UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Template:Spoiler

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:This page has been deleted because we no longer user warnings to alert people about spoilers. --Aristeo | Talk 00:48, 14 November 2006 (EST)

There has been somewhat of a general agreement, some of which can be expressed on the community portal under the section No Spoiler Warnings, that we should not have spoiler warnings on the site. Because I want to be sure that consensus is to have no more spoiler warnings, I am not going to place this template in proposed deletion, but instead I will reinforce the consensus with this deletion review. --Aristeo 15:51, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Delete: the template has no useful purpose based on the concensus of the community.--Hoggwild5 10:59, 4 November 2006 (EST)



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:''(The following discussion about deletion of this template was originally on the template's talk page.  It has been moved here to preserve and consolidate the discussion)''

Hmmm... just noticed this template, while doing follow up to a conversation that just popped up on a page with a significant spoiler: .  In looking through the site, people seem to have a lot of opinions on spoilers, but I can't find much in the way of real recommendations on what to do with them.  Since this seems like the most appropriate place to discuss the where/how/why of spoilers, I thought I'd start a discussion page here.

First: try to figure out what has been said on the topic so far.  In a wiki-wide search, I found several relevant threads that have popped up. I've tried to semi-sort by topic.

On the logistics of how to hide spoilers:
: setting up a show/hide feature at...


questions on how to hide spoiler info, including a wikipedia quote on the topic

today's debate: how to hide spoilers, where should spoilers go

Opinions on where to have spoilers:

Several requests to keep spoilers to a minimum, and in particular to keep spoilers out of quest table of contents and quick walkthroughs.
 a few opinions here:
Quest pages are fundamentally spoiler pages, but basic gameplay and hints are not.  
A request to actually have to click on a quest page before any spoiler info is shown

Two requests for no casual/thoughtless spoilers, quest info only on quest pages.

Opinions on what is a spoiler:

A list of place-page topics that could be considered spoilerish

A snippet that revealing a character dies is considered spoilerish
: questions about how much of oblivion-related developments in Kvatch should be on a Tamriel page (presumably... content was deleted)
: questions about what should be considered a spoiler; a request for no spoilers on general info pages like 


Second, some random questions that I have:
Does the show/hide feature work?
If so, why isn't it incorporated in the template?
Or, are two templates needed (one to hide just a line of text; another to just warn the entire page is spoilerish)?
Should there be a general policy on spoilers?
Should spoilers be allowed on any pages?
Or, should spoilers be limited to, for example quest pages, and anywhere else the info comes up should just link to the relevant quest page?
What is a spoiler?
As stated in one of the above links, the entire wiki can be considered a spoiler.  Is it possible to come up with a definition acceptable to most people who use this wiki?
Is there some way to provide context for spoilers?
As I tried to explain at , I think a random spoiler warning that pops up unexpectedly should be accompanied by some idea of the quest/topic so readers know whether they want to keep reading.  I know it's not how spoiler warnings tend to be done, but I think it would be useful to work towards that type of system.

"This forum is open for discussion..."--Nephele 19:01, 20 July 2006 (EDT)


:The idea of hiding a single line of text in a page doesn't really work with the wiki atmosphere in my opinion. There are many time when a user can make a valid contribution to a page without any specific domain knowledge. Such as spelling, grammar, and vandalism fixes (I know i need someone to clean up after my terrible use of the English language). No matter how good a template is at hiding spoiler information, when you edit the page you wind up seeing the spoiler. Truthfully the existing warning of "hey spoiler follows" was working fine for me when I was browsing the page for information. But the moment I started to contribute to the site, I started stumbling into spoiler information that I hadn't experience in game yet (despite a having a character with 120 hours invested). It just happens. I'm not really upset about it, I did it to myself.  Nonetheless I think it is hard to edit a page with a spoiler on it without actually reading the spoiler (granted for big pages you could edit a section, but then you can't edit a section containing a spoiler). 

:As such I would suggest a system where spoilers are referenced and linked to is better. People can just stay away from editing spoiler pages. I think this is even true for quests.

:There are times when you need help on a step of the quests and in order to get that help wind up having the end spelled out for you. You can't really get that mad about it, cuss again you did it to yourself and a quest walkthough is gonna obviously have spoilers (but you wouldn't expect a mid level Thieves quest to spoil the identity of th gray fox for instance).

:Of course it is very easy to take this too far. For example if an NPC moves to another town as a result of a quest. Linking to them in  table of NPCs for that town could be considered a spoiler. But at that point it seems you are being to protective (although arguably how hard is it to link to a page that has the NPCs that "move to" that town in a table).

:All in all I don't think spoilers are a big deal and you'd have to expect some, but I would expect to keep the really big ones behind some sort of buffer. i.e. the identity of the Gray Fox, or the fact that you become the arch mage and head of the mages guild (saw this in a complaint about a mid-level theif's guild quest where you steel from the arch mage).

:My two cents (sorry but I don't have the ability to not ramble and I don't spell check my post to talk pages)-- Lorenz03Tx 07-21-06

:: A spoiler is piece of information revealing details about a plot event that may reduce one's enjoyment of the story. Of course, spoilers are to be expected in walkthroughs, but they should be minimal as possible. People who haven't completed a quest will look to a walkthrough for help, and a walkthrough in nature has many spoilers. The editors should not be sloppy with the spoilers, but should also not fail to include necessary information. Readers who seek walkthroughs have obviously not completed a quest, and are sensitive to spoilers. Walkthroughs tend to be spoiler prone. 

:: Daveh's solution was incorporate a "Quick Walkthough" with our regular, paragraphic ones. Quick walkthroughs are small lists that simply outline the major steps in completing a quest. That way, those who did not want the quest spoiled for them did not have to read the whole thing, and those who were too desperate to care or who weren't satisfied with the quick walkthrough could move onto the detailed walkthrough. From the input from the Elder Scrolls community, this has worked greatly.

:: One of the most talked about alternatives to marking spoileric sections is to hide the revealing text with a hide/show table or by whiting it out. The problem with these two alternatives is that hiding text in this manner is called censorship, and we'll eventually have a wiki that looks like a communist newspaper. We don't need a device that hides a spoiler from someone, we need a message that warns a reader that a spoiler is coming. That's why I want to keep our spoiler template, and use that to warn readers about spoilers. A reader can then skip that section and continue to the next. --Aristeo 18:31, 24 July 2006 (EDT)