UESPWiki:Community Portal/Archive 25

Conversation Layout?

Okay, as the OBNPCRP evolves, it becomes more and more “normal” to add conversations between NPCs. Only problem, we can’t come up with a decent layout. And we’re not consistent about how to do it either; as of now, it is more or less about “what looks decent”, and then just add it. While I think conversations are important to the pages, I wanted to bring the issue up here and get some opinions. For different layout styles, try Shelden, this section, this one or this example on how to implement conversations into written text. I think we should at least discuss it – maybe someone can come up with a cool template we can use consistently - or maybe just a good idea for a layout? Let’s hear some thoughts! --Krusty 18:12, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

: I think the first and second examples are the way to go. Weebam-Na's page, in my opinion, doesn't flow very well the way it is currently. The comments in between each line seem like overkill, and the wall-of-text prevented me from reading the whole conversation. Legoless 19:24, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
::It really depends on the length of the conversation, as it is pretty hard to implement into text if we’re talking more than a few sentences. I did try another approach here, and I think it works, at least partially. Kindda nice to see an image of the involved NPCs, along with the lines. --Krusty 13:56, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

:::There's another example at . In general I'd say that conversations should always be separated as in the first couple of examples. It makes it much clearer and less confusing. rpeh  14:47, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

::::I agree with Legoless - the first two are the best layout, although I prefer to indent one of the speakers for ease of reading. I'm also slightly tending towards having letters instead of the full names over and over again. --SerCenKing   09:59, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Lore Pages Layout

Recently, I've noticed that the Lore pages have an annoying variety of layouts; specifically, sometimes the "See Also" section before the "References" section, or vice versa; images are on different sides of the page across the namespace. All in all, a glorious bunch of inconsistencies. It seems to me that we should, once and for all, decide the format for Lore pages, just as we did with the Oblivion namespace. Personally, I think that it should be: Content, References, and then all other miscenllaneous sections (See Also, Notes, etc.); unfortunately, I myself am guilty of putting images on both sides at different times, and as such don't have a preference. Thanks, and hopefully we can get this settled here and now.--Kalis Agea  06:10, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

: I don't care which side images are on as long as it looks good. As for the order of contents, I think it should be: Content, Notes, References, See Also. While we're on this topic I'd also like to bring up game references in the lore section. Currently there is a lot of "Region X was featured in Oblivion" nonsense floating around on the old pages. This is slowly being removed and reworded to sound historical, but sometimes this info can be of use. I propose that all "un-lore-like" information should go into the Notes section (as an example see  - compare the note to what is written above). --Legoless 14:18, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

:: The format seems fine to me; I had forgotten about Notes. As for the game references, I agree that they should only exist as a small note; they are not vital, but they should exist. After all, us in the Lore namespace have to understand that as of right now, the bulk of Anon and registered users visit the Gamespaces rather than the Lore. I have been thinking on how to make these Notes helpful for all the namespaces, and here is what I figure: when we finally manage to cleanup and expand the Lore namespace, and make it a proper namespace, the articles of the Gamespaces should, where needed (e.g. "For more info, visit the Lore page.") and vice versa. That way, the site feels interconnected. Sorry if that was worded weird, but I'm not feeling too great and really don't feel like rewording the paragraph.--Kalis Agea  13:47, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

::: So have we settled on "Content, Notes, References, See Also"?  I was just asking about this on another page. Minor Edits 17:46, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

:::: I missed this discussion somehow... my preference would be for Content, Notes, See Also, References. Notes can sometimes need references (See , which has all kinds of stuff going on) and that means refs have to come after notes. rpeh  17:54, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

:::::That seems the most logical arrangement to me, as well, though really I'm more concerned with having the layout set than getting a preference established. Minor Edits 18:17, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::There's also the question of where other sections would fit in, such as Maps. I'm trying to figure out where the Gallery section fits in right now on the Goldbrand page. Minor Edits 03:51, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

:::::: I've been putting the gallery for those artifact articles just below the text. I would have put them in the text itself if there was only one, but a gallery works fine if there are multiple images. There's no discussion on the matter, as I've pretty much been writing those articles solo, without any proofreaders. --Legoless 10:54, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Random page

I dont know if it's just me. But the random page link always leads to Daggerfall:The Story of Lyrisius.
It's not very random if it happens all the time. The same thing if I press alt-x

Ah wait now not it works wtf, maybe I was just a case of extreme randomness that took me to the same article 8 times in a row.

Very Bad Ads

On almost every page, the ad I see from google is promoting a mormon youtube channel. I wouldnt normally care, except they moderate all comments to stop any dissent from getting through. If they want to advertise their beliefs but don't want to have to explain themselves, I see no reason why we should allow that here.

This is one of those sites that i actually disable ad block for, because I so enjoy it and think its rather great...I dont want to go back to blocking ads, but I do not wish to see religious propaganda as ads. Tell them to shape up and allow discourse if they want the advertising space. Find someone else if they refuse.

Its the principal of thing. its For Great Justice. I wouldnt be happy if i saw ALMSIVI ads condemning the Dissident Priests and demanding only agreement as discourse either, and I'm not happy now. 74.128.56.194 18:05, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

: I don't see the problem here. Don't click the ad if their beliefs offend you. --Legoless 18:27, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

:: Agreed; they have a right to practice what they want and censor who they want. I just ignore the ads.--Kalis Agea  19:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

::: We're having an issue like that in the forums. For some reason, we get adverts in the forums for a probably-a-virus-game named "Caesary" that advertises a "roman orgy".--I a m g o o f b a l l--Need Something? Drop by on my Talk Page. What I've done for this site. 01:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

::::We have had several sexually suggestive ads here on the Wiki (the Caesary ones). The orgy ad isn't the first one. Though some users seem to have a big problem with these ads I could care less; I just ignore them.--Kalis Agea  01:18, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Double click redirect crap.

Every time I go to a page, I have to click back 3 times to get past stupid redirects. Not sure if this is an accident, on purpose, or if I have a virus or something, but its kind of annoying.--Catmaniac66 04:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

: I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give a proper example? rpeh  09:09, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

OPRP Redesign Project - please read

Just wanted to advertise a bit for this proposal. It includes a huge rewrite and redesign of a redesign project - and in case nobody else responds, I'll simply go ahead and do it my way. --Krusty 09:51, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
: Just wanted to advertise for my post here. It is my take on a brand new project page for the OPRP and it is of great importance that you respond if you have any objections or ideas - otherwise, well... see my post above. --Krusty 17:46, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Images - final call

Okay, it's not really the final call, but since we have less than five months before Skyrim appears, it's the last chance to start any kind of serious project. All our Oblivion NPC images are now square and of a quality of at least "meh", but can we get that quality up? Our standard has risen over time and whilst I might have thought this was acceptable in Sep 2010, I'd like to see something more like this today. Check out this category and you'll easily find the problem pics. Let's try to get a 100% "Yay!" rating for our OB NPC images before 11/11/11. rpeh  23:38, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
: Pretty tired right now, but is it possible to add cleanup-tags to all images under at least 800x800 - by use of a certain bot? The smaller 600x600 images I always mark for cleanup, simply because we're getting "better". Anyway, just a suggestion. I'll take a thorough look in the morning. --Krusty 23:43, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
:: Easy enough. Is 800 the agreed minimum? rpeh  23:46, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
::: Dwarfmp sets the size of square images to 899x899, and both you and SerC is around 1000, so I think 800 is perfect. Let's see what happens! :) --Krusty 23:49, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
:::: Okay,  has a list of Oblivion NPC images less than 800 pixels wide. Feel free to cross them off as new versions are uploaded. Obviously, we're not just looking for "wide" here, we want "good" first, "good" second, "good" third, and wide comes in a distant fourth. rpeh  00:53, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Alchemy Calculator Maintenance

I noticed there was a comment on the   talk page that the person maintaining it has left. Is anyone currently making bug fixes or adding new features? If not and the source code is available I would be willing to make changes. Trebor 01:56, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
:Nephele left a little while back. I'm not sure if we have a policy about this, but I personally would like to know: do you have any experience with this sort of thing? Unless you do, then I'm hesitant to say "that's fine" right now, seeing as you are only just starting here.--Kalis Agea  02:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
::We can access the source code if necessary but Kalis Agea is right - I don't think anybody's going to be happy at the thought of new users changing it. If there are specific changes you would like to make, please suggest them on the calculator's talk page. rpeh  08:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

HELP

What is the Codex is the game booklet, is it a real book, an in game book, or what?
Tammuz 08:29, 8 July 2011 (UTC) TAMMUZ OUT!

: What codex? If you mean the Codex Scientia, then it's a book that came with the Deluxe edition of Arena. rpeh  17:07, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

What is the Right Way to create maps?

There are a couple of minor maps &ndash; Moril Manor and the Forgotten Sewer &ndash; missing from Tribunal (which I am just starting to play for the first time).  I'd be happy to add them&hellip; if I knew what the accepted procedure was.  Screenshot of the map?  Extracted from TES?  Any postprocessing?  DryHumour 20:35, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

: The image standard for maps are here. In-game shots are too small, so they pretty much have to be taken using the construction set and processed there. rpeh  17:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Unmarked Places near Frostcrag Spire

Just for the record – and in case someone objects; I’m thinking about merging two entries on the Oblivion:Unmarked Places page, specifically the “Flagless Flagpole” entry and the “Mountain View Camp” entry. Both are clearly related to Frostcrag Spire (a nifty detail, actually, and backed up by this book) and the Camp is not even a camp, just a bunch of camp-related objects with no bedroll. Suggestions for a name are more than welcome! --Krusty 13:54, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

: Since it's so closely linked to the DLC, I think "Frostcrag Camp" would be a good name for the location. --Legoless 14:01, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
:: Another possibility is ''Taris Rendil's Camp''. Kindda catchy! --Krusty 00:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Forum Account Activation Link MIA

This was the best place I could find to post this, so feel free to move it if you know a better place. When I tried to register for the forums a few months ago, I never got the activation link. I've hit the resend option many a time, and I've tried another account with another email. I don't think its going to my spam folder, cause I can look in that and theres nothing. What can I do to activate my account? Is the email actually going to spam and auto-deleting, in which case what is the email address so that I can manually let it through? Stouf761 16:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
: I received an e-mail yesterday from a user with the exact same problem as you - the forum may be having some problems with the automated confirmation e-mail. I'll try and get in touch with an administrator from the "inside". --Krusty 00:57, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Idea: Pages for Levels

Hi! I'm totally new here, but I read this wiki a lot as an oblivion guide, and I think that something it might be missing is a page(s) just for different levels. I constantly find myself debating whether or not I should level up, and besides my own character's stats, there are many non-unique factors to consider. First there are all of the different monsters that will start appearing at that level, then all of the items and quest rewards that change based on your level, and also quests that require a certain level. All of this information is already here, I just think it would be helpful if there was a central page for each level so you can know what you're getting yourself into.

I just posted here to see if anybody else thought this was a good idea, and if it's worth doing.

:Don't forget to sign your posts with  .  Here is a page simalar to what you discribed, maybe your ideas could improve it.  --Zar Pof 05:19, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Help

If any of you edit Wikipedia, please can you help me out here? I'm trying to get a silly redirect deleted but the usual bureaucratic inertia at Wikipedia is not helping. If any of you feel like voting to get a redirect for "Skyrim Nord" deleted, please help. Sorry to bother you but I don't know of any other way of getting this done. Absconded Northerner 15:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
:I wouldn't suggest wasting time with those guys. Once they've made up their minds they almost never back down even when clearly in the wrong. Arthmoor 05:36, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
::Campaigning for votes on Wikipedia is against policy... ''   ( ) '' 00:51, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Disturbing ads

"One click away from a roman Orgy!" Really? This site (one of the best wikis around and better than any "official" game guide) is supported by a decieving advertisment to a builder game? Isn't that word a bit inappropiate on this wiki!?&quot;There is always hope&quot;-Aragorn 17:54, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
:Yes, the ads on the site have been a nuisance to several users. You should either ignore them (I don't even notice them myself), or you should contact Daveh (as rpeh once stated I believe) about these ads and see if this can be changed ~ Dwarfmp 19:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

::I don't mean to be rude, but this has been brought up at least once or twice already here on the portal. Anyone who has an issue like this in the future either post it in this section or one of the other sections about the ads. We don't need 5 sections about the same thing. All I can say is either ignore them, use AdBlock, or contact Daveh like Dwarfmp said.--Kalis Agea  19:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Printed copy?

Just a question, is it possible to order a printed hardcover version of this wiki? Or obviously, a volume of books? It would be the coolest thing going, even though it would be inconvenient and cumbersome, I would just love it. 180.216.114.193 12:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

:well you could print it yourself but other than that, no chance at all especially because it changes reguarley (Eddie the head 12:37, 22 July 2011 (UTC))

Crusader's Relics lost

Hi,

I put all the relics and some other stuff in a chest of the Cheydinhal Mages Guild. I have two chests: one with plenty items one other for inventory storage, as I sold some stuff from the first one. I've put the Crusader's relics and some other items in the second chest. Result? Reseted. Last restoration checkpoint is 17 July. So I would like to spawn at least the Crusader's relics...

player.AddItem xx000aaa

I have the GOTY, so xx should be 02, and I have the aaa things on paper. Does not work. Any idea?

Or take the items from 17 July to my current one? How? Tried Wrye Bash but it does not start at all...

Mateos, 22 July, 04:17 PM GMT+1.

: Are you sure it's "AAA"? I can't see that code on the items page. --Legoless 14:27, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

:: By AAA I meant the differents codes, E97, E96/95/94/93, F4B, E92 and F4A for the complete light relics for 21+ levels (I'm 24 currently so I think I can spawn the max?). Sorry for the mistake :/ Mateos, 22 July, 16:52 GMT+1.

::: The xx is probably not 02. I've just had to reinstall everything and with just the standard plugins installed, my KotN gets the number 07. Try all the numbers from 03 to 09 and one of them will work. The numbers on the page are definitely right. rpeh  07:20, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

:::: Sorry for late answer: Tried 03 to 09 without success. The one for the Vampire stuff works. I will maybe start a new character with better main abilities, as I'm stuck with one at 30 and all others over 60. Thanks for your help and your availability, very appreciated :) Mateos, 26/07/2011, 09:53 AM GMT+1.

::::: Keep going - you'll get there. 0A is next, then up to 0F, 10 and so on. You'll find it eventually. rpeh  07:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

:::::: Hi again, tried from 0A to 9F without success. I think an inventory editor could help, I just saw one not free, any log can do it for free? I looked at all my chests, just found the 2 weapons... Mateos, 07/08/2011, 06:45 PM GMT+1.

Help!
I lost Martin, in the weynon priory quest. I told him to wait but I forget where. He does not have a quest marker over him just one at the temple. Is there anything I can do?  

:: Try fast travelling to Cloud Ruler Temple, he should appear there. Kitkat1749 03:43, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Roxys inn page

could some one make a page about roxys inn north of the imperial city thank you  
:We already have info for the inn here.--Kalis Agea  06:00, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

:: Additionally, the complete article can be found here. --Legoless 10:41, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Alchemy Problem not covered

Everytime I try to make a potion it says "please enter your name" and wont let me make potions no matter how I try to alter things. I dont want to start a new game altho Im not that far into the game so if I need to I guess I will. Anyone know why this is happening? 

:have you tried saving, quiting and turning off your console then turning it back on? (From Fear to Eternity- Eddie The Head 08:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC))

Bugs of the Thieves Guild

Okay, people are asking about the same bugs over and over on all pages – and let’s face it, the Thieves Guild quest line is the most bugged of them all, with the highest amount of possibilities to break the quest line entirely. I propose that we, in an attempt to prevent people from making the fatal mistakes, make a list of the “fatal” bugs in the quest line – and put it in its own section on the Thieves Guild page. I have collected a list in my Sandbox, but that was the most obvious bugs. 

I’d like to know what people think about the idea of listing the game-breakers in their own section? I’d also like to know if I missed any bugs – and if the explanations are satisfying? Lastly, I’d like to get a few suggestions to where the section header should go on the TG page – and what to call it. Thanks in advance! --Krusty 13:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

: I dunno if it'll help. We already have a bugs section on the TG page, including two of the ones on your list. We could add the rest and move them all to the top of the list, but most people are going to hit the bug before hitting the page with the fix no matter what we do. Sorry to be negative here, but no matter what we do we're always going to get people asking questions on talk pages when the answers are just a couple of clicks away. rpeh  13:56, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

:: Yeah, I know - but somehow it feels better to say: "Look at this list called "Serious Bugs" (or whatever we call it), instead of "look at Bug #3 on the quest page". It was merely to get them all under one roof, in hopes that at least 10% of gamers will see it - then we have done everything we could. I still remember the first time I played the Vampire Cure quest. Spent 8 real-life hours collecting everything (I even followed a walkthrough on something called the UESP) - then found the Bloodgrass bug in the game - and after searching for a bit, a LONG way down the list on the UESP walkthrough. What I'm saying is that some bugs are worth bumping, I guess. --Krusty 14:53, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

::: Well it won't do any harm, I suppose. rpeh  15:08, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: Sandbox updated with links to separate bug sections on the pages, all quest pages tweaked to have the serious bug on top - UOP fixes added to new section, and sad news for console players as well. If anybody has any suggestions or objections, lets hear them now. --Krusty 21:54, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

::::: I think it would make a good addition. I'm not sure about the PS3/360 "no fixes" section at the bottom - a modified version of the usual UOP template would probably do the trick. --Legoless 23:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::: Agreed on the PS3/Xbox-thing - it looks a bit clumsy, but I thought it would be useful to point out that PC players with the UOP installed will not even notice any problems - while console players are doomed. If anybody can think of a neater layout (or a "modified" version of the UOP), that would be great. I also realized, that the new bug list wipes out 97% of the bugs on the Thieves Guild page - and the list probably solves many reasons why the messengers never shows up. If only I could figure out the Independent Thievery Bug... --Krusty 23:56, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Lore: Province Map Images for Cities

Due to a recent minor disagreement between Elliot and Legoless, I believe that a standard for images (specifically Province Maps) on Lore articles should be established. The last time we tried to get a solid Lore Pages Layout (see discussion of the same name above) we overlooked this, thinking that there were no problems. Me and Legoless started adding these images as a standard back in May and June (I think that's correct, anyway). At that time, Elliot was not present on the wiki. Then in July, Elliot asked me about the additions. We ended up coming to a consensus: leaving it alone. Now it seems we have an issue again (however small for the moment). However I agree that it adds colour to the articles, I also think we need a written standard (and discussion). So please, please, please, please, please, please, PLEASE (*takes a deep breath*) would everyone who has an opinion write it below. Because after this, there really should be no more disputes on the issue.--Kalis Agea  02:57, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

:I say we keep the images, Lore needs the extra bit of color. --AKB   03:01, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

::AKB, you ignore the problem at hand. I am not against adding images to the lore articles; I am against adding frivolous images just because we "want to add color". 
::The addition of the image needs to related to the article title. Having a page about Gnaar Mok with a picture of Morrowind makes sense, but it only makes sense if Gnaar Mok was actually labeled on the image. Just slapping a Morrowind image is pointless (also, adding them to every city is unprofessional and superfluous). Now, if you really want an image, try adding :File:MW-banner-Gnaar Mok.png to the page to make it unique. Hell, you can even add an in-game image to the article, I don't care. I just find it annoying that being unoriginal with the articles has slowly become the standard. ''   ( ) '' 04:45, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

:::I'm aware of your original complaint, it's true that the Morrowind Map used doesn't have Gnaar Mok on it. In fact, having just spent the last hour or so looking through the lore articles I have to say I agree with you. While any image is better than no image it would be much nicer to have images more closely related to the subject at hand (Such as the one you linked to). It doesn't make since to include maps on articles when the map barely covers the subject. While we're here however I'd like to bring up a point you mentioned in your post, in-game images. They're generally not wanted in Lore (With an exception being Flora and Bestiary). While this isn't an actual policy as far as I'm aware I have had an edit reverted under this reasoning in the past. The best solution I see for this issue would be to allow in-game images, allowing a larger pool of potential images for Lore Articles, making it easier for Lore Editors to improve Lore Articles in the process. If someone is aware of a policy or a discussion as to why in-game images are looked down upon on certain lore articles please link me to it, but without a standing written policy I think it would be best to start allowing in-game images in all of Lore. --AKB   05:26, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

::::I'm going to agree with elements of both positions.

::::I don't agree that, in Lore, any image is better than no image. In game pages, I'd much rather see a bad image than a NeedsImage tag or a blank space, but I think the reverse is true in Lore.

::::There's an importance scale for images. Nothing official - this is off the top of my head - but I think it's a fairly good list:
::::# Image is critical because conveying the same information in text is difficult or impossible.
::::# Image reinforces a point made in the text and is a valuable addition.
::::# Image is illustrative of a central point made in the text but doesn't add any information.
::::# Image is illustrative of a minor point made in the text and doesn't add any information.
::::# Image is related to the text.
::::# Image is purely illustrative.
::::# Image is totally unrelated to the text.
::::In Lore pages, the first two are tricky to find, since we're talking about points not directly related to a game version. With a page like Daggerfall, the map falls into category 3, because the city is marked on the map and the map reinforces the location info given in the article. With the Gnaar Mok page that sparked this discussion, the map probably makes category 5 or even 6 because the town isn't on the map and there's no indication of where it might be.

::::I think we need to watch out for images in categories 5, 6 and 7. There will always be exceptions, such as the rank icons on guild pages, which definitely add colour to the page, but I think the recent surge of great pictures has led us to expect an image of equal quality on every page, and we're never going to get that.

::::That'll do for now. I'd like to hear what other people think. rpeh  05:54, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::I agree. ''L'image pour l'image'' is no way to have it. Also, AKB, we used game images on many lore articles (e.g. Lore:The Shivering Isles), so it wouldn't be against precedence. ''   ( ) '' 13:53, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::: I can't really add anything to the discussion which hasn't already been said. I stand by having province images on place pages, simply as an illustrative "category", but if others disagree I won't push it any further. I just worry that it will become nonuniform if adding a map is down to the editor's judgement. --Legoless 14:25, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::::It's really not that deep. If the city is marked on the map, then it has some relation to the article; otherwise, it is just filler. ''   ( ) '' 14:27, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::::To Elliot, see this edit summary to see what I was referring to. While it may be that the tolerance to game specific images has changed due to recent events in Lore, I'd like to point out that this wasn't always the case. I'm assuming that this was originally an unwritten policy, which is seemingly not enforced as of now, but I just want a bit of clarification here. If this has changed than you were right from the start, there were plenty of more relevant images available, but I'd like that last bit of lingering confusion explained. --AKB   17:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::::::Okay, no need to move the goalposts or anything. We've obviously come to a conclusion, so I will remove the images unless they are related to the maps provided. ''   ( ) '' 17:15, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Independent Thievery Quest Page

Okay, to make my bugs section mentioned here more visible, I realized that the entire Thieves Guild page needed a cleanup. First of all, there’s no real reason in the world why Independent Thievery doesn’t have its own page. The information covering that quest clogs up the TG page, so I decided to split them up. While the TG page still has all the usual information (it will be gone when I launch the new page), please take a look at my attempt at a Independent Thievery quest page in THIS SANDBOX. 

In the Sandbox, I have taken all the quest-related material from the TG page and attempted to create an easier-to-understand overview of the Independent Thievery page. This will not only make the TG page a much easier read, it will also allow players to actually understand what is going on with Independent Thievery, due to the new Journal Entry table. In the end, the TG page will lose the entire Fences section and most of the Player Tips section, resulting in an easier read, and ultimately, a better page.  

I’d like some suggestions, though. On the IRC, we have discussed this countless times – but what is needed on the Independent Thievery page, for it to be as effective and helpful as possible? Please take a look at the new Player Tips section in the Sandbox (where I deleted the most hopeless suggestions), and think about what is required. Personally, I always empty out the weapons and armor stores in the Market District, but that’s just me. Maybe there are better techniques out there? Also, I’d like a general critique on the Sandbox work so far – what is good, what is bad – and what could be better. Thanks in advance! --Krusty 08:10, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
:I think everything looks good in your sandbox, but I worry about mentioning the unofficial fences then retracting it and saying they are useless for the quest. Perhaps we should not mention them there and just mention them in a note that says "While they buy stolen goods, items sold to Jak Silver and Raven Biter to not count toward..." etc. They're not even in the fence faction. ''   ( ) '' 14:31, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
:: Agreed. They are not even "fences", they are just NPCs who happens to buy stolen goods. I'll find a solution; a note is probably the best idea, and then some sort of elaboration on the NPC pages. --Krusty 14:56, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
::: Okay, made an attempt - looks a bit messy with mr. Khafiz underneath the table but that's the best I could think of. Just tweak the page (and the new note if needed) - otherwise, I think the page is good to go. We can always add more tips later on. --Krusty 22:24, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: Found a few pages worth considering, namely Oblivion:Burglary and Oblivion:Crime. The first one deserves a link of some sort - but where? --Krusty 22:36, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
::::: Okay, I added the Thieves Guild main page to my another Sandbox and basically tweaked it the way it will look if this goes live. Try and compare the Sandboxes, just to see if anything should be switched around. I’m not going to launch this right away, so feel more than free to come up with all the suggestions you may have. It is, after all, the main page for an entire quest line. --Krusty 23:51, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::: On the new Thieves Guild article, I'm not sure I like the term "mod" under the "Other Fences" section. Perhaps split Khafiz and Raven Biter into two separate bulletpoints. --Legoless 00:04, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::::Agreed. But I am not sure I like it now... maybe it's just the word contents. Everything else looks fine. ''   ( ) '' 02:21, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

  Okay, I'm on the verge of launcing, but then I read through this section. Now, I have made WIP pages for Amusei and Methredhel, I have written NPC pages, quest pages and checked stuff in the Thieves Guild on and off for over two years - but I have NEVER experienced any problems with "messengers" not showing up. I'm more or less sure it is covered by the new Serious Bugs-section, meaning that if you avoid the bugs mentioned there, you will have absolutely no problems with the messengers. The two other bugs are outdated anyway and if there are still people playing the original OB without patches and fixes, its their problem.. Unless someone disagrees, I'll remove the entire section. Any opinions? --Krusty 19:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
:My guess is that they just didn't wait long enough. I never really experienced this problem when I played through the TG a few times. ''   ( ) '' 20:29, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
:: Okay, both the new Independent Thievery page and the revamped Thieves Guild page will be up in a few minutes. I'll encourage everybody to read through it, just to see if it is up to standard. Also, if anybody stumbles upon some broken Independent Thievery links, please correct them. Thanks to you all for replies and tweaks! --Krusty 18:21, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Collector's Editions

The front page news sections state that the official collector's edition comes with a 200-page "sketchbook" as opposed to an "Official Art Book", which is what is stated on the official site. Seems like whoever it was that wrote the news post has a bias against the CE. Also with the EB Games CE, the post states that simply by "sacrificing the plastic dragon figurine", the price is halved. This is not the case as you also do not get the Official Art Book, or the Making Of DVD, seems like another biased opinion. While we're listing EB Games' CE why wouldn't we show all sorts of special packs that are being offered, such as JB Hifi's "game and guide" pack, shown here, as I am sure there are some overseas retailers offering their own special deal. Just a thought there. Also I don't know if this is even in the right place, I just followed the links and started editing. 124.178.145.114 07:14, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

: I've corrected the sketchbook and dragon statue comments. As for the other deals which various retailers are offering, I just don't see them as being very unique or colelctable. Call it a bias, but if we reported on every possible combo you could buy Skyrim with, the news section would be full of rubbish. The article on the EB edition was also meant as an update to the previous article about the collector's edition announcement, as the normal CE is sold out now (barring a few PS3 copies still available). --Legoless 12:53, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

::I wasn't saying the report on the EB Games deal was biased, I was just saying that the wording is a bit leaning toward "it's all crap that nobody wants", even in the EB Games deal it apparently comes with what is simply a "blank A5 notebook", it doesn't really, because I can go into any supermarket or stationery store and get a blank A5 notebook, but chances are I won't be able to get that one. I do understand though now the reasoning behind the post for the EB Games one, as we've apparently sold out of normal CE's here in Australia, thanks for clearing that up, disregard the comment about other special packages. 124.178.145.114 15:21, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Morrowind Overhaul

I feel like this deserves a mention within the morrowind section. PlyrSilver5 01:03, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
:I cleaned up your post for you, and I just had a look at it and although I haven't played with it installed or anything, it looks amazing nonetheless. I'm not sure if we include links to things like this on articles, somebody else with more experience will take a look at it eventually though. 124.178.145.114 15:07, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
::It's just a mod collection, so no we won't be doing anything with it. It does look nice though. rpeh  15:39, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Cattle

Just wondering if someone could start a page about Cattle (in Morrowind) since there is no page there and the website won't let me start one because I don't have an account. Thanks! 
:I don't even remember seeing any cattle in Morrowind, perhaps you could be more specific, such as the specific name the 'cattle' appears as in-game, as i'm sure the site would already have a page about it. Or I could be wrong altogether and there is cattle in there somewhere. 124.178.145.114 08:24, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

::he's referring to the vampires human "cattle" im not to sure if there is a page for it but it seems to me that there should be a page as there is one for every else similar (From Fear to Eternity- Eddie The Head 08:28, 23 August 2011 (UTC))

:::In Morrowind we generally don't create pages for non-relevant NPCs. There's a brief mention of cattle here, and... there's not much else to say about them. If somebody wants to expand the information on that page, feel free. rpeh  08:32, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

spam bot or whatever

he says this in his edit summary ---> Pharmacy Rocks! I mean it! And then he posts on the talk page: Really great article with very interesting information. You might want to follow up to this topic!?! 2012. 
whats this supposed to mean? (From Fear to Eternity- Eddie The Head 13:00, 23 August 2011 (UTC))

: We get a lot of these on the blog - the main comment is nice, but there's a link or something in the name or somewhere else. It's obviously not working properly on the wiki, because the links aren't appearing, but it's the same MO. rpeh  13:12, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

signature

does anyone know why i cant make this:  " "  my signature? it says: 	"Invalid raw signature. Check HTML tags." i have no idea what that means. (From Fear to Eternity- Eddie The Head 11:39, 25 August 2011 (UTC))

: You need to put the name of the colour in quote:   "   , but that won't work anyway. Try   "      - unless you only want one part to be blue. rpeh  11:44, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

::Thanks, im guessing deep blue wasnt an available colour because it just showed up as red, so i went for this, Thanks again! ("    11:52, 25 August 2011 (UTC))

:::im just wondering if im allowed to have this image in my signature? -->     25x25px| 13:58, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

::::Images: no. We (roughly) follow the Wikipedia Signature Policy, which is clear that images are not allowed. It lists several reasons why not - it's not just us being difficult. rpeh  14:09, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Xaselm Page Layout

Howdy peoples! As can be seen here, me and Krusty couldn't decide how to tackle the issue with Xaselm's experiments. At the moment, they are listed at the bottom of the page, with links to it from the main walkthrough sections. The alternative would be a separate page (Xaselm/Experiments, so the trail works nicely). My main objection to the current layout is that it makes the page excessively long, while Krusty's criticism to my proposal is that people may find it harder to go on a separate page rather than just easily scroll down, thus wasting the excellent work that has been put into that section. As we couldn't decide ourselves, we'll wait to see what you guys have to say :) --SerCenKing   11:33, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

: The page looks great, so well done on that. I think I'd go for the current version, with the experiments on the page. Having them at the end means that, even though the page is on the long side, if people don't want to read them they don't have to. Things tucked away on subpages tend to disappear from the normal flow of things so I'd definitely prefer to keep it all together if possible. rpeh  12:39, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

:: Just to pop in and maybe bump this discussion a bit; obviously I agree with rpeh about keeping the current layout – with the rather “hidden” location at the bottom of the page, it shouldn’t really interfere with the place stuff, nor should it make the page overlong (if that makes any sense). I can’t think of any other place where this amount of info is justified, so it will NOT become a future standard /and/or habit.   --Krusty 23:55, 6 September 2011 (UTC)