BIP - Symbol for satoshi

BIP - Symbol for satoshi
2019-03-06 23:35 ` Gregory Maxwell
  
From: Amine Chakak @ 2019-02-23 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bitcoin-dev

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 514 bytes --]

Hi,

I don't know if this is the right place to do so, but it says on the
website to first propose ideas for BIPS to the mailing list.

I would like to propose @bitficus idea for a satoshi symbol (monetary).
The idea has been floated around to switch to satoshi as a base unit.
The lightning network uses satoshis as a base unit.

Here is the proposal :
https://twitter.com/bitficus/status/1097979724515557377

Pleas let me know if it would be appropriate to write a BIP for it.

Thank you for your consideration.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 918 bytes --]

 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2019-02-23 22:10 [bitcoin-dev] BIP - Symbol for satoshi Amine Chakak

  2019-03-06 23:59   ` Amine Chakak
                     ` (2 more replies)
  
From: Gregory Maxwell @ 2019-03-06 23:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Amine Chakak, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 12:32 AM Amine Chakak via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> The idea has been floated around to switch to satoshi as a base unit.

If Satoshi wanted the currency units named after him, he would simply
have done it. I think this behaviour seems creepy and is harmful to
Bitcoin.

> The lightning network uses satoshis as a base unit.

It absolutely does not. Lightning uses units of 10 picobitcoin (1e-11
btc), which is significantly smaller.

> Pleas let me know if it would be appropriate to write a BIP for it.

Please don't.


 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2019-02-23 22:10 [bitcoin-dev] BIP - Symbol for satoshi Amine Chakak

  2019-03-06 23:59   ` 
                     ` 
  
From: Gregory Maxwell @ 2019-03-06 23:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Amine Chakak, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 12:32 AM Amine Chakak via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> The idea has been floated around to switch to satoshi as a base unit.

If Satoshi wanted the currency units named after him, he would simply
have done it. I think this behaviour seems creepy and is harmful to
Bitcoin.

> The lightning network uses satoshis as a base unit.

It absolutely does not. Lightning uses units of 10 picobitcoin (1e-11
btc), which is significantly smaller.

> Pleas let me know if it would be appropriate to write a BIP for it.

Please don't.


 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2019-03-06 23:35 ` Gregory Maxwell
  2019-03-06 23:59   ` Amine Chakak

  2019-03-07 18:10   ` Federico Tenga
  
From: Tamas Blummer @ 2019-03-07 10:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Gregory Maxwell, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion;  Amine Chakak

It is highly unikely that non-engineers will adopt scientific notation or mili/nano/pico prefixes for money. 

All common currencies either have no change or one that is 1/100 of the base unit. 
This is the convention that practically all existing finance software and non-Bitcoin related UI that deals with money assumes.

Ignoring evident cultural preference and all pre-existenting finance related software is blatant Bitcoin engineering blindness.

We already had a BIP for bits, which I support for above reasons. https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0176.mediawiki

Tamas Blummer

> On Mar 7, 2019, at 00:35, Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 12:32 AM Amine Chakak via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> The idea has been floated around to switch to satoshi as a base unit.
> 
> If Satoshi wanted the currency units named after him, he would simply
> have done it. I think this behaviour seems creepy and is harmful to
> Bitcoin.
> 
>> The lightning network uses satoshis as a base unit.
> 
> It absolutely does not. Lightning uses units of 10 picobitcoin (1e-11
> btc), which is significantly smaller.
> 
>> Pleas let me know if it would be appropriate to write a BIP for it.
> 
> Please don't.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev



 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2019-03-06 23:35 ` Gregory Maxwell
  2019-03-06 23:59   ` Amine Chakak
  2019-03-07 10:57   ` Tamas Blummer

  
From: Federico Tenga @ 2019-03-07 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Gregory Maxwell, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion;  Amine Chakak

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1015 bytes --]

On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 at 11:13, Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> If Satoshi wanted the currency units named after him, he would simply
> have done it. I think this behaviour seems creepy and is harmful to
> Bitcoin.
>

I don't believe the will of Satoshi is particularly relevant on this
matter. Having a term everybody can converge on to express small amounts is
very important to improve the user experience, and satoshis seem to have
more chances to achieve this than scientific notations.

My main concern with satoshis as a unit is that it may sound weird/funny to
native Japanese speakers. It could probably be useful to have the opinion
of some of them on this topic.

Regarding the BIP to formalise the symbol for satoshi, I think that maybe
is better to wait for something to emerge with more widespread usage (e.g.
already used by some wallets or service providers). The linked proposal
does not seem to have sufficient support to be proposed as a standard.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1425 bytes --]

 permalink raw reply	[|nested]