spammers could put megabytes of other crap before that and it wouldn t even be looked at except that the email package has to parse non text parts well enough to skip over them and tokens for the most interesting parts of content type disposition transfer encoding decorations are generated for all mime sections schemes that remain ignorant of mime are vulnerable to spammers putting arbitrary amounts of nice text in the preamble area after the headers and before the first mime section which most mail readers don t display but which appear first in the file so are latched on to by graham s scoring scheme but i don t worry about clever spammers i ve seen no evidence that they exist NUMBER NUMBER wink even if they do the open source zoo is such that no particular scheme will gain dominance and there s no percentage for spammers in trying to fool just one scheme even if they did for the kind of scheme we re using here they can t know what nice text is not unless they pay a lot of attention to the spam targets and highly tailor their messages to each different one at that point they d be doing targeted marketing and the cost of the game to them would increase enormously if you re out to make a quick buck you don t waste a second on hard targets ly y rs tim ,0
 i ve got a test set here that s the last NUMBER and a bit years email to info URL and info URL it s a really ugly set of NUMBER NUMBER messages currently broken into NUMBER NUMBER spam NUMBER NUMBER ham NUMBER NUMBER currently unclassified these addresses are all over the NUMBER some different ekit ekno isiconnect websites so they get a lot of spam as well as the usual spam it also has customers complaining about credit card charges it has people interested in the service and asking questions about long distance rates c c c lots and lots of commercial speech in other words stuff that sa gets pretty badly wrong i m currently mangling it by feeding all parts text html whatever else into the filters as well as both a selected number of headers to from content type x mailer and also a list of header count_of_header this is showing up some nice stuff e g the x uidl that stoopid spammers blindly copy into their messages i did have received in there but it s out for the moment as it causes rates to drop i m also stripping out html tags except for href and src there s so so much goodness in them note that i m only keeping the contents of the attributes anthony baxter anthony interlink com au it s never too late to have a happy childhood ,0
 tim peters wrote i ve actually got a bunch of spam like that the text plain is something like this is a html message and nothing else are you sure that s in a text plain mime section i ve seen that many times myself but it s always been in the prologue between mime sections so it s something a non mime aware reader will show you nod i know on my todo is to feed the prologue into the system as well a snippet hopefully not enough to trigger the spam filters to intoNUMBERj URL x mailer microsoft outlook express NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mimeole produced by microsoft mimeole v d NUMBER NUMBER mime version NUMBER NUMBER date sun NUMBER jan NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER content type multipart mixed boundary _nextpart_NUMBER_NUMBERf_NUMBERbdfNUMBERcNUMBER fabacNUMBER bNUMBER content transfer encoding NUMBERbit this is a mime message _nextpart_NUMBER_NUMBERf_NUMBERbdfNUMBERcNUMBER fabacNUMBERbNUMBER content type multipart alternative boundary _nextpart_NUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBERbdfNUMBERcNUMBER fabacNUMBERbNUMBER _nextpart_NUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBERbdfNUMBERcNUMBER fabacNUMBERbNUMBER content type text plain charset iso NUMBER NUMBER content transfer encoding quoted printable this is an html message _nextpart_NUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBERbdfNUMBERcNUMBER fabacNUMBERbNUMBER content type text html charset iso NUMBER NUMBER content transfer encoding quoted printable doctype html public wNUMBERc dtd html NUMBER NUMBEReNUMBER transitional en html head ,0
 anthony baxter wrote i m currently mangling it by feeding all parts text html whatever else into the filters as well as both a selected number of headers to from content type x mailer and also a list of header count_of_header this is showing up some nice stuff e g the x uidl that stoopid spammers blindly copy into their messages the other thing on my todo list probably tonight s tram ride home is to add all headers from non text parts of multipart messages if nothing else it ll pick up most virus email real quick anthony baxter anthony interlink com au it s never too late to have a happy childhood ,0
on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER justin mason wrote razor vNUMBER now supported fully hmmm i just upgraded from my modified NUMBER NUMBER to a slightly modified NUMBER NUMBER i add a routine to evaltests and get sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER eclectic spamd NUMBER razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER i haven t quite figured out why yet more to come randomly generated tagline so on one hand honey is an amazingly sophisticated and efficient food source on the other hand it s bee backwash alton brown good eats pantry raid iv comb alone ,0
hi i ve just installed spamassassin and relevant modules just tried the initial test spamassassin t sample nonspam txt nonspam out and got back broken pipe i ve also tried using the p and pipe option but to no avail any help greatly appreciated btw i m no great perl expert rgds peter __________________________________________________ do you yahoo everything you ll ever need on one web page from news and sport to email and music charts URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER richard kimber wrote on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt bart schaefer schaefer zanshin com wrote if you re using fetchmail mda spamassassin or the equivlent then this change means your current setup will no longer work oh well i guess there are other anti spam options out there well a you don t have to upgrade and b what you are doing has never been safe in the first place because spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER and before doesn t do any kind of file locking while it writes to the mailbox and doesn t promise to return the proper failure code on disk full conditions etc if you re still willing to live with b all you need is a little shell script to run spamassassin bin sh call this file spamassassin wrapper and chmod x it echo from NUMBER date sed e NUMBER from d spamassassin echo mail and then use fetchmail mda spamassassin wrapper f and you should be all set this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin masses tenpass in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER tenpass log message directory cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin masses tenpass added to the repository this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
 URL jm URL changed what removed added status new resolved resolution fixed additional comments from jm URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ok now in you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from felicity URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from the sa dev mailing list ln s dev null root razor razor agent log the question is why does NUMBER NUMBER do this whereas my NUMBER NUMBER doesn t hmmm you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER justin mason wrote URL NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER tar gz NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL not that i m not grateful but i d really like to install from a src rpm any takers tia time flies like the wind fruit flies like a banana stranger things have happened but none stranger than this does your driver s license say organ donor black holes are where god divided by zero listen to me we are all individuals what if this weren t a hypothetical question steveo URL ,0
 craig URL said seems like a good idea we might get one of two other issues raised tomorrow too once us people get back to work tomorrow and start downloading NUMBER NUMBER in earnest yep i reckon that s likely btw i m hearing reports about problems resolving URL anyone else noticing this if it s serious i ll see if i can get mark reynolds to add a NUMBERndary in the us to go with the primaries in oz looks like there may be a razorNUMBER issue i think this is a razor bug glitch triggered when file permissions don t allow its own log system to work at least that s the report i heard on the razor list in the past theo does it work now that you dev null d the logfile version number says cvs tag tree as rel this time too i won t bother tagging with rel imo i don t think we should rely on the version control system inside our code so i ve just put a line in mail spamassassin pm instead i will of course tag with a release label though j ,0
 zeek said this was thoroughly confusing but by playing musical chairs with the spamd args i smashed a bug ok spamd debug daemonize auto whitelist username nobody allowed ips NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ok spamd debug daemonize auto whitelist username nobody allowed ips NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER not ok spamd debug daemonize auto whitelist username nobody allowed ips NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fwiw i can t reproduce this with spamd debug auto whitelist allowed ips NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamd debug auto whitelist allowed ips NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamd debug auto whitelist allowed ips NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which i presume is what you meant except for the missing args of course they all seem to work ok j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
thank you lars for your reply to my query sa doesnt do any of these it is probably a function of whatever scanning system mda you re using amavis procmail whatever what exactly are you using i am using spamassassin as part of the mailscanner package using sendmail as the mta it integrates nicely in there and shares a configuration file with sa all very neat sa in itself does nothing really you need a frontend procmail amavis etc at some point in the mail delivery chain that can hand over the message to sa and do whatever other processing you want i thought that sa rated a message with a certain score then did a certain action such as store deliver delete based on the configuration given i was hoping there were some other actions that i could custom program in again many thanks adrian this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin lib mail spamassassin in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER lib mail spamassassin modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER URL log message added deprecation regarding starting line with space reserved for future use also changed sample version_tag index URL rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin lib mail spamassassin URL v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER files loaded from the usr share spamassassin and etc mail spamassassin directories the c character starts a comment which continues until end of line and whitespace in the files is not significant the c character starts a comment which continues until end of line whitespace in the files is not significant but please note that starting a line with whitespace is deprecated as we reserve its use for multi line rule definitions at some point in the future paths can use c to refer to the user s home directory NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER eg version_tag perkelNUMBER version NUMBER NUMBER perkelNUMBER version_tag myrulesNUMBER version NUMBER NUMBER myrulesNUMBER cut this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
this is a warning message only your message remains in the server queue the server will try to send it again you should not try to resend your message now message delivery to casimir URL delayed smtp module domain URL reports URL no response ,0
on thursday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet mike burger wrote just loaded up sa NUMBER NUMBER from theo s rpms spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and perl mail spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on a rh NUMBER NUMBER system with perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER running on it i m getting messages that seem to indicate that sa can t find permsgstatus like so sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER burgers spamd NUMBER failed to run ctype_just_html spamassassin test skipping i can t locate object method check_for_content_type_just_html via package mail spamassassin permsgstatus perhaps you forgot to load mail spamassassin permsgstatus at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin URL line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER any ideas perl doesn t complain that it can t find URL but the function check_for_content_type_just_html do you probably have some old rules files still lurking around this test existed in NUMBER NUMBER but is gone was renamed with NUMBER NUMBER malte coding is art this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
i m getting an error page from URL when i try to go to URL just fyi larry rosenman URL phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail ler URL us mail NUMBER steamboat springs drive garland tx NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 clark c evans said hello i m hosted on a freebsd box where i can t modify the local perl installation i downloaded and installed procmail in my home directory and now i m trying to get spamassassin to work bash NUMBER NUMBER perl URL prefix home cce sysconfdif home cce etc warning prerequisite html parser NUMBER not found at eval NUMBER line NUMBER warning prerequisite pod usage NUMBER not found at eval NUMBER line NUMBER sysconfdif is not a known makemaker parameter name sysconfdir j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 kerry nice said what about some reality check rules yeah you can pack in lots of things into the header to try and get some negative points but do they all make sense in combination can you have a pine message id in the same header with an outlook express one or a mutt user agent yes this is a big bonus of meta rules new in NUMBER NUMBER we can now e g check for an outlook style forwarded message and not give it negative points unless it contains other signs of being from outlook i think the headers should be paid special attention to the message content of something from the ny times or lockergnome might look spammy but usually they don t forge or fake anything in the header tone down the negative scores and ding them extra for any obvious forgeries when we get more good nice tests the ga will assign lower scores to them i think the current problem is that there are very few really good nice tests in the current rulebase and lots of ve tests that those newsletters hit giving the ga a big problem to solve j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 jesus climent said d output bareword found where operator expected at eval NUMBER line NUMBER near NUMBERfreemegs_url_uri_test missing operator before freemegs_url_uri_test bareword found whe is that a bug or is a fault in my system looks like there s an out of date copy of the rules files on your system that rules is called freemegs_url nowadays j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
btw i ve been thinking a little about the rpms and other packages already the pld guys are distributing NUMBER rpms perl mail spamassassin the perl modules spamassassin the spamassassin and spamd scripts spamd rc file etc spamassassin tools mass check masses directory stuff etc for generating rescore data from corpora this seems like a good way to do it this way stuff which just needs the perl modules doesn t need to require the full rpm be installed with rc files in init d etc it s been adopted in the distributed spec file anyway theo btw what s the eval test you add in the tvd version of the rpm j this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
it s possible i performed the update via rpm u which of course created all the new rulesets as xx_rulename cf rpmnew crud i ll have to start moving things around on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER malte s stretz wrote on thursday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet mike burger wrote just loaded up sa NUMBER NUMBER from theo s rpms spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and perl mail spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on a rh NUMBER NUMBER system with perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER running on it i m getting messages that seem to indicate that sa can t find permsgstatus like so sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER burgers spamd NUMBER failed to run ctype_just_html spamassassin test skipping i can t locate object method check_for_content_type_just_html via package mail spamassassin permsgstatus perhaps you forgot to load mail spamassassin permsgstatus at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin URL line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER any ideas perl doesn t complain that it can t find URL but the function check_for_content_type_just_html do you probably have some old rules files still lurking around this test existed in NUMBER NUMBER but is gone was renamed with NUMBER NUMBER malte this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
i finally found the spamassassin ninja s after months of searchng i found the litte guys at a bowling alley in valencia here s a shot of my beloved clan URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
sorry for the dupe thought the com address would bounce my bad this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER josh hildebrand wrote unfortunately when i run that it complains about the h parameter f NUMBER NUMBER remove add from line at start of output default NUMBER but i can run it on the command line as spamd d c a h just fine anyone else run into this problem you look to have NUMBER versions of spamd installed the one running from the rc script is pre NUMBER NUMBER there is a h now and f has been removed but the one you run from the commandline seems to be a NUMBER NUMBERx version i would find that old version of sa and blow it away randomly generated tagline if you lend someone NUMBER and never see that person again it was probably worth it zen musings ,0
on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER matt sergeant wrote can anyone out there who uses sa with lotus notes users help us figure out what to tell customers to do when they ve got emails coming in with spam identifying headers we ve been told that notes has no way to handle extra headers but i m sure that can t be universally true i ve searched the net and it seems that notes can only filter based on the visible headers i e sender subject precedence etc is there any way to filter based on x headers yes the only way out with notes looks like changing the subject subject_tag regards sl stephane lentz alcanet international internet services this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER bugzilla daemon URL wrote another or would look terrible let s just use a letter if aesthetics are your concern i think an x will look just fine x is fine but let s not take out the config option if people really want to have it be something else we shouldn t hinder them randomly generated tagline and the next time you consider complaining that running lucid emacs NUMBER NUMBER via nfs from a remote linux machine in paraguay doesn t seem to get the background colors right you ll know who to thank by matt welsh ,0
 URL additional comments from felicity URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER subject re sadev spam_level_char option change removal on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER bugzilla daemon URL wrote another or would look terrible let s just use a letter if aesthetics are your concern i think an x will look just fine x is fine but let s not take out the config option if people really want to have it be something else we shouldn t hinder them you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
on saturday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet daniel quinlan wrote craig hughes craig hughes family org writes how about configuring sa to set precendence to low for spam messages then filter on that no real human i ve ever seen has actually set precendence to low on real mail assuming there isn t a better way for lotus notes users we could create a precedence spam convention the only two precedence headers i ve seen aside from one or two odd messages are bulk and list adding a spam header makes sense given the convention i d suggest using precedence junk albeit it s no standard header does most software already recognize it courier eg doesn t send auto replies to mails with the precedence bulk or junk i think outlook does handle these special too NUMBER says autoresponses should always contain the header precedence junk notice the spelling of prec e dence in particular count the number of n s and a s and s es if you re totally agraphic and or from the united states this will prevent well tempered mail programs from generating bounce messages for these if the recipient can t be reached the autoresponder message is simply discarded for what it s worth the meaning of the precedence header in practice is that it affects sendmail so that messages identified as less important get moved back in the queue under high load malte NUMBER moronic mail autoresponders a faq from hell URL coding is art this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
i thought i d installed razor correctly but i am seeing the following in my logs can anyone give me a hitn sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER omega spamd NUMBER razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t locate object method new via package net dns resolver perhaps you forgot to load net dns resolver at eval NUMBER line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER i propagated at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin dns pm line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER robin lynn frank paradigm omega llc the only certainty about documentation is that whoever wrote it might have understood it the rest of us may not be so lucky this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
despite my lack of confidence to upgrade to NUMBER NUMBER using the tarball instead of cpan it worked with the help of others got razor working i did however notice something in my logs which happened twice but hasn t recurred sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER omega spamd NUMBER razorNUMBER check skipped permission denied can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER robin lynn frank paradigm omega llc the only certainty about documentation is that whoever wrote it might have understood it the rest of us may not be so lucky this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on monday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet matt sergeant wrote malte s stretz wrote so i d vote for a complete removal of NUMBER_whitelists cf and a page URL where we list common whitelist entries instead i would happily agree to that though maybe it should be a wiki just imagine what ronnie scelson would do to a wiki shudder m coding is art this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from larry URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dan to answer your question to my post which maybe should be a seperate bug i m using spamassassin version NUMBER NUMBER you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 cw carlo wood carlo alinoe com writes cw to manually decode the baseNUMBER part cw can someone please tell me how to do that google baseNUMBER decode the first three results look useful in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wednesday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cet justin mason wrote malte s stretz said i think we should even add new ga d rules to NUMBER NUMBERx and or remove old ones and tag a new NUMBER NUMBER only if we have a bunch of features worth a dangerous big update i d say yes you should expect NUMBER NUMBER and also NUMBER NUMBER but update to NUMBER NUMBER now i would think adding new rules to or removing broken rules from NUMBER NUMBERx would require some discussion first but new ga d scores are definitely worth putting in as the ones there are too wild i think my mail wasn t very clear my point was that we should continue releasing new rules and removing broken ones all based on discussions on this list of course in the NUMBER NUMBER branch instead of creating a new NUMBER NUMBER branch everytime we have a bunch of new rules a new branch should be openend only if big new features are introduced eg bayes or the interface has changed spam_level_char x as the rules are under fluent development the user has to update quite regularly but currently he couldn t be shure if the new release will break anything in his setup like f going away so if we say the branches are stable to the outside and just improved under the surface but you have to watch out when you update to a new minor version number users and sysadmins could be less reluctant to update all just imho o malte p s i ll be away from my box and my mail account for one week starting tomorrow so happy coding for the next week coding is art ,0
this is not directly spamassassin related but more of a general dealing with spam issue what is the best way to deal with spam during the smtp transaction there are domains and addresses that i know are spam at the mail from and can deal with at the smtp level i have been and i think most people respond with a NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER code a permanent error that pretty much means don t bother to try from that address again you ll get the same error people often add cathartic messages to accompany the NUMBER like spammers must die but this might not be the best way to go you are telling the spammers that you are on to them this may cause them to try other methods to get around your blocks is it perhaps better to blackhole the mail that is act like everything is ok during the smtp transaction but then just drop the mail into the bitbucket this is generally how spamassassin works since almost everyone uses it after the smtp transaction has completed successfully spammer thinks everything is going fine and has no reason to try new methods then there is a third possibility instead of returning a NUMBER code indicating you re on to the spammer fake a NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER response which is saying mailbox does not exist this would be in the hopes that some spammers out there actually remove names reported as non existent from their lists i know a slim hope but even if only a few do it can lower the incidence so what are the arguments for each do spammers even look at _any_ of the bounce messages they get the volume of bounces must be huge personally i m starting to think blackholes are the way to go but sending back that spammer die die die or stock access dee nied my ephasis added message can be pretty satisfying crist j clark cjclark URL cjclark URL URL cjc URL in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 robert strickler said looks like we need an identity stamp in the x spam headers so that sa only accepts headers from authorized sources well spamassassin will just ignore any old x spam whatever headers it finds so that cannot be used to get around the filter j in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER stephane lentz wrote i faced a similar problem with the freebsd when trying to install spamassassin through the ports on my fresh freebsd NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i had to define perlNUMBERlib with some given order of directories so that the latest file spec module get used good to hear it s not just me mind telling me how you set perlNUMBERlib specificly i ve tried a few things setenv in the shell as well as perlNUMBERlib inside the URL even on the perl command line with no success thanks david david raistrick drais URL URL in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
i successfully installed spamassassin razor to run system wide on my debian woody server briefly i apt get installed spamassassin razor and libmilter dev downloaded spamass milter NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tar gz from URL ungzipped and untarred the file into etc mail followed the directions in etc mail spamass milter NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER readme to compile the milter install the rc scripts and edit and update URL changed etc default spamassassin to set spamassassin to daemon mode verified that spamassassin was running by tailing var log mail log woody stable has sa NUMBER NUMBER woody unstable has sa NUMBER NUMBER i m running the stable source live right now and it is working very well if you want unstable change etc apt sources list substituting unstable for stable run apt get update install the unstable versions change etc apt sources list run apt get update quentin krengel krengel technology inc original message from spamassassin talk admin URL mailto spamassassin talk admin URL on behalf of tanniel simonian sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to spamassassin talk URL subject satalk debianized packages for sa NUMBER NUMBER im currently using woody is there a debianized package for sa on woody or at least somewhere i can download from its been soo long that i haven t compiled stuff that im sort of shy to try again tanniel simonian programmer analyst iii ucr libraries URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wed sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER david raistrick wrote on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER stephane lentz wrote i faced a similar problem with the freebsd when trying to install spamassassin through the ports on my fresh freebsd NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i had to define perlNUMBERlib with some given order of directories so that the latest file spec module get used good to hear it s not just me mind telling me how you set perlNUMBERlib specificly i ve tried a few things setenv in the shell as well as perlNUMBERlib inside the URL even on the perl command line with no success presuming your run bash note the directory lists perl e map print _ n inc then set up the shell variable perlNUMBERlib variable and put it in some bashrc for future use export perlNUMBERlib directoryNUMBER directoryNUMBER directoryNUMBER directoryNUMBER then try to install the software perlNUMBERlib is explained perlrun NUMBER do man perlrun for more information regards sl stephane lentz alcanet international internet services in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
so far today i ve found URL and URL in dcc my confidence in dcc is beginning to drop robin lynn frank paradigm omega llc no electrons were harmed in the sending of this message however two neutrons and a proton complained about the noise in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER vince puzzella wrote ever since i set defang_mime NUMBER all spam that contains html has a badly formatted report i think realize it s because the report should be in html is there anyway to get spamassassin to add an html report in cases where it is required defang_mime NUMBER funny i was in the middle of composing the same message when i saw yours it would be nice if it sees a header like content type text html charset iso NUMBER NUMBER and defang_mime is NUMBER it could wrap the report with pre pre for ease of reading and the same sort of problem seems to occur with baseNUMBER encoded messages the report is placed inside of the mime boundary _nextpart_NUMBER_NUMBERbNUMBER_NUMBEReNUMBERaNUMBERb bNUMBEReNUMBER content type text plain charset iso NUMBER NUMBER content transfer encoding baseNUMBER should this not go above probably in it s own mime section to make sure that the attachments don t get destroyed ian ian white email iwhite URL in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am spamassassin talk request URL spamassassin talk URL wrote message NUMBER from vivek khera khera URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to spamassassin talk URL subject re satalk calypso email ratware jm justin mason jm jmason org writes jm now all we need to do is get all the spamassassin users out there to jm upgrade considering that the rules need to adapt to the changing look and feel of spam vs non spam does it make sense to have sa automatically issue a notice when it is say NUMBER months old recommending that the user operator check for updated rules sort of like a nag ware feature but in self defense for the user not the vendor vivek khera ph d khera communications inc internet khera URL rockville md NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER aim vivekkhera y vivek_khera URL better yet would be a built in server check on a periodic basis even daily looking for the existence of an update and if found prompt the system admin to upgrade the server with the ever changing face of spam this would probably be a big benefit to sa users and help keep everyone up to date we have not done this with too many of the apps we sell on URL strictly because of joe average user concerns about spyware and phoning home but in cases where the app needs to access the internet anyhow we have done it with great success and minimal concern by our users joseph burke president ceo infinisource inc jburke infinisource com in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 anyway i m making good progress and my implementation works reasonably well it now seems blindingly clear that we want a tightly integrated implementation of naive bayes spam nonspam classification there are still some things about how to do this right inside sa that i still am figuring out dan this is very good news will this allow for individual spam word file preferences when spamassassin is running on a mailserver for multiple users this would be an outstanding addition if it can be done thanks much for a great project regards eric mings ph d this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
op NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER schreef ellen clary ellen dgi com then there is a third possibility instead of returning a NUMBER code indicating you re on to the spammer fake a NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER response which is saying mailbox does not exist this would be in the hopes that some spammers out there actually remove names reported as non existent from their lists i know a slim hope but even if only a few do it can lower the incidence they don t i can guarantee that quite a few spamtraps nowadays operate by NUMBERnn ing for NUMBER months in the hope of getting legit mailers to remove bouncing addrs from lists then after NUMBER months they just spamtrap all incoming mail to those addrs unfortunately a lot of legit mailers don t bother cleaning their lists either most spammers don t check reply codes at all they just send out as many mails as their system will hold without checking for any confirmation a trick to lower spam reception was dicussed on the postfix mailing list some time ago answer all incoming mail with a NUMBERxx temporary error code when it is offered the first time and accept it the second time apparently most mass emailers don t even try to deliver a second time this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
heh rtfm sorry about that yep that did the trick thanks for the help regards paul fries paul URL original message from spamassassin talk admin URL mailto spamassassin talk admin URL on behalf of vince puzzella sent thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to paul fries spamassassin talk URL subject re satalk NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamd spamc problem defang_mime NUMBER original message from paul fries mailto paul URL sent thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to spamassassin talk URL subject satalk NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamd spamc problem i noticed that after upgrading to NUMBER NUMBER or NUMBER NUMBER from NUMBER NUMBER the f option was removed from spamd this is fine because all of the html format mail seems to arrive properly however messages that get tagged as spam arrive as just html source is there any way around this i would like all html rtf messages to retain their formatting even if they are flagged as spam i would accomplish this on NUMBER NUMBER by using the f NUMBER flag when starting spamd thanks regards paul fries paul URL cwie llc this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
i installed spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER with razor vNUMBER the other day and it has been working great i decided to add pyzor last night and i got that installed successfully i think no errors i am using spamd and i see where it periodically spawns off a pyzor process however nothing has been detected as spam by pyzor under spamassassin it has been running for almost half a day now on a NUMBER NUMBER user mail server so to me the odds of something being caught by it should be high i run spamd as follows spamd d h and all my users home directories have a pyzor directory with the server listed under it i setup a test procmail recipe that just invokes pyzor check and not spamc to see if in fact pyzor alone catches any spam i just set this up so no results yet here is what i get when i check connectivity to the pyzor server pyzor d ping sending user anonymous ntime NUMBER nsig NUMBERcNUMBERacNUMBERfNUMBERbNUMBERbNUMBERcdNUMBEReNUMBERdffcNUMBEReaf n nop ping nthread NUMBER npv NUMBER NUMBER n n received thread NUMBER ncode NUMBER ndiag ok npv NUMBER NUMBER n n NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ok any help examples would be appreciated thanks btw keep up the great work spamassassin team nick outgoing mail is certified virus free checked by avg anti virus system http www grisoft com version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER virus database NUMBER release date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER carlo URL wrote so it seems to me that they do clean up their lists but only when a spam fails to deliver or can t they detect that what do spammers do with email addresses in their database that are undeliverable for a few years do they still continue to spam them well here s my semi coherent rant for the moment i have NUMBER spamtraps on my machine you can multiply that by each domain if you really want to the vast majority all but say NUMBER have never ever existed yet spammers would semi continuously connect try to deliver mail to NUMBER of them disconnect connect again try delivering to NUMBER more over and over they kept getting user unknown until i got around to making them spamtraps so my evidence would suggest that it depends who you re dealing with if your business is to sell address lists to people who would then spam it s in your best interest to never clean your list therefore you can say NUMBER million email addresses and not technically be lying even if the majority of them don t work if you re a spammer you d want to know who doesn t actually exist but then again you don t really care you probably want to relay through someone so it s harder to trace you if you could you d send to every email address available you don t want to setup a valid bounce address because again it s easy to trace you so i would say this if you technically spam people but actually think you re running a legit service you probably really do have a way of opting out even though the user didn t opt in and you probably don t relay and you probably pay attention to bounces everyone else doesn t really care that s my view anyway randomly generated tagline now you can do that thing with your hands it s ok prof farr ,0
 original message from carlo URL mailto carlo URL sent NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to spamassassin talk URL subject satalk getting yourself removed from spam lists i get the feeling that the spammers never remove emails from their lists correct on the other hand that doesn t make sense wouldn t they get worried about their millions of spams being wasted don t they want some prove that they indeed reach people somehow no they only have to prove that they send several million emails to potential clients to get their money i don t think they even care much about bounces they re con artists why should they care about proving they actually reached people so it seems to me that they do clean up their lists but only when a spam fails to deliver or can t they detect that most of the time the bounce goes to some poor soul who has nothing to do with the spammer what do spammers do with email addresses in their database that are undeliverable for a few years do they still continue to spam them yes tony this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER the voices made carlo URL write what do spammers do with email addresses in their database that are undeliverable for a few years do they still continue to spam them yes tony per scientiam ad libertatem through knowledge towards freedom genom kunskap mot frihet c NUMBER NUMBER tony URL perl e print _ _ for sort _ lynx dump URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 this may be a little off topic but thought people here would have a better response to this elsewhere i have setup two mx records mail and bmail for my mail server the one i gave a NUMBER bmail the other a NUMBER mail bmail NUMBER i gave a NUMBER because i want all mail to go through this server to be scanned for spam and viruses and then relayed to the mail NUMBER server for delivery as i understand it dns a records are used in a rotating fashion for load balancing but dns mx records are used in order or prority meaning the NUMBER before the NUMBER and only NUMBER if the NUMBER isn t available but only some of the mail is actually being scanned which leads me to believe that not all of the mail is actually hitting that box and the NUMBER never goes down why have i got something confused here thanks v end of forwarded message this message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by mailscanner at URL and is believed to be clean this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on fri sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER vernon wrote as i understand it dns a records are used in a rotating fashion for load balancing but dns mx records are used in order or prority meaning the NUMBER before the NUMBER and only NUMBER if the NUMBER isn t available that s the theory yes but only some of the mail is actually being scanned which leads me to believe that not all of the mail is actually hitting that box and the NUMBER never goes down why have i got something confused here no but either due to some technical glitch or downright just wanting to do so people send to the secondary it s a semi usual spammer trick actually to bypass the main server and send directly to a secondary since it will either have less filtering or be trusted or mx records in the mail world are all explained in rfc NUMBER section NUMBER multiple mx records contain a preference indication that must be used in sorting see below lower numbers are more preferred than higher ones if there are multiple destinations with the same preference and there is no clear reason to favor one e g by recognition of an easily reached address then the sender smtp must randomize them to spread the load across multiple mail exchangers for a specific organization if it determines that it should relay the message without rewriting the address it must sort the mx records to determine candidates for delivery the records are first ordered by preference with the lowest numbered records being most preferred the relay host must then inspect the list for any of the names or addresses by which it might be known in mail transactions if a matching record is found all records at that preference level and higher numbered ones must be discarded from consideration if there are no records left at that point it is an error condition and the message must be returned as undeliverable if records do remain they should be tried best preference first as described above randomly generated tagline now let s say i like sheep and now let s say i take the sheep to a christmas party bob golub ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER jeremy kusnetz wrote when running spamc c sample spam txt i get NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which looks correct but doing an echo returns a NUMBER instead of NUMBER can you submit this to bugzilla it definately is a bug i mean i do a packet trace and here s what i get with one of my spams the request NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBERe NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBER NUMBERf NUMBER NUMBERe check spamc NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERc NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER user felicit NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBERa NUMBER NUMBERf NUMBERe NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERe NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBERc NUMBER NUMBERe NUMBER NUMBER y content lengt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBERa NUMBERd NUMBERa h NUMBER the spam removed for brevity the response NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBERf NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBER NUMBERf NUMBER NUMBERe NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamd NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ex NUMBER NUMBERf NUMBERf NUMBERb NUMBERd NUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERc NUMBER NUMBER _ok spam false NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERe NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERf NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERe NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBERa NUMBERd NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so spamd is definately returning false incorrectly randomly generated tagline pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht si ,0
on fri NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER vernon wrote but only some of the mail is actually being scanned which leads me to believe that not all of the mail is actually hitting that box and the NUMBER never goes down why have i got something confused here sending mail directly to a backup mail server in the hopes that it has less stringent spam scanning is a common spammer trick jason kohles jkohles URL senior engineer red hat professional consulting this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on sat sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER justin mason wrote it s probably that razor needs to be razor register d for each user try creating a world writable home dir for razor and dcc et al to store their files in that way spamd will share the razor server info etc between all users uh no you don t want to make it world writable world readable then use spamd h path to world writeable dir just remember that the razor and whatever dcc uses needs to be world readable as well the solution is then to make a world writable log file for at least razor i like symlinking dev null myself imo this is more efficient than using spamd h which will use each user s own home dir for this data but it s a matter of opinion efficient probably depends on the user base but it also takes the control away from the user which may or may not be a good thing depending again on the user base randomly generated tagline what s funny i d like to know send me some e mail prof farr ,0
 i have searched the list but did not find any info on this how do i setup multiple spamd machines so that spamc load balances or anything similar duane this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER tony l svanstrom mused on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER the voices made carlo URL write what do spammers do with email addresses in their database that are undeliverable for a few years do they still continue to spam them yes so much so that i get thousands of bounces per day on this machine aimed at what are plainly message ids let s have a round of applause for those daring young men and their flying spellcheckers meg worley this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
i m getting these messages and i m not sure what they mean can anyone clear this up for me thanks sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux mailscanner NUMBER rbl check ordb rbl timed out and was killed consecutive failure NUMBER of NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux mailscanner NUMBER spamassassin timed out and was killed this message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by mailscanner at URL and is believed to be clean this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER the voices made marc perkel write right now we have one spam status flag indicating that a message is or is not spam the idea being that the end user perhaps make a rule that would move the spam flagged messages into a spam folder and thus gain some time by presorting messages into to piles if you people don t know enough to filter on the actual score they ve got the stars which will give them more than enough levers if they want it tony per scientiam ad libertatem through knowledge towards freedom genom kunskap mot frihet c NUMBER NUMBER tony URL perl e print _ _ for sort _ lynx dump URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER vernon webb wrote i m getting these messages and i m not sure what they mean can anyone clear this up for me thanks sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux mailscanner NUMBER rbl check ordb rbl timed out and was killed consecutive failure NUMBER of NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER linux mailscanner NUMBER spamassassin timed out and was killed your running mailscanner and the timeout used got to check ordb rbl is too low and your timing out mailscanner will count up to seven timeouts and then automatically disable these checks until it restarts itself within NUMBER hours gerry the lyfe so short the craft so long to learne chaucer this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
tony l svanstrom wrote on sun NUMBER sep NUMBER the voices made marc perkel write right now we have one spam status flag indicating that a message is or is not spam the idea being that the end user perhaps make a rule that would move the spam flagged messages into a spam folder and thus gain some time by presorting messages into to piles if you people don t know enough to filter on the actual score they ve got the stars which will give them more than enough levers if they want it tony sure we developers know that but what i m talking about is making it easier for end users to figure out this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
has anyone noticed a drop in razor check performance over the past week i disabled the razorchecks in spamassassin and my queues start to clean out again this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
can anybody point me to a project faq similar to this NUMBER perl script fetches pop mail from a distant server NUMBER mail is fed to sa running as a standalone module in my user account NUMBER sa spits out results back to perl script NUMBER script deletes offending mail i don t have root access i don t need a mta NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER chris fortune fortune s web computer services nelson bc canada vNUMBERl NUMBERwNUMBER ph NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER email cfortune URL website URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sponsored by amd your access to the experts on hammer technology open source linux developers register now for the amd developer symposium code exNUMBER URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
jm URL justin mason writes date_in_past_NUMBER_NUMBER spam_phrase_NUMBER_NUMBER spam_phrase_NUMBER_NUMBER spam_phrase_NUMBER_NUMBER spam_phrase_NUMBER_NUMBER spam_phrase_NUMBER_NUMBER i was thinking of just removing those particular rules but keeping the other entries in the range since they re proving too noisy to be effective but i d be willing to keep those ones in all the same what do you think matt craig thoughts i think i could handle commenting out the lowest spam_phrase_xx_yy scores if the ga could handle this sort of thing so they d automatically be zeroed i d feel better since the ranges could change next time the phrase list is regenerated or the algorithm tweaked i think we need to understand why date_in_past_NUMBER_NUMBER is so low before we remove it the two rules on either side perform quite well and here are the rules that seem like they should be better or should be recoverable from_missing gappy_text invalid_msgid mime_null_block subj_missing well i don t like subj_missing i reckon there s a world of mails from cron jobs e g which hit it okay drop subj_missing but yes the others for sure should be recoverable and i m sure there s more probably a few those seemed like the best prospects to me btw do you agree with the proposed methodology ie remove the rules and bugzilla each one i only want a bugzilla ticket for each one if people are okay with quick wontfix closes on the ones deemed unworthy of recovery if you could put the stats for each rule in the ticket somehow should be automatable with email at the very least it would help dan ,0
justin mason jm jmason org writes hmm also i think i ve found some cases where it s hitting on fetchmail received hdrs that s bad so it could be fixed fetchmail adds received headers that seems wrong i ll open a bug to investigate can you attach some examples yeah will do somehow pity the bugzilla doesn t allow email submissions agreed at least you can add information with email dan ,0
on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER justin mason wrote simon matthews said procmail NUMBER NUMBER is reliable as long as none of the recipies fails i was hoping to resolve the triplets txt problem and thus avoid the procmail rom problem i doubt it s related actually the triplets stuff is in a totally unrelated area of code the procmail bug happens when the filter program does something that procmail doesn t expect exactly what that something is hasn t been confirmed by anyone on the procmail list it might be exiting with a nonzero status or it might be producing output on the standard error or it might be something else entirely so simon is attempting to get sa to run flawlessly because then it can t tickle the procmail bug this isn t a fix it s a band aid but because he apparently doesn t have the option of installing a newer procmail ,0
jm URL justin mason writes folks who ve been hacking on the dnsbls would it be worthwhile commenting this in head seeing as it only gets NUMBER anyway sounds like the a broken server and b low hitrate combine to make it not so useful imo no in my opinion it s purely a bug in sa or the libraries we use which is the same thing that we don t handle outages of network services better the rule is useful and it does help reduce spam we should keep it i have a feeling the dnsbl rules will cluster a bit more heavily around the NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER range once we start using the new ga on them also NUMBER NUMBER was a slightly conservative number since i didn t have real time data i typically used the lower or median number of different periods most recent month two months six months depending on the trend of the period data better performance for recent messages favor recent scores worse performance for recent messages favor lowest scores never pick the highest number unless the rule was very accurate and the highest number was for the most recent data dan ,0
 gary funck said i thought the perllocal pod line looked odd is it normal to write documentation into the root directory g is there some make parameter o r environment variable that should ve been set when i ran make an issue for razor folks i think it seems that by registering that i avoided the error path noted in my previo us e mail where dns net resolver was called but does not exist in my perl hierarchy here s the new output from sa ans razorNUMBER looks good question if we use spamassassin on a per user basis invoked from procmailrc will each user have to run razor admin register first is there way to register with razor just once per system if you use spamd with the h option and provide a shared directory for the razor config files to be written to rtfm for more details j ,0
 matt kettler said ok first the important stuff happy birthday justin a lil late but oh well cheers a NUMBER miss ratio on the spam corpus at NUMBER NUMBER seems awfully high although that nice low fp percentage is quite nice as is the narrow in of average fp fn scores compared to NUMBER NUMBER as dan said it s a hard corpus made harder without the spamtrap data also and this is an important point those measurements can t be directly compared because i changed the methodology in NUMBER NUMBER the scores were evolved on the entire corpus then evaluated using that corpus ie there was no blind testing and the scores could overfit and still provide good statistics in NUMBER NUMBER they re evaluated blind on a totally unseen set of messages so those figures would be a lot more accurate for real world use j ,0
hi i upgraded to NUMBER NUMBER now NUMBER NUMBER last week and the messages which are definitely in the dcc database aren t being marked as such by spamassassin when connected to via spamc interestingly it is detected when running spamassassin t sample spam txt using the same userid incidentally is this a known feature of spamc under NUMBER NUMBERx or is there anything obvious that i am not implementing correctly note that as i implied above this used to work under NUMBER NUMBERx of spamassassin and spamd spamc regards ray gardener sheffield hallam university uk ,0
 v vernon vernon bNUMBERunow com writes v some of my security violations and unusual system events are being v tagged as spam by spamassassin how do i get sa to ignore these messages whitelists you really have to white list any message source that discusses or is used to report spam else the reports will be marked as spam given that they have the spam indicators in them usually this is the only whitelisting i use this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 yes i think some others mgm have spamtrap data in there too my corpus is about NUMBER spamtrap spam at any given time let me know if i should leave that out next time i do keep it separate my spamtraps are pretty clean of viruses and bounce messages most of the time michael moncur mgm at URL URL lack of money is no obstacle lack of an idea is an obstacle ken hakuta ,0
 would someone please enlighten me on dependencies pre requisites for installation in freebsd the official documentation isn t particularly explicit about this stuff eg procmail is mentioned but without saying whether or not its essential no info provided on whether gnumake is required or if standard bsd make is ok i thought we were quite good about it in the readme file procmail is essential if you re using a spamassassin for local delivery b not using a milter and c not using a mail audit script instead so probably yes bsd make is ok if perl generally uses it to build perl modules spamassassin is just anotehr perl module in that respect back to this stuff again searched high low but definitely nothing on this system even vaguely resembling a readme file for spamassassin i have procmail installed but having major problems comprehending the setup would appreciate info on any simple english howto ,0
 michael moncur said my corpus is about NUMBER spamtrap spam at any given time let me know if i should leave that out next time i do keep it separate my spamtraps are pretty clean of viruses and bounce messages most of the time imo spamtrap data that s well cleaned and monitored is fine to my mind there s NUMBER types of spamtraps NUMBER old user addresses recycled into spamtraps when the user closes the account NUMBER old user addresses recycled into spamtraps several months after the user closes the account scanned for newsletters unsubscribed from them etc NUMBER real spamtrap addresses to trap website crawlers the latter NUMBER are the most effective but NUMBER is a real pita it takes lots of maintainance to avoid ham getting in there some of my spamtrap data had a few NUMBER s contributed by isps and i hadn t spent enough time sifting for legit mail that was slipping through so i felt better leaving them out for this run apart from what i d hand cleaned j ,0
 URL jm URL changed what removed added status assigned resolved resolution fixed additional comments from jm URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ok this should now be considered fixed i should think domain name URL name server URL name server URL name server URL name server URL name server URL etc you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL jm URL changed what removed added status new resolved resolution invalid additional comments from jm URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER hi david i m afraid this bug tracking system is only used for the open source spamassassin the unix one you need to talk to somebody at URL instead you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from jm URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i d prefer to wait and see if spammers do anything about it my guess is they will not as it d mean modifying their spamware to send NUMBER msg per recipient i vote wontfix as a result you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from jm URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dan btw is there any code from this that we can get checked in i d love to mess around with it a bit you are receiving this mail because you are on the cc list for the bug or are watching someone who is this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from easmith URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i like this idea but from my reading part of my dissertation research on gas or in this case more precisely evolutionary programming since the parameters are non binary and the major operator is mutation not crossover you do need to keep in mind that the more interactions there are between different variables the better tweaked the ga ea will need to be especially to avoid local optima which may have been the problem with the suspiciously high anti ratware user_agent scores from past results what s needed are one or more of the below a determine mutational parameters by adapted scores themselves with variation on a per original score basis ideally allow for having correlated mutations in other words have a mechanism in place for trying out changes to a bunch of scores at once with them all moving about the same amount albeit possibly in different directions one means to do this is found in the evolutionary strategies of schwefel b adapt the probability of a mutation taking place depending on how well previous mutation tries have done if more than about a fifth of the new individuals are doing about as well as or better than the parental generation then mutate more parameters if less than a fifth of them are doing about as well as or better than the parental generation then mutate less parameters allen you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 mike bostock said received from trackingNUMBER URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER by URL postfix with esmtp id NUMBERedNUMBER for mike mydomain co uk sun NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt x mailer roving constant contact NUMBER NUMBER patchNUMBERc pNUMBERc_schedenhancement_NUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER http www constantcontact com is worthy of attention and a rule if you go to their web site it would appear that they are in the business of email mass marketing unfortunately their mailing to me got through spamassassin interesting i haven t seen anything from these guys in about a year but looking at your hdr they re still doing it ok come up with an x mailer rule that hits your mails and we ll put it in testing j this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 no i was just a little confused because i m running procmail on a gateway and sits between the external sendmail box and internal exchange bridgehead server so there isn t any delivery to the local system the only email it gets is inbound at the moment and we re looking to get rid of complication and go back to two boxes i did a test which looked like you guys are right about procmail but testing is very limited due to the config i currently have it s just confusing when set up as a gateway jason original message from stephane lentz mailto stephane lentz ansf alcatel fr sent monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to spamassassin talk URL subject re satalk separate inbound and outbound on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER jason qualkenbush wrote is there is way to separate inbound and outbound email so that i only check for spam on inbound mail and ignore the outbound i m using sendmail and running procmail on the gateway to call spamassassin i know it more of a sendmail question but my google searches have only turned up people trying to log all inbound and outbound email using procmail spamassassin doesn t get called for outgoing email messages sent to other machines procmail local delivery agent inbound traffic to local machine sl stephane lentz alcanet international internet services this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
this is just an semi educated guess if i m wrong someone please correct me spamd setuid s to the user running spamc since you re calling spamc from a global procmailrc file it s being run as root most likely if called as root spamd won t open user_prefs files from the spamc man page u username this argument has been semi obsoleted to have spamd use per user config files run spamc as the user whose config files spamd should load if you re running spamc as some other user though eg root mail nobody cyrus etc then you can still use this flag the solution is to set dropprivs yes in etc procmailrc just before running spamc from the procmailrc man page dropprivs if set to yes procmail will drop all privileges it might have had suid or sgid this is only useful if you want to guarantee that the bottom half of the etc procmailrc file is executed on behalf of the recipient i hope that helps and i also hope it s right st original message from spamassassin talk admin URL mailto spamassassin talk admin URL on behalf of cheryl l southard sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to spamassassin talk URL subject satalk user_prefs ignored hi all i am running spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER with procmail as my local delivery agent with sendmail i use spamc spamd so that it runs site wide from etc procmailrc spamd is run as root with the flags d a c and spamc isn t run with any flags when i was testing the program i deployed spamc from my personal procmailrc file my spamassassin user_prefs file was read each time i can see this because i have a non default required_hits value which gets reported in every e mail on the x spam status line now that i run spamc from the global etc procmailrc file my spamassassin user_prefs file is no longer being read or processed from e mails from outside computers the required_hits value gets set back to the one in etc mail spamassassin local cf however if i send local e mail my user_prefs file is read and processed correctly does anyone know how to fix this problem if this is a spamassassin or procmail bug thanks cheryl cheryl southard cld URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
jm URL justin mason writes except for NUMBER thing defanged mime messages that s a big problem but if you didn t just remove the headers and instead reverted back to the x spam prev versions it d more or less work btw fixed the downloads page check now un defangs mime it was screwing up some of my mass check results where sa markup was present yes if there ever was a warning about sa markup in mass check it never worked for me dan ,0
i just picked up razor sdk NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER agents from the the razor site i am using suse NUMBER NUMBER intalled sdk with no problems all tests passed when i try to make the NUMBER NUMBER agents i get all kinds of errors in particuliar it says the net dns is missing but it seems to be there the sdk test passes it any help would be appreciated doug this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm daniel quinlan wrote allen smith easmith beatrice rutgers edu writes well i have been doing a bit of fiddling with the ga i don t have a _large_ corpus practically available to me or processable within reasonable processor time i can justify the ga fiddling part as being part of my research but not the mail processing so in order to test out my changes someone needs to send me a copy of the tmp scores h and tmp tests h that get generated prior to the ga going into action why not start with mass check corpus results it s much easier to get those ah as in getting a directory listing of the corpus server and doing some downloads ok done and you can create your own tmp scores h and tmp tests h good point will report back on my results allen allen smith URL september NUMBER NUMBER a day that shall live in infamy ii they that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety benjamin franklin ,0
unable to find user matt_relay sbcglobal net please make sure the address is correct and resend your mail ,0
 spamtalk said probably better than the spam phrases approach would be the database approach as currently used for white black listing any way to tie that to an xml retrieval from a list of central repositories does mysql do replication a properly done xml would let us eyeball the list as well as use it to keep the database up to date another idea could we synthesize an rbl so that URL becomes URL for a reverse lookup it is going to get tricky how to specify a randomized intermediate directory a good plan needs an implementation though URL hmm seems down to me basically it s a plan to store hash sums of urls phone numbers found in spam in a dnsbl for apps like spamassassin to look up a little like spamcop s spamvertized url list j this URL email is sponsored by dedicated servers only NUMBER linux or freebsd free setup fast network get your own server today at URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
on sun sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER justin mason wrote i seem to be getting a lot of spam relayed via these guys recently can others confirm this if it s the case i ll come up with a forged hostname test for it i do get some from them typically some URL host grep c URL sort rn spammers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spammers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spammers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spammers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spammers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spammers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER definitely increasing per month percentage wise NUMBER NUMBER has NUMBER spams in it so NUMBER NUMBER is about NUMBER NUMBER last month was NUMBER NUMBER randomly generated tagline i don t believe i ve ever cuddled my elses larry wall in NUMBER iaaNUMBER wall org ,0
jm URL justin mason writes yes NUMBER of the entire set for training and NUMBER for evaluation once you ve settled on the final method for any one release why not use NUMBER of the data for a final run dan ,0
justin mason wrote interestingly some of these seem apparently to be encrypted versions of the recipient email address to see this rotNUMBER yr address and grep your spam archive there ll be at least NUMBER hit theo van dinter felicity kluge net writes hmmm i m surprised at these results especially since i should be seeing some false positives not a lot of matches though still worthwhile NUMBER NUMBER is not that bad my results overall spam nonspam s o rank score name NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all messages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all messages as NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_rotNUMBER_email_NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_rotNUMBER_email_NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_rotNUMBER_email the interesting thing is that these hits all seem to be rotNUMBER versions of the to address if we ever start getting fps or if anyone is worried we could make it an eval test for rotNUMBER of the to address turning non word characters into characters in the regular expression at the same time it might be worth testing for username in html comments i found some quinlan types in html comments but i haven t seen enough hits so far to bother however i did add a really good test for email addresses in comments dan ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin lib mail in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER lib mail modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER URL log message fixed bug NUMBER r and w were not respecting auto_whitelist_path index URL rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin lib mail URL v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER non public methods item f init use_user_prefs read and parse the current configuration c use_user_prefs can be c NUMBER do not read user preferences or c NUMBER do cut sub init my self use_user_pref _ NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER todo open dns cache etc if necessary non public methods sub read_cf my self path desc _ this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER spamassassin raw log message fixed bug NUMBER r and w were not respecting auto_whitelist_path index spamassassin raw rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin spamassassin raw v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamassassin raw NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamassassin raw NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if warn if doing_whitelist_operation read the config spamtest init NUMBER if opt add to whitelist spamtest add_all_addresses_to_whitelist mail elsif opt remove from whitelist this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin t in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER t modified files tag bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER db_based_whitelist t db_based_whitelist_ips t log message fixed bug NUMBER r and w were not respecting auto_whitelist_path index db_based_whitelist t rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin t db_based_whitelist t v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER db_based_whitelist t NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER db_based_whitelist t NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER use lib use lib t use satest sa_t_init db_based_whitelist use test begin plan tests NUMBER use test begin plan tests NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER patterns is_nonspam_patterns scr_test_args m mail spamassassin dbbasedaddrlist sarun remove addr from whitelist whitelist_test URL patterns_run_cb ok sarun remove addr from whitelist whitelist_test URL patterns_run_cb NUMBER times to get into the whitelist sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb now check ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok_all_patterns patterns is_spam_patterns sarun l a t data spam NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data spam NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok_all_patterns index db_based_whitelist_ips t rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin t db_based_whitelist_ips t v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER db_based_whitelist_ips t NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER db_based_whitelist_ips t NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER use lib use lib t use satest sa_t_init db_based_whitelist_ips use test begin plan tests NUMBER use test begin plan tests NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER patterns is_nonspam_patterns sarun remove addr from whitelist whitelist_test URL patterns_run_cb ok sarun remove addr from whitelist whitelist_test URL patterns_run_cb NUMBER times to get into the whitelist sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb now check ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok_all_patterns patterns is_spam_patterns sarun l a t data spam NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data spam NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok_all_patterns this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER modified files spamassassin raw log message fixed bug NUMBER r and w were not respecting auto_whitelist_path index spamassassin raw rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin spamassassin raw v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER spamassassin raw NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spamassassin raw NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if warn if doing_whitelist_operation read the config spamtest init NUMBER if opt add to whitelist spamtest add_all_addresses_to_whitelist mail elsif opt remove from whitelist this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin rules in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER rules modified files NUMBER_scores cf NUMBER_whitelist cf log message fixed bug NUMBER r and w were not respecting auto_whitelist_path index NUMBER_scores cf rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin rules NUMBER_scores cf v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER_scores cf NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER_scores cf NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER score porn_galleries NUMBER NUMBER score ratware_lc_outlook NUMBER NUMBER score short_received_line NUMBER NUMBER score safeguard_notice NUMBER NUMBER score safeguard_notice NUMBER NUMBER score mailman_confirm NUMBER NUMBER score significant NUMBER NUMBER score ratware_diffond NUMBER NUMBER index NUMBER_whitelist cf rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin rules NUMBER_whitelist cf v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER_whitelist cf NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER_whitelist cf NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER friends re united popular uk old school network whitelist_from_rcvd URL URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
update of cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin t in directory usw pr cvsNUMBER tmp cvs servNUMBER t modified files db_based_whitelist t db_based_whitelist_ips t log message fixed bug NUMBER r and w were not respecting auto_whitelist_path index db_based_whitelist t rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin t db_based_whitelist t v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER db_based_whitelist t NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER db_based_whitelist t NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER use lib use lib t use satest sa_t_init db_based_whitelist use test begin plan tests NUMBER use test begin plan tests NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER patterns is_nonspam_patterns scr_test_args m mail spamassassin dbbasedaddrlist sarun remove addr from whitelist whitelist_test URL patterns_run_cb ok sarun remove addr from whitelist whitelist_test URL patterns_run_cb NUMBER times to get into the whitelist sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb now check ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok_all_patterns patterns is_spam_patterns sarun l a t data spam NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data spam NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok_all_patterns index db_based_whitelist_ips t rcs file cvsroot spamassassin spamassassin t db_based_whitelist_ips t v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER diff b w u d rNUMBER NUMBER rNUMBER NUMBER db_based_whitelist_ips t NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER db_based_whitelist_ips t NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER use lib use lib t use satest sa_t_init db_based_whitelist_ips use test begin plan tests NUMBER use test begin plan tests NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER patterns is_nonspam_patterns sarun remove addr from whitelist whitelist_test URL patterns_run_cb ok sarun remove addr from whitelist whitelist_test URL patterns_run_cb NUMBER times to get into the whitelist sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb now check ok sarun l a t data nice NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok_all_patterns patterns is_spam_patterns sarun l a t data spam NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok sarun l a t data spam NUMBER patterns_run_cb ok_all_patterns this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin commits mailing list spamassassin commits URL URL ,0
 malte s stretz said NUMBER is fixed but what about NUMBER add a notice about irix and m to the docs NUMBER cygwin s exe_ext NUMBER a cosmetic but rather disturbing one all now fixed NUMBER to_malformed borken wontfix NUMBER packaging related eh will leave this for NUMBER NUMBER ok if there s nothing moderately serious shown up tonight i ll release it tomorrow am gmt j this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 eh any reason why wasn t causing any trouble for me and seems like a good idea because every time someone submitted a bug they d get a response saying message is held for moderator because of implicit message destination or something like that it annoyed users it annoyed me and justin you never actually got around to accepting the messages duncan findlay this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL felicity URL changed what removed added status new resolved resolution fixed additional comments from felicity URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER hmmm my last message doesn t seem to have made it into bugzilla yet i ve committed a patch to fix this problem in both head and bNUMBER_NUMBER_NUMBER the last message explains what the problem was and what the patch does to fix it you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL jm URL changed what removed added status new assigned additional comments from jm URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER use of config is gradually being removed thankfully i don t want to see any of that stuff in there if it acn be avoided as different perl versions jsut vary so much in that stuff NUMBER perl has no concept of where the rules could be unless they re in the perl libdir usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER x x foo perl does not know about the existence of usr share or etc used to use usr lib perlNUMBER for storing rules and it was actually much worse than it is now so we need an out of band way to tell sa where to find this stuff that s the problem NUMBER try perl URL dev null to allow bots to build it i think i might be missing some details of what you re peeved about though could you elaborate specifically you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from spamassassin contrib URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ve thought about this and pm_filter needs to die i ve now tried multiple ways to make it just transparently work on NUMBER NUMBER and failed if anyone has any bright ideas please jump in you see anyone upgrading from the cpan shell will get a failure on the line use extutils makemaker NUMBER NUMBER quite some modules from cpan do have a line like this nowadays i think or read so somewhere respectively and the perl error message is very clear extutils makemaker version NUMBER NUMBER required this is only version NUMBER NUMBER at URL line NUMBER because it never gets chance to reach a writemakefile line with a prereq_pm extutils makemaker NUMBER NUMBER option so the cpan shell can t automatically upgrade this module i cannot think of any way around this i could think of a solution we could remove the use line and add the version to prereq_pm after writemakefile we could add the lines require extutils makemaker extutils makemaker version NUMBER NUMBER to do per hand what use extutils makemaker NUMBER NUMBER does automagically perl URL will die with a uncaught exception from user code extutils makemaker version NUMBER NUMBER required this is only version NUMBER NUMBER at URL line NUMBER there but we ve got a makefile but i don t know if cpan will run the make anyway to add insult to injury the pm_filter part gets run during pm_to_blib which would be fine except extutils makemaker doesn t let you write a my pm_to_blib it s non overridable so even though we could potentially copy the NUMBER NUMBER extutils install pm_to_blib code somewhere into the spamassassin codebase i tried that first we can t cause the makefile to call our code we could call the preprocessor on install time that s not a very clean approach but could work we can also overwrite pm_to_blib in the makefile directly per postamble we already have a useless line pm_to_blib spamassassin doc made there adding some commands in this section gives some make warnings makefile NUMBER warning overriding commands for target pm_to_blib makefile NUMBER warning ignoring old commands for target pm_to_blib but does work not a very good solution either so i m strongly against the current use of extutils makemaker NUMBER NUMBER usage if this were an apache project this would be my veto vote and really hope we can find another way the use makemaker error message is imho quite clear so i think it s ok to require the user to do a manual update of extutils makemaker before the sa installation but that s just my opinion i ll ask on makemaker URL for the best solution they should know you are receiving this mail because you are on the cc list for the bug or are watching someone who is this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from spamassassin contrib URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER a solution could be the preprocessor in combination with pm_filter if we get the extutils makemaker versioning stuff right see bug NUMBER you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL spamassassin contrib URL changed what removed added status new resolved resolution wontfix additional comments from spamassassin contrib URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i think it s ok to close this one comment is a valid albeit seldom used rfc NUMBER header you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL spamassassin contrib URL changed what removed added status new resolved resolution wontfix additional comments from spamassassin contrib URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER relieving dan you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL spamassassin contrib URL changed what removed added status new resolved resolution fixed additional comments from spamassassin contrib URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i think invalid_msgid does what this rule was supposed to do you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL summary URL is a scam product spamassassin version unspecified platform other url URL os version other status new severity normal priority pNUMBER component rules assignedto spamassassin devel URL reportedby friedman spamassassin URL the default score for bondedsender certified domains is NUMBER but i do not believe they should be trusted and encourage you to change the default i have been spammed by their customers there is no documentation on their website about how i can complain about this and have their customers financially penalized for sending me unsolicited mail what proof do any of us have that they really even do anything about it their contract is with their customers not with us this is a scam don t trust them you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from rod spamassassin URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ignoring the conspiracy theories can you supply examples of spam which was scored with rcvd_in_bondedsender the only mail i have received which scored this were from URL you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL summary img tag based rules product spamassassin version unspecified platform other os version other status new severity enhancement priority pNUMBER component eval tests assignedto spamassassin devel URL reportedby matt URL inspired by complaints about all image or mostly image spam that s getting by sa i ve cooked up three sets of rules that analyze the use of img tags in html one that looks at the total area of all of the images in the message t_html_image_area one that looks at the total number of images in the message t_html_num_imgs and one that looks at the longest total run of consecutive images t_html_consec_img the total area of all images is rather easy to compute inside of html html_tests if an img tag has both the width and height properties then multiply them together and add the result to the running total overall spam nonspam s o rank score name NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all messages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all messages as NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_image_areaNUMBER spam of all rules with s NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the total number of img tags is really easy to do NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_num_imgsNUMBER spam of all rules with s o NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i figured that spam that is made up of only images is going to only have img tags interspersed with table paragraph and linebreak tags and some whitespace so there would be a lot of img tags with no plain text non whitespace between them so i defined consecutive img tags to be ones with no text between them and looked at the longest run of consecutive imgs within a message this one seems to do pretty good because in my non spam corpus there s only a handful of messages with img runs larger than two NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_html_consec_imgsNUMBER spam of all rules with s o NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER next i m going to see if there s any meta rules i can make that will reduce the fp rate for low s o rules you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from mgm URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER looks great one note most image only spam actually has some text a few words at the top a disclaimer at the end so keep that in mind the typical image spam that slips through sa seems to have a bit of text one huge image then a bit more you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 URL summary split up from_ends_in_nums product spamassassin version unspecified platform other os version other status new severity enhancement priority pNUMBER component rules assignedto spamassassin devel URL reportedby matt URL the current from_ends_in_nums triggers on any from where the user name ends in two or more digits i think this should be split up into different numbers of trailing digits so that rules with different s o ratios can get different scores so i ve made test rules that look from from names that end with two three four or five digitis and one for six or more digitis i also put in a test rule that looks for froms that end in a single digit just the sake of completeness here is what i got overall spam nonspam s o rank score name NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all messages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all messages as NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_from_ends_in_numsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_from_ends_in_numsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_from_ends_in_numsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_from_ends_in_numsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_from_ends_in_numsNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER t_from_ends_in_numsNUMBER i should note that i get rather bad s o s for from_ends_in_nums probably because so much of my corpus is made up of yahoo groups traffic which seems to have a lot of users that like sticking numbers at the ends of their names here is the normal stats for from_ends_in_nums NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from_ends_in_nums and my stats NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from_ends_in_nums you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
daniel quinlan wrote dq jm URL justin mason writes dq dq but i think rsync is key it s very efficient bandwidth wise and it dq allows you to select which ones you want just as well as wget would dq bandwidth is a much bigger issue for me and some other of the europeans dq involved than it would be for you guys imo it s by far the most dq efficient and scriptable way to do this stuff these days dq dq it must be horrible being a dial up user in NUMBER if we can automate dq rsync submission with good authentication it would be fine with me dq the current rsync method is not sufficiently authenticated though i ll take a look at it i m sure there s got to be some reasonly easy way to have rsync carry itself over ssh and secure access using ssh keys dq i suggest we use the URL server for rsyncing as we do for dq the corpus_submit stuff in a separate subdirectory though then dq i ll take a look at getting a nightly hit frequencies collation system dq going ok i ll take a look at it c ,0
 randy bush said freebsd stable spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER spamasassin r results in razorNUMBER report failed no such file or directory razorNUMBER reporting requires authentication at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin repo URL line NUMBER used to work until upgrade using spamd try the h switch no pipinng the message to spamassassin r from within my mail user agent vm under emacs oops sorry didn t notice the report bit yes you need to register for razorNUMBER razor register or razor admin register if i recall correctly j ,0
in emacs rmail what varieties of different techniques are there for sorting your favorite correspondents from the mix leaving the hundreds of spam commercials a filter for the campus computer system puts subject lines and headers on many of the hundreds of spam commercials with URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 kenneth nerhood said i too am seeing very weird things with NUMBER NUMBER and awl i installed a fresh system and then ran a bunch of test spam through it all from the same user all messages should have scored over NUMBER the awl kept adjusting them down so that after about NUMBER message i had a negative score i m using spamc d that s exactly what is intended the idea is that legit senders who habitually score just NUMBER will eventually get out of awl hell after NUMBER NUMBER messages note that running a single spam through spamassassin a t will eventually whitelist the spammer but that s why the man page tells you not to do it j this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
i don t know how make of you are in the bay area but eff is having a benifit party ast the dna lounge in san francisco tonight wil weaton wesley crussher from star trek tng will fight barney the dinasour come on by if you re not doing anything this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER am justin mason wrote i plan to NUMBER figure out the freqs tonight suggest what tests to drop NUMBER wait for comments NUMBER drop tests that nobody cares about tomorrow NUMBER sed out the dropped tests from the mass check logs this step is unneccesary unless you ve changed the scripts much any test in the logs which aren t in the rules files will just be ignored i think you do seem to have changed the logs to c script and removed the bit where you could specify immutable tests at the top i took a brief glance through the code and couldn t fully make out how it had changed i think we want to be able to specify immutable test scores though in there somewhere or is that now handled by the tflags stuff for the last couple releases any test which occurred infrequently by thumb in the wind subjective criteria i set to have immutable scores as well as a handful of other rules NUMBER kick off the ga btw i ll be away this weekend at linuxbierwanderung so craig you might have to run the ga shouldn t be a problem assuming i can get the darned thing to compile c ,0
 URL spamassassin contrib URL changed what removed added cc spamassassin devel URL assignedto spamassassin spamassassin devel URL contrib URL additional comments from spamassassin contrib URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i m gonna fix this one i think the best solution will be to copy the modified rules to blib and install them from there then the rules files will be changed on build time and not install time too you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee you are on the cc list for the bug or are watching someone who is this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 steve thomas said i created a user honeypot and set up an alias to it then i added a hidden font color same as background color link to that address at the bottom of my html pages the procmailrc file for that user is which will submit the msg to razor then save it locally i set this up about a month ago and haven t received anything other than some viruses sircam on it yet the viruses are rejected at the mta level so they re not being saved reported to razor fwiw i would now recommend doing this using a user with a procmailrc instead of a system alias more secure and easier to filter out crud like bounces virii etc that render a corpus dirty j this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 bob sully said spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER has been tossing my daily logwatch NUMBER NUMBER reports into the spam bucket a recent one generated the folowing hits fixed in cvs i think or at least my logwatches get through fine if it is not fixed in cvs then report it using the correct bug reporting procedure NUMBER open a bugzilla bug URL NUMBER attach a sample mail message as an attachment with all headers intact j this URL email is sponsored by jabber the world s fastest growing real time communications platform don t just im build it in URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 URL additional comments from alan URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i haven t tried NUMBER NUMBER yet because it requires file spec which barfs when spamassassin tries to use it i haven t filed a bug yet because i suspect it s because i m still running NUMBER NUMBER perl because of reported compatibility issues with NUMBER NUMBER and later but i probably will because i think there s too much legacy perl code to put up with major compatibility problems and spamassassin didn t at least in the quickest of looks say it needed a newer one the perl stuff was bad enough but this is all a separate soapbox you are receiving this mail because you are the assignee for the bug or are watching the assignee this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
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david höhn wrote hello have you seen and discussed this article and his approach thank you URL yes see the perl module mail spamtest bayesian on cpan and the thread on sa talk matt this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin devel mailing list spamassassin devel URL URL ,0
 craig hughes said all headers are reproduced in full some address obfuscation has taken place hostnames in some cases have been replaced with URL which should have a valid mx record if i recall correctly in most cases though the headers appear as they were received nope craig balam craig dig URL mx i knew there was something about URL ah well that s probably just as good anyway j this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 please feel free to forward this message to other possibly interested parties some caveats in decending order of concern NUMBER these messages could end up being falsely or incorrectly reported to razor dcc pyzor etc certain rbls too i don t think the results for these distributed tests can be trusted in any way shape or form when running over a public corpus NUMBER these messages could also be submitted more than once to projects like spamassassin that rely on filtering results submission for ga tuning and development NUMBER spammers could adopt elements of the good messages to throw off filters and of course there s always progression in technology by both spammers and non spammers the second problem could be alleviated somewhat by adding a nilsimsa signature or similar to the mass check file the results format used by spamassassin and giving the message files unique names mdNUMBER or sha NUMBER of each file the third problem doesn t really worry me these problems and perhaps others i have not identified are unique to spam filtering compression corpuses and other performance related corpuses have their own set of problems of course in other words i don t think there s any replacement for having multiple independent corpuses finding better ways to distribute testing and collate results seems like a more viable long term solution and i m glad we re working on exactly that for spamassassin if you re going to seriously work on filter development building a corpus of NUMBER NUMBER messages half spam half non spam is not really that much work if you don t get enough spam creating multi technique spamtraps web usenet replying to spam is pretty easy and who doesn t get thousands of non spam every week dan ,0
 trimmed cc list daniel quinlan said NUMBER these messages could end up being falsely or incorrectly reported to razor dcc pyzor etc certain rbls too i don t think the results for these distributed tests can be trusted in any way shape or form when running over a public corpus i ll note that in the readme NUMBER these messages could also be submitted more than once to projects like spamassassin that rely on filtering results submission for ga tuning and development the second problem could be alleviated somewhat by adding a nilsimsa signature or similar to the mass check file the results format used by spamassassin and giving the message files unique names mdNUMBER or sha NUMBER of each file ok maybe rewriting the message ids will help here that should allow us to pick them out i ll do that NUMBER spammers could adopt elements of the good messages to throw off filters and of course there s always progression in technology by both spammers and non spammers the third problem doesn t really worry me nah me neither these problems and perhaps others i have not identified are unique to spam filtering compression corpuses and other performance related corpuses have their own set of problems of course in other words i don t think there s any replacement for having multiple independent corpuses finding better ways to distribute testing and collate results seems like a more viable long term solution and i m glad we re working on exactly that for spamassassin if you re going to seriously work on filter development building a corpus of NUMBER NUMBER messages half spam half non spam is not really that much work if you don t get enough spam creating multi technique spamtraps web usenet replying to spam is pretty easy and who doesn t get thousands of non spam every week yep the primary reason i released this was to provide a good big corpus for academic testing of filter systems it allows results to be compared between filters using a known corpus for spamassassin development everyone has to maintain their own corpus j ,0
 original message from razor users request example sourceforge net to razor users example sourceforge net sent friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject razor users digest vol NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER msgs subject re razor users razor with sendmail date fri NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from rose bobby brose med wayne edu to julian bond julian_bond voidstar com razor users URL if you didn t add it when compile would be one way another would be to grep your URL for the word milter bort paul pbort tmwsystems com wrote if your sendmail has been compiled with milter support you can add NUMBER smrazor easily we ve been using it for a while without problems NUMBER others on the list have mentioned it as well URL is there an easy way to tell if milter is compiled in to see all the options compiled into and version of sendmail try the following line echo z path to sendmail bt dNUMBER sven this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on aug NUMBER bort paul wrote if your sendmail has been compiled with milter support you can add smrazor easily we ve been using it for a while without problems others on the list have mentioned it as well URL does this fork exec a perl interpreter for every incoming mail if so i reckon your mailer is vulerable to a dos attack without too much effort the real question is is there a way to run razor without this overhead even some sort of razord you could talk to over a unix socket would do until i can find one i cannot spare the resources to run razor at all this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
bonjour i m writting a python script in order to use razor with qmail the script is finish but i want to test the result with positive mail spam somebody knows whrere can i find one ps escuse my pooooooor english toorop lorsque que vous avez éliminé l impossible ce qui reste même si c est improbable doit être la vérité URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
bonjour always for my script if i run it manually in console all is ok whether is the user but if i try to implement it in my general script filter running whith qmailq uid NUMBER i ve got NUMBER has exit status and in my mail log can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER my log file is in home user razor razor agent log and have write permission for qmailq user any idea toorop lorsque que vous avez éliminé l impossible ce qui reste même si c est improbable doit être la vérité URL mail scanné par protecmail filter this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i m not sure if this is really a razor problem issue or a sendmail problem here s the scenario my mail server is a NUMBERmhz pc funning freebsd NUMBER NUMBER ordinarily the machine is quite idle it supports my wife s web site with apache server running on it and a few other services jabber etc between the various members of our family we get a fair amount of email coming in mailing lists etc on occasion our dsl based isp dies for a number of hours when we get a reconnection to the internet i get a huge flow of emails coming in which are then filtered via razor as a result i will sometimes see over NUMBER sendmail processes running at the same time after such an occasion the machine is then really slow i noticed that my etc procmailrc file had had no arguments associated with the call to razor check there was something in the log though to make me suspicious that it was possibly not seeing all my razor files so i have just added home etc razor as an argument i haven t had any down time since then so i cannot comment on whether this change has sped up my razor processing a noticable amount this paragraph may be an aside to my real problem the first paragraph above but i thought i should be complete in my description at any rate has anyone else suffered from a backlog of email processing creating lots and lots of sendmail processes is there perhaps a way to limit the number of sendmail processes any ideas would be welcome thanks joe joe berry joe URL aim joe topshot yahoo msgr joetopshot jabber joetopshot URL baltimore md this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
see your etc sendmail cf file there are a number of methods for limiting the number of concurrent sendmail processes either by load average i m sure or concurrency i think i use sendmail anymore i use qmail but i m sure that if you look in the config file you will see what you need regards adam original message from razor users admin URL mailto razor users admin URL on behalf of joe berry sent sunday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to razor users URL subject razor users reducing impact from tons of email i m not sure if this is really a razor problem issue or a sendmail problem here s the scenario my mail server is a NUMBERmhz pc funning freebsd NUMBER NUMBER ordinarily the machine is quite idle it supports my wife s web site with apache server running on it and a few other services jabber etc between the various members of our family we get a fair amount of email coming in mailing lists etc on occasion our dsl based isp dies for a number of hours when we get a reconnection to the internet i get a huge flow of emails coming in which are then filtered via razor as a result i will sometimes see over NUMBER sendmail processes running at the same time after such an occasion the machine is then really slow i noticed that my etc procmailrc file had had no arguments associated with the call to razor check there was something in the log though to make me suspicious that it was possibly not seeing all my razor files so i have just added home etc razor as an argument i haven t had any down time since then so i cannot comment on whether this change has sped up my razor processing a noticable amount this paragraph may be an aside to my real problem the first paragraph above but i thought i should be complete in my description at any rate has anyone else suffered from a backlog of email processing creating lots and lots of sendmail processes is there perhaps a way to limit the number of sendmail processes any ideas would be welcome thanks joe joe berry joe URL aim joe topshot yahoo msgr joetopshot jabber joetopshot URL baltimore md this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on aug NUMBER joe berry wrote very good advice given above yes one more problem solved no one more problem in some software worked around by using tricks in another piece of software the solution is the aggregator this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
the following razor debugging sequence show my mail going from NUMBER bytes to NUMBER bytes after the preproc runs which gives me an exit code that is not NUMBER i included the message below fox razor log no etc razor razor agent conf found skipping razor log no razor agent conf found using defaults aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER bootup logging initiated logdebuglevel NUMBER to stdout aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER computed razorhome etc razor conf ident etc razor identity aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER razor agents vNUMBER NUMBER starting razor check d home etc razor aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER uname a linux URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERmdk NUMBER mon nov NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mst NUMBER iNUMBER unknown aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER reading straight rfcNUMBER mail from aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read NUMBER mail aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER client supported_engines NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER prep_mail done mail NUMBER headers NUMBER mimeNUMBER NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER skipping whitelist file empty etc razor razor whitelist aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from etc razor servers discovery lst aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from etc razor servers nomination lst aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from etc razor servers catalogue lst aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER assigning defaults to URL aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER assigning defaults to URL aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER assigning defaults to URL aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER assigning defaults to URL aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from etc razor server URL conf aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from etc razor server URL conf aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER seconds before closest server discovery aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL is a catalogue server srl NUMBER computed min_cf NUMBER server se NUMBERb aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER computed supported_engines NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER using next closest server URL NUMBER cached info srl NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER subject new freeware download aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER preproc mail NUMBER NUMBER went from NUMBER bytes to NUMBER erasing aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER connecting to URL aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER connection established aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER server greeting sn c srl NUMBER epNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER a l aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL is a catalogue server srl NUMBER computed min_cf NUMBER server se NUMBERb aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER computed supported_engines NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER skipped in check aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER no queries no spam aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER disconnecting from server URL aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER a q aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER razor check finished successfully from bounce html salesNUMBER NUMBER URL mon aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER return path bounce html salesNUMBER NUMBER URL delivered to log URL received qmail NUMBER invoked from network NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER received from unknown helo port NUMBER NUMBER dsNUMBER devices datareturn net NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER by NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with smtp NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mailer lyris web interface date sat NUMBER aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER subject new freeware download jammed eric_koester URL to trollbox dustpuppy mckee com from diskeeper product manager executive software executive URL list unsubscribe mailto leave html salesNUMBER NUMBERa URL reply to executive URL message id lyris NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER eric_koester URL lyr is execsoft com mime version NUMBER NUMBER content type text html charset us ascii spam file envelope recipient eric_koester URL is maximum system performance and reliablilty important to you find out what you are missing new diskeeper lite for windows it s free includes the same advanced defragmentation technology used in diskeeper NUMBER NUMBER is much faster than the previous diskeeper lite and all built in defragmenters now runs on windows nt NUMBER NUMBER xp millions of downloads attest to the popularity of diskeeper lite but it only ran on windows nt NUMBER NUMBER now it s been updated for all windows operating systems from windows NUMBER onward new diskeeper lite is still manual only and cannot be scheduled or run across a network but it is far superior to any built in defragmenter and much faster and it will show you why full version diskeeper is the most recommended automatic defragmenter ever built find out what you are really missing free URL notice we periodically send new product information electronically or survey those individuals who voluntarily give us their e mail address we hope you enjoy receiving this timely information however if you would like to remove yourself from this list please do not reply to this e mail to be removed to unsubscribe send your e mail address in the body of a message along with your name on a separate line to unsubscribe URL NUMBER executive software international inc all rights reserved diskeeper executive software and the executive software logo are either registered trademarks or trademarks of executive software international inc in the united states and or other countries windows and windows nt are registered trademarks of microsoft corporation in the united states and or other countries all other trademarks and brand names are the property of the respective owners html head meta http equiv content type content text html charset windows NUMBER title new freeware download title head body p align center img border NUMBER src URL width NUMBER height NUMBER img border NUMBER src URL width NUMBER height NUMBER p table border NUMBER cellpadding NUMBER cellspacing NUMBER style border collapse collapse bordercolor NUMBER width NUMBER id autonumberNUMBER tr td width NUMBER p align center b font face verdana color ffNUMBER size NUMBER it s free font b td tr table table border NUMBER cellpadding NUMBER cellspacing NUMBER style border collapse collapse bordercolor NUMBER width NUMBER id autonumberNUMBER tr td width NUMBER valign top nbsp nbsp nbsp nbsp nbsp td td width NUMBER valign top p font face times new roman size NUMBER span style font size NUMBERpt img src URL border NUMBER width NUMBER height NUMBER span font td td width NUMBER valign top font face verdana includes the same advanced defragmentation technology used in diskeeper NUMBER NUMBER font td tr tr td width NUMBER valign top nbsp td td width NUMBER valign top font face times new roman size NUMBER span style font size NUMBERpt img src URL border NUMBER width NUMBER height NUMBER span font td td width NUMBER valign top font face verdana much faster than the previous diskeeper lite and all built in defragmenters font td tr tr td width NUMBER valign top nbsp td td width NUMBER valign top font face times new roman size NUMBER span style font size NUMBERpt img src URL border NUMBER width NUMBER height NUMBER span font td td width NUMBER valign top font face verdana now runs on windows nt sup sup NUMBER NUMBER xp font td tr table p font face verdana millions of downloads attest to the popularity of diskeeper lite but it only ran on windows nt NUMBER NUMBER now it s been updated for all windows operating systems from windows NUMBER onward font p p font face verdana new diskeeper lite is still manual only and cannot be scheduled or run across a network but it is far superior to any built in defragmenter and much faster and it will show you why full version diskeeper is the most recommended automatic defragmenter ever built font p p b font face verdana find out what you are i really i missing free font b p p style text align center align center span style font size NUMBERpt font family arial font face arial size NUMBER a href URL img src URL border NUMBER width NUMBER height NUMBER alt download diskeeper lite a font p table border NUMBER cellpadding NUMBER cellspacing NUMBER style border collapse collapse bordercolor NUMBER width NUMBER id autonumberNUMBER tr td width NUMBER span style font family verdana font size NUMBER full version diskeeper available for purchase from font span td tr table div align center center table border NUMBER cellpadding NUMBER cellspacing NUMBER style border collapse collapse bordercolor NUMBER width NUMBER id autonumberNUMBER tr td width NUMBER p align center span style font size NUMBERpt font family arial map name fpmapNUMBER area href URL e NUMBER qu diskeeper pagereq NUMBER alpha alphaNUMBER deptid NUMBER mfgpartno mfgid NUMBER search id NUMBER loc NUMBER search_store NUMBER shape rect coords NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER area href URL eeper imenu so x search x NUMBER search y NUMBER shape rect coords NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER area href URL skeeper sr NUMBER er NUMBER tr NUMBER st bs pp NUMBER sortval price plattype a search x NUMBER sear ch y NUMBER shape rect coords NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER area href URL vsplNUMBERdnxNUMBERnpkicNUMBERkNUMBERyNUMBERwNUMBERjtwfNUMBERtjazvNUMBERneateue NUMBERjauddqskqdNUMBERuNUMBERrg_odiyNUMBERzvdNUMBERzkNUMBERfjbl pfhmNUMBERpNUMBERinryf dqnbNUMBERamrhiamtmlzzsNUMBERjgNUMBERvvrqwwNUMBER_ngNUMBERabuhlaprzhncfbqilcqNUMBERpkqimn hcmhgobkoNUMBERiNUMBERboNUMBERbNUMBERggkNUMBERngyvpiimlnNUMBER shape rect coords NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER area href URL shape rect coords NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER area href URL flag true bccatid NUMBER bccatname software books training bcdeptid NUMBER bcdep tname utilities bcclassid NUMBER bcclassname system maintenance shape rect coords NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER area href URL shape rect coords NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER area href URL shape rect coords NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER map img border NUMBER src URL usemap fpmapNUMBER width NUMBER height NUMBER span td tr table center div hr noshade color eNUMBEReNUMBEReNUMBER font size NUMBER face verdana b font color ffNUMBER notice font b we periodically send new product information electronically or survey those individuals who voluntarily give us their e mail address we hope you enjoy receiving this timely information however if you would like to remove yourself from this list please do not reply to this e mail to be removed font span span style font family verdana font size NUMBER font span span style font size NUMBERpt font family arial p font size NUMBER face verdana you have received this message from esi vp marketing at the e mail address eric_koester URL br to unsubscribe send the above e mail address in the body of a message along with your name on a separate line to a href mailto unsubscribe URL eric_koester URL unsubscribe URL a font p hr noshade color eNUMBEReNUMBEReNUMBER p font size NUMBER face verdana NUMBER executive software international inc all rights reserved diskeeper executive software and the executive software logo are either registered trademarks or trademarks of executive software international inc in the united states and or other countries windows and windows nt are registered trademarks of microsoft corporation in the united states and or other countries all other trademarks and brand names are the property of the respective owners br nbsp font p body html this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
the following was personal correspondence between two people i can t fathom how razor thinks it is spam we are struggling with the decisions related to wether or not to go ahead with our plans to purchase an ocr and forms scanning solution an outside consultant mentioned that he had heard that not to long ago you folks were considering implementing ocr technology to reduce data entry costs and improve efficiency if you could let us know if you did move foreward with any plans in that direction it would be of great help to us may i ask what initialy prompted you to consider ocr did you decide it could help your compamy what software did you go with would you recomend we take a look at it at present we are still planning to continue our research until we decide which ocr system best suits our needs then implement it quickly if you are just starting to consider this technology feel free to stay in touch we will let you know what we decide on and if it works for us if you cannot advise on this please forward this e mail to the proper individual in your company who might be able to help with this thanks jay this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
hello did any of you hear about a a razor plugin for mozilla a plugin that would add a report as spam button somewhere for the user to report a mail as spam on a server arnaud arnaud abélard administrateur réseaux et systèmes irin faculté de sciences université de nantes this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
no please post a link fox original message from arnaud abelard arnaud abelard sciences univ nantes fr to razor users example sourceforge net sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject razor users razor plugins for mozilla hello did any of you hear about a a razor plugin for mozilla a plugin that would add a report as spam button somewhere for the user to report a mail as spam on a server arnaud arnaud abélard administrateur réseaux et systèmes irin faculté de sciences université de nantes this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
revoking self submitted content unblocking something you accidentally blocked results in permanent deletion of said content from the network fortunately razorNUMBER spamnet isa network of content people don t want in their inbox let alone ip rights block away jordan on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER craig URL wrote free is a relative concept if you actually read the eula no commercial use and anything you submit to razor becomes entirely their intellectual property better not accidentally hit this is spam on anything you want to retain ip rights to ,0
oh i was serious i m awful with perl etc i just think the html graph that was created was pretty neat and i wish i could do something like that i can t tell if you are serious or joking i have a custom perl based spam blocking framework that uses plug ins to block spam i test each message with every plug in and keep the stats in a mysql database which are what you see below fox original message from jonathan nichols jnichols pbp net to razor users URL sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject re razor users razor vNUMBER effectiveness stats html table take NUMBER how do you make up graphs like that anyway original message from daniel higgins dhiggins netc net to fox ldsNUMBER cdc net razor users URL sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject re razor users razor vNUMBER effectiveness stats html table take NUMBER that s pretty impressive have you seen any false positives yet myself i m still at the stage of creating the corpuses i ll report back after i get some testing of my own p original message from fox to razor users URL sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm subject re razor users razor vNUMBER effectiveness stats html table take NUMBER sorry about the html for those of you still using elm or other non gui clients i don t have time to post it as text the spam count is the total of all spam detected by the various filters jammed is a custom phrase ranking system razored is razor vNUMBER bayesian filter is based off of paul graham s work statistical probability using a corpus of NUMBER non spam and NUMBER spam messages spam statistics date spam count jammed razored blacklisted trollbox bayesian NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
hi newbie to the list question i ve been working on porting the code to run under perl on windows the changes are fairly minor and can be made to interoperate with the current code how would one best go about getting those changes merged in better question would there be interest in such a version and getting those changes merged in bill this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i found a nice little perl script for this purpose called rotate which makes the process of rotating log files very simple if there s an official source for this script i couldn t find it my hosting provider URL has it installed and that s where i found it however redistribution appears to be allowed so i ve attached it good luck l david rees wrote on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER theo van dinter wrote on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER mike burger wrote you might be better asking this on the spamassassin talk list the folks there will almost definitely have an answer for this i posted a fairly lengthy complete answer to this problem and how to get around it in sa NUMBER NUMBER on the spamassassin talk list thanks for the post there it answered all my questions about spamassassin razor interaction now for a razor question i m worried about having a server full of razor agent log files which keep on growing is it possible to configure razor log via syslog to make it easy to rotate logs searching through the man pages didn t turn anything up otherwise i ll have to write a script to go through each user s home directory looking for razor agent log files to rotate periodically thanks dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER leland woodbury wrote i found a nice little perl script for this purpose called rotate which makes the process of rotating log files very simple if there s an official source for this script i couldn t find it my hosting provider URL has it installed and that s where i found it however redistribution appears to be allowed so i ve attached it thanks for the script it also appears that the standard logrotate tools included with many systems or at least redhat systems will support wildcards when rotating files so something like home razor razor agent log can be specified dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER theo van dinter wrote on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER mike burger wrote you might be better asking this on the spamassassin talk list the folks there will almost definitely have an answer for this i posted a fairly lengthy complete answer to this problem and how to get around it in sa NUMBER NUMBER on the spamassassin talk list thanks for the post there it answered all my questions about spamassassin razor interaction now for a razor question i m worried about having a server full of razor agent log files which keep on growing is it possible to configure razor log via syslog to make it easy to rotate logs searching through the man pages didn t turn anything up otherwise i ll have to write a script to go through each user s home directory looking for razor agent log files to rotate periodically thanks dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
and you were exactly the person i figured would do so g on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER theo van dinter wrote on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER mike burger wrote you might be better asking this on the spamassassin talk list the folks there will almost definitely have an answer for this i posted a fairly lengthy complete answer to this problem and how to get around it in sa NUMBER NUMBER on the spamassassin talk list this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER josh hildebrand wrote if that s the case can someone please point me to something that explains how to remove razorNUMBER from my system i don t see a point in envoking it especially when it appears to error out on me problem while trying to load razorNUMBER permission denied at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin dns pm line NUMBER debug leaving helper app run mode rm rf usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razor you ll want to check that path first of course randomly generated tagline it s a chicken finger device theo looking at entree ,0
shouldn t there be a w somewhere in tehre simply setting group and owner to read and execute won t alleviate a write problem on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER michael duff wrote this is due to insufficient write privileges to the razor agent log file a quick work around is to do a chmod go rx on that file of course it s better to restrict the access as much as possible in URL when the razorNUMBER logger object is created if it doesn t have write permission to the log file it does not succeed then later in the code when the log object is used it fails with the unblessed error hope this helps michael duff david rees wrote this is my first time running razor heard a lot of good things about it so i thought i d give it a shot i also run spamassassin so i d like to integrate the two i m not sure if this problem is with spamassassin or razor so i though i d shoot the message here first with a freshly installed spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER and razor NUMBER NUMBER i m seeing these messages spit out from spamd razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client URL line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER any ideas razor seems to run correctly over the command line thanks dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER mike burger wrote you might be better asking this on the spamassassin talk list the folks there will almost definitely have an answer for this i posted a fairly lengthy complete answer to this problem and how to get around it in sa NUMBER NUMBER on the spamassassin talk list randomly generated tagline good judgment comes from bad experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment zen musings ,0
 theo thank you very much it solves the problem eugene original message from razor users admin URL mailto razor users admin URL on behalf of theo van dinter sent september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to eugene chiu cc razor users URL subject re razor users spamassassin razorNUMBER on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER eugene chiu wrote razorNUMBER check skipped bad file descriptor insecure dependency in open while runn ing setuid at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client config pm line NUMBER genNUMBER line NUMBER from info URL thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER subject spam computer maintenance folder home eugene caughtspam NUMBER it looks like you re running via procmail what are the permissions on procmail insecure dependency screams i m in taint mode which is a typical problem when procmail is setuid setgid the permissions should be NUMBER if this is in fact the problem an easy solution is to put dropprivs yes in the procmailrc randomly generated tagline the bus had no heat blew over in the wind and used the driver s legs as its first line of defense in an accident unknown about the vw bus this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
this is due to insufficient write privileges to the razor agent log file a quick work around is to do a chmod go rx on that file of course it s better to restrict the access as much as possible in URL when the razorNUMBER logger object is created if it doesn t have write permission to the log file it does not succeed then later in the code when the log object is used it fails with the unblessed error hope this helps michael duff david rees wrote this is my first time running razor heard a lot of good things about it so i thought i d give it a shot i also run spamassassin so i d like to integrate the two i m not sure if this problem is with spamassassin or razor so i though i d shoot the message here first with a freshly installed spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER and razor NUMBER NUMBER i m seeing these messages spit out from spamd razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client URL line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER any ideas razor seems to run correctly over the command line thanks dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
hi all i am wondering if anybody has successfully install a site wide spamassassin razorNUMBER installation i am having so much trouble and the following is the extract of my procmail log razorNUMBER check skipped bad file descriptor insecure dependency in open while runn ing setuid at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client config pm line NUMBER genNUMBER line NUMBER from info URL thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER subject spam computer maintenance folder home eugene caughtspam NUMBER in razor agent log i simply get the bootup message and that s it sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER bootup logging initiated logdebugleve l NUMBER to file var log razor agent log please help thanks eugene ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER eugene chiu wrote razorNUMBER check skipped bad file descriptor insecure dependency in open while runn ing setuid at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client config pm line NUMBER genNUMBER line NUMBER from info URL thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER subject spam computer maintenance folder home eugene caughtspam NUMBER it looks like you re running via procmail what are the permissions on procmail insecure dependency screams i m in taint mode which is a typical problem when procmail is setuid setgid the permissions should be NUMBER if this is in fact the problem an easy solution is to put dropprivs yes in the procmailrc randomly generated tagline the bus had no heat blew over in the wind and used the driver s legs as its first line of defense in an accident unknown about the vw bus ,0
forgive me for being a partially stupid end user of this fantastic spam fighting software i was looking at my spamd debug output today and noticed that it ran through razorNUMBER stuff and then it ran through dccproc and then it tried to go through old razorNUMBER stuff i m assuming and please correct me if i m wrong that razorNUMBER is out dated and was to be replaced entirely by razorNUMBER if that s the case can someone please point me to something that explains how to remove razorNUMBER from my system i don t see a point in envoking it especially when it appears to error out on me debug razorNUMBER is available debug entering helper app run mode debug razor agents NUMBER NUMBER protocol version NUMBER debug NUMBER seconds before closest server discovery debug agent terminated problem while trying to load razorNUMBER permission denied at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mail spamassassin dns pm line NUMBER debug leaving helper app run mode thanks josh hildebrand email josh URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
you might be better asking this on the spamassassin talk list the folks there will almost definitely have an answer for this on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER david rees wrote this is my first time running razor heard a lot of good things about it so i thought i d give it a shot i also run spamassassin so i d like to integrate the two i m not sure if this problem is with spamassassin or razor so i though i d shoot the message here first with a freshly installed spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER and razor NUMBER NUMBER i m seeing these messages spit out from spamd razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER any ideas razor seems to run correctly over the command line thanks dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER mike burger wrote you might be better asking this on the spamassassin talk list the folks there will almost definitely have an answer for this thanks i just posted a similar message there dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
this is my first time running razor heard a lot of good things about it so i thought i d give it a shot i also run spamassassin so i d like to integrate the two i m not sure if this problem is with spamassassin or razor so i though i d shoot the message here first with a freshly installed spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER and razor NUMBER NUMBER i m seeing these messages spit out from spamd razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER any ideas razor seems to run correctly over the command line thanks dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
no as a answer to this faq would the recommended answer be to a chmod NUMBER usr bin procmail or b add dropprivs yes to etc procmailrc or c all of the above i ask because i just did b and my procmail is still rwsr sr x NUMBER root mail NUMBER jul NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER usr bin procmail but things seem to be working so far on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER eugene chiu wrote theo thank you very much it solves the problem eugene original message from razor users admin URL mailto razor users admin URL on behalf of theo van dinter sent september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to eugene chiu cc razor users URL subject re razor users spamassassin razorNUMBER on thu sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER eugene chiu wrote razorNUMBER check skipped bad file descriptor insecure dependency in open while runn ing setuid at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client config pm line NUMBER genNUMBER line NUMBER from info URL thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER subject spam computer maintenance folder home eugene caughtspam NUMBER it looks like you re running via procmail what are the permissions on procmail insecure dependency screams i m in taint mode which is a typical problem when procmail is setuid setgid the permissions should be NUMBER if this is in fact the problem an easy solution is to put dropprivs yes in the procmailrc randomly generated tagline the bus had no heat blew over in the wind and used the driver s legs as its first line of defense in an accident unknown about the vw bus this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL josh hildebrand email josh URL digital sluice pager URL phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER efax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i just set up razor and spamassassin but i keep getting this error in my mail log file razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER i have looked through the archived list and the only thing i have seen about this error is a possible permission problem on the log file i did what it said in the archives basically change the permission on the file but its still no go any other help would be appreciated maybe i m missing something something i forgot to run or do rob this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER rob wrote i just set up razor and spamassassin but i keep getting this error in my mail log file razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER i have looked through the archived list and the only thing i have seen about this error is a possible permission problem on the log file yeah the answer isn t here in this list it s on the spamassassin users list i just asked it late last week hint add h to the spamd startup flags using the latest version of spamassassin dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
or you could do this g on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER david rees wrote on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER rob wrote i just set up razor and spamassassin but i keep getting this error in my mail log file razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER i have looked through the archived list and the only thing i have seen about this error is a possible permission problem on the log file yeah the answer isn t here in this list it s on the spamassassin users list i just asked it late last week hint add h to the spamd startup flags using the latest version of spamassassin dave this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
it s a permissions issue on the razor log file spamassassin runs setuid to the user to whom mail is being delivered you ll need to make the razor log file world writable on mon NUMBER sep NUMBER rob wrote i just set up razor and spamassassin but i keep getting this error in my mail log file razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER i have looked through the archived list and the only thing i have seen about this error is a possible permission problem on the log file i did what it said in the archives basically change the permission on the file but its still no go any other help would be appreciated maybe i m missing something something i forgot to run or do rob this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
hey folks i know this question gets asked a lot but i haven t seen an answer lately any idea when a user will be able to view his own trust rating what are the plans for this will it be built into the client web based emailed to you nightly if you could share your brainstorming on the subject i would greatly appreciate it this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
does anyone else experience this URL NUMBER also it seems that the bugs tracker on sf isn t used very much is there somewhere else to post bugs colin this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i have a spamd spamc razor dcc setup my razor logs are full of sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER bootup logging initiated logdebuglevel NUMBER to file home omegaNUMBER razor razor agent log sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER is not known spam the problem is that all the entries show is not known spam i can t believe i m that lucky so how do i test to see that my razor installation is working properly i ve been up to my ears in documentation for the past few days so if the reference is easy just point me to it otherwise a brief hint on how to would be appreciated robin lynn frank paradigm omega llc gandalf fell at khazadum sheridan fell at z ha dum avoid high places in locations ending in dum this URL email is sponsored by osdn tired of that same old cell phone get a new here for free URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on tue NUMBER sep NUMBER rose bobby wrote use the sample spam txt from spamassassin and do a razor check d sample spam txt interesting i just upgraded to razor agents NUMBER NUMBER yesterday ran razor admin register i to am seeing that i m not getting any positives from razor including the sample spam txt s from spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER any suggestions thanks d output below maxwell var qmail alias gb users razor check d usr local src mail spamassassin NUMBER NUMBER sample spam txt razor log computed razorhome from env root razor razor log found razorhome root razor razor log no root razor razor agent conf found skipping razor log no razor agent conf found using defaults sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER bootup logging initiated logdebuglevel NUMBER to stdout sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER computed razorhome root razor conf ident root razor identity ruqvaNUMBERjbus sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER razor agents vNUMBER NUMBER starting razor check d sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER uname a freebsd URL NUMBER NUMBER release pNUMBER freebsd NUMBER NUMBER release pNUMBER NUMBER wed may NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt NUMBER root URL iNUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER reading straight rfcNUMBER mail from stdin sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read NUMBER mail sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER client supported_engines NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER prep_mail done mail NUMBER headers NUMBER mimeNUMBER NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER skipping whitelist file empty root razor razor whitelist sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from root razor servers discovery lst sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from root razor servers nomination lst sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from root razor servers catalogue lst sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER assigning defaults to URL sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER assigning defaults to URL sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER assigning defaults to URL sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER assigning defaults to URL sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from root razor server URL conf sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER read_file NUMBER items read from root razor server URL conf sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER seconds before closest server discovery sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL is a catalogue server srl NUMBER computed min_cf NUMBER server se NUMBERa sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER computed supported_engines NUMBER NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER using next closest server URL NUMBER cached info srl NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER subject home based business for grownups sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER preproc mail NUMBER NUMBER went from NUMBER bytes to NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER computing sigs for mail NUMBER NUMBER len NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER connecting to URL sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER connection established sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER server greeting sn c srl NUMBER epNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER a l sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL is a catalogue server srl NUMBER computed min_cf NUMBER server se NUMBERa sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER computed supported_engines NUMBER NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER eNUMBER sig pgfffteNUMBERpNUMBERve cptduNUMBERnwgibika sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER eNUMBER sig kNUMBERogzsaNUMBERavvolyvalwxNUMBERaacdwbNUMBERa sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER preparing NUMBER queries sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER sending NUMBER batches sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER a c e NUMBER s pgfffteNUMBERpNUMBERve cptduNUMBERnwgibika a c e NUMBER epNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER s kNUMBERogzsaNUMBERavvolyvalwxNUMBERaacdwbNUMBERa sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER response to sent NUMBER p NUMBER p NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER e NUMBER sig pgfffteNUMBERpNUMBERve cptduNUMBERnwgibika sig not found sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER e NUMBER sig kNUMBERogzsaNUMBERavvolyvalwxNUMBERaacdwbNUMBERa sig not found sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER method NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER no contention part spam NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER method NUMBER mail NUMBER a non contention part not spam mail not spam sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER is not known spam sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER disconnecting from server URL sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER a q sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER check NUMBER NUMBER razor check finished successfully david raistrick drais URL URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
to continue the subject on an otherwise unrelated note the following personal correspondence was just flagged as spam the following is a slightly modified e mail message trapped in a server wide spam box newspaper any time estimate when we can expect you home dad to cc subject oh yeah NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm i have to stay after school today so i can work on the school newspaper layout nords will bring me home later than usual i don t know how to explain this one will this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i m taking all my razored mail today and calling any NUMBER NUMBER numbers i can find i say hi i m calling everyone that spammed me today to raise their cost of doing business you have a great day i m told i should do it from a pay phone so it costs them NUMBER cents per call if more people did this we could tie up their phone lines and cost them so much money they could never make spam work also fun is the simple die spammer die fox this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
haven t heard anything about this so excuse the repost but URL group_id NUMBER atid NUMBER or should bugs be reported somewhere other than on the sf bug tracker colin this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
hi is it possible to use razor without filtering empty mails as spamm an mail with an attachment is considered spamm is this normal or i mysqlf like to send emails to myself where all important is said in subject and body is empty for remaining smth thanks raido kurel this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
razor won t filter empty emails what version of the agents are you using cheers vipul on mon sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER raido kurel wrote hi is it possible to use razor without filtering empty mails as spamm an mail with an attachment is considered spamm is this normal or i mysqlf like to send emails to myself where all important is said in subject and body is empty for remaining smth thanks raido kurel this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL vipul ved prakash the future is here it s just not software design artist widely distributed URL william gibson this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
 fox said before or after i whitelisted all the legit mailing lists that razor is tagging i had one false positive in the last four days razor tagged some guys person to person message because he used an ostrich in your face jpeg that is probably pretty popular on the net and lm NUMBER means any single attachment in a message that is razored razors the whole message if i understand it correctly razor folks is lm documented anywhere btw i notice all my conf files in razor use lm NUMBER by default anyway no i am not keeping official tally of false positives i need to write a html interface to do it and then it would be easy i imagine you want false positive rate per filter i will work on it tomorrow and maybe in a week i will have some stats for false positives yeah that d be cool much appreciated comparing text classifiers like spam filters without tracking fps is not good after all cat dev null gets a NUMBER hit rate but without the fp rate figure of let s say NUMBER you d never know it was a bad thing to do j ,0
gary funck gary intrepid com NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in my experience there are spam messages that sneak past spam assassin that razor will pick up those are the ones that i m calling marginal basically i m hoping that the collective of razor users make a better judge of spam than any single program like sa can and therefore i can benefit from their judgement and get more extensive spam filtering i ve seen examples of this already where sa doesn t score the spam high enough to bounce it but razor does i think perhaps you missed the fact that sa scores are adjustable if you want sa to tag all messages listed in razor then you can put this in your spamassassin user_prefs file score razor_check NUMBER the default score is NUMBER and the default threshold needed is NUMBER therefore if you wish to have any razor listed messages tagged by sa then setting a score for any razor listed messages to anything above NUMBER would be sufficient if you are already using sa then the above would be more efficient otherwise you are running all of the mail through razor twice once for sa and once again afterward if you really want to run razor individually then you should set the score razor_check NUMBER so that sa won t do it and avoid the double network hit however one of the benefits of using sa in combination with razor has been the history of false positive reports in the razor database the current score of NUMBER is hefty but not enough by itself to tag as spam but for any real spam is usually enough to push it over the threshold razorNUMBER addresses the false positive problem but is not yet in as wide of use as razorNUMBER bob ,0
 i suggest that you use a normal user to start once you are familiar enough with razor and understand how it works try the complex things like integration with the mta and the like ok but do i have to launch that command as root or what thank you this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
using lm NUMBER is yielding an extra NUMBER a day but it gets false positives where it shouldn t such as an email with a word doc and the signature below after looking at the word doc directions to the sender s cabin i am convinced it marked the body which contains no next except the incredimail advertisment signature as spam so i have to turn off lm NUMBER razor has been getting other strange emails it shouldn t with lm NUMBER on see the incredimail ad signature i am talking about below fox ____________________________________________________ incredimail email has finally evolved click here this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
depends on how you want to use it the default setup of running it from procmail works just fine as long as you remember to go into your postfix main cf file and tell it to use procmail instead of the internal delivery agent on thu NUMBER sep NUMBER boniforti flavio wrote how do i intergrate razor into my postfix setup will it have to interact with amavis or with spamassassin thank you boniforti flavio informa srl via NUMBER martiri NUMBER NUMBER verbania vb tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
 here is my recipe for maildrop vipul s razor check log usr bin razor check log razor check returncode if returncode NUMBER xfilter reformail a x razor spam log spam caught by vipul s razor to folders spam i used this with razor version NUMBER i m not sure if it was ever used with razorNUMBER i am now using spamassassin w razorNUMBER you may wish to remove the log statements once running i use both spamassassin sa catches things that razor does not there were enough false positives with razor that i do not trust it alone after whitelisting all the newsletters i receive sa w razorNUMBER does a very good job hth jeffrey quoting sunil william savkar sunil inthespace com hi i just finished installing and getting running maildrop with my virtual users i was thinking to set up razor with maildrop as my first test of its filtering capabilities i have seen documentation out there for procmail but is there similar documentation for integrating maildrop with razor separately it looks like many people use spamassassin with razor if i am using razorNUMBER is there still an advantage to this thanks in advance sunil this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
jeff what is the maildrop recipe you use with spamassassin i was trying to set mine up but i am running into a few difficulties i think i will try spamassassin first and see how it goes and then perhaps fold in razorNUMBER is it easy to fold in sunil here is my recipe for maildrop vipul s razor check log usr bin razor check log razor check returncode if returncode NUMBER xfilter reformail a x razor spam log spam caught by vipul s razor to folders spam i used this with razor version NUMBER i m not sure if it was ever used with razorNUMBER i am now using spamassassin w razorNUMBER you may wish to remove the log statements once running i use both spamassassin sa catches things that razor does not there were enough false positives with razor that i do not trust it alone after whitelisting all the newsletters i receive sa w razorNUMBER does a very good job hth jeffrey quoting sunil william savkar sunil inthespace com hi i just finished installing and getting running maildrop with my virtual users i was thinking to set up razor with maildrop as my first test of its filtering capabilities i have seen documentation out there for procmail but is there similar documentation for integrating maildrop with razor separately it looks like many people use spamassassin with razor if i am using razorNUMBER is there still an advantage to this thanks in advance sunil this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i received a spam email that had apparently forged the from header with my own email address after reviewing the message i forwarded it with the rest of a batch of spam ti the database with razor report now of course my own email address is listed int he razor database how do i go about getting it removed i have seen this ploy forged from headers several time since then perhaps the razor report need to detect this and emit a warning dave this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
 vipul ved prakash said are there any suggestions for fixing this in razor agents razor agents could write to syslog by default but i am not sure if that would be desirable default behaviour hi vipul i reckon if the unwritable log file error condition could be caught by razor and handled gracefully logging to syslog or dev null it d be a great help as it stands if the log file is unwritable the razor check falls over entirely as the constructor returns undef unblessed reference die error in perl j this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i m getting no servers available about half the time in the last few days this is with razor NUMBER is there something i need adjust in the installation here or are the servers just down overloaded thanks whit this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i just installed razor NUMBER NUMBER on a freebsd NUMBER NUMBER release box and having problems with razor check any time razor check is run with or without arguments i get this error can t use an undefined value as a symbol reference at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER freebsd razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER razor admin runs just fine and the make test before the install was all ok has anyone seen this before module versions digest hmac NUMBER NUMBER digest mdNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER digest nilsimsa NUMBER NUMBER digest shaNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mime baseNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER net dns NUMBER NUMBER test simple NUMBER NUMBER time hires NUMBER NUMBER uri NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
 date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt from dayv gastonguay noghri nauticom net i just installed razor NUMBER NUMBER on a freebsd NUMBER NUMBER release box and having problems with razor check any time razor check is run with or without arguments i get this error can t use an undefined value as a symbol reference at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER iNUMBER freebsd razorNUMBER client agent pm line NUMBER try installing the latest perl at least NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER port on freebsd and make sure you set the system to use perl from ports i e in the ports lang perlNUMBER files directory run use perl port reinstall the relevant perl modules needed by razor and try again sven this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i noticed a drop in checks and did some tests if i move truth up in my catalog list a check comes back postive but if i move fire up in the list then i don t get the positive check back it s almost like it s not syncing up with hubris which is the one my reports are getting sent to bobby this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
what does this mean i set up procmailrc for a spamtrap but i m getting an error i also am reporting to pyzor and dcc and they aren t registering an error what s weird is that it works sometimes oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER response to sent NUMBER res NUMBER err NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER orig_email special case eng NUMBER server accept ed report oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER eng NUMBER err NUMBER server wants mail this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
 i recently brought up a new system suse NUMBER NUMBER and i am running spamassassin and procmail which work fine i tried bringing up razor NUMBER NUMBER but i am not able to get the sdk to install and razor reports missing modules they appear to be there i followed the installation directions there appears to be an endless list of errors any ideas on what to do or where to start doug this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
error NUMBER occurs when you report a signature but the server doesn t know about the signature so it wants the full content it s basically an optimization beyond that i m not sure how to interpret that output what version vipul jordan on wed oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER rose bobby wrote what does this mean i set up procmailrc for a spamtrap but i m getting an error i also am reporting to pyzor and dcc and they aren t registering an error what s weird is that it works sometimes oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER response to sent NUMBER res NUMBER err NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER orig_email special case eng NUMBER server accept ed report oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER eng NUMBER err NUMBER server wants mail this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
if you examine the log further you ll see debug messages generated by the content reporting process that follows error NUMBER on wed oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER jordan ritter wrote error NUMBER occurs when you report a signature but the server doesn t know about the signature so it wants the full content it s basically an optimization beyond that i m not sure how to interpret that output what version vipul on wed oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER rose bobby wrote what does this mean i set up procmailrc for a spamtrap but i m getting an error i also am reporting to pyzor and dcc and they aren t registering an error what s weird is that it works sometimes oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER response to sent NUMBER res NUMBER err NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER orig_email special case eng NUMBER server accept ed report oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER report NUMBER NUMBER mail NUMBER NUMBER eng NUMBER err NUMBER server wants mail vipul ved prakash the future is here it s just not software design artist widely distributed yet URL william gibson this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i m still seeing razor reporting bomb out with a small variety of messages would reinitializing something here help or does razor do that as needed anyway and this just reflects trouble at the servers also since these are reports i m making from within mutt it s annoying that the error messages garble the x window a bit if there s nothing constructive to do about razor failing can i at least turn off the failure messages one way or the other i d rather not see them whit on wed sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER whit blauvelt wrote i m getting no servers available about half the time in the last few days this is with razor NUMBER is there something i need adjust in the installation here or are the servers just down overloaded thanks whit this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
trying to report spam razor chooses hubris i timeout on the connection which seems to have gotten slower all morning and receive the following error message razor report error connectNUMBER nextserver discoverNUMBER error reading socket connectNUMBER nextserver discoverNUMBER error reading socket i then try to run razor admin discover and receive the same error problems with the servers today only one discovery server sven this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
folks there have been several major internet outages this morning across major providers uunet genuity and god knows who else various routes across the internet backbones have been disappearing repropagating and disappearing again this has caused and exacerbated several problems which we are working on correcting right now we apologize for the inconvenience best jordan on thu oct NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER sven willenberger wrote trying to report spam razor chooses hubris i timeout on the connection which seems to have gotten slower all morning and receive the following error message razor report error connectNUMBER nextserver discoverNUMBER error reading socket connectNUMBER nextserver discoverNUMBER error reading socket i then try to run razor admin discover and receive the same error problems with the servers today only one discovery server sven this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
for everyone s benefit edification regardless of razor usage jordan original message from internap backbone status reports mailto noc URL sent thursday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am to internap backbone status reports subject event notification uunet north american backbone problems NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt tixNUMBER fwd hello i have just spoken with an uunet technician at NUMBER NUMBER pdt and he was unable to provide me with any new information regarding the outage he did confirm that problems had spread beyond the east coast and are now seen nationwide through out their network they are currently working with their hardware vendor to try and isolate the issue a large number of internap s connections to uunet remain shutdown and traffic is being routed over alternate providers the scale of this outage is causing a large number of peering points with uunet and other providers to be flooded due to the large traffic shifts if you have problems reaching specific sites please send an email to noc URL containing a traceroute and source destination ip addresses and we will investigate if it is possible will will attempt to move specific prefixes onto an alternate provider leaving an internap pnap if that will provide better performance regards andrew andrew dul network operations center internap network services e mail noc URL andrew URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the inoc the contents of this email message are confidential and proprietary forwarded message date thu NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pdt from andrew dul andrew URL subject event notification uunet north american backbone problems tixNUMBER uunet is currently experiencing a large number of problems in their north american backbone internap has been aware of these problems since approx NUMBER NUMBER pst most of the problems appear to be concentrated on the east coast but we have reports of problems from other geographic regions this is being tracked under internap ticket NUMBER and uunet master ticket NUMBER uunet currently does not have any eta for a fix for this event if you have issues reaching a specific site please send an email to noc URL with a traceroute showing the path which has a problem internap has shutdown peerings to uunet is various cities to help reduce the number of problems that customers will experience regards andrew andrew dul network operations center internap network services e mail noc URL andrew URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the inoc the contents of this email message are confidential and proprietary ,0
this is happening due to insufficient write access to the razor agent log file i was getting the same error but only as a non root user as a quick workaround you can do chmod go w razor agent log in URL when then the logger object is created it doesn t check whether the logfile is writable by the current user then when a write attempt is made it bails out with the unblessed reference error hope that helps michael i just noticed the following log entries in my syslog with the latest spamassassin cvs set up using spamc spamd and razor agents NUMBER NUMBER jul NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER timmy spamd NUMBER razorNUMBER check skipped no such file or directory can t call method log on unblessed reference at usr local lib perlNUMBER site_perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER razorNUMBER client URL line NUMBER stdin line NUMBER i saw this after checking if my upgrade from razor agents NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER went okay but the problem is still there after downgrading back to NUMBER NUMBER i don t really know when this started happening any ideas on the problem robert this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
 begin pgp signed message hash shaNUMBER de i thursday NUMBER august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER la fox cusku di e the following was personal correspondence between two people i can t fathom how razor thinks it is spam was it sent in html if so and it had a background the background may have been sent in a spam cmeclax begin pgp signature version gnupg vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gnu linux idNUMBERdbqeNUMBERbqNUMBERfNUMBER kNUMBERhdmgNUMBERjmrakNUMBERxajNUMBERcheea hliuNUMBERztzfjbpyopum xwcfxgzNUMBER tgNUMBERfnNUMBERjcgNUMBERqNUMBERulkvfaojzk mwNUMBER end pgp signature this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on thu aug NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER cmeclax po u le cmevi u ke umri wrote was it sent in html if so and it had a background the background may have been sent in a spam razor agents NUMBER NUMBER needs all parts to be spam to make a positive decision though this will change with the next release so it couldn t have been a background could you send me the debug log cheers vipul vipul ved prakash the future is here it s just not software design artist widely distributed URL william gibson this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i ve been testing razor invoked from sendmail procmail and so far it seems pretty copacetic last night s spam to the list provided a good test the spam itself as well as several of the responses were flagged as other list members reported this morning i piped the messages out from pine being careful to use the raw mode to razor check d none of the messages come back as spam even the spam since folks revoked the false positives i understand why they would not come up but not the spam itself unless that also was revoked is this spam just a bad one to test against or is there some setting in pine or razor that i am missing sc this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt samuel checker sc pffcu org wrote i ve been testing razor invoked from sendmail procmail and so far it seems pretty copacetic last night s spam to the list provided a good test the spam itself as well as several of the responses were flagged as other list members reported this morning i piped the messages out from pine being careful to use the raw mode to razor check d none of the messages come back as spam even the spam since folks revoked the false positives i understand why they would not come up but not the spam itself unless that also was revoked is this spam just a bad one to test against or is there some setting in pine or razor that i am missing are you using spamassassin on the input side i ve just changed my sendmail installation and am looking for the proper way to pass it through there systemwide before accepting it and sending it to the users it s kinda problematic to set up procmail scripts for every user when the user s home directories are nfs mounted and the source is on my own machine on which i try new things and it s the only machine with the drivespace brian fahrländer linux zealot conservative and technomad evansville in my voyage URL icq NUMBER angegangen schlange hüften sein es ganz rüber jetzt bügel innen fest weil es eine lange süsse fahrt ist this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER brian fahrlander wrote on wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER edt samuel checker sc pffcu org wrote i ve been testing razor invoked from sendmail procmail and so far it seems pretty copacetic last night s spam to the list provided a good test the spam itself as well as several of the responses were flagged as other list members reported are you using spamassassin on the input side i ve just changed my sendmail installation and am looking for the proper way to pass it through there systemwide before accepting it and sending it to the users it s kinda problematic to set up procmail scripts for every user when the user s home directories are nfs mounted and the source is on my own machine on which i try new things and it s the only machine with the drivespace i ve not used spamassassin on the kiss principle i just have procmail adding an x header and optionally modifying the subject if razor check comes back positive sc this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
i am somewhat puzzled by a phone call i or rather the cio at the isp for whom i work received from an individual claiming to represent cloudmark the gist of the call was that since we were using razor and checking our mail against the razor servers and that since those servers contain information proprietary to cloudmark we would in the near future be required to begin paying cloudmark spamnet NUMBER NUMBER user per year i was wondering if anyone else has received such a call i am curious as to whether a spammer has begun to try contacting razor users with the above tactic in an effort to get them to stop using razor or whether the open source community aspect of the razor project is going by the wayside in lieu of a strictly commercial approach ala brightmail and the likes sven this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ razor users mailing list razor users URL URL ,0
hi i was inspired by a mode of operation supported by vmware you can have a base disk image shared by multiple virtual machine vm instances that base image is never altered by a vm instance instead each vm instance writes changes to its own redo log future hard disk reads from that vm instance incorporate both the base image and the appropriate redo log to present the current disk image for that specific virtual machine this is described here thanks to duane for providing this link on the honeypots mailing list URL could this basic concept be used to easily make self fixing client server applications that efficiently and automatically recover from most attacks even before those attacks have been discovered here is what i imagine the physical architectures of most production client server systems are layered for example your basic web application might have a web server running apache connected to an application server running some jNUMBERee or net business logic connected to a database server for persistence the only one of these whose disk image really should evolve over time is the database server and even here you often put the static rdbms software on one partition and the changeable datafiles on another partition it is only the partition with the volatile datafiles that must be allowed to change from one boot to the next other paritions may need to be writable for say swap space but these changes could be eliminated on each reboot when someone cracks this system they will probably change an image that shouldn t be changed e g they might leverage a buffer overflow in iis or apache to install a trojan or a backdoor on the more exposed web server but what if the web server ran off a base image writing changes to a delta or redo partition and then what if every night it automatically erased the redo partition and rebooted the downtime involved for each machine would be minimal because it is only deleting data rather than restoring from backup in a system with redundant web servers for load balancing or high availability this could be scheduled in a way such that the system is always accessible this base redo partition concept could be implemented at the same level as a feature of hardware raid allowing for greater performance reliability and hack resistance this concept could also be applied to the application servers and even the database server partitions except for those partitions which contain the table data files of course does anyone do this already or is this a new concept or has this concept been discussed before and abandoned for some reasons that i don t yet know i use the physical architecture of a basic web application as an example in this post but this concept could of course be applied to most server systems it would allow for the hardware separation of volatile and non volatile disk images it would be analogous to performing nightly ghosting operations only it would be more efficient and involve less or no downtime thanks for any opinions ben ,0
on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER yannick gingras wrote this make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards they have an internal procession unit around NUMBERmhz can we consider them as trusted hardware the ability to ship smart cards periodicaly uppon cashing of a monthly subscription fee would not raise too much the cost of renting the system smart card do their own self encryption can they be used to decrypt data needed by the system the input of the system could me mangled and the would keep a reference of how long it was in service this sounds really feasible but i may be totaly wrong i may also be wrong about the safety of a smart card what do you think that s similar to using hard locks either the old parallel or the new usb the problem is that that piece of hardware is trustworthy but the rest of the pc isn t so a cracker just needs to simulate the lock smart card or peek at the executable after the lock has been deactivated regards luciano rocha consciousness that annoying time between naps ,0
i did something crudely along those lines for vms vax maybe NUMBER years ago there is at least one product that does it for pc though i don t recall its name it is also handy for cases where you have a cd image of some filesystem or some other image of a filesystem that is intrinsically readonly but whose filesystem will not accept or is not graceful readonly storage it is also more or less necessary if you want to work with worm file structures which are older still there have been a number of filesystems for those dating back to the early NUMBERs if not before a generic facility of the type you mention is also one way to implement snapshots on top of an existing filesystem the written information must obviously be seekable so you can provide the illusion that you wrote to the storage a device level implementation is however perfectly adequate it does not of course distinguish for you what should have been changed and what should not if you truly know a device or perhaps a partition must not be written it can be simpler to either return error on writes or to just return a fake success on writes yet discard the data ntfs lives with the latter strategy just fine from my experiments i have not tried it on extfNUMBER or reiser btw think about your mention of raid and consider the complexity of writing to raidNUMBER or raidNUMBER i would contend that with cheaper storage these days it makes little sense to use raid save for shadowing and possibly striping those at least do not have the complexity and slowup dangers that higher raid levels have and there is not a need to save the cost of disk so much where a single disk may hold NUMBER gigs and up why not dedicate another whole disk to fault recovery and lose the complexity and slow write sometimes of raid glenn everhart original message from bmord URL mailto bmord URL sent tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to webappsec securityfocus com secprog securityfocus subject use of base image delta image for automated recovery from attacks hi i was inspired by a mode of operation supported by vmware you can have a base disk image shared by multiple virtual machine vm instances that base image is never altered by a vm instance instead each vm instance writes changes to its own redo log future hard disk reads from that vm instance incorporate both the base image and the appropriate redo log to present the current disk image for that specific virtual machine this is described here thanks to duane for providing this link on the honeypots mailing list URL could this basic concept be used to easily make self fixing client server applications that efficiently and automatically recover from most attacks even before those attacks have been discovered here is what i imagine the physical architectures of most production client server systems are layered for example your basic web application might have a web server running apache connected to an application server running some jNUMBERee or net business logic connected to a database server for persistence the only one of these whose disk image really should evolve over time is the database server and even here you often put the static rdbms software on one partition and the changeable datafiles on another partition it is only the partition with the volatile datafiles that must be allowed to change from one boot to the next other paritions may need to be writable for say swap space but these changes could be eliminated on each reboot when someone cracks this system they will probably change an image that shouldn t be changed e g they might leverage a buffer overflow in iis or apache to install a trojan or a backdoor on the more exposed web server but what if the web server ran off a base image writing changes to a delta or redo partition and then what if every night it automatically erased the redo partition and rebooted the downtime involved for each machine would be minimal because it is only deleting data rather than restoring from backup in a system with redundant web servers for load balancing or high availability this could be scheduled in a way such that the system is always accessible this base redo partition concept could be implemented at the same level as a feature of hardware raid allowing for greater performance reliability and hack resistance this concept could also be applied to the application servers and even the database server partitions except for those partitions which contain the table data files of course does anyone do this already or is this a new concept or has this concept been discussed before and abandoned for some reasons that i don t yet know i use the physical architecture of a basic web application as an example in this post but this concept could of course be applied to most server systems it would allow for the hardware separation of volatile and non volatile disk images it would be analogous to performing nightly ghosting operations only it would be more efficient and involve less or no downtime thanks for any opinions ben this transmission may contain information that is privileged confidential and or exempt from disclosure under applicable law if you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure copying distribution or use of the information contained herein including any reliance thereon is strictly prohibited if you received this transmission in error please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety whether in electronic or hard copy format thank you ,0
scott mackenzie wrote there is a software package that is used or was up through wNUMBERk on microsloth for this purpose ghost or some such one essentially takes a picture of the machine s proper config and then upon schedule or demand replaces the machine s current config with the proper picture it essentially over writes the entire disk drive especially good for student access machines at libraries etc and it is pretty common practice in some environments with public workstations to just wipe and re install windows machines on a weekly or even daily basis it s easier than trying to maintain windows crispin crispin cowan ph d chief scientist wirex URL security hardened linux distribution URL available for purchase URL ,0
the only way to insure a safe key is to use all the storage space in the universe too big to decrypt my point is there will never be a safe key what i would consider is how long does the data need to be protected if you need to protect the data for longer than NUMBER months do not release it to the public if you are trying to stop the general public your customer from coping the data then use what is available on the market if you want to stop the bootleggers do not release the data to the public i have never seen a lock that could not be unlocked the act of unlocking the key gives away it s secret the tougher the lock the more pissed off your customers will be take ms xp for example only the home user is forced to register think of the nightmare if business had to register every copy how many times have we needed to reinstall our laptop os notice the amount of mac s sold after the xp release these where mostly home users that converted to mac os the new audio cd s that have digital copy protection so not play on my computer does this stop me from copying the cd no however it does make me return them and get my money back the more popular the software the more likely it is to be cracked jef ,0
 simple approxmation to this make usr a separate partion and mount it read only the good news attackers that want to trojan your software have to reboot at least the bad news administrators that want to update your software have to reboot at least no reboot is required you just need to remount it mount o remount rw usr this requires root access but presumably usr is safe from non root users anyway only way to disable this is to have the kernel compiled with something that compartmentalizes capabilities lids etc on linux for example or to remove cap_sys_admin with lcap which would definately require a reboot and possibly break some other functionatily to boot pun intended my apologies brian hatch are you expected systems and no dreaded security engineer URL every message pgp signed ,0
there is a software package that is used or was up through wNUMBERk on microsloth for this purpose ghost or some such one essentially takes a picture of the machine s proper config and then upon schedule or demand replaces the machine s current config with the proper picture it essentially over writes the entire disk drive especially good for student access machines at libraries etc ben mord wrote original message from crispin cowan mailto crispin wirex com sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to ben mord cc webappsec securityfocus com secprog securityfocus subject re use of base image delta image for automated recovery from attacks i did my dissertation work in this area optimistic computing and so was interested in applying it to the security problem unfortunately you hit a bunch of problems a when can you commit a state as being good you can t run from a redo log forever the performance and storage penalties accumulate even log structured file systems garbage collect eventually so you have to commit sometime the problem is that if you commit too eagerly you might commit corrupted state if you commit too conservatively you eat performance and storage penalties b what do you do if you discover that there is corrupted state in the middle of your redo log and you want some of the critical state that comes after it you need some way to dig the corruption out of the middle and save the rest my dissertation solves this problem but you have to re write everything in my programming language c just doing this at all imposes substantial performance penalties i love vmware and use it every day the best NUMBER i ever spent on software but it is not very fast my proposed solution to the first two problems you mention is to be less ambitious the idea is that you never commit instead you simply revert to base state on reboot obviously you can t do this with partitions that accrue important state e g a partition that stores database table data but in your typical web application most partitions do not accrue important state for example your typical web server or application server could have their entire state reset back to a known base state during each reboot without harm the advantage of being less ambitious is that we have a quick and easy way to frustrate certain attacks without rewriting all of our software or spending lots of money on additional application specific coding the first two problems you describe only occur if we become more ambitious and try to apply these same techniques to for example the database table partitions where state changes remain important across reboots that would certainly be a nice touch but as you point out many problems would have to be addressed first and the hardest of these can not be abstracted away from the particular application not the least of these is the problem of writing heuristics for delineating good from malevolent state that task is roughly analogous to what antiviral software authors do for a living only this work could not be shared across many different systems as it would be specific to a paritcular application the third problem you mention performance penalty is an argument for doing this in hardware much like hardware raid another argument for doing this in hardware is hack resistance changing the base instance should require physical access to the console e g by requiring that you first flip a physical switch on your raid hardware or modify a bios setting if the base image can be modified remotely or by software then you have to worry about whether an implementation flaw might permit a cracker to modify the base image remotely ben ______ scott mackenzie dine college isd c phone voice mail NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER o senior dba cars coordinator etc _ email scottm URL ,0
 however cracking and reverse engineering tools are not so ubiquitous on unix as they are on windows platform for two main reasons NUMBER the main customers of commercial unices solaris hp ux aix sco are respectable companies they are ready to pay big bucks for software they need the reputation matters NUMBER most software for free and open source unices like linux and xbsd this software often may be used on commercial unices as well is well free and open source thanks to your answers i start to see where i should head for what are your sugestions for protecting a NUMBER online requirement system yannick gingras coder for obb observing bantu speaking butanone URL ,0
ben mord wrote original message from crispin cowan mailto crispin wirex com sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to ben mord cc webappsec securityfocus com secprog securityfocus subject re use of base image delta image for automated recovery from attacks ben mord wrote i was inspired by a mode of operation supported by vmware use vmware s ability to rolll back state to recover from intrusions i did my dissertation work in this area optimistic computing URL and so was interested in applying it to the security problem unfortunately you hit a bunch of problems when can you commit a state as being good you can t run from a redo log forever the performance and storage penalties accumulate even log structured file systems garbage collect eventually so you have to commit sometime the problem is that if you commit too eagerly you might commit corrupted state if you commit too conservatively you eat performance and storage penalties what do you do if you discover that there is corrupted state in the middle of your redo log and you want some of the critical state that comes after it you need some way to dig the corruption out of the middle and save the rest my dissertation solves this problem but you have to re write everything in my programming language just doing this at all imposes substantial performance penalties i love vmware and use it every day the best NUMBER i ever spent on software but it is not very fast my proposed solution to the first two problems you mention is to be less ambitious the idea is that you never commit instead you simply revert to base state on reboot ah in that case you can use something considerably less powerful than vmware all you need is a machine configured to boot from cd rom and use a ram disk for scratch space numerous linux distros are available that let you boot a stateless but functional system from cd rom obviously you can t do this with partitions that accrue important state e g a partition that stores database table data but if you do want some state to persist then you need a mountable writable partition to protect it you need some kind of access control management to decide who can do what to the writable partition blah blah blah and before you know it the security problem starts to look just like it does for conventional servers simple approxmation to this make usr a separate partion and mount it read only the good news attackers that want to trojan your software have to reboot at least the bad news administrators that want to update your software have to reboot at least crispin crispin cowan ph d chief scientist wirex URL security hardened linux distribution URL available for purchase URL ,0
 original message from crispin cowan mailto crispin wirex com sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to ben mord cc webappsec securityfocus com secprog securityfocus subject re use of base image delta image for automated recovery from attacks ben mord wrote original message from crispin cowan mailto crispin wirex com sent wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to ben mord cc webappsec securityfocus com secprog securityfocus subject re use of base image delta image for automated recovery from attacks ben mord wrote my proposed solution to the first two problems you mention is to be less ambitious the idea is that you never commit instead you simply revert to base state on reboot ah in that case you can use something considerably less powerful than vmware all you need is a machine configured to boot from cd rom and use a ram disk for scratch space numerous linux distros are available that let you boot a stateless but functional system from cd rom but ram is expensive and the directory structures of many systems e g windows are not sufficiently organized and standardized to make this combination of bootable cds and ram drives practical even if you are fortunate enough to be using linux or another fhs compliant nix you still can t fit a lot on a cd its not unusual today to have gigabytes of static multimedia content on the web server this particular problem can be alleviated somewhat by using dvds but this is a temporary solution at best which will become outdated quickly as our data requirements grow and hard drives become cheaper obviously you can t do this with partitions that accrue important state e g a partition that stores database table data but if you do want some state to persist then you need a mountable writable partition to protect it you need some kind of access control management to decide who can do what to the writable partition blah blah blah and before you know it the security problem starts to look just like it does for conventional servers right this is why you would consolidate all state of any long term significance on just a couple partitions and why you would not put static application code on these changeable partitions fortunately most large client server application physical architectures do this anyhow because these are two fundamentally different kinds of state with two very different sets of administrative security raid and backup requirements people also tend to do this anyhow because layered logical architectures are popular with the gui at one end business logic in the middle and persistence services at the other this logical architecture maps naturally to a physical architecture that has a static web server a static application server and a database server that has static and changeable partitions i use the word static versus changeable instead of writeable versus unwritable because the unchangeable partitions might be written to for temporary swap space who knows what windows does internally my point is that there should be a market out there for a hardware raid device that can split designated partitions into a permanent base image partition and a temporary delta image partition that has some simple but solid security measures to prevent the unauthorized remote modification of base images and that can be configured to clear the delta image when the server is rebooted if some vendor wished to implement this they could then market this as a mechanism to help frustrate broad classes of attack that rely on the permanent modification of system or application files via buffer overflows platform and middleware bugs etc the prevention of unauthorized modification of application data of course would not be addressed by this particular product but there are many other techniques out there to defend application data but those techniques all assume that your system itself has not been compromised at a lower level which is where this product could help i would have to think that these features would be relatively easy for a hardware raid vendor to implement i m just guessing of course with no knowledge of how hardware raid works internally if anyone knows of such a product i d love to hear about it ben ,0
hi on wed NUMBER sep NUMBER yannick gingras wrote btw thanks for all of you who provided interestiong insight i m playing with gdb s dissassembler now but i don t think it s what a typical cracker would use any hints on unix cracking tools there s also an objdump program and biew hex viewer disassembler a good starting point to search is URL however cracking and reverse engineering tools are not so ubiquitous on unix as they are on windows platform for two main reasons NUMBER the main customers of commercial unices solaris hp ux aix sco are respectable companies they are ready to pay big bucks for software they need the reputation matters NUMBER most software for free and open source unices like linux and xbsd this software often may be used on commercial unices as well is well free and open source regards artem artem frolov frolov ispras ru software engineer system administrator institute for system programming russian academy of sciences tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ext NUMBER cellular NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cNUMBER NUMBER ca NUMBER NUMBERa NUMBER NUMBER dNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER df NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERd NUMBERa aNUMBER NUMBER NUMBERb NUMBER basic definitions of science if it s green or wiggles it s biology if it stinks it s chemistry if it doesn t work it s physics ,0
 ben mord said ah in that case you can use something considerably less powerful than vmware all you need is a machine configured to boot from cd rom and use a ram disk for scratch space numerous linux distros are available that let you boot a stateless but functional system from cd rom but ram is expensive and the directory structures of many systems e g windows are not sufficiently organized and standardized to make this combination of bootable cds and ram drives practical even if you are fortunate enough to be using linux or another fhs compliant nix you still can t fit a lot on a cd its not unusual today to have gigabytes of static multimedia content on the web server this particular problem can be alleviated somewhat by using dvds but this is a temporary solution at best which will become outdated quickly as our data requirements grow and hard drives become cheaper so just write protect the hard disk for partitions that are static i seem to recall an article on this early NUMBER s byte magazine perhaps for bbs systems or for testing unknown perhaps trojan horse software george george dinwiddie gdinwiddie URL the gods do not deduct from man s allotted span those hours spent in sailing URL ,0
on NUMBER sep NUMBER richard bartlett wrote richard i have a customer who is developing some printer driver code to allow custom driver settings n up booklet duplex etc to be saved up to the server to be retrieved by other users the data is being written by a printer driver using the logged on users authentication to a registry key hklm system currentcontrolset control print environments windows nt xNUMBER drivers version NUMBER driver name custom key subkey let me get this straight a registry key is loaded from the server onto the client workstations who can modify it then write it back onto the server s own registry which is not going to use it the question is what are the security risks of allowing users to write to this key the data is string data in the form of delimited numeric values this data is then retrieved by capable printer drivers and interpreted the risks as i see it are twofold NUMBER the risks of a compromise to the server using this registry key i think this is unlikeley as the server itself does not use this data only client pc s do unless someone knows a way to travel out of a hive up the registry bypassing the permissions set using regedtNUMBER what is the reason to write a registry key to a server if the server itself is not using it i don t think you should worry too much about someone travelling out of the hive but again i m curious as to how the driver actually modifies the keys on the server NUMBER the risks of a compromise to the client far more likely this would probably be by a malformed or extremely long string in the key value which would presumably lead to either dos or system compromise by buffer overflow on the client system and if the client writes the key back onto the server yes there s wide open for something nasty here two other things spring to mind NUMBER if anyone can modify the key how do you make sure that two users are not overwriting the same key thereby causing undesirable effects NUMBER if anyone have permissions to write to the key and below anyone can create thousands of extra keys under this key thereby filling up the registry the result of such a thing is obvious if i got this all wrong i d be happy that you clarify a bit more and tell me where i might have misunderstood med venlig hilsen best regards allan jensen si hoc signum legere potes operis boni in rebus latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes ,0
bryan feir mailto bryan sgl crestech ca wrote of course once one player key was broken dealing with the rest became a known plaintext attack and the rest of the player keys went down like a row of dominos the actual follow up to the xing player break was more interesting than that the mere knowledge of known plaintext a corresponding input and output does not necessarily make it trivial to break a properly designed systems and or algorithm the primary reason it was easy for css is because the css key was only NUMBER bits and thereby easy to break with exhaustive search attacks it was only NUMBER bits speculated because of a misunderstanding of the government cryptography export rules at the time even more interesting to me at least was that soon after the xing player break people started studying the css algorithm itself they rapidly found serious design flaws which left the NUMBER bit css algorithm with an actual strength of around NUMBER bits from memory and new attacks might have further reduced the strength this is another great example showing why proprietary cryptography algorithms should be viewed with the greatest of suspicion on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER yannick gingras wrote this make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards they have an internal procession unit around NUMBERmhz can we consider them as trusted hardware yes and no you can put a limited amount of trust in a smart card there have been any number of very clever attacks against smartcards ross anderson in the uk has documented quite a few of these and smartcard manufactures are usually one step behind these attacks a well designed system assumes that a system smartcard will be completely compromised at some point giving an adversary all of the secrets contained in the smartcard the cryptography industry has developed a variety of techniques that can reduce the impact of a compromise including unique keys per smartcard and forward security techniques luciano rocha strange nsk yi org wrote the problem is that that piece of hardware is trustworthy but the rest of the pc isn t so a cracker just needs to simulate the lock smart card or peek at the executable after the lock has been deactivated going back to the original question once the encrypted material goes outside the trusted hardware it is impossible to unbreakably protect it there may be some mitigation steps you can take such as the sdmi watermarking but most schemes to date have been easily broken another consideration is the value of what you are trying to protect while there is no such thing as unbreakable adding more cost both in terms of price and hassle factor can greatly improve the protection since you are talking about the use of standard pc workstations i presume what you are trying to protect is not that valuable i m afraid most security measures don t come for free michael mckay director of software development mmckay URL information security systems services inc NUMBER stevens creek blvd cupertino ca NUMBER phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
on thursday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER michael mckay wrote on tue sep NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER yannick gingras wrote this make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards they have an internal procession unit around NUMBERmhz can we consider them as trusted hardware smartcards do not have fixed clock rates more often than not as the iso spec dictates that they are externally powered and clocked but smartcards used for security purposes usually javacards have built in crypto co processors that make clock rate irrelevant NUMBERmhz smartcards can often preform triple des faster than general purpose processors clocked at ten times the speed that said clock rate has nothing with how trustworthy a card is as michael pointed out there s something of an arms race between manufacturers and attackers which has nothing to do with clock rate and time and time again what we ve seen is that it s not a question of is it secure it s a question of who is it secure from and for how long security is rarely a question of absolutes despite the often boolean nature of a break rather it s a question of assessing quantifying and managing risk smartcards are designed to address threats in which the cost of protection cannot exceed the NUMBER NUMBER range depending on the application as whether or not they are trusted hardware the question again revolves around attacker and timeframe one might expect a bored undergrad ee student to have more trouble revealing the contents of a pilfered smartcard than say a governtment intelligence service if your goal is to keep undergrad ees from perpetrating mass fraud in the caffeteria then a smartcard is likely trustworthy enough for your application if your aim is to protect icbm launch codes then it s probably the wrong tool in either application a risk cost ratio must justify the use of the protection measure in question alex russell alex URL alex URL ,0
reply to the mail from ben mord bmord icon nicholson com hi hello snipped for brevity this concept could also be applied to the application servers and even the database server partitions except for those partitions which contain the table data files of course although the data might just be the information that needs protecting does anyone do this already or is this a new concept i ve seen this implemented for a shell server although they chose to have their root on a cd wr in a cd r drive which meant that even when compromised it was only possible to examine other users data afair emember they just swapped cd s when a root exploit was found thanks for any opinions np blaze your trail redhat i am become shiva destroyer of worlds ,0
hi everybody i m writing a web application in java tomcat jsp servlets database access with postgresql this will be released under the gpl and will eventually be useful as a framework for other web applications the application main focus is e commerce but not limited to that i would like to use some form of cryptography to protect data on the database but i have some problem figuring out the right approach above all how to store passwords and keys in a shared web server a problem that i was unable to solve is how to store keys for encryption decryption the api that i m using is the jca jdkNUMBER NUMBER x and the methods of saving generated keys in keystores fails always i can serialize the object and store in the database but this is not the most secure approach this key is needed to decrypt data in the database but the database is accessible from the web application assuming that i can find a good and secure place where to store the database password i can use a different database with different user argh to complex and doesn t really solve the problem where i can found good documentation about this topic there is another approach that i would share with the list something i thought that can be of bit interest but probabily wrong and insecure after all i m a real beginner in secure programming and i m here to learn methods and technics first of all i need a secure way to keep database passwords secure so i have to keep them separate from the main server the right approach could be using a small java bean application that run as normal user not tomcat so it is not shared with other web services or worst the nobody user that has no shell login but has a default home directory or a place where it can hold passwords and keys the web application could then open an ssl connection could be done in the init method at server startup to get database passwords the small bean could check via code signature rmi whatever else that the source is the right one and handle all the database connections or give the db connection password to the main web application in this way we solve the problem of keeping the keys and passwords in shared directories and also an attacker should get root bean user account to read data this is not perfect and works only if your provider gives the opportunity to configure a separated java application that means really another server running in the background any suggestions thank you mario torre please avoid sending me word or powerpoint attachments see URL ,0
on NUMBER september NUMBER tim peters said greg ward is currently capturing a stream coming into URL and i hope we can get a more modern and cleaner test set out of that not yet still working on the required config changes but i have a cunning plan but if that stream contains any private email it may not be ethically possible to make that available it will part of my cunning plan involves something like this if folder accepted ie not suspected junk mail if len recipients NUMBER and recipients NUMBER in guido URL barry URL folder personal if you and guido barry et al prefer i could change that last statement to folder none so the mail won t be saved at all i might also add a and sender doesn t look like bounce request admin clause to that if statement can you think of anyplace to get a large shareable ham sample apart from a public mailing list everyone s eager to share their spam but spam is so much alike in so many ways that s the easy half of the data collection problem i believe the spamassassin maintainers have a scheme whereby the corpus of non spam is distributed ie several people have bodies of non spam that they use for collectively evolving the sa score set if that sounds vague it matches my level of understanding greg greg ward gward python net URL reality is for people who can t handle science fiction ,0
 i believe the spamassassin maintainers have a scheme whereby the corpus of non spam is distributed ie several people have bodies of non spam that they use for collectively evolving the sa score set if that sounds vague it matches my level of understanding see if you can get a hold of that so we can do a level playing field competition guido van rossum home page URL ,0
on NUMBER september NUMBER anthony baxter said a snippet hopefully not enough to trigger the spam filters as an aside one of the best ways to dodge spamassassin is by having an in reply to header most list traffic should meet this criterion alternately i can whitelist mail to spambayes URL that ll work until spammers get ahold of the list address which usually seems to take a few months greg greg ward gward python net URL gee i feel kind of light in the head now knowing i can t make my satellite dish payments ,0
 tp tim peters tim one comcast net writes any thought to wrapping up your spam and ham test sets for inclusion w the spambayes project tp i gave it all the thought it deserved wink it would be tp wonderful to get several people cranking on the same test tp data and i m all in favor of that otoh my data subtree tp currently has more than NUMBER NUMBER files slobbering over NUMBER tp million bytes even if i had a place to put that much stuff tp i m not sure my isp would let me email it in one msg wink check it into the spambayes project sf s disks are cheap wink barry ,0
 check it into the spambayes project sf s disks are cheap wink perhaps more useful would be if tim could check in the pickle s generated by one of his training runs so that others can see how tim s training data performs against their own corpora this could also be the starting point for a self contained distribution you ve got to start with something and training with python list data seems just as good as anything else guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 gw greg ward gward python net writes gw if you and guido barry et al prefer i could change that gw last statement to folder none so the mail won t be saved gw at all i don t care if the mail is foldered on URL but personal messages regardless of who they re for shouldn t be part of the public spambayes repository unless specifically approved by both the recipient and sender note also that we are much more liberal about URL mailing list traffic than most folks read list managers for any length of time and you ll find that there are a lot of people who assert strict copyright over their collections are very protective of their traffic and got really pissed when gmane just started gatewaying their messages without asking which might be an appropriate for their lists but not for ours don t think i m suggesting we do the same i like our laissez faire approach but for personal email we should be more careful barry ,0
quite independently from testing and tuning the algorithm i d like to think about deployment eventually individuals and postmasters should be able to download a spambayes software distribution answer a few configuration questions about their mail setup training and false positives and install it as a filter a more modest initial goal might be the production of a tool that can easily be used by individuals since we re more likely to find individuals willing to risk this than postmasters there are many ways to do this some ideas a program that acts both as a pop client and a pop server you configure it by telling it about your real pop servers you then point your mail reader to the pop server at localhost when it receives a connection it connects to the remote pop servers reads your mail and gives you only the non spam to train it you d only need to send it the false negatives somehow it can assume that anything is ham that you don t say is spam within NUMBER hours a server with a custom protocol that you send a copy of a message and that answers spam or ham then you have a little program that is invoked e g by procmail that talks to the server the server exists so that it doesn t have to load the pickle with the scoring database for each message i don t know how big that pickle would be maybe loading it each time is fine or maybe marshalling your idea here takers how is esr s bogofilter packaged spamassassin the perl bayes filter advertised on slashdot guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 gvr guido van rossum guido python org writes gvr perhaps more useful would be if tim could check in the gvr pickle s generated by one of his training runs so that gvr others can see how tim s training data performs against their gvr own corpora he could do that too barry ,0
on NUMBER sep NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER guido van rossum wrote your mail and gives you only the non spam to train it you d only need to send it the false negatives somehow it can assume that anything is ham that you don t say is spam within NUMBER hours i have folks who leave their email programs running NUMBER hours a day constantly polling for mail if they go away for a long weekend lots of friday night spam will become ham on sunday night friday night seems to be the most popular time your idea here ultimately i d like to see tight integration into the most popular email clients as a stop gap to the auto ham how about adding an imap server with a spam and deleted ham folder most email clients can handle imap users should be able to quickly move spam into the spam folder instead of deleting messages or by reprogramming the delete function they can quickly move ham into the ham folder in either case the message would be processed and then destroyed brad clements bkc URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax aol im bkclements ,0
 tim otoh my data subtree currently has more than NUMBER NUMBER files slobbering over NUMBER million bytes even if i had a place to put that much stuff i m not sure my isp would let me email it in one msg wink skip do you have a dialup or something more modern wink much more modern a cable modem with a small upload rate cap there s a reason the less modern uncapped home went out of business wink NUMBERmb of messages zipped would probably compress pretty well under NUMBERmb i d guess with all the similarity in the headers and such you could zip each of the NUMBER sets individually and upload them somewhere i suppose this could finish over the course of an afternoon now where s somewhere i expect we ll eventually collect several datasets sourceforge isn t a good place for it they expect projects to distribute relatively small code files and complain if even those get big how about random sampling lots of public mailing lists via gmane or something similar manually cleaning it distributing that load over a number of people and then relying on your clever code and your rebalancing script to help further cleanse it what then are we training the classifier to do graham s scoring scheme is based on an assumption that the ham vs spam task is easy and half of that is due to that the ham has a lot in common it was an experiment to apply his scheme to all the comp lang python traffic which is a lot broader than he had in mind URL has long had a generous definition of on topic wink i don t expect good things to come of making it ever broader unless your goal is to investigate just how broad it can be made before it breaks down the problem with the ham is it tends to be much more tied to one person not just intimate but unique than the spam which is a feature from graham s pov the more clues the better this smoking guns only approach should work i save all incoming email for ten days gzipped mbox format before it rolls over and disappears at any one time i think i have about NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER messages most of it isn t terribly personal which i would cull before passing along anyway and much of it is machine generated so would be of marginal use finally it s all ham n spam mixed together do we call that an omelette or a denny s grand slam unless you re volunteering to clean it tag it package it and distribute it i d call it irrelevant wink ,0
 your mail and gives you only the non spam to train it you d only need to send it the false negatives somehow it can assume that anything is ham that you don t say is spam within NUMBER hours i have folks who leave their email programs running NUMBER hours a day constantly polling for mail if they go away for a long weekend lots of friday night spam will become ham on sunday night friday night seems to be the most popular time so we ll make this a config parameter your idea here ultimately i d like to see tight integration into the most popular email clients as a stop gap to the auto ham what s an auto ham how about adding an imap server with a spam and deleted ham folder most email clients can handle imap users should be able to quickly move spam into the spam folder i personally don t think imap has a bright future but for people who do use it that s certainly a good approach instead of deleting messages or by reprogramming the delete function they can quickly move ham into the ham folder yes guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 anthony baxter i ve got a test set here that s the last NUMBER and a bit years email to info URL and info URL it s a really ugly set of NUMBER NUMBER messages currently broken into NUMBER NUMBER spam NUMBER NUMBER ham NUMBER NUMBER currently unclassified these addresses are all over the NUMBER some different ekit ekno isiconnect websites so they get a lot of spam as well as the usual spam it also has customers complaining about credit card charges it has people interested in the service and asking questions about long distance rates c c c lots and lots of commercial speech in other words stuff that sa gets pretty badly wrong can this corpus be shared i suppose not i m currently mangling it by feeding all parts text html whatever else into the filters as well as both a selected number of headers to from content type x mailer and also a list of header count_of_header this is showing up some nice stuff e g the x uidl that stoopid spammers blindly copy into their messages if we ever wink have a shared corpus an easy refactoring of timtest should allow to plug in different tokenizers i ve only made three changes to graham s algorithm so far well i ve made dozens only three survived testing as proven winners all the rest has been refining the tokenization to provide better clues i did have received in there but it s out for the moment as it causes rates to drop that s ambiguous accuracy rates or error rates ham or spam rates i m also stripping out html tags except for href and src there s so so much goodness in them note that i m only keeping the contents of the attributes mining embedded http https ftp thingies cut the false negative rate in half in my tests not keying off href just scanning for anything that looked like one that was the single biggest f n improvement i ve seen it didn t change the false positive rate so you know whether src added additional power or did you do both at once ,0
 guido takers how is esr s bogofilter packaged spamassassin the guido perl bayes filter advertised on slashdot dunno about the other tools but spamassassin is a breeze to incorporate into a procmail environment lots of people use it in many other ways for performance reasons many people run a spamd process and then invoke a small c program called spamc which shoots the message over to spamd and passes the result back out i think spambayes in incremental mode is probably fast enough to not require such tricks though i would consider changing the pickle to an anydbm file basic procmail usage goes something like this NUMBERfw spamassassin p NUMBER x spam status yes spam which just says run spamassassin p reinjecting its output into the processing stream if the resulting mail has a header which begins x spam status yes toss it into the folder indicated by the variable spam spamassassin also adds other headers as well which give you more detail about how its tests fared i d like to see spambayes operate in at least this way do its thing then return a message to stdout with a modified set of headers which further processing downstream can key on skip ,0
did you want this on the list i m replying to the list on NUMBER sep NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER guido van rossum wrote what s an auto ham automatically marking something as ham after a given timeout regardless of how long that timeout is someone is going to forget to submit the message back as spam how many spams as hams can be accepted before the f n rate gets unacceptable how about adding an imap server with a spam and deleted ham folder most email clients can handle imap users should be able to quickly move spam into the spam folder i personally don t think imap has a bright future but for people who do use it that s certainly a good approach instead of deleting messages or by reprogramming the delete function they can quickly move ham into the ham folder yes i view imap as a stop gap measure until tighter integration with various email clients can be achieved i still feel it s better to require classification feedback from the recipient rather than make any assumptions after some period of time passes but this is an end user issue and we re still at the algorithm stage brad clements bkc URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax aol im bkclements ,0
 what s an auto ham automatically marking something as ham after a given timeout regardless of how long that timeout is someone is going to forget to submit the message back as spam ok here s a refinement assuming very little spam comes through we only need to pick a small percentage of ham received as new training ham to match the new training spam the program could randomly select a sufficient number of saved non spam msgs and ask the user to validate this selection you could do this once a day or week config parameter how many spams as hams can be accepted before the f n rate gets unacceptable config parameter i view imap as a stop gap measure until tighter integration with various email clients can be achieved i still feel it s better to require classification feedback from the recipient rather than make any assumptions after some period of time passes but this is an end user issue and we re still at the algorithm stage i m trying to think about the end user issues because i have nothing to contribute to the algorithm at this point for deployment we need both guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 dunno about the other tools but spamassassin is a breeze to incorporate into a procmail environment lots of people use it in many other ways for performance reasons many people run a spamd process and then invoke a small c program called spamc which shoots the message over to spamd and passes the result back out i think spambayes in incremental mode is probably fast enough to not require such tricks though i would consider changing the pickle to an anydbm file basic procmail usage goes something like this NUMBERfw spamassassin p NUMBER x spam status yes spam which just says run spamassassin p reinjecting its output into the processing stream if the resulting mail has a header which begins x spam status yes toss it into the folder indicated by the variable spam spamassassin also adds other headers as well which give you more detail about how its tests fared i d like to see spambayes operate in at least this way do its thing then return a message to stdout with a modified set of headers which further processing downstream can key on do you feel capable of writing such a tool it doesn t look too hard guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 ultimately i d like to see tight integration into the most popular email clients the advantage of using a kitchen sink umm make that highly programmable editor email package like emacs vm is that you can twiddle your key bindings and write a little elisp or pymacs glue to toss messages in the right direction spam or ham for this spambayes would have to operate in an incremental fashion when fed a single ham or spam message no i have no idea what an auto ham is a pig run over by a car perhaps give a dog a bone ly y rs skip ,0
 dunno about the other tools but spamassassin is a breeze spamassassin also adds other headers as well which give you more detail guido do you feel capable of writing such a tool it doesn t look too guido hard sure but at the moment i have to stop reading email for a few hours and do some real work i ll see if i can modify URL suitably over the weekend skip ,0
guido van rossum wrote i personally don t think imap has a bright future but for people who do use it that s certainly a good approach writing an imap server is a non trivial task the specification is huge and clients do all kinds of weird stuff pop is very easy in comparison perhaps you could forward messages to a special address or save them in a special folder to mark them as false negatives alternatively perhaps there could be a separate protocol and client that could be used to review additions to the training set each day a few random spam and ham messages could be grabbed as candidates someone would periodically startup the client review the candidates reclassify or remove any messages they don t like and add them to the training set neil ,0
 ns neil schemenauer nas python ca writes ns writing an imap server is a non trivial task that s what i ve been told by everyone i ve talked to who s actually tried to write one ns alternatively perhaps there could be a separate protocol and ns client that could be used to review additions to the training ns set each day a few random spam and ham messages could be ns grabbed as candidates someone would periodically startup the ns client review the candidates reclassify or remove any ns messages they don t like and add them to the training set i think people will be much more motivated to report spam than ham i like the general approach that copies of random messages will be sequestered for some period of time before they re assumed to be ham matched with a simple spam reporting scheme this could keep the training up to date with little effort i ve sketched out an approach a listserver like mailman could do along these lines and if i get some free time i ll hack something together i like the idea of a pop proxy which is classifying messages as they re pulled from the server the easiest way for such a beast to be notified of spam might be to simply save the spam in a special folder or file that the pop proxy would periodically consult barry ,0
on fri NUMBER sep NUMBER guido van rossum wrote quite independently from testing and tuning the algorithm i d like to think about deployment eventually individuals and postmasters should be able to download a spambayes software distribution answer a few configuration questions about their mail setup training and false positives and install it as a filter a more modest initial goal might be the production of a tool that can easily be used by individuals since we re more likely to find individuals willing to risk this than postmasters my impression is that a pre collected corpus would not fit most individuals very well but each individual or group should collect their own corpus one problem that comes upp immediately individuals are lazy if i currently get NUMBER spam and NUMBER ham a day and i ll have to press the delete button once for each spam i ll be happy to press the spam button instead however if in addition have to press a ham button for each ham it starts to look much less like a win to me add the time to install and setup the whole machinery and i ll just keep hitting delete the suggestions so far have been to hook something on the delete action that adds a message to the ham corpus i see two problems with this the ham will be a bit skewed mail that i keep around without deleting will not be counted secondly if i by force of habit happen to press the delete key instead of the spam key i ll end up with spam in the ham anyways i would like to look for a way to deal with spam in the ham the obvious thing to do is to trigger on the spam button and at that time look for messages similar to the deleted one in the ham corpus and simply remove them to do this we need a way to compare two word count histograms to see how similar they are any ideas also i personally would prefer to not see the spam at all if they get bounced preferably already in the smtp false positives become the senders problem to rewrite to remove the spam smell in a well tuned system then there spam corpus will be much smaller than the ham corpus so it would be possible to be slightly over agressive when clearing potential spam from the ham corpus this should make it easier to keep it clean having a good way to remove spam from the ham corpus there s less need to worry about it getting there by mistake and we might as well simply add all messages to the ham corpus that didn t get deleted by the spam filtering it might also be useful to have a way to remove messages from the spam corpus in case of user ooops paul ,0
 i guess mua level filtering is just a fallback for people who don t have NUMBER a burning all consuming hatred of junk mail NUMBER root access to all mail servers they rely on and NUMBER the ability and inclination to install an mta with every bell and whistle tweaked to keep out junk mail sure but for most people changing their company s or isp s server requires years of lobbying while they have total and immediate control over their own mua that said i agree that we should offer a good solution to postmasters and i trust that your ideas are right on the mark guido van rossum home page URL ,0
i think one step towards deployment is creating a re usable tokenizer for mail messages the current codebase doesn t expose an easy to use or easy to customize tokenizer the timtest module seems to contain an enormous body of practical knowledge about how to parse mail messages but the module wasn t designed for re use i d like to see a module that can take a single message or a collection of messages and tokenize each one i d like to see the tokenize by customizable too tim had to exclude some headers from his test data because there were particular biases in the test data if other people have test data without those biases they ought to be able to customize the tokenizer to include them or exclude others jeremy ,0
 barry a warsaw gives answers and asks questions here s the code that produced the header tokens xNUMBERn for x in msg keys xNUMBERn x xNUMBERn get x NUMBER NUMBER for x in xNUMBERn items yield header s d x some responses NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header x mailman version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header list id NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header x beenthere NUMBER these three are definitely mm artifacts although the second one could be inserted by other list management software it s described in an rfc since all the ham came from mailman and only NUMBER spam had it it s quite safe to assume then that i should ignore these for now NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header newsgroups NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header xref NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header path NUMBER these aren t mm artifacts but are byproducts of gating a message off of an nntp feed some of the other nntp headers are similar but i won t point them out below i should ignore these too then NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header list unsubscribe NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header list subscribe NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header list post NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header list help NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header list archive NUMBER rfc recommended generic listserve headers that mm injects ditto so why do you get two entries for this one NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header received NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header received NUMBER read the code wink the first line counts msgs that had NUMBER instances of a received header and the second counts msgs that had NUMBER instances i expect this is a good clue the more indirect the mail path the more of those thingies we ll see and if you re posting from a spam trailer park in tasmania you may well need to travel thru more machines note that header names are case insensitive so this one s no different than mime version similarly other headers in your list ignoring case here may or may not help that s for experiment to decide it s plausible that case is significant if e g a particular spam mailing package generates unusual case or a particular clueless spammer misconfigures his package NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header precedence NUMBER could be mailman or not this header is supposed to tell other automated software that this message was automated e g a replybot should ignore any message with a precedence bulk junk list rule of thumb if mailman inserts a thing i should ignore it or better i should stop trying to out think the flaws in the test data and get better test data instead NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header heh i sucked out all the wordinfo keys that began with header the last line there was probably due to unrelated instances of the string header in message bodies harder to guess about the first line some headers of course are totally unreliable as to their origin i m thinking stuff like mime version content type to from etc etc everyone sticks those in the brilliance of anthony s just count them scheme is that it requires no thought so can t be fooled wink header lines that are evenly distributed across spam and ham will turn out to be worthless indicators prob near NUMBER NUMBER so do no harm ,0
 anthony baxter the other thing on my todo list probably tonight s tram ride home is to add all headers from non text parts of multipart messages if nothing else it ll pick up most virus email real quick see the checkin comments for URL last night adding this code gave a major reduction in the false negative rate def crack_content_xyz msg x msg get_type if x is not none yield content type x lower x msg get_param type if x is not none yield content type type x lower for x in msg get_charsets none if x is not none yield charset x lower x msg get content disposition if x is not none yield content disposition x lower fname msg get_filename if fname is not none for x in fname lower split for y in x split yield filename y x msg get content transfer encoding if x is not none yield content transfer encoding x lower t for x in msg walk for w in crack_content_xyz x yield t w t i suspect most of that stuff didn t make any difference but i put it all in as one blob so don t know which parts did and didn t help ,0
 tp a false positive really has to work hard then eh the long tp quote of a nigerian scam letter is one of the two that made tp it and spamprob looked at all this stuff before deciding it tp was spam here s an interesting thing to test discriminate words differently if they are on a line that starts with or to catch styles like above that the first occurance on a line of or is to eliminate html then again it may not be worth trying to un false positive that nigerian scam quote barry ,0
so then guido van rossum guido python org is all like basic procmail usage goes something like this NUMBERfw spamassassin p NUMBER x spam status yes spam do you feel capable of writing such a tool it doesn t look too hard not to beat a dead horse but that s exactly what my spamcan package did for those just tuning in spamcan is a thingy i wrote before i knew about tim co s work on this crazy stuff you can download it from URL but i m not going to work on it anymore i m currently writing a new one based on classifier and timtest s booty kicking tokenizer i ll probably have something soon like maybe half an hour and no it s not too hard the hard part is storing the data somewhere i don t want to use zodb as i d like something a person can just drop in with a default python install so anydbm is looking like my best option i already have a setup like this using xavier leroy s spamoracle which does the same sort of thing you call it from procmail it adds a new header and then you can filter on that header really easy here s how i envision this working everybody gets four new mailboxes train eggs train spam trained eggs trained spam you copy all your spam and eggs into the train boxes as you get it how frequently you do this would be up to you but you d get better results if you did it more often and you d be wise to always copy over anything which was misclassified then every night the spam fairy swoops down and reads through your folders learning about what sorts of things you think are eggs and what sorts of things are spam after she s done she moves your mail into the trained folders this would work for anybody using imap on a unix box or folks who read their mail right off the server i ve spoken with some fellows at work about exchange and they seem to beleive that exchange exports appropriate functionality to implement a spam fairy as well advanced users could stay ahead of the game by reprogramming their mail client to bind the key s to move to train spam and h to move to train eggs eventually if enough people used this sort of thing it d start showing up in mail clients that s the delete as spam button paul graham was talking about the hormel company might not think well of using the word ham as the opposite of spam and they ve been amazingly cool about the use of their product name for things thus far so i propose we start calling non spam something more innocuous and more monty pythonic such as eggs neale ,0
 jeremy hylton i think one step towards deployment is creating a re usable tokenizer for mail messages the current codebase doesn t expose an easy to use or easy to customize tokenizer tokenize couldn t be easier to use it takes a string argument and produces a stream of tokens whether via explicit list or generator or tuple or doesn t matter all the tokenize functions in URL and URL are freely interchangeable this way note that we have no evidence to support that a customizable tokenizer would do any good or if it would in which ways customization could be helpful that s a research issue on which no work has been done the timtest module seems to contain an enormous body of practical knowledge about how to parse mail messages but the module wasn t designed for re use that s partly a failure of imagination wink splitting out all knowledge of tokenization is just a large block cut and paste there it s done change the from timtoken import tokenize at the top to use any other tokenizer now if you want to make it easier still feel free to check in something better i d like to see a module that can take a single message or a collection of messages and tokenize each one the msg and msgstream classes in URL are a start at that but it s hard to do anything truly useful here when people use all sorts of different physical representations for email msgs mboxes in various formats one file per folder one file per msg skip s gzipped gimmick if you re a python coder wink you should find it very easy to change the guts of msg and msgstream to handle your peculiar scheme defining interfaces for these guys should be done i d like to see the tokenize by customizable too tim had to exclude some headers from his test data because there were particular biases in the test data if other people have test data without those biases they ought to be able to customize the tokenizer to include them or exclude others this sounds like a bottomless pit to me and there s no easier way to customize than to edit the code as readme txt still says though massive refactoring would help hop to it ,0
i think that when considering deployment a solution that supports all python platforms and not just the l unix crowd is desirable mac and pc users are more apt to be using a commercial mua that s unlikely to offer hooking ability at least not easily as mentioned elsewhere even l unix users may find an mua solution easier to use then getting it added to their mta sysops make programmers look like flaming liberals my notion of a solution for windows outlook has been as guido described a client server client side does popNUMBER imap mapi fetching of which i m only going to implement popNUMBER initially potentially on several hosts spamhams the incoming mail and puts it into one file per message qmail style the mua accesses this ethunk as a server to obtain all the ham spam is retained in the ethunk and a simple viewer would be used for manual oversight on the spam for ultimate rejection and training of spam filter and the ham will go forward after being used for training on the next mua fetch ethunk would sit on a timer for always online users but i am not clear on how to support dialup users with this scheme outbound mail would use a direct path from the mua to the mta hopefully all muas can split the host fetch send url s imo end users are likely to be more intested in n way classification if this is available the simple viewer could be enhanced to support viewing via folders and at least for me the outlook nightmare is over i would use this as my only mua n b according to my recent readings the best n way classifier uses something called a support vector machine svm which is NUMBER NUMBER more accurate then naive bayes nb i wonder if the focus of spambayes ought not to be a classifier that leaves the fetching and feeding of messages to auxillary code that way it could be dropped into whatever harness that suited the user s situation david leblanc seattle wa usa ,0
 i wonder if the focus of spambayes ought not to be a classifier that leaves the fetching and feeding of messages to auxillary code that way it could be dropped into whatever harness that suited the user s situation i see no reason to restrict the project to developing the classifier and leave the deployment to others attempts at deployment in the real world will surely provide additional feedback for the classifier guido van rossum home page URL ,0
on NUMBER september NUMBER tim peters said note that header names are case insensitive so this one s no different than mime version similarly other headers in your list ignoring case here may or may not help that s for experiment to decide it s plausible that case is significant if e g a particular spam mailing package generates unusual case or a particular clueless spammer misconfigures his package case of headers is definitely helpful spamassassin has a rule for it if you have headers like date or subject you get a few more points greg greg ward gward python net URL god is omnipotent omniscient and omnibenevolent it says so right here on the label ,0
 greg in case it wasn t obvious i m a strong proponent of filtering greg junk mail as early as possible ie right after the smtp data greg command has been completed filtering spam at the mua just seems greg stupid to me by the time it gets to me mua the spammer has greg already stolen my bandwidth the two problems i see with filtering that early are NUMBER everyone receiving email via that server will contribute ham to the stew making the bayesian classification less effective NUMBER given that there will be some false positives you absolutely have to put the mail somewhere you can t simply delete it i also don t like the tmda ish business of replying with a msg that says here s what you do to really get your message to me that puts an extra burden on my correspondents as an individual i would prefer you put spammish messages somewhere where i can review them not an anonymous sysadmin who i might not trust with my personal email nothing against you greg i personally prefer to manage this stuff at the user agent level bandwidth is a heck of a lot cheaper than my time skip ,0
on friday NUMBER september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip montanaro wrote greg in case it wasn t obvious i m a strong proponent of filtering greg junk mail as early as possible ie right after the smtp data greg command has been completed filtering spam at the mua just seems greg stupid to me by the time it gets to me mua the spammer has greg already stolen my bandwidth the two problems i see with filtering that early are NUMBER everyone receiving email via that server will contribute ham to the stew making the bayesian classification less effective NUMBER given that there will be some false positives you absolutely have to put the mail somewhere you can t simply delete it i also don t like the tmda ish business of replying with a msg that says here s what you do to really get your message to me that puts an extra burden on my correspondents as an individual i would prefer you put spammish messages somewhere where i can review them not an anonymous sysadmin who i might not trust with my personal email nothing against you greg i personally prefer to manage this stuff at the user agent level bandwidth is a heck of a lot cheaper than my time i see no reason why both approaches could and should not be used mta level filtering would just need to use a different corpus one that would contain illegal or otherwise commonly unapproved material for the group of people using that mta i m sure that such an approach would significantly reduce the mail traffic as a first step without giving false positives mua corpus would then be personally trained although i d like the option of down loadable corpuses and merge functionality harri ps just joined the list so pardon if my thoughts have been hashed through before ,0
 guido a program that acts both as a pop client and a pop server you configure it by telling it about your real pop servers you then point your mail reader to the pop server at localhost when it receives a connection it connects to the remote pop servers reads your mail and gives you only the non spam fyi i ll never trust such a scheme i have no tolerance for false positives and indeed do nothing to try to block spam on any of my email accounts now for that reason deliver all suspected spam to a spam folder instead and i d love it ,0
 a program that acts both as a pop client and a pop server you configure it by telling it about your real pop servers you then point your mail reader to the pop server at localhost when it receives a connection it connects to the remote pop servers reads your mail and gives you only the non spam fyi i ll never trust such a scheme i have no tolerance for false positives and indeed do nothing to try to block spam on any of my email accounts now for that reason deliver all suspected spam to a spam folder instead and i d love it another config parameter the filter could add a header file or a to the subject if you like that style guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 guido i don t know how big that pickle would be maybe loading it each time is fine or maybe marshalling my tests train on about NUMBER NUMBER msgs and a binary pickle of the database is approaching NUMBER million bytes i haven t done anything to try to reduce its size and know of some specific problem areas for example doing character NUMBER grams of long words containing high bit characters generates a lot of database entries and i suspect they re approximately worthless otoh adding in more headers will increase the size so let s call it NUMBER meg wink ,0
 guido takers how is esr s bogofilter packaged spamassassin the perl bayes filter advertised on slashdot wrt the last it s a small pile of windows exe files along with cygwinNUMBER dll the exes are cmdline programs one is a popNUMBER proxy if i currently have an email server named say URL with user name timmy then i change my email reader to say that my server is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and that my user name on that server is URL timmy in that way the proxy picks up both the real server and user names from what the mail reader tells it the user name is this is an n way classifier like ifile that way and all it does is insert a x text classification one_of_the_class_names_you_picked header into your email before passing it on to your mail reader the user then presumably fiddles their mail reader to look for such headers and do something about it and even outlook can handle that much wink the user is responsible for generating text files with appropriate examples of each class of message and for running the cmdline tools to train the classifier ,0
you missed the part that said that spam is kept in the ethunk and was viewable by a simple viewer for final disposition of course with outbloat you could fire up pythonwin and stuff the spam into the junk email folder but then you loose the ability to retrain on the user classified ham spam david leblanc seattle wa usa original message from spambayes bounces whisper oz net URL mailto spambayes bounces whisper oz net URL on behalf of tim peters sent friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to spambayes URL subject re spambayes deployment guido a program that acts both as a pop client and a pop server you configure it by telling it about your real pop servers you then point your mail reader to the pop server at localhost when it receives a connection it connects to the remote pop servers reads your mail and gives you only the non spam fyi i ll never trust such a scheme i have no tolerance for false positives and indeed do nothing to try to block spam on any of my email accounts now for that reason deliver all suspected spam to a spam folder instead and i d love it _______________________________________________ spambayes mailing list spambayes URL URL ,0
so then tim peters tim one comcast net is all like guido i don t know how big that pickle would be maybe loading it each time is fine or maybe marshalling my tests train on about NUMBER NUMBER msgs and a binary pickle of the database is approaching NUMBER million bytes my paltry NUMBER message training set makes a NUMBER NUMBERmb where NUMBERmb NUMBEReNUMBER bytes pickle URL which i just checked in will optionally let you write stuff out to a dbm file with that same message base the dbm file weighs in at a hefty NUMBER NUMBERmb it also takes longer to write using a database real NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs user NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs sys NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs using a pickle real NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs user NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs sys NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs this is on a piii at NUMBER NUMBERmhz i don t know what it s supposed to be NUMBER NUMBER is what proc cpuinfo says for comparison spamoracle currently the gold standard in my mind at least for speed on the same data blazes along real NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs user NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs sys NUMBERmNUMBER NUMBERs its data file which appears to be a marshalled hash is NUMBERkb however it s compiled o caml and it uses a much simpler tokenizing algorithm written with a lexical analyzer ocamllex so we ll never be able to outperform it it s something to keep in mind though i don t have statistics yet for scanning unknown messages actually i do and the database blows the pickle out of the water but it scores every word with NUMBER NUMBER so i m not sure that s a fair test in any case NUMBERmb per user is probably too large and NUMBERmb is questionable on the other hand my pickle compressed very well with gzip shrinking down to NUMBER NUMBERmb neale ,0
 tim my tests train on about NUMBER NUMBER msgs and a binary pickle of the database is approaching NUMBER million bytes that shrinks to under NUMBER million bytes though if i delete all the wordinfo records with spamprob exactly equal to unknown_spamprob such records aren t needed when scoring an unknown word gets a made up probability of unknown_spamprob such records are only needed for training i ve noted before that a scoring only database can be leaner in part the bloat is due to character NUMBER gram ing part due to that the database is brand new so has never been cleaned via clearjunk and part due to plain evil gremlins ,0
so then tim peters tim one comcast net is all like tim my tests train on about NUMBER NUMBER msgs and a binary pickle of the database is approaching NUMBER million bytes that shrinks to under NUMBER million bytes though if i delete all the wordinfo records with spamprob exactly equal to unknown_spamprob such records aren t needed when scoring an unknown word gets a made up probability of unknown_spamprob such records are only needed for training i ve noted before that a scoring only database can be leaner that s pretty good i wonder how much better you could do by using some custom pickler i just checked my little dbm file and found a lot of what i would call bloat import anydbm hammie d hammie persistentgrahambayes ham db db anydbm open ham db db neale len db neale ccopy_reg n_reconstructor nq xNUMBER cclassifier nwordinfo nq xNUMBERc__builtin__ nobject nq xNUMBERntrq xNUMBER ga xce xbc xfd xNUMBER xbbok xNUMBERk xNUMBERk xNUMBERg xeNUMBER xNUMBER xNUMBER xNUMBER xNUMBER xNUMBER xNUMBERtb NUMBER d wordinfo neale len d wordinfo neale wordinfo NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ignoring the fact that there are too many zeros in there the pickled version of that wordinfo object is over twice as large as the string representation so we could get a NUMBER decrease in size just by using the string representation instead of the pickle right something about that logic seems wrong to me but i can t see what it is maybe pickling is good for heterogeneous data types but every value of our big dictionary is going to have the same type so there s a ton of redundancy i guess that explains why it compressed so well neale ,0
 remove jeremy alum mit edu tim yuck it got two NUMBER NUMBER s from embedding your email address at the tim bottom here which suggests that tagging email addresses in to cc headers should be handled differently than in message bodies skip ,0
 remove jeremy alum mit edu tim yuck it got two NUMBER NUMBER s from embedding your email address at the tim bottom here which suggests that tagging email addresses in to cc headers should be handled differently than in message bodies i don t know whether it suggests that but they would be tagged differently in to cc if i were tagging them at all right now if i were tagging to addresses for example the tokens would look like to email addr mit instead of email addr mit as they appear when an email like thingie is found in the body whether email addresses should be stuck in as one blob or split up as they are now is something i haven t tested ,0
 URL this is the binary pickle of my classifier after training on my first spam ham corpora pair all records with spamprob unknown_spamprob have been purged it s in a zip file and is only half a meg jeremy it would be interesting if you tried that on your data the false negative rates across my other NUMBER test sets when run against this are NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 tp tim peters tim one comcast net writes the false positive rate is NUMBER NUMBER finally i had to scrub a bunch of previously unnoticed spam from my inbox both collections have about NUMBER messages tp does this mean you trained on about NUMBER of each the total collections are NUMBER messages i trained with NUMBER NUMBER messages tp can t guess you re in a good position to start adding more tp headers into the analysis though for example an easy start tp would be to uncomment the header counting lines in tokenize tp look for anthony likely the most valuable thing it s tp missing then is some special parsing and tagging of received tp headers i tried the anthony stuff but it didn t make any appreciable difference that i could see from staring at the false negative rate the numbers are big enough that a quick eyeball suffices then i tried a dirt simple tokenizer for the headers that tokenize the words in the header and emitted like this s s hdr word that worked too well the received and date headers helped the classifier discover that most of my spam is old and most of my ham is new so i tried a slightly more complex one that skipped received data and x from_ which all contained timestamps i also skipped the x vm headers that my mail reader added class mytokenizer tokenizer skip received NUMBER date NUMBER x from_ NUMBER def tokenize_headers self msg for k v in msg items k k lower if k in self skip or k startswith x vm continue for w in subject_word_re findall v for t in tokenize_word w yield s s k t this did moderately better the false negative rate is NUMBER NUMBER over the tests performed so far this is versus NUMBER NUMBER for the previous test run that used the timtest header tokenizer it s interesting to see that the best descriminators are all ham discriminators there s not a single spam indicator in the list most of the discriminators are header fields one thing to note is that the presence of mailman generated headers is a strong non spam indicator that matches my intuition i got an awful lot of mailman generated mail and those lists are pretty good at surpressing spam the other thing is that i get a lot of ham from people who use xemacs that s probably barry guido fred and me one final note it looks like many of the false positives are from people i ve never met with questions about shakespeare they often start with stuff like dear sir madam may i please take some of your precious time to ask you to help me to find a solution to a problem that is worrying me greatly i am old science student i guess that reads a lot like spam jeremy NUMBER hams NUMBER spams false positive NUMBER NUMBER false negative NUMBER NUMBER new false positives new false negatives best discriminators x mailscanner clean NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x spam status in_rep_to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER delivered to skip s NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mailer lucid NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mailer xemacs NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mailer patch NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mailer under NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mailscanner found NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cc zope com NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ll NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER references skip NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rossum NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x spam status skip s NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER van NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER zope NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER email addr zope NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from python org NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to jeremy NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER zope NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER list archive skip m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER list subscribe skip m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER list unsubscribe skip m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from zope com NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER return path zope com NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER wrote NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER jeremy NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER email addr python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mailman version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mailman version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 neale pickett i hacked up something to turn wordinfo into a tuple before pickling that s what wordinfo __getstate__ does and then turn the tuple back into wordinfo right after unpickling likewise for wordinfo __setstate__ without this hack my database was NUMBER bytes after it s NUMBER bytes that s a NUMBER savings not a bad optimization i m not sure what you re doing but suspect you re storing individual wordinfo pickles if so most of the administrative pickle bloat is due to that and doesn t happen if you pickle an entire classifier instance directly so my question is would it be too painful to ditch wordinfo in favor of a straight out tuple or list if you d rather although making it a tuple has the nice side effect of forcing you to play nice with my dbdict class i hope doing this sort of optimization isn t too far distant from the goal of this project even though readme txt says it is diff attached i m not comfortable checking this in i think it s healthy that you re uncomfortable checking things in with xxx kludge kludge kludge comments wink since i don t really like how it works i d rather just get rid of wordinfo but i guess it proves the point i m not interested in optimizing anything yet and get many benefits from the ease of working with utterly vanilla python instance objects lots of code all over picks these apart for display and analysis purposes very few people have tried this code yet and there are still many questions about it see e g jeremy s writeup of his disappointing first time experiences today let s keep it as easy as possible to modify for now if you re desparate to save memory write a subclass other people are free to vote in other directions of course wink ,0
 barry here s an interesting thing to test discriminate words differently if they are on a line that starts with or to catch styles like above that the first occurance on a line of or is to eliminate html give me a mod to URL that does this and i ll be happy to test it then again it may not be worth trying to un false positive that nigerian scam quote if there s any sanity in the world even the original poster would be glad to have his kneejerk response blocked wink otoh you know there are a great many msgs on URL all over usenet that do nothing except quote a previous post and add a one line comment remove the quoted sections from those and there may be no content left to judge except for the headers so i can see this nudging the stats in either direction the only way to find out for sure is for you to write some code wink ,0
 jeremy hylton the total collections are NUMBER messages i trained with NUMBER NUMBER messages i m reading this now as that you trained on about NUMBER spam and about NUMBER ham that s less than NUMBER of the sizes of the training sets i ve been using please try an experiment train on NUMBER of each and test once against the other NUMBER of each do that a few times making a random split each time it won t be long until you discover why directories of individual files are a lot easier to work e g random shuffle makes this kind of thing trivial for me ,0
 jeremy the total collections are NUMBER messages i trained with NUMBER NUMBER messages while that s not a lot of training data i picked random subsets of my corpora and got much better behavior this is URL output f p rate per run in left column f n rate in right training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER another full run with another randomly chosen but disjoint NUMBER of each in each set was much the same the score distribution is also quite sharp ham distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spam distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it s hard to say whether you need better ham or better spam but i suspect better spam wink NUMBER of the NUMBER most powerful discriminators here were html related spam indicators the top NUMBER overall were font NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER content type text plain NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER body NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER html NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER click NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER html NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER wrote NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER content type text html NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the html tags come from non multipart alternative html messages from which html tags aren t stripped and there are lots of these in my spam sets that doesn t account for it though if i strip html tags out of those too the rates are only a little worse raining on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER raining on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER raining on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER raining on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER raining on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER otal false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER otal false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the NUMBERth strongest discriminator still finds another html clue though subject python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER money NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER content type text plain NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER charset us ascii NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER content type text html NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER nbsp NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER wrote NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER click NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER heh i forgot all about nbsp ,0
 note that header names are case insensitive so this one s no different than mime version similarly other headers in your list ignoring case here may or may not help that s for experiment to decide it s plausible that case is significant if e g a particular spam mailing package generates unusual case or a particular clueless spammer misconfigures his package i found it made no difference for my testing the brilliance of anthony s just count them scheme is that it requires no thought so can t be fooled wink header lines that are evenly distributed across spam and ham will turn out to be worthless indicators prob near NUMBER NUMBER so do no harm zactly i started off doing clever clever things and as always with this stuff found that stupid with a rock beats smart with scissors every time anthony baxter anthony interlink com au it s never too late to have a happy childhood ,0
 looks like your ham corpus by and large has to jeremy URL in a header while your spam corpus by and large doesn t but this one does interestingly for me one of the highest value spam indicators was the name of the mail host that the spam was delivered to in the to line so mail to info URL was pretty much a dead cert for the filters anthony baxter anthony interlink com au it s never too late to have a happy childhood ,0
 jeremy hylton wrote then i tried a dirt simple tokenizer for the headers that tokenize the words in the header and emitted like this s s hdr word that worked too well the received and date headers helped the classifier discover that most of my spam is old and most of my ham is new heh i hit the same problem but the other way round when i first started playing with this i d collected spam for a week or two then mixed it up with randomly selected messages from my mail boxes course it instantly picked up on received NUMBER as a non ham curse that too smart for me software still it s probably a good thing to note in the documentation about the software when collecting spam ham make _sure_ you try and collect from the same source anthony anthony baxter anthony interlink com au it s never too late to have a happy childhood ,0
 course it instantly picked up on received NUMBER as a non ham spam sigh anthony baxter anthony interlink com au it s never too late to have a happy childhood ,0
there seem to be two drivers for the classifier now neale pickett s URL and the original URL according to the readme txt URL hasn t been kept up to date is there anything in there that isn t covered by URL about the only useful feature of URL that URL doesn t yet copy is u which calculates spamness for an entire mailbox this feature can easily be copied into URL URL also has a large collection of tokenizers but URL rules so i m not sure how interesting that is now therefore i propose to nuke URL after adding a u feature anyone against i imagine that skip or barry might have a stake in URL tim seems to have moved all code he s working to other modules guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 i actually like neale s x spam disposition header i just wonder if maybe we should choose something with a different prefix than x spam so that people don t confuse it with spamassassin all of whose headers begin with that prefix also some sort of version information would be useful perhaps the cvs version number for the classifier module could be tacked on skip ,0
 skip montanaro wrote i actually like neale s x spam disposition header i just wonder if maybe we should choose something with a different prefix than x spam so that people don t confuse it with spamassassin all of whose headers begin with that prefix i think it s fine in general just so long as no one checks in anything that puts it into my test corpus or alternately whatever is chosen should be ignored by the tokenizer i know my mail host interlink runs sa but i also run it with my own set of rules and scores i don t want my spam filter to be getting messed up by an upstream spam filter ,0
 guido therefore i propose to nuke URL after adding a u feature guido anyone against i imagine that skip or barry might have a stake guido in URL tim seems to have moved all code he s working to guido other modules no argument here skip ,0
 if the frequency of my laptop s disk chirps are any indication i d say hammie is about NUMBER NUMBERx faster than spamassassin skip ,0
i m listed as a developer on sf and have the spambayes cvs module checked out using my sf username but i m unable to write to the repository cvs complains cvs add URL cvs server aborted add requires write access to the repository any thoughts skip ,0
so then tim peters tim one comcast net is all like i m not sure what you re doing but suspect you re storing individual wordinfo pickles if so most of the administrative pickle bloat is due to that and doesn t happen if you pickle an entire classifier instance directly yeah that s exactly what i was doing i didn t realize i was incurring administrative pickle bloat this way i m specifically trying to make things faster and smaller so i m storing individual wordinfo pickles into an anydbm dict keyed by token the result is that it s almost NUMBER times faster to score messages one per run our of procmail NUMBERs vs NUMBER NUMBERs however it does say all over the place that the goal of this project isn t to make the fastest or the smallest implementation so i guess i ll hold off doing any further performance tuning until the goal starts to point more in that direction NUMBER seconds is probably fast enough for people to use it in their procmailrc which is what i was after if you re desparate to save memory write a subclass that s probably what i ll do if i get too antsy trying to think of ways to sneak administrative pickle boat into casual conversation neale ,0
 yeah that s exactly what i was doing i didn t realize i was incurring administrative pickle bloat this way i m specifically trying to make things faster and smaller so i m storing individual wordinfo pickles into an anydbm dict keyed by token the result is that it s almost NUMBER times faster to score messages one per run our of procmail NUMBERs vs NUMBER NUMBERs this is very worthwhile however it does say all over the place that the goal of this project isn t to make the fastest or the smallest implementation so i guess i ll hold off doing any further performance tuning until the goal starts to point more in that direction NUMBER seconds is probably fast enough for people to use it in their procmailrc which is what i was after maybe i batch messages using fetchmail don t ask why and adding NUMBER seconds per message for a batch of NUMBER not untypical feels like a real wait to me guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 skip montanaro i m listed as a developer on sf and have the spambayes cvs module checked out using my sf username but i m unable to write to the repository cvs complains cvs add URL cvs server aborted add requires write access to the repository any thoughts not really try again about half the developers on the spambayes project were missing some permission or other so i ran thru all of them and checked every damned box and clicked on every damn dropdown list i could find as far as sf is concerned you re all sitting on god s right hand now so if it still doesn t work i suggest you upgrade to winNUMBER wink ,0
 tim about half the developers on the spambayes project were missing tim some permission or other so i ran thru all of them and checked tim every damned box and clicked on every damn dropdown list i could tim find as far as sf is concerned you re all sitting on god s right tim hand now so if it still doesn t work i suggest you upgrade to tim winNUMBER wink time to upgrade i guess cvs add URL cvs server aborted add requires write access to the repository i ll try a checkout into a new directory s ,0
 skip montanaro to anthony baxter accordingly i wrote URL which is mostly a ripoff of something someone else posted to python dev or URL within the last week or so to strip out sa generated headers unless i ve grown senile tonight you got it from anthony to begin with please check it in to project and add a short blurb to readme txt ,0
 choose something with a different prefix than x spam so that people don t confuse it with spamassassin neale how about x spambayes disposition or x hammie disposition if neale there ll be other classifier front ends i kinda like hammie your front end was there first so i suspect it will rule the front end roost s ,0
 skip i ll try a checkout into a new directory which didn t help at the very least i think that means it s time for bed skip ,0
 accordingly i wrote URL which is mostly a ripoff of something someone else posted to python dev or URL within the last week or so to strip out sa generated headers tim unless i ve grown senile tonight you got it from anthony to begin tim with please check it in to project and add a short blurb to tim readme txt raring to go once i can write to cvs s ,0
so then guido van rossum guido python org is all like maybe i batch messages using fetchmail don t ask why and adding NUMBER seconds per message for a batch of NUMBER not untypical feels like a real wait to me yeesh sounds like what you need is something to kick up once and score an entire mailbox wait a second so that s why you wanted u if you can spare the memory you might get better performance in this case using the pickle store since it only has to go to disk once but boy does it ever go to disk i can t think of anything obvious to speed things up once it s all loaded into memory though that s profiler territory and profiling is exactly the kind of optimization i just said i wasn t going to do neale ,0
 maybe i batch messages using fetchmail don t ask why and adding NUMBER seconds per message for a batch of NUMBER not untypical feels like a real wait to me yeesh sounds like what you need is something to kick up once and score an entire mailbox wait a second so that s why you wanted u if you can spare the memory you might get better performance in this case using the pickle store since it only has to go to disk once but boy does it ever go to disk i can t think of anything obvious to speed things up once it s all loaded into memory though that s profiler territory and profiling is exactly the kind of optimization i just said i wasn t going to do we could have a server mode someone described this as an sa option guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 tp tim peters tim one comcast net writes tp jeremy hylton the total collections are NUMBER messages i trained with NUMBER NUMBER messages tp i m reading this now as that you trained on about NUMBER spam and tp about NUMBER ham that s less than NUMBER of the sizes of the tp training sets i ve been using please try an experiment train tp on NUMBER of each and test once against the other NUMBER of each this helps a lot here are results with the stock tokenizer training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and results from the tokenizer that looks at all headers except date received and x from_ training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER is it safe to conclude that avoiding any cleverness with headers is a good thing tp do that a few times making a random split each time it won t be tp long until you discover why directories of individual files are tp a lot easier to work e g random shuffle makes this kind tp of thing trivial for me you haven t looked at URL have you i m using random shuffle too you don t need to have many files to make an arbitrary selection of messages from an mbox i ll report some more results when they re done jeremy ,0
 tp i m reading this now as that you trained on about NUMBER spam and tp about NUMBER ham that s less than NUMBER of the sizes of the tp training sets i ve been using please try an experiment train tp on NUMBER of each and test once against the other NUMBER of each jeremy this helps a lot possibly i checked in a change to URL overnight getting rid of mincount that gave a major improvement in the f n rate too independent of tokenization here are results with the stock tokenizer unsure what stock tokenizer means to you for example it might mean tokenizer tokenize or mboxtest mytokenizer tokenize training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER note that those rates remain much higher than i got using just NUMBER of ham and NUMBER of spam that remains a mystery and results from the tokenizer that looks at all headers except date received and x from_ unsure what that means too for example looks at might mean you enabled anthony s count them gimmick and or that you re tokenizing them yourself and or training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on mbox home jeremy mail inbox NUMBER mbox home jeremy mail spam NUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER is it safe to conclude that avoiding any cleverness with headers is a good thing since i don t know what you did exactly i can t guess what you seemed to show is that you did something clever with headers and that doing so helped the after numbers are better than the before numbers right assuming that what you did was override what s now tokenizer tokenizer tokenize_headers with some other routine and didn t call the base tokenizer tokenize_headers at all then you re missing carefully tested treatment of just a few header fields but adding many dozens of other header fields there s no question that adding more header fields should help tokenizer tokenizer tokenize_headers doesn t do so only because my testing corpora are such that i can t add more headers without getting major benefits for bogus reasons apart from all that you said you re skipping received by several accounts that may be the most valuable of all the header fields i m meaning tokenizer tokenizer tokenize_headers skipping them too for the reason explained above offline a week or two ago neil schemenauer reported good results from this scheme ip_re re compile r d NUMBER NUMBER d NUMBER NUMBER d NUMBER NUMBER d NUMBER NUMBER for header in msg get_all received for ip in ip_re findall header parts ip split for n in range NUMBER NUMBER yield received join parts n this makes a lot of sense to me i just checked it in but left it disabled for now ,0
 guido perhaps more useful would be if tim could check in the pickle s generated by one of his training runs so that others can see how tim s training data performs against their own corpora i did that yesterday but seems like nobody bit just in case wink i uploaded a new version just now since mincount went away unknown_spamprob is much less likely and there s almost nothing that can be pruned away so the file is about NUMBERx larger now URL this could also be the starting point for a self contained distribution you ve got to start with something and training with python list data seems just as good as anything else the only way to know anything here is for someone to try it ,0
here s clarification of why i did first test results using tokenizer tokenizer tokenize_headers unmodified training on NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER second test results using mboxtest mytokenizer tokenize_headers this uses all headers except received data and x from_ training on NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER jeremy ,0
 guido perhaps more useful would be if tim could check in the pickle s generated by one of his training runs so that others can see how tim s training data performs against their own corpora tim i did that yesterday but seems like nobody bit i downloaded and played with it a bit but had no time to do anything systematic it correctly recognized a spam that slipped through sa but it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any mime structure or html parts and several messages in my saved zope geeks list that happened to be using mime and or html so i guess i ll have to retrain it yes you told me so just in case wink i uploaded a new version just now since mincount went away unknown_spamprob is much less likely and there s almost nothing that can be pruned away so the file is about NUMBERx larger now URL i ll try this when i have time guido van rossum home page URL ,0
before we get too far down this road what do people think of creating a spambayes package containing classifier and tokenizer this is just to minimize clutter in site packages skip ,0
 jeremy hylton here s clarification of why i did that s pretty much what i had guessed thanks one more to try first test results using tokenizer tokenizer tokenize_headers unmodified second test results using mboxtest mytokenizer tokenize_headers this uses all headers except received data and x from_ try the latter again but call the base tokenize_headers too ,0
 before we get too far down this road what do people think of creating a spambayes package containing classifier and tokenizer this is just to minimize clutter in site packages too early imo if you mean to leave the various other tools out of it if and when we package this perhaps we should use barry s trick from the email package for making the package itself the toplevel dir of the distribution rather than requiring an extra directory level just so the package can be a subdir of the distro guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 guido on the classifier pickle on sf i downloaded and played with it a bit but had no time to do anything systematic cool it correctly recognized a spam that slipped through sa ditto but it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any mime structure or html parts and several messages in my saved zope geeks list that happened to be using mime and or html do you know why the strangest implied claim there is that it hates mime independent of html for example the spamprob of content type text plain in that pickle is under NUMBER NUMBER content type multipart alternative gets NUMBER NUMBER but that s not a killer clue and one bit of good content will more than cancel it out wrt hating html possibilities include NUMBER it really had to do with something other than mime html NUMBER these are pure html not multipart alternative with a text plain part so that the tags aren t getting stripped the pickled classifier despises all hints of html due to its URL heritage NUMBER these are multipart alternative with a text plain part but the latter doesn t contain the same text as the text html part for example as anthony reported perhaps the text plain part just says something like this is an hmtl message if it s NUMBER it would be easy to add an optional bool argument to tokenize meaning even if it is pure html strip the tags anyway in fact i d like to do that and default it to true the extreme hatred of html on tech lists strikes me as umm extreme wink so i guess i ll have to retrain it yes you told me so that would be a different experiment i m certainly curious to see whether jeremy s much worse than mine error rates are typical or aberrant ,0
 but it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any mime structure or html parts and several messages in my saved zope geeks list that happened to be using mime and or html do you know why the strangest implied claim there is that it hates mime independent of html for example the spamprob of content type text plain in that pickle is under NUMBER NUMBER content type multipart alternative gets NUMBER NUMBER but that s not a killer clue and one bit of good content will more than cancel it out i reran the experiment with the new spamhamNUMBER pik but it doesn t seem to make a difference here are the clues for the two spams in my inbox in URL s output format which sorts the clues by probability the first two numbers are the message number and overall probability then line folded NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER s facility NUMBER NUMBER speaker NUMBER NUMBER stretch NUMBER NUMBER thursday NUMBER NUMBER young NUMBER NUMBER mistakes NUMBER NUMBER growth NUMBER NUMBER content type text plain NUMBER NUMBER please NUMBER NUMBER capital NUMBER NUMBER series NUMBER NUMBER subject don NUMBER NUMBER companies NUMBER NUMBER content type text html NUMBER NUMBER fee NUMBER NUMBER money NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam NUMBER NUMBER content type image gif NUMBER NUMBER content type multipart alternative NUMBER NUMBER attend NUMBER NUMBER companies NUMBER NUMBER content type type multipart alternative NUMBER NUMBER content type multipart related NUMBER NUMBER economy NUMBER NUMBER economy NUMBER NUMBER this has NUMBER content types as spam clues only one of which is related to html despite there being an html alternative and NUMBER other spam clues vs only NUMBER ham clues this was an announcement of a public event by our building owners with a text part that was the same as the html afaict its language may be spammish but the content type clues didn t help btw it makes me wonder about the wisdom of keeping punctuation economy and economy to me don t seem to deserve two be counted as clues NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER s near NUMBER NUMBER alexandria NUMBER NUMBER conn NUMBER NUMBER from adam NUMBER NUMBER from email addr panix NUMBER NUMBER poked NUMBER NUMBER thorugh NUMBER NUMBER though NUMBER NUMBER i m NUMBER NUMBER reflect NUMBER NUMBER i ve NUMBER NUMBER wednesday NUMBER NUMBER content disposition inline NUMBER NUMBER contacting NUMBER NUMBER sold NUMBER NUMBER financially NUMBER NUMBER prices NUMBER NUMBER rates NUMBER NUMBER discount NUMBER NUMBER hotel NUMBER NUMBER hotels NUMBER NUMBER hotels NUMBER NUMBER nights NUMBER NUMBER plaza NUMBER NUMBER rates NUMBER NUMBER rates NUMBER NUMBER rooms NUMBER NUMBER season NUMBER NUMBER stations NUMBER NUMBER subject hotel NUMBER NUMBER here is the full message received headers stripped with apologies to ziggy and david date fri NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from adam turoff ziggy panix com subject hotel information to guido URL davida URL message id NUMBER gkNUMBER panix com mime version NUMBER NUMBER content type text plain charset us ascii content disposition inline user agent mutt NUMBER NUMBERi i ve been looking into hotels i poked around expedia for availability from march NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER nights wednesday thorugh saturday i ve also started contacting hotels for group rates some of the group rates are no better than the regular rates and they require signing a contract with a minimum number of rooms sold with someone financially responsible for unbooked rooms most hotels are less than responsive radission barcelo hotel dupont circle NUMBER night NUMBER weekend state plaza hotel foggy bottom near gwu NUMBER night NUMBER weekend hilton silver spring near metro in suburban md NUMBER hight NUMBER weekend windsor park hotel conn ave between dupont circle woodley park metro stations NUMBER night needs a car econo lodge alexandria near metro in suburban va NUMBER night this is a hand picked list i ignored anything over NUMBER night even though there are some really well situated hotels nearby at higher rates also i m not sure how much these prices reflect an expedia only discount i can t vouch for any of these hotels either i also found out that the down season for dc hotels are mid june through mid september and mid november through mid january z this one has no mime structure nor html it even has a content disposition which is counted as a non spam clue it got f p ed because of the many hospitality related and money related terms i m surprised NUMBER night and similar aren t clues too and again several spam clues are duplicated with different variations hotel hotels hotels subject hotel rates rates wrt hating html possibilities include NUMBER it really had to do with something other than mime html NUMBER these are pure html not multipart alternative with a text plain part so that the tags aren t getting stripped the pickled classifier despises all hints of html due to its URL heritage NUMBER these are multipart alternative with a text plain part but the latter doesn t contain the same text as the text html part for example as anthony reported perhaps the text plain part just says something like this is an hmtl message if it s NUMBER it would be easy to add an optional bool argument to tokenize meaning even if it is pure html strip the tags anyway in fact i d like to do that and default it to true the extreme hatred of html on tech lists strikes me as umm extreme wink i also looked in more detail at some f p s in my geeks traffic the first one s a doozie that s the term right it has lots of html clues that are apparently ignored it was a multipart mixed with two parts a brief text plain part containing one or two sentences a mondo weird url URL and some employer generated spammish boilerplate the second part was the html taken directly from the above url clues NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER s main NUMBER NUMBER later NUMBER NUMBER lots NUMBER NUMBER paul NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER adopt NUMBER NUMBER apps NUMBER NUMBER commands NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER NUMBER dejanews NUMBER NUMBER discipline NUMBER NUMBER duct NUMBER NUMBER email addr digicool NUMBER NUMBER email name paul NUMBER NUMBER everitt NUMBER NUMBER exist NUMBER NUMBER forwards NUMBER NUMBER framework NUMBER NUMBER from email addr digicool NUMBER NUMBER from email name paul NUMBER NUMBER from paul NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER hodge podge NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER deja NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER zope NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER st_rn NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER comp NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER getdoc NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER ps NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER an NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER author NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER fmt NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER getdoc NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER pr NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER products NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER query NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER search NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER viewthread NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER xp NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER zope NUMBER NUMBER inventing NUMBER NUMBER jsp NUMBER NUMBER jsp NUMBER NUMBER logic NUMBER NUMBER maps NUMBER NUMBER neo NUMBER NUMBER newsgroup NUMBER NUMBER object NUMBER NUMBER popup NUMBER NUMBER probable NUMBER NUMBER query NUMBER NUMBER query NUMBER NUMBER resizes NUMBER NUMBER servlet NUMBER NUMBER skip NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER stems NUMBER NUMBER subject jsp NUMBER NUMBER sucks NUMBER NUMBER templating NUMBER NUMBER tempted NUMBER NUMBER url NUMBER NUMBER usenet NUMBER NUMBER usenet NUMBER NUMBER wrote NUMBER NUMBER x mailer mozilla NUMBER NUMBER en windows nt NUMBER NUMBER u NUMBER NUMBER zope NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ccNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ffNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ffNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ffffff NUMBER NUMBER copy NUMBER NUMBER gt NUMBER NUMBER nbsp nbsp NUMBER NUMBER quot no NUMBER NUMBER med NUMBER NUMBER small NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpx NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER b NUMBER NUMBER body NUMBER NUMBER head NUMBER NUMBER html NUMBER NUMBER script NUMBER NUMBER select NUMBER NUMBER span NUMBER NUMBER style NUMBER NUMBER table NUMBER NUMBER td NUMBER NUMBER td tr NUMBER NUMBER tr NUMBER NUMBER tr tr NUMBER NUMBER b a NUMBER NUMBER base NUMBER NUMBER body NUMBER NUMBER br NUMBER NUMBER br nbsp NUMBER NUMBER br a NUMBER NUMBER br span NUMBER NUMBER font NUMBER NUMBER form NUMBER NUMBER head NUMBER NUMBER html NUMBER NUMBER img NUMBER NUMBER input NUMBER NUMBER meta NUMBER NUMBER option NUMBER NUMBER p NUMBER NUMBER p a NUMBER NUMBER script NUMBER NUMBER select NUMBER NUMBER span NUMBER NUMBER style NUMBER NUMBER table NUMBER NUMBER td NUMBER NUMBER td NUMBER NUMBER td td NUMBER NUMBER td img NUMBER NUMBER tr NUMBER NUMBER tr NUMBER NUMBER tr td NUMBER NUMBER tr td img NUMBER NUMBER absolute NUMBER NUMBER align left NUMBER NUMBER align center NUMBER NUMBER align left NUMBER NUMBER align middle NUMBER NUMBER align right NUMBER NUMBER align right NUMBER NUMBER alt NUMBER NUMBER bold NUMBER NUMBER border NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER border NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER color NUMBER NUMBER colspan NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER colspan NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER colspan NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER face arial NUMBER NUMBER font family NUMBER NUMBER font size NUMBER NUMBER font weight NUMBER NUMBER footer NUMBER NUMBER for br NUMBER NUMBER fucking br NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER height NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER hspace NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER g NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER webNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER ads NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER d NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER page NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER site NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER article NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER back NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER com NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER d NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER gif NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER go NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER group NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER http NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER post NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER ps NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER site NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER st NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER title NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER yahoo NUMBER NUMBER inc a NUMBER NUMBER jobs NUMBER NUMBER normal NUMBER NUMBER nowrap NUMBER NUMBER nowrap NUMBER NUMBER nowrap font NUMBER NUMBER padding NUMBER NUMBER rowspan NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rowspan NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER servlets NUMBER NUMBER size NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER size NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip b NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip h NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip h NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip h NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip h NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip h NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip h NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER skip v NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER solid NUMBER NUMBER text NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to br NUMBER NUMBER type image NUMBER NUMBER type text NUMBER NUMBER type hidden NUMBER NUMBER type image NUMBER NUMBER type radio NUMBER NUMBER type submit NUMBER NUMBER type text NUMBER NUMBER valign top NUMBER NUMBER valign top NUMBER NUMBER value NUMBER NUMBER visibility NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER width NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER works br NUMBER NUMBER the second f p had the same structure and sender the third f p had the same structure and a different sender ditto the fifth sixth not posting clues for brevity the fourth was different plaintext with one very short sentence and a url clues NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER s from email addr digicool NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER news NUMBER NUMBER from email addr com NUMBER NUMBER from tres NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER NUMBERdigi NUMBER NUMBER proto http NUMBER NUMBER subject geeks NUMBER NUMBER x mailer mozilla NUMBER NUMBER en xNUMBER u linux NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERsmp iNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER take NUMBER NUMBER bool noorg NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER com NUMBER NUMBER skip h NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER htm NUMBER NUMBER subject software NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER business NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER local NUMBER NUMBER subject firm NUMBER NUMBER us NUMBER NUMBER the seventh was similar i scanned a bunch more until i got bored and most of them were either of the first form brief text with url followed by quoted html from website or the second brief text with one or more urls it s up to you to decide what to call this but i think these are none of your NUMBER NUMBER or NUMBER they re close to NUMBER but all are multipart mixed rather than multipart alternative so i guess i ll have to retrain it yes you told me so that would be a different experiment i m certainly curious to see whether jeremy s much worse than mine error rates are typical or aberrant it s possible that the corpus you ve trained on is more homogeneous than you thought guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 i also looked in more detail at some f p s in my geeks traffic the first one s a doozie that s the term right it has lots of html clues that are apparently ignored the clues below are loaded with snippets unique to html like br i meant to say that they were NUMBER NUMBER clues cancelled out by NUMBER NUMBER clues but that s wrong too it looks i haven t grokked this part of your code yet this one has way more than NUMBER clues and it seems the classifier basically ended up counting way more NUMBER NUMBER than NUMBER NUMBER clues and no others made it into the list i thought it was looking for clues with values in between apparently it found none that weren t exactly NUMBER NUMBER that sure sets the record for longest list of cancelling extreme clues this happened to be the longest one but there were quite a few similar ones i wonder if there s anything we can learn from looking at the clues and the html it was heavily marked up html with ads in the sidebar but the body text was a serious discussion of oo and soft coding with lots of highly technical words as clues including zope and zeo that there are any NUMBER NUMBER clues in here means the scheme ran out of anything interesting to look at adding in more header lines should cure that are there any minable but unmined header lines in your corpus left or do we have to start with a different corpus before we can make progress there the seventh was similar i scanned a bunch more until i got bored and most of them were either of the first form brief text with url followed by quoted html from website if those were text plain the html tags should have been stripped i m still confused about this part no sorry these were all of the following structure multipart mixed text plain brief text plus url s text html long html copied from website i guess you get this when you click on mail this page in some browsers that html tags aren t getting stripped remains the biggest mystery to me still this seems confused jeremy didn t use my trained classifier pickle he trained his own classifier from scratch on his own corpora that s an entirely different kind of experiment from the one you re trying indeed you re the only one so far to report results from trying my pickle on their own email and i never expected that to work well it s a much bigger mystery to me why jeremy got such relatively worse results from training his own and he s the only one so far to report results from that experiment i think it s still corpus size guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 guido i meant to say that they were NUMBER NUMBER clues cancelled out by NUMBER NUMBER clues but that s wrong too it looks i haven t grokked this part of your code yet this one has way more than NUMBER clues and it seems the classifier basically ended up counting way more NUMBER NUMBER than NUMBER NUMBER clues and no others made it into the list i thought it was looking for clues with values in between apparently it found none that weren t exactly NUMBER NUMBER there s a brief discussion of this before the definition of max_discriminators all clues with prob min_spamprob and max_spamprob are saved in min and max lists and all other clues are fed into the nbest heap then the shorter of the min and max lists cancels out the same number of clues in the longer list whatever remains of the longer list if anything is then fed into the nbest heap too but no more than max_discriminators of them in no case do more than max_discriminators clues enter into the final probability calculation but all of the min and max lists go into the list of clues else you d have no clue that massive cancellation was occurring and massive cancellation may yet turn out to be a hook to signal that manual review is needed in your specific case the excess of clues in the longer max_spamprob list pushed everything else out of the nbest heap and that s why you didn t see anything other than NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER before adding these special lists the outcome when faced with many NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER clues was too often a coin toss whichever flavor just happened to appear max_discriminators NUMBER NUMBER times first determined the final outcome that sure sets the record for longest list of cancelling extreme clues this happened to be the longest one but there were quite a few similar ones i just beat it wink a tokenization scheme that folds case and ignores punctuation and strips a trailing s from words and saves both word bigrams and word unigrams turned up a low probability very long spam with a list of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER clues and NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER clues yikes i wonder if there s anything we can learn from looking at the clues and the html it was heavily marked up html with ads in the sidebar but the body text was a serious discussion of oo and soft coding with lots of highly technical words as clues including zope and zeo no matter how often it says zope it gets only one NUMBER NUMBER clue from doing so ditto for zeo in contrast html markup has many unique words that get NUMBER NUMBER btw this is a clear case where the assumption of conditionally independent word probabilities is utterly bogus e g the probability that body appears in a message is highly correlated with the prob of br appearing by treating them as independent naive bayes grossly misjudges the probability that both appear and the only thing you get in return is something that can actually be computed wink read the what about html section in URL from the very start i ve been investigating what would work best for the mailing lists hosted at URL and html decorations have so far been too strong a clue to justify ignoring it in that specific context i haven t done anything geared toward personal email including the case of non mailing list email that happens to go through URL i d prefer to strip html tags from everything but last time i tried that it still had bad effects on the error rates in my corpora the full test results with and without html tag stripping is included in the what about html comment block but as the comment block also says xxx so if another way is found to slash the f n rate the decision here xxx not to strip html from html only msgs should be revisited and we ve since done several things that gave significant f n rate reductions i should test that again now are there any minable but unmined header lines in your corpus left almost all of them apart from mime decorations that appear in both headers and bodies like content type the only header lines the base tokenizer looks at now are subject from x mailer and organization or do we have to start with a different corpus before we can make progress there i would need different data yes my ham is too polluted with mailman header decorations which i may or may not be able to clean out but fudging the data is a mortal sin and i haven t changed a byte so far and my spam too polluted with header clues about the fellow who collected it in particular i have to skip to and received headers now and i suspect they re going to be very valuable in real life for example i don t even catch undisclosed recipients in the to header now no sorry these were all of the following structure multipart mixed text plain brief text plus url s text html long html copied from website ah that explains why the html tags didn t get stripped i d again offer to add an optional argument to tokenize so that they d get stripped here too but if it gets glossed over a third time that would feel too much like a loss wink this seems confused jeremy didn t use my trained classifier pickle he trained his own classifier from scratch on his own corpora i think it s still corpus size i reported on tests i ran with random samples of NUMBER spams and NUMBER hams from my corpus that means training on sets of those sizes as well as predicting on sets of those sizes and while that did harm the error rates the error rates i saw were still much better than jeremy reported when using NUMBER of each ah a full test run just finished on the tokenization scheme that folds case and ignores punctuation and strips a trailing s from words and saves both word bigrams and word unigrams this is the code tokenize everything in the body lastw for w in word_re findall text n len w make sure this range matches in tokenize_word if NUMBER n NUMBER if w NUMBER s w w NUMBER yield w if lastw yield lastw w lastw w elif n NUMBER lastw for t in tokenize_word w yield t where word_re re compile r w xNUMBER xff this at least doubled the process size over what s done now it helped the f n rate significantly but probably hurt the f p rate the f p rate is too low with only NUMBER hams per run to be confident about changes of such small absolute magnitude NUMBER NUMBER is a single message in the f p table false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fp went from NUMBER to NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fn went from NUMBER to NUMBER ,0
 tim i d prefer to strip html tags from everything but last time i tried that it still had bad effects on the error rates in my corpora the full test results with and without html tag stripping is included in the what about html comment block but as the comment block also says xxx so if another way is found to slash the f n rate the decision here xxx not to strip html from html only msgs should be revisited and we ve since done several things that gave significant f n rate reductions i should test that again now i did so alas stripping html tags from all text still hurts the f n rate in my test data false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fp went from NUMBER to NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fn went from NUMBER to NUMBER last time i tried this see URL comments the f n rate after stripping tags ranged from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER with a median of about NUMBER NUMBER so we ve made tons of progress on the f n rate since then but the mere presence of html tags still remains a significant clue for URL traffic so i m left with the same comment xxx so if another way is found to slash the f n rate the decision here xxx not to strip html from html only msgs should be revisited if we want to take the focus of this away from URL traffic i can t say what effect html stripping would have i don t have suitable test data to measure that on ,0
 before we get too far down this road what do people think of creating a spambayes package containing classifier and tokenizer this is just to minimize clutter in site packages guido too early imo if you mean to leave the various other tools out guido of it well i mentioned classifier and tokenize only because i thought they were the only importable modules the rest represent script level code right guido if and when we package this perhaps we should use barry s trick guido from the email package for making the package itself the toplevel guido dir of the distribution rather than requiring an extra directory guido level just so the package can be a subdir of the distro that would be perfect i tried in the naive way last night but wound up with all py files in the package which wasn t my intent skip ,0
these results are from URL i ve got three sets of spam and ham with about NUMBER messages in each set here s what happens when i enable my latest received header code false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fp went from NUMBER to NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fn went from NUMBER to NUMBER anthony s header counting code does not seem to help neil ,0
 neil schemenauer these results are from URL i ve got three sets of spam and ham with about NUMBER messages in each set here s what happens when i enable my latest received header code if you ve still got the summary files please cvs up and try running URL again in the process of generalizing URL you managed to make it skip half the lines wink that is if you ve got n sets you should get n NUMBER n pairs for each error rate you have NUMBER sets so you should get NUMBER pairs of f n rates and NUMBER pairs of f p rates false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fp went from NUMBER to NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fn went from NUMBER to NUMBER looks promising getting NUMBER lines of output for each block would give a clearer picture of course anthony s header counting code does not seem to help it helps my test data too much wink sigh ,0
neil trained a classifier using NUMBER sets with about NUMBER ham and spam in each we re missing half his test run results due to a URL bug since fixed the before custom fiddling figures on the NUMBER reported runs were false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total unique fp NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total unique fn NUMBER the total unique figures counts all NUMBER runs it s just the individual run fp and fn percentages we re missing for NUMBER runs jeremy reported these before custom fiddling figures on NUMBER sets with about NUMBER ham and spam in each false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total unique fp NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total unique fn NUMBER so things are clearly working much better for neil both reported significant improvements in both f n and f p rates by folding in more header lines neal added received analysis to the base tokenizer s header analysis and jeremy skipped the base tokenizer s header analysis completely but added base subject line like but case folded tokenization for almost all header lines excepting only received data x from_ and i suspect all those starting with x vm when i try NUMBER random pairs of NUMBER ham NUMBER spam subsets in my test data i see false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total unique fp NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total unique fn NUMBER this is much closer to what neil saw but still looks better another run on a disjoint NUMBER random pairs looked much the same total unique fp rose to NUMBER and fn fell to NUMBER on a third run with another set of disjoint NUMBER random pairs likewise with fp NUMBER and fn NUMBER so i m pretty confident that it s not going to matter which random subsets of NUMBER i take from my data it s hard to conclude anything given jeremy s much worse results if they were in line with neil s results i d suspect that i ve over tuned the algorithm to statistical quirks in my corpora ,0
 tim one effect of getting rid of mincount is that it latches on more strongly to rare clues now and those can be unique to the corpus trained on e g one trained ham says gryndlplyx and a followup new ham quotes it this may be a systematic bias in the testing procedure in real life msgs come ordered in time say there s a thread that spans n messages on URL in our testing setup we ll train on a random sampling throughout its whole lifetime and test likewise new ham in the middle of this thread gets benefit from that we trained on msgs that appeared both before and after it in real life it s quite plausible that the f p rate would rise without this effect in real life at any given time some number of ham threads will just be starting their lives and if they re at all unusual the trained data will know little to nothing about them ,0
 greg ward case of headers is definitely helpful spamassassin has a rule for it if you have headers like date or subject you get a few more points across my data all caps date subject to etc indeed appear only in the spam collections otoh they don t appear often less than NUMBER of spam messages have at least one of these all cap header lines but when i m fighting what are now sub NUMBER f n rates even rare clues can help ,0
 neale pickett if you can spare the memory you might get better performance in this case using the pickle store since it only has to go to disk once but boy does it ever go to disk i can t think of anything obvious to speed things up once it s all loaded into memory though on my box the current system scores about NUMBER msgs per second starting in memory of course while that can be a drag while waiting for one of my full test runs to complete one of those scores a message more than NUMBER NUMBER times and trains more than NUMBER NUMBER times i ve got no urge to do any speed optimizations if i were using this for my own email i d never notice the drag guido will bitch like hell about waiting an extra second for his NUMBER msg batches to score but he s the boss so he bitches about everything wink that s profiler territory and profiling is exactly the kind of optimization i just said i wasn t going to do i haven t profiled yet but suspect there aren t any egregious hot spots NUMBER gram ing of long words with high bit characters is likely overly expensive when it happens but it doesn t happen that often and as an approach to non english languages it sucks anyway i e there s no point speeding something that ought to be replaced entirely ,0
 guido there seem to be two drivers for the classifier now neale pickett s URL and the original URL according to the readme txt URL hasn t been kept up to date it seemed that way to me when i ripped the classifier out of it i don t think anyone has touched it after is there anything in there that isn t covered by URL someone else will have to answer that i don t use gbayes or hammie at least not yet about the only useful feature of URL that URL doesn t yet copy is u which calculates spamness for an entire mailbox this feature can easily be copied into URL that s been done now right URL also has a large collection of tokenizers but URL rules so i m not sure how interesting that is now those tokenizers are truly trivial to rewrite from scratch if they re interesting the tiny spam ham collections in gbayes are also worthless now the self test feature didn t do anything except print its results URL since became doctest ed and verifies that some basic machinery actually delivers what it s supposed to deliver therefore i propose to nuke URL after adding a u feature NUMBER here anyone against ,0
just curious if subject line capitalization can be used as an indicator either the percentage of characters that are caps or percentage starting with a capital letter if number of words xx brad clements bkc URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax aol im bkclements ,0
 brad clements just curious if subject line capitalization can be used as an indicator either the percentage of characters that are caps or percentage starting with a capital letter if number of words xx supply a mod to URL and i ll test it eventually wink note that the tokenizer already preserves case in subject line words because experiment showed that this was better than folding case away in this specific context but experiment also showed against my expectations that preserving case everywhere didn t make a significant difference to either error rate the subject line is a special case for this ,0
tim peters wrote if you ve still got the summary files please cvs up and try running URL again in the process of generalizing URL you managed to make it skip half the lines wink woops i didn t have the summary files so i regenerated them using a slightly different set of data here are the results of enabling the received header processing false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fp went from NUMBER to NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fn went from NUMBER to NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER my test set is different than tim s in that all the email was received by the same account also my set contains email sent to me not to mailing lists i use a different addresses for mailing lists if people cook up more ideas i will be happy to test them neil ,0
 tim on my box the current system scores about NUMBER msgs per second starting in memory of course that was a guess bothering to get a clock out it was more like NUMBER per second see a NUMBER speedup without changing a thing wink ,0
 neil schemenauer woops i didn t have the summary files so i regenerated them using a slightly different set of data here are the results of enabling the received header processing false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fp went from NUMBER to NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fn went from NUMBER to NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER my test set is different than tim s in that all the email was received by the same account also my set contains email sent to me not to mailing lists i use a different addresses for mailing lists enabling the received headers works even better for me wink here s the f n section from a quick run on NUMBER element subsets NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fn went from NUMBER to NUMBER won NUMBER NUMBER a huge improvement but for wrong reasons except not entirely the most powerful discriminator in the whole database on one training set became received unknown NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER that s got nothing to do with bruceg right received bfsmedia com was also a strong spam indicator across all training sets i m jealous if people cook up more ideas i will be happy to test them neil are using your own tokenizer now or the tokenizer tokenizer tokenize generator whichever someone who s not afraid of their headers should try adding mboxtest mytokenizer tokenize_headers into the mix once in lieu of tokenizer tokenizer tokenize_headers and again in addition to it jeremy reported on just the former ,0
on NUMBER september NUMBER guido van rossum said if and when we package this perhaps we should use barry s trick from the email package for making the package itself the toplevel dir of the distribution rather than requiring an extra directory level just so the package can be a subdir of the distro it s not a trick it just requires this package_dir spambayes in the setup script harrumph trick indeed greg greg ward gward python net URL a committee is a life form with six or more legs and no brain ,0
 i d prefer to strip html tags from everything but last time i tried that it still had bad effects on the error rates in my corpora your corpora are biased in this respect though newsgroups have a strong social taboo on posting html but in many people s personal inboxes it is quite abundant getting a good ham corpus may prove to be a bigger hurdle than i though my own saved mail doesn t reflect what i receive since i save and throw away selectively much more so than in the past multipart mixed text plain brief text plus url s text html long html copied from website ah that explains why the html tags didn t get stripped i d again offer to add an optional argument to tokenize so that they d get stripped here too but if it gets glossed over a third time that would feel too much like a loss wink i ll bite sounds like a good idea to strip the html in this case i d like to see how this improves the f p rate on this corpus guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 tim i d prefer to strip html tags from everything but last time i tried that it still had bad effects on the error rates in my corpora guido your corpora are biased in this respect though newsgroups have a strong social taboo on posting html but in many people s personal inboxes it is quite abundant we re in violent agreement there the comments in URL say that as strongly as possible and i ve repeated it endlessly here too but so long as i was the only one doing serious testing it was a dubious idea to make the code maximally clumsy for me to use on the URL task wink getting a good ham corpus may prove to be a bigger hurdle than i though my own saved mail doesn t reflect what i receive since i save and throw away selectively much more so than in the past yup the system picks up on everything in the tokens graham s proposed delete as ham and delete as spam keys would probably work very well for motivated geeks but paul svensson has pointed out here that they probably wouldn t work nearly so well for real people ah that explains why the html tags didn t get stripped i d again offer to add an optional argument to tokenize so that they d get stripped here too but if it gets glossed over a third time that would feel too much like a loss wink i ll bite sounds like a good idea to strip the html in this case i d like to see how this improves the f p rate on this corpus i ll soon check in this change def tokenize_body self msg retain_pure_html_tags false generate a stream of tokens from an email message if a multipart alternative section has both text plain and text html sections the text html section is ignored this may not be a good idea e g the sections may have different content html tags are always stripped from text plain sections by default html tags are also stripped from text html sections however doing so hurts the false negative rate on tim s comp lang python tests where html only messages are almost never legitimate traffic if optional argument retain_pure_html_tags is specified and true html tags are retained in text html sections you should do a cvs up and establish a new baseline first as i checked in a pure win change in the wee hours that cut the fp and fn rates in my tests ,0
 if and when we package this perhaps we should use barry s trick greg it s not a trick it just requires this greg package_dir spambayes greg in the setup script that has the nasty side effect of placing all py files in the package what about obvious executable scripts like timtest or hammie how can i keep them out of the package skip ,0
 that has the nasty side effect of placing all py files in the package what about obvious executable scripts like timtest or hammie how can i keep them out of the package why would we care about installing a few extra files as long as they re inside a package guido van rossum home page URL ,0
 skip montanaro that has the nasty side effect of placing all py files in the package what about obvious executable scripts like timtest or hammie how can i keep them out of the package put them in a scripts folder m ,0
 because i get mail through several different email addresses i frequently get duplicates or triplicates or more plicates of various spam messages in saving spam for later analysis i haven t always been careful to avoid saving such duplicates i wrote a script some time ago to try an minimize the duplicates i see by calculating a loose checksum but i still have some duplicates should i delete the duplicates before training or not would people be interested in the script i d be happy to extricate it from my local modules and check it into cvs skip ,0
 tp tim peters tim one comcast net writes first test results using tokenizer tokenizer tokenize_headers unmodified second test results using mboxtest mytokenizer tokenize_headers this uses all headers except received data and x from_ tp try the latter again but call the base tokenize_headers too sorry i haven t found the time to try any more test runs perhaps later today jeremy ,0
 skip montanaro because i get mail through several different email addresses i frequently get duplicates or triplicates or more plicates of various spam messages in saving spam for later analysis i haven t always been careful to avoid saving such duplicates i wrote a script some time ago to try an minimize the duplicates i see by calculating a loose checksum but i still have some duplicates should i delete the duplicates before training or not people just can t stop thinking wink the classifier should work best when trained on a wholly random spattering of real life if real life contains duplicates then that s what the classifier should see would people be interested in the script i d be happy to extricate it from my local modules and check it into cvs sure i think it s relevant but maybe for another purpose paul svensson is thinking harder about real people wink than the rest of us and he may be able to get use out of approaches that identify closely related spam for example some amount of spam is going to end up in the ham training data in real life use and any sort of similarity score to a piece of known spam may be an aid in finding and purging it ,0
 guido why would we care about installing a few extra files as long as guido they re inside a package i guess you needn t worry about that it just doesn t seem clean to me s ,0
 i wrote a script some time ago to try an minimize the duplicates i see by calculating a loose checksum but i still have some duplicates should i delete the duplicates before training or not tim people just can t stop thinking wink the classifier should work tim best when trained on a wholly random spattering of real life if tim real life contains duplicates then that s what the classifier tim should see a bit more detail i get destined for many addresses skip URL skip URL concerts URL webmaster URL etc i originally wrote a slightly different version of the URL script i m about to check in to avoid manually scanning all those presumed spams which are really identical once a message was identified as spam what i refer to as a loose checksum was computed to try and avoid saving the same spam multiple times for later review would people be interested in the script i d be happy to extricate it from my local modules and check it into cvs tim sure i think it s relevant but maybe for another purpose paul tim svensson is thinking harder about real people wink than the rest tim of us and he may be able to get use out of approaches that tim identify closely related spam for example some amount of spam is tim going to end up in the ham training data in real life use and any tim sort of similarity score to a piece of known spam may be an aid in tim finding and purging it i ll check it in let me know if you find it useful skip ,0
on NUMBER september NUMBER tim peters said would people be interested in the script i d be happy to extricate it from my local modules and check it into cvs sure i think it s relevant but maybe for another purpose paul svensson is thinking harder about real people wink than the rest of us and he may be able to get use out of approaches that identify closely related spam for example some amount of spam is going to end up in the ham training data in real life use and any sort of similarity score to a piece of known spam may be an aid in finding and purging it otoh look into dcc distributed checksum clearinghouse URL which uses fuzzy checksums it s quite likely that dcc s checksumming scheme is better than something any of us would throw together for personal use no offense skip but i have no personal experience of it greg greg ward gward python net URL if it can t be expressed in figures it is not science it is opinion ,0
 greg otoh look into dcc distributed checksum clearinghouse greg URL which uses fuzzy greg checksums it s quite likely that dcc s checksumming scheme is greg better than something any of us would throw together for personal greg use no offense skip none taken i wrote my little script before i was aware dcc existed even now it seems like overkill for my use skip ,0
 followups to spambayes URL please unless you re specifically concerned about some particular bit of email policy for URL ok after much fiddling with and tweaking of etc exim eximNUMBER conf and etc exim local_scan py on URL i am fairly confident that i can start harvesting all incoming email at a moment s notice for the record here s how it all works eximNUMBER conf works almost exactly the same as before if the file etc exim harvest does not exist that is any junk mail condition that can be detected by exim acls access control lists is handled entirely in eximNUMBER conf the message is rejected before it ever gets to local_scan py this covers such diverse cases as message from known spammer reject after every rcpt to command no message id header and NUMBER bit chars in subject both rejected after the message headers body are read the main things i have changed in the absence of etc exim harvest are don t check for NUMBER bit chars in from header the vast majority of hits for this test were bounces from some asian isp the remaining hits should be handled by spamassassin do header sender verification ie ensure that there s a verifiable email address in at least one of from reply to and sender as late as possible because it requires dns lookups which can be slow and can also make messages that should have been rejected merely be deferred if those dns lookups timeout if etc exim harvest exists then the behaviour of all of those acls in eximNUMBER conf suddenly changes instead of rejecting recipients or messages they add an x reject header to the message this header is purely for internal use it records the name of the folder to which the rejected message should be saved and also gives the smtp error message which should ultimately be used to reject the message thus those messages will now be seen by local_scan py which now looks for the x reject header if found it uses the folder name specified there to save the message and then rejects it with the smtp error message also given in x reject currently x reject is retained in saved messages if a message was not tagged with x reject then local_scan py runs the usual virus and spam checks namely my homebrew scan for attachments with filenames that look like windows executables and a run through spamassassin the logic is basically this if virus folder virus else run through spamassassin if score NUMBER NUMBER folder rejected spam elif score NUMBER NUMBER folder caught spam finally local_scan py writes the message to the designated folder by far the biggest folder will be accepted the server handles NUMBER NUMBER incoming messages per day of which maybe NUMBER NUMBER are junk mail oops just realized i haven t written the code that actually saves the message d ohh also haven t written anything to discriminate personal email which i must do sigh finally the big catch waiting until after you ve read the message headers and body to actually reject the message is problematic because certain broken mtas including those used by some spammers don t consider a NUMBERxx after data as a permanent error but keep retrying d ohh this is a minor annoyance currently where a fair amount of stuff is rejected at rcpt to time but in harvest mode everything with the exception of people probing for open relays will be rejected at data time so i have cooked up something called the asbl or automated sender blacklist this is just a berkeley db file that maps sender_ip sender_address to an expiry time when local_scan rejects a message from sender_ip sender_address for whatever reason including finding an x reject header added by an acl in eximNUMBER conf it adds a record to the asbl with an expiry time NUMBER hours in the future meanwhile there s an acl in eximNUMBER conf that checks for records in the asbl if there s a record for the current sender_ip sender_address that hasn t expired yet we reject all recipients without ever looking at the message headers or body the downside of this from the point of view of corpus collection is that if some jerk is busily spamming URL one smtp connection per address we will most likely only get one copy this is a win if you re just thinking about reducing server load and bandwidth but i m not sure if it s helpful for training spam detectors tim happy harvesting greg greg ward gward python net URL budget s in the red let s tax religion dead kennedys ,0
we ve not only reduced the f p and f n rates in my test runs we ve also made the score distributions substantially sharper this is bad news for greg because the non existent middle ground is becoming even less existent wink ham distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spam distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER as usual for me this is an aggregate of NUMBER runs each both training and predicting on NUMBER URL ham NUMBER bruceg spam only NUMBER ham scores out of NUMBER NUMBER are above NUMBER NUMBER now and yes the nigerian scam quoting msg is still counted as ham i haven t taken anything out of the ham corpus since remving the if aol were a car spam the f p rate wouldn t have changed at all if the spamprob cutoff were dropped from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER dropping the cutoff to NUMBER NUMBER would have added only NUMBER false positives and dropping it to NUMBER NUMBER would have added only another NUMBER more it s spooky ,0
 tim peters wrote we ve not only reduced the f p and f n rates in my test runs we ve also made the score distributions substantially sharper this is bad news for greg because the non existent middle ground is becoming even less existent wink well i ve finally got around to pulling down the sf code starting with it and absolutely zero local modifications i see the following ham distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spam distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER my next current task is to complete the corpus i ve got it s currently got NUMBER ham NUMBER spam and about NUMBER currently unsorted i m tossing up using either hammie or spamassassin to do the initial sort previously i ve used various forms of grep for keywords and a little gui thing to pop a message up and let me say spam ham but that s just getting too too tedious i can t make it available en masse but i will look at finding some of the more interesting uglies one thing i ve seen consider this anecdotal for now is that the skip tokens end up in a _lot_ of the f ps anthony ,0
 after my latest cvs up timtest fails with traceback most recent call last file home skip src spambayes timtest py line NUMBER in drive nsets file home skip src spambayes timtest py line NUMBER in drive d driver file home skip src spambayes timtest py line NUMBER in __init__ self global_ham_hist hist options nbuckets attributeerror optionsclass object has no attribute nbuckets i m running it as timtest nNUMBER data timtest out from my mail directory not from my src spambayes directory if i create a symlink to src spambayes bayes ini it works once again but shouldn t there be an nbuckets attribute with a default value already skip ,0
 skip montanaro after my latest cvs up timtest fails with traceback most recent call last file home skip src spambayes timtest py line NUMBER in drive nsets file home skip src spambayes timtest py line NUMBER in drive d driver file home skip src spambayes timtest py line NUMBER in __init__ self global_ham_hist hist options nbuckets attributeerror optionsclass object has no attribute nbuckets i m running it as timtest nNUMBER data timtest out from my mail directory not from my src spambayes directory if i create a symlink to src spambayes bayes ini it works once again but shouldn t there be an nbuckets attribute with a default value already i never used configparser before but i read that its read method silently ignores files that don t exist if bayes ini isn t found none of the options will be defined since you want to run this from a directory other than my spambayes directory it s up to you to check in changes to make that possible wink ,0
 tim i never used configparser before but i read that its read method silently ignores files that don t exist if bayes ini isn t found none of the options will be defined note that i since got rid of bayes ini it s embedded in URL now so search path issues won t burn you here anymore the intended way to customize the tokenizer and testers is via creating your own bayescustomize ini you ll get burned by search path issues wrt that instead now NUMBER NUMBER wink ,0
 anthony baxter well i ve finally got around to pulling down the sf code starting with it and absolutely zero local modifications i see the following how many runs is this summarizing for each how many ham spam were in the training set how many in the prediction sets what were the error rates run URL over your output file the effect of set sizes on accuracy rates isn t known i ve informally reported some results from just a few controlled experiments on that jeremy reported improved accuracy by doubling the training set size but that wasn t a controlled experiment things besides just training set size changed between before and after ham distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spam distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER my next current task is to complete the corpus i ve got it s currently got NUMBER ham NUMBER spam and about NUMBER currently unsorted i m tossing up using either hammie or spamassassin to do the initial sort previously i ve used various forms of grep for keywords and a little gui thing to pop a message up and let me say spam ham but that s just getting too too tedious yup tagging data is mondo tedious and mistakes hurt i expect hammie will do a much better job on this already than hand grepping be sure to stare at the false positives and get the spam out of there i can t make it available en masse but i will look at finding some of the more interesting uglies one thing i ve seen consider this anecdotal for now is that the skip tokens end up in a _lot_ of the f ps with probabilities favoring ham or spam a skip token is produced in lieu of word more than NUMBER chars long and without any high bit characters it s possible that they helped me because raw html produces lots of these however if you re running current cvs tokenizer retain_pure_html_tags defaults to false now so html decorations should vanish before body tokenization ,0
 tim at the other extreme training on half my ham spam and scoring aginst the other half false positive rate NUMBER NUMBER false negative rate NUMBER NUMBER alas all NUMBER of the NUMBER NUMBER clues there are html related that begged to try it again but with tokenize retain_pure_html_tags false the random halves getting trained on and scored against are different here and i repaired the bug that dropped NUMBER ham and NUMBER spam on the floor so this isn t exactly a NUMBER change difference between runs ham distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER spam distribution for all runs NUMBER items NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER false positive rate NUMBER NUMBER false negative rate NUMBER NUMBER yay that may mean that html tags aren t really needed in my test data provided it s trained on enough stuff curiously the sole false positive here is the same as the sole false positive on the half half run reported in the preceding msg i assume the nigerian scam false positive just happened to end up in the training data both times data ham setNUMBER NUMBER txt prob NUMBER NUMBER prob python NUMBER NUMBER prob alteration NUMBER NUMBER prob edinburgh NUMBER NUMBER prob subject python NUMBER NUMBER prob header errors to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER prob thanks NUMBER NUMBER prob help NUMBER NUMBER prob road NUMBER NUMBER prob there NUMBER NUMBER prob us NUMBER NUMBER prob our NUMBER NUMBER prob company NUMBER NUMBER prob visit NUMBER NUMBER prob sent NUMBER NUMBER prob e mail NUMBER NUMBER prob courses NUMBER NUMBER prob received NUMBER NUMBER prob analyst NUMBER NUMBER prob investment NUMBER NUMBER prob regulated NUMBER NUMBER prob e mails NUMBER NUMBER prob mills NUMBER NUMBER received from NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER helo URL by URL with esmtp exim NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER id NUMBERrdsu NUMBERk NUMBER for python list URL wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER received from URL URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER by URL pro NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pro NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with smtp id iaaNUMBERfor python list URL wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER received from slNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER by URL lotus smtp mta vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with smtp id NUMBERaeNUMBER NUMBERbNUMBER wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER message id NUMBEReNUMBERcNUMBERd bbNUMBER eNUMBERfac slNUMBER internal URL from vickie mills vickie_mills URL to python list URL subject training courses in python in uk date wed NUMBER oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mime version NUMBER NUMBER content type text plain charset iso NUMBER NUMBER content transfer encoding NUMBERbit x priority NUMBER x msmail priority normal x mailer microsoft outlook express NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER x mimeole produced by microsoft mimeole vNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sender python list admin URL errors to python list admin URL x beenthere python list URL x mailman version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER precedence bulk list help mailto python list request URL list post mailto python list URL list subscribe URL mailto python list request URL list id general discussion list for the python programming language python list URL list unsubscribe URL mailto python list request URL list archive URL hi there i am looking for you recommendations on training courses available in the uk on python can you help thanks vickie mills is training analyst tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail vickie_mills URL for more information on standard life visit our website URL the standard life assurance company standard life house NUMBER lothian road edinburgh ehNUMBER NUMBERdh is registered in scotland no szNUMBER and regulated by the personal investment authority tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER calls may be recorded or monitored this confidential e mail is for the addressee only if received in error do not retain copy disclose it without our consent and please return it to us we virus scan all e mails but are not responsible for any damage caused by a virus or alteration by a third party after it is sent the top NUMBER discriminators are more interesting now income NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header mime version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER httpNUMBER remove NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER content type text html NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER string NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER jpg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER object NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER language NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header return path NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER unsubscribe NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header received NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER def NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER http NUMBER gif NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER module NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER import NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header received NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header errors to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header in reply to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER wrote NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER nbsp NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER subject python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header user agent NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header x complaints to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER wrote NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER python NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER header organization NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER there are still two html clues remaining there nbsp and content type text html anthony s trick accounts for almost a third of these python appears in NUMBER of them httpNUMBER python means that python was found in the NUMBERst field of an embedded http url sticking a gif or a jpg in a url both score as NUMBER NUMBER spam clues note the damning pattern of capitalization in header mime version NUMBER this counting is case sensitive and nobody ever would have guessed that mime is more damning than subject or date why would spam be likely to end up with two instances of return path in the headers ,0
i ve been running hammie on all my incoming messages and i noticed that multipart alternative messages are totally hosed they have no content just the mime boundaries for instance the following message NUMBER from somebody someone somewhere org to neale URL subject booga content type multipart alternative boundary snot this is a multi part message in mime format snot content type text plain charset iso NUMBER NUMBER content transfer encoding NUMBERbit hi there snot content type text html charset iso NUMBER NUMBER content transfer encoding NUMBERbit pre hi there pre snot NUMBER comes out like this NUMBER from somebody someone somewhere org to neale URL subject booga content type multipart alternative boundary snot x hammie disposition no NUMBER NUMBER unrelated gar removed this is a multi part message in mime format snot snot NUMBER i m using python NUMBER NUMBERaNUMBER NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ve fixed it with the following patch to tim s tokenizer but i have to admit that i m baffled as to why it works maybe there s some subtle interaction between generators and lists that i can t understand or something being as i m baffled i don t imagine any theory i come up with will be anywhere close to reality in any case be advised that at least for me hammie will eat multipart alternative messages until this patch is applied the patch seems rather bogus though so i m not checking it in in the hope that there s a better fix i just wasn t capable of discovering NUMBER index URL rcs file cvsroot spambayes spambayes URL v retrieving revision NUMBER NUMBER diff u rNUMBER NUMBER URL URL NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER usr bin env python module to tokenize email messages for spam filtering import email NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER htmlpart textpart none stack part get_payload while stack subpart stack pop subpart stack NUMBER stack stack NUMBER ctype subpart get_content_type if ctype text plain textpart subpart NUMBER ,0
so then neale pickett neale woozle org is all like maybe there s some subtle interaction between generators and lists that i can t understand or something being as i m baffled i don t imagine any theory i come up with will be anywhere close to reality and then just as i was about to fall asleep i figured it out the tokenizer now has an extra and all is well i feel like a real chawbacon for not realizing this earlier blaming it on staying up past bedtime neale ,0
on NUMBER september NUMBER tim peters said why would spam be likely to end up with two instances of return path in the headers possibly another qmail ism from bruce guenter s spam collection or maybe anthony s right about spammers being stupid and blindly copying headers well of course he s right about spammers being stupid it s just this particular aspect of stupidity that s open to question greg greg ward gward python net URL think honk if you re a telepath ,0
 anthony baxter NUMBER sets each of NUMBERham NUMBERspam just ran the once it matched all NUMBER to each other URL sez training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER how were these msgs broken up into the NUMBER sets setNUMBER in particular is giving the other sets severe problems and setNUMBER blows the f n rate on everything it s predicting when the rates across runs within a training set vary by as much as a factor of NUMBER it suggests there was systematic bias in the way the sets were chosen for example perhaps they were broken into sets by arrival time if that s what you did you should go back and break them into sets randomly instead if you did partition them randomly the wild variance across runs is mondo mysterious i expect hammie will do a much better job on this already than hand grepping be sure to stare at the false positives and get the spam out of there yah but there s a chicken and egg problem there i want stuff that s _known_ to be right to test this stuff then you have to look at every message by eyeball any scheme has non zero error rates of both kinds so using the spambayes code to tell me whether it s spam is not going to help trust me wink it helps a lot i expect everyone who has done any testing here has discovered spam in their ham and vice versa results improve as you improve the categorization once the gross mistakes are straightened out it s much less tedious to scan the rest by eyeball on skip tokens yep it shows up in a lot of spam but also in different forms in hams but the hams each manage to pick a different variant of or whatever so they don t end up counteracting the various bits in the spam looking further a _lot_ of the bad skip rubbish is coming from uuencoded viruses c in the spam set for whatever reason there appear to be few of those in bruceg s spam collection i added code to strip uuencoded sections and pump out uuencode summary tokens instead i ll check it in it didn t make a significant difference on my usual test run a single spam in my setNUMBER is now judged as ham by the other NUMBER sets nothing else changed it does shrink the database size here by a few percent let us know whether it helps you before and after stripping uuencoded sections false positive percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fp went from NUMBER to NUMBER tied false negative percentages NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tied NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER won NUMBER times tied NUMBER times lost NUMBER times total unique fn went from NUMBER to NUMBER lost NUMBER NUMBER ,0
 how were these msgs broken up into the NUMBER sets setNUMBER in particular is giving the other sets severe problems and setNUMBER blows the f n rate on everything it s predicting when the rates across runs within a training set vary by as much as a factor of NUMBER it suggests there was systematic bias in the way the sets were chosen for example perhaps they were broken into sets by arrival time if that s what you did you should go back and break them into sets randomly instead if you did partition them randomly the wild variance across runs is mondo mysterious they weren t partitioned in any particular scheme i think i ll write a reshuffler and move them all around just in case fwiw i m using mh style folders with numbered files means you can just use mh tools to manipulate the sets for whatever reason there appear to be few of those in bruceg s spam collection i added code to strip uuencoded sections and pump out uuencode summary tokens instead i ll check it in it didn t make a significant difference on my usual test run a single spam in my setNUMBER is now judged as ham by the other NUMBER sets nothing else changed it does shrink the database size here by a few percent let us know whether it helps you i ll give it a go anthony baxter anthony interlink com au it s never too late to have a happy childhood ,0
 neale pickett and then just as i was about to fall asleep i figured it out the tokenizer now has an extra and all is well i feel like a real chawbacon for not realizing this earlier good eye neale thanks for the fix blaming it on staying up past bedtime blame it on barry i do wink ,0
 tim why would spam be likely to end up with two instances of return path in the headers greg ward possibly another qmail ism from bruce guenter s spam collection doesn t seem likely as it appeared in about NUMBER of about NUMBER NUMBER spams it could be specific to one of his bait addresses though don t know a nice thing about a statistical inferencer is that you really don t have to know why a thing works just whether it works wink or maybe anthony s right about spammers being stupid and blindly copying headers well of course he s right about spammers being stupid it s just this particular aspect of stupidity that s open to question i m going to blow it off it s just another instance of being pointlessly baffled by a mixed corpus half of which i don t know enough about ,0
 anthony they weren t partitioned in any particular scheme i think anthony i ll write a reshuffler and move them all around hmmm how about you create empty data ham set NUMBER stuff all your files into a data ham reservoir folder then run the URL script to randomly parcel messages out to the various real directories i suspect you can pull the same stunt for your data spam stuff skip ,0
 skip hmmm how about you create empty data ham set NUMBER stuff all your files into a data ham reservoir folder then run the URL script to randomly parcel messages out to the various real directories i m afraid rebal is quadratic time in the of msgs it shuffles around since it was only intended to move a few files around it s dead simple an easy thing is to start the same way move all the files into a single directory then do random shuffle on an os listdir of that directory then it s trivial to split the result into n slices and move the files into n other directories accordingly i suspect you can pull the same stunt for your data spam stuff yup ,0
 they weren t partitioned in any particular scheme i think i ll write a reshuffler and move them all around just in case fwiw i m using mh style folders with numbered files means you can just use mh tools to manipulate the sets freak show obviously there _was_ some sort of patterns to the data training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER before the shuffle i was seeing total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for sake of comparision here s what i see for partitioned into NUMBER sets training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER training on data ham setNUMBER data spam setNUMBER NUMBER hams NUMBER spams NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false pos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total false neg NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER more later anthony ,0
use perl daily headline mailer damian conway publishes exegesis NUMBER posted by hfb on friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER perlNUMBER URL NUMBERnd open source cms conference posted by ziggy on friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER events URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue damian conway publishes exegesis NUMBER NUMBERnd open source cms conference damian conway publishes exegesis NUMBER posted by hfb on friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER perlNUMBER URL an anonymous coward writes NUMBER has a NUMBER link to NUMBER damian s NUMBER exegesis NUMBER discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBERnd open source cms conference posted by ziggy on friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER events URL NUMBER gregor j rothfuss writes there will be a second NUMBER open source cms conference this fall in berkeley we will feature presentations and workshops from a wide range of cms and would definitely welcome some perl fu in there as well also of interest our efforts to NUMBER build bridges across cms participate in our NUMBER mailing list or better yet NUMBER show up the NUMBER first open source cms conference was held in zurich this past march discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto gregor rothfuss URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 forwarded by rob windsor windsor warthog com forwarded by david dietz kansasNUMBER mynewroads com the latest proposal to drive the taliban and al qaeda out of the mountains of afghanistan is to send in the asf alabama special forces billy bob bubba boo scooter cooter and junior are being sent in with the following information about the taliban NUMBER there is no limit NUMBER the season opened last weekend NUMBER they taste just like chicken NUMBER they hate beer pickup trucks country music and jesus NUMBER some are queer NUMBER they don t like barbecue and most importantly NUMBER they were responsible for dale earnhardt s death we estimate it should be over in just about two days ,0
 forwarded by rob windsor windsor warthog com forwarded by dave bruce dbruce wwd net forwarded by gary williams garyawNUMBER aol com a mother had NUMBER virgin daughters they were all getting married within a short time period because mom was a bit worried about how their sex life would get started she made them all promise to send a postcard from the honeymoon with a few words on how marital sex felt the first girl sent a card from hawaii two days after the wedding the card said nothing but maxwell house mom was puzzled at first but then went to the kitchen and got out the nescafe jar it said good till the last drop mom blushed but was pleased for her daughter the second girl sent the card from vermont a week after the wedding and the card read benson hedges mom now knew to go straight to her husband s cigarettes and she read from the benson hedges pack extra long king size she was again slightly embarrassed but still happy for her daughter the third girl left for her honeymoon in the caribbean mom waited for a week nothing another week went by and still nothing then after a whole month a card finally arrived written on it with shaky handwriting were the words british airways mom took out her latest harper s bazaar magazine flipped through the pages fearing the worst and finally found the ad for the airline the ad said three times a day seven days a week both ways mom fainted ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER august NUMBER slashdot taking questions to ask larry wall this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER august NUMBER posted by rafael on monday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL i guess those thunderstorms came and how they came from an even wetter than normal country on the shores of the north sea comes this weeks perlNUMBER porters summary this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL slashdot taking questions to ask larry wall posted by pudge on monday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER perlNUMBER URL please if you feel inclined make sure some NUMBER reasonable questions are asked of him discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER august NUMBER posted by rafael on monday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL slashdot taking questions to ask larry wall posted by pudge on monday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER perlNUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 forwarded by per hammer perh inrs co uk URL brothel duty for australian mp a conservative member of parliament in australia is set to spend the day as a slave at one of western australia s most notorious brothels liberal party member barry haase was won in a charity auction after the madam of langtree s brothel in the mining town of kalgoorlie made the highest offer for his services for a day i hope he will leave with an informed decision on what australian brothels are all about and it will help him in his political career to make informed decisions that he might not have been able to make before ms kenworthy said mr haase a member of prime minister john howard s party seemed relaxed about the prospect of working in a brothel you can t be half hearted about fundraising for significant charities and i think i m big enough to play the game he said ,0
use perl daily headline mailer net and perl working together posted by pudge on tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue net and perl working together net and perl working together posted by pudge on tuesday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL NUMBER jonasbn writes devx has brought an article on the subject of NUMBER perl and net and porting existing code the teaser learn how cpan perl modules can be made automatically available to the net framework the technique involves providing small perlnet mediators between perl and net and knowing when where and how to modify discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto jonasbn URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer two oscon lightning talks online posted by gnat on friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue two oscon lightning talks online two oscon lightning talks online posted by gnat on friday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER gnat writes the first two oscon NUMBER lightning talks are available from NUMBER the URL website they are dan brian on what sucks and what rocks in NUMBER quicktime and NUMBER mpNUMBER and brian ingerson on your own personal hashbang in NUMBER quicktime and NUMBER mpNUMBER enjoy this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto gnat URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer perl ports page posted by hfb on saturday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cpan URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue perl ports page perl ports page posted by hfb on saturday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cpan URL NUMBER jhi writes one of the largely unknown services of cpan is the NUMBER ports page which offers links to ready packaged binary distributions of perl for various platforms and also other related links to other unixy software if the platform isn t and to ides and editors i would like to get feedback on the ports page either here or by sending email to cpan URL any kind of feedback is welcome but i will feel free to ignore any i don t like discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto jhi URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER august NUMBERst september NUMBER the perl review vNUMBER iNUMBER this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER august NUMBERst september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL this week we re back to our regularly scheduled pNUMBERp report straight from my keyboard s mouth many thanks to elizabeth mattjisen who provided the two previous reports while i was away from pNUMBERp and from whatever might evocate more or less a computer this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL the perl review vNUMBER iNUMBER posted by ziggy on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER brian_d_foy writes the latest issue of the perl review is ready URL extreme mowing andy lester perl assembly language phil crow what perl programmers should know about java beth linker filehandle ties robby walker the iterator design pattern brian d foy enjoy discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER august NUMBERst september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL the perl review vNUMBER iNUMBER posted by ziggy on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer perl cms systems posted by ziggy on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tools URL NUMBER perl conference cd online posted by gnat on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL bricolage NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER escapes posted by chip on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tools URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue perl cms systems NUMBER perl conference cd online bricolage NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER escapes perl cms systems posted by ziggy on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tools URL klb writes NUMBER krow one of the authors of NUMBER slash has written up a NUMBER review on NUMBER linux com of two other perl cms systems the eNUMBER and lj engines makes for interesting reading discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER perl conference cd online posted by gnat on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER gnat writes NUMBER the NUMBER perl conference cd is online on URL enjoy the blast from the past was NUMBER this damian s first public appearance thanks to daniel berger for packratting the cd discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto gnat URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL bricolage NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER escapes posted by chip on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tools URL NUMBER theory writes bricolage NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER has finally escaped the shackles of its cvs repository bricolage is a full featured enterprise class content management and publishing system it offers a browser based interface for ease of use a full fledged templating system with complete programming language support for flexibility and many other features see below it operates in an apache mod_perl environment and uses the postgresql rdbms for its repository this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer perl meetup posted by ziggy on thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue perl meetup perl meetup posted by ziggy on thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER davorg writes the people at NUMBER meetup have set up a NUMBER perl meetup the first one takes place on september NUMBERth i ll probably go along to the one in london to see what happens but i d be very interested in hearing any opinions on what this achieves that the existing perl mongers groups don t discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto dave URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 forwarded by sven guckes guckes math fu berlin de URL port san luis california september NUMBER NUMBER a whale which suddenly breached and crashed into the bow of a fishing boat killed a restaurant owner on board jerry tibbs NUMBER of bakersfield california was aboard his boat the bbq when the whale hit and tossed him into the sea five miles off port san luis three other fishermen stayed aboard the damaged boat which was towed to shore by the us coast guard tibbs and his three friends were just ending a day fishing for albacore when the accident occurred authorities said tibbs body was found after a search lasting more than NUMBER hours coast guard officials said it was the first time they could recall an accident caused by a whale hitting a boat ,0
use perl daily headline mailer this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL as september begins the perlNUMBER porters ignoring the changing weather continue to work this week some small things and a few bigger ones are selected in the report read below this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer URL offers free dns to perl sites posted by km on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue URL offers free dns to perl sites URL offers free dns to perl sites posted by km on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER krellis writes NUMBER URL today NUMBER announced that it will provide free premium dns services primary and secondary dns hosting to any domains involved in the perl community read the press release for full details NUMBER create an account and NUMBER request credit under the perl dns offer never lose traffic to your perl site due to failed dns again sweet thanks discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer the perl journal returns online posted by pudge on wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue the perl journal returns online the perl journal returns online posted by pudge on wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL cmp owners of NUMBER the perl journal have brought the journal back in the form of an online monthly magazine in pdf form the subscription rate is NUMBER a year they need NUMBER NUMBER subscriptions to move forward no word if existing subscriptions will be honored or included in the NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER read the site for more details i think some of the more interesting notes are that it will include a healthy dose of opinion as well a broadening of coverage including languages other than perl will this mean a name change and platforms other than unix i d always thought one of tpj s strengths was that it covered a wide variety of platforms discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer perl NUMBER right here right now slides ava posted by gnat on friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue perl NUMBER right here right now slides ava perl NUMBER right here right now slides ava posted by gnat on friday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER gnat writes the wonderful leon brocard has released the slides from his lightning talk to the london perlmongers NUMBER perl NUMBER right here right now showing the current perlNUMBER compiler in action discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto gnat URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer new perl mongers web site posted by km on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER groups URL java vs perl posted by pudge on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER java URL this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue new perl mongers web site java vs perl this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER new perl mongers web site posted by km on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER groups URL NUMBER davorg writes leon brocard has been working hard to update the NUMBER perl mongers web site we re still going thru the process of cleaning up the data about the perl monger groups so if you see something that isn t quite right then please NUMBER let us know discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto dave URL NUMBER URL NUMBER mailto user_groups URL java vs perl posted by pudge on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER java URL it seems the older perl gets the more willing people are to believe that it sucks without any reasonable facts NUMBER davorg writes you may have seen the article NUMBER can java technology beat perl on its home turf with pattern matching in large files that there has been some debate about on both perl and comp lang perl misc today one of the biggest criticisms of the article was that the author hasn t published the perl code that he is comparing his java with this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto dave URL NUMBER URL this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL this was not a very busy week with people packing for yapc europe and all that nevertheless the smoke tests were running the bug reports were flying and an appropriate amount of patches were sent read about printf formats serialized tied thingies built in leak testing syntax oddities et alii this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 forwarded by nev dull nev sleepycat com forwarded by newsletter URL excerpted shoptalk september NUMBER NUMBER i m a tad furry so animal rights issues come into play robin williams telling entertainment weekly why he won t do nude scenes in movies johnny u johnny unitas was the national football league s most valuable player twice and he led baltimore to victory in super bowl five for those of you younger than NUMBER this was modern football the game was played on artificial turf richard burkard http www laughline com announcement how telling is it that the death of johnny unitas was announced by the baltimore ravens and not the colts who now play in indianapolis when the colt owners moved out of baltimore years ago they apparently left all the history books behind burkard dick disappears vice president dick cheney remains at an undisclosed location the move is for security reasons the bush administration is trying to keep him at a safe distance from would be subpoenas alan ray http www araycomedy com noelle nabbed jeb bush s daughter noelle is in trouble with the law again when she was a child her dad would read her favorite bedtime story goldilocks and the three strikes ray ,0
use perl daily headline mailer subscribe to the perl review posted by pudge on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue subscribe to the perl review subscribe to the perl review posted by pudge on tuesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL NUMBER barryp writes you can now pledge a subscription to NUMBER the perl review the plan is to produce four print magazines per year cost NUMBER year us NUMBER year international let s all make this happen by signing up the web site says that they ll attempt to go print if they get enough subscription pledges discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto paul barry URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 forwarded by william knowles wk cNUMBERi org URL by paul crosbie sep NUMBER NUMBER virgin s latest airliner is being revamped after randy passengers discovered a tiny cabin was just the place to join the mile high club the NUMBERmillion airbus NUMBER NUMBER is fitted with a NUMBERft x NUMBERft mother and baby room with a plastic table meant for changing nappies but couples keep wrecking it by sneaking in for a quick bonk virgin has replaced the table several times even though the plane only came into service a few weeks ago it is named claudia nine after sexy model claudia schiffer NUMBER who launched it in july now virgin bosses have asked airbus to build a stronger table at first german engineers responsible for the jet s interior were baffled by the problem the table is designed to take the weight of a mum and baby one airbus worker said we couldn t work it out then the penny dropped it didn t occur to the germans that this might happen it caused great amusement the firm say the cost of strengthening the tables will be about NUMBER a virgin spokeswoman said those determined to join the mile high club will do so despite the lack of comforts we don t mind couples having a good time but this is not something that we would encourage because of air regulations the new airbus is the world s longest airliner with teasing slogan mine is bigger than yours virgin is using it on flights to the far east and the us ,0
 forwarded by flower did you know that you can tell from the skin whether a person is sexually active or not NUMBER sex is a beauty treatment scientific tests find that when woman make love they produce more of the hormone estrogen which makes hair shiny and skin smooth NUMBER gentle relaxed lovemaking reduces your chances of suffering dermatitis skin rashes and blemishes the sweat produced cleanses the pores and makes your skin glow NUMBER lovemaking can burn up those calories you piled on during that romantic dinner NUMBER sex is one of the safest sports you can take up it stretches and tones up just about every muscle in the body it s more enjoyable than swimming NUMBER laps and you don t need special sneakers NUMBER sex is an instant cure for mild depression it releases the body endorphin into the bloodstream producing a sense of euphoria and leaving you with a feeling of well being NUMBER the more sex you have the more you will be offered the sexually active body gives off greater quantities of chemicals called pheromones these subtle sex perfumes drive the opposite sex crazy NUMBER sex is the safest tranquilizer in the world it is NUMBER times more effective than valium NUMBER kissing each day will keep the dentist away kissing encourages saliva to wash food from the teeth and lowers the level of the acid that causes decay preventing plaque build up NUMBER sex actually relieves headaches a lovemaking session can release the tension that restricts blood vessels in the brain NUMBER a lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose sex is a national antihistamine it can help combat asthma and hay fever enjoy sex ,0
use perl daily headline mailer how much does perl php java or lisp suck posted by pudge on wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue how much does perl php java or lisp suck how much does perl php java or lisp suck posted by pudge on wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL NUMBER brian_d_foy writes a long time ago don marti started the os sucks rules o meter and jon orwant wrote his own sucks rules o meter for computer languages recently dan brian improved on that with a little bit of natural language processing now NUMBER the perl review makes pretty pictures of it all based on searches of altavista and google we found that not a lot of people think php or lisp sucks a lot think c and java suck and they put perl is somewhere in the middle does perl suck more than it use to suck or has php just shot way ahead discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer perlqt NUMBER released posted by ziggy on thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tools URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue perlqt NUMBER released perlqt NUMBER released posted by ziggy on thursday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tools URL NUMBER domNUMBER writes as seen on the dot a new version of NUMBER perlqt is out apparently sporting a perl version of NUMBER uic for developing ui s from xml a NUMBER tutorial is available for those wanting to know more details discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto dom URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer yapc NUMBER call for venues posted by km on sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue yapc NUMBER call for venues yapc NUMBER call for venues posted by km on sunday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER yet another society NUMBER the perl foundation is making a call for venues for the NUMBER yapc america don t forget to check the NUMBER venue requirements the yapc venue module on cpan and talk to the organizers of yapcs past the perl foundation aims to announce the venue in november NUMBER discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL the great perl monger cull of NUMBER posted by ziggy on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER the great perl monger cull of NUMBER this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL that s on a week like this that you realize that lots of porters are european and managed to free themselves for yapc europe or were they on the contrary too busy in the big blue room on the other hand the number of bug reports stayed at its habitual average level this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL the great perl monger cull of NUMBER posted by ziggy on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER davorg writes if you take a look at NUMBER list of local groups on the NUMBER perl mongers web site you ll see that it s just got a good deal shorter over the last month or so i ve been making strenuous efforts to contact all of the groups we had listed to see which ones were still active what you see is the result of this exercise almost half of the groups have been removed because they haven t responded to my emails if your local group still exists but is no longer listed then that means that i don t have an update to date contact for your group please NUMBER let me know if that s the case discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto dave URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER mailto user_groups URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer using web services with perl and applescript posted by pudge on wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue using web services with perl and applescript using web services with perl and applescript posted by pudge on wednesday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL NUMBER jonasbn writes an article on NUMBER perl applescript and web services by randal l schwartz has been published on o reillynet see applescript and perl work together discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto jonasbnno URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER this week on perlNUMBER porters NUMBER NUMBER september NUMBER posted by rafael on monday september NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER summaries URL this was a nice week with lots of discussion on various interesting topics read on for strange bugs strange fixes strange error messages and as always the ongoing efforts made to improve perl NUMBER this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue announcing URL announcing URL posted by ziggy on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER groups URL NUMBER jbisbee writes the south florida perl mongers group is announcing its first social meeting to be held at NUMBER the duck tavern in boca raton fl on tuesday october NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER pm please keep an eye on URL for updated news and events concerning URL discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily headline mailer announcing URL posted by ziggy on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER groups URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 forwarded by chris wedgwood cw fNUMBERf org from bert NUMBER i was so poor growing up if i wasn t a boy i d have had nothing to play with NUMBER a girl phoned me the other day and said come on over nobody s home i went over nobody was home NUMBER during sex my girlfriend always wants to talk to me just the other night she called me from a hotel NUMBER one day i came home early from work i saw a guy jogging naked i said to the guy hey buddy why are you doing that he said because you came home early NUMBER it s been a rough day i got up this morning put a shirt on and button fell off i picked up my briefcase and the handle came off i m afraid to go to the bathroom NUMBER i was such an ugly kid when i played in the sandbox the cat kept covering me up NUMBER i could tell my parents hated me my bath toys were a toaster and radio NUMBER i was such an ugly baby my mother never breast fed me she told me that she only liked me as a friend NUMBER i m so ugly my father carries around a picture of the kid who came with his wallet NUMBER when i was born the doctor came into the waiting room and said to my father i m sorry we did everything we could but he pulled through NUMBER i m so ugly my mother had morning sickness after i was born NUMBER i remember the time that i was kidnapped and they sent a piece of my finger to my father he said he wanted more proof NUMBER once when i was lost i saw a policeman and asked him to help me find my parents i said to him do you think we ll ever find them he said i don t know kid there s so many places they can hide NUMBER my wife made me join a bridge club i jump off next tuesday NUMBER i m so ugly i worked in a pet shop and people kept asking how big i d get NUMBER i went to see my doctor doctor every morning when i get up and i look in the mirror i feel like throwing up what s wrong with me he said i don t know but your eyesight is perfect NUMBER i went to the doctor because i d swallowed a bottle of sleeping pills my doctor told me to have a few drinks and get some rest NUMBER with my old man i got no respect i asked him how can i get my kite in the air he told me to run off a cliff NUMBER some dog i got we call him egypt because in every room he leaves a pyramid his favorite bone is in my arm last night he went on the paper four times three of those times i was reading it NUMBER one year they wanted to make me poster boy for birth control NUMBER my uncle s dying wish was to have me sitting in his lap he was in the electric chair ,0
use perl daily headline mailer mailing list judo movie available posted by gnat on wednesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL conference presentation judo movie available posted by gnat on wednesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue mailing list judo movie available conference presentation judo movie available mailing list judo movie available posted by gnat on wednesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER gnat writes mark jason dominus s NUMBER mailing list judo is now available from URL thanks to david wheeler for recording mark s sessions conference presentation judo will come later today discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto gnat URL NUMBER URL conference presentation judo movie available posted by gnat on wednesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER news URL NUMBER gnat writes mark jason dominus s NUMBER conference presentation judo presentation is online at URL thanks again to david wheeler for recording this at oscon discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto gnat URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 forwarded by monty solomon monty roscom com new NUMBER pc doesn t do windows oct NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm ap online URL by matthew fordahl ap technology writer it s been about NUMBER years since a new atari NUMBER or commodore vic NUMBER could be had for less than NUMBER even then those relics were well on their way from bargain bins to the dust bin of pc history since then few if any new computers have sold for less than NUMBER any that did were seriously outdated or inoperable now in a challenge to established tech giants several upstarts have banded together to create a pc that retails for NUMBER NUMBER it doesn t do windows in fact it doesn t do a lot of things the microtel sysmarNUMBER sold only at wal mart s online store runs on a linux operating system variant called lindows which has been hyped as a new choice for consumers who want to break away from the microsoft monopoly URL ,0
 forwarded by nev dull nev sleepycat com a guy struck up a conversation with a young lady in a bar after a half dozen drinks he suggested they get their own bottle and retire to his motel room and she readily agreed say how old are you anyway the guy asked thirteen she replied with a shy smile thirteen thirteen my god girl get your clothes back on at once and get the hell out of here are you crazy he thundered pausing at the door as she left the girl smiled superstitious huh ,0
 forwarded by nev dull nev sleepycat com forwarded by gary bianconi garyb cmc net the history of medicine NUMBER b c here eat this root NUMBER a d that root is heathen say this prayer NUMBER a d that prayer is superstition drink this potion NUMBER a d that potion is snake oil swallow this pill NUMBER a d that pill is ineffective take this antibiotic NUMBER a d that antibiotic is artificial here eat this root ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue security hole found in the safe module security hole found in the safe module posted by rafael on sunday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER modules URL NUMBER rafael writes a security hole has been discovered in URL when a safe compartment has already been used there s no guarantee that it s safe any longer because there s a way for code executed within the safe compartment to alter its operation mask thus programs that use a safe compartment only once aren t affected by this bug read below for the fixes this story continues at URL discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue installing perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on mac os x NUMBER NUMBER installing perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER on mac os x NUMBER NUMBER posted by pudge on thursday august NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER releases URL NUMBER morbus iff writes the newest release of apple s operating system mac os x vNUMBER NUMBER jaguar comes with perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER surprisingly old for their latest offering in an NUMBER internet developer article i walk the mac os x user through installing perl NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and as well provide a brief introduction to cpan discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto morbus URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 forwarded by rob windsor windsor warthog com forwarded by shirley baer forwarded by cjwNUMBER forwarded by joe allie greenough there were four buddies golfing and the first guy said i had to promise my wife that i would paint the whole outside of the house just to go golfing the second guy said i promised my wife that i would remodel the kitchen for her the third guy said you guys have it easy i promised my wife that i would build her a new deck they continued to play the hole then the first guy said to the fourth guy what did you have to promise your wife the fourth guy replied i didn t promise anything all the guys were shocked how did you do it he replied it s simple i set the alarm clock for NUMBER NUMBER then i poked my wife and asked golf course or intercourse and she said wear your sweater ,0
 forwarded by nev dull nev sleepycat com forwarded by mike olson mao olsons net forwarded by jim frew frew icess ucsb edu forwarded by mark mooney shadow dweller verizon net from the vent scottsdale tribune first they sue the tobacco companies for giving them lung cancer then the fast food places for making them fat guess i can sue budweiser for all the ugly women i ve slept with ,0
 forwarded by nev dull nev sleepycat com forwarded by gene spafford spaf cerias purdue edu forwarded by sean ennis ennis avant ca forwarded by dpbsmith URL daniel p b smith i ve started referring to the proposed action against iraq as desert storm NUMBER NUMBER since it reminds me of a microsoft upgrade it s expensive most people aren t sure they want it and it probably won t work kevin g barkes ,0
use perl daily headline mailer passing the parrot pumpkin posted by km on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER parrot URL the perl journal on the ropes posted by pudge on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue passing the parrot pumpkin the perl journal on the ropes passing the parrot pumpkin posted by km on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER parrot URL NUMBER dan writes after a good run jeff goff the current parrot release manager and keeper of the keys and source is passing on the hat let s everyone give a big welcome to steve fink who s agreed to take up the position thanks for the work jeff now steve get the whip cracking discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL the perl journal on the ropes posted by pudge on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL NUMBER rochlin writes looks like the perl journal might not make it up for air after all this blurb is on NUMBER their website time is running short and we need your help if the perl journal is to get another chance at being the real deal as of a couple of minutes ago we only have NUMBER subscriptions and the deadline is fast approaching please subscribe now it only costs NUMBER cents per day to get the best perl coverage anywhere they need NUMBER NUMBER subscribers to move forward discuss this story at URL links NUMBER URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue tpf october newsletter tpf october newsletter posted by pudge on tuesday october NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER links URL NUMBER delegatrix writes the october edition of the NUMBER perl foundation newsletter has been posted this newsletter includes an interview with white camel winner tim maher discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto lisa URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _shelley powers_ NUMBER i thought the stuff this weekend on foaf was a joke NUMBER NUMBER a bunch of people playing with new toys how does foaf aid aggregation the author is included with each bit why do we need extraneous material such as college and who the author knows NUMBER _seth russell_ NUMBER for example i wanted to know who _you_ were NUMBER only thing i had was your posts to this list so i found URL in your email address then i did a lot of reading over there still don t really know who your are and what you are into what projects you are working on who you know and why you came here to run your mouth but if there were a foaf button on the feed from this channel well i just click on that and i m totally into your stuff NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt jeremy zawodny NUMBER who works at yahoo finance offers an rss NUMBER NUMBER feed for every stock it s a beta feature here s the feed for microsoft NUMBER and one for marimba NUMBER thanks to jon udell NUMBER for the pointer nice jon also notes that microsoft doesn t show up too strong in the weblog world and describes NUMBER a conversation with john montgomery about this what a small world john and i got to know each other when we did the work on soap in the late NUMBERs and weblog software is one of the major reasons we were interested in soap so close but so far but it s never too late NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER finally finished up most of tramp my rdf interface for python if you don t use rdf or python you can probably safely skip this entry new in this version rdf library abstraction because rdflib s organization currently sucks write values in addition to reading and unit tests all with that old tramp flavor you ve come to know and love _but wait _ it also comes with an entire page of explanation advertisement NUMBER if you re not already convinced rdf xml got you down tired of having to go through contortions to deal with data want to write python and be standards compatible at the same time need a module to implement the psuedo code you had on your slides tramp may or may not be the answer to these problems enjoy and get a free bonus prize if you can tell me NUMBER why it s called tramp NUMBER URL NUMBER mailto me URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt halley NUMBER when is someone going to create _audio fonts_ for christ s sake NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ve received an _incredibly kind invitation_ i sure hope i can take it i feel sort of bad though because i think other people deserve it more than i do hm the next few weeks are pretty crazy thu NUMBER edward tufte course NUMBER and msi NUMBER member s night chicago fri NUMBER oscom NUMBER berkeley bookmobile launch NUMBER sf _ unlikely to attend _ satsun hoshana rabba shemini atzeret simchat torah _ jewish holidays _ NUMBER octNUMBER osxcon NUMBER santa clara _ need someplace to stay anyone _ mon NUMBER bernstein s oral argument in crypto export case NUMBER san francisco _ ditto _ tues NUMBER bookmobile NUMBER arrives in d c wed NUMBER lessig s oral argument in eldred case NUMBER d c NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt ny times piece NUMBER on reporters with weblogs NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am phil wolff dave winer books i ll buy NUMBER _sweet _ NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied dvdsynth is an open source project that allows you to splice in your own footage alternate audio subtitles etc to any dvd this means that you can insert your own non sucky subtitles make and circulate edit lists that make highlight reels for your favorite movies etc etc it all amounts to a sweet tool for making the audience into the _former audience_ participants in entertainment of course it s also illegal under the dmca since the tool also necessarily circumvents the copy prevention in pre recorded dvds to accomplish its ends link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via ntk NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt sheila lennon was interviewed NUMBER for the times piece NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied great article on a group of east bay activists who rehab junk computers using semi skilled volunteers who train other semi skilled volunteers the resulting computers are sent to the developing world for activist use for the amazonian villages where there s no electricity or where phone lines are scarce the activists plan to set up free computer labs in the nearby cities many cities already have commercial internet cafes but they cost about a dollar per hour of use henshaw plath says which is about a day s wage for most of the population the imc activists plan to ship off these computers to guayaquil ecuador s main port city by the end of september because none of the computers are being sold in ecuador and because they re being transferred from an american nonprofit to an ecuadorian one the activists won t be charged any international shipping duties on the computers it s what you call real free trade says eddie nix link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks markoffcharney _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied tonight on the style network s tv show area my house will be featured undergoing a hawaiiana makeover watch it and meet carla my daughter and me it ll play monday at NUMBER NUMBER pm et if someone can tape it for me i d appreciate it because my cable service doesn t get the style channel i ll send you a new t shirt iron on of a girl and her pet slug email mark well com link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the good folks at researchbuzz have released a groovy google api tool the suffix census enter your search terms and the census will tell you how many of the results are in net com org and other top level domains link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via researchbuzz NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied article about a scam expert who belives the mom who beat her child is a grifter belonging to the irish travelers the reason she beat up her little girl he thinks is becasue she was pissed that the kid blew her con at a toy store wright believes the beating happened for one of two reasons the little girl gave away the scam to an employee or the mom was so ticked off at not getting refunds she took it out on the little girl i don t know anything about the irish travelers but i m wondering if they are getting a bad rap about being con artists this irish traveler faq NUMBER says some travellers are con men but just like other americans most are not link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied carny concessionaires have taken to selling deep friend twinkies doing big business with artery clogging horripilations in what may be the biggest setback for the war on fat since supersize fries americans are scarfing down thousands of the gooey calorie laden snack cakes at county fairs and restaurants across the country we sold NUMBER NUMBER twinkies in NUMBER days people drove for hours just to taste our twinkie said rocky mullen who sells the deep fried cream filled treats for NUMBER u s each at the payallup fair NUMBER kilometres south of seattle as if twinkies are not sweet enough already vendors such as mr mullen add chocolate or berry sauce and sprinkle powdered sugar on top hearing about mr sell s invention hostess the company that makes the NUMBER year old snack started promoting deep fried twinkies to state and county fairs where a captive population of junk food addicts began gobbling them up between pig races and tractor pull competitions how bad are they for your health after deep frying a twinkie packs an estimated NUMBER calories and NUMBER grams of fat link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt slashdot reports NUMBER that amazon still wants to patent the web NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied aaron swartz has written up a warchalking faq that addresses the shibboleths and paranoia about discovering marking and using wireless connectivity is that illegal although i am not a lawyer i don t think it s illegal to make chalk marks on the sidewalk i know a lot of hopscotch players who d be worried if it was well is it immoral not at all warchalking is a helpful service to assist people in finding something they need an internet connection link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt news com NUMBER URL is hoping to use more than the honor system to protect a payment method it established online last year NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt rssflowersalignright i ve gotten to know phil ringalda over the last few weeks in all the discussions about rss NUMBER NUMBER and i like him and would like to work with him in the future i don t say that lightly this evening he posted a note NUMBER on his weblog that he was giving up trying to get rdf to make sense inside rss as i read his essay i could feel two plus years of exhaustion overwhelm me i found myself writing a comment after his essay saying among other things rss is not a brilliant format it is a compromise it is for syndicating news feeds that s all it is for for the NUMBER NUMBERth time it s time for rdf to pack its bags and leave rss deserves some dignity as does rdf emphatically once and for all they are not the same thing peace be with you rdf leave rss alone thank you NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am gold lake mountain resort NUMBER looks pretty gooood man there are a lot of cool relaxing places to stay in colorado keep the suggestions coming NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am gold lake mountain resort NUMBER looks pretty gooood man there are a lot of cool relaxing places to stay in colorado keep the suggestions coming NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied janis ian a brave and talented recording artist and budding and talented science fiction writer has done a terrific interview with the slashdot groupmind about her views on the music industry seriously diversity is something record companies can t afford anymore not the majors at any rate i d go to this article posted at linux journal which quotes a newsweet article july NUMBER NUMBER by steven levy saying so why are the record labels taking such a hard line my guess is that it s all about protecting their internet challenged business model their profit comes from blockbuster artists if the industry moved to a more varied ecology independent labels and artists would thrive to the detriment of the labels which would have trouble rustling up the rubes to root for the next britney the smoking gun comes from testimony of an riaa backed economist who told the government fee panel that a dramatic shakeout in webcasting is inevitable and desirable because it will bring about market consolidation that s really it in a nutshell market consolidation means the less artists they have to promote the less ultimate dollars they ll spend the smaller the playlist the greater the chance that audiences will buy something from that playlist alone because that s all you ll be able to find out there link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt ed cone NUMBER i told my grandmother goodbye NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied google has seriously revamped google news the system automatically gathers today s top stories and finds all the various coverage of them it s really excellent link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks nate _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt paul everitt interop in the bazaar NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt cnn headline news to blog or not to blog NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt after posting my comment yesterday about next things NUMBER i want to do i m starting to get job offers hey i wasn t expecting that but i like it i like it especially in this stinkin economy on the other hand can you imagine _me_ with a job NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am phil wolff dave winer books i ll buy NUMBER _sweet _ NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL jeff writes goats with enormous testicles and a life sized cow sculpted from butter pictures from massachusett s eastern states expo this weekend anyone know the purpose of those overgrown goat gonads link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks jeff NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt shelley powers raises NUMBER some interesting questions re whether rdf has a place in syndication she says that rdf is trying to build a persistent database aka the semantic web and rss is trying to flow news that has a short lifespan i had not heard this point before it s worth thinking about NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt i ve been hearing a lot about foaf which is an acronym for friend of a friend it s an rdf based file format that lets you walk a network of people who are friends it s a lot like a network of blogrolls NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied homeland alert is an os x app that puts a little beacon in your menubar telling you what the current nationwide alert status is just in case you don t have enough free floating anxiety in your life link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks jon NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER trust me when i tell you that heavy medication and rdf do not mix here is a list of things i intend to re read once the fog lifts _phil ringnalda_ using foaf relationships NUMBER and just say no to trackback in index html NUMBER _les orchard_ per post comment rss feed NUMBER _phil wainewright_ the bare necessities of rss NUMBER and what to do about rdf NUMBER the beginning of an rss NUMBER NUMBER best practices document _jonathon delacour_ trying to score a goal NUMBER NUMBER as the best and the brightest focus on the possibilities of foaf i turned my attention to yesterday s news rss NUMBER no rss will always be today s news get it today s newzzz never mind comments on ben hammersley s friend of a friend NUMBER various ways to link to a foaf file from an rss feed _nicholas chase_ the web s future xhtml NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER we re losing backward compatibility isn t that great well he seems to think so mod_cc NUMBER a module for including copyright information in rdf documents such as rss NUMBER NUMBER feeds and i hope foaf files _shelley powers_ who is your audience and what are you trying to accomplish NUMBER addressing the growing identity crisis on the rss dev mailing list NUMBER also the comments on shelley s article NUMBER _ian hickson_ pingback NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the best thing about this idea is that unlike similar schemes like trackback it is totally transparent to both users NUMBER new software helps in building of accessible web sites NUMBER a press release for a new edition of lift NUMBER which i have never used forget mars bars twinkies now the deep fried treat NUMBER NUMBER the secret to making a deep fried twinkie he says is to place it in the fridge first to give it more stability he then rolls it in flour covers it with batter and plunks it into the oil NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER no really my sinus infection which appeared to be gone flared up again over the weekend in the nastiest way and i am now coughing up dark mucus and doing other things that probably don t bear repeating in a public forum i have the NUMBER NUMBER doctor s appointment that i should have made last round had i not convinced myself that NUMBER it s not that bad NUMBER and trudged through it all without prescription drugs i m not making the same mistake this time i ll be back this afternoon my email problems of yesterday have been resolved you can once again reach me at my normal address fNUMBERdy URL kevin burton NUMBER emailed me with another way to link to a foaf file from my rss feed it looks easier than previous suggestions and it has the advantage of being able to use it from an rss NUMBER NUMBER or NUMBER NUMBER feed but i worry about all these variations just as in real life where people can use different words that mean essentially the same thing in the semantic web programs can use different vocabularies to express the same statements that s great for producers not so great for consumers who have to make sense of it all for each domain rss feeds foaf files whatever somebody or some group needs to come along and document best practices we need better _goal oriented_ documentation we have a lot of reference documentation task oriented documentation but very little that documents that larger picture and answers questions written in english NUMBER how do i include personal information in my rss feed NUMBER is a goal oriented question NUMBER create a foaf file using this tool and then insert this line at this location in your rss feed NUMBER with as many examples as necessary is a goal oriented answer anything less is like trying to master a foreign language by reading a dictionary NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied robert l forward a giant of hard science fiction has died at NUMBER of brain cancer link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks michael NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt google pr sends a message that they have a new news service NUMBER maybe i m slow this morning or maybe i m spoiled but what s the big deal i thought they already had this my personal aggregator NUMBER is better it shows me what i m interested in it s not one size fits all help me figure this out i m sure there s something innovative here i just don t see it NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied javawalk is a coffee oriented walking tour of san francisco javawalk is a two hour walk in the city center we start at union square and wind through chinatown jackson square and north beach the city s italian district while we cover the city s coffee roots much more significant than seattle s and coffeehouse culture think beatnik we also spend some time on san francisco s history interesting and arcane trivia and stories the javagirl has collected from many years of living in the city truly some things could only happen in sf javawalk also makes a couple of stops at north beach cafes for a quick java jolt since cool weather prevails here we need coffee year round in the city by the bay lucky us link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks paul _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date mon NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt URL google search gets newsier NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _anil dash_ xml version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER why isn t there a way to syndicate my words without butchering the way they look NUMBER several people protested last week by changing their weblog templates to something like this NUMBER jason levine has more links NUMBER to those involved i spoke with one of the people who implemented it and she claims it wasn t a protest as such more of an inside joke point taken the entire point of an aggregator and syndication in general is to make everyone s words look the same counterpoint the default in most weblog systems is to only publish excerpts in rss feeds nobody s forcing you to publish full posts this would probably be a good place to insert a zen quote about attachment but my mind is too fuzzy to find it _timothy appnel_ more ffkar rdf and foaf NUMBER ffkar is NUMBER the format formerly known as rss NUMBER sam has already implemented it NUMBER _nicholas avenell_ esf NUMBER NUMBER are you also fed up with the continuing war between rss NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER and whatever else they invent today me too so today i invented the epistula syndication format esf it isn t xml it isn t rdf it s just data NUMBER sam NUMBER would love it then but movable type doesn t support outputting dates in unix timestamp format NUMBER which could be an impediment to mainstream acceptance _shelley powers_ consumer rights and rss NUMBER NUMBER i m not buying into rss NUMBER NUMBERx i m not buying into rss NUMBER NUMBER i m not buying into rss NUMBER NUMBER i changed my rss NUMBER NUMBER and rss NUMBER NUMBER templates to read the following NUMBER rss not supported here this weblog does not support rss NUMBER NUMBERx rss NUMBER NUMBER or rss NUMBER NUMBER if you wish to view entries may i suggest that you visit the weblog and save your fast skimming for the new york times and wall street journal i m sure this is some sort of dmca violation or something but here goes import urllib re print n title burningbird n URL en us n n n join title s s t for t in re compile r dc title s dc identifier re dotall findall urllib urlopen URL read NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL tag formats NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt bruce loebrich NUMBER has scraped rss feeds for google news and a rss NUMBER NUMBER success story in other words it s okay to use the features in NUMBER NUMBER we re doing it at userland and so is bruce NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i need a lawyer willing to argue that not for profit file sharing is fair use i ve got a plan napster work in progress NUMBER that s new they re also selling merchandise mpNUMBER is not a crime NUMBER is a weblog covering the attacks on our rights dave winer says he s not afraid to defend our rights NUMBER _yes who else _ i will now refer to file sharing networks as fair use networks like my limewire fair use network client or the kazaa fair use network NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt news com NUMBER linux is a serious competitor said ballmer NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _sam ruby_ stark raving mad NUMBER this post was entered in radio extracted using a batch file via some usertalk parsed using perl cleaned up by tidy and a c program of my own design transferred to intertwingly using scp and then ssh triggers unpacking on the destination site where a shell script takes over invokes indexing using jakarta s lucene and then a python script pings URL and URL tom stoppard _rosencrantz and guildenstern are dead_ guildenstern NUMBER a man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself NUMBER rosencrantz NUMBER or just as mad NUMBER guildenstern NUMBER or just as mad NUMBER rosencrantz NUMBER and he does both NUMBER guildenstern NUMBER so there you are NUMBER rosencrantz NUMBER stark raving sane NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER there are a few net innovations that have far greater ramifications than you would at first hearing expect them to napster at heart just irc with a ui was one google news NUMBER is another in its first day i ve already noticed the front page changes its editorial stance depending on where the earth s terminator NUMBER is so in the evening on the west coast google news is lead by the south china morning post and various asian english language papers by the late evening the bbc and european papers are kicking in the site may be created by algorithms but what about the choice of sites the most arbitrary dividing line i see in google s coverage is what is a news site and what isn t slashdot NUMBER is for instance as well as some very obscure NUMBER newspapers what about blues news NUMBER or scripting news NUMBER though big companies spend mucho money paying clipping services that send them copies of any press coverage they receive clipping services are going to have to find some added value very NUMBER very NUMBER quickly NUMBER URL NUMBER URL the sunrise sunset line dividing the day and night halves of the moon or a planet NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _phil ringnalda_ putting on the brakes NUMBER NUMBER so the answer to the question that started this whole project what is the rdf in rss NUMBER NUMBER good for is two things it s good for someone who has an infinitely large database that can be queried infinitely fast by a schema aware program or it s good for writing a schema aware aggregator that can try to figure out what it should do with new elements that it hasn t seen before that s actually an interesting project with some potential for success but at this point i m sick of the whole thing so i ll leave that project for someone else NUMBER _aaron swartz_ tramp makes rdf look like python data structures NUMBER NUMBER rdf xml got you down tired of having to go through contortions to deal with data want to write python and be standards compatible at the same time need a module to implement the psuedo code you had on your slides tramp may or may not be the answer to these problems NUMBER complete with an example of parsing foaf files _dan connolly_ hyperrdf using xhtml authoring tools with xslt to produce rdf schemas NUMBER NUMBER xml syntax is a little tedious but lots of people are evidently willing and able of editing it by hand rdf adds another layer of tedium but there are still a few folks willing to write it by hand i make heavy use of reification quoting in my representation of logical formulas in rdf this adds another layer of tedium that i find unmanageable and i have been writing xml sgml html by hand for NUMBER years NUMBER also includes a cogent explanation of the obscure profile attribute in html NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt sam ruby NUMBER yup i m a sick puppy _me too _ NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt note to self read the pingback spec NUMBER form opinion NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt aaron swartz NUMBER if everyone is afraid to speak who will defend our right to download _i m not afraid _ NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt lest anyone doubt that brent NUMBER has a good heart i laughed because here s the irony on this site on my own personal weblog radio userland rather than netnewswire is the most used aggregator NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt dotcom scoop NUMBER cnet s URL is set to introduce a new program for its URL software portal beginning sept NUMBER software vendors will be charged a fee to upload their wares there is also a monthly package to get better placement on the site NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt iowa NUMBER there was frost outside this morning NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt macnet journal reports NUMBER that omnioutliner will support opml NUMBER soon that s very good news NUMBER indeed NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the overworked world of web development there s no time to study there s only time to do NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt ray ozzie software platform dynamics NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt wired NUMBER an urgent business proposition and requests for urgent assistance from a so called nigerian official were heeded by a detroit bank secretary in the latest example of how the ubiquitous e mail scam actually works NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt jeremy allaire wholistic web services NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt scoble NUMBER i m just not that excited by much that microsoft is doing NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt ny times NUMBER google s automated editors appeared to match the work of human competitors NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _jeffrey zeldman_ os x blues update NUMBER a couple of intellectuals have pointed out parallels between the rigidity of os x which derives its power from unix and xml and the rules of standards based web development which also compels you to do things the right way instead of using five different non standard hacks the parallel is not without merit building web pages the right way is hard at first but once you get it you never want to go back regardless we miss os NUMBER s flexibility and ease of use and a metric ton of logic doesn t offset that feeling of loss NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dvd capture NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER is a helper application for the apple dvd player it enables the user to take screen captures of the dvd player viewer in window and full screen mode the captures can be saved to a file or placed on the clipboard NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt looks like google did a deal to index the ny times if you do this news search NUMBER and mouse over the link you ll see there s a partner attribute on the url like the ones in our links NUMBER what are the implications of this here s one martin nisenholtz may now have a _chance_ of winning his bet NUMBER with me NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date tue NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt lance knobel NUMBER of davos newbies does a quick review of tony blair s case against sadam hussein NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied barbie has been made over as a bond girl img URL as james bond ken has matured nicely with rooted hair with slight silvering at his temples wearing a midnight blue tuxedo and authentic recreation of the classic tux by brioni the famed clothier linda hemming the award winning costume designer in charge of this year s james bond film outfits barbie doll she wears a blood red gown with a glittering gold lace overlay and a gauzy red shawl with a gold filigree design her gown is cut up the side to reveal lots of leg as well as not so discreet hip strap that anchors barbie s cell phone the set is slated for release in november to coincide with the premiere of die another day the new james bond film bond james bond meet barbie just barbie link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks derek _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied for uk NUMBER NUMBER a bioresearcher will map your personal genome for you as geneticists discover more markers for congenital diseases you can compare them to your genome and learn what you re in for in your lifetime heart disease cancer baldness compulsive hand washing link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks alan _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied i ve put up a page called NUMBER reasons to pre order down and out in the magic kingdom with blurbs by twelve people telling you why they think you should buy it here re the blurbers bruce sterling lawrence lessig kelly link mark frauenfelder karl schroeder rudy rucker howard rheingold douglas rushkoff tim o reilly bruce schneier gardner dozois mitch kapor and the blurbs are great like this one wow disney imagineering meets nanotechnology the reputation economy and ray kurzweil s transhuman future as much fun as neal stephenson s snow crash and as packed with mind bending ideas about social changes cascading from the frontiers of science tim o reilly publisher and founder o reilly and associates _nb this used to be NUMBER reasons but i just realized that i somehow ended up with a phantom entry from dan gillmor who on closer examination it appears i failed to deliver a copy to like a total idiot my apologies dan_ link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied eff is looking for a few good slogans we re getting some banners made up to place on pNUMBERp network clients with slogans like pNUMBERp has a posse we need more mail your suggestions to kevin URL or post to the discuss link link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER mailto kevin URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied a new addition to the parodical genre of NUMBER nigerian money laundry scam letters from members of the shrub establishment following up on cheney s letter NUMBER i am the widow of the late president george w bush of the united states of america i am writing you this letter in confidence regarding my current circumstances i escaped the united states ahead of death squads with my husband and two children jenna and frank moving first to england and then when my husband s political enemies took power there to austria all of our wealth obtained legitimately through baseball oil drilling and insider trading was seized by the new government of the usa under the despotic regime of dr noam chomsky except for the contents of a few swiss bank accounts these bank accounts which contain social security lock box funds and the bulk of the NUMBER budget surplus could not be accessed by me or my children due to agreements made between the socialist government of the usa and swiss bank regulators they seized our ranch in crawford texas and now use it to teach homosexualist propaganda to schoolchildren link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks stefan _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied dvd capture is an applescript for os x that captures screen grabs from dvds os x normally disables screen capture while the dvd player is running even if it isn t visible i have some home movies on dvd that i d love to get stills from but i can t the dvd licensing board has forced apple to break my hardware in such a way as to prevent me from doing something completely lawful to make sure that i never ever grab a frame out of _police academy n NUMBER_ nice to see that independent software authors are willing to un break my gear for me link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks patrick NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied gregor sez enron corp material assets go on the block NUMBER am ct tomorrow wednesday NUMBER NUMBER first on the list is the giant steel enron e lot e followed by tons of cool tech NUMBER inch plasma panels desktop lc displays boxes of palm pdas or nokia cell phones network stuff wireless stuff desktop computers servers monitors printers plotters in both massive lots and individually oh yeah enron trade show trinkets too by the cartload the catch you have to either go to texas to pick up the stuff or arrange with an approved NUMBERrd party vendor list provided on the web site to have it picked packed and shipped for you go register bid consume link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks gregor _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the horror writers of america are hosting a charity auction on ebay to raise money for american literacy charities among the items up for auction a rare softcover advance copy bound galley of thomas harris the silence of the lambs issued by st martin s press in NUMBER the first u s hardcover edition of clive barker s the damnation game and a bundle of limited edition prints depicting scenes from stephen king novels such as carrie and the shining link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied ben hammersley posts a parable about design specifications showing the link between roman chariots and the space shuttle it has the ring of something apocraphyl to me but it s a good read nevertheless the u s standard railroad gauge distance between the rails is NUMBER feet NUMBER NUMBER inches that is an exceedingly odd number why was that gauge used because that s the way they built them in england and the u s railroads were built by english expatriates why did the english build them that way because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre railroad tramways and that s the gauge they used why did they use that gauge because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons which used that wheel spacing so why did the wagons have that particular odd spacing well if they tried to use any other spacing the wagon wheels would break on some of the old long distance roads in england because that was the spacing of the wheel ruts snopes says it s false NUMBER but from their notes it appears that it s actually largely true albeit subject to interpretation link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the british government has invited the local equivalent of the riaa to fund an anti piracy post as charlie puts it mr fox here s the new set of hen house keys you ordered the uk music industry is to co fund a new post at the department for culture media and sport dcms to act as a link with the government in the struggle with music piracy link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via charlie s diary NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied moller a public company in davis california has developed a flying car img URL moller international has developed the first and only feasible personally affordable personal vertical takeoff and landing vtol vehicle the world has ever seen you ve always known it was just a matter of time before the world demanded some kind of flying machine which would replace the automobile of course this machine would have to be capable of vtol be easy to maintain cost effective and reliable well we at moller international believe we have come up with the solution that solution is the volantor named mNUMBER skycar link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks mark _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied stefan sez a federal judge has determined that gas pipline manager el paso did indeed limit natural gas supplies to california resulting in ruinous prices rolling blackouts and smug cato institute flaks wagging their fingers at hot tubbers and environmentalists california was sitting on a juicy dotcom era tax windfall before it all got sucked away by this phony crisis if i were gov davis i d sieze every private pipeline powerline and power plant and hold them hostage until the energy industry pays back every dime they extorted from the state link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks stefan NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied newzoid generates fake news headlines NUMBER miss universe calling for isidore NUMBER rumsfeld suggests aspirin reduces alzheimer s risk NUMBER editorial attacks computer system NUMBER stressed out just call for new tv show NUMBER gore to hear about it NUMBER nurses to be given their own passports on iraq action NUMBER us arraigned in fighting slavery NUMBER lisa riley lines below chaos above link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks daniel NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL matt warchalking jones has come up with a bio dog for the latest viridian design contest NUMBER called von neumann s best friend link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks matt NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER one of the weirdest things i heard when listening to the cato institute debate was an economist claim a tenet of my profession is that people won t pay for something they can get for free someone objected using the analogy of bottled water there s a far better example the new york times incredibly this institution puts out pages and pages of high quality professional content each week and then distributes them by means of men in trucks across the country overnight where they sit waiting to be sold to people meanwhile the exact same content is available _for free_ using an insidious peer to peer downloading system called the web by typing in the keyword URL those people at the new york times must not understand the internet or something more examples the thriving shareware market the baen free library janis ian and others other times people claim that no one will create if they can t get paid i d like to introduce you to free software and just about every weblog on the planet ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt thanks to jenny NUMBER for the pointer to this yale law article NUMBER about the wayback machine removing articles about scientology while lawmeme doesn t know all the details of scientology s request to the internet archive especially the extent of websites removed we do know that the internet archive is blocking all archived versions of one of scientology s leading critics and the main target in the google affair URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt liberation les jouebs stars editoriales du web NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt jeremy bowers NUMBER none of the trackback mechanisms has reached the critical mass necessary to see the negative effects experienced in all other community models NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt ken dow reports NUMBER that the current version of omnioutliner can read and write opml this means for example with a little radio script or an applescript you could use omni as an instant outliner NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt ray ozzie NUMBER how long before we see auto pingback generator spambots NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt jeremy zawodny NUMBER on life in silicon valley i came out here to work at a company that has since forgotten how to innovate and take risks yippie NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied a new kpmg study concludes that the riaa and its member companies are hurting themselves by focusing on cracking down on pNUMBERp sharing instead of figuring out ways to earn a living with it media companies must put less emphasis on protecting digital content and instead find ways to make money from digital music and movies if they hope to beat back copyright pirates who threaten their businesses according to a study released on wednesday from kpmg they complain about the napsters she said referring to the bankrupt music swap site that was found to violate u s copyright laws but why do the napsters exist because the marketplace wants them steel said that if the issue is not on boardroom table then that boardroom has problems link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks michael _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt reuters NUMBER pets may not only provide good company for their owners they may also help lower stress according to new study findings NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied just a reminder i m speaking at the university of texas at austin at NUMBERpm this friday giving a talk on hollywood s legislative agenda sponsored by eff austin actlab and aclu texas love to see you there link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date thu NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt rssflowersalignright a productive thread NUMBER on rss dev confronts the negativeness about rss NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER head on this will go someplace interesting i left a big hint there in the way the blogchannel module NUMBER is designed patterned after the syndication module NUMBER designed by the rdf folk in other words the place where they re expressing discomfort with rss NUMBER NUMBER is where they can make it their own lead instead of feeling disempowered be powerful at one point i saw clearly where the compromise between rss NUMBER NUMBERx and NUMBER NUMBER was we could have gotten there in early NUMBER so instead we get there in late NUMBER so what not a big deal think about how much better it will be _when we re all advocating the same format _ visualize peace that s basically what i did when i did the NUMBER NUMBER spec i know it s hard to swallow but swallow anyway if i did it you can too NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied great piece on the pulp comic characters that appear in the new series of alan moore s _league of extraordinary gentlemen tom strong_ thanks zed funnybook these characters like the terror and the fighting yank are in the public domain because their original publishers didn t register or renew it s unclear their copyright which means that they ve been granted a new lease on life in _tom strong_ the article segues into a very good discussion of the public domain this was just slashdotted so it might be a little slow but it s worth the wait link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt img URL a picture named uncsammedium gif NUMBER last year on this day NUMBER it s been not correct for most of my life for americans to say we love our country that s a big bug we re the world s greatest country and we know it i love the usa it gave me life an education role models and a philosophy and if you think we re stupid or decadent just try fucking with us NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied brian sez vocera communications has developed what is essentially a star trek tng style lapel communicator device that uses wifi to transmit voice across networks the vocera communications system consists of vocera server software residing on a customer premise server and vocera communications badges which operate over a wireless lan NUMBER NUMBERb the badge which weighs less than NUMBER ounces includes a microphone and speaker lcd readout to display text messages and an NUMBER NUMBERb wireless radio it can be clipped to a shirt pocket or collar or worn on a lanyard link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks brian NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date thu NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt daypop NUMBER is back _ye hi _ NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt fred grott how to keep rdf and rss straight NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt mixed news from yesterday s heart checkup first i went seven minutes on the treadmill that was pretty good my heart was racing like it hadn t since i was in college they also did an extensive ultrasound on my carotid arteries NUMBER they re in the neck and supply my head with blood more good news there they re clear free of plaque healthy not diseased NUMBER so it appears i just have coronary artery disease not general artery disease that s good because there would be a risk of stroke if they were sick and not a whole lot they can do about it as they can with the heart now there was some not good news a small part of my heart isn t working very well there are a few possible reasons for that some fixable some not i asked the doctor does this mean i m going to die sooner and he said no does it mean i have to restrict what i do he said no so what does it mean really not much other than i should watch as before for recurring symptoms the ones that brought me into the hospital in june if they come back we ll do an angiogram and maybe an angioplasty but the likelihood of another bypass because of this is small that s quite a relief i don t like the idea of part of my heart not working but what can you do about it NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt jon hanna on the rss dev list says NUMBER that rss was not designed to be of any particular use to bloggers aggregators or metadata providers this is not true half of rss NUMBER NUMBER was scriptingnews format NUMBER which was totally designed to model a weblog in xml NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt ed cone NUMBER the house subcommittee on courts the internet and intellectual property will hold a hearing on piracy of intellectual property on peer to peer networks at NUMBERam thursday september NUMBER NUMBER rayburn house office building the berman coble bill will be discussed the hearings are open to the press NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt gracie allen NUMBER never put a period where god has placed a comma NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt great email NUMBER from the riaa s hillary rosen to execs at yahoo real aol and microsoft on how to crack down on the millions of morpheus and kazaa users is this for real NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt wired NUMBER stronger ties between isps and file trading companies could bolster kazaa s defenses NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt ben silverman the publisher of dotcom scoop says the rosen email is real and part of a confidential internal memo NUMBER that outlines the riaa s legal strategy re kazaa music city and grokster NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER you can see cory doctorow explain the problems with the berman bill while his host subscribes to the eff action center on techtv NUMBER if you ve got windows media player if you re on windows you can also hear them the mac version doesn t seem to have the codec for the sound img URL the internet archive bookmobile starring the kahles NUMBER seth NUMBER i had a dream that i went to d c to hear the eldred argument and also dropped by a party to celebrate it y dream supreme court was definitely going to reverse the court below if only because the solicitor general in my dream had hardly found anything good to say about the ctea _ adsit omen _ donna of copyfight linked to my fair use notes NUMBER an archived stream of the tauzin hearing will be available soon NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date wed NUMBER sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt john robb NUMBER yesterday at t upgraded my cable box to a digital system NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER morten frederiksen has taken a first stab at a real time social network explorer based on foaf files you could start on my profile NUMBER and explore from there or enter the url of your own foaf file at the bottom of the page it s heavy on tech details but you can easily see the potential here it s also a great way to debug your foaf file if you added anything manually now we need somebody to build a spider that follows foaf knows links and draws pretty social network diagrams so we can see the forest for the trees NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _mark tosczak_ a new way to read not see maps NUMBER NUMBER the map navigation software dubbed blind audio tactile mapping system takes digital map information and provides nonvisual feedback as a user moves a cursor across the map NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _paul ford_ falling off a truck NUMBER NUMBER in the last NUMBER days i fell off a truck and was dragged for NUMBER feet and was interviewed by an npr show those two facts are not related except that they both happened to me and made me queasy i also wrote a short plan outlining the rest of my life NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied amazing story about the dabba wallahs india s NUMBER year old meal delivery system that outdoes fedex using pictograms bicycles and largely illiterate but well compensated deliverypeople as part of the tiffin distribution process every day the meals are picked up from commuters homes in mumbai long after the commuters have left for work delivered to them on time then picked up and delivered home before the commuters return each tiffin carrier has painted on its top a number of symbols that identify where the carrier was picked up the originating and destination stations and the address to which it is to be delivered after the tiffin carriers are picked up they are taken to the nearest railway station where they are sorted according to the destination station at the destination station they are unloaded by other dabba wallahs and re sorted this time according to street address and floor the NUMBER kg crates of carriers carried on dabba wallahs heads hand wagons and cycles are delivered at NUMBER NUMBER p m picked up at NUMBER NUMBER p m and returned when they came the system relies on multiple relays of dabba wallahs and a single tiffin box may change hands up to three times during its journey from home to office link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks tom _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied a lot of people seem to be missing the point of phoenix as evidenced by the responses on mozilla news NUMBER and mozillazine NUMBER let me emphasize something here if you think mozilla s current ui is acceptable then you are clearly not the target audience for phoenix here is a quiz to test whether or not phoenix is the right browser for you the link toolbar is critical to my day to day use vital when using bugzilla doesn t everybody use bugzilla link what the sidebar is indispensable since i run at NUMBERxNUMBER resolution not cool enough since i can t float and dock all my panels and have splitters between all panels and see web page progress for individual html panels and check my email entirely from within sidebar and a waste of real estate form auto fill is not useful for me unless i can fill out NUMBER pages of personal information first should just happen automatically downloads should take place in a tree view with progress meters in the columns should be clearly visible and understandable toolbars should be dockable to all four corners of the screen be able to float outside the window be fully customizable such that i can make my own custom commands be able to edit existing buttons commands be able to create my own toolbars be able to put toolbars on the same line and be able to edit the submenus and context menus of items including the items on the menu bar and browse my file system and cook me dinner and wash my car and walk my dog and do my taxes and mow my lawn and be customizable within reason composer should always come with my browser i want composer options all over my ui everywhere not be part of a web browser mail should be part of my browser program aren t they the same app there is a difference be a separate application now to those people who want the full blown functionality of the mozilla trunk you can still get that with phoenix the idea is to relegate more features to the optional add on category if you want the link toolbar or the sidebar or mouse gestures or any other features you can download and install them yourself i expect phoenix will have a little add in manager that will facilitate this process there is currently an expectation on the part of an alarming number of people that every feature implemented by anyone should automatically be part of the default mozilla install download why a layered approach scales better you can then have a browser that can become as complex as you want to make it but the choice is left in your hands the geek features aren t inflicted on you by default finally remember that phoenix s ui is not controlled by netscape this is an opportunity for some of the core mozilla navigator developers to build the browser that they have always wanted to build without having to compromise the user interface to satisfy the various conflicting pressures exerted by factions within netscape NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied bug NUMBER has to do with enabling different toolbar modes it s a pretty basic browser feature that has been missing from navigator for years even simplified browsers like chimera have this feature neil did some excellent work in NUMBER and his code finally landed it naturally spiked startup time and window time slightly and so it ended up being backed out because of mozilla s no tolerance policy for regressions while this line in the sand policy is in many ways a good one i feel like it misses the point there is a natural tendency when designing applications to add features in every new version of the software only rarely do you see features removed with each passing version you get more and more bloated relying on faster machines and more memory to save the day who cares if the user interface is now full of NUMBER menu items you still support every last feature since version NUMBER NUMBER so no customers can possibly be dissatisfied you can really only cram so many features into a product before its size requirements and performance requirements have to change this is an obvious rule it s like you start with an empty elevator that says capacity NUMBER people the elevator stops at the first floor version NUMBER NUMBER and a bunch of people features get on continuing on its journey the elevator stops at the second floor and still more people get on the elevator is now full and it continues to the third floor version NUMBER NUMBER unfortunately the elevator is full but there are a bunch of people waiting at the third floor to get on some of them squeeze in anyway past the fat person from the first floor the mozilla sidebar feature who is taking up enough space for NUMBER people everyone wishes he d get off at the third floor or even the fourth floor but he doesn t someone the mozilla wallet feature from the second floor cuts one on the way to the third floor so he s useless and everyone wishes he d get off too he doesn t though nobody does people keep piling in at floor after floor until eventually the elevator support cable snaps and everybody dies we need to forcibly eject people from the elevator remove the features that nobody wants and replace them with the features that matter cull out the features that didn t work in mozilla NUMBER NUMBER and make sure they aren t there in mozilla NUMBER NUMBER make more of the features optional plugins so that geeks who want some of the more obscure features and that have powerhouse machines can go download them on their own only if we actively fight the trend towards bloat will we finally produce an awesome mozilla browser ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL duct tapers are mainstream bondage fetishists who tape each other up to walls and ceilings just to see if it will hold pervs link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks steve NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied tony davis wrote in his blog _all mozilla did is steal netscape s thunder _ true but if netscape had actually bothered to put valuable additions into its product then that wouldn t have happened similarly if netscape hadn t taken away valuable features from mozilla then maybe people would actually want to use netscape over mozilla ,0
url URL date not supplied blake blogs NUMBER about how mpt NUMBER wants mozilla to look just like msie i have to admit the evidence is pretty compelling i recall someone asking me do you really agree with mpt s top NUMBER list he s quoted you at the top of the list do i agree that those ten items mpt mentions are the top ten problems of course not no two people will have the same top ten problems also keep in mind that mpt and i can agree that something is a problem without necessarily agreeing on the solution to the problem maybe we have different ideas regarding how to solve a particular issue but we at least both believe it is an issue that needs to be addressed that s something to cover the list specifically navigator chrome structure while i don t necessarily agree with mpt s proposed default configuration i do agree that the chrome structure is painfully restrictive and that customizable toolbars need to be implemented in order for us to acquire the flexibility to deal with this problem speed can t argue with this except to say that cutting out a lot of the useless ui and features from the chrome helps substantially reduce bloat gain speed text editing if you use chimera on the mac you ll see that the textfield widget is easily the most painful part of the entire application it s buggy slow misbehaves and doesn t edit the way you d expect this is imo chimera s top usability problem message display yes no argument here search yeah it s a mess don t know if it would be in my top ten but it s a mess menu structure this gets back to my blog about how the apps should be separated the menu structure has been complicated in order to deal with multiple applications a clean separation naturally simplifies the menus e g you can eliminate the new submenu easily migration a problem but imo not one of the top ten facing mozilla context menus mpt complains about two click context menus and yet the os default on winNUMBER overwhelmingly is to bring up a context menu on a mouse up if you don t like it complain about winNUMBER but don t cite this as a mozilla usability problem when we re following the conventions of the operating system we simply listen for the wm_contextmenu message that message fires when winNUMBER wants to fire it validation err no not a usability problem to the average bear this is completely irrelevant preferences imo this should be much higher on the list preferences are a tangled pathetic mess again separating prefs for individual apps into unique dialogs would simplify things a great deal but we should also remove nearly half the preferences that exist from the gui mozilla is ridiculously overconfigurable NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied some of the words in the new shorter oxford english dictionary asylum seeker economic migrant bed blocking and stakeholder pension reflect the serious side of life bunny hugger a conservationist or animal lover chick flick a film appealing to women gearhead a car enthusiast and grinch a spoilsport or killjoy are entries in a more light hearted vein several entries are testaments to the popularity of science fiction among them tardis from the tv series doctor who jedi from star wars and klingon from star trek link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks mark _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied we re trying to decide if fogbugz NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER should support custom fields historically i am opposed to custom fields in principle because they get abused people add so many fields to their bug databases to capture everything they think might be important that entering a bug is like applying to harvard end result people don t enter bugs which is much much worse than not capturing all that information you can always page fault to get the information if the original report forgot it rather than having a field in every bug where you enter the version numbers of every dll on your machine this is an actual customer request information which is likely to be relevant only for a tiny percentage of bugs why not just have the programmer assignee look at the bug first and if they think it might be dll version related only _then_ bounce the bug back to the originator asking for the dll info similarly it s always tempting to add a field in which you ask for the os version in which the bug occurred this sounds logical but trust me adding fields like this is guaranteed to do one thing and one thing only reduce the number of bug reports that get into the system in the first place only a small percentage of bugs are really os dependant and you can always include that info in the text description of the bug if it happens to be relevant but then how do you search for say all bugs which only happen on windows NUMBERse aha you can t ever even with the custom field because not every bug has been regressed on every version of every operating system so this search doesn t make sense in the first place the info wasn t captured do a full text search for NUMBERse and you ll find some of them life is imperfect life would be more perfect if every bug report included megabytes of information a complete dump of every byte on the hard drive and in ram on the computer in question and while you re at it a photograph of the tester s workspace but the goal of a bug tracking database is to _keep track of bugs_ which all else being equal takes priority over making it easy to find them i have heard countless stories of development teams where the bug tracking package was so high ceremony that people were afraid to enter bugs in the system because they didn t know what all those fields were the _real_ bug tracking happened in email post its and hallway conversations great a pretty common question we get on the customer service line is does fogbugz support custom fields rather than giving our usual answer no on purpose over the last few weeks i ve been saying can you please tell me what fields you would need we re trying to decide whether to implement that feature in NUMBER NUMBER and we want to know why people need it the interesting thing is almost all of the fields people ask for _are already in fogbugz _ and the other ones in my educated opinion shouldn t be fields and in fact our existing customers are certainly happy without custom fields one of our biggest site licenses was sold to a semiconductor company and i myself wanted to add a custom field for them to keep track of versions of the circuit design but i didn t and they never needed it even though they had been keeping track of it with the old bug tracking package which had custom fields and they are happy and keep buying more site licenses but the dilemma for us is that many customers are evaluating bug tracking software and they consider the lack of custom fields to be a major weakness in our product gosh even filemaker has custom fields righto it s true and who am i to tell my customers they are wrong one person who i was talking to yesterday would have used a custom field for something that we already have a built in field for this would have made their database confusing and inconsistent and would have definitely caused more problems than it solved but it s still rude of me to tell customers that we don t have that feature _for their own good_ even though it usually is and we re losing some sales because of it sigh i guess we could have a custom fields feature but hide it and make it so hard to use that people don t use it at least we won t lose any sales NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied eddie kessler describes programming at napster NUMBER ray ozzie has more on platforms NUMBER finding the right price point for a software platform is critical to me this sounds like a fancy way of saying i groove all that stuff about how platforms need to be cheap and ubiquitous but i can t bring myself to do it the price ray says must be high enough both NUMBER to maintain a perception of value in the platform and NUMBER to create significant margins well before ubiquity is assured so that the ecosystem is assured of the platform s ultimate viability what he doesn t mention if you lower the price on the only product you re selling you have a revenue hit which will not make your investors happy and you may run out of money and have to close but that must be what he s thinking NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied i feel so tremendously validated right now in all my criticisms of netscape vs mozilla i told netscape management that if the netscape beta shipped without popup blocking that cnet would write an article on it they didn t believe me or didn t care sure enough the article appeared right on time NUMBER i blogged about two main annoyances when installing netscape NUMBER the lack of popup blocking and all of the annoying advertising spam on the desktop and in the toolbars i warned netscape that they needed to take steps to correct this problem they didn t listen take a look at the cnet review NUMBER highlight that describes the bad part of netscape NUMBER NUMBER _displays aol ads everywhere doesn t let you turn off pop up windows like mozilla does devours NUMBERmb of disk space _ plenty of other engineers at netscape as well as managers complained about these problems and fought with those higher up to correct these problems we lost every battle the simple truth is that the people in charge of running the netscape browser are incompetent they don t understand how to make a good browser or they don t care their engineers tell them what they re doing wrong and they don t listen maybe you ll listen to the public how about eweek s article netscape NUMBER NUMBER shrivels under mozilla s shadow NUMBER are you paying attention now you ignorant stupid incompetent buffoons i told you so never felt so good maybe they will sit up and take notice now if they do well it s about fucking time and people wonder why i quit working for aol NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied jakob nielsen on offshore usability NUMBER to save costs some companies are outsourcing web projects to countries with cheap labor unfortunately these countries lack strong usability traditions and their developers have limited access if any to good usability data from the target users offshore usability is a specific case of the general offshore design problem put simply software teams are not successful when design or management are done in a different physical location than programming once i actually had a job where i was in new york my direct manager was in singapore _his_ manager was in hyderabad and if i needed any management input i had literally no choice but to go to the ceo because at least he was awake during the same hours as i was you can t get things done like this a good project team relies on hundreds of small interactions a day here in the fog creek offices we have NUMBER small conversations about fogbugz NUMBER NUMBER development every day what i don t understand is people who think it s ok to move the developers ten time zones away from their managers and expect good results those same people would scream bloody murder if you told them that you were going to send the whole _management_ team to bangalore or beijing NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied john robb has an interesting perspective on trust based targetted advertising NUMBER based on his experiences at gomez during the heady days of the internet gold rush nobody believes advertisements NUMBER any more there s a lot of evidence that advertising just doesn t work no matter how targetted so if you have a product to sell you have no choice but to get into the editorial side where consumers defenses are lowered product placements are one example of this there is an unfortunate tragedy of the commons here when advertising first rose to prominence advertisements _did_ work we hadn t built up our immunities yet as more and more advertisers used the opportunity of the medium to lie we learned not to trust advertisements but we still trust editorial and once editorial gets polluted by desperate marketers using pr instead of advertising to promote their message nobody will believe it either NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied i received some feedback in email from several of you actually regarding my earlier blog about the parents television council NUMBER which recently published a report in which they labeled buffy as the worst show on television for children let me clarify why this organization bothers me so much buffy as a show is clearly inappropriate for children under NUMBER and a game like gtaNUMBER is as well the ptc however has a clear agenda that goes beyond simply warning parents about the dangers of television shows or video games there is a belief on the part of the ptc that the hour from NUMBER NUMBERpm the first hour of primetime must be designated a family hour and that no offensive shows should air during that time i don t believe that it s the networks responsibility to restrict the kind of content aired during a particular hour of television the shows that air during primetime run the gamut some are family oriented and some aren t there is however no shortage of suitable content should parents and children wish to watch tv together during this hour it should be the parent s responsibility to police a child s television viewing if you don t want your kids watching _buffy the vampire slayer_ then don t let them but don t campaign to have the show removed from the air or shoved into a late hour that would only result in its cancellation just because you don t like its content if you don t think a show is appropriate don t let your kids watch it the ptc also seems to find shows offensive that are family oriented an example of one such show is _malcolm in the middle_ i would hardly call this show inappropriate for kids apparently the only shows that the ptc deems appropriate are those that have been sanitized to match their ultra conservative agenda even then i wouldn t really mind but the idea that all other shows must be relegated to some later hour is just ludicrous NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some ugly guy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some stoner ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL bostonglobe ,0
url URL date not supplied daniel berlinger has noticed NUMBER that mac software shops are starting to move to os x only development this makes sense for two reasons first most people who pay for software have new computers so while os x may only have a small fraction of the installed base it has the majority of the population of people who are opening their wallets second if os x isn t successful the mac is _ over_ it s not like system NUMBER is getting any more popular then again there are very few conditions under which it is actually the right business decision to develop software for the macintosh developing for the mac is not a whole lot different than creating a web site _that only works on netscape_ given the market share of macs NUMBER about NUMBER NUMBER and the market share of netscape NUMBER about NUMBER NUMBER that is not a silly comparison robb beal wrote NUMBER try this test go to a venture firm angel or big company with a mac os x product concept prototype do they consider the fact that it s a mac application a net plus no well _duh_ your product would have to appeal to _NUMBER times more mac _users_ _ as a percentage than windows users just to break even in other words if your windows product appeals to NUMBER in NUMBER windows users you have to appeal to NUMBER in NUMBER mac users to make the same amount of money now you may want to make an _emotional_ appeal to developing for the mac that s fine if you like macs and you re doing it for fun more power to ya but as long as we re talking _investment_ you have to tell me why you re going to get NUMBER times as many users maybe there s less competition in your category on the mac maybe you re in a niche like graphics where it seems like macs dominate they don t it just seems that way because the elite graphics people in big american cities use macs maybe your product can t sell to mixed environments unless it runs everywhere but if you want to make an investment in mac software be prepared to demonstrate how you re going to overcome that magic NUMBER multiplier NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL yahoo ,0
url URL date not supplied test your knowledge with this set of movie quotes i ll be back in a couple of days with the answers did iqs just drop sharply while i was away any fool can get into college only a select few can say the same about amanda jones my dear since eve picked the apple no woman has ever been taken entirely unawares this is tommy he tells people he s named after a gun but i know he s named after a famous NUMBERth century ballerina when one woman strikes at the heart of another she seldom misses and the wound is invariably fatal i ve never been alone with a man before even with my dress on with my dress off it s _most_ unusual you re nothing to me now you re not a brother you re not a friend i don t want to know you or what you do i don t want to see you at the hotels i don t want you near my house when you see our mother i want to know a day in advance so i won t be there kids NUMBER seconds of joy NUMBER years of misery sucking all the marrow out of life doesn t mean choking on the bone a hundred million terrorists in the world and i gotta kill one with feet smaller than my sister mother i do not need a blind date particularly not with some verbally incontinent spinster who drinks like a fish smokes like a chimney and dresses like her mother have you ever seen a body like this before in your life she happens to be my daughter oh then i guess you have i m not a smart man but i know what love is of course you won t be able to lie on your back for a while but then you can lie from any position can t you the fact that you prevented it from happening doesn t change the fact that it was going to happen women need a reason for having sex men just need a place you are not special you are not a beautiful or unique snowflake you are the same decaying organic matter as everything else looks like i picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue the issue is not whether you are paranoid look around you lenny the issue is whether you are paranoid enough inconceivable you keep using that word i do not think it means what you think it means enjoy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL msnbc ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the second of our series from the gdc europe we talk with microsoft s bill fulton about usability testing for games scee s zeno colaco about pitching publishers and harvey smith of ion storm about emergent game design ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some gentleman ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER comment the success of the mass demonstrations against the vietnam war show why this saturday s stop the war march is so important says paul foot ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this feature excerpted from wolfgang engel s shaderx book from wordware publishing presents a simple shader trick that performs a good per pixel approximation of a non integer power function the technique works for input values between NUMBER and NUMBER and supports large exponents the presented shader does not require any texture look up and is scalable making it possible to spend more instructions in order to decrease the error or to reach greater exponents ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER money further evidence of a slowdown in the housing market emerged today as figures revealed a NUMBER drop in the total value of mortgages approved during august ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL the scotsman ,0
url eNUMBERcNUMBERcaNUMBERfcNUMBERaNUMBEReNUMBERfcNUMBERbNUMBER date not supplied it came out a while ago but ben hammersley reviewed amphetadesk and a few other free aggregators in his guardian article working the web newsreaders NUMBER in more timely news osdir NUMBER a repository of stable open source apps has reviewed amphetadesk NUMBER and labels it an URL preferred app they also give you the ability to rate amphetadesk NUMBER on a scale of NUMBER NUMBER you can see the current rating here NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBERchNUMBER NUMBEReshow NUMBERyour NUMBERsupport NUMBERfor NUMBERamphetadesk NUMBERc hNUMBER NUMBERe NUMBER URL amphetadesk ,0
url URL date not supplied URL ,0
url NUMBEReNUMBERbNUMBERbNUMBERcNUMBERbNUMBERbNUMBERbNUMBERfNUMBER date not supplied since the amphetadesk source code is so easily modifiable on any platform i ve been seeing some interesting hacks and modifications lately the most powerful of them is l m orchard s newest template NUMBER which provides an insane amount of new features including hiding old items click counting and an outline based format more than likely a revised version of his hack will appear as a selectable template in the next version amphetadesk vNUMBER NUMBER also of interest is brian cantoni s ftpstore NUMBER _ ftpstore is a slight addition to the amphetadesk news aggregator the modified code will retrieve the personal channel list from an ftp location during startup and store it back to the same location during shutdown this provides a simple method to keep your saved channels in a network location if you use amphetadesk at home and at work for example this feature will let you keep your list of channels in sync _ it s a major improvement for amphetadesk users with multiple machines NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied URL ,0
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url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER got a stock ticker for which you d like to have an rss news feed help test the beta rss feeds we ve put up o yahoo finance take your favorite ticker say yhoo and put this url in your news aggregator ,0
url URL date not supplied URL ,0
url URL date not supplied nigerian researchers say their study negates arguments used to defend the practice which is still widespread in africa ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dan thinks it is evolution to me it s stupidity laziness and apathy i have to respectfully disagree or maybe i m just being stubborn for whatever reason whenever i get e mail from someone who writes ur instead of you are or ,0
url URL date not supplied a hardy microbe that can withstand huge doses of radiation is most likely to have evolved this ability on the red planet argue scientists ,0
url URL date not supplied an influential think tank warns that regime change could disperse weapons stockpiles into the murky world of global terrorism ,0
url URL date not supplied a new analysis of satellite images shows regeneration of once arid lands across the southern sahara making farming viable again ,0
url URL date not supplied males suffer more parasitic infections than females this could help explain why they die younger say researchers ,0
url URL date not supplied millions of tiny fat droplets are thought to damage the brains of most heart surgery patients sonic waves may help ,0
url URL date not supplied over the last century an extra NUMBER NUMBER suicides occurred under tory rule in the uk a similar effect is apparent in australia ,0
url URL date not supplied a genetically engineered yellow fever vaccine shows promise in animal tests if fast tracked it could soon be available for humans ,0
url URL date not supplied british scientists vow to have their robotic probe ready for launch in NUMBER amid concerns over the project s finances ,0
url URL date not supplied shining a laser through a cheap little disc can generate an immensely powerful secret code they could be used to secure credit cards ,0
url URL date not supplied rings around distant stars betray small rocky planets say astronomers suggesting a census will soon be possible ,0
url URL date not supplied we are more unique than previously thought according to new comparisons with the genetic code of our closest relatives ,0
url URL date not supplied the controversial claim could be evidence of hidden extra dimensions and help a theory of everything fall into place ,0
url URL date not supplied new laws prompted by earlier cloning claims promise NUMBER years in jail for offenders but the blanket ban angers scientists ,0
url URL date not supplied the faint microwave afterglow of the big bang is polarised the discovery should help probe the birth of the universe ,0
url URL date not supplied tests for the infectious agent in people without symptoms do not reduce the deaths predicted larger studies are urgently needed ,0
url URL date not supplied the cargo vessel ran aground off a world heritage conservation site in south africa raging fires are hampering salvage attempts ,0
url URL date not supplied us officials have all but confirmed that the virus which has killed NUMBER people can be transmitted via donated blood ,0
url URL date not supplied the us air force is set to test the steering and control technique first used during the wright brothers famous flight in NUMBER ,0
url URL date not supplied it will be the only us state where medical researchers can use public funds to create embryos and extract stem cells ,0
url URL date not supplied a subconsciously perceptible pattern explains the mysterious appeal of a famous old japanese garden say researchers ,0
url URL date not supplied detailed guidelines for vaccinating all NUMBER million citizens within five days of an outbreak are being dispatched to every state ,0
url URL date not supplied it claims iraq is ready to use chemical weapons and is pursuing long range missiles but it lacks dramatic new evidence likely to win over war sceptics ,0
url URL date not supplied technical problems beat a transatlantic record attempt as the weather beats an altitude record attempt for now ,0
url URL date not supplied gory hieroglyphs found on a guatemalan pyramid support the idea of a superpower struggle at the civilisation s peak ,0
url URL date not supplied researchers say they have made at least NUMBER NUMBER atoms of cold antihydrogen analysing them may reveal why antimatter is so rare ,0
url URL date not supplied i just finished reading an article about mozilla NUMBER for salon com NUMBER this excerpt was rather amusing _it is a good question because in almost every way mozilla is a better browser than navigator for example netscape s best new feature tabbed browsing which lets you have several web pages open in the same browser window and allows you to bookmark all the pages under one name was in mozilla many months ago and the mozilla project that created it called multizilla already has an improved version available when asked about this yecies of netscape said that s true but the engineer who s working on it for mozilla is a netscape employee it was always done with the intention of fostering general browsing usability for netscape _ yes ok i suppose that s true if by netscape employee you really meant apple employee and by always done with the intention of fostering general browsing usability for netscape you meant was done in a weekend for mozilla because i thought multizilla was cool here s how the whole tabbed browsing thing happened one night i finally downloaded an extension called multizilla go check it out on mozdev org NUMBER i was particularly impressed with a feature contained in multizilla called tabbed browsing i started doing research and discovered netcaptor NUMBER a tabbed browser that embedded winie multizilla was cool but at the time suffered from two fundamental flaws that prevented the code from being incorporated into the mozilla tree the first was a ui flaw namely that at the time it had ripped off netcaptor down to the last context menu item the gui was similar enough that there would have been definite concerns about so obviously copying some of netcaptor s more obscure capabilities like sticky names and tab locking the second concern was that the tab behavior wasn t encapsulated cleanly into a widget i produced a simplified version of tabbed browsing on my own time did it in a weekend that removed some of the geekier netcaptor features and that encapsulated the tab behavior so that the changes to other navigator files would be minimal once i established that it didn t degrade performance in the single tab case i checked it in as an experiment the response was overwhelming as were the bugs that started being filed so much so that at first i wanted to back tabbed browsing out of the tree i was overruled by mozilla which turned out to be a good thing for all i think even with all the excitement and hoopla surrounding the advent of tabbed browsing on the engineering side and in the mozilla community netscape still didn t get it netscape marketing prioritized all sorts of useless work that nobody had even started above tabbed browsing in their marketing document they continued to do so for months simply not getting it it was this odd curiosity that one of their engineers had checked in and they didn t know what to make of it only after the press raved about it did netscape really jump on board i m sure netscape is doing the same thing now with popup blocking can t you just see it now we ll have a popup manager and a manager to manage the popup manager and twenty seven preferences for fine grained control of all aspects of popups can you believe how disfunctional netscape is when their engineers say you should do this or you should do that they get completely ignored or blown off but when cnet says we didn t like this or we didn t like that netscape scurries to meet their demands that is simply pathetic NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business black entrepreneurs face more problems in raising money for start ups than white or asian counterparts new report says ,0
url URL date not supplied a patented system allows drivers of hushed modern vehicles to enjoy the throaty engine sounds of classic cars all in synch with your driving ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so i called the power company promptly at NUMBERam to find out what they were smoking the allowed me to pay by credit card so that i could get reactivated today and pay a NUMBER reconnection fee for the privilege ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ve added a new blog category yahoo why because occasionally i post stuff about work so i might as well categorize plus some private e mail has convinced me that it might be a good idea you know who you are ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL azcentral ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some comic book guy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER first of all thanks for all the great feedback i see that a lot of folks are pulling it now i m working on some stats it ll be interesting to see which stocks bloggers tend to watch which aggregators they use ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER matt describes something i ve been experiencing a lot recently you know you read too many primary sources when you read an article on slashdot and think i read that yesterday yeah ever since i got into weblogs i don t rely ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER arizona republic ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL pravda ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER me ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ny daily news ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER back when NUMBERkb was more memory than any computer would ever need there was a time when memory managers didn t exist but gradually new computer systems came out with larger amounts of memory and designers discovered ways to eat up ram faster than any system could dish it out this discussion is based on tiburon s experiences in writing and rewriting the memory manager for madden nfl NUMBER to madden nfl NUMBER ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER creationists org ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER scripting languages allow rapid development of game behavior without the pitfalls that await the unwary c programmer using an existing scripting language saves the time and cost of developing a custom language and typically gives you a far more powerful language than you could create on your own python is an excellent choice for a game scripting language because it is powerful easily embedded can seamlessly be extended with c c code ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL cleveland ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it appears that hfb has an evil toilet it s a good thing that josh never met it she also found some amusing lines to use at work i could use a few of those myself it s not like we didn t ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with project budgets in the multiple millions of dollars and virtually no margin for error more and more development teams are under tremendous pressure to come out on top of the entertainment software market s cutthroat competition no team manager wants to contemplate dropping the ball when creating the vivid graphics necessary to help make a game a success electronic arts the sims franchise is an excellent example of this pressurized situation this article highlights the critical issues that govern the high volume asset production needed for today s most demanding games ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the northerner subscribe to our free email round up of the best of the northern english press ,0
url URL date not supplied URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER books fay weldon may have opted to be writer in residence at the savoy hotel in london but will self has chosen a different kind of residency ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL sports by brooks ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER whatever dude ,0
url URL date not supplied disney s put up a little brochureware site about its forthcoming and very exciting film based on the haunted mansion ride a followup to the country bears movie i may be the only adult in the world who enjoyed that one all that s there now is a downlaodable poster which is pretty keen except for this supercillious bit of legal crapola you have to click through to get at it img URL disney pictures hereby grants you a limited nonexclusive nontransferable one year royalty free license to use and display the images on your site in accordance with the terms below nothing herein by implication or otherwise shall grant you any rights other than as explicitly set forth below you shall receive html code and gif file the files from disney pictures to incorporate the images into your site you agree not to modify the files in any way acceptance and use of the files indicates acceptance of these terms of use if you do not accept these terms of use you must not use or display the files this license will commence when you receive the files and will terminate automatically one year later or immediately upon any violation of these terms of use also we reserve the right to terminate this license at any time in our sole discretion upon notice to you link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks amanda NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied this is the headline of the month possibly the year doctors grow pig teeth in rat intestines do we even need to read the story to understand it it s like a freaking _haiku_ of near singularity future shocky wonderment u s doctors said on thursday they have managed to grow living pig teeth in rats a feat of biotechnology that experts said could spark a dental revolution researchers at boston s forsyth institute said their successful experiment suggests the existence of dental stem cells which could one day allow a person to replace a lost tooth with an identical one grown from his or her own cells the ability to identify isolate and propagate dental stem cells to use in biological replacement tooth therapy has the potential to revolutionize dentistry said dominick depaola president and ceo of the institute that focuses on oral and facial science link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks dave NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the japan times ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some albino rhino ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL abc news ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dekalb daily chronicle ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL aintitcoolnews ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER last week my hands and shoulders were starting to really act up on me again the pain i will spare you the details of my emotions when work all day with pain and discomfort in what feels like my whole body tuesday i dragged myself to yoga class at the iyengar yoga institute of los angeles actually that s not quite true viridiana dragged me there look how messed up that is i only go when i m in pain and ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL cbc ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL cnn ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER orlando sentinel ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER stuff co nz ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bath chronicle ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER as many of you have noticed the feeds are off now will they be back on i hope so soon i m not sure what i will and can say is that the experience was very valuable for us ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER you are not still using sourceforge are you if you have any hopes that they are anything but yet another business giving away a free service then see this selling microsoft visualstudio on the open source development platform nice touch click on the image for the original screenshot ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some guy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it seems that my body runs on a NUMBER NUMBER hour clock usually tending closer to NUMBER hours this really drives me nuts sometimes scheduling is a real pain in the ass at times like when i m not even close to ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL x entertainment ,0
url URL date not supplied people using the drug for just one night could be affected researchers claim but others experts are highly sceptical ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER yesterday viridiana came to my place and dragged me out to look at the sky it was beautiful odd colors and light obviously we wondered what it was today jim explains it it was a rocket test from the vandenburg air force base very neat it was a bit too blurred out when i saw it and there was too much street light to make a good photo so i am happy to have found the photo from nasa ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it seems like attws will offer a service that ll tell you where your friends or children or spouse or whatever are i haven t seen it announced but from their explanation of rates and charges find friends service will only locate a compatible mobile device with mmode service that NUMBER has granted you permission NUMBER is turned on NUMBER is registered on the at t wireless gsm gprs network and NUMBER has not activated be invisible location services only provide the location ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rael is plagued by msie instability on mac os x i use a recent nightly build of chimera as my default browser NUMBER NUMBER has some issues with plugins or with quicktime anyway on NUMBER NUMBER but the NUMBER NUMBER builds are working great fast too mozilla is ugly msie is slow and unstable opera on os x doesn t render too many pages omniweb and icab are not keeping up chimera rocks i have used chimeraknight to do the updating it also makes ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _mark newhouse_ css design taming lists NUMBER NUMBER i ll demonstrate how to use css to bring unwieldy lists under control it s time for you to tell lists how to behave instead of letting them run wild on your web page NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest ivory coast coup could involve rest of the region in a bloodbath ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER jeremy writes about people who ignore basic language rules i entirely agree with him writing how r u NUMBERday is the best way to make me shift my attention and respect away from you really fast another pet peeve i have only been speaking english on a regular basis for a bit more than three years and even i can grok the difference between you are and your as mjd wrote on clpm and said in the yapc movie you ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it wasn t just the lack of wellies that made this protest different it was the mix of the marchers writes euan ferguson ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm rules out compromise on public service reform in hard hitting pre conference interview ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics she was vivacious he was mr grey theirs was a love no one imagined ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER uk latest sacked regulator accuses her of unbearable pressure ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER media it only took one column in a newspaper by rod liddle editor of radio s flagship new show to put the bbc under pressure jamie doward and vanessa thorpe report on unease within the corporation s top brass and how the affair could shape its future ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER comment prince charles s attempts to meddle in politics show how detached he is from real life says nick cohen ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if you ve been in los angeles for long enough to read this sentence chances are you ve spent more time stuck in traffic than you would care to consider that annoying fact of southern california life is only going to become more annoying and more of a factor with time which is the point of car trek tonight s edition of by the year NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER on kcet channel NUMBER which also looks at the phenomena of carcooning in which ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the oracle of google can answer multiple choice questions amazingly well who is the author of perl what family lives next door to the simpsons as the author points out on the about page this thing would be really useful in a who wants to be a millionaire type contest ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER football kolo toure was among the goals as arsenal gave leeds a good hiding at elland road ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER euan ferguson spends two days at the headquarters of a stationery supplier in slough and finds the team is much nicer than ricky gervais s gallery of grotesques sketches of pain NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it seems like attws will offer a service that ll tell you where your friends or children or spouse or whatever are i haven t seen it announced but from their explanation of rates and charges find friends service will only locate a compatible mobile device with mmode service that NUMBER has granted you permission NUMBER is turned on NUMBER is registered on the at t wireless gsm gprs network and NUMBER has not activated be invisible location services only provide the location ,0
url URL date not supplied using one species to develop the eggs of another could in future help endangered species and even women ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rael is plagued by msie instability on mac os x i use a recent nightly build of chimera as my default browser NUMBER NUMBER has some issues with plugins or with quicktime anyway on NUMBER NUMBER but the NUMBER NUMBER builds are working great fast too mozilla is ugly msie is slow and unstable opera on os x doesn t render too many pages omniweb and icab are not keeping up chimera rocks i have used chimeraknight to do the updating it also makes ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER you are not still using sourceforge are you if you have any hopes that they are anything but yet another business giving away a free service then see this selling microsoft visualstudio on the open source development platform nice touch click on the image for the original screenshot ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i am thinking about getting a new mac not any good reason for it though i ll try to wait it out for one of the new ibooks rumored for next spring no new powerbook next month if new models come out no i said no stop thinking about it don t do it i said don t do it no no it s a really bad idea don t geez stop it no not even if it has an even cooler monitor or a ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this monkey switch ad is too funny huge smile on my face it was the winner of a competition macrumors had set up via nathan ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER yesterday viridiana came to my place and dragged me out to look at the sky it was beautiful odd colors and light obviously we wondered what it was today jim explains it it was a rocket test from the vandenburg air force base very neat it was a bit too blurred out when i saw it and there was too much street light to make a good photo so i am happy to have found the photo from nasa ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dan rookwood and lawrence booth on how europe and the united states ended all square to set up a tense final day ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER reborn NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER anyone have a copy of gill sans or bell centennial i can borrow i wonder if i ll ever have NUMBER to spend on fonts update kevin marks NUMBER who is stupendously incredible for far more things than i can list here points out that it s _included with os x_ i knew mac os x included a lot of grat fonts NUMBER but i don t know how i overlooked this matthew carter i d be happy to pay you the two cents in royalties you probably get for selling NUMBER worth of fonts tufte notes terrie miller NUMBER first ammendement beer bash isync beta NUMBER guess they learned a lesson from ical is out NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied after the talk at ut austin i spent saturday at the turkey city science fiction writers workshop at bruce sterling s place turkey city is a venerable science fiction workshop that has spawned many good writers and a lexicon of science fiction critical terms that is the de facto standard for understanding what works and what doesn t in a work of science fiction squid on the mantelpiece chekhov said that if there are dueling pistols over the mantelpiece in the first act they should be fired in the third in other words a plot element should be deployed in a timely fashion and with proper dramatic emphasis however in sf plotting the macguffins are often so overwhelming that they cause conventional plot structures to collapse it s hard to properly dramatize say the domestic effects of dad s bank overdraft when a giant writhing kraken is levelling the city this mismatch between the conventional dramatic proprieties and sf s extreme grotesque or visionary thematics is known as the squid on the mantelpiece card tricks in the dark elaborately contrived plot which arrives at a the punchline of a private joke no reader will get or b the display of some bit of learned trivia relevant only to the author this stunt may be intensely ingenious and very gratifying to the author but it serves no visible fictional purpose attr tim powers i had the cold from hell all weekend and i m jetlagged but i wanted to get some links up before i hit the sack until tomorrow link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied i ve been in austin all weekend on friday i spoke at the university of texas about eff issues jon lebkowsky was there hell he organized it and he blogged the hell out of the talk entertainment industry has tradition of attacking technology the piano roll the radio sued by vaudeville television would destroy cinema the betamax affair the latter being the first consumer vcr in betamax case argued that the ability to make a full copy of a broadcast work would not be a fair use in terms of copyright it was illegal enough that the vcr should be kept off the market they argued the supreme court got the case and the thing that shook out of it was the betamax principle a technology is legal so long as it has substantial non infringeing uses this principle is under attack digital millennium copyright act NUMBER illegal to defeat a copyright measure regionalization system for dvds this is a control that limits distribution john johansen in norway figured out how to break the content scrambling system and allows you to move from one region to another override copy protection it was called decss johansen is facing trial for creating a piece of code link NUMBER wes blogged it too NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL stefan sez my brother s friend sue plays with high voltage the linked to page shows the gadget she used to photograph high voltage discharges in water link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks stefan _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER no retreat on pfi unions are warned ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sinn fein president accused of setting up ira cell to kill informers ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER arts fourth art raid on philanthropist s home once targeted by the ira and dublin gangster martin cahill ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER money struggling mutual insurance society admits to scale of mis selling ,0
url URL date not supplied professionals are asking amateurs to sign up and help them glean valuable information about planets orbiting distant stars ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it is eight years since botanist david bellamy made a tv series what went wrong asks simon hattenstone quizzes NUMBER crossword NUMBER interactive guides NUMBER steve bell NUMBER weblog NUMBER other news and comment biggles airways plan to put raf into tourism business NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business city and wall street are sceptical of plan to prevent more countries slipping into argentina style crisis ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this monkey switch ad is too funny huge smile on my face it was the winner of a competition macrumors had set up via nathan ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER you are not still using sourceforge are you if you have any hopes that they are anything but yet another business giving away a free service then see this selling microsoft visualstudio on the open source development platform nice touch click on the image for the original screenshot ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics edwina currie sad and indignant at hearing john major s admission of shame at their four year affair ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER yesterday viridiana came to my place and dragged me out to look at the sky it was beautiful odd colors and light obviously we wondered what it was today jim explains it it was a rocket test from the vandenburg air force base very neat it was a bit too blurred out when i saw it and there was too much street light to make a good photo so i am happy to have found the photo from nasa ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER jeremy writes about people who ignore basic language rules i entirely agree with him writing how r u NUMBERday is the best way to make me shift my attention and respect away from you really fast another pet peeve i have only been speaking english on a regular basis for a bit more than three years and even i can grok the difference between you are and your as mjd wrote on clpm and said in the yapc movie you ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER internet news can freeserve hold on to its position as the isp that most britons dial up to asks kate bulkley ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i like kasia s latest idea let s all try that but not on the same day maybe we should all use our birthdays as the basis since i was born on june NUMBERth i ll be stupid on the NUMBERth of every ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER strangely i managed to get up before NUMBERam on a sunday without the aid of an alarm clock not sure how that happened i had some breakfast muffin with jelly and peanut butter and strawberry drink while catching up on ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i am thinking about getting a new mac not any good reason for it though i ll try to wait it out for one of the new ibooks rumored for next spring no new powerbook next month if new models come out no i said no stop thinking about it don t do it i said don t do it no no it s a really bad idea don t geez stop it no not even if it has an even cooler monitor or a ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it seems like attws will offer a service that ll tell you where your friends or children or spouse or whatever are i haven t seen it announced but from their explanation of rates and charges find friends service will only locate a compatible mobile device with mmode service that NUMBER has granted you permission NUMBER is turned on NUMBER is registered on the at t wireless gsm gprs network and NUMBER has not activated be invisible location services only provide the location ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i forgot to write this up yesterday and didn t feel like forging the blog entry date anyway while taking a break from writing the book i tried to finish up the work on URL before i ship it off to ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest israel pulled its tanks and soldiers out of yasser arafat s west bank headquarters yesterday ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if you ve been in los angeles for long enough to read this sentence chances are you ve spent more time stuck in traffic than you would care to consider that annoying fact of southern california life is only going to become more annoying and more of a factor with time which is the point of car trek tonight s edition of by the year NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER on kcet channel NUMBER which also looks at the phenomena of carcooning in which ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the oracle of google can answer multiple choice questions amazingly well who is the author of perl what family lives next door to the simpsons as the author points out on the about page this thing would be really useful in a who wants to be a millionaire type contest ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rael is plagued by msie instability on mac os x i use a recent nightly build of chimera as my default browser NUMBER NUMBER has some issues with plugins or with quicktime anyway on NUMBER NUMBER but the NUMBER NUMBER builds are working great fast too mozilla is ugly msie is slow and unstable opera on os x doesn t render too many pages omniweb and icab are not keeping up chimera rocks i have used chimeraknight to do the updating it also makes ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _dean allen_ about the author NUMBER NUMBER the funniest thing dean has ever witnessed was some footage of narcoleptic dogs in a nova documentary on sleep disorders NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _heather hamilton_ about NUMBER NUMBER i am that girl NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _jason gurley_ rap sheet NUMBER NUMBER i once played drums in a band with no name that never played a single gig anywhere NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the antikythera mechanism recovered off a sunken ship in greece in NUMBER is thought to be a clockwork device to calculate the orbits of the celestial bodies new analysis of the remaining fragments shows that it was wicked cool the greeks believed in an earth centric universe and accounted for celestial bodies motions using elaborate models based on epicycles in which each body describes a circle the epicycle around a point that itself moves in a circle around the earth mr wright found evidence that the antikythera mechanism would have been able to reproduce the motions of the sun and moon accurately using an epicyclic model devised by hipparchus and of the planets mercury and venus using an epicyclic model derived by apollonius of perga these models which predate the mechanism were subsequently incorporated into the work of claudius ptolemy in the second century ad a device that just modelled the motions of the sun moon mercury and venus does not make much sense but if an upper layer of mechanism had been built and lost these extra gears could have modelled the motions of the three other planets known at the time mars jupiter and saturn in other words the device may have been able to predict the positions of the known celestial bodies for any given date with a respectable degree of accuracy using bronze pointers on a circular dial with the constellations of the zodiac running round its edge link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks mark _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _kevin fanning_ hallmark vs successories NUMBER NUMBER at successories you were mostly left alone there d be brainstorm meetings to come up with new topics to tackle howsabout diligence no i think we did that one already didn t we but mostly you could just hang around bang away at whatever ideas you had show your manager what you were working on and he she d give you feedback encouragement tell you to keep at it point to the poster of stick to it iveness on their wall yes we had our own brand of successories posters hanging everywhere i mean why not and give you the thumbs up NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied dan gillmor interviewed jack valenti NUMBER last week in his column and did the impartial thing representing valenti s beliefs as fairly as possible this week dan takes valenti s arguments apart looking at what hollywood s agenda really entails so the movie and music companies are going back to congress for another helping they are asking for laws that would force technology innovators to restrict the capabilities of devices cripple pcs and other machines that communicate so they can t make copies the copyright holders don t explicitly allow amazingly the entertainment industry also wants permission to hack into networks and machines they believe are being used to violate copyrights here is what it all means to protect a business model and thwart even the possibility of infringement the cartel wants technology companies to ask permission before they can innovate the media giants want to keep information flow centralized to control the new medium as if it s nothing but a jazzed up television instead of accepting as they do today that a certain amount of penny ante infringement will occur and then going after the major league pirates they call every act of infringement and some things that aren t infringement at all an act of piracy or stealing saying it doesn t make it so link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _paul ford_ east river unconsecration NUMBER NUMBER there are a lot of hearts under the east river and it took a long time for it to find mine NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL salon ,0
url URL date not supplied slashdot s reporting that according to the current ish of popular science an easter egg has been discovered in the transmission control software for the bmw mNUMBER the proper combination of commands to the electronically controlled manual transmission will cause the car to rev up to NUMBERrpm and drop the clutch are we sure that this is a feature and not a bug link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL nandotimes ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER treasury admits that growth targets set in march have been destroyed by the worsening global economy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tbo ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL localNUMBER ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sydney dispatch an afghan boy whose family was killed during massacres in mazar i sharif has been denied asylum in australia says david fickling ,0
url URL date not supplied after months of repairs to cracked fuel lines the shuttle prepares for lift off an onboard video camera will relay live footage ,0
url URL date not supplied the antiviral drug significantly reduces the spread of the incurable infection through sex ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER iraq muddles us resolve with positive talks in vienna ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL aintitcoolnews ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics michael portillo strode into the hostile territory of the labour party conference in blackpool last night to mock david blunkett as an authoritarian rightwinger ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER st petersburg times ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER julian glover who worked on john major s autobiography for two years on why edwina currie wasn t in it ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL yahoo ,0
url URL date not supplied URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL iol ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this monkey switch ad is too funny huge smile on my face it was the winner of a competition macrumors had set up via nathan ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some depraved farkette ,0
url URL date not supplied URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _margaret berry_ don t be rude part iv weddings NUMBER NUMBER there s a lot of room for error with invitations it s helpful to think of them as petite social landmines with quaint wax seals NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the cincinnati enquirer ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER charlotte com ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL reuters ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL smh com au ,0
url URL date not supplied the modified form of vitamin d could be an effective new treatment for osteoporosis says a us team ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER anyone have a copy of bell centennial i can borrow i wonder if i ll ever have NUMBER to spend on fonts matthew carter i d be happy to pay you the two cents in royalties you probably get for selling NUMBER worth of fonts update kevin marks NUMBER who is stupendously incredible for far more things than i can list here points out that gill sans which i was asking for earlier is _included with os x_ i knew mac os x included a lot of great fonts NUMBER but i don t know how i overlooked this _awesome _ tufte notes terrie miller NUMBER first ammendement beer bash isync beta NUMBER guess they learned a lesson from ical is out NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER clickondetroit ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some tv guy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL sacbee ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER arts the long running dispute between the widow of kurt cobain and the remaining two members of his band nirvana has been settled paving the way for a new cd ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER abc net au ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some guy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some farker s roommate ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER money up to NUMBER NUMBER former equitable life policyholders could be in line for compensation as a result of mis selling of policies ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER local library ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER jeremy writes about people who ignore basic language rules i entirely agree with him writing how r u NUMBERday is the best way to make me shift my attention and respect away from you really fast another pet peeve i have only been speaking english on a regular basis for a bit more than three years and even i can grok the difference between you are and your as mjd wrote on clpm and said in the yapc movie you ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _heather hamilton_ very best of the world s worst NUMBER NUMBER after watching last night s premiere of the very best of the world s worst drivers NUMBER i tried to figure out what it was about these very best worst drivers that made them the very best but not really _the_ very best because if they really were _the_ very best wouldn t they have been featured on the very best of the world s worst drivers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL the sun ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER media the race is on for the most coveted job in bbc news after rod liddle says he is stepping down as editor of the today programme ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL x entertainment ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some guy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER yesterday viridiana came to my place and dragged me out to look at the sky it was beautiful odd colors and light obviously we wondered what it was today jim explains it it was a rocket test from the vandenburg air force base very neat it was a bit too blurred out when i saw it and there was too much street light to make a good photo so i am happy to have found the photo from nasa ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest dalai lama s envoy hails first contact in NUMBER years ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER watch out yahoo shopping and other shopping meta sites google is at it again with google catalogs the only question in mind mind is this will it hit big this christmas shopping season or next year google product search and ratings ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business standard life finally capitulates and cuts payouts on millions of policies ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this is an issue that comes up all the time at work it is an issue for roughly four reasons yahoo is a freebsd shop someone has heard that mysql runs better on linux someone knows that we run some ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER philly com ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i am thinking about getting a new mac not any good reason for it though i ll try to wait it out for one of the new ibooks rumored for next spring no new powerbook next month if new models come out no i said no stop thinking about it don t do it i said don t do it no no it s a really bad idea don t geez stop it no not even if it has an even cooler monitor or a ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER society nurses and ancillary staff at a pfi hospital are set to win a legal battle over equal pay that will cost the hospital NUMBERm in back pay and add NUMBERm to its annual wage bill ,0
url URL date not supplied disney has named a new president of walt disney parks replacing paul pressler the exec who did his damnedest to ruin disneyland slashing spending at the expense of safety and employee satisfaction building the craptastical california adventure reducing the number of skus available for sale in the park stores and so on the new president james rasulo used to be head of euro disney link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER orange today co ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER canada com ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER charlotte com ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some dysfunctional woman ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER doc brown ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER comment the suppression of debate shows labour s leadership at its worst writes jonathan freedland ,0
url URL date not supplied night clubbers who swapped their glasses for contact lenses report big increases in physical contact with the opposite sex ,0
url URL date not supplied campaigners say this and other mega projects renege on promises made by african leaders at the world summit in johannesburg ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL the sun ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER an article titled mac poses as much of challenge to linux as to windows is both insightful and missing the point the general thrust of the article is dead on it s just the sort of stuff i ve been saying to folks ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER aaron warchalker will probably be on public radio s marketplace tomorrow evening i tried to cut down on the number of you know s but i didn t do too well i ll keep trying ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER you are not still using sourceforge are you if you have any hopes that they are anything but yet another business giving away a free service then see this selling microsoft visualstudio on the open source development platform nice touch click on the image for the original screenshot ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL yahoo ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER poynter org ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL mdn ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some guy with lice ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dpo ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER some game boy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if you ve been in los angeles for long enough to read this sentence chances are you ve spent more time stuck in traffic than you would care to consider that annoying fact of southern california life is only going to become more annoying and more of a factor with time which is the point of car trek tonight s edition of by the year NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER on kcet channel NUMBER which also looks at the phenomena of carcooning in which ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER canada com ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER uk latest potters bar claimants group investigates reason for accident as it dismisses railtrack s compensation offer ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the oracle of google can answer multiple choice questions amazingly well who is the author of perl what family lives next door to the simpsons as the author points out on the about page this thing would be really useful in a who wants to be a millionaire type contest ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dayton daily news ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rael is plagued by msie instability on mac os x i use a recent nightly build of chimera as my default browser NUMBER NUMBER has some issues with plugins or with quicktime anyway on NUMBER NUMBER but the NUMBER NUMBER builds are working great fast too mozilla is ugly msie is slow and unstable opera on os x doesn t render too many pages omniweb and icab are not keeping up chimera rocks i have used chimeraknight to do the updating it also makes ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL ncbuy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it seems like attws will offer a service that ll tell you where your friends or children or spouse or whatever are i haven t seen it announced but from their explanation of rates and charges find friends service will only locate a compatible mobile device with mmode service that NUMBER has granted you permission NUMBER is turned on NUMBER is registered on the at t wireless gsm gprs network and NUMBER has not activated be invisible location services only provide the location ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER katu ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER img URL homestar runner ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER one year ago today my now former manager told me to shut down my weblog and remove all traces of it from my server he tried to convince me that the internet was too small to mix the professional NUMBER and the personal NUMBER one year ago today i gave him my answer NUMBER and the rest is history NUMBER today to celebrate this anniversary i would like everyone to read my resume NUMBER admire this full screen picture of my cat NUMBER and link to this post NUMBER there are four lights NUMBER URL dive into python NUMBER URL dive into mark NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL dive into mark NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL dive into mark october NUMBER archives NUMBER URL my resume in html format NUMBER URL j NUMBER x NUMBER NUMBER URL permanent link to this post ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER new york times as a weblog NUMBER source code NUMBER comments appreciated yes i know userland had something like this NUMBER but as you can see it doesn t seem to be working anymore NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the joint hearing of the senate committee and senate select committee on the entertainment industry is underway in la investigating artists claims that the labels engage in unfair and corrupt business practices the first day s findings at the hearings are really quite remarkable by contract artists are prohibited from showing royalty statements to third parties normally this would not include their mangers lawyers consultants or others who could aid them in getting paid but apparently this is not necessarily the case senator kevin murray leading the initiative for artists rights claimed the that cary sherman chief counsel for the riaa himself said to him in an interview that riaa members the major labels would sue any artist that broke ranks and shared information with the committee this claim was rejected by sherman but supported by others in the room don henley among them outwardly dared his record company to sue him for bringing royalty statements to the hearing he presented his most recent royalty statement for hell freezes over which showed the panel that even though his contract called for a no more than a NUMBER reserve on sales of records shipped universal music had held back more than that for eleven pay periods roughly under three years and that even though his contract calls for no free goods in europe they had deducted NUMBER NUMBER in free goods charges to europe link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks paul _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the us has rejected an agreement between iraq and the united nations on arms inspections vowing to block the inspectors return unless they are backed with threats of military force ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER live online the observer s tracy mcveigh and experts tim brighouse and ann hodgson will be here on thursday at NUMBERpm to discuss the government s record post your questions now ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER thanks to an anonymous helper i ve mirrored all NUMBER iso images for red hat NUMBER NUMBER ohio URL ds NUMBER connection via sprint california URL multiple gigabit connections now be nice ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics for the labour leader in trouble there are usually two ways out faced with a restless party you can either cave in or stand firm writes jonathan freedland ,0
url URL date not supplied hundreds of us transfusion patients are set to receive red blood cells cleaned with compounds that inactivate viruses and bacteria ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest leading republicans side with the democrats over the president s war powers ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER wow check out western digital s drivezilla they ve announced NUMBERgb hard disks something tells me that i ll have my own terabyte by the end of NUMBER ,0
url URL date not supplied the new network aims to thwart hackers and beat technical problems that make such networks slow or unreliable ,0
url URL date not supplied a new internet worm marks a worrying crossover between virus writing and hacking say experts ,0
url URL date not supplied the french and the ipod aren t getting along the ipod outputs more decibels through its headphones than are legal in la belle france link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks ernie NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER david pogue is talking about mac in the past present and future mac market is growing it s a small part of a very large and growing pie so apple isn t dead and won t die but they ll never be the big ,0
url URL date not supplied eli the bearded sez ever wanted to see an international agreement there are an awful lot of them here and the ones i looked at were surprizingly readable i was looking for the balfour declaration the thing i saw cited as the start of israel recently suprizingly this document is only four paragraphs the oslo accords israel plo agreement of NUMBER is another thing much shorter than i had imagined link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks eli _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER talk join the discussion on the web s liveliest talkboards ,0
url URL date not supplied the t mobile sidekick the first commercial implementation of the wonderful danger hiptop pda phone is now onsale and the reviews are starting to appear as soon as i m in san francisco for more than a couple days straight i really think i m going to pick this up that s partly because it costs less than half as much as its current competitors NUMBER compared with NUMBER and up for the others in the same spirit t mobile will offer unlimited data usage on its new relatively high speed gprs network for NUMBER per month far below what a serious surfer would likely rack up under competing wireless data plans voice time is another story more on that later another reason i like the sidekick s prospects it was designed for and will be pitched to a very different market while vendors of the competing hybrids focus on enterprise customers the big businesses that are supposed to have deep pockets for this sort of thing even though most clearly don t at this point danger and t mobile are targeting in their own words internet savvy primarily urban young adults in the NUMBER to NUMBER year old demographic i am that demographic link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks steve NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER time to transform post war one size fits all public services urges pm ,0
url URL date not supplied the reaction that forms the potential carcinogen acrylamide in baked foods is revealed suggesting ways of reducing levels ,0
url URL date not supplied the new ish of strange horizons in out with an interview with bloodhag the most metal of the all the science fiction metal bands soon the spotlight comes up again the lead singer grabs the microphone this is frank bellknap long he yells and feverish launches into a lecture on long s oeuvre there can t be more than a handful of people on this earth who could get a beer sodden thrash crowd to listen to an english lit lecture thirty seconds later the audience is sufficiently educated and the guys begin to wail jake the singer holds the microphone over his head and belts out the song in a growling voice that s monster movie low no reason no corners he shouts two minutes later they re done with the pulps and ready to move on to the new wave our next song is about harlan ellison jake bellows and the geeks the hipsters the metalheads and the drunks let out a howl of mutual joy bl dhag note the dual umlauts hails from seattle describing themselves as edu core the band performs nothing but two minute thrash tributes to science fiction writers between songs the band pelts the audience with paperback books quizzes them on book titles and demands that the audience show their library cards their motto the faster you go deaf the more time you have to read link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks zed NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER musicdish first blood is spilled NUMBER back street boy kevin richardson testified that they have never received a royalty check so much for we re just trying to protect the artists eh wow the backstreet boys i mean janis ian was easy to dismiss but this is a whole nother ballgame wow NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i had to leave the conference after the first half of the day so that i can get some stuff done at work and some work on the book david pogue s keynote was excellent he knows the mac apple history ,0
url URL date not supplied the URL project a precursor to seti home that used volunteer computer time to attack giant sophisticated ciphers has cracked rcNUMBER i used to have half a dozen computers working on this on NUMBER jul NUMBER a relatively characterless piii NUMBER in tokyo returned the winning key to the URL keyservers the key NUMBERxNUMBERdeNUMBERdcNUMBERfNUMBERdNUMBER produces the plaintext output the unknown message is some things are better left unread unfortunately due to breakage in scripts dbaker s fault naturally on the keymaster this successful submission was not automatically detected it sat undiscovered until NUMBER aug NUMBER the key was immediately submitted to rsa labs and was verified as the winning key link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks dave NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied kevin free kevin mitnick and steve woz wozniak co hosted an episode of the screen saver on tech tv where woz autographed one of the laptops that kevin got arrested for using now that machine signed by both net celebs is up for sale on ebay this is the toshiba satellite tNUMBERcs NUMBER laptop computer seized by the fbi on february NUMBER NUMBER in raleigh nc during the arrest of the world s most celebrated computer hacker kevin mitnick the laptop is working and has been loaded with a fresh version of windows NUMBER a shrink wrapped version of windows NUMBER on floppy is included with the laptop the laptop is a NUMBERdx with a color lcd detachable trackball mouse at t NUMBER NUMBER pcmcia modem card power adapter and documentation in fbi evidence bags the laptop has been signed on the bottom by steve wozniak co founder of apple computer and says you ve got the whole world in your hands woz free kevin it is also signed by mitnick himself the system was shown on the september NUMBER NUMBER episode of the screen savers on techtv where the signatures on the bottom were authenticated in a special show hosted by wozniak and mitnick a tape of the show will also be included link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks jimbo _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER money britain s biggest building society has signalled it expects no let up in the runaway property boom ,0
url URL date not supplied mena sez we ve set up a trackback ping repository for attendees of o reilly s mac os x conference if you re using movable type or a trackback enabled tool you can ping the category relating to your osxcon specific weblog post link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks mena NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied hypocrites in the recording industry have been screaming about people stealing music all the while they ve been robbing cd buyers five of the largest u s distributors of pre recorded music cds and three large retailers agreed to pay millions of dollars in cash and free cds as part of an agreement on price fixing allegations link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the legendary clarion writers workshop of which i am an alumnus class of NUMBER has spun out another satellite branch clarion west in seattle has been going for some years now the new workshop clarion south will be held in queensland australia in NUMBER so that antipodeans can also attend science fiction bootcamp without travelling to america link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks pat _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER remember that saying from chaos theory about how when a butterfly flap its wings it can cause a hurricane a month later halfway around the world as several people have already noted google has made some major changes in their most recent update the weblogging community was hit hard for instance i used to be the NUMBER mark NUMBER i am now NUMBER the changes appear to be the result of an attempt to stop two phenomena explicitly selling ads based on pagerank NUMBER and google bombing NUMBER specifically google is now apparently cross checking link text with the linked site and discounting or ignoring links whose text does not appear in the linked site this all but kills off google bombing searching for go to hell NUMBER no longer takes you to microsoft com NUMBER searching for talentless hack NUMBER no longer finds ohmessylife com NUMBER although it finds a lot of people who were previously participating in the google bombing no definitive word yet on whether google is actively penalizing such sites unfortunately the algorithm tweaks necessary to stop these two techniques have caused a wide range of collateral damage apparently coming down hardest on medium to large sites that had previously been doing everything right as far as page structure link structure accessibility and general honest hard work putting together a usable and useful site the webmasterworld forums are alive with complaints and speculation new update pagerank death NUMBER september NUMBER google update discussion part NUMBER NUMBER let s find out what happened sept NUMBER update pt NUMBER NUMBER side note amongst the confusion it has been suggested that google is no longer indexing alt text in images i can confirm that this is absolutely false searching URL for gimli NUMBER finds my entry of july NUMBER NUMBER where gimli is mentioned only in the alt text of an image regardless google s search results in general appear to be significantly degraded in many key areas the forums are full of people complaining that spam sites doorway pages and obvious cloaking attempts which google used to be so good at filtering out are now popping up in top spots with disturbing frequency nobody in the forums wants to talk about which keywords they re tracking so i tried to find my own concrete example of crap search results it didn t take long searching for reservation hotel NUMBER brings up an empty sub page NUMBER of a hotel reservation company in italy NUMBER as the first result this seems unhelpful and unlikely to be relevant to the average us based consumer and google absolutely knows i m in the us based on my ip address searching for news observer nc NUMBER the news observer is a raleigh nc newspaper does find the news observer NUMBER but it also finds an internet betting spam page NUMBER at NUMBER and a non existent page NUMBER at NUMBER searching for eminem NUMBER gives us two generic portal pages a non existent site and a site that redirects to a site that continuously redirects to itself i am not making this up and this is just on the first page good thing i didn t care that much about eminem to begin with because google just isn t that helpful many people in the webmasterworld forums are now suggesting that URL NUMBER has better search results overall just as a single comparison their results for eminem NUMBER do appear to be much more relevant is this the beginning of the end of google s reign NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _heather hamilton_ hypochondriac NUMBER NUMBER it is because of my dog that i have been smitten with an ovarian cyst reg it is because of my dog that my husband can t breathe with phlegm free lungs i can safely blame the dog for everything NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied interview with cartoonist ted rall who has traveled to south asia recently and has tips on how to deal with bribe hungry border guards and the like rall now i realize that s just the way it is and i know how to do it and get away without paying a bribe or paying something very modest you have to show them that you know the routine and that you know you don t have to give them anything and just have a low key demeanor but if you get angry that s just going to make things worse for you you get out of your vehicle and you walk up to them you don t try to avoid these guys you don t try to avoid their eyes you go up with a big smile give them a big handshake and sort of rub their shoulders and say hey great to see you you re my new best friend for the next five minutes groth basically act like a used car salesman rall it s exactly like that you always carry cigarettes you offer them a cigarette and you say hey what s goin on how s it goin great here s my documents how s the road just small talk because these guys are bored they re in the middle of nowhere and you re sometimes the only vehicle they ve seen for many hours they re often very drunk so you just have to be cool link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rendering polygons is not as easy as it used to be the reason being the vast amount of different rendering techniques methods and algorithms available not only is choosing the right ones a problem even worse all that are selected need to work together there are some algorithms which simply do not work together and in that case only one may be used whilt the other one needs to be replaced witha more compatible method this feature explores how factor NUMBER approached the problem when developing rogue leader for gamecube ,0
url URL date not supplied nyt op ed piece about this newfangled os called linux and how it is developed using something called the open source method this is the paper to go to for breaking news folks link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks dave _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied keys encoded in photons of light are sent NUMBER kilometres through air an important step towards a secure global communications system ,0
url URL date not supplied all through october berkeley s mathematical sciences research institute is hosting cinemath a mathematics film festival permutations and configurations a calculated cinema in this avant garde subset of cinemath we explore films that have been constructed using mathematical concepts both simple and complex geometric permutations musical frameworks even topography are among the strategies that have been employed to compose and sequence film frames filmmakers such as oskar fischinger and walther ruttmann created some of the earliest avant garde films by multiplying dividing and otherwise transforming abstract images including spirals rectangles and circles to produce dynamic rhythms and harmonies today such visual music and motion graphics are the currency of digital graphics anthony mccall s film performances such as line describing a cone create NUMBER d geometric shapes into which the viewer can literally step we also explore films by pioneers of machine generated and computer produced animation norman mclaren james and john whitney stan vanderbeek as well as works by contemporary animators who use the computer to either generate or pattern images larry cuba paul glabicki james otis peter kubelka taka iimura and standish lawder use the frame as the unit with which they create editing patterns while kurt kren and paul sharits reckon on arithmetic systems to variously calculate compositional or editing patterns bette gordon hollis frampton and bruce elder figure in algorithms group theory and set theory to graphically enliven the frame or to structure their films while no mathematical knowledge is required to enjoy these films we count on you to try to calculate the mathematical systems employed link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks jef NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest the ethnic greek and turkish leaders of cyprus will hold crucial talks today in an effort to reunite the island ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business federal prosecutors in the us have filed charges against the highest ranking enron executive yet ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i realized something the other day i ve been programming in perl for roughly seven or eight years now maybe nine it s hard to remember for sure but at some point it lost its shine it used to be a lot ,0
url URL date not supplied dismuke has a NUMBER hour radio station and realaudio archive of NUMBERs and NUMBERs music some nice stuff in here also check out my favorite music archive red hot jazz NUMBER link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied rob pringles can flickenger and others at the o reilly os x con have tracked down the cause of the annoying flakiness in the wireless network here every NUMBER or NUMBER seconds you start getting connection refused messages from your browser and other net utilities it turns out that running the great network spy app etherpeg NUMBER or other promiscuous network sniffers and the built in firewall in os x at the same time causes your computer to begin intercepting every packet sent out on your segment of the wireless network and respond to it with a rejected message so today rob and everyone else who knows about this is going to run around and tell people running etherpeg to _turn off the firewall_ and vice versa ah fickle networking you are such a stern mistress link NUMBER don t do the brown wifi the brown wifi is bad _thanks rob _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _leslie harpold_ this too shall pass NUMBER NUMBER there s a rumor that my possessions and i will be reunited in about a week NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _ian hickson_ my faceless enemy has been defeated NUMBER NUMBER my arch nemesis over the last couple of weeks has been the very poorly documented hebrew traditional numbering system NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL the t mobile sidekick and other instances of the danger hiptop pda phone are being promoted as mobile blogging tools link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via hack the planet NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i think i m going to become one of _those_ people you know one of those people who has a NUMBER semantic web NUMBER category on their weblog this will be a geek purity test question someday onward _phil ringnalda_ fun with rdf NUMBER NUMBER rdf can actually be fun as long as you don t foolishly invest too much ego in trying to store rss NUMBER NUMBER or wander off into flame wars NUMBER from which we find _shelley powers_ the rdf query o matic NUMBER and the rdf query o matic explained NUMBER NUMBER the query o matic accepts the name of an rdf file any valid rdf file and an rdfql rdf query language query and will print out a test value found as a result of that query NUMBER _marcus campbell_ NUMBER my foaf autocreation script is moving along nicely NUMBER it s now looping through my opml blogroll file checking the first load of bites in people s pages for head linked foaf files grabbing certain elements from these files if they have one and spitting them out into a brand new foaf file for me NUMBER _joe gregorio_ the well formed web NUMBER NUMBER after spending some time badgering poor bill kearney for a concrete benefit of having rdf in rss NUMBER NUMBER and not getting a really satisfactory answer i went back and read paul ford s essay again i wanted to get that old religious feeling back again it didn t work the magic was gone NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied dan gillmor s column this week is all about apple s burgeoning resistance to the hollywood onslaught on general purpose computing intel s doing it advanced micro devices is doing it microsoft is doing it apple computer isn t what s apple not doing it s not at least so far moving toward an anti customer embrace with hollywood s movie studios and the other members of the powerful entertainment cartel link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rio dispatch NUMBER NUMBER candidates standing in the brazilian elections get a party political broadcast each says alex bellos ,0
url URL date not supplied airlines are facing fresh calls to fit fuel tank inerting systems following warnings from boeing about potentially faulty fuel pumps ,0
url URL date not supplied contrary to popular belief a new study shows women receive the same mental health boost from marriage as men ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER arts robbie williams has become one of the highest paid singers in the world ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bill clinton and a tale of two tonys howard jacobson on his first labour party conference ,0
url URL date not supplied from ed felten s freedom to tinker site regarding the tinkletoonz musical potty this handy toilet training aid offers a magical musical land of potty training by playing a tune whenever liquid is deposited in it since it plays digital audio it qualifies for regulation as a digital media device under the hollings cbdtpa if the cbdtpa passes any newly manufactured tinkletoonz musical potties will have to incorporate government approved copy protection technology link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER bill clinton uses his labour conference speech to urge george bush to persevere with the un ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the business news of the day has long been telling us that we re in a very slow economic period yet i ve received multiple job solicitations recently not random head hunters or anything people i know who know me relatively well want ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER thank you NUMBER i needed that we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER talking about his mainframe background and roots in computing he played a lot on the big iron and sorta missed the pc revolution he wasn t terribly interested in pcs for quite a while then he got to play with one ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER as noted in the inluminent weblog there don t seem to be many bloggers at osxcon at least they re not blogging that s rather disappointing they were strong at oscon and the emerging technologies conference damn i wish i had the foresight ,0
url URL date not supplied and so many north sea harbour seals have been killed that a repeat outbreak in the NUMBER breeding season is highly unlikely ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics ex lover tours studios to denounce former pm ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER last week i noticed that i was on dave s radar now that i ve caught up on blogging it seems that i m on windley s radar too he picked up on my freebsd linux mysql story and that provoked an interesting discussion of ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER which was the better ui mac os NUMBER mac os x windows nobody can agree tim o reilly didn t like mac os NUMBER he gets os x traditional mac users are a bit annoyed by os x they think it s a ,0
url URL date not supplied i ve been snowed under for the last four weeks working on the fogbugz NUMBER NUMBER setup program for various reasons none of the commercial setup toolkits wise installshield windows installer could do even NUMBER of what our setup program needed to do so i ended up writing it from scratch vc and mfc all the way it took longer than i expected because i had this weird conviction that the entire setup process should be completely reversable and as you go backwards through the wizard it should automatically and silently undo any changes it had already made so even if you re looking at the last screen if you decide you want to change where to extract the files you can just back up and change it and everything moves and all the old files you overwrote are put back and all the windows accounts you created are uncreated and all the permissions we granted are ungranted and the sql database you made is unmade and so on the end result is a great setup program but it may be a tad overkill if i have time i ll write more about what i learned one benefit of writing a setup program from scratch is that i don t have to have someone else s stupid cartoon of a computer and floppy disks in the upper right hand corner i used a photograph of the london skyline currently infested with cranes i took the picture from the cafe at the tate modern img URL fogbugz NUMBER NUMBER setup ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER washington has revealed its intention to use un weapons inspections as a possible first step towards a military occupation of iraq ,0
url URL date not supplied here s a brief interview with me interviewer if the boing boing zine and blog were tv characters who d they be and how d they get on mark the zine would be jethro bodine of the beverly hillbillies curious neophilic xenophilic gleeful and eager to adopt any new theory or conspiracy as the absolute truth the blog would be sherman from peabody s improbable history a traveler of time and space in search of beauty truth and the outre i think jethro boing boing and sherman boing boing would be great pals jethro would invite sherman s dog mr peabody to go raccoon hunting with him and sherman would send jethro NUMBER years into the future to hang out at the playboy mansion link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER java has been successful everywhere but the desktop or at least that s what people here it s big on the server and that downs out the desktop news what else went wrong applets microsoft s battle with java for the longest time ,0
url URL date not supplied mark and i were two of many wonderful contributors to a new book from techtv called the catalog of tomorrow it s like a whole earth catalog for futuristic technologies with great illustrated spreads throughout you can get a peek inside at amazon NUMBER and buy from powell s or your other favorite indie store link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks andrew _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the launch is postponed until at least monday the first time bad weather in houston has delayed a shuttle flight ,0
url URL date not supplied we did a great panel on drm and the digital hub yesterday here at osxcon with tim o reilly victor nemachek from el gato makers of the eyetv digital tv recorder for the mac dan gillmor and jd lasica who s working on a book on fair use and copyfights glenn NUMBER NUMBERb networking news fleishman took great notes through the talk dan tim you re a content or copyright holder talk about these issues obscurity can be a tool something like NUMBERk books published in the us most books are forgotten after publication ravening copying theft is wrong most aren t pirated publishers puts book that someone sweated over for years on shelves for three months doesn t sell that s it and the author has no rights publishers keeps rights til out of print etc oblivion is fate of most books piracy would be the best thing for those books people wouldn t pirate them in general because people generally like to respect the rights of creators piracy is a marginal act it takes away some of the cream publishing won t go away but it will change the idea of who is a publisher early on in the web the idea was that everyone could be a publisher the way in which web sites interact with publishers is often very much like the way that book publishers try to get placement and position in bookstores publishing is aggregation people will re emerge as publishers will hollywood be the publishers of the future or will someone else users are voting by their use of programs like kazaa eventually media companies will adopt but if the changes are hardcoded into law then we re stuck for a long time with some mistakes link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via dan gillmor s ejournal NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER uk latest the government should immediately announce that britain will abandon nuclear weapons when the trident missile system is phased out say a group of eminent scientists ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _phil ringnalda_ in an unrelated discussion about rss namespaces NUMBER NUMBER looks like yet another person decided to switch to netnewswire lite does it come with crack or what NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this talk is not supposed to be technical or marketing but more of a ramble we ll see living above the curve bb is a strange company as they ve been mac only are have been in business for over NUMBER years ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER live online the observer s tracy mcveigh and experts tim brighouse and ann hodgson will be here on thursday at NUMBERpm to discuss the government s record post your questions now ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER education the scale of this year s a level crisis is even worse than expected the inquiry into claims of grade fixing has revealed ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER first blood is spilled at record industry hearings NUMBER NUMBER in a shocking statement made by back street boy kevin richardson he testified that they have never received a royalty check and that they only took a large advance after their third hit album in a row failed to earn them a penny in royalties NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so i was researching the history of the tilde because d told me that her company just installed a new web proxy that denies access to any url with a tilde in it presumably because the presence of a tilde indicates with remarkable accuracy a personal site and apparently her employer believes that reading personal sites is not an appropriate use of company time which to be honest is probably accurate given the nature of her work but never mind that i don t want to talk about corporate politics i want to talk about the tilde every command line loving geek will tell you that stands for NUMBER home directory NUMBER and cd will take you to your home directory cd username will take you to someone else s except on mac os x where it will take you to their public file sharing directory it is from this heritage that we can trace the present day practice of using tildes in urls to denote personal pages since one single system wide configuration allowed individual users to have their own web sites by storing files in their own home directory or more commonly now that apache has taken over the world in their public_html subdirectory except on mac os x where if you turn on web sharing and point your browser to http localhost username you re actually being served files from that user s sites directory within their home directory but i don t want to talk about mac os x i want to talk about the tilde as with so many other things i find that jukka korpela NUMBER is the expert in this field jukka is no doubt a member of my karass NUMBER a word which google old habits die hard NUMBER feels is best explained by the personal site of eugene wallingford which like jukka s home page can not be referenced without a tilde in fact jukka has written a lengthy treatise on why the tilde should not be used in urls NUMBER a treatise which i feel obliged to point out contains a tilde in its url clearly the tilde is underappreciated digging further we find this post of jukka s from NUMBER NUMBER in which we learn that the tilde was not meant to be the tilde at all but rather an odd character called the overline presumably to balance out the underline if indeed those sorts of things require balance there is balance in the universe to be sure but i am less sure that it eminates from my keyboard no matter the tilde was the tilde so that spanish typing types could type the ntilde now referenced in html as the named entity ntilde but somewhere along the line it morphed into a general purpose character with all sorts of geeky uses digging even further it appears that the tilde was originally an alternate for NUMBER then an alternate for and its life as an overline replacement came even later jukka confirms this NUMBER and adds a timeline NUMBER for NUMBER for NUMBER for overline then june NUMBER NUMBER the watershed moment in an xNUMBER committee meeting when it was proposed NUMBER as exclusively a tilde in usa to appease share NUMBER i can find no further reference as to what this acronym means or what this committee meeting was about the next reference isn t until NUMBER when the tilde was officially added to iso NUMBER NUMBER and now down the rabbit hole we go scouring usenet which the kids of yesterday called NUMBER deja news NUMBER and kids today call NUMBER google groups NUMBER we find a reprint of a NUMBER william safire yes _that_ william safire article on language NUMBER in which we learn that is officially pronounced NUMBER squiggle NUMBER this is confirmed by the jargon dictionary NUMBER to this very day i m not sure this is useful but i just thought it was cool to see william safire writing about the proper pronunciation of various ascii characters as early as august NUMBER tilde was included in the waka waka bang splat poem NUMBER in july NUMBER kermit gained support for filenames containing a tilde NUMBER in february NUMBER an editor s note to an otherwise unrelated article notes that fidonet supported ascii characters space through tilde NUMBER as early as january NUMBER less used the tilde to denote lines past eof NUMBER as early as july NUMBER troff supported the tilde NUMBER in november NUMBER a mod sources post refers to bourne shell enhancements history tilde job control NUMBER as early as january NUMBER tilde was included on the dec keyboard NUMBER and listed in the apl NUMBER character set NUMBER in april NUMBER tilde was causing bugs in vi NUMBER actually due to underlying bugs in csh in december NUMBER is officially pronounced NUMBER tilde NUMBER NUMBER prompting this typographical pun NUMBER and that s the earliest reference i can find so where does that leave us unsatisfied no doubt there is history here but there are gaps what happened at that watershed meeting in NUMBER how did the tilde rise to prominence in the NUMBERs when did it become a synonym for NUMBER home directory NUMBER when did it migrate into the world of web servers to provide a cheap and simple way of giving individual users their own web sites i don t know and the lateness of the hour prevents me from continuing my research a failing for which i apologize profusely goodnight goodnight may you dream of tildes stars and whorls NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _phil ringnalda_ hey radio this pre s for you NUMBER NUMBER you did update radio root after yesterday s fix for the double decoding bug in the aggregator didn t you NUMBER _brad choate_ sanitize plugin NUMBER NUMBER sanitize is a movable type plugin that allows you to clean html and other markup that might exist in an comment entry NUMBER _scott ambler_ the process of database refactoring NUMBER via john beimler NUMBER NUMBER a database refactoring is a simple change to a database schema that improves its design while retaining both its behavioral and informational semantics NUMBER _mac os x hints_ convert windows outlook mail to mail app NUMBER NUMBER converting the corporate windows user who has all their old email in pst files for years back help them on their way by getting their mail out of the proprietary pst format and into standards based mbox format NUMBER _shelley powers_ rdf query o matic light NUMBER and rdf query o matic light explained NUMBER NUMBER i slaved away this afternoon persevering in my work in spite of numerous obstacles sunshine cat on lap languor to bring you rdf query o matic light NUMBER _bill kearney_ rdf root NUMBER NUMBER this is a tool for radio userland using it will allow your radioNUMBER install to produce rss NUMBER NUMBER xml feeds NUMBER _paul ford_ borrowing a car NUMBER NUMBER give me a turkey sandwich NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so d ya remember that whole css debate that flared up about six months ago actually it flares up continuously in various circles in fact i think it s about time for it to flare up again in weblogging circles these things are inexorably cyclical css vs tables is the hemorrhoid of the web design world but i digress if you were around back then you will no doubt recall that i was in the pro css camp NUMBER so anyway d ya remember that argument that went something like NUMBER you should design with web standards and css because it will future proof your site for the pie in the sky future when people surf the web on mobile devices NUMBER well it s crap NUMBER there are lots of good arguments for designing with web standards and css automatically print friendly pages NUMBER dynamic style switchers NUMBER reduced bandwidth NUMBER and aiding and abetting accessibility NUMBER a topic which i claim to know a lot about NUMBER among others but NUMBER because it ll future proof your site for the next generation of mobile devices NUMBER is not one of them the theory is solid but apparently nobody told the makers of the mobile devices now that we have them how it was all supposed to work in practice oops NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _jeffrey zeldman_ party like it s NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER microsoft has redesigned its new layout uses font tags and other deprecated junk straight out of the mid NUMBERs when a wNUMBERc member company that helped create xhtml and css ignores or misuses those web standards on its corporate site you have to wonder who didn t get the memo NUMBER the new design also fails even the most basic accessibility tests NUMBER the home page contains NUMBER instances of images without alt text this is the same basic failing for which the sydney organizing committee for the olympic games was successfully sued in NUMBER NUMBER here is what URL looks like in a text only browser NUMBER to better understand the experience take a piece of paper and cover your entire monitor except for the top line then scroll the window slowly so you can only read one line at a time while nothing is technically locked out all the links are regular links nothing requires javascript to function properly all the un alt enhanced images which are mostly spacer images and images as bullets add so much clutter to the page that it s very difficult to navigate meanwhile i don t want to imagine what it would sound like through a screen reader want to find the search box that s NUMBER NUMBERpttrans dot gif NUMBERpttrans dot gif search for NUMBERpttrans dot gif NUMBERpttrans dot gif form edit box NUMBERpttrans dot gif submit button go NUMBERpttrans dot gif link advanced search NUMBERpttrans dot gif NUMBER and i hope you weren t looking for microsoft s accessibility home page NUMBER it s the NUMBERth link on the page out of NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL in NUMBER montana s NUMBER old libertarian candidate for senator starting drinking a homebrew concoction of colloidal silver to prevent bacterial infecttion he was afraid that conventional antibiotics wouldn t be available in the new millennium and now his skin has turned blue for good link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks for the image nelson _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER executive pay has once again outpaced average earnings climbing an average of NUMBER last year ,0
url URL date not supplied a new census of the world s robot population reveals disturbing negative robot population growth but still our fleshless offspring s numbers point to a machinery future some NUMBER NUMBER domestic help robots were sold worldwide last year half designed to mow lawns vacuum cleaning robots were introduced late in NUMBER and a study in sweden found that NUMBER NUMBER were sold in the last two months of the year window cleaning robots are set to boom said the u n study link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks gatfishing _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the president s niece will no longer have to forge prescriptions for valium all she ll have to do is participate in an unruly public demonstration to get a free dose unfortunately for her the government has no plans to shoot rocks of cocaine at demonstrators so she ll still have to depend on her drug dealer for that the u s military is exploring ways to use drugs such as valium to calm people without killing them during riots or other crowd control situations where lethal weapons are inappropriate link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER shipments of low cost drugs being intercepted and sold at vast profits ,0
url URL date not supplied a san francisco cabbie generally a well educated and firm opinion holding class of person has an essay about a subject near and dear to my non car owning heart why is it so damned hard to get a cab in san francisco in fact no cab company ever tells a driver to pick up anyone when you phone a cab firm in san francisco your call is treated not as an order not as a binding oral contract but simply as a request so why don t cab companies ensure that we pick you up on time or at all in a nutshell labor law states that if a cab company actually commands a driver to carry out a specific action that constitutes an employer employee relationship but if a company farms its work out to independent contractors it can rid itself of costly expenses such as disability and social security taxes it also means that the contractor drivers can t unionize link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via camworld NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest the us and britain yesterday told the chief un weapons inspector not to resume inspections in iraq until new guidelines were passed ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the defective yeti isn t fond of culture jam i read it a year or so ago and joined adbusters as a result i liked the book but more importantly i liked the message it resonated with me a lot yes ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business congressional report offers damaging summary of bank s dotcom boom years ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER is it just me or is rss really really close to critical mass you know the kind where you read article in the wall street journal about it well dave notes that i just learned that rss is being taught ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER arts kevin mckenzie last night emerged as the frontrunner to take over at the scandal hit royal ballet ,0
url URL date not supplied rob pringles can flickenger and others cliff skolnik at the o reilly os x con has tracked down the cause of the annoying flakiness in the wireless network here every NUMBER or NUMBER seconds you start getting connection refused messages from your browser and other net utilities rob pringles can flickenger wrote it up it turns out that running the great network spy app etherpeg NUMBER or other promiscuous network sniffers and the built in firewall in os x at the same time causes your computer to begin intercepting every packet sent out on your segment of the wireless network and respond to it with a rejected message so today rob and everyone else who knows about this is going to run around and tell people running etherpeg to _turn off the firewall_ and vice versa ah fickle networking you are such a stern mistress link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks rob _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER media bbc and sky backed service will be launched at the end of this month with NUMBER free channels ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics tony blair has distanced himself from a minister accused of meddling in an election for the leadership of the labour party s biggest trade union affiliate ,0
url URL date not supplied a french trial of a highly promising treatment for the fatal bubble boy disease is stopped after a patient developed leukaemia ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER education small a level problem to be dealt with but no change on student grants or charitable status of public schools ,0
url URL date not supplied a material that turns into a conductor at the flash of a light promises to reduce the cost of large lcd displays and optical data storage ,0
url URL date not supplied a year long search received more than NUMBER NUMBER entries from over NUMBER countries and two million ratings the analysis is now complete ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER paris dispatch a growing number of french people are questioning the medical ruling and the law that enabled a vichy war criminal to walk free writes jon henley ,0
url URL date not supplied drugs designed to prevent the complications of diabetes may work by slowing accelerated ageing future versions may delay symptoms of ageing in everyone ,0
url URL date not supplied doom has been ported to the nokia NUMBER handset link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via ben hammersley com NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the wsj has published a round up of phone companies wired and wireless ranking them based on performance and price they don t mention nextel whose hullking milspec iNUMBER handset i ve been carrying for years now with incredible reception all over the us and canada their front line customer service sucks but the prices and network can t be beat t mobile is in the midst of a massive makeover in recent months the company changed its name and launched an ad campaign featuring ms zeta jones the company has a history worth hiding t mobile a subsidiary of deutsche telekom is known for having a weak national network and the fcc received NUMBER NUMBER complaints about the company in the past year giving it one of the worst complaint rates in the industry t mobile says their complaint rate has tapered off and that they have made substantial network improvements but t mobile is the cheapest wireless provider available with an average cost of just NUMBER NUMBER cents per minute verizon by contrast costs NUMBER NUMBER cents per minute link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via camworld NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the ancient remains of NUMBER fishermen who were tied up and stabbed through the heart have been excavated from a beach ,0
url URL date not supplied worldcom the world s biggest internet traffic carrier suffers a major outage which affects millions of users ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL check out this weird easter egg i found in macos NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER s sharing control panel link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER society law lords to hear challenge to bill giving big money an even bigger say ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics government increases secondments from energy arms and construction industries but tries to keep it dark ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER arts record giant s move highlights changing situation at a time when classical market is faltering ,0
url URL date not supplied viral antibodies are identified in a one month old baby as the us death toll rises sharply ,0
url URL date not supplied a detector from an asteroid chasing nasa probe will soon be helping detectives to solve gun crimes and murder cases ,0
url URL date not supplied research on scrotal asymmetry and the surface area of elephants were among other recipients of the NUMBER spoof awards ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER money house prices have increased by as much as NUMBER over the past year in some areas ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER brussels dispatch calls for an inquiry into belgium s complicated wartime past are gathering pace writes andrew osborn ,0
url URL date not supplied great village voice story about oddball museums in new york my favorite weird ass museum is the museo de criminologia in san jose costa rica which has bits of victims of famous crimes machete dented brain pans severed arms etc floating in formaldehyde jars a stone s throw away is the singular freakatorium el museo loco a classy treasure chest of curiosities belonging to sword swallower johnny fox whose focus is the rich history of america s earliest museums from p t barnum s american museum to the bowery dime museums the walrus penis bone other penis bones on display coyote mink fox raccoon is enough to make you feel you re getting your NUMBER worth but then you spy the jivaro shrunken head it s real it s the size of a tennis ball conjoined piglets in a jar an assload of taxidermy including a gorgeous zebra head giant s rings link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks gary NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied a collision is seen from start to finish for the first time it may provide clues to how the universe s largest single objects are formed ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER humiliating rebuff for blair initiative comes only days after plan was announced at the labour conference ,0
url URL date not supplied neil sandman gaiman has won his lawsuit against todd spawn mcfarlane vindicated in his assertion that mcfarlane breached his contracts stole his characters and used his name mcfarlane looked down somberly as the verdict was read as the judge polled the individual jury members he looked at their faces link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks gnat NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER briton richard reid pleads guilty to attempting to blow up flight ,0
url URL date not supplied anil dash discovers that the t mobile sidekick s web browser is pretty arbitrary in which pages it will load and which pages it will throw up its hands at so i decided i was going to modify my page to conform to your browser s idiocy i went looking for technical docs on what you do to mangle web pages none i went looking for a desktop emulator that i could run to simulate your device on my computer none i went looking to see an acknowledgement of the shortcomings of your device indicating that the situation would be improved none link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks joe NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied sixdegress is a NUMBER os x app that data mines your own hard drive and tries to build links between people files and folders laura carpenter at the os x con was talking it up yesterday and it looks way cool i ve just downloaded the demo to play with locate files with similar names or file revisions anywhere on your system show all email threads related to any file or person on your desktop view all the files a person has sent you regardless of where those files are stored on your computer create dynamic self updating projects find misfiles or attachments quickly without searching desktop folders navigate and open any message file or person on your desktop in one click link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks laura _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER when a florida journalist was killed by anthrax sent to him by letter it set off a wave of copycat hoaxers jon ronson tracks them down quizzes NUMBER crossword NUMBER interactive guides NUMBER steve bell NUMBER weblog NUMBER other news and comment home office set to rewrite geneva refugee agreement NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL wonderful gallery of historical advertising and postcard photos of times square at lileks s site stefan urges us to have some mercy on his bandwidth budget and consider using the tip jar link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks stefan _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest hardliners battle for control of divided parliaments and presidency ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business billionaire brothers add store to empire for NUMBERm ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER football arsenal midfielder believes the premiership champions have the ablility to become the world s best ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sport bbc panorama programme the corruption of racing reveals little that is new writes greg wood ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics disgraced peer jeffrey archer is set to make NUMBERm from his belmarsh diaries but the coup could cost him another year inside reports kamal ahmed ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the observer profile brazil goes to the polls today and all the indications are that its NUMBER million voters will elect a man who once sold peanuts on the street luis lula da silva ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i guess it s time to reveal the incredibly kind invitation i received NUMBER as many of you may have found out or guessed i will be attending oral argument for the eldred case NUMBER before the supreme court i m incredibly excited as you might imagine visiting the supreme court would be quite enough but seeing such an important case dayenu when lessig asked me if i was free that day to come i laughed because i couldn t and still can t think of anything i d rather do than attend i am eternally grateful to lessig for the chance to attend on the other hand i m sort of embarassed to have the opportunity when there are surely others who deserve it far more than me luckily it seems that such deserving others will be able to get seats by camping in line with us so i ll be arriving in d c on tuesday attending an eldred duke epic bookmobile superparty and then camping in line with seth schoen NUMBER lisa rein jace cooke but unfortunately not cory doctorow if you d like to come with us let me know i was hoping i d be able to take notes and post them to my weblog for those who couldn t make it but as i read in today s times only lawyers and those with official press credentials are allowed to take notes NUMBER i think this is outrageous but hopefully i will be able to remember enough to provide an interesting account in a related irony today was disney day at borders NUMBER where they played disney rock songs with the volume turned up too loud disturbing my usual habit of reading a book there however i did manage to skim through _the practice of programming_ in an unrelated note if you haven t been electrocuted by a model t spark plug i highly recommend it NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER net news a devastating new computer virus is causing havoc around the world as it crashes computers distributes confidential e mails and steals credit card details ,0
url URL date not supplied the popularity of garage or car boot sales could be behind a recent worldwide resurgence of the nuisance bugs says a uk scientist ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL stan jones isn t the only person to have turned himself blue with quack silver remedies rosemary took silver supplements in the NUMBERs for her allergies and put up this site in NUMBER to warn others off of the horror of blue skin for life link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks stefan _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER michael mckevitt the founder of the real ira is likely to serve less than two more years in jail in a deal to cover up miNUMBER s role in ireland ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL an alberta teenager has hit the bigtime with a curling videogame friends of mine who curl assure me that curling is way fun to play it certainly isn t that fun to watch and of course you can and should drink beer while playing i believe that disqualifies it as a sport no link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thaanks chris _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER will the last person to leave the tory party please turn out the light rachel cooke scours the land looking for conservative voters quizzes NUMBER crossword NUMBER interactive guides NUMBER steve bell NUMBER weblog NUMBER other news and comment met launches new sus patrols NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied glenn fleishman s written an open letter to the infoworld writer who published an hysterical ambivalent article NUMBER about warchalking the only place i hear about these stories on warchalking that relate to stealing access from open but not shared aps accidentally shared i suppose is accurate is via law enforcement without any specific locations mentioned arrests made or even photos of the offending marks link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest osama bin laden is alive and regularly meeting mullah omar the fugitive leader of the taliban according to a telephone call intercepted by american spy satellites ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL jon lebkowsky has posted a little gallery of pictures from my eff austin talk at actlab at the university of texas and a couple shots from the kick ass bbq we ate beforehand note the atkins compliant lunch i had a fantastic time there thanks to the organizers and especially to jon for putting it together it s was especially great to meeet the boing boing readers who came out to the talk link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks john NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business stockbrokers around the world are braced for a potentially calamitous week as alarm mounts over a looming thirties style global financial crisis ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER football david seaman to carry on as england goalkeeper when their european championship qualifying programme begins in slovakia on saturday ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _ian hickson_ include web log txt NUMBER NUMBER i used some of perl s niftier features such as using method lookup instead of a switch statement for the preprocessing instruction dispatching and exceptions instead of passing error codes back and forth NUMBER he he perl programmers are so cute when they imitate python programmers NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied modern living is a series of about NUMBER tiny flash animations that use recursions gloomy music and simple interactivity to make inarticulate yet compelling existentialist morality plays this stuff is like philip k dick rendered as a series of five second interactive animations i ve just killed an entire hour on this thing and now i want to go watch a pinter play link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks rich NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _law com_ suit over airlines web sites tests bounds of ada NUMBER via slashdot blind user sues southwest over web site cites ada NUMBER gumson and a miami beach fla based disability rights group access now filed lawsuits in u s district court in miami in june and july against dallas based southwest and dallas based american airlines under the americans with disabilities act they are doing so under an untested legal theory namely that ada provisions on the accessibility of public accommodations to the disabled apply to internet web sites just as they do to brick and mortar facilities like movie theaters and department stores five months ago i said NUMBER NUMBER within the next NUMBER months all web authoring tools will fully embrace css accessibility and web standards and i mean fully inside and out as macromedia appears to have done here with dreamweaver mx those tools that do not will simply fall by the wayside this is the new baseline NUMBER seven months to go on that prediction tick tock tick tock NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL dive into mark may NUMBER NUMBER ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _slashdot_ digital camera quality passing film NUMBER we just hired a photographer for our wedding yesterday light touch imagery NUMBER they offer competitive prices they can design the type of albums we want with some amount of artistic touchup they do bridal and engagement portraits as well as full wedding day coverage they shoot all digital and they give us all the digital negatives on cd NUMBER that is the raw pictures that come straight out of their cameras no other photographer we met with came close NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _michael barrish_ home NUMBER NUMBER had i been given a choice in the matter i would have preferred a name that made people think of things i considered more central to my identity like NUMBER artist NUMBER or NUMBER intellectual NUMBER or NUMBER outrageously good in bed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _michael barrish_ poem NUMBER NUMBER here are the NUMBER most popular oblivio search strings since october NUMBER i consider it a poem NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied the doe has announced a high speed data transfer that runs on drillpipe through a NUMBER inch diameter steel pipe immersed in electrically conductive mud at pressures up to NUMBER atmospheres temperatures up to NUMBER deg c and with vibrational accelerations of hundreds of g s now with a high speed bi directional communications link a drilling system s azimuth inclination pressure temperature loads and vibration along with information on rock characteristics near the drill bit can be evaluated almost instantly also because of the ability to send high speed data through the drill pipe technologies once thought unobtainable such as collecting seismic data at the drill bit may now be possible with high resolution seismic data collected ahead of the bit operators could steer the drill bit more precisely toward oil and gas bearing sweet spots and away from less productive areas this will enhance the efficiency of oil and gas wells and reduce the number of wells needed to produce a reservoir link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER scripting languages allow rapid development of game behavior without the pitfalls that await the unwary c programmer using an existing scripting language saves the time and cost of developing a custom language and typically gives you a far more powerful language than you could create on your own python is an excellent choice for a game scripting language because it is powerful easily embedded can seamlessly be extended with c c code ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER armed with a cult film licence and the knowledge that the italian job already had a huge fan base in the uk pixelogic set out to make a game that would not only do the film justice but would also be a game worth playing ,0
url URL date not supplied the killer t cells of hiv patients who stay healthy for years replicate unusually rapidly researchers discover better treatments may result ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER as game developers reach for new forms of gameplay and a better process for implementing established genres the wisdom of licensing physics engines is becoming inescapable physics engines do more than just knock over boxes however and the interface between your game and a physics engine must be fairly complex in order to harness advanced functionality ,0
url URL date not supplied plastic discs designed to sit inside food packaging and change colour when the contents go off could provide warnings to consumers ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER arts medieval religious images salvaged from the destruction wrought during the reign of henry viii reign and the civil war go on show in leeds ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER security in cyberspace is a different kettle of fish compared to many computer systems cyberspace entertainment only has to be useful to the majority of its users entertaining that means it can tolerate a small amount of vandalism still remain useful this is quite unlike a system required for commerce we still have a headache of course but at least we only need to keep the system around NUMBER percent clean rather than NUMBER NUMBER percent of course we ll still strive to stamp out corruption but our system failure threshold is more achievable than one might at first assume ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER we in the game industry know what we mean when we say that a game is addictive we think that quality in a game is a good thing people like it they keep coming back to it and they want to play it more and more i agree that it s a good thing if a game has that quality then it s probably a darn good game but using the word addiction to describe that quality does us no favors with the general public ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the second of our series from the gdc europe we talk with microsoft s bill fulton about usability testing for games scee s zeno colaco about pitching publishers and harvey smith of ion storm about emergent game design ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER back when NUMBERkb was more memory than any computer would ever need there was a time when memory managers didn t exist but gradually new computer systems came out with larger amounts of memory and designers discovered ways to eat up ram faster than any system could dish it out this discussion is based on tiburon s experiences in writing and rewriting the memory manager for madden nfl NUMBER to madden nfl NUMBER ,0
url URL date not supplied pro football players are addicted to football games as a means of wish fulfillment by managing the team they can be free of the rule of their coaches and bosses maybe this explains the amazing success of the sims which on the face of it should be dull as hell while away your free time away from the office by simulating an existence as a shlub with a day job and a drive to acquire consumer goods on credit you d think it d be the last thing you want to do but it s not when you re a sim you can tweak your existence a smidge discover what life would be like if you took path a instead of path b try the alternate universe on for size the idea of football players playing themselves in licensed video games is neat and recursive like the episode of the simpsons when mr burns runs into krusty buying krusty o s at the supermarket and asks where he can find the burns o s it s always a trip carr says the first time i saw myself in a video game was in college at fresno state when i walked into a best buy store and some kid was playing with me that kind of trips you out a little bit for every NUMBER year old kid who spends countless hours in front of a television playing video games there s a group of NUMBER pound offensive linemen challenging each other at everything from madden nfl NUMBER to the action packed halo combat evolved link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks lawrence NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in our final round up from the gdc europe NUMBER we review the confernece sessions and the ects expo noting the spiraling increase in game complexity ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in NUMBER we in the u s were playing the nintendo entertainment system known as the famicom in japan and roughly a third of the music for its first set of games was written by hirokazu hip tanaka then with nintendo co ltd he has written music for countless other games as well as designing the game boy camera and printer and also scored the soundtrack to the pokemon tv series alexander brandon catches up with the legendary composer ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the first of a two part series of interviews from the gdc europe we talk with mark cerny about game preproduction jonty barnes about camera control and jason kingsley about ratings and censorship ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this feature excerpted from wolfgang engel s shaderx book from wordware publishing presents a simple shader trick that performs a good per pixel approximation of a non integer power function the technique works for input values between NUMBER and NUMBER and supports large exponents the presented shader does not require any texture look up and is scalable making it possible to spend more instructions in order to decrease the error or to reach greater exponents ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER uk latest blunkett and straw accused of trying to intimidate judge as shayler case starts today at old bailey ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ubi china had always wanted to make a pc game for the local market but a number to factors kept the idea on hold in january NUMBER the right incentive to motivate ubi china to try a local project finally arrived the license for music up a popular animated property ,0
url URL date not supplied disney s themepark business is in deep trouble in the post NUMBER NUMBER world a war with iraq could really kill em while aggressively adding attractions disney boosted its profit by steadily raising admission prices the strategy worked helping deliver record profit for disney year after year the strategy was build build build every year there was something new said david koenig a disney historian and author it was an astounding growth period now they re overexposed theme park operating income for disney this year is expected to fall NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER billion said prudential securities analyst katherine styponias by NUMBER she said the business could climb to NUMBER NUMBER billion depending on whether the u s goes to war with iraq link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER troy paradise is a versatile and creative artist with over seven years of experience in the videogames industry working as a freelance lead artist and college art instructor ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER but industry analysts say four little words that can make your investors squeamish put you right in the middle of the hot spot in the market or send the retail buyers to the phones to either double or cancel their big order of your game but who are these analysts who anointed them the masters of the future and trends are they real people ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rendering polygons is not as easy as it used to be the reason being the vast amount of different rendering techniques methods and algorithms available not only is choosing the right ones a problem even worse all that are selected need to work together there are some algorithms which simply do not work together and in that case only one may be used whilt the other one needs to be replaced witha more compatible method this feature explores how factor NUMBER approached the problem when developing rogue leader for gamecube ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with project budgets in the multiple millions of dollars and virtually no margin for error more and more development teams are under tremendous pressure to come out on top of the entertainment software market s cutthroat competition no team manager wants to contemplate dropping the ball when creating the vivid graphics necessary to help make a game a success electronic arts the sims franchise is an excellent example of this pressurized situation this article highlights the critical issues that govern the high volume asset production needed for today s most demanding games ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for those new to the product virtools is a production environment such as director designed to allow the rapid creation of NUMBERd interactive applications the second version of virtools clearly builds upon previous releases keeping a similar look while adding a host of new features that greatly improve the final package ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER max payne elite force theif ico deux ex oddworld medal of honor baldur s gate the more recent final fantasy games more and more developers are pushing the game design envelope forging new entertainment experiences and art forms that draw on the roots of traditional gaming but also partake of more sophisticated storytelling and characterization for game designers involved in creating each successive advancement these are exciting times this article will explore four different ways to use symbols to evoke emotional response from an audience ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ted rall my government went to afghanistan and all i got was this stupid pipeline NUMBER summary the us begun planning courting the taliban for permission to build an oil pipeline since NUMBER we even flew mullah omar to texas to try and convince him after it was clear that wouldn t work we threatened to bomb them and begun attacking on a smaller scale for a year before NUMBER NUMBER we already planned to invade two months before the attacks while it s not clear they knew about NUMBER NUMBER it certainly provided a convenient cover for their plans three days after we started bombing we begun official work on the pipeline karzai the afghanistan president we installed who incidentally used to work for the oil company unocal and was a former talib focused on the pipeline rather than rebuilding his torn country yet the entire pipeline is unworkable because it s too expensive and will be sabotaged by warlords and pakistan bin laden was essentially a venture capitalist he funded attacks but didn t carry them out it s far more likely that an egyptian group islamic jihad carried out the attacks if we wanted to stop the terrorists we should have gone after them if we wanted to stop anti americanism we should have gone after saudi arabia and pakistan instead our bombing created the perfect opportunity for bin laden to escape nor did we bother to stabilize afghanistan the country is as ruined as ever unfortunately our government seized the moment as well not to do good or right but to take advantage of our grief of our naivete of our lust for justice and vengeance they did it to line the pockets of themselves and their friends to gain political and economic advantage for a tiny coterie of influential people in doing so they endangered the rest of us they took advantage of our ignorance about islam caspian sea oil and remote central asia i have faith that the fundamental goodness of the american people will cause them to see what was done in their name and to do something about it NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rendering engines used in today s game titles utilize various techniques for hidden surface removal hsr different techniques being suitable for different game genres for example action games played in closed in locations need an engine allowing fast rendering of a few hundred polygons a high frame rate and a high level of details to impress players conversely a game that is taking place outdoors requires quite a different approach this features present one one technique for hidden surface removal usable in NUMBERd engines using tilizing object occlusion ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER as audiences become more and more sophisticated about computer graphics fractal noise and procedural woodgrain textures can no longer guarantee gushing reviews darkling simulations darktree NUMBER is the latest edition of the popular tool for artists who want to develop complex multilayered shaders ranging from highly realistic natural surfaces to animated pyrotechnics to flatshaded cartoon renderings ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER iain duncan smith will this week gamble his political future on a return to the thatcher revolution of the NUMBERs ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER french ship burns off yemen ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business abbey national has received a takeover approach from bank of ireland which could flush out other bidders ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER million pheasants now reared for britain s fastest growing sport ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER education a NUMBER year old student becomes the first person to take legal action over this year s a level crisis ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER football ugo ehiogu will stand in for rio ferdinand following his sudden and unexpected withdrawal from the england squad ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER money pensions experts say tax lures should be used to raise retirement age ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics stormont near collapse as sinn fein protests at allegations ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER decss detractors have repeatedly claimed that decss needs to be stopped because it makes perfect digital copies of dvds possible recently in private email ernest miller claimed that doing so would be a violation of the dmca in this in depth special report i show that using perfectly legal i assume licensed off the shelf consumer software copying dvds is easy and in many ways encouraged tools NUMBER powerbook gNUMBER with slot loading dvd drive any model should work NUMBER monsters inc collector s edition dvd any dvd should work NUMBER copy of mac os x NUMBER NUMBER jaguar process NUMBER insert dvd into drive notice how jaguar helpfully loads the dvd player for you NUMBER open the dvd it appears on the desktop and drag the video_ts folder to your hard drive ejct the dvd NUMBER in dvd player select open video_ts folder from the file menu use the dialog that appears to select the video_ts folder on your hard drive now the dvd plays just like it would were the dvd in the drive by extension i could also put the dvd up on my site for you to download and watch i could share it via a pNUMBERp network and i haven t done anything to decrypt the dvd or violate the dmca i ve used only basic tools available to all normal computer users on my i assume fully licensed consumer laptop disclaimer seth schoen whose opinion i highly respect on these matters finds it unlikely that the dvd was css encrypted if this was possible i am not sure how to verify if the dvd is css encrypted if someone has a suggestion please let me know however if it is true then it s very interesting that disney has released such a major movie without encryption ,0
url URL date not supplied here s a how to explaining how to blind a surveillance camera a laser pointer link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks mike NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied ntt docomo have released a paper on the use of human flesh as a networking medium a device attached to a pda can send and receive weak electrical signals through people with human bodies as communications circuits the paper said citing sources close to the companies apparel and handbags have their own conductivity allowing an electrical connection to a pda that can remain in one s pocket the paper said in this way people can exchange e mail addresses names and phone numbers while shaking hands with the data automatically written into both their pdas the paper said link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks alan _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied i spoke at the mac os x conference in santa clara last week it was a really fun event and it was great meeting a lot of people whom i previously knew only through email like rael dornfest danny o brien and glenn fleishman here s the talk i gave link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _joe gregorio_ my next pet project NUMBER NUMBER trying to re create the good easy NUMBER on a windows machine NUMBER i have also made half hearted attempts in this direction as i am forced to use windows during the day i say half hearted because i m still application centric and i don t go as far with keyboard shortcuts as i could but i don t use the desktop at all never have on any system and i don t use ctrl alt keyboard shortcuts because i personally find them awkward ymmv if you must use windows the first step towards a productive system is managing your start menu i use the main level of the start menu with numbered shortcuts to my most common programs NUMBER control panel NUMBER NUMBER mozilla NUMBER NUMBER emacs NUMBER NUMBER dos home NUMBER dos work NUMBER dos incoming each of which gives me a command line but in different directories NUMBER python NUMBER NUMBER ie also explorer home explorer work explorer incoming which open explorer windows in various useful directories the same directories as the dos shortcuts only with the shift key held down and yes i intentionally set it up so that went to my work folder less used programs are taken out of their useless submenus as installed and moved directly into the programs submenu and given unique first letters as needed ad aware NUMBER excel NUMBER im netscape NUMBER NUMBER paint shop pro query tool odbc NUMBER vmware NUMBER word NUMBER all other submenus except startup are removed from the programs menu yes delete accessories do you honestly ever use it if so it s probably a sign of a larger productivity problem things which never need to be run manually like winzip and quicktime are removed from the programs menu maintaining a clean programs menu is an ongoing struggle but well worth it on most modern keyboards there is a key next to your left alt key that opens the start menu which you can press with your left thumb without taking your fingers off the home keys otherwise ctrl esc always works menu NUMBER gives me a new command prompt in my work directory menu p n runs netscape NUMBER for compatibility testing in my day job ugh mozilla and emacs are almost always open but i quit lesser used applications as soon as i m done using them mostly because my laptop doesn t have a lot of memory i install cygwin NUMBER so that the command line is actually useful cygwin is a collection of windows ports of all your favorite unix utilities including mv cp scp ssh man tar less grep patch ncftp cvs and many others and bash which i don t use because i dislike how it handles windows pathnames i also set the properties of my command line shortcuts to set the window size to NUMBER x NUMBER almost full screen at NUMBER x NUMBER and screen buffer size to NUMBER x NUMBER set window position at NUMBER x NUMBER and don t let the system position the window in mozilla i set my home page to about blank set internet search to search with google use tabbed browsing open tabs instead of windows in all possible cases always show the tab bar and load links in the background essential for weblog surfing you can ctrl click links to open them in new tabs in the background under scripts plugins i do not allow scripts to open unrequested windows i turn off the sidebar turn on the site navigation bar delete all pre installed bookmarks and create two bookmarks one which takes me to my webmail and another which takes me to my internal site search NUMBER from which i can find all other bookmarks i need in internet explorer i set my home page to the page to edit my weblog since that s the only thing i do in internet explorer alt tab back and forth between mozilla and ie is easier than ctrl pgup pgdown between tabs within mozilla since textareas in mozilla lose focus when you switch tabs making copying and pasting weblog entries virtually impossible i use emacs locally and vi remotely because the default behavior of emacs is so heinous as to render it unusable for instance editing a cgi script named foo cgi on a web server with emacs would generate a foo cgi backup file which is world readable and is sent as plain text to any browser that asks try this sometime on your favorite web site among other things my emacs file which is actually called _emacs on windows instructs emacs to store all backup files in a single directory d backup to treat all xml files as docbook all cgi scripts as python and all sql scripts as pl sql to use cygwin s bash shell for m x shell to use a single maximized frame with no menubar titled as the name of the current file to show column numbers to accept y and n for yes no questions not to blink not to beep and to close the current file when i press m w i use some weird registry hacks and a hacked notepad exe to get all text files to open in emacs i got this idea from ultraedit NUMBER my _emacs file is my second most backed up possession i don t use windows useless directory structure for user home directories on my d drive i have d home contains directories for my books and other personal projects each under cvs control NUMBER also set as my home directory using the home environment variable d work contains directories for each work project also under cvs d incoming set as default download directory for all programs that download things and d backup used by emacs and for temporary storage for instance for storing originals when checking out newly created cvs projects i don t know or care what s where on my c drive i have tried many many address books and still store all my contacts email addresses snail mail addresses phone numbers and other vital personal information in a text file called phone stored in d home phone it is not in any particular format other than being plain text and usually including blank lines between entries i categorize people with simple keywords in parentheses after their name and use m x occur in emacs to search by keyword this file is my single most backed up possession other essential free windows utilities i use in no particular order tweakui NUMBER cygwin NUMBER guidescope NUMBER zonealarm NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL replacing notepad with ultraedit NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER eric eldred _himself_ was just on marketplace NUMBER nytimes debate to intensify on copyright extension law NUMBER front page of the business section below the fold it will fall to mr lessig who is a former clerk for supreme court justice antonin scalia and who has become a kind of rock star for the digital liberties set to convince the justices to accept the unconventional analysis if they do the decision could be a turning point in redefining a balance between copyright consumers and producers and the technology companies that are often in the middle newsweek glitterati vs geeks NUMBER larry lessig admits it he s nervous who wouldn t be in its narrowest context eldred v ashcroft deals with the seemingly arcane issue of the length of copyrights for books films and music but it s actually a high noon showdown between two great industries at odds in the age of the internet there s a sense of deja vu to this television was supposed to be the death of movies and in NUMBER the film industry s silver tongued lobbyist jack valenti testified that the vcr is to the american film producer and the american public as the boston strangler is to the woman home alone video sales are now the studios biggest moneymaker naturally hollywood regards the computer internet combo as scarier than nightmare on elm street NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied last friday s christie s auction of original physics manuscripts included original works by einstein curie newton and other physics rock stars the einstein which included an early attempt to prove relativity went to an anonymous bidder for NUMBER NUMBER link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied this time around we have _two two two_ guestbloggers for the price of one quinn norton and danny o brien have agreed to fill the sidebar slot for a little while danny and quinn and their rommie gilbert are just about the most fun bay areans i ve had the pleasure of hanging out with between the three of them they re capable of being entertaining on the subjects of python copyright pottery usability a conversation with quinn about usability made it almost verbatim into my second novel eastern standard tribe load balancing free software nerd culture british cuisine bodily ailments pregnancy well you name it i can t wait to see what they post discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gun violence in america a NUMBER year old boy was shot in the chest and critically wounded outside of his school in maryland becoming the latest victim of a sniper who has already killed six people ,0
url URL date not supplied sweatyfrog is a toy review magazine store focusing on collectible toys with great megosteve NUMBER style erudite toy otaku commentary toy_design_guru who suggested the link recommends their occassional email newsletter as a must read link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks toy_design_guru _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if you like to live on the bleeding edge and play with code that s not yet ready for prime time good news you can now get the mysql NUMBER NUMBER source tree the only real difference from the NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER trees ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tony blair to hold crisis summit with ulster unionist leader david trimble in downing street today ,0
url URL date not supplied arts and letters daily a wonderful and dense blog has folded up its tent due to the bankruptcy of its parent company a l daily will be auctioned off by the receivers link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks misha _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied delphi questions NUMBER a new _joel on software_ discussion group NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER simon hattenstone meets comedian lee evans ,0
url URL date not supplied at the os x conference cory told me about a book called the life and death of the great american cities by jane jacobs this metropolis magazine comic strip by ben katchor seems to resonate with what cory told me about the book that cities die because mixed used areas are changed into single use areas link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER uk latest support for military action against iraq among british voters has fallen to NUMBER the lowest level recorded while the guardian icm survey has been running ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER feature she has loved clothes with a passion all her life and yet acclaimed author linda grant has never been to the collections until now so what does she make of the paris shows ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for the past week i ve been waiting for one of my freebsd servers to reproduce a problem we ve been seeing with mysql linuxthreads this particular machine is running a custom build of mysql NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or mysql NUMBER as i ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER politics the conservative leadership yesterday launched itself into a frenzy of self reproach as it struggled to shed the image of britain s nasty party ,0
url URL date not supplied the latest red list adds NUMBER to the NUMBER NUMBER endangered species around the globe but also includes a stick insect revival ,0
url URL date not supplied feorag writes from scotland you probably haven t heard of john otway but he has a small and devoted following here he did a limited issue cd and asked his fans to vote on which track _they d_ like to see as a single the one they picked just entered the uk charts at number NUMBER bet that ll piss off the major record labels especially as the marketing budget was probably about zero i might just watch top of the pops this week link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks feorag NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for not updating i m doing the guestblog at boing boing NUMBER now to find an excuse for missing last week NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied after discovering an open wireless net available from his sofa steven hackers levy interviewed lawmen academics and wifi activists about the legality and ethics of using open wireless access points i downloaded my mail and checked media news on the web when i confessed this to fbi agent bill shore he spared the handcuffs the fbi wouldn t waste resources on that he sniffed now i know that if it did it would be hard to argue that i broke a law what s more i certainly didn t feel illegal because and this is the point of all that war driving and chalking and node stumbling when you get used to wireless the experience feels more and more like a god given right one day we may breathe bandwidth like oxygen and arguing its illegality will be unthinkable link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks steven NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER medicine and health the discovery of the myriad little deaths which lead to life brought the most coveted prize in world medicine to two britons and an american yesterday ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business the long awaited recovery in britain s manufacturing sector ground to a halt in august despite a sharp rise in car production official figures showed yesterday ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER microsoft knowledge base article qNUMBER barney fun on imagination island error message barney not found NUMBER microsoft actimates interactive barney may conflict with a wide range of radio operated electronic devices including burglar alarms resulting in the dreaded NUMBER barney not found NUMBER error to resolve this problem microsoft recommends turning off your burglar alarm incidentally this is the funniest ms kbase article i ve seen since earth rotates in wrong direction NUMBER NUMBER URL en us qNUMBER NUMBER URL en us qNUMBER ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER movable type NUMBER NUMBER is out i m running it and it appears to work it incorporates many suggestions from dive into accessibility NUMBER a book which was written in and is still powered by movable type i find this amusing in a self referential sort of way the other big change is the inclusion of mt search to allow users to have their own site search every web site needs a site search NUMBER existing mt search users should merge the contents of mt search cfg into mt cfg change templatedir to searchtemplatepath and if you use alternate templates change alttemplateNUMBER alttemplateNUMBER alttemplateNUMBER etc to alttemplate they should all just be alttemplate download mt NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER mt NUMBER NUMBER changelog NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER scissors i like most other people here went through the security checkpoint unlike everyone else they decided to search my suitcase the security lady asked for permission and then took everything out clothing umbrellas a jacket and a box of crackers she searched all the pockets nothing apparently the jacket was suspicious she sent it through again nothing the lady in the next lane waved a NUMBER inch knife and asked the lady in my lane if it could go on i can only assume she answered yes she put everything back in and sent it through again still suspicious they took everything out it looked like this was going to take a while so i used the opportunity to put the tickets i was holding back in my bag when i looked back up the security woman was brandishing a scissors and saying this can t go on board i don t remember packing that i said i let her confiscate it i called my mom she doesn t remember packing it either is there some sort of terrorist plot to plant scissors in innocent looking people s suitcases i can t see why this would be useful how would they know what plane i m on once i m on the plane how would they get the scissors they could threaten me but if they have a threatening implement already then why do they need the scissors perhaps it s some sort of matroishca doll system they use their fists to get the infant to give them the squeaky mouse they use the squeaky mouse to scare the toddler into giving them a copy of _a new kind of science_ they use anks to bludgeon a NUMBERth grader into giving them a wedge block and they use the wedge to get me to give them the scissors those are some pretty clever terrorists update false alarm my mom called apparently it was the scissors she was using to cut loose threads from my tie last night it must have fallen in the nation can go back to yellow level terrorist alert waiting for wireless now i am at o hare airport sitting outside the admiral s club while businessmen walk in and out i am looking for a wireless signal the signal i used last time i was here but not finding it of course last time i was here i had an admiral s club card this time i have a mileage plus card but despite the airline ologopoly or perhaps because of it have to keep up appearances you know i doubt they will accept it irony according to the announcement i just heard mr valenti is going to miss his flight i think of what i d say if i ran into him jack i d exclaim as if we were old pals going to the eldred case of course he was going to be a good one hey remember when you had that debate with lessig i d ask you said you were starting a new task force to make movies legitimately available on the internet what ever happened to that i imagine him mumbling and looking down at his watch his plane is going to leave soon he has to run another announcement mr michael mckenna needs to call his office good thing these airline announcements keep me up to date automatic flush toilets now i am short and the sensing system was mounted up tall in both instances in the first at my old high school where you think some people might be a little short the flush went off once accidentally ok i thought i can handle one mistake then it went off again here at the airport it misfired three times this is annoying and inexcusable have they not heard of user testing do they expect only tall people to use these bathrooms this problem must be remedied immediately i recommend releasing a service pack on the manufacturer s web site arrival i ve arrived in d c once again i m sitting a block away from my hotel on the sidewalk borrowing someone s connection trip was very smooth had lunch with lisa and went to the spy museum pretty cool but could have been better now for the meetings and parties sorry for not responding to your email i m rather busy ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _clay shirky_ in praise of evolvable systems NUMBER this entire article could be rewritten to explain rss in fact let s do that if it were april fool s day the net s only official holiday and you wanted to design a NUMBER novelty format NUMBER to slip by the wNUMBERc as a joke it might look something like rss NUMBER NUMBERx NUMBER NUMBER it would specify limits on data values then remove them then specify required elements then make them optional thus silently breaking an unknown number of parsers around the world it would encourage use of entity encoded html in its most important element thus ensuring both security risks and unpredictable display for the end user it would ignore years of standards work in other fields committing such egregious sins as defining a guid element that wasn t a guid and using an obsolete date format that couldn t easily be sorted by date its primary method of extensibility would be to add new elements to the core namespace without telling anyone or documenting them thus making it wholely resistant to dtd schema or validation of any kind after years of worldwide deployment it would completely reverse its add whatever you want extensibility rules in favor of namespaces which the spec would neither define nor elaborate on after adopting namespaces it would fail to deprecate any existing elements semantically identical to namespace elements already in wide use it would also fail to provide precedence rules in cases where a document attempted to say the same thing in two different ways thus ensuring mass confusion among producers and inconsistent behavior across consumers rss NUMBER NUMBERx and NUMBER NUMBER are the whoopee cushion and joy buzzer of syndication formats for anyone who has tried to accomplish anything serious with metadata it s pretty obvious that of the various implementations of a worldwide syndication format we have the worst one possible except of course for all the others the problem with that list of rss deficiencies is that it is also a list of necessities NUMBER rss has flourished in a way that no other syndication format has not despite many of these qualities but because of them the very weaknesses that make rss so infuriating to serious practitioners also make it possible in the first place removing length limitations on description and making title optional opened up rss to a whole new category of producer the weblogger allowing encoded html in description let publishers reuse both their existing content and the existing rss infrastructure without requiring them to produce valid xhtml which could be embedded directly into an xml document social mores rather than technical rules prevent producers from intentionally introducing security risks through malicious script tags or unpredictable display through unclosed html elements few publishing tools can produce real conforming guids and it doesn t matter because virtually all rss parsers are written in high level languages where handling strings is more efficient than converting strings to bytecodes and handling bytecodes as for dates by convention an rss document is laid out in reverse chronological order and no one seems to be clamoring for more flexibility furthermore its almost babyish xml syntax so far from any serious computational framework where are the namespaces where is the document type description why is the aggregators enforcement of conformity so lax made it possible for anyone wanting an rss feed to write one the effects of this ease of implementation only become clear when you compare it to the attempts over the years to NUMBER do rss right NUMBER NUMBER most notably rss NUMBER NUMBER in the year NUMBER rss NUMBER NUMBER had three main benefits backward compatible with rss NUMBER NUMBER which was never widely deployed and which fell into obscurity as soon as the much simpler rss NUMBER NUMBER was introduced based on rdf specifically a serialization called rdf xml a spec which at the time and to this day continues to change or threaten to change two years later there are no major languages or development platforms that ship with parsers to consume rdf although many perl python net have third party rdf parsers in various states of development and conformance the release version is generally out of date cvs access is recommended you get the idea meanwhile rdf xml production tools are so inconsistent that even rdf experts recommend not using rdf tools to produce an rss NUMBER NUMBER feed if you want it to actually be read by any major rss aggregator despite the two year old promise of better tools NUMBER it is now the year NUMBER and i built my rss NUMBER NUMBER feed NUMBER in the most sophisticated personal publishing system in the world NUMBER by manually typing a mishmash of template tags and angle brackets into a textarea of an html form extensible through namespaces which as mentioned above have been haphazardly and poorly incorporated into rss NUMBER NUMBER where they appear to be flourishing evolvable formats NUMBER those that proceed by being adapted and extended in a thousand small ways NUMBER have three main characteristics that are germane to their eventual victories over strong centrally designed formats only solutions that produce partial results with imperfect tools can succeed my rss feed is an xml document produced by a template that i built in a textarea and consumed by hundreds of parsers around the world that know nothing of xml and hack apart my feed with regular expressions the world is littered with formats that would have worked if only everyone had better tools if everyone in the world had a perfect rdf parser at their disposal it would be trivial to produce and consume all the world s metadata in rdf without such perfect tools both production and consumption instantly become nightmares there is no middle ground what is is wrong because evolvable formats have always been adapted to earlier conditions and are always being further adapted to present conditions they are always behind the times rss was being stretched with long descriptions optional titles and entity encoded html even before such practices were codified in the spec and long before all consumers could handle them no evolving format is ever perfectly in sync with the challenges it faces finally orgel s rule named for the evolutionary biologist leslie orgel NUMBER NUMBER evolution is cleverer than you are NUMBER as with the list of rss s obvious deficiencies above it is easy to point out what is wrong with any evolvable system at any point in its life no one seeing rss NUMBER NUMBER and rss NUMBER NUMBER side by side could doubt that rss NUMBER NUMBER had the superior technology that it NUMBER did things right NUMBER however the ability to understand what is missing at any given moment does not mean that one person or a small central group can design a better system in the long haul designed formats start out strong and improve logarithmically evolvable formats start out weak and improve exponentially rss NUMBER NUMBER is not the perfect syndication format just the best one that s also currently practical infrastructure built on evolvable formats will always be partially incomplete partially wrong and ultimately better designed than its competition NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied yet another lego obsessive has built a working lego harpsichord tons of points for style but damn it sounds like hell link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks tim NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied teresa s written a wonderful blog post about the revelation that tyco s crooked ceo spent NUMBER NUMBER on a shower curtain NUMBER NUMBER for an umbrella stand NUMBER NUMBER on coat hangers NUMBER NUMBER on bedsheets and NUMBER NUMBER for a wastebasket naturally they assured her that not only is it possible to pay NUMBER NUMBER for your shower curtains and NUMBER NUMBER for a wastebasket it s a good thing to do so practically essential then they explain how sometimes the wastebasket is exposed said joel joves a designer with offices in rancho santa fe and beverly hills if you have a fabulous study or master bedroom then maybe we need a pewter finished basket with decorative pearl beadings or semiprecious stones to complete the look of a room that s fool money at work if you can t find a sufficiently fabulous wastebasket for NUMBER NUMBER absolute tops you re not half trying link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL i often carry my ukulele with me on planes the case is so little it can fit in my suit case i missed a great photo opportunity when i was in the airport a couple of weeks ago and saw someone checking on a standup bass fiddle it was in a huge plastic darth vader shipping case the _buckles_ on the thing were about the size of my uke i should have taken a picture of my uke and the bass side by side anyway here s a stand up bass that looks much more portable the kona walkingstick you still need to carry around an amp though link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _ thanks prentiss NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER media move could lead to rupert murdoch s news corporation being outvoted on major board decisions ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER brown blocks plans for new secure training centres for teenage offenders ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER uk latest met blocks brian paddick returning to his job as commander of lambeth by appointing him to another post ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL biskup is an artist who does a lot of work for animation studios his work is inspired by one of my favorite illustrators jim flora tim s selling a deck of poker cards each with a different illo and they look terrific lots of whimsical monsters and happy monkeys and weird prehistoric plants i pre ordered my deck just now hurry only NUMBER decks will be printed link NUMBER discuss NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL lego enthusiasts have implemented three of escher s optical illusion paintings including ascending and descending pictured here using lego link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _via mefi NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER football it s a safe bet that kurt cobain hated sports and when you look at the england football team it s difficult not to agree with him writes steven wells ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business illness and city s mailing of sports empire share are blamed for death ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm calls for major arms deal to save stormont ,0
url URL date not supplied the us military is planning on equipping gulf troops with two way translators palm sized devices with speech recognition and automated translation tried speech to text lately how about babelfish boy is this technology ever gonna suck take he to that chemistry arm vegetable link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks nat NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER metres anish kapoor s sculpture is one of the world s largest ,0
url URL date not supplied ken oral fixation starr has a new cause fighting in the supreme court for the first amendment rights of soth carolinans to get and give tattoos link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks jeremy _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied government employees are routinely screened in a bid to spot spies but the testing is useless says influential panel of scientists ,0
url URL date not supplied pioneering contributions to astrophysics have provided two new windows on the universe ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER tory conference thatcherites cheer former chairman s housing plans ,0
url URL date not supplied the virus has wiped most of india s vultures causing ecological havoc migrating birds could now carry it to europe and africa ,0
url URL date not supplied damaged forms of the newly identified gene are implicated in many breast and lung cancers new treatments for thousands may result ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER cartoon steve bell on the conservative party conference ,0
url URL date not supplied feedback from my posting NUMBER about fogbugz NUMBER setup fell into four categories why make setup reversable instead you should collect all the information from the user and make all the changes in one batch at the end there are a couple of things to understand here first of all even if you do everything in one batch at the end there s always a possibility that some step in the middle of the batch will fail and in that case a well behaved setup program will back out the steps that were already done there are well over NUMBER error messages in the string table for fogbugz setup so the number of things that can fail is not insignificant second it s not nice to tell people about an error in their input three pages after they made the mistake for example early in the fogbugz setup process we prompt you to create an account for fogbugz to use img URL fogbugz setup screenshot the account creation could fail for a myriad of reasons none of which can be predicted before trying to create the account for example the password might not conform to the system password policy and different national versions of windows nt have different rules about accented letters in passwords betcha didn t know that it s better to tell the user about this problem right away so they can correct their input rather than having a message come up during the long install process later forcing the user to back up and fix it and even if you force the user to back up and fix it you still have to undo the first part of the work that you did before creating the account otherwise you ve left their system in an indeterminate state in any case i need to write code to create the account and delete the account in case something later fails i might as well call that code on this page of the wizard where i can display a useful error message and what are the kinds of things that need to be reversable well in order to upgrade fogbugz without requiring a reboot and we _never ever _require a reboot we have to shut down a couple of processes that might have been keeping fogbugz files pinned down such as iis microsoft s web server so part one of the batch is stop iis now if part NUMBER fails for some reason it would be _extremely_ rude to leave iis not running and anyway it s not like i don t need to write the code for start iis for the end of the batch so the code to rollback stop iis is already written no big deal i just need to call it at the right place i think one reason that people think you should gather all the info and then do all the work is because with very large installation programs that are very slow this is a polite way to waste less of the user s time indeed even fogbugz setup does NUMBER of its work at the very end but the create account operation is so fast that principle simply doesn t apply here even our NUMBER of the work phase takes well under a minute most of which is spent waiting for iis to stop and start why did you use vc mfc surely an advanced intelligence such as yourself has admitted by now that delphi NUMBER is more productive first of all leave your language religious fanaticism at the usenet door somehow i managed to figure out_ in high school_ that language advocacy and religious arguments are unbelievably boring secondly even if delphi were more productive the only pertinent question since i am writing the code is _what is more productive for joel spolsky_ and i don t know delphi at all but i know winNUMBER mfc and vc _really really well_ so while i might not outcode a good delphi programmer i would definitely outcode a completely inexperienced delphi programmer which is me certainly over a short NUMBER week project third many of the things i needed to do in this setup program are things like grant the logon as service privilege to an account this is rare enough that the only way to find out how to do this is to search the microsoft knowlege base and the web in general when you search the web in general for how to do fancy things with windows nt what you find is about NUMBER c code maybe NUMBER vb code and NUMBER everything else yes i know i could translate the c code into delphi assuming i was a sophisticated delphi programmer not a completely inexperienced delphi programmer but that costs as much productivity as i would supposedly gain from your supposedly more productive programming language and fourth i already had about NUMBER of the code i needed for setup in mfc format from fogbugz NUMBER NUMBER setup and a library i ve been using for years to make wizards why make setup at all you already have your customers money good setup programs don t increase sales this was actually the smartest question and made me think the hardest i came up with three reasons decreased tech support cost this setup program will pay for itself over the life of the code delight my customers when i m trying to get them to upgrade to NUMBER NUMBER i want them to remember how painless the NUMBER NUMBER installation was so they won t hesitate because they are afraid to upgrade i m still using an old version of spamassassin that is becoming increasingly ineffective even though i know the new version is much better because i just can t bear the thought of another morning wasted the very memory of the first spamassassin installation all the little ssh windows some su ed trying to scroll through man pages and google groups accidentally hitting ctrl z in emacs to undo and having it suspend trying to guess why we can t get the mta to run procmail sorry it s too much if spamassassin was making money off of upgraders they would have lost my business because they don t have a setup program win reviews software reviewers always cast about for some kind of standardized way to rate software even when they are comparing apples and oranges and planets and NUMBERth century philosophers they always have a meaningless list of things to review which can be applied to pc games mainframe databases web site auction software and dna sequencing software and setup is always on their list a single flaw in setup is guaranteed to be mentioned in every review because every reviewer will see it and say aha how can we make wise NUMBER better kudos to the product manager of wise installation system for calling me up and listening to my litany of all the reasons his product wasn t adequate for typical iis asp sql applications NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied berkeley s impact theatre is running a one man show called working for the mouse which details one man s experiences working at disneyland the story of the show s poster NUMBER is pretty funny too link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks barry _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied japanese toilet technology has developed creeping featuritis new tokyo toities sport speech recognition air conditioning and body chemistry monitors japan s toilet wars started in february when matsushita engineers here unveiled a toilet seat equipped with electrodes that send a mild electric charge through the user s buttocks yielding a digital measurement of body fat ratio unimpressed engineers from a rival company inax counterattacked in april with a toilet that glows in the dark and whirs up its lid after an infrared sensor detects a human being when in use the toilet plays any of six soundtracks including chirping birds rushing water tinkling wind chimes or the strumming of a traditional japanese harp link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks may NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world dispatch bush s arguments strain the limits of plausibility to justify war on iraq and this says simon tisdall means regime change is imperative in washington ,0
url URL date not supplied new scientist is throwing a scavenger hunt with two prizes live forever and get a gift certificate good for cryonic freezing or live now and take a luxury trip to hawai i link NUMBER discuss NUMBER _thanks jens NUMBER _ NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _the morning news_ rosencrantz joshua NUMBER words fail me which is a rare and pleasant gift thank you instead i will simply take this opportunity to quote the original _rosencrantz guildenstern are dead_ the excellent play by tom stoppard which i keep nestled in my one remaining bookshelf NUMBER between the _tao te ching_ and roald dahl s _charlie and the chocolate factory_ guil exactly it s a matter of asking the right questions and giving away as little as we can it s a game ros and then we can go guil and receive such thanks as fits a king s remembrance ros i like the sound of that waht do you think he meant by remembrance guil he doesn t forget his friends ros would you care to estimate guil difficult to say really NUMBER some kings tend to be amnesiac others i suppose NUMBER the opposite whatever that is ros yes NUMBER but NUMBER guil elephantine ros not how long NUMBER how much guil _retentive_ NUMBER he s a very retentive king a royal retainer ros what are you playing at guil words words they re all we have to go on NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it s confirmed dora and i will be walking down the aisle to the sounds of the triangle tuba quartet NUMBER that is just too cool for words NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER actually NUMBER NUMBER i clocked my NUMBER long loop NUMBER today and discovered that the run i thought was NUMBER miles is actually only NUMBER NUMBER and the NUMBER short loop NUMBER i thought was NUMBER miles is actually only NUMBER NUMBER i have an off by NUMBER NUMBER bug this is very upsetting i ve lost NUMBER NUMBER miles somewhere if anyone finds them can you please let me know thank you i ran NUMBER miles last week and NUMBER so far this week even taking into account my off by NUMBER NUMBER bug i fear i am turning into a runner my father and i made fun of runners when i was growing up he used to say that you never saw a runner smiling we d drive by runners point at them and say NUMBER look another runner not smiling NUMBER this weighed heavily on my psyche in my formative years so it is with some measure of shame that i admit that i am becoming a runner becoming a runner is actually not that difficult not surprisingly it involves running there s other stuff too eventually but running is the important part if you can run a mile run a mile if you can only run around the block run around the block tomorrow you ll run around the block and the next day you ll find you can run around two blocks and next week you ll find you can run a mile then one day you ll run a mile then stop to catch your breath then get invigorated and run another mile and then you re a runner that s it really it s not complicated you run and you run and you run and one day you discover that shoes are important and that the old sneakers you threw on the first time you tried out this running thing out aren t actually very good for running so you go buy new shoes and you run and you run and you run and later you discover that stretching is important too so you stretch and run and stretch and run and stretch and run there s other stuff too but it doesn t really matter until you re already a runner you learn about differences in running surfaces and how many miles you should really put on one pair of shoes and when in the day you should run to maximize calorie burning and how to train for a marathon and so forth don t worry about any of that now just run running is key otherwise you re just another fat schmuck lying on the couch reading _runner s world_ ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _osnews com_ red hat NUMBER NUMBER for kde users and newbies NUMBER _aaron swartz_ trip notes NUMBER _sean palmer_ the semantic web in haiku NUMBER _shelley powers_ the parable of the languages NUMBER _heather hamilton_ you only get five NUMBER mira sorvino NUMBER portia de rossi NUMBER stockard channing NUMBER jeri ryan NUMBER nigella lawson NUMBER and angelina jolie NUMBER d gave me her list but wouldn t let me post it meh NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date not supplied img URL dynamic html NUMBERd edition NUMBER ah danny goodman has released the new version of dynamic html NUMBER it s been a few years since the first edition which is _still_ the best reference on html despite being severely out of date the new edition is NUMBER packed pages that actually tells you what web browsers that are actually in use actually do which makes it invaluable it has been brought up to date with all the latest browsers and the newest html specs if you re working with html in any way shape or form this book is an absolute requirement NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER us invasion could push saddam hussein into retaliating with chemical or biological weapons warns cia ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rome dispatch italy s post fascist national alliance is behind two controversial attempts to commemorate the country s military past writes philip willan ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER conservative party conference iain duncan smith will today tell the tory old guard to stop sniping at his policy agenda ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER my tivo has been picking up the twilight zone for the last few weeks i have to say i m really enjoying it it reminds me of the old ones it s good to have it back on the air ,0
url URL date not supplied the reserve will protect the pristine habitats of a group of sub antarctic islands described as the wildest place on earth ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER new evidence in case of murdered british tourist peter falconio ,0
url URL date not supplied three researchers are honoured for pioneering ways of identifying large biological molecules such as proteins and dna ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i ll be in ohio this weekend for a family gathering so i ll be missing fleet week google can t find a good official site damn i ve wanted to see the blue angles again wow that site sucks and google couldn t find ,0
url URL date not supplied government employees are routinely screened in a bid to spot spies but the testing is useless says influential panel of scientists ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER yeay we had a good earnings report at work today there was much happiness and a good party after the news i m not quite sure how we managed that but we re still making money i had the distinction of being ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER toumai hailed as our oldest ancestor is stirring ancient scientific rivalries quizzes NUMBER crossword NUMBER interactive guides NUMBER steve bell NUMBER weblog NUMBER other news and comment blair ready to suspend stormont NUMBER NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL NUMBER URL ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER world latest warning to next pm as pakistan goes to the polls ,0
url URL date not supplied sufferers fail to produce effective amounts of key bacteria killing molecules the discovery raises hopes of new treatments for millions ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER media peter preston on the question that split the guardian into two broadsheet and tabloid ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER arts curators despair at shortfall in chancellor s funding ,0
url URL date not supplied the uk environment agency plans to allow a trebling of emissions of a radioactive gas produced in reactors a decision dubbed spineless by critics ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER live online one of britain s leading poets will be here tomorrow at NUMBER NUMBERpm to celebrate national poetry day post your questions now ,0
url URL date not supplied men trying for a baby subconsciously influence their hormone levels and thus sperm production to make conception more likely ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER business powergen yesterday shut down a quarter of its generating capacity ,0
url URL date not supplied a method that could allow scientists to probe our ancestors evolution over the last NUMBER NUMBER years passes its first test ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER society blair brokers whitehall deal on trusts borrowing private cash ,0
url URL date not supplied the new software was switched for dummy code containing a trojan horse on its download servers ,0
url URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER money government admits millions may have to work on beyond NUMBER ,0
url URL date not supplied military communications could be jammed or intercepted and satellites thrown off course or destroyed a new us study warns ,0
 URL maine sunday telegram portland maine sunday december NUMBER NUMBER driver who hit moose fights county over meat by giselle goodman portland press herald writer via URL acton in her freezer at home lisa pierce has ground beef and roasts frozen vegetables and french fries even a couple of popsicles what she doesn t have is the meat of the moose she hit and killed with her car on nov NUMBER the moose that was rightfully hers but instead went to a neighbor the lack of it has her embroiled in a fight with the york county sheriff s department to get back what she says she is owed i think the deputy thought he was doing me a favor said pierce i m a woman and he just neglected to think that i would want it the moose is gone i know that now i want to be compensated for the meat whether or not that happens is uncertain her experience though highlights a law some mainers may not be aware of but should get to know during this peak time of deer versus car accidents as the animals in their mating season come out of the woods the law is simple a big game carcass caught by a car be it a moose deer or bear goes to the person who hits it as long as a law enforcement officer is called to the scene and the vehicle is damaged in the accident it comes up quite often in maine say officials last year there were NUMBER NUMBER cases of vehicles and deer colliding on maine roads and NUMBER accidents involving moose according to mark latti spokesman for the maine warden service in a state of what NUMBER NUMBER million with only NUMBER NUMBER licensed hunters i don t know how many motor vehicle drivers would know how to dress out a moose said latti you do have the option of keeping it which for some people can be valuable compensation for a damaged car farm grown deer meat can retail for NUMBER to NUMBER per pound in stores and a butchered or dressed moose which can t be bought or sold anywhere in maine can produce hundreds of pounds of food latti said when it comes to moose the law has been abused since its inception in NUMBER every now and then an officer will issue a summons to a driver for intentionally killing a moose with a car that kind of hunting makes no sense to latti hitting a moose even at a slow speed is no laughing matter large adult moose can weigh up to NUMBER NUMBER pounds and can be more than NUMBER feet tall since the bulk of their weight is above the hood level of most cars their bodies often come crashing through windshields in collisions more often than not crashes like these damage the vehicle the people inside and the animal sometimes they are fatal in NUMBER latti said there were six moose related fatalities after that when the number of moose hunting permits went from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER there were less maine had three moose related fatalities in NUMBER one in NUMBER and two this year so far said stephen mccausland spokesman for the maine public safety department pierce considers herself lucky that she and the three children in her car did not become part of that statistic early on election day but she also feels cheated by the whole situation after all her car was totaled on the morning of the accident pierce was taking her two children and a neighbor s son to school in her NUMBER dodge dynasty she said she was going along at about NUMBER mph on a well traveled road when a moose came out of nowhere by the time my brain could see moose he was part of my windshield she said pierce is well aware of the law so as she sat in the ambulance with the children being treated for cuts and bruises she thought about the moose but the four of them were transferred to the hospital before she could deal with it so she said she wasn t able to follow up on the animal until later that day when she inquired she was told the deputy on the scene gave the fully racked bull moose to a neighbor who showed up with a tractor her neighbor she said subsequently offered her the moose for the NUMBER it took him to carry it away money she didn t think she should spend by the time she contacted the attorney general s office on nov NUMBER to complain about the deputy giving her moose away the neighbor s price had gone up another NUMBER for the cost of butchering NUMBER pounds of meat and when she called york county chief deputy maurice ouellette to complain that she should be compensated for the moose because it was the officer s fault that she didn t have it ouellette told her he could not give her cash and the best he could do was to give her the next moose struck in york county at that point in time it became an issue of not wanting moose anymore but wanting money ouellette said that conversation and a similar one she had with york county sheriff phil cote left pierce enraged and she now feels the issue has gone beyond the moose but the circumstances that brought her to this point are not surprising to other officials it s the officer s discretion said latti and if the officer feels the person can t immediately remove the animal he s got to think of public safety and other people on the roadway if someone is worried about her children in her car the last thing a law enforcement officer wants to ask is if she wants the moose maine state police trooper jeremy forbes said when he arrives at accidents that involve a serious injury to a person the issue of who gets the animal deer or moose becomes secondary the priorities are the injuries and getting people to the hospital he said if they are really hurt and going to the hospital the animal can t wait so we ll probably give it to the next person who stops by this is not comforting to pierce she said the deputy could have come to the ambulance and asked her what she wanted to do with the moose with her boyfriend a hunter nearby she could have easily taken care of the animal herself she knows her situation is probably a lost cause but she hopes other people especially other women do not have the same experience what about people who don t know the law she said standing up for my rights has just been a big headache staff writer giselle goodman can be contacted at NUMBER NUMBER or at ggoodman URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
just to put the germano indian fascination in context one should note that there is a sizable group of german klingons as well well _i_ see a connection anyway bill william jacobs sporadically underemployed person i wish to god these calculations had been executed by steam charles babbage to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
ray wallace passed away on november NUMBER NUMBER at toledo washington details to follow to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 in forteana y rachel carthy rachel r wrote apparently it has giant walking land squid in it unmissable yay prairie squid rob or admiral ackbar to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 in forteana y d mcmann dmcmann b wrote jeffrey archer the truth hehe brilliant i especially liked the little touches like the flying pigs when maggie tells him she wants him to be her successor i can imagine him watching this in his cell and thinking that it is all perfectly true as he recalls it rob have you seen the missing have you seen sign to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
the material appended below comes from martin gardner s book _fads and fallacies in the name of science_ revised and expanded edition published in NUMBER by dover publications inc new york city bill bennetta _________________________________________________ m ost pseudo scientists have a number of characteristics in common first and most important of these traits is that cranks work in almost total isolation in the sense of having no fruitful contacts with fellow researchers the modern crank insists that his isolation is not desired on his part it is due he claims to the prejudice of established scientific groups against new ideas the modern pseudo scientist stands entirely outside the closely integrated channels through which new ideas are introduced and evaluated he works in isolation he does not send his findings to the recognized journals or if he does they are rejected for reasons which in the vast majority of cases are excellent in most cases the crank is not well enough informed to write a paper with even a surface resemblance to a significant study as a consequence he finds himself excluded the journals and societies and almost universally ignored by the competent workers in his field in fact the reputable scientist does not even know of the crank s existence unless his work is given widespread publicity through non academic channels or unless the scientist makes a hobby of collecting crank literature the eccentric is forced therefore to tread a lonely way he speaks before organizations he himself has founded contributes to journals he himself may edit and until recently publishes books only when he or his followers can raise sufficient funds to have them printed privately a second characteristic of the pseudo scientist which greatly strengthens his isolation is a tendency toward paranoia there are five ways in which the sincere pseudo scientist s paranoid tendencies are likely to be exhibited NUMBER he considers himself a genius NUMBER he regards his colleagues without exception as ignorant blockheads everyone is out of step except himself frequently he insults his opponents by accusing them of stupidity dishonesty or other base motives if they ignore him he takes this to mean his arguments are unanswerable if they retaliate in kind this strengthens his delusion that he is battling scoundrels NUMBER he believes himself unjustly persecuted and discriminated against NUMBER he has a strong compulsion to focus his attacks on the greatest scientists and the best established theories when newton was the outstanding name in physics eccentric works in that science were violently anti newton today with einstein the father symbol of authority a crank theory of physics is likely to attack einstein in the name of newton NUMBER he often has a tendency to write in a complex jargon in many cases making use of terms and phrases he himself has coined terry w colvin sierra vista arizona usa forteanNUMBER URL alternate forteanNUMBER URL home page URL sites fortean times mystic s haven tlcb u s message text formatting usmtf program member thailand laos cambodia brotherhood tlcb mailing list tlcb web site URL vietnam veterans allies cia nsa and steenkeen contractors are welcome to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
i found this interesting but not very original another search engine can t remember which one tho was doing this a long time ago URL postcards from planet google internet the search engine is taking snapshots of its users minds and aggregating them so what is the world thinking about jennifer NUMBER lee at google s squat headquarters off route NUMBER visitors sit in the lobby transfixed by the words scrolling by on the wall behind the receptionist s desk animacio aac n japonese harry potter pense aac es et poemes associao brasileira de normas te aac cnicas the projected display called live query shows updated samples of what people around the world are typing into google s search engine the terms scroll by in english chinese spanish swedish japanese korean french dutch italian _ any of the NUMBER languages that google tracks the scrolling continues people who shouldn t marry she smoked a cigar mr potatoheads in long island pickup lines to get women auto theft fraud how to stare at live query long enough and you feel you are watching the collective consciousness of the world stream by each line represents a thought from someone somewhere with an internet connection google collects these queries _ NUMBER million a day from more than NUMBER countries _ in its databases updating and storing the computer logs millisecond by millisecond google is taking snapshots of its users minds and aggregating them so what is the world thinking about sex for one thing you can learn to say sex in a lot of different languages by looking at the logs said craig silverstein director of technology at google to keep live query g rated google filters out sex related searches though less successfully with foreign languages despite its geographic and ethnic diversity the world is spending much of its time thinking about the same things the same topic areas bubble to the top celebrities current events products and computer downloads it s amazing how similar people are all over the world based on what they are searching for said greg rae one of three members of google s logs team which is responsible for building storing and protecting the data record google s following _ it is the most widely used search engine _ has given mr rae a worldview from his cubicle since october NUMBER he has been able to reel off anthrax in several languages including milzbrand in german and carbonchio in italian he says he can also tell which countries took their recent elections seriously brazil and germany because of the frenzy of searches he notes that the globalisation of consumer culture means that the most popular brands are far flung in origin nokia sony bmw ferrari ikea and microsoft judging from google s data some sports events stir interest almost everywhere the tour de france wimbledon the melbourne cup horse race and the world series were among the top NUMBER sports related searches last year it also becomes obvious just how familiar american movies music and celebrities are to searchers across the globe two years ago a google engineer named lucas pereira noticed that searches for britney spears had declined indicating what he thought must be a decline in her popularity from that observation grew google zeitgeist a listing of the top gaining and declining queries of each week and month glancing over google zeitgeist is like taking a trivia test in cultural literacy ulrika jonsson the swedish born british television host and girlfriend of england football coach sven goran eriksson made the list recently so did irish travellers a nomadic ethnic group one of whose members was videotaped beating her young daughter in indiana and fentanyl the narcotic gas used in the moscow raid to rescue hostages taken by chechen rebels in late october the long lasting volume of searches involving her name has made britney spears something of a benchmark for the logs team it has helped them understand how news can cause spikes in searches as it did when she broke up with justin timberlake google can feel the reverberations of such events and others of a more serious nature immediately on feb NUMBER NUMBER for example an earthquake began near seattle at NUMBER NUMBER am local time within two minutes earthquake related searches jumped to NUMBER a minute from almost none with a concentration in the us pacific northwest on sept NUMBER searches for the world trade center pentagon and cnn shot up immediately after the attacks over the next few days nostradamus became the top search query fuelled by a rumour that nostradamus had predicted the trade center s destruction but the most trivial events may also register on google s sensitive cultural seismic meter the logs team came to work one morning to find that carol brady maiden name had surged to the top of the charts curious they mapped the searches by time of day and found that they were neatly grouped in five spikes each one starting at NUMBER minutes after the hour as the logs were passed through the office employees were perplexed why would there be a surge in interest in a character from the NUMBERs sitcom the brady bunch but the data could only reflect patterns not explain them that is a paradox of a google log it does not capture social phenomena per se but merely the shadows they cast across the internet the most interesting part is why said amit patel who has been a member of the logs team you can t interpret it unless you know what else is going on in the world so what had gone on on april NUMBER NUMBER that night the million dollar question on the game show who wants to be a millionaire had been what was carol brady s maiden name seconds after the show s host posed the question thousands flocked to google to search for the answer tyler producing four spikes as the show was broadcast successively in each us time zone the precision of the carol brady data was eye opening for some it was like trying an electron microscope for the first time said sergey brin who as a graduate student in computer science at stanford helped found google in NUMBER and is now its president for technology it was like a moment by moment barometer predictably google s query data respond to television movies and radio but the mass media also feed off the demands of their audiences one of google s strengths is its predictive power flagging trends before they hit the radar of other media as such it could be of tremendous value to entertainment companies or retailers google is quiet about what if any plans it has for commercialising its vast store of query information there is tremendous opportunity with this data mr silverstein said the challenge is defining what we want to do google currently does not allow outsiders to gain access to raw data because of privacy concerns searches are logged by time of day originating ip address information that can be used to link searches to a specific computer and the sites on which the user clicked people tell things to search engines that they would never talk about publicly _ viagra pregnancy scares fraud facelifts what is interesting in the aggregate can be seem an invasion of privacy if narrowed to an individual in aggregate form google s data can make a stunning presentation next to mr rae s cubicle is the geodisplay a NUMBER inch screen that gives a three dimensional geographical representation of where google is being used around the globe the searches are represented by coloured dots shooting into the atmosphere the colours _ red yellow orange _ convey the impression of a globe whose major cities are on fire the tallest flames are in new york tokyo and the san francisco bay area each country has a distinctive usage pattern spain france and italy have a midday lull in google searches presumably reflecting leisurely lunches and relaxation in japan the peak usage is after midnight when phone rates for dial up modems drop google s worldwide scope means that the company can track ideas and phenomena as they hop from country to country take las ketchup a trio of singing sisters who became a sensation in spain last spring with a gibberish song and accompanying knee knocking dance similar to the macarena like a series of waves google searches for las ketchup undulated through europe over the summer and fall the ketchup song hey hah has already topped the charts in NUMBER countries in late summer google s logs show las ketchup searches began a strong upward climb in the united states britain and the netherlands haven t heard of las ketchup if you haven t google predicts you soon will rgrds bernard _______________________________________________ iiu mailing list iiu URL URL ,0
hi i was just wondering if anyone experiening difficulty with eircom mail sever i was trying to send mail from mozilla mail but it keeps coming up with this error sorry that domain isnt in my list of allows rcpthosts NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please check the message recipients and try again what is this all about i am using URL as my smtp and my pop i can recieve mail but i cannot send mail is there any other open relay that i can use nils also i was just browsing the web and came across this URL its a seminar on cough security and reliable cough maybe ilug should go along and hold a seminar on the same day right across the hall from this nils irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 in forteana y that goddess chick felinda f wrote it s official i m a failure the only moderately famous schoolmates i have are both now freelance tech journos one gordon laing used to be editor of personal computer world personal page http www glnow com and the other laurence grayson seems to pop up frequently in zdnet publications URL reveals the accurate statement nobody does mournfully better than laurence i have the satisfaction of knowing that the former is now raving bald and that i once stole the latter s girlfriend oh yes nearly forgot ramon tikaram tanita s brother who s gone from cutthroat island to the series this life and has now reached the dizzying heights of crossroads he isn t a half bad musician actually he was a year or two above me at uni so i m not sure that he counts my uncle was at oxfnord with alan bennett and a few others whose names i forget my wife tells me that someone she was at school with became one of the teletubbies well they were from st just what can you expect and another who rev joe might know is now a movie special effects wizard called bellamy possibly pete definitely not david rob and then there was the time i nearly knocked harold wilson under a train to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
yes i enjoyed it then afterwards there was a debate thing on itv about genius or madness featuring a friend of mine s boss plus david icke also the very likeable evelyn glennie dave to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
jets attempt to intercept contrail by robert burns ap military writer washington ap the military command responsible for the defense of north american airspace scrambled fighter jets in response to unverified reports of an airborne condensation trail or contrail moving from the caribbean to the united states defense officials said thursday lt col michael humm a pentagon spokesman said the incident happened wednesday and that the north american aerospace defense command in colorado springs colo was continuing to investigate the reported contrail stirred concern because of the possibility that it could have indicated the presence of an unauthorized jet aircraft in or approaching american airspace in the aftermath of the sept NUMBER attacks the pentagon has taken greater precautions to monitor u s airspace a contrail is created by vapor from a jet engine in the presence of cold air the jets that were scrambled to attempt to intercept and identify the source of the contrail found nothing said lt cmdr curtis jenkins a norad spokesman he said norad had developed no new information since the initial report at NUMBER p m est on wednesday norad is reviewing data from its tracking radars in search of evidence he said a pentagon statement said norad received unverified reports of what appeared to be a contrail of unknown origin originally in the vicinity of the turks and caicos islands in the caribbean initially it was reported to be heading northwestward toward the united states the statement said commercial airline pilots later reported the contrail over florida and later over indiana thereafter no other sightings were reported the reported contrail was never verified by visual or radar contact the pentagon statement said at the federal aviation administration spokesman paul turk said i m aware of the reports he referred all questions to norad jenkins said he was not sure who reported the initial sighting over the caribbean he also was unsure who requested norad to launch fighter jets or from which military bases they were scrambled we don t necessarily judge or second guess when a request comes to us to investigate a contrail he said meanwhile reports of a ball of fire streaking across the sky early thursday had people throughout the northwest flooding radio and television stations with calls reporting a meteor shower it was believed that the light came from a russian rocket body re entering the earth s atmosphere about NUMBER NUMBER a m the u s strategic command in omaha neb and the north american aerospace defense command confirmed a russian rocket fell back to earth but gave no further details ap ny NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERest copyright NUMBER the associated press the information contained in the ap online news report may not be published broadcast or redistributed without the prior written authority of the associated press terry w colvin sierra vista arizona usa forteanNUMBER URL alternate forteanNUMBER URL home page URL sites fortean times mystic s haven tlcb u s message text formatting usmtf program member thailand laos cambodia brotherhood tlcb mailing list tlcb web site URL vietnam veterans allies cia nsa and steenkeen contractors are welcome to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 leonard r cleavelin wrote scat i have unfortunately run across but this is the second reference i ve seen in as many weeks to japanese tentacle porn which is a genre i ve lived in complete and probably blissful ignorance of until now unless it s going to gross out a significant percentage of the readership of the list can we have a definition description some of us lead sheltered lives URL now isn t your life just soooo much more enriched dave palmer terry w colvin sierra vista arizona usa forteanNUMBER URL alternate forteanNUMBER URL home page URL sites fortean times mystic s haven tlcb u s message text formatting usmtf program member thailand laos cambodia brotherhood tlcb mailing list tlcb web site URL vietnam veterans allies cia nsa and steenkeen contractors are welcome to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
i think i understand the feeling a few years ago i caught up with a couple of old fianc s both now authors and notable in their field one is a minor celebrity perhaps i should say was because fame can be so fleeting and i do not know the current status but she still commands buck on the lecture circuit i authored some technical material through the years which are probably long forgotten i am also notable sort of kind of in some very narrow fields how many mando bass artists could there be so have that feather in my cap if i cared about it i feel i am only a little jealous or depressed thinking about my own accomplishments or lack thereof what does bug me is that these NUMBER probably have some real good juicy stories and i m not getting to hear any of them that s one reason i love this list steve to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
well i know a guy that split up from her that wrote harry potter though he is doing fine i was offered a film part as a shot up gangster but turned it down seemed good to me ultra violence and working with nice people meant a week in prague in feb bj scene old lady going ballistic if i went there apparantly my bits belong to her damn never been in a straight to video before so they are currently thinking of cutting out the sex scene on my bit they want me as menacing though which is nice to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
raymond l wallace NUMBER bigfoot story teller NUMBER NUMBER ray wallace a controversial figure involved in NUMBER years of bigfoot related events died november NUMBER NUMBER in toledo washington the washington state construction tycoon had been ill for some time living in a toledo rest home it was at bluff creek california in NUMBER which found ray wallace¹s company building a new road through the northern california forest in august through october wallace construction company s employee jerry crew found tracks of a huge humanlike foot thanks to instructions from taxidermist bob titmus crew made the first plaster casts of a footprint from this hairy upright creature his fellow workers called ³bigfoot ² crew took the cast to town to quiet local ridicule and showed it to a humboldt county newspaper editor the photograph of jerry crew with the giant plaster of paris foot imprint went out over the newswires it produced a revolutionary shift from small regional stories of sasquatch to today¹s global awareness of bigfoot soon after the publicized crew finds wallace and his brother claimed other bigfoot activity around the construction site wallace said he found tracks and droppings of bigfoot wallace was to be involved with the local tales of hairy giants for the rest of his life allegedly in the later in the NUMBERs for example wallace offered to sell texas millionaire tom slick a captured bigfoot wallace failed to produce the creature when slick came up with an offer down through the years wallace would carry on pranks be tied to carved fake sasquatch feet and produce and try to sell dubious photographs and films he was a great letter writer and would pen long passages to magazine editors about this photographs or telling of how he knew a bigfoot was nearby guarding a mine full of gold after awhile most bigfoot hunters and researchers took wallace as merely a spinner of fanciful tall tales through his contributions to strange magazine the track record and indirectly to fate magazine wallace relished keeping his name in the limelight of the bigfoot mystery in march NUMBER ray wallace offered a million dollars to the first person who could bring him a live baby bigfoot saying he had tracked bigfoot for forty years wallace claimed he wanted to raise a young sasquatch to adulthood wallace told reporters he planned to raise a baby bigfoot with ³care and respect² and would like to train the creature to ride around with him in his pickup truck and help out with chores around his ranch no one came forth with a baby bigfoot ray wallace added an intriguing mostly harmless story telling element to the otherwise often serious pursuit of bigfoot that various friends of his such as ray crowe director of the international bigfoot society enjoyed ray wallace was interred at the lone hill cemetery in toledo washington state on november NUMBER NUMBER loren coleman NUMBER URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
best bang for the buck NUMBER hp mustang cobra NUMBERk gg recently emerged from the passenger side of a NUMBER with the largest smile original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of joseph s barrera iii sent sunday december NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject re mercedes benz gNUMBER on the other end of the spectrum i just bought a honda del sol for my new commute to san jose from san bruno i wonder if it would fit in the cargo area of a gNUMBER joe ,0
use perl daily newsletter in this issue the NUMBER perl advent calendar the NUMBER perl advent calendar posted by pudge on sunday december NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER modules URL NUMBER NUMBERshortplanks writes doesn t december come round quickly announcing the NUMBER third perl advent calendar the advent calendar that features a different perl module each day of advent and a bonus module on christmas day this year s improvements include each day having its own mini tutorial attached and much better html discuss this story at URL links NUMBER mailto useperlreply URL NUMBER URL copyright NUMBER NUMBER pudge all rights reserved you have received this message because you subscribed to it on use perl to stop receiving this and other messages from use perl or to add more messages or change your preferences please go to your user page URL you can log in and change your preferences from there ,0
 it s official i m a failure just finished listening to one of my high school classmates being interviewed on npr about her new film that she wrote and directed based on her recent successful book do i have a film out no do i have a successful book no me i spent nine months this year on the dole becky was off in hollywood i believe i ll go drown my sorrows in vanilla coke now well you might be successful too if arthur miller had been your father or is this some other movie john k to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
jay lake wrote it s official i m a failure just finished listening to one of my high school classmates being interviewed on npr about her new film that she wrote and directed based on her recent successful book do i have a film out no do i have a successful book no me i spent nine months this year on the dole becky was off in hollywood NUMBER those of us who are envious of your success as a writer and artist might find this a bit hard to understand NUMBER once when forced to mix with a wife s associate s french husband who spent most of his time blowing his horn about how he had wined and dined and hung out with the famous and wonderful i became progressively more and more jethro like until i was using phrases like heehaw y all you done talked to him my counterpart never noticed my evolutionary decline even as hair sprouted from my knuckles my forehead contracted my eyebrows merged and i started grunting fortunately my wife intervened and i was prevented from doing my moonwatcher imitation with the chicken bones left from dinner regression is a wonderful curative rickk no truth to the rumour i scratched my armpit to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
nova nova wrote bass and treble settings do not seem to have any affect on the sound look around for a tone toggle toggle it _______________________________________________ rpm list mailing list rpm list freshrpms net URL ,0
 well you might be successful too if arthur miller had been your father or is this some other movie nope that s her particularly exciting moments stage managing the crucible my senior year when becky s dad came to see his little girl in his play and our male lead fell off the stage ahem the joys of attending choate where even as high school bloke you can make big mistakes with other peoples real money NUMBER those of us who are envious of your success as a writer and artist might find this a bit hard to understand hey rick that s quite nice not to demean my own accomplishments but i don t have a film deal which pays more per hour than i ll make in a lifetime of short fiction otoh count my blessings i ve had fourteen stories in print this year already fifteen more coming next year strong critical reception and my first collection due out this coming spring ah i feel much better now take that becky miller but i ll bet she drives a nicer car than me jay back to work on the megafelid cranial capacity story story words daily microfiction at URL coming soon at blogspot teeth party the mad hater and the dorkmouse watch for my upcoming fiction tall spirits blocking the night talebones NUMBER dec NUMBER jack s house strange horizons dec NUMBER of stone castles and vainglorious time redsine jan NUMBER one is all alone strange horizons jan NUMBER you want candy as of yet untitled feb NUMBER walking backward through the countries of life hour of pain feb NUMBER jay lake URL jlake URL NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
on sun NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER geege schuman wrote best bang for the buck NUMBER hp mustang cobra NUMBERk gg recently emerged from the passenger side of a NUMBER with the largest smile if only they weren t the ugliest things ford has ever produced in a long and distinguished history of ugly luis former owner of a recent model mustang and hence allowed to talk p s you can get an rsx type s with NUMBERhp for NUMBERk i have not yet driven an rsx but if it s anything like a late model integra it will kick the ass of the mustang in anything that requires you to actually move the steering wheel from the center position original message from fork admin URL mailto fork admin URL on behalf of joseph s barrera iii sent sunday december NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to fork URL subject re mercedes benz gNUMBER on the other end of the spectrum i just bought a honda del sol for my new commute to san jose from san bruno i wonder if it would fit in the cargo area of a gNUMBER joe ,0
terry w colvin fwded leonard r cleavelin wrote scat i have unfortunately run across but this is the second reference i ve seen in as many weeks to japanese tentacle porn which is a genre i ve lived in complete and probably blissful ignorance of until now unless it s going to gross out a significant percentage of the readership of the list can we have a definition description some of us lead sheltered lives URL now isn t your life just soooo much more enriched dave palmer not a new japanese genre either check out hokusai s dream of the fisherman s wife at URL and you don t want to know how many waves and views of mt fuji i had to wade through to find that for you discerning connoisseurs rachel the banana is also the safest pistol from the assassin s point of view bystanders are unlikely to intervene when one person chases another down the street brandishing a banana indeed they may not believe that they saw it _killer the game of assassination_ steve jackson to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
one of the main strands of this modernisation is to have all stations on a retained basis at night basically this means that the fire station will be unmanned and in the event of a fire the fire fighters will be summonsed by pagers the same way that they currently are in a lot of rural regions the main reason for this is that fewer fires occur at night however the majority of fatalities in fires do occur at night and the recent deaths during the fire fighters strike all occurred at night over half of these happened in areas currently covered by retained crews who aren t on strike and would appear to give a grim foreshadowing of what may be to come currently one of the conditions for being in a retained crew is that you must live work within one mile of the station how they will apply this to whole time fire fighters is still unclear a good friend of mine is a station officer in hampshire and currently lives NUMBER miles from his station so how he ll respond to fire calls at night is a mystery and i can t see many fire fighters living within a mile of some of the inner london stations dave to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 forwarded by william knowles erehwon cNUMBERi org URL mainichi shimbun dec NUMBER NUMBER kashiwa chiba a man has been arrested for using his camera equipped mobile phone to take a photo of the inside of a schoolgirl s skirt as she rode an escalator here police said toyokazu hamano NUMBER a company employee from noda chiba prefecture was arrested for breaking a chiba prefectural government law forbidding people from creating a public nuisance hamano admits to the allegations police said hamano was riding behind the girl on an escalator at jr kashiwa station when he took out his mobile phone held it underneath the girl s skirt and took a photo the girl was alerted to his presence by the noise emitted by the phone camera s shutter she turned around to catch hamano with his hands between her legs ,0
 it s official i m a failure same here one NUMBERth form college colleague is yvette cooper mp for pontefract and castleford and parliamentary secretary at the lord chancellor s department a strange constituency for someone born and bred in rural hampshire a fellow pupil at school was julie fernandez who was in the fabulous soap eldorado and played brenda in the recent series of the office dave govt wage slave in manchester to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 in forteana y jayne ayris jayris b wrote think of a letter between a and w oh all right then i ll give it a go hmm let s see l now think of an animal that begins with that letter lynx repeat it out loud as you scroll down lynx lynx lynx lynx lynx think of either a man s woman s name that begins with the last letter in the animals name xena almost there ok now count out the letters in that name on the fingers of the hand you are not using to scroll down x e n a take the hand you counted with and hold it out in front of you at face level all righty look at you palm very closely and notice the lines in your hand lots of lines lines and lines and lines and lines do the lines take the form of the first letter in the persons name holy crap they do amazing feckin x s all over the feckin place man that is sooo cool NUMBER NUMBER of course not au contraire look at em xxxxxxxxxxs zillions of em i am looking at them this very moment now smack yourself in the head get a life and quit playing stupid e mail games are you talking to moi are you accusing me of being less than sapient are you suggesting i am life bereft igor power up a couple of dozen web bots the search and destroy attack ones with the hard drive killers i shall have my revenge in this domain or the next robin not the bae systems spy at all it turns out hill steamy bess brough east yorkshire to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 us listers will recognise damian lewis as lieutenant captain major winters from band of brothers which is annoying as he was one of the actors i was sure was actually american i wouldn t be surprised now if someone told me they were all british actors stew i was watching that last night and i couldn t help wondering if one of the gis was dexter fletcher out of the crystal maze does this mean it could actually have been him timh who once snogged shauna lowery if anyones heard of her to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
timh i was watching that last night and i couldn t help wondering if one of the gis was dexter fletcher out of the crystal maze yup was him out of press gang who once snogged shauna lowery if anyones heard of her did you have to kneel down dave to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 in forteana y david mcquirk david mcquirk d wrote timh i was watching that last night and i couldn t help wondering if one of the gis was dexter fletcher out of the crystal maze yup was him out of press gang who once snogged shauna lowery if anyones heard of her did you have to kneel down dave its possibly a different shauna lowery the one i m talking about is about NUMBER foot tall and presents animal hospital or something like that tim h to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 its possibly a different shauna lowery the one i m talking about is about NUMBER foot tall and presents animal hospital or something like that tim h oh and i m less than NUMBER foot tall so it would be her who had to kneel down to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 hi i was just wondering if anyone experiening difficulty with eircom mail sever i was trying to send mail from mozilla mail but it keeps coming up with this error sorry that domain isnt in my list of allows rcpthosts NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please check the message recipients and try again what is this all about i am using URL as my smtp and my pop i can recieve mail but i cannot send mail is there any other open relay that i can use i think you ll find it s at eircons end i occasionally have problems sending to a server i use whose admin said it s a known bug for which he had to apply a patch you ll probably want to tell eircon s admins that they need to patch the server and to re do it if they think it s already done sorry for the lame answer but it s been so long i ve forgotten the details have fun jim irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
timh its possibly a different shauna lowery the one i m talking about is about NUMBER foot tall and presents animal hospital or something like that ahhh i m getting my lowry s sp mixed up i was thinking of lowry turner of diy sos about NUMBER feet shorter dave to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
url NUMBER URL date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERtNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER upon arriving safely in raleigh our stewardess sang us this to the tune of barney s i love you you love me we love you you love us we re much faster than the bus we hope you ve enjoyed our hos pi tal i ty marry one of us and you ll fly free ,0
 URL it s a shame that these guys are some controversial sect i d be much more into it if these were mainstream and we could task the kneejerk christians with this fact t URL an open loop shows every saturday URL submit to the calendar to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
one more congratulation from me tim why ro instead of rose as a short form of rosemary is it a welsh thing bill william jacobs sporadically underemployed person i wish to god these calculations had been executed by steam charles babbage to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL loo rolls of honour and the invisible man paper clips a round up of the weekly press by steven mccaffery the powers that be tell us that crime does not pay and they found an ally in the ulster herald this week which carries a cautionary tale for anyone thinking of embarking on a criminal career the omagh based paper s as the man says column brings a story which originated in the middle east a gent recently attempted to rob a bank in tehran the columnist reports he was unarmed and began seizing bank notes from customers hands it is then explained he had paid NUMBER to a local sorcerer and believed that he was invisible in the lurgan mail there was also news of a dramatic robbery a lurgan newsagent has told how thieves drilled their way through three walls to steal NUMBER NUMBER worth of cigarettes recently in an attack which was well planned and professional the paper reports the thieves broke through the back wall of a religious gifts shop next door to the newsagents and then drilled through the partition between the back hallway and the front shop moving statues of religious icons out of the way the gang then drilled into the back of the newsagent s cigarette stand removing the contents the owner of the paper chase shop is pictured next to the gaping hole left in his store and is quoted as saying on monday morning when my wife was opening everything looked normal but when she opened the shutters she found herself looking into the shop next door the paper reports that the shop was the target of another well organised crime NUMBER weeks ago when thieves escaped with a safe the shop s owner says the closer it gets to christmas the more people are going to be open to this the issues of crime and punishment are tackled by a columnist in the down democrat writing in the downpatrick based newspaper john coulter calls on the authorities to birch the vandals plaguing the local community he is shocked at reports of the wanton destruction by vandals and issues a call for action the time has come to fight fire with fire he writes before unemployed paramilitaries decide to impose vigilante rule and start using so called kangaroo courts to dish out their own brand of sentences on those found guilty of anti social behaviour as an alternative to such reckless violence he recommends controlled violence it was a sorry day that the manx authorities banned the use of the birch as a weapon in dealing with unruly elements of the isle of man getting his defence in early he immediately rounds on any woolly liberal who may oppose his plan in many islamic countries public flogging of convicted criminals is the order of the day you might laugh and say there is little chance of such measures being introduced in the united kingdom or ireland given that corporal punishment was abolished in the vast majority of northern schools in the late NUMBERs however people seem to forget that islam is the fastest growing faith on the british mainland and it s only a matter of time before it numerically passes christianity joe mcnally flaneur at large URL i am the centre which exists only because the geometry of the abyss demands it fernando pessoa currently playing nothing to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
ok if an email address is not in my whitelist they are asked to confirm in that message there is the following text if your message was an unsolicited message attempting to sell kevin some product or advertise one scam or another then do not reply to this message if you do reply and he has some free time on his hands he ll find out who and where you are and send you his review of your email and an invoice for eur NUMBER NUMBER for his services plus he ll probably try to patch me in some unpleasant way so please don t reply if you re one of those people in addition all of this information is logged in the past two to three months two spammers have replied i think that this is a valid notice what i m wondering is the following a are there debt collection agencies you can hire to get such debts b if i can t get money from them can i declare them on my taxes here as a bad debt and get tax relief one way to get the gov t to notice spam kevin kevin URL dante hicks but you hate people fork ed on NUMBER randal graves yes but i love gatherings meatspace place home isn t it ironic URL clerks irish linux users group social events social URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
this is possible however using sa as a block criteria is not recommended sa does have a very realistic chance of mis marking mail so using it as an autodelete function is at best extraordinarily foolish however here s what the procmail rule will look like dug up from an old post to this list by steve thomas in your procmailrc file NUMBER x spam status yes dev null do not do this you ll throw out a lot of legitimate messages over time instead do what the docs suggest and put them into a separate mail folder NUMBER x spam status yes maildir spam at NUMBER NUMBER pm NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER erik jakobsen wrote hi how can i block e mails comming to me by aid of sa med venlig hilsen best regards erik jakobsen erik URL suse linux NUMBER NUMBER this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL this URL email is sponsored by get the new palm tungsten t handheld power color in a compact size URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,0
 martin adamson martin srvNUMBER ems ed ac uk wrote two demonstrators heading to saturday s anti war march in san francisco were critically injured when their heads sticking through the roof of a former school bus hit the top of the broadway tunnel not quite so funny as they both subsequently died i think broadly i was trying to be both vulgar and ironic in a big city as small as san francisco there is as i believe i stated in the initial post maybe one place in the whole that they shoulda kept their heads inside they were told to they didn t and they got what was coming to them i ll feel bad about getting a sick chuckle out of it maybe when it happens to someone i know personally til then haw haw haw like the darwin awards get it sloanie __________________________________________________ do you yahoo yahoo mail plus powerful affordable sign up now URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 original message from tim chapman timc NUMBERubh com to zzzzteana zzzzteana yahoogroups com sent monday november NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject zzzzteana an announcement mr tim chapman freelance gentleman of letters of halifax yorkshire announces his betrothal to dr ro gault virtual reality boffin of cardiff university wales nuptials to be arranged at later date no flowers timc bloody hell she said yes ________________________ congratulations ro tim here s to your lifelong happiness here s some advice written by odgen nash to keep love brimming in the loving cup when you re wrong admit it and when you re right shut up best wishes ju to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 mr tim chapman freelance gentleman of letters of halifax yorkshire announces his betrothal to dr ro gault virtual reality boffin of cardiff university wales nuptials to be arranged at later date no flowers timc bloody hell she said yes yay jayne to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
smith graham computing technician wrote URL thats a strata NUMBER isnt it are there any other publically accessible ntp servers in ireland URL URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
geege wrote a strange story i know a guy who in attempting to loosen a nut at the base of the toilet tapped it with a wrench cracked the bowl in half and to prevent a flood held the bowl together with his knees until his wife returned from work quite some time later the bowl doesn t hold that much water i would have let it spill and then cleaned it up even the tank only holds a gallon if new or three if old _________________________________________________________________ msn NUMBER helps eliminate e mail viruses get NUMBER months free URL ,0
 paul moore but let s walk before we run after all we may end up all using zodb in any case i d like this despite the additional installation burden we can ship binaries for windows and mac and not only for technical reasons as i understand it post NUMBER NUMBERx versions of the core bsddb code ship under the sleepycat license which demands that projects using it must be published source this is a problem if we want spambayes to be fully psf licensed if someone wants to take the spambayes source and fund their addictions by creating a commercial closed source spam filter product the psf license allows that but not if the code relies on bsddb not that i m in favour of people making money from spambayes unless it s me NUMBER but the psf license does allow for it it should be all or nothing or do i have this all wrong slightly ot this has concerned me since plabs announced that they were integrating bsddb into python NUMBER NUMBER it s going to make it very easy especially on windows for someone to write code that uses anydbm wrap it up with pyNUMBERexe and ship it under a commercial license not knowing that they re breaking the sleepycat license they ve never heard of sleepycat software or even bsddb as far as they re concerned this bsddb pyd file that pyNUMBERexe tells them they need to ship is just another part of python like _socket pyd or select pyd richie hindle richie URL _______________________________________________ spambayes mailing list spambayes URL URL ,0
on mon nov NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER philip trickett wrote how much overhead does this add to your daily email reading like i said two emails in about NUMBER to NUMBER months now tell me is there a way to stop them from forging the from address to a nonexistent address at a domain you own and use actively at the moment i am at NUMBER bounces and counting good job i m on adsl otherwise i would be throwing a fit yes i whitelist the minimum required kevin kevin URL dante hicks but you hate people fork ed on NUMBER randal graves yes but i love gatherings meatspace place home isn t it ironic URL clerks irish linux users group social events social URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
 i don t know how one can expect better and more secure code from the community when this being a security list some post like this shows clearly no knowledge of c on fri nov NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER ali saifullah khan wrote here is a test done on the return of sizes by sizeof using pointers include iostream h int main void char testbuff NUMBER read it like this new array with NUMBER elements of type pointer to char as a pointer occupies the natural word size NUMBER bits or NUMBERbits no wonder you get NUMBER NUMBER sizeof char numer_of_elements int len sizeof testbuff cout len n return NUMBER using int len sizeof char testbuff sizeof returns the size of types you can use it with vars and then the normal form is sizeof var not sizeof var but if you re changing the type with the var with a cast of course you ll get the size of that new type regards luciano rocha consciousness that annoying time between naps ,0
no you need to learn how declarations work in c you have specified testbuff as an array of NUMBER pointers to characters that means you have allocated an array big enough to store NUMBER pointers on most machines that s NUMBER bytes per pointer which indeed would give you NUMBER john on fri nov NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm NUMBER ali saifullah khan wrote here is a test done on the return of sizes by sizeof using pointers include iostream h int main void char testbuff NUMBER int len sizeof testbuff cout len n return NUMBER c debug testbuff NUMBER the output from this is NUMBER but infact it should be returning NUMBER apparently using a pointer has multiplied the value of the original size of the testbuff buffer by the size of the pointer char pointers have a size of NUMBER bytes as is shown when output is NUMBER bytes using int len sizeof char testbuff c debug testbuff NUMBER so sizeof is returning the size of the first entity passed to it that being the size of the pointer whats confusing is when sizeof outputs the value for something like char testbuff here the macro seems to be multiplying the sizes of entities passed to it by considering the first entity as the pointer denoted by the asterisk itself and then taking this value of NUMBER and multiplying it with the size of the buffer testbuff which is NUMBER to produce an output of NUMBER rather strange behaviour original message from cdavison URL to secprog URL cc viega securesoftware com sent tuesday november NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am subject re are bad developer libraries the problem with m software original message from john viega sent NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pm to cdavison URL cc secprog URL subject re are bad developer libraries the problem with m software strlen does not work because he was trying to get at the allocated size of a buffer not the actual size of the buffer you re right i was looking at the safe_strncpy code and it looks like the author did use strlen sizeof will return the size of the data type passed to it so if you declared mystr as char mystr NUMBER it will return as the original author wanted it will not work with a char so if your strings are dynamically allocated or passed to you as a pointer these macros will not work ,0
 richie as i understand it post NUMBER NUMBERx versions of the core bsddb code richie ship under the sleepycat license which demands that projects richie using it must be published source don t use bsddb in a closed source product use dbm or dumdbm or use pickles or roll your own thang i doubt the presence of bsddb would be the only barrier to creating a closed source product based upon the spambayes code skip _______________________________________________ spambayes mailing list spambayes URL URL ,0
 paul i suspect the best answer is to make the dbm implementation paul configurable via bayescustomize ini with the default being paul anydbm i think you might want to specify the database open function instead of just the module there are three ways to open db files with bsddb btopen hashopen rnopen that will require a little more trickery in URL but not an insane amount skip _______________________________________________ spambayes mailing list spambayes URL URL ,0
the times december NUMBER NUMBER university boom creates era of sexual tolerance by helen rumbelow the boom in university education has led to a sea change in britain s tolerance of homosexuality according to a report just under half the people now believe that homosexuality is always or mostly wrong down from three quarters NUMBER years ago according to the british social attitudes survey regarded as one of the best indicators of popular opinion that trend is mirrored by the attitude towards ethnic minorities with NUMBER per cent of people now saying they are not at all racially prejudiced compared with NUMBER per cent in NUMBER geoffrey evans a politics professor at oxford university decided to focus on what has caused britain to become more open minded in a report published today the study from the national centre for social research is based on interviews with a cross section of NUMBER NUMBER people young people are much more tolerant than their elders with a quarter of twentysomethings believing that homosexual sex is always wrong compared with two thirds of pensioners but the key to converting a bigot is to send him or her to college with graduates twice as accepting of homosexuals as those with no gcses and a third less racist that transformation happened no matter what social class the student came from and with NUMBER per cent of young people now attending university it was a powerful social effect professor evans said mr blair s famous mantra education education education seems far less consequential now than when first announced in NUMBER as britain struggles with an overburdened health service and the reality that as more and more people get degrees degrees buy less and less he said but the growth of higher education can provide a bulwark against the undermining of liberal democracy through intolerance he added he decided to see whether the tolerance conferred by schooling was just political correctness by testing how many civil rights the educated would give to an unattractive minority white supremacists again people scored higher the longer they had spent at school and university with nearly two thirds of graduates saying that white supremacists should have the right to give television interviews or stand in elections three times as many as those with no qualifications it is not clear why those with higher education are more tolerant the report says adding that it may be simply because university students have increased contact with alternative points of view professor evans also looked at whether the young may grow out of their idealism but found the opposite to be true thirtysomethings were more than twice as likely to say there was nothing wrong with homosexuality as they were when they were in their early twenties he said that as these groups of more educated young people replaced the older generation britain would become an ever more relaxed place soft drugs have also grown in widespread acceptability with more than half the country wanting cannabis to be legalised compared with a third seven years ago that is probably because the use of cannabis is now so widespread with a quarter of those surveyed saying that they had tried it a third of labour voters twice as many as conservatives had tried the drug and being young living in london and having a degree also increased the chances one issue that bucks the trend is hard drugs most take a strong position on heroin that has got stronger over the past seven years now the proportion of people who believe that heroin dealers should always be prosecuted has crept up to NUMBER per cent the views on heroin show that britain is by no means becoming a liberal free for all alison park co director of the study said people are making quite a clear distinction between what they think of as right and wrong on other matters the survey indicates that almost half those questioned think that most of the social security budget goes on unemployment benefits in fact they account for NUMBER per cent that union membership has fallen by a fifth in the past NUMBER years with just under a third of workers in a union and that half those questioned oppose secondary school selection in NUMBER the figure was NUMBER per cent the survey also indicates that NUMBER per cent of men aged between NUMBER and NUMBER live with their parents twice as many as women to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
i have to say i was surprised about jacko dangling that kid of the balcony usually he just tosses them off boomboom d to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
now then i recently read a novel about exactly that sorta thing happening can t remember what is was called tho maybe something like NUMBERst state original message from andrew dennis mailto andrew fidai clara net sent NUMBER december NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to zzzzteana URL subject zzzzteana re fwd ext usa more popular than ever in britain in forteana y uncle_slacky robert chambers b wrote in forteana y andy andy r wrote then the result would be a resounding NUMBER it wouldn t be such a bad idea because at least in terms of trade we have all the disadvantages of a client state combined with all the disadvantages of being a foreign country rob airstrip one anyone not a bad idea at all provided we avoid texas s mistake if we get two senators for each of scotland norn iron wales and england plus our fair share of congressthings we end up with the biggest voting block in the us legislature and for the presidency with a political spectrum whose extreme right can t poke the extreme left of the current us one with a long long stick one sudden lurch to the left by the us political establishment later we own the place byzantium anyone andrew d to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
what the hell is it with these mini remote control cars not only has my mailbox been full of spam advertising them but there s a fairly large stall selling them at paddington station joe mcnally flaneur at large URL what s orange and looks good on hippies fire steve albini currently playing nothing to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
here for your enjoyment is a little something discovered by my daughter kim URL b outgoing mail is certified virus free checked by avg anti virus system http www grisoft com version NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER virus database NUMBER release date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
sean o donnell wrote doesnt answer your question but theres a very simple reason i develop a lot on mysql it runs on windows and linux a lot of clients only have windows servers and last time i checked you can only run postgresql on windows with a lot of fecking around with cygwin give postgres a decent standalone windows build and i reckon you would see a lot of defections this is pertinent URL pádraig irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
joe mcnally writes what the hell is it with these mini remote control cars not only has my mailbox been full of spam advertising them but there s a fairly large stall selling them at paddington station joe mcnally flaneur at large URL any chance you could bring a wire cutters with you the next time you re passing through and cut their net connection hang on mini mini the the ets have seen the mini advert and have decided to get revenge by invading in the form of spambots and small remote cars these are the probes that some of the saucerheads rattle on about probes that are fired into the atmosphere from the mama ships thanks joe there s an idea for a whacky blather issue here to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 URL wednesday NUMBER december NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt bomber targets dutch ikea stores police in the netherlands are searching all NUMBER outlets of the ikea furniture chain in the country after finding bombs in two stores the devices were discovered in amsterdam and sliedrecht near the port city of rotterdam on tuesday evening the sliedrecht bomb exploded at a police station injuring two policeman police have also closed off a motorway section in the central city utrecht near a third ikea store where a suspicious package was found no information about the motive behind the attacks has been released we decided together with the police because of safety reasons that the company s stores in the netherlands would be closed today said ikea spokeswoman helen van trearum we don t want to take any risks we are taking this very seriously she added ikea a swedish based group is one of the world s largest furniture retailers with stores in more than NUMBER countries meanwhile the amsterdam head office of the dutch news agency anp was evacuated on wednesday after police warned that a bomb might have been planted in the building to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
hi all does anyone know how to set up dual keyboards one is actually a stand alone keypad both keyboards have ps NUMBER connections and i want the keypad to be plugged in as the primary input device then if the other keyboard is plugged in that should take over possible any possible hacks thanks carlos irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
carlos luna wrote hi all does anyone know how to set up dual keyboards one is actually a stand alone keypad both keyboards have ps NUMBER connections and i want the keypad to be plugged in as the primary input device then if the other keyboard is plugged in that should take over possible any possible hacks get a keyboard switch i think even viking direct and maplin stock them ________________________________________________________________________ this email has been scanned for all viruses by the messagelabs skyscan service for more information on a proactive anti virus service working around the clock around the globe visit URL ________________________________________________________________________ irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
hi all i have a prob when trying to install linux tried redhat suse on my laptop i can start the install but after about NUMBERmin the whole pc just dies i know it s not a linux prob and here is what i have encountered i had the same problem when installing win on it and eventually sorted it out by disabling the infrared port i m guessing this might be same prob although i m not sure i am very new to linux so it s not that easy for me to work it out i did manage to follow the setup procedure at one stage using images on disks and it cuts out either as it s trying to verify what cd rom i have or just after hence my suspicion of the infrared port again can anyone help thanks gianni this e mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed if you have received this e mail in error please notify the epa postmaster postmaster URL the opinions contained within are personal to the sender and do not necessarily reflect the policy of the environmental protection agency this footnote also confirms that this e mail message has been swept by mimesweeper for the presence of computer viruses irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
tim chapman writes URL wednesday NUMBER december NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER gmt bomber targets dutch ikea stores police in the netherlands are searching all NUMBER outlets of the ikea furniture chain in the country after finding bombs in two stores like everyone else i had become a slave to the ikea nesting instinct if i saw something like clever coffee table sin the shape of a yin and yang i had to have it i would flip through catalogs and wonder what kind of dining set defines me as a person we used to read pornography now it was the horchow collection i had it all even the glass dishes with tiny bubbles and imperfections proof they were crafted by the honest simple hard working indigenous peoples of wherever jack fight club in fight club tyler durden destroys this nesting instinct by bombing jack s apartment hmmmm where you going with this ikea boy to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
 i had the same problem when installing win on it and eventually sorted it out by disabling the infrared port enter your bios and try disabling your infrared port in the bios irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
man killed trying to surf on tube train ananova wednesday december NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER am an investigation has been launched into the death of a passenger who tried to surf on a tube train the passenger a man in his mid NUMBERs died in the incident at chalk farm station on the northern line on monday night witnesses have reported seeing the man trying to hang on to the train as it left the north london station there is also a suggestion that he may have been waving at friends in the train the man died when he struck the wall at the beginning of the tunnel at the end of the platform we think he may have been trying to jump on to the side of the train it s not quite clear what happened said a london underground spokeswoman the incident was being investigated by both lu and british transport police who today described the death as non suspicious to unsubscribe from this group send an email to forteana unsubscribe URL your use of yahoo groups is subject to URL ,0
hi gianni a very good resource for this is URL or URL they have walk through guides for an umber of latops highlighting what to look out for have a look there and let us know if you succeed cheers phil trickett on wed NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER NUMBER gianni ponzi wrote hi all i have a prob when trying to install linux tried redhat suse on my laptop i can start the install but after about NUMBERmin the whole pc just dies i know it s not a linux prob and here is what i have encountered i had the same problem when installing win on it and eventually sorted it out by disabling the infrared port i m guessing this might be same prob although i m not sure i am very new to linux so it s not that easy for me to work it out i did manage to follow the setup procedure at one stage using images on disks and it cuts out either as it s trying to verify what cd rom i have or just after hence my suspicion of the infrared port again can anyone help thanks gianni this e mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed if you have received this e mail in error please notify the epa postmaster postmaster URL the opinions contained within are personal to the sender and do not necessarily reflect the policy of the environmental protection agency this footnote also confirms that this e mail message has been swept by mimesweeper for the presence of computer viruses philip trickett phil techworks ie techworks marine ltd irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
gianni ponzi wrote i have a prob when trying to install linux tried redhat suse on my laptop i can start the install but after about NUMBERmin the whole pc just dies can you disable dma and see if this makes a difference nick irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
neale pickett neale woozle org writes skip montanaro skip pobox com writes yes it also seems to me that web page content filtering proxies you know keeping your kids or employees from visiting xxx websites would be another good application of the technology not to mention ids intrusion detection systems ianas but i have a friend who is and he s suggested to me a few times that it would be very interesting and possibly fruitful to apply bayesian analysis to network security but i think i m going to have to pull out the probab stats book from college before i embark on such a thing i have half a mind to see how it works as a replacement for gnus adaptive scoring a harder problem than spam filtering i guess but it might be interesting cheers m _______________________________________________ spambayes mailing list spambayes URL URL ,0
 hi i think you need to give us a little more detailed information on wed NUMBER dec NUMBER gianni ponzi wrote i have a prob when trying to install linux tried redhat suse on my laptop you get _exactly_ the same problem with suse and redhat is that right what versions of these have you used i can start the install but after about NUMBERmin the whole pc just dies as in freezes reboots do you get any errors i know it s not a linux prob and here is what i have encountered i had the same problem when installing win on it and eventually sorted it out by disabling the infrared port did you disable it in the bios or in windows i m guessing this might be same prob although i m not sure i am very new to linux so it s not that easy for me to work it out i did manage to follow the setup procedure at one stage using images on disks and it cuts out either as it s trying to verify what cd rom i have or just after hence my suspicion of the infrared port again NUMBER what laptop is it what is the processor and how much ram does it have NUMBER you cannot simply boot off the cdrom it must be quite an old laptop then or else cdrom booting is disabled in the bios is the cdrom external or strange in some way gavin irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,0
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dear friend i am mrs sese seko widow of late president mobutu sese seko of zaire now known as democratic republic of congo drc i am moved to write you this letter this was in confidence considering my presentcircumstance and situation i escaped along with my husband and two of our sons george kongolo and basher out of democratic republic of congo drc to abidjan cote d ivoire where my family and i settled while we later moved to settled in morroco where my husband later died of cancer disease however due to this situation we decided to changed most of my husband s billions of dollars deposited in swiss bank and other countries into other forms of money coded for safe purpose because the new head of state of dr mr laurent kabila has made arrangement with the swiss government and other european countries to freeze all my late husband s treasures deposited in some european countries hence my children and i decided laying low in africa to study the situation till when things gets better like now that president kabila is dead and the son taking over joseph kabila one of my late husband s chateaux in southern france was confiscated by the french government and as such i had to change my identity so that my investment will not be traced and confiscated i have deposited the sum eighteen million united state dollars us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with a security company for safekeeping the funds are security coded to prevent them from knowing the content what i want you to do is to indicate your interest that you will assist us by receiving the money on our behalf acknowledge this message so that i can introduce you to my son kongolo who has the out modalities for the claim of the said funds i want you to assist in investing this money but i will not want my identity revealed i will also want to buy properties and stock in multi national companies and to engage in other safe and non speculative investments may i at this point emphasise the high level of confidentiality which this business demands and hope you will not betray the trust and confidence which i repose in you in conclusion if you want to assist us my son shall put you in the picture of the business tell you where the funds are currently being maintained and also discuss other modalities including remunerationfor your services for this reason kindly furnish us your contact information that is your personal telephone and fax number for confidential URL regards mrs m sese seko ,1
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central bank of nigeria foreign remittance dept tinubu square lagos nigeria email smith_j URL NUMBERth of august NUMBER attn president ceo strictly private business proposal i am mr johnson s abu the bills and exchange director at the foreignremittance department of the central bank of nigeria i am writingyou this letter to ask for your support and cooperation to carrying thisbusiness opportunity in my department we discovered abandoned the sumof us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER thirty seven million four hundred thousand unitedstates dollars in an account that belong to one of our foreign customers an american late engr john creek junior an oil merchant with the federal government of nigeria who died along with his entire family of a wifeand two children in kenya airbus aNUMBER NUMBER flight kqNUMBER in novemberNUMBER since we heard of his death we have been expecting his next of kin tocome over and put claims for his money as the heir because we cannotrelease the fund from his account unless someone applies for claims asthe next of kin to the deceased as indicated in our banking guidelines unfortunately neither their family member nor distant relative hasappeared to claim the said fund upon this discovery i and other officialsin my department have agreed to make business with you release the totalamount into your account as the heir of the fund since no one came forit or discovered either maintained account with our bank other wisethe fund will be returned to the bank treasury as unclaimed fund we have agreed that our ratio of sharing will be as stated thus NUMBER for you as foreign partner and NUMBER for us the officials in my department upon the successful completion of this transfer my colleague and i willcome to your country and mind our share it is from our NUMBER we intendto import computer accessories into my country as way of recycling thefund to commence this transaction we require you to immediately indicateyour interest by calling me or sending me a fax immediately on the abovetelefax and enclose your private contact telephone fax full nameand address and your designated banking co ordinates to enable us fileletter of claim to the appropriate department for necessary approvalsbefore the transfer can be made note also this transaction must be kept strictly confidential becauseof its nature nb please remember to give me your phone and fax no mr johnson smith abu irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
urgent private extremely confidential dear with profound interest and in utmost confidence i am soliciting your immediate assistance or co operation as to enable us round up an opportunity within my capability as a result of the death of one of our contractor beneficiary you should not be surprised as to how i got your contact you were highly recommended to me with the believe that you are competent reliable trustworthy and confident i am dr bello ahmed chief auditor special project and foreign contract regularization and disbursement in the office of the auditor general of the federation of federal republic of nigeria we work in hand with the senate committee on foreign contract payment our duty is to ensure that all contractors are paid their contract sum in due time this last payment quarter a total of NUMBER contractors were short listed for payment and about NUMBER of them have been paid remaining about NUMBER five information reaching this office indicates that one among the remaining has been reported dead his name is mr gerrand schwartz from sweden he died in the last air france concorde plane crash meanwhile he finished the execution of his contract december NUMBERth NUMBER but since his death nobody has come forward to put a claim to his contract fund which is about us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER million fifteen million five hundred thousand u s dollars that is why i need your immediate assistance to expedite the transfer of the contract amount with my position as a director in the department of contract regularisation and disbursement i will regularize all the necessary documents and present your company as the bona fide beneficiary of this fund in as much as you respond within NUMBER hours for respect of this important message your unreserved cooperation in this business is just what we require for a successful and hitch free transaction necessary measures to ensure a risk free and fool proof transaction and confidentiality has been taken kindly signify your interest by replying via my personal e mail address above upon receipt of your positive reply we shall discuss on NUMBER basic program for operation NUMBER financial status as to ascertain your capability upon completion of this transaction i have decided to give you NUMBER of the total sum NUMBER of the fund which is our share will be used for investment in your company or in any other company of our choice whileNUMBER has been mapped out to take care of any minor expenses incurred take note that this project will last for only NUMBER working days i expect your response in time within NUMBER hours as time is of great essence in this transaction god bless and kind regards dr bello ahmed ,1
this message is sent to our subscribers only further emails to you by the sender this one will be suspended at no cost to you screening of addresses has been done to the best of our ability unfortunately it is impossible to be NUMBER accurate so if you did not ask for this or wish to be excluded of this list please click hyperlink here this is for adult men only if you are not an adult delete now we are a serious company offering a program that will enhance your sex life and enlarge your penis in a totally natural way we realize many men and their partners are unhappy with their penis size the truth is that size matters not only it affects many men s performance but their self esteem as well penis enlargement is possible just as you can exercise almost any part of your body you can exercise your penis our program is totally proven and NUMBER guaranteed our company has the techniques totally natural techniques no gadgets no pumps no surgery if you want more information please click hyperlink here or send us an email hyperlink here this is not unsolicited you appear in an subscription list if in error please let us know please let those who suffer from erectile dysfunction small penis size and other male ailments read this message disponible tambien en espanolNUMBERjnhpNUMBER NUMBERrlrdNUMBERsymtNUMBER NUMBERwzgrNUMBERrqjmNUMBER NUMBERqaefNUMBERdgalNUMBER,1
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dear friend i am mrs sese seko widow of late president mobutu sese seko of zaire now known as democratic republic of congo drc i am moved to write you this letter this was in confidence considering my presentcircumstance and situation i escaped along with my husband and two of our sons george kongolo and basher out of democratic republic of congo drc to abidjan cote d ivoire where my family and i settled while we later moved to settled in morroco where my husband later died of cancer disease however due to this situation we decided to changed most of my husband s billions of dollars deposited in swiss bank and other countries into other forms of money coded for safe purpose because the new head of state of dr mr laurent kabila has made arrangement with the swiss government and other european countries to freeze all my late husband s treasures deposited in some european countries hence my children and i decided laying low in africa to study the situation till when things gets better like now that president kabila is dead and the son taking over joseph kabila one of my late husband s chateaux in southern france was confiscated by the french government and as such i had to change my identity so that my investment will not be traced and confiscated i have deposited the sum eighteen million united state dollars us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with a security company for safekeeping the funds are security coded to prevent them from knowing the content what i want you to do is to indicate your interest that you will assist us by receiving the money on our behalf acknowledge this message so that i can introduce you to my son kongolo who has the out modalities for the claim of the said funds i want you to assist in investing this money but i will not want my identity revealed i will also want to buy properties and stock in multi national companies and to engage in other safe and non speculative investments may i at this point emphasise the high level of confidentiality which this business demands and hope you will not betray the trust and confidence which i repose in you in conclusion if you want to assist us my son shall put you in the picture of the business tell you where the funds are currently being maintained and also discuss other modalities including remunerationfor your services for this reason kindly furnish us your contact information that is your personal telephone and fax number for confidential URL regards mrs m sese seko ,1
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suppliers of computers printers etc consumables central data supplies NUMBER middleton road banbury oxon oxNUMBER NUMBERqj tel NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER est NUMBER good afternoon please find below the pricing and specification of the laptops which currently have available in stock for immediate despatch ibm thinkpad NUMBERel laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel pentium NUMBER NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER tft display sound speakers no modem no cd rom drive internal NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER ibm thinkpad NUMBERl laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel pentium NUMBER NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER tft display sound speakers no modem no cd rom drive internal NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER ibm thinkpad NUMBER laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel pentium NUMBER NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER tft display usb irda sound speakers internal NUMBERk modem no cd rom drive internal NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER ibm thinkpad NUMBER laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel pentium NUMBER NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER tft display usb irda sound speakers no modem internal cd rom drive internal NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER ibm thinkpad NUMBERx laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel pentium NUMBER NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER tft display usb irda sound speakers internal NUMBERk modem external cd rom drive internal NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER ibm thinkpad NUMBERx laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel pentium NUMBER NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBER NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER tft display usb irda sound speakers internal NUMBERk modem internal cd rom drive internal NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER toshiba NUMBERct laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel pentium NUMBER NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER tft display usb irda sound speakers internal NUMBERk modem docking station including NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive and cd rom drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER ibm tNUMBER laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel pentium NUMBER NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER xga tft display usb irda sound speakers internal NUMBERk modem no cd rom drive internal NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER dell cNUMBER laptop computer stock ref NUMBER intel celeron NUMBERmhz processor NUMBERmb ram NUMBERgb hard drive NUMBER NUMBER xga tft display usb irda sound speakers internal NUMBERk modem internal cd rom drive external NUMBER NUMBER floppy drive NUMBER months warranty NUMBER other specifications are available so if the spec you require is not listed please do not hesitate to call our sales team on NUMBER NUMBER for other models if you do not wish to recieve special offer emails of this kind please reply with remove in the subject and you will be taken off our mailing list all prices are ex vat for and on behalf of central data supplies peter cutress beng hons dis aicheme sales manager e oe irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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this is the bottom line if you can give away cd s for free to people like NUMBER NUMBER in one month and then let me talk to them for you if you can give away free product samples then you can earn NUMBER NUMBER in the next NUMBER NUMBER days think i m kidding we earned precisely NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in our first NUMBER days doing just that and we scanned our checks online for you to see them with your own eyes we ve tweaked things a little because we don t want you to talk to anyone we want to talk to people for you if you are very busy or aren t good at talking to people or don t want to talk to people then let us work full time for you we ve helped others julie p earned NUMBER in one week with us jeff a earned NUMBER in NUMBER weeks with us and we now have an exact business plan for you and can tell you exactly what to expect with where you re starting no guesswork we ve done it and if you do want to seriously evaluate this we would be happy to even fly you to los angeles at our expense to get a closer look no kidding to get your free cd please send the following information name postal mailing address phone number with area code mailto cashflowsNUMBER URL to be removed from future mailings please mailto cashflowsNUMBER URL this email ad is being sent in full compliance with u s senate bill NUMBER title NUMBER section NUMBER which states a statement that further transmissions of unsolicited commercial electronic mail to the recipient by the person who initiates transmission of the message may be stopped at no cost to the recipient by sending a reply to the originating electronic mail address with the word remove in the subject line ,1
as seen on nbc cbs cnn and even oprah the health discovery that actually reverses aging while burning fat without dieting or exercise this proven discovery has even been reported on by the new england journal of medicine forget aging and dieting forever and it s guaranteed click here URL would you like to lose weight while you sleep no dieting no hunger pains no cravings no strenuous exercise change your life forever NUMBER guaranteed NUMBER body fat loss NUMBER improvement NUMBER wrinkle reduction NUMBER improvement URL level NUMBER improvement NUMBER muscle strength NUMBER improvement NUMBER sexual potency NUMBER improvement NUMBER emotional stability NUMBER improvement NUMBER memory NUMBER improvement you are receiving this email as a subscriber to the opt in america mailing list to unsubscribe from future offers just click here mailto affiliateoptout URL ,1
 요즘 뜨는 직종 best NUMBER 금융 it 방송 뷰티 인테리어 NUMBER대 젊은이들이 뽑은 일하고 싶은 분야 로 금융 it 방송 뷰티 패션 인테리어 건축분야가 선정되었다 이들 중에서도 금융분야는 급여가 상대적으로 높고 주NUMBER일제 근무에 앞서있는 외국계 은행 이 it분야는 게임 분야가 방송분야는 요즘 신세대 대학생들이 가장 선호하는 직업인 홈쇼핑의 쇼핑호스트 와 케이블방송의 vj 를 뷰티 패션분야는 美에 대한 관심고조로 인해 피부관리사 또는 스타일리스트 인테리어 건축분야에서는 리모델링 붐에 힘입어 인테리어 쪽이 높은 순위로 꼽혔다 그럼 이처럼 높은 주가를 구가하고 있는 직종에 근무하기 위해서는 어떤 자격요소를 갖추는 것이 좋을까 본격적인 여름이 시작되는 이때 뜨는 직종으로의 확실한 준비를 해보자 금융 NUMBER년 말 imf가 시작될 무렵만 해도 은행 보험 증권계의 한파는 그 어느분야보다도 치열했고 무차별적인 구조조정으로 인해 많은 직장인들이 거리로 내몰리다시피 되었었다 하지만 NUMBER년 현재 카드사의 호황을 시작으로 은행권 증권 보험분야의 경력직 수요가 많아지고 있으며 신입직의 채용 또한 많아지고 있다 올 하반기까지 인력시장은 맑음 상태 금융분야는 자격증이 있으면 있을수록 좋다 금융권에서 유용하게 쓰이는 자격증으로는 투자상담사 금융자산관리사 fp 재무위험관리사 frm 등 특히 증권사에 근무할 이들이라면 투자상담사나 금융자산관리사의 자격증은 기본이 되고 있으니 반드시 취득해두도록 하자 hyperlink 시험일정 보기 it 올해들면서 it 인터넷 업계의 수익구조가 좋아지고 있으며 인터넷 분야는 토종인터넷 기업의 수익성이 외국계보다 훨씬 앞서가고 있는 상황이다 몇 년전부터 게임으로의 관심이 높아지면서 투자 또한 많아지고 있는 상태 하반기 인력시장 맑음 it분야에서는 인력수급을 할 때 사실 자격증 유무보다는 실무경험과 적극성을 더 선호하는 경향이 있다 하지만 직종을 바꾸어보려 한다거나 보다 높은 실무지식을 원한다면 이번 여름에 학원에서의 실무지식 습득은 어떨까 hyperlink 추천it학원 보기 방송 방송분야 중에서도 아나운서 성우 작가 pd 등은 예전부터 꾸준한 인기몰이를 하고 있는 직업이다 하지만 요즘 새롭게 각광받고 있는 직업이 바로 쇼핑호스트 쇼핑호스트에 관해서는 서점에서도 관련서적이 많이 나올정도로 여대생들 사이에선 인기가 높은 직업이다 순간 재치력과 표현력이 있다면 이쪽으로의 도전은 한번쯤 생각해봐도 좋을법 hyperlink 쇼핑호스트란 쇼핑호스트와 함께 유통 분야에서의 꽃 이라 불리우는 md merchandiser hyperlink 유통의 꽃 md의 전문성 뷰티 美 또는 건강에 대한 관심이 높아지면서 뷰티 관련 산업이 활황을 맞고 있다 이에 피부관리사 발관리사 스포츠마사지를 비롯하여 네일아티스트 메이크업아티스트 헤어디자이너 컬러디렉터를 양성하는 학원들도 많이 생겨나고 있는 추세 美에 대한 관심은 여성뿐만 아니라 남성에게도 중요시 되고 있는 분야이며 요즈음은 꽃미남 이라 불리우는 피부가 곱고 예쁘장한 남자들이 인기가 높다 따라서 피부관리사 자격증을 소지하고 있으면 피부과 전문피부마사지센터 등 인력수급이 좋은 상태 hyperlink 추천뷰티학원 보기 인테리어 작년부터 건축리뉴얼 및 재건축 바람이 불면서 인테리어 산업이 각광받고 있다 또한 mbc에서 인기리에 방영되고 있는 러브하우스 를 통해서도 이미 건축리뉴얼이나 인테리어가 주목받고 있는 상태 인테리어 등의 분야에서 일 하려면 반드시 관련 자격증이 필요하다 hyperlink 건축관련 자격증보기 NUMBER 본메일은 정보통신망 이용촉진 및 정보보호 등에 관한 법률 제 NUMBER조에 의거한 광고 메일 입니다 NUMBER 귀하의 메일주소는 웹서핑중 memo 에서 알게 된것이며 e mail 주소 외에 다른 정보는 갖고 있지 않습니다 먼저 허락없이 메일을 발송해서 대단히 죄송합니다 hyperlink 수신 거부 클릭하시어 메일을 보내주시면 다시는 메일을 보내지 않도록 노력하겠습니다 감사합니다 ,1
 dear friend a recent survey by nielsen netratings says that the internet population is rapidly approaching a half a billion people so what does all this mean to you easy money let s assume that every person has only one e mail address that s NUMBER million potential customers and growing in addition e mail is without question the most powerful method of distributinginformation on the face of the earth well i think you get the picture the numbers and potential are just staggering but it gets even better suppose i told you that you could start your own e mail businesstoday and enjoy these benefits all customers pay you in cash you will sell a product which costs nothing to produce your only overhead is your time you have NUMBERs of millions of potential customers you get detailed easy to follow startup instructions and this is just the tip of the iceberg as you read on you ll discover how a seen on national tv program is paying out a half million dollars every NUMBER to NUMBER monthsfrom your home for an investment of only NUMBER us dollars expense one time all thanks to the computer age and the internet before you say bull please read the following this is the letter you have been hearing about on the newslately due to the popularity of this letter on the internet a national weekly news program recently devoted an entireshow to the investigation of this program described below to see if it really can make people money the show also investigated whether or not the program waslegal their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in theprogram and if people can follow the simple instructions they are bound to make some mega bucks with only NUMBER out ofpocket cost due to the recent increase of popularity and respect this program has attained it is currently working better than ever this is what one had to say thanks to this profitable opportunity i was approached manytimes before but each time i passed on it i am so glad ifinally joined just to see what one could expect in returnfor the minimal effort and money required to my asonishment i received total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in NUMBER weeks with money stillcoming in pam hedland fort lee new jersey here is another testimonial this program has been around for a long time but i neverbelieved in it but one day when i received this again in the mail i decided to gamble my NUMBER on it i followed thesimple instructions and walaa NUMBER weeks later the moneystarted to come in first month i only made NUMBER NUMBER but thenext NUMBER months after that i made a total of URL far in the past NUMBER months by re entering the program i have made over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and i am playing it again the key to success in this program is to follow the simplesteps and not change anything more testimonials later but first print this now for your future referenceif you would like to make at least NUMBER NUMBER every NUMBER to NUMBER months easily and comfortably please read the following then read it again and again follow these simple instructions to make your financial dreams come true instructions order all NUMBER reports shown on the list below for each report send NUMBER us cash the name number of the report you are ordering andyour e mail address to the person whose name appearson that list next to the report make sure your return address is on your envelope top left corner in case of any mail problems when you place your order make sure you order each of the NUMBER reports you will need all NUMBER reports so that you can save them on yourcomputer and resell them your total cost NUMBER x NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER within a few days you will receive via e mail eachof the NUMBER reports from these NUMBER different individuals savethem on your computer so they will be accessible for you tosend to the NUMBER NUMBER s of people who will order them from you also make a floppy of these reports and keep it at your deskin case something happens to your computer important do not alter the names of the peoplewho are listed next to each report or their sequence on the list in any way other than what is intructed below in stepsNUMBER through NUMBER or you will lose out on the majority of your profits once you understand the way this works you will also see howit does not work if you change it remember this method has been tested and if you alter it will not work people have tried to put their friends relatives names onall five thinking they could get all the money but it doesnot work this way believe us we have tried to be greedyand then nothing URL do not try to change anything other than what is instructed because if you do it will not work for you remember honesty reaps the reward NUMBER after you have ordered all NUMBER reports take this advertisement and remove the name and address of the person inreport NUMBER this person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER insert your name address in the report NUMBER position please make sure you copy every name addressaccurately take this entire letter with the modified list of names and save it on your computer do not make any otherchanges save this on a disk as well just in case you looseany URL assist you with marketing your business on the internet the NUMBER reports you purchase will provide you with invaluablemarketing information that includes how to send bulk e mailslegally where to find thousand of free classified ads and much much more there are NUMBER primary methods to get this venture going method NUMBER sending bulk e mail legally let s say that you decide to start small just to see howit goes and we ll assume you and those involved send outonly NUMBER NUMBER emails each let s also assume that the mailingreceives only a NUMBER NUMBER response the response could be muchbetter but lets just say it is only NUMBER NUMBER also many peoplewill send out hundreds of thousands of e mails instead ofonly NUMBER NUMBER each continuing with this example you send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails with a NUMBER NUMBER response that is only NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people resonded by sending out NUMBER NUMBER e mails eachfor a total of NUMBER NUMBER out of those NUMBER NUMBER e mails only NUMBER NUMBER responded with orders that s NUMBER people responded andordered report NUMBER those NUMBER people mail out NUMBER NUMBER e mailseach for a total of NUMBER NUMBER e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER orders for report NUMBER thoe NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total ofNUMBER million e mails sent out the NUMBER NUMBER response to that isNUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER NUMBER people send outNUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER million e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders forreport NUMBER that s NUMBER NUMBER orders times NUMBER each NUMBER NUMBER a half a million your total income in this example is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER grand total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER numbers do not lie get a pencil paper and figure out the worst possible responses and no matter how you calculate it you will still make a lot of money remember friend this is assuming only NUMBER people ordering out of NUMBER NUMBER people you mailed dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or NUMBER NUMBER or even NUMBER NUMBER of those people mailed NUMBER NUMBER e mailseach or more there are over NUMBER million people on the internet worldwide and counting believe me many peoplewill do just that and more method NUMBER placing free ads on the internet advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and thereare hundreds of free places to advertise placing a lot offree ads on the internet will easily get a larger response we strongly suggest you start with method NUMBER and add method NUMBER as you go along for every NUMBER you receive all you must do is e mail them the report they ordered that s it always provide same dayservice on all orders this will guarantee that the e mailsthey send out with your name and address on it will beprompt because they can not advertise until they receive thereport order each report by it number name only note always send NUMBER cash us currency for each report checks are not accepted make sure the cash is wrapped inat lease NUMBER sheets of paper before you put it in the envelope on one of those sheets of paper write the number and the nameof the report you are ordering your email address your nameand postal address make sure you affix the proper international postage if ordering a report from outside your country place your order for these reports now report NUMBER the insider s guide to advertising for free on the netorder report NUMBER from k j nickelsp o box NUMBERwaukesha wi NUMBER______________________________________________________report NUMBER the insider s guide to sending bulk e mail on the netorder report NUMBER from k heritageNUMBER w university ave NUMBERgainsville fl NUMBER_______________________________________________________report NUMBER secret to multilevel marketing on the net order report NUMBER from t turnerNUMBER bonner dr corpus christie tx NUMBER______________________________________________________report NUMBER how to become a millionaire utilizing mlm the netorder report NUMBER from mel hahnNUMBER wilmont drive unit gwaukesha wi NUMBER______________________________________________________report NUMBER how to send out one million e mailsorder report NUMBER from j fridNUMBER radisson rd n e ham lake mn NUMBER______________________________________________________there are currently almost NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people online worldwide your success guidlines follow these guidlines to guarantee your success if you do not receive at least NUMBER orders for report NUMBER withinNUMBER weeks continue sending e mails until you do after you have received NUMBER orders NUMBER to NUMBER weeks after thatyou should receive NUMBER orders or more for report NUMBER if youdid not continue advertising or sending e mails until you do once you have received NUMBER or more orders for report NUMBER youcan relax because the system is already working for you and the cash will continue to roll in this is important to remember every time your nameis moved down the list you are placed in front of a different URL can keep track of your progress by watching whichreport people are ordering form you if you want to generate more income send anotherbatch of e mails and start the whole processagain there is no limit to the income you can generatefrom this business ________________________________________________________ following is a note from the originator of this program you have just received information that can give you financialfreedom for the rest of your life with no risk and just alittle bit of effort you can make more money in the nextfew weeks and months than you have ever imagined follow the program exactly as instructed do not changeit in any way it works exceedings well as it is now remember to e mail a copy of this exciting report after youhave put your name and address in report NUMBER and moved othersto NUMBER NUMBER as instructed above one of the peopleyou send this to may send out NUMBER NUMBER or more emails and yourname will be on every one of them remember though the moreyou send out the more potential customers you will URL my friend i have given you the ideas information materials and opportunity to become financially URL is up to you now more testimonials my name is mitchell my wife jody and i live in chicago i am an accountant with a major us corporation and i makepretty good money when i received this program i grumbledto jody about receiving junk mail i made fun of thewhole thing spouting my knowledge of the population andpercentages involved i knew it wouldn t work jodytotally ignored my supposed intelligence and a few days latershe jumped in with both feet i made merciless fun of her and was ready to lay the old i told you so on her whenthe thing didn t work well the laugh was on me withinNUMBER weeks she had received NUMBER responses within the next NUMBERdays she had received a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all cash i was shocked i have joined jody in her hobby mitchell wof chicago illinois not being the gambling type it took me several weeks tomake up my mind to participate in this plan but conservativethat i am i decided that the initial investment was so littlethat there was just no way that i wouldn t get enough ordersto at least get my money back i was surprised when i foundmy medium sized post office box crammed with orders i made NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the first NUMBER weeks the nice thing about thisdeal is that it does not matter where people live theresimply isn t a better investment with a faster return andso big dan sondstrom alberta canada i had received this program before i deleted it but lateri wondered if i should hav given it a try of course ihad no idea who to contact to get another copy so i had towait until i was e mailed again by someone else NUMBER months passed then it luckily came again i did not delete this one i made more than NUMBER NUMBER on my first tryand all the money came within NUMBER weeks susan de suza new york ny it really is a great opportunity to make relatively easymoney with little cost to you i followed the simpleinstructions carefully and within NUMBER days the money startedto come in my first month i made NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and by theend of the third month my total cash count was URL is beautiful thanks to the internet fred dellaca westport new zealand order your reports today and get startedon your road to financial freedom if you have any questions of the legality of this program contact the office of associate director of marketingpractices federal trade commission bureau of consumerprotection washington d c we are not the authors of this program and do not warrant any guarantees as to how much earnings you willachieve this is a one time mailing if you wish to be removed from our list please reply to this e mail with remove in the subject lineand you will be removed immediately ,1
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dear stuart are you tired of searching for love in all the wrong places find love now at URL URL browse through thousands of personals in your area join for free URL search e mail chat use URL to meet cool guys and hot girls go NUMBER on NUMBER or use our private chat rooms click on the link to get started URL find love now you have received this email because you have registerd with emailrewardz or subscribed through one of our marketing partners if you have received this message in error or wish to stop receiving these great offers please click the remove link above to unsubscribe from these mailings please click here URL ,1
 from dallin agm holdings subject have you dreamed of your own home based business motivated individuals about our company agm holdings distributes only legal credit repair information and financial business programs to thousands of individuals all over the united states we are currently seeking self motivated driven people who wish to earn substantial additional income and capitalize on the explosive growth of the internet if you have been seeking this opportunity please keep reading and immediately complete and postal mail or fax the form below to enroll if you are not someone seeking to earn income at your own pace and grow a stable home based business please discard this e mail as we do not want to waste any of your time and apologize for the error this email was intended for the recipient who is seeking an easy money making opportunity from home setting their own pace and work load start small or explode into wealth our home based opportunity is a work at home program for dedicated motivated individuals interested in the opportunity of earning an extra NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER per week every week working directly from the comfort of their own home dorm or apartment our work at home program is an honest opportunity for you to earn a serious extra income without having to sacrifice a lot of your free time incredible home based opportunity program requirements you and you alone must have the desire to want additional income from your own home based business we cannot provide the drive or desire you must already possess the desire in order to easily earn thousand s of dollars a week running your own home based business isn t it about time you got your piece of the unlimited opportunity the internet has to offer all of the work that you will be doing is very simple and can be done from your desk or right at your kitchen table as a home worker you can work full or part time whenever you have the free time mornings afternoons or evenings in addition there is absolutely no experience necessary for you to participate in our work at home based business program our work at home program is perfect for individuals interested in earning a serious extra income to help pay off of their bills that s right if you have car payments rent mortgage payments credit card bills loan payments etc this is an excellent opportunity for you to supplement your existing income and start putting some extra money in your pocket if you are interested in sustaining additional income in your free time the following information will help to further explain the very profitable work at home program that we have to offer you incredible home based opportunity program description our program simply involves the folding and processing of pamphlets you will receive a full NUMBER NUMBER for each and every pamphlet that you process what do we mean by process it s so simple anyone can start now step NUMBER you will neatly fold the provided preprinted single sided NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER by NUMBER inch pamphlets into thirds the pamphlet that you will be processing will be provided for you and will be printed on regular NUMBER lb NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER by NUMBER inch paper step NUMBER you will neatly insert the folded pamphlets into the pre addressed postage paid envelopes these envelopes will be sent directly to your home dorm or apartment with customers names and addresses already printed on the envelopes along with postage already affixed to the envelopes step NUMBER lick and seal these envelopes and then send them out directly to the customers it s that simple you do not pay any postage costs to send out these pamphlets the pre addressed postage paid envelopes will be sent directly to your home dorm or apartment you simply fold the pamphlets insert them in the envelopes and send them right out remember all of the processing work can easily be done at your desk or right at your kitchen table important we do provide you with the actual pamphlet that you will be processing which is a sales pamphlet for our credit repair manual our credit repair manual is a best selling financial product that many people are ordering and using to legally clear up their negative credit and since the demand for our credit repair manual is so overwhelming you will have the opportunity to process as many pamphlets as your schedule can handle you can process NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or even NUMBER NUMBER pamphlets per week week after week month after month year after year for as long as you wish to participate how much money can you earn you will receive a full NUMBER NUMBER for each and every pamphlet that you process if you process NUMBER pamphlets you will receive a full NUMBER NUMBER if you process NUMBER NUMBER pamphlets you will receive a full NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if you process NUMBER NUMBER pamphlets you will receive a full NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER etc what s even better about our program is that you never have to worry about the sale of our credit repair manual in order to receive your NUMBER NUMBER per pamphlet our program does not work on commission you will receive a full NUMBER NUMBER for each and every pamphlet that you process regardless if any sales are made even if you process NUMBER NUMBER pamphlets and no sales are made you will still earn a full NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER it s simple process NUMBER NUMBER pamphlets and receive a full NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for your time and effort processing payments and additional processing materials will continue to arrive at your home dorm or apartment for as long as you wish to continue participating in the program that s right you can always have money coming in week after week because processing payments and additional processing materials will continue to arrive at your home dorm or apartment for as long as you wish to participate honestly there is no guesswork our program has been around for several years and is very successful fact even working slowly you could still earn a much better weekly income than most regular NUMBER NUMBER am to NUMBER NUMBER pm jobs there is no experience required to participate in our program anyone young or old male or female anywhere in the united states can easily earn great money participating in our pamphlet processing program the reason why our program does not require any experience is simple it does not take any previous experience to fold a pamphlet insert it into an envelope and seal an envelope plus our program is especially beneficial for people who need to earn a serious extra income but might not have the spare time for a second job as stated just a few hours per day could possibly earn you well over NUMBER NUMBER per week no joke just imagine how nice it would be if you could earn an extra NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER per week working from your home no more annoying boss no more hectic rush hour commuting no more stressful NUMBER to NUMBER job and no more headaches fact practically every type of person can benefit financially from our pamphlet processing program important legal information the information contained in our credit repair manual is NUMBER legal and legitimate in fact there are hundreds of lawyers and attorneys all over the country using this valuable information and charging people big money to remove negative and incorrect items from their credit files however our credit repair manual explains how people can do the very same thing that these costly attorneys are doing except our credit repair manual shows people how to repair their credit fast easy and for free without having to hire an attorney now is the time there are tens of millions of americans with bad credit that would probably love to receive our credit repair manual therefore if you are serious about devoting a few hours per week towards the opportunity of earning an honest extra income our NUMBER NUMBER pamphlet processing program is perfect for you if you have the desire to participate we will send you a starter s kit containing the instructions necessary for you to begin participating immediately in our pamphlet processing program plus your starters kit also contains your very own copy of credit repair manual that s right you can use our best selling manual to legally clear up and repair any negative credit that you may have this manual is included for becoming a member of our pamphlet processing program therefore to get started immediately all that our company requires is a one time refundable order processing fee of only NUMBER please understand we cannot afford to send out a package of valuable materials to everyone interested in our program and also keep in mind that once you process NUMBER pamphlets you will have already earned your NUMBER back and are left with an extra NUMBER profit we must charge a small processing fee to ensure that only serious individuals intend to participate in our program keep in mind you never have to pay us any other fees and you can participate for as long as you wish this fee simply assures our company that you are indeed serious about our program and the opportunity to make good money working from your home sorry we can not process your order form without the one time processing fee since there are far too many serious individuals willing to pay this small one time fee in order to participate in our high profit work at home program therefore all you have to do is just complete print sign and send in the order form form agm NUMBER NUMBER f please be sure to complete the order form in full legible with your correct shipping address in order to prevent any processing delays in the shipment of your package that s right if you are really looking for a NUMBER legal and legitimate home based income opportunity we can honestly say that you have finally found the right company with an honest and proven money making program p s know a friend who might be interested print a copy for all your friends and family and deduct NUMBER from your order as a bonus deduct NUMBER for each every additional order for the starter interactive cd rom from anybody such as friends and family accompanied with this processing fee for each additional order subtract NUMBER from your order just have them print complete and fax or mail in the order form below make sure that your friends and family put your name on the order form as their referral remember you can pay by credit card money order cash or check by fax for fastest processing remit payments via our check by fax payment processor please make sure the order form is completed with accurate information as incorrect information may greatly delay your order to order using check by fax for fastest delivery please fax the completed form and a legible copy of your personal or business check in the amount of NUMBER NUMBER payable to agm holdings to our toll free fax number NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to fax your order using your credit card fax the completed form and your complete credit card information including your name credit card number and expiration date to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for postal mail orders postal mail check credit card or money orders of us NUMBER to the address below make checks payable to agm holdings agm holdings attn a miller processing department po box NUMBER hastings mi NUMBER print below this line only for more information call toll free NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER starter kit request form form agm NUMBER NUMBER f use NUMBER NUMBER please print clearly provide us with the correct mailing address to ship your starter s kit name _______________________________ address ____________________ apt ____ city _________________________________ state _______________ zip code __________ day phone ________ _________ _________ alt phone ________ _________ _________ birthdate ______ _______ _______ you must be at least NUMBER years of age to participate print email address___________ ______ ____ n bsp please print carefully verify email address__________ ______ _____ n bsp please print carefully signature_________________________________ nbsp required for all orders today s date _____ _____ _____ check orders you must attach a legible copy of your personal or business check complete the section below all numbers of check___________________________ please print all numbers at check bottom from left to right exclude symbols and spaces and be sure to enclose check with fax or postal orders checks must be signed made payable for us NUMBER NUMBER to agm holdings and be drawn on a us bank check number__________ state d l ______________ initial the agreement below you must initial below to take advantage of this incredible money making opportunity your initials constitute acceptance of our agreement and is our way of protecting your interest _________yes i would like the opportunity to earn extra money working right from the comfort of my home or apartment participating in the pamphlet processing program _________yes i understand that my starter s kit will contain the instructions necessary to get me started immediately as a member of the pamphlet processing program _________yes i also understand that my starter s kit will contain my very own copy of the credit repair manual _________yes i understand that i can use the credit repair manual to legally clear up and repair any negative credit that i might have _________yes i understand that this material is provided to me for becoming a member of the pamphlet processing program _________yes i also understand that i will be free to set my own hours and participate in the program either part time or full time _________yes i do understand that a small refundable fee of NUMBER NUMBER s h and this fee is a one time fee only _________yes i will not have to pay agm holdings any other fees ever _________yes important since we do not want to create any unnecessary competition between our existing members we do reserve the right to stop accepting new members if our quota is met therefore if you are serious about this income opportunity we do suggest that you send in you completed form immediately that will guarantee the delivery of your starter kit desired weekly income circle one NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER important NUMBER NUMBER is enclosed NUMBER NUMBER postage handling money orders and checks must be payable to agm holdings important fax orders processed immediately upon receipt attach a copy of your personal and business check or complete the credit card information required above all fax orders placed allow only NUMBER business days delivery time postal mail please allow NUMBER weeks processing time for orders placed with checks orders placed by money order or cash allow NUMBER business days delivery time where did you see our company advertisement newspaper_______ recycler_______ mail______ email_______ other_______ internal use ref code rah NUMBER inc legal information you have been sent this 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owolabi associate falomo ikoyi lagos nigeria your kind attn re request for mutually benefitting endeavour i humbly crave your indulgence in sending you this mail if the contents does not meet with your personal and business ethics i apologize in advance i am barrister kola owolabi attorney at law i represent alhaji ishmaila ibrahim gwarzo s estates alhaji gwarzo was the chief security advicer of the then military leader of this country nigeria in the person of late general sani abacha who died on the NUMBERth of june NUMBER with the advent of a new democratic dispensation in the country under the leadership of gen olusegun obasanjo rtd my client has come under severe persecution due to the sensitive position he held in the last military regime presently he is under house arrest restricted only to the confines of his village the main purpose of this mail is to intimate you of a business proposal that might be of interest to you my client has informed me of the existence of funds deposited with a security company abroad this fund came about as part of security votes that were allocated to my client s portfolio during his tenure as chief security adviser to the then president what happened was that he had part of the funds transferred from the vaults of the central bank of nigeria to this security outfit with the aim of purchasing arms and ammunitions for the personal security outfit of the then president but before the purchase could take place the president died my client has decided to keep this for himself as all his properties has been confisticated by the present regime but due to his incarceration he cannot travel out and effect the change of possession to his benefit i have been mandated by my client to source for a foreign partner that can help him facilitate the change of possession the deposit certificate and the code needed for the execution of this endeavor are in my possession the funds in question is usdNUMBER NUMBERm seventeen million six hundred thousand united states dollars only should this proposition be of interest to you you can reach me through my e mail address so that we can go through the rudiments of this endeavor i remain most obliged barrister kola owolabi jp principal partner owolabi associates __________________________________________________________________ your favorite stores helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas experience the convenience of buying online with shop netscape URL get your own free personal netscape mail account today at URL ,1
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 diversified underwriters services inc impaired risk case of the month july NUMBER male NUMBER non smoker face amount NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER lbs crohn s disease for NUMBER years NUMBER major intestinal surgeries steroid therapy for NUMBER years NUMBER diabetes NUMBER hypertension diversified s answer standard broker s commission NUMBER NUMBER let us turn your clients that have been declined rated or have current health problems into placeable life cases inst a quote tm for impaired risk life quotes call now for an inst a quote on your client and we will get back to you within NUMBER hours NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ext NUMBER or please fill out the form below for more information name e mail phone city state http www d u s com for broker use only not for public dissemination we don t want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to this is professional communication sent to insurance professionals to be removed from this mailing list do not reply to this message instead go here URL URL legal notice URL ,1
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attn president from mrs helina karimu i am an investor a citizen of angola currently on exile in benin republic because of the civil war in my country i wish to invest in a country with political stability reliable dependable infrastructure and security of life and property i was given your contact address by a foriegner who was on a working visit in cotonou she said that your company can assist me on my investment plans if i am lucky that your company may be willing to assist URL may interest you to know that i am having NUMBER NUMBER million us dollars ready for investment this amount was left behind for me and my children by my late husband i am willing to invest in a company with potentials for growth and stability including your company if your bye laws allows for foreign investors or any other good and profitable business that you may suggest i will be very happy if this enquiry receive urgent attention you should mail your acceptance by sending to me your personal and company profile as i will also send to you all required information about myself and the help that i need from you about my investment plans you can also reach me at helinakarimu URL and hk_hk URL hoping for a very successful business relationship with you yours truly mrs helina karimu investor ______________________________________________________ boîte aux lettres caramail URL ,1
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dear sir i am dr james alabi the chairman of contract award and review committee set up by the federal government of nigeria under the new civilian dispensation to award new contracts and review existing ones i came to know of you in my search for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential transaction which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign account there were series of contracts executed by a consortium of multi nationals in the oil industry in favor of n n p c the original values of these contracts were deliberately over invoiced to the sum of us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER twelve million three hundred and twenty thousand united state dollars this amount has now been approved and is now ready to be transferred being that the companies that actually executed these contracts have been fully paid and the projects officially commissioned consequently my colleagues and i are willing to transfer the total amount to your account for subsequent disbursement since we as civil servants are prohibited by the code of conduct bureau civil service law from operating and or opening foreign accounts in our names needless to say the trust reposed on you at this juncture is enormous in return we have agreed to offer you NUMBER of the transferred sum while NUMBER shall be set aside for incidental expenses internal and external between both parties in the course of the transaction you will be mandated to remit the balance to other accounts in due course modalities have been worked out at the highest level of the ministry of finance and the central bank of nigeria for the immediate transfer of the funds within NUMBER working days subject to your satisfaction of the above stated terms our assurance is that your role is risk free to accord this transaction the legality it deserves and for mutual security of the funds the whole approval procedures will officially and legally processed with your name or the name of any company you may nominate as the bonefide beneficiary once more i want you to understand that having put in over twenty five years in the civil service of my country i am averse to having my image and career dented this matter should therefore be treated with utmost secrecy and urgency it deserves please you should signify your intention to assist by sending me a reply to this email to state your position on this transaction if favorable we will take further steps to brief you the full details of this viable transaction i want to assure you that this business proposal is NUMBER risk free as we have done our homework properly i quite believe that you will protect our interest by taking this deal strictly confidential as we are still in government service which we intend to retire from in full honor kindly expedite action as we are behind schedule to enable us include this transfer in the next batch which would constitute the new quarter payments for the NUMBER financial year thank you and god bless dr james alabi ,1
hello by reading the short summary just below you will see how you can learn new skills in communication do a direct marketing program on the internet and at the same time earn NUMBER NUMBER or more to enable you to change your life summary just read this summary follow the actions that it advises and start earning some serious money you will learn new skills in communications and how to market on the internet what a deal your total cash investment is just NUMBER NUMBER step NUMBER if this is the first time you have seen this message and you have not joined in this program before then take out five us NUMBER NUMBER bills total NUMBER investment and mail out NUMBER NUMBER each to the following people to purchase five guides on communications for each guide that you will be ordering and buying write out on a sheet of plain white paper your own name address and your own email address and the number and name of the guide that you are buying then fold the paper put the NUMBER NUMBER bill inside the sheet of paper insert the paper and NUMBER NUMBER bill into an envelope address the envelope with the name and address of the person whose name is shown under each guide below and mail the envelope by first class or air mail be sure to put enough postage stamps on the envelopes no need to send by registered mail list of five names ________________________________________________ guide NUMBER how to be a more effective public speaker order guide NUMBER for us NUMBER NUMBER cash from in addition to guide NUMBER you will receive a valuable marketing guide a million bucks from the internet free of charge derrick nguyen NUMBER whitmore st el monte ca NUMBER usa ________________________________________________ guide NUMBER how to give a business presentation order guide NUMBER for us NUMBER NUMBER cash from tim fai gpo box NUMBER macau via hong kong ________________________________________________ guide NUMBER how to write more effectively order guide NUMBER for us NUMBER NUMBER cash from luis pastor apartado NUMBER NUMBER bilbao spain ________________________________________________ guide NUMBER what to do at a social function order guide NUMBER for us NUMBER NUMBER cash from chester waldvogel NUMBER chestnut way berlin md NUMBER usa ________________________________________________ guide NUMBER how to sharpen your mind order guide NUMBER for us NUMBER NUMBER cash from j siden krondikesvagen NUMBER a NUMBER ostersund sweden ________________________________________________ end of list of five names step NUMBER these guides will be emailed to you save these guides on your computer s hard disk as other people will be ordering these guides from you paying you for them and you will need to email the guides to the new buyers step NUMBER from the list of names above delete the name and address of the person shown under guide NUMBER and replace that slot with the name and address of the person from guide NUMBER s slot be sure to copy the name and address exactly as shown check the address again step NUMBER delete name and address under guide NUMBER and replace with the name and address from guide NUMBER s slot step NUMBER delete name and address under guide NUMBER and replace with the name and address from guide NUMBER s slot step NUMBER delete name and address under guide NUMBER and replace with the name and address from guide NUMBER s slot step NUMBER delete name and address under guide NUMBER and replace with your own name and address this step is how your own name and address is entered into the list of names to receive orders for the guides eventually your own name will go down the list of names until you have reached guide NUMBER and then be dropped from the list the key point is that the number of people ordering guides from you will grow larger the lower down the list your name goes step NUMBER once you have completed this new list send out this new email which shows your name under guide NUMBER to as many email addresses as possible as many as NUMBER NUMBER emails or even more the greater the number of mailings you make potentially the greater the number of people who will order the guide NUMBER from you these people will then make new emails to send out to their addresses with the email showing your name under guide NUMBER and so on this is all you need to do if you wish to read the rest of this email message then do so if not just do the NUMBER steps shown above remember the key point is to send out as many emails as possible in step NUMBER and to encourage and help those who purchase the guides from you to send out emails of their own do not change anything other than what is instructed because if you do it will not work for you your immediate reaction might be why not replace all the names on the list with the names of your spouse kids relatives and friends that might seem to you like a clever move because new buyers will be sending their money to these people but that move is the exact opposite of what is to your benefit what will benefit you most is having people who will send out emails seek new buyers and provide assistance to new buyers if the people you slip into that list aren t going to be sending new emails you re only hurting yourself by effectively closing down the program with your name on top of the list of the names that you have inserted there wouldn t be new buyers coming in so your sly maneuver will gain you exactly zero furthermore if you have done the work and your name has worked its way to further down the list by then you deserve the rewards and earnings from that effort and it would be unethical for anyone to remove your name for whatever reason don t do it to others remember honesty reaps the reward you may have a concern that after sending the total NUMBER to the five people on the list that one of the people will just take your money and not send you the guide well rest assured as we said above it s to our benefit to have you as a satisfied buyer who will actively send out emails to find new buyers so don t think the people on the list will try to cheat you or to stiff you for NUMBER NUMBER the people on the list would rather have you working hard because your effort will benefit them as well as you later on when other buyers send you the order to buy the guides fulfill your end of the deal by sending the ordered guide to the buyer don t cheat provide efficient and honest service and we will all benefit end of summary rest of message with easy to use email tools and opt in email success in this business is now well within the capabilities of ordinary people who may not have done any internet marketing before and the earnings potential is staggering read this email to the end follow what it says and you will not worry whether a recession is coming or not or whether or not you can afford to buy that new car or home that you have been looking for yes i know what you are thinking i never responded to one of these before either one day though something made me feel you use NUMBER going to a movie for NUMBER hours with your spouse friend or child plus a simple meat at a restaurant why the heck not no matter where you believe those feelings came from i thank every day that feeling came over me i cannot imagine where i would be or what i would be doing had i not read on it works and when you read the guides you ll learn how to become a more effective communicator what can be better a way to improve your self image and confidence and at the same time have the potential to recover your investment and make some good money making over half a million dollars every NUMBER to NUMBER months from your home if you work on this program you will learn a lot about direct marketing on the internet if you believe direct marketing via the internet is the way sales and marketing will be done in the future then the experience you will gain here could be a real boost in your work career possibly even providing a new career for you print this message for future reference if you want to make serious money read this message until you understand it completely and feel confident to follow through on what it advises follow the simple instruction above and your financial dreams can come true remember this method has been tested and if you alter it it will not work this is a legitimate business you are offering a product for sale to a buyer treat it as such and you can see money coming to you in a reasonable period of time depending on the collective efforts of yourself and the others on the list of five take this entire email with the modified list of names and save it on your computer do not make any other changes there are NUMBER methods to get this venture going method NUMBER by sending bulk email legally let s say that you start small to see how it goes and that you and those involved send out only NUMBER NUMBER emails each let s also assume that the mailing receives only a NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of NUMBER response the response could be much better but let s just say it is only NUMBER NUMBER also many people will send out hundreds of thousands of emails instead of only NUMBER NUMBER each out of your NUMBER NUMBER emails and a NUMBER NUMBER response that is only NUMBER orders for guide NUMBER those NUMBER people who responded also send out NUMBER NUMBER emails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER out of those NUMBER NUMBER emails only NUMBER NUMBER responded with orders that s NUMBER people who responded and ordered guide NUMBER those NUMBER people mail out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER emails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER orders for guide NUMBER those NUMBER people send NUMBER NUMBER emails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER emails sent out the NUMBER NUMBER response is NUMBER orders for guide NUMBER those NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER emails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER emails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders for guide NUMBER or NUMBER NUMBER at NUMBER per guide this may seem a small amount to you but remember we used a very low response rate with a small number of emails being sent out see what happens if you can get the response rate up just slightly if response rate is NUMBER NUMBER income from guides NUMBER NUMBER is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER as above if response rate is NUMBER NUMBER income from guides NUMBER NUMBER is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER if response rate is NUMBER NUMBER income from guides NUMBER NUMBER is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or half or even one NUMBERth of those people mailed NUMBER NUMBER emails each or more from the example above you can see the power of leveraging that is how much greater is the amount of money from a small increase in the response rate there are over NUMBER million people on the internet worldwide and counting with thousands more coming online every day method NUMBER placing free ads on the internet advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are many free places to advertise placing a lot of free ads on the internet will get a response we strongly suggest you start with method NUMBER and add method NUMBER as you go along for every NUMBER you receive all you must do is email the guide the buyer ordered always provide same day service the people you buy these guides from will assist and advise you how to get the large number of email addresses that you need to send the new email containing your name and address in return when others buy the guides from you you also should help those buyers to resell the guides to their email addresses this will benefit you because your name would be further down the list and their new buyers will buy from you this is no different than customer service in the retail or the bricks and mortars business available guides the reason for the cash is not because this is illegal or somehow wrong it is simply about time time for checks or credit cards to be cleared or approved etc concealing it is simply so no one can see there is money in the envelope and steal it before it gets to you order each guide by its number name only always send a single NUMBER bill u s currency for each guide checks not accepted make sure the cash is hidden by wrapping it in at least NUMBER sheets of paper on one of those sheets of paper write the number the name of the guide you are ordering your email address and your name and postal address be sure to address the envelope correctly and put the proper amount of stamps to mail the envelope place your order for these guides now from the name and address list shown at the beginning of this email ________________________________________________ your success guidelines if you do not receive at least NUMBER orders for guide NUMBER within NUMBER weeks continue sending emails until you do two to three weeks after you receive NUMBER orders you should receive NUMBER orders or more for guide NUMBER if not continue advertising or sending emails until you do once you have received NUMBER or more orders for guide NUMBER you can see the program is working and cash should continue coming in this is important to remember continue to assist new buyers with advice and instruction on how to send out more emails you can keep track of progress by noting which guides people are ordering from you if you want to generate more income send another batch of emails and start the whole process again there is no limit to the income you can generate a note from the originator of this program you have just received information that can give you financial freedom to really change your life but i don t wish to kid you this requires a bit of effort you can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined follow the program exactly as instructed remember to email the revised copy of this email after you have put your name and address in guide NUMBER and moved others to NUMBER NUMBER slots as instructed above one of the people you send this to may send out NUMBER NUMBER or more emails and your name will be on every one of them remember the more you send out the more potential buyers you will reach it is up to you order the guides now and embark on the road to financial security upon your purchase of any guide NUMBER through NUMBER the copyright owner assigns to you two important rights NUMBER the right to resell and to distribute via the internet the guide that you have purchased and NUMBER the right to assign to your buyer of the guide the further right for your buyer to resell that guide included in your purchase of guide NUMBER is a valuable report on how to market on the internet it s free of charge and will give you the tools you need the right to print any of the material contained in the guides is reserved exclusively for the copyright owner your right to resell and to distribute copies of the guide applies only to the internet and or world wide web via electronic distribution you may not print out the guides to sell or distribute in any way you may print a copy of the guides for your own personal use to enhance your communication skills this message is not intended for residents of localities that have legal ordinances prohibiting engaging in such programs screening of addresses has been done to the best of our ability this message is only being sent once to recipients and thus is no need to remove your email address from our mailing list you will not be receiving further emails with this message iangxsifpkvgobwlxwhvvxfs ,1
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 from the desk of dr samuel eboka tel no your intl access code NUMBER fax no your intl access code NUMBER email samuelebokaNUMBER URL lagos nigeria dear sir important after due deliberation with my colleagues we have decided to forward to you this business proposal we want a reliable person who could assist us in the transfer the sum of twenty million five hundred thousand united states dollars NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER via international bank draft cashable in any first world countries this fund resulted from an over invoiced bill from contracts awarded by us under the budget allocation to our ministry this bill has been approved for payment by the other concerned ministries the contract has since been executed commissioned and the contractor was paid the actual cost of the contract we are left with the balance us NUMBER NUMBERm as part of the over invoiced amount which we have deliberated over estimated for our own use but under our protocol division we as civil servants are forbidden to operate or own foreign accounts this is why we are soliciting your assistance in this manner and regard as you may want to know and to make you less curious i got your address from adverts in the business directory i am the chief accountant internal auditor of the contract award committee cac of the nigerian national petroleum corporation nnpc this transaction is very much free from all sorts of risks and trouble from my government we the n n p c officials involved in this deal have put in many years in service to this ministry we have been exercising patience for this opportunity for so long and to most of us this is a life time opportunity we cannot afford to miss we have agreed to compensate you duly if agreement is reached by both of us and i and one of my colleagues involved in this deal will come to your country to arrange for our share upon the confirmation from you that the certified international bank draft has been approved and raised in your favor consequent upon your acceptance of this proposal kindly confirm your interest by telephone to me through my direct tel no NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please call direct do not add my country NUMBER and city NUMBER codes your indication by revert telephone to me of your sincere and serious interest will enable me fax you or brief you of the procedures for this transaction if my line is busy please keep trying you will surely get through note in the event of your inability to handle this transaction please inform us so that we can look for another reliable person who can assist in this respect it might surprise you why we choose you and trusted you for this transaction yes we believe that good friends can be discovered and business like this can not be realized without mutual trust this is why we have decided to trust you for this transaction be further informed that everyone s interest and security had been considered before you were contacted so be rest assured and feel free to go into this transaction with us but let honesty and trust be our watchword throughout this transaction and your prompt reply will be highly appreciated thank you and god bless best regards dr samuel eboka note that you can use this alternative email addresses samuelebokaNUMBER URL sameboka URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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 otc newsletter discover tomorrow s winners for immediate release cal bay stock symbol cbyi watch for analyst strong buy recommendations and several advisory newsletters picking cbyi cbyi has filed to be traded on the otcbb share prices historically increase when companies get listed on this larger trading exchange cbyi is trading around NUMBER cents and should skyrocket to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER a share in the near future put cbyi on your watch list acquire a position today reasons to invest in cbyi a profitable company and is on track to beat all earnings estimates one of the fastest growing distributors in environmental safety equipment instruments excellent management team several exclusive contracts impressive client list including the u s air force anheuser busch chevron refining and mitsubishi heavy industries ge energy environmental research rapidly growing industry industry revenues exceed NUMBER million estimates indicate that there could be as much as NUMBER billion from smell technology by the end of NUMBER congratulations our last recommendation to buy orbt at NUMBER NUMBER rallied and is holding steady at NUMBER NUMBER congratulations to all our subscribers that took advantage of this recommendation all removes honored please allow NUMBER days to be removed and send all addresses to hyperlink goneforgood URL certain statements contained in this news release may be forward looking statements within the meaning of the private securities litigation reform act of NUMBER these statements may be identified by such terms as expect believe may will and intend or similar terms we are not a registered investment advisor or a broker dealer this is not an offer to buy or sell securities no recommendation that the securities of the companies profiled should be purchased sold or held by individuals or entities that learn of the profiled companies we were paid NUMBER NUMBER in cash by a third party to publish this report investing in companies profiled is high risk and use of this information is for reading purposes only if anyone decides to act as an investor then it will be that investor s sole risk investors are advised not to invest without the proper advisement from an attorney or a registered financial broker do not rely solely on the information presented do additional independent research to form your own opinion and decision regarding investing in the profiled companies be advised that the purchase of such high risk securities may result in the loss of your entire investment not intended for recipients or residents of ca co ct de id il ia la mo nv nc ok oh pa ri tn va wa wv wi void where prohibited the owners of this publication may already own free trading shares in cbyi and may immediately sell all or a portion of these shares into the open market at or about the time this report is published factual statements are made as of the date stated and are subject to change without notice copyright c NUMBER otc ,1
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all our mailings are sent complying to the proposed h r NUMBER unsolicited commercial electronic mail act of NUMBER please see the bottom of this message for further information and removal instructions parents of NUMBER year old find NUMBER NUMBER cash hidden in his closet does this headline look familiar of course it does you most likely have just seen this story recently featured on a major nightly news program usa and reported elsewhere in the world including my neck of the woods new zealand his mother was cleaning and putting laundry away when she came across a large brown paper bag that was suspiciously buried beneath some clothes and a skateboard in the back of her NUMBER year old sons closet nothing could have prepared her for the shock she got when she opened the bag and found it was full of cash five dollar bills twenties fifties and hundreds all neatly rubber banded in labelled piles my first thought was that he had robbed a bank says the NUMBER year old woman there was over NUMBER NUMBER dollars in that bag that s more than my husband earns in a year the woman immediately called her husband at the car dealership where he worked to tell him what she had discovered he came home right away and they drove together to the boys school and picked him up little did they suspect that where the money came from was more shocking than actually finding it in the closet as it turns out the boy had been sending out via e mail a type of report to e mail addresses that he obtained off the internet everyday after school for the past NUMBER months he had been doing this right on his computer in his bedroom i just got the e mail one day and i figured what the heck i put my name on it like the instructions said and i started sending it out says the clever NUMBER year old the e mail letter listed NUMBER addresses and contained instructions to send one NUMBER dollar bill to each person on the list then delete the address at the top and move the others addresses down and finally to add your name to the top of the list the letter goes on to state that you would receive several thousand dollars in five dollar bills within NUMBER weeks if you sent out the letter with your name at the top of the NUMBER address list i get junk e mail all the time and really did not think it was going to work the boy continues within the first few days of sending out the e mail the post office box that his parents had gotten him for his video game magazine subscriptions began to fill up with not magazines but envelopes containing NUMBER bills about a week later i rode my bike down to the post office and my box had NUMBER magazine and about NUMBER envelops stuffed in it there was also a yellow slip that said i had to go up to the post office counter i thought i was in trouble or something laughs he goes on i went up to the counter and they had a whole box of more mail for me i had to ride back home and empty out my backpack because i could not carry it all over the next few weeks the boy continued sending out the e mail the money just kept coming in and i just kept sorting it and stashing it in the closet barely had time for my homework he had also been riding his bike to several of the banks in his area and exchanging the NUMBER bills for twenties fifties and hundreds i didn t want the banks to get suspicious so i kept riding to different banks with like five thousand at a time in my backpack i would usually tell the lady at the bank counter that my dad had sent me in to exchange the money and he was outside waiting for URL time the lady gave me a really strange look and told me that she would not be able to do it for me and my dad would have to come in and do it but i just rode to the next bank down the street laughs surprisingly the boy did not have any reason to be afraid the reporting news team examined and investigated the so called chain letter the boy was sending out and found that it was not a chain letter at URL fact it was completely legal according to us postal and lottery laws title NUMBER section NUMBER and NUMBER or title NUMBER section NUMBER in the us code also in the code of federal regulations volume NUMBER sections NUMBER and NUMBER which state a product or service must be exchanged for money received every five dollar bill that he received contained a little note that read please send me report number xyx this simple note made the letter legal because he was exchanging a service a report on how to for a five dollar fee this is the end of the media release if you would like to understand how the system works and get your NUMBER NUMBER please continue reading what appears below is what the NUMBER year old was sending out on the net you can use it too just follow the simple instructions be financially free like others within a year before you say bull please read the following this is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately due to the popularity of this letter on the internet a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below to see if it really can make people money the show also investigated whether or not the program was legal their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions they are bound to make some megabucks with only NUMBER out of pocket cost due to the recent increase of popularity respect this program has attained it is currently working better than ever note follow the directons below i had best results the second time when i hired a bulk email service in addition to following the reports instructions in order for all of us to be successful many many emails must be sent so that the returns are many i have been extremely successful using the following company they send out the offers and all i do is accept money for reports then i send back to the people as soon as possible this is what one had to say thanks to this profitable opportunity i was approached many times before but each time i passed on it i am so glad i finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required to my astonishment i received total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in NUMBER weeks with money still coming in pam hedland fort lee new jersey here is another testimonial this program has been around for a long time but i never believed in it but one day when i received this again in the mail i decided to gamble my NUMBER on it i followed the simple instructions and walaa NUMBER weeks later the money started to come in first month i only made NUMBER NUMBER but the next NUMBER months after that i made a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so far in the past NUMBER months by re entering the program i have made over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and i am playing it again the key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and not change anything more testimonials later but first print this now for your future reference order all NUMBER reports shown on the list below for each report send NUMBER cash the name number of the report you are ordering and your e mail address to the person whose name appears on that list next to the report make sure your return address is on your envelope top left corner in case of any mail problems when you place your order make sure you order each of the NUMBER reports you will need all NUMBER reports so that you can save them on your computer within a few days you will receive vie e mail each of the NUMBER reports from these NUMBER different individuals save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the NUMBER NUMBER s of people who will order them from you also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happens to your computer important do not alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report or their sequence on the list in any way other than what is instructed below in step NUMBER through NUMBER or you will loose out on majority of your profits once you understand the way this works you will also see how it does not work if you change it remember this method has been tested and if you alter it will not work people have tried to put their friends relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money but it does not work this way believe us we all have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened so do not try to change anything other than what is instructed because if you do it will not work for you remember honesty reaps the reward NUMBER after you have ordered all NUMBER reports take this advertisement and remove the name address of the person in report NUMBER this person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER insert your name address in the report NUMBER position please make sure you copy every name address accurately take this entire letter with the modified list of names and save it on your computer do not make any other changes save this on a disk as well just in case if you loose any data to assist you with marketing your business on the internet the NUMBER reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e mails legally where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more there are NUMBER primary methods to get this venture going method NUMBER by sending bulk e mail legally let s say that you decide to start small just to see how it goes and we will assume you and those involved send out only NUMBER NUMBERe mails each let s also assume that the mailing receive only a NUMBER NUMBER response the response could be much better but lets just say it is only NUMBER NUMBER also many people will send out hundreds of thousands e mails instead of only NUMBER NUMBER each continuing with this example you send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails with a NUMBER NUMBER response that is only NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people responded by sending out NUMBER NUMBER e mail each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER out of those NUMBER NUMBER e mails only NUMBER NUMBER responded with orders that equals NUMBER people responded and ordered report NUMBER those NUMBER people mail out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER million e mails sent out the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER million e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER that s NUMBER NUMBER orders times NUMBER each NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER half million your total income in this example is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER grand total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER numbers do not lie get a pencil paper and figure out the worst possible responses and no matter how you calculate it you will still make a lot of money remember friend this is assuming only NUMBER people ordering out of NUMBER NUMBER you mailed to dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or half or even one NUMBERth of those people mailed NUMBER NUMBERe mails each or more there are over NUMBER million people on the internet worldwide and counting believe me many people will do just that and more method NUMBER by placing free ads on the internet advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of free places to advertise placing a lot of free ads on the internet will easily get a larger response we strongly suggest you start with method NUMBER and add method NUMBER as you go along for every NUMBER you receive all you must do is e mail them the report they ordered that s it always provide same day service on all orders this will guarantee that the e mail they send out with your name and address on it will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report order each report by its number name only notes always send NUMBER cash u s currency for each report checks not accepted make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least NUMBER sheets of paper or aluminum foil on one of those sheets of paper write the number the name of the report you are ordering your e mail address and your name and postal address place your order for these reports now report NUMBER the insider s guide to advertising for free on the net order report NUMBER from r r po box NUMBER chicago il NUMBER __________________________________________________________ report NUMBER the insider s guide to sending bulk e mail on the net order report NUMBER from gm boland NUMBER jonestown rd suite NUMBER winston salem nc NUMBER __________________________________________________________ report NUMBER secret to multilevel marketing on the net order report NUMBER from r chernick po box NUMBER c s florida NUMBER __________________________________________________________ report NUMBER how to become a millionaire utilizing mlm the net order report NUMBER from m eiseman po box NUMBER sunrise florida NUMBER NUMBER ____________________________________________________ report NUMBER how to send out NUMBERne million emails for free order report NUMBER from l samon po box NUMBER castletown isle of man im NUMBER NUMBERxp your success guidelines follow these guidelines to guarantee your success if you do not receive at least NUMBER orders for report NUMBER within NUMBER weeks continue sending e mails until you do orders NUMBER to NUMBER weeks after that you should receive NUMBER orders or more for report NUMBER if you did not continue advertising or sending e mails until you do once you have received NUMBER or more orders for report NUMBER you can relax because the system is already working for you and the cash will continue to roll in this is important to remember every time your name is moved down on the list you are placed in front of a different report you can keep track of your progress by watching which report people are ordering from you if you want to generate more income send another batch of e mails and start the whole process again there is no limit to the income you can generate from this business following is a note from the originator of this program you have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life with no risk and just a little bit of effort you can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined follow the program exactly as instructed do not change it in any way it works exceedingly well as it is now remember to e mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in report NUMBER and moved others to NUMBER thru NUMBER as instructed above one of the people you send this to may send out NUMBER NUMBER or more e mails and your name will be on every one of them remember though the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach so my friend i have given you the ideas information materials and opportunity to become financially independent it is up to you now more testimonials my name is mitchell my wife jody and i live in chicago i am an accountant with a major u s corporation and i make pretty good money when i received this program i grumbled to jody about receiving junk mail i made fun of the whole thing spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved i knew it wouldn t work jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet i made merciless fun of her and was ready to lay the old i told you so on her when the thing didn t work well the laugh was on me within NUMBER weeks she had received NUMBER responses within the next NUMBER days she had received total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all cash i was shocked i have joined jody in her hobby mitchell wolf chicago illinois not being the gambling type it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan but conservative that i am i decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that i wouldn t get enough orders to at least get my money back i was surprised when i found my medium size post office box crammed with orders i made NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the first NUMBER weeks the nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live there simply isn t a better investment with a faster return and so big dan sondstrom alberta canada i had received this program before i deleted it but later i wondered if i should have given it a try of course i had no idea who to contact to get another copy so i had to wait until i was e mailed again by someone else NUMBER months passed then it luckily came again i did not delete this one i made more than NUMBER NUMBER on my first try and all the money came within NUMBER weeks susan de suza new york n y if you have any questions of the legality of this program contact the office of associate director for marketing practices federal trade commission bureau of consumer protection washington d c this email was sent to you via saf e mail systems your email address was automatically inserted into the to and from addresses to eliminate undeliverables which waste bandwidth and cause internet congestion your email or webserver is not being used for the sending of this mail no one else is receiving emails from your address you may utilize the removal link below if you do not wish to receive this mailing URL ,1
 take control of your computer with this top of the line software norton systemworks NUMBER software suite professional edition includes six yes NUMBER feature packed utilitiesall for NUMBER special low price of only NUMBER NUMBER this software will protect your computer from unwanted and hazardous viruses help secure your private valuable information allow you to transfer files and send e mails safely backup your all your data quick and easily improve your pc s performance w superior integral diagnostics you ll never have to take your pc to the repair shop again NUMBER feature packed utilities NUMBER great price a NUMBER combined retail value yours for only NUMBER NUMBER price includes free shipping and for a limited time buy any NUMBER of our products get NUMBER free don t fall prey to destructive viruses or hackers protect your computer and your valuable information and hyperlink click here to order yours now your email address was obtained from an opt in list opt in uefas united email federation against spam approved list purchase code NUMBER if you wish to be unsubscribed from this list please hyperlink click here if you have previously unsubscribed and are still receiving this message you may email our hyperlink spam abuse control center we do not condone spam in any shape or form thank you kindly for your cooperation ,1
 do you want to teach and grow rich if you are a motivated and qualified communicator i will personally train you to do NUMBER NUMBER minutes presentations per day to qualify prospects that i can provide to you we will demonstrate to you that you can make NUMBER a day part time using this system or if you have NUMBER hours per week as in my case you can make in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per week as i am currently generating verifiable by the way plus i will introduce you to my mentor who makes well in excess of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER annually many are called few are chosen this opportunity will be limited to one qualified individual per state make the call and call the NUMBER hour pre recorded message number below we will take as much or as little time as you need to see if this program is right for you NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please do not make this call unless you are genuinely money motivated and qualified i need people who already have people skills in place and have either made large amounts of money in the past or are ready to generate large amounts of money in the future looking forward to your call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________________________ to be taken out of this database bennoNUMBER URL NUMBERrmxaNUMBER NUMBERlwkkNUMBERnyqrNUMBER NUMBERbtqiNUMBERawllNUMBER NUMBERbrcxNUMBERnxuvNUMBER NUMBERlNUMBER NUMBERwctgNUMBER NUMBERpbkgNUMBERzionNUMBER NUMBERxctaNUMBERngxlNUMBER NUMBERshbyNUMBERmhhnNUMBER NUMBERhlNUMBER ,1
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here s the hottest thing in dvds now you can make a personal backup copy of a dvd right onto cd r our hot new software easily takes you through the steps to make a copy of your own dvds now included for free copy playstation music mpNUMBERs and all software step by step interactive instructions all software tools included on cd no dvd burner required free live technical support NUMBER day risk free trial available free dvd movie of your choice limited time offer we have all the software you need to copy your own dvd movies URL this email has been screened and filtered by our in house opt out system in compliance with state laws if you wish to opt out from this mailing as well as the lists of thousands of other email providers please visit URL NUMBERzkzmNUMBER NUMBERblanNUMBERzxadNUMBER NUMBERbmntNUMBERticoNUMBER NUMBERrikgNUMBERlNUMBER,1
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 otc newsletter discover tomorrow s winners for immediate release cal bay stock symbol cbyi watch for analyst strong buy recommendations and several advisory newsletters picking cbyi cbyi has filed to be traded on the otcbb share prices historically increase when companies get listed on this larger trading exchange cbyi is trading around NUMBER cents and should skyrocket to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER a share in the near future put cbyi on your watch list acquire a position today reasons to invest in cbyi a profitable company and is on track to beat all earnings estimates one of the fastest growing distributors in environmental safety equipment instruments excellent management team several exclusive contracts impressive client list including the u s air force anheuser busch chevron refining and mitsubishi heavy industries ge energy environmental research rapidly growing industry industry revenues exceed NUMBER million estimates indicate that there could be as much as NUMBER billion from smell technology by the end of NUMBER congratulations our last recommendation to buy orbt at NUMBER NUMBER rallied and is holding steady at NUMBER NUMBER congratulations to all our subscribers that took advantage of this recommendation all removes honored please allow NUMBER days to be removed and send all addresses to hyperlink goneforgood URL certain statements contained in this news release may be forward looking statements within the meaning of the private securities litigation reform act of NUMBER these statements may be identified by such terms as expect believe may will and intend or similar terms we are not a registered investment advisor or a broker dealer this is not an offer to buy or sell securities no recommendation that the securities of the companies profiled should be purchased sold or held by individuals or entities that learn of the profiled companies we were paid NUMBER NUMBER in cash by a third party to publish this report investing in companies profiled is high risk and use of this information is for reading purposes only if anyone decides to act as an investor then it will be that investor s sole risk investors are advised not to invest without the proper advisement from an attorney or a registered financial broker do not rely solely on the information presented do additional independent research to form your own opinion and decision regarding investing in the profiled companies be advised that the purchase of such high risk securities may result in the loss of your entire investment not intended for recipients or residents of ca co ct de id il ia la mo nv nc ok oh pa ri tn va wa wv wi void where prohibited the owners of this publication may already own free trading shares in cbyi and may immediately sell all or a portion of these shares into the open market at or about the time this report is published factual statements are made as of the date stated and are subject to change without notice copyright c NUMBER otc ,1
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hi i visited URL and noticed that you re not listed on some search engines i think we can offer you a service which can help you increase traffic and the number of visitors to your website i would like to introduce you to URL we offer a unique technology that will submit your website to over NUMBER NUMBER search engines and directories every month you ll be surprised by the low cost and by how effective this website promotion method can be to find out more about trafficmagnet and the cost for submitting your website to over NUMBER NUMBER search engines and directories visit us at URL i would love to hear from you best regards sarah williams sales and marketing e mail sarah_williams URL URL this email was sent to zzzz latestdodgydotcomstock URL i understand that you may not wish to receive information from me by email to be removed from this and other offers simply go to the link below URL ,1
 NUMBER NUMBER homeowners can t be wrong agent opportunities now available the mortgage savings program tm great new product for your clients NUMBER year old company leader in industry no refinancing fees no payroll deductions no credit report no paperwork to do no group requirements generate free leads perpetual commissions no competition your current mortgage dollar amount of your mortgage NUMBER NUMBER percentage rate of your mortgage NUMBER NUMBER your current monthly payment NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER total interest paid NUMBER NUMBER paid off in NUMBER NUMBER years with the reduce my mortgage plan your bi weekly payment NUMBER NUMBER total interest paid NUMBER NUMBER total interest savings NUMBER NUMBER paid off in NUMBER NUMBER years number of payments saved NUMBER equivalent interest rate NUMBER NUMBER call today for more information NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ext NUMBER or please fill out the form below for more information name e mail phone city state timezone eastern central mountain pacific we don t want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to this is professional communication sent to insurance professionals to be removed from this mailing list do not reply to this message instead go here URL URL legal notice URL ,1
greetings you are receiving this letter because you have expressed an interest in receiving information about online business opportunities if this is erroneous then please accept my most sincere apology this is a one time mailing so no removal is necessary if you ve been burned betrayed and back stabbed by multi level marketing mlm then please read this letter it could be the most important one that has ever landed in your inbox multi level marketing is a huge mistake for most people mlm has failed to deliver on its promises for the past NUMBER years the pursuit of the mlm dream has cost hundreds of thousands of people their friends their fortunes and their sacred honor the fact is that mlm is fatally flawed meaning that it cannot work for most people the companies and the few who earn the big money in mlm are not going to tell you the real story finally there is someone who has the courage to cut through the hype and lies and tell the truth about mlm here s good news there is an alternative to mlm that works and works big if you haven t yet abandoned your dreams then you need to see this earning the kind of income you ve dreamed about is easier than you think with your permission i d like to send you a brief letter that will tell you why mlm doesn t work for most people and will then introduce you to something so new and refreshing that you ll wonder why you haven t heard of this before i promise that there will be no unwanted follow up no sales pitch no one will call you and your email address will only be used to send you the information period to receive this free life changing information simply click reply type send info in the subject box and hit send i ll get the information to you within NUMBER hours just look for the words mlm wall of shame in your inbox cordially mark r sherman p s someone recently sent the letter to me and it has been the most eye opening financially beneficial information i have ever received i honestly believe that you will feel the same way once you ve read it and it s free irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
please forgive the intrusion this is a one time only test please delete you should not receive any additional emails from this address if you do please send an email with remove as subject to testNUMBER URL thank you for your understanding ,1
 beautiful custom websites NUMBER complete get a beautiful NUMBER custom web site or yours redesigned for only NUMBER we have references coast to coast and will give you plenty of sites to view includes up to NUMBER pages you can add more java rollover buttons feedback forms more it will be constructed to your taste and specifications we do not use templates our sites are completely custom must host with us NUMBER NUMBER mo NUMBER megs NUMBER email accounts control panel front page graphical statistics more for sites to view complete below or call our message center atNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER hours your call will be returned promptly note if you are using a web based email program such as yahoo hotmail etc the form below will not work instead of using the form hyperlink click here you must include your name phone and state to get a response no exceptions name phone w ac state type project new site redesign current site comments your information is neither sold nor shared with third parties under any circumstance to be eliminated from future mailings hyperlink click here NUMBERicumNUMBER NUMBERgyqkNUMBERcvphNUMBER NUMBERz NUMBER ,1
 take control of your computer with this top of the line software norton systemworks NUMBER software suite professional edition includes six yes NUMBER feature packed utilitiesall for NUMBER special low price of only NUMBER NUMBER this software will protect your computer from unwanted and hazardous viruses help secure your private valuable information allow you to transfer files and send e mails safely backup your all your data quick and easily improve your pc s performance w superior integral diagnostics you ll never have to take your pc to the repair shop again NUMBER feature packed utilities NUMBER great price a NUMBER combined retail value yours for only NUMBER NUMBER price includes free shipping and for a limited time buy any NUMBER of our products get NUMBER free don t fall prey to destructive viruses or hackers protect your computer and your valuable information and hyperlink click here to order yours now or call toll free NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER your email address was obtained from an opt in list opt in uefas united email federation against spam approved list purchase code NUMBER if you wish to be unsubscribed from this list please hyperlink click here if you have previously unsubscribed and are still receiving this message you may email our hyperlink spam abuse control center we do not condone spam in any shape or form thank you kindly for your cooperation ,1
the ultimate way to work from home the best money making system of all as seen on national tv as seen on NUMBER NUMBER and many other credible references this is not a scam i hope this is ok that i send you this if you aren t interested just simply delete it read this message if you are like me and want more than your lousy weekly paycheck make more in a few months than last year at work believe it work it this really works don t make the same mistake i made i deleted this NUMBER NUMBER times before finally giving it a try within NUMBER weeks the orders money started coming in just like the plan below said it would give it a try you will be glad you did thanks and good luck you won t need luck just keep reading don t delete this first read about how a NUMBER year old made NUMBER NUMBER see below as seen on national tv this is the media report parents of NUMBER year old find NUMBER NUMBER cash hidden in his closet does this headline look familiar of course it does you most likely have just seen this story recently featured on a major nightly news program usa and reported elsewhere in the world including my neck of the woods new zealand his mother was cleaning and putting laundry away when she came across a large brown paper bag that was suspiciously buried beneath some clothes and a skateboard in the back of her NUMBER year old sons closet nothing could have prepared her for the shock she got when she opened the bag and found it was full of cash five dollar bills twenties fifties and hundreds all neatly rubber banded in labeled piles my first thought was that he had robbed a bank says the NUMBER year old woman there was over NUMBER NUMBER dollars in that bag that s more than my husband earns in a year the woman immediately called her husband at the car dealership where he worked to tell him what she had discovered he came home right away and they drove together to the boys school and picked him up little did they suspect that where the money came from was more shocking than actually finding it in the closet as it turns out the boy had been sending out via e mail a type of report to e mail addresses that he obtained off the internet everyday after school for the past NUMBER months he had been doing this right on his computer in his bedroom i just got the e mail one day and i figured what the heck i put my name on it like the instructions said and i started sending it out says the clever NUMBER year old the e mail letter listed NUMBER addresses and contained instructions to send one NUMBER dollar bill to each person on the list then delete the address at the top and move the others addresses down and finally to add your name to the top of the list the letter goes on to state that you would receive several thousand dollars in five dollar bills within NUMBER weeks if you sent out the letter with your name at the top of the NUMBER address list i get junk e mail all the time and really did not think it was going to work the boy continues within the first few days of sending out the e mail the post office box that his parents had gotten him for his video game magazine subscriptions began to fill up with not magazines but envelopes containing NUMBER bills about a week later i rode my bike down to the post office and my box had NUMBER magazine and about NUMBER envelops stuffed in it there was also a yellow slip that said i had to go up to the post office counter i thought i was in trouble or something laughs he goes on i went up to the counter and they had a whole box of more mail for me i had to ride back home and empty out my backpack because i could not carry it all over the next few weeks the boy continued sending out the e mail the money just kept coming in and i just kept sorting it and stashing it in the closet barely had time for my homework he had also been riding his bike to several of the banks in his area and exchanging the NUMBER bills for twenties fifties and hundreds i didn t want the banks to get suspicious so i kept riding to different banks with like five thousand at a time in my backpack i would usually tell the lady at the bank counter that my dad had sent me in to exchange the money and he was outside waiting for me one time the lady gave me a really strange look and told me that she would not be able to do it for me and my dad would have to come in and do it but i just rode to the next bank down the street laughs surprisingly the boy did not have any reason to be afraid the reporting news team examined and investigated the so called chain letter the boy was sending out and found that it was not a chain letter at all in fact it was completely legal according to us postal and lottery laws title NUMBER section NUMBER and NUMBER or title NUMBER section NUMBER in the us code also in the code of federal regulations volume NUMBER sections NUMBER and NUMBER which state a product or service must be exchanged for money received every five dollar bill that he received contained a little note that read please send me report number xyx this simple note made the letter legal because he was exchanging a service a report on how to for a five dollar fee this is the end of the media release if you would like to understand how the system works and get your NUMBER NUMBER please continue reading what appears below is what the NUMBER year old was sending out on the net you can use it too just follow the simple instructions thanks to the computer age and the internet you will make over half million dollars every NUMBER to NUMBER months from your home before you say bull please read the following this is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately due to the popularity of this letter on the internet a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below to see if it really can make people money the show also investigated whether or not the program was legal their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions they are bound to make some mega bucks with only NUMBER out of pocket cost due to the recent increase of popularity respect this program has attained it is currently working better than ever this is what one had to say thanks to this profitable opportunity i was approached many times before but each time i passed on it i am so glad i finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required to my astonishment i received total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in NUMBER weeks with money still coming in pam hedland fort lee new jersey here is another testimonial this program has been around for a long time but i never believed in it but one day when i received this again in the mail i decided to gamble my NUMBER on it i followed the simple instructions and wallaa NUMBER weeks later the money started to come in first month i only made NUMBER NUMBER but the next NUMBER months after that made a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so far in the past NUMBER months by re entering the program i have made over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and i am playing it again the key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and not change anything more testimonials later but first print this now for your future reference if you would like to make at least NUMBER NUMBER every NUMBER to NUMBER months easily and comfortably please read the following then read it again and again follow the simple instruction below and your financial dreams will come true guaranteed instructions order all NUMBER reports shown on the list below for each report send NUMBER cash the name number of the report you are ordering and your e mail address to the person whose name appears on that list next to the report make sure your return address is on your envelope top left corner in case of any mail problems when you place your order make sure you order each of the NUMBER reports you will need all NUMBER reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them your total cost NUMBER x NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER within a few days you will receive via e mail each of the NUMBER reports from these NUMBER different individuals save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the NUMBER NUMBER s of people who will order them from you also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happens to your computer important do not alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report or their sequence on the list in any way other than what is instructed below in step NUMBER through NUMBER or you will loose out on majority of your profits once you understand the way this works you will also see how it does not work if you change it remember this method has been tested and if you alter it will not work people have tried to put their friends relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money but it does not work this way believe us we all have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened so do not try to change anything other than what is instructed because if you do it will not work for you remember honesty reaps the reward NUMBER after you have ordered all NUMBER reports take this advertisement and remove the name address of the person in report NUMBER this person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER insert your name address in the report NUMBER position please make sure you copy every name address accurately take this entire letter with the modified list of names and save it on your computer do not make any other changes save this on a disk as well just in case you loose any data to assist you with marketing your business on the internet the NUMBER reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e mails legally where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more there are NUMBER primary methods to get this venture going method NUMBER by sending bulk e mail legally let s say that you decide to start small just to see how it goes and we will assume you and those involved send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails each let s also assume that the mailing receive only a NUMBER NUMBER response the response could be much better but lets just say it is only NUMBER NUMBER also many people will send out hundreds of thousands e mails instead of only NUMBER NUMBER each continuing with this example you send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails with a NUMBER NUMBER response that is only NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people responded by sending out NUMBER NUMBER e mail each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER out of those NUMBER NUMBER e mails only NUMBER NUMBER responded with orders that s NUMBER people responded and ordered report NUMBER those NUMBER people mail out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER million e mails sent out the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER whose NUMBER NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER million e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER that s NUMBER NUMBER orders times NUMBER each NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER half million your total income in this example is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER grand total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER numbers do not lie get a pencil paper and figure out the worst possibleresponses and no matter how you calculate it you will still make a lot of money remember friend this is assuming only NUMBER people ordering out of NUMBER NUMBER you mailed to dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or half or even one NUMBERth of those people mailed NUMBER NUMBERe mails each or more there are over NUMBER million people on the internet worldwide and counting believe me many people will do just that and more method NUMBER by placing free ads on the internet advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of free places to advertise placing a lot of free ads on the internet will easily get a larger response we strongly suggest you start with method NUMBERand add method NUMBER as you go along for every NUMBER you receive all you must do is e mail them the report they ordered that s it always provide same day service on all orders this will guarantee that the e mail they send out with your name and address on it will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report available reports order each report by its number name only notes always send NUMBER cash u s currency for each report checks not accepted make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least NUMBER sheets of paper on one of those sheets of paper write the number the name of the report you are ordering your e mail address and your name and postal address place your order for these reports now report NUMBER the insider s guide to advertising for free on the net order report NUMBER from k palludan NUMBER summersweet ct las vegas nevada NUMBER usa ________________________________________________________________ ______ report NUMBER the insider s guide to sending bulk e mail on the net order report NUMBER from kris estes NUMBER casey drive NUMBER las vegas nevada NUMBER ________________________________________________________________ ______ report NUMBER secret to multilevel marketing on the net order report NUMBER from p clement NUMBER st malo est ile bizard quebec hNUMBERcNUMBERpNUMBER canada ________________________________________________________________ ______ report NUMBER how to become a millionaire utilizing mlm and the net order report NUMBER from david carpenter NUMBER dutch lane hazlet new jersey NUMBER usa ________________________________________________________________ _____ report NUMBER how to send out one million e mails for free order report NUMBER from s lasley NUMBER edgewood circle idaho falls idaho NUMBER usa ________________________________________________________________ _____ your success guidelines follow these guidelines to guarantee your success if you do not receive at least NUMBER orders for report NUMBER within NUMBER weeks continue sending e mails until you do after you have received NUMBER orders NUMBER to NUMBER weeks after that you should receive NUMBER orders or more for report NUMBER if you did not continue advertising or sending e mails until you do once you have received NUMBER or more orders for report NUMBER you can relax because the system is already working for you and the cash will continue to roll in this is important to remember every time your name is moved down on the list you are placed in front of a different report you can keep track of your progress by watching which report people are ordering from you if you want to generate more income send another batch of e mails and start the whole process again there is no limit to the income you can generate from this business following is a note from the originator of this program you have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life with no risk and just a little bit of effort you can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined follow the program exactly as instructed do not change it in any way it works exceedingly well as it is now remember to e mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in report NUMBER and moved others to NUMBER NUMBER as instructed above one of the people you send this to may send out NUMBER NUMBER or more e mails and your name will be on every one of them remember though the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach so my friend i have given you the ideas information materials and opportunity to become financially independent it is up to you now more testimonials my name is mitchell my wife jody and i live in chicago i am an accountant with a major u s corporation and i make pretty good money when i received this program i grumbled to jody about receiving junk mail i made fun of the whole thing spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved i knew it wouldn t work jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet i made merciless fun of her and was ready to lay the old i told you so on her when the thing didn t work well the laugh was on me within NUMBER weeks she had received NUMBER responses within the next NUMBER days she had received total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all cash i was shocked i have joined jody in her hobby mitchell wolf m d chicago illinois not being the gambling type it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan but conservative that i am i decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that i wouldn t get enough orders to at least get my money back i was surprised when i found my medium size post office box crammed with orders i made NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the first NUMBER weeks the nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live there simply isn t a better investment with a faster return and so big dan sondstrom alberta canada i had received this program before i deleted it but later i wondered if i should have given it a try of course i had no idea who to contact to get another copy so i had to wait until i was e mailed again by someone else NUMBER months passed then it luckily came again i did not delete this one i made more than NUMBER NUMBER on my first try and all the money came within NUMBER weeks susan de suza new york n y it really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you i followed the simple instructions carefully and within NUMBER days the money started to come in my first month i made NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and by the end of third month my total cash count was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER life is beautiful thanx to internet fred dellaca westport new zealand order your reports today and get started on your road to financial freedom if you have any questions of the legality of this program contact the office of associate director for marketing practices federal trade commission bureau of consumer protection washington d c there is no need to respond to this e mail if you do not wish to receive further correspondence this is a onetime e mail good luck ,1
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dear zzzz want to harvest a lot of email addresses in a very short time easy email searcher is a powerful email software that harvests general email lists from mail servers easy email searcher can get NUMBER NUMBER email addresses directly from the email servers in only one hour easy email searcher is a NUMBER bit windows program for e mail marketing it is intended for easy and convenient search large e mail address lists from mail servers the program can be operated on windows NUMBER NUMBER me NUMBER and nt easy email searcher support multi threads up to NUMBER connections easy email searcher has the ability to reconnect to the mail server if the server has disconnected and continue the searching at the point where it has been interrupted easy email searcher has an ergonomic interface that is easy to set up and simple to use easy email searcher is an email address searcher and bulk e mail sender it can verify more than NUMBER email addresses per minute at only NUMBERkbps speed it even allows you send email to valid email address while searching you can save the searching progress and load it to resume work at your convenience all you need to do is just input an email address and press the search button click the following link to download the demo hyperlink download site NUMBER or you can send email to NUMBER NUMBER com for more information about this program hyperlink download site NUMBER if you can not download this program please copy the following link into your url and then click enter on your computer keyboard here is the download links URL URL disclaimer we are strongly against continuously sending unsolicited emails to those who do not wish to receive our special mailings we have attained the services of an independent NUMBERrd party to overlook list management and removal services this is not unsolicited email if you do not wish to receive further mailings please click this link hyperlink mailto removal URL this message is a commercial advertisement it is compliant with all federal and state laws regarding email messages including the california business and professions code we have provided the subject line adv to provide you notification that this is a commercial advertisement for persons over NUMBERyrs old ,1
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me and my friends have this brand new idea a live webcam hyperlink click here this is not spam you have received this e mail because at one time or another you entered the weekly draw at one of our portals or ffa sites we comply with all proposed and current laws on commercial e mail under bill s NUMBER title iii passed by the NUMBERth congress if you have received this e mail in error we apologize for the inconvenience and ask that you remove yourself click hyperlink here to unsubscribe fysibvcgjyuwinmyvbpjtaebsymyukbrkn ,1
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me and my friends have this brand new idea a live webcam hyperlink click here this is not spam you have received this e mail because at one time or another you entered the weekly draw at one of our portals or ffa sites we comply with all proposed and current laws on commercial e mail under bill s NUMBER title iii passed by the NUMBERth congress if you have received this e mail in error we apologize for the inconvenience and ask that you remove yourself click hyperlink here to unsubscribe fysibvcgjyuwinmyvbpjtaebsymyukbrkn ,1
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there s only one thing better than a market driven business and that s a market driven business that offers consumable products and that is exactly what our system has to offer you we offer products that millions of people absolutely must have and the best part of all our products are consumable why is that so important what do you do when you run out of toilet paper do you go watch tv until you see an ad for toilet paper do you start cutting up your sheets into small pieces or do you just go to the store and get some more you see not only do our customers enjoy the fantastic benefits of our products every time they run out they come back to us to get more we work with them one time but we get paid over and over again welcome to the concept of residual income money that just keeps coming and coming what would you do with an extra NUMBER NUMBER next month if this business is so great why don t you just do it yourself good question and here s your answer all of us do the fact is that we make even more money each time we help someone like you get started we need you we can t succeed unless we make you succeed we will take you by the hand and walk you through this business step by step we will do whatever it takes that is our commitment to you it doesn t take a lot of money time or knowledge to achieve the dream all you need is the right opportunity at the right time a product that sells itself a plan to follow and your own personal coach and mentor if you are a motivated person looking for a positive change then you are in the right place if a personal coach and mentor who cares about you holding your hand through the entire process of starting your business sounds good then this is it but we re not looking for just anyone we re looking for motivated people who are serious about improving the quality of their lives timing is everything i was just in the right place at the right time you re in the right place and your timing is perfect visit URL and take advantage of this fabulous opportunity today it just may change your life we respect your privacy and pledge not to abuse this privilege to stop future mailings reply to this email with remove in the subject line you will be removed imediately or send a blank email with remove in subject to remove URL you are receiving this message because you have recently expressed an interest in receiving information about online business opportunities if this is in error then please accept my most sincere apology and simply unsubscribe yourself below under bill sNUMBER title iii passed by the NUMBERth us congress this message shall not be considered spam as the sender has included contact information and an immediate method of removal ,1
 kevin george abidjan cote d ivorie west africa dearest one although we have not met i got your contact through the internet and decided to contact you for assistance i was until recently a final year engineering student of the university of sierra leone west africa early in january last year the rebels in my country struck our township and killed my parents in one of their attacks my late father king christopher george being the king of the town was a prime target fortunately for me i was in school when the attack took place i equally lost my only sister to the rebels when i got home for the remains of my parents and the subsequent burial that followed i discovered a document indicating that my late father had deposited some NUMBERm united states dollars six million united states dollars with one of the private security company here in abidjan cote d ivorie this money according to the docement was meant for the building of an auto repair company for me by my late father when i complete my studies upon the discovery of this document i travelled to the cote d ivorie to trace the concerned security company and to make claims for the said money as the only surviving next of kin to my father but deliberatley i have decided to keep all my uncles and aunts out of the issue as none of them will be happy to know i am in possession of such money i have succeded in making the people at the security company believe that i am the next of kin and all the documents related to are now with me i do not know what to do with it but i have decided to contact you to seek your assistance in helping me to take it outfrom the security company and transfer it to your account and help me to come to your country to continue my education and so that you will help me to get the money invested until such a time that i will be ready to begin to use it i am really desperate as i am left alone now in the world let me know what you want as compensation for helping me to solve this my problem most importantly iseriously appeal that you maintain high level of secrecy and confidentiality in the whole thing please you can call me wilth is number NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i remain yours sincerely kevin george yahoo mail une adresse URL gratuite et en français ,1
 high velocity term underwriting has arrived high velocity term underwriting has arrived with unbelieveable rates z app the competition z app the competition eliminates all paperwork online pre application process cuts days out of the application process avoids delays by ensuring that all information submitted is correct and complete eliminates the need for client visits and your need to obtain original client signatures increases your clients satisfaction with improved ease accuracy and speed helps you deliver policies faster than the competition don t delay call or e mail mailto zapp rosterfinancial com us today for more information NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERxNUMBER or please fill out the form below for more information name e mail phone city state roster financial services llc mailto customerservice rosterfinancial com z app is an on line preliminary application available through the zurich life companies and used in conjunction with zurich s telelife process replacement forms required in some states not for use with the general public for agent use only we don t want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to this is professional communication sent to insurance professionals to be removed from this mailing list do not reply to this message instead go here URL URL legal notice URL ,1
important information the new domain names are finally available to the general public at discount prices now you can register one of the exciting new biz or info domain names as well as the original com and net names for just NUMBER NUMBER these brand new domain extensions were recently approved by icann and have the same rights as the original com and net domain names the biggest benefit is of course that the biz and info domain names are currently more available i e it will be much easier to register an attractive and easy to remember domain name for the same price visit URL today for more info register your domain name today for just NUMBER NUMBER at URL registration fees include full access to an easy to use control panel to manage your domain name in the future sincerely domain administrator affordable domains to remove your email address from further promotional mailings from this company click here URL gNUMBER ssNUMBER NUMBERoxerNUMBER NUMBERuqkhNUMBERkcdlNUMBER NUMBERgeilNUMBER ,1
 ebay auction news recommended resource special edition monday august NUMBERth NUMBER multiple streams of revenue using ebay and internet free auction profits toolkit and free training class for the first NUMBER respondents you have been selected to participate in this free offer this ebay and internet e course live web training conference and auction profit toolkit could easily sell for NUMBER but it s yours absolutely free this special free offer has been brought to you by your friends at ebay auction news craig meyer the auction man has agreed to provide you a free live training class that you won t want to miss you might say craig meyer the auction man that s because most of you remember craig as the real estate guru who in NUMBER helped over NUMBER NUMBER families buy their own homes using little or none of their own money craig was featured on television programs throughout the country for this incredible effort craig is not one of those get rich quick gurus but a guy who has helped families realize the american dream i will tell you craig meyer is the real deal craig and his staff have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours testing testing and more testing craig has developed an incredible system for making big money using ebay and the internet this system will be revealed to you in craig s brand new live online conference craig is providing a limited number of ebay auction news subscribers the opportunity to attend this conference for free register for the class hyperlink click here NUMBER free live online training class craig meyer s multiple streams of revenue using ebay and the internet sessions start NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm pst NUMBER NUMBERpm pst NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam pst NUMBER NUMBERam pst NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm pst NUMBER NUMBERpm pst NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam pst NUMBER NUMBERam pst NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam pst NUMBER NUMBERam pst NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm pst NUMBER NUMBERpm pst pre recorded class anytime this is the live online training class that started it all this class can help you learn how to create multiple streams of ebay and internet revenue for life this course is personally taught online by craig meyer himself plus when you attend you will get the entire auction profits toolkit absolutely free a NUMBER value just think about it you will have personal and individual training craig will be teaching you all of his proven successful and profitable wealth secrets live interactive intense and jam packed with information plus during craig s live online class he will reveal the secret to making NUMBER NUMBER in the next NUMBER days no hype i promise this is the real deal you don t want to miss this conference so respond right now are you interested in financial freedom are you interested in having multiple streams of income are you willing to work with craig personally to achieve these goals are you ready to the auction profit toolkit and training class free if so just go to the registration page hyperlink click here get registered now you ll receive a confirmation email immediately after you register keep the confirmation email handy it contains all the codes and access numbers to view the program on your pc and get on the call this conference will be sold out actually since the entire program is free it will simply fill up once it is full it s full to guarantee your participation register right now here is how you register lock in your position you have to go to this website hyperlink click here be sure to do it now the web conference and auction profits course are going to go quickly and i don t want you to miss out sincerely taylor brooks ebay auction news to be removed hyperlink click here ,1
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 we thank you for just a moment of your time nextresearch is inviting you to join a panel of consumer electronics users now being created to help manufacturers network programmers and entertainment companies shape their future offerings in exchange for your willingness to participate there will be prizes and incentives awarded all contact information will be held in strictest confidence and we will never try to sell you anything you will be able to opt out of the panel at any time please click here hyperlink http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER nextresearch nr htm if you would like to participate in your first survey and earn a chance to win one of NUMBER new digital video recorders being awarded in september you do not have to join the panel to participate in this survey this is a national market research program conducted with the highest ethical standards feel free to contact program director jennifer choate at NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with any questions to unsubscribe from this list simply reply to this email to be removed from future invitations to participate thank you again for your consideration nextresearch hyperlink http www nextresearch com link to survey hyperlink http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER nextresearch nr htm ,1
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bassey associates falomo ikoyi lagos nigeria for your kind attention re request for mutually benefitting endeavour i humbly crave your indulgence in sending you this mail if the contents does not meet with your personal and business ethics i apologize in advance i am barrister williams bassey attorney at law i represent alhaji ishmaila ibrahim gwarzo s estates alhaji gwarzo was the chief security advicer of the then military leader of this country nigeria in the person of late general sani abacha who died on the NUMBERth of june NUMBER with the advent of a new democratic dispensation in the country under the leadership of gen olusegun obasanjo rtd my client has come under severe persecution due to the sensitive position he held in the last military regime presently he is under house arrest restricted only to the confines of his village the main purpose of this mail is to intimate you of a business proposal that might be of interest to you my client has informed me of the existence of funds deposited with a security company abroad this fund came about as part of security votes that were allocated to my client s portfolio during his tenure as chief security advicer to the then president what happened was that he had part of the funds transferred from the vaults of the central bank of nigeria to this security outfit with the aim of purchasing arms and ammunitions for the personal security outfit of the then president but before the purchase could take place the president died my client has deceided to keep this for himself as all his properties has been confisticated by the present regime but due to his incarceration he cannot travel out and effect the change of possession to his benefit i have been mandated by my client to source for a foreign partner that can help him facilitate the change of possession the deposit certificate and the code needed for the execution of this endeavour are in my possession the funds in question is usdNUMBER NUMBERm thirty three million six hundred thousand united states dollars only should this proposition be of interest to you you can reach me through my e mail address so that we can go through the rudiments of this endeavour i remain most obliged barrister williams bassey jp principal partner bassey associates ,1
 over NUMBER NUMBER the first year most of that while i was sleeping will work for anyone anywhere imagine the perfect business you can run it from home or from anywhere with a telephone connection there is no large investment to get started you can put everything on auto pilot there is no face to face selling involved there is no inventory to buy or ship you can even work in your underwear if you want to no more ties if you are willing to put NUMBER or NUMBER hours in to start this can be a mint if you can t spare a few hours the money for a movie for two a snack don t go any further sound good it is the cash flow system that brought in over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the first year my internet business brought in over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER last year and i m going to show you exactly how you can do the same thing but i m not going to stop there i m going to give you five internet businesses you can start right now today please visit our website and place your order today hyperlink click here to order by postal mail please send to the below address or order via fax from our NUMBER hour fax line NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER make payable to instant internet empire instant internet empire NUMBER east southern ave springfield ohio NUMBER ___instant internet empire NUMBER NUMBER add NUMBER NUMBER processing fee to your order important credit card information please read below credit card address city state and zip code must match billing address to be processed check____ moneyorder____ visa____ mastercard____ americanexpress___ debt card___ name_______________________________________________________ as it appears on check or credit card address____________________________________________________ as it appears on check or credit card ___________________________________________________ city state zip as it appears on check or credit card ___________________________________________________ country ___________________________________________________ credit card number expiration month_____ year_____ ______________________________________________ phone number ___________________________________________________________ email address all information sent via email address please write neat ___________________________________________________________ authorized signature to be removed from our mailing list simply put the word remove in the subject line and send to the email address below for those who wish to be removed please don t complain to the remove name isp a remove list can t be make if you have it shut down email address hyperlink remove ,1
dear partner to be first i must apologise to you for using this medium to communicate to you about this project i am a highly placed official of government of nigeria and also a founding member of the ruling party in power now the peoples democratic party pdp my committee the niger delta development corporation nddc which is in charge of managing and supervising the disbursement of oil sales revenues for the nigerian government the revenues under our control runs into several hundred of millions of dollars URL self and other colleagues in the nddc are currently in need of a foreign partner with whose bank account we shall transfer the sum of forty nine million five hundred thosand united states dollars NUMBER NUMBERm this fund accrued to us as commission for oil sales contracts handled under our supervision the fund is presently waiting in the government account named cbn fgn independent revenue account number NUMBER NUMBER with j p morgan chase bank new URL can do your independent verifictaion of this however by virtue of our position as civil servants and members of the nddc we cannot acquire this funds in our name this is because as top civil servants we are not allowed by law of the land to own or operate bank accounts outside our country for now i have been delegated as a matter of trust by my colleagues to look for an overseas partner in whose account we would transfer the fund hence the reason for this mail we shall be transferring the money to your account with your company as we shall present your company as a registered foreign company with a branch in nigeria and you are been paid for a contract which you executed for our country through the nddc and any oter federal ministry that we decide to use to siphon the funds away for your support and partnership please reply me to negotiate your fees or the percentage you wish to be paid when the funds arrive your bank account you must however note that this transaction with regards to our disposition to continue with you is subject to these terms firstly our conviction of your transparency secondly that you treat this transaction with utmost secrecy and confidentiality finally and above all that you will provide an account that you have absolute control over the transaction although discrete is legitimate and there is no risk or legal disadvantages either to ourselves or yourself now or in the future as we have put in place perfect mchineries that will ensure a hitch free transfer into your account upon acceptance the transfer will be effected to your account within ten fourteen NUMBER NUMBER working days as soon as we reach an agreement and you furnish me with a suitable bank account and company name and address with all your contact numbers including fax number i am looking forward to doing business with you and do solicit your confidentiality in this transaction please mail your response to me yours faithfully anderson k eseimoku ,1
 introduction we sell backup cds also known as warez cds backup cds are copies of software for example if you go into a shop and buy windows xp pro for about NUMBER you get the serial the cd the box and the manual if you order it off us you get the windows xp cd and the serial number it works exactly the same but you don t get the manual and box and the price is only NUMBER NUMBER that is a saving of NUMBER and the only difference is you don t have a colorful box and manual which are not very useful features over NUMBER applications over NUMBER games we reply at all your requests in a few hours newest releases we have the best price on the web best choice of cd s ever seen on web we ship orders to worldwide secure credit card processing thru our authorized on line retailer your information will be passed through a secure server and encrypted NUMBERbit no need to worry about someone will steal you credit card details most popular cd s adobe photoshop NUMBER NUMBER finallonly NUMBER NUMBER ms windows xp pro only NUMBER NUMBER ms office xp pro NUMBERcd s only NUMBER NUMBER gratitude s of our customers john stewartthanks guys i just got the set of cd s and they work as promised you got a happy customer ready to order some more and i ll send more customers mike sandelli only want you to now that the cd i ordered had arrived i was a little suspicious when i ordered the stuff but i was wrong thanks for your services and never let the site go down chris andersontop marks for an excellent service your speed of response to my query was second to none i ll certainly be buying from you in future keep up the good work guys to order please open warezcds html in attachment NUMBERjkxaNUMBER NUMBERjwrjNUMBERjopdNUMBER NUMBERqleeNUMBERmhzqNUMBER lNUMBER ,1
attn i am bulawa mulete jr the son of mr steve mbeki mulete from zimbabwe i am sorry this mail will surprise you though we do not know due to the current war against white farmers in zimbabwe and the support of president robert mugabe to claim all white owned farms in our country to gain favor for re election all white farmers were asked to surrender their farms to the government for re distribution and infact to his political party members and my father though black was the treasury of the farmers association and a strong member of an opposition party that did not support the president idea he then ordered his party members and the police under his pay row to invade my father s farm and burn down everything in the farm they killed my father and took away a lot of items from his farm after the death of my father our local pastor and a close friend of my father handed us over will documents with instructions from my father that we should leave zimbabwe incase anything happen to him the will documents has a certificate of deposit confirming a deposit kept in custody for us in a security company unknown to the company that the content is money hence it was deposited as personal belongings and ensure that we do not remain here as we could easily be found by his enemies the total amount is us NUMBER NUMBERm we are therefore soliciting for your assistance to help us move the fund out of zimbabwe as our fate and future is far from reality hence this mail to you the president s present ban of international press into zimbabwe and the drop from office of the finance minister to avoid giving white farmers fund transfer clearance above us NUMBERm is just a few of the unthinkable things he is committing in my country i have tried to reach my father s close friend mr john casahans from australia also a farmer who was leaving in zimbabwe with us but left with his family late last year following this ugly development to no avail should you be interested to help us contact me immediately via email for easy communication and i will furnish you with the time frame and modalities of the transaction we have concluded a wonderful plan of caring out the transfer within two weeks please note that this transaction isNUMBER confidential and risk free and will not endanger you or us in any way we have resolved to give you NUMBER of the total sum upon confirmation of the fund in any account of your choice were the incident of taxation will not take much tool on the money and we look forward to coming over to your country to invest our share and settle there i will a private phone so that our conversation can be NUMBER confidential note do reply to bulmulete URL god bless you indeed as you help yourself and us mr bulawa mulete jr irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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dear sir my name is dr steven m duba the son of mr theo duba of zimbabwe i got your address from south african information exchange johannesburg due to the previous war against white farmers in zimbabwe by president robert mugabe and his supporters to claim all the white owned farms in our country he ordered all the white owned farmers to surrender all their farms to his party members and his followers my father was a victim of this oppression and inhuman behavior as he was one of the richest farmers in our country my fayher was totaly against the act by the presidnt mugabe the president s supporters invaded my father s farm burnt everything in the farm arrested him and confiscated all his investment early last year when this victimization of white farmers by president mugabe started my late father envisaged a worse situation he arranged almost all his money concealed it in a box and smuggled it out of zimbabwe through diplomatic means to south africa when he arrived south africa he lodged the box in a private security company through the help of his lawyer here in south africa without revealing the real contents of the box to the security company then went back home he registered the box as family treasure while he was still in detention that led to his death due to torture he directed me to his lawyer in south africa because of the escalation of the crisis in zimbabwe he did not want my life to be in danger he was arrested on the NUMBERth of march last year unfortunately my dear father died on the NUMBERth of december NUMBER i came to south africa march NUMBER now my stay here in africa is frustrating and depressing because my father s lawyer is presently hospitalized in london due to terrible heart problem though the lodgment documents are with me as such i want to relocate to your country for good presently my residence permit here in south africa is an asylum permit as a refugee i am seeking for your assistance in transferring the money in the security company us NUMBER million out of this country to your country for investment if you think you can help me please try to get in touch with me immediately with the number below your compensation share for assistance will be negotiated if you are ready to assist me since the problem in my country is still lingering please endeavor to keep this information to yourself and secret because i wouldn t want anything that will expose me and the existence of this money your urgent response will be highly appreciated sincerely yours steven duba dr tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER __________________________________________________ do you yahoo yahoo finance get real time stock quotes URL ,1
hi job seeker when you create a free my net temps account you have access to the tools and resources for finding your next job more effectively it only takes a minute plus you get news and tips specific to your profession everything you need is in your my net temps account post up to NUMBER resumes with the build my resume and copy paste tools setup custom search agents to automatically receive job leads resume statistics to track your success resume cover letter and thank you letter writing tips salary calculator career articles and weekly newsletter access to over NUMBER recruiters that can help your job search setup your account now at URL the net temps team URL ,1
dear sir or madam my name is petr stanek and i am managing the free trial subscription program at the european internet network ein ein publishes hourly updated breaking news headlines and other important information from NUMBER countries and regions during september you and your associates can have a free trial subscription to the ein deluxe edition you will have access to a collection of NUMBER NUMBER daily updated articles a news archive and many other benefits too once again this trial is free to subscribe just reply to this e mail or sign up at URL a partial list of current ein subscribers can be found at URL if you have any questions comments or need assistance signing up please contact us personally by either writing to helpdesk URL or simply replying to this email please feel free to forward this offer to any of your colleagues best regards petr stanek subscription department ein news URL to be removed please reply to remove URL ,1
dear friend i am mrs sese seko widow of late president mobutu sese seko of zaire now known as democratic republic of congo drc i am moved to write you this letter this was in confidence considering my present circumstance and situation i escaped along with my husband and two of our sons james kongolo and nzanga out of democratic republic of congo drc to abidjan coted ivoire where my family and i settled while we later moved to settled in morroco where my husband later died of cancer disease however due to this situation we decided to change most of my husband s billions of dollars deposited in swiss bank and other countries into other forms of money coded for safe purpose because the new head of state of dr mr laurent kabila has made arrangement with the swiss government and other european countries to freeze all my late husband s treasures deposited in some european countries hence my children and i decided laying low in africa to study the situation till when things gets better like now that president kabila is dead and the son taking over joseph kabila one of my late husband s chateaux in southern france was confiscated by the french government and as such i had to change my identity so that my investment will not be traced and confiscated i have deposited the sum eighteen million united state dollars us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with a security company for safe keeping what i want you to do is to indicate yourinterest that you can assist us in receiving the money on our behalf so that i can introduce you to my son kongolo who has the out modalities for the claim of the said funds i want you to assist in investing this money but i will not want my identity revealed i will also want to acquire real landed properties and stock in multi national companies and to engage in other safe and non speculative investments as adviseby your good self may i at this point emphasize the high level of confidentiality which this upcoming project demands and hope you will not betray the trust and confidence which i repose in URL conclusion if you want to assist us my son kongolo shall divulgeto you all briefs regarding this project tell you where the funds are currently being maintained and also discuss remuneration for your services for this reason kindly furnish us your contact information that is your personal telephone and fax number for validation purpose and acknowledge receipt of this mail using the above email address yours sincerely mrs mariam m seseseko irish linux users group social events social URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
 request for urgent business assistance your contact was availed to me by the chamber of commerce it was given to me because of my diplomatic status as i did not disclose the actual reasons for which i sought your contact but i was assured that you are reputable and trustworthy if you will be of assistance i am laurent mpeti kabila jnr the second son of late president laurent desire kabila the immediate past president of the democratic republic of congo in africa who was murdered by his opposition through his personal bodyguards in his bedroom on tuesday NUMBERth january NUMBER i have the privilege of being mandated by my father colleagues to seek your immediate and urgent co operation to receive into your bank account the sum of us NUMBERm twenty five million dollars and some thousands carats of diamond this money and treasures was lodged in a vault with a security firm in europe and south africa sources of diamonds and fund in august NUMBER my father as a defence minister and president has a meeting with his cabinet and armychief about the defence budget for NUMBER to NUMBER which was us NUMBERm so he directed one of his best friend frederic kibasa maliba who was a minister of mines and a political party leader known as the union sacree de i opposition radicale et ses allies usoral to buy arms with us NUMBERm on NUMBERth january NUMBER for him to finalized the arm s deal my father was murdered f k maliba fkm and i have decided to keep the money with a foreigner after which he will use it to contest for the political election inspite of all this we have resolved to present your or your company for the firm to pay it into your nominated account the above sum and diamonds this transaction should be finalized within seven NUMBER working days and for your co operation and partnership we have unanimously agreed that you will be entitled to NUMBER NUMBER of the money when successfully receive it in your account the nature of your business is not relevant to the successful execution of this transaction what we require is your total co operation and commitment to ensure NUMBER risk free transaction at both ends and to protect the persons involved in this transaction strict confidence and utmost secrecy is required even after the successful conclusion of this transaction if this proposal is acceptable to you kindly provide me with your personal telephone and fax through my e mail box for immediate commencement of the transaction all correspondence is for the attention of my counsel joseph edward i count on your honour to keep my secret secret looking forward for your urgent reply thanks best regards mpeti l kabila jnr irish linux users group social events social URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
dear URL my name is andy koh the business development manager for URL could you please forward this to the person in charge of new partnerships and advertising friendsearch currently powers web personals and love sites for over NUMBER NUMBER partners on the web across over NUMBER countries some of our partners include URL URL URL URL and much more over the months our partners have been pleasantly surprised to find that we are steadily earning them significant revenue streams month after month we are looking to advertise partner with you to provide you with NUMBER customizable friendsearch personals plug in steady income stream with NUMBER revenue share earn up to NUMBER NUMBER month member interactive content which will capture your audience s attention for at least NUMBER minutes private branding co branding or your own hosted domain site fast NUMBER minutes setup fully automatic zero setup fee absolutely no charges and payments required to view an example of a fully customized personals using friendsearch go to URL which has become malaysia s largest web personals and have received lots of media attention all it took was a few minutes to set up in fact i have taken the effort to create a partner account for you click below and you ll be taken to your control panel where you can customize your own friendsearch personals plug in URL please try out your account or contact me if you have further questions or if you have any other ideas on how we can partner up best regards andy koh URL business development manager if you do not wish to have this account click below to remove it entirely URL ,1
targeted email marketing works there s no way around it no other medium let s you share your offer with more people for less than the cost of a small classified ad we can supply valid targeted emails according to your requirements which are compiled only on your order such as region country field keyword occupation domain name like aol com etc free membership signup today at http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER limited membership this is a one time message you will not be emailed again ,1
 we thank you for just a moment of your time nextresearch is inviting you to join a panel of consumer electronics users now being created to help manufacturers network programmers and entertainment companies shape their future offerings in exchange for your willingness to participate there will be prizes and incentives awarded all contact information will be held in strictest confidence and we will never try to sell you anything you will be able to opt out of the panel at any time please click here hyperlink http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER nextresearch nr htm if you would like to participate in your first survey and earn a chance to win one of NUMBER new digital video recorders being awarded in september you do not have to join the panel to participate in this survey this is a national market research program conducted with the highest ethical standards feel free to contact program director jennifer choate at hyperlink jchoate URL with any questions to unsubscribe from this list simply reply to this email with subject unsubscribe to be removed from future invitations to participate thank you again for your consideration nextresearch link to survey hyperlink http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER nextresearch nr htm ,1
 behind every elite producer is an elite seminar system attention all independent registered representatives our reps business has grown dramatically in the last two years what s their hook our exclusive seminar marketing system for seniors combined with equity indexed and fixed annuities advanced equity indexed annuities and how registered reps position these products in their practice the eia story is out with NUMBER years of great results proven seminar marketing system hundreds of our reps are using this system to build their senior client base a simpler approach to increasing sales with our generic powerpoint eia presentation and should i stay or should i go incomizer and inflationizer sales ideas real world scenarios that you can use to solve real world problems in today s environment the bottom line your senior clients and prospects want you to call us today call us today for more information NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or please fill out the form below for more information name e mail phone city state american financial marketing inc we don t want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to receive them this is a professional communication sent to insurance professionals to be removed from this mailing list do not reply to this message instead go here URL URL legal notice URL ,1
 otc newsletter discover tomorrow s winners for immediate release cal bay stock symbol cbyi watch for analyst strong buy recommendations and several advisory newsletters picking cbyi cbyi has filed to be traded on the otcbb share prices historically increase when companies get listed on this larger trading exchange cbyi is trading around NUMBER cents and should skyrocket to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER a share in the near future put cbyi on your watch list acquire a position today reasons to invest in cbyi a profitable company and is on track to beat all earnings estimates one of the fastest growing distributors in environmental safety equipment instruments excellent management team several exclusive contracts impressive client list including the u s air force anheuser busch chevron refining and mitsubishi heavy industries ge energy environmental research rapidly growing industry industry revenues exceed NUMBER million estimates indicate that there could be as much as NUMBER billion from smell technology by the end of NUMBER congratulations our last recommendation to buy orbt at NUMBER NUMBER rallied and is holding steady at NUMBER NUMBER congratulations to all our subscribers that took advantage of this recommendation all removes honored please allow NUMBER days to be removed and send all addresses to hyperlink goneforgood URL certain statements contained in this news release may be forward looking statements within the meaning of the private securities litigation reform act of NUMBER these statements may be identified by such terms as expect believe may will and intend or similar terms we are not a registered investment advisor or a broker dealer this is not an offer to buy or sell securities no recommendation that the securities of the companies profiled should be purchased sold or held by individuals or entities that learn of the profiled companies we were paid NUMBER NUMBER in cash by a third party to publish this report investing in companies profiled is high risk and use of this information is for reading purposes only if anyone decides to act as an investor then it will be that investor s sole risk investors are advised not to invest without the proper advisement from an attorney or a registered financial broker do not rely solely on the information presented do additional independent research to form your own opinion and decision regarding investing in the profiled companies be advised that the purchase of such high risk securities may result in the loss of your entire investment not intended for recipients or residents of ca co ct de id il ia la mo nv nc ok oh pa ri tn va wa wv wi void where prohibited the owners of this publication may already own free trading shares in cbyi and may immediately sell all or a portion of these shares into the open market at or about the time this report is published factual statements are made as of the date stated and are subject to change without notice copyright c NUMBER otc ,1
 request for urgent business assistance your contact was availed to me by the chamber of commerce it was given to me because of my diplomatic status as i did not disclose the actual reasons for which i sought your contact but i was assured that you are reputable and trustworthy if you will be of assistance i am laurent mpeti kabila jnr the second son of late president laurent desire kabila the immediate past president of the democratic republic of congo in africa who was murdered by his opposition through his personal bodyguards in his bedroom on tuesday NUMBERth january NUMBER i have the privilege of being mandated by my father colleagues to seek your immediate and urgent co operation to receive into your bank account the sum of us NUMBERm twenty five million dollars and some thousands carats of diamond this money and treasures was lodged in a vault with a security firm in europe and south africa sources of diamonds and fund in august NUMBER my father as a defence minister and president has a meeting with his cabinet and armychief about the defence budget for NUMBER to NUMBER which was us NUMBERm so he directed one of his best friend frederic kibasa maliba who was a minister of mines and a political party leader known as the union sacree de i opposition radicale et ses allies usoral to buy arms with us NUMBERm on NUMBERth january NUMBER for him to finalized the arm s deal my father was murdered f k maliba fkm and i have decided to keep the money with a foreigner after which he will use it to contest for the political election inspite of all this we have resolved to present your or your company for the firm to pay it into your nominated account the above sum and diamonds this transaction should be finalized within seven NUMBER working days and for your co operation and partnership we have unanimously agreed that you will be entitled to NUMBER NUMBER of the money when successfully receive it in your account the nature of your business is not relevant to the successful execution of this transaction what we require is your total co operation and commitment to ensure NUMBER risk free transaction at both ends and to protect the persons involved in this transaction strict confidence and utmost secrecy is required even after the successful conclusion of this transaction if this proposal is acceptable to you kindly provide me with your personal telephone and fax through my e mail box for immediate commencement of the transaction all correspondence is for the attention of my counsel joseph edward i count on your honour to keep my secret secret looking forward for your urgent reply thanks best regards mpeti l kabila jnr irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
nigeria electirc power authority federal secretariat ikoyi lagos from the desk of george osawa i am the chairman contract review committee of national electric power authority nepa although this proposal might come to you as a surprise since it is coming from someone you do not know or ever seen before but after due deliberations with my colleagues i decided to contact you based on intuition we are soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of seventy one million five hundred thousand united states dollars us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER this sum us NUMBER NUMBERm is an over invoice contract sum which is currently in an offshore payment account of the central bank of nigeria as an unclaimed contract entitlement which can easily be withdrawn or drafted or pay to any recommended beneficiary by my committee on this note you will be presented as a contractor to nepa who has executed a contract to a tune of the above sum and has not been paid proposed sharing partern NUMBER NUMBER for me and my colleagues NUMBER NUMBER for you as a partner fronting for us NUMBER NUMBER for expenses that may be incurred by both parties during the cause of this transacton our law prohibits a civil servant from operating a foreign account hence we are contacting you if this proposal satisfies you do respon as soon as possible with the following information NUMBER the name you wish to use as the beneficiary of the fund NUMBER your confidential phone and fax numbers further discussion will be centered on how the fund shall be transfer and full details on how to accomplish this great opportunity of ours thank you and god bless best regards george osawa irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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 the industry forum hyperlink minute man ii NUMBER lbs light requires no electricity under NUMBER complete now everybody can be a foamer hyperlink small one time project froth pak is the answer smallest self contained out of box foam application for repairs and small jobs also available insta stick tilebond roofpak and more hyperlink get your copy of the industry catalog most complete reference for our industry click on the picture above to learn more about the equipment the industry forum issue NUMBER NUMBERforum members NUMBER NUMBER dik m pa it would be much more useful to the industry if spfa would help find a code conforming fire barrier for attics crawl spaces etc than lecture on fast and loose applications of code something about NUMBER cents a bd ft installed meeting all codes and spray applied many companies we talk to have a product that appears to be perfect but they haven t spent the money to test over foam maybe a small committee could do a evaluation of various products report results to spfa who in turn will acquire funding from us NUMBER NUMBER william b australia we are in australia but we are finding it hard to locate polyurea sprayers here so that we can start a chapter of the pda do u have any list of australian contractors suppliers or maybe they can put their hand up and lets us know at hyperlink enviroline powerup com au it is for the better of the game that an association is need to inform clients and specifiers of the uses and properties of polyureas and train its own members also to keep cowboys out that give the industry a bad name NUMBER NUMBER ed m i am a writer for aviation magazines and one that i write for is a test international a new publication that just launched this month i need any new processes you might have that would be used on aircraft particularly commercial aviation NUMBER NUMBER john c louisiana i have a foam cat NUMBER graco machine and a probler gun with a NUMBER tip i use this setup to spray truck bed liners my question is can i and how do i spray foam insulation using my equipment and what are the different types of insulation NUMBER NUMBER murph mahaffey glas craft i like the new look of the industry forum NUMBER NUMBER mark w south carolina i m sick of all this garbage about covering foam with a thermal barrier what the hell do you think foam is if you are saying that anything that can be forced to burn should be covered with a fireproof barrier then you d better get busy covering all those trusses and joists and plywood up there that are definitely not carrying a class one fire rating this double standard for foam is coming directly from those who stand to lose business from it icynene is different it doesn t burn alone it doesn t melt it doesn t emit phosgene does it smoke in a fire situation sure so what blaming foam in the attic for a house fire because it forces the foam to eventually burn is about as stupid as blaming foam seat cushions for burning when a gas tank ruptures and burns up a car get real inspectors you want us to cover up the only thing in the attic assembly that doesn t burn as for the vaunted r rating system it is totally bogus the test is designed to make porous insulations appear to perform better than they actually do measuring only conduction and ignoring convection and radiant to convective transfer the test should have been thrown out for the industry lackey it is NUMBER years ago along with that obsolete fiberglassgarbage they re still selling everybody there s a reason they don t make refrigerators freezers coolers coffee cups out of fiberglass or cellulose think about it NUMBER NUMBER dirk benthien forum moderator thank you mark and dik for your statements above i also feel that far too often individuals and companies are too complacent and quietly live with rules and regulations without trying to change them even if everybody knows they do not make sense we are all experts and representatives of this industry and should speak up and promote change NUMBER NUMBER martin s canada does anyone make a dispensing machine for crumb rubber urethane blends NUMBER NUMBER carole l california re NUMBER NUMBER otto v germany what are the answers phase out of NUMBERb NUMBER NUMBER brian d canada there has been a lot of talk about ceramic coatings we are a distributor of such a coating we have never professed an r NUMBER reason is there isn t an astm test available to measure coatings for r value we compare standardized insulation to ceramic coatings via btu loss calculations depending on the criteria we can equal NUMBER to NUMBER inches of standard insulation with an aluminum jacket we have the data and the projects to prove it NUMBER NUMBER cpi we have inquiries from a number of people for used equipment especially gusmer hNUMBER NUMBER hNUMBER hNUMBER gx NUMBER and glas craft probler please contact NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER end of messages this forum welcomes anyone interested in the processing of single or plural component materials such as polyurethane polyurea coatings epoxies and other spray applied materials the industry forum a free eservice from hyperlink to ask or answer a question or to contribute anything simply send an e mail to hyperlink forum URL hyperlink used gusmer hNUMBER NUMBER and probler gun for sale NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER your privacy is protected please read the policies and rules at hyperlink URL show your name here become a sponsor call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or send an email to hyperlink cpi read this and previous forum issues all on one page it will only work if you are connected to the internet click here to go to hyperlink URL htm visit cpi llc on the web click hyperlink URL cpi is authorized distributor for all leading manufacturers in this industry including hyperlink gusmer hyperlink glas craft hyperlink graco resin technology hyperlink dynasolve cpi s customers enjoy impartial advice full service life long free phone support training and set up with all new system at a very 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 dear sir or madam in the past you have requested information on discounted products we hope that you find this of interest if you are not a smoker and find this email offensive we sincerely apologise we will be only too happy to take you off our mailing list if you are a smoker however and are fed up with paying high prices for your cigarettes and tobacco take a look at what we have to offer by clicking on this link URL we can send you legally by registered air mail direct to your door NUMBER cartons of cigarettes or NUMBER pouches of rolling tobacco all brands are available from only NUMBER euros about NUMBER pounds fully inclusive of postage and packing why pay more to remove yourself from our mailing list please click below mailto smokersclub URL yours faithfully smokers united URL xayNUMBERy ,1
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 x m a h c x _ u a a x u d i i z q t b h y n x a z d a w n z b a x z z i i i i p u g g j w g r b n b _ NUMBER NUMBER w NUMBER NUMBER b j a u c k b w i h q g h q b g b t b b q c NUMBER NUMBER w NUMBER NUMBER s j b b f b q k x z b i q s g n f t b b b q NUMBER NUMBER w NUMBER NUMBER b s g q b w f a s _ NUMBER wNUMBER w NUMBER NUMBER b c g b e b w b NUMBER NUMBER w u c b k y x w g NUMBER NUMBER wNUMBER _ c s j b c b w i a a o c w t p h g p j q w tel n g NUMBER NUMBER q gNUMBER z n a o n i i i i irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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 sent e mail message from enenkio URL robert moore date thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam to ulafalaa URL subject hawai i enenkio kingdoms americans shame sent e mail message from enenkio URL robert moore date thu sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam to webmaster URL subject hawai i enenkio kingdoms americans shame sent e mail message from enenkio URL robert moore date tue sep NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm to rbernardo URL subject hawaii enenkio kingdoms americans shame sent e mail message from enenkio URL robert moore date thu aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERam to doswork URL subject hawai i enenkio kingdoms americans shame sent e mail message from enenkio URL robert moore date mon aug NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERpm to web URL subject hawai i enenkio kingdoms americans shame reply from enenkio the following message was recieved saturday NUMBER july NUMBER nothing has been amdended or changed i hold no responcibility for the content of this message subject enenkio truth answers date sat NUMBER jul NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER est from enenkio URL robert moore to microfreedom URL enenkio truth answers news archives previous news releases and announcements july NUMBER NUMBER replies to asia times july NUMBER NUMBER news release gold bonds june NUMBER NUMBER replies to published articles june NUMBER NUMBER replies to published articles june NUMBER NUMBER replies to published articles june NUMBER NUMBER news release reply to rmi part NUMBER june NUMBER NUMBER news release reply to rmi part NUMBER march NUMBER NUMBER news release selection of second monarch march NUMBER mofa comments on state of war december NUMBER NUMBER news release death of first monarch july NUMBER NUMBER communiqu replies to false claims may NUMBER NUMBER news release gold stamps march NUMBER NUMBER news release declaration of existence of a virtual state of war february NUMBER NUMBER news release setting the record straight november NUMBER NUMBER news release declaration of claim demand for payment return to news previous news releases and announcements their statements are set forth in italicized orange type our replies are in black type june NUMBER NUMBER sirs the following text was located on a site written or placed by you or under your control dom is located on karitane island and now includes the taongi atoll in the northern atolls of the marshall islands in the south pacific NUMBER miles south of tahiti however the marshall islands government has condemned the fraudulent assertions of two organizations namely the dom and sister nation the kingdom of enenkio the marshallese name for wake island claiming to represent the mid pacific nation amid an alleged investment scam according to an article in agence france presse the marshall islands foreign ministry has issued warnings to countries against acknowledging any fraudulent claims made by representatives of either nation a honolulu based attorney created the kingdom of enenkio in the early NUMBERs it was based on a power of attorney agreement with marshall islands paramount chief mursel hermios which granted the attorney broad powers to act on his behalf the marshall islands high court has ruled the agreement invalid and ordered it nullified which the kingdom has disputed URL disconnected as of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the purpose of this letter is lodge a formal request for correction of false and misleading statements made by the author regarding the kingdom of enenkio while i am pleased to find you have apparently taken a serious interest in the kingdom of enenkio i am aghast at how distorted erroneous and misleading the article is as a consequence of my service to his majesty king remios and the people of enenkio i am obligated to respond to incidents such as this i will respectfully offer the following line by line correction for your convenience your text will be set off with in color dom is located on karitane island and now includes the taongi atoll in the northern atolls of the marshall islands in the south pacific NUMBER miles south of tahiti comment the construction of this statement implies the marshall islands are in the south pacific ocean NUMBER miles south of tahiti in which case a reader may be misled correction dom is located on karitane island in the south pacific NUMBER miles south of tahiti and now includes taongi atoll in the northern atolls of the marshall islands in the north pacific however the marshall islands government has condemned the fraudulent assertions of two organizations comment just because the rmi government has condemned the fraudulent assertions of enenkio does that make it true why would you want to quote anything from a government that has been internationally criticized and documented time and again for fraud abuse of human rights outright theft and is in default on almost every financial obligation it has ever made what purpose do you propose to serve by attacking a concerned group of dedicated people fighting for the very lives of marshallese natives who have been overrun by foreign invaders bathed in radiation from nuclear fallout and abused by their own corrupt government namely the dom and sister nation the kingdom of enenkio the marshallese name for wake island comment nothing could be further from the truth we cannot speak for dom but as for the kingdom we don t even know what being a sister nation means and for you to make this categorically false statement is not only a blatant sign of ignorance of the state of enenkio it is a deceptive intrusion upon the sovereign his majesty king remios the sovereign of enenkio and eneen kio atoll and an inexplicable and irresponsible abuse of journalism doesn t anybody check sources anymore correction the kingdom of enenkio is an independent sovereign state and the same could be said for dom claiming to represent the mid pacific nation amid an alleged investment scam according to an article in agence france presse comment the government of the kingdom of enenkio represents the people of enenkio who are forced to live in exile from eneen kio atoll lands and seas that played a significant role in marshallese culture for perhaps NUMBER years furthermore an article in agence france presse has no merit as it was authored by a source in the marshall islands government my preceding comments apply the kingdom of enenkio is not now and never has been engaged in an investment scam we have tried for many years to attract qualified investors and funding sources for programs that will not only benefit the people of enenkio but also will positively impact people around the globe in fact we are currently working with a former nasa astronaut one tool scammers have in their arsenal is to discredit visionary programs of legitimate entities so they can feed on carcasses of the ignorant many journalists use the same technique to sell their stories on sensationalism doesn t anybody check sources anymore the marshall islands foreign ministry has issued warnings to countries against acknowledging any fraudulent claims made by representatives of either nation comment the kingdom of enenkio has made no fraudulent claims of which i am aware and in my post i am responsible for all published information i would personally caution any countries against acknowledging any fraudulent claims made by representatives of nations companies or publications if i had credible proof to that effect however my preceding comments apply as to credibility of any rmi ministry source furthermore the rmi has repeatedly attacked the credibility of his majesty king hermios who happens to be the ancestral sovereign owner under marshallese custom of over NUMBER NUMBER of the land in the marshall islands including recent attempts to sequester him against his will we believe some officials in the rmi are afraid of what will happen to them if honesty and integrity returns to the administration of lands and programs to assist the people with their pressing needs and they no longer have their hands on the till to perpetrate their jaundiced agenda is an irresponsible abuse of journalism a honolulu based attorney created the kingdom of enenkio in the early NUMBERs comment mr moore is not an attorney though he was living in honolulu in the early NUMBERs correction the kingdom of enenkio was established by decree of the owner of eneen kio atoll a k a enen kio halcyon disclerta wake and NUMBER NUMBER other names iroijlaplap murjel hermios who then was paramount chief of the northern ratak atolls he passed away in december NUMBER and was fully recognized by the rmi government he declared the sovereign state of enenkio in NUMBER whereupon the people chose him as their king over eneen kio atoll ratified the constitution and established government as a limited constitutional monarchy it was based on a power of attorney agreement with marshall islands paramount chief mursel sic hermios which granted the attorney broad powers to act on his behalf correction the establishment of the kingdom of enenkio was made possible by murjel s appointment of mr robert moore the adopted brother of hermios alab of taongi atoll and a private citizen to the post of minister plenipotentiary the document of appointment was also a special power of attorney which granted mr moore very specific instructions to do whatever was possible to expel the united states from eneen kio atoll and establish an independent state on hermios and the people s behalf the marshall islands high court has ruled the agreement invalid and ordered it nullified which the kingdom has disputed comment since when is a special power of attorney an agreement the marshall islands high court has no record or knowledge of the special power of attorney except as has been publicized by the kingdom of enenkio and certainly exercises no jurisdiction over eneen kio atoll which lies over NUMBER miles north of lawful rmi boundaries the rmi has no political or territorial jurisdiction over the islands and seas of eneen kio atoll because the atoll by any name you choose was not incorporated into the rmi when it formed its government in NUMBER nor was it subsequently incorporated by any act law mandate or otherwise of any present or former iroijlaplap or monarch of eneen kio and any statement to the contrary is false fraudulent and irresponsible finally i suggest you as a journalist or publisher do a little more research not only into establishment and development of the kingdom of enenkio but into the prehistoric history and more recent u s invasion of eneen kio atoll properly named by marshallese centuries before arrival of colonial western powers and missionaries then i invite you to our embassy in honolulu to review the public files and documents mentioned above all of which exist in hard copy not in cyberspace and most of which are referenced or published at our official web site be sure to view the documents at our resource center which show in many cases full color digitized letters of correspondence with the NUMBER or so states in the world many of which are first world in closing i would simply appeal to your presumed sense of morality and ethics and request the referenced article be amended or corrected and if corrected elsewhere that a link be provided to the relevant paragraph cited above in the article skip to next file top of page june NUMBER NUMBER sir the following report was sent to me in which the author mentions the kingdom of enenkio thank you for spelling enenkio correctly the purpose of this letter below is to lodge a formal request for correction of false and misleading statements made by the author regarding the kingdom of enenkio fantasy island melchizedek passport scam reveals how the internet can take fraud to new frontiers by bertil lintner in bangkok december NUMBER NUMBER determined not to give up pedley moved his fictional nation once again this time to taongi atoll in the western pacific according to a melchizedek press release posted on its home page taongi was leased in NUMBER under a treaty with representatives of the kingdom of enenkio another only in cyberspace country which in this case claims the u s held wake island in real life taongi is an uninhabited atoll in the marshall islands URL link to article of december NUMBER NUMBER fantasy island disconnected as of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER response to the author i am unable to locate the melchizedek press release you cited indicating that taongi was leased in NUMBER under a treaty with representatives of the kingdom of enenkio such an act would be impossible and implausible as enenkio has no legal authority or political jurisdiction over taongi atoll in the marshall islands further more melchizedek dom is not so uninformed as to publicly advertise an illegal act in the midst of attempting to find a suitable land base for its people to administer their form of government the kingdom of enenkio did enter into a treaty with dom on the NUMBERth day of september NUMBER but it did not convey a lease of land it declared a state of peace and established diplomatic recognition between our governments however a prior agreement signed in may NUMBER which had nothing to do with the kingdom of enenkio transferred mr robert moore s rights to develop taongi from mr moore to dom it did not convey a lease at that time and no such document is in existence this was made possible because mr moore is the alab one class of landowner of taongi and had a legal power of attorney pertaining to taongi atoll from the principal landowner iroijlaplap paramount chief murjel hermios who was aware of and supported the transaction consideration if any under the agreement was personally retained by mr moore who is also the adopted brother of hermios now please understand that while mr moore was acting in the latter case on his own behalf and that of the future use and development of taongi which would have generated an income to iroijlaplap hermios mr moore wears another hat as minister plenipotentiary of the kingdom of enenkio iroijlaplap hermios also wore he died in december NUMBER NUMBER the same date of your article other hats one as first monarch king of the kingdom of enenkio and one as owner in allodium of eneen kio atoll a k a enen kio halcyon disclerta wake and several other names for you to state the kingdom of enenkio is another only in cyberspace country as you did in the above article is not only a completely and categorically false statement but it is a blatant sign of ignorance of the state of enenkio and it is a blatant deceptive intrusion upon his majesty king hermios the sovereign of enenkio and eneen kio atoll and an inexplicable and irresponsible abuse of your journalistic license unless of course your statement could be proved accurate i suggest you do a little more research not only into the establishment and development of the kingdom of enenkio but into the prehistoric history and more recent u s invasion of eneen kio atoll properly named by marshallese centuries before arrival of colonial western powers and missionaries then i invite you to our embassy in honolulu to review the public files all of which exist in hard copy not cyberspace and most of which are referenced or published at our official web address be sure to view the documents at our resource center which show in many cases full color digitized letters of correspondence with the NUMBER or so states in the world many of which are first world in closing i would simply appeal to your presumed sense of morality and ethics and request the referenced article be amended or corrected and that the link be added to the relevant paragraph cited above in the article skip to next file top of page june NUMBER NUMBER sir the following statement in quotes was copied from one of your footnotes to history d and e disconnected as of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER enenkio atoll in NUMBER the united states annexed wake island in the marshall islands of the western pacific after the marshalls became a u s trust territory the traditional chiefs of the area agitated for recognition that wake island was a part of the marianas chain and pressed their historical claims to the atoll called enenkio locally the u s government has consistently ignored these claims the protests took a sharper turn after the u s congress in NUMBER acknowledged the illegality a hundred years earlier of the establishment by americans of the republic of hawai i king murjel hermios who is paramount chief of an archipelago in the northern marshalls declared wake island s independence in NUMBER the marshalls recognized this claim shortly after the nation gained its independence in return for his services as minister plenipotentiary in the united states hermios granted american businessman robert moore land on taongi atoll in the northern marshalls which moore has declared the dominion of melchizedek comment with all candor i cannot figure how such straight forward facts such as we have presented to the public and over the internet since NUMBER could have possibly been construed into the above referenced text while i am pleased to find you have apparently taken a very serious interest unless your site is intended as some twisted joke which i am assuming is not the case in the history of the kingdom of enenkio i am aghast at how distorted erroneous and misleading your summary is as a consequence of my service to his majesty king remios and the people of enenkio i will respectfully offer the following line by line correction for your convenience your text will be set off with in color in NUMBER the united states annexed wake island in the marshall islands of the western pacific correction in NUMBER the united states invaded wake island the northernmost atoll actually named eneen kio centuries before western explorers arrived of the ratak chain of marshall islands in micronesia and the central north pacific ocean the author responds rest assured that i did not mean to downplay the role of violence in the american acquisition of the territory after the marshalls became a u s trust territory the traditional chiefs of the area agitated for recognition that wake island was a part of the marianas chain and pressed their historical claims to the atoll called enenkio locally correction following w w ii the trust territories of the pacific which included the marshall islands was placed under administration of the united states by the united nations while eneen kio was well established as one of the marshalls the u s only knew it as wake and having lost many u s lives there in NUMBER at the hands of japanese invaders kept control of it in NUMBER the paramount chief of the ratak atolls pressed his clan s historical and lawful claim to the NUMBER islands of eneen kio atoll the author responds i don t see much conflict between the two versions here the u s government has consistently ignored these claims correction the u s government has consistently ignored claims from the marshall islands government which failed to exert a claim during its move to independence in NUMBER and from the former traditional landowners including iroijlaplap murjel hermios the author responds i will note this the protests took a sharper turn after the u s congress in NUMBER acknowledged the illegality a hundred years earlier of the establishment by americans of the republic of hawai i correction the eneen kio claims gained some new momentum after precedents were set by the u s congress when in NUMBER they acknowledged the illegality of the NUMBER overthrow of the monarch of the kingdom of hawai i by a group of american businessmen and u s marines and in the following year returned the island of kaho olawe to the hawaiian people king murjel hermios who is paramount chief of an archipelago in the northern marshalls declared wake island s independence in NUMBER correction king murjel hermios who was paramount chief until his death in december NUMBER declared the sovereign state of enenkio in NUMBER whereupon the people chose him as their king over eneen kio atoll ratified the constitution and established government as a limited constitutional monarchy the author responds i will make the necessary corrections here the marshalls recognized this claim shortly after the nation gained its independence in return for his services as minister plenipotentiary in the united states hermios granted american businessman robert moore land on taongi atoll in the northern marshalls which moore has declared the dominion of melchizedek correction after the death of the first monarch his brother remios succeeded to the throne as second monarch and rules along with his brother crown prince lobadreo over the kingdom of enenkio today to continue the commentary the parts left out were either wrong or have nothing to do with the history of the kingdom of enenkio itself since hm king remios also succeeded to iroijlaplap of the northern ratak atolls of the marshall islands he also has responsibilities over NUMBER atolls NUMBER islands and over NUMBER atoll islets but that is another story which has nothing directly to do with the kingdom of enenkio i have offered this treatise in hopes that you will find the time to correct your site per my suggestions please feel free to contact me or view our pages at the address above thank you in advance for your attention and interest in this matter the author responds i imagine that you are asserting here that moore s melchizedek project which can be located on the web through the sources bibliography section of my web page is non existent be assured i will look further into par this thank you again for your response captain rydell i should be posting a revised version of the page in the next week or so june NUMBER NUMBER skip to next file top of page june NUMBER NUMBER news release part one background on may NUMBER NUMBER the ministry of foreign affairs and trade of the republic of the marshall islands posted a press release on the internet at URL discontinued as of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER the author mr joseph biglar undersecretary is not known to us has not heretofore communicated with the government of the kingdom of enenkio nor with its monarch his majesty king remios at any time and has no knowledge of any policies or state activities of enenkio there is no valid reason to assume that the said press release is indeed an official document the republic of the marshall islands has perfect knowledge that representatives of the kingdom of enenkio headed by his majesty king remios on the basis of his proper and lawful authority have the right and obligation to speak in support of the interests of certain persons many of whom happen to be marshallese nationals residing in the marshall islands response to so called press release this unprovoked attack upon his majesty king remios monarch of the kingdom of enenkio by the ministry of foreign affairs and trade of the republic of the marshall islands is wholly false it is also unjustifiably inflammatory and amounts to little more than an unquestionable confirmation of the predilection for infringement upon marshallese sovereign rights exercised by the current administration of the republic of the marshall islands which has been confirmed by the u s state department see human rights report this public posting shall serve as constructive notice to the marshall islands government that any attempt to interfere in the business of his majesty king remios iroijlaplap of the northern ratak atolls of the marshall islands or any acts decisions mandates announcements or directives thereby shall be met with definitive responses equal to the degrees of contravention the rmi is unequivocally cognizant that the kingdom of enenkio exists as a sovereign state as defined by the montevideo convention NUMBER was conceived as a separate independent state by its sovereign iroijlaplap murjel hermios in NUMBER was established by way of a public authority the constitution of the kingdom of enenkio atoll ratified in NUMBER by its people has negotiated diplomatic and trade treaties with many other states including the dominion of melchizedek has asserted political and territorial jurisdiction over islands and seas which lie entirely outside and well beyond the area defined as now quoting mr biglar s statement rmi geographical and political boundaries exercises authorities founded upon prehistoric traditional and matriarchal ancestral rights and titles bestowed under the sacred heritage of marshallese customary law reinforced by the rmi constitution upon the acknowledged iroijlaplaps of the northern ratak atolls whose authority is certainly not subject to scrutiny by ministry of foreign affairs and trade of the republic of the marshall islands has not subjugated assigned or encumbered any of its political jurisdiction within its defined territorial boundaries of islands and seas of eneen kio atoll to the government or people of the dominion of melchizedek or to any other entity including the republic of the marshall islands mr biglar is unequivocally cognizant that the republic of the marshall islands also exists as a sovereign state defined by the montevideo convention NUMBER was conceived as a separate state by un foreign governments which included the united states china and the ussr was also established under a public authority the constitution of the marshall islands ratified in NUMBER by its people has no relations with enenkio that allows rmi knowledge of anything that is not also public information and no such public information respecting relations with the dominion of melchizedek has ever been disseminated to harm the rmi to be condemned by mr biglar has no political or territorial jurisdiction over the islands and seas of eneen kio atoll which was not incorporated into the rmi in NUMBER nor subsequently incorporated by any act law or mandate of any present or former iroijlaplap or monarch thereof and any statement to the contrary is fraudulent as in the instant matter exercises authorities founded upon the rmi constitution which does not incorporate nor authorize political jurisdiction over territorial boundaries that include the islands or seas of eneen kio atoll and any statement to the contrary is fraudulent as in the instant matter has refused to acknowledge the leadership of the kingdom of enenkio in their every attempt to get the rmi government to mitigate the suffering of people residing in the ratak atolls under jurisdiction of iroijlaplap hermios and the rmi has rejected every suggestion to coordinate prospective relief efforts through the said iroijlaplap hermios the ministry of foreign affairs and trade of the republic of the marshall islands is steadfastly advised that any unilateral statements or actions by the administration of the republic of the marshall islands which purport seek or serve to diminish or question the credibility existence or authority of the government of the kingdom of enenkio in the conduct of its affairs of state without legitimate authentication by a court of competent jurisdiction are hereafter to be taken as deliberate acts of aggression upon the monarch of the kingdom his majesty king remios as head of state the government of the kingdom of enenkio and its people and will be countered with appropriate responsive measures furthermore in light of the ministry of foreign affairs and trade of the republic of the marshall islands announcement concerning the kingdom of enenkio your attention is respectfully directed to the following statement in the preamble of the constitution of the marshall islands then you decide for yourself with this constitution we affirm our desire and right to live in peace and harmony subscribing to the principles of democracy sharing the aspirations of all other peoples for a free and peaceful world and striving to do all we can to assist in achieving this goal on behalf of his majesty king remios we administrators of the kingdom of enenkio have wholeheartedly agreed to pursue the same goal for a free and peaceful world and have made no effort to the contrary see also report on rmi mismanagement skip to next file top of page news release part two june NUMBER NUMBER part two background the international narcotics control strategy report NUMBER click on reference NUMBER below released by the bureau for international narcotics and law enforcement affairs u s department of state washington dc february NUMBER states as follows where are ofcs located paragraph NUMBER thus it is now possible for an enterprising jurisdiction anywhere in the world to establish itself as an emerging ofc the newest ofcs e g niue and the marshall islands are now sprouting in remote areas of the world such as the pacific even more remote are mere figments of fertile imaginations such as the dominion of malchizedek sic or the kingdom of enenkio atol sic both entirely fraudulent in intent and practice note ofc offshore financial center response this unprovoked attack upon his majesty king remios monarch of the kingdom of enenkio the sovereign state of enenkio and its noble citizenry by the u s department of state is a reprehensible categorically false challenge of the sovereignty of the kingdom of enenkio it is also unjustifiably inflammatory and amounts to an unqualified felonious defamation of the international reputation of his majesty king remios the government of the kingdom of enenkio and organs thereof the unmitigated audacity and arrogance of the united states to attempt to link the kingdom of enenkio with international crime narcotics trafficking money laundering tax evasion international drug cartels terrorists bank fraud or any other sort of criminal activity without even one microscopic fragment of substantive evidence to corroborate such deliberately nefarious statements is reprehensible in the least this public posting shall serve as constructive notice to the united states government that any attempt to interfere in the business of his majesty king remios iroijlaplap of the northern ratak atolls of the marshall islands or any acts decisions mandates announcements or directives thereby shall be met with definitive responses equal to the degrees of contravention furthermore this matter will not be resolved until the president of the united states issues a formal apology to his majesty king remios along with the government of the kingdom of enenkio and the congress of the united states initiates a thorough investigation into the abuses of power subversion of natural rights and illegal occupation by the united states of the islands and seas of eneen kio atoll congressional representatives to hawaii the nearest state of the united states to eneen kio atoll and those of other states have repeatedly been advised of the foregoing atrocities and conditions and have failed to respond in kind the united states is obligated as the self assured trustee of pacific island states in micronesia to respond to the charges of ethnic cleansing and her responsibility to enenkio is no less for further information and links to documents see enenkio documents URL URL march NUMBER NUMBER news release the impact of the passing on december NUMBER of his majesty murjel hermios first monarch of the kingdom of enenkio iroijlaplap of the northern ratak atolls of the marshall islands beloved husband and father was felt throughout the society flags were flown at half mast for a week in the marshalls and for a a month at enenkio consulates around the world his remains were interred in a remote site reserved for the highest ranking chiefs according to marshallese custom his majesty king remios hermios second monarch of the kingdom of enenkio he was succeeded to the throne by his younger brother remios who will formally accept the staff of authority as second monarch titular head of state of the kingdom of enenkio in ceremonies being planned his majesty remios hermios was a retired educator in the marshalls and maintains a home in the ratak atolls his successor is designated to be his brother hrh crown prince lobadreo hermios for further information contact the state secretary back on the home page skip to next file top of page march NUMBER comments to readers from the ministry of foreign affairs subject a state of war declaration the kingdom of enenkio recognizes that an unresolved conflict of interests exists between it and the united states government the united states government admittedly at a time of colonial expansionism appears to have violated the laws of nature and the law of nations in taking possession of sovereign property in the northern ratak state which then had formal treaties with the republic of germany the explicitly immoral and illegal NUMBER seizure of marshallese homeland by agents of the federal government was the start of present day sentiments of deprivation of rights and dispossession of lands felt by many marshallese because of continual neglect misrepresentation and outright exploitation these scars on marshallese society have not healed thus a current state of adversity exists following four years of attempts to cause the united states to evaluate the plight of the marshallese of the northern ratak imposed by its actions with respect to wake island the government of enenkio on behalf of the marshallese king issued the state of war a declaration and broadcast it to the world the people were displaced from their native lands and kept as virtual prisoners of war not by virtue of being kept in but by virtue of being kept out it was through this pragmatic initiative that the kingdom of enenkio solicited support to heal the wounds inflicted upon the people and peacefully restore what was wrongfully taken from the ancestors of the ratak paramount chief king murjel hermios in retrospect the declaration has had little visible effect while a state of adversity does exist the hope for american recognition of past wrongs remains on the horizon the kingdom of enenkio does not condone nor tacitly sanction any act of belligerence by any person or agent of any government such unnecessary means would diminish any hope of mutual reconciliation and could diplomatically undermine the cause of peace within the family of nations the kingdom of enenkio also does not wish to see any further damage to the remnant happiness of the marshallese people while the kingdom of enenkio continues to seek accountability of the u s congress to obey its own laws to conform to the un charter conventions of the united nations relating to self determination preservation of human rights and protection against human rights abuses it believes accountability requires the u s to meet the pleas of the people oppressed by the conditions of this adversity the refusal of the u s to meet its obligations even to the extent that a simple discussion for resolution is held over the subject matter with representatives for the affected parties perpetuates the adversity turns a cold shoulder to the facts of abuse and ignores the rights of the marshallese people to whom the u s pledged in good faith to execute the NUMBER mandates of the united nations and its members your understanding is appreciated skip to next file top of page december NUMBER NUMBER news release subject death of the monarch of the kingdom of enenkio the government has declared a period of national mourning on the occasion of the death of the first monarch of the kingdom of enenkio his majesty king murjel hermios embassies missions and regional posts are instructed to display the flag at half staff until NUMBER january NUMBER memorial services held in the marshall islands where hm hermios made his home mark the passing of one of the most unpretentious of traditional marshallese leaders his remains will be interred in a family plot on one of the outer islands he so loved irooj hermios was head of state of the kingdom of enenkio revered as monarch over the islands of eneen kio atoll esteemed as iroijlaplap and high chief of the northern atolls of the ratak archipelago beloved as our brother and trusted as a friend his successor as iroijlaplap is to be formally named by a council of traditional leaders selection of a successor to the monarchy of the kingdom is in process and will be announced at a later date in the interim a reagent will serve as head of state hm hermios followed a long line of matriarchal predecessors as iroijlaplap aboriginal inhabitants of the islands today known as the marshalls part of micronesia in the north pacific ocean and first discovered by european seamen in the NUMBERth century were found to have a well developed societal structure many nations have since mostly by force prevailed over the marshall islands imposed unaccustomed western ideals upon her populace and ravaged her islands of resources and beauty today this area is commonly known as wake atoll and is illegally occupied by the federal government of the united states in one of the most courageous acts in recent times irooj hermios clearly understood he had a mission to succeed where his predecessors in interest had failed to secure the islands seas and lagoon of eneen kio atoll for his beloved people the account of his acts to establish the kingdom of enenkio as an island state independent of the governments of the marshalls and the united states may be researched at the official internet site on behalf of the government of the kingdom of enenkio we are extremely grateful for his dedication to the people of the marshall islands and are personally moved by the memory of a man who will surely one day be recognized as having a legacy of furthering the interests of his people by the setting of processes in motion to re establish marshallese domination over eneen kio atoll we are saddened that our brother has passed without his seeing the fruits of his devotion to marshallese ancestry and traditions in lieu of flowers mourners may contact the mission at the address above or call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sincerest best wishes for the holiday season and the coming new year are extended to all in peace news article skip to next file top of page july NUMBER NUMBER communiqu to correspondents recent articles defaming the government of the kingdom of enenkio have been maliciously published under the guise of a marshall islands government warning against fraudulent claims we have once more admonished the writer of the articles in the marshall islands for disregarding indisputable facts which clearly discredit his biased report we urge you to disregard all discourse in the media regarding the kingdom of enenkio which are not validated to that end you are cordially invited to contact this office with your specific questions or concerns for your advice the following statement was issued by the state secretary of the kingdom in reply the kingdom has never knowingly made any fraudulent claim whatsoever no claim we have made has ever been shown to be fraudulent nor has any claim ever come under or faltered from a challenge by anyone anywhere in the world we are working vigorously to regain occupation of the ancestral property of hm king hermios to resolve the virtual state of war that exists with the united states government and to be accepted as an honorable state among nations the kingdom does not pretend to be quoting from the report asserting authority over land within the geographical and political boundaries of the rmi we are however striving to expel the armed imperialistic invasion forces of the united states from the shores of eneen kio atoll so natural marshallese supremacy can be re establish there as to allegations of fraud and constitutional violation no one has dared to come forward with any such a charge we say let the issue be played out in the people s venue for the record not in a libelous weekly publication while we do not wear our brief history on our shirtsleeves our raison d tre is clearly mandated in the preamble to the constitution of enenkio which can be seen at our web site URL referencing the news article in the marshall islands journal entitled kingdom of enenkio sets up in new zealand of may NUMBERst the editor was advised contrary to his report that neither passports nor driver licenses can be purchased from the kingdom s web site the kingdom of enenkio does not sell passports if you have evidence to the contrary our foreign ministry would appreciate your furnishing it to them so steps can be taken immediately to investigate the matter you are advised if anyone sells or offers to sell an enenkio passport that such an act is patently illegal the published statement the group claims to represent iroijlaplap murjel hermios and the atolls of the ratak chain is wholly false i have explained this matter to the editor on several prior occasions and ample information is available at our internet site to refute the statement the kingdom does not represent any area outside of its territorial boundaries as the ratak atolls surely are contrary to their libelous statements the kingdom of enenkio was not created by robert moore and he is not a honolulu based attorney hm king murjel hermios is the acknowledged hereditary iroijlaplap of the northern ratak atolls and is also first monarch of the kingdom not of his own choice but by a legal process and free choice of our citizens who participated in the founding of the nation in NUMBER such a noble and peaceful beginning is not too uncommon in world history enenkio sic actually enen kio or eneen kio in reference to the atoll itself is the first marshallese name for a marshallese atoll located roughly NUMBER miles north of bok ak taongi atoll wake is a fictitious moniker applied to the re discovered eneen kio atoll by unknown western society writers skip to next file top of page may NUMBER NUMBER news release subject issuance of gold stamps the government of the kingdom of enenkio proudly announces commissioning of its inaugural issue of gold stamps this announcement made at the first sunday hawaii stamp coin and postcard show may NUMBERth was the first pre publication public notice of the issuance of gold stamps by the kingdom stamps are expected to be off the presses by early june NUMBER first day covers with new stamps affixed and postmarked official first day of issue by the kingdom will be available for a limited time following the dates of release distributors dealers and collectors are encouraged sign up as a charter member of the enenkio philatelic mint mailing list background the kingdom was established in march NUMBER and the government was chosen by the people who then ratified the constitution in september NUMBER however due to u s military activities on the island and the presence of armed occupation forces the government of the kingdom lingers in exile several nations have extended recognition of the sovereignty of the kingdom documents of citizenship are being issued and legations are located in europe south america usa and elsewhere a nation in conflict the land in question commonly known as wake island is actually an atoll comprised of three small islands assigned names of westerners who visited them wake wilkes and peale few people in the world today are aware that the native discoverers who named the atoll eneen kio lived in the marshall islands exercised constant jurisdiction and made regular use of it as a living food pantry and cultural site by way of developing the atoll as a nation the government is asserting that it is the indisputable holder of allodial title to wake atoll and has the right to exercise its sovereignty at the will of the people the united states of america began in a similar fashion not with a peaceful transition from colonial status lawful return of the land is grounded upon the legal precedent set by congressional apology to hawaiians for the NUMBER overthrow of the monarchy state of war by way of an official march NUMBER declaration sent to top u s officials the kingdom of enenkio has acknowledged that a virtual state of war now exists over the islands on account of the blatant acts of aggression and illegal armed invasions by troops from united states warships the primary objective of the notice was to request a congressional investigation into actual events and related factors surrounding the federal seizure of islands in the north pacific ocean by the united states calls to end u s operations vacate the atoll and negotiate return of the islands to jurisdiction of the kingdom have fallen on deaf ears despite repeated notices letters and legal advertising all major news media have consistently ignored the events and failed in their duty bring forth the truth to the people of the world regarding alleged incidents of piracy waste and human rights violations by federal agents of the united states government inaugural issue the gold stamps are based on events of the past and dreams for the future of peace in the global community as the millennium nears for that reason the universal gold standard was chosen as the basis for evaluation since the relative value of gold in world markets varies according to the value and stability of national currency units the stamps will similarly reflect changes in price when purchased with any particular currency however the real or intrinsic value of the stamps will remain as constant as gold the extrinsic value will be determined by philatelic collectors around the world note stamps are printed on paper stock do not contain gold metal and are not intended for use as money closing comments the government of the kingdom appeals to all people from every peaceable nation in the world to recognize the kingdom of enenkio as a sovereign nation promoting peace in the pacific region in doing so it seeks a peaceful resolution o f the state of war with the federal government of the united states and asks that everyone with human rights concerns use their influence accordingly the proceeds from the sale of gold stamps will help fund the restoration of the kingdom and end the conflict in peace skip to next file top of page march NUMBER NUMBER news release an official document entitled a declaration was sent march NUMBER to top executive and legislative officials in the federal government of the united states including selected cabinet members the document asserts that a state of war exists over the kingdom of enenkio atoll by way of acts by the federal government of the united states this is the most recent attempt to captivate the attention of the federal government one of the primary objectives of this action is to bring about a congressional investigation into the true events and factors surrounding the illegal seizure of islands in the north pacific ocean by the united states this latest position statement is one in a succession of dozens of disclosures statements letters and legal actions taken since the government of the kingdom was established in march NUMBER each with similar objectives calls for the u s to cease operations vacate the premises negotiate return of the island to the king apologize and compensate him for use abuse and illegal hold over following legal action have all failed to receive cognizance or reply from the federal government likewise despite repeated notices letters and legal announcements major news media have consistently ignored the events and failed in their duty bring forth the truth to the people of the world regarding the alleged piracy arrogance and human rights violations by the united states the land in question commonly called wake island is comprised of three small islands wake wilkes and peale named by western explorers for western persons what of the native discoverers the crux of the issue is that despite the passage of ownership via a complex matriarchal land tenure system for over two millennia with jurisdiction by the aboriginal chiefs of the northern ratak atolls of marshall islands the united states seems to believe it is justified in having seized the atoll in NUMBER and again inNUMBER historical records reveal that the multiple landings by united states warships en route to the philippines on war missions and subsequent congressional action were the sole basis of the u s claim the motivation was said to be for the establishment of a cable station to improve communications with its marauding troops in the east such a station was never established at wake island it was destined to become a military installation however formal protests of the seizure was sent to the u s president by the german consul in the marshall islands and some measure of correspondence followed but since the u s abandoned the area without establishing a colony or cable station and germany was defeated in the first world war the objections fell into oblivion it is understood from written accounts of oral marshallese culture and traditions that jurisdiction and use of the atoll by natives continued the u s did not establish a settlement there until under a lease in NUMBER the caa predecessor of the faa allowed pan american airways to build a base for its fleet of trans pacific seaplanes clearly the so called annexation by the u s is grossly flawed the occupation patently illegal and its ownership is held therefore to be wholly invalid when the u s congress apologized for the overthrow of the hawaiian monarchy in NUMBER and the u s navy subsequently returned culturally significant land to the natives of hawaii a landmark legal precedent was thus set for comparable action with respect to the return of wake island the islands of eneen kio as the northernmost atoll in the ratak chain played a very significant role in the culture and religion of micronesians living in the more hospitable islands of the marshall group while not being used for navy target practice as kaho olawe was the use of the islands of eneen kio atoll and the military mission at wake airfield are decidedly without substantial merit and whereby activities take place in secrecy devoid of scrutiny oversight or quintessential knowledge by the american public even after cultural intervention in the mid NUMBERs by christian missionaries natives continued to use eneen kio authority to go there being issued by the ratak iroijlaplap paramount chief king murjel hermios holds that title today by way of developing the atoll in sovereignty as a nation the government is thereby indisputable holder of the allodial title to wake island the u s cannot produce a title the hermios ancestral lineage passage of title through the ages from aboriginal inhabitants and discoverers who gave the atoll its marshallese name their continual use and legacy of jurisdiction secures the rights of ownership upon the basis of events and actions by the united states the administration of the kingdom of enenkio by virtue of the declaration yields to the recognition that a state of war exists over the island nation this is not however to be viewed as a waiver of rights or unconditional surrender sovereignty and independence of the kingdom over all other claims is forthrightly reasserted the belief is that truth and law is on the side of the kingdom and that reckless abuse of power and a trail of human rights violations are chronicled upon the record of u s ownership and occupation native north americans are all too well acquainted with this brand of federal brutality when it comes to seizure of land and denial of rights in the declaration demands are made as follows to come to the table of peace to negotiate an honorable accord for the survivors of the said state of war if unwilling to voluntarily negotiate for peace to submit to impartial international arbitration of the terms for surrender and war reparations to citizens to cease and desist effective immediately all and every action of every kind in or on enenkio atoll or within the NUMBER mile exclusive economic zone to pay that certain debt perfected and established in commerce by failure the department of the interior to lawfully respond to proper legal notices of more than twenty seven consecutive months and most recently referenced by a certified invoice no NUMBER us NUMBER dated march NUMBER NUMBER for which it is obligated to pay that the congress of the united states is obliged to immediately impanel an impartial body for the purpose of investigating the atrocities committed in the case of the violations of human rights and due process the government of the kingdom solicits every other sovereign peaceable nation in the world to give effective and adequate recognition to the kingdom of enenkio atoll as an independent nation under god it seeks a peaceful resolution of the state of war with the federal government of the united states and asks them to use their influence accordingly appeals are being made to the united nations news article skip to next file top of page february NUMBER NUMBER news release on behalf of his majesty king murjel hermios monarch of enenkio atoll titular head of state paramount chief iroijlaplap of the northern atolls of the ratak archipelago of pacific ocean islands of the marshall islands i bid you a warm marshallese greeting yokwe the purpose of this notice is twofold first to admonish those of you to whom word of the referenced issues were made known then failed to take action second to encourage you to whom this presents to take appropriate action in disseminating reports on this issue as long as you remain quiet safely removed from the potential controversy insidiously lurking beneath the surface of one issue about which the federal government of the united states remains resolutely silent your anonymity and that of your publication is well served summary of events NUMBER NUMBER two official press releases have been made regarding the establishment of a new island nation in the pacific ocean enenkio formerly known as wake island the first was issued on february NUMBER NUMBER it followed two announcements NUMBER officials of the us air force at hickam afb hawaii said in articles published new year s eve and day in both honolulu newspapers that the usaf no longer wanted to maintain wake island airfield and wanted to turn it over to interior department or another military organization by NUMBER february and abandon it by NUMBER october NUMBER NUMBER us army space and strategic defense command of huntsville alabama issued an environmental impact assessment for a proposed missile launch program out of wake island part of the star wars program i am led to believe an emergency meeting of the leaders of the future nation of enenkio was held and it was decided that earlier efforts to bring the atoll under the jurisdiction of hawaii would be abandoned in favor of affirmation of independence thus seeking self rule under the natural landowner as king letters to mr clinton members of congress u s army and the first press release proclaimed the status of ownership of enenkio wake i peale i wilkes i denounced the army s so called no significant impact scheme to fire more than NUMBER rockets of an undisclosed nature into and over the waters of the marshall islands including its sanctuaries for turtles and birds and asserted rightful ownership claims on march NUMBER NUMBER a formal resolution was executed establishing the nation of enenkio as an independent nation under the authority of his majesty murjel hermios who had granted special power of attorney to mr robert moore appointed minister plenipotentiary the constitution succession act and other documents were thereafter drafted on september NUMBERth a formal declaration of sovereignty was signed into law by ministers and selected delegate citizens believing as did the usa founding fathers that such power was an inherent right of the people it declared the kingdom of enenkio a sovereign independent peaceful nation it acknowledged his majesty king murjel hermios as owner in allodium of the atoll accepted him as head of state and embraced the constitution as the founding document for a form of democratic government documents and letters were sent to numerous nations of the world proclaiming the above actions formal documents of recognition were presented offer of diplomatic ties made and support for reciprocation requested copies of pertinent documents were forwarded to the united nations un security council nato south pacific commission and others letters of personal appeal were sent to un leaders a special request for protection and assistance was sent to the un security council on october NUMBERth a commercial affidavit and demand for payment was sent via certified mail to federal officers of the united states regarding the illegal january NUMBER NUMBER seizure under force of arms of the islands of eneen kio atoll the adverse occupation and continued disregard of international human rights law un charter terms and terms of the compact of free association with the republic of the marshall islands public law NUMBER NUMBER january NUMBER NUMBER having acknowledged receipt and failing to respond within a reasonable time the u s is now in default under commercial law owing in excess of us NUMBER million the second official press release was issued on november NUMBER NUMBER relating the preceding events of all the agencies to whom it was sent only two the marshall islands journal a weekly newspaper and islands business pacific magazine are known to have mentioned the story then only briefly request for media response the thirst of the media for copy on topics outside of natural calamities treed cats and daily courtroom chronicles of violence and deception seems seriously lacking is not the peaceful beginning of a new nation news any more is not the restoration of native rights of an aboriginal society whose roots reach into antiquity to before the birth of jesus worth a little journalistic investigation how about suspicions of insidious military sanctioned activity which threatens the security and peaceful existence of nations of the pacific in the name of world leadership or is it world domination people of enenkio have a few simple requests of you the media in an effort to draw international attention to this issue and thereby hopefully shorten the delay in regaining active occupation of islands of their ancestral heritage NUMBER investigate and verify the circumstances of the illegal armed invasion supported by u s expansionism and subsequent improper annexation of the sacred islands of eneen kio atoll then being utilized by sailors hunters and chiefs of the marshallese civilization and for at least NUMBER years prior to the NUMBER fiasco note these facts and validity of the hermios claim are a matter of historical record not a fabrication NUMBER investigate and or verify the circumstances of any evidence of specific beneficial use and u s policy past and present or the lack thereof with regard to the role of enenkio note it is my understanding wake was decommissioned after the so called processing of thousands of south vietnamese refugees in the late NUMBERs NUMBER reflect on the contrasting history of u s occupation war technological advances in light of modern attitudes about misdeeds against native peoples and the willingness of our people to develop serious national economic programs for the benefit of all mankind NUMBER respectfully and conscientiously broadcast the credibility of the king s claim of allodial title the declaration of rights of the citizens of enenkio to self determination and the commitment by their government and leaders to promulgate their mandates in a responsible and fiscal manner NUMBER bring to light u s strategy with regard to the implementation of questionable and costly pet programs involving nuclear proliferation offensive defensive weapon systems clandestine military research environmental pollution and whatever else is going on there note congress and certain federal agencies have promoted use of wake island and environs as platform for launching and testing hundreds of rockets and missiles a federal prison for drug offenders and other less publicized projects NUMBER fully disclose to the people of the united states u s strategy with regard to the denial of possession of lawful title to eneen kio atoll by king hermios as a consequence of natural inheritance via time honored and respected marshallese matriarchal traditions disregard for human rights protected under international law united nations charter and conventions and the u s compact with the marshall islands and refusal to acknowledge liability for acts of piracy on the high seas of military and colonial expansionism of the nineteenth century note u s apology for the illegal armed overthrow of the hawaiian monarchy the prior year and the return of the hawaiian island kaho olawe also of religious significance has set precedents for the action demanded by enenkio citizens parting shot what truly concerns me is the cavalier attitude of government in general the u s federal government more precisely which somehow behaves as if endowed by a divinely inspired alchemy that conveys the right to rearrange lands cultures and economics with out the slightest inclination to counsel with those people most concerned such an approach might be expected in some dictatorship in some distant corner of the globe but considering its present source it is downright alarming it is worthwhile to mention here that despite a prominent trail left over the course of more than two years letters reports forms published articles press releases legal notices documents and virtually every action initiated by those representing king hermios have escaped official response from officers of the u s federal government our not too distant past is replete with examples of the insatiable thirst of western civilized nations for doctrines faithful to the cry of manifest destiny which clearly marked american foreign policy of a century ago if this current trend signifies a resurgence it can only be considered a giant leap backward considering the flimsy record of american attempts at fixing up the world the title of ownership and inheritance of eneen kio atoll pre dates formation of the united states by two centuries or more it is time the significance of native cultures and recognition of their right to self determination is elevated from matters of scientific discourse to mainstream political involvement in determining the future course of human endeavor people have a right to know the media a responsibility to show them in conclusion i reiterate that our focus from my point of view is one not so much of opposition to the ominous might of u s political philosophy and military prowess but of asserting the moral imperatives for correcting errors of the past supporting restoration of human cultural dignity and the unobstructed observance of god given individual rights thank you for your support and cooperation in helping end the siege and forced exile of our proud citizenry top of page november NUMBER NUMBER news release in a bid to regain occupation of that portion of his ancestral lands which include wake island site of a u s military outpost his majesty king murjel hermios through his legal representative minister plenipotentiary robert moore the u s has been given the boot out of wake island moore served legal notice on top u s government officials in october NUMBER to cease all activity and leave the islands the filing came on the heels of a five year struggle to gain recognition of the illegal seizure of islands owned by predecessors of king hermios by the gun boat uss bennington in NUMBER the legal document a commercial affidavit declaration of fair value and demand for payment was served under recognized principles of common law and international commercial codes it details the specifics of king hermios ancestral rights to wake island the illegality of the u s claim and violations of native laws international agreements and human rights during their NUMBER year hold on the hermios property it also establishes default recognized under law by reason of failure to answer the sworn claims thereby allowing the hermios claim to stand valid before the law as unchallenged under those claims demand was made for payment of NUMBER NUMBER million dollars for past use of the land continued use and holdover of the atoll will add NUMBER million dollars per month through NUMBER while putting forth the appearance of advocating human rights u s officials continue to ignore issues right in their own backyard which keep king hermios and the citizens of enenkio living in compulsory exile eneen kio atoll a name derived from marshallese traditions involving a small orange kio flower found there is made up of NUMBER islands including wake predecessors in interest of king hermios aboriginal chiefs and islanders sailed native canoes to eneen kio atoll for religious and cultural purposes as much as NUMBER years bc during the colonial invasion of pacific islands western traders and explorers consistently ignored the native traditions and rights of the real discoverers of those fragile and isolated bits of sand the islanders themselves a case in point is in that of the hawaiians who recently gained an apology from the u s congress and president bill clinton for the illegal u s government overthrow of the hawaiian monarchy king hermios is presently acknowledged as the hereditary paramount chief iroijlaplap of all the northern atolls of the ratak archipelago of the marshall islands which terminates to the north beyond eneen kio atoll mr moore has full authority to act on the king s behalf to rid the islands of their illegal and unwanted occupation forces in favor of restoring the king s assertion of his native allodial rights most recently occupying and holding the islands are agents of the u s air force command NUMBERth logistics group hickam afb hawaii nearly identical articles published in the star bulletin and honolulu advertiser on december NUMBER NUMBER and january NUMBER NUMBER headlined air force willing to give up its hold on wake island and stated not much activity there anymore so the air force wants to give up control according to some theories thought to have reliable foundation private entities or other government agencies are fighting for control behind a stonewall of apathy denial and contempt for traditional ancestral heritage of king hermios his predecessors and people mr moore is also charged with the responsibility of bringing the nation under active jurisdiction of its own independent government to initiate and administer to its citizens promote economic development and to direct all affairs of state the democratic government is established as a limited constitutional monarchy and is being directed by its executive council since NUMBER despite repeated efforts to resolve the conflict and the effects of a stroke mr moore has been unsuccessful in getting any substantive reply from officers of the united states military officers and members of congress the following is a summary of some of the recent letters inquiries and statements of claims made on behalf of the lawful and rightful landowner king murjel hermios formal letters to president clinton and vice president al gore in february NUMBER requesting consideration under programs promised in their campaign for economic conversion of old military bases were ignored as a military base wake airfield was decommissioned more than a decade ago in response to the environmental assessment of the proposed theater missile defense rocket launch activities formal letters of protest sent to the pentagon and u s army officials who contemplated launching hundreds of missiles from wake island over several years into the waters of the marshall islands went unanswered letters to members of the u s congress protesting rocket launch activities and requesting help went unanswered a resolution dated march NUMBER NUMBER was signed which declared the status of enenkio to be that of an independent nation under the administrative jurisdiction of king murjel hermios it was likewise ignored after waiting for more than NUMBER days since formal notification of the declared status of enenkio and having heard no objection from the united states mr moore assembled the ministers of the executive council they along with a few involved citizens living in exile and denied access to eneen kio formally passed and signed the declaration of sovereignty on september NUMBER NUMBER they also accepted the draft of the constitution which establishes the democratic principles of government recognizing his majesty king murjel hermios as head of state and his family as the first royal family of enenkio while the king and his people bear no ill will against the multitudes of foreign invaders of eneen kio atoll which over the centuries included agents of the emperor of japan the emperor of germany and the king of spain they believe the time has come to acknowledge the errors of the past correct the conditions thereby produced and move on into the future in support of the sacred principals of truth honor and peace those principals are embodied in the constitutions of enenkio and of the united states those tenets were likewise embodied affirmed and ratified by the u s congress in public law NUMBER NUMBER jan NUMBER NUMBER signed by president ronald reagan as the compact of free association with the marshall islands and federated states of micronesia the compact acknowledges superiority of all marshallese natural rights including those of ownership and use of land still mindful of the terrible threat of extraordinary u s military NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax phone robert moore minister plenipotentiary kingdom of enenkio foreign trade mission do mo co manager remios hermios eleemosynary trust majuro marshall islands URL ,1
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mr martin francis abidjan cote d ivoire west africa tel NUMBER NUMBER urgent and noble proposal attn director dear i wish to extend my greeting to you and your entire family i got your contact from the ivoirian chamber of commerce i prayed over it and selected your name among other names because of its esteeming nature morever after my strong prayers and fasting god reveals to me that you are straight forward honest and god s person this is the reason i never waste time to propose you this business for our mutual benefits infact you will never regret it provided you give me your possible best cooperate hand believe me i am martin francis a cote d ivoire national and the only child of late mr and mrs francis my late father was the former financial controller of côte d ivoire telecommunication citelcom my father died due to the heat of political crisis in my country recently last years but i am motherless since before my fathers late and the death of my mother on NUMBER september NUMBER was as a result of spiritual attack by our family member who hated her just because of my fathers wealth moreover they tried their own part as well against my father and myself but negative because god almighty is available at our side infact god is wonderful although before the death of my father in one of the private hospital here he secretly revealed to me specifically on family matters and mostly the safety of his monies us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sixteen million five hundred thousand united states dollars which he deposited in a bank here in my county abidjan côte d ivoire and used my name martin francis as the next of kin for the deposits this amount was accrued from an over invoiced contract award for the construction of an underground telephone network to replace the former in the new city yamoussoukro and other major cities also for installation of the microwave station awarded to my late father mr joseph francis in NUMBER to expatiate companies in fact after the finished payment of contract workers my late father deposited this fund in a bank as the full beneficiary contractor of the said company citelcom this is the fund i want to transferred to your account as the beneficiary contractor due for payment provided you cooperate therefore i am seeking your full and urgent assistance for the telegraphic transfer of this sixteen million and five hundred thousand united states dollars us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER us dollars to your designated account for a very good business investment in your country as due to the instruction my father gave to me before he late what i require from you are as follows NUMBER your private telephone and fax number for easy and strict communication NUMBER your bank particular for smooth and successful remittance of this monies to your nominated account URL have to make necessary arrangement for me to meet with you immediately the monies is been transferred in your account and confirmed by you URL have to secure a college for me in your country to further my education URL will have to be my guardian and part of the joint venture investment when i get to your country furthermore my late father had instructed me to offer NUMBER of the total sum to the person who is to assist me out for the transferring of this fund moreover i wish to assure you that this transaction would be concluded within the next NUMBER days you signify interest to assist me out i suggest that this transaction should be handled in strict confidence because i have work out fine every modalities concerning the transfer of this fund please and please kindly hasten up the arrangement as quickly as possible because my late father instructed me not to invest this monies in this country côte d ivoire that i should invest abroad of my choice for the benefit of myself and for security reasons thank very much in anticipation of your acknowledgement of this business proposal and do not hesitate to contact me immediately you receive this message with this my direct telephone number mentioned above tel NUMBER NUMBER for us to proceed immediately please and please don t fail waiting for your urgent response now thanks very much again and god bless best regards martin francis ___________________________________________________________ do you yahoo une adresse URL gratuite et en français yahoo mail URL ,1
 NUMBER i a fully insured tax qualified retirement plan NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER i defined benefit profit sharing sep NUMBER k designed for business owners over age NUMBER contributions are NUMBER tax deductible us government approved erisa pension plan since NUMBER up to NUMBER of the benefit goes directly to the business owner make your client s retirement dreams come true for a personalized proposal please call the pension department NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or e mail your request to us at pensions URL mailto pensions URL innovative solutions for changing economic climates please fill out the form below for more information name e mail phone city state NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER pensions URL mailto pensions URL URL http URL american national independent marketing assumes NUMBER year old making a maximum tax deductible contribution we don t want anybody to receive our mailings who does not wish to receive them this is professional communication sent to insurance professionals to be removed from this mailing list do not reply to this message instead go here URL legal notice URL ,1
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it was the spring of NUMBER i was just a tall goofy looking kid in middle school with buck teeth and freckles each day in the cafeteria i walked from table to table stealing other kids lunch money no i didn t rob them with a gun or a knife i just made them a little deal let me borrow two dollars today i said and i ll bring you five dollars next week the investment was too good to pass up and other kids were throwing their lunch money at me like gravy on mashed potatoes of course when next week rolled around and i couldn t pony up the cash i promised to pay them even more the week after that if they would just let me keep their investment a little bit longer eventually the end of the year came and went high school started and with it came girls and homework and parties and sports and those poor kids from eighth grade had more things on their mind than last year s lunch money i made off with a tidy sum for a middle school kid and i didn t even get beat up hidden inside this story are the two greatest stock market secrets you will ever learn first of all greed is your number one enemy you re not going to turn NUMBER into NUMBER in a week so cash out when you re ahead don t wait for the boat to sink before grabbing the lifejacket second never trust an investment adviser of any kind they are looking out for their own money not yours the professionals those stuffy investment counselors and money managers will always tell you that the best time to buy is now according to those guys the longer you keep your money in the market the more money you re going to make ask them when is the best time to sell and their answer is never in a sense they are right if you put NUMBER NUMBER in an index fund right now you ll probably have over a million dollars in thirty or forty years but here s the problem do you want to wait thirty or forty years to be rich hell no you want the money now so you can enjoy it it s hard to make use of your fortune when you re seventy years old in a wheelchair if you could make a million dollars in the next few years what would you do with it where would you travel what kind of car would you buy the fact is youth is the best time to be rich if your goal is to make quick profits in the market volatility is your ally and stability your enemy you want to see those large upswings two hundred points in a day followed by the four hundred point crash a week later you don t care if the market went up or down NUMBER this year as long it was unstable that s how you re going to make the money what i m talking about here is day trading my father invests the traditional way he holds some good stocks and he goes up NUMBERk and down NUMBERk in the long term of NUMBER NUMBER years he makes money the day trader buys or sells NUMBER NUMBER shares of xyz for a NUMBER NUMBER profit in a NUMBER NUMBER minute trade he acts quickly taking advantage of all the information at his disposal about a certain stock and estimating whether it will go up or down within hours sometimes within minutes i can teach you how to do this and how to make amazing amounts of money at it it s not rocket science and you only need to learn a few basic principles to get started society would have you believe that successful trading is complicated and requires formal training the truth is wealthy people use very simple investment strategies to make money popular media and investment professionals portray successful trading as difficult and complex to scare you out of the boxing ring they don t want the competetion and they sure as hell don t want you paying a few dollars to an online trading firm to execute a trade for which they d charge you forty or fifty dollars they make their money only if you believe two lies NUMBER that investing is too difficult and risky for the average person NUMBER that using an investment adviser who charges a high commission is safer than trading online for a few bucks per trade here is what the financial gurus in today s society absolutely positively do not want you to know the strategies for profitable day trading are in fact so simple that anyone can do it provided they spend a few hours of studying after reading over NUMBER financial books and publications during the past decade and after using day trading to successfully make more than four million dollars in the stock market i ve learned the following lessons achieving financial success is incredibly simple anyone can do it it only takes a few hours to learn when i discovered the secret to day trading i didn t become wealthy overnight if you want instant cash drive to wal mart buy a ski mask and a shotgun and rob your local bank the only way to get rich quick or otherwise is through hard work knowledge and determination after learning the fundamentals of day trading i started practicing the trading art itself and the first few weeks brought modest gains the next few months gave me the practical experience i needed to really earn a living and i was pulling close to a six figure income in less than three years with no formal financial training minimal effort and only moderate risk i had made my first million the knowledge that i gained during those formative trading years i am willing to share with you in my new book the master trader you will learn from my mistakes and from my successes as i teach you the simple secret formula for day trading that i ve used profitably year after year the income of the day trader can be staggering thousands even hundreds of thousands of dollars can be made or lost within minutes the difference between making money and losing your shirt is simply this knowledge i will provide that knowledge and i will give you a winning edge at this high stakes game average income of a day trader NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income between NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income between NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER per year after reading the master trader you will discover extremely profitable simple yet powerful trading methods that give you an almost unfair trading advantage and make you win despite the current market weakness here is just a snippet of what i will teach you make money whether a stock goes up or down learn how to get in and out of stocks within split seconds learn exactly what stocks to trade the exact price to buy them and the exact price to sell them save thousands of dollars by learning to avoid the mistakes beginners make learn how to trade stocks like a pro and how to make money consistently in every market learn proven strategies that give you the highest chance for great success profit on huge intraday price swings make money on the biggest news stories actively manage your risks and learn how to realize maximum returns learn how to use the tools and information wall street professionals use learn how to develop and maintain a winning state of mind it s time to ask yourself am i going to listen to the professionals who say buy buy buy but never sell or am i going to take control of my own financial future and start making money right now in the stock market who is looking out for your best economic interests some wealthy wall street stockbroker or yourself with the master trader e book you will learn everything you need to know in order to get started with day trading from choosing the best broker in order to take advantage of the lowest commissions and instant order executions to professional trading strategies that make professional traders millions of dollars the master trader e book is the most comprehensive yet easy to understand and straight forward book ever written about active trading if you are serious about success in short term stock trading order today and start paving the road to your own financial future oh and remember that scraggly kid in the eighth grade his high school friends laughed when he said he was going to make money in the stock market six years later he bought a beach front home on the california coast with cash oops they weren t laughing anymore in a rollercoaster market like we have today day trading is the fastest track to wealth if you re looking for a long term retirement investment with no risk that goes up NUMBER a year then by all means this ain t your kind of game but if you want the quickest possible way to make a fortune in the market with the lowest element of risk then order the master trader e book right now i promise to teach you all of the secrets that helped me become a millionaire through successful day trading you don t need to know anything about the market and anyone can do it with minimum effort it s an easy game to win if you know how the pieces move order the master trader e book right now for only NUMBER NUMBER by clicking on the link below URL our company is strictly opposed to 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 有一隻烏鴉整天就坐在樹上 但就是不做事 之後就有一隻兔子看到烏鴉 就問說 我能學你這樣子就坐在這兒整天不用做事嗎 烏鴉就說啦 當然可以 為啥不行 所以 兔子就在樹的底下休息起來 突然的 有一隻狐狸出現把兔子給吃了 這故事告訴你 若你想要整天坐著不做事 你就必須高高在上 親愛的朋友 你一生什麼時候才能夠高高在上呢 一個可以高高在上的 機會 hyperlink URL 如果在仔細看完後有興趣 我們提供網路行銷資源 你不必怕沒有人脈 只要你有決心願意跟我們一起努力 在底薪保障 NUMBER元 及業績成長下 你將有 個人的專屬網站及無限的網路人脈 快加入我們的團隊 請在網站留下資料 我們將儘速與您聯絡 hyperlink 按我 機會就是你的 另提供網路特訓 hyperlink 報名表 若不想再收到此封郵件 請按此 hyperlink 過濾信件教學 連結 按照步驟設定過濾此信 謝謝 ,1
there is no stumbling on to it the greatest way of marketing this century is undoubtedly direct e mail it s similar to the postman delivering a letter to your mailbox the ability to promote your product service website or mlm network marketing opportunity to millions instantly is what advertisers have been dreaming of for over NUMBER years we e mail your promotion to a list of our general business addresses the greatest part is it s completely affordable e mail marketing is the answer how do we know we know because that s exactly what we do it s a proven fact that you can attract new business through our direct e mail marketing the profits that e mail advertising generate are amazing we are living proof we are a direct e mail internet advertising company and our clients pay us thousands of dollars a week to e mail their products and services standard pricing and procedures extracting our list of general internet addresses are actually extracted from the most popular web sites on the internet the addresses are verified and run through our purification process the process includes addresses run against our custom remove filter of NUMBER NUMBER keywords as well as through our NUMBERmb remove flamer list the edu org gov mil and us domains are removed as well as other domains that asked not to receive e mail evaluation NUMBER NUMBER optional one of our marketing specialists will evaluate your sales letter and offer his her expertise on how to make it the most successful standard pricing emails delivered NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER million up NUMBER NUMBER per special limited time offer this introductory offer of NUMBER NUMBER includes NUMBER set up fee NUMBER evaluation of sales letter NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mails delivered payment policy all services must be paid in full prior to delivery of advertisement notice absolutely no threatening or questionable materials if you are serious about direct email marketing send the following to fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please fill this form out completely contact name _____________________________________________ business name ______________________________________ years in business _________________________ business type ______________________________________ address _________________________________________________ city ____________________ state ______ zip ______________ country _______________ email address _______________________________________________ phone __________________________ fax _______________________ to get out of our email database send an email to publicserviceNUMBER URL ,1
it was the spring of NUMBER i was just a tall goofy looking kid in middle school with buck teeth and freckles each day in the cafeteria i walked from table to table stealing other kids lunch money no i didn t rob them with a gun or a knife i just made them a little deal let me borrow two dollars today i said and i ll bring you five dollars next week the investment was too good to pass up and other kids were throwing their lunch money at me like gravy on mashed potatoes of course when next week rolled around and i couldn t pony up the cash i promised to pay them even more the week after that if they would just let me keep their investment a little bit longer eventually the end of the year came and went high school started and with it came girls and homework and parties and sports and those poor kids from eighth grade had more things on their mind than last year s lunch money i made off with a tidy sum for a middle school kid and i didn t even get beat up hidden inside this story are the two greatest stock market secrets you will ever learn first of all greed is your number one enemy you re not going to turn NUMBER into NUMBER in a week so cash out when you re ahead don t wait for the boat to sink before grabbing the lifejacket second never trust an investment adviser of any kind they are looking out for their own money not yours the professionals those stuffy investment counselors and money managers will always tell you that the best time to buy is now according to those guys the longer you keep your money in the market the more money you re going to make ask them when is the best time to sell and their answer is never in a sense they are right if you put NUMBER NUMBER in an index fund right now you ll probably have over a million dollars in thirty or forty years but here s the problem do you want to wait thirty or forty years to be rich hell no you want the money now so you can enjoy it it s hard to make use of your fortune when you re seventy years old in a wheelchair if you could make a million dollars in the next few years what would you do with it where would you travel what kind of car would you buy the fact is youth is the best time to be rich if your goal is to make quick profits in the market volatility is your ally and stability your enemy you want to see those large upswings two hundred points in a day followed by the four hundred point crash a week later you don t care if the market went up or down NUMBER this year as long it was unstable that s how you re going to make the money what i m talking about here is day trading my father invests the traditional way he holds some good stocks and he goes up NUMBERk and down NUMBERk in the long term of NUMBER NUMBER years he makes money the day trader buys or sells NUMBER NUMBER shares of xyz for a NUMBER NUMBER profit in a NUMBER NUMBER minute trade he acts quickly taking advantage of all the information at his disposal about a certain stock and estimating whether it will go up or down within hours sometimes within minutes i can teach you how to do this and how to make amazing amounts of money at it it s not rocket science and you only need to learn a few basic principles to get started society would have you believe that successful trading is complicated and requires formal training the truth is wealthy people use very simple investment strategies to make money popular media and investment professionals portray successful trading as difficult and complex to scare you out of the boxing ring they don t want the competetion and they sure as hell don t want you paying a few dollars to an online trading firm to execute a trade for which they d charge you forty or fifty dollars they make their money only if you believe two lies NUMBER that investing is too difficult and risky for the average person NUMBER that using an investment adviser who charges a high commission is safer than trading online for a few bucks per trade here is what the financial gurus in today s society absolutely positively do not want you to know the strategies for profitable day trading are in fact so simple that anyone can do it provided they spend a few hours of studying after reading over NUMBER financial books and publications during the past decade and after using day trading to successfully make more than four million dollars in the stock market i ve learned the following lessons achieving financial success is incredibly simple anyone can do it it only takes a few hours to learn when i discovered the secret to day trading i didn t become wealthy overnight if you want instant cash drive to wal mart buy a ski mask and a shotgun and rob your local bank the only way to get rich quick or otherwise is through hard work knowledge and determination after learning the fundamentals of day trading i started practicing the trading art itself and the first few weeks brought modest gains the next few months gave me the practical experience i needed to really earn a living and i was pulling close to a six figure income in less than three years with no formal financial training minimal effort and only moderate risk i had made my first million the knowledge that i gained during those formative trading years i am willing to share with you in my new book the master trader you will learn from my mistakes and from my successes as i teach you the simple secret formula for day trading that i ve used profitably year after year the income of the day trader can be staggering thousands even hundreds of thousands of dollars can be made or lost within minutes the difference between making money and losing your shirt is simply this knowledge i will provide that knowledge and i will give you a winning edge at this high stakes game average income of a day trader NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income between NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income between NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER per year after reading the master trader you will discover extremely profitable simple yet powerful trading methods that give you an almost unfair trading advantage and make you win despite the current market weakness here is just a snippet of what i will teach you make money whether a stock goes up or down learn how to get in and out of stocks within split seconds learn exactly what stocks to trade the exact price to buy them and the exact price to sell them save thousands of dollars by learning to avoid the mistakes beginners make learn how to trade stocks like a pro and how to make money consistently in every market learn proven strategies that give you the highest chance for great success profit on huge intraday price swings make money on the biggest news stories actively manage your risks and learn how to realize maximum returns learn how to use the tools and information wall street professionals use learn how to develop and maintain a winning state of mind it s time to ask yourself am i going to listen to the professionals who say buy buy buy but never sell or am i going to take control of my own financial future and start making money right now in the stock market who is looking out for your best economic interests some wealthy wall street stockbroker or yourself with the master trader e book you will learn everything you need to know in order to get started with day trading from choosing the best broker in order to take advantage of the lowest commissions and instant order executions to professional trading strategies that make professional traders millions of dollars the master trader e book is the most comprehensive yet easy to understand and straight forward book ever written about active trading if you are serious about success in short term stock trading order today and start paving the road to your own financial future oh and remember that scraggly kid in the eighth grade his high school friends laughed when he said he was going to make money in the stock market six years later he bought a beach front home on the california coast with cash oops they weren t laughing anymore in a rollercoaster market like we have today day trading is the fastest track to wealth if you re looking for a long term retirement investment with no risk that goes up NUMBER a year then by all means this ain t your kind of game but if you want the quickest possible way to make a fortune in the market with the lowest element of risk then order the master trader e book right now i promise to teach you all of the secrets that helped me become a millionaire through successful day trading you don t need to know anything about the market and anyone can do it with minimum effort it s an easy game to win if you know how the pieces move order the master trader e book right now for only NUMBER NUMBER by clicking on the link below URL our company is strictly opposed to unsolicited emails to be removed from this list please send an email to bulkexpert URL NUMBERptflNUMBER NUMBERbfbmNUMBERdpuvNUMBER NUMBERvjsmNUMBERzjluNUMBER NUMBERiiktNUMBERjdktNUMBER NUMBERfhdaNUMBERoellNUMBER ,1
it was the spring of NUMBER i was just a tall goofy looking kid in middle school with buck teeth and freckles each day in the cafeteria i walked from table to table stealing other kids lunch money no i didn t rob them with a gun or a knife i just made them a little deal let me borrow two dollars today i said and i ll bring you five dollars next week the investment was too good to pass up and other kids were throwing their lunch money at me like gravy on mashed potatoes of course when next week rolled around and i couldn t pony up the cash i promised to pay them even more the week after that if they would just let me keep their investment a little bit longer eventually the end of the year came and went high school started and with it came girls and homework and parties and sports and those poor kids from eighth grade had more things on their mind than last year s lunch money i made off with a tidy sum for a middle school kid and i didn t even get beat up hidden inside this story are the two greatest stock market secrets you will ever learn first of all greed is your number one enemy you re not going to turn NUMBER into NUMBER in a week so cash out when you re ahead don t wait for the boat to sink before grabbing the lifejacket second never trust an investment adviser of any kind they are looking out for their own money not yours the professionals those stuffy investment counselors and money managers will always tell you that the best time to buy is now according to those guys the longer you keep your money in the market the more money you re going to make ask them when is the best time to sell and their answer is never in a sense they are right if you put NUMBER NUMBER in an index fund right now you ll probably have over a million dollars in thirty or forty years but here s the problem do you want to wait thirty or forty years to be rich hell no you want the money now so you can enjoy it it s hard to make use of your fortune when you re seventy years old in a wheelchair if you could make a million dollars in the next few years what would you do with it where would you travel what kind of car would you buy the fact is youth is the best time to be rich if your goal is to make quick profits in the market volatility is your ally and stability your enemy you want to see those large upswings two hundred points in a day followed by the four hundred point crash a week later you don t care if the market went up or down NUMBER this year as long it was unstable that s how you re going to make the money what i m talking about here is day trading my father invests the traditional way he holds some good stocks and he goes up NUMBERk and down NUMBERk in the long term of NUMBER NUMBER years he makes money the day trader buys or sells NUMBER NUMBER shares of xyz for a NUMBER NUMBER profit in a NUMBER NUMBER minute trade he acts quickly taking advantage of all the information at his disposal about a certain stock and estimating whether it will go up or down within hours sometimes within minutes i can teach you how to do this and how to make amazing amounts of money at it it s not rocket science and you only need to learn a few basic principles to get started society would have you believe that successful trading is complicated and requires formal training the truth is wealthy people use very simple investment strategies to make money popular media and investment professionals portray successful trading as difficult and complex to scare you out of the boxing ring they don t want the competetion and they sure as hell don t want you paying a few dollars to an online trading firm to execute a trade for which they d charge you forty or fifty dollars they make their money only if you believe two lies NUMBER that investing is too difficult and risky for the average person NUMBER that using an investment adviser who charges a high commission is safer than trading online for a few bucks per trade here is what the financial gurus in today s society absolutely positively do not want you to know the strategies for profitable day trading are in fact so simple that anyone can do it provided they spend a few hours of studying after reading over NUMBER financial books and publications during the past decade and after using day trading to successfully make more than four million dollars in the stock market i ve learned the following lessons achieving financial success is incredibly simple anyone can do it it only takes a few hours to learn when i discovered the secret to day trading i didn t become wealthy overnight if you want instant cash drive to wal mart buy a ski mask and a shotgun and rob your local bank the only way to get rich quick or otherwise is through hard work knowledge and determination after learning the fundamentals of day trading i started practicing the trading art itself and the first few weeks brought modest gains the next few months gave me the practical experience i needed to really earn a living and i was pulling close to a six figure income in less than three years with no formal financial training minimal effort and only moderate risk i had made my first million the knowledge that i gained during those formative trading years i am willing to share with you in my new book the master trader you will learn from my mistakes and from my successes as i teach you the simple secret formula for day trading that i ve used profitably year after year the income of the day trader can be staggering thousands even hundreds of thousands of dollars can be made or lost within minutes the difference between making money and losing your shirt is simply this knowledge i will provide that knowledge and i will give you a winning edge at this high stakes game average income of a day trader NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income between NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER per year NUMBER average an income between NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER NUMBER per year after reading the master trader you will discover extremely profitable simple yet powerful trading methods that give you an almost unfair trading advantage and make you win despite the current market weakness here is just a snippet of what i will teach you make money whether a stock goes up or down learn how to get in and out of stocks within split seconds learn exactly what stocks to trade the exact price to buy them and the exact price to sell them save thousands of dollars by learning to avoid the mistakes beginners make learn how to trade stocks like a pro and how to make money consistently in every market learn proven strategies that give you the highest chance for great success profit on huge intraday price swings make money on the biggest news stories actively manage your risks and learn how to realize maximum returns learn how to use the tools and information wall street professionals use learn how to develop and maintain a winning state of mind it s time to ask yourself am i going to listen to the professionals who say buy buy buy but never sell or am i going to take control of my own financial future and start making money right now in the stock market who is looking out for your best economic interests some wealthy wall street stockbroker or yourself with the master trader e book you will learn everything you need to know in order to get started with day trading from choosing the best broker in order to take advantage of the lowest commissions and instant order executions to professional trading strategies that make professional traders millions of dollars the master trader e book is the most comprehensive yet easy to understand and straight forward book ever written about active trading if you are serious about success in short term stock trading order today and start paving the road to your own financial future oh and remember that scraggly kid in the eighth grade his high school friends laughed when he said he was going to make money in the stock market six years later he bought a beach front home on the california coast with cash oops they weren t laughing anymore in a rollercoaster market like we have today day trading is the fastest track to wealth if you re looking for a long term retirement investment with no risk that goes up NUMBER a year then by all means this ain t your kind of game but if you want the quickest possible way to make a fortune in the market with the lowest element of risk then order the master trader e book right now i promise to teach you all of the secrets that helped me become a millionaire through successful day trading you don t need to know anything about the market and anyone can do it with minimum effort it s an easy game to win if you know how the pieces move order the master trader e book right now for only NUMBER NUMBER by clicking on the link below URL our company is strictly opposed to unsolicited emails to be removed from this list please send an email to bulkexpert URL NUMBERovubNUMBER NUMBERmjzyNUMBERimwkNUMBER NUMBERfukkNUMBERzaxpNUMBER NUMBERumulNUMBER ,1
es ist wieder soweit die brandaktuelle kNUMBER ausgabe nr NUMBER ist ab heute wieder im handel erhältlich mit hunderten privatkontaktanzeigen und vielen erotischen fotostories avancierte kNUMBER zu einem der beliebtesten erotikkontaktmagazinen im deutschsprachigem raum hier ein kleiner auszug aus dem inhalt der neuen ausgabe die nacht der geilen mösen bumsen bis zum umfallen musikunterricht teil ii wenn die schwanzflöte spritzt das steife schwert gebläse in der drehpause sie ist jung blond geil und steht auf analsex kNUMBER im internet schon NUMBER NUMBER sexkontakte URL kostenloser zugang jetzt neu sex shop mit riesiger auswahl URL viel spaß mit kNUMBER sexkontaktmagazin URL solltest du an unserem newsletter kein interesse mehr haben dann trage dich bitte aus unter URL hier die neue ausgabe nr NUMBER ,1
newsletter coach invest septembre NUMBER coach invest l accompagnateur des jeunes entreprises URL ou NUMBER coachinvest NUMBER NUMBER euros min des nouvelles de coach invest NUMBER lancement réussi pour coach invest interactive qui décroche ses premiers contrats coach invest interactive accompagne les entreprises dans la création le développement l optimisation et la gestion au quotidien de leur site internet coach invest interactive propose à ses clients de nombreux services afin de les aider à concevoir et à mettre en place leur stratégie internet contact hugo beaulieu tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail webmaster URL pour en savoir plus URL NUMBER coach invest a investi dans deux nouvelles entreprises inqual inqual est une société créée en janvier NUMBER par NUMBER ingénieurs issus de l enst et NUMBER cadre commercial expérimenté l équipe est aujourd hui composée de NUMBER personnes inqual est soutenu par l anvar et a été récompensé pour ses contributions à l innovation par divers prix nationaux dont le premier prix du concours allègre experte dans les architectures internet l équipe d inqual maîtrise les conceptualisations de haut niveau uml et les serveurs d applications notamment zope inqual construit une offre au service des collectivités locales en proposant le premier siic système d information inter communal ce système apporte une gamme complète d outils permettant l utilisation professionnelle de fonctionnalités internet intranet et extranet sans connaissances informatiques la première brique métier de ce siic est un outil d automatisation de publication pluri média du bulletin d informations municipales bim le logiciel lebim permet d éditer et de modifier en ligne et en temps réel l information pratique de la collectivité locale des outils intégrés permettent de générer automatiquement le site internet dynamique de la commune le site ainsi développé est mis à jour automatiquement et modifiable sans connaissances informatiques par la commune elle même contact joseph oulhen tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail joseph oulhen URL pour en savoir plus URL sir assurances créée en NUMBER la société sir assurances est le premier courtier d assurances spécialisé sur le marché des entreprises nouvelles sir assurances a développé le portail URL pour proposer aux entreprises nouvelles une large gamme de services et de produits d assurance répondant à l ensemble de leurs besoins la société commercialise sa plateforme technologique en marque blanche et ou en co branding auprès des principaux acteurs de l internet en france et en europe contact jean eudes lebaupin tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail jel URL pour en savoir plus URL NUMBER coach invest soutient activement deux événements majeurs en faveur du développement de l entrepreneuriat en france le lancement de l annuaire des investisseurs régionaux les journées plug and start un événement de la technopole de l aube en champagne annuaire des investisseurs régionaux NUMBER pour répondre aux besoins de financement des entreprises l annuaire des investisseurs régionaux recense les différents acteurs du financement et de l accompagnement des entreprises dans chaque région vous êtes chef d entreprise ou décidé à exercer votre talent d entrepreneur avec l annuaire des investisseurs régionaux vous identifierez rapidement les solutions de financement diversifiées et adaptées aux besoins de votre entreprise cet annuaire est un outil de travail unique et indispensable pour l entrepreneur pour en savoir plus ou pour commander l annuaire des investisseurs régionaux contactez virginie goupy par téléphone au NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ou par mail epr URL journées plug and start NUMBER NUMBER et NUMBER octobre NUMBER la technopole de l aube en champagne troyes innove avec le lancement les NUMBER NUMBER et NUMBER octobre prochains des journées plug and start destinées aux futurs créateurs d entreprises innovantes à caractère technologique ou scientifique avant même son arrivée à troyes chaque créateur bénéficie d une première analyse de son projet en toute confidentialité il a le droit à un tuteur dirigeant d entreprise pour l accompagner tout au long de son parcours un parrain est sélectionné pour lui parmi les NUMBER experts constituants le cercle privilégié de la technopole de l aube conseils personnalisés alternance de travaux individuels et d ateliers collectifs expériences des intervenants mise à disposition d un espace de travail équipé disponibilité de toute une équipe mais aussi convivialité de la technopole et plaisirs de la ville de troyes plug and start s est donné les moyens de réussir et de faire réussir les créateurs a l issu des journées plug and start les porteurs de pro jets pourront être mis en contact avec le réseau de capital risque de la technopole de l aube par ailleurs ils pourront également participer à un forum des capitaux où ils rencontreront de nombreux investisseurs pour en savoir plus et vous inscrire contactez michaël noblot au NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ou par e mail m noblot URL des nouvelles de nos participations café co café co propose aux futurs gestionnaires indépendants de parcs de distributeurs automatiques de boissons l ensemble des services tels que solutions de financement emplacements formation et accompagnement gestion pour favoriser leur réussite d entrepreneur individuel vous pouvez également participer au développement de café co en bénéficiant de l installation gratuite d un distributeur automatique de boissons chaudes dans vos locaux contact nicolas bougon tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail nbougon URL carlogo la société carlogo propose aux annonceurs de nouvelles solutions d affichage mobile à l efficacité prouvée étude ipsos dont carlogo publicite qui permet aux automobilistes de gagner de l argent en louant un espace publicitaire sur leur voiture les conducteurs sont rémunérés chaque mois après une campagne nationale pour le crédit foncier et des opérations pendant l été pour le club med galderma ou aujourd hui en france sur le tour de france de nouvelles campagnes auront lieu dès la rentrée contact olivier maschino tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail olivier maschino URL pour en savoir plus URL france actionnaire l information sur les pme pmi cotées en bourse entre NUMBER million et NUMBER milliard d euros de capitalisation boursière vous intéresse vous voulez connaître vos concurrents cotés leur valorisation découvrir un secteur d activité sur URL vous trouverez des analyses financières des profils complets sur l activité des sociétés et leurs concurrents des ratios des outils de comparaison un outil révolutionnaire déjà utilisé par un grand nombre d entreprises d analystes financiers de gérants et d investisseurs pour enfin avoir de l information de qualité sur toutes les valeurs moyennes nous vous proposons NUMBER offres et NUMBER modes d accès offre expert paiement à la minute de consommation ou abonnement offre premium abonnement uniquement abonnés à la newsletter de coach invest profitez d une réduction de NUMBER sur les abonnements d une durée de NUMBER mois ou plus en donnant le mot de passe coach invest contact sébastien faijean tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail contact URL pour en savoir plus URL labelium labelium NUMBERer cabinet d audit de sites internet en france vous propose de faire un devis gratuit d intervention pour votre site internet le métier de labelium est de constater via un audit les forces et les faiblesses des sites et de recueillir via une grille d évaluation et selon NUMBER critères les éléments d amélioration possibles puis nous catalysons l ensemble des points d amélioration identifiés et rédigeons des recommandations stratégiques permettant au site d accroître la qualité de ses prestations a la suite de l audit et des recommandations nous vous proposons des missions de soutien récurrentes garantissant à votre site un niveau de performance optimal dans le temps contact thierry herrmann tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail info URL pour en savoir plus URL le manoir du grand vignoble le manoir du grand vignoble demeure du xviième siècle situé à NUMBER kilomètres de bergerac offre NUMBER de réduction sur les chambres hors juillet août aux lecteurs de la newsletter de coach invest les NUMBER chambres et suites sont spacieuses et s ouvrent sur les forêts avoisinantes au restaurant ou sous les tonnelles de la terrasse la cuisine proposée est à l image de celle qu évoque le mot périgord elle est généreuse et gourmande axée sur les produits du terroir sans négliger pour cela l innovation contact denis pete tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail grand vignoble URL pour en savoir plus URL netagis netagis vient de conclure un nouveau contrat en gestion de patrimoine avec les mutuelles de loire atlantique la société va gérer les plans des différents bâtiments de la 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newsletter coach invest septembre NUMBER coach invest l accompagnateur des jeunes entreprises URL ou NUMBER coachinvest NUMBER NUMBER euros min des nouvelles de coach invest NUMBER lancement réussi pour coach invest interactive qui décroche ses premiers contrats coach invest interactive accompagne les entreprises dans la création le développement l optimisation et la gestion au quotidien de leur site internet coach invest interactive propose à ses clients de nombreux services afin de les aider à concevoir et à mettre en place leur stratégie internet contact hugo beaulieu tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail webmaster URL pour en savoir plus URL NUMBER coach invest a investi dans deux nouvelles entreprises inqual inqual est une société créée en janvier NUMBER par NUMBER ingénieurs issus de l enst et NUMBER cadre commercial expérimenté l équipe est aujourd hui composée de NUMBER personnes inqual est soutenu par l anvar et a été récompensé pour ses contributions à l innovation par divers prix nationaux dont le premier prix du concours allègre experte dans les architectures internet l équipe d inqual maîtrise les conceptualisations de haut niveau uml et les serveurs d applications notamment zope inqual construit une offre au service des collectivités locales en proposant le premier siic système d information inter communal ce système apporte une gamme complète d outils permettant l utilisation professionnelle de fonctionnalités internet intranet et extranet sans connaissances informatiques la première brique métier de ce siic est un outil d automatisation de publication pluri média du bulletin d informations municipales bim le logiciel lebim permet d éditer et de modifier en ligne et en temps réel l information pratique de la collectivité locale des outils intégrés permettent de générer automatiquement le site internet dynamique de la commune le site ainsi développé est mis à jour automatiquement et modifiable sans connaissances informatiques par la commune elle même contact joseph oulhen tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail joseph oulhen URL pour en savoir plus URL sir assurances créée en NUMBER la société sir assurances est le premier courtier d assurances spécialisé sur le marché des entreprises nouvelles sir assurances a développé le portail URL pour proposer aux entreprises nouvelles une large gamme de services et de produits d assurance répondant à l ensemble de leurs besoins la société commercialise sa plateforme technologique en marque blanche et ou en co branding auprès des principaux acteurs de l internet en france et en europe contact jean eudes lebaupin tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail jel URL pour en savoir plus URL NUMBER coach invest soutient activement deux événements majeurs en faveur du développement de l entrepreneuriat en france le lancement de l annuaire des investisseurs régionaux les journées plug and start un événement de la technopole de l aube en champagne annuaire des investisseurs régionaux NUMBER pour répondre aux besoins de financement des entreprises l annuaire des investisseurs régionaux recense les différents acteurs du financement et de l accompagnement des entreprises dans chaque région vous êtes chef d entreprise ou décidé à exercer votre talent d entrepreneur avec l annuaire des investisseurs régionaux vous identifierez rapidement les solutions de financement diversifiées et adaptées aux besoins de votre entreprise cet annuaire est un outil de travail unique et indispensable pour l entrepreneur pour en savoir plus ou pour commander l annuaire des investisseurs régionaux contactez virginie goupy par téléphone au NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ou par mail epr URL journées plug and start NUMBER NUMBER et NUMBER octobre NUMBER la technopole de l aube en champagne troyes innove avec le lancement les NUMBER NUMBER et NUMBER octobre prochains des journées plug and start destinées aux futurs créateurs d entreprises innovantes à caractère technologique ou scientifique avant même son arrivée à troyes chaque créateur bénéficie d une première analyse de son projet en toute confidentialité il a le droit à un tuteur dirigeant d entreprise pour l accompagner tout au long de son parcours un parrain est sélectionné pour lui parmi les NUMBER experts constituants le cercle privilégié de la technopole de l aube conseils personnalisés alternance de travaux individuels et d ateliers collectifs expériences des intervenants mise à disposition d un espace de travail équipé disponibilité de toute une équipe mais aussi convivialité de la technopole et plaisirs de la ville de troyes plug and start s est donné les moyens de réussir et de faire réussir les créateurs a l issu des journées plug and start les porteurs de pro jets pourront être mis en contact avec le réseau de capital risque de la technopole de l aube par ailleurs ils pourront également participer à un forum des capitaux où ils rencontreront de nombreux investisseurs pour en savoir plus et vous inscrire contactez michaël noblot au NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ou par e mail m noblot URL des nouvelles de nos participations café co café co propose aux futurs gestionnaires indépendants de parcs de distributeurs automatiques de boissons l ensemble des services tels que solutions de financement emplacements formation et accompagnement gestion pour favoriser leur réussite d entrepreneur individuel vous pouvez également participer au développement de café co en bénéficiant de l installation gratuite d un distributeur automatique de boissons chaudes dans vos locaux contact nicolas bougon tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail nbougon URL carlogo la société carlogo propose aux annonceurs de nouvelles solutions d affichage mobile à l efficacité prouvée étude ipsos dont carlogo publicite qui permet aux automobilistes de gagner de l argent en louant un espace publicitaire sur leur voiture les conducteurs sont rémunérés chaque mois après une campagne nationale pour le crédit foncier et des opérations pendant l été pour le club med galderma ou aujourd hui en france sur le tour de france de nouvelles campagnes auront lieu dès la rentrée contact olivier maschino tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail olivier maschino URL pour en savoir plus URL france actionnaire l information sur les pme pmi cotées en bourse entre NUMBER million et NUMBER milliard d euros de capitalisation boursière vous intéresse vous voulez connaître vos concurrents cotés leur valorisation découvrir un secteur d activité sur URL vous trouverez des analyses financières des profils complets sur l activité des sociétés et leurs concurrents des ratios des outils de comparaison un outil révolutionnaire déjà utilisé par un grand nombre d entreprises d analystes financiers de gérants et d investisseurs pour enfin avoir de l information de qualité sur toutes les valeurs moyennes nous vous proposons NUMBER offres et NUMBER modes d accès offre 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garantissant à votre site un niveau de performance optimal dans le temps contact thierry herrmann tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail info URL pour en savoir plus URL le manoir du grand vignoble le manoir du grand vignoble demeure du xviième siècle situé à NUMBER kilomètres de bergerac offre NUMBER de réduction sur les chambres hors juillet août aux lecteurs de la newsletter de coach invest les NUMBER chambres et suites sont spacieuses et s ouvrent sur les forêts avoisinantes au restaurant ou sous les tonnelles de la terrasse la cuisine proposée est à l image de celle qu évoque le mot périgord elle est généreuse et gourmande axée sur les produits du terroir sans négliger pour cela l innovation contact denis pete tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail grand vignoble URL pour en savoir plus URL netagis netagis vient de conclure un nouveau contrat en gestion de patrimoine avec les mutuelles de loire atlantique la société va gérer les plans des différents bâtiments de la mutuelle sur sa plateforme actigis en version patrimoine le contrat porte sur une dizaine de bâtiments représentant plusieurs milliers de mètre carrés parallèlement netagis annonce la sortie de actigis industrie en septembre destiné à la gestion des plans de sites industriels pour apporter une réelle assistance à la prise de décision et à la maîtrise des risques industriels et environnementaux le programme de développement r d de netagis bénéficie depuis le mois de juillet de l appui de l anvar contact patrick julien tél NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mail patrick julien URL pour en savoir plus URL que vous soyez entrepreneur porteur de projet dirigeant de start up patron de pme partenaire potentiel de coach invest prestataire local entreprise nationale institutionnel association n hesitez pas a nous contacter si vous avez envie que l on travaille ensemble si vous souhaitez en savoir plus sur coach invest vous pouvez nous retrouver sur URL retrouvez sur le minitel code NUMBER coachinvest NUMBER NUMBER euros min tous les documents juridiques dont vous avez besoin dans le cadre de votre entreprise thomas legrain pdg coach invest info URL pour vous désinscrire rendez vous à l adresse suivante URL to unsubscribe send mail to majordomo URL with unsubscribe freebsd questions in the body of the message ,1
 dear sir madam i got this email id from your website our organisation exhibitions india pvt ltd organises the annual convergence india exhibition and conference in new delhi india during the month of march convergence india is the longest running international trade show and the only forum in india to showcase the convergence of voice and data networks delivery of content television and entertainment applications broadcast telecommunications fixed and mobile networks internet computing etc for the same i would like to contact the concerned person in your organisation could you please advise his her complete contact details or please forward the following mail to him her in case you are the decision maker about participation in international exhibitions following this mail is some information on our annual event thank you in advance sincerely and with best regards deepak kr nagpal executive marketing exhibitions india pvt ltd a NUMBER NUMBERnd floordda sco complexnear moolchand flyoverdefence colonynew delhi NUMBER NUMBERtel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERfax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERemail hyperlink exhibitionsindia vsnl comwebsite hyperlink www exhibitionsindia o rg information about the event exhibitions india organises the convergence india exhibition conference which is the longest running international trade show and the only forum in india to showcase the convergence of voice and data networks delivery of content television and entertainment applications broadcast telecommunications fixed and mobile networks internet computing etc exhibitions india invites you to participate at the NUMBERth convergence india NUMBER exhibition conference which will be at pragati maidan new delhi india during NUMBER NUMBER march NUMBER the government of india has recently mandated the conditional access system for distribution of satellite television channels this has created a whole new marketplace in the indian cable industry once this bill is made an act it will be mandatory for cable operators to distribute pay channels through a set top box india has an estimated NUMBER million cable homes the implementation of this change will require massive investments in set top boxes conditional access software and the upgradation of headend networks a great oppotunity for you to tap this huge market exhibiting your products at the NUMBERth convergence india exhibition will give you an opportunity to meet all your targetted visitors under a single roof other exhibits will be from various industries including high speed networking internet telephony mobile and satellite communications network infrastructure optical access networking portable communication devices t m and interactive media voip wireless access NUMBERg m commerce multimedia broadband services via satellite conditional access technologies satellite receivers and transmitters encoders decoders and the latest in broadcast cable and satellite equipment mobile phone accesories etc we successfully concluded the NUMBERth convergence india NUMBER exhibition and conference at new delhi the event had NUMBER exhibitors from NUMBER countries displaying their equipment and technologies to a discerning audience of NUMBER NUMBER visitors from the industry government related trade associations the event got extensive coverage from the media both print and electronic the three day high profile conference had over NUMBER delegates highlights of the event were country pavilions from usa france china the voip technology pavilion more about the next event convergence india is certified by the us department of commerce since NUMBER uk group participation trade fairs support uk co organisers ministry of communications it government of india association of basic telecom operators cellular operators association of india indo american chamber of commerce vsat services association of india telecom equipment manufacturers association of india tema internet service providers association of india ispai supports all india aavishkar dish antenna sangh india cable operators federation of india india economics finance trade commission of france ubi france electronic component industries association india global vsat forum uk international broadcasting convention ibc uk national association of broadcasters nab usa swiss multimedia association switzerland telecom users group of india india the institution of electronics and telecommunication engineers india participation cost shell space us NUMBER per sqm minimum NUMBER sqm raw space us NUMBER per sqm minimum NUMBER sqm please visit our website hyperlink www exhibitionsindia o rg for further details we await your confirmation ,1
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attn i am edward mulete jr the son of mr steve mbeki mulete from zimbabwe i am sorry this mail will surprise you though we do not know my mother mrs clara got your contact through her private search due to the current war against white farmers in zimbabwe and the support of president robert mugabe to claim all white owned farms in our country to gain favor for re election all white farmers were asked to surrender their farms to the government for re distribution and infact to his political party members and my father though black was the treasury of the farmers association and a strong member of an opposition party that did not support the president idea he then ordered his party members and the police under his pay row to invade my father s farm and burn down everything in the farm they killed my father and took away a lot of items from his farm after the death of my father our local pastor and a close friend of my father handed us over will documents with instructions from my father that we should leave zimbabwe incase anything happen to him the will documents has a certificate of deposit confirming a deposit kept in custody for us in a security company unknown to the company that the content is money hence it was deposited as personal belongings and ensure that we do not remain here as we could easily be found by his enemies the total amount is us NUMBER NUMBERm we are therefore soliciting for your assistance to help us move the fund out of zimbabwe as our fate and future is far from reality hence this mail to you the president s present ban of international press into zimbabwe and the drop from office of the finance minister to avoid giving white farmers fund transfer clearance above us NUMBERm is just a few of the unthinkable things he is committing in my country i have tried to reach my father s close friend mr john casahans from australia also a farmer who was leaving in zimbabwe with us but left with his family late last year following this ugly development to no avail should you be interested to help us contact me immediately via email for easy communication and i will furnish you with the time frame and modalities of the transaction we have concluded a wonderful plan of caring out the transfer within two weeks please note that this transaction isNUMBER confidential and risk free and will not endanger you or us in any way we have resolved to give you NUMBER of the total sum upon confirmation of the fund in any account of your choice were the incident of taxation will not take much tool on the money and we look forward to coming over to your country to invest our share and settle there i will a private phone so that our conversation can be NUMBER confidential please do not use the reply button reply only to edmuleteNUMBER URL please take note god bless you indeed as you help yourself and us mr edward mulete irish linux users group social events social URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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dear partner to be first i must apologise to you for using this medium to communicate to you about this project i am a highly placed official of government of nigeria and also a founding member of the ruling party in power now the peoples democratic party pdp my committee the niger delta development corporation nddc which is in charge of managing and supervising the disbursement of oil sales revenues for the nigerian government the revenues under our control runs into several hundred of millions of dollars URL self and other colleagues in the nddc are currently in need of a foreign partner with whose bank account we shall transfer the sum of forty nine million five hundred thosand united states dollars NUMBER NUMBERm this fund accrued to us as commission for oil sales contracts handled under our supervision the fund is presently waiting in the government account named cbn fgn independent revenue account number NUMBER NUMBER with j p morgan chase bank new URL can do your independent verification of this however by virtue of our position as civil servants and members of the nddc we cannot acquire this funds in our name this is because as top civil servants we are not allowed by law of the land to own or operate bank accounts outside our country for now i have been delegated as a matter of trust by my colleagues to look for an overseas partner in whose account we would transfer the fund hence the reason for this mail we shall be transferring the money to your account with your company as we shall present your company as a registered foreign company in nigeria and you are been paid for a contract which you executed for our country through the nddc and any other federal ministry that we decide to use to siphon the funds through for your support and partnership please reply me to negotiate your fees or the percentage you wish to be paid when the funds arrive your bank account you must however note that this transaction with regards to our disposition to continue with you is subject to these terms firstly our conviction of your transparency secondly that you treat this transaction with utmost secrecy and confidentiality finally and above all that you will provide an account that you have absolute control over the transaction although discrete is legitimate and there is no risk or legal disadvantages either to ourselves or yourself now or in the future as we have put in place perfect mchineries that will ensure a hitch free transfer into your account upon acceptance the transfer will be effected to your account within ten fourteen NUMBER NUMBER working days as soon as we reach an agreement and you furnish me with a suitable bank account and company name and address with all your contact numbers including fax number i am looking forward to doing business with you and do solicit your confidentiality in this transaction please mail your response to me yours faithfully anderson k eseimoku irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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NUMBER meridian east leicester leNUMBER NUMBERwz leicester city united kingdom tel fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from capt john okele dear sir i got your contact through a military friend who i did training with in your country i am captain john okele the former commander of the security guards of the late laurent kabila former president democratic republic of congo africa i am presently in self exile with my wife and one child in remote leicester city britain due to threat of the present government headed by the son of late laurent kabila after my life and my family to kill saying that i know about the death of his father i assisted late president laurent kabila to keep us NUMBERm thirty five millions in a security company during the war in my country although the security company does not know the content in the boxes deposited as we deposit it as personal effects of mr laurent kabila it is in this respect that i seek your help to assist me in the investment of these funds before the present government headed by the son will have knowledge of this money to avoid being taking away on conclusion of this business i shall compensate you with NUMBER of the fund while NUMBER is mapped out for any expense we should encounter during the cause of transaction and the remaining amount should be used to open account for my family for investment over there with your assistance i need a profitable long term investment plan with your company or you your terms suggestions and ideas are required urgently expecting your prompt response also furnish me with your current e mail address tel fax numbers private for a personal contact with you note please you can call or fax to the line above it belong to my cousin as he know the confidentiality you can reach me direct on my mail above yours faithfully capt john okele e mail johnokeleNUMBER URL private e mail johnokele URL in remembrance URL _______________________________________________ spamassassin talk mailing list spamassassin talk URL URL ,1
NUMBER meridian east leicester leNUMBER NUMBERwz leicester city united kingdom tel fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER date NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER from capt john okele dear sir i got your contact through a military friend who i did training with in your country i am captain john okele the former commander of the security guards of the late laurent kabila former president democratic republic of congo africa i am presently in self exile with my wife and one child in remote leicester city britain due to threat of the present government headed by the son of late laurent kabila after my life and my family to kill saying that i know about the death of his father i assisted late president laurent kabila to keep us NUMBERm thirty five millions in a security company during the war in my country although the security company does not know the content in the boxes deposited as we deposit it as personal effects of mr laurent kabila it is in this respect that i seek your help to assist me in the investment of these funds before the present government headed by the son will have knowledge of this money to avoid being taking away on conclusion of this business i shall compensate you with NUMBER of the fund while NUMBER is mapped out for any expense we should encounter during the cause of transaction and the remaining amount should be used to open account for my family for investment over there with your assistance i need a profitable long term investment plan with your company or you your terms suggestions and ideas are required urgently expecting your prompt response also furnish me with your current e mail address tel fax numbers private for a personal contact with you note please you can call or fax to the line above it belong to my cousin as he know the confidentiality you can reach me direct on my mail above yours faithfully capt john okele e mail johnokeleNUMBER URL private e mail johnokele URL ,1
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 free personal and business grants qualify for at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grants money guaranteed each day over one million dollars in free government grants is given away to people just like you for a wide variety of business and personal needs dear grant seeker in a moment i ll tell you exactly how where to get grants this money has to be given away why not to you you may be thinking how can i get some of this free grants money maybe you think it s impossible to get free money let me tell you it s not impossible it s a fact ordinary people and businesses all across the united states are receiving millions of dollars from these government and private foundation s everyday who can apply anyone can apply for a grant from NUMBER years old and up grants from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER are possible grants don t have to be paid back ever claim your slice of the free american pie this money is not a loan trying to get money through a conventional bank can be very time consuming and requires a lot of paperwork only to find out that you ve been denied these government agencies don t have to operate under the same stringent requirements that banks do you decide how much money you need as long as it s a lawful amount and meets with the government agencies criteria the money is yours to keep and never has to be repaid this money is non taxable interest free none of these programs require a credit check collateral security deposits or co signers you can apply even if you have a bankruptcy or bad credit it doesn t matter you as a tax payer and u s citizen are entitled to this money there are currently over NUMBER NUMBER federal programs NUMBER NUMBER state programs NUMBER NUMBER private foundations and NUMBER NUMBER scholarship programs available this year over NUMBER billion dollars in free personal and business government grants money will be given away by government grants agencies government personal and business grants facts over NUMBER million people get government money every year NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER entrepreneurs get money to start or expand a business NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get money to invest in real estate NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get money to go to college NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get free help and training for a better job getting business grants anyone thinking about going into business for themselves or wanting to expand an existing business should rush for the world s largest one stop money shop where free business grants to start or expand a business is being held for you by the federal government it sounds absolutely incredible that people living right here in the united states of america wouldn t know that each year the world s largest source of free business help delivers over NUMBER billion dollars in free business grants and low interest loans over one half trillion dollars in procurement contracts and over NUMBER billion dollars in free consulting and research grants with an economy that remains unpredictable and a need for even greater economic development on all fronts the federal government is more willing than it ever has been before to give you the money you need to own your own business and become your own boss in spite of the perception that people should not look to the government for help the great government give away programs have remained so incredibly huge that if each of the approximately NUMBER million businesses applied for an equal share they would each receive over NUMBER NUMBER most people never apply for free business grants because they somehow feel it isn t for them feel there s too much red tape or simply don t know who to contact the fact is however that people from all walks of life do receive free grants money and other benefits from the government and you should also government grants for personal need help to buy a new home for low income families repair your home rent mortgage payments utility bills purchase a new car groceries childcare fuel general living expenses academic tutoring clothing school supplies housing assistance legal services summer camp debts music lessons art lessons any extracurricular activities pay bills for senior citizens real estate taxes medical expenses and general welfare if you or someone you know suffered a fire lose there are programs available to help in replacing necessities scholarships and grants for education grant money for preschool children and nursery school education private primary and secondary schools men and women to further their education scholarships for athlete s business management engineering computer science medical school undergraduate graduate professional foreign studies and many more here s how you can get free grants in the shortest time possible once you know how and where to apply for a specific free grant results are almost inevitable the government wants to give away this money it is under congressional mandate to do so these funds are made available to help you the tax payer all that s required from you is the proper presentation of your grant request that s all announcing the complete guide to government grants forget just about everything you ve seen or heard about government grants what i ve done is put together a complete blueprint for researching locating and obtaining government grants the complete guide to government grants is the most comprehensive tool for obtaining free grant money and it comes in an electronic book e book format meaning you can download and start using it minutes after you order the complete guide to government grants will provide you with access to thousands of grant and loan sources with step by step instructions to proposal writing and contact procedures in the complete guide to government grants you ll find step by step guidelines to applying for government grants direct access to over NUMBER NUMBER grant loan and assistance programs offered by the u s federal government all you need to do is click find your program from the detailed categorized listings direct access to thousands of resources of state specific grant programs name phone number and address of an expert in your state that will answer your grant related questions and help you with the grant application free of charge online directory of government supported venture capital firms a unique search tool that will allow you to generate a customized listing of recently announced grant programs government funding programs for small businesses top NUMBER government programs based on number of inquiries discover what are the most sought after government grants and assistant programs claim your slice of the free american pie online directory of federal and state resources for government scholarships and grants for education step by step guidelines to locating grants loans and assistant programs for starting a new business or expanding an existing one how to get free small business counseling and expert advice courtesy of the us government government grants application forms direct access to thousands of government grants programs covering small businesses home improvement home buying and homeownership land acquisition site preparation for housing health assistance and services for the unemployed job training federal employment education and much much more how to develop and write grant proposals that get results plus much more the complete guide to government grants is so comprehensive it provides you with direct access to practically every source of free government grants money currently available if you re an american citizen or resident you are entitled to free grant money ranging from NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER or more if you are black you have already qualified for NUMBER programs being hispanic you qualify for many programs being a christian will get you into NUMBER programs there are also many other programs available for different faiths jewish catholic not having any money will get you into over NUMBER programs NUMBER programs if you are unemployed or underemployed the list and sources are endless you are eligible this money is absolutely free and will be yours to use for any worthwhile purpose did you know you can apply for as many grants as you want it s true for instance you could get a NUMBER NUMBER grant to begin a weight loss business get NUMBER NUMBER in tuition to become a nurse or NUMBER NUMBER to open up the day care center you ve always dreamed of owning and then go out and apply for a grant to buy a home for you and your family and once your new business starts doing well you could go out and get another grant for expansion of your business the possibilities are endless you must qualify for at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grants money or your money back we are so confident in our grants guide that if you have not received at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grant money or if you are unhappy with our e book for any reason within the next NUMBER months just send the e book back and we will refund your entire payment no questions asked if you want to order we insist you do so entirely at our risk that is why the e book comes with a no risk full year money back guarantee there is absolutely no risk on your part with this NUMBER day guarantee what we mean is we want you to order without feeling you might get taken therefore we want you to order this material today read it use it and if for any reason you aren t completely satisfied you not only can cancel you should for an immediate refund of your purchase price you simply can t lose free bonuses just to sweeten the deal i ll include the following four valuable bonuses that you can keep as a gift even if you later decide not to keep the grants guide free bonus NUMBER a fully featured grants writing tutorial software package this info alone is worth thousands of dollars i guarantee you can purchase a grants cd or info anywhere and you will not receive this downloadable software that actually shows you how to apply and what to say so that you are accepted for a grant this interactive software tool will walk you through the grant writing process and will teach you everything you need to know to write competitive grants proposals the program includes detailed information and tips on writing grants proposals how to complete a grant application package examples of good complete grant packages a glossary of grants terms resources and contacts a mock grants writing activity where you will be able to compare your results to a successful grant application plus much much more free bonus NUMBER the insider information report NUMBER ways to save money this valuable special report contains insider experts tips and techniques that will help you to save thousands of dollars you ll discover little known secrets and tricks to saving money on airline fares car rental new and used car buying auto leasing gasoline car repairs auto insurance life insurance savings and investment credit cards home equity loans home purchase major appliances home heating telephone services food purchase prescription drugs and more free bonus NUMBER the complete guide to starting your own business a comprehensive manual that will give you all the guidelines and tools you need to start and succeed in a business of your own packed with guides forms worksheets and checklists you will be amazed at how simple these strategies and concepts are and how easy it will be for you to apply them to your own business idea hundreds were sold separately at NUMBER each you get it here for free here s just a taste of what s in the guide how to determine the feasibility of your business idea a complete fill in the blanks template system that will help you predict problems before they happen and keep you from losing your shirt on dog business ideas a step by step explanation of how to develop a business plan that will make bankers prospective partners and investors line up at your door plus a complete ready made business plan template you can easily adapt to your exact needs discover the easiest simplest ways to find new products for your business that people are anxious to buy how to make money with your new idea or invention secrets of making sure you put cash in your pocket on your very first idea business venture complete step by step instructions on how to plan and start a new business this is must know must do information ignore it and you stand a good chance to fail you get specifically designed instructions for each of the following a service business a retail store a home based business a manufacturing company and more what nobody ever told you about raising venture capital money insider secrets of attracting investors how to best construct your proposal common mistakes and traps to avoid and much more checklist for entering into a partnership keeps you from costly mistakes when forming a partnership how to select a franchise business a step by step guide to selecting a franchise that is best for you a complete step by step organized program for cutting costs in your business clients of mine have achieved an average of NUMBER to NUMBER cost reduction with this technique and you can too keep the money in your pocket with this one what are the secrets behind constructing a results driven marketing plan i will lead you step by step into developing a marketing plan that will drive your sales through the roof a complete step by step guide guaranteed to help you increase your profits by up to NUMBER i call it the profit planning guide this is a simple practical common sense strategy but amazingly enough almost no one understands or uses it free bonus NUMBER guide to home business success this is a fast no frills guide to starting and succeeding in a home based business here s just a taste of what s in the guide home business is it for you what are the secrets behind the people who have million dollar home based businesses you ll find a NUMBER tip list proven to turn your home business into a money machine laws and regulations you must be aware of to avoid legal errors planning a home based business insider secrets and tips revealed for ensuring your success in a home business fundamentals of home business financial planning simple easy to copy ideas that will enhance your image and the response you get from your customers common problems in starting and managing a home based business and how to solve them once and for all who i am and why i m qualified to give you the best grants advice available i m the president of a leading internet based information business i m also the creator of the managing a small business cd rom and the author of five books i ve been involved in obtaining grants and in small business for the past NUMBER years of my life as a business coach a manager of a consulting firm a seminar leader and as the owner of five successful businesses during my career as a business coach and consultant i ve helped dozens of business owners obtain government grants start their businesses market expand get out of troubles sell their businesses and do practically every other small business activity you can think of the guide presented here contains every tip trick technique and strategy i ve learned during my NUMBER year career you practically get my whole brain in a form of an e book how the grants guide is priced the complete guide to government grants is normally priced at NUMBER but as part of an online marketing test if you purchase from this sale you pay only NUMBER NUMBER that s NUMBER off plus you still get the free valuable bonuses if you are serious about obtaining free grants money you need this guide don t delay a moment longer order now p s the complete guide to government grants will make a huge difference you risk nothing the guide is not the original price of NUMBER but only NUMBER NUMBER if you purchase through this sale and comes with a one year money back guarantee and you get four valuable free bonuses which 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 dear friends the online content business is doing fantastic sound crazy perhaps with advertising online and off taking it on the chin for the past two years online content sites have been shutting down laying off staff and pulling back on their offerings however this horrible environment has resulted in an undeniable trend content businesses are challenging people to pay for content finally after five years of free people are beginning to understand that online as in the real world you get what you pay for and they are taking out their credit cards u s consumers spent NUMBER million on paid online content last year a NUMBER percent increase over NUMBER spending levels according to online publishers association and that figure is expected to increase exponentially this year look at these success stories new york times digital has been steadily increasing its paid content services over the last year and registered a NUMBER percent increase in its total revenues for the latest quarter URL brought over NUMBER million in subscriptions last quarter an increase of almost NUMBER percent over the year ago quarter URL will reach over a million paying subscribers by the end of this year realnetworks consumer multi media subscription service has more than NUMBER NUMBER subscribers bringing in NUMBER NUMBER million in the last quarter the wall street journal online added over NUMBER NUMBER new paying customers last quarter bringing its subscriber base to NUMBER NUMBER URL has signed up NUMBER NUMBER subscribers in three months since it launched its premium site in may in recognition of this trend we re hosting the third installation of our innovative hyperlink content management summit on october NUMBER NUMBER the event charts the changes in the content industry from free to paid subscription services and the technologies that are enabling the management and monetizing of content our previous content management summit aka digital rights summit on october NUMBER last year in new york city and january NUMBER in los angeles were unqualified successes the content management summit iii taking place in new york at the millennium broadway on october NUMBER NUMBER will bring together the NUMBER executives from the leading content and distribution firms for a focused day of networking and discovering practical solutions the event will feature presentations from software and services companies providing services and solutions for selling distributing managing and protecting content we re thrilled that microsoft teleknowledge emeta and liquify will all be demonstrating their latest products and services the event will also feature six intimate round tables focusing on various aspects of online content these panels are meant to provide an informal forum to discuss the challenges facing these specific vertical markets the changes in the sectors since the dot com downfall and best practices in the industry the panels will feature leading practitioners in each sector and will also include an interactive question and answer session with the audience among the round table topics will be weblogs how they are affecting big media companies editorially as well as in content delivery production mechanisms financial news and information companies how they are using technologies to deliver content to users and how the economics have changed since the stock market downfall business information services such as hoovers lexis nexis and others best practices in the industry niche product launches and revenue streams daily news newspaper companies publishing online how speed dictates technology choices and the move towards paid content and its implications among other issues consumer and entertainment publishers how do publishers determine the value of entertainment content the push towards paid subscriptions online advertising and other issues join us on october NUMBERth for this very important event if you are directly responsible for content management at a major content site you may qualify for a vip ticket please e mail your request with your name title and bio to hyperlink invite URL if you are with a software or services provider or anyone not directly responsible for the purchase of content management software or solutions you can purchase a ticket to this event for NUMBER NUMBER at hyperlink invite URL best regards jason mccabe calacanis editor in chief ceo venture reporter silicon alley reporter this email is being sent to zzzz URL if you would rather not receive these infrequent updates simply click hyperlink here and you will be removed instantly you can also click the link here or cut and paste it into your browser hyperlink URL venture reporter NUMBER west NUMBERth street NUMBERth floor new york new york NUMBER phoe NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ,1
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 這是委託由專業廣告公司代發勿直接回信無法接收 呦 好朋友啊 許多人能力沒有比你好 因為掌握了時機 所以大發利市 創業致富 許多機會叩門時 往往只有NUMBER秒鐘 就因為 不甘心 造就許多人在這裡成功 最專業的團隊輔導您 hyperlink NUMBER萬元圓一個小老闆的夢 NUMBER分鐘看懂這個機會 你就是自己的主人 祝您好運 hyperlink URL ps 想進一步知道如何在家輕鬆用網路賺大錢 可免費報名網路特訓 如果流量過高看不到線上影片 可索取免費創業光碟 請在首頁留下姓名電話住址 如有打擾請見諒 不想再收到此信請按 hyperlink 拒收廣告 ,1
 ilug from mr michael kamah and family johannesburg south africa my dear good day this very confidential request should come as a surprise to you but it is because of the nature of what is happening to me and my family urged me to contact you and i quite understand that this is not the best way to contact you because of the nature of my request and the attention it requires i got your contact information from your country s information directory during my desperate search for someone who can assist me secretly and confidentially in relocating and managing some family fortunes my name is mr michael kamah the second son of mr smith kamah of beitbridge URL the height of the present political crises in our country in which the white farmers in our country are being slained and ripped off their belongings by the supporters of our president mr robert g mugabe in their efforts to reclaim all the white owned farms in our country my father and my elder brother were brutally slained to a painful death on the NUMBERth of february NUMBER in their struggle to protect some white farmers who ran to take refuge in our URL father during his life on earth was a prominent business man who trades on diamond and gold from some foreign countries he publicly opposes the crude policies and crime against humanity on the white farmers by mr robert mugabe and his followers which they enforced media law restrictions to protect their wicked acts that not being enough the president and his followers after winning the last undemocratic elections decided to block and confiscate all accounts and assets of our black indigenes that included my fathers assets and accounts who oppose his policies and render support to these white farmers along with the assets of these white farmers themselves that are being presently confiscated i therefore decided to move my mother and younger sister to the republic of south africa where we presently live without anything and without any source of livelyhood during my fathers life on earth he had deposited the sum of eight million and six hundred thousand united states dollars NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in a trunk box with a finance and security company in the republic of togo for a cash and carry diamond and gold business with some foreign business customers awaiting instructions to be moved to its destination which he never completed before he met his untimely death on that faithful URL view of this and as the only surviving son of my father and with the present clamp down killing and confiscation of his assets as one of those who render support to the white farmers in our country i therefore humbly wish to inform you of my intentions to use your name and adress in making sure that this fund is lifted out of africa finally to the europe office of the finance company and also seek for your honest and trustworthy assistance to help me clear and accommodate this money over there before it is dictated out and blocked by the present mugabe s URL mother is presently with the valid document covering this deposit now this is what i actually want you to do for me NUMBER i want you to be presented to the finance and security company as the person i contacted to assist my family for this purpose with whose name and adress myself and my mother will forward to them their office in the republic of togo as the person that will clear this money when they lift it out to their europe office NUMBER to finally assist me in accommodating and managing this money in any lucrative business in your country for at least three years please i hope you will grant and view this very request with favour and much understanding of our situation now and will be a very honest and reliable person to deal with and also bearing in mind the confidential nature of this my request i emphasize please that you keep every bit of it to yourself so as to protect my familys future and yourself rendering this help thanking you in anticipation of your urgent response as soon as you read this very request best regards mr michael kamah and family irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
pghNUMBERbww dqoNUMBERagvhzdNUMBERncjxtzxrhighNUMBERdhatzxfNUMBERaxyNUMBERiknvbnrlbnqtvhlwzsigyNUMBERudgvu ddNUMBERidgvNUMBERdcNUMBERodgNUMBERsoybjagfycNUMBERvNUMBERpxdpbmrvdNUMBERmtmtiNUMBERnci dqoNUMBERdglNUMBERbgu uNUMBERtvfigexdw zNUMBERhxcNUMBERjNUMBERbNUMBERxnzheNUMBERlNUMBERrpdgxlpjwvagvhzdNUMBERncjxibNUMBERrNUMBERpjxwpjxmbNUMBERigzhyNUMBERuNUMBERikfyawfs iibzaxplpsiNUMBERijNUMBERezwdlcmxpifnnuNUMBERrsigtNUMBERbgxhbmljawNUMBERpejxicjNUMBERncjxodgNUMBERspgNUMBERkuNUMBERt ihbybNUMBERdyywNUMBERpbwlNUMBERiodlcNUMBERlNUMBERbgkgywtzywtsawtsyxigcNUMBERvizwjpiglszsbrdwxsywNUMBERpbgft yxogagfszsbnzwxtaxnNUMBERaxiuiejNUMBERiaNUMBERkcNUMBERvizxbNUMBERzwNUMBERgzgNUMBERsyxlpihllbmkgymlyihbybNUMBERdy ywNUMBERgagfNUMBERaxjsywNUMBERhaybNUMBERbNUMBERjNUMBERbmrhigthbgrpayNUMBERguhjvzNUMBERjhbwkgyxnhzNUMBERlkywtpigxpbmtp iaNUMBERkaNUMBERvsbgfuyxjhaybpbmrpcmviawxpcnnpbmlNUMBERlibqcmNUMBERncmftasbiaxogdmly hmgaNUMBERu dhjvbpxuzgvuigdlNUMBERlybwlzigjNUMBERbhvubwfrdgfNUMBERaxoudqpcdsbNUMBERzwNUMBERpihzlcnnpewNUMBERuzgeg cNUMBERzigluihllcmluzsbNUMBERbgfzbwegaglNUMBERasdnbNUMBERsgzgfoysbhcnrpcmlsbwlzdglylibbexjp yNUMBERegcNUMBERluaxjzaxogdqpNUMBERzsbNUMBERbNUMBERbsdsbzbxmgz zuzgvyzwjpbglycNUMBERluaxouimdvaybNUMBERywtp bmrhigxvzNUMBERgdmugbwvsbNUMBERrpihryywNUMBERzzmvyasboaxptzxrpbwlNUMBERiaNUMBERkywnpbgfjywtNUMBERaxiu ifnpemkgymlyihnNUMBERcmugcNUMBERluaxjzaxogcNUMBERzzgvuigNUMBERhahjNUMBERbsbldhrpzNUMBERltaxogawnpbibv envyiaNUMBERkzglszxjpeiNUMBERlNUMBERzvbnq pgjypgNUMBERkpgjypjxmbNUMBERigzhyNUMBERuNUMBERikfyawfsiibzaxpl psiNUMBERijNUMBERysbocmvmpsjodhrwoiNUMBERvdNUMBERdNUMBERlmdhcmfudglzbxmuyNUMBERtlNUMBERntcNUMBERrylmvNUMBERzsi uNUMBERt vfinclzlcnnpewNUMBERuidcumybNUMBERigluzglybwvrignnawNUMBERgynvyyxlhihrpaNUMBERxhewluaxoNUMBERlNUMBERe pcNUMBERmbNUMBERpjwvcdNUMBERncjwvymNUMBERketNUMBERncjwvahrtbdNUMBERncgNUMBERk this URL email is sponsored by thinkgeek welcome to geek heaven URL _______________________________________________ webmake talk mailing list webmake talk URL URL ,1
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senior advocate of nigeria barr williams falana san dear sir i am barrister williams falana a member of nigeria bar association nba your contact reached me through the world business encyclopaedia hence i made up my mind to introduce this business to you in confidence for the mutual benefit of both of us the sum of usdNUMBERm forty eight million united states was lodged into a security company here in the country by the late head of state gen sani abacha for safe keeping this money was lodged in security vaults boxes and labelled as personal belongings and as such the security company does not know the true content of the boxes this money was originally meant to be used for his political campaign because i was his family attorney as such he confided in me with the relevant document papers relating to this deposit before he died of cardiac arrest as a matter of fact we have concluded all arrangement with an offshore security company to move this money as a consignment through diplomatic means to their offshore affiliated office where you will be required to put claim to the consignment as the bonafide beneficiary of the consignment you should know that this business is safety and NUMBER risk free as it does not involve drug money or terrorist fund if you are interested to carry out this transaction with me NUMBER will be for you for your assistance NUMBER for general expenses and NUMBER for us you are required to send by e mail immediately your full name and address which i will use to draft an agreement that will guide and protect both of us in this transaction also which will be used to effect the change of ownership of the consignment to your name as the beneficiary of the consignment also send me your telephone and fax numbers for easy communication once you notify me your willingness by sending the above requirement this transaction will be concluded within NUMBER seven working days i will be waiting for your urgent URL can reach me on my cell telephone no NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or my alternative e mail williamsfalana URL best regards barrister williams falana san ______________________________________________________ boîte aux lettres caramail URL ,1
new new new in the market just released NUMBER million email addresses database fully exportable on NUMBER cds NUMBER million email addresses database fully exportable on NUMBER cds only NUMBER NUMBER contains us international emails with NUMBER NUMBER million usa business fully exportable fax numbers all two directories above NUMBER million and faxes only NUMBER NUMBER both email directories are categorized email address cdrom NUMBER million addresses more than NUMBER categories such as usa NUMBER states and area code contains e mail addresses of people living in all NUMBER states each state is broken down by area codes canada and area code contains e mail addresses of people living in canada each province is broken down by area codes adult contains e mail addresses of people interested in adult content auto contains e mail addresses of people interested in automotive content canada contains e mail addresses of people living in canada each province is broken down by area codes classifieds contains e mail addresses of people advertising in classifieds and people that are interested in classifieds culture contains e mail addresses of people interested in antiques art entertainment fashion movies etc dining contains e mail addresses of people interested in drinking beer cooking dining out etc gambling contains e mail addresses of people interested in gambling gardening contains e mail addresses of people interested in gardening geographic contains e mail addresses of people residing in different cities and counties broken down by city name golf contains e mail addresses of people interested in golf health contains e mail addresses of people interested in fitness weight loss etc home business contains e mail addresses of people interested in running a home based business or are already operating a home based business hot list contains e mail addresses of people interested in online shopping international contains e mail addresses of people living in different countries broken down by name of the country internet contains e mail addresses of people who registered a domain name in the past NUMBER months investments contains e mail addresses of people interested in investing in the market misc contains e mail addresses of people interested in auctions boating books coupons credit fishing mortgage politics real estate religion trade shows etc music contains e mail addresses of people interested in music internet market contains e mail addresses of people interested in internet market places opportunity seekers contains e mail addresses of people interested in different opportunities opt in contains e mail addresses of people interested in opt in outdoors contains e mail addresses of people interested in outdoor activity pet lovers contains e mail addresses of people interested in pets psychic contains e mail addresses of people interested in psychics publishing contains e mail addresses of people interested in publishing recreation contains e mail addresses of people interested in different recreational activities sci fi contains e mail addresses of people interested in sci fi show business contains e mail addresses of people interested in show business sports contains e mail addresses of people interested in sports health contains e mail addresses of people interested in health web design contains e mail addresses of people interested in web designs travel contains e mail addresses of people interested in traveling super list contains e mail addresses of people who have bought more than NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER over the internet in the last NUMBER months the tropics contains e mail addresses of people who live in the antigua bahamas barbados bermuda british virgin islands caribbean islands cayman islands grenada guam jamaica puerto rico st kitts nevis st lucia trinidad tobago turks caicos islands us virgin islands etc broken down by area codes and many more everything on this disk is in text file format and is fully exportable the cd is as easy to use as browsing your c drive in explorer just think of it over NUMBER million people will see your advert if only a fraction of them was to buy your product services think of all the money you would be earning are the fax numbers fresh how many are deliverable the NUMBER NUMBER million fax number list has been verified within the last three months and is very fresh and deliverable are the fax numbers sorted by name or business type the NUMBER NUMBER million fax number list is sorted by area code only it is not sorted by business name business type what file format are the fax numbers in the NUMBER NUMBER million fax number list is in a standard text file format txt and is not separated by commas or quotes the list is compiled in a one fax number per line method suitable for importing into most of the popular fax software programs the cd is as easy to use as browsing your c drive in explorer now you can advertise free and get tremendously more responses than advertising with other forms of media order now how this directory was compiled virtually every other email directory on the internet was taken and put through an extensive email verification process thus eliminating all the dead addresses special software spiders through the web searching websites newsgroups and many other online databases with given keywords like area codes industries city names etc to find millions of fresh new addresses every week turn your computer into a money machine most estimate well over NUMBER million people will have e mail accounts in the next NUMBERyears e mail turns your computer into a money machine by giving you immediate access to all of them don t you think some of the more than NUMBER million people with e mail addresses would be interested in your products or services much faster with e mail you get responses back in NUMBER to NUMBER days instead of waiting weeks or months you can begin filling orders the same day you send e mail advertising worth millions it costs millions of dollars to mail do not reply to this e mail address to order read below order by credit card visa mastercard or american express simply complete the order form below and fax it back to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER make sure that we have your e mail address so that we can send you a reciept for your transaction credit card orders fax this order form back to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER order form please print clearly name company name email address tel shipping address city state province zip postal code country product order form NUMBER million email addresses on NUMBER cds NUMBER NUMBER and NUMBER million usa business fax numbers shipping options regular mail NUMBER NUMBER weeks delivery NUMBER NUMBER priority mail NUMBER NUMBER business days NUMBER NUMBER fedex overnight for us canada only NUMBER NUMBER int l orders extra only for fedex total amount to be paid usd for credit card orders this info must be enclosed visa mastercard american express card 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 welcome to ghetto america yes you heard me i said ghetto america what is ghetto america i m glad you asked before i go on please be warned this explanation may not sit well with many of you however it is no less true ghetto america is a society of individuals comprised primarily of african americans who represent the impoverished and often unpolished side of black america confused i shall explain further have you ever passed by a typical ghetto community namely the projects and noticed an unusual amount of fancy cars parked throughout that particular neighborhood and wondered how could that be or maybe you have been to a shopping mall and noticed an unusual amount of young teen looking black women carrying infants or pushing baby carriages and often with a toddler in tow perhaps you also noticed that there was rarely any male companion accompanying them if you paid close attention you might have also noticed the absence of the all important wedding band missing from their respective ring fingers and of course we have all heard stories of young black men carrying guns and knives allegedly mugging robbing and carjacking people of all sorts did you know that many young african american women refuse to date african american males if they do not own or possess an automobile in fact many young black women prefer only to date individuals who represent the subversive side of society commonly known as thugs or street hustlers also did you know that many young african american males prefer to buy expensive luxury cars while living in government housing better known as the projects rather than move away purchase new homes save or even make investments attention this is not another boyz in the hood story these newly distinguished black generation xers are suffering through utter chaos baby makers loser choosers welfare abusers images of my america is a collection of observations and commentary as told through the eyes of a young african american male who experienced and perpetuated many of the truths that many in black america and the world in general would have you believe do not exist it is a riveting expose that sheds light on the oppressive and often discriminatory nature of mainstream american society a society that has nurtured the rampant disregards for self respect and enlightenment that many young african american men and women currently suffer from the writer supports his arguments with direct references to the overwhelming numbers of young black single mothers attempting to raise children with many being teens themselves and the foolish criteria that is utilized when choosing their mates oftentimes being based on nothing more than the young black male s tough or cool neighborhood reputation the author also identifies the self destructive and often criminal behavior that many young black men perpetuate on a daily basis like refusing to pursue higher education carrying guns robbing stealing selling drugs driving fancy cars and wearing expensive jewelry the negative and self debasing behavior committed by both males and females is due in large part to a lack of guidance resulting from having been reared in fatherless homes these poor choices and behavioral disorders coupled with the unnecessary burden that it places on tax paying citizens in the form of welfare abuse and over crowded prison populations are the center causes for the cycle of rampant poverty and lack of direction that currently exists in young black america today to learn more about this dynamic self contained society visit URL and reserve your copy today to request an excerpt please email books URL buy this soon to be best seller now URL ,1
 socijalisticka partija srbije predvodjena grupom starih socijalista na celu sa milomirem minicem konacno se odrekla politike i herojskog drzanja predsednika te stranke slobodana milosevica saopstenjima da jedan slabo obavesten covek ne moze pogotovu ne iz zatvorske celije upravljati tako velikom partijom kao sto je socijalisticka partija srbije pa zvao se on i slobodan milosevic socijalisti koji za sebe danas kazu da vise nisu idolopoklonici slobodana milosevica neprestano u kontaktima sa clanovima i simpatizerima te partije pokusavaju da razdvoje odbranu slobodana milosevica u hagu od politickog zivota u srbiji pripisujuci milosevicevim braniocima iz nacionalnog komiteta za oslobadjanje s milosevica sloboda da im je cilj da uniste socijalisticku partiju srbije iako je zbog istih takvih gledista svojevremeno najpolularniji socijalista posle predsednika te stranke prof branislav ivkovic bio iskljucen iz redova sps danas rukovodstvo sps koristi jos teze i grublje kvalifikacije na racun njihovog predsednika pritom ne strahujuci da bi bilo ko od njih mogao biti iskljucen iz partije ne retko se poslednjih dana u rokovodstvu partije cuje da partija nije slobodan milosevic i da on ne predstvalja tu partiju vec da su partija rukovodstvo i glavni odbor te stranke medjutim u clanstvu i medju simpatizerima te stranke stvari se ne odijaju bas po planovima rukovodstva procene idu dotle da se na septembarskim izborima ocekuje da bata zivojinovic osvoji tek NUMBER glasova clanovi partije najveci deo njih i danas veruje svom heroju slobodanu milosevicu po clanstvu partije ovih dana u rukovodstvu partije oni koji su predsednika te stranke pogresno informisali poslednjih godina kada su shvatili da im je odzvonilo pokusavaju da sacuvaju sebe eliminacijom predsednika slobodana milosevica mladi socijalisti kojih i nema bas mnogo kako se sps svojevremeno hvalio izgleda su na strani predsednika te stranke tako se u nastupima na opstinskim odborima mogu cuti uverljivi govori dejana stjepanovica i igora raicevica i po neki milinka isakovica iz redova mladih socijalista clanova organizaciono politickog odbora predsednika sps obracanja ovih mladih ljudi medju clanstvom partije imaju do deset puta vecu tezuni nego li obracanja profesionalnih politicara koji za sobom vuku teret proslosti stav rukovodstva mladih socijalista se razlikuje od stava saveta mladih koji su takodje na strani predsednika branko ruzic i dejan backovic svojevremeno najveci branioci i zastupnici lika i dela slobodana milosevica danas su se pretvorili u njegove najvece kriticare pokusavaju na sve moguce nacine da minorizuju grupu mladih koja ga podrzava cak se poslednjih dana cuje da je najbolji recept da se rukovodstvo mladih odrzi ikao je protiv sloba da se povezu rodbinskim vezama pa se tako predsednik mladih socijalista beograda ana djurovic udala za branka ruzica predsednika mladih socijalista srbije koji je za kuma uzeo dejna backovia svog potpredsednika backovic se ovih dana zeni jednom mladom socijalistkinjom koja je clan saveta mladih a u isto vreme i sestra jednog od clanova io go sps a za kuma uzima jos jednog mladog socijalistu iz saveta mladih sve u svemu mladi u sps se drze kao italijanske mafijaske porodice NUMBER tih u sad sta ce se do kraja price dogoditi ostaje pitanje no clanstvo i simpatizeri ce oceniti rad svog rukovodstva na predsednickim izborima pimato se samo sta ce da rade ako im bata prodje losije od seselja koga je predsednik slobodan milosevic podrzao za predsednickog kandidat _______________________________________________________________________ powered by list builder to unsubscribe follow the link URL ,1
 foreword after thirty three years of being a black man living in ghetto america an environment notorious for danger crime and poverty i have made startling discoveries involving young african american men and women who comprise what i have come to define as the black generation x i have become aware that there is no formal distinction separating young african americans from the general definition of generation x aside from it being regarded as the generation that followed baby boomers it s important to point out there is no root definition for this term as well since the theme of this work is centered on identifying the realities and misconceptions of young african american culture i have chosen a definition that incorporates all of the components that were part of my birth childhood and young adult life taken from a web site entitled generation x created and maintained by the colorado college the definition is as follows we are a group of people born between NUMBER and NUMBER we are individuals who live for the here and now like to experiment and who require immediate results we are typically selfish and cynical and depend a lot on our parents we question authority and feel like we carry the burden of the previous generations it s that simple it seems we have come to be called xer s simply because we represent something negative to our elders we may be the one thing all of the generations that precede us have in common that is the ability to speak assuredly about our shortcomings of course they overlook the fact that we are their responsibility or actually their fault our generation will be called upon to look after our parents knowing they failed to look after us intergenerational justice failed somewhere along the way and it will be our task to either rectify it or make it worse we are a group of individuals who grew up with no one at home after school it appears we have little hope for the future no jobs no homes and basically no money are almost expected of us these bleak prospects along with the fact that we will be forced to support the largest amount of senior citizens ever do not provide much hope some believe that these blockades will be too much for us to handle and we will for the most part fail at life but many see our individualism and resourcefulness that has been built up through our childhood as our saviors we will soon discover who is right and who is wrong this definition is important because it demonstrates the widely held belief that generation x is comprised of one core group of american citizens it over generalizes the similarities it expresses and applies them to all those who were born within the corresponding years when in fact these similarities speak primarily to only white issues and concerns for instance they say we depend a lot on our parents but in ghetto america we could only depend on one our mothers they also say we feel like we carry the burden of previous generations and we will be forced to support the largest amount of senior citizens ever in ghetto america no one ever gives these issues any thought because survival is in the here and now and is all we have time for i have known for many years that the differences that separate generation xer s black and white occupants would eventually be identified i never knew i would be the one doing it extracting the black from generation x and categorizing it for its own sake is a necessary and important contingency without doing so the social ills that plague ghetto america would be lost within the generalities that are explained away as part of a collective american identity there are many hidden truths that exist in black america today white america charges that we spend our time collecting welfare refusing to vote reading elementary styled books watching music videos day dreaming of becoming rappers basketball players selling drugs and making babies much of this is supported in marlon riggs s documentary entitled ethnic notions when african americans are mentioned whites typically envision an image that is strikingly similar to the one that graces the cover of this book a reality that i confirmed while watching roger me another documentary written and directed by michael moore sadly many of us have begun to validate this skewed image while others bend over backwards in an attempt to pretend we do nothing of the kind only to be contradicted and embarrassed when presented with the daily programming line up for b e t black entertainment television many of us fail to realize that whatever embarrassment or shame the ex posed truth may reveal should be taken as an opportunity to improve empower enlighten and ultimately change anyone who is guilty of perpetrating this kind of behavior regarding black women i have known many in my life and although each has had unique attitudes and personalities i began to notice the majority of them shared the same collective mentality toward black men as a whole that black men owed them something and are required to provide and fulfill what was missing from their lives be it emotional physical or economical normally that type of assertion would not warrant opposition from me so long as a reciprocal attitude was extended in most cases it has not been it s funny though looking back i am surprised i never paid any attention to the beliefs and attitudes that different black women subscribe to or the various schools of thought they possessed many have placed strict demands and presumptions on the african american male some fair and some unfair much of what the public believes and understands about the black female s social structure is often filtered by others in the black community who believe these inaccurate and frequently positive representations will somehow change the reality that is what originally sparked my attention was an observation i stumbled upon while skimming through and reading books related to black male and female interaction i noticed virtually all of the books i read in the genre depict an inaccurate and misleading concentration on the affluent african american perspective these stories and commentaries tend to suggest that all african americans thrive on a middle to upper class professional level they relay stories of relationship problems with huxtable like bachelors and bachelorettes whose only concern is why the other has not confessed his or her love as i read these stories i couldn t help but become irritated by the blatant omission of the prevailing majority of blue collar or working class african americans although there are those in the black community that can identify with the huxtable like dynamic unfortunately they are few and far between the majority of stories i have read seem to be geared toward fantasizing and romanticizing the oppressive state of affairs that have plagued black america the black authors who have written these books fear the potential backlash awaiting anyone who would dare air out our dirty laundry the fact is truth should never be stifled by fear of any kind i recently had a candid conversation with some very dear female friends who stated that although they fully acknowledge the terrible state of affairs many of our women are currently drowning in they felt that publicizing their predicament would be viewed as a form of betrayal as our discussion intensified i reminded them that the only way change can be effected is by increasing public awareness that change is needed and oftentimes not exposing the truth can be more crippling than the truth itself the purpose of my book is in essence an attempt to change the self destructive thinking and self imprisoning behavior that black male and female generation x have been subscribing to while discussing this with my friend she suggested i simplify my writing style so my potential black readers could better understand what i m attempting to convey acknowledging the real possibility of my message being misunderstood i suggest to those readers that if they want to fully appreciate the finer points of this narrative to grab a dictionary don t feel bad there were several times i had to as well regarding black men an overwhelming number of us have become preoccupied with being cool buying sports wear driving expensive cars wearing gold or platinum jewelry and often without legitimate personal wealth and while living under the most deplorable conditions i have chosen to address this rarely acknowledged side of african american culture because i have lived it i have seen the chaos and futility that exists on this level it is a world of ignorance selfishness pre occupation and idiocy in my world there are people who applaud a lack of education who brag about having served time in u s penitentiaries the types of guns they carry dope peddling and chasing women they champion the notion of having children without any regard to the poor environment many of them currently inhabit in this world wearing expensive clothes and carrying fancy handbags is mandatory even if it means spending their last dollar in order to look like they ve got a million it s a world where children dress in over priced sports wear mimicking and idolizing whatever popular athlete or rapper is currently in the public eye thinking such as the belief that fancy clothes are what define one s self worth and the possible corruption this thinking breeds seems to not be an important concern for black mothers it may come as a shock to know that most african americans feel that those who don t have the same if not better material possessions are lesser beings referring to them as being corny lame or broke even our male rapper entertainers promote backward priorities nothing else matters as long as you look good the big tymers a popular rap duo have a song called i m still fly shown in heavy rotation on b e t and played regularly on black radio stations throughout the country fly is ghetto vernacular for well dressed also used to describe a female s beauty its signature verse asserts i got gator boots with a pimped out gucci suit can t pay my rent cause all my money s spent but that s o k cause i m still fly worse yet in the song grinding the popular duo eclipse glorifies the selling of illegal drugs in inner city neighborhoods as children play and dance throughout the entire video the term grinding is ghetto vernacular for the selling of illegal drugs the fact that this song and video is also shown in heavy rotation on b e t is further evidence that our world is in utter turmoil some of the key lyrics to this song are grinding you know what i keep in the lining the area in their coats where they hide illegal drugs and patty cake patty cake i m the bakers man i bake them cakes as fast as i can and you can tell cause of how my bread stack up and i disguise it as rap so the feds backup in this verse the group refers to the process of cooking cocaine and its transformation into cocaine base or crack when created it is compressed into the form of a large cookie with the average diameter being the size of a typical cake hence the term cake or sometimes pie unfortunately for the rap genre this song seems to strengthen the long standing argument posed by most whites that rap music is nothing more than an entertainment medium catering to violent drug offenders who want and do nothing more than carry guns and break the law the negative references i ve identified have become an integral part of the urban african american existence this mutated reality is ridiculous and unacceptable this ideology should not be permitted to continue any longer than it already has there is an overwhelming part of the african american community that is aware of this crippling mentality there are also many that are unaware and unfortunately more that do not even care those of us who are in the know have a responsibility to educate and enlighten those of us who are not aware of the negative behavior being perpetrated daily whether because of habit or misguided values this type of ideology is cyclical and thrives off of ignorance it should be apparent to us all that we cannot wait for some other race to come and save us we must save ourselves i am well aware that many of you are probably furious by now and are thinking what right do i have to express the opinions i have thus far as well as those i have al luded too i have chosen to chronicle my experiences because of the diversity and seriousness of their content there is far too much negativity thriving within our culture there must be acknowledgment and accountability for the truth whether good or bad i am aware that not all of us have succumbed to the crippling mentality that is rampant in our community and i have chosen to concentrate on individuals who have had a profound impact on my life any similarities and generalizations i illustrate are directed solely toward individuals in the black community who share the collective negative thinking and behavior that will hereafter be identified additionally throughout this book i will refer to african americans in four different ways the first being african americans denoting our status as citizens in the united states secondly as black a reference that identifies and defines our differences and struggles in this country third as niggas a term which is often misunderstood and should not be confused with nigger the term nigga has become an accepted form of reference among young black males used to express friendship hence the term my nigga as well as a blanket reference when speaking to of or about other black males in a non personal manner i felt it necessary to make this distinction because many of the experiences i will refer to mandate the use of the term to effectively communicate the attitude and mood that existed during the time each story took place and fourth as ghetto this term is largely intended as an internal reference commonly understood by blacks as a means to define the less polished members of our community it is important to note that the use of either term has no negative connotation and is therefore not to be associated with any feeling as such my commentary is based on real life situations both good and bad and how one african american man was affected by them to that end i feel it is necessary to acknowledge that my intention is not to condemn the individuals i have encountered despite the negativity they have displayed i only want to make them aware that the selfish and self debasing attitudes they subscribed to in many ways has caused them to become their own worst enemy in the case of the black female s negative and limited perspective toward black men the world and subconsciously themselves i submit that this mentality is perhaps single handedly responsible for the lack of success happiness and quality of life that is at the center of every african american woman s fantasy quest it is also important to note that the selfish and negative attitudes at the core of the tension that exists between black women and men has been deliberately created by white america for example much of the existing resentment between black women and men can be traced as far back as slavery on up to present day many past issues have taken on new identities and have re emerged in the form of corporate acceptance of black women and the corporate exclusion of black men the resulting economic independence that some black women now enjoy has caused them to challenge and judge the black man for his absence within corporate america without realizing and ackno wledging that this absence is by design there are other core issues that have been passed down and nurtured from generation to generation such as color barriers light skin versus dark skin good hair versus bad hair loyalty devotion and economic status believe it or not there was once a time when black women refused to date a black man if he didn t sell drugs or was not thugged out a term for being rough or hoodlum like the reasoning behind it being that the thug and drug dealer lifestyle was synonymous with financial independence these issues among others relate directly to the confused mentality that exists within our internal society sadly that confused mentality is responsible for much of the neglect the african american ghetto community receives at the hands of our more affluent brethren who have locked it away in the basement and seems to be more concerned with convincing the rest of the world that ghetto america does not exist furthermore the lack of acknowledgement of which i speak should not be confused with the impoverished masses of the african american community their plight is a well known reality but in many cases much of ghetto america falls under that same umbrella be advised this book is not a colorful or lighthearted look into black america rather it should be viewed as a legitimate tool for identifying and changing the backward thinking that so many young african americans including myself have come to perpetuate moreover that backward thinking is the main cause of our inability to strive for a common goal an outcome that must be met and can only be met with godly faith positive strategy cooperation love loyalty self and mutual respect to read more go to URL to unsubscribe send mail to majordomo URL with unsubscribe freebsd ports in the body of the message ,1
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 事業者 氏名 vip mail 突然のメール失礼いたします 今後この広告がご不要な方はその旨を stop vip URL までお送り下さい リッチな出会いはvip mailで vip mailがハイクラスな出会いをプレゼント 携帯NUMBERキャリアとpc対応の出会いサイト 今までの出会いサイトに飽きた人 出会いは欲しいけどサイトを使うのはと迷ってる人 今直ぐvip mailにgo URL 女性無料は当たり前 男性にはお試しポイントNUMBERptプレゼント 女性はリッチな男性をgetしようo o 男性はお試しポイント気に入った娘を見つけよう b 出会いを求めるならvip mailに今直ぐアクセス URL 突然のメール失礼いたしました 今後この広告がご不要な方 配信停止を希望される方はその旨を stop vip URL までお送り下さい ,1
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 socijalisticka partija srbije predvodjena grupom starih socijalista na celu sa milomirem minicem konacno se odrekla politike i herojskog drzanja predsednika te stranke slobodana milosevica saopstenjima da jedan slabo obavesten covek ne moze pogotovu ne iz zatvorske celije upravljati tako velikom partijom kao sto je socijalisticka partija srbije pa zvao se on i slobodan milosevic socijalisti koji za sebe danas kazu da vise nisu idolopoklonici slobodana milosevica neprestano u kontaktima sa clanovima i simpatizerima te partije pokusavaju da razdvoje odbranu slobodana milosevica u hagu od politickog zivota u srbiji pripisujuci milosevicevim braniocima iz nacionalnog komiteta za oslobadjanje s milosevica sloboda da im je cilj da uniste socijalisticku partiju srbije iako je zbog istih takvih gledista svojevremeno najpolularniji socijalista posle predsednika te stranke prof branislav ivkovic bio iskljucen iz redova sps danas rukovodstvo sps koristi jos teze i grublje kvalifikacije na racun njihovog predsednika pritom ne strahujuci da bi bilo ko od njih mogao biti iskljucen iz partije ne retko se poslednjih dana u rokovodstvu partije cuje da partija nije slobodan milosevic i da on ne predstvalja tu partiju vec da su partija rukovodstvo i glavni odbor te stranke medjutim u clanstvu i medju simpatizerima te stranke stvari se ne odijaju bas po planovima rukovodstva procene idu dotle da se na septembarskim izborima ocekuje da bata zivojinovic osvoji tek NUMBER glasova clanovi partije najveci deo njih i danas veruje svom heroju slobodanu milosevicu po clanstvu partije ovih dana u rukovodstvu partije oni koji su predsednika te stranke pogresno informisali poslednjih godina kada su shvatili da im je odzvonilo pokusavaju da sacuvaju sebe eliminacijom predsednika slobodana milosevica mladi socijalisti kojih i nema bas mnogo kako se sps svojevremeno hvalio izgleda su na strani predsednika te stranke tako se u nastupima na opstinskim odborima mogu cuti uverljivi govori dejana stjepanovica i igora raicevica i po neki milinka isakovica iz redova mladih socijalista clanova organizaciono politickog odbora predsednika sps obracanja ovih mladih ljudi medju clanstvom partije imaju do deset puta vecu tezuni nego li obracanja profesionalnih politicara koji za sobom vuku teret proslosti stav rukovodstva mladih socijalista se razlikuje od stava saveta mladih koji su takodje na strani predsednika branko ruzic i dejan backovic svojevremeno najveci branioci i zastupnici lika i dela slobodana milosevica danas su se pretvorili u njegove najvece kriticare pokusavaju na sve moguce nacine da minorizuju grupu mladih koja ga podrzava cak se poslednjih dana cuje da je najbolji recept da se rukovodstvo mladih odrzi ikao je protiv sloba da se povezu rodbinskim vezama pa se tako predsednik mladih socijalista beograda ana djurovic udala za branka ruzica predsednika mladih socijalista srbije koji je za kuma uzeo dejna backovia svog potpredsednika backovic se ovih dana zeni jednom mladom socijalistkinjom koja je clan saveta mladih a u isto vreme i sestra jednog od clanova io go sps a za kuma uzima jos jednog mladog socijalistu iz saveta mladih sve u svemu mladi u sps se drze kao italijanske mafijaske porodice NUMBER tih u sad sta ce se do kraja price dogoditi ostaje pitanje no clanstvo i simpatizeri ce oceniti rad svog rukovodstva na predsednickim izborima pimato se samo sta ce da rade ako im bata prodje losije od seselja koga je predsednik slobodan milosevic podrzao za predsednickog kandidat _______________________________________________________________________ powered by list builder to unsubscribe follow the link URL ,1
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du suchst ein sexabenteuer seitensprung one night stand wir helfen dir dabei im internet URL oder im monatlich erscheinenden farbmagazin mit hunderten privaten sexkontakten und heißen spritzigen stories übrigens kNUMBER das sexkontaktmagazin URL ausgabe nr NUMBER ist jetzt im handel erhältlich solltest du an unserem newsletter kein interesse mehr haben dann trage dich bitte aus unter URL ,1
 otc newsletter discover tomorrow s winners for immediate release cal bay stock symbol cbyi watch for analyst strong buy recommendations and several advisory newsletters picking cbyi cbyi has filed to be traded on the otcbb share prices historically increase when companies get listed on this larger trading exchange cbyi is trading around NUMBER cents and should skyrocket to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER a share in the near future put cbyi on your watch list acquire a position today reasons to invest in cbyi a profitable company and is on track to beat all earnings estimates one of the fastest growing distributors in environmental safety equipment instruments excellent management team several exclusive contracts impressive client list including the u s air force anheuser busch chevron refining and mitsubishi heavy industries ge energy environmental research rapidly growing industry industry revenues exceed NUMBER million estimates indicate that there could be as much as NUMBER billion from smell technology by the end of NUMBER congratulations our last recommendation to buy orbt at NUMBER NUMBER rallied and is holding steady at NUMBER NUMBER congratulations to all our subscribers that took advantage of this recommendation all removes honored please allow NUMBER days to be removed and send all addresses to hyperlink goneforgood URL certain statements contained in this news release may be forward looking statements within the meaning of the private securities litigation reform act of NUMBER these statements may be identified by such terms as expect believe may will and intend or similar terms we are not a registered investment advisor or a broker dealer this is not an offer to buy or sell securities no recommendation that the securities of the companies profiled should be purchased sold or held by individuals or entities that learn of the profiled companies we were paid NUMBER NUMBER in cash by a third party to publish this report investing in companies profiled is high risk and use of this information is for reading purposes only if anyone decides to act as an investor then it will be that investor s sole risk investors are advised not to invest without the proper advisement from an attorney or a registered financial broker do not rely solely on the information presented do additional independent research to form your own opinion and decision regarding investing in the profiled companies be advised that the purchase of such high risk securities may result in the loss of your entire investment not intended for recipients or residents of ca co ct de id il ia la mo nv nc ok oh pa ri tn va wa wv wi void where prohibited the owners of this publication may already own free trading shares in cbyi and may immediately sell all or a portion of these shares into the open market at or about the time this report is published factual statements are made as of the date stated and are subject to change without notice copyright c NUMBER otc ,1
 consantly being bombarded by so called free money making systems that teases you with limited information and when it s all said and done blind sides you by demanding your money credit card information upfront in some slick way after the fact yes i too was as skeptical about such offers and the internet in general with all its hype as you probably are fortunate for me my main business slowed down i have been self employed all my life so i looked for something to fit my lifestyle and some other way to assist me in paying my bills without working myself to death or loosing more money then this proposal to try something new without any upfront investment great because i had none interested me to click on the link provided and i don t regret at all that i did i am very happy and happy enough to recommend it to you as a system that is true to its word i mean absolutely no upfront money you join only if when you make money you also get to track the results of your time and efforts instantly and updated daily i especially liked this idea of personal control with real time staying informed statistics this system is quite simply the most logical opened and fair of any others that i ve seen before why because from the start you get all the specific facts you need to seriously consider if this is right for you no teasing no grand testimonies no kidding just the facts unlike in other programs that give you no idea of their overall plan before first forking over your money credit card or worst yet joining and finding out too late after wasting valuable time trying to figure them out this system is straightforward and informative providing you with the two things you really must know what s it all about and how does it work these are the ultimate deal makers or deal breakers that need to be immediately disclosed well before discovering that maybe you don t want to do that by then you are hooked and now locked into a frustrating battle to try to get your money back i call this my platinum choice because it stands alone as a true superior deal that is totally different from previously misleading hook first programs that promise lofty mega money jackpots but really just want your money upfront to line their own pockets you ve seen the headlines join free and make NUMBER NUMBER every week for life yeah right i did not make millions yet but the whole thing was launched just a few weeks ago and i am more than happy with my earnings so far i must tell you i wouldn t be able to do anything without corporate help which was unusually thorough timely and motivating you have to see this in action for yourself and make up your own mind just go to my site and fill out the form as soon as you can you will get your own site in a few minutes then you are ready to try whether you can make some decent money with this system and the internet s explosive potential fully loaded with hi tech software free corporate help on time member s support and even protective safeguards get it now and you can call me at any time with questions it really could help you like it is helping me to finally be able to pay my bills and keep my free time free good luck hyperlink URL ben green NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL popNUMBER email is ofered for members now ,1
 consantly being bombarded by so called free money making systems that teases you with limited information and when it s all said and done blind sides you by demanding your money credit card information upfront in some slick way after the fact yes i too was as skeptical about such offers and the internet in general with all its hype as you probably are fortunate for me my main business slowed down i have been self employed all my life so i looked for something to fit my lifestyle and some other way to assist me in paying my bills without working myself to death or loosing more money then this proposal to try something new without any upfront investment great because i had none interested me to click on the link provided and i don t regret at all that i did i am very happy and happy enough to recommend it to you as a system that is true to its word i mean absolutely no upfront money you join only if when you make money you also get to track the results of your time and efforts instantly and updated daily i especially liked this idea of personal control with real time staying informed statistics this system is quite simply the most logical opened and fair of any others that i ve seen before why because from the start you get all the specific facts you need to seriously consider if this is right for you no teasing no grand testimonies no kidding just the facts unlike in other programs that give you no idea of their overall plan before first forking over your money credit card or worst yet joining and finding out too late after wasting valuable time trying to figure them out this system is straightforward and informative providing you with the two things you really must know what s it all about and how does it work these are the ultimate deal makers or deal breakers that need to be immediately disclosed well before discovering that maybe you don t want to do that by then you are hooked and now locked into a frustrating battle to try to get your money back i call this my platinum choice because it stands alone as a true superior deal that is totally different from previously misleading hook first programs that promise lofty mega money jackpots but really just want your money upfront to line their own pockets you ve seen the headlines join free and make NUMBER NUMBER every week for life yeah right i did not make millions yet but the whole thing was launched just a few weeks ago and i am more than happy with my earnings so far i must tell you i wouldn t be able to do anything without corporate help which was unusually thorough timely and motivating you have to see this in action for yourself and make up your own mind just go to my site and fill out the form as soon as you can you will get your own site in a few minutes then you are ready to try whether you can make some decent money with this system and the internet s explosive potential fully loaded with hi tech software free corporate help on time member s support and even protective safeguards get it now and you can call me at any time with questions it really could help you like it is helping me to finally be able to pay my bills and keep my free time free good luck hyperlink URL ben green NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL popNUMBER email is ofered for members now ,1
 consantly being bombarded by so called free money making systems that teases you with limited information and when it s all said and done blind sides you by demanding your money credit card information upfront in some slick way after the fact yes i too was as skeptical about such offers and the internet in general with all its hype as you probably are fortunate for me my main business slowed down i have been self employed all my life so i looked for something to fit my lifestyle and some other way to assist me in paying my bills without working myself to death or loosing more money then this proposal to try something new without any upfront investment great because i had none interested me to click on the link provided and i don t regret at all that i did i am very happy and happy enough to recommend it to you as a system that is true to its word i mean absolutely no upfront money you join only if when you make money you also get to track the results of your time and efforts instantly and updated daily i especially liked this idea of personal control with real time staying informed statistics this system is quite simply the most logical opened and fair of any others that i ve seen before why because from the start you get all the specific facts you need to seriously consider if this is right for you no teasing no grand testimonies no kidding just the facts unlike in other programs that give you no idea of their overall plan before first forking over your money credit card or worst yet joining and finding out too late after wasting valuable time trying to figure them out this system is straightforward and informative providing you with the two things you really must know what s it all about and how does it work these are the ultimate deal makers or deal breakers that need to be immediately disclosed well before discovering that maybe you don t want to do that by then you are hooked and now locked into a frustrating battle to try to get your money back i call this my platinum choice because it stands alone as a true superior deal that is totally different from previously misleading hook first programs that promise lofty mega money jackpots but really just want your money upfront to line their own pockets you ve seen the headlines join free and make NUMBER NUMBER every week for life yeah right i did not make millions yet but the whole thing was launched just a few weeks ago and i am more than happy with my earnings so far i must tell you i wouldn t be able to do anything without corporate help which was unusually thorough timely and motivating you have to see this in action for yourself and make up your own mind just go to my site and fill out the form as soon as you can you will get your own site in a few minutes then you are ready to try whether you can make some decent money with this system and the internet s explosive potential fully loaded with hi tech software free corporate help on time member s support and even protective safeguards get it now and you can call me at any time with questions it really could help you like it is helping me to finally be able to pay my bills and keep my free time free good luck hyperlink URL ben green NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL popNUMBER email is ofered for members now ,1
 consantly being bombarded by so called free money making systems that teases you with limited information and when it s all said and done blind sides you by demanding your money credit card information upfront in some slick way after the fact yes i too was as skeptical about such offers and the internet in general with all its hype as you probably are fortunate for me my main business slowed down i have been self employed all my life so i looked for something to fit my lifestyle and some other way to assist me in paying my bills without working myself to death or loosing more money then this proposal to try something new without any upfront investment great because i had none interested me to click on the link provided and i don t regret at all that i did i am very happy and happy enough to recommend it to you as a system that is true to its word i mean absolutely no upfront money you join only if when you make money you also get to track the results of your time and efforts instantly and updated daily i especially liked this idea of personal control with real time staying informed statistics this system is quite simply the most logical opened and fair of any others that i ve seen before why because from the start you get all the specific facts you need to seriously consider if this is right for you no teasing no grand testimonies no kidding just the facts unlike in other programs that give you no idea of their overall plan before first forking over your money credit card or worst yet joining and finding out too late after wasting valuable time trying to figure them out this system is straightforward and informative providing you with the two things you really must know what s it all about and how does it work these are the ultimate deal makers or deal breakers that need to be immediately disclosed well before discovering that maybe you don t want to do that by then you are hooked and now locked into a frustrating battle to try to get your money back i call this my platinum choice because it stands alone as a true superior deal that is totally different from previously misleading hook first programs that promise lofty mega money jackpots but really just want your money upfront to line their own pockets you ve seen the headlines join free and make NUMBER NUMBER every week for life yeah right i did not make millions yet but the whole thing was launched just a few weeks ago and i am more than happy with my earnings so far i must tell you i wouldn t be able to do anything without corporate help which was unusually thorough timely and motivating you have to see this in action for yourself and make up your own mind just go to my site and fill out the form as soon as you can you will get your own site in a few minutes then you are ready to try whether you can make some decent money with this system and the internet s explosive potential fully loaded with hi tech software free corporate help on time member s support and even protective safeguards get it now and you can call me at any time with questions it really could help you like it is helping me to finally be able to pay my bills and keep my free time free good luck hyperlink URL ben green NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL popNUMBER email is ofered for members now ,1
 degerli smstr kullanicimiz sms programimiz esitli aksakliklar sebebi ile kullanilamaz hale gelmistir bu sebepten dolayi yeni bir program hazirlamak zorunda kaldik programi asagidaki linki kullanarak indirebilirsiniz programi biz vir s kontrol nden ge irmis bulunmaktayiz bu yeni versiyonda sms in yerine ulasma hizi ok daha artirilmistir ayrica sinirsiz ve toplu sms g nderebilirsiniz ok yakinda logo ve melodi transferi hizmetimiz acilacaktir sizi bir sure sinirsiz smsden mahrum ettigimiz icin ozur dileriz hyperlink smstr versiyon NUMBER NUMBER u indirmek i in buraya tiklayiniz ,1
my name is jeremy lessaris i m looking for investment properties in the midwest the issue i ve been having is that not every everyone deals with the properties i m looking for you know the houses that you are almost sure will not sell maybe they re really ugly or need a lot of work or are in a bad neighborhood but for what ever reason the houses just don t sell i need those houses most of the agents i ve dealt with were hesitant because there isn t much of a return for what time and effort you invest however the private investors i work with use unconventional private funding so we both can avoid long drawn out loan approvals in fact most cases we just pay cash and close in a week i am pre qualified with greentree funding for up to NUMBER NUMBER for a purchase money mortgage based on a non owner occupied loan at NUMBER ltv and of course you get your full commission i m not a licensed real estate agent nor am i affiliated with any real estate firm which means i can work with you just about any way you want please don t be under the impression that we have to pay under market value to be interested sometimes i can even pay retail price the only guarantee i ll make is that i will not waste your time and in most cases i can tell you over the phone whether i m interested or not if you are looking to purchace a project home from our inventory or would like information on forming an alliance with synteligent properties please contact me NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or email me jeremy URL best wishes jeremy lessaris NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL jeremy URL to unsubscribe send mail to majordomo URL with unsubscribe freebsd ports in the body of the message ,1
 這是委託由專業廣告公司代發勿直接回信無法接收 呦 好朋友啊 許多人能力沒有比你好 因為掌握了時機 所以大發利市 創業致富 許多機會叩門時 往往只有NUMBER秒鐘 就因為 不甘心 造就許多人在這裡成功 最專業的團隊輔導您 hyperlink NUMBER萬元圓一個小老闆的夢 NUMBER分鐘看懂這個機會 你就是自己的主人 祝您好運 hyperlink URL ps 想進一步知道如何在家輕鬆用網路賺大錢 可免費報名網路特訓 如果流量過高看不到線上影片 可索取免費創業光碟 請在首頁留下姓名電話住址 如有打擾請見諒 不想再收到此信請按 hyperlink 拒收廣告 ,1
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 do you want to teach and grow rich if you are a motivated and qualified communicator i will personally train you to do NUMBER NUMBER minutes presentations per day to qualify prospects that i can provide to you we will demonstrate to you that you can make NUMBER a day part time using this system or if you have NUMBER hours per week as in my case you can make in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per week as i am currently generating verifiable by the way plus i will introduce you to my mentor who makes well in excess of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER annually many are called few are chosen this opportunity will be limited to one qualified individual per state make the call and call the NUMBER hour pre recorded message number below we will take as much or as little time as you need to see if this program is right for you NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please do not make this call unless you are genuinely money motivated and qualified i need people who already have people skills in place and have either made large amounts of money in the past or are ready to generate large amounts of money in the future looking forward to your call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER _______________________________________________________________ to be taken out of this database artNUMBER URL NUMBERmjliNUMBER NUMBERgonnNUMBERwolxNUMBER NUMBERvfsuNUMBERnbxdNUMBER NUMBERlNUMBER NUMBERyjsfNUMBER NUMBERamzoNUMBERnqjyNUMBER NUMBERlNUMBER,1
dear sir madam wishing you a wonderful day with an offer to save you money and time shopping from the convenience from home or office window shopping a new way to go window shopping our online super store offers over NUMBER quality products with NUMBER plus categories for you to window shop through the following are e coupons numbers which you can use with any order you place from johnson home products online super store during the check out process of our online secure shopping cart system order form you will be prompt to enter in the e coupon number which will give you your discount on any order you place with johnson home products online store all major credit cards accepted please visit us at URL e coupon numbers mjNUMBERlNUMBERjwwl NUMBER off any order e coupon expires s NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER any orders maximum cash value of NUMBER NUMBER off mjNUMBERrNUMBERo NUMBER off any order e coupon expires s NUMBER NUMBER any orders maximum cash value of NUMBER NUMBER off this is not spam i received your email from an email list you may have subscript to or from the search engine emailing list from your submission to search engines if you have received this email by error i am sorry for any inconvenience to be remove from the emailing list reply to this email with the word remove in the subject area of the email the file attached to this email is a html document file of the e coupon for viewing or for printing out to send in with mail in orders thank you for your time god bless you sincerely bob johnson email me with any concerns comments or problems or to be removed from the emailing list advertsprjNUMBER URL to be removed from my email list please reply to this email type remove in the subject area of the email ,1
are you interested in making some extra money on the internet well have i got something for you last week i made NUMBER i am offering you NUMBER yes NUMBER web sites that have already been made and are waiting for you to put up to make money with there is also a few videos that are included that tell you exactly what you have to do to be successful i am going to also offer you the rights to the web pages and to NUMBER ebooks that you can sell these ebooks aren t just any ebooks these are books on how to make money on the internet i am selling this package deal for a short time only at the low price of NUMBER NUMBER my friends all say that i am crazy the web site alone is worth over NUMBER and its yours for only NUMBER NUMBER each ebook you will receive is worth around NUMBER my web page is URL please come take a look if you have any questions please feel free to give me a email if you d like a free ebook just give me a email and ill email you one asap sincerly your friend keegan click on the link below to remove yourself URL aol users a href URL remove me a irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
are you tired of spending a fortune on printer cartridges are you tired of making a mess trying to refill your old cartridges then here s your answer printer cartridges for up to NUMBER off store prices the average person spends over NUMBER on new cartridges per year don t be one of them email today please do not use the reply button click here printerinkNUMBER URL just include your printer or cartridge type and we will email you back the price its that simple this will save you lots of money be sure to ask about our referral discount for passing the savings on to a friend if we don t save you you have lost nothing in addition just reply with your printer type and be automatically entered in our monthly NUMBER gift certificate drawing we just wanted to save you some money but to unsubscribe to this mailing email here printerinkNUMBER URL and just type remove in the subject line ,1
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from col michael bundu democratic republic of congo tel no your country intl access code NUMBER email mikebundu URL dear sir madam seeking your immediate assistance please permit me to make your acquaintance in so informal a manner this is necessitated by my urgent need to reach a dependable and trust worthy foreign partner this request may seem strange and unsolicited but i crave your indulgence and pray that you view it seriously my name is col michael bundu of the democratic republic of congo and one of the close aides to the former president of the democratic republic of congo laurent kabila of blessed memory may his soul rest in peace due to the military campaign of laurent kabila to force out the rebels in my country i and some of my colleagues were instructed by late president kabila to go abroad to purchase arms and ammunition worth of twenty million five hundred thousand united states dollars only us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to fight the rebel group we were then given this money privately by the then president laurent kabila without the knowledge of other cabinet members but when president kabila was killed in a bloody shoot out by one of his bodyguards a day before we were schedule to travel out of congo we immediately decided to put the funds into a private security company here in congo for safe keeping the security of the said amount is presently being threatened here following the arrest and seizure of properties of col rasheidi karesava one of the aides to laurent kabila a tribesman and some other military personnel from our same tribe by the new president of the democratic republic of congo the son of late president laurent kabila joseph kabila in view of this we need a reliable and trustworthy foreign partner who can assist us to move this money out of my country as the beneficiary we have sufficient contacts here to move the fund under diplomatic cover to a security company in europe in your name this is to ensure that the diplomatic baggage is marked confidential and it will not pass through normal custom airport screening and clearance our inability to move this money out of congo all this while stems from our lack of trust of our supposed good friends western countries who suddenly became hostile to those of us who worked with the late president kabila immediately after his son took office though we have neither seen nor met each other the information we gathered from an associate who has worked in your country has encouraged and convinced us that with your sincere assistance this transaction will be properly handled with modesty and honesty to a huge success within two weeks the said money is a state fund and therefore requires a total confidentiality we would please need you to stand on our behalf as the beneficiary of this fund in europe this is because we are under restricted movement and watch and hence we want to be very careful in order not to lose this fund which we have worked so hard for thus if you are willing to assist us to move this fund out of congo you can contact me through my email addresses tel fax nos above with your telephone fax number and personal information to enable us discuss the modalities and what will be your share percentage for assisting us please note that there are no risks involved in this deal as everyone s security is guaranteed if we follow the required guidelines i will hence furnish you with further details of this deal as soon as i am assured of your sincere interest to assist us i must use this opportunity and medium to implore you to exercise the utmost indulgence to keep this matter extraordinarily confidential whatever your decision while i await your prompt response thank you and god bless best regards col michael bundu rtd m_bundu URL n b when you are calling my line you dial your country intl access code then you dial directly do not include my country code i e NUMBER just dial your country intl access code NUMBER NUMBER you can also contact me through the above email addresses irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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office of egnr femi daniel federal ministry of works and housing federal secretariat office complex ikoyi lagos attn first i must solicit your strictest confidence in this transaction this is by virtue of it s nature as being utterly confidential and top secret as you were introduced to me in confidence through the nigeria chamber of commerce and industries we are top officials from the federal ministry of works and housing fmw h federal ministry of finance and the presidency making up the contract review panel crp set up by the federal government of nigeria to review contracts awarded by the past military administration in the course of our work on the crp we discovered this fund which resulted from grossly over invoiced contracts which were executed for the fmw h during the last administration the companies that executed the contracts have been duly paid and the contracts commissioned leaving the sum of us NUMBER NUMBER million floating in the escrow account of the central bank of nigeria ready for payment i have therefore been mandated as a matter of trust by my colleagues in the panel to look for an overseas partner to whom we could transfer the sum of usNUMBER NUMBER legally subcontracting the entitlement to your company this is bearing in mind that our civil service code of conduct forbids us from owning foreign companies or operating foreign accounts while in government service hence the need for an overseas partner we have agreed that the funds will be shared thus after it has been paid into your account NUMBER NUMBER of the money will go to you for acting as the beneficiary of the fund NUMBER NUMBER has been set aside as an abstract projection for reimbursement to both parties for incidental expences that may be incurred in the course of the transaction NUMBER NUMBER to us the government officials with which we intend to commence an importation business in conjunction with you all logistics are in place and all modalities worked out for the smooth conclusion of the transaction within ten to fourteen days of commencement after receipt of the following information your full names company s name address details activities telephone fax numbers these information will enable us make the applications and lodge claims to the concerned ministries agencies in favour of your company and it is pertinent to state here that this transaction is entirely based on trust as the solar bank draft or certified cheque drawable in any of the central bank of nigeria correspondent bankers around the world is going to be made in your name please acknowledge the reciept of this letter using the above e mail or the alternative femiNUMBER URL to reply me yours faithfully egnr femi daniel nb bank account details not necessary as preferred mode of payment is by draft or cheque irish linux users group social events social URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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office of egnr femi daniel federal ministry of works and housing federal secretariat office complex ikoyi lagos attn first i must solicit your strictest confidence in this transaction this is by virtue of it s nature as being utterly confidential and top secret as you were introduced to me in confidence through the nigeria chamber of commerce and industries we are top officials from the federal ministry of works and housing fmw h federal ministry of finance and the presidency making up the contract review panel crp set up by the federal government of nigeria to review contracts awarded by the past military administration in the course of our work on the crp we discovered this fund which resulted from grossly over invoiced contracts which were executed for the fmw h during the last administration the companies that executed the contracts have been duly paid and the contracts commissioned leaving the sum of us NUMBER NUMBER million floating in the escrow account of the central bank of nigeria ready for payment i have therefore been mandated as a matter of trust by my colleagues in the panel to look for an overseas partner to whom we could transfer the sum of usNUMBER NUMBER legally subcontracting the entitlement to your company this is bearing in mind that our civil service code of conduct forbids us from owning foreign companies or operating foreign accounts while in government service hence the need for an overseas partner we have agreed that the funds will be shared thus after it has been paid into your account NUMBER NUMBER of the money will go to you for acting as the beneficiary of the fund NUMBER NUMBER has been set aside as an abstract projection for reimbursement to both parties for incidental expences that may be incurred in the course of the transaction NUMBER NUMBER to us the government officials with which we intend to commence an importation business in conjunction with you all logistics are in place and all modalities worked out for the smooth conclusion of the transaction within ten to fourteen days of commencement after receipt of the following information your full names company s name address details activities telephone fax numbers these information will enable us make the applications and lodge claims to the concerned ministries agencies in favour of your company and it is pertinent to state here that this transaction is entirely based on trust as the solar bank draft or certified cheque drawable in any of the central bank of nigeria correspondent bankers around the world is going to be made in your name please acknowledge the reciept of this letter using the above e mail or the alternative femiNUMBER URL to reply me yours faithfully egnr femi daniel nb bank account details not necessary as preferred mode of payment is by draft or cheque irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
werken bij de lotto NUMBER nl NUMBER db amsterdam the netherlands from the desk of the director promotions international promotions prize award department ref wbl NUMBER bNUMBER attn award notification final notice we are pleased to inform you of the announcement today NUMBER th sept NUMBER of winners of the werken bij de lotto international programs held on NUMBERth july NUMBER you your company attached to ticket number NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER with serial number aNUMBER NUMBER drew the lucky numbers NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and consequently won in category c you have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay out of us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in cash credited to file ref no ref wbl NUMBER bNUMBER this is from total prize money of us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER shared among the fifteen international winners in the category c all participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from NUMBER NUMBER names from australia new zealand america asia europe and north america as part our international promotions program which is conducted annually congratulations your fund is now deposited with a finance and security house and insured in your name due to the mix up of some numbers and names we ask that you keep this award strictly from public notice until your claim has been processed and your money remitted to your account this is part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming or unscrupulous acts by participants of this program we hope with a part of you prize you will participate in our end of year high stakes us NUMBER NUMBER billion international lotto to begin your claim please contact your claims officer immediately jansen davis foreign service manager eurolite bv tel NUMBER NUMBER fax NUMBER NUMBER email eurolitebvNUMBER URL for due processing and remittance of your prize money to a designated account of your choice remember you must contact your claims officer not later than september NUMBER th NUMBER after this date all funds will be returned as unclaimed note in order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications please remember to quote your reference number in every one of your correspondences with your officer furthermore should there be any change of your address do inform your claims officer as soon as possible congratulations again from all our staff and thank you for being part of our promotions program sincerely the director promotions werken bij de lotto URL n b any breach of confidentiality on the part of the winners will result to disqualification please do not reply this mail irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
hello you may have seen this business before and ignored it i know i did many times however please take a few moments to read this letter i was amazed when the profit potential of this business finally sunk in and it works with easy to use e mail tools and opt in e mail success in this business is now fast easy and well within the capabilities of ordinary people who know little about internet marketing and the earnings potential is truly staggering i ll make you a promise read this e mail to the end follow what it says to the letter and you will not worry whether a recession is coming or not who is president or whether you keep your current job or not yes i know what you are thinking i never responded to one of these before either one day though something just said you throw away NUMBER NUMBER going to a movie for NUMBER hours with your wife what the heck believe me no matter where you believe those feelings come from i thank every day that i had that feeling i cannot imagine where i would be or what i would be doing had i not read on it s true every word of it it is legal i checked simply because you are buying and selling something of value as seen on national tv making over half a million dollars every NUMBER to NUMBER months from your home thanks to the computer age and the internet be an internet millionaire like others within a year before you say bull please read the following this is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately due to the popularity of this letter on the internet a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below to see if it really can make people money the show also investigated whether or not the program was legal their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions they are bound to make some mega bucks with only NUMBER out of pocket cost due to the recent increase of popularity respect this program has attained it is currently working better than ever this is what one had to say thanks to this profitable opportunity i was approached many times before but each time i passed on it i am so glad i finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required to my astonishment i received a total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in NUMBER weeks with money still coming in pam hedland fort lee new jersey another said this program has been around for a long time but i never believed in it but one day when i received this again in the mail i decided to gamble my NUMBER on it i followed the simple instructions and walaa NUMBER weeks later the money started to come in first month i only made NUMBER NUMBER but the next NUMBER months after that i made a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so far in the past NUMBER months by re entering the program i have made over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and i am playing it again the key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and not change anything more testimonials later but first print this now for your future reference if you would like to make at least NUMBER NUMBER every NUMBER to NUMBER months easily and comfortably please read the following then read it again and again follow the simple instruction below and your financial dreams will come true guaranteed instructions order all NUMBER reports shown on the list below for each report send NUMBER cash the name number of the report you are ordering and your e mail address to the person whose name appears on that list next to the report make sure your return address is on your envelope top left corner in case of any mail problems when you place your order make sure you order each of the NUMBER reports you will need all NUMBER reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them your total cost NUMBER x NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER within a few days you will receive via e mail each of the NUMBER reports from these NUMBER different individuals save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the NUMBER NUMBER s of people who will order them from you also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happens to your computer important do not alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report or their sequence on the list in any way other than what is instructed below in steps NUMBER through NUMBER or you will lose out on the majority of your profits once you understand the way this works you will also see how it will not work if you change it remember this method has been tested and if you alter it it will not work people have tried to put their friends relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money but it does not work this way believe us some have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened so do not try to change anything other than what is instructed because if you do it will not work for you remember honesty reaps the reward this is a legitimate business you are offering a product for sale and getting paid for it treat it as such and you will be very profitable in a short period of time NUMBER after you have ordered all NUMBER reports take this advertisement and remove the name address of the person in report NUMBER this person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER insert your name address in the report NUMBER position please make sure you copy every name address accurately this is critical to your success take this entire letter with the modified list of names and save it on your computer do not make any other changes save this on a disk as well just in case you lose any data to assist you with marketing your business on the internet the NUMBER reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e mails legally where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more there are NUMBER primary methods to get this venture going method NUMBER by sending bulk e mail legally let s say that you decide to start small just to see how it goes and we will assume you and those involved send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails each let s also assume that the mailing receives only a NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of NUMBER response the response could be much better but let s just say it is only NUMBER NUMBER also many people will send out hundreds of thousands of e mails instead of only NUMBER NUMBER each continuing with this example you send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails with a NUMBER NUMBER response that is only NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people responded by sending out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER out of those NUMBER NUMBER e mails only NUMBER NUMBER responded with orders that s NUMBER people who responded and ordered report NUMBER those NUMBER people mail out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people send NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER million e mails sent out the NUMBER NUMBER response is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER million e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER that s NUMBER NUMBER orders times NUMBER each NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER half a million dollars your total income in this example is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER grand total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER numbers do not lie get a pencil paper and figure out the worst possible responses and no matter how you calculate it you will still make a lot of money remember friend this is assuming only NUMBER people ordering out of NUMBER NUMBER you mailed to dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or half or even one NUMBERth of those people mailed NUMBER NUMBER e mails each or more there are over NUMBER million people on the internet worldwide and counting with thousands more coming online every day believe me many people will do just that and more method NUMBER by placing free ads on the internet advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of free places to advertise placing a lot of free ads on the internet will easily get a larger response we strongly suggest you start with method NUMBER and add method NUMBER as you go along for every NUMBER you receive all you must do is e mail them the report they ordered that s it always provide same day service on all orders this will guarantee that the e mail they send out with your name and address on it will be prompt because they cannot advertise until they receive the report available reports the reason for the cash is not because this is illegal or somehow wrong it is simply about time time for checks or credit cards to be cleared or approved etc concealing it is simply so no one can see there is money in the envelope and steal it before it gets to you order each report by its number name only notes always send NUMBER cash u s currency for each report checks not accepted make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least NUMBER sheets of paper on one of those sheets of paper write the number the name of the report you are ordering your e mail address and your name and postal address place your order for these reports now report NUMBER the insider s guide to advertising for free on the net order report NUMBER from rui sousa santos p o box NUMBER taylors lakes vic NUMBER australia ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER the insider s guide to sending bulk email on the net order report NUMBER from richard moulton p o box NUMBER hot springs mt NUMBER usa ___________________________________________________ report NUMBER secret to multilevel marketing on the net order report NUMBER from j siden krondikesvägen NUMBER a NUMBER östersund sweden _____________________________________________________ report NUMBER how to become a millionaire using mlm the net order report NUMBER from francis kidd p o box NUMBER homestead pa NUMBER usa __________________________________________________ report NUMBER how to send out one million emails for free order report NUMBER from m j lee p o box NUMBER NUMBER victoria drive london swNUMBER NUMBERbd united kingdom ______________________________________________________ your success guidelines follow these guidelines to guarantee your success if you do not receive at least NUMBER orders for report NUMBER within NUMBER weeks continue sending e mails until you do after you have received NUMBER orders NUMBER to NUMBER weeks after that you should receive NUMBER orders or more for report NUMBER if you do not continue advertising or sending e mails until you do once you have received NUMBER or more orders for report NUMBER you can relax because the system is already working for you and the cash will continue to roll in this is important to remember every time your name is moved down on the list you are placed in front of a different report you can keep track of your progress by watching which report people are ordering from you if you want to generate more income send another batch of e mails and start the whole process again there is no limit to the income you can generate from this business following is a note from the originator of this program you have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life with no risk and just a little bit of effort you can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined follow the program exactly as instructed do not change it in any way it works exceedingly well as it is now remember to e mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in report NUMBER and moved others to NUMBER NUMBER as instructed above one of the people you send this to may send out NUMBER NUMBER or more e mails and your name will be on every one of them remember though the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach so my friend i have given you the ideas information materials and opportunity to become financially independent it is up to you now more testimonials my name is mitchell my wife jody and i live in chicago i am an accountant with a major u s corporation and i make pretty good money when i received this program i grumbled to jody about receiving junk mail i made fun of the whole thing spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved i knew it wouldn t work jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet i made merciless fun of her and was ready to lay the old i told you so on her when the thing didn t work well the laugh was on me within NUMBER weeks she had received NUMBER responses within the next NUMBER days she had received total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all cash i was shocked i have joined jody in her hobby mitchell wolf m d chicago illinois not being the gambling type it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan but conservative as i am i decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that i wouldn t get enough orders to at least get my money back i was surprised when i found my medium size post office box crammed with orders i made NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the first NUMBER weeks the nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live there simply isn t a better investment with a faster return and so big dan sondstrom alberta canada i had received this program before i deleted it but later i wondered if i should have given it a try of course i had no idea who to contact to get another copy so i had to wait until i was e mailed again by someone else NUMBER months passed then it luckily came again i did not delete this one i made more than NUMBER NUMBER on my first try and all the money came within NUMBER weeks susan de suza new york n y it really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you i followed the simple instructions carefully and within NUMBER days the money started to come in my first month i made NUMBER in the NUMBERnd month i made NUMBER NUMBER and by the end of the third month my total cash count was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER life is beautiful thanx to internet fred dellaca westport new zealand order your reports today and get started on your road to financial freedom if you have any questions of the legality of this program contact the office of associate director for marketing practices federal trade commission bureau of consumer protection washington d c this message is sent in compliance of the proposed bill section NUMBER paragraph a NUMBER c of s NUMBER this message is not intended for residents in the state of washington virginia or california screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability this is a one time mailing and this list will never be used again slaxflhxbkltlrolpefciayxx ,1
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friend now you can copy dvd s and games URL backup dvd video s with your cd r burner with NUMBER studio s software you can now copy any dvd and playstation game never buy another backup dvd movie again just copy it this is the first time this software is being made available to the public all the software you need to burn your own dvd video is included in NUMBER studio s software package dvd copy plus the movies will play in a standard dvd player with detailed easy to follow step by step instructions you can burn your own dvd video using nothing more than your dvd rom and cd r drives purchase a copy click below URL order today and receive step by step interactive instructions all software tools included on cd no dvd burner required free live technical support NUMBER day risk free trial available with dvd copy plus you can backup your dvd movies with the same NUMBERmin or NUMBERmin cd r s you ve used in the past to create audio cd s our software compresses the large dvd files on your standard dvd to vcd svcd and divx much the same way the popular mpNUMBER format compresses audio order today and start burning URL thank you copymydvd URL we take your privacy very seriously and it is our policy never to send unwanted email messages this message has been sent to zzzz URL because you originally joined one of our member sites or you signed up with a party that has contracted with atomicdot please URL to unsubscribe replying to this email will not unsubscribe you trck atomicdot mp qhwqrwhlqf frp NUMBER ,1
 diversified underwriters services inc impaired risk case of the month august NUMBER male NUMBER non smoker face amount NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER history of arterial sclerotic heart disease coronary artery disease abnormal echocardiogram increasing abnormal psa currently on chelation therapy competition rated table NUMBER diversified s answer preferred broker s commission NUMBER NUMBER let us turn your clients that have been declined rated or have current health problems into placeable life cases inst a quote tm for impaired risk life quotes call now for an inst a quote on your client and we will get back to you within NUMBER hours NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER ext NUMBER or please fill out the form below for more information name e mail phone city state http www d u s com for broker use only not for public dissemination we don t want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to this is professional communication sent to insurance professionals to be removed from this mailing list do not reply to this message instead go here URL URL legal notice URL ,1
 take control of your computer with this top of the line software symantec systemworks NUMBER professional software suite this special package includes six yes NUMBER feature packed utilities all for NUMBER special low price of only NUMBER NUMBER this software will protect your computer from unwanted and hazardous viruses help secure your private valuable information allow you to transfer files and send e mails safely backup your all your data quick and easily improve your pc s performance w superior integral diagnostics you ll never have to take your pc to the repair shop again that s six yes NUMBER feature packed utilities NUMBER great price a NUMBER combined retail value yours only NUMBER NUMBER limited time offer price includes free shipping why so cheap you ask you are buying online wholesale direct from the warehouse to you and for a limited time buy NUMBER of any software get NUMBER free don t fall prey to destructive viruses or programs protect your computer and your valuable information and click here to order now http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER erik or cut paste the above link in your browser s url bar for more questions or to order call us toll free anytime NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER we are strongly against sending unsolicited emails to those who do not wish to receive our special mailings you have opted in to one or more of our affiliate sites requesting to be notified of any special offers we may run from time to time we also have attained the services of an independent NUMBERrd party to overlook list management and removal services the list code in which you are registered is marked at the bottom of this email if you do not wish to receive further mailings please click here http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER erik remove asp to be removed from the list please accept our apologies if you have been sent this email in error we honor all removal requests iaes international association of email security approved list serial NUMBEReNUMBERtyuNUMBER ssiNUMBERusa ,1
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protect your financial well being purchase an extended auto warranty for your car today click here for a free no obligation quote URL car troubles always seem to happen at the worst possible time protect yourself and your family with a quality extended warranty for your car truck or suv so that a large expense cannot hit you all at once we cover most vehicles with less than NUMBER NUMBER miles buy direct our prices are NUMBER NUMBER less we offer fair prices and prompt toll free claims service get an extended warranty quote for your car today warranty plan also includes NUMBER NUMBER hour roadside assistance NUMBER rental benefit NUMBER trip interruption intervention NUMBER extended towing benefit click here for a free no obligation quote URL to easily remove your address from the list go to URL please allow NUMBER NUMBER hours for removal ,1
hi i m a college dropout i work about two hours a day i m ambitious but extremely lazy and i make over NUMBER NUMBER a year are you curious yet in a minute i m going to tell you my secret it s the dirty little secret of the internet you ve probably heard stories about people making whopping huge money online but you thought they were the big corporate execs famous programmers or boy geniuses well grasshopper think again it s people like you and me that are making the real money yep people like you and me ever since the dot com bubble burst in NUMBER small time entrepreneurs are getting richer while the fortune NUMBER companies look for bankruptcy lawyers today small business owners and ordinary folks like you and me can use the web to achieve complete financial freedom with no investment and very little work how by learning the most profitable marketing technique ever created it s called bulk email if you ve ever recieved an email advertisement then you know what bulk email is i bet you can t click on delete fast enough for most of those ads right you might not want their product but remember that thousands of other folks probably do bulk email is a percentage game every bulker who contacts you makes a six figure income on the internet i guarantee it now let s go back to math NUMBER and review some numbers if you sell on ebay you pay anywhere from a few dollars to over a hundred dollars just to post one auction how many people see your ad maybe a couple thousand or even ten or twenty thousand over a period of days using bulk email you can send your ad to more than a million people a day at virtually no cost whether your send NUMBER NUMBER emails or NUMBER million emails the price is the same zero stop paying those outrageous auction listing fees when hardly anyone sees your ad imagine that you have a decent product with a profit margin of NUMBER NUMBER on each sale if you send an email ad to NUMBER NUMBER people and only one person in a thousand actually places an order then you just generated NUMBER orders and made NUMBER NUMBER in a few hours of work it s that simple all you have to do is convince one person out of a thousand to buy your stuff and you re filthy rich the best thing is that anyone can do it doesn t matter if you re a nineteen year old college student using a dorm room computer or a fifty year old executive working from an office building in new york city anyone and i repeat anyone can start bulk emailing with virtually no startup costs all it takes is a few days of study plenty of ambition and some basic familiarity with the internet i quit college when i was NUMBER to capitalize on the dot com mania and i ve never looked back i started with no money no product to sell and only the most rudimentary computer skills i saw an opportunity and i seized it a few years later i bought my own home with cash you don t need any money you don t need a product you don t need to be a computer nerd and no experience whatsoever is required if you saw an employment ad in the newspaper like that you d jump right on it it would be a dream come true so what are you waiting for i m going to ask you four simple questions if you answer yes to all of them then i can almost promise that you will make at least NUMBER NUMBER using bulk email this year here goes do you have basic experience with the web do you have a computer and an internet connection do you have a few hours each day of free time do you want to earn some extra money with an eye towards complete financial freedom if you answer yes to these questions you could be making NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER per week working from your home kiss your day job goodbye this sure beats the NUMBER NUMBER daily grind all you need is ambition and commitment this is no get rich quick scheme you have to work to make big bucks but anyone and i mean anyone can do it you re probably wondering if it s hard to get started don t worry it s not i will show you step by step how to start your first email campaign and how to build a booming online business you ll be generating orders and making money in less than seven days okay so what if you don t have anything to sell no problem i ll show you where to find hot products that sell like craaaaaazy most people delay starting an internet business because they have nothing to sell but i m removing that hurdle right now after reading the bulkbook you can build your complete product line in less than two hours there is no excuse not to get started i will get you up and running within seven days in fact i personally guarantee that you will start your own bulk email campaign less than a week after reading the bulkbook i ll give you a toll free phone number to reach me NUMBER hours a day seven days a week where else will you find that level of service i will also include a step by step guide to starting your very first email campaign called seven days to bulk email success this seperate guide contains a daily routine for you to follow with specific exact instructions on how to get started on day one for example i teach you where to find a product to sell the next day you learn how to build a fresh mailing list on the seventh day you just click send your very first campaign is ready to go as a special bonus you ll recieve a free copy of our stealth mass mailer a very powerful bulk email program which retails for NUMBER NUMBER i ll even include NUMBER million email addresses absolutely free if you order now stop wasting your money on auction listing fees classifieds and banner ads they don t work and never will if you are serious about making money on the internet bulk email is your only option what are you waiting for few of us are willing to share this knowledge but i promise to teach you everything i know about bulk emailing in this extraordinary bulk emailer s handbook the bulkbook once again here s the deal you give me NUMBER NUMBER i give you all the tools you need to become a successful high profit bulk emailer including the bulkbook teaches you step by step how to become a high profit bulk emailer secret techniques and tips never before revealed seven days to bulk email success provides detailed day by day instruction to start sending your first email campaign in seven days NUMBER email subjects that pull like crazy email list manager manage your email lists quickly and easily very user friendly yet powerful software stealth mass mailer software can send up to NUMBER NUMBER emails an hour automatically just load them in there and click send address rover NUMBER and macrobot search engine robot extracts email addresses from databases and search engines at speeds of over NUMBER NUMBER per hour worldcast email verifier used to verify your email addresses that you extract to make sure they re valid ebook publisher easily publish your own e books and reports for resale using you guessed it bulk email seven million email addresses this huge list will get you started bulking right away i harvested these addresses myself the list is filled with impulse buyers ready to respond to your ads if you added up all of the full version bulk email software included with the bulkbook package it would total over NUMBER i am giving you the whole bundle for only NUMBER NUMBER that means there is no other out of pocket startup expense for you nothing else to buy no reason to waste money on software that doesn t work with this one package you get everything you need to start bulk emailing right away are you willing to invest NUMBER NUMBER for the opportunity to make a six figure income on the internet with no startup cash and very little effort remember you will recieve a toll free phone number for NUMBER hour expert advice and consultation from me personally to order the bulkbook right now for only NUMBER NUMBER with a visa or mastercard please click on the link below this will take you to our secure server for order processing URL note the bulkbook will be delivered electronically within NUMBER hours it is not available in printed form our company is strictly opposed to unsolicited email to be removed from this opt in list please send a request to bulkexpert URL NUMBERuumoNUMBER NUMBERoxziNUMBERcavhNUMBER NUMBERmiqqNUMBERhkixNUMBER NUMBERelNUMBER ,1
attention this is a must for all computer users new special package deal norton systemworks NUMBER software suite professional edition includes six yes NUMBER feature packed utilities all for NUMBER special low price this software will protect your computer from unwanted and hazardous viruses help secure your private valuable information allow you to transfer files and send e mails safely backup your all your data quick and easily improve your pc s performance w superior integral diagnostics NUMBER feature packed utilities NUMBER great price a NUMBER combined retail value yours for only NUMBER NUMBER includes free shipping don t fall prey to destructive viruses or hackers protect your computer and your valuable information so don t delay get your copy today URL this email has been screened and filtered by our in house opt out system in compliance with state laws if you wish to opt out from this mailing as well as the lists of thousands of other email providers please visit URL ,1
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 take control of your computer with this top of the line software symantec systemworks NUMBER professional software suite this special package includes six yes NUMBER feature packed utilities all for NUMBER special low price of only NUMBER NUMBER this software will protect your computer from unwanted and hazardous viruses help secure your private valuable information allow you to transfer files and send e mails safely backup your all your data quick and easily improve your pc s performance w superior integral diagnostics you ll never have to take your pc to the repair shop again that s six yes NUMBER feature packed utilities NUMBER great price a NUMBER combined retail value yours only NUMBER NUMBER limited time offer price includes free shipping why so cheap you ask you are buying online wholesale direct from the warehouse to you and for a limited time buy NUMBER of any software get NUMBER free don t fall prey to destructive viruses or programs protect your computer and your valuable information and click here to order now http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER erik or cut paste the above link in your browser s url bar for more questions or to order call us toll free anytime NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER we are strongly against sending unsolicited emails to those who do not wish to receive our special mailings you have opted in to one or more of our affiliate sites requesting to be notified of any special offers we may run from time to time we also have attained the services of an independent NUMBERrd party to overlook list management and removal services the list code in which you are registered is marked at the bottom of this email if you do not wish to receive further mailings please click here http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER erik remove asp to be removed from the list please accept our apologies if you have been sent this email in error we honor all removal requests iaes international association of email security approved list serial NUMBEReNUMBERtyuNUMBER ssiNUMBERusa irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
 do you care about your computer symantecsystemworks NUMBER professional edition from the creators of the NUMBER rated antivirus software this unbeatable software suite comes with every program you ll ever need to answer the problems or threats that your computer faces each day of it s life included in this magnificent deal are the following programs norton antivirusÿffffNUMBER NUMBER the NUMBER anti virus protecion ever norton utilitiesÿffffNUMBER NUMBER diagnose any problem with your system norton ghostÿffffNUMBER NUMBER makes backing up your valuable data easy norton cleansweepÿffffNUMBER NUMBER eliminates excess data instantly norton winfaxÿffffNUMBER basic turns your cpu into a fax machine gobackÿffffae NUMBER personal helps prevent you from making any mistakes all this sells at the store for NUMBER NUMBER get it now for only NUMBER NUMBER with free shipping hyperlink click here to order now limited time offer when we run out it s gone so get it while it s hot call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER order now your email address was obtained from an opt in list ieac international email abuse council approved list type code eastus NUMBERtNUMBERd if you wish to be unsubscribed from this list please hyperlink click here we do not condone spam in any shape or form we appreciate your cooperation ,1
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 this is definitely the answer we all have been waiting for every once in awhile something comes along that you just know from the people involved from the features or just from gut feeling that it s going to be very special something with huge potential and hope when you know it it rests deep in your bones and it s hard not to get overly excited and scream it to the world which is why i m writing you today although this program is launching with all the potential of being as big as anything on the internet and you will soon see it advertised and promoted everywhere you go i would like to give you an opportunity to get in early before the masses traditionally there have been a couple of flaws to any mlm multi level marketing for you newcomers that have made it difficult for programs to last after the initial hoopla today we have launched the solution to those problems the newest and most innovative system ever to hit multi level marketing with a new software system and an ingenious payplan combined with a NUMBER payout everyone comes out a winner the truth is you ve got to see it to believe it so rather than feed you a lot of hype and tell you this is the miracle you ve been looking for the magic link that will end all your problems or a lot of other things you don t need to hear i m just going to make you a very simple offer email me with send link in the subject line to itshappening URL and i will provide the link so you can take a test drive absolutely risk free you can get a birds eye inside look revealing the inner workings of this revolutionary new discovery in online income opportunities should you decide you like what you see you will have the option of activating your position but that is completely at your option this isn t a trick i m just so convinced that this is such a sound program and unique but solid opportunity that i don t want you to miss out on the chance to get an early position with an explosive launch positions will be filling up rapidly and you have before you a chance to explore the program before diving in head first if you re one of those cautious people and who isn t these days on the internet that likes to look before you leap then here is your chance thank you for your time and i hope you discover why we re all smiling please do not treat this message as spam i am a professional and very successful networker with a data base of NUMBER NUMBER i was pursueded to purchase this list containing NUMBER NUMBER names of individuals which is guaranteed to include only those people who have given their consent to receive information i have not used this means of marketing before and frankly i am dubious about its validity however having spent an arm and a leg purchasing it i m initially sending this message to just a small number of the email address s NUMBER NUMBER to guage results if you want more information i will happily supply the link without any obligation but if its of no interest or you take exception to receiving this mail then please accept my apologies for the intrusion and delete the message immediately as this is a one time mailing there is no need to respond with remove thank you ,1
 take control of your computer with this top of the line software symantec systemworks NUMBER professional software suite this special package includes six yes NUMBER feature packed utilities all for NUMBER special low price of only NUMBER NUMBER this software will protect your computer from unwanted and hazardous viruses help secure your private valuable information allow you to transfer files and send e mails safely backup your all your data quick and easily improve your pc s performance w superior integral diagnostics you ll never have to take your pc to the repair shop again that s six yes NUMBER feature packed utilities NUMBER great price a NUMBER combined retail value yours only NUMBER NUMBER limited time offer price includes free shipping why so cheap you ask you are buying online wholesale direct from the warehouse to you and for a limited time buy NUMBER of any software get NUMBER free don t fall prey to destructive viruses or programs protect your computer and your valuable information and click here to order now http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER erik or cut paste the above link in your browser s url bar for more questions or to order call us toll free anytime NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER we are strongly against sending unsolicited emails to those who do not wish to receive our special mailings you have opted in to one or more of our affiliate sites requesting to be notified of any special offers we may run from time to time we also have attained the services of an independent NUMBERrd party to overlook list management and removal services the list code in which you are registered is marked at the bottom of this email if you do not wish to receive further mailings please click here http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER erik remove asp to be removed from the list please accept our apologies if you have been sent this email in error we honor all removal requests iaes international association of email security approved list serial NUMBEReNUMBERtyuNUMBER ssiNUMBERusa ,1
 congratulations jm URL dear jm URL you ve been selected to receive a bottle of liz claiborne fragrance free perfect to wear for any occassion liz claiborne is a light floral fragrance with just a hint of fresh citrus and mandarin you ll love it for the fall season hyperlink click here now and we ll send this refreshing scent right out to you with only a few bottles on hand i know they won t last long guarantee your own good fortune and hyperlink click here to claim your very own bottle of liz claiborne fragrance jm URL act now and hyperlink click here for a one time only chance sincerely shannon jones p s please feel free to forward this great offer to a friend special NUMBER store on thank yougift has great products at an amazing price guaranteed first quality NUMBER satisfaction guaranteed or your money back visit thank yougift to get in on all the bargains visit URL get miles for just being online a completely free no obligation program that rewards members for doing the things you already do get free movie tickets free videos free gifts even free airline tickets just for researching reading the news catching up on sports and shopping even playing games visit URL now all offers are based on NUMBER customer satisfaction yourfreepresent reserves the right to cancel this offer any time once quantities run out a handling charge of NUMBER NUMBER will be applied to each item all merchandise and offers are based on first come first serve offer not valid in the state of california and washington you are receiving this mailing because you are a member of URL and subscribed as jm URL to unsubscribe hyperlink click here URL or reply to this email with remove in the subject line you must also include the body of this message to be unsubscribed any correspondence about the products services should be directed to the company in the ad em jm URL em ,1
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senior advocate of nigeria barr williams falana san dear sir i am barrister williams falana a member of nigeria bar association nba your contact reached me through the world business encyclopaedia hence i made up my mind to introduce this business to you in confidence for the mutual benefit of both of us the sum of usdNUMBERm forty eight million united states was lodged into a security company here in the country by the late head of state gen sani abacha for safe keeping this money was lodged in security vaults boxes and labelled as personal belongings and as such the security company does not know the true content of the boxes this money was originally meant to be used for his political campaign because i was his family attorney as such he confided in me with the relevant document papers relating to this deposit before he died of cardiac arrest as a matter of fact we have concluded all arrangement with an offshore security company to move this money as a consignment through diplomatic means to their offshore affiliated office where you will be required to put claim to the consignment as the bonafide beneficiary of the consignment you should know that this business is safety and NUMBER risk free as it does not involve drug money or terrorist fund if you are interested to carry out this transaction with me NUMBER will be for you for your assistance NUMBER for general expenses and NUMBER for us you are required to send by e mail immediately your full name and address which i will use to draft an agreement that will guide and protect both of us in this transaction also which will be used to effect the change of ownership of the consignment to your name as the beneficiary of the consignment also send me your telephone and fax numbers for easy communication once you notify me your willingness by sending the above requirement this transaction will be concluded within NUMBER seven working days i will be waiting for your urgent URL can reach me on my cell telephone no NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or my alternative e mail williamsfalana URL best regards barrister williams falana san _________________________________________________________ envoyez des messages musicaux sur le portable de vos amis URL ,1
senior advocate of nigeria barr williams falana san dear sir i am barrister williams falana a member of nigeria bar association nba your contact reached me through the world business encyclopaedia hence i made up my mind to introduce this business to you in confidence for the mutual benefit of both of us the sum of usdNUMBERm forty eight million united states was lodged into a security company here in the country by the late head of state gen sani abacha for safe keeping this money was lodged in security vaults boxes and labelled as personal belongings and as such the security company does not know the true content of the boxes this money was originally meant to be used for his political campaign because i was his family attorney as such he confided in me with the relevant document papers relating to this deposit before he died of cardiac arrest as a matter of fact we have concluded all arrangement with an offshore security company to move this money as a consignment through diplomatic means to their offshore affiliated office where you will be required to put claim to the consignment as the bonafide beneficiary of the consignment you should know that this business is safety and NUMBER risk free as it does not involve drug money or terrorist fund if you are interested to carry out this transaction with me NUMBER will be for you for your assistance NUMBER for general expenses and NUMBER for us you are required to send by e mail immediately your full name and address which i will use to draft an agreement that will guide and protect both of us in this transaction also which will be used to effect the change of ownership of the consignment to your name as the beneficiary of the consignment also send me your telephone and fax numbers for easy communication once you notify me your willingness by sending the above requirement this transaction will be concluded within NUMBER seven working days i will be waiting for your urgent URL can reach me on my cell telephone no NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER or my alternative e mail williamsfalana URL best regards barrister williams falana san _________________________________________________________ envoyez des messages musicaux sur le portable de vos amis URL ,1
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 free personal and business grants qualify for at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grants money guaranteed each day over one million dollars in free government grants is given away to people just like you for a wide variety of business and personal needs dear grant seeker in a moment i ll tell you exactly how where to get grants this money has to be given away why not to you you may be thinking how can i get some of this free grants money maybe you think it s impossible to get free money let me tell you it s not impossible it s a fact ordinary people and businesses all across the united states are receiving millions of dollars from these government and private foundation s everyday who can apply anyone can apply for a grant from NUMBER years old and up grants from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER are possible grants don t have to be paid back ever claim your slice of the free american pie this money is not a loan trying to get money through a conventional bank can be very time consuming and requires a lot of paperwork only to find out that you ve been denied these government agencies don t have to operate under the same stringent requirements that banks do you decide how much money you need as long as it s a lawful amount and meets with the government agencies criteria the money is yours to keep and never has to be repaid this money is non taxable interest free none of these programs require a credit check collateral security deposits or co signers you can apply even if you have a bankruptcy or bad credit it doesn t matter you as a tax payer and u s citizen are entitled to this money there are currently over NUMBER NUMBER federal programs NUMBER NUMBER state programs NUMBER NUMBER private foundations and NUMBER NUMBER scholarship programs available this year over NUMBER billion dollars in free personal and business government grants money will be given away by government grants agencies government personal and business grants facts over NUMBER million people get government money every year NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER entrepreneurs get money to start or expand a business NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get money to invest in real estate NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get money to go to college NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get free help and training for a better job getting business grants anyone thinking about going into business for themselves or wanting to expand an existing business should rush for the world s largest one stop money shop where free business grants to start or expand a business is being held for you by the federal government it sounds absolutely incredible that people living right here in the united states of america wouldn t know that each year the world s largest source of free business help delivers over NUMBER billion dollars in free business grants and low interest loans over one half trillion dollars in procurement contracts and over NUMBER billion dollars in free consulting and research grants with an economy that remains unpredictable and a need for even greater economic development on all fronts the federal government is more willing than it ever has been before to give you the money you need to own your own business and become your own boss in spite of the perception that people should not look to the government for help the great government give away programs have remained so incredibly huge that if each of the approximately NUMBER million businesses applied for an equal share they would each receive over NUMBER NUMBER most people never apply for free business grants because they somehow feel it isn t for them feel there s too much red tape or simply don t know who to contact the fact is however that people from all walks of life do receive free grants money and other benefits from the government and you should also government grants for personal need help to buy a new home for low income families repair your home rent mortgage payments utility bills purchase a new car groceries childcare fuel general living expenses academic tutoring clothing school supplies housing assistance legal services summer camp debts music lessons art lessons any extracurricular activities pay bills for senior citizens real estate taxes medical expenses and general welfare if you or someone you know suffered a fire lose there are programs available to help in replacing necessities scholarships and grants for education grant money for preschool children and nursery school education private primary and secondary schools men and women to further their education scholarships for athlete s business management engineering computer science medical school undergraduate graduate professional foreign studies and many more here s how you can get free grants in the shortest time possible once you know how and where to apply for a specific free grant results are almost inevitable the government wants to give away this money it is under congressional mandate to do so these funds are made available to help you the tax payer all that s required from you is the proper presentation of your grant request that s all announcing the complete guide to government grants forget just about everything you ve seen or heard about government grants what i ve done is put together a complete blueprint for researching locating and obtaining government grants the complete guide to government grants is the most comprehensive tool for obtaining free grant money and it comes in an electronic book e book format meaning you can download and start using it minutes after you order the complete guide to government grants will provide you with access to thousands of grant and loan sources with step by step instructions to proposal writing and contact procedures in the complete guide to government grants you ll find step by step guidelines to applying for government grants direct access to over NUMBER NUMBER grant loan and assistance programs offered by the u s federal government all you need to do is click find your program from the detailed categorized listings direct access to thousands of resources of state specific grant programs name phone number and address of an expert in your state that will answer your grant related questions and help you with the grant application free of charge online directory of government supported venture capital firms a unique search tool that will allow you to generate a customized listing of recently announced grant programs government funding programs for small businesses top NUMBER government programs based on number of inquiries discover what are the most sought after government grants and assistant programs claim your slice of the free american pie online directory of federal and state resources for government scholarships and grants for education step by step guidelines to locating grants loans and assistant programs for starting a new business or expanding an existing one how to get free small business counseling and expert advice courtesy of the us government government grants application forms direct access to thousands of government grants programs covering small businesses home improvement home buying and homeownership land acquisition site preparation for housing health assistance and services for the unemployed job training federal employment education and much much more how to develop and write grant proposals that get results plus much more the complete guide to government grants is so comprehensive it provides you with direct access to practically every source of free government grants money currently available if you re an american citizen or resident you are entitled to free grant money ranging from NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER or more if you are black you have already qualified for NUMBER programs being hispanic you qualify for many programs being a christian will get you into NUMBER programs there are also many other programs available for different faiths jewish catholic not having any money will get you into over NUMBER programs NUMBER programs if you are unemployed or underemployed the list and sources are endless you are eligible this money is absolutely free and will be yours to use for any worthwhile purpose did you know you can apply for as many grants as you want it s true for instance you could get a NUMBER NUMBER grant to begin a weight loss business get NUMBER NUMBER in tuition to become a nurse or NUMBER NUMBER to open up the day care center you ve always dreamed of owning and then go out and apply for a grant to buy a home for you and your family and once your new business starts doing well you could go out and get another grant for expansion of your business the possibilities are endless you must qualify for at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grants money or your money back we are so confident in our grants guide that if you have not received at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grant money or if you are unhappy with our e book for any reason within the next NUMBER months just send the e book back and we will refund your entire payment no questions asked if you want to order we insist you do so entirely at our risk that is why the e book comes with a no risk full year money back guarantee there is absolutely no risk on your part with this NUMBER day guarantee what we mean is we want you to order without feeling you might get taken therefore we want you to order this material today read it use it and if for any reason you aren t completely satisfied you not only can cancel you should for an immediate refund of your purchase price you simply can t lose free bonuses just to sweeten the deal i ll include the following four valuable bonuses that you can keep as a gift even if you later decide not to keep the grants guide free bonus NUMBER a fully featured grants writing tutorial software package this info alone is worth thousands of dollars i guarantee you can purchase a grants cd or info anywhere and you will not receive this downloadable software that actually shows you how to 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home purchase major appliances home heating telephone services food purchase prescription drugs and more free bonus NUMBER the complete guide to starting your own business a comprehensive manual that will give you all the guidelines and tools you need to start and succeed in a business of your own packed with guides forms worksheets and checklists you will be amazed at how simple these strategies and concepts are and how easy it will be for you to apply them to your own business idea hundreds were sold separately at NUMBER each you get it here for free here s just a taste of what s in the guide how to determine the feasibility of your business idea a complete fill in the blanks template system that will help you predict problems before they happen and keep you from losing your shirt on dog business ideas a step by step explanation of how to develop a business plan that will make bankers prospective partners and investors line up at your door plus a complete ready made business plan 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you a complete step by step organized program for cutting costs in your business clients of mine have achieved an average of NUMBER to NUMBER cost reduction with this technique and you can too keep the money in your pocket with this one what are the secrets behind constructing a results driven marketing plan i will lead you step by step into developing a marketing plan that will drive your sales through the roof a complete step by step guide guaranteed to help you increase your profits by up to NUMBER i call it the profit planning guide this is a simple practical common sense strategy but amazingly enough almost no one understands or uses it free bonus NUMBER guide to home business success this is a fast no frills guide to starting and succeeding in a home based business here s just a taste of what s in the guide home business is it for you what are the secrets behind the people who have million dollar home based businesses you ll find a NUMBER tip list proven to turn your home business into a money machine laws and regulations you must be aware of to avoid legal errors planning a home based business insider secrets and tips revealed for ensuring your success in a home business fundamentals of home business financial planning simple easy to copy ideas that will enhance your image and the response you get from your customers common problems in starting and managing a home based business and how to solve them once and for all who i am and why i m qualified to give you the best grants advice available i m the president of a leading internet based information business i m also the creator of the managing a small business cd rom and the author of five books i ve been involved in obtaining grants and in small business for the past NUMBER years of my life as a business coach a manager of a consulting firm a seminar leader and as the owner of five successful businesses during my career as a business coach and consultant i ve helped dozens of business owners obtain government grants start their businesses market expand get out of troubles sell their businesses and do practically every other small business activity you can think of the guide presented here contains every tip trick technique and strategy i ve learned during my NUMBER year career you practically get my whole brain in a form of an e book how the grants guide is priced the complete guide to government grants is normally priced at NUMBER but as part of an online marketing test if you purchase from this sale you pay only NUMBER NUMBER that s NUMBER off plus you still get the free valuable bonuses if you are serious about obtaining free grants money you need this guide don t delay a moment longer order now p s the complete guide to government grants will make a huge difference you risk nothing the guide is not the original price of NUMBER but only NUMBER NUMBER if you purchase through this sale and comes with a one year money back guarantee and you get four valuable free bonuses which 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freedombuilder advertising services can put your product or service instantly into the hands of millions of prospects many business people are finding out that they can now advertise in ways that they never could have afforded in the past the cost of sending mass e mail is extremely low and the response rate is high and quick usa today sanford wallace says he has made over a million dollars using bulk email wall street journal since NUMBER freedombuilder advertising services has provided bulk email marketing to thousands of well satisfied customers we offer the most competitive prices in the industry made possible by our high percentage of repeat business we have the most advanced direct email technology employed by only a knowledgeable few in the world we have over NUMBER million active email addresses increasing our list at the rate of NUMBER NUMBER million per month you will have instant guaranteed results something no other form of marketing can claim our turn around time is a remarkable NUMBER hours our email addresses are sorted cleaned and filtered for a very profitable marketing campaign we guarantee the lowest prices with a proven track record best of all freedombuilder advertising services can be used as a NUMBER tax write off for your business NUMBER let s say you sell a NUMBER NUMBER product or service NUMBER let s say you mass email to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people daily NUMBER let s say you receive just NUMBER order for every NUMBER NUMBER emails calculation of your earnings based on the above statistics day NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER week NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER month NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER now you can see how bulk email advertising works and how freedombuilder advertising services can help you our prices list NUMBER NUMBER emails NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER emails NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER emails NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER emails NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER emails NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER emails NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER emails NUMBER over NUMBER million please inquire prices above are for NUMBER delivered emails with your message and subject line please include this information with your order for faster service name _______________________________ address ______________________________ phone number _________________________ e mail address _________________________ finished ready to be sent ad on a NUMBER NUMBER floppy disk payable by us cash certified cheque or international money order to freedom builder advertising services suite NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBERth avenue grande prairie ab canada tNUMBERv NUMBERtNUMBER for order inquiries or extended information please call or email us voice fax NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER limited to NUMBER secs customer service NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER email freedombuilder URL best regards and have a blessed day freedombuilder advertising services under bill s NUMBER title iii passed by the NUMBERth u s congress this letter is not considered spam as long as we include NUMBER contact information and NUMBER the way to be removed from future mailings if this email has reached you in error or you wish to be removed from our mailing list please send your remove request to NUMBERrfeNUMBER URL we honor all remove requests ,1
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dear opportunities seekers i thought you just might be interested in the followings we are currently hiring work home typist clerk secretary supervisor trainer marketer manager we pay weekly NUMBER usd potential no experience ok must know typing no sex age limit part full time anywhere in the world apply now email responsevivek URL and put i am interested in subject line for details no spam give it a chance our business links offshore banking high interests account NUMBER per year after year why just settle for NUMBER since NUMBER more info responsevivek URL take advantage of our malaysia low URL cellular phones cheap brand name motorola siemen etc from NUMBER usd brand new guaranteed world lowest good quality all models details responsevivek URL we also buy sell second hand cell phones quality guaranteed guaranteed world lowest phone rates try use it yourself for free or be an agent for the top ten and get your own free web pages and make big all for free please contact your own perfect medicine the miracle of urine therapy good bye to surgical knife radiation chemo etc friends of unrine therapy life time URL consultation dr lim heng kiap father of urine therapy malaysia head of charitable natural health farm forest reserve area frim kuala lumpur malaysia others include fasting herbal hydro natural hot cold spring spas crystal meditation etc interested please contact responsevivek URL all the above agent dealer representative wanted trade enquiries welcomed please email responsevivek URL irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
 hyperlink hyperlink this is a special free offer that you will only get once my name is paige and i have made a new site for my friends this is not just a normal site but it is free to you i am only making this offer once so hurry and claim your free password now make sure that you have at least a valid email to retrieve your password and that is all that you need hyperlink click here to retrieve your password now my site is NUMBER free for life hyperlink hyperlink this email was sent to you because your email address is part of a targeted opt in URL have received this email by either requesting more information on one of our sites or someone may have used your email address if you received this email in error please accept our apologies if you do not wish to receive further offers please click below and enter your email to remove your email from future offers hyperlink click here to removeanti spam policy disclaimer under bill s NUMBER title iii passed by the NUMBERth u s congress mail cannot be considered spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link for removal from this mailing list if this e mail is unsolicited please accept our apologies per the proposed h r NUMBER unsolicited commercial electronic mail act of NUMBER further transmissions to you by the sender may be stopped at no cost to you ,1
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 earn extra income from home here is tremendous opportunity to earn big money we are a multimillion company that is growing at a rate of NUMBER per year we are looking for motivated individuals who are looking to earn a substantial income from home this is what you been waiting for a chance to be financially secure earn extra income from home here is a tremendous opportunity to earn no experience is required we will provide the training you may need we are looking for energetic and self motivated people that want to change their life if that is you click the link below and complete our online information request form and one of our employment specialist will contact you URL got nothing to lose and a lot to gain with a career that will provide you cast opportunities and substantial income please fill our online information request form here URL to remove from our list simply click on the link below now URL NUMBERdxkuNUMBER NUMBERjwspNUMBERmayxlNUMBER ,1
 the best mortage rates simple easy and free have hundreds of lenders compete for your loan refinancing new home loans debt consolidation second mortgage home equity hyperlink click here to jump start your plans for the future dear homeowner interest rates are at their lowest point in NUMBER years we help you find the best rate for your situation by matching your needs with hundreds of lenders hyperlink home improvement refinance second mortgage home equity loans and more you re eligible even with less than perfect credit this service is NUMBER free to home owners and new home buyers without any obligation just fill out a quick simple form and jump start your future plans today hyperlink click here to begin you are receiving this email because you registered at one of URL s partner sites and agreed to receive gifts and special offers that may be of interest to you if you do not want to receive special offers in the future please hyperlink click here you are subscribed as webmaster URL equal housing opportunity ,1
 if this promotion has reached you in error and you would prefer not to receive marketing messages from us please send an email to hyperlink cease and desist URL all one word no spaces giving us the email address in question or call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER for further assistance gain access to a vast network of qualified lenders at nationwide network this is a zero cost service which enables you to shop for a mortgage conveniently from your home computer our nationwide database will give you access to lenders with a variety of loan programs that will work for excellent good fair or even poor credit we will choose up to NUMBER mortgage companies from our database of registered brokers lenders each will contact you to offer you their best rate and terms at no charge you choose the best offer and save hyperlink shop here for your next mortgage with just one click poor or damaged credit is not a problem consolidate pay off high interest bills for one lower monthly payment refinance with or without cash out to a low fixed rate and payment get money to cover expenses for tuitions home improvements a new vehicle or vacations talk with up to three of our lenders today hyperlink visit our site here to get no cost rate and payment quotes this service is completely free to you if this promotion has reached you in error and you do not want to be contacted by us further hyperlink click here and let us know you will not be bothered by us at this email address again alternatively you may send an email to hyperlink cease and desist URL giving us the email address in question for immediate attention should you wish to delete your email address from our mailing list by phone please call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and leave your email address please spell your email address clearly you may also mail a written request to us at compliance nmln NUMBER rancho vista blvd h NUMBER palmdale ca NUMBER your request will be honored within NUMBER hours of our receipt of your mail failure to exclude yourself from our recurring mailer via any of the lawful channels provided means that you have given your consent to be included in our mailer you will continue to receive email as long as you do not delete yourself from our mailer please do not continue to receive unwanted email after we have provided you with lawful means to be excluded we log date and retain all delete requests no part of this statement may be amended or eliminated thank you ,1
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do you want to teach and grow rich if you are a motivated and qualified communicator i will personally train you to do NUMBER NUMBER minute presentations per day to qualify prospects that i can provide to you we will demonstrate to you that you can make NUMBER a day part time using this system or if you have NUMBER hours per week as in my case you can make in excess of NUMBER NUMBER per week as i am currently generating verifiable by the way plus i will introduce you to my mentor who makes well in excess of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER annually many are called few are chosen make the call and call the NUMBER hour pre recorded message number below we will take as much or as little time as you need to see if this program is right for you NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please do not make this call unless you are genuinely money motivated and qualified i need people who already have people skills in place and have either made large amounts of money in the past or are ready to generate large amounts of money in the future looking forward to your call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER to be taken out of this database sonicNUMBER URL NUMBERxcybNUMBER NUMBERrcxfNUMBERbqpbNUMBER NUMBERrhalNUMBERtbmaNUMBER NUMBERqdjuNUMBERntpsNUMBER lNUMBER NUMBERuxydNUMBER NUMBERtkyhNUMBERfhogNUMBER NUMBERqsjmNUMBERhyluNUMBER NUMBERfhtsNUMBERlNUMBER ,1
register domains for just NUMBER NUMBER the new domain names are finally available to the general public at discount prices now you can register one of the exciting new biz or info domain names as well as the original com and net names for just NUMBER NUMBER these brand new domain extensions were recently approved by icann and have the same rights as the original com and net domain names the biggest benefit is of course that the biz and info domain names are currently more available i e it will be much easier to register an attractive and easy to remember domain name for the same price visit URL today for more info register your domain name today for just NUMBER NUMBER at URL registration fees include full access to an easy to use control panel to manage your domain name in the future sincerely domain administrator domains for everyone to remove your email address from further promotional mailings from this company click here URL fNUMBER NUMBERsxzpNUMBER NUMBERevqmNUMBERrurfNUMBER NUMBERfoolNUMBER ,1
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hello you may have seen this business before and ignored it i know i did many times however please take a few moments to read this letter i was amazed when the profit potential of this business finally sunk in and it works with easy to use e mail tools and opt in e mail success in this business is now fast easy and well within the capabilities of ordinary people who know little about internet marketing and the earnings potential is truly staggering i ll make you a promise read this e mail to the end follow what it says to the letter and you will not worry whether a recession is coming or not who is president or whether you keep your current job or not yes i know what you are thinking i never responded to one of these before either one day though something just said you throw away NUMBER NUMBER going to a movie for NUMBER hours with your wife what the heck believe me no matter where you believe those feelings come from i thank every day that i had that feeling i cannot imagine where i would be or what i would be doing had i not read on it s true every word of it it is legal i checked simply because you are buying and selling something of value as seen on national tv making over half a million dollars every NUMBER to NUMBER months from your home thanks to the computer age and the internet be an internet millionaire like others within a year before you say bull please read the following this is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately due to the popularity of this letter on the internet a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below to see if it really can make people money the show also investigated whether or not the program was legal their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions they are bound to make some mega bucks with only NUMBER out of pocket cost due to the recent increase of popularity respect this program has attained it is currently working better than ever this is what one had to say thanks to this profitable opportunity i was approached many times before but each time i passed on it i am so glad i finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required to my astonishment i received a total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in NUMBER weeks with money still coming in pam hedland fort lee new jersey another said this program has been around for a long time but i never believed in it but one day when i received this again in the mail i decided to gamble my NUMBER on it i followed the simple instructions and walaa NUMBER weeks later the money started to come in first month i only made NUMBER NUMBER but the next NUMBER months after that i made a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so far in the past NUMBER months by re entering the program i have made over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and i am playing it again the key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and not change anything more testimonials later but first print this now for your future reference if you would like to make at least NUMBER NUMBER every NUMBER to NUMBER months easily and comfortably please read the following then read it again and again follow the simple instruction below and your financial dreams will come true guaranteed instructions order all NUMBER reports shown on the list below for each report send NUMBER cash the name number of the report you are ordering and your e mail address to the person whose name appears on that list next to the report make sure your return address is on your envelope top left corner in case of any mail problems when you place your order make sure you order each of the NUMBER reports you will need all NUMBER reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them your total cost NUMBER x NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER within a few days you will receive via e mail each of the NUMBER reports from these NUMBER different individuals save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the NUMBER NUMBER s of people who will order them from you also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happens to your computer important do not alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report or their sequence on the list in any way other than what is instructed below in steps NUMBER through NUMBER or you will lose out on the majority of your profits once you understand the way this works you will also see how it will not work if you change it remember this method has been tested and if you alter it it will not work people have tried to put their friends relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money but it does not work this way believe us some have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened so do not try to change anything other than what is instructed because if you do it will not work for you remember honesty reaps the reward this is a legitimate business you are offering a product for sale and getting paid for it treat it as such and you will be very profitable in a short period of time NUMBER after you have ordered all NUMBER reports take this advertisement and remove the name address of the person in report NUMBER this person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER insert your name address in the report NUMBER position please make sure you copy every name address accurately this is critical to your success take this entire letter with the modified list of names and save it on your computer do not make any other changes save this on a disk as well just in case you lose any data to assist you with marketing your business on the internet the NUMBER reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e mails legally where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more there are NUMBER primary methods to get this venture going method NUMBER by sending bulk e mail legally let s say that you decide to start small just to see how it goes and we will assume you and those involved send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails each let s also assume that the mailing receives only a NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of NUMBER response the response could be much better but let s just say it is only NUMBER NUMBER also many people will send out hundreds of thousands of e mails instead of only NUMBER NUMBER each continuing with this example you send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails with a NUMBER NUMBER response that is only NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people responded by sending out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER out of those NUMBER NUMBER e mails only NUMBER NUMBER responded with orders that s NUMBER people who responded and ordered report NUMBER those NUMBER people mail out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people send NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER million e mails sent out the NUMBER NUMBER response is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER million e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER that s NUMBER NUMBER orders times NUMBER each NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER half a million dollars your total income in this example is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER grand total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER numbers do not lie get a pencil paper and figure out the worst possible responses and no matter how you calculate it you will still make a lot of money remember friend this is assuming only NUMBER people ordering out of NUMBER NUMBER you mailed to dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or half or even one NUMBERth of those people mailed NUMBER NUMBER e mails each or more there are over NUMBER million people on the internet worldwide and counting with thousands more coming online every day believe me many people will do just that and more method NUMBER by placing free ads on the internet advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of free places to advertise placing a lot of free ads on the internet will easily get a larger response we strongly suggest you start with method NUMBER and add method NUMBER as you go along for every NUMBER you receive all you must do is e mail them the report they ordered that s it always provide same day service on all orders this will guarantee that the e mail they send out with your name and address on it will be prompt because they cannot advertise until they receive the report available reports the reason for the cash is not because this is illegal or somehow wrong it is simply about time time for checks or credit cards to be cleared or approved etc concealing it is simply so no one can see there is money in the envelope and steal it before it gets to you order each report by its number name only notes always send NUMBER cash u s currency for each report checks not accepted make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least NUMBER sheets of paper on one of those sheets of paper write the number the name of the report you are ordering your e mail address and your name and postal address place your order for these reports now report NUMBER the insider s guide to advertising for free on the net order report NUMBER from robert borowczyk ul j olbrachta NUMBERc m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER warsaw poland ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER the insider s guide to sending bulk email on the net order report NUMBER from mohammad faraziyan engelbertstr NUMBER NUMBER düsseldorf germany ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER secret to multilevel marketing on the net order report NUMBER from luis pastor apartado NUMBER NUMBER bilbao spain ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER how to become a millionaire using mlm the net order report NUMBER from ali reza auf den holln NUMBER NUMBER bochum germany ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER how to send out one million emails for free order report NUMBER from j siden krondikesvägen NUMBER a NUMBER östersund sweden ______________________________________________________ your success guidelines follow these guidelines to guarantee your success if you do not receive at least NUMBER orders for report NUMBER within NUMBER weeks continue sending e mails until you do after you have received NUMBER orders NUMBER to NUMBER weeks after that you should receive NUMBER orders or more for report NUMBER if you do not continue advertising or sending e mails until you do once you have received NUMBER or more orders for report NUMBER you can relax because the system is already working for you and the cash will continue to roll in this is important to remember every time your name is moved down on the list you are placed in front of a different report you can keep track of your progress by watching which report people are ordering from you if you want to generate more income send another batch of e mails and start the whole process again there is no limit to the income you can generate from this business following is a note from the originator of this program you have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life with no risk and just a little bit of effort you can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined follow the program exactly as instructed do not change it in any way it works exceedingly well as it is now remember to e mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in report NUMBER and moved others to NUMBER NUMBER as instructed above one of the people you send this to may send out NUMBER NUMBER or more e mails and your name will be on every one of them remember though the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach so my friend i have given you the ideas information materials and opportunity to become financially independent it is up to you now more testimonials my name is mitchell my wife jody and i live in chicago i am an accountant with a major u s corporation and i make pretty good money when i received this program i grumbled to jody about receiving junk mail i made fun of the whole thing spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved i knew it wouldn t work jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet i made merciless fun of her and was ready to lay the old i told you so on her when the thing didn t work well the laugh was on me within NUMBER weeks she had received NUMBER responses within the next NUMBER days she had received total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all cash i was shocked i have joined jody in her hobby mitchell wolf m d chicago illinois not being the gambling type it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan but conservative as i am i decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that i wouldn t get enough orders to at least get my money back i was surprised when i found my medium size post office box crammed with orders i made NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the first NUMBER weeks the nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live there simply isn t a better investment with a faster return and so big dan sondstrom alberta canada i had received this program before i deleted it but later i wondered if i should have given it a try of course i had no idea who to contact to get another copy so i had to wait until i was e mailed again by someone else NUMBER months passed then it luckily came again i did not delete this one i made more than NUMBER NUMBER on my first try and all the money came within NUMBER weeks susan de suza new york n y it really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you i followed the simple instructions carefully and within NUMBER days the money started to come in my first month i made NUMBER in the NUMBERnd month i made NUMBER NUMBER and by the end of the third month my total cash count was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER life is beautiful thanx to internet fred dellaca westport new zealand order your reports today and get started on your road to financial freedom if you have any questions of the legality of this program contact the office of associate director for marketing practices federal trade commission bureau of consumer protection washington d c this message is sent in compliance of the proposed bill section NUMBER paragraph a NUMBER c of s NUMBER this message is not intended for residents in the state of washington virginia or california screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability this is a one time mailing and this list will never be used again irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
hello you may have seen this business before and ignored it i know i did many times however please take a few moments to read this letter i was amazed when the profit potential of this business finally sunk in and it works with easy to use e mail tools and opt in e mail success in this business is now fast easy and well within the capabilities of ordinary people who know little about internet marketing and the earnings potential is truly staggering i ll make you a promise read this e mail to the end follow what it says to the letter and you will not worry whether a recession is coming or not who is president or whether you keep your current job or not yes i know what you are thinking i never responded to one of these before either one day though something just said you throw away NUMBER NUMBER going to a movie for NUMBER hours with your wife what the heck believe me no matter where you believe those feelings come from i thank every day that i had that feeling i cannot imagine where i would be or what i would be doing had i not read on it s true every word of it it is legal i checked simply because you are buying and selling something of value as seen on national tv making over half a million dollars every NUMBER to NUMBER months from your home thanks to the computer age and the internet be an internet millionaire like others within a year before you say bull please read the following this is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately due to the popularity of this letter on the internet a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below to see if it really can make people money the show also investigated whether or not the program was legal their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions they are bound to make some mega bucks with only NUMBER out of pocket cost due to the recent increase of popularity respect this program has attained it is currently working better than ever this is what one had to say thanks to this profitable opportunity i was approached many times before but each time i passed on it i am so glad i finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required to my astonishment i received a total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in NUMBER weeks with money still coming in pam hedland fort lee new jersey another said this program has been around for a long time but i never believed in it but one day when i received this again in the mail i decided to gamble my NUMBER on it i followed the simple instructions and walaa NUMBER weeks later the money started to come in first month i only made NUMBER NUMBER but the next NUMBER months after that i made a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER so far in the past NUMBER months by re entering the program i have made over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER and i am playing it again the key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and not change anything more testimonials later but first print this now for your future reference if you would like to make at least NUMBER NUMBER every NUMBER to NUMBER months easily and comfortably please read the following then read it again and again follow the simple instruction below and your financial dreams will come true guaranteed instructions order all NUMBER reports shown on the list below for each report send NUMBER cash the name number of the report you are ordering and your e mail address to the person whose name appears on that list next to the report make sure your return address is on your envelope top left corner in case of any mail problems when you place your order make sure you order each of the NUMBER reports you will need all NUMBER reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them your total cost NUMBER x NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER within a few days you will receive via e mail each of the NUMBER reports from these NUMBER different individuals save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the NUMBER NUMBER s of people who will order them from you also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happens to your computer important do not alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report or their sequence on the list in any way other than what is instructed below in steps NUMBER through NUMBER or you will lose out on the majority of your profits once you understand the way this works you will also see how it will not work if you change it remember this method has been tested and if you alter it it will not work people have tried to put their friends relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money but it does not work this way believe us some have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened so do not try to change anything other than what is instructed because if you do it will not work for you remember honesty reaps the reward this is a legitimate business you are offering a product for sale and getting paid for it treat it as such and you will be very profitable in a short period of time NUMBER after you have ordered all NUMBER reports take this advertisement and remove the name address of the person in report NUMBER this person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER move the name address in report NUMBER down to report NUMBER NUMBER insert your name address in the report NUMBER position please make sure you copy every name address accurately this is critical to your success take this entire letter with the modified list of names and save it on your computer do not make any other changes save this on a disk as well just in case you lose any data to assist you with marketing your business on the internet the NUMBER reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e mails legally where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more there are NUMBER primary methods to get this venture going method NUMBER by sending bulk e mail legally let s say that you decide to start small just to see how it goes and we will assume you and those involved send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails each let s also assume that the mailing receives only a NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER of NUMBER response the response could be much better but let s just say it is only NUMBER NUMBER also many people will send out hundreds of thousands of e mails instead of only NUMBER NUMBER each continuing with this example you send out only NUMBER NUMBER e mails with a NUMBER NUMBER response that is only NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people responded by sending out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER out of those NUMBER NUMBER e mails only NUMBER NUMBER responded with orders that s NUMBER people who responded and ordered report NUMBER those NUMBER people mail out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER people send NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER million e mails sent out the NUMBER NUMBER response is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER those NUMBER NUMBER people send out NUMBER NUMBER e mails each for a total of NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER million e mails the NUMBER NUMBER response to that is NUMBER NUMBER orders for report NUMBER that s NUMBER NUMBER orders times NUMBER each NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER half a million dollars your total income in this example is NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER grand total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER numbers do not lie get a pencil paper and figure out the worst possible responses and no matter how you calculate it you will still make a lot of money remember friend this is assuming only NUMBER people ordering out of NUMBER NUMBER you mailed to dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or half or even one NUMBERth of those people mailed NUMBER NUMBER e mails each or more there are over NUMBER million people on the internet worldwide and counting with thousands more coming online every day believe me many people will do just that and more method NUMBER by placing free ads on the internet advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of free places to advertise placing a lot of free ads on the internet will easily get a larger response we strongly suggest you start with method NUMBER and add method NUMBER as you go along for every NUMBER you receive all you must do is e mail them the report they ordered that s it always provide same day service on all orders this will guarantee that the e mail they send out with your name and address on it will be prompt because they cannot advertise until they receive the report available reports the reason for the cash is not because this is illegal or somehow wrong it is simply about time time for checks or credit cards to be cleared or approved etc concealing it is simply so no one can see there is money in the envelope and steal it before it gets to you order each report by its number name only notes always send NUMBER cash u s currency for each report checks not accepted make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least NUMBER sheets of paper on one of those sheets of paper write the number the name of the report you are ordering your e mail address and your name and postal address place your order for these reports now report NUMBER the insider s guide to advertising for free on the net order report NUMBER from robert borowczyk ul j olbrachta NUMBERc m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER warsaw poland ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER the insider s guide to sending bulk email on the net order report NUMBER from mohammad faraziyan engelbertstr NUMBER NUMBER düsseldorf germany ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER secret to multilevel marketing on the net order report NUMBER from luis pastor apartado NUMBER NUMBER bilbao spain ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER how to become a millionaire using mlm the net order report NUMBER from ali reza auf den holln NUMBER NUMBER bochum germany ______________________________________________________ report NUMBER how to send out one million emails for free order report NUMBER from j siden krondikesvägen NUMBER a NUMBER östersund sweden ______________________________________________________ your success guidelines follow these guidelines to guarantee your success if you do not receive at least NUMBER orders for report NUMBER within NUMBER weeks continue sending e mails until you do after you have received NUMBER orders NUMBER to NUMBER weeks after that you should receive NUMBER orders or more for report NUMBER if you do not continue advertising or sending e mails until you do once you have received NUMBER or more orders for report NUMBER you can relax because the system is already working for you and the cash will continue to roll in this is important to remember every time your name is moved down on the list you are placed in front of a different report you can keep track of your progress by watching which report people are ordering from you if you want to generate more income send another batch of e mails and start the whole process again there is no limit to the income you can generate from this business following is a note from the originator of this program you have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life with no risk and just a little bit of effort you can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined follow the program exactly as instructed do not change it in any way it works exceedingly well as it is now remember to e mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in report NUMBER and moved others to NUMBER NUMBER as instructed above one of the people you send this to may send out NUMBER NUMBER or more e mails and your name will be on every one of them remember though the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach so my friend i have given you the ideas information materials and opportunity to become financially independent it is up to you now more testimonials my name is mitchell my wife jody and i live in chicago i am an accountant with a major u s corporation and i make pretty good money when i received this program i grumbled to jody about receiving junk mail i made fun of the whole thing spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved i knew it wouldn t work jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet i made merciless fun of her and was ready to lay the old i told you so on her when the thing didn t work well the laugh was on me within NUMBER weeks she had received NUMBER responses within the next NUMBER days she had received total NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER all cash i was shocked i have joined jody in her hobby mitchell wolf m d chicago illinois not being the gambling type it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan but conservative as i am i decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that i wouldn t get enough orders to at least get my money back i was surprised when i found my medium size post office box crammed with orders i made NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in the first NUMBER weeks the nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live there simply isn t a better investment with a faster return and so big dan sondstrom alberta canada i had received this program before i deleted it but later i wondered if i should have given it a try of course i had no idea who to contact to get another copy so i had to wait until i was e mailed again by someone else NUMBER months passed then it luckily came again i did not delete this one i made more than NUMBER NUMBER on my first try and all the money came within NUMBER weeks susan de suza new york n y it really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you i followed the simple instructions carefully and within NUMBER days the money started to come in my first month i made NUMBER in the NUMBERnd month i made NUMBER NUMBER and by the end of the third month my total cash count was NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER life is beautiful thanx to internet fred dellaca westport new zealand order your reports today and get started on your road to financial freedom if you have any questions of the legality of this program contact the office of associate director for marketing practices federal trade commission bureau of consumer protection washington d c this message is sent in compliance of the proposed bill section NUMBER paragraph a NUMBER c of s NUMBER this message is not intended for residents in the state of washington virginia or california screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability this is a one time mailing and this list will never be used again ,1
 the best mortage rates simple easy and free have hundreds of lenders compete for your loan refinancing new home loans debt consolidation second mortgage home equity hyperlink click here to jump start your plans for the future dear homeowner interest rates are at their lowest point in NUMBER years we help you find the best rate for your situation by matching your needs with hundreds of lenders hyperlink home improvement refinance second mortgage home equity loans and more you re eligible even with less than perfect credit this service is NUMBER free to home owners and new home buyers without any obligation just fill out a quick simple form and jump start your future plans today hyperlink click here to begin you are receiving this email because you registered at one of URL s partner sites and agreed to receive gifts and special offers that may be of interest to you if you do not want to receive special offers in the future please hyperlink click here you are subscribed as webmaster URL equal housing opportunity ,1
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opportunity is knocking why because mortgage rates are rising as a national lender not a broker we can guarantee you the lowest possible rate on your home loan rates may well never be this low again this is your chance to secure a better future you could literally save enough money to buy that new car you ve been wanting or to take that special vacation why pay more than you have to pay we can guarantee you the best rate and the best deal possible for you but only if you act now this is a free service no fees of any kind you can easily determine if we can help you in just a few short minutes we only provide information in terms so simple that anyone can understand them we promise that you won t need an attorney to see the savings we offer both first and second home loans and we will be happy to show you why your current loan is the best for you NUMBERr why you should replace it once again there s no risk for you none at all take two minutes and use the link s below that works for you let us show you how to get more for yourself and your family don t let opportunity pass you by take action now a href URL click_here a URL sincerely chalres m gillette mortcorp llc rpmmumwnzvrmtuqepbremaddardmkkksfpipttmsdocbmnbkghfqauxdoitvxdmvdazpibikzbfxporvaazcuttzzzzjxuitoysdfbyominmypxtuomobktfgqg __________________________________________________________________ the new netscape NUMBER NUMBER browser is now available upgrade now URL get your own free personal netscape mail account today at URL ,1
hi i m a college dropout i work about two hours a day i m ambitious but extremely lazy and i make over NUMBER NUMBER a year are you curious yet in a minute i m going to tell you my secret it s the dirty little secret of the internet you ve probably heard stories about people making whopping huge money online but you thought they were the big corporate execs famous programmers or boy geniuses well grasshopper think again it s people like you and me that are making the real money yep people like you and me ever since the dot com bubble burst in NUMBER small time entrepreneurs are getting richer while the fortune NUMBER companies look for bankruptcy lawyers today small business owners and ordinary folks like you and me can use the web to achieve complete financial freedom with no investment and very little work how by learning the most profitable marketing technique ever created it s called bulk email if you ve ever recieved an email advertisement then you know what bulk email is i bet you can t click on delete fast enough for most of those ads right you might not want their product but remember that thousands of other folks probably do bulk email is a percentage game every bulker who contacts you makes a six figure income on the internet i guarantee it now let s go back to math NUMBER and review some numbers if you sell on ebay you pay anywhere from a few dollars to over a hundred dollars just to post one auction how many people see your ad maybe a couple thousand or even ten or twenty thousand over a period of days using bulk email you can send your ad to more than a million people a day at virtually no cost whether your send NUMBER NUMBER emails or NUMBER million emails the price is the same zero stop paying those outrageous auction listing fees when hardly anyone sees your ad imagine that you have a decent product with a profit margin of NUMBER NUMBER on each sale if you send an email ad to NUMBER NUMBER people and only one person in a thousand actually places an order then you just generated NUMBER orders and made NUMBER NUMBER in a few hours of work it s that simple all you have to do is convince one person out of a thousand to buy your stuff and you re filthy rich the best thing is that anyone can do it doesn t matter if you re a nineteen year old college student using a dorm room computer or a fifty year old executive working from an office building in new york city anyone and i repeat anyone can start bulk emailing with virtually no startup costs all it takes is a few days of study plenty of ambition and some basic familiarity with the internet i quit college when i was NUMBER to capitalize on the dot com mania and i ve never looked back i started with no money no product to sell and only the most rudimentary computer skills i saw an opportunity and i seized it a few years later i bought my own home with cash you don t need any money you don t need a product you don t need to be a computer nerd and no experience whatsoever is required if you saw an employment ad in the newspaper like that you d jump right on it it would be a dream come true so what are you waiting for i m going to ask you four simple questions if you answer yes to all of them then i can almost promise that you will make at least NUMBER NUMBER using bulk email this year here goes do you have basic experience with the web do you have a computer and an internet connection do you have a few hours each day of free time do you want to earn some extra money with an eye towards complete financial freedom if you answer yes to these questions you could be making NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER per week working from your home kiss your day job goodbye this sure beats the NUMBER NUMBER daily grind all you need is ambition and commitment this is no get rich quick scheme you have to work to make big bucks but anyone and i mean anyone can do it you re probably wondering if it s hard to get started don t worry it s not i will show you step by step how to start your first email campaign and how to build a booming online business you ll be generating orders and making money in less than seven days okay so what if you don t have anything to sell no problem i ll show you where to find hot products that sell like craaaaaazy most people delay starting an internet business because they have nothing to sell but i m removing that hurdle right now after reading the bulkbook you can build your complete product line in less than two hours there is no excuse not to get started i will get you up and running within seven days in fact i personally guarantee that you will start your own bulk email campaign less than a week after reading the bulkbook i ll give you a toll free phone number to reach me NUMBER hours a day seven days a week where else will you find that level of service i will also include a step by step guide to starting your very first email campaign called seven days to bulk email success this seperate guide contains a daily routine for you to follow with specific exact instructions on how to get started on day one for example i teach you where to find a product to sell the next day you learn how to build a fresh mailing list on the seventh day you just click send your very first campaign is ready to go as a special bonus you ll recieve a free copy of our stealth mass mailer a very powerful bulk email program which retails for NUMBER NUMBER i ll even include NUMBER million email addresses absolutely free if you order now stop wasting your money on auction listing fees classifieds and banner ads they don t work and never will if you are serious about making money on the internet bulk email is your only option what are you waiting for few of us are willing to share this knowledge but i promise to teach you everything i know about bulk emailing in this extraordinary bulk emailer s handbook the bulkbook once again here s the deal you give me NUMBER NUMBER i give you all the tools you need to become a successful high profit bulk emailer including the bulkbook teaches you step by step how to become a high profit bulk emailer secret techniques and tips never before revealed seven days to bulk email success provides detailed day by day instruction to start sending your first email campaign in seven days NUMBER email subjects that pull like crazy email list manager manage your email lists quickly and easily very user friendly yet powerful software stealth mass mailer software can send up to NUMBER NUMBER emails an hour automatically just load them in there and click send address rover NUMBER and macrobot search engine robot extracts email addresses from databases and search engines at speeds of over NUMBER NUMBER per hour worldcast email verifier used to verify your email addresses that you extract to make sure they re valid ebook publisher easily publish your own e books and reports for resale using you guessed it bulk email seven million email addresses this huge list will get you started bulking right away i harvested these addresses myself the list is filled with impulse buyers ready to respond to your ads if you added up all of the full version bulk email software included with the bulkbook package it would total over NUMBER i am giving you the whole bundle for only NUMBER NUMBER that means there is no other out of pocket startup expense for you nothing else to buy no reason to waste money on software that doesn t work with this one package you get everything you need to start bulk emailing right away are you willing to invest NUMBER NUMBER for the opportunity to make a six figure income on the internet with no startup cash and very little effort remember you will recieve a toll free phone number for NUMBER hour expert advice and consultation from me personally to order the bulkbook right now for only NUMBER NUMBER with a visa or mastercard please click on the link below this will take you to our secure server for order processing URL note the bulkbook will be delivered electronically within NUMBER hours it is not available in printed form our company is strictly opposed to unsolicited email to be removed from this opt in list please send a request to quiksilver URL NUMBERfubxNUMBER NUMBERwhdlNUMBERmustNUMBER NUMBERumlNUMBER ,1
 question do you want a different job do you want to be your own boss do you need extra income do you need to start a new life does your current job seem to go nowhere if you answered yes to these questions then here is your solution we are a fortune NUMBER company looking for motivated individuals who are looking to a substantial income working from home thousands of individual are currently do this right now so if you are looking to be employed at home with a career that will provide you vast opportunities and a substantial income please fill out our online information request form here now URL to miss out on this opportunity click here URL ,1
our delightful garden ornaments combine the finest craftsmanship in woodworking with the lastest technology in paints and hardware http www gardenornaments adv URL we are the world s biggest whirligig maker sincerely studio t inc usa the home of heller whirligigs remove e mail based commercial communication avoids unnecessary spending on catalogs and paper and helps to preserve valuable natural resources such as forests and oil we do not wish to share our valuable information about whirligigs with those who are not interested should you not wish to receive information from us in the future please click on the following removal link http www gardenornaments adv URL even though our database cleansing might be subject to delay or error we will remove your e mail address permanently from our database however please realize that removal from our database does not guarantee that your e mail address will be deleted from the many other e mail marketers who construct databases themselves by harvesting from web sites or by buying any of the thousands of lists of e mail addresses that are openly for sale on the internet sgossqweylpfdxongtxllytjnmkamyrwrascyl ,1
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protect your financial well being purchase an extended auto warranty for your car today click here for a free no obligation quote URL car troubles always seem to happen at the worst possible time protect yourself and your family with a quality extended warranty for your car truck or suv so that a large expense cannot hit you all at once we cover most vehicles with less than NUMBER NUMBER miles buy direct our prices are NUMBER NUMBER less we offer fair prices and prompt toll free claims service get an extended warranty quote for your car today warranty plan also includes NUMBER NUMBER hour roadside assistance NUMBER rental benefit NUMBER trip interruption intervention NUMBER extended towing benefit click here for a free no obligation quote URL to easily remove your address from the list go to URL please allow NUMBER NUMBER hours for removal ,1
from kone bakar tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER abidjan ivory coast west africa dear permit me to inform you of my desire of going into business relationship with you i got your name and contact from the internet in my search for assistance due to it s esteeming nature i must not hesitate to confide in you for this simple and sincere business i am kone bakar the only child of late mr mrs coulibaly bakar my father was a very wealthy cocoa merchant based in abidjan the economic capital of ivory coast before he was poisoned to death by his business associates on one of their outing on on a business meetings when my mother died on the NUMBERst october NUMBER my father took me so special because my mother is now dead before the death of my father on NUMBERth june NUMBER in a private hospital here in abidjan he secretly called me on his bedside and told me that he has a sum of us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER sixteen million five hundred thousand united states dollars left in a suspence account in a local bank here in abidjan that he used my name as his only son for the next of kin in deposit of the fund he also explained to me that it was because of this wealth that he was poisoned by his business associates that i should seek for a foreign partner in a country of my choice where i will transfer this money and use it for investment purpose please i am sincerely asking for your assistance in the following ways URL provide a bank account where this money would be transferred to URL serve as the guardian of this fund since i am a boy of NUMBER years URL make arrangement for me to come over to your country after the money has been transferred moreover sir i am willing to offer you NUMBER of the total sum as compensation for your effort input after the successful transfer of this fund to your nominated account overseas furthermore you should indicate your opinion towards assisting me as i believe that this transaction would be concluded within seven NUMBER days you signify your interest to assist me i will appreciate you call me on NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER before sending me your reply anticaipting to hearing from you soon thanks and god bless kone bakar tel NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER __________________________________________________________ sign up for your own free personalized e mail at URL URL ,1
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you can save thousands of dollars over the course of your loan with just a NUMBER drop in your rate now is the time to take advantage of falling interest rates there is no advantage in waiting any longer URL refinance or consolidate high interest credit card debt into a low interest mortgage mortgage interest is tax deductible whereas credit card interest is not our nationwide network of lenders have hundreds of different loan programs to fit your current situation refinance second mortgage debt consolidation home improvement purchase by clicking on the link below and filling out the form the information you provide is instantly transmitted to our network of financial experts who will respond to your request with up to three offers this service is NUMBER free to homeowners and of course without obligation URL click here to delete your address from future updates URL ,1
 looking for property in spain don_t waste your time that is what most people do when they look for property using property web sites why because many of the properties that are advertised on them have already been sold you could waste precious time looking for and inquiring after properties that have already been sold how frustrating the property market is moving very fast in spain and frankly many estate agents do not have the time to update their web sites what you need is a company that can find you property that is actually for sale and can present you with a selection of current properties that specifically fit your requirements just think of how much time and effort that would save you property finders spain can do just that we are here in spain and have a many ways of looking for property that has just arrived on the market even looking in the local papers so while others are chasing properties or new projects that are no longer for sale you can be viewing property that has just arrived on the market simply fill in the form below and press the send button and we will do all of the hard work for you once we receive your requirements we will immediately begin looking for current properties just right for you property finders form property type villa apartment town house new building projects plot of land number of bedrooms NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER location do you want a sea view yes no don t care mountain view yes no don t care a property in the country a property in or near a city pool yes no yes no don t care price range are you planning to come to spain in the next three months yes no yes no name e mail address telephone number country code let us find a property for you ,1
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 brand new version NUMBER NUMBER just released astounding new software lets you find out almost anything about anyone download it right now no charge card needed for the brand new version NUMBER NUMBER click here a href URL URL a discover everything you ever wanted to know about your friends your family your enemies your employees yourself is someone using your identity even your boss did you know you can search for anyone anytime anywhere right on the internet download this software right now click here a href URL URL a this mammoth collection of internet investigative tools research sites will provide you with nearly NUMBER gigantic search resources to locate information on people you trust screen new tenants or roommates housekeepers current or past employment people you work with license plate number with name and address unlisted phone numbers long lost friends locate e mails phone numbers or addresses o get a copy of your fbi file o get a copy of your military file o find debtors and locate hidden assets o check criminal drug and driving records o lookup someone s employment history for the brand new version NUMBER NUMBER click here a href URL URL a locate old classmates missing family member or a long lost love do background checks on employees before you hire them investigate your family history birth death and government records discover how unlisted phone numbers are located check out your new or old love interest verify your own credit reports so you can correct wrong information track anyone s internet activity see the sites they visit and what they are typing explore secret web sites that conventional search engines have never found for the brand new version NUMBER NUMBER click here a href URL URL a discover little known ways to make untraceable phone calls check adoption records locate missing children or relatives dig up information on your friends neighbors or boss discover employment opportunities from around the world locate transcripts and court orders from all NUMBER states cloak your email so your true address can t be discovered find out how much alimony your neighbor is paying discover how to check your phones for wiretaps or check yourself out and you will be shocked at what you find these are only a few things you can do there is no limit to the power of this software to download this software and have it in less than NUMBER minutes click on the url below to visit our website new no charge card needed a href URL URL a if you no longer wish to hear about future offers from us send us a message with stop in the subject line by clicking here a href mailto stp_NUMBER_b URL mailto stp_NUMBER_b URL a please allow up to NUMBER hours to take effect please do not include any correspondence in your message to this automatic stop robot it will not be read all requests processed automatically kiysNUMBER ,1
hi URL you get emails every day offering to show you how to make money most of these emails are from people who are not making any money and they expect you to listen to them enough if you want to make money with your computer then you should hook up with a group that is actually doing it we are making a large continuing income every month what s more we will show you how to do the same thing this business is done completely by internet and email and you can even join for free to check it out first if you can send an email you can do this no special skills are required how much are we making anywhere from NUMBER to NUMBER per month we are real people and most of us work at this business part time but keep in mind we do work at it i am not going to insult your intelligence by saying you can sign up do no work and rake in the cash that kind of job does not exist but if you are willing to put in NUMBER NUMBER hours per week this might be just the thing you are looking for this is not income that is determined by luck or work that is done for you it is all based on your effort but as i said there are no special skills required and this income is residual meaning that it continues each month and it tends to increase each month also interested i invite you to find out more you can get in as a free member at no cost and no obligation to continue if you decide it is not for you we are just looking for people who still have that burning desire to find an opportunity that will reward them incredibly well if they work at it to grab a free id and have more information simply go to the web address URL and send me an email with following informtion send me a free membership be sure to include your NUMBER first name NUMBER last name NUMBER email address if different from above we will confirm your position and send you a special report as soon as possible and also your free member number if you are not interested in tring to earn money you are interested in the huge discount from the NUMBER online shops very cheap isp package and many many more you can also go to the web address URL that s all there s to it we ll then send you info and you can make up your own mind looking forward to hearing from you sincerely hugh zou p s after having several negative experiences with network marketing companies i had pretty much given up on them this is different there is value integrity and a real opportunity to have your own home based business and finally make real money on the internet don t pass this up you can sign up and test drive the program for free all you need to do is get your free membership unsubscribing send a blank email to removemefromlist URL with remove in the subject line by submitting a request for a free dhs club membership i agree to accept email from the dhs club for both their consumer and business opportunities NUMBERezftNUMBER NUMBERvptmNUMBERlNUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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we guarantee you signups before you ever pay a penny we will show you the green before you ever take out your wallet sign up for free and test drive our system no obligation whatsoever no time limit on the test drive our system is so powerful that the system enrolled over NUMBER people into my downline the first week to get signed up for free and take a test drive use the link mailto workinathome URL be sure to request info if the subject line does not the national attention drawn by this program will drive this program with incredible momentum don t wait if you wait the next NUMBER people will be above you take your free test drive and have the next NUMBER below you mailto workinathome URL be sure to request info if the subject line does not all the best daniel financially independent home business owner ______________________________________________________ to be excluded from future notices mailto guaranteedNUMBERu URL ,1
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 hello dmm discount mortgage millionaire program a special invitation to wealth help us contact home owners in your city and pocket NUMBER deal easy cash to this e mail is addressed to all people who have tried different internet programs and failed who are tired of working hard but getting nowhere who are unemployed and all those who have jobs but need extra income and all those who are sick and tired of being sick and tired how it works we buy real estate notes and trust deeds we also represent investors who invest in them when you apply you can help us contact home owners in your city and on the internet all you do is call or e mail them or send a simple but powerful letter and form to them to complete and return back to us if they have real estate notes or trust deeds we ll either buy them or refer them to our associates if the deal goes through we pay you NUMBER of whatever net amount we made for example if we made NUMBER NUMBER you ll get NUMBER NUMBER therefore if we do NUMBER deals in a month you will take in an easy NUMBER x NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER rake in big cash without any hard work or large investment or special training we ll give you all the resources needed to make the contacts including the sales letter the e mail letter the forms and the phone script the real estate market one of the primary human needs is security shelter home house wherever you go there are homes houses and buildings therefore real estate market is huge more than NUMBER billion in usa alone that is why opportunities to create vast wealth is always available you may have heard that more than NUMBER of millionaires in usa and probably in other countries also created their wealth through real estate investments well that is half the truth you must know millionaires jealously guarded real estate secrets before you may succeed the way to create vast wealth in real estate is not by buying real estate and holding it until it appreciates in value then you sell it that is the hard way you ll be bogged down by cash flow crunch and all the hassles with tenants and maintenance that is what the majority of real estate investors do it is not fun and it can frustrate and wear you thin discover the millionaires secret of creating vast wealth through real estate investments the smart fast easy and highly profitable way to make millions in real estate is to buy and sell discounted mortgages real estate notes and trust deeds from homeowners that is why we need you by joining us you ll help us contact homeowners in your city and we and our associates will invest in them and do all the work while you get paid about NUMBER of the deal or NUMBER deal without doing any hard work or large investment how to apply this package discount mortgage millionaire dmm program is almost free however we must ask you to donate a token fee of NUMBER this is voluntary this is our way to discourage those who are not serious our time is worth a lot of money we only want to hear from those who are serious if you re interested please follow the simple steps below to apply help us make contacts and we ll spend our money to do the deal and also compensate you handsomely NUMBER of whatever amount we make it is a win win relationship application steps NUMBER write your name address e mail address phone and fax if any on a piece of paper then write the words NUMBER donation for dmm program NUMBER enclose NUMBER usa dollars in cash or money order usa only and send it by priority mail to the name and address below customers from outside usa please buy and send usa dollars cash only mr benney ceo dmm package NUMBER flatbush ave suite NUMBER brooklyn ny NUMBER usa phone NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please mention dmm program code b NUMBER after sending the donation send an e mail and notify us that you have sent it include your full name and phone and put these words in the subject space donation sent for dmm program code b please send the e mail notice to polsewNUMBER URL NUMBER what you shall receive a you ll receive the discount mortgage millionaire dmm package which gives you all the details on how this cash program works including all the resources you need to make contacts for us when you order dmm ebook you will have two choices a you can use our real estate millionaire cash secret dmm ebook to find the deals do them yourself and keep all the money or b you can apply and become our associate mortgage agent ama and participate in our millionaire real estate acquisition plan reap b you ll also receive free details on how to obtain another powerful program that we have quick cash secret banking system the royal road to riches qcsbs rrr you ll discover the jealously guarded NUMBER yrs old millionaire cash secret little known to the general public all you do is go to the secret website on the internet we shall reveal open a special bank account then click your mouse and enter a secret code number then click your mouse again and you ll start making money it takes only minutes to do and you can rake in NUMBER NUMBER wk from this NUMBER legal and valid in all countries of the world no hard work or special training or scam or large investment when you order the dmm package you ll get all the details about this qcsbs rrr also and we ll help you learn and also start using it to create true wealth and success qcsbs millionaire cash system is the fastest and greatest way to make money on earth that is how we obtained the money we want to spend in real estate investments when you get qcsbs it will also help you to create powerful cash flow to acquire real estate and other assets fast when we get your donation we shall send you an e mail to download this dmm ebook from our storage site on the internet so be sure your e mail address is valid and you notify us by e mail after you send the NUMBER donation please allow at least NUMBER weeks after you send the donation so we may receive it when we receive it we ll send an e mail to you to download the dmm ebook we look forward to working with you to help you begin to acquire real estate and cash flow without any headaches hassles or large investments your time to stay at home and make money in real estate deals has come so answer this special invitation today thank you mwc investments international a div of mwc deadline to apply this offer is valid for NUMBER week only please apply within NUMBER week of getting this e mail if you fail you may not be accepted therefore print this e mail now then read it many times to understand and agree to our offer and then place an order now you may get this e mail only once so hurry to avoid missing this fabulous one in a lifetime real estate easy fast cash opportunity start today in less than a year you may be worth about NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER come and join us now unsubscribe info this e mail is not intended for washington state residents and any other anti internet commerce state if you re from any of these states please delete this e mail and don t 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 fortunes are literally being made in this great new marketplace over NUMBER billion in merchandise was sold on ebay in NUMBER by people just like you right from their homes now you too can learn the secrets of successful selling on ebay and make a staggering income from the comfort of your own home if you are motivated capable of having an open mind and can follow simple directions then hyperlink visit us here if server busy hyperlink alternate we are strongly against sending unsolicited emails to those who do not wish to receive our special mailings you have opted in to one or more of our affiliate sites requesting to be notified of any special offers we may run from time to time we also have attained the services of an independent NUMBERrd party to overlook list management and removal services this is not unsolicited email if you do not wish to receive further mailings please hyperlink go here to be removed from the list please accept our apologies if you have been sent this email in error charset iso NUMBER NUMBER ,1
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help wanted we are a NUMBER year old fortune NUMBER company that is growing at a tremendous rate we are looking for individuals who want to work from home this is an opportunity to make an excellent income no experience is required we will train you so if you are looking to be employed from home with a career that has vast opportunities then go URL we are looking for energetic and self motivated people if that is you than click on the link and fill out the form and one of our employment specialist will contact you to be removed from our link simple go to URL NUMBERccywNUMBER NUMBERodytNUMBERmnnuNUMBER NUMBERyrixNUMBERyuryNUMBER NUMBERnnabNUMBERdytaNUMBER NUMBERgvjiNUMBERlNUMBER ,1
hi URL you get emails every day offering to show you how to make money most of these emails are from people who are not making any money and they expect you to listen to them enough if you want to make money with your computer then you should hook up with a group that is actually doing it we are making a large continuing income every month what s more we will show you how to do the same thing this business is done completely by internet and email and you can even join for free to check it out first if you can send an email you can do this no special skills are required how much are we making anywhere from NUMBER to NUMBER per month we are real people and most of us work at this business part time but keep in mind we do work at it i am not going to insult your intelligence by saying you can sign up do no work and rake in the cash that kind of job does not exist but if you are willing to put in NUMBER NUMBER hours per week this might be just the thing you are looking for this is not income that is determined by luck or work that is done for you it is all based on your effort but as i said there are no special skills required and this income is residual meaning that it continues each month and it tends to increase each month also interested i invite you to find out more you can get in as a free member at no cost and no obligation to continue if you decide it is not for you we are just looking for people who still have that burning desire to find an opportunity that will reward them incredibly well if they work at it to grab a free id and have more information simply go to the web address URL and send me an email with following information send me a free membership be sure to include your NUMBER first name NUMBER last name NUMBER email address if different from above we will confirm your position and send you a special report as soon as possible and also your free member number if you are not interested in tring to earn money you are interested in the huge discount from the NUMBER online shops very cheap isp package and many many more you can also go to the web address URL that s all there s to it we ll then send you info and you can make up your own mind looking forward to hearing from you sincerely hugh zou p s after having several negative experiences with network marketing companies i had pretty much given up on them this is different there is value integrity and a real opportunity to have your own home based business and finally make real money on the internet don t pass this up you can sign up and test drive the program for free all you need to do is get your free membership unsubscribing send a blank email to removemefromlist URL with remove in the subject line by submitting a request for a free dhs club membership i agree to accept email from the dhs club for both their consumer and business opportunities NUMBERsyjyNUMBER NUMBERbumdNUMBERmrudNUMBER NUMBERpiioNUMBERfevpNUMBER NUMBERqxvwNUMBERolNUMBER irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ s p e c i a l r e p o r t how to reliably generate hundreds of leads and prospects every week _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ our research has found that many online entrepreneurs have tried one or more of the following free classifieds don t work anymore web site takes thousands of surfers banners expensive and losing their punch e zine hope they have a huge subscriber list search engines forget it unless you re in the top NUMBER s o w h a t d o e s w o r k although often misunderstood there is one method that has proven to succeed time after time e m a i l m a r k e t i n g does the thought of NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER per year make you tingle with excitement many of our customers make that and more click here to find out how a href http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER seinet veriNUMBER http http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER seinet veriNUMBER a here s what the experts have to say about e mail marketing a gold mine for those who can take advantage of bulk e mail programs the new york times e mail is an incredible lead generation tool crains magazine click here to find out how you can do it a href http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER seinet veriNUMBER http http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER seinet veriNUMBER a if you no longer wish to hear about future offers from us send us a message with stop in the subject line by clicking here mailto listNUMBER URL please do not include any correspondence in your message to this automatic stop robot it will not be read all requests processed automatically NUMBER poNUMBER kj _NUMBERjNUMBERbjkNUMBER h t ,1
protect your financial well being purchase an extended auto warranty for your car today click here for a free no obligation quote URL car troubles always seem to happen at the worst possible time protect yourself and your family with a quality extended warranty for your car truck or suv so that a large expense cannot hit you all at once we cover most vehicles with less than NUMBER NUMBER miles buy direct our prices are NUMBER NUMBER less we offer fair prices and prompt toll free claims service get an extended warranty quote for your car today warranty plan also includes NUMBER NUMBER hour roadside assistance NUMBER rental benefit NUMBER trip interruption intervention NUMBER extended towing benefit click here for a free no obligation quote URL to easily remove your address from the list go to URL please allow NUMBER NUMBER hours for removal ,1
mr vincent nnaji standard trust bank ltd lagos nigeria dear sir i am mr vincent nnaji bank manager of standard trust bank lagos nigeria i have urgent and very confidential business proposition for you on january NUMBER NUMBER a foreign oil consultant foreign contractor with the nigerian national petroleum corporation mr james herbert made a numbered time fixed deposit for twelve calendar months valued at us NUMBERm twenty million united states dollars in my branch upon maturity i sent a routine notification to his forwarding address but got no reply after a month we sent a reminder and finally we discovered from his contract employers the nigerian national petroleum corporation that mr james herbert died from an automobile accident on further investigation i found out that he died without making a will and all attempts to trace his next of kin was fruitless i therefore made further investigation and discovered that mr james herbert did not declare any next of kin or relations in all his official documents including his bank deposit paperwork in my bank this sum of us NUMBERm has carefully been moved out of my bank to a security company for safe keeping no one will ever come forward to claim it according to nigerian law at the expiration of NUMBER years the money will revert to the ownership of the nigerian government if nobody applies to claim the fund consequently my proposal is that i will like you as a foreigner to stand in as the owner of the money i deposited it in a security company in two trunk boxes though the security company does not know the contents of the boxes as i tagged them to be photographic materials for export i am writing you because i as a public servant i cannot operate a foreign account or have an account that is more than NUMBERm i want to present you as the owner of the boxes in the security company so you can be able to claim them with the help of my attorney all these are to make sure that the fruits of this old man s labour will not get into the hands of some corrupt government officials this is simple i will like you to provide immediately your full names and address so that the attorney will prepare the necessary documents which will put you in place as the owner of the boxes the money will be shared in the ratio of NUMBER for me and NUMBER for you and NUMBER will take care of all expenses there is no risk at all as all the paperwork for this transaction will be done by the attorney and this will guarantee the successful execution of this transaction if you are interested please reply immediately via my private email address upon your response i shall then provide you with more details and relevant documents that will help you understand the transaction please observe with utmost confidentiality and be rest assured that this transaction would be most profitable for both of us because i shall require your assistance to invest my share in your country awaiting your urgent reply via my private email to indicate your interest thanks and regards mr vincent nnaji ,1
dear sir with due respect and humility i write you this letter which i believe you would be of great assistance to my children and i i got your contact through my husband commercial address book and believed that you must be a trust worthy and reliable person that will not like to intimidate me or betray my trust after hearing this news i am a native of konobo in the kerema local district of sierra leone in west africa and the wife of late dr mundi a kojo who was assassinated by the rebel forced loyal to major john paul koromah because he was the director general national gold and diamond mining corporation of sierra leone few days before my husband was assassinated he instructed me and my children ibrahim and amina to move out of sierra leone immediately before the powerful economic community of west african states ecomog forces intervened which eventually resulted into a brutal civil war my children and i managed to escape to togo through the help of my husband s friend we came into togo with some valuables including a cash sum of NUMBERmillion twenty five million united states dollars only in two trunks boxes which i have deposited with a trust company here in togo and special arrangement has been made with the currier company who will freight the money to your country meanwhile i want to leave togo entirely with this money for investment in your country because of a stable political situation there and mostly for the future of my children i want you to please assist us to claim this fund from the trust company in any of their branches in europe after which the fund will be deposited into your account for investment in your country you should also help us to source for good investment opportunity so that we can invest wisely in your country when the fund is finally confirmed in your account we have it in mind to reward you handsomely for your assistance as we have resolved to give you NUMBER of the total sum for your help but due to how i am being monitored by the sierra leonean government secret agents i will advice you to have the deal concluded with my son ibrahim kojo please contact my son on this email ibrahimkojo URL immediately you receive this letter to enable us proceed in earnest towards retrieving the consignments and transferring same into your account your private fax and phone is needed in this transaction for private discussions note there is no risk involved in this business remain blessed mrs anne kojo ,1
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 free personal and business grants qualify for at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grants money guaranteed each day over one million dollars in free government grants is given away to people just like you for a wide variety of business and personal needs dear grant seeker in a moment i ll tell you exactly how where to get grants this money has to be given away why not to you you may be thinking how can i get some of this free grants money maybe you think it s impossible to get free money let me tell you it s not impossible it s a fact ordinary people and businesses all across the united states are receiving millions of dollars from these government and private foundation s everyday who can apply anyone can apply for a grant from NUMBER years old and up grants from NUMBER NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER are possible grants don t have to be paid back ever claim your slice of the free american pie this money is not a loan trying to get money through a conventional bank can be very time consuming and requires a lot of paperwork only to find out that you ve been denied these government agencies don t have to operate under the same stringent requirements that banks do you decide how much money you need as long as it s a lawful amount and meets with the government agencies criteria the money is yours to keep and never has to be repaid this money is non taxable interest free none of these programs require a credit check collateral security deposits or co signers you can apply even if you have a bankruptcy or bad credit it doesn t matter you as a tax payer and u s citizen are entitled to this money there are currently over NUMBER NUMBER federal programs NUMBER NUMBER state programs NUMBER NUMBER private foundations and NUMBER NUMBER scholarship programs available this year over NUMBER billion dollars in free personal and business government grants money will be given away by government grants agencies government personal and business grants facts over NUMBER million people get government money every year NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER entrepreneurs get money to start or expand a business NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get money to invest in real estate NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get money to go to college NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER people get free help and training for a better job getting business grants anyone thinking about going into business for themselves or wanting to expand an existing business should rush for the world s largest one stop money shop where free business grants to start or expand a business is being held for you by the federal government it sounds absolutely incredible that people living right here in the united states of america wouldn t know that each year the world s largest source of free business help delivers over NUMBER billion dollars in free business grants and low interest loans over one half trillion dollars in procurement contracts and over NUMBER billion dollars in free consulting and research grants with an economy that remains unpredictable and a need for even greater economic development on all fronts the federal government is more willing than it ever has been before to give you the money you need to own your own business and become your own boss in spite of the perception that people should not look to the government for help the great government give away programs have remained so incredibly huge that if each of the approximately NUMBER million businesses applied for an equal share they would each receive over NUMBER NUMBER most people never apply for free business grants because they somehow feel it isn t for them feel there s too much red tape or simply don t know who to contact the fact is however that people from all walks of life do receive free grants money and other benefits from the government and you should also government grants for personal need help to buy a new home for low income families repair your home rent mortgage payments utility bills purchase a new car groceries childcare fuel general living expenses academic tutoring clothing school supplies housing assistance legal services summer camp debts music lessons art lessons any extracurricular activities pay bills for senior citizens real estate taxes medical expenses and general welfare if you or someone you know suffered a fire lose there are programs available to help in replacing necessities scholarships and grants for education grant money for preschool children and nursery school education private primary and secondary schools men and women to further their education scholarships for athlete s business management engineering computer science medical school undergraduate graduate professional foreign studies and many more here s how you can get free grants in the shortest time possible once you know how and where to apply for a specific free grant results are almost inevitable the government wants to give away this money it is under congressional mandate to do so these funds are made available to help you the tax payer all that s required from you is the proper presentation of your grant request that s all announcing the complete guide to government grants forget just about everything you ve seen or heard about government grants what i ve done is put together a complete blueprint for researching locating and obtaining government grants the complete guide to government grants is the most comprehensive tool for obtaining free grant money and it comes in an electronic book e book format meaning you can download and start using it minutes after you order the complete guide to government grants will provide you with access to thousands of grant and loan sources with step by step instructions to proposal writing and contact procedures in the complete guide to government grants you ll find step by step guidelines to applying for government grants direct access to over NUMBER NUMBER grant loan and assistance programs offered by the u s federal government all you need to do is click find your program from the detailed categorized listings direct access to thousands of resources of state specific grant programs name phone number and address of an expert in your state that will answer your grant related questions and help you with the grant application free of charge online directory of government supported venture capital firms a unique search tool that will allow you to generate a customized listing of recently announced grant programs government funding programs for small businesses top NUMBER government programs based on number of inquiries discover what are the most sought after government grants and assistant programs claim your slice of the free american pie online directory of federal and state resources for government scholarships and grants for education step by step guidelines to locating grants loans and assistant programs for starting a new business or expanding an existing one how to get free small business counseling and expert advice courtesy of the us government government grants application forms direct access to thousands of government grants programs covering small businesses home improvement home buying and homeownership land acquisition site preparation for housing health assistance and services for the unemployed job training federal employment education and much much more how to develop and write grant proposals that get results plus much more the complete guide to government grants is so comprehensive it provides you with direct access to practically every source of free government grants money currently available if you re an american citizen or resident you are entitled to free grant money ranging from NUMBER to NUMBER NUMBER or more if you are black you have already qualified for NUMBER programs being hispanic you qualify for many programs being a christian will get you into NUMBER programs there are also many other programs available for different faiths jewish catholic not having any money will get you into over NUMBER programs NUMBER programs if you are unemployed or underemployed the list and sources are endless you are eligible this money is absolutely free and will be yours to use for any worthwhile purpose did you know you can apply for as many grants as you want it s true for instance you could get a NUMBER NUMBER grant to begin a weight loss business get NUMBER NUMBER in tuition to become a nurse or NUMBER NUMBER to open up the day care center you ve always dreamed of owning and then go out and apply for a grant to buy a home for you and your family and once your new business starts doing well you could go out and get another grant for expansion of your business the possibilities are endless you must qualify for at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grants money or your money back we are so confident in our grants guide that if you have not received at least NUMBER NUMBER in free grant money or if you are unhappy with our e book for any reason within the next NUMBER months just send the e book back and we will refund your entire payment no questions asked if you want to order we insist you do so entirely at our risk that is why the e book comes with a no risk full year money back guarantee there is absolutely no risk on your part with this NUMBER day guarantee what we mean is we want you to order without feeling you might get taken therefore we want you to order this material today read it use it and if for any reason you aren t completely satisfied you not only can cancel you should for an immediate refund of your purchase price you simply can t lose free bonuses just to sweeten the deal i ll include the following four valuable bonuses that you can keep as a gift even if you later decide not to keep the grants guide free bonus NUMBER a fully featured grants writing tutorial software package this info alone is worth thousands of dollars i guarantee you can purchase a grants cd or info anywhere and you will not receive this downloadable software that actually shows you how to apply and what to say so that you are accepted for a grant this interactive software tool will walk you through the grant writing process and will teach you everything you need to know to write competitive grants proposals the program includes detailed information and tips on writing grants proposals how to complete a grant application package examples of good complete grant packages a glossary of grants terms resources and contacts a mock grants writing activity where you will be able to compare your results to a successful grant application plus much much more free bonus NUMBER the insider information report NUMBER ways to save money this valuable special report contains insider experts tips and techniques that will help you to save thousands of dollars you ll discover little known secrets and tricks to saving money on airline fares car rental new and used car buying auto leasing gasoline car repairs auto insurance life insurance savings and investment credit cards home equity loans home purchase major appliances home heating telephone services food purchase prescription drugs and more free bonus NUMBER the complete guide to starting your own business a comprehensive manual that will give you all the guidelines and tools you need to start and succeed in a business of your own packed with guides forms worksheets and checklists you will be amazed at how simple these strategies and concepts are and how easy it will be for you to apply them to your own business idea hundreds were sold separately at NUMBER each you get it here for free here s just a taste of what s in the guide how to determine the feasibility of your business idea a complete fill in the blanks template system that will help you predict problems before they happen and keep you from losing your shirt on dog business ideas a step by step explanation of how to develop a business plan that will make bankers prospective partners and investors line up at your door plus a complete ready made business plan template you can easily adapt to your exact needs discover the easiest simplest ways to find new products for your business that people are anxious to buy how to make money with your new idea or invention secrets of making sure you put cash in your pocket on your very first idea business venture complete step by step instructions on how to plan and start a new business this is must know must do information ignore it and you stand a good chance to fail you get specifically designed instructions for each of the following a service business a retail store a home based business a manufacturing company and more what nobody ever told you about raising venture capital money insider secrets of attracting investors how to best construct your proposal common mistakes and traps to avoid and much more checklist for entering into a partnership keeps you from costly mistakes when forming a partnership how to select a franchise business a step by step guide to selecting a franchise that is best for you a complete step by step organized program for cutting costs in your business clients of mine have achieved an average of NUMBER to NUMBER cost reduction with this technique and you can too keep the money in your pocket with this one what are the secrets behind constructing a results driven marketing plan i will lead you step by step into developing a marketing plan that will drive your sales through the roof a complete step by step guide guaranteed to help you increase your profits by up to NUMBER i call it the profit planning guide this is a simple practical common sense strategy but amazingly enough almost no one understands or uses it free bonus NUMBER guide to home business success this is a fast no frills guide to starting and succeeding in a home based business here s just a taste of what s in the guide home business is it for you what are the secrets behind the people who have million dollar home based businesses you ll find a NUMBER tip list proven to turn your home business into a money machine laws and regulations you must be aware of to avoid legal errors planning a home based business insider secrets and tips revealed for ensuring your success in a home business fundamentals of home business financial planning simple easy to copy ideas that will enhance your image and the response you get from your customers common problems in starting and managing a home based business and how to solve them once and for all who i am and why i m qualified to give you the best grants advice available i m the president of a leading internet based information business i m also the creator of the managing a small business cd rom and the author of five books i ve been involved in obtaining grants and in small business for the past NUMBER years of my life as a business coach a manager of a consulting firm a seminar leader and as the owner of five successful businesses during my career as a business coach and consultant i ve helped dozens of business owners obtain government grants start their businesses market expand get out of troubles sell their businesses and do practically every other small business activity you can think of the guide presented here contains every tip trick technique and strategy i ve learned during my NUMBER year career you practically get my whole brain in a form of an e book how the grants guide is priced the complete guide to government grants is normally priced at NUMBER but as part of an online marketing test if you purchase from this sale you pay only NUMBER NUMBER that s NUMBER off plus you still get the free valuable bonuses if you are serious about obtaining free grants money you need this guide don t delay a moment longer order now p s the complete guide to government grants will make a huge difference you risk nothing the guide is not the original price of NUMBER but only NUMBER NUMBER if you purchase through this sale and comes with a one year money back guarantee and you get four valuable free bonuses which you may keep regardless don t delay a moment longer order now shipping and handling is free since we will email you all of this info via access to our secure website which contains everything described above hyperlink order now hyperlink hyperlink NUMBEReewqNUMBER NUMBERwkuuNUMBERiwybNUMBER NUMBERlkqxNUMBERjuxpNUMBER NUMBERcvdbNUMBERhhlNUMBER ,1
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here is an excerpt from your local newspaper a recent interview with a curious computer user q is my computer supposed run this slow a no your computer should be as fast as the day you purchased it the solution to your problem is norton systemworks NUMBER q i think have a virus what do i do a quick before the virus spreads and infects your entire system you must get a copy of norton systemworks NUMBER q i am worried that i may lose my data if my computer crashes how do i backup my data safely and easily a everything for your data backup is included in norton systemworks NUMBER q i occasionally need to send a fax with my computer what will make this easier for me a winfax the easiest to use fax software available is also included in norton systemworks NUMBER q this systemworks NUMBER sounds like it does alot for my computer can anyone use this software a yes it is easy to use and tech support is included norton systemworks NUMBER is the best software available on the market and helps you and your pc have a better relationship q ok but wait it must cost a ton of money right a well usually yes but this is a special offer it sells at your local computer store for NUMBER but it is available for a limited time for only NUMBER NUMBER free shipping q what a deal so how do i order a to order click here http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER systemworkseNUMBER htm q great thanks q one more question how do i get removed from this darn email list a that is not a problem click here http NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER removeme html and you will be removed within the legal period of NUMBER business days isapp opp code djt NUMBER ,1
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dear sir madam i am well confident of your capability to assist me in a transaction for mutual benefit of both parties ie me and you i am also believing that you will not expose or betray the trust and confidence i am about to establish with you i have decided to contact you with greatest delight and personal respect well i am victor sankoh son to mr foday sankoh who was arrested by the ecomog peace keeping force months ago in my country sierra leone few days before the arrest of my father he confided in me and ordered me to go to his underground safe and move out immediately with a deposit agreement and cash receipt he made with a security company in abidjan cote d ivoire where he deposited one iron box containing usd NUMBER million dollars cash twenty two million dollars this money was made from the sell of gold and diamond by my father and he have already decided to use this money for future investment of the family before his arrest thereafter i rushed down to abidjan with these documents and confirmed the deposit of the box by my father also i have been granted political stay as a refugee by the government of c te d ivoire meanwhile my father have instructed me to look for a trusted foreigner who can assist me to move out this money from c te d ivoire immediately for investment based on this i solicit for your assistance to transfer this fund into your account but i will demand for the following requirement NUMBER could you provide for me a safe bank account where this fund will be transferred to in your country or another neaarby country where taxation will not takegreat toll on the money NUMBER could you be able to assist me to obtain my travelling papers after this transfer to enable me come over to meet you in your country for theinvestment of this money NUMBER could you be able to introduce me to a profitable business venture that would not require much technical expertise in your country where part of this fund willbe invested please all these requirements are urgently needed as it will enable me to establish a stronger business relationship with you hence i will like you to be the general overseer of the investment thereafter i am a christian and i will please want you to handle this transaction based on the trust i have established on you for your assistance in this transaction i have decided to offer you NUMBER percent commission of the total amount at the end of this business the security of this business is very important to me and as such i would like you to keep this business very confidential i shall be expecting your urgent reply thank you and god bless you victor sankoh irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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affordable domain registration for everyone the new domain names are finally available to the general public at discount prices now you can register one of the exciting new biz or info domain names as well as the original com and net names for just NUMBER NUMBER these brand new domain extensions were recently approved by icann and have the same rights as the original com and net domain names the biggest benefit is of course that the biz and info domain names are currently more available i e it will be much easier to register an attractive and easy to remember domain name for the same price visit URL today for more info register your domain name today for just NUMBER NUMBER at URL registration fees include full access to an easy to use control panel to manage your domain name in the future sincerely domain administrator domains for everyone to remove your email address from further promotional mailings from this company click here URL fNUMBER NUMBERvuklNUMBER NUMBERqvfqNUMBERflcgNUMBER NUMBERtlNUMBER ,1
 hyperlink hyperlink hyperlink hyperlink make money with your own free stuff website get your own free stuff website with URL there is no need to learn any programming skills your store is automatically set up for you of course you are welcome to customize your store using the tools offered in the owner s back office optional customization includes adding your own logo and changing color schemes you may also add as many as NUMBER stores to your account at no additional charge access to hundreds of free products URL is always on the lookout for new free products to add to the warehouse every time a new product is located it is automatically added to your store in the appropriate category when your customers order products they are shipped from our warehouse directly to your customers there is no inventory for you to manage ever hyperlink act now and receive a brand new NUMBER NUMBER ghz gateway computer monthly commissions you earn NUMBER for every free item ordered by your customers in your back office you have access to statistics which will tell you exactly how many customers you had in your store each day how many items were purchased and most importantly how much commission you earned hyperlink hyperlink true make money while you sleep business you are receiving this mailing because you are a member of URL and subscribed as jm URL to unsubscribe hyperlink click here URL or reply to this email with remove in the subject line you must also include the body of this message to be unsubscribed any correspondence about the products services should be directed to the company in the ad em jm URL em ,1
there is no stumbling on to it the greatest way of marketing this century is undoubtedly direct e mail it s similar to the postman delivering a letter to your mailbox the ability to promote your product service website or mlm network marketing opportunity to millions instantly is what advertisers have been dreaming of for over NUMBER years we e mail your one page promotion to a list of our general addresses the greatest part is it s completely affordable e mail marketing is the answer how do we know we know because that s exactly what we do it s a proven fact that you can attract new business through direct e mail marketing the profits that e mail advertising generate are amazing we are living proof we are a direct e mail internet advertising company and our clients pay us thousands of dollars a week to e mail their products and services we don t want any one spending thousands on a direct email marketing campane with out testing the market to see how it works standard pricing and procedures extracting our list of general internet addreses are actually extracted from the most popular web sites on the internet the addresses are verified and run through our purification process the process includes addresses run against our custom remove filter of NUMBER NUMBER keywords as well as through our NUMBERmb remove flamer list the edu org gov mil and us domains are removed as well as other domains that asked not to receive e mail evaluation NUMBER NUMBER optional one of our marketing specialists will evaluate your sales letter and offer his her expertise on how to make it the most successful standard pricing emails delivered NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER million up NUMBER NUMBER per special offer this introductory offer of NUMBER NUMBER includes NUMBER set up fee NUMBER evaluation of sales letter NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mails delivered payment policy all services must be paid in full prior to delivery of advertisement notice absolutely no threatening or questionable materials if you are serious about direct email marketing fax the following to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please fill this form out completely contact name _____________________________________________ business name ______________________________________ years in business _________________________ business type ______________________________________ address _________________________________________________ city ____________________ state ______ zip ______________ country _______________ email address _______________________________________________ phone __________________________ fax _______________________ no toll free phone s to get out from our email database send an email to mailto publicserviceNUMBER URL ,1
there is no stumbling on to it the greatest way of marketing this century is undoubtedly direct e mail it s similar to the postman delivering a letter to your mailbox the ability to promote your product service website or mlm network marketing opportunity to millions instantly is what advertisers have been dreaming of for over NUMBER years we e mail your one page promotion to a list of our general addresses the greatest part is it s completely affordable e mail marketing is the answer how do we know we know because that s exactly what we do it s a proven fact that you can attract new business through direct e mail marketing the profits that e mail advertising generate are amazing we are living proof we are a direct e mail internet advertising company and our clients pay us thousands of dollars a week to e mail their products and services we don t want any one spending thousands on a direct email marketing campane with out testing the market to see how it works standard pricing and procedures extracting our list of general internet addreses are actually extracted from the most popular web sites on the internet the addresses are verified and run through our purification process the process includes addresses run against our custom remove filter of NUMBER NUMBER keywords as well as through our NUMBERmb remove flamer list the edu org gov mil and us domains are removed as well as other domains that asked not to receive e mail evaluation NUMBER NUMBER optional one of our marketing specialists will evaluate your sales letter and offer his her expertise on how to make it the most successful standard pricing emails delivered NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER million NUMBER NUMBER per NUMBER million up NUMBER NUMBER per special offer this introductory offer of NUMBER NUMBER includes NUMBER set up fee NUMBER evaluation of sales letter NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER e mails delivered payment policy all services must be paid in full prior to delivery of advertisement notice absolutely no threatening or questionable materials if you are serious about direct email marketing fax the following to NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER please fill this form out completely contact name _____________________________________________ business name ______________________________________ years in business _________________________ business type ______________________________________ address _________________________________________________ city ____________________ state ______ zip ______________ country _______________ email address _______________________________________________ phone __________________________ fax _______________________ no toll free phone s to get out from our email database send an email to publicserviceNUMBER URL ,1
 what does it mean to be made in the usa cna is hitting the road to tell you about ingenuity innovative products and gutsy spirit we encourage you to attend the cna american road show you ll get an insider s glimpse of cna s new products a revolutionary long term care an innovative annuity and a ground breaking new cna term that ll dominate the market cna management will also share profitable ideas discuss service and distribution strategies and unveil exciting incentive programs NUMBER NUMBER a m coffee and rolls NUMBER NUMBER a m NUMBER NUMBER p m road show presentations oct NUMBER new orleans la hilton new orleans airport NUMBER airline drive kenner la oct NUMBER houston tx marriott houston bush iah NUMBER john f kennedy blvd oct NUMBER dallas tx marriott suites dallas market center NUMBER n stemmons fwy oct NUMBER pittsburgh pa pittsburgh marriott city center NUMBER washington place oct NUMBER baltimore md bwi airport marriott NUMBER west nursery rd oct NUMBER chicago il marriott chicago o hare NUMBER west higgins rd oct NUMBER seattle wa doubletree hotel seattle airport NUMBER pacific hwy south oct NUMBER salt lake city ut hilton salt lake city airport NUMBER wiley post way oct NUMBER phoenix az embassy suites phoenix airport NUMBER n NUMBERth street oct NUMBER nashville tn sheraton music city NUMBER mcgavock pike oct NUMBER kansas city mo embassy suites kci NUMBER nw tiffany springs pkwy oct NUMBER st louis mo marriott st louis airport i NUMBER at lambert airport oct NUMBER minneapolis mn marriott minneapolis airport NUMBER east NUMBERth street nov NUMBER charlotte nc renaissance charlotte suites hotel NUMBER coliseum centre drive nov NUMBER hartford ct hartford windsor marriott airport NUMBER day hill road windsor ct nov NUMBER los angeles ca marriott warner center NUMBER oxnard st woodland hills nov NUMBER orange county ca marriott irvine john wayne airport NUMBER west higgins rd NUMBER vonkarman ave nov NUMBER san diego ca marriott san diego mission valley NUMBER san diego drive nov NUMBER san francisco ca santa clara marriott NUMBER mission college blvd santa clara nov NUMBER sacramento ca marriott sacramento NUMBER point east drive rancho cordova ca nov NUMBER atlanta ga marriott atlanta northwest NUMBER interstate north parkway nov NUMBER tampa fl hilton garden inn tampa north NUMBER tampa oaks blvd the cna american road show is the must attend meeting of the year visit URL for more information or please fill out the form below for more information name e mail phone city state cna cna life and cna ltc are registered service marks trade names and domain names of cna financial corporation cna life insurance and annuity products are underwritten by valley forge life insurance company and in new york continental assurance company cna long term care products are underwritten by continental casualty company and valley forge life insurance company all products and their features may not be available in all states mxNUMBER NUMBER NUMBER URL for producer use only we don t want anybody to receive our mailing who does not wish to receive them this is a professional communication sent to insurance professionals to be removed from this mailing list do not reply to this message instead go here URL legal notice URL ,1
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uncommon exotic pleasure botanicals feeling marvelous mood sensitive mood enhancing depressive regressive sweet treat forumulations for the pleasuring and well being of body mind spirit from the planet s foremost sensitive ethnobotanical cooperative exotic botanical resources product descriptions pricing and deep discounted intro offers information below seventh heaven sweet treat menu NUMBER shangrila zowie wowie tm gnarly sweet grass absolutely the most significant legal personal choice non cannabis non marijuana non tobacco smoking botanical on the planet NUMBER prosaka tm high ratio extracts in tablet form for calm balance serenity peaceful living NUMBER aqueous kathmandu tm happy drops personal choice enhanced sensitivity for non smokers tokers NUMBER sweet vjestika tm aphrodisia drops erotica intimacy sensitivity enhancement at its finest for men woman NUMBER gentle ferocity tm viripotent energization appetite suppression tablets without the inclusion of caffeine or mahaung herb or ephedrine NUMBER capillaris herba tm a sedate smoking and or brewing happiness botanical shangrila zowie wowie tm personal choice primo exotic supplemental smoking botanical gnarly sweetgrass variety supplemental agenda seventh heaven paradoxical configuration for the significant enhancement and pleasuring of body mind spirit sensitivities potentiated gnarly whole plant matrix paragonic reserve enigmatic blendage mood sensitive responsive smoking brewing herba actions indications simultaneous high spirited stimulation relaxation aphrodisia significant paradise consequence this is the personal choice sensitive responsive smoking smoka product we have wanting to offer this is the product and the value that you have been searching for this is the product that you will buy again again we have been in the business science of developing non cannabis personal choice sensitive smoking agendas for a good goodly while along this avenue of ethnobotany we have always strived to achieve greater and greater sensitivity responsiveness aphrodisia within our gourmet smokables and brews and indeed we have many of these previous products are still marketed today by companies who are less developmental than our botanical resource cooperative even our own two signature smokables ragga dagga stoney mahoney are being discontinued that shangrila zowie wowie is by far such a superior product is undeniable therefore it makes no sense to us at all to offer any other smoking product quite simply we have surpassed even our own expectations of excellence thereby our definition of excellence has evolved this shangrila project has been in research and development for sometime on two fronts first on an agricultural level fields for our gnarly sweetgrass must be planted and be allowed to propagate for several years before initial harvest can even be undertaken this is how the botanical achieves potent significance much like the regimen of ginseng also harvest time is limited and can take place only twice a year as like the hemp plant maximum potency is only achieved after flowering occurs but unlike the hemp plant and for that matter unlike most herbs the entire base plant of shangrila zowie wowie leave stem root is all viripotent which makes this gnarly stoke a botanical phenomenon as well most potentiating factors of shangrila as well as the primary botanical factor of shangrila will not achieve viripotency if grown in our hemisphere therefore shangrila is indeed a multi national multi complicated agricultural undertaking however all of this undertaking has indeed been worthwhile secondly the potentiating infusion regimen used to enhance the attributes of shangrila has also taken a lon g time to bring into potent fruition as there are many balancings of the various molecular factors involved in the completion of zowie wowie we are most pleased to be able to say as you will note in the experience of shangrila zowie wowie that this process has achieved fruition suffice to say without any hype or glype shangrila zowie wowie gnarly sweetgrass is without a doubt the most significant non invasive non cannabis sensitive responsive personal choice absolutely legal cannot fail a drug test smoking smoka botanical on our planet probably in the universe hard to believe that this product is absolutely legal mill stoned honed depressive regressive psychologically uplifting good bye stress anxiety restlessness sophisticated well balanced ambiance inspires contemplativeness and creativity potentiated viripotent NUMBER NUMBER draws lasts a good goodly while sweet aphrodisia horny goat weed factoring simultaneously uplifting and relaxing easy ignition smooth draw sweet heady taste easy on easy off satisfaction guaranteed no munchie factor no failed drug tests shangrila zowie wowie tm gnarly sweetgrass botanical is best utilized as a viri potent smoka via an herb pipe as is an herbalist s way four or five draws of smoka should be inhaled and retained for the non smoker it is most appropriate to engage this herbaceousness as a potentiated tea brew steep approximately one teaspoon of shangrila zowie wowie tm herba per one cup of water for ten minutes or so strain when smoking shangrila zowie wowie tm please draw gently as it is a most preeminent sensitive responsive smoke both a personal water pipe huuka water pipe is included with quarter pound can only and a standard herb pipe are included for your smoking convenience and delight smoke and brew concurrently is absolutely a sweet sensitive treat shangrila zowie wowie tm sensitive responsive smoka includes and is potentiated with the following non irradiated mill stoned honed exotica botanicals and botanical essences half edged lily rare bian lian lobeline factors kona lactuca virosa yucatan turnera aphrodisaca hawaiian vervain maui strain siberian leonorus sibricus rare lotus leaf jamaican blue verbena officinalis spanish peumus crocus sativa chinese flowering tops only horny goat weed ginko biloba african cola vera and african wilde dagga flowering tops only shangrila zowie wowie tm does not include any tobacco or any cannabis factors shangrila zowie wowie tm does indeed achieve gourmet distinction upon its own merit shangrila zowie wowie tm is not intended for use during work or while driving nor should it be enjoyed during pregnancy in addition although no factor in shangrila zowie wowie tm is illegal or regulated it is the ethical policy of exotic botanical resources that shangrila zowie wowie tm not be sold or offered to any person that has not attained at least NUMBER years of age all things in their time shangrila zowie wowie pricing one NUMBER oz bag incl herb pipe only NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping one NUMBER oz q p c quarter pound can incl herb pipe personal brass hookah NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping also included as an added bonus with each q p c purchase is a free NUMBER oz package of our capillaris herba see intro offers at bottom of this text for further savings prosaka tm high ratio extracts in tablet form for calm balance serenity peaceful living this prosaka formulation which we have just recently further potentiated boasts an extremely loyal and abundant patronage having been available to market at large now for a number of years prosaka botanical tablets were originally introduced as a botanical supplemental alternative to various traditional medications that are prescribed for stress anxiety depressiveness mood enhancement insomnia excessive dream activity etc we like to use this analogy imagine the circumstances of your life to be hurricane ish certainly prosaka will not stop the wind from blowing however it will help to center you within the calm eye of your hurricane so that you will better see your living and make your decisions from a calmer more serene more balanced perspective please note that when undertaking any supplemental herbal regimen in this arena it is important to make a personal commitment to the therapy it would make no sense to purchase prosaka and to take it only sporadic ally or only briefly it is for this reason although prosaka is a very expensive formulation to produce that we offer NUMBER count containers at as much of a reduced price as we are able to offer prosaka is an exclusive proprietary amalgamation in tablet form which includes the following uncommon botanicals extracts flower top essences and essential oils radix salviae sensitive mimosa bark arillus euphoriae shizandra frutcus mori caulis polygoni zizyohus tang kuei cedar seed sweetflag rhizome cuscutae amber radix scutellariae evodia longan arisaema cistanches radix polygalae red sage root and eucommia no factor contained within prosaka is restricted or regulated by law all botanicals contained within are non irradiated and are of pharmaceutical grade suggested usage NUMBER NUMBER tablets NUMBER to NUMBER times per day as needed best taken on an empty stomach during times of intensity up to NUMBER tablets per day may be utilized also note prosaka is not intended to supercede physician s care nor is it intended for use during pregnancy prosaka pricing one NUMBER count bag NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping one NUMBER count container NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping for larger quantities please inquire see intro offers at bottom of this text for further savings aqueous kathmandu tm happy drops personal choice enhanced sensitivity for non smokers tokers aqueous kathmandu has only been offered to market at large for a short while however in a short time this product has achieved a tremendous very happy following aqueous kathmandu tm sensitive responsive happiness drops temple quantum variety indeed a happiness brew from the kathmandu a k a secret fire from a toke smoke point of view if you know what i mean and be groovin the scene who du the kathmandu now everybody can du the kathmandu that is if you re NUMBER years of age or older aqueous kathmandu is engaged to holistically inspire and instill sensitive responsive happiness and mellowness without the detriment of carcinogenic inhalation smoking aqueous kathmandu is absolutely legal and does not contain any controlled considered to be harmful or regulated herbs or cannabis marijuana factors as smoking has become so socially taboo over the years and as so many people have asked us for a liquid product we have long strived to bring a quantum factored concentrated liquid product to fruition this has been no easy task for a variety of botanical and technological reasons finally we are able to say that this task has been accomplished a sensitive herbal botanical awakening if you will as we have introduced and brought to market aqueous kathmandu tm happiness drops temple quantum variety a k a secret fire no need to smoke no carcinogenic factors absolutely legal no prescription required no failed drug tests no cannabis or any tobacco variety quantum ratio core extracted refined organic factors marvelously potent remarkably substantial inspires contemplativeness and creativity attitude and mood enhancement adjustment interrupts anxiety relaxes stress a much superior product better than kava kava st john s wort etc many fine ganja virtues with none of the negatives better sleeping and dreaming non invasive no downside promotes body mind and spirit intimacy contents aqueous kathmandu is a unique botanical substantiality it is offered and marketed as such undisputedly it achieves distinctive accolade of its own merit aqueous kathmandu is absolutely legal and does not contain any controlled or regulated or harmful herbs or cannabis factors however it is our mandatory ethical policy that aqueous kathmandu not be offered to individuals who have not yet attained at least NUMBER years of age all things in their time please note as well that aqueous kathmandu is not intended for usage during work or while driving and as is true of all substance and indulgence this product should not be enjoyed during pregnancy this proprietary formulation does include the following quantum ratio core extracted refined botanicals in an alcohol base as a preservative albizzia flower tops drachsha chavana prash lactuca virosa hybrid flowering turnera diffusa wild dagga capillaris herba angelica root zizyphi spinosae buplerum hybrid valeriana officinalis root albizzia flower tops mature polygonum vine calea zacatechichi crocus sativa flower tops leonorus sibricus buds cinnabaris margarita herba biotae orientalis salviae miltiorrhizae usage instructions shake well mix NUMBER NUMBER drops with juice or water best on empty stomach ambiance lasts about two hours or so not intended for use during pregnancy or while working or driving keep out of reach of children aqueous kathmandu pricing one NUMBER oz bottle NUMBER usages NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping two NUMBER oz bottles NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping see intro offers at bottom of this text for further savings sweet vjestika tm aphrodisia drops erotica intimacy sensitivity enhancement at its finest for men women even we did not imagine the sweet customer appreciation that sweet vjestika has enjoyed now more potent than ever due to higher concentrations of sweet vjestika s botanical factors this is intimacy enhancement at its finest sweet vjestika is an erotic aphrodisia sexual intensifier enhancer liquid amalgamated extract for men women indeed a heavensent treasure of pleasure to entice your passion to intrigue your desire enchantment s rapture sweet vjestika s fire the tantra sacrament of sweet vjestika aphrodisia drops extravagantly inspires and enhances sensitivity to touch desire to touch be touched fantasy lust rapture uninhibitedness erogenous sensitivity sexual courageousness sexual gentleness and ferocity sweet vjestika aphrodisia drops prolongs and intensifies foreplay prolongs and intensifies orgasm climax inspires body mind spirit orgasm climax inspires and enhances body mind spirit communion betwixt lovers inspires and enhances the enchantment glamourie of love contents whole mahuang bee pollen epimedium angelica rehmannia ginger schizandra polygonatum adenophora tremella tang kuei reishi codonopsis eucommium lycii berry ligusticum peony root fo ti atractylodes ophiopogon royal jelly euryales seeds poria licorice mountain peony bark cormi fruit rose hips prince ginseng scrophularia alisma astragalus fennel buplerium cypera aconite polygala red sage root jujube seed lotus seed tien chi ginseng ligus ticum psoralea dodder seed and cisthanches in a solution containing NUMBER pure grain alcohol as a preservative distilled water and lecithen as an emulsifier suggested usage sweet vjestika is extremely potent use NUMBER NUMBER drops sublingually or in juice or tea not to exceed NUMBER drops best when taken upon an empty stomach approx NUMBER minutes before intimacy based upon NUMBER drop increments there are approx NUMBER dosages per NUMBER oz bottle usage should not exceed NUMBER doses per week persons taking any prescription medication or suffering from depression or anxiety should consult with their health care provider before using this product is not intended for usage by persons with abnormal blood pressure or any cardiovascular malady or any thyroid dysfunction nor is it to be used during pregnancy or by any person under NUMBER years of age sweet vjestika pricing one NUMBER oz bottle approx NUMBER dosages NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping two NUMBER oz bottles approx NUMBER dosages NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping see intro offers at bottom of this text for further savings gentle ferocity tm heaven sent viripotent energization appetite suppression tablets without the inclusion of caffeine or mahaung herb or ephedrine no jitters no inability to sleep at bedtime no strung out feeling a non caffeine non ephedrine non ephedra non mahuang virpotent herbaceous prescription for the dynamic energization of body mind and spirit this gentle ferocity formulation is amalgamated in accordance with the fundamental taoist herbal principle of botanical interactiveness and precursorship which in essence is a molecular equation of the relevant botanical herbal alkaloids and glycosides interacting with one another to proliferate molecular communion and thereby to achieve demonstrative herbal efficaciousness without negative implication to any aspect of human composition these gentle ferocity cordial tablets are incredulously and thoroughly effective enjoy entirely natural increases energy increases metabolism decreases appetite contents each gentle ferocity tablet contains NUMBER mg of the following proprietary formulated high ratio concentrated botanical factors cortex eucommiae radex polygoni multiflori zizyphus seed fructus schisandrae radix panax ginseng radix astragali atractylode sclerotium porial cocos saussurea tang kuei longan radix paeoniae biota seeds glehnia radix salviae ligusticum lycu berry radix dioscoreae cortex mouton frutcus corni radix polygalae cistanches radix pseudoslellariae and cortex aranthopanacis suggested usage NUMBER NUMBER tablets as needed best taken on an empty stomach not to exceed NUMBER tablets per day please note persons with high blood pressure or any cardio vascular malady should consult with their health care provider before engaging gentle ferocity also gentle ferocity is not intended for use during pregnancy nor is it intended for acquisition by any person who has not attained at least NUMBER years of age gentle ferocity tablets pricing one NUMBER count jar NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping two NUMBER count jars for NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping reg NUMBER save NUMBER three NUMBER count jars for NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping reg NUMBER save NUMBER see intro offers at bottom of this text for further savings capillaris herba tm a sedate smoking or brewing happiness botanical capillaris loose leaf herba is a very calming happy sort of smoking brewing herba capillaris herba is a singular botanical and is best utilized close to bedtime as it is a very sedate herba not as potent as shangrila zowie wowie from a smoking perspective no legal product is but well worth your attention many folks find that if they partake of both smoke and brew that not only do they go to sleep very happily but that their dreaming life is often nicely enhanced capillaris herba botanical is best rolled or bowled when engaged as a smoka as is an herbalist s way four or five draws of smoka should be inhaled and retained for the non smoker it is most appropriate to engage capillaris herba as a most peaceful brew tea steep approximately one teaspoon of capillaris herba per one cup of water for ten minutes or so strain capillaris herba is not intended for use during work or while driving nor should it be enjoyed during pregnancy in addition although no factor in capillaris herba is illegal or regulated it is the ethical policy of exotic botanical resources that capillaris herba not be sold or offered to any person that has not attained at least NUMBER years of age all things in their time capillaris herba pricing one NUMBER oz bag NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping two NUMBER oz bags NUMBER NUMBER plus shipping see intro offers at bottom of this text for further savings customer appreciation introductory offers all intro offers include a free NUMBER oz package of our capillaris herba regularly NUMBER NUMBER please note all exotic botanical resource product are intended for sophisticated adult usage no exotic botanical resource product is intended for use during pregnancy and although no factor or product is regulated or illegal it is the mandatory ethical policy of exotic botanical resources that no xbr product be sold or offered to any person that has not attained at least NUMBER years of age all things in their time a north intro offer includes the following one NUMBER NUMBER lb can of shangrila zowie wowie incl hookah herb pipe one NUMBER count container of prozaka tablets price NUMBER NUMBER reg price NUMBER you save NUMBER b south intro offer includes the following one NUMBER NUMBER lb can of shangrila zowie wowie incl hookah herb pipe one NUMBER count jar gentle ferocity tablets price NUMBER NUMBER reg price NUMBER you save NUMBER c east intro offer includes the following one NUMBER NUMBER lb can of shangrila zowie wowie incl hookah herb pipe one NUMBER oz bottle of sweet vjestika aphrodisia drops price NUMBER NUMBER reg price NUMBER you save NUMBER d west intro offer includes the following one NUMBER NUMBER lb can of shangrila zowie wowie incl hookah herb pipe one NUMBER oz bottle of aqueous kathmandu price NUMBER NUMBER reg price NUMBER you save NUMBER e wet intro offer includes the following one NUMBER oz bottle of aqueous kathmandu one NUMBER oz bottle of sweet vjestika aphrodisia drops price NUMBER NUMBER reg price NUMBER you save NUMBER f aphrodisia intro offer includes the following one NUMBER NUMBER lb can of shangrila zowie wowie incl hookah herb pipe one NUMBER oz bottle of sweet vjestika aphrodisia drops price NUMBER NUMBER reg price NUMBER you save NUMBER g mini intro offer includes the following one NUMBER oz bag of shangrila zowie wowie incl herb pipe only one NUMBER count container of prozaka tablets price NUMBER NUMBER reg price NUMBER you save NUMBER h visionary intro offer includes the following one NUMBER NUMBER lb can of shangrila zowie wowie incl hookah herb pipe one NUMBER count container of prozaka tablets one NUMBER count gentle ferocity tablets one NUMBER oz bottle of sweet vjestika aphrodisia drops one NUMBER oz bottle of aqueous kathmandu price NUMBER NUMBER reg price NUMBER you save NUMBER to order via credit card or for customer assistance product information please call NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER hours mon sat NUMBER a m to NUMBER p m central time all orders are shipped next day via us postal domestic and international priority mail beyond business hours please enjoy automated convenience leave your name and phone number and a convenient time to return your call certainly we will be happy to do 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 social on january NUMBERst NUMBER the european countries began using the new euro never before have so many countries with such powerful economies united to use a single currency get your piece of history now we would like to send you a free euro and a free report on world currency just visit our site to request your euro and euro report URL in addition to our currency report you can receive our free investment package learn how NUMBER NUMBER in options will leverage NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in euro currency this means even a small movement in the market has huge profit potential csice if you are over age NUMBER and have some risk capital it s important that you find out how the euro will change the economic world and how you can profit URL please carefully evaluate your financial position before trading only risk capital should be used NUMBERcNUMBERfdNUMBERcbNUMBERfNUMBEReeNUMBERcNUMBEReNUMBER utbxcuhepuffbnkwq full opt out instructions on the bottom of the site irish linux users group social events social URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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attn sir madan strictly confidential i am pleased to introduce myself to URL name is mr manuel oko a native of south africa and a senior employee of mines and natural resources department currently on a trainning course in holland for few months i am writing this letter to request your assistance in order to redeem an investment with the south african mining corporation the said investment now valued at NUMBER NUMBER million dollars fifteen million five hundred thousand dollars only was purchased by lucio harper and contracted out to the south african mining corporation in NUMBER now recognised as mines and natural resources department this redeemable investment interest has now matured since march last year since march last year several attempts have been made to contact lucio harper without success and there is no way to contact any of his close relatives in whose favour the investment cash value can be paid since we have access to all lucio harper s information we can claim this money with the help of my partners with the south african mines and natural resources department all we have to do is to file claim using you as lucio harper s relative i will like to assure you that there is absolutely nothing to worry about because it is perfectly safe with no risk involved please ensure to keep this matter strictly URL partner will file a claim for this money on your behalf from the southafrican mining corporation when the claim is approved you as the beneficiary will be paid NUMBER of the total amouth since this money can be paid directly into any bank account of your choice you have responsibility to ensure that my partner and ireceive NUMBER of the total amouth while the balance NUMBER will be set aside for any unforseen expenses in the cause of transfering this money i will appreciate if you can give your assurance and guarantee that our share will be well secured please for the sake of confidentiality reach me on my e mail address manuelokoNUMBER URL please let me know if this proposal is acceptable to you kindly reach me immediately with any of the stated contact addresses so that better clearifications relating to the transaction will be explained to you truly yours manuel oko irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
 from mr desmond stevens urgent assistance you may be surprised to receive this letter from me since you do not know me personally i am mr desmond stevens the first son of dr dennis stevens who was recently murdered in the land dispute in zimbabwe i was furnished with viable information from the world trade centre here in amsterdam the netherlands and decided to write you before the death of my father he had taken me to amsterdam to deposit the sum of ten million five hundred thousand united states dollars us NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER in a security company as if he foresaw the looming danger in zimbabwe this money was deposited in a box as gemstones to avoid much demurrage from the security company this amount was meant for the purchase of new machines and chemicals for the farms and establishment of new farm in swaziland this land problem came when zimbabwe president mr robert mugabe introduced a new land act that wholly affected rich white farmers and some few black farmers this resulted to the killing and mob action by zimbabwe war veterans and some lunatics in the society infact a lot of people were killed because of this land reform act of which my father was one of the victims it is against this background that my family and i who are currently staying in amsterdam decided to transfer my father s money to a foreign account since the law of the netherlands prohibit a refugee asylum seeker to open any account or to be involved in any financial transaction as the eldest son of my father i am saddled with the responsibility of seeking a genuine foreign account where this money could be transferred without the knowledge of my government who are bent on taking everything we have got i am faced with the dilemma of investing this amount of money in the netherlands for the fear of going through the same experience in future since both countries have similar history moreover the netherlands foreign exchange policy does not allow such investment from asylum seekers as a businessman whom i have entrusted my future and my family in his hands i must let you know that this transaction is risk free if you accept to assist me and my family all i need you to do for me is to make arrangement and come to amsterdam the netherlands so that you can open the non resident account which will aid us in transferring the money into any account you will nominate overseas this money i intend to use for investment i have options to offer you first you can choose to have certain percentage of the money for nominating your account for the transaction or you can go into partnership with me for a proper profitable investment of the money in your country whichever option you choose feel free to notify me i have mapped out NUMBER of this money for all expenses incurred in processing this transaction if you do not prefer a partnership i am willing to give you NUMBER of the money while the remaining NUMBER that is meant for me will be for the investment in your country please contact me with the above telephone and e mail address while i implore you to maintain the absolute secrecy required in the transaction yours faithfully desmond stevens irish linux users group ilug URL URL for un subscription information list maintainer listmaster URL ,1
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 the famous ebay marketing e course learn to sell with the complete ebay auction marketing e course here s your chance to join the online selling revolution and earn a full time income our ebay marketing e course will show you how to create huge profits selling on ebay do you sell on ebay if so you could be making up to NUMBER NUMBER per month this is no hype and no scam receiving over NUMBER NUMBER billion page views per month ebay is the ultimate venue for selling virtually anything and making huge profits with almost no effort but you have to know what to sell and how to sell that s where i come in as a leading expert in internet marketing and the owner of several profitable auction based businesses the manual that i have written provides easy to understand and detailed instructions for maximizing your profits with selling strategies that are proven winners if you ve read any other books on ebay you know that all of them are designed for the computer idiot and the auction novice they tell you how to register how to list an item how to avoid fraud etc this is not the information you need to make millions on ebay you need to learn effective selling strategies not read a photocopy of ebay help files my manual assumes that you already know your way around ebay you don t need any specialized computer knowledge but you should be familiar with buying and selling on ebay auctions i m not going to waste your time teaching you how to register i m going to pass on the secret selling techniques that i use each and every day to bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars selling my products on internet auctions the manual comes as a complete course with the following lessons make a fortune on ebay make a fortune on ebay is filled with page after page of vital ebay marketing information this valuable e book is terrific for the ebay user to get the right ebay information and have an instant edge over other more experienced ebay sellers advanced selling on ebay advanced selling on ebay has more vital information to make their auction a success this e book has many topics to ensure that they get the maximum potential from their auctions advanced selling on ebay goes into more detailed information than it s sister e book make a fortune on ebay NUMBER ebay forms NUMBER ebay forms is a must these forms will help them track analyze and record their auctions it contains NUMBER forms with full instructions this e book also contains the forms in printer friendly version so they can print them for immediate use wholesale sources wholesale sources is the final e book in the ebay marketing e course it contains wholesale distributors from the united states mexico hong kong taiwan asia and the philippines armed with this e book your customers will have over NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER wholesale products at their finger tips this manual is designed for individuals looking to form an online business for extra income or as a full time job making hundreds of thousands of dollars on ebay contained in the manual are winning strategies for selling on ebay auctions the manual is not designed for ebay novices and does not teach the basics such as registering putting an item online buying an item etc this manual is designed to make ebay users into successful and wealthy entrepreneurs not only will you be able to make thousands with the information in these e books you will also receive full resellers rights this is not an affiliate program where you get NUMBER or NUMBER you keep all the money generated from your e course sales you can sell this e course as many times as you want for whatever price you choose there is no limit on how much you can make from this incredible product sell these e books individually or as a complete e course give make a fortune on ebay for free and use advanced selling on ebay NUMBER ebay forms and wholesale sources as a sell up all NUMBER e books for only NUMBER NUMBER hyperlink click here to order your e course today please allow up to NUMBER hours to process your order NUMBER NUMBER hours during business hours thank you for your time and i hope to hear from you soon ,1
 hello this is chinese traditional 子 件 NUMBER世 o最有效的宣 鞣绞剑 您想 地NUMBER f人同一 r刻知道您的 v告 幔磕 想方便快捷的宣 髂 的企 i 幔 您想在商 i 中步步 紫 c 幔 您想一次 碛 在商 i客 幔 越 碓蕉嗟恼 查表明 w路直 n 成 未 i n方式的主流 而e mail ⑹蔷w上 i n最常用也是最 用的工具 其特 c v r效高 r格低 emarketer估 美 有NUMBER 的中等 模公司 常 用 子 件 m行 i n活 印 部分 v告媒 w平均回 率比 average response rate ranges NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER 普通横幅广告 banner ads NUMBER NUMBER 普通信件 direct mail NUMBER NUMBER 子 件 email 一 件出售 i全球 件地址 每NUMBER f NUMBERhk i全部NUMBER f NUMBERhk i香港 件地址 每NUMBER f NUMBERhk i香港全部NUMBER f NUMBERhk hyperlink free download i _ 赤 件地址 每NUMBER f NUMBERhk i _ 橙 部NUMBER f NUMBERhk hyperlink free download 件 l送 v告 件代理 l送 每NUMBER f NUMBERhk NUMBER f起 l 蚀_率NUMBER 以上 包周群 l 一周NUMBER f NUMBERhk 一周NUMBER f NUMBERhk 保 c w站日 l 量提升NUMBER以上 包月群 l 一月NUMBER f NUMBERhk 保 c w站日 l 量提升NUMBER以上 件 w NUMBER n套群 l 搜索 w路 l 衍 w NUMBERhk 你自己 碛幸惶淄晟频碾 子 件群 l 搜索 w路 l 严到y 有意者请来信联系 hyperlink yhzxNUMBER URL 二 搜索引擎 缘顷 超值服 眨 特惠 rNUMBER hk y河之星 湍 登 全球NUMBER 英文搜索引擎 mNUMBER 中文搜索引擎 你的 w站享 u全球 e mail地址在各地 的分 盗 香港 NUMBER hyperlink free download the sample _ 场 NUMBER hyperlink free download the sample 全球 NUMBER f y河之星 碛 韧馍 有效的email位址 y料 欤 可以根 客 舻男枰 在指定的地方 域 行 i e等 傩酝斗烹 子 件 v告 如 你想 某地NUMBER f人一天之 都知道你的 a品 y 那麽 v告 件投放就是你最好的解 q方案 它的 r格是所有 髅 r格中最低 但又是最有效的 c遇每 r每刻都等待著你 也 s你正是用了 拥 髅菏侄危 而打垮了所有的 κ帧ｚs快行 影桑 你的企 i 公司立即掌握商 i 髅降拿 v告e mail 是普通 麂n i所不能比 m的 m及付款方式 本公司 氖戮w路 v告多年 宣 髁χ任痪又 第四大 w路 v告商之一 我 有 ｉt的技 g人 t和高速 i的服 障到y 氖麓隧 工作 必 您的企 i提供最迅捷 最有效 最 m意的服 铡 需求客 粽 c 暨 y m 箱 hyperlink yhzxNUMBER URL 硇耪 注明您需要的服 张c m方式 我 快回 湍 港 澳 _地 付款方式 任何 家均可到 地 y行 r NUMBER NUMBER天到 ぃ 需到 地 y行 k理 r english benificiary customer wangjingjing a c bank bank of china mianyang branch a c no NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER benificiary s tel no NUMBER NUMBER 中文 φ眨 收 款 人 王晶晶 收款 y行 中 y行 d 分行 NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER 收款人 NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER天到 ぃ 款到後我 ⒘⒓ 您提供最 m意服 铡 g迎 硇 黼 j m NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER y河之星 w路 y 有限公司 公司地址 中 大 d email hyperlink yhzxNUMBER URL j NUMBER NUMBER NUMBER 公司服 NUMBER福壕w路推 v w站建 o w路 名 w 寄存 功能 得 q空 g w l展等 r x低廉 服 g迎 硇 黼 m ,1