UESPWiki:Archive/CP New Project

I'm thinking of making something called the Lore Redesign Project or LRP. Its purpose would be to go through the Lore namespace and get rid of as much game specific and unverifiable material as possible, while at the same time adding information to stubs that should stay in Lore. Hopefully there are enough people that would be interested in this so that things like Lore:Khulari don't stay and fester for any longer and well placed stubs like this don't remain stubs for years because no-one is willing to actually go through this namespace. Sorry if I come off as a little "overenthusiastic" but I think it looks bad if things like the first example stay in lore at all and things like the second turn into "perma-stubs". So what are everyone's thoughts on this?--  Ghurhak gro-Demril        20:55, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
:I know rpeh has a...very long acronym for a Lore redesign of some sort. I can't find the dang thing right now...I'll keep looking for you though.--             22:56, 5 October 2010 (UTC) 
::You mean ? The problem with that is it's a private project (see page for details).--  Ghurhak gro-Demril        23:02, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Just as I found it I came across that note.--             23:03, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

::::This is a good example of why making projects easier to create isn't the best idea. Yes, there's a lot of work that needs to be done on our Lore pages, which is why I created that page, but there are several reasons why I didn't make it into a site project.

::::If there are editors willing to work on Lore articles, where are they? Take my edits out of the last 500 changes, remove the vandalism and reversions, remove simple spelling fixes and additional links... and you're left with almost nothing. With respect, it's not a great sign when the person proposing a new project has only one Lore edit in the last month, and that's proposing a page for deletion.

::::Lorespace needs a different style of editing to pretty much every other namespace. Transclusions abound, and unless you're very familiar with them it's easy to make mistakes, such as proposing the whole  page for deletion.

::::In a gamespace page, it's quite difficult to create a permastub unless you really try. Every NPC, place and item has a slew of stats that at least provide a starting point. Many pages in Lorespace are stubs because there really isn't anything to say about them! Sometimes it's better to have a redlink, but sometimes a stub makes sense instead. Places like Dune, for instance, are marked on the Map of Tamriel so will probably be searched for. Incidentally, the only reference to Dune I can find is in here, so it's not likely to be a huge article any time in the near future.

::::Lastly, this is exactly the wrong way to go about it. When Nephele created the Places Project, she had a full list of objectives and methods ready to roll. Yes it might have ended up in the mud, but it still achieved a huge amount - compare any pre-OPRP version of the page to the current one (and remember that the neat maps were part of the project too - they were just CS exports before then). The OBNPCRP was also discussed for a long time before it started, both on IRC and the talk page. By the time RoBoT added the notices to each page, there was a clear idea of what needed to be done, even though it's changed slightly over time. With Lore, there's no easy way for one project to fix everything. Many pages are missing for a start (which is why I've asked AMM to start making a list of everybody that ever gets mentioned in the books - one big task off my list!). Sometimes what we need is a Lore version of a gamespace page (the Ashlander tribe pages, for instance). Sometimes it's a cross-game summary combined with extra Lore (the Guilds). Sometimes it's pure Lore. Sometimes there's out-of-game Lore. Sometimes it's a matter of writing down the facts and sometimes there's a lot of research to do in order to force things to match up (the  page springs to mind).

::::So if you want to create a project, go ahead. But I doubt you'll get many useful helpers until you're much clearer about what exactly it is you're trying to achieve. rpeh  09:19, 8 October 2010 (UTC) 

:::::Some reasons I only have one Lore edit in the last month: 1. while I have been working on something lore related (Please note in case you see this before I fix the link that I need to check the exact name - I think I must have made a typo when I created the page.) it hasn't been the kind of thing that would take a lot of editing in the namespace. 2. I've been working on some fairly in-depth investigations for the OBNPCRP, which has meant that up until now I haven't had much time to work on Lore and 3. I didn't see anyone else editing it very often and I didn't want to tackle a huge namespace on my own.  

:::::Perma-stubs like the Dune page: If there isn't anything more to say about it at this point why is it a stub? I thought that tag only applied to articles that need more information. 

:::::Proposing the whole  page for deletion: Sorry about that. I didn't realize that it was done that way or I would have put      tags around the prod notice. 

:::::Many different kinds of editing to be done: While I'm not so familiar with all of the types of editing you mentioned above I'll learn through trial and error (Using a sandbox for each article of course so that I don't mess up anything in the actual namespace). 

:::::"But I doubt you'll get many useful helpers until you're much clearer about what exactly it is you're trying to achieve": More people are likely to be willing to help once they see that they're not the only ones editing Lore. In the meantime there are at least two people other than me that are willing to edit Lore: You and AMM. It'll probably help to actually let people know that the lack of edits to the Lore namespace isn't because it's done, too. 

:::::Anyway those are my thoughts. What everyone else thinks remains to be seen.--  Ghurhak gro-Demril        18:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::The question is how are we going to go about fixing the lore pages. Rpeh made a whole template that could be updated for the OBNPCRP, with clear instructions on what needed to be done for an NPC's page to be considered complete. The lore pages work so much differently: there aren't many big pages that can be worked on by multiple users, mostly because the available info for each lore page is varied. You would need a clear definition of what completes a lore page. Also, most projects just involve simple editing to a page, but lore requires referencing tags, which could be difficult for some users to use (even I am unexperienced regarding adding in-game and unofficial references). Another point with which I agree with Rpeh is that finding dedicated and continued interest in the project may be difficult. The lore pages for the most part require on site research and investigation, and rarely involves in-game data. I wouldn't mind helping out in a project like this, but there it's more of an idea then a project right now. -- Jplatinum16 19:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

::::::: So far, I've been picking the articles where we have very little information and there's more to be said. I've been avoiding the articles related to Oblivion deliberately, because I think that's something to which other people can add from their current knowledge.
::::::: The only thing that is absolutely necessary is that all information gets a reference. For those who don't know how to do it, I created this last month as a very brief guide. If you're editing a page and come across a statement that you can't reference, add a   tag.
::::::: If somebody wants to formalise this, then copy the list from my sandbox, and turn it into something that people can cross off as they check/improve. There's no easy, formulaic way to fix all these articles at once. rpeh  23:31, 10 October 2010 (UTC) 
::::::::Okay since this is going to be pretty much impossible to do all at once... I'm going to suggest that for now we section it off so... I hereby propose the LCRP or Lore Creatures Redesign Project. Its purpose will be to go through the Bestiary pages and create pages for any creatures that have enough that can be said about them to warrant such. Then once that's done we can move on to other sections.--  Ghurhak gro-Demril        02:23, 12 October 2010 (UTC)