by tasn | 2025-04-17 12:41:55+00:00
Part 2:

> It seems very similar to Indian Reservations. They have a bunch of things like a state has, but they are ultimately in the total control of the USA. At least the USA allows them to choose whether to live in the main US or remain in their reservation.

Indians are American citizens with a US passport, Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. The US asserts ownership over the reservations (but does give them some additional freedoms), Israel does not. This is not nearly the same situation. Though anyway the Indians aren't trying to kill Americans and chat from the Atlantic to the Pacific. You keep on trying to make this false statement, but Palestine is not Israel.

> The Schrodinger's Palestinian state exists when it can exculpate Israel from its treatment of the Palestinians, but it doesn't exist when it might provide what Palestinians would consider defense against Israel and what Israel would consider a threat to their existence.

Same as Germany post WW1 and WW2. They get full autonomy except for arming themselves.

Palestinians don't need defense against Israel, because Israel has never attacked Palestine. It was always in self defense. This is not a hyperbole, you can go one by one all of the wars since 1948.

> But ultimately, the truth in the area is that Israel completely controls the Palestinians and cannot allow them political power of any kind for its ethnic democracy to exist because they are not the majority in the region. I believe the route to the problem begins with Israelis. When they realize that ethnic supremacy only lengthens the conflict, and that whatever feeling of security (as you noted it is a feeling rather than a statistic) they gain is not better than the wrong needing to be committed to maintain it. I think that is when they will be open to either a 1 or 2 state solution. Unfortunately they were more open to it in the past than now. But I think, that time will come. They are the only ones who can choose it though as they are the ones who control what happens in the region.

Again, Palestine is not Israel. In Israel Arabs have FULL equal rights and in fact they make ~8% of the Israeli Parliament. So this is a false statement.

This statements also robs Palestinians of agency and shifts the blame to Israel. It's kind of like blaming France for destabilizing Europe during WW1 because to stop the fighting all they need to do is cede control to Germany. The path forward for Palestinian is easy: (1) stop indoctrinating children that terrorism is good, and killing civilians is good, (2) stop paying suicide bomber/terrorist families for every Jew they kill, (3) accept peace and stop arming yourself, (4) acknowledge Israel's existence, (5) probably a few other things. The moment you prove yourself you can be a trusted neighbor people will trust you.

> I don't agree with that. And it is a shifting of your position from what you originally said. Originally your sole claim was that the nationality isn't "native" or "old" enough. When I said it doesn't matter (because it doesn't), the claim shifted to being about the nationality being fraudulent in order to kill Jews. It seems like you are just trying to discredit them for wanting a nation. It sounds almost exactly like anti-Semitism but applied to Palestinians instead of Jews. Again, this is why it's the least convincing argument. It doesn't matter how "legitimate" their claims to a nationality are. What matters is what's happening on the ground, and it is ultimately the ethnicity of the Palestinians (non-Jewish) which has resigned them to have less rights than Jews in the same land.

Not shifting, it's elaborating on what I meant. What I meant by "new" is what I shared afterwards, which is this is not some identity that's been going for generations, the identity is anti-Israel. Though it doesn't matter what I communicated, it matters what the truth is. It says it on the Palestine wikpedia page, that the efforts to start a Jewish state (Zionism) was a major part of the notion of Palestinian nationalism. There was no such concept before Israel was envisioned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#History

Additionally, it's not racist to repeat what people say. The Hamas charter literally says that their goal is to destroy Israel and kill every Jew around the world. Yes Hamas is a more recent leadership than 1948, but whether you like it or not that's the government that represents the Palestinian people.

> Palestinians are the ethnic majority in the region, not the minority. If they were the minority, the Israeli issue would be a lot easier. They could simply all be citizens of the Israeli state and any violence could be dealt with as an internal issue, like Kashmir in India, or Catalan separatism, etc. Israels need for Jews to hold the majority of power while being the minority in the region is the root of why this continues to be a conflict.

As I said above, I checked the numbers (Israel wikipedia page, and Palestine wikipedia page) and it's actually not true. And again, you keep on conflating Israel and Palestine. In Israel this is wildly untrue, and in the whole region it is just not true (but closer to true).