AsicBoost

AsicBoost
2016-04-01  9:00 ` Peter Todd
  
From: Timo Hanke @ 2016-04-01  4:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bitcoin-dev

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Hi.

I'd like to announce a white paper that describes a very new and
significant algorithmic improvement to the Bitcoin mining process which has
never been discussed in public before. The white paper can be found here:

http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf

Regards,

Timo

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2016-04-01  4:41 [bitcoin-dev] AsicBoost Timo Hanke

  2016-04-04 23:01   ` Mustafa Al-Bassam
  
From: Peter Todd @ 2016-04-01  9:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Timo Hanke;  bitcoin-dev

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On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:41:40PM -0700, Timo Hanke via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I'd like to announce a white paper that describes a very new and
> significant algorithmic improvement to the Bitcoin mining process which has
> never been discussed in public before. The white paper can be found here:
> 
> http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf

What steps are you going to take to make sure that this improvement is
available to all ASIC designers/mfgs on a equal opportunity basis?

The fact that you've chosen to patent this improvement could be a
centralization concern depending on the licensing model used. For example, one
could imagine a licensing model that gave one manufacture exclusive rights.

-- 
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

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2016-04-01  9:00 ` Peter Todd

  2016-04-06 11:57     ` Marek Palatinus
  
From: Mustafa Al-Bassam @ 2016-04-04 23:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Todd, Timo Hanke;  bitcoin-dev

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Alternatively scenario: it will cause a sudden increase of Bitcoin mines
in countries where the algorithm is not patented, possibly causing a
geographical decentralization of miners from countries that already have
a lot of miners like China (if it is patented in China).

On 01/04/16 10:00, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:41:40PM -0700, Timo Hanke via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> I'd like to announce a white paper that describes a very new and
>> significant algorithmic improvement to the Bitcoin mining process which has
>> never been discussed in public before. The white paper can be found here:
>>
>> http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf
> What steps are you going to take to make sure that this improvement is
> available to all ASIC designers/mfgs on a equal opportunity basis?
>
> The fact that you've chosen to patent this improvement could be a
> centralization concern depending on the licensing model used. For example, one
> could imagine a licensing model that gave one manufacture exclusive rights.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


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2016-04-04 23:01   ` Mustafa Al-Bassam

  2016-04-06 12:09       ` Mustafa Al-Bassam
  2016-04-08 20:58       ` Timo Hanke
  
From: Marek Palatinus @ 2016-04-06 11:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mustafa Al-Bassam;  bitcoin-dev

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To my understanding it is purely software thing. It cannot be detected from
outside if miner uses this improvement or not. So patenting it is worthless.

slush

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Mustafa Al-Bassam via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Alternatively scenario: it will cause a sudden increase of Bitcoin mines
> in countries where the algorithm is not patented, possibly causing a
> geographical decentralization of miners from countries that already have a
> lot of miners like China (if it is patented in China).
>
> On 01/04/16 10:00, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:41:40PM -0700, Timo Hanke via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> I'd like to announce a white paper that describes a very new and
> significant algorithmic improvement to the Bitcoin mining process which has
> never been discussed in public before. The white paper can be found here:
> http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf
>
> What steps are you going to take to make sure that this improvement is
> available to all ASIC designers/mfgs on a equal opportunity basis?
>
> The fact that you've chosen to patent this improvement could be a
> centralization concern depending on the licensing model used. For example, one
> could imagine a licensing model that gave one manufacture exclusive rights.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing listbitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.orghttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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2016-04-06 11:57     ` Marek Palatinus

  2016-04-08 20:58       ` Timo Hanke
  
From: Mustafa Al-Bassam @ 2016-04-06 12:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marek Palatinus;  bitcoin-dev

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It will prevent companies from legally selling mining rigs with the
improvement, which stems access to the improvement in patented
countries. Or miners can export rigs with the improvement from companies
that sell it in non-patented countries.

It is not purely a software thing - it is intended to be used by
modifying hardware. From the paper: "The performance gain is achieved
through a high-­level optimization of the Bitcoin mining algorithm which
allows for drastic reduction in gate count on the mining chip. AsicBoost
is applicable to all types of mining hardware and chip designs."

Ultimately though, I think you're right in that Bitcoin's mining and
decentralized design combined with an international economy makes
patenting mining algorithms effectively pointless.

Mustafa

On 06/04/16 12:57, Marek Palatinus wrote:
> To my understanding it is purely software thing. It cannot be detected
> from outside if miner uses this improvement or not. So patenting it is
> worthless.
>
> slush
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Mustafa Al-Bassam via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
>     Alternatively scenario: it will cause a sudden increase of Bitcoin
>     mines in countries where the algorithm is not patented, possibly
>     causing a geographical decentralization of miners from countries
>     that already have a lot of miners like China (if it is patented in
>     China).
>
>     On 01/04/16 10:00, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>     On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:41:40PM -0700, Timo Hanke via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>>     Hi.
>>>
>>>     I'd like to announce a white paper that describes a very new and
>>>     significant algorithmic improvement to the Bitcoin mining process which has
>>>     never been discussed in public before. The white paper can be found here:
>>>
>>>     http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf
>>>     <http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/%7ETimo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf>
>>     What steps are you going to take to make sure that this improvement is
>>     available to all ASIC designers/mfgs on a equal opportunity basis?
>>
>>     The fact that you've chosen to patent this improvement could be a
>>     centralization concern depending on the licensing model used. For example, one
>>     could imagine a licensing model that gave one manufacture exclusive rights.
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>     bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>>     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
>>     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     bitcoin-dev mailing list
>     bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
>     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>


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2016-04-06 11:57     ` Marek Palatinus
  2016-04-06 12:09       ` Mustafa Al-Bassam

  
From: Timo Hanke @ 2016-04-08 20:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marek Palatinus;  bitcoin-dev

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Slush,

You can actually detect the use of this improvement by looking at the I/O
of the chip, the I/O of an on-board micro-controller or even at the system
I/O because all the communication including the mining pool protocol is
different.

Timo

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:57 AM, Marek Palatinus <marek@palatinus•cz> wrote:

> To my understanding it is purely software thing. It cannot be detected
> from outside if miner uses this improvement or not. So patenting it is
> worthless.
>
> slush
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Mustafa Al-Bassam via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Alternatively scenario: it will cause a sudden increase of Bitcoin mines
>> in countries where the algorithm is not patented, possibly causing a
>> geographical decentralization of miners from countries that already have a
>> lot of miners like China (if it is patented in China).
>>
>> On 01/04/16 10:00, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:41:40PM -0700, Timo Hanke via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> I'd like to announce a white paper that describes a very new and
>> significant algorithmic improvement to the Bitcoin mining process which has
>> never been discussed in public before. The white paper can be found here:
>> http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf
>>
>> What steps are you going to take to make sure that this improvement is
>> available to all ASIC designers/mfgs on a equal opportunity basis?
>>
>> The fact that you've chosen to patent this improvement could be a
>> centralization concern depending on the licensing model used. For example, one
>> could imagine a licensing model that gave one manufacture exclusive rights.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing listbitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.orghttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>

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