Liquid

Liquid
2015-10-13 14:27 ` Benjamin
  2015-10-13 19:37 ` Daniel Newton
  
From: Benjamin @ 2015-10-13 14:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: Bitcoin Dev

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Hello all,

I was very surprised to learn that Blockstream will implement Sidechains
for exchanges [1], [2] and has been working on this privately. Can somebody
explain this “announcement”? Just a few comments on this “proposal”.

“This new construction establishes a security profile inherently superior
to existing methods of rapid transfer and settlement, and is directly
applicable to other problems within existing financial institutions.”

First of all, what does Bitcoin have to do with existing financial
institutions? Secondly, what in do you mean by “rapid transfer” and
"settlement"? Bitcoin is anonymous, digital cash. There is no such thing as
settlement, there is only the transfer of digital cash and that's it
(settlement is a bad word for this kind of transfer of property). If you
make up new terms define them accurately and don't play the
crypto-buzzword-bingo game.

“This, in addition to increasing the security of funds normally subject to
explicit counterparty risk, fosters conditions that increase market
liquidity and reduce capital requirements for on-blockchain business
models.”

Again – what does Bitcoin have to do with “market liquidity” and “capital
requirements”?

“Blockstream's innovative solutions are definitely a game changer for the
Bitcoin industry.”

Does Blockstream have commercial products now?

"These initial launch partners include Bitfinex, BTCC, Kraken, Unocoin, and
Xapo, and discussions are underway with another dozen major institutional
traders and licensed exchanges. "

??? so many questions and no answers.

Regards,
Benjamin

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 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-10-13 14:25 [bitcoin-dev] Liquid Benjamin

  2015-10-13 14:57   ` Tier Nolan
  2015-10-13 19:37 ` Daniel Newton
  
From: Benjamin @ 2015-10-13 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: Bitcoin Dev

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p.s. the links

[1] https://blockstream.com/2015/10/12/introducing-liquid/
[2] www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.l.cordes@gmail•com>
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I was very surprised to learn that Blockstream will implement Sidechains
> for exchanges [1], [2] and has been working on this privately. Can somebody
> explain this “announcement”? Just a few comments on this “proposal”.
>
> “This new construction establishes a security profile inherently superior
> to existing methods of rapid transfer and settlement, and is directly
> applicable to other problems within existing financial institutions.”
>
> First of all, what does Bitcoin have to do with existing financial
> institutions? Secondly, what in do you mean by “rapid transfer” and
> "settlement"? Bitcoin is anonymous, digital cash. There is no such thing as
> settlement, there is only the transfer of digital cash and that's it
> (settlement is a bad word for this kind of transfer of property). If you
> make up new terms define them accurately and don't play the
> crypto-buzzword-bingo game.
>
> “This, in addition to increasing the security of funds normally subject to
> explicit counterparty risk, fosters conditions that increase market
> liquidity and reduce capital requirements for on-blockchain business
> models.”
>
> Again – what does Bitcoin have to do with “market liquidity” and “capital
> requirements”?
>
> “Blockstream's innovative solutions are definitely a game changer for the
> Bitcoin industry.”
>
> Does Blockstream have commercial products now?
>
> "These initial launch partners include Bitfinex, BTCC, Kraken, Unocoin,
> and Xapo, and discussions are underway with another dozen major
> institutional traders and licensed exchanges. "
>
> ??? so many questions and no answers.
>
> Regards,
> Benjamin
>

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 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-10-13 14:27 ` Benjamin

  
From: Tier Nolan @ 2015-10-13 14:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: Bitcoin Dev

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It is interesting someone trying the sidechain approach.

I guess having trusted third parties to manage the chain was not a short
term thing?  It looks like there is no POW for the Liquid sidechain.

This is an area where the bitcoin could benefit by adding a way to transfer
money to/from sidechain without requiring third parties.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Benjamin via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> p.s. the links
>
> [1] https://blockstream.com/2015/10/12/introducing-liquid/
> [2] www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.l.cordes@gmail•com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I was very surprised to learn that Blockstream will implement Sidechains
>> for exchanges [1], [2] and has been working on this privately. Can somebody
>> explain this “announcement”? Just a few comments on this “proposal”.
>>
>> “This new construction establishes a security profile inherently superior
>> to existing methods of rapid transfer and settlement, and is directly
>> applicable to other problems within existing financial institutions.”
>>
>> First of all, what does Bitcoin have to do with existing financial
>> institutions? Secondly, what in do you mean by “rapid transfer” and
>> "settlement"? Bitcoin is anonymous, digital cash. There is no such thing as
>> settlement, there is only the transfer of digital cash and that's it
>> (settlement is a bad word for this kind of transfer of property). If you
>> make up new terms define them accurately and don't play the
>> crypto-buzzword-bingo game.
>>
>> “This, in addition to increasing the security of funds normally subject
>> to explicit counterparty risk, fosters conditions that increase market
>> liquidity and reduce capital requirements for on-blockchain business
>> models.”
>>
>> Again – what does Bitcoin have to do with “market liquidity” and “capital
>> requirements”?
>>
>> “Blockstream's innovative solutions are definitely a game changer for the
>> Bitcoin industry.”
>>
>> Does Blockstream have commercial products now?
>>
>> "These initial launch partners include Bitfinex, BTCC, Kraken, Unocoin,
>> and Xapo, and discussions are underway with another dozen major
>> institutional traders and licensed exchanges. "
>>
>> ??? so many questions and no answers.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Benjamin
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-10-13 14:25 [bitcoin-dev] Liquid Benjamin
  2015-10-13 14:27 ` Benjamin

  2015-10-13 20:52   ` Adam Back
  
From: Daniel Newton @ 2015-10-13 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Benjamin;  Bitcoin Dev

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>Again – what does Bitcoin have to do with “market liquidity” and “capital
requirements”?

You seem to be conflating bitcoin with blockstream/liquid. Your question
does not make sense.

>Does Blockstream have commercial products now?

Yes. I am sure that was always their plan in order to stay a viable
commercial entity

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:25 AM, Benjamin via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I was very surprised to learn that Blockstream will implement Sidechains
> for exchanges [1], [2] and has been working on this privately. Can somebody
> explain this “announcement”? Just a few comments on this “proposal”.
>
> “This new construction establishes a security profile inherently superior
> to existing methods of rapid transfer and settlement, and is directly
> applicable to other problems within existing financial institutions.”
>
> First of all, what does Bitcoin have to do with existing financial
> institutions? Secondly, what in do you mean by “rapid transfer” and
> "settlement"? Bitcoin is anonymous, digital cash. There is no such thing as
> settlement, there is only the transfer of digital cash and that's it
> (settlement is a bad word for this kind of transfer of property). If you
> make up new terms define them accurately and don't play the
> crypto-buzzword-bingo game.
>
> “This, in addition to increasing the security of funds normally subject to
> explicit counterparty risk, fosters conditions that increase market
> liquidity and reduce capital requirements for on-blockchain business
> models.”
>
> Again – what does Bitcoin have to do with “market liquidity” and “capital
> requirements”?
>
> “Blockstream's innovative solutions are definitely a game changer for the
> Bitcoin industry.”
>
> Does Blockstream have commercial products now?
>
> "These initial launch partners include Bitfinex, BTCC, Kraken, Unocoin,
> and Xapo, and discussions are underway with another dozen major
> institutional traders and licensed exchanges. "
>
> ??? so many questions and no answers.
>
> Regards,
> Benjamin
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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 permalink raw reply	[|nested]
2015-10-13 19:37 ` Daniel Newton

  
From: Adam Back @ 2015-10-13 20:52 UTC ( / )
  To: Daniel Newton;  Bitcoin Dev

Benjamin you may want to read this reddit thread on liquid:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ok69l/blockstream_to_launch_first_sidechain_for_bitcoin/

and if you feel your questions are not answered, post them there?

(This list is about bitcoin development so it's not really on topic for here).

Adam

On 13 October 2015 at 21:37, Daniel Newton via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>Again – what does Bitcoin have to do with “market liquidity” and “capital
>> requirements”?
>
> You seem to be conflating bitcoin with blockstream/liquid. Your question
> does not make sense.
>
>>Does Blockstream have commercial products now?
>
> Yes. I am sure that was always their plan in order to stay a viable
> commercial entity
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:25 AM, Benjamin via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I was very surprised to learn that Blockstream will implement Sidechains
>> for exchanges [1], [2] and has been working on this privately. Can somebody
>> explain this “announcement”? Just a few comments on this “proposal”.
>>
>> “This new construction establishes a security profile inherently superior
>> to existing methods of rapid transfer and settlement, and is directly
>> applicable to other problems within existing financial institutions.”
>>
>> First of all, what does Bitcoin have to do with existing financial
>> institutions? Secondly, what in do you mean by “rapid transfer” and
>> "settlement"? Bitcoin is anonymous, digital cash. There is no such thing as
>> settlement, there is only the transfer of digital cash and that's it
>> (settlement is a bad word for this kind of transfer of property). If you
>> make up new terms define them accurately and don't play the
>> crypto-buzzword-bingo game.
>>
>> “This, in addition to increasing the security of funds normally subject to
>> explicit counterparty risk, fosters conditions that increase market
>> liquidity and reduce capital requirements for on-blockchain business
>> models.”
>>
>> Again – what does Bitcoin have to do with “market liquidity” and “capital
>> requirements”?
>>
>> “Blockstream's innovative solutions are definitely a game changer for the
>> Bitcoin industry.”
>>
>> Does Blockstream have commercial products now?
>>
>> "These initial launch partners include Bitfinex, BTCC, Kraken, Unocoin,
>> and Xapo, and discussions are underway with another dozen major
>> institutional traders and licensed exchanges. "
>>
>> ??? so many questions and no answers.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Benjamin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>