by invalidname | 2025-05-17 18:44:41+00:00
> a) The jurisdiction was established way back in 2021, and

The ICC decided it has jurisdiction, since Israel isn't a member that is pretty problematic.

> b) The court doesn’t deal with evidence directly when issuing indictments, but rather reasonable grounds[2], or as the news of the warrants stated:

Sure. Again another reason why this is just insane. People accepted this when the court was dealing with a rouge dictator or warlord but it's an insane law to apply towards a western democracy. Imagine them issuing an arrest warrant for GW Bush or Tony Blair... Or Churchill for that matter.

I'm not comparing the a*hole Netanyahu to any of them. But the concept is the same. Israel is upheld to a standard that no other country on earth has ever been upheld to.

> the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare;

I agree this is awful. But that ignores the robbery and hoarding of food by Hamas. Israel lets in trucks with supplies which get robbed the moment they cross over. Hamas hoards supplies in the tunnels and lets the civilians starve as a tactic.

I agree that Israel should still let the trucks through despite that. However, blaming Israel alone essentially gives Hamas the incentive to keep stealing the supplies which they are doing.

Worse, Netanyahu points at that and blames the antisemites who blame Israel unjustly. So he's back at it again. That didn't help and made things worse.

> and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts.

That's just general nonsense. This is a war that was started by an inhuman genocidal attack by a body whose own goal is the destruction of Israel (not freedom). Hamas is still holding hostages as of now and was still firing missiles not too long ago (as it has been for the past ±20 years. Before that it was blowing up busses and restaurants.

> The alleged crimes are summarized in [2] (I’m not quoting them here because it is basically 2/3 of the whole article, so go read it your self if you care).

This is all in relation to the deprivation of food/electricity/gas and water. I generally agree this is awful.

But that's exactly what the extreme right and Hamas are trying to do and the ICC has made things worse.

> But I have to agree with the court there is reasonable grounds here.

Reasonable grounds doesn't justify an arrest warrant. The only thing that worked was pressure from Biden. This should never have gone to trial which has made things far worse for everyone who is moderate on both sides.

> Other courts (like the ICJ) and human rights organizations, like the Human Rights Watch[3][4] and Amnesty International[5][6] have provided plenty of evidence to support the claim of reasonable grounds.

Most of the "evidence" is based from Gaza and is in-effect tainted. These organizations are deeply biased e.g. the article was literally from Beirut.

I get what you're saying, but blaming Israel for war crimes when the other side is a terrorist nation that is still holding hostage civilians... That's pretty insane.

>> > This is a political problem, not a legal problem.

> I disagree. This is moral problem, and is fundamental to the rule of law.

That's exactly the mistake.

First off, which law?

Sharia law like they have in Gaza where a gay person is buried alive using a spoon by his brother (real story)... The ICC law doesn't apply. Hell, even the Palestinian authority who joined the ICC hasn't been in control of Gaza since 2005.

But most importantly, who enforces the law? Who returns the hostages? Who disarms Hamas?

It's super easy to sit in a western country and pass judgement. Hold people to a standard that you will never live to. Where is the justice for the people in the tunnels?

Hamas can stop this at any moment in time by releasing the hostages. They want this conflict to continue. Netanyahu wants it to continue as well. These people give it fuel instead of chocking out the conflict.

> But Israel’s crimes are so grave, and so obvious,

You were too far from the Iraq war to actually know what really went down there. Also, notice that America lost Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam etc. It isn't because they don't have the best weapons. They do. It's because they don't fight to win. Here's why America is losing wars: https://www.amazon.com/If-Takes-Thousand-Years-Jihadists/dp/...

Israel just can't afford to lose here. Despite what Hamas fantasizes about, Israelis won't go back to Europe. Most Israelis were born in Israel and over half were chased out of Muslim countries.

I 100% agree that Israel should find a way to take care of the Palestinian civilians. To its credit it tried to do just that by going around Hamas to one of the local powerful families. Hamas assassinated the head of the family as a warning to the other families.

> that if we let that slide because of some vague—and honestly suspiciously convenient—notion of politics, there is nothing stopping bad actors from creating a political crisis to start the next set of atrocities.

The ICC trial didn't work and to my recollection never worked in stopping bad actors. Only in punishing them after the fact. I agree that the current Israeli government is a bad actor, but so is Hamas and I would argue much worse. Unlike Israel, Hamas is willing to sacrifice its own people and children for its ideology. Its ideology is the destruction of Israel. When you're dealing with an enemy like that it's very hard to stay within the lines.

Wars are terrible and the only way to stop them is to bring people to the table. That can only be accomplished with politics. That notion of justice you have... I wish I was able to still believe there was such a thing in the world. It is a rare thing even within the boarders of countries and not on the international stage.