Increased blockspace enabled by SegWit limited to just witness data?

Increased blockspace enabled by SegWit limited to just witness data?
2018-02-18 16:57 ` Austin Maier
  2018-02-18 17:04 ` rhavar
  
From: CANNON @ 2018-02-18 16:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I have a question in reference to the increased blockspace enabled
by the segregated witness upgrade. Is this extra blockspace beyond
the legacy 1 MB limit limited to just witness data?


- -- 
Cannon
PGP Fingerprint: 2BB5 15CD 66E7 4E28 45DC 6494 A5A2 2879 3F06 E832 
Email: cannon@cannon-ciota•info

NOTICE: ALL EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE NOT SIGNED/ENCRYPTED WITH PGP SHOULD 
BE CONSIDERED POTENTIALLY FORGED, AND NOT PRIVATE.
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 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2018-02-18 16:26 [bitcoin-dev] Increased blockspace enabled by SegWit limited to just witness data? CANNON

  2018-02-18 17:04 ` rhavar
  
From: Austin Maier @ 2018-02-18 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: CANNON, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1682 bytes --]

Effectively yes. The discount on weight applies to the witness data.

On Feb 18, 2018 11:42 AM, "CANNON via bitcoin-dev" <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> I have a question in reference to the increased blockspace enabled
> by the segregated witness upgrade. Is this extra blockspace beyond
> the legacy 1 MB limit limited to just witness data?
>
>
> - --
> Cannon
> PGP Fingerprint: 2BB5 15CD 66E7 4E28 45DC 6494 A5A2 2879 3F06 E832
> Email: cannon@cannon-ciota•info
>
> NOTICE: ALL EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE NOT SIGNED/ENCRYPTED WITH PGP SHOULD
> BE CONSIDERED POTENTIALLY FORGED, AND NOT PRIVATE.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJaiajLAAoJEAYDai9lH2mwDbMQAKgJseZG9oOoP9WJlESFdAzm
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> I+W6ny7qXt+pegLF4cYL
> =YqEM
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2440 bytes --]

 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2018-02-18 16:26 [bitcoin-dev] Increased blockspace enabled by SegWit limited to just witness data? CANNON
  2018-02-18 16:57 ` Austin Maier

  2018-02-18 18:39   ` Eric Voskuil
  
From: rhavar @ 2018-02-18 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: CANNON;  Bitcoin Protocol Discussion

No, you are misunderstanding. The block size limit (1MB) has been replaced in favor of a block weight limit (4M weight). Bytes which must be sent to old clients are weighted at 4 units each which is what allows it to be a soft fork.

So as such, there's not two separate limits or anything. 

P.S. what's up with your signature lol


​-Ryan

​

-------- Original Message --------
 On February 18, 2018 11:26 AM, CANNON via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> I have a question in reference to the increased blockspace enabled
> by the segregated witness upgrade. Is this extra blockspace beyond
> the legacy 1 MB limit limited to just witness data?
>
>
>
>Cannon
> PGP Fingerprint: 2BB5 15CD 66E7 4E28 45DC 6494 A5A2 2879 3F06 E832
> Email: cannon@cannon-ciota•info
>
> NOTICE: ALL EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE NOT SIGNED/ENCRYPTED WITH PGP SHOULD
> BE CONSIDERED POTENTIALLY FORGED, AND NOT PRIVATE.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJaiajLAAoJEAYDai9lH2mwDbMQAKgJseZG9oOoP9WJlESFdAzm
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> I+W6ny7qXt+pegLF4cYL
> =YqEM
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>bitcoin-dev mailing list
>bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>



 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2018-02-18 17:04 ` rhavar

  2018-02-18 19:04     ` rhavar
  
From: Eric Voskuil @ 2018-02-18 18:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: rhavar, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion

As a soft fork, all preceding rules remain in effect. No rule has been “replaced”. Blocks must validate against pre-segwit rules or are invalid. Additional rules are applied that further restrict validity, and consider additional (witness) data in the context of the block.

e

> On Feb 18, 2018, at 09:04, Ryan Havar via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> 
> No, you are misunderstanding. The block size limit (1MB) has been replaced in favor of a block weight limit (4M weight). Bytes which must be sent to old clients are weighted at 4 units each which is what allows it to be a soft fork.
> 
> So as such, there's not two separate limits or anything. 
> 
> P.S. what's up with your signature lol
> 
> 
> ​-Ryan
> 
> ​
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
>> On February 18, 2018 11:26 AM, CANNON via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA512
>> 
>> I have a question in reference to the increased blockspace enabled
>> by the segregated witness upgrade. Is this extra blockspace beyond
>> the legacy 1 MB limit limited to just witness data?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cannon
>> PGP Fingerprint: 2BB5 15CD 66E7 4E28 45DC 6494 A5A2 2879 3F06 E832
>> Email: cannon@cannon-ciota•info
>> 
>> NOTICE: ALL EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE NOT SIGNED/ENCRYPTED WITH PGP SHOULD
>> BE CONSIDERED POTENTIALLY FORGED, AND NOT PRIVATE.
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> 
>> iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJaiajLAAoJEAYDai9lH2mwDbMQAKgJseZG9oOoP9WJlESFdAzm
>> jLM69KLF4RVWDQjMWCtyVayyolXMLavW6fL4GL7/ztLYSl9Pz+FDlH3Qgo1GLDx4
>> fRUkmb0ApLBSAjmdqM+kWjgq3s6/oZaIkNxGeyK5SYY4QhF80Z42PWLBPKjAc7vn
>> pe7Im13NwtyJiRuCmq4e1z6GmW86fFOKOsR4rlWcftHOFmH8Gz5d9KK9LbPqU6Ca
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>> SW2Bs3nDeiCr2QN7Su9TUaoSN/yKTBOw5jnql9cNOYuf4GAG0MXWinmYP8MWCiqh
>> bIrzvOnlZGapX/36Fpab67VDcFnXJJc8ofqYmn+oUoW/q7geQpu/V1oz+AR9nD/d
>> n8wFxvZdRlTbq2XDXySaontxNH0rd80fSG5SJtO5Js9hK/vNG+Xa7Zc+76gEtvlF
>> 5G1F6MOcsoXUDCnMteuNxaZx6TPML6RuWVmbR1wXOaX4qZ01p7AsjQlTIcrlVDsB
>> LVGW70wjfETBCffn1JQvFmIK7NzggIUuYfLF0IrfM4BrTa/01RnmfBOpWGiIvyIG
>> qZqKLYDbW7BDkc/HMtAonR/0t6bTUv/388USSnbMakO9bvih0xxIw4NWTyoSoef/
>> I+W6ny7qXt+pegLF4cYL
>> =YqEM
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> 
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2018-02-18 18:39   ` Eric Voskuil

  2018-02-18 19:14       ` Eric Voskuil
  
From: rhavar @ 2018-02-18 19:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Voskuil;  Bitcoin Protocol Discussion

> No rule has been “replaced”.

It really has been. The code is no longer checks the size of a block, but the weight of it. For all intents and purposes the block size limits has been replaced in favor of a block weight limit. It's just been designed such that the new rule is more restrictive than the one it replaces.

Now, I'm not doubting you can argue the semantics on the difference between "replacing with a more restrictive rule" and "leaving the existing rules, but adding a new one" -- but it's uninteresting and only serves to confuse novice's like CANNON into thinking that there are two rules/spaces/limits for transactions.



​-Ryan

​

-------- Original Message --------
 On February 18, 2018 1:39 PM, Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil•org> wrote:

>As a soft fork, all preceding rules remain in effect. No rule has been “replaced”. Blocks must validate against pre-segwit rules or are invalid. Additional rules are applied that further restrict validity, and consider additional (witness) data in the context of the block.
>
> e
>
>>On Feb 18, 2018, at 09:04, Ryan Havar via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org wrote:
>>No, you are misunderstanding. The block size limit (1MB) has been replaced in favor of a block weight limit (4M weight). Bytes which must be sent to old clients are weighted at 4 units each which is what allows it to be a soft fork.
>>So as such, there's not two separate limits or anything.
>>P.S. what's up with your signature lol
>>​-Ryan
>>​
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>On February 18, 2018 11:26 AM, CANNON via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org wrote:
>>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA512
>>>I have a question in reference to the increased blockspace enabled
>>> by the segregated witness upgrade. Is this extra blockspace beyond
>>> the legacy 1 MB limit limited to just witness data?
>>>Cannon
>>> PGP Fingerprint: 2BB5 15CD 66E7 4E28 45DC 6494 A5A2 2879 3F06 E832
>>> Email: cannon@cannon-ciota•info
>>>NOTICE: ALL EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE NOT SIGNED/ENCRYPTED WITH PGP SHOULD
>>> BE CONSIDERED POTENTIALLY FORGED, AND NOT PRIVATE.
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJaiajLAAoJEAYDai9lH2mwDbMQAKgJseZG9oOoP9WJlESFdAzm
>>> jLM69KLF4RVWDQjMWCtyVayyolXMLavW6fL4GL7/ztLYSl9Pz+FDlH3Qgo1GLDx4
>>> fRUkmb0ApLBSAjmdqM+kWjgq3s6/oZaIkNxGeyK5SYY4QhF80Z42PWLBPKjAc7vn
>>> pe7Im13NwtyJiRuCmq4e1z6GmW86fFOKOsR4rlWcftHOFmH8Gz5d9KK9LbPqU6Ca
>>> +rde8yb+A9uXEv3O9MqeLId7FYSJixgzFGJosidVkAVQI7YZ0TAfG4HSwKjtqDz7
>>> SW2Bs3nDeiCr2QN7Su9TUaoSN/yKTBOw5jnql9cNOYuf4GAG0MXWinmYP8MWCiqh
>>> bIrzvOnlZGapX/36Fpab67VDcFnXJJc8ofqYmn+oUoW/q7geQpu/V1oz+AR9nD/d
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>>> qZqKLYDbW7BDkc/HMtAonR/0t6bTUv/388USSnbMakO9bvih0xxIw4NWTyoSoef/
>>> I+W6ny7qXt+pegLF4cYL
>>> =YqEM
>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>>>https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>>https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>



 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2018-02-18 19:04     ` rhavar

  
From: Eric Voskuil @ 2018-02-18 19:14 UTC ( / )
  To: rhavar;  Bitcoin Protocol Discussion

If the new rule is more restrictive the original limit remains.

e

On Feb 18, 2018, at 11:04, rhavar@protonmail•com wrote:

>> No rule has been “replaced”.
> 
> It really has been. The code is no longer checks the size of a block, but the weight of it. For all intents and purposes the block size limits has been replaced in favor of a block weight limit. It's just been designed such that the new rule is more restrictive than the one it replaces.
> 
> Now, I'm not doubting you can argue the semantics on the difference between "replacing with a more restrictive rule" and "leaving the existing rules, but adding a new one" -- but it's uninteresting and only serves to confuse novice's like CANNON into thinking that there are two rules/spaces/limits for transactions.
> 
> 
> 
> ​-Ryan
> 
> ​
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
>> On February 18, 2018 1:39 PM, Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil•org> wrote:
>> 
>> As a soft fork, all preceding rules remain in effect. No rule has been “replaced”. Blocks must validate against pre-segwit rules or are invalid. Additional rules are applied that further restrict validity, and consider additional (witness) data in the context of the block.
>> 
>> e
>> 
>>> On Feb 18, 2018, at 09:04, Ryan Havar via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org wrote:
>>> No, you are misunderstanding. The block size limit (1MB) has been replaced in favor of a block weight limit (4M weight). Bytes which must be sent to old clients are weighted at 4 units each which is what allows it to be a soft fork.
>>> So as such, there's not two separate limits or anything.
>>> P.S. what's up with your signature lol
>>> ​-Ryan
>>> ​
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> On February 18, 2018 11:26 AM, CANNON via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org wrote:
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA512
>>>> I have a question in reference to the increased blockspace enabled
>>>> by the segregated witness upgrade. Is this extra blockspace beyond
>>>> the legacy 1 MB limit limited to just witness data?
>>>> Cannon
>>>> PGP Fingerprint: 2BB5 15CD 66E7 4E28 45DC 6494 A5A2 2879 3F06 E832
>>>> Email: cannon@cannon-ciota•info
>>>> NOTICE: ALL EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE NOT SIGNED/ENCRYPTED WITH PGP SHOULD
>>>> BE CONSIDERED POTENTIALLY FORGED, AND NOT PRIVATE.
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJaiajLAAoJEAYDai9lH2mwDbMQAKgJseZG9oOoP9WJlESFdAzm
>>>> jLM69KLF4RVWDQjMWCtyVayyolXMLavW6fL4GL7/ztLYSl9Pz+FDlH3Qgo1GLDx4
>>>> fRUkmb0ApLBSAjmdqM+kWjgq3s6/oZaIkNxGeyK5SYY4QhF80Z42PWLBPKjAc7vn
>>>> pe7Im13NwtyJiRuCmq4e1z6GmW86fFOKOsR4rlWcftHOFmH8Gz5d9KK9LbPqU6Ca
>>>> +rde8yb+A9uXEv3O9MqeLId7FYSJixgzFGJosidVkAVQI7YZ0TAfG4HSwKjtqDz7
>>>> SW2Bs3nDeiCr2QN7Su9TUaoSN/yKTBOw5jnql9cNOYuf4GAG0MXWinmYP8MWCiqh
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>>>> n8wFxvZdRlTbq2XDXySaontxNH0rd80fSG5SJtO5Js9hK/vNG+Xa7Zc+76gEtvlF
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>>>> qZqKLYDbW7BDkc/HMtAonR/0t6bTUv/388USSnbMakO9bvih0xxIw4NWTyoSoef/
>>>> I+W6ny7qXt+pegLF4cYL
>>>> =YqEM
>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>> 
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>> 
>> 
>