by robomartin | 2026-01-13 22:04:58+00:00
> You're missing the point: the line between hobbyist and prototype now doesn't exist - there is a continuum where devices are made in single digits, tens of units, and progressively scaled up. This isn't the 80s/90s where you make none or thousands. Even those Amazon made wall socket relay things are ESP based after all.

Yeah, no. Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about.

I've gone from self-funded garage startup to millions of dollars in annual sales twice in my life (> $40MM annual with my current business, targeting 10x that within five years). And, yes, I've also had several truly memorable failures (including going bankrupt).

What you are saying might only align with reality at a trivial business level. Even today. Making ten or a hundred gizmos for Etsy with no concern given to the requirements of real comercial/industrial products? Sure. Anything else, no, you are wrong.

> In fact the hobby market now has _tougher_ requirements (particularly for software support, which Wifi necessitates) than the commercial and industrial one, and would not tolerate the level of random hacks/erratum that are spat out by the major chip providers.

Once again, sorry, you might want to stop, this statement shows just how little you know. There's nothing in hobby-world that even remotely compares to the requirements of commercial and industrial products.

Simple example: Nobody producing hobby products worries about setting someone's house on fire or making a device that interferes with pacemakers.

Please go ask ChatGPT what it costs to obtain UL, FCC, TUV, CE and other certifications for a non-trivial electronic or electromechanical product. Depending on many factors, the number is going to be between $25K and well over $100K.

So, if you are doing it legally and with all safety and other certifications, your cost basis starts at around $25K JUST FOR THE CERTIFICATIONS. If you manufacture 100 units, that would be $250 per unit in regulatory costs. So, how do you sell a hobby gizmo for $10 or $25? Simple, you ignore all of that and just sell it. And if it burns down someone's home, interferes with pacemakers or had other negative repercussions you ignore it, go out of business or whatever.

The millions of Chinese products on Amazon in this category are "fire and forget" products. The manufacturers could not care less what happens or what harm they may cause. There are plenty of stories of cheap USB charge adapters that have caused fires, etc. Certifications obtained in China for these products are mostly fake and cannot be relied upon at all (I have seen some truly horrific things).

BTW, there's nothing wrong with not knowing. We don't know everything, nobody does. What is ill-advised is to behave as though we did know.

One way to look at it is that the hobby market is the domain of a range of people spanning a range from kids to adult tinkerers and enthusiasts. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I was a kid designing and building computers (from bare IC's) before I went to university. The commercial, industrial, medical and aerospace markets are the domain of professionals. There's a vast knowledge, capability, responsibility and requirements gap between those two worlds. One does not negate the other and it isn't sneering to say that hobby products rarely measure up to products designed for other markets.