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Speaker A: Yeah, I think you all have touched it really well. I mean, the beautiful thing about that buyback and dividend thing is puts it into familiar ground. It makes it just like a stock, and it makes it like an early stage technology investment, which all these people are used to. And that just makes it very comfortable. There is a set of institutional investors who will never be comfortable with bitcoin because it doesnt have those characteristics. And this makes Ethereum very comfortable for them. Id also add that most of these people are 45, 50, 60 years old, and they experienced the rise of the Internet from something that was weird and quirky and no one used to, something that they use every day. And so this is a narrative that fits in their mind with historical patterns. And I think that's really valuable as well. Those analogies really work with this audience. |
Speaker B: Guys, this has been fantastic. And maybe I'll close this out with a final question. So we are maybe in the first inning of the institutional adoption, let's say of crypto, and maybe I'll put some milestones or benchmarks behind that. First inning is bitcoin ETF approved. Right. Second inning is Ethereum ETF approved, which of course is most famous for its tokenization and smart contract capabilities. What is the third inning of this thing? Larry Fink has talked about tokenization as one of the things. I don't know if this is implying real world assets on chain or what that is after the Ethereum ETF. What do you think is next on this roadmap of tradfi adoption of crypto? |
Speaker A: I want to hear Ryan go first, then ill add mine. |
Speaker D: Yeah its a good question. I mean certainly the real world asset tokenization narrative, I really see that resonate when Im talking to institutional investors because they can understand the concept of just wrapping some kind of structured product around something that already exists. So for them, you think about tokenized real world asset on chain, that's taking a on chain asset like bitcoin or ethereum and wrapping an ETF wrapper and bringing it onto the rails of traditional finance. And so that really resonates with them. So I think real world assets will be a big boost, not only because it brings efficiencies into a market that's inefficient and that's opaque and not very transparent, but because you're seeing these large asset managers like JP Morgan and like Franklin Templeton experiment with tokenizing real world assets. And I think that's what gives them that stamp of approval or that conviction that hey, this is real technology, it could really have a difference in the world. And if institutions like JP Morgan, if institutions like Franklin Templeton are really starting to invest resources into bringing assets on chain, then there must be value on chain that we can go after. And so I think real world assets will be huge. I mean we have the continued growth of stable coins. We've already seen stablecoin transaction volume in 2023 hit about 67% or 60% or so of visa's total payment volumes in 2023. So we're seeing this like crazy emergence of stable coins, which is another use case. We're seeing this emergence of revolt assets, which is now a billion or multibillion dollar market. I think just more and more of these use cases that pop up and have real traction in the world will just bring advisors into the concept of investing in assets that are on chain and investing in the underlying infrastructure. |
Speaker A: Good answer. Pitt touched on what I was going to say, which I think massive mainstreaming of stablecoins is inning number three. I think from two perspective, both from a payments perspective locally and then a US bank account in every pocket around the world perspective globally. And I think the massive mainstreaming of stablecoins is the last hook that we need before crypto and blockchain completely reinvents the financial ecosystem. So bitcoin ETF eth ETF stablecoins everywhere and then we'll get tokenization and real world assets. |
Speaker B: You want to call a timeline on that? Matt, are we a couple of years out or is this going to take longer than that? |
Speaker A: I think stablecoins are probably this cycle where they really start to go mainstream and tokenization is probably the final cycle. Which is the next one. That would be my guess. But I think stablecoins could ten x from here from an AUM perspective by the end of 2025. I really think the growth could be off the hook. |
Speaker C: Matt, you're at Das right now is the conference that you're at. Just really quickly give us the lay of the land. What's going on over there? What's the sentiment like? |
Speaker A: Yeah, huge bull market, early bull market vibes. Two things stand out to me. I mean one, its sold out, its oversubscribed to give you a feel for the bull market vibes. Its much more institutional than any crypto conference ive been to in the past and the quality of projects are exceptional. Theres still some discussion of the fun aspects of crypto, but there are serious people building real world projects. Im more bullish coming from this conference than I have been at any conference ive gone to for the past three or four years. Really suggests that the industry has made a big step forward PRESTON oh yeah. |
Speaker C: Well if thats an early stage bull market conference then at permissionless in six months in October, man, that mania is going to be pretty well crescendoed by then. So im looking forward to seeing you guys there. |
Speaker B: Yeah, 100% for the bankless nation as always. Well include a link in the show notes where you can get a discount on those permissionless tickets if you want to join us all. And got to end with this. Some spectacular news. I think for you there is still some time to front run the opportunity. The institutions are coming, but they're not all here. Got to end with this. Of course, some more sobriety injected in the podcast toward the end. Crypto is risky. You could lose what you put in. But we are headed west this is the frontier. It's not for everyone. But we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot. |
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