AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box

AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box
2015-09-01  1:04 ` Milly Bitcoin
                   ` (2 more replies)
  
From: hurricanewarn1 @ 2015-09-01  0:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bitcoin-dev

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I have been struggling to get port 8333 open all year, I gave up and was using blockchain for months despite a strong desire to stay on Bitcoin Core, but now the issue has reached critical mass since I'm using the python Bitcoin server module. I have literally spent my entire day trying to open 8333, I thoroughly made sure it was open on the router and computer and it's still closed. Strangely enough I got it open for 30 seconds once today but something closed it immediately.

After hours of phone calls and messaging AT&T finally told me the truth of what was going on, and only because I noticed it myself and demanded an answer. The internet is being routed through a DVR/cable box, and they confirmed the DVR also has a firewall. To make this even more absurd they refused to turn the firewall off because it is their equipment. So effectively they can firewall any port they want even if the customer asks them not to, in the unlikely event the customer figures it out.

Perhaps this is the driving force behind the inexplicable and massive decline in Bitcoin nodes. Bitcoin is being censored by the ISPs themselves, and they won't even tell you that. I had to get in touch with headquarters and threaten to rip it out of the wall to get a proper answer. 

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 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-09-01  1:04 ` 
                   ` 
  
From: hurricanewarn1 @ 2015-09-01  0:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bitcoin-dev

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1266 bytes --]

I have been struggling to get port 8333 open all year, I gave up and was using blockchain for months despite a strong desire to stay on Bitcoin Core, but now the issue has reached critical mass since I'm using the python Bitcoin server module. I have literally spent my entire day trying to open 8333, I thoroughly made sure it was open on the router and computer and it's still closed. Strangely enough I got it open for 30 seconds once today but something closed it immediately.

After hours of phone calls and messaging AT&T finally told me the truth of what was going on, and only because I noticed it myself and demanded an answer. The internet is being routed through a DVR/cable box, and they confirmed the DVR also has a firewall. To make this even more absurd they refused to turn the firewall off because it is their equipment. So effectively they can firewall any port they want even if the customer asks them not to, in the unlikely event the customer figures it out.

Perhaps this is the driving force behind the inexplicable and massive decline in Bitcoin nodes. Bitcoin is being censored by the ISPs themselves, and they won't even tell you that. I had to get in touch with headquarters and threaten to rip it out of the wall to get a proper answer. 

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 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-09-01  0:26 [bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box hurricanewarn1
  2015-09-01  1:04 ` Milly Bitcoin

  2015-09-01  7:16 ` odinn
  
From: James Hilliard @ 2015-09-01  1:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: hurricanewarn1;  bitcoin-dev

You should tell AT&T that you want the DVR/cable box put into what is
usually referred to as "bridge mode" or sometimes "true bridge mode"
depending on your ISP and then use your own router, look under
"Bridged Mode" at the bottom of this page for AT&T
http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=23697 . You want your own router to
have the external IP, if it does not it is not configured correctly.
In general one should never use a router provided by their ISP for
anything other than modem functionality since it is typically only the
ISP that can change the firmware on it, it also makes troubleshooting
problems like this more difficult.

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Zach G via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> I have been struggling to get port 8333 open all year, I gave up and was
> using blockchain for months despite a strong desire to stay on Bitcoin Core,
> but now the issue has reached critical mass since I'm using the python
> Bitcoin server module. I have literally spent my entire day trying to open
> 8333, I thoroughly made sure it was open on the router and computer and it's
> still closed. Strangely enough I got it open for 30 seconds once today but
> something closed it immediately.
>
> After hours of phone calls and messaging AT&T finally told me the truth of
> what was going on, and only because I noticed it myself and demanded an
> answer. The internet is being routed through a DVR/cable box, and they
> confirmed the DVR also has a firewall. To make this even more absurd they
> refused to turn the firewall off because it is their equipment. So
> effectively they can firewall any port they want even if the customer asks
> them not to, in the unlikely event the customer figures it out.
>
> Perhaps this is the driving force behind the inexplicable and massive
> decline in Bitcoin nodes. Bitcoin is being censored by the ISPs themselves,
> and they won't even tell you that. I had to get in touch with headquarters
> and threaten to rip it out of the wall to get a proper answer.
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>


 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-09-01  0:26 [bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box hurricanewarn1
  2015-09-01  1:04 ` Milly Bitcoin
  2015-09-01  1:16 ` James Hilliard

  2015-09-01 14:44   ` Dan Bryant
  2015-09-02  7:20   ` [bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes via utilizing private subnets hurricanewarn1
  
From: odinn @ 2015-09-01  7:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: hurricanewarn1, bitcoin-dev

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Another note on this subject to add to the stuff people have already
mentioned...

If you have the AT&T landline but don't use AT&T's standard internet /
tv (what they call Uverse) offering - that is, if you prefer to use
some local internet provider - you are probably better off (in terms
of avoiding not only this sort of blockage/censorship but as well,
potentially getting a better privacy policy that isn't going to be
like AT&T's long-term data retention).  You can check directly with
the various local small ISPs to see what their policies are
specifically on ports and whatnot.

Ideally your ISP should let you:

port forward to SOMEPORTNUMBER for tcp and udp

(above may or may not be helpful for some if you are using
decentralized markets)

have port 8333 open

(above is for bitcoin of course)

Supposing you have FTTN because you are paying a local ISP for
internet service, and that local ISP has contracted with AT&T to be
able to provide service in an area where old-style DSL has been phased
out, thus your local ISP is essentially providing you AT&T FTTN.
(FTTN is Fiber to the Node, FTTN-BP is FTTN Bonded Pair).  Even if a
local ISP has its own privacy policy posted which is different from
AT&T, everything is subject to AT&T data retention because the FTTN.
So get yourself a VPN (or set up your own) for your connection. Tor
will run through the VPN.

General observations - TWC stores your IP and other stuffs for 6
months or longer.  Same for Comcast.  Verizon retains your stuffs for
18 month minimum, probably longer though. Qwest/Century, 1 year.
Cox, 6 months.  AT&T retains for longer than a year.  This is just
what they are telling you, the reality is it's probably longer due to
stuff like this:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/odni-and-doj-release-last-section-215-collec
tion-order









Zach G via bitcoin-dev:
> I have been struggling to get port 8333 open all year, I gave up
> and was using blockchain for months despite a strong desire to stay
> on Bitcoin Core, but now the issue has reached critical mass since
> I'm using the python Bitcoin server module. I have literally spent
> my entire day trying to open 8333, I thoroughly made sure it was
> open on the router and computer and it's still closed. Strangely
> enough I got it open for 30 seconds once today but something closed
> it immediately.
> 
> After hours of phone calls and messaging AT&T finally told me the
> truth of what was going on, and only because I noticed it myself
> and demanded an answer. The internet is being routed through a
> DVR/cable box, and they confirmed the DVR also has a firewall. To
> make this even more absurd they refused to turn the firewall off
> because it is their equipment. So effectively they can firewall any
> port they want even if the customer asks them not to, in the
> unlikely event the customer figures it out.
> 
> Perhaps this is the driving force behind the inexplicable and
> massive decline in Bitcoin nodes. Bitcoin is being censored by the
> ISPs themselves, and they won't even tell you that. I had to get in
> touch with headquarters and threaten to rip it out of the wall to
> get a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org 
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-09-01  7:16 ` odinn

  2015-09-02  7:20   ` [bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes via utilizing private subnets hurricanewarn1
  
From: Dan Bryant @ 2015-09-01 14:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: odinn;  bitcoin-dev

Keep in mind... Legal or Not, many ISPs (Comcast for example) prohibit
offering up network services (which a full node would supply) from
your residence.

I checked AT&T's TOS and they have a carve-out on equipment that is scary

http://www.att.com/legal/terms.internetAttTermsOfService.html

>Regardless of whether the equipment used to access your Service (modem, gateway, etc.) is owned by you or AT&T, AT&T reserves the right to manage such equipment for the duration of your Service, and retains exclusive rights to data generated by the equipment. Neither you nor a third party may change, interfere with, or block access to equipment data or settings.

AT&T seams to imply they implicitly have Admin rights to all
"equipment" that connects to their network.  Clearly an overreach that
needs to be clarified, but there it is.

As for Comcast, they simply forbid network "services" that serve
anyone off-premise.

http://www.xfinity.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/HighSpeedInternetAUP.html

> [MAY NOT] use or run dedicated, stand-alone equipment or servers from the Premises that provide network
content or any other services to anyone outside of your Premises local
area network (“Premises
LAN”), also commonly referred to as public services or servers.
Examples of prohibited
equipment and servers include, but are not limited to, email, web
hosting, file sharing, and proxy
services and servers

Technically, P2P is prohibited in the Comcast TOS, or at least by my
reading.  I realize that Comcast with deny this tooth and nail, but if
they ever want to exercise the prohibition, it is clearly spelled out
in their TOS

My recommendation is to file a complaint with the FCC to bring up your
issue as well as any overreach they spell out in the AUP or TOS.

As for me... I simply subscribed to a VPN.  That gives me both privacy
(to a degree) and flexibility to open or close whatever ports I want.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 2:16 AM, odinn via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Another note on this subject to add to the stuff people have already
> mentioned...
>
> If you have the AT&T landline but don't use AT&T's standard internet /
> tv (what they call Uverse) offering - that is, if you prefer to use
> some local internet provider - you are probably better off (in terms
> of avoiding not only this sort of blockage/censorship but as well,
> potentially getting a better privacy policy that isn't going to be
> like AT&T's long-term data retention).  You can check directly with
> the various local small ISPs to see what their policies are
> specifically on ports and whatnot.
>
> Ideally your ISP should let you:
>
> port forward to SOMEPORTNUMBER for tcp and udp
>
> (above may or may not be helpful for some if you are using
> decentralized markets)
>
> have port 8333 open
>
> (above is for bitcoin of course)
>
> Supposing you have FTTN because you are paying a local ISP for
> internet service, and that local ISP has contracted with AT&T to be
> able to provide service in an area where old-style DSL has been phased
> out, thus your local ISP is essentially providing you AT&T FTTN.
> (FTTN is Fiber to the Node, FTTN-BP is FTTN Bonded Pair).  Even if a
> local ISP has its own privacy policy posted which is different from
> AT&T, everything is subject to AT&T data retention because the FTTN.
> So get yourself a VPN (or set up your own) for your connection. Tor
> will run through the VPN.
>
> General observations - TWC stores your IP and other stuffs for 6
> months or longer.  Same for Comcast.  Verizon retains your stuffs for
> 18 month minimum, probably longer though. Qwest/Century, 1 year.
> Cox, 6 months.  AT&T retains for longer than a year.  This is just
> what they are telling you, the reality is it's probably longer due to
> stuff like this:
> https://www.lawfareblog.com/odni-and-doj-release-last-section-215-collec
> tion-order
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Zach G via bitcoin-dev:
>> I have been struggling to get port 8333 open all year, I gave up
>> and was using blockchain for months despite a strong desire to stay
>> on Bitcoin Core, but now the issue has reached critical mass since
>> I'm using the python Bitcoin server module. I have literally spent
>> my entire day trying to open 8333, I thoroughly made sure it was
>> open on the router and computer and it's still closed. Strangely
>> enough I got it open for 30 seconds once today but something closed
>> it immediately.
>>
>> After hours of phone calls and messaging AT&T finally told me the
>> truth of what was going on, and only because I noticed it myself
>> and demanded an answer. The internet is being routed through a
>> DVR/cable box, and they confirmed the DVR also has a firewall. To
>> make this even more absurd they refused to turn the firewall off
>> because it is their equipment. So effectively they can firewall any
>> port they want even if the customer asks them not to, in the
>> unlikely event the customer figures it out.
>>
>> Perhaps this is the driving force behind the inexplicable and
>> massive decline in Bitcoin nodes. Bitcoin is being censored by the
>> ISPs themselves, and they won't even tell you that. I had to get in
>> touch with headquarters and threaten to rip it out of the wall to
>> get a proper answer.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
>> list bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>
> - --
> http://abis.io ~
> "a protocol concept to enable decentralization
> and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
> https://keybase.io/odinn
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-09-01  7:16 ` odinn
  2015-09-01 14:44   ` Dan Bryant

  
From: hurricanewarn1 @ 2015-09-02  7:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bitcoin-dev

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 I was about to buy a VPS for Bitcoin, but I really do need Bitcoin Core for business reasons so I didn't give up. I once again thoroughly went through my computer and made sure there was nothing blocking 8333, a couple useful tools are CurrPorts and TCPView. I went through the router to make sure there was no block of port 8333. I researched everything thoroughly and was sure these were the right settings, but Bitcoin was still getting throttled every second and stuck in sys_sent, and python kept saying the target was rejecting the connection.

I finally stumbled upon subnet settings, and saw that I had a private subnet, one of the few IPs that are private on earth ( https://www.arin.net/knowledge/address_filters.html ). Uverse put all their customers on a private subnet by default. This made my computer not only hidden but unroutable for any computer on the Bitcoin network. That alone is enough to totally stop Bitcoin connections on any port, but they made it even crazier by generating a dynamic IP that changes all the time, so public IP was meaningless for my computer. 

I switched over to a public subnet, and right there was a checkbox to allow incoming connections. My static IP showed for a minute then became dynamic/hidden again without me even touching anything. The final roadblock was AT&T charges $15-30/month for a public static IP, which is obviously insane and actually one could argue that violates their own terms of service. So the router was still ignoring my public IP settings simply because I wasn't paying for a public IP, and intentionally changing the settings back. I asked for a free public IP and there was no response for awhile.

I found this article on cryptocoinnews while working out: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/isps-intentionally-blocking-bitcoin/ It's based on the first email I sent, and was displayed prominently on their front page. I posted a tweet publicly about it which referenced AT&T ( https://twitter.com/turtlehurricane/status/638930065980551168 ) and believe it or not I had a static public IP and port 8333 was open about 1 minute later. I don't know if it was a coincidence cause I already messaged them to please do that an hour before, or if that article and tweet spurred them to action. The timing was so ridiculous I think it's the latter. Without twitter I probably wouldn't have succeeded, the technicians on twitter actually answered all my questions 24/7 unlike phone technicians which were clueless and trying to sell me a subscription for connection services help. And shout out to cryptocoinnews for making this public. 

So to clarify, it appears AT&T has not blocked port 8333 itself, but rather effectively blocked all ports via the private subnet, which makes the computer hidden and unroutable for incoming peers. Although this severely limits functionality and cripples the ability to run a full node and many other programs it is understandable, since it just about 100% prevents hackers from getting in, since they can't even see your computer. What isn't understandable is that AT&T technicians did not inform me about this until I changed the settings myself, despite the fact it is a very obvious cause of ports being blocked. It's probably just ignorance since AT&T has so many complex network settings it's hard to keep track of, although I have a suspicion that someone in their command chain is withholding information in an attempt to make them buy a $15/month connection service, and once they buy that another $15-30/month is needed to get the static IP.

As far as I know there is no easy to find info on the internet about private subnets crippling the ability to use Bitcoin. I believe this needs to be explicitly said in instructions for running a full node, maybe it wasn't a problem in 2009 but now it is a major issue. On default settings Bitcoin is 100% blocked, and most people do not have the time or motivation to fix this. I talked to at least 10 AT&T technicians and worked on it 2-3 days straight, did not receive the right answer until I found it myself, although they certainly gave me some useful clues about how the network works.

I am very happy that AT&T fixed it, since other ISPs like Comcast appeared even worse. I openly talked with them about Bitcoin and they showed no prejudice, might've actually made them more willing to help me cause otherwise they would think I'm a hacker.

tl;dr The good news is anyone with AT&T can be a full node by getting a public static IP, the bad news is almost no one will figure this out unless we as a community make it well known. I guarantee node numbers will improve if this information is spread to everyone. Database size and computing expenditures is simply not the reason people don't run full nodes, it's because their ISP has made it just about impossible without shelling out nearly 100% more money per month. If you don't pay the fee AT&T would never tell you about the private subnet, at least based on my experience.


-----Original Message-----
From: odinn <odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup•net>
To: hurricanewarn1 <hurricanewarn1@aol•com>; bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 3:16 am
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Another note on this subject
to add to the stuff people have already
mentioned...

If you have the AT&T
landline but don't use AT&T's standard internet /
tv (what they call Uverse)
offering - that is, if you prefer to use
some local internet provider - you are
probably better off (in terms
of avoiding not only this sort of
blockage/censorship but as well,
potentially getting a better privacy policy
that isn't going to be
like AT&T's long-term data retention).  You can check
directly with
the various local small ISPs to see what their policies
are
specifically on ports and whatnot.

Ideally your ISP should let
you:

port forward to SOMEPORTNUMBER for tcp and udp

(above may or may not
be helpful for some if you are using
decentralized markets)

have port 8333
open

(above is for bitcoin of course)

Supposing you have FTTN because you
are paying a local ISP for
internet service, and that local ISP has contracted
with AT&T to be
able to provide service in an area where old-style DSL has been
phased
out, thus your local ISP is essentially providing you AT&T FTTN.
(FTTN
is Fiber to the Node, FTTN-BP is FTTN Bonded Pair).  Even if a
local ISP has
its own privacy policy posted which is different from
AT&T, everything is
subject to AT&T data retention because the FTTN.
So get yourself a VPN (or set
up your own) for your connection. Tor
will run through the VPN.

General
observations - TWC stores your IP and other stuffs for 6
months or longer. 
Same for Comcast.  Verizon retains your stuffs for
18 month minimum, probably
longer though. Qwest/Century, 1 year.
Cox, 6 months.  AT&T retains for longer
than a year.  This is just
what they are telling you, the reality is it's
probably longer due to
stuff like
this:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/odni-and-doj-release-last-section-215-collec
tion-order









Zach
G via bitcoin-dev:
> I have been struggling to get port 8333 open all year, I
gave up
> and was using blockchain for months despite a strong desire to
stay
> on Bitcoin Core, but now the issue has reached critical mass since
>
I'm using the python Bitcoin server module. I have literally spent
> my entire
day trying to open 8333, I thoroughly made sure it was
> open on the router and
computer and it's still closed. Strangely
> enough I got it open for 30 seconds
once today but something closed
> it immediately.
> 
> After hours of phone
calls and messaging AT&T finally told me the
> truth of what was going on, and
only because I noticed it myself
> and demanded an answer. The internet is
being routed through a
> DVR/cable box, and they confirmed the DVR also has a
firewall. To
> make this even more absurd they refused to turn the firewall
off
> because it is their equipment. So effectively they can firewall any
>
port they want even if the customer asks them not to, in the
> unlikely event
the customer figures it out.
> 
> Perhaps this is the driving force behind the
inexplicable and
> massive decline in Bitcoin nodes. Bitcoin is being censored
by the
> ISPs themselves, and they won't even tell you that. I had to get in
>
touch with headquarters and threaten to rip it out of the wall to
> get a
proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org 
>
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> 

- --

http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and
expansion of a giving economy, and a new social
good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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