General:Made Up Word Round Up

Made Up Word Round Up was a forum topic made by Michael Kirkbride in 2006, wherein he offered to cover the meaning of the various words created for The Elder Scrolls. This was developed via an archive preserved on The Imperial Library and the original thread can be viewed here.

Abridged Version
MK'': Hey folks, Feeling much better, thankee thankee. Boy, there sure are a lot of made up words in Tamriel, like "dracochrysalis" and "impossipoint" and "mananaut"..! and and and Tell you what: you guys round 'em up and I'll do my best to explain what they are. In-character. Or you guys can try and figure them out yourself. In any case, it should be fun. Phrases count, too, so "Empire Actual" can be listed, for example. Let's go. Gimme your favorites. Everybody play. 
Allerleirauh: Um... some of my favorites aren't coined words, but words that are used in a special context.
:Mythopoeic, enantiomorph, dreamsleeve.
MK: Ahem. Here we go. Okay, maybe this will only sorta-kinda be in-character. Or not in-character at all. I make the rules here, because I am filthy with power.
:Mythopoeic: Could you show me where this was used?
:Enantiomorph: I found this in a really, really weird dictionary, which chose to explain it as "a merged dichotomy". In TES, the Enantiomorph is most commonly used to refer to the really, really weird mythic figure of Arctus-who-is-Septim. I'll allow others to play with this until I get back to it, as there's some good takes that certain loremasters have on the Enantiomorph.
:Dreamsleeve: Stolen from a neat word Ken made up for Battlespire. The dreamsleeve is a conduit for sending special transmissions. Used by weirdo magicians and Imperial clerks, mainly. Kinda like myspace...only to reach it one must have at least part of their brain constantly meditating, because one aspect of the conduit is that it is able to carry images of concepts not yet "real". 
Nalion: If might throw in another word...
:I'd love to see this word explained in ES context:
:Arenotelicon
MK: Okay, another filthy with power rule: cite where the word came from in the lore if it's really, really obscure.
:Thanks! 
rakushun_kun: Really? I thought enantiomorph was mirror-image, and it's synonymous to the word "enantiomer?" Usually, mirror images are described as "chiral," or handedness where the left hand is the mirror image of the right, yet are identical in structure? Eh, maybe it's just the organic chemistry.
MK: FIGHT!
Allerleirauh: As in "mythopoeic enchantments" which is what Kagrenac was supposedly doing with the tools. Would appear to mean, "shaping reality by means of altering archetypes and myth."
MK: Winner! Now: FwP assignment - give me a little example of how a mythopoeic enchanment might work on, say, "Chorus-based Changes to The Hanged Man, by Kagrenac, age 8".
Nalion: Vivec: "Arenotelicon."
MK: Pretty easy: "a creature that alternates between male and female." Why not just "phase-shifting tranny"? Well, because sometimes the old words are best, as they ring with implied importance and are all long and spooky-looking. In a more ES-Nu-Hatta sense (meaning Tamrielic theosophy): "The ultimate in all the marriages between." 
Sheogorath: No big words in this one. This is just MK saying that the lore from the previous game was being ejected.
MK: WHINY BABY!
:Who would like to ret-con this for me? Remember, I graciously ret-conned myself with "Witness the Red King Once Jungled." Instead of being a Whiny Baby. FwP assignment for 8,000 points: Ret-conning the lies of a previous age with a true Aedric Arkay that will be both "alluring" and "pertinent to our current age". 
Allerleirauh: Heh, this led to a discussion of the Crux of Transcendence in the chatroom... Let's see... it might be neat if instead of having to suffer yourself to become a god, you could borrow some other god's suffering... by, say, putting on their skin... or ringing the past event like a bell and channeling the power with a big old TUNING FORK! If you made the tuning fork into a nifty short-blade, it would be even keener. But you would probably need to wear something to protect yourself. At least a glove.
MK: Hmmm. So you're saying that by ringing the bell of an established archetype, and changing its tune, that you could either A) use that power and maybe B ) transform that power. In the case of The Hanged Man, what would you gain in A? What motivation for B? Or just continue. Somehow I feel like this will spiral into a True History of the Disappearance, or The Numidium Was Really a Walking Wind-Chime. Which would rule.
Sheogorath: Actually, "Arkay The Enemy" did that.
MK: Except for the being alluring part. Nyuk nyuk nyuk. Okay, snark-hat off: "Arkay the Enemy" doesn't really posit an a priori Divine Arkay, who would've contributed to the world's creation at the Convention, alongside a johnny-come-later mortal Arkay, who seems to experience a Tiber-like apotheosis during his lifetime. Meaning it doesn't really address the paradox. Which is why the assignment is worth 8,000 freakin points. 
Allerleirauh: I was mixing my metaphors, which is a dangerous thing to do in mythopoeic enchanting.
:The second bit refers to what Vivec and the Trib. did with the tools. They walloped the heart with it, creating a repeat of the mythic event of Lorkhan's heart being ripped out. Then they used Keening to turn the agony into a tone they could bathe in. Thus, Keening, wailing or suffering. The wraithguard was used to shield the user from the untransmuted... whateveryoucall raw mythic energy. You're the word dude, make something up.
:First bit refers to the Numidium, which is what Kagrenac was trying to do before the Tribunal interrupted him. We know Kagrenac made the tools to create a mantella, a Crux of Transcendence. (For those who don't read the Tarot, the Hanged Man in Tarot symbolizes the Crux of Transcendence, suffering to gain transcendence: Jesus on the cross, Odin hanging from the tree to gain wisdom, etc.)
:So, we know what the tools are like, and what the Tribunal did with them, and we know what the mantella is like, and more or less how Tiber Septim made it - he killed his best friend, reenacting the murder of Lorkhan by Akatosh, and shoved his best friend's soul (or his own, or both, since they were tied) into a fancy rock, and then he plugged it into the Numidium, or Divine Skin.
MK: Astounding. How long did this hide in plain sight? Props. As for making up a word for raw mythic energy, didn't I already do that? "Creatia"? 
Solin: Quite awhile. (See Xal)
MK: Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater. Kagrenac had even built the tools needed to construct a Mantella, the Crux of Transcendence." Okay. So now everyone can stop posting about where the Dwarves went. I TOLD YOU EIGHTY YEARS AGO.
:Filthy with it, I am. 
Allerleirauh: Aha, thank you sir. Creatia. Is leaking Creatia what the Daedra use to build their... buildy stuff... in Oblivion? Which is otherwise Void?
MK: Pretty much. Leaky creatia, otherwise called "kaleidocules". Crap. I'm not supposed to be making up new words. STRIKE THAT!
Flannigus: Here's one you probably won't want to answer: The Digital House and the digitals from the Loveletter from the Fifth Era. Feel free to toss in any tidbits about House Sul Progenitor House and C0DA while you're at it. :)
MK: "Belief-engines, properly called the "Auxiliary Semi-Shockpoint Nilgularity", provide energy for short dream-sleeve jumps in case a Vehkship's main ego is damaged, allowing the C0DA Paravant to potentially get to the safety of a voidyard orbital.
:"By creating the equivalent of an Nu-class Mnemolic, shrinking it instantaneously via a creatia tesseract array, and then projecting the resulting moth-talk well to a nil-point just outside the ego's hull, an ASSN can slingshot the Paravant into era-streams without the needed energies of nearby aetheric bodies or shockpoint application.
:"The ASSN is strictly Last Ditch technology, however. It's often deemed as too dangerous for its own good, because it works on the rarified principles of Phynaster's Inversion, a set of mathematics that doesn't exist in our own dimension. Vehkships have vanished in nil-space trying to make an ASSN jump�indeed, the celestial irregularity known as the M4bV Legerity, in which the C0DA Oblivion Vanquisher appears and implodes in perpetuity, is the belief system's most famous cautionary tale."
:S'all I got. Sorry.
Sheogorath: Doesn't seem like it'd be hard to do. There's a Father and a Son in the Christian mythos, who are separate but one. As an Aedra of the cycle of birth and death, he became mortal, spirit transformed to flesh, to experience it firsthand, and then took his rightful place.
MK: I like it. Here's 4000 more points, because you're really very lovely. 
Sheogorath: Many more points that I ever expect to get in a discussion of metaphysics, which, as you know is not my forte. Can I cash out now?
MK: Add a Fish symbol and the mental agony that is the Holy Ghost, along with an elegant apologia for female principle absenteeism, file off all the Christian serial numbers... ...then you can collect your money.
Sytel: Yay! Thank you thank you thank you MK... Hehehe. I love the mental image of Kagrenac already working on this stuff at age 8, an age when most Dwemer kids are just starting to build animunculi. So more broadly, "mythopoeic" things work by symbolically reenacting certain patterns of myth, thereby (hopefully) obtaining the endpoint of the myth? So what you'd have to do is find a myth about whatever it is you want to have happen, then get some good symbols and play-act the myth... probably tones come into it too, just because.
:And with powerful enough symbols and manipulation, it might even be possible to *change* the patterns of myth, or create a new mythic structure. Which could have various interesting uses... Am I close?
MK: Very. Pretty soon you get your own Stompy Robot. And cause absorbocide to your whole frikkin' race. Way to go, monkey. 
Sytel: Woo! I'm close! What is absorbocide?
MK: Too late. You vanished. For eighty years your disappearance will be discussed in various lore threads because I hid crap in fake interviews in hard-to-find websites. 
Sheogorath: You're getting dangerously close with that feminine mystique thing to "The D'Arkay Code," so I better pass... I'm sure there's a graver insult than comparing MK to Dan Brown, but that's all I dare for now ...
MK: Look as I do not strike back, my friends. Filthy with mercy, too! Here's a word: paleonumerology. Someone take a stab. 
Ananke-Mormo: I don't have a question about a word, persay. I'm just dying to know. I want to know what the Orichalc Tower was. It has been mentioned once directly in the Nu-Mantia intercepts in a list of the Towers, "White-Gold, Crystal-like-Law, Orichalc, Green-Sap, Walk-Brass, Snow Throat, and on and on." I believe it was in Yokuda. I believe it was used to sink the continent (PGE quote about "stone magick") What else can you tell about it? But this is probably the wrong place to ask. I'm very sorry.
MK: Good digging. Orichalc Tower was indeed in Yokuda. Whether or not it contributed to the sinking of the land isn't for me to say, but the Yoku and the Left-Handed Elves certainly did fight a lot, so you can be sure the Tower had a part to play in their wargames. Orichalc the name comes from Plato's description of Atlantis, the Most Famousest of Sinking Continents. It was therefore too fun not to add some orichalc into Yokuda's background.
:Plus it's just a neat-looking, neat-sounding word.
featherbrain: Mnemolic especially I love, such a beautifully rounded word. I notice more recent variants in the communications from Planet MK. What sorcery is associated with the Blue Star? And: will we ever read that anything more about that myth?
MK: Mnemolic is mine mine mine...I will never reveal what it means because I am filthy with-- Fine, I'll answer. (And thanks, I think it's a really pretty word, too.) Mnemolic magic is related to the "Star Orphans", gods and heroes and demons that live between creations, which can include those reality-bending burps known as Dragon Breaks. Think of them as the all-stars between kalpas, if that helps. (That probably doesn't help at all, really.) What's up with the Blue Star itself? That's a good little hidden bit that I don't want to ruin. Someone go find it.
:-Planet MK
Marlo LaCroa: I would like to know about how Dagoth Ur was "pawn of the Aggregate."
MK: Aggregate is, of course, a real word, meaning "sum" or "total." But you knew that already...and it seems "context in which this word is used" is more popular here than "what the **** does this mean at all". So, the Sharmat was a pawn of some as yet undisclosed "total": is Nu-hatta talking about the Tribunal (hmm, maybe, but pawn in far different than Enemy)? the Enantiomorph (naw, it ain't this one)? the Gods? the Lords of Misrule?
:Too bad our moth boy didn't tell us which Aggregate. He was probably sending out a dream-sleeve somnomnibus of abnegaurbic memospheres or some sh*it. 
Ananke-Mormo: The new PGE (by Tedders, no?) has two theories on how it sunk. The first is about natural disasters, which is boring and therefore wrong.
MK: Emphasis mine. This not only made me laugh, but it's pretty much my approach to TES in each of its aspects-- game, lore, and look.
:EDIT: Yep, new PGE was Ted. Except for, like, 18 or so lines by me. Those lines did include the Sun Birds of Alinor and the Imperial Mananauts, though, which allow for space travel, a required component of the TES Moon Colony game that's coming. Oh, wait, no it's not; Kurt and I were banned from mentioning it after our first pitch. Let the letter-writing campaign begin. The colonization of Secunda awaits. 
Ananke-Mormo: I would guess the Tribunate refered to when the Tribunal had complete control of Morrowind.
MK: Yes. 
Tarvok Spellbinder: The Void is Outer-Space, though the fantasy nature of it makes it wierd.
MK: Why? 
syronj: I don't know Latin, but it sounds like it's related to "abnegation" -- "abneg-Aurbic" in this case. Maybe it signifies "the Aldmer creed of rejecting the Aurbis".
MK: More or less (and more *more* than less) correct. To Nalion: yep. "Empire Actual" means the Emperor. 
paw-prints-in-the-mud: Searching for Malbioge yields some interesting results. Some guy with a guest account posted the Mythic Dawn Commentaries on a bible forum. (there were no replies)
MK: Ha. Please please link please. 
946000The Dwemeri children's rhyme is interesting enough to me. I wanted to know what daguerrotype means in the context in that text. Mainly cause I'm too lazy to do it on my own.
MK: No need for laziness. It means what it means. 
946000: Indeed... I know I necromanced the hell outta this thread, but I did that because I'm having a hard time defining some of those words, mainly Malbioge and neonymbiosis (though I'm confident I know neonymbiosis now). I did a good bit of searching and still couldn't find an exact definition.
MK: Neonymbiosis. And it's our fault FOR EATING TOO MUCH TURTLE SOUP.
:If I die due to the immortal jellyfish invasion, one of YOU must bioengineer the return of green sea turtles. But only if they remain eternally young. Young green sea turtles are still omnivores, and would be natural predators for the immortal jellyfish. Adult sea green turtles turn into herbivores. So your new version can't mature. Also, you have to bioengineer them, because they're all gone.
:"I HOPE YOU LIKED YOUR SOUP, [censored]TARTS, NOW FACE THE JESUSFISH."
:It'll be like that totally-[censored] movie, "Underworld", only immortal jellyfish versus eternally-young green sea turtles.
:...and deep underwater.
:...with no hotties.
:...and more convincing delivery. 
MK: Okay, so this, like, totally has me going.
MK: 1) It pisses me off that something else achieved immortality first. [censored] that. And jellyfish of all things. C'mon. The silliness is laughing in our collective human faces.
:2) It has driven me to brilliance: immortal jellyfish gasoline. Imagine. You fill your car, right? And then when the gas runs out? It becomes gasoline again!!11!!!!
:So, between revenge and saving the world, I've hit 5:
:5) We bioengineer the immortal jellyfish to only partly contribute its "magical being" into immortal gas, see. The rest of the immortal jellyfish is, like, tortured for being [censored] immortal! A perpetual motion machine that can tell Saudi Arabia to screw itself while also keeping Nature where it belongs: SUBSERVIENT.
:Screw the eternally-young green sea turtles. NO ONE'S GOING IMMORTAL ON OUR DIME EXCEPT US, OCEAN. 
MK: small colonies stolonal, monosiphonic (simple stem), larger ones erect, irregularly branched and increasing in diameter from base to apex, polysiphonic (compound stem); branches basally adnate to hydrocaulus or other branches, then curving away at an acute angle and becoming free; hydrocaulus and hydrocladia covered by a firm bi-layered perisarc, mostly encrusted with detritus and algae, terminating below hydranth base; hydranths terminal, naked, elongated, fusiform, with 12�38 filiform tentacles scattered over distal three quarters of column, proximal ones shorter than distal; hypostome elongated conical; medusa buds arising mostly one by one from short pedicels below hydranths, pear shaped, enclosed in perisarc."
:YESSSSFACEOFGOD.
:Also, after awhile of torturing the hubris-ridden immortal cephalopods IN OUR CAMAROS we'd offer them a choice for some of them to be free, as long as they tell us their filthy secret.
:"Work for us or work with us," we will say.
:And give them vocoders to answer, but only in English, with the implied understanding that refusing to answer in English is the equivalent of submitting willfully to being subjects of our TORTURE FOREVER-GAS FREE ENERGY INITIATIVE.
:This can happen; we have a black President now. [censored] you, Water Jesuses.

Unabridged Version

MK: Hey folks,

:Feeling much better, thankee thankee. Boy, there sure are a lot of made up words in Tamriel, like "dracochrysalis" and "impossipoint" and "mananaut"..!

:and and and

:Tell you what: you guys round 'em up and I'll do my best to explain what they are. In-character. Or you guys can try and figure them out yourself. In any case, it should be fun.

:Phrases count, too, so "Empire Actual" can be listed, for example.

:Let's go. Gimme your favorites. Everybody play.

:*Guest_Allerleirauh_*
::Um... some of my favorites aren't coined words, but words that are used in a special context.

::Mythopoeic, enantiomorph, dreamsleeve.

:*Nalion
::If might throw in another word...

::I'd love to see this word explained in ES context:

:*Arenotelicon

MK

:Allerleirauh said:
:Um... some of my favorites aren't coined words, but words that are used in a special context.

:Mythopoeic, enantiomorph, dreamsleeve.


:Ahem. Here we go. Okay, maybe this will only sorta-kinda be in-character. Or not in-character at all. I make the rules here, because I am filthy with power.

:Mythopoeic: Could you show me where this was used?

:Enantiomorph: I found this in a really, really weird dictionary, which chose to explain it as "a merged dichotomy". In TES, the Enantiomorph is most commonly used to refer to the really, really weird mythic figure of Arctus-who-is-Septim. I'll allow others to play with this until I get back to it, as there's some good takes that certain loremasters have on the Enantiomorph.

Dreamsleeve: Stolen from a neat word Ken made up for Battlespire. The dreamsleeve is a conduit for sending special transmissions. Used by weirdo magicians and Imperial clerks, mainly. Kinda like myspace...only to reach it one must have at least part of their brain constantly meditating, because one aspect of the conduit is that it is able to carry images of concepts not yet "real".
Argonians rule

Posted 19 June 2006 - 11:59 PM
protonymic

Read it in the Mythic Dawn Commentaries. No clue what it means. But it sounds neat.
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:01 AM

Nalion, on Jun 19 2006, 11:50 PM, said:
If might throw in another word...

I'd love to see this word explained in ES context:

Arenotelicon


Okay, another filthy with power rule: cite where the word came from in the lore if it's really, really obscure.

Thanks!
Attrebus

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:03 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 01:28 PM, said:
Mythopoeic: Could you show me where this was used?

Used by Yagrum Bagarn in Morrowind:


Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:03 AM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 09:58 PM, said:
Ahem. Here we go. Okay, maybe this will only sorta-kinda be in-character. Or not in-character at all. I make the rules here, because I am filthy with power.

Mythopoeic: Could you show me where this was used?

Enantiomorph: I found this in a really, really weird dictionary, which chose to explain it as "a merged dichotomy". In TES, the Enantiomorph is most commonly used to refer to the really, really weird mythic figure of Arctus-who-is-Septim. I'll allow others to play with this until I get back to it, as there's some good takes that certain loremasters have on the Enantiomorph.

Dreamsleeve: Stolen from a neat word Ken made up for Battlespire. The dreamsleeve is a conduit for sending special transmissions. Used by weirdo magicians and Imperial clerks, mainly. Kinda like myspace...only to reach it one must have at least part of their brain constantly meditating, because one aspect of the conduit is that it is able to carry images of concepts not yet "real".

As in "mythopoeic enchantments" which is what Kagrenac was supposedly doing with the tools. Would appear to mean, "shaping reality by means of altering archetypes and myth."
rakushun_kun

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:05 AM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 11:58 PM, said:
Enantiomorph: I found this in a really, really weird dictionary, which chose to explain it as "a merged dichotomy". In TES, the Enantiomorph is most commonly used to refer to the really, really weird mythic figure of Arctus-who-is-Septim. I'll allow others to play with this until I get back to it, as there's some good takes that certain loremasters have on the Enantiomorph.


Really? I thought enantiomorph was mirror-image, and it's synonymous to the word "enantiomer?" Usually, mirror images are described as "chiral," or handedness where the left hand is the mirror image of the right, yet are identical in structure? Eh, maybe it's just the organic chemistry.
Attrebus

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:06 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 01:31 PM, said:
Okay, another filthy with power rule: cite where the word came from in the lore if it's really, really obscure.

Thanks!

Arenotelicon is in "Nu-Hatta of the Sphinxmoth Inquiry Tree and his somewhat edited response":

Nalion

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:07 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 12:01 AM, said:
Okay, another filthy with power rule: cite where the word came from in the lore if it's really, really obscure.

Thanks!

Digging deep into the filthy swamp that is MK-ish lore talk...

"Hnnnh. Critical subplex inquest: divine roster, supermundus physiotype."

Tiber Septim: "The Stormcrown manted by way of the fourth: the steps of the dead. Mantling and incarnation are separate roads; do not mistake this. The latter is built from the cobbles of drawn-bone destiny. The former: walk like them until they must walk like you. This is the death children bring as the Sons of Hora."

Arkay: "Lies from a previous age."

King of Worms: "The Jills of Aka-tosh have mended this numidition. Mannimarco remains as he was: the high priest of maggots."

Almalexia: "Hnnnh. Kyne and Mara and Dibella and sixteen Daedric elements: all contributed to the snake-faced queen when she touched the drum. Their sum? A Beauty Cala as none have seen. Cala! Wetness of Kingdom!"

Sotha Sil: "...incalculable."

Vivec: "Arenotelicon."

Dagoth Ur: "Sharmat. Dream-sleeved inversion, where the Biters live, he brought them here, pawn of the Aggregate."

Nerevarine: "Pantheon by incarnation, as all alive now know."
- Nu-Hatta from the Sphinxmoth Inquiry Tree

Hmm, I see a lot more big MK words in there...
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:14 AM

rakushun_kun, on Jun 20 2006, 12:05 AM, said:
Really? I thought enantiomorph was mirror-image, and it's synonymous to the word "enantiomer?" Usually, mirror images are described as "chiral," or handedness where the left hand is the mirror image of the right, yet are identical in structure? Eh, maybe it's just the organic chemistry.


FIGHT!

Allerleirauh, on Jun 20 2006, 12:03 AM, said:
As in "mythopoeic enchantments" which is what Kagrenac was supposedly doing with the tools. Would appear to mean, "shaping reality by means of altering archetypes and myth."


Winner!

Now: FwP assignment - give me a little example of how a mythopoeic enchanment might work on, say, "Chorus-based Changes to The Hanged Man, by Kagrenac, age 8".



Sheogorath

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:22 AM

Nalion, on Jun 20 2006, 12:07 AM, said:
Arkay: "Lies from a previous age."


No big words in this one. This is just MK saying that the lore from the previous game was being ejected.

:glare:
Nalion

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:26 AM

Sheogorath, on Jun 20 2006, 12:22 AM, said:
No big words in this one. This is just MK saying that the lore from the previous game was being ejected.

:glare:

Actually, that was one that I understood. I was more referring to "supermundus physiotype", "numidition", said "Arenotelicon" and "Pawn of the Aggregate".

MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:26 AM

Nalion, on Jun 20 2006, 12:07 AM, said:
Vivec: "Arenotelicon."


Pretty easy: "a creature that alternates between male and female."

Why not just "phase-shifting tranny"? Well, because sometimes the old words are best, as they ring with implied importance and are all long and spooky-looking.

In a more ES-Nu-Hatta sense (meaning Tamrielic theosophy): "The ultimate in all the marriages between."
Solin

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:28 AM
I've always been fond of cosminach. Nu-Mantia #8

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:29 AM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 10:14 PM, said:
FIGHT!

Winner!

Now: FwP assignment - give me a little example of how a mythopoeic enchanment might work on, say, "Chorus-based Changes to The Hanged Man, by Kagrenac, age 8".



Heh, this led to a discussion of the Crux of Transcendence in the chatroom...

Let's see... it might be neat if instead of having to suffer yourself to become a god, you could borrow some other god's suffering... by, say, putting on their skin... or ringing the past event like a bell and channeling the power with a big old TUNING FORK! If you made the tuning fork into a nifty short-blade, it would be even keener. But you would probably need to wear something to protect yourself. At least a glove.
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:31 AM

Sheogorath, on Jun 20 2006, 12:22 AM, said:
No big words in this one. This is just MK saying that the lore from the previous game was being ejected.

:glare:


WHINY BABY!

Who would like to ret-con this for me? Remember, I graciously ret-conned myself with "Witness the Red King Once Jungled." Instead of being a Whiny Baby.

FwP assignment for 8,000 points: Ret-conning the lies of a previous age with a true Aedric Arkay that will be both "alluring" and "pertinent to our current age".
Sheogorath

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:37 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 12:31 AM, said:

WHINY BABY!

Who would like to ret-con this for me? Remember, I graciously ret-conned myself with "Witness the Red King Once Jungled." Instead of being a Whiny Baby.

FwP assignment for 8,000 points: Ret-conning the lies of a previous age with a true Aedric Arkay that will be both "alluring" and "pertinent to our current age".


Actually, "Arkay The Enemy" did that.
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:39 AM

Allerleirauh, on Jun 20 2006, 12:29 AM, said:
Heh, this led to a discussion of the Crux of Transcendence in the chatroom...

Let's see... it might be neat if instead of having to suffer yourself to become a god, you could borrow some other god's suffering... by, say, putting on their skin... or ringing the past event like a bell and channeling the power with a big old TUNING FORK! If you made the tuning fork into a nifty short-blade, it would be even keener. But you would probably need to wear something to protect yourself. At least a glove.


Hmmm. So you're saying that by ringing the bell of an established archetype, and changing its tune, that you could either A) use that power and maybe B ) transform that power. In the case of The Hanged Man, what would you gain in A? What motivation for B?

Or just continue.

Somehow I feel like this will spiral into a True History of the Disappearance, or The Numidium Was Really a Walking Wind-Chime.


Which would rule.

Sheogorath, on Jun 20 2006, 12:37 AM, said:
Actually, "Arkay The Enemy" did that.


Except for the being alluring part.

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

Okay, snark-hat off: "Arkay the Enemy" doesn't really posit an a priori Divine Arkay, who would've contributed to the world's creation at the Convention, alongside a johnny-come-later mortal Arkay, who seems to experience a Tiber-like apotheosis during his lifetime.

Meaning it doesn't really address the paradox. Which is why the assignment is worth 8,000 freakin points.

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:44 AM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 10:37 PM, said:
Hmmm. So you're saying that by ringing the bell of an established archetype, and changing its tune, that you could either A) use that power and maybe B ) transform that power. In the case of The Hanged Man, what would you gain in A? What motivation for B?

Or just continue.

Somehow I feel like this will spiral into a True History of the Disappearance, or The Numidium Was Really a Walking Wind-Chime.


Which would rule.

I was mixing my metaphors, which is a dangerous thing to do in mythopoeic enchanting.

The second bit refers to what Vivec and the Trib. did with the tools. They walloped the heart with it, creating a repeat of the mythic event of Lorkhan's heart being ripped out. Then they used Keening to turn the agony into a tone they could bathe in. Thus, Keening, wailing or suffering. The wraithguard was used to shield the user from the untransmuted... whateveryoucall raw mythic energy. You're the word dude, make something up.

First bit refers to the Numidium, which is what Kagrenac was trying to do before the Tribunal interrupted him. We know Kagrenac made the tools to create a mantella, a Crux of Transcendence. (For those who don't read the Tarot, the Hanged Man in Tarot symbolizes the Crux of Transcendence, suffering to gain transcendence: Jesus on the cross, Odin hanging from the tree to gain wisdom, etc.)

So, we know what the tools are like, and what the Tribunal did with them, and we know what the mantella is like, and more or less how Tiber Septim made it - he killed his best friend, reenacting the murder of Lorkhan by Akatosh, and shoved his best friend's soul (or his own, or both, since they were tied) into a fancy rock, and then he plugged it into the Numidium, or Divine Skin.

Where the Divine Skin itself came from, the wise can find in other places.
Nalion

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:47 AM

Allerleirauh, on Jun 20 2006, 12:29 AM, said:
Heh, this led to a discussion of the Crux of Transcendence in the chatroom...

Let's see... it might be neat if instead of having to suffer yourself to become a god, you could borrow some other god's suffering... by, say, putting on their skin... or ringing the past event like a bell and channeling the power with a big old TUNING FORK! If you made the tuning fork into a nifty short-blade, it would be even keener. But you would probably need to wear something to protect yourself. At least a glove.

Read the warning on both the tuning fork and the glove though.

"May result in repeated heart-ripping events. Heart-ripping events are copyrighted © Enantiomorph from the beginning of the second creation. Contains nuts."


I might have read wrong though. Lack of sleep does that to your reading comprehension skills.
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:48 AM

Allerleirauh, on Jun 20 2006, 12:44 AM, said:
I was mixing my metaphors, which is a dangerous thing to do in mythopoeic enchanting.

The second bit refers to what Vivec and the Trib. did with the tools. They walloped the heart with it, creating a repeat of the mythic event of Lorkhan's heart being ripped out. Then they used Keening to turn the agony into a tone they could bathe in. Thus, Keening, wailing or suffering. The wraithguard was used to shield the user from the untransmuted... whateveryoucall raw mythic energy. You're the word dude, make something up.

First bit refers to the Numidium, which is what Kagrenac was trying to do before the Tribunal interrupted him. We know Kagrenac made the tools to create a mantella, a Crux of Transcendence. (For those who don't read the Tarot, the Hanged Man in Tarot symbolizes the Crux of Transcendence, suffering to gain transcendence: Jesus on the cross, Odin hanging from the tree to gain wisdom, etc.)

So, we know what the tools are like, and what the Tribunal did with them, and we know what the mantella is like, and more or less how Tiber Septim made it - he killed his best friend, reenacting the murder of Lorkhan by Akatosh, and shoved his best friend's soul (or his own, or both, since they were tied) into a fancy rock, and then he plugged it into the Numidium, or Divine Skin.


Astounding. How long did this hide in plain sight?

Props.

As for making up a word for raw mythic energy, didn't I already do that? "Creatia"?
Solin

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:51 AM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 11:48 PM, said:
Astounding. How long did this hide in plain sight?

Props.

Quite awhile. (See Xal)

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:52 AM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 10:48 PM, said:
Astounding. How long did this hide in plain sight?

Props.

As for making up a word for raw mythic energy, didn't I already do that? "Creatia"?

Aha, thank you sir. Creatia.

Is leaking Creatia what the Daedra use to build their... buildy stuff... in Oblivion? Which is otherwise Void?
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:54 AM

Solin, on Jun 20 2006, 12:51 AM, said:
Quite awhile. (See Xal)


"Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater. Kagrenac had even built the tools needed to construct a Mantella, the Crux of Transcendence."

Okay. So now everyone can stop posting about where the Dwarves went. I TOLD YOU EIGHTY YEARS AGO.

Filthy with it, I am.
Attrebus

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:54 AM
So Kagrenac was trying to do what the Tribunal did, just on a much larger scale?

The Warp of the West was fractured time on a fairly large scale. And that was only with the Mantellian Crux as it's source of power. What would have happened if either Kagrenac or Dagoth Ur finished their constructions based on the Heart of Lorkhan?

Why the hell am I asking questions?
Flannigus

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:56 AM
Here's one you probably won't want to answer: The Digital House and the digitals from the Loveletter from the Fifth Era.

Feel free to toss in any tidbits about House Sul Progenitor House and C0DA while you're at it.
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:59 AM

Allerleirauh, on Jun 20 2006, 12:52 AM, said:
Aha, thank you sir. Creatia.

Is leaking Creatia what the Daedra use to build their... buildy stuff... in Oblivion? Which is otherwise Void?


Pretty much. Leaky creatia, otherwise called "kaleidocules".

Crap. I'm not supposed to be making up new words.

STRIKE THAT!
Nalion

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:02 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 12:59 AM, said:
Pretty much. Leaky creatia, otherwise called "kaleidocules".

Crap. I'm not supposed to be making up new words.

STRIKE THAT!

Wasn't there the term "Foyson" floating around?
I remember that this term came up in Loranna's RP, in conjunction with a device called "Eidolon", which served as a means to channel "creatia"/"mythopoeic energy" into the Void, thus destroying Creation.
Yep, I know, Loranna's RP is not canon, but I happen to like the word Foyson.


Sheogorath

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:02 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 12:39 AM, said:
Except for the being alluring part.

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

Okay, snark-hat off: "Arkay the Enemy" doesn't really posit an a priori Divine Arkay, who would've contributed to the world's creation at the Convention, alongside a johnny-come-later mortal Arkay, who seems to experience a Tiber-like apotheosis during his lifetime.

Meaning it doesn't really address the paradox. Which is why the assignment is worth 8,000 freakin points.


Doesn't seem like it'd be hard to do. There's a Father and a Son in the Christian mythos, who are separate but one. As an Aedra of the cycle of birth and death, he became mortal, spirit transformed to flesh, to experience it firsthand, and then took his rightful place.
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:15 AM

Flannigus, on Jun 20 2006, 12:56 AM, said:
Here's one you probably won't want to answer: The Digital House and the digitals from the Loveletter from the Fifth Era.

Feel free to toss in any tidbits about House Sul Progenitor House and C0DA while you're at it.


"Belief-engines, properly called the "Auxiliary Semi-Shockpoint Nilgularity", provide energy for short dream-sleeve jumps in case a Vehkship's main ego is damaged, allowing the C0DA Paravant to potentially get to the safety of a voidyard orbital.

"By creating the equivalent of an Nu-class Mnemolic, shrinking it instantaneously via a creatia tesseract array, and then projecting the resulting moth-talk well to a nil-point just outside the ego's hull, an ASSN can slingshot the Paravant into era-streams without the needed energies of nearby aetheric bodies or shockpoint application.

"The ASSN is strictly Last Ditch technology, however. It's often deemed as too dangerous for its own good, because it works on the rarified principles of Phynaster's Inversion, a set of mathematics that doesn't exist in our own dimension. Vehkships have vanished in nil-space trying to make an ASSN jump—indeed, the celestial irregularity known as the M4bV Legerity, in which the C0DA Oblivion Vanquisher appears and implodes in perpetuity, is the belief system's most famous cautionary tale."

S'all I got. Sorry.


Sheogorath, on Jun 20 2006, 01:02 AM, said:
Doesn't seem like it'd be hard to do. There's a Father and a Son in the Christian mythos, who are separate but one. As an Aedra of the cycle of birth and death, he became mortal, spirit transformed to flesh, to experience it firsthand, and then took his rightful place.


I like it. Here's 4000 more points, because you're really very lovely.
Sheogorath

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:20 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 01:15 AM, said:
I like it. Here's 4000 more points, because you're really very lovely.


Many more points that I ever expect to get in a discussion of metaphysics, which, as you know is not my forte. Can I cash out now?

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:23 AM

Nalion, on Jun 19 2006, 11:02 PM, said:
Wasn't there the term "Foyson" floating around?
I remember that this term came up in Loranna's RP, in conjunction with a device called "Eidolon", which served as a means to channel "creatia"/"mythopoeic energy" into the Void, thus destroying Creation.
Yep, I know, Loranna's RP is not canon, but I happen to like the word Foyson.


"Foyson" is a Gaelic word for the essence of something. Fairies steal the foyson out of food, and then you die of malnutrition despite eating plenty, for example.

Somewhere I remember seeing 'chronocules,' which would be leaking time, then.

Oooh, 'Paravant.'

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:25 AM
Yay! Thank you thank you thank you MK...

Quote
Now: FwP assignment - give me a little example of how a mythopoeic enchanment might work on, say, "Chorus-based Changes to The Hanged Man, by Kagrenac, age 8".

Hehehe. I love the mental image of Kagrenac already working on this stuff at age 8, an age when most Dwemer kids are just starting to build animunculi.
So more broadly, "mythopoeic" things work by symbolically reenacting certain patterns of myth, thereby (hopefully) obtaining the endpoint of the myth? So what you'd have to do is find a myth about whatever it is you want to have happen, then get some good symbols and play-act the myth... probably tones come into it too, just because.
And with powerful enough symbols and manipulation, it might even be possible to *change* the patterns of myth, or create a new mythic structure. Which could have various interesting uses...

Am I close?
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:28 AM

Sheogorath, on Jun 20 2006, 01:20 AM, said:
Many more points that I ever expect to get in a discussion of metaphysics, which, as you know is not my forte. Can I cash out now?


Add a Fish symbol and the mental agony that is the Holy Ghost, along with an elegant apologia for female principle absenteeism, file off all the Christian serial numbers...

...then you can collect your money.




Sytel, on Jun 20 2006, 01:25 AM, said:
Yay! Thank you thank you thank you MK...

Hehehe. I love the mental image of Kagrenac already working on this stuff at age 8, an age when most Dwemer kids are just starting to build animunculi.
So more broadly, "mythopoeic" things work by symbolically reenacting certain patterns of myth, thereby (hopefully) obtaining the endpoint of the myth? So what you'd have to do is find a myth about whatever it is you want to have happen, then get some good symbols and play-act the myth... probably tones come into it too, just because.
And with powerful enough symbols and manipulation, it might even be possible to *change* the patterns of myth, or create a new mythic structure. Which could have various interesting uses...

Am I close?


Very. Pretty soon you get your own Stompy Robot. And cause absorbocide to your whole frikkin' race. Way to go, monkey.

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:31 AM
Woo! I'm close!

What is absorbocide?
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:34 AM

Sytel, on Jun 20 2006, 01:31 AM, said:
Woo! I'm close!

What is absorbocide?


Too late. You vanished. For eighty years your disappearance will be discussed in various lore threads because I hid crap in fake interviews in hard-to-find websites.
Sheogorath

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:39 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 01:28 AM, said:
Add a Fish symbol and the mental agony that is the Holy Ghost, along with an elegant apologia for female principle absenteeism, file off all the Christian serial numbers...

...then you can collect your money.


You're getting dangerously close with that feminine mystique thing to "The D'Arkay Code," so I better pass.

... I'm sure there's a graver insult than comparing MK to Dan Brown, but that's all I dare for now ...
MK

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:44 AM

Sheogorath, on Jun 20 2006, 01:39 AM, said:
You're getting dangerously close with that feminine mystique thing to "The D'Arkay Code," so I better pass.

... I'm sure there's a graver insult than comparing MK to Dan Brown, but that's all I dare for now ...


Look as I do not strike back, my friends. Filthy with mercy, too!

Here's a word: paleonumerology.

Someone take a stab.

Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:56 AM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 11:44 PM, said:
Look as I do not strike back, my friends. Filthy with mercy, too!

Here's a word: paleonumerology.

Someone take a stab.

The study of old numbers... but I'm not sure of the context. Numerology of ancient civilizations? Numbers that no longer exist?
Breon

Posted 20 June 2006 - 02:47 AM
My first post in the Lore forums is the etymology of an MK word? Sheo must be acting as my muse... but hey, I'll take a crack at it anyway.

Paleonumerology would be the study of the historical relationship between numbers esoteric and the physical world.

Consider the following:
2 primal (original) powers. Each begat a soul (2*2=4). Of the et'Ada who worked on the formation of Mundus, 8 Aedra remained viable powers in the world (4*2=8). Of those who stood apart from creation, 16 remained to take a hand in its history (8*2=16). So where in the past did the number 2 become significant enough to have such a strong influence on the current panthenon, and why? Obviously, 2 is reflected in many aspects of our physical and mental nature - left/right, male/female, child/adult, restraint/gratification, pain/pleasure, attraction/repulsion, etc. So, as beings with strong ties to this number, it would be natural for us to use dichotomy in our attempts at understanding our world.

However, all this would just be setting the stage for the paleonumerologist. This individual would ask:
- When was dichotomy first used to explain the primal powers?
- How did the original dichotomy evolve into the pantheon we know today?
- In what way did each addition/change to the pantheon reflect the cultures of that time?
... and so on.

Another interesting study for this person may be the relation of Daedra to specific summoning dates.
Mehrunes Dagon

Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:50 AM
AH! My head hurts. So many topics, so many abstract ideas. AHH!

My word for you, because I doubt you will explain CHIM, is actually the naming convention of all the Daedric shrines. Or you can at least explain what my favorite one is, Assurnabitashpi. I like yelling that at people when I'm feeling threatened.

And in reference to the above poster: what about the Gray-Maybe? You know, there is left and right, but there is also the middle, the androgyne, the teen, loose avoidance, pleasurable pain (as well as painful pleasure), undeath, and... crap, I can't justify repulsive attraction.
Gez

Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:56 AM

Mehrunes Dagon, on Jun 20 2006, 08:50 AM, said:
I can't justify repulsive attraction.


Morbid fascination. You can't stand the sight of something, yet you can't turn your eyes away from it. Maybe not the repulsion and attraction you were talking about, though.

Posted 20 June 2006 - 05:10 AM

Mehrunes Dagon, on Jun 20 2006, 01:50 AM, said:
AH! My head hurts. So many topics, so many abstract ideas. AHH!

My word for you, because I doubt you will explain CHIM, is actually the naming convention of all the Daedric shrines. Or you can at least explain what my favorite one is, Assurnabitashpi. I like yelling that at people when I'm feeling threatened.

And in reference to the above poster: what about the Gray-Maybe? You know, there is left and right, but there is also the middle, the androgyne, the teen, loose avoidance, pleasurable pain (as well as painful pleasure), undeath, and... crap, I can't justify repulsive attraction.

The French have a word for repulsive attraction: jolie-laide, ugly-beautiful.
Joe4730

Posted 20 June 2006 - 05:23 AM
-delete-
Gez

Posted 20 June 2006 - 06:44 AM

Allerleirauh, on Jun 20 2006, 10:10 AM, said:
The French have a word for repulsive attraction: jolie-laide, ugly-beautiful.


We have?
Vivos Dalen

Posted 20 June 2006 - 09:00 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 05:44 AM, said:
Look as I do not strike back, my friends. Filthy with mercy, too!

Here's a word: paleonumerology.

Someone take a stab.


While techinically the study of old numbers is it refering to the study of old mathematic priniciples.


Imagine an earlier universe where pi =1.2 for example ,and somebody effed with the axis mundi using a big stompy robot to make it approx 3.14.
Paelonumerology would be the study of the old numbers and rules before the change...

As opposed to somninumerology which would be the study of mathematical systems of other possible but not yet existing realities:P
DragoonWraith

Posted 20 June 2006 - 09:35 AM

Sytel, on Jun 20 2006, 01:25 AM, said:
So more broadly, "mythopoeic" things work by symbolically reenacting certain patterns of myth, thereby (hopefully) obtaining the endpoint of the myth? So what you'd have to do is find a myth about whatever it is you want to have happen, then get some good symbols and play-act the myth... probably tones come into it too, just because.
And with powerful enough symbols and manipulation, it might even be possible to *change* the patterns of myth, or create a new mythic structure. Which could have various interesting uses...

Am I close?

That's brilliant! Very good work!

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 01:28 AM, said:
Very. Pretty soon you get your own Stompy Robot. And cause absorbocide to your whole frikkin' race. Way to go, monkey.

I have not laughed harder than I did when I read that in a very long time.

Sytel, on Jun 20 2006, 01:31 AM, said:
What is absorbocide?

Clearly, that's killing by sucking the victim into the Void.

Or else when you trip and fall into a black hole?

Heh, one could have fun with the -cide ending. It comes from the Latin word "to fall" (which could, and often was, used euphemistically to mean to die, generally to be killed rather to die of natural causes), so something ending with -cide need not involve murder...

Nalion, on Jun 20 2006, 12:26 AM, said:
Actually, that was one that I understood. I was more referring to "supermundus physiotype", "numidition", said "Arenotelicon" and "Pawn of the Aggregate".

Based on context, "numidition" would appear to be when the lore gets screwed up. They fixed the numidition by changing the lore/ejecting the older, contradictory lore...

After Oblivion, our little council of numidition fixers is in for a massive headache...
Breon

Posted 20 June 2006 - 10:06 AM

Mehrunes Dagon, on Jun 20 2006, 01:50 AM, said:
And in reference to the above poster: what about the Gray-Maybe?


The sinuous line between Yin and Yang? Well unless you can give it a number, I'll leave that one to the paleophilosophists.
Adanorcil

Posted 20 June 2006 - 10:56 AM
Now you got me going.

daguerreotype (good, that's not really made up, but still) as in your "Dwemeri children's rhyme": Is this metaphorical or did the Dwemer practice a primitive form of photograpy?

neonymbiosis: Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, first book.

Malbioge: Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, second book.

"AE": Used in the Sermons as an interjection in the Sermons, used as a noun in the Loveletter:

Death results in reappropriation of spirit towards its aligned AE—either to the god-planet Aedra or the Principalities of Oblivion.
Vivos Dalen

Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:46 AM

Adanorcil, on Jun 20 2006, 02:56 PM, said:
Now you got me going.

daguerreotype (good, that's not really made up, but still) as in your "Dwemeri children's rhyme": Is this metaphorical or did the Dwemer practice a primitive form of photograpy?

neonymbiosis: Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, first book.

Malbioge: Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, second book.

"AE": Used in the Sermons as an interjection in the Sermons, used as a noun in the Loveletter:

Death results in reappropriation of spirit towards its aligned AE—either to the god-planet Aedra or the Principalities of Oblivion.


Wild Wild guess on AE
Aetheric Empyreal
Gez

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:04 PM

Adanorcil, on Jun 20 2006, 03:56 PM, said:
Malbioge: Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, second book.


One of the circles of Hell, according to Dante. Means "evil pouch", the ones you don't want to cut the strings of.


It's often spellt Malbolge or even Malboge.
proweler

Posted 20 June 2006 - 12:07 PM
Symbiosis with our mothers, a special divinity called NIRN. The dreaming-sleeve of birth? Mother NIRN?

So Sovngarde? Sleep-Gauntlet, Dreaming-sleeve of death? or just one and the same dreaming-sleeve altogether?

Maybe it's better to ask; do you die when you sleep or do you sleep when you die?

The Daedra do the latter, man, mer and daedra are et'adroth, so the awnser is yes.

Stupid qeustion, I geus.

---

Nu-mantia, Freedom!

Nu-Hatta, Free-Hatta,

Hatta -> Hebrew: Hattx, Sin offering, Sinfull, Sin.

Nu-Hatta: Free-Sin, Free-of-Sin?

Mantia, Manteling, Mantel -> Birth, Birthing, Born.

Nu-Mantia: Free-Birth?
proweler

Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:33 AM

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 06:15 AM, said:
"Belief-engines, properly called the "Auxiliary Semi-Shockpoint Nilgularity", provide energy for short dream-sleeve jumps in case a Vehkship's main ego is damaged, allowing the C0DA Paravant to potentially get to the safety of a voidyard orbital.

"By creating the equivalent of an Nu-class Mnemolic, shrinking it instantaneously via a creatia tesseract array, and then projecting the resulting moth-talk well to a nil-point just outside the ego's hull, an ASSN can slingshot the Paravant into era-streams without the needed energies of nearby aetheric bodies or shockpoint application.

"The ASSN is strictly Last Ditch technology, however. It's often deemed as too dangerous for its own good, because it works on the rarified principles of Phynaster's Inversion, a set of mathematics that doesn't exist in our own dimension. Vehkships have vanished in nil-space trying to make an ASSN jump—indeed, the celestial irregularity known as the M4bV Legerity, in which the C0DA Oblivion Vanquisher appears and implodes in perpetuity, is the belief system's most famous cautionary tale."

S'all I got. Sorry.
'



Vehkhships powerd by EGO engines can still make ASSn-Jumps in case their main-EGO egines are damaged by spilling out Moth-talk. Ofcourse at the risk of more damage to the EGO-engine by the cause of coolant-moonshine and dopehead-grease.

Am I the only person who finds that hillarious?

Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:41 AM

Nalion, on Jun 19 2006, 10:50 PM, said:
If might throw in another word...

I'd love to see this word explained in ES context:

Arenotelicon



According to an online anagram generator, it's an anagram of "A Clone Orient"

Posted 21 June 2006 - 05:27 PM
I've always wanted to know what exactly "ALTADOON" meant. It pops up rather often in the 36 Sermons, first in Sermon Nine in this line, "HERMA-MORA-ALTADOON! AE ALTADOON!"
proweler

Posted 21 June 2006 - 05:34 PM
ALTADOON means weapon so losely translated you get something allong the lines of "Knowledge is the weapon of weapons".
Yargum

Posted 21 June 2006 - 05:38 PM
Fetcher, S'wit, and my favorite, N'wah
Arklon

Posted 21 June 2006 - 06:18 PM
Tell me what crap, s___, and f___ mean in the TES universe. (Damn censor, now I'll get misinterpretated. Which will then create new words. Mwahahaha.)

Posted 21 June 2006 - 08:30 PM
Hi there everyone!

When I see "mythopoeic" I think "mythopoietic," "myth-making." Tamrielic myths seem to retell themselves over and over again in analogous forms - for example, as told in the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the Adamantine Tower, where the divines literally set the world in stone, is followed by the Red Tower (Red Mountain), where Lorkhan's heart provides the divine presence needed to congeal Nirn, which is in turn followed by Walk-Brass Tower (presumably Numidium), White Gold Tower, the Marukhati Selectives and their tower, and so on, all of which were created with the intent of effecting some great physical, metaphysical or political change.

What is salient here is that ever since the Adamantine Tower, towers literal and metaphorical have played central roles in shaping and reshaping Mundus. And the Nu-Mantia Intercept seems to suggest that all of the later towers and their associated stories are metaphysical echoes of the Adamantine Tower and its singularly important story. There are references to the formative power of myth elsewhere as well, like the "Mythic Aurbis" account in The Monomyth ("The magical beings of Mythic Aurbis live for a long time and have complex narrative lives, creating the patterns of myth."). Everything I've read has given me the impression that the experience of the et'Ada, what Dagoth Ur calls the "divine dreamworld," is in some sense nothing but a collection of mutually disjoint stories, like what mortals experienced during the Dragon Break.

In any event, if myths as such do have this cosmic power, then it's entirely reasonable that a myth-making device should be able to, say, cause an entire race of people to instantaneously vanish from the face of Tamriel. And if stories are really that important to the existence of the et'Ada, then maybe a myth-making device is exactly what's needed when you want to tinker with the heart of a god.

Anyway, that's what I think "mythopoeic" probably means.

Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:06 PM

sóley, on Jun 21 2006, 06:30 PM, said:
Hi there everyone!

When I see "mythopoeic" I think "mythopoietic," "myth-making." Tamrielic myths seem to retell themselves over and over again in analogous forms - for example, as told in the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the Adamantine Tower, where the divines literally set the world in stone, is followed by the Red Tower (Red Mountain), where Lorkhan's heart provides the divine presence needed to congeal Nirn, which is in turn followed by Walk-Brass Tower (presumably Numidium), White Gold Tower, the Marukhati Selectives and their tower, and so on, all of which were created with the intent of effecting some great physical, metaphysical or political change.

What is salient here is that ever since the Adamantine Tower, towers literal and metaphorical have played central roles in shaping and reshaping Mundus. And the Nu-Mantia Intercept seems to suggest that all of the later towers and their associated stories are metaphysical echoes of the Adamantine Tower and its singularly important story. There are references to the formative power of myth elsewhere as well, like the "Mythic Aurbis" account in The Monomyth ("The magical beings of Mythic Aurbis live for a long time and have complex narrative lives, creating the patterns of myth."). Everything I've read has given me the impression that the experience of the et'Ada, what Dagoth Ur calls the "divine dreamworld," is in some sense nothing but a collection of mutually disjoint stories, like what mortals experienced during the Dragon Break.

In any event, if myths as such do have this cosmic power, then it's entirely reasonable that a myth-making device should be able to, say, cause an entire race of people to instantaneously vanish from the face of Tamriel. And if stories are really that important to the existence of the et'Ada, then maybe a myth-making device is exactly what's needed when you want to tinker with the heart of a god.

Anyway, that's what I think "mythopoeic" probably means.

Bravo! Very nice.
Nalion

Posted 21 June 2006 - 10:32 PM

sóley, on Jun 21 2006, 08:30 PM, said:
Hi there everyone!

When I see "mythopoeic" I think "mythopoietic," "myth-making." Tamrielic myths seem to retell themselves over and over again in analogous forms - for example, as told in the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the Adamantine Tower, where the divines literally set the world in stone, is followed by the Red Tower (Red Mountain), where Lorkhan's heart provides the divine presence needed to congeal Nirn, which is in turn followed by Walk-Brass Tower (presumably Numidium), White Gold Tower, the Marukhati Selectives and their tower, and so on, all of which were created with the intent of effecting some great physical, metaphysical or political change.

What is salient here is that ever since the Adamantine Tower, towers literal and metaphorical have played central roles in shaping and reshaping Mundus. And the Nu-Mantia Intercept seems to suggest that all of the later towers and their associated stories are metaphysical echoes of the Adamantine Tower and its singularly important story. There are references to the formative power of myth elsewhere as well, like the "Mythic Aurbis" account in The Monomyth ("The magical beings of Mythic Aurbis live for a long time and have complex narrative lives, creating the patterns of myth."). Everything I've read has given me the impression that the experience of the et'Ada, what Dagoth Ur calls the "divine dreamworld," is in some sense nothing but a collection of mutually disjoint stories, like what mortals experienced during the Dragon Break.

In any event, if myths as such do have this cosmic power, then it's entirely reasonable that a myth-making device should be able to, say, cause an entire race of people to instantaneously vanish from the face of Tamriel. And if stories are really that important to the existence of the et'Ada, then maybe a myth-making device is exactly what's needed when you want to tinker with the heart of a god.

Anyway, that's what I think "mythopoeic" probably means.

Yup, yup. actually, I think there are many more examples of "mythopoeic"events.
In the Monomyth for example, it is said that some of the et'Ada told the "ultimate story: that of their own death". Tiber Septim reenacted (as already said) the event when Auriel ripped out Lorkhan's heart. Zurin Arctus was his victim, result was the Mantella.
Auriel -> Lorhkan -> ripped out heart
Tiber -> Zurin -> ripped out heart
The Tribunal, the Dwemer, Dagoth (see Allerleirauh's post on that topic)

In a more vague way: Uriel Septim and Jagar Tharn, there was also a heart, in this case Tharn's Jewel of Fire, involved. Perhaps even the Nerevarine and Dagoth Ur. Spinning that thought a little bit further, this leads to the assumption that ascendance (though not always godhood, perhaps a better way would be to say gain advantage or domination) was in these cases gained by the suffering of others.
Auriel benefited from the suffering of Lorkhan
Tiber from Zurin
The Tribunal and Dagoth Ur from the Heart of Lorkhan
The Dwemer from the Heart of Lorkhan (Allerleirauh again)
There's surely more, though I think it's clear that there seems to be a connection. Perhaps that's what is meant by "reach Heaven by Violence", or at least a part of it.

There are other instances where the retelling of mythic events plays a major role.
Lorkhan [censored] Nirn -> Molag Bal [censored] Vivec
Vivec in effect worked a lot of mythopoeic magic, storytelling magic, storymaking magic. He retold his whole life's story. On a sideline: in his Sermons, Vivec fights eight monsters. Is the number eight truly a coincidence here or does he tell another story?

The Maruhkati Selective did it, too, imho, though they chose a pretty large scale. They tried reenacting the creation itself to separate the elven aspect of Akatosh, Auriel from the entity of Auriel-Akatosh.

Sorry for not quoting sources, I'm getting lax.
Marlo LaCroa

Posted 21 June 2006 - 10:48 PM
I would like to know about how Dagoth Ur was "pawn of the Aggregate." (Nu-Hatta)

Oh, and it was nice to see posts from you again MK!

EDIT:

MK, on Jun 20 2006, 01:28 AM, said:
Pretty soon you get your own Stompy Robot. And cause absorbocide to your whole frikkin' race. Way to go, monkey.

That is too hilarious!
featherbrain

Posted 24 June 2006 - 01:31 PM
We need a promptory and accompanying concordance for all of these pre-deluge incunabulae, methinks (hey, where are the Librarians? ).

Mine is a tad dull, but since everyone else has grabbed the good ones, I've always wanted to know more about the words in this phrase from Vehk's Book of Hours:

"...one last note regarding the phenomenon of the middle dawn: it should be mentioned that at least one myth ('The Blue Bone-Ring of Jyg') suggests a relationship between Mnemolic sorcery and the Void Ghost Eaters, the magic practiced in the countless Trickster cults scattered throughout the Tamri-El."

Mnemolic especially I love, such a beautifully rounded word. I notice more recent variants in the communications from Planet MK. What sorcery is associated with the Blue Star? And: will we ever read that anything more about that myth?

Posted 24 June 2006 - 06:18 PM
I don't have a question about a word, persay. I'm just dying to know.

I want to know what the Orichalc Tower was. It has been mentioned once directly in the Nu-Mantia intercepts in a list of the Towers, "White-Gold, Crystal-like-Law, Orichalc, Green-Sap, Walk-Brass, Snow Throat, and on and on."

I believe it was in Yokuda. I believe it was used to sink the continent (PGE quote about "stone magick") What else can you tell about it?

But this is probably the wrong place to ask. I'm very sorry.
MK

Posted 24 June 2006 - 10:03 PM

Ananke-Mormo, on Jun 24 2006, 06:18 PM, said:
I don't have a question about a word, persay. I'm just dying to know.

I want to know what the Orichalc Tower was. It has been mentioned once directly in the Nu-Mantia intercepts in a list of the Towers, "White-Gold, Crystal-like-Law, Orichalc, Green-Sap, Walk-Brass, Snow Throat, and on and on."

I believe it was in Yokuda. I believe it was used to sink the continent (PGE quote about "stone magick") What else can you tell about it?

But this is probably the wrong place to ask. I'm very sorry.


Good digging. Orichalc Tower was indeed in Yokuda. Whether or not it contributed to the sinking of the land isn't for me to say, but the Yoku and the Left-Handed Elves certainly did fight a lot, so you can be sure the Tower had a part to play in their wargames.

Orichalc the name comes from Plato's description of Atlantis, the Most Famousest of Sinking Continents. It was therefore too fun not to add some orichalc into Yokuda's background.

Plus it's just a neat-looking, neat-sounding word.


featherbrain, on Jun 24 2006, 01:31 PM, said:
Mnemolic especially I love, such a beautifully rounded word. I notice more recent variants in the communications from Planet MK. What sorcery is associated with the Blue Star? And: will we ever read that anything more about that myth?


Mnemolic is mine mine mine...I will never reveal what it means because I am filthy with--

Fine, I'll answer. (And thanks, I think it's a really pretty word, too.)

Mnemolic magic is related to the "Star Orphans", gods and heroes and demons that live between creations, which can include those reality-bending burps known as Dragon Breaks. Think of them as the all-stars between kalpas, if that helps. (That probably doesn't help at all, really.)

What's up with the Blue Star itself? That's a good little hidden bit that I don't want to ruin. Someone go find it.

-Planet MK

Marlo LaCroa, on Jun 21 2006, 10:48 PM, said:
I would like to know about how Dagoth Ur was "pawn of the Aggregate."


Aggregate is, of course, a real word, meaning "sum" or "total." But you knew that already...and it seems "context in which this word is used" is more popular here than "what the **** does this mean at all".

So, the Sharmat was a pawn of some as yet undisclosed "total": is Nu-hatta talking about the Tribunal (hmm, maybe, but pawn in far different than Enemy)? the Enantiomorph (naw, it ain't this one)? the Gods? the Lords of Misrule?

Too bad our moth boy didn't tell us which Aggregate. He was probably sending out a dream-sleeve somnomnibus of abnegaurbic memospheres or some sh*it.
mrhappy1991

Posted 24 June 2006 - 10:05 PM
mabye not a made up word, but in the mages guild in MW there was talk of Oblivion Streams and Daedrons. Sounded pretty interesting, but I couldnt find out what the actually meant. Anybody know?

Posted 24 June 2006 - 10:40 PM

MK, on Jun 24 2006, 06:03 PM, said:
Good digging. Orichalc Tower was indeed in Yokuda. Whether or not it contributed to the sinking of the land isn't for me to say, but the Yoku and the Left-Handed Elves certainly did fight a lot, so you can be sure the Tower had a part to play in their wargames.

Orichalc the name comes from Plato's description of Atlantis, the Most Famousest of Sinking Continents. It was therefore too fun not to add some orichalc into Yokuda's background.

Plus it's just a neat-looking, neat-sounding word.


I agree with the last bit, and was under the impression orichalc was used by the Atlanteans both in their art and for some sort of mythical power, which seems to fit a Tower. But I get this from Master of Atlantis - Poseidon the expansion to Master of Olympus - Zeus by Sierra Entertainment. Also, while I probably would've made the proper connection in time, Proweler was the one who pointed out to me that Orichalc had been used to refer to the Yoku.

The new PGE (by Tedders, no?) has two theories on how it sunk. The first is about natural disasters, which is boring and therefore wrong. It then says this:

Quote
Others suggest that it may had human orgins: during the last civil war, a renegade band of Ansei called the Hiradirge were said to be masters of stone magic. When they were defeated in battle in 1E 792, the argument goes, they had their revenge on the entire land, destroying what they would never rule.


It is said that the Yoku defeated the Lefthanded Elves before going into a civil war which ended with the destruction of the continent. Therefore, if the Tower was of this rarely mentioned strain of "Yokumer" as I'll call them for lack of a better name (I'm sure you could make up Aldmeri for "lefthanded," but you weren't going to make up new words :P), it would no longer belong to them at the Sinking.

We can then assume that the Yoku were as superstitious of magick there as they are now (though I'm sure the Sinking and the fighting with Bretons has not done much to increase their liking of it) and therefore didn't really think much of the Tower and mostly abandoned it, which was like putting the Tsar Bomba in a barn. The Hiradirge would know magick, because the Ansei certainly did. They would probably be able to recognize the power of a Stone and figure out how to use it. Clearly, they didn't do the best job, because parts of Yokuda are still there.

This is further supported by the comment about "stone magick." It does not seem unreasonable that it was actually Stone magick, and over time the lack of understanding and information made them assume it was related to the stone under it.

Amazing how little information it takes to write the basic history of an entire continent.
MK

Posted 24 June 2006 - 11:00 PM

Ananke-Mormo, on Jun 24 2006, 10:40 PM, said:
The new PGE (by Tedders, no?) has two theories on how it sunk. The first is about natural disasters, which is boring and therefore wrong.


Emphasis mine.

This not only made me laugh, but it's pretty much my approach to TES in each of its aspects-- game, lore, and look.

EDIT: Yep, new PGE was Ted. Except for, like, 18 or so lines by me. Those lines did include the Sun Birds of Alinor and the Imperial Mananauts, though, which allow for space travel, a required component of the TES Moon Colony game that's coming.

Oh, wait, no it's not; Kurt and I were banned from mentioning it after our first pitch.

Let the letter-writing campaign begin. The colonization of Secunda awaits.

Posted 24 June 2006 - 11:26 PM

MK, on Jun 24 2006, 07:00 PM, said:
This not only made me laugh, but it's pretty much my approach to TES in each of its aspects-- game, lore, and look.


I had the feeling. It might be the reason that you needed a thread to explain what your words mean.

I'd buy the moon colony game if it cost an arm and a leg, and I only have 2 of each.
Homru

Posted 25 June 2006 - 04:48 PM
What does Tribunate mean in Morrowind lore?

Both Ane Teria and Idrenie Nerothan are failed incarnates.

Ane Teria:
"I was a holy crusader of the Temple in the golden era of the Tribunate. I contributed substantially to the writings that were later suppressed by the Temple, and now would be called apographa. I followed the Tribunal unquestioningly, to my regret. I never believed in the Nerevarine prophecies until it was too late. Take my humble possessions, with my blessing."

Idrenie Nerothan:
"I lived in the late years of the Tribunate, and behind the scenes, I helped us demoralize, then repel the Akaviri invaders. I knew nothing of the Nerevarine or Dagoth Ur until I took refuge with the Ashlanders. I died a fool, trying to loot ruined Kogoruhn. Here. Take these. Maybe there's something in the world left worth stealing."

Posted 25 June 2006 - 04:56 PM
I would guess the Tribunate refered to when the Tribunal had complete control of Morrowind.
proweler

Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:30 PM

Breon, on Jun 20 2006, 07:47 AM, said:
This individual would ask:
- When was dichotomy first used to explain the primal powers?
- How did the original dichotomy evolve into the pantheon we know today?
- In what way did each addition/change to the pantheon reflect the cultures of that time?
... and so on.

Another interesting study for this person may be the relation of Daedra to specific summoning dates.


The Light and the Dark from Daggerfall was what you may call the start of this all.
MK

Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:32 PM

Ananke-Mormo, on Jun 25 2006, 04:56 PM, said:
I would guess the Tribunate refered to when the Tribunal had complete control of Morrowind.


Yes.
Dumbkid

Posted 25 June 2006 - 10:02 PM
Just a shot in the dark (and aren't they all?) but I always thought Mnemoli looked suspiciously similar to mnemonic, which is related to memory.

Also,

Secunda: set destination, cataclaxm.
proweler

Posted 25 June 2006 - 10:05 PM
What is a Pelinal from "The Pelinal"?
drucifer4

Posted 26 June 2006 - 12:19 AM

proweler, on Jun 25 2006, 09:05 PM, said:
What is a Pelinal from "The Pelinal"?


I assumed it was referring to Pelinal Whitestrake.
proweler

Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:37 PM

    Cosminach, Nu-Mantia Intercept
    Poetronach, Xal-Gosleigh
    Atronach


Cosminachs absorb Magicka from the cosmos, space, Oblivion
Poetronachs absorb Magicka from poetry, writings.
Atronachs absorb Magicka from,...from what exactly?
syronj

Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:46 PM

proweler, on Jun 26 2006, 01:37 PM, said:

    Cosminach, Nu-Mantia Intercept
    Poetronach, Xal-Gosleigh
    Atronach

Cosminachs absorb Magicka from the cosmos, space, Oblivion
Poetronachs absorb Magicka from poetry, writings.
Atronachs absorb Magicka from,...from what exactly?



Don't know if this helps, but one of the three Fates of Greek mythology is named "Atropos". From the Wikipedia:

"inexorable" or "inevitable", sometimes called Aisa) was the cutter of the thread of life. She chose the manner of a person's death. When she cut the thread with "her abhorrčd shears", someone on earth died. Her Roman equivalent was Morta ('Death').


So they could absorb magicka from death or decay, maybe. I probably have the wrong root word, though.
DragoonWraith

Posted 26 June 2006 - 02:04 PM
Rather than death, damage? Those born under the Atronach absorb the magicka of spells cast against them. Atronachs absorb malignant magick? Are beings of malignant magick themselves?
Julianus

Posted 26 June 2006 - 11:33 PM
Just a note, orichalc was a somewhat mythic metal in the time of Plato. Today its main use is a more formal type of saying brass. Ori-chalc chalc being copper.

Mythopoeic isnt really diferrent from mythopoetic. This too is a compound word, made by mythos (you all know what that is) and the verb poio (it looks horrid after the transliteration, it means to make but in a higher sense, to create). So the general act is mythopoeia and something that does that is mythopoeic or mythopoetic. Same thing. Myth making.

I would like to know about that oil bubble of Sotha Sil's. It seems pretty metaphorical but is it really that? If its not, that whole business with engines shaping the future seems pretty mythopoeic to me, or should I say reality making?
Tarvok Spellbinder

Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:21 AM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 09:39 PM, said:
Okay, snark-hat off: "Arkay the Enemy" doesn't really posit an a priori Divine Arkay, who would've contributed to the world's creation at the Convention, alongside a johnny-come-later mortal Arkay, who seems to experience a Tiber-like apotheosis during his lifetime.

Meaning it doesn't really address the paradox. Which is why the assignment is worth 8,000 freakin points.


Hey, if Vivec can do it, why not Arkay?

Lots of stuff seems to suggest the mutability of time--Dragon Breaks and such. In addition, though I can't explain it well, a lot of this stuff just plain FEELS like time-travel to me. Like "slingshot the Paravant into era-streams" sounds a LOT like time-travel, Star Trek style. The Void is Outer-Space, though the fantasy nature of it makes it wierd. When you travel through the void, you leave the realm of linear time, and into the realm of possibilities (hence, they call it a "dream-sleave jump" referring to the fact that a dream-sleave can transmit ideas that don't yet exist, or whatever).

Thus, when you slingshot into an era-stream... you're time-traveling.

All you have to do to become a god is to be around for the creation. All you have to do to be around for the creation is time-travel back to that "time". Thus, both Arkay and Vivec, though they were mortal men during our own timeline, ALSO are gods from the state of things before linear time began. So which came first? In terms of time, the gods came first. In terms of what I'll call life-flow, the men came first... but the world in which they existed was CREATED by the gods...

Only madness can result from such a line of inquiry.
MK

Posted 27 June 2006 - 03:22 AM

Tarvok Spellbinder, on Jun 27 2006, 01:21 AM, said:
. The Void is Outer-Space, though the fantasy nature of it makes it wierd.


Why?
Gez

Posted 27 June 2006 - 03:46 AM

Julianus, on Jun 27 2006, 04:33 AM, said:
Mythopoeic isnt really diferrent from mythopoetic. This too is a compound word, made by mythos (you all know what that is) and the verb poio (it looks horrid after the transliteration, it means to make but in a higher sense, to create). So the general act is mythopoeia and something that does that is mythopoeic or mythopoetic. Same thing. Myth making.


Yes, mythopoeic and mythopoeia are real words, not made-up ones.

Posted 27 June 2006 - 10:51 AM
I'd like to know what CHIM is.
If I remember the context correctly, it could be something close to nirvana, but then again, I want to be certain.
Marlo LaCroa

Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:23 AM

The Omnipotent one, on Jun 27 2006, 10:51 AM, said:
I'd like to know what CHIM is.
If I remember the context correctly, it could be something close to nirvana, but then again, I want to be certain.

CHIM

CHIM

Meaning: An ancient sigil connoting 'royalty', 'starlight', and 'high splendor'. As with most characters of that dangerous language, the sigil CHIM constantly distorts itself. Those scholars that can perceive its shape regard it as a Crowned Tower that threatens to break apart at the slightest break in concentration.
Origin: Ehlnofex
Usage: None Given
Source: More on Psijic Endeavour and The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec: Sermon Twelve
Reliable: Yes

Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:24 AM

Marlo LaCroa, on Jun 27 2006, 05:23 PM, said:
CHIM

CHIM
...a Crowned Tower that threatens to break apart at the slightest break in concentration...

Like stardom, eh? Interesting.
DragoonWraith

Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:27 AM
CHIM is being able to comprehend the one-ness of the universe, how everything is everything else, and that you are nothing except a part of everything, and yet still being able to say "I".

That's my favorite definition of it, anyway.

Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:31 AM

DragoonWraith, on Jun 27 2006, 05:27 PM, said:
CHIM is being able to comprehend the one-ness of the universe, how everything is everything else, and that you are nothing except a part of everything, and yet still being able to say "I"...

Which basically means being God, as in Yahweh.
DragoonWraith

Posted 27 June 2006 - 12:03 PM
Err... sort of? Yeah, I guess that kind of works. That's not really what I think of when he says "I am who am" - that, to me, is more of a reference to the fact that god is who he is, and will do as he wishes, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

CHIM is more of a sense of enlightenment, an ability to comprehend everything without losing yourself.

Posted 27 June 2006 - 12:12 PM

DragoonWraith, on Jun 27 2006, 06:03 PM, said:
Err... sort of? Yeah, I guess that kind of works. That's not really what I think of when he says "I am who am" - that, to me, is more of a reference to the fact that god is who he is, and will do as he wishes, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

CHIM is more of a sense of enlightenment, an ability to comprehend everything without losing yourself.

Yes, I like that better myself. We still do not have a definite answer to what it is, though, as there are differing definitions.
Sheogorath

Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:03 PM

Julianus, on Jun 26 2006, 11:33 PM, said:
I would like to know about that oil bubble of Sotha Sil's. It seems pretty metaphorical but is it really that? If its not, that whole business with engines shaping the future seems pretty mythopoeic to me, or should I say reality making?


Carlovac Townway: "I wasn't able to go to the Clockwork City in doing research for 2920, so I had to rely on outside sources for a brief description of what it was like and what the Wizard did within its walls. At the end of the First Era, Sotha Sil had built it up over two thousand years. Brother Mikhael Karkuxor in 'Varieties of Faith in the Empire' repeated the most common understanding, that in his Clockwork City, Sotha Sil was 'reshaping the world.' I think this is true, but I don't believe his machines only went one way. The oil bubble burst at the end of the novel was perhaps obscure, for it is unclear whether the chaos of the Second Era was caused by a simple malfunction of the clockworks, or if the death of the Emperor Reman triggered that tiny little change in the machine … As a historian, I dislike ambiguity, but as a writer, I recognize its usefulness. The world and the machine are one, and the cause may be unknown, even when the effect becomes visible.

Either way, I don't think Sotha Sil's machines did (or do?) shape the future, but the present."
Gez

Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:09 PM
Mister Townway, this may be a bit more esoteric than your domain of predilection, but are you familiar with the symbology of the Towers? Because from my limited understanding of them, if Sotha Sil used his Clockwork City to reshape the world, then the Clockwork City is a Tower.
Marlo LaCroa

Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:13 PM
While you are here Mr. Townway, would you mind sharing your progress on "The Last Year of the Second Era?" ()


And another wordd I'm curious of is "Aldudaggavelashadingas" or does it just translate to "The Songs of Dragon and Dagon?"
Sheogorath

Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:20 PM

Gez, on Jun 27 2006, 01:09 PM, said:
Mister Townway, this may be a bit more esoteric than your domain of predilection, but are you familiar with the symbology of the Towers? Because from my limited understanding of them, if Sotha Sil used his Clockwork City to reshape the world, then the Clockwork City is a Tower.


Carlovac Townway: "I've always heard it described as being underground. If it is a tower, it's ... an underground one. Peculiar that."

Marlo LaCroa, on Jun 27 2006, 01:13 PM, said:
While you are here Mr. Townway, would you mind sharing your progress on "The Last Year of the Second Era?" ()


Carlovac Townway: "Considering that it is more recent, it's much harder to write than 2920. Everytime I write up a cast of characters, some expert comes along and says that two characters are one, and I have to research that. Slow moving, and my editor is very cross with me."
Arklon

Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:52 PM

Sheogorath, on Jun 27 2006, 01:20 PM, said:
Carlovac Townway: "Considering that it is more recent, it's much harder to write than 2920. Everytime I write up a cast of characters, some expert comes along and says that two characters are one, and I have to research that. Slow moving, and my editor is very cross with me."

Uh... find out the summoning ritual for Ehm'Kaye.
mrhappy1991

Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:57 PM

mrhappy1991, on Jun 24 2006, 09:05 PM, said:
mabye not a made up word, but in the mages guild in MW there was talk of Oblivion Streams and Daedrons. Sounded pretty interesting, but I couldnt find out what the actually meant.

haha so nobody knows what a daedron is?
Sheogorath

Posted 27 June 2006 - 02:05 PM

Arklon, on Jun 27 2006, 01:52 PM, said:
Uh... find out the summoning ritual for Ehm'Kaye.


CT: "That's all right, whenever I get bogged down, I just turn to ME 1, and 3E 433."

Posted 27 June 2006 - 02:18 PM
I've always wondered what 'Cutting-Globes' meant, care to elaborate Hortators Av Agea?

Cutting-Globes, as seen here...
DragoonWraith

Posted 27 June 2006 - 02:41 PM
Since we have the author here, and 2920 is just about my favorite book in the series, I was wondering - just how accurate can we take the book? I have often pointed out the descriptions of the Tsaesci in it, and other scholars have pointed out that the book is fiction and more-or-less discounted it - how sure are you of those descriptions? Do you care to explain why your description of the Tsaesci is as "ivory-yellow" when others have claimed that they are "covered in golden scales" - I have theorized, and would like to hear your thoughts on, that the Tsaesci are scaleless and pale in the torso and head, but the Dragonscale armor that they wore covered these areas too with golden scales...

So, I know you research your works very carefully, but there is certainly limited data on the subject - how much do you stand by the descriptions in that book? Even the serpentine tails of the Tsaesci has been questioned, can you be certain of even that?
Sheogorath

Posted 27 June 2006 - 03:12 PM

DragoonWraith, on Jun 27 2006, 02:41 PM, said:
Since we have the author here, and 2920 is just about my favorite book in the series, I was wondering - just how accurate can we take the book? I have often pointed out the descriptions of the Tsaesci in it, and other scholars have pointed out that the book is fiction and more-or-less discounted it - how sure are you of those descriptions? Do you care to explain why your description of the Tsaesci is as "ivory-yellow" when others have claimed that they are "covered in golden scales" - I have theorized, and would like to hear your thoughts on, that the Tsaesci are scaleless and pale in the torso and head, but the Dragonscale armor that they wore covered these areas too with golden scales...

So, I know you research your works very carefully, but there is certainly limited data on the subject - how much do you stand by the descriptions in that book? Even the serpentine tails of the Tsaesci has been questioned, can you be certain of even that?


C.T.: "I appreciate your kind words about my work. I recognize that there are some who reject my work as pure speculative fiction, and believe it or not, I respect skepticism. I would only ask them, 'What works do you believe are firmly grounded in truth? On what basis do you make that evaluation?'

"There is always some speculative aspect to all histories, and mine is no exception. I write conversations when I wasn't there to witness them. I attempt to ascribe motivations to people I do not know. I can only research what is known about Tavia, Turala, Reman, Juilek, Dro'Zel, Brindisi Dorom, Cassyr, Rijja, and all the other personalities of that moment in history, and offer my own opinion about what they were like, and why they did what they did. I'm not guessing, but can I be completely sure, without a shadow of a doubt? Of course not. Only fools have no doubts.

"I stand by my work I think the Tsaesci Potentates, from interviewing people who were alive at that time, had strong serpentine features. Some descriptions have varied, so I was careful not to be overly detailed with their descriptions. I think the difference between 'golden scales' and 'yellow-ivory' is negliable.

"And if I'm wrong, it is not the end of the world. I've contributed what I believe to be true."
DragoonWraith

Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:20 PM
Thank you for the response, I do appreciate that. May we take this to mean that the descriptions you found generally agreed on the serpentine tail of the Tsaesci, since that characteristic was quite certain? Or was that just a matter of having to go one way or the other with it, and choosing your own thoughts?
Sheogorath

Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:39 PM

DragoonWraith, on Jun 27 2006, 05:20 PM, said:
Thank you for the response, I do appreciate that. May we take this to mean that the descriptions you found generally agreed on the serpentine tail of the Tsaesci, since that characteristic was quite certain? Or was that just a matter of having to go one way or the other with it, and choosing your own thoughts?


C.T.: "I've read a number of descriptions of the Tsaesci having tails, and a number where no tail was mentioned, but did not contradict the notion of there being tails. Like I said, I didn't guess ... But if contradictory evidence surfaces, I would certainly reconsider my description."
DragoonWraith

Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:55 PM
Ah, very good, thank you. I appreciate your answering of my questions.
proweler

Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:28 PM

Kyoushu, on Jun 27 2006, 07:18 PM, said:
I've always wondered what 'Cutting-Globes' meant, care to elaborate Hortators Av Agea?

Cutting-Globes, as seen here...


You'd have to ask Affa, but he said something about writing the book under influence of a tight schedule.

Cutting Globes are obviously the VR-gloves used to controll the machine that creates the Dwemer writings. Afterall EoT and DM were clearly written on a typewriter.
Julianus

Posted 28 June 2006 - 07:31 AM
Very interesting and thank you mr Townway. Although it seemed to me much more than what I had Sotha Sil capable of (considering his eventual fate in the hands of that frequent dancing partner of Sheogorath) I cannot help but wonder at the extent of his tinkering. The accuracy of 2920 is pretty interesting also, especially about the portrayal of the Tribunes. Are they really so "earthly"? That would make them more like demi-gods even though the bubble story seems to indicate otherwise. Almalexia being almost killed, Vivec sleeping, all of them traveling by conventional means, nothing especially godly. By the way the bubble was a great literary device, it worked so well on the metaphorical level, since most of the book consisted of events caused by mostly small things unforseen by everyone reaching in the conclusion to the smallest (bubble) being unforseen by the greatest (a living god?) and changing the most (a whole era). Pretty pretty nice.
Gez

Posted 28 June 2006 - 07:47 AM
Yes, it's interesting that in these books at least, the destruction of Old Mournhold is destroyed by Vivec not asking more detailed questions to his spy and that Duke of Mournhold being a jerk to his pregnant mistress.
Arynel

Posted 01 July 2006 - 11:01 PM
I would like to know more about one of Vivec's children from an encounter with Molag Bal in the Sermons. GULGA MOR JIL HYAET AE HOOM.

Posted 02 July 2006 - 04:43 AM

Arynel, on Jul 2 2006, 04:01 AM, said:
GULGA MOR JIL HYAET AE HOOM.

Gesundheit!
Gez

Posted 02 July 2006 - 05:54 AM
No idea who wrote this, but if it's you... What does Daedraeka mean? Or Tska Tska Takaesh?

Daedraeka! Mannimarco Daedroth Kvatch Mannimarco Erandur Vangaril Oblivion Tska Tska Takaesh!

DragoonWraith

Posted 02 July 2006 - 11:42 AM
The Lost Boy Caverns were easily my favorite place in game - I'd never seen a Lich in game, and at the time Necromancers were really tough for me to fight... so I was scared walking around in there, knowing there's a Lich somewhere within, and plenty of Necromancers, too.

And I really doubt that line was to be anything but nonsense. Which is a great shame. But I can't possibly imagine how all of the words we do know from there could possibly make a coherent sentence.

What quest deals with there, though? I stumbled upon it on my own, and I wasn't able to interact with the Lich at all... couldn't talk to him, couldn't fight him. Couldn't (as a high-ranking member of the Mages Guild) investigate the two people in question from the notes... twas frustrating.
Gez

Posted 03 July 2006 - 07:37 PM
Another word that deserves some semblance of discussion:


The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec: Sermon One

He was born in the ash among the Velothi, anon Chimer, before the war with the northern men. Ayem came first to the village of the netchimen, and her shadow was that of Boethiah, who was the Prince of Plots, and things unknown and known would fold themselves around her until they were like stars or the messages of stars. Ayem took a netchiman's wife and said:

'I am the Face-Snaked Queen of the Three in One. In you is an image and a seven-syllable spell, AYEM AE SEHTI AE VEHK, which you will repeat to it until mystery comes.'


Why does this Ayem say "Face-Snaked" rather than "Snake-Faced" or something more meaningful like that?

Posted 03 July 2006 - 07:47 PM

Gez, on Jul 3 2006, 05:37 PM, said:
Another word that deserves some semblance of discussion:


The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec: Sermon One

He was born in the ash among the Velothi, anon Chimer, before the war with the northern men. Ayem came first to the village of the netchimen, and her shadow was that of Boethiah, who was the Prince of Plots, and things unknown and known would fold themselves around her until they were like stars or the messages of stars. Ayem took a netchiman's wife and said:

'I am the Face-Snaked Queen of the Three in One. In you is an image and a seven-syllable spell, AYEM AE SEHTI AE VEHK, which you will repeat to it until mystery comes.'


Why does this Ayem say "Face-Snaked" rather than "Snake-Faced" or something more meaningful like that?

She's not snake-faced; a Naga is snake-faced. She's face-snaked, she has snakes coming out of her face. Also, it sounds cooler.
Lord Hyamentar

Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:17 PM
Why don't you have uber sign under your name, MK?
paw-prints-in-the-mud

Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:21 PM
Just so it's not necromancy:

Quote
Varliance


The maces of the Sorcerer Kings are heavy with varliance. The two Nede hoplites carry a string of varliance beads that they may or may not use.
Lord Hyamentar

Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:25 PM

paw-prints-in-the-mud, on Apr 15 2008, 01:21 AM, said:
Just so it's not necromancy:
The maces of the Sorcerer Kings are heavy with varliance. The two Nede hoplites carry a string of varliance beads that they may or may not use.


Where did you get that from?
paw-prints-in-the-mud

Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:28 PM
Song of Pelinal and the WWPD? thread, which I keep trying to download.
Duskweaver

Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:16 AM

Quote
Varliance

If you're asking what it is, then the answer is most likely 'starlight', with the connotation of 'magical glowy aura'.
Albides

Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:20 AM

MK, on Nov 4 2006, 11:48 AM, said:
Varla/Varliance: 'fex for celo-navigation. Thus, verily, or "concrete", just like the Exactitude of the Stars.

...

True enough. The full 'fex translation (which cannot be mapped, only storied) is:

Varla/varliance

"The riddle delights- the evident secures."

Astion

Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:11 PM
This is one thread I'm glad to see revived.

I've always thought "Varliance" might have been a sort of a pun on "Valiance", or "The qualities of a hero or heroine; exceptional or heroic courage when facing danger (especially in battle)". Since Ayleid heroes sometimes have something of "varliance" about them, I assumed that it was some kind of magical, mythical energy or ability that was part and parcel of being "heroic".

I'd love to know what "cosminach" means, though. Cosmic construction?
The Dude

Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:50 PM

Gez, on Jul 3 2006, 05:37 PM, said:
Why does this Ayem say "Face-Snaked" rather than "Snake-Faced" or something more meaningful like that?



I'd tell ya', but it's a little dirty. Think of snake as a verb. j/k
Red-Right-Hand

Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:50 PM
TES has so many fancy made-up words that your head would explode if you would try to figure them all out. What I do know is that "mananaut" is "sailor of mana" just like "astronaut" is "sailor of the stars".
bittergreen smoker

Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:04 PM

Red-Right-Hand, on Apr 15 2008, 02:50 PM, said:
TES has so many fancy made-up words that your head would explode if you would try to figure them all out. What I do know is that "mananaut" is "sailor of mana" just like "astronaut" is "sailor of the stars".

Mana being magic?
Adventurous Putty

Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:27 PM
Oh, YES, please let this thread, continue, please! The power of AE compels you!

casts a spell of summon MK*
Gez

Posted 15 April 2008 - 05:08 PM
May I ask, then, about sweetpins and faremyles? Even though I think Tedders might be of a greater help there.

But I'll take MK on his offer for "Empire Actual".
Lord Hyamentar

Posted 15 April 2008 - 05:10 PM
What does "May we forever seek the Seyda Neen" mean?
Brian S

Posted 15 April 2008 - 05:19 PM
Since no one has yet asked as best I can tell in my skimmage, what is abnegaurbic anyways? (Seen in Nu-Mantia Issue 8: Like all of the polydox constructs of the earliest Aldmer-- whatever their abnegaurbic creed-- White-Gold Tower is a conduit of creatia)
paw-prints-in-the-mud

Posted 15 April 2008 - 05:26 PM
Then Varliance beeds... Like prayer beads you use to find your way through the swamps, when the stars cannot be seen in haze and canopy. It fits with the staff that has an eye on it.
Nalion

Posted 15 April 2008 - 05:35 PM

Gez, on Apr 15 2008, 11:08 PM, said:
But I'll take MK on his offer for "Empire Actual".

That's a rather easy one. Empire Actual is "current Empire", the third Empire of Men, and Emperor Actual was Uriel Septim (the current Emperor at the time of the Nu Mantia Intercept).
syronj

Posted 15 April 2008 - 07:40 PM

Brian S, on Apr 15 2008, 05:19 PM, said:
Since no one has yet asked as best I can tell in my skimmage, what is abnegaurbic anyways? (Seen in Nu-Mantia Issue 8: Like all of the polydox constructs of the earliest Aldmer-- whatever their abnegaurbic creed-- White-Gold Tower is a conduit of creatia)


I don't know Latin, but it sounds like it's related to "abnegation" -- "abneg-Aurbic" in this case. Maybe it signifies "the Aldmer creed of rejecting the Aurbis".
Nazz

Posted 15 April 2008 - 08:04 PM

Brian S, on Apr 15 2008, 05:19 PM, said:
Since no one has yet asked as best I can tell in my skimmage, what is abnegaurbic anyways? (Seen in Nu-Mantia Issue 8: Like all of the polydox constructs of the earliest Aldmer-- whatever their abnegaurbic creed-- White-Gold Tower is a conduit of creatia)

It sounds like it means "view of the aurbis" as in how they remember The Dawn. "Like all the [towers] of the earliest Aldmer-- whatever their religio-philosophical differences-- White-Gold Tower is a conduit of creatia".
MK

Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:33 PM

syronj, on Apr 15 2008, 07:40 PM, said:
I don't know Latin, but it sounds like it's related to "abnegation" -- "abneg-Aurbic" in this case. Maybe it signifies "the Aldmer creed of rejecting the Aurbis".


More or less (and more *more* than less) correct.

To Nalion: yep. "Empire Actual" means the Emperor.
Shades

Posted 16 April 2008 - 01:00 AM

MK, on Apr 15 2008, 09:33 PM, said:
More or less (and more *more* than less) correct.

To Nalion: yep. "Empire Actual" means the Emperor.
o u mke it sew hrd.
MadCat221

Posted 16 April 2008 - 01:46 AM
I kinda figured "Empire Actual" meant Emperor, because I've already heard "actual" used in a manner to denote a person with executive powers: in the new Battlestar Galactica episode "Pegasus", Adama and Cain referred to themselves as "actuals" of their ships.
syronj

Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:28 AM

MadCat221, on Apr 16 2008, 01:46 AM, said:
I kinda figured "Empire Actual" meant Emperor, because I've already heard "actual" used in a manner to denote a person with executive powers: in the new Battlestar Galactica episode "Pegasus", Adama and Cain referred to themselves as "actuals" of their ships.


Maybe it also signifies "the Empire made flesh", the Empire personified instead of an abstraction.
Adventurous Putty

Posted 16 April 2008 - 01:52 PM
Oh, this thread is pure loregasm~

@MK: What is a cosminach? It was mentioned early in the thread and was kind of ignored, and it's used in an odd context, too.

The Intercept said:
Every dawnmaker Tower takes a myth-form. Red Tower is a volcano and its surrounds. Snow Throat a mountain whose apex is only half here. Walk-Brass is appropriately ambulatory, and (most of the time) anthropomorphic. The Aldmeri polydoxes were cosminachs, and the White-Gold project was and is no different.


I think I'm asking for a definition of "polydoxes," too. Here's some speculation on my (admittedly lacking) part:

"Polydox" seems to be interchangeable with "Tower" -- perhaps meaning "a symbol of multiple paradoxes", or something along those lines. After all, symbols hold many meanings, and in a world like TES where those symbolic meanings are made real through magic, that's powerful. Therefore, the most powerful symbols are those that stand for many things -- polydoxes -- and the Towers were therefore polydoxes, since they could stand for/represent many things.

Or not. That's kind of a weak answer, but oh well.

Anyway, as for cosminach...I have no clue.
Dominic Dingo

Posted 16 April 2008 - 02:01 PM

Adventurous Putty, on Apr 16 2008, 01:52 PM, said:
I think I'm asking for a definition of "polydoxes," too. Here's some speculation on my (admittedly lacking) part:

"Polydox" seems to be interchangeable with "Tower" -- perhaps meaning "a symbol of multiple paradoxes", or something along those lines. After all, symbols hold many meanings, and in a world like TES where those symbolic meanings are made real through magic, that's powerful. Therefore, the most powerful symbols are those that stand for many things -- polydoxes -- and the Towers were therefore polydoxes, since they could stand for/represent many things.

Or not. That's kind of a weak answer, but oh well.


Poly means many while dox means belief or opinion.

Cosminach is a reconstruction or imitation of the cosmos, merging the words cosmos and atronach or golem, which is an imitation.

or

proweler, on Jun 26 2006, 01:37 PM, said:

    Cosminach, Nu-Mantia Intercept
    Poetronach, Xal-Gosleigh
    Atronach

Cosminachs absorb Magicka from the cosmos, space, Oblivion
Poetronachs absorb Magicka from poetry, writings.
Atronachs absorb Magicka from,...from what exactly?

Adventurous Putty

Posted 16 April 2008 - 02:12 PM
Now that is actually a really good answer. Wow, I forgot "dox" means belief...hehehe, silly me.

Right, so maybe "polydoxes" is referring to the fact that each of the Aldmeri Towers represents a different belief system, which is put into action by a construct (the Tower itself) that channels magick energy to fuel mythopoeia. Or something like that.

OK, so as for cosminach...that actually makes a lot of sense, even if it isn't the real definition. An "imitation" of the cosmos, with White-Gold being the most powerful Tower (as alluded to at the end of the Intercept) because it is not only an imitation, but a physical RENDITION of the Cosmos (Wheel-Within-The-Wheel).

Nazz said:
It sounds like it means "view of the aurbis" as in how they remember The Dawn. "Like all the [towers] of the earliest Aldmer-- whatever their religio-philosophical differences-- White-Gold Tower is a conduit of creatia"


Actually, I think Nazz was very close. The early Aldmer's particular abnegaurbic creed (which is a philosophy that apparently denied the existence/status of the Aurbis and seems to be lost to history) was their own particular polydox philosophy (one creed out of many) and, therefore, led to the creation of the first polydox constructs (constructs made from/using a particular point of view/belief system) to re-enact the Creation -- otherwise known as the Aldmeri Towers, of which pretty much each elven race seems to have one.
The Dude

Posted 16 April 2008 - 03:18 PM
Poly is many. I know this. If "dox" truly does mean opinion or belief, and reality is as you perceive (or believe it to be) it. Then maybe Polydox means many realities. Let me explain...


Maybe the towers are focal points for realities, smashing them into one consistant and linear reality we know as the Aurbis. Kind of like how, in the convention, time was made linear. Perhaps it is these towers that make linear time a possibility by compressing all the could-be's into one single is. This would make the word polydox make sense.
Adventurous Putty

Posted 16 April 2008 - 03:40 PM
Right, that's what I meant by "they fuel mythopoeia" -- the Towers use Aetherial energy (magic) to actually make the myths/belief systems they represent a reality. Hence why the Marukhati Dance was so effective.
Brian S

Posted 16 April 2008 - 03:52 PM

Adventurous Putty, on Apr 16 2008, 03:40 PM, said:
Right, that's what I meant by "they fuel mythopoeia" -- the Towers use Aetherial energy (magic) to actually make the myths/belief systems they represent a reality. Hence why the Marukhati Dance was so effective.

I agree. That's why every major belief-system/race has one.
syronj

Posted 16 April 2008 - 03:53 PM

Lord Hyamentar, on Apr 15 2008, 05:10 PM, said:
What does "May we forever seek the Seyda Neen" mean?


Maybe it means "May we always seek the chance for a new start". Where did this appear?

As for what atronach means, maybe they took the name from Atropos, one of the three Fates, ". . . the oldest of the Three Fates, and was known as the "inflexible" or "inevitable." It was Atropos who chose the mechanism of death and ended the life of each mortal by cutting their thread with her ' abhorred shears. ' "


Brian S

Posted 16 April 2008 - 04:05 PM

syronj, on Apr 16 2008, 03:53 PM, said:
As for what atronach means, maybe they took the name from Atropos, one of the three Fates,

He also has a thing for earrings and Panama hats.
Lord Hyamentar

Posted 16 April 2008 - 09:11 PM

syronj, on Apr 16 2008, 08:53 PM, said:
Maybe it means "May we always seek the chance for a new start". Where did this appear?


The Hlaalu f'lah, Paulus Hlaalu in the Skeleton Man's Interview says it, along with the expected Hlaalu gibberish.
TOYB

Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:16 AM
Oh great M'Kay, God of all thing not boring, loved by our Nordic kin, what have you to say of the "Merid-nunda" of which your ramblings have gifted to us in The Census of Void Lords (and other places)?
Albides

Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:42 AM

TOYB, on Apr 17 2008, 03:16 PM, said:
Oh great M'Kay, God of all thing not boring, loved by our Nordic kin, what have you to say of the "Merid-nunda" of which your ramblings have gifted to us in The Census of Void Lords (and other places)?

Just an unwritten book as of yet, I think. It's described as a tract. But the meaning of the title might lie in nunda, the Cherokee word for both sun and moon, as elaborated in Shardie's essay on the subject.
Gez

Posted 17 April 2008 - 06:11 AM

Adventurous Putty, on Apr 16 2008, 08:12 PM, said:
their own particular polydox philosophy (one creed out of many)


That's actually the Church of Slag-Blah! Mystery solved!
946000

Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:28 PM
While I hate necromancy, intense curiousity has compelled me to do this, so here I go.

I'd like answers to this:

Adanorcil, on Jun 20 2006, 08:56 AM, said:
Now you got me going.

daguerreotype (good, that's not really made up, but still) as in your "Dwemeri children's rhyme": Is this metaphorical or did the Dwemer practice a primitive form of photograpy?

neonymbiosis: Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, first book.

Malbioge: Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, second book.

and this:

Gez, on Jul 2 2006, 03:54 AM, said:
No idea who wrote this, but if it's you... What does Daedraeka mean? Or Tska Tska Takaesh?

Daedraeka! Mannimarco Daedroth Kvatch Mannimarco Erandur Vangaril Oblivion Tska Tska Takaesh!

If this has already been answered in the thread and I missed it... just slap me.... Thanks.
paw-prints-in-the-mud

Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:37 PM
Searching for Malbioge yields some interesting results. Some guy with a guest account posted the Mythic Dawn Commentaries on a bible forum. (there were no replies)

There is also a several-hundred page list of every word found in oblivion, from aedra to zurin.
argonianerevar

Posted 26 January 2009 - 11:09 PM
Might not be a bad idea to check dictionary.com first to make sure the words you ask about are really made up.

EDIT: Sorry about the awkward timing. Posts were moving really fast. I just saw some questions about regular words that could have been better answered by a literal definition than a guess based on its use in lore (and probably would have made its meaning in lore more clear too).
946000

Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:02 AM
Nevermind.
Lady Nerevar

Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:56 PM
epic ninja repost argh!

the whole word might not be but the individual components are, allowing at least some basic understanding of its meaning. Biosis = a particular mode of life, way of living. Neo = new (duh). Nym = a name invented by or provided for an Internet user to conceal the user's identity or create a new identity. therefore i would assume that neonymbiosis is something like taking a new name and with it a new identity, perhaps in relationship to mantling or to the recycling of souls.
946000

Posted 27 January 2009 - 01:28 PM
That uncertainty about it's meaning made me ask anyway. The words "protonymic" and "neonymic" (especially) made me guess what you guessed. I'm just uncertain about its exact meaning.

The Dwemeri children's rhyme is interesting enough to me. I wanted to know what daguerrotype means in the context in that text. Mainly cause I'm too lazy to do it on my own.


syronj

Posted 27 January 2009 - 01:45 PM

paw-prints-in-the-mud, on Jan 26 2009, 02:37 PM, said:
Searching for Malbioge yields some interesting results. Some guy with a guest account posted the Mythic Dawn Commentaries on a bible forum. (there were no replies)


In Dante's "Inferno", the Malebolge is the Eighth Circle. Apparently a malebolge is an "evil ditch". 

Maybe the word is related, only spelled slightly differently?
MK

Posted 27 January 2009 - 08:25 PM

paw-prints-in-the-mud, on Jan 26 2009, 02:37 PM, said:
Searching for Malbioge yields some interesting results. Some guy with a guest account posted the Mythic Dawn Commentaries on a bible forum. (there were no replies)


Ha.

Please please link please.
MK

Posted 27 January 2009 - 08:27 PM

946000, on Jan 27 2009, 12:28 PM, said:
The Dwemeri children's rhyme is interesting enough to me. I wanted to know what daguerrotype means in the context in that text. Mainly cause I'm too lazy to do it on my own.


No need for laziness. It means what it means.
Nirreln

Posted 27 January 2009 - 08:45 PM
First result from a google search. It's from about one year ago and only half way down the first page.
proweler

Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:15 AM

Nirreln, on Jan 28 2009, 01:45 AM, said:
First result from a google search. It's from about one year ago and only half way down the first page.


Developers
Post here (only) if you're working on Bible+ source code and have related questions. Feature requests DO NOT belong here.


Incidentally, I like the suggestion that subforum description creates. Program your own bible!
1999

Posted 28 January 2009 - 03:40 PM

MK, on Jun 19 2006, 10:58 PM, said:
Ahem. Here we go. Okay, maybe this will only sorta-kinda be in-character. Or not in-character at all. I make the rules here, because I am filthy with power.

Mythopoeic: Could you show me where this was used?

Enantiomorph: I found this in a really, really weird dictionary, which chose to explain it as "a merged dichotomy". In TES, the Enantiomorph is most commonly used to refer to the really, really weird mythic figure of Arctus-who-is-Septim. I'll allow others to play with this until I get back to it, as there's some good takes that certain loremasters have on the Enantiomorph.

Dreamsleeve: Stolen from a neat word Ken made up for Battlespire. The dreamsleeve is a conduit for sending special transmissions. Used by weirdo magicians and Imperial clerks, mainly. Kinda like myspace...only to reach it one must have at least part of their brain constantly meditating, because one aspect of the conduit is that it is able to carry images of concepts not yet "real".


Well as poet, not-Loremaster my reading of 'En anti o morph' was set out thus and sensed via the plodding of multilingual syntax that I first noted in Latin and Ancient Greek. Thus En = 'in' - The French 'en' - as in 'en route' admixed; 'anti' = 'before' or 'against'; 'o' is either 'of' or the declension 'o' that can most often be the plural nominative or vocative cases, singular dative case: 'to or for', ablative case: 'by, with or from' or when preceeded by 'i' as it is here the genetive case which adds 'of' to a word - from the Latin; morph = change, Greek.

Thus it might read 'Chinese format' as - 'starting opposition on the path to change'. The word 'path' here I read in because 'en route' is so familiar and carries a useful sense - call it the silent p. My take on it takes massive liberties, but I link that into the nature of magica and the ancient spirits - which feels very much about the plasticity of the organic in the face of the spiritual - in this case though physical and spiritual violence.



edit: Malbioge - the word itself is reminiscent of Fir-Bolg ... ancient enemies of the Sidhe. Also a vague memory of a book called the Malbogion ... a book of ancient (mythic?) Lore from I know not what source ...

But where I read bio in ES words I think back to the nature of magica and the ancient Spirits of the Void ... and their transformation into the creatures of the mundus. Thing being the fun question: what keeps them separated and 'mundane' as they are? What keeps them from coalescence?
syronj

Posted 28 January 2009 - 05:12 PM
The wikipedia gives this definition: 
1999

Posted 28 January 2009 - 06:01 PM
that's wonderful sironj
Adanorcil

Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:19 AM

1999, on Jan 28 2009, 08:40 PM, said:
Well as poet, not-Loremaster my reading of 'En anti o morph' was set out thus and sensed via the plodding of multilingual syntax that I first noted in Latin and Ancient Greek. Thus En = 'in' - The French 'en' - as in 'en route' admixed; 'anti' = 'before' or 'against'; 'o' is either 'of' or the declension 'o' that can most often be the plural nominative or vocative cases, singular dative case: 'to or for', ablative case: 'by, with or from' or when preceeded by 'i' as it is here the genetive case which adds 'of' to a word - from the Latin; morph = change, Greek.

Thus it might read 'Chinese format' as - 'starting opposition on the path to change'. The word 'path' here I read in because 'en route' is so familiar and carries a useful sense - call it the silent p. My take on it takes massive liberties, but I link that into the nature of magica and the ancient spirits - which feels very much about the plasticity of the organic in the face of the spiritual - in this case though physical and spiritual violence.

I don't mean to sound harsh here, but there is no need to involve twenty seven different declensions of both Ancient Greek and Latin (ignoring the fact that an adverb isn't even declined), when a quick Google search would have sufficed to reveal that enantiomorph stems from the Ancient Greek ἐναντίος (enantios), 'opposite' and μορφή (morphē), 'form'.
1999

Posted 29 January 2009 - 10:36 AM

Adanorcil, on Jan 29 2009, 07:19 AM, said:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but there is no need to involve twenty seven different declensions of both Ancient Greek and Latin (ignoring the fact that an adverb isn't even declined), when a quick Google search would have sufficed to reveal that enantiomorph stems from the Ancient Greek ἐναντίος (enantios), 'opposite' and μορφή (morphē), 'form'.


Thank you for the new link Adanorcil, it seems you and syronj found two links:
yours current link =

Quote
enantiomorph Definition from Wiktionary,

[edit] English
[edit] EtymologyFrom Ancient Greek ἐναντίος (enantios), "'opposite'") + μορφή (morphē), "'form'").
[edit] NounSingular
enantiomorph
Plural
enantiomorphs
enantiomorph (plural enantiomorphs)

Mirror image, form related to another as an object is to its image in a mirror.
Either of a pair of crystals that are mirror images of each other, and are optically active.
(chemistry) A similar molecule or compound; an enantiomer.


And syronj's link has now become:

Quote
Chirality (mathematics)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Enantiomorph)

In geometry, a figure is chiral (and said to have chirality) if it is not identical to its mirror image, or more particularly if it cannot be mapped to its mirror image by rotations and translations alone. A chiral object and its mirror image are said to be enantiomorphs. The word chirality is derived from the Greek χειρ (cheir), the hand, the most familiar chiral object; the word enantiomorph stems from the Greek εναντιος (enantios) 'opposite' and μορφη (morphe) 'form'. A non-chiral figure is called achiral or amphichiral.

The helix (and by extension a spun string, a screw, a propeller, etc.) and Möbius strip are chiral three-dimensional objects. The J, L, S and Z-shaped tetrominoes of the popular video game Tetris also exhibit chirality, but only in a two-dimensional space.

Many other familiar objects exhibit the same chiral symmetry of the human body: gloves, glasses, shoes, legs on a pair of pants, etc. A similar notion of chirality is considered in knot theory, as explained below.

Some chiral three-dimensional objects, such as the helix, can be assigned a right or left handedness, according to the right-hand rule.



~This is why I tend to shy away from wikis. They are fun to contribute to and often useful (why did you not consult one on page 3 for your contributions?) but as a user you never know if someone has altered something vital before anyone else has had time to verify it. But in this case syronj found the mother lode and then someone jumped in and changed everything in the wiki itself. However I find the new application to chiral fascinating too and possibly useful in this forum at some point.



In addition to the earlier technical description for paleonumerology - I would like to think of it as the study of deeply buried numerical structures and relationships.
946000

Posted 29 January 2009 - 02:31 PM

Adanorcil, on Jan 29 2009, 06:19 AM, said:
I don't mean to sound harsh here, but there is no need to involve twenty seven different declensions of both Ancient Greek and Latin (ignoring the fact that an adverb isn't even declined), when a quick Google search would have sufficed to reveal that enantiomorph stems from the Ancient Greek ἐναντίος (enantios), 'opposite' and μορφή (morphē), 'form'.


Indeed...

I know I necromanced the hell outta this thread, but I did that because I'm having a hard time defining some of those words, mainly Malbioge and neonymbiosis (though I'm confident I know neonymbiosis now). I did a good bit of searching and still couldn't find an exact definition of Malbioge.

edit: Lil' grammar clarification. Meant an exact definition of Malbioge, not neonymbiosis....
MK

Posted 29 January 2009 - 03:21 PM

946000, on Jan 29 2009, 01:31 PM, said:
Indeed...

I know I necromanced the hell outta this thread, but I did that because I'm having a hard time defining some of those words, mainly Malbioge and neonymbiosis (though I'm confident I know neonymbiosis now). I did a good bit of searching and still couldn't find an exact definition.


Neonymbiosis.

And it's our fault FOR EATING TOO MUCH TURTLE SOUP.

If I die due to the immortal jellyfish invasion, one of YOU must bioengineer the return of green sea turtles. But only if they remain eternally young. Young green sea turtles are still omnivores, and would be natural predators for the immortal jellyfish. Adult sea green turtles turn into herbivores. So your new version can't mature. Also, you have to bioengineer them, because they're all gone.

"I HOPE YOU LIKED YOUR SOUP, [censored]TARTS, NOW FACE THE JESUSFISH."

It'll be like that totally-[censored] movie, "Underworld", only immortal jellyfish versus eternally-young green sea turtles.

...and deep underwater.

...with no hotties.

...and more convincing delivery.
Dumbkid

Posted 29 January 2009 - 03:30 PM
Has anyone worked out the implications of the "The Aurbis is an Immortal, Aesexually Reproducing Jellyfish" theory?

Initially it seems like it could be used to explain much of the underlying metaprinciples of aurbic reality.

And come on, immortal jellyfish!
Aldanaril

Posted 29 January 2009 - 03:33 PM
That post was... quite scary, and congrats for making my wife ROFL.
TOYB

Posted 29 January 2009 - 03:51 PM

syronj

Posted 29 January 2009 - 04:11 PM
Okay, trying for pedantry here, but maybe neonymbiosis means then the process of becoming immortal through the power of names. Something like: if you know your True Name/New Name, you can become renewed.

Bows to the sensei before MK disappears again

Edit: MK's idea below of "torturing for being immortal" reminds me of the fate of Mankar Camoran's followers in "Paradise". Probably I'm reading too much into it, though.
MK

Posted 29 January 2009 - 04:28 PM
Okay, so this, like, totally has me going.

1) It pisses me off that something else achieved immortality first. [censored] that. And jellyfish of all things. C'mon. The silliness is laughing in our collective human faces.

2) It has driven me to brilliance: immortal jellyfish gasoline. Imagine. You fill your car, right? And then when the gas runs out? It becomes gasoline again!!11!!!!

So, between revenge and saving the world, I've hit 5:

5) We bioengineer the immortal jellyfish to only partly contribute its "magical being" into immortal gas, see. The rest of the immortal jellyfish is, like, tortured for being [censored] immortal! A perpetual motion machine that can tell Saudi Arabia to screw itself while also keeping Nature where it belongs: SUBSERVIENT.

Screw the eternally-young green sea turtles. NO ONE'S GOING IMMORTAL ON OUR DIME EXCEPT US, OCEAN.
1999

Posted 29 January 2009 - 05:38 PM
Neonymbiosis: Nym is the nickname a boy who lived down the riod from me in the 60s. His dad, who was a lawyer, gave it to him, so it must be very scary.

Neo - new/renewal
Nym a knickname - a name - what is in a name? Identity?
biosis - as in symbiosis = is living together amicably or in a mutually useful way, but here it is nymbiosis - someone said something earlier - will edit it in.

So the word requiring definition is nym ...

Nym - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nym may refer to: ... an English affix; Nym server, a pseudonym server which provides untraceable email addresses; Nym, an alien character in Star Wars; The Nym, a race of artificial humanoid sentient plants from the Age of Legends in The Wheel of Time fantasy book series; Nym, a minor figure in Shakespeare's play The Merry Wives of Windsor; Nym, a character from the Forgotten Realms setting of Dungeons & Dragons; Nym, a Corporal in Shakespeare's play Henry V; Nim, short for Nimrod, a reptile in the television series Surface

Well it looks like affix or untraceable e-mail addresses. Patronym - A patronym or patronymic, is a component of a personal name based on the name of one's father, grandfather or an even earlier male ancestor. A component of a name based on the name of one's mother or a female ancestor is a matronym. Each is a means of conveying lineage. During singular naming there was a considerable time of loose patronomization before they became a formal part of a person's name in the 1700s.




Well I like dumbkid's stuff on this one -

Quote
"The Aurbis is an Immortal, Aesexually Reproducing Jellyfish" theory?
Now that's fun! And why not seeing as it goes somewhere?

If you can have a Gaia - why not an entire 'cosmos' - the Aurbis. Especially where there is something like magica? But apply the Pelinal mulipartite cloud being thing to it. So Pelinal might then be an example of what happens when the cloud gathers or is channelled into a concentrated form. And looking at the way that the Ancient Spirit's infused with magica in the Dawntime changes and split into new beings ... neonymbiosis has that feel to it.



Quote
QUOTE(Adventurous Putty @ Apr 16 2008, 01:52 PM)  
I think I'm asking for a definition of "polydoxes," too. Here's some speculation on my (admittedly lacking) part:

"Polydox" seems to be interchangeable with "Tower" -- perhaps meaning "a symbol of multiple paradoxes", or something along those lines. After all, symbols hold many meanings, and in a world like TES where those symbolic meanings are made real through magic, that's powerful. Therefore, the most powerful symbols are those that stand for many things -- polydoxes -- and the Towers were therefore polydoxes, since they could stand for/represent many things.

Or not. That's kind of a weak answer, but oh well.


Poly means many while dox means belief or opinion.

Cosminach is a reconstruction or imitation of the cosmos, merging the words cosmos and atronach or golem, which is an imitation.

or


QUOTE(proweler @ Jun 26 2006, 01:37 PM)  
Cosminach, Nu-Mantia Intercept
Poetronach, Xal-Gosleigh
Atronach
Cosminachs absorb Magicka from the cosmos, space, Oblivion
Poetronachs absorb Magicka from poetry, writings.
Atronachs absorb Magicka from,...from what exactly?

Well this one could be made easier - The Lee Cosmin Band - 1970s North London based band that toured Britain for several years often co-starring atlocal pubs with the Clash et al, before securing a record deal with the Polydor Record Company. Cosminach? Obviously this is the manner in which the band drew energy from the audience in response to the rockin performances. .. and the basis for pulling all those birds in the audience
Lady Nerevar

Posted 29 January 2009 - 07:59 PM
MK: Finding Nemo. On crack.
I love this, for the sheer amount of big words. maybe im just high on cheap M&Ms but i could totally make an aligory for life on nirn outa this [censored].

Quote
small colonies stolonal, monosiphonic (simple stem), larger ones erect, irregularly branched and increasing in diameter from base to apex, polysiphonic (compound stem); branches basally adnate to hydrocaulus or other branches, then curving away at an acute angle and becoming free; hydrocaulus and hydrocladia covered by a firm bi-layered perisarc, mostly encrusted with detritus and algae, terminating below hydranth base; hydranths terminal, naked, elongated, fusiform, with 12–38 filiform tentacles scattered over distal three quarters of column, proximal ones shorter than distal; hypostome elongated conical; medusa buds arising mostly one by one from short pedicels below hydranths, pear shaped, enclosed in perisarc.


1999: youre swimming in circles trying to redefine the definite.

[edit] yep, it was the candy.
MK

Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:12 PM
"small colonies stolonal, monosiphonic (simple stem), larger ones erect, irregularly branched and increasing in diameter from base to apex, polysiphonic (compound stem); branches basally adnate to hydrocaulus or other branches, then curving away at an acute angle and becoming free; hydrocaulus and hydrocladia covered by a firm bi-layered perisarc, mostly encrusted with detritus and algae, terminating below hydranth base; hydranths terminal, naked, elongated, fusiform, with 12–38 filiform tentacles scattered over distal three quarters of column, proximal ones shorter than distal; hypostome elongated conical; medusa buds arising mostly one by one from short pedicels below hydranths, pear shaped, enclosed in perisarc."

YESSSSFACEOFGOD.

Also, after awhile of torturing the hubris-ridden immortal cephalopods IN OUR CAMAROS we'd offer them a choice for some of them to be free, as long as they tell us their filthy secret.

"Work for us or work with us," we will say.

And give them vocoders to answer, but only in English, with the implied understanding that refusing to answer in English is the equivalent of submitting willfully to being subjects of our TORTURE FOREVER-GAS FREE ENERGY INITIATIVE.

This can happen; we have a black President now. [censored] you, Water Jesuses.
Lady Nerevar

Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:24 PM
More importantly, WWSSD? (What Would Sammy the Salmon Do?)

Sersly, 4 packs of M&Ms for $5 at CVS. what kind of deal is that?

On a on-topic subject, i view the whole neonymbiosis thing kinda like forum usernames. if i get baned from this one, or simply decide to abandon it, i get another one. It is still me, but a separate identity. would you know the difference? you certainly havent so far.
Dumbkid

Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:43 PM
Neonymbiosis is an obvious one. If you don't get it you're trying to hard.

Neo - New.
Nym - Name, moniker, etc (search TIL for "protonym"). Remember that in a magical setting a name isn't inert, it has a power association with the thing named.
Biosis - life, living, etc.

There are different ways you can link those terms together, but the meaning is basically the same any way you do it. And that meaning fits the context perfectly:

"Enter as Lord Dagon has written: come slow and bring four keys. Know that then you are royalty, a new breed of destroyer, whose garden shall flood with flowers known and unknown, as it was in the mythic dawn. Thus shall you return your first primal wail and yet come out different. It shall this time be neonymbiosis, master akin to Master, whose Mother is miasma."

Or if it isn't obvious from that, think about a neophyte advancing into the higher orders of a religious or mystic group, or think of the symbolism of baptism in Christianity (not intending to start a discussion of religion here, it's an example). Now consider what this means in a world where myth is fact.
1999

Posted 30 January 2009 - 12:43 PM

Dumbkid, on Jan 29 2009, 07:43 PM, said:
Neonymbiosis is an obvious one. If you don't get it you're trying to hard.

Neo - New.
Nym - Name, moniker, etc (search TIL for "protonym"). Remember that in a magical setting a name isn't inert, it has a power association with the thing named.
Biosis - life, living, etc.

There are different ways you can link those terms together, but the meaning is basically the same any way you do it. And that meaning fits the context perfectly:

"Enter as Lord Dagon has written: come slow and bring four keys. Know that then you are royalty, a new breed of destroyer, whose garden shall flood with flowers known and unknown, as it was in the mythic dawn. Thus shall you return your first primal wail and yet come out different. It shall this time be neonymbiosis, master akin to Master, whose Mother is miasma."

Or if it isn't obvious from that, think about a neophyte advancing into the higher orders of a religious or mystic group, or think of the symbolism of baptism in Christianity (not intending to start a discussion of religion here, it's an example). Now consider what this means in a world where myth is fact.


Yes - that fits with the idea that the 'true' name of a thing has power over it. Though in this case hard to know which comes first, the name or the change.


Mytheopeic - see Robert Holdstock's 'Mythago Wood' - the first in a series of books where myths gain substance

Quote
Brian S
Since no one has yet asked as best I can tell in my skimmage, what is abnegaurbic anyways? (Seen in Nu-Mantia Issue 8: Like all of the polydox constructs of the earliest Aldmer-- whatever their abnegaurbic creed-- White-Gold Tower is a conduit of creatia)

I suppose that this might mean creed from the non-existance of Aurbis - which, having given due significance to various issues, might boil down to the Mundus and thus: Earthly Creed
Adventurous Putty

Posted 30 January 2009 - 03:39 PM
Coming into this conversation, we actually already had definitions for protonymics and neonymics, which may help with neonymbiosis.

The Hero of Battlespire gets a rather in-depth explanation while traveling through the Battlespire and Dagon's pocket realms, which can be found here; they are elaborated on in a journal that can be found here. The Hero of Battlespire then banishes Dagon using the protonymic and neonymic, as can be read here.

So, knowing all this, I'm gonna have to say that neonymbiosis is just the process by which one assumes a new "Name" that binds them to a realm, disconnecting them from the normal cycle of life and death in the Dreamsleeve. The Daedra do this naturally, as it is in their nature; the ability for mortals to do this was a central part of Mankar Camoran's theology in creating the Paradise.



Can someone please define Malbioge? It's killing me too.
Dumbkid

Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:42 PM

Adventurous Putty, on Jan 30 2009, 02:39 PM, said:
Coming into this conversation, we actually already had definitions for protonymics and neonymics, which may help with neonymbiosis.

The Hero of Battlespire gets a rather in-depth explanation while traveling through the Battlespire and Dagon's pocket realms, which can be found here; they are elaborated on in a journal that can be found here. The Hero of Battlespire then banishes Dagon using the protonymic and neonymic, as can be read here.

So, knowing all this, I'm gonna have to say that neonymbiosis is just the process by which one assumes a new "Name" that binds them to a realm, disconnecting them from the normal cycle of life and death in the Dreamsleeve. The Daedra do this naturally, as it is in their nature; the ability for mortals to do this was a central part of Mankar Camoran's theology in creating the Paradise.



Can someone please define Malbioge? It's killing me too.


Neonymbiosis is one's new nature following the recreation of the world - one of the perks of helping to shape reality. On the surface Camoran is promising a reward to his followers, on a deeper level he's talking about something he can never really understand (but the player can).

By the way, that definition is (for the most part) consistent with the one provided by Adventurous Putty. What I said was more of a clarification than a critique. The tricky thing is that Camoran's like a prophet who misinterprets his own vision.

As for Malbioge, does no one read these words in context?

Answers are liberations, where the slaves of Malbioge that came to know Numantia cast down their jailer king, Maztiak, which the Xarxes Mysterium calls the Arkayn. Maztiak, whose carcass was dragged through the streets by his own bone-walkers and whose flesh was opened on rocks thereon and those angels who loved him no longer did drink from his honeyed ichors screaming "Let all know free will and do as they will!"

The myth being referenced is obvious, though it's viewed through a different perspective, and it fits with the tone of the Commentaries perfectly. Not hard to figure out.
paw-prints-in-the-mud

Posted 30 January 2009 - 05:38 PM
Seeing as someone recognized the demonic meaning of a similar word, it certainly makes more sense than 'Dreugh.'
Adventurous Putty

Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:08 PM

Quote
As for Malbioge, does no one read these words in context?

Answers are liberations, where the slaves of Malbioge that came to know Numantia cast down their jailer king, Maztiak, which the Xarxes Mysterium calls the Arkayn. Maztiak, whose carcass was dragged through the streets by his own bone-walkers and whose flesh was opened on rocks thereon and those angels who loved him no longer did drink from his honeyed ichors screaming "Let all know free will and do as they will!"

The myth being referenced is obvious, though it's viewed through a different perspective, and it fits with the tone of the Commentaries perfectly. Not hard to figure out.


Well, having perused the Monomyth casually while looking for the allegory, I've come up empty-handed -- a sign of my own intellectual deficiency, no doubt, and not your mastery of the Lore. So would you mind bestowing the knowledge of what myth, precisely, that is to those of us with lesser minds?
Dumbkid

Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:25 PM

Adventurous Putty, on Jan 31 2009, 09:08 PM, said:
Well, having perused the Monomyth casually while looking for the allegory, I've come up empty-handed -- a sign of my own intellectual deficiency, no doubt, and not your mastery of the Lore. So would you mind bestowing the knowledge of what myth, precisely, that is to those of us with lesser minds?


Sarcasm can be a bitter dish, I'll spit out my birds.

My preference in posting is to give hints rather than answers. This is partially because I don't have answers (any more than anyone else, sans developers, does). I also want to proffer my ideas in a way the compells people to read (or reread) the sources - which is why I was emphasizing context, for instance. I don't want someone to read my (or anyone elses) posts and say "ah, that must be it." I want them to read a post and say "that might be something, let me check." So I'm trying to set it up so that anyone who pays attention to me (which may be no one), will have to look it up.

And the Monomyth was the right place to go (although there are other sources as well). I thought a mythical figure being dragged to his death corresponded well to:

"Auriel could not save Altmora, the Elder Wood, and it was lost to Men. They were chased south and east to Old Ehlnofey, and Lorkhan was close behind. He shattered that land into many. Finally Trinimac, Auriel's greatest knight, knocked Lorkhan down in front of his army and reached in with more than hands to take his Heart. He was undone. The Men dragged Lorkhan's body away and swore blood vengeance on the heirs of Auriel for all time."
946000

Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:30 PM
I wonder where the hell MK got those words from. I understand why he used them, but I find words like "Lyg" and "Maztiak" extremely interesting.
syronj

Posted 31 January 2009 - 11:00 PM

946000, on Jan 31 2009, 09:30 PM, said:
I wonder where the hell MK got those words from. I understand why he used them, but I find words like "Lyg" and "Maztiak" extremely interesting.


Though the Celtic god Lugh is pronounced differently, I wonder if the name is related:



"Maztiak" could almost be the word "Maztica" switched around slightly.
Maztica was apparently a campaign in the Forgotten Realms series. From the wikipedia:

"West from Faerűn, across the Sea of Swords, the Trackless Sea, and 'Tayola' the Eastern Ocean, Maztica is a land of jungles and (to the Faerűnians) mystery."

On a side note, I remember MK calls the series the "Forgettable Realms". I liked the CRPG series Baldur's Gate myself, but that's unimportant.
WillPF363

Posted 01 February 2009 - 11:07 PM
Having gone through this thread, I realize why I have not posted here since before Oblivion came out. This the most confusing forum I have ever been a part of, every time I think I know something, I get hit with a new level of confusion.


But it was nice to travel down memory lane.
Marn

Posted 02 February 2009 - 11:44 PM

1999, on Jan 29 2009, 08:40 AM, said:
edit: Malbioge - the word itself is reminiscent of Fir-Bolg ... ancient enemies of the Sidhe. Also a vague memory of a book called the Malbogion ... a book of ancient (mythic?) Lore from I know not what source ...

The Mabinogion is THE collection of Welsh folk tales: Merlin, Arthur, Tristan and Iseult, etc...

I can see the relevance of the Fir Bolg to that.

And considering somebody pointed out Lyg/Lugh... Hmm...
1999

Posted 04 February 2009 - 07:03 AM

Marn, on Feb 2 2009, 10:44 PM, said:
The Mabinogion is THE collection of Welsh folk tales: Merlin, Arthur, Tristan and Iseult, etc...

I can see the relevance of the Fir Bolg to that.

And considering somebody pointed out Lyg/Lugh... Hmm...


Right on there Marn - I was thinking of that - putting the two together but I couldn't quite put my finger on it - but I think there's another 'transposition' of the word out there too.

Lyg though has a Norse or Anglo Saxon feel to it. That might make it the view of another mythos re Lugh - but more likely something other.
The Dude

Posted 05 February 2009 - 12:40 PM

1999, on Feb 4 2009, 05:03 AM, said:
Right on there Marn - I was thinking of that - putting the two together but I couldn't quite put my finger on it - but I think there's another 'transposition' of the word out there too.

Lyg though has a Norse or Anglo Saxon feel to it. That might make it the view of another mythos re Lugh - but more likely something other.


There are a few similarities (too many to be coincidence) between this particular mythos and TES. LOL. Lugh does sound like Lyg. It also sounds like Reyman Ebon Arm... "Lugh Strong Hand". (that was a joke, btw).

Lugh was also said to have fathered Cúchulainn. Cúchulainn sounds like Emperor Cuhlecain (emperor zero).

Wow. This thread is getting pretty long, isn't it? I wonder if it'll top 200 before they close it. Happens from time to time.
Gez

Posted 05 February 2009 - 03:03 PM

The Dude, on Feb 5 2009, 05:40 PM, said:
There are a few similarities (too many to be coincidence) between this particular mythos and TES. LOL. Lugh does sound like Lyg. It also sounds like Reyman Ebon Arm... "Lugh Strong Hand". (that was a joke, btw).

Lugh was also said to have fathered Cúchulainn. Cúchulainn sounds like Emperor Cuhlecain (emperor zero).

Wow. This thread is getting pretty long, isn't it? I wonder if it'll top 200 before they close it. Happens from time to time.

Finding morpheme similarities is all fine and dandy, but they have to really be justified by something. It's not enough to say "Cuhlecain sounds kinda like Cuchulain, so it is definitely an allusion to it", you have to show why there is that allusion, what does it say about Cuhlecain, how can both characters be compared and likened?

It's like that "Blessings of Mystara upon you" thing beggars say sometimes in Oblivion. "Mystara is an old D&D setting, so it is that!" Well, no. A setting, old or not, D&D or not, is not a deity. Saying this "Mystara" is a D&D allusion is meaningless because it just doesn't make sense. There's no signification to be found in relating them together.

Likewise here. How could Lyg (very clearly a city or country) be meaningfully likened to Lugh?

You have to admit that the phonic similarities might just be a coincidence, or have been chosen merely because it sounded cool, no matter how many there are, rather than for any deeper reason.
The Dude

Posted 05 February 2009 - 03:24 PM

Gez, on Feb 5 2009, 01:03 PM, said:
Finding morpheme similarities is all fine and dandy, but they have to really be justified by something.


For the record, I didn't say it was an allusion to it. I was implying the names were inspired by it.
Dumbkid

Posted 05 February 2009 - 08:54 PM
Lorikh, while clearly not a Dwemer name, simply does not exist, and in fact "Lorikh" was a name commonly used, incorrectly, for Dunmer men in Gor Felim's plays. The Argonian versions of the story usually take place on Vvardenfell, usually in the Telvanni city of Sadrith Mora. Of course the so-called "scholars" of Temple Zero will probably claim this story has something to do with "Lorkhan" simply because the town starts with the letter L.


paw-prints-in-the-mud

Posted 05 February 2009 - 10:19 PM
I was desperately trying to think of some joke about that book, seeing as Lyg is Lorkhan.
Harke the Apostle

Posted 05 March 2009 - 03:01 PM
 

What exactly does "egg-layered" mean?

Quote
Alike the egg-layered universe is this morbid possession of three-distant coverage, soul-wrecked and alive, like my name is alive. In this cloister you have discovered one walking path, hilled like a sword but more coarsened. So edged it is that it has to be whispered to keep the tongue from bleeding, where its signs evacuate their former meanings, like empires that tarry too long.


Source: The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec: Sermon Twenty

Is it egg-like in the sence that Tamriel is the yoke, The Void is the white, and the eggshell is Aetherius?
TOYB

Posted 05 March 2009 - 03:20 PM

Harke the Apostle, on Mar 6 2009, 08:01 AM, said:
 

What exactly does "egg-layered" mean?



Source: The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec: Sermon Twenty

Is it egg-like in the sence that Tamriel is the yoke, The Void is the white, and the eggshell is Aetherius?


The Void and Oblivion aren't the same thing, the Void is 'outside' of Aetherius. Nirn-Oblivion-Aetherius-Void.
Gez

Posted 05 March 2009 - 05:57 PM

Harke the Apostle, on Mar 5 2009, 08:01 PM, said:
Is it egg-like in the sence that Tamriel is the yoke, The Void is the white, and the eggshell is Aetherius?

Nirn is the yolk, Oblivion the white, Aetherius the shell, and the Void is everything that isn't part of the egg.
Harke the Apostle

Posted 05 March 2009 - 07:12 PM

Gez, on Mar 5 2009, 05:57 PM, said:
Nirn is the yolk, Oblivion the white, Aetherius the shell, and the Void is everything that isn't part of the egg.


Aaargh yoke, joke and yolk!
Dumbkid

Posted 05 March 2009 - 11:36 PM
Regarding "egg-layered," be sure to read about the world egg concept in (earth) mythology, and then add matryoshka dolls.
Zoso

Posted 05 March 2009 - 11:40 PM
Not nearly capable of participating meaningfully in this fascinating (if confusing) discussion, allow me to at least point out that it seems our Bethesda friends have managed to out-do Tolkien in terms of complexity. The Silmarillion (god love it) has nothing on this.

Don't know if this matters all that much, but mythopoeia is when a modern writer invents a mythology.

Anyway, please continue. This is all very interesting.
TOYB

Posted 05 March 2009 - 11:49 PM

Harke the Apostle, on Mar 6 2009, 12:12 PM, said:
Aaargh yoke, joke and yolk!


And if you really want to be picky, Mundus is the yolk. Nirn's just one planet, even though it is the central plane(t) of said dimension.